# Strava is for Dopers



## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Yeah, yeah, we all know the shirts about Strava made me dope and we all know of the doping scum that use Strava to justify and fuel their cheating. But I was under the impression that Strava cared a little or that convicted dopers weren't allowed to run free. Bad assumption.



co-founder and CEO Mark Gainey said:


> At Strava we strive to record accurate segment times and rely on our community to flag unsafe rides and mechanical cheating. We applaud those dedicated to fighting doping in sport. But we are not able to judge this very nuanced debate of who used PEDs, when and where they used them, and to fairly determine how that use improved times on one segment or another. Strava values sportsmanship and fair play, and we want members of our community to earn spots on the leaderboards through clean and safe competition.


No. Strava does NOT value sportsmanship and fair play...

So you have a convicted doper who not only has been caught red handed cheating and had wins taken from him and his career ended because it, you have a doper who's been convicted of selling PEDs to other scum as well.

And when this person is brought up to Strava, that is their response. Essentially their response is, "We strive to record accurate segment times. We will look into any mechanical doping or segments that are unsafe. We will not look into any PED usage and all convicted dopers are allowed to do whatever they want on Strava as long as it's on a safe course without mechanical help." 

Who is Thorfinn-Sassquatch? The mysterious case of a Los Angeles Strava legend | CyclingTips

Here's the link. Not that I want to promote this piece of **** any more but it's worth the read I guess.


So who cares right? We all know that Strava is fake and that those with lots of KOMs are all doping right? So why does it even matter?

Let's see... take lots of PEDs, check. Take lots of KOMs, check. Gain notoriety doing so, check. Launch clothing line based on notoriety, check. Profit, check. Sounds legit. Thanks Strava.


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## ghettocop (Apr 19, 2014)

Stupid thread man. How in the hell could Strava possibly keep up with dopers taking a segment? Who cares? I use Strava on every ride and sure don't get all fired up about this.


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## 3DKiwi (Dec 1, 2012)

ghettocop said:


> Stupid thread man. How in the hell could Strava possibly keep up with dopers taking a segment? Who cares? I use Strava on every ride and sure don't get all fired up about this.


I agree. Just go and ride your bike.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

I don't really know what Strava can do about this. People will cheat, whether it's e-bikes, PEDs, getting a tow, etc... there is no way they can possibly police everything.

They can't really ban one guy for testing positive unless they do it for everyone who cheats, which would be impossible.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

MMsRepBike said:


> So who cares right? We all know that Strava is fake and that those with lots of KOMs are all doping right? So why does it even matter?


When did it _ever_ matter?

On the other hand I think Strava should put a "known doper" icon to shame people that have tested positive. Tom Danielson can get the first one. Levi can get the second one.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Does anyone really think there's any legitimacy to Strava segments anymore?


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

deviousalex said:


> When did it _ever_ matter?
> 
> On the other hand I think Strava should put a "known doper" icon to shame people that have tested positive. Tom Danielson can get the first one. Levi can get the second one.


This is precisely my point.

They have a filter for Pro riders. Why?

If a doper is riding at a level most likely above a pro rider where is that filter?

Is the Pro filter so you don't feel so bad about losing to a pro? Should be the same with a doper. 

Yes, I do believe Strava should punish convicted cheaters. Of course they should.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

MMsRepBike said:


> This is precisely my point.
> 
> They have a filter for Pro riders. Why?
> 
> ...


I don't see the filter, just the badge. But hey, if you want to get super butt-hurt about someone on a Strava leaderboard maybe you need to re-align your life goals and find your chi. I found my chi when I stopped uploading rides to strava and deleted everything. I still have an account because their route creator and heat maps are useful but stop being so concerned with what other people do and ride your bike.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

MMsRepBike said:


> This is precisely my point.
> 
> They have a filter for Pro riders. Why?
> 
> ...


What pro filter?


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

tlg said:


> Does anyone really think there's any legitimacy to Strava segments anymore?


There never was any, at least not to the degree that strava-holics take it.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Okay filter is a bad word. Badge or Designation would be better. A little shield with the letters PED on it would be suitable. 

I don't get worked up about it, I'm no stravaholic or anything of the sort. Their virtual race tracks mean nothing to me. More of a PSA for those that might be taking it a little too seriously.


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## wgscott (Jul 14, 2013)

I find Strava is to biking what Facebook is to my social life. (I don't use either).


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

Same issue came up last year when Danielson was popped AGAIN and went out on a big ride soon after mopping up big KOMs. 

Reporting him did nothing. Eh.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

pedalbiker said:


> Same issue came up last year when Danielson was popped AGAIN and went out on a big ride soon after mopping up big KOMs.
> 
> Reporting him did nothing. Eh.


Did you really expect a cycling website to put itself in the middle of something like that? There is no positive outcome for them, they have to attract as many users as possible and banning Tom Danielson so he has a platform to claim he's the victim of a witch hunt isn't going to help them. Are you expecting them to serve their bans on Strava as well? They can't upload rides for the length of their ban? It's a bit ridiculous.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

wgscott said:


> I find Strava is to biking what Facebook is to my social life. (I don't use either).


Strava is like Garmin Connect....except Strava actually works most of the time.


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## Aadub (May 30, 2015)

And my boss inherited his millions. Boo hoo hoo!!


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I just found out I hold a Strava segment. I don't even remember doing it. In all honesty, I think I was just riding a nice tailwind up a hill.


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

deviousalex said:


> Did you really expect a cycling website to put itself in the middle of something like that? There is no positive outcome for them, they have to attract as many users as possible and banning Tom Danielson so he has a platform to claim he's the victim of a witch hunt isn't going to help them. Are you expecting them to serve their bans on Strava as well? They can't upload rides for the length of their ban? It's a bit ridiculous.


You flag a ride. That ride is up for review. Apparently being doped as **** is fine. 

That's the whole story. Not sure what the rest of your diatribe is going on about, nor do I really care.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

MMsRepBike said:


> Okay filter is a bad word. Badge or Designation would be better. A little shield with the letters PED on it would be suitable.


But that "badge" only shows for the KOM. There could also be a bunch of Pros under the KOM as well. So you're really not filtering or learning anything.
For instance, I know a Segment that's on a Pro race course. 7 of the top 10 spots are Pros. The other 3 probably are (or were) Pros too. The only way to know who are Pros is to look at each persons profile. There's 1400 people on the segment.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

pedalbiker said:


> You flag a ride. That ride is up for review. Apparently being doped as **** is fine.
> 
> That's the whole story. Not sure what the rest of your diatribe is going on about, nor do I really care.


So if a non-racer who is not under jurisdiction of USADA/USAC takes a lot of artificial testosterone prescribed by his doctor (not illegal) and puts his rides up on Strava should those be taken down as well? Where is the due process? Etc. See why Strava doesn't want to put themselves into the middle of it? Plus they have bigger things to worry about right now, i.e. the company valuation. Whether Tom Danielson is doping on Strava or not has little to do with that.


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

deviousalex said:


> So if a non-racer who is not under jurisdiction of USADA/USAC takes a lot of artificial testosterone prescribed by his doctor (not illegal) and puts his rides up on Strava should those be taken down as well? Where is the due process? Etc. See why Strava doesn't want to put themselves into the middle of it? Plus they have bigger things to worry about right now, i.e. the company valuation. Whether Tom Danielson is doping on Strava or not has little to do with that.


A non-racer who is not under jurisdiction of USADA/USAC is not going to be a sanctioned doper. 

Your entire argument has nothing to do with anything.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Thorfinn needs to get a life. Oh, wait. He got arrested by the Feds last week. He's got something more important to focus his energy on now.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

pedalbiker said:


> A non-racer who is not under jurisdiction of USADA/USAC is not going to be a sanctioned doper.
> 
> Your entire argument has nothing to do with anything.


It has everything to do with it. So a non-racer can dope up and mop up Strava KOMs but a racer can't? Since Strava is not affiliated with any racing body this is a double standard. Not to mention Danielson is no longer a racer, he has no contract.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Social media - let's all just have fun with it and not care too much.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

wgscott said:


> I find Strava is to biking what Facebook is to my social life. (I don't use either).


It's a good way to track your mileage without actually having to write anything down. :lol:

If I had to manually keep a log, I wouldn't bother. But hook up the Garmin to my computer and let it automatically sync? Hey, I can handle that.


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## ddave12000 (Aug 16, 2013)

deviousalex said:


> It has everything to do with it. So a non-racer can dope up and mop up Strava KOMs but a racer can't? Since Strava is not affiliated with any racing body this is a double standard. Not to mention Danielson is no longer a racer, he has no contract.


I don't understand how you could care this much about it. What is strava to do? Take your word for it that he was doped when he got the KOM? I'm not sure how they could ever have any chance of being successful in this endeavor. If I were in charge of Strava I think I would have the same response.


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## Jwiffle (Mar 18, 2005)

I don't see it as Strava's job to sanction pros who've been caught doping. As deviuoslex said, banning them from Strava is a slippery slope...

As a non-racer, I can legally dope in many ways. No one could arrest me, sanction me, ban me from life or riding my bike. And since I couldn't be caught for doing something illegal (since the doping would, in fact, be perfectly legal), who would know I took a kom while doped?

Mechanical cheating is probably difficult enough for Strava to police.

Not that I'd be happy to know that I only couldn't get the kom if I knew the leader doped (I wouldn't), I still don't think it's Strava's place to try to sanction dopers.


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## RaptorTC (Jul 20, 2012)

Who cares? If getting a KOM means so much that everyone needs to submit a urine sample to Strava before claiming a big KOM then some priorities need to be re-evaluated. Sure, going for a KOM is fun, but even without bringing doping in its never a level playing field as conditions on the road change every day. Are we going to ban/flag someone for enjoying a ripping tailwind? For riding in a big group? For using a TT bike? Wearing a skinsuit?

Its just a damn Strava segment. If you want to compare yourself with other people in a more controlled environment then pin on a number and race.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

deviousalex said:


> It has everything to do with it. So a non-racer can dope up and mop up Strava KOMs but a racer can't? Since Strava is not affiliated with any racing body this is a double standard. Not to mention Danielson is no longer a racer, he has no contract.


and since strava is not affiliated with UCI or WADA why should they care about their rules?


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

den bakker said:


> and since strava is not affiliated with UCI or WADA why should they care about their rules?


This is exactly what I'm saying.


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

I just upload my rides for the fun of it. Keep track of my miles and see if my friends are getting some rides in. The truth of it is somebody can post up a time that they did on a racing motorcycle and take the KOM and I do not care. Before bike computers I would just write my miles on the calendar and total time of the ride. That worked just about as well as the Garmin actually and you just needed a pencil. Actually it was quicker then uploading thinking about it. 

Anyway I do not care about dopers. It's their body and if they do not want to ride when they are my age they can always just sit on the couch and drool.


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

deviousalex said:


> It has everything to do with it. So a non-racer can dope up and mop up Strava KOMs but a racer can't? Since Strava is not affiliated with any racing body this is a double standard. Not to mention Danielson is no longer a racer, he has no contract.


Are there many non-racers doing this?

I'm genuinely curious, because in the four or five states where I've done some big koms, there aren't any dudes near the top that aren't or haven't been racers. 

I don't think this is actually that common of an occurrence.


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

RaptorTC said:


> Who cares? If getting a KOM means so much that everyone needs to submit a urine sample to Strava before claiming a big KOM then some priorities need to be re-evaluated. Sure, going for a KOM is fun, but even without bringing doping in its never a level playing field as conditions on the road change every day. Are we going to ban/flag someone for enjoying a ripping tailwind? For riding in a big group? For using a TT bike? Wearing a skinsuit?
> 
> Its just a damn Strava segment. If you want to compare yourself with other people in a more controlled environment then pin on a number and race.


Way to make a dumb argument even stupider. 

Because skinsuits and tailwinds are akin to epo. Good thinking there!

And as I said before, it already is racers.


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

Jwiffle said:


> I don't see it as Strava's job to sanction pros who've been caught doping. As deviuoslex said, banning them from Strava is a slippery slope...
> 
> As a non-racer, I can legally dope in many ways. No one could arrest me, sanction me, ban me from life or riding my bike. And since I couldn't be caught for doing something illegal (since the doping would, in fact, be perfectly legal), who would know I took a kom while doped?
> 
> ...


How is it a slipper slope? They're not sanctioning anyone. That's WADA's job. They'd just be saying, "hey, doper, you suck and we don't want your business." I'd definitely be impressed if a company had the cajones to do that. What's the point of the "pro badge" anyway? Reverse it. A doper's badge would be sweet if they still wanted to keep them around. 

Danielson literally walks around with a big "f off" to anyone and everyone. He did it parading his mistress around and he did it right after he was sanctioned. Why does strava want to support that in any manner? It's disgusting. 

In any case, as a nonracer, are you actually capable of taking legit KOMs? 

I wouldn't give a flip if some random weekend warrior got juiced up because the chances are very good that they STILL couldn't go fast enough to take some legit KOMs. 

I can, however, see mechanical cheating as being the end-all for most everything Strava-competition related. I don't see many ways around that one.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

*King of So Cal Strava KOMs - Doper*

Finally. 

The king of Southern California Strava KOM's - Thorfinn-Sassquatch, is exposed as a doper and seller of EPO.

Nick Brandt-Sorenson, winner of the 2011 Masters 30-34 national road championship who later accepted a two year ban for testing positive for Efoproxiral, has now admitted in a Los Angeles federal court to selling EPO..

Think all your local Strava KOMs are on the up-and-up?


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

What's a "Strava KOM", and why would anyone care?


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## Aadub (May 30, 2015)

Pirx said:


> What's a "Strava KOM"


Ya ok..


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

tvad said:


> Finally.
> 
> The king of Southern California Strava KOM's - Thorfinn-Sassquatch, is exposed as a doper and seller of EPO.
> 
> ...


good choice of forum for a doping post. 

but to answer. no.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

My cat's name is Strava. 

*MODERATOR'S QUESTION on the fate of this thread:* 

1) Leave it here

2) Move it to the Doping Forum

3) Delete it

4) Lock it​

Vote below. First option to get three votes wins.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Local Hero said:


> *MODERATOR'S QUESTION on the fate of this thread:*
> 
> 1) Leave it here
> 
> ...


Delete it.

There is already another thread with a similar theme in the Doping Forum.

I wasn't aware there _was_ a Doping Forum.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

My Vote: Delete it


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

il sogno said:


> Thorfinn needs to get a life. Oh, wait. He got arrested by the Feds last week. He's got something more important to focus his energy on now.


Like finding other ways to cheat in his life and/or business. People like him have no ethics.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

OK guys, I merged a couple of threads.


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

Jwiffle said:


> Mechanical cheating is probably difficult enough for Strava to police.


True statement if you're talking about stuff like the hidden motor that the Belgian woman got caught with. Strava is probably referring to segments done in motor vehicle. More often than not it's done on accident, but easy to tell and flag when you see speeds go from 0-60 in a few seconds up a hill, route clearly follows Interstate at 80 mph. etc.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

okay, let's start with the notion of Strava
anyone who checks segments of their rides to see if they are the fastest around already has issues
Anyone competitive enough to constantly check their data against strangers is a prime candidate for doping


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## Jwiffle (Mar 18, 2005)

atpjunkie said:


> okay, let's start with the notion of Strava
> anyone who checks segments of their rides to see if they are the fastest around already has issues
> Anyone competitive enough to constantly check their data against strangers is a prime candidate for doping


All Strava users are dopers. Ok. Got it.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

Jwiffle said:


> All Strava users are dopers. Ok. Got it.


wow, how do you get 'prime candidate' to mean 'all users'

I know lots of folks who use Strava just to check their own training

but for those who obsess over KOMs, yes their personality type would make them prone to doping


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## Jwiffle (Mar 18, 2005)

atpjunkie said:


> wow, how do you get 'prime candidate' to mean 'all users'
> 
> I know lots of folks who use Strava just to check their own training
> 
> but for those who obsess over KOMs, yes their personality type would make them prone to doping


Obviously, I extended it to the extreme to show the absurdity of the comment. 

Strava was designed so you could measure yourself against others. It's kind of the point. Even if you don't try for koms that are out of reach, it's fun to see how high up the last you can get. Without doping. 

I doubt most, or any, of the koms in my area are held by dopers. No pros even ride in the area I mostly ride. But a few do sometimes ride in the popular areas to the south of me, and I like to see where I stack up against them when I ride down that way.

I know plenty of people who do try for koms, or at least like to see how they compare against others, who have never considered doping. I'm not sure any one personality type is more prone to doping than another. Many very competitive people would never consider doping just because they are so competitive-they would want to know they actually won, not stole a victory by cheating.


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## ddave12000 (Aug 16, 2013)

Jwiffle said:


> Obviously, I extended it to the extreme to show the absurdity of the comment.
> 
> Strava was designed so you could measure yourself against others. It's kind of the point. Even if you don't try for koms that are out of reach, it's fun to see how high up the last you can get. Without doping.
> 
> ...


Yes, it's easy to be competitive without the doping. Strava makes that fun.


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## rixsurfer (Dec 8, 2010)

This thread get KOM for dumbest thread....ever.....


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

rixsurfer said:


> This thread get KOM for dumbest thread....ever.....


You're new around here....so we'll grant you a pass...

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/ge...les-60-mins-what-my-average-speed-352944.html


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

rixsurfer said:


> This thread get KOM for dumbest thread....ever.....


Your first (and only) post in 5yrs and you think it's the dumbest thread... ever?


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## DLd (Aug 25, 2005)

Hey, it would be GREAT if Strava could actually flag dopers and remove them from the leaderboard. Unfortunately, here in reality, how do you expect them to actually do that? It's not like Strava accounts are even verified in regards to the name. All you need is an email address to open a Strava account. I suspect that's the difference in a Pro badge, is that they're verified accounts, so they can use it for their social marketing, which is half the job of being a pro nowadays. But for everyone else, how would they even know? As others have said, do we remove KOM's or a 2nd or 3rd on the leaderboard, for someone who was obviously sitting on someone's wheel on a segment? Yeah, it's different than doping, but it does go to show just how little legitimacy many of these segments have. I think what's being missed is going for KOM's on Strava is something you do for FUN. It doesn't really matter. I like to try for KOM's, and I don't dope. When I get an email that I lost a KOM, sometimes it gives me an incentive to go out and hit that segment harder, or sometimes I just don't care, because I have real races to worry about. Sometimes I'm just on a ride, and see afterwards that I got some top 10's or KOMs. That **** happens sometimes when you're trying to maintain threshold pace for some interval and you happen to blast down a hill people usually rest on. Does it mean anything? No, but it's funny sometimes. Really, I use Strava because it's the best and most convenient way to track my training. Let's face it, Garmin Connect sucks. The usability of Strava is just far better. Timing my interval training so it coincides with a Strava segment sometimes gives me a little extra motivation to push through it too, guess that makes me a Stravahole.

Really, I think the Strava haters are just people who thought they were badass, or at least pretty fast, then they got on Strava and found out they're in 387th place out of 4268, so now they ***** about how everyone with a KOM or on a leaderboard must be a doper, because it couldn't possibly be due to them putting in the hours and busting their ass.


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## arai_speed (Aug 19, 2003)

I flagged a few of his rides...they were quickly put back on.

A few others put comments on his rides and he both deleted the comments and blocked those users.

Too funny!


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

DLd said:


> It's not like Strava accounts are even verified in regards to the name. All you need is an email address to open a Strava account. I suspect that's the difference in a Pro badge, is that they're verified accounts, so they can use it for their social marketing, which is half the job of being a pro nowadays.


I suppose this is the real crux.

The scumbag this thread was started about is using the account for social marketing and basing a whole brand off of it. He sure has a lot to lose and is gaming the system as hard as it can be gamed. 

Seeing how it's an alias and a fake account really that sort of adds a layer of protection for him. It's very easy to just add a PED badge to anyone who fails a drug test, but fake names and accounts can't be tested. Funny how he writes on his fake account that he was the most tested person... it's not a real person... he's something else, lol.

There will always be scum in every part of society, every clique.


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## arai_speed (Aug 19, 2003)

There appears to be a spin-off clothing line:


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