# Shimano 2009



## Shojii

Hi,

No news on the 7900 Dura-Ace yet, but there is going to be new finish for the 105 groupset - it's a black finish, similar to the option available on the previous 9sp incarnation. No news on Dura-Ace electric or what the new mechanical levers will be like : (

http://happymtb.org/2008/02/12/nya-produkter-fran-shimano-20082009/


----------



## crumjack

I think more will be known after this weekend.


----------



## XCRDR

Here's some good news on the electrical Dura-Ace, it appears that it's pretty much the final version that's shown there...

http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-16741982.html

:thumbsup:


----------



## Richard_Gozinya

*7900*

Wait til you see the new DA goodies. All I can say is poor Crampy, your days are numbered...But thanx to SRAM for uppin' the ante.


----------



## Shojii

Spill the Beans Richard_Gozinya! Whatcha got on 7900 that we don't have?


----------



## Richard_Gozinya

Derailleur cables under tape. Ti clamp band. Carbon blade with easier reach from hoods and relocated pivot for better leverage. 20% reduction in lever throw. No trim for front derailleur (not needed, cross chain away). Adjustable reach. Flight deck with HR, altitude, & incline (PC download). Front derailleur 20% stronger spring. Brakes have Ti hardware and recessed cable stop and arch style for more power. Rear derailleur carbon jockey cage and redesigned wheels to get rid of need for GS. 3 cranks alloy 130, alloy 110, and carbon 130 with BB30 on the way. Crank spindle alloy/carbon. A lil' bird told me...


----------



## Shojii

Awesome! Thanks. Did 'lil bird happen to drop any pics in your inbox?

Cheers, Shojii


----------



## crumjack

Muchas Gracias Richard! Compatible with 7800?


----------



## mh3

Heh, Sram designs front derailleur trim into the new Red shifters after feedback from the pro's and consumers, and Shimano decides to dump it on the new DA group. Should make for some interesting discussion depending on how it works out. Wonder if they have the same plans for the lower groups as well. Guess it's wait and see.


----------



## bdaghisallo1

So what about backward compatibility with 7800? I saw some reports that many things wouldn't work with the current stuff - new sti levers with 7800 brake calipers, 7900 sti levers with 7800 fr derr, for instance.

And what of EDA? Is that a definite go for 2009?

Which group will see the light of day first and make it to market first?

Any indications on pricing?

Tell us EVERYTHING!! Please?


----------



## carbonfibrekid

it wont be that big of a deal if there isn't backwards compatibility (remember in ,03 when DA went 10 speed)


----------



## bdaghisallo1

Well, actually, when DA went to 10sp in 7800, there was quite a bit of backwards compatibility. The new 10sp cassettes fit on the 9sp hubs. There was never an issue with the 7800 sti levers operating the 7700 brake calipers properly. 

I fully expect that the new DA will require a complete 7900 drivetrain to work as designed. That I have no issue with. It was only the wilder rumors like the 7800 brake caliper/7900 STL lever in compatibility that had me concerned.


----------



## carbonfibrekid

it may be a new cassette spacing to be more like campy in order to get a wider chain for more drivetrain stiffness but that would cause a new cassette body on the wheels causing manufacures to make this wich would be impractical
another thing to consider is shimano may remove to brake lever return spring(slr) in order to remove weight, making the brakes and brake levers not cross comatible.
as for the F.der. and shifter non-compatibility it may be due to the fact that they maychange the pull ratio, or change the acuation angle,
(these are just guesses)
anyone have any more news on the EDura-Ace?


----------



## Hawkeye

My Campy Record 4 years ago had under the bar wrap cable routing. Also carbon fiber. I can adjust my front derailleur so it doesn't rub. What are you going to do when Shimano changes Dura Ace again in 2 years when yours brakes? The new stuff won't work with the old!!! Sorry, I'll stay with Campy. Heart rate, Polar is it.


----------



## cotocalicyclist

Wow, thanks so much for coming into the Shimano forum to dump on their new product (before you have even seen them) and promote Campy. Very original and openminded of you.


----------



## Hawkeye

Richard_Gozinya said:


> Wait til you see the new DA goodies. All I can say is poor Crampy, your days are numbered...But thanx to SRAM for uppin' the ante.


Sorry, I should have used the quote...


----------



## rollin nolan

This morning Competitive Cyclist emailed a write up called "09 Shimano Dura-Ace 7900 Confidental". It has since been pulled off of their site at Shimano’s request. I'll do my best to remember what it had to say. Feel free to fill in anything I've missed if you got the email too.

Shifters: Under the tape cable routing. Different housing with different shape. No more bull-horns, more SRAM like shape. 20 percent shorter/easier throw for right shifts. Adjustable brake lever reach, carbon levers, no FD trim: They claim the drive train will be able to cross-chain without trim.

FD: I don't remember much here, different actuation and cage, titanium clamp, no trim, 

RD: Carbon cage, different actuation will allow more chain wrap / larger gear spreads up to 11/28. 

Crank: Standard DA 7900 crank will be aluminum but a new super thin forging will make it lighter than any carbon crank on the market. Chain rings are different with tighter tolerances or something like that. Will be available as a compact. Also available in the already released super expensive carbon version. 

Chain: Will be narrower to work with the new crank and cassette. Hollow pins and perforated plates.
Cassette: Different cogs with tighter tolerances closer cog spacing (? , will be available in several new gear combos 11/28, 11/25 and a few others. 
Brakes: New cable stop design, better performance, new pads are supposed to be 210% better in the wet 10% in the dry.
Compatibility: It sounded like 7900 components will only work with 7900 except the levers will pull 7800 brakes just fine. 

Like I said, this is from memory from early this morning so I wouldn’t quote me. Hopefully others will fill in the blanks.


----------



## Shojii

Hi,

I managed to save a copy...fugly brifters. What's with the white plastic...let's hope it's pre-production

"Most of the press we've seen in the last few months about the new-for-2009 Shimano Dura Ace has focused on the electronic version of DA. Stefan Schumacher medaled on eDA at last year's World Championship Road Race, and he and his Gerolsteiner team mates have served as guinea pigs for eDA ever since. While the pure novelty of electronic shifting tantalizes, we got our own medals (for bravery) for fighting at the Battle of Zap and Battle of Mektronic. While we're intrigued by the alleged telepathic shift quality of eDA, it's hard to shed our concerns for its weight, its durability, and its reliability.

The excitement over eDA has been noisy, and it's obscured an underappreciated fact: Along with eDA, Shimano is also releasing a new version of non-electronic DA. It'll be known as Dura Ace 7900, and we've finally seen our first confirmed technical details about 7900. The purpose of this What's New posting is to shed some light on what you'll be seeing in the new-for-2009 non-electronic Dura Ace.

Here's what we DON'T know about Dura Ace 7900: Weight and cost. As soon as we get this info, we'll pass it along. But, for now, all we have is basic technical info. And, sorry, we don't have photos either.

Here's what we DO know, on a component-by-component basis:

STI Levers -

Say farewell to exposed shifter housing. Shimano is making the change to under-the-bar-tape cable routing They refer to it as "integral shift cables". We wonder if Shimano-sponsored pros will find digging deep on the front a but tougher without shift cables to grab on for stability…
"Better access to the lever from upper side with closer pivot." Our interpretation of this means that the shape of the brake hood will be different. We've never enjoyed the deep hook of DA brake hoods, and to our ears it sounds like Shimano is modifying the shape to make it more SRAM/Campy-like. In other words, no more plunging hook, and instead you'll see a flatter hood. Beyond the ergonomic improvement, Shimano also claims this leads to smoother braking.
You get a reach adjustment mechanism. This is a nice feature of SRAM Red, as well. Folks with small hands should be very pleased.
20% shorter stroke to achieve shift engagement on the right lever.
Weight savings thanks to the use of a carbon brake lever and a titanium fixing band & bolt.
Rear Derailleur -

Carbon! The pulley plate will be made from carbon fiber. Shimano is a company built on their commitment to the forging of alloys, so any sort of branching out into composites is a big, big deal.
Increased chain wrap capacity. In other words, you can use a wide range of gears (e.g. a 50/34 & an 11/2Cool without having to resort to a "Triple" rear derailleur.
You get an "enhanced pulling cable method" with an audible click when the shift is complete. But the price of superior shifting is this: Dura Ace 7900 STI Levers and the 7900 Rear Derailleur will not be compatible with current 7800-series Dura Ace.
Front Derailleur -

Shimano claims that your days of trimming the front derailleur are over. No trimming will be required. This is a pretty big coup when you compare it to SRAM, since one big upside of Red (in comparison to their Force and Rival gruppos) was its inclusion of FD trim.
The FD spring tension has been re-tooled to achieve "featherlight downshifting".
Crankset -

Put aside your sugar-plum visions of a DA Carbon crankset. Rather, Shimano has forged their 7900-series aluminum crank with even thinner walls to make it lighter than any production carbon crankset in the marketplace.
When you use the 7900-series crankset with the new 7900-series chain, you'll get no front derailleur rub thanks to its new chainring/spider design. This also allegedly provides improved power transfer, thanks to the superior mating of chain and chainring.
More weight savings comes from its new aluminum/carbon composite BB axle.
Shimano will also introduce a 7950 version of the crankset, with 50/34 chainrings. This will be the first-ever Dura Ace compact crank (a full, what, 7 years since FSA introduced theirs?)
Chain -

The 7900 chain is known as the "Super Narrow" chain. The redesigned outer plate resists chain suck, and the new design of both the inner & outer plate mesh with the chainrings with such precision that Shimano claims it reduces mechanical friction by 0.6%. We're a bit unsure how to parse what that 0.6% converts to…Does that mean an extra 2.4w when you're making a 400w effort? We're unsure, and we're eager for a fuller explanation. Perhaps more important is the fact that Shimano also says it's a quieter chain.
The 7900-series chain has hollow pins and perforated plates to further reduce weight.
Shimano will introduce a "Quick Link" for its 10-speed chains. Our impression is that this means tool-free installation.
Cassette -

Like the chain and the crankset, the cassette sprockets get fine-tuned to optimize shifting, and the cog carrier is a lighter-than-ever aluminum.
You'll see a wider array of cassette ratio options. In addition to all of the options you get in 7800, you'll also see an 11/25, 11/27, and an 11/28. Before you laugh at the 11/28, keep in mind that this is SRAM's #1 selling cassette ratio! All the ratios made in the 7800 will be produced as 7900-series models as well.
Brake Calipers -

Dig this: "Enhanced brake arch proportion." We think this means that you get quicker caliper response when you hit your brake lever, and perhaps better stiffness under heavy braking. We suspect that this is a photo of the new brake. Interestingly, the boys over at the Weight Weenies forum pointed out that this poor rider appears to have his brake shoes on the wrong side…
Lower profile outer cable stop. This improves cable routing, which decreases drag and improves the snappiness of the lever. If you've ever installed a set of Zero Gravity brakes, you know that fine-tuned brake cable routing is something you should never take for granted.
The brake pad compound changes. Shimano claims that the improvement will be most noticeable in the wet, where stopping power improves 210%. In the dry, you should expect a 120% improvement in stopping power.
Add'l titanium hardware saves overall weight.
Flight Deck Computer -

It's still integrated into the STI levers, but the functionality gets much broader -- It includes a heart rate monitor, altimeter, and an inclinometer. It's a full-on 2.4GHz wireless system, and you can even download data wirelessly onto your PC.
A final note on our understanding about backwards compatibility:

Rear Drivetain -- The 7900 system is only compatible with other 7900 components. The 7900 rear derailleur is compatible with 7800-series cassettes, but that's it. There is no other cross-compatibility. This also means that 7800-series components cannot be used in piecemeal with 7900 if your plan is to upgrade one component at a time. More or less, you'll need to upgrade to 7900 STI, rear derailleur, cassette, and chain in one fell swoop.

Front Drivetrain -- Same story. There's an Iron Curtain between 7900 and 7800. The only kinda, sorta compatibility is between the 7900 front derailleur and the 7800 crankset. Shimano states "slower shifting may occur depending on frame dimension" if you choose to mix things like this. We're not sure if "dimension" means frame size or geometry or what. But we can't imagine someone running a full 7800 bike with the exception of a 7900 front derailleur, so it's not something we're terribly worried about.

Brake Systems -- The 7900 STI Levers are compatible with 7800-series brake calipers.

We're looking at a best-case scenario of a late September 2008 delivery timeline. We're sure it'll be all over the '08 Tour de France, and in full force at the Eurobike tradeshow shortly thereafter. But in terms of delivery, if it's before Halloween, we'll be stoked."


----------



## funhog1

*Just a no trim IMHO*



mh3 said:


> Heh, Sram designs front derailleur trim into the new Red shifters after feedback from the pro's and consumers, and Shimano decides to dump it on the new DA group. Should make for some interesting discussion depending on how it works out. Wonder if they have the same plans for the lower groups as well. Guess it's wait and see.



Have tried SRAM's no trim in big ring and loved it. Having seen the system work when both a wrench and rider have taken the time to learn it and set it up....I'm chalking the pro-t diss as a result of "lazy" team mechanics that don't want to have extra tuning $h17 to deal with. I.E. Let the rider get the fd perfect with a trim function while "they" are riding. Also P-T mechs prefer to let the engineers at SRAM take up the slack as a fail safe, fall back to plan in case "something" comes up....perhaps some strange arbitrary rider preference (like Julichs Ossymetric rings)....Clearly Pro-T wrenches are anything but lazy and I couldn't blame them wanting the added security of having trim available to avoid the ***** of some Pro-t rider whose bike gets gremlined by insanity invoking chain rub whilst in the middle of an event....and has to go back to the team car for fixin' OR ride the rest of the event wanting to poke their own eye out because of some infernal drivetrain noise. 

If riders and wrenches take the time to learn i.e. if it's set up right the Force/Rival no trim in big ring works purrrfect, and they could easily love the whole no-trim/cross chain option. Ten speed chains are plenty flexible enough to handle the cassette spread. 

But humans aren't as flexible as ten speed chains (03 XTR anyone?).....so hopefully both Shimi and Sram can take a page out of the XTR rework and create a have it your way / both ways system so those that want to see drivetrain progression get theirs and those that want tried and true familiarity get theirs =)


----------



## Rubber Lizard

I find it amusing on how much speculation there is on 7900. Shimano is keeping everything very very tightly under wraps. Most people at Shimano North America know as much as anyone else on this forum, maybe less.
I'll be glad when 7900 comes out, it should prove once again that Shimano knows more about making bike parts than anyone else.


----------



## santosjep

*More pics*

Here's a larger pic and one in action.... I found them at another website.


----------



## mmorast

The second one looks like eDA. Those thinner cables are bent crazy, and the hoods look different shape.


----------



## California L33

cotocalicyclist said:


> Wow, thanks so much for coming into the Shimano forum to dump on their new product (before you have even seen them) and promote Campy. Very original and openminded of you.


I've got 4 Shimano equipped bikes and no Campy, but Hawkeye has a point- they make great stuff, but they haven't exactly been ahead of the curve, and the Campy stuff can be repaired. Let's hope they're ahead of the curve with 7900.


----------



## Richard_Gozinya

*"It's re-buildable..."*

2 years. No problem!!! Free 3 year warranty....Ooohhhh, I forgot. Something like breaks in, right? Yeah just about the time a new Ultra, or Quick shift, or the new lovely Escape comes out. 3 years late on external BB systems (a rushed one at that, nice wavey washer for bearing pre-load). And 3 different front derailleurs before this year? Ergo shifter? With 90 degree edges? What's ergo about that? Last I looked at my hand it didn't look square. 4.5mm housing and non-standard derailleur cable heads? Here's another $50 for a new cableset. Lets not even start on pedals (which are rumored to be going away). Torq's bolts on brakes, are they disc? Another mystery, why hide under the Fulcrum name? Cause you want other people that know better to buy in? At least they have a better lace pattern, but G3? Nice wagon wheel, where they get that idea? Little House on the Praire. Campagnolo should sell themselves to Heinz. Cause all they know is catchup!!! Last I looked they had less than 10% market share, and that was before SRAM dropped their stuff. Which I'm sure bit into Crampy's share. Due to the fact their (SRAM) shifter cables are under the bar tape also (the main gripe people have with Shimano, which now what are they gonna cry about with 7900). And yes I had a Record bike 2 years ago (and sold it in 4 months) still feel bad about selling it to another human being. And to think the company all started over a QR skewer, thanks Tulio. How would we have ever made it without you? Unless your Italian, why make yourself suffer????


Yours truly,
Chef Boyardee

PS. Lovely hybrid grouppo, where's the MTB grouppo. Ooohhh, we tried that once...


----------



## Hawkeye

With all your spare Shimano parts you can make a fishing reel,oh that right they make fishing reels! Good luck in 09. I work at a bike shop so I'll see how it works.


----------



## Shojii

So aside from the usual S vs C shite, does anyone know how the new shifters work (the brake levers don't look like they pivot...)????


----------



## Purple Liquid

I'm a Sram rider, but I'm not here to bash anyone. So sorry if any of the following sounds negative.

I feel that Shimano is feeling the heat from Sram. Being a more avid mountain biker than roadie, Sram has taken the lead with shifting and braking. Sram cannot make a crankset to save their lives, but they've master Trigger Shifting. Sram cannot make a lightweight MTB cassette, even though Sram is messing around with a carbon-spider in a Ti cassette... whatever I'll believe it when I see it  

As far as the road stuff, I run Force. After coming off of 2 year-old Dura Ace 7800, I'd say I like Force better. However, what Shimano has planned for 09 is everything I disliked about the past Shimano. I think Shimano could careless about Campy, and care more about Sram. The 11/28 is cross-gearing, which is why I run that cassette on my cross bike. 

I can agree with people when they say that Shimano isn't exactly ahead of the curve, but once they come around and produce a product that is just as good as the current competitor, it become the basis of what other companies want to improve on.

That said, the 2009 group will be very impressive. Will I consider an 09 DA group; probably not. I hope the shifters do NOT look like the ones in the pictures, cause that is ugly. Sorry. 

Best of luck for Shimano in 2009, I'm sure we won't be disappointed :thumbsup:


----------



## Richard_Gozinya

Being a 50% MTB'er. I think their feelin' the heat also. Don't know why (I do), Dual control (especially the 970 generation rules!!!). I mean come on, your finger is already on the brake lever 75% of the time. Why not just flick it? Taking the one thing take makes us better than a monkey off the bar to shift? Shimano had to go back to making triggers (who make the 1st trigger when others were aahh twisting their grip, and never really quit?) but couldn't quit makin' Dual Control. It would be admitting failure. They would have to fall on their Shogun sword or something. Japanese have a hard as heck time saying they were wrong.

As far as road goes. This year I've got a RED bike. Figured it would be impossible to sell a DA bike after the new 7900 drops this fall. Where the RED grouppo will fly when I list it on eBay when I go to purchase the new DA grouppo. Plus when I tell people RED is yah or nah (just like I did with Record), it will be from experience, not because a friend said it blew.

But one thing many are forgetting. FSA is on the verge of droppin' a couple drivetrains. Those guys had been makin' head way in the industry and even in the European peloton. 

As far as the ugly shifter goes. Function over fashion any day. Which is one of my major gripes with Crampy (their fashion must be part of it attitude, which comes from Milan). If you can look down at your shifter or whatever while you're descending a mountain on the road at 45+mph and say "gosh I'm glad my shifters are pretty" or when you're about to puke climbing. I'll sponsor you myself. People say Shimano looks robotic. But hey if I remember right, robots work without cryin' and do what their programmed to do and do it when their told. They don't need to "Break in".

Ohhh, Hawkeye. Why the pro's askin' for a new Record red shifter? Old ones blew, yep they did.......


----------



## Rubber Lizard

Richard_Gozinya said:


> But one thing many are forgetting. FSA is on the verge of droppin' a couple drivetrains. Those guys had been makin' head way in the industry and even in the European peloton.
> 
> 
> O..


Sorry for the derail but.....
Knowing the current quality of FSA products the rumored FSA groups will wonderfully amazing at being full of hype while working poorly and or being poorly made. FSA makes decent headsets, everything else is substandard. An average weight variation of 10-15% on most of their carbon parts is not acceptable. 
Maybe thats why they keep postponing the release of the groups. 

Now about that Dura-Ace 7900....I hope it pisses off the campy-o-philes because I honestly I love to piss them off. Nothing really wrong with campy, but its not any better than Shimano. And II hate the baseless shimano bashing. Now that Sram is starting to figure out how to make decent parts the competition should really heat up.
Get it right Shiamno, don't do another dual control or biopace.


----------



## cotocalicyclist

Not a lot of new information, but here is an interesting article recently posted at Cyclingnews.com:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2008/features/shimano_da09_rumours_mar08




California L33 said:


> I've got 4 Shimano equipped bikes and no Campy, but Hawkeye has a point- they make great stuff, but they haven't exactly been ahead of the curve, and the Campy stuff can be repaired. Let's hope they're ahead of the curve with 7900.


I never said anything concerning Campy. I have used both and I think they are both great groups and each have their own merits. Haven't used SRAM yet, but I am sure Red/Force is great as well. I was simply pointing out that the C vs S debate is ridiculous and unnecessary in this thread. We are all fans of bikes on this forum and we should be happy that we have choices and healthy competition between the manufacturers. I think we would also agree that we would probably be riding pretty crappy stuff if there was only one group manufacturer. 

Granted, we haven't actually seen the final production version of 7900, but even Campy fans have to admit that it sounds like Shimano has done their homework and addressed what many perceive as weaknesses in 7800. We should all be happy about that.


----------



## MarvinK

You can be certain the final version of the DA 7900 shifters will look at least as nice as the current model (with no white plastic) and will look even better thanks to the cable routing.

Remember how bad the early SRAM Red prototype levers looked when David Millar rode them last year? The final result was the best looking levers by SRAM or anyone else (unless you don't care for the loud graphics).


----------



## seahuston

Dont shoot me but I am kind of upset that the cables are being moved. Yes, I am one of 10 guys who would rather have them out. It is so much easier to swich cables and housing without ruining you bar tape, especially useful for cross. Not saying its better or worse; "but with sram you dont have to worry about contamination" "be more careful unwrapping your bars" "get better cables" "its still ugly" everyone has their opinion, presenting mine.


----------



## MarvinK

Why be upset? It just means that parts just got a whole lot cheaper for the 10 of you with bad taste!


----------



## cotocalicyclist

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/200...h.php?id=/tech/2008/features/wevelgem_tech108

This article has the most information and pictures so far. 7900 is looking pretty good. I am sure the final production versions will be finished and refined even further. Too bad they didn't show the new cassette or crank.


----------



## Dr_John

> Dont shoot me but I am kind of upset that the cables are being moved.


I'll be upset that I won't be able to use my "Fred-friendly" Dura Ace gear indicator.


----------



## California L33

Dr_John said:


> I'll be upset that I won't be able to use my "Fred-friendly" Dura Ace gear indicator.


Don't worry, it will have a voice synthesizer to tell you what gear you're in. You shift gears and the voice says, "You have shifted to a fifteen tooth rear sprocket. Thank you for choosing Shimano." And naturally, you can't turn it off  (I almost hate to joke about that because someone from Shimano may be watching this thread).


----------



## TiDreaming

I dont know why Shimano and Campy need to develop e-shifting, it seems pretty pointless, as in practical terms it not going to offer any conceivable advantage over mechanical shifting.

It would appear this development is just for the sake of having to having something new, rather then for technical advancement. I would of though R&D be better spent in improved materials rather then old ideas rehashed.

PS same post in Campy forum.


----------



## serious humour

Is it likely that I'll be able to fit a 7900 compact chainset onto an otherwise 7800 bike, without changing chain/shifter/then everything else? Is the throw likely to be the same as now?


----------



## toonraid

I have both DA and Record and like them both for different purposes. The new DA seems to bridge the gap in many ways. But reading through the posts and people talking about how the new DA will leap past Record I didn't read anything about the fact that Campy will be releasing a New range in September too!

Apparently it has an all new ergo, additional range of cassettes and rumours of an even narrower chain (5.5) and there is even less info on their new range so 09 will be a very interesting year for groupsets. It was time for shimano to do something as the old DA & Ultegra were really getting pushed out of the medium to high end market not just due to their weight but also the success of Sram, introduction of affordable FSA carbon chainsets as well as Campagnolo's change in policy towards OEM sales, Campagnolo has traditionally focused on aftermarket sales but started to push OEM sales recently which explains why you are seeing more and more medium range bikes kitted with Centaur, Veloce & Mirage.

I kind of put that down to the fact that due to their MTB sales volume that's were are the resources for development were heading which i suppose made commercial sense but then getting pushed by Sram in both MTB & Road and campagnolo in the Road market must have provided enough catalyst for action.

As for Campy - they will have a tough time with euro prices being high which should work in favour of both Shimano and Sram.

I will probably upgrade both my sets to 09 DA & Record just to see the difference but I kind of think that the differences will be less than the currect range which is a shame coz its nice to have variety, contrast and choice.


----------



## bdaghisallo1

Keep in mind that one reason that Campy hasn't been so visible in the OEM market of late is because of their size. Campagnolo is a small company and have nowhere near the production capacity of Sram or Shimano. The last time there was a wave of interest in speccing Campy on OEM bikes, they simply couldn't meet the demands for product and were regularly missing deadlines, which is a major no-no in the OEM business.


----------



## the_brett

*Shimano 7900 spotted...*

Is this the electric or cable actuated Shimano group? Can't tell... looks to be one of the final versions. It appears to be carbon.

View attachment 125662


----------



## bdaghisallo1

That's the cable actuated 7900.


----------



## SleeveleSS

bdaghisallo1 said:


> That's the cable actuated 7900.


Does that mean it's the electronic or the mechanical version?


----------



## bdaghisallo1

Mechanical.


----------



## MarvinK

Looks like the ugly step-sister to SRAM Red


----------



## toonraid

Does anyone know if the new 09 DA is 11 speed like Campagnolo's 09 range and would there be a Super Dura Ace coz Campagnolo seems to be sending out a Super Record Groupset alongside the Record as well.


----------



## sw3759

*no 11 speed 7900*

"Does anyone know if the new 09 DA is 11 speed like Campagnolo's 09 range and would there be a Super Dura Ace coz Campagnolo seems to be sending out a Super Record Groupset alongside the Record as well."


pretty much guarantee that 7900 will be 10speed not 11.i had not heard that Campy had 11 cogs in the pipeline though.Super Dura Ace will be the electronic version i suppose but will not be released until sometime in early 09' from what i have heard.


----------



## toonraid

Super Record is a super light version of Record and not their electric version which is still under development.


----------



## Shojii

*Some spy shots from the Giro, courtesy of Oli*

Thanks Oli! http://oli-roadworks.blogspot.com/


----------



## airs0ft3r

Crankset looks...awesome.


----------



## musgravecycles

airs0ft3r said:


> Crankset looks...awesome.


that's a 7800 series SRM with 7900 rings. Apparently SRM can't fit their strain gauges into the new 7900 crankset on account of the hollow spider so Shimano will keep producing the 7800 for a while...


----------



## mark381

When are Shimano likely to release the 7900 Dura Ace? I have recently purchased a new frame which has been built up for the time being with my old Ultegra components, but I want to fit it out with DA. I am not waiting for the electric version, just the mechanical one.

Thanks


----------



## MarvinK

Or you could always do SRAM Red--and get Dura Ace 2009 features today...


----------



## kooratz

here it is folks, bit fugly in two tone....

https://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=/tech/2008/features/shimano_dura-ace_790008


----------



## Shojii

Heh heh, what's with those newfangled downtube shifters? They are indexed no?


----------



## mark381

Like it!, suppose the only other question is how much? In line with existing 7800 prices or Red prices.


----------



## Light-Bikes

*all Informations about the new DA09!*


----------



## Quickdraw

I posted this in the Campagnolo forum under the thread regarding 2009 Campagnolo pricing. However, I think it is relevant to Shimano 2009 pricing as well. The gist of it is that I think we may be in for a very substantial price increase in the U.S. for parts in the coming year. And it has nothing to do with exchange rates or gas prices. I apologize for the length of the post. Please let me know what you think.

I am curious to hear what other people are thinking about pricing on 2009 gruppos from Campagnolo and Shimano. It has been widely reported that prices for Record and Chorus will remain largely unchanged from the 2008 levels. For instance, Cycling News reports that “Record is predicted to retail at 2 percent less than the current 10-speed while Super Record is projected to be 17 percent higher.” (see www.cyclingnews.com - the world centre of cycling ; i.e. http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?...mpagnolo_jun08) However, to say that the Record Group will retail at 2 percent less than then the current ten speed may be highly misleading in the end. 

The only place that I can find prices for 2009 Campagnolo Record is at Competitive Cyclist. They currently list the 2008 Record Gruppo at $1,765. (see Configure/Buy Gruppo Component Package - Competitive Cyclist ; i.e. http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za...AGE=BUY_GRUPPO) Possibly it was previously a little higher, but I doubt that it was more than $1,900 over the past year. At these 2008 prices, the 2009 Campagnolo Record should cost between $1,730-$1,862. Instead, they are priced at $2,800. Clearly, this is not a 2% decrease as indicated in Cycling News and elsewhere. 

The knee-jerk reaction is to attribute the pricing to the initial gouging that goes on when any new product comes on the market and the demand exceeds the supply. Some people will pay just about anything to be the first to get the item, so some suppliers take advantage. I am wondering, though, if there is something else going on here. I nearly always purchase parts on-line because I do not really need the assistance of a shop and, while I would be willing to pay a little more for service, the premium that most shops charge for Campagnolo Record and Shimano Dura-Ace to me seems exorbitant. That said, Competitive Cycling had this posted on their web site:

“We've gotten some interesting feedback already, specifically about the pricing of Super Record 11 and Record 11. We need to be really clear about one point: We don't make these prices up. We swear. Rather we're experiencing a breakthrough moment with Campagnolo: For the first time EVER in the history of the company, they're providing dealers an MSRP list for their components. In theory, every Campy dealer in the US will sell 11-speed at the same prices. Our prices here are indeed MSRP, so folks who accuse us of trying to abuse early adopters are, well, wrong. Ditto with Dura Ace 7900. Competitive Cyclist is a card-carrying Campagnolo Pro Shop and Authorized Shimano Internet Dealer, and that means we're obliged to advertise their components for MSRP. Campy 11 speed and Dura Ace 7900 is mouthwatering stuff, and it's worth every penny. We just want to make it clear that we don't make up these prices -- Campy and Shimano do.” (See What's New - Competitive Cyclist ; http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=WHATS_NEW )

A guy that I tried to speak with at Colorado Cyclist indicated that there was always MSRP from Campagnolo and Shimano. However, this may have something to do with semantics. There was a recent Supreme Court decision that basically made it much easier for manufacturers to dictate prices to retailers. (See Price-Fixing Makes Comeback After Supreme Court Ruling - WSJ.com; http://online.wsj.com/public/article...2_1563_leftbox ) I am wondering if Campagnolo and Shimano are now going to get tougher on on-line sellers regarding price. If that is the case, the 2% price decrease for Record may, in reality, be a 58.6% increase for those of us who choose to purchase on-line. The other question that remains is whether this will simply affect the prices that the on-line retailers advertise and we will then be forced to haggle over the phone to get a more reasonable price on the gruppo. If the prices stay fixed at $2,800 it will be a real windfall to local sellers as there will be much less incentive to go to the internet to get a better price. Any thoughts?


----------



## Campag12

This is a very informative opinion. I agree with the everything you say, and with semantics aside, cyclists who have the experience to wrench and buy most of their components online will be seeing a HUGE PRICE INCREASE. What surprises me is that this "trend" is not only limited to newly introduced products, as was the case with Sram Force shifters at an unreasonable price of $350 even on ebay back in 2005/2006 or with new campy 2009 11sp stuff but even with products introduced a few years back. For example, for most of my beaters, I've always loved the campy veloce shifters simply because they usually go for $100 dollars new (on PBK and ebay) and in some cases even come with a full package of cables (costing about $30). Granted, these are new old stocks are have been introduced a few years earlier at the date of purchase. However, these now go for $125-130, almost 25-30% increase in price for the same product compared to last year. 



Quickdraw said:


> I posted this in the Campagnolo forum under the thread regarding 2009 Campagnolo pricing. However, I think it is relevant to Shimano 2009 pricing as well. The gist of it is that I think we may be in for a very substantial price increase in the U.S. for parts in the coming year. And it has nothing to do with exchange rates or gas prices. I apologize for the length of the post. Please let me know what you think.
> 
> I am curious to hear what other people are thinking about pricing on 2009 gruppos from Campagnolo and Shimano. It has been widely reported that prices for Record and Chorus will remain largely unchanged from the 2008 levels. For instance, Cycling News reports that “Record is predicted to retail at 2 percent less than the current 10-speed while Super Record is projected to be 17 percent higher.” (see www.cyclingnews.com - the world centre of cycling ; i.e. http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?...mpagnolo_jun08) However, to say that the Record Group will retail at 2 percent less than then the current ten speed may be highly misleading in the end.
> 
> The only place that I can find prices for 2009 Campagnolo Record is at Competitive Cyclist. They currently list the 2008 Record Gruppo at $1,765. (see Configure/Buy Gruppo Component Package - Competitive Cyclist ; i.e. http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za...AGE=BUY_GRUPPO) Possibly it was previously a little higher, but I doubt that it was more than $1,900 over the past year. At these 2008 prices, the 2009 Campagnolo Record should cost between $1,730-$1,862. Instead, they are priced at $2,800. Clearly, this is not a 2% decrease as indicated in Cycling News and elsewhere.
> 
> The knee-jerk reaction is to attribute the pricing to the initial gouging that goes on when any new product comes on the market and the demand exceeds the supply. Some people will pay just about anything to be the first to get the item, so some suppliers take advantage. I am wondering, though, if there is something else going on here. I nearly always purchase parts on-line because I do not really need the assistance of a shop and, while I would be willing to pay a little more for service, the premium that most shops charge for Campagnolo Record and Shimano Dura-Ace to me seems exorbitant. That said, Competitive Cycling had this posted on their web site:
> 
> “We've gotten some interesting feedback already, specifically about the pricing of Super Record 11 and Record 11. We need to be really clear about one point: We don't make these prices up. We swear. Rather we're experiencing a breakthrough moment with Campagnolo: For the first time EVER in the history of the company, they're providing dealers an MSRP list for their components. In theory, every Campy dealer in the US will sell 11-speed at the same prices. Our prices here are indeed MSRP, so folks who accuse us of trying to abuse early adopters are, well, wrong. Ditto with Dura Ace 7900. Competitive Cyclist is a card-carrying Campagnolo Pro Shop and Authorized Shimano Internet Dealer, and that means we're obliged to advertise their components for MSRP. Campy 11 speed and Dura Ace 7900 is mouthwatering stuff, and it's worth every penny. We just want to make it clear that we don't make up these prices -- Campy and Shimano do.” (See What's New - Competitive Cyclist ; http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=WHATS_NEW )
> 
> A guy that I tried to speak with at Colorado Cyclist indicated that there was always MSRP from Campagnolo and Shimano. However, this may have something to do with semantics. There was a recent Supreme Court decision that basically made it much easier for manufacturers to dictate prices to retailers. (See Price-Fixing Makes Comeback After Supreme Court Ruling - WSJ.com; http://online.wsj.com/public/article...2_1563_leftbox ) I am wondering if Campagnolo and Shimano are now going to get tougher on on-line sellers regarding price. If that is the case, the 2% price decrease for Record may, in reality, be a 58.6% increase for those of us who choose to purchase on-line. The other question that remains is whether this will simply affect the prices that the on-line retailers advertise and we will then be forced to haggle over the phone to get a more reasonable price on the gruppo. If the prices stay fixed at $2,800 it will be a real windfall to local sellers as there will be much less incentive to go to the internet to get a better price. Any thoughts?


----------



## liamo43

Hi, Ive got 10 speed Ultegra ,Compact, 12 25, on a Pinarello Galileo, would a Sram OG 1070 11 28 Cassette work with the stock R Derailler, Cheers.


----------



## ksanbon

liamo43 said:


> Hi, Ive got 10 speed Ultegra ,Compact, 12 25, on a Pinarello Galileo, would a Sram OG 1070 11 28 Cassette work with the stock R Derailler, Cheers.


My Tarmac came w/ the 1070 11-28 cassette and the Dura Ace 7800 r derailleur and it works fine.


----------

