# Loose spokes on 08 Madone



## andyaa (Mar 5, 2008)

My friend and I both have been having trouble with loose spokes on the rear wheel of our 08 Madones. He has got over 3,000 miles on his bike I have just over 2,000. The spokes I have seen come loose are non drive side. Anybody else have this problem? What can I do to prevent more from coming loose?


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

It does help to true your wheels now and then. While the Bontrager Race Lites and Race X Lites for 2008 are a pretty tough wheel, they still need tweeking now and again. I have had to do my 2008 Race X Lite rear a couple of times over the past year, but I have significantly more miles than you both. Make sure the whole wheel is properly tensioned, that does help. If you are unable to do it yourself, or are having persistent problems, I would bring it by your LBS and have their wheel guy check it. 

But, otherwise, I do agree with you: for comparison sake, in over 3 years I have yet needed to touch a set of '05 Bonty Race Lites, and those wheels get abused.

zac


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## DougInRaleigh (Apr 25, 2007)

i have the 07 race lites and have had loose spoke issues on the rear wheel almost right away. after one ride a spoke was almost like a wet noodle. have yet to get it the shop to let them look at it. usually need to tighten a few spokes every 500 miles or so..........


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## sal r (Dec 14, 2005)

From Trek - Some early 2008 Race Lite wheels do not have an adequate amount of thread-locking compound on the spoke nipples.

Had That happen on my 08 5.2 and just added some thread compound and trued it right up and have been good for months with no issues.


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## andyaa (Mar 5, 2008)

I was thinking about using Loctite. Didn't know if that was a good idea or not. What strength/grade is recommended?


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

sal r said:


> From Trek - Some early 2008 Race Lite wheels do not have an adequate amount of thread-locking compound on the spoke nipples.
> 
> Had That happen on my 08 5.2 and just added some thread compound and trued it right up and have been good for months with no issues.


Sal, thanks wasn't aware of that. Didn't really want to get into pulling them out, so I never bothered to check them. Sounds like a winter weekend project.


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

andyaa said:


> I was thinking about using Loctite. Didn't know if that was a good idea or not. What strength/grade is recommended?



Andy, yes loctite is fine. You don't want to use anything too strong, as the nipples are soft and may strip out on your spoke tool with anything stronger. I keep 222, 242 and 246 in my box. You should be fine with 222 (weakest) but you can use 242 too, it's just 222 would be easier to use for spokes.

I pretty much use blue 242 (in glue stick format) on just about everything metal on my bike, I use 246 (a bit stronger) for repeat offenders.

Wherever you use loctite, just make sure you start with good clean threads. (tooth brush and chain cleaner first).

But just an FYI, mostly spokes are greased, not thread-locked. But radial spokes tend to need super high tension, and the build is usually a set and almost forget, so the nipples are threadlocked instead of greased. Using a mild threadlock allows the nipples to be tweaked without compromising the locker abilities. Also machine built wheels tend to be threadlocked too. I have not inspected my RLs and RXLs for locker, but I know my RLs are radial on the NDS and 1x on the DS, my RXLs are 1x on both sides. So I guess it would make sense that inadequate locker on the radial spokes (NDS) in your case is causing the problems.

good luck, sorry for the rambling post, just thinking out loud,
zac


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## JoeyBuck (Apr 2, 2008)

Some of you might find this interesting. It is the only wheel manual that I could find. It is from 2003, but the principles are the same. A email to Bonty said no information was available.
http://www.trisports.co.uk/images/Bont.wheel.manual.pdf


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

JoeyBuck said:


> Some of you might find this interesting. It is the only wheel manual that I could find. It is from 2003, but the principles are the same. A email to Bonty said no information was available.
> http://www.trisports.co.uk/images/Bont.wheel.manual.pdf


Great find! These are the little gems that the interwebs are famous for! Thanks JoeyBuck.

BTW, on your other post, I have yet to check my own wheels for tension, when I retrue, I usually just tension relative to surrounding spokes. But what you found is going to cause me to check em all and for absolute tension now too.


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## andyaa (Mar 5, 2008)

*More loose spokes*

I have had a couple more loose spokes since my last post. Seems I need to check them after every ride now. My friend has had more major trouble. He has had 3 broken nipples. They break right at the rim. One also cracked the rim and the LBS had to replace the rim. The latest broken nipple was just yesterday. He has contacted Trek about the issue. Will see what they have to say. My friends previous bike was a Trek 5200. He always bragged about the wheels on that bike, always straight, never a problem. He isn't very happy with Trek right now.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

"The world's an imperfect place, nipples break all the time"


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## S80 (Sep 10, 2007)

andyaa said:


> I have had a couple more loose spokes since my last post. Seems I need to check them after every ride now. My friend has had more major trouble. He has had 3 broken nipples. They break right at the rim. One also cracked the rim and the LBS had to replace the rim. The latest broken nipple was just yesterday. He has contacted Trek about the issue. Will see what they have to say. My friends previous bike was a Trek 5200. He always bragged about the wheels on that bike, always straight, never a problem. He isn't very happy with Trek right now.


I had the exact same issue and TREK replaced the wheel. The new wheel seems to be rock solid.


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## quickfeet18 (Mar 2, 2007)

The thread locking thing is true on the 08 race lites. trek issued a statement to all dealers about the issue. all it takes is a properly tension wheel and a little DT nipple freeze and my wheels have been solid for months, even on my cross bike. As for broken spokes and nipples it sounds like the LBS may have over tensioned the loose spokes to compensate.


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## DougInRaleigh (Apr 25, 2007)

well........took my 07 race lites to the trek store.....wound up getting the wheels "loctited" and trued. the wheel rides much better, the spoke tension very consistent now...most importantly the spokes show not indication of loosening. 

before after every other ride there was a loose one...its good to know that the loose spokes are not a characteristic of the wheel.........


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## andyaa (Mar 5, 2008)

Yeah, that is great to know. I will take mine to the LBS and get them tensioned and "locktited" as well. Just may have to wait till the season is over... 

My friend with the broken nipples contacted Trek and they quickly responded to his email. They said take the email in to the LBS and have the LBS call the number in the email. Trek is sending a new wheel, should arrive tomorrow. Let's hope this one is good.


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## JoeyBuck (Apr 2, 2008)

Just out of curiosity, since I am basically having the same issues, have you guys had to pay your LBS for the truing and locktiting? 

Or is Trek doing this under warranty?


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

JoeyBuck said:


> Just out of curiosity, since I am basically having the same issues, have you guys had to pay your LBS for the truing and locktiting?
> 
> Or is Trek doing this under warranty?


Joey, I do my own, but many LBS will do the wheels gratis. I would imagine on a error like this, they would do the locktite under warranty. 

Routine wheel truing is otherwise going to have a service fee charged.


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## JoeyBuck (Apr 2, 2008)

Zac, as you know, my plan to learn how to do this myself. 

It is just that I am out $100 so far and my wheel is in better shape then when I started to have the problem. But it is still UNSAFE and will not be used until it is back into the condition it was when I purchased the bike. 

Don't get me wrong, I respect the LBS completely. They are trying to please a good customer and I have no problem with them. 

I am not even sure if the LBS is really aware of the spokes as a design or assembly issue. According to Trek's web site, this was the first year that a one X rear lacing on the DS and NDS was designed into the RL wheel. It supposedly makes for a stronger wheel on accelerations, but as with any new design change, perhaps it is creating the issue with the spokes???

I don't know exactly what is going on here, but I am just trying to find out the extent of the problem and what, if anything, Trek is doing about it.

If it turns out to be just a matter of maintenance, then I will just deal with it myself.

Joe


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

JoeyBuck said:


> Zac, as you know, my plan to learn how to do this myself.
> 
> It is just that I am out $100 so far and my wheel is in better shape then when I started to have the problem. But it is still UNSAFE and will not be used until it is back into the condition it was when I purchased the bike.
> 
> ...


Joey I agree with you. I don't know what is going on with them either. I must say that I have trued this 2008 RXL (rear only) more times than I have any wheel in the last several years. I don't know the fully history of Bonty wheels, but this is the first Bonty that I have that is 1x on both the DS and NDS. I hear also lots of hearsay about Bontrager issues, but I ride with them and have ridden with many people who have never had a problem...As for myself, I have never had an issue with one until this one.

I would absolutely take the wheel back to the LBS and expect them to locktite it according to spec. I am thinking, now, about doing the same. To be honest some of the damn alloy nipples are starting to get a bit, how do we say, chewed, and probably time for some replacements. I am going to have to keep a closer eye on this wheel, cause this type of situation leads to cracked rims, cracked flanges, and busted spokes.


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## the sky above tar below (Mar 31, 2004)

Most bike shops have a one year free adjustment policy with the purchase of a new bike. Mine does.


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## andyaa (Mar 5, 2008)

Does anybody have a copy of the letter that was sent out to all Trek dealers regarding the lack of thread locking? Figure this would be a good thing to take in with my bike.


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

Bump.

I snapped a spoke today. Broke at the hub. Happened under acceleration on a very slight ascent. LBS took care of it with a temp spoke until the new one comes.


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## andyaa (Mar 5, 2008)

I finally took my bike to the shop for the loose spoke problem. They hadn't heard of any service bulletins on Bontrager wheels for 08 Madones but they did know what to do to fix the problem. They trued the wheel, tensioned the spokes and added spoke freeze. I assume this will fix the problem for good. If not they told me to bring it back. They fixed it while I waited.


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## bigjohnson54 (May 31, 2005)

I never have liked the race lites I just put my mavic ksyrium sl 3 wheels on and have had no problems. I rode just a little over 3200 miles last year and they are as true as ever, and I stayed close to 200lbs last summer, they are a great wheel, except in heavy cross winds I don't think I have 200 miles on the race lites. I should probably put them on Ebay


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## quickfeet18 (Mar 2, 2007)

I don't think that anyone can get the actual service bulletin because it was never made public. Pm for details if you have questions.


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

Well since this thread is resurrected. 

I ended up cracking a rim on my rear '08 RXL, this was a bit ago, and my LBS handled the warranty, no problems, had a new wheel in a couple of days. It was even the same color scheme as the original.

quickfeet do you have service manuals for the Bonty wheels? Before I rode the replacement I took tensions so I would know about where they should be. Don't have enough miles on it though (< 2000) to know how it is going.

zac


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## quickfeet18 (Mar 2, 2007)

I have the service manual for the older bontrager wheels but they are tensioned the same way.


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

I do too, but I am not sure about the tensioning as the 05 wheel design was DS 1x and NDS radial and the 08 redesign is both DS & NDS 1x. I had heard that that pulling spokes where going to be redone on the new wheels, but have no new/detailed info on that.


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## JoeyBuck (Apr 2, 2008)

Just for a update, my LBS also got me a new wheel at no charge and 1,000 miles later it is still straight and true. They also put a bit of Spoke Freeze on each spoke for insurance. I am a happy guy.

I also recorded the spoke tensions for the wheel before I rode it and so far, nothing has dramatically changed.


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