# You will get nothing and like it- Astana to enforce Conty's contract



## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

http://www.velonews.com/article/96670/astana-intends-to-enforce-contador-s-contract

They say no transfer is possible and that (snicker) Conty will be the unquestioned leader. Yeah, cause Vino's known for that since his T-mobile days. Remember him attacking and being brought back by Jan and the boys back in the day. . . Good times.


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## teoteoteo (Sep 8, 2002)

I didn't think they'd let him loose. If nothing else they've set the bar high for the buyout offers that are still likely to come their way.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

> "We are surprised to read that many other teams have reportedly shown their intention to engage our Tour winner when he remains under contract. A transfer is not negotiable and we will honor the signed contract. We look forward to more victories from Alberto in 2010."


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/astana-reconfirms-contadors-role-for-2010

I wonder if Astana have deluded themselves into thinking that they can get Vino into the TdF if Conty is stuck on the team still. After Vino's shots at ASO I wouldn't count on that.


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## rt1965 (Mar 9, 2009)

Can someone please explain? I thought that the contracts were between the riders and Johan.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

rt1965 said:


> Can someone please explain? I thought that the contracts were between the riders and Johan.


That was never the case, it was simply wishful thinking on the part of Lance fans who thought they could get out of the team if it went under.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2009)

I'm curious if all of the problems Astana's riders had getting paid earlier this season might play into AC's hand on this. I would think it might give him some room to say they defaulted on the contract if he was one of the riders that wasn't paid on time.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

SilasCL said:


> That was never the case, it was simply wishful thinking on the part of Lance fans who thought they could get out of the team if it went under.


Well Conty might be able to-some hypothesizing by VeloNews:

http://www.velonews.com/article/96566/the-explainer---when-is-a-contract-not-a-contract



> But that complexity may also give Contador other options. It’s likely that Contador has at least considered the possibility of mounting a legal challenge, hoping to have the courts declare that contract void because of several factors.
> 
> First, Contador might be able to argue that the Astana team has, once again, undergone “large-scale changes in its activity management,” meaning that the fundamental conditions of his contract have changed. Contador did apparently sign a deal with the Kazakh Federation – and not with Bruyneel or his management company – but he did so with the understanding that he was riding for a team that would be operated by someone other than the Kazakh Federation in general and Vinokourov in particular.
> 
> Furthermore, Contador may be able to argue that this year’s financial difficulties – during which riders, staff and others were not paid in a timely fashion – constituted a breach of his contract. While on the surface that may appear to be the best strategy, Kazakh officials have recently suggested that they met the conditions of the contract itself and had only been withholding additional monies required because of Bruyneel’s accelerated spending. We’re not sure if that’s just posturing on their part or if there is some basis in fact. Either way, it will be one for the courts to decide, if that one’s raised.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

What's so suprising here? The team holds rights over him for one year. Everyone is making it seem like it's a fait accompli that Contador is free to pursue another team. Ultimately, Contador likely will be on another team, but Astana here is making it clear that whoever signs him is going to have to buyout the value of his final year, and probably a premium on top of that.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Marc said:


> Well Conty might be able to-some hypothesizing by VeloNews:
> 
> http://www.velonews.com/article/96566/the-explainer---when-is-a-contract-not-a-contract



Yep... 

"We are surprised to read that many other teams have reportedly shown their intention to engage our Tour winner when he remains under contract. A transfer is not negotiable and *we will honor the signed contract*. We look forward to more victories from Alberto in 2010."

I read this quote and snicker... These buffoons have already failed to honor the signed contract.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

SilasCL said:


> That was never the case, it was simply wishful thinking on the part of Lance fans who thought they could get out of the team if it went under.


Actually, no. It was always posted in the "where will Conty go next" context- Lance was under a one year deal. But thanks for working the ole Lance obsession into the thread, even if you're incorrect. 

It was a bit annoying to have one or two posters insist that they knew for a fact the contracts were with Johann. So digging should reveal the threads in question- it couldn't have been so long ago. 

For those still clinging to the Conty will be free to ride somewhere else next year- don't count on it. Without Conty on the team, a Vino lead Astana isn't getting into a single ASO run race next year.


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## rt1965 (Mar 9, 2009)

SilasCL said:


> That was never the case, it was simply wishful thinking on the part of Lance fans who thought they could get out of the team if it went under.


What does Lance have to do with this? Great answer! NOT!


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

Coolhand said:


> Actually, no. It was always posted in the "where will Conty go next" context- Lance was under a one year deal. But thanks for working the ole Lance obsession into the thread, even if you're incorrect.
> 
> It was a bit annoying to have one or two posters insist that they knew for a fact the contracts were with Johann. So digging should reveal the threads in question- it couldn't have been so long ago.
> 
> For those still clinging to the Conty will be free to ride somewhere else next year- don't count on it. Without Conty on the team, a Vino lead Astana isn't getting into a single ASO run race next year.


You're right, the context was about where Contador would go next.

I'd still make the case that it was Lance fans talking it up, saying Johan could sit on Contador's contract next year.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

rt1965 said:


> What does Lance have to do with this? Great answer! NOT!


See coolhand's response to learn how to make a slightly more civil reply.


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## Don Duende (Sep 13, 2007)

I feel sorry for AC. At best his career is side tracked, at worst derailed by thugs, politics and the ASO. Team Astana will not get an invitation to the TdF in 2010, much like 2008. Other races are up in the air since ASO owns most of them. His support team will be mainly Kazakh and Russian, further isolating the Spaniard. If he sues to exit his contract, he will be drinking poisoned water for the next year. If he has a mediocre year, his price goes down while those of his rivals, like Andy Schleck, go up. It is a shame, he is young, talented and has much potential. He probably is a great guy too, but the language barrier does not allow him to gain many English speaking fans.


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## rt1965 (Mar 9, 2009)

SilasCL said:


> See coolhand's response to learn how to make a slightly more civil reply.


You're kidding right? I'm sorry but why would you bring Lance into the equation? My question was strictly about AC, and your answer was far short of any sort of explanation.


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## NextTime (Oct 13, 2007)

kytyree said:


> I'm curious if all of the problems Astana's riders had getting paid earlier this season might play into AC's hand on this. I would think it might give him some room to say they defaulted on the contract if he was one of the riders that wasn't paid on time.


Interesting question. While no one can know with any degree of certainty what AC's rights are without actually reading his contract, one could surmise that, for a period of time at least, Astana was in default for failure to pay. However, it appears that the default was "cured" by Astana making good on its payment obligations. The question for AC is whether Astana's prior default gives rise to a termination right.

Just speculating here.


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## awesometown (May 23, 2005)

Don Duende said:


> I feel sorry for AC. At best his career is side tracked, at worst derailed by thugs, politics and the ASO. Team Astana will not get an invitation to the TdF in 2010, much like 2008. Other races are up in the air since ASO owns most of them. His support team will be mainly Kazakh and Russian, further isolating the Spaniard. If he sues to exit his contract, he will be drinking poisoned water for the next year. If he has a mediocre year, his price goes down while those of his rivals, like Andy Schleck, go up. It is a shame, he is young, talented and has much potential. He probably is a great guy too, but the language barrier does not allow him to gain many English speaking fans.


I think he's more concerned with the thuggish tactics of team management and DS he doesn't know as well.... I'm not sure how language enters into the equation.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

rt1965 said:


> You're kidding right? I'm sorry but why would you bring Lance into the equation? My question was strictly about AC, and your answer was far short of any sort of explanation.


Explanation: Your belief that the contracts were through Johan is incorrect.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

Don Duende said:


> I feel sorry for AC. At best his career is side tracked, at worst derailed by thugs, politics and the ASO. Team Astana will not get an invitation to the TdF in 2010, much like 2008. Other races are up in the air since ASO owns most of them. His support team will be mainly Kazakh and Russian, further isolating the Spaniard. If he sues to exit his contract, he will be drinking poisoned water for the next year. If he has a mediocre year, his price goes down while those of his rivals, like Andy Schleck, go up. It is a shame, he is young, talented and has much potential. He probably is a great guy too, but the language barrier does not allow him to gain many English speaking fans.


I wouldn't assume that Astana is poison to ASO.

The invited Kloden this year, after firing Clerc last year.

Maybe their stance on such issues is softening.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

NextTime said:


> Interesting question. While no one can know with any degree of certainty what AC's rights are without actually reading his contract, one could surmise that, for a period of time at least, Astana was in default for failure to pay. However, it appears that the default was "cured" by Astana making good on its payment obligations. The question for AC is whether Astana's prior default gives rise to a termination right.
> 
> Just speculating here.


The story of default was unclear then and is unclear now. Certain riders said they had been paid in full, and if Contador was then I don't think he would have any grounds for getting out of his contract. Who knows though.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

If I were Contador I'd be worried about waking up beside a dead and bloody Trek - these Kazakh guys are tough negotiators...


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

While Contador may be under contract for 2010, his contract may be covered bu EU law. If so I think that there is an actual formula for a buy out. In which case Astana will be unable to put a premium on his services over the legal maximum. 

At any rate Astana with Contador & Vinokourov will be another nightmare for Contador. Without him they'll be excluded by ASO. They need him more than he needs them.

On the breach of contract, he may have shot himself in the foot by staying as that could be construed as acceptance that there was no actual breach.


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

SilasCL said:


> I wouldn't assume that Astana is poison to ASO.
> 
> The invited Kloden this year, after firing Clerc last year.
> 
> Maybe their stance on such issues is softening.


Vino is poison to ASO.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

SilasCL said:


> You're right, the context was about where Contador would go next.
> 
> I'd still make the case that it was Lance fans talking it up, saying Johan could sit on Contador's contract next year.


Not sure why a Lance supporter would want them together. They clearly don't get along. Whether you prefer one or the other, it is clear that they both will do better on separate teams. 

Although if Conty is stuck with Vino for a year, any drama he faced this year will pale in comparison. Just ask Jan and the T-Mobile how loyal Vino was. Now add a team built for him and basically run by him.
Not good times. . .


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

ultimobici said:


> While Contador may be under contract for 2010, his contract may be covered bu EU law. If so I think that there is an actual formula for a buy out. In which case Astana will be unable to put a premium on his services over the legal maximum.
> 
> At any rate Astana with Contador & Vinokourov will be another nightmare for Contador. Without him they'll be excluded by ASO. They need him more than he needs them.
> 
> On the breach of contract, he may have shot himself in the foot by staying as that could be construed as acceptance that there was no actual breach.


And it may be covered by Kazakh law, as that who holds the license and where the contracts are from (which would explain the confidence of the team). Any litigation will obviously be dragged out as long as possible by Astana so they can use Conty's name to get race starts for Vino.


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## iamnotfilip (Jul 9, 2007)

So you're saying Alberto may be the official leader, while most of the team won't be working for him really and he'll have to put up with politics and possibly isolation... so what's new?

Maybe he needs another challenge, he won this year's tour with minutes to spare. Maybe being on a team that is not a top-notch TTT will make next year's tour interesting. It's a lot easier to win when you have a good team working for you, and let's face it, if Alberto had a half decent team working all out for him, there'd be no question as to who would win. I say make his life as difficult as possible, let's see if he can still win it. That's the only way to make the overall competition interesting.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Coolhand said:


> And it may be covered by Kazakh law, as that who holds the license and where the contracts are from (which would explain the confidence of the team). Any litigation will obviously be dragged out as long as possible by Astana so they can use Conty's name to get race starts for Vino.


Very true. But as his employment is predominantly European based that may be irrelevant.


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## pdh777 (Oct 7, 2005)

Wasn't the reason Astana was not invited to the tour in 08 due to Vino's cheating in 07?
Therefore hasn't the team already been penalized by ASO?


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

SilasCL said:


> I wouldn't assume that Astana is poison to ASO.
> 
> The invited Kloden this year, after firing Clerc last year.
> 
> Maybe their stance on such issues is softening.


The Vino/Kash version of it is. Remember Vino ran his mouth about ASO a few months back. I am sure they have not forgotten.

As for softening- ask Fuji-Servetto about that.


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

pdh777 said:


> Wasn't the reason Astana was not invited to the tour in 08 due to Vino's cheating in 07?
> Therefore hasn't the team already been penalized by ASO?


Pretend you held a BBQ for some work acquaintances and one dude was trash talking about you at YOUR party, stealing other people's food, and generally being a total d-bag. You didn't invite him the next year. The following year he couldn't make it. Would you invite him this year?


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## Tugboat (Jul 17, 2006)

pdh777 said:


> Wasn't the reason Astana was not invited to the tour in 08 due to Vino's cheating in 07?
> Therefore hasn't the team already been penalized by ASO?


The team maybe... the rider not yet. Astana may be at the Tour but you can be pretty sure that the ASO requests that Vino is not one of the 9 riders. That'll leave Contador as the "undisputed" team leader (for that race anyway).


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## ti-triodes (Aug 14, 2006)

Tugboat said:


> The team maybe... the rider not yet. Astana may be at the Tour but you can be pretty sure that the ASO requests that Vino is not one of the 9 riders. That'll leave Contador as the "undisputed" team leader (for that race anyway).




I'm starting to think Contador is missing Johan and Lance already.....


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

ti-triodes said:


> I'm starting to think Contador is missing Johan and Lance already.....


Not if CdE get him. Fingers crossed he can extricate himself from his contract at Astana.


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## jpick915 (May 7, 2006)

I feel sorry for the guy. This is perhaps the worst possible outcome for him. I would like to see him free of his Astana overlords, but if they hold him to his contract, this could be worse than anything he "experienced" this past season. Personally, I was hoping he would transfer over to Garmin, but the CdE would makes more sense. I just didn't see him racing for a Vino led Astana next season.

Then again, maybe it is just a smokescreen from the Khazaks looking for a higher buy out price from all of Conti's potential suitors.


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## Tugboat (Jul 17, 2006)

Contador must be thinking that Astana's changing from a team monopolised by one egotistical geriatric toddler in 2009 to another in 2010.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

jpick915 said:


> Then again, maybe it is just a smokescreen from the Khazaks looking for a higher buy out price from all of Conti's potential suitors.


Maybe a way to get a good chunk of next year's budget from someone else?!


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

ultimobici said:


> Maybe a way to get a good chunk of next year's budget from someone else?!


What's good a budget if you can't get into any decent races? Without Conty they certainly won't get into the TdF or any ASO run races. Maybe the Giro, but even that is uncertain after this year.


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

Coolhand said:


> What's good a budget if you can't get into any decent races? Without Conty they certainly won't get into the TdF or any ASO run races. Maybe the Giro, but even that is uncertain after this year.


Even with Conty they might have trouble getting into the tour. That team is hosed with the nonpayment stuff and Vino's return.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

gh1 said:


> Even with Conty they might have trouble getting into the tour. That team is hosed with the nonpayment stuff and Vino's return.


I agree with you, but without him what do you think their chances are?


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## turbogrover (Jan 1, 2006)

iliveonnitro said:


> Pretend you held a BBQ for some work acquaintances and one dude was trash talking about you at YOUR party, stealing other people's food, and generally being a total d-bag. You didn't invite him the next year. The following year he couldn't make it. Would you invite him this year?


Hey, that's a pretty good analogy!
Mine usually include clowns, Baywatch, and cheese, so no one ever gets what I'm saying.


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