# Betsy!



## Chris-X (Aug 4, 2011)

5 Questions With Betsy Andreu | Bicycling Magazine


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

That's a great interview. Thanks for posting the link.


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

MarkS said:


> That's a great interview. Thanks for posting the link.


I'm bumping this up. It has gotten pushed down in the list of threads given the events of last night with Lance Armstrong. The interview really is worth reading.


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## Fogdweller (Mar 26, 2004)

Always admired her. She's a feisty one for sure.


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## mmoose (Apr 2, 2004)

Good piece. Reminds us that there are people, of many sorts, involved in this. While some may say "let them all dope and racing will be more spectacular..." It's not that simple.

There is a big difference between a friend asking you not to tell the truth...and a egomaniac threatening to destroy your livelyhood if you do tell the truth.


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

mmoose said:


> Good piece. Reminds us that there are people, of many sorts, involved in this. While some may say "let them all dope and racing will be more spectacular..." It's not that simple.
> 
> There is a big difference between a friend asking you not to tell the truth...and a egomaniac threatening to destroy your livelyhood if you do tell the truth.


The truth may set you free, but truth telling often comes with great cost. As a lawyer, I have been in more than one deposition where I _know _that the witness is lying. It amazes me the people who take lightly a oath to tell the truth, especially when telling the truth may cause some difficulty for them. I admire greatly those people like Betsy who take seriously an oath and tell the truth even when it hurts them.

My hat also goes off to Frankie. 

_It hasn't been easy for us. As much as Frankie would've liked for me to keep quiet at times, he respected me enough to let me be me. I do feel terrible that it's affected his work in cycling, so I have curbed the volume and intensity somewhat. But I'm grateful that Frankie never expected me to not be who I am throughout this journey._


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

telling the truth takes great integrity, conviction, character, and a strong moral compass. This is even more true when you know you can just easily get away by not telling it.

It will take some time before all the Lance worshipers and idolators to get over their denials and see LA as the biggest fraud in the history of sports.

I feel that the biggest victims in this LA story are all the cancer survivors that was inspired and helped by LA. I can imagine that a lot of these folks will have a difficult time dealing with the shattering of a hero figure that in some cases probably inspired them to live. Very sad. I can't deny that LA has helped a lot of cancer patients. But....


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

What happens when you tell the truth




> What's the upside been going up against Lance? To be publicly and
> privately portrayed as an ugly, obese, jealous, obsessed, hateful,
> crazed *****? (And really, so what if I were fat and ugly—would that
> preclude me from speaking honestly?) We've dealt firsthand with very
> ...


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

I'm just thinking, this whole storyline of Lance Armstrong has all the elemental complexities of these recent famous busts:

- dotcom bust
- Bernie Madoff
- Enron, Worldcom
- fraudulent accounting of many big name companies listed on the stock market
- housing bubble, and the fraud from all the big investment banking houses pushing to make this bubble

they were myths created, protected, and kept alive,.. by the same people.. for the same people.. to great financial gains.

Armstrong was definitely a bad character, but he isn't the first and won't be the last.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

She sounds like a bitter B _ _ _ _!


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

DIRT BOY said:


> She sounds like a bitter B _ _ _ _!


Real class, you forgot to call her fat and ugly like Armstrong did.

Whatever you may think of the Armstrong deal, vilifying someone who under court subpena told the truth rather than lie is shameful.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

DIRT BOY said:


> She sounds like a bitter B _ _ _ _!


Total class there.


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## Chris-X (Aug 4, 2011)

aclinjury said:


> telling the truth takes great integrity, conviction, character, and a strong moral compass. This is even more true when you know you can just easily get away by not telling it.
> 
> It will take some time before all the Lance worshipers and idolators to get over their denials and see LA as the biggest fraud in the history of sports.
> 
> *I feel that the biggest victims in this LA story are all the cancer survivors that was inspired and helped by LA. * I can imagine that a lot of these folks will have a difficult time dealing with the shattering of a hero figure that in some cases probably inspired them to live. Very sad. I can't deny that LA has helped a lot of cancer patients. But....





aclinjury said:


> I'm just thinking, this whole storyline of Lance Armstrong has all the *elemental complexities of these recent famous busts*:
> 
> - dotcom bust
> - Bernie Madoff
> ...


Well said.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

She needs to move on with her life.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

jorgy said:


> She needs to move on with her life.


She should have lied to USADA and the Feds?


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## wtfbbq (Apr 5, 2012)

jorgy said:


> She needs to move on with her life.





Doctor Falsetti said:


> She should have lied to USADA and the Feds?


Yeah, I wonder where that came from too. She is being asked questions by a journalist about a rather big episode in her life and she's supposed to move on? Oh no, Mr journalist, I just don't want to talk about it anymore. Screw that. Preach it sister.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Real class, you forgot to call her fat and ugly like Armstrong did.
> 
> Whatever you may think of the Armstrong deal, vilifying someone who under court subpena told the truth rather than lie is shameful.


 Who does ANYONE know if she is telling the truth or lying? Same with Lance?
People don't lie under subpoenas? 

Yes, I have seen her interviews and will stand by my comment. Maybe she should stay out of things.

Oh, I personally like lance, but he CAN be a major D--K.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

DIRT BOY said:


> Oh, I personally like lance, but he CAN be a major D--K.


well that explains the fanboy squirming being seen these days.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

DIRT BOY said:


> Who does ANYONE know if she is telling the truth or lying? Same with Lance?
> People don't lie under subpoenas?
> 
> Yes, I have seen her interviews and will stand by my comment. Maybe she should stay out of things.
> ...


Because beyond Frankie and Betsy one of the other persons in the room has essentially admitted in a private conversation to lying when she said she didn't hear Armstrong admit to taking drugs.

It's kind of hard to explain that away, like the Frankie/Vaughters email exchange.

Plus the motivation is clearly there to lie in order to protect Armstrong, what were Betsy and especially Frankie's motivation to lie?


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

What's the "hospital room incident"?


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

DIRT BOY said:


> Who does ANYONE know if she is telling the truth or lying? Same with Lance?
> People don't lie under subpoenas?
> 
> Yes, I have seen her interviews and will stand by my comment. Maybe she should stay out of things.
> ...


Stephanie lied under oath, but not Betsy. 

At this point it is obvious who is lying here. People continue to smear Betsy for telling the truth......and wonder why she will not "Let it go"?


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

jlandry said:


> What's the "hospital room incident"?



Frankie Andreu Responds To Armstrong's Ban | Cyclingnews.com


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

I have to comment here with regard to Betsy needing to "move on" and "let it go." 

I have a more relativist view of right and wrong than some people here. On the other hand, I have been the target of a smear campaign myself. I was involved in a combat incident when I was in the military. Some information began to trickle out that made a couple of people in my company (leaders) look pretty bad and the process had begun of decorating me for my actions in combat. I was wounded in the combat and hit in the head very hard and I lost much of my memory of the incident for a while. When I began to remember things, I actually asked one of the leaders in private about something that I recalled happening, trying to understand the sequence of events. Realizing that I remembered the events of that night, this person immediately went from singing my praises to launching a smear campaign so full of lies and so severe that I actually lost friends over it. More memories came to me in time and I have never admitted out loud some of the things that I remember (things that could have had negative career implications for the leaders who were against me) but because they knew that I remembered them, they made up lies to discredit me. Like Armstrong's prestige and power, people holding higher rank in the military will always win and will always have their word taken over the word of someone of lower rank, no matter how ridiculous it is. 

The feeling of not doing anything wrong, merely telling the truth, and having some powerful sinister person destroy one's reputation is one of the most painful and psychologically trying things that someone can experience, and this is coming from someone who has been shot in combat. It is really easy for someone on the sidelines to say that Betsy just needs to "move on" but being the victim of a smear campaign is a horrible thing that few people have experienced. Give her some slack.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Plus the motivation is clearly there to lie in order to protect Armstrong, what were Betsy and especially Frankie's motivation to lie?


Because she blames lance for Frankie getting busted for EPO? That's enough for me:

His wife Betsy stated she blamed Armstrong for Frankie taking EPO, saying he "_didn’t use EPO for himself, because as a domestique, he was never going to win that race. It was for Lance."_

Again, we will NEVER fully know the truth until Lance does come clean. Everyone has a stake in this game and is out to CYA!

Lance should be sanctioned for 2 yrs and have the 1999 tour stripped. But because he won't face up to a witch hunt, USADA wants blood.

Let's see what ASO does about his titles, along with the UCI. ASO is calling the shots here folks on the ACUTAL titles! Not the USADA, WADA or the UCI. They all need ASO and the TDF for cycling to flourish.

But maybe this entire mess will truly gets everyone on the same page and have a better governing body for the sport.

Maybe they should be like the NFL, one of the most successful sports in thew world, and just stop caring about doping and just give the fans and sponsors and ENTERTAINING SPORT.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

MarkS said:


> Frankie Andreu Responds To Armstrong's Ban | Cyclingnews.com



I guess the last laugh goes to the Andreus.

Frankie will go on about life and work in the pro-cycling scene, Armstrong does not have that option. 

While he (Armstrong) was fun to watch race, and I take no satisfaction in seeing him go down, Caligulas usually get theirs in the end. And let's face it, he was a Caligula in the Peloton as well as out.

Good for the Andreus. I like that Betsy. She's got chops.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

DIRT BOY said:


> His wife Betsy stated she blamed Armstrong for Frankie taking EPO, saying he "_didn’t use EPO for himself, because as a domestique, he was never going to win that race. It was for Lance."_


Riiiiiiight..because that fat paycheck Andreu was getting wasn't motivation to dope. Looks like Frankie is unable to man up in the marriage if Betsy really thinks Frankie just did it for Lance.

I don't understand why she doesn't just move on. It's been years since she testified.

And the whole hospital conference room admitting doping thing is very strange to me. I cannot imagine discussing my medical situation with a room full of people. When you've had cancer doctors ask all sorts of intimate questions. I can't imagine a doctor questioning a patient in a conference room with a bunch of people. Very, very strange.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

jorgy said:


> Riiiiiiight..because that fat paycheck Andreu was getting wasn't motivation to dope. Looks like Frankie is unable to man up in the marriage if Betsy really thinks Frankie just did it for Lance.
> 
> I don't understand why she doesn't just move on. It's been years since she testified.
> 
> And the whole hospital conference room admitting doping thing is very strange to me. I cannot imagine discussing my medical situation with a room full of people. When you've had cancer doctors ask all sorts of intimate questions. I can't imagine a doctor questioning a patient in a conference room with a bunch of people. Very, very strange.


This is a new one. Instead of claiming that Betsy lied to get back at Lance, claim the whole incident didn't happen, because it would have been odd. Apparently defending Lance now demands the invention of alternate realities, which his defenders don't seem to have a problem with.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

SilasCL said:


> This is a new one. Instead of claiming that Betsy lied to get back at Lance, claim the whole incident didn't happen, because it would have been odd. Apparently defending Lance now demands the invention of alternate realities, which his defenders don't seem to have a problem with.


I'm not defending Lance. I'm simply pointing out I think Betsy's claims are odd. I haven't kept up with all the claims out there, so I don't know if it's a "new one." And I do think it's kinda pathetic the way she continues to milk attention from her testimony that was years and years ago.

I guess that's the Lance haters tactic--Claim everyone who points out USADA's process is strange must be a Lance apologist creating "alternate realities."


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## Chris-X (Aug 4, 2011)

jorgy said:


> I'm not defending Lance. I'm simply pointing out I think Betsy's claims are odd. I haven't kept up with all the claims out there, so I don't know if it's a "new one." And I do think it's kinda pathetic the way she continues to milk attention from her testimony that was years and years ago.
> 
> I guess that's the Lance haters tactic--Claim everyone who points out USADA's process is strange must be a Lance apologist creating "alternate realities."


LA lost his job and lost his credentials. There's a process WHICH HE AGREED TO AND WAS WRITTEN IN PART BY HIS AGENT and this process helps give credibility to the sport and by extension Armstrong himself.

So you acknowledge clean cycling is in almost complete doubt because of people like Armstrong and you decry this but you want to keep a toothless system in place which has no power to enforce rules?

Armstrong has conclusively demonstrated that he is a complete fraud and in turn cycling has NO CREDIBILITY.

Give it a frigging break. Any other job where you have so much $hit against you, you're gone. There's ABSOLUTELY NO recourse. There's no due process. 

Half of the U.S.A. has codified this kind of bs with "right to work" states and I don't see you continually railing against that crap.

What happened when Armstrong was given the opportunity to face his accusers?

He punted! 

Now please. Go away with your nonsense.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

jorgy said:


> I'm not defending Lance. I'm simply pointing out I think Betsy's claims are odd. I haven't kept up with all the claims out there, so I don't know if it's a "new one." And I do think it's kinda pathetic the way she continues to milk attention from her testimony that was years and years ago.
> 
> I guess that's the Lance haters tactic--Claim everyone who points out USADA's process is strange must be a Lance apologist creating "alternate realities."


In terms of strange things that happen at hospitals, apparently no one in Armstrong's course of treatment ever asked him what medications he took. And yet you and countless others take him at his word.

Bicileaks: Full Armstrong SCA Testimony | NY Velocity - New York bike racing culture, news and events


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

SilasCL said:


> In terms of strange things that happen at hospitals, apparently no one in Armstrong's course of treatment ever asked him what medications he took. And yet you and countless others take him at his word.
> 
> Bicileaks: Full Armstrong SCA Testimony | NY Velocity - New York bike racing culture, news and events


Well, I've had cancer treatment and other than a checkbox question about whether I used illicit drugs I was only asked about medications I was currently taking. I was never asked for a laundry list of drugs, prescription or not prescription, I've taken in the past.

And I was treated at MD Anderson, the nation's top cancer hospital.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

jorgy said:


> Well, I've had cancer treatment and other than a checkbox question about whether I used illicit drugs I was only asked about medications I was currently taking. .


which one of the two boxes would a person using illicit drugs check? assuming the person wants a successful treatment of course.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

den bakker said:


> which one of the two boxes would a person using illicit drugs check? assuming the person wants a successful treatment of course.


I don't think it matters whether the box is checked or not. It didn't matter for me; I admitted to using some illegal drugs in my long-ago youth. Now, if I was an active heroin user, no idea.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

jorgy said:


> I don't think it matters whether the box is checked or not. It didn't matter for me; I admitted to using some illegal drugs in my long-ago youth. Now, if I was an active heroin user, no idea.


well that would make your case rather irrelevant for a person that is currently using a swath of drugs, some also used on cancer patients, no?


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

SilasCL said:


> This is a new one. Instead of claiming that Betsy lied to get back at Lance, claim the whole incident didn't happen, because it would have been odd. Apparently defending Lance now demands the invention of alternate realities, which his defenders don't seem to have a problem with.


don't forget a certain amount of not being a man in the relationship.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

den bakker said:


> well that would make your case rather irrelevant for a person that is currently using a swath of drugs, some also used on cancer patients, no?


????

I don't understand the point of your response above. You specifically asked about the illicit drug box I mentioned, and I was just trying to answer your question using my experience. 

If you go up one post, I stated "Well, I've had cancer treatment and other than a checkbox question about whether I used illicit drugs I was only asked about medications I was currently taking. I was never asked for a laundry list of drugs, prescription or not prescription, I've taken in the past."

You then asked "which one of the two boxes would a person using illicit drugs check? assuming the person wants a successful treatment of course." And I answered.

When the doctors ask about current drugs they are primarily looking for things like Coumadin that could cause you to bleed out or drugs that could interfere with anesthesia if a procedure is going to be done. They're not playing detective about what "caused" your cancer as far as past, irrelevant medications.

It seems like you're implying Lance was continuing to use PEDs whilst in the midst of cancer treatment. Which is just crazy talk, IMO.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

I hear you brother. From kids, we are told to tell the truth, told that if we tell the truth then nothing will hurt us. But in reality, more often than not, the "truth" usually is being told by those with money. Sadly, the world as we live in operates in money. With enough money, you can get the mass to buy into whatever you wish. In the military, it's not so much the money, but more about the power, aka higher ranks trump lower.

People should be commending people like Betsy for standing up. Should commend the USADA for rooting out an obvious cancer in sport. Yet, the Lance idolators don't see it as such. But I'll bet in due time, a lot of these Lance idolators will completely abandon their hero, and may be come to hate him outright.

You know what they say. First comes denial, then realization, acceptance,... then you change your view. Always the case.




thechriswebb said:


> I have to comment here with regard to Betsy needing to "move on" and "let it go."
> 
> I have a more relativist view of right and wrong than some people here. On the other hand, I have been the target of a smear campaign myself. I was involved in a combat incident when I was in the military. Some information began to trickle out that made a couple of people in my company (leaders) look pretty bad and the process had begun of decorating me for my actions in combat. I was wounded in the combat and hit in the head very hard and I lost much of my memory of the incident for a while. When I began to remember things, I actually asked one of the leaders in private about something that I recalled happening, trying to understand the sequence of events. Realizing that I remembered the events of that night, this person immediately went from singing my praises to launching a smear campaign so full of lies and so severe that I actually lost friends over it. More memories came to me in time and I have never admitted out loud some of the things that I remember (things that could have had negative career implications for the leaders who were against me) but because they knew that I remembered them, they made up lies to discredit me. Like Armstrong's prestige and power, people holding higher rank in the military will always win and will always have their word taken over the word of someone of lower rank, no matter how ridiculous it is.
> 
> The feeling of not doing anything wrong, merely telling the truth, and having some powerful sinister person destroy one's reputation is one of the most painful and psychologically trying things that someone can experience, and this is coming from someone who has been shot in combat. It is really easy for someone on the sidelines to say that Betsy just needs to "move on" but being the victim of a smear campaign is a horrible thing that few people have experienced. Give her some slack.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

jorgy said:


> ????
> 
> When the doctors ask about current drugs they are primarily looking for things like Coumadin that could cause you to bleed out or drugs that could interfere with anesthesia if a procedure is going to be done. They're not playing detective about what "caused" your cancer as far as past, irrelevant medications.


steroid, testosterone, EPO. I would have assumed the docs would be interested in that when it is very recent use, but what do I know.
Well I do know I never suggested they were looking for the cause of cancer.


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## olr1 (Apr 2, 2005)

Loving the whole circus, the whole soap opera, the whole saga.

I've moved from being a fanboy from the days when fanboys weren't even invented, through the respect for that tough Texan kid who said he'd never sit in a break and not work, through the awe at his team, through the 'wait a minute', through the 'he won, again?', through the 'I wonder...', through the 'What does EPO mean?', right up to 'It's about time he got his'.

In all that time, the person who has most impressed me, the person who showed a cynical, self serving world what it means to be true to what you believe in, the person who shines out is Betsy Andreu.

Go girl.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

So when does Betsy write her book: How I took down LA and turned cycling upside-down. LOL! 
A book will come and they will profit off this BIG TIME for poor little Frankie taking EPO.


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## olr1 (Apr 2, 2005)

_A book will come and he will profit off this BIG TIME_ 

I think LA already did, only now it gets moved to the Fiction aisle....


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

DIRT BOY said:


> So when does Betsy write her book: How I took down LA and turned cycling upside-down. LOL!
> A book will come and they will profit off this BIG TIME for poor little Frankie taking EPO.


Yea, poor little Frankie only doped for Lance. He never rode for himself. I guess that's why Frankie finished 4th in the 1996 Oly RR when Lance finished 12th.

http://articles.latimes.com/1996-08-01/news/ss-30169_1_tour-dupont

_Andreu, the only American to complete the Tour de France this year, had the best showing of the five U.S. riders. Gregory Randolph was 74th, George Hincapie was 76th and Steve Hegg was 93rd.

Instead of being spent from the 2,400-mile Tour de France, Andreu was primed. Wednesday's race essentially was like an easy stage in the famous race, and the one-day racers, not the endurance specialists, were the standouts.
...

"I said before the race that the winner would come from the Tour de France, because when you come out of the Tour de France either you're flying or you're dead," Andreu said.

"The Tour brings you up to a fitness that you can't get any other way. You're at a plateau, you rest, and then you hit a higher plateau. All I've done the last two weeks is lie around and watch TV and ride for a couple of hours."_


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Funny how people wonder why Betsy doesn't just give it up.....then smear her. While some here would fold easily when challenged Betsy doesn't. Good for her. 

Stay tuned. Betsy will be fully vindicated on the hospital room. People certainly lied about that day, but Betsy was not one of them


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

DIRT BOY said:


> Because she blames lance for Frankie getting busted for EPO? That's enough for me:
> 
> His wife Betsy stated she blamed Armstrong for Frankie taking EPO, saying he "_didn’t use EPO for himself, because as a domestique, he was never going to win that race. It was for Lance."_


And so exactly why did one of the other people in the room admit in a private conversation that she lied about not hearing LA discuss the drugs he had taken with a doc?

Kind of shoots your whole theory about why they would lie out of the water when you have someone else with a clear motivation to lie in public, admitting to the lie in private and confirming the Betsy/Frankie side of the story.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

SilasCL said:


> Bicileaks: Full Armstrong SCA Testimony | NY Velocity - New York bike racing culture, news and events


Interesting. Thanks for posting the link.


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## PinarelloGirl (Aug 26, 2012)

*Vindication has been a long time coming*

In addition to Betsy, others have been vindicated, too. 

Christophe Bassons and Emma O' Reilly for starters. See the recent article in the Guardian UK to learn more if you're not familiar with the facts.

Finally vindication. It's been a long time coming.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Real class, you forgot to call her fat and ugly like Armstrong did.


Would it be more classy if I said I dig her looks and I''d like to take her for a "spin"?


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

SilasCL said:


> In terms of strange things that happen at hospitals, apparently no one in Armstrong's course of treatment ever asked him what medications he took. And yet you and countless others take him at his word.
> 
> Bicileaks: Full Armstrong SCA Testimony | NY Velocity - New York bike racing culture, news and events


I just watched some more of the videos.Wow. I never knew what a sexist Lance is. :frown2:


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