# New Madone on the horizon?



## bootsie_cat (Jan 7, 2005)

Is a new Madone going to come out at Tour De France time?
I ask this because I am considering an Emonda- but don't want to pull the trigger if a new Madone is coming soon.
It seems like Cervelo and Canyon have upped the ante considerably in the aero road bike arena.
I would think Trek would want to release a better full aero bike with direct mount brakes (in the correct spot) and also an aero bar/stem that allowed for a hidden junction box?


----------



## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

See this thread from January.


----------



## bootsie_cat (Jan 7, 2005)

Thanks but that thread does not really say anything.


----------



## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

bootsie_cat said:


> Thanks but that thread does not really say anything.


It asks the very same question you ask now, and nobody knows anything more now than they did three months ago. Trek already announced their team bikes for 2015. Do you believe the answers will be any different?


----------



## Corey213 (Jan 11, 2013)

What are you riding now?


----------



## cooleshal (Aug 25, 2010)

I started the "January thread" as I was in a similar position to you. I am confident Trek will release a new aero road bike, they would be foolish not t. However, when this is likely to happen remains unknown so consequently i ended up buying a Felt AR FRD much to the dismay of local trek dealer. 

I would also like to see a Track bike from Trek, I don't know why they don't have one in their portfolio of products. Even Felt has one, a very nice one, but very expensive. I won't hold my breath on this one though as I imagine Trek's development team are challenged already having to address the lack of aero bike and extension of disc brakes accross their range - will disc brakes be introduced to the Emonda and new aero bike. 

If you want/need a bike for this summer go with the Emonda, if you can wait until next year it may be worthwhile as I bet the Emonda will have option for disc brakes, if that's your thing, and you may also see a new aero bike. 

Just my thoughts.


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

ibericb said:


> It asks the very same question you ask now, and nobody knows anything more now than they did three months ago. Trek already announced their team bikes for 2015. Do you believe the answers will be any different?


That's on Trek's own site so they won't really say if there's a new Madone coming. But they don't say there isn't one coming either...just that certain riders will use a 'Madone'. Keep your eyes peeled in early July. 

Not that I've heard anything in particular.


----------



## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> Keep your eyes peeled in early July.
> 
> Not that I've heard anything in particular.


Yep, that's kind of what I was thinking back in the January thread.


----------



## jtsk (Mar 6, 2002)

Trek's current high end road bikes are the Domane, Emonda and Madone. According to my local Trek dealer a few weeks ago, 2015 is the last year for the Madone. The Emonda is replacing the Madone and in 2016 they will only have the Emonda and Domane framesets.


----------



## bootsie_cat (Jan 7, 2005)

Funny- I ended up buying a Cervelo S5.
But I would rather have a Trek, and I believe they could take technology from the Speed Concept and make a total winner of an aero road bike.


----------



## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

bootsie_cat said:


> Funny- I ended up buying a Cervelo S5.
> But I would rather have a Trek, and I believe they could take technology from the Speed Concept and make a total winner of an aero road bike.


They probably could do a lot of things. The question is return on investment, and who would buy that vs. buying an Emonda? It's about selling bikes to the public and running a profitable business.


----------



## nigel91 (May 16, 2012)

ibericb said:


> They probably could do a lot of things. The question is return on investment, and who would buy that vs. buying an Emonda? It's about selling bikes to the public and running a profitable business.


But from a racing point of view don't you think they need an aero bike for the sprinters? Super light weight like the Emonda isn't key for them and neither is cobble comfort as per the Domane - and also for the big guys who sit on the front of the peloton for hours with their nose in the wind looking after the little climbers....

I like to think I climb well so have the SSL because it's light but realistically I spend lots of time on the flats between hills or descending so an aero bike is probably better overall. This is why I have c35 wheels as they are an awesome all rounder, much better than the c24 set I used to run.

So I think they need an aero bike, and we'll see a new one, whether it's called Madone or Jens or whatever!!


----------



## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

nigel91 said:


> But from a racing point of view don't you think they need an aero bike for the sprinters? ...


From the limited view of what would be ideal in the pro-peloton? Sure. But that doesn't mean it would make good business sense, and Trek will run with good business sense. If they believe that a new aero bike for road racing will make good money, then they will probably do it.


----------



## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

Winning races will help to sell bikes. I think a certain Texan may have sold a few Treks. The public will buy "the next thing"...especially if it wins. The comfort of the the Domane sells and is further aided by the fact Cancellara rides a custom one. Any idea why some may want to ride a Venge? Cav may have sold one or two.

If Trek could put a winning rider on an aero frame, sales would take care of themselves.


----------



## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Blue CheeseHead said:


> If Trek could put a winning rider on an aero frame, sales would take care of themselves.


Yeah, at the expense of either Domane or Emonda sales. And that's the issue. Trek made an investment in the Emonda. They probably want to see that pay off well before they introduce another model. After a year in, the Madone is basically gone - only the 7 is still available. So it's a new one in, an old one out.

BTW - Cancellara's Emonda isn't "custom". You can buy the same frameset as the Limited Domane Koppenberg Edition. It is, in all reality, an Emonda frame with the Iso Speed de-couplers added.


----------



## Chader09 (Jun 10, 2014)

ibericb said:


> BTW - Cancellara's Emonda isn't "custom". You can buy the same frameset as the Limited Domane Koppenberg Edition. It is, in all reality, an Emonda frame with the Iso Speed de-couplers added.


That's not really true. The Domane predates the Emonda by 3 years and is different in several key details.

Domane KE vs Emonda SLR 
600 series vs 700 series OCLV
standard brakes vs direct mount
Iso speed fork vs superlight
Very different cable ports for routing

Not to mention the major frame design differences requires very different tooling. The Emonda was more of a clean slate, light weight redesign with minimal influence from the Domane.


----------



## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Chader09 said:


> That's not really true. The Domane predates the Emonda by 3 years and is different in several key details.
> 
> Domane KE vs Emonda SLR
> 600 series vs 700 series OCLV
> ...


You missed the point entirely. The Trek Factory Team Domanes aren't the standard retail Domane. They are ALL the same as the Koppenberg Edition. That's basically an Emonda H1 frame with Iso Speed added. Go check out the geometry specs of those two, and then compare that to any version of standard Domane you wish. Here's one press report from last year.

The reason the Limited Domane Koppenberg Edition exists is because of UCI rules that require anything used on the bike be available to the buying public at large within 9 months of it being used.


----------



## kookieCANADA (Jan 20, 2011)

ibericb said:


> You missed the point entirely. The Trek Factory Team Domanes aren't the standard retail Domane. They are ALL the same as the Koppenberg Edition. That's basically an Emonda H1 frame with Iso Speed added. Go check out the geometry specs of those two, and then compare that to any version of standard Domane you wish. Here's one press report from last year.
> 
> The reason the Limited Domane Koppenberg Edition exists is because of UCI rules that require anything used on the bike be available to the buying public at large within 9 months of it being used.


I think the Emonda and Domane KE are different framesets.

The downtube, seatstays, chainstays and forks are different, only the geometry is the same as the Emonda H1.


----------



## Chader09 (Jun 10, 2014)

ibericb said:


> You missed the point entirely. The Trek Factory Team Domanes aren't the standard retail Domane. They are ALL the same as the Koppenberg Edition. That's basically an Emonda H1 frame with Iso Speed added. Go check out the geometry specs of those two, and then compare that to any version of standard Domane you wish. Here's one press report from last year.
> 
> The reason the Limited Domane Koppenberg Edition exists is because of UCI rules that require anything used on the bike be available to the buying public at large within 9 months of it being used.


I didn't miss anything. They may share the H1 geo, but they have very different frame builds.

You can't claim the DKE is a Emonda with Isospeed because the Emonda came around well after the DKE. 

The DKE is a race geo version of the standard Domane Endurance geo, nothing more nor does it have anything to do with the Emonda.


----------



## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

kookieCANADA said:


> I think the Emonda and Domane KE are different framesets.
> 
> The downtube, seatstays, chainstays and forks are different, only the geometry is the same as the Emonda H1.


Obviously they are different framesets because of the Iso Speed system design, which includes seat tube, top tube, seat stays, and forks too. The Domane Koppenberg is also different from the standard endurance Domane frameset. But the geometry of the H1 Emonda and Domane Koppenberg are the same, which is different from the Madone 7 series. The Domane KE was designed to the exact same geometry and fit as the Emonda. The frameset differences are largely attributable to the Iso Speed features.

The Trek factory team members are using 3 bikes, varied by rider preference, to use as they desire -- a 7 Series Madone, a Domane KE, and an Emonda. 

So back to the aero question - will they launch a new bike to replace the Madone? I say maybe, if they sense enough interest in it to make money selling them to the public without seriously cannibalizing either Domane or Emonda sales.


----------



## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Chader09 said:


> ... the Emonda came around well after the DKE


The Domane KE was launched in the 2014 model year. When was the Emonda launched?

edit added - prior to the Domane KE there was the Domane Classics Edition, which was the race geometry used by Cancellara and one other (I forgot who) in 2013. The KE replaced that more broadly for the team, and in 2015 is being riden by Alafaci, Cancellara, Devolder, Irizar, Nizzolo*, Popovych, Rast, Roulston, Sergent, Stuyven, Van Poppel B*, Van Poppel D*, Coledan*, and Steegmans*.

As far as an aero bike goes, the Madone is being retained by Beppu, Felline, Silvestre*, Vandwalle, and Watson.

*designated sprinter


----------



## Chader09 (Jun 10, 2014)

ibericb said:


> The Domane KE was launched in the 2014 model year. * When was the Emonda launched?*
> 
> edit added - prior to the Domane KE there was the Domane Classics Edition, which was the race geometry used by Cancellara and one other (I forgot who) in 2013. The KE replaced that more broadly for the team...


Yes, they changed the names but always had an H1 race version of the Domane to meet the rules as you stated, therefore...

The Domane race versions came years before the Emonda (2015 model year bike, BTW). So, the Domane could not have been modeled after the Emonda as you claimed since it didn't come to existence until after the Domane.

If the Domane H1 race versions stole geo from anything, it would be the 2012 Madones (pre-aero version). That is very similar to what is on the Emonda. 

All the H1 geos are more aggressive than the H2 and especially the Endurance geo which is really not surprising.


----------



## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Chader09 said:


> Yes, they changed the names but always had an H1 race version of the Domane to meet the rules as you stated, therefore...
> 
> The Domane race versions came years before the Emonda (2015 model year bike, BTW). So, the Domane could not have been modeled after the Emonda as you claimed since it didn't come to existence until after the Domane.


Now you're grasping. I never said the Domane was modeled after the Emonda. Clearly it wasn't, and the history of the launches is long well known. That is limited to the Domane KE, which is the retail version (frameset only) for the Team Domane's since they were launched in April last year. The geometries of the DKE and the Emonda H1 are exactly the same. The Madone is different.

The Classics edition, which was an H1 fit bike, p1 only, was replaced by the DKE, which was done after the Emonda was launched. The Classics was the race geo version of the Domane before the before the Emonda was launched.

For this model year the Madone line has been largely stripped of carbon versions. You're basically down to the 7 series, and that's it. Will Trek come out with a new aero bike, or will they stick with the Emonda only? That's the question.


----------



## Chader09 (Jun 10, 2014)

Not grasping at all. 



ibericb said:


> BTW - Cancellara's Emonda isn't "custom". You can buy the same frameset as the Limited Domane Koppenberg Edition. *It is, in all reality, an Emonda frame with the Iso Speed de-couplers added.*


This is your statement that prompted my responses clarifying the timing and differences. I'm done with this OT trip.

Regarding the Madone, I won't be surprised if they release a new one next season. I don't think the NEED an aero bike, but it seems odd that they wouldn't offer a line since their major competition all have one.


----------



## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

And that statement is true and accurate, but I should have said Iso Speed _system_ rather than _de-couplers_, because Iso Speed is more than just de-couplers. The DKE followed the Emonda.

Before Trek launches a new aero design they really need to have someone who wins in a big way so they have a basis for claiming superiority of their product. Otherwise it will just fizzle. Loosing Cancellara for the Classics this year was probably a big loss (we'll never actually know), as he was off to a decent start. But then he's an outspoken "Domane" fan. Felline, who is one of the remaining named Madone riders, is looking good early.


----------



## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Here's the question in my mind -- with UCI trying disc brakes later this year, and continuing next year, how will Trek respond? Will they produce new disc frames/forks for the existing lineup (Madone, Emonda and Domane Koppenberg Ed.), or will they use that as an opportunity to introduce a new road performance bike with disc brakes? Either way, they'll be tooling up a new frame and fork set.


----------



## spokewrench (Feb 6, 2005)

Getting back to the topic at hand, I heard from a reliable source that there is a new Madone scheduled to come out soon. Supposed to still be aero and borrowing tech from the Speed Concept line.


----------



## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

ibericb said:


> And that statement is true and accurate,..


The Emonda is a complely different frameset from all of the Domane series. The KE Domane share the same geometry it also does with all Madones from 08 up till the aero version. With only minor tweaks that geometry dates back to the 1st OCLV bikes. If you were to see an Emonda next to any of the Domane series bikes it would be plain to you how different they are.


----------



## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

davidka said:


> The Emonda is a complely different frameset from all of the Domane series.


Except for the Domane KE



> The KE Domane share the same geometry it also does with all Madones from 08 up till the aero version. With only minor tweaks that geometry dates back to the 1st OCLV bikes. If you were to see an Emonda next to any of the Domane series bikes it would be plain to you how different they are.


You must have a reading comprehension problem, because that's exactly what I said several times. The DKE is uniquely different from the rest of the Domane line. It is the same frame used by the Trek Factory Team under the Domane label, and it is very different in geometry from the remainder of the other Domanes. The DKE and Emonda geometries are identical in every dimension for the same frame size, and they are not the same as the same model year Madone, but very close. I've seen all of them side-by-side, and you're right, they are very different, except for the DKE and the Emonda in the same frame size.


----------



## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

ibericb said:


> Except for the Domane KE
> .


So if two frames have the same geometry, they are the same?

Next time you see them side by side, maybe ride them too. They are very different. They have different layups, different shapes, different forks. Geometry and raw material are the only things they share in common.


----------



## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

davidka said:


> So if two frames have the same geometry, they are the same?
> 
> Next time you see them side by side, maybe ride them too. They are very different. They have different layups, different shapes, different forks. Geometry and raw material are the only things they share in common.


Which was previouosly pointed out.


----------



## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

ibericb said:


> It is, in all reality, an Emonda frame with the Iso Speed de-couplers added.


The why do you keep defending the above? I'm just trying to help you with your understanding of the models.

Like others here, I'm interested in seeing what Trek brings out next. I don't see them sitting out of the aero segment. The Speed Concept TT bike was pretty groundbreaking.

As for sales cannibalization, they would rather cannibalize their own sales then have another brand do it. It's unrealistic to expect a platform to sell well for more than 3 years.


----------



## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

davidka said:


> The why do you keep defending the above? I'm just trying to help you with your understanding of the models.


I assure you, I fully understand the differences in each of the models quite well. You've added nothing of merit. BTW - if you read through the thread you will also note I clarified my initial oversimplification about Iso Speed being more than just the decoupler. There is little real practical difference in the DKE and the Emonda other than Iso Speed technology (which, as previously noted, necessarily alters several tube shapes and the fork while retaining the exact same geometry including wheelbase), and depending on which version of Emonda you focus the specific version of Trek's OCLV used (which is mostly about resultant frame weight).



> Like others here, I'm interested in seeing what Trek brings out next. I don't see them sitting out of the aero segment. The Speed Concept TT bike was pretty groundbreaking.
> 
> As for sales cannibalization, they would rather cannibalize their own sales then have another brand do it. It's unrealistic to expect a platform to sell well for more than 3 years.


I have no clue what Trek will do. As I've noted both in this thread and the January thread, they may indeed bring forth a new aero model. There are good reasons for them to do so. But I'm not going to play the the guessing game of whether they will or won't, and I surely wouldn't place any bets one way or the other. They will listen to their team riders, and they will look at the market prospects. If they believe at the end of the day an additional model will boost their net bottom line better than the other investment options, then they will probably do it. But your logic about cannibalizing their own sales makes little sense if you truly believe an aero new road race bike is distinct from the lightweight Emonda or the endurance Domane, which you and others seem to maintain. In the end Trek will bring forth another model when they believe they can use that as a springboard to profitably increase their total share of the market. To that end a new aero model probably won't gain them much in share if the Trek Factory Team can't show some better results that they can attach to a new model, as they did with the Domane and Madone. So far this year it' hasn't been looking very positive.


----------



## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

Emonda and Madone are different bikes. Emonda when purchasing top of the line, is more about light weight and climbing while Madone has some aero touches and is more of an all around racer. Personally, If I were looking at Trek, I'd go Madone, but to be frank, Trek no longer does it for me, I think there are better choices in this day and age.

Anything Trek does will most likely be evolutionary, so start with wither you prefer the current Madone, Emonda or even Domane. Also it seems to me that Trek has been de-emphasizing Madone, it could be replaced with an entirely new model at some point(maybe its the Lance thing, but this bike is heavily associated with Armstrong)


----------



## identifiler (Dec 24, 2005)

this must have been the most an&l thread I ever read in my life, go bike peopel. Yes there will be a new Madone, yest it will push aero boundaries. Yes it will be a bike only for orthodontists. No it will not help you win more races if you have a proper bike.


----------



## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Oh yeah.


----------



## the_tank (Feb 5, 2007)

New Madone frame approved by UCI and teaser from Trek. 

On a different note, I guess the resale value of my 2015 Madone 6 just took a plunge (bummer too... need to liquidate it).


----------



## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

The UCI Approved list updated las Friday now shows a "Madone 9 Series MY2016", approved January 19, 2015. Interestingly, it can't be found even by a Goggle search of Trek's website.


----------



## P1Painter (Oct 3, 2010)

ibericb said:


> The UCI Approved list updated las Friday now shows a "Madone 9 Series MY2016", approved January 19, 2015..


It sure is awesome!:cornut:


----------



## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Scott F02
Trek Madone
Spec Venge

any other aero road bikes coming out in the coming weeks?

so excite.


----------



## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Wonder if we'll see it in the TdF?


----------



## kookieCANADA (Jan 20, 2011)

Something is going to be announced at the end of this month:

Bear witness - Trek Bicycle

Could be a the new Madone. Some of the riders quotes state how fast 'this' bike is.


----------



## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

Weird. All those pictures are of mtb's.


----------



## kookieCANADA (Jan 20, 2011)

Yeah I noticed that too and a quote from Emily Batty. There was one black/while picture of a rider on a road bike.

Watching the Flash video (before clicking the "See it first" button) A couple of the drawings and what looked like a finished frame looked like an aero road bike (a couple of MTBs too) and an aero seatpost (not like Cervelo's but definitely not round like the current ones).


----------



## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

MMsRepBike said:


> Scott F02
> Trek Madone
> Spec Venge
> 
> ...


Giant will officially announce it's new TCR and Felt will also release it's new redesigned F-Series race bike in the near future (those are my guesses anyway). Oh and Cannondale is supposed to be releasing a redesigned SuperSix Evo and a new Caad.


----------



## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

Just don't tell me a new bmc tm01 is coming because I'm buying one. Risky since the current frame is going on year 3/4 ?


----------



## niteflyer (Dec 12, 2004)




----------



## makeitso (Sep 20, 2008)

The front end looks awfully similar to the new DiamondBack Podium.


----------



## niteflyer (Dec 12, 2004)

I'm thinking Specialized Venge


----------



## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Where are the cables?


----------



## 5DII (Aug 5, 2013)




----------



## TFR (Oct 22, 2005)

I just realized that the marketing folks have done a great job to get us buying carbon. 
I just replaced a 6 series MAdone (retail price $3,600 for frameset a couple yrs ago) with an EMONDA ALR (their new "best" aluminum bike wich sells for just under 1 thous) Frameset weighs about 5 ounces more.
Rides and handles very well. The ride is different from the MAdone 6 series carbon, but not anything bad. Both are great bikes.


----------



## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

davidka said:


> Where are the cables?


Probably some proprietary center pull brakes and of course Di2.


----------



## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Center pull brakes, Di2 battery in the downtube, super hidden cables around the headset... Loads of pictures here.


----------



## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Dan Gerous said:


> Center pull brakes, Di2 battery in the downtube, super hidden cables around the headset... Loads of pictures here.


Cool!

The fact that it's a 9-series suggests to me that it will be offered only in the high-end team version, and associated team sizes. Is that to be the future of the Madone?


----------



## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

ibericb said:


> Cool!
> 
> The fact that it's a 9-series suggests to me that it will be offered only in the high-end team version, and associated team sizes. Is that to be the future of the Madone?


You refer to the UCI approved list? If yes, I wouldn't read too much of that, companies often don't bother to put through the approval process bikes their teams wont ride, they only have the UCI approve the bikes they'll have their sponsored athlete race on. Cannondale for exemple, only had the UCI approve their SuperSix Evo Hi-Mod framesets, not the regular, lower graded carbon Evo and not the lighter higher-end Nano carbon Evo either... So if only a 9-series is listed, it doesn't mean that's the only model consumers will be able to buy...

But... being a super aero, super integrated (that cable routing must be a PITA), I doubt they'll make it in entry-level models. I would expect different builds at various prices though, not just the Team issue Di2...


----------



## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Dan Gerous said:


> You refer to the UCI approved list? If yes,


No, that's not what I was referring to. I know that well enough.



> But... being a super aero, super integrated (that cable routing must be a PITA), I doubt they'll make it in entry-level models. I would expect different builds at various prices though, not just the Team issue Di2...


That is what I was pondering. So, for me at least, the question remains, what will be the future of the Madone other than the 9 series? Will there be an "affordable" aero road race frame?


----------



## Mcfarton (May 23, 2014)

i believe that there will be other series but not 1-9 and the 9 series will be the only one made in the USA.


----------



## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

It's growing on me. I like the brakes. The trap door in the down tube is meh, not a huge fan, I understand the need though. Pretty neat bike.


----------



## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

It looks kind of cool. I will wait to see what the weight and the features are before I make the final call. I'm not sure it is as revolutionary as Trek claims it is, but it's interesting. It looks a bit like a mix between a Pinarello F8 and a Specialized Venge. The idea of isospeed being on a aero road bike with all the cables tucked away is intriguing. I am also curious about whether there will be a disc option??? My guess is yes. 

Spotted: New Trek Madone - VeloNews.com

Bear witness - Trek Bicycle

2016 Trek Madone - What we know, what we expect | Cyclingnews.com


----------



## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

ibericb said:


> No, that's not what I was referring to. I know that well enough.
> 
> 
> 
> That is what I was pondering. So, for me at least, the question remains, what will be the future of the Madone other than the 9 series? Will there be an "affordable" aero road race frame?


I am very confident that it is going to be available at different price points (5 Series on up). You also will have the ability to customize by buying Project One and buy parts you want a la carte via Bontrager. Trek is pretty consistent with that. The only reason why this year's Madone had a limited release is because they were about to drop the 2016.


----------



## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Rashadabd said:


> I am very confident that it is going to be available at different price points (5 Series on up). You also will have the ability to customize by buying Project One and buy parts you want a la carte via Bontrager. Trek is pretty consistent with that. The only reason why this year's Madone had a limited release is because they were about to drop the 2016.


Looking forward to seeing the lineup.


----------



## kookieCANADA (Jan 20, 2011)

Rashadabd said:


> I am very confident that it is going to be available at different price points (5 Series on up). You also will have the ability to customize by buying Project One and buy parts you want a la carte via Bontrager. Trek is pretty consistent with that. The only reason why this year's Madone had a limited release is because they were about to drop the 2016.


I think too there will be a 5 series (no 6 series) using 500 OCLV with Ultegra/Ultegra Di2 components.

Not sure if that once piece stem/handlebar can be replaced with conventional stem and handlebars, that would help bring the price down.


----------



## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

kookieCANADA said:


> I think too there will be a 5 series (no 6 series) using 500 OCLV with Ultegra/Ultegra Di2 components.
> 
> Not sure if that once piece stem/handlebar can be replaced with conventional stem and handlebars, that would help bring the price down.


An interesting side that nobody has commented on is, if Trek is keeping with their series number = OCLV composite grade history, the 9 series will reflect a new, advanced composite system. If that's true, I'd sure like to know more details about that, but that no doubt will be kept very confidential. If it is that advanced it will probably be another one that is export controlled (like the OCLV 700 composite system), and be available only on frames built in the U.S.


----------



## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

Here is where the marketing takes over. If you read the cervelo articles on composite design, all this stuff of oclv grades, specialized 11r, pinarello high mod toray etc, is all the same. Every manufacturer uses a combination of different modulus in their layup to achieve the design goals. So I guess this oclv 9 is just saying the same thing.


----------



## kookieCANADA (Jan 20, 2011)

ibericb said:


> An interesting side that nobody has commented on is, if Trek is keeping with their series number = OCLV composite grade history, the 9 series will reflect a new, advanced composite system. If that's true, I'd sure like to know more details about that, but that no doubt will be kept very confidential. If it is that advanced it will probably be another one that is export controlled (like the OCLV 700 composite system), and be available only on frames built in the U.S.


If that is the case, the 9 series will be one MEGA expensive bike (assuming the 900 OCLV is even more light/stiffer than the 700 OCLV). There's a lot of carbon fiber being used to build the new Madone.

If not they could do similar to the Emonda with just "Trek Madone 9 SL" and "Trek Madone 9 SLR" and continue using 500/700.


----------



## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

kookieCANADA said:


> I think too there will be a 5 series (no 6 series) using 500 OCLV with Ultegra/Ultegra Di2 components.
> 
> Not sure if that once piece stem/handlebar can be replaced with conventional stem and handlebars, that would help bring the price down.


I am with ya on this. My gut says the cheaper bikes (5 Series if we start there or 4 Series if they do what they did with the Domane) come with a standard stem and handlebar set-up while the more expensive bikes get all of the bells and whistles. If there is a 4 Series, it may have external cable routing. That is pretty much the pattern Trek follows every single time.


----------



## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

kookieCANADA said:


> If that is the case, the 9 series will be one MEGA expensive bike (assuming the 900 OCLV is even more light/stiffer than the 700 OCLV). There's a lot of carbon fiber being used to build the new Madone.
> 
> If not they could do similar to the Emonda with just "Trek Madone 9 SL" and "Trek Madone 9 SLR" and continue using 500/700.


All we know is that Trek has a new 9-Series Madone, MY2016 on the UCI approved list. It's the first time I've seen "9-Series" used by Trek, so I'm just extrapolating based on Trek's recent history using the "X-Series", that matches with an OCLV grade. Right now it looks like we'll have to wait until the 30th for the announcement.


----------



## taodemon (Mar 17, 2014)

I've been waiting to see the new venge but this Madone has definitely caught my eye as a possible next bike. Pretty excited to see how things pan out as we get more info on both.


----------



## krtassoc (Sep 23, 2005)

Close-up of the newTrek Madone Nine Series 'Center-Pull' brake: https://cyclepine.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/2.jpg


----------



## nigel91 (May 16, 2012)

I think in a left view on the French website it looked like there were holes for mechanical dérailleur cables near the headset.

If so a 5 series version with 500 carbon, Ultegra mechanical, RL bars & stem, but using the same brake mounts (probably same shape calipers, but a cheaper version) might be the real world big seller, similar to an Emonda SL.

Probably see the Domane replacement (when Trek decide it's time) as the first mainstream all disc model, the timing might tie in nicely with the UCI (pushed by Shimano etc) making discs available in pro racing. Endurance bikes by their nature get ridden in crappier weather than your average weekend warrior's Emonda or Madone so discs would be a good fit there. Interesting times ahead!!


----------



## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

More pics:

Trek Madone 9 2016 sous toutes les coutures - Matos vélo, actualités vélo de route et tests de matériel cyclisme


----------



## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

Rashadabd said:


> More pics:
> 
> Trek Madone 9 2016 sous toutes les coutures - Matos vélo, actualités vélo de route et tests de matériel cyclisme


Havent been a big Trek fan, but good lord they hit for the fence on this one.... not sure I've ever seen so many new approaches/updates at once.
It seems like some of it will work well, and other things might not, but they get huge extra points for ambition.
That's just plain bold.


----------



## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

thumper8888 said:


> Havent been a big Trek fan, but good lord they hit for the fence on this one.... not sure I've ever seen so many new approaches/updates at once.
> It seems like some of it will work well, and other things might not, but they get huge extra points for ambition.
> That's just plain bold.


Their hand was forced a bit due to the new Cervelo S3 and S5, the Pinarello F8, Fuji Transonic, and Canyon Aeroroad all arriving on the scene. I am sure they are aware that a new Specialized Venge, Scott Foil, Felt F Series, and Cannnondale Supersix Evo are about to be released as well. I am impressed with their response thus far too though.


----------



## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Here's the VeloNews article. While they had no more information than has been shared already in this thread, here is there take on a couple of the new features:

_
There is a new, one-piece bar and stem as well, almost certainly from Trek’s component partner, Bontrager. The handlebar must work in harmony with the frame, as there are no cables or wires visible anywhere in this photo. We would expect that the brake cables enter the bars, and then into the integrated stem. From there, it’s a mystery as to how the brake cables wind their way to the calipers.

The other big change is the presence of a new version of the IsoSpeed decoupler that should smooth out the ride on the new Madone — a common complaint with aero road bikes. A promo video is running on Trek’s website along with teaser sketches of what we now know to be this Madone 9. It’s possible to make out what looks like a version of the IsoSpeed system adapted for the aero tube shapes of this new frame in those sketches.
_​


----------



## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

Rashadabd said:


> Their hand was forced a bit due to the new Cervelo S3 and S5, the Pinarello F8, Fuji Transonic, and Canyon Aeroroad all arriving on the scene. I am sure they are aware that a new Specialized Venge, Scott Foil, Felt F Series, and Cannnondale Supersix Evo are about to be released as well. I am impressed with their response thus far too though.


Yeah, they had to have known all this was more or less in the pipeline. Still, they went well beyond a even a mid-grade update... its a sea change. Thing looks really expensive and complicated to develop and build. 
I think the F8 is going to come out looking the most behind the curve of this bunch. The S3 is similarly straightforward, but its offering major bng for the buck as its selling point. The Aeroad is more innovative and has a nice price point too, but lacks US availability... though it seems to be coming soon, company keeps dropping hints...
Specialized better have something pretty extraordinary coming, because if the Madone's wind tunnel testing shows numbers close to or better than the S5 then Trek will have set the bar really, really high.


----------



## kookieCANADA (Jan 20, 2011)

There is a picture of what could be the next Scott Foil now in the Scott forum.


----------



## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

With a seat tube that thick front to back, it's hard for me to imagine an isospeed decoupler doing anything, doesn't look like it could flex much to me


----------



## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Srode said:


> With a seat tube that thick front to back, it's hard for me to imagine an isospeed decoupler doing anything, doesn't look like it could flex much to me


Whether it actually does anything or not, you can bet the advertising and pro racer quotes will hail it as a "a game changer".


----------



## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Srode said:


> With a seat tube that thick front to back, it's hard for me to imagine an isospeed decoupler doing anything, doesn't look like it could flex much to me


It is supposed to be a new decoupler that was designed specifically for this bike. We'll see in a week or two.


----------



## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Gallopin blasts Trek Factory riders for Dauphiné stage 6 performance | Cyclingnews.com

I guess it's not inspiring grand performances out of the team.


----------



## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

MMsRepBike said:


> Gallopin blasts Trek Factory riders for Dauphiné stage 6 performance | Cyclingnews.com
> 
> I guess it's not inspiring grand performances out of the team.


That's one of Trek's issues right now - they don't have a champion on which to hang their innovatons. While we can quibble over the significance about any of the technologies that the major production bicycle OEMs introduce, winning races sells bikes.


----------



## nigel91 (May 16, 2012)

Interesting that Mollema & Zoidl (who you would think are climbers) are riding it in the Dauphine - you would think the Emonda would be more their thing. Maybe Trek want to show it's the bike for everything - kinda like the Madone before Domane & Emonda arrived...

If the seat post is very slim but 'long' front to rear then a maybe the ISOspeed gives it a bit of flex so it's ok to ride for 5 hours (unlike a time trial bike).

Anyways it's not helping the boys much in France at the moment!!


----------



## nigel91 (May 16, 2012)

Actually Zoidl is on an Emonda on stage 7 - not surprising with 5 cat 1 climbs, light is good!

I can't wait to see the new bike in the flesh, I think it looks stunning!!


----------



## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

nigel91 said:


> Actually Zoidl is on an Emonda on stage 7 - not surprising with 5 cat 1 climbs, light is good!
> 
> I can't wait to see the new bike in the flesh, I think it looks stunning!!


They're still bound to the minimum weight rule. With carbon tubulars and top of the line group sets, they're all at or under weight. Aero stuff makes sense on climbing days too.


----------



## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

davidka said:


> They're still bound to the minimum weight rule. With carbon tubulars and top of the line group sets, they're all at or under weight. Aero stuff makes sense on climbing days too.


Keep in mind that it is a minimum weight rule and not a maximum weight rule, so you can go over it, but not under. Despite the benefits of aerodymics, which are minimized to a degree on days with heavy climbing, a number of teams will have guys switching to all around bikes on those days. Giant Alpecin also has a number of guys that switch back and forth as well for example. 

Aero bikes have come a a long ways though and some guys do ride them on climbing days and pretty much all year long (Degenkolb and Kristoff and a number of Orica Greenedge guys fall in this category). Cancellara rides an endurance bike most of the year, so it really just comes down to personal preference. I think you will see more aero bikes more often in the future, but it's not the benefits of aero on climbs that is getting them there, in my opinion, it's how comfortable they are with the bike and the descents they are thinking about.


----------



## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Rashadabd said:


> Keep in mind that it is a minimum weight rule and not a maximum weight rule, so you can go over it, but not under. Despite the benefits of aerodymics, which are minimized to a degree on days with heavy climbing, a number of teams will have guys switching to all around bikes on those days.


This is kind of my point. The aero bikes get down to minimum weight fairly easily today. Unless there is zero flat or shallow grade terrain, then there's always an advantage in aerodynamics. There is much energy to be saved in the 100's of miles that aren't pointing steeply uphill, leaving the rider fresher for the several miles that do go up.


----------



## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

davidka said:


> This is kind of my point. The aero bikes get down to minimum weight fairly easily today. Unless there is zero flat or shallow grade terrain, then there's always an advantage in aerodynamics. There is much energy to be saved in the 100's of miles that aren't pointing steeply uphill, leaving the rider fresher for the several miles that do go up.


Maybe, but I'm saying don't get your hopes up that the whole pro peloton will all be riding aero road bikes soon. Many of your GC contenders currently choose and will continue to choose smooth riding featherweight climbing bikes/ all arounders due to their handling and ride characteristics. Froome is probably the only GC guy that rides an aero bike full-time and his bike is more mid-aero in style than full aero, but that's where all aero bikes are going if you ask me. Arredondo will occassionally ride one, but guys like Contador, Nibali, Quintana, Talansky, Tejay VG, all still ride more traditional bikes. Heck, Cannondale doesn't even make an aero bike and how many stages and races have guys on their bikes won (even this year and last year). Don't get me wrong, aerodynamics is real and relevant and many sprinters and classics guys will choose them, but the impact it has in real world racing is also overhyped and the byproduct of clever marketing to some degree. The proof is in the pudding and there were a lot of aero bikes in the pro peloton last year, but the vast majority of races and stages were likely won by guys on traditional bikes (though some of those are more aero than they would have been 5 or so years ago).


----------



## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

I don't think we'll see them change overnight. Even Specialized's new marketing launch shows that their helmet and skin suit makes up 60% of the package's drag benefit. That's why more and more riders are using skin suits & aero helmets and almost all use some degree of aero wheel for most days. 

I'd bet most of the Trek GC team goes to this full time. It seems to have a version of ISO speed to address the comfort issues common to the type. With little to no weight penalty, why leave it on the rack?


----------



## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

davidka said:


> I don't think we'll see them change overnight. Even Specialized's new marketing launch shows that their helmet and skin suit makes up 60% of the package's drag benefit. That's why more and more riders are using skin suits & aero helmets and almost all use some degree of aero wheel for most days.
> 
> I'd bet most of the Trek GC team goes to this full time. It seems to have a version of ISO speed to address the comfort issues common to the type. With little to no weight penalty, why leave it on the rack?


I agree on the helmet and skinsuit, but doubt it on the bike. The Emonda is going to continue to be the GC bike for some time.


----------



## kookieCANADA (Jan 20, 2011)

Rashadabd said:


> I agree on the helmet and skinsuit, but doubt it on the bike. The Emonda is going to continue to be the GC bike for some time.


I agree. The GC guys are protected by their teammates as well as within the peleton. The design of the Emonda will be better for attacking and climbing/decending.


----------



## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

kookieCANADA said:


> I agree. The GC guys are protected by their teammates as well as within the peleton. The design of the Emonda will be better for attacking and climbing/decending.


The aero advantage is greater the higher the speeds. A skilled descender can use that to great effect.

Bauke Mollema is already riding the new Madone. That says a lot when you consider that the leaders are often the last to change. We'll see next month which direction they're going.


----------



## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

davidka said:


> The aero advantage is greater the higher the speeds. A skilled descender can use that to great effect.
> 
> Bauke Mollema is already riding the new Madone. That says a lot when you consider that the leaders are often the last to change. We'll see next month which direction they're going.


We actually won't be able to see until next year. Next month they will be promoting the bike so it will be everywhere. You probably won't be able to see who really chooses it until at least the Vuelta or next season.


----------



## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Rashadabd said:


> We actually won't be able to see until next year. Next month they will be promoting the bike so it will be everywhere. You probably won't be able to see who really chooses it until at least the Vuelta or next season.


Since these guys bounce around one team after another and continue to win on different bikes, they know better than anyone that it's not about the bike. What did all of those "free watts" do for Mollema? It's still primarily about the legs and lungs.


----------



## nhluhr (Sep 9, 2010)

Srode said:


> With a seat tube that thick front to back, it's hard for me to imagine an isospeed decoupler doing anything, doesn't look like it could flex much to me


You're right. Trek already figured this out though.


----------



## nhluhr (Sep 9, 2010)

MMsRepBike said:


> It's growing on me. I like the brakes. *The trap door in the down tube is meh*, not a huge fan, I understand the need though. Pretty neat bike.


That is where the barrel adjusters will be (the rear brake and the derailleurs for bikes not using Di2). Still, with the intense cable routing Trek is known for, I am thinking this frame will benefit more than most from Di2 over any mechanical drivetrain. The sharp bends forced in the derailleur cables at the head tube as well as the pretty rough routing Trek likes to use at the bottom bracket mean all the progress Shimano made with their 11spd mechanical groups shifting so well will be mitigated again.


----------

