# Sad day with Master light



## ciclisto (Nov 8, 2005)

As I was looking forward to a trip to the big city and a first hand look at a MXL 58' in LX4, but when I talked to the shop owner he actually talked me out of the frame saying it would deterioate in 2/3 years at the bottom bracket /seat tube interface. he showed me that the welds are not that substantial there. I weight 196lbs he thought this too heavy for this frame. So sad day I did not get it. He had lots of these but then showed me a DeRosa Avant carbon. Same price give or take. I can't believe this but I took his word he seemed honest and he lost a sale. I had the cash. Any opinions out there from fellow 196#fatties on this frame. ............he said this joint would fail!!
thanks, jac............Jacques in U.K. How are you if you see this!.


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## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

I doing well, thanks for asking. Don't have an opinion on it but you should post the shops name as others would appreciate knowing honest dealers such as this guy.


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## CLudlow (Sep 27, 2005)

*Huh? Do I read this right?*

You were looking at a Master x Light and you weigh 196 lbs. The bike shop said you are too heavy for the frame and would break the bottom bracket in 2-3 years? Did I get that right?

Well, I have a MxL and weigh just about that. My frame is from late 90's. Bottom bracket is good to go. This frame was made to handle heavier riders and/or those who can put a lot of stress on the frame. My take is he really didn't want to sell the frame or wanted to move you into a more expensive frame. Just my .02 cents. 

By the way, I also ride a Merckx MX Leader. The Colnago MxL and the Merckx MX Leader are well know as "Clydesdale" rides.


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## ciclisto (Nov 8, 2005)

cludlow,
yes i was precise in my rendition of the day..I have a C-50 and an old steel bike from the 80''s. I had spoken to this owner and he was very high on the MXL"his favorite frame" hence the surprise when he talked me off of it. The frame he suggested a carbon DeRosa was only a few hundred more. I too thought the MXL was supposed to be a frame I would like> I explained that I liked a stiff frame and liked to climb. I was prepared to buy as he had the color and size and I know for a fact has had this frame for over a year, so it was dead inventory to him. He illustrated the weld at the BB where the seat tube entered and showed me some windowing there(holes) and said it would come apart and I would be unhappy with him. take it for what it is worth. I am 5'11" 196# and am fairly fit and ride daily. 25-50 miles. I would like some first hand info from owners like yourself as I was disappointed, and have been looking for something else, but thought I would get some honest feedback.


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## edmundjaques (Dec 29, 2005)

ciclisto said:


> As I was looking forward to a trip to the big city and a first hand look at a MXL 58' in LX4, but when I talked to the shop owner he actually talked me out of the frame saying it would deterioate in 2/3 years at the bottom bracket /seat tube interface. he showed me that the welds are not that substantial there. I weight 196lbs he thought this too heavy for this frame. So sad day I did not get it. He had lots of these but then showed me a DeRosa Avant carbon. Same price give or take. I can't believe this but I took his word he seemed honest and he lost a sale. I had the cash. Any opinions out there from fellow 196#fatties on this frame. ............he said this joint would fail!!
> thanks, jac............Jacques in U.K. How are you if you see this!.


Not sure if I'm Jacques from UK - suspect not - but I am Jaques from UK so pretty close. Strange too, I weigh 196 lbs. I haven't wrecked any bike yet. My MXL ( 2004) feels good enough for another 20 yrs. My Super (1986ish) still feels pretty sharp. My International (1986ish also) is perfect. My C50 ( yes, carbon of course) still squeakless after 10,000. miles (!) Ride the dealers MXL if poss. If it fits, buy it. Take a reasess in 20 yrs. time, it might need an upgrade by then. Keep any decent steel Colnago. Also ditto Merckx. Steel DeRosa probably as well. I'd be wary of anything carbon just yet - apart from C50 or Extreme Power.
PS So what if it degrades in 2-3 yrs. Buy something else/move on. Life is too short to worry about a bike (or ten) I intend to ride anything of possible interest and hang onto anything worth keeping - bikes are immense value for money. I can live without a Porsche.


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## gibson00 (Aug 7, 2006)

Isn't this a -lugged- steel frame?? What welds were visible???
The way you describe it, the shop owner didn't lose a sale, he convinced you to buy a frame from him for a few hundred dollars more!
I can't see how you would have any problems with the steel frame. And I've very rarely heard of any steel frame busting apart, regardless of rider weight. Not sure how 'honest' or smart this shop owner is....


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## ciclisto (Nov 8, 2005)

Yes you are the Jaques from U.K. who helped with the C-50 purchase, no regrets. I knew you were of similar"stone" and your analysis is spot on. I do not know his motivation in steering me off it. thank you again...........jac. 
OO gibson he showed me the inside of the BB and how little of the seat tube was captured by the lug. he seemed to think it would weaken here. jac


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## reddach (Oct 22, 2003)

I am 220lbs and have over 15000 miles on my MXL. I live in central Maine and the roads can really suck. The road I live on has not been paved in 10 years. State government is incompetent, but that another subject. My bike still performs like new and on a recent tear down and inspection everything appeared as new. I think your bike shop has some ulterior motives.


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## gibson00 (Aug 7, 2006)

reddach said:


> I am 220lbs and have over 15000 miles on my MXL. I live in central Maine and the roads can really suck. The road I live on has not been paved in 10 years. State government is incompetent, but that another subject. My bike still performs like new and on a recent tear down and inspection everything appeared as new. I think your bike shop has some ulterior motives.


How long have you lived in Maine? I remember doing the streaked mountain road race there (near either Auburn or Augusta, I think), nice race.


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## gun2head (Sep 3, 2006)

If you got a C-50, why a MXL?


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

I built up a Master Olympic which is basically a 93 MXL and over the past 10 days been riding it, so far no problems and I do weight a healthy 230 - will let you know if I ever break the bottom bracket (hell that will be worth the money I paid for it - bragging rights and all that). There is another steel model out there (can't remember the model name now) which is supossedly designed for the lighter rider (up to 165 or something like that) so maybe one of you (dealer or you) were confusing the two!


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## ciclisto (Nov 8, 2005)

no it is the newest MXL with columbus tubes, I think there is not a problem with the frame obviously, I just can't figure why unless the few hundred dollars was the reason. Anyway I found the same frame just came it to a dealer I bought a bike from, so I see no reason to deal with him anyway. I too thought it was supposedly a good long term keeper, and I want it for travel and as my daily ride, saving the C-50 for weekends. I can ride 360/yr, so they get lots of miles quickly., and I like steel but not everyday. thanks for the info.


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## reddach (Oct 22, 2003)

It was called the Technos and was said to have a 160lb. limit. Silly me though, was not aware of this and rode one for two years b4 the MXL.


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

MXL is a classic and very popular - I don't think you will ever see one lying around for too long and as they are steel with basically the same construction (bar B-stay) since 90's. They do hold their value pretty well so I don't think dealers would loose any sleep over having one in their shop - Carbon frames are a different story - new model every year and the old one 's price is slashed so I could see why a dealer would be keener to offload a newish carbon frame.


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## edmundjaques (Dec 29, 2005)

gun2head said:


> If you got a C-50, why a MXL?


Reasonable question but you could say got a C50 why anything else? Well, I have both. Believe me, they make a fabulous pair of bikes. Both brilliant yet intriguingly different.
I have a reasonable number of bikes - all good stuff. If really pushed I could live with just three - my C50, my MXL and trusty old ( 1960's) Hetchins Italia. However, I must say, I'm glad I'm not pushed.


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

have a 2003 colnago MXL,1200 miles a season +/-. i'm 200lbs no problems. great frame. if he had a defected one how come he hasn't sent it to distributor?


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## reddach (Oct 22, 2003)

Been here 55 years. Good area to ride 9 months of the year. Roads have really started to break up in the past six years . Highway budget, as a % of state speding is down more that 50%. For being the state with the highest per capita tax burden in the country that's very sad.


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

While researching buying a new bike last year i talked to a pretty well known framebuilder here in UK (NE) and he put me off using carbon rear stays saying that he would not recommend it for my weight (220) - at the time i was thinking of columbus triple butted tubing with their carve carbon rearstays and fork - maybe there is something to it given that we are talking about an MXL with rear stays!

Don't mean to hijack the thread but since on topic I weighed my MXL today and found it to be 21.75 lbs which suprised me a little as I expected to see something below 20. I have full DA including headset, pedals and hubs with open pros and its a size 59 - would be interested to know if anyone has hit 20 or lower with theirs.


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

toonraid said:


> Don't mean to hijack the thread but since on topic I weighed my MXL today and found it to be 21.75 lbs which suprised me a little as I expected to see something below 20. I have full DA including headset, pedals and hubs with open pros and its a size 59 - would be interested to know if anyone has hit 20 or lower with theirs.


Toonraid
Will be interested to see whether I can get below that mark.
My Master Olympic is a 60cm and as you know, I am building it up with SRAM Rival.
I also have a pair of American Classic CR420 wheels which are listed as weighing only about 1400g.
Hopefully my bar, stem, seatpost and saddle will arrive early this week so that I can get her finished and I will then post a weight.

So far it feels a reasonable weight and my estimate is that the bars etc will only add another 1500g or so.


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

Have you weighed the frame, the forks?


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

Nope.
Can do so fairly easily though.


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

toonraid
Realised that it was easier said than done to weigh just the frame and fork.
However, weight as pictured is 15.4lb.
Bikes is still missing bar, BB, saddle, cables, levers and chain.
Stem and seatpost will be swapped for others so weight will adjust slightly for these.


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

OK toon
Had some time to strip off those components and weigh just the frame and fork and came up with a weight of 6.2lb for my 60cm frame.


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

Wow great - didn't think it be that heavy tho - and that is without BB and heatset I take it? Did you weigh the forks too? BTW almost an exact copy of yours has come up (on ebay from a dutch bike trader i think). While on the subject of ebay a bike came up for sale today which is an exact copy of my first ever race road bike - a raleigh record in brilliant black with gold decals which I bought in 1980 for £100 at the tender age of 15, my first vehicle in life! I am going to see it tomorrow and hopefully bring it back home and after tidying it up do the same trip I used to do all those years ago - a 30 mile round trip from my boarding school to Oxford through the backroads of Oxfordshire followed by sunday rides from one ...ington to another ...ington (quite a few villages end with "ington"), what a trip that will be.


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

That weight is for frame, fork, headset (could not be assed removing it) and 2 cable stops.
So it may be 200g or so lighter than that.


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

Sounds like you have a busy couple of days ahead with the new bike.
Post some pics up when you get a chance.


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

What headset have u fitted?


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

toonraid said:


> What headset have u fitted?


The frame came with a Shimano STX fitted and it will stay there until something nicer comes along.
Sort of looking for a Campag, Stronglight, Ofmega or would even consider a Tange Levin?!?!?
Really have no idea when it comes to threaded 1" steerer headsets but these all look nice.
Obviously the Tange is the cheapest option out of these and from what I read they are a Japanese copy of the Record headset. I have read that they are decent quality to boot.


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

STX is nice and shiny, as is Dura Ace but campy headsets are a bit dull! I have an NOS campy Euclid which is the brightest of them all but no where to go.


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

I fitted Dura ace to go with the rest and its nice and shiny.


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## rdolson (Sep 2, 2003)

*Steel can be light...*

I posted a detailed build spec on my '06 (non B-Stay) 58cm MXL on the picture thread, page 9, post #7. It came in at 18.6 lbs complete as pictured.

I chose the MXL because 1) I love the steel feel, 2) at 190lbs I wanted a bike to be strong enough to take the weight, and everyone I spoke with and everything I read said the the MXL was the lightest, strongest steel there was on the market. 3) I wanted the '06 because I did not want the B-Stay, I wanted an all steel frame (Not to mention I have a thing for chromed seat/chain stays), 4) It's a Colnago.

I've got about 300 miles on her in the last few weeks and I think I'm in love, she far exceeds my wildest expectations. And the drooling looks of envy from other riders are worth every penny I spent on her. While over 3lbs lighter than my steel LeMond Alpe with Reynolds Ouzo fork, it is much stiffer when sprinting, yet softer over chip-n-seal roads.


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

Here is the spec on mine - I weighed it again and it came up 9kg exact (19.8 lbs), the difference is mainly down to size, fork and perhaps a little on saddle/bars/pedals I think. Not sure what I did wrong before when I weighed it - maybe had a full water bottle or the scales ($2 off ebay)!

Frame - Master Olympic 59
Fork - Steel (Presica) - threaded 
Headset - DA
Wheels - DA hubs laced to open pros
Tyres - Conti - attack/force
Shifters - DA 10sp
Crankset - DA double
Mechs - DA 10sp
Cassette - Ultegra 12-25
Pedals - DA
Brakes - DA
Saddle - Selle max flite gel flow
------------------------------------- (below will be changed to polished alloy spec soon)
Handlebar - Easton EA70
Seatpost - Easton EC90
Stem - 3ttt
Cage - carbon chorus


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

I think we should start a "master pic post thread" or a "Steel colnago" thread!


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## edmundjaques (Dec 29, 2005)

toonraid said:


> While researching buying a new bike last year i talked to a pretty well known framebuilder here in UK (NE) and he put me off using carbon rear stays saying that he would not recommend it for my weight (220) - at the time i was thinking of columbus triple butted tubing with their carve carbon rearstays and fork - maybe there is something to it given that we are talking about an MXL with rear stays!
> 
> Don't mean to hijack the thread but since on topic I weighed my MXL today and found it to be 21.75 lbs which suprised me a little as I expected to see something below 20. I have full DA including headset, pedals and hubs with open pros and its a size 59 - would be interested to know if anyone has hit 20 or lower with theirs.


When I weighed my all steel MXL immediately after build I was pretty sure it was almost nothing over 18lbs. That's with campag Proton wheels (perfect on this bike) and full record groupset, apart from FSA Carbon triple crankset. Arione saddle on someones titanium seatpost. It certainly feels light enough, the nimbleness (?) more than makes up for any weight - and I'm the biggest bit of ballast anyway.


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

My dodgy bathroom scale calculation is that my 60cm Master Olympic will come in very close to 20lb.
No carbon or Ti on it.


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

cliclisto,

Well, I have been a Master Olympic owner since early 1993. I ride a small frame of 51 cm center to top. I am now 200 pounds. No, I'm not a fit 200 pounds, just fat lol I guess I was 190 pounds when I bought the frame. I have easily 10,000 miles (16,000 km) on the frame. It still rides like new.


toonraid,

Don't go measuring weight on a old steel Colnago lol It'll depress you haha You've seen my bike. Record 8-speed Ergopower. Campy Omega rims to Record hubs. It weights a very light 21.0 pounds haha And keep in mind that my frame is tiny, so if it were in a 59 cm size like yours, I'm sure it would weigh 22.5 pounds hehe.. and to think that Colnago re-named it Master Light, and that it actually won the Olympics with all that weight... and with then ultra high end equipment as well (cost me damn unheard of US$3,700 in 1993 lol) .. it actually uses an aluminum cogset, cartridge bottom bracket, alloy nipples, tubular tires.. to ... {gasp}... save weight... And I had a choice and went with the... OMG.. ultra light double caliper brakes (instead of the regular Delta ultra heavy brakes)


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

oh god I am not a weight winnie - I weight 220 myself! It was just out of curiosity and comparison.


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

I do get kind of depressed whenever I lift a new 13 pound wonder one-ride-up-the-hill bike


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## ciclisto (Nov 8, 2005)

thanks for the many reply it is obvious the mxl colnago is up to the task, weight down to 190 and I will go for it. In the interim I bought a nos guerciotti, but I think I will sell it and get a black mxl. Hi jaques, how is the Alpe d' trip planning going?......ciclisto


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## edmundjaques (Dec 29, 2005)

ciclisto said:


> thanks for the many reply it is obvious the mxl colnago is up to the task, weight down to 190 and I will go for it. In the interim I bought a nos guerciotti, but I think I will sell it and get a black mxl. Hi jaques, how is the Alpe d' trip planning going?......ciclisto


Hi Ciclisto: Alpe trip going better than I had hoped - just got back from 2 weeks in S.France and the great organiser within my organisation thinks I should do it this year, not next ( well maybe next as well actually.) Even better, we're now thinking of buying something over there - spending 6-8months a year. The place we're looking at has secured storage absolutely perfect for a couple of Colnagos. Our next trip over - f. soon - will be by car, I can get two bikes in it so I'm on my way. Will keep you posted. How's your Ghisallo venture?


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

ciclisto said:


> As I was looking forward to a trip to the big city and a first hand look at a MXL 58' in LX4, but when I talked to the shop owner he actually talked me out of the frame saying it would deterioate in 2/3 years at the bottom bracket /seat tube interface. he showed me that the welds are not that substantial there. I weight 196lbs he thought this too heavy for this frame. So sad day I did not get it. He had lots of these but then showed me a DeRosa Avant carbon. Same price give or take. I can't believe this but I took his word he seemed honest and he lost a sale. I had the cash. Any opinions out there from fellow 196#fatties on this frame. ............he said this joint would fail!!
> thanks, jac............Jacques in U.K. How are you if you see this!.


What a load of crap...I'm a bit over 200 and have been riding my MXL since 2000. It is rock solid.


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## Dinosaur (Jan 29, 2004)

I weigh 210, I have a 33,000 miles on my '02 MXL and absolutely no problems. The only weak spot is inside the seat tube. Water can get in because of the slot in back of the st at the clamp area. I think you got very bad advice. I've never hear of this before.


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