# Anyone ride the F4:13?



## dawgcatching (Apr 26, 2004)

Any feedback on the F4:13? Guys at Competitive Cyclist are saying it is a fairly stiff race frame that smoothes out the chip-seal, while somebody at Gita said it was more of a recreational, not a race, frame (something like a Cannondale Synapse). Neither person had actually ridden one. It looks pretty massive at the BB, FWIW.

It would be interesting to hear what an actual rider with experience has to say! Any feedback?


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## Dougyowougy (Jan 28, 2004)

*F4:13*

I am a recreational rider and have had an F4:13 since 06/27/05 and as of today I have 844 miles on it and love the ride and the looks. The latest Bicycling mag. did a review and praised it as 'Made for red-line sprints, the Pinarello F4:13 is all about ferocious speed' but critisized it as 'nearly too stiff' with Campy Eurus wheels.

It has to be the wheels causing the harsh ride because I find my setup to be smooth as my 3.25 TI Litespeed Classic. I love this bicycle and have no complaints about it whatsoever. 
Easton/Velomax Orion II wheels
Michelin Pro2 race tires
Zero-gravity brakes
Arionne saddle
FSA K-Force crankset
D.A. shifters
Wippermann S-chain
Easton EC90 bars
Easton EA70 stem
D.A. front and rear derailleurs 
D.A. cassette
Speedplay pedals
59 cm
weight 16.70 lbs


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## dawgcatching (Apr 26, 2004)

Nice to hear that you like the F4:13. It looks stiff, so I was kind of scared away, but it is nice to hear an actual ride report. Did you get a weight on the frame only? With your parts, I was assuming it would come in under 16lbs. I am not surprised to hear that a Bicycling mag review may not be too accurate-I wonder if they even rode it at all. I have ridden the Eurus and found them to be as comfortable as my 32h Fir/Chorus wheels, so who knows?


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## PineNut (Jun 5, 2005)

The F4:13 is stiff but not overly so ..... it is actually quite a comfortable ride that I attribute only partially to the Onda rear stays and front fork. The frame is compliant and comfortable without being soft .

I only say the the fork and stay is only part of the reason because my other bike is the Dogma FP with the same fork and stay combination and on the same rides, the Dogma displays a more direct feeling with the road. Climbs better as well in my opinion but that should be expected  .

Cheers
EZ


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## alibaba93 (Jan 13, 2003)

*F4:13 vs Opera Leonardo FP?*

Are these frames functionally identical? both are monocoque carbon front triangle combined with onda stays and fork, and a Most bottom bracket. Or am I mistaken in thinking that the Leonardo FP is all carbon? I would be very interested to hear what (other than price) is the difference between the two. Thanks.


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## output555 (Aug 21, 2005)

*Pinarello F4:13*



dawgcatching said:


> Any feedback on the F4:13? Guys at Competitive Cyclist are saying it is a fairly stiff race frame that smoothes out the chip-seal, while somebody at Gita said it was more of a recreational, not a race, frame (something like a Cannondale Synapse). Neither person had actually ridden one. It looks pretty massive at the BB, FWIW.
> ---------------------------------
> 
> I have the F4:13 and to compare it with anything by Cannondale is plain silly. This is a world-class racing bike, period. Pretty much everything you could ask of a bike: Light, stiff, comfortable, great handling...fast. Oh, and totally bling bling. I have five top-of-the-line bikes in my collection ranging from Serotta to Klein to Trek to another Pinarello (Galileo) and the F4:13 is my favorite. With Dura Ace components and Velomax wheels it weighs in around 16.5 lbs for the 56cm size. Spending more than $4,000 on any bike is pretty extreme, but, that said, the F4:13 is a real value. I'd go with it over the Colgnago C50 HP any day.
> ...


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## lewdvig (Oct 4, 2004)

dawgcatching said:


> Any feedback on the F4:13? Guys at Competitive Cyclist are saying it is a fairly stiff race frame that smoothes out the chip-seal, while somebody at Gita said it was more of a recreational, not a race, frame (something like a Cannondale Synapse). Neither person had actually ridden one. It looks pretty massive at the BB, FWIW.
> 
> It would be interesting to hear what an actual rider with experience has to say! Any feedback?


I was kind of shocked to read these frames are made in Taiwan. Unless Pinarello has a factory over there, I would not be willing to pay a Pinarello premium for one of these. This bike is a 'budget performance model' and none of the pro teams use it - they are all on Dogmas or Prince SL's. Budget by Pinarello standards still means $2000+

I don't doubt that it is awesome. Giant can build as good a bike as anyone. Might as well buy a T-Mobile replica if you are going to spend this kind of dough for a Taiwan bike.


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## output555 (Aug 21, 2005)

*Made in Italy*



lewdvig said:


> I was kind of shocked to read these frames are made in Taiwan. Unless Pinarello has a factory over there, I would not be willing to pay a Pinarello premium for one of these. This bike is a 'budget performance model' and none of the pro teams use it - they are all on Dogmas or Prince SL's. Budget by Pinarello standards still means $2000+
> 
> I don't doubt that it is awesome. Giant can build as good a bike as anyone. Might as well buy a T-Mobile replica if you are going to spend this kind of dough for a Taiwan bike.


------------------------

This is how false rumors start. The bike is made in Italy at Pinarello. The carbon fibre is made in Asia. There's a difference.


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## lewdvig (Oct 4, 2004)

output555 said:


> ------------------------
> 
> This is how false rumors start. The bike is made in Italy at Pinarello. The carbon fibre is made in Asia. There's a difference.


Bicycling says Asian made carbon, and it is a monocoque. I hate to see Pinarello outsource, but maybe you are just reading what you want to read... I don't want to read that this is made in Asia - so don't say that I am reading what I want to see.

Plus, this bike is $2000 cheaper than a Dogma. Magnesium is harder to weld that carbon is to lay, but that is a ton of dough. Most Italian carbon rides are expensive as a Dogma...


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## PineNut (Jun 5, 2005)

I test muled a few brands before going with the Pinarello carbon - the decision was made comfortable by their experience with the Opera brand and the fact that this bike in my humble opinion outhandled on the descents and outclimbed the others despite lesser running gear (Chorus vs Dura Ace) than it's competition.

Time will tell whether it was a good choice ........


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## output555 (Aug 21, 2005)

lewdvig said:


> Bicycling says Asian made carbon, and it is a monocoque. I hate to see Pinarello outsource, but maybe you are just reading what you want to read... I don't want to read that this is made in Asia - so don't say that I am reading what I want to see.
> 
> Plus, this bike is $2000 cheaper than a Dogma. Magnesium is harder to weld that carbon is to lay, but that is a ton of dough. Most Italian carbon rides are expensive as a Dogma...


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Call Gita Bike, the importers of Pinarello. They'll tell you it's made in Italy. Since when did a monocoque frame have to be made where the fibre is made? The frame is shaped in a mold. Could be in Taiwan. Could be in America. Could be in Italy.

Why is the frame so "cheap" (it's cheaper than an overpriced Colnago, but not an American-made Trek)? Umm, the same reason carbon forks have dropped in price in the past five years. Supply is matching demand. The Asians are producing it in quantity. Magnesium is a monster to weld and Pinarello has proprietary rights to the Dogma, hence a premium price.


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## lewdvig (Oct 4, 2004)

output555 said:


> ----------------------
> 
> Call Gita Bike, the importers of Pinarello. They'll tell you it's made in Italy. Since when did a monocoque frame have to be made where the fibre is made? The frame is shaped in a mold. Could be in Taiwan. Could be in America. Could be in Italy.
> 
> Why is the frame so "cheap" (it's cheaper than an overpriced Colnago, but not an American-made Trek)? Umm, the same reason carbon forks have dropped in price in the past five years. Supply is matching demand. The Asians are producing it in quantity. Magnesium is a monster to weld and Pinarello has proprietary rights to the Dogma, hence a premium price.


Well, like I said, it is cool if this is right - I'll take your word for it. No point in bothering Gita til I am ready to buy one. 

Lately I have been trying to collect Italian steel - I have a Pinarello and Colnago, now all I need is a De Rosa, Bianchi, Guerciotti, Cinelli, Casati, Mondonico, Scapin and Pergoretti. We'll see how far I can get before my wife loses patience.


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## output555 (Aug 21, 2005)

*Made in Italy?*



lewdvig said:


> Well, like I said, it is cool if this is right - I'll take your word for it. No point in bothering Gita til I am ready to buy one.
> 
> Lately I have been trying to collect Italian steel - I have a Pinarello and Colnago, now all I need is a De Rosa, Bianchi, Guerciotti, Cinelli, Casati, Mondonico, Scapin and Pergoretti. We'll see how far I can get before my wife loses patience.


------------------------------

I decided to invesitgate further about the F4:13's place of origin. It appears we were both right--or wrong, depending on your point of view.

Here's the story: The carbon fibre is from Taiwan. The main frame molds are in Taiwan. Once the main triangle is formed there, it's shipped to Italy where the seat stays, chain stays and fork are attached. The finishing assembly is at Pinarello's shop in Italy. 

So, it's partially Taiwanese-made and partially Italian-made. The main thing I was told was "Made in Taiwan" no longer means "made like crap." In fact, the quality of Taiwanese-made carbon fibre bikes exceeds most of what comes out of Europe. 

Yes, it's too bad the Pinarello doesn't come with the cache and authenticity of a pure Italian-made bike, but at least they aren't so arrogant as to compromise quality or value just to keep flaunt the F4:13's point of origin.


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## lewdvig (Oct 4, 2004)

output555 said:


> ------------------------------
> 
> I decided to invesitgate further about the F4:13's place of origin. It appears we were both right--or wrong, depending on your point of view.
> 
> ...


It is still a hot bike. Before I decided to go retro I tried out an Orbea Orca for about an hour. It was a pretty impressive bike built up with Ultegra and American Classics 350 wheels. New carbon bikes ride really nice - they have some of the advantages of both steel and aluminum.


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## tommyj (Aug 25, 2005)

PineNut said:


> The F4:13 is stiff but not overly so ..... it is actually quite a comfortable ride that I attribute only partially to the Onda rear stays and front fork. The frame is compliant and comfortable without being soft .
> 
> I only say the the fork and stay is only part of the reason because my other bike is the Dogma FP with the same fork and stay combination and on the same rides, the Dogma displays a more direct feeling with the road. Climbs better as well in my opinion but that should be expected  .
> 
> ...


I just ordered an F4:13 frame with never having ridden one. I have been riding a Cannondale R800. I wanted to upgrade, but to something of a little softer ride and more speed. I did ride a Synapse and really liked it, but the F4:13 just looked too amazing to pass up. After the Bicycling review, it sounds a little harsh. How much more comfortable is it than the R800? Am I going to wish I ordered the Synapse?


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## dawgcatching (Apr 26, 2004)

tommyj said:


> I just ordered an F4:13 frame with never having ridden one. I have been riding a Cannondale R800. I wanted to upgrade, but to something of a little softer ride and more speed. I did ride a Synapse and really liked it, but the F4:13 just looked too amazing to pass up. After the Bicycling review, it sounds a little harsh. How much more comfortable is it than the R800? Am I going to wish I ordered the Synapse?


After having ridden both a CAAD8 and F4:13, the CAAD8 is definitely more compliant and a smoother ride. The F4:13 is more direct and way stiffer at the BB, but a harsher ride, IMO. The F4:13 looks much cooler. Hope this helps!


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## EasyRider47 (Sep 18, 2005)

*Right up there with the best!*

I just had my first ride today on my new F4:13 - blue/black - Campy Record 10 speed/Eurus wheels....it is right up there with the best! I have a bit of a collection - mainly Colnagos (C-40's, CT-1&2, 50th Anniversary) /Pinarellos (Princes)/Litespeed (Ghisallo/Ultimate)/Trek (5500 & 5.2 Madone)/Giant (T-Mobile). It is directly comparable to the best of these and ride response/stiffness is incredible. The bike was unexpectedly nimble and comfortable at the same time. I'll provide more details tomorrow after my next ride.


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## Tony Shih (Sep 7, 2005)

output555 said:


> ------------------------------
> 
> I decided to invesitgate further about the F4:13's place of origin. It appears we were both right--or wrong, depending on your point of view.
> 
> ...


Many of the carbon material comes from JPN (Toray), Many Taiwanese frame builder buys these carbon sheet from this company & molded in Taiwan. ship back to Italy, paint in italy. (paint in Taiwan also possible ) 
Nothing wrong with made in Taiwan, it is the balance of production cost, market share & how to make profit.. these bike guys are business man. They need to survive in this tough business. 
Giant will OEM for Colnago 2006 line up. For Carbon frame, the advantage of buying an Italian brand bike is that you are buying the name, the design ..that is all. (just like Apple produced its iPOD in CHINA, some BMW cars are made in USA)


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