# Best Bang for the Buck Upgrade



## arai_speed (Aug 19, 2003)

Hi everyone, I have a 2001 GT Lotto that weighs in at 22lbs with standard gearing 9 speed gearing (53/39 - 13/25) all in Shimano 105. 

For some time now I've been thinking about what would be the best bang for my buck upgrade. Both in terms of weight savings and useability.

On the usability side I've been thinking about switching to a 10 speed compact crank/bb/casette for easier climbing. On the other hand I've been kinda lusting over a new carbon frame (reusing most if not all my existing component group) from our friends in the People's Republic.

I've never ridden a carbon bike (or a low weight bike for that matter) so I have no real world experience as to which option to go with.

Gearing seems the obvious choice as it will allow me to climb easier (and longer) but I'm curious about CF and how it could change my ride.

Thoughts?


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## IAmCosmo (Jul 26, 2005)

Honestly, I don't know that you'd see a ton of difference in ride quality with a carbon frame. I ride both a Specialized Tarmac and a Specialized Allez. Both bikes are equipped identically. Both have same geometry. One has a carbon frame, and one has aluminum (both have carbon forks). I can't tell the difference. I know there are some who will swear that there is no comparison and that carbon is worlds better than aluminum (which I assume your bike is - I'm not familiar with it). That's fine. Personally, I don't see enough difference to justify the price.

If you aren't happy with the current gearing, look into upgrading it. But, you'll probably need to upgrade more than just the crank/bb/cassette. Honestly, that bike is getting a little long in the tooth as well. You may be better off just buying a whole new bike after you see how much you're going to be spending to upgrade.

Plus, carbon ain't gonna help you climb any better.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

> Gearing seems the obvious choice as it will allow me to climb easier (and longer)


Ain't necessarily so. If you're inadequately geared now, finding some lower gears might help. But unless you frequently climb hills so long and steep that you're bogging down in the 39x25, and really stuck at low cadence for long stretches, the gearing change won't make a big difference.

some numbers: with your 39x25 (41-inch) gear, at 7 mph on a steep climb you're turning 57 rpm. If you got a compact with a 34 ring, and a 27 cog in back (33 inches), you'd be "spinning" 71 rpm. Does that mean easier and longer climbing? Maybe, a little.


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## arai_speed (Aug 19, 2003)

IAmCosmo said:


> Honestly, I don't know that you'd see a ton of difference in ride quality with a carbon frame. I ride both a Specialized Tarmac and a Specialized Allez. Both bikes are equipped identically. Both have same geometry. One has a carbon frame, and one has aluminum (both have carbon forks). I can't tell the difference. I know there are some who will swear that there is no comparison and that carbon is worlds better than aluminum (which I assume your bike is - I'm not familiar with it). That's fine. Personally, I don't see enough difference to justify the price.
> 
> If you aren't happy with the current gearing, look into upgrading it. But, you'll probably need to upgrade more than just the crank/bb/cassette. Honestly, that bike is getting a little long in the tooth as well. You may be better off just buying a whole new bike after you see how much you're going to be spending to upgrade.
> 
> Plus, carbon ain't gonna help you climb any better.


Thanks - my bike is an aluminum bike and like you I've heard people comment that CF is so much better that they will not touch an aluminum bike. As far as the bike being long in the tooth (lol btw) it only has about 1500 miles as it sat in the garage for a long time.

If the upgrade cost is really high then surely I'll consider buying a new bike. 



JCavilia said:


> Ain't necessarily so. If you're inadequately geared now, finding some lower gears might help. But unless you frequently climb hills so long and steep that you're bogging down in the 39x25, and really stuck at low cadence for long stretches, the gearing change won't make a big difference.
> 
> some numbers: with your 39x25 (41-inch) gear, at 7 mph on a steep climb you're turning 57 rpm. If you got a compact with a 34 ring, and a 27 cog in back (33 inches), you'd be "spinning" 71 rpm. Does that mean easier and longer climbing? Maybe, a little.


All I do is climb hills (that's all there is around here) and while I don't think I bogg down I am always riding at 39/25 while I climb. Just yesterday I climbed a 5400 ft hill at (you guessed it) 7 mph but I do see what you mean about the difference between a higher cadance (less travel) vs. lower cadance (longer travel more power). Humm....


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## Jett (Mar 21, 2004)

arai_speed said:


> Hi everyone, I have a 2001 GT Lotto that weighs in at 22lbs with standard gearing 9 speed gearing (53/39 - 13/25) all in Shimano 105.
> 
> For some time now I've been thinking about what would be the best bang for my buck upgrade. Both in terms of weight savings and useability.
> 
> ...


When upgrading you want to start off by reducing roatational weight. Wheels is the best place to start. 

As for frame material, IMHO, it doesn't matter. Don't buy into the CF hype. How a bike rides depends on how the frame is designed, the geometry, the shape of the tubes, ect.


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## Urb (Jul 19, 2010)

Nothing wrong with Aluminum. Better gearing will help your ride but at price of a group I agree with IAmCosmo, a new bike is the better deal.

I almost exclusively ride hills (7-12% grade) and I say aero bars are the best bang for the buck. Not wheels, not frame, or groupo. Aero bars.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

For me finding the right size/shape saddle made a bit of difference. Turns out I was on too narrow a saddle...Shoes and good insoles made another noticeable improvement as well. Lastly, and not what you want to hear but, losing weight in the kitchen was the absolute best bang for the buck imho. ymmv.


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## mtnroadie (Jul 6, 2010)

I always bought into the whole carbon is a nicer plusher ride tham aluminum. So I never really rode a aluminum road bike. For what its worth I did build one up one time from Bikes Direct and was pleasantly surprised about how smooth it felt.

Lately I have developed a fetish for vintage steel, and really want to try titanium. My carbon bike is smooth but by no means plush infact its stiff as hell.

I think your best bet is to save up a bit more and get a whole new bike. It seems like you are interested in both a new 10 speed group and a new carbon frame, sounds like a new bike to me. There are some sick deals out there for new and slightly used bikes, just keep an eye out on ebay and CL or local LBSs who are clearing out their old models, also bikesdirect if your are on a budget and want a decent bike.


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## Newnan3 (Jul 8, 2011)

+1 New bike.


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## arai_speed (Aug 19, 2003)

Thanks for the replies - as far as a new group what would I be looking at to switch out to a 10 speed? I have

Crank	$190
BB	$60
Deraillure	$70
Cassette	$60
Chain	$40
Total: $420

I don't think I can get a brand new bike for $420? 

Jett, wheels are on my list (they've always been) - at the moment my old Mavic XP21 weight in at:

Front: 870.897
Rear: 1043.262

Or 1914kg (4.22lbs) - I was looking at the Williams Cycle System 30 (or 30X):

Williams Cycling | Buy Direct and Save | Wheel System 30

Williams Cycling | Buy Direct and Save | Wheel System 30x

And those would save me 334g (pair) for the 30 and 275g (pair) for the 30X - for $500 is a bit over a 1/2 lb the best bang for my buck? Would I notice a difference in acceleration/handling? I guess, I could always reread the hundreds of pages on chinesse carbon chinchers 

woodys737, thanks for the kitchen comment but at 180lbs and 6'1 I think I'm pretty comfortable where I'm at (I was at 220lbs a few months ago).


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## arai_speed (Aug 19, 2003)

Newnan3 said:


> +1 New bike.


Ha! No love for the oldies? Here she is in all her glory:


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## teflondog (Aug 23, 2011)

When I ride my carbon bike, my lower back doesn't feel sore the following day. That's the only difference I can discern between my carbon and aluminum bikes. In terms of ride quality they feel exactly the same to me. Buying a new group can cost at least $500 + the cost of labor if you don't know how to swap parts yourself. For a few hundred dollars more, you can buy a complete bike. I think it's worth the upgrade unless you're satisfied with your frame.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

Until you spend BIG money on a bike, whatever you get is going to have mediocre wheels anyway. I think buying a decent set of wheels makes sense, they can follow you around to different bikes.

Nothing wrong with an older bike. Id ride it until it breaks, as long as it fits you well.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

22 lb isn't light? My bikes are all going to have to hang their heads in shame... I think, anyway. One of these days I'll weigh them.

If you're having a usability issue with the gearing, you truly will notice a difference changing gearing. If the bike fits you right and you have decent tires, everything else is fairly marginal.

You've got a couple choices for lowering gearing. The cheapest would be a cassette with a larger big cog, but it may require a new rear derailleur to make a significant change. You can also change to a compact crank, which might let you keep the same rear derailleur. Or you could do a whole new drivetrain. You left shifters off your list. You'd need them to go 10-speed, but IMO, if your current shifters are still working well, you're fine to stay 9-speed. As long as you stay with Shimano, cross-compatibility between 9- and 10-speed road components is pretty much complete. If you're thinking about something a little more radical with your gearing and need a MTB rear derailleur, the shopping gets a little (but not much, honestly) more complicated.

I think I come from a little different perspective than JCavilia about the gearing - I only need a couple more shifts to spin up a lot of hills that get a lot harder for me when I'm on someone's bike with a 39/25 lowest gear. He gets a kick out of beating me up things and I need to work on that style of climbing, so it's all good, but I wouldn't want to be committed to that on my main bike.


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## Newnan3 (Jul 8, 2011)

Its not that I dont love old bikes but a new bike is a new bike man!

18lbs $1200

Sette Vitale 1.0 105 Alloy/Carbon Road Bike at Price Point

For the amount youre looking at spending on drivetrain and wheels you could sell your old bike and get a new rig. Anyhoo, just a suggestion


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## arai_speed (Aug 19, 2003)

AndrwSwitch said:


> 22 lb isn't light? My bikes are all going to have to hang their heads in shame... I think, anyway. One of these days I'll weigh them.
> 
> If you're having a usability issue with the gearing, you truly will notice a difference changing gearing. If the bike fits you right and you have decent tires, everything else is fairly marginal.
> 
> ...


Thank you - I didn't realize shifters would need to be replaced, good info. I may need to drop by my LBS and have a chat w/the mechanic there and get some opinions on what can be done w/my current bike.



Newnan3 said:


> Its not that I dont love old bikes but a new bike is a new bike man!
> 
> 18lbs $1200
> 
> ...


I appreciate the suggestion, a new bike definitely an option. When I saw the 2011 BCM STREET RACER from Competitive Cyclist I fell in lovvveee. 

Thanks for all the replies everyone,


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

AndrwSwitch said:


> 22 lb isn't light? My bikes are all going to have to hang their heads in shame... I think, anyway. One of these days I'll weigh them.
> 
> *If you're having a usability issue with the gearing, you truly will notice a difference changing gearing. If the bike fits you right and you have decent tires, everything else is fairly marginal.*
> 
> ...


Good all 'round advice, IMHO. 

If it were my bike (and it fit well), I'd go with a gearing change and up that hill climbing cadence of 57 (hurts my knees just typing that!) and call it a day. Ride the bike with that change (and a nice bike it is, BTW) and save for that shiny new bike, but IMO there's no hurry.

EDIT: If you want your bike to ride like an expensive CF bike, go with 25c tires and experiment with tire pressures - based on total rider weight, style of riding, road conditions, etc...


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## arai_speed (Aug 19, 2003)

AndrwSwitch, so from reading your post an item such as the following:

Shimano Ultegra CS-6500 9-speed Cassette would require me to possibly change out the derailleur?

I would go for the 12-27: 12,13,14,15,17,19,21,24,27 option as that would give me two gears that would be a welcome up in the hills.


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## arai_speed (Aug 19, 2003)

PJ352 said:


> Good all 'round advice, IMHO.
> 
> If it were my bike (and it fit well), I'd go with a gearing change and up that hill climbing cadence of 57 (hurts my knees just typing that!) and call it a day. Ride the bike with that change (and a nice bike it is, BTW) and save for that shiny new bike, but IMO there's no hurry.
> 
> EDIT: If you want your bike to ride like an expensive CF bike, go with 25c tires and experiment with tire pressures - based on total rider weight, style of riding, road conditions, etc...


Thanks! I had no idea that was even an option.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

arai_speed said:


> AndrwSwitch, so from reading your post an item such as the following:
> 
> Shimano Ultegra CS-6500 9-speed Cassette would require me to possibly change out the derailleur?
> 
> I would go for the 12-27: 12,13,14,15,17,19,21,24,27 option as that would give me two gears that would be a welcome up in the hills.


My advice is to try it and see. Shimano's RD max cog specs are notoriously conservative, so there's a good chance you'll be ok. If not, a 5600 (105) or 6600 (Ultegra) RD will do the job.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

arai_speed said:


> Thanks! I had no idea that was even an option.


Just make sure there's adequate tire clearance for the 25c's before committing to a purchase. Odds are you'll be ok, though.


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## Jett (Mar 21, 2004)

arai_speed said:


> Jett, wheels are on my list (they've always been) - at the moment my old Mavic XP21 weight in at:
> 
> Front: 870.897
> Rear: 1043.262
> ...


You will notice some improvement in acceleration. With lighter wheels it take less energy to spin them up to speed. 

As for handling that that has to do with the bike geometry and change wheels will most likely not affect that.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Funny. I notice a change in handling more than a change in acceleration. I don't know that I'm particularly subtle about either... but I can't feel the resistance of the bike when I accelerate as being different from the resistance of my own mass, and I do feel it a little when I move it laterally.


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## IAmCosmo (Jul 26, 2005)

arai_speed said:


> Thanks for the replies - as far as a new group what would I be looking at to switch out to a 10 speed? I have
> 
> Crank	$190
> BB	$60
> ...


You're not going to notice 334g. New wheels are nice, but don't expect them to get you up over the hills better. Since you're posting this in the beginners section, I'm assuming you are a beginner. I'll give you the best advice I've ever heard - if you want to climb faster, climb more. The more you do it, the faster you'll climb. And that's free.

Don't get obsessed with weight. I wouldn't suggest riding a 40 pound loaded touring bike, but any decent road bike will be light enough to do what you want. Unless you're a little 120 pound pure climber, the bike weight isn't going to make much difference anyways.

No, you can't buy a new bike for $420 (at least not one you'd want to ride). But for not a lot more you can get a good bike, then you'd have a new bike and have a complete older bike as a backup.


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## arai_speed (Aug 19, 2003)

Thanks for replies everyone. IAmCosmo, I am definetely a beginner, when I climb the local canyons all i see is people passing me and while I have been riding more (and getting faster) I sometimes feel like I hit a wall when the GPS reads 9% grade and I have to get off the saddle.

Having said that, I went ahead and ordered an Ultegra CS-6500 Bike Cassette (12-27) which should work on my current group set ($60 from ebay) so I will give that a try and do another hill run to see how much of a difference it makes. Comparing the gears for each I don't think I loose much and actually gain a smaller gear for the descent and a bigger gear for the ascent:

13,14,15,16,17,19,21,23,25 old
12,13,14,15,17,19,21,24,27 new


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## Danger Mouse (Apr 8, 2010)

Best bang for the buck upgrade is upgrading the engine.


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## arai_speed (Aug 19, 2003)

Danger Mouse said:


> Best bang for the buck upgrade is upgrading the engine.


No doubt! But I'm also trying to stimulate the economy ;-)


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