# Trek's "lifetime" warranty



## onefastbiker (Mar 23, 2012)

After 18 years and about 4 months my 1993 5200 OCLV developed a crack in drive side chain-stay.

Bob Read's Masterpiece (first image)


The 5200's fatal blow (second image)




An authorized dealer photographed the damage and sent the claim to Trek. They wanted to see the frame, so we dissembled it and sent it to Waterloo. Prior to receiving the frame, I spoke to Mr. Mitch Plout at Trek Warranties, he remarked that: "carbon fiber does not fatigue". In fact, Calfee's technical white paper states that carbon fiber frames have a "high fatigue resistance". I explained that, over the years, I have dropped the chain due to shifting miss-adjustments a few times, but this hasn't occurred in years. The crack was below where a chain would drop (the crack extends to the bottom of the chain stay where it turns back on form a "u" shape on the bottom of the stay) . This crack didn't result from any recent accident. Mr. John Buchanan of Natomas Cycles, the authorized dealer, remarked that Specialized Bicycles warranty policy left things up to the dealer and he would replace the frame if this bike was from that manufacture. After Mr. Mitch Plout received the frame, he contacted John and remarked that the crack was from "wear and tear" and would NOT be covered by the TREK Warranty. This process took a full month. In concession, I was offered a new frame or bike at 20% off. John offered me the new frame at an extremely low price and did a fine job building it (third image).



It is true that I had over 76K miles on the 5200 and certainly got my money's worth.However, over the years I have known a few owners of this frame that developed a crack in the carbon and all of them received a replacement frame from Trek.

This is the first bike I've owned without a "made in America" decal displayed on a frame tube. Guess a few penny's a unit is worth more to the current management then keeping America's work force strong and vibrant. American business should look tot Germany for a better solution for both parties. Warranties have always been a marketing issue - the manufactures know that most of the bikes they sell will be collecting dust in the garage long before their structural expiration. Replacing a few of them went a long way towards establishing their hard earned reputation.

Treks remain exquisitely engineered, highly rated and sought after. Hopefully, one day their management will match the engineering expertise the company relies on. I hope all of you that are on a Trek are as lucky as I am given Trek's current policies!


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## inthesticks (Oct 27, 2010)

I would have to say you sure got some miles out of it, your new bike prob rides a bit different than the old one.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Looks like chain-suck damage. Glad they had a back up plan for you. I have one of the 2011 5-series Madones (Asian made) and it rides fantastic. While I'm sorry to see production leaving the US, Trek has to remain competitive with the other brands out there, who have been enjoying the financial benefits of overseas production for years (in most cases, all of their years).


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## tbb001 (Oct 1, 2007)

onefastbiker said:


> This is the first bike I've owned without a "made in America" decal displayed on a frame tube. Guess a few penny's a unit is worth more to the current management then keeping America's work force strong and vibrant.


It's a heck of a lot more than a few pennies, trust me! 

That said, name another large bicycle manufacturer that makes any bicycles in the USA aside from Trek. 



davidka said:


> Looks like chain-suck damage.


Agreed.


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## onefastbiker (Mar 23, 2012)

Inthestiks and davidke:

The 5.9 frame: It shifts cleanly and precise, carves corners like a scalpel in the hands of a German surgeon, spins great on the new BB bearings and climbs like it was being chased by the entire underworld.Good thing as my ride this morning was fast! 

tbb001: 

Unfortunately, though Calfee and Seven and the other few hundred other participants in the "handmade bike show" in Sacramento CA make fine bikes but they are not "large manufactures". Look at it this way: GM wants to sell cars in China so they build a factory in China. The Chinese people want to buy BMW's, so the Germans add another shift to the plant in Munich. When I was in Germany last June a friend looked around and remarked that everyone that wanted a job had one in Germany and the economy was MUCH better (in Germany) then in her country. Treks "sell themselves" and after 7 tour victories and countless National Championship victories they could easily mimic the German company. How many pennies is not the point. 

Please read my statement about chain damage in my posting and get out and have fun riding!


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

onefastbiker said:


> tbb001:
> . Look at it this way: GM wants to sell cars in China so they build a factory in China. The Chinese people want to buy BMW's, so the Germans add another shift to the plant in Munich. When I was in Germany last June a friend looked around and remarked that everyone that wanted a job had one in Germany and the economy was MUCH better (in Germany) then in her country. Treks "sell themselves" and after 7 tour victories and countless National Championship victories they could easily mimic the German company. How many pennies is not the point.


It is the point though, it's not pennies, it's many dollars. Other companies are selling high end road bikes into the same markets as Trek and enjoying a big competitive advantage by being more profitable while being able to price their product more aggressively. Trek, Specialized, Cannondale, etc. operate on a far different scale than the hundreds of makers at NAHMBS, they have large dealer bases depending on them to continue to offer them compelling products that will make them successful.

Made in America is important but today it's just not viable for many business models. Maybe that will change as China and Taiwan continue to grow their economies and their labor becomes more expensive.

BMW sells more cars at a higher profit in America by making them in South Carolina.


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## onefastbiker (Mar 23, 2012)

You are right about other companies sending their work away and short term profit goes up when they do. BMW makes their small SUV in South Carolina. USA is the only country where that model is popular and I I'm pleased the Germans can make a business model that makes it profitable to manufacture something here.

What I am saying is that bicycle companies should have other priorities than simply increasing their profits. Trek made competitive bikes in the world market in this country for years - I've owned several of them and I saw one their OCLV carbon bikes win a race in Olympic Park (Munich Germany) in 2001. That bike had a Made in the USA decal on it and the racer that owned it was proud of it.

If the only viable business model is to utilize the cheapest labor possible for building the bikes that USA technology once led the world with we will loose that technological edge very quickly. The market is flooded with no-name carbon frames from china for $400 as a result of giving them this technology. The manufacture of these frames was pioneered by TREK in the early 1990's. I raced my 1993 5200 for several years and nothing in world could match that frame at that time. 

You and I can not change the direction of American companies, but a country that exports food and raw materials and buys manufactured goods is often called third world country. This is where your "viable" business model leads the United States. The Germans are not following this path. The president of of this country wants us to make things here for the sake of our future and we need to follow that direction. Trek shouldn't get a tax break for moving their manufacturing overseas. We MUST require our politicians and corporations to act now - while we can.


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

My biggest objection to the pennies vs dollars argument is that when bikes move overseas, the dollars don't reflect this. They didn't for the 5-series Treks, the Domane is more expensive than a 6-series Madone (nearly SSL price), Cannondale CAAD series didn't get cheaper when they got shut down and sent overseas. 

It's definitely an issue of priorities. Think Pinarello needs to make their $6000 Dogma frame in some Chinese factory because they just couldn't afford to sell it for so cheap if it wasn't Chinese?


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## rearviewmirror (Aug 20, 2008)

onefastbiker said:


> You are right about other companies sending their work away and short term profit goes up when they do. BMW makes their small SUV in South Carolina. USA is the only country where that model is popular and I I'm pleased the Germans can make a business model that makes it profitable to manufacture something here.
> 
> What I am saying is that bicycle companies should have other priorities than simply increasing their prophets. Trek made competitive bikes in the world market in this country for years - I've owned several of them and I saw one their OCLV carbon bikes win a race in Olympic Park (Munich Germany) in 2001. That bike had a Made in the USA decal on it and the racer that owned it was proud of it.
> 
> ...


Marketing increases prophets, manufacturing overseas increases profits.

To the OP:

Awesome story! I broke my 2003 5200, and had a new frame from Trek in 4 days. It pays to buy a Trek brand new, especially carbon bikes because they will break, and Trek stands behind them.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

MarvinK said:


> My biggest objection to the pennies vs dollars argument is that when bikes move overseas, the dollars don't reflect this. They didn't for the 5-series Treks, the Domane is more expensive than a 6-series Madone (nearly SSL price), Cannondale CAAD series didn't get cheaper when they got shut down and sent overseas.
> 
> It's definitely an issue of priorities. Think Pinarello needs to make their $6000 Dogma frame in some Chinese factory because they just couldn't afford to sell it for so cheap if it wasn't Chinese?


These things are done to improve profitability. The price doesn't come down because the market has demonstrated that it will bear it. An Asian made specialized was never less $$ than a comparably spec'd Trek and it was never manufactured in the US. Customers did not shun the brand for it and they're not shunning Trek now.

FWIW, I believe the 5-series bike did come down in price from 2010 to 2011 and regardless of where it was made, the 2011 frame is superior to it's predecessor.

As for BMW in the US, they didn't have to think too hard about it, all of the Japenese makes have been doing it for many years. Honda=Ohio, Subaru=Indiana, Toyota=many, Hyundai (Korean)=Alabama. BMW DOES make cars in China, 67,000 3 and 5 series cars in 2008, I guarantee that number has another digit in it now. They are also making over 100k vehicles in Mexico, presumably for the US and South American markets.


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## Tlaloc (May 12, 2005)

rearviewmirror said:


> Marketing increases prophets, manufacturing overseas increases profits...


prophet:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet

profit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profit_(accounting)

Every prophet can make more $$$ with good marketing, take Jesus and Mohamed for example.


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## onefastbiker (Mar 23, 2012)

rearviewmirror said:


> Marketing increases prophets, manufacturing overseas increases profits.
> 
> To the OP:
> 
> Awesome story! I broke my 2003 5200, and had a new frame from Trek in 4 days. It pays to buy a Trek brand new, especially carbon bikes because they will break, and Trek stands behind them.




Thanks! Good for you, I wish they did the same for me


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## onefastbiker (Mar 23, 2012)

MarvinK said:


> My biggest objection to the pennies vs dollars argument is that when bikes move overseas, the dollars don't reflect this. They didn't for the 5-series Treks, the Domane is more expensive than a 6-series Madone (nearly SSL price), Cannondale CAAD series didn't get cheaper when they got shut down and sent overseas.
> 
> It's definitely an issue of priorities. Think Pinarello needs to make their $6000 Dogma frame in some Chinese factory because they just couldn't afford to sell it for so cheap if it wasn't Chinese?


So greed is good? The profits of a corporation are more important to you then America's economy? The Americans that built Treks in Waterloo paid taxes and bought things just like the those that build BMW SUV's in this country. Trek MADE money for years building bikes.


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## onefastbiker (Mar 23, 2012)

davidka said:


> These things are done to improve profitability. The price doesn't come down because the market has demonstrated that it will bear it. An Asian made specialized was never less $$ than a comparably spec'd Trek and it was never manufactured in the US. Customers did not shun the brand for it and they're not shunning Trek now.
> 
> FWIW, I believe the 5-series bike did come down in price from 2010 to 2011 and regardless of where it was made, the 2011 frame is superior to it's predecessor.
> 
> As for BMW in the US, they didn't have to think too hard about it, all of the Japenese makes have been doing it for many years. Honda=Ohio, Subaru=Indiana, Toyota=many, Hyundai (Korean)=Alabama. BMW DOES make cars in China, 67,000 3 and 5 series cars in 2008, I guarantee that number has another digit in it now. They are also making over 100k vehicles in Mexico, presumably for the US and South American markets.


So greed is good? The profits of a corporation are more important to you then America's economy? The Americans that built Treks in Waterloo paid taxes and bought things just like the those that build BMW SUV's in this country. Trek MADE money for years building bikes in the USA.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

For better or worse, that's the way it is. If companies don't make these changes they fail and everyone in the business loses their jobs. Customers are not choosing to reward companies for the "Made in America" stamp. 

Having visited Trek back when they still made Aluminum frames in Waterloo, I did not see thousands of production employees, if even hundreds. It's not as big an operation as the brand's profile makes it seem. From what I can see, these companies (Trek, Specialized) are continuing to grow. That means more shops selling their goods in more communities, employing Americans and paying taxes.

While citing the Germans, realize that one of their most visible bike brands, Focus, has made it's success by selling asian made bikes customer direct/internet, cutting out the dealer. Trek and Specialized do not do this.


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## onefastbiker (Mar 23, 2012)

OK, Understand that the tone of some of these responses sound like some of you are pleased that trek manufacturing left the states for PROFIT. However, this response rings too true:

"For better or worse, that's the way it is. If companies don't make these changes they fail and everyone in the business loses their jobs. Customers are not choosing to reward companies for the "Made in America" stamp." 

This fact is a sad truth. Germans buy a lot of German products out of National pride - we need more. Dollars or pennies, we are not making what we engineer and that's not sustainable for the long term.

Thanks, and I sorry for my terse response about greed, but this is a sore spot in my hart after riding Treks for 29 years and once proudly wearing their logo on my sleeve when they sponsored the race team I was riding with. 

- Gary


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## steel515 (Sep 6, 2004)

I read the highest level Madone ($6-7K) is made in US (but others are not). Has this always been the case?


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

steel515 said:


> I read the highest level Madone ($6-7K) is made in US (but others are not). Has this always been the case?


No, in the last couple years that has become the case. Up until ~2 years ago, anything with "OCLV" on it was made in Wisconsin. You can still buy a Project 1 Madone 6-series with SRAM Rival or Shimano 105 and basic wheels for far less than that.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

onefastbiker said:


> Thanks, and I sorry for my terse response about greed, but this is a sore spot in my hart after riding Treks for 29 years and once proudly wearing their logo on my sleeve when they sponsored the race team I was riding with.
> 
> - Gary


No need to apologize. I get where you're coming from.


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## onefastbiker (Mar 23, 2012)

"Having visited Trek back when they still made Aluminum frames in Waterloo, I did not see thousands of production employees, if even hundreds. It's not as big an operation as the brand's profile makes it seem. From what I can see, these companies (Trek, Specialized) are continuing to grow. That means more shops selling their goods in more communities, employing Americans and paying taxes."

David - you were lucky to see the operation in full scale Must have been worth the trip!

And yes, retail employes do pay taxes. As you probably know, just not at the same rate as the higher paid assembly jobs that were lost. Trek is a private company that doesn't have to publish profit/loss statements; you must have quite an inside track on their operation to know they wouldn't survive if they didn't re-locate the assembly facilities overseas. Sad that even without stock owners and hedge fund managers to answer to, they still had to do it.

You are correct about BMW in China too - I was relying on information I read years ago - should have known to check as they have just opened their second factory there. Guess Globalization has hit the Germans too - just not as hard. 

Some of the local dealers here have stopped carrying the brand. The one I talked to simply remarked that they had become too dictatorial about what other brands he could carry. John (who built my bike) remarked they no longer backed their warranty as they once did. Indeed, I'm sure that had my chain-stay cracked a few years earlier they would have replaced the frame as they did for others that I was riding with at the time. However, the old warrior did last until the MUCH improved Madone model arrived! 

Train hard and ride fast 
-Gary


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## inthesticks (Oct 27, 2010)

Trek has two facilities, one in Waterloo and the other in Whitewater. All US made bikes are assembled in White Water, I think they are painted and designed in Waterloo than shipped down to Whitewater for final assembly.

They have been working OT trying to catch up with items lately.


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## onefastbiker (Mar 23, 2012)

inthesticks said:


> Trek has two facilities, one in Waterloo and the other in Whitewater. All US made bikes are assembled in White Water, I think they are painted and designed in Waterloo than shipped down to Whitewater for final assembly.=QUOTE]
> 
> Yes, I believe they shipped my replacement frame from Whitewater. My 5.9 frame was made in Taiwan However, it's an OUTSTANDING frame.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

onefastbiker said:


> you must have quite an inside track on their operation to know they wouldn't survive if they didn't re-locate the assembly facilities overseas. Sad that even without stock owners and hedge fund managers to answer to, they still had to do it.


No, I have no inside line. That was conjecture based on what I've seen all the other companies do. There's no reason to believe that they would not survive had they kept all carbon/high end production in the US but it had to be a disadvantage against their key competitors who have been enjoying the benefits for years.


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## rose.johnp (Jul 20, 2011)

My Gary Fisher MTB cracked right behind the BB. Trek replaced it with no problem, but being in Hawaii, it took about 6 weeks. I was rather impressed with how easy it was.


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## onefastbiker (Mar 23, 2012)

rose.johnp said:


> My Gary Fisher MTB cracked right behind the BB. Trek replaced it with no problem, but being in Hawaii, it took about 6 weeks. I was rather impressed with how easy it was.


Good for you! They once did that for my model to and they would replace it even if it was the chain that did the damage.

From the web page: History and Revisions of the TREK OCLV Frameset

"In 1992, TREK introduced the OCLV full-carbon frameset. This was the first time TREK had a full-carbon design; earlier carbon frames either utilized carbon tubes and aluminum fittings (lugs if you will) or a very brief flirtation with a full-carbon frame that was manufactured elsewhere.

Two models were available that first year, the full Dura-Ace 5500, and the Ultegra-equipped 5200. Identical frame & fork for each. Initial sales for us were phenomenal- we had just one store at the time, and sold over 110 of them that first year! It didn't do much for our relationship with Kestrel, but we found the TREK OCLVs to be lighter, stronger, and have the best warranty support we could possibly hope for. 

1992 There were a couple problems with the earliest bikes, most notably a tendency for Shimano's then-new STI shifters to dump the chain off of the inside chainring up front, causing it to get jammed in between the chainring and the chainstay. Trouble is, a carbon-fiber chainstay doesn't offer much resistance to a steel chain that's being forced into it, so there were a number of chainstays that eventually failed due to having holes chewed through them. The fix was pretty simple, and came about four months into the first production run. It was actually a two-part fix, each very simple and so obvious you wonder why nobody thought of them in the first place.

First, someone at TREK designed an ingenious "chain keeper ring" that mounted between the bottom bracket and the frame. If the chain were to come off the inside, this ring would prevent it from sliding into the crankset and jamming. In fact, you can nearly always shift the chain back onto the chainring without getting off the bike! Second, a simple adhesive stainless-steel plate was affixed to the part of the chainstay that would be attacked by the chain, in the unlikely event the new chain keeping ring didn't do its job. (To TREKs credit, even though the issue of the chain coming off the inside during shifting wasn't their fault, they still treated chewed-through chainstays as a warranty situation on those earliest frames). "

My bike was NOT fitted with this device but still lasted over 18 years and it's demise was not a direct result of a chain.


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