# Chain-L lube review...finally



## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

I want to thank fb for the free sample to test out Chain-L lube.

We have had many debates on chain lubes and I for one, basically disliked to hated most store bought chain-lubes I have tried. One reason or another, I just did don't care for them.

I have been using several combinations on how brew chain lubes the last 8 yrs. with GRAT success. Whether its my own concoction, or a dive form engineers, mech, etc in many fields that deal with friction and/or lubrication for a dive and different types of oils.

In January of this year year, I received a sample of Chain-L lube from fb. I was going to purchase to test it myself, but I was given free sample. Being in the industry, I get free samples, cost and what not on a lot of stuff. I will only ride/use what I truly like. Even if it mean s paying full retail. So a small free sample is NOT going to cloud my judgement.

I I cleaned my KMC x-10 SL Gold chain with MS and brake cleaner. The chain had around 2600k miles on it and is still quite and shifting smooth with HB on a KCNC cassette.

I applied chain-l lube to it as per the directions and let it penetrate over night.

as of Today being close to 6 months later and just over 875 miles side adding the lube and NEVER another drop, my chain is still as quite if not more and cleaner than using HB.
My dire train is dead silent, period. shifting is as smooth as ever and the chain is cleaner.

My riding involved rain, sweat, mud, etc over the testing period. I ride by the ocean a lot, so i have to deal with salt air and sand as well, which does effect my chain.

Here is a picture of my chain:











I have to say I a shocked and beyond please at the performance of chain-l lube.
It.s by far and hands down the best chain lube I have ever tired. The thought of paying twice or more than what it costs me to make HB drives me crazy, but the befits and ease of chain maintenance has won me over.

I will be getting more for my personal use as well as bikes I build and spinning bikes I maintain for commercial use.

Just get some Chain-L lube and be done with it folks. Its work every penny IMO!


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

I'll second the recommendation.

just used the Chain-L on a new KMC chain. driveline has never been quieter, cleaner, or shifted smoother. 500 miles on the first application and all's well.

it's a miracle product.


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## L9Sports (May 29, 2012)

interesting, thanks.


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

How do you keep it from splattering all over your wheels? I got some Chain-L on the recommendation of my LBS but have been less than impressed. Because it is so thick, it is hard to apply without using too much. Then the first time I ride my bike after oiling the chain, it splatters black gunk all over my rear rim and spokes. I sent Chain-L an email asking for advice and they recommended thinning it slightly with mineral spirits, but that didn't seem to help much. It may be a great lubricant, but I don't like having to spend 30 minutes cleaning my wheels after using it.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

I lubed the new chain off the bike on a layer of newspapers. noticed very little splattering once it was installed. cleanup took about 2 minutes.

since the KMC has a quick-link, will probably just take it off when it's time to re-lube...

the feel of the driveline is so noticeably smoother, a small amount of time spent wiping a wheel down is worth it.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

I put on the Chain-L and then pop the chain in the toaster oven in the shop for a few minutes on low heat. That gets the lube in there quickly for shop use. Then I let it cool and hang the chain from a hook in the shop (there's a pan underneath to catch any excess lube). Then I wipe the chain off, install it, and pretty much ignore it for 1000+ miles.

I've never gotten any lube on my wheels, either.


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## GirchyGirchy (Feb 12, 2004)

I'm guessing the black stuff on the rim is old lube. Like the others, I cleaned my chains with MS and let them dry, then lubed with CL on newspaper, and after an hour or so wiped it as clean as I could. No black stuff flying off at all.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

GirchyGirchy said:


> I'm guessing the black stuff on the rim is old lube. Like the others, I cleaned my chains with MS and let them dry, then lubed with CL on newspaper, and after an hour or so wiped it as clean as I could. No black stuff flying off at all.


Good to hear that. I never had an issue of splattering in my wheels.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Told ya so. 

I'll second the "dump it into the toaster oven" after lubing it. The chain sucks up the lube and you get no shedding on the wheel/frame after the first ride.


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## TomBrooklyn (Mar 15, 2008)

DIRT BOY said:


> 6 months later and just over 875 miles side adding the lube and NEVER another drop. My riding involved rain, sweat, mud, etc over the testing period. I ride by the ocean a lot...I have to say I am shocked and beyond pleased


I am flabbergasted. 875 miles of rain, sweat and mud soaked salt air and sand over six months and it looks that good? It's seems like magic. I don't even know what my chain looks like right after I lube it. It's all black after I spin it a few times.


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## dodger150 (Feb 15, 2005)

*Smell?*

DB, or other users,

Can you comment on any odor it may give off? Like many folks here, I store my bikes in my house (a spare bedroom in my case). I think I read somewhere that it gave off a rather strong petroleum smell (unfortunately I can't find the old thread). Is it any worse than other lubes you have used?


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## dsb137 (Jan 15, 2010)

Yeah, the stuff smells like hypoid gear oil to me, but I'm liking the stuff so far...

Chain – L
Chain-L Revisited


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

doesn't smell lovely like Tri-Flow, but I have a sensitive snout and the odor of CL wasn't offensive.

my primary ride resides in the home office which is actually an extension of the kitchen and I would surely notice any gross fumes when I was preparing food.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

DIRT BOY said:


> I want to thank fb for the *free sample *to test out Chain-L lube.
> 
> We have had many debates on chain lubes and I for one, basically disliked to hated most store bought chain-lubes I have tried. One reason or another, I just did don't care for them.
> 
> ...


So how much did you pay for that stuff?


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## Matador-IV (Aug 2, 2010)

Originally Posted by DIRT BOY 
I want to thank fb for the free sample to test out Chain-L lube.

We have had many debates on chain lubes and I for one, basically disliked to hated most store bought chain-lubes I have tried. One reason or another, I just did don't care for them.

I have been using several combinations on how brew chain lubes the last 8 yrs. with GRAT success. Whether its my own concoction, or a dive form engineers, mech, etc in many fields that deal with friction and/or lubrication for a dive and different types of oils.

In January of this year year, I received a sample of Chain-L lube from fb. I was going to purchase to test it myself, but I was given free sample. Being in the industry, I get free samples, cost and what not on a lot of stuff. I will only ride/use what I truly like. Even if it mean s paying full retail. So a small free sample is NOT going to cloud my judgement.





Jay Strongbow said:


> So how much did you pay for that stuff?


Let me help you with your reading comprehension (see highlighted).....


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Matador-IV said:


> Originally Posted by DIRT BOY
> I want to thank fb for the free sample to test out Chain-L lube.
> 
> We have had many debates on chain lubes and I for one, basically disliked to hated most store bought chain-lubes I have tried. One reason or another, I just did don't care for them.
> ...


And let me help you recognize when someone is being sarcastic and just kidding. I was being sarcastic and just kidding. cripes, could that have been any more obvious?


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## Matador-IV (Aug 2, 2010)

Well....I was actually piling on to your humor! :idea:

And like I highlighted, it's obvious he paid full retail.


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## supraholic (Oct 10, 2010)

Best lube ever!!!!!!! Nothing else out there can match this lube. 

I got a SRAM 1091 R chain and started with this lube. After 1500 miles, there is hardly any bearing wear.

It also makes the drivetrain smooth and QUIET!


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## FBinNY (Jan 24, 2009)

Thanks for all the good words. 

Here's a few answers straight from the horses mouth (or other end depending on who you ask)

1- the odor. What you smell isn't the base oil which smells like the mineral oil in the medicine cabinet. The odor is sulfur, one of the not so secret ingredients which serves to boost the film strength. Different people have different sensitivities to the odor, but most won't smell it the next day after applying and wiping off excess oil. If you still smell it you probably still have too much oil on then chain.

2- heating the chain definitely speeds the the oil's penetration (we don't use volatile solvents to thin it), but isn't necessary. Given time it'll wick in completely on it's own. But the excess oil is definitely easier to wipe off while the chain is still warm, so warming is an advantage if convenient.

3- a newly oiled chain will splatter some excess because it's hard to wipe it off completely, but it shouldn't be much. Be sure to run the chain very slowly as you first wipe down, which will cut down on the spatter. Later as the chain seems wiped down enough, then you can run it faster as you finish. Keep wiping until you don't see any oil spinning off at the RD pulleys. 

You can also reduce spatter and wipe off effort by using less (it pains me to say this) in the first place. Most experienced users can oil 20-30 chains with a 4oz. bottle, which gives an idea of how little to apply. 

You'll still need to clean the chain with a dry rag from time to time, mostly at first. It's fairly easy. If you look at the chain and think, "gee, it's dirty" run it through a rag for a minute. Pretty soon there'll be no more loose oil and the chain will stay clean by itself.

Chain-L isn't magic. The secret is that while most lubes have thinners to speed penetration, or so they'll double as a cleaner, we thickened it and added adhesives so once it's inside the chain it'll stay put.


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## config (Aug 16, 2002)

How do I purchase a bottle? I live overseas and have an APO P.O. box.



FBinNY said:


> Thanks for all the good words.
> 
> Here's a few answers straight from the horses mouth (or other end depending on who you ask)
> 
> ...


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

RE what FBNY said about the smell - after just a day or so it just isn't there any more. I transport my bike inside my car and would definitely notice it, but don't after riding a few times, and wiping the chain a couple of times after initial application.

I clean the outside of the chain thoroughly after initial application, then maybe once or twice in the first 5-10 rides. Then, I kind of forget about it. Like he said, if you think the chain looks dirty, just wipe it clean again. Me? I only dislike a totally black, thickly grunged chain. I like it fairly clean, but don't need it to be actually shiny. So, I probably just wipe it down a couple times more during the season if clean the bike and deraileurs when I'm feeling OCD.


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## dodger150 (Feb 15, 2005)

Camilo said:


> RE what FBNY said about the smell - after just a day or so it just isn't there any more. I transport my bike inside my car and would definitely notice it, but don't after riding a few times, and wiping the chain a couple of times after initial application.


That's good to hear and a good test. Thanks also to FB for the technical explanation. Odor was about the only reservation I had. Although my nose may not object, my wife is a different story when it comes to 'her' house


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

The stuff works. 

Quit sniffin your chain.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

config said:


> How do I purchase a bottle? I live overseas and have an APO P.O. box.


Chain-L Lube Buy Now


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## FBinNY (Jan 24, 2009)

config said:


> How do I purchase a bottle? I live overseas and have an APO P.O. box.


It's available through the site. We ship worldwide, but APO and FPO addresses are treated as if they're within the USA so it's $12.00 including postage.

One fringe benefit of our no solvent formula, is that it's considered non-flammable (though it can burn) and is legal for shipment by air or through the mails.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

FB do you happen to know Mike from wheelfine imports outside Lambertville?


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

I have been waiting for 6 months for this review, and you couldn't run the spell check?

I am just effing with you, I think your posts are GRAT!


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## FBinNY (Jan 24, 2009)

Happen to know????

I've known mike for 20+ years. He was one of the original testers for me back when I was beta testing it, and was selling it before I had labels and put it on the market officially. He wanted to sell it without label, as his secret formula, but in the end I decided that I wanted to develop my own brand awareness.

Wheelfine is a great shop (looks aside) and Mike is one of a very few mechanics I'd ever allow to work on a bike without checking up on him. To anyone along the Delaware north of Phila who needs a wheel built, Mike has my wholehearted endorsement. (don't tell him I said that he might charge you more)


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## martinrjensen (Sep 23, 2007)

Thats excellent. Similar to what I do only a little different but heat is involved. I heat 90 wt (or higher) up to almost boiling then drop the chain in it for a while (hour or two), then pull it out, hang, wipe it of and let it hang overnight. No splattering.


PlatyPius said:


> I put on the Chain-L and then pop the chain in the toaster oven in the shop for a few minutes on low heat. That gets the lube in there quickly for shop use. Then I let it cool and hang the chain from a hook in the shop (there's a pan underneath to catch any excess lube). Then I wipe the chain off, install it, and pretty much ignore it for 1000+ miles.
> 
> I've never gotten any lube on my wheels, either.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

They smell is not overbearing. It faded within a day or so. But I keep my bike in the garage.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

FBinNY said:


> It's available through the site. We ship worldwide, but APO and FPO addresses are treated as if they're within the USA so it's $12.00 including postage.
> 
> One fringe benefit of our no solvent formula, is that it's considered non-flammable (though it can burn) and is legal for shipment by air or through the mails.


Before I get into my mailing story, I have to ask, why did you change the label to say just Chain-L rather than Chain-L no. 5? I liked the old label! Classier 

Thank goodness about the mailing though! A few weeks ago, I mailed a bottle to a friend. I didn't give it a thought at the time, but thenm afterwards had the thought that I'd done something illegal. I taped the lid cap, double bagged it, wrapped it up in bubble wrap and put it in a little box, so I was't worried about anything leaking out, but you never know with the USPS. I once got a very nasty letter when I sent a few bottles of booze through USPS and something broke and leaked in transit. I know, I know, I was young and clueless, really a stupid thing to do, but the nasty letter did threaten prosecution, illegal to ship liquids, etc.

Friend got Chain-L OK though.


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## GirchyGirchy (Feb 12, 2004)

Camilo said:


> Before I get into my mailing story, I have to ask, why did you change the label to say just Chain-L rather than Chain-L no. 5? I liked the old label! Classier


I can think of one reason....


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## FBinNY (Jan 24, 2009)

GirchyGirchy said:


> I can think of one reason....


Actually, you're about half right.

The Chain-L #5 parody label, probably falls within established "fair use" guidelines so I've never been sued over it. But the definition of fair use is much more restrictive in Europe and, as we grew, I became concerned about the possibility of a lawsuit there.

In any case, I never expected to stay with the parody label which was started as a lark, because so many of the early testers in New York, mispronounced the name.

After 3 years, I thought the joke was getting stale, and felt it might become a liability as we expanded the line, so I dropped the #5 in 2011.


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## FBinNY (Jan 24, 2009)

Camilo said:


> A few weeks ago, I mailed a bottle to a friend. I didn't give it a thought at the time, but thenm afterwards had the thought that I'd done something illegal. .... illegal to ship liquids, etc.
> 
> Friend got Chain-L OK though.


There's no general prohibition about shipping liquids, However, there is a requirement that they're properly packed to prevent or contain leakage. Because so much mail moves by air and there;s no way of keeping certain boxes off airplanes, air restrictions apply to all mail. That means no caustic, flammable, or otherwise hazardous commodities can be mailed. 

You got into trouble last time because there's also a restriction on shipping beer, wine and liquor across state lines without proper permits. Here it isn't so much postal regulations, but on of state liquor taxes.

I often give wine as gifts, but don't take any chances, and order from third parties who can legally send it to my friends. 

BTW- the PO, or FAA rarely (if ever) prosecutes first offenses, but instead sends those warning letters, I don't know what they do for 2nd offenses, like you, I never go that far.


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## stevoo (Oct 26, 2011)

Waiting for my bottle of Chain L to arrive. Like many others I have used lots of chain lubes over the years from home brew to dry to wet etc. I am interested in the lubrication qualities of Chain L and if it will last long and stay reasonably clean. That is a really tall order. Once I use it on my mtn bikes and road bikes I will share results.


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## redlude97 (Jun 29, 2010)

Picked up some Chain-L no 5 from the LBS and applied it to a new chain yesterday. Left if overnight and when to wipe it down this morning to remove the majority of the excess(off the bike). There is still quite a bit on the outside that is sticky and impossible to remove. Should I leave that or can I hit it with a tiny bit of OMS?


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## FBinNY (Jan 24, 2009)

redlude97 said:


> Picked up some Chain-L no 5 from the LBS and applied it to a new chain yesterday. Left if overnight and when to wipe it down this morning to remove the majority of the excess(off the bike). There is still quite a bit on the outside that is sticky and impossible to remove. Should I leave that or can I hit it with a tiny bit of OMS?


*From the horse's mouth*...

Either way is fine. If you leave the film on, it will attract dirt, but if it's only a film (not enough to come off on your finger) whatever dirt will take up the tack and stay in place. It's self limiting, in a way similar to dirty Scotch tape, once the dust takes up the tack it isn't sticky anymore.

Or you may dampen a rag with OMS or other petroleum solvent and give it a quick pass to remove the surface film.

The decision probably depends on where you ride. I commute daily, and would rather have a dusty film on the chain for rain, but if I lived near the beach I'd wouldn't want sand sticking here and would solvent wipe the plates.

Note, that either way, a newly oiled chain will probably weep some excess oil at first and need a rewipe after the first few rides. Typically people seem to need to wipe the chains about 2-3 times during the lube life cycle, mostly early on, then not again.


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## sandan (Oct 14, 2004)

FBinNY said:


> Actually, you're about half right.
> 
> The Chain-L #5 parody label, probably falls within established "fair use" guidelines so I've never been sued over it. But the definition of fair use is much more restrictive in Europe and, as we grew, I became concerned about the possibility of a lawsuit there.
> 
> ...


Well in that case, I'm not going to trash the "parody label" bottle when it's empty. Might end up being a collectors item. Maybe it's on your site, but rather than the toaster oven, just put the bottle in a pot of hot water for a few minutes, it thins out nicely applies easily and evenly. Then as has been posted wipe off slowly, increase speed until no spatter from RD pulleys or chainring.

Bottom line the stuff rocks!


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## redlude97 (Jun 29, 2010)

Just wanted to throw in my quick review. I've been a prolink user for the last 2-3 years and have been very happy with the product, only gripe is I felt that it needed reapplication after 1-200 miles. Was swapping a new cassette and chain onto the bike and decided to give Chain-L a try since the LBS mechanics loved it. Didn't soak the chain in solvent to remove the factory lube like they recommended but applied the Chain-L to the new chain off the bike. Went for a couple rides this weekend and the chain has never been so quiet! Wiped it down with a tiny bit of OMS before the rides and it was fairly clean after ~100miles, mostly with some grime on the inside of the plates where I couldn't wipe the excess easily.


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## stevoo (Oct 26, 2011)

Received my Chain L last Friday and dutifully degreased 6 chains and lubed em up. Got a cold at the same time so I have not had a chance to ride just yet to see how it works.

First thing I noticed is that Chain L looks, smells and acts a lot like GL5 hypoid gear oil. I keep my bikes in the house so I did notice the familiar sulphur like gear oil smell. Probably will go away with time. Drivetrain is also nice and quiet.

Got a number of bikes ready to go, just need to get feeling better and then off to the road / trails.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

After reading this thread I decided to give Chain-L a try and ordered the 1oz trial size for $4 a couple weeks ago. 
I like the bottle that the trial size comes in. It has a sealed top that you have to cut open. I used a large safety pin to poke a hole in it. I could then precicely get one drop out at a time. It was easy to apply right on the roller and made no mess at all. The instructions say to "Oil generously". But after reading some of the posts of it being messy I decided not to.. 

I removed my chain and soaked it in mineral spirits to strip it clean. Then washed in soapy water, rinsed, followed by drying it in the oven.

Laid the chain out on newspaper, roller side up and applied one drop to each roller.
Waited 10min, flipped it over and applied one drop to the other side of each roller.
It sat over night and I put it on the bike the next day. Spun the cranks a few times then wiped down the outside of the chain with a dry rag. 
There was a nice film on the outside of the chain but not heavily coated. Kinda sticky to the touch, but not wet.
The chain was quiet. Really QUIET. 

I've put 100mi on it so far. It's still perfectly quiet. I've yet to find a lube that kept the chain this quiet after 100mi.
I don't notice any change in shifting performance. But my shifts have always been crisp anyway.

And now for the big shocker. At least to me anyway. After 100mi I took a rag and wiped down the chain. I can't believe how clean it was. No the rag wasn't white, but I've never had a lube remain that clean. There's a disclaimer in the instructions that if you like a clean chain you may be disappointed. Perhaps it's because I didn't "Oil generously". I like a clean chain. But if this is what "dirty" looks like, I like being dirty.

So far I'm really impressed. I'm looking forward to the next couple hundred miles! 



dodger150 said:


> Can you comment on any odor it may give off? Like many folks here, I store my bikes in my house (a spare bedroom in my case). I think I read somewhere that it gave off a rather strong petroleum smell (unfortunately I can't find the old thread). Is it any worse than other lubes you have used?


I lubed my chain in my living room while watching TV. I barely noticed any smell at all.
My bike is stored in the basement. I never notice any smell while going down there.
I transport my bike in the back seat of my car. I haven't noticed any smell at all.


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## stevoo (Oct 26, 2011)

Finally got some miles on my new chain L lubed chains.
I too noticed that the drivetrain stays quiet.

You must really wipe the heck out of the chain prior to riding or you get some oil fling off. No problem on the mountain bikes as the dust blots up any excess and prevents that from happening. On the road bikes you really have to be diligent about this. On the road tandem the extra oil was hard to get off of the timing rings as they do not go through the angle change as the drive side does. All the extra bends on the drive side allow you to get more of the excess oil off so no problem there. The extra oil flig off from the timing side actually got up onto my disc brake rotor, not good. Once wiped down after the first 100 mile ride no more fling off. Just something to learn from.

So far the lube is working well. Got a few hundred mles on it and I just wipe the chain down. Staying quite clean too. Still seems to be lubed well. So far so good.

The smell seems to have gone away with time. It was quite strong after initial application. Smelled like my garage when I rebuild transmissions. Problem is that I keep my bikes in the house. Good thing the smell seems to go away after riding for a while.


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## nickt30 (Nov 29, 2008)

*Chain-L revisited*

i got a sample of this from the rep a few years ago.......i tried it on my cx bike thinking if it is that great then cyclocros would be a nice test. It attracted so much sand that the chain sounded and felt horrible.

Back to prolink. It does not last. I drip on and wipe off every 2-3 rides. Easier then topping off the tires with air. My cahin alwayts looks new and is absolutly quiet. So all of a sudden i get a noisy chain during hard efforts. I chech the chain "stretch" (inaccurate term but i am using it reguardless) and it showed some slight wear. The chain is clean enough that the mis match of the chain pins to the chain ring teeth created a noise and was not masked by the sounds of a dirty chain. 

Then i read this thread and i dig out my bottle of Chain-L and one application an the chain was instanlty slilenced.

The Chain-L in this case is such a wonderful lubricant that it eliminated the noise of the worn drivetrain. 
I am impressed and will test this lube again frurther.


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## ddimick (Aug 9, 2011)

I wiped down but did not clean a chain where I was running the green Finish Line wet lube. Applied Chain-L and it ran quiet for about 500 miles. Not too bad considering I live by the ocean and climb a ton. That's longer than anything else has lasted so far. I've now done a thorough cleaning of the chain and reapplied Chain-L, I'm curious to see if it lasts longer now that the chain was better prepped.


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## FBinNY (Jan 24, 2009)

ddimick said:


> I
> I've now done a thorough cleaning of the chain and reapplied <b class='translationId'>Chain-L</b>, I'm curious to see if it lasts longer now that the chain was better prepped.


It should last longer if you completely dried the chain (inside and out) before oiling, otherwise it won't last as long.


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## paulfeng (Jun 10, 2011)

*Question for FBinNY*



FBinNY said:


> It should last longer if you completely dried the chain (inside and out) before oiling, otherwise it won't last as long.


Ok, so I am on my first ~150 miles of my Chain-L lubed chain. The chain had 1000 miles on the original factory lube and another brand of lube. So far so good.

Before applying the Chain-L, I removed the chain and did a mineral spirits cleaning, and allowed plenty of time (days) for the spirits to evaporate away, then after applying Chain-L, allowed it plenty of time (many more days) to work its way in before installing the chain.

I figure to go 1000 miles before rotating to another chain (I'm rotating through a set of three chains 1000 miles at a time, in the hope that I am wearing down my cogs and chainrings more slowly. Not sure if it will work or if I'm a sucker.)

My question: After 1000 miles on my chain, should I do another complete mineral spirits cleaning and reapplication of new Chain-L, or should I skip the deep clean and just wipe off the chain, apply more Chain-L, wipe, wipe, wipe.


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## FBinNY (Jan 24, 2009)

paulfeng said:


> I figure to go 1000 miles before rotating to another chain (I'm rotating through a set of three chains 1000 miles at a time, in the hope that I am wearing down my cogs and chainrings more slowly. Not sure if it will work or if I'm a sucker.)
> 
> My question: After 1000 miles on my chain, should I do another complete mineral spirits cleaning and reapplication of new Chain-L, or should I skip the deep clean and just wipe off the chain, apply more Chain-L, wipe, wipe, wipe.


I'm a big believer in rotating multiple chains, and it definitely has paid off in cassette life. Plus since you're not planning to ever add a new chain, you can take all chains and th cassette well past the 1/2% replace chain guideline.

Since you're pulling the chain anyway, you have plenty of time to soak it in mineral spirits, was it thoroughly, and dry it for weeks before oiling. I run 4 chains for my commuter, and wash and oil them in pairs or (when I get lazy) in threes.


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

I'm glad this thread showed up again. Reminded me that I'm getting close to needing to order another bottle of Chain-L. 

Originally purchased a bottle to lube my freehub. Turned out it was too thin for that application so I put the bottle away as I thought I was sold on another brand of chain lube. The other lube was gunking (is that a word?) up everything and that's when I knew it was time to try something else. 

Read some other posters recommended application process for Chain-L and thought I would give it a try. I removed my chain and thoroughly cleaned it and the pulleys. 

After letting the chain dry I set it out in the hot sun along with the bottle of Chain-L. After both of them were nice and warm I laid the chain flat on some newspaper and put a drop on each roller and let it set to soak in. The heat really helps the oil penetrate.

After letting it set for a while I hung it up and let the rest (very little actually) drip off and then wiped off the rest. 

To make a long story even longer, this stuff *rocks*. I wipe my chain after every ride and when the rag goes dry I do another thorough cleaning and re-apply. 

Oh yeah, no splatter on seat or chain stays. Everything stays clean.


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## crashracer (May 10, 2004)

Buy gear-oil. It's the same.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

crashracer said:


> Buy gear-oil. It's the same.


No it's not.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

crashracer said:


> Buy gear-oil. It's the same.


Proving just how little you really know...


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

crashracer said:


> Buy gear-oil. It's the same.


Epic fail is epically epic.


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## camping biker (Dec 22, 2011)

I thought the Chain-L was some kind of internet prank first time I heard of it. hahaha. I ordered a $4 trial size. I ride in dusty conditions and don't want to remove chains or go through rituals to clean them. Whatever I use, basically I soak the chain in it, then just do the wipe and reapply thing till its a goner, maybe use brushes if it's really full of crap (mud, or literally crap like horse crap from the trails).


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## camping biker (Dec 22, 2011)

For the $4 "trial size" I got 2 little bottles, when they promised one. Cool! It's a really thick oil, dark amber. I will post back after trying some for a month or so.


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## FBinNY (Jan 24, 2009)

camping biker said:


> For the $4 "trial size" I got 2 little bottles, when they promised one. Cool! It's a really thick oil, dark amber. I will post back after trying some for a month or so.


I send 2 bottles instead of one, hoping people will give the 2nd to a friend. The trial pogram doesn't make money since almost 1/2 goes to postage alone. Sending a 2nd bottle doesn't raise the postage, so if people share, I get two bites at the apple for the same price.


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## camping biker (Dec 22, 2011)

That's what I figured. If I like something, I tell everybody and buy it for a long time. I will try it for a while and see what I think. If I like it, I'll order some more and make gifts out of the little bottles. Even if I don't like it, I'll give it away to a friend who wants to try it. Sharing new products is part of the fun of biking. I've gotten a lot of tires that people "just hated" which I enjoyed. Thanks for the extra bottle.


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## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

Anybody try Chain L for their freehub? ZIPP recommends Mobil 1 for theirs. Seem kind of silly to buy a quart of motor oil just to use a few drops.


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## Agent319 (Jul 12, 2012)

Motor oil is a great oil to help reduce friction. However it's viscosity prevents it from getting into the smaller regions that a bike chain has. 

I use Automatic transmission fluid. Here is why;

ChevronTexaco Havoline® MERCON® V Automatic Transmission Fluid


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## NealH (May 2, 2004)

Motor oil is generally too thick to penetrate well unless one spends the time to soak the chain well, while moving the chain around the cogs to help work it in. To resolve this issue, most people cut the motor oil about 3:1 with mineral spirits to thin it up some and help it get into those tight places quicker. The mineral spirits will gradually dry leaving the oil film (with its additives) as a lubricant. If one of the additives is PTFE (teflon), it will then work into the pores of the metal creating ideally a virtually frictionless interface. For metal to metal lubrication that is not under pressure, few ingredients provide better results. 

ATF is designed as a hydraulic fluid medium first, with some additives (or chemistry) to complete the required actions (rapid wetting, lube or boundary layer, heat removal, anti-oxidation, cleaner, minimize wear, etc). ATF does have an ideal viscosity for penetration, as it needs to for a transmission since it must rapidly wet the surfaces and provide a boundary layer. When under pressure as in a automatic transmission, the boundary layer provides the primary lubrication (fluid interface) which is ideal in this application as it greatly minimizes wear. You certainly don't want to be changing your transmission as often as you change your chain. 

Since the typical bike application doesn't include a pressurized system, then there is metal to metal wear. This is minimized by reducing the metal/metal friction. It would be great if a boundary layer could be set up and maintained but, it can't in an open system. So adding special lubricating ingredients like PTFE (and/or many other friction reducers) provide the very low friction interface. Grease is probably the most preferable component as it can promote a boundary layer in an open system like the bike chain. This is why Shimano prelubes their chains with grease. Its great for a while but it will also eventually wear or work its way out (all the while getting dirty and dirtier). Disassembling a chain to re-grease is not in our cards so we must seek other lubricating options. 

Does ATF work well in a bike application? I have no doubt it will, as bike chain duty is a very light duty in the wide breath of mechanical drive trains. It goes in and wets the surfaces quickly and, if it has the right ingredients then it could provide very good lubricating qualities. However, it would need to be applied more frequently but most cyclist apply chain lubes frequently regardless of the brand and/or type they use. I think from a pure metal/metal lubricating standpoint, other options will provide better overall results - or should I say more desirable results.


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## .je (Aug 25, 2012)

NealH, you sound very knowledgeable about gear lubes. 
I have some leftover manual transmission oil (vw g70 gear oil, GL-4), is this good? 
It's probably developed to lube under shear as well. Otherwise I don't know what do to with the 150mL I have left of this stuff.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

NealH said:


> bike chain duty is a very light duty in the wide breath of mechanical drive trains.


As a general statement, true. But when you look at torque (pedal force x crank length), a bicycle chain can be subjected to extremely high stresses compared to many industrial applications.

The reason is that in many industrial applications, shaft rpms are often in the thousands and, unlike a bicycle, final drive is accomplished through reduction gearing (the bicycle equivalent would be a tiny chainwheel driving a huge rear cog). European law requires derailleur bicycle chains to withstand a force of 10,000 newton, which is huge amount of force in the chain-drive context.

For lube, this means that the very high pressures generated by those forces will break it down in short order if it's inappropriate.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

wim said:


> As a general statement, true. But when you look at torque (pedal force x crank length), a bicycle chain can be subjected to extremely high stresses compared to many industrial applications.
> ... European law requires derailleur bicycle chains to withstand a force of 10,000 newton, which is huge amount of force in the chain-drive context.
> ... For lube, this means that the very high pressures generated by those forces will break it down in short order if it's inappropriate.


10,000 N = 2248 pounds of force, which seems a ridiculously high breaking strength. But given the abuse an Average Joe gives to his bike -- corrosive beach sand, rust, never cleaned, never lubed -- maybe it's for the best.

Assume 200 lb cyclist exerting full body weight on pedals, 175mm (R~7") crankarms, 34t chainring (R~2.5"), tension on the chain would be
200 x (7/2.5) ~ 560 lbs,
a 4:1 safety margin.

Lubricants intended for extreme pressure and where metal-to-metal contact may occur, contain high % of zinc and phosphorous compounds (~1%, IIRC).

Unfortunately "modern" engine oils, unlike oils a few years ago, have little Zn/P because it may shorten lifetime of catalytic converters.

To extend lifetime of my non-roller cam, pushrod engine cars, I add a Zinc/Phos additive at each oil change to boost levels to the 1500-2000 ppm level of the "good old days". 

Also, thick SAE80 "gear" oils typically do have lots of Zn/P.

Would a bike chain lube with high levels of Zn/P be advantageous? I dunno ... I've toyed with idea of adding some Zn/P additive to my homebrew chain lube (SAE 30 air compressor oil + Naptha).


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

deleted


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

NealH said:


> Motor oil is generally too thick to penetrate well unless one spends the time to soak the chain well, while moving the chain around the cogs to help work it in. To resolve this issue, most people cut the motor oil about 3:1 with mineral spirits to thin it up some and help it get into those tight places quicker. The mineral spirits will gradually dry leaving the oil film (with its additives) as a lubricant. If one of the additives is PTFE (teflon), it will then work into the pores of the metal creating ideally a virtually frictionless interface. For metal to metal lubrication that is not under pressure, few ingredients provide better results. ...
> 
> ... Since the typical bike application doesn't include a pressurized system, then there is metal to metal wear. This is minimized by reducing the metal/metal friction. It would be great if a boundary layer could be set up and maintained but, it can't in an open system. So adding special lubricating ingredients like PTFE (and/or many other friction reducers) provide the very low friction interface. .... .


NealH,

The established additives for reduce metal wear when metal-to-metal contact might occur, are Zinc & Phosphorous containing compounds (like ZDDP).

I am skeptical of efficacy of "teflon". Gear oils and racing-only engine oils do contain lots of Zn/P, not "teflon" <ACRONYM title="As far as I know">AFAIK</ACRONYM>. 

Modern engine oils have drastically reduced Zn/P content to lengthen lifetime of emissions controls. On my non-roller cam pushrod engines, I always add a Zn/P additive to get levels back up to the 1500 ppm range, like "good" oils used to have.​


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## NealH (May 2, 2004)

Well, I'm no expert and you might be right Tom. Bicycle chain duty would seem to be closer to gear duty than motor duty where temperature, oxidation, pressure, emissions and a number of other things come into play...not to mention the clogging properties of a solid filler like Teflon. But on a bike chain.... I still think Teflon has applicability in this application. Velonews just published a study showing it provided the lowest friction in their test set-up and they evaluated a number of oils and concoctions on a chain. The zinc-phosphorus will probably do the same thing, and maybe several other friction reducer additives. The bottom line is for bike chain duty, I suspect it will take a laboratory environment to show any of the hip chain oils are any better than the classic 3 in 1 oil.

Its an interesting subject and field.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

NealH said:


> ... The bottom line is for bike chain duty, I suspect it will take a laboratory environment to show any of the hip chain oils are any better than the classic 3 in 1 oil...


Yep ;-)
It's suprising to me why such a _relatively _un-demanding application like a bike chain, generates so much controversy!


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

tom_h said:


> Yep ;-)
> It's suprising to me why such a _relatively _un-demanding application like a bike chain, generates so much controversy!


It's always interesting how much the engineers like to talk about bike chain lube. I'm probably an idiot because I think that if the "perfect lube" (if there is one), say, scores a 10 of 10 on some scale, "any lube at all" probably scores a 9, the only critical factors being that it's lube and is applied regularly. Everything else is personal preference and aesthetics (appearance of gunk on the outside of the chain, which BTW can be easily and quickly wiped off).


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Has anyone ever tried Marvel Mystery Oil on their chains?


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

SauronHimself said:


> Has anyone ever tried Marvel Mystery Oil on their chains?


Never on my bike. Basically, MMO is light oil + mineral spirits.

From the MSDS,
*
COMPONENT CONCENTRATION (wt %)​*Naphthenic Hydrocarbons 70 – 80
Mineral Spirits 20 – 30
Chlorinated Hydrocarbons 0 – 1​


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## Doug B (Sep 11, 2009)

SauronHimself said:


> Has anyone ever tried Marvel Mystery Oil on their chains?


Yep. I used marvel mystery oil for three years. My chain had in excess of 7000 miles before I changed it. No noticeable wear on the cassette. A tiny bit or wear on the large chain ring, but no shifting problems or other problems I can tell. I did change out the chain. It had stretched about .75 inches over three years. 

I'm using a 50-50 mix of Castro synthetic motor oil and marvel now. The marvel seems to penetrate well. The castrol makes it a little thicker. I re- apply oil to the chain about every 200 miles, or once a week if it's dry. Or, anytime I ride in the rain. 

I wipe the chain down using a rag when I re- apply oil, and only do a thorough chain cleaning about three times a year. 

Works well for me. $10 in oil has and will last me in excess of ten years.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Well, I jumped on the Chail-L bandwagon and bought a couple bottles on-line. The guy sent me two half oz samples as well. Thus far, I've applied it to two bikes this weekend, and a third last night. None have been ridden yet. 

It's curious stuff, unlike any chain lube I've tried -- and I've tried plenty. It has the consistency of honey. I find that heating the bottle in hot water helps when applying it. The stuff is almost sticky and reminds me of the lube that chains come with, new in the box. 

Is it really good for 1000 miles? For me, probably not because I tend to get caught in rain storms that trash my bike, making a cleaning necessary. But its only $2 more ($12 vs $10) to what I have been using (Rock N Roll).


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

pmf said:


> I find that heating the bottle in hot water helps when applying it. The stuff is almost sticky and reminds me of the lube that chains come with, new in the box.


That's a great idea. I'll have to try that next time. 



> Is it really good for 1000 miles? For me, probably not because I tend to get caught in rain storms that trash my bike, making a cleaning necessary.


My last application was at 900mi and the chain just started getting noisy. With all dry riding conditions. I'd imagine rain would reduce it some.


I use a syringe to apply it to the chain. Makes it easy to put the lube right between the roller and plate so it wicks into the pin. I apply it once, one drop on each end of the roller. Let it soak in, flip the chain and do it again. If I only do one application I get ~500-600mi. If I doit twice, it's up to 1000mi.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

I've been tracking chain lube intervals since switching to Chain-L...

under dry conditions, the shortest was 477 miles, the longest was 756.

when I used Triflow, it was sometimes as often as 75 miles.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

Since this thread started, Velonews (print edition) March 2013 published a chain lube article with data from www.friction-facts.com .
The article is available for download @ Friction Facts.

Actual power losses for various commercial lubes were measured. 

The Friction Facts website describes their chain test setup in some detail. They claim +/-0.25 watts accuracy over a 50 to 350 watts load.

Unfortunately, some popular lubes like 'home brew' or even Marvel Mystery Oil were _not _included. But based on the published results, I think we'll be able to easily guesstimate ;-)

The vast majority of all lubes had chain losses of 5.0 - 7.0 watts, a remarkably tight range. There were a few outliers, but even including that, the total range was 4.8 - 8 watts.

The often disparaged WD40 aerosol was 7.0 W loss. The often hyped Chain-L was 6.1 W loss.

There are very few of us who would ever benefit from these tiny differences -- maybe if you're an elite, national or world class time trialist. Rolling resistance and aerodynamics are far more significant, on an other wise well-maintained bike & drive train.

My conclusion is, pretty much any lube will have practically identical performance on an uncritical application like a bike chain (low RPM, low power). Any lube is always better than no lube.

Me -- I'll just keep using my version of 'home brew' because it's convenient & economical for me: approx 3:1 = Naptha : 30W Oil


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

tom_h said:


> Since this thread started, Velonews (print edition) March 2013 published a chain lube article with data from www.friction-facts.com .
> The article is available for download @ Friction Facts.


Here's the article.
velo-friction_facts_lube_test



They did an efficiency test and longevity test. It's odd that they only posted results for a few of the lubes from the longevity test. Chain-L not being one of them. And the longevity test was only 60min. Heck, that's not even a single ride. 



Velonews said:


> We tested eight of the lubes for longevity, simulating a single dirty, wet ride and testing efficiency
> before and after. Each of the eight was chosen as a representative of a certain lube type. For


That's VERY unscientifc. 1 heavy lube, 4 light, 1 grease, and 2 dry.
No light lubes without teflon. No dry lubes with teflon. No heavy lubes without ceramic. 
Not a good way of representing "Types" of lubes.


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## AndreyT (Dec 1, 2011)

tom_h said:


> There are very few of us who would ever benefit from these tiny differences -- maybe if you're an elite, national or world class time trialist. Rolling resistance and aerodynamics are far more significant, on an other wise well-maintained bike & drive train.


Well, this is exactly why when we are talking about chain lubes the matter of their performance impact does not really come up (in fact, anyone who'd claim that it makes a difference for them would be laughed out of the forum in a heartbeat).

The main issue is the wear of the chain and wear of the other drivetrain components that come in contact with the chain. One can, of course, argue that the level of power loss is a good measure of parasitic friction and thus a good measure of overall wear. But I'd say that the relationship is only that straightforward in laboratory conditions, not in real life rides.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

AndreyT said:


> Well, this is exactly why when we are talking about chain lubes the matter of their performance impact does not really come up (in fact, anyone who'd claim that it makes a difference for them would be laughed out of the forum in a heartbeat).


nah, people post all manner of ridiculous stuff on this board and I haven't seen anyone be shamed into retirement yet...


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

pmf said:


> Well, I jumped on the Chail-L bandwagon and bought a couple bottles on-line. The guy sent me two half oz samples as well. Thus far, I've applied it to two bikes this weekend, and a third last night. None have been ridden yet.
> 
> It's curious stuff, unlike any chain lube I've tried -- and I've tried plenty. It has the consistency of honey. I find that heating the bottle in hot water helps when applying it. The stuff is almost sticky and reminds me of the lube that chains come with, new in the box.
> 
> Is it really good for 1000 miles? For me, probably not because I tend to get caught in rain storms that trash my bike, making a cleaning necessary. But its only $2 more ($12 vs $10) to what I have been using (Rock N Roll).


1) Put your clean chain in the toaster oven.
2) Apply Chain-L to warm chain
3) Bake lubed chain in toaster oven for a few minutes
4) Let cool, wipe, replace on bike.
5) Profit

The heat helps the lube to suck up into the pins/rollers and lubes the chain from the interior. It works amazingly well.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Here's an update on my Chain-L results. I'm rotating 2 chains every ~2500mi. Chain #1 just reached 5,000mi. I measured it for wear and it appears to be maybe 1/64". Pretty impressive so far.
Table below shows mileage between Chain-L applications. I tend to apply it on the light side and it looks to be about 650mi on average between applications. The 957mi interval was in the summer during a dry spell. Some of the other intervals had wet rides but I didn't log when they were, so I don't know which may have been affected. (Wet rides would have been wet roads, mist, fog, drizzle. I haven't been caught in a full on rain)


  Chain #1   Chain #2    0     Apply Chain L  1026     Reapply Chain L  1443  417    Reapply Chain L  1950  507    Remove Chain #1  2430     New Chain #2    0   Apply Chain L    570  570  Reapply Chain L    1250  680  Reapply Chain L    2050  800  Remove Chain #2    2781   Replace Chain #1  2430     Reapply Chain L  3387  957    Reapply Chain L  4020  633    Reapply Chain L  4719  699    Remove Chain #1  5079    

5,000mi wear on chain #1...


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

tlg said:


> ... Chain #1 just reached 5,000mi. I measured it for wear and it appears to be maybe 1/64". Pretty impressive so far.
> ...


Unclear how you're measuring chain elongation. 

Preferably measure between pins of 16 full links. At 0.50" pitch, an ideal chain would measure 8.00".

FYI, on Campy chains I lube with mixture of 30wt air compressor oil plus naphtha, measured w/ vernier caliper, elongation is typically under .02" over 8", <0.25%.

Campy specs chain wear by distance between the inside rollers of the ends of 6 full links. That seems to always reach spec limit first, not the overall elongation. Which is fine, since elongation is a key culprit in wearing out cassettes & chainrings.

I think chain cleanliness -- keeping it free of abrasive sand, dirt, etc -- is a bigger factor than the actual lube used.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

tom_h said:


> Unclear how you're measuring chain elongation.
> 
> Preferably measure between pins of 16 full links. At 0.50" pitch, an ideal chain would measure 8.00".


The preferred method is measuring 24 links with a ruler and replacing the chain at 1/2% elongation. I thought it was pretty clear that's what I was measuring. 22-10=12"



> I think chain cleanliness -- keeping it free of abrasive sand, dirt, etc -- is a bigger factor than the actual lube used.


Lube is the biggest factor. My results surely show that. The only cleaning I do is wipe down the outside of the chain every few hundred miles. I'm at 1/8% after 5k miles. Why would I bother taking time to clean it?


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## 195cranky (Jun 25, 2013)

Another very happy Chain L user. Tried many others and this by far last longer, performs better, and is berry berry quiet for way more miles than other garbage out there.

One of life's finest pleasures is a brand new chain, soaked clean to get factory gunk off, then on newspaper each link dripped then flipped and dripped again with CL, installed on bike, wipe down, go through all the gears, wipe down again, wipe down pulleys, ride 1 to 2x, wipe down, re-lube each link, wipe down again, and then ride the quietest/cleanest chain. So quiet you sneak up on other riders at speed, so quiet it is a whisper if you try hard to hear it, so quiet it is quiet. Sweet. Yes I do wipe down chain often but that is part of the fun bike prep rituals before bigger training rides or races. Wheel off and quick rag wipe between cassettes keeps that shiny, clean and shifting like butter.

Chains last longer with CL, especially 11 speeds with the narrower link and much higher contact pressures that squirts lube out each rotation. Being a clyde and possibly putting more pressure on each link makes for a need to have good lube. This is it. As far as smell, yeah...OK... a lit bit of sulfur. No biggee. Goes away quick. But hey, I like the smell of burnt 100 or 110 high octane off my race car motors so to each his own.

Highly recommend the stuff. Get many lubes for free and just give those away. I buy Chain L at full retail and don't regret it a bit. Met FB at InterBike a few times and the passion soaks through. Pun intended. Thanks FB for samples provided over the years and many have been shared with others. Thanks for a great product that works.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

I saw chain lube in the thread title and was thinking it was another thread by Gerry. Glad to see it's something I can actually learn from instead.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

No, I agree, this stuff really is the bee's knees. My Campy Record 11S chains last a reliable 6000 miles with it, and that's with re-lubing them roughly every 1000 miles. I'm running a Super Record cassette, too (the one with the titanium cogs on the two carriers), and my plan is to replace the cassette every other chain, meaning 12,000 miles per cassette. I just disassembled and cleaned my cassette after 6k miles, and there's practically no noticeable change in tooth profiles. I'll post back after my next chain change. If I still remember by then...


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

I crack up at these chain lube threads; why they generate so many strong opinions & controversy is beyond me. 

It's a classic case of Sayre's Law 
Sayre's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"_In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake_."

Consider my belt drive, air compressor. The compressor unit itself (not the electric motor), operates approximately at
-- 1.5 HP (1,125 watts) input.
-- around 300 rpm.
-- case temperatures about 120 ºF.
-- hours on end, continuously, for couple days per week.

and it runs perfectly fine after 10 years, with occasional changes of the straight 30 wt mineral oil in the crankcase.

And yet amateur cyclists, who can typically maybe output 250-ish watts for 20 minutes maximum @ 90 rpm, will endlessly debate the nuances of chain lubes ... as is it were bottles of $200 fine wines.

Consider the graph below of power losses in chains with various lubes, from the March 2013 issue of Velonews. The article featured data from the company "Friction Facts": Home page Friction Facts

Exclude "outlier" data from the high and low ends, and all lubes had power losses within the range 5.5-7.5 watts. Power losses correlate with friction, which is also a proxy for chain wear-out.

Chain-L was in the broad middle, having about 6.1 watts loss.

If you're pedaling at 200+ watts , think you'll notice a difference of +/- 1 watt from chain lube?!


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

I use Chain L.

it's easy to apply and makes the drivetrain feel silky and run silently.

it lasts a long time.

that is all.


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## 195cranky (Jun 25, 2013)

Don't need charts and graphs and meters to tell this is good stuff. Tom_h asks if we can tell a difference of 1 watt? No, I can't. But I sure as heck can tell a difference in a chain lube that lasts 100 miles, or only 3 rides, 300 miles, or even more than 800 miles which I often get with Chain L on a 11 speed Campy chain set up. So, excuse me! if we get passionate about a chain lube that lasts longer, performs better, is cleaner, and way quieter. 

Those are all noticeable differences found to be true over years of use. Yes, ymmv. Yes, you may laugh at us who post about good lube. Yes, I laugh cause you also posted on this lube thread. So, here's laughing at you Mr. Chart poster who takes it way too serious with your analysis, data, and references. Me, I just ride and can recognize lousy lube no longer lubing a chain versus a lube that lubes a chain well for longer. Want me to graph that out for you? Here you go...Chain L = two thumbs up!


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

tom_h said:


> I crack up at these chain lube threads; why they generate so many strong opinions & controversy is beyond me.
> 
> It's a classic case of Sayre's Law
> Sayre's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> ...



I haven't seen many people on here debating the power loss of various lubes (except you). I use Chain-L because it keeps the chain quieter than any other lube I've ever used. Plus, I don't have to reapply it after every ride - it's good for 1000 miles. That's all I care about.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

tom_h said:


> I crack up at these chain lube threads; why they generate so many strong opinions & controversy is beyond me.


Yet here YOU are with opinion. I posted my actual measured results. There's no controversy except what you're trying to create.



> And yet amateur cyclists, who can typically maybe output 250-ish watts for 20 minutes maximum @ 90 rpm, will endlessly debate the nuances of chain lubes ... as is it were bottles of $200 fine wines.


Who gives a flying F about watts. We're talking chain longevity.



> Consider the graph below of power losses in chains with various lubes, from the March 2013 issue of Velonews. The article featured data from the company "Friction Facts": Home page Friction Facts


That Velonews article was pure *crap*. Did you actually read it.. AND their testing methods... which sucked. It was discussed on here a while ago. http://forums.roadbikereview.com/general-cycling-discussion/chain-lube-308867-3.html#post4421759

If you look at the way they tested Chain-L, they submersed the chain in Chain-L, then ran it for a whole 5min. Well guess what? That's NOT the manufacturers method of application. It's a thick lube. Of course submersing a chain in that then running it for a whopping 5min isn't going to give optimal results. 
Let them run the test for 500miles then we can have a discussion.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

Does Chain L work well in dusty environments? If it does, I may just have to check it out.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

tom_h said:


> I crack up at these chain lube threads; why they generate so many strong opinions & controversy is beyond me.


Unsurprisingly so, since you seem unable to grasp what the thread was all about. As others have said, nobody gives a flying fart about the minute differences there may be in friction losses between different lubes. Why don't you read the thread again, and find out what it is we are interested in.


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## Z'mer (Oct 28, 2013)

tlg said:


> The only cleaning I do is wipe down the outside of the chain every few hundred miles. I'm at 1/8% after 5k miles. Why would I bother taking time to clean it?


It depends on your riding conditions. I use Chain-L, and wipe the chain after 1-2 rides, which is 25-70 miles. When I wipe it, with a cotton rag, I remove a lot of black "stuff", and the chain looks really clean for the next ride. Then, need to wipe it again, etc. The wipe takes 1 minute max. This lasts for maybe 500 miles, at which point I either re-lube, or remove and clean the chain then re-lube.

I ride on roads that see a lot of winter salt, sand, and have crappy shoulders that bring a ton of dust onto the road surface. 
When I rode on Cape Cod last summer it was worse, with ever present sand on the roads. So really depends on where you are at. 
But this stuff works better for me than anything else. My chain at maybe 2000 miles essentially has little or no wear. 
I will never use any chain lube with "wax" again.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Chain L is definitely the lube to beat in bad weather riding. I've used on my touring bike for about 2 years now and so far I like it far better than any of the typical wet lubes on the market. Having said that though I won't use it on my regular road bike because it seems to make that bike seem a wee bit sluggish as compared to other lubes I used. On the touring bike that very slight sluggishness is there but because it won't wash off in the first rain, nor fling black oil all over the bike, nor do I have to clean and relube the chain after a rain, so for touring purposes it's great. As far as chain wear goes, I have about 3200 miles on the touring bike chain and so far no measurable wear but this is an older wide style chain which lasts about 3 times longer than the more modern thinner chains. I'm still out on this stuff, not sure what to think, it does hold up very well in wet weather, it does make the chain run smooth and quiet but that's because it's a bit thicker than any lube I've tried so the thickness is causing the chain to behave that way which is probably why the bike feels ever so slightly more sluggish. The one huge negative I have for Chain L is that it is way overpriced for something that is similar (at least in how the lube strings) to STP, heck it could be a mix of STP, gear oil (due to the smell), and automatic transmission fluid as far as I know. I seriously doubt it's any new rocket science lube that has never been created before thus the rational for $15 a bottle. Some of you guys got it for free, but I had to pay for mine which means I doubt I'll get another bottle at those prices. I found another lube that works similar to Chain L any ways for a bit less called ProGold Extreme, but I haven't used it on the touring bike yet just the mtb.

For my new road bike I much prefer Rock N Roll Gold, it's thinner but keeps the chain really clean and doesn't give the bike that slight sluggish feeling. Also Rock N Roll is the cheapest of the 3 but it doesn't last as long as the other 2 thus over the long haul Rock N Roll will be the most expensive of the 3. So probably when I run out of Rock N Roll Gold I'll go back to ProGold Extreme for the road bike.

I too will never go back to wax crap either, sure the chain stays clean to the touch but what good is that if it only lasts around 70 miles? or it gets wet and the chain begins to rust because wax is not an oil thus no protection against rust.

I also agree that keeping the chain clean is more important than the lube you use, that's why I clean my touring bike chain about every 400 to 450 miles despite Chain L's claim of 900 miles. But Rock N Roll Gold only lasts about 120 miles so that chain has to be washed and reapply the lube; ProGold Extreme is in the middle of those 2, it lasts about 250 miles with an after every ride wipe down of the chain like I have to do with Chain L.

The sluggish feeling seems a wee bit more pronounced on the newer 10 speed chain bike vs the older 5 speed chain bike, which could be related to the fact the wider chain simply has more space between the links and gear teeth? vs using a much narrower chain with tighter tolerances? Maybe someone can answer that here.

Anyway that's my opinion of this stuff, but it is just an opinion.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

froze said:


> I seriously doubt it's any new rocket science lube that has never been created before thus the rational for $15 a bottle.
> 
> But Rock N Roll Gold only lasts about 120 miles so that chain has to be washed and reapply the lube;
> ProGold Extreme is in the middle of those 2, it lasts about 250 miles


Chain-L is $12 with free shipping Chain-L Lube Buy Now

I don't see why you think that's expensive. If it lasts 2-3x longer, then it's price per mile is actually 2-3x less. It's cheaper than both the lubes you mentioned.

Amazon.com : Rock-N-Roll Gold Chain Lube, 4oz : Bike Oils : Sports & Outdoors $7.80 for only 120mi? That's more expensive than Chain-L if you need to use 3x as much of it. Probably 4x as much.
Amazon.com : Progold Xtreme Chain Lube (4-Ounce) : Bike Oils : Sports & Outdoors $12 for 250mi? That's more expensive too if you're using it 2x as much.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

tlg said:


> Chain-L is $12 with free shipping Chain-L Lube Buy Now
> 
> I don't see why you think that's expensive. If it lasts 2-3x longer, then it's price per mile is actually 2-3x less. It's cheaper than both the lubes you mentioned.
> 
> ...


I understand, but I don't like the way Chain L feels on the road bikes, it has a sluggish feel to it; on the touring bike I don't notice it much at all.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

froze said:


> I understand, but I don't like the way Chain L feels on the road bikes, it has a sluggish feel to it; on the touring bike I don't notice it much at all.


Sluggish?

This is good.


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

I'm a chain-L user that is currently trying squirt-lube (dry wax based).. so far so good, but only 2 rides under the belt. Wax lube is really nice on the trainer bike which is where I used it first.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

tlg said:


> I don't see why you think that's expensive. If it lasts 2-3x longer, then it's price per mile is actually 2-3x less. It's cheaper than both the lubes you mentioned.


just checked the current interval between applications of Chain L...

839 miles.

that's easily 4x the mileage I've gotten using other products.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Oxtox said:


> just checked the current interval between applications of Chain L...
> 
> 839 miles.
> 
> that's easily 4x the mileage I've gotten using other products.


I would never let any oil stay on for that long on a chain, kind of like using synthetic oil in your engine and leaving it there for 40,000 miles. No matter how good the oil is it's going to collect dirt, and no matter how good the oil is that oil is not going to isolate the dirt from ever contacting the steel parts of the chain, and a simple wipe down doesn't get in the rollers it just gets the outside plates. Leaving oil on that long will shorten the life of the chain just as leaving oil in an engine for 40,000 miles will shorten the engine life. But hey, you do save on the cost of oil changes.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

froze said:


> I understand, but I don't like the way Chain L feels on the road bikes, it has a sluggish feel to it; on the touring bike I don't notice it much at all.


Sluggish? That's in your head. I'm running my 11-speed Campy SR on Chain-L. Nothing sluggish about it, I promise...



froze said:


> Leaving oil on that long will shorten the life of the chain just as leaving oil in an engine for 40,000 miles will shorten the engine life. But hey, you do save on the cost of oil changes.


6000 miles on my Campy R11 chains, re-lubed every 800-1000 miles. 
Not good enough for you?


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

froze said:


> I would never let any oil stay on for that long on a chain, kind of like using synthetic oil in your engine and leaving it there for 40,000 miles. No matter how good the oil is it's going to collect dirt, and no matter how good the oil is that oil is not going to isolate the dirt from ever contacting the steel parts of the chain, and a simple wipe down doesn't get in the rollers it just gets the outside plates. Leaving oil on that long will shorten the life of the chain just as leaving oil in an engine for 40,000 miles will shorten the engine life. But hey, you do save on the cost of oil changes.


You can't compare a bike chain to an engine. It's a closed system vs an open system.

How many miles do you get out of a chain? What's your expectations?
My chain at 5,000mi and 1/8% elongation is on pace to easily go 15k miles. And I don't clean out the old lube, just add new. That contradicts "not washing the chain will shorten its life".


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

this thread is packed with amusing comments.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

tlg said:


> You can't compare a bike chain to an engine. It's a closed system vs an open system.
> 
> How many miles do you get out of a chain? What's your expectations?
> My chain at 5,000mi and 1/8% elongation is on pace to easily go 15k miles. And I don't clean out the old lube, just add new. That contradicts "not washing the chain will shorten its life".


Truthfully, I think that cleaning a chain shortens its lifespan. I don't clean my chains. Ever. I lube them and wipe them down.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

PlatyPius said:


> Truthfully, I think that cleaning a chain shortens its lifespan. I don't clean my chains. Ever. I lube them and wipe them down.


Exactly, that's the way to do it. The guys who are periodically degreasing their chains completely are not only wasting their time, but they're doing some real damage.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

since 839 miles was deemed 'too long' for the lube to in place (that comment totally cracks me up btw), I decided to go ahead and put a fresh application of CL...

the drivetrain was soooo smooth. 

love this stuff.

lube and wipe. all else is futility...and OCD.


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## Z'mer (Oct 28, 2013)

First, to address "it feels sluggish", and the power of suggestion, and then our minds expectation. 
If you "know" up front one lube is "faster" and another is not as fast, you'll automatically tell yourself "wow, this one is slower, sluggish". 

So why - the friction facts guy says Pro Gold is all of 1.1 watts faster than most other lubes. Wow. So now a 1.1 watts difference feels "sluggish" on my road bikes. Yep, that guy told me so. I can feel it. 

Mostly because I'm expected to feel a 1 watt difference. There it is, on the nice color graphic chart. Why would anyone talk at length about this if it made no difference? :thumbsup:
Never mind raising three fingers at speed probably costs you 3-5 watts. Or swapping your typical jersey for a more aerodynamic one saves you 15 watts.


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## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

PlatyPius said:


> Truthfully, I think that cleaning a chain shortens its lifespan. I don't clean my chains. Ever. I lube them and wipe them down.


Completely disagree. Lubing a dirty chain forces dirt into the chain creating grinding paste. When I've taken the chain off to clean and lube my chains last much longer.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

mfdemicco said:


> Completely disagree. Lubing a dirty chain forces dirt into the chain creating grinding paste. When I've taken the chain off to clean and lube my chains last much longer.


It's all in the details. If, after cleaning, you are able to remove all water and cleaning solvent from in between every link, then you're right. But it turns out that's easier said than done. If not carried out to perfection, you have this mad combination of cleaning solvent and new chain lube coexisting in many links of the chain, and that's obviously bad.

The previously poster said "wipe down". That does remove most of the dirt from the chain.

I speak from experience. I once removed my chain from the bike (I have a lot of tools at home), soaked it in cleaning solvent over night, then thoroughly rinsed it with water, hang it up to dry overnight, then add new lube. For the first hour of riding, it felt great. But then some links start to lock, despite that wonderful cleaning procedure. I think I should have put it in the oven to totally get water out of the chain.

That was with the PC1091R chain, top of the line from SRAM. I just ordered a top of the line Campy chain from Bike Tires Direct since they had a one day sale, and it matches SRAM's chain in weight and price.


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

I use Chain-L as my free hub lube.. I've gone to squirt-lube for my chain. Chain-L is good stuff though.


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## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

Chain-L lasts long but so does the greasy stuff Shimano puts on their chains, so why use Chain-L? For me, I can't stand to have a dirty chain and use ProLink.


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## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

PlatyPius said:


> Truthfully, I think that cleaning a chain shortens its lifespan. I don't clean my chains. Ever. I lube them and wipe them down.


Same here, I can't be bothered to go through such rituals to potentially extend the life of a $20 consumable item. I'm already getting 4500 miles out of my 10sp chains.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

mfdemicco said:


> Completely disagree. Lubing a dirty chain forces dirt into the chain creating grinding paste. When I've taken the chain off to clean and lube my chains last much longer.


I completely agree with you disagreeing. The only way dirt will be forced into places where it shouldn't be is if the solvent is under pressure. Todays bushing type of chains are actually easier to clean and easier to get the lube in all the places. This is why lubes have a carrier to carry the lube into the rollers. If dirt is allowed to stay on the rollers it acts like sandpaper and grinds away at the chain and gears which in turn deposits fine metal shavings onto the chain and gears exacerbating the situation. 

If you want to try an experiment, for the non cleaning guy, buy a Park Chain Cleaning machine right before you change out your chain and clean the chain as directed, pour out the solvent and look at the bottom of the reservoir, there is a small black square that square is a magnet, on that magnet you will see foreign material clinging to the magnet, that material is bits of your chain and gears, the rest of the sand type grit was in the black soup you poured out and down the drain.

Of course one could buy a chain every 500 miles or so and never be bothered with lubing or cleaning, but cleaning solvent and lube is less expensive than a chain. On my new bike, which has a 10 speed chain, it now has 4800 miles on it and the chain shows no wear. But I clean my chain about every 250 miles before I lube, and I wipe the chain with a rag after every ride. I use to use a different lube from Finish Line called Teflon Dry and had to do that process every 100 miles (it use to be longer but they changed the formula now it's junk), but the new lube I used called ProLink Extreme lasts on the chain longer and the instructions say to wipe down the chain after every ride so I follow those directions. 

By the way on my older 5,6, and 7 speed chains these last about 15,000 miles, some of that has to do with the fact that these chains are wider, thicker and stronger than the new thin chains, part it has to do with keeping them clean and lubed.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

froze said:


> I completely agree with you disagreeing. The only way dirt will be forced into places where it shouldn't be is if the solvent is under pressure. Todays bushing type of chains are actually easier to clean and easier to get the lube in all the places. This is why lubes have a carrier to carry the lube into the rollers. If dirt is allowed to stay on the rollers it acts like sandpaper and grinds away at the chain and gears which in turn deposits fine metal shavings onto the chain and gears exacerbating the situation.
> 
> If you want to try an experiment, *for the non cleaning guy, buy a Park Chain Cleaning machine* right before you change out your chain and clean the chain as directed, pour out the solvent and look at the bottom of the reservoir, there is a small black square that square is a magnet, on that magnet you will see foreign material clinging to the magnet, that material is bits of your chain and gears, the rest of the sand type grit was in the black soup you poured out and down the drain.
> 
> ...





mfdemicco said:


> Completely disagree. Lubing a dirty chain forces dirt into the chain creating grinding paste. When I've taken the chain off to clean and lube my chains last much longer.


As you well know, froze, I own a bike shop. I've owned a Park chain cleaner before. I was also an auto mechanic for years. If you subject a car timing chain to a solvent like Park Chain-Brite, you'll also see flecks of metal and dirt.

The Campy chain on one of my bikes has almost 10,000 miles on it (none recently, unfortunately), and it doesn't need to be replaced yet. It has never been cleaned with solvent. It gets wiped down, lubed with Chain-L, wiped again, and then ridden.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

You can use Q tips to clean the area between the rollers.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

Let's have a compromise: run the dirty chain through the Park Tool chain cleaner filled with fresh lube, with magnet in place, after wipe down.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

myhui said:


> You can use Q tips to clean the area between the rollers.


Is this for real or are you being sarcastic? I can't imagine anyone riding a bicycle for pleasure, fitness or sport doing this unless they're, well, slightly deranged.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

wim said:


> Is this for real or are you being sarcastic? I can't imagine anyone riding a bicycle for pleasure, fitness or sport doing this unless they're, well, slightly deranged.


I haven't done it myself, but now that I've suggested it publicly, then sure I'll do it myself.

What's the big deal?

A better alternative is ultrasonic cleaners filled with fresh lubricant.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

Speaking of Campy chains, exactly how these things wear is a bit of a mystery to me, but it seems their wear pattern is different from others. Case in point, when I replaced my R11 chain the other day (it had 6000 miles on it, and was borderline or slightly beyond according to the measurement suggested in Campy's manual), I took a very close look at the pin that I had pushed out to break the chain. Contrary to what I expected, that pin was almost pristine: Yes, when I ran my fingernail along, I could feel a bit of wear at the lines where the plates move, but it was extremely little. My feeling is that, with Campy chains, wear is mostly roller wear, and only very little wear of the pins themselves. Which coincides with the observation that, if you try to measure chain wear of a Campy chain using the standard method of measuring the distance between pins, you'll not find much, if any wear, even for a chain that needs replacing.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

wim said:


> The big deal is that time spent cleaning your chain with freaking Q-tips could be spent to doing five 2-minute interval work sessions. Unlike cleaning your chain with Q-tips, those intervals would actually make you a faster rider.


I need my recovery period between those intervals. I do my chain cleaning during my recovery.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

myhui said:


> What's the big deal


The big deal is that time spent cleaning your chain with freaking Q-tips could be spent doing five 2-minute interval work sessions. Unlike cleaning your chain obsessively, those intervals would actually make you a faster rider.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

wim said:


> Is this for real or are you being sarcastic?


Sadly, this is probably for real. No further comment.



myhui said:


> I need my recovery period between those intervals. I do my chain cleaning during my recovery.


Some of us can think of other things to do during "recovery" than cleaning our chain with Q-Tips. Like, have a life.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

PlatyPius said:


> As you well know, froze, I own a bike shop. I've owned a Park chain cleaner before. I was also an auto mechanic for years. If you subject a car timing chain to a solvent like Park Chain-Brite, you'll also see flecks of metal and dirt.
> 
> The Campy chain on one of my bikes has almost 10,000 miles on it (none recently, unfortunately), and it doesn't need to be replaced yet. It has never been cleaned with solvent. It gets wiped down, lubed with Chain-L, wiped again, and then ridden.


I understand your reasoning but how do you dismiss the fact that those steel particles are not damaging your chain? Yes, I understand the timing chain issue but a timing chain is a whole lot more heavy duty then a flimsy bicycle chain and it doesn't move from one gear to another because it is locked solidly in place, in addition it is lubed by engine oil and any metal flaking gets trapped by the oil filter, and if a person does not change their oil they take a risk of ruining their timing chain...among other items in the engine. A well maintained timing chain can last 500,000 miles and more, however not the belt type those won't last anywhere near that many miles. Sorry but that was a poor example of how one relates to another and you use to be an auto mechanic? I don't mean to be mean but that just seemed like a nutty response.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

froze said:


> I understand your reasoning but how do you dismiss the fact that those steel particles are not damaging your chain?


There are many ways to remove those steel particles.


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## scottma (May 18, 2012)

wim said:


> Is this for real or are you being sarcastic? I can't imagine anyone riding a bicycle for pleasure, fitness or sport doing this unless they're, well, slightly deranged.


I use The ShelBroCo Bicycle Chain Cleaning System


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

myhui said:


> There are many ways to remove those steel particles.


We're not talking about all the different methods to remove steel particles, we're talking about someone who does not clean their chain at all, and by not doing so does not remove any steel particles OR the grit found in nature.


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## Tachycardic (Mar 31, 2013)

Is it me, or is there too much analness going on concerning chains? I mean, the fact that we're arguing about the best way to care for chains...doesn't that mean that there isn't one best way to care for chains? It's a chain. If you can't afford them, then you shouldn't be in the sport anyways.


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

froze said:


> We're not talking about all the different methods to remove steel particles, we're talking about someone who does not clean their chain at all, and by not doing so does not remove any steel particles OR the grit found in nature.


I'm with you "froze". I live at the coast and pick up sand particles on my chain. You can see the particles on the inside of the plates. I can only imagine some has to be getting ground up and getting inside the rollers. No way just wiping it down prior to applying new lube is getting the particles out. I always clean my chain prior to adding new lube. Not only a concern for the chain, I'm also concerned about chainrings and cassette.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

froze said:


> we're talking about someone who does not clean their chain at all, and by not doing so does not remove any steel particles OR the grit found in nature.


Show me the quote that said that.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

scottma said:


> I use The ShelBroCo Bicycle Chain Cleaning System


Maybe Honda does that too when they build their "Suzuka Special" F1 race engine.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

Notice the single punch hole in the SRAM PC1091R chain versus the double hole in the Campagnolo Record Ultra Narrow chain. I think the double hole design is stronger. Both have very similar prices when a sale is on, and both have weights around 251 grams.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

myhui said:


> Show me the quote that said that.


Read post 113


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

froze said:


> Read post 113


The last paragraph of that post did not say to never clean the chain.

You are engaging in a straw man argument.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

myhui said:


> The last paragraph of that post did not say to never clean the chain.
> 
> You are engaging in a straw man argument.


Are you are moron? read it again, we were talking about HIM, HE SAID HE NEVER CLEANED HIS CHAIN...DO YOU UNDERSTAND? Do you have straw for a brain...or you just like to be a jerk for the fun of it? This is multiple choice question. Get out of other peoples discussions if you're too stupid to follow along.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

froze said:


> Are you are moron? read it again, we were talking about HIM, HE SAID HE NEVER CLEANED HIS CHAIN...DO YOU UNDERSTAND? Do you have straw for a brain...or you just like to be a jerk for the fun of it? This is multiple choice question. Get out of other peoples discussions if you're too stupid to follow along.


Here is the statement from that post:



> It has never been cleaned with solvent. It gets wiped down, lubed with Chain-L, wiped again, and then ridden.


"I am not a lawyer, but I have worked with one in the past."

or

"I am not a doctor, but I do play one on TV."


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

I'd say it wasn't cleaned.
A wipe down doesn't equate to cleaning in my book.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

myhui said:


> Here is the statement from that post:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Right, which again if you followed along in the conversation you would have read we were talking about using solvent, not running a rag which does nothing much by the way it just gets the outside plates clean that doesn't really matter that much other than for looks. So you're still having trouble comprehending, I'm glad you're not a doctor, I'm sure you would have a lot of dead patients from failure to comprehend what they're telling you!.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

froze said:


> Right, which again if you followed along in the conversation you would have read we were talking about using solvent, not running a rag which does nothing much


So do you advocate using solvent?


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

myhui said:


> So do you advocate using solvent?


I use Park Citrus ChainBrite chain cleaner in my Park chain cleaning machine, so what is that cleaner made of? It's a Citrus degreaser which acts as a solvent, which is what Park calls it, on grease and dirt. Most bike shops use the Park product but I know of a bike shop in town that uses a wet rag soaked in Dawn for Dishes, what does it do, acts like a solvent to remove the grease and dirt. Some people use Simple Green, same sort of action. With Dawn or Simple Green you have to rinse the chain in water, now you have to hose the chain down with WD40 which will displace the water, let the WD40 dry and then lube with whatever lube you like. I don't like the extra 2 steps of rinsing with water then using WD40 and waiting so I just use the Park stuff.

So I'm not advocating a solvent, I'm advocating cleaning your chain.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

froze said:


> So I'm not advocating a solvent, I'm advocating cleaning your chain.


Everyone who has posted on this thread so far have said that they do clean their chain.

We only disagree on the method.

I have tried your method. I have that Park Tool chain cleaner, complete with the citrus based cleaner it came with.

The experience I relayed earlier was with me doing the cleaning procedure the way you described.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

mfdemicco said:


> Completely disagree. Lubing a dirty chain forces dirt into the chain creating grinding paste. When I've taken the chain off to clean and lube my chains last much longer.


Really... much longer? How much "longer"? Have you actually studied this? Lets see your data. Mileage, cleaning, and lubing intervals.
I'm sure you've logged this on several chains, cleaned vs non-cleaned.


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## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

tlg said:


> Really... much longer? How much "longer"? Have you actually studied this? Lets see your data. Mileage, cleaning, and lubing intervals.
> I'm sure you've logged this on several chains, cleaned vs non-cleaned.


Actually, I do keep data on when I've changed my chains. I have been lazy of late and have not been cleaning the chain between lubing. 

Logically, why do you believe that keeping dirt and grit in your chain makes it last longer?


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

mfdemicco said:


> Actually, I do keep data on when I've changed my chains. I have been lazy of late and have not been cleaning the chain between lubing.


Keeping data on when you change chains proves absolutely nothing to your statement that taking the "chain off to clean and lube makes the chain last much longer."
BTW... how often are you changing your chains?



> Logically, why do you believe that keeping dirt and grit in your chain makes it last longer?


I never said that. 

Logically, why do you think taking the chain off to clean and lube makes it last *MUCH *longer. How much is MUCH longer does it last? What are you gaining from all the time spent cleaning the chain?


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## NWS Alpine (Mar 16, 2012)

I have used Chain-L for a while. It lasts a long time and runs so smooth. I only wipe down after the initial few rides to get anything that has come out of the pins. When I do re-apply I strip it down in solvent and then apply more Chain-L by heating the chain and lube so it penetrates easily. Let it cool and wipe off the excess. When I tune up a friend's bike the first thing they notice is how silent and smooth the chain is.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

I couldn't resist the urge to bump this thread given what's happening over here:









Silca wax lube...


I never said I get 10,000mi from a chain. Ever. Are you not paying attention or intentionally making stuff up? lol You want constructive opinions... yet make up stuff. :rolleyes: As I said... I searched all over the interwebs. Including those sites. So why don't you share what they're...




www.roadbikereview.com













Best chain lubes...


I promised myself I wouldn't post in this thread, but I'm stuck indoors with a broken neck and bored crapless, so here's my 2 cents... ride in dry conditions, use Chain-L. get 8-10K miles from chains and easily 20-30K from cassettes. lube ~750 miles link-by-link (takes




www.roadbikereview.com


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Lombard said:


> I couldn't resist the urge to bump this thread given what's happening over here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I average 8,000 to 10,000 miles on my chains too, and 2 to 3 times that on my cassettes, but I don't use Chain L, I tried it but wasn't impressed, but I don't like wet lubes either; I have used several different brands of lubes and get that sort miles from all of them, but the best I've used for longevity of miles between relubing was around 500 miles from Dumonde Tech Lite, and around 250 miles from Rock n Roll Ultimate Dry, everything else I've tried lasts less miles. But as far as how long my chains last may be due from keeping the chains clean, wiping them down after each ride, and staying on top of keeping them lubed.


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