# Thoughts on restoring and carbon dating a 79-82 Colnago Super



## Mr Wolfe (Apr 5, 2003)

Hi, I need help in determining the exact carbon date of a vintage-80’s Colnago Super frame (that is assuming that the group will buy into the idea of early 80’s being a vintage era). Likewise and most importantly, I am looking for beta in how far I should take the process of restoring a classic steed back into the realm of show piece quality (at the moment I am fully down with the sickness and prepared to invest the time/$$$ to do so. I am not looking to resale the bike/frame in the immediate future, but do plan on riding it occasionally)… 

So here is the deal. A co-worker passed along a Colnago Super frame that they had acquired years ago to use as a project bike. After determining that it was simply taking up space, the torch was passed on to me. I was more that willing to accept given that I have been drooling over similar era frames on e-Bay for sometime now and looking for an excuse to start such an undertaking. Anyways, I do not know the exact year and I would like for the build out to be as close as possible (Campy where possible; e.g. I do not want to build out with a Delta brakes if they did not exist at that time). Here is what I have been able to ascertain about the frame so far:

1 - I am the third owner of the frame
2 - It was originally purchased mail-order somewhere between ‘79-‘82
3 - 59 cm frame (C-C); blue with yellow block lettering (no white panels); no chrome lugs; no serials in the frame (only the right rear drop-out – see below)
4 - A Colnago Super based on the graphics/stickers that are have not complete destroyed and are still intact with the frame on the chain stays; the seat-tube has a sticker located underneath the what once was a Columbus tubing sticker that mentions Mexico, ORO 1972??? (from memory as frame is not in front of me at the moment)
5 - Condition of the frame: True and straight overall; no dents; lots of rust, scratches and rub points; flaking paint; bare metal; should clean-up ok with a general bead/fine-grit sand blasting
6 - Braze-ons: down tube shifters; two cable guide eyelets on the TT; two cable routings (brazed to the top of the BB); 1 chain-stay cable stop; 1 set of H20 bosses on the DT
7	- Pantographs: one club in the head tube lug, no seat-stay pantographs; no Colnago pantographs; club cut-out in the BB; two painted oval indentions (color may not be original) in the BB lug (located on the seat-tube and underneath between the chain-stays)
8	- Pin construction tubing as seen from looking into the BB
9	- Columbus tubing – can not make out more due to damaged stickers (SL, SLX any thoughts???)
10	- Forks – curved; chrome crown lug with pantographed clubs; legs likely to have been chrome originally, but have been repainted yellow
11	- Rear Drop-outs: Campy with a three digit number: 356, 366, 566, 586??? (I can only make out the last digit for sure). I’ve run across a thread that mentions a rumor about determining the year and month of fabrication based on the digits used (any validity to this? If so, anyone know what the order is???)


The beta I'm looking for: 

1	- Any Information regarding the exact year of production; I know that there where a plethora of variances offered in this era and in different markets
2	- Components Spec’d at that time (Campy SR for instance)
3	- Validity to the campy drop-out serial rumor
4	- General value of the frame (current state and refinished state)
4.1	- In restoring such an item, should I return it to the original color? If I decide to use another paint scheme from that era, how does that impact the overall value?
4.2	- Chroming the lugs. Even though not originally spec’d any value in doing so, other than looks (I would think not)? Chroming is $$$, but it’s so HOT when done right.
4.3	- Given that I will have to strip the frame down the the bare metal due to all the rust, what is the general value once completed (will determine if I shell out the jack for a frame-builder/restoration service vs less-professional methods as I obviously do not want to spend 3 bills plus for a frame only worth 1)
5	- Recommended restoration services, vintage nag information. I am aware of a few, am always looking to increase my knowledge base (Sheldon Brown, Harris Cyclery; CampyOnly, Classic Rendezvous, http://www.colnagonews.com/prova2/history.html, http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/, and several other odds and ends. There does not appear to be a definitive resource for such items out there (yet another side project I have been tossing around lately)
6	- How would you go about approaching such a project?

Any and all comments are welcome. I can provide pix if need be. I plan on keeping a log for sharing of the whole process once it’s completed.

Keep on spinning

Wolfe


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## lonefrontranger (Feb 5, 2004)

*restoration*

I can't help you with the dating process or narrowing down - might see if boneman has some ideas. It sounds as if it may be an old Colnago Mexico frameset, very early 80's perhaps. But I don't have enough recall of that era as I was only in junior high at the time.

However, I CAN recommend a good restoration gig: http://www.spectrumpowderworks.com/

Go to their gallery of powdercoated bikes, click on Page 16, and check out the gorgeous vintage Colnago steel red-and-white panel job about halfway down the page. And it's all done in powdercoat, so it's absolutely indestructible. I believe they can even restore the chrome as well, and they'll do all the logos and then powder clearcoat over them. Bingo, end of worries.

A late 70's - early 80's bike is indeed considered vintage, at least in my book. You can get 'vintage' / 'classic' licence plates for a car that is 20 years or more old, why not bikes? From my shaky knowledge of that era, I believe Nuovo Record would be your kit. The Delta brakeset design did not appear until around 1986 or 1987 IIRC. Find yourself some sweet old Record high-flange hubs and mount 'em to good high-thread cotton tubs for me as well


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## Maybeck (Sep 30, 2004)

Have no idea how you can exactly pin point the date, might not be possible. But with the top tube guides and one water bottle braze-on I'd say the late 70's to very early 80's would be an accurate ballpark. If the frame is sound and you love it, go ahead and restore it right. You will spend more than it's worth but if you enjoy doing the work and finding parts etc. it will be worth it. The right gruppo would be Super Record, and that stuff is pretty affordable if you are not buying NOS. Delta's would be wrong and are pure puke in my eyes, but if you like 'em run 'em. I don't believe in absolute "correct" restorations for bikes like this. I don't think it would be uncommen for somebody who owned the bike at the time to get excited about the Delta's and upgrade their 4 or 5 year old bike. So no reason you should not either. Please do not powdercoat! Yes, it's cheap and strong but it looks like crap when compared to an excellent paint job. And it is not very reversable. There's lots of great painters out there that can match the original blue color and get you the right decals, etc. Brian Baylis, Joe Bell, Cycleart, Bob Freeman at Davidson, etc. etc. I would discuss the chrome issue with your painter. Mucho bucks, but again, if it's what sends you, this is why you are doing it right. Good luck.


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## Keiko5 (Sep 30, 2004)

I agree to 78-81 based on the cable guides on the top of the BB shell and single bottle braze-ons. I have a 78-79 Colnago Mexico, and it sounds alot like yours, painted lugs, no seatstay-cap pantos, same braze-on selection. The paint on my Mexico is original and the only chrome is on the fork crown (panto with clover and COLNAGO block letters). All stays and dropouts are painted. There is a mylar chrome protector on the right stay with "Colnago Mexico" on the mylar. A catalog of that era says the Mexicos were made with "Special Columbus 4/10 Record" tubes, and the Supers were Columbus SL. My experience from working and owning a bike shop from 79-85 is, generally speaking, the more chrome on an italian frame, the later (newer) its vintage.

I hope this helps.

Kevin


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## lonefrontranger (Feb 5, 2004)

*you obviously*



Maybeck said:


> Please do not powdercoat! Yes, it's cheap and strong but it looks like crap when compared to an excellent paint job.


... have never seen the work that Spectrum does, or you would not say this. Please take the time to check the link before you post such an opinion.


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## Mr Wolfe (Apr 5, 2003)

*Great feedback so far. Keep posting...*

Obviously there are many different ways to approach this restoration project and many many thanks to all for the input so far. Great reads. Please keep them coming as it has been fun to dream a bit. I plan on checking out several of the refinishing offerings out there. Lonefront, thanks for the link on the powdercoating I have heard of such processes, but have never had the opportunity for such until now. Definately some talent there and worth further investigation. 

As for the frame itself, it is most definately a Super from 79-82 (stickers and original owner have clarified after speaking with him today). I was hoping to determine the exact year if possible as the he does not recall. 

With regards to my comments on the Deltas, this was strictly for illustrative purposes as I was aware they arrived on the scene much later than the frame (after re-reading my previous post I see that it was not that clear). For the moment I have not planed on using them. Once again Lonefront, I believe you are correct as to when these came to market, 86-87 in the C-Record offering if memory serves. But alas, Campy was only a dream for me back then and I had to settle with replicas... 

No thoughts/confirmations on the Campy drop-out serials???

Thanks again...

Wolfe


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## boneman (Nov 26, 2001)

*Some good answers already*

I do not believe that it's an 1982 as by then, he was already putting the cable guides on the bottom of the BB so now it's down to 1979-1981.

Mail ordered originally. Any idea from whom? There wasn't a large mail order market at that time so you might be able to further narrow down the year.

FWIW, the Mexico refers to Merckx's hour record in Mexico (don't be confused by that Windsor badged bike)

I'm not sure about the claims regarding special lightweight tubing but I would say it's SL.

I've never seen anyone explain the drop out numbers over the years and there are Colnago's without those numbers.

The Mexico was made from the mid-70's through the early 1980's. There were a lot of variations regarding the paint and chrome but I agree with the post that the less chrome, the earlier the vintage.

Lonefrontranger's spot on with the CRecord and you've already checked that out. Super Record for that era if new, even Nuovo Record if you bought the frame only and built it up from your existing ride.

The value's hard to assess. Lot's of them out there in various state of wear and finish.

I would go with the original color, if you can determine the color. Personally, I like the red used on Saronni's 1982 World's winning Mexico with the white panels. A person I knew who came into an inheritance had one (along with a Ferrari 330GTC and 330GTS). A complete travesty for such a beautiful ride (bike and cars).

I wouldn't bother chroming the lugs. The first Colnago's I saw were in the early 70's and they had absolutely no chrome and no braze-ons.

Cyclearts does great work, I've had one frame painted by them and will use either them or Moonglow to repaint my 1975 Gios-Torino which BTW was before those coins were put into the forks.

First thing to do is to have someone try to assess the structural integrity of the frame, ie tubing and lugs. If that's okay, then determine who you want to use to strip and refinish the frame and get a quote. Keep in mind, if it's resale value you're looking for, don't bother starting the project (see vintage car restorations for a reference and we're not talking Testarossa as there were too many of these made).

The components can be found either locally or via EBay and quite easily.

If you really like the frame, and there's no reason not to do the restoration. If you're looking at resale value, just get the components and ride the bike.

Good luck whichever direction you choose to go.

1973 Super

19?? Mexico

19?? Mexico with retinato finish, probably towards the end of the Mexico production

Both off EBay. Apologies to sellers and buyers.


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## colker1 (Jan 2, 2003)

lonefrontranger said:


> I can't help you with the dating process or narrowing down - might see if boneman has some ideas. It sounds as if it may be an old Colnago Mexico frameset, very early 80's perhaps. But I don't have enough recall of that era as I was only in junior high at the time.
> 
> However, I CAN recommend a good restoration gig: http://www.spectrumpowderworks.com/
> 
> ...




the red colnago w/ white pannels on pg 16. tsk tsk tsk.. i'm out of words to express my feelings. that's THE race bike.


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## wasfast (Feb 3, 2004)

colker1 said:


> the red colnago w/ white panels. tsk tsk tsk.. i'm out of words to express my feelings. that's THE race bike.


I agree. I raced in this era and always loved an Orange Colnago super that one guy had. All super record with pantographed chaingrings, stem and seatpost. Now that's something cool!


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## Maybeck (Sep 30, 2004)

*I'm not criticizing Spectrum's work.*

And maybe I was being lazy in making my point. Which is powdercoat is not a good finish for a nicely made lugged frame. Paint should be thin and crisp to allow the lugs to look nice and crisp. Plus a paint finish can be color sanded to a very even sheen and high gloss if you want a show quality, "better than new" finish. In my opinion powdercoat can not achieve this, and it's not something you can tell from looking at digital photos on the web. You need to hold in it your hands. Powdercoat is a great finish for race bikes, beaters, tourers, etc., etc. But is not something you want to do to a quality vintage frame that's going to be restored. But this is based on having a painter that knows what they are doing as well.


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## lonefrontranger (Feb 5, 2004)

*and*

I was probably a little lazy in my response. Let me further elaborate. Spectrum is based in Colorado Springs. They do all the paintwork for Anvil custom. The founder of Spectrum has worked for years to perfect a PC process that exactly mimics 'wet' paint designs.

I personally know and have seen live and in full colour several restoration projects done by Spectrum, both at Interbike and locally. You cannot tell the difference between Spectrum powder and a wet lacquer job, even on a 'classic' lugged frameset. It is just as sharp, as shiny and as droolsomely spectacular. These guys can do any manner of fades, candies, pearls, flames, airbrushwork, lugs... AND he has a patented process for doing decal replica work with high temp decals so that he can powder clearcoat over them. 

In addition to being far more durable, powdercoat is also far more environmentally sound.


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## Greg of C Springs (Feb 8, 2005)

*same issues, earlier bike*

I still ride my first great bike, a pre-1975 Colnago. Almost two years ago I got a new Ti 6/4 bike that I love to ride so much that the Colnago is getting lonely. I'm in a quandry about what, if any changes I should make to her (my Colnago). I ride a lot and trained pretty hard last year for some races in Masters 55+ category. I did OK--not great--but I'd like to do a few more this year (2005). With sew-ups the Colnago is only a pound or two heavier than the Ti bike, but that is mostly due to the wheels. The Colnago frame is at least three pounds up on the Ti frame.

I know that I want to do a paint job at least and I will probably add braze-ons for two water bottles. I am not too keen on the three chrome clips that hold the rear brake cable onto the top tube, but I have mixed feelings about messing with a classic frame by adding cable guides. What I'd really like to do is spread the rear chain stays so I can interchange wheels and use the Colnago as an alternate training bike. I think it would actually be a better bike for criteriums anyway, but I am really nervous about making such drastic modifications to the frame.

So I'm asking for thoughts and advice. I'm a rider not a collector, but this bike got me through a lot of tough rides over the years. I just can't bear to see her sitting in the corner.

Greg


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