# Base miles for winter...really??



## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

Is it that cut and dry? I am going to approach this winter's training a bit differently. In the past, I would just continue to ride (lots of night mtb rides) at a sort of watered down pace during the winter months. I would still do intervals (both hill and flat) and push myself....just at a smaller degree than I would during the race season...

My thoughts for THIS winter are:

IF I just focus on BASE MILES alone all winter, will I benefit MORE from it next race season compared to what I normally do? If so, what month do I kick it into gear and really start the harder workouts??

Note: I live in S. California..

Thanks!


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## Ghost234 (Jun 1, 2010)

Periodization works best if you want to get the most benefit from your workouts. Doing base miles ALL winter will not benefit you very much. However, if you begin with base miles and transition your way into the more intense activities later into the winter you will likely see the biggest gains. 

There are many good books on it. My personal favorite is the Training Bible.


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## MarshallH1987 (Jun 17, 2009)

doing more base miles will hurt you. Once you get a good base, which you have right now, you only need a couple long rides a MONTH to keep the benefits. Adding more will not give more benefits, only high intensities will.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

You might want to read Chappell's base training book. Base isn't just a lot of L2 and nothing else.

As for when to switch from base to the build stage of your regular season, that depends on when your first A race is. Use Friels training bible for planning your season.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

I'd say you need to define your own priorities. 

If you like riding your bike, keep doing all the base miles that are enjoyable to you. If you like Racing your bike more than you like riding your bike...then maybe you want to try a different training strategy and see if it gets you better Race Results. Lots of 'experts' say that just riding your bike is 'wasted time'. "If you are not training with a specific goal every ride...." and like that..

That kind of thinking might be right for you if winning races is your only goal. On the other hand, if you like riding and training for part time racing...some type of a compromise comes into play..

Me, I hate having to miss a fun group ride or long adventure because "I have a race coming up...I should taper" I enjoy my 'base miles" (also in So Cal) because I can ride anytime anywhere I want, without thinking about what race I have coming up... But then I don't win many races having all that fun on the bike. I do ok and I still race cause I like that, too....

Priorities..


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## ManxShred (Mar 6, 2009)

I'm going down the reverse periodization route. Basically go hard for shorter periods and build up your pace (intervals, shorter hard rides). Then as the new year approaches start lengthening the rides up to the length of effort you need for your events.

Works better for me over winter (turbo and shorter hard rides when it is cold) plus works on my weakness which is speed and climbing.


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## the_gormandizer (May 12, 2006)

In a cycling book there's a passage that quotes an old timer coach saying that you need 1,000 or so base miles to build up the blood capillaries in your legs. He cautions that if you forget yourself during this base building time, say by "chasing a rabbit", you will blow these capillaries and waste all the base building. In these days of time-crunched training programs, I've often wondered how much of an old wives' tale that is.

(I can't remember which book, and I apologize if I haven't paraphrased it correctly. I can look it up at home.)


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

the_gormandizer said:


> He cautions that if you forget yourself during this base building time, say by "chasing a rabbit", you will blow these capillaries and waste all the base building. In these days of time-crunched training programs, I've often wondered how much of an old wives' tale that is.


Complete hogwash. I wouldn't trust anything that book has to say since the author puts so little effort into fact checking. He's in the same class as a broken watch. It might show the correct time, but that would be purely accidental and not very likely.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

Hmm...lots of conflicting thoughts here I do appreciate your responses. Sounds like I need to finally purchase Friels book... I have always had a fairly effective race season workout regimen...just always felt like I could step up my off season a bit...or at least get my off season more "dialed in"..


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

rydbyk said:


> Hmm...lots of conflicting thoughts here


While most athletes are quick to adopt what the newest studies say, I seemed to have benefited from aerobase training last year. I'm not saying that YOU will or won't see any benefits, but I'll be doing them for my training for 2011.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

ManxShred said:


> I'm going down the reverse periodization route. Basically go hard for shorter periods and build up your pace (intervals, shorter hard rides).


This is basically what I'm doing this winter.

In the past when moving to my trainer, I've done longer rides with an emphasis on high tempo/low threshold work. This year I'm going to try shorter rides with more high intensity/lower length intervals....though I'm going to ride more days per week to make up for the lower caloric burn that I will have from shorter rides.

It will be interesting to contrast the two training methods when the season comes around in February.

The reality is most races last between 1.5 and 2 hours in length...so doing anything longer than that during the winter may be a waste of time as long as those hours are "Quality" hours on the bike.

Once the weather clears back up and the days get longer then longer rides come into play for stage races...assuming you do stage races.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

Wookiebiker said:


> This is basically what I'm doing this winter.
> 
> In the past when moving to my trainer, I've done longer rides with an emphasis on high tempo/low threshold work. This year I'm going to try shorter rides with more high intensity/lower length intervals....though I'm going to ride more days per week to make up for the lower caloric burn that I will have from shorter rides.
> 
> ...



What will be your definition of "short rides", 'high intensity", "lower length intervals"??
Thanks Wookie


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

rydbyk said:


> What will be your definition of "short rides", 'high intensity", "lower length intervals"??
> 
> Thanks Wookie


*Short rides* will be a minimum of 1 hour and a maximum of 1.5 hours. Last year they varied from 1 to 2.5 hours.

*Lower length intervals* will be 20 second, 30 second and 1 minute intervals with small amounts of rest during the sets.

*High intensity* means getting my HR up into the upper 160/lower 170 BPM range (my max is around 178 bpm).

Currently my schedule looks like this..._*I'll re-evaluate how things are going after the first month.*_

Monday: 1 hour tempo
Tuesday: 1.5 hour intervals
Wednesday 1.25 - 1.5 hour tempo
Thursday: 1.5 hour intervals
Friday: 1 hour endurance/recovery
Saturday: 3 hours group ride outside
Sunday: 1.5 hours tempo on the trainer or 2 - 2.5 hours outside with hills.

My trainer interval sessions look like this:

20 minute warm up, increasing the output as I warm up. The first 10 minutes are high endurance pace, the second 10 minutes are at tempo pace (85% - 90% of FTP).

Then 2 minutes out of the saddle, 60-65 RPM in my biggest gear. I do this every 10 minutes to keep my butt from suffering painful issues while on the trainer.

Then the interval starts....1 minute at tempo, 30 second at 150% of FTP, 30 seconds at tempo, 30 seconds at 150% FTP, 1.5 minutes at tempo, 30 seconds at 150% FTP, 30 seconds at tempo, 30 seconds at 150% FTP, 2.5 minutes at tempo.

That is a 10 minute set. I do four of those...then drop down to 20 second interval lengths but add in an extra interval set with the shorter duration for two sets and finish with 10 minutes at tempo.

My non interval days are done at a pace that's closer to SST training than anything...but at shorter durations than I've done in the past.


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## MaddSkillz (Mar 13, 2007)

Dang Wookie! That's some structure right there!


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## rudedog55 (Aug 10, 2009)

MaddSkillz said:


> Dang Wookie! That's some structure right there!


yeah, you should check his blog, it is one of the most impressive workout regimens i have ever seen. EVER. And since i am one of those anal retentive Triathletes, i see a lot of training logs of friends. 

He puts MAD time in on the bike, it is really impressive.


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## onefascruzan (Dec 28, 2006)

Don't forget: Your workouts are only as effective as your recovery allows them to be. Sleep, diet and stress levels probably have more to do with your fitness than which training method you employ! Keep it fun, emphasize strength (weight room) and power (plyometrics) in the winter months and don't forget to train your brain, too!!


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## austincrx (Oct 22, 2008)

Just a note here: When I started cycling, I had no clue about 'winter base.' I only knew about intervals, so i did intervals 6 days a week, and took a rest day. I could go pretty hard for a little while, but now I can tell you from experience that the base miles pay dividends!

I used a structured *yearly* plan for training and it helped me out ALOT! I did base in the winter, focusing on long rides when I got a chance (I am a college student, so that was often), then slowly ramped-up my training as the season progressed. 

I would always run into trouble with being very tired at the end of a road race and dropping in my first season. After I had a good season plan and did the base miles, I've moved from 5's to 3's, and need another good finish to be a 2. I really feel like it was because I worked my aerobic engine and was able to stand the 80-100 mile base rides over the winter. I've done many road races that were alot longer than the ones i did my first year, and I had no problem sticking with them after I did a winter base. I think the interval stuff will make you good a crits, but if you don't do the base miles (atleast on the weekends, even throughout the race season) then it will take you a long time to get that ability to just ride for 4 hours.

And one more thing, if your races are all 2 hours long, you should be able to ride for 2.5 to 3 hours. I don't mean at the same pace, but you should atleast be able to ride 'easy' for 3 hours nonstop. A good rule of thumb is to take your longest race and add 25% to the distance and you should make your longest base rides atleast that distance.

Another good idea, and I know it's corny, but just look at what the pro's do. I don't mean DO what the pros do, but you can figure out why they do certain things and apply those concepts to your own training/riding to improve.


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