# White Industries H2/H3, build thoughts?



## DM.Aelis (Jun 19, 2007)

I tried to get some info via search, but wasn't super successful...

Me: Racer, 5'9, 150 lbs, running Campy.

I'm in the market for a custom racing wheelset. I get the impression that the White Industries H2/H3 combo are solid, durable, easily serviced, and have a gorgeous polished silver look that really complements silver spokes/aluminum rims especially. I'm not going to lie, the sexiness of these hubs is a big part of their appeal (and at their price point no less!). I'm considering them as part of a custom build with some carbon tubies as well, but I haven't seen many wheels built this way.

If I want to save some money, I sense that saving it on hubs (if you consider H2/H3 a "budget" option) isn't much of a compromise...minor weight gain, lots of $$$ saved, and a solid good looking product to boot. Splurging on Reynolds or Enve rims seems to be the place to spend money, personally. Just my impression, I guess.

So in the end, maybe the reason I don't see many WI hubs on carbon/high end builds is because the price-conscious/budget-consumer isn't purchasing those high-end wheels in the first place. Who knows.

Just looking for some general thoughts to speak to the following questions:

1) What does maintenance look like on WI hubs, and if I'm doing my own mechanic work, is it any more or less difficult than its competitors? I am happy to sacrifice low weight in favor of bombproof reliability/durability...is there a meaningful difference here for WI hubs?

2) I'm thinking about the following setup: Reynolds Forty Six rims, White Industries H2/H3, with silver CX-Rays. 24f/28r drilling. Aesthetically a good choice? Performance wise anything to think about? What would the weight end up being on a set like this? What would I gain from a different hubset choice? Should I consider Enve 2.45 rims instead, or are they both superb and relatively indistinguishable racing rims?

Thanks for your help!


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## macming (Dec 2, 2004)

DM.Aelis said:


> 2) I'm thinking about the following setup: Reynolds Forty Six rims, White Industries H2/H3, with silver CX-Rays. 24f/28r drilling. Aesthetically a good choice? Performance wise anything to think about? What would the weight end up being on a set like this? What would I gain from a different hubset choice? Should I consider Enve 2.45 rims instead, or are they both superb and relatively indistinguishable racing rims?
> 
> Thanks for your help!


I have pretty much the same setup. Industry 9 hubs, Reynolds 46 tubs, and black CX ray spokes. So far this setup have been pretty aero, solid and doesn't flex much!

If you are getting black rims, I'd consider black spokes too 

Sounds like you'll get a pretty good set either way.


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## DM.Aelis (Jun 19, 2007)

macming said:


> I have pretty much the same setup. Industry 9 hubs, Reynolds 46 tubs, and black CX ray spokes. So far this setup have been pretty aero, solid and doesn't flex much!
> 
> If you are getting black rims, I'd consider black spokes too
> 
> Sounds like you'll get a pretty good set either way.


Hmmm. Black spokes on silver hubs. Never tried it before, if you wouldn't mind posting a pic I'd love to see the look of it. Thanks!


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## valleycyclist (Nov 1, 2009)

White Industries hubs look very nice and are very durable. Servicing is easy, and you can look up hub service instructions on their website. I would definitely not call them heavy hubs, but all of the Campy rear hubs I weighed came in a little heavier than the Shimano rear hubs. Also, for the Campy rear hub, the spoke tension balance will be less than 50%, so you want to make sure the drive side spokes are tensioned properly in order that the non-drive side spokes have reasonable tension.

Alchemy hubs (at least for the rear Campy hub) is something you may want to consider which will give you a better spoke tension balance.


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## macming (Dec 2, 2004)

DM.Aelis said:


> Hmmm. Black spokes on silver hubs. Never tried it before, if you wouldn't mind posting a pic I'd love to see the look of it. Thanks!


Sorry, I meant my rims and spokes are black. My hubs are blue


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

Here are pictures of a set of wheels Ron Ruff built for me in 2007 using polished WI hubs and black CXray spokes with Kinlin 300 rims. WI hubs are great and these are still going strong.


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## rm -rf (Feb 27, 2006)

I got H2/H3 hubs for durability. The flanges are very strong, and the bearings are easily changed out. See the service PDF on the White Industries website. The H3 has a steel axle and 6 bearings, two large ones on the hub, and two pairs of two small bearings on the titanium freehub.

I did 20 front and 28 rear, since I hit potholes occasionally, and I wanted a stronger rear wheel. The non-drive side tension on the rear is very low, but it hasn't caused me any problems in the year I've had the wheels.


I like all silver. Silver H2 and CXray spokes:


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

I have a set of wheels build on H2/H3 hubs using older Reynolds 46c rims, 20h/24h. They came in under 1500g. They're my second set of wheels on White hubs. I like the hubs- they roll well and the ti freehub body lets me use custom cassettes for difficult climbing races.

The Reynolds blue brake pads work well and are cheaper than the Swissstop yellows.


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## pigpen (Sep 28, 2005)

valleycyclist said:


> White Industries hubs look very nice and are very durable. Servicing is easy, and you can look up hub service instructions on their website. I would definitely not call them heavy hubs, but all of the Campy rear hubs I weighed came in a little heavier than the Shimano rear hubs. Also, for the Campy rear hub, the spoke tension balance will be less than 50%, so you want to make sure the drive side spokes are tensioned properly in order that the non-drive side spokes have reasonable tension.
> 
> Alchemy hubs (at least for the rear Campy hub) is something you may want to consider which will give you a better spoke tension balance.


I too am intrested in the White hubs for a Campy build.
You have me a little worried about the NDS tension though. Mine will be for cross so a durable wheel is a must. 32 hole for me. 

I was under the impression that the larger drive side flange helped offset the tension issues.

Can someone explain why there is such an issue with Campy builds esp. w/ White Industries hubs. 
I do realize that the DS flange is more inboard than Shimano hubs but so are DT's and I have no with them.

Thanks


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## valleycyclist (Nov 1, 2009)

pigpen said:


> I too am intrested in the White hubs for a Campy build.
> You have me a little worried about the NDS tension though. Mine will be for cross so a durable wheel is a must. 32 hole for me.
> 
> I was under the impression that the larger drive side flange helped offset the tension issues.
> ...


I do not think you should be worried about it if you make sure the drive side spokes have sufficient tension to give the non-drive side spokes adequate tension. Some of it will depend on the rim you use. If you use an offset rim such as Velocity Synergy the tension balance will be much better. Doing things such as changing the lacing pattern (e.g. radial heads out on the nondrive side) can also make a difference in tension balancing, but that is probably not such a good idea to try with 32 spokes.

DT Hubs have the left flange much farther towards the center which helps better balance the tension. But the tradeoff is that when the flanges are closer together the wheel may not be as laterally stiff.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

The maintenance factor is easily one of the biggest strongpoints of the H2/H3 hubs. All that you need to access internals is a 2.5mm allen key. Wether your replacing bearings, checking pawls, or cleaning the freehub body, it really only takes about 30 seconds to pull the hubs apart. I cannot think of a single competitor that is anywhere near as easy to service. 
Regarding the entire build, I think it does depend on wether your going tubular or clincher. If you want to run clinchers, I think that the Forty Six would be a great choice. From what we have seen, the braking on Reynolds clinchers is a bit more consistent than that of the Enves. If your running tubulars, on the other hand, I think that the 45 from Enve will far surpass the performance of the Forty Six. The strength to weight ratio is ridiculous and that particular tubular from Enve is astoundingly durable. 
Lastly, here is a picture of the H2 with both black and silver spokes. IMO the silver side has much more aesthetic appeal than the black...


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## RC28 (May 9, 2002)

macming said:


> Sorry, I meant my rims and spokes are black. My hubs are blue


I was falling in love with those wheels until I saw that you're using Gatorskin tubulars! What has this world come to?!?! ;-)


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## Sebastionmerckx (Mar 6, 2008)

I'm a huge fan of these hubs as well. They spin great,are easily serviced, very durable, look great,and the rear hub sounds great. This pair I have on the Colnago was I think 1550 ish grams.


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## macming (Dec 2, 2004)

RC28 said:


> I was falling in love with those wheels until I saw that you're using Gatorskin tubulars! What has this world come to?!?! ;-)


Training tires 

But seriously, this is the first set of tubulars that I've had. When these Gatorskins wear out, I'm going to get a set of nicer tire. Maybe Vittoria CX? I'll keep these Gatorskin somewhere as a backup.

My fiancee is running Michelin Open Pro 3 clinchers, and even those tires ride better than my Gatorskins heheh.


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## NebrVandal (May 5, 2011)

Zen Cyclery said:


> The maintenance factor is easily one of the biggest strongpoints of the H2/H3 hubs. All that you need to access internals is a 2.5mm allen key. Wether your replacing bearings, checking pawls, or cleaning the freehub body, it really only takes about 30 seconds to pull the hubs apart. I cannot think of a single competitor that is anywhere near as easy to service.
> Regarding the entire build, I think it does depend on wether your going tubular or clincher. If you want to run clinchers, I think that the Forty Six would be a great choice. From what we have seen, the braking on Reynolds clinchers is a bit more consistent than that of the Enves. If your running tubulars, on the other hand, I think that the 45 from Enve will far surpass the performance of the Forty Six. The strength to weight ratio is ridiculous and that particular tubular from Enve is astoundingly durable.
> Lastly, here is a picture of the H2 with both black and silver spokes. IMO the silver side has much more aesthetic appeal than the black...


Those would rock w/silver KCNC skewers & match my silver/black Leyzne Road Drive frame pump!


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## ejprez (Nov 9, 2006)

My H3 was laced 2x with dt aerolites and cleared the cassettes 23 tooth and derailleur when I shifted in it. So I decided to try DT comps 14/15/14 on the drive side 2x, maybe it was just all in my head but the wheel felt more stiff when pedalling, but the only problem was the derailleur now hit the spokes when I stood up to pedal hard, it was a light graze. 

When adjusted derailleur to stop hitting it would cause the shift to stutter to the point that it wouldn't shift easily. So I got the great idea to do all heads in, which more than solved the problem and also allowed me to use a Wheelbuilder aero cover with it. Rim is edge/enve 1.68 

So is this a bad idea? The NDS is 2x with aerolites still, I took a quick ride 2 days ago and felt ok, it was around the block. Gonna do a longer ride today on it. If this is going to be a problem or it's a really bad idea please feel free to tell me. Cause then I'll just relace with aerolites, deal with what felt like a less stiff wheel, sell it and get a set of campy branded wheels, like boras or the new bullet series.


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## macming (Dec 2, 2004)

Have you tried putting a small 10 speed cassette spacer in place? I find some of my wheels, without the spacer, the chain would contact the spokes under power. :thumbsup:



ejprez said:


> My H3 was laced 2x with dt aerolites and cleared the cassettes 23 tooth and derailleur when I shifted in it. So I decided to try DT comps 14/15/14 on the drive side 2x, maybe it was just all in my head but the wheel felt more stiff when pedalling, but the only problem was the derailleur now hit the spokes when I stood up to pedal hard, it was a light graze.
> 
> When adjusted derailleur to stop hitting it would cause the shift to stutter to the point that it wouldn't shift easily. So I got the great idea to do all heads in, which more than solved the problem and also allowed me to use a Wheelbuilder aero cover with it. Rim is edge/enve 1.68
> 
> So is this a bad idea? The NDS is 2x with aerolites still, I took a quick ride 2 days ago and felt ok, it was around the block. Gonna do a longer ride today on it. If this is going to be a problem or it's a really bad idea please feel free to tell me. Cause then I'll just relace with aerolites, deal with what felt like a less stiff wheel, sell it and get a set of campy branded wheels, like boras or the new bullet series.


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## ejprez (Nov 9, 2006)

I tried that but then cant get the last small cog on, or it's not really on all the way. nor did a spacer between the freehub and hub work since the freehub is about as far out as it can go without fully exposing the rubber seal.


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## Hillen (May 13, 2005)

I have two wheelsets on H2 hubs. Second favorite set of hubs (second only to Campy hubs). As noted above, reliable, servicable, everything you need. KEEP IN MIND though, that H2 rear hub is NOT compatible with Campy 11 cassettes. H3 hub is compatible with Campy 10 and 11. So make sure you get an H3 hub in the rear. I actually think that the company has discontinued the H2 hubs, so it may not be an issue any how.


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## G2000 (Jul 12, 2012)

What rims are you lacing these hubs too?


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## gofast2wheeler (Oct 13, 2011)

Nice Colnago!! LOVE IT. looks perfect just like that, nothing beats chrome finished hubs on a Master.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

Here are some pics of the new T11s too.


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## lewisl (Nov 15, 2012)

Just got T11's. Beauteous. Put the bike in the rack and the front wheel goes back and forth like a pendulum almost all night.


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## Andreas_Illesch (Jul 9, 2002)

I have doubts about radial lacing on NDS on a WI H2 rear hub (at least H2 ist engraved in the hub shell) since there ist so few material above the spoke holes and I have never done radial on a rear hub before.
The setup will be Sapim Race spokes on DS and Sapim Laser on NDS heads out with a stiff rim (H+Son Archetype). 
Also I'm a light rider at 154 lbs so are these doubts justified?


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## nvanrider (Mar 17, 2009)

rm -rf said:


> I got H2/H3 hubs for durability. The flanges are very strong, and the bearings are easily changed out. See the service PDF on the White Industries website. The H3 has a steel axle and 6 bearings, two large ones on the hub, and two pairs of two small bearings on the titanium freehub.
> 
> I did 20 front and 28 rear, since I hit potholes occasionally, and I wanted a stronger rear wheel. The non-drive side tension on the rear is very low, but it hasn't caused me any problems in the year I've had the wheels.
> 
> ...


Hi there, nice looking wheels. A question, with the CXray spokes, did you have to slot the holes in the hub to slide the spokes through? I'm looking at basically this same build.

Cheers.


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## zigmeister (Jan 26, 2012)

lewisl said:


> Just got T11's. Beauteous. Put the bike in the rack and the front wheel goes back and forth like a pendulum almost all night.


Some wheel builders I've talked with are real pleased and impressed with the latest White T11 hubs. For the money, hard to not be happy with those things.


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## Tunnelrat81 (Mar 18, 2007)

I think the H2/H3 hubs go best with silver spokes. Even with black rims, the silver/silver combo looks great. I've been incredibly happy with these hubs. They look great, function great and sound great. 

-Jeremy


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## Andreas_Illesch (Jul 9, 2002)

Tunnelrat81 said:


> I think the H2/H3 hubs go best with silver spokes. Even with black rims, the silver/silver combo looks great.


That is true.
I've built me a wheelset with H2/H2 Hubs, silver Sapim Spokes and black H-Son Archetypes and it's a sheer beauty.
But after I rode this wheelset three times I found it inferior to my Shimano WH-6700 so I hung it up the wall and went back to my Ultegra wheelset.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

Andreas_Illesch said:


> But after I rode this wheelset three times I found it inferior to my Shimano WH-6700 so I hung it up the wall and went back to my Ultegra wheelset.


Why didn't you like the Archetype/White combo?


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## vagabondcyclist (Apr 2, 2011)

Tunnelrat81 said:


> I think the H2/H3 hubs go best with silver spokes. Even with black rims, the silver/silver combo looks great. I've been incredibly happy with these hubs. They look great, function great and sound great.
> 
> -Jeremy


Nice wheel. Maybe would look a bit better with black nipples?


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## Zampano (Aug 7, 2005)

How does the H3 compare to the T11 for center-to-flange?


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

@Zampano- The T11 is essentially the H3, but with both flanges shifted 2mm to the non drive side. On paper, this isn't as ideal as the old spacing, but it has to happen to accomodate 11 speed drivetrains. 

From what I've seen, there is no real world difference in rigidity between the H3 and T11.


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## Zampano (Aug 7, 2005)

Thanks


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## Andreas_Illesch (Jul 9, 2002)

Zen Cyclery said:


> Why didn't you like the Archetype/White combo?


I can't put my finger on specific characteristics, my WH-6700 just ride/feel better and quicker. 
Lighter rim and fewer, straight and non-interwoven spokes may be the reasons here.


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## rm -rf (Feb 27, 2006)

nvanrider said:


> Hi there, nice looking wheels. A question, with the CXray spokes, did you have to slot the holes in the hub to slide the spokes through? I'm looking at basically this same build.
> 
> Cheers.


cxray spokes are ovalized, not as wide as bladed spokes. No slotting needed.

As an amateur builder, the cxrays help when tensioning, since I can see when they are twisted. I did need to make a spoke untwisting tool--a chunk of an old screwdriver handle with a hacksawed slot in it. Or you can buy a tool.


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