# SRAMs equivalent to Shimano



## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Would anybody be able to tell me what the equivalent SRAMs to the following Shimanos?

Sora
Tiagara
105
Ultegra


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## @helsinki (Apr 29, 2013)

Sora = Apex-ish
Tiagra = Apex
105 = Rival
Ultegra = Force


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## Skaha (Oct 30, 2012)

Dura Ace = Red


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Thank you.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

I disagree pretty strongly. Apex is very much higher quality than Sora. Closer to 105, certainly Tiagra at the very least.

They don't match up totally because of this. I would say that Force/Ultegra and Red/Dura Ace are pretty accurate, but I'd say Rival is about the same as 105 and Apex is just a little below, but above Tiagra and Sora.

But every single group works excellent- including the Rodney Dangerfield of groups, Sora. It's a fine group.

You shouldn't base your decision on these so-called comparisons. Simply (1) decide which type of shifter you like best and then (2) pick the one within that brand that matches your price point. You wont' go wrong with any of them.


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## @helsinki (Apr 29, 2013)

Camilo said:


> I disagree pretty strongly. Apex is very much higher quality than Sora. Closer to 105, certainly Tiagra at the very least.
> 
> They don't match up totally because of this. I would say that Force/Ultegra and Red/Dura Ace are pretty accurate, but I'd say Rival is about the same as 105 and Apex is just a little below, but above Tiagra and Sora.
> 
> ...


My answer was based on general classification by price/quality. Of course no two gruppos are 100% alike.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Camilo said:


> I disagree pretty strongly. Apex is very much higher quality than Sora. Closer to 105, certainly Tiagra at the very least.


+1. Apex is way better than Sora.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

@helsinki said:


> Of course no two gruppos are 100% alike.


Sram and Shimano are not Italian.


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## Wadl (Oct 8, 2011)

Camilo said:


> I disagree pretty strongly. Apex is very much higher quality than Sora. Closer to 105, certainly Tiagra at the very least.
> 
> They don't match up totally because of this. I would say that Force/Ultegra and Red/Dura Ace are pretty accurate, but I'd say Rival is about the same as 105 and Apex is just a little below, but above Tiagra and Sora.
> 
> ...


that's a great post... you should listen to the man !


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

I just needed the information to get more familiar with the "hierarchy" of SRAM sets. I know Shimano, but don't know SRAM, so this comparison would give me an idea if a group set on a bike is one of their higher ends or lower ends.


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## Staylucky (May 2, 2013)

Camilo said:


> I disagree pretty strongly. Apex is very much higher quality than Sora. Closer to 105, certainly Tiagra at the very least.
> 
> They don't match up totally because of this. I would say that Force/Ultegra and Red/Dura Ace are pretty accurate, but I'd say Rival is about the same as 105 and Apex is just a little below, but above Tiagra and Sora.
> 
> ...


Totally agree with you. Sora is garbage and Tiagra are just ok.

SRAM Apex IMO is a really sturdy line, almost as good as the 105.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Staylucky said:


> Totally agree with you. Sora is garbage and Tiagra are just ok.
> 
> SRAM Apex IMO is a really sturdy line, almost as good as the 105.


I was actually saying that Sora works fine but doesn't get any respect (the "Rodney Dangerfield" reference). Sure it's cheap and probably wouldn't hold up to hard and long term use. But every Sora bike I've ridden (rented several times), shifts great and gets the job done just fine. My daughter and wife actually prefer it because the thumb shifting makes sense to them and fits their hands well - but they don't ride in the drops at all. For an entry level bike, most likely used by a casual and sporadic rider, it's an excellent choice for the price point.

Me? I'd choose Apex any time and if I was told I could only ever own an Apex-level group for the rest of my riding life, I'd be perfectly fine with that. I'd have to say, I'd probably be OK with Sora too, but less so.


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## Staylucky (May 2, 2013)

Camilo said:


> I was actually saying that Sora works fine but doesn't get any respect (the "Rodney Dangerfield" reference). Sure it's cheap and probably wouldn't hold up to hard and long term use. But every Sora bike I've ridden (rented several times), shifts great and gets the job done just fine. My daughter and wife actually prefer it because the thumb shifting makes sense to them and fits their hands well - but they don't ride in the drops at all. For an entry level bike, most likely used by a casual and sporadic rider, it's an excellent choice for the price point.
> 
> Me? I'd choose Apex any time and if I was told I could only ever own an Apex-level group for the rest of my riding life, I'd be perfectly fine with that. I'd have to say, I'd probably be OK with Sora too, but less so.


You're definitely on to something there. It all depends on the rider and use. If I wasn't riding so regularly I'd probably be happy with the Tiagra and Sora sets.

I've never owned a bike with Sora but have ridden a few, they just don't feel as sturdy as the 105 but I will agree, the thumb shifter is nice to have when you mostly ride the hubs like me. I believe that used to be the same case as 105?? 

I'm a big fan of the Apex, really good value, though if I had choice, I'd go Rival. A friend of mine has Rival Group on his Synapse and they are really great. I'd say they're a bit noisier than the Shimano components but it could just be his particular bike.

Cheers to the Dangerfield reference!


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## Guod (Jun 9, 2011)

The disparity becomes more apparent if you factor in weight in addition to feel and function.

Apex and Rival are lighter than Ultegra and Force is lighter than Dura-Ace (by a good bit if you're running BB30). Function-wise, I'd have to put Apex and Rival at or above 105 and Force above Ultegra especially since the new Force groups have zero loss in both shifters now. Really though, the function debate is all subjective.

Quality is good for both, though once again, I'd have to put Apex and Rival at or above 105. They're quite a bit better than Tiagra or Sora. 

Dura-Ace and Red are just kick-ass no matter how you look at it. Dura-Ace definitely has the edge in front shifting though, even with the new design for SRAM. Red with BB30 is the lightest group you can get right now.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Staylucky said:


> Totally agree with you. Sora is garbage and Tiagra are just ok.
> 
> SRAM Apex IMO is a really sturdy line, almost as good as the 105.


Did you just make all that crap up?

Sora works fine. Tiagra is as good as most people need. 
Have you ever ridden a properly set up Sora drivetrain? I have set up a bunch and when they are done right they work well. 
Tiagra, especially the newer 4600 works very well. Probably well enough that it can preform as well as most riders will ever need it to. In fact when set up right and perfect I would say it shifts as well or better than alot of the Ultegra and DA bikes I have worked on. Primarly on account of the way the cables are routed, Not under the tape. 

Now onto S(h)RAM vs. Shimano and even Campagnolo. They all work well and none of them really have anything that is true junk. So it all comes down to what level you want and how you want it to feel and shift. Thats it. They all have something to fit the bill, from the bottom to the top. 

Now do you want to explain why Sora is garbage? Or can you?


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## charlox5 (Jan 31, 2011)

I'm not a shimano guy, but I would ride a 4600 equipped bike. From what I can tell it's basically 5600.


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## AndreyT (Dec 1, 2011)

Camilo said:


> I disagree pretty strongly. Apex is very much higher quality than Sora. Closer to 105, certainly Tiagra at the very least.


Well, that's why he said "Apex-ish" - simply because there's no direct analogue to Sora in SRAM lineup. 

Certainly there's no debate that Apex is in a significantly higher class than Sora in all regards.


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## StillKeen (Oct 4, 2005)

I agree with the alignments for where they are positioned by the manufacturers, but you really need to ride them to see.

I've only owned Shimano (105, Ultegra and Dura-ace) and had a rental Rival bike for a 65 mile sportive. The rental was setup perfectly by the shop, however, the feel of Rival and the almighty clunk when changing the front chainring down ... even my 105 felt more civilized.

It's going to come down to a balance of weight (for which SRAM win hands down), price and which feels better to you. If you like the way Rival feels, then it's an absolute bargain for a group that light at Rival prices ... however if you don't like the feel of it, then you'll always wish you'd spent more (maybe Force is nicer feeling? Or on some Shimano).


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

Also, keep in mind that components vary from one year to another. Campagnolo Centaur seems to be the most blatant example of this as it can be a few grams away from Record one year and intro level the next (with specific components, not the overall groupset); I swear you need a map to measure out some of the changes made over the last decade.


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## Staylucky (May 2, 2013)

tihsepa said:


> Did you just make all that crap up?
> 
> Sora works fine. Tiagra is as good as most people need.
> Have you ever ridden a properly set up Sora drivetrain? I have set up a bunch and when they are done right they work well.
> ...


In my experience (my wife's bike) with a Sora groupset it seems that after every ride the whole drive train needs to be tuned up, even the brakes. It's a bit annoying when halfway through the ride the gears are out of whack. The crank has a noticeable amount of give when mashing up a hill, unlike the 105 and Ultegra that are considerably stiff and feel stable. 

Tiagra, I've only ridden some bikes with Tiagra components and like I said, they're just ok. I'd probably be happy with it if I was a casual, once a week or couple times a month rider, but considering the amount of riding I do, I would probably get annoyed with the loud and rough shifting they seem to have. 

Maybe I've been spoiled by the 105 and Ultegra components I've used, but I don't think Tiagra and Sora cut it for the serious cyclist. That's my not so humble opinion.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Staylucky said:


> In my experience (my wife's bike) with a Sora groupset it seems that after every ride the whole drive train needs to be tuned up, even the brakes. It's a bit annoying when halfway through the ride the gears are out of whack. The crank has a noticeable amount of give when mashing up a hill, unlike the 105 and Ultegra that are considerably stiff and feel stable.
> 
> Tiagra, I've only ridden some bikes with Tiagra components and like I said, they're just ok. I'd probably be happy with it if I was a casual, once a week or couple times a month rider, but considering the amount of riding I do, I would probably get annoyed with the loud and rough shifting they seem to have.
> 
> Maybe I've been spoiled by the 105 and Ultegra components I've used, but I don't think Tiagra and Sora cut it for the serious cyclist. That's my not so humble opinion.


I blame needing a tune up half way through a ride on a crappy tune up before a ride. 

The only ride I ever needed a tune up half way through was RAGBRAI. That was on account of me doing a half assed job before I left home.


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## Staylucky (May 2, 2013)

Or they're like I said before, garbage parts. 

But to each his own. Sora has a market in you, not me and that's perfectly fine.


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## Tachycardic (Mar 31, 2013)

Let's be realistic...anything less than Super Record, Dura-Ace, Red are garbage. And anything less than a Rolls Royce are garbage.

In all seriousness, the latest Sora and Tiagra groups are quite good for their intended audiences. You want to say that older versions of Sora and Tiagra were below Apex in quality, fine. But calling them garbage is just being harsh. They have improved quite a bit--thanks in big part to competition between the companies. And we as consumers will benefit.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

Sora, Tiagra, Veloce, Apex... they are what they are, designed for casual week-end riders. It would be nice if the manufacturers would just label what each series is designed for (mileage wise) and then there would be no reason for all the conjecture. It would come down to need and preference without the marketing based guess work.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Staylucky said:


> In my experience (my wife's bike) with a Sora groupset it seems that after every ride the whole drive train needs to be tuned up, even the brakes. It's a bit annoying when halfway through the ride the gears are out of whack. The crank has a noticeable amount of give when mashing up a hill, unlike the 105 and Ultegra that are considerably stiff and feel stable.
> 
> Tiagra, I've only ridden some bikes with Tiagra components and like I said, they're just ok. I'd probably be happy with it if I was a casual, once a week or couple times a month rider, but considering the amount of riding I do, I would probably get annoyed with the loud and rough shifting they seem to have.
> 
> Maybe I've been spoiled by the 105 and Ultegra components I've used, but I don't think Tiagra and Sora cut it for the serious cyclist. That's my not so humble opinion.


I just built up a DeBernardi with new Sora. (for sale, not for me - I'm a Campy and Sram guy) It shifts as well as 5600 105. Tiagra is every bit as good as current 105. Better, actually, since it doesn't have that stupid dead spot in the inner shift lever. Sorry, but current 105 sucks. It feels cheap.


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## flatsix911 (Jun 28, 2009)

View attachment 280234


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

tihsepa said:


> I blame needing a tune up half way through a ride on a crappy tune up before a ride.
> 
> The only ride I ever needed a tune up half way through was RAGBRAI. That was on account of me doing a half assed job before I left home.


I am not the guy to get into a pi$$ing match over Sora because I don't like it that much, but I'm on your team for the match! Both my wife and I rode Sora rentals from Sisters Oregon, over McKenzie Pass, out to the coast and a couple of day rides along the coast for around 7 days and 250 miles. We didn't mess around with the Sora stuff - shifters, brakes,nothing. They were carefree bikes. I'm only 165 lbs and my wife is around 100, so we don't stress equipment, but going up McKenzie pass, my weak-a$$ legs didn't notice any give in the crank.

Like you, I would think that any problem with mid-ride tuning on a "settled in" group (i.e. not newly installed) would be due to some error in cabling, derailleur fine tuning, or something.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Camilo said:


> I am not the guy to get into a pi$$ing match over Sora because I don't like it that much, but I'm on your team for the match! Both my wife and I rode Sora rentals from Sisters Oregon, over McKenzie Pass, out to the coast and a couple of day rides along the coast for around 7 days and 250 miles. We didn't mess around with the Sora stuff - shifters, brakes,nothing. They were carefree bikes. I'm only 165 lbs and my wife is around 100, so we don't stress equipment, but going up McKenzie pass, my weak-a$$ legs didn't notice any give in the crank.
> 
> Like you, I would think that any problem with mid-ride tuning on a "settled in" group (i.e. not newly installed) would be due to some error in cabling, derailleur fine tuning, or something.


I am not looking for a pissing match either. But, Sora is good for the intended audience. I have tuned and set up a bunch of Sora bikes and they all come out well. 

For me, I like good stuff. Ultegra at least. Why? Because I can. Thats about it. Do I need it? No way in hell.


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## locustfist (Feb 21, 2009)

I found this in the Googles: Road Groupset Chart | bicycle components


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Whoever created that chard doesn't understand anything. To compare Record 11 to Ultegra is nonsensical, even if it's the new 11 speed Ultegra.

So I took their chart and adjusted it to a more accurate reflection of the "levels"

With Campag's imminent launch of an internal battery for EPS, they should be able to go toe to toe with the Goliath of Shimano.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

ultimobici said:


> Whoever created that chard doesn't understand anything. To compare Record 11 to Ultegra is nonsensical, even if it's the new 11 speed Ultegra.
> 
> So I took their chart and adjusted it to a more accurate reflection of the "levels"
> 
> With Campag's imminent launch of an internal battery for EPS, they should be able to go toe to toe with the Goliath of Shimano.


^ This is more accurate.


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## flatsix911 (Jun 28, 2009)

locustfist said:


> I found this in the Googles: Road Groupset Chart | bicycle components


The truth :thumbsup:

View attachment 280233


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

As I said earlier, utter balderdash!


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## flatsix911 (Jun 28, 2009)

One more ... 

View attachment 280235


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

flatsix911 said:


> The truth :thumbsup:
> 
> View attachment 280233



Yeah... no. No way.

Ultegra is not the same level as Record, and comparing Chorus to 105? LOLZ. :lol: :frown2:


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

PlatyPius said:


> I just built up a DeBernardi with new Sora. (for sale, not for me - I'm a Campy and Sram guy) It shifts as well as 5600 105. Tiagra is every bit as good as current 105. Better, actually, since it doesn't have that stupid dead spot in the inner shift lever. Sorry, but current 105 sucks. It feels cheap.


Isn't this the about the part of the thread where some butthurt 105 afficionado jumps in and rips into you, accusing you of being a 'biased LBS owner' who 'hates Shimano'? 

Just sayin', Plat. Wait for it, wait for it....


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## flatsix911 (Jun 28, 2009)

SystemShock said:


> Isn't this the about the part of the thread where some butt-hurt 105 aficionado jumps in and rips into you, accusing you of being a 'biased LBS owner' who 'hates Shimano'?


No, this is the part of the thread where some butt-hurt Campy fan realizes that they are paying way to much ... :thumbsup:


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

SystemShock said:


> Just sayin', Plat. Wait for it, wait for it....


You forgot to say "engage."

Any of these charts are pure nonsense since you can't empirically test what is left to personal preference. You can't base a comparison on weight alone either. Few if any who put together such charts have tested the various components under similar conditions for 1000s of miles in order to compare longevity.

That said, I agree... comparing 105 to Chorus is nonsense. 

Perhaps the problem with these threads is that there are different variables to consider and the OP never specifies what is in fact the most important one. For me, it's: longevity(and rebuild-ability) > comfort&feel > speed > weight > price. Mix the order of those variables around and I could make like five or more different tables with slight variations in the order. Due to personal bias, I'd also find a way to make sure Campy was always on top*. 

*except for price... can't compete with volume and Asian manufacturing. But then, I don't drink Bud-light either.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

flatsix911 said:


> No, this is the part of the thread where some butt-hurt Campy fan realizes that they are paying way to much ... :thumbsup:


Campy-bashing is so '90s.

Srsly, who cares anymore? At least in the US... Campy's barely even trying to compete in our market.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

headloss said:


> You forgot to say "engage."


Yay my avatar. :thumbsup:


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## locustfist (Feb 21, 2009)

SystemShock said:


> Yeah... no. No way.
> 
> Ultegra is not the same level as Record, and comparing Chorus to 105? LOLZ. :lol: :frown2:


I would agree, Record is better than Ultegra. I would also add that Force is much better than Ultegra.

But, as a matter of what a given company chooses to put in the market segment, that chart seems to reflect accurately.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

What that chart does is to simply list each brand's groups in order with little thought given to where each is relative to their competition.

The amended version I posted is more accurate, they may be aimed at similar groups of riders but their pricing refines things down a little further. 

To suggest Centaur is pitched against Tiagra is nonsensical, as is Apex on the same level as Tiagra. Their labelling of Record as high end mechanical is equally nonsensical, most professional teams on Campagnolo are on Record or Record EPS even in the ProTour. The Campagnolo lines need moving up a notch so Chorus is in the high end performance slot with Athena in its place. Similarly the whole Sram line should be compressed upwards. Can you actually buy a bike with Apex on it for the same as a Tiagra bike?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Staylucky said:


> In my experience (my wife's bike) with a Sora groupset it seems that after every ride the whole drive train needs to be tuned up, even the brakes. It's a bit annoying when halfway through the ride the gears are out of whack. *The crank has a noticeable amount of give when mashing up a hill,* unlike the 105 and Ultegra that are considerably stiff and feel stable.
> 
> Tiagra, I've only ridden some bikes with Tiagra components and like I said, they're just ok. I'd probably be happy with it if I was a casual, once a week or couple times a month rider, but considering the amount of riding I do, I would probably get annoyed with the loud and rough shifting they seem to have.
> 
> Maybe I've been spoiled by the 105 and Ultegra components I've used, but I don't think Tiagra and Sora cut it for the serious cyclist. That's my not so humble opinion.


that's pretty funny. a forged aluminum crank that's 'too flexible'? sure.


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## Sean (May 7, 2013)

charlox5 said:


> I'm not a shimano guy, but I would ride a 4600 equipped bike. From what I can tell it's basically 5600.


Just get new brakes (or shoes/pads) as the 4600 brakes are bad, compared to my old 5600 brakes (with no pad upgrade). They are probably good compared to many V- or canti-brakes...


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## AJ88V (Nov 14, 2012)

PlatyPius said:


> I just built up a DeBernardi with new Sora. (for sale, not for me - I'm a Campy and Sram guy) It shifts as well as 5600 105. Tiagra is every bit as good as current 105. Better, actually, since it doesn't have that stupid dead spot in the inner shift lever. Sorry, but current 105 sucks. It feels cheap.


I liked how the 105 shifted on my wife's old bike (2011 model), but agree that for some reason the shifters just felt and looked cheap, insubstantial. They shifted quite well, just cheesey and I can't put my finger on it. Maybe it was that the throw on the lever seemed huge compared to the Rival and Force shifters I'm used to. 

That said, I am not a big fan of SRAM's front shifters, either Rival or Force, and plan on upgrading to Red with Yaw, although I may try a Shimano front derailleur first, since they are so cheap used on ebay.


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## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

Super Record/Record are a single comparison.

The CULT bearings on the BB, a few TI bolts and the backside of the RD being carbon are the only differences. The are essentially the same group.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

ewitz said:


> Super Record/Record are a single comparison.
> 
> The CULT bearings on the BB, a few TI bolts and the backside of the RD being carbon are the only differences. The are essentially the same group.


True, and a lot of ppl forget that, and/or have no experience with Campy.


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## charlox5 (Jan 31, 2011)

flatsix911 said:


> No, this is the part of the thread where some butt-hurt Campy fan realizes that they are paying way to much ... :thumbsup:


I paid less for my Chorus/Athena Mix than I would have for Ultegra or Force 

Granted, I bought from the UK shops, and as Plat has said, UK street pricing is less than campy's US wholesale price, but I think it's like System Shock has described: Campagnolo has written off the US market.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

ewitz said:


> Super Record/Record are a single comparison.
> 
> The CULT bearings on the BB, a few TI bolts and the backside of the RD being carbon are the only differences. The are essentially the same group.


By that definition, ALL groups are the same and should be in the same category. Ultegra is the same as Dura Ace aside from a few parts. Rival and Force are the same, aside from a few grams. Etc.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Not quite. In addition to the differences you mention


Record Ergos are different internally from Super Record
SR Rear mech has is almost all carbon
Cassettes have 6 Ti sprockets not 3
Cranks have Ti axle

If anything Chorus & Record are closer mechanically. 

The ergopower levers are the same bar the brake lever blades
Rear mech is cosmetically different


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

ultimobici said:


> Not quite. In addition to the differences you mention
> 
> 
> Record Ergos are different internally from Super Record
> ...


Chorus and Record are closer than Record and SR? You're the first person I've ever heard say that. 

How different are the Record Ergos from SR? The rest of the what you list as differences aren't exactly showstoppers.


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## downtube (Mar 17, 2011)

So from my stand point, My wife rides an apex bike and a red bike both perform perfectly. She rides 3500 to 4500 miles a year no issues. My son has a force bike it is just fine no issues either although not as many miles a year as mom. I used to ride campy record 10 now record 11, Thousands of miles zero issues. What have I learned? The new stuff is all good.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Chorus & Record use the same shifter unit. The only difference is the lever blade on Record is slotted & the logo says "Record".

What I should have written was, "in many ways" Comes from posting when too tired to think properly!


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

Judging by parts diagrams... I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Record sits between SR and Chorus; shocking, I know. I suppose that I could tally up the number of borrowed parts and statistically analyze which is closer to the other? Personally, I see SR in a world of its own as it seems to place weight reduction above all other priorities with no concern for longterm durability. Or to put it another way, it's built for racing and only racing (and a rather high price tag to boot). Regardless, it's moot since that discussion has nothing to do with the OP of this thread.


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