# Will a SRAM Yaw 22 FD work with a 10 speed setup?



## AJ88V (Nov 14, 2012)

Or are the throw and cage spacings incompatible with a 10 speed chain/wheel?


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## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

Should still work...you still only have two rings in the front.


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## pamt (Sep 8, 2011)

Works fine with my 2011 Force 10 speed group


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## pamt (Sep 8, 2011)

Just make sure you watch the video several times before you attempt to install. Not rocket science but the procedure is completely different than anything you may have installed in the past from any maker


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## AJ88V (Nov 14, 2012)

Thanks, folks.

Next question: Is it worth it? I currently have a Rival FD on my 10-speed group, but have never liked the way it shifted. The trim function works fine. Just found a good price on the Force 22 Yaw and thought it might be worth a try.

So is it worth it? Thx.


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## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

I've read that it does work better. You'll lose the trim feature in your current levers.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

what's the difference between a 10 speed Yaw front derailleur and an 11 speed? Is there any difference re the amount of movement?


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## AJ88V (Nov 14, 2012)

stevesbike said:


> what's the difference between a 10 speed Yaw front derailleur and an 11 speed? Is there any difference re the amount of movement?


That's what I was wondering. I just looked at the Exogram crankset and the "22" and regular 10-speed versions have the same weight, but there were no dimension changes that I could discern.


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## j.king (Mar 23, 2005)

Yes.

I never liked the original SRAM FD's. I had been using a 5700 series 105 FD for awhile and I just swapped it out for a Force 22 FD.

View attachment 284430


Here's the setup I'm running.

SRAM Force 10spd shifters (2011?)
Shimano Ultegra chain 6701
Rotor crank with Stronglight CT2 chainrings (52/36)
SRAM Force 22 FD 

It works really really well. Such a difference in front shifting quality.


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## AJ88V (Nov 14, 2012)

j.king said:


> Yes.
> 
> I never liked the original SRAM FD's. I had been using a 5700 series 105 FD for awhile and I just swapped it out for a Force 22
> 
> ...


This is exactly what I was looking to hear. The Force 22 Yaw dérailleur looks like a real bargain. 

Thanks to all for your responses!


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## farva (Jun 24, 2005)

Wouldn't the cage be narrower on 22 front der since its intended for a thinner 11 spd chain?


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## AJ88V (Nov 14, 2012)

farva said:


> Wouldn't the cage be narrower on 22 front der since its intended for a thinner 11 spd chain?


This is what I was concerned about too. From Wikipedia


> Sizes
> Exploded view of a few bicycle chain links
> 
> The chain in use on modern bicycles has a 1/2" pitch, which is ANSI standard #40, where the 4 in "#40" indicates the pitch of the chain in eighths of an inch, and metric #8, where the 8 indicates the pitch in sixteenths of an inch.
> ...


The chain width difference is pretty small, 0.33 mm = 0.013". In fact, that's so small that I wonder if an 11 speed chain might work just fine on a 10-speed setup, with the benefits of easier adjustment and quieter operation.

As to the front derailleur, from Sheldon Brown's website 6-speed, 7-speed, 8-speed, 9-speed, 10-speed, 11-speed?:


> Derailers-Front
> Front derailers don't generally care how many gears you have in back, though models designated for higher numbers of speeds may have slightly narrower cages , so they might be a bit more fussy in adjustment/trim when used with wider chains.
> 
> Front derailers are generally 2- or 3-chainring specific.
> ...


Later, the inestimable Mr. Brown writes:


> Chainrings/Cranks
> Old Chainrings, New Chains
> There is a lot of confusion about the compatibility of narrow 9- and 10-speed chains with older cranksets. Shimano says you should replace the inner chainring(s) with specially designated 9- or 10-speed ones, but then they're all too eager to sell you stuff, whether you need it or not.
> 
> ...


Take all that together and it sounds like the front derailleur should work just fine. An 11-speed chain sounds like it would work fine too. I've done a little web surfing and there is some evidence that everything should work, but I'd do a little more searching before trying such a switch.


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## AJ88V (Nov 14, 2012)

For reference: Just bought the Force 22 Yaw FD off Amazon (through Xtreme Bike & Sport) for $56.70 shipped (including chain spotter!).
Amazon.com: SRAM Force22 Braze-On Front Derailleur: Sports & Outdoors

That's on par with an Ultegra FD and cheaper than a Dura Ace that some people have used when dissatisfied with the standard, non-Yaw SRAM FDs. 

Can't find the link now, but one of the big cycling mags tested all sorts of combos and estimated you got 90% of the benefit going Yaw FD with regular crankset combared to Yaw FD and Red crankset.

EDIT: Found it! It works! We test SRAM Red backwards compatibility


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## j.king (Mar 23, 2005)

AJ88V said:


> The chain width difference is pretty small, 0.33 mm = 0.013". In fact, that's so small that I wonder if an 11 speed chain might work just fine on a 10-speed setup, with the benefits of easier adjustment and quieter operation.


Off topic but...I know the new Dura-Ace will shift perfectly fine on a 10spd cassette everything else being 11 spd.

As far as the 11 spd Force 22 FD cage width there is nothing to be concerned about. Since installing the Force 22 FD and having put some decent km's on it I've had not a single issue. It works great you'll love it.


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## chiasticon (Aug 23, 2011)

FYI: there's another thread going on this and i made some comments regarding my experience trying this over there. LINK


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## B05 (Jul 31, 2011)

My current set up of all 2011 Rival + 2012 Red crank is going to be changed to:

- Ultegra 6750 crank
- SRAM Force 22 FD

Should work correct?


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## JSWhaler (Nov 25, 2009)

Yes, it will work fine. I run SRAM Red 10 speed with Red yaw 22 fd along with dura ace 7950 crankset and have no issues. It does shift better in the front, but honestly my dura ace 7800 bike has better front shifting.


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## B05 (Jul 31, 2011)

JSWhaler said:


> Yes, it will work fine. I run SRAM Red 10 speed with Red yaw 22 fd along with dura ace 7950 crankset and have no issues. It does shift better in the front, but honestly my dura ace 7800 bike has better front shifting.


would you recommend a 7800 FD then?

any chain rub on the yaw 22 fd?

thanks!


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## framesti (Jan 26, 2009)

*Yaw 22 FD*



JSWhaler said:


> It does shift better in the front


 How much better does it shift?


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## JSWhaler (Nov 25, 2009)

I've used a DA. 7800, sram force, and now the newest YAW fd. The YAW works the best and I'd just get it and be done with it. I only get chain rub if I cross chain, otherwise no issues. It shifts well, just not as good as shimano IMO. However, I love the rear shifting.


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## shredmore (Jan 6, 2015)

*shredmore*



farva said:


> Wouldn't the cage be narrower on 22 front der since its intended for a thinner 11 spd chain?


Based on measurements with a dial caliper, the Red 22 front derailleur cage is approximately 0.05 inches narrower at the front end than the Red 2012 (for reference purposes, 0.05 inches is approximately the width of the metal used for the inner part of the cage). This narrower width carries through to the rearmost cage pivot point. The measured width from the middle of the rear portion to the back end of the Red 22 cage (before the carbon fiber part) varied between 0.04 inches and 0.03 inches wider than the Red 2012.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

Well, I just ordered my Force 22 FD for my 10 spd Force shifters and crankset. I'm going to be able to run small/small all day now:blush2:


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## scott967 (Apr 26, 2012)

ziscwg said:


> Well, I just ordered my Force 22 FD for my 10 spd Force shifters and crankset. I'm going to be able to run small/small all day now:blush2:


I have about 5,000 miles on my Force 22 Yaw FD (everything else Force 10) no issues.

scott s.
.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

ziscwg said:


> Well, I just ordered my Force 22 FD for my 10 spd Force shifters and crankset. I'm going to be able to run small/small all day now:blush2:





scott967 said:


> I have about 5,000 miles on my Force 22 Yaw FD (everything else Force 10) no issues.
> 
> scott s.
> .


The install was different than the norm, but I just followed the vids and poof, it worked almost perfect. I had to adj cable tension, but that was it.

I can run small, small, but I don't.


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## BCSaltchucker (Jul 20, 2011)

works no problem

I just took off my Rival 10 frt and Rr Derailleurs and put on Red22 derailleurs. Retaining the Rival 10 shifters. much nicer!

Now the front works MUCH better, more intelligently. Before I could access only the lowest 3 cogs on the small chainring Now I can access all 10 cogs in small chainring. This makes more sense, closer to how gears are traditionally used.

Someone mentioned you lose trim function in the levers. This is nonsense. I still have trim on the big ring to help access more of the block.


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## BCSaltchucker (Jul 20, 2011)

AvantDale said:


> I've read that it does work better. You'll lose the trim feature in your current levers.


wrong. changing Fr Derailleur does not affect the shifter at all. I have Rival10 with Red22 derailleurs. I still have the same trim function on the big ring. But now from the small ring I can access all 10 cogs - before it was only 3 lowest cogs.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

BCSaltchucker said:


> works no problem
> 
> I just took off my Rival 10 frt and Rr Derailleurs and put on Red22 derailleurs. Retaining the Rival 10 shifters. much nicer!
> 
> ...


I found I did not need the trim function in reality. The only gear that touched the FD was the big/big combo. I would only run that by accident. The inner front of the FD would just make a slight rub if I went big big.


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## BCSaltchucker (Jul 20, 2011)

yeah it hardly seems to be important to need the trim now that the yaw enables wide access to the block. Though the way mine is set up right now, I don't think I can go big-big at all, however can get all 10 cogs in the small chainring without need of trim.

and really like how the Red22 comes with a nice finely tunable chain catcher built in. Got this derailleur slight used for the price of a new Force22 model

though I see even Rival22 has all the same yaw functionality. and chain catcher now. nice


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## scott967 (Apr 26, 2012)

BCSaltchucker said:


> yeah it hardly seems to be important to need the trim now that the yaw enables wide access to the block. Though the way mine is set up right now, I don't think I can go big-big at all, however can get all 10 cogs in the small chainring without need of trim.
> 
> and really like how the Red22 comes with a nice finely tunable chain catcher built in. Got this derailleur slight used for the price of a new Force22 model
> 
> though I see even Rival22 has all the same yaw functionality. and chain catcher now. nice


I have a Force22 yaw and the chain catcher is well designed. Also like the hex head limit screws instead of Phillips. But it only has a single mounting hole ("braze" on) while my previous one had a hole for standard and a hole for compact. I had to drop the yaw one down all the way (I guess I could Dremel the slot in the hanger to let the DR sit a little lower if I had to. I ordered a Red 22 crankset so might do that when I put on the new cranks.)

scott s.
.


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## Keoki (Feb 13, 2012)

What is this trim are you guys talking about? Please explain, I have a Red Yaw 10 speed FD and never heard of this trimming thing.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Keoki said:


> What is this trim are you guys talking about? Please explain, I have a Red Yaw 10 speed FD and never heard of this trimming thing.


First gen Red shifters have a trim position on the big ring, second gen Red (Yaw derailleur) don't have it.


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## Keoki (Feb 13, 2012)

cxwrench said:


> First gen Red shifters have a trim position on the big ring, second gen Red (Yaw derailleur) don't have it.


Thanks! This is the second time you've taught me about trim (Record FD & now Yaw FD). 

I also have a Ultegra 6800 FD. Is there a trim thingy on this as well?


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