# Disco = ha ha ha ha ha...



## Mosovich (Feb 3, 2004)

I mean come on guys. WTF, Hincapie as the leader? Why didn't they really push Popovich or Salvadeli for the tour instead of going with Hincapie? I like Hincapie as a classics rider, and he did good last year after following wheels and arm chaired a stage win, but to have him as team leader?  

I really think if they had've said at the beginning of the season, Popo or Savlo, you're the men for the tour, they would've been better prepared.

Maybe Lance's killer instict is what made the team what it was.


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## rs3o (Jan 22, 2004)

Yep, it appears that Disco is dead. The question is, was it the vapid, shallow music (Sheryl Crow), the big hair (Eki), the drugs (no comment) or something better that came along to replace it? Only time will tell.


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Classic, they cracked open like a Pinata. Hincapie GC guy, hehehehe. Can't wait to see the Excuse-O-Meter get pegged by Bruyneel.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Ha Ha?*



Mosovich said:


> I mean come on guys. WTF, Hincapie as the leader? Why didn't they really push Popovich or Salvadeli for the tour instead of going with Hincapie? I like Hincapie as a classics rider, and he did good last year after following wheels and arm chaired a stage win, but to have him as team leader?
> 
> I really think if they had've said at the beginning of the season, Popo or Savlo, you're the men for the tour, they would've been better prepared.
> 
> Maybe Lance's killer instict is what made the team what it was.


WTF...are you trolling? Anyway. Your analysis is part wrong part correct. Popo and Savoldelli blew before Hincappie today so your wrong on picking them over Hincappie. The part your correct about is that Lance got the guys to go beyond what they are doing now. It appears that Lance played 2 rolls: The Team Engine, and The Cycling Engine. They(the team) don't have the collective instinct to stay and fight together without a leader.


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## Mocat4 (Jul 7, 2006)

Mosovich said:


> Maybe Lance's killer instict is what made the team what it was.


It's looking more and more like that was the case. I'm sure not wanting to piss off the big man was a big incentive to drag one's carcass up the mountain at the front of the group. George just doens't have the "do it or I'll put you on my hit list" kind of personality that Lance did....George is too nice of a guy!

BUT....as Floyd showed today, in this year's TDF not having a lot of teamates in the lead group is not as big a factor. Floyd has the killer instinct that Lance had AND he's a nice guy......a true rarity IMHO.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Hincapie is such a terrible leader, he only nearly won the prologue and only won the yellow jersey for one day.

I don;t think you are seeing the big picture. A lot of teams cracked today, not just Disco, and one rider, Leipheimer, was reborn.

Enjoy the race.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

dagger said:


> WTF...are you trolling? Anyway. Your analysis is part wrong part correct. Popo and Savoldelli blew before Hincappie today so your wrong on picking them over Hincappie. The part your correct about is that Lance got the guys to go beyond what they are doing now. It appears that Lance played 2 rolls: The Team Engine, and The Cycling Engine. They(the team) don't have the collective instinct to stay and fight together without a leader.


But in the end Azevedo and Popovych finished 10 min ahead of Hincapie and Savoldelli. 

I don't really understand it - Hincapie is so skinny and all he had to do is *simply* "hang on" with the best climbers, as he has done so many times before. (that was sarcasm by the way).

Whatever you say, Hincapie was way, way, WAY overhyped as a GC favorite.


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## vantongerloo (Aug 26, 2005)

Not an excuse, but:
Did anyone see the grpahic of Hincapie's shoulder in Velonews? His collarbone is not connected to his shoulder at all. I have no idea how well I would ride like that, but I tell you one thing: not well.

So, Landis rides without one hip (while the other ones scrapes on the inside of his pelvis like a router bit). Hincapie rides with one shoulder. O'Grady rides with a broken back....


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

vantongerloo said:


> Not an excuse, but:
> Did anyone see the grpahic of Hincapie's shoulder in Velonews? His collarbone is not connected to his shoulder at all. I have no idea how well I would ride like that, but I tell you one thing: not well.
> 
> So, Landis rides without one hip (while the other ones scrapes on the inside of his pelvis like a router bit). Hincapie rides with one shoulder. O'Grady rides with a broken back....


Hincapie's shoulder would have no effect on his ability to ride, unless he just separated it yesterday or today.

I separated my shoulder a few years back in a mountain biking crash (hurt like crazy for a month or so) and my collar bone is no longer attached on the outside of my right shoulder. It doesn't hinder my ability to ride at all and I put a heck of a lot more pressure on it than Hincapie does.

Hincapie's excuse is he isn't a very good climber.


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

dagger said:


> WTF...are you trolling? Anyway. Your analysis is part wrong part correct. Popo and Savoldelli blew before Hincappie today so your wrong on picking them over Hincappie. The part your correct about is that Lance got the guys to go beyond what they are doing now. It appears that Lance played 2 rolls: The Team Engine, and The Cycling Engine. They(the team) don't have the collective instinct to stay and fight together without a leader.


Agree 100%...


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*yup*



wipeout said:


> Agree 100%...


ditto


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## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

*I never for a minute...*



55x11 said:


> But in the end Azevedo and Popovych finished 10 min ahead of Hincapie and Savoldelli.
> 
> I don't really understand it - Hincapie is so skinny and all he had to do is *simply* "hang on" with the best climbers, as he has done so many times before. (that was sarcasm by the way).
> 
> Whatever you say, Hincapie was way, way, WAY overhyped as a GC favorite.


...bought into it that Hincapie was even on the same freakin' planet as the real GC contenders. So my response to Hincapie's Tour so far is: yawn...just EXACTLY what I suspected...yawn. I would have been completely surprised if he HAD ridden well up in the overall.


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## cyclodawg (Jul 1, 2003)

*2007 Tour*

Looks like it's Danielson's team next July, unless they sign a Levi or a Landis (or possibly even a guy like Vino). Salvodelli and Popo might have some success in Italy, but they're still a long way away from being threats north of the border. Hincapie just isn't a GC guy physiologically apparently. 

TD won't win the Tour in his first try, but I would expect them to protect him and probably another rider, Ace or Popo, next year. If he podiums in the Vuelta, he might be the undisputed leader. 

If Disco wants a real Tour contender next year, though, they'll have to sign Levi, Floyd, Vino, or the like.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*levi*

IN THEORY, LEVI could come to be a force. As to the Disco theme, oh man, its so very very over for them as a GC threat tyhis year. Big George is 23 minutes back after today and Popo is 5+ back, so, we have again confirmed that in general Big George just cant maintain the heat in the sustained climbs to the level that he can hang with the GC folk. This Tour is far from over but wow, what a cave in for Disco.....


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## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

cyclodawg said:


> Looks like it's Danielson's team next July, unless they sign a Levi or a Landis (or possibly even a guy like Vino). Salvodelli and Popo might have some success in Italy, but they're still a long way away from being threats north of the border. Hincapie just isn't a GC guy physiologically apparently.
> 
> TD won't win the Tour in his first try, but I would expect them to protect him and probably another rider, Ace or Popo, next year. If he podiums in the Vuelta, he might be the undisputed leader.
> 
> If Disco wants a real Tour contender next year, though, they'll have to sign Levi, Floyd, Vino, or the like.


Vino is probably too old. Bet he is wishing he had signed with Discovery last year. Wonder if there was anything to the rumors about that that were swirling around last July?
I'll bet they go after Floyd in a big way.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

ttug said:


> IN THEORY, LEVI could come to be a force. As to the Disco theme, oh man, its so very very over for them as a GC threat tyhis year. Big George is 23 minutes back after today and Popo is 5+ back, so, we have again confirmed that in general Big George just cant maintain the heat in the sustained climbs to the level that he can hang with the GC folk. This Tour is far from over but wow, what a cave in for Disco.....


I was really hoping Hincapie could hang, but I agree...it ain't looking good for him.


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## bonkmiester (Sep 23, 2005)

zero85ZEN said:


> Vino is probably too old. Bet he is wishing he had signed with Discovery last year. Wonder if there was anything to the rumors about that that were swirling around last July?
> I'll bet they go after Floyd in a big way.


Vino has his own team...with a promise that he will be the DS year after next, so I wouldn't count on him (unless the $$$ thing blows up for him)
b0nk


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

zero85ZEN said:


> Vino is probably too old. Bet he is wishing he had signed with Discovery last year. Wonder if there was anything to the rumors about that that were swirling around last July?
> I'll bet they go after Floyd in a big way.


I wouldn't bet on that. Floyd might not race again after his operation.


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## cyclodawg (Jul 1, 2003)

zero85ZEN said:


> Vino is probably too old. Bet he is wishing he had signed with Discovery last year. Wonder if there was anything to the rumors about that that were swirling around last July?
> I'll bet they go after Floyd in a big way.


That depends on whether Lance and Floyd have actually kissed and made up. Remember that Lance still is a part owner. If he doesn't like Floyd, Floyd won't be coming. Both Floyd and Levi need to find teams with domestiques, though. Maybe one goes to Disco, and the other--IF Basso is suspended 2 years--goes to CSC, which always seems very eager to sign American riders. They're arguably the two best riders in the world not implicated in a drug scandal right now. 

Re: Vino, Bruyneel made a comment (presumably after negotiations had fallen thru) last August to the effect of Vino not being a true GC contender in the Tour anyway. I think the implication was that he rides too much like a maverick and doesn't know when to conserve when he needs to conserve, which seems true. You're right, age will be an issue with him by next year too.


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## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

*Floyd will race again*



mohair_chair said:


> I wouldn't bet on that. Floyd might not race again after his operation.


Be sure.


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## Mosovich (Feb 3, 2004)

*No, I'm not trolling...*



dagger said:


> WTF...are you trolling? Anyway. Your analysis is part wrong part correct. Popo and Savoldelli blew before Hincappie today so your wrong on picking them over Hincappie. The part your correct about is that Lance got the guys to go beyond what they are doing now. It appears that Lance played 2 rolls: The Team Engine, and The Cycling Engine. They(the team) don't have the collective instinct to stay and fight together without a leader.



I just think that the guys on the team knew Hincapie couldn't do it, so they didn't "get behind" him like they did Armstrong. If Johan had've chosen lets say Salvo "who has won a grand tour" and proven himself to be capbable, I think the "team" would've done much better because they "know" he can do it. Hincapie has been the classics star for years and hasn't pulled it together yet, "maybe this was his year, but looking back further", so it would make it hard for me to bust my arse for someone not proven.

Do you work harder for a good boss who's confident and is a good leader, or someone who kinda has the "I don't know, what do you think" attitude? Just making a point. I still say they should've picked one leader in May for the tour or earlier than that. They would've been better off for sure.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Yep*



bonkmiester said:


> Vino has his own team...with a promise that he will be the DS year after next, so I wouldn't count on him (unless the $$$ thing blows up for him)
> b0nk


He is playing a role now in negotiating contracts with the riders. Astana will be a very interesting team when Vino gets off the bike. There's alot of great east Euro riders that will be attracted to Astana.


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## bonkmiester (Sep 23, 2005)

Mosovich said:


> I mean come on guys. WTF, Hincapie as the leader? Why didn't they really push Popovich or Salvadeli for the tour instead of going with Hincapie? I like Hincapie as a classics rider, and he did good last year after following wheels and arm chaired a stage win, but to have him as team leader?
> 
> * I really think if they had've said at the beginning of the season, Popo or Savlo, you're the men for the tour, they would've been better prepared.*
> 
> Maybe Lance's killer instict is what made the team what it was.



Yes & No......................... 

if they had a clear leader, yes...but JB was left with a team of domestiques when LA retired...the team had been built to support LA in TdF, anything else was secondary...anyone with any other vision always left - TH, Heras, Floyd

Yes, IL Falco is the exception to that, and he is a GT champ, but NOBODY is gonna do the Giro & win TdF...you can't periodize your training in todays Peleton* and win both...so Salvo would have needed to skip the Giro and peak at TdF...I don't know that he would have been willing to do that...

If JB's early comments about the Team Leader riding to the position still have any relevance, than "Ace" is it by way of his GC after today's stage. It will be interesting to see what JB does with the rest of the tour...

b0nk
(*that's code)


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Even Bruyneel*



ttug said:


> ditto


Is more relaxed this year than the years past. It's probably because Lance had him on the rivet also.


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## bonkmiester (Sep 23, 2005)

dagger said:


> He is playing a role now in negotiating contracts with the riders. Astana will be a very interesting team when Vino gets off the bike. There's alot of great east Euro riders that will be attracted to Astana.


hey dagger,
do you think vino could pull the likes of Menchov, Popo, Karpets and others into a team......contract issues aside.....???

who do you think he can get?

b0nk


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*There's alot*



bonkmiester said:


> hey dagger,
> do you think vino could pull the likes of Menchov, Popo, Karpets and others into a team......contract issues aside.....???
> 
> who do you think he can get?
> ...


Cycling is coming on strong in this "emerging market" and Astana is going to be very well financed. I haven't been keeping up with the names of new talents but there was one Ukrainian, in the Tour of Austria from one of the conti teams that has got alot of potential. Let the dust settle and look out for the signees at the end of 07 Vuelta if Astana gets to race it and definitely there will be a big signee for 2008 season as Vino switches roles.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

dagger said:


> Cycling is coming on strong in this "emerging market" and Astana is going to be very well financed. I haven't been keeping up with the names of new talents but there was one Ukrainian, in the Tour of Austria from one of the conti teams that has got alot of potential. Let the dust settle and look out for the signees at the end of 07 Vuelta if Astana gets to race it and definitely there will be a big signee for 2008 season as Vino switches roles.


I can just see Vino in the team car on the radio constantly yelling at his riders: "Attack! Attack! Attack! ATTACK!"


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## chuckice (Aug 25, 2004)

55x11 said:


> I can just see Vino in the team car on the radio constantly yelling at his riders: "Attack! Attack! Attack! ATTACK!"


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Disco has been 'average'*

and I agree, I guess LA was able to eek that extra bit out of them like watching 'average' riders get extra when wearing the Yellow (think Voekler or Dessel)
Azevedo showed why he is wearing #1 but still isn't in the hunt. Disco hasn't had to do a lick up front and they should be fresher in the hills. So we have 3 explanations
a) they haven't trained as hard
b) they haven't had the same 'prep'
c) they were riding above themselves in service of the king

their performance though will open the door for bringing in a GC Honch. Since nobody stepped up,nobody should feel put out by bringing in a ringer.
It will be Floyd, he and LA have already made up, LA is actually courting the deal and with Phonak ending their contract at the end of this season IMHO this is about a done deal.


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## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

atpjunkie said:


> their performance though will open the door for bringing in a GC Honch. Since nobody stepped up,nobody should feel put out by bringing in a ringer.
> It will be Floyd, he and LA have already made up, LA is actually courting the deal and with Phonak ending their contract at the end of this season IMHO this is about a done deal.


I agree 100%. And I think Floyd will receive Disco help for the remainder of this Tour. It has all the makings of a great (marketing) story: American rider wins Tour on bad hip, has hip replaced and comes back to win Tour again on an American team. Can you say "keeping the TV ratings up"?


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## Cruzer2424 (Feb 8, 2005)

dagger said:


> WTF...are you trolling? Anyway. Your analysis is part wrong part correct. Popo and Savoldelli blew before Hincappie today so your wrong on picking them over Hincappie. The part your correct about is that Lance got the guys to go beyond what they are doing now. It appears that Lance played 2 rolls: The Team Engine, and The Cycling Engine. They(the team) don't have the collective instinct to stay and fight together without a leader.



I agree 200%!

100% goes to the trolling...

the other 100% to the analysis!

:mad2:


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

*floyd to csc a possibility*



cyclodawg said:


> That depends on whether Lance and Floyd have actually kissed and made up. Remember that Lance still is a part owner. If he doesn't like Floyd, Floyd won't be coming. Both Floyd and Levi need to find teams with domestiques, though. Maybe one goes to Disco, and the other--IF Basso is suspended 2 years--goes to CSC, which always seems very eager to sign American riders.


if basso is tainted, i can see floyd goin to csc. he and briske seem to be close compadres, and i dont see lance asking floyd to ride the blue train. i think he still holds a grudge against him for not winning that stage he gave him 2004 and then for jumping ship right after. that was evidenced on baldy last year.

and levi? if he can continue to ride good the rest of the tour, i dont know where he will go. he has bounced around a bit, and he taint gettin any younger.


and yes, i did say "taint." twice.


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## cyclodawg (Jul 1, 2003)

Shocking to see that the last Disco rider to finish today was Chechu Rubiera, 45 minutes back. When your climbing specialist-domestique is riding in the autobus, your team's just not having a great day. 

Bruyneel conceded that Disco's GC hopes are over after the stage, and that they're going for stage wins now. Unless Chechu's sick, he'd be a great candidate for a break on one of the mountain stages next week. 

Still can't believe Hincapie's implosion. The stage profile today looked similar to the profile of the stage he won last year.


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2006)

Wow, pretty sad. Disco needs buy some better talent - I wonder who they'll drop to raise the $$$s.


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

zero85ZEN said:


> I agree 100%. And I think Floyd will receive Disco help for the remainder of this Tour. It has all the makings of a great (marketing) story: American rider wins Tour on bad hip, has hip replaced and comes back to win Tour again on an American team. Can you say "keeping the TV ratings up"?


not that its not possible, but I think that would be a huge gamble for disco. One, he may not be able to come back anywhere. two, I've seen no evidence that he and LA are friendly to the point that landis would wish to work for him. the latest interview on the topic seems to suggest that they've moved on, but I don't think they're pals by any stretch. 3rd, if Landis doesn't win johan and disco look like tools. if landis does win, they look like landis's dancing monkeys. big gamble just to get a potentially hobbled rider to think about riding for your team. 4th, I'm not sure landis needs anything disco has to offer.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*actually it has already been reported*

that LA has marked Floyd as the next American Tour winner and has begun the process of recruitment. From what I read they already mended the fence and I'm sure Floyd wouldn't mind being the powerhouse American on a powerhouse American Team. I agree about Dave,but I see Floyd trying to bring him back as well


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*All talk*



cyclodawg said:


> .
> 
> Bruyneel conceded that Disco's GC hopes are over after the stage, and that they're going for stage wins now. .


Bruyneel has already said that they would be attacking days ago. They haven't so far. They can't even get someone up in a break. WTF are they sitting around for. AT LEAST you get someone in a break...hell... even the supposedly "weaker teams" can do that. BTW, AG2R did a good job with what they had today. It was refreshing to see a team work hard together. You'd think Disco could use their talent with more effect. I am a still a Disco homer so don't take what I am saying the wrong way, I am just ticked off that they are wasting their talent. For 7 years they worked together to get LA to final climb and most of them would be there at the final climb but now they are just sitting back to ride in with the "bus". 

Zabriskie was right. It doesn't take a "brilliant DS". All the DS's have to do is say "Get into the Break" or "Attack" and they can say it all day long, BUT it's up to the riders to be willing or able too.

I look back at the day after the ITT and Hincappie was completely depressed, and psyched out. I thought to myself he's done and he hasn't got any fight in him. George, why are you disappointing me?


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

Since were on the subject of Landis, I see him staying with iShares (if that is indeed the title sponsor next year for Phonak).

Why? I think as a title sponsor in their first year, they will want to make sure they have a proven guy, and will therefore throw more money at him.

And since Landis has had great success in that organization, why not stay and take the money.


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## mikeman (Sep 17, 2005)

Where is the dick that told me in March that George would be on the podium? Guy said he would be here, but that I would not dare show. How right I was then when I said GH would not even make the top 10. Cmon guy show yourself. Warm up the microwave, you got some humble pie to eat!


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*?*



mikeman said:


> Where is the dick that told me in March that George would be on the podium? Guy said he would be here, but that I would not dare show. How right I was then when I said GH would not even make the top 10. Cmon guy show yourself. Warm up the microwave, you got some humble pie to eat!


Just because someone selected GH as a GC you think he's a dick? What's up with the name calling? Get a grip.


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## cyclodawg (Jul 1, 2003)

dagger said:


> Bruyneel has already said that they would be attacking days ago.


I think their intention is to attack and get into breaks. They're just collectively not riding well right now. Popo tried to jump up into an early break today, for example. It had another semi-GC contender, though (Moreau?), and was pulled back quickly. 

It had been a pretty good year for Disco coming into the Tour. Italy didn't go as well as hoped, but they still put their GC guy into the top 5. Second and third in Georgia. First in Austria. Several stage wins. Good showing in the Dauphine. 

Then total collapse at the Tour.


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## ChilliConCarnage (Jun 1, 2006)

cyclodawg said:


> If Disco wants a real Tour contender next year, though, they'll have to sign Levi, Floyd, *Vino*, or the like.


Well, we already know Vino plans to race one more year for Astana, then become their DS. Since he never followed his DS' directions before, what kind of DS will he make?!?!? As far as Levi, he may in fact be saving his position with Gerolsteiner with a strong second half of the Tour.



atpjunkie said:


> ...From what I read they already mended the fence and I'm sure Floyd wouldn't mind being the powerhouse American *on a powerhouse American Team.* I agree about Dave,but I see Floyd trying to bring him back as well


What Powerhouse team are you referring to?

If Floyd does indeed win this year, why wouldn't he stay with Phonak, and help them revamp the roster to include better domestiques? I really don't see him going back to Disco. You know what he needs? A team like the T-Mob. If they don't get Ullrich back, they'll be looking for a GC guy (unless they're happy with Kloden).

As far as Dave Z, until he shows he can make it through the cols, I'm not sure Floyd would want him on his team, even though they're buds.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

mikeman said:


> Where is the dick that told me in March that George would be on the podium? Guy said he would be here, but that I would not dare show. How right I was then when I said GH would not even make the top 10. Cmon guy show yourself. Warm up the microwave, you got some humble pie to eat!


Clearly you are the best prognosticator there ever was. It might be wise to wait until the race is over before commenting on the final top 10.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Cept for George*



cyclodawg said:


> I.
> 
> It had been a pretty good year for Disco coming into the Tour. .


He had that big disappointment at Flanders(shafted by Hoste) and then Roubaix and now his failure to hang on at the TDF..the three events that he was focused on this year haven't panned out. You'd think a great classics rider could pick a stage to win the in TDF and set and win it. Hope he gets something out of this or he's gonna be singing "DID I SHAVE MY LEGS FOR THIS?"


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## KenB (Jul 28, 2004)

zero85ZEN said:


> I agree 100%. And I think Floyd will receive Disco help for the remainder of this Tour. It has all the makings of a great (marketing) story: American rider wins Tour on bad hip, has hip replaced and comes back to win Tour again on an American team. Can you say "keeping the TV ratings up"?


I was thinking the same thing.

I also agree with whoever said that DSC didn't get behind GH because they knew he didn't have a GC chance. Hell, even Armstrong said as much when asked in one of the interviews (well it's more what he didn't say and the incredulous look on his face that spoke volumes).

Floyd is a PA boy like me.... I'd like to see him win it.


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## elviento (Mar 24, 2002)

*Pure PR + commercial reasons*

For the Discovery/Trek operation, it's much better from a PR/Commercial perspective to have an American, who devoted himself to Lance's 7 victories, to win the tour in France. It's just another American hero story. The public would love it. In my office elevator today, the little TV screen already is showing "American Landis in yellow". Americans need an American hero to kick the foreigners' asses. 

Overall, commercially speaking, to have George as a big American hope (even if it ends with failure) is much better than supporting Popovich (even if he wins. The American public would be like "WFT? Who is this Russian guy?"). In a pure cyclists' ideal world, the better rider should be the leader, but in reality this doesn't necessarily work.

I love George, I think he is a great guy. But he is not TDF champion material, I am sorry. 



Mosovich said:


> I mean come on guys. WTF, Hincapie as the leader? Why didn't they really push Popovich or Salvadeli for the tour instead of going with Hincapie? I like Hincapie as a classics rider, and he did good last year after following wheels and arm chaired a stage win, but to have him as team leader?
> 
> I really think if they had've said at the beginning of the season, Popo or Savlo, you're the men for the tour, they would've been better prepared.
> 
> Maybe Lance's killer instict is what made the team what it was.


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## cyclodawg (Jul 1, 2003)

dagger said:


> He had that big disappointment at Flanders(shafted by Hoste) and then Roubaix and now his failure to hang on at the TDF..


He should be disappointed about Roubaix. He probably would have won with Boonen being dropped. But I didn't think he had any complaint in Flanders. Hoste did attack the group, but George, if he had the legs to win, should have followed the attack. Boonen did. Then George complains about Hoste going off without him. Whether Hoste was making the move with George is mind is questionable (he probably was going for the win himself), but, if George had the legs to win, it shouldn't have kept him from that win that day.


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

cyclodawg said:


> He should be disappointed about Roubaix. He probably would have won with Boonen being dropped. But I didn't think he had any complaint in Flanders. Hoste did attack the group, but George, if he had the legs to win, should have followed the attack. Boonen did. Then George complains about Hoste going off without him. Whether Hoste was making the move with George is mind is questionable (he probably was going for the win himself), but, if George had the legs to win, it shouldn't have kept him from that win that day.


 And even if GH had gone with Boonen instead of Hoste the only difference would have been losing by 1 or 2 bike lengths less. Despite everyone being disappointed in Boonen's sprinting in the Tour he's still consistently top 3 or 5, something GH has never been.

Disco's problem is they, like many other teams, don't have the talent to win the Tour. If only they had succeeded in signing Basso. Oh wait......

LA would suck Floyd's dick if it would get them the win next year so I don't think personal issues are a factor at all from Disco's side of things. They already tried to sign him back late last year, so it's really whether Floyd wants to be a part of that impersonal megacorp scene again.


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## fleck (Mar 25, 2005)

Its early, with his lame showing today he might be allowed in a break. You can bet your ass whatever break that is will be kept undercontrol by the GC teams, but they might allow him a stage win...

My pick is still with Cadel. But this year, anyting can happen... I think we all recall disco poping early into the mountains, they recovered... Doubt George will end up near the podium but i wouldn't be suprised to see him in the top 10. The guy knows how to finish a GT strong. That alone says a lot.


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## Mosovich (Feb 3, 2004)

*Hey, you called me a ...*



dagger said:


> Just because someone selected GH as a GC you think he's a dick? What's up with the name calling? Get a grip.


Troller! To me, that's worst than being called a d*&k! BTW, I still stand by the comment, I wasn't trying to be a troller.


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## mikeman (Sep 17, 2005)

No if you saw the discussion (not what I would call it), the guy was a total dick. He insisted that Hincapie would podium and that I would not show my face on the site to take my punishment. I had started a thread stating that I did not understand how anyone could think George had any chance whatsoever to be a GC contender let alone a team. This dick, whose name I do not recall was sure George would podium and that I did not know what I was talking about and that when GH was on top I would be no where to be found. So I am here now being a dick wondering where the big dick is to eat his humble pie. And yeah based on that thread the guy deserves to be called a dick. That I've got a grip and a gripe to match. Thank you very much Dagger. Funny, at the time I told him the only American that had a chance after Basso and Ullrich, was Floyd. Seems I was on the on the mark.


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## Greenday4561 (Aug 13, 2005)

Hincapie would have been the choice for team leader if you had looked at the results from the Dauphine. Hincapie beat Popovych by 36 mins. and was the highest placing rider from Discovery. Hincapie is not the best climber on the team but he is the best all around. He beat Popovych on the stage 7 ITT.


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## coreyb (Aug 4, 2003)

mikeman said:


> No if you saw the discussion (not what I would call it), the guy was a total dick.


Oddly, 1)dagger was involved in the conversation; 2)you were the one being a dick


mikeman said:


> He insisted that Hincapie would podium and that I would not show my face on the site to take my punishment.


Actually, he said IF GH podiumed you wouldn't show your face.


mikeman said:


> This dick, whose name I do not recall was sure George would podium and that I did not know what I was talking about


Your memory does not serve you well


mikeman said:


> So I am here now being a dick


Well....


mikeman said:


> And yeah based on that thread the guy deserves to be called a dick.


You should go reread the thread


mikeman said:


> I've got a grip


not really


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## mikeman (Sep 17, 2005)

coreyb said:


> Oddly, 1)dagger was involved in the conversation; 2)you were the one being a dick
> Actually, he said IF GH podiumed you wouldn't show your face.
> Your memory does not serve you well
> Well....
> ...


No you are wrong. I was the one who started the thread and said GH had not a chance in hell. My original thread questioned the sanity of the cycling press (Liggett etal included) who thought GH was a GC contender. Most of this was probably a result of LA saying positive things about GH and possible team leader. GH is a nice guy, but not a race winner. And Dagger was a dick about it as he took offense to not waving the flag for an American. I said I would be here and here I am. Where are his excuses for GH's performances, which have sucked. The guy is a super domestique. Not a team leader. Dagger should acknowledge his error in judgement as he was the one challenging me. I found the challenge offensive and him to be a dick. End of story. Have a nice day.


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## coreyb (Aug 4, 2003)

mikeman said:


> No you are wrong. I was the one who started the thread and said GH had not a chance in hell.


I never said otherwise. Your reading comprehension skills amaze me.


mikeman said:


> And Dagger was a dick about it as he took offense to not waving the flag for an American.


By saying that your "truth" was conjecture? See comment above re:skills.


mikeman said:


> Where are his excuses for GH's performances


He needn't give any, as he did not defend GH(at least in that thread)


mikeman said:


> Dagger should acknowledge his error in judgement as he was the one challenging me.


um....


mikeman said:


> I found the challenge offensive and him to be a dick. End of story. Have a nice day.


sigh...


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## covenant (May 21, 2002)

The phrase "weirdly virulent" seems just as appropriate now as it did then.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

mikeman said:


> No if you saw the discussion (not what I would call it), the guy was a total dick. He insisted that Hincapie would podium and that I would not show my face on the site to take my punishment. I had started a thread stating that I did not understand how anyone could think George had any chance whatsoever to be a GC contender let alone a team. This dick, whose name I do not recall was sure George would podium and that I did not know what I was talking about and that when GH was on top I would be no where to be found. So I am here now being a dick wondering where the big dick is to eat his humble pie. And yeah based on that thread the guy deserves to be called a dick. That I've got a grip and a gripe to match. Thank you very much Dagger. Funny, at the time I told him the only American that had a chance after Basso and Ullrich, was Floyd. Seems I was on the on the mark.


Ok. One more name-calling rant from you and you'll be banned from this site. Seriously.

francois


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## mikeman (Sep 17, 2005)

francois said:


> Ok. One more name-calling rant from you and you'll be banned from this site. Seriously.
> 
> francois


Get a life. This is not my life, which it seems to be for many of you regulars. It is pretty easy to deduce from reading your (meaning the collective group of regulars) support of the regular crowd would indicate. You all ought to get out more often and I do not mean on your bicycle.

Like I said then, Dagger spent more than one message putting the chip on his shoulder about how I would not be here when Georgie was on the podium. Well, I am here and he is certainly unwilling to admit his error in judgement (both of GH capabilities and my willingness to return to face his music). So ban me, see if I care. You have no idea how much your post made me laugh. Seriously Francois, seriously! I bet you are serious. It must be catching. Like the old saw goes "this is will be a mark on your permanent record"! Oooh! That sounds so serious. Gotta admit, I have had my entertainment for the day right here. SERIOUSLY!


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

mikeman said:


> Like I said then, Dagger spent more than one message putting the chip on his shoulder about how I would not be here when Georgie was on the podium. Well, I am here and he is certainly unwilling to admit his error in judgement (both of GH capabilities and my willingness to return to face his music). So ban me, see if I care. You have no idea how much your post made me laugh. Seriously Francois, seriously! I bet you are serious. It must be catching. Like the old saw goes "this is will be a mark on your permanent record"! Oooh! That sounds so serious. Gotta admit, I have had my entertainment for the day right here. SERIOUSLY!


Relax Mikeman, I just gave you the courtesy of a warning. I'm not really interested in sparring with you. I would rather have you stay on the site and we all go our merry way.

francois


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## rroselli (Jan 2, 2003)

*Disco ha?*

as mentioned in other threads, thought this year and possibly the next are rebuild years. was there an announcement that Discovery was going to continue domination of the Tour? two guys from this squad have already podiumed. give the team some slack


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## Sao (Jul 31, 2003)

Ha ha ha ha ha! to you - 7 straight Tour victories.

Most teams don't last four years, much less winning seven straight. Give me a break. If they'd won 70 years in a row, I assume it'd be the same stupid remark.


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## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

Sao said:


> Most teams don't last four years, much less winning seven straight..


seems as if you're confusing sponsors with teams


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## Vel07 (Oct 28, 2005)

Mikeman says he doesnt care about what people think on this board. But yet he decided to act like a 5 year old and comeback ASAP to point out he was wright and some where wrong. If had a bigtime life outside the 4o plus posts then I wouldve forgotten about that one thread of 100000's. Just ab observation. Mikeman I didnt think you come back but congrats to your fearless prediction.


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