# Who manufactures Scott CR 1 frames?



## andrello

They're made in Taiwan. But where and by whom? Does Scott have their own plant there? If so where is it?


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## cadence90

andrello said:


> They're made in Taiwan. But where and by whom? Does Scott have their own plant there? If so where is it?


Apparently '05 Scott are made by Topeak, a subsidiary of Composite Solutions.
Also, see: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/p...days=0&postorder=asc&highlight=topkey&start=0 
Scott do not have their own facility.


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## divve

Topkey in some plant in China.


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## mp3ison

*Could this be same factory that makes Specialized and Fuji?*

I was talking to a guy at Fuji to find out if they had same bike as a Motobecane model - and he said that a factory called top key made Fuji and Specialized and Cannondale carbon fiber frames. Could this be that factory? Are you sure its in China - this guy said their bikes are from Taiwan


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## orange_julius

*Correction*



cadence90 said:


> Apparently '05 Scott are made by Topeak, a subsidiary of Composite Solutions.
> Also, see: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/p...days=0&postorder=asc&highlight=topkey&start=0
> Scott do not have their own facility.


You probably meant "Topkey", not "Topeak". Topeak is a US-based company which is headquartered near where I live, and while they make great toolkits and bike-related accessories, they do not make bikes ;-).


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## shabbasuraj

This Scott CR1 packing list reads Topeak..


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## orange_julius

*Wow*



shabbasuraj said:


> This Scott CR1 packing list reads Topeak..


Wow, that is surprising! I guess one cannot assume that a company's breadth of business is necessarily reflected by its online presence.

So is Topeak related to Topkey??


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## 2Fast2Furryious

*Lol*

I love how the factory supervisor's name is written in (maybe?) Chinese but the inspector's name is "Dick."


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## OnTheRivet

2Fast2Furryious said:


> I love how the factory supervisor's name is written in (maybe?) Chinese but the inspector's name is "Dick."


Yep, that's the only way to ensure QC when dealing with suppliers in other countries. You NEED one of your guys there 24-7 to keep tabs on things. I've seen what can happen if you leave QC up to the factory personnel.


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## jmoryl

Oooh, I want to be the guy that gets to do the 'rattle test' using the 'wood hammer'. 
While they may have a large presence in the US, I have always been under the impression that Topeak was a Taiwanese company.


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## 2Fast2Furryious

OnTheRivet said:


> Yep, that's the only way to ensure QC when dealing with suppliers in other countries. You NEED one of your guys there 24-7 to keep tabs on things. I've seen what can happen if you leave QC up to the factory personnel.


Well, they said only Nixon could go to China...


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## TDino

Topkey.

the same facility that produces the CR1 makes the Fuji Team/Professional. 

The Cannondale Synapse is also being produced by Topkey.


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## OnTheRivet

2Fast2Furryious said:


> Well, they said only Nixon could go to China...


Nice one.


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## mp3ison

*Specialized also*



TDino said:


> Topkey.
> 
> the same facility that produces the CR1 makes the Fuji Team/Professional.
> 
> The Cannondale Synapse is also being produced by Topkey.



this factory makes Specialized Carbon Frames also


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## Dave Hickey

mp3ison said:


> this factory makes Specialized Carbon Frames also


What proof do you have? I know that Specilized carbon frames are made in Asia but how do you know they are made in this factory? You keep telling everyone about your conversation with a Fuji rep. This "rep" has already been proven wrong by telling you the Moto and Fuji are the same frame....

I really enjoy reading your posts but please provide some facts before telling everyone where a frame is made....


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## mp3ison

*Fuji rep*



Dave Hickey said:


> What proof do you have? I know that Specilized carbon frames are made in Asia but how do you know they are made in this factory? You keep telling everyone about your conversation with a Fuji rep. This "rep" has already been proven wrong by telling you the Moto and Fuji are the same frame....
> 
> I really enjoy reading your posts but please provide some facts before telling everyone where a frame is made....



I did not talk to a rep - I talked to a guy in the Fuji Offices. And maybe he is wrong - on Motobecane frame - I think he must have meant to 2004 Team SL frame or that they were both made by the same frame factory.

But you are correct, I have no 'proof'. However, I find this very interesting. And in a week I have a vacation coming up with not much to do. So I intend to research where and who makes as many as I can find out about. I may even call some of these factories in Taiwan - what the heck - I beat someone there speaks english.

I have already been given the name and number of the Ex President of Raleigh - who is reported to know the factory source on every bike. I'll see if I can get in touch with him and report everything I learn.

Maybe you can help by telling me what you know for sure -- for example I heard Felt and Motobecane and Speciailzed and Bianchi all get frames from some company called Kinsis. Have you heard that?

Also the guy at Fuji claimed that their factory made lots of Colnogos - and even I have heard of Colnogo. The guy said most the Colnogos they made were sold in Japan and Austraila; but some are actually shipped to Italy. 

This is all just beyond what I would of guessed when the guy at Performance told me about it in detail. {I half way did not believe it at first - but the more I look into it - the more sense it makes}

Any more details you can post would really be appreciated. Or any source on where I can learn more.


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## OnTheRivet

ActuallyMerida owns controlling interest in Specialized and much like Giant, Merida is a huge manufacturer of bicycles for other companies as well as having their own line in Europe. I believe Specialized has the bulk of their frame work done by Merida.


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## mp3ison

*Really?*



OnTheRivet said:


> ActuallyMerida owns controlling interest in Specialized and much like Giant, Merida is a huge manufacturer of bicycles for other companies as well as having their own line in Europe. I believe Specialized has the bulk of their frame work done by Merida.



This is even more amazing information. I was told factories purchased frames from special frame shops and that Specialized, Fuji, and Cannondale all got frasmes from this same company that makes Scott frames.

Are you sure this Merida company makes all Specialized frames? And do they make any other brands of bikes - or just Specialized?


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## shabbasuraj

mp3ison said:


> This is even more amazing information. I was told factories purchased frames from special frame shops and that Specialized, Fuji, and Cannondale all got frasmes from this same company that makes Scott frames.
> 
> Are you sure this Merida company makes all Specialized frames? And do they make any other brands of bikes - or just Specialized?



Merida makes some very nice bikes...

They also have there own line that is sold everywhere but North America, as per some contract/agreement with Specialized...(allegedly...)

https://www.merida.com/s0_global/main_control.php?group0=home

Note the passing resemblences of the Specialized Epic frame and the Trans-Mission frame... (note i said simularities, the frames are completely different, in construction material, rear shock usage/choice, and perhaps most importantly pivot placement...(i.e., Specialized has that low/below the axle chainstay pivot indicative of their true FSR design)... Again, put the flamethrowers down, I said PASSING RESSEMBLANCE...(I just find the slight simularities interesting...)

Moreover, early rumours that the 06 Epic will will be carbon based maybe even drawing more from the Merida line...Again this is just speculation...

Now.. if you wish to find some more interesting links of Tawian OEM companies check out this link...

https://www.biketaiwan.com/

And use the search and find some of your favourite road and mountain frames here...

Search out Martec, and they have pics of all sorts of OEM frames, forks, and other CF components...Like everyones favourite Scattante CFR...










Pacific bikes is another larger OEM maker...check out their customer list...
https://neterprise.com.tw/pacific/web/edefault.htm
(I was somewhat surprised to see Banshee on that list when I first read it... o well...)...

I maybe going to Taiwan this winter for business, and will certainly search out for some CF frames, imagine obtaining a nude CF bike from a OEM supplier of Bianchi, Simplon, Scott, Kuota, etc... for wholesale prcing? LOL... (yeah, I wish...)....Anyone here from Taiwan want to give me some clues on where I should start my search...? Or some names of the nicer LBS's???


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## midlife_xs's

this is a link to (mountain) bike shops in Taiwan. I'll guess they also have road bikes. enjoy shopping:

http://www.formosanfattire.com/bikeshops/


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## shabbasuraj

midlife_xs's said:


> this is a link to (mountain) bike shops in Taiwan. I'll guess they also have road bikes. enjoy shopping:
> 
> http://www.formosanfattire.com/bikeshops/



ooo...

thanks for sharing...


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## mp3ison

*FANTASTIC!! thanks for all the info*



shabbasuraj said:


> Merida makes some very nice bikes...
> 
> They also have there own line that is sold everywhere but North America, as per some contract/agreement with Specialized...(allegedly...)
> 
> https://www.merida.com/s0_global/main_control.php?group0=home
> 
> Note the passing resemblences of the Specialized Epic frame and the Trans-Mission frame... (note i said simularities, the frames are completely different, in construction material, rear shock usage/choice, and perhaps most importantly pivot placement...(i.e., Specialized has that low/below the axle chainstay pivot indicative of their true FSR design)... Again, put the flamethrowers down, I said PASSING RESSEMBLANCE...(I just find the slight simularities interesting...)
> 
> Moreover, early rumours that the 06 Epic will will be carbon based maybe even drawing more from the Merida line...Again this is just speculation...
> 
> Now.. if you wish to find some more interesting links of Tawian OEM companies check out this link...
> 
> https://www.biketaiwan.com/
> 
> And use the search and find some of your favourite road and mountain frames here...
> 
> Search out Martec, and they have pics of all sorts of OEM frames, forks, and other CF components...Like everyones favourite Scattante CFR...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pacific bikes is another larger OEM maker...check out their customer list...
> https://neterprise.com.tw/pacific/web/edefault.htm
> (I was somewhat surprised to see Banshee on that list when I first read it... o well...)...
> 
> I maybe going to Taiwan this winter for business, and will certainly search out for some CF frames, imagine obtaining a nude CF bike from a OEM supplier of Bianchi, Simplon, Scott, Kuota, etc... for wholesale prcing? LOL... (yeah, I wish...)....Anyone here from Taiwan want to give me some clues on where I should start my search...? Or some names of the nicer LBS's???



WOW - that is great and lots of helpfull info - this is just so interesting


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## bikeshopguy

*why not get something special*

sounds right to me; cannondale, specialized, scott, fuji all using the same chinese guys to make they frames

why not consider a Trek that is at least different - or maybe an Italian frame


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## Max-Q

Why does it matter where the frame is built? I just bought a Scott CR-1 and I can tell you it is awesome. I have a Colnago C-50 and a Giant TCR carbon. The Scott is every bit as stiff in the BB and the front end as the C-50. And it rides almost as nice as the C-50. It is also lighter than the Colnago. 

The Scott is way stiffer than the Giant especially in the front end. I got an awesome deal on the Scott and I am going to sell my almost new Giant (less than 200 miles) 

I couldn't be happier no matter where the bike was built.


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## bikeshopguy

*I am sure its real nice*



Max-Q said:


> Why does it matter where the frame is built? I just bought a Scott CR-1 and I can tell you it is awesome. I have a Colnago C-50 and a Giant TCR carbon. The Scott is every bit as stiff in the BB and the front end as the C-50. And it rides almost as nice as the C-50. It is also lighter than the Colnago.
> 
> The Scott is way stiffer than the Giant especially in the front end. I got an awesome deal on the Scott and I am going to sell my almost new Giant (less than 200 miles)
> 
> I couldn't be happier no matter where the bike was built.



I am certain your Scott is real nice - as are the Specialized, Motobecane, Fuji, Cannondale, Jamis, Douglas, etc that are all made in the same way by the same people in the same place


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## RiDE

bikeshopguy said:


> sounds right to me; cannondale, specialized, scott, fuji all using the same chinese guys to make they frames
> 
> why not consider a Trek that is at least different - or maybe an Italian frame



Did you change your mind or something?  




bikeshopguy said:


> All kinds of 'Italian' frames are made in Taiwan; shipped via container to Italy; pianted and decaled in Italy and sold as "made In Italy"
> 
> Bianchi is not the only one to do this; most makers do it; it even happens with bars, stems, seatposts and sadles
> 
> customers are buying stuff all the time assuming it is from one place; when in fact it is from somewhere else
> 
> bottom line is ~ do not count on the country of origin sticker meaning much if anything; instead buy what you like or think is a good deal or whatever - without regard to claims by manufacturer (including where it was made)


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## divve

Sora is also made by the same people as Durache, does this mean it's real nice as well?


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## alienator

bikeshopguy said:


> sounds right to me; cannondale, specialized, scott, fuji all using the same chinese guys to make they frames why not consider a Trek that is at least different - or maybe an Italian frame


Well, that's a pretty ignorant statement. Are the Cannondale, Specialized, Scott, and Fuji built the same? With the same techniques? Materials?

Pretty much all you seem to notice is the Chinese part.

Treks are different? They're everywhere. To me, that doesn't say different. Sure they're fine bikes.....but different? Lemme guess: you push Treks in you shop.


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## dnalsaam

Scott does not produce anything themselves. From what I have been told, both Merida and Giant turned down the project to build the CR-1 because they didn't believe it to be strong enough. The frame is therefore being built in mainland China and then shipped to Taiwan for painting, final assembly and shipment.


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## andrello

dnalsaam said:


> The frame is therefore being built in mainland China and then shipped to Taiwan for painting, final assembly and shipment.


What I'd like to know is where the China plant is. In another post I was told that it's in Xiamen. But where?


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## BikeNerd2453

mp3ison said:


> This is even more amazing information. I was told factories purchased frames from special frame shops and that Specialized, Fuji, and Cannondale all got frasmes from this same company that makes Scott frames.
> 
> Are you sure this Merida company makes all Specialized frames? And do they make any other brands of bikes - or just Specialized?


Wow, you have a LOT to learn...
Not trying to be mean or anything, just commenting that the bike industry is probably one of the most confusing, convoluted businesses in the world!
Giant and Merida are the two biggest contract builders in the world, and Giant does almost twice what Merida does. Merida saw the success that Giant is having with it's own brand, and got nervous, hence an investment in Specialzed. I've been told that it's in the ballpark of a 49.xx% share of the company.
There are quite a few other companies doing bikes, Pacific (not related to the Pacific that owns Schwinn/GT/Mongoose), Leader, Topeak, Giant Phoenix, Ideal, literally dozens, if not hundreds, of companies. A lot of these companies don't just make bikes/frames, they'll make rims, shifters, forks, stems, seatposts, etc. They make lots and lots of different things.
As far as Giant refusing to make the Scotts for safety reasons, I highly doubt that. I know that Giant's cabon labs (C-Tech) are at capacity making the Giant bikes, they just don't have any time to make frames for anyone else. Giant is selling every single frame it can churn out, they're working 3 shifts a day just to keep up. I also know that a very major US bike company approached Giant a couple of years ago, asking them to make their new line of carbon bikes, but Giant didn't have the time, they wanted to focus on their own products. That company eventually found a builder in the US, but I'm sure they're not making the margin they were hoping to.
Giant used to make 80%+ of Specialized's bikes, but with Merida's investment, that's dropped a bit, it's still probably about half though. Merida is busy keeping up with their orders, and Giant/Specialized had multi-year contracts as well. Plus factor in tooling, machinery, etc, and it's not just like flipping a switch.
Wow, that was a bit of a rant, sorry. I do have distinct knowledge of this stuff, I'm not just some guy guessing at things. It's all pretty interesting, and the bike industry is probably on of the most inbred/interconnected businesses on the planet...
Fun stuff though...

BN


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## OnTheRivet

BikeNerd2453 said:


> Wow, you have a LOT to learn...
> Not trying to be mean or anything, just commenting that the bike industry is probably one of the most confusing, convoluted businesses in the world!
> Giant and Merida are the two biggest contract builders in the world, and Giant does almost twice what Merida does. Merida saw the success that Giant is having with it's own brand, and got nervous, hence an investment in Specialzed. I've been told that it's in the ballpark of a 49.xx% share of the company.
> There are quite a few other companies doing bikes, Pacific (not related to the Pacific that owns Schwinn/GT/Mongoose), Leader, Topeak, Giant Phoenix, Ideal, literally dozens, if not hundreds, of companies. A lot of these companies don't just make bikes/frames, they'll make rims, shifters, forks, stems, seatposts, etc. They make lots and lots of different things.
> As far as Giant refusing to make the Scotts for safety reasons, I highly doubt that. I know that Giant's cabon labs (C-Tech) are at capacity making the Giant bikes, they just don't have any time to make frames for anyone else. Giant is selling every single frame it can churn out, they're working 3 shifts a day just to keep up. I also know that a very major US bike company approached Giant a couple of years ago, asking them to make their new line of carbon bikes, but Giant didn't have the time, they wanted to focus on their own products. That company eventually found a builder in the US, but I'm sure they're not making the margin they were hoping to.
> Giant used to make 80%+ of Specialized's bikes, but with Merida's investment, that's dropped a bit, it's still probably about half though. Merida is busy keeping up with their orders, and Giant/Specialized had multi-year contracts as well. Plus factor in tooling, machinery, etc, and it's not just like flipping a switch.
> Wow, that was a bit of a rant, sorry. I do have distinct knowledge of this stuff, I'm not just some guy guessing at things. It's all pretty interesting, and the bike industry is probably on of the most inbred/interconnected businesses on the planet...
> Fun stuff though...
> 
> BN


Nice write up. I'm pretty sure A-Pro is doing the Specialized aluminum S-Works stuff.


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## Clevor

I'm considering a 2006 Pinarello Galileo as a second bike, and I hear the frame is made in Asia. Does anyone here have any info on this? Now the Pinarello frame is pretty unique in appearance (they still go with traditional geometry), and the low-end Galileo has the exact same appearance as their high end Dogma-FP, so any factory in Taiwan coming out with this frame would be a dead giveaway.

Apparently this 'sourcing' issue is a sensitive spot with Pinarello, as they have ignored both e-mails I sent them in regards to where the 2006 Galileo - and their generic M.O.ST products - are made. It's already been discovered their 2005 F14:13 carbon frame is being sourced in Taiwan.

Here is a pic of the 2006 Galileo; the fork/seatstays will obviously be coming out of Italy as they are the same (Onda) as on the Dogma:


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## Clevor

bikeshopguy said:


> sounds right to me; cannondale, specialized, scott, fuji all using the same chinese guys to make they frames
> 
> why not consider a Trek that is at least different - or maybe an Italian frame


I went with a TCR Comp 1 for my first bike, as there is good, solid feedback on Giant carbon frames (plus the lifetime warrantee). The Trek I heard has a wooden feel. The Italian frames are outrageously priced; figure around $3500-5000+, and lately, some of the stuff is coming out of Taiwan anyway. The Scattante was reviewed in Bicyling Mag and the testers felt the frame didn't have the road feel and refinement of higher end carbon stuff. Sometimes you get what you pay for.

I subtracted the price of components on my TCR Comp 1 (pretty high-end stuff like Fizik Aliante saddle, FSA Mega-Exo crank, Dura-Ace rear, Mavic Elites), and the price of the full carbon (2.09 lb.) frame came out to around $440 . Giant even threw in some Time ATAC pedals on the complete bike.


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## jm3

*What's intersting is...*



BikeNerd2453 said:


> Wow, you have a LOT to learn...
> Not trying to be mean or anything, just commenting that the bike industry is probably one of the most confusing, convoluted businesses in the world!
> Giant and Merida are the two biggest contract builders in the world, and Giant does almost twice what Merida does. Merida saw the success that Giant is having with it's own brand, and got nervous, hence an investment in Specialzed. I've been told that it's in the ballpark of a 49.xx% share of the company.
> There are quite a few other companies doing bikes, Pacific (not related to the Pacific that owns Schwinn/GT/Mongoose), Leader, Topeak, Giant Phoenix, Ideal, literally dozens, if not hundreds, of companies. A lot of these companies don't just make bikes/frames, they'll make rims, shifters, forks, stems, seatposts, etc. They make lots and lots of different things.
> As far as Giant refusing to make the Scotts for safety reasons, I highly doubt that. I know that Giant's cabon labs (C-Tech) are at capacity making the Giant bikes, they just don't have any time to make frames for anyone else. Giant is selling every single frame it can churn out, they're working 3 shifts a day just to keep up. I also know that a very major US bike company approached Giant a couple of years ago, asking them to make their new line of carbon bikes, but Giant didn't have the time, they wanted to focus on their own products. That company eventually found a builder in the US, but I'm sure they're not making the margin they were hoping to.
> Giant used to make 80%+ of Specialized's bikes, but with Merida's investment, that's dropped a bit, it's still probably about half though. Merida is busy keeping up with their orders, and Giant/Specialized had multi-year contracts as well. Plus factor in tooling, machinery, etc, and it's not just like flipping a switch.
> Wow, that was a bit of a rant, sorry. I do have distinct knowledge of this stuff, I'm not just some guy guessing at things. It's all pretty interesting, and the bike industry is probably on of the most inbred/interconnected businesses on the planet...
> Fun stuff though...
> 
> BN


Scott's and Giant's come boxed identically, right down to the plastic cable ends. Giant owns a lot of the smaller manufacturers - Topeak, I believe, is one of them. If not, they work VERY closely together, but I've been led to believe they're owned by Giant. You're so correct about it being convoluted - I don't even believe half the info I'm given. Actually, I like the inbred comment. So true - unless you're there, and seeing it all for yourself, it would be hard to know who's doing what.

I'm also not sure the new Specialized Tarmac's are made by Merida - I believe they're produced by the same manufacturer as Scott, or by the manufacturer Scott was using last year. The process is pretty much identical as is - surprise, surprise, the way they're packaged.


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## Clevor

The Pinarello guys were wondering where that new F14:13 (or whatever) full CF frame was being sourced. Well at $2700 list for the frame, ain't Italy (it's been confirmed). The clicker was when somebody said he saw a whole bunch of frames (the shape is very distinctive) being final-finished at some plant on the East Coast for some other bike manufacturer .

The $5,000 Kuotos look dead on like a TCR Comp 1, but with turquoise paint. If you look at the 2006 full CF Colnago CF4, it has the latest, aerodynamic, compact frame look. Gawd, it looks just like a TCR Comp 1 except they bowed the seatstays up rather than down, for variety. Heaven knows how much this frame will retail for.


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## Clevor

Here is a $1650 TCR Comp 3:


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## Clevor

Here is an $8500 Colnago CF4 Ferrari:


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## kevlar1973

Martec is the company that makes all of Specializeds' carbon frames. They also make Kutoa, Argon18, Lapierre and a ton of other brands. Topeak makes the Scott CR1, Fuji carbon and a couple of others. Martec also makes all of the Trek carbon forks.


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## shabbasuraj

This is a classic read regarding the bike biz....

Lots of good info here...

http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/features/bikebiz.html


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