# better tires than GP4000s?



## Donn12 (Apr 10, 2012)

i am getting Zipp 303s for my new Dogma. the shop mounted Schwalbe ultremos? I have GP4000s on my other bike and I am pretty sure i want them again. Is anything better than the GPs?


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

About 50% of the tires on the market are better then anything Conti makes in regards to a road tire and most of those are even cheaper!

Conti is cult tire, people just babble along with the crowd and buy them because Dr Dan has them so we all have to have them. Funny thing is, most pros do not ride Conti's!

All you have to do is go to Performance Bike, or Nashbar, or Price Point and buy the best tire according to reviews for the largest percentage off. I won't pay more then $35 for a tire, in fact I haven't paid more then $24 since I figured out Conti road tires sucked, and all these tires normally sold for $45 or more.

Here are few examples of great tires with high reviews and huge discounts:
Vittoria Rubino Pro Slick Road Tire - Road Bike Tires
Hutchinson Fusion 3 Special Edition Road Tire - Road Bike Tires
Michelin Pro3 Race Road Tire - Road Bike Tires
Maxxis Courchevel 3C Tire at Price Point

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not bagging on Conti's as a whole, I think their road tires are way over priced and in general are not that great; but I've used their MTB tires and have had great success and they don't cost much. 

If Conti is the only tire you will buy then go to Ripple, they have the best prices for Conti tires; see: Continental TYRES ROAD/TRI/TRACK FOLDING


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

froze said:


> About 50% of the tires on the market are better then anything Conti makes in regards to a road tire and most of those are even cheaper!
> 
> Conti is cult tire, people just babble along with the crowd and buy them because Dr Dan has them so we all have to have them. Funny thing is, most pros do not ride Conti's!
> 
> ...


Ribble.


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## r1lee (Jul 22, 2012)

Is this clincher or tubular? I tend to agree that less people ride conti tubulars, but tony Martin did ride conti's on his tt bike with clinchers. And most clincher riders also ride conti.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

froze said:


> About 50% of the tires on the market are better then anything Conti makes in regards to a road tire and most of those are even cheaper!
> 
> Conti is cult tire, people just babble along with the crowd and buy them because Dr Dan has them so we all have to have them. Funny thing is, most pros do not ride Conti's!
> 
> ...


froze you need to preface your entire post with the statement "in my opinion." We all know that you don't like Conti tires but many people do. I would like to see you offer objective evidence for your claims. Your statements make it seem like these are well-established and agreed on facts. They are not. 

BTW the fact that some people (and maybe you) have had sidewall failures is not objective evidence. There are a lot of Conti tires in use and therefore there will be a higher number of problems reported. Many people use Conti tires and don't have problems, like the ride, like the grip, etc.


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## shoegazer (Nov 2, 2007)

r1lee said:


> ... but tony Martin did ride conti's on his tt bike with clinchers...


 I recall Martin premiering the new Specialized clinchers during the last Tour and he flatted during both TTs.
Ive had really good fortune with the GPs but I prefer Vittoria and FMB


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## biker jk (Dec 5, 2012)

I have raced on Schwalbe Ultremo ZXs and they are fantastic. Grip is excellent, they are light (195 grams) and have low rolling resistance. Downside is that they will be chewed up pretty quickly on rough roads and also don't have much puncture protection (few light tyres do).


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

I say give the Ultremo's a chance. I've got about 1000 miles on a set I recently installed and love them. Wear them out and then switch to the Conti's if you don't like the Schwalbe's. I also agree with everything biker jk said, but so far I've only got a few small cuts. Definitely better puncture protection than the Pro 3's I rode for years.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

Kerry Irons said:


> froze you need to preface your entire post with the statement "in my opinion." We all know that you don't like Conti tires but many people do. I would like to see you offer objective evidence for your claims. Your statements make it seem like these are well-established and agreed on facts. They are not.
> 
> BTW the fact that some people (and maybe you) have had sidewall failures is not objective evidence. There are a lot of Conti tires in use and therefore there will be a higher number of problems reported. Many people use Conti tires and don't have problems, like the ride, like the grip, etc.


I agree and if one was to consider the results from tests, Tour has been giving the Conti 4000S, GP 4S and GP A/F better scores than the Michelin P4, Hutchinson Fusion or Vittoria Rubino Pro.
The Schwalbe Ultremo ZX is the next tire I would like to try out.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Better? Depends what you're looking for. There's certainly better if you are prone to side-wall cuts. On the other hand if you want a race tire that also has slow to wear rubber....perhaps there isn't better.
Better how?


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## Donn12 (Apr 10, 2012)

I need clincher tires.
For me the best tire would be very fast with good flat protection. I haven't had sidewall punctures. I would guess any flats would be from punctures not low air pressure. I dont care how fast they wear out. Tires are not that expensive....especially when you compare them to how much the wheels cost! I also dont want to have problems in bad weather and my GP4000s seemed to be fine in all these areas. the ultremos are rated pretty well as well.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

Everyone has different riding conditions. I ride in Northeast Texas, the roads vary from Roubaix-like broken asphalt farm roads to cheesegrater-like chip and seal to smooth asphalt. I ride 25mm GP4000's and have had one sidewall cut, but it was due to an innertube blowing out at a seam making the tire instantly flat at 25mph on a chip and seal road and by the time I had the bike stopped, I had damaged the tire. A dollar bill got me home. Any tire would have been damaged in that situation. 

When I lived in Sardinia, I rode a set of 23mm ultra gatorskins to the cords with no flats. When I finally replaced the tires, the rear tire wadded up in a ball when I dropped it on the ground. I would have put the front on the rear but it wasn't far behind the rear tire in wear.


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## UpHillCrawler (Jul 14, 2004)

Kerry Irons said:


> froze you need to preface your entire post with the statement "in my opinion." We all know that you don't like Conti tires but many people do. I would like to see you offer objective evidence for your claims. Your statements make it seem like these are well-established and agreed on facts. They are not.
> 
> BTW the fact that some people (and maybe you) have had sidewall failures is not objective evidence. There are a lot of Conti tires in use and therefore there will be a higher number of problems reported. Many people use Conti tires and don't have problems, like the ride, like the grip, etc.


- Everyone's individual opinion is basically subjective (even the people that love GP4000's) and I think most people understand that. 

- That being said, and in spite of the many fans of the tire, a quick google search on GP4000's sidewall problems delivers well over 10,000 links. I'm not sure there's another bicycle tire on the market with this amount of reported issues. 

- They are one of the most expensive tires on the market and the higher chance of problems makes this a challenge. You either pay the much higher price at your LBS (in which they will handle any potential warranty claims) or you order from a place like PBK (which can easily save you 50% off the purchase price but you have to ship your tire back to the UK in case you have a problem). Continental's US distributor (Highway Two) does not deal with the consumer only the place you purchased them from. 

- Like I've said before (IMO) if you like them and they're working for you they seem to be great. If you're one of the many people that have had issues with them, they are an expensive hassle and there are many other options on the market...


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## giosblue (Aug 2, 2009)

I must admit, I'm not a big fan of Conti tyres.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

froze said:


> Conti is cult tire


That's pretty hilarious. They are the most popular tire... which usually isn't what people mean by a "cult". 

The GP4000s I got a few years ago were incredibly durable with low rolling resistance. The new ones seem to have more issues.


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## Bullvine (Sep 9, 2009)

For me I roll with Veloflex Masters except for in winter when the roads get horrible ill switch to a heaver thicker tire. You simply can't go wrong with Veloflex.


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## r1lee (Jul 22, 2012)

shoegazer said:


> I recall Martin premiering the new Specialized clinchers during the last Tour and he flatted during both TTs.
> Ive had really good fortune with the GPs but I prefer Vittoria and FMB


Yes that was last tour, the tour before that he was on conti clinchers.
Worlds 2011: Martin on clinchers? | Pavé

He still uses clinchers on his to bike and probably switched over to specialized due to sponsorship or the fact they released a tire that had better rolling resistance.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

I'm a longtime user of gp4000 tubulars for training and racing. I've had one flat in the last 15,000 miles on them, when I hit a roofing nail.


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

froze said:


> About 50% of the tires on the market are better then anything Conti makes in regards to a road tire and most of those are even cheaper!
> 
> Conti is cult tire, people just babble along with the crowd and buy them because Dr Dan has them so we all have to have them. Funny thing is, most pros do not ride Conti's!
> 
> ...


Have been riding Vittoria (= crap), Michelin Krylion, and Michelin Endurane Pro4 last year. The Michelin tyres and especially the new Pro4 Endurance would do the trick but it only measures 60 mm from bead-to-bead which is simply to small on rough surfaces. The Michelins in size 25mm measure 72 mm from bead-to-bead but won't fit into my rear part of the frame.

This year I am trying something else: Continental Grand Prix in size 700x24mm. The tyre measures 65 mm from bead to-bead and even allows me to use it in combination with Crud Racers mud guards during winter. 

I muyst say I am positively surprised: it pulls and sucks potholes really very, very well! 5 mm can make a hell lot of a difference. Sure on smooth tarmac it is not as comfortable as the Michelin Pro4 Endurace due to a seemingly harder rubber compound. No flats so far after 1400 km. It took almost 800 km for the "centre line" on the rear tyre until it disappeared. I then swapped the front for the rear to increase tyre life. Hope they will last at least 4000 to 5000 km.

I got mine from bike-discount and paid £30 for the tyre set and shipping (it was marked down and on sale).


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

I'm testing out a pair of 4000s', and so far they're pretty nice. Until now my usual tire had been the Vittoria Rubino Pro III, which is still very good. I got them from Ribble for $23 each, and they ride well with good flat protection.


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## Dave Cutter (Sep 26, 2012)

I had read a review for the Continental Grand Prix 4000 S tire Black Chili Compound tires. It called them the _worlds best bicycle tire_.... wish I could find a link. Since I wanted new tires for the up coming 2013 season I decided to jump on them. 

But then.... I kept reading and also talked to some guys at the LBS. The opinions were so varied... as to be make them all completely useless. I almost bought myself a new set of the same tires I rode on the last two season. Like... _better to deal with the devil you know_. 

I went with a compromise tire Continental Ultra Sports. Not because I think they are a great tire. But just to try something different than what I had. If I don't try different stuff.... I will never find anything better than what I have.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

It's very subjective. I'm not a fan of GP4000's either as I found the cornering confidence (key term as I didn't necessitate this as "grip) fade faster than others. But they were awesome when new. 

I guess on record my best experience is with Hutchinson. The Fusion 2 was pretty solid but for some reason I'm always too strapped on funds to get the Fusion 3. Been turning to the Equinox since it's dirt cheap and at least instills lasting confidence and feel. Also has given me the least trouble of any tire. It's just a straight up slick and really gets better with wear.

Vittoria has been in my rotation quite a bit too, but that's mostly because I've gotten free tires or have availability circumstances with the Equinox. I would suggest the Rubino in that line but with wear it's less predictable than the Hutchinsons.

Michelin's PR line is great but wears fast. Vredestien's Fortezza is a weird one. Sufrace always felt slippery to the touch but never rode like it. Very reliable too. Maybe the only catch is that the casing was hard "spec'd" to be pumped up to like 140psi. Going "soft" like I ideally would with other tires didn't feel all that great, actually started feeling slippery on the ride.


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

I found the GP4000s to be a very good tire if slightly prone to flatting and a bit of a pain to mount. The Gatorskins are more resistant to flatting, cheaper and seem to ride just as well. I just can't justify the (US) price of these tires. I can afford the ~$60, but it seems unnecessary. 

Personally, I've come to the conclusion that I simply can't tell the difference between one decent quality 23MM tire and another. The only things I really care about are a tire having good wet and cornering traction, good durability and above all excellent puncture resistance. I've started using $24 Nashbar Duro Pros and honestly don't miss the Contis.


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## DonDenver (May 30, 2007)

Hiro11 said:


> Personally, I've come to the conclusion that I simply can't tell the difference between.... I've started using $24 Nashbar Duro Pros and honestly don't miss the Contis.


Good 4 you Hiro. If you have those results and the confidence not to worry about the tire under you...that's all the battle. And at that price you could mount fresh rubber per the price of conti4Ks by a 2 or 3:1


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

giosblue said:


> I must admit, I'm not a big fan of Conti tyres.


FWIW I'm not either. Bought some a few years ago, rode them 50 miles or so, took them off and sold them cheap.

The "ride" just didn't compare to my Michelins. Why have a great bike and let the tires ruin the feel. 

That is "my opinion".


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

It depends on the situation.
I didn't like GP4000s on my road bike because they rode harsh and stiff.
Could be because I weigh 140lbs.
On my tandem they are the best tire I have ever used.
I prefer Michelin PR3 on my single because they are smooth and supple.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

dcgriz said:


> I agree and if one was to consider the results from tests, Tour has been giving the Conti 4000S, GP 4S and GP A/F better scores than the Michelin P4, Hutchinson Fusion or Vittoria Rubino Pro.
> The Schwalbe Ultremo ZX is the next tire I would like to try out.


And the Tour mag test favored tires that advertised with them, my test I give below has no advertiser thus no axe to grind to make money.

If you look at this much more accurate and real test result you'll discover their rolling resistance is only just slightly above average! Yet I hear comments all the time here on this forum about Conti tires being super fast...bunch of mantra BS. See this: Roller Data Then click on the 03/20/2010 AFM tire testing rev9.pdf

The fastest Conti tested was the Grand Prix Supersonic; the next Conti doesn't appear until page two about 4th of the way down. Now this person that does these test can't test every single tire on the market but the interesting thing about those tests is that they do show Conti not to be all that great...not that there all that bad which I even said in my post, but there only about average when compared to others. That test only test rolling resistance and not puncture resistance.

I stand by what I said, Conti tires are a BS tire, their over priced and offer nothing to make them better then all others.


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## scottma (May 18, 2012)

froze said:


> And the Tour mag test favored tires that advertised with them, my test I give below has no advertiser thus no axe to grind to make money.


I read Tour QTR They do some of the most involved and detailed testing that I have ever seen in any bike publication. Cant say that I ever recall seeing a Conti ad in the magazine (although I admittedly dont pay that much attention to ads). Can you point me to the source of information that shows this, or which publication has the advertisements?
Thanks


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## Ab24029 (Feb 20, 2006)

I agree with the above posters that there are many tires better that Continental road tires. 
I stopped using Conti many years ago because of frequent flats and harsh ride above 100 psi. GP400 seems like the best tire Continental offers(I used the All-Seasons, Sport, GP3000, 4000, GT/Force and many others). I found Vittoria (Rubino and above), Vredestein, Michelin PRO 2,3, Swabble and Hutchinson Fusion all better riding with less flats that Continental tires. 
I also have Panaracer Pacella TG on one of my bikes. Is is on on par with Continental tires I had only way...way cheaper.


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## Ruby13 (Aug 11, 2011)

I put he G4000s on my Synapse after recommendation from my LBS. The original Schwalbe Lugano rear kept flatting when I hit 1000 miles and where pretty worn down. I had a sidewall cut on the front tire that I fixed at 1000 miles and presently have 3500 miles on this set. I purchased a backup set assuming they would not last this long and bought for $80 delivered from Pro Bike in the UK. It basically was two for the price of one.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

froze said:


> I stand by what I said, Conti tires are a BS tire, their over priced and offer nothing to make them better then all others.


The difficulty some of us have with your statements is not that you dont like Contis but rather the absolute terms you tend to use.

There are certain things one could extract from tests etc but a lot more depend on the specific rider's subjective preferences, ability, weight and cycling style.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

froze said:


> The fastest Conti tested was the Grand Prix Supersonic; the next Conti doesn't appear until page two about 4th of the way down.


Good that you noted Al's testing, but you failed at interpretation. The great majority of the tires he's tested are fragile racing tires. So a durable and long-lasting tire with great puncture resistance being near the top of the 2nd page is very good.


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## Rickard Laufer (Jan 1, 2013)

How about trying GP Attack and GP Force?
Continental Bicycle -GP Attack & GP Force


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Kind of an odd thread--as popular as they are, are you saying people are buying contis out of ignorance? I find the gp4000 tubulars to be grippy and confidence-inspiring in the corners--and to have very good puncture resistance. They may be expensive, they may have slightly higher rolling resistance than a few other road tires, and I wish the tread lasted longer, but the cornering counts for a lot.

I've used the Vittoria corsa cx evo a lot, too, and had much worse experience with puncture resistance. This is backed up by the same experience from three or four of my buddies. The Vittorias also don't have the grip in wet the Contis do, and in some quarters are considered notoriously slick. 

No tires are perfect, but to dismiss Contis as a "BS tire" is just silly.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

scottma said:


> I read Tour QTR They do some of the most involved and detailed testing that I have ever seen in any bike publication. Cant say that I ever recall seeing a Conti ad in the magazine (although I admittedly dont pay that much attention to ads). Can you point me to the source of information that shows this, or which publication has the advertisements?
> Thanks


Really? how so? They only do a very small selection and it's not done anywhere near as scientifically as the site I gave. Problem is with some of you is that you refuse to believe the facts that come out against something your hypnotized into believing is the best. 

And reread my posts. I said repeatedly that there are better tires for less money then the Conti and that is true, even another poster above has agreed. Have you ever notice on a busy street your on and you come up to two lanes turning and people will line up behind the first car and lot of times the other turn lane only has a few cars? Or have you ever notices at theme parks most people go to their right and work their way around the park from there? Oddities like that with the human brain is the reason people believe in this case that one tire, Conti, is the only tire because most people ride them so they must be good, they all just follow the leader without thinking. I remember a person like that....hmmmm, oh yeah, Hitler, just to name one, they all got in behind him in the turn lane and left the other lane almost vacant.

There are a lot of better tires out there for less that people are ignoring...but they do have that right.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

OK, you just invoked Hitler in an argument about bicycle tire performance. You're on timeout.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Fireform said:


> OK, you just invoked Hitler in an argument about bicycle tire performance. You're on timeout.


HAHAHAHAHAH. So if I would have said Genghis Khan, or perhaps Julius Caesar that would have been better? I only use Hitler because after all, he ruled over Germany and that's where Conti tires come from!!! Not sure if you caught the symbolism with all of that originally.


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## Donn12 (Apr 10, 2012)

So anyway, whats the best tire I can put on my bike?! Fast , reliable, not prone to flats. In my mind tires are cheap compared t everything else so if they are 60 vs 30 and I get a season out of them thats fine.


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## Lampchop (Nov 29, 2012)

I have the stock schwalbe lugano in 23 that came stock with the fulcrum's. They are OK tires so far but can get squirmy under hard turning


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

Donn12 said:


> So anyway, whats the best tire I can put on my bike?! Fast , reliable, not prone to flats. In my mind tires are cheap compared t everything else so if they are 60 vs 30 and I get a season out of them thats fine.


IMO, there is not such a thing as the best tire for everything. Tires that excel on low weight, low rolling resistance are not necessarily high on puncture resistance. You need to pick what works best for your intended use and riding style. 
Candidates on the top clincher end include:
Conti GP 4000S, Attack/Force, 4 season
Michelin Pro 3 or 4
Vittoria EVO CX
Verdestein Fortezza Tricomp
Schwalbe Ultremo ZX

If I had to choose with puncture resistance as my priority then the GP 4 Season would be my tire. Comfort would go to the Vittoria. Speed would be arguably the rider's choice between the 4000s, Pro and Fortezza. The ZX is the new kid in the block and is the next in my list to try.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Donn12 said:


> So anyway, whats the best tire I can put on my bike?! Fast , reliable, not prone to flats. In my mind tires are cheap compared t everything else so if they are 60 vs 30 and I get a season out of them thats fine.


I gave the answer if you believe in tests, here it is again: Roller Data then click on 2010 test. The second tire on the list Specialized Mondo Open Tubular which has been replaced with an even better S-Works Turbo tire, it has decent flat protection with low rolling resistance. Problem is you can't get both a ultralight weight tire with superb flat protection, something has to be compromised, like price, flat protection, or speed. But you can get a decent priced tires like I also mentioned earlier on sale for about half the cost normally that will hold up better, cost less, and be just as fast. Read the reviews on any tire you are considering on the internet and on some of the places that sell the tires, there are a lot of decent tires out there but figure out what you want most out of a tire, less rolling resistance but more flats, or better flat protection but slightly slower tire, or cost; but you can't get a nearly bullet proof tire that rolls fast. 

If I wanted a nearly bullet proof tire due to goathead thorns I use to encounter living in the Mojave desert of California that made mince meat out of Conti gp4000's, 4 seasons and Gatorskins then look into the new Specialized Roubaix Armadillo or for even more armor the Specialized Armadillo All Condition. But neither of those are cheap, and the All Condition is heavy but they wear like iron and flats are extremely rare, I only got one flat in 15,000 miles of using them. 

An alternative would to be to buy a tire on sale and then add a Panaracer FlatAway liner, this liner is about 2/3rds lighter then a Mr Tuffy and way stronger. Then you can figure out whether to use it in both tires or just the rear...the rear tire is the most susceptible tire for flats. So it's possible to end up with a tire nearly as flat resistant as a Armadillo All Condition but lighter by using a liner.


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## scottma (May 18, 2012)

Donn12, you live in the same area that I do. Roads out here are pretty decent. You are looking at clinchers, not tubulars right? You already ran the 4000 S, so you can judge for yourself how you liked them. My last set I ran for ~ 6000 mi with 1 flat in that time. Others that I ride with that run them also have had good success. I also ride with a guy who uses the Michelin Pro 3 and really likes them. He is moving to the Pro 4 when they wear out. I would have no issue running them. You are building a Dogma 2 with Campy EPS, so the cost of the tires are not a concern I assume. One thing I will add that I'm not sure has been mentined is I do like the ride of 25C tires over the 23C. A little lower pressure makes for a nicer ride.

Good Luck


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## nhluhr (Sep 9, 2010)

froze said:


> Conti is cult tire, *people just babble along with the crowd* and buy them because Dr Dan has them so we all have to have them.


OK got it - don't trust the crowd.


froze said:


> All you have to do is go to Performance Bike, or Nashbar, or Price Point and *buy the best tire according to reviews* for the largest percentage off.


OK got it - trust the crowd.

Wait... something seems amiss.


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## Donn12 (Apr 10, 2012)

The shop put 
ULtremo ZXs on the rims. They are highly rated so I will report back once I get some miles on them


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

I gave up on Contis years ago. They were nice tires, but they wore really fast. After a number of years of avoiding them, I bought a pair of Conti 4000s and was pleasantly surprised by them. They ride nice, corner well, wear long and I rarely get flats on them. They run wide for a 23 mm tire. Over the years, I've decided that I like Michelin PR3 (PR4 next) the best. I'll probably keep Contis on one of my bikes. They work well for commuting. If I were the OP, I'd ride the Contis until they wear out and then try Michelin PR4. 

Oh, and Froze, there's no need to get mystery tires from Performance when you can get name brand ones for half of what Performance charges at Ribble. I don't pay more than $35/tire either. And plus, have you ever looked at the clients and employees at your average Performance? Not the kind of people that I would put much faith in reviews. I'm not saying that serious cyclists don't shop there, but I am saying that your average person in there is no a serious cyclist. I don't think the average employee there even rides a bike. There should be a law against that.


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

pmf said:


> Oh, and Froze, there's no need to get mystery tires from Performance when you can get name brand ones for half of what Performance charges at Ribble. I don't pay more than $35/tire either. And plus, have you ever looked at the clients and employees at your average Performance? Not the kind of people that I would put much faith in reviews. I'm not saying that serious cyclists don't shop there, but I am saying that your average person in there is no a serious cyclist. I don't think the average employee there even rides a bike. There should be a law against that.


Not sure I agree. Anecdotally, my local PB guys are more friendly and know more about bikes than most of the LBS employees.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

pmf said:


> I gave up on Contis years ago. They were nice tires, but they wore really fast. After a number of years of avoiding them, I bought a pair of Conti 4000s and was pleasantly surprised by them. They ride nice, corner well, wear long and I rarely get flats on them. They run wide for a 23 mm tire. Over the years, I've decided that I like Michelin PR3 (PR4 next) the best. I'll probably keep Contis on one of my bikes. They work well for commuting. If I were the OP, I'd ride the Contis until they wear out and then try Michelin PR4.
> 
> Oh, and Froze, there's no need to get mystery tires from Performance when you can get name brand ones for half of what Performance charges at Ribble. I don't pay more than $35/tire either. And plus, have you ever looked at the clients and employees at your average Performance? Not the kind of people that I would put much faith in reviews. I'm not saying that serious cyclists don't shop there, but I am saying that your average person in there is no a serious cyclist. I don't think the average employee there even rides a bike. There should be a law against that.


Mystery tires? Performance sells brand name tires including Conti's! The only mystery tires they sell is their house brand which I would not buy but many have. And the best prices for Conti is at Ripple which I did mention earlier, but their other tires they carry which they have a quite a few of the same brands Performance carries are about the same price. It's just in America Conti has price controls in effect and it's difficult to find deep cuts in prices like other brands here in America. The same is true with Campy components, Ripple prices on Campy are really good.

There are other places that offer reviews as well, Amazon, various on line bicycle magazine type of places, you can get a good idea of how a tire will be. Using these reviews is a lot better method then we use to have...no reviews to see because there was no internet like there is today so we had to trial and error on our own!!! Or take the word of an LBS which of course they had to sell product.


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## Pedro S (Mar 28, 2011)

These Grand Prix GT look better to me at least on paper due to their higher TPI sidewall which is hopefully a little more resistant to cuts. However I have yet to find any reviews.


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## nhluhr (Sep 9, 2010)

Pedro S said:


> These Grand Prix GT look better to me at least on paper due to their higher TPI sidewall which is hopefully a little more resistant to cuts. However I have yet to find any reviews.


I think the real difference between the GP GT and the GP4k is that the GT has the plies of the casing wrapped full length from bead to bead whereas in the 4K, the overlapping plies end just past the tread rubber, so instead of 2 plies at the sidewalls and 3 plies under the tread, you get 3 plies all the way. Also, of course the PolyX breaker vs the Vectran one . Should be a tougher tire than the 4k.

You can kind of see it in the pics of both:


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## Pedro S (Mar 28, 2011)

I may try them once warmer weather gets here in another month or so. A couple online sites offer them at decent prices, $30-35. I like my GP4000s, but they are too expensive for the sidewall to cut so easily. I too am looking for less expensive options.


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## steve1616 (Feb 7, 2013)

I have put 2500 miles on the GP4000S rear tire before replacment and had one flat from sharp glass. These tire compounds were designed for MotoGP bike racing to start with. This tire has saved me more then once. I have tried other tires in regards to downhill speed and no other tire even comes close to this one. After wearing out the rear tire I went to 25mm rear as it drives through the corner better like a motorcyle tire would.


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## scottma (May 18, 2012)

froze said:


> Mystery tires? Performance sells brand name tires including Conti's! The only mystery tires they sell is their house brand which I would not buy but many have. And the best prices for Conti is at Ripple which I did mention earlier, but their other tires they carry which they have a quite a few of the same brands Performance carries are about the same price. It's just in America Conti has price controls in effect and it's difficult to find deep cuts in prices like other brands here in America. The same is true with Campy components, Ripple prices on Campy are really good.
> 
> There are other places that offer reviews as well, Amazon, various on line bicycle magazine type of places, you can get a good idea of how a tire will be. Using these reviews is a lot better method then we use to have...no reviews to see because there was no internet like there is today so we had to trial and error on our own!!! Or take the word of an LBS which of course they had to sell product.


Ri*BB*le Ri*BB*le Ri*BB*le
Why do you insist on calling them Ripple? (just curious)

Tiremaniacs Webstore Planet Cyclery are a couple of US sites that also have good prices.


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## martinot (Aug 14, 2009)

GP GT will not be better than 4000S - it's not even on paper
I just finish solid test rides on Ultremos on Maui:
2012 Ultremo DDs with HD SpeedGuard (used them for some 1,000 miles in Seattle prior to Maui and liked them a lot). I did Road to Hana on them and they had the same racy but not very fast nor very supple feel but survived the road crap very well. Few nicks and cuts but no flats. I bet the new 2013 HD V-Guard (V stands for Vectran) will be tougher and therefore overall better yet. Great tire for winter training and rough roads.
2013 Ultremo ZX with HD V-Guard. 
- West Maui Loop with a mix of crappy and great roads. 90/95 psi front/rear - very good in dry and wet. supple and grippy.
- Haleakala with primarily clean roads but some potholes and sand in upper sections. 95/100 psi. Super. Comfy on rollers and ascents and inspiring conf on bomber descent.
- Fast rec ride on primarily flats. many wet sections and some with lots of crap on roads. 100/105 psi. Higher pressure made the tire alive and super fast. We averaged here 24 mph over 60 miles. It most likely will be faster at additional 5 to 10 psi but roads should be smooth for that. Excellent grip, nice suppleness and flex, fast accelerations, great grip in all conditions.
Ultremos are easy to mount. I was on latex tubes. Is it a perfect tire? - for sure not but it's darn good one. V-Guard does the trick as Ultremo ZX had no signs of cuts etc despite riding over lots of crap. Thumbs up here.
Season is building up so soon I will switch to Veloflex Corsas 23 and will also want to do some rides on new Vittos Opens CX III. No talk on tubies here so this is it.
Cheers


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

scottma said:


> Ri*BB*le Ri*BB*le Ri*BB*le
> Why do you insist on calling them Ripple? (just curious)
> 
> Tiremaniacs Webstore Planet Cyclery are a couple of US sites that also have good prices.


HAHAHAH, sorry, for some reason I have a mental block and keep typing it as Ripple!! Maybe it's due to that cheap wine I drink?!!!!


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## scottma (May 18, 2012)

LOL. Maybe it's time to upgrade to the good stuff!


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## Donn12 (Apr 10, 2012)

I've done a couple of 40 mile rides on these tires and they feel great. Im also on a new bike with new wheels so I cant really compare to the GP4000s. I am running higher PSI (100) on the Ultremos and based on the couple of rides so far I would get another set of these tires when its time to replace.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Every time I try conti's I regret it. 

The Michelin pro 4 endurance are better tires at a cheaper price IMO. Last longer, more supple ride. The Pro 4Service corp ride better than the endurance but don't last as long. IMO

Len


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## tidi (Jan 11, 2008)

Panaracer type d....


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

tidi said:


> Panaracer type d....


It's amazing how much Panaracer tires are overlooked, Panaracer doesn't advertise like the others so a lot of riders don't really know they exist, or know very little about them. But they do get high reviews from those that do discover them. Quite frankly I was a bit hesitant to try the Pasela TG's but once I started reading all the positive reviews and now after using them their a fantastic tire for the money. And their Roly Polly and Ruffy Tuffy tires get high reviews as well.

Panaracer also has a type A tire, but I'm not sure what the difference is between the A and the D other then the D might have a bit more flat protection?


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