# Anyone do Bike + Weight Training?



## jmcg333 (Apr 17, 2015)

I've been both lifting and biking haphazardly for a few years now and have gotten if not quite over-trained then definitely overreached/burnt out. I got a trial subscription to TrainerRoad just for giggles and have caught on to their amazing Ask a Cycling Coach podcast. I'm realizing that I've just burning myself out with no clear plan or training structure. I usually lift 3x week and bike 4x per week - around 80-100 mi.

After listening to the podcast I'm ready to sort of start over. I meet with a phys therapist in a couple weeks and am going to get a good fit first off. Anyone else lift and bike alot with a good structured plan? Did you have to go to a coach or put it together yourself?


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Yes. My lifting is really an adapted physical therapy routine that was developed to help me back from an injury. Basically, it's core centric with extra emphasis on glutes and legs. During my race season it's maintenance to make sure muscles stay engaged and balanced. During the off season and base I try to build...


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## jmcg333 (Apr 17, 2015)

Interesting. I'm wondering if I wait to put together a more thorough plan once summer is over - wish I would have thought to do this three or four months ago. Not sure how to do base training / establish base aerobic fitness - with summer rides fast approaching.


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## BelgianHammer (Apr 10, 2012)

Mine is same as woodys.

18 years been lifting regulary, 4 days a week, fairly intense 75-90 min sessions, every week of every year.

If I don't, the pain from the accident I had back in 2000 becomes overwhelming and I am off the bike.

Too much ligament and muscle damage, so other body parts have to step up their game, and cannot do so without intensive weight training.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

I do light weights with reps of 15 to 20 till with enough weight to make that exhastion and other upper body work like bar dips and planks 2x / week with a recover spin from intervals the previous day on Wednesdays and Fridays, 2 sets each day - takes about 10 to 15 minutes.


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## mtrac (Sep 23, 2013)

I'm on the bike typically six days a week and in the gym every other day. I use machines and do body weight exercises; no free weights.

I'm there about an hour, or as time permits, and since I've usually just pedaled from work I'm tired and hungry. Would like to get a personal trainer one of these years.


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## marathonrunner (Sep 7, 2016)

I haven't been to the gym or lifted a weight in years. The only non bike exercises I do are running, xc skiing (from November to April) and stabilizing exercises with bands and stretches to prevent overuse injuries. 

I only have 8 hours/week to dedicate to cycling. If I had more time, or wasn't doing well in races, I'd consider other stuff but I honestly think lifting is a very, very small percentage of your fitness pie, unless you're a pure sprinter. Which I'm very much not.


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## colombo357 (Jun 19, 2010)

jmcg333 said:


> I've been both lifting and biking haphazardly for a few years now and have gotten if not quite over-trained then definitely overreached/burnt out. I got a trial subscription to TrainerRoad just for giggles and have caught on to their amazing Ask a Cycling Coach podcast. I'm realizing that I've just burning myself out with no clear plan or training structure. I usually lift 3x week and bike 4x per week - around 80-100 mi.
> 
> After listening to the podcast I'm ready to sort of start over. I meet with a phys therapist in a couple weeks and am going to get a good fit first off. Anyone else lift and bike alot with a good structured plan? Did you have to go to a coach or put it together yourself?


Good call on TrainerRoad. 

I'm doing their low volume plans (3X week) + 1 day lifting with a personal trainer + 1 Saturday outdoor ride (3 hours). TrainerRoad syncs with Strava, so I can track total TSS as a sum of my indoor and outdoor rides. 

So I'm working out 5 days a week and that's enough for me. My two rest days are either sitting on the couch or active recovery by taking out the e-bike. The e-bike prevents me from turning a recovery ride into a hammerfest.

The guys on the TrainerRoad podcast often warn riders new to structured training to go with the low volume plans before diving in head first. If your FTP is assessed correctly, even the Sweet Spot Base plan will hurt as early as week 2.


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

No. I want to ride as fast as possible on the bike, so I ride the bike.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

jmcg333 said:


> I usually lift 3x week and bike 4x per week - around 80-100 mi.


That's a sure way to burn out even if you are in your 20's. 
There are 2 ways to approach it, lift weights to enhance cycling or cycle to enhance cardio aspect for fat trimming (to get better definition of muscles). If former, you want to do light lifting just for core strength maintenance but not to build up, at lease not during the biking season.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

pedalbiker said:


> No. I want to ride as fast as possible on the bike, so I ride the bike.


Weight training is the fastest way to build strength/size. You can also ride bike to increase strength/size specifically for going fast but it will take longer than weight training.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

bvber said:


> Weight training is the fastest way to build strength/size. You can also ride bike to increase strength/size specifically for going fast but it will take longer than weight training.


Very true. Lifting builds strength, but due to the low numbers of repetition, increases the size of fast twitch muscles. These are the anaerobic fibers that won't do a damn thing for rider longer than about 15 seconds. Power requires aerobic endurance, slow twitch fibers, the cardio system. That takes longer than pumping up fast twitch muscles.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

Fredrico said:


> Very true. Lifting builds strength, but due to the low numbers of repetition, increases the size of fast twitch muscles. These are the anaerobic fibers that won't do a damn thing for rider longer than about 15 seconds. Power requires aerobic endurance, slow twitch fibers, the cardio system. That takes longer than pumping up fast twitch muscles.


Also very true but there are various weight training methods for building fast or slow twitch muscles.


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

bvber said:


> Weight training is the fastest way to build strength/size. You can also ride bike to increase strength/size specifically for going fast but it will take longer than weight training.


Since when does strength/size = faster riding? 

It's an aerobic sport. Size is about the last thing I want, and I have plenty of the strength needed to turn the pedals over. Generating high power for long durations, though, that's the issue. Gym doesn't help that in the least.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

pedalbiker said:


> Since when does strength/size = faster riding?
> 
> It's an aerobic sport. Size is about the last thing I want, and I have plenty of the strength needed to turn the pedals over. Generating high power for long durations, though, that's the issue. Gym doesn't help that in the least.


Yep, high power riding is aerobic effort, slow twitch fibers, just below anaerobic threshold, which can be elevated through riding in a competitive group. 

Eddy recommended low weights and lots of repetitions, which bvber may be referring to. Eddy also characterized weight lifting as something riders could do over the winter to pull the body back together after wearing it down, particularly upper body, during the season. 

I tried his program one winter and came up the following Spring feeling 10 years younger. But still had to adjust to the more constant resistance of the bike, improve recovery times, and hydrate and digest carbs on the fly. By that time, the lifting sessions were over. My "form" pedaling fast and working the cardio system was also more precise and controlled, which would save energy or squeeze a little more power out of the effort.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

pedalbiker said:


> Since when does strength/size = faster riding?


Ever since the biophysics existed.



> It's an aerobic sport.


Aerobics would be part of it.


> Size is about the last thing I want, and I have plenty of the strength needed to turn the pedals over.


You've reached the optimum physique for road bike race? Congratulations.


> Generating high power for long durations, though, that's the issue. Gym doesn't help that in the least.


Just wondering, you've tried weight training and found out that it didn't help at all?


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

Fredrico said:


> Eddy recommended low weights and lots of repetitions, which bvber may be referring to. Eddy also characterized weight lifting as something riders could do over the winter to pull the body back together after wearing it down, particularly upper body, during the season.


Yes, if OP is using weight training to enhance his cycling performance.


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

bvber said:


> Ever since the biophysics existed.
> 
> 
> Aerobics would be part of it.
> ...


I don't think you understand physics or physiology very well. 

No, it wouldn't. 

Yes, pretty much.

Yes, over many years, from when I was a cat 4 all the way to a cat 1. I'm a much better cat 1 not doing it. Far more power across the board, from 1s to 3 hour. Shocker that it all came from focusing on that power on the bike!


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

Fredrico said:


> Eddy recommended low weights and lots of repetitions, which bvber may be referring to. Eddy also characterized weight lifting as something riders could do over the winter to pull the body back together after wearing it down, particularly upper body, during the season.


Even if you wanted to do weights, doing that is essentially the opposite of modern physiology recommendations for endurance athletes.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

pedalbiker said:


> Yes, pretty much.


Pretty much but not completely? In that case, you have room for improvement.



> Yes, over many years, from when I was a cat 4 all the way to a cat 1. I'm a much better cat 1 not doing it. Far more power across the board, from 1s to 3 hour. Shocker that it all came from focusing on that power on the bike!


Maybe you should send a message to these racers to let go of the gym idea.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

pedalbiker said:


> Even if you wanted to do weights, doing that is essentially the opposite of modern physiology recommendations for endurance athletes.


I don't think you understand physics or physiology very well. Perhaps some research on weight training and its benefit in endurance sports like cycling is in order.


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

bvber said:


> Pretty much but not completely? In that case, you have room for improvement.
> 
> 
> Maybe you should send a message to these racers to let go of the gym idea.


So your extremely informed opinion is that I bulk up because that will help me ride faster? Really, what are you going on about?

Ah, yes, "some" pros do a month or two of weight training during the offseason because it helps their riding so much. 

But the question has to be asked, why don't they do it year round?


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

bvber said:


> I don't think you understand physics or physiology very well. Perhaps some research on weight training and its benefit in endurance sports like cycling is in order.


I've done plenty of research. You don't want to add mass, you want to add strength. You don't add strength with high rep, low weight training. You do it with low rep, high weight training. 

And that comes at a cost, which is why virtually no one does it year-round. 

There's also that little issue of specificity...

But hey, you claim it makes you faster? And you claim you want to be bigger because that makes you faster? How does it make you faster?

I've said how it didn't make me faster, and going fast is the only reason I ride a bike, and why I ride ten thousand miles a year and travel another few thousand miles each year to do pro crits, so it's obviously very important to me. 

So regal me with actual data, or at least a useful anecdote concerning your power increases. I mean, multiple winters in the weight room netted me a 1250 watt sprint, 700 watt one minute power and 320 watt threshold. Specific, dialed-in training on the bike netted me a 1500 watt sprint, 735 watts at 1 minute, and 350 watt threshold. And I lost weight, not put it on. Because that's sorta important, too. 

That's my actual data from my actual experience doing both, not just something I read on the internet and now feel compelled to argue about. 

And you?


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

pedalbiker said:


> I've done plenty of research. You don't want to add mass, you want to add strength. You don't add strength with high rep, low weight training. You do it with low rep, high weight training.
> 
> And that comes at a cost, which is why virtually no one does it year-round.
> 
> ...





pedalbiker said:


> So your extremely informed opinion is that I bulk up because that will help me ride faster?


The first quote and your use of the term "bulk up" in this context tells me that you need to better acquaint yourself with the world of weight training which leads to my suspicion below.


> Ah, yes, "some" pros do a month or two of weight training during the offseason because it helps their riding so much.
> 
> But the question has to be asked, why don't they do it year round?


Better question to ask yourself is, why don't you give gym another try, this time do it right or hire the right trainer?


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

That's my actual data from my actual experience doing both, not just something I read on the internet and now feel compelled to argue about. 

And you?


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

pedalbiker said:


> That's my actual data from my actual experience doing both,


Sure but you may not have done the weight training right or didn't hire the right trainer. Weight training is easy to mess up by either over doing or under doing with the former being more common and more detrimental. The actual training takes multiple trial & error to get it right. Nobody gets it right at first shot.


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## steelbikerider (Feb 7, 2005)

a problem with serious weight training during the racing season is recovery time. Intense leg work means 24-48 hours of recovery before doing interval work, Racing on the weekend means Tuesday weights at the earliest. If you have a weekday race, you will not have time to do weights and an interval workout during the week. Some riders do well with an intense weight program during the off season but when race season starts there are not enough days in the week to do heavy weights and Zone4/5 intervals along with an endurance ride or 2. A maintenence program of mostly upper body once/week and 3/4 20 minute sessions of core/stretching is all that many riders can manage and even that can be difficult.

On the other hand, some of my best race seasons came after a winter of 2-3 heavy weight sessions/week, 3-4 90 minutes rides on a mid 60 inch fix gear and a 3 hour road ride on the weekend. Tapering off to a once per week maintenance session by the end of January, I was flying from March - May. 

As I get older(59 now), I try to lift more but more than 2 45- 60 minute weight sessions per week affects my riding time more than I want it to so I save the 2nd day for weeks with bad weather. 

There is a big difference in lifting for overall fitness, for race training and even race training for cat 1 races. Pedalbiker has years of racing under his belt and simply would not get the same benefits of weight training as a recreational cyclist or even a cat 4/5 rider.


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

bvber said:


> Sure but you may not have done the weight training right or didn't hire the right trainer. Weight training is easy to mess up by either over doing or under doing with the former being more common and more detrimental. The actual training takes multiple trial & error to get it right. Nobody gets it right at first shot.


Without getting into my history of having a personal usacycling certified coach from age 17, who was also a personal trainer as his actual job, I'll just restate that I have a lot of experience with high-level training and racing, and have tried a great deal many things in the pursuit of going as fast as possible. 

But clearly you haven't, so this is not really a debate worth pursuing.


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

steelbikerider said:


> a problem with serious weight training during the racing season is recovery time. Intense leg work means 24-48 hours of recovery before doing interval work, Racing on the weekend means Tuesday weights at the earliest. If you have a weekday race, you will not have time to do weights and an interval workout during the week. Some riders do well with an intense weight program during the off season but when race season starts there are not enough days in the week to do heavy weights and Zone4/5 intervals along with an endurance ride or 2. A maintenence program of mostly upper body once/week and 3/4 20 minute sessions of core/stretching is all that many riders can manage and even that can be difficult.
> 
> 
> There is a big difference in lifting for overall fitness, for race training and even race training for cat 1 races. Pedalbiker has years of racing under his belt and simply would not get the same benefits of weight training as a recreational cyclist or even a cat 4/5 rider.


Well put.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

pedalbiker said:


> Without getting into my history of having a personal usacycling certified coach from age 17, who was also a personal trainer as his actual job, I'll just restate that I have a lot of experience with high-level *training* and racing, and have tried a great deal *many things* in the pursuit of going as fast as possible.


Not weight training though. At least not until you tried it last time when you recorded the power output, right?


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

pedalbiker said:


> Well put.


But not the part quoted below?


steelbikerider said:


> On the other hand, some of my best race seasons came after a winter of 2-3 heavy weight sessions/week, 3-4 90 minutes rides on a mid 60 inch fix gear and a 3 hour road ride on the weekend. Tapering off to a once per week maintenance session by the end of January, I was flying from March - May.


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## steelbikerider (Feb 7, 2005)

I have coached enough riders and raced long enough to know that every rider responds differently to training inputs. A smart rider or coach will pay enough attention to current research, race results, rider metrics and individual rider needs to work out the best training plan that matches the riders goals, capabilites and capacity to train.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

steelbikerider said:


> I have coached enough riders and raced long enough to know that every rider responds differently to training inputs. A smart rider or coach will pay enough attention to current research, race results, rider metrics and individual rider needs to work out the best training plan that matches the riders goals, capabilites and capacity to train.


Well put. 
Weight training has to be custom tailored to each individual in order to be successful. Often those who think it's an automatic benefit, give it a try and then abandon it because it didn't do what they expected, not realizing how complex it is.


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## aussiebullet (Sep 26, 2005)

So why bother with it all if its so complex and hard to execute and often fails to give the results expected and it doesn't even contribute to CTL? But it's well established that riding your bike more does?
It's a no-brainer IMO.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

aussiebullet said:


> So why bother with it all if its so complex and hard to execute and often fails to give the results expected and it doesn't even contribute to CTL? But it's well established that riding your bike more does?
> It's a no-brainer IMO.


I think steelbikerider and pedalbiker are saying the requirements of high intensity racing require *specialization* to a much higher degree than riders cycling as a part of an overall fitness program. By the time a rider is trained enough to go with the Cat 1's, he's specialized the legs for power, the lungs, cardio and digestive system to fuel that power, and shaving off weight that doesn't contribute to the task. 

An example: Lance entered the TDF bulked up from swimming and running, and he didn't do so well. He came back the next year lighter up top, no doubt wiser in apportioning energy, and kicked butt.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

aussiebullet said:


> So why bother with it all if its so complex and hard to execute and often fails to give the results expected and it doesn't even contribute to CTL?


There are many things that are so complex and hard to execute right for the beginners. 



> But it's well established that riding your bike more does?
> It's a no-brainer IMO.


You are free to do what you want to do with your body. You may want to ask those pro racers in the video I posted or others you can get in touch with, why they incorporate gym workout in their program if it's well established that riding the bike is all that's needed.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

Fredrico said:


> An example: Lance entered the TDF bulked up from swimming and running, and he didn't do so well. He came back the next year lighter up top, no doubt wiser in apportioning energy, and kicked butt.


Did you leave out anything...? :idea:


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

bvber said:


> Did you leave out anything...? :idea:


Probably. He did look leaner and meaner than his first year, though.


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## aussiebullet (Sep 26, 2005)

Are you saying that to become a professional top level endurance cyclist and reach your genetic potential one must spend time in the gym?
If so other than a few youtube vids do you have any references or data you like to share with us to back up those claims.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

aussiebullet said:


> Are you saying that to become a professional top level endurance cyclist and reach your genetic potential one must spend time in the gym?
> If so other than a few youtube vids do you have any references or data you like to share with us to back up those claims.


I'm not saying that but, I think this is where the research and focus is currently targeting:

*“Combining endurance training with explosive and heavy strength training will improve endurance performance due to the delayed activation of less efficient type II fibers, improved neuromuscular efficiency, conversion of fast-twitch type IIX fibers into more fatigue-resistance type IIA fibers” Ronnestad BR, Mujika I Scand J Med Sci Sports. 2014 Aug 24 (4) 603-612*

Personally, my peak power, whether 5s, 30s, 1min, 30min etc...has not improved with strength/power resistance training added into my fall prep. What I've noticed is that after an extended period of time riding or racing I'm able to get closer to my best 5s, 30s, 1min etc...power number than prior to adding in weights. More importantly, I have been intrigued with what I can only describe as having a few more bullets late in the game.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

i used to do both. weight training was my primary form of training. i would a 30 mile ride once a week for cardio conditioning along with running. its difficult to do both and do both really well. after 20 years of weight training i now primarily bike and run. i just decided i'd rather be outside and couldn't find a good training partner for spotting. also doing both and doing both was too demanding on my body, so now i mainly do cardio running and cycling several days a week.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

Thank you *woodys737* for saving my typing.




aussiebullet said:


> Are you saying that to become a professional top level endurance cyclist and reach your genetic potential one must spend time in the gym?
> If so other than a few youtube vids do you have any references or data you like to share with us to back up those claims.


There are tons of info on this you can gather by doing little bit of search.


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## aussiebullet (Sep 26, 2005)

So you are saying the answer to my question is no? time in the gym is not needed to reach one's genetic potential.
There are much more specific ways to increase speed and endurance on the bike without ever going near a gym by raising FTP and or CTL.
There are thousands of papers and endless studies stating this and how to do it, the training requirements, levels, zones and hours needed are well established and have been for some time now by Auther Lydiard, Andrew Coggan, Hunter Allen, RST etc.

No one is saying you can't lift weights and still see improvements, but by the same token saying one "NEEDS" to spend time in the gym to improve on the bike is unfounded with "ZERO" evidence to back up that claim.

So again, if you have data to dispute this then by all means please share with us Oh wise one! Because so far other than your opinion you have given us diddly squat! Just a youtube video where all one can conclude is pro cyclists like to go dancing, or cross country skiing, rehab in the gym or just plain ride there bike in the off season, nothing new about that.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

aussiebullet said:


> So you are saying the answer to my question is no? time in the gym is not needed to reach one's genetic potential.
> There are much more specific ways to increase speed and endurance on the bike without ever going near a gym by raising FTP and or CTL.
> There are thousands of papers and endless studies stating this and how to do it, the training requirements, levels, zones and hours needed are well established and have been for some time now by Auther Lydiard, Andrew Coggan, Hunter Allen, RST etc.
> 
> ...


What is it that you are looking to do? Are you having a problem increasing your cycling performance and looking for tips or are you just trolling?


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## carlosflanders (Nov 23, 2008)

In early 2017 sam Bennett was asked what changes he made to his training. He said the only major change he made was giving up weight training. 

He has multiple world tour victories in the past 15 months and none before.


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## aussiebullet (Sep 26, 2005)

Earlier you posted that weight training was the "fastest" way to build size and strength specifically for going fast on a bike. I'm asking you how you came to that conclusion?
Do you have any data or evidence to back up that claim? since I like to follow evidenced based training methods. 
When others have stated they saw no improvement with weight training you simply told them they were doing it wrong but gave no insight as to how the right way is or how it has been proven that it is the "fastest" way to build speed on a bike, so please enlighten us or is it a secret? or just your opinion?


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

aussiebullet said:


> Earlier you posted that weight training was the "fastest" way to build size and strength specifically for going fast on a bike.


Quote please.



> When others have stated they saw no improvement with weight training


Who are those others that you are referring to?



> you simply told them they were doing it wrong


Who are they? How many and the forum names?



> but gave no insight as to how the right way is or how it has been proven that it is the "fastest" way to build speed on a bike,


Please quote my words about the fastest way to build speed on a bike.


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## aussiebullet (Sep 26, 2005)

Really? you can't just go back and read your own posts?


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

aussiebullet said:


> Really? you can't just go back and read your own posts?


I sure can. The question was to see if you really did. Looks like you just realized that you didn't.


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## aussiebullet (Sep 26, 2005)

So after all that we got nowhere, just as I expected.

Back the original poster for the record I'm currently lifting 4-5 days wk and as usual my performance on the bike is suffering, actually it's in the gutter, but since I'm not racing right now I'm fine with that.

Once I'm ready to start racing again lifting will have to take a back seat while I build up my FTP and CTL.
I've tried doing both many times and it's impossible to be great at both, Either pick one or the other and be great at it, or do both and accept that you'll be ok to average at both.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

aussiebullet said:


> So after all that *we* got nowhere, just as I expected.


No, you got nowhere because you didn't know where you were to begin with.


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## steelbikerider (Feb 7, 2005)

this guy believes in core and weight work
https://twitter.com/petosagan/status/1003681797765509120/video/1

article here
Peter Sagan shows how he boosts his power with gym work | Cyclingnews.com

Googling shows many more impressive efforts


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Chris Froome interviewed about his training routine back in 2015:



> I train on the bike and I get into the gym five times a week, mainly to work on my core stability, leg strength, and some back work. A lot of squats and lunges, no heavy weights – more about building strength than muscle. We also weave some yoga postures into our stretching.


MH Interview: Chris Froome - Men's Health

As for me, I lift weight 2x/week. I mainly work on my back, meaning I'll do deadlift 2x/wk. Deadlift will work the core/abs too. Back strength is pretty damn important to me as I age, too many older people with back issues and I don't want to be a part of that statistics. I have tried to do some heavy squats in the past years, and I did notice that while that does improve my peak power, but it does nothing to improve threshold power. Furthermore, too much squating (2x/wk) make my legs feel fatigue a lot, to the point that it was affecting the quality of my intervals on the bike. So now I have stopped doing squat. But I still deadlift though, and deadlift still involve the legs, but it's acceptable to me.

I think lifting some weight in general is a good thing to do, especially as you get over 40 years old, where maintaining muscle mass can in fact improve quality of life and sex drive. Too many pro cyclists with constant low body mass and low testosterone level, ugh no thanks.


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

steelbikerider said:


> this guy believes in core and weight work
> https://twitter.com/petosagan/status/1003681797765509120/video/1
> 
> article here
> ...


I pulled my groin just by watching that.


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