# Is Campy 11 "finicky"?



## the_gormandizer (May 12, 2006)

Someone described 11 speed to me as "finicky". I guess he meant it was difficult to set up right and keep it shifting well without adjustment. Is this true, or at least any more true than 10 speed Campy, Shimano or SRAM?


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## mriddle (Nov 16, 2005)

*Not for me.*

I have had 9 and 10 speed, now I have two bikes w/11.
IMO, the 11 speed is the easiest to set up and requires virtually no adjusting once set correctly.
I have not even adjusted cable tension on either bike since initial stretching period.
Seems most issues are involving complicated cable routing on some frames.
Others complain about rattling shifters and noise in certain areas of the cassette.
I've had none of this, the 11 speed stuff is really good. The shifters feel different than previous campy ergos, some don't like them. You need to get familiar with the lighter shifting action.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2009)

I think it needs to wear in a bit at the beginning, but after a week of riding its great. As easy to build up as the previous 10 speed was other than the chain and with the proper tool that's pretty simple. I'll soon have a year on Chorus 11 in all kinds of weather and I have no complaints.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

the_gormandizer said:


> Someone described 11 speed to me as "finicky". I guess he meant it was difficult to set up right and keep it shifting well without adjustment.


Nope, not finicky at all. For me, I adjusted the derailleurs once on the stand, and was set. Shifts perfectly every time.


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## volubilis (Jan 2, 2009)

My experience has been the same as the other responders so far. Adjusted for initial cable stretch and excellent thereafter. Record 11 throughout, since early spring. In my opinion superior to Record 9 and 10. V.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

kytyree said:


> I think it needs to wear in a bit at the beginning, but after a week of riding its great. As easy to build up as the previous 10 speed was other than the chain and with the proper tool that's pretty simple. I'll soon have a year on Chorus 11 in all kinds of weather and I have no complaints.


I agree. After a week of riding I made few adjustments to the shifting. Probably about the same as the Dura Ace 7800 I had before--perhaps a little less.

The biggest issue is getting used to not overshifting when going hard (sprinting). It takes a while to get used to the system when coming from DA. 

Don't misread this. I will not be going back to Dura Ace--even though I thought it was very good. Campy 11 is as good as it gets and if you're a climber, you'll not be going back to 10 speed once you've been on it.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*no worse...*



the_gormandizer said:


> Someone described 11 speed to me as "finicky". I guess he meant it was difficult to set up right and keep it shifting well without adjustment. Is this true, or at least any more true than 10 speed Campy, Shimano or SRAM?



I've got two bikes with 11 speed and neither has frame mounted cable adjusters. After the initial seating of the cables, I rarely have to make any adjustment.


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## cotocalicyclist (Feb 18, 2006)

It seemed a little finicky to set up at the beginning, but part of that was getting comfortable with Campy. As Kytyree and others have said, it also take a couple rides for the cables to get well lubricated and settle into the housing and for the rest of it to "wear in".

After a week my 11S stuff shifted perfectly and was quieter than DA 7800.

My only nitpicks are that, for my relatively small hands, I find the arc of the paddle on down-shifts to be a bit long and I have to stretch my thumbs quite a bit on the upshifts when in the drops. I also get a bit of chain rub on the 53 ring when cross-chaining in the 39X11.....I know I know, I shouldn't cross-chain, but it still happens occasionally.


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

I have some 4200 km on my 11 speed Campy setup with 49000 m of ascent and I can say it is flawless if you use proper chain lubricant and keep it clean.
If not properly lubed the chain is louder than the chains I have used in the past. With poor lubricants (less than 15W grade oil) it sounds like chatter. Also if the chain and chainrings get dirty it tends to produce clicking sounds. I'm not used to clean my drivetrain that often, but with Campy 11sp I must completely degrease and clean it about every 700 km, and that halves the cleaning interval for me compared to past.

My only real objection is about the feeling that right finger shift lever gives, which is too soft for my taste and clicks are not distinctive enough. Thumb lever feels just fine.


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## mattmor (Feb 3, 2006)

SwiftSolo said:


> Campy 11 is as good as it gets and if you're a climber, you'll not be going back to 10 speed once you've been on it.


Swift,

Sorry for the possibly stupid question, but could you explain the above statement.

Thanks.

-matt


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*info...*



mattmor said:
 

> Swift,
> 
> Sorry for the possibly stupid question, but could you explain the above statement.
> 
> ...


One advantage for climbers is Campy now offers a 12-27, that does not have the large jumps between the last three cogs, like 10 speed Shimano or SRAM. The 12-27 ends with 21-23-25-27 instead of 21-24-27. Soon, there will be a 12-29 that ends with 21-23-26-29.

If you're a compact user, the 11-25 has a 16T cog that 10 speed is missing.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

mattmor said:


> Swift,
> 
> Sorry for the possibly stupid question, but could you explain the above statement.
> 
> ...


I think c-40 covered this but the big advantage for climbing is the 2 tooth jumps (21-23-25-27) instead of shimanos 3 tooth jumps (21-24-27). On long climbs you can always find the right gear without the large cadence jumps of 10 speed.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

mattmor said:


> Swift,
> Sorry for the possibly stupid question, but could you explain the above statement.
> Thanks.
> -matt


I often describe the 11sp cassettes to my riding buddies as, "standard" 10speed 12-25, but with a "bonus" cog of 11 or 27.

I'm presently using a 50/34 crank with the 11/25 cassette ... provides very wide range gearing, yet with relatively small gear jumps.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

*regarding "finicky"*

unlike everyone else, I have found the 11sp to be slighly more fussy in its setup, and requiring somewhat more finesse in subsequent cable tension and limit screw adjustments.

BUT, and I think this is a significant confounding factor,
-- 11sp Campy is on a bike with 405mm long chain stays. 
-- 10sp Shimano (105 series) is on bike with 415-420mm stays.

Thus, my shimano 10sp bike generally has a straighter chain path.

Regardless, this mainly affects initial setup -- once setup, the Campy 11sp is stable.


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## DNM (Feb 27, 2008)

*For me it is*



the_gormandizer said:


> Someone described 11 speed to me as "finicky". I guess he meant it was difficult to set up right and keep it shifting well without adjustment. Is this true, or at least any more true than 10 speed Campy, Shimano or SRAM?


I have 3 bikes now. 

CAAD 5 with nearly all '05 vintage Record, 39/50 and 13/29. The over-shift in the back is a big pain. Not consistent. If you shift fast, no problem, but multi-cog shifts to larger cogs and slow, easy shifts results in the chain wanting to go up the next cog, then fall back when the paddle is released. If adjusted out (lengthen cable), then noisy, as the chain is wanting to shift off the cog to a smaller one.

The 11 speed on a S-Works Roubaix does the same garbage. I do not understand why Campy persists on the over-shift when the cassettes do such a good job of moving the chain up.

The third bike is an old Nishiki set up as a commuter. -05 vintage Record and Chorus except medium cage Daytona RD. Triple front and 12-25 10 speed rear. This bike shifts perfectly every time. My observations are that the derailleur hanger is about 1.25" long, well outside Campy's length spec. This allows the parallelogram to be be more horizontal and therefore the jockey wheel farther forward, so that there are about 3 links between cogs and jockey wheel. I think this allows the over-shift to not push the chain into the next cog. One other observation... The CAAD 5 shifted great when set up with bar end shifters, which have no over-travel.

Back to the 11 speed. I do think it is improving with time, and it may wear in (but where... chain, cogs, jockey wheels?). Nevertheless, I have also ordered a long version of the derailleur hanger from Specialized (the made it for the 28 cog Shimano). I will install that, and then get back here with a report on if it helps or not. I'm thinking that the over-travel works well on spec hangers when used with 11-25 cogsets, but not so well with the wider range stuff.

To me it is a shame that my lowest tech, oldest bike shifts best under multiple conditions.

Oh, and I played with a Prince with SR at a shop, and it too had the over-travel such that the chain wanted to ride up the next cog.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*thoughts...*

I hate to be critical, but the more you post on the subject the more it seems that you just aren't all that adept at setting up a bike. I've got three 11 speed bikes and none of those problems. There is not a hint of what you are calling overshifting. IMO, that is simply a case of having too much tension on the shift cable. 

I've had many Campy 10 speed groups installed on 7 different frames, dating back to 2000 and never had those problems either.


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2009)

I'll have to agree, one of the things I've really liked about my 11 speed group is it maintained what liked about my 10 speed group while adding a cog and more comfortable hoods.

The only differences I've noted are paying a little more attention to your cable routing so you don't have too much friction and needing a thinner shop rag to floss the cassette when I clean it.


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## DNM (Feb 27, 2008)

*Yep*



C-40 said:


> I hate to be critical, but the more you post on the subject the more it seems that you just aren't all that adept at setting up a bike. I've got three 11 speed bikes and none of those problems. There is not a hint of what you are calling overshifting. IMO, that is simply a case of having too much tension on the shift cable.
> 
> I've had many Campy 10 speed groups installed on 7 different frames, dating back to 2000 and never had those problems either.


I knew I would open myself to that comment. Nevertheless, when I have my set-up running like I like it to, I will give my report.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*RD alignment....*

Check your RD hanger alignment. It's easy to assume that a new or undamaged bike has a properly aligned hanger, but I would never assume that. Buying my own hanger alignment tool a couple of years ago was one of teh best choices I've made. Just having paint build-up under a removable hanger can cause misalignment.


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## DNM (Feb 27, 2008)

C-40 said:


> Check your RD hanger alignment. It's easy to assume that a new or undamaged bike has a properly aligned hanger, but I would never assume that. Buying my own hanger alignment tool a couple of years ago was one of teh best choices I've made.  Just having paint build-up under a removable hanger can cause misalignment.


I hear you on that. A friend has one I can use.

Also, after I got home today, I played a bit with the tension screw (the "B" screw equivalent) to move the jockey wheel up, and reset the cable tension so that a pre-shift will just send the chain up to the larger cog (that eliminates any operator caused over-travel). Seems to work better, but I will know more when it isn't dark and raining and I can ride outside. [By "pre-shift" I mean to shift before turning the cranks, so the jockey wheel is already in the final position.]

Rest just may be technique and getting used to the different feel of the 11 speed.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*more...*

You might want to read Campy's instructions for setting the upper pulley position.

I don't get the pre-shift. The last thing you should do is shift when the pedals are not turning. That's part of what makes for good shifting - a decent cadence.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

*Wtf ?*



DNM said:


> ... reset the cable tension so that a pre-shift will just send the chain up to the larger cog (that eliminates any operator caused over-travel). Seems to work better, but I will know more when it isn't dark and raining and I can ride outside. [By "pre-shift" I mean to shift before turning the cranks, so the jockey wheel is already in the final position.]...


How can that shift technique possibly be efficient or effective, especially uphill or in a race? Plus, you wouldn't be very popular in paceline, when stopping pedaling could upset the smoothness & rhythm of the line.


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## DNM (Feb 27, 2008)

*Just for test*



C-40 said:


> You might want to read Campy's instructions for setting the upper pulley position.
> 
> I don't get the pre-shift. The last thing you should do is shift when the pedals are not turning. That's part of what makes for good shifting - a decent cadence.


It is just a test function. I do not do it when riding. It demonstrates that the chain will go up to the next cog when the shifting paddle is in a neutral state.

In business, this is where the phone would be picked up and a conversation occur.


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## rward325 (Sep 22, 2008)

Not finicky at all compared to the last groupo I used. That one required adjustment constantly. For cleaning the Cassettes I have found using a stiff bristle paint brush with a little orange de-greaser on it works really well and better yet removei nthe cassette all together is better. I make sure to use low pressure water when rinsing and all is well in the word of SR 11 for me. I clean the drive train every other week if it is dry out and immediately if it was raining. I have a little over 2500 miles on the chain and cassette and all is still looking good.


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## dhfreak (Sep 12, 2009)

It's not as finicky as the older groups; however, it does have a bit of break-in finickiness. My new Chorus 11 still is a bear to shift into the lowest cog.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

dhfreak said:


> It's not as finicky as the older groups; however, it does have a bit of break-in finickiness. My new Chorus 11 still is a bear to shift into the lowest cog.


You might want to counter-clockwise turn the "L" limit screw another 1/2 turn.

With proper setup of shifters and cable tension, the shifters control the maximum inboard movement of the rear derailleur, not the limit screw .

The limit screw should be treated as the "_safety backup of last resort_" -- if you have 1-2 mm clearance between RD cage and all the spokes, when you firmly press in the RD by hand, you are OK.


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## DNM (Feb 27, 2008)

*Hanger Alignment and Update*



C-40 said:


> Check your RD hanger alignment. It's easy to assume that a new or undamaged bike has a properly aligned hanger, but I would never assume that. Buying my own hanger alignment tool a couple of years ago was one of teh best choices I've made. Just having paint build-up under a removable hanger can cause misalignment.


I bought an alignment tool, and found alignment to be less than ideal. Fixed that and increased the chain tension adjustment. I think that is going to do the trick. I did not put on the longer hanger.

I went on a 50 mile ride today, and had only (2) less than perfect shifts, with fingered gloves on. I think I just need a bit more time with the softer feel of the 2009 shifters and my issues will be resolved.

On the Cannondale, increasing the chain tension adjustment helped it at well. I figured since I was running a 13-29 with a short cage, I should leave the tension minimized, but that was not correct. I think it is better to error tight than loose, at least with this set-up (only 11 tooth differential on the front).

Thanks for the help.

DNM


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*chain tension?*

You mean chain length? There is only one proper way. Make the chain as long as possible when routed through the RD and around the little/little combination. That's a real must with the 13-29 since a short cage only has enough wrap capacity with some frames, but not all. If the chain was too short to start with you can't safely make it longer. 

Most road bikes should only need one chain length to handle any cassette that the manufacturer sells.


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## DNM (Feb 27, 2008)

*Chain Tension*



C-40 said:


> You mean chain length? There is only one proper way. Make the chain as long as possible when routed through the RD and around the little/little combination. That's a real must with the 13-29 since a short cage only has enough wrap capacity with some frames, but not all. If the chain was too short to start with you can't safely make it longer.
> 
> Most road bikes should only need one chain length to handle any cassette that the manufacturer sells.


I mean the Campy equivalent of a "B" Screw. I had it all the way loose. Bringing the jockey wheel up improved the shifting.

My length is OK by the fact that I am running 39 & 50 rings. Gives me lots of latitude. For me, that is almost an ideal gear set, only be better with a 12-29.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*info...*

See page 14, figure 13. 

http://www.campagnolo.com/repository/documenti/en/7225442-11s_Rear_derailleur-11-09.pdf


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## tjjm36m3 (Mar 4, 2008)

C-40 said:


> If you're a compact user, the 11-25 has a 16T cog that 10 speed is missing.


The 16t cog is the one gear I so want from my 10spd 11-25 cassette. But now I'm using 11-23 and my want is kind of taken care of, minus the 25t. Eventually I'll go to 11spd since all I have heard is good things about it.


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