# cross tire rolling resistance



## MIN in PDX (Nov 29, 2007)

Any empirical data or subjective opinions out there on cross tires with low rolling resistance?

My mounted some old Bontrager CXR 34c knobbies on my Lemond Fillmore fixed gear, and coming from road tubulars, these things roll like poo. There's got to be a compromise tire which handles dirt (not mud) and rolls faster on asphalt. 

Sugggestions?


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

Semi-slicks? Michelin Jet, Ritchey Speedmax, Vittoria EVO XV for clinchers. Or for tubulars there is the Dugast Pipistrello, Challenge Dry and Vittoria again with the EVO XN. Edit: Tufo also makes a diamond tread tubular.

Like MTB tires, CX tires are not really designed for riding a lot of asphalt. Any kind of knobbed tire will wear quickly.


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## MIN in PDX (Nov 29, 2007)

PeanutButterBreath said:


> Semi-slicks? Michelin Jet, Ritchey Speedmax, Vittoria EVO XV for clinchers. Or for tubulars there is the Dugast Pipistrello, Challenge Dry and Vittoria again with the EVO XN. Edit: Tufo also makes a diamond tread tubular.
> 
> Like MTB tires, CX tires are not really designed for riding a lot of asphalt. Any kind of knobbed tire will wear quickly.


Yeah semi-slick clinchers. Of the 3 you mentioned, what do you suggest?

Aside- I spent over an hour this weekend dremmelling the side knobs off the Bontragers to get it fit without rubbing on the chainstay. Bike nerds unite.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

Unfortunately the Avocet Cross II is no longer in production. Great semi-slick.

I like Panaracer Pasela TG 28c, 32d, or 35c for all-around riding.

The Vittoria cross clincher diamond-tread is a great tire but wears down very quickly.

The Jack Brown looks like a nice variation on the theme and comes pre-approved by Andy Hampsten.


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

I've only ridden the Ritcheys. I was on the heavy steel bead versions, which I used on my commuter all last winter. Handled pretty well in snow and ice so I would expect decent performance on dirt. What can I say -- I didn't hate them. Wear was much better than with any full knobby.

Originally bought them to set up with Stan's for dry races, but no dice there. Should have bought the kevlar beads. :mad2:

The WTB Interwolf might be worth a look too.


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## Unoveloce (Apr 13, 2005)

*WTB or Michelin*

Both roll pretty nicely. I like the WTB Interwolf a little better because of the almost center ridge it has. The chevron pattern on the Michelin feels a bit slower and makes a funny noise at speed on pavement. The Interwolf rolls smooth and has a nice supple feel. Almost like a big road tire, more than a smaller knobby or rough riding commuter. It was awesome on the ride I did on Saturday. 50 miles, 8400 ft of climbing, and 85% gravel road.


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## MIN in PDX (Nov 29, 2007)

pretender said:


> Unfortunately the Avocet Cross II is no longer in production. Great semi-slick.
> 
> I like Panaracer Pasela TG 28c, 32d, or 35c for all-around riding.
> 
> ...


Those sound great for commuting but it'd be nice to have some knobs on the side for more bite in off-camber dirt and grass. I find slicks and inverted treads to be deficient in these areas.


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## MIN in PDX (Nov 29, 2007)

Unoveloce said:


> Both roll pretty nicely. I like the WTB Interwolf a little better because of the almost center ridge it has. The chevron pattern on the Michelin feels a bit slower and makes a funny noise at speed on pavement. The Interwolf rolls smooth and has a nice supple feel. Almost like a big road tire, more than a smaller knobby or rough riding commuter. It was awesome on the ride I did on Saturday. 50 miles, 8400 ft of climbing, and 85% gravel road.


Whoa, sounds like quite the ride! My kind of guy.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

MIN in PDX said:


> Those sound great for commuting but it'd be nice to have some knobs on the side for more bite in off-camber dirt and grass. I find slicks and inverted treads to be deficient in these areas.


Maxxis Raze might be the right compromise. I raced them last year, they have a nice feel IMO.


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## Unoveloce (Apr 13, 2005)

*It was a great ride.*

I started and finished in Talent, OR. My route took me into Ashland and up to Mt Ashland via the dirt FS roads, then over the Siskiyou Crest to Wagner Gap on gravel. I was ready for the last 4 miles to be downhill pavement by that time!


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## gewilli (Dec 18, 2006)

ya could always just ride those tires ya destroyed with the dremel until they were slicks...

ya need to beat anyone on the tarmak or are you just looking for the illusion that you are going fast???

and hard pack dirt vs loose dirt - very different... 

the fact that you've taken the side knobs off makes me think ya don't need to turn much so... why bother running cross tires anyway...

stick some treaded Marathons or Panaracer Pesalas(sp) on there... they'll grip well enough in dirt that you can have fun (I do with the former) on your 'cross' bike and still be solid on pavement...


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## MIN in PDX (Nov 29, 2007)

gewilli said:


> ya could always just ride those tires ya destroyed with the dremel until they were slicks...
> 
> ya need to beat anyone on the tarmak or are you just looking for the illusion that you are going fast???
> 
> ...


(1) re: side knobs - I never miss them on knobbie tubs and I find that tubs generally don't have side knobs, at least not to the extent that some clinchers like the Bontrager CXR does. My maximum lean angle is maybe 40 degress, and even at that lean, the outer side-most knobs aren't used for traction unless it's really muddy.

(2) Do you find the casing supple with either the Pasela or Marathons? A real beef I have with commuting tires is that their heavy duty construction minimizes casing flex and therefore rides like a garden hose.


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## gewilli (Dec 18, 2006)

yes - at least the marathons do - they ride like a garden hose, but then, so what? they actually aren't too bad when I run them around 65psi (28c size - me 200 pounds) at max rec inflation they are pretty freaking garden hose like...

but then, so? i really only care about suppleness when racing...


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## lotus1 (Oct 16, 2004)

:mad2:


PeanutButterBreath said:


> I've only ridden the Ritcheys. I was on the heavy steel bead versions, which I used on my commuter all last winter. Handled pretty well in snow and ice so I would expect decent performance on dirt. What can I say -- I didn't hate them. Wear was much better than with any full knobby.
> 
> Originally bought them to set up with Stan's for dry races, but no dice there. Should have bought the kevlar beads.
> 
> ...


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## danwerle (Oct 11, 2005)

I've been really happy with two other options:

for clinchers, I'm all about these: 

http://www.schwalbe.com/gbl/en/bicy...&tn_mainPoint=Fahrrad&tn_subPoint=Cyclo+Cross. The Schwalbe CX Comp tires come in two sizes (30 & 35), roll great, have good sidewall protection, and are pretty inexpensive (about $15 at Veloshop). 

for tubulars, I've been pretty happy with these: 

http://www.fm-boyaux.fr/cyclocross.htm. The FMB SSC Sprints are outstanding. The side knobs might be precisely what you're looking for. They are lightweight, well-constructed, and are built by one of the masters in the tire business. The are, unfortunately, not inexpensive, but are also available probably through Mike Z. here on the forums, or Molly at Veloshop.


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

I believe they are 32s. I chose the wire with Stan's recommendation in mind, but since that didn't work out I would rather be running the kevlar's with sealant injected tubes than the heavier wire version.

They aired up but it was a hassle. The beads never sealed very well and the whole experiment fell apart pretty quickly (hit a crack in the pavement and immediately lost all the air in the back tire).

The casings are pretty stiff, and I suspect that between that and the wire beads they are a poor choice for Stan's unless you have the rim/rim-strip combo dialed.


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## MIN in PDX (Nov 29, 2007)

danwerle said:


> I've been really happy with two other options:
> 
> for clinchers, I'm all about these:
> 
> ...


I ended up with these Vittoria XN 32s from Universal Cycles. 










I have been talking to Molly about the FMBs. It's great they are a local dealer. My Zipps will be wearing FMBs this fall. I hear they put A.Dugast to shame. We'll see...


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## lotus1 (Oct 16, 2004)

Thanks for the reply!
It looks like it will be a trial and error program to get the right combo that works with the ZTR355s. 
I wish I could run the Hutch CX Bulldog but a 32 is the max rear I can use. I'm not sure how it rolls on pavement or smooth dirt and are heavier (400g) but are supposed to be a great traction tire/tubeless.


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## syqnt (Jun 24, 2008)

lotus1 said:


> Thanks for the reply!
> It looks like it will be a trial and error program to get the right combo that works with the ZTR355s.
> I wish I could run the Hutch CX Bulldog but a 32 is the max rear I can use. I'm not sure how it rolls on pavement or smooth dirt and are heavier (400g) but are supposed to be a great traction tire/tubeless.


I have folding SpeedMaxs mounted on 14mm rims. Inflated, they measure less than 28mm with my calipers so you may be able to go wider. I wouldn't recommend these with a Stan's kit though. The folding bead doesn't seem to seat all that well. I popped a bead on one of these (with a tube) at about 90PSI while pumping it up for the road.


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## lotus1 (Oct 16, 2004)

Hi,
90 psi might be a bit high for speedmax but with the feedback so far I might try Vredestein cx tires in 30 or 34. I understand they are smaller than the stated size and I might be able to use those. On the Stans message board feedback is the Vredesteins work well but they have limited experience. Reportedly they roll well on pavement!. Seems like the bead quality and shape are the most important things for tubeless.
Thanks,
Gary


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## singlecross (Nov 1, 2006)

MIN in PDX said:


> I ended up with these Vittoria XN 32s from Universal Cycles.


I use those on my IF for my mixed pavement/dirt road commute and have been happy with them. That said I wore the file tread off the center rear in about 500 miles so they are now essentially a slick center/ file tread side. They roll well and are quite cushy.

singlecross


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