# Poll: Do you talc your tires/tubes?



## hugh jass (Feb 5, 2008)

I've always given new tires/tubes a nice coating a talcum powder before mounting them on the wheel. My feeling is that it makes the ride a bit more supple, although I've never tried without.:idea: 

Do you talc? If so, why?


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## Davoosie (Mar 17, 2007)

I don't, never have, never will.

Talc is only used to help in removal and installation of the tire/tube to the rim, and even that is up in the air. There are no other benefits to it.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

I talc tubes every time I install them - always have, always will. A few years ago I changed tubes mid-ride for riding buddies and the tubes were damn near welded inside the tire. I thought the tubes were going to rip. Talc makes the tubes so much easier to remove and install.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Only if the tire is a tight fit...


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Talc*



Mike T. said:


> I talc tubes every time I install them - always have, always will. A few years ago I changed tubes mid-ride for riding buddies and the tubes were damn near welded inside the tire. I thought the tubes were going to rip. Talc makes the tubes so much easier to remove and install.


+1 What he said.


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## Squidward (Dec 18, 2005)

I don't. And neither does Jobst Brandt.


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## function (Jun 20, 2008)

Never, Brandt has some good points


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

i use talc. most of the tubes are as thin as i can get them without talc the tube is practically glued to the inside of the tire. locally it gets close to 100 degrees, upper 90s during the riding time.


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## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

Never.


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## Tad Preen (Jul 17, 2009)

*Always*



hugh jass said:


> I've always given new tires/tubes a nice coating a talcum powder before mounting them on the wheel. My feeling is that it makes the ride a bit more supple, although I've never tried without.:idea:
> 
> Do you talc? If so, why?


It always makes installation and removal easier. It has never caused any problems for me. Maybe Jobst's problem was user fault. The tube can get pinched at any point, not just when the last bit of bead is being popped on. And from my experience, talc does indeed prevent a stick tube from sticking to a sticky bead. 
I'm open to the possibility that a tube that's stuck to the inner wall of a tire might go flat more gradually, but it will go flat, so you have to change it anyways. Even if it's a slow leak, I carry everything needed to change it out, and I'd rather versus riding on a mushy tire.


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## MrTiles (Feb 28, 2005)

never for the last 15+ years


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

Never, it's abrasive, a mess when wet, and the more stuck to the tire the tube is the less rolling resistance you'll have.

Super light tubes may get damaged pulling them loose but a light tube with a patch isn't a light smooth rolling tube anymore so what's the point? If you use very lite tubes toss them. Heavier ones can be pulled free without damage and patched.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

Mike T. said:


> I talc tubes every time I install them - always have, always will. A few years ago I changed tubes mid-ride for riding buddies and the tubes were damn near welded inside the tire. I thought the tubes were going to rip. Talc makes the tubes so much easier to remove and install.


+1. It offers the benefit that Mike T. says with no down side. Abrasive? I Would argue it is not as abrasive as the inner casing of the tire.


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

i have never found it necessary at all


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## HAL9000 (May 1, 2002)

Only a mess when wet if the talc you used was really Cornstarch baby powder. Talc has always made tire mounting (and removal) far easier in my experience. Especially road side.


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

At home, I always use powder when installing a tube.
I inflate with my mouth and drop it into a large Tupperware with powder in it and shake until tube is coated.
The powder makes the tube slippery and it slides inside the tire easily.
The powder on the inside of the rim seems to help with pushing a tight tire bead over the last part of the rim.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

I do. Johnson's baby powder - the melon scent. Great smelling tubes...


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## TedH (Jan 1, 1970)

Just inside the tire, not the tube. Find that new tubes set up easier.


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## tperez11 (Nov 4, 2006)

I use talc for rolling resistance. From an article on Vittoria tires: "coating a tube with talc reduces rolling resistance because the movement between the tire and tube is lubricated; the two parts do not move as one thicker unit. The contribution of the tube to the rolling resistance of the tire is one argument in favor of tubeless road racing tires, now under development by Michelin and Hutchinson; a tire without a tube should absorb less energy rolling along."


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## nor_cal_rider (Dec 18, 2006)

I started to when I moved to Redding (otherwise known as a summer blast furnace) because the tires were sticking to the tubes from the heat. Never had the same problem back in the midwest, but a couple of summers at 110* made it a real PITA to remove a punctured tube on my old MTB.


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## pgk (Jun 30, 2008)

Always


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## DS1239622 (Mar 21, 2007)

> From an article on Vittoria tires: "coating a tube with talc reduces rolling resistance because the movement between the tire and tube is lubricated; the two parts do not move as one thicker unit. The contribution of the tube to the rolling resistance of the tire is one argument in favor of tubeless road racing tires, now under development by Michelin and Hutchinson; a tire without a tube should absorb less energy rolling along."


That sounds like garbage to me. As the Sheldon Brown website article states the tube does not move inside the tire. 

Never used powder on a tube or tire and have never had one bit of trouble without it. From what Ive read, seen, and experienced, it doesnt hurt or help. So why waste your money and time?


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## dhtucker4 (Jul 7, 2004)

Whenever I mount a new tire that is high threads-per-inch (no, 120 and 127 tpi is NOT that high), it helps mounting the tube inside a brand-spanking-new tire. Specialized used to talc their road tubes inside a very small Ziploc bag (the price was about the same as Race Lite tubes), but now they want an extra $5. 

What helps me a lot in putting on a new high-tpi tire is to talc the inside of the tire. Of course, I live in a place where it's really hot, and I don't use very thin tubes. I found over the years they cause flats without any road debris. All of my riding group that uses clinchers have seen so much road debris on every road. People in cars/trucks/SUV's throw everything out - that's the mindset in Texas, and probably everywhere in the South.

As a rule, I don't normally talc my tubes, which are butyl, not latex.


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## sanrensho (Jan 2, 2003)

I always do, but the benefits aren't that long-lasting. I've pulled off many a talced tube that is now stuck to the tire.


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

I always do. While I don't think it does much after initial inflation, until you pull the tube out again, it sure helps the initial installation. Nothing sticks.


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

DS1239622 said:


> That sounds like garbage to me. As the Sheldon Brown website article states the tube does not move inside the tire.
> 
> Never used powder on a tube or tire and have never had one bit of trouble without it. From what Ive read, seen, and experienced, it doesnt hurt or help. *So why waste your money and time?*


The thing is just the other week I refilled my bottle of talc for the first time in maybe 20 years, cost IDK probably about a $1 or 2. Time wise, squeeze a bit in your hand, run the tube through your hand and 5 seconds later you are done. Alternately, keep a ziplock baggie with talc in it, insert tube and shake. That 5-10 seconds probably comes off the time it would otherwise take to flip the last couple of inches of tire bead over the rim. YMMV


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## Steve-O (Jan 28, 2004)

*Yes*

I enjoy the baby fresh scent!

Tubes not sticking is an added benefit. Also makes the install easier when mounting a really tight tire. The talc acts as a lubricant to let the tube slide into place easier. Less chance of a accidently pinching the tube when getting those last 6 inches of tire bead over the lip of the rim.


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

this thread is getting almost as funny as campy vs shimano/whats that oil that comes on brand new chains/etc


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

How about a valve cap vs. no valve cap thread/poll?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

alexb618 said:


> this thread is getting almost as funny as campy vs shimano/whats that oil that comes on brand new chains/etc


How about briefs vs boxers? We did that years ago over at MTBR.com - there ain't no right answer.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

zac said:


> How about a valve cap vs. no valve cap thread/poll?


Valve nut vs no valve nut.


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

Mike T. said:


> Valve nut vs no valve nut.


what sort of freak leaves the valve nuts on!


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

alexb618 said:


> what sort of freak leaves the valve nuts on!


One like this -


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## j73 (Sep 15, 2009)

This is funny............but I baby powder my tubes n tires.....ROCK ON!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbsup:


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

Only when either will get a rash.


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## tdi-rick (Oct 2, 2007)

Yep, always seem to talc the tubes, no valve stem nuts on the roadie 'cause they aren't threaded and it's boxers here Mike, fitted boxers


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## jared20 (Feb 17, 2009)

never have never will


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## MarcoL (Feb 14, 2008)

I always do.


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## tlc4bikes (Dec 31, 2009)

I sell Torelli inner tubes and they come with a bag of talc powder (at the same cost as other 700 x 23 tubes). I use them because the talc does help with installing the innertube into a tire and seperating the innertube from the tire. If that is all that talc does - I can live with that. As for DS1239622 comment about Sheldon Brown says that the innertube does not move. Tell me why does the valve stem lean sharply to one side after rideing a tire that has low air pressure? I am refering to a high percentage of small kids bike wheels. I think that the innertube can move even encased by the tire. Or it might be the innertube is stuck to the tire and the whole tire moves (while being ridden while under low pressure). If the case is the latter then talc powder should help.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

tdi-rick said:


> it's boxers here Mike, fitted boxers


Ohhh no man you should have briefs!! They hold yer nut$ up better. It's true I tell ya.


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

Boxer Briefs. Best of both worlds.


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## 11.4 (Mar 2, 2008)

I talc. Here's why.

First, the tires does actually move. Jobst tested under artificial conditions, like he usually does. Also, he didn't differentiate between small movement (say, 5 mm or less) and larger movement). I took some colored chalk and marked a thin line on a tire in a few places, then rode it for about 50 miles. Took it off afterwards and the chalk had moved to cover about 2 cm. So there's a good bit of sliding going on to move the chalk that far. Some of what the chalk does is to allow the tube to settle in after installing -- haven't you noticed that when you install it you'll have some areas loose and some rather tight? Some of what the chalk also does is allow the small movement (1-3 mm) that occurs with riding and that is really all one would need to create significant rolling resistance issues and also wear tires. (If you talc a latex tube it comes out a thousand miles later looking clean; if you don't talc it, it often comes out looking rather worn from chafing on the tire casing.) 

One source of screwy results is that "talc" can be either true "talcum powder" or cornstarch. Most talc out there is cornstarch these days, which is designed for baby bottoms and is more to keep the skin dry than to provide actual dry lubrication. In a tire, not only does it not do the job you're expecting it to, but it also turns into soup if it gets wet at all. And at that point it just glues everything in place as well. Hence some of the results described above. Also, you have to have enough true talcum to keep the tire from sticking, and some tire casings are pretty sticky inside with a lot of latex or rubber exposed so no amount of talcum sticking to the inner tube will be sufficient to prevent sticking. 

As for talcum itself, it's a dry flake lubricant and falls in the same category of lubricants as dry powdered graphite. It really does lubricate. True talcum won't chafe or abrade your tire like an abrasive. Again, cornstarch can be quite different -- it actually is rather gritty and can wear a light tube a bit. If there's abrasion on a tire, however, it's more that the casing has been able to abrade the tube, not that the talcum or cornstarch is doing it.

In short, there is so much variability in what's being used (type of tire, type of tube, type of talc) and how it's being used that most talc'ed-tube results are apocryphal at best.

On a few other points: The reason a valve stem gets angled is usually because the tire casing grabs the inner tube and they both move together. However, it's surprisingly hard to get that whole tire to move much at all. Watch cross riders with clinchers inflated very low and you don't normally see valve stem creep. It's more a result of riding a completely flat tire or of having an unevenly stretched tube that just equilibrates itself during riding and pulls the stem sideways. 

On rolling resistance (here comes the hail of fire arrows), a casing stuck to a butyl inner tube is much more rigid than a casing and tube that can flex independently. Jobst's model for how tubes and casings flex is again rather artificial. When you're riding it isn't just how you ride over a bump (he tested rolling resistance, like most people do, on a roller drum). There's quite a bit of the tire that is reacting to contact with the road, plus it happens so fast that the tire is still recovering when it hits the road again. And in strong riding there are strong lateral and diagonal force vectors that cause the tire to partially detach from the rim dimensions (i.e., the tire starts to lift free and flex side to side and even face a rotatory action right at the contact patch -- though the rotation is more just a slightly curved force since the contact patch moves past so fast). In short, it's a much more complex model. And the second you add rough road surface, any water or oil, turns, and everything else that happens in real life, you start having multiple models for how rolling resistance is incurred. The models for optimizing rolling resistance on high performance auto and motorcyle tires (and used by Conti for their 4000S tire as well) are large matrix models with a large number of variables, much more than any of the usual rolling resistance tests. When those companies compared the simplistic tests done in Tour magazine and the like to their own testing, the amateur tests demonstrate some rather significant and consistent inaccuracies. When you hear about Conti getting lower RR than Tour, for example, the tests used by Conti are duplicated from their race formula auto tires where actual speed differences have been proven and documented. Just sayin'. 

And last, no caps. Don't you know the caps will gather wind resistance at high speeds and cause frame shimmy?


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## 180 (Jan 10, 2009)

I always do. Ever since I started using talc I haven't had a pinch flat....or any flats for that matter.


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## NextTime (Oct 13, 2007)

I always talc when installing a new tube. It helps me with the installation. If I was better skilled I probably wouldn't need it.

As to whether it impacts rolling resistance or not I have no idea and I don't care.


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## tdi-rick (Oct 2, 2007)

Mike T. said:


> Ohhh no man you should have briefs!! They hold yer nut$ up better. It's true I tell ya.



Only when riding horses when wearing Wranglers, and I'm not going into how I know....


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## parlorbikes (Aug 4, 2009)

I use talc for ease of tire installation, flat prevention and to decrease rolling resistance. 

Has been proven many times on many websites that it DOES decrease rolling resistance. 

Sheldon Brown's website is a great source for INTERNET OPINION MADE INFORMATION, and lots of factual info too. I would refer to lab data like Conti listed above, not to mention ALL the tubulars I know use talc inside for the tube/casing contact area. 

It is hard to find but some brands sell pre-talced tubes= Specialized is one, and some sell tube with a bag of talc inside=Torelli. I have always suggested to use talc on any 120+ TPI tire Vittoria/Veloflex/Deda/Challenge/Torelli.


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## paul l (Aug 3, 2009)

Never found it necessary for the road but talc has come ot the rescue for a difficult wheel/trainer-tyre combination.

My old Mavic CXP30 and Conti turbo trainer tyre were fine (although a pig to fit).
However my Easton EA50SL and Vittoria turbo trainer were incredibly frustrating due to the tightness. I busted two brand new inners in the process and talc came to the rescue on the third so I will use it again for trainer tyres if nothing else.


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## FSonicSmith (Jan 2, 2003)

Where do you find true talc (not cornstarch)?


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## 11.4 (Mar 2, 2008)

FSonicSmith said:


> Where do you find true talc (not cornstarch)?


Drug store. Just read the label. Some brands and versions are cornstarch. Others are talc.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

11.4 said:


> Drug store.


If it's good enough for babies' bottoms, it's good enough for my tubes.


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## pdainsworth (Jun 6, 2004)

I use Specialized Turbo tubes... pre-talced.


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## tinman143 (Aug 14, 2009)

thought about it but dont


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## 34505838 (Dec 13, 2012)

The real question on talcum powder-cancer link - CNN

i heard it might cause lung cancer too

https://www.baumhedlundlaw.com/ovarian-cancer-talcum-powder-lawsuit/


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## dmanthree (Aug 22, 2014)

Yes. Having a slick tube will help it to seat and makes it easier to remove, if necessary.


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## dmanthree (Aug 22, 2014)

Squidward said:


> I don't. And neither does Jobst Brandt.


Brandt contradicts himself by saying that bicycle tubes don't get hot enough to vulcanize and stick to the tire, and then says that a tube that's stuck to the tire will retain air longer in the event of a puncture.

I'll stick with talc, thanks.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

I used to talc my tubes. Then I realized the even with talc, the tire and tube stick to each other. So I don't bother anymore.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Old thread.

Never have used talc, never will, it's 100% unnecessary.

It's an old wive's tale passed down over the years by those too incompetent to learn how to properly install a tube in a bicycle tire.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

I use Johnson's baby powder on the first install of a new tube in a new tire.

Not because I think it does anything significant.

I just like the smell.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Migen21 said:


> I use Johnson's baby powder on the first install of a new tube in a new tire.
> 
> Not because I think it does anything significant.
> 
> I just like the smell.


Does it have to be Johnson's or will store brand do?


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## natedg200202 (Sep 2, 2008)

I do. It’s how my dad taught me to do it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

Lombard said:


> Does it have to be Johnson's or will store brand do?


I dunno. I bought a bottle of Johnsons' baby powder about 25 years ago. I still have most of it left. I'll be about 350 years old before I run out. I might consider trying something different at that point.


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## dookie (Oct 1, 2007)

The post before this one was almost eight YEARS ago y'all...

#34yadayada FTW!

And yes, always powder. Latex + Open Corsa(/Pave) 25(/27) = bliss, with or without probably...but it does ease service. I find the tubes like to stick without, and the Vittoria tubes even seem to come dusted with something. 


34505838 said:


> The real question on talcum powder-cancer link - CNN
> 
> i heard it might cause lung cancer too
> 
> https://www.baumhedlundlaw.com/ovarian-cancer-talcum-powder-lawsuit/


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## dookie (Oct 1, 2007)

[duplicate removed]


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## tka (Jun 11, 2014)

No baby powder. 

Yes tire talc
View attachment 321366


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

tka said:


> No baby powder.
> 
> Yes tire talc
> View attachment 321366


If it doesn't smell like baby powder, I'm not interested


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