# The Rock Racing team bus



## bigpinkt

is about to get uncomfortable. Sorry can't say more but it could be very interesting next year. 

Mr. Ball experiments continues


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## 3rensho

"let's give it up for Alexander Vinokourov!" 

(wouldn't that be freaking hilarious?)


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## Mootsie

Francisco Mancebo come on down. You're the next reject to play the Price must have been Right.


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## bigpinkt

I can't say it yet but of think the exact opposite of Mancebo and Vino


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## Jokull

Somebody from one of the 'clean-teams'?

Danielson??!!


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## Henry Porter

bigpinkt said:


> I can't say it yet but of think the exact opposite of Mancebo and Vino


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## teffisk

opposite of vino?........... contador? hahaha, maybe zabel will come out from retirement


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## Mootsie

Ian Macgregor


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## bigmig19

Do you work for the CIA? I think you can say and nobody will hold it against you. By the way, that fat guy in little (lampre) suit picture is hilarious.


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## traumabill

Hmmm.... Matt DeCanio????


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## bigpinkt

you didn't hear it from me


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## ROGER79

*Well then......*

So far we haven't heard ANYTHING from you......

SPILL IT!!!!!!!


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## chuckice

What a stupid thread.


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## jupiterrn

Lemond is coming out of retirement to ride for rock racing.


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## cycledog81

JV is leaving his ugly sweaters and turtlenecks on Garmin bus and coming out of retirement to avenge his leaving the tour for that bee sting to the eye. He wants to bring global awareness to the millions of people that get stung every year. JV has always been part of the dark side (Postal, CA) and now wants to return to his true nature. Michael Ball has agreed to design argle designer jeans with a JV. Newest rumor is that LA is NOT going back to Astana so he can join his close friend JV at Rock Racing.


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## Mootsie

traumabill said:


> Hmmm.... Matt DeCanio????


Now that would be interesting.


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## weltyed

no way it would be minnie phinney, right?


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## ROGER79

*Well......*

We're waiting... tick... tick... tick........


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## jd3

I'd bet there are many members here who have never heard of Matt DeCanio.
http://nateayers.blogspot.com/2006/10/matt-decanioso-last-night-i-was.html

http://velonews.com/article/7451


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## innergel

Hincapie?


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## bigmig19

20 replies to a thread that started with "i think I know something you all dont and Im not telling". We suck.


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## weltyed

*aftre reading that velonews article*

...decanio sounds right.
but why would that make it uncomfortable on the bus? RR is supposed to be clean, right?



jd3 said:


> I'd bet there are many members here who have never heard of Matt DeCanio.
> http://nateayers.blogspot.com/2006/10/matt-decanioso-last-night-i-was.html
> 
> http://velonews.com/article/7451


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## uzziefly

chuckice said:


> What a stupid thread.


Word.


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## mohair_chair

Here is the new Rock Racing team bus. Very uncomfortable.


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## gonzaleziam

chuckice said:


> What a stupid thread.



Getting more stupid with every posting.


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## Chili Fries

bigpinkt said:


> you didn't hear it from me


The Commander loves the bling.


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## Magsdad

Is it Jesus Christ?


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## chuckice

gonzaleziam said:


> Getting more stupid with every posting.


So you encourage completely random and empty rumor garbage with no facts and actually no names, i.e. "A certain doped up cyclist is going to start his own cycling team! Can't say who/what/when/where/why tho! Later."

Awesome info!  [email protected]


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## bigpinkt

Chili Fries said:


> The Commander loves the bling.


That he does...it should be an interesting mix. They should film a reality series.


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## Coolhand

This thread makes me despair for humanity.


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## Chili Fries

bigpinkt said:


> That he does...it should be an interesting mix. They should film a reality series.


Do teammates get discounts on tats?


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## bigpinkt

Coolhand said:


> This thread makes me despair for humanity.


You have high standards for a bike forum. Don't worry Humanity will be fine.....if you can't figure out it is Matt, like everyone else has, then you haven't been paying attention.


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## sabre104

I bet it's George W., he will be unemployed after Jan., perfect timing for T.O.C.


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## bahueh

*ollerenshaw is gone..*

so they have room on the bus for somebody else with an extremely hard to pronounce long name...


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## cdhbrad

.....on a Trek, his favorite bike co.


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## teffisk

ivan domingues?


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## JSR

Seems like Decanio would be a perfect fit for the bad-boy image of Rock. But why is it uncomfortable? Did he out some of those guys?

JSR


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## Mootsie

JSR said:


> Seems like Decanio would be a perfect fit for the bad-boy image of Rock. But why is it uncomfortable? Did he out some of those guys?
> 
> JSR


:mad2:


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## iliveonnitro

weltyed said:


> no way it would be minnie phinney, right?


No. Mini-Phinney already signed for the Trek/LiveStrong team, a U23 pro development team supported by Axel Merckx and Lance Armstrong.


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## Jokull

JSR said:


> Seems like Decanio would be a perfect fit for the bad-boy image of Rock. But why is it uncomfortable? Did he out some of those guys?
> 
> JSR


Good Lord.


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## Cyclo-phile

Anyone remember the lawsuit between DeCanio and Leogrande? That could be part of what bigpinkt is referring to.


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## JSR

Oh yeah. Now I get it.


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## navsnipe

Il Pirata is coming back form the dead.


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## ProRoad

two pages of BS speculation, nice.
who cares if it is Decanio, is he going to be a mechanic or the bus driver?


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## rupenaik

Do you all think De Canio was the guy posting up as "realgains" in the doping forums?


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## Creakyknees

honestly I'd never heard of the guy this I read this thread. 

guess I should follow domestic pro racing more... naaah


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## iliveonnitro

Creakyknees said:


> honestly I'd never heard of the guy this I read this thread.
> 
> guess I should follow domestic pro racing more... naaah


More interesting and less doping than protour teams.


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## ProRoad

iliveonnitro said:


> More interesting and less doping than protour teams.


You've got to be kidding right?

less interesting and Less testing than in Europe.


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## iliveonnitro

ProRoad said:


> You've got to be kidding right?
> 
> less interesting and Less testing than in Europe.


Seriously?

Less testing doesn't imply more doping. 20-30% of domestic pros do not dope. It's a whole different ballgame when the salary jumps from $5-40k/yr to $200k to 2+ mil/year.


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## ProRoad

iliveonnitro said:


> Seriously?
> 
> Less testing doesn't imply more doping. 20-30% of domestic pros do not dope. It's a whole different ballgame when the salary jumps from $5-40k/yr to $200k to 2+ mil/year.


stop using that word. I never implied anything.
Have you ever been tested? I never have. I am just saying that I disagree that it is more exciting watching a 100k square race here in the US.. Sure, it is exciting to RACE it, but not to watch it.

I do have high hopes for some of the stage races though. TOC was amazing to see.
Brian


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## TurboTurtle

ProRoad said:


> stop using that word. I never implied anything.
> Have you ever been tested? I never have. I am just saying that I disagree that it is more exciting watching a 100k square race here in the US.. Sure, it is exciting to RACE it, but not to watch it.
> 
> I do have high hopes for some of the stage races though. TOC was amazing to see.
> Brian


I would much rather watch a crit where you see the riders many times than a pt to pt where you see them once. You're comparing the local P/1/2 to the TOC. Would you drive out to the middle of nowhere to watch the local P/1/2 riders go by once in a pt to pt road race? Just a cop car, 30 riders in a bunch followed by a pick-up truck with lights? - TF


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## ProRoad

to each his own. enjoy. I prefer European racing, on TV.

You guys sure like to read into statements and make **** up.


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## iliveonnitro

ProRoad said:


> to each his own. enjoy. I prefer European racing, on TV.
> 
> You guys sure like to read into statements and make **** up.


Domestic racing != crits.


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## Mootsie

iliveonnitro said:


> Domestic racing != crits.


Really? 
Tour Calif, San Dimas, Redlands, Tour Georgia, Tour of Gila, Tour of Utah, Mt Hood, Lehigh Valley, Cascade, Tour of Missouri, Joe Martin Stage race, Tour of Leelanau, should I list more? Let's not short change the domestic scene as just crits. We should be happy that US racing has made progress to the point its at.


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## iliveonnitro

Mootsie said:


> Really?
> Tour Calif, San Dimas, Redlands, Tour Georgia, Tour of Gila, Tour of Utah, Mt Hood, Lehigh Valley, Cascade, Tour of Missouri, Joe Martin Stage race, Tour of Leelanau, should I list more? Let's not short change the domestic scene as just crits. We should be happy that US racing has made progress to the point its at.


I think you should search this page for "!="
http://www.cplusplus.com/doc/tutorial/operators.html


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## Mootsie

iliveonnitro said:


> I think you should search this page for "!="
> http://www.cplusplus.com/doc/tutorial/operators.html


Sorry I wasn't hip to your programmer language. 
Next thing you know we'll need an Ovaltine decoder ring to post on here.


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## Creakyknees

mmmm Ovaltine. 

I use Carnation Instant Breakfast power, in 2% milk, as my recovery drink.


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## Susan Walker

Creakyknees said:


> mmmm Ovaltine.
> I use Carnation Instant Breakfast power, in 2% milk, as my recovery drink.


http://thechocolategold.com/


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## bigpinkt

No official news on Matt, it may be DOA. 

But I do hear there will be a Rock Master team with some pretty heavy hitters dragging Mr. Ball himself around.


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## Jokull

I was just messin' when I slung Danielson's name into the mix, but it seems to be a "real" rumour, based on the transfer lists at cqranking: http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/transfers.asp


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## thebadger

Jokull said:


> I was just messin' when I slung Danielson's name into the mix, but it seems to be a "real" rumour, based on the transfer lists at cqranking: http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/transfers.asp


According to Vaughters in Velonews today, Danielson is signed through '09 and he expects him to be on the team.


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## Mootsie

bigpinkt said:


> I can't say it yet but of think the exact opposite of Mancebo and Vino


According to Velonews Mancebo IS joining RR along with José Enrique Gutierrez, the alleged “Bufálo” from the Puerto list.


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## bigpinkt

Mootsie said:


> According to Velonews Mancebo IS joining RR along with José Enrique Gutierrez, the alleged “Bufálo” from the Puerto list.


Yes, I think that was announced a few weeks ago. I wonder if Fuentes will be the team doctor?

Still no word on Matt.


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## Dank

If its Lemond, then all the other guys better sit on one side and Lemond on the other so the bus dosen't flip on its side. Wait, hes gonna drive the bus isn't he? RR is gonna ride Lemonds leftover bikes right? What else could it be?


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## CabDoctor

Frank Vandenbroucke?!?!?!

Usa Rock Racing 2009 () 
Name 2008: "Rock Racing" (Usa / CONT) 

IN during season 2008 
COL GRAJALES CALLE Cesar Augusto (from 1 Jul)	< Elite-2 
OUT during season 2008 
ITA CIPOLLINI Mario (until 17 Mar)	> Elite-2 

STAY 
USA HAMILTON Tyler 
COL PENA GRISALES Victor Hugo 
USA RODRIGUEZ Fred 
ESP SEVILLA RIBERA Oscar 
USA BAHATI Rahsaan probably 
COL BOTERO ECHEVERRY Santiago probably 
USA CREED Michael probably 

IN 
ESP GUTIERREZ CATALUNA Jose Enrique	
SUI VITORIA David	
COL ATAPUMA HURTADO John Darwin 
CUB DOMINGUEZ Ivan 
ESP MANCEBO PEREZ Francisco

BEL VANDENBROUCKE Frank 

STAY or OUT ? 
USA CURRY Brock 
AUS DAWSON Peter 
COL GRAJALES CALLE Cesar Augusto 
USA HERNANDEZ Sergio 
USA LEO GRANDE Kayle 
USA MAGNELL Sterling 
USA OLLERENSHAW Doug 
USA SWITTERS Adam 
USA WILLIAMS Justin 
USA WISCOVITCH Jeremiah


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## Tumbleweed

Is it Clinger? Is he coming back, again?


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## Chili Fries

bigpinkt said:


> Yes, I think that was announced a few weeks ago. I wonder if Fuentes will be the team doctor?
> 
> Still no word on Matt.


A couple weeks ago the SU site said _in negotiations_. Now he's got the Suzanne Sonye phone call embedded. Negotiations must have broken down. Lol.


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## Undecided

*Vandenbroucke*



CabDoctor said:


> Frank Vandenbroucke?!?!?!
> 
> Usa Rock Racing 2009 ()
> Name 2008: "Rock Racing" (Usa / CONT)
> 
> IN
> 
> BEL VANDENBROUCKE Frank


I have no idea whether you're making this up, but that would be great, both because it would be great to go out and see him race and because, as much as they've got some characters on the team now, he's the one that would embody the whole confused madness of it all. Unfortunately, his website suggests he's hoping to ride for a Belgian-Italian team. 

Is Rock going to have Pro Continental status next year? I want to see them at the Spring classics.


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## Susan Walker

Undecided said:


> I have no idea whether you're making this up


http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/transfers.asp


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## Undecided

*Sorry*



Susan Walker said:


> http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/transfers.asp


I wasn't trying to cast aspersions. Any idea how they're sourcing the data? Some of it is tagged with question marks, and I don't see sources cited in their "credits" page or from the "transfers" page.


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## iliveonnitro

CabDoctor said:


> STAY or OUT ?
> USA CURRY Brock
> AUS DAWSON Peter
> COL GRAJALES CALLE Cesar Augusto
> USA HERNANDEZ Sergio
> USA LEO GRANDE Kayle
> USA MAGNELL Sterling
> USA OLLERENSHAW Doug
> USA SWITTERS Adam
> USA WILLIAMS Justin
> USA WISCOVITCH Jeremiah


Don't quote me on this, but I believe Sterling Magnell, Sergio Hernandez, Dawson and possibly Switters will stick with Rock.


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## bigpinkt

iliveonnitro said:


> Don't quote me on this, but I believe Sterling Magnell, Sergio Hernandez, Dawson and possibly Switters will stick with Rock.


I have heard a few of those....but Doug is gone.


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## cyclesport45

I have a headache.

(It's not a tumor!)


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## Mootsie

If this little mystery hasn't been solved yet, I am throwing one more name into the mix: Pat McCarty. JV says he is not coming back to Garmin next year and I know PM and Creed are buds. He fits the "clean" guy profile, has euro experience and would fit into the team's goals. Do I win the prize?


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## bigpinkt

My original post was about Matt DeCanio, but it appears that they could not agree on a contract. It also appears they have much bigger issues then the atmosphere on the team bus. Ball needs to get someone that understands the sport to manage his team.

http://podiuminsight.blogspot.com/2008/11/is-rock-racing-too-old.html


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## cycledog81

# 1Matt Decanio was never up for consideration.
Pat isn't either at this point.
To end all speculation they will be registered as Domestic Pro team as before.

2009 roster:
http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=13752

Rahsaan Bahati, Chris Baldwin, Alex Boyd, Austin Carroll, Glen Chadwick, Baden Cooke, Michael Creed, Freddy Cruz, Ivan Dominguez, Danny Finneran, Jose Manuel “Chepe” Garcia, Cesar Grajales, José Enrique Gutiérrez, Tyler Hamilton, Sergio Hernandez, Sterling Magnell, Francisco Mancebo, Caleb Manion, Ian Moir, Víctor Hugo Peña, Fred Rodriguez, Oscar Sevilla, David Taner, David Vitoria and Justin Williams.


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## Mootsie

cycledog81 said:


> # 1Matt Decanio was never up for consideration.
> Pat isn't either at this point.


So who was or is?


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## Eric_H

*Help me out*



cycledog81 said:


> # 1Matt Decanio was never up for consideration.
> Pat isn't either at this point.
> To end all speculation they will be registered as Domestic Pro team as before.
> 
> 2009 roster:
> http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=13752
> 
> Rahsaan Bahati, Chris Baldwin, Alex Boyd, Austin Carroll, Glen Chadwick, Baden Cooke, Michael Creed, Freddy Cruz, Ivan Dominguez, Danny Finneran, Jose Manuel “Chepe” Garcia, Cesar Grajales, José Enrique Gutiérrez, Tyler Hamilton, Sergio Hernandez, Sterling Magnell, Francisco Mancebo, Caleb Manion, Ian Moir, Víctor Hugo Peña, Fred Rodriguez, Oscar Sevilla, David Taner, David Vitoria and Justin Williams.


Who are: Alex Boyd, Austin Carroll, Freddy Cruz, Danny Finneran, Ian Moir, and David Taner? These must be the no-namers signed to bring the average age down to UCI Continental requirement.


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## OnTheRivet

Eric_H said:


> Who are: Alex Boyd, Austin Carroll, Freddy Cruz, Danny Finneran, Ian Moir, and David Taner? These must be the no-namers signed to bring the average age down to UCI Continental requirement.


Hardly No-namers. Austin Carrol is the real deal on the track. And Finneran and Boyd are both up and coming young riders. You'd be lucky to be able to hang with these "no-namers" for more than a few minutes.


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## bigpinkt

cycledog81 said:


> To end all speculation they will be registered as Domestic Pro team as before.


What is a "Domestic Pro" Team? The UCI does have this as an option. They have Pro Tour, Pro Continental and Continental. With the exception of Pro Tour the others have age issues as well as race entry limitations

Looks like Kayle is gone
http://velonews.com/article/85204/rock-racing-releases--09-roster


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## cycledog81

Same as Continental, same as last year, but you already knew that...


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## Mootsie

Eric_H said:


> Who are: Alex Boyd, Austin Carroll, Freddy Cruz, Danny Finneran, Ian Moir, and David Taner? These must be the no-namers signed to bring the average age down to UCI Continental requirement.


That's exactly what Toyota did last year. They added "ghost" riders to bring the age down.


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## Rosicky

well Austin Carroll just won a U 23 six day event in germany with Guy East so hardly a ghost rider and next year will be his 3 rd year with Rock Racing...


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## bigpinkt

cycledog81 said:


> Same as Continental, same as last year, but you already knew that...


If I knew the answer I would not have asked the question. 

For a Continental team you are not allowed more the 16 riders, the majority have to be under 28. 

http://www.uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/getObject.asp?MenuId=&ObjTypeCode=FILE&type=FILE&id=34028&

Perhaps I am reading the rules wrong?

Austin is a serious rider, good future.


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## chase196126

Does anyone know what discipline Ian Moir is involved with for Rock? He is still technically a junior and only a cat 2 on the road. I know he is pretty good on the track but isn’t he too young to have a pro contract?


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## cycledog81

Shawn Farrell from USAC in a cyclingnews interview indicated that USAC is giving some exceptions to several teams in light of the loss of several from '08. How that play out with UCI maybe a different story, but it looks like that some creative rostering is going to be allowed to keep some guys employed from the USAC view point. 

Read Comments:
http://podiuminsight.blogspot.com/2008/11/what-is-rock-racing-doing.html

From Cycling News
Number of UCI teams declines in USA

The number of professional teams has made a sharp decline in the United States compared to last year according to the USA Cycling. Two days after USA Cycling's deadline for UCI team applications, USA Cycling technical director Shawn Farrell revealed that only 12 applications for men's continental UCI licenses, and one for the Professional Continental level had been received by the November 5 deadline.

With the Garmin-Chipotle squad moving up to the ProTour level and only BMC seeking a Pro Continental license, this leaves two fewer continental teams than last year. The Rock Racing team was rumoured to have considered moving up to the Pro Continental level, but Farrell confirmed that they had decided to stay as a Continental team.

Continental teams, the equivalent of the former division III, cannot participate in ProTour races, and can only race the "Historic" (European Classics and major races like Paris-Nice) calendar if they are registered in the country of the race. They are allowed to enter international races of all other categories except Nations Cup events.

With the loss of the Rite Aid, Jittery Joe's, Toshiba and the Toyota United teams this year, the number of US professional teams is down to sixteen for 2009 from 18 in the past two years. The decline on the women' side is even more severe, with zero teams on the UCI registration list for 2009 - down from two in 2008 and four in 2007.

Cyclingnews spoke with the manager of the DLP Racing team from North Carolina, Jonathan Kane, who explained some of the difficulties with fielding a professional team in the United States. While the UCI's limit of 15 continental registered teams per country isn't an issue this year, high fees, tight deadlines and piles of paperwork can be a daunting task for all but the most organized manager.

"The deadline for applications were much earlier this year, and we were only informed of them in the beginning of September, so there was a lot of scrambling going on," Kane said.

USA Cycling's procedures required teams to file preliminary paperwork informing the organisation of the intent to register as a professional team by September 30th in order to meet the UCI's October 31 deadline for the teams list. A November 5th deadline was given for all applications to be submitted to USA Cycling. From there, applications are put through an external auditor at the expense of the applicants.

"For a team of the minimum eight riders, without salaries, the total cost just for the team licenses is about $17,600," Kane said. The list of fees include a bank guarantee, a 6,750 Swiss Franc registration fee to the UCI, $750 fee for the auditor, and $4,000 fee to USA Cycling.

Another issue for the domestic teams is the UCI's rule which requires a majority of riders to be under the age of 28. "It's really difficult to find good young riders in the US," Kane said. His team was interested in signing three riders who were then scooped up by Lance Armstrong's new Trek-sponsored developmental team.

Kane has completed his application and his roster for the coming season, but said it was a challenge to meet the demands of USA Cycling and the UCI while staying within his budget.

He could have hired a number of older riders if he'd had the space and budget, given the current market. "There are a lot of good riders 28 and over who don't have teams this year, but a lot of them were making $50-60,000 a year. Teams like ours and Kenda [a new US pro team -ed] don't have the resources to hire those riders," Kane said.


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## Eric_H

OnTheRivet said:


> Hardly No-namers. Austin Carrol is the real deal on the track. And Finneran and Boyd are both up and coming young riders. You'd be lucky to be able to hang with these "no-namers" for more than a few minutes.


Yeah, my reply was tongue-in-cheek partially. I know Austin Carroll is a good track rider ripping it up in the Euro U23 sixdays. And it turns out David Taner is David TANNER, a strong Aussie who came up through the Australian U23 program in Italy and will surprise many in North America.

The tactic here is just like Toyota in 2008, sign up a bunch of older riders and then add some unknown young riders to bring the average age down. It is a cheap way to avoid having to pony up for UCI Continental PRO licence. I guess a UCI Conti Pro licence is a little too much committment for M. Ball, he has to guarantee contracts and salaries and won't have the ability to hire and fire at will. 

All the rumours about Rock doing the Vuelta are now officially dead, as teams must be UCI Conti Pro to be invited to a Grand Tour. Thank goodness, most of the ex-Puerto clowns on this squad do not deserve a second chance.


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## 32and3cross

cycledog81 said:


> Shawn Farrell from USAC in a cyclingnews interview indicated that USAC is giving some exceptions to several teams in light of the loss of several from '08. How that play out with UCI maybe a different story, but it looks like that some creative rostering is going to be allowed to keep some guys employed from the USAC view point.
> 
> Read Comments:
> http://podiuminsight.blogspot.com/2008/11/what-is-rock-racing-doing.html
> 
> From Cycling News
> Number of UCI teams declines in USA (rest of lifted content removed)


Instead of lifting the entire story how about a link to the correct site you did not even credit the writer.


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## BassNBrew

32and3cross said:


> Instead of lifting the entire story how about a link to the correct site you did not even credit the writer.


Nor did the poster credit the photographer, editor, printer, or the advertisers in Cycling news.


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## 32and3cross

BassNBrew said:


> Nor did the poster credit the photographer, editor, printer, or the advertisers in Cycling news.


True he simple lifted an entire protect piece of writing that someone else put hours into research and interview wise and posted it to a forum sans a link to the original work so that no one would have to go to that site and view the advertisers that pay to have ads there which in turn generates revenue and allows the people that work at Cyclingnews to get paid so that we have such places to get news.

I realize one person doing it won't cause the loss for jobs but if this is ok why not just lift their entire content and use it as you own no need to hire reporters or phographers just take someone elses.

When can I drop by where ever you work so I can take some of what you do for free?


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## BassNBrew

32and3cross said:


> True he simple lifted an entire protect piece of writing that someone else put hours into research and interview wise and posted it to a forum sans a link to the original work so that no one would have to go to that site and view the advertisers that pay to have ads there which in turn generates revenue and allows the people that work at Cyclingnews to get paid so that we have such places to get news.
> 
> I realize one person doing it won't cause the loss for jobs but if this is ok why not just lift their entire content and use it as you own no need to hire reporters or phographers just take someone elses.
> 
> When can I drop by where ever you work so I can take some of what you do for free?


Anytime. Always give out free advice in my field without expectation of payment. Sometimes they become a client and sometimes they don't. 

I understand what you're saying. Just taking issue with then tone of your post. He didn't lift material for his benefit. He did reference CN which gave them more pub then they had prior to the post and generated them a hit from me to their main page, not an embedded article.


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## cycledog81

This make you feel better ?
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/nov08/nov08news


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## 32and3cross

cycledog81 said:


> This make you feel better ?
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/nov08/nov08news



Actually how about you go back and edit your orginal lift and post that link there.


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## 32and3cross

BassNBrew said:


> Anytime. Always give out free advice in my field without expectation of payment. Sometimes they become a client and sometimes they don't.
> 
> I understand what you're saying. Just taking issue with then tone of your post. He didn't lift material for his benefit. He did reference CN which gave them more pub then they had prior to the post and generated them a hit from me to their main page, not an embedded article.


But see this is not advice ( I give that out free as well) this is actually goods and services.

The tone of my post was pretty calm from my side. Posting the entire article withe no ref link is not give cyclingnews pub, they don't look at it that way trust me. He actually would have generated more pub if he had posted the first para and link to the story which is considered fair use or a link. You linked through who knows how many did not link through biut just read the article. I agree he did not lift if for material gain but he did use it to further his discussion with out ref it.

BTW I know we are not talking about murdering folks but its a pet peeve of mine that people seem to think anything they find on the internet is free to take. It made more so that I make my living producing content for the interwebs.


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## CabDoctor

Well since we're so far off topic, here's a picture of a whale


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## 32and3cross

CabDoctor said:


> Well since we're so far off topic, here's a picture of a whale


hey where did you get that picture!

kidding


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## footballcat

calm down - about what someone copys and paste your on a message board, that **** is normal

Dont go all Hitler on copy writing ****


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## 32and3cross

footballcat said:


> calm down - about what someone copys and paste your on a message board, that **** is normal
> 
> Dont go all Hitler on copy writing ****


Is this English you trying to use here?

You need to address someone and actually try and have the sentences make sense.

Also try not calling people Hitler doesn't really even fit here, Hitler was not really a rule enforcer per se.

Not sure what the **** stands for but if your cursing I suggest a broader grasp of the English language might be in order as the rest of us managed to communicate our disagreements with out name calling or cursing.

BTW look around the page this message board also sells add space so the use of other sites protected content takes on a higher level of meaning. Also this is a moderated board where content is suppose to be controled to some degree.


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## bigpinkt

OK, lets try to get back on topic.....the Topic is what a train wreck Rock is.

They just hired Rudy Pevenage. Once you all stop laughing tell us what you think.


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## 32and3cross

bigpinkt said:


> OK, lets try to get back on topic.....the Topic is what a train wreck Rock is.
> 
> They just hired Rudy Pevenage. Once you all stop laughing tell us what you think.



Yeah what a freaking stange move that is. Its almost like Ball sees a name he recognizes from cycling news sources and hires em with out regard to their ability to add anything to the team.

Of course this makes us all wonder if he would hire Ullrich (which seems so unlikely) which begs the question would we get to see Ullrich line up for stuff like Athens Twilight .


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## Tumbleweed

bigpinkt said:


> OK, lets try to get back on topic.....the Topic is what a train wreck Rock is.
> 
> They just hired Rudy Pevenage. Once you all stop laughing tell us what you think.


Why is it laughable? He's more accomplished than RR's previous director (assuming it was Ball) and I suspect the owner has heeped lofty expectations on his superstar team for 2009 to produce huge results.


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## bigpinkt

Tumbleweed said:


> Why is it laughable? He's more accomplished than RR's previous director (assuming it was Ball) and I suspect the owner has heeped lofty expectations on his superstar team for 2009 to produce huge results.


Mariano Frederick was the previous DS and Frankie was before that. 

Pevenage was the source of much of the team turmoil and mismanagement at Telekom. He managed the Ulrich/Fuentes relationship as well as the Frieburg clinic administered team doping program......The only worse person he may have hired would be Siaz.


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## 32and3cross

bigpinkt said:


> Mariano Frederick was the previous DS and Frankie was before that.
> 
> Pevenage was the source of much of the team turmoil and mismanagement at Telekom. He managed the Ulrich/Fuentes relationship as well as the Frieburg clinic administered team doping program......The only worse person he may have hired would be Siaz.



Oddy enough the Saiz thing became an immedate joke after Rufy. Add to that what in the hell is Rudy know about US racing how will he direct them in Crits and how good is his english.


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## bigpinkt

http://velonews.com/article/85771/rock-racing-moves-some-big-names-off-its-continental-squad

Rock sure has become an amusing train wreck of a team


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## ProRoad

another BIG oops!


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## Mootsie

If I were any of the guys on the "club" squad I guess I would be happy to be on a team, just not the "B" team.


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## johnalex

OMG what a freakin' joke. Dude is the US Champion!....I absolutely don't get this.

Rock Racing...absolute FAIL.


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## Guest

Plenty of cyclists have nowhere to ride this year, I would say several of the Rock riders are glad to have a job.


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## Hagakure

It's Matt Damon people, he's riding for Rock Racing and he's the lead in the Lance Armstrong movie. He's training this year with "The Rock".

Everybody sing "Maaaaaaaaaatt Daaaaaamon"

It's gotta be true - you just read it on the inturdnetz


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## awesometown

I appreciate the editorializing of velonews:

"Besides being too long of a list to qualify with UCI rules for Continental registered teams, the list was too long in the tooth. The UCI wants Continental (as opposed to the more prestigious Continental Pro) teams to be development squads, not retirement leagues. So a majority of the riders must be younger than 28."

Ok at this point, I have to admit, this is going horribly wrong....


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## iliveonnitro

Isn't this good for publicity, though?

Fill your "bad ass" image with controversial characters, no matter how they're suppose to perform (or lack of, in a 1km crit), and your name is spread throughout the world.

How many Continental Euro teams can you name? None? 1?
How many Euros know of R&R? Everyone. I mean, Cippolini was on it...

Ball is probably balling or rolling (haha, bad puns) in the money, right now. We can laugh at him, but in reality, he's probably laughing his way to the bank. He knows better than anyone that, for a cycling team, it's about sponsorship dollars more than anything.


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## cycledog81

Typical Velonews slant. I'm sure that there are a few guys on the "club" team that are silently pissed off that they got juggled so the Pro team had the right age requirements.
You would think that this year they would of got it right with the UCI and USCF. Best paid "club" team in the U.S. !! Pretty easy to pick out the "WTF's" on the Pro team because of their age. Feel sorry for the veteran riders that got stuck on the "club" team. Baldwin, Creed, Chadwick, Manion, Bahati, Grajales.


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## stevesbike

Quote "Ball is probably balling or rolling (haha, bad puns) in the money, right now. We can laugh at him, but in reality, he's probably laughing his way to the bank. He knows better than anyone that, for a cycling team, it's about sponsorship dollars more than anything."

Good logic, except Ball is the sponsor. I doubt he's selling many of his jeans from cycling exposure. He's losing money on cycling (except his cycling clothes line is doing OK) but likes the sport. He's also shopped a reality TV show (has the team house wired up) but no takers...


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## bigpinkt

One less rider on the club team. Ivan leaves
http://www.velonews.com/article/85804/ivan-dominguez-leaves-rock


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## awesometown

bigpinkt said:


> One less rider on the club team. Ivan leaves
> http://www.velonews.com/article/85804/ivan-dominguez-leaves-rock



I guess their national champ finally "earned" himself a slot...


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## Rosicky

And William Walker is on the official list of both Fuji and Rock Racing....


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## Eric_H

*Sad showing*

It seems as though for all of the alleged money behind Rock, there is a serious management gap on the team. The team having to juggle the roster around to circumvent the UCI Continental rules, when in reality they should have got their crap together and been licensed as Continental Pro. Not to mention that Dominguez now reports that he was only in talks with Rock and never actually had a contract with them.

Besides the much-reported slight of Bahati, it is pretty absurd that a guy like Glen Chadwick is technically racing as an amateur. The guy rode the Olympics and has many good stage-race victories to his name, and is one of the top domestic pro riders over the past 3 seasons. I'm sure he is wishing he was back at TT1.

From an outsider's point of view, it really seems as though Rock is struggling with the organization and details. Does Rock actually have a team manager other than Michael Ball? Not a director at the races, but someone overseeing the day-to-day team runnings. A lot of smaller teams underestimate the importance of this and the team owners get involved in trying to "run" the team. Problem is, they also have businesses to run as well so a lot of the cycling team details fall by the wayside. I am not bashing Rock, exactly the opposite - I think their involvement and passion for the sport is great in a time when lots of sponsors and businesses are gettting out of cycling. It would just be so much better for the image of the team and the sport in general if the operation was a little more polished and professional.


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## cycledog81

It appears that the UCI denied their request for a Pro Continental 
http://www.uci.ch/Modules/ENews/ENewsDetails.asp?id=NjEyNQ&MenuId=MTI2Mjc&BackLink=%2Ftemplates%2FUCI%2FUCI7%2Flayout.asp%3FMenuId%3DMTI2Mjc

Also Cyclingnews is reporting that the UCI is reconsidering teams that were denied, but Rock Racing did not ask for reconsideration. Go figure that one !
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/dec08/dec11news3
I can't imagine what the new Belgium DS's are starting to think at this point, but it can't be good for the morale of the team. Those guys on the "club" team are being paid very well, but there is no doubt that many of the them are silently very upset and pissed off, but happy that they have a job still. I think under the circumstances that with the right offer or opportunity there will be more of them leaving the "club" 
If MB wants his team to succeed then he better let the new guys run it and go back to sewing $ 300 jeans.


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## bigpinkt

This rolling train wreck may be over sooner then we think......Here to stay?


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## bigpinkt

http://www.velonews.com/article/86002/rock-racing-shutting-down
not looking good


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## suspectdevice

The salaries of 20+ riders and staff could buy a lot of coke and underaged hookers.


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## Susan Walker

suspectdevice said:


> The salaries of 20+ riders and staff could buy a lot of coke and underaged hookers.


Is Tommeke Boonen transferring to Rock Racing?!


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## CabDoctor

I just really hope they keep Creed.


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## WeakMite

They might all be gone now: http://www.velonews.com/article/86002/team-rock-racing-could-be-affected-as-rock--republic 

...with the economy slowing down like it is... I wouldn't want to be selling $280 jeans.

(Ooops sorry, I didn't see *bigpinkt*'s earlier mention of this)


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## ProRoad

No matter who they are, I hate to see money leaving the sport.


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## bigpinkt

ProRoad said:


> No matter who they are, I hate to see money leaving the sport.


True. On the good side Ball has been telling riders that he is going to honor all rider contracts.....but then he also told them they would be riding the Giro this year so his word is not worth much.


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## Guest

bigpinkt said:


> True. On the good side Ball has been telling riders that he is going to honor all rider contracts.....but then he also told them they would be riding the Giro this year so his word is not worth much.


I think they were all under the impression they were on the continental team as well, I doubt many of them knew they were being placed on a club team.


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## iliveonnitro

They aren't going under. Expect bigger cuts for 2010, though.


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## CabDoctor

I think we're all missing the big picture here, namely what we can do to help. We, as the RR fan base, must do what every it takes to buy as many pairs of $280 R&R jeans to keep our team large and in charge. I personally will be buying the "Floyd" jeans in outlaw blue to do my part 










https://shop.rockandrepublic.com/Floyd_in_Outlaw_Blue/pd/np/102/p/1359.html


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## Dank

What about Santa?


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## CabDoctor

Dank said:


> What about Santa?


He's races CX. He likes the snow


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## SlowBikeRacer

Looks like the old Jordache Jeans from the 80s...


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## Guest

SlowBikeRacer said:


> Looks like the old Jordache Jeans from the 80s...



The Rock jeans are heinous, I hope the team survives but I'll stick to Levi's (jeans not Leipheimer).


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## moonmoth

iliveonnitro said:


> They aren't going under. Expect bigger cuts for 2010, though.


Strong rumors that they _*will not*_ be around much longer. I hope this is not true.


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## iliveonnitro

kytyree said:


> The Rock jeans are heinous, I hope the team survives but I'll stick to Levi's (jeans not Leipheimer).


Really? Levi's? Man you can do so much better than that.

Quality jeans are the sh*t, especially as a cyclist. $75, minimum. Look for sales on $120-150 jeans.


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## Guest

iliveonnitro said:


> Really? Levi's? Man you can do so much better than that.
> 
> Quality jeans are the sh*t, especially as a cyclist. $75, minimum. Look for sales on $120-150 jeans.


I'm in military, the only civilian clothes I wear on a daily basis are cycling related, my jeans are all at least 10 years old.:blush2:


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## bmxhacksaw

Faded Glory baby. $12 a pair.


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## moonmoth

bmxhacksaw said:


> Faded Glory baby. $12 a pair.


Exactly.

K-Mart Rustler's at $10. No, they won't get you past the velvet ropes at your local trendy dance club, but who cares - they last forever.

Save your bucks on your denim, so that you can buy cycling gear.


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## bigpinkt

Baden Cook has left Rock. He is signing with Vacansoleil


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## moonmoth

bigpinkt said:


> Baden Cook has left Rock. He is signing with Vacansoleil


Is that the best Cooke can do? Vacansoleil won't be in any real races until 2010, and no big ones until at least 2011. Talk about a guy that has been bounced around during what should have been the highlight years of his career: Unibet, Barloworld, Rock, and now Vacansoleil.


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## Creakyknees

I finally got to read "Dog in a hat" and this all makes perfect sense now.


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## bigpinkt

Rudy is not going to be DS . The UCI turned down his license application


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## crit_specialist

Are the Rock stars training for TOC? Has anyone seen Tyler Hamilton or Oscar Sevilla lately?

If it was going to fold I thought it would be news by now. Anyone know any rumors worth spreading about their future?


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## Kris Flatlander

Creakyknees said:


> I finally got to read "Dog in a hat" and this all makes perfect sense now.


Fill us in? Cliff's Notes


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## Tumbleweed

RR sent a team to Australia for the Jayco series.


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## Mootsie

*6 months and its over*

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2009/jan09/jan04news

Sounds like the riders are screwed in 6 months.


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## JSR

That answers a few questions, doesn't it?


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## ProRoad

pretty amazing. From what Ball has said in the past (I will make it myself, and better than you) I doubt if there is an outside sponsor that will save him.

I feel sorry for his guys.
B


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## PaleAleYum

*You, Mr Ball, are a BLOWHARD*

Your word is worthless. You truly took your marketing lessons straight from Hollywood. All show and no substance. You promise the world to your riders, but "at the end of the day" will hang them out to dry. You'll move on and blame the cycling community for your departure.

You promised your riders: a professionally run team - a better way to run a cycling team-
everyone else was doing it wrong, your were smarter than all the rest. What you delivered was a house of cards.  Ever thought of a career in politics when you are done with the jeans business?

Everything you touch turns to s**t

And for all of the Mr Ball apologists out there, don't blame the economy for the demise of RR. It is tough out there, and will get tougher. But, who in their right minds would pour their company's money in to the quagmire that Mr Ball has *personally* created.

At least start being honest with your riders. They had few options before the season. They will have almost no options in another month.


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## shorelocal

Team kit sits at 25% off right now on their site ... how long 'til it will be going for 75% off?


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## Rosicky

Austin Carroll leaves the team too he´ll ride for BMC this season
http://iamaustincarroll.wordpress.com/


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## ultimobici

Certainly makes those double page "Hers to Stay" adverts look very stupid.


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## TurboTurtle

Does this mean that I should quit waiting for the Rock carbon wheels? - TF


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## CabDoctor

Since Rudy is out, maybe they can get John Wordin as DS. That might attract some sponsors


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## bigpinkt

http://nymag.com/daily/fashion/2007/02/the_collection_for_prostitutes_weve_all_been_waiting_for.html

"The Collection for Prostitutes We've All Been Waiting For"

It looks like the fashion world thinks Ball is clueless as well


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## lookrider

bigpinkt said:


> http://nymag.com/daily/fashion/2007/02/the_collection_for_prostitutes_weve_all_been_waiting_for.html
> 
> "The Collection for Prostitutes We've All Been Waiting For"
> 
> It looks like the fashion world thinks Ball is clueless as well


Yeah but Ball is a wh0re anyway and it takes one to know one. 

Have you noticed what young girls are wearing these days?

You can't tell if they _are_ prostitutes or not. I'm sure he'll make a lot of money....:thumbsup:


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