# Hasa Frame 950g $479?



## blazer

Has anyone seen, heard, or purchased one of these frames. For $479 and 950g they looked interesting. Thanks for any input.


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## raymonda

I just bought one and will build it up over the winter.


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## blazer

Have you already received the frame? If so can you elaborate on it's quality and looks.


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## raymonda

Nope. But it should be here within a week or two and I'll report on the progress. I took a chance, since the price was right. Other Hasa frame have a good reputation, so we'll see how it goes.

I've been wanting to build up a carbon bike for a while, so this seemed like a good opportunity. I'll most likely go with Campy Record/Chorus 10 speed, zero Gravity brakes and AC 420 wheels. Much like my Litespeed.

It'll be a fun project.


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## FatTireFred

I can has a frame? 
looks like a perfect candidate for some custom decals


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## raymonda

That's what I was thinking and have been trying to come up with something.

Ray


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## Snakebitten

Wow. Thats cheaper and lighter than the Immortal frame I have. Both are HM carbon. Hmmmmm.


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## FakeName

whow now, your getting me all rialed up here. I have been a casual rider from mtn bike to road bike, and one thing i have *always* have wanted to do, is build up a bike from scratch.

And now i see a frame that is cheap enough to do it?

Raymonda I deffently look forward to hearing you report on it.


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## teffisk

Snakebitten said:


> Wow. Thats cheaper and lighter than the Immortal frame I have. Both are HM carbon. Hmmmmm.


And it doesn't look like doodoo


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## Snakebitten

teffisk said:


> And it doesn't look like doodoo


LOL...Im not brand loyal. I actually have my eye on a Trek 06 Madone 5.2 frame right now. I think it looks better than this Hasa for a few hundered more or I would jump on this.


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## ilpirati

The location of the seller is Taiwan...Most of the carbon frames are made in Tw. Most european and US frame builders manufacture their carbon frames there...often more than one brand is manufactured by the same factory . IMO taiwanese builders have lots of experience in carbon, so you get a quality frame at a decent price...but no famous brand stickers. A friend of mine bought from Taiwan a pair of no-name full carbon tubular wheelset at about 1200g with 500$. after 1 year and numerous races the wheels are in one piece:thumbsup:


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## dynamic_e

Wow, lots of asian CF frames popping up on ebay.


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## lalahsghost

Tell me about it too! The deal with my LBS and Cannondale fell short, now I'm tempted to get one of these...


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## Scuzzo

no fork? not a great deal.


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## lalahsghost

Scuzzo said:


> no fork? not a great deal.


$99 + $10 shipping, or was that sarcasm?









https://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Hasa-full-...photoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262


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## DIRT BOY

Nice frame and I am tempted. BUT SCOTT bikes CF bikes are not from Taiwan, but China. The factory makes SCOTT and Cervelo ONLY.

SCOTT Aluminum bikes are also made in China by somone who make other aluminum frames. So his info is not right.

Regardless it looks like a quality frame form of of the main Taiwan factories. It's probaly a top notch frame. Let's us know when it arrrives.


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## dynamic_e

Interesting, Cervelo CF bikes are made in China?


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## lalahsghost

I've been talking to people on ebay who have purchased their bikes, and they say the rivets and brake/derailleur housing stops arrived with shoddy paint jobs. The braze-on (riveted) front derailleur attachment leaves things to be desired. One person stated that the left dropout and his bottom bracket face had laquer/clearcoat on it. Not a big deal for the price, right?

I'm still excited for a formal review of the bike, and still saving up to buy one.
Here are some photos!
















(Nearly same setup as me! All black ninjabike!) :thumbsup: 
Here are some photos that someone emailed to me. I like to do research on things that I 
don't know!
There was a conflict of visual info, and itsall4sports said that they do no longer have the forks with the HASA decal.


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## lalahsghost

OOH! they also have this new, (what reminds me of the specialized roubaix frame, but probably isn't) frame that is $10 more:


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## DIRT BOY

dynamic_e said:


> Interesting, Cervelo CF bikes are made in China?


Yes, Mainland China with SCOTT.


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## fabriciom

Any news updates on this? I also would like to buy the Scott CR1 replica they sell.

-Thanks


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## lalahsghost

fabriciom said:


> Any news updates on this? I also would like to buy the Scott CR1 replica they sell.
> 
> -Thanks


Until whoever it was that said they were doing a review does a thorough review... your best bet is to contact people who bought the bike off the seller and try to ask them any questions possible. I've had really good responses from many people this way.


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## fabriciom

lalahsghost said:


> Until whoever it was that said they were doing a review does a thorough review... your best bet is to contact people who bought the bike off the seller and try to ask them any questions possible. I've had really good responses from many people this way.


I'm interested in this frame









and this frame









The deal is the first one does not have a 54cm size which is me. The second one is not as nice looking but it weights less. It does have a 54cm size. 

Happen to have any more photos of the finished product? 

-Thanks


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## yakky

There are Felt F5 frames to be had on Ebay for $750, they include frame, fork, headset, seatpost and clamp, not a bad deal for a name brand considering these are $479.


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## fabriciom

yakky said:


> There are Felt F5 frames to be had on Ebay for $750, they include frame, fork, headset, seatpost and clamp, not a bad deal for a name brand considering these are $479.


Sorry not a Felt fan. Also I live in Spain and shipping from the US would kill me.

-Cheers


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## yakky

Yeah, shipping would kill the deal for you, but to be frank, I'm not a fan of surprises which is why I went with Felt, at least they felt good enough about the bike to stamp their name on it. I can't say I've had much luck with unbranded bike stuff.


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## fabriciom

yakky said:


> Yeah, shipping would kill the deal for you, but to be frank, I'm not a fan of surprises which is why I went with Felt, at least they felt good enough about the bike to stamp their name on it. I can't say I've had much luck with unbranded bike stuff.


Im afraid of the quality because I do ride through rough traffic (40-50km/hr) and I already have a broken clavicle and a peace of titanium holding my left arm on my shoulder. But I would still not buy a Felt. Sorry no likie. My dream bike would be a Scott Addict frame with other "stuff". Also like the new Orbea Orca, but its heavier than the Addict frame.

-Cheers


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## lalahsghost

fabriciom said:


> I'm interested in this frame and this frame.
> 
> The deal is the first one does not have a 54cm size which is me. The second one is not as nice looking but it weights less. It does have a 54cm size.
> 
> Happen to have any more photos of the finished product?
> 
> -Thanks


Sorry. The only data/pics I have are the data/pics that I have posted here. Like I stated, go onto ebay, look at the feedback for the seller and contact/anybody everybody who has left feedback for items that you want.


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## fabriciom

lalahsghost said:


> Sorry. The only data/pics I have are the data/pics that I have posted here. Like I stated, go onto ebay, look at the feedback for the seller and contact/anybody everybody who has left feedback for items that you want.


Did that and the seller sent me to the Karbona website. Which has the same looking frames but the weight they report is totally different than what this guy has on ebay.


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## yakky

fabriciom said:


> Im afraid of the quality because I do ride through rough traffic (40-50km/hr) and I already have a broken clavicle and a peace of titanium holding my left arm on my shoulder. But I would still not buy a Felt. Sorry no likie. My dream bike would be a Scott Addict frame with other "stuff". Also like the new Orbea Orca, but its heavier than the Addict frame.
> 
> -Cheers


By no means am I saying you should get a felt if you don't like them. I'm just saying be careful with something that has no name, especially when your only recourse is to go back to an ebay seller that may or may not be there, and in fact, isn't even in the same country as you are. You pretty much are buying an unknown product AS-IS.


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## lalahsghost

fabriciom said:


> Did that and the seller sent me to the Karbona website. Which has the same looking frames but the weight they report is totally different than what this guy has on ebay.


There is a Hasa USA and a HASA taiwan based site.
Even while posting this, I haven't checked them out: 
http://www.hasabike.com.tw/
http://www.hasausa.com/


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## fabriciom

lalahsghost said:


> There is a Hasa USA and a HASA taiwan based site.
> Even while posting this, I haven't checked them out:
> http://www.hasabike.com.tw/
> http://www.hasausa.com/



I'll do the same as you and wait for the full report that is being prepared. I just hope the person doing it weights the frame and the fork also.

-Cheers


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## blazer

I have ordered a frame and fork. It should be here in the next week or so. I have a digital scale and will post pics and weights once I recieve them.


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## fabriciom

blazer said:


> I have ordered a frame and fork. It should be here in the next week or so. I have a digital scale and will post pics and weights once I recieve them.


Hey blazer thanks for taking on the task. Just curious. What frame did you order? Also from the same ebay person posted on the first post?

-Cheers


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## blazer

I ordered the frame in the original post from the same guy on Ebay in Tawain. I chose the M @ 950 grams. I corresponded to the guy in UK who provided the additional pics on this thread. He didn't purchase the same frame as I did but he seemed happy with the quality. I'll see in the next week whether I made a good decision or not.


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## lalahsghost

blazer said:


> I ordered the frame in the original post from the same guy on Ebay in Tawain. I chose the M @ 950 grams. I corresponded to the guy in UK who provided the additional pics on this thread. He didn't purchase the same frame as I did but he seemed happy with the quality. I'll see in the next week whether I made a good decision or not.


Hallelujah! Thanks for well... er... 'taking one for the team'? I just had to use that saying


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## blazer

lalahsghost - I clicked on your budget spreadsheet. I have an almost identical layout with different compenents. I see you budgeted $629 for frame and fork. If you pay him directly through Paypal without Ebay he'll take 5% off plus through in and FSA headset and seatpost clamp. My total price for frame, fork, headset, clamp, and shipping was $598.


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## farva

lalahsghost said:


> $99 + $10 shipping, or was that sarcasm?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Hasa-full-...photoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262


I purchased an identical fork to this on ebay that was advertised to be a Scott Addict SL fork. It had legit looking Scott decals & everything. Clearly it was a fake, as the real addict fork has all carbon construction. The one I got had an aluminum crown like the one pictured. The shape & dropout are also look identical to this. I wound up using it on my beater bike as rode fine & was not too heavy. Since it was a knock off, I decided to sand the finish/stickers off & repaint it to match my frame.


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## raymonda

My frame came the other day. I got a small frame and the cosmetics were good. The seat post clamp that came with it seemed fine and weighed 20 grams, however, I bought a Campy to replace it. The headset that came with it was actually two differant sizes combined together, so that had to be replaced.

I brought the frame to my favorite shop to check the bottom bracket shell and head set races. Surprisingly all were very good. A slight shave came off the bottom bracket but was most likely needed due to a bit of over spray from the clear coat.

I checked the rear triangle and it was spot on. 

After weighing it, it came in @ 1000grams or 60 grams over specified. I consider this with in spec.

The build is going to be a project, therefore I'll post pictures when it is done and give a full ride report, too.

BTW, I put an Easton EC90SLX fork on it, so I can't tell you anything about the Hasa fork.

Ray


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## enac

Questions: What sized Bottom bracket is needed? Italian or English??

and What sized headset is needed?


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## lalahsghost

enac said:


> Questions: What sized Bottom bracket is needed? Italian or English??
> 
> and What sized headset is needed?


Directly from the seller
[QUOTE="itsall4sports']Dear XXXXXX,

Hi, XXXXX, we will always sell this frame by the end of this frame, don't worry, take your time;
we will provide free matching headset and seatpost clamp for everyone who buy our frames;
the BB is English standard and the seatpost is 31.6mm
Thanks[/QUOTE]
I think Raymonda will be able to tell you the headset question though...



raymonda said:


> My frame came the other day. I got a small frame and the cosmetics were good. The seat post clamp that came with it seemed fine and weighed 20 grams, however, I bought a Campy to replace it. The headset that came with it was actually two differant sizes combined together, so that had to be replaced.
> 
> I brought the frame to my favorite shop to check the bottom bracket shell and head set races. Surprisingly all were very good. A slight shave came off the bottom bracket but was most likely needed due to a bit of over spray from the clear coat.
> 
> I checked the rear triangle and it was spot on.
> 
> After weighing it, it came in @ 1000grams or 60 grams over specified. I consider this with in spec.
> 
> The build is going to be a project, therefore I'll post pictures when it is done and give a full ride report, too.
> 
> BTW, I put an Easton EC90SLX fork on it, so I can't tell you anything about the Hasa fork.
> 
> Ray


Pics or it doesn't exist.


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## raymonda

It takes 1 1/8" integrated headset.

I'm not posting any pictures yet because there is nothing to see other than the same nude frame that has already been posted. As I build it I will post but i don't want to waste my time or yours.

Ray


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## spinerguy

I've ordered frame and fork too. Actually I was a bit worried about tt slope, but judging from lalahsghost full assembled pics looks mighty fine! 

Glad I pull the trigger on this budget carbon beauty. Funny that someone mentioned custom decals because I'm evaluating some possibilities. Would "Argon 18" in white outline be a little too much?  

Yes, it's also from the seller. According to him shipment will be delayed for about a week because of holidays, so I'm seating down this one for 3 weeks.


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## Quest08

Pics or it doesn't exist.[/QUOTE]

I see this challenge on several of the RBR forums. Is there a general assumption that the OP is lying unless photos are provided? I would like to see photos as well but I don't think OPs are full of bull if photos are absent.


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## lalahsghost

Quest08 said:


> Pics or it doesn't exist.
> 
> 
> 
> I see this challenge on several of the RBR forums. Is there a general assumption that the OP is lying unless photos are provided? I would like to see photos as well but I don't think OPs are full of bull if photos are absent.
Click to expand...

I use it as a term that ups-the-ante to get photos out of someone. The fifth grade equivalent of calling a boy a girlscout until he does the thing you dared him to do. Other people.... dunno... 

It originated from 4chan.org when someone said they boned a really hot or ugly girl and bragged about it, or just got some new cool thing.


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## raymonda

As I stated, to post a picture of a nude frame that has already be posted is rediculous. Save the "post pictures" for when it is valid. Honestly, were you just dying to use that term or what?

I will post pictures as the build progresses. Mean while if you want to see what the nude frame looks like scroll to the top.


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## Quest08

lalahsghost said:


> I use it as a term that ups-the-ante to get photos out of someone. The fifth grade equivalent of calling a boy a girlscout until he does the thing you dared him to do. Other people.... dunno...
> 
> It originated from 4chan.org when someone said they boned a really hot or ugly girl and bragged about it, or just got some new cool thing.


Thanks, now I understand:thumbsup:


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## tbong27

Has anyone else bought these frames, would like to see more builds. Thinking of gettting em myself


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## lalahsghost

tbong27 said:


> Has anyone else bought these frames, would like to see more builds. Thinking of gettting em myself


If you're willing to wait 'til christmas, I'll have everything but stem and seatpost


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## Spezzoto

*frames*



lalahsghost said:


> There is a Hasa USA and a HASA taiwan based site.
> Even while posting this, I haven't checked them out:
> http://www.hasabike.com.tw/
> http://www.hasausa.com/


Are the frames from eBay the same frames from this two websites? Why is this person selling them as Hasa unpainted? I wonder if is the same person that sell them to Hasa to have them painted and then post them on the websites above? Because if is not I do not think is etical for the same guy that sell the frames to Hasa TW or Hasa USA to be selling them cheaper.


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## blazer

I should have mine built in two weeks. I am awaiting a RED group which is coming from Australia. I recieved the frame last week. I am pleased with the cosmetics but have not taken it to the shop to have it looked over structurally. Mine came in at 1006g on the frame and 378g on the fork. Both of those numbers are about 50g higher than the Ebay site claims. I will post pics once it's complete. For anyone who cares, the buildup will be the following:
HASA Frame and Fork
SRAM RED Group
Ritchey WCS Carbon Stem, Handlebars, and Seatpost
Reynolds Assualt Wheelset
Kenda Kalienete Tires
Specialized Toupe Saddle

I'm hoping it will come in around 15lbs with the carbon clinchers.


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## tbong27

schweet .. But why from Australia?? I live here and the parts cost wayyyyyyy too much.. I m sourcing my parts from mostly overseas in USD.. And the exchange rate has been unkind lately  

Hope to see your built and your comments on the frame!
I saw another frame for only 280Usd thereabouts from hongkong.. wonder if its any good.. A bit scared to buy from the seller cos he cant seem to answer anything i ask him..


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## blazer

I purchased from Australia due to cost. The seller was selling the full group for $1680AUD which equated to $1097 USD. That was the cheapest I could find it. I beleive he is still selling them on Ebay. (AzzuriBikes) I'll let you know how the build goes.


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## tbong27

:O i forgot, u got the better end of the stick... lol


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## raymonda

Just this minute I finished the tentative build and will post some pics tomorrow. But, a few notes regarding the build. 

As stated prior, the IHs went in smoothly as well as the bottom bracket cups. However, the replaceable rear deraillier hanger was tweaked and need to be starightened. Fortunately I have a Park tool for straightening hangers. Also the flimsy plate on the NDS came off as I secured the rear wheel. I'm going to leave it off. I will not over tightened the QR so as to not damage the carbon drop out, therefore I not too worried about it.

Maybe I can get in a quick ride tomorrow to test it out. If not it will have to wait until Friday. But, in general, it looks nice. Again, I'll try to post some pic tomorrow.


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## raymonda

I decided to bond the plate back on since it provided another 1 mm to the drop out on the NDS. 

Also, I forgot to mention, I had to file the replacable rear rerailier hanger bolt so that the cassette lock ring was not rubbing. I took around .3-.5 mm off.


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## raymonda

I just got back from a short but telling ride and I have nothing significant to point out. However, here are a few points of interests:

1) It tracks straight and is well balanced. 

a) On the flats with my hands off the bars it carves true.
b) Down hill at around 35 miles an hour and my hands off the bars it tracks true without any wobbles.
c) Going straight and turning your head to the left or right did not effect my forward line.

2) Going down hill at 40plus it was stable.

3) Hammering out of the saddle in my 53/12 did not cause any chain rub with my front deraillier set 1mm from the chain.

4) The wheel base seems a bit longer than my litespeed, I'll have to measure it, so, although it was stable it didn't seem as quick in the turns as my LS. (some call the LS nervous, I call them quick) This isn't a critism but due to this it might be better set up for RR than tight crits. 

5) The sloping TT is a bit differant feel than my tradition LS and other bikes. It felt a bit strange at first but I assume I'll get use to it and it didn't seem to effect the performance.

6) Okay, here is something that was difficult to measure; It was quiet, tight and reponsive to my pedal strokes. The bottom bracket, head tube and ST/TT/ST junction all seemed to be working well together and made for an enjoyable short ride.

I plan on giving it a better work out tomorrow and Sunday and will have better notes on the performance. In general, though, it rode well going up, down and on the flats.

Ray


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## DIRT BOY

raymonda said:


> b) Down hill at around 35 miles an hour and my hands off the bars it tracks true without any wobbles.


You went 35mph downhill with no hands? :shocked:ut:


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## PlasticMotif

Useless w/o pics.


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## raymonda

Sure. I've been riding for a while and I am very comfortable with my skills. You can take your hands off the bars and keep them close at the same time. I needed to see if there was any type of allignment problems and by slowly loosening your grip and slowly lifting your hands off the bars it will give you a good indication of the trueness off the build.

No big deal in my book, but I wouldn't recommend it for others.


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## raymonda

LOL:thumbsup: 

Anyway, I just took some pic of the bike, not me going down hill no handed, and will have them up in a couple of hours.


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## Argentius

Ohmigosh that is ugly.


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## raymonda

As promised here are some shots. I tried to get some closer pictures of the tubes so that the multi-demension and tapers could be seen.


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## raymonda

More shots.


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## raymonda

Last few.


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## OneGear

nice looking bike, and a super clean build. I like. it's a bit too glossy for me though. I'm sure you knew what you were doing in regards to sizing, but it looks like you intended to buy it 2 sizes smaller! PRO 

quite a few spacers however, but i'm sure you'll fix it once you're dialed in. sweet bike.


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## AlexCad5

OneGear
quite a few spacers however said:


> Obviously he knew the length of top tube he needs (to get proper reach) but the head tube wasn't long enough, so he also needs the spacers (look at the huge drop!) Clearly the frame isn't a perfect fit.
> I'd think he would do better with a compact/ shallow drop bar, given the drop he's got. There must be a significant strain on the upper back and neck.
> Fit is way more important than appealing to the stem and spacer police.
> Nice build!


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## raymonda

Thanks for the thoughts on the build and comments.

This is a small frame with a TT around 53cm. I usually ride a 51.5 to 52.5 TT. The bar is a 3T Prima 199, which is not a big or large bar. I have a 20mm and 10mm of spacers below the bar, certainly not considered to be a lot. Easton forks can accept 50mm. The stem is 120mm. I set this bike up so that I am in the same position I am on my other 2 RB, which is basically the same position I have been riding over the past 20 years, albeit, handle bars up a bit.

I will be replacing the wheels with something a bit lighter in the future. This set came off my LS.


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## peyo

AlexCad5 said:


> Fit is way more important than appealing to the stem and spacer police.


+1

Have you had the chance to weigh the bike in its finished state?


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## raymonda

Yep. As pictured, with pedal and cages, it weighs 14.75lb.


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## raymonda

This frame comes in 3 sizes; small, medium and large. I have attached the size specs for each frame. As you can see, a small frmae is the only frame that would fit me. I can not be put on a frame that has a 54.5 CM TT and 145mm HT. I would not be able to get the correct position. Sure the seat tube may have looked more traditional, as opposed to a radically sloping TT but the rest would have been problematic and a waste of time and $.


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## lalahsghost

Raymonda - thank you so much for the photos and continuing data on these (your) hasa frame! I'm excited!


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## OneGear

AlexCad5 said:


> Obviously he knew the length of top tube he needs (to get proper reach) but the head tube wasn't long enough, so he also needs the spacers (look at the huge drop!) Clearly the frame isn't a perfect fit.
> I'd think he would do better with a compact/ shallow drop bar, given the drop he's got. There must be a significant strain on the upper back and neck.
> Fit is way more important than appealing to the stem and spacer police.
> Nice build!


I know, but gave him the benefit of the doubt. 

I put it in the most friendly way possible for a reason. Nobody likes their sizing and fitting stomped on after posting their new bike build, especially when it's not dialed in completely yet.


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## AlexCad5

I'm making the assumption your arms are fairly long for you body length given your tolerance for your drop. Still, I'm sure you would do better with the size medium and used a 100-105 mm stem. That would give you the same reach yet give you 2cm more head tube. I'd wager that getting your head up would improve your ride quality enormously. 

The 3t bars are not huge, 90mm reach and 139mm drop, but they are not small either, considering the size of the bike. Are you able to ride long term in the drops? Especially on long steep technical descents? Or do you tend to go back up on the hoods to rest your upper back, neck and shoulders. You could relatively cheaply pick up a medium, to check out which fits better, then ebay the frame that wasn't the better size for you.


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## tbong27

Thanks for sharing the pics! didnt realised but thats a realli short seat tube! hmm.. anyone knows a website where u can roughly calculate stem / handle bar measurements or just fitting in general? I m about 5'5 and my current bike has a 56 cm seat tube and 57 cm top tube.. lol..


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## raymonda

Alex,

I hate to say this but you are comin up with a solution to a problem that doesn't exsist. I ride 200-300 miles a week during the season for 30-100 mile rides and never had a problem with my neck or back, or for that matter getting in the drops. I not sure where you got the idea that was a problem.

Thanks anway!


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## raymonda

Took it on a second ride today. Just a short 20 miles of rolling hills. Nothing new to report, as it seems to ride about the same as my initial report.

Sunday I'll try to get it out for a 40 mile ride with some serious climbs.


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## Kuma601

Looks nice built up.  That sure is a sloping TT.


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## AlexCad5

tbong27 said:


> Thanks for sharing the pics! didnt realised but thats a realli short seat tube! hmm.. anyone knows a website where u can roughly calculate stem / handle bar measurements or just fitting in general? I m about 5'5 and my current bike has a 56 cm seat tube and 57 cm top tube.. lol..



That's a really big bike for someone 5'5" I'd think that Hasa small would fit you pretty well.


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## AlexCad5

raymonda said:


> Alex,
> 
> I hate to say this but you are comin up with a solution to a problem that doesn't exsist. I ride 200-300 miles a week during the season for 30-100 mile rides and never had a problem with my neck or back, or for that matter getting in the drops. I not sure where you got the idea that was a problem.
> 
> Thanks anway!


 But don't you agree you could get the same fit with the next size up, plus give you even more flexibility in fit? I see a 120mm stem on a smaller sized frame as an extreme length. Not to mention how tall that seat post is extended?
Believe me, I'm all over getting the smallest bike that fits, but looking at your set up you could conceivably even go for a large and make it work. You haven't said, but I bet you are at least 5'10" if not taller. 
I'm not in any way insisting that your bike doesn't fit you. I'm just considering the options, hypothetically. In terms of fit, these are just things to muse over. Things that I continually ask myself about my own fit. 
Obviously, you are a very experienced rider, and you put a ton of miles on a bike. If it works, there is no arguing with that.


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## OneGear

I agree with alex, you probably could have gotten away going one size up, but you clearly chose what you chose and knew what you wanted. It looks great, and probably rides great. How tall are you btw?

tbong.. who fitted you?! 5'5' on a 56cm and 57cm tt?!


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## tbong27

heh.. i'd have to say it was myself. Initially was just planning on buying a cheapo road bike just for travelling to uni( never thought about fit at all). Then cycling grew on me and now am thinking of upgrading to a bike that fits.. its about 150 dollars brand new, 14 KILOS and Climbs hills like a slug .. 

so yeah.. want some opinion on fit.. I'd think goin for a 100mm stem and 40cm width handle bar will be a good start..


----------



## raymonda

Tbong-

You're 2 or so inches shorter than me, so I would say this frame would fit you well and would agree that if you went with it a 90-100mm stem would be about right. 40cm bars are pretty narrow, though. But, I asuume you know what feels right to you.


----------



## tbong27

haha actually i m not very sure, but i;d assume it would be around shoulder width for handle bars.. any idea abt 52st and 53tt frames will fit 5'5? i found a 2006 52cm madone 5.2 pro frame for about 500 aud which is cheaper than a hasa frame..thanks.. 

great forum with lots of nice ppl


----------



## raymonda

Shoulder width is correct. 53 TT depends on your torso but I would say it may be a bit too big.


----------



## raymonda

OneGear said:


> I agree with alex, you probably could have gotten away going one size up, but you clearly chose what you chose and knew what you wanted. It looks great, and probably rides great. How tall are you btw?
> 
> I'm 5'7 1/2" with short legs. My inseam is around 29-30" and my torso is medium to a bit bigger than average for my size. As I posted earlier, these frames come in 3 sizes and I selected the small due to the TT being around 53CM with a head tube of 120mm. The next one up had a TT of 54.5 and HT145, indicating that it was much too large for me.
> 
> If you compare these specs to other bikes you will notice that the small frame is roughly equal to a 50-52cm standard ST, which is my size.
> 
> You shouldn't get hung up on the sloping TT but rather look at the over all fit. As for spacers, 30mm of stack is nothing radical and actually falls midway in the spacer department. Most forks can take almost double that.


----------



## OneGear

raymonda said:


> OneGear said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with alex, you probably could have gotten away going one size up, but you clearly chose what you chose and knew what you wanted. It looks great, and probably rides great. How tall are you btw?
> 
> I'm 5'7 1/2" with short legs. My inseam is around 29-30" and my torso is medium to a bit bigger than average for my size. As I posted earlier, these frames come in 3 sizes and I selected the small due to the TT being around 53CM with a head tube of 120mm. The next one up had a TT of 54.5 and HT145, indicating that it was much too large for me.
> 
> If you compare these specs to other bikes you will notice that the small frame is roughly equal to a 50-52cm standard ST, which is my size.
> 
> You shouldn't get hung up on the sloping TT but rather look at the over all fit. As for spacers, 30mm of stack is nothing radical and actually falls midway in the spacer department. Most forks can take almost double that.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, didn't know they only come in 3 sizes. Probably missed that part. Numbers sound about right, but you said it rides nice so who cares. the rear triangle looks really small which is probably what threw me off.
Click to expand...


----------



## peter feng

A friend of mine bought a HASA frame in Taiwan for under $300 US Dollars.


----------



## raymonda

Cabon or aluminum?


----------



## lalahsghost

Oh, raymonda - another question: itsall4sports stated that the bike came with a seatpost and a headset... Confirm/Deny? and if so, what did you think of these "por gratis" items?


----------



## peter feng

He bought a full carbon frame for under $300 US DOLLARS.


----------



## raymonda

lalahsghost said:


> Oh, raymonda - another question: itsall4sports stated that the bike came with a seatpost and a headset... Confirm/Deny? and if so, what did you think of these "por gratis" items?


It came with both. The HS came with the wrong size top cap race, so I had to buy another HS. The Clamp was fine and weighed a reasonable 20grams but I replaced it anyways.


----------



## frdfandc

Nice build up. Too bad they don't make it in a 58cm to fit me (6'2")


I was just thinking about the weave of that frame and it is almost exactly like the GT Zaskar and Marathon Team frame.


----------



## DIRT BOY

raymonda said:


> Alex,
> 
> I hate to say this but you are comin up with a solution to a problem that doesn't exsist. I ride 200-300 miles a week during the season for 30-100 mile rides and never had a problem with my neck or back, or for that matter getting in the drops. I not sure where you got the idea that was a problem.
> 
> Thanks anway!


raymonda, Alex is kinda right. Wether you think there is a problem or not, a bigger frame with a smaller stem would give you tyhe same fit on a frame that is more suited to the size you should be on. There are THOUSANDS of people riding bikes and fits that feel fine, no precived issues, etc that are actually not fit properly and possibly could do better.

Now I know a lot of WW and racers that go with a smaller frame and longer stem and post to save weight on the frame.

that's fine if you do get the frame/fit dialed in right. You might have doen this very well and that's great too.

But Alex point is vaild as is yours. It 2 schools of thought, that's it.

I prefer a smaller frame and longer stem on a traditional style frame so I have more standover. Compact road frames allow me to get a longer TT, and slighty smaller stem .

On my MTB, I prefer a smaller frame as well so manuverbility and weight.

So both styles can fit. Persoanlly on that bike if it was me, I would go with the bigger frame and shorter stem.

But that's me.

BTW, congrats on a nice build and hope it serves you well!!


----------



## DIRT BOY

raymonda said:


> This frame comes in 3 sizes; small, medium and large. I have attached the size specs for each frame. As you can see, a small frmae is the only frame that would fit me. I can not be put on a frame that has a 54.5 CM TT and 145mm HT. I would not be able to get the correct position. Sure the seat tube may have looked more traditional, as opposed to a radically sloping TT but the rest would have been problematic and a waste of time and $.


Wow the Geom on that seems a bit weird. That IS a very short ST.


----------



## raymonda

The ETT of a large is 59cm long. That should be a good fit.


----------



## raymonda

After getting the bike out and generating a few more miles with varied terrain here is my summary report:

Pluses:

a) Relatively inexpensive
b) Attractive cosmetic carbon weaved that was laid down nicely
c) Sloping TT that stiffens frame.
d) Small sizes
e) Alignment was spot on.
f) Very little flex in the BB
g) No noticable flex in the HT juncture
h) No noticable flex in the rear Triangle.
i) Well balance ride quality
j) Responsive but not springy
k) Handles down hills well @ 50 mph
l) Corners fine
j) tracks true and holds a line
k) Carbon drop outs
l) relatively light (small 1000 grams) Full bike weighs 14.75lbs and will get down to close to 14 with new wheels.
j) Free from advertisement. You can decorate it as you wish or keep it stealth.
k) Clean lines. The frame is not clunky looking.
l) Multi-faceted tubes should make for a stronger frame

Minuses:
a) Replacable drop out needed to be straightened
b) Protective drop out plate on the ND side had to be rebonded
c) Clear coat was applied okay but not great. There was one barely noticable run.
d) Hanger bolt had to be filed so not to rub the cassette lockring bolt.
e) Headset came with the wrong top cup (basically a throw away anyway. The bearings and fork race were good and can be used as future replacements.)
f) Radically sloping TT can be visually distracting to some.
g) Only 3 sizes. S/M/L
h) Some folks may not like the high gloss finish. I don't mind.
i) Lack of prestige and pedigree

Ray


----------



## liqiangliu

thanks, Ray
your summary is so detailed and pertinence, have you ever get some ti components from that ebay seller? seems they got many of those, frame, stem, seatpost...


----------



## raymonda

No, but for the asking price they seem to be worth exploring.


----------



## lalahsghost

Just threw down $607 for http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Hasa-Full-C...hZ009QQcategoryZ56196QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

and 

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Hasa-Full-C...hZ017QQcategoryZ98084QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

including shipping 

No clue when I will expect it to be here.


----------



## marinipa

I was stated I need a 57 x 55 frame after measurement by a bike seller, should an L measure of this frame be good for me ?


----------



## marinipa

The bike shop measured me and stated that I need a 57 x 55 bike. Is the L measure ok for me ?


----------



## raymonda

It looks like the large would be too big and the medium too small.


----------



## tbong27

Good job taking the plunge Lalahghost  has it arrived yet? The exchange rate stinks! gonna sit out for a while


----------



## kr1zje

i bought the same frame as raymonda but in M size, now i have to only wait for frame, i will do full report with photos xD


----------



## lalahsghost

tbong27 said:


> Good job taking the plunge Lalahghost  has it arrived yet? The exchange rate stinks! gonna sit out for a while


Yes it has:









This one in a size 49 was received with the Hasa fork in the mail today. The headset that comes with it feels weird, and the seatpost clamp is supposedly an easton, but I doubt it and it doesn't fit anyways....

The bike as you see has a 12k weave exterior, and from what I can tell, it is actually 12k weave all the way through. My LBS owner and good friend also confirmed this. I brought it to my LBS just to see what he thought of it, and to see if it would fit me. I've mocked it up by putting a set of wheels on it, putting the fork on, with just the headset bearings (didn't want to have to tap the other pieces in) and placing a stem I borrowed to get a rough fit estimation. i'm 5'6" 29" inseam, and with a decent amout of extended seatpost and a 100mm stem, I think I will be fine. The frame looks TINY! it was a 51cm virtual top tube, and 49.5cm seat tube. the frame weighed 1300g on a digital scale, and the fork was 385. Thats what? 150g over? Not bad for the price really....

But back to the frame construction. You get what you pay for. It is going to ride well for the price, and the riveted parts are solid, but I still don't like the way they look in person. They had scuffs on the riveted cable holders all over. not a big deal, but aesthetically dissaponting. Time to pull out the testors model paint... The clear coat finish on the bike is thick, and 90% perfect. A few single grains of dirt/dust are in the finish and can be felt, but like I said $490 for a bike is a pretty good deal... The seatpost-holder is aluminum and goes down into the CF seattube roughy four or five inches. The bottom bracket also has pieces that goes into the beginning of the chainstays, and seat tube. It clearly isn't just a round bb-shell (which IMO is good). 

The headtube is the only thing that worries me. It is thin, and very thin at that. I know it would hold, but *if* this bike would fail in any way.... it would be there... You can see 12k weave inside the head tube, so it isn't just the outside. I know engineers usually apply different types of weave in the different layers in order to have a certain mixture of stiffness and vibration dampening. My bike shop said this is more than likely going to ride a lot like an aluminum bike due to the possible lack of this type of construction. The clearcoat is also extra-sloppy around the bottom bracket, inside the headtube where the cartridge bearings go, and around the dropouts. I felt like I was going to break the fork just trying to slide my wheel all the way into the dropout.

I will have more of a review later (my laptop literally blew up, 300 days of warranty left   ), and photos too. If I had to choose again, there's a 60% chance I would have bought something with a little more reviewer acceptance and name-brand trust/warranty behind it, but this bike will last me a while for my purposes, and 2009 rival & Neuvation wheels will flippin' sweet on it.


----------



## blazer

I finally got my bike built up today. Here's a picture for those that are considering purchasing one. The pic doesn't really reflect the bike since the flash on the camera over highlighted the 12k weave. In person, it looks like a solid black frame until you get close. The build is all SRAM Red, Ritchey Carbon WCS, and Reynolds clinchers. The completed riding weight with pedals and cage is 14lbs 14 oz. It's a size M


----------



## raymonda

blazer said:


> I finally got my bike built up today. Here's a picture for those that are considering purchasing one. The pic doesn't really reflect the bike since the flash on the camera over highlighted the 12k weave. In person, it looks like a solid black frame until you get close. The build is all SRAM Red, Ritchey Carbon WCS, and Reynolds clinchers. The completed riding weight with pedals and cage is 14lbs 14 oz. It's a size M



Looks great. I just has a custom sticker kit made up for mine and will post new pictures when I finish it. I would be interested to know how you like the fork since I put a EC90SLX on mine.
Let me know what you think about the ride when you get it out.


----------



## spinerguy

Crap! 

That's nice. I got my frame a few weeks back and after waiting a couple of weeks for my LBS mechanic to do the build up, he called and informs me that because front derailleur's brazing (tab) was riveted at a slight wrong angle he won't be able to make it work. 

Then I took it to another shop, same story for short. Right know I am trying to negotiate an exchange with the dude at Taiwan but communications on his side are slow. 

He keeps saying he can send me a new *derailleur attache*??! WTF! 

Don't get me wrong, frame looks quite nice but if it doesn't work, it's still a pos. 

Sorry about the rant but even I don't expect a $2,000 frameset quality I do expect a fully functional one. 

Buy it at your own risk.


----------



## cww180

Do you guys think this frame would be of about the same quality, its also from Taiwan and I was considering pulling the trigger on this one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Carbon-Fibe...14&_trkparms=72:1234|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318


----------



## lalahsghost

cww180 said:


> Do you guys think this frame would be of about the same quality, its also from Taiwan and I was considering pulling the trigger on this one.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Carbon-Fibe...14&_trkparms=72:1234|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318


From my observations, it is highly probable that that frame came from the same manufacturer as the itsall4sports frames. seat tube, rivetted items and derailleur hanger (which is the same as a trek mtn bike hanger) all look the same.


----------



## cww180

So for the money its probably worth a shot, he does not give a headset, seat clamp, or seat post though.


----------



## raymonda

Looks like a good opportunity for the price.


----------



## lalahsghost

Raymonda - Blazer - What size were the headsets that you guys used? The one provided with the frame just doesn't seem right (just like the incorrectly sized seatpost clamp... )


----------



## cww180

I would like to know what the actual standover height is on the small frame also.


----------



## raymonda

lalahsghost said:


> Raymonda - Blazer - What size were the headsets that you guys used? The one provided with the frame just doesn't seem right (just like the incorrectly sized seatpost clamp... )


I think the bearings were 42mm and 45 degrees, but it has been a few weeks since I installed them so my memory maybe incorrect. As I indicated in a prior post, the top cap race that came with mine was incorrectly sized, being the wrong angle, so I bought a CC IS2, which took care of the prpblem. The seat clamp was the right size bought I bought a Campy anyways.

Also, note the following:

1. Rear derailleur hanger had to be alligned
2. Reinforcement steal drop outs had to be rebonded. (I used some JB weld and would suggest you do the same because it is only a matter of time before they will come loose).

After taking care of these issues everything seems fine and the bike has ridden well. My buid up experience with this frame reminds me of the old days with Italian steel frames, where you had to prep every frame before building it up. Well, maybe not as much work as you the old day but certainly some work had to go into this fraame during the build up process.


----------



## raymonda

cww180 said:


> I would like to know what the actual standover height is on the small frame also.


Keep in mind that this is a compact frame so the stand over will vary depending on where you measure it. I measured it around the center of the top tube, or where you would actually be standing when getting off your saddle and standing over the bike;

28.25 inches or 71.75 cm


----------



## lalahsghost

Here's some photos of my semi-done frame. I wanted to get a few shots pre-build, but meh...

I did a lot of paining. I bought some automotive repair paint and went over the rivets and painted them black, and any of the scuffed cable holders. I also painted my dérailleur hanger black, but who knows how long that is going to last. I still think it looks pretty though.

It's difficult shooting a glossy black bike... any tips?









Doesn't the Deraiileur hanger being painted black make it look a little more classy? 









The BB was pretty decent. A little bit of scruffy lacquer, but it is barely seen (eventhough it is hard to see in this crappy photo)

A lot of us seem to be using SRAM, no? 









Inside the headtube - the integrated headset holders are aluminum. (see the paint chips? )









Picture of the painted cable stops:









Another crappy pic of inside the headtube:









*Also - can anyone suggest any glossy black (non carbon) water bottle cages?*


----------



## raymonda

These are lousy shots. I'm looking forward to the full build and better shot. either let your camera focus on the subject ot back off a bit so that they are a bit more clear.

Try American Classic cages. They are cheap, strong and light. Wait a minute! didn't Keith Bontrager say we could have all 3. Well, I guess he was wrong.

BTW, are you going to be able to give a ride report?


----------



## lalahsghost

raymonda said:


> These are lousey shots. I'm looking forward to the full build and better shot. either let your camera focus on the subject ot back off a bit so that they are a bit more clear.
> 
> Try American Classic cages. They are cheap, strong and light. Wait a minute! didn't Keith Bontrager say we could have all 3. Well, I guess he was wrong.
> 
> BTW, are you going to be able to give a ride report?


After taking four years of courses in photography in high school, and working as the manager of a photo/lab studio during that time too.... you think I would be better... I'll try using my tripod for clearer pics. 

Once the build is done and the weather warms up, I'll give a full review. I also wasn't trying for full demonstration shots... just things that were on my mind (rivets, and inside headtube)

Whadd'ya guys think about these? https://www.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/equip/4318-0115_l.jpg https://www.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/equip/4308-0015_l.jpg


----------



## raymonda

*Finished bike*

I just finished the decaling and headbadge for my bike and thought I would throw up some pics of the final product.

The headbadge is sterling silver and decals are die cut. 

The final bike weighs in @ 14.2 lbs.

The deals and headbadge give it a personal touch but your thoughts may vary.


----------



## velo2453

lalahsghost said:


> From my observations, it is highly probable that that frame came from the same manufacturer as the itsall4sports frames. seat tube, rivetted items and derailleur hanger (which is the same as a trek mtn bike hanger) all look the same.


I took a shot on one of these frames about a week ago. With the Live cashback it was worth taking a chance. I got the frameset 2 days ago, and it looks great. No visible flaws in the clear coat and all the riveted bosses and guides look solid and aligned. It will be another week before I can build it up, but it looks to be well worth the price.

BTW, shipping time was 4 days door to door from China to Ohio. I cant get things that fast from Nashbar 50 miles away! Packing method was a little unconventional, though.


----------



## dorkdisker

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260321250813&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123

Hey guys, is this frame from that same Hasa factory? There isn't a brand on it but it looks similiar.

Noob question, I am 5'11'(over 6 with shoes) and 32 inseam, do you think this bike is a good fit?


----------



## waterford853

*hasa?*

Fit sounds about right. It has a rather tall head tube for that size but I suspect that would be fine for all but the most aggressive setup. I swear I saw a post of this bike on this site. The review seemed say the bike was fine. Not great, but not total junk either. Do a search and see what you can find. The post was similar to yours... something about "900 grams for $500". Good luck.


----------



## simplyhankk

there's also an unpainted "Kuota Kredo" from the same ebay seller. IS that legit? looks like it and seems like good reviews about the seller....


----------



## Kuma601

I was looking at that same "Kuota" frame...sold already. Anybody here? Not that I need another bike but the temptations.


----------



## simplyhankk

Here

is the frame. Comments? opinions? Bashes, praises? 

The frame this guy sells are frames that sell for $1500+ with brand name tags...but looks like they are decent quality as stated by many "you get what you pay.." however I doubt you can get another frame like what he has for that price...?


----------



## simplyhankk

raymonda said:


> I just finished the decaling and headbadge for my bike and thought I would throw up some pics of the final product.
> 
> The headbadge is sterling silver and decals are die cut.
> 
> The final bike weighs in @ 14.2 lbs.
> 
> The deals and headbadge give it a personal touch but your thoughts may vary.



Ray, that's excellent build. Looks very clean and extremely attractive. 

Is that an integrated headset? Looks like it might be. I have a Wolf CL fork on my Cervelo that also has integrated headset but I wonder if that will fit the frame. 

And also, how do you get the decals? homemade? ...

Looks nice for sure, Thomson stem is a big plus.


----------



## raymonda

Yes, it is an integrated headset.

The decals I had made by Victory Graphics in Golden Co. They were around $30 for the kit. The head badge is a sterling silver SYF that was made by Jen @ www.headbadges.com

It's a tribute to one of my favorite bands.


----------



## fernandoj

Hi! I've found this topic on the net. Is this the same frame on L size/57 cms? fiber's modulus seems to be 3k fiber and yours 12k. The hanger, clamp, and direction doesn't match and it's less bright. I'm stuck!


----------



## fernandoj

I forgot the photo


----------



## cww180

The fork looks 12k.


----------



## kr1zje

The frames from ebay user named "itsall4sports" are shipping from china, not taiwan. Usually i should pay tax/duty around 30%, but in my country is additional duty for bike parts 48.5% from china. Now i have to pay nearly 90% of 501.99$ :<


----------



## CJA510

I got one of these recently, and am running a HASA fork with it. Easton components plus Campagnolo Mirage 10 spd groupset make up most of the rest. Weighs 8.52kg as you see it less the water bottle. 

Decals are some Campy ones I got off ebay for not much - quality reflected the price though.

Seems to ride pretty well, though I'm only up to about 50km so far and don't really have much to compare it to being more a mountain biker. I'm about 5'8" and wouldn't really have wanted any larger than the size I got which was quoted as a 51cm (I think).


----------



## simplyhankk

you think you got a 51cm? that looks more like 54...? please correct me if i'm wrong. and also 5'8" fits at about 54cm? reason being i'm about 5' 9" and I ride a 54 I guess there's no way to check unless if you measure it...


----------



## CleavesF

I'm 5'8" and I ride a 54cm but for my RS2 I needed a 49cm small. 

Go with top tube bud.


----------



## leonlikestrees

raymonda said:


> This frame comes in 3 sizes; small, medium and large. I have attached the size specs for each frame. As you can see, a small frmae is the only frame that would fit me. I can not be put on a frame that has a 54.5 CM TT and 145mm HT. I would not be able to get the correct position. Sure the seat tube may have looked more traditional, as opposed to a radically sloping TT but the rest would have been problematic and a waste of time and $.


Have you measured and confirmed this geomtery? I was looking at these (how I found this thread), and it seems a huge jump in top tube lengths to XL. I want something with a TT f about 580mm. 591 seems a bit much to me as my current bikes span the 570 - 585tt, with the 585 being on the long side.


----------



## lalahsghost

Just wanted to say that the bike came out at 16.95lb.... roughly 7700g for $1760!!! I am very satisfied with it, and I spent a little bit of cash on a cyclocomputer. Photos will be shot in a little bit


----------



## CJA510

Some approx measurements (+/- 5mm):
- centre of BB to top of seat tube 50cm
- centre of seat post to centre head tube (effective top tube) 52cm.

It's running a 100mm stem with a slight layback on the seat post as you can see. 

As I said, pretty sure it was quoted as a 51cm. 

Hope that helps.


----------



## simplyhankk

ever seen one of these? what kind of frame is it? The fork looks quite familiar with Pinarello's fork...


----------



## lalahsghost

simplyhankk said:


> ever seen one of these? what kind of frame is it? The fork looks quite familiar with Pinarello's fork...


I want that fork!!!


----------



## Master Cylinder

*lalahsghost...not to rush you, but....*

where are those pictures!

Thank you,


----------



## lalahsghost

Master Cylinder said:


> where are those pictures!
> 
> Thank you,


Unless you desire terrible cell phone photos, it will have to wait until I find my camera...

***EDIT*** Quick review: Compared to my ?25?lb steel bike (only other road bike I have put a butt on), this thing kills even the steepest the hills, even after me not riding more than 20miles/week! I have also noticed what I am guessing is more power being placed into the cranks instead of into the bike when I'm standing up. Instead of inadvertently moving mass side to side when the bike does the pendulum thing when out of the seat and going at it ex: \ | /, there seems to be less of that, and when it does happen... I can't feel it! More to come...


----------



## simplyhankk

another one of these less-expensive but good quality frames...

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=156709

experiences, opinions?


----------



## pmiddlebrook

What do you think of th ride now it is complete? Does it ride a smooth as a Kuota kebel? How about stiffness in the bottom bracket? How is the overall ride? I heard they are spongy and comfy but would not race a cadillac.


----------



## tkehler

pmiddlebrook said:


> What do you think of th ride now it is complete? Does it ride a smooth as a Kuota kebel? How about stiffness in the bottom bracket? How is the overall ride? I h*eard they are spongy and comfy but would not race a cadillac.*


Please clarify!  

Anyhow, I'm thinking of one of these frames, too. I'm 6'-1", with a 33 inseam. Probably a large would do, though it's a bit of a risk buying w/o trying.


----------



## cww180

I just got a notice from the post office that my frame is in, but they want me to declare how much each item is so they can charge some kind of import fee, did this happen to anyone else?


----------



## fabriciom

cww180 said:


> I just got a notice from the post office that my frame is in, but they want me to declare how much each item is so they can charge some kind of import fee, did this happen to anyone else?


Contact the seller and ask him to send you a receipt for like $50....


----------



## simplyhankk

or $5 

I thought they were declared as "gifts"


----------



## raymonda

cww180 said:


> I just got a notice from the post office that my frame is in, but they want me to declare how much each item is so they can charge some kind of import fee, did this happen to anyone else?


Nope. They just delivered it and left.


----------



## Kuma601

Doesn't this fall under the custom duties...even so, you are allowed a specified amount and this frame is at the lower end. Most the time it doesn't even register on radar. Even if you told them $500...but check the custom page regarding importing-shipping of goodies.


----------



## cww180

I went down to the post office and after further questioning since I was going to use the item for personal use there was no charge, so it worked out. I reside in Japan and they get a little weird about bringing things into their country. Thanks everyone!


----------



## kiwisimon

For future reference items invoiced over $200 get taxed wether personal or not but the customs guys are pretty busy this time of the year and stuff can get through untouched.


----------



## cww180

kiwisimon said:


> For future reference items invoiced over $200 get taxed wether personal or not but the customs guys are pretty busy this time of the year and stuff can get through untouched.


Thanks for the info! I think like others have stated that the headset is not the correct one.


----------



## lalahsghost

Master Cylinder said:


> where are those pictures!
> 
> Thank you,





lalahsghost said:


> Just wanted to say that the bike came out at 16.95lb.... roughly 7700g for $1760!!! I am very satisfied with it, and I spent a little bit of cash on a cyclocomputer. Photos will be shot in a little bit



















More pictures here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/lalahsghost/

I've done about five hours on the trainer with this bike now, and around three or four hours out on the road. I think my stem is just a bit too long, but that is something I can fix later. It is a sharp bike and responds very well. I have not had a chance to fully test it out and probably will not until April or so. I can report that it just feels 'fast.'Ending cost was under $2k, and overall satisfaction has fulfilled my bike envy. More results in my blog or seperate post later...

P.S. Gloss black spray paint sure did clean up the look of the bottle cages


----------



## AlexCad5

*Never buy the headset they offer!*

With my RS2 they were selling an FSA orbit, for a cheap price. It's not an orbit that was supplied, and has a lot of pieces I've never seen on a headset. I just threw it in my junk drawer and used an older record HS I had in stock.


----------



## sokudo

Should the wavy fork go with the frame with the wavy seatstays?


----------



## Donegal

Every one of these frames looks like a knock-off of a common frame. Pinarello, Scott and Kuota. Most all cargon frames are made in China or Taiwan, probably because of the ecological dirtiness of working with carbon.

I believe that the companies in this region have no scruples about selling out the front or back door. They may be older molds from earlier versions or whatever they can get their hands on. I saw the Kuota Kredo, the tubes look accurate, but the carbon weave is all different. My Kredo has a very tightknit weave, kevlar wrapping on the chainstay on drive side, etc. The knockoff has a very large weave, no kevlar, but looks like the same mold. Also, look at the wavy chainstays and fork. (Pinarello?) Also, one of the frames looks much like the Scott CR-1 and they use that large pattern carbon weave. Maybe not exactly the same layup as the big names, but a good mold of a carbon frame. They claim high modulus carbon, may be just fine.

I read a nasty post about a Kuota frame here and after seeing the pictures wonder if it came out the back door. It doesn't match my frame at all.

I think these frames may be just fine, having built my last 2 bikes from scratch. I am thinking about getting one just for fun and my friend wants me to build one for him. 

Also Raymonda, I am damn near exactly your size and ride a Kredo w/55 top tube and 100 stem. The larger frame lets me stretch out and has a head tube height of 165 which brings the bars up to me(I am 52 and not as flexible.) therefore needing few spacers. The longer frames feel more stable, I have no front wheel/toe overlap and feel my weight is better positioned where I feel more stable at speed. I found I like the larger size by accident after reading that Eddie Merckx rode the largest frame he could throw his leg over and tried it and was sold. Today it is the rage to find smaller or sloping frames for weight savings and rigidity.


----------



## lalahsghost

sokudo said:


> Should the wavy fork go with the frame with the wavy seatstays?











https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=180316202260

***EDIT: Bought it and will take pics whenever I get it installed.


----------



## raymonda

I have a 29 inch inseam. After 25 years of riding I have pretty much got my position down perfect. If I were to ride a 55cm TT, the bike would most likely have a 55cm DT. Given that I would not be able to stand over the bike with both feet on the ground. Also, if I ever had to dismount quickly I would seriously hurt myself.

A 50cm down tube (standard geometry) and 52-53 cm TT is just about right.


----------



## N-roman

cww180 said:


> Thanks for the info! I think like others have stated that the headset is not the correct one.


Some days ago I receieved identical frame. Unfourtunatelly, problem with incorrect headset is there. Seller (itsall4sports) said "there may be some parts lost in the headset", but it's not like truth. Just incompatible headset, no another reasons, I think.

Another photos located in my album (http://photofile.ru/users/romkafromru/95273332/). Sorry, it's russian web, I'm from Moscow.


----------



## kr1zje

I received this frame but i didn't check this headset. I put my old fsa is3e and it look like work for me. But i send it back to *itsall4sports* because i received a ****, not a decent quality frame. Cable holder pinned in opposite direction, and to small hole for brake. WTF?! Now i'm waiting for them, because they don't wanna send me new frame before they received first frame.

And the finish around headtube is just ugly.


----------



## lalahsghost

kr1zje said:


> I received this frame but i didn't check this headset. I put my old fsa is3e and it look like work for me. But i send it back to *itsall4sports* because i received a ****, not a decent quality frame. Cable holder pinned in opposite direction, and to small hole for brake. WTF?! Now i'm waiting for them, because they don't wanna send me new frame before they received first frame.
> 
> And the finish around headtube is just ugly.


The cable clamp thing is TOTALLY understandable, but for the way/style/aesthetics that the last carbon layer is wrapped cannot be complained about, since well, you get what you pay for.


----------



## kr1zje

I bought by ebay, and on auction there is a pics of good quality finish, not sth like that, for me i didn't get what i pay for!


----------



## theone29

raymonda said:


> I just finished the decaling and headbadge for my bike and thought I would throw up some pics of the final product.
> 
> The headbadge is sterling silver and decals are die cut.
> 
> The final bike weighs in @ 14.2 lbs.
> 
> The deals and headbadge give it a personal touch but your thoughts may vary.


where did you get the decals, especially the one on the head tube? how many miles have you put on this thing and how is it? by the way, nice bike. thanks ahead.


----------



## raymonda

kr1zje said:


> I bought by ebay, and on auction there is a pics of good quality finish, not sth like that, for me i didn't get what i pay for!


It is unfortunate that the cable guide was put on backwards. I'm surprised that your LBS didn't just unrivet it and place it on correctly. Not that it shouldn't have come the correct way but this is not a really difficult job and most shops can do this job in 5 minutes or less.

As for the fit and finish, it looks to be in the same cosmetics as mine, which I was happy with, understanding that i didn't by from Pinerello, where after they get their bikes from Tiawan they spend extra time finishing them off to their standards. But then again you pay an extra $1500 for their paint and final finish.

Also, the final carbon lay up looks to be fine on yours. Mine looks great and I have no complaint.

I'm not surprised that they will not send you a new frame until they receive your old one. I can't think of anyone who would send you another item out with out the old returning one.

Anyway, I hope you have better luck with your new one.


----------



## spastook

I don't understand why you'd buy a frameset sight unseen from a questionable source just to save a few bucks. Alright granted it's more than a few bucks but most of you guys don't seem to be on that tight of a budget anyhow. From what I read a lot of you plan to build these frames with either Record or Dura/Ace components then drop another grand on a wheelset plus I'm pretty certain most of you won't scrimp on your bars, seatposts and stems either. Just my 2 cents but I'd rather get a component as important as the frameset from a reputable source.


----------



## lalahsghost

spastook said:


> I don't understand why you'd buy a frameset sight unseen from a questionable source just to save a few bucks. Alright granted it's more than a few bucks but most of you guys don't seem to be on that tight of a budget anyhow. From what I read a lot of you plan to build these frames with either Record or Dura/Ace components then drop another grand on a wheelset plus I'm pretty certain most of you won't scrimp on your bars, seatposts and stems either. Just my 2 cents but I'd rather get a component as important as the frameset from a reputable source.


My build was the perfect 33% split... kinda.... $600 for frame, $600 for groupset, $500 and some on wheels, and the rest. College Bike Xtremez. I took a lot of chances buying the frameset, but there is no way I could have gone full-CF under $600, even used... #2 reason I bought the bike - Minimalism in logos and designs. There were none!


----------



## spastook

lalahsghost said:


> My build was the perfect 33% split... kinda.... $600 for frame, $600 for groupset, $500 and some on wheels, and the rest. College Bike Xtremez. I took a lot of chances buying the frameset, but there is no way I could have gone full-CF under $600, even used... #2 reason I bought the bike - Minimalism in logos and designs. There were none!



In your case I can understand, going for the most bang for the buck. But some people spare no expense building these frames up yet IMO take a real chance in being very dissapointed buying product sight unseen. I'm aware that most of the high end brands come from the same factories, but how can you be certain your not buying rejects or seconds. If all works out O.K. you've saved a bundle.(in your case) but if your planning on dropping $4k anyhow why skimp here?


----------



## raymonda

spastook said:


> In your case I can understand, going for the most bang for the buck. But some people spare no expense building these frames up yet IMO take a real chance in being very dissapointed buying product sight unseen. I'm aware that most of the high end brands come from the same factories, but how can you be certain your not buying rejects or seconds. If all works out O.K. you've saved a bundle.(in your case) but if your planning on dropping $4k anyhow why skimp here?


I didn't know that the seller was a questionable? Where did you get that information from. It seems that everyone, with one exception, is happy with their product. At under $500.00 for the frameset it seemed like a no-brainer to me. Most of the components I have put on the bike have been used. Those that weren't were bought at a deep discount. The total bike was extremely affordable. If the frame rides as well as my initial ride indicated this past fall, before winter set in, it may infact be my favorite ride but that won't be determined until I get some miles and long rides in. Right now it continues to be worth the financial risk.

Tonight I broke a $200.00 hockey stick that I had for less than a month, or just under half of what I paid for this frame. I expect this frame to last much longer than that. Sh*t, if I could afford a $2,000 or more carbon frame I would buy it, however, I can't and this seemed, and still seems, to be a rasonable chance.

Frame weighs 1000grams and rides well, (Actually, better than well. See my initial ride review) and now cost in the low $400's. Even if I received a frame with a cable guide riveted on backwards, as long as they correct the problem, I would be happy.

The saying "You get what you pay for" is not always true. Sometimes you get less and sometimes you get more. In this case I can say that I have received more than what I paid for.


----------



## jake21

These are not HASA frames. They seem to be a cheap knockoff.

J


----------



## raymonda

jake21 said:


> These are not HASA frames. They seem to be a cheap knockoff.
> 
> J


What do you know?

I researched prior to buying and it seemed obvious that the frame were not in HASA's catalog but HASA makes many frames as OEM for other companies. Also, the seller seems to be connected to HASA distrubution. So, I assumed that these frames were made by HASA, as frames for use but not used. In any case, and at this time, I continue to be satisfied and do not feel short changed.

Again, however, I would be interested in full disclosure of information you may have regarding this topic.


----------



## jake21

I spoke with the GM at HASA. He assured me that these are not his frames. That said, I think that if they hold up, they're are a bargain for what you get.


----------



## kr1zje

*raymonda* for now i decided to wait for kuota kredo frame in M size, because they don't have your frame in M size temporarily  I have to wait aprox. one month.


----------



## raymonda

jake21 said:


> I spoke with the GM at HASA. He assured me that these are not his frames. That said, I think that if they hold up, they're are a bargain for what you get.


Was he reponding to their catalog or that they are not OEM at all. If the later, are the pursuing any legal action?


----------



## aaronis31337

blazer said:


> Has anyone seen, heard, or purchased one of these frames. For $479 and 950g they looked interesting. Thanks for any input.
> 
> Take a look at http://www.hasabike.com.tw/
> 
> It looks like a really new startup. By the looks of their terrible website, I'd stay away. If they put as much consideration into their bikes as their webpage it's sure to fall apart.


----------



## stevesbike

by the standards of these sort of websites (Asian frame makers) that website is actually pretty trick...


----------



## raymonda

The web site states that they started in the early 90's, and there is info about their continuous participation at the Euro and Asian trade fairs for the past 10 years or so. I would say they are a bit more than a start up. 

Their Ti-carbon frame looks pretty cool, too.


----------



## Master Cylinder

Here's the HASA all dressed up...








http://www.raleigh.co.za/bikes.php?rangeid=10&year=2007#desc


----------



## dorkdisker

It is beautiful with that paint scheme!!!!!! Ugly(to me) with just the shiny black weave.


----------



## cww180

What happened to the picture?


----------



## Spudgun74

*Carbon TT frame on Ebay*

Hi, the feed has been informative for me. Seems there are issues to be had with some of these frames. Has anyone purchased the TT frame?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=270329779974

There are a few on EBay, one under 'Hasa' naming as well. Feedback for this seller seems good, with all purchasers of Road Frames being happy. But can't find any TT buyers.

Thinking of pulling the trigger, but just wondering if anyone else has done so?

Thanks.


----------



## lalahsghost

Spudgun74 said:


> Hi, the feed has been informative for me. Seems there are issues to be had with some of these frames. Has anyone purchased the TT frame?
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=270329779974
> 
> There are a few on EBay, one under 'Hasa' naming as well. Feedback for this seller seems good, with all purchasers of Road Frames being happy. But can't find any TT buyers.
> 
> Thinking of pulling the trigger, but just wondering if anyone else has done so?
> 
> Thanks.


You may or may not be willing to do what I did before buying my "HASA"

Go through the seller's feedback ratings. > Look for people who purchased one of the TT bikes through reading the titles of the purchased products. > Click the buyer's names and send them a message about the bike. > Wait for responces.

I did it to five or six people and got two responces with pictures and reviews, and three responces with just quick comments like "I've had it 800 miles and enjoy it so far."

It's an honest, and fair way to start your informed decision. If you get any responces or pictures.... send them this way so the rest of us will know.


----------



## Spudgun74

Yes, I did have that same thought.

I have just gone through all the feedback for the last 90 days. Seems there are plenty of road frame buyers, but no TT ones unfortunately. 

The feedback on the Road frames seems fairly good, with any issues generally concerning shipping. 

Seems like I may have to be the guinea pig on this one and just rely on the good feedback on the road frames.

I'll post pics and let everyone know how it goes if I purchase this one.

These seem reasonable also -

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=160297772285


----------



## lalahsghost

Unless either of them have the frame size you need now, I'd hold off. The itsallforsports guy is getting more than just a 54 cm soon, as his listing states.


> Size M(54) only, (sizes S&L will be available later)


 :shrug:

Oh! I bought a pair of leg warmers from the same seller. They are quality, but the iron-on logos are shoddy after one washing. Possibly a knock off, but the lycra/elastic is supreme quality.


----------



## Spudgun74

Fortunately enough the 54cm is spot-on for me. Will decide in the next day or two which way i'll go on this.

Found this one also -

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=160297772285

http://www.xlab-usa.com/images/avengertt_article.pdf

Not a lot of info floating around about these. They have a good aero shape, internal cable routing, but a tad on the heavy side. Not too sure if XLab will continue will frames, looks like they have given it a go and then decided to stick to what they know.

52cm & 55cm available. Just getting shipping quotes from seller of these.


----------



## lalahsghost

Good luck and keep us informed! :23: I'm interested in the TT bike, especially at that price.


----------



## simplyhankk

......


----------



## raymonda

*HASA/Merckx LXM*

Came across a 2009 picture of EM LXM. Same frame. The onlt difference is a 3K vs 12K weave and double bolt on the RD hanger.

That mystery is history.


----------



## ci85

Hi!
Please help me...
I want buy this http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=220345884749...
I'm not english and i don't understand all what you just write...
Can I buy it?
Thank you very much!
God bless you!:aureola:


----------



## ci85

Whatch this frame... 

http://www.cycletaiwan.com/shop/ind...ategory_id=22&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53


----------



## raymonda

Buy it and enjoy it.


----------



## ci85

raymonda said:


> Buy it and enjoy it.


Thank you! 
Probably this is more expensive but is better... http://www.cycletaiwan.com/shop/inde...mart&Itemid=53


----------



## MANTEIGA

*Wow.......*

This is the fastest moving thread i've ever seen...... 
I cant read fast enough to keep up:mad2:


----------



## aaronis31337

ci85 said:


> Whatch this frame...
> 
> http://www.cycletaiwan.com/shop/ind...ategory_id=22&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53



Holy cow! That's really high quality carbon!

"Tripe carbon fiber composite technology: M35/T700/T800"


This might be a kick-ass frame! It kinda looks like a BH. I remember they were using the T800 in the BB. Or some other european company.

Damb, I wish I needed a new frame.


----------



## aaronis31337

simplyhankk said:


> ever seen one of these? what kind of frame is it? The fork looks quite familiar with Pinarello's fork...



That looks like a Onda fork! Could it be Italian? I know it's from Taiwan, but everything is outsourced these days.


----------



## stevesbike

aaronis31337 said:


> Holy cow! That's really high quality carbon!
> 
> "Tripe carbon fiber composite technology: M35/T700/T800"
> 
> 
> This might be a kick-ass frame! It kinda looks like a BH. I remember they were using the T800 in the BB. Or some other european company.
> 
> Damb, I wish I needed a new frame.


looks like the pedalforce rs2 (was available for a group buy price at $450 last year).


----------



## lalahsghost

aaronis31337 said:


> That looks like a Onda fork! Could it be Italian? I know it's from Taiwan, but everything is outsourced these days.



I own that fork too, just not installed. What would you like to know about it?


----------



## Spudgun74

Just to keep you informed.

I started another thread in regards to the TT frames on EBay. Here -

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=159618

I have received the frame and I'm working on the build now, hope to have it done in the next week. I'll post pics of completed bike in the thread above also.


----------



## cww180

*My Build*

Here are a few pics of my build. Bike weighs a little over 15 as it sits, SRAM Red, Niobium 30's with DT240 hubs.


----------



## kr1zje

I exchange hasa for "kuota kredo", overall is 7148g, L size with 562mm top tube lenght.


----------



## theone29

nice setup. can you take a picture of the bottom bracket cable guide on the kredo for me? i purchase the same frame and it didn't come with the cable guide under the bottom bracket. thanks;.


----------



## kr1zje

I use cable guide from my frontd campa centaur.


----------



## Italianrider76

Cyclists would have to be by far the worst photographers.


----------



## theone29

thanks for taking the pictures.


----------



## lalahsghost

So its been about 500 miles with my Hasa (Rival-Ritchey WCS) build. I am enjoying it. 

I haven't ridden any serious milage in five or six months and my first ride out, I was feeling fine. The frame does seem to take a lot of the vibrations out of the coarse/ancient rural roads that I tend to travel. Saying that... I cannot attest to an empirical decrease in fatigue due to the wonder of carbon vs. steel... but once again, not in the concerns of fit or geometry... the ride feels a lot more comfortable. 

I feel like I have more endurance at the end of a ride, and my hands are not sore either. The frame goes where I want it to, and is not jittery, spastic. When I start hammering out on my rare sprints (In my neck of the woods, we sprint for points whenever there is a county line ) the bike likes to flail around a little bit more, but I contribute that only to it being used to a bike that is five or six pounds heavier. 

Of course coming from a $200 ebay Dawes bike anything would feel like magic, no? :thumbsup:


----------



## silicagel

lalahsghost said:


> https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=180316202260
> 
> ***EDIT: Bought it and will take pics whenever I get it installed.



Hi there! the fork in question is a real full carbon as it is stated? the stem looks aluminium. Wrong?


----------



## theone29

it is full carbon. i have one, i can confirmed it.


----------



## ssing20

I have this Hasa fork. Full carbon and $99 on eBay. It's a little more conservative in style compared to the wavy Pinarello-esque one. Weight was 377g uncut. rake 45mm. Really like it. No complaints.


----------



## lalahsghost

ssing20 said:


> I have this Hasa fork. Full carbon and $99 on eBay. It's a little more conservative in style compared to the wavy Pinarello-esque one. Weight was 377g uncut. rake 45mm. Really like it. No complaints.


Yah, thats the one I originally bought and put back on after trying out the "pinarello" one.


----------



## ssing20

lalahsghost said:


> Yah, thats the one I originally bought and put back on after trying out the "pinarello" one.


Just curious....was there any difference as far as ride quality/handling goes? or was it just looks?

thanks.


----------



## lalahsghost

ssing20 said:


> Just curious....was there any difference as far as ride quality/handling goes? or was it just looks?
> 
> thanks.


I'm glad I can honestly answer this question with a very empirical schedule of experimentation!. "Day 1" I still had the first fork on. "Day 2" I had the 'pinarello' fork on, and rode it for two days, then on "Day 4," I was back to the first fork. Same cut lenght, same stem, and everything else. This is your classical A-B-A schedule.

I feel like I was able to make smooth, responsive turns with BOTH forks. For the most part, I would rate them the same. The "pinarello" fork did feel like it absorbed/distributed more bumps than the first fork. It had a touch bit more comfort to it. This may or may not be an empirical observation and could just be a confound in the experimenter's observation. :shrug:

I will say I felt like I wanted to see if I could go faster with the "pinarello" fork too! That is always a plus!


----------



## CabDoctor

fabriciom said:


> Any news updates on this? I also would like to buy the Scott CR1 replica they sell.
> 
> -Thanks


Which one is that? I'm having a hard time finding it on ebay.


----------



## raymonda

The manufacturer of these bikes billed as Hasa are made by a company called Carbon Fiber Products out of China. Visit www.carbon-fiber-products.com.cn to view their website.


----------



## sokudo

So why did you put back the non-wavy fork?



lalahsghost said:


> I'm glad I can honestly answer this question with a very empirical schedule of experimentation!. "Day 1" I still had the first fork on. "Day 2" I had the 'pinarello' fork on, and rode it for two days, then on "Day 4," I was back to the first fork. Same cut lenght, same stem, and everything else. This is your classical A-B-A schedule.
> 
> I feel like I was able to make smooth, responsive turns with BOTH forks. For the most part, I would rate them the same. The "pinarello" fork did feel like it absorbed/distributed more bumps than the first fork. It had a touch bit more comfort to it. This may or may not be an empirical observation and could just be a confound in the experimenter's observation. :shrug:
> 
> I will say I felt like I wanted to see if I could go faster with the "pinarello" fork too! That is always a plus!


----------



## fogliettaz

Coming close to buying one of these myself, cannot make up my mind on the 3k or 12k weave? Any thoughts? Also has anyone had to pay customs clearance and duty when importing from Taiwan and China? I live in the UK.


----------



## kr1zje

I live in Poland, the seller prepare invoice for $10 used frame for test, so i didn't pay any tax.


----------



## fogliettaz

Thanks, I had planned to do this as well!


----------



## lalahsghost

sokudo said:


> So why did you put back the non-wavy fork?


I just liked the look of the non wavy fork more after seeing both mounted on the frame.
I guess it just ended up as a $99 experiment and a fork I doubt I'll ever need.    :blush2:


----------



## ctoestreich

First, I just wanted to say thanks to lalahsghost and raymonda for their leg work and posting good comments and pics of their builds and experience. I pulled the trigger on the "Kredo" frame and will be building it up week or two (depending on when it arrives). I did order a new groupo, but will be moving over some parts from my current bike. I will also try and document my build and ride experience on the frame once I make some progress.


----------



## cww180

I would also like to especially thank Raymonda and everyone who has contributed to this thread, it helped me in my decision to purchase this frameset. I am very happy so far with the bike and its performance. I didn't experience all of the problems as some, I did get the wrong headset but got back with the seller and he sent me the correct one, and there was some clear coat in the head tube and bottom bracket area other than than it was great! Thanks again.


----------



## Jixeroo

I'm with cww180, thanks to all on this thread for contributing detailed comments. 

I just received a small Kuota Kredo frame (from eBay/itsall4sports). The no-name "Campy standard" integrated headset will be replaced and the decent seatpost clamp will get a Ti bolt upgrade. The frame was quite clean (no scratches) with a smooth finish throughout, all four water bottle mount insert threads had to be cleaned-up with a tap and the seat tube also had to be cleaned-up to allow a 31.6 mm seatpost to be installed (epoxy adhesive squeeze-out at the bottom of the metal sleeve insert prevented the seatpost from being inserted past 3.5"). The BB shell measured to be exactly 68 mm and the threads (English) were clean and accepted bearing cups without a problem. The headtube inserts looked fine, the top and bottom bearing interface angle measured 45 degrees and accepted FSA Orbit CF integrated headset bearings at an OD of 41.8 mm (the ID of the headtube inserts measured 42 mm). I'll be building this CF frame with DA, a Reynolds Ouzo Pro fork and a custom wheelset from White Mountain Wheels. I'll post pics asap.


----------



## CabDoctor

A few months ago there were quite a few "no-name" carbon frames with intergrated seat mast on ebay. Now I can't seem to find any, anyone know where they went.


----------



## simplyhankk

one of the blank frames that i've had for about 5 months. Took this picture while taking a water break today...the weather was nice! 808's with zipp 300 cranks, selle italia slc, thomson masterpiece...this thing is plenty light and stiff, no complaints...although I do not have one of those pinarello shaped fork...those look bad @$$!

ride safely :thumbsup:


----------



## raspaa

Love the stealth look, very clean and characteristic. What size is it?


----------



## lalahsghost

simplyhankk said:


> one of the blank frames that i've had for about 5 months. Took this picture while taking a water break today...the weather was nice! 808's with zipp 300 cranks, selle italia slc, thomson masterpiece...this thing is plenty light and stiff, no complaints...although I do not have one of those pinarello shaped fork...those look bad @$$!
> 
> ride safely :thumbsup:


What kind of handlebars are those?


----------



## theone29

finally, she is done. ebay kredo, race face stem/seatpost, pz racing handlebar, woodman post clamp, prologo saddle, chorus 11 groupo, cheap campy khamsin wheels, continental force/attack tires, crank brothers quattro ti. took her out for a 62.5 miles test ride and i couldn't tell much of a difference between it and my look 595 ultra/7800. i am a first time campy user and i was really amazed with how smooth the shifting is, especially the multi-gears down shift. hope you guys enjoy the color theme. guess how much she weight as is?

<br>
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/thienn/3346038024/" title="DSC02521 by thien3204, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3315/3346038024_e579af9d0f_o.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="DSC02521" /></a>
<br>
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/thienn/3346038922/" title="DSC02526 by thien3204, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3402/3346038922_16613f8823_o.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="DSC02526" /></a>
<br>
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/thienn/3345200341/" title="DSC02533 by thien3204, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3305/3345200341_56b9e00946_o.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="DSC02533" /></a>
<br>
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/thienn/3345207299/" title="DSC02561 by thien3204, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3600/3345207299_5cc4d050ab_o.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="DSC02561" /></a>


----------



## ssing20

*Nice pics*

Nice looking bike. I'd guess about 16.1 lbs.

Love the pic of Lake Washington/Mercer Island. I grew up on that hill to the right.....Somerset in Bellevue.


----------



## IN2SUN

TheOne29, what size is that?


----------



## kr1zje

Very nice bike


----------



## theone29

IN2SUN said:


> TheOne29, what size is that?


Small/50cm/TT52cm.


----------



## theone29

Thank you.


----------



## Italianrider76

theone29 are you a designer of some sort??? I must say, you have impeccable taste and a very sharp eye for what looks good.


----------



## Kuma601

Congrats on the nice build! 
I have a strong feeling what the next bike will be.


----------



## simplyhankk

lalahsghost said:


> What kind of handlebars are those?



Syntace Racelite Carbon. Very light (193g?), took me a while to find the shape/ shorter distance in drop that I wanted. highly recommended!


----------



## IN2SUN

theone29 said:


> Small/50cm/TT52cm.


I'm getting the same frame, 50CM. If you don't mind, what's the seat height in the pictures and how tall are you? Thanks.


----------



## theone29

IN2SUN said:


> I'm getting the same frame, 50CM. If you don't mind, what's the seat height in the pictures and how tall are you? Thanks.


I am 5'7", 145lbs. seat height? from seat post clamp? i don't know, i have to measure it for you.


----------



## theone29

Italianrider76 said:


> theone29 are you a designer of some sort??? I must say, you have impeccable taste and a very sharp eye for what looks good.


no or maybe i wish i was getting paid for it. i just picture the bike in my head and start spending money wisely to get the results. thanks for the comment.


----------



## livin4lax09

simplyhankk said:


> one of the blank frames that i've had for about 5 months. Took this picture while taking a water break today...the weather was nice! 808's with zipp 300 cranks, selle italia slc, thomson masterpiece...this thing is plenty light and stiff, no complaints...although I do not have one of those pinarello shaped fork...those look bad @$$!
> 
> ride safely :thumbsup:


sweet, what frame is that? Doesn't look like any of the ones currently on ebay


----------



## IN2SUN

theone29 said:


> I am 5'7", 145lbs. seat height? from seat post clamp? i don't know, i have to measure it for you.


From center bottom bracket to top of seat. Thanks.


----------



## piercebrew

I have no idea how these breaks are but they would add to the look. I love the bike, I think we need to get Hasa frames up on the review side of things. 
If the photo doesn't come up here is the link.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250360442194&indexURL=0#ebayphotohosting


----------



## CabDoctor

Sweet! Nice find on the brakes. 

Has anyone seen this frame in black and without decals? 










It's the ROSSETTI HMSL-1. Thanks guys.


----------



## theone29

piercebrew said:


> I have no idea how these breaks are but they would add to the look. I love the bike, I think we need to get Hasa frames up on the review side of things.
> If the photo doesn't come up here is the link.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250360442194&indexURL=0#ebayphotohosting


those would look sweet on mine, but i am about 2 bills short, so maybe next year.


----------



## ctoestreich

theone29 said:


> no or maybe i wish i was getting paid for it. i just picture the bike in my head and start spending money wisely to get the results. thanks for the comment.


You have a lot of bikes up on your photostream. All of them look like nice rides. How many of those are actually yours? I would guess you as a professional bike builder... with a minor in design!


----------



## Ichijin

I am currently looking at some of the ebay CF frames and it is really difficult to find a frame which fits me.

I have pinpointed one frame in a size 48 with a 51cm TT, but the problem is the HT angle which is specified to be 69.5 deg.

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Hasa-Full-Carbon-Road-bike-Frame-960g-Only_W0QQitemZ220362379450QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRoad_Bikes?hash=item220362379450&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262

Would this shallow HT angle cause stability issues?

Thanks for your help


Fred


----------



## theone29

ctoestreich said:


> You have a lot of bikes up on your photostream. All of them look like nice rides. How many of those are actually yours? I would guess you as a professional bike builder... with a minor in design!


yes, they are all mine. no, i am not a pro builder. i just got the bug!!!
took another test ride today w/ a buddy, from alki to discovery park here in seattle. man, i really like this bike!!! 
<br>
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/thienn/3352153083/" title="P3133315 by thien3204, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3562/3352153083_22f8f259b7_o.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="P3133315" /></a>
<br>
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/thienn/3352978996/" title="P3133339 by thien3204, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3570/3352978996_589ff8190a_o.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="P3133339" /></a>
<br>
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/thienn/3352153901/" title="P3133306 by thien3204, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3428/3352153901_1a5db72faf_o.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="P3133306" /></a>
<br>
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/thienn/3352978872/" title="P3133299 by thien3204, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3430/3352978872_76f0d48050_o.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="P3133299" /></a>
<br>
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/thienn/3352153763/" title="P3133334 by thien3204, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3608/3352153763_8c2b085568_o.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="P3133334" /></a>


----------



## ctoestreich

Just finished the build today. I will post more pics once I get it outside tomorrow. Weight is ~17.6lbs. That is for the 56cm Frame w/heavy handlebars and stem.


----------



## raymonda

*Final changes*

After riding the bike some more I've decided to make it my main ride. So, off went the carbon saddle and on went a Flite. I also added white tape to go with the saddle, Dancing Bear top cap and some flames.

The bike rides nice. No complaints. full bike, as seen, weighs just under 14.5lbs


----------



## silicagel

theone29 said:


> Small/50cm/TT52cm.


Hi theone29! are you sure the TT is 520? the ebay sellers state 525. could you please measure the head tube? in your case (50cm frame) should be 125. sorry to trouble you, but since i've planned to buy the same model and size I'd like to be pretty sure about that. Is te fork full carbon? last question, can you remember the name of the seller? THANKS

PS:where did you find those khamsim!?!? i've got them too, but I thought they were only black and silver! the bike looks really GREAT that way


----------



## IN2SUN

ctoestreich said:


> Just finished the build today. I will post more pics once I get it outside tomorrow. Weight is ~17.6lbs. That is for the 56cm Frame w/heavy handlebars and stem.


Hey ctoestreich, what headset are you using? Mine don't seem to fit--too tall. Oh, these don't need headset cups pressed in, do they? Bought a MTB frame and I had to do that. Thanks.


----------



## Dutch77

Do you guys think there would be a way of building the large frame up for someone that's 6'4" with a 34.5" inseam? I've emailed them and there's no extra large frames available, but this one is just really tempting (this would be my first build) 

Large frame measurements:


----------



## fogliettaz

I have just bought one this morning! I am 6.0', 183 cms with an inseam of 32" 81cms and ordered a 56cm frame and fork. It is also my first build and this thread has motivated me to do it!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Carbon-Road-Bik...9|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50


----------



## 02tones02

Just finished my build as off 2009-03-16!

Ultegra SL with FSA team issue carbon crank....

Lime Green Handlebar tape  , Easton EA90 SLX Wheels with Vittoria Rubber.


Cheers,

A.


----------



## My Own Private Idaho

Dutch77 said:


> Do you guys think there would be a way of building the large frame up for someone that's 6'4" with a 34.5" inseam?


No. You wouldn't be happy with it.


----------



## ctoestreich

02tones02 said:


> Lime Green Handlebar tape


Pics or it didn't happen!!


----------



## ctoestreich

IN2SUN said:


> Hey ctoestreich, what headset are you using? Mine don't seem to fit--too tall. Oh, these don't need headset cups pressed in, do they? Bought a MTB frame and I had to do that. Thanks.


I just used the ones that came with the bike. I toyed around with them and they fit for me really well. It just needs to be the campy ones with the 45/45. Any integrated threadless 45/45 should work. My biggest challenge was pounding on the crown race. I just used a pace of 1.25in drain pipe I had laying around. Something like this FSA HEADSET should do the trick. Up to you really.


----------



## ctoestreich

A couple more observations about the bike.

* Mine didn't have the barrel adjuster things where the shift cables meet the frame. I just unscrewed the ones from my old frame and used those.
* I got the 56cm (L) Kredo and it fits proportionately larger than my last 56cm frame. My seat is all the way forward on the rails just to have a comfortable reach. I am going to get a 0 setback post and shorter stem. 

I think this frame may accommodate slightly larger reach than a standard 56cm spec, but no more than 1-2in overall. I don't think the poster above @ 6'4" would fit. You might get away with 6"-6"1'... I am 5'11.5" w/~33.5 inseam.


----------



## Ride-Fly

theone29 said:


> yes, they are all mine. no, i am not a pro builder. i just got the bug!!!
> took another test ride today w/ a buddy, from alki to discovery park here in seattle. man, i really like this bike!!!QUOTE]
> 
> I checked out your other bikes too and they all look great. I can't tell what your first bike is in your gallery (the black bike with the red accents.) Is it carbon also? How do you rank your rides? You mentioned that the Look 595U is indiscernible to your new Hasa frame. BTW, is the Hasa frame an unbadged Kuota Kredo frame? Do you find the 595U to be too stiff or harsh? I've read that most guys (even Chas from LOOK USA) don't recommend the Ultra version unless you are a very strong rider because the 595 Origin is plenty stiff enough for most everyone. Thanks for posting the great pics- I am pretty sure that when I buy a frame for my sister, I am going to get one of these unbadged Taiwanese frames for her and build it up with my old DA parts.


----------



## iherald

does anyone sell no name carbon aero rims?


----------



## IN2SUN

ctoestreich said:


> I just used the ones that came with the bike. I toyed around with them and they fit for me really well. It just needs to be the campy ones with the 45/45. Any integrated threadless 45/45 should work. My biggest challenge was pounding on the crown race. I just used a pace of 1.25in drain pipe I had laying around. Something like this FSA HEADSET should do the trick. Up to you really.


So the frame does require the race cups to be pressed into the headtube? I ordered the headset from the same place but it does not include the cups. Can the cups be integrated into the headtube? I'm a bit confused; I have MTB frame which did require the cups to be pressed in.


----------



## Dutch77

My Own Private Idaho said:


> No. You wouldn't be happy with it.


I figured as much, too bad. I'll have to keep my eyes open for a good deal on a used frame (also considering a Caad9 w/ BB30 new).


----------



## lalahsghost

02tones02 said:


> Just finished my build as off 2009-03-16!
> 
> Ultegra SL with FSA team issue carbon crank....
> 
> Lime Green Handlebar tape  , Easton EA90 SLX Wheels with Vittoria Rubber.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> A.


Liquigas!!!?!


----------



## Walkinshaw

looks like every man and their dog are now selling these, down to $280 for frame only

has anyone used the seat posts some sellers offer with the bike?

tossing up between

http://cgi.ebay.com/Full-Carbon-Roa...5|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50
$429 delivered

or

http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-Full-...9|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:1|293:1|294:50
$410 delivered


----------



## 02tones02

lalahsghost said:


> Liquigas!!!?!



Will get pics up before the weekend  

I think it's the same colour as liquigas....

Cheers,

A.


----------



## ctoestreich

IN2SUN said:


> So the frame does require the race cups to be pressed into the headtube? I ordered the headset from the same place but it does not include the cups. Can the cups be integrated into the headtube? I'm a bit confused; I have MTB frame which did require the cups to be pressed in.


Maybe I mis-spoke. I didn't have to get anything pressed in. The frame is already set up to directly handle the bearings. To couple against the bottom bearing you still need to put the crown race on the steer tube.


----------



## onegearqueer

*Well...*

So one of these showed up in the area and I took a peek. I will be building it up for the guy. This one is a EM lxm knock off. Same geo numbers and such with english threads. I looked it over good and wow the craftsmanship is really nice! Drops out hold the wheel straight, inside the tubes are not sloppy, clearcoat is done well, all carbon fork, weight is as advertised. For 400 bucks + shipping f/f....man I feel robbed with my Orbea :blush2:

Could use a little hi-lite paint to spruce it up. 

But of course there there will always be the question of trust worthy durability. Us cyclist feel if there is a brand name painted on it then it will not break and kill us. I stand by my sneeking hunch that a majority of the carbon frames out there are farmed out. It is just to easy for all these companys to be developing carbon frames so fast. They design a shape, have it made in the orient then labled as theirs...done.

Anyway..I to am curious how they build up, ride and hold up. Guess I will be answering it real soon......since i will prolly ride it before the owner does  

Here are some pics


----------



## onegearqueer

*Dude....*



raymonda said:


> I just finished the decaling and headbadge for my bike and thought I would throw up some pics of the final product.
> 
> The headbadge is sterling silver and decals are die cut.
> 
> The final bike weighs in @ 14.2 lbs.
> 
> The deals and headbadge give it a personal touch but your thoughts may vary.


Nice sticker set...we should get a "Darkstar" club going with these knock-offs


----------



## IN2SUN

Walkinshaw said:


> looks like every man and their dog are now selling these, down to $280 for frame only
> 
> has anyone used the seat posts some sellers offer with the bike?
> 
> tossing up between
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Full-Carbon-Roa...5|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50
> $429 delivered
> 
> or
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-Full-...9|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:1|293:1|294:50
> 
> $410 delivered


The seatpost for my frame is very tight. Haven't been able to push it through, yet. It's supposed to be a 31.6 setup. Not sure if it's the lacquer on the post or the seat tube is off.


----------



## IN2SUN

ctoestreich said:


> Maybe I mis-spoke. I didn't have to get anything pressed in. The frame is already set up to directly handle the bearings. To couple against the bottom bearing you still need to put the crown race on the steer tube.


Hey ctoestreich, thanks for the visual. My headset has a little gap, not too bad. Should work. I understand about the fork crown race too, thanks!


----------



## livin4lax09

onegearqueer said:


> So one of these showed up in the area and I took a peek. I will be building it up for the guy. This one is a EM lxm knock off. Same geo numbers and such with english threads. I looked it over good and wow the craftsmanship is really nice! Drops out hold the wheel straight, inside the tubes are not sloppy, clearcoat is done well, all carbon fork, weight is as advertised. For 400 bucks + shipping f/f....man I feel robbed with my Orbea :blush2:
> 
> Could use a little hi-lite paint to spruce it up.
> 
> But of course there there will always be the question of trust worthy durability. Us cyclist feel if there is a brand name painted on it then it will not break and kill us. I stand by my sneeking hunch that a majority of the carbon frames out there are farmed out. It is just to easy for all these companys to be developing carbon frames so fast. They design a shape, have it made in the orient then labled as theirs...done.
> 
> Anyway..I to am curious how they build up, ride and hold up. Guess I will be answering it real soon......since i will prolly ride it before the owner does
> 
> Here are some pics


I have to say, I haven't been a huge fan of the frame design of any bikes I've seen so far, but this one I like. I'd be interested in seeing the finished build.


----------



## free945

raymonda said:


> The manufacturer of these bikes billed as Hasa are made by a company called Carbon Fiber Products out of China. Visit www.carbon-fiber-products.com.cn to view their website.


all these frame can be find in that website and not expensive.


----------



## -W-

*My first ever roadbike*

Hi to all!


Partly inspired this thread, I started to build my first roadbike about half years ago (I'm more towards mountainbikes).

Couple of months ago it was finally ready, but I had to wait untill last sunday to be able to test it. Reason for that is that I am living in Finland and it has been winter here (still quite much snow as you can see)!  


So this is my setup:

* "Kredo Kuota" carbon frame from eBay
* "Hasa" full carbon fork from eBay
* Shimano Ultergra SL Compact groupset
* FSA steering bearings
* Syntace stem & bar
* Edge carbon post
* Selle Italia 100 century seat
* Mavic Cosmic Elite wheels
* Scwalbe Stelvio tyres
* Carbon bottleholders from eBay
* CKR Titanium skewerts
* etc..

And here is some pictures:

EDIT: Pictures didn't work. Have to figure out how to post them here again..


----------



## livin4lax09

you put it in the snow? whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?!

just kidding, very nice bike. What skewers are those?

EDIT: just kidding, i got distracted by the pretty pictures and didn't even notice you listed the components :-D


----------



## -W-

New try! Hopefully you can see these pictures at this time:





























































Ps. There wasn't any snow at the road, but pretty much everywhere else.. :smilewinkgrin:


----------



## raymonda

Nice! Very nice!


----------



## lalahsghost

-W- said:


> New try! Hopefully you can see these pictures at this time:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ps. There wasn't any snow at the road, but pretty much everywhere else.. :smilewinkgrin:


I would be very proud to ride that myself~ :thumbsup: 

Thumbs up on the build!


----------



## 02tones02

Beautiful build!

Did you clear coat over the top of your decals????





-W- said:


> New try! Hopefully you can see these pictures at this time:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ps. There wasn't any snow at the road, but pretty much everywhere else.. :smilewinkgrin:


----------



## SleepyNinja

Okay so I ordered one of these Hasa frame and was wondering what IS headset standard is needed for this frame.


----------



## -W-

Decals are made from reflective vinyl and there is no clear coat on top of them. In some of the pictures it just looks that they have clear coat on top of them since they reflect the light from the cameras flash..:wink5: 

And what comes to IS headset, at least in my frame I used this kind of Campagnolo style FSA Orbit CE Plus headset:

1-1/8", 45° x 45° ACB
For 46mm OD headtube
1-1/8" steerer
Campag comaptible bearings (Yellow Seal)
carbon top cover
Stack height: 15.7 + 1 = 16.7mm


----------



## raymonda

SleepyNinja said:


> Okay so I ordered one of these Hasa frame and was wondering what IS headset standard is needed for this frame.


Depends on which frame you ordered. Some take Campy and some take CC.


----------



## lockwood1

Raymonda I'm trying to send you a PM.


----------



## SleepyNinja

raymonda said:


> Depends on which frame you ordered. Some take Campy and some take CC.


Looking back a couple pages I ordered the same frame you did in a size small.


----------



## raymonda

SleepyNinja said:


> Looking back a couple pages I ordered the same frame you did in a size small.


Then you will need a Cane Creek standard.


----------



## SleepyNinja

Awesome thanks


----------



## Walkinshaw

what size FD clamp have people used with these frames 32 or 35mm?


----------



## cww180

It is a 35


----------



## Walkinshaw

Cheers, odd that Ribble only has 32mm clamps for Campy Groupsets (centur/veloce)......


----------



## theone29

Walkinshaw said:


> what size FD clamp have people used with these frames 32 or 35mm?


i know on mine, it's a 34.9.


----------



## silicagel

to the 50cm kuota kredo-like frame owners:
could you please measure the distance between the BB and the front wheel base (yellow line)? thanks


www.imagebam.com/image/df8e2231371207


----------



## rydog9991

There are like 3 different sellers on ebay selling these frames. Which one did you all buy yours from. Also I would appreciate some help in getting the right size frame. I am currently riding a 56cm 2008 Fuji roubaix. Its a fine bike but I feel too stretched out. So since I cant afford a whole new bike to fix the problem, I thought one of the "Hasa" frames might work for the time being. I am 5'9" with inseam of around 31.5". I was thinking the L/55 might be the way to go or smaller? Thanks.


----------



## SleepyNinja

rydog9991 said:


> There are like 3 different sellers on ebay selling these frames. Which one did you all buy yours from. Also I would appreciate some help in getting the right size frame. I am currently riding a 56cm 2008 Fuji roubaix. Its a fine bike but I feel too stretched out. So since I cant afford a whole new bike to fix the problem, I thought one of the "Hasa" frames might work for the time being. I am 5'9" with inseam of around 31.5". I was thinking the L/55 might be the way to go or smaller? Thanks.


The seller I bought my 2 frames and forks from was itsall4sports (as did the other people).


----------



## SleepyNinja

Italianrider76 said:


> But isn't itsall4sports selling these frames at higher price than all the other sellers? I've seen them sell the Ebay Kredo for $499. Everyone else is selling it for about $340-$380.


The reason I purchased from itsall4sports is because other have ordered from their. I guess it also mostly because I don't like trying things that are not tested.


----------



## Italianrider76

SleepyNinja said:


> The seller I bought my 2 frames and forks from was itsall4sports (as did the other people).


 But isn't itsall4sports selling these frames at higher price than all the other sellers? I've seen them sell the Ebay Kredo for $499. Everyone else is selling it for about $340-$380.


----------



## tron

*I think they are selling these frames*

via pricepoint as Sette's? It looks similar to me at least and I would feel better buying through them for some reason although you have to deal with the logo.


----------



## chocy

rydog9991 said:


> There are like 3 different sellers on ebay selling these frames. Which one did you all buy yours from. Also I would appreciate some help in getting the right size frame. I am currently riding a 56cm 2008 Fuji roubaix. Its a fine bike but I feel too stretched out. So since I cant afford a whole new bike to fix the problem, I thought one of the "Hasa" frames might work for the time being. I am 5'9" with inseam of around 31.5". I was thinking the L/55 might be the way to go or smaller? Thanks.



I just built one myself. I am simailar build as you 5'9" with 30" inseam. I got me a 50cm Kredo frame with 52.5cm TT. I fits me perfectly. I really do not feel stretched out nor do I feel too upright with 11cm stem) I got this frame for almost same reason as you I had a Fuji Professional 55cm (57cm TT) and felt way too stretched out. With right stem length you will be better off with 50cm frame (that is if you want more agressive, racing position)


----------



## silicagel

chocy said:


> I just built one myself. I am simailar build as you 5'9" with 30" inseam. I got me a 50cm Kredo frame with 52.5cm TT. I fits me perfectly. I really do not feel stretched out nor do I feel too upright with 11cm stem) I got this frame for almost same reason as you I had a Fuji Professional 55cm (57cm TT) and felt way too stretched out. With right stem length you will be better off with 50cm frame (that is if you want more agressive, racing position)


Could you please measure the BB - fork base lenght in your 50cm frame? Thanks


----------



## chocy

silicagel said:


> Could you please measure the BB - fork base lenght in your 50cm frame? Thanks



It's about 57.6 cm on mine


----------



## Walkinshaw

I bit the bullet and orded one of these "kouta" frames 50cm (525mm TT). Im 5' 8.5" and currently on a 58cm Trek1200, so sould be a bit nicer on a bike that acutaly fits.

Will be combining it with Campag Centuar Carbon groupset, Campag Eurus tubless wheelset in black and a set of FSA K-wing bars. I'll throw a temporary stem and saddle on it untill I can find something I like. Will thow up photos once its together.

Now its all about colour, thinking of an all white frame set and black post, stem and bars (+white saddle/bar tape)


----------



## rydog9991

There are other guys selling these "Kuota" frames for cheaper than itsall4sports without the 2 year warranty and with a fork. You guys who already have the frames do you think that the warranty is worth it? I would imagine all the frames being sold are the same.


----------



## Don Duende

OK,

lalhsghost, raymonda, W and all you others that have built up and riding these unbranded Chinese carbon frames. Now it is time to post evaluations and comparisons to the other bikes you have thrown a leg over. How do these bikes compare to the others that cost many times more?


----------



## TallRider01

ok im 6'5" with a 36 inseam and i was wondering if the xl (58) would fit me ok. im looking to do my first road bike and tech first build up and this seems to be a good starting point if everything works out, that is.


----------



## My Own Private Idaho

TallRider01 said:


> ok im 6'5" with a 36 inseam and i was wondering if the xl (58) would fit me ok. im looking to do my first road bike and tech first build up and this seems to be a good starting point if everything works out, that is.



Even if the frame is a true compact that's probably too small. Have you tried any fit calculators yet?


----------



## evancds

Hey I just got one of the kuota frames and I got a question. Where did you guys get the cable guide that goes under the bottom bracket?


----------



## SleepyNinja

I went to my local bike shop to get my bottom bracket derailluer guide.


----------



## Walkinshaw

Mine came with a plastic bracket under the BB.


----------



## chocy

Mine also came with the cable guide

Here are the pics of my build, 50cm Kredo frame 

It's all black stealth build with cork tape (cork color) This make it "pure material build" 

about 16.5 lbs. Very light (considering the money I spent on it (around $1000 total) very solid and very fast. but still smooth.

I had a fuji professional before and this one is far far superior to that Fuji carbon frame in its stiffness and even the smoothness of the ride.


----------



## Don Duende

chocy said:


> Mine also came with the cable guide
> 
> Here are the pics of my build, 50cm Kredo frame
> 
> It's all black stealth build with cork tape (cork color) This make it "pure material build"
> 
> about 16.5 lbs. Very light (considering the money I spent on it (around $1000 total) very solid and very fast. but still smooth.
> 
> I had a fuji professional before and this one is far far superior to that Fuji carbon frame in its stiffness and even the smoothness of the ride.



Have you had opportunity to ride other bikes and compare? How about a more in depth ride evaluation?


----------



## jacks6514

blazer said:


> Has anyone seen, heard, or purchased one of these frames. For $479 and 950g they looked interesting. Thanks for any input.


Blazer,
Ihave been looking at alot of carbon frames lately one for myself to build and have looked at these but I shyed away because most of them have to ship from over seas. They are probably good frames though


----------



## TempestRS4

chocy, would you mind answerering a few questions?\

1. How tall are you
2. What is your inseam and how much standover clearance do you have
3. What is your saddle height, (from center of bottomr bracket along the seat tube to the top of the saddle)
4. What length stem are you running?
5. What kind of headset did you get and which diameter seatpost collar

Thanks! I ordered one of these as well and had a few questions. Can't wait to get it and post some pics!


----------



## chocy

OK more detail eh?

All right summary of my set up
it is a very mix and match setup but works great for me

frame- ebay carbon frame 50cm seat tube, 52.5 cm TT
fork- ebay carbon fork with carbon steerer (bought it as fork, seatpost package)
SRAM force crankset 170mm
Fuji pro light handle bar 42cm (I revmoed the decal with acetone)
Richey WCS 110mm stem
Shimano 105 Triple STI shifters
Shimano Ultegra SS RD
Shimano Dura-Ace FD 34.9mm bracket
Shimano 105 11-23 cassette
Cane Creek SCR-3 Brake
ebay seatpost (package seatpost with no setback, 300g)
Selle Italia SLK saddle 
Neuvation Aero4 Wheels
Shimano A520 Pedals
ebay carbon water cage
fsa headset


*and more detailed ride comment*

So far I have 150miles on it. 
As I said before I had a Fuji Professional frame (high modulus C4 carbon) but I wanted more agreesive positioned ride. I also had some steel frame and aluminum MTN bikes before. So I cannot give a good comparison to any expensive carbon bikes (Cervelo or Orbea comes to mind) But I have to say I am very satisfied.

The finish of the frame was not perfect but not shabby either. As matter of fact, It had about same or slightly better finish than my fuji professional. all the attached parts (housing mounts) were decent quality. Considering the cost There is absolutely nothing to complain about it.

To give some idea about the way I ride, on my Kurt fluid trainer, my currentFT is about 250-280W depending on my condition and I like my cadence around 70-80 RPM. 

First thing I noticed when compared to my Fuji is that this bike is much much more stiff. Pedaling is deliberate and crisp. SRAM force made a great frame-crankset combination both in function and the look. The bike pretty much feels like the whole thing is made out of one piece but not to the point where it feels like you can count sand grains under your tires. In fact the ride is very very smooth and observes road vibrations very well, I think it is even better damped (closer to clitical damping in engineering term) compared to flexy (relative term) Fuji. the bike goes very straight, and stable at 30+ MPH, I have not gone to my favorite downhill to go over 35MPH yet. I have to say this bike is good 5% faster than my old Fuji bike. 

One thing that I noticed though was that fork feels a bit more spingly when compared to Fuji F770 fork. I am not sure whether it is due to carbon steerer or what (Fuji has Alloy steerer) but when I break or go over bumps I do feel a little more residual vibration/flex from the fork, but not to the level I would be concerned about going fast. 

My longest ride on this frame so far was a 60 mile ride along 9W and in central park and I came back home without any pain or fatigue (I felt I could go for another 30-40 easily) and went out with my wife for rest of the day. (more walking in the city) 

So far I llllove the bike and I do not think I will be tempted to buy another frame for a while for a road bike. (I may get a titanium commuter bike frame at some point.) 

The one I bought did not come with any warrenty but I figured, the chance of frame failure is pretty slim (as long as you keep good maintainence schedule and check your bike before riding) and even if it broke getting another frame comes out cheaper than those expensive bikes anyway.




TempestRS4.

1. How tall are you --> I am 5' 9"

2. What is your inseam and how much standover clearance do you have --> My inseam is 30" and I have about (may be a little less) than 5cm clearance on my barefoot (with no socks or anything) near head tube (highest point of the TT) I think I have about 8-10cm clearance with shoes on (very comfortable with absolutely no threat to the family jewle.

3. What is your saddle height, (from center of bottomr bracket along the seat tube to the top of the saddle) --> I have it at 71.6cm but I had it a bit higher before (still tweaking a little. (ball park of 71.5 to 72.5 range.)


4. What length stem are you running? --> I am running 110mm 6degree stem. I found the head tube height to be a little short for my comfort so I needed all the height I could get. even after some spacers
I think I might be OK or be more comfortable with 120mm


5. What kind of headset did you get and which diameter seatpost collar --> I have a FSA orbit headset (campy compatible) it works well.


----------



## tbong27

*Weight?*

Hi Chocy!

How much does your 50cm frameset weigh ? is it 1050gms like they said but i think they used the same weight for all the frames. 
Tom


----------



## thomasegarcia

*my chia girl*

i havent seen any one with this bike yet....


----------



## lalahsghost

thomasegarcia said:


> i havent seen any one with this bike yet....


Love those white tires!


----------



## Italianrider76

Hey Chocy, great job on the build....what is the size of the dérailleur clamp for this frame??
Cheers


----------



## chocy

moved to below


----------



## chocy

tbong27 said:


> Hi Chocy!
> 
> How much does your 50cm frameset weigh ? is it 1050gms like they said but i think they used the same weight for all the frames.
> Tom


Tom, 

My frame as it came was 1105g. This includes the bottom plastic cable guide. So I say it is well within the tolerance in my book.

The fork weights 358 g after cutting the steerer. and 300g for the seatpost.

Ingeneral it is a very light setup.




Italianrider76 said:


> Hey Chocy, great job on the build....what is the size of the dérailleur clamp for this frame??
> Cheers


Thanks, Front derailleure clamp is 34.9 mm..


----------



## tbong27

sorry just saw the answer.


----------



## TempestRS4

what about the seat post collar size?


----------



## rydog9991

hmmm... this looks farmiliar. 
http://www.roadbikeoutlet.com/road-bikes/gavin-linea-full-carbon-road-racing-bike.html


----------



## velomateo

Okay - here's mine. I just finished building it up yesterday. I went for a ride this morning and it rides, climbs and sprints great. My last bike was a LOOK KG461 and this bike rides as well as the KG and even better in some areas, especially when climbing out of the saddle. Prior to this purchase I had the chance to test a Specialized Tarmac, which was really nice and majorly stiff - this frame is not that stiff but more so than the LOOK.
I ordered this frame on a Saturday and it arrived on the following Friday. The packaging was adequate and I did not have to pay any additional import fees. The auction included water bottles cages and carbon seat collar (which was not sent and I am still waiting for it). The frames finish is nice, no real blems to speak of. It did have some mystery sticky stuff on it that came off, but it took quite a bit of rubbing. There was excess clear coat on the head tube bearing races that I sanded out to get them to fit correctly. The fork had some issues. First off the right drop out wasn't machined completely and would not accept the wheel. I checked it with my calipers and it was 0.20 mm smaller than the left. I could see the side that was thicker, so I filed it out to match the other. The other problem was when I was trying to install the fork race, again excess clear coat requiring some sanding to allow the race to fit. 
I built this up with the Chorus 10 group that came off my LOOK. I did need to replace the f/d to one with a 35mm clamp and a new larger diameter seat post. When installing the f/d I found that the seat tube bottle mounts are a little low, and one is off to right a bit, and the f/d was making contact with the cage that was already installed. I used some old stem nuts as stand-offs to get the clearance I needed. According to the bathroom scale, weight is 16.8 lb.s - as pictured.
I found the Intense decals on ebay, from England. While shopping/researching this frame I found info on the Intense Fenix frame...which I don't think they sell any more. The construction was very similar, except the Fenix uses classic geometry. I felt the decals would break up the black and I was already planning to use the Vitoria Rubino Pros in 
white...so it all worked aesthetically. 
<a href="https://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/new%20bike/?action=view&current=newbike001.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/new%20bike/newbike001.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


----------



## thomasegarcia

velomateo said:


> Okay - here's mine. I just finished building it up yesterday. I went for a ride this morning and it rides, climbs and sprints great. My last bike was a LOOK KG461 and this bike rides as well as the KG and even better in some areas, especially when climbing out of the saddle. Prior to this purchase I had the chance to test a Specialized Tarmac, which was really nice and majorly stiff - this frame is not that stiff but more so than the LOOK.
> I ordered this frame on a Saturday and it arrived on the following Friday. The packaging was adequate and I did not have to pay any additional import fees. The auction included water bottles cages and carbon seat collar (which was not sent and I am still waiting for it). The frames finish is nice, no real blems to speak of. It did have some mystery sticky stuff on it that came off, but it took quite a bit of rubbing. There was excess clear coat on the head tube bearing races that I sanded out to get them to fit correctly. The fork had some issues. First off the right drop out wasn't machined completely and would not accept the wheel. I checked it with my calipers and it was 0.20 mm smaller than the left. I could see the side that was thicker, so I filed it out to match the other. The other problem was when I was trying to install the fork race, again excess clear coat requiring some sanding to allow the race to fit.
> I built this up with the Chorus 10 group that came off my LOOK. I did need to replace the f/d to one with a 35mm clamp and a new larger diameter seat post. When installing the f/d I found that the seat tube bottle mounts are a little low, and one is off to right a bit, and the f/d was making contact with the cage that was already installed. I used some old stem nuts as stand-offs to get the clearance I needed. According to the bathroom scale, weight is 16.8 lb.s - as pictured.
> I found the Intense decals on ebay, from England. While shopping/researching this frame I found info on the Intense Fenix frame...which I don't think they sell any more. The construction was very similar, except the Fenix uses classic geometry. I felt the decals would break up the black and I was already planning to use the Vitoria Rubino Pros in
> white...so it all worked aesthetically.
> <a href="https://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/new%20bike/?action=view&current=newbike001.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/new%20bike/newbike001.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


thats exactly the same as mine glad to see another. i did not have to do any sanding or finishing though mine came perfect, looks like there getting there act together! you said it looks like a Intense Fenix i will have to look that up cause i have not found a model to match it to. your bike looks clean, im happy that you posted it. do you have any more pics?


----------



## kr1zje

I noticed that fact to on my frame: "and one is off to right a bit".


----------



## Walkinshaw

I weighed mine yesterday

Uncut fork = 384g
frame + Seat post + Clamp = 1446g


----------



## silicagel

Walkinshaw said:


> I weighed mine yesterday
> 
> Uncut fork = 384g
> frame + Seat post + Clamp = 1446g


how did you cut the fork (which tool)?


----------



## Walkinshaw

its not cut yet (awaiting groupo etc).


----------



## velomateo

I used a Rigid tubing cutter. The blade is not large enough to completely penetrate through the steer tube but I was able to finish it off with a few strokes of my coping saw. The tubing cutter leaves a perfectly straight grove about 90% through the steer tube. I have cut two other carbon forks the same way.


----------



## Italianrider76

*Hole under bottom bracket???*

I just took delivery of one of those Ebay Kredo frames and noticed a very small hole bellow the bottom bracket right near the cable guide. It doesn't seem to be machined. I don't think it's supposed to be there. I'm just concerned that it may start developing into a crack. Do any other owners of the same frame have the same problem??? Here's a pic

Cheers


----------



## livin4lax09

that's where the fd cable goes.


----------



## Italianrider76

livin4lax09 said:


> that's where the fd cable goes.


But where does it come out? I'm more familiar with alloy frames.

Cheers


----------



## chocy

TempestRS4 said:


> what about the seat post collar size?


seatpost is 31.6mm




Italianrider76 said:


> But where does it come out? I'm more familiar with alloy frames.


that is where FD cable goes There is a small hole on the top where it comes out. but I have to say the finish quality on yours look a bit worse than mine mine had a very smooth looking pin hole....

I would not worry about crank developing. Most of carbon frames have this hole including my fuji professional.

Good luck with your build I love mine.


----------



## Italianrider76

chocy said:


> seatpost is 31.6mm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that is where FD cable goes There is a small hole on the top where it comes out. but I have to say the finish quality on yours look a bit worse than mine mine had a very smooth looking pin hole....
> 
> I would not worry about crank developing. Most of carbon frames have this hole including my fuji professional.
> 
> Good luck with your build I love mine.


Is this where the cable comes out??? It doesn't seem like much of a hole but rather a glitch in the paint. Thanks for your help!!!


----------



## Italianrider76

I've just worked it all out!! Thanks for your help again!.


----------



## rydog9991

What torque spec are you guys using on your front derailleur clamp? Don't really feel like crushing my seat tube. Thanks.


----------



## fogliettaz

I have just assembled this bike after I started reading this thread about 4/5 weeks ago. The frame, fork and seat post were delivered to the UK for less than $400.00 in under six days I have since assembled the bike but yet to ride it as I still have a few tweaks to do. The complete build came in at approx £800.00 ($1200.00US) with Campagnolo Veloce groupset and Khamsin wheels, Cinelli Bar and stem and a Fizik saddle. I hope to get a ride in tomorrow or over the next week. I am very happy with the quality of the frame and am very tempted to build a MTB with a frame from the same supplier.

http://gallery.roadbikereview.com/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=334524


----------



## Snakebitten

fogliettaz said:


> I have just assembled this bike after I started reading this thread about 4/5 weeks ago. The frame, fork and seat post were delivered to the UK for less than $400.00 in under six days I have since assembled the bike but yet to ride it as I still have a few tweaks to do. The complete build came in at approx £800.00 ($1200.00US) with Campagnolo Veloce groupset and Khamsin wheels, Cinelli Bar and stem and a Fizik saddle. I hope to get a ride in tomorrow or over the next week. I am very happy with the quality of the frame and am very tempted to build a MTB with a frame from the same supplier.
> 
> http://gallery.roadbikereview.com/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=334524



Those photos are pathetically small. Cant see anything worthwhile in them. Got any bigger pics that show off the bike? Thanks. Sounds like you got a great value on this build. Congrats


----------



## fogliettaz

Here are some better photos,

http://gallery.roadbikereview.com/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=334524


----------



## rydog9991

Just finished my budget build. Swapped almost everything over from my Fuji Roubaix that was too big for me. Just one pic for now.


----------



## RoadBikeVirgin

Are those badgeless M28 Aero3's with Conti GP4000 tires? Just like my Synapse 

Build looks great!


----------



## TempestRS4

rydog, what do you think your rig weighs? Is it lighter than the old rig with the same components? also, what headset are you using?


----------



## rydog9991

RoadBikeVirgin said:


> Are those badgeless M28 Aero3's with Conti GP4000 tires? Just like my Synapse
> 
> Build looks great!



Thanks! Close on the wheels, M28 Aero3's in the rear with R28 Aero4 front on Gatorskin ulstras.


----------



## rydog9991

TempestRS4 said:


> rydog, what do you think your rig weighs? Is it lighter than the old rig with the same components? also, what headset are you using?



Id say it weighs a pound or so less than the old rig. Maybe 17.5 pounds or so haven't gotten it on the scale yet. I was able to use the OEM Cane Creek headset made for my Fuji. But off the shelf you will need to get a Campy compatible 45/45 degree with 42mm ID and 46mm OD.


----------



## bullgtr

*Frame size*

rydog9991,

would you post your height and also the size of your new bike build ? 

Congratz your bike is looking nice !!!


----------



## RoadBikeVirgin

rydog9991 said:


> Thanks! Close on the wheels, M28 Aero3's in the rear with R28 Aero4 front on Gatorskin ulstras.


Good choices  I've got GP4000's on my Synapse and GP 4-season's going on my CAAD build. I think my next set of tires will either be gatorskins or Vittoria Rubino Pro II's (in 25 width).


----------



## rydog9991

Thanks! I am just under 5'9" and I got the 52cm frame with the 53cm top tube. I was on a 56cm Fuji and was way too stretched out so this feels much better.


----------



## erics1971

*itsall4sport no longer on ebay*

hi everyone,

reading this thread with great interest - just looking to get a new bike and noted the thread and the kuota kredo oem frame.

it seems itsall4sports is no longer on ebay....

any other seller where I can get these frames??

thanks in advance

eric


----------



## TempestRS4

i purchased mine from maniac_bicycle for 380 inc shipping. it took about a week to get here. i'll post pics of the build when its finished, just waiting on a few parts


----------



## Italianrider76

Hey rydog....great looking build. Did the holes for the front derailleur cable under and behind the bottom bracket area look nice and neat (done by a machine) on yours or did they look rough like the pic I posted? 

Cheers


----------



## bullgtr

*Frame*

I am thinking to buy this frame ... Any of you guys have any build with this frame ???

I am 5'9" and looking to buy a 54 and TT550... This is what I am riding and pretty happy with my stance ... Anyone can comment ??? Because I am seeing lot of people with my height going to 52 and TT530...


----------



## chocy

I think it would depend on how flexible you are

I am 5'9" with 30" inseam

I originally had 55cm FUJI professional with 57 cm top tube. which was ridable but I felt way stretched out. I would defintly have a neck pain after 30 miles and the steering felt twitch (had to do with riding with my hands not always at the shifter which was too far to hold all the time) but still sluggish turning. (worst combination if you ask me) Now I have 50cm with 52.5cm TT. Which fits me much better.No one will tell you that 54cm is too big for you but I say if you want more flexibility of fitting, slightly smaller frame is better. you can always raise the seatpost and get longer stem. There is a limit to how short you can get on both stem and seatpost.


----------



## rydog9991

Italianrider76 said:


> Hey rydog....great looking build. Did the holes for the front derailleur cable under and behind the bottom bracket area look nice and neat (done by a machine) on yours or did they look rough like the pic I posted?
> 
> Cheers



It looked kind of rough like yours. I just made sure to clear away any sharpe edges and it seems to be just fine. I got lucky and was able to thread it through the hole on the first try.


----------



## bullgtr

*another photo ??*

Hey rydog,

sorry to bug you ... but I am very concern of buying a frame 54 or 52 .. Would you be able to send me a photo of you riding the bike ? In this way I will be able to see how it fits for you...

I want to buy my frame before the end of the month.

thanks a lot
Leonardo


----------



## rydog9991

bullgtr said:


> Hey rydog,
> 
> sorry to bug you ... but I am very concern of buying a frame 54 or 52 .. Would you be able to send me a photo of you riding the bike ? In this way I will be able to see how it fits for you...
> 
> I want to buy my frame before the end of the month.
> 
> thanks a lot
> Leonardo



Wow do I look like a tool! Oh well here I am world for everyone to see. Just got back from my second ride with the bike and thought I would answer the calling to be seen. Also thought I would represent the RBR. Oh yeah by the way the bike rides great! Much stiffer than I expected it to be.


----------



## Italianrider76

Hey rydog, thanks for your reply concerning the cable hole. Are you in Australia?? That looks like a typical bachelor pad here man. Bikes, LCD TV and of course IKEA furniture.


----------



## rydog9991

Italianrider76 said:


> Hey rydog, thanks for your reply concerning the cable hole. Are you in Australia?? That looks like a typical bachelor pad here man. Bikes, LCD TV and of course IKEA furniture.



Your welcome. I'm in Portland, Oregon. Got to have all the bachelor pad essentials you know. As for the furniture, those swiss sure know what we like.


----------



## Italianrider76

rydog9991 said:


> As for the furniture, those swiss sure know what we like.


Ahem.....you mean Swedish


----------



## Walkinshaw

chocy said:


> I think it would depend on how flexible you are
> 
> I am 5'9" with 30" inseam
> 
> I originally had 55cm FUJI professional with 57 cm top tube. which was ridable but I felt way stretched out. I would defintly have a neck pain after 30 miles and the steering felt twitch (had to do with riding with my hands not always at the shifter which was too far to hold all the time) but still sluggish turning. (worst combination if you ask me) Now I have 50cm with 52.5cm TT. Which fits me much better.No one will tell you that 54cm is too big for you but I say if you want more flexibility of fitting, slightly smaller frame is better. you can always raise the seatpost and get longer stem. There is a limit to how short you can get on both stem and seatpost.


I'm similar, I'm just under 5'9" with a 31.5' inseam so i have a reasonably short torso (thats my excuse for the beer gut anyway). I was riding a 58cm trek 1200 and forever had sore neck & upper back, switched out to a short 80mm stem which helped but this totaly ruined the bikes handeling. Like you said there is a limit to how short and how low a seat post can effectivly be (my 1200 looked rediclious).

I ended up going with the 50cm (52.5cm TT) frame which with a 120mm stem should be perfect.


----------



## Walkinshaw

Italianrider76 said:


> Hey rydog, thanks for your reply concerning the cable hole. Are you in Australia?? That looks like a typical bachelor pad here man. Bikes, LCD TV and of course IKEA furniture.


STOP LOOKING IN MY WINDOW!  All Australians males living on their own must be the same. My loungeroom consists of a 'hand me down couch' two bikes, a bunch of parts and a 50" panel TV.


----------



## bullgtr

*Thanks Rydog*

Thanks a lot rydog for the photos !!!! Now I am ready to score one of those frames...

When I get everything ready I will post a pic...

thanks
Leo


----------



## erics1971

thanks a lot .


----------



## Italianrider76

Walkinshaw said:


> STOP LOOKING IN MY WINDOW!  All Australians males living on their own must be the same. My loungeroom consists of a 'hand me down couch' two bikes, a bunch of parts and a 50" panel TV.



Haha......we're all the same!


----------



## HeluvaSkier

I'm kind-of infrequent here but I just built one of these frames up for my girlfriend. I figured I'd share a little... 










As it stands it is about 17.5lbs ready to ride (pedals and computer included). I built it up with full Campy Veloce (accept a Mirage CT FD). The bars and seat post came stock with the frame. The wheels are Xero XR-1's. The bars are decent for what they are but the seat post was a little heavy and didn't fit the seat tube very well (too big). All things considered though, the frames are a great deal. The total cost was about $1200. I don't think that for a bike of this level you can beat that very many places. 

I've only put a few test miles on the bike to make sure everything was working properly, but so far I am really impressed with the ride of the bike.


----------



## sasquatch12

so what ebay seller are you guys getting the frames from?


----------



## fogliettaz

Mine came from bicycle_999 excellent service Frame fork and seat post $340.00 + postage.


----------



## silicagel

sasquatch12 said:


> so what ebay seller are you guys getting the frames from?


itsallforsports (that of 2 years warranty...) has just disappeared


----------



## kr1zje

Don't worry about warranty, i send the e-mail to one person from itsallforsports and i got the answer.

My question:
"Hi, Your ebay account are no longer active, people on forums speculated that 2 years warranty dissapeared. Can you provide me some information?"

And the answer:
"the fox racing company let the ebay cancelled those gloves and suspend our ebay account, said that the gloves we are selling is too cheap, we are working on these, they told us the it will be back 6 days later
and actually we are planning to build up our own online shopping website, buyers will get up to 10% discount on that new website
please keep contact with us and if you can give us advice on the website issue, we apprciate that
Thanks a lot

we can still do the order by email and paypal now, it's very easy, just let us know what item you want and what size you want, then
we can send paypal invoice to you.
and if you only want to do the order on ebay, please wait until next monday then we will be back on ebay
Thanks
We can still do the order by email and paypal now, it's very easy, just let us know if you have any problem about that

we will still be able to provide 2 years warranty, please help us to declare on the forum that we will be back soon"

Like you can see this isn't permanent


----------



## velomateo

HeluvaSkier said:


> I'm kind-of infrequent here but I just built one of these frames up for my girlfriend. I figured I'd share a little...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As it stands it is about 17.5lbs ready to ride (pedals and computer included). I built it up with full Campy Veloce (accept a Mirage CT FD). The bars and seat post came stock with the frame. The wheels are Xero XR-1's. The bars are decent for what they are but the seat post was a little heavy and didn't fit the seat tube very well (too big). All things considered though, the frames are a great deal. The total cost was about $1200. I don't think that for a bike of this level you can beat that very many places.
> 
> I've only put a few test miles on the bike to make sure everything was working properly, but so far I am really impressed with the ride of the bike.


How does the ebay frame compare to your KTM?


----------



## HeluvaSkier

I bought mine from bikebicycle99. Shipping was impressively fast (something like 5 - 6 days after the auction ended the frame arrived at my office).


----------



## HeluvaSkier

velomateo said:


> How does the ebay frame compare to your KTM?


My initial impression is that the eBay frame is softer, especially the seat stays... although the Hasa fork might be slightly more laterally stiff than the KTM fork. I still prefer my Strada though.


----------



## Italianrider76

Although there are several different sellers of these frames, it seems some of them come from the same place. I bought the frame from bicycle_999 and a stem and handle bar from another seller with a different name (can't remember the name) who also happens to sell the same frame. When the frame and stem/handlebar arrived, although in separate boxes the sender address was the same for both.


----------



## dexdes

*Headset standard?*



HeluvaSkier said:


> I'm kind-of infrequent here but I just built one of these frames up for my girlfriend. I figured I'd share a little...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As it stands it is about 17.5lbs ready to ride (pedals and computer included). I built it up with full Campy Veloce (accept a Mirage CT FD). The bars and seat post came stock with the frame. The wheels are Xero XR-1's. The bars are decent for what they are but the seat post was a little heavy and didn't fit the seat tube very well (too big). All things considered though, the frames are a great deal. The total cost was about $1200. I don't think that for a bike of this level you can beat that very many places.
> 
> I've only put a few test miles on the bike to make sure everything was working properly, but so far I am really impressed with the ride of the bike.


I just purchased my pseudo-Kredo thru bikebicycle99. What integrated headset standard - Campy or Cane Creek - did you use for your girlfriend's build? Thanks --


----------



## rydog9991

dexdes said:


> I just purchased my pseudo-Kredo thru bikebicycle99. What integrated headset standard - Campy or Cane Creek - did you use for your girlfriend's build? Thanks --



It should be campy....mine was


----------



## HeluvaSkier

dexdes said:


> I just purchased my pseudo-Kredo thru bikebicycle99. What integrated headset standard - Campy or Cane Creek - did you use for your girlfriend's build? Thanks --


Campy. I actually purchased a Cane Creek is-2 initially but my LBS switched it out for me for a campy. Get a Campy.


----------



## Walkinshaw

I used an FSA headset (campy compatiable 45/45deg)


----------



## Walkinshaw

needs a new saddle, bar tape, pedals and a shorter stem (current one is 130mm, need 110ish) - and a propper cable routing job (cable housing cutter is blunt)

debating wether to go black seat, black pedals and black bar tape. or White saddle, white bar tape and white pedals. thoughts?


----------



## silicagel

Walkinshaw said:


> needs a new saddle, bar tape, pedals and a shorter stem (current one is 130mm, need 110ish) - and a propper cable routing job (cable housing cutter is blunt)
> 
> debating wether to go black seat, black pedals and black bar tape. or White saddle, white bar tape and white pedals. thoughts?


white saddle and tape, black pedals, definitely. or grey saddle and tape? no, all blacks with titanium seatpost and stem. and grey bartape. mmmm...


----------



## Italianrider76

Have you guys assembled these bikes yourselves or did you take them to your LBS???


----------



## HeluvaSkier

I did my own. I also built the KTM you can see in the background of the pic I posted, as well as a few other bikes. It is pretty simple. My LBS did mount the headset and fork for me though. 

As for colors... I like the black-on-black looks that these frames have when they are built up... very stealthy.


----------



## rydog9991

Italianrider76 said:


> Have you guys assembled these bikes yourselves or did you take them to your LBS???



built my own.


----------



## Walkinshaw

Built mine at home (probably why its been 95% complete for a week.....)


----------



## ILikeBike

Breaking my cherry here! Ooooo... feels good the first time!

So I'm about to take the plunge on one of these myself. I've been riding a 1995 CroMo Bianchi Peregrine mtn bike w/Rock Shox Mag 21 since... the 1995. I have found myself in the last several years doing a helluva lot of road riding on it and not really any mountain biking (Mid 30s)

My last road bike was a late 80s Bianchi something (I can't remember!) it was white, 12 sp. index shifters and I traded it with a '71 Fiat in '95 for the Bianchi Peregrine. Peregrine still works, I should call Bruce and find out about that Fiat. It barely worked then so...

I have a 2008 Centaur 10pc group on the way that I just couldn't stop myself from bidding on, so that became the first purchase.(I wanted Campy, I got Campy, I build around Campy!) I then just got super excited at 2:30AM when I saw a set of Fulcrum 5's pop up on Bonktown and pounced. In my haste, did no realize Shimano/SRAM compatible, waiting to hear back re: canceling, but never had to do that before, not sure they're stance on that and I feel dumb, really dumb. So psyched to see that pop up while online scoping out Brit sites for Wheels and having lost several items while looking over details on SAC sites, I just reacted with credit card digi's. No more lament, on to the project. I've always wanted to build a bike from scratch, especially with Campy group, so I started with said Campy and now would like to move on to one of these fine factory direct crazy spidey looking things!

I am just under 5'7". I've basically seen 2 models on EBay in last several days and the size is either 50 in this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Carbon-Road-Bike-Frame-50CM-Fork-Seatpost-2-cages_W0QQitemZ270379836616QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRoad_Bikes?hash=item270379836616&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50

or 48/51 in this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=260399742583

The nice, quick response from China last night said the 50, I took that as they have more of them and need to move some of that size/model which looks like the Kuota. The 48/51 looks like a lot of frames to me. Anyhoo, I'm torn on the size/model, but was initially leaning towards the 48, figuring err on side of smaller, can always jack post and get longer stem. I unfortunately can't just go down and take it for a spin. I've always had steel bikes, have never been in love with aluminum ride when I've ridden it and really want to give carbon a go, I mean, me no likey, me sell on Craigslist and bite the bullet on a Ti frame while calling it my bike for life. Or at least until the kids are out of college.

Oh great online community who love to share their wisdom, please regale me with your comments and ramblings... in return I promise to post pics of this rig when it is built, although it will look more or less like many/most of these other pics. Ninja Black.

HeluvaSkier! Nice to see you from Epic ;-)

I figure a first post should have some length and that I certainly have accomplished. Thanks for all that I have already learned in reading through this site while not studying for my finals this week! And thanks for any advice in advance.
E


----------



## rook

ILikeBike said:


> Breaking my cherry here! Ooooo... feels good the first time!
> 
> So I'm about to take the plunge on one of these myself. I've been riding a 1995 CroMo Bianchi Peregrine mtn bike w/Rock Shox Mag 21 since... the 1995. I have found myself in the last several years doing a helluva lot of road riding on it and not really any mountain biking (Mid 30s)
> 
> My last road bike was a late 80s Bianchi something (I can't remember!) it was white, 12 sp. index shifters and I traded it with a '71 Fiat in '95 for the Bianchi Peregrine. Peregrine still works, I should call Bruce and find out about that Fiat. It barely worked then so...
> 
> I have a 2008 Centaur 10pc group on the way that I just couldn't stop myself from bidding on, so that became the first purchase.(I wanted Campy, I got Campy, I build around Campy!) I then just got super excited at 2:30AM when I saw a set of Fulcrum 5's pop up on Bonktown and pounced. In my haste, did no realize Shimano/SRAM compatible, waiting to hear back re: canceling, but never had to do that before, not sure they're stance on that and I feel dumb, really dumb. So psyched to see that pop up while online scoping out Brit sites for Wheels and having lost several items while looking over details on SAC sites, I just reacted with credit card digi's. No more lament, on to the project. I've always wanted to build a bike from scratch, especially with Campy group, so I started with said Campy and now would like to move on to one of these fine factory direct crazy spidey looking things!
> 
> I am just under 5'7". I've basically seen 2 models on EBay in last several days and the size is either 50 in this one:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Carbon-Road-Bike-Frame-50CM-Fork-Seatpost-2-cages_W0QQitemZ270379836616QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRoad_Bikes?hash=item270379836616&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50
> 
> or 48/51 in this one:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=260399742583
> 
> The nice, quick response from China last night said the 50, I took that as they have more of them and need to move some of that size/model which looks like the Kuota. The 48/51 looks like a lot of frames to me. Anyhoo, I'm torn on the size/model, but was initially leaning towards the 48, figuring err on side of smaller, can always jack post and get longer stem. I unfortunately can't just go down and take it for a spin. I've always had steel bikes, have never been in love with aluminum ride when I've ridden it and really want to give carbon a go, I mean, me no likey, me sell on Craigslist and bite the bullet on a Ti frame while calling it my bike for life. Or at least until the kids are out of college.
> 
> Oh great online community who love to share their wisdom, please regale me with your comments and ramblings... in return I promise to post pics of this rig when it is built, although it will look more or less like many/most of these other pics. Ninja Black.
> 
> HeluvaSkier! Nice to see you from Epic ;-)
> 
> I figure a first post should have some length and that I certainly have accomplished. Thanks for all that I have already learned in reading through this site while not studying for my finals this week! And thanks for any advice in advance.
> E



The problem with the eBay bike you linked to is that you wouldn't know what the Horizontal Top Tube measurement is. There is a listed top tube measurement, but you have no idea if this is the measured top tube of the compact frame, or the virtual horizontal top tube measurement.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

ILikeBike said:


> HeluvaSkier! Nice to see you from Epic ;-)
> 
> E


Good to see you as well. Cycling is what keeps me in shape for that "other sport" I do in the winter.


----------



## SleepyNinja

Italianrider76 said:


> Have you guys assembled these bikes yourselves or did you take them to your LBS???


Yup I built my bike myself even set the crown race  and also bought a bunch of tools. It was fun too bad it only lasted a couple hrs. Now I wanna build another bike seriously it was a lot of fun.


----------



## sand101

Has anyone seen a frame (frame only) like this one anywhere?

Nice looking frame. Don't so much like the bits that come with that particular bike, though.


----------



## ILikeBike

rook said:


> The problem with the eBay bike you linked to is that you wouldn't know what the Horizontal Top Tube measurement is. There is a listed top tube measurement, but you have no idea if this is the measured top tube of the compact frame, or the virtual horizontal top tube measurement.


I agree this is a problem and was one of my concerns. There are many in this thread however that have purchased these that I'm hoping can help answer that.

HeluvaSkier: I was looking, even before reading your post, at the same ebay seller you bought your GF's frame from. Would you mind terribly sharing the frame size and Horizontal TT measurement and whether it was the measured TT of the compact frame or virtual horizontal TT measurement as Rook has pointed out is a concern? (BTW: I'm ILikeSki at Epic, ILikeSki and Bike! I like golf too, but it apparently hates me!)

Oh yeah, Bonktown was very gracious with my middle of the night faux pas and canceled my order. Now I can go back to debating wheelsets again


----------



## HeluvaSkier

ILikeBike said:


> HeluvaSkier: I was looking, even before reading your post, at the same ebay seller you bought your GF's frame from. Would you mind terribly sharing the frame size and Horizontal TT measurement and whether it was the measured TT of the compact frame or virtual horizontal TT measurement as Rook has pointed out is a concern? (BTW: I'm ILikeSki at Epic, ILikeSki and Bike! I like golf too, but it apparently hates me!)
> 
> Oh yeah, Bonktown was very gracious with my middle of the night faux pas and canceled my order. Now I can go back to debating wheelsets again


The frame size is the 52. She is 5'8". We were debating between the 50 and 52 and decided on the slightly larger frame because of two reasons - 1) it seemed much closer to her current frame size and 2) we were afraid that two full sized water bottles might not fit in the smaller frame very well. I'll measure when I get home today. 

For wheels (if cost is an issue) I would consider looking at Neuvation for good all-round strong wheels.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

~527mm (virtual) from my crude measurements.


----------



## zgrinch

*Frame for my wife*

Looking for a frame for my wife - 5'6" . She fit best on the specialized ruby 54cm (480mm seat,537top tube.) Got design specs from bike_bicycle999 for 50,52 & 54. None look like they will work for her, but I am posting FYI. Or am I mistaken ?


54cm








52cm








50cm


----------



## ILikeBike

That's the one! There are a couple of different models floating around from several "different" ebay sellers, but all of them appear to have the same 2 or 3 different models with slightly different pricing, the 50/52/54 "Kuota", the 48/51/54 and there's one other that I cannot find right now only available in a larger size, I think it was a 60? You might want to look at the geo on the 48/51 I also linked to, maybe that might work for her?

Someone posted this link way earlier in the thread, and it does still appear(i'm guessing, no factual basis) this is where these are coming from if you look at the models closely.

https://www.carbon-fiber-products.com.cn/se.asp?nowmenuid=500054

The 2 I linked to are the RF-3 and 4.

Thanks again to all for you input/help! 



zgrinch said:


> Looking for a frame for my wife - 5'6" . She fit best on the specialized ruby 54cm (480mm seat,537top tube.) Got design specs from bike_bicycle999 for 50,52 & 54. None look like they will work for her, but I am posting FYI. Or am I mistaken ?
> 
> 
> 54cm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 52cm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 50cm


----------



## SleepyNinja

zgrinch said:


> Looking for a frame for my wife - 5'6" . She fit best on the specialized ruby 54cm (480mm seat,537top tube.) Got design specs from bike_bicycle999 for 50,52 & 54. None look like they will work for her, but I am posting FYI. Or am I mistaken ?
> 
> 
> 54cm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 52cm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 50cm


The first frame does not match the 2nd or 3rd


----------



## TempestRS4

rydog9991, Walkinshaw, chocy, would you guys mind posting close up pics of the headset installed on the frame? When I put the bearings in, my upper bearing sticks out past the head tube about 2mm. I was just wondering if this was normal. The headset I have is campy compatible.


----------



## Walkinshaw

I'll grab one when i get home tonight, but my headset's top bearing fits almost flush with the frame, such that there is no gap between the top cap and the frame. 

I used an FSA campy compatable intergated headset, make sure its a 45/45 degree headset and not a 36deg or whatever....

http://road.fullspeedahead.com/product.aspx?taxid=114&pid=276&lid=1


----------



## rydog9991

TempestRS4 said:


> rydog9991, Walkinshaw, chocy, would you guys mind posting close up pics of the headset installed on the frame? When I put the bearings in, my upper bearing sticks out past the head tube about 2mm. I was just wondering if this was normal. The headset I have is campy compatible.



It should be flush, no need to take a picture since we can all just tell you it needs to be flush. Id have the LBS take a look at it as long as you are sure you have the correct headset. Look at the specs on the FSA Orbit CE it is a perfect fit.


----------



## Timbuctoo

Hello people, seems you've got a really interesting thread. I'm thinking of picking one of these framesets and having a go at building one over time. I'm 6"2 (192cms) tall though and was wondering what size to go for. I'm thinking a 56 or 57 might be the ticket but I'd be interested to get people's thoughts. I'd like to setup the bike in the Eddie style so somewhere between a competition setup and the French setup if that makes sense.


----------



## zigurate

As a side note here, 192cm is actually 6"3.5


----------



## Timbuctoo

Yes, you are correct. We use cms here in Oz so I just had a guess at the feet measurement. So at 6"3.5 what sized frame should I get? Maybe lean towards a 57?


----------



## Walkinshaw

6'3" i would have thought you'd be looking for a 60+cm TT?


----------



## TempestRS4

rydog9991 said:


> It should be flush, no need to take a picture since we can all just tell you it needs to be flush. Id have the LBS take a look at it as long as you are sure you have the correct headset. Look at the specs on the FSA Orbit CE it is a perfect fit.


Ok, is the upper bearing thinner than the lower bearing? It seems that the upper bearing cup(race?) is shallower than the lower bearing cup.


----------



## Italianrider76

TempestRS4 said:


> When I put the bearings in, my upper bearing sticks out past the head tube about 2mm. I was just wondering if this was normal. The headset I have is campy compatible.


I seem to be having the same problem. The lower bearing goes in nicely and the upper bearing doesn't. I bought the headset from the same guy who sold me the frame (Ebay Kredo) specifically asking for a headset which is correct for this frame.


----------



## lalahsghost

Italianrider76 said:


> I seem to be having the same problem. The lower bearing goes in nicely and the upper bearing doesn't. I bought the headset from the same guy who sold me the frame (Ebay Kredo) specifically asking for a headset which is correct for this frame.


I had to lay another shoddy bearing of the same size on top of it and whack it with a rubber mallet. After that, the particles under the clearcoat that were obstructing it were no longer an issue and it set fine.


----------



## Italianrider76

Yeah with some fiddling I manged to make it seat nicely. The upper bearing sticking out a little is pretty normal from what I have seen.


----------



## sky_walker

hi there! has anyone got one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...BC%2BP%2BS%2BIA&itu=IA%2BUCI%2BUA&otn=4&ps=10

i am thinking to sell my scott speedster s3 aluminum frame that is too big for me( size 54 and i am 1.69m ) and grab one of these Chinese carbon frames with a Ritchey carbon wcs fork. my problem is that i am not sure what size i need. after some measurements i ended up to size 48 that has a top tube of 51 cm (my scott has 53).


----------



## rook

sky_walker said:


> hi there! has anyone got one of these:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...BC%2BP%2BS%2BIA&itu=IA%2BUCI%2BUA&otn=4&ps=10
> 
> i am thinking to sell my scott speedster s3 aluminum frame that is too big for me( size 54 and i am 1.69m ) and grab one of these Chinese carbon frames with a Ritchey carbon wcs fork. my problem is that i am not sure what size i need. after some measurements i ended up to size 48 that has a top tube of 51 cm (my scott has 53).




That's a nice looking frame, but I think again people will run into fit problems with this. Even if you do know exactly what size frame you have, these carbon eBay sellers don't list what the horizontal (virtual) top tube is.

These overseas eBay sellers just list the top tube measurement. You have no way of knowing whether that is the actual measured top tube, or the horizontal (virtual) top tube. You order the frame and get stuck with it if it doesn't fit. And top tube length is one of the critical measurements on a bike frame that will determine if the bike fits well.


----------



## sky_walker

These overseas eBay sellers just list the top tube measurement. You have no way of knowing whether that is the actual measured top tube, or the horizontal (virtual) top tube. You order the frame and get stuck with it if it doesn't fit. And top tube length is one of the critical measurements on a bike frame that will determine if the bike fits well.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for answering!
You are probably right. I contacted the seller, which by the way does not speak English very well, and he said that the frame has a top tube of 510mm from center to center. i have a feeling that it will fit me much better than the scott i have now...it is a big temptation the price of this frame, i also like the "clean" look of it.


----------



## jds108

*some have measurements...*

I've been emailing maniac_bicycle and he sent me this (image in attachment for the 56cm frame)

There are at least four sellers:
bikebicycle99
bicycle_999
itsall4sports
maniac_bicycle

and at least a couple of these sellers have details diagrams of the frames that they could send. I'm just about to buy one of these myself.


----------



## ILikeBike

jds108 said:


> There are at least four sellers:
> bikebicycle99
> bicycle_999
> itsall4sports
> maniac_bicycle


May I also add....

88bikefun
skycycling (Although this seller has more cyclocross frames and a bit more $$)
carbonbicycle

I cannot find itsall4sports anymore, the lone seller of all of these names from Taiwan. I read he was shutdown for a few days and was supposed to be back up this week, have not seen them. Anyone have a link to one of their frames?

I emailed with bikebicycle99, I got a REALLY fast answer. All of these sellers seem to really take their ebay seller reps VERY seriously. They get that their rep is the only thing that will keep people coming to them and assuage many of the fears of ordering a frame blind, factory direct from China.

The only thing that seems to be a regular issue, mentioned within this thread, are the headsets. I've been figuring out exactly which I'm gonna order and from where, and have decided from all these reviews that the one thing to bail on with them is the headset.

Has anyone ordered a stem from any of these sellers? There seem to be 2, one that is wrapped around aluminum, another that is all carbon, but that I only see available in 110cm. Any thoughts from those that also got a stem?


----------



## SleepyNinja

ILikeBike said:


> May I also add....
> 
> 88bikefun
> skycycling (Although this seller has more cyclocross frames and a bit more $$)
> carbonbicycle
> 
> I cannot find itsall4sports anymore, the lone seller of all of these names from Taiwan. I read he was shutdown for a few days and was supposed to be back up this week, have not seen them. Anyone have a link to one of their frames?
> 
> I emailed with bikebicycle99, I got a REALLY fast answer. All of these sellers seem to really take their ebay seller reps VERY seriously. They get that their rep is the only thing that will keep people coming to them and assuage many of the fears of ordering a frame blind, factory direct from China.
> 
> The only thing that seems to be a regular issue, mentioned within this thread, are the headsets. I've been figuring out exactly which I'm gonna order and from where, and have decided from all these reviews that the one thing to bail on with them is the headset.
> 
> Has anyone ordered a stem from any of these sellers? There seem to be 2, one that is wrapped around aluminum, another that is all carbon, but that I only see available in 110cm. Any thoughts from those that also got a stem?


itsall4sports is back heres a link to all his currently sold items--v
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/itsall4sports_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ


----------



## ILikeBike

Thanks much!:thumbsup: 



SleepyNinja said:


> itsall4sports is back heres a link to all his currently sold items--v
> http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/itsall4sports_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ


----------



## Italianrider76

ILikeBike said:


> Has anyone ordered a stem from any of these sellers? There seem to be 2, one that is wrapped around aluminum, another that is all carbon, but that I only see available in 110cm. Any thoughts from those that also got a stem?


I've got the one that is full carbon and 110mm. I haven't mounted it yet because I am awaiting some other components but for the money it seems like it can't be beat. Construction is flawless and it looks to be quite solid. Not the lightest but then again it was only $28. I'd say go with it.


----------



## Ichijin

As for whether the TT length is virtual or actual all u need to do is ask them.

From all the times I have asked, I have always been told the TT measurement is virtual. (from multiple sellers).

Man, these frames are very tempting.

sky_walker: if you decide to order, could you please post up a review because I might order the same 48cm frame. Thanks in advance.


----------



## TempestRS4

I ordered mine from maniac_bicycle and got it within a week. The frame is beautiful. Mine took a campy compatible headset. Once I get it all built up, I'll post some pics here.


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## lalahsghost

Is it bad that I want the 940g one to replace my 1303g "Raleigh DCS" hasa frame eventhough I've only had it for like eight months? I mean I could sell the one I'm replacing for cheap   :wink5:

That's 12 oz!


----------



## rook

sky_walker said:


> Thanks for answering!
> You are probably right. I contacted the seller, which by the way does not speak English very well, and he said that the frame has a top tube of 510mm from center to center. i have a feeling that it will fit me much better than the scott i have now...it is a big temptation the price of this frame, i also like the "clean" look of it.



Here's the problem with that...
The eBay seller doesn't know what the words "horizontal" or "virtual" means. So, when he writes you back in his less-than-adequate English and tells you that the top tube of 510mm is from center-center you have no idea if this is the actual measurement or the "horizontal" or "virtual" measurement.

Sure, it would be alot easier for them to just include the CAD drawing, but they don't. And that's the problem that some buyers get into. The buy the frame. It's shipped overseas. It gets to them and they figure out that it's the wrong size. OOPS!


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## raymonda

lalahsghost said:


> Is it bad that I want the 940g one to replace my 1303g "Raleigh DCS" hasa frame eventhough I've only had it for like eight months? I mean I could sell the one I'm replacing for cheap   :wink5:
> 
> That's 12 oz!


I have the 940, which is actually 1000 grams in a small. Also, the headset is Cane Creek standard.


----------



## sky_walker

rook said:


> Here's the problem with that...
> The eBay seller doesn't know what the words "horizontal" or "virtual" means. So, when he writes you back in his less-than-adequate English and tells you that the top tube of 510mm is from center-center you have no idea if this is the actual measurement or the "horizontal" or "virtual" measurement.
> 
> Sure, it would be alot easier for them to just include the CAD drawing, but they don't. And that's the problem that some buyers get into. The buy the frame. It's shipped overseas. It gets to them and they figure out that it's the wrong size. OOPS!


thanks rook! i will try to find who is actually making this frame and get more info from them.

Ichijin: i am trying to sell my wrong size Scott speedster here in Greece and then i will start my "Chinese carbon frame" project! i will post the soonest i have news!


----------



## raymonda

sky_walker said:


> thanks rook! i will try to find who is actually making this frame and get more info from them.
> 
> Ichijin: i am trying to sell my wrong size Scott speedster here in Greece and then i will start my "Chinese carbon frame" project! i will post the soonest i have news!


I'm not sure which seller you are referring to but "Itsall4sports" supplies the geometry charts, which are accurate and which has been posted here.


----------



## tbong27

So what is the difference between the headsets? there are so many differnt types and i m just an idiot towards them. Would these colourful ones be suitable for the frames? for the Kredo-frame.. Campy headsets are abit pricey! and theres only one or two types available. 

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Prestine-Mul...ms=66:2|65:1|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50


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## farmteam

Just bought my "kredo" frame as a replacement to a cracking Paketa Mg. Purchased an original Miela decal kit to dress the frame--I plan to apply the Columbus Cro-Mo sticker too for good humor.

I don't think there are any trust issues for my new "kredo" frame. Maybe ride cautiously at first but then trust insticts and let it fly. I never held back riding the Paketa on our Colorado mtn roads and really what is the difference? The Paketa was actually cracking away the last few weeks of life---thought my bottom bracket was just creaking when I found the crack at the drive side chainstay area. I loved the Paketa ride and in their defense, this was an older race frame (2003-ish).

Can't wait to build my new "kredo" for our Tuesday Night Worlds rides.


----------



## sky_walker

raymonda said:


> I'm not sure which seller you are referring to but "Itsall4sports" supplies the geometry charts, which are accurate and which has been posted here.


i was talking about this seller:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-Black-Full-Carbon-Road-Frame-51cm_W0QQitemZ370196262508QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRoad_Bikes?hash=item56316aae6c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50
is the geomerty like the ones sold from "Itsall4sports"??


----------



## raymonda

Final ride report.

As I have now been riding this bike since last fall, I am happy to report that I am still very happy with it. I can't complain about anything other than I had to rebond the drop out plates on the non-drive side. I think I have them bonded now.

Here is a final picture. Some new wheels, saddle, Easton carbon handle bar and white tape. The new saddle brought the over all weight up to 14.35 lbs.


----------



## TempestRS4

tbong27 said:


> So what is the difference between the headsets? there are so many differnt types and i m just an idiot towards them. Would these colourful ones be suitable for the frames? for the Kredo-frame.. Campy headsets are abit pricey! and theres only one or two types available.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Prestine-Mul...ms=66:2|65:1|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50


That would be a no. You need an integrated headset where the bearings drop into the frame. As for campy compatible headsets, you could get a campy hiddenset headset(obviously), or FSA C or CE, or Cane Creek IS-3


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## Italianrider76

This one works:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Carbon-Inter...hash=item260402586704&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177


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## ILikeBike

Italianrider76 said:


> This one works:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Carbon-Inter...hash=item260402586704&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177


That's great to know! I took the plunge yesterday from this seller. Got the 50cm frame, straight fork, 350mm setback seatpost, 42cm handlebars, and 2 cages package and then added the previously mentioned 110mm all carbon stem, the currently mentioned carbon headset, 2 rear derailleur hangers and a seatpost clamp for $550 shipped. (I asked over email if they would combine shipping on all these items to get the price down since I was buying several other items and they very happily cut the price down.)

I was concerned over the headset given some of the posts here and only added it since they combined some of the costs, more or less making it a throw-in. However, you are the first one to say the one I ordered works, so that's some very encouraging news!

Centaur groupset should arrive today! Will post pics of the "final" product sometime next month when its all built up. I still need to order wheels, saddle(although I have a very lightly used,and light, Serfas Furano saddle I may start with), bar tape and pedals...


----------



## lalahsghost

My heart is broken. I was doing a downshift in anticipation for a upcoming hill, while coasting. I start pedaling again, and I hear guh guh gggggggiiiiihhhhhh I felt like my bike needed trim, so I started playing with the FD. No Tension. I look down and my braze on clamp failed. I wasn't pedaling hard, I wasn't shifting under stress, and from what I can recall, there was no problem until after the sound. I'm about to cry. Its summer (AND WARM), I'm done with college, and my main steed is down.

Photo post:


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## thomasegarcia

*temp easy fix*

There is a temp easy fix until you can efford a real fix : take off front derailer and shift by hand. This doesnt really work if you are racing, but you can still have great rides. just stop and switch gears when you reach a steep hill..ect. I did this before when i was trying to take extra weight off a moutian bike that i was turning into a hybrid commuter, but i just left the chain on the big ring and shifted the back gears up and down. if you are handy with tools and dont mind having one gear in the front you could take your other large rings off. Just depends on what kind of riding you are doing.


----------



## thomasegarcia

lalahsghost said:


> My heart is broken. I was doing a downshift in anticipation for a upcoming hill, while coasting. I start pedaling again, and I hear guh guh gggggggiiiiihhhhhh I felt like my bike needed trim, so I started playing with the FD. No Tension. I look down and my braze on clamp failed. I wasn't pedaling hard, I wasn't shifting under stress, and from what I can recall, there was no problem until after the sound. I'm about to cry. Its summer (AND WARM), I'm done with college, and my main steed is down.
> 
> Photo post:




temp easy fix 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is a temp easy fix until you can efford a real fix : take off front derailer and shift by hand. This doesnt really work if you are racing, but you can still have great rides. just stop and switch gears when you reach a steep hill..ect. I did this before when i was trying to take extra weight off a moutian bike that i was turning into a hybrid commuter, but i just left the chain on the big ring and shifted the back gears up and down. if you are handy with tools and dont mind having one gear in the front you could take your other large rings off. Just depends on what kind of riding you are doing.


----------



## stevesbike

probably something a good shop could fix with some epoxy (or depending on tube shape switching to a clamp).


----------



## dexdes

Is the braze-on tab carbon? If so, just grind it off with a dremel tool, sand the tube surface smooth, and use a clamp-on adapter. SRAM makes them for most seat tube OD sizes or you can probably find an aftermarket part at Nashbar, etc. My pseudo-Kredo didn't have a braze-on tab so I got a SRAM adapter and it works fine, only adds about 25g.


----------



## lalahsghost

The braze on is riveted ?steel/aluminum? and the ebay seller itsall4sports has already corresponded to my warranty claim request. (asking for more details) I'll have to say that even though this sucks, I'm still optimistic for a good outcome. More of a liveblogging event/outcome concerning the ebay seller, more than the crack itself.


----------



## raymonda

lalahsghost said:


> The braze on is riveted ?steel/aluminum? and the ebay seller itsall4sports has already corresponded to my warranty claim request. (asking for more details) I'll have to say that even though this sucks, I'm still optimistic for a good outcome. More of a liveblogging event/outcome concerning the ebay seller, more than the crack itself.


It looks like the rivet failed. If there is no damage and the hanger is fine then a bike shop should be able to fix this for less than $10 for a new rivet. It would take less than 2 minutes. If the hanger is bent, then you would need a new one revited on and it might cost around $20.


----------



## velomateo

If the rivet failed and there is no damage to the surrounding tube, simply re-rivet the hanger. If the rivet pulled through the tube you could still re-rivet, but you would have to go up to the next larger diameter. This would require you to completely remove the hanger and drill the holes to the larger specified size, before reattaching it to the frame. I also think you could go to a clamp style derailluer with no problem, assuming the tube is actually round in that area. 
But the best case scenario is that the ebay seller replaces the frame. Good luck, I hope it works out well for you.


----------



## lalahsghost

Itsallforsports accepted the warranty claim, and asked me to ship it back for warranty/replacement once they see it, at their discretion.

It'll take 5-8 days for me to ship it there, 2-3 weeks for repair, (el wtf senor) and the X amount of time to ship back... 

All in all, the warranty system does work


----------



## kr1zje

Of course it works, they already exchanged one frame for me.


----------



## CabDoctor

Anybody know what the smallest frame like this is that I could buy? I'm looking for one for my wife and she need about a 44-46cm


----------



## kiwisimon

CabDoctor said:


> Anybody know what the smallest frame like this is that I could buy? I'm looking for one for my wife and she need about a 44-46cm


smallest is a 49 but ask them on their website, maybe they have smaller.


----------



## TempestRS4

Here's my ebay bike. What do you guys think? :thumbsup: 
It's the 50cm pseudo kredo
Truvativ Rouleur crank, 105 Rd and FD, 9 sp Tiagra shifters, SRAM 12-26 9sp cassette, Shimano WHR 561 wheelset.

She's about 18lbs, not too bad considering the components


----------



## raymonda

Enjoy the ride!


----------



## willhs

That is bad ass. I built up something similar, but with full SRAM Red and Bebop pedals (btw, those pedals are AMAZING and cheap). My total weight with pedals was a hair over 15 lbs, and it cost me ~$2,200 in total. Not bad, and an amazing bike. I plan to post up pics in a dedicated build thread soon with details of how it has ridden over the past few hundred miles.


----------



## jcsl

rydog9991 said:


> Just finished my budget build. Swapped almost everything over from my Fuji Roubaix that was too big for me. Just one pic for now.


HI
how much it cost you to buildup this?
Is it possible to buildup the whole bike ourselves? Easy or a tough job?


----------



## jcsl

-W- said:


> New try! Hopefully you can see these pictures at this time:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> Ps. There wasn't any snow at the road, but pretty much everywhere else.. :smilewinkgrin:


Hi,
How much is your build?
Do you assemble it yourself?
Is it possible to have LBS to assemble for me if i got all the stuff but don't know how to do it?


----------



## simplyhankk

jcsl said:


> Is it possible to buildup the whole bike ourselves? Easy or a tough job?



If you have proper tools and knowledge it's not that difficult. If you've never done this before you might run into some problems...like tuning for shifting cables, setting up the levers and bar tape etc.


----------



## -W-

jcsl said:


> Hi,
> How much is your build?
> Do you assemble it yourself?


I Don't remember anymore (have been trying to forgot that thing in purposefully  ).. Much more than I originally thought, but on the other hand I have now my "dream" bike which I love (well my actual dream bike is Orbea Orca, but it is "little bit" overpriced for me at the moment:wink5: ). And it seems that this building of bike never really stops.. I have already swapped new stem and handlebard for it (that Syntace Racelite 7075 had too long reach with Shimano shifters for me and now I have FSA Compact Wing, which is better but not that good looking (shallow drop makes it look strange, would like to have short reach but medium drop bar).. ) And I still have to swap that saddle too, it makes my ass numb after one hour (any ideas of comfortable saddle which is yellow? )...

And yes, I assembled it myself. First bike from zero to me. Wasn't that hard after you have all the right parts (actually it was really fun to put everything together!)


In generally this bike has worked really well. I have ridden with it quite much (at least in my scale  ) and only negative thing which comes to my mind is that fork seems to be a little bit flimsy for my weight/strenghts when I'm really pushing to uphill (I´m little bit over 90kg). Propably it has lot to do with relative long headtube/long spacer between bearing and stem. It doesn´t really bother me that much, as long as it doesn´t break... (just makes ride more comfortable:thumbsup. Other ways it has been going on better than I thought. And with those high profile Mavic wheels it has quite unique "hollow" sound too.. But what amazes me all the time most, is how smooth is gear change with the Ultegra SL components!:yikes: I come from mountain bike backround and good damn that these road bikes have nice gearshifts compared to even best ones in mountain bikes! Sounds maybe quite stupid, but it still suprises me every time..:blush2:


----------



## jcsl

-W- said:


> I Don't remember anymore (have been trying to forgot that thing in purposefully  ).. Much more than I originally thought, but on the other hand I have now my "dream" bike which I love (well my actual dream bike is Orbea Orca, but it is "little bit" overpriced for me at the moment:wink5: ). And it seems that this building of bike never really stops.. I have already swapped new stem and handlebard for it (that Syntace Racelite 7075 had too long reach with Shimano shifters for me and now I have FSA Compact Wing, which is better but not that good looking (shallow drop makes it look strange, would like to have short reach but medium drop bar).. ) And I still have to swap that saddle too, it makes my ass numb after one hour (any ideas of comfortable saddle which is yellow? )...
> 
> And yes, I assembled it myself. First bike from zero to me. Wasn't that hard after you have all the right parts (actually it was really fun to put everything together!)
> 
> 
> In generally this bike has worked really well. I have ridden with it quite much (at least in my scale  ) and only negative thing which comes to my mind is that fork seems to be a little bit flimsy for my weight/strenghts when I'm really pushing to uphill (I´m little bit over 90kg). Propably it has lot to do with relative long headtube/long spacer between bearing and stem. It doesn´t really bother me that much, as long as it doesn´t break... (just makes ride more comfortable:thumbsup. Other ways it has been going on better than I thought. And with those high profile Mavic wheels it has quite unique "hollow" sound too.. But what amazes me all the time most, is how smooth is gear change with the Ultegra SL components!:yikes: I come from mountain bike backround and good damn that these road bikes have nice gearshifts compared to even best ones in mountain bikes! Sounds maybe quite stupid, but it still suprises me every time..:blush2:


So do you have experience assembling bike before?
Because it will be my first time as well.
How to decide the compatible group set with the frame.
I currently have these frames in mind.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360158502741
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260418293418&_trkparms=tab=Watching

And planning to get Dura Ace, Record or Red. So can help me on how to choose the size which fit the frame (such as Crank length, Cassette size etc) cuz there is simply too many sizes for the cassette. 

Or is it that any group set will fit, I just need to choose the crank length?

Among double, double compact and triple, which one is preferable? I have double compact on mind

Thanks


----------



## -W-

Well I'm 110% sure that there are better people to ansver/advice on these question, but maybe these help you in some ways:

I personally went for Double Compact because I'm not professional driver and there are also some hills in my living area (central Finland). I also went for the most "widest" casette available (12-27), because I wanted to be sure that I'm able to climb the most steepest hills all the way up. I think the Double Compact is great choise if you have some hills at your area and you aren't professional driver who drivers constantly 50 miles in hour..:wink5: Now afterwards thinking, maybe I could have survived also with the 12-25 casette, but I'm very happy with this setup which I have (and I don't see any idea of having triple setup if you aren't living in the alps etc.).

And what comes to crank lenght, I went for 175mm because I have relative long legs for my size (I'm 5"11` with 34" inseam) and I don't like spinning cranks like crazy. I assume that you are relative small person (based on those small size frames which you are looking for), so maybe I would go for 170mm cranks if I where you..

And basically every new groupset should fit to those frames..

And I didn't have that much experience assembling bikes before, but I have done lot of other technical stuff which ofcourse helps.


I would also remind that even if these eBay frames are cheap themself, you propably are able to find cheaper carbonfibre bike from some normal bikeshops. Groupsets, wheels, etc. are always more expensive when you are buying them separately than if you are able to find whole bike with good discount.

And in the bike shop there is slight possibility also of having person who knows more of bikes and is able to help you with your problems.. But ofcourse then you wouldn't be experiencing this thrill of assembling your bike your self! :thumbsup:


----------



## jcsl

-W- said:


> Well I'm 110% sure that there are better people to ansver/advice on these question, but maybe these help you in some ways:
> 
> And what comes to crank lenght, I went for 175mm because I have relative long legs for my size (I'm 5"11` with 34" inseam) and I don't like spinning cranks like crazy. I assume that you are relative small person (based on those small size frames which you are looking for), so maybe I would go for 170mm cranks if I where you..
> 
> And basically every new groupset should fit to those frames..
> 
> And I didn't have that much experience assembling bikes before, but I have done lot of other technical stuff which ofcourse helps.
> 
> 
> I would also remind that even if these eBay frames are cheap themself, you propably are able to find cheaper carbonfibre bike from some normal bikeshops. Groupsets, wheels, etc. are always more expensive when you are buying them separately than if you are able to find whole bike with good discount.
> 
> And in the bike shop there is slight possibility also of having person who knows more of bikes and is able to help you with your problems.. But ofcourse then you wouldn't be experiencing this thrill of assembling your bike your self! :thumbsup:


I see. It does helped. Actually I would like to go for a bigger frame but there are only 48 and 58cm frames. I'm around 180+ cm with inseam around 9 or 10cm. So should I stick with the 48 or go for 58?

So unless I manage to find cheaper group set, the total cost would be higher than to bikes in the LBS?

I wanted to assemble it myself but I don't have experience in any technical stuff except assembling IKEA furniture


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## Italianrider76

jcsl said:


> So unless I manage to find cheaper group set, the total cost would be higher than to bikes in the LBS?


Not necessarily. You can find some great deals on individual components on eBay. You just have to be patient as this processes can be time consuming. In the end you can build yourself a bargain bike if you do it correctly.


----------



## athletic91

TempestRS4 said:


> Here's my ebay bike. What do you guys think? :thumbsup:
> It's the 50cm pseudo kredo
> Truvativ Rouleur crank, 105 Rd and FD, 9 sp Tiagra shifters, SRAM 12-26 9sp cassette, Shimano WHR 561 wheelset.
> 
> She's about 18lbs, not too bad considering the components


the front centre is very long, big fork rake too. like mine


----------



## athletic91

raymonda said:


> Enjoy the ride!


thanks its a 48cm frame btw, is that the cr1 replica?

im thinking of getting a black wheelset too,

made a wrong choice of tape colour, would go black soon


----------



## theone29

just added the flit letica wheels to the setup. 
<br>
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/thienn/3573326425/" title="DSC03620 by thien3204, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3308/3573326425_cba99cf3a7_o.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="DSC03620" /></a>
<br>
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/thienn/3573327671/" title="DSC03625 by thien3204, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3295/3573327671_4081240377_o.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="DSC03625" /></a>
<br>
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/thienn/3573326917/" title="DSC03622 by thien3204, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3397/3573326917_98dbde70e4_o.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="DSC03622" /></a>


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## raymonda

I think it looks nice and would ride it with pride.

Great job.


----------



## timsweeney

Hi all. Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who posted their experiences with buying and building these frames. I just purchased one, the Merckx LXM looking one. I wouldn't have made the leap without all the info and pics from the brave souls who went before me, and I'm sure I'll re-read the thread when I build, so thanks. I came across these links while surfing around, trying to get info about theses frames, maybe of some interest. The Sheldon Brown page is interesting because he points out that layering the carbon is what makes a bike stiff AND strong, so if it is stiff enough, it is strong enough.
http://www.diytrade.com/china/4/products/5104612/carbon_bike_frame.html
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/carbonqa.htm


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## willjp

*Here is by carbon E-Bay bike in built up.*

I thought I would post a picture and specs of my bike.
The frame size is 54cm. 
The group set is Shimano Ultegra 6600.
The crank is a Truvativ Rouler carbon.
The saddle is a Sella SMP Glider.
Neuvation M28 aero wheel set.


----------



## mark439

willjp,

Great looking bike! Which seller did you buy from? I like this frame and I believe it's the model I see offered in 54 or 57-not the style in 56. What is your height? I have requested geometry from a few of the sellers but was curious if you could possibly measure the effective TT and the ST length?

Thanks!


----------



## willjp

mark439

I got my bike frame from bikebicycle99 on E-Bay. 
I'm 5'11" tall. I have really short legs short arms; however I have a long torso. So a smaller frame fits me better. I just use a longer steam. The steam is a 110mm. 
I hope I measured the TT and the ST length right for you. The TT was 54cm. ST was 54cm. I've never really measured a bike before. I had my local bike shop size me to my frame.

Bill


----------



## mattdman

i bought a OEM Kuota Kredo, L (54cm) frame with matching fork from itsallforsport last week. I have also finished setting up and test riding. The frame performed very well. It's light, agile and stiff on appropriate places  . I think it's a steal for a frame performs like that. Wish they would have more colour choice than just 12k weave carbon. :idea: will custom make and name with some stickers for the bike... (Giant killer???) 

Will try to post some pics when I got my camera back. 

Cheers :thumbsup:


----------



## lalahsghost

I am a ****ing fool. I spent a few hours slowly building my new 940g hasa road bike. I get everything on, and get to putting cables/housing on. I mean EVERYTHING else is on and mostly adjusted.

OH WAIT

The riveted cable housing holder that leads to the rear derailleur on the chainstay of the drive side is mounted backwards.

RAGE. I bought this bike so I would have a replacement for my hasa bike being repaired. This is very frustrating.


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## kiwisimon

sure you can't turn it around? one rivet or two?


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## lalahsghost

kiwisimon said:


> sure you can't turn it around? one rivet or two?


 Two Rivets. I'm not sure i have the knowledge or expertise to mod around with rivets either.


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## kiwisimon

uhmm: two rivets makes it tough. post a pic someone here might have an idea or two.


----------



## rook

yeah, post a pic. I'm sure that someone will be able to help you, but we gotta see exactly what you are dealing with.


----------



## Dresden

Maybe drill out the closed end and use something like JB Stik Weld(epoxy putty) to plug the other end then after it cures drill a small hole in the epoxy for the cable to pass through. Don't know if that would really work, but it was the first thing that came to mind.


----------



## lalahsghost

rook said:


> yeah, post a pic. I'm sure that someone will be able to help you, but we gotta see exactly what you are dealing with.


I'm going to recycle some photos. It is the same exact kind of installation as in this photo:









and one can be seen in detail which cable router it is (correctly installed) in another recycled photo:


----------



## athletic91

remember to remind the ebay seller to include the headset and downtube barrel adjusters in the package, many here seem to let these items delay the built


----------



## raymonda

lalahsghost said:


> I'm going to recycle some photos. It is the same exact kind of installation as in this photo:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and one can be seen in detail which cable router it is (correctly installed) in another recycled photo:


That is a bummer and should not have come like that. Either send it back or take it to your LBS, who should be able to revit it in the correct direction for $5.00 or so.


----------



## mattdman

my newly finished carbone roadie, to be exact, kuota kredo OEM


----------



## lockwood1

mattdman said:


> my newly finished carbone roadie, to be exact, kuota kredo OEM


Where do you get those decals from? looks quite amazing. You certainly made hell of a job:thumbsup: 
the frame is Kuota? from wich seller?


----------



## mattdman

the decals are custom made. i bought the frame from itsall4sports at $580, but i think its a bit expensive than other ebay seller. as you can read in this forum, most of them paid less than me


----------



## philippec

good job. who made the decals for you?


----------



## theone29

thomasegarcia said:


> i havent seen any one with this bike yet....


i just purchased the same frame. Can you post more pics of your built up for me see? thanks.


----------



## biketaviousmaximus

Here my frame I'm about to build. After trying to get a santa cruz road frame, I had no luck so I decided to 'badge' my own. I'm a Mountain biker first and ride road for endurance fitness.

I love my Nomad and Blur so thought I'll DIY a Santa Cruz Roadie.

I'll put some built pics up laters!


----------



## timsweeney

http://www.alibaba.com/product/tw105501074-105234732-101276508/Carbon_Road_Frame_R2_.html
Do these look familiar......


----------



## Crash_Enburn

biketaviousmaximus said:


> Here my frame I'm about to build. After trying to get a santa cruz road frame, I had no luck so I decided to 'badge' my own. I'm a Mountain biker first and ride road for endurance fitness.
> 
> I love my Nomad and Blur so thought I'll DIY a Santa Cruz Roadie.
> 
> I'll put some built pics up laters!


Did you do the paint job on it yourself? It's beautiful! Can you tell us _how_ you acheived that paint job? I've been fantasizing about one of these builds ever since coming across this thread a week ago, and would want to paint the frame as well.

Thanks!
- Eric​


----------



## simplyhankk

biketaviousmaximus said:


> I love my Nomad and Blur so thought I'll DIY a Santa Cruz Roadie.



HA-HA!

Wow, unbelievable.


----------



## Preved

Help! I need a new headset for a "Raleigh DCS". I am not sure what should i get, can someone shoot me a link for a 100% matching headset, preferably Ritchey or FSA something ?

Thanks!


----------



## Dr. Placebo

mattdman said:


> my newly finished carbone roadie, to be exact, kuota kredo OEM


Absolutely glorious.


----------



## raymonda

Thought I'd throw a picture of this Kredo type build I helped a friend with. He is upgrading from a lower end 20 year old Bianchi.

I think he really enjoyed picking out the parts and searching for deals. He wanted to keep it reasonably priced and got away with spending around 1,800 as pictured.

It is a combination Campy Centaur, Chorus and Record. Mostly Centaur with a Record chain and chorus shifter, headset and brakes.

The handlebars and seat post came with the bike. His first ride on it will be this Sunday.


----------



## ru1-2cycle

Gorgeous!


----------



## single~minded

mattdman said:


> my newly finished carbone roadie, to be exact, kuota kredo OEM


Nice!!!!!! :thumbsup: 

You got a PM.....


----------



## raymonda

raymonda said:


> Thought I'd throw a picture of this Kredo type build I helped a friend with. He is upgrading from a lower end 20 year old Bianchi.
> 
> I think he really enjoyed picking out the parts and searching for deals. He wanted to keep it reasonably priced and got away with spending around 1,800 as pictured.
> 
> It is a combination Campy Centaur, Chorus and Record. Mostly Centaur with a Record chain and chorus shifter, headset and brakes.
> 
> The handlebars and seat post came with the bike. His first ride on it will be this Sunday.


So, my friend and I took his new ride on its maiden voyage today, a 53 miles ride. There were no surprises to report as my friend continue to rave about how much easier it was to ride than his prior ride. He also stated that it ascended better and was more comfortable. 

Now, keep in mind that he is not a racer or ex-racer, so BB flex, stiffness etc., is not really in his vocabulary. However, he did seem to be surprised that over the ride it just seemed to roll and ride smoother.

My impression was that for the price of the frame and fork it seems that a good performance bike is now within reach for most riders. And for racers; for the price these could become the next "dixie cup" race machines. Forget about that old beater frame you have been riding in races because you don't want to lay down your $2,000 plus frame. Buy one of these for $289 and race it for a season. If you crash it you haven't lost much at all.


----------



## single~minded

*Nice.....*

man this thread just keeps going :thumbsup: 

So......I bought the Eddy Merckx LXM version of frame from these guys....anyway I also got their cheap headset. 
Does anyone know what to torque the fork insert to and what preload you put on the bearings? 
Hope to get mine up n running soon


----------



## raymonda

I haven't heard a report from anyone who has bought this frame, including myself, and received the right headset. The LXM takes the CC standard. Buy an IS2 or IS3 and be done with it. Headsets are way overrated.

What fork insert are you taking about?

You should have 2 bearings; one for the top and bottom, fork race and the top race and compression cap.

I've never heard of or used a torque wrench when adusting a headset. You tighten it down until you have removed play in the headset. Then tighten down the stem bolts. It is as simple as it gets these days.

If you are using a carbon steering tube do not use a star flange but rather a compression style item.

Just make sure that when you tighten down the stem bolts you do not over tighten them and crush the steering tube. Often there is a recommended torque for these but if you know your way around a bike you don't need one unless you have hams for fists.

Enjoy your build and post pics.


----------



## single~minded

Well I am used to using a torque wrench to tighten and pre-load things. Especially on lightweight stuff like carbon. Ti or scandium. Guess that is why I never cracked a set of topline cranks.....

I did the headset bearings to no play and I torqued the stem to 35in lbs....I will tell you what. The steerer on this fork is much thinner than my Orbea Opal was. I did the compression nut to 50in lbs.....anything more and it started to buldge the steerer and the top cover would not slide on. Also the stem gap is much closer than it was on the Orbea fork.

I cut the steerer to space the stem at 1x the steerer width which is 1 1/8 or 30mm.

What are you guys torquing the f/der clamp to....the ones that use a torque wrench  

The headset I got with the frame dropped right in.....did anyone have to use the shims under the cover that came with it? Also the carbon seat collar I bought with it does not fit for crap........

Anyway here is how far I have gotten this week. It is a bummer but.....I might be selling it. I think it is too small


----------



## raymonda

single~minded said:


> Well I am used to using a torque wrench to tighten and pre-load things. Especially on lightweight stuff like carbon. Ti or scandium. Guess that is why I never cracked a set of topline cranks.....
> 
> I did the headset bearings to no play and I torqued the stem to 35in lbs....I will tell you what. The steerer on this fork is much thinner than my Orbea Opal was. I did the compression nut to 50in lbs.....anything more and it started to buldge the steerer and the top cover would not slide on. Also the stem gap is much closer than it was on the Orbea fork.
> 
> I cut the steerer to space the stem at 1x the steerer width which is 1 1/8 or 30mm.
> 
> The headset I got with the frame dropped right in.....did anyone have to use the shims under the cover that came with it? Also the carbon seat collar I bought with it does not fit for ****........I will post a pi
> 
> Anyway here is how far I have gotten this week. It is a bummer but.....I might be selling it. I think it is too small


Looks good but that is not the Merckx model. It some other model.


----------



## single~minded

raymonda said:


> Looks good but that is not the Merckx model. It some other model.


Really? I thought it looked comparable to the LXM frame.....so what copy do you think it is?


----------



## raymonda

single~minded said:


> Really? I thought it looked comparable to the LXM frame.....so what copy do you think it is?


It has a box section BB chainstay junction, aluminum dropouts, almost traditional TT and twisted-asymetric nds chainstay. So, your guess is as good as mine.

Many people have bought this frame and have had excellent results. Your's looks yummy!


----------



## single~minded

raymonda said:


> It has a box section BB chainstay junction, aluminum dropouts, almost traditional TT and twisted-asymetric nds chainstay. So, your guess is as good as mine.
> 
> Many people have bought this frame and have had excellent results. Your's looks yummy!


I thought it looked like this one......but I think your right about the boxed BB junction....it does not look like the LXM has it......


----------



## raymonda

single~minded said:


> I thought it looked like this one......but I think your right about the boxed BB junction....it does not look like the LXM has it......


The Merckx has carbon dropouts and the seat stays and chainstays are a one peice type. Also the TT is a radical slope.

That being said, your frame is still nicely finished and has received great reviews. You should really enjoy it anyways.


----------



## single~minded

*So.....*

I am getting closer and have some visual feedback.

Overall the frame looks good and everything seem aligned.

There are three places where the tubes are bonded that are not very even so it has a noticable lump. Down tube into headtube junction, the upper stay seat tube junction and where the upper seat tube joins the lower seat tube....they are bonded together. Not really bad but quite evident.

The fork steerer tube is much thinner than my 2 year old Orbea Opal......but I have not compared it to the newer lighter aftermarket forks.

And the seatpost clamp I purchased with the frame does not fit for s**t.

other than that.....it looks quite nice. More feedback to come....:thumbsup:


----------



## raymonda

single~minded said:


> I am getting closer and have some visual feedback.
> 
> Overall the frame looks good and everything seem aligned.
> 
> There are three places where the tubes are bonded that are not very even so it has a noticable lump. Down tube into headtube junction, the upper stay seat tube junction and where the upper seat tube joins the lower seat tube....they are bonded together. Not really bad but quite evident.
> 
> The fork steerer tube is much thinner than my 2 year old Orbea Opal......but I have not compared it to the newer lighter aftermarket forks.
> 
> And the seatpost clamp I purchased with the frame does not fit for s**t.
> 
> other than that.....it looks quite nice. More feedback to come....:thumbsup:


I believe on this type of frame the constuction is done in three parts. The front triangle is one uniform piece and the seatstays and chainstays are seperate peices bonded on afterwards. This is very common and has been a type of manufacturing that works. Although, I have always found the BB box section bulking and not very attractive.


----------



## athletic91

raymonda said:


> It has a box section BB chainstay junction, aluminum dropouts, almost traditional TT and twisted-asymetric nds chainstay. So, your guess is as good as mine.
> 
> Many people have bought this frame and have had excellent results. Your's looks yummy!


i am using this frame 48cm. however i am going to change frame soon as the head tube is only 69* too slack angle. when i sprint, the front wheel always lift the ground


----------



## onegearqueer

Yea the 48cm (s) has a 69.5.......I seen that. They claim 72.5 on the 51 (m)...Also the chainstays at 406mm. Tight wheel clearance


----------



## athletic91

im seeing lots of you guys with the american classic 420, any killer deals for those wheels on the net?


----------



## raymonda

My LBS can usually get me them for $200 under list. If you have a good relationship with your's they should be able to do the same.


----------



## athletic91

raymonda said:


> My LBS can usually get me them for $200 under list. If you have a good relationship with your's they should be able to do the same.


are you refering to the am420 wheels? thats very very cheap


----------



## raymonda

athletic91 said:


> are you refering to the am420 wheels? thats very very cheap


They list for around $1000 minus 200 = $800 or so. That's around 20% off but not really cheap. But I do appreciate the discount and for it they get my business.


----------



## rydog9991

raymonda said:


> They list for around $1000 minus 200 = $800 or so. That's around 20% off but not really cheap. But I do appreciate the discount and for it they get my business.



Ebay for $500 

http://cgi.ebay.com/American-Classic-420-Wheelset-shimano_W0QQitemZ320396910396QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item4a9924df3c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1205%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50


----------



## stevesbike

rydog9991 said:


> Ebay for $500
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/American-Classic-420-Wheelset-shimano_W0QQitemZ320396910396QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item4a9924df3c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1205%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50


if you first do a search through microsoft's bing (used to be live.com) you'll get 8% cashback on buy it now items in ebay


----------



## athletic91

Any1 who owns the kuota krendo 50cm frame can verify that the krendo seat tube is really 50cm?


----------



## raymonda

athletic91 said:


> Any1 who owns the kuota krendo 50cm frame can verify that the krendo seat tube is really 50cm?


I can tell you that the specs listed on the 54 were exact. So, I would assume that those listed for the 50 would be correct.


----------



## single~minded

*ready for a test ride.....*

Did a set up ride on the trainer...feels good, everything went together nicely. But I got to say.....those AM 420's feel like junk! Hope they settle in good...they are already out of true after 2 hrs on the trainer . Sopkes were clinking under load :idea: 

I was afraid the sizing might be an issue but I just might luck out :thumbsup: 

Feed back to come

Built with medium weight parts, comes in at 16.8 with pedals/cages. std dura ace 7800 & all alum compartment.


----------



## raymonda

single~minded said:


> Did a set up ride on the trainer...feels good, everything went together nicely. But I got to say.....those AM 420's feel like junk! Hope they settle in good...they are already out of true after 2 hrs on the trainer . Sopkes were clinking under load :idea:
> 
> I was afraid the sizing might be an issue but I just might luck out :thumbsup:
> 
> Feed back to come
> 
> Built with medium weight parts, comes in at 16.8 with pedals/cages. std dura ace 7800 & all alum compartment.


I have had very good luck with the 420's, so have others and I believe you will too. 

I like the look of the bike and feel the 7800 looks a whole lot better than the 7900 two tone, which to me is ugly.

Enjoy!


----------



## ryanv

*buyer beware*

I bought a frame from 88bikefun off ebay. I bought handlebars, headset, fork and seatpost also. Total $482 shipped.

It took about 2 weeks to receive the shipment. I noticed some defects in the downtube right away. I attached pictures of cracks and delamination.

The seller stated that they would send me a new frame and refund my return shipping fees ($62.15).

The frame was delivered in China on Tuesday July 14. I have sent the seller several emails since then and haven't gotten a reply. I contacted Paypal to start a dispute, but it was rejected because I bought the headset and handlebars also outside of the ebay auction.

So now, I've spent $540+, I have no frame and Paypal isn't willing to help with getting me a new frame or getting my money refunded.


----------



## raymonda

That almost looks like they sanded through the carbon when preping the frame for the clearcoat. either way, it ain't the way it is suppose to be. 7-14 was just a few days ago, so hopefully you'll hear soon.


----------



## ryanv

I sent these pictures to the seller (88bikefun) when I received the frame. The seller said to return the frame. 

In the rejected Paypal claim, the seller said there's nothing wrong with the frame.

Is that safe to ride with a downtube like that?


----------



## raymonda

Usually the last carbon wrap is cosmetic so it may not effect the integrity. However, it is hard to tell from pictures if that is the case. In any case, I would have tried to return it too and since they have it they may as well send you another frame. Again, the 14th was a few days ago ago, give them until Tuesday to respond. Even major American companies customer service Reps. can take a week before they get back to you.


----------



## feliperubio

I just bought a frame from the same guy. I hope that he doesn't send me your frame!!


----------



## feliperubio

raymonda said:


> Usually the last carbon wrap is cosmetic so it may not effect the integrity. However, it is hard to tell from pictures if that is the case. In any case, I would have tried to return it too and since they have it they may as well send you another frame. Again, the 14th was a few days ago ago, give them until Tuesday to respond. Even major American companies customer service Reps. can take a week before they get back to you.


I actually e-mailed the guy as well to know when he was going to ship my frame and haven't heard from him since I bought the frame last Tuesday.


----------



## ryanv

feliperubio said:


> I actually e-mailed the guy as well to know when he was going to ship my frame and haven't heard from him since I bought the frame last Tuesday.


good luck... i'm SOL so far, $500 loss.

i haven't gotten any emails from them since returning my frame.

i'm tempted to leave negative feedback on ebay, but i'm worried that will hurt my chances of getting a frame or a refund.


----------



## stevesbike

if you don't hear back soon, you should try a chargeback on the credit card you have linked to your paypal acct. I don't understand why Paypal rejected yoru dispute - don't they offer some buyer protection independent of whether or not the payment went through ebay?


----------



## Dr. Placebo

anyone else have issues? Are these across all sellers?


----------



## biketaviousmaximus

ryanv said:


> So now, I've spent $540+, I have no frame and Paypal isn't willing to help with getting me a new frame or getting my money refunded.


Patience grasshopper! I think you'll find it will arrive in due time.  My frame arrived but they forgot to pack the headset. I e-mailed them and 1 week later it arrived. Waiting takes longer when your eager to build et......

When I actually got the frame, bad weather prolonged the painting process, I was almost going mad with enthusiasm waiting to build this bad boy!:thumbsup: 

Peace out brothers


----------



## ryanv

stevesbike said:


> if you don't hear back soon, you should try a chargeback on the credit card you have linked to your paypal acct. I don't understand why Paypal rejected yoru dispute - don't they offer some buyer protection independent of whether or not the payment went through ebay?


I talked to someone at paypal resolution center. they offer no buyer protection because I paid for additional items (headset and handlebars) combined with the winning bid on the eBay auction. the seller sent me an invoice and payment request, separate from the eBay auction. technically, that's against eBay policy, buying and selling via email.

buyer beware... I've gotten scammed on eBay in the past. this is the worst because it's a chunk of monies and I actually had the defective frame. I almost feel like I created the problem by complaining. it only makes it more difficult that this seller is in china. 

still no reply... the lady at paypal said she would try to contact the seller.

would any of you guys ride that frame?


----------



## stevesbike

at this point just seek to get your money refunded - the seller has the frame right. Call your credit card company and tell them you want to do a chargeback (the credit card linked to your paypal acct). You returned defective merchandise and the seller needs to credit your acct. The credit card company will process this and ask the seller/paypal for the fees to them...


----------



## raymonda

It has been 2 days since your frame arrived back to the sender. Before you panic you should give the seller more time to respond. As I stated before, 2-3 days is not a long time to hear back. Many US based companies can take 2-3 weeks to get back to you. 

I would be surprise if this seller is trying to stick you since he has had many satisfied customers and his sales is contingent to a good reputation. The quickest way for him to loose sales is to screw someone who uses this board. My guess is that he is busy and will get around to sending your item out shortly.


----------



## ryanv

raymonda said:


> It has been 2 days since your frame arrived back to the sender. Before you panic you should give the seller more time to respond. As I stated before, 2-3 days is not a long time to hear back. Many US based companies can take 2-3 weeks to get back to you.
> 
> I would be surprise if this seller is trying to stick you since he has had many satisfied customers and his sales a contingent to a good reputation. The quickest way for him to loose sales is to screw someone who uses this board. My guess is that he is busy and will get around to sending your item out shortly.


i hope so, thanks the encouragement.

buyer beware, I'll keep this thread updated.

I have a pile of parts ready to go. I've been on the mtb lately, but I usually ride road. the seller has had my money for a month already.


----------



## sonic_W

if the condition on the frame looks that poor, it's hard to imagine what branded and painted CF frames look like underneath the coating...


----------



## CleavesF

+1 for everyone telling you to wait it out. 

Running a business is a no joke, not to mention an international business. Remember, China is on the other side of the world, as least for us 'mericans. 

It takes Easton 7-10 days (in Cali) to send stuff to Wisconsin. For something across the channel, I'd give nearly a month. That's why PBK is unreal, they get stuff to me faster than Nashbar.


----------



## ryanv

CleavesF said:


> +1 for everyone telling you to wait it out.
> 
> Running a business is a no joke, not to mention an international business. Remember, China is on the other side of the world, as least for us 'mericans.
> 
> It takes Easton 7-10 days (in Cali) to send stuff to Wisconsin. For something across the channel, I'd give nearly a month. That's why PBK is unreal, they get stuff to me faster than Nashbar.


I know about running a business in china, it is a joke. it's pretty much scamming and scheming and ripping people off on every level and hoping to make a profit. 

it's easier to trust Easton or nashbar with returns because they are domestic and have to follow the rules. there's no rules in china.

today's update is that my reject paypal dispute is getting me somewhere. 3-4 days with no reply from the seller and today I get 4 emails. apologizing for the delay but still stating that there's nothing defective with the frame.

still no confirmation on getting a new frame or refund for shipping fees.


----------



## raymonda

ryanv said:


> I know about running a business in china, it is a joke. it's pretty much scamming and scheming and ripping people off on every level and hoping to make a profit.
> 
> it's easier to trust Easton or nashbar with returns because they are domestic and have to follow the rules. there's no rules in china.
> 
> today's update is that my reject paypal dispute is getting me somewhere. 3-4 days with no reply from the seller and today I get 4 emails. apologizing for the delay but still stating that there's nothing defective with the frame.
> 
> still no confirmation on getting a new frame or refund for shipping fees.


You might want to ask them how they intend to resolve the issue. If there is nothing wrong, and you sent them the frame back in the same condition as it was received, would they mind sending out another one?

If they won't, ask when you can expect the original frame to be forward back.

Thank them for their effort, quick response and consideration. In the end, if you are not happy, let others know and don't do business with them again.

The frame I helped my friend build up was the same package you received from the same vendor. Everything was in perfect order. 

Although, it is hard to tell what actually is going on with the frame you resieved by the pictures, it is too bad that, to date, it hasn't been clealy resolved but hopefully it soon will.


----------



## feliperubio

ryanv said:


> I know about running a business in china, it is a joke. it's pretty much scamming and scheming and ripping people off on every level and hoping to make a profit.
> 
> it's easier to trust Easton or nashbar with returns because they are domestic and have to follow the rules. there's no rules in china.
> 
> today's update is that my reject paypal dispute is getting me somewhere. 3-4 days with no reply from the seller and today I get 4 emails. apologizing for the delay but still stating that there's nothing defective with the frame.
> 
> still no confirmation on getting a new frame or refund for shipping fees.


Did the seller ever right to you back? I got a reply from YanQin and he sent me the tracking number and my package will arrive today.


----------



## athletic91

just a quick note

itsallforsports is no longer on ebay


----------



## ryanv

feliperubio said:


> Did the seller ever right to you back? I got a reply from YanQin and he sent me the tracking number and my package will arrive today.


latest update: 

After starting the Paypal dispute, I got a few replies from the seller. They stated that the frame was "tested at the factory, it is fine, no problems". I asked what testing was done and what the results were and I asked for a new frame to be sent and if they wouldn't send a new frame, then I wanted my money back. None of these questions were addressed by the seller.

I did receive a refund for the return shipment fees. Interestingly, the seller's Paypal identification and email address has changed in the last couple days.

I haven't received any indication that I'll get a new frame. I don't know if they plan on sending back the original defective frame either. 

If I get the original frame sent back to me, I'll just paint it and sell it to some unsuspecting person, sell it at a profit even. Pay the scam forward. Typical business practice in China and like the Chinese seller said "no problems". JUST KIDDING!

So far, as of now, I've only lost ~$400.


----------



## silicagel

*My Way*

This is my italian version of the fake-kuota-frame bike. Not that orignal, I guess... unfortunatey, the yob's version (with flashing silver crome handlebar tape, the most unelastic tape I ever experienced in my life) isnt available. I want to thank all the forum mates, their reports and tips have been of GREAT importance for my choice. Mild thanks to the seller(s) bikebycicle99, whoever they are, that after some initial misunderstandings (they asked me to pay twice on Paypal) sent me the items smoothly. Last thanks to the chinese workers who made the frame and everything: a seamless job,indeed! 

Equipment:
Frame and Fork: Kuota Kredo_Fake, size 52 + pinarello-fake fork (surprisingly well balanced!)
Groupset: shimano ultegra grey compact (not as camp as campy chorus 11s or Sram force, but cheap and reliable)
Wheels: (old) Mavic Ksyrium Elite: the basement wheels
Tyres: Michelin Lithion (not too bad)
Pedals: Shimano Ultegra PD-6620-G (very comfortable!)
Saddle: selle italia c2 gel (heavy but kind of an armchair)
Handlebar: Ritchey WCS Logic 2 Wet Black, size 42 (quite cheap and quite light)
Handlebar tape: Deda grey
Seatpost + clamp, cages, stem and headset: chinese whispers...


----------



## Rickk

Thx for the nice pics. I'm also looking at getting a 52 or 50 cm.

Just curious: 

Did you weigh the frame and fork before building to see if the weights were as advertised (or say within + or - 50gms)?

Headset fitted well and is smooth?

Fork & rear dropouts not too far off alignment?

Did he send the barrel adjusters for the down tube (or head tube ) too?

Finally does it fit well? What is your inseam length and height- if you don't mind my asking.

Cheers,
Rickk


----------



## silicagel

Rickk said:


> Just curious:
> 
> Did you weigh the frame and fork before building to see if the weights were as advertised (or say within + or - 50gms)?
> 
> Headset fitted well and is smooth?
> 
> Fork & rear dropouts not too far off alignment?
> 
> Did he send the barrel adjusters for the down tube (or head tube ) too?
> 
> Finally does it fit well? What is your inseam length and height- if you don't mind my asking.
> 
> Cheers,
> Rickk


1- frame is 1.100, fork is 390 sharp, headtube uncut 
2- the headset they sold me is PERFECT
3- bought 2 more rear dropouts (or hanger adaptors, if you like). I was right: the one with the frame wasnt perfectly worked out. the fork is ok.
4- adjusters bought locally
5- fits perfectly! I'm 1.72 and 79 inseam. I'm riding very comfortably. 

if you want to calculate your ideal framesize my advice is: 
http://www.canyon.com/_en/tools/pps.html

hope that helps


----------



## Walkinshaw

I finaly got it 99% tidied up (needs new bar tape) but ive put 800km on it so far, very stable and a whole heap nicer than my Trek1200 (the overlap is a new thing though! going from a 58 to a 52cm frame)










Kredo 52cm
Campagnolo Centaur Carbon
Campagnolo Eurus (tubless Hutchensons)
FSA K-Wing bars
some no name seat (to be replaced)

and change from $3500AUD


----------



## rlim

Call your credit card company. I had a similar eBay experience purchasing an item from a dealer in China where the product arrived defectived. We corresponded by email on the problem and he agreed to pay for the shipment back to China for an exchange. I shipped the item back to the seller but after a few weeks of waiting did not receive any response to any of my emails. I contacted Paypal but was told they could not help me as I did not open a dispute within 3 months. They suggested I contact my credit card company (VISA) which I did. 

VISA asked me when the transaction took placed and the value of the goods. They checked and compared the transaction date and seller id posted on the credit card statement and basically told me they'll look after it and will refund me the money. They stated they will call me back within a couple of days and update me on the claim.

They called after a couple of days and told me everything has been taken care of ... and that was it. It was a painless and positive experience having the credit card supporting their clients. 

Good luck !!





ryanv said:


> latest update:
> 
> After starting the Paypal dispute, I got a few replies from the seller. They stated that the frame was "tested at the factory, it is fine, no problems". I asked what testing was done and what the results were and I asked for a new frame to be sent and if they wouldn't send a new frame, then I wanted my money back. None of these questions were addressed by the seller.
> 
> I did receive a refund for the return shipment fees. Interestingly, the seller's Paypal identification and email address has changed in the last couple days.
> 
> I haven't received any indication that I'll get a new frame. I don't know if they plan on sending back the original defective frame either.
> 
> If I get the original frame sent back to me, I'll just paint it and sell it to some unsuspecting person, sell it at a profit even. Pay the scam forward. Typical business practice in China and like the Chinese seller said "no problems". JUST KIDDING!
> 
> So far, as of now, I've only lost ~$400.


----------



## AJNewBiker

*Where do I find these?*

I'm very interested in these frames. I have found some on eBay. but are you guys finding them on other sites. I've seen some style in this thread that I have not seen on eBay! Thanks

Edit..\\\...Just spent 2 1/2 hours reading all of this! Wow lots of info...I've got to get one!


----------



## single~minded

*This sucks*

Mine is for sale......it is not the right fit for me. Beautiful frame......this really sucks. My local shop is helping my find what size I really need. You can see it built below. Included is the geo specs. It is the 51 (m) frame,fork,headset,collar. PM me
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=2269711#poststop


----------



## jumpman2334

alright sorry of this thread is old, anyways, i didnt wanna make a new one and clutter more crap up, anyways, im thinking about getting one, i need some feedback on the quaily of the frame.

thanks a lot for any help!


----------



## rydog9991

Mine has been great! got around 1500 miles on it and no problems what so ever. The only problem I have heard of is the braze on front derailleur hanger broke off on one frame. Other than that I've heard nothing but posotives.


----------



## jumpman2334

yo thanks for the help!


----------



## binjuice

i bought some hasa carbon forks of ebay very nice they were i was cycling home from the pub doing about 20 mph went over a divit in the road and the steera snapped it was not plesant! BE AWARE!


----------



## biketaviousmaximus

Any pics Binjuice?


----------



## CleavesF

binjuice said:


> i bought some hasa carbon forks of ebay very nice they were i was cycling home from the pub doing about 20 mph went over a divit in the road and the steera snapped it was not plesant! BE AWARE!


*cough* riding a bike, of any brand, is a risk. This obviously would have never happened with "the safety of aluminum steerer"


----------



## binjuice

it was an aluminum steera i'll stick some pics on tomorrow!


----------



## binjuice

:mad2:


----------



## raymonda

Where did this brake occur? The ST is awfully long and this appears to be a brake somewhere between races or bearing, however, there also seems to be a score where the stem clamp would go.


----------



## willhs

Yeah, that tube looks like it was never cut?


----------



## binjuice

the tube was cut down slightly! this should not make any differance should it? shorley if it is dangerous with that length of tube, it should not be sold with it on! the other marks on the tube is just grease and dirt.


----------



## willhs

It looks like it was never cut to me.


----------



## new2steel

i think you put a number of spacers , there's a mark near the top of the steerer which indicates the height of the stem.. Too tall... Putting too much stress on the steerer tube.


----------



## binjuice

what ya talking about willhs! what is your point? i am just stating some fact's do you have some of these forks?


----------



## binjuice

I did have a couple of spacers on there, the frame head measure 180mm the spacers measured 20mm and the stem 40mm i thought that would be normal, does this sound wrong?


----------



## Macilvennon

Hi,

I've just finished building a Kuota Kredo frame which I bought off ebay. I have posted a review and some pictures on another thread:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=2133365&page=9

BK.


----------



## raymonda

binjuice said:


> I did have a couple of spacers on there, the frame head measure 180mm the spacers measured 20mm and the stem 40mm i thought that would be normal, does this sound wrong?


Nope! Sounds fine.


----------



## athletic91

lalahsghost said:


> $99 + $10 shipping, or was that sarcasm?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Hasa-full-...photoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262


does anyone knows where i can still get this fork in the same 12k weave? 
the only forks the ebay sellers have is the pina wavy one and the straight one.

the closest one i can find is this
https://cgi.ebay.com/Full-Carbon-Fi...ash=item5d24ef4ef3&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262
but i do not think it will match my 12k weave kuota kredo oem well


----------



## athletic91

athletic91 said:


> does anyone knows where i can still get this fork in the same 12k weave?
> the only forks the ebay sellers have is the pina wavy one and the straight one.
> 
> the closest one i can find is this
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Full-Carbon-Fib...ash=item5d24ef4ef3&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262
> but i do not think it will match my 12k weave kuota kredo oem well



or is anyone willing to sell me theirs? i only need a steerer length of 190mm


----------



## Rob81

silicagel said:


> 1- frame is 1.100, fork is 390 sharp, headtube uncut
> 2- the headset they sold me is PERFECT
> 3- bought 2 more rear dropouts (or hanger adaptors, if you like). I was right: the one with the frame wasnt perfectly worked out. the fork is ok.
> 4- adjusters bought locally
> 5- fits perfectly! I'm 1.72 and 79 inseam. I'm riding very comfortably.


Hi Silcagel, being myslef in Italy too, how much did you pay for taxes and make it pass through the dogana?


----------



## Timbuctoo

Hello there. I've been wanting to get one of these frames for awhile now because the bike I'm riding is to small. I'm 6'3" or about 192cm tall. My inseam measurement is approx 870mm I think. I've been searching all through eBay and the biggest of these frames is a 58 cm, this is considered XL. I don't want to put down the cash for a 58cm frame if it's still to small for me. I'm wondering if there's anyone else here that is roughly my height and rides one of these 58cm eBay frames. Any help would be great as it will save me the issue of receiving a frame that is still to small. My current bike measures 53cm from crank to the centre of the top tube. It is an aluminium Apollo Raceline frame. Thanks!!


----------



## Macilvennon

*Frame Size Help.*

*Hi Timbuctoo,*

I think that a 58cm frame may just be ok for you. If anything it might be too big.

Have a look at this link:
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/FrameSizeHelp.asp

*For a normal sized frame* (i.e. not sloping geometry) *you should multiple your inseam measurement by 0.65 to get your ideal frame size.* Based on your inseam I would suggest that your ideal frame size is about 56.5cm.

I am 5" 7" and I worked out my correct frame size as about 50cm. I then bought a 50cm frame and it worked out perfect.

Good Luck.


----------



## binjuice

hi Timbuctoo i am 5'11 i have a hasa frame i bought from e bay mine is an xl size it fits me perfectly i am quit long limbed my correct frame size shoul be about 54 its a tough one really you should try one first. saying that i just went for it! sorry to throw the spanner in the works


----------



## stevesbike

Timbuctoo, formulas based on inseam are very approximate (e.g., the previous post about a 58 being if anything too big for you is wrong). With standard and compact frames having very different seat tube lengths, the best point to compare is horizontal top tube (on a compact frame this is not the actual top tube length but a virtual one). If there's doubt on what is being measured, it is good to ask the seller to clarify.

At your height (I'm 6'3 as well) you could fit onto a 58 but it will be toward the small end for you. I ride some 58 top tube frames with a 130mm stem - this is an aggressive, race position (substantial drop to the bars). I prefer a 59 top tube, which has a longer headtube (so the position is not quite so low). Some 58s I see on ebay (the carbon ones) have a 190 headtube so that's a bit longer than many 58s and would be OK (if I were sizing it for me). Like the one below: 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Full-Carbon-Roa...6342ed961&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_1829wt_1165


----------



## dysseldorf

I purchased the same. Any problems for you so far?


----------



## dysseldorf

kr1zje said:


> I exchange hasa for "kuota kredo", overall is 7148g, L size with 562mm top tube lenght.


Mega nice bike. how does it hold up? Any problems?


----------



## ohpossum

Crap, I'm always late to the party... 

Does anyone know if the LXM knock-off is still sold somewhere? 

44cm compact geo with approximately 53cm ETT and 70+ head angle..

It's the RF-2 at http://www.carbon-fiber-products.com.cn/ and was the start of this whole thing when RaymondA bought his..

Thanks!

op


----------



## jumpman2334

ohpossum said:


> Crap, I'm always late to the party...
> 
> Does anyone know if the LXM knock-off is still sold somewhere?
> 
> 44cm compact geo with approximately 53cm ETT and 70+ head angle..
> 
> It's the RF-2 at http://www.carbon-fiber-products.com.cn/ and was the start of this whole thing when RaymondA bought his..
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> op


how do you see your prices and buy from them on their site?


----------



## dysseldorf

I have just resieved my kredo oem with carbon fork. What do i need reguarding headset components? What headset should i buy (not to expencive)?


----------



## raymonda

Any Campy standard.


----------



## dysseldorf

Ok, but what size, etc?


----------



## feliperubio

dysseldorf said:


> I have just resieved my kredo oem with carbon fork. What do i need reguarding headset components? What headset should i buy (not to expencive)?


A cane creek 1/1/8 integrated headset (campy style) is the one that you need. You will definately have to order it since it is not a common headset.


----------



## Rob81

I guess a 45°/45° Campy style, yellow seal.
Cane Creeks are 36°/45°


----------



## PLAYONIT

It is nice to find this thread.. I just purchased the frame pictured without paint and graphics in the smaller weave 3/k carbon and a set of carbon 50mm rims... great price good communication so far ... Just received e-mail that it will go to production next week... Any ideas where I can send the wheels to get hubs and laced?? I have heard most builders don't like building with customer supplied rims??


----------



## dismal

Macilvennon said:


> *Hi Timbuctoo,*
> 
> I think that a 58cm frame may just be ok for you. If anything it might be too big.
> 
> Have a look at this link:
> http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/FrameSizeHelp.asp
> 
> *For a normal sized frame* (i.e. not sloping geometry) *you should multiple your inseam measurement by 0.65 to get your ideal frame size.* Based on your inseam I would suggest that your ideal frame size is about 56.5cm.
> 
> I am 5" 7" and I worked out my correct frame size as about 50cm. I then bought a 50cm frame and it worked out perfect.
> 
> Good Luck.


I don't think that's accurate at all. That frame sounds much too small for you, unless you like being hunched over and having miles of seat tube showing. Anyway, where did you get that formula?


----------



## raymonda

dysseldorf said:


> Ok, but what size, etc?


1 1/8 inch campy standard


----------



## dysseldorf

thanx


----------



## dysseldorf

Anyone who have had Kuota Kredo frame for a while. Does it feel safe to ride, or shall one be extra careful at high speeds, etc? Is there anyone whose frame has been broken 
while riding?


----------



## josephjcole

dysseldorf said:


> Anyone who have had Kuota Kredo frame for a while. Does it feel safe to ride, or shall one be extra careful at high speeds, etc? Is there anyone whose frame has been broken
> while riding?


Mine feels extra fast at high speeds 


oh.... and safe

Joe


----------



## dysseldorf

Ok. 
In that case I will move my favorite components from my Bianchi Via Nirone. Hope the new fake kuota is an upgrade. 

I have the carbon fork, which I got with the frame. Is there anyone who has tested it? Is it safe?


----------



## silicagel

PLAYONIT said:


> It is nice to find this thread.. I just purchased the frame pictured without paint and graphics in the smaller weave 3/k carbon and a set of carbon 50mm rims... great price good communication so far ... Just received e-mail that it will go to production next week... Any ideas where I can send the wheels to get hubs and laced?? I have heard most builders don't like building with customer supplied rims??


Playonit, could you tell the forum how much did you pay for each item and how much the custom duties amount to? did you use paypal? Thanks a lot!


----------



## PLAYONIT

silicagel said:


> Playonit, could you tell the forum how much did you pay for each item and how much the custom duties amount to? did you use paypal? Thanks a lot!


I paid $425 frame and fork $53 handlebar $242 rims $105 shipping. this frame takes a tapered headset 1 1/8" top 1 1/2" bottom there throwing one in but I will probably replace depending on the quality of the one sent. This factory makes frames for several builders but of course, they would not name them.. this order has a 25 day lead time and my order will not ship until 9/22. I used Paypal.. No duties that I am aware of yet hopefully, it's listed as a gift..


----------



## silicagel

Thanks for your replay, Playonit. Looking around I found a possible pix of your future bike
its a perfect copy of a Cervelo!!! A wonder, believe me! Enjoy it!!!


----------



## oris

silicagel said:


> Thanks for your replay, Playonit. Looking around I found a possible pix of your future bike
> its a perfect copy of a Cervelo!!! A wonder, believe me! Enjoy it!!!


that's actually a different bike. i ordered the one pictured. should be shipping on the 10th. if anyone was interested, playonit's is currently available in 53cm. there's a 25-32 day lead time to manufacture other sizes. 

playonit, are you talking to jenny? are you getting firm ship dates from her?


----------



## PLAYONIT

oris said:


> that's actually a different bike. i ordered the one pictured. should be shipping on the 10th. if anyone was interested, playonit's is currently available in 53cm. there's a 25-32 day lead time to manufacture other sizes.
> 
> playonit, are you talking to jenny? are you getting firm ship dates from her?


She told me shipping 9/22.. I will call around the 15th to see if we're still on track... Having my money for over a month make's me nervous..but she seems wonderful and has been a pleasure to deal with.. Also, the complete bike pictured is not the frame I bought.. but I almost did..
Cheers


----------



## Rob81

Here it is mine.
My target was to build the best quality/price bike I can afford.
Total was 1350€=1950US$
Not bad at all and even good loocking, IMHO
Share your opinions



Full size link (big pic)
https://img168.imageshack.us/img168/3655/p9030100.jpg


----------



## learn2ride

Oris and PLAYONIT - I would be super keen to hear more about your experiences with this particular company - http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/ - basically I have been sitting on the fence for going for one of two of the five frames they have on offer for about 2 months completely unsure whether to dive in or not; so please keep us posted!

Oris - did you lace those rimms up yourself? There was a massive lead on them when I spoke to her. I am assuming 'jenny' is the same as anybaby8088 on ebay?

PLAYONIT I would be very interested to know your opinion on that frame, it is the one I am leaning toward but I am concerned about those very narrow backstays. I would love to know if the bike is A) stiff an B) feels solid enough that if I were to do something silly like walk into it in the dark in the middle of the night, not crack those stays with my knee.


----------



## oris

learn2ride said:


> Oris and PLAYONIT - I would be super keen to hear more about your experiences with this particular company - http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/ - basically I have been sitting on the fence for going for one of two of the five frames they have on offer for about 2 months completely unsure whether to dive in or not; so please keep us posted!
> 
> Oris - did you lace those rimms up yourself? There was a massive lead on them when I spoke to her. I am assuming 'jenny' is the same as anybaby8088 on ebay?
> 
> PLAYONIT I would be very interested to know your opinion on that frame, it is the one I am leaning toward but I am concerned about those very narrow backstays. I would love to know if the bike is A) stiff an B) feels solid enough that if I were to do something silly like walk into it in the dark in the middle of the night, not crack those stays with my knee.



learn2ride- yes, jenny is anybaby8088 on ebay. i thought it was a little weird that her name tag on gmail is "andy". i actually haven't received the frameset and rims yet. 

playonit- i hear you there. that's why i chose to go with a different frameset. let us know how the build comes along.


----------



## Rivendell

Hi,

I've been reading these threads with interest. I'm very keen to upgrade from my Alu framed, 105 groupset bike. I've been riding for about a year and feel the time for an upgrade is now. I do have a budget however...which is why this thread interests me so much. 

My budget is approx 1000GBP ($1600 USD approx) for the complete build. I'd like to upgrade to Ultegra / SRAM Force level groupset and would also like some better wheels than my current Mavic Aksiums. 

Question is, could a relative newcomer build up a bike with relatively little experience? Are there any good sources of info that could help me learn how to build it up (other than this forum)?

Secondly, are my costings realistic for what I want to build? I could possibly save myself some effort and go for something like this: 

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/..._productId_502043_langId_-1_categoryId_165710

...but I would miss out on the fun of the project and the prospect of building a bespoke bike. 

Any advice for a relative newcomer would be most welcome!


----------



## fab4

Here's my generic carbon Cannondale road bike. Bought it at ebay from 88bikefun. had it for 3 months and put it 200 miles on it with no problems whatsoever.


----------



## Rob81

OT
anyone tired Chinese/HK made carbon WHEELS?
I don't find them on ebay, but you can find them on Alibaba.com


----------



## athletic91

oh no!
just receive my ebay fork today. when i shake it, seems like there is some rattling inside.

whats wrong?


----------



## learn2ride

ORIS - How is the frame? Did it arrive on time?


----------



## oris

learn2ride said:


> ORIS - How is the frame? Did it arrive on time?


Actually haven't received it yet. It shipped on the 12th since production got delayed. I should be expecting it tomorrow or Monday. USPS has horrible tracking by the way; last update was on the 16th when it left New York. I'll keep you all posted.


----------



## Valdora

athletic91 said:


> oh no!
> just receive my ebay fork today. when i shake it, seems like there is some rattling inside.
> 
> whats wrong?



Resin ball or pc of poly bladder. Most likely NO need to worry.
:thumbsup: good luck


----------



## oris

well its arrivde but no pics just yet. got to get my digital camera back first. pics soon to come.


----------



## Robefa

And waiting for the pics we are


----------



## athletic91

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120472770025

i got this rims off my local craiglist.
however wheelbuilders in my country is charging a premium to build them up.
i have no choice but to release them

hope one of you guys here will pick em up


----------



## oris

well, the fiance decided to take my camera to take pics of her dog so yea...i took a few pics with my iphone. unfortunately, the build will be delayed since they forgot to send the fork. i've spoken to jenny about it and she'll be sending one out. shipping was pretty quick; 5 business days. 

one thing i noticed is the indentation on the seat tube. i'm quite curious as to what's it for assuming it supposed to be there.


----------



## PLAYONIT

oris said:


> well, the fiance decided to take my camera to take pics of her dog so yea...i took a few pics with my iphone. unfortunately, the build will be delayed since they forgot to send the fork. i've spoken to jenny about it and she'll be sending one out. shipping was pretty quick; 5 business days.
> 
> one thing i noticed is the indentation on the seat tube. i'm quite curious as to what's it for assuming it supposed to be there.


My frame that I ordered which is a different model.. Has that also but a little different shape.. I think it might be to give the FD cable a little room.. I should be getting my frame soon from Jenny it shipped on the 19th.. did yours deliver usps to your door or did you have to pick it up at the post office?? looks like a great frame...


----------



## Robefa

Have any of you ordered the frame with integrated seat post and internal cable routing (HF-FM015-SPL)?

Thats the frame I want to see pictures of.


----------



## bowman32

That is the frame (FM015-SPL) I ordered a couple of weeks ago from Jenny. It is scheduled to ship from their factory on the 28th.


----------



## PLAYONIT

Robefa said:


> Have any of you ordered the frame with integrated seat post and internal cable routing (HF-FM015-SPL)?
> 
> Thats the frame I want to see pictures of.


Yes...that's the frame I ordered... should be here in today or tomorrow and I will post picks...


----------



## Robefa

PLAYONIT said:


> Yes...that's the frame I ordered... should be here in today or tomorrow and I will post picks...


Thx in advance to both of you bowman32 and PLAYONIT, looking forward to see some pictures of that frame. 

A review maby?

The frame is out on eBay from a UK seller, but with a higher price tag.

Link here


----------



## oris

yea usps delivered it to my door. i chose this frame over the fm-015spl since the lead time was a little too long for me.


----------



## RC28

oris said:


> one thing i noticed is the indentation on the seat tube. i'm quite curious as to what's it for assuming it supposed to be there.


The indentation is there to give room to the FD mechanism and cable.


----------



## Tim_D

Cheers, oris -- nice one. Just waiting on Playonit's foties before I order... 

Quick q.: what would you all say is the advantage of the integrated seat tube version over the standard? Comfort? Weight?

Also, has anyone noticed they also do a mean track frame? (Listed as 'Trekking' frames on the site.) Although at $760 plus shipping, they are pretty expensive compared to the road frames.

Robefa -- checked your link, thanks. Hmmm... not particularly light, is it? 1.6 kg for frame & fork (and seatpost, of course). The equivalent Cervelo frame (the R3) is around 900g frame-only.


----------



## Robefa

Tim_D said:


> Cheers, oris -- nice one. Just waiting on Playonit's foties before I order...
> 
> Quick q.: what would you all say is the advantage of the integrated seat tube version over the standard? Comfort? Weight?
> 
> Also, has anyone noticed they also do a mean track frame? (Listed as 'Trekking' frames on the site.) Although at $760 plus shipping, they are pretty expensive compared to the road frames.
> 
> Robefa -- checked your link, thanks. Hmmm... not particularly light, is it? 1.6 kg for frame & fork (and seatpost, of course). The equivalent Cervelo frame (the R3) is around 900g frame-only.


Tim_D: The Cervelo R3 is ca 1450g complete (frame, fork, seatpost, headset – without fittings). A 150-200g penalty for the Hong Fu frame with ISP is nothing if you compare the price tags of the two frames, + the joy of adding your own colors to the frame. Both frames are light enough.

Integrated seat post: the looks. 

Questions about the seat tube dent: Heres why dent


----------



## oris

ahh i see. thanks for the info, robefa. 

i'm looking forward to seeing the pics from playonit also. just a note to playonit and bowman32, make sure to check for barrel adjusters when you receive the frame. mine didn't come with any as well as the fork. apparently they're out of stock and the next production run is set to ship on the 30th.


----------



## Tim_D

Robefa --

Right... I think I was thinking of the R3 SL: an article on Cervelo's site (the mad French weight-reducing one) lists it as 875g! Actually, J quoted me 1100g for my frame size (580mm) plus 395g for the forks, so it's comparable to the R3.

Also, the HF is nowhere near as sloping as the Cervelo. They could have saved a fair few grammes there...


----------



## bowman32

Oris - I wouldn't think they would actually make their own barrel adjusters... perhaps they are waiting on a shipment? Either way... thanks for the tip. I'll look out for it when it arrives.

It seems to me that the FM015-SPL most closely resembles the Ridley Helium. Initially, I thought the tapered steerer was common place, but a 1-1/8" to 1-1/2" is actually very rare. They typically taper to 1-1/4" max. It seems the newest Helium has this tapered headtube and the lines of the frame are at least very similar.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/photos/ridley-2010-preview/75518


----------



## PLAYONIT

This appears to be the same frame also....

http://www.cube-bikes.de/xist4c/web/litening-hpc-race-e_id_36186_.htm


----------



## PLAYONIT

Just received my frame,rims and bars at work from Hongfu-Bikes... Beautiful I will post pics this evening... the 3/k carbon looks real good. after un-packing... the frame w/fork and ISP stubby seat post weigh's 

1768.5 grams
3.89 lbs.
1.77 kg.

shipped from China 9/19 received in Tonawanda, NY 9/24 pretty amazing considering a UPS shipment from California takes 6-7 days..


----------



## HeluvaSkier

PLAYONIT said:


> Just received my frame,rims and bars at work from Hongfu-Bikes... Beautiful I will post pics this evening... the 3/k carbon looks real good. after un-packing... the frame w/fork and ISP stubby seat post weigh's
> 
> 1768.5 grams
> 3.89 lbs.
> 1.77 kg.
> 
> shipped from China 9/19 received in Tonawanda, NY 9/24 pretty amazing considering a UPS shipment from California takes 6-7 days..


I'd love to come check it out for size. PM me with your availability (live in Amherst and work at UB)!


----------



## Robefa

PLAYONIT said:


> Just received my frame,rims and bars at work from Hongfu-Bikes... Beautiful I will post pics this evening... the 3/k carbon looks real good. after un-packing... the frame w/fork and ISP stubby seat post weigh's
> 
> 1768.5 grams
> 3.89 lbs.
> 1.77 kg.
> 
> shipped from China 9/19 received in Tonawanda, NY 9/24 pretty amazing considering a UPS shipment from California takes 6-7 days..


Excellent, cant wait to see the pictures. 

Could you take some closeups of the BB housing, seat post, and the internal cable routing holes, openings, thing.

Pretty high on the weight scale, whats the size? 

Could you also check the geometry measurements, that they match the numbers on their web site.

Whats the weight for the frame alone?

Do you have any plans for the color/graphics, or do you want to go raw carbon?


----------



## PLAYONIT

Well here's some pics... I will post better natural light pics when I am not so tired .. (daughters swim meet tonight) looks good a couple of very minor rough spots but I am very pleased....


----------



## bowman32

Photos look awesome! I now cannot wait for mine to arrive. Thanks for the pics.


----------



## mrbubbles

Is that a 51cm frame? 

How long is the top tubed and bb to top of seat clamp measured?


----------



## Tim_D

Thanks for posting those...It looks beautiful with that 3K weave, but 1.77 kg is pretty heavy... it looks like a small-ish frame size.

Can you tell us the Top-tube size, and photograph it with some wheels in, to gauge the size?


----------



## HeluvaSkier

Beautiful frame. I can't wait to see it. 

All things considered, if he weighed the frame with the headset and the stubby post clamp, 1.77kg is not that heavy. The frame will shed considerable weight when the tubes are cut to size.


----------



## mattah

Got my frame + bits today also. I'll get some pics up tomorrow but from what I saw of it unpacking it this afternoon it looked great.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

I just saw PLAYONIT's frame - it is NICE. It was weighed without the headset (FYI), but with the stubby saddle/post clamp. I'll be ordering soon.


----------



## independentmind

HeluvaSkier: Are the seat stays as thin as they look on the pic? They look....hmmm scary? Do they inspire more confidence in person? Mind you, the new Cannondales have similar seat stays to this. This is my only point of contention right now, i may go with another model, but this looks nice.

And to those who are not happy with the weave on their frames, i took a close look at a Specialized (i think it may have been a Tarmac, but a earlier model) last week that had portions of naked carbon and the weave was not so pretty near the tob tube and head tube junction.

Nice builds everyone :thumbsup:


----------



## HeluvaSkier

independentmind said:


> HeluvaSkier: Are the seat stays as thin as they look on the pic? They look....hmmm scary? Do they inspire more confidence in person? Mind you, the new Cannondales have similar seat stays to this. This is my only point of contention right now, i may go with another model, but this looks nice.


The seat stays are actually a lot beefier than they appear in the pictures. They are actually elliptical instead of round. My assumption is that they are elliptical so that the bike is stiff laterally (it is VERY stiff laterally in the stays) but vertically compliant (isn't that the lingo..? :wink5. The 3k finish on his bike is really nice as well. There are only a few rough spots in the clear coat around the internally routed cables and the brake caliper attachment hole on the fork (this is nit-picking). There are no gaps in the 3k finish, and the only seam that is visible is on the underside of the down tube. 

All things considered, I am really impressed with the quality of the frame. I don't mind the little bit of extra weight because the frame and fork look and feel solid (interestingly, feels more solid than my KTM Strada frame). The frame absolutely inspires confidence - so much that I will be ordering mine within a day or so. The frame that PLAYONIT has is a 51, and by the sounds of his description when measuring it - it came in right at the measurements that the Hong-Fu site quoted. I'm about 5'7" and will be ordering a 51 as well. I think I could ride a 53, but will be better-off on the 51 with a 120mm stem. 

Also - one thing to note - after seeing this bike I really believe it is the 53cm Cube Litening frame. I don't think there is anything to be afraid of with the frame or the company. 

Later

Greg


----------



## PLAYONIT

Tim_D said:


> Thanks for posting those...It looks beautiful with that 3K weave, but 1.77 kg is pretty heavy... it looks like a small-ish frame size.
> 
> Can you tell us the Top-tube size, and photograph it with some wheels in, to gauge the size?


Top tube size is 51cm... I have built wheels yet.......


----------



## independentmind

HeluvaSkier said:


> The seat stays are actually a lot beefier than they appear in the pictures. They are actually elliptical instead of round. My assumption is that they are elliptical so that the bike is stiff laterally (it is VERY stiff laterally in the stays) but vertically compliant (isn't that the lingo..? :wink5. The 3k finish on his bike is really nice as well. There are only a few rough spots in the clear coat around the internally routed cables and the brake caliper attachment hole on the fork (this is nit-picking). There are no gaps in the 3k finish, and the only seam that is visible is on the underside of the down tube.
> 
> All things considered, I am really impressed with the quality of the frame. I don't mind the little bit of extra weight because the frame and fork look and feel solid (interestingly, feels more solid than my KTM Strada frame). The frame absolutely inspires confidence - so much that I will be ordering mine within a day or so. The frame that PLAYONIT has is a 51, and by the sounds of his description when measuring it - it came in right at the measurements that the Hong-Fu site quoted. I'm about 5'7" and will be ordering a 51 as well. I think I could ride a 53, but will be better-off on the 51 with a 120mm stem.
> 
> Also - one thing to note - after seeing this bike I really believe it is the 53cm Cube Litening frame. I don't think there is anything to be afraid of with the frame or the company.
> 
> Later
> 
> Greg


Thanks for that. I think i'll be ordering within the next couple of weeks. This build will be Ultegra/105 (10 speed and not as exotic as most on here). I'll be using the bike for charity rides and to train for a triathlon (yes i know it's not a TT bike).

Now to figure out my size and then the wheels.  I can see this being a really fun off season project


----------



## RC28

HeluvaSkier said:


> Also - one thing to note - after seeing this bike I really believe it is the 53cm Cube Litening frame. I don't think there is anything to be afraid of with the frame or the company.
> 
> Later
> 
> Greg


Not the same frame. The Cube (at least the one PLAYONIT posted the link to before) has internal cable routing on the chainstays for the rear derailleur. Yours does not. And the rest of the Litening models do not have an ISP.

Still, yours is quite a good looking frame.


----------



## PLAYONIT

RC28 said:


> Not the same frame. The Cube (at least the one PLAYONIT posted the link to before) has internal cable routing on the chainstays for the rear derailleur. Yours does not. And the rest of the Litening models do not have an ISP.
> 
> Still, yours is quite a good looking frame.



It would not be hard to work with the manufacturer to get tweaks to the frame to fit their specific application.. also not hard for Cube to drill hole's and install the rubber grommets at the cable enter/exit holes . The manufacturer can also supply the same frame without the ISP as seen in the link

https://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Upload/Pic/200971923377719.jpg


----------



## Tim_D

independentmind said:


> HeluvaSkier: Are the seat stays as thin as they look on the pic? They look....hmmm scary? Do they inspire more confidence in person?
> Nice builds everyone :thumbsup:


Remember, Stuart O'Grady and Fabian Cancellara both won Paris-Roubaix on Cervelos with similar-dimension seat-stays. I think they should hold up!


----------



## stevesbike

Tim_D said:


> Remember, Stuart O'Grady and Fabian Cancellara both won Paris-Roubaix on Cervelos with similar-dimension seat-stays. I think they should hold up!


there's a lot of comparisons going on among various frames based on pictures (like the cube) and the hong fu. Just because frames look similar in pics doesn't mean they are the same, e.g., the pedalforce CG1 with fork, ISP and seat clamp is over 450 grams lighter than the hong fu in the same size.


----------



## PLAYONIT

nrf000 said:


> Question:
> 
> Are you guys buying these frames from an eBay auction, or directly from the website?
> 
> I have seen this frame listed for sale by eBay seller anybaby8088, but it is just a photo below the listing of a different frame.... like this one:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250499214384&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> I am interested in the 015-SPL or the 015 models.
> 
> 
> Thanks for your help.


anybaby8088 is Hongfu-bikes.I bought direct from them .. Jenny is a joy to work with and will answer all questions quick and the service outstanding. The frame is top notch.. the only set back is there is about a 25 day manufacturing window currently..... 


http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Products.asp?Id=423


----------



## royd

*Great frame*

Playonit
Did you get the matt or gloss finish on your frame?


----------



## PLAYONIT

royd said:


> Playonit
> Did you get the matt or gloss finish on your frame?



Gloss finish.....


----------



## royd

Thanks,
I am about to pull the trigger on the fm015 frame/fork/handlebar


----------



## athletic91

are you guys able to get a reply from bicycle_999. they last reply i had was on thursday.
efforts to communicate everyday did not get me a reply.

the other ebay seller dun seem to return emails too


----------



## athletic91

did any of you guys manage to get replies from the ebay sellers? they dont seem to respond over the past 5 days


----------



## HeluvaSkier

athletic91 said:


> did any of you guys manage to get replies from the ebay sellers? they dont seem to respond over the past 5 days


I've been using direct email communication with both Jenny (hong-fu) and bikebicycle_99. I actually have a full excel spreadsheet of what bikebicycle_99 has in inventory. PM me if you're interested in seeing it (I'll also give you a direct email address).


----------



## athletic91

i got a automated email reply that they will be away till october 3.
reason cited is nation day. wow the chinese have good holidays


----------



## PLAYONIT

Here are some better natural light pics of my new frame set then the one's I posted earlier using a flash...


----------



## bowman32

Awesome pics. It looks even better in the natural light than with the flash in your garage.

Thanks for posting.


----------



## royd

Nice frame, is that the 3k or 12K?


----------



## PLAYONIT

royd said:


> Nice frame, is that the 3k or 12K?



Thanks....... it's 3K T700


----------



## royd

Jenny quoted me the 12K, but I like the weave on the 3K better. I will check to see if the 3K is available.


----------



## PLAYONIT

royd said:


> Jenny quoted me the 12K, but I like the weave on the 3K better. I will check to see if the 3K is available.


What frame did you get a quote on? She will make what ever you want.. it may add some lead time days but you will get what you want. They also will do a BB30 bottom end on it if you desire that...


----------



## KMan

Why is the frame solid black around all the joints and cable stops? Did you request this or is that the way they are all made??

Its a nice frame especially for the $$, but I hate to say it, the solid black around all the bonding areas really makes that nice frame look a bit crappy - just my taste though. If that is they way they all ship I'd probably looke to get one with a solid Matte Black finish.

Michael




PLAYONIT said:


> Here are some better natural light pics of my new frame set then the one's I posted earlier using a flash...


----------



## asad137

KMan said:


> Why is the frame solid black around all the joints and cable stops?


My guess is it's this way to cover up the joins. It would probably look worse if those areas were just clearcoated.

Asad


----------



## KMan

*Maybe just the photos*

Maybe it's just the photo, but my "name brand" carbon bike does not have this "black" on the joints. The more I look at it the worse it really looks. Is this with all the different Ebay Brand carbon frame of just from this seller? It just really seems out of place - I don't recall ever seeing this on any of the other frame posted in these ebay frame threads.

...and my comment above about a "name brand" frame is not to be taken as a jab at these inexpensive frames. I think these ebay frames area great deal and will probably end up getting a Time Trial frame from a similiar type seller.

Edit: I just took a quick look back thru all the frames/bikes posted in this thread and none of them have this "blacked out" at the joints. I think this may be seller specific. So I guess it goes to teach you to pay attention to what your are buying, down to the details. 

Michael





asad137 said:


> My guess is it's this way to cover up the joins. It would probably look worse if those areas were just clearcoated.
> 
> Asad


----------



## tron

Maybe while the frame is still unbuilt you can have it sent off for painting then you wont even notice it. I saw some deadl recently for a place in portland that looked pretty sweet.


----------



## independentmind

*Black spots*

It really isn't that bad. Don't sweat it so much, that frame still looks mint! I actually like the dark fade on the BB area.

I think once you have the cables setup you wont notice it much (you may want to stick with black cables though.) You could have it painted before setup like another person mentioned.

With that said. It is possible to get this same frame from the same ebay retailer painted black, or solid white (i saw this on the website, but i wont recomend the white. My current ride is white throughout and it shows every small ding to the clearcoat, the carbon from the brakes after a long ride and any grease after maintenance. Once a month for my maintenance session i have to go over the frame with Mr. Clean bleach pads to get the black oil sooth off)


----------



## independentmind

Im probably not supposed to do this. But i just saw this deal on a Ultegra RD online that someone in this thread may appreciate if they're building up one of these frames.

I just picked up the same thing used for way more and i had to upgrade to aftermarket jockey wheels (bearings were crap on the old ones)

http://www.cambriabike.com/shopexd....tm_medium=product%2Bcpc&utm_campaign=HotDeals


----------



## Sh!ne

What's the quality of those rims?


----------



## PLAYONIT

Sh!ne said:


> What's the quality of those rims?


If your talking about the ones I posted..... they're fine... quality appears to be satisfactory.... I will have them built soon.... but as the saying goes "the proof is in the pudding" they have to be ridden.......to tell.


----------



## dexdes

*For what it's worth*

Seems like people are moving on to more advanced frame designs but for what it's worth I'll post my pseudo kredo build - may be instructive for some...

This is actually my second build. The first, a 52cm got ripped off out of my home along with my old K2 Mod 4.0 triple (loved that bike, dammit). This time around I went with the 50cm frame because I was riding my friend's on loan and it just seemed to fit better (note: my K2 has/had a very compact geometry which I liked so I sort of have a smaller is better mentality. Well mostly...). I knew I wanted top flite componentry which I purchased almost entirely online through various shops (nashbar, performance, bikebling, ebike, alfred e bike, etc.) and ebay. If you know what you want, keep digging and be patient and you will eventually find a decent price (www.qbike.com is a good resource).

Impressions? Damn good. Is it incredible? No, but it rides well, climbs with ease, and descends like a mofo (I live in the mountains outside Salt Lake City). Downsides: It's somewhat noisy (hollow monocoque, no foam), cheap cable guide posts, finish is less than perfect - mostly issues raised before by others. Assembly was quite easy if you're the least bit mechanically inclined; just make sure you have the proper tools (bottom bracket socket, cassette socket, and hex socket set most notably). It's carbon so you're a fool if you don't use a torque wrench. Remember to use lots of good grease and carbon compound when fastening components. In retrospect, I might have gone with the 52cm again since the gearing works slightly better (longer chainstay therefore less angularity when cross-chaining) but the 50cm feels really nice and compact under me (I'm 5'8" / 160 lb). On the first build I went with the cheapo carbon handlebars and seatpost; on the second, I only got the frame and fork (and a couple of bottle cages) opting to use branded components instead (better geometry selection, better quality, just as light or lighter).

As you can see from the enclosed parts list, the beast completely built came in under $3,000 including full SRAM Red gruppo and Easton EA90 SLX wheelset (one of the lightest aluminum clincher sets on the market). With Look KEO carbons, it cost just over $3K. People are astonished I could build a sub 15.5 lb bike (w/o pedals) for that price. It looks beautiful and people are very intrigued by the nude carbon "stealth" look and SRAM Red on the cheap. Still don't know if I'll put graphics on it - I'm a bit lazy this time of year and am looking forward to skiing actually.

Anyway, there you have it. I've now built up two of these things and ridden both quite a bit so I suppose I'm pretty well schooled on what they're about. You're welcome to ask questions but I can be a lazy SOB so I may or may not reply in good time. My recommendation to you is, "Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son..." So get educated, build one, and have fun with it.

PS - I was having problems with chain noise (even with the SRAM Red 1090R top of the line chain, go figure) so I bought some Chain-L and that really quieted things down. Best damn lube I've ever found. And it's made by some dude - Francis - out of his garage or house or whatever so you gots to love that! www.chain-l.com


----------



## chocy

Dexdes. 

your frame looks great!!. 

Some ride report... 

I have ridden my Psuedo Credo frame for about 3000+ miles now (picture of my bike on this thread somewhere. It has served me greatly. and did the job well. relatively light, stiff enough where it needs to be and silences the road vibration well enough. I did countless laps around central park and a few centuries plus some urban riding around the city. I had a few incidents where I thought it developed some creaking noise but in the end it was just not enough grease in certain joints. The frameset proved to be more than reliable. 

Then Last week, I was doing some after work laps at central park in the dark. Near 110st street entrace, I was cranking hard so I looked down at my leg then I looked up then I said, ohh cr*p. There were a couple portable metal railing for crowd control standing in middle of the road and I was two feet away from it going 18MPH (thank god it was a slight up hill). Of course I hit it head on. not suprisingly this massive railing flung open, making a real loud bang. But suprisingly I did not really feel much of the impact and I stoped on my feet. 

I thought to myself, oh, at least my front wheel is toast, so I checked it and to my surprise after adjusting my front break the wheel was still true and fine. and everything seemed all right. I was amazed of course and felt very lucky to leave unscaved from this incident. Feeling pumped, I did another lap (6miles) at 20MPH ave. and road it home (another 6 miles of urban riding plus going over Queensbourough Bridge going 20MPH+ downthe bridge) 

Feeling all fine after a short but a decent ride I was hanging up my bike then I realized that my bike was flaking behind the headtube. In fact, there was a significant crack on the frame, that apeared just like car's crushed crumple zone. What was amazing was that I was able to still ride it home.(Got real LUCKY and I DO NOT recommend riding cracked carbon frame, regardless of its origin) It stll is good enough for my trainer workout. 

So my conclusion is that these bike may not be the state of the art carbon technology but one thing for sure is that it is realiable enough and safe as carbon can be. I really believe that my crash was hard enough to crack any carbon frame, it may even have damaged a decent metal frame too. What was amazing was carbon's ability to give and minimize the impact too.

Luckly my lovely wife is letting me get another frame. And I just ordered a 53cm hong fu SPL frame from Jenny. She had 12K weave in stock so I bought it and she will ship it tomorrow (2 day after payment) I will be building this one with 2010 sram force group set. 
so I will report on this new one soon..


----------



## PLAYONIT

chocy said:


> Dexdes.
> 
> your frame looks great!!.
> 
> Some ride report...
> 
> I have ridden my Psuedo Credo frame for about 3000+ miles now (picture of my bike on this thread somewhere. It has served me greatly. and did the job well. relatively light, stiff enough where it needs to be and silences the road vibration well enough. I did countless laps around central park and a few centuries plus some urban riding around the city. I had a few incidents where I thought it developed some creaking noise but in the end it was just not enough grease in certain joints. The frameset proved to be more than reliable.
> 
> Then Last week, I was doing some after work laps at central park in the dark. Near 110st street entrace, I was cranking hard so I looked down at my leg then I looked up then I said, ohh cr*p. There were a couple portable metal railing for crowd control standing in middle of the road and I was two feet away from it going 18MPH (thank god it was a slight up hill). Of course I hit it head on. not suprisingly this massive railing flung open, making a real loud bang. But suprisingly I did not really feel much of the impact and I stoped on my feet.
> 
> I thought to myself, oh, at least my front wheel is toast, so I checked it and to my surprise after adjusting my front break the wheel was still true and fine. and everything seemed all right. I was amazed of course and felt very lucky to leave unscaved from this incident. Feeling pumped, I did another lap (6miles) at 20MPH ave. and road it home (another 6 miles of urban riding plus going over Queensbourough Bridge going 20MPH+ downthe bridge)
> 
> Feeling all fine after a short but a decent ride I was hanging up my bike then I realized that my bike was flaking behind the headtube. In fact, there was a significant crack on the frame, that apeared just like car's crushed crumple zone. What was amazing was that I was able to still ride it home.(Got real LUCKY and I DO NOT recommend riding cracked carbon frame, regardless of its origin) It stll is good enough for my trainer workout.
> 
> So my conclusion is that these bike may not be the state of the art carbon technology but one thing for sure is that it is realiable enough and safe as carbon can be. I really believe that my crash was hard enough to crack any carbon frame, it may even have damaged a decent metal frame too. What was amazing was carbon's ability to give and minimize the impact too.
> 
> Luckly my lovely wife is letting me get another frame. And I just ordered a 53cm hong fu SPL frame from Jenny. She had 12K weave in stock so I bought it and she will ship it tomorrow (2 day after payment) I will be building this one with 2010 sram force group set.
> so I will report on this new one soon..



Good to hear you are all right and have a understanding wife...Hah...you are going to love the new frame.... if it was like mine shipped to Western New York you should have it 4-5 days after she shipped it...


----------



## pianopiano

*Nice deal*

Your new frame looks great. Good luck with your build, and enjoy the ride! You'll have to keep providing updates. :thumbsup: 

I've been looking rims identical to those that you've picked up, but I'm a little skeptical of their advertised weight (440g +/-15g for tubular, 480g +/-10g for clinchers). If there's ever a chance that you might weigh them out of curiosity, I'd really like to see what they honestly come in at.


----------



## PLAYONIT

piano said:


> Your new frame looks great. Good luck with your build, and enjoy the ride! You'll have to keep providing updates. :thumbsup:
> 
> I've been looking rims identical to those that you've picked up, but I'm a little skeptical of their advertised weight (440g +/-15g for tubular, 480g +/-10g for clinchers). If there's ever a chance that you might weigh them out of curiosity, I'd really like to see what they honestly come in at.


Front rim 423g rear 426g....mine are tubular...


----------



## dexdes

Chocy, glad to hear you survived the crash in one piece - too bad the frame is toast but I suppose that's why we've opted to go with the $400 cheapo carbon (as opposed to a $5,000 Colnago frameset - breaking something like that would have caused you some heartburn...). Mine too feels solid and I have confidence it will perform until I have a similar incident - or worse (I have the bad habit of doing 45+ mph on many of the descents around here). Good luck with the new frame and I can't wait to hear your impressions of it.


----------



## pianopiano

PLAYONIT said:


> Front rim 423g rear 426g....mine are tubular...


You're awesome...thanks for that info. :thumbsup:


----------



## chocy

dexdes

No worries with your decents I did it with my frame every weekend. 45+ and I even hit some potholes going that that fast before. No issues whatsoever but do be careful riding!!


----------



## supras2kracer

Can someone help me? Is this a compact frame? I wanted a traditional road frame and I like the horizontal top tube better.










If not I guess I'll go for the kredo style frame which is still pretty cool looking.


----------



## Tim_D

Supras --

Look at post No. 599 on this thread for a comparison.


----------



## stoofa

*hasa*

brought mine in jan the only problem i had was clearance for the back wheel had to go down to 700cx20


----------



## shortynolegs

DIRT BOY said:


> Yes, Mainland China with SCOTT.


Is it possible to score a frame directly through the manufacturer if I go there in person?
Say, a Specialized copy from Taiwan. I'm sure an employee should be able to buy one if I slip him a couple Benjamin bills.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

shortynolegs said:


> Is it possible to score a frame directly through the manufacturer if I go there in person?
> Say, a Specialized copy from Taiwan. I'm sure an employee should be able to buy one if I slip him a couple Benjamin bills.


Getting a Specialized is harder than you might think...


----------



## Dr. Placebo

i like that hongfu frame as well. anyone know how their business works?


----------



## PLAYONIT

Dr. Placebo said:


> i like that hongfu frame as well. anyone know how their business works?


Go to their website pick out the frame and size and any extra's you like then e-mail Jenny for a quote and lead time. Once you agree on the price, paypal or Western union funds to them. My lead time was 25 days. They came in five days early and shipping took 5 days from China to my doorstep in New York.. they communicate great and the service was impeccable...

Here's a pic of mine

http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/


----------



## shortynolegs

HeluvaSkier said:


> Getting a Specialized is harder than you might think...


Why is that? In the alternative, I'll settle for a knock off Pinarello.


----------



## supras2kracer

I went with the Kredo style frame and am placing my order tomorrow morning (from hongfu). She said they were out of headsets. I know the frame specifies a 1 1/8" headset but is there a specific headset I need to buy or will any headset do? I'll probably pick up the stem, seat post clamp, and headset off of one of the ebay sellers but I don't want to get the wrong thing.

Thanks for any info!


----------



## PLAYONIT

supras2kracer said:


> I went with the Kredo style frame and am placing my order tomorrow morning (from hongfu). She said they were out of headsets. I know the frame specifies a 1 1/8" headset but is there a specific headset I need to buy or will any headset do? I'll probably pick up the stem, seat post clamp, and headset off of one of the ebay sellers but I don't want to get the wrong thing.
> 
> Thanks for any info!


What frame did you order??


----------



## HeluvaSkier

shortynolegs said:


> Why is that? In the alternative, I'll settle for a knock off Pinarello.


A few years ago some Specialized frames were being made by Topkey (Roubaix, pre-funny-shaped seat stays; and Tarmac of that era), and they were VERY easy to get straight from the factory if you knew someone. I believe they either changed production facilities (to tighten up control) or tightened up control at Topkey, but if you try to get one of them, the answer is nearly always "absolutely not". I'm sure a few sneak through here and there - but it isn't as easy as other brands might be. The KTM I ride came straight from Topkey through someone who works at the factory.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

supras2kracer said:


> I went with the Kredo style frame and am placing my order tomorrow morning (from hongfu). She said they were out of headsets. I know the frame specifies a 1 1/8" headset but is there a specific headset I need to buy or will any headset do? I'll probably pick up the stem, seat post clamp, and headset off of one of the ebay sellers but I don't want to get the wrong thing.
> 
> Thanks for any info!


Campy style. 45/45


----------



## supras2kracer

PLAYONIT said:


> What frame did you order??


pseudo kredo from hongfu


----------



## supras2kracer

HeluvaSkier said:


> Campy style. 45/45


What does 45X45 refer to exactly? I found this one...http://cgi.ebay.com/New-OEM-Carbon-Internal-Headset-For-Bike-Bicycle-110g_W0QQitemZ360197576503QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item53dd72d737

It looks like the right numbers but what do they mean?

Thanks!


----------



## grole

Is "Internal" and "Integrated" the same?? or is "Internal" and "Semi-Integrated" the same??
Or what is "internal headset"??


----------



## Italianrider76

supras2kracer said:


> What does 45X45 refer to exactly? I found this one...http://cgi.ebay.com/New-OEM-Carbon-Internal-Headset-For-Bike-Bicycle-110g_W0QQitemZ360197576503QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item53dd72d737
> 
> It looks like the right numbers but what do they mean?
> 
> Thanks!


That's the correct headset for your frame. 45 X 45 means that the top circumference of both bearings tapers off at a 45 degree angle. Notice how when you look at the bearing from side on the bearing isn't just straight up and down? It tapers off to 45 degrees when it starts to the half way mark. The headset cups on your frame are shaped so the bearings fit nice and snug.


----------



## supras2kracer

Semi-integrated means that the headset uses ball bearings and cups. I think internal is the same as integrated (probably just a language barrier).


----------



## grole

googled around and did find this:

""*The Internal Headset*

On an internal headset, there are still cups, but the cups sit inside the headtube.

The main benefit of an internal headset is that the bike looks "sleeker" than a bike with a conventional headset. But I think regular headsets look just fine.

*The Integrated Headset*

With an integrated headset, there are no cups. Instead, the inside of the headtube is machined to provide a surface for the ball bearings.

There is a convenience factor because there are no cups to press into the frame.

It also provides a sleeker look and saves a miniscule amount of weight because there are no cups. (Although that's more of a sales pitch, because it doesn't take into account the reinforced headtube which actually yields a heavier setup!)

However, if the built-in "cups" need replaced, that means you need a new frame! (Instead of a new $20 headset.)""


----------



## grole

The specs on ebay says "Headset size 1 1/8* internal*"


----------



## newmexrb1

Man this thread is making me lust for one of these frames. The one concern which likely isn't warranted is about the model depicted in post 659--(the FM-015 on the Hong Fu website): the seat stays seem awfully fragile looking compared to many of the other CF models. I'm 210# and wonder if I shouldn't be looking for a beefier back end to support my fat arse...??


----------



## PLAYONIT

newmexrb1 said:


> Man this thread is making me lust for one of these frames. The one concern which likely isn't warranted is about the model depicted in post 659--(the FM-015 on the Hong Fu website): the seat stays seem awfully fragile looking compared to many of the other CF models. I'm 210# and wonder if I shouldn't be looking for a beefier back end to support my fat arse...??


The seat stays are actually pretty stout.. They are elliptical which should supply some good lateral strength. Also, I believe the crank area will prove to be the stiffest of all the frames from HF and also the tapered head tube with the 1.5" lower bearing area will add to overall stiffness and should have a nice positive road feel to it... I am 200lbs. right now but should be about 165-170 by the time the snow melts and I am ready to ride.. I like my frame and can't wait to ride it.... And you cant beat the price....


----------



## newmexrb1

Thanks for a helpful and reassuring post....I may just have run out of excuses not to spring for one of these.  

My buddy and his wife are also up for it--so may be able to get an additional discount. Waiting to hear back from Jenny. 

Anyone have an opinion on the new integrated BB's. 2 month lead time is required, but this is a winter build, so matters not. Just trying to figure if the BB30 is the straight shot to crank heaven or just one of many passing fancies.


----------



## bobski

PLAYONIT, I'm curious about the top tube specs of the Hong Fu frame. Based on the frame you received, can you tell if that's actual or virtual TT measurement?


----------



## grole

Headset problem solved  It was a integrated headset 41.8mm diam.

Going for a ride tomorrow.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

newmexrb1 said:


> Anyone have an opinion on the new integrated BB's. 2 month lead time is required, but this is a winter build, so matters not. Just trying to figure if the BB30 is the straight shot to crank heaven or just one of many passing fancies.


I went for the BB30 BB shell. I figured that the size and apparent stiffness of the BB on the 015-SPL would be the best way to take advantage of the stiffness of a BB30 crank (after all, a lot of the BB30 cranks out right now are actually stiffer than the frames they are mounted on). I don't think BB30 is the end-all for crank design, but its the best available right now...


----------



## newmexrb1

Heluvaskier,

Which crank are you going with?


----------



## HeluvaSkier

newmexrb1 said:


> Heluvaskier,
> 
> Which crank are you going with?


2010 SRAM Force group.


----------



## supras2kracer

can anyone confirm that this is Jenny's paypal account email? [email protected]

Paypal doesn't allow you to pay her with a credit card, probably so they can avoid dealing with the credit card company if you get screwed. I hate paypal so much. They're only looking out for themselves.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

supras2kracer said:


> can anyone confirm that this is Jenny's paypal account email? [email protected]
> 
> Paypal doesn't allow you to pay her with a credit card, probably so they can avoid dealing with the credit card company if you get screwed. I hate paypal so much. They're only looking out for themselves.


Yeah, I used it. I don't have my frame, but I've seen and held PLAYONIT's frame (lives just down the road). She is legit. FWIW, I used my VISA plat to pay her...


----------



## supras2kracer

that's weird, it said I can't use a credit card. Oh well, thanks for letting me know


----------



## wsrobert

*My Fiances China Wonder*

Just finished building tonight...havent got a chance to take it out yet but figured I'd post anyways. I'm not sure why she wanted yellow tape so don't ask...ha! It turned out really well though I think.

Once again...I highly recommend working with Jenny at Hong Fu.


----------



## PLAYONIT

supras2kracer said:


> can anyone confirm that this is Jenny's paypal account email? [email protected]
> 
> Paypal doesn't allow you to pay her with a credit card, probably so they can avoid dealing with the credit card company if you get screwed. I hate paypal so much. They're only looking out for themselves.[/QUOte
> 
> Yeah... Hong-fu is easy to deal with... my paypal payment was sent to this e-mail address [email protected]


----------



## PLAYONIT

wsrobert said:


> Just finished building tonight...havent got a chance to take it out yet but figured I'd post anyways. I'm not sure why she wanted yellow tape so don't ask...ha! It turned out really well though I think.
> 
> Once again...I highly recommend working with Jenny at Hong Fu.



Nice....looks great.... where did you get your barrel adjusters??


----------



## wsrobert

Those damn things were the hardest things to find! Thankfully, there's like 8 LBSs in the immediate area (I visited 3 to find these) and the last one I went to pulled them out of the bottom of a drawer for me. Apparently they typically ship on the frame...good luck!


----------



## newmexrb1

HeluvaSkier said:


> 2010 SRAM Force group.


Nice... Beer budget here--likely the same crank, but otherwise mostly Rival and brakes from Cane Creek.


----------



## Tim_D

wsrobert --

What bars have you got on there?

I'm looking for a nice pair of alloy (pref. carbon-wrap) shallow-drops for the new build...


----------



## HeluvaSkier

newmexrb1 said:


> Nice... Beer budget here--likely the same crank, but otherwise mostly Rival and brakes from Cane Creek.


The only thing budget about my build will be the frame. It will be the 2010 Force BB30 group, Red cassettes, Reynolds Assault wheels, FSA K-wing bars, FSA OS-99 stem (I think), Keo2 pedals, Pro3 Race tires, carbon cages (from eBay), and a Selle Italia SLR Carbonio Flow. The weight should be about 15lbs I think.


----------



## wsrobert

Tim_D said:


> wsrobert --
> 
> What bars have you got on there?
> 
> I'm looking for a nice pair of alloy (pref. carbon-wrap) shallow-drops for the new build...


They're the FSA Omega Compacts. $40. They have a really shallow drop and will work perfect for her smaller hands or anyone whos just looking for a tight drop.


----------



## chachas

*Barrel adjusters for playonit*



PLAYONIT said:


> Nice....looks great.... where did you get your barrel adjusters??


Playonit... I am in the B-Flo area and just finished my build of the kredo klone last night. I found barrel adjusters at Berts on Transit Rd, but they said I got the last ones. Call around to the Berts, Toms Pro Bike, and Handlebars on Englewood. I am sure that one of these places have the adjusters you are looking for.


----------



## chocy

I got my frame today... 

It is VERY NICE. 
Even my wife thinks it is much better frame than my old one. 
It has much nicer weave finish than the psuedo Kredo frame (Psuedo Kredo frame has some discontinuinty of weaves at the top. This one doesn't 

THe frame feels much more solid pretty light. 1363g frame w ISP and stubby and fork is 405 uncut (this is a bit heavy but feels solid with 1.5 inch base) Headset is 122g which is pretty standard (the 1.5" base bearing is massive) 


Also my Sram force 2010 group should be coming today sans crank (back ordered and expected next week.)

I am debating what color of bar tape to use Cinelli Yellow or SRAM silver carbon weave?


I think the bike will look and ride awsome. 

Will post pictures later


----------



## HeluvaSkier

chachas said:


> Playonit... I am in the B-Flo area and just finished my build of the kredo klone last night. I found barrel adjusters at Berts on Transit Rd, but they said I got the last ones. Call around to the Berts, Toms Pro Bike, and Handlebars on Englewood. I am sure that one of these places have the adjusters you are looking for.


Handlebars has a ton of them.


----------



## Tim_D

wsrobert --

Thanks -- Just ordered a pair -- only €24!!!

chocy -- what size frame did you get for that weight?


----------



## newmexrb1

*Decisions. decisions...*

Does has anyone have any experience with this bad boy? Left a quote request for Jenny, like most of the others, available in 49 to 58.


----------



## asad137

You know, I'm cool with integrated headsets, but an integrated fork just seems like a bad idea 

Asad


----------



## chocy

Tim,

I got the 53cm size 
I am half way putting it together After cutting fork and seat tube it lost 60grams 
I looks like I will come just under 16lbs without pedals weight.

newmexrb1

That is the same frame as 015 SPL me and PLAYONIT has. 
the frame is super. I haven't ridden it yet but it is a very nice frame.


----------



## newmexrb1

Asad, LOL. The pic is funky, but a perfect training device for carving turns. 

Chocy: Are you sure--if you go here the top model looks like the 015 and the speedflash is below it. I cannot tell for sure: the BB area looks even taller and beefier on the speedflash, but I cannot tell for sure.


----------



## chocy

newmexrb1

the top one on your link is not 015 model it doesn't even have the tapered steerer. 
This is the one PLAYONIT and I have

http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Products.asp?Id=404


----------



## newmexrb1

Chocy, 

I trust you're right. The website leaves much to be desired, but the price is RIGHT! Just want to make sure I'm not missing something here as everyone seems to have different experiences depending on luck, and how much they ask for. I'm looking at an order for three frames, different sizes, and being the lead guy, want to make sure all ducks are in a row so no one is pissed. As inexpensive as the frames are, it is not a chump change experiment for any of the parties.


----------



## independentmind

Chocy: How does the interface bettween the ISP and the seat clamp feel (can i get some close up pics, if you don't mind?) I'm still debating wether to get the one without the ISP.
Did yours come with the barrel adjusters?

Are you guys using a torque wrench (be honest)


----------



## HeluvaSkier

independentmind said:


> Are you guys using a torque wrench (be honest)


I'll be using one when I build mine. FWIW.


----------



## newmexrb1

Likewise re torque wrench; couple close calls on e-bay, may end up just buying the needle style in a low and higher range--likely plenty accurate for these purposes and a helluva lot more accurate than guessing


----------



## chocy

The "Stubby" is actually quite nice. it comes in at 165g so it is not light but it isn't heavy eitehr. It is very snug to the seat post and it did scratch the clearcoat on the seatpost when I pulled it out from uncut seatpost. After I cut the seat post I wrapped the seatpost with very thin clear tape to keep the seatpost from scratching (I might get a FSA stubby type for cleaner asthetic reasons)and then I used carbon seat post "goo" to keep it from sliping around. It is secure and looks reasonably clean. One cavit I have is that the clamping bolts in the front of the seat post rubs on my shorts a little due to my FAT thigh. 

From my memory none of these frame come with the barrel adjusters I have been using same barrel adjusters from my old fuji bike.

I have a needle style torque wrench from ebay and it works well for BB and cassette and for small allen bolts I just do it by feel.


----------



## PLAYONIT

independentmind said:


> Chocy: How does the interface bettween the ISP and the seat clamp feel (can i get some close up pics, if you don't mind?) I'm still debating wether to get the one without the ISP.
> Did yours come with the barrel adjusters?
> 
> Are you guys using a torque wrench (be honest)



Here's a few of mine... on one of pic you will see my new Ritchey Stubby;


----------



## independentmind

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

I'm still not sure about the ISP idea. I have nightmares about 1-Cutting it too short, 2-Having it shatter while i ride (not very probable)

Looks like i'm picking up a torque wrench from ebay too :/

Chocy, any pics of the frame built up?


----------



## PLAYONIT

independentmind said:


> Thanks for the feedback everyone.
> 
> I'm still not sure about the ISP idea. I have nightmares about 1-Cutting it too short, 2-Having it shatter while i ride (not very probable)
> 
> Looks like i'm picking up a torque wrench from ebay too :/
> 
> Chocy, any pics of the frame built up?



What would the difference be ISP vs. Carbon seatpost shattering ? as far as cutting it Cut it long and then a little at a time until your comfortable.. That will be my plan of attack... plus your stubby will allow wiggle room for the final adjustment.. a torque wrench is essential...


----------



## independentmind

The shattering potential is unfounded paranoia on my part.

I had a friend many years ago who jumped (correnction: crashed) his mountain bike (trek y-33, this is in the 90's with early generation carbon) down a huge set of stairs and the frame survived, however his collar bone, arm and a rib shattered. He still rides that frame to this day. So obviously carbon can take alot more abuse than we give it credit for.

I'm checking out the park TW-1 on ebay. Good enough?

http://cgi.ebay.com/PARK-TOOL-TW-1-TORQUE-WRENCH-1-4-INCH-DRIVE-FOR-BIKES_W0QQitemZ260487309702QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item3ca640e986


----------



## newmexrb1

PLAYONIT said:


> What would the difference be ISP vs. Carbon seatpost shattering ? as far as cutting it Cut it long and then a little at a time until your comfortable.. That will be my plan of attack... plus your stubby will allow wiggle room for the final adjustment.. a torque wrench is essential...



Replacing the frame.  I'm debating the same as we speak, and have quote requests for both the ISP and non versions. No one liked the stock stubbies I trust--one provided 40 mm of adjustment which might be a selling point if one ever had to sell the frame. How much wiggle room on the Ritchie would you guess, Playonit?

BTW--thanks a plenty to all those who have posted on this thread and particularly, heluvaskiier and Playonit for detailing their experiences. It gave me just enough courage to go through with it.


----------



## newmexrb1

independentmind said:


> The shattering potential is unfounded paranoia on my part.
> 
> I had a friend many years ago who jumped (correnction: crashed) his mountain bike (trek y-33, this is in the 90's with early generation carbon) down a huge set of stairs and the frame survived, however his collar bone, arm and a rib shattered. He still rides that frame to this day. So obviously carbon can take alot more abuse than we give it credit for.
> 
> I'm checking out the park TW-1 on ebay. Good enough?
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/PARK-TOOL-TW-1-TORQUE-WRENCH-1-4-INCH-DRIVE-FOR-BIKES_W0QQitemZ260487309702QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item3ca640e986


Please tell me he wasn't riding down the stairs.  Re the Park Tool, there is nothing to go wrong with it. Like all the needles, accuracy is 4% and unless you plan on having other styles calibrated, about as good as you're gonna get or need IMHO. I see some needles on E-bay that are selling for much less than the Park. If one is really doubting the accuracy. they can hang weights on it. Within the elastic limits of the tool, it should behave in a linear way, so again little to go wrong or mistrust. The biggest complaint with this style vs the breakaways is that you need to see the needle obviously. If that isn't possible, someone on Amazon recommended a tape wrap at the target which would be felt. Clever and simple idea.


----------



## independentmind

newmexrb1 said:


> Please tell me he wasn't riding down the stairs.  Re the Park Tool, there is nothing to go wrong with it. Like all the needles, accuracy is 4% and unless you plan on having other styles calibrated, about as good as you're gonna get or need IMHO. I see some needles on E-bay that are selling for much less than the Park. If one is really doubting the accuracy. they can hang weights on it. Within the elastic limits of the tool, it should behave in a linear way, so again little to go wrong or mistrust. The biggest complaint with this style vs the breakaways is that you need to see the needle obviously. If that isn't possible, someone on Amazon recommended a tape wrap at the target which would be felt. Clever and simple idea.



Actually...he was jumping 2 big sets of stairs by a local stadium (did i mention he tumbled down the next set?). I wasn't there, but i did call him a f***in idiot when i saw him at the hospital. :mad2: :mad2: 
The other needles i saw on ebay don't measure in inch pounds and Newton meters (i understand this is what we need, however i would imagine i could just convert the units? Anyone care to chime in?) 
Also most torque to a huge amount (built for engines i guess?.) I'll keep looking though, canadiantire.ca had a couple listed (craftsman i think, but probaly not suited for my kit)


----------



## newmexrb1

independentmind said:


> ...
> Also most torque to a huge amount (built for engines i guess?.) I'll keep looking though, canadiantire.ca had a couple listed (craftsman i think, but probaly not suited for my kit)


Right. Most of the light duty work is less than 100 in-lbs, or about 8 ft-lbs, while some of these big wrenches are equipped to measure several hundred foot pounds. BTW, on the needles, do not use at less than 20% full scale capacity if you value accuracy.


----------



## chocy

I have the cheap one that only has Kg.m which is 1/10 of Nm. So there isn't even that much conversion factor. Pics coming soon


----------



## PLAYONIT

newmexrb1 said:


> Replacing the frame.  I'm debating the same as we speak, and have quote requests for both the ISP and non versions. No one liked the stock stubbies I trust--one provided 40 mm of adjustment which might be a selling point if one ever had to sell the frame. How much wiggle room on the Ritchie would you guess, Playonit?
> 
> BTW--thanks a plenty to all those who have posted on this thread and particularly, heluvaskiier and Playonit for detailing their experiences. It gave me just enough courage to go through with it.



I found the stock stubby quite satisfactory... My problem and why I bought the ritchey is because of my elliptical saddle rails..If you look close at the image where my saddle is attached you will see the clamps don't clamp over the top of the rail.. The stock stubby will work great with saddles with round rails... I figure the stubby will have 20-25mm on adjustment..


----------



## HeluvaSkier

PLAYONIT said:


> I found the stock stubby quite satisfactory... My problem and why I bought the ritchey is because of my elliptical saddle rails..If you look close at the image where my saddle is attached you will see the clamps don't clamp over the top of the rail.. The stock stubby will work great with saddles with round rails... I figure the stubby will have 20-25mm on adjustment..


My SLR Carbonio doesn't have the elliptical rails... I just took a look at it and I might be able to use the stock stubby post clamp. That will be a nice treat.


----------



## PLAYONIT

Here is a cheap wrench I own that works well.. $70 bucks

http://grizzly.com/products/3-8-Industrial-100-lb-Torque-Wrench/H8000


----------



## Mel Erickson

Clicker torque wrenches are ok. I have both clicker and beam wrenches. I find myself going with the beam wrench most of the time. Clickers need maintenance to insure they are within specs. They don't like to be dropped or handled roughly. You can't easily tell if they're on spec or not. Beams on the other hand are much simpler and you can see if they're out of spec and can easily reset them. Plus, beams are a lot cheaper.


----------



## chocy

OK I took some picture of my build. It is almost there it is missing the bar tape (still pondering what color to go with) and waiting for my 2010 force crank so I just slaped on my old Force crank. 

Here is the final spec

Frame Hong-Fu- 015ISP frame 53cm 12k weave
Fork Hong Fu- carbon fork with 1-1/8 -> 1-1/2" tapered steerer 
Shifter 2010 SRAM force
Crankset 2010 SRAM force -> older force on these pictures.
FD 2010 SRAM force 34.9mm clamp on
RD 2010 SRAM force 
Brakes 2010 SRAM force
Chain Shimano 7900 Dura-Ace with KMC 10S quick link
Cassette Shimano 105 5600 11 - 25 
Handle Bar ebay carbon handle bar from 88bikefun A1 type
Stem Ritchey WCS 110mm decals removed (they were flaking off so I removed it with nail polish remover)
Saddle Selle Italia SLK
Wheels Neuvation R28 4 
Pedals Shimano 105 




The bike came in at 15.6 lbs without the pedals.

It looks SWEEET. the lines are slick and clean, ISP really helps to make it look clean in my opinion. BB is much more massive when compared to the psuedo Kredo frame. I haven't really had a chance to ride it yet but It already feels much more solid just straddling the bike.


----------



## PLAYONIT

chocy said:


> OK I took some picture of my build. It is almost there it is missing the bar tape (still pondering what color to go with) and waiting for my 2010 force crank so I just slaped on my old Force crank.
> 
> Here is the final spec
> 
> Frame Hong-Fu- 015ISP frame 53cm 12k weave
> Fork Hong Fu- carbon fork with 1-1/8 -> 1-1/2" tapered steerer
> Shifter 2010 SRAM force
> Crankset 2010 SRAM force -> older force on these pictures.
> FD 2010 SRAM force 34.9mm clamp on
> RD 2010 SRAM force
> Brakes 2010 SRAM force
> Chain Shimano 7900 Ultegra with KMC 10S quick link
> Cassette Shimano 105 5600 11 - 25
> Handle Bar ebay carbon handle bar from 88bikefun A1 type
> Stem Ritchey WCS 110mm decals removed (they were flaking off so I removed it with nail polish remover)
> Saddle Selle Italia SLK
> Wheels Neuvation R28 4
> Pedals Shimano 105
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The bike came in at 15.6 lbs without the pedals.
> 
> It looks SWEEET. the lines are slick and clean, ISP really helps to make it look clean in my opinion. BB is much more massive when compared to the psuedo Kredo frame. I haven't really had a chance to ride it yet but It already feels much more solid just straddling the bike.



FREAKING AWESOME......... can't wait to finish mine.... I have been anxious to see the frame built up with wheels.....well done


----------



## supras2kracer

That looks great chocy, very clean!

How many days did it take for shipping? Mine was shipped out on the 17th, I'm anxiously waiting for it to get here (AZ)


----------



## angryjohnny

Well, there goes my jaw. She looks really clean, there's something about the rear triangle that i really like

I knew the lines were clean on that frame, but damn does it look great put together.
Thank you for the post Chocy.

PS: Those are the exact same wheels i'm considering, $50 bucks shipping to Canada isn't so bad considering the price.


----------



## athletic91

hi chocy,

what size is your frame?

is toe overlap bad given the short wheelbase?

is the fork steerer tapered, will it work with a normal fork?


----------



## natethomas2000

Looks good - no bar tape?


----------



## chocy

PLAYONIT:

Hey what is holding you up? I really want to see them 50mm rims on these babies. I want to get them aero wheels next year.

angryjohnny;

Yeah the lines are very clean. Believe it or not the bike looks better in person than in pictures. Pictures have some funny perspectitle distorsions in general. As for the wheels. I higly recommend Neuvation wheels. I have these wheels for about 5000 miles now and they are still going strong. It even survived that crash that trashed my psuedo Kredo Frame. I recently repacked the bearing and freewheel with Phil's Grease and now it rolls even bettern than new and it rolled awsome before.

supas2kracer:

It look 5 business days but I think it was delayed a day due to columbus day holiday. I am in NYC city so once it is out of custom it is delivered the same day. I would think You shouldn't have to wait too much longer than me though.

athletic91:

My frame size is 53cm. I am 5'9" 
I have not rode it yet to tell you how bad the overlap is. But My old 50cm Kredo had an overlap and it did not bother me too much. (it did bother me some times you learn to live with it). The fork steerer IS tapered from 1-1/8" to 1/-1/2" It is massive at the bottom. and no you will not beable to use regular fork. however the fork from Hong-Fu is excellent. It feels very solid and it has tear drop profile for efficient aero. All in all it is an excellent set up.

natethomas2000:

No bar tape yet. Call me crazy but I have not decided on what color to go with.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

chocy said:


> No bar tape yet. Call me crazy but I have not decided on what color to go with.


Black. Match your saddle.


----------



## chocy

Well call me crazy but I like strong colors

so I was thinking silver carbon weave to match the components. or

Red, Yello, Orcha (Yellowish Orange) or Apple Green

Any votes?


----------



## HeluvaSkier

Pink. Like... Giro pink...:yesnod:


----------



## Don Duende

White and yellow


----------



## PCMarcelino

HeluvaSkier said:


> Black. Match your saddle.
> 
> 
> chocy said:
> 
> 
> 
> No bar tape yet. Call me crazy but I have not decided on what color to go with.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

But with Faux-Carbonweave black.​


----------



## HeluvaSkier

PCMarcelino said:


> Agreed.
> 
> But with Faux-Carbonweave black.​


Deda :thumbsup:


----------



## independentmind

*Hot !*

Chocy good job, the new sram cranks will look nice on there.

The lines really are nice. The head tube and the BB area look nice and beefy, the line that leads from the top tube to the seat stays is really nice and continuous. 

Very nice. I would say that color patterns on this frame would only ruin its lines. With that said i'm actually considering ordering it in solid white (eventhough i cry every time i do chain and headset maintenance on my current white bike, picture black crap everywhere.)

I'm about to pull the trigger on that same wheelset, but last time i checked he was sold out of the rear wheel. $50 shipping to Toronto, not bad.

May i suggest black tape with white stitching?

PS: This is nicer (and cheaper) than the NEO group buy and the other well known group buy happenin on the "other forum"


----------



## newmexrb1

Baby blue bar tape and decal set? Too fey? 

God would someone just ride one of these badboys, please!!!!!! :cryin: I'm going BB30 and looking at 60days lead. 

Things I'm still concerned about: lateral stiffness seat stays, potential internal routing issues, too stiff/harsh  , general tendency to explode?


----------



## PLAYONIT

chocy said:


> PLAYONIT:
> 
> Hey what is holding you up? I really want to see them 50mm rims on these babies. I want to get them aero wheels next year.
> 
> angryjohnny;
> 
> Yeah the lines are very clean. Believe it or not the bike looks better in person than in pictures. Pictures have some funny perspectitle distorsions in general. As for the wheels. I higly recommend Neuvation wheels. I have these wheels for about 5000 miles now and they are still going strong. It even survived that crash that trashed my psuedo Kredo Frame. I recently repacked the bearing and freewheel with Phil's Grease and now it rolls even bettern than new and it rolled awsome before.
> 
> supas2kracer:
> 
> It look 5 business days but I think it was delayed a day due to columbus day holiday. I am in NYC city so once it is out of custom it is delivered the same day. I would think You shouldn't have to wait too much longer than me though.
> 
> athletic91:
> 
> My frame size is 53cm. I am 5'9"
> I have not rode it yet to tell you how bad the overlap is. But My old 50cm Kredo had an overlap and it did not bother me too much. (it did bother me some times you learn to live with it). The fork steerer IS tapered from 1-1/8" to 1/-1/2" It is massive at the bottom. and no you will not beable to use regular fork. however the fork from Hong-Fu is excellent. It feels very solid and it has tear drop profile for efficient aero. All in all it is an excellent set up.
> 
> natethomas2000:
> 
> No bar tape yet. Call me crazy but I have not decided on what color to go with.


I won't get mine together until spring.. I am scheduled for hip replacement surgery in December... so I have a bit of time yet to source my parts looking for the best deals.. the wheels I am sending out in Nov to get built up with Alchemy hubs and c-xay spokes... your bike looks great.......


----------



## royd

PLAYONIT said:


> I won't get mine together until spring.. I am scheduled for hip replacement surgery in December... so I have a bit of time yet to source my parts looking for the best deals.. the wheels I am sending out in Nov to get built up with Alchemy hubs and c-xay spokes... your bike looks great.......


How much will it cost you to build up your rims with those hubs and spokes? I am thinking of picking up a pair of those rims from Jenny.


----------



## athletic91

playonit

do you feel the downtube is squoval like the cervelo r3?

much thanks as im about to pull the trigger myself too

ill ask for a curve fork like the scott cr1 fork


----------



## supras2kracer

did anyone else order the seat post from hong fu with the pseudo kredo frame? Mine doesn't really fit unless I wiggle it back and forth, it's all scratched up now.

Anybody find a fix to this problem?


----------



## chocy

Hey guys great ideas 

I don't think I am not quite that comfortable with my masculinity to go with pink. 
But I think I give Deda Chianti Red (Dark red) a try for the winter. It should be here by friday I think.

athletic 91, the down tube starts at head tube as trioval not squaval. It gets rounder at the top and it meets the BB as almost a squoval.

I am going out for a 60-70mile ride this weekend. so I will report. Since I broke my earlier frame riding in the dark after work she won't let me go during the weekday yet 


Supas2kacer. my old psuedo Kredo also had this problem as with a lot of other people. It is really snug but you can definitly get it in there with out damanging the frame or the seat post. But seatpost finish will be gone. It is normal.


----------



## PLAYONIT

royd said:


> How much will it cost you to build up your rims with those hubs and spokes? I am thinking of picking up a pair of those rims from Jenny.


$825..... that's because the hubs are pricey. You can get them built with other great hubs in the $500-600 range..... so add that to the $242 I paid for the rims from hongfu and I will be a little over$1000


----------



## PLAYONIT

athletic91 said:


> playonit
> 
> do you feel the downtube is squoval like the cervelo r3?
> 
> much thanks as im about to pull the trigger myself too
> 
> ill ask for a curve fork like the scott cr1 fork


Yes it has a flat bottom and oval top... I think the fork will be tough... the SPL-015 has a tapered head tube 1 1/8" at top and 1 1/2" on the bottom.. you might be able to source a tapered fork stateside... but doubt you will get anywhere with Hongfu with that request... the price of the frame includes the fork anyway so even if you can't find the fork you want you will have the one that comes with the frame..


----------



## newmexrb1

PLAYONIT said:


> Yes it has a flat bottom and oval top... I think the fork will be tough... the SPL-015 has a tapered head tube 1 1/8" at top and 1 1/2" on the bottom.. you might be able to source a tapered fork stateside... but doubt you will get anywhere with Hongfu with that request... the price of the frame includes the fork anyway so even if you can't find the fork you want you will have the one that comes with the frame..


In the FWIW dept, Cane Creek is now (or about to) selling mix and match bearing sets for the tapered head tubes. Makes me hope this will become less rare in bikes in the future. Besides the Cubes and Ridley Helium, not sure what other roadies are sporting these.


----------



## xtrimtri2002

Hi, 
I have been looking at the geometry of the frame on the hongfu website. Are the top tube lengths stated, virtual or actual?


----------



## PLAYONIT

newmexrb1 said:


> In the FWIW dept, Cane Creek is now (or about to) selling mix and match bearing sets for the tapered head tubes. Makes me hope this will become less rare in bikes in the future. Besides the Cubes and Ridley Helium, not sure what other roadies are sporting these.


More then you think.... most high end are there or headed that way..


----------



## newmexrb1

PLAYONIT said:


> More then you think.... most high end are there or headed that way..


You're right I forgot the Madone was also 1.5/1.125. I know there are several that use 1.25 on the bottom. I like the idea, just not sure of aftermarket fork choices at this point.


----------



## independentmind

newmexrb1 said:


> You're right I forgot the Madone was also 1.5/1.125. I know there are several that use 1.25 on the bottom. I like the idea, just not sure of aftermarket fork choices at this point.


Off topic kinda....But what's so great about having a headtube shaped like that?


----------



## PLAYONIT

independentmind said:


> Off topic kinda....But what's so great about having a headtube shaped like that?


It creates more stiffness and strength....and it looks cool to boot... almost seamless..


----------



## independentmind

Thanks


----------



## supras2kracer

Thanks Chocy, I did get it to fit like you said, the scratches aren't very noticeable but who really cares I just want to ride the thing!

Can anyone tell me if this headset would work?
http://www.amazon.com/FSA-Orbit-Integrated-Headset-Threadless/dp/B001C5HQN6/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1256182260&sr=8-8


----------



## Tim_D

athletic91 said:


> playonit
> 
> do you feel the downtube is squoval like the cervelo r3?
> 
> much thanks as im about to pull the trigger myself too
> 
> ill ask for a curve fork like the scott cr1 fork


Athletic -- here's an engineering drawing of the 58cm, showing all the profiles:

You may be out of luck on the curved fork -- the frame has a 1-1/2" fork crown race.

If you ask Jenny, she'll send you the drawings for all frame sizes.

Chocy -- Bike Porn...mmmmm....


----------



## mrbubbles

chocy said:


>


What's your bottom bracket to saddle top height?


----------



## chocy

Mrbubbles

my BB to saddle top is 28 inches I have 31.5inch inseam and 5'9" tall.

supras2kracer

That head set works as matter of fact I had that headset on my psuedo Kredo frame.


----------



## independentmind

*hong-fu website*

Is anyone else having issues connecting to the hong-fu website? I get redirected to what appears to be a government site. 

Edit: bablefish is your friend... 

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jxteleidc.com%2Fbeian.html&lp=zh_en&btnTrUrl=Translate

and

http://66.196.80.202/babelfish/translate_url_content?.intl=us&lp=zh_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.miibeian.gov.cn%2f


----------



## supras2kracer

weird, I just got this email:
Hello,

I am Mr. Vincent Cheng Hoi Chuen, GBS, JP Chairman of the Hong Kong and
Shanghai Banking Corporation Limited.; I have a sensitive, confidential brief
from Hong Kong and I am asking for your partnership in re- profiling funds.

What I require from you is your honest co-operation and I guarantee that this
will be executed under a legitimate arrangement that will protect you and I
from any breach of the law. Please accept my apologies, keep my confidence and
disregard this email if you do not appreciate this proposition I have offered
you.

All confirmable documents to back up this fund shall be made available to you,
as soon as I receive your reply via@yahoo.com.hk), I shall let you
know what is required of you.


----------



## philippec

supras2kracer said:


> weird, I just got this email:
> Hello,
> 
> I am Mr. Vincent Cheng Hoi Chuen, GBS, JP Chairman of the Hong Kong and
> Shanghai Banking Corporation Limited.; I have a sensitive, confidential brief
> from Hong Kong and I am asking for your partnership in re- profiling funds.
> 
> What I require from you is your honest co-operation and I guarantee that this
> will be executed under a legitimate arrangement that will protect you and I
> from any breach of the law. Please accept my apologies, keep my confidence and
> disregard this email if you do not appreciate this proposition I have offered
> you.
> 
> All confirmable documents to back up this fund shall be made available to you,
> as soon as I receive your reply via@yahoo.com.hk), I shall let you
> know what is required of you.


Oh, you have <i>GOT</i> to get in on some of that action!


----------



## independentmind

supras2kracer said:


> weird, I just got this email:
> Hello,
> 
> I am Mr. Vincent Cheng Hoi Chuen, GBS, JP Chairman of the Hong Kong and
> Shanghai Banking Corporation Limited.; I have a sensitive, confidential brief
> from Hong Kong and I am asking for your partnership in re- profiling funds.
> 
> What I require from you is your honest co-operation and I guarantee that this
> will be executed under a legitimate arrangement that will protect you and I
> from any breach of the law. Please accept my apologies, keep my confidence and
> disregard this email if you do not appreciate this proposition I have offered
> you.
> 
> All confirmable documents to back up this fund shall be made available to you,
> as soon as I receive your reply via@yahoo.com.hk), I shall let you
> know what is required of you.


:idea: 

LOL...I got one from Nigeria a couple days ago after i posted a Nikon camera kit for sale on kijiji. These are always scams, my guy wanted me to send him a request for payment via paypal, needless to say i literally told him to go f*ck a donkey. He would turn around and claim an overpayment. 
Advice: Ignore it, delete it, burn it, do not respond. It has nothing to do with Hasa or hong-fu


----------



## chachas

here's my new pseudo kredo build. this is my first road bike, and i am totally happy with it. it is a huge upgrade from my fuji absolute flatbar. the difference between aluminum and carbon is HUGE! i got the frame/fork/seatpost/seatpost clamp/headset from bicycle999 on ebay. i built the bike with sram rival from gvhbikes. the wheels are HED bastognes from my LBS (toms pro bike in lancaster ny). other parts are sourced from toms pro bike. i am going to shorten the stem height by about 5mm this weekend. it is just a little high for me. 

-charlie


----------



## Tim_D

independentmind said:


> Is anyone else having issues connecting to the hong-fu website? I get redirected to what appears to be a government site.
> 
> Edit: bablefish is your friend...
> 
> http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jxteleidc.com%2Fbeian.html&lp=zh_en&btnTrUrl=Translate
> 
> and
> 
> http://66.196.80.202/babelfish/translate_url_content?.intl=us&lp=zh_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.miibeian.gov.cn%2f


Well, even with the translation, I'm none the wiser.

I've e-mailed them, will have to see what happens. Anyone hear back from them?


----------



## newmexrb1

Sweet. Thinking abbout a rival group myself (vs mix and match e-bay deals). Can I ask about what you paid for Rival. I'll probably do it piece meal as I need a different crank.

Chocy, how is the weather? Hope you're able to ride today!


----------



## chachas

newmexrb1 said:


> Sweet. Thinking abbout a rival group myself (vs mix and match e-bay deals). Can I ask about what you paid for Rival. I'll probably do it piece meal as I need a different crank.


$704 shipped from gvhbikes.com. they have a pretty sweet "kit builder
on their website where you pick a group set and then can modify any of the parts. say you pick a rival group, but you want red cranks, not a problem, just pick it in the drop down menu, and the price will update.


----------



## newmexrb1

chachas said:


> $704 shipped from gvhbikes.com. they have a pretty sweet "kit builder
> on their website where you pick a group set and then can modify any of the parts. say you pick a rival group, but you want red cranks, not a problem, just pick it in the drop down menu, and the price will update.


Thanks--super helpful and surprisingly affordable!! Love the idea of putting $$ where it may make the greatest difference. Speaking of which--anyone here familiar with the SRAM groups who can suggest where rival to force is high bang for buck. please comment...


----------



## chocy

newmexrb1 

I just got the force group from GVH,
It is only $120 more for force over rival and in my book that is good value for an ungrade.
comes with carbon crankset and fancier graphics and lighter, I donno if there is any difference performance wise.

It is raining all day here in NYC but tomorrow will be nice. I took it out for a spin after work on Thursday so I have some idea of how it rides but I will reserve my opinion until a serious ride tommrow. Overall it is very nice so far.


----------



## Tim_D

I just received this e-mail from Jenny at Hong-Fu:

"Hi,Tim
thanks for your email!
this week our government loss the material which we use put on record.
please really don't worry,we will try our best to resolve our website
problem.in fact,we much urgent than to you.
don't worry ,you can send email to me anytime.
I'll reply your email within 2 workdays.
best regards!
Jenny"

Loks like the Chinese government has lost teh internets.


----------



## PLAYONIT

You have to love Jenny...... she kept me re-assured during my deal also...


----------



## independentmind

"Loks like the Chinese government has lost teh internets."










I think i have some extra ones in a box i can send over


----------



## newmexrb1

chocy said:


> newmexrb1
> 
> I just got the force group from GVH,
> It is only $120 more for force over rival and in my book that is good value for an ungrade.
> comes with carbon crankset and fancier graphics and lighter, I donno if there is any difference performance wise.
> 
> It is raining all day here in NYC but tomorrow will be nice. I took it out for a spin after work on Thursday so I have some idea of how it rides but I will reserve my opinion until a serious ride tommrow. Overall it is very nice so far.


Sounds like a plan--the Force group and your ride tomorrow. Looking forward to hearing about it, in the meantime hope we get to see some baseball tonight. After 8 days of being swined, weather is good and I can look at my ride w/o hurting. :thumbsup:


----------



## bizzybone485

Can anyone or does anyone have a complete parts list? I feel i have a list of all of them but i wanted to confirm because i am gonna be building this throughout the next couple months. Are people using carbon headsets and stems from these vendors. It seems safer to use aluminum at these points or cored aluminum at least. I'm new to building bikes and owned a trek 1000 a few months ago and have been hooked ever since. Just trying to find all the problems that i might run into before hand. Thanks everyone for sharing!!!


----------



## PLAYONIT

bizzybone485 said:


> Can anyone or does anyone have a complete parts list? I feel i have a list of all of them but i wanted to confirm because i am gonna be building this throughout the next couple months. Are people using carbon headsets and stems from these vendors. It seems safer to use aluminum at these points or cored aluminum at least. I'm new to building bikes and owned a trek 1000 a few months ago and have been hooked ever since. Just trying to find all the problems that i might run into before hand. Thanks everyone for sharing!!!


Can you be more specific? what frame are you getting? I am using a Ritchey WCS carbon stem and a headset I got with my order from Hongfu. I might replace it later but it seems fine now.. I will source the rest of my parts in the USA . I am building mine ( Hongfu SPL-015 integrated seat post) up with Sram Red components and 50mm carbon wheels.


----------



## newmexrb1

biz., 
May be a matter of the blind leading the blind, but have the same plan and am at the same stage. Like Playonit, I'm looking at the SPL-015 w/ ISP (BB30 but makes no diff re parts list). 

List I have:

frame and fork (sourced from Hong-Fu)
stem and headset
bars (looking at Hong Fu, unsure yet) and tape
saddle and seat clamp (or seat tube if you go non-integrated)
wheelset including skewers 
component group (the Rival Force sourced from GVH) including 
BB
Crankset
FD/RD
Rear cassette
Cables/housing--brakes and gears use different types
Brifters
Brake calipers
Chain

Water bottles
Pedal set
And lest I forget as Hong-Fu seems to, cable stops and misc hardware. 

Sure I left something out.

It may be just as worthwhile to consider the tools needed to put this together unless the LBS will be doing it. At the very least you will need two torque wrenches, and specialized stuff for the crank, headset, and cable/housing cutters. Also need to cut the carbon tubes--several companies make clamp on saw guides. 

This list is incomplete and I haven't completely researched as I'm still deciding what is easy DIY vs DIY/proceed with caution, vs best left for LBS. I started a thread on the Beginners corner past week if interested.


----------



## Zuckerkorn

newmexrb1 said:


> biz.,
> May be a matter of the blind leading the blind, but have the same plan and am at the same stage.


I was thinking same setup as yours or used Shimano DA 7800 components off ebay.
Are you going with Force shifters or it's worth upgrading to Red?
How about everything Rival? Is it comparable to Ultegra?

Also, that integrated seatpost on SPL-015 scares the **** out of me.


----------



## chocy

newmexrb1. Force shifters come with cable and housing and everything else you need so get your shifter and deraileur setup


----------



## newmexrb1

Chocy,

You're right of course. Detail provided in case the poster wanted to consider e-baying it piecemeal. I've been upgrading my steelie that way, and have learned a lot about what I don't know, never thought about. Like used RD's, brakes, etc don't come with cable, and the type of housing for the two is even different.:blush2:


----------



## newmexrb1

Zuckerkorn said:


> I was thinking same setup as yours or used Shimano DA 7800 components off ebay.
> Are you going with Force shifters or it's worth upgrading to Red?
> How about everything Rival? Is it comparable to Ultegra?
> 
> Also, that integrated seatpost on SPL-015 scares the **** out of me.


Re the ISP, me too? Is it irrational fear? I dunno--I have seen some plenty stout CF tubing shred--but that was at Mach 4 and from a distance--as in amateur rocket--where the skin friction takes temps near or past the TG of the epoxy. On a more serious note, that ISP breaks, say by just being careless--looks like a new frame--ouch. I would only be parroting what I have read from others with first hand experience. I have tried double tap system and loved it--so SRAM it is. Besides the iconoclast in me loves NOT buying Shimano. I may still mix/match--but the RD, Brifters will be SRAM as they are incompatible with all else. Likely best to use SRAM chain and FD while at it, but after seeing the group prices, do I really need the torture of countless ebay auctions to save maybe 100 bucks? FWIW, the Force components seem to get a 1/3 to even as much as 1/2 more than the Rival pieces when sold separately on ebay--so upgrading the group from Rival to Force for less than 200 makes sense. This isn't to say that this reflectss value or performance--my gut tells me roadies would rather be caught w/o underwear than have the entry level stuff on their bike.  

As to Red, if I go BB30, the issue is settled for now unless I want an FSA Gossamer Crank. But that is where the bleeding stops. YMMV as well as your income. 

Welcome truly informed responses....


----------



## Zuckerkorn

ok lets see,
CF Frame (China) - $400
CF 50mm clincher rims $300 (China), hubs $60 (Taiwan), spokes+build $130
Sram Force Groupset with Red Crankset $939.00

That's almost $1900 right there without seatpost, saddle, fork and handlebars.

Ouch.


----------



## newmexrb1

Zuckerkorn said:


> ok lets see,
> CF Frame (China) - $400
> 50mm clincher rims $300 (China), hubs $60 (Taiwan), spokes+build $130
> Sram Force Groupset with Red Crankset $939.00
> 
> That's almost $1900 right there without seatpost, saddle, fork and handlebars.
> 
> Ouch.


Zuckerhorn,
Let me help you with the art of rationalization. That same bike could easily cost you what 5K at your LBS with a seizure inducing paint job included.


----------



## PLAYONIT

newmexrb1 said:


> Re the ISP, me too? Is it irrational fear? I dunno--I have seen some plenty stout CF tubing shred--but that was at Mach 4 and from a distance--as in amateur rocket--where the skin friction takes temps near or past the TG of the epoxy. On a more serious note, that ISP breaks, say by just being careless--looks like a new frame--ouch. I would only be parroting what I have read from others with first hand experience. I have tried double tap system and loved it--so SRAM it is. Besides the iconoclast in me loves NOT buying Shimano. I may still mix/match--but the RD, Brifters will be SRAM as they are incompatible with all else. Likely best to use SRAM chain and FD while at it, but after seeing the group prices, do I really need the torture of countless ebay auctions to save maybe 100 bucks? FWIW, the Force components seem to get a 1/3 to even as much as 1/2 more than the Rival pieces when sold separately on ebay--so upgrading the group from Rival to Force for less than 200 makes sense. This isn't to say that this reflectss value or performance--my gut tells me roadies would rather be caught w/o underwear than have the entry level stuff on their bike.
> 
> As to Red, if I go BB30, the issue is settled for now unless I want an FSA Gossamer Crank. But that is where the bleeding stops. YMMV as well as your income.
> 
> Welcome truly informed responses....



I don't know ? I wouldn't worry about the ISP.. mine looks pretty stout it's 38.4mm which is pretty big.. I am 170 at riding weight.. I keep hearing the worry's but what is the difference ISP vs. standard seat post with regards to breakage???


----------



## chocy

yep idea 2K bike at bike shop is trek 2.1 with barely 105 groupset with chunky wheels weighting good bit above 20 lbs

we are talking 15lbs bike here people!!

trust me 2k is a steal for a frame and groupset you are getting.


----------



## newmexrb1

PLAYONIT said:


> I don't know ? I wouldn't worry about the ISP.. mine looks pretty stout it's 38.4mm which is pretty big.. I am 170 at riding weight.. I keep hearing the worry's but what is the difference ISP vs. standard seat post with regards to breakage???


Just that with the ISP, your repair is a whole lot different. I have vacuum bagging equipment and high grade epoxy and CF and could make a splint--but a helluva lot of work vs than buying a replacement. I know CF--its brittle and doesn't like impact, especially at the wrong angle.Thats what makes me nervous as my bike is my main transportation and not something that goes from car rack to car rack.


----------



## Zuckerkorn

newmexrb1 said:


> Zuckerhorn,
> Let me help you with the art of rationalization. That same bike could easily cost you what 5K at your LBS with a seizure inducing paint job included.


Yeah man, I understand that, but same time I can take 2k and get this or any other big brand bike used in good condition. Decisions...


----------



## supras2kracer

what size clamp do we need for the braze on? I thought it was 31.8 but was wrong, now i can't ride till I find an adaptor


----------



## chachas

supras2kracer said:


> what size clamp do we need for the braze on? I thought it was 31.8 but was wrong, now i can't ride till I find an adaptor


i believe it is a 34.9 that you need. that is what i have on my pseudo kredo.


----------



## athletic91

Zuckerkorn said:


> ok lets see,
> CF Frame (China) - $400
> CF 50mm clincher rims $300 (China), hubs $60 (Taiwan), spokes+build $130
> Sram Force Groupset with Red Crankset $939.00
> 
> That's almost $1900 right there without seatpost, saddle, fork and handlebars.
> 
> Ouch.


care to share the where to get $60 hubs


----------



## Zuckerkorn

athletic91 said:


> care to share the where to get $60 hubs


http://www.power-way.com.tw/hub.htm
I might get PHB-R10 and PFH-R10, without stupid logos.

also I can PM you an email of Hong Fu type distributor who works with powerway, but i haven't ordered anything from them yet, so it's uncharted territory. They also sell rims cheaper than Hong Fu.


----------



## Rob81

that ISP frame is very nice, I try to sell my Roubaix frame and buy this one.
Anyone can approx. the distance from the end of the vertical tube and the saddle rails point with the seat clamp supplied? 2-2,5 cm (~1 inch) maybe? Is this clamp higher than the Ritchey?
I ask so to get the right size and have as maxiumum lenght as possible or even no need to cut the tube and/or "play" with different saddles mount (=different height).

Edit: sorry for my English, I'm asking the distance between the 2 red lines, assuming the lower one corresponds to the end of the tube


----------



## newmexrb1

Zuckerkorn said:


> Yeah man, I understand that, but same time I can take 2k and get this or any other big brand bike used in good condition. Decisions...


I hear you. For me it's a no brainer as I will buy group, wheels, and frame separately over the next few months so as to feel minimimal financial pain. Then there is the branded/warrantied path discussed on similar thread which adds to expense of frame but maybe less stress/worry/hassle factor.


----------



## Zuckerkorn

newmexrb1 said:


> I hear you. For me it's a no brainer as I will buy group, wheels, and frame separately over the next few months so as to feel minimimal financial pain. Then there is the branded/warrantied path discussed on similar thread which adds to expense of frame but maybe less stress/worry/hassle factor.


I think to save money i'm just going to re-use my drivetrain from Caad3 I currently ride.

Ultegra shifters
DA crankset
600 RD,105 FD, 105 Brakes. Which i will probably replace with Ultegra or DA components from ebay.
Should be fine right?


----------



## PLAYONIT

Rob81 said:


> that ISP frame is very nice, I try to sell my Roubaix frame and buy this one.
> Anyone can approx. the distance from the end of the vertical tube and the saddle rails point with the seat clamp supplied? 2-2,5 cm (~1 inch) maybe? Is this clamp higher than the Ritchey?
> I ask so to get the right size and have as maxiumum lenght as possible or even no need to cut the tube and/or "play" with different saddles mount (=different height).
> 
> Edit: sorry for my English, I'm asking the distance between the 2 red lines, assuming the lower one corresponds to the end of the tube



Measures 58mm between the lines....


----------



## newmexrb1

Absolutely fine--so long as you don't "need" most recent series--DA 7800 vs 7900, ultegra 6500/6600 vs 6700--deals abound. Picked up set of unused 6600 ultegra derailers for a total of 55.00 In a way, it seems more in spirit of the project though i certainly can see (and envy) why heluvaskier and some of the others who are getting decked in Red. Best price for SRAM Force brifters is 200-ish. Rival not much less.:cryin:


----------



## athletic91

Zuckerkorn said:


> http://www.power-way.com.tw/hub.htm
> I might get PHB-R10 and PFH-R10, without stupid logos.
> 
> also I can PM you an email of Hong Fu type distributor who works with powerway, but i haven't ordered anything from them yet, so it's uncharted territory. They also sell rims cheaper than Hong Fu.


visited website, no options to purchase online..

would be good if you could provide a purchasing link too


----------



## chocy

*Ride report*

OK guys Here is the ride report that I promised.

About my self.

I am 5'9" with 31.5 inseam
I used to weight 180lbs but I gained another 5lbs since my crash two weeks ago.

I went out to the NJ side but today my wife decided to join me so the ride was shortened and much less intense, however I got some solo time while she was resting. We went to Palisade park and the foliage was fantastic. however they kept the road semi wet and full of leaves. While visually fantastic (my wife loved it) it was not the the best place for pushing the bike to its limits. 

So I would consider this report as more of an initial impression.

That being said, Palisade park is full of rolling hills with a 1 mile ave7-8 % climb at the end and a pretty fast decent on the way back with plenty of pot holes. 


Ok now, about the bike .

I will be comparing this mainly with my puedo Kredo bike since I felt that bike was better than my Fuji Carbon frame to start with.

This new Hong Fu bike setup is decently light my bike being 15.75 lbs without pedals. 
The first impression of the bike is that gemetry is feels pretty tall for the wheelbase. (I think because Kredo frame is more of a compact frame whereas Hong Fu is Not. Visually the Frame has clean lines. ISP is also not as bad as I thoguht (but I do not recommend ISP if it is your first bike. Once you know what works for you, you just cut it to right legth from the get go) 

So for the ride

Bottom line: 

Hong Fu 015SPL is a fantastic ride.


Frame feels solid and I do not have any concern of any part having a sudden explosion that people are so paranoid about with carbon frames. It dampens the road shock from the ground really well at the saddle whole stiff front trasmits enough road information for you to feel confident. In fact I feel that when sitting on the frame the saddle feels a bit more springy (to front and back not side ways) when compared to the psuedo Kredo frame. over all my but felt retty pampered through some pot holes on downhills and flats. 

The biggest improvement over the psuedo Kredo frame is definitly stiffer and more stable Bottom areas: Tapered steerer and headtube, massive down tube and thick (vertically) chain stay.

When climbing sitting down. It wants to go up up and up and I felt like I was dragging down the bike. (due to the fact I am out of shape) The frame in general feels very solid. The massive downtube and tapered steerer seem to provide that confident feeling. The BB does not have any noticable flex even when I meshed the cranks standing up going 15 mph on 8% grade (Probably nothing to brag to most of the people on this forum but trying to give some tangible parameters here) I did not have any complaint in this department with Kredo frame but I feel that psuedo Kredo frame did have some flex when compared to this one. 

Steering is very precise to suprising degree, I found the weekest link of Psuedo Kredo frame was the fork and Hong Fu's Tapered fork is fatastic. solid and stiff enough without being harsh. When coming back down that hill(two lane width but with no markings), I am usually able to hit about 35 MPH(only 35 because of the pot holes and other harzzards) even then it could get a little hairy with Psuedo Kredo bike when trying to avoid a bunch of potholes on the way down. I always felt that this problem had to do with the fork and that problem is no longer. Even when with this pot holely down hill covered with wet fall leaves, the bike gave me all the confidence to avoid rough spots. When I ran into some of the hidden ones. The bike felt solid and did not make me worry. I was quite suprise How razer sharp the steering can feel.

On the flats, again the bike felt fast and confident. The stiffer BB can be felt pretty much all the time while the road vibration was much less than psuedo Kredo(Kredo is by no means uncomfortable) Ultimately all these effects made me feel much more condifent as I glidede across fantastically colorful leaves. 

In conclusion, 015SPL is a great frame I would be quite suprised if that cube bike is not this bike or something much different because this one is that good. I always felt that Psuedo Kredo frame was well balanced meaing stiffness to confort balance was good but it was even everywehre. It was confortable enough, stiff enough but they had all similar sense of stiffness. So ride was confortable enough to damp most of the vibrating but not on big impacts pains can be felt. (This is not necessarily negative) 

In contast 015SPL is less balanced in this regard, The front and bottom is stiff (this doesn't mean frame feels heavy, it actaully feels very hollow(since it is) and airy while nothing on the bottom wants to move in any way other than the direction in which it was intended to move. Even going over bumps, bikes feels very confident. However the seat tube and stay provides a lot of "compliance" This makes the bike sort of feel like riding a surf board (this may not be accurate but I felt that way) 

Overall I am very happy with the bike I would race this bike with no reservation (in fact next year I intend to) and I also would not hesitate to take this bike on my century rides. 

I hope to hear from those who purchased this frame also.


----------



## newmexrb1

Thanks Chocy for the thoughtful review. I wish I had an intelligent question or two, but nothing much comes to mind as you covered all my concerns except cornering and maybe it was just too wet to really dive into some corners and see how it tracked. 

Again thanks for the post. I can hardly imagine what it will be like to go from 23# steelie to this in one fell swoop.


----------



## Zuckerkorn

Very nice chocy! Thank you!

What is your frame size?
I'm having trouble deciding what size to get, i'm 6' and weight 156lb. Currently riding 54 caad3 which is defenetely small for me.


----------



## newmexrb1

Chocy, Thinking about the surf board analogy, you have what a couple of fistfuls of seat tube above the TT? Does it feel as if this is making like a pendulum? I'm still debating ISP as you know, and now thinking some fine tuning might be achieved by the right seat post, but haven't a clue really, and hate to break the gorgeous flow of the frame.


----------



## athletic91

im looking at a sp015 frame. with a expected 30 lead time

jenny is requiring me to make a full payment to comence the order.

should i pull the trigger?

i getting a feeling relating to a ponzi scam, when they have collected enough deposits, they close down and set up a new company with a new name


----------



## newmexrb1

athletic91 said:


> im looking at a sp015 frame. with a expected 30 lead time
> 
> jenny is requiring me to make a full payment to comence the order.
> 
> should i pull the trigger?
> 
> i getting a feeling relating to a ponzi scam, when they have collected enough deposits, they close down and set up a new company with a new name


No they do that in the USA.  Here they actually make something and hope its value merits the price and make/sell enuf of a tangible product with good reviews that is enuf. Wishful thinking, but thats what I'm doing and I have twice the lead time for a BB30.


----------



## chocy

Zuckerkorn:

My frame is 53cm and I am 5'9" I would probabaly be able to ride 55 size but on a little bigger side. 
I think you should be at least 57cm but I would just go to a bike shop and ask for what your ball park size should be.

newmexrb1:

As for the skake board analogy, I may have exagerated about this effect a little. It does not really feel like a pendelium, In fact the butt to BB feels solid when you pedal. it only feel a little "springy" going over bumps when compared to my old "massive 300g carbon seatpost" (it has super thick cabon tube) would be a better way of saying it. In away it feels quite elegant in the way the stiff bottom and "softer feeling top" works I feel that it does not impact power transfer in anyway (quite efficient thanks to the stiff bottom) What it does is dampening the ground vibration and make you feel as you are gliding over the road. I think this effect is the combination of the ISP and the thin seatstay. However I think thin seatstay is probably more responsible for this than ISP. 

If you have a steel bike now then the change would be quite noticable. The bike feels very fast and in my opinion it is probabaly best for sprinting then decending some fast hills. climbing (although stiff front end gives an illustion of heavier frontend feel when you try to rock it standing up but you are in fact going faster) Although it is a pretty comfortable bike it definitly isn't a touring geometry.


----------



## Zuckerkorn

Ok i have to admit, I am quite paraniod, so I researched for weeks now trying to find out whats going on and who actually makes all these stuff. I only have one lead, thats it.
http://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/main.php?sLAN=en
I have emailed them and waiting for reply. If this proves to be a distributor too, i'm going with Hong Fu and Jenny. She is nice to communicate with and proven very reliable so far.


----------



## Zuckerkorn

addition to my previous post.
How i'm going to prove greatkeen is actual manufacturer..

have a look at the picture from greatkeen website. This is their frame FM015, take a close look on the chainstay. It has their website address on it.
https://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/pic/1244792727.jpg

now we look at Hong Fu frame HF-FM015
https://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Upload/Pic/2009108222949126.jpg
chainstay area seems to be cloned over in photoshop.

Of course this means nothing if Hong Fu is not putting 100% markup on it and just trying to make honest living. I support that. And i will order from them. But I still would like to hear what greatkeen says.


----------



## philippec

Zuckerkorn said:


> addition to my previous post.
> How i'm going to prove greatkeen is actual manufacturer..
> 
> have a look at the picture from greatkeen website. This is their frame FM015, take a close look on the chainstay. It has their website address on it.
> https://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/pic/1244792727.jpg
> 
> now we look at Hong Fu frame HF-FM015
> https://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Upload/Pic/2009108222949126.jpg
> chainstay area seems to be cloned over in photoshop.
> 
> Of course this means nothing if Hong Fu is not putting 100% markup on it and just trying to make honest living. I support that. And i will order from them. But I still would like to hear what greatkeen says.


Well, you will see that picture floating around w/ a lot of names on the chainstay. Many of them, including the Great Keen one, look like bad photoshop overlays. The cleanest chainstay address I have seen is hzflybike.com (see picture) -- that could mean one of two things; either hzfly is the manufacturer (doubtful) or that they have the best photoshop peeps.


----------



## Zuckerkorn

philippec said:


> Well, you will see that picture floating around w/ a lot of names on the chainstay. Many of them, including the Great Keen one, look like bad photoshop overlays. The cleanest chainstay address I have seen is hzflybike.com (see picture) -- that could mean one of two things; either hzfly is the manufacturer (doubtful) or that they have the best photoshop peeps.


"I just made a fool out of myself in front of T-bone."

This is just getting crazier and crazier isn't it?


----------



## PLAYONIT

Zuckerkorn said:


> addition to my previous post.
> How i'm going to prove greatkeen is actual manufacturer..
> 
> have a look at the picture from greatkeen website. This is their frame FM015, take a close look on the chainstay. It has their website address on it.
> https://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/pic/1244792727.jpg
> 
> now we look at Hong Fu frame HF-FM015
> https://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Upload/Pic/2009108222949126.jpg
> chainstay area seems to be cloned over in photoshop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course this means nothing if Hong Fu is not putting 100% markup on it and just trying to make honest living. I support that. And i will order from them. But I still would like to hear what greatkeen says.



I still say Greatkeen is a distributor... Look at the factory pictures and look at Hongfu Factory pics.. same factory.. Then open a few pics on Alibaba of other distributors.. same factory pics... most claim to manufacture their frames.. I would be willing to bet also that all models Hongfu sells do not come from the same factory .. model-1 frame might come from manufacturer factory X and model-2 frame from manufacturer factory Y... just my thought's


----------



## CabDoctor

Even though this is the frame forum, I thought you guys might like to see this. I've been doing some research on Asian component manufactures too go along with our Asian frames. Well most of us have probably seen the "Feather" brakes and also all the copies(built under license and under the supervision of Bob Barnett) 

A friend on another forum showed me the subcontractor making these http://www.mrcontrol-bike.com/

You can see the brakes here

http://www.mrcontrol-bike.com/page.asp?pg=24

I'm going to try and get in contact with the company. I wonder what their minimum purchase number is? Would be nice to see if I could get these into the States at a descent price(I've seen them for $120 a set in Europe). Anyone have any tips with getting in contact with companies of this nature?


----------



## Zuckerkorn

Hong Fu website is back again.

btw I see everyone is going after HM015, but what is your opinion on this one
http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Products.asp?Id=430


----------



## Robefa

Hey guys look here http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/new-british-bike-brand-launched-comtat-london-23743

Recognise the frame?

Read the posts below the article. I'm not sure if I want to criticise the guy(s), or hail them for pulling the trigger on making a business out of it.


----------



## royd

I wonder if he is buying these frames from Jenny. I love the part about the "frames were designed in England and manufacture in the far east"

We should all email him pictures of our frames!


----------



## fab4

*Hong Fu Frameset*

Finally received my Hong Fu HF-FM015-SPL carbon frameset today. Took 50 days but worth the wait. Can't wait to build it up.


----------



## Zuckerkorn

royd said:


> I wonder if he is buying these frames from Jenny. I love the part about the "frames were designed in England and manufacture in the far east"
> 
> We should all email him pictures of our frames!


and by "designed" they obviously meant moving their lazy asses just a little bit to blatantly copy Lemond's style.


----------



## velomateo

Lucky. How would you rate the paint job? Looks great from the pictures, but how about up close.


----------



## independentmind

Robefa said:


> Hey guys look here http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/new-british-bike-brand-launched-comtat-london-23743
> 
> Recognise the frame?
> 
> Read the posts below the article. I'm not sure if I want to criticise the guy(s), or hail them for pulling the trigger on making a business out of it.


I guess people finally got the hint these are great frames at an excellent price. Anyone with a little startup money could start a half decent operation. I think he's smart for doing it.

The downside is that if things keep going the way they are, in a couple more months these frames will double in price and be out of reach. I dont know if it's because i've been now exposed to these frames and been paying attention to the market, but i'm starting to notice quite a few small bike companies using frames that look a heck of a lot like stock from hong-fu.


----------



## independentmind

royd said:


> I wonder if he is buying these frames from Jenny. I love the part about the "frames were designed in England and manufacture in the far east"
> 
> We should all email him pictures of our frames!


That's the kind of blatant bulls*** that would drive me away from buying from him. Why not be truthful, ie: we scored these frames at an awsome price from the east so we are able to offer them to you with an excellent grouppo at a great price.

But i guess there are alot of people that fall for that kind of bull.


----------



## supras2kracer

CabDoctor said:


> Even though this is the frame forum, I thought you guys might like to see this. I've been doing some research on Asian component manufactures too go along with our Asian frames. Well most of us have probably seen the "Feather" brakes and also all the copies(built under license and under the supervision of Bob Barnett)
> 
> A friend on another forum showed me the subcontractor making these http://www.mrcontrol-bike.com/
> 
> You can see the brakes here
> 
> http://www.mrcontrol-bike.com/page.asp?pg=24
> 
> I'm going to try and get in contact with the company. I wonder what their minimum purchase number is? Would be nice to see if I could get these into the States at a descent price(I've seen them for $120 a set in Europe). Anyone have any tips with getting in contact with companies of this nature?


Check out performance bike's new component group. I bought them myself and am just waiting for a few more parts to complete my build. (230 total for brifters, front derailleur, and rear derailleur)

Their components feel pretty solid though. They are just a rebranded version of "microshift arsis" component group. I did a lot of research on the brand and it seems like a decent product. The weight is supposed to be comparable to dura ace and function comparable to 105. I'll probably post a little review once I finally get this all put together.


----------



## Zuckerkorn

supras2kracer said:


> Check out performance bike's new component group. I bought them myself and am just waiting for a few more parts to complete my build. (230 total for brifters, front derailleur, and rear derailleur)


Link? Are you talking about Forte stuff?


----------



## RC28

Zuckerkorn said:


> Link? Are you talking about Forte stuff?


Just saw them at the Performance store in Westminster, CO. Yes, they are rebranded Microshift, although these are some of the nicest looking iterations I've seen. Still not crazy about the weight or upshift button.

Here's a link to the Carbon ones...notice how the FORTE label is upside down...

http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1080514_-1_57000_20000_57500


----------



## Zuckerkorn

RC28 said:


> Here's a link to the Carbon ones...notice how the FORTE label is upside down...


Thanks. Would be quite nice looking if one takes that logo off somehow. So is it totally weird to have 2 control buttons like that?


----------



## RC28

Zuckerkorn said:


> Thanks. Would be quite nice looking if one takes that logo off somehow. So is it totally weird to have 2 control buttons like that?


It's just not too "user friendly" when performing upshifts.


----------



## fab4

The paint job is very good. Glossy white with clear coat. A little rough around the bottom bracket shell area. They painted over the shell and scrape it out later. In terms of durability of the paint I can't tell until I build it up and ride it.


----------



## Rob81

Question for FM015-SPL frame buyers: has the headset provided a tensioning top cap? if yes, star nut or expander?


----------



## fab4

It comes with an compressor (expanding) top cap.


----------



## Rob81

awesome, I just ordered mine too (fm015-spl) so now I'll have a full road bike "park" in carbon naked  2 bikes 
This one will be 3k, 49 size and it's going to look very racey with probably no need to cut the vertical tube if I did my math right, or maybe 2-3 cm depending of saddle choice.
Now planning which components to transplant from the Specy Roubaix to this, and looking for some UK good online shops (they ship faster than Italian shops and with better prices), any hints? (chainreaction, pbk and wiggle are already bookmarked  )


----------



## athletic91

Rob81 said:


> awesome, I just ordered mine too (fm015-spl) so now I'll have a full road bike "park" in carbon naked  2 bikes
> This one will be 3k, 49 size and it's going to look very racey with probably no need to cut the vertical tube if I did my math right, or maybe 2-3 cm depending of saddle choice.
> Now planning which components to transplant from the Specy Roubaix to this, and looking for some UK good online shops (they ship faster than Italian shops and with better prices), any hints? (chainreaction, pbk and wiggle are already bookmarked  )


fm015 has size 49? jenny told me they do not have a mould for that size yet and it takes a min order of 50 pcs to create the mould


----------



## Rob81

I ordered from another seller/distributor, AFAIK the only one having 49 size


----------



## athletic91

athletic91 said:


> fm015 has size 49? jenny told me they do not have a mould for that size yet and it takes a min order of 50 pcs to create the mould


jenny just told me that they now have 49

looks like the original factory open the size 49 mould


----------



## montuno

I'm new in this forum but I wish to show you my full chinese cycle. Now It's 6.52 kg only. 
I hope you'll like it


----------



## Zuckerkorn

montuno said:


> I'm new in this forum but I wish to show you my full chinese cycle. Now It's 6.52 kg only.
> I hope you'll like it


Specs please. what, where, how much, etc.
what are these wheels?

thanks


----------



## Opus51569

independentmind said:


> I guess people finally got the hint these are great frames at an excellent price. Anyone with a little startup money could start a half decent operation. I think he's smart for doing it.
> 
> The downside is that if things keep going the way they are, in a couple more months these frames will double in price and be out of reach. I dont know if it's because i've been now exposed to these frames and been paying attention to the market, but i'm starting to notice quite a few small bike companies using frames that look a heck of a lot like stock from hong-fu.


I did read the posts beneath the article, and is it just me, or did the people who were tossing around the $300 carbon frame comparison never actually post a link as some folks requested?


----------



## Zuckerkorn

Opus51569 said:


> I did read the posts beneath the article, and is it just me, or did the people who were tossing around the $300 carbon frame comparison never actually post a link as some folks requested?


There is no link with purchase price openly displayed. 
system works like this: 
alibaba.com > search carbon frame > contact seller by email > get quote 
but I can assure you frame they are using can be bought for about $250 - $280 (wholesale price)
for example

http://www.comtat.co.uk/products/7.htm

=

http://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/cp_detail.php?id=6&nowmenuid=2&cpath=0001:&catid=1

price from greatkeen catalogue $250 + fork $60


----------



## supras2kracer

Anyone know how to install the expander plug in the carbon fork? I've looked everywhere for directions and can't figure this out.


----------



## vaetuning

*015-spl*

Hi Chocy

Thanks a lot for the first riding report!!

As I'm also waiting for my 015-SPL frame to show up, I'm interested in knowing if you have some new impressions from riding your super cool bike??

I do not know if you have ever ridden any Scott frames - if you know the CR-1 frame, how whould you compare that with the 015-SPL frame?

When you the describe the way the frame acts on the road - how do you think it would react with a rider weighing 105 kg??

Cheers


----------



## speedyg55

montuno said:


> I'm new in this forum but I wish to show you my full chinese cycle. Now It's 6.52 kg only.
> I hope you'll like it
> https://img8.imageshack.us/img8/1121/dscf2458j.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]
> Looks great! However, specs are a requirement on here;)


----------



## MercuryMan76

supras2kracer said:


> Anyone know how to install the expander plug in the carbon fork? I've looked everywhere for directions and can't figure this out.


This is one thing that for some reason I had the hardest time with. Make sure that your stem bolts are loose before you do insert the expander plug. 

Depending on the type of expander plug you got you should remove the top cap and bolt. You should then be able to use the expander plug and preload it to fit inside the fork. Once you've done that then insert the top cap and bolt back into the plug and insert the entire assembly into your fork. As you tighten the top cap it should tension the expander plug a bit so it fits snugly inside your fork tube. Once it's tightened to the correct torque go ahead and tighten your stem bolts bolts accordingly. 

Whenever I do this I've always had a little bit of play in the headset somewhere. It's also really important to make sure that your steerer tube is cut to the proper length and seats a few millimeters beneath the top of your stem or the top of any spacers you might be using above your stem.


----------



## Tim_D

MercuryMan --

"you should remove the top cap and bolt. You should then be able to use the expander plug and preload it to fit inside the fork."

I don't get this... if you've removed the top cap and bolt, how can you pre-load the expander? It's integral --- the bolt pulls the lower wedge upward, expanding the knurled 'leaves'. Do you have the headset pictured?


----------



## Rob81

just put the expander in the tube and use the alley key to turn it and the expander will expand, simple! Nothing to dismount there


----------



## Tim_D

Rob --

If you mean with the top cap & bolt in place, then, yes, that's what I'd expect to have to do...MM's observation about "always [having] a little bit of play somewhere." made my heart sink! I was hoping that the beefier bottom race might preclude this.


----------



## jpo

*Torelli Montefalco?*

Is the hf-fm015 a painted Torelli Montefalco?

John


----------



## Tim_D

jpo said:


> Is the hf-fm015 a painted Torelli Montefalco?
> 
> John


No. Not at all.


----------



## MercuryMan76

The expander plug that I have is different than yours. Yours looks similiar to the FSA like this one:

http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/19...dsets/FSA-Compressor---Carbon-Steer-Tubes.htm

You can see how on the FSA plug the top cap will actually come unscrewed from the expansion piece so that you can preload the expansion piece separately. I'm not sure if yours is the same way, but it looks to be a similiar design.



Tim_D said:


> MercuryMan --
> 
> "you should remove the top cap and bolt. You should then be able to use the expander plug and preload it to fit inside the fork."
> 
> I don't get this... if you've removed the top cap and bolt, how can you pre-load the expander? It's integral --- the bolt pulls the lower wedge upward, expanding the knurled 'leaves'. Do you have the headset pictured?


----------



## supras2kracer

Thanks for the tips. I returned the one I got and took the fork in. They looked through their spare parts and found the proper size.

I finished my build last night. Just need bar tape and also I need to figure out how to mount my front brake, it's bolt isn't long enough to connect with the (extra long) sleeve. Any ideas? I don't have any extra brakes to pull one off of.


----------



## speedyg55

My build. I couldn't be happier with this bike.










2010 SRAM Force
Zipp 303/404 wheelset
Speedplay X1 Ti pedals
Pro by Shimano bars
Selle Italia Flite Gel Flow saddle
KCNC seatpost and skewers (in the mail not on bike)


----------



## MercuryMan76

You should be able to pick up a spare bolt/sleeve from any bike shop.



supras2kracer said:


> Thanks for the tips. I returned the one I got and took the fork in. They looked through their spare parts and found the proper size.
> 
> I finished my build last night. Just need bar tape and also I need to figure out how to mount my front brake, it's bolt isn't long enough to connect with the (extra long) sleeve. Any ideas? I don't have any extra brakes to pull one off of.


----------



## PLAYONIT

Tim_D said:


> Rob --
> 
> If you mean with the top cap & bolt in place, then, yes, that's what I'd expect to have to do...MM's observation about "always [having] a little bit of play somewhere." made my heart sink! I was hoping that the beefier bottom race might preclude this.



I do not have any play in my headset on my 015-SPL..


----------



## royd

Sweet!

Where did you get your KCNC skewers?


----------



## chocy

OK more ride report.

I took this morning off (in exchange for tons of unpaid overtime)
and I went out for a ride. Same course with a flat 9W on the way back.
The bike again is a very nice ride. It is overall very stiff even when pushed to 30MPH+ sprints. Fast downhill is confident inspiring. AS for that spring like feel I said before, I think I may have exaggerated that too much. The bike is comfortable but stiff enough so that riers at any weight should be worried (I weigh 180lbs) With the super hard bottom and well damped seat makes the the bike feels very nice overall. 

Interestingly this lead to this feeling that I could go faster on this bike with confidence, but I could not meet that challenge yet. My numbers were more or less same with the old bike. 

Again. 015SPL is very nice. I am really getting into SRAM double shift too. It is very quick to shift. and light. FD leave a little more to desire though....


----------



## newmexrb1

Chocy,
Thanks for the update. The FD issue has come up before--don't have one, so just repeating what has been said here before which is that they are tweeky to set up, but once done, work superbly. 

Today was payday and I have the $$ to spring. Only issue now is whether to go with Hong-Fu--plenty of satisfied customers, or go with another company. Zuckerhorn (maybe others) has mentioned quotes closer to 425--has anyone actually sourced the 015 thro one of these??? I'm thinking the 80 buck difference is worth going with HF.


----------



## chachas

Tim_D said:


> MercuryMan --
> 
> "you should remove the top cap and bolt. You should then be able to use the expander plug and preload it to fit inside the fork."
> 
> I don't get this... if you've removed the top cap and bolt, how can you pre-load the expander? It's integral --- the bolt pulls the lower wedge upward, expanding the knurled 'leaves'. Do you have the headset pictured?





MercuryMan76 said:


> Whenever I do this I've always had a little bit of play in the headset somewhere. It's also really important to make sure that your steerer tube is cut to the proper length and seats a few millimeters beneath the top of your stem or the top of any spacers you might be using above your stem.


I have this headset on my pseudo kredo. I was having problems with play as well. Easy fix though... with the wheels on and all headset bolts loose, push the front wheel directly into a wall, straddling and using the frame for pushing. This puts plenty of pressure on the crown race and the lower headset bearing. Then snug, I mean, really snug, the stem down. It helps to have 3 or 4 hands here. While snugged, go though the bolt tightening sequence and voi-la, no headset play! Hope this helps!


----------



## Zuckerkorn

newmexrb1 said:


> Zuckerman (maybe others) has mentioned quotes closer to 425--has anyone actually sourced the 015 thro one of these??? I'm thinking the 80 buck difference is worth going with HF.


I'm scoring, well 99%, next week from greatkeen. HM015 non ISP frame+fork for $usd 350.
I was contemplating for a while if I should get it painted matte black for just $40 more. But probably won't. Greatkeen charges about $80 for shipping. Very good communication. Person i'm talking to is Tony.
One interesting thing, Tony says " if you need 55cm,i will shipping in 3~5days when i receive your payment. 58cm need 7~10days". What's waiting time for Hong Fu again?

This is my last chance to ask around about sizing though. Should I do 58 or it's a very bad idea? I'm 6', pants inseam 34. Only other option is 55, but I know that's going to be small.
I am also interested to hear about carbon handlebars they are selling. HB002 and HB003, $48, 245g. Bad idea?

Just a heads up. avoid company called Powerline Top, contact person Mandy Chen, emails: mandy at essorbike.com, mandychen0514 at gmail.com
Even if they are legit , it's too much hassle to deal with them. very negative experience.


----------



## chocy

newmexrb1:

I am not saying that FD doesn't work. It works fine. It shifts quick and all that. but the shifter does need a lot of force. That is the only issue that I have with it. I know why it is the way it is but, I must have been on Shimano for too long...


----------



## newmexrb1

Zuckerkorn said:


> I'm scoring, well 99%, next week from greatkeen. HM015 non ISP frame+fork for $usd 350.
> I was contemplating for a while if I should get it painted matte black for just $40 more. But probably won't. Greatkeen charges about $80 for shipping. Very good communication. Person i'm talking to is Tony.
> One interesting thing, Tony says " if you need 55cm,i will shipping in 3~5days when i receive your payment. 58cm need 7~10days". What's waiting time for Hong Fu again?
> 
> This is my last chance to ask around about sizing though. Should I do 58 or it's a very bad idea? I'm 6', pants inseam 34. Only other option is 55, but I know that's going to be small.
> I am also interested to hear about carbon handlebars they are selling. HB002 and HB003, $48, 245g. Bad idea?
> 
> Just a heads up. avoid company called Powerline Top, contact person Mandy Chen, emails: mandy at essorbike.com, mandychen0514 at gmail.com
> Even if they are legit , it's too much hassle to deal with them. very negative experience.


Zuckerhorn (sorry for the misname above), I'm cool with ditching the ISP--know if its available in BB30? I'm 6"1" with a pant inseam of 32--Iookng at 56. 

Can Tony provide references? Means nothing but a few names one could contact independently...


----------



## Zuckerkorn

newmexrb1 said:


> Zuckerhorn (sorry for the misname above), I'm cool with ditching the ISP--know if its available in BB30? I'm 6"1" with a pant inseam of 32--Iookng at 56.
> 
> Can Tony provide references? Means nothing but a few names one could contact independently...


56?? 015 frame doesnt come in 56. Only 49,51,53,55,58.
That's why I'm having such hard time chosing.

I will ask him about BB30 and waiting time for that.

What do you mean by references?


----------



## newmexrb1

Now i can't get the dims off the site... I was thinking it was 55 seat tube by 56 top tube. I know 58 is too big. References? Just names and addys of satisfied customers. May mean nothing, but if you can't get a few US customers names and addys, then I worry. We have like 10 persons here who are delighted with their Hong Fu bikes, one who isn't. The other thing I wonder is that we are getting seconds--stuff that doesn't get bought by Cube or Riddle, gets sent down the foodchain. The other theory I have is that during off hours a second shift with access to lower quality CF is stuffing the molds--all manner of paranoid fantasies I can dream up, and the lower the price, the more ripe my imagination:cryin:


----------



## Zuckerkorn

newmexrb1 said:


> Now i can't get the dims off the site... I was thinking it was 55 seat tube by 56 top tube. I know 58 is too big. References? Just names and addys of satisfied customers. May mean nothing, but if you can't get a few US customers names and addys, then I worry. We have like 10 persons here who are delighted with their Hong Fu bikes, one who isn't. The other thing I wonder is that we are getting seconds--stuff that doesn't get bought by Cube or Riddle, gets sent down the foodchain. The other theory I have is that during off hours a second shift with access to lower quality CF is stuffing the molds--all manner of paranoid fantasies I can dream up, and the lower the price, the more ripe my imagination:cryin:


according to technical drawings and Hong Fu website 55 has 547mm top tube length, I'm afraid it is going to be short for you. 58 on the other hand has 567mm, but damn thing is tall. 

Honestly I yet to find a person who bought from greatkeen. I'm pretty spooked myself too but hey somebody's gotta do it first right? At least on this forum.


----------



## speedyg55

royd said:


> Sweet!
> 
> Where did you get your KCNC skewers?


eBay. I bought the seatpost and asked the seller if he would throw in skewers for $50 and he went for it


----------



## kable

Anyone have any info on hf-fm006 or hf-fmoo4 link here: http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Products.asp?Id=402

I have not read any comments on this particular frame. and thank you all for sharing your experiences, its very helpfull.


----------



## Tim_D

Zuckerkorn --

I'm 6' with a 31" inside leg, and have sprung for the 58 cm. Head tube is 5mm taller than my current bike, seat tube considerably more so. However, the critical top tube length is actually a little shorter on the HF (567 v. 570 mm). The 55 cm would be _*way*_ too small for you -- you'd need a 140mm stem!

It strikes me that whoever is making these frames, if they could just put more of a slope in the top tube (taking, say 2-3 cm off the seat tube length), they could save an awful lot of weight on the frame.


----------



## Rob81

I ordered from greatkeen also because was the 1st with size 49 because 51 was too tall and I want a big drop from saddle to handlebar and the smallest frame who could fit me (I'll add a 130 +6° stem).
Great comunication and you pay 50% at the order and 50% before the shipping.


----------



## Zuckerkorn

Tim_D said:


> Zuckerkorn --
> 
> I'm 6' with a 31" inside leg, and have sprung for the 58 cm. Head tube is 5mm taller than my current bike, seat tube considerably more so. However, the critical top tube length is actually a little shorter on the HF (567 v. 570 mm). The 55 cm would be _*way*_ too small for you -- you'd need a 140mm stem!
> 
> It strikes me that whoever is making these frames, if they could just put more of a slope in the top tube (taking, say 2-3 cm off the seat tube length), they could save an awful lot of weight on the frame.


Tim_D Thanks a lot. I was really having a hard time deciding on the size. Wonder why they dont make 56 and 57. Those are quite popular sizes usually. Are you planing on using their headset too?


----------



## Zuckerkorn

Rob81 said:


> I ordered from greatkeen also because was the 1st with size 49 because 51 was too tall and I want a big drop from saddle to handlebar and the smallest frame who could fit me (I'll add a 130 +6° stem).
> Great comunication and you pay 50% at the order and 50% before the shipping.


Nice. Did you also talk to Tony? Whats waiting time on yours? I was quoted 7 to 10 days on 58.


----------



## athletic91

is there any lead time on the great keen bike?

fm015 frame non isp and fork for 350 , does it includes shipping?

i got a 490 quote from jenny for the following
-non isp fm015
-fork
-headset
-includes shipping to asia where i am


----------



## newmexrb1

Tim,

Let me know when you get the bike--our size is about the same--at least length wise (I weigh 200 lbs). 350 sounds almost too good to be true. Though I want the BB30, 10 days wait is real attractive. Nearly 6 weeks later I'm still waiting for a light carbon crank from Germany.


----------



## Fogerson

Tim_D said:


> No. Not at all.


Agreed, the fm015 isn't a repainted Torelli Montefalco.

I do believe the Montefalco is a repainted Axman R5, though...as is a Ridley Damocles.


----------



## Zuckerkorn

athletic91 said:


> is there any lead time on the great keen bike?
> 
> fm015 frame non isp and fork for 350 , does it includes shipping?
> 
> i got a 490 quote from jenny for the following
> -non isp fm015
> -fork
> -headset
> -includes shipping to asia where i am


HM015 non ISP $350 with fork + $15 Headset + $80 Shipping to NA = $445
This is what we know so far from Greatkeen.
Lead time approx 7-10 days.


----------



## Tim_D

Zuckerkorn --

The 58 cm seat tube measurement is actually centre-top, and the seat tube protrudes quite a bit above the top-tube / seat stay junction. 

The actual centre-centre measurement isn't given on their engineering drawings, but is...540 mm (gotta love SketchUp), about what you'd expect for our height (540 mm c-c seat tube, 570 mm c-c virtual top tube). 

My current frame is 510 mm c-c seat tube, but is far more aggressively sloping than the HF.

Yes, am using their headsets -- 1-1/2" tapered HS's are around $60-70 retail, so $10 seems a bargain. In fact, I ordered three! (You never know...)

newmex -- will do.


----------



## jpo

Do you know if the BB30 is an options for Greatkeen and how much is it?

Any idea where to buy the Axman R5 for a comparable price? I like the frames higher headtube.


----------



## newmexrb1

I want to know too--I just requested quote from Tony for BB30 with ISP. :thumbsup: BTW, has anyone gone back to Jenny at Hong-Fu after getting GreatKeen quote and asking if she can close the gap?


----------



## ahmed

greatkeen is more like great fraud...ordered a TT frame last month, received a kleenex, roll of duct tape and 4 cig butts...packed in a box.

lesson learnt...always use paypal!


----------



## rook

ahmed said:


> greatkeen is more like great fraud...ordered a TT frame last month, received a kleenex, roll of duct tape and 4 cig butts...packed in a box.
> 
> lesson learnt...always use paypal!



Wow! Seriously?! The seller sent you Kleenex instead of the frame you ordered?! What an a$$hole! That's just rubbing it in your face that he stole your money.


----------



## Zuckerkorn

ahmed said:


> greatkeen is more like great fraud...ordered a TT frame last month, received a kleenex, roll of duct tape and 4 cig butts...packed in a box.
> 
> lesson learnt...always use paypal!


You know you can't just say something like this and provide no details whatsoever.
When, what did you order, how did you pay, who was your contact person and etc.
Few guys here including myself are ready to order from them or did already, and now you come in and change everything with your statement.


----------



## athletic91

is there a paypal option for greatkeen


----------



## Zuckerkorn

athletic91 said:


> is there a paypal option for greatkeen


Yes there is. That's what bothers me most of all in his statement.
He could have paid with bank transfer, but why?


----------



## athletic91

Zuckerkorn said:


> Yes there is. That's what bothers me most of all in his statement.
> He could have paid with bank transfer, but why?


i guess i will wait for someone here to prove they received their stuff before pulling the trigger on greatkeen


----------



## PLAYONIT

ahmed said:


> greatkeen is more like great fraud...ordered a TT frame last month, received a kleenex, roll of duct tape and 4 cig butts...packed in a box.
> 
> lesson learnt...always use paypal!


So you have contacted Greatkeen and not received a return to your inquiry??

I went to check out the Greatkeen site and it is similar to the Hongfu site with one exception.... Great keen has a message board and when I checked it what I found was not bike related....

One last thought has anyone currently dealing with Greatkeen contacted Tony with this allegation to see if he will respond. I would be curious to see if the people who have paid get a response..


BTW ahmed...... I hope you are sincere with your post as there are good people here that have an investment with Greatkeen.... I only hope they receive a good outcome with no need to worry themselves sick...


----------



## asad137

I wonder -- did the kleenex and duct tape have chinese labels? Maybe someone stole the frame during shipment.

Asad


----------



## Zuckerkorn

Ok I have contacted Tony from Greatkeen and questioned him regarding this incident. He obviously denied those allegations and sounded genuinely upset.
He would like to clear his name and said would do anything to prove that didn't happen.

he says 
" the best method you aks the guy provide the picture of the tracking No.I can recognize my write words on EMS form."


----------



## athletic91

Zuckerkorn said:


> Ok I have contacted Tony from Greatkeen and questioned him regarding this incident. He obviously denied those allegations and sounded genuinely upset.
> He would like to clear his name and said would do anything to prove that didn't happen.
> 
> he says
> " the best method you aks the guy provide the picture of the tracking No.I can recognize my write words on EMS form."


well he can simply deny the handwriting is his.

i suggest getting a sample handwriting from him first, then we can compare that to the ems invoice(should ahmed show here)

anywhere ahmed where are you?why are u not posting more details


----------



## Rob81

there's an Italian forum thread similar to this one. I asked if there were/are problems from Greatkeen and/or other sellers/distributors and all seems fine.


----------



## jmarteijn

I planning to buy a OEM frame from ebay member 88bikefun, link : http://cgi.ebay.nl/New-Full-Carbon-...Road_Bikes?hash=item4a9bdf15b5#ht_1776wt_1165

Does someone have some experience with installing the headset? Do you need special tools for this?
Also installing the bottom bracket? Are specials handlings needed to install this?

Thkx.


----------



## Zuckerkorn

athletic91 said:


> well he can simply deny the handwriting is his.
> 
> i suggest getting a sample handwriting from him first, then we can compare that to the ems invoice(should ahmed show here)
> 
> anywhere ahmed where are you?why are u not posting more details


..what you said or we can simply compare postal codes.
Seems like Ahmed is from UK.
I can ask tony to provide me with postal codes of all UK addresses he ever shipped.


----------



## independentmind

"_greatkeen is more like great fraud...ordered a TT frame last month, received a kleenex, roll of duct tape and 4 cig butts...packed in a box.

lesson learnt...always use paypal!?"_


Has anyone looked at this person's post history? What makes anyone think this actually happened? 
I find it curious this poster has not returned to this thread after posting that response.


----------



## robpar

jmarteijn said:


> I planning to buy a OEM frame from ebay member 88bikefun, link : http://cgi.ebay.nl/New-Full-Carbon-...Road_Bikes?hash=item4a9bdf15b5#ht_1776wt_1165
> 
> Does someone have some experience with installing the headset? Do you need special tools for this?
> Also installing the bottom bracket? Are specials handlings needed to install this?
> 
> Thkx.


 I bought a frame from him. Not this one, but similar. Headset: standard integrated. I used an IS2 cane creek. No special tools just follow the headset instructions. Take the fork to a LBS to install the crown race; this is the safest way or you can try doing it yourself if you have a crown race setting tool.
Bottom bracket: depends on what you have. I installed a Shimano external bearing BB. You will need a bottom bracket tool to tighten it. Make sure you understand which side you're working on and the direction to tighten. Go to Park Tools website to get instructions


----------



## jmarteijn

Thank you for the detailed information.

I'm curious about the quality of the Frame and fork,, can you tell me if the quality and the complete finish of the frame? reliable ?

Also does this frame have a clear coating so i can let this paint in a different color?

Thkx in advance


----------



## vaetuning

Hi Chocy

What size Band Clamp does the 015-SPL frame use??

Cheers

Vaetuning


----------



## vaetuning

Hi Chocy

What size Band Clamp does the 015-SPL frame use for the front derallieur??

Cheers

Vaetuning


----------



## PLAYONIT

vaetuning said:


> Hi Chocy
> 
> What size Band Clamp does the 015-SPL frame use for the front derallieur??
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Vaetuning


34.8mm


----------



## rook

independentmind said:


> "_greatkeen is more like great fraud...ordered a TT frame last month, received a kleenex, roll of duct tape and 4 cig butts...packed in a box.
> 
> lesson learnt...always use paypal!?"_
> 
> 
> Has anyone looked at this person's post history? What makes anyone think this actually happened?
> I find it curious this poster has not returned to this thread after posting that response.






My guess is that ahmed may be one of these distributors badmouthing his competition. This thread is already over 30+ pages long. There are probably other distributors on here pretending to be happy customers.


----------



## vaetuning

*Band Clamp*



PLAYONIT said:


> 34.8mm


Thanks a lot Playonit

I'm trying to get everything together before the frames arrive at my door!!

I can see I was almost stuttering when I asked the question about the clamp, when I was posting it the first time, I received an answer which told me the server was too busy at the moment, and that I should try again later - apparently it went through the first time after all. 

How is your build coming along, and have you had your hip surgery yet??

It must be the perfect motivation to swift recovery, knowing you've got this beatiful bike waiting for you!!

I hope everything goes according to plan with you and your surgery.

Cheers


----------



## Tim_D

robpar said:


> Take the fork to a LBS to install the crown race; this is the safest way or you can try doing it yourself if you have a crown race setting tool.


Or simply use a length of 40 mm sanitary waste pipe and a rubber mallet...


----------



## Tim_D

jmarteijn said:


> Also does this frame have a clear coating so i can let this paint in a different color?
> 
> Thkx in advance


jmarteijn --

If you're talking about the hong fu frame, they will do a custom paint job for you for $60. You'll have to choose from a range of set colour schemes.


----------



## jmarteijn

Tim_D said:


> jmarteijn --
> 
> If you're talking about the hong fu frame, they will do a custom paint job for you for $60. You'll have to choose from a range of set colour schemes.


What about the quality and finish of the frame and fork?


----------



## jmarteijn

jmarteijn said:


> What about the quality and finish of the frame and fork?


I asked this, because i want to let the frame be painted by a local shop, but they need to know if the frame allready have a coating on it.

Thkx.


----------



## athletic91

jmarteijn said:


> I asked this, because i want to let the frame be painted by a local shop, but they need to know if the frame allready have a coating on it.
> 
> Thkx.


all the frames come with a gloss coat unless you request jenny not to


----------



## kable

I was set on buying an Alu frame until reading through this thread... now I am undecided again. Can any of you compare how these frames ride in comparison to a really good Alu frame, (ex caad9). 
I'm mostly curious to know if these bikes completely blow away aluminum frames in terms of ride quality and comfort or are they just more of a good deal for the money.

thanks for any advice


----------



## robpar

jmarteijn said:


> Thank you for the detailed information.
> 
> I'm curious about the quality of the Frame and fork,, can you tell me if the quality and the complete finish of the frame? reliable ?
> 
> Also does this frame have a clear coating so i can let this paint in a different color?
> 
> Thkx in advance


The quality is good; clear coat, but you can ebay message him and you can get it unfinished. I've put about 1500 miles on it (it's my B bike). it's OK not great not bad. It's a little noisy (need to really trim your cables just right and FD shift resonates in massive down tube) and it's not the lightest but hey, it's not supposed to. I'd say it's comparable to some of the "middle of the road" frames that sell for 700 or 800 bucks. When compared to my TCR C frame, this frame is inferior but not by much.... I bought it as an experiment... IT IS NOT A HIGH END FRAME; IT DOES NOT RIDE LIKE A HIGH END FRAME but its a decent frame.


----------



## Zuckerkorn

robpar said:


> IT IS NOT A HIGH END FRAME; IT DOES NOT RIDE LIKE A HIGH END FRAME but its a decent frame.


It's pseudo Kuota Kredo right?


----------



## MercuryMan76

kable said:


> I was set on buying an Alu frame until reading through this thread... now I am undecided again. Can any of you compare how these frames ride in comparison to a really good Alu frame, (ex caad9).
> I'm mostly curious to know if these bikes completely blow away aluminum frames in terms of ride quality and comfort or are they just more of a good deal for the money.
> 
> thanks for any advice


Ok, I can get in on this one. I bought the pseudo Kredo frame from ebay seller bicycle_999 about 6 months ago and built it up with SRAM Rival. Here's the original thread I did on it:

https://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=173378

I also bought a 2009 Caad9-6 about two months ago and I dumped all the crap components and built it up with a mix of Ultegra 6700 and SRAM Red components. After putting in some time on both I can easily say the Caad9 is much stiffer than the ebay carbon. In my opinion the ebay frame has a lot of lateral flex when compared to the Caad9. The stiffness of the Caad9 also gives it a "faster" feeling so to speak...the power transfer seems to be much more efficient on the Caad9, especially when you're sprinting. I'm not saying the ebay frame is scary, I've gotten it up to 48mph on descents comfortably and it does fine. And you can build it up pretty light. I haven't weighed mine but I'm guessing it's around 17lbs or less on a 52cm frame. It also absorbs the road well too...I don't feel as beat up on as I do after riding the Caad9. 

Overall it's almost an unfair comparison to make. On the one hand you've got an amazingly well built, well engineered aluminum frame from a company that's been at it for decades. On the other hand you have a carbon frame from a company/manufacturer nobody seems to really know a lot about. I would simply echo what robpar said - it's not a high end frame and won't ride like one, but it is a decent frame. I don't regret having purchased it and wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. However, if you have the chance to get the Caad9 go for it. You won't regret it. If you want a decent frame that you can get for a steal of a price go for the carbon. You probably won't regret that either.


----------



## kable

MercuryMan76 said:


> Ok, I can get in on this one. I bought the pseudo Kredo frame from ebay seller bicycle_999 about 6 months ago and built it up with SRAM Rival. Here's the original thread I did on it:
> 
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=173378
> 
> I also bought a 2009 Caad9-6 about two months ago and I dumped all the crap components and built it up with a mix of Ultegra 6700 and SRAM Red components. After putting in some time on both I can easily say the Caad9 is much stiffer than the ebay carbon. In my opinion the ebay frame has a lot of lateral flex when compared to the Caad9. The stiffness of the Caad9 also gives it a "faster" feeling so to speak...the power transfer seems to be much more efficient on the Caad9, especially when you're sprinting. I'm not saying the ebay frame is scary, I've gotten it up to 48mph on descents comfortably and it does fine. And you can build it up pretty light. I haven't weighed mine but I'm guessing it's around 17lbs or less on a 52cm frame. It also absorbs the road well too...I don't feel as beat up on as I do after riding the Caad9.
> 
> Overall it's almost an unfair comparison to make. On the one hand you've got an amazingly well built, well engineered aluminum frame from a company that's been at it for decades. On the other hand you have a carbon frame from a company/manufacturer nobody seems to really know a lot about. I would simply echo what robpar said - it's not a high end frame and won't ride like one, but it is a decent frame. I don't regret having purchased it and wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. However, if you have the chance to get the Caad9 go for it. You won't regret it. If you want a decent frame that you can get for a steal of a price go for the carbon. You probably won't regret that either.


Thanks mecuryman, your response helped me very much and is much appreciated.


----------



## robpar

Zuckerkorn said:


> It's pseudo Kuota Kredo right?


 It was this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Full-Carbon...2BUA%2BFICS%2BUFI&otn=10&ps=63#ht_2478wt_1062

There are three or four ebay sellers selling basically three/four types of frames. From what I can tell each seller sells the SAME three or four types of the same frame. Just slightly different sizes, geo, tube shapes. Also two types of fork and two types of seat posts... I went for the geo that seemed to fit me the best, I'm assuming all frames will ride more or less the same but I could be wrong.
I would buy the one you LIKE and fits and don't worry too much about it. The frame I got, when compared to ... say... Cervelo RS is not even close or Giant Defy Advanced but like I said, you are comparing a $400 frame to a $1800-$2000 one. The frame rides good, smooth, not as responsive (or quick) as my Giant TCR C but I don't race so my needs are different and I was not expecting it to be great; IT'S an OK FRAME.
Would I buy it again? probably not but then I would not be looking for a budget frame the next time either....


----------



## newmexrb1

What, there is no Santa Claus? OTOH from what I have read re blind testing of frames/materials, I'm skeptical re the claim that a) all the frames ride more or less the same _and_ b) That there is a "large" difference between no-name and branded frame of identical geometry. 

I have no axe to grind here or even skin in the game at this point. My skepticism is borne of too many similarities between bikes and highend stereo, both of which seem to suffer from a disproportionate placebo effect. There is no way I believe my budget Taiwan amplifier sounds as good as my Classe (Canadian high end brand) monoblocks which cost 30 times as much. I might buy the Taiwanese amp as a "for grins" experiment, but when push came to shove would it or could it touch the palpability and textured nuance of the big amps? Unfortunately, the answer is yes, especially when unknowingly I think I am listening to expensive amp, when my friend in cruel but interesting experiment, switched the two w/o my knowledge.

I cannot say that Robpar is delusional. His perceptions may be right on the money, but I would love to know if anyone here has ridden a clone and the branded/blingy original, _without owning _either. 

Again, no personal attack is intended here, just another POV, based on experiences in another hobby altogether--but one which seems to suffer from the same reliance on subjective impressions and all the inherent human foibles. That the e-bay cheapo is much different from CAAD-9, I have little doubt. What I would love to hear about is someone who has the 015 and has ridden the Ridley or Cube which appears to be the same frame. Maybe Santa Claus does exist after all?  Or maybe not. :cryin:


----------



## Synchronicity

Not worth it. I bought two Hasa full carbon frames earlier this year.

I had a Hasa fork break after being rented out only 61 days. That caused a pretty spectacular frame failure on this 55cm bike:





































Now I get another phonecall from another client today saying that both chainstays have cracked on the 57cm version. After checking the booking sheet, I see that it has only been rented out 60 days.

More photos to follow of failure 2/2...

Neeedless to say - *I'm totally abandoning this brand*.


----------



## Tim_D

Ouch.

Who did you buy them off?


----------



## svend

Synchronicity said:


> Not worth it. I bought two Hasa full carbon frames earlier this year.
> 
> I had a Hasa fork break after being rented out only 61 days. That caused a pretty spectacular frame failure on this 55cm bike:
> Neeedless to say - *I'm totally abandoning this brand*.


you get what you pay for springs to mind... would I feel safe on a 50mph descent on one of those frames....never in a million years


----------



## Dutch77

Synchronicity said:


> Not worth it. I bought two Hasa full carbon frames earlier this year.
> 
> I had a Hasa fork break after being rented out only 61 days. That caused a pretty spectacular frame failure on this 55cm bike:


OTOH, people are never gentle on rentals. Do you rent out "regular" (ie well known brands) bikes as well?


----------



## robpar

newmexrb1 said:


> What, there is no Santa Claus? OTOH from what I have read re blind testing of frames/materials, I'm skeptical re the claim that a) all the frames ride more or less the same _and_ b) That there is a "large" difference between no-name and branded frame of identical geometry.


I said: I assume they ride about the same but I could be wrong. I believe they are the same carbon, probably same factory. Variations are some tube shapes, geo and size. The most immediate difference from some of the higher end frames I've ridden is the NOISE. I think other manufacturers have foam or something inside the tubes? EVERYTHING resonates inside these tubes. My TCR C is not noisy at all.
DESIGN: visually not as pleasing to the eye (not a big deal for some, but I pay attention to that) the transitions from different tube shapes are not as smooth as other frames I've seen and liked. This was very had to tell from a picture but not a huge deal.
Not as "quick" as my TCR; these EBAY frame/forks have a bigger trail so they react (steering) a little slower (45mm vs 43mm) again not a huge factor for some but I can notice it. 
Downtube barrel adjusters: At first I thought: great, but after some miles they started to rattle (I hate rattles) so I got rid of them. 
Seat post: Took a while to figure what the heck was a making a constant grinding noise... the seat post bottom was rubbing on the inside of seat tube. Chopped about 2 inches off. Same length seat post as my TCR but it does not make any funky noises.
So, in short, other than those "subjective" issues like "smooth", "stiff", "responsive" etc... those frames have a few quality control issues when assembled as a complete bike. At least the one I bought did, BUT I am not complaining; I kinda expected it. This frame is now my "trash around/rain" frame. I like it much better than my old ALUm frame.

In my mind, there a few quality issues between a higher end frame and these frames. You just have to be aware of them. I bought my TCr C as a frameset and never had any issues when I built it up.

Hope this clarifies my POV


----------



## jmarteijn

robpar said:


> I said: I assume they ride about the same but I could be wrong. I believe they are the same carbon, probably same factory. Variations are some tube shapes, geo and size. The most immediate difference from some of the higher end frames I've ridden is the NOISE. I think other manufacturers have foam or something inside the tubes? EVERYTHING resonates inside these tubes. My TCR C is not noisy at all.
> DESIGN: visually not as pleasing to the eye (not a big deal for some, but I pay attention to that) the transitions from different tube shapes are not as smooth as other frames I've seen and liked. This was very had to tell from a picture but not a huge deal.
> Not as "quick" as my TCR; these EBAY frame/forks have a bigger trail so they react (steering) a little slower (45mm vs 43mm) again not a huge factor for some but I can notice it.
> Downtube barrel adjusters: At first I thought: great, but after some miles they started to rattle (I hate rattles) so I got rid of them.
> Seat post: Took a while to figure what the heck was a making a constant grinding noise... the seat post bottom was rubbing on the inside of seat tube. Chopped about 2 inches off. Same length seat post as my TCR but it does not make any funky noises.
> So, in short, other than those "subjective" issues like "smooth", "stiff", "responsive" etc... those frames have a few quality control issues when assembled as a complete bike. At least the one I bought did, BUT I am not complaining; I kinda expected it. This frame is now my "trash around/rain" frame. I like it much better than my old ALUm frame.
> 
> In my mind, there a few quality issues between a higher end frame and these frames. You just have to be aware of them. I bought my TCr C as a frameset and never had any issues when I built it up.
> 
> Hope this clarifies my POV


Just ordered the Full Carbon Road Bike Frame 54cm with carbon fork on ebay from seller : 88bikefun.
Will see if the frame meets my expectations,, more than i own a Alu bike from Focus and hope this one will perform better.
Planning to build it up with Shimano Ultergra 6700 or Shimano SL 6500.

Reading the above i have my doubts


----------



## JusP-29er

Its seem that everyone is got either the pseudo Kuota Kredo or the Fm0015.. Did any1 brought the fm 004 or fm 006 frameset from hongfu? was thinking abt the 004 frameset from hongfu


----------



## robpar

jmarteijn said:


> Just ordered the Full Carbon Road Bike Frame 54cm with carbon fork on ebay from seller : 88bikefun.
> Will see if the frame meets my expectations,, more than i own a Alu bike from Focus and hope this one will perform better.
> Planning to build it up with Shimano Ultergra 6700 or Shimano SL 6500.
> 
> Reading the above i have my doubts


I think you'll be happy. The frame is NOT a POS; for the money, you can't beat it! 
Similar frames will cost you a lot more... like Motobecane Immortal, Pedal force, Bottechia, Scattante, Fezzari and many others.

I was just trying to make the point that you can't compare these frames to high end frames... Sorry if I discouraged you....

Enjoy!


----------



## jmarteijn

robpar said:


> I think you'll be happy. The frame is NOT a POS; for the money, you can't beat it!
> Similar frames will cost you a lot more... like Motobecane Immortal, Pedal force, Bottechia, Scattante, Fezzari and many others.
> 
> I was just trying to make the point that you can't compare these frames to high end frames... Sorry if I discouraged you....
> 
> Enjoy!


I'm aware this frame can't be compared to high end frames e.d. Pinarello, Cervello., but hope it can beat the regular high end Alu frames or the one i recent have. Than i will be very happy.
Will climb the Mont ventoux in 2010 and hopefully this frame will not let me down
Will wait and see what the results will be.


----------



## rook

Synchronicity said:


> Not worth it. I bought two Hasa full carbon frames earlier this year.
> 
> I had a Hasa fork break after being rented out only 61 days. That caused a pretty spectacular frame failure on this 55cm bike:




Don't rule out that your rental customer may also have caused that. Seriously. I had a friend who had an identical looking failure on his Trek Madone. He basically removed the front wheel and clamped the bike on top of a roof rack of his car. And accidentally drove it part way into his garage before he heard the big crack. Backed out the car and saw that there was damage to the headtube area and the fork forward at the steerer almost identical to the way your picture shows.


----------



## stevesbike

maybe, though most people renting a bike probably don't have a roof rack with them - looks more like an alloy-steerer/carbon junction failure. Forks are hard to design and manufacturer well (look at the issues even high end fork companies have like Reynolds and True Temper). I wouldn't ride one slapped together with no Q/C.


----------



## Zuckerkorn

I just put a stop on my order. Way too many cons accumulated with these frames and purchase process. 

I will be hunting used high end brand frames throughout the winter on CL, Ebay , etc. If nothing comes up till spring I might reconsider again.


----------



## newmexrb1

robpar said:


> I said: I assume they ride about the same but I could be wrong. I believe they are the same carbon, probably same factory. Variations are some tube shapes, geo and size. The most immediate difference from some of the higher end frames I've ridden is the NOISE. I think other manufacturers have foam or something inside the tubes? EVERYTHING resonates inside these tubes. My TCR C is not noisy at all.
> DESIGN: visually not as pleasing to the eye (not a big deal for some, but I pay attention to that) the transitions from different tube shapes are not as smooth as other frames I've seen and liked. This was very had to tell from a picture but not a huge deal.
> Not as "quick" as my TCR; these EBAY frame/forks have a bigger trail so they react (steering) a little slower (45mm vs 43mm) again not a huge factor for some but I can notice it.
> Downtube barrel adjusters: At first I thought: great, but after some miles they started to rattle (I hate rattles) so I got rid of them.
> Seat post: Took a while to figure what the heck was a making a constant grinding noise... the seat post bottom was rubbing on the inside of seat tube. Chopped about 2 inches off. Same length seat post as my TCR but it does not make any funky noises.
> So, in short, other than those "subjective" issues like "smooth", "stiff", "responsive" etc... those frames have a few quality control issues when assembled as a complete bike. At least the one I bought did, BUT I am not complaining; I kinda expected it. This frame is now my "trash around/rain" frame. I like it much better than my old ALUm frame.
> 
> In my mind, there a few quality issues between a higher end frame and these frames. You just have to be aware of them. I bought my TCr C as a frameset and never had any issues when I built it up.
> 
> Hope this clarifies my POV


It does indeed. And i especially appreciate that you didn't take it as a personal attack. I'm just trying like many of the guys on the fence, to decide whether to go low $$, spend a bit more and get a branded, waranteed frame from a US based company like Velocite available thru these guys. or do like Zuckerkorn and bail, focusing instead on finding a high end frame thru the usual sources. I absolutely believe that you get what you pay for is tripe when it comes to bikes. Unless one doesn't mind paying for prestige/piece of mind w/o regard to bang for buck. Thats anathema to this cheapskate soul. The whole premise of this thread and many like it is based on bang for buck. 
I absolutely agree tho that Santa Claus doesn't exist annd anyone thinking they are getting an exact copy of a 2000-3000 frame for $350 to 450 is likely delusional. So the rough edges is not unexpected. The noise factor is interesting--so far, no one else has made mention of resonance issues. I wonder why the difference--certainly failed frame photos abound on these pages and I have ever seen stuffing of any type. That doesn't mean that they are not sprayed with some kind of viscoelastic dampening material like that used in industry and car auto installs. So the input has been most welcome in trying to determine what exactly the tradeoffs are.... Thanks.


----------



## chocy

Robpar

I agree with you on those issues with the psuedo Kredo frame. It is NOT high end but at the same time it was about par or slightly better than fuji carbon (Professional 2.0) I have to say though Hong-fu frame is better. Bu how much? I have no idea. I have no experience with the high end bike such as colnago, parlee, or Pinarello. so I will not pretend like it is up to par. But steering, noise and all that is much better with Hong-fu. Personally I have searched the web for good deals on used bike. But in general it is much harder to find the just right frame for you, when you are locked into what comes out. It is almost impossible to get the right , frame size, components. etc. Anyway I have no regrets buying any of these frames. It gives me a peace of mind that if I mess it up, I didn't lose too much. 

For me Psuedo Kredo was reliable enough for 4000miles. until I crashed and even then I rode home with cracked frame. 

So in conclusion, I think these frames will also develope as hong fu frame offeres better bike when compapred to psuedo Kredo, and I see it as an awsome bang for the buck. however it may not be for you if you are searching for that absolute best carbon frame in the world.


----------



## stevesbike

there's a happy medium between bargain basement ebay carbon and top drawer high end frames - OEM companies like Pedal Force, Rossetti etc source their frames from well-known manufacturers (like ADK), source with high modulus carbon fiber (you can tell by the weight differences - most of the ebay carbon fiber bikes are as heavy as alloy frames), and there's a company that's likely to exist tomorrow (with representatives in the US) for a warranty. I'm not affiliated with any of these companies - just think it's worthwhile distinguishing between a cheap frame and a value one....

There's a big myth circulating that all carbon frames are sourced from a few factories. This may have had some truth to it 5 years ago, but there has been an explosion of carbon manufacturing in mainland China. I suspect most ebay frames are coming from these factories that have very little quality control or accumulated expertise in carbon frame manufacturing.


----------



## newmexrb1

There may be a happy medium. There may be even a happier medium where the lightest bike is not the best. And so far as I can tell we haven't been able to hone in on the single most important question. I don't subscribe to the view that a 900 gm frame made from stiffer carbon is necessarily better than a 1200 gm frame from lower stiffness material. If this were true, I'd just buy aluminum. This is where the marketing forces enter the equation: brand a must be better than brand B cuz it's lighter, I don't buy it. Sure B may be cheaper to produce, high-mod CF is pricey.My point is we all seem to believe that the lighter frame is "better." May ride like a rock and sacrifice all the properties you sought in CF in the first place. This is what I'm talking about--comparing bikes of similar geometry ridden by the same rider who has no bias. I see no data to support the conclusion--the one dissenter has owned name brand frames and found it lacking. That the emperor may have no clothes is always a hard sell....


----------



## MercuryMan76

stevesbike said:


> there's a happy medium between bargain basement ebay carbon and top drawer high end frames - OEM companies like Pedal Force, Rossetti etc source their frames from well-known manufacturers (like ADK), source with high modulus carbon fiber (you can tell by the weight differences - most of the ebay carbon fiber bikes are as heavy as alloy frames), and there's a company that's likely to exist tomorrow (with representatives in the US) for a warranty. I'm not affiliated with any of these companies - just think it's worthwhile distinguishing between a cheap frame and a value one....
> 
> There's a big myth circulating that all carbon frames are sourced from a few factories. This may have had some truth to it 5 years ago, but there has been an explosion of carbon manufacturing in mainland China. I suspect most ebay frames are coming from these factories that have very little quality control or accumulated expertise in carbon frame manufacturing.


Don't take this personally but I just find it ironic that you're constantly criticizing these frames or doubting the quality control of the manufacturers/sellers when just a month ago you were asking questions about what appears to be a Taiwanese made TT frame that you were interested in reselling here in the States. Maybe I misinterpreted something here...

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=189208


----------



## stevesbike

like I said earlier re pedalforce/Rossetti, I'm not criticizing Asian carbon manufacturing - I just think it's important to do some due diligence and find out something about where a frame comes from. Contrary to a lot of opinion here, there are large variances in the quality of frames coming from China and Taiwan. A friend of mine is starting a new team and is sourcing frames for it - we were looking at Interbike and scouring the web - there are a lot of interesting frames around, but the wholesale volume price is higher than the ones on ebay by at least $250. I ended up not liking the TT frame I asked about in the other post due to limitations of its sizing - am currently looking at a TT frame from rts carbon http://www.rtscarbon.com/ Without too much work you can find it rebranded under some good names...


----------



## Zuckerkorn

btw, today I recieved pricelist from the company called sunday-trading, with whole banch of previously unseen frames. 
FM 007, 008, 009, 010, 012, 013, 027 and FM-R830SL (apparently 820g)
http://shangding.en.alibaba.com/

Update: very expensive distributor.


----------



## JusP-29er

hi, i need some advice on choosing the road frame from hongfu bike.. As i have been riding a 29er SS bike with drop bar(midge bar) and now i'm in the market for a roadie SS.. But i have no idea wat to choose. Spent 2 day reading various forum regarding ebay frame and i think hongfu seem to be the best quality ebay frame, now i'm struck between choosing a Kuota Kredo aka. HF-FM001 frame(https://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Upload/Pic/2009719195249274.jpg) which is a compact frame from wat i have gather from reading this post and a HF-FM004 frame(https://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Upload/Pic/2009719205348180.jpg). Should i choose the more compact frame HF-FM001 or the tradition HR-FM004? Wat is the differences between these 2?


----------



## newmexrb1

stevesbike said:


> like I said earlier re pedalforce/Rossetti, I'm not criticizing Asian carbon manufacturing - I just think it's important to do some due diligence and find out something about where a frame comes from. Contrary to a lot of opinion here, there are large variances in the quality of frames coming from China and Taiwan. A friend of mine is starting a new team and is sourcing frames for it - we were looking at Interbike and scouring the web - there are a lot of interesting frames around, but the wholesale volume price is higher than the ones on ebay by at least $250. I ended up not liking the TT frame I asked about in the other post due to limitations of its sizing - am currently looking at a TT frame from rts carbon http://www.rtscarbon.com/ Without too much work you can find it rebranded under some good names...






PHP:


cContrary to a lot of opinion here, there are large variances in the quality of frames coming from China and Taiwan.

No doubt--so how does one know when to spend 4 times as much for a branded fame or take a chance?. Can we determine vs cosmetics, breakability, or reports from the readers?

I would just hate to think that forums such as these are being invaded by industry schills. I have seem this happen elsewhere and am worried that guys and gals just sharing experience are no longer being guided by honest reports. I hope I am wrong. If so, please list specifics....


----------



## rook

Zuckerkorn said:


> I just put a stop on my order. Way too many cons accumulated with these frames and purchase process.
> 
> I will be hunting used high end brand frames throughout the winter on CL, Ebay , etc. If nothing comes up till spring I might reconsider again.



Good choice. We should also welcome all the new posters to this thread. I have a feeling they won't be joining too many other discussions.


----------



## Rob81

Sometimes (or more likely OFTEN) you pay more of what you get.

Do you need an example?
https://www.prestigio.sm
I've no safe sources but it costs around 3500€ (frame kit)
Now look for that SAME framekit on alibaba............and you can buy 10 of them for the same price........

Spot the differences 

3500€ (5000$)









~350€ (500$)









Impressive, ah?


----------



## jmarteijn

I hope the, Full Carbon Road Bike Frame 54cm with carbon fork on ebay from seller 88bikefun, won't let me down when climbing the Mont ventoux in 2010.
Reading all the posts, i'm a bit nervous about it.

Will see once it arrives and completely build up.


----------



## Rob81

I raced on an ebay frame and well placed too in Granfondos, frames doesn't let you down, legs do....
I can only say my last accident was a broken fork (Specialized).


----------



## robpar

jmarteijn said:


> I hope the, Full Carbon Road Bike Frame 54cm with carbon fork on ebay from seller 88bikefun, won't let me down when climbing the Mont ventoux in 2010.
> Reading all the posts, i'm a bit nervous about it.
> 
> Will see once it arrives and completely build up.


Don't worry. He's a very good seller; you can return it if you're not happy. I returned one fork I did not like and he sent me another one.
Interested in hearing your comments when you ride it...


----------



## newmexrb1

Rob81 said:


> Sometimes (or more likely OFTEN) you pay more of what you get.
> 
> Do you need an example?
> http://www.prestigio.sm
> I've no safe sources but it costs around 3500€ (frame kit)
> Now look for that SAME framekit on alibaba............and you can buy 10 of them for the same price........
> 
> Spot the differences


One has wheels? LMAO--world needs more prestigio humor.


----------



## stevesbike

you cannot simply look at a picture of two of some frames and conclude they are identical because they look the same. Every vendor/manufacturer I've dealt with offers the same looking frame in various carbon layup options. For example, ADK, which is a large manufacturer offers frame options ranging from 24T carbon to 60T (these are industry standards relating to modulus etc). The hong fu frame weights that have been reported in this thread suggest it is made of a relatively low grade of CF. All I am suggesting is that you can't really judge a frame by a picture on a website...

e.g., https://adktec.myweb.hinet.net/TBG2009-2.jpg


----------



## Rob81

... but neither say you get what you pay, because most likely all CF frames are made from the same factories in "unknown" China lands. You can count on 1 hand the big brands factories which biuld frames by themselves and not just re-charge prices. Actually, most of them are Giant production with, of course, different names.
Btw, stickying with my example, 1000% increase in the price... wow those layers must be really expansive, lol.


----------



## stevesbike

I don't disagree with you that there's a lot of bloated prices out there and that with some research and looking around you can find much better values. But, it isn't true that there's only a handful of factories making carbon frames - this was partially true when production was from Taiwan, but is no longer true with the move to mainland China (been there, seen it...).


----------



## jmarteijn

Are therefore the frames coming from China from less quality then the ones from Taiwan?
I'm sill curious from what factory the frame i ordered came from and to what brand it is compared with.


----------



## stevesbike

many high-end companies like Cervelo have their frames made in China. Most high-end bike companies these days are really just design houses with no or limited in-house manufacturing (just like Nike etc). What I think gets lost in these threads is that the major costs for companies like Cervelo are product development, design, engineering, testing (and marketing). Because there are few intellectual property restrictions in China, a small carbon manufacturing plant can just buy some open molds and start making frames with little quality control or testing. The initial design of the frame could simply be a copy/modification of an existing frame. Without the need to roll product development and testing costs into the frame, obviously the costs will be much lower - what results can be a very nice, inexpensive frame or junk. It's no accident that a lot of the ebay sellers also sell knock-off cycling clothing - it's a similar business strategy. Most of the knock off clothing looks like the real thing, but is junk. Who knows about the frames...

http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2008/01/cervelos-compete-on-quality-strategy.html


----------



## ru1-2cycle

*Imho*



stevesbike said:


> many high-end companies like Cervelo have their frames made in China. Most high-end bike companies these days are really just design houses with no or limited in-house manufacturing (just like Nike etc). What I think gets lost in these threads is that the major costs for companies like Cervelo are product development, design, engineering, testing (and marketing). Because there are few intellectual property restrictions in China, a small carbon manufacturing plant can just buy some open molds and start making frames with little quality control or testing. The initial design of the frame could simply be a copy/modification of an existing frame. Without the need to roll product development and testing costs into the frame, obviously the costs will be much lower - what results can be a very nice, inexpensive frame or junk. It's no accident that a lot of the ebay sellers also sell knock-off cycling clothing - it's a similar business strategy. Most of the knock off clothing looks like the real thing, but is junk. Who knows about the frames...
> 
> http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2008/01/cervelos-compete-on-quality-strategy.html


I would like to advocate for the China/Taiwan carbon road frames. I owned a Tommaso Aggraziato and my latest is the carbon frame from ebay seller bicycle_999. The frame is so gorgeous and flawless that my LBS owner and avid road racer, and also frame builder, has started purchasing from various Chinese carbon builders so he can can sell a decent bike in this recession and make a profit without ripping off cycling enthusiasts that can not afford the extravagant prices from the most popular branded frames. I ride hard and the frame delivers performance and comfort that is very rewarding. I have a Masi and Gios, both fit and ride great, but I still prefer to ride Chinese carbon anytime.


----------



## newmexrb1

ru1-2cycle said:


> I would like to advocate for the China/Taiwan carbon road frames. I owned a Tommaso Aggraziato and my latest is the carbon frame from ebay seller bicycle_999. The frame is so gorgeous and flawless that my LBS owner and avid road racer, and also frame builder, has started purchasing from various Chinese carbon builders so he can can sell a decent bike in this recession and make a profit without ripping off cycling enthusiasts that can not afford the extravagant prices from the most popular branded frames. I ride hard and the frame delivers performance and comfort that is very rewarding. I have a Masi and Gios, both fit and ride great, but I still prefer to ride Chinese carbon anytime.


Schill-who would have known that 653 posts were only cover for your real intent--to sell cheap crap, no-value frames to unsuspecting idiots.


----------



## ru1-2cycle

*...*



newmexrb1 said:


> Schill-who would have known that 653 posts were only cover for your real intent--to sell cheap crap, no-value frames to unsuspecting idiots.


...crappy answer...disagree dude, your attitude is crappy, you would not make a good salesman. I like my China carbon frame!


----------



## Tim_D

Hmmm. 

Sarcasm, anyone?


----------



## robpar

jmarteijn said:


> Are therefore the frames coming from China from less quality then the ones from Taiwan?
> I'm sill curious from what factory the frame i ordered came from and to what brand it is compared with.


If it's any consolation: Yesterday I did a century and many riders were admiring the frame. A friend asked to ride for a few miles (he rides a Ridley); at the next rest stop we switched back and he thought it was great. he wanted to know where I got it; I told him it was a custom carbon  
I did mentioned to him the noise issue, but when i was riding his bike, it was also noisy. 
At the end of ride I told him it was a carbon clone and he could not believe it.
So who knows:


----------



## jmarteijn

robpar said:


> If it's any consolation: Yesterday I did a century and many riders were admiring the frame. A friend asked to ride for a few miles (he rides a Ridley); at the next rest stop we switched back and he thought it was great. he wanted to know where I got it; I told him it was a custom carbon
> I did mentioned to him the noise issue, but when i was riding his bike, it was also noisy.
> At the end of ride I told him it was a carbon clone and he could not believe it.
> So who knows:


Thanks,

This give me more confidence of the ordered frame.
Planning to build it up with a new Shimano Ultegra SL groupe.


----------



## Rob81

I can confirm that the 2 frames I posted above (5000 vs 500 $) are EXACTLY the same, not just from the look.

Contacted by an italian customer StreinBike answered they cannot ship to private here until January 2010 because they have an agrement with Prestigio! 
Lmao to a frame that values 500$ (or less) and it's sold for 10x its real price!


----------



## fab4

*Hong Fu Carbon Frame*

Here's my Hong Fu carbon frameset all built up with Forte (Microshift) group from Performance, SRAM Force BB30 crankset,Tektro brakes, 3T alloy bar and stem, SRAM Rival cassette, Fulcrum racing 1 wheelset, Wellgo pedals. Bike weights 16.87 lbs as pictured. Bike would be a lighter if built with Red, Super Record, or Dura ace.


----------



## athletic91

great job fab4 , whats the size?

would look better with clear tape at the cable fub spots.

hmm now its time to slap on some cervelo decals


----------



## fab4

Thanks. It's a 55cm. I agree a clear fame protectors will look better. I have them on order.


----------



## robpar

Nice bike.
How do you like the Forte STI's? can you tell us how they compare to...say... Ultegra?


----------



## athletic91

fab4 said:


> Thanks. It's a 55cm. I agree a clear fame protectors will look better. I have them on order.


the front center looks pretty short. i have ordered a 51 and am worried about toe rub with the front wheel


----------



## independentmind

A couple of people purchased the carbon handlebars along with their frames. Can anyone confirm the actual weight of the bars for me? They're listed at 240g on hong-fu and ebay.

fab4: nice build, from what i understand those shifters are compatible with ultegra


----------



## PLAYONIT

independentmind said:


> A couple of people purchased the carbon handlebars along with their frames. Can anyone confirm the actual weight of the bars for me? They're listed at 240g on hong-fu and ebay.
> 
> fab4: nice build, from what i understand those shifters are compatible with ultegra



I get 238gms for the HB-002 bars........


----------



## fab4

The Forte Microshift shifters are Shimano 10sp compatible so you can use 105, Ultegra, or Dura ace derailleurs and cassette. You can also use SRAM 10sp cassette as long as your rear hub is compatible. Shifting is different it's like a cross between Shimano and Campy. There are two shifting mechanism and they are both independent from the brake levers so you don't accidentaly brake when your shifting. The long lever is used to upshift and the short lever is used to down shift. Shifting performance is very precise and accurate. The front derailleur shift with less effort compared to my SRAM Rival.You can also upshift 2 to 3 gears in one swing. Ergonomics wise it's very similar to Shimano as well. I'm not sure about long term durability but so far I like them.


----------



## vaetuning

*Great looking Bike*



fab4 said:


> The Forte Microshift shifters are Shimano 10sp compatible so you can use 105, Ultegra, or Dura ace derailleurs and cassette. You can also use SRAM 10sp cassette as long as your rear hub is compatible. Shifting is different it's like a cross between Shimano and Campy. There are two shifting mechanism and they are both independent from the brake levers so you don't accidentaly brake when your shifting. The long lever is used to upshift and the short lever is used to down shift. Shifting performance is very precise and accurate. The front derailleur shift with less effort compared to my SRAM Rival.You can also upshift 2 to 3 gears in one swing. Ergonomics wise it's very similar to Shimano as well. I'm not sure about long term durability but so far I like them.


Hi fab4

That's a cool looking bike!!

I'm glad to hear that the Microshift components seem to work as intended, as I'm going for the complete Sunrace Driven Red NRZ groupset on my 55cm 015-SPL.

Have you got any driving / handling impressions you would like to share with us??

How much does the Hong fu seat clamp weigh??

How much does your saddle weigh??

Do you know the weight off your stem and bar??

My frame and accessories is shipping out from Hong Fu today - so I'm pretty hyped right now!!

Cheers


----------



## independentmind

PLAYONIT said:


> I get 238gms for the HB-002 bars........


Thanks for coming through for me


----------



## independentmind

vaetuning said:


> Hi fab4
> 
> How much does the Hong fu seat clamp weigh??
> 
> How much does your saddle weigh??
> 
> Do you know the weight off your stem and bar??
> 
> Cheers


For generic parts like the 3T stem and bar you can just go here http://weightweenies.starbike.com/listings.php


----------



## chocy

A bit more ride report.

Now I have done a few usuall 9W ride including 43 MPH downhill that I love so much and many 30+ MPH sprints. 
The bike is absolutely perfect. It does everything well. Very stable and, corners with confidence at any speed. 

I also got a few compliments on the bike on the road any 9W is full of boutique bikes. (seven, Guru, serrotta to Cervelo, you name it we have it) 

Also I had no issue with toe overlap despite its short wheelbase. (may be I am used to toe overflap now?) I am extreamly happpy with the bike. It is clearly better value than psuedo Kredo frame (not that that frame is bad or anything Hongfu 015 is just better)

fab4 your bike also looks awsome. I am sure you will like the ride.

independentmind, my handle bar from 88bikefun is 220grame. very light and nice.


----------



## robpar

fab4 said:


> Here's my Hong Fu carbon frameset all built up with Forte (Microshift) group from Performance, SRAM Force BB30 crankset,Tektro brakes, 3T alloy bar and stem, SRAM Rival cassette, Fulcrum racing 1 wheelset, Wellgo pedals. Bike weights 16.87 lbs as pictured. Bike would be a lighter if built with Red, Super Record, or Dura ace.


Sorry to bug you. What paint finish did you get? is it clear coated or just paint. I really like your frame; it's so much more visually refined than mine (ebay frame). How do you like the geometry? I'm 5' 9 1/4 tall with a 34 1/4 inseam... so i'm thinking the 55 cm frame.
is the top tube 550 mm measured horizontally? virtual dimension? or center to center.
What's your saddle to handlebar drop?
Thanks! sorry to bug you with questions...


----------



## Rob81

About frame FM015
How much is the difference in height between the "seatpost" provided and a Ritchey Stubby? Which you'd suggest if the aim is to have the minimum possible height from the end of the vertical tube and seat rails?


----------



## velomateo

My hongfu non-ISP frame showed up yesterday, which was cool because it was also my birthday. I got a 55cm in matte finish and it is sweeeet. None of the issues I had with my other, ebay purchased, China frame. I started to build it up, but ran out of steam and will have to finish it up tonight. I will put pictures up asap. BTW, Jenny emailed tracking number on Saturday and the frame was delivered to California on Tuesday, pretty quick.


----------



## newmexrb1

velomateo said:


> My hongfu non-ISP frame showed up yesterday, which was cool because it was also my birthday. I got a 55cm in matte finish and it is sweeeet. None of the issues I had with my other, ebay purchased, China frame. I started to build it up, but ran out of steam and will have to finish it up tonight. I will put pictures up asap. BTW, Jenny emailed tracking number on Saturday and the frame was delivered to California on Tuesday, pretty quick.


Happy birthday, and seems like the more we hear, the better the Hong-Fu stacks up.


----------



## velomateo

Okay men, the assembly is complete and the first ride has been logged. My first impression of the frame, as I removed it from the box, was that it looked awesome. I ordered the matte finish and I am very pleased. The headset hongfu provides is actually quite good and they also included an extra replaceable drop-out, without even asking. The frame construction is very nice...no misaligned forks or sloppy bearing races. My bike built with a full SRAM Force group and Easton 90 SL wheels weighs in at just over 16 lb.s with pedals. I have been riding my 86 Eddy Merkx Corsa for the last six weeks since delivering my other carbon bike, that is pictured in this thread, to my son at school so losing six pounds of bike weight was nice.
The bike rides very nice, silent, no creeks of any kind. Excellent power transfer from the bottom bracket...it has a very solid feel. Handling is not quick, just very stable. My Merckx is much quicker. All in all I am very pleased and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend one to friend. 
<a href="https://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/matte%20black/?action=view&current=hongfu002.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/matte%20black/hongfu002.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="https://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/matte%20black/?action=view&current=hongfu003.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/matte%20black/hongfu003.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="https://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/matte%20black/?action=view&current=hongfu004.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/matte%20black/hongfu004.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="https://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/matte%20black/?action=view&current=hongfu006.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/matte%20black/hongfu006.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="https://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/matte%20black/?action=view&current=hongfu007.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/matte%20black/hongfu007.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


----------



## fab4

velomateo said:


> Okay men, the assembly is complete and the first ride has been logged. My first impression of the frame, as I removed it from the box, was that it looked awesome. I ordered the matte finish and I am very pleased. The headset hongfu provides is actually quite good and they also included an extra replaceable drop-out, without even asking. The frame construction is very nice...no misaligned forks or sloppy bearing races. My bike built with a full SRAM Force group and Easton 90 SL wheels weighs in at just over 16 lb.s with pedals. I have been riding my 86 Eddy Merkx Corsa for the last six weeks since delivering my other carbon bike, that is pictured in this thread, to my son at school so losing six pounds of bike weight was nice.
> The bike rides very nice, silent, no creeks of any kind. Excellent power transfer from the bottom bracket...it has a very solid feel. Handling is not quick, just very stable. My Merckx is much quicker. All in all I am very pleased and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend one to friend.
> <a href="https://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/matte%20black/?action=view&current=hongfu002.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/matte%20black/hongfu002.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
> <a href="https://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/matte%20black/?action=view&current=hongfu003.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/matte%20black/hongfu003.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
> <a href="https://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/matte%20black/?action=view&current=hongfu004.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/matte%20black/hongfu004.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
> <a href="https://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/matte%20black/?action=view&current=hongfu006.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/matte%20black/hongfu006.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
> <a href="https://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/matte%20black/?action=view&current=hongfu007.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/matte%20black/hongfu007.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


Wow! Your bike looks like a stealth fighter. Looks better than my ISP. How much does it weight as pictured. Ride it hard.


----------



## asad137

Holy crap. That matte carbon is too sexy. Best looking frame I've seen in any of these import frame threads.

Asad


----------



## velomateo

Thanks. 

Weight as pictured is 16.3 lb.s.


----------



## Zuckerkorn

Very nice! Congrats! 
Good to see you had no problems with fork clearance and paint blemishes.


----------



## Breomonkey

Can't wait for mine. Coming in Feb. I took a gamble and went with the UD finish not seeing any pics of it yet. This really has me wondering what a UD in matte would look like. Worst case, I guess I give it a paint job. 

Anybody order the 88mm rims from Jenny yet? I'd really like to get a closer look at some photos.


----------



## vaetuning

*Stealth Carbon 015*

Hi Velomateo

Very, very beatiful!!:thumbsup: 

What size is your frame??

Cheers


----------



## fab4

newmexrb1 said:


> Happy birthday, and seems like the more we hear, the better the Hong-Fu stacks up.


Congratulations! When you get a chance post pictures of your frame. Would like to see what a matte frame looks like.


----------



## Tommy919

Zuckerkorn said:


> Very nice! Congrats!
> Good to see you had no problems with fork clearance and paint blemishes.



If you order a ebay frame go with Hongfu. Seems to have the best frames compared to other ebay frame dealers.


----------



## Tim_D

Mateo, thanks for that. First time I've seen a non-ISP version (which is what I've ordered, 3K gloss). Mine ships on 16th Nov.

Can't wait!

What size is yours, BTW? 55?


----------



## velomateo

Tim_D said:


> Mateo, thanks for that. First time I've seen a non-ISP version (which is what I've ordered, 3K gloss). Mine ships on 16th Nov.
> 
> Can't wait!
> 
> What size is yours, BTW? 55?


Mine is a 55cm. I may have been able to do a 53cm, but was concerned I would be at the very top of it limits. I ride a 57 in classic geometry, my Eddy Merckx is a 56 but has a good bit of seat post showing and I use 135 stem. I very comfortable on the 55 (w/120mm stem) but I wouldn't recommend it for anyone less than 5'-9" tall. I am very happy with my choice to go with the non-ISP frame. I wanted to have the option to travel with this bike and the ISP would not go into a bike case - something others may want to consider.
I hope that the close up shots help out, the hongfu site doesn't provide a lot of detail shots and it can be difficult to drop hundreds of dollars on something unseen. If anyone would like any specific close-up shots just let me know, I am happy to provide them.


----------



## PLAYONIT

velomateo said:


> Mine is a 55cm. I may have been able to do a 53cm, but was concerned I would be at the very top of it limits. I ride a 57 in classic geometry, my Eddy Merckx is a 56 but has a good bit of seat post showing and I use 135 stem. I very comfortable on the 55 (w/120mm stem) but I wouldn't recommend it for anyone less than 5'-9" tall. I am very happy with my choice to go with the non-ISP frame. I wanted to have the option to travel with this bike and the ISP would not go into a bike case - something others may want to consider.
> I hope that the close up shots help out, the hongfu site doesn't provide a lot of detail shots and it can be difficult to drop hundreds of dollars on something unseen. If anyone would like any specific close-up shots just let me know, I am happy to provide them.


Looks great!!!!!!! The image of the rear brake cable where it exits the top tube looks very clean.... Is that a sleeve you fashioned that the cable exits from? I am doing my brakes tonight and thought that looks like the way to go.....


----------



## chocy

Mateo 

Wow yours look really awsome, that matt finish is sweet.

I agree with the stable handling assement. It is super stable at any speed. I think it may be the reason the handle does not feel as quick but stabiliy helps with more precise handling IMHO.

I agree that ISP can be an issue if you travel with the bike. As for me I am too young to have the wealth to travel with the bike as of yet.  So ISP does not bother me. but if you do travel non ISP version of this frame looks very nice.

PLAYONIT: I think you do have to use the cable end sleeve on all ends to make it fit. I am not sure what you were planning on before.. But mine is done the same way.
I can't wait to see your bike done with those sweet wheels...


----------



## PLAYONIT

chocy said:


> Mateo
> 
> Wow yours look really awsome, that matt finish is sweet.
> 
> I agree with the stable handling assement. It is super stable at any speed. I think it may be the reason the handle does not feel as quick but stabiliy helps with more precise handling IMHO.
> 
> I agree that ISP can be an issue if you travel with the bike. As for me I am too young to have the wealth to travel with the bike as of yet.  So ISP does not bother me. but if you do travel non ISP version of this frame looks very nice.
> 
> PLAYONIT: I think you do have to use the cable end sleeve on all ends to make it fit. I am not sure what you were planning on before.. But mine is done the same way.
> I can't wait to see your bike done with those sweet wheels...



chocy:...Thanks For clearing that up!! It's my first time and I was going to route the whole outer cable through the top tube . I have not even looked at it yet. I just got my Zero Gravity Brake set yesterday and will get it done..... Thanks


----------



## velomateo

PLAYONIT said:


> Looks great!!!!!!! The image of the rear brake cable where it exits the top tube looks very clean.... Is that a sleeve you fashioned that the cable exits from? I am doing my brakes tonight and thought that looks like the way to go.....


The top tube cable routing is for the cable only, the housing will terminate at the front and the rear blisters. As for the "sleeve", that is just a cable housing ferule that comes with the SRAM group. They are stamped with the SRAM logo. Good luck with your build, from the parts list you have posted I am expecting it to be stunning.


----------



## kdtx

*my Hong fu*

Hey everyone......I received my Hong Fu frame yesterday (and bars, seatpost, fork, headset). I was pretty pleased as well. It had one small blemish about the size of a pencil lead tip on the seat stay. Definitely was not from shipping as that part was wrapped pretty well. Overall, I am extremely happy. No need for pics yet as it looks the same as the others so far. I am having it painted in the next week or so and will post pics when the build is complete. 

FYI, Jenny said it would ship on the Nov 10th and I received it on Thursday Nov 11th. They shipped ahead of schedule. I ordered about 3 weeks prior.


----------



## newmexrb1

Man that matte finish looks good. Just soaks up the light like no ones biz--was that taken in bright sunlight? Also am very grateful taht you mentioned the ISP/shipping crate issue. I have no plans for any trips but ya never know. Out of curiosity anyone have a bike accompany them on a flight recently--wondering what it costs?:cryin:


----------



## AltaRide

*Planet X Carbon Frames $629 Seems Good...*

The Pro SL Carbon Frames from Planet X are good looking quality frames, and are backed up by UK's Planet X. They have USA distributors also. Here's a link for info on another possibility:http://www.altaterracycles.com/framesbags.html
:thumbsup:


----------



## FAST2U

I currently have a Pro SL Carbon from Planet X, its a great frame! Its a 3K twill weave that rides, and climbs excellent. I am looking at Planet X's new Ti frame now. Its built by Lynskey who started Litespeed I believe. Great stuff, and closer than China?


----------



## Tim_D

I'll have to put in a good word for the Planet X, too -- it's what I'm on at the moment. I've ridden it for two months and it's even more comfortable than my previous Ti frames -- and it climbs better, too. I'd say it's the best frame I've personally ridden. In combination with the Tufo 'tubular clinchers' that I've become a big fan of (not in pic), the ride quality is sublime.










I found out abut the Hong-Fu frames about a week after my Planet X was delivered, so you might think I'm taking a risk by ordering one... but there's something 'right' about the Hong Fu FM-015 design...and impressions on here seem to back that up.

So the Planet X will be going on e-Bay to fund the Hong Fu.

Actually, today I bumped into someone here in Germany who was riding an identical frame to the PX, but badged De Rosa: "Hey," I said, "looks like we have the same frame, just with different stickers".

"Oh no," he replied "mine's a De Rosa. It's from italy".

But we know different, don't we boys and girls?:wink: :wink: :wink:


----------



## supras2kracer

fab4 said:


> The Forte Microshift shifters are Shimano 10sp compatible so you can use 105, Ultegra, or Dura ace derailleurs and cassette. You can also use SRAM 10sp cassette as long as your rear hub is compatible. Shifting is different it's like a cross between Shimano and Campy. There are two shifting mechanism and they are both independent from the brake levers so you don't accidentaly brake when your shifting. The long lever is used to upshift and the short lever is used to down shift. Shifting performance is very precise and accurate. The front derailleur shift with less effort compared to my SRAM Rival.You can also upshift 2 to 3 gears in one swing. Ergonomics wise it's very similar to Shimano as well. I'm not sure about long term durability but so far I like them.


I got the same group as you and I really like them. I'm using them with a fsa sl-k double and 105 10 speed cassette. The shifting is pretty smooth. I hope they last but if they don't we always have the lifetime warranty from performance!


----------



## velomateo

Just finished riding the hongfu, after I made some adjustments to the bar height and slid the seat a little. Man, I am loving this bike, I think I have my positioning near perfect and I am beginning to believe this the best bike I have ever owned... and I have had a few nice bikes over the last twenty years. I did want to have you guys check, prior to building up yours, for debris in the steer tube. I was making the final cut on mine last night and found the steer tube packed with what appears to be fabrication debris. I couldn't see it before when the steer tube was longer but after knocking off another couple inches there it was. I used a long screw driver and positioned my shop vac over the hole while I poked it out. I'm not taking a little - it was packed full all the way to the bottom. I made need to re-weigh my bike now. Let me know if you guys find it in yours as well.


----------



## newmexrb1

All the debris:Wonder if this might be the source of the noise someonne recently complained about. Any noise issues with your bike?


----------



## velomateo

newmexrb1 said:


> All the debris:Wonder if this might be the source of the noise someonne recently complained about. Any noise issues with your bike?



No noises at all, as quiet as church mouse. :thumbsup:


----------



## chocy

Mateo,

I am glad you are loving it. 

I am loving it myself. I am doinga real long ride tomorrow (near century distance solo)

I didnt have a debris myself but I did vacumn out my cutting debris. That was it.

Anyway Thumbs up for Hong-Fu frame!!


----------



## dexdes

No, the only noise I get is from general road vibration. Pretty common for carbon monocoque. I've heard some manufacturers use low density foam inside the monocoque to reduce sound but that's not the case here - just hollow inside. Also had a fair amount of chain noise with the SRAM Red that was probably amplified by the frame. Got some Chain-L lube and applied that after thoroughly cleaning the chain and that seems to have pretty well taken care of it. Great stuff, highly recommended. Recently noticed some creaking at the headset but I tightened it up a bit and that seems to have gone away for the present at least.


----------



## FAST2U

*Another Carbon Quieting Tool....*

Something I find helps very much in the assembly of carbon frame build ups, is using FSA carbon assembly paste. It helps make tightening and creak elimination a thing of the past from what we've found.


----------



## supras2kracer

Here's my bike









You can see the more pictures by going here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157622809346342/


Specs:
Pseudo Kredo frame
forte pro slx seat
Forte Microshift Groupset
FSA SL-K Double Crankset
Shimano 105 10 speed cassette
Crank Brothers Egg Beater SL Pedals
Forte Titan Wheel set
Shimano 105 Brakes


----------



## dexdes

FAST2U - Yes, I consider using carbon compound a must. I think that I just needed to retorque/tighten the headset because I had yet to do that after the initial assembly plus almost 1000 miles on the road. Also, I live in the mountains and thus am out of the saddle pushing and pulling on the bars quite a bit which tends to loosen things. Hopefully, the headset is now fully seated and won't loosen anytime soon.

Oh, and regarding debris in the steerer tube, I didn't notice any during the initial build. After cutting it to the proper length, I cleaned it out prior to assembly but again didn't notice anything remarkable.

All in all, I really don't have a problem with the intrinsic noise of my pseudo-Kredo. At higher speeds on chipped roads it does tend to have its own harmonic, something akin to water running thru a pipe or a really soft whistling, but not something to be annoyed or alamed at. And now that I have the chain noise under control, the overall degree of loudness is very average.


----------



## ahmed

sebo2000 said:


> Those frames are so cool and ride really nice, here is my built, I'm getting those carbon rims next:



thats bull****, its not a trek, so why put trek stickers on it, right down to the oclv. casue youre too cheap to get a real trek but want to impress freds on your club rides?

how lame can you get, its like putting ferrari stickers on a mustang or escalade.

  you guys are sad.


----------



## grole

Ahmed, stop being so positive to these frames, it will hurt your business.


----------



## tbong27

Trek decals?? hmm but gotta love the look of the new ultegra....wonder if i should switch from campy centaur to ultegra


----------



## sebo2000

ahmed said:


> thats bull****, its not a trek, so why put trek stickers on it, right down to the oclv. casue youre too cheap to get a real trek but want to impress freds on your club rides?
> 
> how lame can you get, its like putting ferrari stickers on a mustang or escalade.
> 
> you guys are sad.


No need to get all excited, I just picked most comprehensive trek decals of ebay down to oclv, I wanted to have my own name etc. but nobody does full set so here is Trek.
It’s not about cheap, original, Ferrari or not Ferrari, my friends would know with eyes closed it is not trek, so whoever gets tricked is a tool anyway.:aureola:


----------



## sebo2000

tbong27 said:


> Trek decals?? hmm but gotta love the look of the new ultegra....wonder if i should switch from campy centaur to ultegra


Why would you, I hope you kidding do you have a carbon set, those are sweet.


----------



## ahmed

sebo2000 said:


> No need to get all excited, I just picked most comprehensive trek decals of ebay down to oclv, I wanted to have my own name etc. but nobody does full set so here is Trek.
> It’s not about cheap, original, Ferrari or not Ferrari, my friends would know with eyes closed it is not trek, so whoever gets tricked is a tool anyway.:aureola:



your explantion is weaksauce, badging a no name frame with name brand stuff is bonkers, youre giving free advertising to trek...bollocks.

better blank than with Trek tags


----------



## sebo2000

ahmed said:


> your explantion is weaksauce, badging a no name frame with name brand stuff is bonkers, youre giving free advertising to trek...bollocks.
> better blank than with Trek tags


If it is better blank, built one blank, I’m not trying to convince you to get trek, get what ever you want. You can even put Ahmed on it  I was thinking about putting my name on it but it would be too long


----------



## Rob81

nice bike except
1) stickers, but everyone has his/her own taste
2) *that seat clamp with a lever* ....in Europe, if it was like USA, thay could shoot at you in dislike for that, LOL


----------



## tbong27

Yeah carbon levers not the cranks... nothing much to shout about... But not complaining either.  I m real **** at adjusting deraileurs so the shifting is a bit sucky now..the front derailleur just rubs the chain on some cogs.. cant get it right...


----------



## asad137

I gotta agree with ahmed here, those stickers are ridiculous. It's not a Trek, why put Trek stickers on it? Doesn't make sense, and it frankly makes _you_ look like a poseur, or a tool, or both. There's a right way and a wrong way -- you chose the wrong way. The right way would be to get stickers custom made locally, or even on the internet. Here's someone who did it the right way: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=186079 , and the additional cost would have been a drop in the bucket compared to the total cost of your build.

Also, ahmed, you never elaborated on your story about ordering a frame and getting rolls of duct tape instead. Or were you just joking?

Asad


----------



## pdxrolex

Trek stickers have to go. Ruins an otherwise nice ride.


----------



## royd

I may be in the minority here but I think the Trek stickers gives the bike a nice touch. I look at it as just decorations.

Here is my decorated bike, go easy with clubs now!
This bike will have Campy Record 11 on it. Just waiting on the seat clam and headset to start the build.


----------



## MercuryMan76

Man, I seriously don't understand why peeps would buy these generic carbon frames and then stick branded decals on them. And I'm not knocking the frames at all because I also bought a pseudo Kredo frame, but I put my own custom decals on it. Why fake the funk?!?


----------



## velomateo

I'm not into the TREK decals either, they just look out of place, although the build is nice. I think the KUOTA decals work because of the similarities in the frame though. This is what I did. I did a search after I decided what I wanted and it turns out there is a Sparta bike company...but they sell electric bike in the Netherlands or somewhere near there. I don't think there is any chance that I will get passed by some mustashed guy wearing knickers on a electric bike - yelling "Poser!". 
<a href="https://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/matte%20black/?action=view&current=hongfu008.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/matte%20black/hongfu008.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Decals are actually silver, the flash makes them look much brighter. I had them made at FedEx Office, formerly Kinkos. Cost about thirty bucks. Sorry for the bad pictures.


----------



## KMan

*Stickers*



MercuryMan76 said:


> Man, I seriously don't understand why peeps would buy these generic carbon frames and then stick branded decals on them. And I'm not knocking the frames at all because I also bought a pseudo Kredo frame, but I put my own custom decals on it. Why fake the funk?!?



I made the comment about putting name brand stickers on these off brand bikes ages ago when these ebay frame threads just started - I think it's pretty stupid. If you wanted a name brand bike - go buy one. Now I think those who are putting their own "name" stickers on the bikes - kudos for originality - for the rest, it really looks pretty stupid.

just my $0.02 worth
Michael


----------



## asad137

velomateo -- nice choice on the decals. Original and not over-the-top.

Asad


----------



## royd

KMAN- I disagree with your assessment of stickering these bikes with manufacturer stickers as "pretty stupid". This approach may not be your thing but as the saying goes "my frameset, my rules" 

And why do you thing my frame is not a name brand frame? It just cost me less.


----------



## parlorbikes

This thread makes me throw up in my mouth. 

You have a blank canvas for an awesome paint or decal job, and you put Trek or Kuota on the thing. BARF

That "Trek" is hideous. Buy some matching tires, take an art class, get some class, and repaint your bike withyour own decal design. 

-509098053409823459 points for being creative.


----------



## grole

I used the name of my 2 children and MSWord to "design" a logo with some cool fonts, Emailed it to a company that makes advertisement on cars and buses and they made me some stickers, picked them up and voila my own designed bike. cost $12.


----------



## PLAYONIT

Just thought I would post an artsy fartsy pic of my build.... take the thread away form the Decal bashing..... My .02 is to keep it original ..... build is going well all parts have been sourced and now just need to find the time to put it together.... Bike image is with the new basher wheels... I still have to send the 50mm carbon rims out for building.....


----------



## sebo2000

hehehe thanks a lot!:mad2:


----------



## Zuckerkorn

sebo2000 said:


> hehehe thanks a lot!:mad2:


It's a public forum. People are free to express their opinion, no matter how much you dislike it. Get used to it.


----------



## sebo2000

Zuckerkorn said:


> It's a public forum. People are free to express their opinion, no matter how much you dislike it. Get used to it.


Honestly is what I value the most, I would never expect everybody to like the same “look”, it would be similar to all man like blond and nothing else, kind of boring.


----------



## sebo2000

grole said:


> I used the name of my 2 children and MSWord to "design" a logo with some cool fonts, Emailed it to a company that makes advertisement on cars and buses and they made me some stickers, picked them up and voila my own designed bike. cost $12.


Do you have pictures? That is really good idea


----------



## sebo2000

PLAYONIT said:


> Just thought I would post an artsy fartsy pic of my build.... take the thread away form the Decal bashing..... My .02 is to keep it original ..... build is going well all parts have been sourced and now just need to find the time to put it together.... Bike image is with the new basher wheels... I still have to send the 50mm carbon rims out for building.....



Nice, which model of frame is it? I like the geometry, I didn't see this one before


----------



## Rob81

My frame, waiting to be shipped tomorrow


It's the same as PLAYONIT one.

P.S. PLAYONIT you got PM from me


----------



## Tim_D

Rob81 --

Quick q's.. how did you get that picture of the frame? Did Jenny send it to you? What date were you promised for shipping, and was it adhered to?

I was promised shipment and tracking no. on the 16th Nov. and have heard nothing, despite e-mailing.

*Update:* There was a production delay, apparently. It'll ship on the 21st, now.


----------



## Rob81

I'm in contact with Tony from Greatkeen, nice person and often very fast in replying to emails.
I asked him to send me pics before shipping and complete the payments (was 50% at the order and 50% before shipping).
So far all was good, they had a production problem and he contacted me informing about the delays.
It'll be shipped tomorrow, so I guess I can expect it'll arrive here (Italy) for the end of the month.


----------



## athletic91

both hongfu and greatkeen had production delays at the same time. ..hmm........


----------



## shred the gnar

*new poster with some thoughts*

hey everybody, im new here but Ive done a heap of research and had a few questions no one else has seemed to raise. 

on Jenny's (hong fu contact) ebay listing she mentions that you can choose 3k, 12k or unidirectional carbon. It seems like kind of a big deal to put that kind of choice in the hands of a consumer. any thoughts? many of you who have purchased the 015 model seemed to have gone with 3k weave, but many other companies seem to be using more and more unidirectional carbon. 


also, what are your thoughts on this hong fu frame:
https://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Upload/Pic/2009719205632661.jpg

Im pretty sure it the same as this frame from "NEO" bikes that goes for $750:idea: :
https://www.neo-cycles.com/upload/images/4.jpg


Im sort of into more classic styling so this one really got me excited.


----------



## sebo2000

Rob81 said:


> My frame, waiting to be shipped tomorrow
> 
> 
> It's the same as PLAYONIT one.
> 
> P.S. PLAYONIT you got PM from me


Rob can you tell me ho much it cost you and where did you get it? This is very close to madone if not the same frame. I love this geometry, and might go for second road bike soon.


----------



## Rob81

http://greatkeen.com.cn/ but also other Chinese distributors have it.
Look for frame FM015
More or less 500$ with shippment (3k finiture is +10$, headset $15, plus i requested 2 bottle cages and 2 spare rear hangers).
And no it's not a Madone look-a-like, it's more closer to this one (except for the rear derraileur cable which is inside the frame as the rear brake cable):
http://www.cube-bikes.de/xist4c/web/litening-hpc-race-e_id_35875_.htm


----------



## vaetuning

*015-spl*

Hi there

Jenny told me that my frame was shipped last wednesday, and provided tracking numbers.

It arrived in Denmark friday!!

It was released from customs on monday, and I had it tuesday - pretty quick:thumbsup: 

I was really impressed when I weighed the frame and fork!!

Frame with uncut seatpost in size 55 weighed 1248grams

Fork with uncut steerer weighed 398 grams

That's way better than I hoped it would be!!

The ergo carbon bar weighs 266grams - that's also very acceptable 

I actually succeded in remachining the Ritchey clamps for Fi'zik saddles, to be used with the supplied seat clamp, so it could be used together with my San Marco carbon saddle:thumbsup: 

I have attached a couple of preliminary pictures of my build, as I'm still waiting for my Driven Red NRZ groupset.

I'm sorry for the quality of the pics - we're running a little low on daylight in Denmark at this time of year 

Cheers


----------



## iherald

That's a nice looking bike. It always amazes me how weird a bike looks without a crank. It looks broken almost. 

Was the paint job done by Jenny? I like that it appears part of it is still the carbon showing, do you mind me asking how much you paid for the paint?


----------



## vaetuning

*Paintjob*

Hi there

Yep, the paint was done by Jenny / Hong Fu Bikes - Cost 50$

Furthermore the decal templates cost 70$ to have opened for each new decal you want to add - they will keep it for your future use, and later on you won't have to pay that fee.

Concerning quality of paint and decal work, and lay up of 12k carbon fibres and overall quality, there is nothing to lay a finger on:thumbsup: 

I'm so impressed 

Furthermore - if I do the "old" foot to BB area and apply force, it seems to be even stiffer than my 2009 Scott CR-1 Pro frame, and that's saying quite a bit.

The quality is simply impressing:thumbsup: 

When I count the mails I have had with Jenny (more than 140 mails back and forth), I must say: she's the most patient and understanding person, I have ever dealt with trough emails:thumbsup: 

Actually - I'm still baffled by the quality to price equasion!!

By the way - I'm not one of those "shills":aureola: I'm just a very happy person right now!!

Cheers


----------



## shred the gnar

damn, they did a great job on the paint! I kind of thought that matte carbon was the way to go, but now Im having second thoughts. and yeah that's pretty light when you consider it includes the seat post and clamp weight. if it had a standard seat post setup, I guess that would make the frame around 1050g! (Depending on the seat post of course) not bad amigo.


----------



## Tommy919

Ride it in good health. Your build looks awesome  



vaetuning said:


> Hi there
> 
> Yep, the paint was done by Jenny / Hong Fu Bikes - Cost 50$
> 
> Furthermore the decal templates cost 70$ to have opened for each new decal you want to add - they will keep it for your future use, and later on you won't have to pay that fee.
> 
> Concerning quality of paint and decal work, and lay up of 12k carbon fibres and overall quality, there is nothing to lay a finger on:thumbsup:
> 
> I'm so impressed
> 
> Furthermore - if I do the "old" foot to BB area and apply force, it seems to be even stiffer than my 2009 Scott CR-1 Pro frame, and that's saying quite a bit.
> 
> The quality is simply impressing:thumbsup:
> 
> When I count the mails I have had with Jenny (more than 140 mails back and forth), I must say: she's the most patient and understanding person, I have ever dealt with trough emails:thumbsup:
> 
> Actually - I'm still baffled by the quality to price equasion!!
> 
> By the way - I'm not one of those "shills":aureola: I'm just a very happy person right now!!
> 
> Cheers


----------



## velomateo

vaetuning - bike looks awesome. I can't tell from the pics, but does the carbon show thru the lettering or are they black decals applied over paint? Did you design the paint layout or did they have some templates to choose from? Again, it looks great. I look forward to seeing the completed build.


----------



## vaetuning

Tommy919 said:


> Ride it in good health. Your build looks awesome


Thanks a bunch

Cheers


----------



## Dutch77

Wow, that looks amazing! Certainly worth it for just $50. Do you know how much time the painting added to the order? Sounds like it takes them a while to get the frame to begin with...


----------



## vaetuning

*Paint / decals*



velomateo said:


> vaetuning - bike looks awesome. I can't tell from the pics, but does the carbon show thru the lettering or are they black decals applied over paint? Did you design the paint layout or did they have some templates to choose from? Again, it looks great. I look forward to seeing the completed build.


Hi Velomateo

Thanks 

The 12k carbon only shows in the dark areas, but the decals are applied over the paint, but underneath the clear coat.

The paint layout is a slightly modified version of their own sample on their Hong Fu website - the dark areas are painted black in their own version - mine is in 12k.

The final design has come to life in the huge amount of mails back and forth between Jenny and me.

The name of the bike I cooked up, while trying to find something that suited a bike which was unknown to my area - hence Alien

RM-1 stands for Racing Machine One

The font of the text, is the same as Hong Fu uses on their sample.

I'm also very exited to get the build done, but I'm still waiting for my groupset - I believe it will compliment the rest of my bike very well.

Cheers


----------



## vaetuning

shred the gnar said:


> damn, they did a great job on the paint!  I kind of thought that matte carbon was the way to go, but now Im having second thoughts. and yeah that's pretty light when you consider it includes the seat post and clamp weight. if it had a standard seat post setup, I guess that would make the frame around 1050g! (Depending on the seat post of course) not bad amigo.


Hi there

Thanks

Yep, the weight is quite OK:thumbsup: 

Actually my friends size 53 015-SPL weighed 1204 grams, which, in my book, puts it underneath 1000gr.!!

Cheers


----------



## vaetuning

*Paint / time*



Dutch77 said:


> Wow, that looks amazing! Certainly worth it for just $50. Do you know how much time the painting added to the order? Sounds like it takes them a while to get the frame to begin with...


Hi there

Thanks

I made the final order on October the 7. and I received the frame tuesday this week (17 of november).

Mind you - I ordered my frame before I found this forum, so maybe I got mine trough, before the orders came tumbling in at Hong Fu??

I'm also looking forward to receiving the 50mm custom carbon clinchers they are currently cooking up for me

Again: a design between Jenny and me:thumbsup: 

Cheers


----------



## kdtx

FWIW,............. I think we need a picture of Jenny


----------



## PLAYONIT

Did any of the SPL-015 owners have any trouble with looseness with the fork after installing it... It appeared fine at first but after hitting my front brake I noticed a little play.. after taking it apart it seems the upper bearing should be a tighter fit.. I don't have my micrometer at home to check the circumference difference... Did your upper bearing fit snug or did it drop right in as mine did???? I am using the Hong-fu supplied headset......


----------



## independentmind

From my previous research and from reading the two threads i understand there were some issues with the supplied headsets not being the correct size. Do you have access to a compatible headset (from another bike....perhaps drop that one in?) just to make sure it is a headset issue and not a frame problem?

PS: I've pulled out of the hong-fu build project, i got a killer deal on a 2009 CAAD 9 from a LBS. Kinda sucks in a way since i put so much research into this project. I still love what people are coming up with on this thread, also can't wait to see some of those carbon clinchers built up.


----------



## Pirx

Hi vaetuning,

what's the deal with those custom components (calipers, derailleurs, etc.)? Where are you getting these from?


----------



## supras2kracer

I had a similar issue with my pseudo kredo. I just tightened the headset and it pressed the cups in (they didn't drop in perfectly like they're supposed to). Works fine now.

My headset was an FSA headset though.


----------



## vaetuning

*Custom Components*



Pirx said:


> Hi vaetuning,
> 
> what's the deal with those custom components (calipers, derailleurs, etc.)? Where are you getting these from?


Hi Pirx

The Calipers are from TRP - called 950SL - you can buy them from Chainreactioncycles.

The groupset is a newcomer from Taiwan called Sunrace. It is their top of the line product called Driven Red NRZ.
It's weight is lower than new Dura Ace, and somewhat similar to the weight of my Campagnolo Super Record 11sp, Which I use on my Scott frame.

If you google the following: driven nrz review, you will find a test done on this groupset, and they were quite happy with it.

I contacted the dutch branch of sunrace, and persuaded them to start selling these groupsets to me, and as they are brandnew in the Red configuration, the first sets will be shipping out around 7. of december, were i'll get mine.

Furthermore they are sponsoring a scandinavian cycling team next year, so they arre really trying to get in on the market over here.

If you go to sunrace.com, you'll see that there is 4 branches - try contacting the one nearest to you over the phone, and see if they are willing to sell to you.

If not let me know and I'll try to help you out 

Cheers


----------



## vaetuning

PLAYONIT said:


> Did any of the SPL-015 owners have any trouble with looseness with the fork after installing it... It appeared fine at first but after hitting my front brake I noticed a little play.. after taking it apart it seems the upper bearing should be a tighter fit.. I don't have my micrometer at home to check the circumference difference... Did your upper bearing fit snug or did it drop right in as mine did???? I am using the Hong-fu supplied headset......


Hi Playonit

Actually, now that you mention it - the upper bearing on my frame seemed to "fall" in place too, whereas the lower needed a little force to seat correctly.

Let me now if you find a solution - I'll do the same

hmmm....maybe some of your cola can shimming could do the trick?? 

I'm not very keen on using any loctite products there, as it will likely destroy the frame, if it has to be taken apart at some point.:cryin: 

Cheers


----------



## Tim_D

vae --

That's a 55cm frame right? How tall are you?... you seem to have a lot of stack, seatpost and an upward sloping stem.

I'm 1.8m and have ordered the 58cm (57 top tube).


----------



## RC28

vaetuning said:


> Hi Pirx
> 
> 
> The groupset is a newcomer from Taiwan called Sunrace. It is their top of the line product called Driven Red NRZ.
> It's weight is lower than new Dura Ace, and somewhat similar to the weight of my Campagnolo Super Record 11sp, Which I use on my Scott frame.
> 
> If you google the following: driven nrz review, you will find a test done on this groupset, and they were quite happy with it.
> 
> 
> Cheers


Same components as Sturmey-Archer, Sampson, Token and the ones currently on offer from Nashbar and Performance. All of them are made by Microshift but from different material grades and finishes.


----------



## vaetuning

Tim_D said:


> vae --
> 
> That's a 55cm frame right? How tall are you?... you seem to have a lot of stack, seatpost and an upward sloping stem.
> 
> I'm 1.8m and have ordered the 58cm (57 top tube).


Hi Tim

Beware of the angle of the seat tube - you'l be positioned quite far behind the crankbox!!

If you are 180cm I believe the 550 frame would fit you perfect.

Do you have the engineering drawings of the 580 and the 550 frames??

Actually concerning my frame - seat post have not been cut yet!!

A pro once told me to order my frames on the small side, as it gives me so many more options in dialing the frame in to fit me - NEVER order a frame a little to big, you'l have no adjustment possibillities left!! - I'm still tankfull for that peace of advice!!

Furthermore I have suffered survere injuries to my neck joints in the past, rendering me incabable to lay to much over the bike - I need to be a little more upright!!

By the way - I'm 190cm, and compared with my other frames, this will fit me like a glove, and I still have to cut a little over 4cm of the seat post:thumbsup:


----------



## Tim_D

Hmmm... I ordered the 580, because of the 567 top tube. I ride a 570mm top tube at the moment, with a 110 mm stem. I do have the engineering drawings, yes (posted on here a few pages back).


----------



## vaetuning

RC28 said:


> Same components as Sturmey-Archer, Sampson, Token and the ones currently on offer from Nashbar and Performance. All of them are made by Microshift but from different material grades and finishes.


Hi RC28

Sturmey archer is Sunrace - they were bought by Sunrace some years ago, as Sturmey got into financial problems due to faulty internal gear hubs.

Microshift is actually only supplying the FD, RD and shifters - I don't know who is supplying the crankset and the BB box, but the Driven Group is delivered with all ceramic bearings and a titanium crank axel, and this groupo is considered to do as well as any other top of the line groupo.

cheers


----------



## vaetuning

Tim_D said:


> Hmmm... I ordered the 580, because of the 567 top tube. I ride a 570mm top tube at the moment, with a 110 mm stem. I do have the engineering drawings, yes (posted on here a few pages back).


Hi Tim

Ok, I wish you all the best with your build - I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surpriced with the craftmanship on your frame and parts:thumbsup: 

Concerning the Engineering drawings - take a good hard look at the saddle height of your current bike - and calculate how much you need to cut of the seatpost on your new frame.

I'm not trying to scare you or anything, but remember, the bigger you order your frame, the more it is likely to flex, as the tubes are NOT bigger on the larger frames, just longer.

Furthermore I find that a slightly smaller frame feels more nimble on the road, and somewhat compensates for the fact that I'm a former bodybuilder weighing in at 105kg.

I'm by no means some sort of fitting guru - the above is just what I prefer 

Actually I was on a 80km ride together with a couplle of friends today, and I installed a Hong Fu fork on my winther bike before the ride - it felt way more stiff than my previous carbon something fork, and the bike tracked way better, so these forks seem to be of good quality as well:thumbsup:


----------



## vaetuning

PLAYONIT said:


> Did any of the SPL-015 owners have any trouble with looseness with the fork after installing it... It appeared fine at first but after hitting my front brake I noticed a little play.. after taking it apart it seems the upper bearing should be a tighter fit.. I don't have my micrometer at home to check the circumference difference... Did your upper bearing fit snug or did it drop right in as mine did???? I am using the Hong-fu supplied headset......


Hi Playonit

I went to my LBS today, and picked up another headset, but it is exactly the same Lose fit on upper bearing.

I then cut a shim out of a Cola can and put it behind the upper bearing towards the top tube, and the problem dissapeared:thumbsup: 
As the shim is very very thin theres is no problem with binding of the bearings.

It seemed to cure the problem very well:thumbsup: 

I hope you do not mind me using your shim technique 

Cheers


----------



## shred the gnar

*different carbon types*

Hey just thought Id share:

I posted a question about choosing between 3k,12k and UD carbon a few pages back and got no response from anyone, but I emailed jenny and she said that the weight between the different types of carbon is pretty much identical, she didn't mention specifically about strength, but it was sort of implied that it was really just an aesthetic choice. 

so there you have it, just incase anyone else was having trouble deciding what type of carbon to choose. Rock on: :23:


----------



## RC28

vaetuning said:


> Hi RC28
> 
> Sturmey archer is Sunrace - they were bought by Sunrace some years ago, as Sturmey got into financial problems due to faulty internal gear hubs.
> 
> Microshift is actually only supplying the FD, RD and shifters - I don't know who is supplying the crankset and the BB box, but the Driven Group is delivered with all ceramic bearings and a titanium crank axel,* and this groupo is considered to do as well as any other top of the line groupo.*
> 
> cheers


I know. But Sturmey Archer did have some of these components with their name on them when they first came out a couple of years ago, hence my mention of the relabeling.

I personally do not like the way the upshift lever works and the fact that it started as an obvious knockoff of Shimano. Besides the ceramic bearings, which , some of the other component manufacturers already offer in their top end groups, is there anything really innovative about this group that makes it "do as well as any other top of the line groupo"? 
I saw the bikeradar review and saw that they liked it a lot...and the whole ensemble might just be a nice product. But to state that it is on par with SR, DA or Red might be a bit of a stretch.

At the very least they could have kept the "Red" out of the name and be more original...


----------



## robpar

vaetuning said:


> Hi Tim
> Furthermore I find that a slightly smaller frame feels more nimble on the road, and somewhat compensates for the fact that I'm a former bodybuilder weighing in at 105kg.


what's your saddle to bar drop?


----------



## chocy

PLAY ON IT and all

integrated headset is not a "force fit" head set. They are suppose to fall into it (although it should feel snug, almost snapping in when using hand) and then you use the compression lug to eliminate the play. If you have a play on your steerer it probably isn't the headset, you just haven't tightened the compression nut enough. 

I hope it helps


----------



## vaetuning

RC28 said:


> I know. But Sturmey Archer did have some of these components with their name on them when they first came out a couple of years ago, hence my mention of the relabeling.
> 
> I personally do not like the way the upshift lever works and the fact that it started as an obvious knockoff of Shimano. Besides the ceramic bearings, which , some of the other component manufacturers already offer in their top end groups, is there anything really innovative about this group that makes it "do as well as any other top of the line groupo"?
> I saw the bikeradar review and saw that they liked it a lot...and the whole ensemble might just be a nice product. But to state that it is on par with SR, DA or Red might be a bit of a stretch.
> 
> At the very least they could have kept the "Red" out of the name and be more original...


Hi RC28

I tend to agree with all of the above.

If I should mention one thing that stands apart - it would be the casette - it is probably the lightest 10sp. casette in the world right now.

The only other thing that comes to my mind, is the fact that they are trying hard to get into the market in scandinavia - hence very agressive pricing compared to the 3 other major brands, as far as I've heard.

By the way: at some point in the earlier days, I'm sure somebody said "SRAM, what is that supposed to be" - no pun intended 

We all know by now, that SRAM is very, very good, but that does not mean we should all close our eyes to something new!!

I'm just one of those guys who likes to try something new and different.

On the other hand, I'll be fairly surpriced if the Driven group performs as well as my Campagnolo Super Record 11sp, but never the less, it probably performs way better than 
it should, taken into consideration that it cost me way less than the Campy group did 

Cheers


----------



## vaetuning

robpar said:


> what's your saddle to bar drop?


Hi

It is somewhat around 8 to 9cm - no more than that due to my former neck injury 

As the crank box is placed a little lower than on my Scott CR-1 frame, I'll probably remove some of the stack height under my stem and cut even more than 4cm of the seat post, but everything is depending on the arrival of my groupset - when I have installed that, I'll dial the whole bike in.

Cheers


----------



## RC28

vaetuning said:


> Hi RC28
> 
> I tend to agree with all of the above.
> 
> If I should mention one thing that stands apart - it would be the casette - it is probably the lightest 10sp. casette in the world right now.


Yes it is light, but durability is its weak point. SRAM Red's cassette is heavier (although still quite light), but since it is made out of steel , it is much more durable. 

From bikeradar's review: _" Mind you, being one-piece 7075 aluminium alloy, it should be much lighter. Despite the ceramic coating standing up to all of the abuse that we threw at it, the edges of the teeth are showing wear after a little under 600 miles; that’s not too bad, and to be honest it’s much better than we were expecting. _"

It looks like the cassette is for race day only...600 miles is less than three weeks normal riding around these parts. And even for race day, that means about half a season's worth.
Hmmm...

And yes, a lot of people doubted SRAM but they did come out with several cool innovations in the weight and functionality departments.

Either way, you choose what to ride and if you're happy with these components , then that's great. If you're putting on the kms and they work, then that's all that matters.


----------



## jmarteijn

Received the Frame yesterday, but i was wondering which Ahead Plug should i use on the fork? I know that there are two different versions that can be used, but i don't know which one i should use.

Thkx.


----------



## Tim_D

Quick q. about the headset on the fm-015 frame. Does anybody know what angle the bearing supports are -- 45 deg like Campagnolo? Or Cane Creek standard?


----------



## robpar

vaetuning said:


> Hi
> 
> It is somewhat around 8 to 9cm - no more than that due to my former neck injury
> 
> As the crank box is placed a little lower than on my Scott CR-1 frame, I'll probably remove some of the stack height under my stem and cut even more than 4cm of the seat post, but everything is depending on the arrival of my groupset - when I have installed that, I'll dial the whole bike in.
> 
> Cheers


Thanks. I run a 2 cm bar drop (back surgery a few years ago) so i'm concerned about the 150 mm head tube length on the 55cm frame. My current frame has a 175 mm head tube but if I go to the next size up, the top tube gets a little too long for me (ideally my top tube would be 550 mm with 73.5 seat angle)... I could run the larger frame with a shorter stem though...
what is the stack height of the headset? (before adding any spacers-from top of head tube to top of headset)
Is the steerer tube tapered? or just the head tube?
I'm really tempted to buy this frame ( I own an Ebay carbon frame already)
Thanks!


----------



## iherald

shred the gnar said:


> Hey just thought Id share:
> 
> I posted a question about choosing between 3k,12k and UD carbon a few pages back and got no response from anyone, but I emailed jenny and she said that the weight between the different types of carbon is pretty much identical, she didn't mention specifically about strength, but it was sort of implied that it was really just an aesthetic choice.
> 
> so there you have it, just incase anyone else was having trouble deciding what type of carbon to choose. Rock on: :23:


From my understanding the 'carbon' that you see is only a layer or two on top that gives it that 'look'.


----------



## vaetuning

robpar said:


> Thanks. I run a 2 cm bar drop (back surgery a few years ago) so i'm concerned about the 150 mm head tube length on the 55cm frame. My current frame has a 175 mm head tube but if I go to the next size up, the top tube gets a little too long for me (ideally my top tube would be 550 mm with 73.5 seat angle)... I could run the larger frame with a shorter stem though...
> what is the stack height of the headset? (before adding any spacers-from top of head tube to top of headset)
> Is the steerer tube tapered? or just the head tube?
> I'm really tempted to buy this frame ( I own an Ebay carbon frame already)
> Thanks!


Hi Robpar

I have the exact same problem, but with my neck, therefore I choose the 550 015-SPL frame, knowing I would have to turn the stem upside down, thus decreasing the amount of spacers underneath the stem, and still get my bar high enough for me to be comfortable.

Unfortunately I can not measure the stack height of the headset, sorry I'm at work right now.

The Steerer tube is tapered also.

Cheers


----------



## Srexy

jmarteijn said:


> Received the Frame yesterday, but i was wondering which Ahead Plug should i use on the fork? I know that there are two different versions that can be used, but i don't know which one i should use.
> 
> Thkx.


Compression or star-fangled nut can be used on Aluminium. Carbon requires a compression plug (and torque wrench) only.


----------



## PLAYONIT

vaetuning said:


> Hi Playonit
> 
> I went to my LBS today, and picked up another headset, but it is exactly the same Lose fit on upper bearing.
> 
> I then cut a shim out of a Cola can and put it behind the upper bearing towards the top tube, and the problem dissapeared:thumbsup:
> As the shim is very very thin theres is no problem with binding of the bearings.
> 
> It seemed to cure the problem very well:thumbsup:
> 
> I hope you do not mind me using your shim technique
> 
> Cheers


Yes that is the fix I used... I had a little play in the bearing but also had to shim the ID bearing to race... It's tight now... But I don't loike the idea of having to do it... I believe the steering tube maybe a little slight.. And I was going to try another headset but as you I belive would have had the same issue.....


----------



## vaetuning

*Top bearing issue*



PLAYONIT said:


> Yes that is the fix I used... I had a little play in the bearing but also had to shim the ID bearing to race... It's tight now... But I don't loike the idea of having to do it... I believe the steering tube maybe a little slight.. And I was going to try another headset but as you I belive would have had the same issue.....


Hi playonit

Maybe we should tell Jenny about this problem??

I'm having the same feelings as you about doing that type of fix, but luckily everything else seems to be more than ok:thumbsup: 

By the way - did your frame come with the barrel adjusters for derallieur cabels, or just standoffs for the barrel adjusters??

There were no adjusters send along with my frame!!

Cheers


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## independentmind

PLAYONIT said:


> Yes that is the fix I used... I had a little play in the bearing but also had to shim the ID bearing to race... It's tight now... But I don't loike the idea of having to do it... I believe the steering tube maybe a little slight.. And I was going to try another headset but as you I belive would have had the same issue.....


Hmmm i wonder....

On my current frame i had some play on the fork. Turns out the steerer was peeking up from the spacers just enough that the top cap wasn't actually putting pressure on the spacers but only on the steerer itself (so it wasn't "pulling" the fork steerer up and using the spacers as leverage). Hope this makes some sense.

I trimmed maybe 2mm from the steerer so that it sat slightly under the lip of my top spacer and this fixed the play issue.

I don't know if that would help, but you may want to have a look. Is the steerer lip sticking out slightly?


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## Pirx

vaetuning said:


> Hi Pirx
> 
> The Calipers are from TRP - called 950SL - you can buy them from Chainreactioncycles.
> 
> The groupset is a newcomer from Taiwan called Sunrace. It is their top of the line product called Driven Red NRZ.
> It's weight is lower than new Dura Ace, and somewhat similar to the weight of my Campagnolo Super Record 11sp, Which I use on my Scott frame.
> 
> If you google the following: driven nrz review, you will find a test done on this groupset, and they were quite happy with it.
> 
> I contacted the dutch branch of sunrace, and persuaded them to start selling these groupsets to me, and as they are brandnew in the Red configuration, the first sets will be shipping out around 7. of december, were i'll get mine.
> 
> Furthermore they are sponsoring a scandinavian cycling team next year, so they arre really trying to get in on the market over here.
> 
> If you go to sunrace.com, you'll see that there is 4 branches - try contacting the one nearest to you over the phone, and see if they are willing to sell to you.
> 
> If not let me know and I'll try to help you out
> 
> Cheers


Interesting... Thanks very much for the thorough response!


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## Pirx

Any way to delete a message???


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## Guest

*Response to Shred the Gnards*

I'm new to this thread but I have done a lot of research on these frames and other carbon manufacturers prior to making my purchase. I have no doubt after working with Hong Fu Bikes' Jenny that they are doing a great job and offering a great product for a reduced price. If you review some of the forums on the NEO Exile, it provides some great feedback on the bikes and the quality of their products. No I am not a shill - just someone providing my input after three months of figuring this all out.

To answer the question on 3K, 12K, or UD - I would recommend visiting Storck's website for a description. I did find it interesting that all of the Hong Fu bikes come very close in design to the name brands that are available (i.e. Element, Cervelo, Storck, Kouta, etc.).

As for Hong Fu Bikes, they have provided quick responses to my questions, confirmed and double confirmed my requests for pricing and paint designs. I ended up ordering the FM-006 with a semi-custom paint job. The order was shipped after 6 weeks as they had promised. It is currently on the way here to Colorado.

I will post pictures once it comes in and when it is built up. I will also provide a thorough review on ride quality as I have raced bikes of all materials (except ti) for 18 years. So it will be my honest opinion on the frame and fork.

Attached are some photos to help you see that all the bikes are pretty much the same (the Jamis Xenith has a slight variation at the chainstays but geometry and material are very very close).


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## PLAYONIT

This looks familiar.......


http://norco.com/bikes/road/road/crr-sl/


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## stevesbike

I'm impressed by the ability to determine 2 frames are the same based on a picture, despite the fact that the Cube and Norco don't actually share any geometry with the HongFu. As for the Jamis, that's a big leap. The Jamis is a couple of hundred grams lighter than the HongFu and a few grades of CF higher (the Xenith uses a variety of CF grades, particularly in the BB area to make it one of the stiffest/lightest frames around). 

It's good that you've found a frame you like, but it's silly to start supposing every frame out there is one in disguise.


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## PLAYONIT

stevesbike said:


> I'm impressed by the ability to determine 2 frames are the same based on a picture, despite the fact that the Cube and Norco don't actually share any geometry with the HongFu. As for the Jamis, that's a big leap. The Jamis is a couple of hundred grams lighter than the HongFu and a few grades of CF higher (the Xenith uses a variety of CF grades, particularly in the BB area to make it one of the stiffest/lightest frames around).
> 
> It's good that you've found a frame you like, but it's silly to start supposing every frame out there is one in disguise.


Familiar
(a.) well known or easily recognized; "

Same 
(b.) Identical; alike; Used to express the unity of an object.

Can you see the difference there??


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## stevesbike

The Norco is in fact not familiar by the meaning you just suggested- I doubt it is familiar to anyone in the US since it's a lesser-known Canadian brand. You were using it to imply a comparison to the Hong Fu. This thread is full of insinuations that many expensive brands are really just repainted HongFus, which is a ridiculous charge, particularly when they do not even match in sizing or geometry...


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## stevesbike

it's also kind of odd that you keep singing the praises of a bike that you apparently haven't even ridden or built up yet and had to use a shim to make the headset not rattle due to sloppy tolerances in its manufacturing. Haven't seen that on a brand name frame...


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## PLAYONIT

stevesbike said:


> it's also kind of odd that you keep singing the praises of a bike that you apparently haven't even ridden or built up yet and had to use a shim to make the headset not rattle due to sloppy tolerances in its manufacturing. Haven't seen that on a brand name frame...



Your absolutely right about not riding the bike yet... Hell, I haven't ridden since the early nineties..... But I will say I am having the time of my life enjoying the build with the anticipation of riding a new bike in the spring and getting in the best shape I can for a 52 year old.. The real unfortunate deal here is your pessimistic nature.... If I did a best of "stevesbike" it would be a short list..... I would be willing to bet without even looking that there is a high % of your 2331 posts that is nothing more than negative grandstanding... get out of your ivory tower and quit sucking the life out of us happy people...


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## stevesbike

it's not about pessimism or grandstanding - if you look over the posts I've generated since 2002 you'd see most are detailed ones trying to provide information about fit, training, etc. My negative ones are in response to the growing misinformation about bike manufacturing that your posts and ones in these sorts of threads generate. 

It's great that you're happy with your bike, but it's misleading to others to start pontificating about the bike industry or what these frames represent. The bottom line about these frames is 1) no one has yet sourced where these bikes are manufactured (hongfu does not manufacture them), 2) there is no way to know what grade of carbon fiber is used in these frames. If you believe what an exporter agent in China tells you about the grade of CF then you might as well believe in unicorns, 3) there is no evidence that they conform to any industry standard, at least there doesn't seem to be any certifications for these frames being supplied 4) the fact that a headtube insert is not machined to spec would be extremely troubling to me. This is not something that should vary due to manufacturing tolerances of the frame itself. It's a piece that is machined independently of the bike and inserted during frame manufacturing. Machining and manufacturing tolerances for bike frames is much smaller than most other industries - it's not easy to manufacture them (Dan Empfield's classic 2002 article about the Asian bike biz outlines all this). A piece that requires a shim suggests zero quality control. 5) there's no evidence that two bikes that look similar in pictures are in fact the same frame or are manufactured at the same plant.


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## Rob81

there's a study that reports that people, when they can choose and after taste it buy a 90$ wine bottle instead of a 10$ wine bottle......EVEN if the wine is exactly the same, I guess the same applies to bicycles, and marketing is here for a good reason.
Anyway on Greatkeen there're their certifications, now i want to see the big brands certifications, all of them! 

Why should I trust more a big brand that make build their frames in China/HK/Taiwan and repaint them, than a manufacter that produce these frames OEM and sell them brandless? 
It's more cheesy to sell something for another thing (e.g. the "Italian made" Dogma, LOL) than face the truth!


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## Guest

I guess I need to step in and help Playonit and others with stevesbike's comments. I don't believe that I said that a Hong Fu bike is the same as a Jamis Xenith SL - just similiar. For comparison, the Xenith Pro is the same frame design as the Xenith SL but 300 grams heavier than the Xenith SL (does this put it at a similiar weight as the Neo or FM-006? Yes). I know there are differences. I'm just stating that I find it INTERESTING that they have very similiar designs as does the FM-015 with Cervelo R3. I do not imply that they are made at the same factory or the same carbon layup or curing process. However, if you want to travel to China - Hong Fu is willing to give you a tour of their factory.

All I can tell you is that the Neo Exile (not the Plus or Ultimate), Comtat and the FM-006 are the same. Check out their websites and frame geometry. I have read reviews on those bikes and believed that this would be a better purchase. I agree with the last post - let's see the certifications from the large brand name manufacturers and see what standard they are tested to... Attached is the one from Hong Fu.

Do I have concerns over how the bike is manufactured? Yes, but I am willing to take that risk as there are a ton of uncertainties in any ride out there - regardless of material. Welds fail, lugs separate, frames crack, and on and on. I would prefer to ride a bike from someone who provides great customer service, stands behind their product, and is willing to resolve the issue. If I am not happy with the product that I am about to receive, I WILL be sending it back!

I guess, since I am racing again and paying for things out of my own pocket, I would rather trash a $400-$600 frame than a $2000-$4000 frame that has a 15% discount with a crash protection plan. If I like ride than bonus - if not, I just go back to my current ride until I find something better. It really comes down to the rider. I guarantee that if you put Lance Armstrong on a Huffy and me on a Huffy - he would still kick my ass.

Oh wait, my bike just arrived. Shipped 11/26 at my door in Colorado 12/2. I'll attach some more pictures ver soon. Looks great so far!


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## Rob81

I'm envy on you, my FM015 is still stuck in China!
Which frame have you bought?
Pics are mandatory!


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## Guest

I bought the FM006 with a semi custom paint job (original idea came from Jamis as they had a nice paint scheme). I had it done without the red stripping or any logos.

I am very pleased with the paint job and intentionally held off on ordering some parts (i.e. headset, seat clamp, bottom bracket). There are some areas as others have mentioned that could use some work on painting (i.e. dropouts). I was able to quickly clean these up. There are some transition areas from the Pearl White to 3K carbon that also needed to be cleaned up but if I had red stripping it would have been covered anyway. Their clear coat is flawless. I did do a quick check with the supplied headset fitting and it looks good so far but will upgrade to something better. They supplied me with a NECO headset.

The bike will be built up with full Dura-Ace except for the cranks (FSA Superlights).

I'm having a hard time downloading the pictures. Anyone know how to download it to the forum as it says my pictures exceed the max allowable for this forum?


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## PLAYONIT

ffmacias said:


> I bought the FM006 with a semi custom paint job (original idea came from Jamis as they had a nice paint scheme). I had it done without the red stripping or any logos.
> 
> I am very pleased with the paint job and intentionally held off on ordering some parts (i.e. headset, seat clamp, bottom bracket). There are some areas as others have mentioned that could use some work on painting (i.e. dropouts). I was able to quickly clean these up. There are some transition areas from the Pearl White to 3K carbon that also needed to be cleaned up but if I had red stripping it would have been covered anyway. Their clear coat is flawless. I did do a quick check with the supplied headset fitting and it looks good so far but will upgrade to something better. They supplied me with a NECO headset.
> 
> The bike will be built up with full Dura-Ace except for the cranks (FSA Superlights).
> 
> I'm having a hard time downloading the pictures. Anyone know how to download it to the forum as it says my pictures exceed the max allowable for this forum?



You need to downsize your images..


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## Guest

Thanks Playonit! Attached are the pictures of my new arrival. I will keep you all posted on my build and ride.


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## iherald

it's like Christmas when you see pictures of someone getting one of these bikes. I have a bike I'm happy with, but it's always nice to see these bikes and hearing about what they're like. Keep up the pictures.


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## Dutch77

iherald said:


> it's like Christmas when you see pictures of someone getting one of these bikes. I have a bike I'm happy with, but it's always nice to see these bikes and hearing about what they're like. Keep up the pictures.


+1. I have to say I'm digging these $50 paint jobs. Very cool!


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## Asmodeus2112

*Problems to date survey...*

I'm seriously thinking about taking the leap as many of you have done. So far it looks to me like there's about a 20% defect rate, one fork steer tube failure and one FD hanger failure. Would ya'll that have purchased frames be so kind to give us an update to your satisfaction and/or problems to date?

Thanks in advance...


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## Rob81

I'm happy with mine (bought from bicycle_999 ebay seller). IMHO much better than my Specialized Roubaix and on the same level of a Tarmac for rigidity and road feel. Just the fork (a wave fork ala Pinarello) is not so good in tight handling, probably because of its 45mm rake.
In few days I'll get a new frame (FM015 ISP) and the previous still "all black" frame will become the 2nd bike if this one will be better.
So now I've a Roubaix to sell


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## Rob81

My Fm015 arrived this afternoon
I had an intense day taking out parts from the Roubaix, then swapping these parts to the previous Ebay frame and then swap these latest parts to this new ISP frame.
Here the pics, uncut ISP frame is 1155g in size 51










The chain, as you see, it's the only missing part so far, bartape is temporary, I'll use one black or carbon look. I also need to cut out 6-7 cm from the vertical tube.
So far all fine I've just a problem with the internal rear brake cable: it's very spongy and it seems it's stopped by something. Cable is new. Anyone with this same problem? Tips?


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## Asmodeus2112

Very Nice Rob81. 

I'm hopeing to find someone that can sell the ADK frames. I'm trying to buy a AKFM12...


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## Asmodeus2112

This looks like it!


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## stevesbike

no, it's sold as the pedalforce CG1. All the pedalforce frames are made by ADK


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## Asmodeus2112

*Nope*

Sorry, that's just a HF-FM015-SPL with paint I think. Seems that Hong-Fu is the manufacturere. There site has some nice testing videos claiming that they test to eh EU standards. That's nice to know.

Rob81, if you don't mind me asking how much did your HF-FM015-SPL cost?


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## Asmodeus2112

Hey Stevesbike, the CG1 is sweet, but I don't think it's the AKFM12. Minor differences.


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## Rob81

340€ shipped


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## Tim_D

Hmmm... it's obviously not the same frame, but the new Radio Shack team frame bears more than a passing resemblance to the Hf-015:










Sorry about the crappy Photoshop -- was in a hurry.

BTW, my Hong-Fu order has been a clusterfuck from beginning to end. Two missed shipping dates, and now the frame has been impounded by German customs until I provide all purchase documentation for it.


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## Asmodeus2112

Should ask fatty while he's down in Tucson to snap some pics of the bikes up close. Or maybe I can peak in at Mellow Johnny's throught the glass doors and see. 

Obviously there's no way in hell that they would be the same, but it might be fun to see how much of a difference there is. I haven't looked at trek.com, but is RadioShack riding a stock or custom bike?


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## stevesbike

these 'resemblances' are about as meaningful as saying a ford taurus resembles a toyota camry.


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## hipcheck5

I joined in order to see the pics of these frames as, with a 13 week old baby, no way I can afford a name brand frame and had been seeing these frames on ebay and I wanted to see finished products and get some info. I am posting to make one comment right now...Steve you are one bitter dude when it comes to these Asian frames. I wonder what happened in the past to make you so bitter that you can't allow people to discuss their thoughts or experiences without you ripping them.


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## stevesbike

If you look at my posts you'll see one of my frames is a pedalforce RS2, which I like a lot and compare favorably to big brand frames I own or have ridden. So I have nothing against value frames. But I don't think there should be a ton of misinformation about them either. It's just misleading nonsense to make some of the comparisons people make in this thread about branded frames really being these hongfu ones etc, or to claim that frames come from a few factories and so there's no difference between a 'generic' frame and a Cervelo, Trek, or Specialized.


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## hipcheck5

Kind of reminds of the people who post racist things (not saying you are racist or anything close) and then say "I have a friend who is black." You may own a Pedalforce, but you come off as being very bitter, to the point of refusing to allow anyone to say anything you don't believe without going after them, regardless of where they got the info. Let's just finish by saying you come off as a bitter person who is wrong about things but refuses to admit it and thus must say everyone else is wrong. 

I have made my point, enjoy your weekend.


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## stevesbike

you're entitled to your opinion. For the record, I'm happy to retract things I've said in error - e.g., I thought the ADK frame above was the same as the pedalforce CG1, but that was wrong. What else did I say in this thread that was wrong? As far as I can recall, I was objecting to the claim that the hongfu was the same (or in any meaningful way similar to) the Jamis Xenith SL, the Norco, the Cube, or the Madone. I added my opinion in part because I didn't think a new rider reading those claims should be misled into believing they were true.


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## Asmodeus2112

I agree with most of what Stevesbike has said. I would have a hard time fathoming that a Tier 1 bike mfg like Trek or specialized would not have exclusive rights to a frame if it is being manufactured by a third party manufacturer. However, when we get down into the weeds with some of the Tier 2 and Tier 3 brands, I'm betting that there are some that are using open frames. If you look at ADK's frames, there are several that say "Exclusivity USA" or "Exclusivity Italy". These are more than likely painted and branded by someone in those geos (Any Guesses?). Further, manufacturing something and designing it are two different things. The asian manufacturers are learning quickly, and when you see enough of other peoples designs that you are given to manufacture it doesn't take long until their engineers can make their own designs. 

In the product sheet below, the AKFM09 is Exlusive in Italy. It's a pretty distinctive frame, anyone want to play and figure out who uses it? Or the AKFM12 in the ADK page I posed earlier, it has USA Exclusivity, any guesses? Surely a company wouldn't pay for exclusivity if they aren't putting it on the market. Usually it's the smaller players that can't afford to lock up their designs...:idea:


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## Rob81

One of the exlusivity was a comparison frame I posted before:
Stren frame: 375€
Prestigio, SAME IDENTICAL FRAME: 3700€ here in Italy.
The exclusivity must be not only about shape but on the frame itself, from carbon type to geometry, so that's an almost 1000% recharge on selling price, Prestigio brand is not alone too......


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## Tim_D

Well, it's here FINALLY...

German customs impounded it and made me send all invoices for the sale plus sign a declaration that I would pay all duties. However, it's just turned up here. Still wouldn't surprise me if I get a bill through the post, though.

Mine's the 58cm, and the weights are bang on -- 1150g for the frame, 390g for the uncut fork. That's not too bad -- no heavier than my current Planet X.

However, I ordered 3 headsets, and some carbon spacers. Only got one headset, no spacers.

Pics tomorrow.


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## Tim_D

Yep. Just got a customs bill for nearly €300. The frame only cost €350. I fooking hate living in Germany.


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## Dutch77

Tim_D said:


> Yep. Just got a customs bill for nearly €300. The frame only cost €350. I fooking hate living in Germany.


Man, that REALLY sucks. What did they base that amount on? Hope you enjoy the frame after all that trouble.


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## iherald

Dutch, did you get dinged for customs in Canada?


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## Dutch77

iherald said:


> Dutch, did you get dinged for customs in Canada?


I'm not the same dutch as the guy that got one of these frames. I keep my eye on the thread since I'm interested in getting one down the road. I also live in the US btw.


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## Tim_D

Dutch --

Looking over it, there's a 'Antidumping' charge of €150, on top of all the customs stuff, that appears to be purely arbitrary.

Dealing with German bureaucracy, of course, to sort all this out, will be a royal PITA.


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## Italianrider76

Tim_D said:


> Yep. Just got a customs bill for nearly €300. The frame only cost €350. I fooking hate living in Germany.


Man....i´m all for countries that have high quality socialized medical and education programs like Germany but making you pay somthing like 85% tax on your frame is a joke and a scam.....seriously.


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## Tim_D

Germany doesn't have socialised medicine. Everything is done through private health insurance (which is a legal requirement). It costs around 16% of your GROSS income.

I had five Chinese frames delivered in the UK (despite its detractors, the NHS is one of the better socialised health-care systems), and never paid import duty once.


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## jmarteijn

Also purchased a Carbon frame from ebay seller 88bikefun, but only got charged for 27 euros on customs.

p.s.

Does somebody have any experience with the following rims on ebay from seller : 88bikefun: https://is.gd/5uF2L


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## grole

I did buy a frame and I live in Norway where almost everything is paid by the state. I didn't pay one cent in custom.


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## CabDoctor

jmarteijn said:


> Also purchased a Carbon frame from ebay seller 88bikefun, but only got charged for 27 euros on customs.
> 
> p.s.
> 
> Does somebody have any experience with the following rims on ebay from seller : 88bikefun: https://is.gd/5uF2L


If only I could find carbon tubulars for that price, I would be set for cross!


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## Guest

*Update on Hong Fu Frame w/Review*

I have posted my review on the FM006 frame from Hong Fu, Neo Exile, and Comtat. This was posted on another thread but I have included the link below. My posts with pictures are #86 and #95.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=195733&page=4

Enjoy the review. If you have any questions, please let me know. I provided a honest and thorough feedback on this particular frame. 

Merry Christmas!


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## jmarteijn

Is there nobody who have any experience with the following rims on ebay from seller : bicycle_999, 88bikefun, carbonbicycle.

https://is.gd/5FoPK










Thkx.


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## CleavesF

dude, why don't YOU buy them and tell us how awesome they are. 

Someone has to take the risk first... I mean everyone isn't riding Pedal Forces or Hasa because nobody took a risk.


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## jmarteijn

CleavesF said:


> dude, why don't YOU buy them and tell us how awesome they are.
> 
> Someone has to take the risk first... I mean everyone isn't riding Pedal Forces or Hasa because nobody took a risk.


Who knows!
Allready own the Hasa frame, i'm very happy with it.


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## stevesbike

630 gram per rim? ouch, would be good for downhill time trials...


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## jmarteijn

stevesbike said:


> 630 gram per rim? ouch, would be good for downhill time trials...


40-42mm high aluminium rims normally weight about 600g i thought.


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## stevesbike

it's on the heavy side - heavier than many 60mm rims (zipp 404). For a weight penalty I'd go deeper than 40mm too.


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## Dutch77

jmarteijn said:


> 40-42mm high aluminium rims normally weight about 600g i thought.


No, these are quite heavy. Not a big deal for a flat course, and they are priced accordingly imho. Hongfu's 50mm rims are supposed to be around 420 grams. There's some other things I want/need first, but eventually I do plan on buying a pair of the Hong Fu ones.


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## PLAYONIT

Dutch77 said:


> No, these are quite heavy. Not a big deal for a flat course, and they are priced accordingly imho. Hongfu's 50mm rims are supposed to be around 420 grams. There's some other things I want/need first, but eventually I do plan on buying a pair of the Hong Fu ones.


Yup... the HF rims are right at 420g each... I should have mine built soon...


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## Dutch77

PLAYONIT said:


> Yup... the HF rims are right at 420g each... I should have mine built soon...


Yeah, I remember you bought a pair of those. Looking forward to seeing the build and getting some feedback on them. Did you settle on hubs and spokes yet? I've looked at Soul's hubs, they are supposed to be around 275 grams for 200 bucks. Pair it up with some decent spokes and they should make some decent racing wheels for a low budget. 

There's a couple of things that have higher priority in the cycling budget right now, but I'm curious to try these out.


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## jmarteijn

Dutch77 said:


> Yeah, I remember you bought a pair of those. Looking forward to seeing the build and getting some feedback on them. Did you settle on hubs and spokes yet? I've looked at Soul's hubs, they are supposed to be around 275 grams for 200 bucks. Pair it up with some decent spokes and they should make some decent racing wheels for a low budget.
> 
> There's a couple of things that have higher priority in the cycling budget right now, but I'm curious to try these out.


Sorry to ask, but are those HF 50mm rims full carbon? or does it contain a aluminium brake surface? and what is the price of those rims?


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## Dutch77

jmarteijn said:


> Sorry to ask, but are those HF 50mm rims full carbon? or does it contain a aluminium brake surface? and what is the price of those rims?


I seem to recall full carbon, but the website is down right now and I can't see the pictures. I was quoted:
- $70 shipping
- $240 tubular (pair)
- $340 clincher (pair)

I'd imagine the quoted 420 grams if for tubulars, but maybe PLAYONIT can chime in on that one.


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## Tim_D

*Hong-Fu HF-fm015 Headset Fitting:*

Here's what I've got:










Here's what I've got:

Mine doesn't have a split crown race, but the wide end of a piece of 40mm polypipe worked to bash it into place.

Everything went OK, except for the circlip that fits over the steerer tube and sits in the middle of the upper bearing race. No matter what I did, I couldn't get this to fit. I could push the circlip into the race when it wasn't on the steerer, no prob. but with the two pieces on the steerer -- forget it.

I;ve now fitted the headset using the two shims in place of the circlip, tightened up, and all seems well... although I haven't been out on the road yet.

Has anyone else had a similar problem? Did you solve it? Will I be OK with it the way I've got it now?


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## Tim_D

First Pic of Build:










Campag Record 10s group.

Must say, it takes a bit of getting used to after the more sloping frames that I've had --- it's practically horizontal. The TT length is right for me, though. The smaller frames look to be more sloping, as well. A more aggressive slope would have saved quite a bit of weight, too.

Will do all the crap cabling jobs and chain tomorrow (if I don't have too much of a hangover...)


----------

