# Rim Brake Options / Preferences



## danl1

I'm considering options on a 2005 Trek T1000 tandem. Currently has Avid Shorty 4's behind Tiagra levers. They do slow the bike, but aren't exactly confidence-inspiring. The front is OK, but the rear is (predictably enough) somewhat weaker, and the combination is just a bit less than I'd prefer. The bike is setup for Canti's, isn't drilled for calipers. I don't have a ton of experience with canti / lp / V brakes and non-sales-based opinions are hard to find, so I'd appreciate input on some thoughts: 

-I've 'tuned' the noodle, hanger, arm angles, and straddle to some small benefit. Haven't yet switched out pads beyond the stock Avids. Any other setup tricks I should consider?

I may have an option for a rear disc, if I can dig up a Disc-O adaptor for the frame, and a thread-on adaptor for the hub that will all play nice. Seems like more trouble and cost than I want for right now, but if someone says it's all that, I'll listen. Wouldn't mind help sourcing the parts, especially the Disc-O.

I'm thinking wide-arm canti's might help, but in the rear it could get tight - it's a 46 seat tube in back, and I'm worried about catching a stoker's heel. Thoughts? I don't run racks so that's not a problem, though I do like tossing the bike into the back of the Pilot. They might interfere with that habit, or maybe not.

Are V's with Travel Agents an improvement? I've heard it both ways. 

What about V's with Dia-Compe levers? I'd consider bar-end shifters if it was a winner.

Should add: 325lb team, no touring or mountains. Hills are of the short-but-steep river valley variety.

Thanks.


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## wooglin

The real advantage of Vs is that they're easiest to set up with predictable power. Canti's are tougher to set up, but can get better stopping power in the end. If I were you I'd stick with the canti's for the time being. Put some Kool Stop pads on there and I bet you'll be happy. 

And here's a little reading for you: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-geometry.html


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## joness

I'm running Avid discs on my tandem, but am running cantis on my cyclocross bike. I found that running the Paul's Touring Cantis with salmon colored kool stop pads worked really well for me. Try the pads first as they are cheapest, but then look at the brakes. I have a friend whose cross bike came with the avids and he switched to Paul's with much better results.


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## thinkcooper

Avid ultimate V-brakes with Kool-stop MTB salmon/black pads and travel agents on our Santana work well.

Pic below taken before installing the Kool-stop pads (those pads make a huge difference)


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## J_T

*prefere the V brake*

The V's have two mounting posts. The calipers have one center mount. We're a 325lb team and that make us feel better.

For added power and better adjustability we equiped the Co-Mo Speedster with Shimano XTR V's and the Kool-Stop all black pads. Also added the carbon arched brake booster and that alone made a huge improvement in stopping power. You could actually see the seat-stays flex under braking before I installed the booster. Ultegra levers and travel agents also and no heel interference by the rear admiral.

Hey thinkcooper, are you rolling the Death Ride two-up this year? Reg opens in an hour!


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## Creakyknees

bumping to knock the spammer down a bit


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## danl1

*Why do we get all the spam?*



Creakyknees said:


> bumping to knock the spammer down a bit


Not to bump myself (though something similar has been suggested plenty of times), but just to bury the spam.


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## dankilling

Ive been dissatisfied with V's both with travel agents as well as long-pull (cane creek) levers. The V's always feel vague and squishy to me on the tandem (I've been a MTB'er since the days of cantis so Ive set up plenty to know how to set them up), so Im swapping my Paul's from my cross bike to the tandem. Ill let you know how it goes (I have the T-1000 as well, BTW so it will be a straight-up comparison). It might take a while though since my wife wont ride outside in less than 50-degree weather and Im in PA .


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## thinkcooper

J_T said:


> Hey thinkcooper, are you rolling the Death Ride two-up this year? Reg opens in an hour!


Affirmative on DR, but on my half bike. I'll score a reg off Craig's List like last year though.


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## dankilling

Ok, I did the swap tonight and found out that the rear cable routing is less than desirable for a good canti setup. Basically there is no stop for the cable so I used a seat clamp mounted stop. This left a minimal amount of space to pull cable and I needed to use a straddle that is much shorter than I would prefer, making the brake feel worse than the V setup with the cane creek V-levers. Based on that, Im changing it back to the V because I dont feel that I could get a good enough canti setup in the rear to make braking as strong as I wanted.


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## rodar y rodar

Isn`t there a way you could mount the cable stop up higher on the seat post? Maybe some kind of clamp on thing? If you want to try it and you can`t find anything like that, I could make one for you easy enough.


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## dankilling

I could mount it just above the seat clamp and run the clamp backwards. Seatpost is 27.2 but I dont know if/where something like that is available. Another possibility would be to drill the seatpost for a cable run- Ive seen cross racers do that on occasion but since its my wife's seat and not mine on the line Im hesitant to try it.


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## danl1

dankilling said:


> I could mount it just above the seat clamp and run the clamp backwards. Seatpost is 27.2 but I dont know if/where something like that is available. Another possibility would be to drill the seatpost for a cable run- Ive seen cross racers do that on occasion but since its my wife's seat and not mine on the line Im hesitant to try it.


I have that problem, too. While I'm using yoke wires and low profile cantis so there's enough room, and raising the yoke would only lower the mechanical advantage - I still don't like the seatclamp cable hanger. It's shaped like this:

Only with an angle screw. The noodle ends up either needing to bend a lot to clear the clamp, or be loopy and long to go over the top. Better designs are only a few bucks, but I haven't put an order together that would make sense to get one.

I seem to recall a few years back, someone sold a seatclamp that had a cable stop drilled right into the back side of it. Can't find them for sale today, though.

An aside on the Travel Agents: I ran across a piece of advice to get a straight-run TA and connect it up in front, at the cable stop near the head tube (need to cable tie it to the frame.) Then run a conventional v-brake noodle at the brake. That halves the tension in that long run of cable, reducing the stretch and some of the mushy feeling. I don't know if there's anything to it, but it was an interesting thought.


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