# Colnago Pista 2010/ Motobecane Team Track



## 72guy (Nov 18, 2009)

I'm new to fixed/SS. Came across the Pista and was wondering what you folks think about the bike? I think it's a beautiful bike. It retails for approx $1800. I've seen it as low as $1200 and readily available for $1500. I would want to build it as a SS with flat bars and front brake for city use only. Flat training rides under 50 miles.

Bikes Direct has a Motobecane https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/images/team_track_gallery/
that has a similar look and uses dura ace cranks and chain ring. The Motobecane looks like a very nice bike for 1/2 the cost of the Colnago.

I have no idea how either of these bikes would ride. If you've seen, ridden, or have an opinion on either bike or something else I should be looking at. I'd like to hear what you have to say.

Edit: just came across the TREK T1. Looks like something to consider
https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/road/track/t1/

Regards and Happy Holidays


----------



## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

I don't think that any of those bikes will be good for you on a long ride. They are not meant to be ridden on the road. I'm not even sure that you could ride those frames with an SS setup since it doesn't look like there are holes for rear brakes on two of those frames (the Colnago may not even have front brake compatibility.) 

These are all track bikes and will have track geometry. That means that they will not be comfortable for long distance riding. I think that you would be better off getting either a road bike and converting it or a stock street SS bike.


----------



## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

While the Motobecane at $795 is a good deal, it is NOT a Colnago. Whether the Colnago is twice the bike the Moto is open for debate.

And while the Moto does appear to be set up for front and rear brakes, full-on aluminum or carbon dedicated track bikes generally don't make good street fixies. They're designed and engineered for glass smooth velodromes. Very stiff and long distance comfort isn't part of the design equation.


----------



## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Richard said:


> full-on aluminum or carbon dedicated track bikes generally don't make good street fixies. They're designed and engineered for glass smooth velodromes. Very stiff and long distance comfort isn't part of the design equation.


Agree 100%. The exhileration of instant response will slowly give way to doubts and pre-occupation with small issues, like how to carry your water or how much air to bleed out of your tires to lessen the pain. After a while, the silliness of it all will become apparent and you'll either be looking for another bike (bad) or signing up for track racing (good).  

Colnago does seem to make a street SS/fixed gear more suited to what you want to do:
http://www.bikerumor.com/2009/09/16/2010-colnago-bicycles-road-mountain-and-single-speed/


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

72guy said:


> I would want to build it as a SS with flat bars and front brake for city use only. Flat training rides under 50 miles.
> 
> Regards and Happy Holidays


SS w/ just a front brake? have fun w/ that...:idea:


----------



## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

cxwrench said:


> SS w/ just a front brake? have fun w/ that...:idea:


Nothing wrong with that—if you only have one brake, it better be on the front. Much worse is the freewheel SS with only a rear brake, as seen on thousands of kid's bikes sold all over the country.


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

i'd never ride a bike on the road w/ only a front brake. never. if you're turning and need to stop quickly you're likely to need more traction than you've got available. sure, there are tons of kids bikes w/ rear only brakes, but they aren't generally riding in traffic like an adult on a road training ride. my bmx cruiser only has a rear brake, but i won't put myself in the same situations that i would w/ my road bike. and it's a rear brake, it's very unlikely to put me on my ear if i use too much of it. 
i wouldn't even work on that bike if it came into the shop, purely from a liability standpoint.


----------



## 72guy (Nov 18, 2009)

Thanks for the feedback. It's sounding like I should reconsider my options. As in all things. Beauty alone does not make for a long term relationship.;-)


----------



## 72guy (Nov 18, 2009)

double post


----------



## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

cxwrench said:


> and it's a rear brake, it's very unlikely to put me on my ear if i use too much of it.


How does a front brake put you on your ear? I've ridden my front-brake only fixed-gear bike for many years now and even the most frightful panic stop has not put me on my ear. The only way for that to happen is to brake hard with the front and _simultaneously_ generate a significant forward weight shift, like allowing yourself to slide forward off the saddle. IMO, SS with a rear brake only is much less safe because of the puny stopping power.


----------



## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

wim said:


> Nothing wrong with that—if you only have one brake, it better be on the front. Much worse is the freewheel SS with only a rear brake, as seen on thousands of kid's bikes sold all over the country.


In my experience, a singlespeed (with a freewheel) with only a front brake is really hard to stop, as is a singlespeed (with a freewheel) with only a rear brake.


----------



## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*sure?*

I've ridden a Bianchi Pista and Mondonico Pista on many double centuries, up to 220 miles with 14k climbing. I love the feel and geometry. Come to think of it, though, geometry may not matter much when you do all your climbing standing up.

Using just a front brake works fine. 



waldo425 said:


> I don't think that any of those bikes will be good for you on a long ride. They are not meant to be ridden on the road. I'm not even sure that you could ride those frames with an SS setup since it doesn't look like there are holes for rear brakes on two of those frames (the Colnago may not even have front brake compatibility.)
> 
> These are all track bikes and will have track geometry. That means that they will not be comfortable for long distance riding. I think that you would be better off getting either a road bike and converting it or a stock street SS bike.


----------



## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*front only*



wim said:


> How does a front brake put you on your ear? I've ridden my front-brake only fixed-gear bike for many years now and even the most frightful panic stop has not put me on my ear. The only way for that to happen is to brake hard with the front and _simultaneously_ generate a significant forward weight shift, like allowing yourself to slide forward off the saddle. IMO, SS with a rear brake only is much less safe because of the puny stopping power.


I've ridden pistas with front brake only down 20% grades with hairpin turns. No problem. Sure, get your weight back, but you'd do that on any bike.


----------



## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*suggestion*



72guy said:


> Thanks for the feedback. It's sounding like I should reconsider my options. As in all things. Beauty alone does not make for a long term relationship.;-)


Get what ever motivates you to ride. True, not "beauty alone," but you certainly can ride track bikes on long road rides and enjoy it. I've done it many, many times for about 10 years now. Here are a few examples:

http://www.midcalracing.com/kaiser2004.htm

http://www.midcalracing.com/ccd.htm


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

wim said:


> How does a front brake put you on your ear? I've ridden my front-brake only fixed-gear bike for many years now and even the most frightful panic stop has not put me on my ear. The only way for that to happen is to brake hard with the front and _simultaneously_ generate a significant forward weight shift, like allowing yourself to slide forward off the saddle. IMO, SS with a rear brake only is much less safe because of the puny stopping power.


braking AND turning...the same reason we're taught not to apply front brake while cornering. straight line, no worries. would you ride a motorcycle w/ only a front brake? for normal riding, i'll admit i never touch the rear brake on the moto, but there's no way in hell i'd ride the thing if it wasn't there. 
and Fixed...you're talking about descending on a fixed gear bike obviously...no problem there, you've essentially got a rear brake, (your legs). 
like i said before, w/ a rear brake only i'd just be cruising around town, not actually on a ride w/ any significant terrain that would require lots of braking. you may not stop very fast w/ a rear only brake, but you also won't lose control as you (can possibly) w/ a front only brake.

you really need to have something to slow the rear wheel down, either your legs or a brake. that's all i have to say about this, you can either agree or not.


----------



## Sherpa23 (Nov 5, 2001)

wim said:


> How does a front brake put you on your ear? I've ridden my front-brake only fixed-gear bike for many years now and even the most frightful panic stop has not put me on my ear. The only way for that to happen is to brake hard with the front and _simultaneously_ generate a significant forward weight shift, like allowing yourself to slide forward off the saddle. IMO, SS with a rear brake only is much less safe because of the puny stopping power.


But you're talking about a fixed gear, where at least you have some sort of stopping/traction available for the rear wheel. This dude is talking about a single speed. They are really not fun with just a front brake.


----------



## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*braking*

For riding bikes on skinny little tires, I'd not use front or rear brake while cornering. It's not a whole lot easier to recover from a rear wheel slide than a front on a road bike.

The best reason for a rear brake is that it avoids overheating a front brake alone on long descents. I have melted tubular glue and blown out tubes in the front on certain hills using only a front brake and riding very aggressively.

One time I experimented with how long it would take to stop on a descent using only my legs on a fixed gear. On a long steady 6% grade, it took almost 30 seconds from 25 mph, using all the force I could generate. Not easy.

I'd not use only a front on any bike that freewheels. If you flat the front on a descent, you're really screwed.

There is this: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/fixedb.html#braking

*Braking*









ome fixed-gear riders ride on the road without brakes. *This is a bad idea.* I know, I've tried it. If you do it, and have any sense of self-preservation at all, it will cause you to go much slower than you otherwise could, everytime you go through an intersection, or pass a driveway. The need for constant extra vigilance takes a great deal of the fun out of cycling. 
You really should have a front brake. A front brake, all by itself, will stop a bicycle as fast as it is possible to stop. This is true because when you are applying the front brake to the maximum, there is no weight on the rear wheel, so it has no traction. 
One of the wonderful things about fixed-gear riding is that the direct feel you get for rear-wheel traction teaches you exactly how hard you can apply the front brake without quite lifting the wheel off of the ground. 
This is a very valuable lesson for any cyclist who likes to go fast; it could save your life.
There is really no need for a rear brake on a fixed-gear bicycle. By applying back-pressure on the pedals, you can supply all the braking that the rear wheel really needs. In fact, it is fairly easy to lock up the rear wheel and make it skid, unless you are running a rather high gear. 
Some fixed-gear fans make a point of not using their brake except in an emergency. I am not sure that this is a good idea. Heavy duty resisting is widely reputed to be bad for your legs, and to be counterproductive for building up muscles and coordination for forward pedaling. 
This is a lot like car drivers who use their transmission and clutch to slow down, even though the car has a special set of parts made for the exact purpose of slowing down. Brake shoes are cheaper to replace when they wear out than clutches are.​


cxwrench said:


> braking AND turning...the same reason we're taught not to apply front brake while cornering. straight line, no worries. would you ride a motorcycle w/ only a front brake? for normal riding, i'll admit i never touch the rear brake on the moto, but there's no way in hell i'd ride the thing if it wasn't there.
> and Fixed...you're talking about descending on a fixed gear bike obviously...no problem there, you've essentially got a rear brake, (your legs).
> like i said before, w/ a rear brake only i'd just be cruising around town, not actually on a ride w/ any significant terrain that would require lots of braking. you may not stop very fast w/ a rear only brake, but you also won't lose control as you (can possibly) w/ a front only brake.
> 
> you really need to have something to slow the rear wheel down, either your legs or a brake. that's all i have to say about this, you can either agree or not.


----------



## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

cxwrench said:


> Fixed...you're talking about descending on a fixed gear bike obviously...no problem there, you've essentially got a rear brake, (your legs).


I see your point. But I can also tell you for certain that in my fixed-wheel front-brake panic stops I did not backpedal, and never will. It's not that I don't want to—I just don't have it ingrained in me to back pedal in the panic mode if there's a hand brake to grab.* Be that as it may, my point was more that it's very difficult to do an endo by just pulling the front brake.

*For some strange reason, I've no problems on the track with giving some quick back-pressure when I run up on someone's rear wheel. Perhaps knowing that there is no hand brake sharpens my thinking.


----------



## Sherpa23 (Nov 5, 2001)

wim said:


> *For some strange reason, I've no problems on the track with giving some quick back-pressure when I run up on someone's rear wheel. Perhaps knowing that there is no hand brake sharpens my thinking.


You probably give it a little subconscious up track point as well. It's hard to be a good track racer if you back pedal at all.


----------



## markaitch (Nov 3, 2010)

i came here to post an update in my own old "putting brakes on a ss/fixie" thread but my recent experiences with riding a bike for other purposes than it was originally built & what i've done for brakes on it seem to really fit here...

72guy...i "inherited" a fixed gear urban/trick/freestyle bike from my kid when i was told by the doc to give up mountain biking or risk paralysis. it was my first skinny tire bike in 20+ years. nothing about it is suitable for long-distance road riding but it is much lighter than i am used to & rolls so much easier on pavement than all my mtbs did that if i don't pay attention i will have gone 30-40 miles before i know it. in fact i am concerned that 1 of these days i may end up too far from home to have the strength to ride back.
i am testimony that Fixed gave you good advice - that you can ride a bike not meant for it a long way & enjoy the hell out of it if it is a bike that gets you motivated!

i have spent the last month experimenting with brake combos on this bike. my son only rode it fixed with nada brakes. i installed a freewheel on the flip-flop hub & was determined to add both front & rear brakes. things did not quite work out quite so easily, circumstances dictate that i ride it with 1 brake. 

well, now i ride this thing both ss & fixed all over the place. i tried a rear brake for a short while, it was terrible. then i changed the pads on it & still it was no good. so i got a new caliper & lever for the front & love it! adjusted & used properly it works fantastic whether i am using the cog or the freewheel, in panic or modulated stops. btw...traffic near my house is brutal.

i do not ride with groups (maybe that would change things) but i have got to think that if riding a fg or an ss bike with front brake only causes anyone a problem that they just are not working it very well.


----------



## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Sherpa23 said:


> It's hard to be a good track racer if you back pedal at all.


True. Normally I try to ride offset just a bit so I can overlap, but as time goes on, I lose concentration and I find myself lined up straight behind a rear wheel. And as you said, too many back-pedals and you can just pack it in and go home.


----------

