# H+Son Archetype Wheelset Impressions After Riding and Racing.



## demonrider (Jul 18, 2012)

A few months ago, I posted a thread (linked here) showing images of my then newly built (by LBS) wheelset consisting of H+Son Archetype rims laced to WI T11 hubs with Sapim CX-Ray spokes. After that the wheelset spent time waiting for spring to arrive so I could ride and race them. 

Now that spring is (kind of) here and after a month of mostly racing (road, circuit) and some training rides on the wheelset, I thought I'd offer some impressions I have about them.

Let's get a *DISCLAIMER* out of the way first: I've been riding road for a year now and these are the nicest most expensive wheels I've owned so far. So I might be a little more than biased.

*23mm comfort:* I honestly don't feel it... if I inflate the tires just right, they ride great, if I over-inflate them, they are harsh and bouncy, just like my 20.1mm and 19mm wheelsets.

*Cornering:* This is by far the most obvious advantage of a wider rim, IMO. Cornering fast and extreme is one of my favourite things to do and I noticed the Archetypes being far better in this respect than anything else I have, almost _immediately_.

*Aerodynamics:* I do feel this wheelset to be smoothier, even "slippery" in comparison to others when cutting through a strong wind, but that might have more to do with the CX-Rays than the rims? I'm not experienced or knowledgable enough to tell which of those is the case or whether it's just a placebo...

*Sound:* Nothing to do with performance or durability, but these wheels sound amazing. The rims have a steady and pleasing hum while the CX-Rays make a nice wind cutting sound that other spokes don't.

Other things I noticed: This wheelset handles potholes very well, in fact it seems to just glide over them rather than fall in and out, it's hard to explain.

I'm attaching some images of the wheels, showing *brake track fading*, tire profile with 23mm Vredesteins one with the wheelset on my Argon 18:

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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

Wise choice of wheel components and they look nice on your bike. I really like the look of the archetype rims. But please sit down tonight with your wheels, take a pair of tweezers, and pluck those little rubber nubs off the sidewalls!:thumbsup:


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## tangerineowl (Sep 1, 2012)

Was looking at that exact build recently. Maybe in the future sometime.

Thanks for the write-up.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

Ahh such a beautiful build. Radial lacing on a T11 front is absolutely stunning, and this rim only adds to that. 

Great to hear that you like the build. I do have a question though. Has the braking changed at all now that the finish has worn off? Has braking gotten better, worse, or even changed at all?


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## boneman (Nov 26, 2001)

I've been running the rims since December and there is little change when the anodizing wears off. It took only one 80km ride when wet. I'm using stock Campag blocks and they work fine.


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## demonrider (Jul 18, 2012)

Fignon's Barber said:


> But please sit down tonight with your wheels, take a pair of tweezers, and pluck those little rubber nubs off the sidewalls!:thumbsup:


LoL... I thought they'd go away on their own after a month of racing and riding, but I suppose the tweezers are it!


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## demonrider (Jul 18, 2012)

Zen Cyclery said:


> Ahh such a beautiful build. Radial lacing on a T11 front is absolutely stunning, and this rim only adds to that.
> 
> Great to hear that you like the build. I do have a question though. Has the braking changed at all now that the finish has worn off? Has braking gotten better, worse, or even changed at all?


Thank you. There's no difference in braking whatsoever. As _boneman_ put it, took one 80+km race for the rear wheel's anodizing to wear off, even though I braked little and whatever I did was mostly done on the front; the anodizing on the front wheel's sidewall is still mostly there.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Apr 16, 2013)

Nice! These should hold up well with a disc brake up front!


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

BEEE YUUU TEEE FULL! 

I don't often say this to another man, but you sir, have a lovely bike.

If I may ask, how much was the total wheel build cost?


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## demonrider (Jul 18, 2012)

dnice said:


> BEEE YUUU TEEE FULL!
> 
> I don't often say this to another man, but you sir, have a lovely bike.
> 
> If I may ask, how much was the total wheel build cost?


Thank you, both her and I appreciate the compliment. 

Wheelset cost came to about $750CAD before taxes. I could have saved a bit and gotten it down to less than $700 but I decided to give most of the business to my LBS. I got them the rims because they couldn't source them through their own suppliers for some reason.


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

demonrider said:


> Thank you, both her and I appreciate the compliment.
> 
> Wheelset cost came to about $750CAD before taxes. I could have saved a bit and gotten it down to less than $700 but I decided to give most of the business to my LBS. I got them the rims because they couldn't source them through their own suppliers for some reason.


actually, that is not not bad at all. given the upgrade in both "hotness" and performance, that is money well spent indeed.


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## Newnan3 (Jul 8, 2011)

Nice wheels!! Whats the weight?

And whats your impression on the WI hubs?


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## demonrider (Jul 18, 2012)

dnice said:


> actually, that is not not bad at all. given the upgrade in both "hotness" and performance, that is money well spent indeed.


Cheers. I was looking at Ksyrium Elites or a set of Fulcrums when my LBS suggested HED C2 + T11 hubset. I went with the Archetypes because to me they look better and are much cheaper.


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## demonrider (Jul 18, 2012)

Newnan3 said:


> Nice wheels!! Whats the weight?
> 
> And whats your impression on the WI hubs?


The wheelset is exactly 1502g without the BHS Ti skewers. 

As for the WI hubs, I am very impressed so far. The front hub is probably the smoothest rolling mechanism of any kind I have experienced so far. There is *no* bearing feel/grind of any kind. I really like the sound of the rear freehub and it engages well. Time will tell if the overwhelmingly positive reviews about their longevity are true as I hope to ride the proverbial crap out of this wheelset.


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

What's the spoke count, and how much do you weigh?


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## demonrider (Jul 18, 2012)

Cyclin Dan said:


> What's the spoke count, and how much do you weigh?


I am around 165lb, spoke count is 20f/24r.


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## ronderman (May 17, 2010)

FYI - I just got a pair of these wheels laced to Chris King R45 campy hubs. I'll do a bigger review latter as I'm gonna put some miles on them this week. However, a few quick notes:

*Build: *Mine are 24 front and 28 rear and built by Justin at Luxe and have sapim bladed spokes - I'm 6'3" 200 and I was surprised at how stiff they are.

*23mm rim:* I'm with the OP, I just don't feel anything as it relates to comfort. You can sure tell it's wider when you look down. Cornering I haven't really tried yet so I will reserve judgement.

*Aero: * There is none. I had a DT Swiss 415s and Ambrosio tubualrs and those wheels were just as fast as these wheels. I put on my Cosmic SLR wheels and that is aero - the rim simply isn't deep enough and the bladed spokes are hardly any different than traditional spokes - so don't expect any aero advantage

*Looks:* I like the look of a traditional box section rim - it looks great on all bikes. Not sure I like these, the braking surface is also going to lose the black and go silver and will look messy - so not too happy about that. I didn't have the time or money to stay in the tubular game, but all things being equal - I'd take Campy or Dura Ace hubs laced to Ambrosio rims with vitorria tubes ANY day. I'm riding these wheels with challange crit tires - nice, but not nearly as nice as the aforementioned wheels.

More to come.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

I have nearly the exact build up for my commuter bike ... though I'm using WI disc brake hubs.

At this point with about 500 - 600 miles on them, they are proving bombproof with lots of pothole hits and other impacts. I have a 42 mile round trip commute from Hillsboro-Portland (another Pac NW'er).

The wider rim does make a big difference when moving to wider tires. I run 28c Gatorskin tires and they fit more like a set of 23c tires on narrow rims, not a big "Light bulb" shape.

They do accelerate and climb well for a disc brake set up.

I haven't weighed them ... so I don't know that, however they are a good stiff, durable build that should hold up for a long time.


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