# training time, per week



## TrailNut (May 11, 2004)

*poll: training time (or miles), per week*

Poll: how many hours a week (or miles a week) seems reasonable for a working person, with a family, to train, per week? "training time" to be meant as time spent on fast rides (and running). cat 5/4/3 level (they lump these three together, around here).

i've raced as sport in mtb xc, but i'm new to this road bike stuff...

please, this is a poll or survey: don't beat me up cause i'm a newbe and asked such a subjective question, eh  

and yes, i'll troll around these pages for prior chats on this.

got any free internet sites that has training blog?

this forum has helped me ride more often, each time i read all this chit chat i wanna feel that leg burn and "cough up" my lungs


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## Rich_Racer (Jul 12, 2002)

How long is a peice of string!?

It depends on cat, fitness, goals, commute time, working hours, family commitments, other commitments, etc, etc. I think this kind of thing has been discussed a hundred times on here. Do a search. Answer is somewhere between 4 and 40 hours a week!


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## gopokes (Mar 7, 2003)

You have to determine what is workable for your situation, there is no easy answer. I have a fairly demanding job/career (aren't they all), a family and associated activities, other recreational interests, and a multitude of both recurring and non-recurring obligations. I don't get to ride as much as I would like, but I can usually carve out 5-8 hours a week, if I'm flexible (and creative). Some weeks more, others less. Provided I use my limited training time wisely, I can hold my own recreationally racing Cat4 and mtb sport, or on charity rides and centuries, and I can have fun. More hours would be great, but that's just not in the cards- and neither is upgrading....


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## JPRider14 (Feb 9, 2004)

Umm, I wouldn't lump training times for Cat 5s and Cat 3s together. The racing distances are usually very very different, and thus training times are as well. I did ok as a 5, did well through the 4s, and am now struggling as a 3. As a 5 I was goofy and got through it without much training, but as a 4 I added some structure. Still though, I didn't train much - maybe 10 or 12 hours per week was the absolute most at any point in my season. Did it hinder me? Not really - I was spent at the end of the road races, but isn't that how you're supposed to be? I didn't change my training regime very much, and now my endurance is sub-standard. I've got some whopper road races ahead of me and am pretty sure that'll catch up with me. 

Hmmm, I didn't really answer your question, did I? I'd say get in at least 4 quality hours per week for a 4, and as long as you're not wasting your time, 8 hours is sufficient and 10 hours is plenty. I'll let you know when I figure out what it might be for 3s. That post will be forthcoming sometime next April.


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## Eric_H (Feb 5, 2004)

*Depends....*



TrailNut said:


> Poll: how many hours a week (or miles a week) seems reasonable for a working person, with a family, to train, per week? "training time" to be meant as time spent on fast rides (and running). cat 5/4/3 level (they lump these three together, around here).


It really depends and it is hard to put a number on hours. In my experience, this is what I'll suggest:

1) If training time is limited, focus on quality over quantity. Do the hard work, and don't waste time riding around without structure. Sometimes this means avoiding group rides in order to train alone. As fun as group riding can be, they will usually be one of two things: Hammerfests or Socials. The Hammerfest can be useful at certain times, and so can the Social, but at times they can both be detrimental. For example, some guys who can hammer on the Hammerfests look pretty ordinary in a real race. Why? Because they don't actually think about their training and address strengths and weaknesses. But when there is no real racing at points in the calendar the Hammerfest is useful because it is a race simulation. The Social is great for off-season and base building, and recovery rides in-season, but it is also easy to get sucked into riding 28 km/h for 3-4 hours when one could improve racing ability by doing hill intervals, threshold work, etc, etc and be home in 2 hours spending time with the family.

2) Accept that if one has limited training time, there will be limitations on which races one is competitive in. If the longest ride of the week is 3 hours for endurance, don't expect to rock in a 4 hour race. And if one never does multiple hard days of training in a row, don't expect to go to a big stage race and show well. This is maybe not so important at the cat 4/5 level, but in cat 3 (occasionally) and definitely cat 1/2, one's training time does become a limiter. To race well in cat 4 one-day road races and crits, it can be done on 8 hours a week, easily. For guys with a bit of a gift, this number probably holds true for cat 3 as well, probably 8-10 hours per week. For cat 1/2 races, the hours need to go up to at least 10-12 hours per week with the occasional 15 hour week thrown in, and one has to really be able to accept the fact that at 10 hours per week he will not be pounding the full-time amateurs and pros - I speak with authority on this matter!

3) If you are relatively new and uninitiated to structured training, it might be useful to seek out a coach. Often it is difficult to put together a plan and stick to it without some guidance, because as a relative newbie, enthusiasm can get in the way. You know the story, if a little bit of this is good for me, then a LOT must be better....not always true.

But most important, remember to have fun, that's what it is all about for the part-time cyclist .


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## xcmntgeek (Aug 24, 2002)

Alright, I'll give you a straight forward answer. I'm basking in that oh great time betwen high school and college, being a bum, and racing to much to hold a job (they laugh when I tell them how much time I need off). So, 

Endurance week: 20-24 hours
Intensity week: 18-20 hours
Recovery week: 10-15 hours

I'm a junior and a decent cat 3, and I race jrX mtb 

I'd say the difference between road and mountain is that you can get away with less endurance and more intensity racing road whereas mtb races (at least sport level and above) require a fair bit of endurance to hammer in a TT like situation for 2+ hours. The normal cirt takes less than 1hr.


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## JPRider14 (Feb 9, 2004)

xcmntgeek said:


> Endurance week: 20-24 hours
> Intensity week: 18-20 hours
> Recovery week: 10-15 hours
> 
> ...


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## Eric_H (Feb 5, 2004)

*No disrespect, but...*



xcmntgeek said:


> Alright, I'll give you a straight forward answer. I'm basking in that oh great time betwen high school and college, being a bum, and racing to much to hold a job (they laugh when I tell them how much time I need off). So,
> 
> Endurance week: 20-24 hours
> Intensity week: 18-20 hours
> ...


Someone riding your hours should be a decent *cat 1* . And a junior riding your hours is probably headed for an early burnout. To the initial poster, don't let this post fool you into thinking you need more than 10 hours per week for cat 4. As I said before, it is all about quality, not always quantity. Try to get in one long ride per week of at least 3-4 hours and then focus on quality in your other workouts.

Regarding the endurance difference between road and MTB racing, I disagree. Yes, MTB races are basically TT efforts that last for 1.5-2.5 hours. But this again is much different than road races where you have to be able to put a maximal power effort in the 4th hour of racing, or sustain a TT-like effort after 3 hours of racing. There is a reason why most pro/elite road racers do 25-35 hour training weeks. First, they have to be able to handle the volume required, and then they have to be able to produce race-winning efforts within that volume. Comparing pro MTB to pro road, I can guarantee you the road racers do more volume and their endurance capacity and efficiency is greater.


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## TrailNut (May 11, 2004)

*xc and road racing*

i've raced (but have not experienced - yet - "podium familiarity") at Beginner and Sport level in MTB XC races (around 20 to 29 miles) for the past few years, in Northern California (Downieville XC used to be my favorate)...and one observation about xc racing is that while suffering's plenty during the climbs, the descending sections allow time to recover a bit, so mtb xc seem relatively not teh more constant pain of road training. also, mtb xc (at Sport Level) seems more "laid back" while crits and road races appear, to me - a road novice, to be more intense.

i'm looking forward to road racing (with a club) not only as another exciting venue, but also as a step to getting more fun (with intensity) out of mtb xc racing.


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## kingfurby (May 9, 2004)

TrailNut said:


> i've raced (but have not experienced - yet - "podium familiarity") at Beginner and Sport level in MTB XC races (around 20 to 29 miles) for the past few years, in Northern California (Downieville XC used to be my favorate)...and one observation about xc racing is that while suffering's plenty during the climbs, the descending sections allow time to recover a bit, so mtb xc seem relatively not teh more constant pain of road training. also, mtb xc seems more "laid back" while crits and road races appear, to me, to be more intense.
> 
> i'm looking forward to road racing (with a club) not only as another exciting venue, but also as a step to getting more fun out of mtb xc racing.


I think you're underestimating the intensity of off-road racing. Racing at the expert level takes more endurance than most people have. To be able to race competitively for two hours, you pretty much have to train for at least two hours a day. To train for criteriums, even some1/2 races, you do not need that much endurance. Here in the midwest 90% of our races are criteriums of less than one hour (the exception being Superweek, but those races are not in my region). There are countless "fat" 3's I race against that would get torn to shreds if they tried to race off-road. On the other hand, experts who hit the road usually have immediate success up to about the cat 3 level. Expert level races are marathon-length, they are a whole different level of pain than criteriums and many road races. Though I will admit that there are some hilly road races with crosswinds that are as tough as anything I have ever done. I just wanted to point out that there are some criterium specialists who train more for speed and power than endurance, and they do just fine when sticking to their specialty.


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## Eric_H (Feb 5, 2004)

*More thoughts*



kingfurby said:


> I think you're underestimating the intensity of off-road racing. Racing at the expert level takes more endurance than most people have. To be able to race competitively for two hours, you pretty much have to train for at least two hours a day. To train for criteriums, even some1/2 races, you do not need that much endurance. Here in the midwest 90% of our races are criteriums of less than one hour (the exception being Superweek, but those races are not in my region). There are countless "fat" 3's I race against that would get torn to shreds if they tried to race off-road. On the other hand, experts who hit the road usually have immediate success up to about the cat 3 level. Expert level races are marathon-length, they are a whole different level of pain than criteriums and many road races. Though I will admit that there are some hilly road races with crosswinds that are as tough as anything I have ever done. I just wanted to point out that there are some criterium specialists who train more for speed and power than endurance, and they do just fine when sticking to their specialty.


I agree. When I discuss training for road racing I am for the most part discussing road races, not criteriums, because that is my area of interest. I ride a few crits each year, but I don't really focus my training or my efforts on being a successful crit rider. Something about a significant lack of fast-twitch muscle fiber mixed in with combination of wisdom/fear that old(er) age brings . There are always guys who can be successful criterium riders on a minimum of high-intensity training and little endurance volume.

Lest you think I speak without experience in the MTB world, I have raced Expert class MTB (reasonably well) in the past. I currently race P/1/2 events on the road, with the occasional Masters A race thrown in. I work 40ish hours per week, have a wife, no kids, and a house undergoing renovations.


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## travis200 (Oct 29, 2002)

I work a 40-48 hr week and have a wife. I am a cat 5 racer and put in around 12-15 hrs a week riding during the longer daylight times of the year. I put in 200-250 mpw. I would love to ride more but I have a life other than working and riding so it does take a toll on me.


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## xcmntgeek (Aug 24, 2002)

Eric, No disrespect taken at all. I've begun to find out what works for me (along w/ the help of my coach) and I stick to it. Last year I started to hit some bigger races and get semi-serious about the sport. I used to pull about 10-15 hours a week. Two things changed that: I did a UCI jr only stage race called L'Abitibi in Canada and got murdered. I'm a very competitive person and it pissed me off to no end- I decided that I don't want that to happen again. I also raced expert 19-29 mtb races all of last year except for a few select big jr races. Again, got killed but learned a lot. Burnout isn't an issue because I'm careful to watch for it. My first "goal" race of the season ended Monday. I've taken this week real easy (a whopping 4 hours of JRA so far) just to make sure; and I want nothing more than to get training again.

JPrider- Err, sorry missed that part. I do feel you though- worked all fall/winter to pay for this years bikes. Got off at 10:30, did intervals on my mtb on a local rails-to-trails till midnight, then got to do homework. I'll have pleanty of time to sleep when I'm dead...

If the University of Utah, Salt Lake City, has a cycling team I'll be racing for them. If not, I'll start one. It's going to be a big move from hickville, MO.


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## Eric_H (Feb 5, 2004)

*Abitibi, eh?*



xcmntgeek said:


> Eric, No disrespect taken at all. I've begun to find out what works for me (along w/ the help of my coach) and I stick to it. Last year I started to hit some bigger races and get semi-serious about the sport. I used to pull about 10-15 hours a week. Two things changed that: I did a UCI jr only stage race called L'Abitibi in Canada and got murdered. I'm a very competitive person and it pissed me off to no end- I decided that I don't want that to happen again. I also raced expert 19-29 mtb races all of last year except for a few select big jr races. Again, got killed but learned a lot. Burnout isn't an issue because I'm careful to watch for it. My first "goal" race of the season ended Monday. I've taken this week real easy (a whopping 4 hours of JRA so far) just to make sure; and I want nothing more than to get training again.


Cool that you have raced Abitibi (I am Canadian). How many times did you crash? Just about every junior I have known that has gone there ends up in a crash. Something about 120 juniors and rough Quebec roads.

I was not trying to be prick with my earlier statements, glad to hear you have a coach he/she will keep tabs on your youthful enthusiasm. Enjoy yourself, riding and training fulltime is awesome. I only wish I had started competitive cycling earlier so I could have enjoyed a few years of full-time training/racing, before getting sucked into the real world!


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## xcmntgeek (Aug 24, 2002)

Eric_H said:


> Cool that you have raced Abitibi (I am Canadian). How many times did you crash? Just about every junior I have known that has gone there ends up in a crash. Something about 120 juniors and rough Quebec roads.


I'm not sure how many jrs were there (150? 160? maybe more, there were a lot of teams) but it was way to many. I crashed in every stage that wasn't a TT. When you put that many juniors onto a crit course with a race that fast it gets ugly. It's pretty humbling to see how fast those euro guys were, but it was cool to talk to them in the peleton. 

Where are you from in Canada? I'll always remember northern Quebec for its innumerable trees and a lot of rain


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## MShaw (Jun 7, 2003)

TrailNut said:


> Poll: how many hours a week (or miles a week) seems reasonable for a working person, with a family, to train, per week? "training time" to be meant as time spent on fast rides (and running). cat 5/4/3 level (they lump these three together, around here).
> 
> i've raced as sport in mtb xc, but i'm new to this road bike stuff...
> 
> ...


You CAN be competitive in the 5/4/3 (3 not so much...) by focusing on quality vs. quantity. If you have 60-90min/day and a few (2-4) hours Sat AM, you'll do fine. The trick to the minimalist training schedule is that those hours need to be spent productively, not JRA. Check out Joel Friel's book for specific schedules/workouts.

HTH,

M


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## Fogdweller (Mar 26, 2004)

*Training and Family*

I'm blessed with a 2 block commute, a cool boss that never keeps me past 5pm and a hand-full of 1.5 hr burner rides to keep it interesting. I often drive to work to save time so that I can be on the bike at 5:10. I drive home at lunch to prep dinner, lay out my riding gear, pump up tires and mix the Cytomax. On the road after work, pray for a flat-less ride, home at 6:30, dinner on the table at 7 still in my riding shorts when the wife and baby get home. Combat shower to wash the pits and bits (no shampoo the hair) and towel dry in about 5 minutes, do the dishes, play with the baby for 30 minutes, get his jammies on. Pass-off to the wife who nurses him down. 1 hour of TV and to bed. Repeat twice more then take a rest day. Does that sound more like a family man's training schedule?

I have a hall pass to ride with my crew on Sunday mornings but it's expected that I'm home by 10am, so to do any kind of distance, I'm leaving at first light (5:30am) getting in an hour and a half, meeting the lads at 7 for our usual 40 mile burn and then home. So, to summarize, here is my week:

Sunday - Hard distance - 50-60 miles, long pulls, push climbs, 4 hours
Monday - Rest Day
Tuesday - 5:30-7am - shower, feed baby and get to work by 8
Wed - Friday, 5-6:40pm two days are all climbing, one day is mostly flat spinning.
Saturday - Rest day
Average Time/Miles ~130miles/~10 hours
If we're meeting friends for dinner after work, I do 40 minutes on the turbo trainer with eyes fixed to the heart monitor. Without fail, the ride gets done. If I'm late, I'm late but the ride comes first.

I haven't raced since the late 80s but mostly do a few double centuries each summer and the Markleeville Deathride (a humbling experience at any age or condition...) to keep some goals on the horizon. Basically, you must find miles/time where you can and be highly organized to be able to ride them. Since family life grants you such a narrow window to be on the bike, your entire attitude must be in anticipation of starting the ride (4 hours until I ride, 2.5 hours until I ride, 40 minutes until I ride...) Hope this helps.


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

*I'd agree, his recovery week....*

has more hours in it than I have EVER done in one week, period. I race expert MTB and still wanting to get my feet wet into some road racing.
Last year I was averaging at best 7-9 hours a week training, but this year with the birth of our 3rd child, I was down to about 2 hours a week and luckily have been gradualling increasing my time and am up to about 6 hours a week.

KMan



JPRider14 said:


> xcmntgeek said:
> 
> 
> > Endurance week: 20-24 hours
> ...


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## bimini (Jul 2, 2003)

*Depends on event*

If it crit racing then you can get by with as little as 8 hours in the saddle a week when in maintenance mode. Out at least 5 days a week for at least an hour. You may need to spend more time doing longer low intensity rides early in the season to build your aerobic base. Your training rides need to be longer than the event but normally not as intense.

If it's road racing you can get by with 10-12. Most road races at the Cat 4-5 level run about 1 1/4 to 2 hours. Your training rides need to last longer than the event at least 5 days a week.

Cat 3 road racing is a different story. It's a whole new level of commitment to the sport. Races are longer, 50 to 100+ miles. You got to spend a lot more time in the saddle to do well here (at least, so I heard, I'm just now turning Cat 4).

Again, plan on putting in more time than this the first month or two before your season starts to establish base. Once you get through base, your volume should drop off but you should be doing intervals every other day or so at high intensity with recovery rides or rest days inbetween. 

When you get to the maintenance stage and are racing you can dial down the training intensity a little and keep the volume modest.

There are some very good books and such out there on training. If you have a full schedule you need to train smart. Me, I'm the unstructured sort so don't listen well to my own advice.



TrailNut said:


> Poll: how many hours a week (or miles a week) seems reasonable for a working person, with a family, to train, per week? "training time" to be meant as time spent on fast rides (and running). cat 5/4/3 level (they lump these three together, around here).
> 
> i've raced as sport in mtb xc, but i'm new to this road bike stuff...
> 
> ...


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## sherpa (Feb 11, 2004)

*Commuting to work is my secret*

I am a cat 4 racer (trapped in a cat 3 body ) ... 
I typically finish in the top-15 in most cat 4 races. 
I hope to upgrade to cat 3 in the next 12 months.

I work a full time job and have 2 kids (3 and 5 years old) --- I am very involved with my children, they are way more important than any bike or job. 

The key for me is commuting. I work 17 miles from home -- I ride to work and back every workday, pretty much no matter what the weather is doing from March though mid-October -- I live in a sometimes cold climate (Vermont). So at a minimum, I am on a bike 2 hrs/day, 5 times a week. 

Commuting is great because you have to get to work anyway. And on a bike, I'm using up only an extra 40 minutes each day to get to work, but I get my workout in ... compare this to going to a gym, golfing, boating or whatever vice your peers may have -- an extra 40 minutes a day to "do your thing" is small -- 20 minutes longer getting to work, 20 minutes longer getting home ... presto, you're fit. 

I ride 10-15 hours a week (200-250 miles).
I have a coach. I do 2 "hard efforts" a week. My training plan is structured.
I pass on taking long weekend group rides because it's not fair to my kids. They want me around on weekends. So I often ride only one day on weekends.
I race one or 2 days a month (for a total of 12 days a year).
I race with a team -- they are kind enough to understand my commitments.

Group rides don't really work for me -- they get stretched out time-wise; you know people arrive late, you sometime drive to the meeting point, etc .... I ride from home, doing my training, and get back home. 

It may seem extreme, but cycling does a lot for me mentally -- and as a person with time commitments and family commitments -- being a slightly non-social cyclist is what works for me. Don't get me wrong, I don't shun riding with people -- but I don't seek it out either -- I just don't have the time.


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