# Do you listen to music while you ride?



## STLBILLY (Aug 1, 2012)

Just like the title says, "Do you listen to music while you ride?".

New to the game, and I have wondering if this is a NO NO in the cycling world or if its okay. I have one of those handle bar mounts for my Iphone (is this a NO NO) and listen to Pandora while I ride, I dont see many other riders with ear-buds in and that may also be because they are with a group.


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## RyleyinSTL (Aug 6, 2012)

Check this out - http://forums.roadbikereview.com/commuting-touring-ride-reports/music-while-riding-288286.html

My opinion: Don't do it, large of a safety concern....particularly in a place like STL were most drivers are rubbish and road cycling somewhat obscure.


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## Bremerradkurier (May 25, 2012)

Only on solo rides way back about 20 years ago on rural Texas roads around San Angelo-on the ranch roads there, you could count the number of cars on the road without having to take your socks off.


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## Jagtec1 (Jul 17, 2011)

I work in an ER, and see plenty of cyclists/runners/walkers get clobbered by vehicles because they could not hear them coming. Does this info help?


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

I would never ride with music in my ears. Sometimes you need your ears to help your eyes that can't see all around you at once.


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## stockwiz (May 29, 2012)

never used to, but I do now and have no plans to stop. I live in a rural area however. And it's never loud enough that I can't hear approaching vehicles.. more like a background noise that's almost drowned out by the wind when going fast enough.


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## seemana (Jul 1, 2009)

Never.


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## bobbydeethree (Jun 23, 2010)

*No ear buds*

Many of the big organized rides with upwards of 2,000 to 4,000+ cyclists in Colorado have a written ban against ear bud usage. I have seen some riders employ just one bud so they can hear out of the other ear.

I like listening to an Ipod budless with the volume of the micro speakers turned up to full volume. I have the unit in my left jersey pocket with the speakers pointed up. Sometimes when I am passing another cyclist they will comment, "I wondered where that music was coming from."

I have never had a derogatory comment. In fact, the sound (even on full volume it is not very loud) works as a warning to a cyclist that someone is gradually overtaking them.

However, if the cyclist being overtaken had earbuds at full volume, my spoken "on yer left" might not be heard let alone the sound of my soft music.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Never have, never will. Am not a safety nazi—just can't see why I would want to.


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## bikejockey (Aug 6, 2010)

Never have, but did think about it. I've been buzzed too much to ride with a noise distraction.


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## demonrider (Jul 18, 2012)

I have earbuds on about 95% of the time, even while riding in heavy traffic conditions in the middle of the city. At the same time, I am one of the safest riders on the road. I make it a point to stop or slow to a crawl at every stop-sign, I wait until red lights go green and I never assume I've been seen until I make eye contact with the driver of the car. And more to topic, I can hear any car approaching me from about 20-30 feet behind me despite having earplugs on, I keep the volume of the music low enough.

What's the use of hearing and seeing everything when riders are going to run stop signs, red lights and zig zag between moving traffic? Move your head, make eye contact with drivers, keep track of traffic signs and lights around you, respect vehicles and don't surprise their drivers, obey the rules and be patient, earbuds matter only if you deliberately ride blindly.


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## rgc52 (Jul 25, 2011)

add me to the never list


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## MercRidnMike (Dec 19, 2006)

Not in my ears....ear buds don't let you hear enough ambient sound.

I don't want to sound like a shill for them (but in reading thuis through before I post it, I know I am coming across as a bit of one) but I have been using Otis Safe Sounds on my helmet. The are little speakers that mount on the helmet and tie into your player...more akin to having a radio on in the car....you can still hear the ambient sounds, but can also get the tunes as well.

I tried a handlebar speaker thing....wasn't all that good and everyone around me had to hear what I was listening to.

I do like having tunes on a long ride, but I agree with a lot of folks here: earbuds are dangerous and not the way to do it. If I don't have my helmet with the Otis (or others that are similar) speakers on it, the it is no tunes for me. Heck, I think there are mtb helmets out there with small speakers built in...maybe there is something similar for road biking? 

Regardless, if you're going to ride with tunes, make sure you can hear the ambient noises around you....better that your music is drowned out by the ambient sounds rather than the other way around.


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## aureliajulia (May 25, 2009)

demonrider said:


> I have earbuds on about 95% of the time, even while riding in heavy traffic conditions in the middle of the city. At the same time, I am one of the safest riders on the road. I make it a point to stop or slow to a crawl at every stop-sign, I wait until red lights go green and I never assume I've been seen until I make eye contact with the driver of the car. And more to topic, I can hear any car approaching me from about 20-30 feet behind me despite having earplugs on, I keep the volume of the music low enough.
> 
> What's the use of hearing and seeing everything when riders are going to run stop signs, red lights and zig zag between moving traffic? Move your head, make eye contact with drivers, keep track of traffic signs and lights around you, respect vehicles and don't surprise their drivers, obey the rules and be patient, earbuds matter only if you deliberately ride blindly.


My sister is an alcoholic, though she doesn't think she is. And, she believes she drives a car better after drinking (which is always) because she is more careful and concentrates more.

You remind me of her.


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## demonrider (Jul 18, 2012)

aureliajulia said:


> My sister is an alcoholic, though she doesn't think she is. And, she believes she drives a car better after drinking (which is always) because she is more careful and concentrates more.
> 
> You remind me of her.


LoL... hey I can see riders without earbuds acting far crazier than me; I'm usually the only one waiting at the lights, next to someone with a Surly LHT or some other seasoned and well travelled rig.


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## yuris (Oct 4, 2011)

I used to do it when i just started, don't do it anymore. Pay attention to the road, if you are bored check out changing scenery - one of the reasons I like riding vs the gym.


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## aureliajulia (May 25, 2009)

demonrider said:


> LoL... hey I can see riders without earbuds acting far crazier than me; I'm usually the only one waiting at the lights, next to someone with a Surly LHT or some other seasoned and well travelled rig.


Exactly what she would say.


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## Herbie (Nov 12, 2010)

I bought my wife a small handle bar bag with speakers built into the top. I got major props for this small purchase. She loves it.

As for me only music is what I am singing in my head where I have perfect pitch, and never miss a note.


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## El Scorcho (Dec 14, 2005)

I will on occasion and only when solo. The route also has a lot to do with it, we have good rural options here and on an early morning I might see 6-8 cars in 2+ hrs. 

I have never thought that being able to hear cars coming changes the way I ride. Can you tell just by listenening if the driver is paying attention and is going to hit you? I can't.


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## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

STLBILLY said:


> Just like the title says, "Do you listen to music while you ride?".


Strictly speaking, no. But I do often (always?) listen to audio books when I'm pounding out miles. Right ear only. Conversational volume.


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## arai_speed (Aug 19, 2003)

Depends on the ride - with friends in/around the city no but on rural roads and solo, hell yes!


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

arai_speed said:


> Depends on the ride - with friends in/around the city no but on rural roads and solo, hell yes!


Me too.


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## bghill (Apr 5, 2010)

Yes, on solo rides. I'm still alive to talk about it too.


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## ph0enix (Aug 12, 2009)

Nope. The roads are dangerous enough as it is. No need to add another factor.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Currently into Judas Priest.


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## Icetech (Aug 13, 2012)

I will only ride with music... seems to keep my mind occupied. BUT i only ride on local trails, never on the actual road. People here text and drive so much that i see a few people bounce off curbs daily and i don't want to be that curb

P.S. a friend told me bout songza last week and i LOVE it.. like pandora but totally free and no commercials without playing the same songs over and over


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## poff (Jul 21, 2007)

Listen to audiobooks while riding, they are not loud and I am aware of everything around me.


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## Love Commander (Aug 20, 2009)

arai_speed said:


> Depends on the ride - with friends in/around the city no but on rural roads and solo, hell yes!





looigi said:


> Me too.


Ditto. Especially riding in the dark during the winter.


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## Erion929 (Jun 10, 2010)

demonrider said:


> I have earbuds on about 95% of the time, even while riding in heavy traffic conditions in the middle of the city. At the same time, I am one of the safest riders on the road. I make it a point to stop or slow to a crawl at every stop-sign, I wait until red lights go green and I never assume I've been seen until I make eye contact with the driver of the car. And more to topic, I can hear any car approaching me from about 20-30 feet behind me despite having earplugs on, I keep the volume of the music low enough.
> 
> What's the use of hearing and seeing everything when riders are going to run stop signs, red lights and zig zag between moving traffic? Move your head, make eye contact with drivers, keep track of traffic signs and lights around you, respect vehicles and don't surprise their drivers, obey the rules and be patient, earbuds matter only if you deliberately ride blindly.



I'm in this camp, too. You can still ride your ride without getting lost in the music....anyone who gets so lost in their music on any road is asking for trouble. It really isn't difficult to separate your riding environment from some background music....your eyes should still be roving and identifying potential issues, and you CAN still hear.

If the music is at mild volume and you don't shove the earbuds into the ear canals to achieve the concert hall ambiance, you can still hear cars fairly easily. I can always hear when cars are approaching behind me...I assume they are, anyway.

For some reason, some people think when you put music in your ears you automatically become a head-bobbing Stevie Wonder 

Hearing impaired people drive cars without any evidence of higher accident rates....they just have to pay attention.

As for the experience itself, on rides over 30 minutes by yourself, especially on light traffic roads, it can definitely break up any boring periods and make the journey more pleasant.

**


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## jfwhit (Aug 8, 2012)

I listen to talk show podcast with only one ear bud. I only ride on asphalt trails around lakes near my home. Plent for me for now. If I were to ride more on the roads, I would not.


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## chudak (Jul 28, 2012)

I do a lot of my mid week rides on a closed MUP around one of the local reservoirs. 99% of the traffic is cyclists, runners and walkers, with the rare city service vehicle. I wear earbuds when I'm doing this track because it breaks the monotony of seeing the same old thing over and over; the loop is 6 miles so I generally do 3-5 laps.

When I'm out on the road, either solo or on group rides, I don't wear earbuds because I feel that I need to be aware of my surroundings more than when I'm on a closed course.


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## dougclaysmith (Oct 17, 2009)

The only time I do is on a solo ride on a paved path that is a 7 mile loop and cars are not allowed. And, only on weekdays without many other cyclist around. Even then I use ear buds that are very easy to pull out when I come up to pass someone. 

Never ever on the road, in a group ride, or with any other cyclist around, Too unsafe, you can't hear cars coming up on you, and you tend to lose your safety edge as you kind of get into a bit of trance.


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## JRide6 (Aug 3, 2012)

I actually tried riding with earphones on my MTB but felt very odd doing so. I could hear cars coming up behind me but I still didn't feel comfortable in doing so. I do not currently ride with headphones but really miss music during my rides. I run with headphones all the time with no problem and music really helps motivate me. 

I just ordered a quad lock mount for my bike so I guess I'll be one of those jerks who plays music through my iPhone speakers... :ihih:


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

Here are just a few thoughts on this issue:

1. One's hearing while riding can be very deceptive. Anti-headphone people fail to recognize this.
2. Riding in a pack without headphones is much more dangerous than riding alone with headphones. Applying this anti-headphone logic, cyclists should not ride in packs. Indeed, they should all ride slower, not ride downhill, not ride in the rain or maybe just not ride at all. It is dangerous.
3. The anti-headphone people get really hot and bothered by MUT users that allegedly can't hear them while passing. These people just don't want to deal with passing safely by giving up their precious flow, something which cyclists depend on when it comes to cars.
4. Wind noise, wind noise, wind noise.
5. Many anti-headphone people are righteous about how cyclists should enjoy their ride, arguing that listening to the sounds of nature is the best way to enjoy a ride. What a load of bunk. I don't like the sounds of nature. I also don't like anchovies.
6. Statistics show that the vast majority of bike accidents arise from in front of the cyclist, where things can be seen and sight being the most important sense by far.

At the end of the day, outside of riding in a group, wearing headphones that don't block all hearing and that are used at a reasonable volume is simply not more dangerous. In a group it is not such a good idea for various reasons.


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## Sean.B (Jul 20, 2012)

I always ride with music, though the only real road riding I do is down in Deleware/Maryland on Rt. 1 where there are separate bike lanes. The rest of my riding is on multi-use paved trails, where the only thing that will run me down from behind is someone else on a bike.


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## quikrick1 (Sep 28, 2011)

I don't.
It's not just the sound of cars. It's also the quietness of my bike. I can't stand ANY Noise coming from my machine. With earbuds I can't hear the subtle mechanical sounds that let me know that all is well or not. 
I need to hear if a deraileur needs trimming, I need to hear the hiss of a tire going flat etc. etc.


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## cobra6696 (Aug 22, 2012)

nope.. i just sing along in my head lol


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## Blackbeerthepirate (Apr 26, 2011)

I just listen to the music of the road...... The chirping of birds, the croaking of frogs, the whistling of half filled beer cans flying by my head (I swear I can hear the difference between beer and malt liquor), the operatic tones of drivers and their passengers screaming at me (Did that guy just call me Mary Cohen?), the melodic honk, honk, honk of the cars, the, hey look at me, sad little rumble coming from those coffee can exhausts....

Why would I want to miss any of that?


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## MXL (Jun 26, 2012)

Yes, I do when riding solo.


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

Jagtec1 said:


> I work in an ER, and see plenty of cyclists/runners/walkers get clobbered by vehicles because they could not hear them coming. Does this info help?


So you are saying if I dont listen to music I will suddenly have the ability to hear cars coming and know the difference between whether they are going to pass me by or run into me?
AND, if I am able to tell that they may be going to hit me I suddenly have an improved ability to get out of their way?

Doubtful at best.

I listen to music when I ride but only in one ear (the one closest to the gutter/sidewalk).


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## Erion929 (Jun 10, 2010)

CycoBob said:


> I tried music recently. *While it was nice, I did have a few cars sneak up on me-* ones I definitely would have heard had I not had phones in my ears (And I have a mirror!).
> 
> Some suggested that the earphones actually make it easier to hear cars on windy days. I did not find that to be the case.
> 
> After 2 or 3 rides with music, I gave up the idea.* I like to know whenever a car is going to pass me*, and I often hear them before I'd see them, because I don't constantly look in my mirror.



And NOTHING happened, right?  If you keep a fairly tight line, in the bike lane or in the shoulder, why do you need to know about every car that is going to pass you? Cuz they all are going to. And if one's going to hit you, you really can't do anything about it unless you're going to look backwards all day long. As one poster suggested, if you want to listen lightly to music but feel the need to listen to all traffic, too, just put in one earbud on the right side.

**


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## Endoman68 (Aug 13, 2012)

I say just be careful when riding while listening to music with one or two earbuds or speakers. I've thought about it more with mountain biking, and I do see it more on the trails, than on the road. I went riding this evening around the lake twice, and some of the riders said on your left, and there was a fast group and others that didn't say a word as the passed. Me-I would just do ear buds because I like what someone else said about not letting the whole word know what your are listening to. I have even seen some of the hydration packs in their product description that there is space for your mp3 player and headphone if that tells you anything.


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## markrhino (Nov 28, 2011)

I also work in a major trauma centre. Generally cyclists who get hit are either not wearing enough visible clothing or lights and/or are not concentrating (or not riding defensively).
Wearing earphones makes little difference. If a vehicle is going to plow into you from behind, whether your listening to music or not, its not going to make any difference. 
Be visible, be alert, ride defensively.


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## Majuranji (Aug 22, 2012)

Nope, haven't done it yet


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## Yolajeff (Aug 24, 2011)

I use and really like:

Amazon.com: Cy-Fi Wireless Sports Speaker for iPod (Black): MP3 Players & Accessories

I live in rural GA and most of my rides are solo. I never play music on group rides (speaker comes on and off really easy).


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## 41ants (Jul 24, 2007)

Only in the gym


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## Reacto907 (Jul 30, 2012)

I ride with music everyday but only on dedicate bike paths and never ever on roads or when I'm riding with a group.

Keeps me motivated on my solo rides


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## ExChefinMA (May 9, 2012)

I tend to listen to music on solo rides, single ear though. I like hearing what I can around me and the volume is never high, just enough to hear the song. I feel that regardless of what is in my ears, I am still responsible for being aware of my surroundings, this means checking behind me in front of me and to the sides. 

My father had his private pilot’s license when I was growing up, I learned how to scan the horizon for traffic, how to read multiple instruments as well as communicate via the radio (with headphones) comparatively riding a bike and listening to music is like walking and chewing gum. 

When I am riding with others, I like the conversation and interactions we have, makes the ride that much more satisfying.

As always, your mileage may vary.


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## perryrl (Aug 20, 2012)

I ride on a military installation and on the perimeter road where no vehicles are allowed. This is about a 27 mile track and I will listen to my music on it because there is no chance of any vehicle around. About the only thing there to watch out for is the occasional deer, pig, or bobcat. When I ride out on the road though, I do not listen to music. People are not to bike friendly here, and its just my personal preference and it helps keep my head on a swivel.


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## rollinrob (Dec 8, 2002)

Podcast, right now its all about Fantasy Football.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I listen to ear buds at low volume on my solo rides. I have no problem hearing cars coming up behind me. I'd think hybrids might be hard to hear, but haven't encountered many on my routes.


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## Jagtec1 (Jul 17, 2011)

FTR said:


> So you are saying if I dont listen to music I will suddenly have the ability to hear cars coming and know the difference between whether they are going to pass me by or run into me?
> AND, if I am able to tell that they may be going to hit me I suddenly have an improved ability to get out of their way?
> 
> Doubtful at best.
> ...


Reread my post. Not at all what I said. Why the 'tude?

I will say that I see far more people get hit WHILE wearing headphones, than those hit without. Coincidence? Possibly, but I doubt it.

You are an adult and are free to choose how you ride, and whether or not you use headphones. 

Just sharing my experience working in a trauma center. Be safe.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Jagtec1 said:


> Reread my post. Not at all what I said. Why the 'tude?
> 
> I will say that I see far more people get hit WHILE wearing headphones, than those hit without. Coincidence? Possibly, but I doubt it.
> 
> ...


I also work in a trauma center. If a car is coming up behind you really fast, you're going to get nailed with or without headphones.


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## smeakim (Jan 16, 2008)

When I am doing a leisure ride I ride with one and when I am alone both. It depends on the circumstances. Riding with music looking at the scenery can't beat that. I am not zoning out I just like the up tempo music while I ride. When I race never.


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## stockwiz (May 29, 2012)

Tschai said:


> Here are just a few thoughts on this issue:
> 
> 1. One's hearing while riding can be very deceptive. Anti-headphone people fail to recognize this.
> 2. Riding in a pack without headphones is much more dangerous than riding alone with headphones. Applying this anti-headphone logic, cyclists should not ride in packs. Indeed, they should all ride slower, not ride downhill, not ride in the rain or maybe just not ride at all. It is dangerous.
> ...



Great points and excellent facts. I wear these except they cost less than half the price when I bought them in 2010, they've taken a beating and keep in ticking with the usual good sennheiser sound not muddled in base like lots of other brands like sony do.

Amazon.com: Sennheiser PMX 60 Lightweight Portable Headphones with Neckband: Electronics

I wear the brightest green/yellow jersey and consider myself much more safe than a rider not wearing headphones riding around in a grey or black jersey. The difference in driver reaction was obvious the first day I rode with it on, the thing is bright and will reflect off onto my skin, drinking bottle, etc on cloudy days.


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## Wetworks (Aug 10, 2012)

I'm planning to listen to music once I am more comfortable with my riding skill level. But I will not be using earbuds, just the speaker from my iPhone, maybe a bar mounted speaker. I like being able to hear things around me, not to mention that earbuds are illegal in NY.


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## Juzzy004 (Mar 8, 2012)

I can't speak for drivers in the States, but here in Perth, Australia, most of them are pretty considerate, as long as you use common sense and stay over far enough for them to safely pass.
I love listening to music from my iPhone if I'm out training solo. I usually go for uplifting stuff like trance or progressive and DJ Addison & Johnny Monsoon have some awesome free podcasts. It's amazing the difference music has on your ability to push through the pain barrier, at times.
I wear earplugs (see attached) and play it pretty loud. Like others have mentioned, you need to be aware of your surroundings and obey all the rules, like stopping at traffic signals. We are lucky over here for having a heap of bike paths that allow for fast riding.
If I'm group riding, I never wear them. It's unsafe and disrespectful to your fellow riders, IMO.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Wetworks said:


> I'm planning to listen to music once I am more comfortable with my riding skill level. But I will not be using earbuds, just the speaker from my iPhone, maybe a bar mounted speaker. I like being able to hear things around me, not to mention that earbuds are illegal in NY.


Ok. This is almost worse. I like my music but you may not. Don't make others listen to your music.


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## FindTheRiver (May 26, 2012)

Up until now, I've always been in the "Never done it" camp, but lately I've been considering it. My rides are consistently stretching longer, and I'm confident enough in my road awareness to give it a try. I'll report back as to how it goes.


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## genux (Jun 18, 2012)

I have behind-the-neck headphones that I use mostly to reduce wind noise, but on occasion I listen to music or podcasts, but only during my solo leisure rides.

On group rides, I never wear them since I tend to be in groups that have their fair share of verbal announcements.

When being passed (with or without headphones), I've learned to try and always ride predictably and just keep riding the same pace/line/direction and not swerve.


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## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

My philosophy: if you want to pedal while listening to music, why not go to an air conditioned Spinning class? If you are riding outdoors- be outdoors, with all its sounds, smells, wind, heat/cold, bumpy roads, etc. That's just me though- YMMV


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

Bill2 said:


> My philosophy: if you want to pedal while listening to music, why not go to an air conditioned Spinning class? If you are riding outdoors- be outdoors, with all its sounds, smells, wind, heat/cold, bumpy roads, etc. That's just me though- YMMV


Sorry this makes no sense.
If I want to listen to music I should be indoors in air conditioning?


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## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

FTR said:


> Sorry this makes no sense.
> If I want to listen to music I should be indoors in air conditioning?


Only if you are just pedaling. If you are cycling, please join us outdoors.


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

Bill2 said:


> Only if you are just pedaling. If you are cycling, please join us outdoors.


What about if I want to pedal and eat something, or drink something?
Should I then stop and sit down at a table?

What about if I would like to ride my bike and have a conversation with another rider?

Sorry I am trying to find a way not to come out and say that your post is one of the silliest things I have read.

Oops, too late.


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## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

As stated, YMMV. Try not to take chit-chat on an internet forum so seriously. It's just people expressing their personal feelings, everyone may not feel the same way you do. Life will still go on, either way.


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

Bill2 said:


> As stated, YMMV. Try not to take chit-chat on an internet forum so seriously. It's just people expressing their personal feelings, everyone may not feel the same way you do. Life will still go on, either way.


I am not taking it seriously.
If I was taking it seriously, I would not be laughing my arse off at your post.


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## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

FTR said:


> I am not taking it seriously.
> If I was taking it seriously, I would not be laughing my arse off at your post.


That's the spirit. I'm not bothered at all that I've made you smile or laugh- I'm pleased.


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## jacksdad (Aug 7, 2012)

Sean.B said:


> I always ride with music, though the only real road riding I do is down in Deleware/Maryland on Rt. 1 where there are separate bike lanes. The rest of my riding is on multi-use paved trails, where the only thing that will run me down from behind is someone else on a bike.


Lot of people get hit on that road. Very dangerous regardless of headphone choice. I suspect it's no accident that the incidents aren't publicized well. Too many idiots on vacation not paying attention. Was invited on a group ride this summer and declined because its just too risky. Guy that went ended up in hospital. No ****.


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## Peter_Klim (Oct 7, 2007)

I never did/will.

In-ear (bud) earphones are like ear plugs that, like others have mentioned, cut out ambient sound, even if yiou have the music turned down low or even turned off. If you do wear headphone, wear the open-air type, which are the ones that do not go in your ears.

This is what I own. They clip over your ear, just like in the earlier post, but they are no in-ear, rather open air. They go for $45, but are far superior than most in-ear headphones, especially in the BASS department (not that crappy sloppy boomy bass, but that deep and tight musical bass). They're just as good as many $150 plus full size headphones. In the headphone community, they're known to be one of those exceptional values in headphones (not the best, or even close, but a very good value where anyone but a critical audiophile would be more than verify satisfied with the sound).


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## Peter_Klim (Oct 7, 2007)

NJBiker72 said:


> Ok. This is almost worse. I like my music but you may not. Don't make others listen to your music.


I plan to attach one of these to my handlebars (I actually own this exact one, circa 1984). What music do you really hate? Yanni?


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## Peter_Klim (Oct 7, 2007)

cobra6696 said:


> nope.. i just sing along in my head lol


I've been lifting weights for the last 30 years of my life, but i only sing along in my head when biking the last few miles. And it's always "Eye of the Tiger" or "Getting Stronger'. Luckily no thoughts enter my head of Rock and Appollo frollicking in slo-mo and hugging each other in their sexy shorts!


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## Peter_Klim (Oct 7, 2007)

FTR said:


> So you are saying if I dont listen to music I will suddenly have the ability to hear cars coming and know the difference between whether they are going to pass me by or run into me?
> AND, if I am able to tell that they may be going to hit me I suddenly have an improved ability to get out of their way?
> 
> Doubtful at best.
> ...


Why not both ears?


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## austincrx (Oct 22, 2008)

I used to use earbuds and my ipod on nearly every ride while I was in college, except group rides. Now that I'm not in school and living in a slightly more congested area I haven't worn them in a year. I actually went on a 4 hour ride earlier this summer with them on, but I never turned the Ipod on or stuck the buds in my ears. I guess I like the quiet now. No one is talking to me, I can think about whatever I want, and I can go wherever I want while I'm out riding. It's nice to whistle or hum to a song that's stuck in your head, especially when no one's around. When I did use earbuds, I only had it in my right ear, and I would get scared by quiet cars passing me every now and then. Come to think of it, I get startled now by quiet cars, even when I don't have ear buds in! I even noticed some slight hearing loss in my right ear, even though I rarely had the music up louder than the voice of someone speaking to me. That's probably the main reason I don't use earbuds anymore.


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## josefebus (Aug 18, 2012)

Only when using the cycleops trainer!


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## Squrkey (Mar 24, 2012)

I got hit by a car recently... I wasnt wearing ear buds. 

Now I listen to music when I ride.


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## kjb0419 (Aug 24, 2012)

Depends on the time of day. Where I live there aren't a lot of cars on the road around 11am, so I can crank it up then, otherwise I just put it in one ear or don't listen at all. Not worth it.


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## Erion929 (Jun 10, 2010)

Squrkey said:


> I got hit by a car recently... I wasnt wearing ear buds.
> 
> Now I listen to music when I ride.



LOL....Bravo! :thumbsup: Yeah, I could see that scenario happening....


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## geekjimmy (Mar 26, 2012)

Yes, but only in the right ear.


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## Rekless1 (Aug 23, 2012)

I listen to 'something', not always music tho and not always when riding.

I use buds that don't block out much road noise so no issues hearing other 'stuff'.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

geekjimmy said:


> Yes, but only in the right ear.


Is that the gay ear or the straight ear?


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## bobvanjr (Aug 2, 2010)

I almost always do unless I'm riding with someone else obviously. I used to just use one bud but now use both. It cuts down on the wind noise. I mainly listen to podcasts and keep it low. Also, and it may seem counter intuitive, but I ride mainly at night because I feel much safer. The lack of traffic and the fact that I can see cars lights better than trying to hear them coming seems safer to me. With bright lights and rear blinkies cars give me WAY more room when they pass than during the day.


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## geekjimmy (Mar 26, 2012)

spade2you said:


> Is that the gay ear or the straight ear?


Heh. 

It's the curb ear.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Jagtec1 said:


> I will say that I see far more people get hit WHILE wearing headphones, than those hit without. Coincidence? Possibly, but I doubt it.
> .


how many people have you seen getting hit?


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## Donn12 (Apr 10, 2012)

Sennheiser USA - Sport Earphones Sennheiser/adidas PMX 680 neckband - Sweat and water resistant - Personal Audio 

I use these headphones. they are called buds but they don't go in your ear like normal so you can still hear. It also has a volume/pause button that I hit when approaching an intersection etc.


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## gte105u (Aug 12, 2012)

I wear one earbud in my right ear. I keep the music soft, I don't like loud music while riding, in my car, or other times when I need to hear. Helps keep me from zoning out to be honest. Ipod Nano has a setting where it will put mono audio to both channels, so I get the "full music" from one bud. I don't seem to hear any less than when I ride without them.

Funny the comment on feeling safer night riding, I feel the same way. I ride before work, getting going at 4:45 AM. When it is fully dark, 99% of people have their headlights on. I have a couple lights going forward, a blinker in the back, lots of reflective tape on the bike, and I usually wear reflective ankle bands. With my ability to see cars better, less traffic, and people seem to see me better than during the day.


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## Mufasa (Dec 12, 2011)

I asked this once and it's a very polarizing topic here. I do use a small speaker instead of earbuds. I don't ride with it if I'm in a group. Wifey and I love it.

If I'm riding on a MUT, it actually helps to notify others on the trail that I'm approaching. Despite what some say, I don't play it loud enough to "intrude" on others riding/walking/running/skating experience.


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## SGMDWK (Jul 22, 2012)

People who feel the need to constantly have music, or a bluetooth in their ears are isolating themselves from the world around them. They prefer the familiar to the new and unknown. It isn't just a safety concern; it is a sad commentary on the times we live in.


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## geekjimmy (Mar 26, 2012)

SGMDWK said:


> People who feel the need to constantly have music, or a bluetooth in their ears are isolating themselves from the world around them. They prefer the familiar to the new and unknown. It isn't just a safety concern; it is a sad commentary on the times we live in.


Mostly, I use the music in one ear at low volume to mask the tinnitus that will drive me bat-guano crazy after 3+ hours in solitude.


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## rkdvsm (Jul 15, 2006)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with wearing earphones while riding your bike. I find it ridiculous that some cyclists would say that it's a safety hazard or say it's some sort of reflection of their personality. It's ridiculous to me because these same cyclists probably listen to music while they are driving their cars. And if you think it's different, then think again. They are both minor distractions that in most cases don't actually cause injury. As for it being a reflection of something else, you or any other person don't know that. The cyclist could be listening to a lecture podcast or a self-help tape. Who really cares?!? I would be happy just to see them riding safely. If they are listening to their class lecture then it's their business. In fact, I applaud them. To say that it's a reflection of how we try to distance ourselves from nature is a big assumption and probably wrong.

But going back to safety, I think before we get self-righteous about other cyclists wearing headphones, we should probably examine the plank in our own eye and look closely at how some of us are contributing to the stereotype that cyclists are rude and unsafe (i.e. no lights/reflectors, no bells, zipping by people yelling "On your left!", riding two abreast or more in areas that require single file, salmoning, and the list goes on).

So don't worry about headphones until the other issues are taken care of because as far as I know most of those examples I listed above are requirements by law while earphones are perfectly legal. If you want to wear an earphone, go ahead. If not, then don't.


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## ericusta (Jul 20, 2012)

when a ride solo, i only have one ear on, usually the right.


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## Peter_Klim (Oct 7, 2007)

rkdvsm said:


> There is absolutely nothing wrong with wearing earphones while riding your bike. I find it ridiculous that some cyclists would say that it's a safety hazard or say it's some sort of reflection of their personality. It's ridiculous to me because these same cyclists probably listen to music while they are driving their cars. And if you think it's different, then think again. They are both minor distractions that in most cases don't actually cause injury. As for it being a reflection of something else, you or any other person don't know that. The cyclist could be listening to a lecture podcast or a self-help tape. Who really cares?!? I would be happy just to see them riding safely. If they are listening to their class lecture then it's their business. In fact, I applaud them. To say that it's a reflection of how we try to distance ourselves from nature is a big assumption and probably wrong.
> 
> But going back to safety, I think before we get self-righteous about other cyclists wearing headphones, we should probably examine the plank in our own eye and look closely at how some of us are contributing to the stereotype that cyclists are rude and unsafe (i.e. no lights/reflectors, no bells, zipping by people yelling "On your left!", riding two abreast or more in areas that require single file, salmoning, and the list goes on).
> 
> So don't worry about headphones until the other issues are taken care of because as far as I know most of those examples I listed above are requirements by law while earphones are perfectly legal. If you want to wear an earphone, go ahead. If not, then don't.


Wearing headphones in some state are not at all legal.


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## rkdvsm (Jul 15, 2006)

Peter_Klim said:


> Wearing headphones in some state are not at all legal.


Well, I stand corrected.


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## ssphoenixa (Jul 25, 2010)

Early in the morning Saturday and Sunday even on busy streets there are very few cars. When solo, i do but i force myself to look back every so often. Typically when a drivers sees you are looking back, they switch lanes or keep distance. Not sure why.


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## martinrjensen (Sep 23, 2007)

I'm sorry, you forgot to add that this is YOUR PERSONAL OPINION AND NOT BASED ON ANY FACTS


SGMDWK said:


> People who feel the need to constantly have music, or a bluetooth in their ears are isolating themselves from the world around them. They prefer the familiar to the new and unknown. It isn't just a safety concern; it is a sad commentary on the times we live in.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

CycoBob said:


> I think that a lot of people today have a real problem, in that they can never be quiet; they can never be alone with themselves, without outside stimulation; they can never just think or deal with their environment....they always have to have music, or a video screen or game or computer or phone in front of them- especially very young people these days. It's sad- such people likely don't even know themselves, and will likely never have an original thought- it's like they are brainwashed and controlled and never have and independent thought or idea, or even an original daydream- their entire lives are just dictated by reactions to outside pre-manufactured artificial stimuli.





SGMDWK said:


> who feel the need to constantly have music, or a bluetooth in their ears are isolating themselves from the world around them. They prefer the familiar to the new and unknown. It isn't just a safety concern; it is a sad commentary on the times we live in


My god people!!!! These comments are just insane and full of elitism. Sad! Sad commentary! WTF!!!!! People like different things. Different things make people happy. What is sad is that some people are so judgmental of others simply because those others do things differently. It is such a sad commentary on how elitist people can be.


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## rkdvsm (Jul 15, 2006)

Tschai said:


> My god people!!!! These comments are just insane and full of elitism. Sad! Sad commentary! WTF!!!!! People like different things. Different things make people happy. What is sad is that some people are so judgmental of others simply because those others do things differently. It is such a sad commentary on how elitist people can be.


I had the same exact thought! WTF is all I can say to that because I think you and others made the point for us.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

When I ride by myself, I have ear buds in. I have never been startled by a car.

I never NEVER change my line without checking first.
I ride either afrap, or I am taking the lane.

Tell me, what situation exists where hearing a car approaching from behind will allow me to do something different from what I already do? If I am afrap, and I hear a car coming, am I gonna ditch myself just in case? If I am going to get hit from behind how does hearing the vehicle help with that? And anyway, most of the time, I hear the cars back there even with the music.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

markrhino said:


> I also work in a major trauma centre. Generally cyclists who get hit are either not wearing enough visible clothing or lights and/or are not concentrating (or not riding defensively).
> Wearing earphones makes little difference. If a vehicle is going to plow into you from behind, whether your listening to music or not, its not going to make any difference.
> Be visible, be alert, ride defensively.


I don't work in a hospital, but I always thought generally cyclists get hit by cars because people in cars who hit things in the road are morons.

For example:

If you are driving and there is a shovel laying in the road and you hit it, you're a moron.
If you are driving and there is a huge cow standing in the road and you hit it, see above.
If you are driving and there is a palette of bricks in the road and you hit it, that's stupid.
If you are driving and there is a cyclist in the road and you can't figure out how to get around that person safely, well, what else can I say? Must be the cyclist's fault.


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## Cpk (Aug 1, 2009)

Love music and riding with music seems like it would be fun but I've had enough instances when I had a hard time hearing a second or third car line and or a really quite first. I think the Bell Sweep may play a part in that as wind noise seems more noticeable then my first helmet or I am just that much faster 8^)


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## Squrkey (Mar 24, 2012)

Squrkey said:


> I got hit by a car recently... I wasnt wearing ear buds.
> 
> Now I listen to music when I ride.


 
59 KM's yesterday with music, 30KM commute this morning, didn’t get hit by a car. Statistically I am safer listening to music.


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## D&MsDad (Jul 17, 2007)

Never had any desire to listen to music while riding.

I guess the voices in my head keep me sufficiently entertained.








--------------------------------


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

CycoBob said:


> Suppose a dog or little urchin [child] darts out in front of you and you only have a nano-second to react and swerve? No time to check....you either swerve and get hit, or run over the dog/child and crash.


You hit the dog or urchin. Even if you don't hear something behind you, does not mean there isn't something behind you. There can be electric cars, other Freds, or just plain old quiet japanese cars you haven't noticed. I never never EVER assume its clear back without looking first.



> Another scenario: On a route that I ride sometimes, I have to cross a two-lane highway near a curve. If people are doing the speed limit, I might have time to see them coming. For anyone speeding (as most do) merely looking isn't going to tell me if it's safe to cross...I really need to listen to hear if anything's coming around that curve, 'cause by the time I can see it, if he's going fast, it's too late.


You take the speaker out of your ear. Mine aren't actually glued in.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

CycoBob said:


> No one is being "judgmental". People are just explaining their own reasoning for doing the things they do or don't do- and what their take on the subject is.
> 
> When someone tries to start LEGISLATING what we should do, and what level of risk should be acceptable or not, THEN I'd have a problem.....


I hear that. Some real touchy posts in here. Ha.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

CycoBob said:


> No one is being "judgmental". People are just explaining their own reasoning for doing the things they do or don't do- and what their take on the subject is.
> 
> When someone tries to start LEGISLATING what we should do, and what level of risk should be acceptable or not, THEN I'd have a problem.....


Re-read your prior post. It was pretty damn strong on the judgmental side of things. I don't even understand why you would bring up such things in a headphone thread.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

foto said:


> You hit the dog or urchin. Even if you don't hear something behind you, does not mean there isn't something behind you. There can be electric cars, other Freds, or just plain old quiet japanese cars you haven't noticed. I never never EVER assume its clear back without looking first.
> 
> 
> 
> You take the speaker out of your ear. Mine aren't actually glued in.


Thanks foto. Could not have been said better. And just to clarify things, I have not seen a little urchin jump out in front of me for about 5 years.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

CycoBob said:


> Suppose a dog or little urchin [child] darts out in front of you and you only have a nano-second to react and swerve? No time to check....you either swerve and get hit, or run over the dog/child and crash. If you're not wearing headphones, you'd likely know if there's a car nearby, and could make an informed choice as to whether to swerve or hit the dog/child/obstacle instead.
> 
> Another scenario: On a route that I ride sometimes, I have to cross a two-lane highway near a curve. If people are doing the speed limit, I might have time to see them coming. For anyone speeding (as most do) merely looking isn't going to tell me if it's safe to cross...I really need to listen to hear if anything's coming around that curve, 'cause by the time I can see it, if he's going fast, it's too late.


Sometimes you can avoid a crash. Sometimes you can't. Headphones at low volume will not change this.


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## Squrkey (Mar 24, 2012)

Theoretically, headphones give you better balance.


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## YamaDan (Aug 28, 2012)

It depends on the ride. I do listen when it's on a path or long MTB, but, I have one plug undone so I can hear "rider back!" On the road, I don't because I'm listening for cars, it's too much of a focus drain.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

CycoBob said:


> ...No time to check....you either swerve and get hit, or run over the dog/child and crash. If you're not wearing headphones, you'd likely know if there's a car nearby, and could make an informed choice as to whether to swerve or hit the dog/child/obstacle instead...


In my experience, hearing can be helpful, but it's not reliable. Depending the the road surface, type of vehicle, wind noise in the ears at speed, and noise from other traffic, you may not hear an approaching vehicle at all, and otherwise may not be able to judge it's distance, how far out in the lane it is, how fast it's approaching, etc..

I use an eyeglasses mounted mirror to monitor and keep track of traffic behind me at all times. As long as I use it, it gives me reliable unambiguous information.


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## ExChefinMA (May 9, 2012)

A lot can be avoided by looking over your shoulder every now and then as well. Instead of relying on a single set of senses use as many as you can. When I ride with music, I keep one ear “open” to the noises as well as glance over my shoulder every so often. Funny, but when I drive my car, I have the music going, mirrors to either side and yet I STILL look over my shoulder.

As far as the dog/urchin suddenly jumping into your path, I go back to something I said earlier in this thread, situational awareness. If you haven’t been paying attention to your surroundings and anticipated that the child/dog playing in the yard 100’ in front of you might decide to run into the street, then you aren’t paying enough attention. I don’t ride with blinders on, I continuously scan, pay attention to what is happening in front of me, beside me and behind me, the same as you do when driving a car.

As many others have said, not sure it really matters if you hear the car that is going to hit you or not. if you’re going to get hit it doesn’t matter if you have headphones on, are deaf, or just plain ole lollygagging. Listening to music/podcasts/news/insert-audio-type-here does not mean “I’m going to close my eyes now and drift to the music like I might relaxing at home in my recliner with my feet up” you’re still on a bike and have to pay attention to your surroundings. 

This isn’t rocket surgery, it’s cycling. Be proactive in your approach to it and you’ll have a long life of cycling ahead of you. Be situationally aware and anticipate.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

Statistically, you're safer siting on the couch eating and watching television, than out riding on the road. Or maybe not...


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## bubba117 (Aug 20, 2012)

If you have a phone or ipod mount, just use the speakers on the device. I use my iphone and its loud enough i can hear it but i hear traffic before its close to me. and as always keep your eyes open


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

CycoBob said:


> I think it does matter if *I* hear the car that is going to hit *me*. It matters, because at least if *I* know it's coming, *I* can choose to go into the ditch instead; move a foot over; ride over the pot-holes/broken glass/gravel on the side, etc.
> 
> Yes, we all want to be aware of our surroundings when we ride.....but let's face it, we also want to enjoy the ride; and it is easy for *my* minds to wander. We don't want to turn a leisurely ride on a country road into a tense-every-minute F14-pilot over NYC thing- but music just further encourages *my* minds to wander, while also handicapping one of *my* senses.
> 
> But then too- it does depend on one's environment. If you ride mainly on shoulders...or in the city, where constant cars are assumed, it's quite different than narrow, shoulderless country roads with blind curves and hillcrests, and where drivers are not used to seeing cyclists.......


fify

question:

How do you know the car you hear approaching is about to hit you?


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## ExChefinMA (May 9, 2012)

Cycobob, 

You have missed the entire point of my post, however foto got it. *_YOU_* need to choose what is right for *_YOU_* not sit in judgment of anyone else’s choice. 

When I ride alone, I choose to trust my senses and situational awareness to keep me safe and whole just like I do in my car. When I ride with friends, I enjoy good conversations and again my senses and situational awareness. 

Your analogy to the F14 pilot is a good one; think about all of the things that they have to do just to fly that airplane. Watch dozens if not a higher number of gauges, not to mention keep their eyes on the horizon scanning for “traffic” or threats, listen and communicate on a radio. Wow, wonder how they can do that, they must be smarter than us cyclists. Or not.

If you are ever in the greater Boston area, look me up, let’s go for a ride.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

CycoBob said:


> Thank you. *I was always sorry that I had never visited Boston back when I lived in that part of the country.*....but I have no intentions of ever setting foot in that part of the country again....but I'd be honored to take a ride with you if ever I did. (You wouldn't listen to music, would ya? :wink:  )


You are only saying that because you haven't been there. Trust me.


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## ExChefinMA (May 9, 2012)

CycoBob said:


> Just knowing that a car is coming, puts me on-guard and makes me aware of any options I may have; and also alerts me to the fact that I should stay as far right as possible. Like the other day- a big old log truck came from behind. I heard it coming- it was near the crest of a hill....so instead of riding a few feet from the edge of the road/ditch, I rode right on the edge. Good thing....the bum hardly gave me any room.
> 
> Also, had i not known he was there, even a little wandering would have resulted in me getting clipped.
> 
> ...


 Where’d ya move to? Heck, the New Englanders welcomed me when I moved here. I’m not a native, hell don’t even speak New Englander. And no, I would be too busy enjoying the conversation to even consider listening to music!


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## VanillaEps (Aug 26, 2012)

Pandora on channel shuffle


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

I crank the music as loud as I can stand so I don't hear the screeching of the brakes before the car hits me that I could have avoided if I didn't have my ears plugged.

I not a fanatic, but I do want to try my best to stay alive for as long as I can. So I don't put anything in my ears; even if the sound is on very low, it still will take off another second at least off your response time that could have saved your life. Then when you have on too low the outside ruckus makes it so the music is unenjoyable anyway. But I have very sensitive ears...I can't stand the sound quality of ear buds, even if in a quiet room, I hate them for listening to music. I want to listen to the fullness of the sound and feel the sound vibrations, so I crank up my JBL L7's if I want to listen to music.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

Road Rights- Listen Up

On bicycling, the sense of hearing and headphones

Read. Learn. Play music.


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## Wildewinds (Mar 12, 2012)

I listen to music (when I ride solo) and I use a rear-view mirror on my helmet.

I think I'm safer than the guy not listening to music but doesn't have a rear-view mirror.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Tschai said:


> Road Rights- Listen Up
> 
> On bicycling, the sense of hearing and headphones
> 
> Read. Learn. Play music.


You can find a lot BS on the internet to prop up false pretenses. And in some states it's illegal. Every country know this to be true to, in Japan they issue tickets, in America...well even though it's illegal you won't get a ticket, in fact you can be riding with earphones in, run a traffic light, and make a illegal turn and the cops won't write you up. Do that in car though and see what happens.


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## BikeforAfrica (Aug 29, 2012)

*No*

Nope I just sing.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Jagtec1 said:


> I work in an ER, and see plenty of cyclists/runners/walkers get clobbered by vehicles because they could not hear them coming. Does this info help?


How many people do you see in the ER who were in a car accident with the stereo on too? If you can't handel listening to music while riding a bike because of distraction, then you shouldn't have it on in your car either.


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## rkdvsm (Jul 15, 2006)

spookyload said:


> How many people do you see in the ER who were in a car accident with the stereo on too? If you can't handel listening to music while riding a bike because of distraction, then you shouldn't have it on in your car either.


This. People don't understand that a cyclist listening to music is analogous to a driver listening to music inside his or her car. There's no difference.

The reason that these people got into an accident is probably because they weren't paying attention. Sure it might have been difficult to hear the car horn, but that's no different from a driver who's radio is blasting inside and didn't hear a car horn as well.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

BikeforAfrica said:


> Nope I just sing.


I moo at cows, oink at pigs, click at squirrels, tweet at birds, yell stop at dogs, and sing...problem when I sing is I get cats wanting to mate with me!


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## Montyaloofah (Mar 14, 2012)

I used to as a child 25 years ago in NYC. I tried it again earlier this summer and was hyper sensitive to looking for cars riding up on me. I won't do it again. I like to hear my surroundings... safer that way. and it's therapeutic


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## Erion929 (Jun 10, 2010)

CycoBob said:


> Just yesterday on my ride, I climbed a big hill on a lightly-trafficked but fast 2-lane road with no shoulder/not even a fog line. As I crested the hill, I hear this car coming fast from behind (Couldn't see it in my mirror because I was already over the top of the hill)- I had to make a left hand turn about 100' from the crest of the hill. As it was, I had enough time to do so. Thing is, if I hadn't heard that car coming, and he would have been just a fraction of a second closer, I would have been in a situation where he would not have seen me, and would have nailed me if I were in the middle of my lane after he crested the hill at 60MPH....or if he would have seen me, and would have gone to pass me, I would have turned right in front of him while making my left. (Even checking my mirror- without having heard him approaching, there would not have been time). That could have been a life or death situation...the only way I knew that car was coming, was because I *heard* it!



This could have been wayyy less dramatic. Since you KNEW you were going to be making a left "100 feet" after the crest of the hill, all you had to do was take a look behind you as you got to the top to see if any cars were approaching from behind. Simple :idea:. I do that ALL THE TIME when I want to get in a left-turn lane from the right-hand shoulder.

And I do it with music, too .

In fact, if you just simply assume that cars are behind you all the time, there really is no excuse for being surprised.

**


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

froze said:


> You can find a lot BS on the internet to prop up false pretenses. And in some states it's illegal. Every country know this to be true to, in Japan they issue tickets, in America...well even though it's illegal you won't get a ticket, i*n fact you can be riding with earphones in, run a traffic light, and make a illegal turn and the cops won't write you up. Do that in car though and see what happens.*


You obviously have never been to nyc.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

CycoBob said:


> *"I do that ALL THE TIME when I want to get in a left-turn lane from the right-hand shoulder."*
> 
> The difference being: With a shoulder, you have all the time you need. In my situation, with no shoulder- just an 8' lane and a ditch on the right.....and a car approaching at 60MPH from behind over the crest of steep hill...it's a totally different ballpark. Admittedly, in your situation, and always assuming that cars are there (as i do), I could see riding with headphones.


How long have you been riding? Clearly you cannot handle any distractions on your ride. But since you can't, no one can?

In my case, I would avoid a road like that _at all costs_. And it is as sketchy as you describe, and there were absolutley no alternative routes, I would probably not listen to music.

*However*, if you are riding on a busy two lane 60 mph road with no shoulder and blind corners and hills, you are gonna get nailed one of these days. No matter *what precautions you take*. Be safe out there, and use your head.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

CycoBob said:


> Hehe....I know! *IMO every big city today is exactly the same- ya seen one...ya seen 'em all.* But I always wanted to "Pahk the cah"


Yeah, just like every backwards rural burg. Seen one, seen em all.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

froze said:


> You can find a lot BS on the internet to prop up false pretenses. And in some states it's illegal. Every country know this to be true to, in Japan they issue tickets, in America...well even though it's illegal you won't get a ticket, in fact you can be riding with earphones in, run a traffic light, and make a illegal turn and the cops won't write you up. Do that in car though and see what happens.


Illegal in only a handful of states. Also, just because it is illegal, it does not mean that it is unsafe. There are all sorts of laws that are stupid and/or unnecessary. For example, it is illegal in some states to be a scalper of tickets.

As to the BS you mention, instead of just proclaiming that the links were BS, give us some specific arguments.


----------



## Squrkey (Mar 24, 2012)

Rode safely, 65 km with headphones today. Stats are in favor of headphones.


----------



## rkdvsm (Jul 15, 2006)

foto said:


> How long have you been riding? Clearly you cannot handle any distractions on your ride. But since you can't, no one can?
> 
> In my case, I would avoid a road like that _at all costs_. And it is as sketchy as you describe, and there were absolutley no alternative routes, I would probably not listen to music.
> 
> *However*, if you are riding on a busy two lane 60 mph road with no shoulder and blind corners and hills, you are gonna get nailed one of these days. No matter *what precautions you take*. Be safe out there, and use your head.


This.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

foto said:


> How long have you been riding?


I think we'd all like an answer to this. I get the impression he has ridden tens of miles and wants to dish out advice. 



foto said:


> Clearly you cannot handle any distractions on your ride. But since you can't, no one can?
> 
> In my case, I would avoid a road like that _at all costs_. And it is as sketchy as you describe, and there were absolutley no alternative routes, I would probably not listen to music.
> 
> *However*, if you are riding on a busy two lane 60 mph road with no shoulder and blind corners and hills, you are gonna get nailed one of these days. No matter *what precautions you take*. Be safe out there, and use your head.


This by a lot.


----------



## Chris-X (Aug 4, 2011)

seemana said:


> Never.


Me neither. I can't multitask and am honest about it. I also enjoy the full sensations of the ride and don't need "music" when I want to hear the wind, cars, birds, friends talking, approaching riders, new friends made on the ride, new friends made when stopping at 7/11. 

I also tend to doubt people who I believe overestimate their abilities or underestimate dangers of cycling. To each his own....


----------



## Chris-X (Aug 4, 2011)

Squrkey said:


> Rode safely, 65 km with headphones today. Stats are in favor of headphones.


Good grief!


----------



## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

CycoBob said:


> Uh-uh. A car doing 60MPH is moving at about 100' per second. It's about 100' from the crest of the hill to where I make the left. That means, there would have been ONE second for me to check mirror, and if done just at the most opportune time, just when the car became visible, There would have been one second to decide what to do and do it (Do I stay in my lane and hope he goes over the double yellow and passes...or do I move as far to the right edge as....SPLAT!!!!!) -And one second for the car to see me; react; and for the car to respond. (Even if the driver isn't on the cell-phone, ya can't stop at 60MPH in one second)- The driver would have had to see me after cresting the hill; react; decide what to do; and then the car would have had to do it within the physical limitations of physics. SPLATTT!
> 
> That really drives home the fact that I will never ride with headphones.


60 mph is 87.5 feet per second btw.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

Chris-X said:


> I also tend to doubt people who I believe overestimate their abilities or underestimate dangers of cycling. To each his own....


 I tend to doubt people that overestimate the music free need for hearing while riding. Hearing can be very deceptive.


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## Squrkey (Mar 24, 2012)

I did a little test on my commute this morning. I compared riding with the following configurations:

Headphones out
Headphones in, music off
Headphones in, music on

Riding with the headphones out: I dont feel, at 12-20 MPH into a headwind, that it makes any difference because the sound of air rushing past my ears masked much of the noise from motor vehicles, birds chirping and squirrells mateing, etc. I really could'nt hear anything except when I turned my head to the side to observe traffic.

Headphones in, music off: This configuration actually cut down on the wind noise and I was actually able to hear the approaching, fringe wearing, pirate with ape hangers crawl by me at 200 decibles (35 MPH), otherwise I might have wiped him out.

Headphones in, music on: Same as with the music off, but with music. I could still hear motorist approaching. To me this was less distracting then without the music playing.


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## jswilson64 (May 20, 2008)

I only listen to the songs that are stuck in my head.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

CycoBob said:


> 1300 miles since April of this year. In the past, as a child/teen: Tens of thousands of miles!
> 
> I may not be the most accomplished cyclist- but I have ridden in such diverse environments as NYC; small towns and now, out in the sticks. I'm no stranger to the road- I've driven professionally; I've traveled out in the wilderness around the Sierra-Nevada mountains by dirtbike(motorcycle); Had my own boat when I was 18 - And through all the varied experiences and environments, I've always stayed safe and avoided accident and injury.
> 
> ...


Sounds like your home planet is Krypton. I would never imagine someone living comfortably without health insurance, even if they were very wealthy. As to the ER, you better knock on some wood really quickly.


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## Squrkey (Mar 24, 2012)

CycoBob said:


> You're all free to live with whatever level of risk you're willing to accept/think is safe for your conditions.....but I know what works for me, and I can live comfortably without health insurance; and I've never been to an ER. All I know is I must be doing something right.


Well theres your problem, your not living, your simply surviving. :smilewinkgrin:Time to kick the risk elves in the crotch, or change your screen name, I dont think cyco (psycho) acuratly reflects your conservative risk attitude. :14:


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## needlotsofhelp (Aug 30, 2012)

No I like to listen to the road.


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## needlotsofhelp (Aug 30, 2012)

no i like to listen to the road


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## rkdvsm (Jul 15, 2006)

spookyload said:


> 60 mph is 87.5 feet per second btw.


I wanted to correct him on that as well, but thought it might be pointless.

Anyway, going 60mph from the crest of a hill to the turn is an "interesting" statement. First, I don't know if I will ever ride on a road where cars go 60mph, and depending on how steep that hill is, the car is probably going too fast as well. If a cyclist gets hit by a car going that fast then I'm pretty sure not listening would make much difference. Well, I shoudn't say that, but there are probably a lot of other things driver and cyclist could both do to prevent an accident rather than argue about wearing headphones.


----------



## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

CycoBob said:


> 1300 miles since April of this year. In the past, as a child/teen: Tens of thousands of miles!
> 
> I may not be the most accomplished cyclist- but I have ridden in such diverse environments as NYC; small towns and now, out in the sticks. I'm no stranger to the road- I've driven professionally; I've traveled out in the wilderness around the Sierra-Nevada mountains by dirtbike(motorcycle); Had my own boat when I was 18 - And through all the varied experiences and environments, I've always stayed safe and avoided accident and injury.
> 
> ...


Hahahahaha!!! Interesting perspective on willingness to assume risk. That has to be the dopiest one of them all. No wonder you are so hyper sensitive to every possible danger ever....

"What if my friend buzzes me with his seaplane and miss judges his altitude and I don't hear it coming from behind? I don't have insurance, you know."


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## Squrkey (Mar 24, 2012)

needlotsofhelp said:


> No I like to listen to the road.


 
nedslotsofhelps buddies: Hey, lets go grab some beers tonight, theres this great band playing and happy hour is loaded with hotties.

needslotsofhelp: Im going to have to pass, I'm going to go out to the highway, lay down comanche style, put my ear to the pavement and ejoy the sensation of the road. Nothing like it, I'll catch up with you guys tommorro.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

CycoBob said:


> 1300 miles since April of this year. In the past, as a child/teen: Tens of thousands of miles!
> 
> I may not be the most accomplished cyclist- but I have ridden in such diverse environments as NYC; small towns and now, out in the sticks. I'm no stranger to the road- I've driven professionally; I've traveled out in the wilderness around the Sierra-Nevada mountains by dirtbike(motorcycle); Had my own boat when I was 18 - And through all the varied experiences and environments, I've always stayed safe and avoided accident and injury.
> 
> ...


So, lemme get this straight. You willingly ride on 60mph roads with blind corners and no shoulders without health insurance, but draw the line at wearing headphones? 

So your friend flew his sea-plane under bridges, where did the hardware come from?


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

spade2you said:


> So your friend flew his sea-plane under bridges, where did the hardware come from?


And, what brand of headphones was he using?


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## arai_speed (Aug 19, 2003)

Tschai said:


> And, what brand of headphones was he using?


SkullCandy - no doubt!


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## Makaveli6103 (Aug 30, 2012)

I do but I make sure I can hear everything around me.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

CycoBob said:


> Yep. That is PRECISELY WHY I need to be very aware when I ride. As I've described in several scenarios above, there are situations in which I would not be able to see a car approaching, but being able to hear it allows me an extra margin of safety so that I could move out of the way or at least avoid turning into a car's path, which may appear before I would have time to see it/when it is too late to do anything about it. I only need to ride that road for about three quarters of a mile.


I don't think you realize how little cred you have with us at this point. At 100fps, you're not going to get significant reaction time unless you're the bionic man. Even then, explain to us where you're going to go when this happens. Because you're inexperienced, you want to tell us that there are places to go, but you really can't go anywhere when a car makes you a hood ornament unless you know how to levitate. 



CycoBob said:


> Probably the same hospital that sewed his stomach up after he was shot. [Don't worry, I'd never get in a plane with him!]


Ah, so flying sea-planes gets ya shot. Got it. I told my wife that because I ate a potato last Wednesday is the reason I got a paper cut yesterday. She told me I was crazy.


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## Erion929 (Jun 10, 2010)

CycoBob said:


> Let me try and explain this so even you can understand: Normally, on this road, I can see cars coming from c.1/2 mile away in my mirror. Except after I've crested that hill- BUT, if I don't obstruct my hearing, I can HEAR them coming from maybe 800' away, after I've crested the hill- so I have a good 8-10 seconds to react. If I were not able to hear them in that scenario, THEN, with there being only 100' or so between the crest of the hill and where I turn, I would have NO time to react, if I had to rely solely on seeing them in my mirror/turning my head.



Sounds like you just cut things too close anyway, with all these 100' rules.. Why not, *as you crest the hill at 5 mph*, take a glance in back and front? If there are no cars, just cross the road there, to the other side.. And if a car is coming, just wait until it's clear.*at the top of the hill*. Why would you go another 100' downhill, in a blind spot, to cross? 

**


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## ExChefinMA (May 9, 2012)

CycoBob said:


> Because once you crest the hill in this location, you can not see what is coming from behind- thus my need to hear it. When I get to the c.100' point where I turn, being only 100' from the blind crest of the hill, if a car is coming up that hill at 60MPH, by the time the car would become visible, he'd only be 100' feet away from me. At that point, if he decided to go into the oncoming lane and pass me, I'd turn into him (remember, being only 100' away at 60MPH, there is scarcely more than a second for both the car and myself to react, and to execute our respective moves)- or, if I stayed in my lane and he didn't/couldn't go into the oncoming lane to pass me....BLAMMO! At that speed and in that short of a distance, there isn't time for either of us to do anything- thus my need to have advanced audible warning of an approaching car at that location.
> 
> It sounds more complicated than it is....maybe if I make a diagram.....


Bob,

Its starting to sound like you need to install a radar dish and monitor.  Thought the drivers/roads around here could be nerve wracking.

And yes I am pulling your leg about the radar.

ExChef


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

CycoBob said:


> It sounds more complicated than it is....maybe if I make a diagram.....


No need for a diagram. We all get it. You rely on your hearing way too much. Hearing is largely unreliable. 

Moreover, even if we accept everything you said about this hill as true and that hearing is needed, all one would need to do is take the headphone out of their ear before crossing.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

CycoBob said:


> No, but one's wife hiring someone to kill you for the insurance money does. Why would you assume that the two things are connected?
> 
> .....and I have no credibility....LOL


I guess I can relate. I just got hit in the shins with a candy cane from a midget riding a corgi. Shouldn't have had that potato last week.


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## shermes (Jul 26, 2008)

CycoBob said:


> In a situation where sight is of no use, I'd think it better to rely on hearing, and have at least some input (Even quiet cars gunning it to go up hill + breaking through the wind, make noise)
> than to have no input at all.
> 
> True, I could just pop the IEMs out of my ears as I'm going up the hill....but really, how many times do you actually do that, even though you know you should?
> ...


The cars snook up on you.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

shermes said:


> The cars snook up on you.


I can verify this. I had a car snook up on me while I was hunting snipe.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

shermes said:


> The cars snook up on you.


Snookie was involved? Ugg, hopefully it's something a 2 gram slam of Zithromax and a hot shower can fix. :blush2:


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

CycoBob said:


> In a situation where sight is of no use, I'd think it better to rely on hearing, and have at least some input (Even quiet cars gunning it to go up hill + breaking through the wind, make noise)
> than to have no input at all.
> 
> True, I could just pop the IEMs out of my ears as I'm going up the hill....but really, how many times do you actually do that, even though you know you should?
> ...


When sight is of no use, it is time to retire the bike.


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## Erion929 (Jun 10, 2010)

Tschai said:


> I can verify this. I had a car snook up on me while I was hunting snipe.



If you were hunting snipe and got snook up on, you had to be sneezing, snoring, or snockered....dude, you got snookered! :blush2:

**


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

CycoBob said:


> It sounds more complicated than it is....maybe if I make a diagram.....


I would appreciate the diagram...


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

foto said:


> I would appreciate the diagram...


I have a feeling we'll be getting something in purple crayon.


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## sbarsby (Sep 1, 2012)

Are you crazy? Hearing approaching vehicles is about half the safety for us out there.


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## Sisophous (Jun 7, 2010)

I often bring my IRiver with me but only listen to it when I have stopped and at rest. Being able to hear the noise from an approaching car's tires is important to me when entering intersections. Listening to music would make it less safe for me. Even on very windy days it is less safe because I can't hear approaching cars as easily.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Tschai said:


> When sight is of no use, it is time to retire the bike.


Sight is for n00bs. I rely on my sense of smell and taste on my bike rides.


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## Edhunt (Sep 1, 2012)

When on my daily commute in D.C., i listen to music or books or whatever on ear buds. I don't have to hear a car approaching at an intersection because I KNOW that at every intersection there are 2 buses looking to turn into the bike lane to pick up passengers,12 taxi cabs waiting until I am 2.3 feet from their back bumper to pull out of their parking space into the bike lane, and one idiot making an illegal UTurn across 4 lanes of traffic to end with his front bumper in my bike lane before he realizes he needs to stop and back up to complete it. 

For me it has nothing to do with hearing. It has everything to do with observing what is going on in front of me and braking or maneuvering (after turning my head and LOOKING for oncoming traffic) around obstacles that find their way in front of me.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

Allow me to not conjecture, but offer some actual science...

The use and risk of portable electronic devices while cycling among different age groups. Journal of Safety Research. 43(1):1-8, 2012 Feb.

" RESULTS: After statistical correction for influences on crash risk of urbanization level, weekly time spent cycling, and cycling in more demanding traffic situations, the odds of being involved in a bicycle crash were estimated to be higher for teen cyclists and young adult cyclists who used electronic devices on every trip compared to same age groups cyclists who never used these devices. For middle-aged and older adult cyclists, the use of portable electronic devices was not a significant predictor of bicycle crashes, but frequency of cycling in demanding traffic situations was."


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## Erion929 (Jun 10, 2010)

DrSmile said:


> Allow me to not conjecture, but offer some actual science...
> 
> The use and risk of portable electronic devices while cycling among different age groups. Journal of Safety Research. 43(1):1-8, 2012 Feb.
> 
> " RESULTS: After statistical correction for influences on crash risk of urbanization level, weekly time spent cycling, and cycling in more demanding traffic situations, the odds of being involved in a bicycle crash were estimated to be higher for teen cyclists and young adult cyclists who used electronic devices on every trip compared to same age groups cyclists who never used these devices.* For middle-aged and older adult cyclists, the use of portable electronic devices was not a significant predictor of bicycle crashes,* but frequency of cycling in demanding traffic situations was."



Just one more reason it's good not to be teen.....happy I'm older, lol :thumbsup:

**


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

DrSmile said:


> Allow me to not conjecture, but offer some actual science...
> 
> The use and risk of portable electronic devices while cycling among different age groups. Journal of Safety Research. 43(1):1-8, 2012 Feb.
> 
> " RESULTS: After statistical correction for influences on crash risk of urbanization level, weekly time spent cycling, and cycling in more demanding traffic situations, the odds of being involved in a bicycle crash were estimated to be higher for teen cyclists and young adult cyclists who used electronic devices on every trip compared to same age groups cyclists who never used these devices. For middle-aged and older adult cyclists, the use of portable electronic devices was not a significant predictor of bicycle crashes, but frequency of cycling in demanding traffic situations was."


interesting! Is there a positive or negative correlation between crashing and riding in demanding traffic?


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## Icetech (Aug 13, 2012)

damn this thread.. it went through my head today... i listen to music when i ride, but i only ride on trails not streets.. but the trail does cross roads. I almost got smoked by a truck doing about 70.. missed me by a foot. The crossing has very loos gravel so i was concentraing more on not falling on my face than about my surrondings, heard the guys horn at the last second.. without my headphones i would have heard him coming.. BUT i will still wear them.. can't ride without music.


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## vettracer (Jan 12, 2011)

Funny one today. 

I was ridding up a long climb in the middle of my ride and came up on another rider. As I approached I heard a metallic clicking noise and sure enough as I got close, I saw that the other rider was in his largest cog and the rear derailleur was ridding on the spokes.

I came even with the other rider and said "Hey", and no response, he just kept looking straight ahead. That is when I noticed the ear buds jammed in his ears. Shook my head and kept going, I guess he will discover the problem when he wraps the derailleur around the chain stay.


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## bwbishop (Sep 17, 2011)

spade2you said:


> Sight is for n00bs. I rely on my sense of smell and taste on my bike rides.


Yeah, I always stop once I taste bumper


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Usannagow said:


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If we order right now do we get two for the price of one?


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## Squrkey (Mar 24, 2012)

sbarsby said:


> Are you crazy? Hearing approaching vehicles is about half the safety for us out there.


Dude is this you?

A Californian Blind Man Uses Echolocation To Ride A Bike | Inhabitat - Sustainable Design Innovation, Eco Architecture, Green Building

While sight is something we take for granted while riding our bikes, Daniel Kish from California rides his bike based completely on sound. Kish, who is blind, goes riding around town using a method called echolocation — which effectively works as a sonar. As Kish rides his bike around he makes a clicking sounds, and the clicks then bounce back, allowing Kish to create a mental image of his surroundings. Kish’s system allows him to used his ears as his eyes, similar to bats.

Read more: A Californian Blind Man Uses Echolocation To Ride A Bike | Inhabitat - Sustainable Design Innovation, Eco Architecture, Green Building


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## trey99ek (Sep 3, 2012)

I do on occasion however I only wear my right earbud and I keep it fairly low volume.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Jagtec1 said:


> I work in an ER, and see plenty of cyclists/runners/walkers get clobbered by vehicles because they could not hear them coming. Does this info help?


Not really. We'd have to why they were hit, what mistake they or the driver made, if hearing better would actually have helped or if the use of ear buds actually makes a meaningful difference in ability to hear in a way that is actually protective. Oh, and we'd also have to compare to those that get hit w/o earbuds, how many w/ ear buds don't get hit too.

I respect your work in the ER, but anecdotal stories are not very helpful. To demonstrate my bias, I've ridden with earbuds for probably 15 or more years, maybe 20 (used to mount a cassette walkman on my handlebars in the 90s!),and have never ever had a close call caused by the sounds in my ears, nor have ever felt unsafe because of them. But to be fair, I'm hyper vigilant regardless of whether I'm wearing them or not. 

I believe the accidents you see are caused by lack of foresight, safe riding habits, inexperience and yes, cluelessness, not the ear buds.



> The difference being: With a shoulder, you have all the time you need. In my situation, with no shoulder- just an 8' lane and a ditch on the right.....and a car approaching at 60MPH from behind over the crest of steep hill...it's a totally different ballpark. Admittedly, in your situation, and always assuming that cars are there (as i do), I could see riding with headphones.


Yea, I would never make a left hand turn in that situation without making sure it was safe by looking - even if that meant stopping on the far right and looking back and then going across the road. Hearing - it would never cross my mind that hearing a vehicle ... or not hearing one .... would be a factor. Some cars are awfully quiet going 60, and I really couldn't and wouldn't rely on my perception of speed of an approaching car based on what I could hear.

I often get the feeling that those that choose not to use ear buds while riding just so strongly assume that it "has to be dangerous" that they either disparage or get angry with those of us who know that it can be done perfectly safely with the same safety habits we use when riding without them.

I think my opinion is supported by the study quoted above that shows that for middle aged and above (which I interpret to me a surrogate statistic for experience), riding with headphones doesn't relate to increased accidents.

Riding with headphones is not the same as being clueless. Please don't assume it does. Cluelessness causes most cycling accidents, even when the driver is "at fault".


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Yup, you don't need ears to hear for added safety.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

What I listened to on my ride the evening.


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## CleavesF (Dec 31, 2007)

Earbuds while riding is as stupid as earbuds while driving.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

CleavesF said:


> Earbuds while riding is as stupid as earbuds while driving.


You're right ! Neither is stupid. Clueless riders and drivers are stupid!


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

CycoBob said:


> On yesterday's ride, I was on an unlined country road- with some small curves and very small hills.... I hear this car coming from behind. I look in my mirror and can't see it due to the curvature of the road. I keep hearing it....a good 6 or 7 seconds later, I glance my mirror, and there it is and it passes me.
> 
> Made me realize, by being able to hear it, I had a good 7 seconds warning that it was coming. Had I not been able to hear it, I would likely have been oblivious, unless I had checked my mirror JUST at the exact right time when it finally became visible.
> 
> ...


Now you done it, you've used common sense when it comes to riding your bike by listening to your surroundings. Now prepare yourself for the beat down. You and I know hearing is essential, but people want what people want and if they believe that having buds in their ears and music going is safe they will try to come up with every kind of "proof" to show their right. Kind of like the believers of Big Foot, no evidence exist their real but they want to believe it so bad that they'll believe anything no matter how bad the evidence is. You can find anything to support any nonsense you can come up with on the internet these days.


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## jstorm940 (Oct 24, 2010)

There is little question that listening to music while cycling or driving is more dangerous than
not -- for different reasons perhaps -- but still more dangerous. So are many things in life such
as diet choices, smoking etc. Choosing low tar cigarettes, and keeping the volume lower while
cycling are somewhat similar responses. Personally I like to listen to music while cycling, it makes
it easier to get up the hills, at least for me. I also know that at times I can't hear the cars behind me
as quickly as I could without the music. Of course, that might keep my blood pressure down too


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## octobahn (May 30, 2012)

I use to but it's a bit distracting so i've since stopped. I've found I enjoy the ride more now than when I had something blasting my ear drums away.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

jstorm940 said:


> There is little question that listening to music while cycling or driving is more dangerous than
> not -- for different reasons perhaps -- but still more dangerous. So are many things in life such
> as diet choices, smoking etc. Choosing low tar cigarettes, and keeping the volume lower while
> cycling are somewhat similar responses. Personally I like to listen to music while cycling, it makes
> ...


So low tar cigs are safe? I don't recall the surgeon general removing the warnings on those...

So I assume you smoke? regardless if you do or don't, your assumption that low tar cigs are safe is as flawed as your assumption riding with ear buds and music on is as safe as nothing.


----------



## markrhino (Nov 28, 2011)

I work in a large tertiary hospital and look after countless numbers of cyclists. None have been admitted because they have been wearing earphones and have not heard an oncoming vehicle.


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## bmach (Apr 13, 2011)

Cyco, I like music when riding but only on certain roads and I use a stereo to mono single earbud and low volume. Please tell me how not having music will prevent a car from hitting me from behind or tuning into me or cutting in front of me? Your hearing a car for seven seconds did noting to prevent you from getting hit. Through this whole thread I have not read anyone whos life was saved by not listening nor anyone who was hit because they where. Just like not wearing them while driving does nothing at all. How many of you crank you the tunes when driving and you could not even hear an emergency vehicle until it was right on top of you. I was doing 40 down a hill and because of the wind noise i did not hear adump truck with a bucket loader on a trailer until it was right next to me. That was without music and caused by the wind noise. I guess we should not ride so fast that we can't hear either as that would be stupid So to each their own and do what you are comfortable with.


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## sawaymilno (Sep 6, 2012)

I do. Just make sure to use your eyes more often to make up for the lack of hearing.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

markrhino said:


> I work in a large tertiary hospital and look after countless numbers of cyclists. None have been admitted because they have been wearing earphones and have not heard an oncoming vehicle.


There it is, solid proof that wearing headphone while riding does not prevent accidents, no matter what others say they have proof that this is wrong.

How Legal is it to Wear Headphones While Riding a Bicycle? | Michigan Motorcycle Accident Lawyer Blog
Headphones while riding | Bike UMD
Cyclists Get It In The Ear Over Headphones - BikeRadar

Before any of you start your little rants please note, I'm not totally against wearing earphones, there are some circumstances where wearing such stuff wouldn't really matter, like being on a bike path, or a country road, but on streets that are busy I don't understand why you should be wearing them. I understand that people drive cars with windows up and their stereo blasting and they can't even hear the emergency siren next to them! But at least with a car you stand a good chance of surviving an accident if the lost of hearing caused a delay in reaction to a problem...on a bicycle you don't have that ability to survive as well. You're already dealing with reduced hearing due to wind rushing into your ear canal without adding the music into the mix. I happen to prefer to have all my senses working when riding, besides when I'm riding I would much rather listen to the music of nature then the clatter of man made junk...again, I said I would rather, didn't say you should. Also I'm the type of guy that when I listen to music I don't want to hear music through headphones because the poor sound quality, nor do I like to listen to music with background noise, I also like to feel the music when I listen, thus sitting a home in the quiet of my living room with the speakers going is much more enjoyable of an experience then ear phones or even at home larger headphones.

Also on the subject of ear phones, there are two types of earphones on the market. The first type is the in-ear earphones, these phones let in the least amount of ambient noise. The second type is ear bud earphones, these type let in the most ambient noise. But even with the better headphones there is about a 10db reduction in ambient noise, not that much but it could delay hearing something a second or two if you hadn't been wearing anything. The other in-ear earphones reduce ambient noise by as much as 25db, this too me is unacceptable. Headphones are relatively cheap so if you haven't already done so buy the ear bud style instead of the in-ear style.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

octobahn said:


> I use to but it's a bit distracting so i've since stopped. I've found I enjoy the ride more now than when I had something blasting my ear drums away.


The music doesn't need to be blasting. As long it's quiet, you'll be able to hear louder things like a car or truck.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

froze said:


> There it is, solid proof that wearing headphone while riding does not prevent accidents, no matter what others say they have proof that this is wrong.
> 
> How Legal is it to Wear Headphones While Riding a Bicycle? | Michigan Motorcycle Accident Lawyer Blog
> Headphones while riding | Bike UMD
> ...


Referring to yourself in the third person again?


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## octobahn (May 30, 2012)

spade2you said:


> The music doesn't need to be blasting. As long it's quiet, you'll be able to hear louder things like a car or truck.


I'm exaggerating but even at low volumns it detracts from the ride. I didn't really have any issues with hearing traffic as I used the wrap around type headsets that don't completely close off the ears like buds tend to do.


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## Squrkey (Mar 24, 2012)

CycoBob said:


> I'de have more respect for those advocating earbuds, if they'd merely say "Yeah, it's more dangerous, but I'm willing to accept the risk", rather than trying to make believe that obscuring their hearing is somehow not an impediment to their safety on a bike.


Good point psyco, but I believe that is what most people who have a different viewpoint then yours are inferring, that it is a greater risk. However becasue of this they use more caution in other aspects of cycling while wearing headphones to mitigate the risk. 



froze said:


> You and I know hearing is essential, but people want what people want and if they believe that having buds in their ears and music going is safe they will try to come up with every kind of "proof" to show their right.


Hi Froze, maybe you used the wrong word here, hearing is not essential to riding a bike.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

octobahn said:


> I'm exaggerating but even at low volumns it detracts from the ride. I didn't really have any issues with hearing traffic as I used the wrap around type headsets that don't completely close off the ears like buds tend to do.


I'm not exaggerating when I keep my music quiet enough to hear cars coming.

If you experiment with playing a stereo at low volumes and have a conversation, you can still hear that conversation, right?


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## octobahn (May 30, 2012)

spade2you said:


> I'm not exaggerating when I keep my music quiet enough to hear cars coming.
> 
> If you experiment with playing a stereo at low volumes and have a conversation, you can still hear that conversation, right?


Depends. I don't use them if I ride with people. If I happen to meet someone while on a ride I can hear and make out most of what they say but I typically would remove my headset. It's a moot point for me since I don't use then anymore. The only sound I wanna hear is my voice as I yell "LEFT! "


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Squrkey said:


> Hi Froze, maybe you used the wrong word here, hearing is not essential to riding a bike.


No I did not use the wrong word!!! Any tool you use to keep yourself safe is essential, and hearing is just one such tool.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

froze said:


> No I did not use the wrong word!!! Any tool you use to keep yourself safe is essential, and hearing is just one such tool.


deaf people ride. 
so obviously it's not essential.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

den bakker said:


> deaf people ride.
> so obviously it's not essential.


As one who is, it's kind of 'ignorance is bliss'. 


I can't hear vehicles, let alone fellow cyclists, coming up behind me until they're right next to me.

Of course, I use a huge Fred helmet mirror.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

CycoBob said:


> Common sense is not very popular these days.
> 
> I'de have more respect for those advocating earbuds, if they'd merely say "Yeah, it's more dangerous, but I'm willing to accept the risk", rather than trying to make believe that obscuring their hearing is somehow not an impediment to their safety on a bike. (And then when they get hit, they'll sue the driver, and demand more legislation requiring cars to not get within 2 miles of them....)




Nah, it's not more dangerous unless you are an inexperienced or clueless rider.



> How would you know? Do you specifically ask them? I doubt most riders would say "I was oblivious because of the music blaring in my ears, and I got hit". No, instead they'll say "I was just riding along, minding my own business, and this car came out of nowhere and hit me!". I'd bet, according to your patients, in EVERY case, it was not their own fault that they got hit......


He knows the same way helmet and anti-earbud zealots "know" that those items are significant safety factors because of anecdotal evidence. It works neither way, but it's nice to hear some that makes common sense (that earbuds don't cause accidents) for a change.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

den bakker said:


> deaf people ride.
> so obviously it's not essential.


You can't read with understanding can you? Please reread it and this time try to grasp what I was saying.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

froze said:


> You can't read with understanding can you? Please reread it and this time try to grasp what I was saying.


"You and I know hearing is essential, but people want what people want and if they believe that having buds in their ears and music going is safe they will try to come up with every kind of "proof" to show their right. "
you want me to bold face, underline and let it stick out in neon for you as well? 

one more time, you can ride a bike without hearing. It is not essential. An advantage? sure. But then people should not ride in the wind either or in busy environments.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

den bakker said:


> "You and I know hearing is essential, but people want what people want and if they believe that having buds in their ears and music going is safe they will try to come up with every kind of "proof" to show their right. "
> you want me to bold face, underline and let it stick out in neon for you as well?
> 
> one more time, you can ride a bike without hearing. It is not essential. An advantage? sure. But then people should not ride in the wind either or in busy environments.


Going fast starts to add noise, too. My disc wheel makes too much noise when I'm going fast.


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## TimV (Mar 20, 2007)

*What about during a race?*

I did a road race last weekend and some idiot in the group thought it was a good idea to wear ear buds. I'm not sure what he was listening to or how loud it was but when I went to pass him I had to announce my presence twice (and loudly) before he even knew I was there.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

TimV said:


> I did a road race last weekend and some idiot in the group thought it was a good idea to wear ear buds. I'm not sure what he was listening to or how loud it was but when I went to pass him I had to announce my presence twice (and loudly) before he even knew I was there.


don't you just hate it when you have to yell "on your left" twice 
(just why exactly do you need to announce your presence?)


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## arai_speed (Aug 19, 2003)

This thread DELIVERS!


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

TimV said:


> I did a road race last weekend and some idiot in the group thought it was a good idea to wear ear buds. I'm not sure what he was listening to or how loud it was but when I went to pass him I had to announce my presence twice (and loudly) before he even knew I was there.


Was this a USAC sanctioned race? I'm pretty sure it's against the rules.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

CycoBob said:


> It does depend a lot on the conditions under which you ride. As another poster said, riding in a place like NYC...it's a given that cars are always there- so it wsould make little difference.
> 
> Me? I ride on narrow ountry roads, with no shoulders or even fog lines....often barely wide enough for two cars going opposite directions to pass without going right to the extreme edge of the road. The extreme 9" to a foot of the right side of the road is ofter buzz strip...and right next to that, a ditch or drop-off.....so it would be impractical for me to ride the extreme right as a matter of normal conduct. I take my [narrow] lane or at least 3 feet of the right side.......I move right when a car comes from behind, as a matter of courtesy. In many situations (Blind hills and curves) I have to move to the extreme right, as it would be dangerous for the car to go left to pass me (and perish the thought that anyone should actually wait behind me for 10 seconds, until they could see what weas coming the other way or safely pass me....)
> 
> ...


Where's my diagram???


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

CycoBob said:


> On todays ride, I crest a blind hill, and there was a guy on a riding mower going down the street! Being able to hear the mower, I had advance warning that something was there. If I had been in my truck, I may well have hit him (people here a stupid!). It was nice to finally be the one to go flying past somebody for a change! Haha....slow riding mower....GET OFF THE ROAD!!! :wink:


going through this thread I think you'd be more safe riding in Mogadishu than where ever you are.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

CycoBob said:


> It's coming...... Since switching to a Linux OS two years ago, I've never had a chance to fool with it's equivalent of "Paint".....and my scanner is busted, so I can't just draw one by hand.....
> 
> 
> 
> LOL! Yeah...the things you see here. On one ride, a guy had a horse's lead tied to the bumper of his truck, and was leading the horse down the road with the truck! Occasional cows get out into the road. I was chased bhy a rooster on my first bike ride! And although there's little traffic, people here drive like twatwaffles! Add to that: narrow, winding, hilly roads....hehe....I really think it was safer riding and driving in Manhattan!


I get the feeling you fit in better where ever it is you live now.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

There is a lot of livestock on my route. Never seen a cow on the road. They're worth a good amount of money, so the ranchers tend to keep them penned up.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

and BTW, what's a twatwaffle?

seems the definition is open to interpretation

Urban Dictionary: twatwaffle


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

den bakker said:


> don't you just hate it when you have to yell "on your left" twice
> (just why exactly do you need to announce your presence?)


When I raced, the lowest Cat. was IV. When I moved up to III, I was told by a buddy to stay away from anyone that states "on your left" as these people were still gomers that somehow snook up into Cat. III. Oh boy, did I just use snook in a sentence?


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

foto said:


> Where's my diagram???


Yes, I agree. I need a diagram of all of Cyco's posts so I don't have to read large paragraphs describing in detail his unique, hearing dependent cycling environment.


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## Squrkey (Mar 24, 2012)

froze said:


> No I did not use the wrong word!!! Any tool you use to keep yourself safe is essential, and hearing is just one such tool.


Froze, respecfully I must persist. You used the wrong word, or the word wrong. Essential means that is is absolutly nesassary. Hearing is not absoulutly nessasary to riding a bike. Is further explanation really essential?

Its like saying hearing is essential to swimming, I dont need to hear when I'm swimming anymore than I need to hear when riding a bike. Please just take a moment and see if you can find a different word that doesnt overdramitize your position.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Ellen55Ma said:


> respect vehicles and don't surprise their drivers


This is it! Exactly.


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## FindTheRiver (May 26, 2012)

I know I said was going to try a ride with music, but I still haven't done it. If and when I do, it'll have to be a weekend ride where I can get a little more "out there" roads-wise. There's no way I'd have anything in my ears on my weeknight rides. I try to stay away from the heavily travelled roads as much as possible, but during the week I'm still amongst the distracted drivers in a hurry to get home. I'll keep every advantage I can get in those conditions, and being able to hear what's coming from behind is a pretty big one to me.


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## JasonLopez (Aug 19, 2012)

Velobeats.com


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Never*

I need every one of my senses to help me survive
I cannot tell you how many times my ears alerted me to danger
the person accelerating behind you to slam on their brakes and make a right turn in front of you to get into the starbucks parking lot

no hearing and I'd have been hit multiple times


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## TimV (Mar 20, 2007)

den bakker said:


> don't you just hate it when you have to yell "on your left" twice
> (just why exactly do you need to announce your presence?)


The other rider was pushing me towards the center line. That's the only reason I felt compelled to say anything.



spade2you said:


> Was this a USAC sanctioned race? I'm pretty sure it's against the rules.


Yes. I'm pretty sure it is, too.


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## mudfreek (Sep 6, 2012)

i listen to music wile i ride been doing so for 15 20 yrs i havent had any issues but i also look around wile im riding so i can keep an eye on traffic


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## mo_amyot (Jun 15, 2012)

I would never wear earbuds while riding with a group but I cannot live with my high bpm beats when I ride alone.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

TimV said:


> The other rider was pushing me towards the center line. That's the only reason I felt compelled to say anything.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. I'm pretty sure it is, too.


Should have gotten him disqualified. No place for that in a mass start race.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Although I haven't partaken in music listening, what will probably end up happening if I do is that my ride will end up being a cruise ride and I'll be pretty much oblivious of vehicles and cyclists around me.


The only exception would be motivational music, also known as emo-invoked music, for when I race future TT's. And since I'll be riding/racing on restricted roads I should be safe  .


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## Ken2 (Jan 30, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> I need every one of my senses to help me survive
> I cannot tell you how many times my ears alerted me to danger
> the person accelerating behind you to slam on their brakes and make a right turn in front of you to get into the starbucks parking lot. no hearing and I'd have been hit multiple times


That's what mirrors are for!


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## gskalt (Aug 13, 2012)

i'm BRAND new to cycling. i dont even own my own bike yet at this point, using a borrowed one. but i learned that listening isnt a great idea on roads. what i started doing, yesterday actually.... i haev my iphone on an arm band. i use it for the run keeper app so i can track my activity. i dont plug the headphones in, so i can hear a little through the speakers but only enough to give me some music to have in my head. i enjoy the speed and wind a lot better.

when i was on vacation on a paved bike trail with no vehicles, i used it. but i think its a bad idea.


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## markrhino (Nov 28, 2011)

CycoBob said:


> Common sense is not very popular these days.
> 
> 
> How would you know? Do you specifically ask them? I doubt most riders would say "I was oblivious because of the music blaring in my ears, and I got hit". No, instead they'll say "I was just riding along, minding my own business, and this car came out of nowhere and hit me!". I'd bet, according to your patients, in EVERY case, it was not their own fault that they got hit......



Hi CycoBob,
Yes, i actually do ask them. I'm one of these crazy practitioners who actually talks to my patients and because i'm a cyclist myself i have even more interest in why they have presented. I'm not exactly sure why you would find this incredulous?


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

atpjunkie said:


> no hearing and I'd have been hit multiple times


This assumes that wearing headphones results in no hearing, or even severely compromised hearing. It also assumes that hearing is always non-deceptive. 

People can reference all sorts of personal experiences. As such, I will present mine. I have crashed more than a few times. None while listening to music. Here are five things more dangerous than riding with headphones:

1. Riding in groups.
2. Riding fast and curvy descents.
3. Riding in thunder storms.
4. Bike racing.
5. Riding on wet roads.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

markrhino said:


> Hi CycoBob,
> Yes, i actually do ask them. I'm one of these crazy practitioners who actually talks to my patients and because i'm a cyclist myself i have even more interest in why they have presented. I'm not exactly sure why you would find this incredulous?


That's because they find the entire medical community incredulous, first it's helmets that do nothing to protect our heads; and now it's music blaring away in the ears doesn't matter because deaf people ride bikes. That's some fantastic scientific logic doc, more so then yours don't you think? It's not like being a doctor means something, I'm sure the guy in the bike department at Walmart knows more then doctors.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Tschai said:


> This assumes that wearing headphones results in no hearing, or even severely compromised hearing. It also assumes that hearing is always non-deceptive.
> 
> People can reference all sorts of personal experiences. As such, I will present mine. I have crashed more than a few times. None while listening to music. Here are five things more dangerous than riding with headphones:
> 
> ...


While you're right those 5 items are probably more dangerous, but is that a reason to ride with music blaring away so you can't hear as well and may put yourself into harms way? It would seem to make more sense to me, especially after all the crashes you had, that you would want to try to eliminate the possibility of more accidents, and if riding without headphones eliminated that chance by 1% is that not worth it? I guess not.


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## FindTheRiver (May 26, 2012)

I had a situation a month or so ago. I was in the bike lane climbing a slight hill, and I could hear what I knew was a truck coming from behind, but it sounded slighly "off". I instictively slid over to the right even more than I already was. Turns out, it was a truck pulling a boat that stuck out several feet wider than the truck itself. I wouldn't have picked that up if I'd had music playing I'm sure.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

froze said:


> While you're right those 5 items are probably more dangerous, but is that a reason to ride with music blaring away so you can't hear as well and may put yourself into harms way? It would seem to make more sense to me, especially after all the crashes you had, that you would want to try to eliminate the possibility of more accidents, and if riding without headphones eliminated that chance by 1% is that not worth it? I guess not.


By this logic, I can eliminate 100% of all future accidents if I simply stop riding. 

And, if we assume that these 5 items are more dangerous than headphones, by your logic it would seem to make more sense to not ride in groups and to not race. Imagine the backlash on that one. People would be up in arms if I posted that racing or riding in groups is stupid because they are too dangerous. My point being that people seem to have no problem with racing or riding in groups regardless of the danger, but they get all hot and bothered about headphones. I still say they get hot and bothered about headphones for reasons other than safety. They just don't like it or they think it looks foolish or they have issues with shirtless, helmet-less oafs on bike paths that delay their precious flow. Blah, blah, blah. 

Also, I don't blare music. I keep the volume at a moderate level, which I still say does not impact one's hearing. I also tend to listen to podcasts more than music. I happen to love Dan Carlin's Hardcore History episodes. If I want to listen to nature, I go to the zoo.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Tschai said:


> By this logic, I can eliminate 100% of all future accidents if I simply stop riding.
> 
> .


That's just plain stupid, by the logic you just puked out you might as well stop driving your car too.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

froze said:


> That's just plain stupid, by the logic you just puked out you might as well stop driving your car too.


Well, life is all about degrees. In any case, it's not my logic, it's yours. 

Riding with headphones provides me with great pleasure. Even if there was a 1% increase in danger, something I am not convinced of, it is well worth the risk.


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## markrhino (Nov 28, 2011)

froze said:


> That's because they find the entire medical community incredulous,
> 
> Who's 'they'?
> 
> That's some fantastic scientific logic doc, more so then yours don't you think? It's not like being a doctor means something, I'm sure the guy in the bike department at Walmart knows more then doctors.


Never said it was 'fantastic logic' its just my own anecdotal evidence. Its my opinion, just the same as yours, its only an opinion.
Never said i was a Dr. Never said my opinion means any more than yours.
I'm sure the people at Walmart do know more than Drs (About non-medical related stuff)

Remember, to assume makes an ASS out of U and ME.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Tschai said:


> Well, life is all about degrees. In any case, it's not my logic, it's yours.
> 
> Riding with headphones provides me with great pleasure. Even if there was a 1% increase in danger, something I am not convinced of, it is well worth the risk.


I see, so by you taking my logic to the utmost exaggerated extreme is my logic...we all know what kind of logic you have that's for sure!

So by what your saying, that since low tire pressure in you car's tires results in about 1% of all accidents, don't bother checking your tire pressures, it's not worth the effort so don't drive your car. That's the kind of logic you're expressing. Yeah I know, stupid isn't it?


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

markrhino said:


> Never said it was 'fantastic logic' its just my own anecdotal evidence. Its my opinion, just the same as yours, its only an opinion.
> Never said i was a Dr. Never said my opinion means any more than yours.
> I'm sure the people at Walmart do know more than Drs (About non-medical related stuff)
> 
> Remember, to assume makes an ASS out of U and ME.


Really? but you felt the need to insult a doctor's knowledge of the real world and situational causes and effects of not wearing helmets or earbuds while riding. I'm sorry, but I'll take the word of some doctor on medical related stuff because that's what this is about, long before somebody like you, because for all I know you may work at Walmart!!


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## wayne57 (Sep 7, 2012)

I will at times if I'm riding on a paved trail but never in traffic.


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## WannabePBA (Sep 8, 2012)

If I am by myself, I listen to music, but can usually hear traffic, etc. I just started doing group rides, and when I do that, I either don't listen to the music, or just use one earbud.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

froze said:


> I see, so by you taking my logic to the utmost exaggerated extreme is my logic...we all know what kind of logic you have that's for sure!
> 
> So by what your saying, that since low tire pressure in you car's tires results in about 1% of all accidents, don't bother checking your tire pressures, it's not worth the effort so don't drive your car. That's the kind of logic you're expressing. Yeah I know, stupid isn't it?


Nice. You have high credibility now by spewing out words like stupid towards other posters, which you have done twice to me, not to mention the other posters you have insulted. 

Taking your logic to the utmost extreme exposes how worthless it is. 

In any case, your tire pressure analogy is also worthless. I don't gain pleasure from driving with low air pressure. Again, although I do not believe that riding with headphones increases danger, if we assume it does, I am willing to take the small risk that comes with it in exchange for the benefit it provides. It is not a question of simply ignoring a risk. There is a huge benefit.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

froze said:


> Really? but you felt the need to insult a doctor's knowledge of the real world and situational causes and effects of not wearing helmets or earbuds while riding. I'm sorry, but I'll take the word of some doctor on medical related stuff because that's what this is about, long before somebody like you, because for all I know you may work at Walmart!!


You categorically dismiss the knowledge of those that work at Walmart simply because they work at Walmart?

Nice.


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## ThemBigAnts (May 2, 2012)

When I ride solo I have headphones on. Where I ride I'm not worried. On a normal 40 miles ride, I pass about 7-9 Amish buggies.


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## mistrpeepers (Sep 9, 2012)

No. bad idea.


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## markrhino (Nov 28, 2011)

froze said:


> Really? but you felt the need to insult a doctor's knowledge of the real world and situational causes and effects of not wearing helmets or earbuds while riding. I'm sorry, but I'll take the word of some doctor on medical related stuff because that's what this is about, long before somebody like you, because for all I know you may work at Walmart!!


Might be time to climb down off that high horse of yours froze. Your just embarrassing yourself now.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Tschai said:


> This assumes that wearing headphones results in no hearing, or even severely compromised hearing. It also assumes that hearing is always non-deceptive.
> 
> People can reference all sorts of personal experiences. As such, I will present mine. I have crashed more than a few times. None while listening to music. Here are five things more dangerous than riding with headphones:
> 
> ...


I'd add to this as number 1: riding through intersections and number 2: riding on sidwalks, especially "against" traffic.

I have to say I've NEVER heard of anyone being injured due to them not hearing traffic or being "impaired" by using ear buds. Every fatality I can remember from the last few years in my town have been from either sidewalkcyclists being run over from cars turning across their path or coming off a side street or drive way. Or just drunks running red lights on bikes on sidewalks. Or normal street cyclists being right hooked or hit by careless drivers.

Intersections, and other "normal" cycling habits are so much more dangerous than riding with earbuds, it's not even worth considering, imho.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

markrhino said:


> Might be time to climb down off that high horse of yours froze. Your just embarrassing yourself now.


That's all you can come up with? That's funny, talk about embarrassment!


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

Camilo said:


> I'd add to this as number 1: riding through intersections and number 2: riding on sidwalks, especially "against" traffic.
> 
> I have to say I've NEVER heard of anyone being injured due to them not hearing traffic or being "impaired" by using ear buds. Every fatality I can remember from the last few years in my town have been from either sidewalkcyclists being run over from cars turning across their path or coming off a side street or drive way. Or just drunks running red lights on bikes on sidewalks. Or normal street cyclists being right hooked or hit by careless drivers.
> 
> Intersections, and other "normal" cycling habits are so much more dangerous than riding with earbuds, it's not even worth considering, imho.


Agreed.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Just curious: how will some of you continue to ride now with electric cars on the road? you can forget about relying on hearing.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

den bakker said:


> Just curious: how will some of you continue to ride now with electric cars on the road? you can forget about relying on hearing.


What are the percentage of electric vehicles on the road??


I see hybrids about once a week but not true electric cars.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

cda 455 said:


> What are the percentage of electric vehicles on the road??
> 
> 
> I see hybrids about once a week but not true electric cars.


I believe the usual argument is "it only takes one"  
A hybrid would be the same problem if running on battery at the time. Is there any reason to believe their numbers won't increase?


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

den bakker said:


> Just curious: how will some of you continue to ride now with electric cars on the road? you can forget about relying on hearing.


You can still hear the tires rolling on the pavement, but besides that their going to be putting some sort of noise making thing so people can hear them. If hearing wasn't the least bit important why would car manufactures do that? oh, that's right for the blind, but they are also doing because people can't hear them. And the noise is only at lower speeds, at high speeds the tires will make all the noise they need. While there hasn't been any deaths associated with the silence you can't report that as proof since there are very few electric cars on the road. http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/transportation/are-electric-vehicles-too-quiet/644


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

froze said:


> You can still hear the tires rolling on the pavement


So, going 15mph+ into a 20mph headwind, you can hear car tires? Keep in mind the wind speed acts as a vector and that's 35mph of wind rushing past your ears.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Camilo said:


> I have to say I've NEVER heard of anyone being injured due to them not hearing traffic or being "impaired" by using ear buds. Every fatality I can remember from the last few years in my town have been from either sidewalkcyclists being run over from cars turning across their path or coming off a side street or drive way. Or just drunks running red lights on bikes on sidewalks. Or normal street cyclists being right hooked or hit by careless drivers.


When was the last time a dead cyclist said they didn't hear the car coming? Just wondering. People have eyes and it never fails that in most accidents the at fault driver says "I never saw them!". I'm just as equally sure people had accidents because they didn't know they were there due to a lack of hearing. 

And to use a deaf person for an example is wrong, because their sense of visual acuity is heightened and they pay more attention to their surroundings then people who have all their senses. When a person who has all their senses loses one due to ear buds they are not trained to be as alert as a deaf person. 

Driving is a different animal then riding a bike, driving a car is mostly visual anyway, but riding a bike has some degree of hearing importance so a car accelerating pass you so they can turn in front of you cutting you off you can hear and slow down.

Here is a forum for deaf people talking about this very subject: http://www.alldeaf.com/deaf-products-technologies/76058-deaf-cyclist-needs-advice.html


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

spade2you said:


> So, going 15mph+ into a 20mph headwind, you can hear car tires? Keep in mind the wind speed acts as a vector and that's 35mph of wind rushing past your ears.


I already mentioned in an earlier post about the wind in the ear, but that doesn't make you deaf, or at least me, I can hear a car coming from about at least a 1/10th of mile if I was doing 30, but you add music into the mix and could easily cut that way down because of the wind noise one naturally turns up the music so they can hear it to some degree over the wind.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

froze said:


> I already mentioned in an earlier post about the wind in the ear, but that doesn't make you deaf, or at least me, I can hear a car coming from about at least a 1/10th of mile if I was doing 30, but you add music into the mix and could easily cut that way down because of the wind noise one naturally turns up the music so they can hear it to some degree over the wind.


If you are going to claim that you can just hear the tires of an approaching from behind as 35mph of wind zings by your ears, we're gonna need to see some proof.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

spade2you said:


> If you are going to claim that you can just hear the tires of an approaching from behind as 35mph of wind zings by your ears, we're gonna need to see some proof.


I'm obviously not as fast as you, I can't go on a straight and level road at 35 mph for mile after mile. Probably if I could you would might be right. Since you can travel that fast on your bike for mile after mile then I'm sure you know better then I do...Funny thing, I'm not even going to ask you for proof you can ride mile after mile at 35mph!


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## TJay74 (Sep 9, 2012)

If I am on a protected ride (not on roads that vehicles can be on) then yes I like to listen to music while I ride, if I ride in a group then no as I can talk to tohers in the group.

Place you are riding plays alot into if you can listen and ride at the same time.


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## Squrkey (Mar 24, 2012)

froze said:


> When was the last time a dead cyclist said they didn't hear the car coming? Just wondering.


Um...never. When was the last time you talked to dead people?



froze said:


> People have eyes


This is true.



froze said:


> and it never fails that in most accidents the at fault driver says "I never saw them!". I'm just as equally sure people had accidents because they didn't know they were there due to a lack of hearing.


I can not dispute this with statistical data, but I really do not think as many accidents are caused from not hearing danger as not seeing it. 



froze said:


> And to use a deaf person for an example is wrong, because their sense of visual acuity is heightened and they pay more attention to their surroundings then people who have all their senses. When a person who has all their senses loses one due to ear buds they are not trained to be as alert as a deaf person.


Don't you think that when someone takes away one of their senses for whatever reason that other senses are then heightened? Or is it just deaf people who have this power?



froze said:


> Driving is a different animal then riding a bike,


Neither of those are animals, that's just silly.



froze said:


> driving a car is mostly visual anyway, but riding a bike has some degree of hearing importance so a car accelerating pass you so they can turn in front of you cutting you off you can hear and slow down.


You previously stated that hearing was essential to riding a bike, I am glad you now admit that it simply "has some degree of importance".



froze said:


> Here is a forum for deaf people talking about this very subject: Deaf cyclist needs advice. - AllDeaf.com


Nice discussion thanks for sharing.:thumbsup:


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

froze said:


> I'm obviously not as fast as you, I can't go on a straight and level road at 35 mph for mile after mile. Probably if I could you would might be right. Since you can travel that fast on your bike for mile after mile then I'm sure you know better then I do...Funny thing, I'm not even going to ask you for proof you can ride mile after mile at 35mph!


It's not about pure speed. If you can go 15mph against a 20mph wind, your ears are getting a combined wind of 35mph. 

I never made a claim I can go 35mph. Your comprehension skills are about as strong as your grasp on this topic. However, I could submit that I can sustain 30mph+ while on a TT bike with a massive tailwind for approx 10 miles. 

Like a man with a sweat pants boner, I think you're standing alone on your soapbox, chief.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

froze said:


> When was the last time a dead cyclist said they didn't hear the car coming? Just wondering. People have eyes and it never fails that in most accidents the at fault driver says "I never saw them!". I'm just as equally sure people had accidents because they didn't know they were there due to a lack of hearing.
> 
> And to use a deaf person for an example is wrong, because their sense of visual acuity is heightened and they pay more attention to their surroundings then people who have all their senses. When a person who has all their senses loses one due to ear buds they are not trained to be as alert as a deaf person.
> 
> ...


1. Statistics show that most accidents are not caused by cars running into cyclists from behind. The percentage for rear accidents is quite low.
2. Whether a driver in an accident saw the bike rider or not is 100% not relevant to the topic of headphones.
3. It is a myth that deaf people have higher visual acuity. Moreover, even if they do, I would also have the same higher level of visual acuity from riding with headphones for 20 plus years.
4. I read that thread. It actually proves my point. The thread consists of nothing more than one dude insisting that riding against traffic is safer than riding with it.


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## sgalante (May 5, 2009)

I would never ride with headphones on both ears. 

Not sure about the laws in all the other states, but in NY, it is illegal to ride a bike or drive a car wearing headphones that are being used for BOTH ears. As a bike rider with quite a few relatives in law enforcement, I can attest to the fact that they have each given out a number of tickets this past year for doing just that. Bicycles in Upstate NY are held to the same basic set of safety laws that cars are held to. Stopping at Red lights, riding with traffic, and headphones can only be worn in 1 ear while driving or riding.


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## martinrjensen (Sep 23, 2007)

Incorrect. Cars still make lots of tire noise and that's what I hear more than the engine in most cases. Most new cars have very quiet engines, which I rarely hear, and yes my hearing is very good.


den bakker said:


> Just curious: how will some of you continue to ride now with electric cars on the road? you can forget about relying on hearing.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

martinrjensen said:


> Incorrect. Cars still make lots of tire noise and that's what I hear more than the engine in most cases. Most new cars have very quiet engines, which I rarely hear, and yes my hearing is very good.


Most high efficiency cars have low rolling resistance tires.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

spade2you said:


> Most high efficiency cars have low rolling resistance tires.


Low rolling resistance does not equal low noise; no tire is silent...unless it's not moving!


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

froze said:


> Low rolling resistance does not equal low noise.


Well, they resist less and roll smoothly with less resistance, which often translates to lower noise. 

These have high resistance and high noise.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Squrkey said:


> Um...never. When was the last time you talked to dead people?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your ignorant. You need to read a lot more about deaf people and how and why they can get a long so well without hearing, us, with all our senses, we cannot learn to see better because for 2 hours we close our ears, it doesn't work that way.

And just as that was ignorant....well I don't enough time in a day to go through all the other stuff you said line by line, the hearing thing was the major deal.

Thanks for sharing....I think.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

I generally ride with headphones under the following conditions: I'm alone, I'm in the country and not in the city, and I'm not on a trail where I might encounter others. Usually by myself I listen at a fairly low volume, and sometimes I just keep the ear buds in to block some of the ambient noise and I also tend to get ear aches from too much side wind.
I personally am comfortable taking risks with my own safety, but I wouldn't do anything to endanger others by my actions. I'm reasonably certain that if some one does come up behind me to pass, they should be smart enough to ensure there are no cars in our lane and they give me a wide berth, as I'd do for them. There is never a reason to yell on your left on a public road, you simply wait to pass like any other vehicle.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

spade2you said:


> Well, they resist less and roll smoothly with less resistance, which often translates to lower noise.
> 
> These have high resistance and high noise.


True to a point,but we're not talking about 4x4's, we're talking about small passenger cars. Granted you could find some block design tires that could generate a wee bit more noise, but most tires on the market today for small passenger cars are already low rolling resistant tires, and you can hear those tires when the rubber rolls across the pavement. Granted the slower a car goes the less tire noise there is, but that's why electric car manufacture are going to install a noise making element to these cars so they can be heard, then at a certain speed that noise will stop, why? Because the tires will make enough noise on their own that a person with normal hearing can hear.

And what's the big fuss about the electric car thing anyway, I haven't seen one of those yet even on the road!! So I seriously doubt their any threat to cyclists because they can't hear them, the reason cyclists can't hear them is because there isn't any!!!!!


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

nOOky said:


> I generally ride with headphones under the following conditions: I'm alone, I'm in the country and not in the city, and I'm not on a trail where I might encounter others. Usually by myself I listen at a fairly low volume, and sometimes I just keep the ear buds in to block some of the ambient noise and I also tend to get ear aches from too much side wind.
> I personally am comfortable taking risks with my own safety, but I wouldn't do anything to endanger others by my actions. I'm reasonably certain that if some one does come up behind me to pass, they should be smart enough to ensure there are no cars in our lane and they give me a wide berth, as I'd do for them. There is never a reason to yell on your left on a public road, you simply wait to pass like any other vehicle.


Of all the responses we got on this subject, you at least told the truth!! Thank you. You realize that there is a hearing problem with them on, you realize there is a potential of risk involved when wearing them, and you're willing to accept that risk. 

I use to race cars, then bicycles, the risk of crashing was high and I knew that, but it was a risk I was willing to take. For whatever reasons I've decided years ago never to wear anything in my ears to hinder my hearing, besides I like to listen to nature and I can't stand the crappy sound quality from ear buds then have to compete with the wind noise, no thanks. I like to hear my music in as much of a pristine environment that I can get so I can hear all the instruments, the notes, and feel the vibration of the music, etc, I can't get that with ear buds, I can't even get all of that with my Sennheiser headphones thus I rarely use them.


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## jdwilkinso (Jun 13, 2010)

Never.


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## Bonn55ie (Sep 12, 2012)

I have seen some riders employ just one bud so they can hear out of the other ear.


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## shermes (Jul 26, 2008)

froze said:


> *Your ignorant.* You need to read a lot more about deaf people and how and why they can get a long so well without hearing, us, with all our senses, we cannot learn to see better because for 2 hours we close our ears, it doesn't work that way.
> 
> And just as that was ignorant....well I don't enough time in a day to go through all the other stuff you said line by line, the hearing thing was the major deal.
> 
> Thanks for sharing....I think.


I think you mean you're


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

shermes said:


> I think you mean you're


What if I meant we're?


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## fuzzy (Jul 19, 2011)

I ride with a small mirror in my riding glasses and scan what is behind me a lot. If I am on a road with a nice wide paved shoulder and not much traffic, I will listen to my ear buds..outside noise suppressing type...at full volume...in both ears....at the same time...and I like it. If I am somewhere I might not be as comfortable, such as on narrow country roads or in a lot of city traffic, I might not. It just depends on the situation I am in.


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## vettracer (Jan 12, 2011)

spade2you said:


> Well, they resist less and roll smoothly with less resistance, which often translates to lower noise.
> 
> These have high resistance and high noise.


Dude, turn the music down and you will notice that you can hear the tires of an electric car just fine. 
I live in SoCal and can assure you that electric cars sound just like other cars when they are moving.


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## shermes (Jul 26, 2008)

froze said:


> What if I meant we're?


That works too.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

vettracer said:


> Dude, turn the music down and you will notice that you can hear the tires of an electric car just fine.
> I live in SoCal and can assure you that electric cars sound just like other cars when they are moving.


"Dude"? Oh, you must be from California.


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## Squrkey (Mar 24, 2012)

Froze, no need to resort to insults, please keep it friendly.


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## Squrkey (Mar 24, 2012)

den bakker said:


> Just curious: how will some of you continue to ride now with electric cars on the road? you can forget about relying on hearing.


The best thing about electric cars is the CarBack app. all electric cars will send a signal to smart devices that can be monitored by cyclist through head phones.


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## arai_speed (Aug 19, 2003)

So in summary, some of us like riding with music and some of us don't.


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## crosschecking (Sep 24, 2010)

I listen to music on most of my solo rides. It helps to motivate me at times when I am dragging. Always with just one ear (the side away from traffic) and at a very moderate level so I can hear traffic (nearly as well as without). Never on a group ride. I use a mirror and I don't think that having one ear of moderate music significantly hinders my safety.


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## Erion929 (Jun 10, 2010)

arai_speed said:


> So in summary, some of us like riding with music and some of us don't.



*LOCK the THREAD!* :thumbsup:


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

bump.


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## jn35646 (Aug 24, 2011)

I assume the first time I ride with music I'll get ran over, so I don't.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Squrkey said:


> Froze, no need to resort to insults, please keep it friendly.


If at first you don't succeed, throw feces! :idea:


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## Erion929 (Jun 10, 2010)

jn35646 said:


> I assume the first time I ride with music I'll get ran over, so I don't.



That's a bad way to go through life....hope that doesn't apply to everything you do 

**


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

arai_speed said:


> So in summary, some of us like riding with music and some of us don't.


Add to this: it appears that the consensus is that one group are idiots and the other are ignorant? Or maybe one group are ignorant and the other are idiots? I'll have to go back and read the whole thread again so I can get that right.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Camilo said:


> Add to this: it appears that the consensus is that one group are idiots and the other are ignorant? Or maybe one group are ignorant and the other are idiots? I'll have to go back and read the whole thread again so I can get that right.


I don't know, I'm too stupid to figure it out.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

froze said:


> I don't know, I'm too stupid to figure it out.


Let me know when you do, and maybe make a sticky thread or FAQ so the unitiated won't have to start a new thread 10 days from now.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Camilo said:


> Let me know when you do, and maybe make a sticky thread or FAQ so the unitiated won't have to start a new thread 10 days from now.


You know that's impossible, I guarantee you someone will do that in 10 days if not sooner.


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## SOME_1_ELSE_1999 (Apr 22, 2011)

I listen to music on most rides. Sometimes it has a profound effect on my ride. Other times its back ground noise while I try not to get run over.

For me, that instant your starting a long hard climb and that really upbeat, get you motivated kind of song comes on, makes a difference for me.

Some of you may call me simple minded for that but, eh, I like it this way!


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## kimare (Aug 20, 2012)

crosschecking said:


> I listen to music on most of my solo rides. It helps to motivate me at times when I am dragging. Always with just one ear (the side away from traffic) and at a very moderate level so I can hear traffic (nearly as well as without). Never on a group ride. I use a mirror and I don't think that having one ear of moderate music significantly hinders my safety.


In my opinion that's the only acceptable way of hearing music while riding. Personally I prefer riding without music.


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## qwertasdfg24 (Sep 18, 2012)

I used to listen to music when i ride, back when i lived in Montreal, and my ride consist of 90% bike path, and i always stick to the most right hand side.

Now i live in upstate NY, lived here for 6 years, only starting to resume biking again, i don't dare to listen to music anymore while i ride, having seen how people drive wrecklessly for the last 6 years(it's not any better in Montreal). It's just that with cell phone becoming too big in people's life, and too many people are no longer paying attention when driving.

I do however, put 1 headset to my right ear, listening to podcast, and being able to receive phone call as well.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

people who use earbuds while riding are *******s.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Squrkey said:


> Froze, no need to resort to insults, please keep it friendly.


It was entirely friendly. I said you were ignorant, and that's true concerning deaf people vs non-deaf people. I never said you were stupid because you're not, that would have been unfriendly if I had called you stupid. Stupid and ignorant are two totally different meanings, you need to look those two words up.


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## jwl325 (Feb 3, 2010)

I don't have the confidence in my riding abilities to do the music thing--I do admire you folks who can do that. I've only been at this a couple years, so I'm still very tuned in to the road sounds around, and particularly behind me, and not all that confidant in my ability to focus. 

On the plus side, while I seriously love music, I find the relative quiet on a ride really refreshing.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

jwl325 said:


> I don't have the confidence in my riding abilities to do the music thing--I do admire you folks who can do that. I've only been at this a couple years, so I'm still very tuned in to the road sounds around, and particularly behind me, and not all that confidant in my ability to focus.
> 
> On the plus side, while I seriously love music, I find the relative quiet on a ride really refreshing.


After 40 years of riding I'm still in that boat with you. Only difference is between you and I is that with my experience I may have the confidence to ride without hearing, but I don't have the confidence of those around me to have driving abilities.


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## NTA (Apr 4, 2010)

arai_speed said:


> Depends on the ride - with friends in/around the city no but on rural roads and solo, hell yes!


me too:thumbsup:


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## arai_speed (Aug 19, 2003)

On my way home the other day I decided to take a twisty canyon road with lots of blind corners, hills and traffic. I had my headphones on and was listening to some great tunes. As I approached a blind crested hill two cars passed me on the left hand side that I never heard coming, I guess they just "snook" up on me.

At that point I was really glad to have crested the hill as it was hot as @#[email protected]# that day and the descent was a welcomed releif from the heat. Man was I glad for that breeze.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

arai_speed said:


> On my way home the other day I decided to take a twisty canyon road with lots of blind corners, hills and traffic. I had my headphones on and was listening to some great tunes. As I approached a blind crested hill two cars passed me on the left hand side that I never heard coming, I guess they just "snook" up on me.
> 
> At that point I was really glad to have crested the hill as it was hot as @#[email protected]# that day and the descent was a welcomed releif from the heat. Man was I glad for that breeze.



I have had cars that "snook" up on me as well. Why just the other day I was climbing a hill with 22 blind corners. As I approached the last corner, some car "snook" up on me. The passenger chucked a tomato towards me. It missed, luckily. I surmised that if I was not wearing headphones, it would have missed me by even more as I would have had the ability to hear the tomato approaching me in the air and I could have bunny hopped it. In any case, I kept riding, but I could barely keep upright as I had trouble syncing my pedal strokes with the lunar gravity.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Tschai said:


> I have had cars that "snook" up on me as well. Why just the other day I was climbing a hill with 22 blind corners. As I approached the last corner, some car "snook" up on me. The passenger chucked a tomato towards me. It missed, luckily. I surmised that if I was not wearing headphones, it would have missed me by even more as I would have had the ability to hear the tomato approaching me in the air and I could have bunny hopped it. In any case, I kept riding, but I could barely keep upright as I had trouble syncing my pedal strokes with the lunar gravity.


This is as silly as it gets.


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## J9L (Sep 19, 2012)

Doea anyone play music through a cellphone speaker on a bike mount? On familiar, quieter roads ill do this sometimes but the volume is definitely low. I wouldn't dare put in ear buds though.


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## Rojoyinc (Sep 15, 2012)

I use a ipod and a external speaker. (velcro'd) to the ipod. Allows me to hear it quite loud. But without using ear buds I also hear fellow riders banter, as well as cars. I forget the name of the speaker, it was a gift from my son. It has a amp built in, you charge it on the USB port of the computer. IT's about the size of a donut hole. I think it's called Volcano? Runs for about 4 hours on a charge. Not only is is safe to liften to - as I can hear cars, but it also lets people know "I'm coming up from behind them" as I ride a lot of trails which are filled with slow riders and walkers, joggers etc. They turn to look who's coming and move to the side. No need to slow up and yell passing left to them. 
Yes did a seach on google, it's a Volcano. I recommend it highly.


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## wagg (Aug 11, 2012)

On solo rides absolutely, group rides no.


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