# Brakes with more clearance than Campy skeleton brakes



## Mr. Scary

Anybody find a brake that has more clearance, on my existing frame/fork I cannot fit a Vittoria 25mm tire (tire buzzes brake caliper in the brake arch)? Was curious if anybody had a similar experience and found a brake that offered more clearance.


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## bikerjulio

Kind of the opposite experience. I can run tires that are true 28mm with no problems. On several different road bikes. I always thought of Campy brakes as having lots of clearance.

I'm guessing it's the frame. Some of the older steel ones were designed for 20mm tires are are quite tight. More info and picture would help.


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## Mr. Scary

bikerjulio said:


> Kind of the opposite experience. I can run tires that are true 28mm with no problems. On several different road bikes. I always thought of Campy brakes as having lots of clearance.
> 
> I'm guessing it's the frame. Some of the older steel ones were designed for 20mm tires are are quite tight. More info and picture would help.


It's the position of the mounting hole on the carbon fork that is creating the issue and not the fault of the brakes per se as the rear end has plenty of clearance for the 25mm tire. But another company's brake arch may provide more clearance than the Campy brake which is why I was asking (ie TRP, etc).


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## framesti

You're talking about vertical clearance, for front wheel? (not horizontal clearance, rear wheel)




Mr. Scary said:


> Anybody find a brake that has more clearance, on my existing frame/fork I cannot fit a Vittoria 25mm tire (tire buzzes brake caliper in the brake arch)? Was curious if anybody had a similar experience and found a brake that offered more clearance.


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## Mr. Scary

framesti said:


> You're talking about vertical clearance, for front wheel? (not horizontal clearance, rear wheel)


Yes, vertical on front wheel. The Campy brake is rather flat as it crosses the top of the tire, if a different make has a sharper radius it would possibly give me a couple extra mils to run the tires I'd like to...


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## bikerjulio

That's a weird fork then. I've got a variety of bikes and never had that problem with a modern fork and Campy brakes. My '85 Merckx is tight in that area which led to my earlier comment. 

I went to look at a couple. Looks to me like the older, non-skeleton dual pivot front brake has several more mm of clearance. In fact on 3 bikes I checked with the older brakes, the internal arch of the brake was higher than the arch of the fork, meaning the fork would be the limiting issue.

So that might be the answer. Keep it Campy! They work just as well too.

I'd be checking clearance to the fork with no brake installed BTW. Something wacky going on there.


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## velodog

I'm thinking it's a fork issue.

Where are the pads in relation to the mounting slots in the calipers. I'm thinking that they are pretty near at the top of the adjustment. I'm running 25mm Vreds and have no clearance issue at all. The pads are mounted above the half way point of the adjustment and I think that 25 is as big as will fit. I just looked and I _might_ be able to fit 28s in there. but I wouldn't run out and buy a set yet. Chorus brakes

On another bike the pads are mounted about mid way down, maybe a bit less, and while I have 23 Vreds mounted on it, I wouldn't hesitate on trying a set of 28s on the bike. I think they would fit. Centaur

pics


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## DrSmile

It's not the brake. I run 32mm tires with Campy Centaur skeleton brakes. It works, but the tire will rub on the brake spring if the wheel goes significantly out of true. Get a new fork.


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## Mr. Scary

DrSmile said:


> It's not the brake. I run 32mm tires with Campy Centaur skeleton brakes. It works, but the tire will rub on the brake spring if the wheel goes significantly out of true. Get a new fork.


Fork matches the frame, I'm not replacing it. Can we all agree that not every brakeset has the exact same thickness from the center axis of the mounting bolt to the bottom of the caliper? if so, then I am looking for a brakeset with less than a Camapgnolo skeleton brake.


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## bikerjulio

Mr. Scary said:


> Fork matches the frame, I'm not replacing it. Can we all agree that not every brakeset has the exact same thickness from the center axis of the mounting bolt to the bottom of the caliper? if so, then I am looking for a brakeset with less than a Camapgnolo skeleton brake.


And I already told you of one.


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## DrSmile

Mr. Scary said:


> Fork matches the frame, I'm not replacing it. Can we all agree that not every brakeset has the exact same thickness from the center axis of the mounting bolt to the bottom of the caliper? if so, then I am looking for a brakeset with less than a Camapgnolo skeleton brake.


I have run the same exact tire on the same exact fork with a non-skeletonized Campy Centaur brake. The clearance is almost exactly the same. I would doubt that any non-long reach brake you get is going to significantly solve your issue. Certainly the TRP brakes I have as well as the Planet-X ones are no better. Long reach brakes suck for... braking, so I don't recommend that solution either. What brand fork is it? Maybe contact the manufacturer? There have been recalls because of improper brake mounting holes.


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## DrSmile

Idiot me forgot the solution that is probably the best... the raise your dropout method. This is usually done by cutting an old spoke for two pieces the length of the dropout width, and then epoxying these in place. You may have to adjust or remove the lawyer tabs on the dropout, and you'll have to check the dropout isn't so shallow that the axle can now slip out. I've done this on the front and rear of a bike (a road Breakaway to allow off-road tires) and it works perfectly.


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## bikerjulio

DrSmile said:


> I have run the same exact tire on the same exact fork with a non-skeletonized Campy Centaur brake. The clearance is almost exactly the same.


Wrong. 

Mounted on the same fork, and with the same front wheel with a 25mm tire, the non-skeleton brake has 8+mm of clearance to the top of the tire.

The skeleton brake has slightly less than 5mm.

Meaning there is at least 3mm MORE clearance with the older style brakes.


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## DrSmile

bikerjulio said:


> Wrong.
> 
> Mounted on the same fork, and with the same front wheel with a 25mm tire, the non-skeleton brake has 8+mm of clearance to the top of the tire.
> 
> The skeleton brake has slightly less than 5mm.
> 
> Meaning there is at least 3mm MORE clearance with the older style brakes.


Right!

I don't know what year brake that pic shows, but a more recent vintage (last 10 years) non-skeletonized Campy brake has essentially the same clearance. I can post pics to prove this but believe me it is true.


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## bikerjulio

That's from the last 10 years. Probably 2006. Just before they got skeletonized.

Admit it.


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## DrSmile

Apparently everything here has to be reduced to moron level...

I will post a pic when I get home. I hope you then shut your mouth.


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## bikerjulio

DrSmile said:


> Apparently everything here has to be reduced to moron level...
> 
> I will post a pic when I get home. I hope you then shut your mouth.


I took the trouble to double check my impression by mounting the two brake types on the same fork/tire combo, and taking some measurements and photographs. I'm not sure what you find so objectionable about that. Sometimes I'm wrong and will admit it when that happens.

Your post is borderline reportable by the way.


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## velodog

bikerjulio said:


> Wrong.
> 
> Mounted on the same fork, and with the same front wheel with a 25mm tire, the non-skeleton brake has 8+mm of clearance to the top of the tire.
> 
> The skeleton brake has slightly less than 5mm.
> 
> Meaning there is at least 3mm MORE clearance with the older style brakes.


Cable up that skeleton brake and there'll be more tire room. See pic in my earlier post.


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## bikerjulio

velodog said:


> Cable up that skeleton brake and there'll be more tire room. See pic in my earlier post.


Know what you mean. Closed it by hand, and there was still noticeably less clearance than the older brake.


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## DrSmile

Same fork, same rim, same tire (32mm Randonneur), both Centaur (non-skeletonized most modern version), both brakes with brake pads (approx the same wear) locked down on wheel to standardize:



















Measured the difference, it is approx 0.5mm.

Can we move along now?

EDIT- measured the pads and there is slightly more wear on the skeletonized brakes, so that places them closer to the tire towards the sides of the top treads. Without this difference there would be absolutely no difference in the distance.


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## bikerjulio

Curious. I did the same thing and still came up with at least 2mm difference.

We have the same brakes, I see. Looking at the skeleton brake, it looks like a small increase in brake pad clearance would put the arm closer to the tire, whereas the older one looks less likely to do that because of the different shape of it's arm. I run the pads fairly far off the rim.

Anyway I'm very happy to move along.


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## Wazgilbert

I have the same problem as the OP on a Merckx EMX-1 front fork. The drilling for the brake mounting hole appears to be aiming downhill if that makes sense, from the back of the fork to the front. Using my NOS veloce skeleton brakes, that makes the largest comfortable fit of tyre a 24mm Vittoria Open Pave. I was going to run continental gatorskin 25mm this winter. But found that the clearance was only 2mm and a stone picked up on newly resurfaced roads would jam up behind the brake mechanism causing concerns about damage. 
So much for thinking that the new 27mm paves would be comfy! I am keen on the dropout mod, but not so keen on the frame warranty side of things. I even avoided fitting the toothed washer at the brake-hole in case the carbon would be cracked. (paranoid much?)
Unless I change the fork (matches the frame) I won't be using this set-up outside summer I guess.


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## BigPoser

Mr. Scary said:


> Anybody find a brake that has more clearance, on my existing frame/fork I cannot fit a Vittoria 25mm tire (tire buzzes brake caliper in the brake arch)? Was curious if anybody had a similar experience and found a brake that offered more clearance.


I actually have the same problem on my Masi. I just converted to Chorus and fit my 25's on but I had to bring my pads closer to my rim in order to get enough clearance that my tire didn't rub. I had SRAM on prior, and didn't have any issues whatsoever. I also don't have any issues on my steel ride with the same tires, but Athena Skeleton brakes. 

No way I'll get anything other than Campy again though. It is just too good.


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## givethepigeye

Same issue as OP on a 2 year old Moots and Record brakes on the rear - 25mm Vitoria just barely fits at the arch - SRAM Red could take a 28.


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## Mr. Scary

For those that care the TRP 970 brakes offer up about 5mm more clearance than the Campy skeleton brakes did.


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