# clipless pedals vs. platform pedals



## g-dawg

Is there a huge difference in efficiency between the two?


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## cxwrench

yes.

the fact that probably 99.99% of the posters on this forum (not to mention the general cycling public) use them is probably a good indication


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## tom_h

Hard to quantify a number, but I would be surpised if you couldn't get at least another 15% power to the road, using clipless pedals.

Plus, the huge improvement in confidence and security, knowing your feet won't slip off the pedal. 

It feels very strange when I hop on any bike lacking clipless, as if I forgot to put my pants on ;-)

If I had a 2nd bike for short errands, eg a fixed gear or single speed, I would still put old-school toe clips and straps on it.


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## Camilo

I don't believe a "huge" difference in efficiency has ever been shown. I have no idea if there is any difference in efficiency. But I've used them for recreational riding for over 15 years and I think they're better because they keep your foot attache to the pedal - it doesn't get bumped or slip off. It also keeps your foot in the correct positon on the pedal. Whether this means more efficiency or just more comfort and security is moot. It is just better .... for me. I think it's perfectly reasonable for any rider to use platform pedals if they're more comfortable on them though.


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## fireplug

I think they do make a huge difference. When in a large climb I know there is no way I could make it up by simply pushing down on the pedals. Even on the flats I just feel like I have more power using clipless pedals. Might be all in my head but I would have a hard giving them up.

The only down side is the cost of the pedals and the shoes. But you still find decent set of pedals and shoes if you look around.


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## PJ352

g-dawg said:


> Is there a huge difference in efficiency between the two?


Define _huge_. 

But yes, IME there's little else you can do to increase efficiency more than going to clipless pedals. You gain a solid connection and even with moderately priced shoes, a firm (cf?) sole to all but alleviate flex. All in all better power transfer (relatively speaking) than any platform pedal and soft(er) soled shoes can provide.

And I know this is true, because my bike computer says so.


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## peterk

I come from a mtb background and have used platforms and clipless. clipless keeps you on the bike and you have to concentrate less about about foot placement. Clipless also gives you a bit better power on the pedal stroke for sure. 

Although I prefer clipless, I do use platforms for downhilling and the occassional through the woods ride in an effort to make sure my form is going to hell from riding clipless. Good platforms with a tacky shoe like five.tens are pretty good. My wife is afraid to go clipless, so I run big platforms with pegs on her bike. She sticks to the pedal like glue. 

With all that said, clipless all the way for road.


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## jsedlak

I was just riding a bike with platform pedals yesterday...my feet kept coming off the pedals and sliding around.

If not clipless, at least get some toe straps to keep your foot planted.


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## muscleendurance

tom_h said:


> Hard to quantify a number, but I would be surpised if you couldn't get at least another 15% power to the road, using clipless pedals.
> 
> Plus, the huge improvement in confidence and security, knowing your feet won't slip off the pedal.
> 
> It feels very strange when I hop on any bike lacking clipless, as if I forgot to put my pants on ;-)
> 
> If I had a 2nd bike for short errands, eg a fixed gear or single speed, I would still put old-school toe clips and straps on it.


more like 30% and even more if trying to sprint out of saddle near impossible with non-clipless, in terms of acceleration.


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## wim

*Worldwide?*



cxwrench said:


> yes.
> 
> the fact that probably 99.99% of the posters on this forum (not to mention the general cycling public) use them is probably a good indication


Probably correct on the RBR posters, but definitely not on the general cycling public. In the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany for example, 99% of the cycling public are *not* clipped into anything.


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## PJ352

wim said:


> Probably correct on the RBR posters, but definitely not on the general cycling public. In the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany for example, 99% of the cycling public are *not* clipped into anything.


Yeah, but they're not _cyclists_, they're _commuters_.


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## wim

PJ352 said:


> Yeah, but they're not _cyclists_, they're _commuters_.


LOL, oh yeah, forgot. Lowlife, noodling to work and back at slow speeds. What could they possibly know—they've just been riding bikes all their lives without thinking much about it . . .


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## jmlapoint

Yes, absolutely.
Clipless keeps your foot positioned and secure, and for the FG rider allows you to push and pull which is extremely important.


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## wim

jmlapoint said:


> Yes, absolutely.
> Clipless keeps your foot positioned and secure, and for the FG rider allows you to push and pull which is extremely important.


What's an "FG" rider?


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## TomH

.. its a small difference. lets be realistic. but on a roadbike, theres really no downside at all, so you might as well get the advantage.

you can probably spin, efficiently, 75% of a circle with sticky platforms and decent shoes.. you can 100% spin a circle with clipless pedals so you get that extra bit right there.. 

another big thing is the stiff soles of real cycling shoes.. that probably has more advantages than getting that extra 25% of the circle in. all in all, just go for it. you'll love it and wonder why you didnt jump onboard sooner!


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## jmlapoint

wim said:


> What's an "FG" rider?


FG = Fixed Gear.
Sorry.


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## wim

jmlapoint said:


> FG = Fixed Gear.
> Sorry.


Thanks. Funny, in another context I would've recognized it. But my mind was locked on the "elite track sprinters" from my earlier post and I couldn't connect "FG" with these guys—even though "FG" is what all of them ride on the track.


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## g-dawg

Thanks for the help guys. This forum has helped me a great deal. I recently tried out a few bikes,and they all come with horrible pedals on them. Is there a good shoe that you can walk in? I like riding in Letchworth State Park, and there are a lot places to get off the bike just to look at the beautiful scenery.


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## Mapei

Though they'll never quite match the mile-after-mile comfort and efficiency of a good road clipless pedal/shoe combo, a mountain bike clipless combo will still give you a giant leap in efficiency as compared to just pushing down a platform pedal. And you'll be able to walk around pretty decently, too. Go for it.

As far as I'm concerned, the difference in efficiency between a pedal you attach your foot to and one you just stamp on is absolutely night and day. It's not just a couple of cogs worth of difference, it's an entire chainring's worth of difference.


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## g-dawg

Thanks again for the quick reply.


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## Camilo

A friend forgot his cycling shoes for a ride a few days ago. With borrowed sneakers (he was wearing flip flops) and his Look pedals, he rode with the same folks he always tends to fall in with, and while he said he didn't enjoy it as much as normally, he still kept up with the group and finished with them after about an almost 2 hour ride.

Folks, this is not a 30 % difference. I really doubt its even a 10 or 15% difference. It's a marginal difference. I don't dispute clipless pedals have advantages, and I really, really prefer to ride with them, but it's not a night and day difference. It would certainly be meaningful in a race among equally strong riders. But I doubt if it would make the difference in a "fun" type group ride for anyone but those who struggle just to hang on. The marginal difference would cause them to fall off the back. But mid-front packers would still be in the group, maybe a little bit further back in the group, maybe a little tireder at the end.


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## muscleendurance

Nothing ACCELERATES faster than a clipless pedal (nothing meaning normal non-toe clipped pedals) end of!


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## FireRunner

Forget slipping! Clipless allows you to use your full leg muscles (quads, hams, calves). With platforms all you can do is push down (quads), you get no help or use from your hams. Cycling should have your legs doing a circle motion, you can't do that if you're not able to "pull up".


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## Opus51569

Just out of curiosity, do people who ride platform pedals do a lot of riding in the rain...with cowboy boots on? 

I ask, because one of the arguments that I find repeatedly advocating clipless pedals is that feet tend to slip off platforms. That's a blanket statement that doesn't take into account the type of platform pedal or the shoe. I use Odyssey Triple Trap pedals on my road bike. No toe clips and no straps. I wear Teva sandals or Nikes in the winter. I can ride comfortably all day. I can get off the bike and walk comfortably, too. And my feet don't slip off the pedals on uphills, downhills or even in the rain.

I think the "feet slip off of platform pedals" argument may be true for the hardcore riders/racers who are spinning like mad, but for the rest (majority) of riders, the argument has become has become a kind of generic, reflex response, one of those "that's what they say" kinds of things.

Granted, the clipless pedals are more mechanically efficient, but don't disregard platform pedals because your feet will necessarily slip off.

I'm writing this as I wait for my new set of Sharkbites to arrive, contemplating having a T-shirt made that reads "Free the Feet" with a picture of an old man on an older Schwinn coasting down a hill with his feet sticking straight out...


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## zac

Platforms have their purpose, yes, but that wasn't the OP's question.

Go back and reread it: "Is there a huge difference in efficiency between the two?"

As stated in the second post, there is only one answer to that question: "Yes."


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## Opus51569

zac said:


> Platforms have their purpose, yes, but that wasn't the OP's question.
> 
> Go back and reread it: "Is there a huge difference in efficiency between the two?"
> 
> As stated in the second post, there is only one answer to that question: "Yes."


Thanks Zac for that stellar, if snarky, recap. It never occurred to me to actually read the original post (or any of the subsequent posts) before responding. 

My previous post was in regards to peterk, jsedlak and other who mentioned feet slipping on platforms.

Since I know you too have read all the posts, I am confused how you can say that the question was answered in the second post. Is there a difference in efficiency? Yes. Is there a huge difference? Not necessarily.


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## -Matt82-

Not sure he was replying specifically to you. Press reply and it just puts the new stuff at hte bottom, doesn't it?


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## Opus51569

-Matt82- said:


> Not sure he was replying specifically to you. Press reply and it just puts the new stuff at hte bottom, doesn't it?


It's possible. Without a name or a pronoun in "Go back and reread..." it was an assumption on my part.


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## old_fuji

i thought clipless were only more efficient if you consciously made an effort to power your entire pedal stroke...pushing and pulling, on the downstroke and upstroke. i've always been under the impression that just piddling around, clipless wouldn't make a huge difference.


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## rcnute

I can pedal just as fast in platforms.


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## MarshallH1987

Clipless is way better in basically all situations for performance. Usually I don't pull up on the pedal unless i'm sprinting since it doesn't seem to be very efficient to pull, but usually i try to ride like i'm scraping poop off my shoe. Once you get your cleat placement it's there forever and you don't have to worry about it. Platforms you slide around and have to find that spot each time you put your foot the the pedal. I always feel like i have more control over the bike since it is attached to me and has to move where i want it. I was messing around on an old mountain bike last week with the big platform downhill pedals on it and my foot slipped, pedal swung around and took some skin off my shin


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## spade2you

rcnute said:


> I can pedal just as fast in platforms.


Sure, but not nearly the amount of power.


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## Doolab

In my experience on road bikes, clipless road pedals are a marked improvement over platform pedals in the following manner:

- Platform pedals: These are good for casual or easy going rides. But the going gets serious, I had to think about finding the right spot to place the pedal under my foot for optimal pedalling. My foot also would sometimes slip off and I'd smack my achilles tendon = @#$%! painful moments!

- SPD cleats/Shimano MT shoes combo: worked well and sprinting was more fun. The downside with this combo was that I was getting numb spots on my feet right where the cleats were probably due to the small pedal to foot contact on that mtb spd system.

- I now ride on Look KEO Sprints/ LG road shoes combo: With this combo, I can ride as long as I want in comfort with none of the numbness I experienced before. My average speed on the same rides I take is also higher probably due to experiencing less fatigue in my feet and/or leg muscles.

I'd call that gaining efficiency with the road clipless pedals over platform and even the mtb spd ones...


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## spade2you

One basic thing about platforms is that you're generally using some form of tennis shoe. Notice how flexible the sole is. Without factoring in the strength you gain from the upstroke, the shoe flex will absorb some of your efforts right there. The flex will also cause uneven pressure on your feet, which only leads to discomfort. This may sound strange, but the stiffness of the road shoes is what makes them comfortable. 

Road cleats are big, ugly, bulky, and hard to walk on. The trade-off is that you can really dial them in to maximize power and comfort. When done correctly, this will always put your foot in the right spot. There's so much variation in platforms that you'll most certainly be all over the place.


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## Ventruck

old_fuji said:


> i thought clipless were only more efficient if you consciously made an effort to power your entire pedal stroke...pushing and pulling, on the downstroke and upstroke. i've always been under the impression that just piddling around, clipless wouldn't make a huge difference.




With refined form, the circular motion of a cyclist's pedalling would result in subconscious pulling. 

When sprinting, you can't really go all-out on platforms as they can't follow your feet full-circle. One could argue that the sprinting form is too messy, but I mean, there's still quite the improvment, and being stuck to the pedals encourages better leg form.


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## Mapei

spade2you said:


> One basic thing about platforms is that you're generally using some form of tennis shoe. Notice how flexible the sole is. Without factoring in the strength you gain from the upstroke, the shoe flex will absorb some of your efforts right there. The flex will also cause uneven pressure on your feet, which only leads to discomfort. This may sound strange, but the stiffness of the road shoes is what makes them comfortable.


spade2you brings up a good point. One of the most enjoyable things about the stiff-shoe-attached-to-the-pedal system is that your feet suddenly don't have to do nearly the work they used to. Your feet become part of the pedal. They're supported, a lot like they're supported in downhill ski boots. You push or pull with your butt, your legs and your ankles. Your feet, which are pretty weak in comparison to those other body parts, can just hang out and relax.


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## newmexrb1

Whats interesting IMHO is that there is little if any sport physiology science that documents any benefit in power using either toe clips or a clipless system but so many adamantly insist they do. Those advocates might consider looking over the supplied link which appears to be well researched. http://adt.ecu.edu.au/adt-public/adt-ECU2008.0017/02Thesis_BurnsJ.pdf


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## PJ352

newmexrb1 said:


> Whats interesting IMHO is that there is little if any sport physiology science that documents any benefit in power using either toe clips or a clipless system but so many adamantly insist they do. Those advocates might consider looking over the supplied link which appears to be well researched. http://adt.ecu.edu.au/adt-public/adt-ECU2008.0017/02Thesis_BurnsJ.pdf


There's this loop that I ride, been riding it for about 6 years now. Weather permitting, I ride every day, so minus winter months I estimate I've ridden it about 175 times a season. For 6 years that's over 1,000 rides along the route. 

When I started doing so I was using clips and straps (essentially platforms, IMO) and my average speed was around 18.3 MPH. Now, you may say that averages don't tell much, but when you basically calculate an average of averages, they do, simply because they show consistency (same route) under all riding conditions.

So, after a period of about 2 years I decided to go the clipless route (not the first time, but I reverted back for a period of time - reasons irrelevant to this 'argument'.) After going to a clipless pedal system, my average speed (same deal, average of averages taken over literally hundreds of rides) went from 18.3 to the mid 19's. That comes out to a performance gain of just under 7%. Oh, and I should add that I'm in my 50's and have been road riding for about 25 years, so any performance gain couldn't be attributed to improved fitness.  

Now, I see how much you admire research, so seeing as I _just rode _you probably won't be swayed by my stats, but fact is for most any topic you research I can find an opposing argument somewhere, so I tend to find out for myself and base my opinions on my own experiences. You might consider doing the same.


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## newmexrb1

I have rode both, but the physiology just doesn't support the argument for improved efficiency--at least among experienced cyclists, which is what I thought the OP was asking. What they can do is help to teach a better stroke by reducing the resistance of the upcoming side. You likely experienced that as did I. Now however I am not sure that it would make a difference. You might try to revert and see if you don't retain the benefits. See the problem is that the gastrocs and hams just can't get out of the way fast enough to truly add power to the stroke even if it feels that way. But sorry, didn't mean to step on anybody toes. I keep an open mind and base conclusions wherever possoble to careful and methodical research.


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## PJ352

newmexrb1 said:


> I have rode both, but the physiology just doesn't support the argument for improved efficiency--at least among experienced cyclists, which is what I thought the OP was asking. What they can do is help to teach a better stroke by reducing the resistance of the upcoming side. You likely experienced that as did I. Now however I am not sure that it would make a difference. You might try to revert and see if you don't retain the benefits. See the problem is that the gastrocs and hams just can't get out of the way fast enough to truly add power to the stroke even if it feels that way. But sorry, didn't mean to step on anybody toes. I keep an open mind and base conclusions wherever possoble to careful and methodical research.


If I revert back I have every confidence that my speed would decrease as well. When I did use that system I could feel my soles flex on the downstroke, which I'm sure was the main contributor to the inefficiencies. 

I read through your attachment and caught the part about pedaling in circles (pulling up) and agree with their finding. At least it holds true IME. 

No apologies necessary. You're entitled to offer a side of an 'argument' (it is a forum, after all) and I was doing the same in responding. Oh, if you're residing in NM, I'm jealous - love it! :thumbsup:


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## newmexrb1

No problem and yes I'm in NM. I'll tell you what really hurts efficiency: 30 pounds overweight, chainsmoking, and not having ridden at all for 8 years. Just started riding 3 days ago: I can barely get up this lame hill on the way home w/o puking, my legs burn all the time, and I'm gasping for breath. Thats what hurts--I was never an accomplished rider, but could ride 30 and 40 miles effortlessly and get up some of the canyons outside Salt Lake City. Now I'm just a fat clyde--if that's the term.


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## M-theory

The literature that was cited above was not an independent and reliable study, but seemed more like a patent for 'power cranks' . As such, the introduction merely justifies the revolutionary aspect of 'power cranks' by dismissing clipless pedals by way of reference to an earlier study. Of course, there may be other studies which indeed do show the benefits of the clipless system...but those studies would not be cited since they do not fit the agenda of introducing 'power cranks'.


Of course clipless pedals offer a tremendous increase in the available muscle power that can be brought to bear upon the pedals. In climbing hills, I know from experience, i can almost entirely relax my quads and climb with my hamstrings pulling up. 

To assert that the upstroke is merely 'getting out of the way' of the downstroke is simply untrue. One can apply tremendous force on the upstroke while allowing the quads to relax and recoup.

Incidentally, an increase in speed of 5mph represents a doubling of power output. Therefore, if one's speed improves from mid 18's to mid 19's, (a 1 mph increase) the power output required for such a feat is actually a bit more than 20%. So that seemingly small increase in speed represents a much more substantial increase in power output ( greater than 20%). 

Thats the the upstroke power coming in to play.


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## newmexrb1

I'm all for being open minded but do you have any citations--brand new here and no wish to make enemies, just hoping to find some truth as none of the studies cited seemed to find an advantage. Now it may be that on a fixed dynamometer some real life advantages like hill climbing just aren't revealed. Just think figures that cite 15 to 30% like the numbers being thrown around for flats seems optimistic. 

I gave up on clipless after developing ITBS, but that may have been pure coincidence. As you can tell ftrom my last post, I need all the help I can get right about now....


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## PJ352

M-theory said:


> The literature that was cited above was not an independent and reliable study, but seemed more like a patent for 'power cranks' . As such, the introduction merely justifies the revolutionary aspect of 'power cranks' by dismissing clipless pedals by way of reference to an earlier study. Of course, there may be other studies which indeed do show the benefits of the clipless system...but those studies would not be cited since they do not fit the agenda of introducing 'power cranks'.
> 
> 
> Of course clipless pedals offer a tremendous increase in the available muscle power that can be brought to bear upon the pedals. In climbing hills, I know from experience, i can almost entirely relax my quads and climb with my hamstrings pulling up.
> 
> To assert that the upstroke is merely 'getting out of the way' of the downstroke is simply untrue. One can apply tremendous force on the upstroke while allowing the quads to relax and recoup.
> 
> Incidentally, an increase in speed of 5mph represents a doubling of power output. Therefore, if one's speed improves from mid 18's to mid 19's, (a 1 mph increase) the power output required for such a feat is actually a bit more than 20%. So that seemingly small increase in speed represents a much more substantial increase in power output ( greater than 20%).
> 
> Thats the the upstroke power coming in to play.


Ironically, I'm finding myself on the other side of this 'argument', but a couple of things need clarification.

While the spinning in circles method may work for you, it's never worked for me. Also, I don't know what cadence you maintain, but when I spin at 90+, _there is no recoup time _for my quads. Trust me on this one.

And yes, of course you're correct that my 7% performance increase was speed related _only_, but (relating to my first paragraph) there was no upstroke power coming into play. I know, I was there.  IMO I was merely reaping the benefits of increased pedaling efficiency.


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## M-theory

Well, I suppose my earlier comment was a bit overzealously based upon personal experience. 

I haven't been able to find a study showing any power advantages to clipless. I must say, that's a bit surprising. The only seeming well documented research indicates that pulling up on the backstroke is actually inefficient and will excessively raise VO2...essentially lowering power output for a given aerobic effort.

I stand corrected. 


But from personal experience when climbing long steep hills, the aerobic efficiency aspect to all of this is perhaps less of an issue than the lactic acid buildup in the legs. Although i generally prefer a higher cadence , its drops below 90rpm out of necessity when climbing and i can make a conscious effort to specifically target the upstroke in order not to overtax the quads.


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## real stonie

peterk said:


> I come from a mtb background and have used platforms and clipless. clipless keeps you on the bike and you have to concentrate less about about foot placement. Clipless also gives you a bit better power on the pedal stroke for sure.
> 
> Although I prefer clipless, I do use platforms for downhilling and the occassional through the woods ride in an effort to make sure my form is going to hell from riding clipless. Good platforms with a tacky shoe like five.tens are pretty good. My wife is afraid to go clipless, so I run big platforms with pegs on her bike. She sticks to the pedal like glue.
> 
> With all that said, clipless all the way for road.


What kind of pedals does your wife have? My wife's in the same boat and I need to find some new pedals for her.


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## PJ352

Another clarification.. don't misunderstand, I'm confident that clipless offer performance advantages. The only evidence I need are my experiences, and I've already posted the results. Well, that and the fact that the pros use them, so they _must_ be good!  

Point taken re: hills and cadence. I seldom maintain a cadence of 90 at the top, and sometimes beforehand.


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## wgscott

Sorry for the necro-post. An (unrelated) ankle break has forced me back to platforms + 5-10s after 25 years of clipless. Although I am still getting used to it, I am pleasantly surprised how good these sticky-soled shoes + spiky pedals can be. I used to sneer at people (like my wife) who refused to use clipless pedals. Not so much now.


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## cxwrench

Those shoes are CRAZY sticky, especially w/ good DH pedals. Pretty amazing.


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## wgscott

newmexrb1 said:


> Whats interesting IMHO is that there is little if any sport physiology science that documents any benefit in power using either toe clips or a clipless system but so many adamantly insist they do. Those advocates might consider looking over the supplied link which appears to be well researched. http://adt.ecu.edu.au/adt-public/adt-ECU2008.0017/02Thesis_BurnsJ.pdf


That link has expired, but this one works:

http://www.powercranks.com/assets/pdfs/02Thesis_BurnsJ.pdf

About once a year something goes wrong (eg: chain slips off) and I fall off the bike. I never got hurt, but now it scares me a lot more. (Psychologically, I still find getting on and off the bike the hardest thing post-ankle-break.)

What would interest me is a study on the relative frequency of injuries for platform vs. cleat (clipless). I've googled some pretty nasty ankle breaks from clipless, but keeping your feet attached to the bike when you crash might actually have a protective value as well.


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## Social Climber

Mapei said:


> Though they'll never quite match the mile-after-mile comfort and efficiency of a good road clipless pedal/shoe combo, a mountain bike clipless combo will still give you a giant leap in efficiency as compared to just pushing down a platform pedal. And you'll be able to walk around pretty decently, too. Go for it.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, the difference in efficiency between a pedal you attach your foot to and one you just stamp on is absolutely night and day. It's not just a couple of cogs worth of difference, it's an entire chainring's worth of difference.


Lots of roadies (myself included) use MTB shoes and pedals because you can walk in them. 

And I agree clipless is a big improvement over flat pedals.


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## Pedro S

Social Climber said:


> Lots of roadies (myself included) use MTB shoes and pedals because you can walk in them.
> 
> And I agree clipless is a big improvement over flat pedals.


Yep, SPD's for me. Aside from the advantage of clipless over platform documented in this thread, I can walk in them vs. road clipless and I don't need to worry about grabbing the correct shoes for the bike I'm riding. Same shoes for road bike and MTB.


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## skitorski

I refuse to call anything that so obviously goes KLICK when you clip into it clipless. It is a convention but it's retarded.


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## slow.climber

There's not much research on this.

Lot's of opinions, very little data.

The one paper I did read said that elite cyclists could generate ~5% more power but at the cost of lower efficiency.

The increase in power required adopting a specific set of leg motions, some thing that most cyclists found difficult to do for extended rides.

One theory for why this happes is that humans legs are adapted to push down not pull up. You can increase your ability to pull up but the biomechanics don't favor this.


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## Mapei

slow.climber said:


> There's not much research on this.
> 
> Lot's of opinions, very little data.
> 
> The one paper I did read said that elite cyclists could generate ~5% more power but at the cost of lower efficiency.
> 
> The increase in power required adopting a specific set of leg motions, some thing that most cyclists found difficult to do for extended rides.
> 
> One theory for why this happes is that humans legs are adapted to push down not pull up. You can increase your ability to pull up but the biomechanics don't favor this.


Not to belabor the thread, but the advantage I (personally!) find from pedals to which I am firmly attached is that I am indeed attached to them. This allows me to push down as hard as I damn please without worrying that my foot might slip off. It allows my upward-moving leg & foot to completely relax so that they won't find themselves off the pedal or shifted in position.  My feet stay attached and properly situated when the road surface gets rough, and when I'm aching with tiredness and fatigue.

It must also be said that, though statistics and research are important and worthwhile, ultimately it is you who must decide which way to go. Just because there is a bell curve, it doesn't mean that you, as an individual, reside in the middle of it.


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## SpeedNeeder

Please belabor the point! After reading 3 pages of this thread started 4 years ago, I still don't know what to think. 
I am in for injury rates!
I went over my handle bars once on my MTB and was able to land on my hands and knees without injury. I escaped injury free. If my feet were atached to the pedals, I can only imagine that would have resulted in a face plant!


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## PJ352

SpeedNeeder said:


> Please belabor the point! After reading 3 pages of this thread started 4 years ago, I still don't know what to think.
> I am in for injury rates!
> I went over my handle bars once on my MTB and was able to land on my hands and knees without injury. I escaped injury free. If my feet were atached to the pedals, I can only imagine that would have resulted in a face plant!


IME, your scenario doesn't hold to be true. In 30 years of road riding, I fell twice and crashed once. All three times, my cleats unclipped without any help (or conscious effort) on my part.

Reading your comments in the other thread and here, I'd say you're overly concerned about going clipless, in which case, you should probably wait on it awhile. 

As was stated elsewhere, your performance won't improve as much as clipless will help you smooth your pedal stroke. Still a worthwhile perk, but it's not like if you hold off you'll be holding yourself back.


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## SpeedNeeder

You make a good point. I have been riding MTB for 6 months and road bike for 2 weeks. 
It's easy for me to imagine clipless increasing hazards while on the trail - I put a foot out at least once most times I ride. The same may not be true for road biking. 
In case someone can't imagine the increased hazard on MTB, it took me about 10 seconds to find this on YouTube. Do you think clipless contributed to this guy's face hitting the dirt?
Painful MTB Faceplant! - YouTube
Maybe?


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## wim

SpeedNeeder said:


> Do you think clipless contributed to this guy's face hitting the dirt?


Can't speak for PJ352, but I certainly don't. The assumption that not being attached to his pedals would have enabled the rider to avoid this crash simply doesn't hold water.


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## SpeedNeeder

I respect your opinion. 
To me, it looks like he can't get his right foot off the pedal to stabilize himself just before the crash? Pretty sure he was trying to! He certainly may have crashed anyway, for sure, but I doubt his face would have hit the dirt if he could have gotten his right foot out in time.
It's hard to predict a divergent reality when we are in this one! Heck, if he were still riding flats, that video may never have been taken!
I can definitely buy into better power transfer with clipless. The impact of squishy vs rigid connection to the pedals supports this in my engineering brain. More so, I KNOW I put downward force on the upstroke just make sure my foot stays put. Maybe a better way to say this is I don't get my foot completely out of the way during the up stroke in order to keep it planted firmly on the pedal. I have tried to minimize this in practice, but I usually end up with my foot getting out of position on the pedal doing it!
Regarding the foot slipping off the pedal and getting hurt comments, I have had my foot slip before, though this has never resulted in a shin injury - I cannot imagine how this could result in a shin injury??
I am not a betting man, but I would bet that I will try clipless one day. Just not drinking the 'everything is better' cool aid yet, not yet, maybe one day, but not yet 
I appreciate everyone's comments and experiences shared here. 
Thank you.


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## wim

SpeedNeeder said:


> To me, it looks like he can't get his right foot off the pedal to stabilize himself just before the crash?


Well, that's the thing though: you're thinking that you can "stablize" yourself by putting your foot on the ground and avoid a crash. That may work at slow speeds on the trail or in long, sweeping turns on the road. But at the speed the guy in the clip was going and on the terrain he was on, sticking a foot on the ground wouldn't have helped at all. Also consider that at 00:10, his right foot is already unclipped, and both feet are off the pedals before the end of the crash.

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but the instant you take your feet off the pedals, you relinquish a significant amount of control. Try this (carefully!): ride your bike in the middle of a deserted road or parking lot. Take both feet off the pedals and hold them away from the cranks. Now gently try to make a couple of S-turns. You'll note immediately that the bike has become difficult to handle—so much so, that it can quickly become completely unpredictable. So in situations in which control is important, the last thing you want is to have your feet off the pedals.

Lastly, the shins. Just one possible scenario: Your foot slips off the pedal, then the pedal comes up to top dead center and remains there. If your dangling leg winds up _behind_ that pedal at top dead center, there's a real good chance you'll bark your shin on that pedal.


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## TheMaz14

Especially with MTB, and on dirt, not rocks( which I recommend you start out on dirt instead of rocky...) anyways, when you crash, or when I crash, the shoes are automatically released when you hit the ground. Like most people say, I couldn't go back to platform. While in Europe, I decided to take some family member's bikes for a ride. They had platform. It was like trying to learn how to ride a bike again. 


Before you take them for a ride, I recommend setting the bike up on the trainer, and practice clipping in and clipping out. That'll give you a better idea on how to use them.


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## ROACHCLASS

Thinking on going clip less..

I plan to go to LBS and try some shoes on. Any certain brands I should look more into and ones to stay away from? I just want basic nothing extreme as I'm just a casual road rider.

Also, what price would I be looking at for shoes+pedals?


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## DasBoost

ROACHCLASS said:


> Thinking on going clip less..
> 
> I plan to go to LBS and try some shoes on. Any certain brands I should look more into and ones to stay away from? I just want basic nothing extreme as I'm just a casual road rider.
> 
> Also, what price would I be looking at for shoes+pedals?


Do you plan on walking in the shoes, like running errands, or just riding with them? MTB shoes with the 2-bolt SPD work well if you plan on walking a lot in them or running errands while riding. Pearl Izumi All Road IIs and SPD cleats were what I used, but I went to a road shoe that doesn't allow for too much walking (slick sole and a small rubber heel pad and the rubber pads on cleats are all that you've got) with a 3-bolt SPD-SL cleat. Best bet is to figure out how much time you plan to be off of the bike during the ride and try various brands to get a feel for what fits best.


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## HyperCycle

I just installed some platform pedals on my Trek 1.1. I didn't like the stock toe-strap pedals after riding with them for 5 months. At this point in time I have no desire to go to clipless. To each his/her own.


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## czuber

Once you get over the fear of trying clipless pedals you will be amazed. All it takes it that first hill you climb to really feel the difference they make.


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## wgscott

wgscott said:


> Sorry for the necro-post. An (unrelated) ankle break has forced me back to platforms + 5-10s after 25 years of clipless. Although I am still getting used to it, I am pleasantly surprised how good these sticky-soled shoes + spiky pedals can be. I used to sneer at people (like my wife) who refused to use clipless pedals. Not so much now.


Just recently I went back to SPDs. My subjective sense is they are more efficient, but not necessarily for the reasons claimed (at least for me, personally).

The two main advantages for me are:

(1) Enforcing proper positioning on the pedals. This isn't a big deal for me, since I had about a quarter of a century riding cleated in to learn me this.

(2) Standing on the bike. This makes a huge difference, both psychologically and physically. I had a lot of trouble recovering this skill after breaking my ankle, but the SPDs really help with the efficiency and the fear of coming off the pedals while standing.

Overall I find the platforms with 5/10s more comfortable, especially road-biking on trails.

Anyone know where I can buy these?


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## erknjerk

I'm a beginner. My first ride was 5 miles in 2 hours with platforms. My second was 8 miles in 1.5 hours with mtb clip ins.


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