# Madone 5.9 v 2300



## jbrumm (Aug 8, 2004)

What frame is stiffer a Trek Madone 5.9 or a 2300? Which one is better for sprinting?


----------



## shokhead1 (Jan 21, 2003)

jbrumm said:


> What frame is stiffer a Trek Madone 5.9 or a 2300? Which one is better for sprinting?


The one that has the strongest rider.


----------



## jbrumm (Aug 8, 2004)

shokhead1 said:


> The one that has the strongest rider.


Wow, what a profound response. Did you get help putting that together?

The question is whether a Trek Madone 5.9 or 2300 is stiffer assuming the same rider. That rider being me, and I am very strong thankyou. I am also curious which frame is considered to be stiffer.

Does anyone know?


----------



## shokhead1 (Jan 21, 2003)

Who cares,the 5.9 is nicer so get it. Have you tested either one?


----------



## blehargh (Mar 17, 2004)

jbrumm said:


> Wow, what a profound response. Did you get help putting that together?
> 
> The question is whether a Trek Madone 5.9 or 2300 is stiffer assuming the same rider. That rider being me, and I am very strong thankyou. I am also curious which frame is considered to be stiffer.
> 
> Does anyone know?


I agree with shokhead. it won't really matter which one you get. they will both be stiff enough for your purposes.

while that answer might not satisfy you.... the 5.9 will be the better climber because it will weigh on the order of 2-3 lbs less than the 2300.

GL.
-don


----------



## jbrumm (Aug 8, 2004)

*Thanks for the reply*



blehargh said:


> I agree with shokhead. it won't really matter which one you get. they will both be stiff enough for your purposes.
> 
> while that answer might not satisfy you.... the 5.9 will be the better climber because it will weigh on the order of 2-3 lbs less than the 2300.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the replys fellas, I really do. (Here's the but) But, they don't answer my question. I'm not asking because I'm making a buy decision, and yes I have ridden both of them. It's not a matter of what's stiff enough. It's more of an intellectual curiosity thing.

I simply want to know what the conventional wisdom is for frame stiffness between the carbon fiber madone and the aluminum 2300. I have my own opinion, and I'd like to hear what others know about the subject.

I figured this would be a good place to find such information. It seems from past posts that there are some members who are pretty savy along these lines.

BTW, how do you know what my purposes are?


----------



## blehargh (Mar 17, 2004)

jbrumm said:


> BTW, how do you know what my purposes are?


I don't know what your purposes are. but if it involves just riding the bike, then i'm pretty sure either will be just fine.

here's a couple questions to think about about stiffness in the meantime...

1) what is stiffness?
2) how would you measure stiffness? of a material? of a tube? of a frame?
3) if you could measure stiffness of a frame, how would that changed based on the components you select? also assuming you could measure "stiffness" of components.
4) even if you could do all that, would it make a difference? 

you might be able to do up to #2. 3 is going to be pretty hard to come up with an answer for. while you're sprinting is it the chainstays that are holding you back? or maybe it your stem that's flexing? a very hard question to answer #3 is.

it's my opinion that it doesn't make a difference. i'm guessing that it's your opinion that is does. but honestly, i think we'd both have a hard time proving - scientifically anyways - either of our points. 

GL,
-don


----------



## blehargh (Mar 17, 2004)

jbrumm said:


> I simply want to know what the conventional wisdom is for frame stiffness between the carbon fiber madone and the aluminum 2300. I have my own opinion, and I'd like to hear what others know about the subject.


incidentally, the CW is that the 2300 would be stiffer... but i sorta use that term loosely, since you still sorta need to define what stiffness is...

GL,
-don


----------



## jakerson (Jun 15, 2004)

blehargh said:


> you still sorta need to define what stiffness is...


This guy knows how to define stiffness...










(couldnt resist)


----------



## jbrumm (Aug 8, 2004)

jakerson said:


> This guy knows how to define stiffness...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not going to ride that guy. I'm just not going to do it. I don't care how stiff he is.


----------



## 3465mike (Dec 7, 2004)

*well.....*



jbrumm said:


> I appreciate the replys fellas, I really do. (Here's the but) But, they don't answer my question. I'm not asking because I'm making a buy decision, and yes I have ridden both of them. It's not a matter of what's stiff enough. It's more of an intellectual curiosity thing.
> 
> I simply want to know what the conventional wisdom is for frame stiffness between the carbon fiber madone and the aluminum 2300. I have my own opinion, and I'd like to hear what others know about the subject.
> 
> ...


I currently have a 5.9, and rode the 2300 before I had the 5.9.......the difference? The 5.9 is lighter and feels like a better accelerator...stiffer? like I said it seems to accelerate better....ride quality wise, much less harsh over bumps then the aluminum bike.....


----------



## jbrumm (Aug 8, 2004)

3465mike said:


> I currently have a 5.9, and rode the 2300 before I had the 5.9.......the difference? The 5.9 is lighter and feels like a better accelerator...stiffer? like I said it seems to accelerate better....ride quality wise, much less harsh over bumps then the aluminum bike.....


Thanks for the reply, finally someone qualified respond to my inquiry. I own both bikes. I prefer the Madone overall, but I can't say why. I can't put a finger on it as I really like the 2300. I bought the 2300 this Fall to be my winter backup for the Madone, but I ended up liking it so much that I decided to ride a 12 year old beater this winter. I have just recently upgraded the 2300 to ultegra 10 spd, but because the roads are so nasty on the East coast I haven't compared the 10spd equipped 2300 with the 10 spd equipped Madone. While still outfitted with Utlegra 9 spd, The 2300 seemed to have a smoother drive train than the Madone. The 2300 seemed more solid when pedaling in the saddle. The Madone did seem to jump out more quickly when out-of-the-saddle sprinting as you mentioned. 

I know which bike I would compete on for a hilly race, but I don't know which bike I'd prefer in a basic crit. My philosophy is to train on the bike that you are going to race. That bike would be the Madone. However if the 2300 had an advantage in sprinting, I might consider using it for crits.


----------



## 3465mike (Dec 7, 2004)

jbrumm said:


> Thanks for the reply, finally someone qualified respond to my inquiry. I own both bikes. I prefer the Madone overall, but I can't say why. I can't put a finger on it as I really like the 2300. I bought the 2300 this Fall to be my winter backup for the Madone, but I ended up liking it so much that I decided to ride a 12 year old beater this winter. I have just recently upgraded the 2300 to ultegra 10 spd, but because the roads are so nasty on the East coast I haven't compared the 10spd equipped 2300 with the 10 spd equipped Madone. While still outfitted with Utlegra 9 spd, The 2300 seemed to have a smoother drive train than the Madone. The 2300 seemed more solid when pedaling in the saddle. The Madone did seem to jump out more quickly when out-of-the-saddle sprinting as you mentioned.
> 
> I know which bike I would compete on for a hilly race, but I don't know which bike I'd prefer in a basic crit. My philosophy is to train on the bike that you are going to race. That bike would be the Madone. However if the 2300 had an advantage in sprinting, I might consider using it for crits.


......the 9 speed stuff does seem to work smoother....the narrower these chains and cassettes get, the quicker they wear, the more finicky they are to adjust, and the less margin for error there is...i own a ten speed dura-ace bike, but I still feel my 9 speed durace bike shifted better...


----------



## blehargh (Mar 17, 2004)

jbrumm said:


> I know which bike I would compete on for a hilly race, but I don't know which bike I'd prefer in a basic crit. My philosophy is to train on the bike that you are going to race. That bike would be the Madone. However if the 2300 had an advantage in sprinting, I might consider using it for crits.


So your purpose is to ride the bike right?  jk.

anyways as to answer whether the 2300 gives you an advantage in a sprint, why don't you do an experiment? pick a stretch of road with a definite start and end points and clock yourself. you don't have to do it back to back, since you'll be tired. but just keep a log of what times you get on which bike. ideally you should split time on both bikes, (i'd flip a coin to decide which bike i would test to remove any personal prejudice) this isn't a totally controlled test since conditions will change, your body will get stronger, etc etc, but if there's an obvious advantage to one bike or the other, the results will show up over the long run. 

what do you think?

-don


----------



## blehargh (Mar 17, 2004)

oh and whatever the stretch of road you want, should be however long you feel you need to sprint for, so it's not like a 40k TT. 

-don


----------



## harvestlaser (May 13, 2004)

*madone gets my vote*

the madone would be better it is probably just as stiff but thats not my selling point. the madone will allow you to be more fresh when you get to the sprint due to the reduction in vibration. therefore overall performance advantage goes to madone, and that includes the sprint.


----------



## Cyclesmith (Jan 1, 2005)

*Hey Everyone....My Bike Is Stiff*

I agree...it always kinda irks me when people talk about "stiffness". Because no one can ever define it...and when people do, everyone has their own meaning. 

1. I think stiffness is just a made up term...is "stiffness" a good thing, or a bad thing? Do you what to ride a bike that feels like a rubber band or an oak tree??? Personally, I don't want either. 
2. What happens when a bike is not "stiff"? OR What happens when a bike is "stiff"? 
3. And besides...I think the bottom bracket, crank, and wheelset has far more to do with overall "stiffness" than anything else. 
4. But then again, are we really just talking about the frame, or the whole bike. Are two different frames built up with the exact same components going to have the same "stiffness"? So then maybe it is just the frame that dictates that. 
5. Perhaps its a combination of the frame, build, geometry, and components. In which case, "stiffness" is a bit more of a craps shoot. Then the reasonability of "stiffness" isn’t in the hands of just one company, or manufacture. 

Can anyone in the world actually quantify bicycle "stiffness". I have yet to hear anyone actually agree on that...


----------

