# Shoe fitting - the proper way?



## eric.radhik (Jun 5, 2013)

I just want to make sure Im not getting fed a line of BS. I am in the process of purchasing a pair of Sidi shoes and I am EU47 Mega.

The problem is that my "big toe" touches the very front of "regular size' EU47 (non mega) and I will try out the Mega (when they come in) but I am being told that is a "perfect fit" when the toe touches the front? It just seems a bit counter-intuitive to me if the toe touches the front of the shoe. Im being told that the shoe will break in and the heel will "push back" and give more room once I "break in" the shoe. Is this true?

Secondly, I have high arches and I am wondering if anyone has experiences with esoles or G8 archtech 2600s? Do I need to go a size up? Or are they low profile enough?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

IMO most people buy shoes (all types) at least a size too big. I size my cycling shoes so my toe is usually very close to or just touching the front of the toe box. You're not running in them, so your toe won't get jammed into the end of the shoe. I've also done lots of rock climbing, and played soccer and hockey so i'm used to and don't mind tight fitting footwear. It really depends on the shape of your foot and how the rest of the shoe fits, but if that's good and your toes just touch the front it shouldn't be a problem.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

Just my opinion that there should be a little wiggle room... but there are a lot of factors to consider. Thick or thin socks? History of in-grown toe-nails? Skinny foot or wide foot? I think that the statement that it is a "perfect fit" is too general and ignores possible complications.


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## Dave Cutter (Sep 26, 2012)

eric.radhik said:


> I just want to make sure Im not getting fed a line of BS. ....
> The problem is that my "big toe" touches the very front of "regular size' EU47..... I am being told that is a "perfect fit" when the toe touches the front? ..... Im being told that the shoe will break in and the heel will "push back" and give more room once I "break in" the shoe. Is this true?


*The shoe doesn't fit you correctly*.... it will hurt your foot. The space at the front of the shoe is called the "toe box". Your toes should move freely inside the toe box... and never touch the front of the shoe.


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## eric.radhik (Jun 5, 2013)

cxwrench said:


> I size my cycling shoes so my toe is usually very close to or just touching the front of the toe box. You're not running in them, so your toe won't get jammed into the end of the shoe.


thx for the input.

I have to admit... there is a lot of conflicting information out there about this subject.

#1 says that "this isnt a walking shoe" and slight touch (no crunching) is ok.
#2 says that you "should" have room in the toe box. (tyvm Dave Cutter... I didnt know)


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Dave Cutter said:


> *The shoe doesn't fit you correctly*.... it will hurt your foot. The space at the front of the shoe is called the "toe box". Your toes should move freely inside the toe box... and never touch the front of the shoe.


Hmmm...then i guess mine have fit incorrectly for the last 30 or so years. In which i've never lost a toenail,
nor had any problems at all w/ my feet,
and ridden thousands of miles. 
It's obviously personal, and people will fit shoes all sorts of different ways. My toes actually have plenty of room to 'move', they just happen to brush against the end of the shoe. They're not mutually exclusive. 
Never say never, in this case.


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## Eyorerox (Feb 19, 2008)

Why are you trying a wider shoe if you need a longer shoe?


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## bdaghisallo1 (Sep 25, 2007)

to the OP,

How do you pedal? Are you a toes down rider or do you ride more flat footed, even when out of the saddle. The more toes down you pedal, the higher the likelihood that your big toe touching the front of the toe box will bother you. If you pedal flat footed, there will be less force pushing your toe forward in the shoe and into the front of the toe box.


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## Blue Star (Jun 9, 2012)

My cycling shoes (Sidi Mega 44) are a full size smaller than my running shoes and my big toe barely touches the shoe. I'm in the camp that says that this is how to fit a cycling shoe. I bought my first pair of dedicated cycling shoes in 1984 and this fitting has served me well.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

IMO, cycling shoes should be comfortable when riding for extended periods and in hot conditions. For me, that is shoes that are not tight, snug, close fitting, or whatever. They have room to allow my foot to spread when weight is put on it and to move a bit within the toe box. I find shoes that are not like this can cause me to get hot spots or numbness. Fit can be fine-tuned with footbed inserts and sock thickness. That's what works for me. Others may have different preferences.


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## Hughsdad (Jan 21, 2011)

*Toes touch*

When I bought my Lakes, the fitter was adamant that they needed to be as small & close fitting as possible. My big and 2nd toes touch the front. At first they felt very strange, but now I don't notice it at all, especially when riding. In all other respects, the shoes fit and perform perfectly. I have plenty of room to wiggle my toes, don't get hot spots. The only problem is I cannot wear thick socks in the winter.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

asking shoes fitting is like asking about bike fitting. You'll get tons of answers, all are correct to the individuals, of course.

For me, I do not want my big toe touching the front if I'm just wearing the shoe without exerting any force on my foot (ie, foot is free dangling). If my big toe touches the front without doing anything, then it means that my big toes will definitely be poking the front hard at every pedal stroke (because I'm a bit of a downward peddlers). So I do want a shoe that give me a little bit (barely) of wiggle room. Besides, you can always wear a bit thicker sock, or use a foam sole padding, to make up for bit larger size.

This also depends on the flexibility of the shoe too. Shoes made of very hard top material will not allow much freedom of movement, so I size up 1/2 size. Shoes made of soft and pliable material, I might stay true to size since my toe have more wiggle room without pain due to a softer top. I love shoes with softer tops.

But between having a shoe that 1/2 a size too big and 1/2 a size too small, you want to err on the 1/2 too big because you can always correct it with paddings and socks. 1/2 a size too small, you'll be hurtin on a long ride. But the tricky thing is you won't know if a shoe fits you good until you used it for a month or so, so buy them from a shop that will let you return them unconditionally (eg, Performance, and REI, and Competitive Cyclist will)


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## Edhunt (Sep 1, 2012)

As everyone else has said, YMMV. For me, I have a pair of EU44 shoes that fit snugly (just like my soccer cleats and track spikes). I also have a pair of EU45 shoes that have a little more room for when I ride in the rain or want thinker socks in the winter. I ride every day for my commute as well as when I get time on the weekend, but I seldom get more than 30 miles in a stretch or 50 miles in a day.


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## eric.radhik (Jun 5, 2013)

Eyorerox said:


> Why are you trying a wider shoe if you need a longer shoe?


The LBS did not have the Mega in stock and had to order it. The ideal was to test the "length" of the shoe by trying on a "regular 47" (not mega) to confirm that length is ok.

Once I get the Mega then I will try again but since Megas are very hard to find in any store (in my experience) then I was just hoping for the right length versus asking the store to ship them and possible ship the bigger/smaller size.

Also, I was hoping to confirm if I do need a size up, even though my toes touch the front now, even I wanted to buy an esole/G8 archtech insole for my high arches.


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

This is the SIDI fit method, should be the same fit method for cycling shoes.
The store isn't feeding you a line of BS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-f3mycbNfQ
There are some points to consider.
The shoe will not fit the same when you get up first thing in the Am, vs. after you put in 50 miles.
If you plan on using an after market insole you might very well have to size up with the shoe.
I wear a 12C per the Brannock device, some Alllen Edmonds and Alden last fit me perfectly in 12C, on Alden last has to go down to a 11.5C
In Birkenstock I wear a 45N
My 30 year old kangaroo hide, leather soled, Rivat brand cycling shoes are 45's.
The Sidi chart would put me in a 47 (for the US market)
I had a Sidi 46 (I can add an insole), a 45 fit great in the AM, and settled on 45.5.
I can move my toes, in the toe box, still fit after a Century, and yes the front side of toe box touches my big toe (the toe box does narrow in the front).

A shoe that is too big, might have issues with cleat placement. Putting on a pair of cycling shoes can be a big change for folks, same thing for someone that has only worn sneakers unlaced and putting them a pair of dress shoes.


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## eric.radhik (Jun 5, 2013)

bdaghisallo1 said:


> to the OP,
> 
> How do you pedal? Are you a toes down rider or do you ride more flat footed, even when out of the saddle. The more toes down you pedal, the higher the likelihood that your big toe touching the front of the toe box will bother you. If you pedal flat footed, there will be less force pushing your toe forward in the shoe and into the front of the toe box.


Thats a really good question and I really dont know how to quantify how I pedal. TBH If I were to say anything... Im more of a "scrape gum off your shoe" type of pedal guy and when Im tired... im more purely a "masher" up and down? I rarely get out of the saddle... its usually only because im going too slow uphill or im stopping.

Im wondering if there is a way to know exactly how to pedal or how I pedal...


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

OP - it does somewhat come down to personal preference. I tend to lean more towards CXWrench's side of the spectrum as to his point these are not "street" shoes. They are purpose build/used for a non-impact sport when it comes to the foot. Of the shoes I own, I definitely prefer the ones that fit the closest, without impairing freedom of movement. My commuting shoes frankly are probably 1/2 size large. They were the first shoes I bought and were sized to my street shoes. I've kept them around as they still work and aren't worth trying to sell.

As for your question on insoles. Personally for me, they are a necessity. I use the esoles and think they are great. If you haven't checked out Steve Hogg's articles on insoles, wedges, and shims, do yourself a favor and give them a read. Most definitely useful for gaining comfort and efficiency.


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## eric.radhik (Jun 5, 2013)

mikerp said:


> There are some points to consider.
> The shoe will not fit the same when you get up first thing in the Am, vs. after you put in 50 miles.


I totally get that... I did try late in the afternoon but Im still trying to work on that 50mile mark.



mikerp said:


> This is the SIDI fit method, should be the same fit method for cycling shoes.
> The store isn't feeding you a line of BS.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-f3mycbNfQ
> There are some points to consider.


Thanks for the link...



mikerp said:


> The Sidi chart would put me in a 47 (for the US market)
> I had a Sidi 46 (I can add an insole), a 45 fit great in the AM, and settled on 45.5.


Of course going the half size up would be awesome but since Im starting at 47 SIDI... they stop making the half sizes at 46.5. So, its full sizes past 47. SIDI 48 felt like it had a full "thumb size" of space from my big toe to the front and slipped in the back while I was walking. (of course I know the cycling shoe is not made for a walking shoe but that is all i have for context.) While the 47, my big toe was touching and I did have a lot of room and the heel stayed on well.

I am hoping that the 47 Mega will eliminate any concern and I will have room in the front and mainly the width because my Specialized Pro Roads are not wide enough and I get numbing on the outside of my foot past 20 miles.


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## eric.radhik (Jun 5, 2013)

Hughsdad said:


> When I bought my Lakes, the fitter was adamant that they needed to be as small & close fitting as possible. My big and 2nd toes touch the front. At first they felt very strange, but now I don't notice it at all, especially when riding. In all other respects, the shoes fit and perform perfectly. I have plenty of room to wiggle my toes, don't get hot spots. The only problem is I cannot wear thick socks in the winter.


Thx for your reply. Im lucky for the fact that I live in SoCal and thick winter socks is usually a bad idea anytime of the year. So, at least that will help in the long term. Did you ever try inserts/insoles?


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## eric.radhik (Jun 5, 2013)

aclinjury said:


> asking shoes fitting is like asking about bike fitting. You'll get tons of answers, all are correct to the individuals, of course.


Im definitely learning that fact... 



aclinjury said:


> But the tricky thing is you won't know if a shoe fits you good until you used it for a month or so, so buy them from a shop that will let you return them unconditionally (eg, Performance, and REI, and Competitive Cyclist will)


I unfortunately am working with a LBS that requested me to purchase the shoe before the ship it to their store. Im getting the feeling that I will only be able to return it if the shoe stays in the store but once it goes on the road... all calls are off. Would it be a "prick move" if I were to ask for a refund and purchase the shoe from Competitive Cyclist? Since I am able to return it after a week or two to "make sure" it is a proper fit? I would truly hate to waste that much money if the shoe doesnt fit properly after a long ride! And I honestly just dont have much experience with the proper shoe fitting to know better....


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

eric.radhik said:


> Im definitely learning that fact...
> 
> 
> I unfortunately am working with a LBS that requested me to purchase the shoe before the ship it to their store. Im getting the feeling that I will only be able to return it if the shoe stays in the store but once it goes on the road... all calls are off. Would it be a "prick move" if I were to ask for a refund and purchase the shoe from Competitive Cyclist? Since I am able to return it after a week or two to "make sure" it is a proper fit? I would truly hate to waste that much money if the shoe doesnt fit properly after a long ride! And I honestly just dont have much experience with the proper shoe fitting to know better....


Not a prick move at all. These are not custom order. No money, no goods exchange hands. All is good IMO

Unless you know exactly how the shoes fit you (ie, you have worn these shoes before and you're getting the same ones as replacement), you won't know for sure after a month. Even within the same brand, different models don't have consistent sizing. Only sure bet is to get from a seller that allows unconditional return (at least within 30 days). Otherwise, there's a good you'll be posting on Ebay something like: "..practically brand new, used 3 times, found out these don't fit me, so selling them". I've seen a few of these "practically brand new, but don't fit me" on Ebay lol


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

eric.radhik said:


> Thx for your reply. Im lucky for the fact that I live in SoCal and thick winter socks is usually a bad idea anytime of the year. So, at least that will help in the long term. Did you ever try inserts/insoles?


I think that pretty much everyone can benefit from better insoles in their shoes. The stock insoles in most shoes are useless for anything more than absorbing sweat.


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## eric.radhik (Jun 5, 2013)

krisdrum said:


> As for your question on insoles. Personally for me, they are a necessity. I use the esoles and think they are great. If you haven't checked out Steve Hogg's articles on insoles, wedges, and shims, do yourself a favor and give them a read. Most definitely useful for gaining comfort and efficiency.


His website is one of the reasons Im trying to make sure the shoe fit is appropriate with the insole. TYVM for your input!


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## Dave Cutter (Sep 26, 2012)

cxwrench said:


> Hmmm...then i guess mine have fit incorrectly for the last 30 or so years.....


Not necessarily. Swinging an ax, hammer, or using other garden tools may cause an inexperienced gardener to get blisters.... but it doesn't mean the tools don't fit. The body can and often does adapt with callouses and such. Experience... counts for a lot... but it doesn't make an ax fit a lumberjacks hands better than office workers. 

Like bicycle fit... there is right and wrong... even if the user isn't aware of the way a bicycle fits best. 



cxwrench said:


> ....It's obviously personal, and people will fit shoes all sorts of different ways. Never say never, in this case.


It could be your shoes fit great... and you misunderstand what I am pointing out about [the toe] touching the front of the toe box. Fit is always subjective. Objective... maybe not so much.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Dave Cutter said:


> *The shoe doesn't fit you correctly*.... it will hurt your foot. The space at the front of the shoe is called the "toe box". Your toes should move freely inside the toe box... and never touch the front of the shoe.





Dave Cutter said:


> Not necessarily. Swinging an ax, hammer, or using other garden tools may cause an inexperienced gardener to get blisters.... but it doesn't mean the tools don't fit. The body can and often does adapt with callouses and such. Experience... counts for a lot... but it doesn't make an ax fit a lumberjacks hands better than office workers.
> 
> Like bicycle fit... there is right and wrong... even if the user isn't aware of the way a bicycle fits best.
> 
> ...


I don't think i'm misunderstanding anything, you rather clearly state that you think the toes should "never touch the end of the shoe". I'm not the only one that wear their shoes so that my toes do exactly that. 
Yes, there are "right and wrong" bicycle fits, but there is no _one_ right way to do it that everyone should follow.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> Hmmm...then i guess mine have fit incorrectly for the last 30 or so years. In which i've never lost a toenail,
> nor had any problems at all w/ my feet,
> and ridden thousands of miles.
> It's obviously personal, and people will fit shoes all sorts of different ways. My toes actually have plenty of room to 'move', they just happen to brush against the end of the shoe. They're not mutually exclusive.
> Never say never, in this case.


I lost two toenails (although one was partially due to a dropped bookcase) this winter with my winter shoes that only come in full sizes. Opted for slightly small rather than slightly large. Bad choice. 

Might be somewhat riding style. For those of us that hammer a bit, you can easily bruise.


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## jlwdm (Nov 7, 2009)

You need to go to a good Sidi/esole/bike fitter. The shoe you need will depend on the shape of your foot and the esole. A Sidi 46 felt too short for me, but the esole raised my arch correctly and made my foot slightly shorter. We used a 46 1/2 Mega which gave more width and volume. As I understand it the Sidi 46 1/2 is the same length as the 46 but with more volume. 

My fitting was about 5 years ago. My feet have been happy ever since. The esole should be designed to improve your pedal stroke also. Hence the good bike fitter. 

I highly recommend Paraic at Cyclologic in Scottsdale. 

Jeff


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