# Cancellara: unsportsmanlike attitude toward tour de france



## PJay (May 28, 2004)

Myself, I do not think it is cool for a rider to intentionally sign up for TdF, ride hard, get some cred, help out some friends (like Sastre 2008), then quit before the half-way point.

He has done this at least in 2008, 2012, and 2014. Each time, he has to have known he would hop out. His team has to figure he will bug out on them, so I guess they factor that in as they compose their team.

Does he suffer any penalty?

Does this seem weak, or chicken-quit?

Everyone else is competing under the assumption that everyone is balancing energy, tactics, teammates, and matches with the intention of finishing. But one dude gets to ride all-out, then shrug and saunter off. In my mind, an asterisk should be by his palmares anytime he bails out with malice and forethought.

He is obviously not a weak rider that can only perform well in TdF with this type of advantage; it just seems weak. Is it just me that gets irritated by this?


----------



## evs (Feb 18, 2004)

So what. He's not disrespecting the tour. He was in it for a chance at the stage win on the cobbled section. I'm sure they knew before he even started the race that he would drop out on the first rest day. Seriously, what's the big deal. Riders do races all the time for training. Plus the team getting some exposure from him being in the race was good. I don't see anything wrong with what he did.


----------



## star69 (Apr 4, 2014)

Since the beginning of the year he's raced a lot more than a lot of the guys in the tour and he wants to win the world road race. Of all the unsportsmanlike stuff that goes on in pro bike racing, this is not one.


----------



## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

Two words: Hour Record


----------



## r1lee (Jul 22, 2012)

he was probably there for those stages because the team wanted him to be there. He's been vocal about not really participating in the tour because it didn't suit his riding or his goals. He's got other races this year he's targeting.


----------



## PJay (May 28, 2004)

Dajianshan said:


> Two words: Hour Record


This is irrelevant. I am not saying Cancellara is not a great rider. I am noting possible unsportsmanlike premeditated plans: dipping in for the part you want, getting to ride as hard as you want with no concern for the Pyrenees or Alps as your genuine competition budgets energy, then skipping town. Any victory is thus not won on equal terms. For 2008, it affected who became the overall winner.

That is my view. Others don't seem to be bothered by this.

However, I am not going to discuss whether this is sportsmanlike simply because he is an awesome rider. Others can go back and forth on this.


----------



## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

Fabian quiting in the middle of the race for individual glory is nothing new. 

Back in the day, Cipo was the king of pulling out prematurely, leaving cycling fans frustrated and unsatisfied.


----------



## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

> Is it just me that gets irritated by this?


You and not very many others.

You're really misunderstanding the nature of the sport. A grand tour is many races within the race. People are there for many reasons. Decisions about which stages to contest, whether to abandon and when, etc. are made jointly by the team and the riders. As you note, he has done this before. Obviously, it's all right with the team. It suits their purposes and those of their sponsors.



> Everyone else is competing under the assumption that everyone is balancing energy, tactics, teammates, and matches with the intention of finishing.


Clearly not, since everyone knows this sometimes happens.



> anytime he bails out with malice and forethought.


The legal phrase you're looking for is "malice aforethought." And it doesn't fit. I don't know whether his abandonment at this point was aforethought, but I don't see anything malicious about it.


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

PJay said:


> This is irrelevant. I am not saying Cancellara is not a great rider. I am noting possible unsportsmanlike premeditated plans: dipping in for the part you want, getting to ride as hard as you want with no concern for the Pyrenees or Alps as your genuine competition budgets energy, then skipping town. Any victory is thus not won on equal terms. For 2008, it affected who became the overall winner.
> 
> That is my view. Others don't seem to be bothered by this.
> 
> However, I am not going to discuss whether this is sportsmanlike simply because he is an awesome rider. Others can go back and forth on this.


After reading your first post and seeing the language/wording used it's pretty obvious you don't have a thorough understanding of how pro cycling works. If you think it's 'unsportsman-like' then maybe watching stage races and grand tours is something you should avoid.


----------



## Charlie the Unicorn (Jan 8, 2013)

cxwrench said:


> After reading your first post and seeing the language/wording used it's pretty obvious you don't have a thorough understanding of how pro cycling works. If you think it's 'unsportsman-like' then maybe watching stage races and grand tours is something you should avoid.


This!


----------



## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

How many riders pulled out before the Olympics last time? I remember a bunch.


----------



## CliffordK (Jun 6, 2014)

I would think he would have discussed his plans with his team mates before beginning the TDF, especially if he has scheduled overlapping events, so they aren't loosing anything. 

Perhaps we should complain about all those riders with fractures not toughing it out.


----------



## harlond (May 30, 2005)

If Frank Schleck or Haimar Zubeldia was a factor in GC, he'd probably stay. But what's the point of having Cancellara there just to ride along? This is probably the best decision for the team, and has little to no effect on the Tour.


----------



## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

OP: you are not the only one thinking that way, it was addressed on Eurosport this morning.

He's done his job at the Tour, he was there for the cobble stage and now he's tired and there is no reason for him to drag his butt up the mountains just too see him wiped out by the end of it. The team is focused on the World Championships in September and they have to make decisions on what is best for them. If that means pulling a rider off the Tour, then so be it.


----------



## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Retro Grouch said:


> Back in the day, Cipo was the king of pulling out prematurely, leaving cycling fans frustrated and unsatisfied.


Maybe some fans, but not me and a lot of others I know. Knowing that he was likely only to be around for the first week took away nothing from the really exciting sprint wins he uncorked. He won a dozen stages in 6 Tours, including 4 days in a row in '99. They were all fun.


----------



## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

Dajianshan said:


> Two words: Hour Record


or not..
Cancellara's hour record attempt suspended indefinitely | Cyclingnews.com


----------



## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

PJay said:


> His team has to figure he will bug out on them, so I guess they factor that in as they compose their team.


They knew this ahead of time.



> Does he suffer any penalty?


He gets a DNF on his record.



> Everyone else is competing under the assumption that everyone is balancing energy, tactics, teammates, and matches with the intention of finishing.


"Balancing energy" HAHAHAHA. In the next flat stage I'm sure you'll see the yellow jersey helping chase down the breakaway for the sprinters.



> In my mind, an asterisk should be by his palmares anytime he bails out with malice and forethought.


Maybe like a DNF and 10 articles written about it?



> Is it just me that gets irritated by this?


Yes.


----------



## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

someone doesn't know the recent history of sprinters cherry picking stage wins before the mountains then having to abandon due to "nagging injuries."


----------



## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

I was talking to a domestic pro around here. He said he did a stage race in South America where you could just sit out a stage if you wanted then join again the next day.


----------



## bigjohnla (Mar 29, 2010)

I am sure it was arrranged that way from the start by the team. This is the nature of the sport these days. It is all about marketing. The Tour de France is the most watched cycling event. Even people who don't ride bikes watch it. Trek wanted him there. Trek lost a lot of cache' in the Armstrong debacle. I am sure they are trying to revive it by capitilzing on Fabians's success in the Classics to sell more Domane bikes. Right now the back bone of the higher end consumer cycling market is the Century Rider. Endurance riders. Fabian winning the cobbled stage would have been huge for them. Ther eare only a handful of teams with legitimate GC contenders. The rest are just trying to win stages. I bet Giant isn't complaining about Kittel dragging it across the mointains in 175th place like he is on a saturday club ride. He has won three stages. Lots of air time for Giant Bikes. The only reason he is there is for the sprints. That is not unpsortsmanlike. Just business.


----------



## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

bigjohnla said:


> I am sure it was arrranged that way from the start by the team. This is the nature of the sport these days. It is all about marketing. The Tour de France is the most watched cycling event. Even people who don't ride bikes watch it. Trek wanted him there. Trek lost a lot of cache' in the Armstrong debacle. I am sure they are trying to revive it by capitilzing on Fabians's success in the Classics to sell more Domane bikes. Right now the back bone of the higher end consumer cycling market is the Century Rider. Endurance riders. Fabian winning the cobbled stage would have been huge for them. Ther eare only a handful of teams with legitimate GC contenders. The rest are just trying to win stages. I bet Giant isn't complaining about Kittel dragging it across the mointains in 175th place like he is on a saturday club ride. He has won three stages. Lots of air time for Giant Bikes. The only reason he is there is for the sprints. That is not unpsortsmanlike. Just business.


Ambrosio wheels should now start marketing their nemesis tubulars towards century riders


----------



## bigjohnla (Mar 29, 2010)

deviousalex said:


> Ambrosio wheels should now start marketing their nemesis tubulars towards century riders


I have seen a helluva lot of Zipps on Century rides for sure.


----------



## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

Retro Grouch said:


> Fabian quiting in the middle of the race for individual glory is nothing new.
> 
> Back in the day, Cipo was the king of pulling out prematurely, leaving cycling fans frustrated and unsatisfied.


His wife was frustrated and unsatisfied too.


----------



## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

ziscwg said:


> his wife was frustrated and unsatisfied too.


bazinga!


----------



## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

love4himies said:


> OP: you are not the only one thinking that way, it was addressed on Eurosport this morning.
> 
> He's done his job at the Tour, he was there for the cobble stage and now he's tired and there is no reason for him to drag his butt up the mountains just too see him wiped out by the end of it. The team is focused on the World Championships in September and they have to make decisions on what is best for them. If that means pulling a rider off the Tour, then so be it.


This is absolutely correct. His team knoew ahead of time how long they wanted to use him and when they wanted him to turn his attention elsewhere. At this point in his career he's a stage hunter at best and it's just not worth it to keep him around to suffer in the mountains for two or more weeks so that he can have a shot a maybe one more stage that suites him. Plain and simple.


----------



## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

Rashadabd said:


> At this point in his career he's a stage hunter at best


When was he not a stage hunter? I don't recall him ever seriously contending a GC in a grand tour.


----------



## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

deviousalex said:


> When was he not a stage hunter? I don't recall him ever seriously contending a GC in a grand tour.


What I really meant to say is that it is a MUCH narrower set of stages he is in play for at this point. He was once the best time trialist in the world and in play for all the TT stages, plus he was a great breakaway specialist for the flat to light climbing stages. These days he doesn't seem all that interested in TT stages in grand tours, only occasionally tries in a bunch sprint, etc. He really has become a classics specialist and only seems to go all in on stages that are similar to one day classics. I still think he's a ton of fun to watch (particularly in the northern cobbled classics), but he's just not a big TdF guy anymore.


----------



## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

deviousalex said:


> When was he not a stage hunter? I don't recall him ever seriously contending a GC in a grand tour.


And you are absolutely correct, he's way too big to be competitive as a GC contender in a grand tour.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

JCavilia said:


> Maybe some fans, but not me and a lot of others I know. Knowing that he was likely only to be around for the first week took away nothing from the really exciting sprint wins he uncorked. He won a dozen stages in 6 Tours, including 4 days in a row in '99. They were all fun.


the big red train showing everyone else how it is done. Mario sitting up and looking back 'where is everyone?'
expecting him to withdraw before the mountains was part of the gig


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

deviousalex said:


> Ambrosio wheels should now start marketing their nemesis tubulars towards century riders


don't forget the FMB Paris Roubaix Tires

modern century riders have no desire for 32 3x, let alone tied and soldered

I have 3 sets of Mavic Classics Pros, a heap of red label GP4s and a pair of SSC Paris Roubaix


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

let's see
Andy Out
Frank 25th 12 minutes down
Alps and Pyrenees coming which doesn't help his training for the WC
yeah he should stay in and reduce his chances of another rainbow


----------



## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

That serves them completely and utterly right.


----------



## DonMI6 (Apr 8, 2013)

The alternative to guys like Cancellara & Cipolinni withdrawing at the first sight of a small hill is that they don't show up at all. I think the GT's would be poorer for their absence.That said, the sprinters who battle all the way to Paris deserve much more respect imho.


----------



## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

Retro Grouch said:


> Fabian quiting in the middle of the race for individual glory is nothing new.
> 
> Back in the day, Cipo was the king of pulling out prematurely, leaving cycling fans frustrated and unsatisfied.


LOL, from memory he'd be sunning himself on the beach while the Peleton rode by.

@OP not every team goes to GT's to for the overall win, some go for specific individual stages.


----------



## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

mikerp said:


> LOL, from memory he'd be sunning himself on the beach while the Peleton rode by.
> 
> @OP not every team goes to GT's to for the overall win, some go for specific individual stages.


Gotta love Cipo in his glory days! However, the chapter of The Lion King lounging with the ladies are now a distant memory.

He is now is a _Yoda of Cycling_, coaching and mentoring the next generation of guys 










Sadly, my inquires to be his training assistant have gone unanswered.


----------



## PJay (May 28, 2004)

OK, quitting the tour intentionally, premeditated, is fine. The way it affects everyone else is just tough cookies for them.

Why require a rider to ride every stage up to the point where he wants to quit? Why not allow Cancellera the choice to dip in and just ride the stages he prefers to ride?

Let's just get rid of the pretext of a gran tour.

That is holding back Cancellara from Palmares that ought to be his.

Why make Sagan finish each stage? Why not let him grab what points are available, then drop out for the day 2/3 of the way thru the stage, and do the same the next day?

Why not let Cav just dip in on the final day after a July of training on his own?

[I don't really care; I am just putting it out there because it logically makes sense, and ppl seem to want to rave on with various defenses of this behavior.]


----------



## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

PJay said:


> OK, quitting the tour intentionally, premeditated, is fine. The way it affects everyone else is just tough cookies for them.
> 
> Why require a rider to ride every stage up to the point where he wants to quit? Why not allow Cancellera the choice to dip in and just ride the stages he prefers to ride?


If you manage a team why wouldn't you? A rider has stages that he will shine at and other stages that he will work for the team on. As a manager you want to use all that is at your disposal to save those you are counting on for the stage.
Things are fluid and you can never put all your eggs in one basket, always leave yourself room to adapt.


----------



## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

PJay said:


> OK, quitting the tour intentionally, premeditated, is fine. The way it affects everyone else is just tough cookies for them.
> 
> Why require a rider to ride every stage up to the point where he wants to quit? Why not allow Cancellera the choice to dip in and just ride the stages he prefers to ride?


Would it make you (or anybody) feel better if the team lied and said Cancellara woke up sick and can't start? I mean you can't force anybody to finish.

It wouldn't be ONE tour race if the riders who were racing changed everyday, now would it? It would be just 3 weeks worth of 1 day races.


----------



## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

DonMI6 said:


> The alternative to guys like Cancellara & Cipolinni withdrawing at the first sight of a small hill is that they don't show up at all. I think the GT's would be poorer for their absence.That said, the sprinters who battle all the way to Paris deserve much more respect imho.


Your last point is a reasonable way to feel (even if I don't entirely agree, personally). In Cipo's defense it must be said that he picked his battles. The Tour de France was a big stage, to be sure, but his home tour was more important, and he finished the Giro many times, riding the autobus through the mountains and often just making the time limits (and getting some slack from the officials on some occasions, I think). He won the Giro's points classification 3 times, I think, and won an astounding 42 stages in total.

But those Tour wins were sure fun to watch. And the days in full yellow kit with the yellow Cannondale were great TV.


----------



## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

JCavilia said:


> You're really misunderstanding the nature of the sport.


Try explaining why the GC lead would be willing to give up the lead for a few days as long as they know they can recover it.


----------



## dwt (Apr 2, 2002)

PJay said:


> This is irrelevant. I am not saying Cancellara is not a great rider. I am noting possible unsportsmanlike premeditated plans: dipping in for the part you want, getting to ride as hard as you want with no concern for the Pyrenees or Alps as your genuine competition budgets energy, then skipping town. Any victory is thus not won on equal terms. For 2008, it affected who became the overall winner.
> 
> That is my view. Others don't seem to be bothered by this.
> 
> However, I am not going to discuss whether this is sportsmanlike simply because he is an awesome rider. Others can go back and forth on this.


One of the class pro riders period. How many races and his role in TdF up to his team. He does what he is paid to do and what he is told, as they all do.


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

dwt said:


> One of the class pro riders period. How many races and his role in TdF up to his team. He does what he is paid to do and what he is told, as they all do.


remember the vuelta before he left Riis?


----------



## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

bigjohnla said:


> I am sure it was arrranged that way from the start by the team. This is the nature of the sport these days. It is all about marketing. The Tour de France is the most watched cycling event. Even people who don't ride bikes watch it. Trek wanted him there. Trek lost a lot of cache' in the Armstrong debacle. I am sure they are trying to revive it by capitilzing on Fabians's success in the Classics to sell more Domane bikes. Right now the back bone of the higher end consumer cycling market is the Century Rider. Endurance riders. Fabian winning the cobbled stage would have been huge for them. Ther eare only a handful of teams with legitimate GC contenders. The rest are just trying to win stages. I bet Giant isn't complaining about Kittel dragging it across the mointains in 175th place like he is on a saturday club ride. He has won three stages. Lots of air time for Giant Bikes. The only reason he is there is for the sprints. That is not unpsortsmanlike. Just business.


^^^This!!!! If you neglected to think about money, marketing, and sponsors, you have totally misunderstood the TdF! Why do you think they take the race outside of France?


----------



## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

jspharmd said:


> Why do you think they take the race outside of France?


To satisfy their imperial tendencies.


----------



## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

deviousalex said:


> To satisfy their imperial tendencies.


Touché


----------



## chuckice (Aug 25, 2004)

Urban Dictionary: mountain allergy


----------



## DonMI6 (Apr 8, 2013)

JCavilia said:


> Your last point is a reasonable way to feel (even if I don't entirely agree, personally). In Cipo's defense it must be said that he picked his battles. The Tour de France was a big stage, to be sure, but his home tour was more important, and he finished the Giro many times, riding the autobus through the mountains and often just making the time limits (and getting some slack from the officials on some occasions, I think). He won the Giro's points classification 3 times, I think, and won an astounding 42 stages in total.But those Tour wins were sure fun to watch. And the days in full yellow kit with the yellow Cannondale were great TV.
> View attachment 298074


I loved Cipo, he remains one of my favorites & you make a good point, The Giro was HIS grand tour & a major focus of his season. It is unreasonable to expect any sprinter to go the distance in two or three GTs every year. As you say, they have to pick their battles.


----------

