# WTF is with the flats?!



## Drummerboy1975 (Mar 14, 2012)

So did someone throw tacks on the road or what?


----------



## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Drummerboy1975 said:


> So did someone throw tacks on the road or what?


It's pretty obvious something was thrown onto the road...that many flats at the "Top" of a climb just don't happen.

It's good that Wiggins tried to neutralize the group, but Rolland saw it as an opportunity.

The race officials should give same time for all riders in that group over the top since it was an obvious outside interference with the race. 

Rolland will not be a liked rider in the Peloton tonight...Wouldn't surprise me to see him in a ditch tomorrow.


----------



## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

A Cofidis rider stopped for a flat and told his director that tacks were on the road.


----------



## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

Phil and Paul just said tacks on the road.


----------



## eekase (Nov 10, 2009)

jorgy said:


> Phil and Paul just said tacks on the road.


Paul, Phil said hooligans threw 28 tacks on the road...

I thought that only happened here in the USA at small races and bike trails, NOT the TdF!!


----------



## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

eekase said:


> Paul, Phil said hooligans threw 28 tacks on the road...
> 
> I thought that only happened here in the USA at small races and bike trails, NOT the TdF!!


Idiots don't just live in the US...they are a world wide nuisance :mad2:


----------



## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

eekase said:


> Paul, Phil said hooligans threw 28 tacks on the road...
> 
> I thought that only happened here in the USA at small races and bike trails, NOT the TdF!!





Wookiebiker said:


> Idiots don't just live in the US...they are a world wide nuisance :mad2:


Harmon and Kelly named off hand a case where a church pastor threw tacks on the road for a race. Idiots are everywhere.


----------



## yurl (Mar 31, 2010)

what jerk throw tacks on the road :incazzato: just before a descent


----------



## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

eekase said:


> Paul, Phil said hooligans threw 28 tacks on the road...
> 
> I thought that only happened here in the USA at small races and bike trails, NOT the TdF!!


French Radio has only *found* 28 so far sayeth Carlton.


----------



## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Wonder how the breakaway group missed them all.

Looks like most of the flats occured to the right side of the road.

I wouldn't be too quick to villify Rolland, he may not have fully understood what was happening yet, at the point he went off the front.

Wiggins made the right call.


----------



## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Wonder how the breakaway group missed them all.


They were thrown after the first group went through...there was a big gap and likely would have been spotted had they thrown them early. Looks like somebody wanted to mess up the GC not the leaders.



> Looks like most of the flats occured to the right side of the road.


Gives a place for the authorities to look...check the camera for unusual action from the crowds.



> I wouldn't be too quick to villify Rolland, he may not have fully understood what was happening yet, at the point he went off the front.


If everybody else in the Peloton knew what was going on...he did as well. The ONLY way he wouldn't is if his radio was broken. I would venture to guess the race officials made an announcement to all teams/riders about what took place at the top of the climb.



> Wiggins made the right call.


This I agree with, a good move by Wiggins, though he also punctured from the mess as well, so it was in his best interest to do it as well (though he did the slow down before his puncture).


----------



## Rick Draper (Jan 17, 2012)

I would guess they were placed after the lead group went through.


----------



## usernametaken (Jul 26, 2010)

I'm guessing they were dropped after the breakaway group.


----------



## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Wiggins flatted too?

Sheesh.

And how could TeeJ not have known to slow up with Evans hollering at him?


----------



## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Wiggins flatted too?
> 
> Sheesh.
> 
> And how could TeeJ not have known to slow up with Evans hollering at him?


TJ looked around but didn't pick Evans out in the mess.

I suspect the DS told him to stay with the main group once they realized what happened. 

Len


----------



## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Motor bike riders are inspecting their tires at the finish for evidence...


----------



## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Interview w George.......clearly pissed at Liguigas. 

Len


----------



## vagabondcyclist (Apr 2, 2011)

Wiggins may have changed bikes as a preventive measure once it became clear that tacks were thrown on the course.


----------



## gamara (May 20, 2002)

Apparently Robert Kiserlovsky of Astana crashed out of the tour. Not sure if it was caused by the tacks. This is definitely a criminal act.


----------



## Drummerboy1975 (Mar 14, 2012)

They just interviewed Tee Jay and he said that he heard Cadel but though that there was teammates around, which it turns out there was not. 

You could tell that Tee Jay was a but ashamed at his actions.


----------



## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Wonder how the breakaway group missed them all.
> 
> Looks like most of the flats occured to the right side of the road.
> 
> ...


Rolland knew exactly what was happening, Sky was seen telling him, finally his own team had to tell him to stop because he was making them look like ****. The guy has a crap rep now and he earned it.


----------



## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

Drummerboy1975 said:


> They just interviewed Tee Jay and he said that he heard Cadel but though that there was teammates around, which it turns out there was not.
> 
> You could tell that Tee Jay was a but ashamed at his actions.


I'm sure he will be _gently_ be reminded that he ain't there to win the white jersey.


----------



## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

Tejay needs to grow up a bit. 

Whenever the limelight shines on him, he gets carried away. Tejay got dropped hard in the first couple of mountain stages then Cadel had a rough day and suddenly everybody thinks BMC should be riding for Tejay? I keep trying to like him but he hasn't matured yet and is inconsistent through a stage race. Look at how Froome keeps pledging to work for Wiggins through this Tour, though the pundits are jumping out of their chairs saying Sky should back him. Froome springs ahead in a couple of sprints and gets ahead on a climb and gets called back and people start talking. Let's not forget that Wiggins has been a beast all year, is doing well in the mountains, and is poised to annihilate the long time trial coming up. Froome is sticking to the team plan and is the better for it. Tejay should pay attention. Cadel is the defending champion and best placed on their team in GC. 

I keep remembering Tejay talking sh!t about Levi when he got ahead of him with a huge sh!t eating grin and bawled on the side of the road when Levi took the jersey back from him the next day. He gets ahead of himself and should learn for a couple more years before he gets his own team built around him.


----------



## cyclist_ca (Jul 11, 2005)

It was funny when they asked George about the tacks on the road and he started on about the attacks.


----------



## danielc (Oct 24, 2002)

I'm amazed at how much disorganization there is in the BMC camp on the road. Not sure if riders tend to ignore their radios or not. I guess a rider can always ignore the radio and then later claim they didn't hear it. But I guess that's one of the advantages of sitting at home watching the race on TV....


----------



## reydin (Jun 2, 2009)

@ Tejay needs to grow up " In hindsight, I guess I should have waited ", Ya think! As already mentioned, Tejay's getting paid to support the team leader not worry about the white jersey. I don't know if it's just me but Tejay always seems to be "supporting" from Cadel's wheel instead of from the front like Wiggins lieutenants.


----------



## BicycleBastard (Mar 5, 2011)

reydin said:


> @ Tejay needs to grow up " In hindsight, I guess I should have waited ", Ya think! As already mentioned, Tejay's getting paid to support the team leader not worry about the white jersey. I don't know if it's just me but Tejay always seems to be "supporting" from Cadel's wheel instead of from the front like Wiggins lieutenants.


Ummm.....no, your wrong. Should he have slowed up? Yes. Is it a show of immaturity that he didnt? No.

TJ has done everything he can to keep Evans in this race up to todays stage and the confusion at the summit was not his fault. He did what he was told to do in sticking with the lead group once the confusion got sorted out. If his directeur sportif really wanted him to wait up for Cadel then he would have been told to wait on race radio and he would have backed off. 

Give the kid a break, he could potentially be on the podium right now if it werent for having to pace Cadel back from losing too much time a few days ago. He is selflessly sacrificing his white jersey hopes in favor of his captain and today was an outlier that has no bearing on his overall performance.


----------



## euro-trash (May 1, 2004)

gamara said:


> Apparently Robert Kiserlovsky of Astana crashed out of the tour. Not sure if it was caused by the tacks. This is definitely a criminal act.


Based on where he wrecked, I would guess the tacks were what led to that crash. It was criminal indeed.


----------



## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

Cadel DID have another teammate with him, but he had a flat, too. Tejay couldn't have known.

JSR


----------



## reydin (Jun 2, 2009)

BicycleBastard said:


> Ummm.....no, your wrong. Should he have slowed up? Yes. Is it a show of immaturity that he didnt? No.
> 
> TJ has done everything he can to keep Evans in this race up to todays stage and the confusion at the summit was not his fault. He did what he was told to do in sticking with the lead group once the confusion got sorted out. If his directeur sportif really wanted him to wait up for Cadel then he would have been told to wait on race radio and he would have backed off.
> 
> Give the kid a break, he could potentially be on the podium right now if it werent for having to pace Cadel back from losing too much time a few days ago. He is selflessly sacrificing his white jersey hopes in favor of his captain and today was an outlier that has no bearing on his overall performance.


"TJ has done everything he can to keep Evans in this race up to todays" I dissagree

"If his directeur sportif really wanted him to wait up for Cadel then he would have been told to wait on race radio and he would have backed off." I believe Tejay's stated something like "I heard there was a puncture but I thought there was another teammate with up there" at that point Tejay can be seen reacting to Cadel yelling FLAT! then looking directly at him then over his other shoulder then making the choice to continue on. He then went on to say something like "I couldn't really tell what was going on over the radio with all the confusion". Well Sky could tell and Radio Shack could tell so I don't buy it. I don't call that immature, at this level I call that unprofessional at best. 
If I was paying him to be lieutenant to my team leader, I'd be looking for a new lieutenant.


----------



## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Teej has future GC/yellow hopes (and real potential). He knows this, everybody knows this.

He's in the 'tweener stage, wanting to be an adult, yet not sure how to keep being the "kid" as is expected of him.

The other quandry, is by being a pure yes-man, and relegating his own drive and ambitions 100 percent, he could be typecast as a super domestique...someone physically capable of achieving great things but without the killer instinct necessary for a grand tour winner.

Tough spot.

That said, he should have held up for Cadel today. A podium spot for Cadel is. not out of the question.


----------



## reydin (Jun 2, 2009)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Teej has future GC/yellow hopes (and real potential). He knows this, everybody knows this.
> 
> He's in the 'tweener stage, wanting to be an adult, yet not sure how to keep being the "kid" as is expected of him.
> 
> ...


All good points indeed, Froome seems to be better at walking the line of current duties and future potential much better Tejay. For both though the future is theirs to take.


----------



## peter584 (Aug 17, 2008)

jorgy said:


> I'm sure he will be _gently_ be reminded that he ain't there to win the white jersey.


You're not kidding, the other day pacing Cadel he kept gapping him over and over. It's not that hard to pace someone without constant 10-15 ft gaps.


----------



## ulrichw (Oct 16, 2009)

reydin said:


> @ Tejay needs to grow up " In hindsight, I guess I should have waited ", Ya think! As already mentioned, Tejay's getting paid to support the team leader not worry about the white jersey. I don't know if it's just me but Tejay always seems to be "supporting" from Cadel's wheel instead of from the front like Wiggins lieutenants.


That's because Tejay's job most days is to stay with Cadel, not to make pace at the front of the group. It's much easier to do so from behind him than in front of him.

Unfortunately today, Tejay was in front of Cadel, and didn't react quickly enough to stop for him.

My guess is that Tejay wasn't sure what was going on, and his indecision let him hesitate long enough that he was far enough from the incident that stopping was no longer an easy option. His ambition probably made him hesitate that bit more.

Still, considering how great he was riding in Stage 11, and that Thibaut Pinot was up with the front group, the fact that Tejay dropped back to help Cadel was a big personal sacrifice, and speaks to his professionalism, in my opinion.


----------



## QQUIKM3 (Apr 20, 2008)

*I think it's this guy!!*

Va. Beach man convicted in tack attack on bicyclists | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com


----------



## reydin (Jun 2, 2009)

QQUIKM3 said:


> Va. Beach man convicted in tack attack on bicyclists | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com


Lol, apparently Virginia isn't just for lovers....


----------



## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

ulrichw said:


> Still, considering how great he was riding in Stage 11, and that Thibaut Pinot was up with the front group, the fact that Tejay dropped back to help Cadel was a big personal sacrifice, and speaks to his professionalism, in my opinion.


_*Personal sacrifice?*_ Isn't that his job at the Tour?

When he heard Cadel yell, he should have stopped as soon as he could and make sure his leader was okay. I've seen leaders flat/crash/whatever and then have _multiple_ of their teammates stop.

It was very amateur for Tejay to not stop. And he admitted in his interview that he heard Cadel yell. He never mentioned that stopping would be difficult, only that it was loud and a bit chaotic.


----------



## ulrichw (Oct 16, 2009)

jorgy said:


> _*Personal sacrifice?*_ Isn't that his job at the Tour?


Well yeah - that was my point. He did his job even though it was a sacrifice. (For another angle on this, see Froome's interview with L'Equipe).



jorgy said:


> When he heard Cadel yell, he should have stopped as soon as he could and make sure his leader was okay. I've seen leaders flat/crash/whatever and then have _multiple_ of their teammates stop.


I agree with this too. The thing is a lot of team workers are not in a position where they could ever be GC contenders. Tejay is young, which makes it hard for him to have the perspective that he still has many years ahead of him to succeed.

But think back to some other former teammates of Cadel's (e.g., Jurgen Van den Broeck), and you find some similar behavior (but without the admission that they should have helped).

My point is mainly, I don't think it's fair to roundly condemn Tejay for his mistake. Cadel contributed more to his own troubles (by not having the legs on Stage 11) than Tejay did.


----------



## reydin (Jun 2, 2009)

ulrichw said:


> Well yeah - that was my point. He did his job even though it was a sacrifice. (For another angle on this, see Froome's interview with L'Equipe).


 I don't see how doing what he is getting paid to do is a sacrifice, that's called doing your job, it's why he was selected to the tour roster, it's what he was contracted for.


----------



## pianopiano (Jun 4, 2005)

*tack attack*

Yes, there were definitely tacks scattered on the road today: 

Twitter / Trudgin: Luca Paolini's wheel after


----------



## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

WIth all of that crowd at the summit, how can a jackass dump tacks on the road without beeing seen? Shouldn't he/she have been immediately tackled by the spectators and turned in to the Gendarmerie?

I hope some lowlife copycats don't try this again.


----------



## danielc (Oct 24, 2002)

My thoughts exactly...with those huge crowds how would you get away with throwing tacks on the road. And if it was done much earlier how come nobody saw them on the road. Those were some narrow roads...


----------



## irish (Apr 8, 2004)

*actually that's how they dropped the tacks ...*



danielc said:


> My thoughts exactly...with those huge crowds how would you get away with throwing tacks on the road. And if it was done much earlier how come nobody saw them on the road. Those were some narrow roads...


think about it.. cyclist are coming through. everything is complete chaos. how hard would it be to reach in a pocket and toss out a handful of tacks while still continue to cheer crazy with the other hand. then get a buddy waving one of those flags to really provide a distraction.


----------



## edvard22 (Aug 12, 2011)

It is easy to sit in our living rooms and judge all of the athletes, but I think we need to remember that they are actually out there riding for five hours every day before we jump to conclusions so quickly. Everything is perfectly clear from a helicopter's point of view, but its chaos down on the road. Everyone is screaming at Van Garderen for not immediately jamming on the brakes of his bike and diving off the side of the road, but in the chaos of the summit nothing was clear and he got dragged over by the current. 

As for the subject of loyalty once again I think it's easy to judge someone from the comfort of our couches. I know that for me it would be pretty hard to stomach three weeks of absolute exertion only to be held back because I had to help someone else over a hill. Yes froome should be helping Wiggins and Van Garderen should be helping Cadel, but its easy to see how that would get a little old once in a while.

I think next year we'll see both Froome and Cavendish on a new team, and Van Garderen will continue to do what he's doing now, but he'll have his chance eventually. 

However the one thing we can all agree on is that the tacks were a disgusting crime, but they just showed us that sportsmanship and good will still exist in this world.


----------



## mangotreat0808 (Sep 4, 2006)

edvard22 said:


> It is easy to sit in our living rooms and judge all of the athletes, but I think we need to remember that they are actually out there riding for five hours every day before we jump to conclusions so quickly. Everything is perfectly clear from a helicopter's point of view, but its chaos down on the road. Everyone is screaming at Van Garderen for not immediately jamming on the brakes of his bike and diving off the side of the road, but in the chaos of the summit nothing was clear and he got dragged over by the current.


It's not like a rafting excursion where you get swept away by the "current" of the waves. Each domestique has full control of his bike- TJ could still press his brakes, & dismount especially after he clearly sees his team leader (the queen bee essentially) getting off his bike, and mouthing something. I'm sure he's not too exited about what happened, but that's the maturity gene not sinking in yet.


----------



## superjesus (Jul 26, 2010)

TJVG wants to keep white. His actions say it all. He probably wants to believe that he's there for Cadel, but deep down, Teej wants to keep white.


----------



## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

moonmoth said:


> WIth all of that crowd at the summit, how can a jackass dump tacks on the road without beeing seen? Shouldn't he/she have been immediately tackled by the spectators and turned in to the Gendarmerie?
> 
> I hope some lowlife copycats don't try this again.


The cops didnt stop someone with a road flare the other day, smoking out the road and burning a racer. Why would they stop anything else?


----------



## eschmunk (Jun 10, 2012)

I don't understand people sometimes, why would anyone want to create this much havoc in the midst of a race. Wonder if they will find out who did it.


----------



## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

piano said:


> Yes, there were definitely tacks scattered on the road today:
> 
> Twitter / Trudgin: Luca Paolini's wheel after


Here are some more photos. http://forums.roadbikereview.com/4005305-post5.html

There are also others of motorbikes and team cars with tacks in the tires.


----------



## yurl (Mar 31, 2010)

RkFast said:


> The cops didnt stop someone with a road flare the other day, smoking out the road and burning a racer. Why would they stop anything else?


whatever happened to mob justice? if you see an idiot throwing tacks collect them up and shove them up his


----------



## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

jorgy said:


> When he heard Cadel yell, he should have stopped as soon as he could and make sure his leader was okay.


He probably heard him yelling plenty later on the bus.:mad2:


----------



## pianopiano (Jun 4, 2005)

jlandry said:


> He probably heard him yelling plenty later on the bus.:mad2:


lol :thumbsup:


----------



## reydin (Jun 2, 2009)

edvard22 said:


> It is easy to sit in our living rooms and judge all of the athletes, but I think we need to remember that they are actually out there riding for five hours every day before we jump to conclusions so quickly. Everything is perfectly clear from a helicopter's point of view, but its chaos down on the road. Everyone is screaming at Van Garderen for not immediately jamming on the brakes of his bike and diving off the side of the road, but in the chaos of the summit nothing was clear and he got dragged over by the current.


 That would be a good point if it weren't for the video showing plenty clear road between himself and the barrier to his left and that even Tejay thinks he should have pulled over.



edvard22 said:


> As for the subject of loyalty once again I think it's easy to judge someone from the comfort of our couches. I know that for me it would be pretty hard to stomach three weeks of absolute exertion only to be held back because I had to help someone else over a hill. Yes froome should be helping Wiggins and Van Garderen should be helping Cadel, but its easy to see how that would get a little old once in a while.



Indeed, for you it might be pretty hard but I believe that's what is commonly referred to as being a professional or more simply, doing your job. The kid effed up and he knows it, hopefully he'll learn from this and grow up a little.


----------



## Kodi Crescent (Aug 3, 2011)

An Italian coworker described hiking somewhere to watch the Giro one year - "It's really boring. You hike to find a spot, wait around for a long time, and then the bikes whiz past and its over in a blink."

So how do you prolong the moment? How do you add excitement? Throw some tacks on the road. The riders flat. You get to watch them stop and change wheels and or bikes. They stick around longer. They slow down and you can take more time to compose your photos.

If you're really lucky, you may get a water bottle or autograph.


----------



## vismitananda (Jan 16, 2011)

Kodi Crescent said:


> An Italian coworker described hiking somewhere to watch the Giro one year - "It's really boring. You hike to find a spot, wait around for a long time, and then the bikes whiz past and its over in a blink."
> 
> So how do you prolong the moment? How do you add excitement? Throw some tacks on the road. The riders flat. You get to watch them stop and change wheels and or bikes. They stick around longer. They slow down and you can take more time to compose your photos.
> 
> If you're really lucky, you may get a water bottle or autograph.


:thumbsup: That's a much better explanation, since I am from the other part of the world and watching TDF live is a dream come true. I might wanna do that in case I have the chance. Long stops=more photos=more souvenirs.


----------

