# Campy Super Record 11 Shifting issues



## RidingAgain

Anyone have any shifting issues with their SR 11 gruppo? Had mine installed professionally in a brand new Cervelo SLC SL with Zipp 303/404 combo. 53/39 12-27 Zipp SL2 bar with Cinelli Carbo Stem. Zipp wheels have proper Campy spacers from Zipp.

Looks great but shifts terrible. 53/16 chatters and skips like mad and 39/27 won't work at all. Shifting up is awful and skips gears. Bike and groupset have less than 100 miles.

Tried changing derailluer hangers with aftermarket hanger as well as OEM Cervelo which seems to work better.

Changed cables with Campy SR cables, checked alignment. Tried different cable routing scenarios, checked cable guide on bottom of frame. Considered Gore cables but Campy said no, better to use their cables.

Cervelo tech guys claim SLC SL is easier to route cables than new S3 and should work fine with SR 11 groupset.

Tried running bike with cable outside of frame with another 12-27 SR 11 cassette and everything works fine. Rerouted cables under tape and in frame and shifts terrible agin.

Sent shifter back to Campy as well as original cassette which had one appeared to have one misalinged tooth on the 16 cogset. Shifter appears to not be exhibiting enough compound leverage to pull cables once they are routed.

Waiting for reply from Campy who has been great so far. The Cervelo guys are equally curious. If the problems continue with the shifter replaced/repaired and a new cassette, I guess its the frame cable routing which is a frameset issue or?????

Anyone have issues like this? I simply can't believe the SLC SL and SR 11 are junk, but the performance so far is proving otherwise.

Any comments or suggestions most appreciated.


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## zamboni

I never had any problem with SR11 on 50/34 set up, even on 50/12 & 34/27 shifting is working smooth. You might want to verify with the shop and see if they can discover any problem during the installatrion on the grouppo.


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## RidingAgain

The shop has tried everything as described above. Bike has been there almost a month now. Getting frustrated to say the least.


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## orange_julius

RidingAgain said:


> The shop has tried everything as described above. Bike has been there almost a month now. Getting frustrated to say the least.


I agree with you that this may be an (internal?) cable routing issue through the frame. That sucks. Hope that you can solve the problem soon and enjoy your bike.


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## C-40

*info...*

The first things to check is the RD hanger alignment. Just becasue a hanger is new does not mean it is properly aligned. Just some paint build-up on the hanger mounting surface can foul up the alignment. The only reason that the 39/27 should be a problem is hanger alignment or possibly a hanger that positions the RD too far to the right. Back the large cog limit screw out a turn or two so it does not limit the RD travel. I've found that the 11 speed RDs often have no excess travel and the large cog limit screw is hardly needed. 


I'm always amazed at the mechanics who are too dumb to identify cable friction. When the RD is setup, the cable tension should be gradually increased until all of the shifts to larger cogs work properly. Only after that is done should the shifts to smaller cogs be evaluated. If there is excessive friction, then the shifts to smaller cogs will hesitate and shift poorly. If you have a frame that requires too many tight bends or has intrenal cable guides that create friction, the problem may never be solved. What some mechanics do is alternately tighten and loosen the cable tension, searching for a solution that will never be found. The only shifts that are not affected by excessive friction are the shifts to larger cogs where the finger lever force will always move the RD is pushed hard enough.


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## tom_h

RidingAgain said:


> ...
> Tried running bike with cable outside of frame with another 12-27 SR 11 cassette and everything works fine. Rerouted cables under tape and in frame and shifts terrible agin...


So, apparently that's the root problem??

Seems the particular cable bends on the handlebars, along with the internal frame cable routing, create too much cable friction.

I recall reading that a Pro team (Cervelo Test Team?) had problems with Dura-Ace 7900 rear deraillers not shifting well with the internal routing on certain Cervelo frames. Some of the racers had their RD changed back to DA 7800.

As you may know, the shift cables on the 11sp shifters can be installed in 1 of 2 possible grooves, depending on whether you want the shift cable to be behind or in front of the handlebar (under the tape). Choose the routing that provides largest radius of curvature ... usually it's behind the handlebar.


As a minor note, not really relevant to your main problem, I found best performing RD shifting when I set the outboard limit screw about 1/2 turn counterclockwise from the nominally "ideal" setting of pulley centered on smallest rear cog ... ie, when cable is completely slack, the RD cage is very slightly outboard. Then , setting correct RD cable tension provides the correct position. 

Like C40, I also set the inboard limit screw slightly CCW ... cable tension provides the correct centering over the largest cog. The screw is safety stop of last resort to prevent RD from hitting spokes, not the method to adjust shifting quality.


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## RidingAgain

The Campy tech guys thought the handlebar may also have too acute of a bend. I am using a Zipp SL 2 short shallow bend. I can't believe the bar is the issue. I'll have my guys check the cable routing on the bar.

Mechanic thought the shifter was defective as there were apparently a bad batch in 2009. Campy also has a service bulleting which recommends a different spacer for some cassettes which have shifting issues in the 16 cogset.

Is this normal for campy, its my first campy bike and I'm surprised at all the issues? I bought the gruppo thinking it would be mechanically more sound than my dura ace on my other bike.


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## tom_h

RidingAgain said:


> The Campy tech guys thought the handlebar may also have too acute of a bend. I am using a Zipp SL 2 short shallow bend. I can't believe the bar is the issue. I'll have my guys check the cable routing on the bar.
> 
> Mechanic thought the shifter was defective as there were apparently a bad batch in 2009. Campy also has a service bulleting which recommends a different spacer for some cassettes which have shifting issues in the 16 cogset.
> 
> Is this normal for campy, its my first campy bike and I'm surprised at all the issues? I bought the gruppo thinking it would be mechanically more sound than my dura ace on my other bike.


Definitely NOT normal for Campy ...

I retrofitted the late-2009 2.3 mm spacer , didn't notice much (or any) difference vs the 2.2 mm spacer... but kept it in, because it's the new Campy default standard.

I'm unfamiliar with the Zipp SL2, but do verify how the shift cables are routed ... largest radius is best, usually that's the rear of bar. I'm using 3T Ergosum bars (shallow drop & reach).

Addendum: 
I also recommend to use the full original length of Campy's Rear Der cable segment on the chainstay ... don't shorten it ... keep a large radius on that piece of cable.

In early 2009, Campy instructions referred to a "front" and "rear" of cable casing ... apparently lube was injected from one end, and that end should be toward "front" of bike ... probably a 2nd or 3rd order effect ... regardless, Campy should not make cable orientation be a critical parameter. 

Shifter body contains a tiny metal flatwasher in the hole ... the square-cut factory end of cable housing (or 'casing') should be firmly seated against that flatwasher (not the field cut casing). If the flatwasher were to be knocked out & lost while threading the inner cable thru shifter, the outer casing would not have a rigid metal reference surface, only the plastic shifter housing ... might lead to some imprecision.


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## RidingAgain

Using full original length of Campy's rear der cable.

Will check for metal flat washer. Just say my bike, think its there too but will double check.


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## thosj

RidingAgain said:


> Using full original length of Campy's rear der cable.
> 
> Will check for metal flat washer. Just say my bike, think its there too but will double check.


That washer in the cable stop is a TINY little thing and sometimes pushes out VERY easily when threading a cable up thru. If you don't know it's there and don't watch for it, it's easy, easy, EASY to push it out and lose it without ever seeing it! I learned this luckily when mine pushed up but stayed on the cable where I saw it.

Seems these could actually fall out in the box if they're that loose. Of course, older levers just stopped the cable up to the plastic housing, not sure if the little washer would make much difference if the end of the cable is the factory cut end, or a nice, square field cut end.


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## volubilis

thosj said:


> That washer in the cable stop is a TINY little thing and sometimes pushes out VERY easily when threading a cable up thru. If you don't know it's there and don't watch for it, it's easy, easy, EASY to push it out and lose it without ever seeing it!.....


 Since each shifter has *two* of these washers, one each in the inside and outside track, you potentially have a couple spares.


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## RidingAgain

Anyone have any experience with Campy shifters going bad?


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## ericjacobsen3

*Shifter problems*



RidingAgain said:


> Anyone have any experience with Campy shifters going bad?


I have three Ultrashift data points:

Very early Veloce Ultrashift levers only shifted with Gore cables. When those wore out they never worked right again despite rebuilding about 10x. These levers have 2 pounds of friction in both the front and rear cables pulling straight out the back of the shifter body (not even bending over the yellow piece). You can measure this by removing the click plates and putting the spool and cable bak on. Shifted terribly even with cable away from bars. Click kit did not help and drilling out the washer O ring did not help much either. Chalk it up to no bearings for early Veloce and bad internal tolerances. 

Chorus Ultrashift 11s was marginal between 3rd and 2nd largest cogs on an 11-23. After settling in it shifts OK about 99% of the time and 1% takes a couple crank revs to go in gear. I never took these apart measure the friction with the bearings, but I would guess it is much less than two pounds.

Same Chorus 11 drivetrain with 12-25 cassette on different wheel shifts amazingly good (of course both cases had cables adjusted to best positions).

In general, I don't think the bar routing should be a night and day factor. However, if there is pinching between the yellow guide and body the pinching may be different for the two routes.

To test your internal cable routing as a factor, route a free cable all the way through so it is free on both ends and feel for friction. If you want to get really fancy, tie the lever end of the cable to a scale, attach the other end to the derailleur and measure the load on the scale pulling cable and letting it slowly release. To be honest, I don't know what are good and bad numbers, but you can measure the difference between your internal routing and external.

Hope this helps. Can't be sure from here what exactly is your difficulty.


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## RidingAgain

still no resolution from Campy. With all the money you pay, you wouldn't expect this.


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## C-40

*???*



RidingAgain said:


> still no resolution from Campy. With all the money you pay, you wouldn't expect this.


What is it that you expect? The problem may be entirely due to your installation, not a Campy problem. The normal warranty process requires you to return a defective part for Campy to look at. That takes quite a bit of time.

No one asked if you routed the right shift cable behind the bar or in front. With short reach bars, I route the cable around the back, since the front routing creates too sharp a bend. I also rotate the housing under the bar so it exits right by the brake housing, at the middle of the bar. I've got three bikes outfitted with short reach bars and 11 speed, with no shifting issues.

I assume that you didn't somehow get the old Campy cables. The new ones have ultra low friction printed on them. I've also had good luck with Shimano 4mm housing. If I use Shimano housing, I make the read loop even longer than a stock Campy model.

Another issue can be reusing cables (not housing). I only install them once. If the cables have been installed and ridden even a couple of times, you may find that reinstalling them creates excessive friction, due to the bends in the cable not being in the same position.

You might review some of the other problems that have occurred, like the shift cable head or the end of the cable drum rubbing on the ergo body. All three of my shifters are very early models (late '08 manufacture) and they all work fine.


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## Fai Mao

Why is the problem Campagnolo's? 

If it works fine when not taped it isn't the the shifter or the derailleur. 

This really sounds, at least in large part, like poor engineering on the part of Cervelo that makes you route cables through tight bends. They are who I'd be angry at first. Have tried to see if anybody else has had this problem with this frame? Maybe the people at Cervelo only tested the frame with an expossed wire setup.

Some simple test. 
1. Change the bars and see if shifting improves. Use any old bar with a different bend. If the issue is the tight bend on the bar and you need the shallow drop then see about a less acutely bent bar with a deeper drop. Then set the bar higher to bring the drops into a usable zone. 

2. If you can install a SRAM shifter see if the friction is the same. That will tell you if it is the component maker or the frame maker that is the problem.

This sounds like a cumulative effect where lots of little things, all of them related to the frame, bars, cable routing and placement have caused a problem that is difficult to fix.

I realize that a lot of bars and stems today are way, way too expensive to make it plesant to swap new pwarts out and feel for you. I really think the issue is, in large part the frame and bars


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## mtbbmet

RidingAgain said:


> still no resolution from Campy. With all the money you pay, you wouldn't expect this.


This forum is full of people who ride Cervelos who complain that DA7900 and Campy 11 are junk and shift poorly. These people, like you, refuse to admit that it's their precious Cervelo's that are the problem. Buy a new frame, one that works.


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## ericjacobsen3

Ridingagain,
There are a few things to check first. When routing in front of the bar, be sure to connect the cable first and tape down starting right at the lever to ensure you don't cut the corner and pull out the shift housing from the lever. If you get bad shifting without any tape and good shifting with no internal routing then you would suspect the frame.


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## ericjacobsen3

*Let's be nice*



mtbbmet said:


> This forum is full of people who ride Cervelos who complain that DA7900 and Campy 11 are junk and shift poorly. These people, like you, refuse to admit that it's their precious Cervelo's that are the problem. Buy a new frame, one that works.


We have a dissatisfied Campy/Cervelo user here we can all try to help. It is great to point out if Cervelo's may be part of the problem but let's not attack the guy and not prove the Campy snob accusations correct.


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## RidingAgain

Thanks ericjacobsen3. All I want is to ride my bike. 

If the frame turns out bad, I'll replace that too. The Cervelo tech guys have made that commitment.

Campy took a look at the shifter and is in process of rebuilding it. Apparently there was something wrong with it. Not sure exactly what, I'll see if I can find out. The cassette also has a bad 16 ring which has one tooth which isn't straight. That too will be replaced.

All new items bought from a certified dealer. Hopefully this will get me cranking again.


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## David Loving

grateful for warranties


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## zamboni

RidingAgain,

Did you get the groupo new or used ? If they were new I can't believed both shifter & cassette are defected.


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## mtbbmet

ericjacobsen3 said:


> We have a dissatisfied Campy/Cervelo user here we can all try to help. It is great to point out if Cervelo's may be part of the problem but let's not attack the guy and not prove the Campy snob accusations correct.


My bad. However, there are two companies in this industry that I can't stand. No three. Cervelo and their marketing is one of them. Sorry.


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## KQX

I have had a similar problem. I could adjust my SR11 to use 10 cogs only, either missing the big cog or the small cog. I have a Zinn custom frame and I bought new drop outs, checked cable routing, adjusted rear deraileur. I checked everything I read on forums. I talked to Campy and they said go to one of their Pro Shops which I did. They could find nothing wrong with the set up and returned the shifter for warranty. This was two weeks ago and I am hoping they can give some word soon. It is very frustrating waiting and not riding. I am curious what Campy will decide.


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## C-40

*advice....*

I would never wait on Campy for warranty service. The one time I returned some levers for warranty service, it took 3 months. I new it would be slow, so I just bought a new pair and was never out of service. I later used the repaired levers on another bike, or they can be resold on E-bay.

Some Campy services are just not worth the trouble. The guts for the right side cost $40 and can be replaced in 15 minutes.


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## KQX

The Pro shop gave me oneof their shifters which is installed and all 11 cogs work great now. Campy keeps saying next week, next week. Customer service is not a priority it appears. Makes me think hard about my next gruppo purchase.


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## C-40

*what did I tell you....*

Like I said, never wait on Campy warranty. Go out and buy what you need to fix the shifters yourself or buy a new pair of shifters and settle the problem later. I would be rare to require anything more than the $40 repair kit to fix an ultrashifter lever unless you break a finger lever or thumb button return spring.


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