# Horrible leg cramps... need advice



## new2rd

Good news, I completed my first century at the HHH100. Bad news is that I had to deal with leg cramps the last 32 miles. 

I was going strong not using much effort keeping my heart rate in the lower tempo range. I never exerted myself where I couldn't talk and never felt fatigued. All of the sudden I started to feel a slight quad cramp, slowed it down and got to a rest stop a few miles later. I downed some pickle juice and filled one bottle with my last GU Brew packet, the other two bottles were filled with some dilluted powerade (only because the water tasted so bad). The cramps continued to get worse where any increase in power resulted in more intense cramps. I had to stop twice to stretch, one time my hamstring cramped up so bad that I had to quickly stop and get the leg straight. The last 22 miles took me over 2 hrs, but I finished! 

I'm fairly certain that hydration was a factor. The day prior I didn't drink much after lunch and the morning of the race I didn't want to drink too much for fear of having to stop at the first rest stop to pee. When the race started I went to the water bottle every 15 minutes, but when I stopped at 37 miles I realized that I only consumed about 25-30 oz of water with some electolytes. 

I've been riding 125-130 miles a week and spent the last 4 Saturdays riding 60 miles each time. Given that the heat wasn't a factor and that I wasn't exerting myself, I'm looking for confirmation that hydration/electrolytes was the culprit. :mad2:


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## olr1

I'd say no, hydration wasn't the problem.

Largely because the cramp = lack of electrolyte theory doesn't work.

When you sweat, you sweat out a hypotonic solution, losing a small amount of electrolytes and lots of water, so the actual concentration of electrolytes in your body goes up, not down.

In my opinion, cramp = neuro-muscular fatigue.

Answer is to do more training...

More reading: The Science of Sport: Muscle Cramps: Part I


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## bballr4567

Read up on the sodium potassium pump mechanism for muscles.


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## jnbrown

Could one or more factors: heat, lack of fluids, insufficient training.


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## OldZaskar

Old thinking = Cramping is caused by hypohydration 
New thinking = Cramping is caused by fatigue

I have peed clear and cramped
I have run out of water to point of goosebumps, chills, nausea - all in 104 degrees temps, with no cramping

Think about it.. Have you ever - EVER - cramped on a short ride? Easy ride? Didn't think so. But, have you ever cramped even when you drank lots of fluids, ate and drank right the night before and morning of. Yes? Me too.


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## Coolhand

Actual answer- it depends. 

At the end of a long ride usually its fatigue. That's doesn't mean ignore electrolytes of course. 

But I have gotten them without significant exercise (the dreaded full lock up night leg cramp) so fatigue alone isn't the answer always either. 

In summary cramps suck.


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## stevesbike

good job finishing the century - sounds like fatigue to me. Sounds like your longest training ride was only 60% of your target distance. It would be worth adding some more longer rides into your schedule to adapt your body to longer rides - it not the distance then at least the target time. Maybe even other week.


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## new2rd

Looking back I think there's multiple possibilities. Hydration and lack of sleep also contribute to fatigue. Getting some training rides in the 75-80 mile range would probably help. I don't plan on being a big endurance rider, it's a bit time consuming, but I would like to get some more century's. I guess my training plan for the next one will include a couple high mileage rides of 80 miles with a better nutritional gameplan and a better night's sleep.


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## AC911

I was in a similar situation - actually a little worse as I would cramp both legs and quads and hamstrings at the same time. Tried all kinds of drinks, fluids, gels, training more/less with no significant change in the cramping sitution.

Then I went to a doctor, explained what's going on, a blood test showed I was magnesium deficient (apparently magnesium "glues" the liquid to muscles). Currently on magnesium supplement for about a month and have not experienced cramps.

Hope it helps.


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## cda 455

AC911 said:


> I was in a similar situation - actually a little worse as I would cramp both legs and quads and hamstrings at the same time. Tried all kinds of drinks, fluids, gels, training more/less with no significant change in the cramping sitution.
> 
> *Then I went to a doctor, explained what's going on, a blood test showed I was magnesium deficient (apparently magnesium "glues" the liquid to muscles). Currently on magnesium supplement for about a month and have not experienced cramps.
> *
> Hope it helps.



Very interesting.


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## new2rd

AC911 said:


> I was in a similar situation - actually a little worse as I would cramp both legs and quads and hamstrings at the same time. Tried all kinds of drinks, fluids, gels, training more/less with no significant change in the cramping sitution.
> 
> Then I went to a doctor, explained what's going on, a blood test showed I was magnesium deficient (apparently magnesium "glues" the liquid to muscles). Currently on magnesium supplement for about a month and have not experienced cramps.
> 
> Hope it helps.


Thanks. I just realized that I did some research a while back and bought a potassium/magnesium supplement. I was taking it to help with calf cramps. Well, they went away and I stopped taking this not too long ago. I think there may be some benifit from Magnesium, Potassium, and even calcium. 

I understand that cramps are brought on by fatigue, but what is causing the fatigue? It's not 100% based on fitness levels or not training hard enough otherwise Pro tour riders would never get cramps. I'll give this a long term try and see what happens.


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## PoorCyclist

new2rd said:


> I understand that cramps are brought on by fatigue, but what is causing the fatigue?


Probably because you are riding harder than your muscles can support and they call it quits.. 
I had always been able to feel a little tingy/numb feeling in my quads as a first stage of cramping. If I take it easy I could get it to go away and avoid a full on lock up cramp. Usually the mistake is I still ride faster than I should have. I kept drinking all my fluids until I ran out and bloated and that doesn't seem to help. 
Nothing seemed to help me except the time factor to let that muscle recover.

If there is a good news to this, is if you keep cramping it means you are out there pushing your limits. I would like to think this cramp threshold or your endurance eventually goes up.


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## bballr4567

new2rd said:


> Thanks. I just realized that I did some research a while back and bought a potassium/magnesium supplement. I was taking it to help with calf cramps. Well, they went away and I stopped taking this not too long ago. I think there may be some benifit from Magnesium, Potassium, and even calcium.
> 
> I understand that cramps are brought on by fatigue, but what is causing the fatigue? It's not 100% based on fitness levels or not training hard enough otherwise Pro tour riders would never get cramps. I'll give this a long term try and see what happens.


No, cramps CAN be caused by fatigue. The mechinism behind the cramps is the sodium/potassium pump in your muscles. If there isnt enough of either, it doesnt work and you get cramps. It doesnt matter the road that you take there because the end result is the same. 

The Sodium-Potassium Pump


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## robwh9

jnbrown said:


> Could one or more factors: heat, lack of fluids, insufficient training.


In my experience, there's no magic pill or potion that will overcome insufficient training.


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## cda 455

For the sake of discussion:

What causes cramps on ones hamstring at 0215HRS while one is sleeping  ?


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## Erion929

cda 455 said:


> For the sake of discussion:
> 
> What causes cramps on ones hamstring at 0215HRS while one is sleeping  ?



For me, it would be starting sex at 0210HRS 

New2rd.....too bad on the pickle juice not working. I had read several articles and anecdotes on the stuff and it seemed somewhat promising as an aid for cramps. I was hoping there would be a quick-acting effect with it in case I needed help on a long ride. 

**


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## The Angry Roadie

Is there a worst case scenario with cramps....a few times ive gotton ou of my car after long rides and had to stand or sit immediatly cause my leg locks up...can a cramp cause any severe muscle damage?


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## Erion929

The Angry Roadie said:


> Is there a worst case scenario with cramps....a few times ive gotton ou of my car after long rides and had to stand or sit immediatly cause my leg locks up...can a cramp cause any severe muscle damage?



I doubt it....there are hardcore athletes out there who have gotten major disabling cramps during play, and I don't think I've ever heard of any damage.

**


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## The Angry Roadie

Spin more, standing or pressing while peddling using mostly your quads will make you cramp faster.


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## Super_6_3

olr1 said:


> I'd say no, hydration wasn't the problem.
> 
> 
> In my opinion, cramp = neuro-muscular fatigue.
> 
> Answer is to do more training...
> 
> ]



I agree. Same thing happened to me when I ran my first marathon. I knew it was because of lack of training, especially when I missed a pair of 18 milers and a 20 miler. My legs were just fatigued and cramped like hell.


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## Gervase

the Latest theory that has been revealed and it's the one that makes the most sense to me is what the first 2 responders to your account said, i.e. neuromuscular failure.
old theories of 1 dehydration...we can cramp though when we know we have hydrated. 2 Lack of electrolytes as one mentioned not necessarily correct, and people still cramp too when electrolytes are known to be at good levels. 3 lack of stretching, yes but again you can still cramp. this helps when you have cramped or need to releive it, but before the ride? well it helps to a degree. 4 cold causing muscles to cramp, but again the cramps are more likely to happen near the end of the ride, when the muscles are warm.
So the lastest theory is simple. after long periods of going hard, the lactate salts build up in the muscle, and this causes a short circuiting of the electrical impulses in the muscle, thus causeing the muscle to fire on itself, or misfire if you like (cramp) If you think about this, cramping always happens when you have been pushing hard and the fatigue starts to set in. It usually happens near the end of a race, and that supports this theory that it's this build up, from having pushed hard.
I have been able to get rid of cramp by spinning away rpm 100-110 for 15 minutes, after this I can go hard again. 
As someone stated above, one of the best things is more conditioning, more training, so the body, muscles can handle a higher load.


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## Erion929

The Angry Roadie said:


> Spin more, standing or pressing while peddling using mostly your quads will make you cramp faster.




Agree with this...and Gervase.....when I get cramps it's due to muscle fatigue near the end of my ride, exacerbated when I stand and power up a hill. Last time it happened, I stopped for a couple of minutes, then spun an easier gear home and had no issues. Hopefully, training longer/harder and continuing to do hill sessions will cut the cramps.


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## pedalruns

To the OP... I would think your cramps were fatigue and hydration... I did that century as well and the winds were like 20-30mph and it was still pretty warm.. I too suffered cramps in the end, which I"m sure were caused by a bit of both... I had pickle juice and that helped.. Congrats on the century, that was not an easy one. And the last 22 miles were in that head wind!!


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## NateDieselF4i

Proper stretching
Proper hydration

Two most important factors. Assuming you had sufficiently trained. 

Bananas are also miracle workers hah. Taurine supplement can help as well.


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## cycleT

Magnesium is needed for the relaxation of muscles. Apparently, many of us are deficent and there is not a good test to show you are low because it is mostly in cells, not in blood. Athletes can be low in magnesium as exercise can lower it. As well as a lot of sugar and carbs. There is a lot of information on the web, u tube about it. look into it, investigate and decide for yourself. I feel that supplementing with chelated magnesium, vitamin D 5000iu and zinc( which many athletes can be low in as well -- the bodybuilding sites have info on this.) has improved my cycling. Here are acouple articles two on mag and cramps and one on general information and one for the vitamin d council. You need magnesium to make ATP or cellular energy.

http://www.mg12.info/articles/cramps.html
http://members.upnaway.com/~poliowa/Magnesium Mucle Relaxation.html
http://members.upnaway.com/~poliowa/Magnesium - a Miracle.html
http://www.vitamindcouncil.org


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## MercRidnMike

OldZaskar said:


> Think about it.. Have you ever - EVER - cramped on a short ride? Easy ride? Didn't think so. But, have you ever cramped even when you drank lots of fluids, ate and drank right the night before and morning of. Yes? Me too.


I've had to deal with someone who cramped up badly enough to be a DNF within 10 miles of the start of a charity ride. For her, it was an electrolyte issue, but not related to hydration during the ride (ate and drank well the night before too and yes, she'd trained well).

Sometimes crap just happens...sometimes it is what we do that pre-disposes us to these issues (over training, Mg/Na/K issues, under training) in the same way that those who donate blood can be a little low in their Fe...but that isn't always the case.

If the cramping is a regular issue, I'd say talk to your doc...could be something else going on.


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## Crimecrusher

good info


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## UtahCyclist

I agree with a lot of the people that training is very helpful, but if you start cramping during a ride and need a "quick fix" I have found pickle juice to be the best option to stop the cramping. I know it sounds gross, but I did a double century and started cramping at mile 150, so I downed some pickle juice and felt much better a few minutes later after some small stretching as well.


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## Erion929

UtahCyclist said:


> I agree with a lot of the people that training is very helpful, but if you start cramping during a ride and need a "quick fix" I have found pickle juice to be the best option to stop the cramping. I know it sounds gross, but I did a double century and started cramping at mile 150, so I downed some pickle juice and felt much better a few minutes later after some small stretching as well.



Have read that several times, including a medical study. Just wondering, how did you carry the pickle juice on your person?


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## UtahCyclist

Good point. Mine had four stops that were self supported, so I had my support crew carry a bottle of it. I don't know if there is a way to carry a small amount of it in a jersey pocket. I didn't have a ton of it and it really helped. I couldn't tell if it was a bit of my mind thinking it should be better because of the juice, or if the juice actually helped. I have also ridden in some centuries where some aid stations have it.


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## Gnarly 928

I've done quite a few 12hr endurance races and I have cramped. One thing I did, on advice from the Hammer group is to take some Endurolite caps, when I cramped badly, and crunch em up with my teeth, then put the mess under my tongue. Seemed to work....It took away the immediate cramping but I still had to soft pedal to keep from locking up....
Admittedly, this was a very hot event, temps almost all day above 100f and over 15k feet of climbing...but for the last 20or so miles, flatish....I was rolling along at a whopping 12mph and being really careful with my legs....When the craps hit I had to get off and push my bike up about a 3% grade.... I had to stop riding with about 45mins remaining because the next lap began with about 3 miles of 5% uphill and I knew my legs would not do that..

My next outing in that same race I went a little easier on my legs, avoiding any max efforts all day and I actually accomplished more miles...it was cooler, too.

Cramps are weird...I don't think lack of conditioning plays much of a part...I have felt them when I've been doing very structured and intense training for long periods and am in excellent racing shape....


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## Gnarly 928

[QUOTE=....When the craps hit 

Typo....Cramps.....not craps.....but that's happened to me also....luckily in the back country near Mt Hood Oregon with plenty of trees.....hee hee.


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## Bevo

As a long distance off road runner cramps are a given, as much as the new theory says hydration and electrolytes are not the cause I still plan for it.

On a hot run or any that I sweat lots I use "S" Caps with 213mg Sodium, Potassium, Calcium, Magnesium and Vitamin D. These I will pop every 90 min or with 1 litre of water. Many of the sport drinks don't have this combination at this level and not to mention its hard to get those down when they are hot and taste like ass.
On my last 50K run on a hot day I was popping them like candy and drank 1 litre an hour with no problems, a good % of the race did not finish due to cramps and dehydration.

Conditioning matters 100% but if you start dehydrated then your asking for it no matter what your fitness level is..


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