# Long climb improvement on the trainer.



## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

Long climbs seem to be my cont weak point. I'm talking 30+ min climbs.

I got this one that takes me 50 min to do on avg. I'd like to see it around 40 min at some point. It doesn't have to be this month, but the fall this year would be killer.

I wish I could get out more on them long climbs. I can maybe get one a week. So, fire up the trainer.  

What type of* trainer *workout works best for long climbs? 

I have a good base and can complete 60-100 mile rides in the 16-18 mph range.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Steep or more of a false-flat? Regular slope or not?

You need endurance so long rides... but I like to do some slow-cadence, high resistance long intervals, especially early in the season, really helps develop power for long, steep, grind type of climbs. For less steep long climbs, I try to go with a much higher cadence but still do some long intervals. That's very simple, basic but... I mix those up with some sweetspot training and 'short hard intervals into longer, a bit less hard intervals' and just riding for fun...


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

Dan Gerous said:


> Steep or more of a false-flat? Regular slope or not?
> 
> You need endurance so long rides... but I like to do some slow-cadence, high resistance long intervals, especially early in the season, really helps develop power for long, steep, grind type of climbs. For less steep long climbs, I try to go with a much higher cadence but still do some long intervals. That's very simple, basic but... I mix those up with some sweetspot training and 'short hard intervals into longer, a bit less hard intervals'...


The grade is 4-10% Not too hard. I can do it seated all the way, if needed. I like to mix it up by standing. Although, that seems to throw off my pace.

So, 2 x 30 low cadence intervals?


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## trunkz22 (Sep 12, 2008)

I don't know about 30.... I would at least do resistance at 60ish RPMs at the lowest IMO.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

trunkz22 said:


> I don't know about 30.... I would at least do resistance at 60ish RPMs at the lowest IMO.


I think (or hope) he meant 30 minutes...

I'm not a trainer and I don't race much nowadays but on a trainer, you'll die a slow death by doing 30 minutes at the same pace. Not that it's hard, it's just too boring IMO. I'd go outside on the bike for such long intervals (well, for everything if possible but...).

If it must be on a trainer, I'd probably do 3x20min or 4x15min with max 5min easy spining between... it will be easier to keep the motivation and it will allow you to go a tad harder.

You should gradually increase the length (longer intervals but I'd go for more repetitions) or the load in a 3 week block (always good to train hard 3 weeks max, then have a recovery week). I like to add criss-cross type of intervals into the last week of a block where you add short hard intervals into your long intervals. For exemple, if you do 3x20min, go hard as you would for the 20min but each 3-4 minutes, go very hard for a few seconds, 15-30sec. It's quite efficient to improve in many situations on the road but it also makes long intervals much more fun to do, more bearable on a trainer.

Other tips, try to change what you do from a block to the next, otherwise your body will get used to your training and will kinda reach a 'plateau' and will slow down progress. At the start of a season, I will favor staying on the saddle, especially for low RPM long intervals, it will also stengthen your back, get you a stronger base to push harder later.

From block to block, vary your trainings, be creative and follow how you feel too, as time goes, gradually rise the effort as you shorten the intervals but vary your sessions, keep it new and interesting. I like to keep at least one day per week for a long ride, not structured but ride hard. A group ride with strong riders is a good idea but you can also do long solo rides and try to push yourself but have fun. On recovery weeks, keep a long ride but keep it easy, that's a good occasion to ride with slower friends, a significant other or kids... If going easy is too boring on recovery weeks and days, try to focus on your pedal stroke, be smooth, do one-legged drills or spin-ups or just get concious of your stroke...

Remember to rest and recover, not just a week after each three weeks but between hard trainings.

All the above worked well for me and I climb pretty good on most types of climbs (good trainings or natural, I don't know). Some ideas I took from trainers who helped me but we are all different so dont be afraid to change and try stuff, especially between blocks. Change is good for the body, the mind and you'll get to know what works best for you. I mix road, mtb and do some dirt road rides just to have some change.

Okay, I'll let others chime in here.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

Thanks Dan,

I did mean 30 min. Low cadence to me is 60-75 rpms. Any lower and my knees start to hurt and the movement feels "unrefined".

It is tough to stay motivated for 20-30 min. I have a few CTS dvds that have 20 min blocks. I also dabble in video editing. So, I will splice some things together to make some workouts.

I like the idea of putting a short burst in those 20 min blocks. You ever notice there's always some short 15% section that always pops up when climbing? 

I wish I had more natural talent on climbing long. I can hit the short stuff with good power and consistency. However, when you have to sit in and pace it up the hill, I start to falter.

Thanks for the ideas!!





Dan Gerous said:


> I think (or hope) he meant 30 minutes...
> 
> I'm not a trainer and I don't race much nowadays but on a trainer, you'll die a slow death by doing 30 minutes at the same pace. Not that it's hard, it's just too boring IMO. I'd go outside on the bike for such long intervals (well, for everything if possible but...).
> 
> ...


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## Urb (Jul 19, 2010)

My coach has us doing builds based on heart rate. Starting at a given heartrate, maintaining for a give time then increasing the zone by increasing resistance. Cadence stays the same regardless of heart rate and we repeat the process 5 times. Typically 5 minutes per zone but up to 10 minutes so far into this training schedule.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Yes, those intervals into intervals are great to be able to accelerate even when you're already going pretty hard. I was told to include those when training for mountain bike and cyclocross racing actually (where the pace vary a lot more than on the road) but I find it useful even on the road (great on less regular climbs but also to attack, follow attacks or counter attack friends or competitors).

Also, on long climbs, I often see people starting too fast then gradually slow down. It's a good idea to start the climb a bit more conservatively (not too much if you are time trialing the climb though) then go faster as you go.


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## plx (Mar 28, 2011)

30 minutes slow cadence is a lot i think
ivan basso does this:

With 4 weeks to his 2nd goal (TdF), Basso spends 2 weeks on Passo San Pellegrino. This period enables him to recover, concentrate and refine his form. In this month his training isn't too hard: endurance workouts less than 5 h; intensity below lactate threshold; focus on strenght works. This training strategy is necessary for him at this﻿ moment of his season. When the weather at the pass is bad, he works on indoor trainer.

A typical indoor training session is as follow:
h warmup; then strenght/muscular endurance repetitions (his coach -Aldo Sassi- called them 'SFR'): 5 min @340-360W (Basso's LT power is about 420W), 60 rpm, the gear is something like 53x12, about 160 bpm + 5 min recover, light and nimble. Total volume of exercise: 45 to 60 min (i.e. 9 to 12 reps). At﻿ the end, 15 min easy as cooldown.

In this way, Basso scores 2 h in the morning session. In the afternoon, if it doesn't rain, Basso rides out; else, he trains indoor (another 60 to 90 min).
Basso's longest indoor training session is 4h10' in a row... spent paying attention﻿ to his power meter to be sure that his work suits perfectly his requirements.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

plx said:


> 30 minutes slow cadence is a lot i think
> ivan basso does this:
> 
> With 4 weeks to his 2nd goal (TdF), Basso spends 2 weeks on Passo San Pellegrino. This period enables him to recover, concentrate and refine his form. In this month his training isn't too hard: endurance workouts less than 5 h; intensity below lactate threshold; focus on strenght works. This training strategy is necessary for him at this


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## PoorCyclist (Oct 14, 2010)

ziscwg said:


> I wish I had more natural talent on climbing long. I can hit the short stuff with good power and consistency. However, when you have to sit in and pace it up the hill, I start to falter.
> 
> Thanks for the ideas!!


Same here, I can rank within top 20% on strava on the 1-2 mile climbs. But 4 miles+, 30 mins, 60 minutes climbs I fade quite a bit and rank very average.

So.. you can't just go out and ride these rides and get better?

Ignoring any consequences, I personally find I had to push a higher gear to get more speed, but I can't really do it after 20 minutes.


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## CyclingVirtual (Apr 10, 2008)

Well if you want to simulate climbs on a trainer, the Tacx Fortius is probably one of the best.
Only warning I have doing this kind of effort is to watch your knees on the turbo.
Dont overdo it.


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

Long climbs are from a physiological standpoint really just like doing a time trial. They are all about sustaining your threshold or just above your threshold. So long intervals are best, say 10min or 20min intervals at near threshold. Using a powermeter on longer climbs is very useful as you will often find yourself riding too hard on steeper sections and tiring out early without a powermeter. A powermeter allows you to dial it back on steeper sections and keep the pace on the flatter sections.


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