# 2001 v 2002 year V107 Meraks



## MERAKMAN

Hi all I'd appreciate any help at all with this...

On investigation my newly purchased 2002 Merak has some significant differences to the 2001 Merak I used to own. Both are made of the V107 alloy, but the 2002 model has the word RACE in red, written over the top of the V107 wording, which is stated on the Dedacciai metal badge stuck on the seat tube, near the bottom bracket. I don't recall the 2001 model having the RACE wording on. Other differences are:

1) 2002 Merak appears to have a larger diameter seat tube than 2001 Merak. 2002 seat clamp says 35.4 (or something 35mm anyway) which would mean it would take a seat post of about 31.6 I think. Could anyone tell me wot size seat post their 2002 Merak takes please? The 2001 model definatly took a 27.2 standard seat post size.

2) 2002 bottom bracket appears larger than in 2001 and misses the De Rosa name stamped into the top of the bottom bracket (on the left hand side, as looking from behind the frame) It has it stamped underneath the BB.

3) 2002 seems to have a larger diameter down tube than 2001 model, especially as it meets the BB (which may explain number 2 above)

4) 2002 Merak chainstays appear taller and larger than 2001 models stays.

As I say, I no longer have the 2001 Merak so the comparsion is all from memory, but I'm pretty sure about the differences. Does anyone have a 2001 Merak to share a comparsion with please? Or indeed any knowledge of changes from the 2001 Merak to 2002 Merak?

Kind Regards


----------



## De Rosa UD

my own Merak is from 2002. size 57 regular:






As being a total De Rosa obsessed man, im very interested in such details like seat tube diameters, stamped details, weights and so on.

All I know is:

1.) 4.) early Meraks (2000, the first of 2001) had slightly different chain stays. More round at the BB area.
Seat Tube diameters have allways been 27,2 seat post measure, 31,8mm FD clamp diameter. Only the Meraks from march/april 2002 till the Eurobike had larger diameters with 31,6 or 32,4. But only the Meraks with size starting or larger than 57 regular because of greater stiffness. The following model Dual was made of Deda EM2 tubeset an had allways the larger seat post measures. 
With the stamped name it was like this: they made the early one with it stamped on the left side beside seat tube. Later ones got it underneath because of greater stability (side stamped models sometimes got cracks on it). Last production models didn't have any of that stamping.

2.) Bottom bracket size was the same all the time. The only variation was thickness of paint.  

3.) Deda has changed tubeset dimensions during the years. Down Tube got slightly (about 4 mm) wider when it comes to BB.


Kind regards,
Thomas


----------



## MERAKMAN

Thank you very much for the info and the pics. I can relate to your obession of De Rosa frames and find it interesting that there were so many changes to the Merak between 2001-2003; the end of it's production. A few questions please:

I noticed your Merak is interesting in that it doesn't have the standard Matt blue/black colour, but has a gloss finish. Did you have this done especially after purchasing, or was this bought like it from the factory?

When did Deda change the down tube to 4mm wider? I think my Merak may have this feature, but without another to compare it with, its hard to say. 

About the seat tube diameters; you mentioned the larger diameter frames were only produced from March/April 2002 to Eurobike, in frame sizes 57cm and above. Did you mean they were produced only to the time of the Eurobike show, of 2002? Why were they only produced in such a short period of time and why revert back to 27.2mm seat post size after the Eurobike? BTW Mine was produced in May 2002 according to De Rosa and has either a 31.6 or 32.4 (still to check, but definatly not 27.2mm), frame size 52cm slope.

The stamped De Rosa logo: it does make sense to me why they moved it; due to cracking of the thinner metal. Though you say the last production models didn't have the stamp at all, even underneath the BB? From which time would they be missing the stamp and why did they obmit it? 

Also, regards to the V107 'RACE' tubing, which mine has: do you know how long this was produced by Deda for the Merak and does this relate to the larger diameter seat tubed (possibly larger down tube?) Meraks you mentioned, produced from March/April 2002 to the Eurobike show?
I can see yours lacks the 'race' wording on your V107 'badge' on the seat tube. Could you tell me which size diameter your seat post is and do you know which month in 2002 yours was produced?

Sorry about all the questions; I really appreciate your help with this, thanks again


----------



## De Rosa UD

I bought that frame this year from Flarer in northern Italy. Don't know why the frame isn't painted in the so-called soft paint finish. After buying i thought: lets get it to an airbrush-artist and make it in matte finish. but as this bike is my bike for training on (nearly) all weather its easier to clean with bright finish. and finally the blue colour looks really nice in the sunshine.  Seat tube diameter is 27,2mm, outside 31,8mm.

Don't know, when exactly Deda changed their tubeset. Those information are quite hard to find if your not a framebuilder making lots of frames every month. A further problem to find out when De Rosa changed using the new tubeset is that they had lots of pre-cut tubes in factory which they used before taking the new ones. But it must be some time around spring 2001 as I've seen only 2000s Meraks with thinner more round down tube but some 2001s with new more edged down tube and some with the old down tube.

32,4mm seat tube diameter: they made them form sping (march/april) 2002 to Eurobike 2002. as mentioned: only in bigger sizes for greater stability. after eurobike they made Merak's successor the Dual. The Dual has 32,4mm seat post inner diameter on all sizes.

All other Meraks have 27,2mm seat post diameters. Don't know why the changed that at the end of Merak's production. Maybe they ran out of the thinner ones and say: "ah come on! we don't have many seat tubes in store, lets take the new ones and tell the clients that it is better for them"  rrr: 

they ommited the stamping on BB shell because of lower costs. Successor hasn't this feature too.

don't know what the "race" means. Maybe those frames are just for racing and don't last many miles. 


One thing to know about De Rosa is that they're only 21 people there and italians too! So the don't make standardized products like Trek or Specialized. The make every frame on it's own and every frame is different. Even if you order 2 frames, same model, same size, same coloure they're different! (this has been on earlier colnagos too). 
So everything is in a fluent process and the built the frames with things they have in store. It's more important for them that the frameset labeled as a Merak from a certain year is in the mood of the Merak photographed in the catalogue of a certain year. But it is never exactly the same as in the catalogue. THAT is the way they make their frames and I think it is OK. If you tell an artist to paint a picture in a certain way he allways makes it in his own way.

Kind regards,
Thomas

P.S.: As I work in a bike shop I could label my frame as whatever I want: have seat tube badges form V107, EM2, Black Soul, Fire, etc.


----------



## MERAKMAN

Hi Thomas

Thanks again. I'm interested to know about when they ceased producing the Merak, because I have a 2003 De Rosa brochure with the Merak and Dual in. You say the 32.4mm seat post Merak's were made from Spring 2002 to Eurobike (September) 2002. What size was the post, in the larger frame sizes, after this time?

As mentioned mine was made in May 2002, is a size smaller than a 57cm (its a 52cm Sloping, with 56cm top tube) and definatly has a seat post size larger than a 27.2mm. So I was wondering where mine fitted in to all this?

One other thing you mentioned, is that De Rosa makes their frames in Italy. This is quite an area for discussion at the moment and I wondered how sure we can be about this? I know other famous Italian frame builders have out-sourced production, but with De Rosa it is not clear. They are either very good at keeping quiet about where their frames are made, or are genuinely producing in Italy still. I really want it to be the latter...

Are you based in the UK? I'd be interested in obtaining some metal frame badges for my other De Rosa's; Dual and Team, which came without them.


----------



## De Rosa UD

i made a mistake. the Dual was the successor of the famous UD frame (I have that too) Successor of the V107-Merak was the new hydro-formed Merak in 2004. I forgot the last year when meraks have been made.

the last meraks look like this:




I'll watch the production next year and check out if they still have frame assembly desks (don't know the english word. I mean this: 




Dual frames (the old ones made of EM2) had special "UDual" badges. Newer Dual HF ones come without badges.
Team frames come without badges.


----------



## MERAKMAN

Hi thanks again for the pics, the name of the desk is called a 'Jig' I believe. It amazes me how such a small number of people, as you mention 21 workers at De Rosa, can produce around 7,000 frames a year and have a big holiday too..

My thoughts on origin of production for 2009 frames, collected from research and talking to people in the bike trade are:

King 3: front triangle and rear stays, made in far east by Mizuno and shipped to Italy to be bonded together and painted

Idol: made in Italy by carbon wrap and mitred tubes.

Neo Pro: made in Italy.

Avant: made in far east by Mizuno allegidly

Merak Hydro and Team: now made in far east from 2006 onwards.

Corum & Neo Primato: made in Italy

Titanio XS & Ti2: made in Italy

All frames finished and painted in Italy.

Kind Regards


----------



## smokva

> Team frames come without badges.


I have '04 Team and it has a badge. Will take a shot when I get home.


----------



## De Rosa UD

MERAKMAN said:


> Hi thanks again for the pics, the name of the desk is called a 'Jig' I believe. It amazes me how such a small number of people, as you mention 21 workers at De Rosa, can produce around 7,000 frames a year and have a big holiday too..
> 
> My thoughts on origin of production for 2009 frames, collected from research and talking to people in the bike trade are:
> 
> King 3: front triangle and rear stays, made in far east by Mizuno and shipped to Italy to be bonded together and painted
> 
> Idol: made in Italy by carbon wrap and mitred tubes.
> 
> Neo Pro: made in Italy.
> 
> Avant: made in far east by Mizuno
> 
> Merak Hydro and Team: now made in far east from 2006 onwards.
> 
> Corum & Neo Primato: made in Italy
> 
> Titanio XS & Ti2: made in Italy
> 
> All finished and painted in Italy.
> 
> Kind Regards


Jap, that's about to be correct. Merak hydro-forming might be made in Asia, but you can have that frame made to measure too which speaks for beeing made in Italy, at least the custom frames. Team frame can be made to measure too.

painting by Docar


EU laws claim that products are beeing made where it gets to the status usable for the final consumer. in reality some frames claim to be made in italy but actually the raw frame is made in Asia, then shippe to Italy where the pop in cable stops and paint the frame. don't know if this is the case with Avant frames as the don't claim where it is made.


----------



## MERAKMAN

Hi, thanks for the link to the De Rosa paint shop, I can see some De Rosa Vega's in light blue there..

Look at the label on the Hydro Merak's seat tube; from 2006 on it reads: Design by De Rosa Lab. Now that's a hint if ever I saw one! Designed in Italy YES, but made, NO, not anymore. It was made in Italy when it first came out in 2004 & 2005 I believe. This would coincide with Pinarello and Colnago's move to Asian production; the Galileo was out-sourced to the far east in 2005 a year ahead of Colnago's Arte and Primera. I spoke to some guys at the cycle show in London at the weekend and they suggested alot of Italian production went out to the far east 3 years ago, so this all coincides with it. So if your De Rosa's made before this, then it's the real deal, as they say..

Also reading the new 2009 De Rosa catalogue, there are hints again at where production is. For the Neo Pro says its made with Italian Artisan construction, as it does with Corum and Neo Primato and Titanio models; but the King3 it doesn't mention, nor the Merak and Team. Nor it does with the Idol, but it has said elsewhere on the website that it is made in Italy and your picture with Idol frame on a jig would back this up.

I am more sure of the Idol made in Italy, than the King. As I say I believe King is only finished in Italy but made in two sections in China. They would need 10 rather large moulds in the De Rosa factory for the King and don't believe they have the capacity for this. You could check on this when you go to the factory next year?

I agree with you that the custom frames are probably made in Italy....


----------



## MERAKMAN

smokva said:


> I have '04 Team and it has a badge. Will take a shot when I get home.



I've seen that badge before, does it have a metallic blue background, with chrome silver lettering on? I may be wrong about that, but I from what I remember it's a nice badge.. 

Work does suck doesn't it? Want to ride my bike all day........


----------



## smokva

This is the badge on my, not so clean, Team '04 frame that was made when they were made in Italy for sure. It is 2004 model that was built in late '03 or early '04 and serial number PA404 indicates that.


----------



## smokva

MERAKMAN said:


> Hi, thanks for the link to the De Rosa paint shop, I can see some De Rosa Vega's in light blue there..
> 
> Look at the label on the Hydro Merak's seat tube; from 2006 on it reads: Design by De Rosa Lab. Now that's a hint if ever I saw one! Designed in Italy YES, but made, NO, not anymore. It was made in Italy when it first came out in 2004 & 2005 I believe.


Badges on tubes tell about tubes being used to build frames, and usually nothing about where the frame itself has been made.
So "designed by De Rosa" badge could mean that tubes are not standard and being specified and designed by De Rosa and made by someone else (Deda in this case). It won't tell you anything about were that tubes weld into a frame in Italy or far east later.
Of course, frames without badges are an indication that they were built with cheaper tubing that can usually be found on models from far east.


----------



## MERAKMAN

smokva said:


> This is the badge on my, not so clean, Team '04 frame that was made when they were made in Italy for sure. It is 2004 model that was built in late '03 or early '04 and serial number PA404 indicates that.



Cool pics Ante. Very Paris-Roubaix alike! Yes thats the fellow, I've seen that badge on a matt blue/black Team from 2004, wish I had one on mine..

Yours will definatly be an Italian made frame, our friends at De Rosa starting out-sourcing (I believe) from 2006. Out of interest, how do you feel about the out-sourcing of Italian frame production and the fact that they try to keep it quiet?


----------



## MERAKMAN

smokva said:


> Badges on tubes tell about tubes being used to build frames, and usually nothing about where the frame itself has been made.
> So "designed by De Rosa" badge could mean that tubes are not standard and being specified and designed by De Rosa and made by someone else (Deda in this case). It won't tell you anything about were that tubes weld into a frame in Italy or far east later.
> Of course, frames without badges are an indication that they were built with cheaper tubing that can usually be found on models from far east.


Hi I see your point. Though the 'Designed by De Rosa Lab' that runs along the length of the Hydro Meraks seat tube, was only added on the 2006 models until present. Pre 2006 Hydro Meraks didn't have it written on, so that may indicate production was out-sourced then. Maybe in a quiet way De Rosa are saying, the Merak is now only Designed by De Rosa now, but not actually made by them. Its a theory, but as I mentioned, it would coincide with Pinarello's and Colnago's out sourcing of production around 2006, which is openly admitted by Colnago and these companies do tend to follow each other on certain trends..

I'm not sure I agree with your last point Ante. My 2004 Hydro Merak and my 04 Dual, don't have a badge. Infact I've never seen a Hydro Merak with a metal plate badge. If anyone has a 2004 onwards Hydro Merak with a badge plate, please let us know.._ I'm pretty sure they are made in Italy. Anyone have any thoughts on whether the badge indicates (or perhaps vindicates) Italian production. You've got me thinking now......


----------



## smokva

MERAKMAN said:


> Cool pics Ante. Very Paris-Roubaix alike! Yes thats the fellow, I've seen that badge on a matt blue/black Team from 2004, wish I had one on mine..
> 
> Yours will definatly be an Italian made frame, our friends at De Rosa starting out-sourcing (I believe) from 2006. Out of interest, how do you feel about the out-sourcing of Italian frame production and the fact that they try to keep it quiet?


Even if we don't like it we have to be honest and say It is something they had to do to stay in touch with all those generic brands like Giant, Scott, Trek, Cannondale.... If not done so De Rosa, Colnago, Pinarello and others would soon disappear from global cycling world map. I just hope brands like De Rosa will still have few exclusive made made in Italy models for likes of us that will pay even if it is costly. Also I hope they well clearly and with no doubts say which frame is made where, but maybe I'm asking too much.
Here we have an saying: "I'm not rich enough to buy cheap"....not sure is it a applicable in this case, but sure I'll always wish my frame is done in Milano rather than who knows where.


----------



## smokva

MERAKMAN said:


> Hi I see your point. Though the 'Designed by De Rosa Lab' that runs along the length of the Hydro Meraks seat tube, was only added on the 2006 models until present. Pre 2006 Hydro Meraks didn't have it written on, so that may indicate production was out-sourced then. Maybe in a quiet way De Rosa are saying, the Merak is now only Designed by De Rosa now, but not actually made by them. Its a theory, but as I mentioned, it would coincide with Pinarello's and Colnago's out sourcing of production around 2006, which is openly admitted by Colnago and these companies do tend to follow each other on certain trends..
> 
> I'm not sure I agree with your last point Ante. My 2004 Hydro Merak and my 04 Dual, don't have a badge. Infact I've never seen a Hydro Merak with a metal plate badge. If anyone has a 2004 onwards Hydro Merak with a badge plate, please let us know.._ I'm pretty sure they are made in Italy. Anyone have any thoughts on whether the badge indicates (or perhaps vindicates) Italian production. You've got me thinking now...... Take care


I always thought tubes with badges are branded and without badges non branded, generic and cheap tubes. Off course I might be wrong thinking things haven't changed from times of Columbus, Reynolds and True Temper steel tubing


----------



## MERAKMAN

smokva said:


> Even if we don't like it we have to be honest and say It is something they had to do to stay in touch with all those generic brands like Giant, Scott, Trek, Cannondale.... If not done so De Rosa, Colnago, Pinarello and others would soon disappear from global cycling world map. I just hope brands like De Rosa will still have few exclusive made made in Italy models for likes of us that will pay even if it is costly. Also I hope they well clearly and with no doubts say which frame is made where, but maybe I'm asking too much.
> Here we have an saying: "I'm not rich enough to buy cheap"....not sure is it a applicable in this case, but sure I'll always wish my frame is done in Milano rather than who knows where.


Really well put Ante, I totally agree with your point of view. I too think DE ROSA should do the right thing and say exactly where their frames are made, like Colnago have done.Otherwise it may come back and bite them, because if people hear that their Italian frame isn't Italian made, they may just go to Cervelo, Giant, Trek etc and save themselves some money.I too would hate to think we could loose De Rosa if this happened.:cryin:


----------



## slamy

Yes, when the tubes are made a special shape or size then they put designed by DeRosa. Back in the day when all bikes used columbus or reynolds steel tubes, all bike shapes were basically the same. Colnago did some tinkering with tubing with their crimped tubes which led to their gilco (star) shaped tubes. They had a special decal on them too, like made for colnago by columbus. As for Derosa, all their bikes are made in their shop. Especially the non carbon ones. I have a DeRosa 2002 Merak, and when I bought it, I was told by one of the Derosa boys that the Merak was the one frame that Ugo actually brazed (im not saying he made everyone, only that if he decided to work on a bike it was a merak). Not sure he does anymore work on the frames, but back in early 2000's he was still brazing away.


----------



## MERAKMAN

slamy said:


> Yes, when the tubes are made a special shape or size then they put designed by DeRosa. Back in the day when all bikes used columbus or reynolds steel tubes, all bike shapes were basically the same. Colnago did some tinkering with tubing with their crimped tubes which led to their gilco (star) shaped tubes. They had a special decal on them too, like made for colnago by columbus. As for Derosa, all their bikes are made in their shop. Especially the non carbon ones. I have a DeRosa 2002 Merak, and when I bought it, I was told by one of the Derosa boys that the Merak was the one frame that Ugo actually brazed (im not saying he made everyone, only that if he decided to work on a bike it was a merak). Not sure he does anymore work on the frames, but back in early 2000's he was still brazing away.


So you have a 2002 Merak? I as I say I've recently bought one and noticed some differences between it and the 2001 Merak I once owned. Does your frame have V107 'Race' tubing, as indicated on the seat tube badge? Also which size seat post does yours take? Trying to find out exactly what the differences are between the 2001 standard V107 tubed Merak and the 2002 V107 RACE tubed one, but I don't have a 2002 De Rosa brochure ...


----------



## slamy

Yes mine takes that big seat-post size. I can't remember the exact size it's like 35mm give or take. I believe it does say Race on the metal badge, but I'll double check when I get home. In fact Im about 99% sure it says race, but since I never owned an earlier model not sure what they said. I love this bike. I also own a colnago ct-2 (titanium), and after riding that all last year I switched back to the merak. As crazy as it sounds, I find the Merak more comfortable.

I doubt you will see many brochures about this bike (2002) i don't think they made this variant more then a year or two before they went to that funny shaped hydro-tubed Merak. My guess is they went to a bigger seat tube to strengthen the bike some. As I recall there is some sort of weight limit on it: 185-195 lbs or something. I know the UD had like a 165 weight limit.


----------



## MERAKMAN

Yes the UD was appartantly a bit too light for some! Great paint job though. Reckon your right about strenthening it up for the Alessio team of 2002. Must have done some good because they won a few stages of the Giro and Vuelta that year on the Merak. The weight limit is 90kg btw.

Do find your Merak more comfortable because it fits you better than the CT1?


----------



## slamy

Yes the badge says Race in script red writing. Both the Derosa and my Colnago are 56c-t. Derosa's are more of a laid back ride. More comfortable at distance riding while the Colnago is a little quicker type handling bike. For some reason I feel better on the Derosa even though they are set up the same.


----------



## MERAKMAN

Hi It must be down to the geometry. I've always been tempted to get a Colnago (they look fantastic I think), but those I've ridden I don't ever feel as part of, nor as comfortable on. So I stick to what I know fits me the best..De Rosa


----------



## smokva

slamy said:


> Yes the badge says Race in script red writing. Both the Derosa and my Colnago are 56c-t. Derosa's are more of a laid back ride. More comfortable at distance riding while the Colnago is a little quicker type handling bike. For some reason I feel better on the Derosa even though they are set up the same.


Strange...from what I can see on geometry tabs, Colnago should have more relaxing geometry with it's very short top tubes.
With long top tubes De Rosa is more aggressive because it forces you to more aero positions.


----------



## slamy

actually the shorter the top tube usually the steeper the angles on the rest of the bike. Longer top tube more relaxed angles and more of a stable ride. Colnagos have shorter top tubes then derosa's so you end up taking a longer stem, hence making it feel a lot more lively and quicker handling. Im not an expert frame builder but this is what ive heard.


----------



## smokva

As I see it, and I might be wrong, for best handling you don't have big choice of stem lenghts, they should be somewhere in 11-13 cm range with 12being the best. Everything outside that range will affect handling. Longer stems, 15 cm for example, will not make your bike handle more lively as the radius between head tube centre and circle at which handlebar moves is bigger....you need bigger movement for the same effect...that is not more lively. Also imagine opposite...there is no stem (it is 0 cm) and the smallest movement will turn your wheel firmly...that is more lively, but not very manouevrable.
From what I can conclude...to have absolutly the best handling you need 12 cm stem, and frames should be choosen to have top tubes of lengtt that will fit you perfect with 12 cm stem.
If you do so with De Rosa and Colnago, you always end with lower (seat tube c-c) De Rosa if you want same effective top tube lengths. Effect of angles on effective top tube length (horizontal distance between bb centre and head tube centre where the stem is clamped is what is really important) is not that big as you think..angle differences don't compensate more than few mm.
Longer and shorter De Rosa, as I said before, should have lower centre of gravity and be more stiff because of smaller triangles. From what I can conclude those facts will bring you more lively ride in theory. That's how I see it but I might be wrong.
In practice, if both are properly fit and made of same materials/parts, I don't think there is a noticable difference.
Also I must say I have an bike with 15 cm stem...it can hardly turn how slow responding it is...not lively at all.


----------



## ant75

*Which Derosa?*

Hi all
Can anyone identify this model for me? I'm guessing its an 02 merak? 
Any help would be appreciated. I bought this bike a couple of years ago as a commuter. The previous had the bad re-spray done.
thanks


----------



## smokva

ant75 said:


> Hi all
> Can anyone identify this model for me? I'm guessing its an 02 merak?
> Any help would be appreciated. I bought this bike a couple of years ago as a commuter. The previous had the bad re-spray done.
> thanks


I have never seen an De Rosa frame in that colors. To be honest that doesn't look like original paint to me.


----------



## ant75

Thanks for the reply.
Yes the bike has had a new paint job. Hard to understand why someone that is why I've had so much trouble identifying it. 
thanks


----------



## smokva

ant75 said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> Yes the bike has had a new paint job. Hard to understand why someone that is why I've had so much trouble identifying it.
> thanks


Those al de rosas were all more or less identical except paint and material, so it could be Merak, Planet, Team...
Check for serial number under the BB, it should have 2 letters and 3 digits if it is De Rosa at all...than you can mail someone at De Rosa to check it out and tell you exactly which one it is.


----------



## MERAKMAN

Wonder what the previous owner was thinking? It looks like either a 2002 or 2003 Merak, as the tubing is abit more beefy on these models compared to the 2001 Merak. If so it uses V107 Dedacciai 'race' tubing. I thought it may be a Team model, looking at the down tube, but it has the Mizuno Shark forks, which were a standard fit on the Meraks. 

Best way to check for sure is contact De Rosa themselves at info.derosa.it and give them the serial number, stamped under the bottom bracket. It should have two letters and three numbers to it. You may have to move the cable guide to have a look under it for the number, but thats no hardship. Good luck, let us know if you discover anything. May I suggest a respray by De Rosa in Italy, in a proper De Rosa colour, like the one in the link below?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120308781764&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:GB:1123


----------



## smokva

MERAKMAN said:


> Wonder what the previous owner was thinking? It looks like either a 2002 or 2003 Merak, as the tubing is abit more beefy on these models compared to the 2001 Merak. If so it uses V107 Dedacciai 'race' tubing. I thought it may be a Team model, looking at the down tube, but it has the Mizuno Shark forks, which were a standard fit on the Meraks.


Correct me if I'm wrong...that badged hart on fork was only put on forks that were shipped with Meraks. If I'm right this should indeed be Merak.


----------



## MERAKMAN

smokva said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong...that badged hart on fork was only put on forks that were shipped with Meraks. If I'm right this should indeed be Merak.



The other De Rosa models that had the heart logo on the forks are the Titanio and Corum and the UD, Vision and Vega models, infact the only models in 2001 that didn't have the heart logos on the forks were the Neo Primato and the Wind!


----------



## De Rosa UD

Jup.

The badged fork is the Mizuno MC20. De Rosa replace the original "M" badge with their own "cuore" (heart) badge.


Vega frame had the badge too but on a different fork. Some Planet models too (but only one year, the rest came with Deda fork)


----------



## MERAKMAN

De Rosa UD said:


> Jup.
> 
> The badged fork is the Mizuno MC20. De Rosa replace the original "M" badge with their own "cuore" (heart) badge.
> 
> 
> Vega frame had the badge too but on a different fork. Some Planet models too (but only one year, the rest came with Deda fork)



The Mizuno MC20 'Shark' fork is one of the best forks ever made imho. I have one on my 2002 Merak and on my 2007 Team (I specced it cos I knew how darn good they are)!
 
UD, do you know what the fork was called on the Vega and Planet (love those names, wonder if De Rosa will use them again)? Yes, I think they had the badges on the forks for the 2001 season, not sure about 2002, but definatley not for 2003 according to my brochures.


----------



## De Rosa UD

That fork might be the Mizuno MA 60 CA. It has an aluminum crown but carbon steerer tube. 

The MC20 Shark got lighter through the years. Since 2003 or 2004 it was made in China (in Japan before) and then just came in at 350-360 grams cut instead of 400-420 grams cut. Have put more than 5 forks each production phase on the scale. Steerer tube stability went down slightly but if you're lighter than 80 kgs it's no problem. The working around the crown race is slightly different. I mean the slightly thicker part of the steerer tube directly coming up from the crowm.
But that's just fine-tuned differences. The difference between MC20 and MA60 is much greater.


----------



## smokva

MERAKMAN said:


> The Mizuno MC20 'Shark' fork is one of the best forks ever made imho. I have one on my 2002 Merak and on my 2007 Team (I specced it cos I knew how darn good they are)!


So they changed fork on Team frame? My 2004 model Team (actualy built in 2003) has Mizuno MA43AL fork on it.
It has carbon blades and alu steerer and crown, total weight of uncut fork is 485 g.
http://www.mizunobike.com


----------



## De Rosa UD

I think so. The most Team framesets i've seen have carbon fiber steerer tube. Maybe the switched to the other fork sometimes due to the lack of getting them.


----------



## MERAKMAN

De Rosa UD said:


> That fork might be the Mizuno MA 60 CA. It has an aluminum crown but carbon steerer tube.
> 
> The MC20 Shark got lighter through the years. Since 2003 or 2004 it was made in China (in Japan before) and then just came in at 350-360 grams cut instead of 400-420 grams cut. Have put more than 5 forks each production phase on the scale. Steerer tube stability went down slightly but if you're lighter than 80 kgs it's no problem. The working around the crown race is slightly different. I mean the slightly thicker part of the steerer tube directly coming up from the crowm.
> But that's just fine-tuned differences. The difference between MC20 and MA60 is much greater.



Dude, you know your stuff!  

So my 2002 Merak fork is different to my 2007 MC20? Also how do you know the steerer tube stability (strength?) went down, have you road tested the different forks? If so which frames were they on?

I'm 90kg and have noticed a small flex going round tight bends come to think of it, on the 2007 version.Its nothing major at all, just noticeable, I was surprised at first as I've never had this feeling on a De Rosa. I'm guessing that the area around the crown race is less dense than on the older versions of the fork, hence more flex?


----------



## De Rosa UD

MERAKMAN said:


> Dude, you know your stuff!
> 
> So my 2002 Merak fork is different to my 2007 MC20? Also how do you know the steerer tube stability (strength?) went down, have you road tested the different forks? If so which frames were they on?
> 
> I'm 90kg and have noticed a small flex going round tight bends come to think of it, on the 2007 version.Its nothing major at all, just noticeable, I was surprised at first as I've never had this feeling on a De Rosa. I'm guessing that the area around the crown race is less dense than on the older versions of the fork, hence more flex?



Tested on 2002 Merak and 2008/2009 Team.
Maybe it's good that the newer forks are less stable because frames are stiffer now.


----------



## smokva

De Rosa UD said:


> Tested on 2002 Merak and 2008/2009 Team.
> Maybe it's good that the newer forks are less stable because frames are stiffer now.


I want frame and fork to be as stiff as they can and use tyres, saddle and bar tape to set different levels of comfort.


----------



## MERAKMAN

De Rosa UD said:


> Tested on 2002 Merak and 2008/2009 Team.
> Maybe it's good that the newer forks are less stable because frames are stiffer now.


Would that be the Team 08 with the integrated seat post?


----------



## De Rosa UD

Yes. My blue Team with ISP and special painted (blue with red stripe) MC20 fork.


----------



## MERAKMAN

smokva said:


> So they changed fork on Team frame? My 2004 model Team (actualy built in 2003) has Mizuno MA43AL fork on it.
> It has carbon blades and alu steerer and crown, total weight of uncut fork is 485 g.
> http://www.mizunobike.com


Yah. I've seen a 2004 Team in matt blue/black with an all carbon fork. It was the same fork as on the Macro at the time...Though yours does have the standard fork on it 

I agree with UD. De Rosa probably run out of stock for the standard fork and used what they had around to replace it..


----------

