# What the heck happened to Talanksy?



## Ajost (May 27, 2012)

Topic says it all. I'm kinda bummed out he didn't make a better showing.

I didn't catch all of the race. Did he crash or something?

v/r

Ajost


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

He lost 2 minutes yesterday waiting for his team car after a crash and he just couldn't keep up on the last climb today.


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## harlond (May 30, 2005)

Too many crashes.


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## Skewer (Sep 13, 2011)

It's all up to Tejay. Tejay in the end will win the yellow jersey.


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## Buckwheat987 (Jul 13, 2012)

Too many crashes and I might be slammed for this...I dont think he is mentally up for it right now.

Still too inexperienced.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Buckwheat987 said:


> Too many crashes and I might be slammed for this...I dont think he is mentally up for it right now.
> 
> Still too inexperienced.


Agree and you can expand that to the whole team being pretty inexperienced. They should have let Millar go to mentor these guys.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

love4himies said:


> Agree and you can expand that to the whole team being pretty inexperienced. They should have let Millar go to mentor these guys.


I don't think he lost 10 minutes today because he is "mentally not up for it", or that "Millar needs to mentor" - like that's the problem. 

Obviously crashes are taking their toll. He was pointing to his back while climbing. It's not easy even when you are 100% healthy, and Talansky was involved in several major crashes.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

55x11 said:


> I don't think he lost 10 minutes today because he is "mentally not up for it", or that "Millar needs to mentor" - like that's the problem.
> 
> Obviously crashes are taking their toll. He was pointing to his back while climbing. It's not easy even when you are 100% healthy, and Talansky was involved in several major crashes.


Yes, I've been watching the tour, but experience does help with knowing what to do and when to do it. The whole Garmin team is pretty inexperienced at grand tours and I don't think that is helping. Talansky is a very good rider, but I think they needed somebody else there in the race to perfect their skills.


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

Speculation:
Crashed twice hard, he's probably more hurt than he (or we) realized.
First time being undisputed leader of major team, especially stressful as Garmin never operates this way.
Several (self-caused) PR snafus increasing stress and pressure.
As he's American and recently won the Dauphine, subjected to more media attention and pressure than your typical guy in 16th place.
Still a young guy, lacks racecraft and experience.

I'd say he just had a very bad day and blew up.

IMO, he's dangerous as hell now for stages. He's still fit. Pressure's now off for GC. Rest days, another day of healing. He's lost enough time that he might be allowed in a break on a hilly stage. If so, look out.

JV has been very clear that he had limited GC ambitions for Talansky this year. In a couple of years, Talansky's going to be tough as nails and experienced. He's got the right attitude and physiology.


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## Rich Gibson (Jul 26, 2013)

Looking at the circumstances surrounding many of these crashes reminds me of a sign I saw in the aircraft sign-out desk in my first squadron.

"Naval Aviation is not inherently unsafe...it is, however, mercilessly unforgiving of careless error." 

deja vu all over again.

Rich


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## Roland44 (Mar 21, 2013)

love4himies said:


> Agree and you can expand that to the whole team being pretty inexperienced. They should have let Millar go to mentor these guys.


Couldn't agree more. Millar could help a lot.


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## MoonHowl (Oct 5, 2008)

The fact he is still riding at all is remarkable.


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

Rich Gibson said:


> ...reminds me of a sign I saw in the aircraft sing-out desk in my first squadron.


They make them sing first? The navy is more fun than I thought. Is there a limitation to or a required genre?


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## pedalruns (Dec 18, 2002)

MoonHowl said:


> The fact he is still riding at all is remarkable.


I agree... The sprint finish crash was horrible. 

I hope he can get in some breaks and go for a few stage wins...


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## Rich Gibson (Jul 26, 2013)

Winn said:


> They make them sing first? The navy is more fun than I thought. Is there a limitation to or a required genre?


Thanks for finding the typo.
Rich


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

I guess Talansky was more skilled last year when he didn't crash, right? And Contador, crashing out reaching for an energy bar? Obviously needs to go back to bike handling 101. 

The fact is that to win the TDF you need some lucky breaks in addition to your abilities. All this woofing from the numb nuts in the peanut gallery about this or that rider not having the skills is comical.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Fireform said:


> I guess Talansky was more skilled last year when he didn't crash, right? And Contador, crashing out reaching for an energy bar? Obviously needs to go back to bike handling 101.
> 
> The fact is that to win the TDF you need some lucky breaks in addition to your abilities. All this woofing from the numb nuts in the peanut gallery about this or that rider not having the skills is comical.


Yes you need some luck (or I would think no bad luck), but to develop skills you need to learn from experience. I bet Contador won't be reaching for a snack bar when he's going down a hill at 60km/hr on an iffy condition road again. I bet Talansky is not going to be looking around when he's in a sprint again.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

As Horner noted, Talansky should not have been up quite that far on a field sprint. No other GC contenders were up there for a reason. Still, his intentions were good and luck was bad. Such is life as a young GC contender. Its not like any rational person thought that he would win the GC overall. He and TJ are building towards a serious GC run down the line IMHO. 

Especially once ASO re-adds a decent amount of TT kilometer back to the race (otherwise a certain Colombian will be winning).


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

The clip of Talansky shedding his jersey after the stage said it all--he could barely stand up, and kept rubbing his lower back, as he did during the stage. He was in pain.

Two hard crashes took their toll, IMO.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Hard falls like that sap you. Your body directs energy toward repairs that becomes unavailable for anything else. At the pointy end of a grand tour, that is hard to overcome.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

love4himies said:


> Yes you need some luck (or I would think no bad luck), but to develop skills you need to learn from experience. I bet Contador won't be reaching for a snack bar when he's going down a hill at 60km/hr on an iffy condition road again. I bet Talansky is not going to be looking around when he's in a sprint again.


yes he'll be reaching for a bar again. When else do you expect him to eat? Eat the picnic prepared by Riis at the bottom of the climb?


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

den bakker said:


> yes he'll be reaching for a bar again. When else do you expect him to eat? Eat the picnic prepared by Riis at the bottom of the climb?


Read the whole sentence. :rolleyes5:

And if he does it again in the same conditions and crashes again, I guess he didn't learn his lesson the first time.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

love4himies said:


> Read the whole sentence. :rolleyes5:
> 
> And if he does it again in the same conditions and crashes again, I guess he didn't learn his lesson the first time.


read the post rolleyes OMG. 
When should he eat? While climbing? it was up and down all the time. It was on a straight he was grabbing the food.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

den bakker said:


> read the post rolleyes OMG.
> When should he eat? While climbing? it was up and down all the time. It was on a straight he was grabbing the food.


I guess not going 60-70km on damp, bumpy roads because that didn't work out so well for him, did it?

Alberto Contador fractures shin in Tour de France 2014 crash, tries to keep going before dropping out | National Post



> Contador said he wasn’t exactly sure what caused the crash — which happened while he was s*peeding downhill at over 70 kph* about halfway through the stage.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

paredown said:


> The clip of Talansky shedding his jersey after the stage said it all--he could barely stand up, and kept rubbing his lower back, as he did during the stage. He was in pain.
> 
> Two hard crashes took their toll, IMO.


Back / Core pain

when the core is damaged you can't deliver power to the pedals


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

love4himies said:


> The whole Garmin team is pretty inexperienced at grand tours and I don't think that is helping. Talansky is a very good rider, but I think they needed somebody else there in the race to perfect their skills.


Garmin team is "inexperienced"? how do you figure? They have been doing grand tours forever now. You do realize they actually won Giro with Hesjedal, right?
They need "somebody else" in the race? You mean for GC? Like who?

It's much more simple. Talansky is on good form but crashing doesn't exactly help. There's only so much his body can take between crashing and the first week TdF had. Nothing about it is mental. It's not like if only Talansky had some therapy he could get on a bike and win the whole thing. 
It's not about team being "inexperienced at grand tours" either. Nonsense. The only mistake he really made was trying to sprint in Nancy. But Talansky just won Dauphine in dramatic fashion over Contador, Froome and Nibali and this is big league stuff. With some luck he will get podium, maybe next time.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

love4himies said:


> I guess not going 60-70km on damp, bumpy roads because that didn't work out so well for him, did it?
> 
> Alberto Contador fractures shin in Tour de France 2014 crash, tries to keep going before dropping out | National Post


yes you can use both emoticons and bold face, congratulations. of course you never said where to eat. All descending is either fast or through twisty curve. No change to eat uphill. So again, again: where then?


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

55x11 said:


> Garmin team is "inexperienced"? how do you figure? They have been doing grand tours forever now. You do realize they actually won Giro with Hesjedal, right?
> They need "somebody else" in the race? You mean for GC? Like who?
> 
> It's much more simple. Talansky is on good form but crashing doesn't exactly help. There's only so much his body can take between crashing and the first week TdF had. Nothing about it is mental. It's not like if only Talansky had some therapy he could get on a bike and win the whole thing.
> It's not about team being "inexperienced at grand tours" either. Nonsense. The only mistake he really made was trying to sprint in Nancy. But Talansky just won Dauphine in dramatic fashion over Contador, Froome and Nibali and this is big league stuff. With some luck he will get podium, maybe next time.


The Garmin team CURRENTLY at the Tour, not the WHOLE Garmin team.

Ummmm, yes, quite knowledgeable about Ryder, please see avatar pic. 

Winning at the Dauphine is not the same as a grand tour. Nibali and Contador misjudged Talansky and Froome was in pain. Not saying the Talansky doesn't have the physical capabilities to win, but needs some experience and self control to know when he should attack and when he should hold back and save something in the tank.

Also, following the Tour, I know Talansky has crashed and is in pain, but I really feel the crash in the sprint was partially his fault and he should have kept himself protected, being the GC hopeful for Garmin and not gotten involved in that sprint. That's the "inexperience" I'm talking about. 

I really think David Millar could have been a great help to the team. He's got a good track record for doing his job at the Tour and he's been there, what, 13 times or so. He was pulled out at the last minute.


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## J24 (Oct 8, 2003)

*Correction*

Talansky's gone to the car; that's too bad

Talansky's out of the car and back on his bike


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

He made it. What a guy!


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

55x11 said:


> Garmin team is "inexperienced"? how do you figure? They have been doing grand tours forever now. You do realize they actually won Giro with Hesjedal, right?
> They need "somebody else" in the race? You mean for GC? Like who?
> 
> It's much more simple. Talansky is on good form but crashing doesn't exactly help. There's only so much his body can take between crashing and the first week TdF had. Nothing about it is mental. It's not like if only Talansky had some therapy he could get on a bike and win the whole thing.
> It's not about team being "inexperienced at grand tours" either. Nonsense. *The only mistake he really made was trying to sprint in Nancy.* But Talansky just won Dauphine in dramatic fashion over Contador, Froome and Nibali and this is big league stuff. With some luck he will get podium, maybe next time.


Sprinting a sprint with the likes of Sagan, Kitel, Renshaw, etc, as contenders, gave him zero chance at winning.. and then only to crash by his own fault... is not inexperience? It was a hard crash in which he was lucky not to have broken any bone.


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

I was curious so I looked. He is still in 44th place which means he is ahead of over 100 riders. Nothing to be ashamed of there...


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## cmdrpiffle (Mar 28, 2006)

MoonHowl said:


> The fact he is still riding at all is remarkable.



The Fact that he's received unimaginable press attention and accolades is unforgivable. 

MISC


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## Rich Gibson (Jul 26, 2013)

cmdrpiffle said:


> The Fact that he's received unimaginable press attention and accolades is unforgivable.
> 
> MISC


That statement is confusing. Is the fact unforgivable? The press giving him the attention unforgiveable? Or are you somehow criticizing him for his action?

Rich


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

love4himies said:


> The Garmin team CURRENTLY at the Tour, not the WHOLE Garmin team.
> 
> 
> Winning at the Dauphine is not the same as a grand tour. Nibali and Contador misjudged Talansky and Froome was in pain. ...
> ...


Talansky made a mistake in the sprint but not by being up there. He was protecting himself by being up there, a good GC riders always do. Notice Contador and Froome, the two 5-star favorites, are both out of the race. Sometimes it goes wrong. A judgment of a pro's experience cannot be made in one day or even one year. This race is never clean and crash free, that's just the way it is.

I hope he can continue and recover. If he is able to do the latter, I expect to see him "ride angry". That could be the best day/days of the race to watch.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

Yes, it was a mistake. But I wouldn't call Talansky (or entire Garmin team) inexperienced. Navradauskas wore pink jersey and is quite a veteran. Ben King is former US Pro Champion. Van Summeren won Paris Roubaix. Slagter won two stages at Paris-Nice this year and placed in top 10 in Wallone and LBL. 
They may still be young guys but have more experience than anyone else that age. Attributing their problems to inexperience is ridiculous.

By these standards, BMC and TeeJay made a lot more mistakes (Oss and Van Avermaet driving peloton in Nancy when TeeJay was off the back?). Sagan - what an inexperienced guy - keeps screwing up sprints he should have won (by my count at least 4 sprints, including today should have been his). Cavendish - what a rookie mistake, resulting in a crash. Froome, Contador - same. amateurs. Can't even keep their bikes up straight.

And Simon Gerrans - he keeps sprinting way from the back, from 12th or 14th, when it's like 50m to go and everyone is at full speed. Talansky should have been further back, but Gerrans, if he thinks he is such hot-shot sprinter, well he should have been in top 5 if he wants to get a piece of the action, not sitting way in the back and then zig-zag from far right all the way to far left, crashing people everywhere just so he can get his 5th or 7th place.

I can see why Talansky thought he had a chance. It was a small group and Van Avermaet and Sagan went and nobody could chase them - so perhaps he thought he had a shot, assuming Sagan and everyone else was tired and at their limit. In retrospect it was a mistake, but you can't fault the guy for trying, especially after Trentin win. 

I don't mind assigning blame to Garmin (not quitting the stage today was another mistake, in my opinion). But there are many mistakes to go around. Garmin is not making more than any other team and I see no evidence of them being so foolish at their strategy as to call them inexperienced.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

Talansky proved how tough this sport is! He climbed back on his bike, sucked up his pain, and said something like, "[email protected] it. I'm finishing this damn race." Anyone else notice how his form got more fluid the closer he got to the finish? All mental. He found a rhythm and stuck to it to the bitter end. What an inspiring performance of grit, tenacity, toughness, that few sports exhibit!

The reason one camera followed Talansky was because that's where the story was in this stage. People were applauding his heroic effort coming in 5 minutes before the time cut off. Awesome performance of a champion!


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## bongo fury (Apr 21, 2014)

Yes, its Called RED BAG OF COURAGE. 

for all those who are negitively commenting about his falls, about you all go ride inthe tdf andcrash get up and continue. Since you have not means u have no room for any negative comments. Andy has more guts than u all. Enough said! !!!!!!


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

bongo fury said:


> Yes, its Called RED BAG OF COURAGE.
> 
> for all those who are negitively commenting about his falls, about you all go ride inthe tdf andcrash get up and continue. Since you have not means u have no room for any negative comments. Andy has more guts than u all. Enough said! !!!!!!


I'm not disagreeing with you but rather magnifying your statement. He crashed twice by all the accounts I have heard. I also understand the decision to continue was left up to him not influenced by the team. The man certainly had a lot of courage with him today.


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## F.P. (Jul 26, 2005)

I was a fan of Talansky yesterday but today I am a BIG fan of his. Today's drama made for some great TV and he really showed some of the mental strength the "experts" say is necessary for someone to win Le Tour. Talansky 2015!


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Sadly he has withdrawn.


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## BacDoc (Aug 1, 2011)

Being in the bio mechanical physio biz I must say that his crashes were extremely traumatic. One of the slo mo clips I saw revealed considerable impact trauma. Some times post accident X-rays will not show hairline fractures of vertebra or pelvis due to compressive force of inflammation.

I suspect in the days to come we will hear about the extent of his injuries and the effect on his performance.

Valiant effort and a great example of grit and determination racing with excruciating pain. He learned a lot and put up a great fight in this race. Much respect for Andrew!


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

BacDoc said:


> Being in the bio mechanical physio biz I must say that his crashes were extremely traumatic. One of the slo mo clips I saw revealed considerable impact trauma. Some times post accident X-rays will not show hairline fractures of vertebra or pelvis due to compressive force of inflammation.
> 
> I suspect in the days to come we will hear about the extent of his injuries and the effect on his performance.
> 
> Valiant effort and a great example of grit and determination racing with excruciating pain. He learned a lot and put up a great fight in this race. Much respect for Andrew!


The team announcement says "acute sacroiliitis" resulting from the accidents--makes sense, since it started to look as if it were his lower back/hip region that was bothering him. And an "acute respiratory infection". Yikes!


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

paredown said:


> And an "acute respiratory infection". Yikes!


Not surprising, his immune system was probably working overtime trying to heal his wounds along with a lack of sleep.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

F.P. said:


> ...he really showed some of the mental strength the "experts" say is necessary for someone to win Le Tour.,,,


Indeed. Now he needs to start showing the smartness and judgement that is also required. I'm betting it will come with experience. Besides building some misguided admiration (IMO), about all he accomplished yesterday was likely exacerbate his injury and prolong his recovery.


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## respro100 (Jul 15, 2014)

That was riveting to watch. Great drama. Two weeks ago I could give a rip who Talansky was. He's a true champion and I will always be a fan now.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

looigi said:


> Indeed. Now he needs to start showing the smartness and judgement that is also required. I'm betting it will come with experience. Besides building some misguided admiration (IMO), about all he accomplished yesterday was likely exacerbate his injury and prolong his recovery.


Cringeworthy as it was seeing him struggle, he did eventually find form. From that point on, I knew he would make it. If he was exacerbating his injuries, his form would have gotten worse, seems to me. 

I crashed coming off Sugarloaf Mtn. MD, once. Broke my damn collarbone. There was no ambulance to take me to ER. I rode my bike home, 45 miles. The harder the effort, the less painful the break was. I was surprised, to say the least, that I actually felt better by the time I got home. :yesnod:


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## Bob Wade (Jun 22, 2011)

*At least on his terms, in part...*



love4himies said:


> Sadly he has withdrawn.


Yes, but not until he accomplished what he had to, at least in his mind. He paid his team the highest compliment that he could, finish that stage, then retire! He is pure champion in my book. :thumbsup:


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## proclaimer888 (Jul 24, 2010)

Fredrico said:


> Talansky proved how tough this sport is! He climbed back on his bike, sucked up his pain, and said something like, "[email protected] it. I'm finishing this damn race." Anyone else notice how his form got more fluid the closer he got to the finish? All mental. He found a rhythm and stuck to it to the bitter end. What an inspiring performance of grit, tenacity, toughness, that few sports exhibit!
> The reason one camera followed Talansky was because that's where the story was in this stage. People were applauding his heroic effort coming in 5 minutes before the time cut off. Awesome performance of a champion!


Agree Fred!! Was watching the ending with my wife and she summed it up, kinda, if you remember "Tin Cup".....nobody will remember who won the _____ (fill it in) but they will remember ______Talanksy.


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## ti-triodes (Aug 14, 2006)

Some nice touches yesterday. Phil and Paul didn't say anything for about a minute and just let it play out when Talansky was sitting on the guardrail. That made it more heart wrenching. And the fans who stayed to cheer him on were great. 

Talansky showed real panache by finishing and probably picked up a lot of new fans around the world. Hopefully he recovers soon.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

ti-triodes said:


> Some nice touches yesterday. Phil and Paul didn't say anything for about a minute and just let it play out when Talansky was sitting on the guardrail. That made it more heart wrenching. And the fans who stayed to cheer him on were great.
> 
> Talansky showed real panache by finishing and probably picked up a lot of new fans around the world. Hopefully he recovers soon.


It was heart wrenching to watch. 

JV has been getting some flack about allowing him to continue. They thought he should have forced him to stop, but I think that would have been against Talansky's moral belief.


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