# Ultra-torque Crank bolt washer breaking



## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

Broke my second one, the first time I figured I had exceeded the torque limit so I put all the subsequent ones on with a proper torque wrench. The ones torqued to the lower end of the spec (less than ~55Nm) have all come loose on me. When I re-tighten closer to 60Nm, the washer breaks. I should add that they only break after maybe 12-15 uses, which I guess could be the service life of the washer, but it's annoying nonetheless. 

I don't want to get into a pedantic discussion about accuracy of wrenches and their uses, what I really want to know is if anyone has found a washer substitute? A new bolt/washer is over $20, so if it comes to it I'll start punching out some washers out of stainless shim stock I have laying around. I measured ID/OD as 14.25/19.75, I haven't found anything metric or SAE close to that size.


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## tka (Jun 11, 2014)

Toronto Cycle shows some 15.8 ID 19.8 OD 1.5mm thick Ti washers. You might want to contact them to see if they might be willing to make a 14.25 ID 19.8 OD washer.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

Decided to make my own out of 316 stainless M10 washers which I discovered had the right outer diameter. 20 minutes of handiwork and I have three of these:










I sanded them perfectly flat, and they are almost twice as thick as the stock washer so I doubt they'll break. FYI the inner diameter has to be closer to 15mm to get around the threads.


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## graeme1 (Feb 23, 2007)

If my memory is still ok, then the original washer isn't flat but sort of conical (don't know the engineering terminology), some kind of spring washer I guess.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

graeme1 said:


> If my memory is still ok, then the original washer isn't flat but sort of conical (don't know the engineering terminology), some kind of spring washer I guess.


I don't think so. Pics of the original:










The Ti one:










I examined my broken one pretty closely and it does seem work-hardened. It's very brittle. The ones I made are fairly soft by comparison so I'm not worried about damaging anything.


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## graeme1 (Feb 23, 2007)

I just had a look a washer and it is not flat, tried to take a photo but it doesn't show so well.
From a description of ultra torque -
Bolt: a 10 mm bolt travels through the assembly and gets tightened down to 42Nm with traditional bicycle tooling. It is installed with a spring washer that loads the joint between the two bicycle crankset half-axles to create single solid and rigid spindle with the spring exerting a pressure 600kg/1300lb.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Cool making your own washers.

Your problem has been sticking in my mind for several days. I don't think I've ever seen a flat washer break in normal use, or normal installation torques. Your problem sure is puzzling. It seems weird that at the lower end of the torque range it would come loose.

One question - are you using a thread locker on the bolt? I believe Campy specs Loctite 222 (purple) ?


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

ibericb said:


> Cool making your own washers.
> 
> Your problem has been sticking in my mind for several days. I don't think I've ever seen a flat washer break in normal use, or normal installation torques. Your problem sure is puzzling. It seems weird that at the lower end of the torque range it would come loose.
> 
> One question - are you using a thread locker on the bolt? I believe Campy specs Loctite 222 (purple) ?


Ahhh.... well don't I feel stupid! I was following the Campy video:

Assembly and removal of the Campagnolo Ultra Torque crankset - Tutorial videos for 10- and 11-gear mechanical drivetrains Campagnolo

Thread locker it is. Thanks, that should solve my problems I think.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

DrSmile said:


> Ahhh.... well don't I feel stupid! I was following the Campy video:
> 
> Thread locker it is. Thanks, that should solve my problems I think.


Seems they left that out of the video, but I looked and they include it in the Tech doc and User Manual too (almost as a fine print thing).


Maybe that will help with lifetime / fracture, as well as keeping tings in place.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

I serviced all my UT cranks today to add purple thread locker. I measured all five OEM washers and they have the same width across the washer (within 10 microns or 0.01mm) of 1.50mm. I'm not sure how it's supposed to "spring," but they all were flat. This was for a wide variety of cranks, ranging from 10 speed Record to 11 speed Chorus, Record, Speed, and Super Record. I also took pictures but it doesn't show well either... The washer I made seems to work fine for now, I will update if anything changes.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

I've got 4 UT cranksets on the go. Multiple swaps. Never used a torque wrench. Never used a threadlock. Never had a problem. I'm like an UT whisperer.


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## turbomatic73 (Jan 22, 2004)

DrSmile said:


> Ahhh.... well don't I feel stupid! I was following the Campy video:
> 
> Assembly and removal of the Campagnolo Ultra Torque crankset - Tutorial videos for 10- and 11-gear mechanical drivetrains Campagnolo
> 
> Thread locker it is. Thanks, that should solve my problems I think.


I've never broken a washer, but I have had mine come loose if I don't tighten to the high end of the spec and use locktite. I think it says use purple...I had blue in my toolbox and used it. 4k miles since...no issues.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

bikerjulio said:


> I've got 4 UT cranksets on the go. Multiple swaps. Never used a torque wrench. Never used a threadlock. Never had a problem. I'm like an UT whisperer.


Same here. Whisper.


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## 1Butcher (Mar 15, 2011)

Working in the automotive repair business for over 30 years [not bragging, more ashamed] some technicians just break things more than others. No one knows why, they just did. Bad Luck Schleprock?

Whispering never worked for me, but if we are talking about pry bars and hammers, then I can install just about anything [or have fun doing it],


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## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

Anyone ever ordered ultra-torque bearings and one of them is very tight-turning? I went ahead and installed anyway figuring it might loosen up with some usage, and would take a couple of weeks for replacements to come in anyway. Also as others have noted the non-drive side bearing isn't snug against the seal. These were Campy replacement parts; I may try to get generics next time. I remember someone posted the generic bearing number- I'll search for that.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

Bill2 said:


> Anyone ever ordered ultra-torque bearings and one of them is very tight-turning? I went ahead and installed anyway figuring it might loosen up with some usage, and would take a couple of weeks for replacements to come in anyway. Also as others have noted the non-drive side bearing isn't snug against the seal. These were Campy replacement parts; I may try to get generics next time. I remember someone posted the generic bearing number- I'll search for that.


Who let you out of PO?

Bearing is 6805N (the N signifies 6mm thickness vs the usual 7mm).

Yes, the bearings are "tight", that's normal.


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## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

headloss said:


> Who let you out of PO?
> 
> Bearing is 6805N (the N signifies 6mm thickness vs the usual 7mm).
> 
> Yes, the bearings are "tight", that's normal.


Thanks Headloss. It was weird- the drive side bearing turns easily by hand; the other I must grip it very hard to get it to turn. I will order some of those 6805N bearings.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

Bill2 said:


> Thanks Headloss. It was weird- the drive side bearing turns easily by hand; the other I must grip it very hard to get it to turn. I will order some of those 6805N bearings.


Should definitely both feel the same... maybe it was deformed when it was pressed on.


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## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

headloss said:


> Should definitely both feel the same... maybe it was deformed when it was pressed on.


Could be. I used the Park driver that fits perfectly round the shaft etc. I'll test ride it today and order replacements either way.


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## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

Went for a little 10 km spin and the crank felt same as ever, neither harder nor easier to turn, nor smoother nor rougher. When the new bearings come in I'll change the non-drive side just in case it's a problem.


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## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

Ok, pulled off the non-drive side crank arm and removed the new bearing. I was planning to replace it but it felt nice and smooth once removed. So I reinstalled it and didn't tap it down so far toward the rubber seal as last time. Turns easily and smoothly. I have the new set at hand if needed but will try using this twice-installed installed bearing for now.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

Just an update on this, I just did the end-of-season service on the crank and the washer worked 100% all season, and the bolt stayed put. Considering the fix was free and I don't have to buy any $20 Campy special bolts I'm happy.


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## 1Butcher (Mar 15, 2011)

Now what are you going to do with the other 2 washers you made?


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

1Butcher said:


> Now what are you going to do with the other 2 washers you made?


New biz opportunity - _custom, individually hand-crafted washers for Campy crank bolts_. 

The only thing missing is they aren't made in Italy. Still, I'm sure there is a market that will pay $20 per piece for those.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

1Butcher said:


> Now what are you going to do with the other 2 washers you made?


If you break one, drop me a msg and I'm happy to mail one to you.


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## 1Butcher (Mar 15, 2011)

I would just be happy to put some miles on my bike. Way too busy this year.


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