# 2011 Motobecane Le Champion Titanium with Sram Rival



## SilentAssassin

I was wondering what you guys thought of this titanium bike at bikesdirect for $1600:










Frame

Geometrically enhanced, butted 3/2.5 Titanium with replaceable derailleur hanger, 2x H2O bosses Click Here for Image Gallery (coming soon)

Fork

AeroCarbon SL High Modulus Monocoque 3K Carbon Fiber with 1.125 inch Aluminum Steerer

Headset

FSA IS2 Sealed Bearing Threadless 1.125 inch

Derailleurs

SRAM SRAM Rival 10 Speed (20 Spd total) front and rear

Shifters/Levers

SRAM SRAM Rival 10 Speed STI (20 Speed total), Carbon Composite

Brakes

SRAM Rival, Black anodized, aluminum calipers, cartridge brake pads

Hubs

Mavic Aksium Race QRM sealed bearings

Rims

Mavic Aksium Race black anodized aluminum, UB Control Machined Sidewalls

Crank/BottomBracket

SRAM Rival 50/34T, 110BCD, OCT Aluminum Arms / SRAM GXP Sealed Bearing Bottom Bracket

Cassette/Chain

SRAM OG1070, 10 Speed 11-28T / KMC X-SP 10 speed Chain

Saddle

Ritchey PRO road

Seatpost

Ritchey PRO Aluminum 27.2mm x 300mm

Stem

Ritchey PRO Aluminum 1.125 inch steerer, 31.8 clamp

Handlebars

Ritchey PRO Butted Aluminum Ergo Bar 31.8mm

Pedals

Road Clipless Pedals included

Tires	Vittoria Rubino PRO 700x23c, Presta valve tubes
Color	Brushed Titanium Click Here for Image Gallery (coming soon)
Sizes	48, 51, 53, 56 and 59cm Click here for Geometry Sizing Chart
(Center of BB to Top of SEAT TUBE / Seatpost Clamp/collar - just like Trek Madone)

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Seems like a good deal for what you get. Is the frame crap though? It is titanium. I've tried to find threads and reviews on this bike but have had no luck. Also how heavy is the frame?


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## backinthesaddle

Decent frame and fork
Decent part spec
Decent price

...waiting for the poo-poo party to start...


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## SilentAssassin

My choices are limited. I was looking for a chinese carbon frame initially. But even if I went that route, a complete 2011 sram rival group is about a $1000, the chinese carbon frame with fork, handlebar, stem, etc. with paint would cost about $600 from the chinese sellers on ebay. Then I still would need a saddle, pedals, cables, an other little things, not to mention the wheels would cost me another $200 or so...which will bring me into the $2000 range. Just seems like I can save more this way, but from my research I have heard a lot of bad things about bikesdirect. I also saw a picture of a aluminum motobecane frame broken in half. So is the quality there with BD?


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## joyride42

I rode a Sprint last year and it worked fine. I try not to abuse my bikes, but I never really had a concern of it breaking. Hell, you see everyone riding carbon and Im guessing they have a much higher failure rate. 

I parted my bike out and just got a new frame. Im just going to go the slow upgrade route with it.


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## raymond7204

Bicycling magazine just did a decent a review of the Le Champion SL which I believe is the same frame sold by Bikes Direct. 

I'm considering one of these myself to replace my broken carbon bike.

Ray


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## RC28

SilentAssassin said:


> My choices are limited. I was looking for a chinese carbon frame initially. *But even if I went that route, a complete 2011 sram rival group is about a $1000,*


You're definitely looking in the wrong places. A complete Rival group can be had for 700ish VERY easily.


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## mikeyp.1

I bought one-like it! Frame seems like it will last forever Rival group excellent.Bike not light out of box with heavy axiums-17.8 lbs for 53-but smooth and comfy.


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## SilentAssassin

RC28 said:


> You're definitely looking in the wrong places. A complete Rival group can be had for 700ish VERY easily.


Can you please give me a link please, thanks. I've searched ebay and what not, and the complete group seems to be around $1000.


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## St.Zu

http://cycleclubsports.com/pd-sram-rival-2010-8pc-build-group.cfm


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## RC28

SilentAssassin said:


> Can you please give me a link please, thanks. I've searched ebay and what not, and the complete group seems to be around $1000.


How about just typing "SRAM RIVAL GROUP*" in the Ebay search box? ;-)

Plenty of results for that particular query.


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## canthidefromme

Just do it.


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## pdh777

It's a good deal - providing it fits.


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## SilentAssassin

I'm guessing the frame is junk, so I think I'll just stick with the original plan and go the chinese route. Also what if they send me an aluminum frame instead of titanium? Is BD trustworthy? How will I know it's not an aluminum frame they send me?


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## BuenosAires

Looks like a pretty good deal to me. Alot of Ritchey parts, I would ride it. BD seems to have been around for awhile, so i would trust them before buying a Carbon frame on ebay. 

It's light enough, and with an upgraded wheelset, it would probably be pretty sweet! Just my .02.


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## cru_jones

SilentAssassin said:


> I'm guessing the frame is junk, so I think I'll just stick with the original plan and go the chinese route.


Over a full season on my Moto Ti mtb frame with no problems, a couple of crashes too, I'd buy it again. Not quite how sure you could label the ti frame junk and the one from some guy in hong kong not? I'm not saying the chinese one is or is not junk (because I don't have any first hand knowledge to make that decision).


SilentAssassin said:


> Also what if they send me an aluminum frame instead of titanium?


Then you call and tell them, they send you the right bike and a carrier will pick up the wrong bike. How would you know if the chinese seller sent you an alum frame wrapped in carbon fiber? BTW, those do exist.


SilentAssassin said:


> Is BD trustworthy?


Assuming you mean for shipping you what you paid for then, yes. This I can answer with first hand knowledge. How do you know the chinse seller is or is not?


SilentAssassin said:


> How will I know it's not an aluminum frame they send me?


Compare it to the picture of what you ordered. I believe there is a _giant_ one posted in a thread around here somewhere.


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## SilentAssassin

Man, what if half of you guys in this thread are shills! I don't know.


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## Italianrider76

SilentAssassin said:


> Man, what if half of you guys in this thread are shills! I don't know.


Dude....you come here seeking advice regarding this bike, people respond quite honestly and then you go on suspecting that half of them could be shills?


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## battaglin

Italianrider76 said:


> Dude....you come here seeking advice regarding this bike, people respond quite honestly and then you go on suspecting that half of them could be shills?


+1. if you don't trust anyone other than yourself, why bother asking? on the web even.


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## jkuo

Seriously? You're wondering if guys with more years on the forum and posts than you are shills? I think you may have some trust issues. You're in the chinese carbon frame thread too wondering what happens if a frame fails and complaining about the possibility of paying for return shipping for a warranty. At some point you just have to pull the trigger. If you're that concerned about all this stuff, just go to your LBS and buy whatever they have. No worries about paying for shipping then or wondering if they sold you an aluminum frame instead of titanium. 



SilentAssassin said:


> Man, what if half of you guys in this thread are shills! I don't know.


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## cru_jones

You have a low post count; most of the true shills have very low post counts. You post up a picture of a bike, it's specs and price....and then wonder if everyone who replies is a shill?


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## Doolab

SilentAssassin said:


> I'm guessing the frame is junk, so I think I'll just stick with the original plan and go the chinese route. Also what if they send me an aluminum frame instead of titanium? Is BD trustworthy? How will I know it's not an aluminum frame they send me?


You must be a terrible guesser then if you can't tell a naked, brushed titanium bike from a painted aluminum bike. The differences are quite stark.,,

Also,
+1 on your trust issues... The inter webs should not be your venue for experience research with such a disposition, unless you like starting flame wars and that by definition would make you a troll.


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## SilentAssassin

I don't know, that might be one way BD advertises. 

Is the motobecane titanium frame about the same weight as lynskey frames? How much do they weight?


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## TWB8s

Would I buy it if I was in your shoes? Yes. Would I worry about BikesDirect selling you a lemon? No. Do I have any relationship with BD? No. Do I know of anyone who has a bike from BD? Yes. Are they happy with the bikes? Yes. Would I prefer the Ti Motobecane over my Seven Axiom or Lemond Ti? Maybe, send me a 58cm and I 'll let you know.


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## peetsjunkie

Italianrider76 said:


> Dude....you come here seeking advice regarding this bike, people respond quite honestly and then you go on suspecting that half of them could be shills?


hahah this entire board is a bunch of shills..... i'm looking at drinking the koolaid this week

i think it's funny. Bet half these poopoo partygoers are LBS owners or something.


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## SilentAssassin

cru_jones said:


> You have a low post count; most of the true shills have very low post counts. You post up a picture of a bike, it's specs and price....and then wonder if everyone who replies is a shill?


Just want some real responses. Not BD Shill responses that's all. I read that BD is notorious for shilling on forums since they do not market their products the traditional way that other companies do.


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## cru_jones

And how would you (or I, or anyone else) know for sure?


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## bobthib

I have 2 BD bikes both Motos and I will say that they are good values for someone who is mechanically inclined and has some bike wrench knowledge and knows what size to buy. I am very happy. I would not recommend BD of the average buyer. They do not have the savvy or sense to be able to assemble and adjust the bike (but my most recent bike was very well adjusted from the factory)

A well informed buyer can get a good deal at an LBS if they shop around and negotiate. It all depends on what you want, need, and are willing to do. I love BD bikes because I an save tons of $. I'm not so excited for other friends who are not mechanically inclined and bike savvy since they will have to hire some one to do the work. 

Then you have the warranty issue. Most or many will not need or not bother to use the offered warranty. Your local LBS will give you (should give you) good warranty service. When it come to BD warranty, it really sucks. Be ready to wait, wait, wait. Customer service is almost non existent. If you are not able to send in a defective part and wait for them to SLOWLY replace it, it is not your choice.

So am I a BD shill? Decide for your self. I will buy another BD bike as I believe they offer a good value for me. I do most of my own wrenching and so far I've been able to put up with their sh!++y warranty service as I have spares to get me by. For most people BD offers an opportunity to a nice bike at a great price, limited by how much you have to spend to bet the bike assembled, adjusted and fit. If you have to do a warranty claim you will pay a price in frustration as they are not very customer oriented. I think they will do a "fair" job of implementing warranty claims, but they are slow, difficult, and frustrating. But then, that can be said about most bike mfgs, according to some.

Judge for yourself.


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## peetsjunkie

bobthib said:


> Then you have the warranty issue. Most or many will not need or not bother to use the offered warranty. Your local LBS will give you (should give you) good warranty service. When it come to BD warranty, it really sucks. Be ready to wait, wait, wait. Customer service is almost non existent. If you are not able to send in a defective part and wait for them to SLOWLY replace it, it is not your choice.
> 
> Judge for yourself.


Good to know thanks for your honest opinion. (Of course, I have a low post count so i'll be called a shill). hahha


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## dolomoto

I've got about 500 miles (51 miles just yesterday) on my Le Champion Ti (Ultegra). It's a fantastic bike. Arrived well-packed, I had it on the road about 30 minutes after opening the box.

The welds are perfect and the entire bike is well finished. I really like the ride qualities of titanium and the Ultegra drivetrain operates as expected. 

There are two things I don't like about it: I can't get the stickers off (but haven't tried that hard), and they were sold out of the higher spec Ti framed bike.

YMMV.


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## SilentAssassin

dolomoto said:


> I've got about 500 miles (51 miles just yesterday) on my Le Champion Ti (Ultegra). It's a fantastic bike. Arrived well-packed, I had it on the road about 30 minutes after opening the box.
> 
> The welds are perfect and the entire bike is well finished. I really like the ride qualities of titanium and the Ultegra drivetrain operates as expected.
> 
> There are two things I don't like about it: I can't get the stickers off (but haven't tried that hard), and they were sold out of the higher spec Ti framed bike.
> 
> YMMV.


Thing is with BD I am skeptical. Lots of people are skeptical especially since you only have one post. You got a pic of your bike?


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## dolomoto

SilentAssassin said:


> Thing is with BD I am skeptical. Lots of people are skeptical especially since you only have one post. You got a pic of your bike?


Conspiracy Theory? Google "dolomoto".

Anyway...

A few weeks ago at the Armillary at Troup Square..










I used to be a BikesDirect hater...there just had to be a catch.

But there is no catch. Great build quality, honest descriptions, easy to deal with.

YMMV.


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## martywoodman

*Silent Assasin, you are a JERK*

Signed, BD shill


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## bikesdirect

SilentAssassin said:


> Just want some real responses. Not BD Shill responses that's all. I read that BD is notorious for shilling on forums since they do not market their products the traditional way that other companies do.



There are ZERO BD Shills on this or any forum

I am the only BD poster - and I clearly label who I am in each post
thus my posts are not 'shill' posts

Bottom line on Moto Ti bikes
we sell everyone we can get
magazines love them [lots of reviews on these bikes]
owners love them; and they are the same quality as you get on Ti bikes costing twice as much or more

I am working hard to get more next year; if I can get double I will


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## giantdefy2

SilentAssassin said:


> I don't know, that might be one way BD advertises.
> 
> Is the motobecane titanium frame about the same weight as lynskey frames? How much do they weight?



Motobecane Frame 1400 grams
Lynskey R230 M Frame 1088 grams
Lynskey Cooper M Frame (cheapest model) 1225 grams

$796 price difference between Lynskey Cooper ($1595) and Moto Ti frame only ($799). If you manage to catch one being sold in the Lynskey Loft, the prices are normally around $1095!

The Moto Ti frame built in Taiwan I believe is on par with high end Ti builders, quality is outstanding and the frame looks sexy.
I was about to call BD to buy the Ti frame only, but called Lynskey last minute out of curiosity and couldnt say no. I shelled out a few more bills, hopefully its worth it.


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## south40db

"796 price difference between Lynskey Cooper ($1595) and Moto Ti frame only ($799). "
I think I have a computer problem. Mine saysth ti frame is $999


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## PlatyPius

SilentAssassin said:


> Just want some real responses. Not BD Shill responses that's all. I read that BD is notorious for shilling on forums since they do not market their products the traditional way that other companies do.


The irony of this post makes me laugh so hard that I almost piss myself every time....


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## giantdefy2

south40db said:


> "796 price difference between Lynskey Cooper ($1595) and Moto Ti frame only ($799). "
> I think I have a computer problem. Mine saysth ti frame is $999


You dont have a computer problem, just an eye for detail problem, lol. Frameset is $999, if you ask for frame only without fork, its $799.


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## south40db

Ah. Ok, didn't know about that one.


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## Peanya

giantdefy2 said:


> Motobecane Frame 1400 grams
> Lynskey R230 M Frame 1088 grams
> Lynskey Cooper M Frame (cheapest model) 1225 grams


Curious to see if we're comparing the same size, with the same measurement methods. Headset? 48cm vs 56? There really could be that much weight difference, but I'd need to see real proof before I call one much heavier.


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## mikeyp.1

*BD Ti*

I have the BD Ti bike,and while I accept the frame is 1400 g-its hard to believe another brand is 25% lighter without riding like a wet noodle.


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## giantdefy2

mikeyp.1 said:


> I have the BD Ti bike,and while I accept the frame is 1400 g-its hard to believe another brand is 25% lighter without riding like a wet noodle.


A heavier frame doesnt automatically mean its a stiffer frame. How its designed is what determines it.


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## Weav

raymond7204 said:


> Bicycling magazine just did a decent a review of the Le Champion SL which I believe is the same frame sold by Bikes Direct.
> 
> I'm considering one of these myself to replace my broken carbon bike.
> 
> Ray


Bicycling Magazine is a great publication, but I've never seen a negative review from them.


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## wreednelson

*The truth[s]*

Ok people.
Silent Assassin needs to buy a freakin' bike and quit conspiracy theorizing! 

I bought a Moto Ti Heat [Rival spec] halfway through last season. It weighs about 17pounds in 53cm with carbon cages and eggbeater pedals. It climbs great, feels great, and looks great.
1400g is right for the frame weight. This is 6 ounces of MUSCLE compared to the lightest carbon out there. I would not want a lighter Ti bike. 

I plan on riding my C'dale Jekyll until it shreds, and then I am going for a Moto Ti 29er in 2x spec. 

There is nothing wrong with these bikes. Yes I am real. And here's a picture of the Moto in my driveway to prove it!


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## Weav

That's a nice looking bike. I'm wondering if you have owned carbon bikes before and how it rides in comparison. I know you like it, but how does it ride in comparison? What you like better, what you like worse...


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## wreednelson

Yes... I have a 1993 Trek 5900. The original 16 pound production bike. It is now a single speed sub 15 pound machine. 
To compare, the Ti is more lively and firm. The carbon bike a little more splashy. The newer carbon bikes I have ridden are more firm... but still have a dead feel on the road. That is not all bad on long rides. 
The geometry of this bike is a good climbing geometry. Comfortable in or out of the saddle. 
I like all bike materials... but Ti is the ultimate in performance/weight/durability. Other materials have too much sacrifice in one of those categories. Also, Ti is easy to weld... so easy to build. It never rusts and its fatigue life is beyond my life left. I will not buy another material for a main triangle ever again.


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## Weav

That's what I hear alot these days. I would like to ride titanium sometime, I love the idea of a bike that can last literally a generation or more and look almost new with a bit of refreshing. The question I'm now considering is do you get what you pay for in titanium bikes? If I'm looking to buy a bike that will last decades why not splurge for the Lynskey or the Moots? What do I get for these higher pricepoints?


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## wreednelson

I'd say buy what you like. Moots and Linsky are awesome. If you have the budget go for it. No regrets either way. If a Moto is more your budget... pull the trigger. As long as you are riding, it is all good. If you are riding Ti... even better!


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## Mike Overly

wreednelson said:


> Ok people.
> Silent Assassin needs to buy a freakin' bike and quit conspiracy theorizing!
> 
> I bought a Moto Ti Heat [Rival spec] halfway through last season. It weighs about 17pounds in 53cm with carbon cages and eggbeater pedals. It climbs great, feels great, and looks great.
> 1400g is right for the frame weight. This is 6 ounces of MUSCLE compared to the lightest carbon out there. I would not want a lighter Ti bike.
> 
> I plan on riding my C'dale Jekyll until it shreds, and then I am going for a Moto Ti 29er in 2x spec.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with these bikes. Yes I am real. And here's a picture of the Moto in my driveway to prove it!


Beautiful bike. Did you cut the steerer tube, or is that as delivered?


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## wreednelson

It is as-delivered.
Very little assembly is required. I did mine in my living room in under an hour, including shift checks and h/l derailleur limit checks.


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## Mike Overly

Good to hear. This one's on my short list.


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## Jim311

Buncha shills in here! SHILLS!!


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## Earthpig

*Can't find specs on crankarm, stem, bar lengths*

I'd love to buy one of these (Ti Heat with the Rival group), but some important information is left out of the specs on BD.

What is the crankarm length?
What length stem and what is the C-2-C width of the handlebar?

I'm looking at the 56. Any help?


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## wreednelson

Mine is a 53cm.
The bar will not change... it is 420mm C2C
The stem may change, but I doubt it. And a new stem is so cheap in the overall scheme of things it really doesn't matter. Mine is 100mm C2C
The cranks may change, but mine are 172.5mm
You can actually call Bikes Direct and talk to a real person! : )


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## UKPFK

*so far so good.*

I have a DB bike and so far so good.


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## Garilia

wreednelson said:


> You can actually call Bikes Direct and talk to a real person! : )


That hasn't been my experience. How do you even get a phone number for them?


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## Garilia

UKPFK said:


> I have a DB bike and so far so good.


A dyslexic shill?


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## PlatyPius

UKPFK said:


> I have a DB bike and so far so good.


I have a DiamondBack, too!


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## atctimmy

Since this is my first post I'm afraid I'll be labeled a shill...




...but that is a nice looking bike. ; )


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## flatsix911

Nice Moto Jersey ... SilentAssassin avatar :thumbsup:


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## mochodurazo

well, first post here. I have to say, it looks so good the Moto Ti.

Coming from MTB enduro/all mountain, and some experience in a SCOTT speedster s30. I never rode a Ti bike. Can any one tell me how it feels?

I was looking for a scott, trek, cannondale, specialized. But after saw the prices on BD, im getting 2d toughts.

Only thing i see in BD is the lack of inventory in some models and sizes.


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## Ian45

mochodurazo said:


> well, first post here. I have to say, it looks so good the Moto Ti.
> 
> Coming from MTB enduro/all mountain, and some experience in a SCOTT speedster s30. I never rode a Ti bike. Can any one tell me how it feels?
> 
> I was looking for a scott, trek, cannondale, specialized. But after saw the prices on BD, im getting 2d toughts.
> 
> Only thing i see in BD is the lack of inventory in some models and sizes.


I really like the feel of my Moto Ti. I have not ridden carbon so cannot compare there but compared to aluminum I prefer titanium for sure. Its a softer ride. But its not too soft. You can still very much feel the road. The Moto ti bikes seem very good values and I would buy another one no problem. I might get one for my wife in the next little bit actually.


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## wfo922

New to the road bike scene. Been a mountain biker for years. 

Just wanted share my 1st road bike experience.

Bikes on my list that I test rode were Cannondale synapse carbon, CAAD 10, Specialized Roubaix, and Allez.

Ordered a ti le champ rival size 59. It showed up within 7 days. Assembled in a few minutes, did some minor drive train adjustments. The next day I went for a 15 mile test ride and was absolutely grinning from ear to ear. Bike road awesome, super smooth. Way happy with my decision.

I weigh 200lbs and stand 6'2" and bike fit great. Similar to the CAAD 10, just a little less aggressive.

The whole process with bikes direct went very smooth.


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## NTZeek

I am investigating a similar purchase and saw your thread. I don't know about road bikes, but I did purchase a fly team MTB from BD and had a good experience. I broke the frame within a few months, probably when I hit a road bump while driving my pickup with the bike in the back. The BD staff spoke with me on the phone sent a replacement frame and I had no problems thereafter (I bought a fork mount bike holder for my pickup.)
The components were all great and authentic. I moved up to a Pivot Mach 4, but kept the Avid Elixer CRs for my new bike and they still work great.
I found that BD bikes generally miss a few niceties. I like the pressfit BB on my pivot, and the DW link rear suspension, neither of which BD offer. On a road bike I would like to have BB30 and a tapered head tube. 
As I look for a road bike now I have searched all over and will probably make a repeat purchase at BD.


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## wreednelson

*Checking in after miles of Ti*

Okay, after 4,500 miles in 18 months I am still satisfied.
I could have a lighter bike frame, but it probably wouldn't be Ti.
I love it. I would buy another.


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## marcalans

So the 53cm is working out well for you? Chris at BD told me that at 5'8" and a 31.5" inseam I could go with either a 51 or 53, but I've read posts from others indicating that 53 might be a little big for someone my size. Do you mind revealing how tall you are?


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## wreednelson

Yep... the 53cm is fine. I am 5'9" with a 33" inseam while wearing cycling shoes.
The 53cm has a standover of 30.6. Get you true inseam measurement in cycling shoes by shoving a book again your crotch and measuring to the floor.
The top tube is another story. You may be too stretched out on a 53 even if you can straddle it. $50 on a shorter stem will fix that. Or vice versa all of that if you go with a 51cm. 
The key is you MUST be able to stand over the bike. The top tube length difference is only 1cm between the two and can be adjusted with stem, seatposts/setback and saddle arrangements.


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## adjtogo

I've been following this post very carefully. I am looking to buy a titanium framed bike as my expensive carbon frame cracked. I talked directly to Lynskey, but they have a backlog and won't have any Ti bikes in until 1/2/12. Yes, they are more expensive. I was looking at the R230 for $2195 for the frame only. The fork is an additional $250 if you want a carbon fork. Moots, Seven, Form, and Litespeed are all out of my price range.

So, as I was looking on ebay, I came across the Moto LeChampione for $1099 for frame and fork. I am glad I searched here for owners of this bike. Glad everyone is happy with the frame. Price is definitely a consideration for me, but quality as well. Is everyone happy with the welds?


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## wreednelson

Titanium is easy to weld. So yes... the welds look great. Ti is hard to work/cut. As a builder, that is the only drawback... and maybe tubing style available for builders are more limited. If you ask the guys at Linskey or Moots they should confirm all of the comments.


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## marcalans

You might also want to look at Planet-X ti bikes (Frames - Planet X Bikes). Their prices are competitive with BD and the bikes can be shipped from the UK at reasonable cost. Their TI bikes used to be made by Lynskey, but are now made by Van Nicholas (Van Nicholas - The Titanium Bike Company. Dutch company specializing in the design of role-specific and tailor-made Titanium frames, and hand-built bikes).

I wrote to ORA Engineering (ORA ENGINNERING CO,. LTD), the Taiwanese company that manufactures the BD TI frames, to see if I could purchase a frame from them directly, but I haven't received a response yet.


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## wooglins

wreednelson said:


> Yep... the 53cm is fine. I am 5'9" with a 33" inseam while wearing cycling shoes.
> The 53cm has a standover of 30.6. Get you true inseam measurement in cycling shoes by shoving a book again your crotch and measuring to the floor.
> The top tube is another story. You may be too stretched out on a 53 even if you can straddle it. $50 on a shorter stem will fix that. Or vice versa all of that if you go with a 51cm.
> The key is you MUST be able to stand over the bike. The top tube length difference is only 1cm between the two and can be adjusted with stem, seatposts/setback and saddle arrangements.


I am 5'10 and ride a 55 on the Century Pro. My inseam is 30.5 to 31.5 depending on how hard I push the book when measuring. If you have a long torso and short legs (I do) the standover height is not quite as important. I can stand over my bike, but just barely. The top tube touches my crotch when I get out of the saddle, etc. BUT if it were a 53 then I would have problems that could not easily be fixed with a different stem. 

Long story short my 55 is a very comfy ride, and the only adjustments I had to make was to lower the seat until my pedel motion was not over-extending my knee. After that adjustment the bike was dialed in.


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## Zeekster64

Seems as if BD is still equipping their bikes with those anatomic handlebars. Why haven't they switched to compact yet?


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## marcalans

I prefer the compacts also. It's one of the first things I'd change. Are you listening Mike?


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## PhotoJoe

Zeekster64 said:


> Seems as if BD is still equipping their bikes with those anatomic handlebars. Why haven't they switched to compact yet?





marcalans said:


> I prefer the compacts also. It's one of the first things I'd change. Are you listening Mike?


Here's my vote, too!


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## century

*BD than Chinese*

I would rather get my bike in BD than trust ebay chinese carbon frames or full bike.

At least BD is here in the USA and easy to deal with. Overseas, big problem.


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## memorymachine

can anyone confirm whether or not there is a clearcoat over the decals from this current model? i really like the bare ti look and am aware that removing the decals will void the warranty.


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## iclypso

SilentAssassin said:


> Man, what if half of you guys in this thread are shills! I don't know.


Go ask your LBS if you should buy from Bikes Direct. Be sure you speak to the proprietor.


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## flatsix911

iclypso said:


> Go ask your LBS if you should buy from Bikes Direct. Be sure you speak to the proprietor.


I know the owner of the LBS and he is fine with Bikes Direct ... he sells lots of higher margin accessories and services to new BD customers :thumbsup:


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## memorymachine

so....anyone?


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## marcalans

*Clearcoated decals?*



memorymachine said:


> can anyone confirm whether or not there is a clearcoat over the decals from this current model? i really like the bare ti look and am aware that removing the decals will void the warranty.


I have a Lynskey ti frame and there is no clearcoat over the decals. Other than polishing or brushing, my hunch is that all ti frames are left natural.  If the frame is painted, however, it is more likely that a clearcoat will be applied.


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## Summit123

*Le Champion rear triangle design*

Le Champion rear triangle design
I read about this in another post and then confirmed it myself by checking out the pics on BD's website. There is a lack of the small cross member right behind the bottom bracket(and right in front of the rear wheel) bolstering the chainstay tubes on the left and right sides. The Motobecane mountain frames all have this, as well as all the other titanium frames out there(Lynskey, Litespeed, etc). It seems like this cross member would provide additional rigidity to the frame, especially when sprinting out of the saddle. The geometry of the Le Champion has the rear wheel right up to the BB so maybe it was just a lack of room to weld this support piece. Actual owners have not reported flex in the rear triangle, but then I dont think I have come across any side by side test rides of a Le Champion and another frame with this commonly-found cross member. 

Having a lack of this cross member would theoretically place additional stress on the welds of the chainstays to the BB and possibly lead to premature failure. Any thoughts about this out there?


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## Dresden

I figured it was because the chainstays are short and because the chainstays are tapered and shaped unlike those of many titanium bikes.


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## paulfeng

Summit123 said:


> Le Champion rear triangle design
> I read about this in another post and then confirmed it myself by checking out the pics on BD's website. There is a lack of the small cross member right behind the bottom bracket(and right in front of the rear wheel) bolstering the chainstay tubes on the left and right sides. The Motobecane mountain frames all have this, as well as all the other titanium frames out there(Lynskey, Litespeed, etc). It seems like this cross member would provide additional rigidity to the frame, especially when sprinting out of the saddle. The geometry of the Le Champion has the rear wheel right up to the BB so maybe it was just a lack of room to weld this support piece. Actual owners have not reported flex in the rear triangle, but then I dont think I have come across any side by side test rides of a Le Champion and another frame with this commonly-found cross member.
> 
> Having a lack of this cross member would theoretically place additional stress on the welds of the chainstays to the BB and possibly lead to premature failure. Any thoughts about this out there?


I thought the cross member was simply a fender-mounting amenity.

Oh, I do amuse myself. My apologies to anyone whose time I have wasted.

On a serious note, I am unaware of any reports of structural failures of LeChampion Ti frames.


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## Dresden

Here's a pretty good discussion of the chainstay bridge on bikes. Jobst Brandt is the only one of the participants whose name I recognize. I'm not worried about the lack of a bridge on my Le Champ Ti.

Strength of frame without chainstay bridge


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## Summit123

Now that I know that that thing(chainstay bridge) is, thanks to Dresden, I was able to find a few more websites talking about this issue. It sounds like the take home is that the bridge does have a role in the stiffness of the CS, but it is more relevant for big riders or heavy stompers. There was another website that I couldn't find anymore, but there were many riders who did before and after rides and the concensus was that there was a very noticeable difference. 

James Huang did mention briefly about the "reinforcement" aspect of it in one of his quick reviews on a Van Nicholas Astraeus. He is a pretty knowledgeable guy in the industry so I would figure the bridge does do something.


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## Dresden

Mostly what I ran into on the web when reading about the chain stay bridge were some people saying it matters and some people saying it doesn't matter. You could be right about it being more of a concern for heavyweights. I notice that Moots sells a cyclocross bike(Gallery: 2012 Moots Psychlo-X RSL ? First Look - BikeRadar) that you can get with or without a chain stay bridge.

There's enough tire clearance on my size 53 Le Champ Ti that a chain stay bridge could have been stuck in there, but I'm still thinking the tapered chain stays probably have something to do with them leaving it out. It's tough for me to get a micrometer in there to measure accurately, but at the point of attachment to the bottom bracket shell, the stays appear to measure about 25mm in diameter which gives a considerably larger circumference than the chain stays on my steel bikes(all of which do have a chain stay bridge, btw.) I don't know the diameter of the untapered stays usually seen on titanium bikes, but they appear to be much smaller than 25mm at the point of attachment to the bb shell.


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## PhotoJoe

After reading the first post here about the lack of a bridge, it stuck in my mind. As I was surfing the other day, I noticed one of the other major manufacturers that didn't have one either. I should have saved the link, but I think it was either a Colnago Ti or maybe a Merlin that didn't have one either. Really wish I could find it again.


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## 13thcyclist

Anyone have any opinions on this bike or Ti in general for light riders like me? (<135 lbs, hovering around 126 lbs usually. I hear it's really flexy for heavier riders, but rides like a dream for lightweight hill climbers like me. Any truth to this? Or should I just be a typical modern roadie and spring (heh) for carbon?


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## lardo

I have a BD Ti bike. I don't notice any flex. I'm 150-160lbs and I ride the 48cm size frame. This Ti frame is very comfortable.


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## Sprokets

flatsix911 said:


> I know the owner of the LBS and he is fine with Bikes Direct ... he sells lots of higher margin accessories and services to new BD customers :thumbsup:


But I'll bet he would rather sell them the bike :thumbsup:


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## Bowhunter

I'm 5'9" and 185lbs, I have the Ti Heat and notice no flexing at all. My frame is a 53 with Rival groupo. I'd buy the bike again without hesitation. As for the welds, I have a good friend that is a machinist and he stated those are as nice as it gets for Ti.


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## Sprokets

So, I have had my Ultegra SL version for about a week now. I did 36 miles on it this morning and 28 miles yesterday as well as several other rides. It is fast and agile without being uncomfortable.

I upgraded the pedals to Shimano Dura-Ace (it came with some pretty respectable 105's - but I had the lighter Dura-Ace's available anyway). I have put some nicer (faster) tires on it too and also replaced the saddle to my own taste (the only partial weakness IMO). The frame and the welds are immaculate (I do know a lot about welding). This frame was made with great care by an excellent welder.

It totally rocks! I absolutely love this bike and especially all the attention that it has been getting these last few days (the brushed titanium on mine is sick - it shines like chrome or gold - and esp. after a little Flitz metal polish). 

Don't buy this bike if you have to leave your bike locked up in public places - IMO it is so pretty that it will disappear in a flash. There is no real difference between this bike and one that cost $5-7K (how is a thief to know?) - be warned.

Mine is the 59cm frame (I am 6' tall and that is nearly all legs - it is a perfect fit) and I weighed the bike at just over 17lbs. 

What a fantastic deal! One of my best ever!

Bob


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## Robert1

They seem nice, i'm looking at either the century or LC but in carbon.


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## harrypy

I'm 5 7 and 135 lbs and just got a 48 cm SL and am loving it after just a couple of 30 mi rides around Mercer Island. About 16.5 lbs out of the box w/o pedals just like the web site said. I really prefer the Ultegra over the SRAM Rival I have on my old GT road bike. I just like the way the shifters work better but that is personal preference. The shifting is smooth as silk after I tweaked the shift adjusters just a little bit. This is my second BD Ti bike and they both give a plush ride over the bumps in the road.


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