# Superhuman Armstrong - How Quickly He Forgets



## Hairnet (Dec 17, 2006)

Lance raining on Levi's parade?

"Inspired by the performances of Alberto Contador and Levi Leipheimer of the Discovery Channel team, seven-time Tour de France winner Lance Armstrong told AFP *he may change his mind and visit the last few days of the Tour*."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jul07/jul26news4

But he has been told before he is unwanted:

As he has before, Leblanc said Armstrong was discredited by charges in August in the sports newspaper l'Equipe that *he used the banned drug EPO during his first Tour victory in 1999*. 

"He was not irreproachable in 1999," Leblanc said in a speech before the route was presented. "EPO is a doping product. So this tempers and dilutes his performances and his credibility as a champion

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/10/27/sports/BIKE.php


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## bsdc (Feb 15, 2002)

Well, if it'll piss off Leblanc, I think Armstrong should go.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Yepp indeed. I think he should go. Even if it's just to piss Leblanc off.

Hey accusations once again, but it's not proven. So what? In this case I mean. Ok nevermind. This topic can go on for days...


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

Hair-IHATELANCE-net is at it again. Give it a rest.


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## cocoboots (Apr 13, 2006)

hate is such a strong word. how about "dislikes with a passion"

who cares if lance goes over to support his former teammates. It will give the french a reason to sell more papers and i'm sure he'll be booed.


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## jupiterrn (Sep 22, 2006)

Doesn't Lance now own like 50% of Discovery Team? He not going to race, he's RETIRED. I think the article was suggesting he would not be welcomed back for racing. He can go there to cheer his team on though and to congratuate any member thats up on the podium. I agree though, if it pi$$e$ off the french he should charter a jet and get right on over there.


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

It's terrible that LeBlanc wants a clean race. I mean the balls to call someone out that he thinks wasn't clean. We're talking about an American. Lance Friggen Armstrong. How dare a French guy be against him.


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## mbcracken (Sep 18, 2006)

Didn't Lance, earlier this year, say that he was going to stay away from the Tour in fear of being arrested by the French?


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

He should stay away-he represents the old generation of riders who upheld the code of silence. His treatment of Simeoni is the worst of the omerta that threatens cycling, his 'farewell' speech was an absurd take on the state of cycling. Cycling needs to put Armstrong behind, along with Ullrich, Basso, Vino and the rest...


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## Hairnet (Dec 17, 2006)

stevesbike said:


> He should stay away-he represents the old generation of riders who upheld the code of silence. His treatment of *Simeoni* is the worst of the omerta that threatens cycling, his 'farewell' speech was an absurd take on the state of cycling. Cycling needs to put Armstrong behind, along with Ullrich, Basso, Vino and the rest...



Great summation.

I agree, those who don't show any remorse and honesty should be left behind.

On the other hand, those such as *Simeoni *and Millar who confess and cooperate should be respected.


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## Hairnet (Dec 17, 2006)

jupiterrn said:


> Doesn't Lance now own like 50% of Discovery Team? He not going to race, he's RETIRED. I* think the article was suggesting he would not be welcomed back for racing*. He can go there to cheer his team on though and to congratuate any member thats up on the podium. I agree though, if it pi$$e$ off the french he should charter a jet and get right on over there.


No, the article was written after he retired. The Tour has distanced themselves from him now.


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## Hairnet (Dec 17, 2006)

wipeout said:


> Hair-IHATELANCE-net is at it again. Give it a rest.


Don't shoot the messenger.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

This is Contedor & Levi's moment........his presence would only dilute it for them.

Selfish IMO.

Len


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## DMFT (Feb 3, 2005)

Len J said:


> This is Contedor & Levi's moment........his presence would only dilute it for them.
> 
> Selfish IMO.
> 
> Len



He owns a chunk of the team & Trek. Why is it selfish? Going to support & encourage your troops is not selfish, sorry.


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## ashpelham (Jan 19, 2006)

I don't think it's selfish. If he truly has a 50% ownership in the team, that means a lot of his money is tied up in it. He has not only the right to be there, but it shows great support for those whom he has spent money on.

Who is to tell him he can't go? Certainly no one on this message board.

That being said, I agree with the comments about the "old generation" and the "code of silence". That part of pro cycling is over, and it's best to distance from all of those who engaged in it.

I even blame many of the clean riders, Jens Voigt for instance, for not becoming louder about the problem. In his defense, this is his livelihood we are talking about, and I think many of us have done things we didn't necessarily agree with to keep a paycheck coming.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*Anything......*



DMFT said:


> He owns a chunk of the team & Trek. Why is it selfish? Going to support & encourage your troops is not selfish, sorry.


that takes attention away from the accomplishments of Contedor & LL knowingly is selfish. 

His presence will clearly take attention away from them.

Hence I think it's selfish.

So what that he owns part of the team. He could be there to celebrate privatly with them....anything else is pure self grandstanding.

Len


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## bsdc (Feb 15, 2002)

Einstruzende said:


> It's terrible that LeBlanc wants a clean race. I mean the balls to call someone out that he thinks wasn't clean. We're talking about an American. Lance Friggen Armstrong. How dare a French guy be against him.


LeBlanc is the Tour Director. He needs to get proof and take appropriate action. People lost respect in LeBlanc because he just made unsubstantiated alligations.


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## bsdc (Feb 15, 2002)

Len J said:


> that takes attention away from the accomplishments of Contedor & LL knowingly is selfish.
> 
> His presence will clearly take attention away from them.
> 
> ...


I don't think anyone thinks Lance should stand on the podium with Discovery. I imagine Lance going to Paris and doing a quick interview. I imagine the cameras will catch him going here and there. I don't picture any grandstanding.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

did you notice that Rasmussen gave the lance defense as well-citing how many controls he passed. Training out of sight (in Italy with their special trainers...), racing a few tune-ups, and then showing up in July flying sounds familiar. LA's presence would only be a huge negative--the French hate him, the media even more, so how could that be good for cycling?


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## bsdc (Feb 15, 2002)

stevesbike said:


> did you notice that Rasmussen gave the lance defense as well-citing how many controls he passed. Training out of sight (in Italy with their special trainers...), racing a few tune-ups, and then showing up in July flying sounds familiar. LA's presence would only be a huge negative--the French hate him, the media even more, so how could that be good for cycling?


I don't know that Lance showing up will be good or bad for cycling. I just know Texans like pissing off the French. They're so pompous.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*Has he ever.......*



bsdc said:


> I don't think anyone thinks Lance should stand on the podium with Discovery. I imagine Lance going to Paris and doing a quick interview. I imagine the cameras will catch him going here and there. I don't picture any grandstanding.


been at a public event where he didn't grandstand?

Give me a break.

Len


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## bsdc (Feb 15, 2002)

Len J said:


> been at a public event where he didn't grandstand?
> 
> Give me a break.
> 
> Len


Yes, I imagine somewhere, at some time, at some public event, he managed not to grandstand. Every other time, he was winning the TdF, promoting his Lance Armstrong Foundation, or making some other public appearance where he was suppose to grandstand.


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

bsdc said:


> I imagine Lance going to Paris and doing a quick interview.


I think the environment over there is a bit too hot for that to be possible. not only would he detract from whoever podiums but he'd be walking into an angry hornets nest, there's still a few questions surrounding him you're no doubt aware... that said, I hope he goes. I'd love to see the sideshow and I tire of reading about him being in iowa.


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

bsdc said:


> Texans like pissing off the French. They're so pompous.


yes, I agree. texans are (demonstrably from your pic) rather pompous.


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## bsdc (Feb 15, 2002)

blackhat said:


> yes, I agree. texans are (demonstrably from your pic) rather pompous.


No, Texans are arrogant. The French are pompous.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

uzziefly said:


> Yepp indeed. I think he should go. Even if it's just to piss Leblanc off.


The whole TDF organization should be on their knees thanking Lance. If he weren't there, there would have been a German flag flying over Paris at the end of July most of his era.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

For a moment I thought you were giving Lance credit for winning WWII, seemed to be laying it on a bit thick.


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## BenWA (Aug 11, 2004)

bsdc said:


> No, Texans are arrogant. The French are pompous.


It's funny, I have two French friends (husband and wife) who lived in Houston for 6 years, and they said that they miss Texas because the people there are so much friendlier than in the PNW. I guess it's a one-way street then?


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## barrym (Jul 15, 2007)

The Discovery Channel will drop its sponsorship next year of the professional cycling team that was formerly led by Lance Armstrong, leaving the top U.S. team scrambling to find a primary sponsor. 
Article:
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstr...0C738DDDAB0894DF404482&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss


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## barbedwire (Dec 3, 2005)

*Lance is guilty*

The guilt around Armstrong is overwhelming. Many former teammates testing positive, even older teammates admitting to Armstrong's drug use. It's unacceptable for a cheat to win the Tour even once, let alone as many times as Armstrong did.


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## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

Somehow, I can't get an image of ol' Tex running up to jurnos going "interview me, interview me." I would imagine him being with the team, maybe in the car.

Having said that, I have said elsewhere that his timing (retirement) has been impecible, and IMO; he shouldn't push his incredible luck but should stay stateside. Europe is an absolute feeding frenzy right now, and they would like nothing more than to feast on him.


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## bsdc (Feb 15, 2002)

BenWA said:


> It's funny, I have two French friends (husband and wife) who lived in Houston for 6 years, and they said that they miss Texas because the people there are so much friendlier than in the PNW. I guess it's a one-way street then?


Yes, it's a one way street. You see it our way or we give you crap until you go away or agree. Usually, the crap is offered up in a relatively friendly manner.

I went to school in Portland, Oregon. My mom and a number of good friends live in Seattle, Washington. I try to visit at least once a year. I love the Pacific NW. It's so beautiful and it's like heaven most of the Summer. I even got use to the drizzle. Surprisingly, the people aren't very friendly. They're not rude. They just keep to themselves for the most part.


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## pedalruns (Dec 18, 2002)

stevesbike said:


> He should stay away-he represents the old generation of riders who upheld the code of silence. His treatment of Simeoni is the worst of the omerta that threatens cycling, his 'farewell' speech was an absurd take on the state of cycling. Cycling needs to put Armstrong behind, along with Ullrich, Basso, Vino and the rest...



EXACTLY!!! I lost all respect for Armstrong when he did this....LA was just a big bully... and as far as I know Simeoni left the sport of cycling the next year... couldn't get a contract, I wonder why? 

But thank god riders like Boonan and others that are starting to speak out, even now against Contador & JB (easy to read between the lines on his comments)!!! And also for me Greg Lemond is indeed a class act IMO, I don't blame him a bit for being a bit bitter...as his career ended in part due to the EPO era starting in the early 90's.. He has really only spoken what he thinks and been ridiculed by the LA propoganda machine. 

[Disclaimer] I am not a Lance hater, not even now.... I think he did win his tours on a level playing field and is an incredible athlete and of course all the work he has done for cancer, and the money he has brought into cycling, especially from the American market... this is probably why he will always be a 'clean rider'.... never tested positive. I just don't have much respect for him now as a rider trying to hide in the old way... 'don't spit in the soup'...


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## James OCLV (Jun 4, 2002)

California L33 said:


> The whole TDF organization should be on their knees thanking Lance. If he weren't there, there would have been a German flag flying over Paris at the end of July most of his era.


Not to mention the flag of a PROVED cheater (well, at least the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming).

It amazes me how everyone rips apart Lance while crying 'poor Ullrich".


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

SilasCL said:


> For a moment I thought you were giving Lance credit for winning WWII, seemed to be laying it on a bit thick.


Well...

We should be telling the Tour organizers-

The U.S. Army saved your butts from the Germans in WWI

The U.S. Army Air Force saved your butts from the Germans in WWII

And U.S. Postal Service saved your butts from Jan at the turn of this century- despite persistent rumors they had to use chemical weapons to do it.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

LOL! Excellent work...


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## barbedwire (Dec 3, 2005)

Lance is bigger than the Tour. He is bigger than the sport itself. The Armstrong Foundation and Nike have huge funding invested into Armstrong's image. They'll sue the pants off of anyone who speaks out against the doping going on at USPS/Discovery. They've ruined other's peoples careers. That's just the way it is. And because he overcame cancer, no one wants to believe the truth that widespread doping was going on in that team.


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## DMFT (Feb 3, 2005)

*Sooooooo............*

..........................Why didn't Vs. send top-reporter Frankie A. to interview Lance today???


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2007)

LOLZ! I think he'd rather be interviewed by the french than Frankie!


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

James OCLV said:


> Not to mention the flag of a PROVED cheater (well, at least the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming).
> 
> It amazes me how everyone rips apart Lance while crying 'poor Ullrich".


Yeah just because he wins 7 in a row and he's american. :idea:

Whatever the allegations, Lance Armstrong has NEVER tested positive and anyone can come up with whatever concoctions of facts or theories regarding why but the bottom line is that, he's never tested positive all his career. He was probably the most tested athlete in the world during his career but he has always tested negative so despite all the implications and allegations, he's still clean based on test results.

Many others caim they are clean many times but after implicating evidence, they are either tested positive or admit to it. This ain't the case for Lance so it still has to be accepted that he's never tested positive.


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

uzziefly said:


> Yeah just because he wins 7 in a row and he's american. :idea:
> 
> Whatever the allegations, Lance Armstrong has NEVER tested positive and anyone can come up with whatever concoctions of facts or theories regarding why but the bottom line is that, he's never tested positive all his career. He was probably the most tested athlete in the world during his career but he has always tested negative so despite all the implications and allegations, he's still clean based on test results.
> 
> Many others caim they are clean many times but after implicating evidence, they are either tested positive or admit to it. This ain't the case for Lance so it still has to be accepted that he's never tested positive.


he tested positive for corticoids in '99, it was later exempted with a back dated and allegedly forged TUE that would not be accepted currently. if you're content calling that a "negative test" he never tested positive.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

James OCLV said:


> Not to mention the flag of a PROVED cheater (well, at least the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming).
> 
> It amazes me how everyone rips apart Lance while crying 'poor Ullrich".


Yeah just because he wins 7 in a row and he's american. :idea:

Whatever the allegations, Lance Armstrong has NEVER tested positive and anyone can come up with whatever concoctions of facts or theories regarding why but the bottom line is that, he's never tested positive all his career. He was probably the most tested athlete in the world during his career but he has always tested negative so despite all the implications and allegations, he's still clean based on test results.

Many others caim they are clean many times but after implicating evidence, they are either tested positive or admit to it. This ain't the case for Lance so it still has to be accepted that he's never tested positive.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

He owns part of the team, is friends with several riders and backs the team up 100% so he has every right to be there at the Champs-Elysees to celebrate with his buddies.

I'm sure he might get interviewed and he would say "It's Contador and Levi's day today so give it to them" or the like. He's not being selfish. He's showing his support as a close friend and part team owner and fan of the team.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

blackhat said:


> yes, I agree. texans are (demonstrably from your pic) rather pompous.


Insecure would be be a better analogy


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## bsdc (Feb 15, 2002)

Apparently, Texans are very secure. Lance showed up in France. He's not grandstanding. The French police haven't arrested him. He seemed pretty secure in confident in his brief interview. The sky isnt' falling. All seems to be going well. But there is one more day left.


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## lookrider (Dec 3, 2006)

texas? pfffft....don't mess with texas.....lmao. Our vaunted CIC comes from (gulp) texas.

Seems those texans, LA, GWB, would want to keep a lower profile but they apparently have no shame.

I'd much rather go to Paris, Bordeaux,Cognac than any city in Texas.


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## TheDon (Feb 3, 2006)

You guys forget that texas has an inferiority complex. They need to be loud otherwise people might remember that texas is still not even half the size of Alaska.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

TheDon said:


> You guys forget that texas has an inferiority complex. They need to be loud otherwise people might remember that texas is still not even half the size of Alaska.


Exactly, Texans have to continually tell everyone how great it is there...lest someone figure out it really is a broiling hot dust bowl filled with extras from "Deliverance"


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## bsdc (Feb 15, 2002)

TheDon said:


> You guys forget that texas has an inferiority complex. They need to be loud otherwise people might remember that texas is still not even half the size of Alaska.


Global warming will fix that! Alaska will be melted down to the size of Nebraska before too long.


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## bsdc (Feb 15, 2002)

We are so boastful because we are proud of our state. We've got year round cycling, friendly people, beautiful women, great economy, reasonable cost of living, great weather ... The boil has hardly reached the 90's and the dust bowl has been flooding this year. I can hardly keep up with mowing the grass. 

So where are you from? Are you proud of it?


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## lookrider (Dec 3, 2006)

bsdc said:


> We are so boastful because we are proud of our state. We've got year round cycling, friendly people, beautiful women, great economy, reasonable cost of living, great weather ... The boil has hardly reached the 90's and the dust bowl has been flooding this year. I can hardly keep up with mowing the grass.






bsdc said:


> So where are you from??


Long Island, NY.



bsdc said:


> Are you proud of it?


No, One doesn't choose their regional origin, or ethnic background. Conversely, should you feel ashamed of where you come from or your ethnicity? Then why feel "pride?" I've never understood this "pride." BTW "pride" is a sin...

I will say this. I've never been anywhere where there wasn't something I could find to like about the place.


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## bsdc (Feb 15, 2002)

One of my best friends is from NY. I hope to go there some time. I'd also like to ride in up state NY one Summer. 

If having pride in yourself, the people around you, and the place you live is the worse sin you commit, then you might qualify to be a saint.


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## desmo13 (Jun 28, 2006)

lookrider said:


> Then why feel "pride?" I've never understood this "pride." BTW "pride" is a sin...
> 
> .


I guess you don't have children.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

I hate to come off as a total jerk, but I think it is unavoidable. I always think it is small minded when people make blanket statements about areas of the world or groups of people.....but I have to say Texas sucks.

I have lived in Europe and Asia and travel extensively for pleasure and work. I always seem to find something positive wherever I go, except for Texas. I go to Texas 2-3 times a year for work, Austin, Dallas, Houston and even Plano. I remember looking forward to my first trip years ago after hearing about how Texas is paradise from every Texan I have ever met. It was very far from paradise. The women were large, the food was not good....flat, dusty and hot

Whenever I go I am always reminded of the quote that Hemingway used to describe his home town of Oak Park Ill, he said it was a place of 'broad lawns and narrow minds''. That quote always springs to mind as I drive thru the neighborhoods of McMansions of Plano


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

Wait, I just thought of a couple of good things.

The music in Austin and the female students at UT


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## bsdc (Feb 15, 2002)

bigpinkt said:


> Wait, I just thought of a couple of good things.
> 
> The music in Austin and the female students at UT


I don't care much for live music and I went to UT's rival, Texas A&M. I guess it's just a matter of personal taste.


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## lookrider (Dec 3, 2006)

desmo13 said:


> I guess you don't have children.


I was really talking about being proud of where you're from or proud of your ethnicity. No, I don't have children, (and I really don't see what it has to do with promoting Texas or badmouthing the French or France) but I'd be thankful and humbled if they turned out ok..

Life can be very hard ..

Some people's kids don't turn out ok.


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## lookrider (Dec 3, 2006)

bsdc said:


> One of my best friends is from NY. I hope to go there some time. I'd also like to ride in up state NY one Summer.
> 
> If having pride in yourself, the people around you, and the place you live is the worse sin you commit, then you might qualify to be a saint.


Well the POTUS, being a Christian and all(and from Texas), should know that you are saved by Grace, not works, because if you are saved by works, then Grace is not Grace. If you are saved by works then that would lead some to boast..So then, pride is a sin, one of the seven deadly ones, that is, if you believe in this sort of thing.

I guess I over reacted to your post in which you were kind of joking, but we've been bad mouthing the French for quite a while and it often comes about because they're not supportive of some misbegotten military adventure we want to drag them into. Plus this globalization of American brands we're constantly jamming down everyone's throats.

I think they're right on the 35 hour work week and socialized medicine and I don't appreciate it that Americans who are born with a silver spoon in their mouths, or who are uninformed, are knocking things they've adopted(and all things French) which would be beneficial to the majority of Americans.


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