# Is Your Ultegra 6800 11-28t Cassette "Jumpy" in the Middle?



## PoorInRichfield (Nov 30, 2013)

When I bought my Trek Domane back in late 2013, the mechanic putting it together told me this was the first Domane he had assembled and had to contact the Shimano rep because it was making an odd noise in certain gears. The Shimano rep told him "that's just how it is on the 11 speed" (paraphrase).

A year and a half later, the noise is making me a little crazy. The noise I'm referring to is the sound of the chain on the 5th smallest cog sounding like it wants to shift into the next gear with each revolution (i.e., the chain is "jumpy"). Since the chain does this in what is nearly the middle of the cassette with no issues in other gears, I can't seem to adjust the derailleur to make the noise go away. As of today's ride, my bike is shifting flawlessly in all gears, yet it still makes this annoying noise in the 5th cog... in the big and little ring.

I think I know what the issue is, but not sure about the cure. The cassette that came on my bike is an 11-28t, which is a gear spread that seems to work well for the terrain I ride on. As the photo below shows, the 11-12-13-14-15t gears all line-up nicely, and then there's a big "jump" to the next gear. Because the 11 speed cassette is so compact, I'm concluding that this next larger gear is catching slightly on the chain when it's on the 5th cog.









One reason this is highly annoying as I find that the 5th cog is the one I ride in the most! Hence I'm constantly hearing this clicking noise and I sometimes shift out of the gear just to stop the noise, even if it means riding in a sub-optimal gear. I'm considering getting a cassette with a different array of cogs, but I'm concerned that the issue might just move to a different area of the cassette?

Am I “just special” with this problem or are any of you experiencing it, too?


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Where is your lockring? lol.

You're special, something's wrong.


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## PoorInRichfield (Nov 30, 2013)

MMsRepBike said:


> Where is your lockring? lol.


The weight-weenie in me made me take the lock ring off to save a few grams.  Just kidding... I took the cassette off to clean it and took the picture before the ring was back on.

If this is what it's like to be "special", I don't want to be special any more! :cryin:


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

It could be improper torque maybe. Are you making sure it's torqued back on correctly?

And turning the barrel adjuster on the back of the RD clockwise (looking from back) a half turn or so doesn't help?


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## TJay74 (Sep 9, 2012)

Have you tried swapping the black spacer ring to another cog to see if the noise moves or changes?


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## PoorInRichfield (Nov 30, 2013)

MMsRepBike said:


> It could be improper torque maybe. Are you making sure it's torqued back on correctly?
> 
> And turning the barrel adjuster on the back of the RD clockwise (looking from back) a half turn or so doesn't help?


The bike has always made this noise and I'm just now getting to the point where I'd like to do something about it (i.e., annoyed). I've had the cassette off twice for cleaning, but don't currently have a torque wrench that fits the lock washer tool, so I guess that could be something to try. 

Adjusting the barrel adjuster doesn't resolve the issue. I just adjusted the cable tension before today's ride and the bike is shifting wonderfully in all gears, but the noise remains.


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## PoorInRichfield (Nov 30, 2013)

TJay74 said:


> Have you tried swapping the black spacer ring to another cog to see if the noise moves or changes?


Aren't all the black spacers the same width? Maybe they're not... I just assumed they were when I put the cassette back together after cleaning.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

It may just be the cassette. My 11-23 (11 speed) seems to do a similar thing. I have no issues with my 12-25 or 11-28.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

I also think something is wrong, mostly likely; cable routing, kink in cable, corroded cable, worn housing, housing ends not square, housing ends not properly seated in ferules and/or ferules not seated in shifter or derailleur or stops. Other things; b screw adjustment, bent hanger, loose derailleur mounting screw, derailleur needing lubing... and if it's a high mileage rig; worn shifter, worn jockey wheels, worn out derailleur...


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

I have a 2014 Domane with 6800 running the same cassette. No problems like you describe, at all. No, that's not "just how it is on the 11 speed". That's complete BS. 

Find a new LBS and better mechanic.

The tuning and setup on the 6800 drivetrain can be finicky. It doesn't like any false tension or cable slack.


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

I'd ask the shop to verify the hanger is straight. Typically, when all but one cog is behaving, adjusting the barrel does nothing to solve the issue. It can sometimes "move" the issue... but not solve it. 

Worn or binding cables are so often a culprit - it drives me nuts how often my buddies tell me their bike is shifting poorly... then admit the cables have 5,000+ miles on them. 

But, with a new build (since the OP's bike did this from the day-one), I'd lean toward a misaligned hanger... or just a fluke with that cassette. You must be close to (or over?) due for a cassette and chain - see what happens with the swap.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

I'm sticking with improperly installed cassette.

The clue is that the shop thinks this is normal. That clue means that shop never correctly torques cassettes most likely. You'd be surprised how many shops don't. Many shops don't even have the proper tool to use a torque wrench on a cassette, all they have is that park tool thing.

If it's not tightened properly, it leaves the cogs in the center of cassette loose. This is how freehubs get notches in them over time. These loose cogs will get pulled into the splines because they're free moving. They're not supposed to be able to be wiggled. They should be super tightly clamped.

If you don't know what 40 newton meters is, it's almost a certain bet you're not tightening it enough. 40 newton meters is a lot.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

MMsRepBike said:


> ...If you don't know what 40 newton meters is, it's almost a certain bet you're not tightening it enough. 40 newton meters is a lot.


40 N-m is the mid-range of Shimano's torque spec for the 6800 cassette, 30-50 N-m (262-437 in-lbs)


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

looigi said:


> I also think something is wrong, mostly likely; cable routing, kink in cable, corroded cable, worn housing, housing ends not square, housing ends not properly seated in ferules and/or ferules not seated in shifter or derailleur or stops. Other things; b screw adjustment, bent hanger, loose derailleur mounting screw, derailleur needing lubing... and if it's a high mileage rig; worn shifter, worn jockey wheels, worn out derailleur...


His bike is a 2013. Take a look at the picture of his cassette. It certainly is not a matter if worn components.

Derailleur hanger alignment might be something to check.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

ibericb said:


> 40 N-m is the mid-range of Shimano's torque spec for the 6800 cassette, 30-50 N-m (262-437 in-lbs)


40Nm is the exact torque spec listed on the cassette lockring itself.


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## TiCoyote (Jun 28, 2005)

I have the 12-25, and my middle gear is a little less smooth than the others.


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## .je (Aug 25, 2012)

Whenever mine did that, it was:
Wheel wasn't seated in the dropouts evenly. Totally dumb, but a free fix!
Derailleur parallelogram had a lot of dirt in it. WD-40 cleaned it out, and it worked freely.
(I've said it in other threads too) the cable hanging in the housing. I greased it, and it stopped.
I forgot the 1mm spacer at the back of the 105 cassette, so the cassette floated. Holy stupid! It also chewed up the freehub!
Chain was very dry and resistant to being pulled sideways. Right after I oiled it, it shifted freely.
It was suggested to me also that the hanger could be ever slightly off alignment, but I've been luckier than some people.

Almost all of those are the same issue, the parts resisting being moved the small amount you're asking. At the ends of the cassette, the derailleur springs are exerting their maximum force, so there's force to move, but in the middle when they're more even, the friction was a larger component of the net force on the cable.

I hope these ideas can help, even if as you say the shifting was rough from the start. When everything is free-moving, my gears, even thousands of km later, shift exactly. I wonder why the team of Shimano and your LBS couldn't adjust yours immediately, and says it's normal, when thousands of other bikes don't do that - bikes are not complicated, especially when you are staring at one all day.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

MMsRepBike said:


> 40Nm is the exact torque spec listed on the cassette lockring itself.


Yep - that too.

The 30-50 is the range given in the DM.


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## PoorInRichfield (Nov 30, 2013)

MMsRepBike said:


> If it's not tightened properly, it leaves the cogs in the center of cassette loose. This is how freehubs get notches in them over time. These loose cogs will get pulled into the splines because they're free moving. They're not supposed to be able to be wiggled. They should be super tightly clamped.


Yeah, I know about the notches all too well (see this post I started a while back from my other bike).  That was yet another reason I took the cassette off... to see if it had started notching yet (and it has a little). 

I bought my Domane from Wisconsin's largest Trek dealer and if they can't get it right, I don't know who will in my area. Most other Trek dealers in my area don't even carry Ultegra equipped bikes because they don't sell as fast. 

I have a torque wrench, but it's for smaller bolts and doesn't go up to 40nm. It pains me to buy a larger, expensive torque wrench just for this one purpose... but I guess it's that or take my chances. For about the same price as a decent, large torque wrench, I could buy a different cassette and see if that resolves the problem. Too bad there isn't a "cassette swap program" so I could try someone else's cassette before committing over $100 to get rid of a noise.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

I do work on my cars and truck too at home. So I have a craftsman torque wrench for that. I use metric vehicles so my torque wrench does foot pounds and newton meters both, a reading on each side. Just a large click type one. In the shop we use the Park Tool big one the TW6 or something, but it's probably overpriced. Any large auto torque wrench will work. If it only reads imperial, you can just look at a conversion table and set it appropriately.

As for the tool, I use one from Icetoolz. It has a 1/2" drive socket on the back to fit directly into the big torque wrenches, the splines are very nice and tight/snug fitting and it also has that center pokey thing that's not really needed but doesn't hurt. Let me get a link: IceToolz Cassette Lockring Tool with PIN | Amazon.com: Outdoor Recreation

Everything is all adding up to the same thing, not enough torque on the cassette.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

PoorInRichfield said:


> I bought my Domane from Wisconsin's largest Trek dealer and if they can't get it right, I don't know who will in my area. Most other Trek dealers in my area don't even carry Ultegra equipped bikes because they don't sell as fast.


You don't need a Trek dealer for this. Just a competent mechanic, which from what you've posted here I would say WI's largest Trek dealer lacks.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

OldZaskar said:


> I'd ask the shop to verify the hanger is straight. Typically, when all but one cog is behaving, adjusting the barrel does nothing to solve the issue. It can sometimes "move" the issue... but not solve it.
> 
> Worn or binding cables are so often a culprit - it drives me nuts how often my buddies tell me their bike is shifting poorly... then admit the cables have 5,000+ miles on them.
> 
> But, with a new build (since the OP's bike did this from the day-one), I'd lean toward a misaligned hanger... or just a fluke with that cassette. You must be close to (or over?) due for a cassette and chain - see what happens with the swap.


If it's the hanger it wouldn't make the noise in just one cog. It would get worse as you go to each successively larger cog. Doubtful it's the hanger.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

I'm willing to bet that shop uses the Park Tool FR-5 to remove and install cassettes.

There's no drive socket on the back, just a circle. There's no way to attach a torque wrench to it. It's made to just be used with something like an adjustable wrench. 
Well.. You could get the adapter wrench head thing for torque wrenches but that's just not the right way to do things.

This is a common problem with shops. I happen to know of one locally that for sure has no capability to torque on cassettes and they've been around for decades.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

This Tekton torque wrench measures in both ft/lbs and N/m, gets good reviews and costs less than $30.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

MMsRepBike said:


> I'm willing to bet that shop uses the Park Tool FR-5 to remove and install cassettes.
> 
> There's no drive socket on the back, just a circle. There's no way to attach a torque wrench to it. It's made to just be used with something like an adjustable wrench.
> Well.. You could get the adapter wrench head thing for torque wrenches but that's just not the right way to do things.


You must have a different FR-5 than the one I have. Mine has a 1" hex head on the back side. A 1" socket fits perfectly. IF you want the one with the pin, get the FR-5G


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Ah, yes of course, a large socket. I guess my feeble mind couldn't think of that.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

MMsRepBike said:


> I guess my feeble mind couldn't think of that.


Quick -- more coffee! It's still early (somewhere).


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## 92gli (Aug 27, 2009)

My 105 11 speed was downshifting very poorly at the mid to lower end of the cassette. Found out that the ferrule coming out of the lever was pulled sideways by tight bar tape. It wasn't happening on the largest cogs because there was more derailleur spring tension. I re-taped the bars and stuck a little piece of hard foam between the ferrule and the handlebar so it would stay straight.


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## BelgianHammer (Apr 10, 2012)

PoorinRitchfield,

Are you from Richfield, OH by chance? If so, I know what the problem is.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

BelgianHammer said:


> PoorinRitchfield,
> 
> Are you from Richfield, OH by chance? If so, I know what the problem is.


I am guessing Richfield, WI which is ~10 miles from me. I would recommend he take the bike to either Emery's in Tosa or Ben's in Milwaukee. I have had to instruct the wrenches at "Wisconsin's largest Trek dealer" on the proper parts several times. (like when they installed a 9 speed chain on my friend's 10 speed bike)


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## PoorInRichfield (Nov 30, 2013)

BelgianHammer said:


> Are you from Richfield, OH by chance? If so, I know what the problem is.


Not Ohio, but I would still like to know what the problem is?!?!?


Blue CheeseHead said:


> I am guessing Richfield, WI which is ~10 miles from me.


Yup... I'm from the Wisconsin Richfield  If you see a rider on a black Domane 5.2 ride buy and all you here is "click.click.click.click.", that wouldd be me in either 5th or 16th gear. :lol:


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## Adrian haemmig (Dec 1, 2011)

I believe the Shimano rep was correct. I owna Colnago with 6800, my friend owns a BMC also with the same 6800 cassette and both bikes make a slight clicking sound in that same gear only. Everything was checked and is accuratly adjusted. I also own an 11-32 6800 cassette that also makes the same slight clicking sound in one gear only.


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## PoorInRichfield (Nov 30, 2013)

Adrian haemmig said:


> both bikes make a slight clicking sound in that same gear only


Thanks for the reply... I'm glad at least one other person on the planet understands what I'm talking about!  This also leads me to believe that buying a different cassette in hopes that the problem will go away is likely a waste of money.


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## Adrian haemmig (Dec 1, 2011)

Yes it is a 11-28. By the way i used to work as a bike mechanic.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

My 11-23 is noisy on one cog in the middle, it's mildly annoying.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

Go to the Shimano tech site and download the Ultegra 6800 Dealer's Manual. Adjust your dérailleur per instructions and not per what you were doing with the earlier dérailleur models. There should be no noise after its done.

Incidentally, if you don't have a torque wrench to torque the cassette lockring to precisely 40Nm is not the end of the world. Tighten it down and you will know when to stop; if you are the Incredible Hulk, use two fingers.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

MMsRepBike said:


> I'm willing to bet that shop uses the Park Tool FR-5 to remove and install cassettes.
> 
> There's no drive socket on the back, just a circle. There's no way to attach a torque wrench to it.


A 1" socket works. You can even use a deep one to clear a quick-release nut.


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## fastandfurious (Nov 9, 2005)

I was having the same issue on my DI2 with a fresh 11 speed cassette and chain, it was just the middle cog and it was driving me nuts. I took it into my local wrench and had him check the derailleur hanger, among other things, and it was out of alignment. New hanger, no noise.


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