# Two Tricks that may help you with your Cable Brake routing issues



## patineto (Nov 2, 2007)

First My new (to me) size 58cms S-works Came with a aluminum fork that I replace right away with a "Bianchi" carbon fork that I already have, Sadly the steer tube is not as long as I will like, short enough to not even to mount a "Cable hanger" so I decide to mount the cable from the top.

Basically if I was to run just a piece of brake housing passing through the stem, the cable will need to come up a few inches higher to keep the cable and housing working correctly, maybe issues as you can imagine.

My solution, well very simple to use a "Noddle" from a V-brake so I can run a really tight set up, In fact right next to the stem, the bottom hole was made at the place I want the cable to come out, the upper one was calculated to fit with the radius of the Noddle (~20mm forward)









The noddle even rotates and moves to the right side of the bar a little to make the routing even smother..









Some day when I have more money i will get the proper 31.8 handlebar, for now I'm running a 26.0 with a pair of shims from one of my downhill forks, everything clears no problem.









Yes, drilling the stem, scary, well we will see if it fails or not, reason why I chose a somehow cheap stem that is overbuild.









The action is so smooth I can not be any happier










This is the second Improvement, this one makes me really proud.

If the seat collar was really close to the top tube or the trajectory of the rear brake cable, I will install on of those "Dual purpose" seat collar/cable hanger, well sadly this is not the case with the specialized, so a decide to make my own as oppose to use of those old suntour cable hangers, that move up and down when the brake is apply, losing part of the energy into unnecessary movement, brake rubbing, soft lever feel, etc.

Maybe this is the only part useful out of a Trek Y-bike, they use them so you can mount a water bottle at the seat post.

In this case the one i have is for a 31.6mm seat post, my seat tube is 31.8mm so i just bored the hole a little bigger with a half moon file.









Basically I drill a hole for a cable ferrule at a 45deggre angle in the piece of aluminum and then Grind the Sh^t out of the piece in a very "Organic" shape to make it as nice as possible









I even grind the front part of the clamp in a "half moon shape" so the clamp can fit the curve of the top tube a little better and also seat lower in the frame for better routing.









Yes the cable comes from the left side and not on the center, But sincerely it make no difference.









This is a super solid, super rigid setup.









Well enjoy, I hope you find if helpful and get to use something similar someday.


ricky


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## coachjon (Feb 6, 2008)

very sweet setups!


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

patineto said:


> Yes, drilling the stem, scary, well we will see if it fails or not, reason why I chose a somehow cheap stem that is overbuild.


You could buy a steel stem from Salsa and braze on the appropriate reinforcements. Personally, I would not feel comfortable on your current set-up.


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## dc.cyclocross (Oct 5, 2007)

i love the rear brake solution- I have had a lot of trouble getting a smooth feel on some of my bikes

can you buy that trek part by itself in different sizes?

-m


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## patineto (Nov 2, 2007)

dc.cyclocross said:


> i love the rear brake solution- I have had a lot of trouble getting a smooth feel on some of my bikes


Oh DC the difference is massive, is like having a "Rigid line" from the brake lever to the brakes, totally solid feel.



> can you buy that trek part by itself in different sizes?
> 
> -m


I think they made it in 27.2 and 31.6 but that was years ago, you best bid is to go to your favorite LBS and ask them nicelly if they have one of theirs parts bin.

You can also use a seatcollar but they are usually not so big as this one


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## patineto (Nov 2, 2007)

PeanutButterBreath said:


> You could buy a steel stem from Salsa and braze on the appropriate reinforcements. Personally, I would not feel comfortable on your current set-up.



I agree with you, at least to a point, After all drilling holes is not that much different than installing a "Rivnut" for a water bottle mount on the frame, then again the stem is a cantilever beam with out much support or triangulation, not like a frame.

I just build the bike yesterday, so i need to figure out first if I'm going to keep the Bianchi fork (so far it works really well) or get a fork with a longer steering and go with a more conventional set up is the stem is just to low or something.

If I keep the fork, my good friend JP Morgen can make me a custom shape stem with whatever I want attach to it.

thanks for your concerns anyway.


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## patineto (Nov 2, 2007)

coachjon said:


> very sweet setups!



thanks senor I try to take "Day light" pictures today for your viewing pleasure.


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## DPCX (Nov 11, 2004)

dc.cyclocross said:


> i love the rear brake solution- I have had a lot of trouble getting a smooth feel on some of my bikes
> 
> 
> -m


For a good solid/smooth feel on the rear brakes I use the shortest piece of Nokon cable housing I can fit between the top tube cable stop & the seat stay stop. This makes a world of difference. Besides, once I took that squeeky crap off my full susp xc bike I needed something to do with it besides throwing it in the recycle bin. 

I like what you did with that old clamp though, very creative.

DP


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

I love your rear brake set-up.

I think your front brake set-up is really a bad idea. Drilling an Al stem is kind of sketchy. Especially seeing the downside to a stem failure is severe.


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## tjanson (Nov 11, 2006)

Nice. I have been thinking about the drill the stem setup for awhile now. I think it is ok if you are on the lightweight side <155 and you don't use a super- lightweight stem. Still a little sketchy though, be sure to inspect it regularly for cracks coming from the hole. The top surface of the stem is the most stressed, and it is in tension, so unfortunately the optimal place to route your cable is also at the worse possible place to drill a hole in a stem. But as I said, if you have a heavier stem, and you are on the lightweight side, probably the factor of safety will be enough to cover you.
Another way to do it would be to JB weld a cable stop onto the side of the stem. You'll end up with the cable a little crooked, but that is never a problem.
I really like the rear clamp! It's little details like this that make cross bikes so great!


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## zank (Aug 4, 2005)

The rear brake routing is awesome. Nice work!


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## patineto (Nov 2, 2007)

tjanson said:


> Nice. I have been thinking about the drill the stem setup for awhile now. I think it is ok if you are on the lightweight side <155 and you don't use a super- lightweight stem. Still a little sketchy though, be sure to inspect it regularly for cracks coming from the hole. The top surface of the stem is the most stressed, and it is in tension, so unfortunately the optimal place to route your cable is also at the worse possible place to drill a hole in a stem. But as I said, if you have a heavier stem, and you are on the lightweight side, probably the factor of safety will be enough to cover you.
> Another way to do it would be to JB weld a cable stop onto the side of the stem. You'll end up with the cable a little crooked, but that is never a problem.



Okay lets do something..

Let see who can come with the best solution for the front brake hanger following the constrains of my frame.

*No space left for any kind of hanger attach to the fork steer tube and no way to get a longer fork for now.
*as short stack headset as I can find and even then is no space (4mm shorter than a king).
* Aluminum or at least a production stem (not a custom job) 
* No welding, no fancy machining, just hand tools and work.
I guess that is it, well plus this one.


~ No, NO way to use a brake hanger attach to the fork "center Brake hole" (I do have one, but it looks like crap.

let see what you can come up with..


> I really like the rear clamp! It's little details like this that make cross bikes so great!


I'm glad to have so many bikes, because is always something to improve , fix or make work much better and I never ever get bored.

here are some pictures of the rear brake hanger during the day light.

The clamp following the shape of the frame









The wires may look entangle , but the routing at the headtube side is perfect, with each housing coming from the opposite side of the shifter (left shifter routed on the right side of the frame, right shifter and brake wire on the left side of the frame, for really nice radius that don't bind at all.









The brake routing is really clean and elegant, plus it works really well.









The Small ferrule is seal and everything, looks like nice "water faucet" to me.









Can you believe I made all this with a 4.5" dyegrinder with a "Flapper" sanding disc wheel.


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## FTM (Feb 4, 2005)

patineto said:


> Okay lets do something..
> 
> Let see who can come with the best solution for the front brake hanger following the constrains of my frame.
> 
> ...


This
using









which has worked really well for me but I am now switching over to this








with a little twist for double steel security.

Idea stolen from Plus One Lap


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

the rear is nicely done, but I might have tried the surly hanger first


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## Gripped (Nov 27, 2002)

FTMIdea stolen from [url=https://plusonelap.blogspot.com/2007/10/cheap-weight-tip-1-front-brake-stop.html said:


> Plus One Lap[/url]


Idea actually stolen from Josh Snead (wunlaptogo) who I think saw it in Yurp. Here's a photo of my setup and a linky to my post.


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## pbayne (Sep 2, 2008)

One solution (though not a popular one) would be to try a v-brake with a travel agent. There are a handful of pros who ride that setup. Feels good in the front with Avid brakes. Rear feels the same to me.


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## patineto (Nov 2, 2007)

Gripped said:


> Idea actually stolen from Josh Snead (wunlaptogo) who I think saw it in Yurp. Here's a photo of my setup and a linky to my post.


Wow that is pretty smart, except for the fact that the wire is not perpendicular to the headtube, and off axis with the path of travel of the brakes, then again maybe does not make any difference.

Good concept none the less, I just hope you don't need to run a 150mm stem.


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

patineto said:


> * Aluminum or at least a production stem (not a custom job)
> * No welding, no fancy machining, just hand tools and work.
> I guess that is it, well plus this one.


Salsa Cromotos are production, brazing is not welding and a MAPP torch is arguably a hand tool. 

Mini V?


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## patineto (Nov 2, 2007)

tjanson said:


> Another way to do it would be to JB weld a cable stop onto the side of the stem. You'll end up with the cable a little crooked, but that is never a problem.


JB weld Scare me Sh^tless, is just not the right type of application for a such a bond, if anything you can use epoxi resin and some fiberglass, carbon or whatever and do a "Calffe" wrap around the stem..

Anyway you concept got me thinking and I think I found something very interesting, well as long as you stem "Shaft" is round.

Front derailleur adapters come in three different sizes to fit the different types of frame materials , something like 28.6mm, 31.8mm and 34.9mm, they are easy to find and they always have a "Hinge" so you can wrap them around the seat tube, Hell you can even thread the 5mm hole and put a cable adjuster on it.

this pictures are just to show the concept.









More than sufficient material to make some threads.









Yeap is kind of Fugly but at least is no structural compromise for the stem.









the only problem i can see, is if you have a stem with a angle that will change the trajectory of the cable hanger, nothing more than a little "angle drilling" can not fix (to compensate.

I do think we are into something, I'm going to try my own version tomorrow morning since my grinder makes way to much noise to use it at night


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## patineto (Nov 2, 2007)

FatTireFred said:


> the rear is nicely done, but I might have tried the surly hanger first


Surly hanger...???

I guess I much rather make my own parts if I can, so i'm not aware of this hanger, i'm going to google it right now.


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## patineto (Nov 2, 2007)

FTM said:


> This
> using
> 
> 
> ...


That is how my bike was equipped, they usually work "Well" if the seat collar is close to the toptube but in the case of this S-works the seat clamp collar is really high and makes the wire move around way to much..

maybe will be easy to use on of them with a secondary collar mount it as close to the top tube as possible


> but I am now switching over to this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


those are actually much better since they only rotate on one axis (they don't wonder that much), but they still suffer from the same problem if they are mounted to high from the optimal cable routing, since they will tend to "Pivot" when the brake is applied..


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## patineto (Nov 2, 2007)

DPCX said:


> For a good solid/smooth feel on the rear brakes I use the shortest piece of Nokon cable housing I can fit between the top tube cable stop & the seat stay stop. This makes a world of difference. Besides, once I took that squeeky crap off my full susp xc bike I needed something to do with it besides throwing it in the recycle bin.


Nokon cables rule, I never had the balls to spend the money for them but I install and service many bikes with them and the work really well, wonderful invention.

Also all this new aftermarket SIS Housing with braided outer liners to prevent housing burst, are super rigid and much much cheaper. 




> I like what you did with that old clamp though, very creative.
> 
> DP


I do like to play, is so much fun to solve problem that you get to destroy soon after.


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## tjanson (Nov 11, 2006)

patineto said:


> JB weld Scare me Sh^tless, is just not the right type of application for a such a bond, if anything you can use epoxi resin and some fiberglass, carbon or whatever and do a "Calffe" wrap around the stem..


I dunno, JB weld has always worked for me. My mountain bike has a steel brake cable stop JB welded onto the steel frame, it's still on there 3 years later. It's a reliable adhesive if you prep your surfaces right. Many people in the Volvo performance world install turbocharger oil drains into their oil pans with JB weld. If you really want to get get fancy, you could always buy some expensive Loctite epoxy, we used that stuff on our college's formula SAE racecar to bond the structural carbon fiber honeycomb panels to the chromoly steel frame.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

I was thinking of something like this... but a rear hanger attached somehow to the stem, like with a hose clamp. but it would be fugly and there is the hanger in the faceplate trick that is basically the same thing and eliminates much of the cable/housing looping all over the place. the front der is more elegant, yet still bulky looking. but nothing some grinding wouldn't take care of


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## Tin Sloth (Mar 26, 2007)

patineto said:


> Surly hanger...???
> 
> I guess I much rather make my own parts if I can, so i'm not aware of this hanger, i'm going to google it right now.


Did you look into the cobalt headset by crank brothers? it has a super low stack and a really nifty design. It uses a cartridge-style bearing, but the outer race of the bearing is also the press-in cup, rather than having the bearing separate from the cup. it might give you just a touch more room, but probably not enough to use a steerer tube hanger. The other thing i've done in the past was to use one of those cheap-o steel head tube hangers (for threaded headsets) and grind them out to fit a 1 1/8" threadless steerer tube. they are usually only about 2-3mm thick.

-Justin.

P.S. my DeSalvo cross frame will be delivered on friday.


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## Unoveloce (Apr 13, 2005)

Here's a good hanger that might appeal to your DIY ethos. FWIW, you see a fair amount of these type of hangers on the Euro Pro's bikes. Wellens was rocking a sweet gold one last year.

Here's the linky to the whole article that describes the method for making the madness.

http://nippleworks.blogspot.com/2008/10/cyclocross-cable-hanger.html


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## patineto (Nov 2, 2007)

Okay how about this.

No Holes drill anywhere, tHIS TIME i'M using a kind of "Rollamagic" for a Pulley and then one of the clamp design to mount V-brake stop on bikes only made for canti brakes, like the klein's

Here are so pictures.

In This first I place a piece of cardboard as background so you can see the pulley better.









Another view with the "Spinier stopper" that I hand made for it so the tip of the pulley down does not go down when the brake is aplied.









This is just a "proof of Concept" a may make a more finish version later.









The clamp, very slick and pretty, no need to work on it at all.









I wish the whole Pulley and cable seat closer to the stem (center axis of the bike) but I was not able to do it with the spare parts I have available at home (they where to small to drill them any farder), I may look for more propitiated parts if this ones give me any trouble.









The cable housing now enter the pulley from the bottom side (this pulley have two choices of entry points), the housing is a little to tight and short for my taste but so far is working, will see what happen when gets old and rusty.









The view from the other side.









Yes the cable does run sideways, but i can not see any problems so far.
ps: sorry for the super bad picture









The Brake is freaking solid, not even a trace of flexion anywhere and I'm pretty chubby and also heavy handed.


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## patineto (Nov 2, 2007)

Tin Sloth said:


> Did you look into the cobalt headset by crank brothers? it has a super low stack and a really nifty design. It uses a cartridge-style bearing, but the outer race of the bearing is also the press-in cup, rather than having the bearing separate from the cup. it might give you just a touch more room, but probably not enough to use a steer tube hanger.


No I never see one, but sounds very interesting, I will take a look, maybe no for this project but I have a few other bikes with similar issue (something that happen when you are kind of tall)




> The other thing i've done in the past was to use one of those cheap-o steel head tube hangers (for threaded headsets) and grind them out to fit a 1 1/8" threadless steer tube. they are usually only about 2-3mm thick.


I have a few of this that I collect over the years , but as you say they don't really provide a proper angle for the wire to come in on a vertical fashion (even if you have a "Noddle" you still the collar to be at least 1' downwards from the stem lower side


> -Justin.
> 
> P.S. my DeSalvo cross frame will be delivered on friday.


Sure I did not buy it, but I will love to have it...:idea:


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## patineto (Nov 2, 2007)

Unoveloce said:


> Here's a good hanger that might appeal to your DIY ethos. FWIW, you see a fair amount of these type of hangers on the Euro Pro's bikes. Wellens was rocking a sweet gold one last year.
> 
> Here's the linky to the whole article that describes the method for making the madness.
> 
> http://nippleworks.blogspot.com/2008/10/cyclocross-cable-hanger.html


Great website, thanks for the link..

But if you make it out of steel is going to be heavy as hell, bend aluminum will usually fail unless you heat treated, titanium a pain to work with to bend and then much to flexible if is just a folded (on one axis) shape

Then again maybe you can make a pretty light weight unit, by welding pieces of 6061 alloy keeping them really close to the head tube or even better weld the cable hanger to the top cap of the headset (the one that rotates with the forks)

I like this kinds of collaborations, make it for a fun topic that is for sure.


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## raymonda (Jan 31, 2007)

Might I suggest that you buy a pair of Paul's brakes. You won't need to install any of the the above items, albeit, clever as they are.


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## patineto (Nov 2, 2007)

raymonda said:


> Might I suggest that you buy a pair of Paul's brakes. You won't need to install any of the the above items, albeit, clever as they are.


I have Paul Cantilever brakes already, are you taking about "long arm" with a cross over cable like on a V-brake..??


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## raymonda (Jan 31, 2007)

Yepper!


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## FTM (Feb 4, 2005)

I took this








and with a little twisting and filing, came up with this








works perfectly with no flexing etc when the brakes are applied - and weighs exactly the same as the aluminum version I had on there before.

here's a not so good photo of my rear cable routing


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## patineto (Nov 2, 2007)

FTM said:


> I took this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow that is awesome, brilliant re-use of a part, they even make the same part with a "quick release" version (eccentric clamp) for easy wheel removal, yeah i know heavier too .

Do you have a side view of the set up so we can see the angle of the cable in reference to the headtube, i'm guessing is no big deal.


Congratulations that is a really smart and solid solution.


> here's a not so good photo of my rear cable routing


Oh I love the routing that way but I still don't understand how you adjust the seat post..:mad2: 
or prevent the seat post from failing.

ps: I love those Hunter's they are so freaking cool..


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## beaker (Feb 2, 2005)

It's not DIY or quite as techy as some of the options here, but I didn't see anyone suggest IRD's long drop hangar.

https://www.interlocracing.com/cablehanger.html










It looked like you had room for one spacer in the pics you posted, so this might be an option as well.


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## patineto (Nov 2, 2007)

beaker said:


> It's not DIY or quite as techy as some of the options here, but I didn't see anyone suggest IRD's long drop hangar.
> 
> https://www.interlocracing.com/cablehanger.html
> 
> ...


I Manage to find a new ITM stem with a really short height so now i have about 3mm for a spacer, but I want to install a different stem that will be taller.

By now this has become a "Design exercise" (my profession and passion) so i want to keep working on it like i did not have any space for a spacer.


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## FTM (Feb 4, 2005)

Here's the side view - sorry, phone images aren't the best









As far as the rear routing goes, I'm 41 and my legs haven't grown in at least 23 or so years. I don't really need to adjust the seatpost. I did machine a 5mm slot in the post in case I change saddles - which I can't see happening. I suppose the seat post could fail but it seems much less likely than your stem arrangement; the area where the small slot is, is below the main area of stress and is supported by the steel seat tube. I check it every once in a while.

And yes, I too love the Hunter, Rick makes an amazing bike.


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## patineto (Nov 2, 2007)

FTM said:


> Here's the side view - sorry, phone images aren't the best
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good sound explanation..

So how do you guys prevent the cable wire from fraying (whatever you call when it breaks down do to friction) do you have a teflon liner or some kind of "Ramp" so the cable does not produce to much friction..??


> And yes, I too love the Hunter, Rick makes an amazing bike.


I'm in San Francisco and I have seeing many Hunter's around, speically at the cross races and I find them very smart and also super hot to look at.


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## FTM (Feb 4, 2005)

This season, I am running a full liner from brake lever to about 1/2" above the straddle cable carrier (front and back) but last season with no liner, there seemed to be no wear on the cable. Rick brazed a nice rounded doughnut area where the cable exits the seat tube. Granted, he didn't like the idea of the cable going through the seat tube to begin with, he thought it would keep me from occasionally removing and greasing the seat post (it doesn't), but he was nice enough to humor me. I don't regret it at all.

I'll be in Santa Cruz on Sunday for the Surf City CX race, say high and check out the set-up if you're there. I'm racing at 2:30 but should be there for the costume race as well.


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## patineto (Nov 2, 2007)

FTM said:


> This season, I am running a full liner from brake lever to about 1/2" above the straddle cable carrier (front and back) but last season with no liner, there seemed to be no wear on the cable. Rick brazed a nice *rounded doughnut* area where the cable exits the seat tube. Granted, he didn't like the idea of the cable going through the seat tube to begin with, he thought it would keep me from occasionally removing and greasing the seat post (it doesn't), but he was nice enough to humor me. I don't regret it at all.


Man you guys are clever, good job, the round edges of the exit doughnut make perfect sense..



> I'll be in Santa Cruz on Sunday for the Surf City CX race, say high and check out the set-up if you're there. I'm racing at 2:30 but should be there for the costume race as well.


I'm going to the swapmeet at the trailhead in the morning but then I will be on "girlfriend Duty" all afternoon.

I never race there, but I love that circuit.


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## Squidward (Dec 18, 2005)

patineto, I may have a solution for you that would use the noodle and a small plate that I can make for you on my miniature mill at home. I'm in Daly City so I'm relatively local to you. Interested?


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## StageHand (Dec 27, 2002)

Easiest thing I can think of:


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## aberry242 (Aug 19, 2004)

*An easier solution...*

would be to buy one of these jobbies (not that your solution isn't pretty slick!):

http://cyclocrossworld.stores.yahoo.net/coseco.html

This clamp came on my Empella, it's served me well. I'm going to get another one for my future pit/training bike. I think they only come in one size, though.

Andy


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