# People who "moved past" GP4000's, what have you settled on?



## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Recently had my brake pad+cartridge slip and case a slow un-threading of my front GP4000S's (25) tire (bead) I do have a "stand-in" from the neglected trainer bike, but have been thinking about what I'll do next.

Now generally, I like the GP4000S. Been praising/defending them in a few threads, never lost control in them, let me run stupid-low pressures when I wanted, only flatted when I really rode hard over some crude ****, and roll as fast as I can power the bike. However, I could also say I used to "love" them as opposed to just like them with realized dislikes towards them: the tread is stupid, feels the front grip feels lacking at times - something that is commonly said of these tires. To be clear, the front grip actually reigns over other tires I've used in the wet, but in the dry it's a different story. 

This is a slight tangent, but as a 135-140lb rider, I sometimes think it's a case of being unable to put enough (weight) load on the front wheel as well as the GP4000S being considered as a "hard" compound. From pretty much day 1, I've had heightened hesitation in descending corners. As a rear tire, however, I really have no issues. Sometimes slide it a bit while climbing, but that could just be my poor positioning. 

...Beats me, but I've been interested in what others have moved on to, and if they realized anything better than these.

We can sum this thread as: Ventruck's looking for tires that work for lighter riders in particular, with all the good attributes of a Continental GP4000S *+ a bag of chips.*.


I mean don't get me wrong. It's a great tire apart from the described issue, having more high points than the other tires I've rolled on (Michelin PR2, Lithion, Vredestein Fortezza SE,Vittoria Rubino Pro Slick), but with one exception: the Hutchinson Fusion 2. It's my current "stand-in" as mentioned as it's been rolled on less despite its age. I can't recall anything bad about it, so perhaps the second glance will make for clarification. Wouldn't mind to hear about Fusion 3's.


----------



## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

Point of correction, there is no such thing as a 4000"S" in 25. They only come in 23c. You can get a black 4000 in a 25 which will have the same Black Chili compound, but different graphics.

I am happy with the Contis. They seem to be a good balance of wear, puncture resistance, grip and rolling resistance.


----------



## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Opinions*



Ventruck said:


> Recently had my brake pad+cartridge slip and case a slow un-threading of my front GP4000S's (25) tire (bead) I do have a "stand-in" from the neglected trainer bike, but have been thinking about what I'll do next.
> 
> Now generally, I like the GP4000S. Been praising/defending them in a few threads, never lost control in them, let me run stupid-low pressures when I wanted, only flatted when I really rode hard over some crude ****, and roll as fast as I can power the bike. However, I could also say I used to "love" them as opposed to just like them with realized dislikes towards them: the tread is stupid, feels the front grip feels lacking at times - something that is commonly said of these tires. To be clear, the front grip actually reigns over other tires I've used in the wet, but in the dry it's a different story.
> 
> ...


Don't kid yourself. First of all, it's been shown conclusively that people cannot accurately determine tire performance by "feel" during riding. And for every high end tire there are lovers and haters. In practice, there is not that much actual performance difference between comparable tire brands. While one tire may feel different than another, that is no proof that it somehow performs better or worse.

My recommendation is to chose your tires based on what you can find on sale and what colors appeal to you (if that makes a difference).


----------



## Cpk (Aug 1, 2009)

I had the same feeling with the 4000s's when descending. Right now I am running a Prorace3 up front and a Rubino Pro Slick in the rear with latex tubes. To me the combo rolls and handles as well as full Proraces, which is noticeably better then the 4000s's, and hopefully the Rubino on the rear will be more durable. The combo also handles very well in the wet.


----------



## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Kerry Irons said:


> Don't kid yourself. First of all, it's been shown conclusively that people cannot accurately determine tire performance by "feel" during riding. And for every high end tire there are lovers and haters. In practice, there is not that much actual performance difference between comparable tire brands. While one tire may feel different than another, that is no proof that it somehow performs better or worse.
> 
> My recommendation is to chose your tires based on what you can find on sale and what colors appeal to you (if that makes a difference).


I do agree with this, as furthermore: Pro riders change teams (and usually tires therefore) without problem, finish the same races, and how the (non-flatted) tires never really decide outcomes. 

In spite of that fact, I'm personally too uneasy with picking a tire for just being available/present. I figure long term experience with a tire is worthwhile to take note of. If a feeling has lasted through the term, especially among a good share of people, I'd think of it as a "reinforced" consideration. Placebo may take it's role, but at the end of the day, it's best to work towards delivering confidence as opposed to the lack of.

The Serfas Seca RS (in green!) has caught my eye under your same points of recommendation. Would still seek out specific input and do research about the web before committing to it/them.


----------



## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

I'm nearing the point of needing new tires too. This is my first road bike along with my first set of non stock tires (GP4K's too). I'm also fearing moving to a different brand.

I've been thinking about the 320tpi Vittoria Corsa Evo's.

If there isn't a big difference in performance among the brands...what about durability? I do a lot of city riding and these Contis have been very good to me.


----------



## mimason (Oct 7, 2006)

I've never tried mismatching tires but this does sound compelling. I truely like the way Pro3s ride. I've felt like I have more control in corners than Contis but I seem to get flats with them so I've always gone back to the German rubber. If I use a Pro3 in front and a 4k in the rear I wonder what this would be like.


----------



## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

AvantDale said:


> I'm nearing the point of needing new tires too. This is my first road bike along with my first set of non stock tires (GP4K's too). I'm also fearing moving to a different brand.
> 
> I've been thinking about the 320tpi Vittoria Corsa Evo's.
> 
> If there isn't a big difference in performance among the brands...what about durability? I do a lot of city riding and these Contis have been very good to me.


Those Vittoria's are fragile. I absolutely love the ride of them, but they get cut, nicked, etc. very quickly. Typically don't last much more than 1700-1800mi, often less due to damage. And they're pricey.

I'm going to try the GP4000s next.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

I base my tires on sale prices as well. I got a very good deal on a set of Kenda Konstrictors at JensonUSA on sale from $40 to $18 each. I tried them and after a month I was way happier then any Conti tire I tried including the 4000's; so I bought 5 more pairs. The first set has over 2000 miles on them, during that time I've had no flats. My first cut was yesterday resulting in a 1/4th inch slice running across the width of the tire but it didn't slice into the belt, so the flat protection belt must be very effective. To be safe I put a small boot patch on the tire then Super Glued the cut; now it looks like nothing happened to it. And after 2000 miles they still look good for at least another 1000.

But if you do web searches you can find all kinds of brands of tires that come up for sale and can find some superb deals if your patient.


----------



## 19surf74 (Feb 1, 2009)

JoelS said:


> Those Vittoria's are fragile. I absolutely love the ride of them, but they get cut, nicked, etc. very quickly. Typically don't last much more than 1700-1800mi, often less due to damage. And they're pricey.
> 
> I'm going to try the GP4000s next.




I agree, the Vittoria's (320 tpi) have a very soft compound and grip really well. But they seriously lack in the durability department. I have about 700 miles on my rear, and it is cut all to hell. But, with it being 320 tpi, I don't worry too much. I will replace with in the next month at around 1000 miles. My Conti's have over 3000 miles and could probably stand to go another 3000. So, you can see what I will be going back to!

I tell you though, for a race only clincher the Vittoria's (320 tpi) is the way to go. Just don't train on them!


----------



## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

19surf74 said:


> I tell you though, for a race only clincher the Vittoria's (320 tpi) is the way to go. Just don't train on them!


All I do on mine is train (I don't race anymore) and I guess it depends on where and what you ride as there are no cuts in mine and they are aging gracefully. They're so good I have another pair waiting in the wings.


----------



## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

Schwalbe Ultremo R1, been riding on a pair all summer. they don't seem to cut so easily as before.


----------



## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

the problem isn't with the tires. the 4000s grip as well as any clincher. It's more likely due to the wrong inflation - what pressure are you running? It's probably too high for your weight.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Cont's lasting 6,000 miles? I've had both the Gatorskin's and the GP4000's and the most I ever got was 2800 miles not even close to 6,000! Before you start thinking I'm overweight, I weigh 164 pounds not tons!! And then the Cont's were so fragile that most of my tires never made it that far without getting destroyed, and the sidewalls were particularly fragile. Sorry to say but Conti's were the worst tires I've ever owned.


----------



## Ghost234 (Jun 1, 2010)

froze said:


> Cont's lasting 6,000 miles? I've had both the Gatorskin's and the GP4000's and the most I ever got was 2800 miles not even close to 6,000! Before you start thinking I'm overweight, I weigh 164 pounds not tons!! And then the Cont's were so fragile that most of my tires never made it that far without getting destroyed, and the sidewalls were particularly fragile. Sorry to say but Conti's were the worst tires I've ever owned.



My Conti 4000's are going on 10,000km and still look almost brand new. I'm sure I could nearly double the milage before I have to look into replacing them.


----------



## chocy (Feb 4, 2009)

I am running Conti 4000 black chilli with latex tubes. I feel Latex tubes help a bit with ride and "grippy feel'


----------



## blackjack (Sep 7, 2010)

froze said:


> Cont's lasting 6,000 miles? I've had both the Gatorskin's and the GP4000's and the most I ever got was 2800 miles not even close to 6,000! Before you start thinking I'm overweight, I weigh 164 pounds not tons!! And then the Cont's were so fragile that most of my tires never made it that far without getting destroyed, and the sidewalls were particularly fragile. Sorry to say but Conti's were the worst tires I've ever owned.



I'm ten pounds more than you and have gotten more than 6k out of a GP 4 season 28c,
I rode at about 80PSI. I have a gp 4000 front on another bike I've been riding recently that has about 4 or 5k on it and I can still see the wear indicators. I don't run this front over 90psi and it's a 23c

As stevesbike noted, you're probably running the inflation way too high.


----------



## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

stevesbike said:


> the problem isn't with the tires. the 4000s grip as well as any clincher. It's more likely due to the wrong inflation - what pressure are you running? It's probably too high for your weight.


Running RBR on "standard form" or whatever it's called, so I'm not 100% sure you're referring to me. But if so,

I'm ~135-140lbs. I go < 85psi.


----------



## Greg Smalter (Jul 16, 2005)

Based on suggestions in this thread:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=220536

... I got the Serfas Secas. I have to say that I'm impressed with the quality. Next to the GP4000 S tires, they just seem and feel like a better tire. They also come in 25s. My LBS stocks them and they are $35 all the time (whereas GP4000 S are $60 when not on sale, $35-40 when PBK has a deal). I haven't had a chance to compare durability yet.

Other than those two, I would still give the Rubino slicks and the Zaffiro slicks a try if PBK had a deal (I saw the Rubino slicks for $18 there once but 12 hours later when I went to buy them it was gone - the Zaffiros routinely sell in the teens there).

As far as the Conti grip, I agree with the others who say it doesn't matter, and pressure is more important (I do 100 psi at 165 lbs on 23s), but I also totally get why you feel the Conti's don't have as good a grip. They just feel thin and hard and plasticky compared to the Serfas tires.


----------



## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Greg Smalter said:


> Based on suggestions in this thread:
> 
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=220536
> 
> ...


lol, I remember that thread. It was one where I was jokingly spamming references to that test by Tour magazine. Forgot how your thread had somewhat similar demands in terms of quality.

Thanks for the take on the Seca RS in comparison to the GP4000 as I was very curious about them.


Referring back to my OP about re-trying a Hutchinson Fusion 2 on front. Today was a positive experience - notably more immediate "bite" (felt) than the GP4000(S). But there's still too many factors to determine if it's the tire compound, temperature, or that 1-2mm difference in width. Noticing in your thread that you apparently dislike the brand leaves me curious to what went ugly.


----------



## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

stevesbike said:


> the problem isn't with the tires. the 4000s grip as well as any clincher.


When Tour tested tires, the GP4000S had the best cornering speed of any... however, there could be a "feel" issue before that point. At any rate, I go down switchbacks at high speed and they feel fine to me. They don't feel particularly "supple" but cornering is fine.

Tour also gave them high marks for low rolling resistance. 

They last longer than any tire I've used. 

All in all, they are hard to beat for all around riding. Lately I've been running Challenge Criteriums... supple, nice ride, corner well, lower rolling resistance than almost anything. Looks like they will last about half as long as the Contis, are not very puncture resistant, and cost the same. So... pick your poison...


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

The Seca RS looks just oddly like and have the same build specs as my Kenda Konstrictors...are they related? All I know is that the Kenda's are more resistant to cuts and flats, handle better, and last longer then any Conti I've ever used and they weigh within 15 grams of the 4000's and less then Gatorskins.


----------



## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

froze said:


> The Seca RS looks just oddly like and have the same build specs as my Kenda Konstrictors...are they related? All I know is that the Kenda's are more resistant to cuts and flats, handle better, and last longer then any Conti I've ever used and they weigh within 15 grams of the 4000's and less then Gatorskins.


Read that some found the Konstrictors to be difficult to mount for some people. While I'm kinda sold on the Seca RS atm, I wouldn't mind input regarding this in case prices go hot.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Ventruck said:


> Read that some found the Konstrictors to be difficult to mount for some people. While I'm kinda sold on the Seca RS atm, I wouldn't mind input regarding this in case prices go hot.


http://www.thefind.com/sports/browse-seca-rs-road-tire Hot prices like these?

The Kenda's are a bit difficult to put on but that's due to the very tough sidewall that's nearly indestructible. But I got use to difficult tires when I lived in the desert of California and had to buy Specialized Aramdillo's that were tougher then the Kenda's, but they were the only tires that would prevent a Goathead from penetrating, so I had to buy a tool called the VAR that would make installing the tires easier yet fit in my seat bag. I also bought a pair of Soma tire levers as I would snap or bend any ordinary tire lever. Kenda's get easier to put on after they've been on a rim for awhile, the Armadillos never got easier. Don't forget though that a tire that is tough to put on means they will be way less likely to come off the rim during a blowout or just a flat then the easy install tires.

The VAR: http://www.cyclebasket.com/products.php?plid=m5b93s281p92&rs=gb

The levers: http://store.somafab.com/stcotile.html

One poster said latex tubes made his tires feel gripper then butyl, but that's imagination at work. I use latex too, but I can't feel any difference using the same tires with butyl or using latex in the handling. The only difference I feel is they ride smoother, like comparing latex with 100psi against butyl with 75psi. Some people think that the smoother ride is feels faster, but all their feeling is a smoother ride, and some think they handle better but again it's the illusion brought on by the smoother ride.


----------



## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

For commuting, I've always liked the Continental GP 4 Seasons or Gatorskins in a 25c, which I run on my Open Pro wheelset. Not the most supple ride, but they are definitely utility tires that get the job done. I use the previous season's commuter tires for early season (April/May) training before the street sweepers have cleared the roads of all of the sand and glass left from the winter. No use in trashing good tires on bad roads.

I've had really good luck with Vittoria Rubino Pros/Pro Slicks over the last couple years as my race/training tire. Hopefully that continues with the 150tpi Pro III versions. I've been ordering them from Ribble, which has been around $20 a tire cheaper than I can get them locally. I will be running 25c Pro Slicks on my regular wheelset (Neuvation R28s) and 23c Pro Slicks on my new wheelset (HED Kermesses). When those wear out and my form peaks towards the end of the season, I'll move to 23c Open Corsa Evo Slicks. 

For my TT bike, I'm going to run Vittoria Pave EVO CGs in a 24c on my Cane Creek 50mm carbon wheels, since our usual TT course is kinda bumpy. As a backup, I have a set of Rubino Pro Slick tubulars waiting in the wings. For training, have my old Neuvation M28 Aeros with some Zaffiro Pro Slicks in a 25c. For me with TT tires, it's less about aero than it is about ride quality/durability.

Maybe it was bad luck, but I cut several sets of Michelin Pro Race 3s to shreds, which wasn't exactly cheap. Likewise, the Bontrager R3 Roads/Race X Lites I had didn't float my boat. I had a much better experience with Continental GP4000s, but not in any way significantly better than the Rubinos to justify the added expense. I guess it really boils down to the road conditions you see, your weight, and your riding style.

Now that I look at it that way, I just realize a have a whole boatload of new tires. Retailler coupons are dangerous, dangerous things.


----------



## Greg Smalter (Jul 16, 2005)

Ventruck said:


> Noticing in your thread that you apparently dislike the brand leaves me curious to what went ugly.


I don't hate Conti (I did purchase the G4000 S recently). I think if you read the thread I had at least one dislike with just about every brand. But, they do have cosmetic tread, they cost a lot (and thus you have to get them on sale, so it takes extra effort), and they don't ooze the same quality as the Secas. If I'm being completely objective, though, I can't say that the Contis are worse in any way.

Hutchinson is another story. More flats on those than all other tires combined. My friends had the same experience. I'm sure they have some tires that don't suck, but they've demonstrated that they are willing to distribute ones that do.


----------



## chocy (Feb 4, 2009)

froze,

I am not saying that it will have quantifiable improvement in performance. But if GP4000 in fact does not have less performance in cornering but it feels like it has less grip, then smooter ride from Latex is just what the doctor ordered interms of reducing the perception of less grippy handling. I do feel that latex ride does give you a bit more confidence on the road exactly due to that smoother ride but not necessarily has more grip.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

chocy said:


> froze,
> 
> I am not saying that it will have quantifiable improvement in performance. But if GP4000 in fact does not have less performance in cornering but it feels like it has less grip, then smooter ride from Latex is just what the doctor ordered interms of reducing the perception of less grippy handling. I do feel that latex ride does give you a bit more confidence on the road exactly due to that smoother ride but not necessarily has more grip.


There has been a study using various brands of tires, though I have no way to confirm the accuracy of this study, that showed that latex reduced rolling resistance (measured in watts used) in all the brands...but only by a very small percentage over ultralight butyl racing tubes. That study did not rate handling but did mention that they felt handling was the same. However there are others like Sheldon Brown and Jobst Brandt who believe latex does nothing to reduce rolling resistance and in fact they say butyl tubes work better in clinchers but latex works better in sewups. 

The only thing I know is that latex feels smoother at 100psi then butyl pumped to 75.


----------



## al0 (Jan 24, 2003)

Unfortunately tests show up to 10 watt difference in the rolling resistance of between comparable tire brands (e.g. Conti and Schwalbe). See TOUR magazine test reports (I have published experts from them in this very forum). It is quite comparable to the difference in the wind resistance between "fancy" and true aero wheels.





Kerry Irons said:


> Don't kid yourself. First of all, it's been shown conclusively that people cannot accurately determine tire performance by "feel" during riding. And for every high end tire there are lovers and haters. In practice, there is not that much actual performance difference between comparable tire brands. While one tire may feel different than another, that is no proof that it somehow performs better or worse.
> 
> My recommendation is to chose your tires based on what you can find on sale and what colors appeal to you (if that makes a difference).


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

al0 said:


> Unfortunately tests show up to 10 watt difference in the rolling resistance of between comparable tire brands (e.g. Conti and Schwalbe). See TOUR magazine test reports (I have published experts from them in this very forum). It is quite comparable to the difference in the wind resistance between "fancy" and true aero wheels.


Interesting, because every test I've ever seen showed the Deda Giro d'italia from an older test, see: http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-1503651.html 

Then in a more recent test Velo Flex Record with latex tubes came out with the lowest resistance, note where the Conti 4000 that won the tour test came in at; see: http://www.biketechreview.com/tires_old/images/AFM_tire_testing_rev5.pdf

Either these two test have a vested interest in a particular tire brand which makes sense with a magazine, or the science behind the testing is unproven and unreliable.


----------



## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Road tests*



al0 said:


> Unfortunately tests show up to 10 watt difference in the rolling resistance of between comparable tire brands (e.g. Conti and Schwalbe). See TOUR magazine test reports (I have published experts from them in this very forum). It is quite comparable to the difference in the wind resistance between "fancy" and true aero wheels.


There's certainly more to a tire's performance than just rolling resistance, and you have to be somewhat cautious about smooth drum rolling resistance numbers in their translation to normal road surface conditions.


----------



## al0 (Jan 24, 2003)

Deda Giro was tested in pre-4000S times, in that test Conti tires (GP-3000 and some other that I cannot remember anymore) have shown pretty bad results on the rolling resistance.

And yes, in the last TOUR test Veloflex Record was the best on the rolling resistance with the GP4000RS as close next. But both of them are pure race-day tires (especially Veloflex Record which puncture protection is next to nothing) - and here we discuss (more or less) all-rounders. 



The link posted by you is really interesting and it would be really nice to discover why test results differ so much in it and in TOUR tests.




froze said:


> Interesting, because every test I've ever seen showed the Deda Giro d'italia from an older test, see: http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-1503651.html
> 
> Then in a more recent test Velo Flex Record with latex tubes came out with the lowest resistance, note where the Conti 4000 that won the tour test came in at; see: http://www.biketechreview.com/tires_old/images/AFM_tire_testing_rev5.pdf
> 
> Either these two test have a vested interest in a particular tire brand which makes sense with a magazine, or the science behind the testing is unproven and unreliable.


----------



## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Michelin Pro Race 3's.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

As one poster said, he just buys whatever is on sale without regard to the fancy high tech rolling resistance tests, I do the same because after 40 years of riding I can't tell any difference except when I had to buy the really heavy Specialized Aramdillo's. And for some reason back in the late 80's I bought a set of Advocet racing tires because they were rated very low in the resistance factor but to me they felt slow, never could figure that one out.


----------



## al0 (Jan 24, 2003)

Kerry Irons said:


> There's certainly more to a tire's performance than just rolling resistance,


Sure, I was just pointing out that the *substantial* differences between tires of "the same level" exist. 



> and you have to be somewhat cautious about smooth drum rolling resistance numbers in their translation to normal road surface conditions.


Yes, absolute numbers may (and would) differ there are good chances that relative order would be the same.


----------



## al0 (Jan 24, 2003)

Save the rolling resistance (which may matter if you are racing) there are other differences - like wet grip or tire feedback in the "border" area - both of which directly affect your safety.


----------



## teddysaur (Dec 30, 2004)

You can try out the new Michelin Optimum with specific front and rear 25mm. The front is basically Pro3 Grip and the rear is Krylion Carbon I think.

I previously was running pro race 3 front and back. The rear worn out quickly and had a few rear slips going downhill from sudden braking. Fortunately, the rear was able to grip back quickly avoiding deadly accident. The front was still going strong and so I changed a new pro race 3 for the rear.

Shortly after, I changed to a new wheelset and had Serfas Seca front and back. The tires were less smooth but it was the most durable tires I ever had. After using for over 1.5 years, it still did not show any sign of wearing out however it did had cuts. For some reason, I did not have great confident cornering and hard braking with these tires.

Lately, I was tired of riding Seca RS and so I swapped the front with pro race 3 and rear with Krylion Carbon 25mm. The first ride was incredible. The cornering and braking were like nothing I felt before. E-braking did not show any slipping on the rear. It may be the additional surface area with the road. The tires also exhibit less bouncing during cornering and giving me much better cornering confident. I'm glad to switch back to Michelin combo.

I tried the GP4000s for a short period 3 years back so I cannot give overall impression. The only noticeable thing is the plastic feel Ventruck mentioned.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Teddysaur, when a person buys tires specifically one type for the front and a different type for the rear, your all but eliminating moving the front to the rear when the back wears out. Thus your forced to ride on the front longer which could lead into a greater likely of a front blowout that could result in an accident. Please note, I used the word could several times, not would. It also means you would have to spend more money for tires because now you have to buy a pair of tires when the rear wears. And as you know a set of Conti's GP Attack and Force will set you back $112 at Amazon and around $135 at my LBS. Tires like what you have and the Conti's will easily cost you $13 a mile, way more then the cost of driving my 79 Z28 that gets 14 miles per gallon including wear and tear!! How did I come up with that figure? I actually tried a set of the Conti's and they were completely worn out in 1,600 miles.

So I'm not into tires where you have to buy two, a matched set, and designed to run one different on the front and a different one on the rear.


----------



## teddysaur (Dec 30, 2004)

froze said:


> Teddysaur, when a person buys tires specifically one type for the front and a different type for the rear, your all but eliminating moving the front to the rear when the back wears out. Thus your forced to ride on the front longer which could lead into a greater likely of a front blowout that could result in an accident. Please note, I used the word could several times, not would. It also means you would have to spend more money for tires because now you have to buy a pair of tires when the rear wears. And as you know a set of Conti's GP Attack and Force will set you back $112 at Amazon and around $135 at my LBS. Tires like what you have and the Conti's will easily cost you $13 a mile, way more then the cost of driving my 79 Z28 that gets 14 miles per gallon including wear and tear!! How did I come up with that figure? I actually tried a set of the Conti's and they were completely worn out in 1,600 miles.
> 
> So I'm not into tires where you have to buy two, a matched set, and designed to run one different on the front and a different one on the rear.


Hi Froze, Unfortunately I have been brainwashed by many people that swapping the worn rear to the front is considered more likely to a blowout especially heavy braking. I did have good luck by following this advise so far. If the front shows signs of aging or disintegration before worn out, I will change it. Beside, I find it too troublesome to do the swap.

You don't have to buy the Michelin Optimum tires in pairs. They are sold individually (front or rear) in probikekit.

$13/miles is definitely very expensive for any tires. The conti tires must have cost you $20,000 per pair. Michelin tire costs less at $45 per tire. The mileage is $0.03/miles (based on 1,600miles). My mileages is about 2-3000miles for the rear and twice for the front.


----------



## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

teddysaur said:


> Shortly after, I changed to a new wheelset and had Serfas Seca front and back. The tires were less smooth but it was the most durable tires I ever had. After using for over 1.5 years, it still did not show any sign of wearing out however it did had cuts. For some reason, I did not have great confident cornering and hard braking with these tires.


Those are the tires I ultimately settled on. I can relate to the smoothness comment. From just an aesthetic view, the color lines are far from straight. But beyond that, I noticed the tire in general is very imperfect in profile/shape. I did consider that these were just defects, and took a week to make a conclusion. 

Conclusion was that, they work. I'm assuming this is what ~$35 per tire will get me. The smoothness of the ride doesn't seem to reflect that out of round profile (as in no notable bump rhythms), but the general compliance of the tire's compound. I've never had to replace a tube as well. Basically, it's a tire that surely gets me rolling. Rolling efficiency is something I'd have no concern about at this point.

I'll also agree that the confidence isn't exactly up there. The Seca RS's feel somewhat better than the GP4000's in corners, despite it being easier to lock up the rear.


----------



## jhamlin38 (Oct 29, 2005)

i think vredestein fortezza tri-comps are the cats meow... They lasted me two nice spring/summers in Beautiful Central New Jersey on roads in considerable disrepair and have been durable, and seem noticeably smoother than the conti's.


----------



## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

I use GP4000s and they are great tires. However, I've found that I can get the same durability and performance out of the Vredestein Fortezzas for less money. That says a lot considering I'm 215 lbs. 4000s are supposed to weigh a little less but I can't tell the difference other than in my wallet.


----------



## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

Lol...I moved past my GP4k to another one. :Yawn: 

I'm just sticking with what I know works. It would suck if I moved to another brand and started getting flats.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

AvantDale said:


> Lol...I moved past my GP4k to another one. :Yawn:
> 
> I'm just sticking with what I know works. It would suck if I moved to another brand and started getting flats.


You know, there is a lot of truth to that statement. That's what I've done for years with a lot of things. I've found a few tires that work for me, I initially bought a pair of Kenda Konstrictors on a close out sale for $18 each and was taken by surprise quite frankly by their performance, I wasn't expecting them to be all that great. But after I rode on them for 3 weeks and not one flat or cut I ordered 3 more pairs and used one on another bike; now after 1800 miles on one of the sets I've had no flats and only got cut on the tire with no penetration of the belt. I did beef up the cut area by putting a piece of tire boot on the backside and filled in the cut with superglue. And these tires handle great so there's been no issues in that area either.

I tried Con't's many times over the last 40 years and always was disappointed, either in the wear or durability or lack of adequate flat protection, and their sidewalls have always been suspect. The last set I tried were the Conti GP4000 and wasn't impressed. 

But if you search the internet for specials you can find tires that are top named brands in the 1/2 off range. Usually either JensonUSA, PricePoint, Nashbar, Performance, or Niagra will have the best deals in closeouts or discontinued items. I've always watch Tires Direct too but lately they have not had has large of price reductions like the others. Right now JensonUSA has some real good discounts on MTB tires. PricePoint has quite a few good deals on road tires like the Hutchinson Fusion 2 Tri tire that retails for $64 for $24.98 and the Ultra and Tour De France for $5 more. I ordered a set of the TDF's today in fact to try them out next season on another bike.


----------



## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

The only tires I've ever encountered that had the long wear life of the GP4000 Contis were the Vredestein Fortezzas. Seriously, that says a lot considering i ride 700x23s and I'm 215 lbs. No othewr tire that I've used has lasted as long as those two. Correction: Gatorskins lasted longer but they weren't very attractive to me. My white Specialized looked okay with them but my other bikes are matte black and the gatorskin sidewalls look nasty on those bikes. The worse tires I've used were the Hutchinson Fusion 2s and all of the Kenda tires. They didn't last very long.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

terbennett said:


> and all of the Kenda tires. They didn't last very long.


What models of Kendas did you try? I have three different Kendas on several of my bikes. The MTB has Kenda Kwest, a commuter tire but I use it for sorts of stuff, has been extraordinarily long lasting. The Kwest is 5 years old about 1100 miles of trails and streets plus 3,000 of trainer miles on it (on the rear) and hardly shows any signs of wear nor any cracks for being 5 years old. The Kwest was also given an over all 4 1/2 star rating on MTBR and Amazon, and 5 stars on Buzillions.

I have a Kenda Kwick Roller Sport on the front of the MTB which I got at the same time I got the Kwest but that looks new with only 1100 miles on it. And no flats on that one either. This tire has 3 star rating, I haven't had it long enough to rate it above or below that.

The other Kendas are Konstrictors road tires, and the set with the most miles has 1800 with no flats, and the only cut was on the front which didn't penetrate the cord but for safety reasons I filled the tread with Superglue and put a small piece of a tire boot behind it. This set of tires "appear" that the rear is about 1/2 worn and the front a lot less worn obviously. RBR gave the Konstrictors an overall 4 star rating.

Those three Kenda's are the only ones I've tried, but I'm more then happy with them. Having said that I only buy tires that I find that are deeply discounted and only those with good reviews. I got the Kwick Rollers for $8 (retail $26), and the Kwest for $11 (retail $30), and the Konstrictors for $18 (retail $40). I thought the Konstrictors were way better then the GP4000's which I consider to be only a 3 star rated tire, but RBR rated them 3 1/2. 

Overall though if you don't take my or your word for it, the Kenda Konstrictors are higher rated then the Conti GP4000's.


----------



## martinrjensen (Sep 23, 2007)

I may believe that I can't tell the difference in performance between tires, but I'm betting I can tell the difference between feel in some tires. I am sure I could tell the difference between my Conty GS 4000s's, my tubeless Hutchinson's, and my Vittoria Pave Evo CG. Don't know which is higher performance but I know which tire I like riding on best.


Kerry Irons said:


> Don't kid yourself. First of all, it's been shown conclusively that people cannot accurately determine tire performance by "feel" during riding. And for every high end tire there are lovers and haters. In practice, there is not that much actual performance difference between comparable tire brands. While one tire may feel different than another, that is no proof that it somehow performs better or worse.
> 
> My recommendation is to chose your tires based on what you can find on sale and what colors appeal to you (if that makes a difference).


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

martinrjensen said:


> I may believe that I can't tell the difference in performance between tires, but I'm betting I can tell the difference between feel in some tires. I am sure I could tell the difference between my Conty GS 4000s's, my tubeless Hutchinson's, and my Vittoria Pave Evo CG. Don't know which is higher performance but I know which tire I like riding on best.


You know what's crazy about this, is that according to web site that did testing on rolling resistance of various mid to high end tires. The GP4000's were rated amoung the HIGHEST in rolling resistance. People's minds play games and start thinking weird stuff, especially when a tire rides smooth like the GP's. 

http://www.bikequarterly.com/images/BQ64TireTest.pdf


----------



## mudge (May 15, 2010)

Conti GP4000 = great tire.
Spec. SWorks Turbo TUBELESS = better tire.

YMMV


----------



## brewster (Jun 15, 2004)

I have 2 sets of GP4000 tires hanging on the wall with sidewall punctures. They are nice tires before they failed. I rode Michelin SuperComp and ProRace for years. The tread cuts very easy exposing the chords. Also nice riding tires. I had Hutchinson tires once, They were horrible. They rode like hard plastic and had paper thin sidewalls hardly any material on the riding surface. Vittoria Rubino tires are heavy duty, nice riding, durable, pretty economical, but heavy compared to other tires. I grew tired of dropping $100 for tires that don't hold up. Currently, I like Maxxis Detonator. They are $60/set, well made, come in several colors, ride comfortably, and so far seem very tough. They are not as common as some brands, but they strike a very good balance for me.


----------



## King Arthur (Nov 13, 2009)

*Tires*



Ventruck said:


> Recently had my brake pad+cartridge slip and case a slow un-threading of my front GP4000S's (25) tire (bead) I do have a "stand-in" from the neglected trainer bike, but have been thinking about what I'll do next.
> 
> Now generally, I like the GP4000S. Been praising/defending them in a few threads, never lost control in them, let me run stupid-low pressures when I wanted, only flatted when I really rode hard over some crude ****, and roll as fast as I can power the bike. However, I could also say I used to "love" them as opposed to just like them with realized dislikes towards them: the tread is stupid, feels the front grip feels lacking at times - something that is commonly said of these tires. To be clear, the front grip actually reigns over other tires I've used in the wet, but in the dry it's a different story.
> 
> ...



I like the Vredestein series of trifortezza tires. The aforementioned tires have a bit more resistance to the goatheads (cause me numerous puncutures) when I ran the conti attack/force tires. Also didn't like the ride of got from the attack - force set. The ride I like are the ones that are somewhat soft, but can spin up easy. The Vred's do this form me. Just my humble opinion.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

brewster said:


> I have 2 sets of GP4000 tires hanging on the wall with sidewall punctures. They are nice tires before they failed. I rode Michelin SuperComp and ProRace for years. The tread cuts very easy exposing the chords. Also nice riding tires. I had Hutchinson tires once, They were horrible. They rode like hard plastic and had paper thin sidewalls hardly any material on the riding surface. Vittoria Rubino tires are heavy duty, nice riding, durable, pretty economical, but heavy compared to other tires. I grew tired of dropping $100 for tires that don't hold up. Currently, I like Maxxis Detonator. They are $60/set, well made, come in several colors, ride comfortably, and so far seem very tough. They are not as common as some brands, but they strike a very good balance for me.


AMEN!! I too grew tired of expensive tires not holding up. why would a person drop $70 plus on a tire only to have it last 1500 to maybe 2000 miles? Would you do that with your car? Lets say you got 5,000 miles, a bit of a stretch I know, but lets just say that. The average car tire last 50,000 miles and cost $130, but over the same number of miles your willing to spend $700 per tire on a bicycle? Would you spend $700 for each tire on your car? Only to watch that car tire fail short of the rated miles due to sidewall or road hazard frequently? Hell, I don't spend near that much for racing tires for a car I have!!


----------



## Cpk (Aug 1, 2009)

froze said:


> The average car tire last 50,000 miles



not mine


----------



## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

I wouldn't rate my GP4000s as a low rolling resistance tire, for me it offers the best rolling resistance I can get in a tire that I don't have to worry about during a race.

I've ridden plenty of thin supple tires that were fantastic and zippy and I still ride them, but I won't recommend them because it takes little of nothing from road debris to cut them to shreds. 

A lot of people have really nice clean roads to ride and I count myself in that category, but when I go home and train 200 miles from my house the sharp rocks and thorns cut even my gatorskins up really quick. I usually pack an extra couple of tires and half a dozen tubes to get me through a seven day week and then patch all the tubes and tires when I get back home.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

heathb said:


> I wouldn't rate my GP4000s as a low rolling resistance tire, for me it offers the best rolling resistance I can get in a tire that I don't have to worry about during a race.
> 
> I've ridden plenty of thin supple tires that were fantastic and zippy and I still ride them, but I won't recommend them because it takes little of nothing from road debris to cut them to shreds.
> 
> A lot of people have really nice clean roads to ride and I count myself in that category, but when I go home and train 200 miles from my house the sharp rocks and thorns cut even my gatorskins up really quick. I usually pack an extra couple of tires and half a dozen tubes to get me through a seven day week and then patch all the tubes and tires when I get back home.


I'm sure you have your reasons, but why would you ride on such thin flat prone tires? Why not ride on a tougher tire like the Specialized Aramdillo series, the Panaracer Pasela, the Schwalbe Marathon's, or other such tires. I've had way better luck with Kenda Konstrictors then any Conti I've ever tired including the Gatorskins or the the GP4000's, there more supptle then the Armadillo though not as tough. I destroyed many tires in the desert of California due to goatheads, and the only tire that would last was the Armadillo; in fact I went from 2 to 3 flats a ride down to 0 flats in about 15,000 miles (the tires lasted about 6,000 miles). I never tried the Panaracer or the Schwalbe but heard good things about them.

The Armadillo is probably one of the toughest tires on the market, it incorperates 3 layers of protection. The first layer is a Aramid subtread belt ply that extends from bead to bead making the sidewall the toughest sidewalls on the market, so tough you can ride it flat; the second layer is impregnated with elastomer to seal microscopic gaps in the kevlar belt ply and is only in the tread area; the third is a synthetic cap belt ply similar to a Mr Tuffy which extends from bead to bead with the thickest area under the rubber tread area. Then they use a thick hard rubber tread like the Schwalbe uses.


----------



## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

Froze I've never ridden the Armadillos. 

I have used the Mr. Tuffy tire liner and they work great. I use those on my current commuter and on my mountain bike and never get flats.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

heathb said:


> Froze I've never ridden the Armadillos.
> 
> I have used the Mr. Tuffy tire liner and they work great. I use those on my current commuter and on my mountain bike and never get flats.


What's weird, is when I use to live in the desert where those goatheads were plentiful, is that the Mr Tuffy would not stop them from penetrating an ultralight tire with a kevlar belt! I still got at least a flat every other ride with the Tuffy strip. When I went to the LBS (Action Sports) in Bakersfield frustrated they sold me the same tire they train and race on and that was the Specialized All Condition! People on this and other forums say that those tires are too heavy to race on, but Action Sports had a RAAM team, and they won the 4 person RAAM race in 01 riding the entire race on those very same tires. 

They are harsher riding then normal tires due to the flat resistant belts they put in the sidewalls, but remember the tire is all about preventing flats and destructive tire damage from garbage you might run into. So in that pursuit you do pay a penalty in weight and ride, but if your roads are littered with trash and goatheads it's worth the penalty. However due to the way the tire is constructed you can safety run these tires with about 10 to 15 psi less then a regular tire and that cushions the ride a bit more. I routinely ran those tires with 90 on the front and 95 on the rear and I weigh 165 pounds.

By the way some side notes. You could use a lighter 220 gram (average training weight) tire, add 110 gram Mr Tuffy and a 120 gram thorn resistant tube and be around 450 grams; or just get a Armadillo that weighs 403 grams plus an ultralight tube at 70 grams and not have the hassle of the strip. When using a Mr Tuffy you need to use a thicker tube because the strips edge will eventually wear a hole into a ultralight tube even if you sand down the edge. Thus the Mt Tuffy can actually cause a flat! Then the hassle of having to deal with the strip on the side of road after a flat is somewhat frustrating.

Second note is Slime tubes are worthless in a road tire. Slime will seal a leak once the pressure exceeds about 70 psi. The higher pressure simply blows the Slime out of even the smallest hole. Of course you could limp home with about 60psi in the tire but then risk snake bites all the way home. Also Slime tubes Presta valves are the worst valves I've ever used, they only hold up to about 6 or so pumpings before they bream. Also Slime will gum up the Presta valve so when you do have a flat you have difficulty getting air into the tube; and once you have a leak you end up with green goo and stains all over the inside of your rim.

Once I left the haven of goatheads I use a lighter tire now called the Kenda Konstrictor and so far after 1800 miles I have not had one flat. The Konstrictor easily beats any Conti road tire in flat resistance.


----------



## MShaw (Jun 7, 2003)

I don't think the response I posted up earlier came thru:

Basically, yer training on these things. Buy whatever's on sale and ride em till they die. If ya like em, buy more. If not, move on to something else.

For example: Michelin Hi Lite Prestige tires were on sale at PBS for $20-ish each so I bought a pair. They seemed to ride OK. Didn't flat too much. Wore like iron. So I bought em for all my wheels. Now, I have a pair of GP4000s on one wheelset, Michelin Pro Race 3s on another 2, and a pair of Ritchey Pro tires on the Ritchey wheels. They all go round and round... 

Best riding cheep tire I've found: Vredstein Fortezza SEs that PBS sells. Ride similar to a CX/CG, but at a third the price.

Worst? Armadillos. Ugh. Didn't flat tho!

Next up? Specialized Mondo somethingoranothers. 

M


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

.....


----------



## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Right now I think Vittoria Paves are the best clincer out there. 

The problem with my take on tires is that when ever I buy something new to try that means I'm comparing those fresh to whatever I had before all worn out. So pretty much every tire I try is the greatest until they wear out and I try something new.

I'd really need to try them all new back to back to be objective about it but that ain't going to happen.

I think I'll try Veloflex Corsa next and then those will be the best tire made because I'll be comparing them a beat up pair of Paves.


----------



## OldSkoolFatGuy (Sep 6, 2007)

I really enjoy my Excel sports Gommitalia K's. $79 for the pair. They can be had for less on ebay when I can find them. I have them on all my bikes! I'll get about 3500 miles out of the rear and double that or more on the front. (I don't rotate tires btw)

I'll get the flat gremlin from time to time but patching tubes is easy.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

OldSkoolFatGuy said:


> I really enjoy my Excel sports Gommitalia K's. $79 for the pair. They can be had for less on ebay when I can find them. I have them on all my bikes! I'll get about 3500 miles out of the rear and double that or more on the front. (I don't rotate tires btw)
> 
> I'll get the flat gremlin from time to time but patching tubes is easy.


It seems that Gommitalia has a couple of different tires with the K at the end like the Targa, Logo, Freccia, Blitz, the Galypso, which model do you have? Amazon has the Galypso for $39.95.


----------



## Marty01 (Jun 16, 2010)

anyone ever ask their LBS what`s a hot seller for tires?? as in.. this is what most people in your neck of the woods (and riding the same roads) are using.. your LBS would usually have feedback on the tires from customers in your neck of the woods too ( flats too easy.. they ride like irons... they wear too fast... or I LOVE EM!!!!) wouldnt this be REAL world options? maybe an interwebs forums isnt the best placeto get a tire recommendation... 

here.. mostly people go for flat proof tires that still ride somewhat nice.. but the average age of serious roadies is around 40-45 years old... not may race nor have they ever been bitten by the performance bug.. though there are quite a few $$$ rides being riden..

go south 2 hours (car driving time) and the average age of roadies drops a good 20 years.. and EVERYONE wants the fastest tires money can buy.. so super light flat-tastic tires is what sells like the dickens!.. flat-resistant tires?? the LBS doesn`t even stock em!!


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

I don't ask because 9 times out of 10 they'll sell you whatever tire makes them the most amount of profit.


----------



## MShaw (Jun 7, 2003)

froze said:


> I don't ask because 9 times out of 10 they'll sell you whatever tire makes them the most amount of profit.


That's one heck of a cynical attitude. 

I'll say at least in the LBS I manage, I'm looking at what's best for the customer. We make a few $$ on em all, so as long as you're happy AND KEEP COMING BACK, its all good.

M


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

MShaw said:


> That's one heck of a cynical attitude.
> 
> I'll say at least in the LBS I manage, I'm looking at what's best for the customer. We make a few $$ on em all, so as long as you're happy AND KEEP COMING BACK, its all good.
> 
> M


I wish you were my LBS!!!!!!!!! I'm serious!! There has been only 3 LBS's in the last 45 years and 7 different cities I lived in that were any good and would sell you what was the best for the customer..ie you. One was Hazards in Santa Barbara, CA; the other was in Covina, CA but I can't remember the name plus it's out of business; and the last one was in Bakersfield, CA called Action Sports. But all the other places I lived including here in Fort Wayne IN have been jokes. Now there is a new one here in Fort Wayne called RediBike Cycling that I'm monitoring and it seems promising but the selection is small, but it's too new yet to make a determination.

I already know most of the time what I'm looking for anyway, and I can get better deals off the internet then I can in any bike shop. But if I go into a bike shop and they do deal with me in an honest way then I will buy whatever it was I was looking for from them because they took the time to answer my questions.


----------



## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

Ultremo R1 looking forward to ZX with vredestein latex tubes...1 flat in 2500 km......nothing faster but tub's


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

If you do a search on the internet the Vredestein's have been deemed more fragile then other brands, with the least amount of problems coming from the Michlelin Latex tube. A lot of tubs come with the Vredesteins and the Challenger latex tubes because they are lighter then Mich's. I ride on the Mich latex in my clinchers and I can tell the difference in the ride quality vs same bike same tire using ultralight butyl. Even though there have been test to show latex is about 1/2 a watt faster then ultralight butyl you can't feel that difference. But I'm not riding them for the extra "speed", I'm riding them for comfortable ride. Latex at 100psi feel like butyl at 70!

By the way, latex tubes are not difficult to patch as some forum sites I saw mentioned, I patch them just like I do with butyl using Park glueless patches and they hold just fine. I do nothing special and use nothing special.


----------



## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

Schwalbe Durano. A few hundred miles, so far zero flats, feel good. Got the 25s and use less air. Very happy. I'd like to try their DDs for my summer tire.


----------



## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

froze said:


> If you do a search on the internet the Vredestein's have been deemed more fragile then other brands, with the least amount of problems coming from the Michlelin Latex tube. A lot of tubs come with the Vredesteins and the Challenger latex tubes because they are lighter then Mich's. I ride on the Mich latex in my clinchers and I can tell the difference in the ride quality vs same bike same tire using ultralight butyl. Even though there have been test to show latex is about 1/2 a watt faster then ultralight butyl you can't feel that difference. But I'm not riding them for the extra "speed", I'm riding them for comfortable ride. Latex at 100psi feel like butyl at 70!
> 
> By the way, latex tubes are not difficult to patch as some forum sites I saw mentioned, I patch them just like I do with butyl using Park glueless patches and they hold just fine. I do nothing special and use nothing special.


same used to ride the green michs but switched to Vreds ........no hitch so far


----------



## jparr (Jul 27, 2008)

T K said:


> Schwalbe Durano. A few hundred miles, so far zero flats, feel good. Got the 25s and use less air. Very happy. I'd like to try their DDs for my summer tire.


The Duranos are nice. I am using the Durano S on my bike, and the Durano Plus on the GFs. Never a flat on the Durano Plus, and only a handful on the S, but only the rear, and that is when inflated to 100psi+.


----------



## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

teddysaur said:


> You can try out the new Michelin Optimum with specific front and rear 25mm. The front is basically Pro3 Grip and the rear is Krylion Carbon I think.
> 
> I previously was running pro race 3 front and back. The rear worn out quickly and had a few rear slips going downhill from sudden braking. Fortunately, the rear was able to grip back quickly avoiding deadly accident. The front was still going strong and so I changed a new pro race 3 for the rear.
> 
> ...


I got 5000 km out of the Michelin Optimum combo (could have used them for another 1000 km). They are excellent tyres (no problems with side wall cuts). I just suffered 2 flats after a) 150 km and b) 5000 km. Nevertheless I was not always happy knowing that the front tyre yet only weighs in at about 215 gr. That is not much in terms of safety for a real 27 mm tyre (all the 25c Michelin are a true 26-27mm on my Mavic Equipe wheels).

I now ride 25mm (27mm in real) Michelin Krylion Carbon tyres. They are superb too. However, according to tests in magazines they are not the stickiest in wet conditions. 

I only trust Michelin tyres. My next tyres are yet again either Krylions or Optimums. Michelin should reduce the prices for the Optimum a bit so as to increase the market share in the UK (£70 for a pair of tyres in credit crunch times is not a popular measure).


----------



## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

*Long term follow up*

The Serfas Seca RS pair I bought on Oct. 16, 2010 (don't ask how I remember) are showing bright results. I'm considerably riding the same roads and routine distance, have gotten less punctures (2-3, compared to the 5-6 of the GP4000's), and have never felt the front slippery sensation as I did with the GP4000's 4 months in.

Still going to be another 3 months to match the life of the GP4000's where I ultimately quit on them. Starting to see things square off, but not enough to translate into feeling. The Seca RS's really shaped into "softer" slicks over time as opposed to the GP4000's. Next pair is still too soon to think about, but I'm curious about something wider (again, from 23's).


----------



## Gervase (Aug 22, 2009)

Once you have moved past the Conti's GP 4000 S and try other tyres.......you will remember why you rode the contis' in the first place.
My wife has done 8,500km on a set with a Pinch flat puncture only. Yes they may have some faults, may not be Quite as fast as some other tyres, blah, blah, blah, but they are still extremely fast tyres, corner exceptionally well, and are very puncture proof.
So for me, they have it all, Mchellin Pro3 may be faster.....and soft as butter, blah, blah. so I think, "it's a long road finding the perfect.........."


----------



## boleiro (Jun 11, 2010)

I got the conti's after short spells with vittoria corsa's and then schwalbe ultremo's. The vittorias were terrible, flated all the time. The ultremo's were my favorite for feel and crazy light. but, after maybe 100 miles I had to brake hard to avoid an accident and the tire wore down to the tube and pop! It was a good loud pop too. they are really thin. I can't afford the race tires on real roads. So my next tire was the GP4000s after lots of research for something that was durable without too much compromise in performance. So far the conti's are just that tire. I find them aesthetically blah (I hate the graphic), but the ride is great and I haven't thought about flats for a long time now. Now I'm thinking about going tubeless, wish continental put out a tubeless tire.


----------



## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

Lol...I kept deciding on whether or not to go with another brand...but ended up staying with the Conti's. I actually ordered a 24c Conti Force rear tire from Ribble (if it ever gets here).
The rear with over 4k on them. The wear holes.









Only cut on the rear tire. I ride alot in the city...this is the worst cut I have. Hoping the tires from Ribble get here soon.









Front with over 3k. Rubber cracking?









I mentioned earlier that I was thinking of the Vittoria Corsa Evos...but I've heard too many mixed reviews on them and I ride through alot of crud...


----------



## Gervase (Aug 22, 2009)

yes the thing with the contis, is that they can look quite cut, and I am sure the glass has done this. I think this Chilli Black compound, is soft and grippy, which is why it cuts, also being rubber, or more like rubber, does tend to crack in the sun, with lot's of exposure. However the Vectran layer, means the glass does not usually go past. Sometimes the glass may even still be trapped between these two layers, but you still don't puncture, and like you say 4k on the back, with wear indicators still showing, usually a rubino for me is utterly shagged by 3-3.5k


----------



## SROC3 (Jul 20, 2009)

I've ridden gators and now on GP4000s....love them. I weigh 145 lbs and ride the HELL out of them....I do flats and climb lots. Tires track well and keep me happy


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Tried other tires and kept going back to Conti? Really? That wasn't my experience, tried other tires and won't ever go back to Conti. 

And pics of those tires with the cracks and pot holes is after only 1800 miles, which is what mine would look like around that same mileage, which is when flats came like crazy, and they only looked worse a few hundred more miles. The crap about them holding up against flats when the tire looked like that is pure nonsense. Ok, that comment will stir up a confrontation that cracked potholed Conti's are just fine, so AvantDale keep riding them and you'll see what I mean. Conti's are over priced junk tires...unless your racing and you need a set of Supersonics for weight reduction.


----------



## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

Lol...I will keep riding them. They have me almost two years and over 4000 miles. I just put a new one on the front and waiting for the Force rear to come in.


----------



## Gervase (Aug 22, 2009)

froze said:


> Tried other tires and kept going back to Conti? Really? That wasn't my experience, tried other tires and won't ever go back to Conti.
> 
> And pics of those tires with the cracks and pot holes is after only 1800 miles, which is what mine would look like around that same mileage, which is when flats came like crazy, and they only looked worse a few hundred more miles. The crap about them holding up against flats when the tire looked like that is pure nonsense. Ok, that comment will stir up a confrontation that cracked potholed Conti's are just fine, so AvantDale keep riding them and you'll see what I mean. Conti's are over priced junk tires...unless your racing and you need a set of Supersonics for weight reduction.


this is just your opinion, and experience. My opinion is contrary to yours, the vectran layer indeed seems to repell glass, etc, and these tyres have something that others don't, A "reputation" for being very puncture resistant.
this has been backed up by the Tour magazine test, which the Conti GP 4000S the best tyre in the world.


----------



## al0 (Jan 24, 2003)

Gervase said:


> this is just your opinion, and experience. My opinion is contrary to yours, the vectran layer indeed seems to repell glass, etc, and these tyres have something that others don't, A "reputation" for being very puncture resistant.
> this has been backed up by the Tour magazine test, which the Conti GP 4000S the best tyre in the world.


Really, by 2 tests - with one (or two?) years interval.
As for puncture resistance - no one flat for more then a year (GP4000 black).
The feel by cornering is somewhat different than e.g. on Michelin or Veloflex, but it is just different and not worse. You just have become used to it. 

That said, Conti sometimes has a bad batches (I hit one of them few years ago with original Conti GranPrix, sent them to Conti and they gave me replacement tires, even while some of tires sent to them were well-used).


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Avante Dale, you deleted your message, but yes I was speaking of the photos taken of your tires. You stated 3K, I assumed you meant 3 kilometers? that's equal to 1800 miles. If you meant 3 thousand, I never had a Conti last that long...close.


----------



## al0 (Jan 24, 2003)

froze said:


> Avante Dale, you deleted your message, but yes I was speaking of the photos taken of your tires. You stated 3K, I assumed you meant 3 kilometers? that's equal to 1800 miles. If you meant 3 thousand, I never had a Conti last that long...close.


 Strange, by me Contis have hold much longer (both original GP and GP 4000) - save a tires from the single unlucky batch that I mentioned in my previous post.

For example, at the moment GP4000 on my rear wheel has almost 4000 miles in it (6300km) and it still perfectly usable. Would serve at least another thousand miles, may be more. And I am rather heavy (210-215). That said roads here (Germany) are quite good, which may contribute, and Michelin ProRace 2 I have ridden before have neat the same (slightly shorter) lifespan .


----------



## boleiro (Jun 11, 2010)

I've only put about 2000 on my conti's so far. However, zero flats in all those miles. which is saying something since I'm quite frequently having to put up with chip seal and bad roads. I can't say this about any other tire I've used. But, I haven't used all of them, so I'm sure there are lots of other brands that are just as good. But, I'll be sticking with my conti's.


----------



## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

*strong shwalbe r1*

3359 kms on ultremo r1 since sept and no problems in the south of France and parisian area..... (albeit one tire slit open -and changed- by a large glass fragment caught in a dilatation crack that would have shredded any tire bike or motorbike......)


----------



## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

froze said:


> Avante Dale, you deleted your message, but yes I was speaking of the photos taken of your tires. You stated 3K, I assumed you meant 3 kilometers? that's equal to 1800 miles. If you meant 3 thousand, I never had a Conti last that long...close.


Yeah...I re-read your post. My numbers are miles,not kilometers ...


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Maybe some day I'll try the Conti's again...maybe I'll be made a fool again, I don't know. But if I do and have the same issues I'll never go back; maybe by the time I get the nerve to try them again they will have improved them further.


----------



## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

Everyone is goin to have different experiences. If mine was as bad as yours ...I'd switch to another brand too.  

In general people are going to stay with what they know works...in my case the Conti's.


----------



## Gervase (Aug 22, 2009)

froze said:


> Cont's lasting 6,000 miles? I've had both the Gatorskin's and the GP4000's and the most I ever got was 2800 miles not even close to 6,000! Before you start thinking I'm overweight, I weigh 164 pounds not tons!! And then the Cont's were so fragile that most of my tires never made it that far without getting destroyed, and the sidewalls were particularly fragile. Sorry to say but Conti's were the worst tires I've ever owned.


I guess it may depend on your roads? here in New Zealand, my wife has had 8500 out of the conti 4000 S and threw them away cause she thought "they must puncture soon! and I don't want to hold up the group when they do", otherwise who knows. The local bike shop guy reckons he gets 10,000 Km, that's 6,000 miles. I thought he was exaggerating too, till my wifes experience.

So far I have had 5,000k on a set, still look good, and I weigh 93kg. 204lb


----------



## stoked (Aug 6, 2004)

I switched to Scwalbe R1 just to try them out when 4000s' needed replacing. Ended up saving 25g from each tire and another 25g by switching to lighter tubes and I could feel the difference on hills due to weight savings on outer most part of the wheel. I run the same psi on R1s and they seem tiny bit more softer. R1s do wear much faster and get cut a little bit faster. No flats on contis or r1s for the past 3 years. Both tires are good and get whatever is on sale.


----------



## Gervase (Aug 22, 2009)

50 gsm, you can tell the difference, are you serious?


----------



## al0 (Jan 24, 2003)

For the hills it does not matter where the weight is. 
It might matter if you8 do a lot of accelerations, like in crits. 


stoked said:


> I switched to Scwalbe R1 just to try them out when 4000s' needed replacing. Ended up saving 25g from each tire and another 25g by switching to lighter tubes and I could feel the difference on hills due to weight savings on outer most part of the wheel. I run the same psi on R1s and they seem tiny bit more softer. R1s do wear much faster and get cut a little bit faster. No flats on contis or r1s for the past 3 years. Both tires are good and get whatever is on sale.


----------



## stunzeed (Jul 27, 2007)

any updates? With spring here, looking to switch to a lighter faster rolling tire then my Conti 4 seasons..thinking durano or ultremo's


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

stunzeed said:


> any updates? With spring here, looking to switch to a lighter faster rolling tire then my Conti 4 seasons..thinking durano or ultremo's


Neither of your mentioned tires got rave reviews, of the two Ultremo got the highest. The Ultremo is a racing street tire so it won't wear as long as a street training tire and will flat more.

I like the Kenda C62 if your looking at racing tires, this tire placed 3rd on the 2006 RAAM by Tinker Juarez thus it's a proven durable tire. Also I use and like very much the Kenda Konstrictor tire. It's a long lasting tire and so far after 1800 miles no flats and appears to be good for at least another 2800 miles, and it handles and rides great, (of course the ride quality is enhanced using latex tubes).


----------



## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

I have some Ultremo DD's, and have about 1800 miles on them. They've been very nice. The rear is squared off a bit, but the tread is still there. There are also tons of cuts on the tire, some very nasty ones, but not a single flat! They were way easier to mount than Michelin or Continental, but I haven't had to do that.
I just got in some black GP4000's in 25's (Was going to get the GP4000S, but they were a bit higher. I'll report my thoughts comparing the two in a few hundred miles or so, once I mount them. Had my DD's actually measured out to 25mm, I'd have definitely stuck with them. That's the only reason I have gone back to the GP4000.


----------



## cinelliguy (Jan 4, 2011)

I like tires that, when I ride I don't notice them, they just do what they are suppose to; I like tires that don't flat out, outside normal causes, I don't like surprises; I like tires that mount easy. I run Easton EA90s with GP4000s and don't use a tire lever to change tires. Nice.


----------



## Cpk (Aug 1, 2009)

stunzeed said:


> any updates? With spring here, looking to switch to a lighter faster rolling tire then my Conti 4 seasons..thinking durano or ultremo's



I thought the Durano was like riding on dead fish. I have a set of Ultremos waiting in the wings and will put them on after the Vittoria Rubino Pro Slicks are done. I like the Rubino's much more then either the Duranos or the GP4000s. Not quite as sure footed or roll quite as well as the Prorace3's but for me they are very close and hopefully more durable.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Easy mount tires does not mean the tire is better, in fact an easy mount tire means it's also easy to come off...think about that for just a bit. Your riding along and suddenly you have a blow out with your easy to mount tire, that easy to mount tire will roll off the rim faster then a difficult to mount tire and thus send you out of control, or at the very least ruin your rim. I don't like easy to mount tires.


----------



## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

I usually ride 4000s, but put on a pair of pro race3s a few weeks ago and have to admit they roll much nicer than the 4000s. They are smoother and have a more supple ride - good grip in corners and wet as well.


----------



## stunzeed (Jul 27, 2007)

stevesbike said:


> I usually ride 4000s, but put on a pair of pro race3s a few weeks ago and have to admit they roll much nicer than the 4000s. They are smoother and have a more supple ride - good grip in corners and wet as well.


I have run Pro 3's exclusively until I moved from Florida to Oregon. I got about 1500 miles out of the Pro 3's and loved them. When i moved here to Oregon I wanted something with a little more flat protection since the roads here have much more crap on them, especially during winter and of course something that performed better in wet conditions.

I have been using the 25mm Conti 4 seasons all winter and have had no issues. With summer approaching I am wanting something that will still have some flat protection and a little lighter then the 4 seasons


----------



## Zachariah (Jan 29, 2009)

Grand Prix 4000s was a snail, compared to the Schwalbe Ultremo R.1 and Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX. Out of the three - the R.1 offers the best compromise of speed, object resistance and mileage.


----------



## boleiro (Jun 11, 2010)

I don't think anyone here would dispute the Ultremo is a better rolling tire. Its just too fragile. Most who have used them can't, or, don't want to replace their Ultremo's every few hundred miles. Thats an expensive proposition. Having replaced two Ultremo's within 500 miles and going strong on just one set of GP4K's for 1400 miles now (not one flat), There is no way anyone could talk me into using ultremos again unless I was racing again. Then I'd just use them on race day. Best all round tire you don't have to worry about... the GP4000s.


----------



## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

*Update on my ultremo R.1*

I've now been riding these (Ultremo R.1 700x23c) since june 2010, i kept them on for winter through snow, and rain, and rode 4000k's on them, they are still going good in the tread department but are now pretty cut up in some places, and with the cuts near the external part of the thread (near the white band in my case) the bubble , delamination problem is surfacing again...........

I wonder if the black models are as fragile???

Schwalbe has an E mail, will see what comes of it.............I'm off to buy a pair of veloflex's corsa or vittoria open cx slicks (but they are heavy), or maybe ultremo zx


----------



## al0 (Jan 24, 2003)

Any proof, please.


Zachariah said:


> Grand Prix 4000s was a snail, compared to the Schwalbe Ultremo R.1 and Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX. Out of the three - the R.1 offers the best compromise of speed, object resistance and mileage.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Zachariah said:


> Grand Prix 4000s was a snail, compared to the Schwalbe Ultremo R.1 and Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX. Out of the three - the R.1 offers the best compromise of speed, object resistance and mileage.


There is proof that the Vit Open Corsa Evo CX is the among the least rolling resistant tire with Deda Tre Giro d'Italia; but their fragile racing tires that will wear out fast, subject to cuts, and very prone to flats. Of the two the Deda is the best for rolling resistance.

But if memory serves me correctly, the Schwalbe Ultremo R.1 VS the Conti 4000S was so close in rolling resistance that one riding the same bike and swapping between the two would never tell the difference.


----------



## al0 (Jan 24, 2003)

Funny, as even tests on this link http://www.biketechreview.com/tires_...sting_rev5.pdf (posted by *you *some time ago) shows that Conti 4000S have lower rolling resistance that both Ultremo R1 and Vittoria EVO CX.


----------



## boleiro (Jun 11, 2010)

FrenchNago, post your feelings about the Veloflex Corsa's. Thats the one tire I've been I've been tempted to buy as of late. 

aside from the tests/reviews, my own experience is that the Ultremos were definitely a more "comfortable" tire at even higher tire pressure. But it wasn't miles above my conti's. I noticed the difference at first, but quickly, didn't feel I was missing anything with the conti's. Really can't comment on rolling resistance as there is no way for me to measure. However, if either tire has a lower rolling resistance, It's not enough for me to notice. The Ultremos were a little more comfy and way light. But the fragility definitely outweighed any benefit.

Final comment based on tires I've owned, if durability is a factor, conti gp4000s is the best option I've come across. If durability is at the bottom of your requirements... then go with Vittoria Corsa Evo.


----------



## Zachariah (Jan 29, 2009)

Loved the Gommitalia Targa K...but, it's not practical for everyday riding. At $100/tire...its strictly a race day tire. But, it feels oh so sweet...


----------



## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

boleiro said:


> FrenchNago, post your feelings about the Veloflex Corsa's. Thats the one tire I've been I've been tempted to buy as of late.
> 
> aside from the tests/reviews, my own experience is that the Ultremos were definitely a more "comfortable" tire at even higher tire pressure. But it wasn't miles above my conti's. I noticed the difference at first, but quickly, didn't feel I was missing anything with the conti's. Really can't comment on rolling resistance as there is no way for me to measure. However, if either tire has a lower rolling resistance, It's not enough for me to notice. The Ultremos were a little more comfy and way light. But the fragility definitely outweighed any benefit.
> 
> Final comment based on tires I've owned, if durability is a factor, conti gp4000s is the best option I've come across. If durability is at the bottom of your requirements... then go with Vittoria Corsa Evo.


In our group rides people ride a bit of everything, conti's, ultremo, vittoria cx and open cx, veloflex tubes and open, michelin PR3. (no hutchinson , no maxxis.........or anything else)


the tubes that stand out are vittoria CX and Veloflex (whatever the model)
the tires that stand out are ultremo, veloflex corsa (on par), vittoria open cx,
conti.....michelin (the most durable being the conti even though i've seen spectacular blowouts in their sidewalls several times, more so than on the other tires))

latex or butyl is strictly personal thing (I like latex because vred 45g is light as can be and durable - more so than michelin coming in at 70g and with weak valves)

I'd like to try open corsa cx slicks and veloflex corsa's to compre them with the ultremo r.1. I have a feeling the ultremo ZX must be nice but given that schwalbe added rubber they must feel stiffer..........(well 10g of rubber is zilch but its rolling weight!!)


----------



## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

boleiro said:


> FrenchNago, post your feelings about the Veloflex Corsa's. Thats the one tire I've been I've been tempted to buy as of late.
> 
> aside from the tests/reviews, my own experience is that the Ultremos were definitely a more "comfortable" tire at even higher tire pressure. But it wasn't miles above my conti's. I noticed the difference at first, but quickly, didn't feel I was missing anything with the conti's. Really can't comment on rolling resistance as there is no way for me to measure. However, if either tire has a lower rolling resistance, It's not enough for me to notice. The Ultremos were a little more comfy and way light. But the fragility definitely outweighed any benefit.
> 
> Final comment based on tires I've owned, if durability is a factor, conti gp4000s is the best option I've come across. If durability is at the bottom of your requirements... then go with Vittoria Corsa Evo.


In our group rides people ride a bit of everything, conti's, ultremo, vittoria cx and open cx, veloflex tubes and open, michelin PR3. (no hutchinson , no maxxis.........or anything else)


the tubes that stand out are vittoria CX and Veloflex (whatever the model)
the tires that stand out are ultremo, veloflex corsa (on par), vittoria open cx,
conti.....michelin (the most durable being the conti even though i've seen spectacular blowouts in their sidewalls several times, more so than on the other tires))

latex or butyl is strictly personal thing (I like latex because vred 45g is light as can be and durable - more so than michelin coming in at 70g and with weak valves)

I'd like to try open corsa cx slicks and veloflex corsa's to compre them with the ultremo r.1. I have a feeling the ultremo ZX must be nice but given that schwalbe added rubber they must feel stiffer..........(well 10g of rubber is zilch but its rolling weight!!)


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

al0 said:


> Funny, as even tests on this link http://www.biketechreview.com/tires_...sting_rev5.pdf (posted by *you *some time ago) shows that Conti 4000S have lower rolling resistance that both Ultremo R1 and Vittoria EVO CX.


Thanks for finding that chart, I was trying to find that site again and couldn't so was going on memory...bad memory huh? But note where 4000S lies in the report, in the lower 25% of a bunch of others. You can get better rolling results using latex tubes, I use latex but not for the rolling resistance but rather for the comfort, they feel like butyl tubes pumped to about 70psi instead of the 100 that I actually put in the latex, and latex repairs easily with glueless patches.


----------



## boleiro (Jun 11, 2010)

Given the durability of the GP4000s, I'd say thats a great ranking (and it actually ranks almost dead middle, 34th out of 65)... ahead of the ultremos and vittoria evo. 

very interesting test. Would the fact that some of the tires are used and some new have any significant bearing on the results?


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

boleiro said:


> Given the durability of the GP4000s, I'd say thats a great ranking (and it actually ranks almost dead middle, 34th out of 65)... ahead of the ultremos and vittoria evo.
> 
> very interesting test. Would the fact that some of the tires are used and some new have any significant bearing on the results?


Their 34th out of 53 clinchers using butyl not 65, look again at the first chart and recount. The other charts start over with latex being used and tubulars, plus a couple of odd mixes. So they rank in the lower third of clincher tires tested.

I've used the GP4000's and didn't have much success with them, in fact they wore out fast and flatted a lot...BUT, that has not been the overall opinion from others. I've have always, for some unknown reason, had poor results from any Conti tire I've used on a road bike, but I have had decent success with a mountain bike tire called the Sport Contact my wife uses (smooth tread not a knobby design). But I find the Kenda Kwest on my MTB to be made sturdier. I usually buy whatever I can find the cheapest and if the reviews rate it rather high. My last set of tires I bought for my road bikes were 4 pair of Kenda Konstrictors on sale for $18 each from $40 that are better made, handles and rides about the same, weighs a tad less, last longer, cuts less and flat way less then the Conti's I've tried.


----------



## Gervase (Aug 22, 2009)

Tour Magazine have rated (in a fairly comprehensive test) GP4000S as the world's best tyre. Frankly with all the tyres I have ridden, i agree they are the best tyre I have ever ridden. This whole post starts as "people who have moved past GP4000S". the thing is I can't understand any one who has ridden these consistently or even swapped back and forth from these top conti's to another tyre, and not seen how good they are. 
considering for example vittoria corsa...yes a fast tyre, faster than the conti's, but not greatly, and then their downside, they are soft, pliable, and prone to puncturing, where as the conti has a reputation of being very puncture resistant.
I used to think Conti's were crap, till i tried the 4000S.
Michelin Pro's are another very fast tyre, again, not much faster, but soft as butter, not worth even contemplating, except for clean race courses'.
Still, if people want to rubbish these tyres, go for it, less demand will keep the prices low.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Gervase said:


> Still, if people want to rubbish these tyres, go for it, less demand will keep the prices low.


Prices low? I don't consider a tire that cost about $60 to be low, and then consider they don't last any longer than other tires, and are not any more flat resistant than other tires, and they don't handle better than other tires to be worth $60...but again I'm cheap and can't see the value in certain stuff like tires.


----------



## Gervase (Aug 22, 2009)

I live in New Zealand, and I quote a NZ$60. it compares favourably to Vittoria Corsa which are $100 plus, Ultremo's are at least $80 plus. Rubino's (vittoria) are $55-65. and the puncture resistance, is legendary, Just look at the reviews, and I mean even the RBR reviews, let alone the magazine or commentary reviews. I could never get more than 3000km out of a rubino before the canvas shows, where as alot of riders get double that, a guy in our local bike shop claims to regularly get 10,000km from GP4000S. 
NO question in my mind that they are fantastic value, especially if you take into consideration durability, if a tyre that cost's $60 goes twice as far as a tyre for the same cost, it's actually half the price.
Handling, just google these tyres, very few tyres are better at handling, the chilli black compound sticks well in wet weather too. these are allround, an excellent tyre.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Like I said, I had a pair of 4000's and they did not last twice as long as any other tire I used before, in fact they only lasted as long as a regular tire of which I average 4,000 miles (if there is no destruction of the tire before then) per tire. Before you think I weigh a ton, I weigh 165 pounds, so I know that's not a factor. But your right, if a tire lasted twice as long I would be sold, but the 4000's don't so I'm not sold; and their flat resistance is no better then other tires and actually worse then Specialized Armadillos and so far worse then the Kenda Konstrictors so I'm not sold on that either. In fact the Armadillos lasted the longest of any tire I've ever used but their heavy. So I can't agree with you based on my experience with 4000s.


----------



## Gervase (Aug 22, 2009)

Not many tyres are going to be more puncture resistant to a specialised armadillo, but then they are probably & i mean seriously approx. 400gsm more per set than GP's. I would compare conti's to other tyres of the same performance, Not armadillo it's just not in the same league, it's more puncture resistant, but then it gets left behind.. For example an armadillo at cornering compared to a C'ont, no contest, even lasting longer, conti's will again outperform. it's like comparing a tank to a hummer.
Check out what most people think, not just me..
http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/wheels/tires-clincher/continental/PRD_411202_2489crx.aspx


----------



## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

boleiro said:


> Given the durability of the GP4000s, I'd say thats a great ranking (and it actually ranks almost dead middle, 34th out of 65)... ahead of the ultremos and vittoria evo.
> 
> very interesting test. Would the fact that some of the tires are used and some new have any significant bearing on the results?


Used tires typically show ~5-10% reduction in Crr.

Note that most of the tires that are tested are race tires... so a middle ranking is above average for tires typically used for training. In fact I don't see anything close to the GP4000S in durability and puncture resistance, that is in the same Crr ballpark.


----------



## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

boleiro said:


> FrenchNago, post your feelings about the Veloflex Corsa's. Thats the one tire I've been I've been tempted to buy as of late.
> 
> aside from the tests/reviews, my own experience is that the Ultremos were definitely a more "comfortable" tire at even higher tire pressure. But it wasn't miles above my conti's. I noticed the difference at first, but quickly, didn't feel I was missing anything with the conti's. Really can't comment on rolling resistance as there is no way for me to measure. However, if either tire has a lower rolling resistance, It's not enough for me to notice. The Ultremos were a little more comfy and way light. But the fragility definitely outweighed any benefit.
> 
> Final comment based on tires I've owned, if durability is a factor, conti gp4000s is the best option I've come across. If durability is at the bottom of your requirements... then go with Vittoria Corsa Evo.


As said in another post they mount real easy, the ride will be discussed further on down the line.......80 mile tomorrow morning should give me a good indication of what they are worth compared to ultremos, and ultimately contis.

i'll be posting it all on my original thread here:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=247835


----------

