# Sticky  Chinese Carbon Thread and Ebay direct version 7.0



## Coolhand

Time to roll out a new thread, as 6.0 is getting a bit unwieldy. Remember please, no counterfeits.


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## Colinwhufc

Got my tracking No from Seki at Ican, Really excited about building my Aero004 (FM206) up with the 5800 105 Group set i got for £298 which i thought was pretty good!!!!
once its hear ill put up lots of pics of the build, Im planing to use it on the London 2 Paris 24 in July.


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## -Jared

Not sure if I should make an entirely new thread for this question or not, sorry if I'm posting in the wrong place, but here goes:

I'm looking for a non-branded/Chinese TT frame that I'll be building with a Chorus mechanical group... Not super picky as far as looks/aero features or price, just something generally time trialish. Here's the tricky part, I would need at a minimum a size 58.

If anyone knows a few sellers to direct me to it would be hugely appreciated. The bit of browsing I did on eBay didn't have anything my size. 

Thanks!


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## Jay561

Ha well the R-002 (R-022) I received is pretty useless to me. Zhongwei sent it with out installing the front derailleur hanger. The frame hasnt even been drilled for the hanger. Pretty surprised, my last frame I received from them is pretty awesome. Now I will be interested to see how they handle this.


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## ian0789

Just wondering if anyone has seen this with the carbon chinese bars. I have had good luck with a few sets but this last pair I got I am kind of annoyed by. I was mounting the stem on the bars with a Ritchey 5Nm torque wrench and carbon paste while I noticed this on the back side of the bars.....







I took a needle and it poked the spot to find its only the clear coat that bubbled so I sanded the spot and put on a coating of clear coat nail polish. It looks normal now and nothing seems to be cracked. Did the coin test and sounds strong. No sounds came from the bars other then the grit making its normal sound from the carbon paste.

Im just not sure what to make of it. Its not directly on a spot that is clamped but there was definitely a raise in the clear coat or bubble. I guess the question is do I ride with them or toss them.... I stopped by my friends shop and he said it was an air bubble as well but he only got to see it after I sanded and re coated it. Other then the pictures I showed in the thread that I sent via text.


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## bvber

Jay561 said:


> Ha well the R-002 (R-022) I received is pretty useless to me. Zhongwei sent it with out installing the front derailleur hanger. The frame hasnt even been drilled for the hanger.


Does it look like this? If so, that's how it's sold. Mine came like that. It's made to be used with front derailleur mounting clamp.


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## Jay561

bvber said:


> Does it look like this? If so, that's how it's sold. Mine came like that. It's made to be used with front derailleur mounting clamp.


That answers it for me. Thanks!


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## OoiTY

Trying to gleam some knowledge from others who have more experience with this than I do. I got a chinese CX frame, and after sawing down the steerer tube, I noticed that the inside of the tube isn't the same material as the outside. I suspect that this is fiberglass. Am I in significant danger of breaking my face with this fork?


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## ian0789

That looks normal, the inside of any carbon fiber is going to look gross and nasty looking. If you cut a frame in half you would see the inside doesnt look anything like what we picture carbon to be. Cheaper carbon is more resin then fiber and it can be a bit more flexible under some conditions but that steer tube looks fine and thick!


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## msedbaue

Hi All,

Lots of information in this thread(s)! I am considering building a Chinese carbon fiber road bike. I have a Domane 2.3 that I ride quite a bit and I would like something a little snappier on the road. I built a Dengfu FM190 Fatbike (25.5 lbs!) that I am incredibly happy with. I was just curious if there is a cross reference sheet out there on what frame models correspond to their name brand frames, for example the FM098 looks a lot like a Venge! Im not certain which model I want to go with yet, 6'4" 180lbs, I ride a 60CM Domane, all my mountain bikes are XLs or 21".

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated!

Here is the FM190!


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## makeitso

ian0789 said:


> That looks normal, the inside of any carbon fiber is going to look gross and nasty looking. If you cut a frame in half you would see the inside doesnt look anything like what we picture carbon to be. Cheaper carbon is more resin then fiber and it can be a bit more flexible under some conditions but that steer tube looks fine and thick!


I don't think he's referring to the inner surface but to the inner 1/3 of the steer tube wall. It almost looks like it has an aluminum sleeve inside the carbon exterior tube.


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## ian0789

Thats not aluminum at all, cut it in half and you will see. There is always dust and gray powder left over from resin and carbon. Steer tubes are thick as heck so there is many layers of both used. I still say its fine but if he is unsure Id stop by a local bike shop and ask what they think of it.


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## Madone74

Hi everyone. It's been a while since I've asked anything on here, but I have a question. Does anyone know of a manufacturer and frame number (i.e. FM***, R***, etc) for a frame the same or very similar to the new Trek Madone 7 series? This being the aero frame/forks with KVF tube shape. 
Thanks in advance.


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## motopazzo

A cross reference sheet is a great idea!


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## Madone74

motopazzo said:


> A cross reference sheet is a great idea!


Totally agree with that. Brilliant idea!


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## TrippHolt

Hey All,

I'm new to RBR, but I've spent the last few weeks reading posts from version 4,5,6. There is a lot of great info, but it seems like the majority of the info I'm interested in is over a year old.

Background: I ride a 58cm 2012 CAAD10. Initially bought the 105 version, but I have been upgrading components as I go. I train hard, and like to race. I prefer the sprints and breakaways instead of the mountains and despise bringing my bike to the bike shop... It always comes back worse then when I dropped it off, so I do all my own wrenching.

I just finished building my 45mm U-Shaped wheelset and I love them... They ride great, and feel faster than my stock aluminum wheels.

At this point I'm ready to leave my CAAD10 attached to the turbo and I'm looking at building my first (of many hopefully) Chinese OE bikes.

I'm pretty sure that I've decided on the "Venge" style frame *SHOCK* (It seems to be one of the most common builds on here), but I was hoping to pull from the vast wisdom on RBR to help me finish this project.

So first things first, what does the collective wisdom say about supplier quality? I'm looking at GreatKeen's GKRF01 (with graphics removed) or Dengfu's FM098. Does anyone have feedback regarding issues with the frame or issues working with the suppliers? Is there another supplier that you all would recommend?

Thanks in advance!


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## makeitso

ian0789 said:


> Thats not aluminum at all, cut it in half and you will see. There is always dust and gray powder left over from resin and carbon. Steer tubes are thick as heck so there is many layers of both used. I still say its fine but if he is unsure Id stop by a local bike shop and ask what they think of it.


Eek, if 1/3 of the tube thickness (not the inner wall surface) is flash resin from poor prep that's pretty scary. As that's definitely not carbon mat. I'd actually hope it's fiberglass over resin.

Ooity: Unfortunately unless you're going to give more info per the manufacturer/seller to see others have done you're a test group of 1.


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## OoiTY

makeitso said:


> Eek, if 1/3 of the tube thickness (not the inner wall surface) is flash resin from poor prep that's pretty scary. As that's definitely not carbon mat. I'd actually hope it's fiberglass over resin. Ooity: Unfortunately unless you're going to give more info per the manufacturer/seller to see others have done you're a test group of 1.


 I cut the leftover tube again to get a closer look. Side note, the tube is a pain to cut.














Terrible cut, but I wasn't wasn't trying to be accurate and was just freehanding it.





















Crush test.







Looks like fiberglass to me. After being crushed, the small piece of tube deforms with a bit of effort, but it still holds its shape for the most part.


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## RVA

Thought I'd share my experience building up my own carbon bike since I used the previous threads extensively while researching my own build. 

I started researching around the new year and with the spring and summer rolling around pulled the trigger on everything about 4 weeks ago. Went with the Velobuild r-022 frame as velobuild got great reviews, this was a popular frame, and fit what i was looking for not being a direct copy of a branded bike and as a plus happened to be one of the least expensive at $450 shipped. Got 38mm U clinchers from farsports as they were also a highly regarded retailer and seemed worth the extra price at $650. Finally got a SRAM Force 22 groupset from Merlin Cycles for about $700 shipped. Other parts were from ebay to finish the build, including a chinese version 3t aeronova bar. Total cost was about $2250 so under my hopeful budget of $2500 and weighed in under 15 pounds. I ran into no issue with any of the retailers and everything was delivered on time if not early and didnt have to pay any import fees. Luckily a friend of mine had everything built at the LBS for free.

Took it out for my first few rides this week and could not be happier. The bike is incredibly stiff, but not uncomfortably so, and handles like a rocket. I previously had a Kestrel Talon (which may have been a size too big?) and it absolutely handles more nimbly, climbs better, and descends just as well. Flat straights may be about even or in the kestrels favor, but overall can say this was certainly an upgrade and will be more fun as well as unique. I've already had someone come up to me in the cafe after my ride the other day and ask me about it. 

Long story short I highly recommend going the chinese carbon route for those looking for a unique, light, and high performance bike on a budget. I cant comment on durability and obviously only time will tell about that.


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## RaptorTC

TrippHolt said:


> Hey All,
> I'm pretty sure that I've decided on the "Venge" style frame *SHOCK* (It seems to be one of the most common builds on here), but I was hoping to pull from the vast wisdom on RBR to help me finish this project.
> 
> So first things first, what does the collective wisdom say about supplier quality? I'm looking at GreatKeen's GKRF01 (with graphics removed) or Dengfu's FM098. Does anyone have feedback regarding issues with the frame or issues working with the suppliers? Is there another supplier that you all would recommend?


I got an FM098 last spring and its been great for me. No real issues working with DengFu. A bit of a language barrier and double/triple checking details of the frame build lead to a fairly lengthy email exchange, but when it was all said and done I got exactly what I wanted. 
5,500 miles later and its still treating me quite well. The stiffness and power transfer were greatly improved from my last bike (cheapo Bikes Direct). I was so pleased with the product that I went back to DengFu for some 56mm deep wheels to complete the aero get-up.


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## TrippHolt

RVA and RaptorTC, do you know how the cross section of the R022 and FM098 compare with the Venge? I think I read somewhere that the FM098 had s much smaller cross section ( different aero profile ). 

Also, what website did you use for velobuild? The website I've been looking at does not seem to have the extensive forum that these threads have mentioned.


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## bvber

TrippHolt said:


> Also, what website did you use for velobuild? The website I've been looking at does not seem to have the extensive forum that these threads have mentioned.


You may want to read these two posts.


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## TrippHolt

bvber said:


> You may want to read these two posts.


bvber,

is there a specific part of the version 6.0 you are trying to direct me to? The first links brings me to page 1 and the second link is apparently forbidden.

I have browsed through and searched the previous version threads. My concern is that much of the relevant discussion is over a year old.


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## RaptorTC

TrippHolt said:


> RVA and RaptorTC, do you know how the cross section of the R022 and FM098 compare with the Venge? I think I read somewhere that the FM098 had s much smaller cross section ( different aero profile ).


I'm not exactly sure. I can measure my 58cm frame if you'd like, but I don't know how it would compare to a Venge and I don't have calipers so the measurements wouldn't be super accurate. 
The good reputation of the FM098 and the fact that it comes in big sizes were the main reasons I went with the frame. The aero aspect is a definite plus, but wasn't the deal-maker for me.


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## RVA

I would agree that the fm098 is very likely more aerodynamic than the r-022 (and i considered doing this build myself), but dont have any way to measure accurately or compare either.


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## bvber

TrippHolt said:


> bvber,
> 
> is there a specific part of the version 6.0 you are trying to direct me to? The first links brings me to page 1 and the second link is apparently forbidden.


That's odd. It works fine from my end via Firefox browser.
Here's first link: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bi...ect-version-6-0-a-272806-216.html#post4804522 (post #5397)
Second link: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bi...ect-version-6-0-a-272806-218.html#post4834170 (post #5450)


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## TrippHolt

bvber said:


> That's odd. It works fine from my end via Firefox browser.
> Here's first link: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bi...ect-version-6-0-a-272806-216.html#post4804522 (post #5397)
> Second link: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bi...ect-version-6-0-a-272806-218.html#post4834170 (post #5450)


Links work with IE but not Chrome :-(

Thank you for the links. Now I'm more scared to go the China route, and will definitely stay away from velobuild (I never liked the thought of paying more for a nicer website anyway). 

Won't paypal buyers protection protect me if there is an issue with the frame?

Greatkeen seems to have good reviews, and working with Jerry is fine (as long as I only ask one question at a time). Has anyone purchased from them lately?

What other options should I be thinking about besides BB type, frame size, and finish?


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## bvber

Direct deal from Dengfu, ZhongWei, FLYXII and Hongfu are said to be reliable. I've had positive experience with ZhongWei direct.


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## msedbaue

Well im getting closer to deciding on a frame. I like the FM098 but I am unsure on long days in the saddle with this geometry? I also like the VB-R-022. Both geometries seem like I could make them work. Any thoughts?


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## TrippHolt

msedbaue said:


> Well im getting closer to deciding on a frame. I like the FM098 but I am unsure on long days in the saddle with this geometry? I also like the VB-R-022. Both geometries seem like I could make them work. Any thoughts?


I was leaning more towards the GKRF01 but since the VB-R-022 is ~$150 cheaper, I may change my mind.


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## trailflow

TrippHolt said:


> I was leaning more towards the GKRF01 but since the VB-R-022 is ~$150 cheaper, I may change my mind.


Have you read this ?
https://i.reddit.com/r/bicycling/comments/1pv8zx/dangerous_chinese_knock_off_bikes_greatkeen_bikes/


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## mattgall

Thinking of going down the chinerallo route.
Any suggestions of companies to use? been looking but there are so many. greatkeen or dengfu but any others that are trusted?
cheers and sorry if this has already been covered.


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## TrippHolt

mattgall said:


> Thinking of going down the chinerallo route.
> Any suggestions of companies to use? been looking but there are so many. greatkeen or dengfu but any others that are trusted?
> cheers and sorry if this has already been covered.


mattgall, that is exactly what we are discussing.


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## TrippHolt

trailflow said:


> Have you read this ?
> https://i.reddit.com/r/bicycling/comments/1pv8zx/dangerous_chinese_knock_off_bikes_greatkeen_bikes/


trailflow, I had not seen that... thank you. I may ask Jerry for references from recent purchases.

FYI to everyone. China is on holiday right now for May day. They will be back to work on May 4.


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## Jakak

TrippHolt said:


> Hey All,
> 
> I'm new to RBR, but I've spent the last few weeks reading posts from version 4,5,6. There is a lot of great info, but it seems like the majority of the info I'm interested in is over a year old.
> 
> Background: I ride a 58cm 2012 CAAD10. Initially bought the 105 version, but I have been upgrading components as I go. I train hard, and like to race. I prefer the sprints and breakaways instead of the mountains and despise bringing my bike to the bike shop... It always comes back worse then when I dropped it off, so I do all my own wrenching.
> 
> I just finished building my 45mm U-Shaped wheelset and I love them... They ride great, and feel faster than my stock aluminum wheels.
> 
> At this point I'm ready to leave my CAAD10 attached to the turbo and I'm looking at building my first (of many hopefully) Chinese OE bikes.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that I've decided on the "Venge" style frame *SHOCK* (It seems to be one of the most common builds on here), but I was hoping to pull from the vast wisdom on RBR to help me finish this project.
> 
> So first things first, what does the collective wisdom say about supplier quality? I'm looking at GreatKeen's GKRF01 (with graphics removed) or Dengfu's FM098. Does anyone have feedback regarding issues with the frame or issues working with the suppliers? Is there another supplier that you all would recommend?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Hi
If you want best for you, just stay away from seller HK Feifan, Joshan, Chinesswalton, Kobe1234 or I don't know which names he also has, since they are well known for changing names after couple of 10 sold frames, etc. in order to cover tracks.
I had a claim for my frame ans I still don't heard from him except with the last e-mail from him old at least 10 days with which he basically told me "F**k off, I am in China what can you do to me"
Stay with reputable sellers and specially avoid the ones which are selling counterfreights, since that kind of sellers don't have any integrity or good "faith" to do honest business.


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## mattgall

ok. it seems to be a mine field and if you look on alibaba or aliexpress i find some are free shipping and some are 85 usd but the frames are the same price? is there a difference in quality of these frames?


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## Jakak

mattgall said:


> ok. it seems to be a mine field and if you look on alibaba or aliexpress i find some are free shipping and some are 85 usd but the frames are the same price? is there a difference in quality of these frames?


All replicas are crappy quality, maybe you find some good, but generelly they don't pass almost any QC while reliable sellers all have QC. If you are lucky you get a decent frameset also as replica, but relying on luck when you are descending 80 kmh is stupid if you ask me.
P.S. Show me one which succesfully managed to claim replica frameset or wheelset or any other part? ...This process with chinese sellers of replica frames is like :mad2:


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## mattgall

So you are saying that all of them are bad? all chinese carbon is rubbish? i have som chineese carbon light bicycle rims that i use on my nomad, guess what after a year of trashing them, oh no damage. yes i could of paid 800 GBP per rim for enves and got the same result but i was happier paying 188 usd each.
Are you talking from actual experience? 
As ive seen from the many forums there are more positives than negatives.
yes all are fully aware that the difference between a branded frame, made in china too probably, will or should have a much more stringent QC but i have witnessed these high cost branded frames break, crack too. Biking at high speeds is inherently dangerous no matter who makes tour frame.


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## trailflow

He's talking about counterfeits i.e. frames and parts with fake graphics and logo's.


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## ms6073

RVA said:


> Went with the Velobuild r-022 frame as velobuild got great reviews


A lot of that has to do with the fact that the Velobuild site owner heavily moderates the site, deleting negative posts and bans forum members without warning for posting as such. :mad2:


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## robt57

RVA said:


> Went with the Velobuild r-022 frame as velobuild got great reviews



Got great review where ? How are you liking rolling on it, and how long/miles has it been rolling If I may ask?

Thanks


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## 00Garza

I have an R-002 with a few thousand miles on it. No complaints other than I cut the steerer too short and need to replace the fork.


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## mattgall

Anyone had any dealings with mudking?


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## SL06

Hi, I have seen people interested to buy the HongFu FM296 carbon frame. I have found that Miracle have also the same Fame MC296, and they specify T800 carbon and lower weight. I am believe that HongFU have the T700 and the t800 version available also and I am waiting for a price to compare.

Anyone, have order yet. I have ride the FM-069 frame on a short distance on a short distance and the steering is very fast, and the frame is very efficient but could be a bit more absorbing for long distance ride. Of course, my friend is heavier than me and is probably very happy. HongFu sells this frame as T1000 carbon, and DengFu have the same but specify T800 carbon. 

Anyone a assemble and ride a FM296 or MC296 and can give us feed back on the ride quality ?


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## pommieyeti

*i have been waiting since octobre last year for a new frame from Jerry*

Jerry at Greatkeen is a joke, also Leanne one of his sellers ive been waiting since October last year. 

He basically said most people buy a new frame if the first one breaks withing the 2 years and i sell them it for half price WTF so why have a warranty then ???

anyway have a look at this and if you do manage to get intouch ask him wheres my replacement frame .

https://www.facebook.com/pages/GreatKeen-Bikes-No-Warranty-Beware/603718279764682

now a happy caad10 rider


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## TrippHolt

pommieyeti said:


> Jerry at Greatkeen is a joke, also Leanne one of his sellers ive been waiting since October last year.
> 
> He basically said most people buy a new frame if the first one breaks withing the 2 years and i sell them it for half price WTF so why have a warranty then ???
> 
> anyway have a look at this and if you do manage to get intouch ask him wheres my replacement frame .
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/GreatKeen-Bikes-No-Warranty-Beware/603718279764682
> 
> now a happy caad10 rider


Thank you Yeti. How was the quality originally?

Also, the greatkeen website now requires a password. My spidy senses are telling me to stay away.


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## 00Garza

pommieyeti said:


> Jerry at Greatkeen is a joke, also Leanne one of his sellers ive been waiting since October last year.
> 
> He basically said most people buy a new frame if the first one breaks withing the 2 years and i sell them it for half price WTF so why have a warranty then ???
> 
> anyway have a look at this and if you do manage to get intouch ask him wheres my replacement frame .
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/GreatKeen-Bikes-No-Warranty-Beware/603718279764682
> 
> now a happy caad10 rider


From the earliest days I started researching China carbon (about 3 years ago), I've heard mixed reports about greatkeen. Mixed meaning some transactions were ok, while others were a nightmare. Long ago I decided to stay away. Enjoy your Caad10!


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## Swen6

Everyone will have different experiences with different sellers. I suspect most of the Aliexpress sellers get their stock from the same wholesalers, it's just how much they try to charge.

I purchased a Pinarello Dogma from greatkeen when Cavendish rode for Sky in his WRC colours. Never had any issues, maybe a little over spray in the BB threads but thats common, even chucked it down the road in a spill on diesel at 20mph+ and all good....arse not so!!!

I purchased an F8 frame from a seller on Aliexpress, really happy with it but had an issue with a cable stop on the frame, the seller would not respond to any emails, was more than willing to pay for the part as the bike was no use without, eventually gave up, spoke to Jerry and and they provided the part i needed for £3, so after care on someone elses product, they get a thumbs up from me.


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## darkpromenade

Hi Everone,

I' thinking of starting the process of buying a CX frame from Dengfu.

Does anyone have a recent, successful contact address for them?

Many thanks

DP


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## cyclist_sg

Hi all,

Just to update that nearly 5,000 km on my FM186, I am pleased to say that the frameset does not disappoint and my cycling experience has been great and a few PBs on Strava achieved through this frameset. 

The BB86 does give some level of stiffness though not overly and the seatpost clamp arrangement is effective and simple. It does not feel twitchy and the wheelbase gives a good amount of stability.

Shenzhen Miracle provides excellent customer service and patient with my customization requests. Definitely a nice buy if you are looking for an aero frame.


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## raudi

need some fit help. I'm thinking of getting the Velobuild R-016 but not sure if I should got for the 52 or the 55. I did the fit calculator on competitive cyclists website and got the following results. 

TT Length 550mm
seat tube range CC 539-545mm
seat tube rabge CT 550-560mm
stem length range 110-120mm



I was thinking the 55cm, but was wondering if I can go for the smaller 52 and run a longer stem just so I can have a more aggressive fit


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## kiwisimon

Compare it to your old bike and go off that. Also you probably should give all the relevant information that you think a frame fitter would need in order to give you a fit. Your question is kind of a nothing question without it.


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## Jakak

pommieyeti said:


> Jerry at Greatkeen is a joke, also Leanne one of his sellers ive been waiting since October last year.
> 
> He basically said most people buy a new frame if the first one breaks withing the 2 years and i sell them it for half price WTF so why have a warranty then ???
> 
> anyway have a look at this and if you do manage to get intouch ask him wheres my replacement frame .
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/GreatKeen-Bikes-No-Warranty-Beware/603718279764682
> 
> now a happy caad10 rider


My point exactly in one of mine previous posts in this thread.
They have the warranty policy just as a selling tool which in practice never exists. In best case scenarion they re-sell you the product with slight discount so that they earn on you twice, nevertheless you are claiming the product under warranty case.
So all various Greatkeens, Cycling jong, Joshan, HK FeiFan, Kode bikes, Konor bikes, Chinesswalton, Joy bikes, etc. are a bunch of scammers who are well awared that they are far far away from you and that basically there is nothing you can do to them...to the contrast to LBS to which you can always go to and require legally actions from you if you are in titled to (warranty case, etc.).
The only thing which helps (within certain time frame) is to dispuite transaction, since as soon as this "Window" closed you can be 99% sure that they won't do anything to help you resolve the issue.
These are at least my experiences


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## SL06

raudi said:


> need some fit help. I'm thinking of getting the Velobuild R-016 but not sure if I should got for the 52 or the 55. I did the fit calculator on competitive cyclists website and got the following results.
> 
> TT Length 550mm
> seat tube range CC 539-545mm
> seat tube rabge CT 550-560mm
> stem length range 110-120mm
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking the 55cm, but was wondering if I can go for the smaller 52 and run a longer stem just so I can have a more aggressive fit



The TT is the most important number. As kiwisimon mention, compare with tour old frame. Their a 2,5 cm difference in the TT length between the 2 sizes, its big. You probably want to aim at a stem lenght between 10 and 12 cm. Having the reach number would be easier. Competitive cyclist calculator is good but dont trusted completely. I might be wrong but Its seems oriented for an agressive (stretched) riding position. If you want something more relax, number might change. You might want to compare the results with the Pedal force calculator. You can set the Saddle height over the saddle in this one.

Your old frame is your best starting point, as long as it fit you well.


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## SL06

raudi said:


> need some fit help. I'm thinking of getting the Velobuild R-016 but not sure if I should got for the 52 or the 55. I did the fit calculator on competitive cyclists website and got the following results.
> 
> TT Length 550mm
> seat tube range CC 539-545mm
> seat tube rabge CT 550-560mm
> stem length range 110-120mm
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking the 55cm, but was wondering if I can go for the smaller 52 and run a longer stem just so I can have a more aggressive fit



You might also want to check the price at Zhongwei, IPlay (IP-306), and carbon speed (CS-306).


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## smihalik

I was getting ready to pull the trigger on a Velobuild R-016, but having read back through the threads on here I'm starting to second guess dealing with them.

Is velobuild to be avoided?

I really the look and weight of the R-016. Geometry doesn't look to aggressive and it will take a Di2 upgrade down the line.

Any thoughts?


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## SL06

smihalik said:


> I was getting ready to pull the trigger on a Velobuild R-016, but having read back through the threads on here I'm starting to second guess dealing with them.
> 
> Is velobuild to be avoided?
> 
> I really the look and weight of the R-016. Geometry doesn't look to aggressive and it will take a Di2 upgrade down the line.
> 
> Any thoughts?


Xiamen Iplay IP-306 and Xiamen Carbon Speed CS-306 sell the same or very similar product to the R-016. The review of the R-016 on the VB web site was in fact originally a review of the IP-306 frame - they change the name in the review when they start there company. If you look in the VB forum, you will see mention of the IP-306.
I believe that Zonghwei is the manufacturer of the R-016. I am not shure if the IP-306 / CS-306 are manufacture by Zonghwei. The IP/CS 306 are from the same manufacturer. Carbon speed is a new company started by previous Iplay employee. Both frame are a mixture of T700 and T800 carbon - its bot clearly stated on their description. 

I have read a fair number of positive and also negative post about Velobuild. I have browse their forum and was negatively impress by the lack of recent post. 

If you are looking for a relax geometry frame the IP / CS306 (R016) seems appreciate, but have limited number of frame size.

You might want to consider also the Miracle trade MT-MC696 (long head tube). 

The FM296 (HongFu) of MC296 (Miracle) are also interesting but with a very slightly more aggressive geometry. Seems available in T700 or T800 carbon. I am aiming in this direction for now because the I have find a better match for my size (more size choice) 

I am also shopping for a new frame. Unfortunately I have not find many review on those frame that I have mention. 

I hope this help...


----------



## bugly64

msedbaue said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Lots of information in this thread(s)! I am considering building a Chinese carbon fiber road bike. I have a Domane 2.3 that I ride quite a bit and I would like something a little snappier on the road. I built a Dengfu FM190 Fatbike (25.5 lbs!) that I am incredibly happy with. I was just curious if there is a cross reference sheet out there on what frame models correspond to their name brand frames, for example the FM098 looks a lot like a Venge! Im not certain which model I want to go with yet, 6'4" 180lbs, I ride a 60CM Domane, all my mountain bikes are XLs or 21".
> 
> Any and all advice is greatly appreciated!
> 
> Here is the FM190!
> View attachment 305490


Here's my R-041, not sold anymore on Velobuildmall, It's a Schmenge. The FM-098 is an excellent choice.


----------



## 00Garza

@SL06
Is the MC696 the same frame as the FM-029 or the Zonghwei R-008 (R-027 on velobuild)? The geometry looks identical. I'm also hunting for a slightly more relaxed geometry frame.


----------



## PaxRomana

bugly64 said:


> Here's my R-041, not sold anymore on Velobuildmall, It's a Schmenge. The FM-098 is an excellent choice.


That is a cool looking bike. Well done.


----------



## Local Hero

RaptorTC said:


> I got an FM098 last spring and its been great for me. No real issues working with DengFu. A bit of a language barrier and double/triple checking details of the frame build lead to a fairly lengthy email exchange, but when it was all said and done I got exactly what I wanted.
> 5,500 miles later and its still treating me quite well. The stiffness and power transfer were greatly improved from my last bike (cheapo Bikes Direct). I was so pleased with the product that I went back to DengFu for some 56mm deep wheels to complete the aero get-up.


How much did you pay for the frame, fork, and shipping?


----------



## raudi

I'm interested in the cervelo r5 lookalike. What sellers have this frame? I know velobuild has one but to price shop before pulling the trigger.


----------



## bvber

raudi said:


> I'm interested in the cervelo r5 lookalike. What sellers have this frame?


Top sale cheap T800 carbon fiber bike frame, View carbon fiber bike frame, Dengfu Product Details from Dengfu Sports Equipment Co., Limited on Alibaba.com

Super light road frame FM066 - $630.00 : bike MALL


----------



## alfaromeo1

just wondering on this thread. he cost o the molds, esp. the' pinarello' mold must be ver high , just to copy the frame itself,is time consuming.. perhaps these are real frame as someone said here,just afterhours made,and the ' real' pinaello,or anyother make, knows this, and cannot do anything about it,and just say the are fakes.... cost to make a mold, doing all the measurements on all the surfaces on any fame, and selling a small amount. cost benefit ratio is wrong,even for the Chinese . just perhaps these are real frames, not fakes


----------



## MMsRepBike

The cost to make a mold isn't that great. They don't sell small amounts either.

Sure, they're all genuine, yeah, go ahead and buy one then, I'm sure it's fine and nobody will ever know. You'll be so popular and cool, sounds like you have it all figured out. Well done.


----------



## alfaromeo1

,a see bit testy,are you ,no I have not figgered it out, and do you know the actual number of frames they have sold, one thing I learned in the U.S.Army in 22 years,is find the facts before you go into battle,on in circumstance,that's how I survived 4 tours in that wonderful middle east country. I was just looking at a possibility.


----------



## ghettocop

alfaromeo1 said:


> just wondering on this thread. he cost o the molds, esp. the' pinarello' mold must be ver high , just to copy the frame itself,is time consuming.. perhaps these are real frame as someone said here,just afterhours made,and the ' real' pinaello,or anyother make, knows this, and cannot do anything about it,and just say the are fakes.... cost to make a mold, doing all the measurements on all the surfaces on any fame, and selling a small amount. cost benefit ratio is wrong,even for the Chinese . just perhaps these are real frames, not fakes


OMG lol.


----------



## alfaromeo1

To clarify,someone posted a response to my thoughts,then retracted the post, hope this clarify this my post,yes,this does read confusing, sort about that


----------



## asherstash1

currently having ongoing nightmare with deng fu 206, still waiting for correct cable stop, non-drive side bb threads mashed and headtube design is awful and so just the weight of front wheel falling to the left has actually cracked the carbon around headtube.... I will post pics but is alla bit demoralising frankly...


----------



## CycleguyJoe

Hello, all,

I've lurked and contributed a bit in seeking details on Chinese carbon frames. About a month ago, after much hemming and hawing, I ordered a VeloBuild R-022.

It's about 90% built, with fine tuning and fitting needed.

Some details:
VB-R-022, 56 cm, with fork, headset, seatpost, clamp, extra derailleur hanger, and carbon spacer stack, all from VB. On my front porch 22 days after order. All nicely finished and packed.
Carbon stem, handlebar, and saddle are no-name Chinese from alternate sources.
Campagnolo Centaur 10-speed group acquired over several months, new, except for carbon crankset carried over from old bike.
Vuelta wheels from Ebay.
Wellgo MG-8 pedals.
Lots of titanium bits; pedal spindles, stem hardware, crank fixing bolt, seatpost hardware, cage mount screws, with more coming.

Assembled in time for one test ride of 20 miles.

Initial impressions: 
Easy to build up. Fast, light, and very smooth riding. One key test involves climbing a short, steep hill near home. Ascended seated, riding on the 23-tooth cog, a first-time experience. Less mass than my old Cannondale.

Much work remains to be done: 
The cables/housings are zip tied right now. I’ll use strapping tape to hold them down, cut off the zip ties, add the gel pads, then tape the bars in Campy red.
The cables themselves need to be dyked off and red cable ends added.
The steer tube needs to be cut, but not until I’m comfortable with reach and position and other dimensions.
The spacer stack will have a 5 mm red carbon slice, right in the middle, to line up with the seatpost clamp.

Looking for red chainring bolts to replace the gold ones. Failing that, it’s back to black.
Also looking for red pedal dust caps in ti or carbon.

Photos of bike in process:

If there's any interest, I'll add more details in a subsequent posting.

Cheers

Joe F

Complete departure: Am I the only participant on this site who has problems with the edit/input?


----------



## bvber

Congrats on your new bike build. I went through that about a year ago.

One thing I would suggest is to tilt the shifter/lever position up a little and tilt the handlebar down a little. Something more like this.


----------



## CycleguyJoe

bvber said:


> Congrats on your new bike build. I went through that about a year ago.
> 
> One thing I would suggest is to tilt the shifter/lever position up a little and tilt the handlebar down a little. Something more like this.
> View attachment 305994


Hi, Bvber,

I took some inspiration from your build, and contacted you. Thanks for your message.

Yes, bar and shifter positions are still to be worked out. I deliberately sought a 17 degree angle for the stem, to get the bar height up without a long steertube spacing. Now's the time to get angles and dimensions finalized.

Thanks again.

--Joe F


----------



## Flac Vest

Anybody have any info on the long lead-times from Dengfu? Purchased a bike from them early last month and have not had any contact after sending payment. Dealt with them directly "[email protected]" (email on their front page) and after getting the invoice and sending payment, all communication has stopped. 

How long is the lead time? I'm told 6-10 days for paint but it's been... 3 or so weeks now.


----------



## RBikrider

SL06 said:


> Xiamen Iplay IP-306 and Xiamen Carbon Speed CS-306 sell the same or very similar product to the R-016. The review of the R-016 on the VB web site was in fact originally a review of the IP-306 frame - they change the name in the review when they start there company. If you look in the VB forum, you will see mention of the IP-306.
> I believe that Zonghwei is the manufacturer of the R-016. I am not shure if the IP-306 / CS-306 are manufacture by Zonghwei. The IP/CS 306 are from the same manufacturer. Carbon speed is a new company started by previous Iplay employee. Both frame are a mixture of T700 and T800 carbon - its bot clearly stated on their description.
> 
> I have read a fair number of positive and also negative post about Velobuild. I have browse their forum and was negatively impress by the lack of recent post.
> 
> If you are looking for a relax geometry frame the IP / CS306 (R016) seems appreciate, but have limited number of frame size.
> 
> You might want to consider also the Miracle trade MT-MC696 (long head tube).
> 
> The FM296 (HongFu) of MC296 (Miracle) are also interesting but with a very slightly more aggressive geometry. Seems available in T700 or T800 carbon. I am aiming in this direction for now because the I have find a better match for my size (more size choice)
> 
> I am also shopping for a new frame. Unfortunately I have not find many review on those frame that I have mention.
> 
> I hope this help...


Actually Peter who started his new adventure Carbon Speed was one of the owners of Xiamen Iplay before, not just an employee. I knew him through Velobuild forum 2 years ago, he is really professional in replying all our questions, there should be fellows who bought 066 SL road frame and IP-105-D frames from Peter at that time, right ? From Chinertown.com, I knew he left Iplay Peter left xmiplay, but still in business

I bought IP-306 frame which is earliest on sale in VeloBuild Mall, and purchased one pair of 29er wheels from Peter last year as well. Peter was banned by the old man who was the original master of VB, and the geezer sold the whole VB forum including VB mall to Chris who is the current owner. 

Here are 2 pictures Peter sent me early last year, I totally understood why that geezer wanted to ban him on his forum. All the messages should be reviewed by them before they appear on VB forum now. Did I say something wrong? Correct me.














Not sure which factory produces these frames, Flybike or Zhongwei, but I would like to choose a vendor who can provide reasonable price and best service, and honestly answering our questions.


----------



## raudi

So I ended buying a R-055 and will be painting it to look like the Ceverlo R5. Not sure on the groupset yet, but I'm leaning to Sram Force 22 or Ultegra.


----------



## 00Garza

Flac Vest said:


> Anybody have any info on the long lead-times from Dengfu? Purchased a bike from them early last month and have not had any contact after sending payment. Dealt with them directly "dengfubike[email protected]" (email on their front page) and after getting the invoice and sending payment, all communication has stopped.
> 
> How long is the lead time? I'm told 6-10 days for paint but it's been... 3 or so weeks now.


If the paint job is intricate, it could take a little longer than usual, or if you asked for a carbon weave they don't have in stock. Hope it works out for you.


----------



## walked

Flac Vest said:


> Anybody have any info on the long lead-times from Dengfu? Purchased a bike from them early last month and have not had any contact after sending payment. Dealt with them directly "[email protected]" (email on their front page) and after getting the invoice and sending payment, all communication has stopped.
> 
> How long is the lead time? I'm told 6-10 days for paint but it's been... 3 or so weeks now.


Same boat here. Paid; havent been able to reach them.

Many emails, skypes, nothing..

Starting to worry. Sigh.


----------



## walked

I managed to get a response from them via skype.

They're saying 6-15 days for paint; but itll be on the way soon(ish).

So: if you need to reach them; hit them on skype!


----------



## Bnecon

Has anyone visited one of the production sites of hongfu or dengfu? I think i remember someone posting some pictures once, can't find them anymore though.


----------



## walked

Bnecon said:


> Has anyone visited one of the production sites of hongfu or dengfu? I think i remember someone posting some pictures once, can't find them anymore though.


http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bi...ny-hong-fu-tomorrow-227718-2.html#post3019854

Looks like the pictures are dead, though.


*Unrelated:*
I'll echo not to buy Velobuild if you can. I have an R-016, and while its a decent bike, the QC and finishing is pretty poor, and the support received ...well, doesnt exist.

Waiting on Deng Fu FM098 which I can compare directly when arrives.

I'll gladly write up some of the issues with the R-016 when I have some extra time and my camera back from warranty service.


----------



## le duke

Has anyone here ordered, received, or ridden an FR-315 frame?

Flyxii, and various eBay retailers sell them.


----------



## deltarocketscientist

Does anyone know what the Chinarello's use for a BB30? I just got the frame and it appears to be a pressing, just wondering g


----------



## Flac Vest

walked said:


> I managed to get a response from them via skype.
> 
> They're saying 6-15 days for paint; but itll be on the way soon(ish).
> 
> So: if you need to reach them; hit them on skype!


I received an email from my original contact saying they were shipping soon. 

I think what happens is they contact and work with people for a short while and then all go do "other things," like build bikes, or work other jobs. Then they come back and contact everybody en masse. 

Possibility of the bikes not being in stock either; I'm assuming there's a lul since the frames are getting older, hype is dying, and velo-build isn't dealing with them anymore. 

Good info for future purchase suggestions, none-the-less.


----------



## raudi

I jus bought a r-055. care to share the problems you've had with your frame?




walked said:


> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bi...ny-hong-fu-tomorrow-227718-2.html#post3019854
> 
> Looks like the pictures are dead, though.
> 
> 
> *Unrelated:*
> I'll echo not to buy Velobuild if you can. I have an R-016, and while its a decent bike, the QC and finishing is pretty poor, and the support received ...well, doesnt exist.
> 
> Waiting on Deng Fu FM098 which I can compare directly when arrives.
> 
> I'll gladly write up some of the issues with the R-016 when I have some extra time and my camera back from warranty service.


----------



## msedbaue

So I picked up a FM066 from Dengfu, they forgot to send the headset I ordered so Im waiting for it to arrive. Lame. Looking at the frame, I was curious, the housings that routed internally, should I be routing my cables through these? It appears that I should be. 

Thanks


----------



## jaredloucks

Hi all,

My 2008 Tarmac frame just got a nice crack, and I'm seriously considering going the Chinese route. I've been looking at the Dengfu FM208, but the seat tube seems shorter than the Tarmac from the pictures I've seen. 

Does anyone know of another good Tarmac clone? 

I have also considered the FM098, but I'm only 68kg so I'm looking for more of an all-rounder.


----------



## ptsbike55

I am looking at another frame. I noticed one on VeloBuild, the R-077. It is one of the super light frames, 765 gm for a 52 cm. Any experience or thoughts on this one?


----------



## Buckit

Hey all, I have been reading this forum for a long time and through all of the China carbon threads. 

Inam am finally ready to pull the trigger on one of these frames. After talking with Abigail at Hong Fu, I have decided on the following order:


fm296 with fork
steal post / clamp
headset
st003 stem
hb003 drop bars

before I ordered I wanted to run this buy you guys. I didn't read much on the 296 specifically or any good/bad feed back on the stems and bars. 

Thanks in advance!!


----------



## VAMurph

*FM015 Frame Replacement Headset?*

Hey Everyone, I've had the Chinese FM015 frame for about 4 years and want to replace the headset. I can order another NECO headset and wait 30 days for it arrive, but thought I would go with something else. Anyone replace their FM015 headset with something stateside?

Thanks


----------



## bvber

As long as 1-1/8" upper and 1-1/2" lower combo, it should be good. I saw some good deals from US located ebay sellers.


----------



## mrcreosote

Pro Drop-In Tapered Headset


----------



## bhsavery

Can someone recommend me a carbon disc frame? Preferably one with decent room for a 25-28c tire.

Background: I have a steel commuter bike that I run a 1x9 (from before it was cool) and flat bars. Frame is kinda out of alignment, bent non-replaceable hanger etc. Time for a new frame. Wouldn't mind spending a few hundred on a carbon replacement. 

Bonus if the frame had trough axles.


----------



## meeeeep

Yeah I'm also looking for a carbon disc frame but something road oriented rather than CX.


----------



## robt57

Roubiax, Diverge, Secteur, Bianchi CV, Cannondale several models... List is longer than what my feeble memory can pluck out quickly...


----------



## SL06

*Fm296 / mc296*



Buckit said:


> Hey all, I have been reading this forum for a long time and through all of the China carbon threads.
> 
> Inam am finally ready to pull the trigger on one of these frames. After talking with Abigail at Hong Fu, I have decided on the following order:
> 
> 
> fm296 with fork
> steal post / clamp
> headset
> st003 stem
> hb003 drop bars
> 
> before I ordered I wanted to run this buy you guys. I didn't read much on the 296 specifically or any good/bad feed back on the stems and bars.
> 
> Thanks in advance!!



I have just bought and assemble a MC296 from Miracle Bike. This is the same model as the FM296 from Hong Fu. 
HF advertise T700 and T800 FM296 carbon frame but the weight of both were similar. MC told me that the MC296 was definitively high percent of T800 carbon. The weight was slightly lower but the frame was a bit more expensive.

The frame I got was well finish , inside and outside. but during the assembly I ran into 2 minor problem.

First, there a plastic cover under the bottom bracket where the shifter cable come out of the frame and slide in is grove of that cover. I had to file about 1-2 mm of carbon around the hole of the cover where the cable came out of the frame because they were pinch by the cover. This as solve the problem.

Second, the seatpost that came with the frame was to small and I believe that the seat tube of the framewas also to big. I measure the seatpost diameter around 26,8 to 27,0 mm. It was smaller at the end and bigger closer to the seat. Its suppose to be 27,2 mm exactly. When tigh to the maximum, I was still able to move the seatpost back and forth because there was to much play. I ask last week Miracle for a suggestion on how to fix this and I am waiting for an answer.
In the meantime, I have cut a piece a Transparency film for laser printer and wrap it around the seat post. The film is made of hard plastic but is thin. I adjust the length for a snug fit, about 1/3 the circumference of the tube I put some carbon paste both side of the Film and install. I did 2 x 100 km ride and the post is solid. 

The ride quality of this frame is fine. THe steering is neutral, I like it. Its not as fast as the FM-069 which I find a bit to reactive. The ride quality is similar the the FM-69. Its absorb well the road vibration at the front but the back is on the rigid side, but till comfortable. My Opus Vivace 2010 was more absorbing at the back on rough road. 

On the other hand, the MC296 seems to have a bit less flex in the bottom braket while climbing than my Opus. The FM069 was similar to the MC296. I feel a bit more efficient.

In summery, I did about 250 km on the bike and like it. I am still adapting to the change. 

Personally, I would be curious to compare with the MC696. That frame have a longer headtube and would be more appropriate for my riding style (100 km endurance ride, 28 - 30 km/h cruising speed) Other frame in that category is the IP-306/CS-306 / R-016 frame.


----------



## MMsRepBike

SL06 said:


> I have just bought and assemble a MC296 from Miracle Bike. This is the same model as the FM296 from Hong Fu.
> HF advertise T700 and T800 FM296 carbon frame but the weight of both were similar. MC told me that the MC296 was definitively high percent of T800 carbon. The weight was slightly lower but the frame was a bit more expensive.


...

These companies do NOT use Japanese Toray carbon fiber. I can just about promise you that. There is no Tanything in any of these Chinese frames. They use stuff made in China of course. So please stop believing them with the T800 T1000 T700 nonsense, they're just lying to you to get your money.


----------



## SL06

00Garza said:


> @SL06
> Is the MC696 the same frame as the FM-029 or the Zonghwei R-008 (R-027 on velobuild)? The geometry looks identical. I'm also hunting for a slightly more relaxed geometry frame.


Sorry, I dont know.


----------



## Maglore

MMsRepBike said:


> ...
> 
> These companies do NOT use Japanese Toray carbon fiber. I can just about promise you that. There is no Tanything in any of these Chinese frames. They use stuff made in China of course. So please stop believing them with the T800 T1000 T700 nonsense, they're just lying to you to get your money.


Big claims. Any evidence to back this up?


----------



## SL06

MMsRepBike said:


> ...
> 
> These companies do NOT use Japanese Toray carbon fiber. I can just about promise you that. There is no Tanything in any of these Chinese frames. They use stuff made in China of course. So please stop believing them with the T800 T1000 T700 nonsense, they're just lying to you to get your money.


All I can say is that i like my frame ! I paid less than half what the local store was asking me for an equivalent frame. My opinion is that it was money well invested, even considering the minor issue I got.


----------



## T Ride

Hey everyone,
I've been reading through numerous pages of the Chinese carbon threads over the past month and they have been very informative, but as I get closer to buying a few questions have popped up. I'd really appreciate it if someone who owns an FM098 or someone who has ridden one could answer anything they can.

1. The one major problem with the FM098 from what I've read is problems with the seatpost slipping. I've heard a new seatpost clamp was made but I haven't seen any reports of its effectiveness. Does anyone know how the new seatpost clamp is holding?

2. From what I have read, the FM098 is very similar to the Venge in its geometry. If I went to a bike shop and got someone to fit me to a Venge, would that help me determine what frame size and stem I should get?

3. I've seen mixed reports on the ease of internally routing the gearing cables. Are there tubes or something inside of the frame to guide the cables, or is it completely hollow and you have to fish for it? 

4. Should I be getting the braze on derailleur from Shimano, or do I need a band?

5. The prices I've seen people pay for their frame has like a ~$200 variance. Is it okay to haggle with the people at Dengfu?

Thanks in advance for your advice, this will be my first bike build and I'm quite inexperienced. I plan on gathering the parts over summer and then building it in the fall.


----------



## SL06

T Ride said:


> Hey everyone,
> I've been reading through numerous pages of the Chinese carbon threads over the past month and they have been very informative, but as I get closer to buying a few questions have popped up. I'd really appreciate it if someone who owns an FM098 or someone who has ridden one could answer anything they can.
> 
> 1. The one major problem with the FM098 from what I've read is problems with the seatpost slipping. I've heard a new seatpost clamp was made but I haven't seen any reports of its effectiveness. Does anyone know how the new seatpost clamp is holding?
> 
> 2. From what I have read, the FM098 is very similar to the Venge in its geometry. If I went to a bike shop and got someone to fit me to a Venge, would that help me determine what frame size and stem I should get?
> 
> 3. I've seen mixed reports on the ease of internally routing the gearing cables. Are there tubes or something inside of the frame to guide the cables, or is it completely hollow and you have to fish for it?
> 
> 4. Should I be getting the braze on derailleur from Shimano, or do I need a band?
> 
> 5. The prices I've seen people pay for their frame has like a ~$200 variance. Is it okay to haggle with the people at Dengfu?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your advice, this will be my first bike build and I'm quite inexperienced. I plan on gathering the parts over summer and then building it in the fall.



HI,

I have build several bike in the past including 2 chinese frame : the FM069 and The MC296 -see few post above. 


1. Seatpost slipping is du to dimension tolerance problem with the seatpost (to small), the seatube of the frame (to large) or the clamp. I did some measurement in my MC296 build (see post above) and had the combinaison of the 3 problems. Using a transparency film for laser pinter as a shim plus assembly carbon paste solve the problem. I use some blue locktite on the seatclamp bolt for now but a better seat clamp would help. The clamp get loose with vibration. The bolt thread is to big. Note that the seatpost and the frame quality look good, its the dimension tolerance....

2. The horizontal tube length determine the reach and is the most important factor to consider. If well position on your actual bike, you can us it do some measurement . You can get fit in a store, but some frame look alike but tube length and angle are different. You have to consider this. There is also Competitive cycling calculator and pedal force calculator that can help. Try both, but don't trust the result at 100%, verify that it make sense with your own bike.

3. Internal cable routing is not difficult but take longer. The frame come with plastic tubing that help to pass the cable, but they are not essential. There a trap at the bottom of those frame normally, that you can remove and catch the wire there. Using the tubing help. if you remove them accidentally of voluntarily, you can enter them in the frame exit and use them to fish the cable out. The caps a the ends of the frame can normally also be remove if you have to catch the cable at the entry and exit. Personally, I prefer to have the rear shift cable enter at the right of the frame and cross with the front shift inside the down tube, that way those cable are in a more straighter line, less bend, and you get less friction. In some situation, a magnet could be useful to orient the cable.

4. From what I see from the picture of the frame, you have the typical front derailleur hanger - so you need a braze on front derailler. Its always a good idea of ordering an extra front and 2 extra rear deraileur hanger in case that you bend those in a fall.

5. That frame seems to be available in T700 and T800 carbon. T800 should be lighter but more expensive. Same frame from different seller, they are not lighter and I suspect that the content of T800 are minimal. SO check the weight before buying T800 frame. I dont now if there any stiffness difference between both. I dough, since they use extra material (more weight). Also, confirm the weight with the seller on purchase. I suggest to go with UD carbon since 3k and 12 k is cosmetic. With UD, they can orient the fiber in the stronger direction and the frame in theory will be better, again , in theory. 

Stick with recommended seller from this forum : Denfu, Hongfu , Miracle... If you run in a problem , that were they make a difference...


I hope this help. Good luke with your build.


----------



## T Ride

SL06 said:


> HI,
> 
> I have build several bike in the past including 2 chinese frame : the FM069 and The MC296 -see few post above.
> 
> 
> 1. Seatpost slipping is du to dimension tolerance problem with the seatpost (to small), the seatube of the frame (to large) or the clamp. I did some measurement in my MC296 build (see post above) and had the combinaison of the 3 problems. Using a transparency film for laser pinter as a shim plus assembly carbon paste solve the problem. I use some blue locktite on the seatclamp bolt for now but a better seat clamp would help. The clamp get loose with vibration. The bolt thread is to big. Note that the seatpost and the frame quality look good, its the dimension tolerance....
> 
> 2. The horizontal tube length determine the reach and is the most important factor to consider. If well position on your actual bike, you can us it do some measurement . You can get fit in a store, but some frame look alike but tube length and angle are different. You have to consider this. There is also Competitive cycling calculator and pedal force calculator that can help. Try both, but don't trust the result at 100%, verify that it make sense with your own bike.
> 
> 3. Internal cable routing is not difficult but take longer. The frame come with plastic tubing that help to pass the cable, but they are not essential. There a trap at the bottom of those frame normally, that you can remove and catch the wire there. Using the tubing help. The caps a the ends of the frame can normally be remove if you have to catch the cable at the entry and exit. Personally, I prefer to have the rear shift cable enter at the right of the frame and cross with the front shift inside the down tube, that way those cable are in a more straighter line, less bend, and you get less friction.
> 
> 4. From what I see from the picture of the frame, you have the typical front derailleur hanger - so you need a braze on front derailler. Its always a good idea of ordering an extra front and 2 extra rear deraileur hanger in case that you bend those in a fall.
> 
> 5. That frame seems to be available in T700 and T800 carbon. T800 should be lighter but more expensive. Same frame from different seller, they are not lighter and I suspect that the content of T800 are minimal. SO check the weight before buying T800 frame. I dont now if there any stiffness difference between both. I dough, since they use extra material (more weight). Also, confirm the weight with the seller on purchase. I suggest to go with UD carbon since 3k and 12 k is cosmetic. With UD, they can orient the fiber in the stronger direction and the frame in theory will be better, again , in theory.
> 
> Stick with recommended seller from this forum : Denfu, Hongfu , Miracle... If you run in a problem , that were they make a difference...
> 
> 
> I hope this help. Good luke with your build.


Thank you so much for answering my questions so throughly! I've also been looking at the FM028 and kind of picked the FM098 randomly. 

Also I'm assuming you got your FM069 from Dengfu or Hongfu. Did you pay with PayPal or just pay with a card, which do you recommend?


----------



## SL06

I ask for a Paypal invoice since Paypal can help to resolve issue. The detail invoice is important . I pay Paypal with my credit card to get the bonus point. I was not aware that you can pay directly by credit card, I am surprise. If, like mine, your credit card have some king of assurance in case of problems, than why not. 
Both are recommended suppliers. If you want a FM069, there a few things to know. HongFU says it sells T1000 carbon frame, and DengFu T800. I am not shure that the frame is different. They seems to have the same weight. During the assembly, I ran in a problem with the Ultegra 6800 front derailleur. The spring of the derailleur was touching the frame. It could be a major problem with a compact crank. I have a post in a forum on this. However, others have reported that they did not have the same problem. So It might be a specific problem with a single frame size or mold. Double check with the supplier before buying. Its the position of the spring of the Ultegra 6800 front deraileur that give the problem. Dura Ace have similar configuration. Other brand might be OK.

Between the FM069 and the MC296, I would says that they are equivalent on the road - same stiffness, performance, but the direction of the FM069 is fast and the MC296 neutral, I prefer the 296.


----------



## T Ride

SL06 said:


> I ask for a Paypal invoice since Paypal can help to resolve issue. The detail invoice is important . I pay Paypal with my credit card to get the bonus point. I was not aware that you can pay directly by credit card, I am surprise. If, like mine, your credit card have some king of assurance in case of problems, than why not.
> Both are recommended suppliers. If you want a FM069, there a few things to know. HongFU says it sells T1000 carbon frame, and DengFu T800. I am not shure that the frame is different. They seems to have the same weight. During the assembly, I ran in a problem with the Ultegra 6800 front derailleur. The spring of the derailleur was touching the frame. It could be a major problem with a compact crank. I have a post in a forum on this. However, others have reported that they did not have the same problem. So It might be a specific problem with a single frame size or mold. Double check with the supplier before buying. Its the position of the spring of the Ultegra 6800 front deraileur that give the problem. Dura Ace have similar configuration. Other brand might be OK.
> 
> Between the FM069 and the MC296, I would says that they are equivalent on the road - same stiffness, performance, but the direction of the FM069 is fast and the MC296 neutral, I prefer the 296.


Great! Well that answers my questions that I have, I'm starting to consider the 296 because it is probably lighter and I plan on doing longer rides with the bike. I'll be sure to ask here if I can't figure something out.


----------



## velocipedes1

I'm looking for some advice/information on the following frameset:

FM011 - Dengfu/Hongfu
RB008 - Carbonzone (eBay)
RB043 - Zhongwei

Is this the same frameset? It certainly looks identical and the published geometry charts are all the same. What causes me a little doubt is that with the Zhongwei version specifically there would appear to be 2 or 3 versions under the same model number: one with the internal routing going into the 'back' of the downtube (like the Hongfu/Dengfu version) and another with the same ports in the side of the headtube/downtube. Also a version with BBright option.

Can any one shed some light on this?


----------



## SL06

SL06 said:


> I have just bought and assemble a MC296 from Miracle Bike. This is the same model as the FM296 from Hong Fu.
> HF advertise T700 and T800 FM296 carbon frame but the weight of both were similar. MC told me that the MC296 was definitively high percent of T800 carbon. The weight was slightly lower but the frame was a bit more expensive.
> 
> The frame I got was well finish , inside and outside. but during the assembly I ran into 2 minor problem.
> 
> First, there a plastic cover under the bottom bracket where the shifter cable come out of the frame and slide in is grove of that cover. I had to file about 1-2 mm of carbon around the hole of the cover where the cable came out of the frame because they were pinch by the cover. This as solve the problem.
> 
> Second, the seatpost that came with the frame was to small and I believe that the seat tube of the framewas also to big. I measure the seatpost diameter around 26,8 to 27,0 mm. It was smaller at the end and bigger closer to the seat. Its suppose to be 27,2 mm exactly. When tigh to the maximum, I was still able to move the seatpost back and forth because there was to much play. I ask last week Miracle for a suggestion on how to fix this and I am waiting for an answer.
> In the meantime, I have cut a piece a Transparency film for laser printer and wrap it around the seat post. The film is made of hard plastic but is thin. I adjust the length for a snug fit, about 1/3 the circumference of the tube I put some carbon paste both side of the Film and install. I did 2 x 100 km ride and the post is solid.
> 
> The ride quality of this frame is fine. THe steering is neutral, I like it. Its not as fast as the FM-069 which I find a bit to reactive. The ride quality is similar the the FM-69. Its absorb well the road vibration at the front but the back is on the rigid side, but till comfortable. My Opus Vivace 2010 was more absorbing at the back on rough road.
> 
> On the other hand, the MC296 seems to have a bit less flex in the bottom braket while climbing than my Opus. The FM069 was similar to the MC296. I feel a bit more efficient.
> 
> In summery, I did about 250 km on the bike and like it. I am still adapting to the change.
> 
> Personally, I would be curious to compare with the MC696. That frame have a longer headtube and would be more appropriate for my riding style (100 km endurance ride, 28 - 30 km/h cruising speed) Other frame in that category is the IP-306/CS-306 / R-016 frame.











Here a photo of my MC296. Total weight is about 15,5 lbs with carbon wheel. Campy chorus groupo (2011). Frame was 930g as received with derailleur hangers installed. Carbon fork was 340 g
Just did a 97 km Fondo with a lot of short hills, 1,2 km total ascend. It perform admirably well. 

Very happy.

Now I have to work on a paint scheme....


----------



## raudi

Just got my Velobuild R-055 back from my friend's paint shop. I had it done similar to the Cervelo R5. I told him to take it easy on the paint, but he put 4 coats of color and then 4 more of clear, lol. Can't blame him though as he builds custom choppers and hotrods for a living. The raw 54cm frame was 915g unpainted. Going to build it up with Sram Force 22.


----------



## ptsbike55

raudi said:


> Just got my Velobuild R-055 back from my friend's paint shop. I had it done similar to the Cervelo R5. I told him to take it easy on the paint, but he put 4 coats of color and then 4 more of clear, lol. Can't blame him though as he builds custom choppers and hotrods for a living. The raw 54cm frame was 915g unpainted. Going to build it up with Sram Force 22.


Did it take any longer to get a raw frame vs. a matt or gloss?


----------



## raudi

ptsbike55 said:


> Did it take any longer to get a raw frame vs. a matt or gloss?


No. Got it in 8 days after ordering. Looks like they sanded and prepped for me too. Unfortunately they prepped the seatpost and handlebars too. I wasn't planning on painting those.:idea:


----------



## bvber

raudi said:


> Can't blame him though as he builds custom choppers and hotrods for a living.


It was painted at chopper shop but no "flames"?


----------



## ptsbike55

raudi said:


> No. Got it in 8 days after ordering. Looks like they sanded and prepped for me too. Unfortunately they prepped the seatpost and handlebars too. I wasn't planning on painting those.:idea:


So they took a matt or gloss frame and sanded it and called it raw?


----------



## Buckit

Has anyone had an issue getting the rear derralieur adjusted properly? I install this (Shimano 105 10sp) derralieur new on my old bike and took maybe 15 min to get it setup perfectly. On this frame I have spent 2 hrs trying everything I can think of and everything Google and YouTube advises with no resolve. 

Only thing I can think of is something messed up with the frame or the derralieur mount.


----------



## raudi

ptsbike55 said:


> So they took a matt or gloss frame and sanded it and called it raw?


They probably sand the raw frame before applying the 3k or UD layer also. Didn't look like there was any other layer on mine. Just that it was prepped for paint.


----------



## ptsbike55

Buckit said:


> Has anyone had an issue getting the rear derralieur adjusted properly? I install this (Shimano 105 10sp) derralieur new on my old bike and took maybe 15 min to get it setup perfectly. On this frame I have spent 2 hrs trying everything I can think of and everything Google and YouTube advises with no resolve.
> 
> Only thing I can think of is something messed up with the frame or the derralieur mount.


I had that problem with my frame. The first thing to do is to remove the hanger and make sure it does not have any resin blob left on it. The other thing I found was that the hanger was not factory tightened. I had to tighten it. Last, I borrowed a Park hanger tool an lined the hanger. It was surprisingly not straight. Once I did that, it has shifted great since then.


----------



## SL06

ptsbike55 said:


> I had that problem with my frame. The first thing to do is to remove the hanger and make sure it does not have any resin blob left on it. The other thing I found was that the hanger was not factory tightened. I had to tighten it. Last, I borrowed a Park hanger tool an lined the hanger. It was surprisingly not straight. Once I did that, it has shifted great since then.



+1
Well answered. Always check the derailleur hanger alignment on a new frame.


----------



## Buckit

Thanks guys! I'll be working on this tonight.


----------



## fronesis

SL06 said:


> +1
> Well answered. Always check the derailleur hanger alignment on a new frame.


+1000

I now automatically align the hanger with the Park Tool before I even think about attaching the RD or trying to set anything up. If the hanger isn't straight and true, you will only be able to adjust the RD by luck. And in my experience NONE of my china direct bikes had straight derailleur hangers when delivered, and only ONE out of a handful of name brand frames had straight hangers.


----------



## hammermc

I'm have a problem with my headset. The bottom bearing won't fit into the headtube. The bearing measures 52mm which is correct, but the metal part that's supposed to hold the bearing is just shy of 52mm. It's less than 1/4mm too small. 

I took it to a bike shop and they said there was nothing they could do. 

Does anyone have advice? Should I just start sanding the socket? (it's metal) Would a reaming tool be of use in this situation?

A refund is not an option as I already tried (long story)


----------



## ptsbike55

hammermc said:


> I'm have a problem with my headset. The bottom bearing won't fit into the headtube. The bearing measures 52mm which is correct, but the metal part that's supposed to hold the bearing is just shy of 52mm. It's less than 1/4mm too small.
> 
> I took it to a bike shop and they said there was nothing they could do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone have advice? Should I just start sanding the socket? (it's metal) Would a reaming tool be of use in this situation?
> 
> A refund is not an option as I already tried (long story)
> 
> View attachment 306767


Is the top and bottom both this way?


----------



## raudi

starting to get there.


----------



## marx

@raudi

Nice! Is this frame supposed to be the R5 clone? What are your initial impressions?


----------



## velocipedes1

@raudi details please! Very interested in this frame, where did you buy from etc.

Thanks!


----------



## raudi

Bought the frame from Velobuild. It's the R-055 which is a R3/5 clone. Hong Fu and Deng Fu sell along with many more sell a similar frame. I had mine painted to look like the 2015 R5. I haven't ridden it yet as I'm waiting for a few more parts to complete the build. Once thing I would note though is the front fork has very little clearance. My 23mm tires barely fit, 25mm rub. I should have it completed before the weekend and report back once I get a few miles on it over the weekend.


----------



## velocipedes1

Thanks man. I'm starting to think the R055 (zhongwei R043??), although it looks very similar, is actually different enough from the dengfu/hongfu FM011 to be considered a completely different frame. It's almost a mix of FM011 and FM066.

Love to hear your ride report.


----------



## hammermc

hammermc said:


> I'm have a problem with my headset. The bottom bearing won't fit into the headtube. The bearing measures 52mm which is correct, but the metal part that's supposed to hold the bearing is just shy of 52mm. It's less than 1/4mm too small.
> 
> I took it to a bike shop and they said there was nothing they could do.
> 
> Does anyone have advice? Should I just start sanding the socket? (it's metal) Would a reaming tool be of use in this situation?
> 
> A refund is not an option as I already tried (long story)
> 
> View attachment 306767



I solved the headset problem. After trying to press and pull out the bearing multiple times I set the frame aside for a few days out of frustration. I tried again today and the bearings slid in under finger pressure. Will need a hammer to remove it but it's in finally. 

30 mins of installation later...now my rear brake won't into the brake bridge hole! Guessing it's excess paint and sandpaper will take care of it. I hope it's not going to be as tedious as removing the excess paint from the bottom bracket. (1.5hrs!)


----------



## [email protected]

Got some new wheels:


----------



## dcurzon

Just ordered FR-322 from Flyxii yesterday. Fingers crossed for a problem free first build. Anyone know if 25mm GP4000s2 will fit ok? Currently got 23mm Gatorskins on my wheels, which will need to be replaced.
Cheers


----------



## IanRCarter

Hi guys, been looking through these threads recently, trying to decide what to go for. The fm098 seems a very popular choice, it looks fast and at a very good price. 

I've been wondering whether there are any other frames I should consider? I'm not currently doing any racing but I am considering it and want a bike which is fast and responsive. I don't need all-day comfort- performance is the most important aspect for me. 

Also, what are everyone's thoughts on the carbon bars and stem and bars that dengfu sell? Looking at the hb003 bars, am I right in thinking they don't have internal cable routing?


----------



## CycleguyJoe

Folks,

Got my VeloBuild VB-R-022 in early May. Very pleased and satisfied. Here are some photos.

Built it up with a Campagnolo Centaur 10-speed group, and lots of titanium.

If there's any interest, I'll post a fuller report.

Cheers

--Joe F


----------



## oddspam

I'm soon leaving for a trip to Beijing and Hong Kong. Have anyone experience in buying bike parts in shops in China?


----------



## .je

CycleguyJoe said:


> If there's any interest, I'll post a fuller report.


I would be interested in how you feel the bike rides. How does it handle, is it quick or slow to respond, does it tend to push? Ive read really only one review of its ride, but then others say nearly the opposite. 
The opinions of its build all look to be that it didn't present frustrations.


----------



## raudi

finally got around to riding the new bike. still working on fit, but it looks and rides great so far.


----------



## fronesis

le duke said:


> Has anyone here ordered, received, or ridden an FR-315 frame?
> 
> Flyxii, and various eBay retailers sell them.


Did anyone answer you? 

Ive got 3,000 miles on a fr-315 and it's fantastic. I've built 3 flyxii bikes. 

Have you looked at the fr-316? Better internal cable routing and otherwise the same frame.


----------



## le duke

fronesis said:


> Did anyone answer you?
> 
> Ive got 3,000 miles on a fr-315 and it's fantastic. I've built 3 flyxii bikes.
> 
> Have you looked at the fr-316? Better internal cable routing and otherwise the same frame.


Nope. You're the first.

I had an FR-315 on order; I ordered a 50cm and a 58cm is what showed up at my door. Sent it back, and they said they were out of stock in 50cm BB30 FR-315s with no timeline for more.

So, they are sending me a -316 in my size now. Per USPS, it just cleared customs in San Francisco.
<object type="cosymantecnisbfw" cotype="cs" id="SILOBFWOBJECTID" style="width: 0px; height: 0px; display: block;"></object>


----------



## MMsRepBike

I had a FR-315. Great frame. Too aggressive of a fit for me though. Zero complaints other than a bad seatpost that was replaced. Sold it after only a few rides. Got some great numbers on those rides though.


----------



## fronesis

le duke said:


> Nope. You're the first.
> 
> I had an FR-315 on order; I ordered a 50cm and a 58cm is what showed up at my door. Sent it back, and they said they were out of stock in 50cm BB30 FR-315s with no timeline for more.
> 
> So, they are sending me a -316 in my size now. Per USPS, it just cleared customs in San Francisco.
> <object type="cosymantecnisbfw" cotype="cs" id="SILOBFWOBJECTID" style="width: 0px; height: 0px; display: block;"></object>


I think you got really lucky. I LOVE my FR-315. it's stiff, comfortable, fast, and has been incredibly reliable. But the internal cable routing is not ideal, and this leads to a lot of rattling noise. The FR-316 is almost the identical frame, but it has the same updated internal cable routing as on the FR-322 (which I built for my wife). That frame has a much better internal cable setup. So I think you'll be very pleased.


----------



## velocipedes1

Beautiful.


----------



## dcurzon

fronesis said:


> I think you got really lucky. I LOVE my FR-315. it's stiff, comfortable, fast, and has been incredibly reliable. But the internal cable routing is not ideal, and this leads to a lot of rattling noise. The FR-316 is almost the identical frame, but it has the same updated internal cable routing as on the FR-322 (which I built for my wife). That frame has a much better internal cable setup. So I think you'll be very pleased.


Any tips on the fr322 build/cabling? Eg did you criss cross the gears? Mine is with customs now, awaiting the import duty


----------



## Teo

This is my second Chinese frame. I rode my first one for 3 years, about 4,700 miles with no problems. Went with the same vendor, Greatkeen, for this frame. Have several hundred miles on in so far and no issue. Build quality is great. Paint finish even better than my last one. Overall very happy. They did get the paint color completely wrong, I wanted a darker green and red. Got lime green and orange, but in the end I think this one actually looks better than what I wanted.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

hello hello. Been away for a loooong time. 

just wanted check how everyone is getting along. 

and how is anyone with carbon disc framesets from dengfu or hongfu getting along?


----------



## fronesis

dcurzon said:


> Any tips on the fr322 build/cabling? Eg did you criss cross the gears? Mine is with customs now, awaiting the import duty


The FR-322 cable routing was really straightforward – no complications. I ran everything standard (no criss-crossing of anything). The only tips I'd have are probably obvious, but in case they help:

1. Make certain not to remove the straw guides in the frame. There are no permanent guides in there, so you need the temporary straw in place to run the cable through (and then you remove the straw).
2. Don't forget to put metal end caps on your brake and derailleur cables as they enter the frame. The hard plastic grommets might fool you into thinking that you could go without caps. And if you do, it may still work, but for perfect shifting and firm brakes you want the caps. 
3. SAVE the straw guides. You'll need those the next time you need to remove or replace your cables. You run the straw back into the frame with the bare cable in place, and then you could reinstall.


----------



## dcurzon

fronesis said:


> The FR-322 cable routing was really straightforward – no complications. I ran everything standard (no criss-crossing of anything). The only tips I'd have are probably obvious, but in case they help:
> 
> 1. Make certain not to remove the straw guides in the frame. There are no permanent guides in there, so you need the temporary straw in place to run the cable through (and then you remove the straw).
> 2. Don't forget to put metal end caps on your brake and derailleur cables as they enter the frame. The hard plastic grommets might fool you into thinking that you could go without caps. And if you do, it may still work, but for perfect shifting and firm brakes you want the caps.
> 3. SAVE the straw guides. You'll need those the next time you need to remove or replace your cables. You run the straw back into the frame with the bare cable in place, and then you could reinstall.


Thanks. First bike build for me so trying to be armed with useful info. Not sure where to find metal end caps for the cables though. Will have a look on ebay


----------



## RBikrider

Does anyone try CS-RB01 road frame ? It seems like Specialized Roubaix Zertz 

CS-RB01+RF01 T800 2015 newest road bike carbon frame super light - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


----------



## fronesis

dcurzon said:


> Thanks. First bike build for me so trying to be armed with useful info. Not sure where to find metal end caps for the cables though. Will have a look on ebay


https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=62562


----------



## dcurzon

fronesis said:


> https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=62562


Just opened up my box from Shimano, and the 105 kit has cables and ends already in it, so i think its good to go?? (ends seem to have little noses on them)


----------



## fronesis

dcurzon said:


> Just opened up my box from Shimano, and the 105 kit has cables and ends already in it, so i think its good to go?? (ends seem to have little noses on them)


Yep!:thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## brazilianbreeze

Have any of you had any issues with Products | VeloBuild | Ride Fast & Keep Money In Your Pocket I put an order together on bars and cages and was about to push complete order which showed a small paypal fee and free shipping and handling. Before I placed order i contacted them via email and was told that it would be 10 days shipping at a cost of $25. I wasn't interested in expedited shipping so I just placed my order. I got a receipt email and confirmation and then a separate email from a guy name Chris telling me to send $25 directly to him for shipping.....then i told him the site said nothing about $25 for shipping....he said well I told you this before you placed your order...we went back and forth and I said cancel my order as I felt he was trying to take advantage of me.....a guy named Killerbee(screenname) seems to be the american contact who runs it...based on other responses he seems to be on the ball but this guy in china is pulling something. Any feedback about this or other experience is appreciated. I have bought a ton of stuff from other chinese vendors and had zero issues.....


----------



## RBikrider

brazilianbreeze said:


> Have any of you had any issues with Products | VeloBuild | Ride Fast & Keep Money In Your Pocket I put an order together on bars and cages and was about to push complete order which showed a small paypal fee and free shipping and handling. Before I placed order i contacted them via email and was told that it would be 10 days shipping at a cost of $25. I wasn't interested in expedited shipping so I just placed my order. I got a receipt email and confirmation and then a separate email from a guy name Chris telling me to send $25 directly to him for shipping.....then i told him the site said nothing about $25 for shipping....he said well I told you this before you placed your order...we went back and forth and I said cancel my order as I felt he was trying to take advantage of me.....a guy named Killerbee(screenname) seems to be the american contact who runs it...based on other responses he seems to be on the ball but this guy in china is pulling something. Any feedback about this or other experience is appreciated. I have bought a ton of stuff from other chinese vendors and had zero issues.....


Check my previous post: Chinese Carbon Thread and Ebay direct version 7.0 - Page 3

I think the old man - Velobuild.com should be Killerbee. It seems Chris is current owner of VB. They are both greedy, aren't they ? All vendors like Iplay, Far sports sold products in VB mall sent free frames, wheels to Killerbee at that time. The R-016 frame review was IP-306 review when Peter was active on that forum.

Topic: R-016 Build | VeloBuild

I think all VB members who registered 2 years ago should know above details.

Peter still got the IP-306/CS-306 / R-016 frame selling at his new company

CS-306 T800 super light DI2 carbon road bike frame/fork - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


----------



## brazilianbreeze

*Thank you*



RBikrider said:


> Check my previous post: Chinese Carbon Thread and Ebay direct version 7.0 - Page 3
> 
> I think the old man - Velobuild.com should be Killerbee. It seems Chris is current owner of VB. They are both greedy, aren't they ? All vendors like Iplay, Far sports sold products in VB mall sent free frames, wheels to Killerbee at that time. The R-016 frame review was IP-306 review when Peter was active on that forum.
> 
> Topic: R-016 Build | VeloBuild
> 
> I think all VB members who registered 2 years ago should know above details.
> 
> Peter still got the IP-306/CS-306 / R-016 frame selling at his new company
> 
> CS-306 T800 super light DI2 carbon road bike frame/fork - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd



Interesting...Thank you for the back story and history.....I had a few more conversations with Chris and it is very apparent that he was trying to rip me off a few bucks.....what guys like Chris don't understand, is that they may rip or try to rip a guy of a few bucks and cost themselves much more in lost business as a result of those business practices. Oh well.....that's why competition is nice...we have plenty of options.


----------



## ptsbike55

RBikrider said:


> Check my previous post: Chinese Carbon Thread and Ebay direct version 7.0 - Page 3
> 
> I think the old man - Velobuild.com should be Killerbee. It seems Chris is current owner of VB. They are both greedy, aren't they ? All vendors like Iplay, Far sports sold products in VB mall sent free frames, wheels to Killerbee at that time. The R-016 frame review was IP-306 review when Peter was active on that forum.
> 
> Topic: R-016 Build | VeloBuild
> 
> I think all VB members who registered 2 years ago should know above details.
> 
> Peter still got the IP-306/CS-306 / R-016 frame selling at his new company
> 
> CS-306 T800 super light DI2 carbon road bike frame/fork - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


I dealt with Peter way back in 2011 when he was with Carbonal. He is very professional and will answer all your questions right away. I would buy from him again.


----------



## ptsbike55

Teo said:


> This is my second Chinese frame. I rode my first one for 3 years, about 4,700 miles with no problems. Went with the same vendor, Greatkeen, for this frame. Have several hundred miles on in so far and no issue. Build quality is great. Paint finish even better than my last one. Overall very happy. They did get the paint color completely wrong, I wanted a darker green and red. Got lime green and orange, but in the end I think this one actually looks better than what I wanted.
> 
> I like those colors. Almost went with that color scheme on one of my bikes.It looks great. Any idea on the weight?


----------



## myhui

Two years old and going strong.

WS-02 from https://www.gotobike.com.cn/


----------



## Teo

No sure of weight, since my scale is not working. My old bike was 16.5 with speeplays. This one is a bit lighter with same pedals.


----------



## dcurzon

20150629_205512

Finished it off last night. First test ride was a 30km commute to work this morning.

Jobs to do:
Tune up the gears
Adjust riding position
Trim excess cabling
De-sticker rear wheel
New tyres

Frame is FR322 from FlyXii (size 56), ordered on 18th June, arrived in the UK on 22nd June, spent a few days floating around customs, got my hands on it on 27th June. £280 inc delivery, plus £24 customs import duty.

7.8kg inc M520 pedals.


----------



## MMsRepBike

dcurzon said:


> Jobs to do:
> Level the seat


no comment on the position otherwise other than it looks very uncomfortable.


----------



## dcurzon

MMsRepBike said:


> no comment on the position otherwise other than it looks very uncomfortable.


Ha! Yep, that was addressed right after this picture 
Gears are now done.


----------



## ptsbike55

Teo said:


> No sure of weight, since my scale is not working. My old bike was 16.5 with speeplays. This one is a bit lighter with same pedals.


I have been looking at new frames, but haven't found anything much lighter than what I already have. My build came in at 16 lbs. even. Of course mine now has over 20,000 miles on it, so it is time for something new.


----------



## bvber

MMsRepBike said:


> it looks very uncomfortable.


With saddle and handlebar at almost same level? I would think the opposite. :skep:


----------



## dcurzon

bvber said:


> With saddle and handlebar at almost same level? I would think the opposite. :skep:


The joys of having DDD (degenerative disk disease) in L4/L5, means i have to watch my position carefully and make only small changes. I haven't set saddle/bars up yet, just a starting point. I think the stem may come down fractionally


----------



## AirForceNole

im pretty new to cycling, been riding for about 3 months, got an entry level giant defy 5. But looking at the chinese carbon frames.i was curious if any other builders make a Specialized Roubaix, Cannondale, Trekk


----------



## mrcreosote

Caveat Emptor

Not all frames are created equal. A look deep inside the carbon in counterfeit bikes - VeloNews.com


----------



## AirForceNole

mrcreosote said:


> Caveat Emptor
> 
> Not all frames are created equal. A look deep inside the carbon in counterfeit bikes - VeloNews.com


This is old


----------



## jlandry

AirForceNole said:


> This is old


A good article, none the less.


----------



## Swen6

Teo said:


> View attachment 307044


They're genuine colours so they probably just grabbed one of the shelf.

...that said, do love the colours.


----------



## RBikrider

Just got my CS-RB01 bike from Peter, built by CarbonSpeed, I mean complete bike from him, including tires. My bike weighs 7.95 kg, you can guess how much I spent 

CS-RB01 frame with RF01 fork 49cm BSA UD matt
38mm clincher wheels UD matt, Novatec 271/372 hubs, Pillar aero 1432 spokes
Shimano 105 crankset, derailleurs, brakes
CST tires
CarbonSpeed seat post SP4 27.2x350mm
CarbonSpeed MOST road handlebar

CS-RB01+RF01 T800 2015 newest road bike carbon frame super light - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


----------



## MMsRepBike

level the top of the seat, not the rails. The part you sit on should be perfectly level.


----------



## mcian

Hi everyone, i am new to this forum but i have read hundreds of pages of the China Carbon thread.
I am intrested in a FM066 frame. As i have read and informed myself, the frame seems a bit like the cannondale supersix evo.
At the moment i ride a Cannondale Caad 10 size 54cm. 
My inseam is 81.5cm (31.1 inch) and my height is 176.5 cm (5.8").
Competitive cyclist gives me a 53.6 to 54cm top tube length.(competitive fit)
The 54cm Caad frame therefore is a bit to big. I feel comfy on it but i hat to put a 70mm stem on it.
Now the question is which frame should i take? The 52cm or 54cm ?

Also i love the design of the FM098 frame. Same problem, which size?

May be someone has the same measurements and give me some advice.
Next week i will be able to ride a supersix evo size 54cm. May be this will help a little...

Thanks a lot !


----------



## RBikrider

Thanks. I feel great on my CS-RB01 bike this far, coz I spent only $ 1650 including freight + PayPal fee.


----------



## safcstuie

After 4 trusty years, I've snapped the rear hanger on my FM-015, can anyone direct me to where I can buy a new one? Dengfu are being difficult to get in touch with.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

hangers possibly may have a number on the back of it. that is the code that you can follow to get a new one. i don't think the chinese frame manufacturer will come up with a new mech hanger design.


----------



## speeddemon

*FM018 internal routing breakdown*

The housing for the front derailleur cable has rubbed against a sharp edge in the frame. It now looks like this:









Can something be done here? I fear that I have to replace the entire frame...


----------



## cxwrench

Hmmmm...that's a deng fu frame, yeah?


----------



## speeddemon

Yep, I got it from Carbonzone on Ebay in 2011.


----------



## timmy09

HI,

I am looking to get my first ever road bike. I would like build it it disk breaks. This is simply so that I can use carbon wheels all year and not worry about the British weather effecting the rim breaking capability. 

Can anyone recommend a carbon frame with disk break mounts? I have been trying to contact Dengfu for a few days with no reply as of yet. I would love to have a Venge-esque like frame if possible with disk mounts but have spotted nothing so far! 

Thanks


----------



## tlg

I'm working on a new build with a Flyxii FR602 cross frame built with Ultegra 6870 Di2 RS785 Hydraulic Disc Group.
Frame was purchased on ebay from zgr9. Communication was "ok". They didn't have the BB I ordered so it took several days to work that out. The 12hr time difference and 1 question/answer per day took a little patience. But it all got straightened out and they were helpful. Shipping was *incredibly *fast. Package was accepted in China on Tues. I received it that Friday! Four days!

I was skeptical on the frame given mixed reviews. But this is going to be a gravel/winter/beater project bike so I wasn't all that concerned. I was pleasantly surprised at the quality. It arrived well packaged. The frame appears well built and I couldn't find a flaw. With the exception of the brake boss that had some epoxy build up on it. A little sandpaper fixed that. Most impressing is the inside of the frame. I've read horror stories of terrible interiors. But this is flawless inside. It's almost as smooth as the exterior. I tried to get some pic's but the camera wouldn't focus well on the inside.
The listed weights were pretty accurate as well. They were listed as Frame : 900+/-50g ( 51cm) , Fork: 420+/-20g. My frame came in at 1025g for a 55cm. So 125g over, for two sizes larger. Not bad. The fork was a little under. I think 410g. I have it written down at home.

The build is almost complete, just have to wrap the bars. Final weight should be under 17.5lbs.


----------



## timmy09

How much was your frame? Are you going to paint it?

I have narrowed it down to a few frames:

Hongfu - FM079

Flyxii - FR-320

Yishunbike - FM045-D

My plan is to buy the frame as is and give it a lick of paint with my own design. I want to buy carbon wheels from Yoeleo, but I don't know what I am buying but disk break suitable wheels come in at $500. Are these any good?

My plan is to buy Shimano 105 groupset and TRP HY-RD brakes. 

Any tips welcome as I really am learning on the go.


----------



## tlg

tlg said:


> I'm working on a new build with a Flyxii FR602 cross frame built with Ultegra 6870 Di2 RS785 Hydraulic Disc Group.
> Frame was purchased on ebay from zgr9. Communication was "ok". They didn't have the BB I ordered so it took several days to work that out. The 12hr time difference and 1 question/answer per day took a little patience. But it all got straightened out and they were helpful. Shipping was *incredibly *fast. Package was accepted in China on Tues. I received it that Friday! Four days!
> 
> I was skeptical on the frame given mixed reviews. But this is going to be a gravel/winter/beater project bike so I wasn't all that concerned. I was pleasantly surprised at the quality. It arrived well packaged. The frame appears well built and I couldn't find a flaw. With the exception of the brake boss that had some epoxy build up on it. A little sandpaper fixed that. Most impressing is the inside of the frame. I've read horror stories of terrible interiors. But this is flawless inside. It's almost as smooth as the exterior. I tried to get some pic's but the camera wouldn't focus well on the inside.
> The listed weights were pretty accurate as well. They were listed as Frame : 900+/-50g ( 51cm) , Fork: 420+/-20g. My frame came in at 1025g for a 55cm. So 125g over, for two sizes larger. Not bad. The fork was a little under. I think 410g. I have it written down at home.
> 
> The build is almost complete, just have to wrap the bars. Final weight should be under 17.5lbs.


Here's the final build.


----------



## dgs_bikes

First post...but been lurking around for a while and learning.

I have narrowed it down to either the FM098 or the F8 and need some help - 

1. Of the two, which one will be more relaxed fit?
2, How does the ride compare between the two?
3. I am 5'11.5" with 33.25" bike inseam and 28" Arms. Fit calculator on Competitive Cyclist recommends a 57.5 for a relaxed fit. Can any similar sized folks here comment on 57.5/58 sizes on these. Please keep in mind that I am looking for a more relaxed fit.
4. Any idea on what should these particular frames, forks in 57.5 and 58 sizes generally weigh with a clear coat only for each of T800, T1000 and a T1100 composition? 

If F8, what's the best source from F8? I am leaning towards Greatkeen, Guangzhou Tantuo Sporting Goods Co., Ltd. or Young CycleTrade Sports on Aliexpress as they seem to have long(er) history and what seems to be like some material feedback. 

Thanks,
Desh


----------



## kleinstroker

dgs_bikes said:


> First post...but been lurking around for a while and learning.
> 
> I have narrowed it down to either the FM098 or the F8 and need some help -
> 
> 1. Of the two, which one will be more relaxed fit?
> 2, How does the ride compare between the two?
> 3. I am 5'11.5" with 33.25" bike inseam and 28" Arms. Fit calculator on Competitive Cyclist recommends a 57.5 for a relaxed fit. Can any similar sized folks here comment on 57.5/58 sizes on these. Please keep in mind that I am looking for a more relaxed fit.
> 4. Any idea on what should these particular frames, forks in 57.5 and 58 sizes generally weigh with a clear coat only for each of T800, T1000 and a T1100 composition?
> 
> If F8, what's the best source from F8? I am leaning towards Greatkeen, Guangzhou Tantuo Sporting Goods Co., Ltd. or Young CycleTrade Sports on Aliexpress as they seem to have long(er) history and what seems to be like some material feedback.
> 
> Thanks,
> Desh


Hi Desh

please do not rely on the Competitive Cyclist bike fit recommendations, they are way off IMO. I'm very similar size to you and most comfortable frame by a long way would be a 54 or 55 no way near a 58. You'll just end up stretching way too much.


----------



## Swen6

I'm about your height and I went 55cm on the F8, all frames will very, I brought the F8 and they my brother brought one from a different source both on Aliexpress and although I always thought they all sourced from the same manufacturing factory both and slight variances.

Greatkeen have always been helpful and I purchased my first Dogma from them, I've now flogged the copy F8 and swapped all bits to genuine frame...which is a 54. The Geo's on the copies are a mixture, my 55 when measured compared against the 54/55/56 measurements and one measurement was even from the 53!


----------



## dgs_bikes

Thanks both of you. 

Given my bike inseam at 33.25", most calculators are recommending 56-57-58 sizes, 57 being the sweetspot for a relaxed fit, which is why I was inclined to the 57-ish. 

The local LBS had Giant Defy 2 in M and L. He said the Giant Defy M size is more like 55 when compared to others, and the L is more like a 57. The M felt small to me, and the L felt just right and has a TT length of 575 per Giant's listed specs. 

The 575 TT length resolves to a 57.5 size on the F8 inspite of a slightly larger HT angle of 73.7 on F8 compared to the 72.5 on the defy. The way I read that is that I would be sitting a bit back relative to the crank axle on the Defy, but move forward on the F8 relative to the crank axle effectively maintaining a similar reach. I was relying on the seat for/aft, stem orientation, handle bar rotation and stem height to fine tune the 57.5 to a more relaxed ride. It sounds like I am completely off! -

Maybe I should try a couple of different bike shops/models locally today.

Thanks again.


----------



## Swen6

Most will tell you to ignore all of those type of measurements and go for the stack and reach measurements. Remember it's easier to raise your saddle and extend the stem, if the frame is too big it's harder to make it fit.

I would ignore all the Giant talk, if the sales person were worth their weight they would have told you they do a ML size which sits between M and L, even giant realised the jump between the frames was too big.

...remember you're building a bespoke bike to you, not a 'off the peg' factory sizing.


----------



## kleinstroker

I'm not sure something like a Giant Defy with very sloping TT would be a good frame to judge against the F8, which has a more traditional geometry. Going with a 56cm frame would be a much safer bet. Adding a slightly longer stem if needed is always going to better than buying a frame which is slightly too big and using a shorter stem. As mentioned though, geometries might not be spot on either on some Chinese frames.


----------



## dgs_bikes

I can't thank you guys enough! You guys saved me from a blunder and a lot of hassle and pain over the next few months had I gone ahead with the 57.5

Just got back from the local Performance Bike. Good collection of bikes, and surprisingly helpful staff (in spite of the larger than usual weekend traffic and the understaffed situation).

They let me try a Ridley Fenix AR1 7005 in M and L. There were probably many other better options, but given the understaffed situation, they provided the ones that were easy to pull for a quick sizing. Very reasonable given the situation! 

The M:
C-C top tube of 550 
Effective top tube of 565 
Reach of 390 
Stem 110
Handle 420


The L 
C-C top tube of 570 
Effective top tube of 585 
Reach of 400
Stem 110
Handle 440

The L felt humungous. I was struggling on it, and was almost sitting on the TT! But you all knew that would be the case already!

The M though was a mixed bag. The bike felt generally the right size, and the 420mm handle bar width felt right. The Stem at 110mm may have been much longer though. Maybe an 80 or a 100 would be slightly better. Overall it felt like the M (which seems to be an equivalent of the 56) seemed something that we could fit better with some work. The 420 handle bar also felt much better than the 440 that I was considering.

They had a 54 in another model, that I had tried first, and it had felt very small. It had a much more relaxed geometry too. 

I asked the guy if I should try a 54 in the same Ridley 7005 frame as the M and L, but he had seen me on the 54 of the other model, and he said it would be much smaller and aggressive fit, and suggested that it might be easier to consider the 56 as a starting point and wok the fit since I wanted a relaxed fit, instead of starting with the 54, especially given my slightly longer legs. 

The F8 56 ETT, and Reach are comparable to the M that I tried, although the St and HT angles are pushed forward by 0.5 to 1 degree which means I will be sitting a tad bit further on the F8 than my experience on the Ridley M.

Thanks,
Desh


----------



## Vee

There are separate forums for this kind of discussion. Can we get back on topic? 

I've just finished speaking with and ordering a WCB-R-066 from Regan of WorksWellBikes through Skype. We're having a custom design painted in pearl white and red. I was shocked when he quoted only 7 days of lead time before it would ship, but we will see what the reality is.

I also came across an insane deal on a sram force crank in pf30 which is one of few cranks designed to natively fit bbright frames.

Total cost on the frame, seatpost, headset, and fork with paint and shipping was $505. And the crank was $120. I can't believe the prices I found this time around. 

More to come once everything arrives.


----------



## pontoon

I got an FR-602. Does anyone know if it's possible to change the dropouts to be horizontal for chain adjustment when used with a Shimano Alfine hub? If so, what dropout do I want?

Here is my build in case anyone is wondering:

- FR-602 cyclocross frame
- 650b carbon rim 25mm od 27 5ER 25mm Width X23MM Depth Clincher MTB Carbon Rim 650B Mountain Bike Rim | eBay
- Two carbon saddles and one plastic unicanitor (Cycling Full Carbon Fiber Cyclocross Road Mountain Bike MTB Bicycle Saddle Seat | eBay and Full Carbon Fiber MTB Road Mountain Bike Bicycle Cycling Saddle Seat Cushion Pad | eBay)
- Carbon seatpost: Carbon Matt Cycling Road Bike Sports Mountain Bicycle MTB Seatpost 27 2mm 400mm | eBay
- Carbon mtb bars: 31 8mm 3K Carbon Fiber Straight Handlebar MTB Bike Bicycle Flat Bar Riser Bar DH | eBay
- Carbon stem: New Carbon Matt Cycling Road Bike Sports Mountain Bicycle MTB Stem 31 8mm 100mm | eBay
- Deore xt front hub, Alfine 11 rear hub
- Shimano BR-M612 disc brakes
- SRAM Force CX1 crankset
- Eccentric BB Exzentriker by Trickstuff which I would prefer to avoid and save weight by using the horizontal dropouts. Is that possible?

Did I pick any bad parts?


----------



## tlg

pontoon said:


> I got an FR-602. Does anyone know if it's possible to change the dropouts to be horizontal for chain adjustment when used with a Shimano Alfine hub? If so, what dropout do I want?


The dropouts are not replaceable. 




> Here is my build in case anyone is wondering:
> - FR-602 cyclocross frame
> - 650b carbon rim 25mm od


Why are you using a 650b wheel on a 700c frame?


----------



## ptsbike55

Vee said:


> There are separate forums for this kind of discussion. Can we get back on topic?
> 
> I've just finished speaking with and ordering a WCB-R-066 from Regan of WorksWellBikes through Skype. We're having a custom design painted in pearl white and red. I was shocked when he quoted only 7 days of lead time before it would ship, but we will see what the reality is.
> 
> I also came across an insane deal on a sram force crank in pf30 which is one of few cranks designed to natively fit bbright frames.
> 
> Total cost on the frame, seatpost, headset, and fork with paint and shipping was $505. And the crank was $120. I can't believe the prices I found this time around.
> 
> More to come once everything arrives.


Where did you find these guys? They have some nice frames.


----------



## Vee

ptsbike55 said:


> Where did you find these guys? They have some nice frames.


Some users on the forum have used them successfully.


----------



## timmy09

I have ordered YCRDF01 frame from Yoeleo. I asked for it to be 3K raw carbon so that I can paint it once delivered. 

I am wondering what primer to use on carbon? Hopefully a primer that is transparent as I want to keep some parts of the 3K weave visible.


----------



## pontoon

tlg said:


> The dropouts are not replaceable.
> 
> 
> Why are you using a 650b wheel on a 700c frame?


Thanks for the dropout tip. Now I don't have to return my eccentric BB. 

I picked 650b for the smaller wheel size which is lighter all other things being equal but more importantly for fender and toe clearance. Or does the bike have good fender clearance using 30-40mm tires on 700c?


----------



## dangit

*Carbon head tube problem*

Has anybody had the same issue as me? The inside of lower head tube looks really bad. It seems like a really bad repair job and there is still a hole. I contacted the seller and he is like "don't you trust me? the quality is excellent." It is my first Chinese carbon bike and I am afraid to ride it. The frame is just sitting in the basement for now as returning does not make a whole lot of sense to me when considering the shipping costs and etc.


----------



## ghettocop

OMG that head tube is a disaster. Good luck getting a bearing to seat correctly.


----------



## 00Garza

dangit said:


> Has anybody had the same issue as me? The inside of lower head tube looks really bad. It seems like a really bad repair job and there is still a hole. I contacted the seller and he is like "don't you trust me? the quality is excellent." It is my first Chinese carbon bike and I am afraid to ride it. The frame is just sitting in the basement for now as returning does not make a whole lot of sense to me when considering the shipping costs and etc.
> View attachment 308111
> View attachment 308112


For the good of those who visit this thread researching chinese carbon, would you mind sharing who you bought from? Its always good to know who is willing to sell poor quality products.


----------



## dangit

00Garza said:


> For the good of those who visit this thread researching chinese carbon, would you mind sharing who you bought from? Its always good to know who is willing to sell poor quality products.


Bought it from AliExpress. The seller is Young CycleTrade Sports Co, LTD and the contact person is Weifu liu. I am not sure whether the review for the frame was rigged or I was the unlucky one to get a lemon. Regardless, there is no warranty. This seller has no intension to make good on warranty.


----------



## robt57

ghettocop said:


> OMG that head tube is a disaster. Good luck getting a bearing to seat correctly.



I'd confidently fix that seat with JB weld. But that is a layer/layers? of cloth dried/cured away from the matrix!!! Does that indicate that the bladder failed during the process?? Or too much accelerator in the goo and the builder went for lunch before plugging in the vacuum and heating it? WTF, NO QC apparently.

"Mibs! Mibs! This is unacceptable! in the immortal words of Beldar Conehead [from France] 

That is why I would not put it on the road, that does not look like the just the bladder. Which begs the question, where else is the matrix compromised. I'd be all over getting my money back. And PayPal or my CC or both in my email would be abounding to put it lightly. ;0

Plastic, MEH.  [he adds jokingly]


----------



## myhui

I know ... a lazy question:

All the major manufacturers of Chinese carbon frames have moved to using BB86.

How can I fit Shimano's $400 (on sale) Dura-Ace crank set to those frames?

I'm tired of dealing with unthreaded bottom brackets.


----------



## Vee

Shimano cranks use 24mm spindles and are typically threaded (BSA) bottom brackets. However, BB86 also works with 24mm spindles, so you should just need a BB86 bottom bracket for your crank to work. Shimano Dura Ace BB86 Bottom Bracket | Competitive Cyclist


----------



## myhui

But it's not a threaded bottom bracket then.


----------



## pontoon

Is there an FR-602 style cross bike in BB86? I couldn't find one.


----------



## asherstash1

fm206 build


----------



## AirForceNole

Does anyone besides ican sell the a Scott Foil Replica? I checked HF, DF, MB, VB, ZW and a couple others. Didn't see anyone selling the old 053. Ican has the AC053. 

Does anyone have or know of any reviews for ican?


----------



## MMsRepBike

AirForceNole said:


> Does anyone besides ican sell the a Scott Foil Replica? I checked HF, DF, MB, VB, ZW and a couple others. Didn't see anyone selling the old 053. Ican has the AC053.
> 
> Does anyone have or know of any reviews for ican?


I'm 90% sure that's not a copy of the Foil. It's a copy of some other lesser known frame I can't think of at the moment.


----------



## AirForceNole

MMsRepBike said:


> I'm 90% sure that's not a copy of the Foil. It's a copy of some other lesser known frame I can't think of at the moment.


So out of all the other posts of other members posting AC053 and MC053 and those members state its a foil clone, you're the first to disagree. Interesting


----------



## asherstash1

if you just google "bike frame 053" plenty of options come up... and yes it clearly is the foil clone. old model foil but still...

also, wtf happened to this thread?


----------



## solarFlash

AirForceNole said:


> Does anyone besides ican sell the a Scott Foil Replica? I checked HF, DF, MB, VB, ZW and a couple others. Didn't see anyone selling the old 053. Ican has the AC053.
> 
> Does anyone have or know of any reviews for ican?


I bought my frame and forks -053 from Ican. I didn't have any problems, really easy to communicate with. They made a mistake with the paint, which I asked to see before sending. They repainted and fixed it at no extra cost and the frame arrived promptly. This was over 2 years ago now. The frame didn't explode despite riding it n everything. I did destroy the headset bearings after some indoor training (nothing unexpected) and the rear mech cable routing is a PITA especially when using it on a trainer, but I think they fixed it with the newer model. Seatpost slipped a bit to begin with but carbon paste has since fixed that. Local wheelbuilder built up pacenti SL23's and he was admiring how the frame rode with them. It's different to a foil when you see it side by side. The head tube isnt aero at all, its very wide. I'd bet the frame isn't really aero at all to be honest. The leading edge of the seat tube is very sharp, not like modern rounded profiles. But I like how the frame looks, it rides nice IMO, and it's more than light enough for me. My build is ~7.5kg with SRAM rival and no blingy bits. Hope this helps


----------



## pontoon

Is it common for the seller to forget the headset? I read about it happening to someone else. I just got my FR-602 and they forgot the headset, and they also forgot the seat clamp which they promised as a gift for not having the BB30 in stock as advertised.


----------



## Vee

I recently placed an order for my fourth Chinese carbon bike. I own both an FM015 and FM018, seen here: https://goo.gl/photos/GLtALJmas5nCNiTZ7 Both bikes have thousands of miles on them and are still going strong.

This time I am building a bike for my father. I went with a Workswell WCB-R-066 with "custom" paint, seen here: https://goo.gl/photos/iC1sSZ2XDogbboM39. My father picked out the paint job, which is heavily inspired by one of the new Pinarello paint schemes. I just received the bike yesterday, and everything seems fine. I will post full detail with many photos once I have completed the build. For now, though, I do have a few questions for Workswell owners.

1) I understand that the Workswell 066 frame does not utilize a crownrace, instead having one integrated into the fork. However, while the lower headset bearing appears to interface pretty well with the integrated race, the bearing does end up sitting really high on the steerer. Does this look right to you guys? https://goo.gl/photos/CEbp8d29KYhj28Fs9

2) The frame came with a box of small parts with some rubber plugs and guides for both electronic wire routing and mechanical cable routing. However, I worry I may be missing some, as I have a larger than expected hole where the front derailleur wire leaves the frame to attach to the derailleur, see here: https://goo.gl/photos/74jyv3UqPE7wqbCg8 and I only have a plug with a hole for a hole in front of the front derailleur that is intended for electronic shifting, which I won't be using, see here: https://goo.gl/photos/3W5knePpkGmPo4Ne8. Should I have a cable guide or some sort of additional fitting for the large hole that allows the mechanical cable through the frame? Also, should I have a "blank" plug for the front hole that would usually be dedicated to electronic wires?

3) I specifically asked that the 68mm bottom bracket not be installed in the frame at the factory. However, the bottom bracket area of this frame is a little bit tight. I Have not attempted to press the PF30 bottom bracket in, just yet, but it does feel like the tolerance is a little tighter than it should be. Did any of you encounter this? Is there any cause for concern there? 

Thanks for your help.


----------



## asherstash1

well that bearing sat up like that looks unusual... but how does the whole thing sit inside the headtube, surely that will tell you if it is correct?
is there simply one plug (the one with small hole) and you just put it in whatever hole you don't use? what is the wire guide set-up on the bottom bb?


----------



## pontoon

Anyone know a carbon crankset? Looking for a 1x lightweight carbon crankset if possible in 41.8mm chainline or as close as possible. 24mm spindle


----------



## Vee

asherstash1 said:


> well that bearing sat up like that looks unusual... but how does the whole thing sit inside the headtube, surely that will tell you if it is correct?
> is there simply one plug (the one with small hole) and you just put it in whatever hole you don't use? what is the wire guide set-up on the bottom bb?


Well, the good news is that the integrated crown race issue is non-existent. I pressed the headset bearings into the frame and the fork to frame tolerance is very acceptable, even without the proper pre-load on the headset (I have not cut the steerer still). I still haven't run the cables to know why the hole for the FD cable is so large, but the guide under the BB appears to route it through the large hole as I expected. Now for the bad news... 

The bottom bracket shell tolerance is a bit too tight. I pressed in the plastic PF30 bottom bracket that came with the Force 22 crank and the bb shell tolerances cause the plastic cups to deform enough to cause some heavy drag on the non-drive side bearing. So much drag, in fact, that I actually cannot get one full revolution of the force crank with it installed. I disassembled it and pushed out the bb and tried it on the crank uninstalled and the bb feels a little rough on that side, now. I decided to try purchasing a metal cupped PF30 bb, but on a whim I researched Shimano cranks and realized that they are a LOT cheaper. Therefore, I actually decided to use the grossly overweight (186g) 24mm press fit bottom bracket, which utilizes metal cups, that came with the frame. Pressing this in was even more difficult, but the end result is better. Still, the non-drive side bearing drags a bit more than the drive-side, but time will tell what affect this has on the actual crankset (I await it's arrival from the UK). Hopefully it works itself out, but I am pretty annoyed with PF30 at this point. I obviously spoke with Workswell about this issue and I am told that "BB into frame, tight is good!" and "The BB tight with frame and it doesn't matter for spinning." I assume they are suggesting that I should not care that my crank may not rotate freely on it's own.

For what it's worth I own enough bikes that I have the following bottom brackets: GXP/BSA, BB30, and square taper. I now have a BBright/PF30 frame and this is the first time I have had any issue with bottom brackets. The BB30 frame I built up was also chinese and I had no trouble with tolerances there. Luck of the draw? Maybe. The total WCB-R-066 was much cheaper than the FM066, but the FM066 has a threaded BB option that might be worth the premium. Press fit bottom brackets really do rely on manufacturers to do their job well. Slight intolerance in BB shell diameter appears to cause a lot of trouble for this BB design, which is something you should all keep in mind when ordering BB30/PF30/BBright frames from China.

Would love to hear your thoughts on this, guys.


----------



## MMsRepBike

Enduro Torqtite should solve it. It fits a tad loose in the frame but gets tightened clamping style. You can get 30mm or Shimano. Much better than press fit. I didn't gather if you have a PF30 or BBright but it'll do both. Just depends on how much of the inner threaded sleeve is used.

I think wheels manufacturing may have cheaper but basically the same options now. Worth checking as well.


----------



## Vee

MMsRepBike said:


> Enduro Torqtite should solve it. It fits a tad loose in the frame but gets tightened clamping style. You can get 30mm or Shimano. Much better than press fit. I didn't gather if you have a PF30 or BBright but it'll do both. Just depends on how much of the inner threaded sleeve is used.
> 
> I think wheels manufacturing may have cheaper but basically the same options now. Worth checking as well.


 The WCB-R-066 frame is only available in BBright, unfortunately, so that is what I have. The Enduro Torqtite looks nice but at $200 I think I would just put up with the bearing drag. I might give wheels manufacturing a shout tomorrow to see if their bottom brackets are also meant to fit a tad looser than usual. Hopefully that would be the answer.


----------



## MMsRepBike

Add in another $60 or so for the tools to top it off. Hopefully wheels has something.


----------



## asherstash1

I have avoided all these pressfit bb's as I have heard nothing good about them and am running English thread SRAM gxp, plenty stiff enough for me lol. the random assertions that its all fine from Chinese side are as we know nothing new, this time with mine when I pointed out the inner top cap of the steerer was bonded in place as per their TT bikes and that I was going to have to cut it off because the steerer was 8 inches too long. they said "have you assembled headset? insert spacers and will be ok", yup coz everyone rides around with a totally uncut fork steerer covered in spacers... this was one of many problems with this frame and I have not been impressed with Deng-Fu at all


----------



## ptsbike55

Do you have a weight on the frame and fork?


----------



## Vee

ptsbike55 said:


> Do you have a weight on the frame and fork?


If that was directed at me with the wcb-r-066 the frame is 54cm and weighed 899 grams with braze on mount, rubber plugs, bottle cage bolts, and rd hanger. The fork is 375 grams uncut.


----------



## timmy09

Just had my Yoeleo YCRDF01 disk brake frame delivered. Left pretty annoyed as I was very excited by the frame until I realised the fork has disk brake mount the frame has rim brake screw and no mount for disk brakes! 

Now comes the test of customer service department. I will hope at their cost the error is put right otherwise will lodge PayPal dispute.


----------



## Vee

MMsRepBike said:


> Add in another $60 or so for the tools to top it off. Hopefully wheels has something.


I just wanted to make sure I thanked you for the mention of the Enduro Torqtite. I had seen the Wheels Manufacturing version of this bottom bracket before but didn't fully understand them. I just received an email response from Wheels Manufacturing that explains that the design of their outboard bottom brackets is similar to the Enduro Torqtite in that it, "is slightly smaller as well to allow it to turn freely." That sounds like a great option that will more than likely work to resolve my issue. I am still going to attempt to use the press fit 24mm bottom bracket that came with the frame. If it poses a major issue after putting some miles on the bike then I will purchase and install this Wheels Manufacturing outboard BB made for BBright.


----------



## pianopiano

(Re: timmy09) - Wow, that's a major screwup. They owe you the proper frame. Hopefully things get resolved properly, and in good time.


----------



## ptsbike55

<a href="https://s1309.photobucket.com/user/philsnoddy55/media/20150818_203214_zpsszuxqjab.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="https://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s638/philsnoddy55/20150818_203214_zpsszuxqjab.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 20150818_203214_zpsszuxqjab.jpg"/></a>New paint on my RF002. is a 4 year old frame with abut 25,000 miles on it.


----------



## pianopiano

ptsbike55 said:


> <a href="https://s1309.photobucket.com/user/philsnoddy55/media/20150818_203214_zpsszuxqjab.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="https://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s638/philsnoddy55/20150818_203214_zpsszuxqjab.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 20150818_203214_zpsszuxqjab.jpg"/></a>New paint on my RF002. is a 4 year old frame with abut 25,000 miles on it.


Nice color! It's like you have a brand new bike.


----------



## timmy09

Love bikes with some bright colours. 

Once my frame issue is rectified I am thinking of colouring it pearl red with some exposed carbon. Like the car...


----------



## ptsbike55

timmy09 said:


> Love bikes with some bright colours.
> 
> Once my frame issue is rectified I am thinking of colouring it pearl red with some exposed carbon. Like the car...
> View attachment 308464


Just be careful with the pearl. it didn't work out well on my paint and I ended up re-stripping the paint and going with the orange.


----------



## ptsbike55

Vee said:


> If that was directed at me with the wcb-r-066 the frame is 54cm and weighed 899 grams with braze on mount, rubber plugs, bottle cage bolts, and rd hanger. The fork is 375 grams uncut.


Wow! They advertise a 51 cm at 780 gms. I wouldn't think a 54 cm would weigh that much more, but I guess it does.


----------



## timmy09

ptsbike55 said:


> Just be careful with the pearl. it didn't work out well on my paint and I ended up re-stripping the paint and going with the orange.


What went wrong with pearl? I am fortunate to have a company that specialises in painting products.


----------



## ptsbike55

I didn't mix in enough pearl for one thing. I was spraying over white. The other thing to watch for is what color will show when you get it out in the sunlight. Since you have a company familiar with pearl paints, you should be good on how much to mix, etc.


----------



## Vee

ptsbike55 said:


> Wow! They advertise a 51 cm at 780 gms. I wouldn't think a 54 cm would weigh that much more, but I guess it does.


China has never accurately listed the weight of their products. The estimates given are always going to be lower than the actual product. I don't have that much paint on my frame, either. With all of the fasteners removed I would bet it's close to 860 grams, and I would bet that the 51 is closer to 830 grams. Also notice that 780 grams they list has a +/- 40 behind it.


----------



## ptsbike55

Vee said:


> China has never accurately listed the weight of their products. The estimates given are always going to be lower than the actual product. I don't have that much paint on my frame, either. With all of the fasteners removed I would bet it's close to 860 grams, and I would bet that the 51 is closer to 830 grams. Also notice that 780 grams they list has a +/- 40 behind it.


Still, at 860 gms. without paint is pretty light. It is a good-looking frame.


----------



## Kickngas

ptsbike55 said:


> New paint on my RF002. is a 4 year old frame with abut 25,000 miles on it.


What orange paint code did you use?


----------



## pianopiano

*Import Fees/Duties?*

Just wondering if there are any Canadians here who've recently ordered a frame from China, and if so, were you charged any import fees or duties? 
I've ordered carbon rims, handlebars, and a few other items through AliExpress sellers and there were no extra fees, but I hate surprises, and would just like to double check before placing my frame order. Thanks.


----------



## ptsbike55

I will have to see if I saved that code somewhere.


----------



## Kickngas

ptsbike55 said:


> I will have to see if I saved that code somewhere.


Thanks! Hard to find a nice looking orange.


----------



## robt57

timmy09 said:


> Love bikes with some bright colours.



Me too, far cry from my mono chromatic 90s Ti days. 

That orange rocks IMO. I was originally going orange until I saw this green for my All road custom.

My recently finished green machine, has nice gold metallic in the clear top coat. It pops in the sun, and under an overcast sky looks very opaque yellow/grn like the Lamborghini green.

I was first thinking Molteni orange family, or that Orange color of Chavanelles old Scott, but that green got me.

Orange next, although not due for a while now for another new bike. My 2007 Addict LTD may get an orange remake to ward off getting a new plastic bike.


----------



## SL06

piano said:


> Just wondering if there are any Canadians here who've recently ordered a frame from China, and if so, were you charged any import fees or duties?
> I've ordered carbon rims, handlebars, and a few other items through AliExpress sellers and there were no extra fees, but I hate surprises, and would just like to double check before placing my frame order. Thanks.


Post Canada collect money only haft the time. Its like a lottery for now but things might change in the near future. Import fee are minimal or non existent on frame, handling fee is like 6$, but you have to pay canadian taxes...


----------



## Jan-Lolek

Hello.

I can't find anything about the MENDIZ RST.

carbon frame mendiz RST wholesale carbon bikes frame road carbon china bicycle carbon frame downhill bike 48cm 50cm 52cm 54cm 56-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

Does anybody has any experiance with that frame or similar frames?


----------



## asherstash1

I dunno but I bought my first frame from greatkeen and they were good...


----------



## kip.duff

Built my Hong Fu FM039 in 2012, but haven't riden it much- about 2500 miles I guess. The other day, the rear deraileur started shifting real bad after I pulled a little harder than I usually do on the shifter lever (Durace 7700 9-speed). After checking all components, it appears that the bend area where the cable housing is routed inside the frame above the BB has worn thru, and the cable is jamming/binding near the BB. My guess is that the cable has sawn thru the cable guide/housing inside the frame. I am using stock Shimano cable and cable housing, and shifting has always been quite nice. Cable is being pulled and released correctly at the shift lever- delayed/incorrect response at the deraileur end- both up and down shifting.

I searched the 6.0 thread, but saw nothing like this.

Anyone had this problem? Warranty?

If I am correct in my diagnosis, I guess I can run the cable externally. Can't see a way to fix it. I could run a cable externally like my CDale CAAD 7- would have to attach some brackets to the downtube and chainstays- with some kind of sheath for the bend under the BB. Or just run an outer cable housing all the way between the shifter and deraileur (ugly).

If I am corect in my diagnosis, I'm disapointed in the bike- can't believe the internal cable routing could wear out so quick.

ANYONE SEEN THIS? BETTER SOLUTION? THANKS, KIP...............


----------



## Vee

kip.duff said:


> Built my Hong Fu FM039 in 2012, but haven't riden it much- about 2500 miles I guess. The other day, the rear deraileur started shifting real bad after I pulled a little harder than I usually do on the shifter lever (Durace 7700 9-speed). After checking all components, it appears that the bend area where the cable housing is routed inside the frame above the BB has worn thru, and the cable is jamming/binding near the BB. My guess is that the cable has sawn thru the cable guide/housing inside the frame. I am using stock Shimano cable and cable housing, and shifting has always been quite nice. Cable is being pulled and released correctly at the shift lever- delayed/incorrect response at the deraileur end- both up and down shifting.
> 
> I searched the 6.0 thread, but saw nothing like this.
> 
> Anyone had this problem? Warranty?
> 
> If I am correct in my diagnosis, I guess I can run the cable externally. Can't see a way to fix it. I could run a cable externally like my CDale CAAD 7- would have to attach some brackets to the downtube and chainstays- with some kind of sheath for the bend under the BB. Or just run an outer cable housing all the way between the shifter and deraileur (ugly).
> 
> If I am corect in my diagnosis, I'm disapointed in the bike- can't believe the internal cable routing could wear out so quick.
> 
> ANYONE SEEN THIS? BETTER SOLUTION? THANKS, KIP...............


I haven't seen what you are talking about, but if it were me and the inner lining was confirmed to have sawed through I would try to run cable housing through the frame by drilling out the points where the cable enters the inner housing. It shouldn't be that difficult.


----------



## asherstash1

pictures?


----------



## kip.duff

asherstash1 said:


> pictures?



There's nothing to see- wish I could see the problem area; then I'd know for sure what's going on. The cable with outer housing fits into the top tube near steering head. Then bare cable runs thru the frame downtube and chain stay thru some sort of conduit- then comes out right at rear of chainstay, and there is about an 8" section of outer housing that terminates at the deraileur.

I'm gonna mount a full length outer new housing temporary outside attached to the frame to confirm my theory (or disproove it!). If my diagnosis is correct, it would be important for people to know- Hong Fu could improve the setup so other people don't have same problem. Not fair to Hong Fu to say much until I confirm my diagnosis.


----------



## asherstash1

its a shame coz routing like that round such big bend, at a point where it will by definition get heavy wear, should be over a hard plastic, accessible and most importantly REPLACEABLE cable guide! early Chinese internal routing errors I suppose, I wonder we haven't heard this story more?


----------



## Tobic

Vee said:


> I haven't seen what you are talking about, but if it were me and the inner lining was confirmed to have sawed through I would try to run cable housing through the frame by drilling out the points where the cable enters the inner housing. It shouldn't be that difficult.


I have almost identical issues with the rear brake of my FM098. Going into the 4th season with the bike, its got around 10k km on it. The liner inside the top tube is broken, it doesnt withstand the tension of the brake cable under tension any longer. Unfortunately, it seems to be laminated into the frame. I rerouted the brake cable outside the frame using zip ties. Not the most beautiful fix, but the easiest one.


----------



## kip.duff

Vee said:


> I haven't seen what you are talking about, but if it were me and the inner lining was confirmed to have sawed through I would try to run cable housing through the frame by drilling out the points where the cable enters the inner housing. It shouldn't be that difficult.


I don't think I would be able to fish the cable housing thru. I guess not much lost in trying though- just drill out the seats at the current entry and exit locations. Will be fighting the existing/failed integral cable housing.


----------



## kip.duff

asherstash1 said:


> its a shame coz routing like that round such big bend, at a point where it will by definition get heavy wear, should be over a hard plastic, accessible and most importantly REPLACEABLE cable guide! early Chinese internal routing errors I suppose, I wonder we haven't heard this story more?


I wonder why also- hope I'm wrong: gonna install outer complete cable housing and secure with zip ties like Tobic- that should give me a 100% diagnosis certainty. I'll report to thread.


----------



## kip.duff

Tobic said:


> I have almost identical issues with the rear brake of my FM098. Going into the 4th season with the bike, its got around 10k km on it. The liner inside the top tube is broken, it doesnt withstand the tension of the brake cable under tension any longer. Unfortunately, it seems to be laminated into the frame. I rerouted the brake cable outside the frame using zip ties. Not the most beautiful fix, but the easiest one.



Right- gonna do that to be sure my diagnosis is correct. If correct, I may ask Hong Fu if there is any warranty options. I still think it's a pretty good bike, but public knowledge of this flaw could definately effect sales. Kind of a loosing issue though consideting $160 shipping charges.

I may also try to glue some cable brackets for the outer housing, and run the cable externally- lotta bikes run it this way. Outer housing to first bracket at top of down tube- then exposed inner cable runs down and under BB, sliding on teflon guide on bottom of BB- then outer housing from another bracket at rear of chainstay to deraileur. This would look nicer- and might have less friction. Anyone know ehere I can get the brackets?


----------



## pontoon

The FR-602 I got came with a kind of cheap headset. Anyone have experience with these? Worth replacing? If so what's the best price vs grams option? I did get the extralite expander although I don't know how it works. If that can replace the whole expander on the included headset, that's a lot of weight saved.

Edit: looks like FSA is decent for the cost. What one fits?


----------



## kip.duff

kip.duff said:


> Built my Hong Fu FM039 in 2012, but haven't riden it much- about 2500 miles I guess. The other day, the rear deraileur started shifting real bad after I pulled a little harder than I usually do on the shifter lever (Durace 7700 9-speed). After checking all components, it appears that the bend area where the cable housing is routed inside the frame above the BB has worn thru, and the cable is jamming/binding near the BB. My guess is that the cable has sawn thru the cable guide/housing inside the frame. I am using stock Shimano cable and cable housing, and shifting has always been quite nice. Cable is being pulled and released correctly at the shift lever- delayed/incorrect response at the deraileur end- both up and down shifting.
> 
> I searched the 6.0 thread, but saw nothing like this.
> 
> Anyone had this problem? Warranty?
> 
> If I am correct in my diagnosis, I guess I can run the cable externally. Can't see a way to fix it. I could run a cable externally like my CDale CAAD 7- would have to attach some brackets to the downtube and chainstays- with some kind of sheath for the bend under the BB. Or just run an outer cable housing all the way between the shifter and deraileur (ugly).
> 
> If I am corect in my diagnosis, I'm disapointed in the bike- can't believe the internal cable routing could wear out so quick.
> 
> ANYONE SEEN THIS? BETTER SOLUTION? THANKS, KIP...............



My original diagnosis is correct- the internal conduit for the rear deraileur control cable has failed inside the frame of my FM039 causing failure of shift control. I know this because I ran an full-length outer cable housing secured with zip-ties between the Dura Ace 9-speed brake lever/shifter and the Dura Ace rear deraileur using the same inner cable, and the shifting is perfect. 

As stated earlier, I want to glue some cable housing brackets at top of downtube and rear of chainstay so I can run a standard, non-internal shifter cable setup with exposed cable between the brackets and a teflon guide shield on bottom of BB.

I'm also gonna research with Hong Fu if there is some sort of warranty for this issue at such low mileage.

I'm also gonna check into Vee's idea as a solution. 

One of the reasons that we (I at any rate) like this bikes is that they are beautiful machines with trick features (like internal cable routing). Right now it has shifter setup of least expensive bikes on market, and looks Mickey Mouse.


----------



## bmax119

Hey all, first time working with chinese carbon dealer and wanted to know if anyone has any experience with miracle bikes? I've purchased the following frame and am awaiting custom paint job. super light road carbon frame-Carbon bike frame,Carbon bike parts,Carbon bicycle frame,Carbon road frame,Carbon MTB frame

I can say this, dealing with Jenny there, they have been SUPER responsive and patient with me, as I've changed the design on them about 10 times. I'd say 70 emails were sent back and forth until we settled on paint job/colors/fonts/etc. I'll post pics of frame once delivered and weights. Just wanted to see if anyone else has dealt with them and had a good experience.


----------



## Matthijs1973

I haven't received my mt mc696 frame from them yet but communications is good and fast. My frame shoud be ready any time now, just waiting for shipping.



bmax119 said:


> Hey all, first time working with chinese carbon dealer and wanted to know if anyone has any experience with miracle bikes? I've purchased the following frame and am awaiting custom paint job. super light road carbon frame-Carbon bike frame,Carbon bike parts,Carbon bicycle frame,Carbon road frame,Carbon MTB frame
> 
> I can say this, dealing with Jenny there, they have been SUPER responsive and patient with me, as I've changed the design on them about 10 times. I'd say 70 emails were sent back and forth until we settled on paint job/colors/fonts/etc. I'll post pics of frame once delivered and weights. Just wanted to see if anyone else has dealt with them and had a good experience.


----------



## Etan125

I had this built a couple of months ago, but here are the specs.

Hongfu FM032
Full Dura-Ace 9000
Fizik Antares seat
PRO Vibe Sprint Carbon Stem
PRO Vibe Sprint aluminum Handlebar
Supra RC58 Carbon Clincher Wheels










A picture of both my 2 wheeled passions.


----------



## RBikrider

Etan125 said:


> I had this built a couple of months ago, but here are the specs.
> 
> Hongfu FM032
> Full Dura-Ace 9000
> Fizik Antares seat
> PRO Vibe Sprint Carbon Stem
> PRO Vibe Sprint aluminum Handlebar
> Supra RC58 Carbon Clincher Wheels
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A picture of both my 2 wheeled passions.


Nice, how much did your frameset cost ?

Is it same as this one ?
CS-032 T800 super light DI2 carbon road bike frame/fork/seatpost/clamp - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


----------



## Etan125

RBikrider said:


> Nice, how much did your frameset cost ?
> 
> Is it same as this one ?
> CS-032 T800 super light DI2 carbon road bike frame/fork/seatpost/clamp - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd


That frameset seems to be identical to mine.
I paid $612.23 with an extra rear hanger shipped to California.


----------



## Bkelly

Wow, so... I haven't posted on RBR in a long time and getting to the point where I can post again has been a trial. But...

I built a HongFu FM015 about 5 or so years ago. It has been a great bike. It is a rocket and climbs like a MFer. because of my positive experience I decided to build a new mountain bike. Way more complicated.

When building my road bike I depended a lot on this forum and am now leaning on the MTBR forums for my new bike. Someone on MTBR (in troll fashion) complained about the lack of long term reviews. Though trollish he was right.

So after Several years I thought I would express on this forum my satisfaction with the bike.
I have never had any problems with the frame. This after over 5000 miles, triathlons, and several road races.
The only significant mechanical problem I can report is a broken rear Brifter that is common with SRAM Force. (look on Ebay - plenty of left shifters on sale, not many right)

here are a couple of pics. one with the still unbuilt MTB sister and another of the only crack I have ever found on the bike (paint only).

Again, I am a happy bike builder and would do so again without hesitation


----------



## snipe

SL06 said:


> Post Canada collect money only haft the time. Its like a lottery for now but things might change in the near future. Import fee are minimal or non existent on frame, handling fee is like 6$, but you have to pay canadian taxes...


My assessment of whether you end up paying duties tax etc depends on the value of the goods and the mood of the agents who look at your package or maybe it slips through unchecked. I am not sure whether this a random selection or not. However many sellers will lower the value of the goods. It seems like the magic number for me is $100 or less. 

Also remember that if by chance you are going out of the country for 2 days you can declare your purchase, if made while you are out of the country, even if the item is not purchased in the country you are visiting. So if you go to the states for 2 days you can buy your frame from china and then declare it at the border when you reenter canada that you have 'goods to follow'. Show them the purchase invoice if need be, and they will fill out the goods to follow form and then if you have to pay duties on the item when it arrives you send in your paperwork to rev canada and get your money back.


----------



## devillee1993

wondering how is your wheels feeling?


----------



## snipe

Bkelly said:


> View attachment 308926
> View attachment 308927
> Wow, so... I haven't posted on RBR in a long time and getting to the point where I can post again has been a trial. But...
> 
> I built a HongFu FM015 about 5 or so years ago. It has been a great bike. It is a rocket and climbs like a MFer. because of my positive experience I decided to build a new mountain bike. Way more complicated.
> 
> When building my road bike I depended a lot on this forum and am now leaning on the MTBR forums for my new bike. Someone on MTBR (in troll fashion) complained about the lack of long term reviews. Though trollish he was right.
> 
> So after Several years I thought I would express on this forum my satisfaction with the bike.
> I have never had any problems with the frame. This after over 5000 miles, triathlons, and several road races.
> The only significant mechanical problem I can report is a broken rear Brifter that is common with SRAM Force. (look on Ebay - plenty of left shifters on sale, not many right)
> 
> here are a couple of pics. one with the still unbuilt MTB sister and another of the only crack I have ever found on the bike (paint only).
> 
> Again, I am a happy bike builder and would do so again without hesitation


How do you know the crack is only in the paint?


----------



## timmy09

Update on my order:

As previously stated I ordered my frame from Yoeleo. Communication was fine and delivery was smooth. Unfortunately, the wrong frame arrived! 

I sent pics and told Yoeleo of the situation. I had been speaking to Jasmine Zheng. She gave me the option on them sending out a new frame but in UD finish instead of 3K finish. 3K would be a 30 day wait. 

It has been 20 days and I have sent 2 emails for an update on the order but no response so far, whereas before the order was placed I got replies everyday. 

I will wait the 30 days but should I then launch a PayPal dispute if I still have no reply?


----------



## .je

I think there's a time limit to a PayPal dispute of 30 days. This probably isn't the reason for the vendor's 30 day wait, but don't let it run out.

I think too that if you sent Yoeleo an email of your intention to process the dispute, they'd respond.


----------



## Bkelly

this first appeared in the spring after a cold winter. since the crack appeared I have put on over 2k miles on the bike with no further lengthening of the crack. there is no change in the stiffness of the bike, that spot shows no softness or sponginess there, nor any of the fiber threads showing.


----------



## Bkelly

These are Easton EA90SLX wheels. I like them a lot. The only problem I have had was a broken front spoke. Easton uses a straight pull round spoke that is hard to source. I ended up using a bladed spoke as a replacement because it was easier to find. the wheel trued to within 1mm after replacing the spoke. they are stiff and light weight.


----------



## snipe

Bkelly said:


> this first appeared in the spring after a cold winter. since the crack appeared I have put on over 2k miles on the bike with no further lengthening of the crack. there is no change in the stiffness of the bike, that spot shows no softness or sponginess there, nor any of the fiber threads showing.


Interesting that it follows the contour of the cable port as if the port assembly is premade, bonded into the surface layers, been stressed somehow and it is separating, cracking the paint. That theory being complete speculation. Its curious to see paint just crack for no reason. Regardless it doesn't seem to be an issue and you certainly got your moneys worth. Nice looking paint scheme.


----------



## Bkelly

Thanks about the paint scheme. your theory holds merit, probably not far from the truth. I do keep a close eye on that spot but I am confident in the overall quality of the frame.


----------



## timmy09

Paypal has changed from the 30 day limit to 6 months (at least this is the case in the UK). I will be patient and give them the 30 days they stated, I would have appreciated a response to my email in the mean time to acknowledge that my frame is in the pipeline etc. 

About to order some wheels, not sure where from or which wheels, lots to read up on.. (recommendations welcome)


----------



## by666

*30 days*

email yoeleo that you are going to file a dispute with paypal and they will return your email. you only have 30 days to file a dispute with paypal. if yoeleo doesnt answer file the dispute to protect yourself
QUOTE=timmy09;4916153]Update on my order:
. 
As previously stated I ordered my frame from Yoeleo. Communication was fine and delivery was smooth. Unfortunately, the wrong frame arrived! 

I sent pics and told Yoeleo of the situation. I had been speaking to Jasmine Zheng. She gave me the option on them sending out a new frame but in UD finish instead of 3K finish. 3K would be a 30 day wait. 

It has been 20 days and I have sent 2 emails for an update on the order but no response so far, whereas before the order was placed I got replies everyday. 

I will wait the 30 days but should I then launch a PayPal dispute if I still have no reply?[/QUOTE]


----------



## pianopiano

You need to cover yourself first. Make sure that you file your Paypal claim in time. In my experience, some sellers will often times play games w/ you, waiting until the very last second, thinking that you'll just forget about it, and they'll avoid you as long as they can. As soon as you file a dispute, if it gets that far, you'll hear from them pretty quickly.



by666 said:


> email yoeleo that you are going to file a dispute with paypal and they will return your email. you only have 30 days to file a dispute with paypal. if yoeleo doesnt answer file the dispute to protect yourself
> QUOTE=timmy09;4916153]Update on my order:
> .
> As previously stated I ordered my frame from Yoeleo. Communication was fine and delivery was smooth. Unfortunately, the wrong frame arrived!
> 
> I sent pics and told Yoeleo of the situation. I had been speaking to Jasmine Zheng. She gave me the option on them sending out a new frame but in UD finish instead of 3K finish. 3K would be a 30 day wait.
> 
> It has been 20 days and I have sent 2 emails for an update on the order but no response so far, whereas before the order was placed I got replies everyday.
> 
> I will wait the 30 days but should I then launch a PayPal dispute if I still have no reply?


[/QUOTE]


----------



## Madone74

*Anyone ordered from DHgate?*

Has anybody ordered a frameset from dhgate? If so, what was the quality like and do you have contact details or a name of who dealt with your order?
Thanks in advance
Shane


----------



## Cooman

*Chinese Frame and wheelset Warning! (Miracle bikes-Dengfu)*

Public warning for whom planning to buy Miracle bikes!
Dear Friends
15 months ago I bought a TT bike frame and wheelset from Miracle bikes. (Dengfu is also same company). After installing all compenents I have noticed a crack on frame just in front of seatpost. They have immediately changed the frame. That’s fine. But when my rear Wheel is broken they said the warranty of wheels are just one year and they will not replace it. I have gone through all their product pages on Alibaba, and Ali Express, 2 years of warranty is mentioned on all products. But they ignore this and saying me that warranty is one year.
My comments on quality. The brake surface of wheels are disaster. When you brake it shakes all your body as there is no constant braking due to surface quality. To stop the bike I start applying power on brake very very early. I don’t know how happened but one day I noticed a sound from rear Wheel when break. Some part of clincher is broken and touching brake. I did not ride them more then 5-6 times due to winter…
I don’t suggest you to buy anything from this company. They are not trustful. The product quality is not ok.


----------



## tlg

Cooman said:


> But when my rear Wheel is broken they said the warranty of wheels are just one year and they will not replace it. I have gone through all their product pages on Alibaba, and Ali Express, 2 years of warranty is mentioned on all products. But they ignore this and saying me that warranty is one year.[/FONT][/COLOR]


 Did you buy it through Alibaba or directly from Miracle bikes?



> My comments on quality. The brake surface of wheels are disaster. When you brake it shakes all your body as there is no constant braking due to surface quality. To stop the bike I start applying power on brake very very early. I don’t know how happened but one day I noticed a sound from rear Wheel when break. Some part of clincher is broken and touching brake. I did not ride them more then 5-6 times due to winter…


Post pictures of the damage so we can see.



> I don’t suggest you to buy anything from this company. They are not trustful. The product quality is not ok.


Yes that's the risk you take when buying foreign Chinese products.


----------



## Cooman

Hi I paid it by PayPal then I took them from their office in Shenzen as I was there for a business trip I have pictures with them. 

Here you may find the picture of damage on my wheelset. It is chlincher... 

They just emailed me and said that they will pay it back. I will update you about the progress


----------



## bmax119

Ok, long post ahead, but wanted to cover everything regarding my latest purchase. about 2 months ago I was looking for a bike for my daughter (xs frame as she's 11) and came across Carbon bike frame,Carbon bike parts,Carbon bicycle frame,Carbon road frame,Carbon MTB frame I was intrigued by the frames I saw and decided to explore a little deeper. Jenny was incredibly responsive and patient with me as I was researching frame sizes, geometry charts and custom paint/decal job. I would guess we shared over 100 emails back and forth and she was always professional and quick to respond. Once I had finally decided on colors and decals, I purchased the frame - a MC296 in 45cm size. After about a week, I emailed and was told that the layup was still in process. After another 3 days or so I got an email showing me the decals all printed up and asking me to approve, which I did. Another week went by and I got an email with bad news. Jenny informed me that the factory had sent her the right frame, but it was BSA, not BB30 as I had requested. She attempted to get me to accept the BSA frame, but I informed her that parts had already been purchased and the crank situation would not work. The next day I received an email asking me if I would consider getting a MC096 frame instead as they had one in stock in the 45cm size. The geometry was a bit different, but barely. I told her I would accept the alternate frame, but that I was not happy with the switch and was disappointed with the mixup. After another week and not hearing anything (12 hour time difference sucks) I finally got an email from Jenny, that she had received my original MC296 frame in the right size, right BB. 5 days later, the frame was completed, pics were sent to me, and the frame was shipped. About 8 days or so later, I received the frame (BTW, EMS shipping tracking sucks) at my door. It was packaged incredibly well and the frame was in immaculate condition. Jenny also threw in an extra derailleur hanger for me as well. I immediately inspected every nook and cranny of the frame/fork (both inside and out) and was beyond impressed. The decal/paint job was highly professional. Perfect colors and font that I requested. The matte finish was extremely well done and the inside of the frame was beautiful as well. I took it to my daughter's bike shop sponsor for the build. A mix of SRAM red/force, Boyd Altamont tubeless wheels, cockpit was a mixed batch of components for small hands and narrow sitbones. The build was done in a day, believe it or not, and when I picked it up I had the mechanics asking me a ton of questions about the bike frame builder. They were extremely impressed with the quality of the frame. Internal routing was NOT an issue, it was smooth as silk they said. Everything about the build was perfect except one small issue. Apparently, the front derailleur braze on mount was positioned perfectly for a 50 and up chainring. My daughter has to ride junior gears so she's on a 44 big ring. With the front derailleur slammed, there is a tiny bit of lag time for a front shift. My daughter doesn't notice it, but the mechanic did. Other than that small issue, perfect build. Highly recommend Miracle bikes, even with the mixup we had. Kudos to them for fixing the issue and making sure the customer, me, got what I wanted.


----------



## Matthijs1973

My Miracle mt mc696 frame arrived yesterday, ordered on 20 august, so about a month waiting ;-) Frame and parts are very nice, UD Matt, I will build it with Ultegra 6800, Cosmic SLS wheels and a 3t cockpit. Communications with Jenny are perfect, very fast response, the frame and parts were very well packed.


----------



## jimlmackjr

this guy on craiglist I am sure he trying to pass a CHINA VENGE as real for the price he asking 
54cm Custom Carbon Road Bike (Campy 11sp EPS-equipped)


----------



## Swen6

Two points,

+ He never mentions in the auction as a Specialized Venge McClaren.

- He doesn't mention it to be a Replica.

For the money it would be $10k upwards if it was genuine so that should raise suspicions.

...Just my 2 pence worth.


----------



## Rainerhq

Can someone please help me. I owned FM028 and want to buy new bike, but I do not know what was the reach of my 54cm frame.
Reach and stack calculator is not helping because I do not know the lenght of fork.
Reach of 54cm FM028 please.
Thanks.

EDIT: found fork lenght from web and calculated 380,55


----------



## SL06

Rainerhq said:


> Can someone please help me. I owned FM028 and want to buy new bike, but I do not know what was the reach of my 54cm frame.
> Reach and stack calculator is not helping because I do not know the lenght of fork.
> Reach of 54cm FM028 please.
> Thanks.
> 
> EDIT: found fork lenght from web and calculated 380,55



Hi, I am surprise that no one have answer this. The simplest way to find the stack and the reach is to measure it. Cervelo have good information on their web site about this and own to size bike Bike Geometry, Sizing and Fit - Cervélo

But first question first, make sure that you are position correctly on your actual bike and do the necessary correction on your next order. Reach and horizontal tube length are more important than the stack. Look also at the height of the head tube for a more relax or more aggressive position....

Good luck with your purchase.


----------



## SL06

kip.duff said:


> My original diagnosis is correct- the internal conduit for the rear deraileur control cable has failed inside the frame of my FM039 causing failure of shift control. I know this because I ran an full-length outer cable housing secured with zip-ties between the Dura Ace 9-speed brake lever/shifter and the Dura Ace rear deraileur using the same inner cable, and the shifting is perfect.
> 
> As stated earlier, I want to glue some cable housing brackets at top of downtube and rear of chainstay so I can run a standard, non-internal shifter cable setup with exposed cable between the brackets and a teflon guide shield on bottom of BB.
> 
> I'm also gonna research with Hong Fu if there is some sort of warranty for this issue at such low mileage.
> 
> I'm also gonna check into Vee's idea as a solution.
> 
> One of the reasons that we (I at any rate) like this bikes is that they are beautiful machines with trick features (like internal cable routing). Right now it has shifter setup of least expensive bikes on market, and looks Mickey Mouse.


Most of these carbon frame have for internal cable routing an entry port on the main tube, a cable guide at the bottom bracket and an exit port and no internal conduit. They come with tubing (plastic line) to facilitate the assembly but you can remove them. Cable run free inside the frame but should not touch anything except the cable port and the guide. You absolutely need to use cable outer ends with tong to at the entry or exit port or shifting will be poor and deteriorate with time. see the picture. If not, the cable will notch the aluminium port. Because of the cable bend at the port, they might have to be change on a regular basis.







Personally, I like to cross the front and rear derailleur cable inside the down tube - the rear cable enter the frame at the left port and the front at the right. This reduce the angle of the cable entry in the frame and the friction. You have to make shure that the cable angle are fine at the bottom bracket guide to do that.


Your frame might be different since you mention internal conduit. I just want to be shure that you did not confuse with the plastic tubing that are use to guide the cable during the assembly but that are not necessary after.


----------



## li_bassman

*Race/Climbing Frame Recomendations*

I can use some advice

I am looking for a road race geometry frame that is a climbing bike. Power/Stiffness and reasonable compliance are important. I'm a 47yo who trains w a coach and is improving (A- times now). I am about 185 w 30 inch inseam. 

I am confused in which frame to get and it was not clear from all the different posts. I saw a fm011 which mirrors the R5 but did not see a strong buy recommendation. 

I am looking for good quality and proven history with where I am getting the frame and wheels from. 

Some history - I built a FS Mtb from Peter of xmcarbon. Transaction was great but I had to tweak the frame to get it in top shape. I would deal w Peter again in a second as he was very responsive. 

Thanks in advance!
Doug


----------



## SL06

li_bassman said:


> I can use some advice
> 
> I am looking for a road race geometry frame that is a climbing bike. Power/Stiffness and reasonable compliance are important. I'm a 47yo who trains w a coach and is improving (A- times now). I am about 185 w 30 inch inseam.
> 
> I am confused in which frame to get and it was not clear from all the different posts. I saw a fm011 which mirrors the R5 but did not see a strong buy recommendation.
> 
> I am looking for good quality and proven history with where I am getting the frame and wheels from.
> 
> Some history - I built a FS Mtb from Peter of xmcarbon. Transaction was great but I had to tweak the frame to get it in top shape. I would deal w Peter again in a second as he was very responsive.
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> Doug



Hi, I did over 3500 km on my new MC296 from Miracle bike and I am very satisfy. This frame is quite light and feel efficient when climbing. The handling at the front is very good, not twitchy , not slow, just wright. The back lack a bit of compliance (suspension, but my 25c tire inflated a 100 lbs, make it perfect. Note than I weight 156 lbs, and I am 57 years old. I do mainly club tour 30 km/h cruising speed, 80 -150 km distance.... 

According to Jenny at Miracle , the frame is T800 full carbon. A size 53cm frame weight about 887g, fork 353g. HongFu have also a FM296 frame but I believe that the carbon is a mixture of T700 and T800 carbon. Its slightly heavier, but cheaper.

There is 2 minors problem that I have with that frame. 1. The seatpost was loose in the frame and had to be shim to fit correctly. 2. The front derailleur cavity in the frame does not go low enough. My front derailleur (campy Chorus) have to sit about 3mm above my compact crankset to not touch the frame. It still shift very well at that position. It would not be an issue with a mid compact crank. This problem might also be specific to the size of the frame because of the different mold.

I have setup my handlebar to be in a more relax position but their is plenty of room to go more aggressive , more aero - see picture.

My complete bike weight aprox. around 15.5 lbs (good estimated but not weighted) with the carbon wheel, 16 lbs with alu wheel. (Campy chorus 2011). 

Yes I would buy again the same frame. Also, Jenny at Miracle was very professional and easy to deal with..

I have bough my carbon wheel from Farsport. The company have good (not perfect) reputation - search forum. They have probably close to 8 -10000 km on them and i am very happy. There is no long descent in my area. I would also look a Yishun wheel. Be careful choosing your carbon wheels if you do long descent with a lot of braking.... 

Good luck with your purchase!


----------



## RafaelS

li_bassman said:


> I can use some advice
> 
> I am looking for a road race geometry frame that is a climbing bike. Power/Stiffness and reasonable compliance are important. I'm a 47yo who trains w a coach and is improving (A- times now). I am about 185 w 30 inch inseam.
> 
> I am confused in which frame to get and it was not clear from all the different posts. I saw a fm011 which mirrors the R5 but did not see a strong buy recommendation.
> 
> I am looking for good quality and proven history with where I am getting the frame and wheels from.
> 
> Some history - I built a FS Mtb from Peter of xmcarbon. Transaction was great but I had to tweak the frame to get it in top shape. I would deal w Peter again in a second as he was very responsive.
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> Doug


 Not sure if my advice is worth much as I am just getting my first road bike after many many years of not owning anything so I may not know a lot about the frames or sellers. But I did do a ton of research before making a purchase. I was also looking to buy Cervelo S5 bike and even found an original for around 2k online just with cheap parts. I finally decided to go with a chinese replica and went onto Alibaba, Aliexpress and finally DHGate. Read many reviews online and can tell you that you will find negative reviews and positive ones for just about every seller. The one i found with most good reviews and most vidoes of satisfied customers with bikes on youtube was chinesswalton. I spoke with many of these sellers on their chat before purchasing. I also found the Walton was most reasonable and fair. I am a heavier guy and at the time couldnt check my weight and told them all i might be a bit over 100kg which you know is a lot for a carbon frame. He is the only one that from the start told me the bikes are rated to about 100kg and that if i am over I should look for a better (original) frame. When I said I can buy the groupset from Merlin Cycles for less he fairly told me he cannot match the price and i should buy from them. Other sellers were telling me anything I wanted to hear just to buy from them, including that their frames can support 300kg and only their parts are good material. Walton also always replied quickly and even the emails were answered each day. I finally made the purchase last week and still he replies all my emails without any issues. I had a lot of questions and concerns and this guy was very patient with me and answered everything fairly. He threw in free bottle holders, spacers and some brackets for me. The only issue I had after the purchase is the auction and our conversation were about a 1k frame but after i asked him post purchase what it is he said its a T800 frame. I said we agreed to T1000 and he said no problem he can arrange that but will need to wait 20 days for shipment vs regular 10. I believe that is the reason some people complain that he ships late. They may not keep the T1000 material in stock but I have not asked. You will see reviews saying he ships late but joshan1468 (or something like that) is much better, these are the same seller in reality. Also that he keeps changing his names, well he has been around for years on DHGate and has the most sales of anyone i see. Also one thing i like about DHGate is that the sellers do not get their money untill the item arrives at your door and you confirm everything is OK! DHGate holds on to the money untill that moment. I finally decided to go with a Specialized Venge McLaren replica frame instead of the S5 after looking through many pics he sent me and others online. He can make any bike that you like. I bought my groupset through Merlin Cycles, these guys are amazing, bought tuesday night, it was wednesday past midnight in England, and today thursday it is out for delivery in NJ USA. One day delivery from England, only Merlin Cycles and UPS can do this!

P.S. I bought the Venge frame, seat, handlebar, wheels, hubs, tires from him. For wheels I believe Yoeleo is one of the best to buy from china.


----------



## JMEAX

Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport CS-306, aka Velobuild R-016 on its way. Ultegra 6800 groupset waiting. Hoepefully, I will have a built bike to share in the next couple of weeks.


----------



## Vee

JMEAX said:


> View attachment 309974
> View attachment 309975
> View attachment 309976
> View attachment 309977
> Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport CS-306, aka Velobuild R-016 on its way. Ultegra 6800 groupset waiting. Hoepefully, I will have a built bike to share in the next couple of weeks.


Nice looking paint scheme. Very different than anything I have seen lately. Well done. Please be sure to post up shots once it is built.


----------



## RafaelS

Sorry removing my setup.


----------



## Babe Ruthless

*Dengfu FM208*

This is my Dengfu FM208. Custom paint job done locally. Much better than my previous aluminium bike, but that's because the geometry's a better fit for me.









I had a mishap with the bike right after taking this photo in november (bike fell on that rock there - pics here, here and here) but after a small repair paint touch-up it's all good now.

I've been riding the bike for a while so it's time to edit this post (it's jan. 2016) and do a proper review. First the build list, with most components transferred from the barely 6 months old previous bike:

Dengfu FM208 frame & fork, size 54, BSA
Full Shimano Ultegra 6800 groupset: 50-34 compact chainset (172.5mm), 11-28 cassette, mid cage rear derailer
Shimano Ultegra cable set
Shimano Ultegra bottom bracket
Wellgo C260 flat pedals
Cane Creek series 40 headset (IS42 top, IS52-40 bottom)
Kalloy Uno 7 100mm stem
Pro Alloy spacers (30mm worth of them)
Bontrager Race X Lite (RXL) 420mm carbon handlebar
Campagnolo Vento Asymmetric G3 wheelset
Specialized Espoir Elite 25mm tyres
Schwalbe inner tubes
Token TK2341 skewers, black (carbon)
Token Arsenal Ultralite seatpost clamp
Controltech iPost carbon 27.2mm Ø / 350mm l. seatpost
Specialized Toupé Pro 143mm saddle
Sparse stem headlight
Blackburn Mars 4.0 rear lights

There's also a Garmin mount and Evoc saddle bag. Bike weights 7.8kg with everything listed (& seen in the photo), except the garmin unit. I think that's pretty good, considering the wheels aren't particularly light at 1.77kg and the frame has been painted, patched and then touched up (not a total respray but I don't know how extensive it was).

The bike is comfortable, with a geometry that's much better adapted to my lack of flexibility (higher stack) than my previous frame. It also feels very responsive.

Build quality is very good. I checked the headtube insides, everything was clean and looked well made. Everything fitted perfectly and the frame received compliments from the mechanic that built the bike. 

When riding I don't notice any undue flex (not that my weak legs would cause any) or creaking noises. I do recommend 25mm tyres, they make the bike much more comfortable than 23mm ones (admittedly I tried 23s on a very short ride and with different wheels).

Internal cables clean up the looks and should help with cable wear and tear. This is my daily commuter bike after all, so I factored this in my frame choice. The bike gets used five days a week for the 15km round trip to work, and every other day I do longer rides at night (anything from 20 to 40km). This, I suppose, is light use when compared to the racers out there, but I'm no athete, just a guy who likes bicycles and fancied something nice as a daily driver. Cheap(ish) chinese frames are a perfect fit for this IMO.

As for purchasing from Dengfu, their sales people are nice - I spoke (exchanged e-mails) with Lynne and she was great. You should probably check if the have your size and bottom bracket choice in stock though, I had to wait almost 90 days for my frame to ship because they had to order a new batch of 54s. Shipping was quick and the frame came very well packaged. Dengfu are a serious business and the only hesitation I have with them is price. They ARE more expensive than other chinese vendors but I couldn't find something like FM208 anywhere.

All in all, I'm very happy with this bike.


----------



## RafaelS

Hired an artist to paint it bubble gum blue ?  hope you get an easy fix!


----------



## Babe Ruthless

RafaelS said:


> Hired an artist to paint it bubble gum blue ?  hope you get an easy fix!


What can I say, the guy fancies himself an artist. But his work was cheaper than having the chinese do it before shipping out. 

Oh, and I call this color scheme 'girlfriend-defeating camouflage' - it's the same as my previous bike and the whole frame swap thing went unnoticed. Which is why I have to go online to fret about the chipped paintwork and possible carbon damage. As far as she's concerned it's an aluminium bike. 

About FM208, it's lightweight, looks good and the geometry fits me better. I can't comment on rigidity etc., I'm not that experienced. It's a noticeably more comfortable frame than the previous one, and I'm more than happy with that. 

Now if only it wouldn't break on me.


----------



## RafaelS

lets hope its just a paint chip, after all the LBS guys should know what they are talking about.


----------



## bvber

RafaelS said:


> Hired an artist to paint it bubble gum blue ?


Why not. 
Team Sky did.


----------



## RafaelS

Pretty sure they get their bikes that way from factory, and they are black.


----------



## jlandry

RafaelS said:


> This is my setup, hopefully will be able to build it in couple of weeks.


Pretty sure you're not allowed to post blatant counterfeit bikes on here. (Badged)


----------



## RafaelS

jlandry said:


> Pretty sure you're not allowed to post blatant counterfeit bikes on here. (Badged)


Oops I am sorry, I am pretty sure I seen them earlier in this post but maybe I am wrong. I removed the pics. Too bad we can't post them.


----------



## JMEAX

Here is the build detail -- cost & weight -- by component. Will tackle the build this weekend.

Frame/Fork $650 1383g
Headset 131g
Vinyl letters $40
Seat clamp $15 26g
Jagwire kit $15 68g
Vuelta Corsa Light $0 1510g
Schwalbe tires/tube $0 300g
FCFB Carb Handlebar $44 216g
FCFB Carb Stem $36 147g
FCFB Carb Seat $36 111g
Carb Seatpost $23 280g
Ultegra 6800 Group $519 1918g
Planet X Calipers $107 212g
Nashbar Alpe D’ Huez
Pedals $28  225g

Total $1498 6533g
(14.41lbs)


----------



## Vee

JMEAX said:


> Here is the build detail -- cost & weight -- by component. Will tackle the build this weekend.
> 
> Frame/Fork $650 1383g
> Headset 131g
> Vinyl letters $40
> Seat clamp $15 26g
> Jagwire kit $15 68g
> Vuelta Corsa Light $0 1510g
> Schwalbe tires/tube $0 300g
> FCFB Carb Handlebar $44 216g
> FCFB Carb Stem $36 147g
> FCFB Carb Seat $36 111g
> Carb Seatpost $23 280g
> Ultegra 6800 Group $519 1918g
> Planet X Calipers $107 212g
> Nashbar Alpe D’ Huez
> Pedals $28 225g
> 
> Total $1498 6533g
> (14.41lbs)


Is your total completed build actually weighed or did you simply sum all of the parts? I would be shocked if your bike came in at 14.5 lbs


----------



## tlg

JMEAX said:


> Here is the build detail -- cost & weight -- by component. Will tackle the build this weekend.
> 
> Frame/Fork $650 1383g
> Headset 131g
> Vinyl letters $40
> Seat clamp $15 26g
> Jagwire kit $15 68g
> Vuelta Corsa Light $0 1510g
> Schwalbe tires/tube $0 300g
> FCFB Carb Handlebar $44 216g
> FCFB Carb Stem $36 147g
> FCFB Carb Seat $36 111g
> Carb Seatpost $23 280g
> Ultegra 6800 Group $519 1918g
> Planet X Calipers $107 212g
> Nashbar Alpe D’ Huez
> Pedals $28 225g
> 
> Total $1498 6533g
> (14.41lbs)


You math doesn't add up. I summed your list (sans pedals) and get 6602g.
And how are you getting an Ultegra 6800 group for 1918g when the weight is 2274g? Shimano Ultegra 6800 mechanical groupset
No rim strips or bar tape?
Corsa Lites are listed at 1570g. Not 1510g. Corsa-Lite 700c Clincher Black 9/10/11 Speed - Road Wheels - Wheelset's




Vee said:


> Is your total completed build actually weighed or did you simply sum all of the parts? I would be shocked if your bike came in at 14.5 lbs


Yea me too.


----------



## RafaelS

JMEAX said:


> Here is the build detail -- cost & weight -- by component. Will tackle the build this weekend.
> 
> Frame/Fork $650 1383g
> Headset 131g
> Vinyl letters $40
> Seat clamp $15 26g
> Jagwire kit $15 68g
> Vuelta Corsa Light $0 1510g
> Schwalbe tires/tube $0 300g
> FCFB Carb Handlebar $44 216g
> FCFB Carb Stem $36 147g
> FCFB Carb Seat $36 111g
> Carb Seatpost $23 280g
> Ultegra 6800 Group $519 1918g
> Planet X Calipers $107 212g
> Nashbar Alpe D’ Huez
> Pedals $28 225g
> 
> Total $1498 6533g
> (14.41lbs)


Where did you get he 6800 for $519?  I bouh mine for $570 and thought I had a great deal.


----------



## JMEAX

tlg said:


> You math doesn't add up. I summed your list (sans pedals) and get 6602g.
> And how are you getting an Ultegra 6800 group for 1918g when the weight is 2274g? Shimano Ultegra 6800 mechanical groupset
> No rim strips or bar tape?
> Corsa Lites are listed at 1570g. Not 1510g. Corsa-Lite 700c Clincher Black 9/10/11 Speed - Road Wheels - Wheelset's
> 
> 
> Yea me too.


Doubtless you are correct on my addition. I measured each component. Since I have yet to build the bike, I don't have a total weight. The groupset weight does not include brake calipers. I bought Planet X brakes instead and their weight is separately shown.


----------



## JMEAX

The 6800 groupset does not include brake calipers. I purchased Planet X brakes instead. With the Planet X brakes the total cost for the groupset is $626. I bought the Ultegra stuff from Merlins


----------



## JoostG

Nice paint job JMEAX of your R-016/CS-306!

Less ten 2 year ago I builded a stealth R-022 and I'm really satisfied with it. But I wanted something new:









A sub 7kg weight is possible. This is a 58cm size and with these components (including the garmin mount and Look pedals it is less than 7kg.

Yesterday I received the wheels for this build. As the frame is slightly more 'tender' I order some 38mm high tubeless carbon rims. Soon I will add some extra pics.

I already took her out for a ride: it's a beast! Some much more alive than the R-022 and no flex in the bottom bracket at all.


----------



## Vee

JoostG said:


> Nice paint job JMEAX of your R-016/CS-306!
> 
> Less ten 2 year ago I builded a stealth R-022 and I'm really satisfied with it. But I wanted something new:
> 
> View attachment 310282
> 
> 
> A sub 7kg weight is possible. This is a 58cm size and with these components (including the garmin mount and Look pedals it is less than 7kg.
> 
> Yesterday I received the wheels for this build. As the frame is slightly more 'tender' I order some 38mm high tubeless carbon rims. Soon I will add some extra pics.
> 
> I already took her out for a ride: it's a beast! Some much more alive than the R-022 and no flex in the bottom bracket at all.


Looks really nice! Do you have any larger pictures? The one posted here is a couple hundred pixels wide and makes it hard to really appreciate the bike.


----------



## JoostG

As this forum didn't wanted to upload the original pic (3.4mb, too big), I will try it another way. Hopefully this one is bigger.....


----------



## JMEAX

Looks very nice JoostG! Finished my build last night and took a 17 mile ride at lunch, I'm liking it very much so far. Here's some post ride pics --


----------



## Vee

JMEAX said:


> Looks very nice JoostG! Finished my build last night and took a 17 mile ride at lunch, I'm liking it very much so far. Here's some post ride pics --
> View attachment 310291
> View attachment 310292
> View attachment 310293
> View attachment 310294
> View attachment 310295
> View attachment 310296
> View attachment 310297


Nice work. Did you have a chance to weight as built?


----------



## JMEAX

I don't have anything at home to allow me to accurately weigh the bike. I will get it weighed at my local guy when I have some time this weekend. One thing I can say with confidence after my ride -- its a big improvement in the climbing department.


----------



## Vee

*Chinese Bikes*

Many of you might remember me from many years ago. I built an FM015 and an FM018 in 2011. Both bikes are still going strong, and I will list an updated build list for each and some pictures and mileages below. In addition, I've also recently ordered a handful of bikes from China for relatives and friends. Most of the builds I have done lately and will be doing in the future are budget builds, but I think you all will still enjoy them. Check them out below...

*Vee's FM015*
Built: August 2011
Odometer: Over 15,000 miles + 2 major crashes








More Photos: https://goo.gl/photos/jmCTzfwM9rYAjanRA

Build List: 


Code:


Frame: 		55cm FM015 Frame and Fork (from Carbonzone)	
Headset: 	Neco Headset, Truly Custom Carbon Top Cap
Spacers:	M Part Splined Alloy (1x 5mm over stem)
Stem: 		Pro PLT Alloy 110mm x 10degree
Handlebars: 	FSA Wing Pro Compact
Bar Tape:	Fizik Performance Soft Touch
Seatmast:	Tune Cappy 38.35mm w/ Aluminum Flashing Shim
Saddle:		115g eBay Carbon Saddle
Wheels:		Reynolds Assault Clinchers
Rim Tape:	Veloplugs
Pads:		Reynolds Blue Carbon
Skewers:	42g eBay Ti/Carbon
Shifters:	Sram Red 2011
Brakes:		Sram Red 2011
Crankset:	Sram Red 2011 BB30 53/39
Bottom Bracket:	Sram BB30 Bearings
RD		Sram Red 2011
Cassette	Sram Red 2012 11-26
FD:		Dura Ace 7900
FD Clamp:	Parlee Carbon Braze-on Clamp 34.9mm
Chain Catcher:	Speedpark Braze On (K-Edge Copy)
Chain:		KMC SL 10	
Tires:		Continental 4000s 23mm
Tubes:		Continental Light 60mm
Bottle Cages:	eBay Carbon Cages (20g per)
Pedals:		Garmin Vector
Computer:	Edge 810
Computer Mount:	K-Edge XL Computer + GoPro Mount

Total Weight: 	~ 7kg/15.43lbs


*Vee's FM018*
Built: November 2011
Odometer: Around 2,000 miles + 1 crash








More Photos: https://goo.gl/photos/wTAQrZiJQbD352RU6

Build List: 


Code:


Frame: 		51cm FM018 Frame, Fork, and Seatpost (from DengFu)	
Headset: 	Neco Headset and Top Cap
Spacers:	M Part Splined Alloy (4x 5mm over stem for adjustability)
Stem: 		Deda Zero 1 80mm x 6degree
Handlebars: 	Chinese TT Bars
Bar Tape:	Fizik Microtex
Saddle:		Fizik Ares
Wheels:		Chinese 88mm Carbon Clinchers (Helin Liu)
Pads:		Reynolds Blue Carbon
Skewers:	Reynolds Alloy
Shifters:	Sram TT500
Brakes:		Sram Force (F)  Tektro side-pull (R)
Crankset:	Sram Rival w/ Sram TT 54/42t chainrings
Bottom Bracket:	Sram GXP Team
RD		Sram Force
Cassette	Sram 1070 11-23
FD:		Sram Force
Chain Catcher:	Speedpark Braze On (K-Edge Copy)
Chain:		KMC DX 10	
Tires:		Continental 4000s 23mm
Tubes:		Vredestein 80mm
Bottle Cages:	Specialized Aero Cage and Bottle
Pedals:		Look Keo Blade
Computer:	Edge 810
Computer Mount:	Custom Carbon

Total Weight: 	~ 8kg/17.80lbs


*TJN's WCB-R-066*
Built: October 2015
Odometer: Around 500 miles








More Photos: https://goo.gl/photos/mwo51BMiKSp7PhxGA

Build List: 


Code:


Frame: 		51cm WCB-R-066 Frame, Fork, and Seatpost (from Workswell)	
Headset: 	Unbranded Headset and Top Cap
Spacers:	Generic Alloy Spacers (1x 5mm over stem)
Stem: 		Deda Zero 100 110mm x 8degree
Handlebars: 	Deda Zero 100 44cm 
Bar Tape:	Fizik Performance
Saddle:		Specialized Toupe Roubaix 143
Wheels:		Shimano RS010
Skewers:	Shimano Alloy
Shifters:	Sram Apex 2015 10 speed
Brakes:		Sram Apex 2015
Crankset:	Sram Apex 53/39 GXP 2015
Bottom Bracket:	BBRight 24mm/22mm Bottom Bracket
RD		Sram Apex 2015
Cassette	Sram Apex 2015 11/23
FD:		Sram Apex 2015
Chain:		Sram Apex 2015
Tires:		Continental 4000s II 25mm
Bottle Cages:	Chinese Carbon Cages (20g each)
Pedals:		Exustar PR100

Total Weight: 	~ 7.94kg/17.51lbs


*CVM's WCB-R-066*
Built: September 2015
Odometer: Around 1,000 miles








More Photos: https://goo.gl/photos/mwo51BMiKSp7PhxGA

Build List: 


Code:


Frame: 		54cm WCB-R-066 Frame, Fork, and Seatpost (from Workswell)	
Headset: 	Unbranded Headset and Top Cap
Spacers:	Generic Alloy Spacers (4x 5mm under stem, 1x 5mm over stem)
Stem: 		FSA OS190 110mm x 6 degree
Handlebars: 	Tommaso take-off
Bar Tape:	Sram Supertech
Saddle:		Specialized Toupe Expert 143
Wheels:		Ultegra / Open Pro
Skewers:	Shimano Ultegra
Shifters:	Shimano Tiagra 9 speed take-off
Brakes:		Tektro take-off
Crankset:	Shimano 105 50/34 11 speed
Bottom Bracket:	BBRight 24mm Bottom Bracket
RD		Shimano 105 take-off
Cassette	Sram 9 speed take-off
FD:		Shimano 105 11 speed
Chain:		Sram 1031 10 speed
Tires:		Continental Gatorskin Hardshell 25mm
Bottle Cages:	Generic Alloy
Pedals:		Look Keo Blade
Computer:	Edge 500

Total Weight: 	~ 8.5kg/18.73lbs

I also have two more bikes coming very soon, an R-028 (Dogma 65.1 clone) with custom paint and another WCB-R-066 with paint scheme similar to my FM018 found above. Both bikes should share nearly identical build lists matching the TJN build above. Will post up more when it is available.

Hope everyone enjoys!


----------



## RichBenn

My wife's CR1 Contessa frame is toast. Can someone point me towards a Chinese eBay or direct frame that is good for sport and long distance riding? or maybe point me too a list that equates some of the Chinese numbers to similar name brand frames? I'm kinda lost.


----------



## Jaap Telder

edit.


----------



## ridersyko

Here is my Velo Stealth, VB 027. Just started building it so its currently unfinished.
The seat will not be the final one, its just on there from my stripped donor bike.


----------



## bvber

My frame swap process initiated. 







It's FR905 from FLYXII. It has the geometry I was looking for and was on sale so I grabbed it. Shipping was surprisingly quick considering it's from China.

I'll be swapping it with my R-002 frame I bought from Zhongwei which is a good frame but I always felt that it's one size too small.

More to come...


----------



## resurtm

Hey there!

I am curious, is anyone knows what is happening with velobuild.com? Still working and selling their frames as usual?

Asking since their forum is inactive (last messages were sent an year ago), I stumble upon various technical site errors, etc.

Looking forward to buy one of their frames.

Thanks!


----------



## resurtm

ridersyko said:


> Here is my Velo Stealth, VB 027. Just started building it so its currently unfinished.
> The seat will not be the final one, its just on there from my stripped donor bike.


Looks nice! 

Could you please tell me when did you order your frame from VeloBuild.com? What was the order processing time? Shipping time?

Thanks!


----------



## ridersyko

Well Velobuild is very much still alive and they do respond to messages. My frame took 5 days to finish as I ordered Matt black. Then 24 hours to Ship from China to the UK. It then sat in customs for 4 days! Here are some more pics, I just need to fit my front derailleur and chain and I'm done.


----------



## resurtm

ridersyko said:


> Well Velobuild is very much still alive and they do respond to messages. My frame took 5 days to finish as I ordered Matt black. Then 24 hours to Ship from China to the UK. It then sat in customs for 4 days! Here are some more pics, I just need to fit my front derailleur and chain and I'm done.


Thanks! Your project looks great! 

Also what is your body height and weight? What's the frame size?

Best regards.


----------



## ridersyko

I'm around 6ft inside leg 33inches. I ride 56cm frames. SO I took a chance and ordered a 56 and its spot on for me. I like my bars low too and no issues.


----------



## Bluechip

After going through several of the Chinese sites looking for a frame, I thought I would ask here. Are there any frames similar in geometry to the Roubaix and Synapse besides the Roubaix copy. I don't really like the looks of the "zerts" inserts on that one. I'm looking to build a fairly comfortable 24hr bike so it needs a fairly tall head tube. 

I just ordered a set of Farsports rims for my first Chinese purchase. If it goes well I'll give a frame a try.


----------



## resurtm

Bluechip said:


> I'm looking to build a fairly comfortable 24hr bike so it needs a fairly tall head tube.


VB-R-027 with quite relaxed geometry looks like what you need. Check velobuild.com for it.


----------



## e-wal

24hr bike? Make sure you get a 27mm seatpost. That increases comfort because the post can bend a little bit.
And make sure the top tube is not too long. I don't know your heigth, but I am 187 cm and a top tube of 575 suits me perfect on a comfy bike. With a 110x440 handlebar

Size of the frame depends on size of the top tube, stack and reach not the seattube size anymore

I had myself measured by a pro bikefitter and now I have sort of a 'bike recepy'


----------



## resurtm

*Bike fit question*

Hello! 

Chinese carbon bike fit question here. I'm not sure what ETT do I need. Could anyone please help me a bit?

---

Not so long ago I did some body measurements for Bike Fit Calculator | Find Your Bike Size | Competitive Cyclist online frame calculator. It says I need ETT somewhere between 570—605mm and stem length from 110mm to 130mm. Here's my body data:

First measurement (did it myself):

Total Body Height: 6'4", 194cm
Inseam: 36", 92cm
Trunk: 68cm
Forearm: 36.5cm
Arm: 69.5cm
Thigh: 66cm
Lower Leg: 62cm
Sternal Notch: 164cm

Second measurement (my relative helped me):

Total Body Height: 6'4", 194cm
Inseam: 36", 92cm
Trunk: 64cm
Forearm: 40cm
Arm: 76cm
Thigh: 62cm
Lower Leg: 62cm
Sternal Notch: 161cm

---

At the moment i'm riding chromoly Surly Cross Check 2012, size 62cm, with top tube 610mm, stem 120mm, and zero-offset seatpost with saddle moved forward. I feel a bit stretched on my current touring bike and I will definitely change my stem to 100—110mm stem after this winter in new season.

I'm thinking about VeloBuild frames: VB-R-022 58cm or VB-R-027 58cm in particular. They have 570mm and 580mm ETT respectively. Wouldn't 570—580mm ETT be too short for me? Can I compensate it with longer stem? As there is no larger frame available, and 58cm is the offered maximum.

I will appreciate any opinions and advices! Thank you guys.


----------



## e-wal

Easiest way - old bike 610+100 = 710

Top tube of 580 + stem 130 = 710

As I posted before, seat tube size is not leading. 

Stack and reach is better, but this will be close


----------



## resurtm

Anyone had any experience with chinese carbon road frames from LTBIKE
I'm interested in LTK118, LTK007, and LTK115V in particular.
Any comments are welcome! Thanks.


----------



## bvber

They don't show frame geometry. How will you know which one to pick?


----------



## resurtm

bvber said:


> They don't show frame geometry. How will you know which one to pick?


I've sent them inquiry email and their manager replied me with frame geometry pictures, details, prices, etc. I'm curious about their frames' reliability, customer service, etc. I've already found interesting frame for me regarding geometry, weight and look.


----------



## ridersyko

Finished VB-R027, just needs a ride and new saddle fitting.
Spec
105 5700 shifters
105 5700 50/34t cranks
105 5700 rear derailleur
Ultegra 6700 front braze on derailleur
Ultegra 6700 front and rear callipers
Zipp service course seat post
Zipp service course stem
Cube shallow drops 42cm
Mavic Kysrium equipe wheels
Not fitted(Fizik Ardea saddle)

Pics taken with a crappy phone cam, sorry about that.

Gears need fine tuning a bit more but hey, its a while till summer.


----------



## sokre

Guys, anyone tried 28c 4000 s2 Continental tires on workswell/other frames?
These tires are wide! 31mm by my measure.
Was planing on using them on my current bike, but being too big, I ll guess I ll have to buy new frame 

Any news on fm066 disc frame?


----------



## bvber

I was excited to get my new FR905 frame from FLYXII up and running but it hit a snag today. :mad2:

The fork is too short by about 1/4". That's 25mm tire and it rubs against the underside of arch.








Has anyone dealt with such problem or know of a way to compensate? Or is fork replacement the only option?


----------



## robt57

How is a 23mm even going to fit that? Did you inquire with the seller as to the max tire size which could fit?




bvber said:


> I was excited to get my new FR905 frame from FLYXII up and running but it hit a snag today. :mad2:
> 
> The fork is too short by about 1/4". That's 25mm tire and it rubs against the underside of arch.
> View attachment 310843
> 
> 
> Has anyone dealt with such problem or know of a way to compensate? Or is fork replacement the only option?


----------



## robt57

How is a 23mm even going to fit that? Did you inquire with the seller as to the max tire size which could fit?

Is a 23mm tire going to fit with out hitting the caliper???




bvber said:


> I was excited to get my new FR905 frame from FLYXII up and running but it hit a snag today. :mad2:
> 
> The fork is too short by about 1/4". That's 25mm tire and it rubs against the underside of arch.
> View attachment 310843
> 
> 
> Has anyone dealt with such problem or know of a way to compensate? Or is fork replacement the only option?


----------



## bvber

robt57 said:


> How is a 23mm even going to fit that? Did you inquire with the seller as to the max tire size which could fit?
> 
> Is a 23mm tire going to fit with out hitting the caliper???


Sorry, it was a typo on my part. That tire shown in picture is 28mm. I can swap it out with 25 or 23mm tire and see what happens. 

I've bought 4 carbon forks in last 4 years and never had such tight tolerance. All previous forks have at least about 1/4' clearance for 28mm.


----------



## Bluechip

I wouldn't expect a 28 to fit on a "race geometry" type bike. Some 25's can be tough on some frames depending on rim width. What rim was that tire on?


----------



## bvber

Mavic Aksium clincher wheel, 24mm deep rim (I think 19mm wide).


----------



## DreamReaped

I have recently received my CX-002 or (FR-602?) from Velobuild. Took about 2 months because they did not have my size and finish.

It arrived in this box and I was quite worried because there was a large dent in it.








Inside it looked like this









Everything came in the box including the stem and headset so at least no more waiting 









Everything seemed packed really well.

Then I uncovered these scratches on the chainstay... 









It was only in the finish and not in the carbon or any structural damage but what should I do. I don't think it is worth it to send back but does anyone have any experience as in to what I should do?


----------



## bvber

Bluechip said:


> I wouldn't expect a 28 to fit on a "race geometry" type bike. Some 25's can be tough on some frames depending on rim width. What rim was that tire on?


Solved the problem with 23mm tire. Looks like this frame only accepts up to 25mm tires.










Solve one problem and another one pops up. :mad2:
The cable ferrules I have fit all the grommets but one seems like little too big (last picture). The ferrule won't stay, if falls through.




















Are there ferrules with larger lip or are these grommets on the frame removable? Feels like they are in solid.


----------



## robt57

Run full housing...


----------



## bvber

Thanks.


----------



## ridersyko

DreamReaped said:


> I have recently received my CX-002 or (FR-602?) from Velobuild. Took about 2 months because they did not have my size and finish.
> 
> It arrived in this box and I was quite worried because there was a large dent in it.
> 
> Inside it looked like this
> 
> 
> 
> Everything came in the box including the stem and headset so at least no more waiting
> 
> 
> 
> Everything seemed packed really well.
> 
> Then I uncovered these scratches on the chainstay...
> 
> 
> 
> It was only in the finish and not in the carbon or any structural damage but what should I do. I don't think it is worth it to send back but does anyone have any experience as in to what I should do?


My Velobuild bike arrived in pretty much the same packaging, rather up setting to see it arrive this way from halfway across the world. I think some polystyrene wouldn't go amiss...

As they fully wrap it, unsure how those scratches appeared? Makes you wonder what courier companies do? You could use some epoxy with black nail varnish to finish.


----------



## bvber

Picture taken just before the first test ride. Steer tube length still in the works.









It rides nicely and seems little bit smoother than my R-002 frame.


----------



## Bridgey

Conti GP4000 23mm are really 24mm. 
could try a washer of sorts to put on your cable, or use something like a SRAM derailleur or brake cable holder to put in first and then put in your cable. Should stop it going through. Just an idea.


----------



## bvber

Bridgey said:


> could try a washer of sorts to put on your cable, or use something like a SRAM derailleur or brake cable holder to put in first and then put in your cable. Should stop it going through. Just an idea.


Thanks but the funny thing happened. When I tried to put cable housing all the way in, something stopped it from going any further than an inch. It turns out that the portion of grommet that catches the bottom of ferrule is set in little deeper than other grommets on this frame (QC issue maybe?). So I used ferrule without the lip which allows it to go in little further and it works fine now.


----------



## CabDoctor

Just pulled the trigger on an FM-186. I will be writing a detailed report of my build and the ride quality. I race(a lot) so it will be from that viewpoint. 

View attachment 310932


----------



## resurtm

Hello!

Anyone here with LTK118 (LTBIKE) or VB-R-077 (Products | VeloBuild | Ride Fast & Keep Money In Your Pocket) frames? (Both frames are the same actually.) I wonder what's the maximum tire and maximum rim width compatibility? Not sure what rim/tire combination I have to order: 23mm tires *AND* 23mm rims *OR* 25mm tires *AND* 25mm rims.

The latter is better for me, since I'm 195lbs/6'4".

Cheers.


----------



## resurtm

Also I'm interested in Yoeleo wheels' carbon braking surface reviews. Anyone has opinion on them? I'm planning to descent on road with 10—15% gradient, including rainy weather and wet conditions. Would they work? Should I start searching for the rims with alloy braking surface?

I appreciate any advices and help!


----------



## bvber

resurtm said:


> Also I'm interested in Yoeleo wheels' carbon braking surface reviews. Anyone has opinion on them?


I tried a search on "Yoeleo" and got these results.



> I'm planning to descent on road with 10—15% gradient, including *rainy weather and wet conditions*. Would they work? Should I start searching for the rims with alloy braking surface?


Disc brake may be the answer.


----------



## DreamReaped

ridersyko said:


> My Velobuild bike arrived in pretty much the same packaging, rather up setting to see it arrive this way from halfway across the world. I think some polystyrene wouldn't go amiss...
> 
> As they fully wrap it, unsure how those scratches appeared? Makes you wonder what courier companies do? You could use some epoxy with black nail varnish to finish.


Yeah I'm not sure what happened either. I read somewhere that velobuild used to use polystyrene cutout blocks to put the frame in but it seems that is not the case anymore. Chris was very nice and refunded me the money I paid for the finish and I guess I'm going to touch it up with some nail lacquer.


----------



## resurtm

bvber said:


> I tried a search on "Yoeleo" and got these results.


Uhm, thanks, but that page says "Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms". I'll search myself alright.



bvber said:


> Disc brake may be the answer.


I've already ordered the frame with rim brakes. Also I didn't manage to find a decent frame with disc brakes (ETT 590 or so, sub 1000g weight), so I decided to go with rim brakes.

Another way to go is alloy braking surface with carbon rims. The only downside effect is that they are on heavy side. :-\


----------



## MMsRepBike

resurtm said:


> Another way to go is alloy braking surface with carbon rims. The only downside effect is that they are on heavy side. :-\


Depends. Look at the new line of Cosine wheels from Wiggle. Their 30mm full carbon are more expensive and heavier than their 30mm alloy/carbon.


----------



## bvber

resurtm said:


> Uhm, thanks, but that page says "Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms". I'll search myself alright.


There are 5 threads on Yoeleo on wheels & tires section. Here's one of them.


----------



## jermleeds

Bluechip asks:



> After going through several of the Chinese sites looking for a frame, I thought I would ask here. Are there any frames similar in geometry to the Roubaix and Synapse besides the Roubaix copy.


The FM-029 (& FM-028) have similar geometry to a Roubaix. I bought my FM-029 specifically because it had the closest match to the geometry of a Roubaix I'd test ridden and liked. (Note: match was between two 52 cm frames, I would assume the similarities extend across the size range, but didn't specifically look at other sizes). Not surprisingly, I found the ride characteristics of the FM-029 to be quite similar to that of the Roubaix.


----------



## Bluechip

That one is a possibility. I did find one on the Workswell site that seemed about perfect but it seems to be gone now. It was a new 2016 model so maybe the decided not to produce it after all. It was WCB-R-085. If you search on it you can find it's not currently on the website.

Ok it's back now. Seriously considering this frame or a used Synapse.


----------



## gtinut

so which frame takes 25s. looking to build road bike but want at least 25s and short headtube.


----------



## Babe Ruthless

I'm using 25s with my FM208 from Dengfu.


----------



## DaveT

Just for fun....wondering if this may be the source for many cheap frames...and wheels?


----------



## ridersyko

DaveT said:


> Just for fun....wondering if this may be the source for many cheap frames...and wheels?


What on earth? HAHA, some lovely rims in that second pic...


----------



## JMEAX

Vee said:


> Nice work. Did you have a chance to weight as built?


Finally got around to weighing it. Came in at 15.41 lbs.


----------



## motty89

Viner Mitus 0.6 review - BikeRadar

This is a review of the Viner Mitus which i'm pretty sure has exactly the same frame as the fm066sl. Viner are owned by planet x who do cheap carbon frames and it has exactly the same geometry as the fm066.


----------



## Joel k

I ordered a CS-0962-SL fame from Peter from 
Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd

I had gotten a 256-SL mountain bike frame from him in the past and was very happy with it so when it came time for a road bike Peter was my first choice.

I ordered the frame (size 58), fork, and seat post (proprietary to the frame) as a package, along with a pair of 38mm rims, B6 road bars, and bottle cages. The frame and rims had to be made for my order and were shipped within a few days of when Peter said they would.

Mostly Shimano Ultegra 2x11 build, Shimano ST-RS685 shifters/brake levers and BR-RS805 brake calipers, Hope hubs, TM38C-25 tubeless ready carbon clincher rims, 25mm wide, 38mm deep, no brake track, Schwalbe Pro One 25mm tires, Ashima rotors (160 front, 140 rear).

I am very happy with the fit and finish (all UD matte) of everything I got from Peter. As I have less than 100 miles on the bike I will update when I have a more thorough review of the frame/bike.


----------



## blm

Hi guys,

Mostly here to get info. I really appreciate the time people put into transmittinting their chinese frame buying and building experience but...

Having been on the threads a few weeks (nights mostly ;-) i hardly find real ride reviews except for "stiff bottom bracket" and a few comment on handling and comfort if i'm lucky.

Since I think most people on the forum are here to get solid info before pulling the trigger It would be nice i'm sure to have some review meat around the bone.

A stiff BB is really relative at best and for some can be misleading as to the overall riding experience of a frame. PLS explain if possible: did you ride a noodle before? Are you 220lbs or 155? Do you ride 1000 miles or 4000 in a season? Are you into long rides at a steady pace? Crits? Saturday 45 mile hilly hammerfests with friends? Are you 27 or 67(even then...hehe). 

To my experience a lot goes into what i like or not about a frame. A long mountain or hilly ride can be a torture if your frame is too stiff or not enough. (older Cervelos anyone?)

I would surely be nice to read more than "I love the ride...stiff BB" 

Again thanks to all who contribute and everything is appreciated even if theres little info.


----------



## blm

Scary.


----------



## [email protected]

blm said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Mostly here to get info. I really appreciate the time people put into transmittinting their chinese frame buying and building experience but...
> 
> Having been on the threads a few weeks (nights mostly ;-) i hardly find real ride reviews except for "stiff bottom bracket" and a few comment on handling and comfort if i'm lucky.
> 
> Since I think most people on the forum are here to get solid info before pulling the trigger It would be nice i'm sure to have some review meat around the bone.
> ....



I have an R-055 from Velobuild. Ridden it for almost 10.000km last year.

Thing I like:
- Really stiff
- Fits me perfectly
- Aero (despite the disc brakes)
- Fast as f*ck 

Things I don't like:
- Not a lot of room for tires (25mm up front is max, 25mm at the back is so tight that the tire rubs when sprinting)
- Seatpost kept slipping, no solution from Chris (from Velobuild), had it fixed by a carbon repair guy
- BB wasn't clean, had the threads cleaned by LBS
- Really harsh ride, no comfort whatsoever 

What do I compare it with:
- Orbea Onix (carbon frame, loads of comfort)
- Eddy Merckx Gara (aluminium frame, no comfort)

What do I use it for:
- Club rides (100-180km) with a 15km finale, in the finale it really shines (very good power transfer, sprints up to 60kph this year, on the flat by the water)
- Gran fondos (no real mountains last year) and steady rides, largest being 256km (no problems what-so-ever, despite the frame not giving any from of comfort, no pains anywhere), mostly in the Ardennens (Belgium)
- The occasional fast ride on the racing circuit of Zolder (no problem holding on to the groups that ride around at 50kph)

I would not deal with Velobuild again, but a Chinese frame would still be on the shortlist for the next project :thumbsup:

Want to know anything else?

My bike:


----------



## [email protected]

Joel k said:


> I ordered a CS-0962-SL fame from Peter from
> Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd
> 
> I had gotten a 256-SL mountain bike frame from him in the past and was very happy with it so when it came time for a road bike Peter was my first choice.
> 
> I ordered the frame (size 58), fork, and seat post (proprietary to the frame) as a package, along with a pair of 38mm rims, B6 road bars, and bottle cages. The frame and rims had to be made for my order and were shipped within a few days of when Peter said they would.
> 
> Mostly Shimano Ultegra 2x11 build, Shimano ST-RS685 shifters/brake levers and BR-RS805 brake calipers, Hope hubs, TM38C-25 tubeless ready carbon clincher rims, 25mm wide, 38mm deep, no brake track, Schwalbe Pro One 25mm tires, Ashima rotors (160 front, 140 rear).
> 
> I am very happy with the fit and finish (all UD matte) of everything I got from Peter. As I have less than 100 miles on the bike I will update when I have a more thorough review of the frame/bike.



Really lilke the looks of the frame.
Had any problems building it up?
How much did you pay for the frame?

Can you share some more pic's (in detail if its possible)

Thanks.


----------



## Joel k

[email protected] said:


> Really lilke the looks of the frame.
> Had any problems building it up?
> How much did you pay for the frame?
> 
> Can you share some more pic's (in detail if its possible)
> 
> Thanks.


It built up very easily other than one problem. When the frame was ordered it was supposed to be a 15mm front axle, but when Peter received it, the fork was for a 12mm axle (as will be the case from now on with the 092). I had to get 12mm endcaps for my hubs, and had a machinist friend make me a temporary front axle out of a spare 12mm rear axle I had in the parts box. The correct axle is currently in the mail right now.

The frame, fork, and proprietary d shaped seatpost was right around $600.

I will take some more pictures next time I am out, what would you like?

The pictures here CS-092-SL 2016 road disc thru axle frameset front 100*12/rear 142*12mm axle - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd are of my frame as it was the first CS-092-SL Peter got.


----------



## [email protected]

Thanks :thumbsup:

If it's possible, i'd like pics from the cable routing and both brakes (and mounts)


----------



## blm

To [email protected] : well that sir is a very detailed review. Sweet looking ride! thanks, and btw 60kmh sprints is erring on the side of very serious.

Tire clearance is indeed a concern, I mostly ride 25mm Corsas either tubular or clinchers, these are quite fat. Makes you wonder what they think about when they add disk bosses to a frame.

I shall keep reading.


----------



## [email protected]

blm said:


> To [email protected] : well that sir is a very detailed review. Sweet looking ride! thanks, and btw 60kmh sprints is erring on the side of very serious.
> 
> Tire clearance is indeed a concern, I mostly ride 25mm Corsas either tubular or clinchers, these are quite fat. Makes you wonder what they think about when they add disk bosses to a frame.
> 
> I shall keep reading.


I always ride Conti GP4000SII, they fall a little big as well (the 23mm are almost 25mm when mounted on the rim)


----------



## Joel k

[email protected] said:


> Thanks :thumbsup:
> 
> If it's possible, i'd like pics from the cable routing and both brakes (and mounts)


Here you go. Front derailleur cable on the left side of the frame, rear derailleur (top) and rear brake hose (bottom) on right. Shimano direct mount calipers, 160mm front rotor, 140mm rear rotor, the frame can use 140 or 160 rotors front and rear.


----------



## [email protected]

Very nice.

Thanks.


----------



## ridersyko

blm said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Mostly here to get info. I really appreciate the time people put into transmittinting their chinese frame buying and building experience but...
> 
> Having been on the threads a few weeks (nights mostly ;-) i hardly find real ride reviews except for "stiff bottom bracket" and a few comment on handling and comfort if i'm lucky.
> 
> Since I think most people on the forum are here to get solid info before pulling the trigger It would be nice i'm sure to have some review meat around the bone.
> 
> A stiff BB is really relative at best and for some can be misleading as to the overall riding experience of a frame. PLS explain if possible: did you ride a noodle before? Are you 220lbs or 155? Do you ride 1000 miles or 4000 in a season? Are you into long rides at a steady pace? Crits? Saturday 45 mile hilly hammerfests with friends? Are you 27 or 67(even then...hehe).
> 
> To my experience a lot goes into what i like or not about a frame. A long mountain or hilly ride can be a torture if your frame is too stiff or not enough. (older Cervelos anyone?)
> 
> I would surely be nice to read more than "I love the ride...stiff BB"
> 
> Again thanks to all who contribute and everything is appreciated even if theres little info.


Hi,

Well 've put in over 20k miles on road bikes these have all been aluminium. I have never had an issue with it but always fancied carbon at some point. So I thought I would take the plunge, but if I was to go carbon, I had to build the thing myself. 

The research started and with pretty much every seller there are positives and negatives. I went with Velobuild, cannot say whether I’d do it again with them or with someone else, I haven’t had a bad experience apart from the import charges from customs and a delay.

Building the bike was straight forward everything went where it should, the internal cabling on my particular model VB r027 is a doddle, cable goes in & cable comes straight out. Bottom bracket is fine, I'm running hollowtech II 68mm, english thread.

With it being winter my usage of the bike has been restricted, I cycle 6k miles a year so my main commuter bike is getting a lot of work right now. Anyway I've managed to inbetween the rain get 60 miles in on my Velo (VBR027) So far no cracks, weird noises or any misgivings. The bike feels stiff, sold, competent and well built along with being very light, this makes setting off easier and climbing, from what little hills I’ve climbed. I have more testing to do and more miles to put on but hopefully in the new year a can do a long ride test.

The only negative points so far is little room for larger tyres, I’m running Schwalbe 25mm and they look like the maximum clearance, sometimes in the rear drop out if not tightening the skewer the rear wheel will point left, this could be my wheels though.

Anyway im enjoying the whole process, and I manage to commute in to work this morning on it as the sun is out! Here is a pic.

PS sorry this isn't a long term review, I jut need road miles.
Oh and I'm 12 stone is that 160 /lb? and 6ft, the bike is 56cm.


----------



## Potomuchto

I am considering new handelbar. I am not sure if fake 3T on ebay is a good idea.
Also I looked at Velobuild, Aliexpress, Fluxii, and they do not have drop/reach measurements there. 
Do you know a reliable source?


----------



## blm

Thanks ridersyko, I appreciate the détails. Looks very clean. The rear Wheel problem might come from frame alignment? Hope not. I ran contis before but never in 25.

So far i'm looking at fr029 and 066sl but reviews are a bit better for the 029, and it comes with a real BSA bb instead of BB right with an adapter, less potential for trouble and easy maintenance/installation.


----------



## blm

The more you read the more it gets complicated. Seems that FM028 no longer exists in my size and is replaced by FM029, not much into this internal routing gig, we'll see. 

Also I have made some inquiries and Miracle is trying to convince me that FM029 is MC008 for them, they look alike but different geometry and cable wholes are different, anyone has correct info?

And if someone has an FM021 from Dengfu please let me know.

I've made several searches on this forum and others, no info on FM021. Seems to be between FM029 and FM066 in term of weight and different geo but how does it compare on the road?


----------



## resurtm

Ok, I have received my LongTeng LTK118 frame today. 
It's BSA, matt, black, without painting, XL/59cm.

Frame is: 907g
Seatpost: 177g
Fork: 330g

https://storage3.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0104/h_1451884085_5155356_c6ae8a10fb.jpg
https://storage2.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0104/h_1451884058_6600103_06efd8efc4.jpg
https://storage1.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0104/h_1451884057_9058644_5e83783011.jpg
https://storage9.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0104/h_1451884026_4836904_885cca2c05.jpg
https://storage7.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0104/h_1451883979_4721512_f72fda8c11.jpg
https://storage5.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0104/h_1451883977_2369487_4ec0daf36c.jpg
https://storage4.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0104/h_1451883957_3799383_9f8ae83e51.jpg
https://storage3.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0104/h_1451883857_4007296_ea058f2112.jpg
https://storage2.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0104/h_1451883852_1914632_4fadb904e7.jpg
https://storage1.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0104/h_1451883846_8686761_6fa2b8b3a4.jpg
https://storage9.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0104/h_1451883721_2104229_cddfcb6e0c.jpg
https://storage8.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0104/h_1451883720_3263596_92baba6514.jpg
https://storage7.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0104/h_1451883704_6346416_cefc13ed1b.jpg

Feel free to ask additional questions or requests new photos. ;-)
I could say I'm very happy so far. No issues, no problems, everything seems to be fine.


----------



## Vee

resurtm said:


> Ok, I have received my LongTeng LTK118 frame today.
> It's BSA, matt, black, without painting, XL/59cm.
> 
> Frame is: 907g
> Seatpost: 177g
> Fork: 330g
> 
> https://storage3.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0104/h_1451884085_5155356_c6ae8a10fb.jpg
> https://storage2.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0104/h_1451884058_6600103_06efd8efc4.jpg
> https://storage1.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0104/h_1451884057_9058644_5e83783011.jpg
> https://storage9.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0104/h_1451884026_4836904_885cca2c05.jpg
> https://storage7.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0104/h_1451883979_4721512_f72fda8c11.jpg
> https://storage5.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0104/h_1451883977_2369487_4ec0daf36c.jpg
> https://storage4.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0104/h_1451883957_3799383_9f8ae83e51.jpg
> https://storage3.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0104/h_1451883857_4007296_ea058f2112.jpg
> https://storage2.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0104/h_1451883852_1914632_4fadb904e7.jpg
> https://storage1.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0104/h_1451883846_8686761_6fa2b8b3a4.jpg
> https://storage9.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0104/h_1451883721_2104229_cddfcb6e0c.jpg
> https://storage8.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0104/h_1451883720_3263596_92baba6514.jpg
> https://storage7.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0104/h_1451883704_6346416_cefc13ed1b.jpg
> 
> Feel free to ask additional questions or requests new photos. ;-)
> I could say I'm very happy so far. No issues, no problems, everything seems to be fine.


Congrats. What did they charge you?


----------



## resurtm

Vee said:


> Congrats. What did they charge you?


Thanks!

635 USD total. I believe shipping was 120 USD.
I also ordered Neco headset and spare derailleur hanger.


----------



## bvber

resurtm said:


> 635 USD total.


That's little bit higher than usual, IMO.


----------



## resurtm

bvber said:


> That's little bit higher than usual, IMO.


I see. The reasons why I bought this particular frame but not the others are:

1. I'm 6'4" (194cm). I need ETT somewhere between 580—600. My LTK118/VB-R-077 frame in XL/59 size has 590.7mm ETT. Just what I wanted. 

2. It's very light. Frame weight is only 907g (remember it's BSA and biggest possible size!). Fork weight is only 330g. Seatpost 177g.

3. Alisa from LongTeng told me it's made of T1000 Toray carbon. I have no idea is it true or not, but I tend to believe her because it's really very light and well made (from my point of view at least).

I have compared it with Wilier GTR and Giant TCR Advanced road bike frames, and while finishing is not that good as branded frames have, but anyway it's a nice frame for the price. 

Also note I'm living in "far place in the world".  So shipping is 120 USD (expensive I know, but I had no choice).

---

I also accepted wheels yesterday. I will use these ones: wiggle.com | Pro Lite Bortola A21 Alloy Clincher Wheelset | Road Race Wheels

Wheelset is only 1533g. Not that light, but light enough for clinchers, alloy, and training wheels.

This future bike will have mechanical Shimano Ultegra 6800 2x11 groupset. No overpay for Dura Ace or Di2, it just works flawlessly, and I love its look'n'feel. 

I'll post my finished bike photos and details when it's done.


----------



## GavinR

Im looking to purchase a frame from Dengfu and going to document the whole process by video for anyone who is interested. Starting here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQkI79wdUVQ


----------



## Babe Ruthless

Well, for those looking for a more complete review I've recently edited my post here to reflect a few months' experience with my Dengfu FM208 bike. If you have any further questions or feel like I missed something important in that writeup please let me know.

Brief review summary: I highly recommend both Dengfu and the frame. (and for those who dig MTB and hybrids I also highly recommend Df's FM238)


----------



## EDirdal

Hello dear forum. I am looking for a new frame right now, and your help would be much apperciated.

I had a FM066 in 54cm, but the frame was too tall for me, and the reach was also too big for me. So I need a smaller frame, and preferably with a little bit more relaxed geometry. 

BSA would be preferable, as well as a 27,2mm seat tube, any ideas? 

Thanks!


----------



## rainxman

Are there any frames like the FM098 with disc brake mounts from a reputable seller?


----------



## CabDoctor

Anyone manufacture a seatpost that would fit a Cervelo P2c?


----------



## CabDoctor

I've been on my FM-186 for a bit over a month. Rides exceptionally well. Very stiff although the carbon bars are a bit flexy compared to my alloy PRO bars. But even then we're talking in a full on 1300w+ sprint. Very easy to string up with Di2. Now I just need to find a saddle like the one I have on there from aliexpress. I've seen the all carbon models but I would like one with a leather.


----------



## Sanders

Hi guys,

I'm looking to build a wheelset with at the core (or at the outskirts) a chinese rim from Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods
The RM88C-25mm (RM88C-25mm road bike 88mm carbon clincher rim 25mm wide - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd) to be exact.

Does anybody have experience with the fabricator or one of these rims?

I'm looking to build it up along with Hope Mono RS hubs, Sapim CX-Ray spokes and Sapim nipples on a 18f 24r spoke count.


----------



## SL06

Sanders said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm looking to build a wheelset with at the core (or at the outskirts) a chinese rim from Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods
> The RM88C-25mm (RM88C-25mm road bike 88mm carbon clincher rim 25mm wide - Xiamen Carbon Speed Sport Goods Co.,Ltd) to be exact.
> 
> Does anybody have experience with the fabricator or one of these rims?
> 
> I'm looking to build it up along with Hope Mono RS hubs, Sapim CX-Ray spokes and Sapim nipples on a 18f 24r spoke count.


You should probably post your question on this thread :
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wh...-direct-carbon-wheel-thread-3-0-a-346069.html


----------



## Sanders

Thanks, will do!

Did not realise there was a sepperate chinese thread for wheels/rims only.


----------



## Michael75455

After a lot of reading on many forums I decided to get a Chinese frame. I went with a Carbon-Speed CS-RB01+RF01 54cm BSA
http://www.xmcarbonspeed.com/Productinfo.asp?f=1391







I ordered this frameset from Peter with a single color paint job. This only took six days to complete. Peter sent pictures just before the order was packed and shipped. One week later it arrived at my door. I was very pleased with every part of the order. Peter was quick with replies and had answers to everything I asked. And the frame and parts were very well packaged.
The frame was made very well. I did not see any flaws on the surface nor inside the head tube. Plus everything I bolted to the frame was perfectly aligned. Well of course not the derailleur hanger, that is normal procedure to have to do the alignment on these.













The internal cable routing was well thought out. It was very easy to fish out the inner cable. Under the bottom bracket is an access panel that you remove. Inside there is a metal plate (on left in photo) that you pull out and this give a large opening for retrieving the cable. Other nice features on the frame include a metal plate to protect the frame in the event something gets jammed between the chainring and frame such as a rock or somehow the chain itself. Also there are bolt holes on the bottom that are in a position that appears to be for a cadence/wheel sensor. Another feature has to do with the cable stops in the frame. They are made to fit closely with the ferrules and angle the cables away from the frame so the cables do not rub through the paint or bare carbon fiber.
Painted 54cm Frame 1039g, fork 384g. Completed bike was 17.5 lbs (7.9kg) and that is with a heavy saddle (Brooks C17 404g). Front and rear wheelset with tires/tubes/cassette totals 2630g.
I do not have a lot of money to buy the lightest components but that was not the objective of the build. The goal was to make my rides more enjoyable by taking away some of the harshness of the rough roads around here. I now have 200+ miles on it and can say on each ride I am still amazed how well this frameset absorbs the rough chipseal roads. Many times I have found myself steering into the rough patches and the dips created by moles tunneling under the roads, just to feel how well the elastomer inserts and frame design work. The sharpness of the sudden jolts are completely removed. More of a bump then a painful impact.
I'm looking forward to many miles on this great bike. My goal this year is to do the circumference of the Moon (6,783.5 miles).


----------



## resurtm

I've finished my LongTeng LTK118 (same as VeloBuild VB-R-077) build. My report:


---


Current specifications:


Frame: LongTeng LTK118, XL/59, BSA, black, matt, 907g
Fork: LongTeng LTK118 FK118, black, matt, 330g


Shifters: Shimano Ultegra 6800, 2x11, 212+209g
Crankset: Shimano Ultegra 6800, 2x11, 50x34, 491+207g
Bottom bracket: Shimano Tiagra, BSA, not weighed (had some issues with bottom bracket)
Front derailleur: Shimano Ultegra 6800, 2x11, 87g
Rear derailleur: Shimano Ultegra 6800, 2x11, short cage, 198g
Cassette: Shimano Ultegra 6800, 2x11, 11-28, 247g
Cables/housing/bar ends/caps: Shimano, not weighed


Chain: Shimano Ultegra 6800, 2x11, 268g
Chain link: Sram PowerLink, 11 speed


Wheelset: ProLite Bortola A21, clinchers, 1533g (they were shipped with rim tape installed)
Quick release skewers: ProLite Bortola A21, 115g
Tires: Vittoria Rubino Pro, 700x23C, 478g (pair)
Inner tubes: Continental Race 28 Light, 158g (pair)


Handlebar: open mould, Aliexpress, 440mm, 204g
Bar tape: chinese, Aliexpress, not weighed
Stem: Ritchey Comp 4-Axis, 120mm, 8deg, 165g
Headset: Neco NHB-15, Neco NHB-6B, 120g
Headset/steerer spaces: aluminium, not weighed
Bar extender: TrustFire, Aliexpress, 80g


Seatpost: LongTeng, 177g (shipped with frame)
Seatpost clamp: Procraft Elite C, 18g
Saddle: open-mould, not sure where it is from, my acquaintance sold me it, 105g


Bottlecage holder: Bontrager, from Aliexpress, 31g (pair)
Air pump mount: Lezyne Micro Floor HPG mount, not weighed


Brakes: Shimano Ultegra 6800, 173+170g
Pedals: Shimano Ultegra 6800 SPD-SL (standard spindle/axle length), 258g
Chainstay protection: Aliexpress, not weighed


---


Heartrate monitor: Sigma PC 25.10
Bottle cages: Syntace
Saddle bag: EVOC
Air pump (high pressure): Lezyne Micro Floor HPG
Multitool: some chinese bought at Aliexpress


---


Final weight: 7920g
With all accessories mounted (heartrate monitor, air pump, empty bottles, saddle bag with heavy multitool). This is my setup for rides.


Base weight: 7280g
Without accessories, but with pedals.


---


My test ride today:


https://storage3.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0229/h_1456731938_9568711_d3b4977e39.jpg
https://www.strava.com/activities/505156598
https://www.endomondo.com/users/11948529/workouts/latest


More photos:


https://storage1.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0229/h_1456717353_9838176_f176ef9b07.jpg
https://storage9.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0229/h_1456717341_3034121_38258ac28e.jpg
https://storage8.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0229/h_1456717311_9000784_a24a9357dd.jpg
https://storage7.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0229/h_1456717284_7123490_2aaf043e8f.jpg
https://storage4.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0229/h_1456717281_7854870_43a59c841b.jpg
https://storage3.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0229/h_1456717225_5374332_ca0d6209f6.jpg
https://storage3.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0229/h_1456717225_9559481_493a16e2b4.jpg
https://storage2.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0229/h_1456717154_5061930_cfe4c4fada.jpg
https://storage2.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0229/h_1456717153_4662695_74c12b2c53.jpg


---


Feel free to ask additional questions!


----------



## Vee

resurtm said:


> I've finished my LongTeng LTK118 (same as VeloBuild VB-R-077) build. My report:
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> 
> Current specifications:
> 
> 
> Frame: LongTeng LTK118, XL/59, BSA, black, matt, 907g
> Fork: LongTeng LTK118 FK118, black, matt, 330g
> 
> 
> Shifters: Shimano Ultegra 6800, 2x11, 212+209g
> Crankset: Shimano Ultegra 6800, 2x11, 50x34, 491+207g
> Bottom bracket: Shimano Tiagra, BSA, not weighed (had some issues with bottom bracket)
> Front derailleur: Shimano Ultegra 6800, 2x11, 87g
> Rear derailleur: Shimano Ultegra 6800, 2x11, short cage, 198g
> Cassette: Shimano Ultegra 6800, 2x11, 11-28, 247g
> Cables/housing/bar ends/caps: Shimano, not weighed
> 
> 
> Chain: Shimano Ultegra 6800, 2x11, 268g
> Chain link: Sram PowerLink, 11 speed
> 
> 
> Wheelset: ProLite Bortola A21, clinchers, 1533g (they were shipped with rim tape installed)
> Quick release skewers: ProLite Bortola A21, 115g
> Tires: Vittoria Rubino Pro, 700x23C, 478g (pair)
> Inner tubes: Continental Race 28 Light, 158g (pair)
> 
> 
> Handlebar: open mould, Aliexpress, 440mm, 204g
> Bar tape: chinese, Aliexpress, not weighed
> Stem: Ritchey Comp 4-Axis, 120mm, 8deg, 165g
> Headset: Neco NHB-15, Neco NHB-6B, 120g
> Headset/steerer spaces: aluminium, not weighed
> Bar extender: TrustFire, Aliexpress, 80g
> 
> 
> Seatpost: LongTeng, 177g (shipped with frame)
> Seatpost clamp: Procraft Elite C, 18g
> Saddle: open-mould, not sure where it is from, my acquaintance sold me it, 105g
> 
> 
> Bottlecage holder: Bontrager, from Aliexpress, 31g (pair)
> Air pump mount: Lezyne Micro Floor HPG mount, not weighed
> 
> 
> Brakes: Shimano Ultegra 6800, 173+170g
> Pedals: Shimano Ultegra 6800 SPD-SL (standard spindle/axle length), 258g
> Chainstay protection: Aliexpress, not weighed
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> 
> Heartrate monitor: Sigma PC 25.10
> Bottle cages: Syntace
> Saddle bag: EVOC
> Air pump (high pressure): Lezyne Micro Floor HPG
> Multitool: some chinese bought at Aliexpress
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> 
> Final weight: 7920g
> With all accessories mounted (heartrate monitor, air pump, empty bottles, saddle bag with heavy multitool). This is my setup for rides.
> 
> 
> Base weight: 7280g
> Without accessories, but with pedals.
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> 
> My test ride today:
> 
> 
> https://storage3.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0229/h_1456731938_9568711_d3b4977e39.jpg
> https://www.strava.com/activities/505156598
> https://www.endomondo.com/users/11948529/workouts/latest
> 
> 
> More photos:
> 
> 
> https://storage1.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0229/h_1456717353_9838176_f176ef9b07.jpg
> https://storage9.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0229/h_1456717341_3034121_38258ac28e.jpg
> https://storage8.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0229/h_1456717311_9000784_a24a9357dd.jpg
> https://storage7.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0229/h_1456717284_7123490_2aaf043e8f.jpg
> https://storage4.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0229/h_1456717281_7854870_43a59c841b.jpg
> https://storage3.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0229/h_1456717225_5374332_ca0d6209f6.jpg
> https://storage3.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0229/h_1456717225_9559481_493a16e2b4.jpg
> https://storage2.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0229/h_1456717154_5061930_cfe4c4fada.jpg
> https://storage2.static.itmages.ru/i/16/0229/h_1456717153_4662695_74c12b2c53.jpg
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> 
> Feel free to ask additional questions!


Congrats on what appears to be a successful build. What is your current weight and do you find that the frame is stiff enough even though it is so light? I look forward to a future ride report from you after some additional miles.


----------



## mow4cash

I'm thinking of purchasing a Fm098 frame. I know this an older frame but has quite a few positive reviews. I'm wondering if the current Fm098 owners are still enjoying the bike now and would purchase the same frame if it was "stolen" today? I can't seem to find any feedback on the newer aero frame models. I'm looking for one without the bottom brake mount. I'm looking for something aero since I have a chinese R3 like climbing bike already?


----------



## mcian

Hi,

has anyone experience with the new R05 / R06 frame from Dengfu?
Personally i like the design of the R06.
The front of the R05 looks somewhat weird.

I am considering to buy the R06 but since some experienced problems with the first fm098 frames i am uncertain if i should wait.
Also the bottom bracket is BB86 only, which from my point of view is not very nice because i know few people with BB30 frames that have to change the bb in regular intervals.


Cheers


----------



## .je

resurtm said:


> I've finished my LongTeng LTK118 (same as VeloBuild VB-R-077) build. My report:


You've rode the bike, how is it, and how compared to other bikes you have ridden?

Opinions on its ride are from these threads, only it seems.
Experience with the Velobuild frame VB-R-077? - Weight Weenies
Experience with the Velobuild frame VB-R-077? - Weight Weenies
https://translate.googleusercontent...203088&usg=ALkJrhhg7BwemuMkTET-Q3c1h8DISt8v_A


But there isn't a lot go to on, other than it being stiff, accelerates well, and corners nice.
I wonder how it's different than an R-016, because everyone says the same things about that, but it sounds like there' very little to choose between them.


----------



## sklay

Would anyone have any advice or opinions on Dengfu's R01 bike? 

I've been doing some research on their offerings and I think I've narrowed it to either the R01 or FM208. Just unsure what the difference is besides aesthetics. Seems like similar measurements in the geometry.


----------



## mjf

Here is my Hong Fu FM-032 I just finished after sitting for over a year. Sram Force 22 11 speed and Hong Fu bars and stem. I used Light-Bicycle carbon wheels. This is my first bike with Sram and I dig it. As it sits it is a little over fifteen pounds on the trusty bathroom scale.  Tomorrow will be the first real ride of 30 miles. Around the neighborhood it feels great. I did swap out the Brooks for my Fizik saddle. The Ti Swift is a bit to narrow for my sit bones, even though I have a small ass. The seat height and bar height and angle are subject to adjustments on tomorrows ride.
I did copy the paint job, but I asked first. {Dec. 2014}


----------



## ridersyko

Hello, small 500 mile update from me and for anyone who has purchased via velobuild or thinking of buying via them. Frame is still good and holds up well, have gone over some rubbish roads and still holds up. There are unavoidable marks and scrapes here and there though.

In that 500 miles I've replaced the rear derailleur to an ultegra one and had to replace the rear wheel due to wear and tear(from my other bike). I've just put some new handlebars on too! Bike still looks new and clean, and I'm looking forward to some summer miles.

See pic.


----------



## mjb152

anyone built a di2 with hydraulic disc brakes ?
I'm looking to build one, but am wondering about shifters. At first glance it seems I can only go with Shimano R785's, think this model is about 3 years old now and quite large compared to the newer 6870 version. Apart from that, what else should I watch out for ?


----------



## Migen21

I think I read some rumors somewhere that Shimano is coming out with DuraAce hydraulics for 2017. Not sure if that includes Di2.


----------



## mjb152

Hmm. Maybe i need to rethink the di2 requirement. Wonder if SRAM will offer anything similar?


----------



## tlg

mjb152 said:


> anyone built a di2 with hydraulic disc brakes ?
> I'm looking to build one, but am wondering about shifters. At first glance it seems I can only go with Shimano R785's, think this model is about 3 years old now and quite large compared to the newer 6870 version.


I've built di2 hydraulic. There is no 6870 version levers. The only di2 levers are the R785.


----------



## sklay

EDirdal said:


> Hello dear forum. I am looking for a new frame right now, and your help would be much apperciated.
> 
> I had a FM066 in 54cm, but the frame was too tall for me, and the reach was also too big for me. So I need a smaller frame, and preferably with a little bit more relaxed geometry.
> 
> BSA would be preferable, as well as a 27,2mm seat tube, any ideas?
> 
> Thanks!


I've been researching frames as well, and as far as I can tell, most are racing geos, except for two. One is Dengfu's FM029a which is the same as their old FM028, but with internal cable routing. You can find a lot of testimonials here and on youtube of the 028. Frame seems to have a longer headtube and slacker geometry for it. Seat tube angle about the same but that can be adjusted w/ setback seat post.

The other is Hongfu's gravel bike frame, which is pretty much an endurance frame that can fit larger tires. Pretty interesting to see Hongfu get on the gravel bike trend. Haven't seen any other of the chinese manufacturers get in the field. Only cyclocross. I'd probably get one if I didn't just buy a bike...

Edit: Just to add... it seems hongfu has other relaxed geo frames for 2016, like this fm028


----------



## evilbullit

So, Im considering purchasing a China frame/fork.
However, I can't seem to find what Im looking for...

60cm-62cm, Disc Road frame with thru axles and full internal routing with Di2 option.

Any help or comments are appreciated.


----------



## [email protected]

mjb152 said:


> anyone built a di2 with hydraulic disc brakes ?
> I'm looking to build one, but am wondering about shifters. At first glance it seems I can only go with Shimano R785's, think this model is about 3 years old now and quite large compared to the newer 6870 version. Apart from that, what else should I watch out for ?


I've built up a Velobuild R-051 with the R785's, really like it.
The hoods are a little bigger, but they feel really good in the hand.

I've blacked the silver part out (with Plastidip) so they don't look as big:


----------



## asherstash1

some of you may remember this bike from here , but family emergency in Cambodia requires quick sale... being sold by faher in law in uk on ebay...

please hae a look!

many thanks ash








Carbon Road Bike Frame Full Scam Force Groupset | eBay

Rolf Prima Vigor Road Bike Wheel Set 700c | eBay


----------



## ericTheHalf

evilbullit said:


> So, Im considering purchasing a China frame/fork.
> However, I can't seem to find what Im looking for...
> 
> 60cm-62cm, Disc Road frame with thru axles and full internal routing with Di2 option.
> 
> Any help or comments are appreciated.


This might do it. Probably on the small end though. FM308_dengfubikes 11


----------



## RaptorTC

I'm set to hit 8,000 miles on my DengFu FM098 tomorrow and have had 0 problems with the frame. I would have absolutely no reservations buying from DengFu again. I also have a set of their wheels that have no issues.


----------



## Migen21

ericTheHalf said:


> This might do it. Probably on the small end though. FM308_dengfubikes 11


I'm also on the lookout for an inexpensive frame to use for gravel ( along thr lines of a norco search, ore similar style gravel bike).

45cm-46cm (tiny)
Up to 35mm tire 
disc brake
Thru-Axle


----------



## fronesis

*Anyone have info or experience with new Flyxii road frame – FR 905?*

I did a few searches, but could only find one person mentioning these new model from Flyxii. It seems to have slacker seat tube angle. 

I've already built 3 Flyxii frames, and I'm building up a rim-brake road bike for a Di2 build. My plan had been to go with the FR 322, but the appearance of this new frame has me intrigued. The Flyxii listing seems to list only the frame weight for the 905, so not quite clear how it compares to the 322. 

Does anyone have any info or experience with the 905? I saw one person here has ordered it (and couldn't get 28mm tires to fit), but I never saw an overall report. 

Any thoughts much appreciated...


----------



## bvber

fronesis said:


> Does anyone have any info or experience with the 905? I saw one person here has ordered it (and couldn't get 28mm tires to fit), but I never saw an overall report.


That was me. I've waiting for the warmer weather to really test it out but to no avail (been riding my "dirty" bike instead). But my extended evaluation on 905 is coming.


----------



## fronesis

bvber said:


> That was me. I've waiting for the warmer weather to really test it out but to no avail (been riding my "dirty" bike instead). But my extended evaluation on 905 is coming.


Ah, gotcha. If you could shoot me an IM when you post that evaluation, I'd really appreciate it. I think you are one of the first to build the 905, as I haven't been able to find anything.


----------



## ashmk2

ITS IN CLASSIFIEDS SO FEEL FREE TO TAKE THIS DOWN BUT CIRCUMSTANCES ARE FORCING SALE... SOOOO Carbon Road Bike Frame Full SRAM Force Groupset | eBay


----------



## timmy09

It's been a while since I have been on this thread. I just wanted to share pics of my build and just give my 2 pence if it helps another member. 

I bought a frame (YCRDF01) from Yoeleo. Initially things didn't go brilliantly. Yoeleo provided me a fork that was disc compatible but the frame only had v-brake mounts. I contacted Yoeleo with my obvious disappointment. I was informed that I would need to wait 3-4 weeks for the correct frame to come into stock and then added time of shipping. 

Contacting Yoeleo is easy prior to your purchase and their responses are very quick. I found after the order, their communications was some what slower. 

Ultimately, Yoeleo sent me a replacement frame without the fork. I had gone for 3K weave and I then painted the colour scheme myself. 

I am using 105 5800 groupset and TRP HY-RD disk brakes. The wheels are form another Chinese supplier (sorry I forget the name). The frame is a joy. Whilst this is my first road bike, so I cannot compare with other bikes, I can say this bike feels quick and agile. Overall inc. pedals it weighs 8kg. I am not fussed about the bike weight as I need to loose 10kg (5'7" - 80KG :blush2 before I can consider trimming weight of the bike.

I still have the wrong frame (minus the fork) from Yoeleo as I presume it would have cost them too much for me to send it back to China. 

Any questions, please feel free to ask.


----------



## mjb152

[email protected] said:


> I've built up a Velobuild R-051 with the R785's, really like it.
> The hoods are a little bigger, but they feel really good in the hand.
> 
> I've blacked the silver part out (with Plastidip) so they don't look as big:


very late replying, but thanks for this, the plastidip idea is brilliant !!


----------



## ashmk2

The winning bidder on my frame build kit combo has backed out, he made an auto bid v early on and i guess when he reaised he'd won he'd spent his money....
http://www.ebay.com/…/Carbon-Road-Bike-Frame-…/121956077725…
ANYWAY
getting relisted. this is a bike you throw heels on and run pb's ive done metrics and imperials on it no fuss. i was warned before buying it that rear brake was poor so brake cables are yokozuna and **** they work... 
the TRP TTV and T922's are like £200 a set by themselves! brakes pads are swissstop yellow wit 1500 miles on em, front der is brand new (changed frames to braze on). the rest is force 2011 (imho best looking scuffs are to be expected yeah but they work great, also brand new hoods on the shifters... toupe saddle brand new (bout 200 miles) erganova bars. carbon bottle cages... pride and joy this is... looks great rides great, is great..... but we need money... if you have strava https://www.strava.com/athletes/10864236 all ride done on this as it is... PLEASE SHARE EVEN IF YOU READ THIS FAR AND DONT CYCLE! WE NEED MONEY!


----------



## ridersyko

timmy09 said:


> It's been a while since I have been on this thread. I just wanted to share pics of my build and just give my 2 pence if it helps another member.
> 
> I bought a frame (YCRDF01) from Yoeleo. Initially things didn't go brilliantly. Yoeleo provided me a fork that was disc compatible but the frame only had v-brake mounts. I contacted Yoeleo with my obvious disappointment. I was informed that I would need to wait 3-4 weeks for the correct frame to come into stock and then added time of shipping.
> 
> Contacting Yoeleo is easy prior to your purchase and their responses are very quick. I found after the order, their communications was some what slower.
> 
> Ultimately, Yoeleo sent me a replacement frame without the fork. I had gone for 3K weave and I then painted the colour scheme myself.
> 
> I am using 105 5800 groupset and TRP HY-RD disk brakes. The wheels are form another Chinese supplier (sorry I forget the name). The frame is a joy. Whilst this is my first road bike, so I cannot compare with other bikes, I can say this bike feels quick and agile. Overall inc. pedals it weighs 8kg. I am not fussed about the bike weight as I need to loose 10kg (5'7" - 80KG :blush2 before I can consider trimming weight of the bike.
> 
> I still have the wrong frame (minus the fork) from Yoeleo as I presume it would have cost them too much for me to send it back to China.
> 
> Any questions, please feel free to ask.
> 
> View attachment 313688
> View attachment 313689


That is a lovely looking bike, was that your own paint scheme?


----------



## jlandry

Same here. Love the bike, and the paint job us very unique.


----------



## timmy09

jlandry said:


> Same here. Love the bike, and the paint job us very unique.


Thank you.

It was my own paint scheme. I had a little play before settling on this design. The paint is a Harley Davidson colour. In retrospect, I would not use it again. It required a total of 6 coats to achieve the colour. This left ridges when I removed the masking and had to put in lots of hours sanding to make it all super smooth.

More pictures attached.


----------



## sceadu498

Here is my completed bike. It is built up from a Wiel B075 Carbon Frameset. Shimano 105 10 speed components and Rolf vector Wheels Rides great so far, have only had 1 ride on it so far.


----------



## AMD_5

Hey all,

I'm strongly considering one of these frames for a new build but have some reservations. I'm a _bit_ of a Clydesdale (185cm/115kg) and I've been through all the material about bigger guys on carbon frames and the consensus seems to be that it doesn't come down to the frame but the wheelset.

That being said, I'm much more skeptical about Quality Control for a $600 unbranded frame vs a $3k frame from a reputable brand. Any of you out there have one of these frames and are a bigger guy like me? Any concerns, issues, problems?


----------



## Yekrut

Hello All,

I was wondering if anyone had any experience with the VB-R-058? Does anyone know what bike this frame is replicating? (e.g the VB-R-055 is clearly a Cervelo R5). Looking to upgrade from my current motobecane vent noir.


----------



## jmorton

Hello All,

I am looking for a list of Chinese carbon fiber frame/wheel distributors. Does anyone have a list of websites?


----------



## svard75

Hi. Any recent reviews on cycle young? I placed an order on a frameset. 

Removed link...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## masi85

Interesting how that frame allows you to increase the head tube length up to 25mm with plug in spacers! Otherwise it looks a lot like an R5 frame with a more practical BB86 than the BBright bottom bracket the R5 requires.


----------



## svard75

Masi85. It does look very interesting indeed. I also found that Argon 18 is an actual real brand out of Montreal Canada. I thought this was a replica, however in every way it is identical to the gallium pro frameset even down to the 3D headset! So does this Chinese Vendor source the exact frame that Argon 18 sources it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## buddiesconfusion

Does anyone have any info on the new endurance frame from Hongfu FM028

Here's the link

http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/html_products/2016-NEW-full-carbon-aero-road-gravel-frame-318.html

If like to build up one of these for my wife but it would be her first real road bike and I don't want a frame that super hearse on all of our chip seal roads here in Oregon.


----------



## svard75

buddiesconfusion said:


> Does anyone have any info on the new endurance frame from Hongfu FM028
> 
> Here's the link
> 
> http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/html_products/2016-NEW-full-carbon-aero-road-gravel-frame-318.html
> 
> If like to build up one of these for my wife but it would be her first real road bike and I don't want a frame that super hearse on all of our chip seal roads here in Oregon.


Looks like an interesting frameset. If you want comfort then get a cross frameset and put 32mm tires on.


----------



## buddiesconfusion

I also don't want to lean towards to much comfort as she said she'd like to do some triathlons in the future. Granted I guess she could do them on a cross frame. I honestly don't think she will use her bike for gravel roads. I wanted disc for the stopping ability, and I'm used to deal with disc from mtbing. Although seeing the price difference for disc to your standard brake set I wondering if it's really worth it for her.


----------



## svard75

buddiesconfusion said:


> I also don't want to lean towards to much comfort as she said she'd like to do some triathlons in the future. Granted I guess she could do them on a cross frame. I honestly don't think she will use her bike for gravel roads. I wanted disc for the stopping ability, and I'm used to deal with disc from mtbing. Although seeing the price difference for disc to your standard brake set I wondering if it's really worth it for her.


I wouldn't go with disc purely because modulating a disc brake is much more challenging than caliper or cantis. Those are also more forgiving especially if riding on rough roads. I'm not talking from personal experience though just more imagining the touchy disc brakes on my mountain bike as road brakes.


----------



## tlg

svard75 said:


> I wouldn't go with disc purely because modulating a disc brake is much more challenging than caliper or cantis. Those are also more forgiving especially if riding on rough roads. I'm not talking from personal experience though just more imagining the touchy disc brakes on my mountain bike as road brakes.


Uhhh no, discs have better modulation than calipers. That's one of the main advantages of disc. 

There's zero issue modulating a disc brake on the road. I'm talking from personal experience.


----------



## buddiesconfusion

My issue is that the current sram/shimano disc shifter/lever combos are spendy. I can get the a 2x11 rival HRD 22 for roughly $235 a side with the lever and caliper (no disc). It seems like a lot when you can get an entire 105 5800 group for less than 450.


----------



## svard75

tlg said:


> Uhhh no, discs have better modulation than calipers. That's one of the main advantages of disc.
> 
> There's zero issue modulating a disc brake on the road. I'm talking from personal experience.


Thanks for the correction tlg. I was mostly assuming it would be less challenging to modulate cantis. There was an article that I read in a bike magazine that disc is more difficult to modulate but don't recall the specifics around what kind. Like if it was cable pull vs hydro. Anyway what's all the fuss about disc brakes being dangerous by the UCI? Did I misread the title of the article?


----------



## svard75

Ah. Found and read. Not related to our discussion anyway more of a fear during a crash of what the disc can do with the wheel still spinning. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jay561

Well I think my top tube in my FM98 has a crack. Still under the warranty period. So far Ive only put 3,073 miles on it only road it for maybe 4 months. Bought the frame in July 2015. Still love the bike. I just bought another recently and put it together this weekend. Lets see how Dengfu handles the warranty.


----------



## svard75

I assume no impacts were the cause of the crack. Are you sure it's the carbon instead of the clear coat? Tap it with a coin around the area and the area. If it's a duller sound then yes it's carbon. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Migen21

The coin test is not a reliable way to detect cracks. Especially small ones. They work better for delamination checks, but cracks require more sophisticated methods.


----------



## svard75

Migen21 said:


> The coin test is not a reliable way to detect cracks. Especially small ones. They work better for delamination checks, but cracks require more sophisticated methods.


If there is a crack wouldn't there be some amount of delamination as well? 

On the other hand if one section of frame cracked without delamination I would question what other areas of the frame are weak to create the torsion force to crack a carbon tube? I would trash the entire frame.


----------



## Jay561

svard75 said:


> If there is a crack wouldn't there be some amount of delamination as well?
> 
> On the other hand if one section of frame cracked without delamination I would question what other areas of the frame are weak to create the torsion force to crack a carbon tube? I would trash the entire frame.


No delamination can't even feel a ridge where it's located. Don't feel so bad though before Chinese carbon I was riding BMC SLR01s which the first one they sold me a crash replacement after a broken hanger ripped the dropouts off, and I'm positive it was no fault of mine. Cost for replacement was $3,300. That replacement cracked after I got hit from behind by a H2 Hummer. Insurance paid full value and I switched to these types which I'm happy with. Thanks Geico! I've bought 5 frames so far and I'm actually faster on these. 

I just really hope they will honor the warranty. I love the FM98 the most. Guess this week I will ride the one I built a few days ago now. Was going to be a training bike. Can't trust that possible crack. 

Funny how fast they respond to a possible sale. No response yet from them about this, not sure what the process is like. Anyone have any experience with dengfu and replacements?


----------



## Jay561

svard75 said:


> I assume no impacts were the cause of the crack. Are you sure it's the carbon instead of the clear coat? Tap it with a coin around the area and the area. If it's a duller sound then yes it's carbon.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nope it never hit the deck. So with this coin method I should get a different pitch where I believe the crack is? Off to YouTube I go. 

Thanks for for your helpfulness.


----------



## svard75

Jay561 said:


> Nope it never hit the deck. So with this coin method I should get a different pitch where I believe the crack is? Off to YouTube I go.
> 
> Thanks for for your helpfulness.


Well according to some other guys it may not necessarily reveal a crack. And not all cracks are delaminated in the same area. If you are genuinely concerned and the frame feels a bit strange while riding then get an X-ray on it.


----------



## Jay561

svard75 said:


> Well according to some other guys it may not necessarily reveal a crack. And not all cracks are delaminated in the same area. If you are genuinely concerned and the frame feels a bit strange while riding then get an X-ray on it.


I can hear the difference with a coin for sure on my cracked BMC. Tested the FM98 and it sounds fine. Not sure if its just a paint stress issue. Is that a common thing? Ive seen other forums were people had that happen, just want to be sure. I guess I will roll the dice and ride it a bit and watch the area. Its not all the way across the TT or all the way around so I will see how this plays out. Felt fine when I rode it yesterday. 

Cant X-ray it right now, my X ray machine is broken.

Thanks again for your help.


----------



## aclinjury

svard75 said:


> Well according to some other guys it may not necessarily reveal a crack. And not all cracks are delaminated in the same area. If you are genuinely concerned and the frame feels a bit strange while riding then get an X-ray on it.


how much would it cost to xray a frame? more than the cost of the frame?


----------



## svard75

aclinjury said:


> how much would it cost to xray a frame? more than the cost of the frame?


Yes it would cost money, obviously, hence why my first response was to trash the frame if any concern and get new.


----------



## Jay561

Yeah I would buy another in a second if it starts creaking, crack growing, or feeling less stiff. Happy you guys chilled me out a bit. 

Still interested about getting a response from dengfu. Will update.


----------



## n2deep

aclinjury said:


> how much would it cost to xray a frame? more than the cost of the frame?


A meaningful X-ray may cost between one and two thousand as it will take a couple attempts to get the density set an then a few shots on different angles to locate/identify any defects.

IMHO, Unless you have known standards or empirical data to use for calibration, the shots will be of little value.


----------



## n2deep

Have you considered pressure testing,, you could make a fixture to seal off the head tube and use a manual pump to get a few PSI, a little Joy soap and all cracks would standout,, Just be careful not to use a lot of pressure.


----------



## svard75

Cool. Hey on another note I got a few items from competitive cyclist total was over $200 and they sent me a few gift cards. 2x $20 blue apron, 1x $100 wine voucher for naked wines. And a free uber ride up to $20. That'll come in handy if I get stranded somewhere without a tube/tire kit. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jay561

n2deep said:


> Have you considered pressure testing,, you could make a fixture to seal off the head tube and use a manual pump to get a few PSI, a little Joy soap and all cracks would standout,, Just be careful not to use a lot of pressure.


Great idea but I'm just going to keep a eye on it.


----------



## GhostDragon

Hi, I am hoping some one on here can help me.

I have a Miracle MC053 also known as the Miracle Foil as it was based on the Scott Foil.

The issue I have is that it is missing the seat post clamp wedge system.

I am having difficulty sourcing the piece from China,

I was wondering if any one is willing to sell the seat post clamp system from their frame or if not if they would be willing to sell the whole frame with the clamp system?

Below are pictures of my frame with the missing clamp, the last two pictures are some one else's picture of the pieces I am missing.

Thanks


----------



## GhostDragon

*Help with MC053 Miracle Foil Chinese Carbon Frame Seat post Clamp Wedge*

Hi, I am hoping some one on here can help me.

I have a Miracle MC053 also known as the Miracle Foil as it was based on the Scott Foil.

The issue I have is that it is missing the seat post clamp wedge system.

I am having difficulty sourcing the piece from China,

I was wondering if any one is willing to sell the seat post clamp system from their frame or if not if they would be willing to sell the whole frame with the clamp system?

Or any other ideas on how to secure the seat post?

Below are pictures of my frame with the missing clamp, the last two pictures are some one else's picture of the pieces I am missing.

Thanks


----------



## Notvintage

Lol. Buy Chinese trash and reap the Chinese payback. This is becoming an epidemic on these forums. It's called "Chinese Lottery," in that you never know what you're going to get as they don't believe in any quality control.


----------



## Jay561

Well I heard back from Dengfu. Top notch customer service. Quicker response compared to when I delt with BMC through my LBS. They said they do not cover paint damage, which I replied that I would never expect that, and expect me to order another frame soon. 

Took my new unpainted lighter FM98 for a quick spin last evening. Feels great. Running on 6800 with C35s (16.30lbs) vs the other painted white running 6870 and C50s (17.35lbs). About a pound difference in weight. Think I'm going to buy another FM98 unpainted and put 9000 and C24s on it for climbing/windy days. Can't wait to see what that ends up weighing. Funny, my 2015 BMC SLR01 was 15.70lbs with 9000 and C35s. 

I really feel I can't go wrong with this frame. It just fits me so well and has the stiffness I feel good with.


----------



## svard75

GhostDragon said:


> Hi, I am hoping some one on here can help me.
> 
> I have a Miracle MC053 also known as the Miracle Foil as it was based on the Scott Foil.
> 
> The issue I have is that it is missing the seat post clamp wedge system.
> 
> I am having difficulty sourcing the piece from China,
> 
> I was wondering if any one is willing to sell the seat post clamp system from their frame or if not if they would be willing to sell the whole frame with the clamp system?
> 
> Below are pictures of my frame with the missing clamp, the last two pictures are some one else's picture of the pieces I am missing.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> View attachment 313914
> View attachment 313915
> View attachment 313916
> View attachment 313917


If you can find someone with a 3D printer and willing to make it for you for cheap.


----------



## svard75

Wondering if anyone else has a PF BB frameset from China. How has the tolerance been with the diameter of the BB? Any creaking?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## svard75

Jay561 said:


> Well I heard back from Dengfu. Top notch customer service. Quicker response compared to when I delt with BMC through my LBS. They said they do not cover paint damage, which I replied that I would never expect that, and expect me to order another frame soon.
> 
> Took my new unpainted lighter FM98 for a quick spin last evening. Feels great. Running on 6800 with C35s (16.30lbs) vs the other painted white running 6870 and C50s (17.35lbs). About a pound difference in weight. Think I'm going to buy another FM98 unpainted and put 9000 and C24s on it for climbing/windy days. Can't wait to see what that ends up weighing. Funny, my 2015 BMC SLR01 was 15.70lbs with 9000 and C35s.
> 
> I really feel I can't go wrong with this frame. It just fits me so well and has the stiffness I feel good with.


The question I think everyone is asking "So is it just clear coat or carbon?" If you really want to know simply sand the clear coat off that area or if you're steady handed use a rotary tool to remove just the small area where the crack is that way you can fill it back in using clear nail polish.


----------



## Jay561

svard75 said:


> The question I think everyone is asking "So is it just clear coat or carbon?" If you really want to know simply sand the clear coat off that area or if you're steady handed use a rotary tool to remove just the small area where the crack is that way you can fill it back in using clear nail polish.


I suck with a rotary tool. Like I said I'm sure it's just the paint. Time will tell.


----------



## Jay561

svard75 said:


> Wondering if anyone else has a PF BB frameset from China. How has the tolerance been with the diameter of the BB? Any creaking?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have a R-043 with bbright. I used a rotor bracket and used loctite. 4k miles no creaking what so ever so far. I brought it with me for a month in Colorado and stayed in a area at 10k ft, so I really put it through some serious out of saddle work.


----------



## svard75

Jay561 said:


> I have a R-043 with bbright. I used a rotor bracket and used loctite. 4k miles no creaking what so ever so far. I brought it with me for a month in Colorado and stayed in a area at 10k ft, so I really put it through some serious out of saddle work.


So loctite around the BB shell. There's no thread on bbright right?


----------



## Jay561

svard75 said:


> So loctite around the BB shell. There's no thread on bbright right?


Nope none. It just like my BB86 on my BMC. Fun part is when you have to take them out. That's the reason I'm sticking with threaded BB from now on. Cost also is a issue since a Dura Ace BB is like $25-$30.


----------



## svard75

Jay561 said:


> Nope none. It just like my BB86 on my BMC. Fun part is when you have to take them out. That's the reason I'm sticking with threaded BB from now on. Cost also is a issue since a Dura Ace BB is like $25-$30.


What about the reliability of supposed larger bearings/surfaces for BB86? Doesn't that offset the additional BB costs?

I guess this is a risk that comes with buying non-standard fittings on a Chinese frameset. If it doesn't work I'm out $600.


----------



## GhostDragon

GhostDragon said:


> Hi, I am hoping some one on here can help me.
> 
> I have a Miracle MC053 also known as the Miracle Foil as it was based on the Scott Foil.
> 
> The issue I have is that it is missing the seat post clamp wedge system.
> 
> I am having difficulty sourcing the piece from China,
> 
> I was wondering if any one is willing to sell the seat post clamp system from their frame or if not if they would be willing to sell the whole frame with the clamp system?
> 
> Or any other ideas on how to secure the seat post?
> 
> Below are pictures of my frame with the missing clamp, the last two pictures are some one else's picture of the pieces I am missing.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> View attachment 313918
> View attachment 313919
> View attachment 313920
> View attachment 313921


My own thread seems to have been moved, any one with this frame out there able to help at all?


----------



## Jay561

svard75 said:


> What about the reliability of supposed larger bearings/surfaces for BB86? Doesn't that offset the additional BB costs?
> 
> I guess this is a risk that comes with buying non-standard fittings on a Chinese frameset. If it doesn't work I'm out $600.


Im not sure since it stays pretty wet here in south Florida and personally I go through BB pretty much at the same mileage no matter what the type is. About to head out in a group ride in a afternoon downpour.


----------



## Jay561

Notvintage said:


> Lol. Buy Chinese trash and reap the Chinese payback. This is becoming an epidemic on these forums. It's called "Chinese Lottery," in that you never know what you're going to get as they don't believe in any quality control.


Yeah I feel the same way about any carbon frame. Not just the China ones. I was chatting with Cervelo dealer this week and he was telling me about how many he has coming back cracked, and to never buy one. Personally I'm amazed at the quality and customer service of my dengfu frames. I will continue to play this lottery since I'm winning. 

To to each their own. It's not like carbon fiber is a new technology. 

My new FM98 was flying in tonight's group ride against some real high priced frames.


----------



## bvber

Jay561 said:


> My new FM98 was flying in tonight's group ride against some real high priced frames.


What do their faces look like when they are passed?


----------



## ridersyko

bvber said:


> What do their faces look like when they are passed?



Awesome..... 

Its not about the bike.....  haha


----------



## Jay561

bvber said:


> What do their faces look like when they are passed?


For some reason some riders wont even talk to me. I try and be very social. I look at it this way, regular people that dont ride bikes already think Im a fruitcake for riding a bike in "spandex", only the elitist "I love my high priced frame but cant keep up with the group" guys give me the evil eye. The true fast guys dont care where my bike came from as long as Im a safe and strong rider.


----------



## Jay561

ridersyko said:


> Awesome.....
> 
> Its not about the bike.....  haha


Not for me at least. Ive worked hard on training right when I started Chinese carbon. Where I was at with my high priced BMC was laughable. 

Thursday in a fast paced groupride I hit 1527 watts on a bike most people think will explode if you ride it.


----------



## svard75

Jay your right the key to gaining respect in any group is not the bike but your resolve and abilities. 

I've received some photos. Frameset looks exceptionally good. 




















Have a question surrounding the bottom of the bottom bracket. Take a look at the derailleur cable guide for the front derailleur. Looks like it goes through the guide then 120 degrees to the hole and up. Looks like a whole lot of nasty bends. Is that how it is routed or is the tube misleading?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jay561

svard75 said:


> Jay your right the key to gaining respect in any group is not the bike but your resolve and abilities.
> 
> I've received some photos. Frameset looks exceptionally good.
> View attachment 314030
> View attachment 314031
> View attachment 314032
> View attachment 314033
> 
> 
> Have a question surrounding the bottom of the bottom bracket. Take a look at the derailleur cable guide for the front derailleur. Looks like it goes through the guide then 120 degrees to the hole and up. Looks like a whole lot of nasty bends. Is that how it is routed or is the tube misleading?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Are you planning on running a electronic group? Looks wrong for mechanical but electronic it shouldnt be a problem. Maybe they have another cable guide depending on what group but it still looks unique.


----------



## svard75

Jay561 said:


> Are you planning on running a electronic group? Looks wrong for mechanical but electronic it shouldnt be a problem. Maybe they have another cable guide depending on what group but it still looks unique.


Mechanical. Red 10spd groupset. I wonder if I reverse that piece? I asked the vendor about it.


----------



## svard75

I figured it out by looking at the UK review with the super record groupset. The tube is misleading and you trim at the guide. That guide is for the rear derailleur for which the cable simply extends to the rear chainstay cable mount seen in the distance in that photo. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## nirVELOvana

svard75 said:


> Jay your right the key to gaining respect in any group is not the bike but your resolve and abilities.
> 
> I've received some photos. Frameset looks exceptionally good.
> View attachment 314030
> View attachment 314031
> View attachment 314032
> View attachment 314033
> 
> 
> Have a question surrounding the bottom of the bottom bracket. Take a look at the derailleur cable guide for the front derailleur. Looks like it goes through the guide then 120 degrees to the hole and up. Looks like a whole lot of nasty bends. Is that how it is routed or is the tube misleading?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 My! How times have changed! Time was, mods would have deleted _your posts_ seconds after you posted them. 

Used to be that even dropping the name "_cycle young_" [_sic_] was enough to get you banned permanently. I — _for one_ — welcome the improved tolerance.

I love how Mother's Day makes us all so much less uptight.


----------



## svard75

nirVELOvana said:


> My! How times have changed! Time was, mods would have deleted _your posts_ seconds after you posted them.
> 
> Used to be that even dropping the name "_cycle young_" [_sic_] was enough to get you banned permanently. I — _for one_ — welcome the improved tolerance.
> 
> I love how Mother's Day makes us all so much less uptight.


Sorry I must have missed something sir. Please explain.

Oops. Forgot replicas are not allowed. Apologies. I took the identifying picture out.


----------



## nirVELOvana

svard75 said:


> Sorry I must have missed something sir. Please explain.Oops. Forgot replicas are not allowed. Apologies. I took the identifying picture out.


I don't think you needed to delete anything. I mean, you had posted _your link_ up ten whole days ago already. I would take the fact that they allowed _your link_, to mean your pics were also OK.


----------



## ridersyko

Jay561 said:


> Not for me at least. Ive worked hard on training right when I started Chinese carbon. Where I was at with my high priced BMC was laughable.
> 
> Thursday in a fast paced groupride I hit 1527 watts on a bike most people think will explode if you ride it.


 Yes, I totally agree. When I first turned up on my bike to my club ride, my club mates who I ride with asked what the frame was, I told them, they said it looks good and that was that. Back to riding fast.
I think I got more respect due to the fact I had a go at building the bike myself.
I also certainly don’t hang around when riding.


----------



## mattyfatty27

*Vb-r-053*

Has anyone had any encounters with Velobuild's VB-R-053 frame? Can't seem to find any reviews online. VB-R-053 New Road Race Frame Aero Carbon Frame,Road Frame


----------



## svard75

mattyfatty27 said:


> Has anyone had any encounters with Velobuild's VB-R-053 frame? Can't seem to find any reviews online. VB-R-053 New Road Race Frame Aero Carbon Frame,Road Frame


Not directly answering your question, however one key decision that swayed me away from an aero frameset is the seat post. I don't know if you have any experience with carbon seat posts. Most are well built but some are not. In my case I had one that would not stop creaking. No matter how much paste or different clamps I tried it still creaked. I finally replaced with alloy and grease and it went away. If you happen to experience the same issue what are your options for new seat post?


----------



## ms6073

Somewhat of a topic drift and I think this question has been raised before, but I noticed Fezzari is updating there road lineup with the addition of the Shafer gravel road bike. Pretty sure these are private label versions of the same open mold frames were are discussing, so does anyone know the manufacturer from where Fezzari sources frames?


----------



## svard75

ms6073 said:


> Somewhat of a topic drift and I think this question has been raised before, but I noticed Fezzari is updating there road lineup with the addition of the Shafer gravel road bike. Pretty sure these are private label versions of the same open mold frames were are discussing, so does anyone know the manufacturer from where Fezzari sources frames?


Not even close. Note the 12mm through axles on both ends. Note the bottom of the BB there's routing for hydro for brakes. And the extra long headtube is also outside of the open molds that I have seen.


----------



## Nathb

Hello all,

Thank you for all the information so far, it's been fantastic and most of all reassuring that buying Chinese carbon is not going to spontaneously combust - contrary to what other forums have led me to believe. 

I'm looking at a Ican AC059 or Flyxii FR602 - few questions:
1) This bike will take a good knock from potholes etc? More so than a road only equivalent (this will be my first carbon bike).
2) Is it worth grabbing a matching carbon seatpost from one of them too?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Buckit

Anyone interested in my Hong Fu FM296?

I'm willing to sell just the frameset. I also have a used $200 (when I bought it) Selle Italia Max Flite Gel Flow Saddle that I'll throw in if you buy the whole bike.

HongFu FM296 - 105 Groupset - 1yr old - under 150miles - RoadBikeREVIEW.Com


----------



## svard75

On a more selfish note. I received my order from C. Y. Excellent workmanship inside and out. About 6 years ago I purchased an FM015 ISP from hongfu. There were subtle things about the carbon that bothered me such as newspapers inside the tubes, wrinkled matting and inconsistency in the layup. This new frameset is perfect in every way. From the clean and empty tubes from the headtube to the bottom bracket being an exact fit BB86. I just can't believe how light it is. Will have to weigh it one day. The headset is integrated with three height options. 0mm, 15mm and 25mm. Fork doesn't require a crown race. The seat post fit is perfect in terms of tightness. It's a 27.5 I believe. Extra hanger was included, headset, an FSA K-Force seat post was included which I will not use. I prefer the ritchey cockpit I already own. Still have to build and ride to share other pros/cons to come. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Phildog

Hey guys. I had been looking for a new saddle for my Zhong Wei R002. It had a cheap Vader saddle when I first got it, but that seat was less than what I really wanted. Well, recently, I purchased a saddle off Craigslist. It's exactly what I wanted, although it's from Asia, it's identical to a popular name saddle (I read the rules, so I don't want to reference it, as it may get me banned). 

So, have any of you experienced this saddle? It fits me perfectly, and it's almost weightless. Anything I should be aware of, or concerned about? 

This is the saddle...















You can clearly see that it is identical to another saddle. That's why I opted not to refer to that name. I hope I don't get banned for this.


----------



## ghettocop

Whats with the counterfeit Argon 18 photo?


----------



## MMsRepBike

ghettocop said:


> Whats with the counterfeit Argon 18 photo?


Dude's been posting about it for weeks now and moderators won't moderate.


----------



## svard75

ghettocop said:


> Whats with the counterfeit Argon 18 photo?


I deleted my original photo identifying the brand. Unfortunately others had already quoted me. Apologies.


----------



## ghettocop

No you didn't. Post 462 identifies counterfeit branding.


----------



## Phildog

So my above post is ok? My seat isn't name-branded, but it is an SMP style saddle.


----------



## svard75

ghettocop said:


> No you didn't. Post 462 identifies counterfeit branding.


I'm using tapatalk and I see photos but none of them contain any branded logos. Where are you seeing branding? There are hints, however I don't thing anyone objects as I haven't mentioned the brand and it's not like it gives anything away. I haven't actually ever heard of that official brand before googling it after purchasing the frameset. 
I do not regret my purchase, branding aside its a very good frameset.


----------



## svard75

Building up the bike and am sort of stuck. There are liners entering the frame at the headtube. 3 and the two shifter openings are obviously too large to use an alloy end cap. The frame came with 3 of these 








However when I push the end cap through there's no stop it goes right through. Should I crimp the back side a bit or do I run a stupid housing all the way through?

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bugly64

*Fm105-d*

FM105-D with the Ultegra Cx group with H Sons plus wheels.
Just got done with an Honor ride in which I ran over my riding bud after he crashed in front of me. He had some scrapes and I ended up in a ditch. The crash occured at mile 30 and we finished the 55 mile ride with no other crashes.


----------



## bvber

svard75 said:


> However when I push the end cap through there's no stop it goes right through.


How far does it go through? It happened to my new Chinese made frame but it stops at about an inch in. There is a stop in mine.


----------



## svard75

bvber said:


> How far does it go through? It happened to my new Chinese made frame but it stops at about an inch in. There is a stop in mine.


Thanks for your response. I didn't wait so I built it up using housing that ran into the headtube all the way down to the BB. There is a bottom cable guide that is removable. The housing terminates at the guide.

Shot of the inside of the headtube with housing. I used Jagwire SLX-SL to help offset the weight issue. It's not gore but it's good stuff.


----------



## Jay561

Well Ive been beating the crap out of the fm098 I thought was cracked. I put 2 sharpie 
marks where the area of concern is. Seems to be the white paint just stressing. 

Still cant get over how much I love this frame though. Im planning on ending up with 4 of them for different conditions. It rides so well. Last few fast group rides Ive been getting a ton of questions and I think I might be changing minds. Even a large chain bike store district manager who rides a very similar specialized is jealous about little things like I can choose the BB, colors, graphics, and the cost, he likes threaded BB but his specialized is a press fit. He first started out about telling about a video of a chinese frame exploding which I replied come on, how many top end carbon bikes break that you sell? Got a smile from that comment.


----------



## svard75

Jay561 said:


> Well Ive been beating the crap out of the fm098 I thought was cracked. I put 2 sharpie
> marks where the area of concern is. Seems to be the white paint just stressing.
> 
> Still cant get over how much I love this frame though. Im planning on ending up with 4 of them for different conditions. It rides so well. Last few fast group rides Ive been getting a ton of questions and I think I might be changing minds. Even a large chain bike store district manager who rides a very similar specialized is jealous about little things like I can choose the BB, colors, graphics, and the cost, he likes threaded BB but his specialized is a press fit. He first started out about telling about a video of a chinese frame exploding which I replied come on, how many top end carbon bikes break that you sell? Got a smile from that comment.


I completely understand bike shop mechanics and owners when they frown at these framesets and likewise push the few reported cases of exploding issues. Think about how much money they lost when buying direct. 
Just a reminder the car you drive or the house you live in contains a good percentage of parts manufactured in China. Even some of the larger bike companies have their product built there and Taiwan. Yes better QC can hopefully be expected but not always. 

Anyway keep riding the snot out of your FM098 and may the force ride with you.


----------



## svard75

So far so good. Need a braze-on washer to finish her off and a few other things but looks great and feels super light


----------



## hammermc

svard75 said:


> Thanks for your response. I didn't wait so I built it up using housing that ran into the headtube all the way down to the BB. There is a bottom cable guide that is removable. The housing terminates at the guide.
> 
> Shot of the inside of the headtube with housing. I used Jagwire SLX-SL to help offset the weight issue. It's not gore but it's good stuff.


i think long term the housing vibration is going to rub the hole larger.


----------



## svard75

hammermc said:


> i think long term the housing vibration is going to rub the hole larger.


There are alloy inserts to prevent this.


----------



## svard75

Update: went for a ride yesterday. Put it through its paces. Rough roads and all. Rides well. The frame is on the larger side. Very long top tube. Need a zero offset seatpost and shorter stem (100mm vs 120 current). The cable housing that I ran internally sucks. On rough roads in particular it vibrates like crazy and sounds like a cheap plastic bike (which it is but anyway). I picked up some frame alloy cable stops. So far no creaking from anything. BB is solid even on standing climbs. So far way to early to tell but it hasn't exploded yet. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Phildog

*Anyone Riding a Zhong Wei frameset?*

I've had mine going on one year now. It's the R-002. I'm 5'8" and 155lbs., so I'm not adding much stress to the frame. The bike is holding up very well after 2800 miles. I'm loving this frame more than my Kestrel Talon. And the 11spd 105 is really smooth. If you ride one, how's yours holding up? Any thoughts?


----------



## Jay561

Phildog said:


> I've had mine going on one year now. It's the R-002. I'm 5'8" and 155lbs., so I'm not adding much stress to the frame. The bike is holding up very well after 2800 miles. I'm loving this frame more than my Kestrel Talon. And the 11spd 105 is really smooth. If you ride one, how's yours holding up? Any thoughts?
> 
> View attachment 314327
> View attachment 314328
> View attachment 314329


I really love mine, only issue I had is the BB shell had major over spray which was killing my threaded bottom brackets quickly creating a creak. I have to face the shell but have been lazy about it. Plan on making this my rain bike. I put 4k miles on mine so far in a short period.


----------



## Phildog

Jay561 said:


> I really love mine, only issue I had is the BB shell had major over spray which was killing my threaded bottom brackets quickly creating a creak. I have to face the shell but have been lazy about it. Plan on making this my rain bike. I put 4k miles on mine so far in a short period.


Thanks Jay. 4K? Nice! No complaints from me either. I did upgrade the saddle to a full carbon. It's exactly like the Selle SMP, and upgraded the pedals to 105. Beyond that, the only other thing I may do is add some black decals to the frame and wheels. And speaking of the wheels, these Novatec hubs aren't that bad. But another 3k miles will tell me more about them.But so far so good.


----------



## Vee

Well, I am back around for a bit. My FM015-ISP has way too many miles on it at this point and I am itching for something different. I pulled the trigger on an LTK118, 54CM BB30, Raw finish the other day. I am considering building it up completely raw and for now I will be transferring most of my components from my FM015-ISP over to the new frame. I will throw up some pictures of the build and finished product once I receive it.


----------



## ridersyko

1000 mile update VBR027...

Had to re-grease the headset bearings due to creaking, seem to have sorted it. I've done a few big rides on it now. The biggest was just over 100 miles and a lot of climbing. The bike is still holding up well, its just bedding in I guess.

Not sure how I've managed 1000 already, this I my summer fair weather machine an not my daily commuter, but there you go.

Only changes are wheels to Shimano C24 carbon and I need to get around to putting in the ultegra 6700 cranks on. Also looks like velobuild have changed their website and the VBR 027 is no longer listed...


----------



## 415Veloman

*Hongfu FM169 (aka the Avenger R8) Build and Review*

I just got my Hongfu FM169 (aka the Avenger R8) in on Thursday and built it up over the weekend. I also got their UAM 56mm carbon clincher wheelset. I built it up with ultegra 6800. I'm doing a full review of the frame and wheels. 

I have to say thanks to everyone on this thread for all their input. I browsed this thread a ton before I bought it and thought it would be helpful to contribute as well. 

Here's a couple of pic's of it and I'm doing a full video review. Here's a couple of links to the youtube videos I've done so far. You'll notice I added my own custom decals and dressed it up a bit. I have a vinyl cutter so if anyone wants any, just ping me. 















https://youtu.be/y_YNky5Y4Gs

https://youtu.be/86qWdmzOIU4

https://youtu.be/qJVbzsByGKQ

More updates to come!

Cheers.


----------



## svard75

415Veloman said:


> I just got my Hongfu FM169 (aka the Avenger R8) in on Thursday and built it up over the weekend. I also got their UAM 56mm carbon clincher wheelset. I built it up with ultegra 6800. I'm doing a full review of the frame and wheels.
> 
> I have to say thanks to everyone on this thread for all their input. I browsed this thread a ton before I bought it and thought it would be helpful to contribute as well.
> 
> Here's a couple of pic's of it and I'm doing a full video review. Here's a couple of links to the youtube videos I've done so far. You'll notice I added my own custom decals and dressed it up a bit. I have a vinyl cutter so if anyone wants any, just ping me.
> 
> View attachment 314385
> View attachment 314386
> 
> 
> https://youtu.be/y_YNky5Y4Gs
> 
> https://youtu.be/86qWdmzOIU4
> 
> https://youtu.be/qJVbzsByGKQ
> 
> More updates to come!
> 
> Cheers.


Great stuff. The first two vids are a bit on the dark side.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Nathb

Oo looks like Flyxii have just released a couple of new frames FLX-FR-906 (51cm only) and FLX-FR-905. Both very cheap!


----------



## bvber

Nathb said:


> Oo looks like Flyxii have just released a couple of new frames FLX-FR-906 (51cm only) and FLX-FR-905. Both very cheap!


FR-905 has been out for a while. I bought one last November.


----------



## 415Veloman

*Hongfu FM169 (aka the Avenger R8) Build and Review*

Yea, my place has a lot of back light in the afternoon.

Here's the final video review, it's a little long, but I wanted to get out all of the info I gathered. 

https://youtu.be/jlqMVqCrzA8


----------



## xaznperswaesonx

415Veloman said:


> I just got my Hongfu FM169 (aka the Avenger R8) in on Thursday and built it up over the weekend. I also got their UAM 56mm carbon clincher wheelset. I built it up with ultegra 6800. I'm doing a full review of the frame and wheels.
> 
> I have to say thanks to everyone on this thread for all their input. I browsed this thread a ton before I bought it and thought it would be helpful to contribute as well.
> 
> Here's a couple of pic's of it and I'm doing a full video review. Here's a couple of links to the youtube videos I've done so far. You'll notice I added my own custom decals and dressed it up a bit. I have a vinyl cutter so if anyone wants any, just ping me.
> 
> View attachment 314385
> View attachment 314386
> 
> 
> https://youtu.be/y_YNky5Y4Gs
> 
> https://youtu.be/86qWdmzOIU4
> 
> https://youtu.be/qJVbzsByGKQ
> 
> More updates to come!
> 
> Cheers.


Good looking bike! Got two of them sittin in the living room awaiting for a good deal on the Ultegra groupo and wheel set to finish the build.

Did you have to press in the lower headset bearing or did yours just slid right in?


----------



## 415Veloman

xaznperswaesonx said:


> Did you have to press in the lower headset bearing or did yours just slid right in?


Thanks! I'm happy with the way she came out. Check out  Chain Reaction Cycles | MTB | Road | TRI | Run, I got my groupo for like 624 from them. 

I had to press it in, which I thought was good cause thats the place you don't want any play or movement. Top fell right in.

Cheers!


----------



## xaznperswaesonx

Thanks for the quick reply!

Seems like the 165mm sell out quick. I got my last ultegra group from MerlinCycles.com for a good price. Seems like cheapest i have found is from Merlin with the direct mount brakes for $640 ish. Waiting for the 165mm to be instock.


----------



## TSur

415Veloman said:


> Yea, my place has a lot of back light in the afternoon.
> 
> Here's the final video review, it's a little long, but I wanted to get out all of the info I gathered.
> 
> https://youtu.be/jlqMVqCrzA8


I just wanted to thank you for your videos on this bike frame because of them I just pulled the trigger yesterday and I can't wait for it to get here! This will be my 2nd road bike and 2nd Chinese carbon frame. I currently have a Velobuild R-022 and it has worked well for me, but haven't had anything to compare it with. I wanted to try an Aero bike, but didn't want to break the bank. Thanks again!


----------



## 415Veloman

TSur said:


> I just wanted to thank you for your videos on this bike frame because of them I just pulled the trigger yesterday and I can't wait for it to get here! This will be my 2nd road bike and 2nd Chinese carbon frame. I currently have a Velobuild R-022 and it has worked well for me, but haven't had anything to compare it with. I wanted to try an Aero bike, but didn't want to break the bank. Thanks again!



My Pleasure man, I had to give back to all the folks how've been posting all the info on here. 

You're going to love the bike, I'm still taken back by it.

Cheers!


----------



## svard75

415Veloman said:


> My Pleasure man, I had to give back to all the folks how've been posting all the info on here.
> 
> You're going to love the bike, I'm still taken back by it.
> 
> Cheers!


Can you comment on the finish you received and if you can see how the carbon layup was done specifically at the joints. In my experience I bought a hongfu frame FM015 with a custom paint job and 3k finish. They used garbage paper inside the joints I guess to help support the layup mats so they don't collapse during curing and when looking closely at the joints from the outside the layup was wrinkled. Mind you this was several years ago and to be honest it hasn't exploded but I hardly ever rode that bike. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 415Veloman

svard75 said:


> Can you comment on the finish you received and if you can see how the carbon layup was done specifically at the joints. In my experience I bought a hongfu frame FM015 with a custom paint job and 3k finish. They used garbage paper inside the joints I guess to help support the layup mats so they don't collapse during curing and when looking closely at the joints from the outside the layup was wrinkled. Mind you this was several years ago and to be honest it hasn't exploded but I hardly ever rode that bike.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's definitely the old school style of laying up carbon. It looks like they are using a high presser bladder during the curing now. I've seen some frame that are still using low pressure bladders and you get a lot of lumps and low/high points inside the joints. 

Here's some pic's of inside the headtube and you can see all of the joints are perfectly smooth with no resin clumps or high/low points. I will note there was low spots on the steer tube, but I end up cutting that section off because it was so high up on it.


----------



## xaznperswaesonx

svard75 said:


> Can you comment on the finish you received and if you can see how the carbon layup was done specifically at the joints. In my experience I bought a hongfu frame FM015 with a custom paint job and 3k finish. They used garbage paper inside the joints I guess to help support the layup mats so they don't collapse during curing and when looking closely at the joints from the outside the layup was wrinkled. Mind you this was several years ago and to be honest it hasn't exploded but I hardly ever rode that bike.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Both of my FM169 had issues with the lower head tube's molded carbon cup. Didn't seem to be fully circular and the diameter were slightly smaller than the diameter of the headset bearing themselves. 

I pressed it in but felt uneasy since i'm so use to with metal cups to where the bearing would just slide in. After calling a local specialized dealer and talked to a mechanic there, since one of their model has molded carbon cups, the mech said that the bearing should just slide in not pressed in. 

Talking to one other user on weight weeny who also bought the frame, he said his slid right in. 

So i guess they still need some better QC. I sanded my lower head tube by placing the bearing in by hand and flashlight to spot any areas that light couldn't pass through. I then sand out areas that light wouldn't pass through. This seem to work and the bearing was manually pressed in with light pressure with my fingers as i didn't want to sand too much due to structural integrity .


----------



## 415Veloman

xaznperswaesonx said:


> Both of my FM169 had issues with the lower head tube's molded carbon cup. Didn't seem to be fully circular and the diameter were slightly smaller than the diameter of the headset bearing themselves.
> 
> I pressed it in but felt uneasy since i'm so use to with metal cups to where the bearing would just slide in. After calling a local specialized dealer and talked to a mechanic there, since one of their model has molded carbon cups, the mech said that the bearing should just slide in not pressed in.
> 
> Talking to one other user on weight weeny who also bought the frame, he said his slid right in.
> 
> So i guess they still need some better QC. I sanded my lower head tube by placing the bearing in by hand and flashlight to spot any areas that light couldn't pass through. I then sand out areas that light wouldn't pass through. This seem to work and the bearing was manually pressed in with light pressure with my fingers as i didn't want to sand too much due to structural integrity .


I totally hear what you're saying, but there's a ton of different types of headsets and the two we are talking about are the "slip-fit" which is the one you are familiar with, were the headset just falls in, like the top one and then there's the "interference-fit" also called the "press-fit". This style became popular in 2010 with the Trek Madone, where the bottom was a "press-fit" in and the top was a "slip-fit. Santa Cruz uses this style with their Nomad, so I wasn't surprised that this was the cast with this one. 

I don't think there is a QC issues as the top is a perfect "slip-fit" and this design of bottom press and top slip has been used by Trek since 2010. 

Cheers


----------



## svard75

From the sounds of it there seems to have been a roundness issue with the bottom cup not so much a press vs slip. It's rather important that in either case the bearing doesn't have additional pressure on just a few areas. But in any case its the risk we all understand. And it was resolved with a bit of elbow grease. Hey I'll bet the sanding made your frame lighter now lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## xaznperswaesonx

415Veloman said:


> I totally hear what you're saying, but there's a ton of different types of headsets and the two we are talking about are the "slip-fit" which is the one you are familiar with, were the headset just falls in, like the top one and then there's the "interference-fit" also called the "press-fit". This style became popular in 2010 with the Trek Madone, where the bottom was a "press-fit" in and the top was a "slip-fit. Santa Cruz uses this style with their Nomad, so I wasn't surprised that this was the cast with this one.
> 
> I don't think there is a QC issues as the top is a perfect "slip-fit" and this design of bottom press and top slip has been used by Trek since 2010.
> 
> Cheers


That would be more understandable if all of the FM 169 sold were the same. As stated, two of my frame needed pressing for the lower bearing, yours as well, and the other from a user on weightweenie was a slip fit. 

Other than the lower head tube issue, frame looks of good quality from my untrained eye.

From your video .. i can't wait to finish my build!



svard75 said:


> From the sounds of it there seems to have been a roundness issue with the bottom cup not so much a press vs slip. It's rather important that in either case the bearing doesn't have additional pressure on just a few areas. But in any case its the risk we all understand. And it was resolved with a bit of elbow grease. Hey I'll bet the sanding made your frame lighter now lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


lol it shaved some grams maybe. but yea some elbow grease was to be expected since price of frame was so cheap.


----------



## Salocin714

First time posting on this thread. I'm looking or wanting to buy a Touring/ Fondo type of frame size 49cm. It can get a bit confusing going back and forth to the different models from the vendors\sellers. Wanting to buy the frame, fork, seatpost, and headset. Any help would be appreciated. I've been riding for years but a newbie wanting to build a bike from scratch. Looking for model and seller advice.


----------



## Phildog

RVA said:


> Thought I'd share my experience building up my own carbon bike since I used the previous threads extensively while researching my own build.
> 
> I started researching around the new year and with the spring and summer rolling around pulled the trigger on everything about 4 weeks ago. Went with the Velobuild r-022 frame as velobuild got great reviews, this was a popular frame, and fit what i was looking for not being a direct copy of a branded bike and as a plus happened to be one of the least expensive at $450 shipped. Got 38mm U clinchers from farsports as they were also a highly regarded retailer and seemed worth the extra price at $650. Finally got a SRAM Force 22 groupset from Merlin Cycles for about $700 shipped. Other parts were from ebay to finish the build, including a chinese version 3t aeronova bar. Total cost was about $2250 so under my hopeful budget of $2500 and weighed in under 15 pounds. I ran into no issue with any of the retailers and everything was delivered on time if not early and didnt have to pay any import fees. Luckily a friend of mine had everything built at the LBS for free.
> 
> Took it out for my first few rides this week and could not be happier. The bike is incredibly stiff, but not uncomfortably so, and handles like a rocket. I previously had a Kestrel Talon (which may have been a size too big?) and it absolutely handles more nimbly, climbs better, and descends just as well. Flat straights may be about even or in the kestrels favor, but overall can say this was certainly an upgrade and will be more fun as well as unique. I've already had someone come up to me in the cafe after my ride the other day and ask me about it.
> 
> Long story short I highly recommend going the chinese carbon route for those looking for a unique, light, and high performance bike on a budget. I cant comment on durability and obviously only time will tell about that.
> 
> View attachment 305524


 Wow RVA, we have the exact same story. I, too went from a slightly large Kestrel Talon. Then, literally, by luck, I came into the exact same bike as you. I didn't have the fortune of building it myself, as I got mine in a trade. The owner fell in love with the Talon, after he rode it. It fit him perfectly, and he like the flex of the frame. But the R-002 frame is VERY stiff, great for climbing, yet fast as lightning...exactly what I needed. And it has 88mm wheels. But my R-002 is dressed in Shimano 105. Overall, it's, by far, as good as any other bike available...to me. I'd highly recommend a Chinese build.


----------



## TSur

415Veloman said:


> My Pleasure man, I had to give back to all the folks how've been posting all the info on here.
> 
> You're going to love the bike, I'm still taken back by it.
> 
> Cheers!


Build parts have started to come in and I can't wait. I got a mix of 6800 and Dura Ace on various online stores and a couple things slightly "used" on eBay. My Velobuild R-022 has all 5800 on it, so even with the FM169 being a bit heavier this should still come out to be about 550-600g lighter overall.  Aero and lighter... Can't complain with that. :thumbsup:

How long did shipping take for you to get the frame? Mine has been shipped, but not sure when to expect it. It will be a race between my 9001 shifters I got on sale from Merlyn with their free shipping and the frame. 

BTW - I started to follow you on Strava to check out your progress with the bike. Hope thats cool.  - Travis

I was REALLY considering this bike:
https://www.speedx.com/en/leopardpro/index.html

Seems like a hell of a deal T1000 and the frame looks very close to the FM169... di2 with carbon wheels under $2500 and GPS computer... (I don't think that includes shipping though.) But... They don't make it in my size 58-60 so no dice.


----------



## 415Veloman

xaznperswaesonx said:


> That would be more understandable if all of the FM 169 sold were the same. As stated, two of my frame needed pressing for the lower bearing, yours as well, and the other from a user on weightweenie was a slip fit.
> 
> Other than the lower head tube issue, frame looks of good quality from my untrained eye.
> 
> From your video .. i can't wait to finish my build!
> 
> 
> 
> lol it shaved some grams maybe. but yea some elbow grease was to be expected since price of frame was so cheap.


That's good intel, I didn't know some folks were getting frames that were slip-fit on the bottom! 

Post some pic's when your build is done, I'm pretty stoked to see all the other bikes that are coming together. 

Cheers!


----------



## 415Veloman

TSur said:


> Build parts have started to come in and I can't wait. I got a mix of 6800 and Dura Ace on various online stores and a couple things slightly "used" on eBay. My Velobuild R-022 has all 5800 on it, so even with the FM169 being a bit heavier this should still come out to be about 550-600g lighter overall.  Aero and lighter... Can't complain with that. :thumbsup:
> 
> How long did shipping take for you to get the frame? Mine has been shipped, but not sure when to expect it. It will be a race between my 9001 shifters I got on sale from Merlyn with their free shipping and the frame.
> 
> BTW - I started to follow you on Strava to check out your progress with the bike. Hope thats cool.  - Travis
> 
> I was REALLY considering this bike:
> https://www.speedx.com/en/leopardpro/index.html
> 
> Seems like a hell of a deal T1000 and the frame looks very close to the FM169... di2 with carbon wheels under $2500 and GPS computer... (I don't think that includes shipping though.) But... They don't make it in my size 58-60 so no dice.



Hey Travis,

I just followed you back. I had the bike out at the races yesterday, she got a ton of compliments! I finished mid pack in the first race and then popped in the second after a failed 3 man break away. I had some pretty tired legs after not being on the bike for a while and then riding 100 miles this week and then racing, was a great time though and the bike handled amazing, not going to change a thing. 

It only took 7 days for the frame and wheels to get here, so hopefully yours will get there in the same about of time. The speedX looks like a pretty sweet deal, it got a ton of media coverage when it's Kickstarter blew up. 

Looking forward to seeing the pics of your bike!

Cheers!


----------



## svard75

TSur said:


> Build parts have started to come in and I can't wait. I got a mix of 6800 and Dura Ace on various online stores and a couple things slightly "used" on eBay. My Velobuild R-022 has all 5800 on it, so even with the FM169 being a bit heavier this should still come out to be about 550-600g lighter overall.  Aero and lighter... Can't complain with that. :thumbsup:
> 
> How long did shipping take for you to get the frame? Mine has been shipped, but not sure when to expect it. It will be a race between my 9001 shifters I got on sale from Merlyn with their free shipping and the frame.
> 
> BTW - I started to follow you on Strava to check out your progress with the bike. Hope thats cool.  - Travis
> 
> I was REALLY considering this bike:
> https://www.speedx.com/en/leopardpro/index.html
> 
> Seems like a hell of a deal T1000 and the frame looks very close to the FM169... di2 with carbon wheels under $2500 and GPS computer... (I don't think that includes shipping though.) But... They don't make it in my size 58-60 so no dice.


Lol. I contributed to their campaign and they keep pushing out the ship date. Would stay away from speedx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fronesis

*Running Di2 cables on FlyXii frame*

I'm all set to start my next build of a FlyXii bike (I've done 3 previously). This will be my first Di2 build. I think I have everything in place, but now I have a stupid question/problem.

For the entry of cables into the FD and RD (and out of the RD) the frame has these plastic bits with cable stops built in:









But my Di2 cables are too thick to enter through these plastic housing pieces.






*

Can I remove the plastic housing pieces and replace them with Shimano rubber grommets? Or is there some way that the Di2 cable can be made to go through the standard pieces that come with the frame?



*


----------



## lostPixels

Strongly considering picking up this frame, but I havent seen any reviews of it in this thread. Anyone have experience with it???


----------



## TSur

fronesis said:


> I'm all set to start my next build of a FlyXii bike (I've done 3 previously). This will be my first Di2 build. I think I have everything in place, but now I have a stupid question/problem.
> 
> For the entry of cables into the FD and RD (and out of the RD) the frame has these plastic bits with cable stops built in:
> View attachment 314491
> 
> 
> 
> But my Di2 cables are too thick to enter through these plastic housing pieces.
> View attachment 314492
> *
> 
> Can I remove the plastic housing pieces and replace them with Shimano rubber grommets? Or is there some way that the Di2 cable can be made to go through the standard pieces that come with the frame?
> 
> 
> 
> *


The plastic housing is just to help you route the cables vs trying to fish them around. You could try and and like duct tape one end of the black cable to the end of the white plastic tube and pull the white plastic through with your cable attached to help with the routing. I am not sure what the difference in the Di2 cable is vs standard but I assume that would work fine.


----------



## fronesis

TSur said:


> The plastic housing is just to help you route the cables vs trying to fish them around. You could try and and like duct tape one end of the black cable to the end of the white plastic tube and pull the white plastic through with your cable attached to help with the routing. I am not sure what the difference in the Di2 cable is vs standard but I assume that would work fine.



Thanks a lot for the reply. 

But that wasn't my problem. I understand that the WHITE plastic housing is just a guide for the mechanical cable.

My problem is that the BLACK pieces (they may be metal, not plastic) that are screwed into the frame, only have an opening large enough for mechanical cable. 















Put simply, the Di2 cable will not fit into the frame at the moment, unless I either drill out those pieces or remove them. 

And if I remove them, there is a HUGE hole in the frame.








At this point I am assuming that the best option is to drill out the black metal/plastic piece that screws into the frame. 

But it just surprises me that in the TONS of posts I've read about people building up china frames, I've never once seen anyone mention this. I've found lots of pictures of builds online, and I can see Di2 cables coming out of black frame adapters like I have, but I don't know how they got the cable to go through those pieces.


----------



## TSur

fronesis said:


> Thanks a lot for the reply.
> 
> But that wasn't my problem. I understand that the WHITE plastic housing is just a guide for the mechanical cable.
> 
> My problem is that the BLACK pieces (they may be metal, not plastic) that are screwed into the frame, only have an opening large enough for mechanical cable.
> 
> View attachment 314496
> View attachment 314497
> 
> 
> Put simply, the Di2 cable will not fit into the frame at the moment, unless I either drill out those pieces or remove them.
> 
> And if I remove them, there is a HUGE hole in the frame.
> View attachment 314498
> 
> 
> At this point I am assuming that the best option is to drill out the black metal/plastic piece that screws into the frame.
> 
> But it just surprises me that in the TONS of posts I've read about people building up china frames, I've never once seen anyone mention this. I've found lots of pictures of builds online, and I can see Di2 cables coming out of black frame adapters like I have, but I don't know how they got the cable to go through those pieces.


I would just drill out the plastic to fit. It shouldn't take much and would still look good.

I did do a quick search and there are some things you can buy for di2, but not sure if this will fit or not on your frame.

Shimano Di2 E-Tube Frame Grommets > Components > Drivetrain > Wires & Kits | Jenson USA


----------



## fronesis

TSur said:


> I would just drill out the plastic to fit. It shouldn't take much and would still look good.


Yes, I think that's my best option.



> I did do a quick search and there are some things you can buy for di2, but not sure if this will fit or not on your frame.
> 
> Shimano Di2 E-Tube Frame Grommets > Components > Drivetrain > Wires & Kits | Jenson USA


I have some of those, but they work with 5mm or 6mm holes. 

The hole on the FlyXii 322 frame, once you've removed the cablestop piece, is VERY large – more like 20mm x 8mm. 

I found someone online with a 3d printer who has made a flat piece to fit there. And I found a thread at another site discussing hongfu bikes, and they said hongfu makes a piece just like mine that is large enough for the di2 cable to pass. But I couldn't find them for sale on the hongfu site (some people received them with their hongfu frame order).


----------



## Bluechip

Is anyone else having trouble accessing the Dengfu website. I'm trying to narrow down my frame choices and I remember a couple I liked from them.


----------



## [email protected]

fronesis said:


> Yes, I think that's my best option.
> 
> 
> 
> I have some of those, but they work with 5mm or 6mm holes.
> 
> The hole on the FlyXii 322 frame, once you've removed the cablestop piece, is VERY large – more like 20mm x 8mm.
> 
> I found someone online with a 3d printer who has made a flat piece to fit there. And I found a thread at another site discussing hongfu bikes, and they said hongfu makes a piece just like mine that is large enough for the di2 cable to pass. But I couldn't find them for sale on the hongfu site (some people received them with their hongfu frame order).


Normally you should have gotten a flat plastic cable stop where you can put in the Shimano grommet. This is how it was on my bike::


----------



## BikeToCamp

Had my FM296 for a little over a year now. Check out my review on it.


----------



## fronesis

[email protected] said:


> Normally you should have gotten a flat plastic cable stop where you can put in the Shimano grommet. This is how it was on my bike::


Yes, those would be perfect. But my bike definitely didn't come with them. 

*Was yours a FlyXii bike? I'd love to be able to source some of those, either from FlyXii or whoever made your bike.*

I built the bike up today. All it lacks is the bar tape and setting my saddle position. 

For the present, I removed the metal stops that came on the frame and drilled them out. Worked pretty well. 

For the future, I've ordered two things:

1. Some Giant Bike rubber grommets that look like they could be the right size.

2. Some plastic pieces just like the ones in your picture, that someone was offering only to make with a 3D printer. 

Neither of these are guaranteed to work, but I figured they were worth a shot.


----------



## TSur

Just got my HongFu FM169 frame today. Wow that was faster then expected! I payed for it on the 1st and got it on the 7th!

Overall it feels and looks really good. I can not wait for all the parts to get there so I can get this on the road! I took some weights for anyone interested.

It's just matte black finish: 
Frame 1191g (58cm) 
Fork: 399g
Seat post: 227g


----------



## TSur

Build progress:
View attachment 314516

HongFu FM169 Left
Current bike: Velobuild R-022 Right (Saddle, pedals,and the rims/wheels will be used from this bike.)


----------



## Vee

Today I received my LTK118 (also known as a VB-R077) from LongTeng. I ordered the frame in raw (nude) finish, size 54.

The good news is that the frame actually came in under suggested weights from LongTeng. The seat post clamp that they sent with the frame is far too heavy to use @ 21g, but that is easy enough to fix. Overall I am quite happy with the shipment. 
List of weights are:
823.5g Frame (w/braze-on mount and rear hanger + cable linings and cable stops in place)
334.0g Fork (uncut)
167.0g Seatpost (w/ mounting hardware. uncut)

The bad news is that I do have one potential issue and it has me slightly concerned. I've noticed a small area on the seat stay, near the area where the stay meets the seat tube, that has a bit of an imperfection. There is a missing bit of carbon with the total size being approximately 1.5mm x 3mm and it affects more than just the surface layer of carbon, and clearly affects layers within the layup. I've done my best to shoot some photos but keep in mind this is a very very small area so it is hard to photograph. 










































What do you all think of this? I've reached out to LongTeng with photos but today is the Dragon Boat Festival holiday in China, so I ham going to have to wait a few days before I hear from them. I am tempted to try just filling this in with a little bit of epoxy and doing a quick sand down to fill the void. Do you believe this imperfection will affect the structural integrity of the frame over time? Does it seem like a major issue to you? I am on the fence about it...

Thanks guys. Hopefully this turns out to be a non issue and I can get some build photos up real soon. At this point my build is looking like it will end up somewhere under the 6.2kg mark (~13.6 lbs).


----------



## svard75

Vee said:


> Today I received my LTK118 (also known as a VB-R077) from LongTeng. I ordered the frame in raw (nude) finish, size 54.
> 
> The good news is that the frame actually came in under suggested weights from LongTeng. The seat post clamp that they sent with the frame is far too heavy to use @ 21g, but that is easy enough to fix. Overall I am quite happy with the shipment.
> List of weights are:
> 823.5g Frame (w/braze-on mount and rear hanger + cable linings and cable stops in place)
> 334.0g Fork (uncut)
> 167.0g Seatpost (w/ mounting hardware. uncut)
> 
> The bad news is that I do have one potential issue and it has me slightly concerned. I've noticed a small area on the seat stay, near the area where the stay meets the seat tube, that has a bit of an imperfection. There is a missing bit of carbon with the total size being approximately 1.5mm x 3mm and it affects more than just the surface layer of carbon, and clearly affects layers within the layup. I've done my best to shoot some photos but keep in mind this is a very very small area so it is hard to photograph.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you all think of this? I've reached out to LongTeng with photos but today is the Dragon Boat Festival holiday in China, so I ham going to have to wait a few days before I hear from them. I am tempted to try just filling this in with a little bit of epoxy and doing a quick sand down to fill the void. Do you believe this imperfection will affect the structural integrity of the frame over time? Does it seem like a major issue to you? I am on the fence about it...
> 
> Thanks guys. Hopefully this turns out to be a non issue and I can get some build photos up real soon. At this point my build is looking like it will end up somewhere under the 6.2kg mark (~13.6 lbs).


I really cannot provide you with professional opinions on this because I don't know how it was engineered. For example from what I understand of seat stays they take a good amount of force and impact particularly on rough surfaces. If that hole is truly straight through it makes me wonder where the carbon layup stops. If that entire section is molded with just resin than its a point of failure and drastic shattering failure with nothing to hold it together if it cracks. I surely wouldn't want the rear wheel up my butt. I understand how super frustrated this must be but even epoxy filled into the hole won't help. I vote to send it back. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Vee

svard75 said:


> I really cannot provide you with professional opinions on this because I don't know how it was engineered. For example from what I understand of seat stays they take a good amount of force and impact particularly on rough surfaces. If that hole is truly straight through it makes me wonder where the carbon layup stops. If that entire section is molded with just resin than its a point of failure and drastic shattering failure with nothing to hold it together if it cracks. I surely wouldn't want the rear wheel up my butt. I understand how super frustrated this must be but even epoxy filled into the hole won't help. I vote to send it back.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So it isn't through the carbon completely like a round hole intentionally made in the frame. It appears to be an imperfection from layup such as an air bubble or similar and it appears that this small 1.5mm by 3mm section affects about 10-20% of the overall thickness of the layup. 80-90% of the layup is still solid and in tact and applying weight and pressure to the area does not appear to cause any flex or noise. There is no cracking or anything disconcerting like that. It looks like once the surface layer was placed over it this area and everything got sanded down the sanding exposed the imperfection and they either ignored it or missed it. I'm betting that they'd have probably just filled it if they had noticed it but, like you, im not a professional. It is hard to say whether this is just cosmetic or if it's going to cause a structural issue, so maybe I'll just defer to the factory and watch the area closely. 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## svard75

Vee said:


> So it isn't through the carbon completely like a round hole intentionally made in the frame. It appears to be an imperfection from layup such as an air bubble or similar and it appears that this small 1.5mm by 3mm section affects about 10-20% of the overall thickness of the layup. 80-90% of the layup is still solid and in tact and applying weight and pressure to the area does not appear to cause any flex or noise. There is no cracking or anything disconcerting like that. It looks like once the surface layer was placed over it this area and everything got sanded down the sanding exposed the imperfection and they either ignored it or missed it. I'm betting that they'd have probably just filled it if they had noticed it but, like you, im not a professional. It is hard to say whether this is just cosmetic or if it's going to cause a structural issue, so maybe I'll just defer to the factory and watch the area closely.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Can you see straight through to the inside? You know the fibre sheet would look like and how difficult it would be, if properly made, to separate the fibres that's my concern if there's no visible fibres there there likely isn't any up to the seat tube. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Vee

svard75 said:


> Can you see straight through to the inside? You know the fibre sheet would look like and how difficult it would be, if properly made, to separate the fibres that's my concern if there's no visible fibres there there likely isn't any up to the seat tube.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I see what you mean. It appears that there are visible fibers and when light reflects off of the inside area I get the familiar UD sheen effect as it reflects light. Also worth noting that the tube doesn't appear hollow and instead seems to be solid in that specific area.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## svard75

Vee said:


> I see what you mean. It appears that there are visible fibers and when light reflects off of the inside area I get the familiar UD sheen effect as it reflects light. Also worth noting that the tube doesn't appear hollow and instead seems to be solid in that specific area.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


I may be tempted to say it's even more a concern that it's solid. Impregnating fibre is one thing but to have a solid lump of resin with UD fibres. Hmm. Correct me if I'm wrong but UD fibres are only strong when deflecting stress that is directly against the length of the fibres. For example if they are horizontal then it's only strong in that direction correct? Let's say if it was filled with UD fibres why would they fill the inside with resin? Why would they use UD fibres there instead of a stinger multideflecting weave? Just some questions that are going through my mind. Please do get it replaced. Our community would miss you if something were to happen. Speaking of missing prayers and thoughts out to the families and friends say of the 5 killed cyclists in Kalamazoo. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Vee

svard75 said:


> I may be tempted to say it's even more a concern that it's solid. Impregnating fibre is one thing but to have a solid lump of resin with UD fibres. Hmm. Correct me if I'm wrong but UD fibres are only strong when deflecting stress that is directly against the length of the fibres. For example if they are horizontal then it's only strong in that direction correct? Let's say if it was filled with UD fibres why would they fill the inside with resin? Why would they use UD fibres there instead of a stinger multideflecting weave? Just some questions that are going through my mind. Please do get it replaced. Our community would miss you if something were to happen. Speaking of missing prayers and thoughts out to the families and friends say of the 5 killed cyclists in Kalamazoo.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I can't say with certainty what the layup is across all areas of the frame, but there definitely appears to be a mix of 1k, 3k, and UD in the layup of the visible parts inside the frame. I cannot see inside of the affected section of the frame and the only glimpse I have is via this small imperfection. I don't believe what I am seeing in this imperfection is just resin. There is definitely in tact carbon fibers in this area but there is also some missing layers on the top, as well. 

I will definitely discuss with the factory further and see if they are willing to replace. Maybe that means I am still a month or more away from this build, as they had to make this specific combination of finish, size and bottom bracket for me last time.

Ugh...


----------



## ridersyko

Vee said:


> I can't say with certainty what the layup is across all areas of the frame, but there definitely appears to be a mix of 1k, 3k, and UD in the layup of the visible parts inside the frame. I cannot see inside of the affected section of the frame and the only glimpse I have is via this small imperfection. I don't believe what I am seeing in this imperfection is just resin. There is definitely in tact carbon fibers in this area but there is also some missing layers on the top, as well.
> 
> I will definitely discuss with the factory further and see if they are willing to replace. Maybe that means I am still a month or more away from this build, as they had to make this specific combination of finish, size and bottom bracket for me last time.
> 
> Ugh...



That's a bumer and I'd be inclined to try everything before sending it back. However if is structural it has to go back, just the chance you take when ordering direct from China.

The sending back will be a faf, but if its warrantied it should be covered, postage? Maybe not.
I had one or two imperfections when I got mine and sending a frame back was the last resort, luckily I didn’t have to do that.

Good luck.


----------



## ridersyko

415Veloman said:


> Yea, my place has a lot of back light in the afternoon.
> 
> Here's the final video review, it's a little long, but I wanted to get out all of the info I gathered.
> 
> https://youtu.be/jlqMVqCrzA8


 Hi,
I’ve looked at your youtube and I have to say great review on the bike, informative and reassuring I guess.


----------



## Vee

ridersyko said:


> That's a bumer and I'd be inclined to try everything before sending it back. However if is structural it has to go back, just the chance you take when ordering direct from China.
> 
> The sending back will be a faf, but if its warrantied it should be covered, postage? Maybe not.
> I had one or two imperfections when I got mine and sending a frame back was the last resort, luckily I didn’t have to do that.
> 
> Good luck.


I've sent things back to China before and it isn't too bad. This will be my seventh chinese frame order and all-in-all I have had very good luck for the most part. I will keep everyone posted on what LongTeng says.


----------



## fronesis

*FlyXii 322 with Di2 Build Complete*

I built up my FlyXii FR-322 earlier this week, and it was my smoothest build so far (I've built 3 previous FlyXii bikes) despite it being my first Di2 Build.

My one wrinkle as documented earlier in this thread: the cable stop metal pieces on the frame were designed for mechanical not electronic shifting, so the Di2 cables would not pass all the way through the holes. I removed the metal bits (they look like plastic, but they are definitely metal) and drilled them out. That worked fine, but wasn't waterproof. I also found two sources online for a better solution: 1) some Giant rubber grommets that fit fairly well, and 2) a custom 3D printer piece that looks like the flat pieces posted earlier in this thread. 

The bike was specced as follows:

FlyXii FR-322 Frameset, Size 56
FlyXii Stem
FlyXii carbon bottle cages (x2)
Cannondale Fire 3K Seatpost**
3T Ergonova Bars
Fizik Arione CX Saddle
Kinlin XR31 wheelset that I built
Shimano Ultegra 6870 Di2 full groupset
Ultegra pedals
Fizik bar tape

** I bought a FlyXii post, but they messed up and didn't send the hardware, so I'm waiting for it to arrive.

The bike weighed in at 15.89 lbs. 

I was impressed given that the wheelset is not all that light at 1520 grams. 

I got the saddle and bars on eBay, and got the groupset last fall during a Ribble sale, so total cost all in was just about $2,000.

I've only put 30 miles on it but so far it's incredible. It's lighter than my FR-315, yet seems stiffer. It is also MUCH quieter (my FR-315 always buzzed and rattled due to the internal cable guides). 

Di2 is another world in terms of shifting. I upgraded the firmware, and then set up the shifters custom. As I was coming from Campy, standard Shimano shifting is NOT intuitive for me (the paddles do the opposite on Shimano as on Campy). I set it up as follows:

Left Shifter Y button shifts the RD UP
Right Shifter Y button shifts RD DOWN
Left Shifter X button shifts FD UP
Right Shifter Y button shifts FD DOWN

Works perfectly.

Here's a picture:


----------



## masi85

Looks like a SL5 replica frame Specialized would claim your putting your life in grave danger to ride. Who knows since the comparison tests were done on SL4 frames maybe the Chinese have improved the new version.


----------



## ruckus

fronesis said:


> I built up my FlyXii FR-322 earlier this week, and it was my smoothest build so far (I've built 3 previous FlyXii bikes) despite it being my first Di2 Build.
> 
> It is also MUCH quieter (my FR-315 always buzzed and rattled due to the internal cable guides).


Wow, I'm amazed this frame is still sold, I guess it remains one of their more tried/proven/reliable and popular frame. I suppose if you have something good, not much to change in a bike frame. I bought mine in 2014 and tbh I find it too stiff? I've been thinking next year to build up a more compliant ride to for comfort riding hills, FR-322 is too performance for me.

As for the internal cable noise, I got rid of it using cable lining inside, I have no noise now. Can get plenty from any bike shop, it's black slick lining tubing.

Fun to see that my frame is still being built, bought and enjoyed. It's about 17 lb w/ 105 5700 full set. I believe it's only this light because it's a small 52cm frame, I have weirdly short legs, think my next build will be 51 or 50 cm.


----------



## ruckus

bugly64 said:


> FM105-D with the Ultegra Cx group with H Sons plus wheels.
> Just got done with an Honor ride in which I ran over my riding bud after he crashed in front of me. He had some scrapes and I ended up in a ditch. The crash occured at mile 30 and we finished the 55 mile ride with no other crashes.


Love the horned look  You're a bike building machine.


----------



## ruckus

bvber said:


> Picture taken just before the first test ride. Steer tube length still in the works.
> 
> View attachment 310888
> 
> 
> It rides nicely and seems little bit smoother than my R-002 frame.


Any more updates? Asking since this was the frame I was thinking of replacing the FR-322 w/ next year. Are you able to ride 25mm tires with it fine since that is part of the build I have in mind.


----------



## 504yaj

Jay561 said:


> I really love mine, only issue I had is the BB shell had major over spray which was killing my threaded bottom brackets quickly creating a creak. I have to face the shell but have been lazy about it. Plan on making this my rain bike. I put 4k miles on mine so far in a short period.


Heres mine from Velobuild. Been riding it for a year now and recently paired with a locally built 50mm carbon clincher. rides like a dream.. I might build a second bike using the FM169 and an Ultegra group set


----------



## [email protected]

fronesis said:


> Yes, those would be perfect. But my bike definitely didn't come with them.
> 
> *Was yours a FlyXii bike? I'd love to be able to source some of those, either from FlyXii or whoever made your bike.*
> 
> I built the bike up today. All it lacks is the bar tape and setting my saddle position.
> 
> For the present, I removed the metal stops that came on the frame and drilled them out. Worked pretty well.
> 
> For the future, I've ordered two things:
> 
> 1. Some Giant Bike rubber grommets that look like they could be the right size.
> 
> 2. Some plastic pieces just like the ones in your picture, that someone was offering only to make with a 3D printer.
> 
> Neither of these are guaranteed to work, but I figured they were worth a shot.


I got my frame at Velobuild and asked for a DI2 compatible frame, so I got these (no extra charge)
No idea if you can buy them seperatly.

Good luck with the further build.


----------



## fronesis

[email protected] said:


> I got my frame at Velobuild and asked for a DI2 compatible frame, so I got these (no extra charge)
> No idea if you can buy them seperatly.
> 
> Good luck with the further build.


Thanks for the reply.

I can now report that those Giant Bicycle rubber grommets DO fit in the holes on the FlyXii frame. So I'm all sorted.

Did a century yesterday on the new bike and new build, and aside from needing to reposition my left shifte – the whole thing was brilliant.


----------



## bvber

ruckus said:


> Are you able to ride 25mm tires with it fine


Yes, I use _Schwalbe One_ clincher 25mm tires and they fit with only about 2 mm clearance under the fork.


----------



## TSur

HongFu FM169 AKA: Avenger R8 build completed and first ride in the books. I only got a couple short rides in today on my commute to the gym, but it started to rain later in the day so it's a mess outside or I would go for a long ride.

Bike info:
It's a 58cm frame and came in right at 17lbs with pedals and my cadence sensor, but nothing else extra on it ATM. (No bottles, cages, gps) The bike has a mix of 6800 and 9000. Carbon aero 50mm deep aero rims that are 25mm wide. 44cm Zipp aero bars, a 110mm stem, speed play pedals.

The bike felt very stiff when sprinting and yet felt surprisingly good on some bumpy roads that my R-022 felt a bit harsh on. I can't wait to get a longer ride in hopefully tomorrow if it's nice to get a even better feel for the bike As of right now, I couldn't be happier with this purchase. I am happy I found this thread found out more about this frame.


----------



## 415Veloman

TSur said:


> Build progress:
> View attachment 314516
> 
> HongFu FM169 Left
> Current bike: Velobuild R-022 Right (Saddle, pedals,and the rims/wheels will be used from this bike.)


How is the build progressing? Post some pic's!


----------



## 415Veloman

Vee said:


> I can't say with certainty what the layup is across all areas of the frame, but there definitely appears to be a mix of 1k, 3k, and UD in the layup of the visible parts inside the frame. I cannot see inside of the affected section of the frame and the only glimpse I have is via this small imperfection. I don't believe what I am seeing in this imperfection is just resin. There is definitely in tact carbon fibers in this area but there is also some missing layers on the top, as well.
> 
> I will definitely discuss with the factory further and see if they are willing to replace. Maybe that means I am still a month or more away from this build, as they had to make this specific combination of finish, size and bottom bracket for me last time.
> 
> Ugh...


I have to agree here, it definitely looks like just a resin imperfection, but it is displacing a top layer of UD. I would say send it back just for piece of mind, a new frame should come with no imperfections, it's our job as cyclist to ding these bikes up.


----------



## TSur

415Veloman said:


> How is the build progressing? Post some pic's!



I just posted an update on my build today. There should be an attachment as well.


----------



## lostPixels

Still looking for opinions on the Chinese Tarmac SL5 frame, anyone buy one of these yet?


----------



## Nathb

Does anyone know if someone other than ICAN sell the "AC109":



















Ican only have it in BB86 and I'd like to avoid pressfit BB's if possible.


----------



## bruto

Here's a review of an incident with my piece of Chinese carbon:









Bought this last summer: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2015-Thru-...0mm-Disc-Brake-Matt-1-1-8-1-1-2-/221626684235
put the new bike (frame came from elsewhere) together some time later, rode if for a little bit before the cold, stored inside for winter, took out again in April, and with less than 1000km on it, both fork blades snapped in half under braking (on smooth pavement, slow speed): https://imgur.com/a/Uno5Q (taking the front rim and one of the shifters with it). Fortunately, it was as safe a place as could be for a crash like this so I myself came a way with just a slight scare and no bodily harm.

I'm 80kg or less in weight, do not do stoppies or drops and am generally gentle with my bike so this accident was deemed unacceptable and something was expected from the merchant.
They first offered a replacement but I didn't want the same fork for obvious reasons, then their QR model which I didn't want either (converted 3 wheelsets to thru-axle, wanted to stick with it) and then $50 because (I quote verbatim) "my factory said you already used the fork about 1 year" - apparently, these have a 'best before' date. I explicitly asked for a full refund, got offered $80 after a few days and took it.
For comparison, cost of purchase was $120 (fork) + 40 (shipping) + 20 (axle) but I couldn't find a way to escalate this and make use of ebay's problem resolution facilities so I figured that with no real leverage, haggling further might be counterproductive.

The new fork (a little heavier, so hopefully sturdier) cost me less than this one ($110 with axle, actually - direct from factory) so that helped cut the losses a bit.

Bottom line: if you deal with [email protected] and/or Miraclebike, do not expect much customer service should anything happen to your purchase. Better yet, shop elsewhere - there's no shortage of carbon vendors from China and Taiwan and some have better reputation than others.

On the bright side, the seller I bought the rim from sent me a replacement with no questions asked (he just needed to see the S/N after I asked him if this could _theoretically_ be considered a warranty issue) despite the breakage not being the rim's fault at all and the warranty period being actually over (it's 1 year). All this only because I brought 2 other customers to him and we bought 6 rims between us - and they aren't even expensive ones. Velocarbon have a thing or two to learn from this man.

Can post links to the shops where I got the rim and new fork from if anyone asks.


Stay safe, and may none of you ever hear your fork snap underneath you


----------



## Nathb

Thank you Bruto! I was just about to pull the trigger on a frameset from Miracle / ICAN. 

I'll go back to FLYXII instead!


----------



## bruto

what do you mean by "Miracle/ICAN"? Are they the same entity?


----------



## Nathb

bruto said:


> what do you mean by "Miracle/ICAN"? Are they the same entity?


Yeah same company, I can't find the exact quote but I've been researching for a while now.


----------



## bruto

Different contacts, different inventory save for a few common open mold frames/forks.
Doesn't make sense to have several fronts for the same factory serving the same markets.


----------



## Nathb

bruto said:


> Different contacts, different inventory save for a few common open mold frames/forks.
> Doesn't make sense to have several fronts for the same factory serving the same markets.


I can't find the quote.

I'm probably wrong, but I swear I remember someone saying it.


----------



## TSur

Went on my 2nd ride (20 miles) on the Avenger R8 and it just keeps getting better! I Still need to make a few fitting adjustments, but wow... I am not sure how, but I managed a couple KOM on climbs! I am around 215lbs so lets just say climbing is not my thing. Maybe it is because I was excited to be on a new frame and pushed it harder... I don't know, it just felt great. I defiantly give this HongFu frame 2 thumbs up! I can't wait to get more miles on it.


----------



## untarded

Here's a new road disc frame from Karbona. They're a Taiwanese company and I beleive used to get their frames from ADK, a Taiwanese manufacturer, not sure if that's still the case though.

I communicated with David from Karbona and he quoted me $520 (i don't think that included shipping). Made with T700, could support up to 25mm tires (no 28s) and would take 50-60 days for production.

Can also be ordered in matte black or custom paint (extra). 

I'm very tempted but pulled the trigger on an A18 GP frame. I'll probably wait until Canyon starts selling here in the US for an Aeroad disc frame.


----------



## ridersyko

Hello there, though I’d just like to say my bike in particular has been great for endurance rides. I completed an Audax yesterday and clocked up 151 miles with 12 Thousand feet of climbing.
Bike held up great, zippy up the hills and dealt with the technical decents very well, even in the wet (at times) Bike now at 1500 miles.


----------



## DNT

Just pulled the trigger on a HongFu HF-FM098 frame. It is a new frame from HongFu, and sort of a mix of aero/endurance. Has anyone else purchase it? I haven't been able to find any pictures of it completed yet, so I'll post some updates and thoughts about it here. Can't wait for it to arrive!


----------



## SL06

I am starting my second season with the MC296 frame (from Miracle) and I am also very happy with this frame. Mine is equipped with Campagnolo chorus groups and 38 mm carbon wheel from Farsport.


----------



## Nathb

New frame arrived today, I went with a FLYXII FR-602:












This is with liners etc still in place:










and uncut steerer:










So should be circa 1400g :thumbsup

I asked them to include a headset but they didn't... 

Will this one fit: Wiggle | LifeLine 1-1/8"-1.5" IntegratedHeadset with Carbon Cap | Headsets ??


----------



## BikeToCamp

*This is my FM296 review on my Youtube channel. Check it out.*


----------



## fronesis

Nathb said:


> New frame arrived today, I went with a FLYXII FR-602:
> 
> I asked them to include a headset but they didn't...
> 
> Will this one fit: Wiggle | LifeLine 1-1/8"-1.5" IntegratedHeadset with Carbon Cap | Headsets ??


Im pretty sure that's the right one -- you want 41.8mm lower and 52mm upper and both 45x45 angles. 

You will also need a carbon compression plug. 

FlyXii sells this very headset with the plug, so not sure why they failed to send it. I just had similar mixup with them: bought a frameset and a bunch of other things and they sent the seatpost without the right mounting hardware. I tried to get them to send the right hardware but they sent the wrong bolts again. After a bunch of emails they refunded me, so I'm still very pleased with their customer service -- but not quite sure what was going on.


----------



## Nathb

fronesis said:


> Im pretty sure that's the right one -- you want 41.8mm lower and 52mm upper and both 45x45 angles.
> 
> You will also need a carbon compression plug.
> 
> FlyXii sells this very headset with the plug, so not sure why they failed to send it. I just had similar mixup with them: bought a frameset and a bunch of other things and they sent the seatpost without the right mounting hardware. I tried to get them to send the right hardware but they sent the wrong bolts again. After a bunch of emails they refunded me, so I'm still very pleased with their customer service -- but not quite sure what was going on.


It was entirely my mix up, in my final confirmation email I forgot to mention the headset. Everything else is in top order so no complaints. 

The lifeline headsets specs are confusing:
NHB (OD 42 x 45° x 45° top - OD 52 x 45° x 45° bottom)
IS 42 / 28.6 - IS 52.2 / 39.8 

Flyxii sell the headset with NHB-6B top and NHB-15 bottom bearings (Neco H373) So I think they're the same? :blush2:


----------



## fronesis

Nathb said:


> The lifeline headsets specs are confusing:
> NHB (OD 42 x 45° x 45° top - OD 52 x 45° x 45° bottom)
> IS 42 / 28.6 - IS 52.2 / 39.8
> 
> Flyxii sell the headset with NHB-6B top and NHB-15 bottom bearings (Neco H373) So I think they're the same? :blush2:


Headset specs and nomenclature confuse the hell out of me. My strong guess is that they are exactly the same. To my knowledge there aren't different bearings of 41.8mm and 42mm (nor different bearings of 52mm and 52.2mm), but I don't have concrete knowledge to back up that hunch.


----------



## ruckus

bruto said:


> Stay safe, and may none of you ever hear your fork snap underneath you


Carbon QC is still not where it should in cycling. If Giant is not using ultrasound and scanning all their carbon forks and steerers, then I don't expect these smaller Chinese/Taiwanese factories to be doing the same. Was watching a video from a well known carbon repairer in Australia. His point was the manufacturing defect can't be seen by eye (air bubble/wrinkle), which is why the aerospace industry scan all their parts.

But thanks for the heads up, I was considering Miracle, will stick with Flyxii then.


----------



## ruckus

For those with a Flyxii 905 or 906, is the seatpost really 31.6 as listed on their website? My 322 is 27.2, so wondering what happened, why would they go bigger?


----------



## TSur

Just a quick FYI 28mm tires will not clear in the back on the Hongfu FM169 R8. I am a larger rider @ 215lbs (I was referred to as a linebacker by some people in my bike club last week.) I had some 28mm 4000s but no go in the back. Front looked like it would be fine, but I didn't want to run 25/28mm tires. I am still loving this frame though. Just wanted to pass that info along.


----------



## bvber

ruckus said:


> For those with a Flyxii 905 or 906, is the seatpost really 31.6 as listed on their website?


My 905 is 31.6 mm.


----------



## ruckus

bvber said:


> My 905 is 31.6 mm.


That's a shame. I hope for a new model in 2017 back to 27.2 or smaller and read for 25mm tires with more clearance.


----------



## SL06

SL06 said:


> View attachment 306658
> 
> 
> Here a photo of my MC296. Total weight is about 15,5 lbs with carbon wheel. Campy chorus groupo (2011). Frame was 930g as received with derailleur hangers installed. Carbon fork was 340 g
> Just did a 97 km Fondo with a lot of short hills, 1,2 km total ascend. It perform admirably well.
> 
> Very happy.
> 
> Now I have to work on a paint scheme....


I just want to post a long term review on my bike. I got this bike at the beginning of last summer and must have ride more than 6000 km on it by now. I typically ride 250 km / week these days. 

The bike is efficient and climb well. Its is a pleasure to ride. I have install this spring a 25c tire at the back for a smoother ride. The front one is 23c. Both are inflated a 100 psi. 

Other than what I have mention before, I did 2 other mineur modification to the bike. I give several coat of paint on the bottom part of the seatpost (the part that goes in the frame) to increase its diameter. I use epoxy paint because its hard. Now the seat post fit snug in the seat tube and stay in place, when bolted. I have also realize that the front derailleur hanger was not position correctly, and limit the range of action of the front derailleur before making noise. So I had to shift more often between the top and the lower gear, because the derailleur could not be set or trim correctly. I have modify the derailleur hanger and move it 2mm to the front direction. Now, my derailleur is close the campagnolo /Shimano recommandation and work as it should.

Yes I would buy the same frame....


----------



## ruckus

Well I hope someone from Miracle reads this and updates their MC296 to ensure hanger is correct and the seatpost is snug.



SL06 said:


> I just want to post a long term review on my bike. I got this bike at the beginning of last summer and must have ride more than 6000 km on it by now. I typically ride 250 km / week these days.
> 
> The bike is efficient and climb well. Its is a pleasure to ride. I have install this spring a 25c tire at the back for a smoother ride. The front one is 23c. Both are inflated a 100 psi.
> 
> Other than what I have mention before, I did 2 other mineur modification to the bike. I give several coat of paint on the bottom part of the seatpost (the part that goes in the frame) to increase its diameter. I use epoxy paint because its hard. Now the seat post fit snug in the seat tube and stay in place, when bolted. I have also realize that the front derailleur hanger was not position correctly, and limit the range of action of the front derailleur before making noise. So I had to shift more often between the top and the lower gear, because the derailleur could not be set or trim correctly. I have modify the derailleur hanger and move it 2mm to the front direction. Now, my derailleur is close the campagnolo /Shimano recommandation and work as it should.
> 
> Yes I would buy the same frame....


----------



## BigPoser

Here is a progress shot of my Workswell R-066. Just waiting for my BBInfinite BB and all will be done. Frame was 850gr for a 56cm and the fork was a chunky 398gr with the steerer cut. I've been very pleased with the quality of the frame inside and out so far. First ride will hopefully be this week.


----------



## TSur

Here is a couple pictures of my HongFu FM169 AKA: Avenger R8


----------



## xaznperswaesonx

Hongfu FM 169 (R8 Avenger) UD Matte
47 cm
Full Ultegra 6800 | 11-28 | 165mm Crank
90mm Ritchey WCS 220 Stem
40cm Ritchey WCS II Bar
Specialized Power Expert saddle
SRAM Bar tape & Chain Spotter
K-Edge Garmin Mount
Profile Design Striker Carbon aero Bar
Stock Trek Emonda S6 Wheel with 25mm Maxxis Refuse tire.

Currently 19.5 lbs

If I swap to a new set of wheels and take out the aero clip on bar .. should be 16.5 lbs. Wheels and clip on bar are porkers.

If you plan to buy the frame. I also recommend to pick up the Shimano CB-90 brake line adjuster for the rear brakes and a inline barrel adjuster for the front derailleur.


----------



## DCash

HF-FM296
SRAM Rival 22, old Rival Stages powermeter on the left side.
Baixaing 50x23mm wheels with Novatec hubs, 25mm Vittoria Rubino tech and Latex tubes
Deda Zero 100 bar and stem.

This is my second Hongfu bike. My FM015 had over 5,000 miles on it but was cracked while moving last year. I bought this frame because it is the exact same geometry as the FM015. Short head tube, very aggressive. Very stiff! I put it on the trainer and could not get any flex out of the back end. 

The fit and finish on the frame are very nice. I did have to tighten one of the rear hanger screws to align it correctly. The internal cable routing caused some frustration running the front derailleur cable but was able to guide it through with a magnet. The UD carbon isn't as pretty in the sun as I've seen on the likes of BMC or Fuji, and has nothing on my old 12k matte fm015, need to get some color on it at some point.


----------



## SL06

DCash said:


> HF-FM296
> SRAM Rival 22, old Rival Stages powermeter on the left side.
> Baixaing 50x23mm wheels with Novatec hubs, 25mm Vittoria Rubino tech and Latex tubes
> Deda Zero 100 bar and stem.
> 
> This is my second Hongfu bike. My FM015 had over 5,000 miles on it but was cracked while moving last year. I bought this frame because it is the exact same geometry as the FM015. Short head tube, very aggressive. Very stiff! I put it on the trainer and could not get any flex out of the back end.
> 
> The fit and finish on the frame are very nice. I did have to tighten one of the rear hanger screws to align it correctly. The internal cable routing caused some frustration running the front derailleur cable but was able to guide it through with a magnet. The UD carbon isn't as pretty in the sun as I've seen on the likes of BMC or Fuji, and has nothing on my old 12k matte fm015, need to get some color on it at some point.
> 
> View attachment 315187



I can't open the attachement...
I have the same frame but from Miracle (MC-296) and I have move the front derailleur hanger by 2 mm to the front to meet Shimano / campagnolo spec. It reduce the amount of rubbing and shifting. The front derailleur allow more cassette range at the back. It was a big improvement. 

Your my be different - check Shimano campy spec for front derailleur position....


----------



## DCash

SL06 said:


> I can't open the attachement...
> I have the same frame but from Miracle (MC-296) and I have move the front derailleur hanger by 2 mm to the front to meet Shimano / campagnolo spec. It reduce the amount of rubbing and shifting. The front derailleur allow more cassette range at the back. It was a big improvement.
> 
> Your my be different - check Shimano campy spec for front derailleur position....


Thanks for letting me know. I think I fixed it: picture displayed in post?

Because of your posts one of the first things I check when I received it was the seat post fit. The front hanger was fine, rear was a little loose but straight. 

Your post was also the one that turned me off of Miracle. I had seen a lot of people having issues with bottom brackets a couple years ago. Now it's seat posts and headsets.


----------



## SL06

Yes the attachement is fix.

I have bought from Hong-Fu before and had problem with front derailleur position. I think that the FM296 and MC 296 come from the same mould / manufacturer , but the carbon layout could be sometime different. That is why you see T700 or T800, T1000, and different weight advertise for the same frame...

I have fix my seat post with couple of layer of paint and its perfect now.


----------



## GammaDriver

Anyone have any issues with ordering a Planet X from the USA? My attempts this morning got denied both through trying to order with my Mastercard debit card, and by PayPal.

Edit: never mind - it was the bank shutting the transaction down


----------



## .je

I've narrowed my decision to either VB-R-055 or VB-R-077. These are available from their factories, but the prices for the same frame (+ headset + seatpost etc.) are still a little better at Velobuild.

The 77 is a newer design, maybe better over vibrations, not sure if LT makes nicer things than Dongfu, but it's $80 more, which is more than $100 after exchange to me. 
I prefer BSA, but the 55 comes with an adaptor...

If you look at the geo charts, they're almost exactly duplicates to the mm, except one has 5mm more stack.


Would you advise one above the other?? I'd like to pull the trigger in the next day or so...


----------



## HonzaVolenec44

Hi mates 
I wanna buys my first carbon frame but.. 
Could anyone reccomend me some manufactures and shops wehere to buy the most identical Cervelo S5 replica frame ? But also with the best quality because Im quite worry about that quality but on the other hand I know that even official carbon frame could damage well same as the chinese ones. 
I searched some S5´s on DHgate or Alibaba but someone told me that frame copies with logos on are the worse and told me that i should buy something like Velobuild frame without color and logo but when I looked to Velobuild 025 frame (Cervelo S5) it was not so identical as frames on DHgate.. I also heard something about Dengfu frames etc.. 
Could anyone reccomend some of these brands and if you reccomend DHgate, could you send me a link to one of these frames to PM ? Thanks mates


----------



## HonzaVolenec44

Final question..Anybody know if there is a manufacture which makes replica of Trek Madone 9 ? Thanks


----------



## DCash

HonzaVolenec44 said:


> someone told me that frame copies with logos on are the worse and told me that i should buy something like Velobuild frame without color and logo but when I looked to Velobuild 025 frame (Cervelo S5) it was not so identical as frames on DHgate.. I also heard something about Dengfu frames etc..
> Could anyone reccomend some of these brands and if you reccomend DHgate


Counterfeit frames with the logos are built for appearance over structural integrity. Some counterfeiters will use pictures of the real branded OEM frame not one that they produced. 

I've used Aliexpress and Alibaba to look at what frames are available. My frames were purchased directly through Hongfu.


----------



## HonzaVolenec44

DCash said:


> Counterfeit frames with the logos are built for appearance over structural integrity. Some counterfeiters will use pictures of the real branded OEM frame not one that they produced.
> 
> I've used Aliexpress and Alibaba to look at what frames are available. My frames were purchased directly through Hongfu.


But in Hogfu there is no S5 replica is it ?


----------



## bvber

See if this is what you are looking for.


----------



## HonzaVolenec44

bvber said:


> See if this is what you are looking for.


I saw that they had some problems with their carbon but thanks for link..
2016 Newest Carbon Road Bike Frame Glossy Matt Full Carbon Fiber Bike Frame Bb79 With Fork Seatpost Headset Clamp Custom Bike Frame Folding Bike Frame From Leadercycling, $621.11| Dhgate.Com

What ANYBODY think of this ? Thanks..


----------



## nobrainer32

I am looking for a large frame. The only one I found in Size 61 is this one described as RD111/FM2081: T800 SUPER LIGHT 700C CARBON ROAD FRAME FM2081

Any Opinon about it or Alternative?


----------



## R-Works

In the seemingly never ending search for a new awesome frames I came across the.. VB-R-066 (velobuild) also known as the OG-CF025. Looks like the design of the Canyon Ultimate. Anybody who has any experience with this frameset or seen it from other sellers?


----------



## The-DarKris

So since there is no "Chinese carbon gravel bike" thread (and since there aren't a lot of gravel specific frames) I thought I'd post this here:

I was looking around for a carbon thru axle gravel frameset although I was originally looking for cyclocross frames since not many all-road/gravel specific frames are mainstream. However once I specified gravel I actually came across two frames that piqued my interest, more-so the latter frame. 

The first one is from Hongfu and is there FM028. The two things that strike me about this frame are: it's a re-design of their previous FM028 road bike but with disc brakes, and it's aero. Tire clearance is stated between 28-35mm which is good, but it left me wanting more.









Link: 2016 NEW full carbon aero road gravel frame

In comes the Carbonda CFR505 which is embracing the "road plus" movement. It's not "aero" but it looks similar to the Jamis Renegade carbon. It also seems to have rack/fender mounts although I think it's mostly for fenders. The main selling point for me is that they state max. tire clearance as 700x40c/650x47b. 

I've been looking for a carbon frameset designed around 700c/650b mainly because coming from a "broke" college student I wanted a truly versatile bike that I was comfortable riding in most places save an mtb bike park. Unless no other manufacturer releases something similar within the next 3-4 months I will 100% be picking this up and reviewing it.









Link: CFR505 - Gravel - Carbonda Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.


----------



## bruto

you can also look at this: TR719FE
if you can find it in retail anywhere, that is 

also, does it have to be T-A front AND rear?
cause you can buy a frame and fork separately if not and I know just the fork for you

just don't get Miracle 286, that fork is not good (and neither is the company)


----------



## The-DarKris

bruto said:


> you can also look at this: TR719FE
> if you can find it in retail anywhere, that is
> 
> also, does it have to be T-A front AND rear?
> cause you can buy a frame and fork separately if not and I know just the fork for you
> 
> just don't get Miracle 286, that fork is not good (and neither is the company)


I was originally only going to get QR so I can swap my wheels over but after poking around I thought that TA would be a better solution for me. Also a number of wheelsets that I'm interested in are full ta so that would be easier.

As for the other frameset it looks nice, but I wish they listed the tire clearances, although the rear center seems long enough to take wide tires.


----------



## HonzaVolenec44

Painting Frame ! Chinese Carbon Road Bike Frame Good Quality S5 Frame Carbon Bicycle Fiber Frame Bicycle Frames Paint Bike Frame From Taiwancarbonsales, $603.02| Dhgate.Com

What anyone think of this frame ?? I is unbranded replica of S5 with same sizes but i dont know the factory :/


----------



## bruto

The-DarKris said:


> I was originally only going to get QR so I can swap my wheels over but after poking around I thought that TA would be a better solution for me. Also a number of wheelsets that I'm interested in are full ta so that would be easier.
> 
> As for the other frameset it looks nice, but I wish they listed the tire clearances, although the rear center seems long enough to take wide tires.


pretty sure most of those wheelsets are convertible so you can run them QR and TA depending on the frame

I wouldn't worry about carbon cx/gravel frame lacking clearance for 40c tires
they make them for 33-35c + mud so 40c is gonna work (but will lock up sooner if you find yourself in sticky conditions 
carbon frames generally have more space between chainstays than aluminum because the material allows to make them thinner without losing stiffness


----------



## The-DarKris

bruto said:


> pretty sure most of those wheelsets are convertible so you can run them QR and TA depending on the frame
> 
> I wouldn't worry about carbon cx/gravel frame lacking clearance for 40c tires
> they make them for 33-35c + mud so 40c is gonna work (but will lock up sooner if you find yourself in sticky conditions
> carbon frames generally have more space between chainstays than aluminum because the material allows to make them thinner without losing stiffness


Yeaaah, well I want to avoid the whole clogging issue if possible even though I tend to not deal w. mud outside of the trail at my university.


----------



## bruto

unless you race CX and find masochistic pleasure in ruining your bike, you won't encounter mud sticky enough to make you run out of clearance

normal people just don't ride their bikes in such conditions 

seriously, 40c is not much to ask of any carbon CX/gravel frame, at all


----------



## The-DarKris

bruto said:


> unless you race CX and find masochistic pleasure in ruining your bike, you won't encounter mud sticky enough to make you run out of clearance
> 
> normal people just don't ride their bikes in such conditions
> 
> seriously, 40c is not much to ask of any carbon CX/gravel frame, at all


Yeah you're right, but the keyword is "normal" which I am far from sooo.....


----------



## fmendes

HonzaVolenec44 said:


> What ANYBODY think of this ? Thanks..


Hi, first post here. In my opinion, a replica frame sort of defeats the purpose of having a "unique", uncommon bike. Not to mention the fact that the copier will be mostly worried about making a copy instead of a good product. 

There are many good products among these Chinese suppliers. In my opinion you would be better served with an original product with good history than a replica with no history.


----------



## Steve B.

Just bit the bullet and placed an order for a Flyxii FR-322. Added a seat post collar, plus headset. Haven't heard back from the company yet as it's late in China. 

I really liked the look of this frame having previewed how others have built them. It'll be replacing a 10 yr. old Tomasso carbon, whose look I always hated. It took a lot of searching to find the size I wanted (55.5 - 56 ETT), as well as matte black plus BSA b-bracket, plus the ability to run Di2 in the future. 

After much hemming and hawing decided on a mechanical 105 group. Almost went Ultegra Di2, then saw and read reviews of complaints about shifting with full fingered gloves, and realized I've been using STI since '95, so a no brainer to install and use. As well, it seems the 105 group is so close to Ultegra in terms of function that it made sense. Added a set of Mavic CXP-33/105 wheels to go along and will now have a spare set of wheels for 3 road bikes. 

And I have vacation time in August to recieve, build and ride.

BIG QUESTION though. It's a carbon steerer, so any guidelines about torgue for the aluminum stem, as well as where to source a reasonable 1-1/8 x 1.5 headset as well as what I think is supposed to be a compression fitting for the headset (if it doesn't come with one). Thanks in advance.


----------



## DCash

Steve B. said:


> BIG QUESTION though. It's a carbon steerer, so any guidelines about torgue for the aluminum stem, as well as where to source a reasonable 1-1/8 x 1.5 headset as well as what I think is supposed to be a compression fitting for the headset (if it doesn't come with one). Thanks in advance.


The head set, stem, and seat post clamp should have torque ratings on them, usually 5-10nm. I highly recommend the Ritchey 5nm Torque key. Don't forget the carbon assembly paste. 

The vendor should be able to supply a headset. If not the Ritchey WCS Tapered has the right angles. There is also a FSA headset but I don't recall if it's the 30 or 40.


----------



## The-DarKris

DCash said:


> The head set, stem, and seat post clamp should have torque ratings on them, usually 5-10nm. I highly recommend the Ritchey 5nm Torque key. Don't forget the carbon assembly paste.
> 
> The vendor should be able to supply a headset. If not the Ritchey WCS Tapered has the right angles. There is also a FSA headset but I don't recall if it's the 30 or 40.


It's the 40


----------



## tlg

Steve B. said:


> It took a lot of searching to find the size I wanted (55.5 - 56 ETT), as well as matte black


The finish on the Flyxii matte frames is really nice. I love mine.



> After much hemming and hawing decided on a mechanical 105 group. Almost went Ultegra Di2, then saw and read reviews of complaints about shifting with full fingered gloves


That's odd. I don't see what the complaints would be. I ride year round, with lobster claw winter gloves and glove liners in the winter. No issues shifting.




> as well as where to source a reasonable 1-1/8 x 1.5 headset as well as what I think is supposed to be a compression fitting for the headset (if it doesn't come with one). Thanks in advance.


 Mine came with the headset and compression plug.


----------



## fmendes

tlg said:


> That's odd. I don't see what the complaints would be. I ride year round, with lobster claw winter gloves and glove liners in the winter. No issues shifting.
> 
> 
> Mine came with the headset and compression plug.


I had problems (my hands could not feel the levers with gloves) but I think this would also be a problem with 105 groupset. And my old bike's shifters are really old (2007).

Agree about the headset. My frame is Ican. Had a problem with the fork (seemed cracked so I never used). Sent to them and asked a new fork+headset. They're sending to me, no further questions. Hopefully is a common practice among these companies.


----------



## Steve B.

tlg said:


> The finish on the Flyxii matte frames is really nice. I love mine.
> 
> That's odd. I don't see what the complaints would be. I ride year round, with lobster claw winter gloves and glove liners in the winter. No issues shifting.
> 
> 
> Mine came with the headset and compression plug.


Not knocking Di2, I think it's a great system. I think the general comment that I picked up on, on a few reviews, was that it's somewhat easier to miss the buttons with gloves, as opposed to the much more pronounced lever movements of the large brake and smaller inner level of mechanical. I suspect it's just a learning curve and if you start in the spring/summer and get used to it with short gloves, no problem. Since I ride in full gloves a lot in the NE US, I pondered the issue more then if I lived in L.A. That and the big IF of a battery or other electronic failure, which are admittedly rare from what I'm reading, made me decide to go luddite and stay with what I've used for 20 years. Saved a grand as well. 

I ordered the headset from Flyxii and will see what it comes with.


----------



## Steve B.

DCash said:


> The head set, stem, and seat post clamp should have torque ratings on them, usually 5-10nm. I highly recommend the Ritchey 5nm Torque key. Don't forget the carbon assembly paste.
> 
> The vendor should be able to supply a headset. If not the Ritchey WCS Tapered has the right angles. There is also a FSA headset but I don't recall if it's the 30 or 40.


Thanks for the info.


----------



## fmendes

DCash said:


> The vendor should be able to supply a headset. If not the Ritchey WCS Tapered has the right angles. There is also a FSA headset but I don't recall if it's the 30 or 40.


For my Ican I bought this kit:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LUCQR0O/

Fits fine, but I'm returning because Ican is sending me a headset.


----------



## tomme86

Anyone have experience with the Dengfu R06 ?


----------



## rfengineer

Does anyone have any feedback about the Workswell WCB-R-085 or the WCB-R-107? I am interested in these frames but haven't seen many people talking about them. Thanks!
Alan


----------



## untarded

rfengineer said:


> Does anyone have any feedback about the Workswell WCB-R-085 or the WCB-R-107? I am interested in these frames but haven't seen many people talking about them. Thanks!
> Alan


I have no experience with these frames but just received the WCB-R-081 yesterday and am very disappointed with the finish of the frame.


----------



## BigPoser

untarded said:


> I have no experience with these frames but just received the WCB-R-081 yesterday and am very disappointed with the finish of the frame.


The pictures are hard to see precisely, and I will say that the bottom bracket looks strange, but also looks like that "piece" will come right out. As far as the rest of the finish, to my knowledge that is what a UD matte carbon finish looks like. I can say that my WW066 looks very similar and I've seen many other name brand frames that have similar finishes when the carbon is exposed. My Focus Cayo to name one. I wouldn't be too worried about it whatsoever.


----------



## untarded

The finish has a striped (most notable in the first picture) and marbled appearance. In some spots it's very course as if it weren't sanded properly. 

All the UD matte frames (& handlebars) I've ordered to date have been a perfect matte black finish.


----------



## bruto

Those other frames were probably painted, because I don't think one can lay out lots of UD carbon fiber patches perfectly flat and in perfect alignment with each other so that they reflect light uniformly

It's a feature


----------



## meeeeep

The-DarKris said:


> So since there is no "Chinese carbon gravel bike" thread (and since there aren't a lot of gravel specific frames) I thought I'd post this here:
> 
> I was looking around for a carbon thru axle gravel frameset although I was originally looking for cyclocross frames since not many all-road/gravel specific frames are mainstream. However once I specified gravel I actually came across two frames that piqued my interest, more-so the latter frame.
> 
> The first one is from Hongfu and is there FM028. The two things that strike me about this frame are: it's a re-design of their previous FM028 road bike but with disc brakes, and it's aero. Tire clearance is stated between 28-35mm which is good, but it left me wanting more.
> 
> View attachment 315336
> 
> 
> Link: 2016 NEW full carbon aero road gravel frame
> 
> In comes the Carbonda CFR505 which is embracing the "road plus" movement. It's not "aero" but it looks similar to the Jamis Renegade carbon. It also seems to have rack/fender mounts although I think it's mostly for fenders. The main selling point for me is that they state max. tire clearance as 700x40c/650x47b.
> 
> I've been looking for a carbon frameset designed around 700c/650b mainly because coming from a "broke" college student I wanted a truly versatile bike that I was comfortable riding in most places save an mtb bike park. Unless no other manufacturer releases something similar within the next 3-4 months I will 100% be picking this up and reviewing it.
> 
> View attachment 315337
> 
> 
> Link: CFR505 - Gravel - Carbonda Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.


That looks like a cervelo c5/c3 frame.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


----------



## Steve B.

OK, easy question

Flyxii FR322 en-route. I'm using some parts from my current carbon, namely the Ritchey alloy seat post.

Do I really need to use carbon paste on this post ?. I didn't 10 years ago when I put the post into the existing carbon, never checked it, didn't know carbon/aluminum could corrode, knew about alu and steel, yes. Lubed it lightly 10 years ago, it came out today with no issue and no corrosion. As well had zero slippage over the decade. 

So carbon paste ?


----------



## MMsRepBike

Steve B. said:


> OK, easy question
> 
> Flyxii FR322 en-route. I'm using some parts from my current carbon, namely the Ritchey alloy seat post.
> 
> Do I really need to use carbon paste on this post ?. I didn't 10 years ago when I put the post into the existing carbon, never checked it, didn't know carbon/aluminum could corrode, knew about alu and steel, yes. Lubed it lightly 10 years ago, it came out today with no issue and no corrosion. As well had zero slippage over the decade.
> 
> So carbon paste ?


You didn't need carbon paste because it was a good fit and the clamp was good.

Your lubing was sufficient to prevent the corrosion you speak of that would happen.

Aluminum and carbon are at the opposite sides of the galvanic scale, they will for sure react if the aluminum isn't anodized and if there's an electrolyte present.

Carbon paste? Yes. It will ensure your seat doesn't slip down and it will also provide the corrosion protection. It's cheap insurance.


----------



## Steve B.

MMsRepBike said:


> You didn't need carbon paste because it was a good fit and the clamp was good.
> 
> Your lubing was sufficient to prevent the corrosion you speak of that would happen.
> 
> Aluminum and carbon are at the opposite sides of the galvanic scale, they will for sure react if the aluminum isn't anodized and if there's an electrolyte present.
> 
> Carbon paste? Yes. It will ensure your seat doesn't slip down and it will also provide the corrosion protection. It's cheap insurance.


Good advice, thanks.


----------



## ms6073

untarded said:


>


Images make it difficult to discern what subtle changes in the UD matte finish you are concerned about, but I will say if that is a PF30 bottom bracket shell, the finish on the inside of the BB face leaves much to be desired. While it does not look smooth and without a closer image of the opposite side of the bottom bracket, I would suspect that what appears to me in the image as severe irregularity in the inner race texture, will prevent proper installation of PF30 bearing cups, and probably cause a lot of creaking down the road.


----------



## rfengineer

Dealing directly with Workswell/Dengfu etc, they want to add a percentage to use paypal. Is this what everyone has done? Workswell says they will take a bank transfer, but I am not sure about this option. How have you paid?


----------



## Steve B.

New question.

On a Flyxii FR322 frame, the rear brake cable looks like it may not need a full length cable housing. The front entry is lower down on the TT and the rear entry on top of the TT.

I could be wrong, but if the entry stops have stops for the end caps, is it a clean run for the bare cable ?. 

Or am I going to need full housing and potentially O rings to avoid housing rattle ?. 

Thanks in advance


----------



## fmendes

Steve B. said:


> New question.
> 
> On a Flyxii FR322 frame, the rear brake cable looks like it may not need a full length cable housing. The front entry is lower down on the TT and the rear entry on top of the TT.
> 
> I could be wrong, but if the entry stops have stops for the end caps, is it a clean run for the bare cable ?.
> 
> Or am I going to need full housing and potentially O rings to avoid housing rattle ?.
> 
> Thanks in advance


If is anywhere like ICAN, you can run bare cable through the frame, no need for housings. Mine came without these guides, but there's a housing inside the frame, so just feed the cable in one end and pull on the other.


----------



## fmendes

I finally concluded my road bike. Used ICAN frame and wheels. Customer support was very good (Bella), although the first fork came with something that looked like cracks (two of these):
View attachment 315633

After talking to ICAN, they sent me other fork (along with headset that didn't come with first shipping).

Finishing seemed good. Cables passed through holes in the frame with no major issues. The front derraileur cable requires a piece of housing under the BB as there is no open slot for the cable. I kind of like it.

Only rode 30 miles so far, but this bike seems much stiffer, faster and lighter than my 2008 Giant OCR C2. In fact the bike is so stiff that I got a flat by hitting a pebble that would never cause any fuss on my old bike.

Wheels came trued, but spokes were not very tight so after a first ride I needed to true them again. Not a big deal, but worth to mention.
View attachment 315634
View attachment 315635


Shimano Ultegra 6800 groupset and handlebar integral with stembar from Alibaba:
2015 Newest TXCH Full Carbon Road Bike Handlebar Integrated With Stem /Road Car to / Siamese Bicycle Integrate Handlebar-in Bicycle Handlebar from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

More updates down the road (literally).


----------



## ericTheHalf

I bought direct from Dengfu, about 5 years ago and used PayPal. There was a percentage to use PayPal, and it was a bit high but I was expecting it so not alarmed. I have no idea where my receipt is or I would tell you what it was.

As a side note, the first ride on that bike, an FM028, was Aug. 21, 2011 and I have just about 15K miles of bad roads on it. It's been great.





rfengineer said:


> Dealing directly with Workswell/Dengfu etc, they want to add a percentage to use paypal. Is this what everyone has done? Workswell says they will take a bank transfer, but I am not sure about this option. How have you paid?


----------



## ms6073

rfengineer said:


> they want to add a percentage to use paypal.


Last time I bought frames from Dengfu, I used PayPal and readily accepted the 2.5% surcharge which gave me the piece of mind. Unlike a bank transfer, I knew that if I had a problem, I could depend on PayPal's buyer protection to get a refund for the next 45-days.


----------



## colnagoG60

Steve B. said:


> Not knocking Di2, I think it's a great system. I think the general comment that I picked up on, on a few reviews, was that it's somewhat easier to miss the buttons with gloves, as opposed to the much more pronounced lever movements of the large brake and smaller inner level of mechanical. I suspect it's just a learning curve and if you start in the spring/summer and get used to it with short gloves, no problem. Since I ride in full gloves a lot in the NE US, I pondered the issue more then if I lived in L.A. That and the big IF of a battery or other electronic failure, which are admittedly rare from what I'm reading, made me decide to go luddite and stay with what I've used for 20 years. Saved a grand as well.
> 
> I ordered the headset from Flyxii and will see what it comes with.


(Glue + Sand) + Di2 =


----------



## Steve B.

Got my Flyxii Fr322 last week, did some initial build up, then awaited parts (in-line cable adjusters - Doh !, plus carbon paste). Did most of it in 2 days, finished last night, rode at 7AM this morning. Nothing like a N1 to motivate you !.

Easy pleasy build, though it's been 9 year since I last assembled a N1. Different cable routing on the 11sp 5800 shifters, but the internet set me straight. The internal cable routing was simple, much easier then my old Klein !.

So: 
- Flyxii FR-322 size 56. 
- New Mavic CXP33 wheels 32h, DT DB spokes, 105 hubs 
- Existing Conti GP 4 Season, 23mm's
- Headset and seatpost collar from Flyxii. Had LBS do initial steerer cut. 
- Existing Easton h-bar, 42cm, Ritchey 100mm stem, Ritchey seat post, Selle saddle, 105 SPD-SL pedals, Profile cages, all off older carbon bike, 
- New 105 shifters, brakes, F & R derailer, crank (172.5 34/50), b-bracket, cassette (11-23), chain. 

Went with new 105 5800 components to save some money after almost going to Ultegra Di2. Felt that 105 was best bang for buck currently.

Rides great. I was surprised at how smooth. Turns nicely, not too stiff over bumps, even running 23mm tires at 105-110 psi. Did note that I could not fit a wheel with a Conti GP4S in size 25mm, which is actually a 26mm. Wheel would not go into dropout with tire inflated. 

Set up was mostly identical to my older carbon and my Soma Smoothie, though will lower the h-bar/stem an inch and ride it for a bit. 

Can't wait to put more miles on this, it's a very nice ride and after 25 years of cycling. it's nice to know I can dial in a fit.

EDIT: As ride report with 100 miles over 3 rides. Very stable, had it on a downhill at 35 mph, no shimmy, handled very neutral and stable. A very stiff frame in terms of power transferred to motion. The bike just takes off, possibly more then any road bike I've ridden since the days I owned a Klein. Stiffer ride then my carbon Tomasso, but possibly the wheels - Mavic CXP-33's with 32 spokes, plus Conti GP4S 23mm tires at 105-110PSI. But overall feeling a stiffer riding bike, which is OK as I'm a Clydesdale. Very enjoyable ride overall.


----------



## R-Works

Anybody familiar with sequel cycling (http://www.sequelcycling.com)

I'm having my eyes on a new super light frameset to replace a broken Merida Reacto and really like the DCRF11 (DCRF11-COMPANY HOMEPAGE)









It has some features of the tarmac but it looks like an 'original' design. Only problem, they're producing frame no bigger than 54cm at the moment. But still, maybe in the future...


----------



## DCash

Steve B. said:


> Got my Flyxii Fr322 last week...
> 
> Can't wait to put more miles on this, it's a very nice ride and after 25 years of cycling. it's nice to know I can dial in a fit.


A very nice entry into the Black Bike Club!

Can you post a picture of the tire clearance issue?


----------



## Steve B.

DCash said:


> A very nice entry into the Black Bike Club!
> 
> Can you post a picture of the tire clearance issue?


OK, once I got home and tried the wheel with the Conti GP4S 25mm, it worked. Probably as I had the chain, derailer, brakes, etc... all functional.

Here's some pic's. The 25mm, which actually measures as 26mm, is tight, but goes on when inflated and does have sufficient clearance.

Top photo is the 25mm, lower is the 23mm


----------



## .je

untarded said:


> ... am very disappointed with the finish of the frame.


The rest of the frame is well painted with matte paint, but some areas seem not to have paint. I have a frame with many areas like this too; some of it didn't get paint. Did anything come of your concern?


----------



## untarded

.je said:


> The rest of the frame is well painted with matte paint, but some areas seem not to have paint. I have a frame with many areas like this too; some of it didn't get paint. Did anything come of your concern?


No, they didn't even respond to my complaint and I don't have time to deal with it right now. I've resigned to having to get it painted myself.

It actually looks like it was painted with a very light coat of paint that didn't fully cover the frame and from the striping appears to have been wrapped in foam before it dried. A few spots on the frame are rough as though it wasn't even sanded thoroughly.


----------



## 5DII

Anyone know if the chinarello F8 have the same geometry as the real ones?


----------



## The-DarKris

Made a new discovery: 2016 NEW T800 FULL CARBON 40MM FLAT MOUNT GRAVEL BIKE FRAME--Angle Sport Equipments CO., LTD.

Have not heard of this company, however this frame looks close to the 3T Exploro. Since I have not heard of the company till now I would hesitate at getting this, however it looks like a good option.


----------



## Steve B.

The-DarKris said:


> Made a new discovery: 2016 NEW T800 FULL CARBON 40MM FLAT MOUNT GRAVEL BIKE FRAME--Angle Sport Equipments CO., LTD.
> 
> Have not heard of this company, however this frame looks close to the 3T Exploro. Since I have not heard of the company till now I would hesitate at getting this, however it looks like a good option.


Not seeing prices or geometry. 

That makes it a PITA to make any choices.


----------



## The-DarKris

Steve B. said:


> Not seeing prices or geometry.
> 
> That makes it a PITA to make any choices.


They also had it on eBay w. price + geo: 2016 Carbon T700 Fiber Cyclocross CX Road 700c Gravel Adventure Bike Frameset | eBay


----------



## bio

Hi there, I am looking about Tarmac sl4 or sl5 copy frame but it's too many sites and manufacturers, anybody knows about something about safe and quality frames ???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bio

Any info about this seller guys ?

http://m.dhgate.com/product/2014-2015-black-red-full-carbon-road-bike/201859015.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ghettocop

Stop posting links to counterfeits.


----------



## bio

ghettocop said:


> Stop posting links to counterfeits.


What do you mean ??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fmendes

bio said:


> What do you mean ??


I think he means something like this (my emphasis):


> Made a new discovery: 2016 NEW T800 FULL CARBON 40MM FLAT MOUNT GRAVEL BIKE FRAME--Angle Sport Equipments CO., LTD.
> 
> Have not heard of this company, however *this frame looks close to the 3T Exploro*. [...]


There are other examples. Just like is unethical to post links to software piracy in forums, also is to post links to counterfeits.


----------



## DCash

bio said:


> Any info about this seller guys ?
> 
> 2016 New T1000 Ud 11r Sagan Camouflage Tar Limited Edition Full Carbon Road Bike Bicycle Frame Frames Complete Frameset Sell Giant Merida Bike Frame For Sale Discount Bike Frames From Liuquanfu, $485.79| Dhgate.Com


DHGate sells counterfeit frames. This is a counterfeit tarmac. It is built with the primary focus of looking like a tarmac, not riding like one. If you want a tarmac; save up more money and buy a tarmac.

If you are looking for an open mold aero frame that you can customize and make your own we are happy to help. But...



ghettocop said:


> Stop posting links to counterfeits.


----------



## rfengineer

*Annoyed with Hong Fu*

Got my hf-fm028 yesterday. Everything looks really good. This frame can have either thru axle or quick release in the rear, depending on the hangers used. I wanted thru axle plus a thru axle spare. I got them to tell me through email I would get two sets of hangers, both thru axle. 

Well, I got one of each, thru axle and quick release. She says another thru axle set would be 10 bucks, plus shipping I guess. I really don't want to push this issue until I get the whole bike built up and I don't have any bigger issues, but this is annoying.
Alan


----------



## .je

.je said:


> The rest of the frame is well painted with matte paint, but some areas seem not to have paint. I have a frame with many areas like this too; some of it didn't get paint. Did anything come of your concern?


have received and assembled this frame, it is nicely built, but I do have one issue.

On the left hand side, where the shifter cable hole enters the frame, it is missing a retaining cup that holds the cable housing, and the hole is too big. The cable housing falls freely into the frame. Since it is not held back, the front derailleur is not operational. All else fails I would have to glue the ferrule in the frame, which is a **** solution.

Can anything be done about this? Is there an insert? 

I would appreciate any advice or help


----------



## mjb152

rfengineer said:


> Got my hf-fm028 yesterday. Everything looks really good.


be interesting to hear about your build, and see pictures, this is the frame I'm interested in. I'm considering a ultegra di2 and hydrualic disk brakes.
I'm still riding the FM-039 I bought 5 years ago, which has been fantastic


----------



## The-DarKris

fmendes said:


> I think he means something like this (my emphasis):
> 
> 
> There are other examples. Just like is unethical to post links to software piracy in forums, also is to post links to counterfeits.


I don't know/think it was stated towards me. Only reason I say that is because no where in the link that I posted is the frame marketed as a counterfit. In addition in looking at the frames side by side they are distinctly different.




Steve B. said:


> Not seeing prices or geometry.





Steve B. said:


> That makes it a PITA to make any choices.




Found the Geo chart from the ebay store:










EDIT: Well after thorough investigation of the geometry chart I can confirm this is not a counterfit of the 3T Exploro. That being said I took it a step further and found that the geometry is almost completely identical to the Open Cycles UP. I say "almost" because there are subtle differences in the geo. of the different sizes. So subtle that I spent about 20 minutes making sure that it wasn't exactly the same for each frame size. So I still don't know if it can still be considered a "counterfit" but take that as you will.

Open Cycles UP:


----------



## avria

Hey guys been lurking around RBR for a long time now decided to join in on the discussion for the chinese carbon.

I've been looking at various chinese carbon companies but most don't really have in the size that i need in the frames that i'm interested in.

I'm looking to get an aero frame (something along the lines of merida reacto / canyon aeroad) yet most of the sizes stop at a 56, i do understand that aero frames will generally be smaller due to the aggressive fit, however i'm towering at 1.96M (6' 5")

the only one that comes close was a dengfu R05/06 (size 59, but the geometry is rather unfavourable with a short seat tube, and i'm unsure about how tall can the seat post go without risking failure)

Ideally, i'm looking at a 580mm TT with a 600mm ST, but i figured i can compromise a fair bit with the seat post height.

do you guys have any idea which trusted companies does XL frame size (59-60)?


----------



## aske

OoiTY said:


> I cut the leftover tube again to get a closer look. Side note, the tube is a pain to cut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Terrible cut, but I wasn't wasn't trying to be accurate and was just freehanding it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crush test.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like fiberglass to me. After being crushed, the small piece of tube deforms with a bit of effort, but it still holds its shape for the most part.


Any updates on this? Got two frames now where both steerer tubes are somewhat like this. They are from different manufacturers. Been riding the first one for a while now without any issues. But might affect long term use. Experienced any issues?


----------



## fmendes

avria said:


> Hey guys been lurking around RBR for a long time now decided to join in on the discussion for the chinese carbon.
> 
> [...]
> 
> I'm looking to get an aero frame (something along the lines of merida reacto / canyon aeroad) yet most of the sizes stop at a 56, i do understand that aero frames will generally be smaller due to the aggressive fit, however i'm towering at 1.96M (6' 5")
> 
> [...]
> 
> Ideally, i'm looking at a 580mm TT with a 600mm ST, but i figured i can compromise a fair bit with the seat post height.
> 
> do you guys have any idea which trusted companies does XL frame size (59-60)?


I'm 6'-4" and am using an ICAN 58mm frame, AERO 007, similar to this but with seat post separated:
Aero Intregrated Road Frame - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.

The seatpost has a 10 cm ruler in the middle of the seatpost, and I use it in 6 cm. If the difference between our heights is all in the legs, you would use the seatpost on 3.5. That would mean 3.5 cm before the minimum insertion.

I don't know how to post pictures, so this is how mine looks:
https://flic.kr/p/KCGLhs

Also the frame seems to look somewhat like the one you're looking for. On my Flickr there's photo showing the bike from the side.


----------



## Steve B.

fmendes said:


> ould use the seatpost on 3.5. That would mean 3.5 cm before the minimum insertion.
> 
> I don't know how to post pictures, so this is how mine looks:
> https://flic.kr/p/KCGLhs
> .


Adding photo's is simple as BTW.

Reply - Go Advanced - Upload Photo's - a dialog box opens, upper right Add Files - Select files and go find the photo (I typically copy it to the desktop) - Upload Files and press done.


----------



## avria

fmendes said:


> I'm 6'-4" and am using an ICAN 58mm frame, AERO 007, similar to this but with seat post separated:
> Aero Intregrated Road Frame - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.
> 
> The seatpost has a 10 cm ruler in the middle of the seatpost, and I use it in 6 cm. If the difference between our heights is all in the legs, you would use the seatpost on 3.5. That would mean 3.5 cm before the minimum insertion.
> 
> I don't know how to post pictures, so this is how mine looks:
> https://flic.kr/p/KCGLhs
> 
> Also the frame seems to look somewhat like the one you're looking for. On my Flickr there's photo showing the bike from the side.



that's a nice looking bike indeed and the geometry seems to be fitting quite nicely (given that its 58 cm TT and ST). by any chance you included those fork spacers was to increase the stack height?


----------



## thefoxtooth

Hey, does anyone have any experience with Flyxii's current website? I'm about to plunk down for a cross frame, but they have no eBay store and I want to do some research before PayPalling money over to the Wild East. 

Consensus seems to be that Flyxii are good to deal with, but their cart doesn't work properly and I want to exercise some caution.


----------



## fmendes

avria said:


> that's a nice looking bike indeed and the geometry seems to be fitting quite nicely (given that its 58 cm TT and ST). by any chance you included those fork spacers was to increase the stack height?


Yes, the spacers were to increase height of handlebar. But since this is full carbon fork, I had been advised to avoid using many spacers, as the bending moment causes excessive wear of the headset. Since then I'm gradually putting spacers above the stem.


----------



## Steve B.

thefoxtooth said:


> Hey, does anyone have any experience with Flyxii's current website? I'm about to plunk down for a cross frame, but they have no eBay store and I want to do some research before PayPalling money over to the Wild East.
> 
> Consensus seems to be that Flyxii are good to deal with, but their cart doesn't work properly and I want to exercise some caution.


Did a frame/fork, plus headset and seat post collar purchase direct from Flyxii in late July.

Basically you choose the frame and options, accessories, etc... add to the cart, checkout, fill in the details for shipping address, e-mail, etc... Place order. I just tried part of this process and it works OK. 

It'll give you a total price, you then head to PayPal, list the Hotmail.com address and make a payment for that amount.

I admit I had never done any purchase in this method (and rarely use PayPal), but it all went smoothly. The order got processed in a day and shipped. I inquired via e-mail and they replied with shipment details. They ship however to the USPS in the US, and the tracking number provided by Flyxii was good to track once the box hit the US. I had some anxious days while it processed thru US Customs in NYC (4 days), but once cleared it was at the local PO in a day (I'm NYC area)

Total time from order to arrival was 12 days. 

All was good with the packaging, the bike (FR322) was the easiest build I've done, bike is a WONDERFUL ride and bike, 350 miles later.

As note after I had placed the order but immediately realized they did not readily indicate which replacement rear derailleur hanger fit the bike. In my e-mail asked to add that to the charge and provide one, they just threw it in for free. Nice folks to deal with via e-mail.


----------



## Steve B.

fmendes said:


> Yes, the spacers were to increase height of handlebar. But since this is full carbon fork, I had been advised to avoid using many spacers, as the bending moment causes excessive wear of the headset. Since then I'm gradually putting spacers above the stem.


I think I've read somewhere 25-30mm is a safe stack height for spacers on carbon forks.


----------



## bvber

thefoxtooth said:


> but they have no eBay store


I think they do.
http://stores.ebay.com/flyxiibike?_trksid=p2047675.l2563
Bike Part items in cfbstore store on eBay!



> and I want to do some research before PayPalling money over to the Wild East.
> 
> Consensus seems to be that Flyxii are good to deal with, but their cart doesn't work properly and I want to exercise some caution.


I bought a frame set from them directly last year. Things went smoothly.


----------



## thefoxtooth

Steve B. said:


> Did a frame/fork, plus headset and seat post collar purchase direct from Flyxii in late July.
> 
> Basically you choose the frame and options, accessories, etc... add to the cart, checkout, fill in the details for shipping address, e-mail, etc... Place order. I just tried part of this process and it works OK.
> 
> It'll give you a total price, you then head to PayPal, list the Hotmail.com address and make a payment for that amount.
> 
> I admit I had never done any purchase in this method (and rarely use PayPal), but it all went smoothly. The order got processed in a day and shipped. I inquired via e-mail and they replied with shipment details. They ship however to the USPS in the US, and the tracking number provided by Flyxii was good to track once the box hit the US. I had some anxious days while it processed thru US Customs in NYC (4 days), but once cleared it was at the local PO in a day (I'm NYC area)
> 
> Total time from order to arrival was 12 days.
> 
> All was good with the packaging, the bike (FR322) was the easiest build I've done, bike is a WONDERFUL ride and bike, 350 miles later.
> 
> As note after I had placed the order but immediately realized they did not readily indicate which replacement rear derailleur hanger fit the bike. In my e-mail asked to add that to the charge and provide one, they just threw it in for free. Nice folks to deal with via e-mail.


Hey thanks, this is very helpful! I'm pulling the trigger tonight, I think. I'll post some pix of the build as I go along…


----------



## thefoxtooth

bvber said:


> I think they do.
> http://stores.ebay.com/flyxiibike?_trksid=p2047675.l2563
> Bike Part items in cfbstore store on eBay!
> 
> 
> I bought a frame set from them directly last year. Things went smoothly.


Thanks to you too! Always nice to hear more feedback.

CORRECTION: I knew they had an eBay store; I suppose what I meant to say was that they didn't have the frame I wanted I the eBay store, and I wasn't 100% sure the site was connected with the genuine ebay store. But I feel much better now!


----------



## fmendes

Steve B. said:


> I think I've read somewhere 25-30mm is a safe stack height for spacers on carbon forks.


Mine was twice that. Now is about 45mm. When I get used to it, will lower 10mm more until I get a good spacing.


----------



## avria

Steve B. said:


> Did a frame/fork, plus headset and seat post collar purchase direct from Flyxii in late July.
> 
> Basically you choose the frame and options, accessories, etc... add to the cart, checkout, fill in the details for shipping address, e-mail, etc... Place order. I just tried part of this process and it works OK.
> 
> It'll give you a total price, you then head to PayPal, list the Hotmail.com address and make a payment for that amount.
> 
> I admit I had never done any purchase in this method (and rarely use PayPal), but it all went smoothly. The order got processed in a day and shipped. I inquired via e-mail and they replied with shipment details. They ship however to the USPS in the US, and the tracking number provided by Flyxii was good to track once the box hit the US. I had some anxious days while it processed thru US Customs in NYC (4 days), but once cleared it was at the local PO in a day (I'm NYC area)
> 
> Total time from order to arrival was 12 days.
> 
> All was good with the packaging, the bike (FR322) was the easiest build I've done, bike is a WONDERFUL ride and bike, 350 miles later.
> 
> As note after I had placed the order but immediately realized they did not readily indicate which replacement rear derailleur hanger fit the bike. In my e-mail asked to add that to the charge and provide one, they just threw it in for free. Nice folks to deal with via e-mail.


how's the build quality of the flyxii bike? additionally is the weight of the frame they mention true to what they indicated?

i'm interested in their FR-316 frame, but the frameset weight being 1700+/-50g ( 54cm frameset ) is kinda off putting and makes me wonder what grade of Toray carbon that they are using (given that dengfu managed to do their fm098 at 1300g odd)


----------



## avria

fmendes said:


> Mine was twice that. Now is about 45mm. When I get used to it, will lower 10mm more until I get a good spacing.


yeah i saw that photo you linked and that was some tower you had there! i think once you get to the ideal stack height you might want to cut off the excess tube on the top


----------



## pianopiano

*Cable routing issue*

Hello everyone. I've finally gotten around to building up my LTK118 frame (life gets in the way sometimes), and I'm having a little difficulty in figuring out the cable routing.

The problem is that there are not any built in cable stops in the holes where the rear brake and both derailleur cables enter the frame. There are only holes that are large enough for the entire cable housing, ferrules included, to slide right through. I just assumed that there would be stops built in, as there's nothing there to hold the housing in place. I have no idea how to route the cables now. The frame does come with a cable stop where the brake cable exits the frame (see pics)

I've searched this and other forums now, but didn't see anyone else who'd encountered the same issue.

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Steve B.

avria said:


> how's the build quality of the flyxii bike? additionally is the weight of the frame they mention true to what they indicated?
> 
> i'm interested in their FR-316 frame, but the frameset weight being 1700+/-50g ( 54cm frameset ) is kinda off putting and makes me wonder what grade of Toray carbon that they are using (given that dengfu managed to do their fm098 at 1300g odd)


Build quality is fine, alignment is spot on, the cable stops/entries were all good. They provide "straws" for the internal cable routing, which was painless. I had to sand down the bottom of the fork in order to get the lower fork race on, but that was easy and the headset installed easily. No slipping on the seatpost. 

As I said, easiest build I've ever done.


----------



## .je

piano said:


> The problem is that there are not any built in cable stops in the holes where the rear brake and both derailleur cables enter the frame. There are only holes that are large enough for the entire cable housing, ferrules included, to slide right through. I just assumed that there would be stops built in, as there's nothing there to hold the housing in place. I have no idea how to route the cables now. The frame does come with a cable stop where the brake cable exits the frame (see pics)
> 
> I've searched this and other forums now, but didn't see anyone else who'd encountered the same issue.


How hard did you look? I posted the identical problem in post #650... on the last page. 

I contacted the vendor with the pictures you see in that thread, and they say they're sending another insert that I can push in. It isn't air mail like the frame, so no 6-day delivery. I hope it actually arrives and works, and the communication of the missing part is clear, or else I'll want a warranty replacement or refund. 

The other alternative is to epoxy in a plastic cable ferrule permanently, which might make re-routing even more of a pain in the arse.

LT has to know that their process is missing these parts in assembly, and that the cable stops don't make it out the door, since it is so common... to them. This defect hasn't affected _any _other frame from _anyone_ in the past. We pay hundreds of dollars USD for these, there has to be better followup than "we'll mail you a little cup insert in a month or so".


----------



## MMsRepBike

.je said:


> The other alternative is to epoxy in a plastic cable ferrule permanently, which might make re-routing even more of a pain in the arse.


No, that is never an alternative, that's how you destroy a frame.

This is the alternative:

Jagwire Alloy Housing Stop > Components > Cables & Housing > Cable Guides | Jenson USA


----------



## fmendes

Steve B. said:


> Adding photo's is simple as BTW.
> 
> Reply - Go Advanced - Upload Photo's - a dialog box opens, upper right Add Files - Select files and go find the photo (I typically copy it to the desktop) - Upload Files and press done.



Yes, I tried that. This was the outcome:


fmendes said:


> I finally concluded my road bike. Used ICAN frame and wheels. Customer support was very good (Bella), although the first fork came with something that looked like cracks (two of these):
> View attachment 315633
> 
> [...]


So I just gave up.


----------



## Steve B.

Works here

Using Chrome browser.

Maybe contact forum managers ?


----------



## pianopiano

.je said:


> How hard did you look? I posted the identical problem in post #650... on the last page.
> 
> I contacted the vendor with the pictures you see in that thread, and they say they're sending another insert that I can push in. It isn't air mail like the frame, so no 6-day delivery. I hope it actually arrives and works, and the communication of the missing part is clear, or else I'll want a warranty replacement or refund.
> 
> The other alternative is to epoxy in a plastic cable ferrule permanently, which might make re-routing even more of a pain in the arse.
> 
> LT has to know that their process is missing these parts in assembly, and that the cable stops don't make it out the door, since it is so common... to them. This defect hasn't affected _any _other frame from _anyone_ in the past. We pay hundreds of dollars USD for these, there has to be better followup than "we'll mail you a little cup insert in a month or so".


It's obvious that I didn't look hard enough! :blush2: 

I dropped by a friends shop, and I was lucky as he had a few alloy housing stops, similar to the Jagwire product that MMsRepBike had mentioned, and they fit! I count myself lucky. Hopefully you get your situation sorted out soon. Thanks for the reply.


----------



## Judgment

*Someone help me understand the Chinese carbon frame market.*

Mods, please move this if I put it in the wrong place. 

I'm leaning hard away from buying a no-name frame from a Chinese seller or an eBay re-seller. This is because I assume that what is available from these sources is a lower quality product. However, I'm not very well educated on the subject, and I am finding it difficult to find good information on the subject. I would appreciate any opinions on this topic, especially informed opinions, preferably with links to information that supports your position. 


You know how in some industries, manufacturers will sell an off-brand version of a well known product in order to take advantage of sales at a lower price point than their namesake products command? The idea is that they lose less sales on price without tarnishing the brand-name equity they have built. 

If this were the case with bike frames, I would jump on it. IF the same factory in Taiwan that makes Trek's Emonda bike was selling that frame out the back door and calling it B-Monda for half the price, I would get one. I'd be tempted even if the bike was available without Trek's official knowledge or support, but if Trek was cool with it because they wanted to sell the frame at a lower price point, to me it's a no-brainer. 

I don't think this is the case. I think that the Big Bike Guys are using foreign factories that only produce frames for them and those frames are not available outside their network. Thus they can maintain a stranglehold on quality control and design. 

This means that the argument that "all the bikes are either coming from China or Taiwan" is nonsense. Just 'cause all bourbon comes from Kentucky doesn't make all bourbon awesome. 

So, my fear would be that a Chinese off-brand frame is a knock-off designed to look, but not necessarily perform, like a nice carbon fiber bike. 

Now, I have heard some sentiments to the effect that carbon is carbon is carbon, give or take a pound or two. So, let's say that these off-brand Chinese manufacturers are using tried and true bike geometries to make bikes using techniques and materials of a quality similar to what a name brand manufacturer might use on their lower-priced carbon bikes. Is this the case? Is such a frame worth buying?

What else don't I know?

I've been trying to find answers to these questions on my own with limited success. Any input is welcome. 

Oh, and nothing I wrote here is meant to be insulting to anyone who has decided to purchase a frame that falls into this category. If I have described the situation inaccurately or in a way that offends you guys, I apologize. I definitely want to hear from you. 

thanks, 

Josh


----------



## Jay Strongbow

6,112 posts and counting in the stickeys above wasn't enough for you?


----------



## Judgment

Jay Strongbow said:


> 6,112 posts and counting in the stickeys above wasn't enough for you?


I have have a fully functioning frontal lobe. I saw the stickies above and have read a lot of the posts. However, I submit that the stickies above are not doing a very good job of answering the specific question(s) I asked. It's a lot of "I bought this frame and here's what I'm doing with it." and back. and forth. and back and forth. For, apparently, over 6000 posts. If the information I'm looking for is in there it is buried deep. 

An effective sticky of this nature should go something like this:

1.) Someone, or a group of someones, presents their opinion along with whatever evidence they feel they have to support their position. Then a discussion follows during which people break down the individual assertions listed in the initial position and discuss their relative validity. 

2.) At some point someone, or a group of someones, presents the opposite position along what whatever evidence they feel they have to support their position. Then people that have a dog in the fight break down the points listed in the opposite position and discuss their relative validity. 

3.) Ideally this discussion would be theoretical and/or non-personal. three thousand accounts of Chinese bike builds really don't address the relevant question, and posts like "BOB is the suxx cuz he bought a bike from Shenzhen" are equally useless, because they are insulting, encourage arguing instead of useful discussions, and also do not address the relevant issues. 

4.) Finally, and most importantly, IMHO, someone should close the damn thread sometime after all the relevant issues have been discussed, but before the thread has 6,112 posts. Then make it a sticky. That way, people like me can come along, find the information and benefit from it without having to wade through an ocean of fairly useless non-information to get to the good bits. 

Obviously, after having spent a significant amount of time looking for the information I need in those bloated monstrosities at the top of the page, I decided this was a better route. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong. But hey, thanks for taking ten seconds to make a snarky and insulting comment. We are off to a good start. 

Look guys, I get it. You've been at this forum for ten years, and you see a lot of noobs come in, ask the same stupid questions you see every three days and then leave. I have been a long-time member of at least one other forum on a different subject, and I have had the same reaction. 

For what it's worth, I try to do my due diligence before I ask a question, and I try to ask good questions. If you feel the need to respond with a "learn to use the search function" post fine. I'm a big boy and I'm not gonna cry about it. But 90% of the time, at least in my case, I have already been searching for this information unsuccessfully, here and other places on the internet.


----------



## No Time Toulouse

The reality about online 'reviews' is that they mostly come in 2 varieties:

#1: person has just bought item, and is ecstatic about it!

#2: item has failed to meet expectation, and buyer is p!$$ed as hell about it!!!!


----------



## Judgment

No Time Toulouse said:


> The reality about online 'reviews' is that they mostly come in 2 varieties:
> 
> #1: person has just bought item, and is ecstatic about it!
> 
> #2: item has failed to meet expectation, and buyer is p!$$ed as hell about it!!!!


True enough. I say don't sticky those. FWIW, I think there should be a separate "Chinese Carbon" section of the forum where all those posts can reside, at the top of which should be the the sticky, started by an elder statesman of the forum, similar to, say, Funknuggets' treatise on how to shave your legs. 

Whoever writes it should be someone who has been following this issue for a long time, knows all the ins and outs, likes to write well-written and informative forum posts and has enough pull around here to get something stickied. Then let people argue for a few pages and shut it down. 

Can a sticky that contains every post with the word "Chinese" in it really be called a sticky anyway?


----------



## Neolithic

I don't have a dog in this fight nor authoritative links, just my hunch developed over years of lurking various boards, etc. So take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt.

Where the variety of discussion and subsequent difficulty in searching out an answer comes from is that both sides are partially right.

Because all CF frames are made in China (or adjacent enough) all the tooling and expertise is there. This leads to two major outcomes: Companies wishing to capitalize on existing names/brands and companies wishing to capitalize on tooling/expertise.

After making S-Works frames (for example) they might wish to supplement their income by making the same looking frame but cheaper and selling directly. Or they might make the same quality frame but with a unique style and unfamiliar name and selling directly.

Those seem to be the general findings on the Internet. The high quality knock-offs don't seem to exist and the low quality unfamiliar names don't seem to last long.

Reading through the 6000+ posts should, eventually give you a sense of what those higher value unfamiliar names are.


----------



## Judgment

Neolithic said:


> I don't have a dog in this fight nor authoritative links, just my hunch developed over years of lurking various boards, etc. So take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt.
> 
> Where the variety of discussion and subsequent difficulty in searching out an answer comes from is that both sides are partially right.
> 
> Because all CF frames are made in China (or adjacent enough) all the tooling and expertise is there. This leads to two major outcomes: Companies wishing to capitalize on existing names/brands and companies wishing to capitalize on tooling/expertise.
> 
> After making S-Works frames (for example) they might wish to supplement their income by making the same looking frame but cheaper and selling directly. Or they might make the same quality frame but with a unique style and unfamiliar name and selling directly.
> 
> Those seem to be the general findings on the Internet. The high quality knock-offs don't seem to exist and the low quality unfamiliar names don't seem to last long.
> 
> Reading through the 6000+ posts should, eventually give you a sense of what those higher value unfamiliar names are.


Thanks. I've read this several times. Also, point taken about having to read through the monster threads.


----------



## Randy99CL

Nashbar sells carbon frames for not much more than the imports. They have a real warranty with excellent customer service and shipping usually takes less than a week.
Bike Frames | Mountain, Road & Cyclocross | Bike Nashbar

They often run sales and today it's 23% off so that $599 frame is $462.

I've owned 3 (2 steel and 1 alloy) Nashbar frames and they've all been great, especially for their low prices.
And you can read the reviews.


----------



## Judgment

Randy99CL said:


> Nashbar sells carbon frames for not much more than the imports. They have a real warranty with excellent customer service and shipping usually takes less than a week.
> Bike Frames | Mountain, Road & Cyclocross | Bike Nashbar
> 
> They often run sales and today it's 23% off so that $599 frame is $462.
> 
> I've owned 3 (2 steel and 1 alloy) Nashbar frames and they've all been great, especially for their low prices.
> And you can read the reviews.


Thanks. I'll check 'em out.


----------



## RL7836

The issue with Chinese carbon is quality (duh - like you didn't know that). Name brands have a reputation to protect so they do whatever is necessary to ensure the quality is up to their standards (extra inspections, destructive & non-destructive testing, etc). The further you move away from a name brand, the more risk you take - check out the gazillion fly-by-night Chinese companies on fleabay, then read some of the horror stories (some with pics) in the Chinese stickies up above.

So, where on that continuum of risk-taking do you fall? Name brand who will do anything to protect their reputation (ie: Trek, Specialized, etc) or Chinese name brand (ie: Yoeleo & a few others) who mostly try to protect their name or fly-by-night back door company who will be gone by the time you have an issue - aka: full on risk-junkie willing to trade quality/safety for dollars?

With carbon, it's fairly easy to get molds & paint schemes to mimic what a name brand looks like. Getting the right fiber layup coupled with the right resins & curing protocol followed by adequate testing & quality assurance - is something else.

No one on this forum is going to be able to give you a definitive answer - everything is anecdotal. You can find specific examples to support where on the quality/risk continuum you want to be - but it's your choice & your risk.


----------



## Migen21

No Time Toulouse said:


> The reality about online 'reviews' is that they mostly come in 2 varieties:
> 
> #1: person has just bought item, and is ecstatic about it!
> 
> #2: item has failed to meet expectation, and buyer is p!$$ed as hell about it!!!!


You forgot these:

# 3: The person was given the product at no cost or significant discount in exchange for favorable reviews (happened right here on these very forums)

# 4 : The person is a paid writer who writes reviews for companies pay them or their employer.

# 5: The person is a youtube sensation who gets free or reduced price products, or is outright being paid by a sponsor to use their products in their videos.


----------



## t-wood

Here is a link to an article on the subject. Of course they get a lot of money from advertisers and this article is good for the big names but it seems legit.
To Catch a Counterfeiter: The Sketchy World of Fake Bike Gear | Bicycling


----------



## Judgment

t-wood said:


> Here is a link to an article on the subject. Of course they get a lot of money from advertisers and this article is good for the big names but it seems legit.
> To Catch a Counterfeiter: The Sketchy World of Fake Bike Gear | Bicycling


Good article. Thanks. I learned a new term: "third shift" counterfeiting.


----------



## duriel

u benn trolled


----------



## Judgment

duriel said:


> u benn trolled


hmm? I don't understand this statement. Would you care to elaborate?


----------



## MR_GRUMPY

Buying a Chinese made Carbon is like buying a Chinese made "fake" Gibson Guitar.
It might be great.........It might be "good enough" for your needs......It might be garbage.

The cheaper the frame is, the less QC there is.


----------



## ghettocop

I'm glad that it seems the cycling public has moved beyond the whole "it is the same frame, made in the same factory, just minus the branding" that was so popular a few years ago. It was very hard to convince anyone that they had not just received the deal of a lifetime, and their "FM062" or whatever is identical to the Cervelo or other major brands popular bike it copies.


----------



## Steve B.

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Buying a Chinese made Carbon is like buying a Chinese made "fake" Gibson Guitar.
> It might be great.........It might be "good enough" for your needs......It might be garbage.
> 
> The cheaper the frame is, the less QC there is.


Not sure what "QC" stands for, but

Bad analogy. 

There are 30 or more so-called manufacturers of branded carbon road bikes. Probably 5 of them make their own frames in their own factory. I know of: Trek, Orbea, Time, Carl Strong and not sure he still does, maybe Look ?. 

The other 27 or so source thru Chinese factories. 

It's not like everybody brands their bike like a guitar manufacturer might brand their guitars as "Hand made in the USA" or some such, there are no illusions that a Colnago or Cannondale isn't made in China. All these frames are, is Chinese manufactured carbon with a particular paint and logo scheme. Many manufacturers do design their own geometries and frame characteristics. Some have agreements that keep those characteristics in-house. Many don't and there's ultimately nothing that keeps the Chinese factories from selling these frames to local dealers as non-branded, non-painted, yet identical frames, for world-wide sales to the public. 

These are not counterfeit frames, these are just a separate market of carbon frames. There are true counterfeit frames and these are typically obvious with paint and logo's that are slightly different then an original, as well as geometries that vary from the original. Some are not built to the same standard. Many of the non-branded frames are built to the same standards though, and there's a wealth of experiences of folks who've purchased, built and put extensive mileage on these bikes with zero issues. 

Am I comfortable with the idea of riding such a frame - yes. I don't think the typical Chinese independent frames are deliberately built too light or with structural defects to save weight or money. I think they realize it's in their best interest to build a reliable product and I think these are simply the same frames you could get from Nashbar, Bikes Direct, Stradalli, Scattante (Performance), Tommaso, etc... without a logo. The multiple years of general experience of many users seems to bear this out.


----------



## t-wood

Steve B. I think your being very optimistic about these frames. I don't think you can lump all of those frames into one class. Open Mold frames made for Performance or Nashbar and quite a few others are made from open molds but they also send people down to decide what carbon and layups to use and then QC those frames. That is completely different from frames made using the whatever carbon is available with no real regard for layup or strength...even though they use the same molds.

I don't work in a Chinese factory so I could be completely wrong...even though my favorite line from a movie is "yeah, and maybe I'm a Chinese jet pilot"


----------



## ghettocop

Steve B. said:


> Not sure what "QC" stands for, but
> 
> Bad analogy.
> 
> There are 30 or more so-called manufacturers of branded carbon road bikes. Probably 5 of them make their own frames in their own factory. I know of: Trek, Orbea, Time, Carl Strong and not sure he still does, maybe Look ?.
> 
> The other 27 or so source thru Chinese factories.
> 
> It's not like everybody brands their bike like a guitar manufacturer might brand their guitars as "Hand made in the USA" or some such, there are no illusions that a Colnago or Cannondale isn't made in China. All these frames are, is Chinese manufactured carbon with a particular paint and logo scheme. Many manufacturers do design their own geometries and frame characteristics. Some have agreements that keep those characteristics in-house. Many don't and there's ultimately nothing that keeps the Chinese factories from selling these frames to local dealers as non-branded, non-painted, yet identical frames, for world-wide sales to the public.
> 
> These are not counterfeit frames, these are just a separate market of carbon frames. There are true counterfeit frames and these are typically obvious with paint and logo's that are slightly different then an original, as well as geometries that vary from the original. Some are not built to the same standard. Many of the non-branded frames are built to the same standards though, and there's a wealth of experiences of folks who've purchased, built and put extensive mileage on these bikes with zero issues.
> 
> Am I comfortable with the idea of riding such a frame - yes. I don't think the typical Chinese independent frames are deliberately built too light or with structural defects to save weight or money. I think they realize it's in their best interest to build a reliable product and I think these are simply the same frames you could get from Nashbar, Bikes Direct, Stradalli, Scattante (Performance), Tommaso, etc... without a logo. The multiple years of general experience of many users seems to bear this out.


Oh brother.


----------



## .je

Glad to hear everything went together and you have a bike that can actually be used!

The vendor promised to send something like that to me, but I didn't wait, and went to my LBS for one of those housing stops. The outer cable's plastic end cap didn't fit into it, but a couple of wraps of tape on the cable did, and everything is working great now. Thanks #MMsRepBike! It's great to have a FD again!

BTW this LTK118/R077 rides and handles fantastic.


----------



## MR_GRUMPY

qual·i·ty con·trol

noun

noun: quality control

a system of maintaining standards in manufactured products by testing a sample of the output against the specification.

It might be "good enough" for your needs


----------



## duriel

Go to China, find a bike building shop, and find out. Report back to us on your return.


----------



## davidka

Unfortunately, you do not get to understand the Chinese carbon frame market and this is what makes it the Chinese carbon frame market. Bikes sold in the US and Europe must pass safety testing, Chinese generic products do not and their makers don't care to make them that well, this is why they are cheap. 

They aren't the same as branded products and we don't get to know what's different. When you find out what's different, it's never good and you have no recourse. 

Steve B. doesn't know what he's talking about and is giving bad advice.


----------



## Judgment

davidka said:


> Unfortunately, you do not get to understand the Chinese carbon frame market and this is what makes it the Chinese carbon frame market. Bikes sold in the US and Europe must pass safety testing, Chinese generic products do not and their makers don't care to make them that well, this is why they are cheap.
> 
> They aren't the same as branded products and we don't get to know what's different. When you find out what's different, it's never good and you have no recourse.


That is a sound bite to remember. That really helped me slot this information into the correct file in my brain.  Thanks.


----------



## Easyup

Judgment said:


> That is a sound bite to remember. That really helped me slot this information into the correct file in my brain.  Thanks.


You are using good judgment. I did vendor qualifications (albeit not cycling) in the PRC for 5 years and most of the cautions in this thread well represents my experience.


----------



## Judgment

Easyup said:


> You are using good *judgment*. I did vendor qualifications (albeit not cycling) in the PRC for 5 years and most of the cautions in this thread well represents my experience.


No pun intended?  Good to know. Support from multiple sources is always nice. I bet you have some interesting stories about Chinese factories. Thanks.


----------



## fmendes

Surely not all carbon frames are born alike. But given the number of good/bad experiences we see here, one may have a very good idea of what works and what does not.

In my humble opinion, no factory would be careless with manufacturing and care for customer support - it simply doesn't make sense. So in the worst case, look for good experiences with customer support. QC (now clarified as quality control) will not be great, and to be honest, for the price, I feel fine with that. If you want 100% of all parts inspected, you have to pay for that quality. If not, sounds fair to me that you need to do some of the work yourself.

In my case, I found minor cracks on the fork upon receipt. Took pictures and sent to the customer support. They solved my problem without a cost. Would this mean that this is a bad supplier? To me tells the opposite: if their fabrication method is good enough, they spend less on verifying 100% of items and repairing the ones eventually out of specs.

But honestly I doubt anyone in this forum knows what actually happens inside one of these Chinese factories. We can only tell what had worked and what had not. And, to prove my point, I see far more cases of frames that worked than frames that did not.


----------



## fmendes

Steve B. said:


> Works here
> 
> Using Chrome browser.
> 
> Maybe contact forum managers ?



Trying again:







:thumbsup:
Thanks!


----------



## Doug.

The bike looks splendid, hope it's as good as it looks.


----------



## alexdi

Can I solicit an opinion about aero frames?

I'd like to build one with disc brakes and thru-axles. Frames that fit this requirement seem to be unicorns. I've found these:

*Miracle RD525*
http://www.miraclebikes.com/product...iscroadbikescarbonframe2017bestroadd20043103/

*Tideace FM-R19 NK1K*
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/29e...bon-mountain-bike-frame-650b/32612048231.html

*Orge OG-CF026*
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...60478648830.html?spm=a2700.7724857.0.0.q5tVcT

*Cootia T1000* (?)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Red...rameset-carbon-bicycle-frame/32655506563.html

I'm more interested in the first two. The Orge frame strikes me as a bit pseudo-aero. I'd prefer a conventional seatpost and I wouldn't sacrifice it for a marginal aero benefit. With the Cootia, it's not clear if it actually uses thru-axles. 

The Tideace frame is a clone of a Cipollini, though I think it's fair to post because you can get it without the branding. The Miracle superficially resembles a lot of aero frames. 

Any thoughts on the above or alternatives?


----------



## bruto

One of my previous posts in this thread elaborates on Miraclebike's inability to produce a reliable disc brake fork or atleast stand behind a product that failed.
In short, look at other merchants.


----------



## alexdi

bruto said:


> One of my previous posts in this thread elaborates on Miraclebike's inability to produce a reliable disc brake fork or atleast stand behind a product that failed.
> In short, look at other merchants.


That's another concern. Some vendors offer the same frame in QR and thru-axle versions. It's not clear if they're starting with a beefed-up fork or just repurposing the standard model.


----------



## fmendes

alexdi said:


> Can I solicit an opinion about aero frames?
> 
> Any thoughts on the above or alternatives?


Is a cyclocross out of the table? 
2017 CX Flat mount shimano frame AC388 - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.


----------



## ericTheHalf

Hey The-DarKris, 

From over on WeightWeenies, if you haven't seen it already. Carbonda Gravel Bike 1x11 Di2 - Pedal Room




The-DarKris said:


> In comes the Carbonda CFR505 which is embracing the "road plus" movement. It's not "aero" but it looks similar to the Jamis Renegade carbon. It also seems to have rack/fender mounts although I think it's mostly for fenders. The main selling point for me is that they state max. tire clearance as 700x40c/650x47b.
> 
> I've been looking for a carbon frameset designed around 700c/650b mainly because coming from a "broke" college student I wanted a truly versatile bike that I was comfortable riding in most places save an mtb bike park. Unless no other manufacturer releases something similar within the next 3-4 months I will 100% be picking this up and reviewing it.
> 
> View attachment 315337
> 
> 
> Link: CFR505 - Gravel - Carbonda Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.


----------



## alexdi

fmendes said:


> Is a cyclocross out of the table?
> 2017 CX Flat mount shimano frame AC388 - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.


I'm not sure what the difference is, really, though I've never seen an aero frame with that moniker. This one looks nice, albeit not aero.


----------



## bruto

alexdi said:


> That's another concern. Some vendors offer the same frame in QR and thru-axle versions. It's not clear if they're starting with a beefed-up fork or just repurposing the standard model.


I don't think T-A fork needs to be any beefier than a QR one as long as they're both disc
it's more of a problem with manufacturing process and QC in general
and attitude towards customers

some brands make sub-400g disc brake forks (road, but still)
if these can't do a working fork with 50g more material, eff that company


----------



## fmendes

alexdi said:


> I'm not sure what the difference is, really, though I've never seen an aero frame with that moniker. This one looks nice, albeit not aero.


Cyclocross (CX) have more clearance for bigger tires and sometimes a more relaxed geometry. Usually brakes are either cantilever or disk (which seems to be your preference).

What I don't understand is the requirement for a thru-axle. Seems incompatible with the aero requirement.


----------



## alexdi

fmendes said:


> What I don't understand is the requirement for a thru-axle. Seems incompatible with the aero requirement.


This may be misplaced, but I don't trust discs with conventional dropouts. There's a lot of offset torque.


----------



## fmendes

alexdi said:


> This may be misplaced, but I don't trust discs with conventional dropouts. There's a lot of offset torque.


I never thought about that. My MTB uses regular QRs with discs, never had a problem. But TAs exist for a reason and I believe may be it. Since I'm not that great in mtb, won't worry immediately.


----------



## aske

Judgment said:


> Mods, please move this if I put it in the wrong place.
> 
> I'm leaning hard away from buying a no-name frame from a Chinese seller or an eBay re-seller. This is because I assume that what is available from these sources is a lower quality product. However, I'm not very well educated on the subject, and I am finding it difficult to find good information on the subject. I would appreciate any opinions on this topic, especially informed opinions, preferably with links to information that supports your position.
> 
> 
> You know how in some industries, manufacturers will sell an off-brand version of a well known product in order to take advantage of sales at a lower price point than their namesake products command? The idea is that they lose less sales on price without tarnishing the brand-name equity they have built.
> 
> If this were the case with bike frames, I would jump on it. IF the same factory in Taiwan that makes Trek's Emonda bike was selling that frame out the back door and calling it B-Monda for half the price, I would get one. I'd be tempted even if the bike was available without Trek's official knowledge or support, but if Trek was cool with it because they wanted to sell the frame at a lower price point, to me it's a no-brainer.
> 
> I don't think this is the case. I think that the Big Bike Guys are using foreign factories that only produce frames for them and those frames are not available outside their network. Thus they can maintain a stranglehold on quality control and design.
> 
> This means that the argument that "all the bikes are either coming from China or Taiwan" is nonsense. Just 'cause all bourbon comes from Kentucky doesn't make all bourbon awesome.
> 
> So, my fear would be that a Chinese off-brand frame is a knock-off designed to look, but not necessarily perform, like a nice carbon fiber bike.
> 
> Now, I have heard some sentiments to the effect that carbon is carbon is carbon, give or take a pound or two. So, let's say that these off-brand Chinese manufacturers are using tried and true bike geometries to make bikes using techniques and materials of a quality similar to what a name brand manufacturer might use on their lower-priced carbon bikes. Is this the case? Is such a frame worth buying?
> 
> What else don't I know?
> 
> I've been trying to find answers to these questions on my own with limited success. Any input is welcome.
> 
> Oh, and nothing I wrote here is meant to be insulting to anyone who has decided to purchase a frame that falls into this category. If I have described the situation inaccurately or in a way that offends you guys, I apologize. I definitely want to hear from you.
> 
> thanks,
> 
> Josh


The best source I've found has been these articles on Bikebizz and especially the links in the bottom to the entire article collection on the "bicycle-stuff-made-in-china" matter. The articles on open molds vs counterfeit and on manufacturer types are really good.

When a fake isn't - open molds vs. the knock-offs | Bicycle Business | BikeBiz


----------



## Judgment

aske said:


> The best source I've found has been these articles on Bikebizz and especially the links in the bottom to the entire article collection on the "bicycle-stuff-made-in-china" matter. The articles on open molds vs counterfeit and on manufacturer types are really good.
> 
> When a fake isn't - open molds vs. the knock-offs | Bicycle Business | BikeBiz


This series of articles is interesting. Even though I have decided that this is not the route for me, it's worth reading. I'm currently wading through a massive .pdf I got from this link. Thanks, 

Josh


----------



## Nathb

Does anyone know who makes this frame + model?










or this one?


----------



## .je

Nathb said:


> Does anyone know who makes this frame + model?


This is the LTK118 or R077 from Velobuild that you can see many people talking about in this thread. Once the build is sorted out, it is great. If the sorting is not for you, having Ribble do it can be a headache-saver.


----------



## Nathb

.je said:


> This is the LTK118 or R077 from Velobuild that you can see many people talking about in this thread. Once the build is sorted out, it is great. If the sorting is not for you, having Ribble do it can be a headache-saver.


I missed that as the Ribble looks to have a much shorter headtube on the picture I posted, it may just be the angle though?

Thank you!


----------



## ashmk2

Not been on in a while... anyway.... This frame appaz can take discs..... looks exiting..
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...60481885466.html?spm=a2700.7724838.0.0.JwwO7H


----------



## redstarcap

I've been reading chinese carbon thread from I guess version 4.0
There's always questions about is it safe? Is this wrong? Is this normal?
I've found an article, A quite long one, that I would recommend anyone who wants to buy carbon frames from china to read

Faking It | Bicycle Business | BikeBiz

Basicly it explains about factories who build the frames. 

For myself, I've ridden my zhongwei R-002 for a year, and my chinese 50mm tubular wheelset for almost 2 years. I have no issue with them other than few times need to adjust the spoke tension.
I saw some of my friends still riding their farsports wheels for 2-3years, no issue

Generally, I will stick to companies who had been to the business long enough like hongfu, dengfu, farsports. And avoid the newly launched product. Just stick to the basics


----------



## ashmk2

yeeeees, but... ive had three, all of which were not the "standard" models, and all have been great... i could build that frame with etap and trp cable actuated hydros.... ooo gets me all moist...


----------



## ridersyko

Some interesting discussions with this thread. With the Chinese route you will never know 100% what the deal is but any thing from any manufacturer could have an issue. I once purchased a specialized Allez and not long after the fork cracked! These things happen…

My point is if you’re interested in building a Chinese frame do it or go buy a branded one! Just get on with it. I’d also take the advise of if you can try to source one from familiar Chinese suppliers.
I’ve had my Velobuild VBR027 coming up 12 months now. I’ve managed to do 2.5k Miles on it in that time and its still fine. I’ve had a few cosmetic issues with it but ive ridden it and ridden it & ridden it. Its great it still works and I’ve had a fair few miles on it, I built it and I don’t regret it I’m glad I decided to do what I did a life lession if nothing else.
I’ll upload a pic of it on how it looks, when I find one to upload.


----------



## ridersyko

Here is my Velobuild VBR027

She stands at 2.5k miles now, nealy12 months old.

Longest ride was 150 miles
Great on the climbs

It now has a mix of 10/11speed Ultegra
Shimano RS81 Carbon Wheels


----------



## OoiTY

Does anyone know if there's a generic dropout hanger for chinese carbon bikes or help identify which one I need? I'm on a ICANN AC059 frame and I've only got this image of it already mounted on the bike; https://i.imgur.com/RazOwOO.jpg The vendor that sold me the bike on Aliexpress wants $30 for a replacement which seems really expensive for a hangar, so any suggestions would be appreciated.


----------



## tlg

OoiTY said:


> Does anyone know if there's a generic dropout hanger for chinese carbon bikes or help identify which one I need? I'm on a ICANN AC059 frame and I've only got this image of it already mounted on the bike; https://i.imgur.com/RazOwOO.jpg The vendor that sold me the bike on Aliexpress wants $30 for a replacement which seems really expensive for a hangar, so any suggestions would be appreciated.


$30 isn't "that" expensive. They range from $20-$40.

You could try Wheels Mfg Derailleur Hangers
They don't have the ICANN listed but I'm sure if you contacted them they'd know. If not, if you took pictures they could probably identify it.


----------



## OoiTY

Thanks, admittedly I'm spoiled by the cheap prices you can find on Aliexpress - there are sellers offering two hangers for $10 there! 
That said, thanks for the link, I looked through what's available there and from the looks of it, this seems to be the closest shape to what I might need. Wheels Manufacturing Derailleur Hanger 96


----------



## tlg

OoiTY said:


> Thanks, admittedly I'm spoiled by the cheap prices you can find on Aliexpress - there are sellers offering two hangers for $10 there!
> That said, thanks for the link, I looked through what's available there and from the looks of it, this seems to be the closest shape to what I might need. Wheels Manufacturing Derailleur Hanger 96


Don't just guess by what you think looks like what you might need. Contact them. Hangers may look similar but not be correct.


----------



## bruto

$30 is a bit over the top even for a machined hanger, let alone a stamped part (like most of Chinese ones)
OoITY, there's quite a selection of these hangers on Aliexpress, look for lots like this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-p..._1&btsid=8bb2f6a7-0159-4615-b6b0-c60cea229544


----------



## sharepointalex

Hi Guys,

Seriously considering buying one of these chinese carbon frames - looked at the Hongfu F8 Avenger and I quite like it.

I've recently converted my hybrid to a road bike having just got into cycling (wishing i'd bought a road bike!!).

I now want a new bike for summer and I would love a Giant Propel but can't justify the cost.

I've pinged velomail who say they can customise an 053 frame in the same Propel blue colours with Velomail logos to match the Giant one.

The thing is - are they really that good? All I read about is them breaking and some have broken whilst riding?! Is it too cheap to be true? They do look awesome and a lot of you seem to have had good experiences.

I really want to build a bike up anyway so it's a good opportunity.

Anything I should be aware of (i'm in the UK btw).

Cheers

Alex


----------



## TSur

sharepointalex said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Seriously considering buying one of these chinese carbon frames - looked at the Hongfu F8 Avenger and I quite like it.
> 
> I've recently converted my hybrid to a road bike having just got into cycling (wishing i'd bought a road bike!!).
> 
> I now want a new bike for summer and I would love a Giant Propel but can't justify the cost.
> 
> I've pinged velomail who say they can customise an 053 frame in the same Propel blue colours with Velomail logos to match the Giant one.
> 
> The thing is - are they really that good? All I read about is them breaking and some have broken whilst riding?! Is it too cheap to be true? They do look awesome and a lot of you seem to have had good experiences.
> 
> I really want to build a bike up anyway so it's a good opportunity.
> 
> Anything I should be aware of (i'm in the UK btw).
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Alex


Alex,
I assume you mean the HongFu R8 FM169. I have been running this frame for the season and think it is great. However, I can not compare it to any big brands since I have not owned one... So I guess I don't know for sure. This is my 2nd "Chinese carbon frame" that I built. The first was from velobuild.com vb-r-022. The R8 is just more aggressive/aero and feels better to me. Oscar from this forum is who helped me in choosing this frame with his reviews and having an S-Works Venge in the past. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_YNky5Y4Gs 

So far I have about 2250 miles on the frame and I'm not the norm "cyclist build," so I guess you can say I have put the frame to a good test so far. (I am 6'2" 215lbs) You can see my rides here if you want: https://www.strava.com/athletes/6530575 I have also done a good amount of "sprinting" and it has held up just fine to my almost 100kg self smashing the pedals.


----------



## Steve B.

Not trying to change your mind, as I'm a user of a Flyxii Chinese road frame (love it), but as you are in the UK, also look at the Ribble bikes and frames.

In general and unless you are walking parts over, it's usually more cost effective to buy a built bike. Reason is the "manufacturer" gets a much better deal on parts and wheels in bulk and can pass those savings on. Ribble is a particularly good deal and if I were in the UK I would have gone this route instead of building from parts. 

There are exceptions to this, wheel choice being an example. I could not use (or want to) any of the "factory" wheels as I'm a heavy rider and would generally kill a low spoke count wheel, thus was going custom 32 spoke wheels anyway. 

For my build, the frame was $400 shipped, the wheels $400 and the parts $430. I had the h-bar, stem, seat post and seat, so that saved about $150 or so. If I hadn';t had those parts, a new complete build from Ribble would have been the better deal over a custom build.


----------



## bruto

The-DarKris said:


> Found the Geo chart from the ebay store:
> 
> 
> View attachment 315940


Stumbled upon a drawing of this frameset's fork on Alibaba:
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/chinese-Full-Carbon-Gravel-Bike-Fork_60544135992.html

that clearance and beefiness... I already want it for my existing bike


----------



## TimberWolfQX

*Hello there!*

Hey there,
QX from Singapore here. Recently got interested in building my own bike, and gosh, this thread has been really informative! Thanks for bringing me up to speed with bike developments - it's a really deep rabbit hole, and there was so much that I didn't know I didn't know.

I wanted to build a lightweight, simple bike for leisurely riding and commuting, something that could let me ride without worrying too much about the terrain or maintenance. Also, I'm a lot more comfortable with flat bars (blasphemy!) so I'll be speccing the bike with them.
*
Here's my proposed build!*
Frame: Miraclebikes CX028/GR029 cyclocross/gravel (they're the same, I checked) 1080+400g
Headset: NECO H373 (supplied) 80g
Seatpost: TOSEEK Seatpost 190g
Stem: KALLOY UNO 7 60mm 88g
Handlebar: TOSEEK flat handlebar 105g
BB: SRAM BB30 61g

Crankset: SRAM Force 1 42T BB30 542g
Cassette: SRAM XG1180 10-42T 315g
Rear Derailleur: SRAM Rival 1 Long Cage 267g
Shifter: SRAM Apex 1 flat bar 142g
Cables: Jagwire Road Pro set ~180g?
Chain: SRAM PC-1170 256g
Pedals: AEST Chance

Brakes: TRP Spyre Flat Mount, 160mm rotor ~300g?
Brake Lever: AEST YBL70A-02

Wheels: X-Bike Ultralight 30x23mm Clincher 1356g
Tires: Schwalbe Pro One Tubeless 28mm 600g

Total weight: ~6500g

What do you guys think? Is there anything super wrong, or that I've missed out? I know I could probably go lighter with the frame, but I wanted to ensure a certain level of durability.

You might also have noticed some unfamiliar brands like TOSEEK, AEST and KALLOY. These are Chinese/Taiwanese brands that I found on Taobao.com (which is a chinese-language marketplace). *If you guys would like me to write a little guide on the vocabulary to use when searching on Taobao, let me know! I'd be happy to contribute to this community.*

Cheers
QX


----------



## bruto

my 028 fork (thru-axle) from the very same merchant/manufacturer is in 3 pieces now, QX: Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
didn't even last 1000km
consider a different frameset or atleast fork


----------



## MMsRepBike

bruto said:


> my 028 fork (thru-axle) from the very same merchant/manufacturer is in 3 pieces now, QX: Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
> didn't even last 1000km
> consider a different frameset or atleast fork


----------



## TimberWolfQX

Holy cow! That looks like it snapped clean off!
I'm a mechanical engineer myself, and that's a highly unusual failure mode - you'd expect failures to happen anywhere along the length of the fork. Having both at the exact same place means that there might have been a manufacturing defect at that location for both sides. 

Personally, I'd really have loved a Hongfu HF-FM028, but last I heard from them, they ended production of the model. I really really love the curves, and if anybody can point me to one, I'd be really glad.

There's another frame, the ICan RD01, that has really similar curves, but according to them, they only support up to 700x25C, which sadly rules it out for me 

Do you have any other forks to recommend? I really love the look of the HF-FM028 and ICan RD01 frame fork.


----------



## MMsRepBike

TimberWolfQX said:


> Holy cow! That looks like it snapped clean off!
> I'm a mechanical engineer myself, and that's a highly unusual failure mode - you'd expect failures to happen anywhere along the length of the fork. Having both at the exact same place means that there might have been a manufacturing defect at that location for both sides.
> 
> Personally, I'd really have loved a Hongfu HF-FM028, but last I heard from them, they ended production of the model. I really really love the curves, and if anybody can point me to one, I'd be really glad.
> 
> There's another frame, the ICan RD01, that has really similar curves, but according to them, they only support up to 700x25C, which sadly rules it out for me
> 
> Do you have any other forks to recommend? I really love the look of the HF-FM028 and ICan RD01 frame fork.



No, no it is not. This is not the first, nor even the fifth China bike with disc brakes I've seen with snapped forks. This was happening, in the exact same manner, to Enve forks made in Vietnam as well. This is not highly unusual, in fact it's considered normal now. This is how disc forks break.

Can you really not learn your lesson from these pictures? You want one for yourself now? I have a feeling you're not really an engineer.


----------



## svard75

That snapped fork almost looks like the entire concept of open mold. The top part is the same for disk or rum brake and bottom is molded in another mold then joined. Does the top part have the hole for rim brake?

Even if it were due to the added stress of disk brakes it wouldn't Crack so perfectly. There would be jagged edges and pieces of fibre. 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## bruto

yep, a thru-hole


----------



## bruto

TimberWolfQX said:


> Do you have any other forks to recommend? I really love the look of the HF-FM028 and ICan RD01 frame fork.


I would've recommended the Trigon fork if you aren't hell bent on having thru-axle, because it's massive, overbuilt and Trigon is a reputable manufacturer, but the only place I know that stocked them, is out of them: https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;product=137803;menu=1000,4,21
upd: found more of them
https://www.cycledivision.co.uk/products/trigon-50-off-sale/trigon-xco8a-2013-carbon-disc-fork
https://www.mob-bikes.de/trigon/3994-trigon-xc08a-disc-carbon-cyclocross-gabel.html
Worth asking the sellers if they'll ship to Singapore and deduct VAT for you

Mine was replaced with D779 model from here: http://webbuilder2.asiannet.com/manager/e-Catalog/CtmCatalog/1088/1088_004/Default.html
It was actually made by a company named Shenzhen YiErLan, but apparently they're affiliated with Aprebic (making stuff for them).
Hasn't broken yet, but I haven't been riding the CX bike as much since putting my MTB together  It is heavier then fk028, though, so, fingers crossed, is more durable as well.

this looks like mine: Carbon thru Axle Cyclocross Fork 15 100mm Disc Brake UD Matt 1 1 8" 1 1 2" | eBay
Full Carbon thru Axle Cyclocross Fork 15 100mm Disc Brake Matt 1 1 8" 1 1 2" | eBay
but I have no way of knowing if it was made in the same place with the same process and QA - you could try asking the seller

I've also seen brand name forks pop up on ebay now and then, sometimes reasonably priced - you could look for those: Whisky (regularly mistyped as 'whiskey'), Jamis ECO fork and others

For the record, I went to look at the cx028 frame and it appears to be a different model than the fk028 from my photos. But Miraclebike still sucks (refused accountability for fork's failure, I had to haggle for a partial compensation), so eff them


----------



## TimberWolfQX

Bruto: Thanks! I'll go check them out. I'm glad you're OK even after the fork failure, but it has given me some cause to think twice. You might find the stuff below interesting. I guess, in a sense, that lack of warranty is a risk you take, concomitant with the lower prices. However, I have heard elsewhere too that they have made good with others, so it's a toss up. 

MMsRepBike: I'm sorry you think that way, but do hear me out.

I thought, initially, that the failure mode was through repeated vertical loading. Given that carbon fails in a brittle manner, I would've expected (without knowledge of the layup pattern) that there would be a roughly 45-degree failure plane along the line of maximum Von-Mises stress. The fact that the forks failed almost perpendicularly was unexpected in the vertical loading case.

Now that you mentioned brake torque, it does make more sense, as the disc brakes apply a torque to the fork, and hence the fork is loaded in bending. A 90-degree break makes more sense here, but you'd also expect that failure of one side would cause a twisting failure on the other side too (and give a angled break instead of perpendicular), so the fact that both sides broke clean perpendicularly is interesting to me.

Engineer enough for you?  I mean no offence, and really, I do wish to learn from you guys. Since you think that chinese carbon forks can't cut the mustard, are there any brands or models you'd recommend?

QX


----------



## bruto

It could be that the left fork leg snapped first and the other one just followed because of the increased (and now twisting) load
Had you asked me in advance, I would've tried to time the interval for sure, but you hadn't 
I also think that it wasn't a single failure but rather the fork was already weakened (possibly delaminated inside) from repeated stress of riding (and braking) over rough terrain. The braking that broke it was gentle, it's seen harder before that.
You can have the remains for all I care, I still have them


----------



## TimberWolfQX

Haha definitely possible. It's all conjecture to me at this point. It's definitely possible that fatigue failure could occur, or that there might have been manufacturing flaws that led to stress concentrations inside. Thanks for the fork recommendations! I'm not sure if they sell the frame without the fork, but I'll definitely keep those in mind. The first one looks super burly.

QX


----------



## acckids

I thought I would try an eBay carbon/alloy stem from China. It says Bontrager on it and the visual quality at first glance was good. I then started looking at the bolt holes that were off center and the photo shows the biggest defect. Not safe. From here on, I will pay the extra money for confirmed OEM.


----------



## Salocin714

I just recently purchased a velobuild r-022 and in the process of putting it together. I'm really happy with the purchase. The frame is clean and looks pretty solid. My question is about the fork. The fork looks great but seems too light and seems to be thin. Has anyone had a bad experience with this fork. Any insight would be a grate help.

Happy Trails


----------



## MMsRepBike

Salocin714 said:


> I just recently purchased a velobuild r-022 and in the process of putting it together. I'm really happy with the purchase. The frame is clean and looks pretty solid. My question is about the fork. The fork looks great but seems too light and seems to be thin. Has anyone had a bad experience with this fork. Any insight would be a grate help.
> 
> Happy Trails


I can tell you that most of the cheap frames coming out of China recently have steerer tubes that are partially made of fiberglass. There may be other parts of the fork also made of fiberglass instead of carbon but I'm not sure. I am sure about the steerer tubes though.

Now is fiberglass dangerous or less sturdy or whatever in this application? I don't know.

I know for a fact that Trek uses fiberglass, even in their American made frames. I don't know exactly where or how much but I know they use it.

Basically I'm saying that you'll probably have fiberglass in your steerer tube. I don't like it, but I'm not one to make an opinion of it. As I said I know for a fact that reputable manufacturers also use it, just not sure where or why.

I haven't seen any issues with that fork or really any fork that's not for disc brakes lately.


----------



## Salocin714

Thanks MMsRepBike. Have you built or currently own an open mold bike?


----------



## MMsRepBike

I built an open mold one a couple years back. Geometry wasn't right though at the time and I sold it. Nothing currently but name brand stuff.


----------



## Salocin714

Cool! Thanks for the opinion.


----------



## 504yaj

Salocin714 said:


> I just recently purchased a velobuild r-022 and in the process of putting it together. I'm really happy with the purchase. The frame is clean and looks pretty solid. My question is about the fork. The fork looks great but seems too light and seems to be thin. Has anyone had a bad experience with this fork. Any insight would be a grate help.
> 
> Happy Trails


Trust me, it will never break. I am 240lbs and its been holding up pretty good. Here are some shots which hopefully will excite you a bit and get you to finish your build FAF.


----------



## fmendes

acckids said:


> I thought I would try an eBay carbon/alloy stem from China. It says Bontrager on it and the visual quality at first glance was good. I then started looking at the bolt holes that were off center and the photo shows the biggest defect. Not safe. From here on, I will pay the extra money for confirmed OEM.


I'm 270 lb (yes I need to loose some weight) and my bike is an Ican. First fork had what looked like either cracks or scratches. Folks at Ican replaced without further question. 

Second fork has 500 miles and counting.


----------



## Salocin714

Thanks 504Yaj. What stem and handle bars did you use? Very nice build.


----------



## ruckus

I'm also curious what frame this is


----------



## bruto

try Carbon Aero Frame-Carbon Aero Frame Manufacturers, Suppliers and Exporters on Alibaba.comBicycle Frame ?
found a similar looking one on page 7 

if these guys (yfy-carbon.com) won't sell you one, you can atleast ask them for some ways to identify this frameset in order to search for it elsewhere (if it's open design and not their proprietary one, of course)


----------



## 504yaj

Salocin714 said:


> Thanks 504Yaj. What stem and handle bars did you use? Very nice build.


Thanks, I used a 100mm ITM alloy stem and velobuild 42mm carbon dropbar.


----------



## MMsRepBike

Salocin714 said:


> Cool! Thanks for the opinion.







As said, could just be him over-tightening.


----------



## Ricey155

*hope your OK?*



MMsRepBike said:


>


Wow #Dentist next step hope your 100% OK ?


----------



## bruto

Thanks, but it happened quite safely (at low speed), if such word is even applicable in this situation 
The only other thing to receive any damage was a cheap plastic saddle (Tioga Spyder spoof)


----------



## dirckxens

R-Works said:


> In the seemingly never ending search for a new awesome frames I came across the.. VB-R-066 (velobuild) also known as the OG-CF025. Looks like the design of the Canyon Ultimate. Anybody who has any experience with this frameset or seen it from other sellers?
> 
> View attachment 315333
> View attachment 315334
> View attachment 315335



anywone riding this frame or has experiences ?


----------



## aske

bruto said:


> my 028 fork (thru-axle) from the very same merchant/manufacturer is in 3 pieces now, QX: Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
> didn't even last 1000km
> consider a different frameset or atleast fork


Interesting. I seem to recall another post with a failing top tube on a Miracle cross frame on this forum(?). They seem to have a QC issue at the moment. Maybe a new supplier, I don't know, but they also seem to run away from the promised warranty. This is unfortunately not completely unexpected...


----------



## aske

MMsRepBike said:


> I can tell you that most of the cheap frames coming out of China recently have steerer tubes that are partially made of fiberglass. There may be other parts of the fork also made of fiberglass instead of carbon but I'm not sure. I am sure about the steerer tubes though.
> 
> Now is fiberglass dangerous or less sturdy or whatever in this application? I don't know.
> 
> I know for a fact that Trek uses fiberglass, even in their American made frames. I don't know exactly where or how much but I know they use it.
> 
> Basically I'm saying that you'll probably have fiberglass in your steerer tube. I don't like it, but I'm not one to make an opinion of it. As I said I know for a fact that reputable manufacturers also use it, just not sure where or why.
> 
> I haven't seen any issues with that fork or really any fork that's not for disc brakes lately.


Yes, I have made this observation as well. 
I have contacted two Chinese manufacturers about the issue. One replied that it was easing the molding process, another replied it was increasing the strength. So, my current conclusion is that it's lowering their cost. 
In terms of fiberglass in carbon frames I have read (somewhere, don't remember) that it's used as a layer in between metal parts and raw carbon fiber to avoid corrosion. So fx the threads for the bottle cage bolts, RD hanger, fender bolt threads etc. 
Whether there's the same reasoning behind using it in the steerer tubes, I don't know (is corrosion with the expander plug and steerer tube an issue?). But I have, as you, not heard of any issues related to this so far.


----------



## MMsRepBike

aske said:


> Yes, I have made this observation as well.
> I have contacted two Chinese manufacturers about the issue. One replied that it was easing the molding process, another replied it was increasing the strength. So, my current conclusion is that it's lowering their cost.
> In terms of fiberglass in carbon frames I have read (somewhere, don't remember) that it's used as a layer in between metal parts and raw carbon fiber to avoid corrosion. So fx the threads for the bottle cage bolts, RD hanger, fender bolt threads etc.
> Whether there's the same reasoning behind using it in the steerer tubes, I don't know (is corrosion with the expander plug and steerer tube an issue?). But I have, as you, not heard of any issues related to this so far.


You are correct. The fiberglass is used around the bottle cage bolts to prevent corrosion, as carbon and aluminum are at different ends of the galvanic scale. It is also used in places like the seat tube in the case the rider chooses an aluminum seat post. Recently found this out from that carbon guru guy. I don't see any reason at all though to have it inside of a steerer tube. He did show how steerer tubes generally suffer from voids in the carbon about halfway between the bearings, but he demonstrated that it was a problem with the process and the bladders used, not the material.


----------



## aske

MMsRepBike said:


> You are correct. The fiberglass is used around the bottle cage bolts to prevent corrosion, as carbon and aluminum are at different ends of the galvanic scale. It is also used in places like the seat tube in the case the rider chooses an aluminum seat post. Recently found this out from that carbon guru guy. I don't see any reason at all though to have it inside of a steerer tube. He did show how steerer tubes generally suffer from voids in the carbon about halfway between the bearings, but he demonstrated that it was a problem with the process and the bladders used, not the material.


Yeah, I mainly also suspect it to be a means of cutting costs.
I ordered a separate cyclocross fork from one of these manufacturers and that came with full carbon steerer tube. I have 3 identical cyclocross frames from different manufacturers, all with fiberglass in the steerer tube. 
I wonder if it's somehow embedded in the open mold design "manual" of certain framesets. Don't know though.


----------



## nealio

I'm edging ever closer to the HongFu FM098 as an aero race bike (as opposed to the Dengfu FM098 which is different), over the FM169  (also known as the Avenger R8) which has direct mount brakes. Just wanted some opinion on the HongFu FM098 from any owners, and the pros/cons of the FM169.

I've a Dura-ace 9000 to stick on it, so that probably limits me to the FM098 which I'm ok with.


----------



## pianopiano

*Finally Finished Building my LTK118*

As they say, sometimes life gets in the way, but I've finally gotten around to completing my LTK118 project. I've ridden it for just over a month now, and I'm really enjoying it. I had grand plans to paint it with a small compressor and paint gun, but since I live in a 1 bedroom rental apartment, that didn't really work out, so I ended going the spray can in the backyard route. I used Duplicolor products, including a can of high heat ultra gloss enamel for the clear coat, and really took my time during the painting process. I think that, over the years, I've somewhat mastered the art of spray can painting, as it turned out far better than I expected. I used vinyl cut graphics to make the paint stencils, and Stenciled the wheels that I'd built in my living room last winter while I was at it. 

My biggest mistake was when I decided to transfer used (well used) Campy 10 speed shifters, rear derailleur and crankset from my previous bike, as I had other priorities and needed to keep the costs down. This caused a LOT of stress, as I had to spend a lot of time removing, cleaning, and rebuilding all of these parts before installing them and they're still not working like new ones would, due to a slightly bent rear derailleur. From now on, it will always be new frame/new components for me!

One last thing. I dropped down from a 56cm frame to a 54cm on this bike, as I wanted a more compact setup. The top tube length on the 54cm LTK118 was just 1/2 a cm shorter than my previous bike, so I accommodated that by switching from a 120cm to a 130mm stem. The only problem encountered by going with the smaller frame size is the case of toe/front wheel overlap. About 1 1/2" of overlap, actually, which I first discovered by falling over at a red light on the very first ride while trying to do a trackstand. I did move my cleats forward, which helps a bit, and I'm much more conscientious of it now.


----------



## untarded

@piano...beautiful...


----------



## pianopiano

untarded said:


> @piano...beautiful...


Thank you.


----------



## petepeterson

Has anyone taken delivery of a CX028 Flat Mount frameset? I am waiting on Miracle to ship mine this week and I am now concerned with the front fork given that it is 15mm thru axle and disc.... Different model from the one snapped clean off but still...


----------



## bruto

you're the test dummy now  just keep a spare fork close by


----------



## gwenmad

Hello everyone,

I have bought a FM208 from dengfu and I am facing an issue during assembling.
The brake câble entrance on the front of the top tube is blocked. There is no hole for the câble to get in the frame.
I would like to know if someone has already met this situation and what is the solution.
I anticipate this could be a finishing issue with extra carbon filling the hole but I was not able to clear it.
Regards

Envoyé de mon Nexus 4 en utilisant Tapatalk


----------



## Doug.

Small drill bit, maybe 0.5 m.m. gently using slow speed should get the carbon out.
All being well proceed gradually with bigger drill bits .
Try and let the drill find its own way, there should be some sort of cable entrance that has been blocked.
GENTLY, does it and good luck, carbon can be difficult to drill through.


----------



## Doug.

Well done,the bike looks splendid.
Sure it shall be as good to ride as it looks.


----------



## gwenmad

Doug. said:


> Small drill bit, maybe 0.5 m.m. gently using slow speed should get the carbon out.
> All being well proceed gradually with bigger drill bits .
> Try and let the drill find its own way, there should be some sort of cable entrance that has been blocked.
> GENTLY, does it and good luck, carbon can be difficult to drill through.


Thanks for the feedback.
I consider using some kind of small gimlet to proceed as you suggest.
I have also sent a message to dengfu to have their feedback. They asked for a picture of the problem. I will wait for their answer before any attempt.


Envoyé de mon Nexus 4 en utilisant Tapatalk


----------



## Doug.

Hope all goes well, whatever method you use.
I also have carbon framed Chinese cycles (so far very happy with the product )and price.
Believe dengfu are a good firm to deal with.
I live near to Bergerac, where are you ?


----------



## gwenmad

No problem with Dengfu till now. They answer quickly to my previous questions. I'm just wondering what could be their solution in this case. I fear that they could request to send back the frame to fix it themselves.

I'm from the west suburbs of Paris.


Envoyé de mon Nexus 4 en utilisant Tapatalk


----------



## petepeterson

I'm having a tough time here with Miracle and getting concerned. Paint for my frameset was complete two weeks ago (photos sent) and they still haven't shipped it. Jenny sent me a tracking number which doesn't work on EMS and is avoiding answering what is going on. Never had service this poor and I have bought many frames and wheels from China. Does anyone have a contact for someone else at Miracle?


----------



## TimberWolfQX

petepeterson said:


> I'm having a tough time here with Miracle and getting concerned. Paint for my frameset was complete two weeks ago (photos sent) and they still haven't shipped it. Jenny sent me a tracking number which doesn't work on EMS and is avoiding answering what is going on. Never had service this poor and I have bought many frames and wheels from China. Does anyone have a contact for someone else at Miracle?


They just had their Singles Day (11 Nov) promotion, which is the Chinese equivalent of Black Friday sales. They're probably neck-deep in orders at the moment, and shipping capacity is probably maxed out. I'm sorry you are experiencing delays though - I'm still waiting for my set of wheels from another vendor to complete the build with too.

That said: here is their Alibaba page: https://miracle-bikes.en.alibaba.com/

Scroll down to see "Contact Customer Service"

There are a few other contacts present. I spoke with Season Lan regarding the CX028 frame (before finally deciding to purchase an RD01 frame from ICan for the looks). You can contact her from the site, though you'd probably have to create an account on Alibaba. 

I hope this helps!

QX


----------



## gwenmad

After sending several pictures to illustrate my issue, I got a feedback from Dengfu.
According to them, a plastic part used to protect the frame during painting has been forgotten. They suggest to "remove" it with a thin metal wire.

I still have to check on the frame, but I still can't figure out what this plastic cap looks like.

Does anyone has a picture of such a cable entrance to see how it is supposed to look like when this plastic cap is removed ?

Here is the last picture sent to Dengfu to better understand my issue.


----------



## torgian

*new and looking at bikes*

Hey guys,
So i'm looking at buying a new road bike, but the usual manufacturers here are expensive. I recently learned about the open mold Chinese frames and I'm wondering what others can recommend.
I actually live in Shanghai so I plan on getting a few factories/manufacturers together and make appointments to visit them (most seem to be in Shenzhen). 
Now, I'm not _that_ knowledgable about bicycle frames and what to look out for exactly, so any advice is appreciated. Also, I will take pictures and notes where I can so I am more than willing to help the community out over here by asking any questions you think I should ask. 
Thanks guys!


----------



## bruto

quite a few of them are in Xiamen, which is closer to you
I'd ask about the manufacturing process and it compares to that of their neighbors/competitors  curing time, sample testing


----------



## pedalbiker

You can just walk in and tour factories whenever you want? 

That seems really strange.


----------



## torgian

pedalbiker said:


> You can just walk in and tour factories whenever you want?
> 
> That seems really strange.


Not that strange. As long as you contact them and ask for a tour ahead of time, most of the factory owners are pretty open about it, as long as you only take pictures that they allow you to take.

I teach English here and have met a lot of adults who are moving up in the manufacturing businesses and need to learn English. Pretty much the only thing off limits are some of the car factories and such. You'd be surprised how much you can learn how much stuff and WHAT stuff is made in China. 

I know one company where Microsoft is their main client, and they design and manufacture test equipment specifically for Microsoft products.


----------



## torgian

bruto said:


> quite a few of them are in Xiamen, which is closer to you
> I'd ask about the manufacturing process and it compares to that of their neighbors/competitors  curing time, sample testing


Cool, I'll start looking for those. Any idea where I can start looking? 

So far I'v learned that the majority of the frame makers here source their carbon from Japan.

As for wheel sets, these guys impressed me https://www.lightbicycle.com/about-light-bicycle


----------



## bruto

I dunno, maybe Baidu maps or whatever it is you use in China? )
https://www.google.com/search?q=xiamen carbon factory&gws_rd=cr,ssl&ei=T_e4VOHnDcHIyAOj-oBw&fg=1
for the record, Yishun = Light Bicycle


----------



## torgian

Actually, Yishun != Light Bicycle. Confusing, I know, but Light Bicycle _used _to make frames and other accessories until last year. Now, they just focus on making hand-built rims. 

Yishun only makes light bicycles. And rims, obviously, but Light Bicycles, again, only focuses on carbon rims. Very good ones too, apparently. I'm gonna go on a factory tour next month.


----------



## aske

torgian said:


> Actually, Yishun != Light Bicycle. Confusing, I know, but Light Bicycle _used _to make frames and other accessories until last year. Now, they just focus on making hand-built rims.
> 
> Yishun only makes light bicycles. And rims, obviously, but Light Bicycles, again, only focuses on carbon rims. Very good ones too, apparently. I'm gonna go on a factory tour next month.


About Yishun. I've dealt with them,and they are great.
In terms of ownership, Yishun and Light Carbon (LightCarbon - manufacturer of carbon frame & carbon fork) made a partnership (cross shareholding) in 2015. Yishun produces wheels and rims and Light Carbon produces frames and components. With this setup they are both able to provide "the full package".
My impression was that they are one of the upcoming manufacturers, and for that reason care about quality and customer satisfaction.
I bought a cyclocross frame and so far it is great.

Btw, no affiliation what so ever here. Just my 5 cents.


----------



## bruto

Yishun and either LB or LC had a very similar looking sites not very long ago with "about" pages in particular being carbon copies of each other - hence my conclusion of them being the same company


----------



## torgian

Well, I'll find out soon enough  I'll keep you guys updated and I'll ask them about any partnerships they may have. Yishun and Light Bicycle seems like it may be a good combination, and hopefully I can get a look at their factories in the next month.


----------



## torgian

_UPDATE_
So I've been talking to the reps at www.lightbicycle.com. First, do _not_ confuse this manufacturer with Yishun or LightCarbon. Light Bicycle is completely separate, and I have to say, these guys are pretty serious.
First, their about page. Take the time to watch the video. https://www.lightbicycle.com/about-light-bicycle
They go through some pretty rigorous testing when doing R&D as well. They list the steps they take on their website, but for posterity's sake here it goes.
picture of testing area
Check out the link. This is a picture of their testing area.
Beyond the testing in house, they also do _field_ testing, as in, they give their wheels to local racers and have them use it. Out of the few companies I've spoken to so far, this is the only factory that actually does field testing.
They do sell different depths of rims and recently released a 28mm wide 36mm deep carbon clincher. They haven't made any disc rims yet, but are in the process of it. 
The price for a pair of 25mm wide 35mm deep rims is about 169 USD per piece. I am currently talking to them if that is per _wheel_ or if it is for a _pair_ of wheels. I'm gonna ask them more questions tomorrow (it's 10pm here as I write this) so please send me your questions my way for any technical stuff that you believe I should ask.


----------



## aske

torgian said:


> _UPDATE_
> So I've been talking to the reps at www.lightbicycle.com. First, do _not_ confuse this manufacturer with Yishun or LightCarbon. Light Bicycle is completely separate, and I have to say, these guys are pretty serious.
> First, their about page. Take the time to watch the video. https://www.lightbicycle.com/about-light-bicycle
> They go through some pretty rigorous testing when doing R&D as well. They list the steps they take on their website, but for posterity's sake here it goes.
> picture of testing area
> Check out the link. This is a picture of their testing area.
> Beyond the testing in house, they also do _field_ testing, as in, they give their wheels to local racers and have them use it. Out of the few companies I've spoken to so far, this is the only factory that actually does field testing.
> They do sell different depths of rims and recently released a 28mm wide 36mm deep carbon clincher. They haven't made any disc rims yet, but are in the process of it.
> The price for a pair of 25mm wide 35mm deep rims is about 169 USD per piece. I am currently talking to them if that is per _wheel_ or if it is for a _pair_ of wheels. I'm gonna ask them more questions tomorrow (it's 10pm here as I write this) so please send me your questions my way for any technical stuff that you believe I should ask.


This is awesome! Would you be able to pay Yishun a visit as well? I've already dealt with them, but an on site visit would be very valuable!


----------



## torgian

***UPDATE #2***


Earlier I had written about the price.


The price *per rim* is RMB1118, or about 160 USD (the RMB is dropping against the dollar so it's cheaper to use USD right now) So for a pair of rims, they charge 2236RMB. Keep in mind that this does NOT include hubs/spokes/nipples, just the rims themselves. They do, of course, offer hubs and spokes as an option, in different materials. 


They also offer a service to add your own decals or logos. They charge 480RMB to 1000RMB, depending on size and color, or they can use their standard Light Bicycle decals free of charge (they do look pretty dope, honestly) 


To give everyone an update on frames, I have *not* heard anything back from Yishun yet. I'm starting to contact other manufacturers so I'll keep you updated.


----------



## torgian

aske said:


> This is awesome! Would you be able to pay Yishun a visit as well? I've already dealt with them, but an on site visit would be very valuable!




Heard back from Yishun Bike. They do not make frames anymore; they are focusing on rims and wheel builds.
Lightcarbon, their partner company, is focusing on the parts and frame building. Their latest frame is the LCR004-V and LCR004-B. The B is a normal weight and is a new aero design. The V is a light-weight version. Both are the same price at about $450 USD per set (frame, fork, seat post, clamp) with sizes 54cm and 56cm available. Paint/Decals can be added for an additional fee. 
Apparently, the team that uses (or used) GIOS frames uses the LCR004-B frame. I'll have to double check this little fact, so don't quote me on this, but it _was_ used in a championship. I just haven't gotten the details for that yet, so I'll keep researching this.
I'll keep everyone updated.


----------



## aske

torgian said:


> Heard back from Yishun Bike. They do not make frames anymore; they are focusing on rims and wheel builds.
> Lightcarbon, their partner company, is focusing on the parts and frame building. Their latest frame is the LCR004-V and LCR004-B. The B is a normal weight and is a new aero design. The V is a light-weight version. Both are the same price at about $450 USD per set (frame, fork, seat post, clamp) with sizes 54cm and 56cm available. Paint/Decals can be added for an additional fee.
> Apparently, the team that uses (or used) GIOS frames uses the LCR004-B frame. I'll have to double check this little fact, so don't quote me on this, but it _was_ used in a championship. I just haven't gotten the details for that yet, so I'll keep researching this.
> I'll keep everyone updated.


Cool! I can only see a LCR004-V and LCR004-D on their site though. D being disc brake specific.
Keep on the good work. Valuable information!
Another interesting fact would be to know how much is open molds and how much is factory designs. Maybe they'll say it's all factory, but still, worth a try


----------



## torgian

OK, big update.

Images:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BNrHZqWD-Ri/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BNrHcTajxQ5/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BNrHf5OD77U/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BNrHhNPjkXq/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BNrHmGID0sn/

The first two pictures are two of the newest frames, the super light and the disc version by Yishun bicycles. Apparently, the team shown uses their bikes, sponsored by GIOS. Granted, I only have the factory's word on this fact; GIOS hasn't responded to my emails. 

However, if you study the pictures of the bikes, you'll see that they look identical to the LCR004-V. My guess is that GIOS sponsored the team and bought these frames and had them painted in GIOS colors. 

The team itself actually got green lit as a UCI Professional team this year, which is Columbia's first pro team in a long time. Keep an eye out for them this year, it may be interesting to see how they perform. 

OK,next: Light Bicycle's wheel sets.

Direct quote from the manufacturer:





Below are the quotations for your reference.
-WRU350C02 (with DT 350 non disc hubs, Sapim cx-ray spokes): $725/pair (RMB5004)
-WRU350C02 (with DT 240S non disc hubs, Sapim cx-ray spokes): $920/pair (RMB6350)
-Delivery cost: $14 (RMB96) for one wheelset to Shanghai by SF-express


Sapim cx-ray spoke is a titanium spoke.

So, this said, it seems that fully built wheels with DT Swiss hubs and titanium spokes can get pricier. They do have other hubs available, or you could just build your own wheel. 

I've asked Yishun for more info from them about their own frames and wheel sets. Will update when I get more info.


----------



## aske

torgian said:


> OK, big update.
> 
> Images:
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BNrHZqWD-Ri/
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BNrHcTajxQ5/
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BNrHf5OD77U/
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BNrHhNPjkXq/
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BNrHmGID0sn/
> 
> The first two pictures are two of the newest frames, the super light and the disc version by Yishun bicycles. Apparently, the team shown uses their bikes, sponsored by GIOS. Granted, I only have the factory's word on this fact; GIOS hasn't responded to my emails.
> 
> However, if you study the pictures of the bikes, you'll see that they look identical to the LCR004-V. My guess is that GIOS sponsored the team and bought these frames and had them painted in GIOS colors.
> 
> The team itself actually got green lit as a UCI Professional team this year, which is Columbia's first pro team in a long time. Keep an eye out for them this year, it may be interesting to see how they perform.
> 
> OK,next: Light Bicycle's wheel sets.
> 
> Direct quote from the manufacturer:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Below are the quotations for your reference.
> -WRU350C02 (with DT 350 non disc hubs, Sapim cx-ray spokes): $725/pair (RMB5004)
> -WRU350C02 (with DT 240S non disc hubs, Sapim cx-ray spokes): $920/pair (RMB6350)
> -Delivery cost: $14 (RMB96) for one wheelset to Shanghai by SF-express
> 
> 
> Sapim cx-ray spoke is a titanium spoke.
> 
> So, this said, it seems that fully built wheels with DT Swiss hubs and titanium spokes can get pricier. They do have other hubs available, or you could just build your own wheel.
> 
> I've asked Yishun for more info from them about their own frames and wheel sets. Will update when I get more info.


Cool. I find it believable that they are supplying a smaller brand. 
My impression of them was that they were a serious up and coming supplier. My interactions with them was with "Kitty" who's been writing me since, seemingly interested in how I find the frame and if everything is going well. Seems genuine.

Btw, I bought the LCX027-D cyclocross frame from them. It's fine. No issues. But it's a very used open mold sold by many suppliers. I'm looking at their gravel frame at the moment (LCR010-D). Looks sharp, with 40c clearance.  Haven't seen that model at other suppliers yet.


----------



## torgian

True. 

overall, seems like a decent deal. I'm not sure if it's a _good _deal, however. 

Adding up prices for the frame (3099RMB) built rims from yishun (another 3379) and then add a shimano 105 groupset for around 4000RMB, You're already up to 10,000 RMB, and that's without handlebars, saddle, pedals and accessories, as well as time to build and adjust the bike. 

For 10800 RMB I can get a Giant TCR or a Defy with disc brakes. For another 1000 RMB I can get a good Defy with pedals, so... I don't think it's a great deal. Of course, if you already have parts available or if you can get good deals on parts for the bike, then getting the Yishun frame and wheel sets is a real bargain. But not so much when building a whole brand new bike.


----------



## aske

torgian said:


> True.
> 
> overall, seems like a decent deal. I'm not sure if it's a _good _deal, however.
> 
> Adding up prices for the frame (3099RMB) built rims from yishun (another 3379) and then add a shimano 105 groupset for around 4000RMB, You're already up to 10,000 RMB, and that's without handlebars, saddle, pedals and accessories, as well as time to build and adjust the bike.
> 
> For 10800 RMB I can get a Giant TCR or a Defy with disc brakes. For another 1000 RMB I can get a good Defy with pedals, so... I don't think it's a great deal. Of course, if you already have parts available or if you can get good deals on parts for the bike, then getting the Yishun frame and wheel sets is a real bargain. But not so much when building a whole brand new bike.


Sure, the frame I bought wasn't in the cheap end either. Though for me, quality is way more important than ~50USD.

About the price comparison, you are comparing a setup with carbon wheels to a setup with stock alloy wheels. Makes a big difference in price. You can get "stock" alloy wheels for 1/4th of the price of the Yishun carbon wheels and then use the rest of the money to buy a better group set and/or carbon components. Then you end up with a significant better/lighter/fancier setup than what a Defy will provide at that price. With comparable wheel sets. (I would recommend the carbon wheels though...)

Also, the price of new bicycles differ a lot from market to market. Fx. in my market, the lowest end Defy is around 13900 RMB (thx Google). That's with 10 speed Tiagra and all heavy stock alloy components.

I think most of the people in here who build up the frames from scratch find that the building, is part of the fun. I do at least 

Btw, not saying anything bad about buying complete branded bikes. If I were to buy a bike right now without hazzle and law-backed warranty, I would go for a complete branded one. You DO save on components. I would actually look for a Giant, I think 

Anyways, keep up the good field work! It's really valuable information you provide!


----------



## torgian

Ahh yes, Id int think about the rims, they are alloy rims on the branded bikes. Good point there. With that said, I might actually do that and get a frame from Yishun and get alloys for the time being.


----------



## fmendes

torgian said:


> Images:
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BNrHZqWD-Ri/


This one looks a lot like my Ican: 
Aero Intregrated Road Frame - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.

(mine has a separate seat tube and is mate black). Do these guys share molds?


----------



## bruto

many road bikes look alike at first glance 
and yet they're different:
Aero Intregrated Road Frame - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.
700C Full Carbon Superlight Road Frame Kit LCR004-V-Yishunbike


----------



## torgian

fmendes said:


> This one looks a lot like my Ican:
> Aero Intregrated Road Frame - Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.
> 
> (mine has a separate seat tube and is mate black). Do these guys share molds?


Looks like that bike is a couple of years old. I dont think ICAN exists anymore.

These molds are open mold, which means they are able to share the mold with anyone who wants to buy a frame. They also work with people who want to make a new brand; more often than not if a new company REALLY wants to be more successful, they'll buy an open mold so that the factory can't share it with other companies... or they'll design their own mold.


----------



## torgian

Update: So a couple things.

I'm in the process of rebuilding my website (combination of a photography site and blog) where I'm gonna start posting reviews and other content. 

I have decided I'm gonna buy a Yishun disc frameset and wheels, but it will take a while, since I need to get the funds together for a full carbon build with 105. Unless, of course, someone is willing to give me money as a generous sponsor 

Since I live here in China it makes it easy for me to return things if need be and to talk directly to the factory if problems come up. That said, I am also going to see if they are willing to consider letting me borrow a built bike out of their components, or give me a good discount, in return for a full review and marketing for a period of time on my website. For this to happen I need to first get my website up and running (which is almost done).

Whatever happens, once I do get the bike built, ridden, and fully tested, and if it goes well, I'll let everyone know


----------



## TimberWolfQX

torgian said:


> Looks like that bike is a couple of years old. I dont think ICAN exists anymore.


Actually they do! I just purchased an RD01 frame from them. It came in a bit heavier than expected, but it looks good. I'll post pictures and the build when it's all here. Waiting for a wheelset from X-Bikes.

QX


----------



## torgian

TimberWolfQX said:


> Actually they do! I just purchased an RD01 frame from them. It came in a bit heavier than expected, but it looks good. I'll post pictures and the build when it's all here. Waiting for a wheelset from X-Bikes.
> 
> QX


nice, let us know!


----------



## aske

torgian said:


> Update: So a couple things.
> 
> I'm in the process of rebuilding my website (combination of a photography site and blog) where I'm gonna start posting reviews and other content.
> 
> I have decided I'm gonna buy a Yishun disc frameset and wheels, but it will take a while, since I need to get the funds together for a full carbon build with 105. Unless, of course, someone is willing to give me money as a generous sponsor
> 
> Since I live here in China it makes it easy for me to return things if need be and to talk directly to the factory if problems come up. That said, I am also going to see if they are willing to consider letting me borrow a built bike out of their components, or give me a good discount, in return for a full review and marketing for a period of time on my website. For this to happen I need to first get my website up and running (which is almost done).
> 
> Whatever happens, once I do get the bike built, ridden, and fully tested, and if it goes well, I'll let everyone know


Sounds great! Would be valuable for a lot of people to start an open mold review/test site. As you said, it would also be advertising for the manufacturers. Question is just whether they'll take the risk.


----------



## aske

torgian said:


> Looks like that bike is a couple of years old. I dont think ICAN exists anymore.
> 
> These molds are open mold, which means they are able to share the mold with anyone who wants to buy a frame. They also work with people who want to make a new brand; more often than not if a new company REALLY wants to be more successful, they'll buy an open mold so that the factory can't share it with other companies... or they'll design their own mold.


While that is mostly the case, more and more new companies are going directly with open molds. Look at a company like Ribble Cycles www.ribblecycles.co.uk. They are more or less selling open molds directly.


----------



## TimberWolfQX

Hey guys!
Finally got my bike up and running! Torgian, this the RD01 frame I spoke of.

View attachment 317417


The bike rides like a dream! Fits very nicely and it's super smooth. Brakes are a little squealy but I've been told they will break in after awhile.


Frame: ICan RD01 Disc brake/thru-axle frame (Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.)


Wheels: X-Bike HP30-360 ultralight clincher wheels with Novatec D771/772SB disc hubs, Pillar 1420 spokes (Carbon Wheels,Carbon Bicycle Manufacturer,Cheap Carbon Wheels-X-Bike Equipment Co.,Ltd.)


Tyres: Schwalbe Pro One Tubeless 28C
Crankset: SRAM Force 1
Rear derailleur: SRAM Rival 1
Shifter: SRAM Apex 1 flat-bar
Chain: SRAM PC-1170
Cassette: SRAM XG-1175 10-42
Brakes: TRP Spyre
Brake lever: SRAM BL-700
Handlebars: TOSEEK flat bar (Taobao.com, ask me for address if interested)
Pedals: AEST magnesium /titanium axle (Taobao)
Saddle: TOSEEK padded carbon (Taobao)

Total weight as of now is about 7.3kgs
Can definitely get it to sub 7 if I change the chainring, headset, brake rotors and thru-axles.


QX


----------



## ac/bc

Looking for a carbon fork that will clear 28c tires. Any recommendations?


----------



## Steve B.

ac/bc said:


> Looking for a carbon fork that will clear 28c tires. Any recommendations?


IRD Mosaic. 1-1/8", aluminum steerer, fits a 28 with fenders, so possibly up to a 32 without, YMMV.

IRD Mosaic 57 Carbon Fork Aluminum Steerer 1-1/8"


----------



## bruto

here're a few with drawings, ac/bc - pick one
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8X9ucAFfHNtc0F2d09ZMnpnZ0U


----------



## fmendes

TimberWolfQX said:


> Hey guys!
> Finally got my bike up and running! Torgian, this the RD01 frame I spoke of.
> 
> View attachment 317417


Congratulations!

But you seem to have the same problem I did: your picture is too large for the forum. Try to resize smaller than 800x600, should work.


----------



## TimberWolfQX

fmendes said:


> Congratulations!
> 
> But you seem to have the same problem I did: your picture is too large for the forum. Try to resize smaller than 800x600, should work.






























This should work! 
I've been riding it for a hundred or so miles this past week, and it feels amazing. You hit 25kmh with little effort and it's so controllable.

I'll be switching out some parts (headset, brake levers, brake rotors and bolts) for light weight versions, and maybe in the future, switch to a direct mount oval chainring.

Questions and comments welcome!

QX


----------



## aske

bruto said:


> here're a few with drawings, ac/bc - pick one
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8X9ucAFfHNtc0F2d09ZMnpnZ0U


Is that a company you have delt with?


----------



## mjb152

TimberWolfQX said:


> Frame: ICan RD01 Disc brake/thru-axle frame (Shenzhen ICAN Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.)


do you mind letting us know the price for the frame/forks ?


----------



## TimberWolfQX

mjb152 said:


> do you mind letting us know the price for the frame/forks ?


480USD for frame and fork. Shipping depends on where you are. If you use PayPal there is a 4.5% fee. You considering getting one?

Sent from my Metal using Tapatalk


----------



## bruto

aske said:


> Is that a company you have delt with?


yes
bought a couple CX/gravel forks from them
none broke yet


----------



## aske

bruto said:


> yes
> bought a couple CX/gravel forks from them
> none broke yet


Great! Was it the ACC-D752? If so, how do you find it? Been looking at similar.


----------



## bruto

nope, I got the thru-axle ones
the first one is ACC-D779, which is fine, just not that much clearance with 40mm tires on wide rims
that's why I got a suppsedly wider fork from them, D8014, which, despite the drawings showing immense clearance, is only a mm or two wider where it matters  It is heavier and appears beefier, though! Also has a better axle (D779 axle sucks, I will have to replace it with something simpler and more reliable)


----------



## fmendes

Many posts back, someone had problems cutting the fork to the right height for the stem/spacers. I'm posting here just to inform that I cut the fork of my Ican yesterday, and had no problem at all. I used an old stem to guide the cut.

There were minimal fibers torn when I ended. I just broke the sharp corners with a Dremel and called it a day.


----------



## Bigsy

I just noticed this heavily open-up influenced china frame: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...Carbon-Bike-Frame-Gravel-Di2/32787589314.html

Seems a little different to the other open-up inspired frames in that it supports fenders/rack... but would seem not to have fender mounts on the front which seems odd, shame as I would of bought it.


----------



## bruto

aelbike make this frame too, Bigsy
you can try buying it with the 779 fork instead of 8014 (fits 40mm tires too with very similar clearance, see above), which has fender eyelets
photos and drawings of both here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8X9ucAFfHNtY2tXLXd5TkxSdkU

or contact this seller with a similar request
or any other merchant selling this frame 
upd: here you go: anglecycle | eBay has both the frame and fork in question


----------



## TimberWolfQX

Bigsy said:


> I just noticed this heavily open-up influenced china frame: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...Carbon-Bike-Frame-Gravel-Di2/32787589314.html
> 
> Seems a little different to the other open-up inspired frames in that it supports fenders/rack... but would seem not to have fender mounts on the front which seems odd, shame as I would of bought it.


Hmm, what's the rationale of having one chainstay bent in that manner? Personally, the look is really not for me.

Sent from my Metal using Tapatalk


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## bruto

same as elevated or split chainstay on plus bikes - making it fit between the narrow road crank arms and a wider tire with sufficient clearance

it's not as visible (esp. on a black frame) with the wheel and chainring in place, by the way: https://www.google.com/search?q=3t+...UICSgC&biw=1441&bih=935#imgrc=Ezud0LYrgg-7zM:


----------



## Bigsy

Cheers bruto, the anglecycle version doesnt seem to have fender/rack mount on the rear as well, but guess the pictures might not be entirely accturate. I have sent a message to clarify.

I'd like:

* Takes fenders, front rear
* Flat mount disc
* Takes 32mm tires
* thru axle (although could live without rear if it came to it)
* Light'ish, with +600mm front-center on a medium size.
* Preferably standard round 27.2mm seat post and short seat tube for comfort and standard clamp (don't trust the fancy Chinese mechanisms)

The carbonda CFR505 gravel frame comes closest but they just want too much money for it.


----------



## aske

Bigsy said:


> Cheers bruto, the anglecycle version doesnt seem to have fender/rack mount on the rear as well, but guess the pictures might not be entirely accturate. I have sent a message to clarify.
> 
> * Takes fenders, front rear
> * Flat mount disc
> * Takes 32mm tires
> * thru axle (although could live without rear if it came to it)
> * Light'ish, with +600mm front-center on a medium size.
> * Preferably standard round 27.2mm seat post and short seat tube for comfort and standard clamp (don't trust the fancy Chinese mechanisms)
> 
> The carbonda CFR505 gravel frame comes closest but they just want too much money for it.


I've also had an eye on the new yishun gravel bike. Looks great. May I ask what quote you got on the Carbonda bike? I got a quote on 490usd fob Xiamen on the yishun frame. Good price IMO.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


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## Freeman

Hi Bigsy, I think this one from ICAN meets your requirements. AC388 Takes fenders, not sure about a rack. Come with 12 or 15mm front axle and the other requirements. $480 + delivery or so it says on the page.
I was also thinking about the CF505, can you tell the price they were asking?
Anyway hope this helps

https://wholesaler.alibaba.com/prod...sign-carbon-cyclocross-frame_60549030878.html


----------



## Bigsy

They were asking $635 in total for frame/fork and headset with shipping to the UK. No seatpost, no thru axles. 

I felt the 4.5% charge for paypal was a step too far as the only other way of paying was by bank transfer and I wanted to use my creditcard incase of any issues.


----------



## Bigsy

Freeman said:


> Hi Bigsy, I think this one from ICAN meets your requirements. AC388 Takes fenders, not sure about a rack. Come with 12 or 15mm front axle and the other requirements. $480 + delivery or so it says on the page.
> I was also thinking about the CF505, can you tell the price they were asking?
> Anyway hope this helps
> 
> https://wholesaler.alibaba.com/prod...sign-carbon-cyclocross-frame_60549030878.html


Thanks, I did see this one, you right its very close to me brief and I am tempted, still call me fussy.. but the droopy top tube just turns me off a bit... but I might just have to go for function over form and go for it.

The Chinese do like to copy Cervelo's, I'm kinda hoping they knock something out inspired by the C3/C5 as that would be ideal


----------



## Freeman

True about the Cervelo's. I was also looking at this one from Miracle bike CX535 but no mudguards. They might add if asked.
Seat post is 31.6 though.

[url]https://miracle-bikes.en.alibaba.com/product/60573887839-222220315/Miracle_cyclocross_frame_CX535_Cyclocross_bike_frame_thru_axle_142_12mm.html


[/URL]


----------



## Bigsy

hehe I can see we have been doing very similar shopping  I think this frame looks nearly the same as the GR029... I was really considering it maybe thinking I could use P-clips for the mudguards, would just prefer not to...

Decisions, decisions...


----------



## Freeman

lol Yeah seems like it. I thought it was an update of the MC286 with flat mount. GR29 is no different to the CX 028. Maybe get a discount on the CR535 for two haha

That was meant to read CF505 lol


----------



## bruto

you know mudguards and 40mm tires are likely a no go despite anything the manufacturer might tell you?
unless you can bend or cut your fenders to replicate the shape of your fork/chainstay/seatstay bridge exactly, that is - which is not very easy as the fenders tend to have some stiffness 
The fork might provide 1cm or more radial and lateral clearance, but the arch is rounded and the tire is less so due to the cornering knobs, hence there's usually significantly less diagonal clearance (about 6mm in my 8014 and 779 forks, with a Flintridge on a 22mm IW rim)
I'm sure the Chromoplastics I used on the previous frame wouldn't fit with these tires


----------



## Bigsy

If that was aimed at me then yes I'm fully aware. I won't be running 40mm tyres with mudguards.


----------



## mjb152

TimberWolfQX said:


> 480USD for frame and fork. Shipping depends on where you are. If you use PayPal there is a 4.5% fee. You considering getting one?
> 
> Sent from my Metal using Tapatalk


sorry for the delay in replying, but yes I'm considering getting one. Ideally I'd like a Canyone Aeroroad CF SLX disc 8.0 di2, but they come in around £4.5k. Think I should be able to self build a di2 for under £2k not including wheels. The hard part is finding the right frame.


----------



## TimberWolfQX

mjb152 said:


> sorry for the delay in replying, but yes I'm considering getting one. Ideally I'd like a Canyone Aeroroad CF SLX disc 8.0 di2, but they come in around £4.5k. Think I should be able to self build a di2 for under £2k not including wheels. The hard part is finding the right frame.


Hey, no problem dude.

I've cycled 200+km so far with the frame and have been loving it. Though not stated, it has quite massive tyre clearance for a road bike. I'm running 28mm tyres but could easily fit a 35-38 on it. It's not the best for weight, though, but it is very handsome.

If you're concerned about weight try looking for the Workswell 112 or Miracle bikes GR028. They are thru-axle frames with generous tyre clearance. Though I'd wager they don't look as good as the RD01 

If you are looking for carbon wheels, do check out the foam-filled models from X-Bike (http://www.xbikewheels.com). Specifically, I'm using the HP30-360 clinchers that only weigh 360g per rim. I'm currently using Novatec D771/712 hubs with 24/24 Pillar 1420 spokes for a wheelset weight of 1360g. I'm pretty sure if you took the money you saved from the Canyon and got Extralite hubs you could get it close to 1kg.

Hope this helps! 


Sent from my Metal using Tapatalk


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## mjb152

TimberWolfQX said:


> Hey, no problem dude.
> 
> I've cycled 200+km so far with the frame and have been loving it. Though not stated, it has quite massive tyre clearance for a road bike. I'm running 28mm tyres but could easily fit a 35-38 on it. It's not the best for weight, though, but it is very handsome.
> 
> If you're concerned about weight try looking for the Workswell 112 or Miracle bikes GR028. They are thru-axle frames with generous tyre clearance. Though I'd wager they don't look as good as the RD01
> 
> If you are looking for carbon wheels, do check out the foam-filled models from X-Bike (Carbon Wheels,Carbon Bicycle Manufacturer,Cheap Carbon Wheels-X-Bike Equipment Co.,Ltd.). Specifically, I'm using the HP30-360 clinchers that only weigh 360g per rim. I'm currently using Novatec D771/712 hubs with 24/24 Pillar 1420 spokes for a wheelset weight of 1360g. I'm pretty sure if you took the money you saved from the Canyon and got Extralite hubs you could get it close to 1kg.
> 
> Hope this helps!


thx for that , much appreciated. I'm looking for as aero as possible, it'll be used solely for road cycling, so probably 25mm max tyre width.
Some good links there, the workswell GR029 is in the ball park, but I'd prefer something more aero. (and ideally quick release, but I don't know whether that'd sacrifice some stability or not)


----------



## TimberWolfQX

mjb152 said:


> thx for that , much appreciated. I'm looking for as aero as possible, it'll be used solely for road cycling, so probably 25mm max tyre width.
> Some good links there, the workswell GR029 is in the ball park, but I'd prefer something more aero. (and ideally quick release, but I don't know whether that'd sacrifice some stability or not)


Oops, the CX028 and GR029 are identical if I'm not wrong. And they are very similar to the Workswell. 

The RD01 definitely looks more aero but being a casual user myself I can't tell the difference. Mine is set up more as a hybrid/commuter. 

I'm currently rolling Schwalbe Pro Ones, and couldn't be happier. Especially at 28mm they soak up the bumps.

Sent from my Metal using Tapatalk


----------



## Freeman

TimberWolfQX said:


> Oops, the CX028 and GR029 are identical if I'm not wrong. And they are very similar to the Workswell. /QUOTE]
> 
> The only difference is 2mm extra tyre clearance for the CX028. I asked the guy at Miracle Bike last night. Also the price went up by over £5 last night, dollar price the same though. Pound sucks at the moment. If you want that bike to come in under £2K, you might have to buy your frame sharpish mjb152.


----------



## TimberWolfQX

Freeman said:


> TimberWolfQX said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oops, the CX028 and GR029 are identical if I'm not wrong. And they are very similar to the Workswell. /QUOTE]
> 
> The only difference is 2mm extra tyre clearance for the CX028. I asked the guy at Miracle Bike last night. Also the price went up by over £5 last night, dollar price the same though. Pound sucks at the moment. If you want that bike to come in under £2K, you might have to buy your frame sharpish mjb152.
> 
> 
> 
> Good to know, thanks!
> 
> And yeah, might be a good time to make a purchase. Let us see the bike when it's ready!
> 
> Sent from my Metal using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


----------



## TimberWolfQX

mjb152 said:


> thx for that , much appreciated. I'm looking for as aero as possible, it'll be used solely for road cycling, so probably 25mm max tyre width.
> Some good links there, the workswell GR029 is in the ball park, but I'd prefer something more aero. (and ideally quick release, but I don't know whether that'd sacrifice some stability or not)


Oh, and regarding quick release, if you have disc brakes, a thru-axle helps when you remove and reattach the wheels. You won't have problems with disc alignment like with a quick release, where you have to be more careful to avoid brake rub.

Sent from my Metal using Tapatalk


----------



## mjb152

TimberWolfQX said:


> Oh, and regarding quick release, if you have disc brakes, a thru-axle helps when you remove and reattach the wheels. You won't have problems with disc alignment like with a quick release, where you have to be more careful to avoid brake rub.
> 
> Sent from my Metal using Tapatalk


 excellent, thanks again.


----------



## bruto

Don't buy from Miraclebike if you can help it
**** company, no warranty to speak of


----------



## Freeman

bruto said:


> Don't buy from Miraclebike if you can help it
> **** company, no warranty to speak of



I was really thinking about getting the CX028. As I like the fact that you can change the rear drop out from QR to Thru axle and back again with the hangers.

Is this from personal experience bruto? Recommend anyone else with similar spec frame? 
Cheers


----------



## bruto

My experience with Miraclebike is this: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bi...rect-version-7-0-a-346068-23.html#post5039657
open mold frames are available from many merchants, you just have to search a little more


----------



## Freeman

TimberWolfQX said:


> Freeman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good to know, thanks!
> 
> And yeah, might be a good time to make a purchase. Let us see the bike when it's ready!
> 
> Sent from my Metal using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> TimberWolfQX Love the photos with MBS in the background
> Makes me long for bak kut teh and Chicken rice haha.
Click to expand...


----------



## Freeman

bruto said:


> My experience with Miraclebike is this: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bi...rect-version-7-0-a-346068-23.html#post5039657
> open mold frames are available from many merchants, you just have to search a little more



Fair play Bruto, I do actually remember reading that now. I was wondering why I kept looking for reviews on their FR028 fork.


----------



## aske

bruto said:


> My experience with Miraclebike is this: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bi...rect-version-7-0-a-346068-23.html#post5039657
> open mold frames are available from many merchants, you just have to search a little more


That sucks. But there was actually another guy on here who got a complete replace, even with a gift included, when his Miracle frame failed. Anyways, it can apparently be a lottery with those warranties. 
I have good experience with Yishun and Huyi Tech. None of them have their own aliexpress/ebay shops. But they can both be found on Alibaba and their own web sites. I think Huyi Tech is also supplying an aliexpress shop. Top Cycle or something. 
Yishun is supplying the Italian GIOS brand and the Spanish wheel brand Progress and Huyi is subcontracting for big Taiwanese manufacturers, but couldn't tell me which brands because of a signed NDA (I suspect Fuji is one of them). They also have a close relationship with the Taiwanese A-Pro who are supplying different big brands. They are selling some of their open mould frames and forks.
These are the best Chinese manufacturers I've found so far. With the best "resumes" 


Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


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## zabaran

I recently picked up the "2017 Gravel Bike frame" From Velobuild.
2017 Gravel Bike frame

Looks the same as this frame someone posted before.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...Carbon-Bike-Frame-Gravel-Di2/32787589314.html

The frame looks solid so far, I dont like the look of the chain guard on the frame since it wasnt shown on the pictures they posted and the cable routing through the fork.

The biggest challenge right now is finding 700c Thru-Axle Disc Brake wheels. The only sub $1000 set I've found is OEM Bontrager from a LBS in town.


----------



## le duke

zabaran said:


> I recently picked up the "2017 Gravel Bike frame" From Velobuild.
> 2017 Gravel Bike frame
> 
> Looks the same as this frame someone posted before.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...Carbon-Bike-Frame-Gravel-Di2/32787589314.html
> 
> The frame looks solid so far, I dont like the look of the chain guard on the frame since it wasnt shown on the pictures they posted and the cable routing through the fork.
> 
> The biggest challenge right now is finding 700c Thru-Axle Disc Brake wheels. The only sub $1000 set I've found is OEM Bontrager from a LBS in town.


Huh?

80% of mountain bikes I see are 29ers. Which use 700c rims, and most of them use disc brakes. You can walk into any LBS and buy some pre built through axle MTB wheels, most of which are convertible.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


----------



## TimberWolfQX

Freeman said:


> TimberWolfQX said:
> 
> 
> 
> TimberWolfQX Love the photos with MBS in the background
> Makes me long for bak kut teh and Chicken rice haha.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey! Glad you like them! When did you visit? Let me know if you're in town. There's lots more good food here.
> 
> QX
> 
> Sent from my Metal using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


----------



## TimberWolfQX

le duke said:


> Huh?
> 
> 80% of mountain bikes I see are 29ers. Which use 700c rims, and most of them use disc brakes. You can walk into any LBS and buy some pre built through axle MTB wheels, most of which are convertible.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


As le duke said,

29er and 700c rims are essentially the same, with the caveat that the 700c designation tends to be narrower in width, while the 29er can go a lot wider to accommodate fatter MTB tires.

Also note, importantly, that rims with a 29er designation tend to have lower pressure ratings than those with 700c. A 700c rim might take 120psi, but a 29er rim might only be rated for 60psi. If you try to run road tires on a MTB rim, the rim might blow apart.

I'm running 30mm depth/23mm width clinchers from X-Bike wheels with 28mm Schwalbe Pro One tubeless tires in a disc brake setup. They're the lightest clincher rims that I've found so far in the Chinese carbon marketplace. You should be able to spec disc brake hubs when you purchase a wheelset.

Complete wheel specs below:
Rims: X-Bike HP30-360 (30mm depth, 360g each)
Hubs: Novatec D771/772SB 24/24 Spokes
Spokes: Pillar X-tra 1420

You could use a lighter D411/412SB hub, or get DT Swiss or Extralite if you're feeling fancy. 

The company can be found on Alibaba if you're interested. There are many others too if you look, and they should be willing to build a wheel to your specs.

Hope this helps!
QX

Sent from my Metal using Tapatalk


----------



## zabaran

le duke said:


> Huh?
> 
> 80% of mountain bikes I see are 29ers. Which use 700c rims, and most of them use disc brakes. You can walk into any LBS and buy some pre built through axle MTB wheels, most of which are convertible.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


To my knowledge 11spd road freehub bodies are longer than 11sp mtb and aren't compatible. 29er wheels should work fine with every other group set if they're 11. Also you'd probably want really narrow mtb rim to run 25s or a trainer tire in the winter 

That or I'm wrong and my wheel selection will grow


----------



## Bigsy

zabaran said:


> I recently picked up the "2017 Gravel Bike frame" From Velobuild.
> 2017 Gravel Bike frame
> 
> Looks the same as this frame someone posted before.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...Carbon-Bike-Frame-Gravel-Di2/32787589314.html
> 
> The frame looks solid so far, I dont like the look of the chain guard on the frame since it wasnt shown on the pictures they posted and the cable routing through the fork.
> 
> The biggest challenge right now is finding 700c Thru-Axle Disc Brake wheels. The only sub $1000 set I've found is OEM Bontrager from a LBS in town.


RE wheels I found a way round this by going for 30mm deep carbon 29er wheels.

I got a set for £280 with powerway m32 hubs which are quite light (total wheelset is 1600g).

Now interestingly they are 25mm inside diameter and 30mm outside and hookless and can be run tubeless if you want... now this is pretty much the same as the latest road disc rims from Enve and praxis etc.

So basically for pretty minimal cost you can get a wheel with very similar dimensions and weight as the ENVE SES 45 AR

BTW I've had 28mm tyres on them upto 90psi (to pop the bead) and have no issue with them being hookless, and being so wide I can easy run at about 40psi for a silky smooth ride.


----------



## mjb152

anybody built a Dengfu R04 ? looks quite nice, can't find any mention of it anywhere else.

https://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/produ...04_new_disc_brake_road_bike_carbon_frame.html


----------



## TSur

If anyone is looking for a 58cm Hong Fu FM169 Avenger R8 I will be putting mine I used last season on eBay in the next week or so. I want to try a little larger frame this next season, so I am in the process of parting it out now. It is the unpainted or matte black version. Cost was $763 shipped. Most likely be putting it on eBay for $400+50 shipping.


----------



## ruckus

Lightbike LCR004-V looks nice, but I think I'll wait to see more info on the HongFu HF-FM008.


----------



## Oracle7775

All, I ordered a frame from Hongfu just before the Chinese holidays. I had forgotten about the Chinese holiday and the fact that it would delay the frame for over a month. I then found a new frame from a different source, so I messaged them right away and asked them to cancel the sale and refund my paypal account. It took a while for them to respond (again, holidays), but I got a cryptic message this morning:

I am sorry for the late reply, I was on holidays and didn't check the message.

the frame aready arranged, if you need urgent, you can consdier the model Fm169?

I can give you the same discount as Fm098.

thanks so much!

nancy


Does this mean they're going to refund the money, or is she just trying to sell me something else so as not to lose my business? I mailed her back, saying no thanks, just give me the money. Should I expect a fight on my hands here? Everything I read here and elsewhere said that Hongfu's customer service was very good.


----------



## Migen21

It sounds to me like 'nancy' is saying you can either stick with your existing order and get it whenever it's ready, or change to the FM169 and get it faster.

I don't see where they are saying anything about a refund (I seriously doubt that will happen at this point).

I would probably write back and ask for clarification on the status of the original order, and if they reply with something unreasonable, tell them very directly you want a refund. You may end up having to deal with Paypal if you want to ever see that money again.


----------



## Oracle7775

Migen21 said:


> It sounds to me like 'nancy' is saying you can either stick with your existing order and get it whenever it's ready, or change to the FM169 and get it faster.
> 
> I don't see where they are saying anything about a refund (I seriously doubt that will happen at this point).
> 
> I would probably write back and ask for clarification on the status of the original order, and if they reply with something unreasonable, tell them very directly you want a refund. You may end up having to deal with Paypal if you want to ever see that money again.


Yeah, I told her in no uncertain terms that I expected a full refund. That's why I paid with Paypal, because I know they offer protections.


----------



## ruckus

That's my understanding as well. That would not work for me since the model she offers would require different brakes. Does Paypal really cover remorse purchase?

Anyway, I sent in inquiry for the FM008 w/ BSA. Checks all the boxes for me, I'll try to build it with 5800.


----------



## cage.

Oracle7775 said:


> That's why I paid with Paypal, because I know they offer protections.


Paypal protection doesn't apply simply because you have changed your mind.


----------



## ruckus

HongFu replied, $710. Ridiculous for an open frame, made from carbon of unknown origin. 

Building with open-frame was fun while it lasted with cheap prices. But $710 is way too much, for few extra dollars I can get a name brand frame, w/ customer service, warranty, and assurance of quality. CAAD 12 frame can be had for around the same, CAAD 10 for less. I would have bought if they quoted me $450-500, $710 is too much unless they could prove some sort of R&D, and source for their materials.


----------



## bruto

These guys do open mold frames too, in Taiwan: https://www.edge-design.com.tw/
You'll be surprised how much they want for their products 
Maybe the production quality is exceptional, but I wouldn't know unless I bought one myself... and cut it up

Where do you get a new CAAD12 for $700, by the way? If it's the last one in unpopular size from 2 years ago, it's not really a fair comparison. You can/could find heavily discounted prestige frames like Storck or Ridley Noah Fast in discount stores, but no competing merchant will take that as a reference point.


----------



## Oracle7775

cage. said:


> Paypal protection doesn't apply simply because you have changed your mind.


It's not because I changed my mind. It's because I asked when the frame would be delivered, and they refused to tell me until after I had ordered. Only then did I find out it would be months. That's intentionally misleading a buyer. It's also terrible customer service.


----------



## tlg

Oracle7775 said:


> It's not because I changed my mind. It's because I asked when the frame would be delivered, and they refused to tell me until after I had ordered. Only then did I find out it would be months. That's intentionally misleading a buyer. It's also terrible customer service.


It's quite simple, if you didn't like the terms of the deal, then you shouldn't have entered into the deal. Refusing to tell you when it would be delivered isn't misleading you.

Would you go to a car dealer to buy a car, have them refuse to tell you when it would be available, and then say "OK, here's my money".


----------



## Oracle7775

tlg said:


> It's quite simple, if you didn't like the terms of the deal, then you shouldn't have entered into the deal. Refusing to tell you when it would be delivered isn't misleading you.
> 
> Would you go to a car dealer to buy a car, have them refuse to tell you when it would be available, and then say "OK, here's my money".


Not true, at least in the U.S. The law requires full disclosure of all material terms. I'd take this case to court and win here (I'm a commercial litigator). But I understand what you guys are all saying. Shame on me. I get it. I don't agree, but I get it.

Anyway, I had a brainstorm. Hongfu sells wheels too, so I inquired as to whether they would be willing to swap the frame order for a comparably priced wheel set. That way everyone goes home happy. I know many people who post on this thread have dealt with this company and have had generally good things to say about their customer service, so I'm cautiously optimistic that they'll agree. 

If not... is anyone interested in a very reasonably priced 54cm chinese aero frameset?


----------



## tlg

Oracle7775 said:


> Not true, at least in the U.S. The law requires full disclosure of all material terms. I'd take this case to court and win here (I'm a commercial litigator).


 That's 1000% untrue. Once you paid you agreed to the terms. The terms were: shipping date unknown and you'd get it AFTER you ordered. You admittedly paid knowing this. There was nothing further to disclose.
Once you paid, you did get the shipping date. Just as agreed upon.


commercial litigator?


----------



## Oracle7775

Those aren't the facts. Like I said, I don't agree (and I would win the case), but I'm not really interested in getting into a dispute. I was just looking for insight from others who have dealt with Hongfu to see what I can expect from their customer service. Cheers my friend.


----------



## ruckus

I'm inquiring on newest WorksWell WCB-R-093. It looks like a lightweight enduro style frame, some influences from Canyon.

Has anyone built up a WCB-R-066? I may go with the 85 depending on the price of the 93. I rather like 85's BSA, don't want to mess with BBright or any of the press fit mess. Also prefer the 85 not being a R5 clone.

I am happy with how well my Flyxii has held up, but Flyxii doesn't seem to have any interest in lightweight/endurance type frames right now. How is WorksWell? I really like WorksWell sells on Ebay, I trust Ebay more than Aliexpress/Alibaba. Maybe just me, but my buying experience with Ali has been, Ali protects the seller, Ebay protects the customer.


----------



## BigPoser

ruckus said:


> I'm inquiring on newest WorksWell WCB-R-093. It looks like a lightweight enduro style frame, some influences from Canyon.
> 
> Has anyone built up a WCB-R-066? I may go with the 85 depending on the price of the 93. I rather like 85's BSA, don't want to mess with BBright or any of the press fit mess. Also prefer the 85 not being a R5 clone.
> 
> I am happy with how well my Flyxii has held up, but Flyxii doesn't seem to have any interest in lightweight/endurance type frames right now. How is WorksWell? I really like WorksWell sells on Ebay, I trust Ebay more than Aliexpress/Alibaba. Maybe just me, but my buying experience with Ali has been, Ali protects the seller, Ebay protects the customer.


I have a Workswell R-066 and it's legit. Frame was 849 grams in a 56cm. There are many others that have the same frame (search on Weight Weenies) that have been very happy. $450 shipped to my door was a nice bonus. I would buy from them again without a doubt. I ended up contacting them directly and handled payment through Paypal.


----------



## ruckus

BigPoser said:


> I have a Workswell R-066 and it's legit. Frame was 849 grams in a 56cm. There are many others that have the same frame (search on Weight Weenies) that have been very happy. $450 shipped to my door was a nice bonus. I would buy from them again without a doubt. I ended up contacting them directly and handled payment through Paypal.


[email protected]?
Or did you use skype?


----------



## BigPoser

ruckus said:


> [email protected]?
> Or did you use skype?



Emailed.


----------



## ruckus

WorksWell says the 93 is not real yet, not available. So it's down to 85 or 66 or just wait until 93 is available. 93 looks awesome.

I'm leaning towards the 66. @BigPoser did you use the included BB or use aftermarket?


----------



## BigPoser

ruckus said:


> WorksWell says the 93 is not real yet, not available. So it's down to 85 or 66 or just wait until 93 is available. 93 looks awesome.
> 
> I'm leaning towards the 66. @BigPoser did you use the included BB or use aftermarket?


I did not. It came with it but I told them not to install it. Since I have Chorus I went with a BBInfinite BB. Kinda scary pressing it in, but it's been rock solid.


----------



## ruckus

So I was musing about American hypocrisy regarding Chinese frames.

When someone says they bought a MOOTS, no one cries, you bastard! Don't buy from them, they have no proof their bikes are safe! Support the big brands, Specialized needs your money! Don't buy from Linksey, they are using stolen technology from other titanium builders before them! They are just a knockoff Moots! Don't support the knockoffs, buy Motobecane. Or whatever other nonsense they can think of.


----------



## ruckus

Alright that diatribe aside...

I am awaiting a paypal invoice from WorksWell for a WCB-R-085, 52, BSA English Threaded, UD Matte for $399, including frame, fork and seatpost.

I'm looking forward to an endurance type frame, hopefully less fatigue on my back and overall enjoyable ride. I have come to acceptance I am not a performance rider.


----------



## Oracle7775

Quick follow up to my Hongfu story. I ended up emailing someone else-"Jenny"- to find out what was going on with "Nancy" and why she wasn't responding. Turns out Nancy was still on vacation for the Chinese holidays, and just got back yesterday. I had a very nice email exchange with her yesterday, they would have given me the refund, but I opted to change my orders to a wheelset with upgraded hubs, and they threw in a couple of bottle cages as well.

So, all's well that ends well. Hongfu customer service came through and I should have my new wheels in hand within a couple of weeks.

Lesson learned: don't order from Chinese companies around the Chinese new year!


----------



## bruto

In case anyone's interested: Cyclocross Version Carbon Fiber Road Bike Frame With Disc-brake Mount - Buy Carbon Disc-brake Road Frame,Cross,Carbon Road Frame Product on Alibaba.com

has both disc brake and DM rim brake mounts
rear spacing 135mm only, however - no conversion dropouts (but you can make some 2.5mm spacers yourself, I guess)

geometry:
View attachment 317964


Judging by the RC and fork length, tire clearance should be generous (unconfirmed)


----------



## elorablue

Ok, hello all. New here. 
I've just read all 36 pages of this thread...informative but exhausting.

The frame I'm interested in is the Carbonda/Billfish CFR505. Billfish appears to be their retail brand on Aliexpress and the other retail sites.

CFR505 - Gravel - Carbonda Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/BIL...lgo_pvid=2200ca58-9ddc-47a4-824b-6ef1d27db8e8


For those who have ordered this frame or better yet, received this frame, do you have any updates or opinions on the process?
I noticed one review said the seat post didn't fit properly in the seat tube which obviously would be unacceptable.

I understand and accept the risks/reward involved in ordering a frame such as this but I'm trying to do my utmost due diligence before I order.

Thanks for any further information


----------



## ruckus

So I'm annoyed, but oh well, nothing can be done.

I decided the 085 sloping top tube and that humongous head tube was just too stupid for a road bike. I can't find any branded enduro frame close to it, it's just ridiculous.

So they obliged, 066 coming. But it's been delayed for another 2 weeks. So overall, this transaction is going to take probably about a month or more than a month. Annoyed since last frame I got was 4 days. 

Just more time for me to do plants, crunches, and interval runs to get in better in shape, adjust my diet for more intense weight loss.


----------



## Bluechip

Not sure exactly what you're saying about humongous head tube. It seems to be inline with a lot of the latest endurance type bikes (Synapse, Defy). Similar stack and reach of some of the other brands with shorter head tubes (Trek, Specialized).



ruckus said:


> So I'm annoyed, but oh well, nothing can be done.
> 
> I decided the 085 sloping top tube and that humongous head tube was just too stupid for a road bike. I can't find any branded enduro frame close to it, it's just ridiculous.


----------



## ruckus

Similar, but it is larger. For a 52, that headtube is 15cm, that's moronic. The rake is I suppose average, but doesn't help with the massive HT. Seattube is only 475, with a stack of 546 and massive HT, it looks more like a MTB frame than a road frame to me. Looks dumb.

With Giant, it's explainable because it's an extreme compact design.


----------



## James6b

Here's my contribution...

FLYXII-FLX-FR-320 50cm for the wife.

I cannibalized my geared road bike for the Microshift Arsis components and paired them with a Shimano 105 crankset. Various other bits and pieces purchased via E-Bay & Chain Reaction like the Sora mechanical disc brakes. 

I got a chuckle when I picked it up from my LBS after having them fine tune the derailleurs & brake pads. The mechanic couldn't find my brand (2 Monkeys) anywhere on the Web. He's worked on my former road bike which was a stripped & bare aluminum Trek with the same "brand name".

Now seeing it didn't turn out too bad I'll order another for me.

"Yeah...those are just custom decals I had made referencing the kids."


----------



## bruto

they oughta make pink hoods for dem microshifts


----------



## James6b

Overkill :thumbsup:


----------



## ruckus

Very nice bike. I wonder if there is pink hood. I know I have seen aftermarket colored hoods for Shimano brifters. Maybe same for micro?


----------



## meeeeep

Has anyone had any experience dealing with a disc road frame and chainline? I'm wondering if I have to worry about this as I'm looking to build a road disc bike.


----------



## avria

Hey guys 

I've got a quick question, i've read somewhere (cant recall where) on this forum that its a good idea to ask how many layers of carbon they used.

apparently i was quoted 5 layers and 7 layers carbon used for the same open mould frame. 

but as i thought about it, could one just base off the amount of layers used as a good indicator of which is a more stiffer / sturdier frame?


additionally has anyone heard of trident thrust? are they any good?


----------



## Migen21

There aren't a uniform number of layers throughout the bike - and the matte type used is different in different areas - serves different purposes.


----------



## ruckus

For anyone who wants to buy from WorksWell I can't recommend, the purchasing process was hell.

Purchased February 10th

I was lied to repeatedly over and over.

I was told the frame was ready to be shipped, they begged for me to pay right away so they could start. First lie.

I was then told it would be shipped on the 22nd of February. Lie.

I was told it was taking a while because it was in QC. Yep, QC for two weeks. Lie.

I was told the 28th. Nope, lie.

Then I was told the 4th. Nope Lie. 

I was given a tracking number on the 4th, yep shipped. Nope, lie.

Next week, tracking says it was picked up a week later. Later confirmed with another employee that it was shipped that day, not the 4th.

I was then told it was shipped express and I would have it in at least five days. Lie.

It's not seven days, it still hasn't left China. I don't know, this is the worst customer service I have experienced from anyone.

Apparently someone else ordered a large order of frames. But I told them, I don't care about another customer, I care about me, my purchase. You don't tell me you have available and ready to ship and not ship it. I really don't care about another customer's order.

I told them, you don't lie to your customer. If you have good reasons for delay, you don't tell them it's ready to be shipped. If you tell me, it will be shipped 28th, 18 days after I purchased, SHIP IT! 18 days, that's moronic. Don't lie to me. Don't tell me it was shipped express if package sits in China for seven days or more, since it still hasn't left China.

This was a horrible experience, or rather is, since I still don't have the frame.


----------



## KiloKilo7

Hello,

I am considering a Miracle CX536 Carbon frame purchase. I have researched reviews, and do not see anyone reporting major failure issues? Does anyone have any insight to the quality of these frames? HAS ANYONE SEEN a failure report concerning a Miracle Carbon frame?

ED


----------



## Steve B.

@Ruckus

Not understanding why you are still dealing with this.

At the first sign of questionable communication, I would have had my CC company cancel.

Then I would have gone elsewhere. It's not like there aren't a few other companies making identical or similar enough for your needs. 

FWIW, I had a very good experience with Flyxii, ordered and received in less then 2 weeks. Only hold up was US customs at JFK, that took 3 anxious days for some unkown reason. Thing I learned with a Chinese order is communication is an issue and to be patient.


----------



## ruckus

Steve B. said:


> @Ruckus
> 
> Not understanding why you are still dealing with this.
> 
> At the first sign of questionable communication, I would have had my CC company cancel.
> 
> Then I would have gone elsewhere. It's not like there aren't a few other companies making identical or similar enough for your needs.
> 
> FWIW, I had a very good experience with Flyxii, ordered and received in less then 2 weeks. Only hold up was US customs at JFK, that took 3 anxious days for some unkown reason. Thing I learned with a Chinese order is communication is an issue and to be patient.


My Flyxii arrived in 5 days. But I wanted a more relaxed frame.

It is still not here. Still refusal to find out when I can expect the frame. No estimate. I don't know what is going on as this supposedly was EMS express, but it has been 11 going on 12 days now.


----------



## bruto

KiloKilo7 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am considering a Miracle CX536 Carbon frame purchase. I have researched reviews, and do not see anyone reporting major failure issues? Does anyone have any insight to the quality of these frames? HAS ANYONE SEEN a failure report concerning a Miracle Carbon frame?
> 
> ED


I've seen a failure of a Miraclebike carbon fork, from the first row 
photos posted in this very thread last year - you can search my posts if curious


----------



## KiloKilo7

Thank you. That seems to be an issue with the disc brake putting too much stress on the lower fork blade. The CX536 I am looking at has rim brakes. I am wondering if Miracle frames are on par with most brand name frames in terms of safety.

I have seen many brand name companies working through disc and fork issues, maybe because it is relatively new technology:

https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2014/bmc-recalls-three-models-of-bicycles


----------



## bruto

there're recalls & replacements and there's haggling over the refund
1) why use cantis in this day and age?
2) steer clear of Miraclebike, plenty of CX frames around


----------



## bruto

KiloKilo7 said:


> I have seen many brand name companies working through disc and fork issues, maybe because it is relatively new technology:
> 
> https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2014/bmc-recalls-three-models-of-bicycles


haha, Aprebic forks
likely made by YiErLan (their affiliate manufacturer for low to mid-level products)
whose disc brake fork I am riding now 
It's a newer model, though

that one failed in testing though, no incidents reported
this here was an actual life endangering incident but Miraclebike didn't give a f*ck


----------



## aske

bruto said:


> haha, Aprebic forks
> likely made by YiErLan (their affiliate manufacturer for low to mid-level products)
> whose disc brake fork I am riding now
> It's a newer model, though
> 
> that one failed in testing though, no incidents reported
> this here was an actual life endangering incident but Miraclebike didn't give a f*ck


Ha! I didn't know about that affiliation. How did you get that insight?
How do you like the YiErlan fork? Still on the Miracle frame?

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## bruto

they make no secret of their affiliation, you can look at the SGS test reports on Yierlan's site
and then there're suspiciously similar products in their respective catalogs 

never had a Miraclebike frame, by the way, only the fork


----------



## KiloKilo7

1. My question concerned the general safety of Miracle frames. I have also heard good stories of Miracle service.

2. I want to use canti's because they are lighter, less maintenance, lower cost. I do long distance gravel paths (GAP, C&O trails) with very light cyclocross races

3. Miracle has some good pricing, just need to know if these are decent frames. I accept the warranty risk at these prices.


----------



## aske

bruto said:


> they make no secret of their affiliation, you can look at the SGS test reports on Yierlan's site
> and then there're suspiciously similar products in their respective catalogs
> 
> never had a Miraclebike frame, by the way, only the fork


BMC and YiErlan? Can't find the obvious similarities from their respective websites. Their SGS reports, i can find, are too low res for me to read anything. But I always like digging these information out...

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## bruto

Aprebic and Yierlan
ShenZhen YiErLan Sports Equipment Technology Co.,Ltd and Carbon Fiber, Carbon Frame Manufacturer - Aprebic Industry Co., Ltd. - Taiwan, China, Asia, Carbon Bike, Carbon Bicycle Supplier, Exporter and Seller


----------



## aske

bruto said:


> Aprebic and Yierlan
> ShenZhen YiErLan Sports Equipment Technology Co.,Ltd and Carbon Fiber, Carbon Frame Manufacturer - Aprebic Industry Co., Ltd. - Taiwan, China, Asia, Carbon Bike, Carbon Bicycle Supplier, Exporter and Seller


Arh, got it. APro is also displaying Evo/Aprebic components and a Chinese manufacturer I'm dealing with now, is also selling APro and Evo/Aprebic frames and forks. That company is also subcontracting for Taiwanese companies.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## KiloKilo7

Ok, after more sniffing around I found some pretty compelling, well documented long term reviews of Miracle frames (eg FM286) not holding up very well. The question is, are there any Chinese frame makers out there that do have solid cyclocross frames?


----------



## aske

The Fr-602 from Flyxii has gotten good reviews on the corresponding chinese carbon cyclocross thread. I have not yet heard about any flaws or failures with that frameset. If you live in (or near) UK you can even buy it from Ribble Ribble CR3 CX - Carbon Cyclocross - Ribble Cycles. Then you also get law-backed warranty and such. 
If you, like many in here, like to build your own, then I think Flyxii is a good merchant to deal with. I have not used them, but bought an identical frameset directly from a manufacturer and have been happy with it right until I was run down by a car. The frame cracked, but handled the failure decently. Btw, Flyxii is a merchant, not a manufacturer. I don't know where Flyxii get their frames made.


----------



## fronesis

aske said:


> The Fr-602 from Flyxii has gotten good reviews on the corresponding chinese carbon cyclocross thread. I have not yet heard about any flaws or failures with that frameset. If you live in (or near) UK you can even buy it from Ribble Ribble CR3 CX - Carbon Cyclocross - Ribble Cycles. Then you also get law-backed warranty and such.
> If you, like many in here, like to build your own, then I think Flyxii is a good merchant to deal with. I have not used them, but bought an identical frameset directly from a manufacturer and have been happy with it right until I was run down by a car. The frame cracked, but handled the failure decently. Btw, Flyxii is a merchant, not a manufacturer. I don't know where Flyxii get their frames made.


Ive got about 4,000 miles on a FR-602. Great bike. I have a total of about 13,000 miles on 4 different flyxii frames in my household. Their current offerings don't capture the latest trends (no flat disc road bikes, no "gravel" bikes) but many of their frames are tried and true and all my customer service experiences have been great.


----------



## Steve B.

Not as many miles on my Flyxii FR322, but a good experience.

2 days from PayPal order to shipment and I think 10 days in shipment, including 3 at US customs at JFK. Flyxii responded promptly to any e-mail queries.

The bike built up just fine and if I was in the market again, I'd go back to them.


----------



## bugly64

*oops I did it again...*

This is my fourth Chinese carbon frame. Just got this Flyxii FLX-FR-906. I am going mostly Dura Ace 10 speed. I hope to keep it under 16 lbs. I will post more pics when my fork gets here.


----------



## bruto

what happened to the previous 3?


----------



## bugly64

I sold one. I messed up a drop out on one. I traded one because I didn't like the disc brakes.


----------



## ruckus

bugly64 said:


> This is my fourth Chinese carbon frame. Just got this Flyxii FLX-FR-906. I am going mostly Dura Ace 10 speed. I hope to keep it under 16 lbs. I will post more pics when my fork gets here.





bugly64 said:


>


I liked how well FR-322 held up, was in great condition, sold the frame to some college kid for $150, he lucked out, only had one chip on the chainstay when I went off road for a bit on it. I didn't like the 906 or the 905. The seatpost is 31.6. The fork too beefy, though seatstays look ok. Headtube even if they were going for aero too much material. And weird to say, but 1220g too heavy. I also didn't like the cable guide under bottom bracket wasn't removable, so if you lose those sleeves, trying to run cable through that will be impossible.

I opted for WorksWell. Terrible communication, just told me whatever she thought I wanted to hear rather than truth. Overall wait time was about 1 3/4 months, compared to Flyxii 5 days. Oh well. Checks all the boxes.


----------



## bugly64

Well, I hope I like this frame when it's all together. Now, I am just paranoid.


----------



## roubaix_sj

anyone have any experience buying from these guys ? 
BIKE :


----------



## DaveT

roubaix_sj said:


> anyone have any experience buying from these guys ?
> BIKE :


Looking at the website and what they carry (everything seems to be in stock) my opinion is the best thing that would happen is that you'll get a genuine fake counterfeit frame. The worst thing will be that you get nothing. Complete high-end Ultegra equipped bikes? Seriously you think that's true?


----------



## roubaix_sj

DaveT said:


> Looking at the website and what they carry (everything seems to be in stock) my opinion is the best thing that would happen is that you'll get a genuine fake counterfeit frame. The worst thing will be that you get nothing. Complete high-end Ultegra equipped bikes? Seriously you think that's true?


I'm looking for a replica, fake, counterfeit. I just want to know if anyone bought from them ?


----------



## ruckus

roubaix_sj said:


> I'm looking for a replica, fake, counterfeit. I just want to know if anyone bought from them ?


This is the wrong forum for counterfeits, replicas and fakes. Look elsewhere.


----------



## aske

ruckus said:


> This is the wrong forum for counterfeits, replicas and fakes. Look elsewhere.


Yes, this forum mainly deals with open moulds. I would be VERY cautious with counterfeits. It's usually in the counterfeits you see funky construction with old news paper and other cheap fillers.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## J-dubya

Please recommend Chinese carbon frames (vendors) for an Endurance (comfy and light) geometry that has enough clearance for 28s (bonus points for 32s) conventional caliper brakes (not funded for discs yet).
54- 55 top tube
3k Matte
Custom decals and finish a bonus
High quality product and customer service.
Thanks,
JW


----------



## asherandjacob

Yo Bugly, what do you think of that handlebar, have you ridden it? ive had 3 chinese frames and I know they are good, but the carbon handlebar i had off them 4/5 years ago was a bit flexy for my liking. that one just looks so sexy though and its easy to find so i was tempted to throw few quid at one


----------



## K.Kincaid

Good morning,

First post and I thought I should contribute to the group. Thanks to the information on this site I purchased a Hongfu Avenger R8. I just recently completed the build and have about a 100 miles on the bike and I am very very pleased with the outcome. The bike rides and handles great and is very stiff and responsive, everything I was hoping for. Nancy at Hongfu was very easy to work with and I received instant email communication and everything shipped and went as promised.

I will give a future update as I get more miles logged on the bike.


----------



## asherandjacob

ooo very nice, this is what we need more of, interesting frames covered in blingy bits, do you have weight for it and hows your chainstay brake doing?


heres my old bike in the spirit of things (yes, should have taken a 50)
View attachment 318576


hmmm come out a bit small i think, nvm

sadly, several continent changes in 2015/16 forced sale but im now on a planet x rt-58 alloy ongoing project bike, which makes me an honory member of thread still i reckon!


----------



## avria

Hey has anyone have any knowledge on Huyi tech bikes? are they any good? i assume that if velobuild is using them they should be pretty decent?

i was looking to get a bike off from velobuild (VB-R-068 - carbon fiber aero road frame VB-R-068)

but i figured why not just cut the middle man (velobuild) and go direct to the vendor, so i did a reverse google search and found that Huyi tech should be the ones supplying for velobuild 

see

https://cnszhuyi.en.alibaba.com/pro...SA_Racing_Bicycle_Frame_990g_Lightweight.html

or

https://www.grvstec.com/portfolio-items/carbon-road-frame/


----------



## aske

avria said:


> Hey has anyone have any knowledge on Huyi tech bikes? are they any good? i assume that if velobuild is using them they should be pretty decent?
> 
> i was looking to get a bike off from velobuild (VB-R-068 - carbon fiber aero road frame VB-R-068)
> 
> but i figured why not just cut the middle man (velobuild) and go direct to the vendor, so i did a reverse google search and found that Huyi tech should be the ones supplying for velobuild
> 
> see
> 
> https://cnszhuyi.en.alibaba.com/pro...SA_Racing_Bicycle_Frame_990g_Lightweight.html
> 
> or
> 
> https://www.grvstec.com/portfolio-items/carbon-road-frame/


Hi Avria

I've been dealing with Huyi tech and they are good. They are subcontracting for some of the big Taiwanese companies and are making brand frames. But because of NDA contracts she couldn't tell me which brands. They seem very professional and i really had to dig for this information. It wasn't something​ she threw out there as some kind of quality assurance. They also refuse to do copyrighted decals on frames, which is a good sign imo. They are also supplying an Ali express store, if you wanna go that route. It's called Top-Cycle store.
They are even making some of the open molds with EPS molding, which is the same molding process used in top frames. The standard Chinese open molds are usually made with PU bladder molding.
Communication is good, though sometimes you have to explain things very clear (maybe with an image) for them to understand. But, I guess that's the norm with these dealings.

I have a suspicion that they at least have been producing for the Fuji brand. They had an image at one point from their QA where a guy was reviewing what looks like a Fuji frame... And since they don't do copy stuff... 

They also have a close tie to the big Taiwanese APro manufacturer (also something I had to dig out myself). According to the sales woman I've been talking to: "my boss and APro boss are close friends, sometimes we do business cooperation". What that entails, I don't know.

I did get a crappy seat post at one point. That was a backup, i accepted to receive, because the original seat post was out of stock and had to be manufactured first and I couldn't be bothered to wait. I later ordered the original seat post which seems good quality.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## avria

aske said:


> Hi Avria
> 
> I've been dealing with Huyi tech and they are good. They are subcontracting for some of the big Taiwanese companies and are making brand frames. But because of NDA contracts she couldn't tell me which brands. They seem very professional and i really had to dig for this information. It wasn't something​ she threw out there as some kind of quality assurance. They also refuse to do copyrighted decals on frames, which is a good sign imo. They are also supplying an Ali express store, if you wanna go that route. It's called Top-Cycle store.
> They are even making some of the open molds with EPS molding, which is the same molding process used in top frames. The standard Chinese open molds are usually made with PU bladder molding.
> Communication is good, though sometimes you have to explain things very clear (maybe with an image) for them to understand. But, I guess that's the norm with these dealings.
> 
> I have a suspicion that they at least have been producing for the Fuji brand. They had an image at one point from their QA where a guy was reviewing what looks like a Fuji frame... And since they don't do copy stuff...
> 
> They also have a close tie to the big Taiwanese APro manufacturer (also something I had to dig out myself). According to the sales woman I've been talking to: "my boss and APro boss are close friends, sometimes we do business cooperation". What that entails, I don't know.
> 
> I did get a crappy seat post at one point. That was a backup, i accepted to receive, because the original seat post was out of stock and had to be manufactured first and I couldn't be bothered to wait. I later ordered the original seat post which seems good quality.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


Thanks I appreciate your input, looks like they're really a trustworthy company that has some good QC assurance in place too since if they're dealing with a big taiwanese company.

I'll go ahead and contact them about the bike!


----------



## K.Kincaid

asherandjacob said:


> ooo very nice, this is what we need more of, interesting frames covered in blingy bits, do you have weight for it and hows your chainstay brake doing?
> 
> 
> The bike complete as it sits with Garmin mounted is 6.8kg (built to minimum race weight)
> 
> Brake location has not been a issue, but I only have around 130 miles on it now. The only issue I foresee is the rear brake location making it more difficult to clean, I added an inline brake adjuster so keeping up with pad to rim gap shouldn't be an issue. I will say the direct mount brakes are much more precise and have better modulation and power in my opinion.


----------



## avria

K.Kincaid said:


> Good morning,
> 
> First post and I thought I should contribute to the group. Thanks to the information on this site I purchased a Hongfu Avenger R8. I just recently completed the build and have about a 100 miles on the bike and I am very very pleased with the outcome. The bike rides and handles great and is very stiff and responsive, everything I was hoping for. Nancy at Hongfu was very easy to work with and I received instant email communication and everything shipped and went as promised.
> 
> I will give a future update as I get more miles logged on the bike.
> View attachment 318565



nicely put together, whats the total damage on this build? looks to me its about at least 2000 USD given the rotor 3D and sram etap groupset


----------



## bruto

Avenger guys know their paint jobs too
I really like th elooks of this black-on-black A6: Avenger Cycles


----------



## asherandjacob

good stuff, nothing upsets the chinese carbon haters more than UCI-limit, top specced frames lolol 
i only asked about the brake as it was an area the only other person on the net i could find who had my frame had had trouble with (the frame was specced with TRP's (T922's) at the rear. so i spent $50 on yokozuna cabling to try and head it off, they were ok and fronts (TTV's) were excellent, both were direct mounts.

how is the shifting with etap on a side note, how slow is "slower than di2"? my project has full red about to go on, and the only way is up!

i really want any up to date info on their carbon bars if anyone has, ideally the ones bugly has, but if anyone has had a set in recently would appreciate your thoughts (especially if you are big/heavy/powerful rider, im probably 20/25 kg over ideal racing weight but have single figure bodyfat, so the bars get some torque through them


----------



## K.Kincaid

eTap is working great, if it is slower....big if.. I can't tell a difference. We are talking about milliseconds. It is very smooth and crisp, hasn't missed a beat yet. I'm very satisfied coming from dura-ace mechanical, definitely a step up in performance and ease of set-up. 

I'm using dura-ace brakes, as Sram doesn't produce a direct mount brake at this time, but they are working great paired with the eTap levers. No complaints what so ever.

As to the guy that suggested this build came in around $2k, you must not have built a bike with top of the line components lately.  just the eTap group set and Power2Max Rotor crank was over $2k.


----------



## avria

aske said:


> Hi Avria
> 
> I've been dealing with Huyi tech and they are good. They are subcontracting for some of the big Taiwanese companies and are making brand frames. But because of NDA contracts she couldn't tell me which brands. They seem very professional and i really had to dig for this information. It wasn't something​ she threw out there as some kind of quality assurance. They also refuse to do copyrighted decals on frames, which is a good sign imo. They are also supplying an Ali express store, if you wanna go that route. It's called Top-Cycle store.
> They are even making some of the open molds with EPS molding, which is the same molding process used in top frames. The standard Chinese open molds are usually made with PU bladder molding.
> Communication is good, though sometimes you have to explain things very clear (maybe with an image) for them to understand. But, I guess that's the norm with these dealings.
> 
> I have a suspicion that they at least have been producing for the Fuji brand. They had an image at one point from their QA where a guy was reviewing what looks like a Fuji frame... And since they don't do copy stuff...
> 
> They also have a close tie to the big Taiwanese APro manufacturer (also something I had to dig out myself). According to the sales woman I've been talking to: "my boss and APro boss are close friends, sometimes we do business cooperation". What that entails, I don't know.
> 
> I did get a crappy seat post at one point. That was a backup, i accepted to receive, because the original seat post was out of stock and had to be manufactured first and I couldn't be bothered to wait. I later ordered the original seat post which seems good quality.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk



should i be worried that huyi does carry a cervelo frame?

https://cnszhuyi.en.alibaba.com/pro...nd_bike_frame_high_quality_bicycle_frame.html


----------



## aske

avria said:


> should i be worried that huyi does carry a cervelo frame?
> 
> https://cnszhuyi.en.alibaba.com/pro...nd_bike_frame_high_quality_bicycle_frame.html


No. A lot of the open molds are "inspired" by branded frames. But there are differences if you look closely. I assume you mean the S5 from Cervelo? They have a different head tube / top tube / down tube joint and it seems like the open mold comes with a beefier fork. But the geometry is quite similar. 
This is nothing to be worried about. It's quite common. Personally, I usually go for the frames that are not so heavily inspired by branded. But that's just a personal preference.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## asherandjacob

Glad to hear etap is the business. its a shame about the sram brakes in general, because as well as not providing direct mount, I think their Hydro units hoods are hideous looking, and i would like to do discs on next build if possible, ive heard great things about the cable actuated hydraulics trp's, which would get round it nicely though.

@avria, the s5 and the open mold are orrible looking bikes, best to steer clear for that reason alone


----------



## bruto

TRP HY/RDd require more cable pull for proper braking than SRAM levers can provide

the front brake can be set up for short stroke and good braking power from the hoods when the caliper is new, but it doesn't last
I bled/serviced them a few times since then, and couldn't reproduce that initial setup 
Changed the cables & housings to Yokozuna Reaction this winter and, counterintuitively, the rear brake has become weaker and no amount of tightening and taking up the cable slack helps


----------



## KiloKilo7

Why buy a cheapo china carbon bike when you can buy this Ridley for $599 shipped? yes, probably made in China, but certainly to a higher standard for retail. I just received one and it is spot on a well made frame:

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/...6cmlkbGV5IHgtbmlnaHQ6MToxOnJpZGxleSB4LW5pZ2h0

Granted, a bit dated, but solid proven reputation for the frameset...


----------



## asherandjacob

KiloKilo7 said:


> Why buy a cheapo china carbon bike when you can buy this Ridley for $599 shipped? yes, probably made in China, but certainly to a higher standard for retail. I just received one and it is spot on a well made frame:
> 
> https://www.competitivecyclist.com/...6cmlkbGV5IHgtbmlnaHQ6MToxOnJpZGxleSB4LW5pZ2h0
> 
> Granted, a bit dated, but solid proven reputation for the frameset...


is this just trolling lol?


----------



## KiloKilo7

No troll here, just trying to show a good deal.... I was seriously looking to buy a china carbon frame, but just don't feel like rolling the dice. Just compared the painted frame I posted to a china frame. It costs less than a black no name china frame...... with a easy return policy...


----------



## asherandjacob

its a cyclocross frame. 
it costs less than SOME chinese frames
you can also have any chinese frame custom painted for like $60.
which dice are you rolling, this thread is 7 v's long and how many complaints are ther
you might as well post a picture of an e-bike and say "hey, if you don't fancy pedalling uphill, try one of these" 
of course, people wanting to read about chinese carbon pedal bikes, wont find that relevant or helpful, coz they dont want a electric assist bike from trek for example, even if it is a good deal

never mind, buy it and have fun riding, start a thread about it elsewhere and review it, paint it in oils, naked, its a free world


----------



## KiloKilo7

*China carbon, so close, yet so far*

Listen, I really wanted to buy a china carbon frame. But if you do a search on this site and google, there are plenty of issues with these frames. Ignorance is bliss. There is no way to validate these frames other than to trade sarcastic anecdotes. I spent months trying to talk to china makers to find information that would give me some sense of the quality and safety of these frames, --but the response I got back to my specific questions from the china carbon makers was so vague, and sometime hilarious ("trust us, we love you, our frames number 1 hot, we don't use much fiberglass"). 

They are so close to a great product if they would just take a few steps to somehow certify their frames in a meaningful way such that I could know that I am not gambling my well being ...



asherandjacob said:


> its a cyclocross frame.
> it costs less than SOME chinese frames
> you can also have any chinese frame custom painted for like $60.
> which dice are you rolling, this thread is 7 v's long and how many complaints are ther
> you might as well post a picture of an e-bike and say "hey, if you don't fancy pedalling uphill, try one of these"
> of course, people wanting to read about chinese carbon pedal bikes, wont find that relevant or helpful, coz they dont want a electric assist bike from trek for example, even if it is a good deal
> 
> never mind, buy it and have fun riding, start a thread about it elsewhere and review it, paint it in oils, naked, its a free world


----------



## asherandjacob

wtf? 
so all of us who have owned ridden and reported on our frames are just meaningless anecdotes? the whole reason for the threads is to build up such meaningless anecdotes together so that they actually take on meaning. 99% of the complaints are down to slow deliveries and comms, cant remember any membes on here with frame failures... remember plenty of wankers saying, they had found this or that photo on internet or their mate knew someone who had a china frame fail etcetc. what you want is them to have MARKETING departments that can say oh yeh, our frames are23.5% stiffer and safer than last years. but then they would cost a lot more while we paid for ad mens salaries.
you have no idea of the product, you havent purchased it. go away.


----------



## avria

asherandjacob said:


> wtf?
> so all of us who have owned ridden and reported on our frames are just meaningless anecdotes? the whole reason for the threads is to build up such meaningless anecdotes together so that they actually take on meaning. 99% of the complaints are down to slow deliveries and comms, cant remember any membes on here with frame failures... remember plenty of wankers saying, they had found this or that photo on internet or their mate knew someone who had a china frame fail etcetc. what you want is them to have MARKETING departments that can say oh yeh, our frames are23.5% stiffer and safer than last years. but then they would cost a lot more while we paid for ad mens salaries.
> you have no idea of the product, you havent purchased it. go away.


stay calm man. everyone's entitled to their own opinions.


----------



## asherandjacob

avria said:


> stay calm man. everyone's entitled to their own opinions.


which i fully understand and respect. thing is, this massive list of forums has room for them all and yet this one, instead of being where owners/buyers/potential buyers of these frames discuss their kit, is ruined over and over again by people just coming along and saying "the chinese are no good". if he really wants his ridley cyclocross frame, cool, start a thread talking about it, in the relevant forum?

i want to hear about buglys bloody carbon bars and a ride report of kincaids blingwagon lol, plus any more long/medium/first ride reports anyone can be arsed writing. thats why i first came to this thread (asherstash1, thread v2.0 i think), the reason i give up is because i dont want to read pages of arguing about whether dave from montana thinks we should all buy moots coz the chinese cant speak english and anyway his mate saw a chinese plough snap once. do you get me bro?

also my ex is being a PITA so im a little tense... sorry:mad2:


----------



## bruto

I know a member who had a chinese carbon fork fail on him
so there's 1 
(of course, there're more of such reports if you really look around)
these things do break, and sometimes without a good reason


----------



## jjaguar

Well, you also tend to only hear from people who are having problems. FWIW, I'm still riding the Ican Aero 007 I built up about 2 1/2 years ago and thousands of miles later. I've had no issues in that time, it's been pretty much like any other normal bike. Hasn't exploded on me yet.

OTOH, the local cycling club won't let me ride with them, they don't allow these frames on their group rides. You don't want one disintegrating in the middle of the pack.


----------



## Bluechip

Seriously? Do they do safety inspections of all bikes to make sure there are no cracks developing?

Or are they just using that as an excuse because they just really don't want to ride with you?  



jjaguar said:


> OTOH, the local cycling club won't let me ride with them, they don't allow these frames on their group rides. You don't want one disintegrating in the middle of the pack.


----------



## aske

jjaguar said:


> OTOH, the local cycling club won't let me ride with them, they don't allow these frames on their group rides. You don't want one disintegrating in the middle of the pack.


That's just silly...


----------



## jjaguar

Bluechip said:


> Or are they just using that as an excuse because they just really don't want to ride with you?


Perhaps. I never can get all the stink out of some of my jerseys. 

But yeah, they start a couple of their weekly rides from the school parking lot just down the street from me. One day I was on a ride and ended up talking with a few of them, and at first they were all like "you should come out for the ride this weekend". But then one asked about the brand of my bike (I have it painted with my own, made-up brand name so he obviously had never heard of it) and when I told them it was a China frame they changed their tune. Not allowed, for all the same reasons everyone always gives for avoiding these frames, but I was welcome if I had a different bike.


----------



## fmendes

jjaguar said:


> when I told them it was a China frame they changed their tune. Not allowed, for all the same reasons everyone always gives for avoiding these frames, but I was welcome if I had a different bike.


Never heard of it although people on my bike ride always ask what's the brand of my Ican. No one complained (yet).


----------



## bvber

jjaguar said:


> But then one asked about the brand of my bike (I have it painted with my own, made-up brand name so he obviously had never heard of it) and when I told them it was a China frame they changed their tune.


I wonder if the result would have been positive if you told them it was Korean brand. How will they prove otherwise...? :idea:


----------



## Dirkkkk17

WS Recommended Road Sizes	
Frame Size center-to-center:	57 cm
Frame Size center-to-top: 59 cm
Overall Reach:	70.50 cm
Saddle Height: 77.70 cm
Handlebar Width:	44 cm

I made Some test online and also thinking about buy frame and wheels from China.

For sure want frame with BSA, was looking for r-022 frame from velobuild.
But also the FM169 frame I really like.

Can somebody give me Some advice??


----------



## jjaguar

bvber said:


> I wonder if the result would have been positive if you told them it was Korean brand. How will they prove otherwise...? :idea:


Yeah, I was too honest. I have the name Cerberus on the downtube, I should've made up a backstory. "Cerberus? They're a small Canadian builder, founded by three former Cervelo engineers that left after it was bought out by that Dutch company..." Maybe a UCI approved sticker would make them happy. 









(Edit: Added pic.)


----------



## bruto

'former UCI executive approved'


----------



## doomfinger

Can anyone recommend some companies that cater more to tall folks? I'm looking for a non-disc road frame and I haven't had much luck. I know Avenger and DengFu have a few in the 58-60 range, but any other options would be much appreciated (particularly if they have anything in the 61cm arena).


----------



## bruto

this large enough for you? Road Bicycle Frame (PRO-R8009-V)
try yishunbike too, there's plenty of frames around

you could also ask a seller like Peter from xmcarbonspeed to pick a frame for you because he probably remembers the numbers for quite a few of them


----------



## asherandjacob

i cant believe they wont let you ride with them, what dicks lol


----------



## ridersyko

Small update and about 18 months since I built mine. I have 3kmiles on my VBR027 now. It has been out of action over winter. Last week I did a 93 mile ride on it.


----------



## ridersyko

So the bike has been great realy. Would i do it again? Probably not.


----------



## fmendes

doomfinger said:


> Can anyone recommend some companies that cater more to tall folks? I'm looking for a non-disc road frame and I haven't had much luck. I know Avenger and DengFu have a few in the 58-60 range, but any other options would be much appreciated (particularly if they have anything in the 61cm arena).


My bike is an Ican A7, 58cm and I'm 6-4" (1.93m). My seat post is some good 2" (5cm) below the minimum insertion. The headset is more on the low side. I'm using 25mm in spacers, which gives a considerably aero position. I could go a bit lower, but my shoulder hurts.


----------



## Winston Mcfail

<blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="CIif8DG"><a href="//imgur.com/CIif8DG"></a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="nOvz5GH"><a href="//imgur.com/nOvz5GH"></a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Noticed I've been lurking here for far too long! Here's a couple of pics of my custom chiner build. So far.. over a 1000 trouble free miles! Love the bike. Full build thread here: Klaster_1's Hongfu FM079 build if you're interested.


----------



## fmendes

After some 1600 miles, the first problem on my Ican A7. Not much related to the frame itself (or wheels, that I also bought from Ican): the headset bearings started to sign like a bird in some bumps on the road. I've heard that the bearing set they provided was not that great, but for free I couldn't complain much. They came with the frame and lasted more than a year.


----------



## fmendes

fmendes said:


> After some 1600 miles, the first problem on my Ican A7. Not much related to the frame itself (or wheels, that I also bought from Ican): the headset bearings started to sign like a bird in some bumps on the road. I've heard that the bearing set they provided was not that great, but for free I couldn't complain much. They came with the frame and lasted more than a year.


Updating my problem: frame and headset are still fine. Problem was actually on my helmet, squeaking from time to time. Go figure...


----------



## DRAwpt

Does anyone know if the Venge clones have the same shape seatpost as the real one? I have a Specialized Allez Sprint which has the S-works seatpost, but unfortunately I cracked it. I'm hoping to not have to pay 2-300$ for a new S-works aero post if possible.

thx


----------



## avria

thought i might add on my experience with chinese carbon.

i bought this frame from trident thrust (formerly known as greatkeen though they might not like to admit it). 

i wanted an aero frame that fit my height (6'5") which limited me a great deal of options from dengfu / hongfu (and i didn't quite like the fm98).

given this is my first carbon bike i don't have much of a reference point but compared to my previous alu bike, this is definitely a refreshing experience where it felt amazing in terms of power transfer without being overly stiff and giving some compliance on the bumpy roads. 

i had some issues in the build where i had to sand down the rear brake caliper mounting hole to get it to fit. luckily i didnt sand down any carbon and all was sanded off was the paint. 


here's some photos (any ideas in terms of naming the bike?)






















i do recommend anyone using pressfit to get the praxis work PF30s. made a world of difference and didn't creak on me at all.

Specs
Ultegra 6700 groupset (transplanted from my old bike)
Velo Orange Grand Cru 47-57mm brakes
Praxis works PF30 shimano bb
Control tech 100mm 6 degrees alu stem 
Control tech 42mm alu dropbar
Campangolo zonda


----------



## bvber

^ For your size & weight, are there enough spokes for the wheels?


----------



## avria

the zondas are well known to take a heavy load and still stay true after many years. mine had no issue and i definitely weigh under their recommended limit at 109kg. and i've personally seen a heavier bloke (roughly around 120kg based on estimations) that rode his zondas without issue.


----------



## oct3

o/ posted this thread a few days ago. Have been looking at Flyxii; I like that they're showing their prices up front, and also are offering an upgraded shipping option (for a premium) that should take care of customs (I am in Europe).

Out of a cursory sampling of direct Chinese sellers from this thread, this service seem to be unique to them? and I was wondering if it actually does work?


----------



## avria

oct3 said:


> o/ posted this thread a few days ago. Have been looking at Flyxii; I like that they're showing their prices up front, and also are offering an upgraded shipping option (for a premium) that should take care of customs (I am in Europe).
> 
> Out of a cursory sampling of direct Chinese sellers from this thread, this service seem to be unique to them? and I was wondering if it actually does work?


It's not always limited to them. If you asked any other if they had premium shipping I'm pretty sure they do. 

I once emailed dengfu and asked about shipping options they had DHL service. But damn they were pricy. 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


----------



## oct3

I would imagine to make sure that their customers are not hit with extra fees, they'd have to send to some firm in EU, which in turn ships the frame to the customer, similarly to how services like Borderlinx operate?


----------



## The-DarKris

So I'm gonna need some advice on a crack in my fork:

So I ordered this Cyclocross fork and I never noticed this until after I had a crash where I went OTB after jumping a barrier (it was actually a curb into some grass but same difference). Anyway this crack is on the post mount of my fork and after I noticed it I stopped using the fork. It looks like it's isolated to the surface of the carbon and hasn't gone deeper into the lower layers. I wanted to know if there is a way to fix this or no?


----------



## avria

The-DarKris said:


> So I'm gonna need some advice on a crack in my fork:
> 
> So I ordered this Cyclocross fork and I never noticed this until after I had a crash where I went OTB after jumping a barrier (it was actually a curb into some grass but same difference). Anyway this crack is on the post mount of my fork and after I noticed it I stopped using the fork. It looks like it's isolated to the surface of the carbon and hasn't gone deeper into the lower layers. I wanted to know if there is a way to fix this or no?
> 
> View attachment 319231


to repair a carbon fork you'll be looking at least $200 and above. i suggest just ordering a new carbon fork from your manufacturer directly.

unless you wanna ghetto it and fill some epoxy on it. but honestly it aint worth it.


----------



## The-DarKris

avria said:


> to repair a carbon fork you'll be looking at least $200 and above. i suggest just ordering a new carbon fork from your manufacturer directly.
> 
> unless you wanna gehtto it and fill some epoxy on it. but honestly it aint worth it.


Well I guess I'm sticking with my steel replacement fork .-.


----------



## Migen21

I'm not aware of any reputable carbon repair companies that will even touch a damaged fork. Too much liability I guess.

Fortunately, if your headset is not proprietary, you might be able to find a good quality aftermarket fork from someone like Enve or Whisky... I'm sure there are other's I'm not thinking of.


----------



## bruto

if it's a Chinese fork, then highly unlikely to have the uncommon steerer diameter at the base
the aftermarket ones are all either straight or proper tapered (no 1 1/4 or 1 3/8" BS)

if you're looking for a replacement, the D8014 fork (tapered, from this frameset: New Deisgn 12*142 Disc Brake Flat Mount Carbon CX Cyclocross Gravel Bike Frame | eBay ) is absolutely overbuilt 
has massive dropouts and the lower parts

i bought one myself thinking it would also be wider than my current one, but I don't think it'll fit 45mm tire (that has any shoulder knobs) so I didn't bother cutting it

should cost much less than Enve or Whisky
(by the way, some Whiskys were/are made by the Shenzhen factory that also makes this frameset)


----------



## asherandjacob

thats not a bad looking frame, they usually look so ungainly in larger sixes (personal opinion i know).

well following no response as to whether those carbon bars were any good, i have done the only sensible thing, and bought them on spec  so as soon as they arrive they will be forming part of my upgrade kit for my creaking 250 quid, planet X, gumtree special. and i will tell you what they are like.

Be interested to see how that [email protected], as i know when i had my last frame i was living in spain at the time and they had a an horrendous import duty on "chinese bikes and frames" hahahah which would have made it like a $2500 frameset lol, so i sent mine via the uk.


----------



## oct3

After a long process of elimination, I'm finding myself looking at a Velobuild VB-R-054.

However, digging up old posts, I've learned about VB's transformation from forum to shop and the associated shenanigans.

Was wondering if anyone has dealt with them in recent times?


----------



## avria

oct3 said:


> After a long process of elimination, I'm finding myself looking at a Velobuild VB-R-054.
> 
> However, digging up old posts, I've learned about VB's transformation from forum to shop and the associated shenanigans.
> 
> Was wondering if anyone has dealt with them in recent times?


i personally haven't dealt with them but i did looked at one of their frames (VB-R-068/069) and did a reverse google search of it. i found that the company that was supplying them was huyi tech.

according aske its a pretty reliable company? so probably the others are of better suppliers than the ones floating on alibaba.






avria said:


> Hey has anyone have any knowledge on Huyi tech bikes? are they any good? i assume that if velobuild is using them they should be pretty decent?





avria said:


> i was looking to get a bike off from velobuild (VB-R-068 - carbon fiber aero road frame VB-R-068)
> 
> but i figured why not just cut the middle man (velobuild) and go direct to the vendor, so i did a reverse google search and found that Huyi tech should be the ones supplying for velobuild
> 
> see
> 
> https://cnszhuyi.en.alibaba.com/pro...SA_Racing_Bicycle_Frame_990g_Lightweight.html
> 
> or
> 
> https://www.grvstec.com/portfolio-items/carbon-road-frame/






aske said:


> Hi Avria
> 
> I've been dealing with Huyi tech and they are good. They are subcontracting for some of the big Taiwanese companies and are making brand frames. But because of NDA contracts she couldn't tell me which brands. They seem very professional and i really had to dig for this information. It wasn't something​ she threw out there as some kind of quality assurance. They also refuse to do copyrighted decals on frames, which is a good sign imo. They are also supplying an Ali express store, if you wanna go that route. It's called Top-Cycle store.
> They are even making some of the open molds with EPS molding, which is the same molding process used in top frames. The standard Chinese open molds are usually made with PU bladder molding.
> Communication is good, though sometimes you have to explain things very clear (maybe with an image) for them to understand. But, I guess that's the norm with these dealings.
> 
> I have a suspicion that they at least have been producing for the Fuji brand. They had an image at one point from their QA where a guy was reviewing what looks like a Fuji frame... And since they don't do copy stuff...
> 
> They also have a close tie to the big Taiwanese APro manufacturer (also something I had to dig out myself). According to the sales woman I've been talking to: "my boss and APro boss are close friends, sometimes we do business cooperation". What that entails, I don't know.
> 
> I did get a crappy seat post at one point. That was a backup, i accepted to receive, because the original seat post was out of stock and had to be manufactured first and I couldn't be bothered to wait. I later ordered the original seat post which seems good quality.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## oct3

avria said:


> i personally haven't dealt with them but i did looked at one of their frames (VB-R-068/069) and did a reverse google search of it. i found that the company that was supplying them was huyi tech.
> 
> according aske its a pretty reliable company? so probably the others are of better suppliers than the ones floating on alibaba.


Thanks for pulling that up; the frames look nicely made, navigating aliexpress does seem like a nightmare though?

There's, like, dozens of pages with these small thumbnail pictures, which all look different and most of them are just the same frameset, just different pictures with reworded descriptions. Am I missing something there, is it supposed to be this daunting?


----------



## oct3

BTW, I wonder whether Huyi really makes anything; with some legwork, I've traced the Velobuild 069, and a number of other frames, back to HQ Carbon Bike; the formatting of their geometry chart is easy to tell apart:

HQR19 carbon fiber road bike frame

Some I suspect to be matches: VB-R-068, VB-R-099, VB-R-066, VB-R-025, possibly more.

Velobuild's VB-R-054 is from another company entirely, AEL YiErLan Sports:

AEL-R8009-ShenZhen YiErLan Sports Equipment Technology Co.,Ltd

This particular frame was already mentioned in thread as Orge OG-CF26; may need to open this link in Incognito for it to work correctly.


----------



## CabDoctor

What would you guys recommend for a guy that mainly does crits and circuit races and is a sprinter. I race between 30-50 times a year and don't have a full bike sponsor this year so having something "disposable" is a must. I'm really attracted to bikes like the Giant TCR. Thanks in advance.


----------



## avria

Hmm interesting. Though all thoughts aside. 

Have you ever considered the hongfu avenger? Seems to be a really solid bike with good reviews so far.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


----------



## CabDoctor

avria said:


> Hmm interesting. Though all thoughts aside.
> 
> Have you ever considered the hongfu avenger? Seems to be a really solid bike with good reviews so far.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


I have, but honestly I was hoping for something cheaper for two reasons. One, a lot of money is going to travel. And two, my bike could very easily end up broken in transit let alone in a pile up at a crit. So I was hoping for sub $450-500 shipped. That way if necessary I could immediately buy a second one without upsetting my budget. 

On a side note a sloping top tube is a plus.


----------



## avria

CabDoctor said:


> I have, but honestly I was hoping for something cheaper for two reasons. One, a lot of money is going to travel. And two, my bike could very easily end up broken in transit let alone in a pile up at a crit. So I was hoping for sub $450-500 shipped. That way if necessary I could immediately buy a second one without upsetting my budget.
> 
> On a side note a sloping top tube is a plus.


Have you looked at the other frames from hongfu, dengfu, flyxii, miracle or ican? Maybe the fm066. You should check out weightweeine Forum they rave on about the fm066

or maybe flyxii fr320 (similar to S tarmac SL?) FLX-FR-320 - ShenZhen Flyxii Spor

The top 3 rated manufacturers would have to be hongfu, dengfu and flyxii. 

So probably good advice that you stick to them. good luck and good hunting mate.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


----------



## WaltThizzney

Hey Guys....

Anyone have an FM686 aka LTK118 aka VeloBuild V-077? 

Trying to decide if it is worth choosing over the FM066. Is the FM066 EPS?

It appears LTK is the manufacture. Is it stiff enough to race?

Ribble's high end road bike is using this frame. Only one review of it so far which was pretty good:

Ribble SL review - Cycling Weekly

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated


----------



## Steve B.

I like my Flyxii Fr322, have about 1400 miles on it since last August. Very nice bike, nice ride. I'm a Clyde, find the bike plenty stiff in the b-bracket, not noodly at all, very stable in 40 mph downhills as well. 

It'll take up to a 25mm tire, not a 28 though. Can be purchased with a BSA bottom bracket, which I specifically wanted. With a set of Open Pro/105 wheels with 32 spokes, full 5800 105 group, aluminum stem/bar/seatpost, it came out to 16.8 lbs in a 56. 

It was a very easy purchase and delivery, took about 2 weeks, Flyxii was very responsive to e-mail questions. It's running about $379 shipped to the US currently, they took PayPal.


----------



## avria

WaltThizzney said:


> Hey Guys....
> 
> Anyone have an FM686 aka LTK118 aka VeloBuild V-077?
> 
> Trying to decide if it is worth choosing over the FM066. Is the FM066 EPS?
> 
> It appears LTK is the manufacture. Is it stiff enough to race?
> 
> Ribble's high end road bike is using this frame. Only one review of it so far which was pretty good:
> 
> Ribble SL review - Cycling Weekly
> 
> Any feedback would be greatly appreciated


http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=143418

Check this out. I suggest buying from workswell or ltk direct. 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


----------



## ruckus

CabDoctor said:


> What would you guys recommend for a guy that mainly does crits and circuit races and is a sprinter. I race between 30-50 times a year and don't have a full bike sponsor this year so having something "disposable" is a must. I'm really attracted to bikes like the Giant TCR. Thanks in advance.


I would look at the Flyxii FR-322. I had it, my impression it was made for racing, not the casual fun rides I like to do with a lot of hills. I got rid of it for a more relaxed fit, lightweight climbing frame. Compare to the R5 like frame I have now, the ride is, unforgiving, this was not a carbon frame for compliance, to me it was stiff everywhere, unyielding. Smooth ride though.

It's currently reduced priced, to me it was a blend of Trek Madone and Specialized Tarmac. Plenty stiff, weight decent, but with racing components I'm sure you can get it down to 15lbs. 

It seems to tick off the boxes. It's reliable, I have yet to read a disaster story with it. Cost efficient, fast frame, geometry made for racing. Only problem, you'll be limited in tire width. They also ship fast, I got my frame in 5 days to the door, so if you need a quick replacement, good company. I rode it fine with 23mm for 2 years, but I much prefer riding 27mm on my current bike.

Good luck.


----------



## Steve B.

ruckus said:


> I would look at the Flyxii FR-322. I had it, my impression it was made for racing, not the casual fun rides I like to do with a lot of hills. I got rid of it for a more relaxed fit, lightweight climbing frame. Compare to the R5 like frame I have now, the ride is, unforgiving, this was not a carbon frame for compliance, to me it was stiff everywhere, unyielding. Smooth ride though.
> 
> It's currently reduced priced, to me it was a blend of Trek Madone and Specialized Tarmac. Plenty stiff, weight decent, but with racing components I'm sure you can get it down to 15lbs.
> 
> It seems to tick off the boxes. It's reliable, I have yet to read a disaster story with it. Cost efficient, fast frame, geometry made for racing. Only problem, you'll be limited in tire width. They also ship fast, I got my frame in 5 days to the door, so if you need a quick replacement, good company. I rode it fine with 23mm for 2 years, but I much prefer riding 27mm on my current bike.
> 
> Good luck.


Good comments, my experience as well, I'm a Clyde so don't find it overly harsh. I use 25mm Grand Prix 4 Seasons, as well as 25mm Mavic tires that came on my Kyseriums. Bigger then 25 won't fit.


----------



## oct3

The FR-322 doesn't have an aggressive geometry FWIW, pretty much middle of the road (pardon the pun) for a road bike, I would say.


----------



## ruckus

oct3 said:


> The FR-322 doesn't have an aggressive geometry FWIW, pretty much middle of the road (pardon the pun) for a road bike, I would say.


I disagree, maybe on paper what Flyxii has published, but not in person, that thing is mean machine. I've test rode the Tarmac and the FR-322 felt very similar. It's more aggressive than Trek Emonda or Cervelo R5 which are classic race frames, climber's dream. My current frame is lightweight climber, but definitely not endurance, FR-322 is definitely more aggressive and like said, my current frame is race geometry. FR-322 to me was made for crit racing CabDoctor was looking for. I'd definitely go for FR-322 than an ALU like Allez Sprint.


----------



## fronesis

I've got 2,000 miles on an FR-322, and over 10,000 miles on 3 different FlyXii frames. The 322 is a great bike, and has the best overall build quality of the 3 frames I've bought from them – really nicely done. 

I think the "racing vs endurance" geometry is sometimes a bit overstated, since so much of the geometry of the BIKE depends on what you do with your stem and spacers. I run my 322 with a stem flipped up and a bit of spacers. I run my FR-602 with the stem flipped down and slammed. Of course, you MUST by a frame with a geometry that CAN be made to work with your fit, but there's a bit more room in there than some folks imagine. It's worth playing around with a stack and reach calculator to see which frames can fit you, rather than saying "I can't ride that because it's too aggressive." 

One bit of experience that I've had which differs from other: I'm running SUPER wide carbon rims with 25mm Schwalbe One tires and they measure at just over 27mm. They fit fine and have never rubbed. Couldn't run fenders, of course, but the 322 will at least take a _slightly wider tire._


----------



## oct3

ruckus said:


> Cervelo R5 which are classic race frames, climber's dream.


I'm aware of what the Cervelo marketing material claims, but since 54 cm frames exist with a head tube of 120 mm or whereabouts, anything that is 380/540 mm can't be claimed to be an "aggressive" geometry (the 322 has a 145 HT IIRC)

An endurance bike in that size will have a headtube in 160-170 mm range with a reach closer to 370 than 380.

Which is not to say that it is a shopping trolley or anything diminutive, I'm sure it's nice but the geometry is neither among the most aggressive, nor among the most relaxed, for a road bike, which makes it middle of the road.


----------



## davidof

Slightly off topic, I have a unpainted carbon fibre frame and wanted some advice on painting and decals.

I was thinking of getting some decals from Marco in Brazil (Stickers Design)

What advice do people have for these decals? I assume wet-n-dry frame then apply decal then clearcoat - wet-n-dry-clearcoat?

For painting a small amount of the new frame, say forks, would you wet-n-dry, undercoat, topcoat, clearcoat?


----------



## ruckus

WaltThizzney said:


> Hey Guys....
> 
> Anyone have an FM686 aka LTK118 aka VeloBuild V-077?
> 
> Trying to decide if it is worth choosing over the FM066. Is the FM066 EPS?
> 
> It appears LTK is the manufacture. Is it stiff enough to race?
> 
> Ribble's high end road bike is using this frame. Only one review of it so far which was pretty good:
> 
> Ribble SL review - Cycling Weekly
> 
> Any feedback would be greatly appreciated


Go through this thread. A few people built bikes with LTK118 and liked it. Built up pics of them are gorgeous. FM066 seems popular but I think has been superseded by WorksWell 066, add that to your list. I love mine, it's the most comfortable bike I've ridden, climbs hills crazy fast, just love it for the hilly routes I ride. I don't race or do competitive group rides, can't tell you how it is for that, but it handles great, comfortable, I've taken it on gravel paths, still comfortable. I like it a lot.

If I was to build another frame, my choice would be HF-FM008, looks to be the successor to the FM066, retains the aero squoval tubes, but the fork is flared like the newer forks used by Orbea and Pinarello. Looks nice to me, it's more expensive, but worth considering.

Also the FM296 to consider, Manual Pedal on YT does crit races frequently with it, has had good success, his review is great which you can watch or read about. He prefers it to his former Tarmac SL4, that's some praise.

Get the frame that will make you want to ride. When I look at my bike, I want to ride, I love it.


----------



## varian72

Just placed an order for a 066 VB-R-066 Ultra Light Road Racing Bike Frame made by Toray T-800 Carbon Fiber,Road Frame It appears to be a very similar to a Canyon Ultimate. We shall see. 

A few questions for anyone who has this frame or has ordered from Velobuild.

I was told by Chris at Velobuild the headset was "semi-integrated." I'd like to get a nicer HS for this frame, but semi-intergraded to me means the CC ZS standard. From what it looks like on the website for their headset, it looks like like a CC IS standard or drop-in. Does anyone know this?

Also, for this particular frame, I was told max tire size was 28, but they recommend 25. Does anyone have any experience with using 28s?


----------



## 504yaj

oct3 said:


> Thanks for pulling that up; the frames look nicely made, navigating aliexpress does seem like a nightmare though?
> 
> There's, like, dozens of pages with these small thumbnail pictures, which all look different and most of them are just the same frameset, just different pictures with reworded descriptions. Am I missing something there, is it supposed to be this daunting?



Is it just me or is the VBR 068 "inspired" by the new Venge?


----------



## ruckus

They usually have one model similar to a Venge. As long as I have been interested in Chinese Carbon frames, they had one. Just as they usually have a frame that looks like the latest Pinarello flagship, their 2017 new frame is clearly a F10.


----------



## oct3

varian72 said:


> Just placed an order for a 066 VB-R-066 Ultra Light Road Racing Bike Frame made by Toray T-800 Carbon Fiber,Road Frame It appears to be a very similar to a Canyon Ultimate. We shall see.


Very interested, please keep us posted.

As for the headset, looking at the complete bike picture, it does seem to be integrated, not semi integrated, to me.



504yaj said:


> Is it just me or is the VBR 068 "inspired" by the new Venge?


The 068 is inspired by the Cipollini RB1k, the 025 reminiscent of the Cervelo S5, and so on. There was some discussion, upthread, that there actually are enough different details to make them not knock-offs.

For instance, Flyxii also has an S5 look-alike, which is easier to tell apart than Velobuild's 25 because the cable stops are on one side of the downtube.


----------



## irf3

Does anyone have experience buying from ShenZhen TanTan Cycling? I was looking at the TT-X1 which looks like a similar shape to the Canyon Aeroad. I emailed them and they seemed responsive.

http://www.tantancycling.com/index.php?_m=mod_product&_a=view&p_id=520


----------



## varian72

oct3 said:


> Very interested, please keep us posted.
> 
> As for the headset, looking at the complete bike picture, it does seem to be integrated, not semi integrated, to me.


Headset was confirmed IS41/IS52. 

After seeing an article on it, I just rechecked the canyon endurance and this frame is actually closer to the VB-R-077 than the Canyon ultimate with the HA,SA, headtube, stack and reach more closely matching up. The top tube is a good deal longer on the Endurace (530 vs 541), however. Chainstays don't match up either (405 vs 415). Hope it doesn't have some wonky ride as a result.

Coming off a Specialized Tarmac and I really liked the Geo. The VB will be a taller bike with the longer HT and a bit slacker.


----------



## oct3

varian72 said:


> Headset was confirmed IS41/IS52.


While I don't have any first-hand experience with Chinese frames, I've read a suggestion that they're all using the same headset. That is quite the wide statement, however I haven't seen anything so far to disprove it.

The headset they're using appears to be compatible with FSA's C-40 #42, although I think there are three different versions of it on FSA's site and thus YMMV.



varian72 said:


> After seeing an article on it, I just rechecked the canyon endurance and this frame is actually closer to the VB-R-077 than the Canyon ultimate with the HA,SA, headtube, stack and reach more closely matching up.


If the geometry were exactly the same, it would be easy to call it a knock-off.

FWIW, I suspect that the differences in geometry across road bikes are small enough that differences in handling are either wildly overstated or very colored by perception. On that matter, I think Josh Poertner has written some very wise words.


----------



## James6b

Yay....after dismantling my main road bike to build one of these for the wife using my old components I have a geared roadie again. The single speed was getting old.

Flyxii-fr-320 with Shimano RX disc wheels and Microshift Centos 11 speed which I love. The thumb shifters are awesome and super comfy/ergonomic. I really like this brand and get all messed up when I rent bikes w/ 105's when on vacation. 

The first 25 yesterday was smooth and I can't wait to go again tonight after work. 

Yes, that is Star Wars font and an Imperial logo on the head tube. Now I just need a Death Star top cap. Hashtag MediocreMechanic.

View attachment 319537
View attachment 319538
View attachment 319539


----------



## varian72

oct3 said:


> While I don't have any first-hand experience with Chinese frames, I've read a suggestion that they're all using the same headset. That is quite the wide statement, however I haven't seen anything so far to disprove it.
> 
> The headset they're using appears to be compatible with FSA's C-40 #42, although I think there are three different versions of it on FSA's site and thus YMMV.


While Velobuild confirmed it was an IS41 headset, the IS41 headset I ordered does not work. The bearing is too loose. I did not keep my FSA from my cracked frame so I can't compare. Is it safe for me to assume an IS42 is a larger bearing than the IS41 and that might be what I need? based on what you said above, the FSA #42...is that and IS42? Thanks for the help, I'm new to drop-in headsets riding primary mtn bikes and never touching my tarmacs HS except to lube over the past 12 years.


----------



## aske

varian72 said:


> While Velobuild confirmed it was an IS41 headset, the IS41 headset I ordered does not work. The bearing is too loose. I did not keep my FSA from my cracked frame so I can't compare. Is it safe for me to assume an IS42 is a larger bearing than the IS41 and that might be what I need? based on what you said above, the FSA #42...is that and IS42? Thanks for the help, I'm new to drop-in headsets riding primary mtn bikes and never touching my tarmacs HS except to lube over the past 12 years.


I'm on my third open mould, they have all been IS42 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


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## varian72

aske said:


> I'm on my third open mould, they have all been IS42
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


That was my feeling. DAMN! I really wanted my orange top cap. Vanity always kills.


----------



## aske

varian72 said:


> That was my feeling. DAMN! I really wanted my orange top cap. Vanity always kills.


The top cap should be reusable. It's just the upper bearing size that differs... AFAIK...

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## varian72

aske said:


> The top cap should be reusable. It's just the upper bearing size that differs... AFAIK...
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


I thought the same thing, but it seems different for some reason. its a Hope vs the no name sent with the frame. I'll give it a shot, but it seems to seal the IS41 better. Thanks


----------



## oct3

varian72 said:


> While Velobuild confirmed it was an IS41 headset, the IS41 headset I ordered does not work. The bearing is too loose.


Did they not send the headset, or was it your choice not to use it?

Asking because I'm interested in the quality of the headset they're providing.



varian72 said:


> based on what you said above, the FSA #42...is that and IS42? Thanks for the help, I'm new to drop-in headsets riding primary mtn bikes and never touching my tarmacs HS except to lube over the past 12 years.


The C-40 #42 is indeed an IS42/IS52 headset:

C-40 #42/48-CF ACB
C-40 #42 ACB
C-40 #42/48 ACB

The difference appears to be just some part being metal or carbon fiber.

Their saying that the headset is IS41 may be a typo, but considering they also told you that the headset was semi integrated first try, it lends more credence to what someone said upthread:

...that most Chinese sellers don't understand one thing about bike stuff to begin with.


----------



## varian72

oct3 said:


> Did they not send the headset, or was it your choice not to use it?
> 
> Asking because I'm interested in the quality of the headset they're providing.
> 
> 
> 
> The C-40 #42 is indeed an IS42/IS52 headset:
> 
> C-40 #42/48-CF ACB
> C-40 #42 ACB
> C-40 #42/48 ACB
> 
> The difference appears to be just some part being metal or carbon fiber.
> 
> Their saying that the headset is IS41 may be a typo, but considering they also told you that the headset was semi integrated first try, it lends more credence to what someone said upthread:
> 
> ...that most Chinese sellers don't understand one thing about bike stuff to begin with.


yeah, it came with a headset, I was just opting for a little bling so I ordered a new one. I'm sure what they sent is fine. I've never had to replace a headset that was sealed well enough and there is where I am somewhat concerned with this frame. While the top bearing they sent sits well enough in the molded cups, its does not sit 100% flush with the top of the head tube. So, the cover does not 100% seal the top of the bearing. As was suggested above that I could use the Hope top cap I got with the IS41, the coverage with that top cape is even worse. So, I'm thinking your basic CC 40 or FSA Orbit headset top may solve the issue as those top caps have always offered pretty good coverage of the top bearing.

As for the frame, all looks pretty good. Only issues are the cable liner did not extend out the rear of the frame for the RD so I''ll need to fish out the cable. Also, I was only provided 1 metal plug for the exit holes for the RD and FD cabling exit. The holes are too big for your basic housing ferrule so I'm not sure what I'll do here. To maintain good rear shifting, I think I need to use the metal plug in the rear as it does have a cable sized hole it in and a ferrule fits nice inside the plug to seal things up.

I don't have my components yet so I have not tried to build it up. Hoping the cable routing for the FD will allow me to throw a small piece of protective frame tape over the hole and just poke the cable through it on way to the FD. Not elegant, but appropriate given what I paid for the frame I guess.

I'll post pics as I get more into it. Hopefully parts arrive in the next day or so.


----------



## oct3

varian72 said:


> As for the frame, all looks pretty good. Only issues are the cable liner did not extend out the rear of the frame for the RD so I''ll need to fish out the cable. Also, I was only provided 1 metal plug for the exit holes for the RD and FD cabling exit. The holes are too big for your basic housing ferrule so I'm not sure what I'll do here.


Looking at the pictures, the front of the 077 doesn't appear to have the screw-on flat metal stops found on some other frames, so I'm wondering whether the cable is supposed to run inside the frame up to a point?

edit: on second thought, I looked this up on weightweenies, seems to have ferrules in there.

https://i.imgur.com/RkZYCyBh.jpg



varian72 said:


> I'll post pics as I get more into it. Hopefully parts arrive in the next day or so.


Cool, looking forward to them.


----------



## .je

It's supposed to have a built-in cup to retain the outer cable's ferrule (why is it called a ferrule, if it's made of plastic??).

If you go back a few pages, you will see that a few of us had one or both of those cups missing. 
No worry, you can get a fitting for one from your LBS that drops in.

A few months later, I found a drop-in fitting on my garage floor that the vendor must have included for me. SMH!! :mad2:


----------



## varian72

.je said:


> It's supposed to have a built-in cup to retain the outer cable's ferrule (why is it called a ferrule, if it's made of plastic??).
> 
> If you go back a few pages, you will see that a few of us had one or both of those cups missing.
> No worry, you can get a fitting for one from your LBS that drops in.
> 
> A few months later, I found a drop-in fitting on my garage floor that the vendor must have included for me. SMH!! :mad2:


Thanks, I have one so that is good. I'm hoping I can just wing the other. My LBS is pretty small, but I'll look into it.


----------



## .je

Have a look starting here, there are pictures of others' solutions in following posts:
Chinese Carbon Thread and Ebay direct version 7.0 - Page 27
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bi...rect-version-7-0-a-346068-26.html#post5068189


----------



## oct3

Cool, -je, thanks for chiming in.


----------



## varian72

.je said:


> Have a look starting here, there are pictures of others' solutions in following posts:
> Chinese Carbon Thread and Ebay direct version 7.0 - Page 27
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bi...rect-version-7-0-a-346068-26.html#post5068189


Thanks! Jagwire Plugs ordered from Amazon. Here Friday.


----------



## davidof

Here is the "unboxing" video of my HQR01 frame ordered from: HQR01-Carbon road bike frame






Way back on one of the previous threads I posted a series of vids about my Deng-Fu FM028. I've not done much more than unwrap this frame but I will try and respond to any questions about it or hqcarbonbike.

What I can say about hqcarbonbike is you communicate with Lance Tan who speaks good English. Contact was good, even after money changed hands. I paid by Paypal. Build was a few days after the order with delivery taking about a week from China with good tracking. Of course I got hit for sales tax / anti dumping tax which is quite high in Europe for Chinese products.


----------



## varian72

davidof said:


> Here is the "unboxing" video of my HQR01 frame ordered from: HQR01-Carbon road bike frame
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Way back on one of the previous threads I posted a series of vids about my Deng-Fu FM028. I've not done much more than unwrap this frame but I will try and respond to any questions about it or hqcarbonbike.
> 
> What I can say about hqcarbonbike is you communicate with Lance Tan who speaks good English. Contact was good, even after money changed hands. I paid by Paypal. Build was a few days after the order with delivery taking about a week from China with good tracking. Of course I got hit for sales tax / anti dumping tax which is quite high in Europe for Chinese products.


Nice. Lugged like a Colnago


----------



## davidof

varian72 said:


> Nice. Lugged like a Colnago


I'm pretty sure that it is a monocoque type construction. The geometry is the same but my feeling is that it is built in a mould rather than the traditional approach adopted by C.nago. The result will probably be that it rides different. It may not be a bad thing though.

When I've built the bike up I'll get back with more information about how it rides.


----------



## feuera

*velobuild vb-r-074*

has anyone seen any more info for velobuild vb-r-074? (manufacturer, ..)
looks interesting to me. 
also the new vb-r-099

am kind of looking for light aero'ish frame.


----------



## varian72

davidof said:


> I'm pretty sure that it is a monocoque type construction. The geometry is the same but my feeling is that it is built in a mould rather than the traditional approach adopted by C.nago. The result will probably be that it rides different. It may not be a bad thing though.
> 
> When I've built the bike up I'll get back with more information about how it rides.


Probably but looks pretty cool anyway


----------



## varian72

I need a little advice/help. Velobuild did not feed the cable liner all the way through the rear derailleur exit in the chain stay.

Any advice on how best to fish the cable out? I feel like its getting hung up on the kink in the chain stay.I was thinking about running a cable backwards and taping it to the shifter cable so I could pull it through but that would mean cutting the cable liner at the BB in order to expose it.

Also, I am concerned that even if I get the cable out of exit that the tensioned able once installed will hit the inside of the frame wearing it away. Am I overthinking it? It just seems like the cable will not be able to make the upward turn without touching the frame interior and every shift will just eat away at the frame.

Thanks!


----------



## bruto

thread & vacuum cleaner


----------



## 504yaj

oct3 said:


> Very interested, please keep us posted.
> 
> As for the headset, looking at the complete bike picture, it does seem to be integrated, not semi integrated, to me.
> 
> 
> The 068 is inspired by the Cipollini RB1k, the 025 reminiscent of the Cervelo S5, and so on. There was some discussion, upthread, that there actually are enough different details to make them not knock-offs.
> 
> For instance, Flyxii also has an S5 look-alike, which is easier to tell apart than Velobuild's 25 because the cable stops are on one side of the downtube.





Cant really see the RB1k on the VBR068, but maybe the VBR069 is closer to that bike.

The RB1k has a curved seat tube, and the VBR068's is a bit slimmer there and on the top tube area where it meets the headtube.


----------



## varian72

bruto said:


> thread & vacuum cleaner


Magnet worked.

Frame is built up. According to sum of individual parts, I'm around 16lbs for a small VB-R-077 with Shimano Ultegra 6800, old Mavic Ksyrium SLs, and no fancy carbon stuff.

I'll post pics another time, but a few things:

The seat post binder is awful. they need to revisit this one even if it means another $20 per frame.

I'm impressed by the stiffness of the frame. It climbs really well compared to my older 2006 Spesh Tarmac. The frame is about 1lb lighter. It also rode a lot harsher than the tarmac which was a bit disappointing.

However, after swapping out the stock seat post for my older Specialized post with a zertz insert, the ride smoothed out noticeably. The stock seat post was light at 185g, but it was really, really harsh on my rear end. I didn't realize how much that zertz gel worked. The bike rides almost as smooth at the tarmac and its much lighter and has me in a more upright position which is great.

The lawyer tab on one side of my fork cracked off when I was clamping my wheel in. They are not very well done anyway but I'm not concerned about the integrity of the fork.

The steerer appears to be all carbon I crushed what I trimmed and did not notice any layers of different material, but I'm not carbon expert. Maybe its woven in somehow. it is very thick and I could not fit my prior steerer plug in, so just used the really heavy, but overbuilt expander that came with the frame.

As mentioned before, the upper headset cup does not allow the bearing to sit flush with the top tube so a short, but not flat headset caps is needed to adequately cover the bearing. I'm using the stock headset, but may throw in a cane creek.

Overall, I am pleased. I rode a bit cautiously at first given the few scary stories I've seen about chinese frames, but I barely thought about it my second ride.


----------



## ruckus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zryhuHkbb-o

Interesting to see for attention to detail from the Chinese factories regarding bottom brackets. HongFu/DengFu prove they have the skill and knowledge in carbon to beat brand names like Cannondale, Cervelo, Specialized. He measured the tolerances in three different ways, and HongFu/DengFu were consistently accurate.

He did say the Chinese bearings are not manufactured to tolerances of Euro/Jap though. The suggestion if your HongFu is creaking, it's not the frame, it's the bottom bracket, get better bearings.

Gives me some confidence as I wait for HongFu or DengFu to design a new frame with a classic lightweight frame good for climbing and comfort with direct mount brakes.


----------



## varian72

.je said:


> I've narrowed my decision to either VB-R-055 or VB-R-077. These are available from their factories, but the prices for the same frame (+ headset + seatpost etc.) are still a little better at Velobuild.
> 
> The 77 is a newer design, maybe better over vibrations, not sure if LT makes nicer things than Dongfu, but it's $80 more, which is more than $100 after exchange to me.
> I prefer BSA, but the 55 comes with an adaptor...
> 
> If you look at the geo charts, they're almost exactly duplicates to the mm, except one has 5mm more stack.
> 
> 
> Would you advise one above the other?? I'd like to pull the trigger in the next day or so...


I have the 77. Its not as good across vibrations as my 2006 tarmac that had vibration gel in it. It's mush stiffer and lighter, however. So far so good! Shitty seat post clamp, but it works.


----------



## oct3

ruckus said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zryhuHkbb-o


I'm really skeptical about that video. "Bearings falling out" because of a 50 micrometers difference really does sound like he's full of it to me.

The whole graph is contained between a 70 micrometers range IIRC. It's not straight out manipulation through scale, as otherwise one wouldn't be able to tell any difference at all, but certainly a reminder that scale on a graph can be used to magnify very small differences.

Call me a cynic, but saying "Cervelo is crap" is one way to get hits.



varian72 said:


> I have the 77. Its not as good across vibrations as my 2006 tarmac that had vibration gel in it. It's mush stiffer and lighter, however. So far so good! Shitty seat post clamp, but it works.


I'm really of the Poertner school of thought that you might as well regard the wheels and rest of the frame as if they were incompressible and infinitely stiff, and just focus on the tires and their pressure.

Mind I also think that whoever thinks they can tell the difference between a seatpost, i.e. a piece of pipe, that is made of steel, aluminum or carbon, has a problem with perceptions. Poertner has some really interesting writings about all of that, including the perceptions of pros not being all that different from those of regular dudes.

That is not to say that your seatpost isn't more comfortable than a regular seatpost (I have no idea, really), but if that's the case, then it may have led you into adopting a riding style that is heavier on the bike.

BTW one of the reasons I found the AEL-8009/VB-R-054 interesting is that it is designed to accept 28 mm tires (which probably means you can get away with 30s, maybe 32s more on a wide rim?), whereas most Chinese designs I've seen only take up to 25. That project however is on the backburner for the time being.


----------



## MMsRepBike

oct3 said:


> I'm really skeptical about that video.


I like the guy.


----------



## oct3

MMsRepBike said:


> I like the guy.


Takes more than dissing a popular brand or two to make me like somebody.

Forgot: he also mentions how everybody knows FSA bearings are crap. I mean, I understand they're selling £150 "artisanal" bottom brackets, but that saying that aloud, even if it were true, is rather unprofessional.


----------



## varian72

oct3 said:


> I'm really of the Poertner school of thought that you might as well regard the wheels and rest of the frame as if they were incompressible and infinitely stiff, and just focus on the tires and their pressure.
> 
> Mind I also think that whoever thinks they can tell the difference between a seatpost, i.e. a piece of pipe, that is made of steel, aluminum or carbon, has a problem with perceptions. Poertner has some really interesting writings about all of that, including the perceptions of pros not being all that different from those of regular dudes.
> 
> That is not to say that your seatpost isn't more comfortable than a regular seatpost (I have no idea, really), but if that's the case, then it may have led you into adopting a riding style that is heavier on the bike.


A bit more
prior bike 2006 Spesh Tarmac with "Zertz" in chainstays and Seatpost. Wheels Mavic Ksyirum SL SSC with 23c County 4000s at 100psi

This bike: VB-R-066 with Same wheels, 25c tires at 90psi.

I used stock post and it was a very harsh ride. Swapped out for the old Spesh teapot with with the gel zertz stuff, but kept all else the same. The bike was without a doubt smoother.

My position on the bike is more upright than prior bike for sure. I also have gel under my bar tape.

So, whatever the school of though it, I buy into what I feel. The VB77 is not as smooth a riding bike as my Tarmac, but its stiffer for sure. I feel that stiffness over bumps and chips eat I did not feel with the Tarmac. Go figure. I like the bike if its less racy.


----------



## oct3

varian72 said:


> This bike: VB77 with Same wheels, 25c tires at 90psi.


The 25 mm GP4000 are basically 28s, so that pressure is likely a bit high: especially so on the front, which is less loaded than the rear.

On true 23s I'm running 5 bar front and 7 bar rear. From a general riding point of view, 4 bars is doable on the front, however the tires I'm using have a minimum inflation pressure of 6 bars, and under 5 there is an increasing risk of tears.

So I would recommend that you start experimenting with lower tire pressures, chances are you will find your new bike is faster and every bit as comfortable as the old one.

BTW, some starting points to read about this topic:

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/03/09/tire-pressure-take-home/
https://silca.cc/blogs/journal/1746...portant-thing-you-are-not-paying-attention-to


----------



## bwatson87

Hi All,

Is anyone still selling the r-066 frame? 

I bought one two years ago from workswell along with handlebar and stem, built up with 6870 and running 28 tubeless schwalbe pro ones tubeless on pacenti SL-23s. 

I couldn't be happier with the bike, looking to build something similar for a friend but none of the usual sellers have it on their sites anymore. Wonder if cervelo's IP dept have been more proactive of late? 

Anyway, if anyone could point me in the right direction would be very grateful. 

Thanks!


----------



## GammaDriver

Any recommendations for either a short (short, I say) top-tube medium-framed frame and fork, or for one with a tall head-tube?

My body has either changed drastically from just 15 years ago due to some things I've done, or the cut of my older steel frames were just more compact. I'm riding a bike that is supposedly perfect for a 5'10" rider, but one where I had to take the 90mm stem off and put on a stem less than half of that with a huge angled ride up. I now have a bike that fits me, sort of, but that looks dorky due to the short stem.

I've tried Specialized, Trek, and others, and have not found a bike that fits my legs (while having an acceptable amount of seat-post in the bike) that also doesn't make me stretch beyond comfort to reach the hoods. Of the bike shops I've been to, all supposedly easier-riding road bikes would still take a 65mm stem or shorter to 'fit' me. I don't have the cash for a custom build, and am hoping I can find a fit in the Chinese CF frames available. 

Thanks, in advance, for any replies.


----------



## fronesis

GammaDriver said:


> Any recommendations for either a short (short, I say) top-tube medium-framed frame and fork, or for one with a tall head-tube?


There are TON of China carbon options now, so someone may chime in with a helpful recommendation. But, in general, most China direct bikes are long and low - just the opposite of what you are asking for.




> I'm riding a bike that is supposedly perfect for a 5'10" rider


For the record, and in the hope that this helps you in your search for a bike that fits, there really is *no such thing *as a bike that fits someone 5'10". I am exactly that height and in some frames I ride a 58. Sounds like you might need a 54 or even smaller. 

Stack and reach is what matters most, and depending on leg and femur lengths, riders of the same height will often need drastically different stack and reach. 

I wouldnt worry about how much seat post is showing or what "size" the bike is. Focus on getting a bike with the proper stack and reach. It sounds like the bike you are in now is just way too big. There is no reason almost all riders can't fit a bike with a 90mm stem. So I think you should start by looking at smaller sizes overall - small enough that the reach is right with a reasonable stem. Then go from there.


----------



## oct3

GammaDriver said:


> Any recommendations for either a short (short, I say) top-tube medium-framed frame and fork, or for one with a tall head-tube?


Have you taken a look at the Ribble Evo Pro?



fronesis said:


> For the record, and in the hope that this helps you in your search for a bike that fits, there really is *no such thing *as a bike that fits someone 5'10".


Seconded. To make this really obvious, you could have two people of the same height, one with a long neck and the other rather short: the rest of their bodies would then have to be of different lengths.

Plus there's a host of other differences in body proportions, flexibility, symmetry, etc.

@GammaDriver just post the geometry of the bike you're currently using and its settings, if you need help.


----------



## GammaDriver

oct3 said:


> @GammaDriver just post the geometry of the bike you're currently using and its settings, if you need help.


I agree, I should post them since I'm asking for better. I won't mind swapping the components over from this to something that fits me better. I expect the "improvements" need to be in centimeters, not in the teens of millimeters, for me to consider a change.

Stack: 544
Reach: 385
Effective Top Tube: 547

specs:









I'm looking at the bike, now, and it's definitely not right when I have the bars and saddle close to where I need them.

I'm looking at it, and it's hitting me that instead of changing too much geometry up front, a much less steep (close to vertical) seat tube angle would put the saddle farther forward enough so that I could run a typical 70mm to 90mm stem - as long as the cranks were a bit forward, too, since merely sitting forward will screw with leg angles... but I don't see how I could get a less-steep seat post without the BB moving farther back.

This one seems a step in the right direction: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...D-Glossy-Endurance-Road-Bike/32706678658.html


----------



## ms6073

fronesis said:


> But, in general, most China direct bikes are long and low - just the opposite of what you are asking for.


I am guessing the Chinese have yet to see enough of a market shift to start offering frames with endurance style geometry (taller head tubes/shorter top tubes).


----------



## GammaDriver

ms6073 said:


> I am guessing the Chinese have yet to see enough of a market shift to start offering frames with endurance style geometry (taller head tubes/shorter top tubes).


Probably correct, though since most frames from the big makers are made there... some manufacturers have to be seeing it.


----------



## oct3

GammaDriver said:


> I'm looking at it, and it's hitting me that instead of changing too much geometry up front, a much less steep (close to vertical) seat tube angle would put the saddle farther forward enough so that I could run a typical 70mm to 90mm stem


You may be looking at this the wrong way: the saddle position is determined basically by your level of athleticism and weight distribution considerations.

I.e. unless the saddle is currently in the wrong place, you want to move the bars closer to it, rather than the other way round, as you already did by getting a shorter stem.

If you have excessive weight on your arms then you may consider moving the saddle back, if the front is too unloaded, viceversa.

All in all, it's probably a better idea starting a new thread specifically to discuss your fitting requirements.


----------



## varian72

varian72 said:


> I have the 77. Its not as good across vibrations as my 2006 tarmac that had vibration gel in it. It's mush stiffer and lighter, however. So far so good! Shitty seat post clamp, but it works.


I take it back. I have the VB-R-066. My comments still hold


----------



## varian72

oct3 said:


> The 25 mm GP4000 are basically 28s, so that pressure is likely a bit high: especially so on the front, which is less loaded than the rear.
> 
> On true 23s I'm running 5 bar front and 7 bar rear. From a general riding point of view, 4 bars is doable on the front, however the tires I'm using have a minimum inflation pressure of 6 bars, and under 5 there is an increasing risk of tears.
> 
> So I would recommend that you start experimenting with lower tire pressures, chances are you will find your new bike is faster and every bit as comfortable as the old one.
> 
> BTW, some starting points to read about this topic:
> 
> https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/03/09/tire-pressure-take-home/
> https://silca.cc/blogs/journal/1746...portant-thing-you-are-not-paying-attention-to


Thanks, I'll try reducing the pressure a bit. I looked around the internets and 90 seemed like a good avg.


----------



## Nefarious

Talk about analysis paralysis! I could really use a little guidance.

My requirements:
Geo: somewhere between a Tarmac and Roubaix as I find both comfortable (not super racey but not super relaxed)
Brakes: Disc
Axles: QR or 12mm thru axle (i have CK R45 hubs so 12mm is max)
Tires: 28mm

I've found the following 
VeloBuild GF01
VeloBuild R051 (not sure this will fit 28mm tires and it seems a little more stretched than the Tarmac
Carbonda CFR396 - still confirming the axle & tire specs but the stack & reach on the 51cm frame falls between the Tarmac & Roubaix
LT Bikes LTK115D
Hong Fu FM166


----------



## bkidd1187

I lurked on this thread and others for months before pulling the trigger on a Chinese open mold frame. I'm an enthusiast and an amateur racer that doesn't take myself too seriously. I was looking for a budget TT frame to mess around with for a race season and keep it if I liked it, or sell it if it really made no significant gains/enjoyment of doing TT's in omnium style race weekends.

So I looked at Dengfu, Hongfu, Ican, and Workswell. I found the most positive reviews for Dengfu. I've always preferred the minimalist TT frames like the Specialized shiv TT, Look 796, or Giant Trinity. So I decided that the best fit for me was the Dengfu FM087.

The order process was seamless, it arrived in May, about a month from order. I had most of the components for the build at hand, but still had to order a few odds and ends. Straight out of the box the frameset looked great. Which oddly enough, my local bike shop vouched for the general quality of chinese open mold frames. I took all the parts and frameset to the said bike shop to let them build it properly since I'm not a bike mechanic.

The first problem was the seatpost didn't fit properly in the frame without it being sanded down quite a bit. No big deal, I've heard the frames may be off spec a little. The major problem with the bike was that after it all was assemble the headset was loose and could not physically be tightened anymore. It would not compress properly. My bike shop tried to add spacers to get a tight fit and could never get anything worked out properly. Basically something was off spec, and with nothing to go by it could have been the frame, headset, or fork. Who knows? Well, now it's August. Race season is almost over. I missed the big TT race I had planned to do in July. I have a bike that you can't ride because it is not safe to ride it.

I talked to Melody at Dengfu on and off trying to resolve the issue. They keep telling me that nothing is wrong with the bike. Or to take the bike to be assembled by a "master" at a bicycle store. Basically it seems like this is not going to be a problem that is going to be resolved anytime soon. I have not heard from Melody in about 7 or 8 days now. I think they are not sure what is wrong with the bike either, because there is no way to know which part is off spec and is causing it not to fit together properly. I had finally told Dengfu I don't want the bike anymore and that I would be happy to send the frameset back for a full refund if they would foot the shipping bill. They just replied they don't do refunds, and sent me videos of a bike being tested (obviously not my bike, because the bike being tested was white not UD matte carbon like mine) saying something like, "Look the bike passes tests. Headset is fine." And as well as asking me to take it back to the shop and video the guys putting it together to send to show that proper assembly was happening. I said no to all that, I'm not paying anymore money to have my bike shop try and put together a frameset that does not fit together.

So basically, having been fed up with a bike I cannot use and that is unsafe to use, and since I'm getting no remedy from China. I contacted American Express to start the chargeback process. And if Dengfu does not want the frameset back, I'll scrap the good parts and components off the bike and make some money off the whole deal.

Luckily I found a 2017 Giant Trinity UCI legal TT frame at a pretty good deal that I can finish out the season with and use next season.....

The moral of the story, you can be the 1 out of 1,000,000 that receives an open mold bike that does not fit together like it should. And always use a form of payment you can dispute a faulty product with like Amex!!!


----------



## .je

varian72 said:


> Shitty seat post clamp, but it works.


do you use carbon rails? I found the clamp can slip on steel rails, unless it's tightened crazy tight. I wonder if it would slip on carbon or break it between the 2 pressure points squeezing each rail

.


----------



## natescriven

I just purchased a Motobecane Le Champion. I'm happy with the bike but it's a little heavier than I expected. The carbon fork with alloy steerer weighs over 700 grams. What do you think of getting a fork on ebay that weighs less than 400? Tideace has a full carbon glossy fork with a 43mm rake. The one that came with my bike is 45.


----------



## Dirkkkk17

Hello, 


im really looking for few days for a new ride for me. im thinking about to buy at least frame and wheels from china but maybe also the handlebar and stem.


At first is my information about myself and maybe the help you can give on the frame size.


Top Tube Length 55.1 - 55.5 Cm
Seat Tube Range CC 55 - 55.6 Cm
Seat Tube Range CT 56.8 - 57.2 Cm
Stem Length 11.2 - 11.8 Cm
BB Saddle Position 76.4 - 78.4 Cm
Saddle Handlebar 53.8 - 54.4 Cm
Saddle Setback 5.2 - 5.6 Cm


The frame i really like is the velobuild VR-R-066:
VB-R-066 Ultra Light Road Racing Bike Frame made by Toray T-800 Carbon Fiber,Road Frame


As you can see the bracket is bb86, on some dutch forums i read it would be better to buy frame with BSA because of the strange sounds what is less with the BSA bracket. To bad the frame is only BB86.
So still have doubts about the frame, also thinking about the VR-R-022:
VB-R-022 Carbon Fiber Road Bike Frame Set,Road Frame


I would like to give it a paint job like this car i found on google:








Maybe someone can help me with the color code, because i can't find, Chris from velobuild think its code: Pantone 432C


The wheels i would like to buy are:
FLX-WS-CW5 - ShenZhen Flyxii Spor


The group im gonna put on is shimano ultegra 6800.

Like i said the handlebar im not sure if i also should buy from china, or just maybe better from my country (holland)


If people would like to help me with my choices i would really appreciate.


----------



## Huckit25

bkidd1187 said:


> I lurked on this thread and others for months before pulling the trigger on a Chinese open mold frame. I'm an enthusiast and an amateur racer that doesn't take myself too seriously. I was looking for a budget TT frame to mess around with for a race season and keep it if I liked it, or sell it if it really made no significant gains/enjoyment of doing TT's in omnium style race weekends.
> 
> So I looked at Dengfu, Hongfu, Ican, and Workswell. I found the most positive reviews for Dengfu. I've always preferred the minimalist TT frames like the Specialized shiv TT, Look 796, or Giant Trinity. So I decided that the best fit for me was the Dengfu FM087.
> 
> The order process was seamless, it arrived in May, about a month from order. I had most of the components for the build at hand, but still had to order a few odds and ends. Straight out of the box the frameset looked great. Which oddly enough, my local bike shop vouched for the general quality of chinese open mold frames. I took all the parts and frameset to the said bike shop to let them build it properly since I'm not a bike mechanic.
> 
> The first problem was the seatpost didn't fit properly in the frame without it being sanded down quite a bit. No big deal, I've heard the frames may be off spec a little. The major problem with the bike was that after it all was assemble the headset was loose and could not physically be tightened anymore. It would not compress properly. My bike shop tried to add spacers to get a tight fit and could never get anything worked out properly. Basically something was off spec, and with nothing to go by it could have been the frame, headset, or fork. Who knows? Well, now it's August. Race season is almost over. I missed the big TT race I had planned to do in July. I have a bike that you can't ride because it is not safe to ride it.
> 
> I talked to Melody at Dengfu on and off trying to resolve the issue. They keep telling me that nothing is wrong with the bike. Or to take the bike to be assembled by a "master" at a bicycle store. Basically it seems like this is not going to be a problem that is going to be resolved anytime soon. I have not heard from Melody in about 7 or 8 days now. I think they are not sure what is wrong with the bike either, because there is no way to know which part is off spec and is causing it not to fit together properly. I had finally told Dengfu I don't want the bike anymore and that I would be happy to send the frameset back for a full refund if they would foot the shipping bill. They just replied they don't do refunds, and sent me videos of a bike being tested (obviously not my bike, because the bike being tested was white not UD matte carbon like mine) saying something like, "Look the bike passes tests. Headset is fine." And as well as asking me to take it back to the shop and video the guys putting it together to send to show that proper assembly was happening. I said no to all that, I'm not paying anymore money to have my bike shop try and put together a frameset that does not fit together.
> 
> So basically, having been fed up with a bike I cannot use and that is unsafe to use, and since I'm getting no remedy from China. I contacted American Express to start the chargeback process. And if Dengfu does not want the frameset back, I'll scrap the good parts and components off the bike and make some money off the whole deal.
> 
> Luckily I found a 2017 Giant Trinity UCI legal TT frame at a pretty good deal that I can finish out the season with and use next season.....
> 
> The moral of the story, you can be the 1 out of 1,000,000 that receives an open mold bike that does not fit together like it should. And always use a form of payment you can dispute a faulty product with like Amex!!!


This sounds really unfortunate 

Like you I have been lurking on here for some time and recently pulled the trigger on a CX open mold from Flyxii (FR-603)

It was shipped to Denmark through "tax shelter shipping" which was very convenient and quick, and the quality out of the box looked pretty good.

Unfortunately, when I got to the final part of the assembly I found that the disc continually hit the disk brake mount, and I couldn't space the wheel because then the caliper would not reach. 
Basically, there was ~1mm of extra material added to the mounting post. 
I was pretty disappointed and began to mentally prepare myself for sanding my nice new frame. While I did this I wrote a short email to Flyxii explaining my issue, not really expecting any useful reply. I was also annoyed because like you I had heard more positive things about Deng Fu than Flyxii

To my surprise after sending the model type of my wheels (Mavic) and a photo explaining the issue, I was offered a refund, or a new frame sent free of charge! 

I was so taken aback I ordered a set of 50mm clinchers, and another frame for a friend 

I'm sorry your experenice wasn't as surprising/nice


----------



## ms6073

Huckit25 said:


> Basically, there was ~1mm of extra material added to the mounting post.


Glad to he the seller is making good, but also wanted to mention that a bike shop with a Park DT4 would make short work of that issue.

Post mount disc brake facing with Park DT-4


----------



## bkidd1187

Huckit25 said:


> This sounds really unfortunate
> 
> Like you I have been lurking on here for some time and recently pulled the trigger on a CX open mold from Flyxii (FR-603)
> 
> It was shipped to Denmark through "tax shelter shipping" which was very convenient and quick, and the quality out of the box looked pretty good.
> 
> Unfortunately, when I got to the final part of the assembly I found that the disc continually hit the disk brake mount, and I couldn't space the wheel because then the caliper would not reach.
> Basically, there was ~1mm of extra material added to the mounting post.
> I was pretty disappointed and began to mentally prepare myself for sanding my nice new frame. While I did this I wrote a short email to Flyxii explaining my issue, not really expecting any useful reply. I was also annoyed because like you I had heard more positive things about Deng Fu than Flyxii
> 
> To my surprise after sending the model type of my wheels (Mavic) and a photo explaining the issue, I was offered a refund, or a new frame sent free of charge!
> 
> I was so taken aback I ordered a set of 50mm clinchers, and another frame for a friend
> 
> I'm sorry your experenice wasn't as surprising/nice



True, but I'm sure it will all work out in the end. I'm really dissapointed that this frameset didn't work out. I read reviews on this specific frameset with only good things about quality, stiffness, being quite fast. The latest from Dengfu is send the defective frame to another customer in the USA that has ordered an FM087 (and they also think shipping a bike will cost only $30 instead of the actual $91.72 I was quoted by USPS) or close the dispute with my credit card company and I will get immediate refund. Sounds really shady either way. 

And it's probably not realistic to have the bike broken down, packed, and ready to ship by this time frame with the work load the bike shop is currently under. 

I would much prefer they just want the frameset shipped back to them for proper inspection, but I'm sure they know shipping from the USA to China is very expensive. And there's no way I'm going to pay for that. Also that is just bad business ethics to pass on a defective frameset to a fellow customer who is just going to have the same problem I had.



"Our customer in USA must receive our frameset no later than 9th. Generally speaking, it just needs one day to receive if you are both in USA. That's the reason why I ask you to send it no later than 8th. 


If you can't do everything before this time, we must go ahead on Paypal. If that, we will provide all evidence to prove there is no problem of our frame and let Paypal to judge it. In the end, you would not get refund or get refund still need send frameset. But it will take long time, even more than 3 months to deal with it. So as I said we don't want to waste time. Then our boss agrees you to send it back to our customer in USA. After it, we will refund to you.


So pls speed up to send frameset back before 8th. We will send money immediately to you once we receive frameset.


Or you can close dispute on Paypal now. If that, no time limit. We can refund when we receive frameset. You can send it any time. We, as a company, you can trust us. You don't worry we will cheat you. Because if that, you can do everything to defame us or complain us. But for us, you, as a individual customer. We can't do more things if you don't do as you say. So pls understand our request.

Pls give me fast reply. Thanks."


I definitely don't think I'll be canceling the dispute I've opened with my Amex......


----------



## mcian

Hi guys,
after around 6000km my frame (FM066-SL, the steerer tube says R01, weight 0.78Kg) just cracked while i was descending with about 85km/h in the 24h Nurburgring race. Although it happened in a corner and i was barely able to hold the line i was able to stop without crashing.
If you wonder what a frame with a broken top tube feels like in a corner:
It is like sitting on a wobbly piece of toast with big tires that are inflated to minimum. Something like that...

Of course never did i clamp the top tube nor did anything fall onto it. Of course i never crashed or let the bike fall over. I only weigh 72kg. This season i raced several crits on it and never had a problem.

After the manufacturer asked me to send the frame to China i removed all parts and i found the bottom bracket to spin within the shell. It was brand new since i upgraded to a powermeter...
I used a torque wrench and tightened the BB to only 12Nm and marked the BB and frame with a white Edding to see if it would move. I've heard from three people so far that they've experienced the same problem.

Since the frame is only around 10 months old i got an exchange frame. But of course only the frame, seatpost and fork must be ordered seperately and payed for. Since i did not want to have the same frame again i got an upgrade to another frame which costs around 150$ more. In this case i had to pay another 130$ for the fork and seapost.
Shipping is included but i will have to pay again 20% tax. Hopefully they will let the frame through the customs with a low price like this.

Regarding my broken 50$ BB and the 250$ i spend on the 24h race in total i did not get any reply. The hours for wrenching everything off the bike and on again is not payed for by anyone.

My conclusion:
My calculation of saving several hundreds by buying a chinese frame goes down the drain.
I just ordered a Canyon and my spare bike will be my Caad 10 alloy bike i just pulled out of the cellar.











The company selling this frame is one of the major names everyone is talking about. I do not think the name is useful for anyone since the frame is offered by several companies.

I let everyone draw their own conclusions from this story.


----------



## aske

mcian said:


> Hi guys,
> after around 6000km my frame (FM066-SL, the steerer tube says R01, weight 0.78Kg) just cracked while i was descending with about 85km/h in the 24h Nurburgring race. Although it happened in a corner and i was barely able to hold the line i was able to stop without crashing.
> If you wonder what a frame with a broken top tube feels like in a corner:
> It is like sitting on a wobbly piece of toast with big tires that are inflated to minimum. Something like that...
> 
> Of course never did i clamp the top tube nor did anything fall onto it. Of course i never crashed or let the bike fall over. I only weigh 72kg. This season i raced several crits on it and never had a problem.
> 
> After the manufacturer asked me to send the frame to China i removed all parts and i found the bottom bracket to spin within the shell. It was brand new since i upgraded to a powermeter...
> I used a torque wrench and tightened the BB to only 12Nm and marked the BB and frame with a white Edding to see if it would move. I've heard from three people so far that they've experienced the same problem.
> 
> Since the frame is only around 10 months old i got an exchange frame. But of course only the frame, seatpost and fork must be ordered seperately and payed for. Since i did not want to have the same frame again i got an upgrade to another frame which costs around 150$ more. In this case i had to pay another 130$ for the fork and seapost.
> Shipping is included but i will have to pay again 20% tax. Hopefully they will let the frame through the customs with a low price like this.
> 
> Regarding my broken 50$ BB and the 250$ i spend on the 24h race in total i did not get any reply. The hours for wrenching everything off the bike and on again is not payed for by anyone.
> 
> My conclusion:
> My calculation of saving several hundreds by buying a chinese frame goes down the drain.
> I just ordered a Canyon and my spare bike will be my Caad 10 alloy bike i just pulled out of the cellar.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 320068
> 
> 
> The company selling this frame is one of the major names everyone is talking about. I do not think the name is useful for anyone since the frame is offered by several companies.
> 
> I let everyone draw their own conclusions from this story.


Wow! Glad you are ok!
Though I do think the merchant you bought it from is important in this case, since they use different manufacturers. This is not a design issue. It's a manufacturing process issue. 
Fx. if it's from TanTan cycling then it's made by Flybike that makes frames for PlanetX/onOne, Ribble, Fuji, Merckx etc. 
If it's from Flyxii, then this adds to a growing list of unfortunate reports on their quality. Don't know who manufactures for them.
The fact that they use different manufacturers DOES make a difference to where it's purchased.

Also, it would be a heads up for the community 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## bruto

bkidd1187, it's only a headset
get calipers and measure both the bearing(s) - whichever one is loose in its seat - and the seat diameter
if the difference is more than 0.2mm, cut a strip out of a beer can and place it between the bearing and its seat

you can find the standard dimensions for IS42/IS52 drop-in tapered headset (which, I assume, is the subject) here:
http://shop.fullspeedahead.com/en/files/index/download/id/627ec69c87b0442b6228ac2de5791d1897/

if the head tube is way off spec, a photo of digital calipers in the offending seat with diameter clearly readable would probably help you get something out of the seller


----------



## ruckus

bkidd1187 said:


> True, but I'm sure it will all work out in the end. I'm really dissapointed that this frameset didn't work out. I read reviews on this specific frameset with only good things about quality, stiffness, being quite fast. The latest from Dengfu is send the defective frame to another customer in the USA that has ordered an FM087 (and they also think shipping a bike will cost only $30 instead of the actual $91.72 I was quoted by USPS) or close the dispute with my credit card company and I will get immediate refund. Sounds really shady either way.
> 
> And it's probably not realistic to have the bike broken down, packed, and ready to ship by this time frame with the work load the bike shop is currently under.
> 
> I would much prefer they just want the frameset shipped back to them for proper inspection, but I'm sure they know shipping from the USA to China is very expensive. And there's no way I'm going to pay for that. Also that is just bad business ethics to pass on a defective frameset to a fellow customer who is just going to have the same problem I had.
> 
> 
> 
> "Our customer in USA must receive our frameset no later than 9th. Generally speaking, it just needs one day to receive if you are both in USA. That's the reason why I ask you to send it no later than 8th.
> 
> 
> If you can't do everything before this time, we must go ahead on Paypal. If that, we will provide all evidence to prove there is no problem of our frame and let Paypal to judge it. In the end, you would not get refund or get refund still need send frameset. But it will take long time, even more than 3 months to deal with it. So as I said we don't want to waste time. Then our boss agrees you to send it back to our customer in USA. After it, we will refund to you.
> 
> 
> So pls speed up to send frameset back before 8th. We will send money immediately to you once we receive frameset.
> 
> 
> Or you can close dispute on Paypal now. If that, no time limit. We can refund when we receive frameset. You can send it any time. We, as a company, you can trust us. You don't worry we will cheat you. Because if that, you can do everything to defame us or complain us. But for us, you, as a individual customer. We can't do more things if you don't do as you say. So pls understand our request.
> 
> Pls give me fast reply. Thanks."
> 
> 
> I definitely don't think I'll be canceling the dispute I've opened with my Amex......


Document well. Get your bike mechanic to document everything. And send it to American Express. Because this is now between your Amex and Paypal. It's on you to prove you received a defective product. Overwhelm Amex and Paypa with evidence, you'll surely get your refund. Cause as you stated, it's unsafe, prove to Amex that the product is not just defective, but unsafe to ride. Good luck!



mcian said:


> Hi guys,
> after around 6000km my frame (FM066-SL, the steerer tube says R01, weight 0.78Kg) just cracked while i was descending with about 85km/h in the 24h Nurburgring race. Although it happened in a corner and i was barely able to hold the line i was able to stop without crashing.
> If you wonder what a frame with a broken top tube feels like in a corner:
> It is like sitting on a wobbly piece of toast with big tires that are inflated to minimum. Something like that...
> 
> Of course never did i clamp the top tube nor did anything fall onto it. Of course i never crashed or let the bike fall over. I only weigh 72kg. This season i raced several crits on it and never had a problem.
> 
> After the manufacturer asked me to send the frame to China i removed all parts and i found the bottom bracket to spin within the shell. It was brand new since i upgraded to a powermeter...
> I used a torque wrench and tightened the BB to only 12Nm and marked the BB and frame with a white Edding to see if it would move. I've heard from three people so far that they've experienced the same problem.
> 
> Since the frame is only around 10 months old i got an exchange frame. But of course only the frame, seatpost and fork must be ordered seperately and payed for. Since i did not want to have the same frame again i got an upgrade to another frame which costs around 150$ more. In this case i had to pay another 130$ for the fork and seapost.
> Shipping is included but i will have to pay again 20% tax. Hopefully they will let the frame through the customs with a low price like this.
> 
> Regarding my broken 50$ BB and the 250$ i spend on the 24h race in total i did not get any reply. The hours for wrenching everything off the bike and on again is not payed for by anyone.
> 
> My conclusion:
> My calculation of saving several hundreds by buying a chinese frame goes down the drain.
> I just ordered a Canyon and my spare bike will be my Caad 10 alloy bike i just pulled out of the cellar.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 320068
> 
> 
> The company selling this frame is one of the major names everyone is talking about. I do not think the name is useful for anyone since the frame is offered by several companies.
> 
> I let everyone draw their own conclusions from this story.


Sucks. Glad they offered to replace the frame and cost little to get you back on the bike. My conclusion? You lucked out a lot more if you went with Trek. They would have offered a crash a replacement, as you'd have to prove this wasn't just a spontaneous crack, and that they would believe you. That's the problem with Trek/Specialized, great warranty on paper, get them to honor the warranty is the problem. My other conclusion, that's the risk of anything mass manufactured. If my AKG K712 headphones break, my conclusion isn't going to be all AKG headphones suck. It sucks when things break on us, but that's the risk we take for the modern efficient, and cheap mass manufacturing. How many people do I know with defective iPhones? Nearly everyone I know who has owned iPhones has had problems with them breaking, and Apple support being, buy a new one. Yet people keep buying them. You come to your own conclusion.

Importantly, you're safe. It's up to you to decide if you continue to ride these frames, but just remember, Trek/Specialized etc don't make frames. And even companies like Giant and Merida don't make all of them, they do outsource to factories in China. So you're screwed if you don't trust Chinese manufacturing.


----------



## Honda Guy

Hi all,

Has anybody had experience with Tideace forks? I like my teeth and would like to know if these have a bad reputation or not. Link is below.

Full Carbon Fiber Fork 1 1/2 Tapered Forks 700C Ultralight Road Bike Front Fork | eBay


----------



## 504yaj

seems awfully quiet here after the post above shwoing the cracked FM-066SL. AFAIK these frames have a very bad reputation for cracking.. check out the FM066 review in youtube


----------



## varian72

504yaj said:


> seems awfully quiet here after the post above shwoing the cracked FM-066SL. AFAIK these frames have a very bad reputation for cracking.. check out the FM066 review in youtube


I'm surprised there are not more posts like that!! The fact there are not many people posting JRA broken frames probably says they are relatively OK frames. 

I'll admit I am still nervous about mine and I am looking at a carbon gravel bike which will make me even more nervous given the terrain, but the bike feels as solid as any other bike I've ridden.


----------



## 504yaj

varian72 said:


> I'm surprised there are not more posts like that!! The fact there are not many people posting JRA broken frames probably says they are relatively OK frames.
> 
> I'll admit I am still nervous about mine and I am looking at a carbon gravel bike which will make me even more nervous given the terrain, but the bike feels as solid as any other bike I've ridden.


I'd probably stick with open mold frames with generally good reviews in forums like this. It took me a year before I decided to order my frame (R022 from velobuild). Its been 2 years since and the thing just wont break everytime I take it for a ride (i weigh 250lbs+)


----------



## dasein

Hey all-

I am looking for advice. I wish to find a aero carbon road frame with BB30.

I like the VBR-0-99 but the BB is wrong. I would love to find something with brakes like aforementioned frame but with regular QR and BB30 from someone reliable.

Suggestions?

Jay.


----------



## davidof

*HQR01 frame*

Finally got my HQR01 built up. I got some stickers off Marco in Brazil

Stickers Design

then 2K'd the frame with matt clearcoat. I'm not totally happy with the paint job... frames are difficult to spray and I'm not sure matt clearcoat is that easy to work with.










I've ridden the bike about 250km, not really enough to tell you about the reliability. The build with Campag Potenza was easy including fitting the headset and bottom bracket (a bb386 Ultratorque). The tolerances and engineering seem good. No creaks so far.

The bike is pretty much identical to my Deng-Fu FM028 in terms of geometry although looks different. It feels stiffer though, particularly around the BB. Overall weight built is 8kg including pedals, bottle cage... clear coat paint 

Handling feels good. No surprises up to 80 kph. I'm running the el-cheapo Wiggle Prime Peleton wheelset which don't come that true but with an hour of fettling with a spoke key are not that bad.

I have done one longer ride, a big loop over the Col du Noyer in the Hautes-Alpes.









I will report back around the 1000km mark if people are interested.

HQR01-Carbon road bike frame


----------



## Henry Chinaski

I'll just leave this here

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/carbon-conundrum-pole-bicycles-ditch-their-plastic-project.html


----------



## oct3

Henry Chinaski said:


> I'll just leave this here
> 
> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/carbon-conundrum-pole-bicycles-ditch-their-plastic-project.html


Two easy ways to tell whether someone is full of it:

1) they claim their bikes are "handmade", implying that others aren't.

2) they claim one process is labor intensive, implying that another isn't.

Biased article is biased.


----------



## Henry Chinaski

oct3 said:


> Two easy ways to tell whether someone is full of it:
> 
> 1) they claim their bikes are "handmade", implying that others aren't.
> 
> 2) they claim one process is labor intensive, implying that another isn't.
> 
> Biased article is biased.


I don't think you read it. First of all, it's an interview. Of course someone who is being interviewed is biased. That is the point of an interview. To understand someone's bias or point of view.

The word "handmade" does not appear anywhere.

Here's where Leo Kokkonen talks about labor intensive: "Carbon fiber frame manufacturing is labor intensive work. We learned that there’s no way of automating the carbon fiber process."


----------



## oct3

If you think that's an actual interview, then your standards for journalism integrity have been compromised - I respect November bicycles way more for being honest about the reasons for their not using carbon in their products.

Aluminum was the new steel, carbon the new aluminum, then it was back to steel, and now back to aluminum. Since innovation in cycling is mostly limited to marketing, I would also add 'yawn'.

BTW someone tell the 'interviewee' and 'interviewer' to stop using whatever electronic devices they're using to browse and push content to the Internet, and only stick with fully recyclable, ethically made, iPhone and iMac replacements, which my friend is conveniently selling for €10,000 a piece.

It's no small price, but if it makes someone feel better about their consumerism, it's worth it right?


----------



## Henry Chinaski

oct3 said:


> If you think that's an actual interview, then your standards for journalism integrity have been compromised - I respect November bicycles way more for being honest about the reasons for their not using carbon in their products.
> 
> Aluminum was the new steel, carbon the new aluminum, then it was back to steel, and now back to aluminum. Since innovation in cycling is mostly limited to marketing, I would also add 'yawn'.
> 
> BTW someone tell the 'interviewee' and 'interviewer' to stop using whatever electronic devices they're using to browse and push content to the Internet, and only stick with fully recyclable, ethically made, iPhone and iMac replacements, which my friend is conveniently selling for €10,000 a piece.
> 
> It's no small price, but if it makes someone feel better about their consumerism, it's worth it right?


what are you talking about?


----------



## aeonic

Hi all,

I'm looking for a carbon road frame with discs, which I'd like to mate to 105 groupset and hydraulic discs, I suppose flat mount shimanos, but I'm not 100% sure if there's any other good standard of hydraulic discs now.

Curious if anyone has any opinions on this frame: Seraph TT-X10 (by Tan Tan Cycling). 

I see a lot of you seem to buy from Velobuild, and found a frame but their pages lack some info like, what kind of calipers fit on it (looking at their VB-R-057 frame), I guess I can ask them, but it seems like a natural thing to document. Oh well.

I'm looking at name brand bikes too, but, this is going to sound dumb, their colors are atrocious, I just can't spend $2-3k on a bike that I hate the looks of, in the narrow set of models that have the options I want in the general price point I want. On top of that, the chance of finding one at a LBS is even lower, so yeah, it's a case of I want to give someone money, and I'm finding it hard to do so 

Thanks in advance for any advice on the above frames!


----------



## aske

aeonic said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm looking for a carbon road frame with discs, which I'd like to mate to 105 groupset and hydraulic discs, I suppose flat mount shimanos, but I'm not 100% sure if there's any other good standard of hydraulic discs now.
> 
> Curious if anyone has any opinions on this frame: Seraph TT-X10 (by Tan Tan Cycling).
> 
> I see a lot of you seem to buy from Velobuild, and found a frame but their pages lack some info like, what kind of calipers fit on it (looking at their VB-R-057 frame), I guess I can ask them, but it seems like a natural thing to document. Oh well.
> 
> I'm looking at name brand bikes too, but, this is going to sound dumb, their colors are atrocious, I just can't spend $2-3k on a bike that I hate the looks of, in the narrow set of models that have the options I want in the general price point I want. On top of that, the chance of finding one at a LBS is even lower, so yeah, it's a case of I want to give someone money, and I'm finding it hard to do so
> 
> Thanks in advance for any advice on the above frames!


I have not used any of them. But I know that TanTan is manufactured by Fly Bike, which is a big Chinese manufacturer producing frames for many brands. I have looked at TanTan road bikes myself.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## Maelochs

Looks like they carry most fo the same frames that most of the big-name Chinese CF frame vendors carry ... probably, because, as aske notes, they all buy from Fly Bikes.

I am bookmarking their page for future research .... I have a pair of Chinese CF frames and might want another in the future.

I have not heard many good things about Velobuild lately .... everyone I know who has had satisfaction has gone directly to one of the vendors with long histories (Hongfu, Dengfu, Workswell ... Flyxii, and now, Tan Tan I guess) or found something on Ebay where again, it is best to find vendors who have long histories.

I just got some Shimano 105 post-mounts--I haven't heard of any other brand that was significantly better. I also haven't installed them yet. We shall see. 

As for the overall ... buying a Chinabomb (a Chinese CF frame which people Used to claim would "asplode" and kill everyone within a block) and a 105 group from one of the UK vendors, $400 for wheels and for $1600-$1800 you can have an 18-lb bike painted to order, built with the parts you want .... 

Not always a better deal financially (you can find some excellent deals on built-up bikes if you are patient) but you will have the bike You want, for the same money as buying a bike Someone Else wants you to want.


----------



## Steve B.

Maelochs said:


> Looks like they carry most fo the same frames that most of the big-name Chinese CF frame
> .
> As for the overall ... buying a Chinabomb (a Chinese CF frame which people Used to claim would "asplode" and kill everyone within a block) and a 105 group from one of the UK vendors, $400 for wheels and for $1600-$1800 you can have an 18-lb bike painted to order, built with the parts you want ....
> 
> Not always a better deal financially (you can find some excellent deals on built-up bikes if you are patient) but you will have the bike You want, for the same money as buying a bike Someone Else wants you to want.


You generally get MUCH better wheels when custom ordering, then whats on a production bike. Especially at the $1200 price point for a carbon with 105.


----------



## poxpower

Recently decided to replace my beat 2013 supersix evo, sram red 10 speed. Looking at chinese carbon stuff and the info is mixed, even on here. 

I have bought 2 chinese wheelsets ( carbonspeedcycle) and they were perfectly fine with great service, making big name retailers seem like a total joke in comparison. All my further dealings with chinese manufacturers have been fast, cheap and easy. So there's that.

I've been looking at this frame: VB-R-077 carbon fiber road frame for etap

Anyone have info on this? 
How does this one compare to a supersix evo hi-mod frame?
Anyone know any good ultra light climbing chinese frames? 

All the info I can find keeps leading me to the same 2-3 chinese frames for climbing which seem comparable to my supersix. I can buy that bike used with sram red for under 2k, so I'm trying to see if it's worth it at all to build a bike from one of these chinese frames.


----------



## apctjb

*Chinese frames? Emonda like in weight and Domane like in Geometry.*

Looking for recommendations on reputable Chinese carbon frames for a road bike building project.

Ideal frame would be less than 800-900g (non disk) with a geometry that leans more to the relaxed-sportive end of the spectrum than aggressive aero/racing. Think Emonda in weight and Domane like geometry.

Any suggestions of frames to consider much appreciated.


----------



## Maelochs

Workswell 093. (WCB-R-093 Normal V brake-workswellbikes) Tall head tube should facilitate an upright riding position.

The Ultralight version is a little pricey but the regular version ought to come in around $500-$600 and weigh about 900 grams for a 58-cm frame.


----------



## BassLake

Dengfu FM029A UV damage. The white on the forks has turned a nasty yellow. Anyone know what can be used to paint over polyester paint?


----------



## aske

BassLake said:


> Dengfu FM029A UV damage. The white on the forks has turned a nasty yellow. Anyone know what can be used to paint over polyester paint?
> View attachment 320938


Can't help you with paint advice, but that sucks! When is it from?

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## BassLake

aske said:


> Can't help you with paint advice, but that sucks! When is it from?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


This is the end of its second season with 20k on the ODO. The yellowing started almost immediately. I emailed Dengfu and for some reason they have no idea what paint I could use to recoat the forks. Below is a picture when it was new.


----------



## bvber

Personally, I would use car paint (available at auto parts store). White is easy to find.


----------



## BassLake

Looks like I'm making a trip to my local Canadian Tire for some supplies.


----------



## apctjb

Maelochs said:


> Workswell 093. (WCB-R-093 Normal V brake-workswellbikes) Tall head tube should facilitate an upright riding position.
> 
> The Ultralight version is a little pricey but the regular version ought to come in around $500-$600 and weigh about 900 grams for a 58-cm frame.


Yes, the Workswell 093 seems like a good choice. I have emailed them a couple of times but no response. Are they the manufacturer or reseller, and if reseller is the frame available from any other source?

Thanks


----------



## Maelochs

Try [email protected]

I don't know who their official FB reseller is but I am pretty sure they have a site


----------



## nania

I figured I'd activate this thread rather than start a new one since my interest is the same here. With the myriad of AliExpress vendors, how do you search for the best vendors?


----------



## DCash

nania said:


> I figured I'd activate this thread rather than start a new one since my interest is the same here. With the myriad of AliExpress vendors, how do you search for the best vendors?


Research! That was part of the fun for me, reading about all the different frames and finding the one that was right for what I wanted. This thread isn't as active as it used to be but there is still a lot of information.

Although Aliexpress is a good place to look at the frames you will normally get a better price contacting the vendor through their own site. Buying my frames directly from Hongfu saved me about $130.


----------



## Steve B.

Ditto dcash, go direct.

Hongfu, Dengfu, Flyxii, Workswell, all sell direct.

I had a very good experience with Flyxii and love the bike, 2000 miles later. One thing I really, really like about some of these frames is they still offer BSA bottom brackets. Huge advantage, IMO.


----------



## nania

What kind of numbers will I pay for a sub 1500g aero frame, fork, headset and seat post?


----------



## meeeeep

Yourshouldn't pay more than $600 usd for a frame.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## tincaman

This is frameset from a small supplier in the UK. Does anyone know which open mould frameset this is that they are using? It is quite distinctive around the top tube.


----------



## Jbridge

Does anyone have experience with the EC90 brand of components? Specifically the aero bars, stems, seat posts. I’ve seen them on AliExpress and EBay. There’s also some YouTube vids but just curious if anyone has some ride time on them and thought. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Steve B.

I've seen similar frames, just cannot recall who's.

Not a Workswell, Dengfu, Hongfu or Flyxii and it's not coming up in an AliExpress site, as far as I looked.


----------



## DCash

Jbridge said:


> Does anyone have experience with the EC90 brand of components? Specifically the aero bars, stems, seat posts. I’ve seen them on AliExpress and EBay. There’s also some YouTube vids but just curious if anyone has some ride time on them and thought. Thanks in advance.


Like Easton EC90? The Easton stuff is great, but expensive. If you're seeing $40 seat posts or handlebars they are probably knock offs. I trust my unbranded parts and have put thousands of miles on them. I will never trust a counterfeit.


----------



## Jbridge

DCash said:


> Like Easton EC90? The Easton stuff is great, but expensive. If you're seeing $40 seat posts or handlebars they are probably knock offs. I trust my unbranded parts and have put thousands of miles on them. I will never trust a counterfeit.



Thanks for the heads up. What supplier did you purchase your unbranded parts from?


----------



## fronesis

DCash said:


> Like Easton EC90? The Easton stuff is great, but expensive. If you're seeing $40 seat posts or handlebars they are probably knock offs. I trust my unbranded parts and have put thousands of miles on them. I will never trust a counterfeit.


+1

I'd trust any of the big china factories (Flyxii, hongfu, dengfu, workswell, light bicycle, etc. etc.) who sell plain carbon components. My household has about 30,000 miles on Flyxii bikes and components. But I would never ride a mile on a counterfeit: the product itself is a fraud, so how could you possibly trust it?


----------



## DCash

Jbridge said:


> Thanks for the heads up. What supplier did you purchase your unbranded parts from?


Two frames, seatposts, and bars from HongFu. Wheels from Baixaing, but they changed their name.


----------



## 92gli

Anyone know another vendor that sells the fm079-f (flat mount)? Got a quote from hongfu but it seems a bit high.


----------



## ruckus

Agreed with others. Glad you're OK. But, a carbon frame cracked? Not surprised. I've read worse from Trek/Bianchi/Canyon/Giant etc, and customers having far worse experience from refusal to replace the frame, extraordinary prices that are supposedly discounted for crash replacement or ridiculous price for repair. So my conclusion? You faired a lot better than from other customers from big brands like Canyon.



mcian said:


> Hi guys,
> after around 6000km my frame (FM066-SL, the steerer tube says R01, weight 0.78Kg) just cracked while i was descending with about 85km/h in the 24h Nurburgring race. Although it happened in a corner and i was barely able to hold the line i was able to stop without crashing.
> If you wonder what a frame with a broken top tube feels like in a corner:
> It is like sitting on a wobbly piece of toast with big tires that are inflated to minimum. Something like that...
> 
> Of course never did i clamp the top tube nor did anything fall onto it. Of course i never crashed or let the bike fall over. I only weigh 72kg. This season i raced several crits on it and never had a problem.
> 
> After the manufacturer asked me to send the frame to China i removed all parts and i found the bottom bracket to spin within the shell. It was brand new since i upgraded to a powermeter...
> I used a torque wrench and tightened the BB to only 12Nm and marked the BB and frame with a white Edding to see if it would move. I've heard from three people so far that they've experienced the same problem.
> 
> Since the frame is only around 10 months old i got an exchange frame. But of course only the frame, seatpost and fork must be ordered seperately and payed for. Since i did not want to have the same frame again i got an upgrade to another frame which costs around 150$ more. In this case i had to pay another 130$ for the fork and seapost.
> Shipping is included but i will have to pay again 20% tax. Hopefully they will let the frame through the customs with a low price like this.
> 
> Regarding my broken 50$ BB and the 250$ i spend on the 24h race in total i did not get any reply. The hours for wrenching everything off the bike and on again is not payed for by anyone.
> 
> My conclusion:
> My calculation of saving several hundreds by buying a chinese frame goes down the drain.
> I just ordered a Canyon and my spare bike will be my Caad 10 alloy bike i just pulled out of the cellar.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 320068
> 
> 
> The company selling this frame is one of the major names everyone is talking about. I do not think the name is useful for anyone since the frame is offered by several companies.
> 
> I let everyone draw their own conclusions from this story.


----------



## Jbridge

fronesis said:


> +1
> 
> I'd trust any of the big china factories (Flyxii, hongfu, dengfu, workswell, light bicycle, etc. etc.) who sell plain carbon components. My household has about 30,000 miles on Flyxii bikes and components. But I would never ride a mile on a counterfeit: the product itself is a fraud, so how could you possibly trust it?


 Well I took some of the advise from here and placed an order for a seat and integrated handlebar from flyxii. The seat came pretty quickly, within a couple weeks, but no sign of the handlebar or separate tracking or anything. After multiple emails I finally got a response saying I’ll get a refund. I’m a bit disappointed with that as it’s delayed me a month from building my frame now but I guess this is how it goes when dealing with overseas. Now everyone over there is on holiday for Chinese New Year and it’s crickets on getting any email responses for ordering.

Does anyone know if any of the big factories above have eBay stores? I just ask this because of the buyer protection. I like being able to have the PayPal/EBay protection. I’m going to look around for another integrated bar/stem combo so if anyone has one they like and own let me know and where you got it. Thanks!


----------



## 00Garza

Hey everyone. Just purchased a used FM-011 from a fb group. This will be my second Chinese frame I ride. Previously rode a R-022 from velobuild. 

Quick question. What do people use to cover di2 holes if you’re using mechanical?


----------



## scycotic

Hey! Just purchased my first Chinese carbon frame and was wondering if I'm just unlucky or if this is the norm (also I posted a similar post in the cyclocross thread, didn't realize everyone was over here!)

Ordered the FR-603 direct from Flyxii (through Paypal). Arrived in around a month, but missing the headset and seatpost clamp they said they would include. Emailed them and it arrived a few weeks later. All good so far.

- A few blemishes on the paint job, no big deal.
- Epoxy in the threads of the BSA BB, no big deal, I retapped it with some BB taps
- Realized one of the fork brake post mount screws was inserted at an angle, cross-threading the aluminum insert. Emailed (Yang is the person who's replying) and still trying to see what they'll do about it. Has anyone tried retapping these before? I have taps, but I'm worried it won't be safe with the reduced thread material. 
- Just found out that the derailleur hanger was badly machined. One of the M4 mounting holes was machined at an angle so the flat head doesn't sit flush. Haven't emailed the seller yet, trying to resolve one thing at a time. Wheels Manufacturing sells it (#148) for $40 so that may have to be my last resort.

Fingers-crossed they'll back their product, really don't want to have to file a Paypal dispute.


----------



## bvber

^ That doesn't sound normal. I've bought a frame set from Flyxii before and didn't have any problem at all. You may want to opt for a return / exchange the whole thing or a refund.


----------



## aske

scycotic said:


> Hey! Just purchased my first Chinese carbon frame and was wondering if I'm just unlucky or if this is the norm (also I posted a similar post in the cyclocross thread, didn't realize everyone was over here!)
> 
> Ordered the FR-603 direct from Flyxii (through Paypal). Arrived in around a month, but missing the headset and seatpost clamp they said they would include. Emailed them and it arrived a few weeks later. All good so far.
> 
> - A few blemishes on the paint job, no big deal.
> - Epoxy in the threads of the BSA BB, no big deal, I retapped it with some BB taps
> - Realized one of the fork brake post mount screws was inserted at an angle, cross-threading the aluminum insert. Emailed (Yang is the person who's replying) and still trying to see what they'll do about it. Has anyone tried retapping these before? I have taps, but I'm worried it won't be safe with the reduced thread material.
> - Just found out that the derailleur hanger was badly machined. One of the M4 mounting holes was machined at an angle so the flat head doesn't sit flush. Haven't emailed the seller yet, trying to resolve one thing at a time. Wheels Manufacturing sells it (#148) for $40 so that may have to be my last resort.
> 
> Fingers-crossed they'll back their product, really don't want to have to file a Paypal dispute.


This is not normal. Gather all the flaws in a list and ask for replacement or refund.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## scycotic

bvber said:


> ^ That doesn't sound normal. I've bought a frame set from Flyxii before and didn't have any problem at all. You may want to opt for a return / exchange the whole thing or a refund.





aske said:


> This is not normal. Gather all the flaws in a list and ask for replacement or refund.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


Thanks! I've compiled it all with photos and sent them an email. We'll see what happens. Felt bad asking for a full refund seeing as the frame itself seems ok, I've asked if they'll be willing to replace the fork and derailleur hanger or provide a partial refund.

Will update once I hear back!


----------



## DCash

00Garza said:


> Hey everyone. Just purchased a used FM-011 from a fb group. This will be my second Chinese frame I ride. Previously rode a R-022 from velobuild.
> 
> Quick question. What do people use to cover di2 holes if you’re using mechanical?


Originally the frame would've come with rubber covers for the DI2 wire holes and and replacement inserts for the shift cable stops.


----------



## 92gli

Still trying to get an FM079-F. The only vendor I could find without creating an Alibaba account was hong fu. Have been dealing with vicky. The time difference was been a challenge. Email responses are a full day apart. First response took a week, probably because of Chinese New year. No big deal but wish they had a site which can process orders by now. So I finally get a PayPal invoice Tuesday and pay them. 
Then I get an email last night saying they don't have a frame available with matte clear coat, only raw frames. 

She sent me a photo and it's literally right from final sanding and covered in dust and fingerprints. I didn't know this option is even available, I guess it is for people that are going to have their frame custom painted. Needless to say, I want a frame that has a clear coat on it so I have to wait another week for them to ship. God I hope it's right when it gets here.


----------



## scycotic

bvber said:


> ^ That doesn't sound normal. I've bought a frame set from Flyxii before and didn't have any problem at all. You may want to opt for a return / exchange the whole thing or a refund.





scycotic said:


> Thanks! I've compiled it all with photos and sent them an email. We'll see what happens. Felt bad asking for a full refund seeing as the frame itself seems ok, I've asked if they'll be willing to replace the fork and derailleur hanger or provide a partial refund.
> 
> Will update once I hear back!


Update on this: Flyxii originally wanted me to ship it back for them to inspect, but considering the cost to ship from Canada to China is ~$175 and I paid $400 for the whole thing, they've issued me a partial refund. Now I just have to source another derailleur hanger and fork.


----------



## 00Garza

DCash said:


> Originally the frame would've come with rubber covers for the DI2 wire holes and and replacement inserts for the shift cable stops.


Didn't come with them as I bought it used. Original owner had di2. Was just wondering if anyone had simple solutions to it.


----------



## Bremerradkurier

OG-Evkin CF25/Velobuild r066 Canyon ultimate frame arrived yesterday-890 gram frame, 350 uncut fork, 165 seatpost. Paint looks good, BB86, seatpost, and steertube dims all good and concentric.


----------



## 92gli

My FM079F arrived Thursday. Frame is nice, all measurements check out. But they forgot to put my freaking fork in the box. So I wait, another week or two..

Also, I now know that the frame dropout is NOT threaded for the axle. I'm freaking out that the fork will also show up the same way, but the catalog notes the thread pitch so I hope that will be ok. This really disappointing as I wanted to use maxle stealths front and rear.


----------



## 92gli

For the frame, It appears I can use an ibis hexle with 1.5 pitch threads and either a shimano or paul components nut. Problem solved it seems. Fingers crossed on the fork.


----------



## Bremerradkurier

Bremerradkurier said:


> OG-Evkin CF25/Velobuild r066 Canyon ultimate frame arrived yesterday-890 gram frame, 350 uncut fork, 165 seatpost. Paint looks good, BB86, seatpost, and steertube dims all good and concentric.


Done building-7.68kg/16.93lb


----------



## bvber

^ Are you sure you don't want to tilt up the handlebar little?


----------



## Metaluna

*Workswell gravel frames*

Does anyone here have experience with the Workswell gravel frames, specifically the WCB-R-146?
WCB-R-146-workswellbikes

Just wondering how well these frames hold up over time and the general workmanship of the company (I've mostly heard good things about them). This frame is only available with BB86 (according to the rep I'm speaking to) so I'm a little worried about that but I'm hoping that something like a Wheels Mfg threaded BB will head off any problems.


----------



## eecc

Is this promo legit? If so, anyone interested in this group buy with me? HongFu FM008 or FM088. I think the retail price on their frameset is $580.


----------



## Steve B.

eecc said:


> Is this promo legit? If so, anyone interested in this group buy with me? HongFu FM008 or FM088. I think the retail price on their frameset is $580.
> 
> View attachment 322271


Maybe they have a sense of humor.


----------



## 92gli

I don't think it's a joke cause they emailed it to all prior customers and $100 off is certainly not unrealistic.


----------



## 92gli

The long awaited Hong Fu FM079F! I think this may be the first one on here.
Was quite a project getting this. After some very confusing back and forth with jenny, and then finding out that they had no stock on hand, the frame showed up with no fork. That took another week. Despite the website showing both 12 and 15mm axle options for the fork, they only make 15. I'm fine with it, I already had the 15mm maxle stealth. These forks ARE threaded, unlike the frame.

Notes - 
- For the fork, you need the 15mm sram maxle stealth.
- For the frame, I used an Ibis Hexle for "shimano boost". It's actual length is 171mm and it works perfect with a shimano axle nut.
- You'll need to replace the grub screw on the drive side dropout with a longer screw for holding the nut in place while you tighten the axle. The supplied grub screw is too short. I had a hex screw that worked perfect.(see pic).
- The cable guide straws that came in the frame didn't cross the headtube. I like my cables to cross so they were useless. Luckily it wasn't too much of a ***** to run the cables. I only needed a guide wire to get the RD cable from the BB to the end of the chainstay. Grommets for the brake hose are a little too flexible and aren't staying put. I'll be looking into other options for those.
- The non drive side bottom bracket cup pressed in with only hand pressure... not good. I re-installed with a ton of blue loctite, hopefully it's secure and won't make noise. 
- Tires shown are 25s. I have 28mm schwalbe ones on the way. Plenty of room. However, the chainstays are not symmetrical, there is less clearance on the drive side.
- Rear brake mount had a good bit of excess resin I had to shave off. Alignment of both brake mounts was perfect once I took care of that.

(Haven't finalized my stem height or wrapped the bars). Weight as shown is 18lbs on the nose. Ultegra drivetrain and brakes (except the 105 cranks), easton ec90 bars, bontrager rxl stem, dt spline r32 wheels, bontrager r2 tubeless tires, 160 front rotor, 140 rear, spech avatar saddle, fsa slk post, speedplay pedals.


----------



## musicmaster

Hi All,

So... 6.5 years and thousands of miles later, my FR301 Flyxii frame is toast.

RD hanger broke off (my fault because I noticed a wrinkle in it, but was too lazy to replace at the time) breaking 2 spokes and trashing one of the rear stays. 

Looking for a replacement frame now. I'm in Denver, so lots of hilly riding, plus I throw aero-bars on it for my Triathlons (don't currently see a need for a TT bike in CO). 

Based on an old email, this is what the old frame was:

FR301
TT 540
ST 52
HT 140
HTA 72.5
STA 73.5
WB 977

By the looks, it seems that FLX-FR-322 might be close, and a really good price ($350). Anything else that'd be worth looking into? The 52CM FR301 I currently have felt like a hair too long - I ended up putting a 65CM stem on it, but I'm not sure if going down to the 50 with a longer stem is a good idea or not, especially with a shorter wheelbase and going 40+ down CO mountain roads.


----------



## .je

A VB-R-066 (also known as the OG-CF025) in S might suit you, right about your target. You can buy from their mfr direct, but it's about the same price.


----------



## Bremerradkurier

bvber said:


> ^ Are you sure you don't want to tilt up the handlebar little?


Started riding in the '80s; kind of used to having the drop ends parallel to the ground.


----------



## jnichols

Hi everyone! I'm probably gonna buy my first Chinese carbon frameset pretty soon and I've been trying to do my homework as best as I can so I don't regret the purchase. Does anyone on here have experience with the Dengfu R03 frame? I can get the frameset for $299 and free shipping, which seems pretty unbeatable. 

The R03 is one of Dengfu's older models (I think), but other than that, I can't find anything obviously wrong with it. I know it's not a top of the line frame, but that's okay with me. It's a huge step up from my ancient Trek 1000 (last produced 11 years ago, I believe) and I'm a student on a tight budget. 

I would really appreciate all the helpful knowledge and opinions you have to offer. For reference, this frame is very similar to the Canyon Aeroad, and also goes by the name fm268 from a different company. If there's already a discussion about this, please just send me in the right direction. I looked around quite a bit and never found any.


----------



## Padawan38

Hello,

I’m looking for a carbon aero disc thru axle frame around 500$.
I’ve spotted 2 models but I’m opened to more suggestions with same look (short rear triangle).
What I’d like to get is information about those models, are they reliable ? weak features ?
Then, is there Chinese brand that are better ? others to avoid ?

Thanks for your feedback
Rgds
P

Miracle RD525
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/Chri...arbon-frame-49cm-and-58cm-3K/32784947731.html

Anglecycle AG348
2018 T800 CARBON FIBER ENDURANCE ROAD DISC BRAKE BIKE FRAMESET--Angle Sport Equipments CO., LTD.


----------



## Jbridge

There’s some good feedback on the Yoeleo R6. It’s a little above your price range but I’ve heard nothing but good things on the company and some good reviews on the bike on YouTube. 
https://www.yoeleobike.com/carbon-r6-disc-brake-aero-road-frameset.html


----------



## Ritalalala

The ICAN carbon frame and wheelset I bought from China looks good and comes with a solid Shimano Ultegra/105 blend drivetrain.


----------



## Tommyroad1

Here is my nightmare with chinese carbon wheels. I bought a set on the internet. Watched a guy on the web who gave several names of good sellers of chinese carbon wheels. I tried one this is when the nightmare started. I road them on my usual ride at high speed i could feel something wrong. I finished my ride,and turned my bike up side down. I then turned my pedals at a high speed. Bam! It shook the whole bike. I then put my mavic kysirum pro sls on. Spun the crank,at a high speed. No bad vibration at all. So then i put my chinese wheels back on. Turned the bike over spun the wheels couldnt really see the wheel move to much. Heres my thought vibration while riding can't be good on your frame. I contacted the manufacture of the wheels in china. They make them for several dealers. They told me to contact the seller. I told them you made it,i just want to buy another rear wheel. The front one was great and true. She said they would sell me one for more than i paid. Jerks! . So i looked more closely at the hub while turning the rear wheel. I looked down by where the spokes are mounted to the hub. Non drive side you could see it was out of round. Junk so now i have one good front wheel,and no rear wheel. The sound of the hub doesn't sound right either. So i spent 300 dollars on chinese wheels. My suggestion to you all is go through your wheels,look at wheels inside out look at the hub too. Im going to buy another set when i can aford a good set of carbon wheels. I checked out yoeleo wheels to much for chinese carbon wheels. So buyer beware, if you buy some on line try to pay with pay pal. They will help you get your money back with there guarantee they have. They deal with the seller if you cant agree with them. Good luck !


----------



## jnichols

Just got an FM286 frameset from Seraph! Can anyone provide me some insight about the photos below? These are the only flaws I've seen so far.

The first is the head tube, showing some ridges in the carbon on the inside. I'm not too worried about that, but hopefully someone can confirm if it's a non-issue.

Second one is one of the cable routing holes. It looks like it was just punched in roughly and no grommet was installed. Anyone know what I can or should do about that. I'm sure I can find a grommet somewhere, but what about that strange and terrible looking hole?


----------



## bvber

jnichols said:


> The first is the head tube, showing some ridges in the carbon on the inside. I'm not too worried about that, but hopefully someone can confirm if it's a non-issue.


My Chinese carbon frame looks like that too. I think it's normal.



> Second one is one of the cable routing holes. It looks like it was just punched in roughly and no grommet was installed. Anyone know what I can or should do about that. I'm sure I can find a grommet somewhere, but what about that strange and terrible looking hole?


That looks like the cable out for front derailleur. It's a nonissue as long as the cable moves freely.


----------



## Tommyroad1

Send it back asap or they wont take it back. Dont risk your life on something cheap. Save your money for a decent bike frame better yet,buy a used bike or bike frame. Take someone with you. 4 eyes are better than 2 good luck.


----------



## .je

jnichols said:


> The first is the head tube, showing some ridges in the carbon on the inside. I'm not too worried about that, but hopefully someone can confirm if it's a non-issue.


If you have a look at this engineer's cut up frame analyses (referenced on this board many times), you'll see that that kind of wrinkling is very common.
Luescher Teknik


----------



## aske

jnichols said:


> Just got an FM286 frameset from Seraph! Can anyone provide me some insight about the photos below? These are the only flaws I've seen so far.
> 
> The first is the head tube, showing some ridges in the carbon on the inside. I'm not too worried about that, but hopefully someone can confirm if it's a non-issue.
> 
> Second one is one of the cable routing holes. It looks like it was just punched in roughly and no grommet was installed. Anyone know what I can or should do about that. I'm sure I can find a grommet somewhere, but what about that strange and terrible looking hole?
> 
> View attachment 322666
> View attachment 322667


This is absolutely normal. The drilling could of course have been done a bit more pretty, but it's a normal procedure across most (branded) carbon frames. The head tube internals are identical to many big branded frames. Nothing to be worried about at all.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## 92gli

Tommyroad1 said:


> Here is my nightmare with chinese carbon wheels.


This thread is for frames.

Your story about an oval hub makes no sense. But maybe if you post about this in the proper forum (wheels and tires) with some photos or a video someone can make sense of it.


----------



## tthome

This is my second Tideace frame that I just ordered in glossy orange, but I'm curious, is this a clone of another brand? I like the styling of the rear seat stay, reminds me of giant a little bit but other areas remind me of other models as well. Anybody have any guru input that could help? My first Tideace was the Ridley Noah style that I spray painted purple keiren from www.spray.bike paints, rides great and tracks likes its on rails. Thanks,


----------



## [email protected]

After the R-051 I got a second frame from Velobuild. Got some issues building it up:
- Flatmount brakes weren't straight, they were painted over :cryin: (messing about with some sandpaper and a lor of patience, I think I got sorted now)
- Seatpost slips (again, the R-051 had the same problem), some hairspray seems to have done the thrick)

Everything else went smooth.
First ride is planned for this week, hopefully no extra problems will appear.

Some pics:

































































































































For now it rides on 700c wheels (DT-Swiss 350 hubs, wide DT-Swiss rims) I laced myself. Still thinking about a 650B wheelset with mountainbike tires for winter.


----------



## Ant2022

Hi everyone! I'm currently tempted getting the VB-R-010 frame from Velobuild new aero asymmetrical carbon fiber road frame but I'm wondering if anyone had any comments about it? Or even someone who gets it? 
Have a nice day 
Best regards


----------



## thesmokingman

jnichols said:


> The first is the head tube, showing some ridges in the carbon on the inside. I'm not too worried about that, but hopefully someone can confirm if it's a non-issue.
> 
> View attachment 322666


That is normal. What you are seeing that looks like layers of fabric is not actually fabric but resin flashing from the inflatable bladder process. In other words you can ignore it.

[video]https://youtu.be/7MT1GKrjngU?t=96[/video]


----------



## aclinjury

tthome said:


> This is my second Tideace frame that I just ordered in glossy orange, *but I'm curious, is this a clone of another brand?* I like the styling of the rear seat stay, reminds me of giant a little bit but other areas remind me of other models as well. Anybody have any guru input that could help? My first Tideace was the Ridley Noah style that I spray painted purple keiren from www.spray.bike paints, rides great and tracks likes its on rails. Thanks,
> View attachment 322692


ugh, almost all of these no-name chinese frames are made from one of the (stolen) molds from a big make. For the chinese to offer you at el cheapo prices, you can rest assured that no R&D and probably no QA have gone into these frames. That means, they have to steal molds that were discarded. And stealing intellectual properties is a rampant thing over there.


----------



## thesmokingman

aclinjury said:


> ugh, almost all of these no-name chinese frames are made from one of the (stolen) molds from a big make. For the chinese to offer you at el cheapo prices, you can rest assured that no R&D and probably no QA have gone into these frames. That means, they have to steal molds that were discarded. And stealing intellectual properties is a rampant thing over there.


The cost of carbon is not in the molds nor the designs, its the labor. Carbon fiber is labor intensive, carbon 101. That said Shenzen is where the world goes to get designs rapid prototyped. It's the only place in the world where a company can bring an idea from drawing to prototype in less than a week, where it would take months to years in America. If you think they are clueless you are the one with no clue. Clearly you don't like the idea of IP as a commodity, then so be it. The international brands are going to Shenzen for their factories and labor for a reason. At this point, most of the major factories in Shenzen are damn good at what they do. Hell, they've made millions of carbon frames for all those poor brands that can't or won't make their own.


----------



## aske

thesmokingman said:


> The cost of carbon is not in the molds nor the designs, its the labor. Carbon fiber is labor intensive, carbon 101. That said Shenzen is where the world goes to get designs rapid prototyped. It's the only place in the world where a company can bring an idea from drawing to prototype in less than a week, where it would take months to years in America. If you think they are clueless you are the one with no clue. Clearly you don't like the idea of IP as a commodity, then so be it. The international brands are going to Shenzen for their factories and labor for a reason. At this point, most of the major factories in Shenzen are damn good at what they do. Hell, they've made millions of carbon frames for all those poor brands that can't or won't make their own.


Totally agree. Dig a bit into the bicycle industry and see how much the brands are actually doing themselves and how much the Asian manufacturers/designers/engineers are doing. Fx the layup schedule is 95% of the time decided by the manufacturer. This is more or less automated by software and target unit cost. 
And as consumers we really have no idea whether a design was made in house or purchased from an Asian manufacturer/engineering company. We are just left with the brand marketing material 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## bvber

aclinjury said:


> And stealing intellectual properties is a rampant thing over there.


It has been for decades. I'll bet the computer and parts you typed your post with was assembled in China.


----------



## 92gli

aclinjury said:


> ugh, almost all of these no-name chinese frames are made from one of the (stolen) molds from a big make. For the chinese to offer you at el cheapo prices, you can rest assured that no R&D and probably no QA have gone into these frames. That means, they have to steal molds that were discarded. And stealing intellectual properties is a rampant thing over there.


But but but... Didn't you just say this in another thread just over a month ago?



aclinjury said:


> I used to be very anti-chinese frames. But lately, I'm thinking like you are. The perpetual "chinese ebay frame" thread definitely has me more and more convinced that chinese frames are perhaps the better alternatives


----------



## aclinjury

92gli said:


> But but but... Didn't you just say this in another thread just over a month ago?


I did, so? Just because I say i might buy a chinese frame doesn't mean that they have much R&D into them. Am I not allowed to have 2 mutually exclusive thoughts? It's called abstraction.


----------



## 92gli

Back on topic for those of us that actually own and ride these frames. 

Thanks to constant rain I've cut down on the mountain biking a lot this spring. So I've already hit 1,000 miles on the FM079F. I really love it. Comfortable, agile, fast.


----------



## chrisbottles

92gli said:


> Back on topic for those of us that actually own and ride these frames.
> 
> Thanks to constant rain I've cut down on the mountain biking a lot this spring. So I've already hit 1,000 miles on the FM079F. I really love it. Comfortable, agile, fast.


What do you think the widest tire would be on the FM079?


----------



## 92gli

chrisbottles said:


> What do you think the widest tire would be on the FM079?


Not sure. It has 25s in the pic. I have new 28s I'll install soon, no doubt in my mind that they'll fit fine. I think 30s will fit but I can't guarantee it. I'll post clearance pics when I put the 28s on. Fork has tons of room, chainstays are a little tighter. 

A riding buddy has a domane with 32s. Next time I ride with her I'll see if she'll let me swap the wheels so I can check.


----------



## ruckus

Thanks for back on topic by people who are actually interested, own and use these frames.

Great looking build, FM079F looks amazing.



92gli said:


> Back on topic for those of us that actually own and ride these frames.
> 
> Thanks to constant rain I've cut down on the mountain biking a lot this spring. So I've already hit 1,000 miles on the FM079F. I really love it. Comfortable, agile, fast.
> View attachment 322920


----------



## ruckus

Curious which frame you went with. If you still need suggestion, just saw another from from WorksWell might suit your needs. 

WorksWell WCB-R-147. Looks similar to a Flyxii 322 to me, but more modern, and better made.
WCB-R-147-workswellbikes



musicmaster said:


> Hi All,
> 
> So... 6.5 years and thousands of miles later, my FR301 Flyxii frame is toast.
> 
> RD hanger broke off (my fault because I noticed a wrinkle in it, but was too lazy to replace at the time) breaking 2 spokes and trashing one of the rear stays.
> 
> Looking for a replacement frame now. I'm in Denver, so lots of hilly riding, plus I throw aero-bars on it for my Triathlons (don't currently see a need for a TT bike in CO).
> 
> Based on an old email, this is what the old frame was:
> 
> FR301
> TT 540
> ST 52
> HT 140
> HTA 72.5
> STA 73.5
> WB 977
> 
> By the looks, it seems that FLX-FR-322 might be close, and a really good price ($350). Anything else that'd be worth looking into? The 52CM FR301 I currently have felt like a hair too long - I ended up putting a 65CM stem on it, but I'm not sure if going down to the 50 with a longer stem is a good idea or not, especially with a shorter wheelbase and going 40+ down CO mountain roads.
> 
> View attachment 322331
> 
> View attachment 322332


----------



## JimPacNW

Hey guys, my first post here, I'm a regular on one of the mtb forums so someone might recognize me, - I ride dirt 90% of the time, but road too mostly in warmer weather. I did some road racing back around 90-91 on one of those bonded Specialized small-tube carbon frame Allez bikes, just mtb racing these past few years. 
I'm just about to start swapping mtb parts over to a BXT frame for my kids mtb upgrade, it looks quite good, I see that BXT does a bunch of road frames too. 
I was shopping to build up a road bike for my kid with a DA7800 group I have sitting around, but found a decent whole bike for cheap, -but I'm still having fun looking at chinese carbon options. 

A couple of quick Qs for your comments:

It looks like bigger frames 60cm+ (I prefer 61) are much less common, nearly limited to Og-Evkin, and Muovasi from Australia, the Muovasi is under $300 even from Australia, very tempting since I've got all the other parts, - if not for my Scott Foil 20 I'm currently super happy with I'd be looking harder. It is really fun to look at the other options, anything I'm missing in the bigger sizes like 61?

Forks; it seems that there is still a lot of fear that the 'cheap chinese' forks might not be reliable, - I put a carbon Toseek on my daughters 26er (she's 65 pounds) and I've ridden it around, it seems really solid. My bike shop guy still recommends getting a Kinesis, which are not terribly expensive, but he has not seen a lot of modern Chinese carbon.
Are we at a point where the bigger chinese builders produce forks that can be trusted? I suspect they can, I read a lot about fear but few recent actual failures, all failures I've read about are from a few years ago or more. I think back to that bonded aluminum fork that came on my '90/91 Spec Allez, and if I survived that I would likely be ok with most any modern Chinese carbon fork.


----------



## tthome

Just finished build of solid orange tide-ace frameset. Ridden 200 miles. The only thing I don't like is the fact the rear brake cable stops are plastic and that they don't actually accept 5mm cable stop ferrule in the plastic stops...if you install the rear brake cables directly to the plastic stops without any metal ferrule end than the brake cable is sort of "mashed" or pulled through the plastic cable stop on the frame. So I had to use the jagwire POP brake cable ferrules to sort of get around that. The other option is to simply run that rear brake cable housing all the way through the top tube. This would require me removing and modifying the removable rear brake cable stop to allow the entire housing through the stops...all in all - not a deal breaker but just an annoyance.
View attachment 323100


on to the next fun build...I'm building this frame up in purple...anyone know what frameset this is similar to? To me this looks like a Giant frameset. I ordered mine in purple.


----------



## toolong

Hi Guys,
I need some advice. I built up a CS-092-SL for a friend. She loved it. It's been 2 years. She let her friend on it and the fork snapped from guy trying to do an instant stop at ~20mph.
Pictures are here https://photos.app.goo.gl/GcFit25CPrBSGjKNA (sorry I can't get the inline uploader to work)
This looks like a safety-critical defect.

This was from Peter Xu at carbonspeed. The bike is just ~2months of the 2 year frame warranty. Do you think he'll honor the warranty? Anyone else had disc forks failing under normal use? I'm a bit scared to get a replacement for my friend. Hoping this was a freak defective fork..and the rest are better..bit sketched out that it cracked near the internal cable route point


----------



## DaveT

toolong said:


> Hi Guys,
> I need some advice. I built up a CS-092-SL for a friend. She loved it. It's been 2 years. She let her friend on it and the fork snapped from guy trying to do an instant stop at ~20mph.
> Pictures are here https://photos.app.goo.gl/GcFit25CPrBSGjKNA (sorry I can't get the inline uploader to work)
> This looks like a safety-critical defect.
> 
> This was from Peter Xu at carbonspeed. The bike is just ~2months of the 2 year frame warranty. Do you think he'll honor the warranty? Anyone else had disc forks failing under normal use? I'm a bit scared to get a replacement for my friend. Hoping this was a freak defective fork..and the rest are better..bit sketched out that it cracked near the internal cable route point


That is a bad design/manufactured piece of equipment and if it’s a standard fork it’s extremely dangerous.


----------



## aske

DaveT said:


> That is a bad design/manufactured piece of equipment and if it’s a standard fork it’s extremely dangerous.


Agree. Sometimes they take a rim brake design and just add disc mounts and don't take the change of forces into account. This could look like one of those cases. Looks like it's not reinforced to take the load from the disc brakes. Could also just be a bad sample, but you won't find out until another one breaks on you 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## Finx

I don't know how anyone could feel comfortable riding that bike with a replacement fork of the same origin.

To my mind, that entire bike is an ornament.


----------



## JK-

Has anyone here built the following frame:

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32842182249.html

Is it only di2 compatible or also for mechanical groupset? BB area looks bit weird..









...Link edited...


----------



## fmendes

JK- said:


> Has anyone here built the following frame:
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/chBgv8SG
> 
> Is it only di2 compatible or also for mechanical groupset? BB area looks bit weird..


From what I saw there are several different variations. I don't know that manufacturer, but the one I usually use asks several questions before shipping me parts. You can send them an email asking how to configure the frame you want to buy.


----------



## fmendes

aske said:


> Agree. Sometimes they take a rim brake design and just add disc mounts and don't take the change of forces into account. This could look like one of those cases. Looks like it's not reinforced to take the load from the disc brakes. Could also just be a bad sample, but you won't find out until another one breaks on you
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


The way the manufacturer deals with this issue may tell a lot. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, my first ICAN fork came with some weird scratches on the tube (finishing of exposed parts was fine). I asked their support if that was normal, and they asked me to send the fork back (as I assume they would inspect to see what went wrong) and sent me a new one. 

Assuming they inspected and improved the design, I'd see no problem in using another part from the same vendor. I'd be more worried if they just sent me another fork and never wanted to see the fork or at least pictures of it.


----------



## ruudus

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/DBCL0...l---matt-grey---shimano-ultegra-6800--105-mix

Anyone know what frame this is? With it being Planet X im assuming it’s an open mould...but can’t figure out what one


----------



## DCash

Found some similar on aliexpress, but that direct mount rear brake is making it hard to find the exact model.


----------



## 92gli

92gli said:


> Not sure. It has 25s in the pic. I have new 28s I'll install soon, no doubt in my mind that they'll fit fine. I think 30s will fit but I can't guarantee it. I'll post clearance pics when I put the 28s on. Fork has tons of room, chainstays are a little tighter.
> 
> A riding buddy has a domane with 32s. Next time I ride with her I'll see if she'll let me swap the wheels so I can check.


Long overdue follow up about the FM079F tire clearance. With 28mm schwalbe pro ones there is only about 3-4mm of clearance on the chainstays and 5mm in the fork. I tried my friend's domane wheels with 32mm bontrager tires this morning and they rubbed the fork and the chainstay.


----------



## Rone69

Hello to all,
I'd like your advices for a new carbon frame, I'm looking for a non-branded/Chinese road frame, the features that interested me are:
- good construction quality
- good ride quality, I'm looking for an all-rounder with good climbing and descendig quality.
- tyres clearance up to 30mm or higher
- direct mount rim brakes
- seat tube angle 73° or 73.5° (in size 54-55) with standard seatpost

So far, I've found only two frames with this specs:
the first one is beautiful, but it's seem like a knoc-koff of the Tarmac SL6, is the "Fasterway Classic" I don't find any info about the frame or about the manufacturer
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.17.5fa6434anLTPz0











the second one, is the Gotobke B40 aka Winspace SLC 2.0, I've found many pics, it is used by some cycling society, some of wich are semi-pro ..












I will appreciate any suggestion you will give to me.
Thank you in advance. 


<svg class="SnapLinksHighlighter" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <rect width="0" height="0"></rect> <!-- Used for easily cloning the properly namespaced rect --> </svg>


<svg class="SnapLinksHighlighter" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <rect width="0" height="0"></rect> <!-- Used for easily cloning the properly namespaced rect --> </svg>


<svg class="SnapLinksHighlighter" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <rect width="0" height="0"></rect> <!-- Used for easily cloning the properly namespaced rect --> </svg>


----------



## akkermans.m

H everybody,

Can someone please help me?!
I’m looking for a Trek Madone SL6 2019 look frame. I have visited Aliepress, Ebay and some chinese wholesales but can’t find such a frame.
Thanks for advance.


----------



## aske

Rone69 said:


> Hello to all,
> I'd like your advices for a new carbon frame, I'm looking for a non-branded/Chinese road frame, the features that interested me are:
> - good construction quality
> - good ride quality, I'm looking for an all-rounder with good climbing and descendig quality.
> - tyres clearance up to 30mm or higher
> - direct mount rim brakes
> - seat tube angle 73° or 73.5° (in size 54-55) with standard seatpost
> 
> So far, I've found only two frames with this specs:
> the first one is beautiful, but it's seem like a knoc-koff of the Tarmac SL6, is the "Fasterway Classic" I don't find any info about the frame or about the manufacturer
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.17.5fa6434anLTPz0
> 
> View attachment 323996
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the second one, is the Gotobke B40 aka Winspace SLC 2.0, I've found many pics, it is used by some cycling society, some of wich are semi-pro ..
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 323998
> 
> 
> 
> I will appreciate any suggestion you will give to me.
> Thank you in advance.
> 
> 
> <svg class="SnapLinksHighlighter" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <rect width="0" height="0"></rect> <!-- Used for easily cloning the properly namespaced rect --> </svg>
> 
> 
> <svg class="SnapLinksHighlighter" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <rect width="0" height="0"></rect> <!-- Used for easily cloning the properly namespaced rect --> </svg>
> 
> 
> <svg class="SnapLinksHighlighter" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <rect width="0" height="0"></rect> <!-- Used for easily cloning the properly namespaced rect --> </svg>


I have not tried any of the frames. But I know that goto is a reputable manufacturer, also producing frames for brands. I am expecting to order one of their disc aero frames soon.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## Rone69

But Gotobike is a trader or a manufacturer?


----------



## aske

Rone69 said:


> But Gotobike is a trader or a manufacturer?


Manufacturer.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## Epic1219

Wondering if anyone here has had any experience with Costelo road frames, specifically the Costelo Speedcoupe aero frame like the one linked below. I have a bunch of spare parts laying around, and would like to build up a cheap aero bike. Are they halfway decent? Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Costelo-Sp...f:g:oCkAAOSwSTpbvvHb:rk:3:pf:1&frcectupt=true


----------



## alexss

*Fm-r09 fmr09 r09*

Just ordered an FM-R09 ( FMR09 R09 ) for a very low price on eBay after a little haggling. Tideace do the same one painted up but I wanted stealth look. £266 with postage included.

Size 56
Matte black
Headset
PF30 to BSA included

Will post a pictures once it arrives and a link to the seller if allowed once I have checked it over properly. Hope not to get to badly stung for tax but will see.

Got an Ironman in July so hoping to save a few minuets upgrading from alloy chunky GC frame to Carbon aero. will thrash it about on the flats for a few weeks before going on any aggressive descents so I know its solid.


----------



## djb321

aske said:


> I have not tried any of the frames. But I know that goto is a reputable manufacturer, also producing frames for brands. I am expecting to order one of their disc aero frames soon.


Seconded. My first Chinese Carbon open mould frame was from Gotobike - the old Ribble Stealth/R782 frameset. It's still going strong and it's served me well.


----------



## Rone69

Finally I bought the Fasterway Classic for €490 shipping and tax included, also included a little set of spare parts.


----------



## jockstick

Have narrowed it down to *Dengfu and Workswell* for my first Chinese carbon frame.


Prices/geometry are near identical, do folks here have a preference between the two? Which one has a better finish?


I'm also concerned about small chips on the matte finish reaching the carbon - *does anyone know what exactly the matte finish is, and if it'd be more protective to have it painted?* There have been some pretty underwhelming Workswell paintjob experiences, so leaning towards Dengfu if I decide to get it painted.


----------



## alexss

Just an update now its been shipped.

Seller is https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/wokecycle

Ordered 24th Oct.

Couple of days later they put a tracking number on eBay that didn't work. They sold me some excuse about moving factory and needing another week before sending.
A week later chased again and they they said they have the frames in stock raw and need 3 days to paint it (matte black) and finally 4 days later it was actually shipped.

Might be worth messaging them first to ask them if you do buy one can they ship within a few days so they don't mess you about when you do order.

At some point the EMS tracking code started working on the parcelforce site.

Day 14 EMS collected from factory
Day 15 Sent to UK
Day 19 Arrived in UK and passed straight to customs
Day 21 Customs charges raised.

So today, day 22 i'm hoping it will arrive at a local parcelforce depot and the customs charges letter will be sent out. If I see that on the tracking page apparently I can ring, find out how much and instead of waiting, pay and get it delivered day 23.




alexss said:


> Just ordered an FM-R09 ( FMR09 R09 ) for a very low price on eBay after a little haggling. Tideace do the same one painted up but I wanted stealth look. £266 with postage included.
> 
> Size 56
> Matte black
> Headset
> PF30 to BSA included
> 
> Will post a pictures once it arrives and a link to the seller if allowed once I have checked it over properly. Hope not to get to badly stung for tax but will see.
> 
> Got an Ironman in July so hoping to save a few minuets upgrading from alloy chunky GC frame to Carbon aero. will thrash it about on the flats for a few weeks before going on any aggressive descents so I know its solid.
> 
> View attachment 324079


----------



## Epic1219

*Is this normal??*

I bought a Costelo Speedcoupe frameset from Ebay from seller "catelorsports":

https://www.ebay.com/i/123334428759?chn=ps&var=423733005367

After receiving the frameset, I found the inside of the steerer tube in this condition. The carbon appears to have delaminated around where the steerer widens from 1 1/8" to 1 1/2". 

I sent the image to the seller and they are telling me that this condition is normal, and there is no concern regarding the quality of the steerer tube. I currently ride a 2014 Fuji Gran Fondo 1.1C which also has a carbon steerer, and it does not appear the same. Is anyone here noticing this condition in their carbon steerer tubes? 

I don't think it is wise for me to use this fork. I've asked the seller for a replacement, but I am getting the runaround.


----------



## alexss

Epic1219 said:


> I bought a Costelo Speedcoupe frameset from Ebay from seller "catelorsports":
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/i/123334428759?chn=ps&var=423733005367
> 
> After receiving the frameset, I found the inside of the steerer tube in this condition. The carbon appears to have delaminated around where the steerer widens from 1 1/8" to 1 1/2".
> 
> I sent the image to the seller and they are telling me that this condition is normal, and there is no concern regarding the quality of the steerer tube. I currently ride a 2014 Fuji Gran Fondo 1.1C which also has a carbon steerer, and it does not appear the same. Is anyone here noticing this condition in their carbon steerer tubes?
> 
> I don't think it is wise for me to use this fork. I've asked the seller for a replacement, but I am getting the runaround.


I could be wrong, from what i have found googling there is a process of expanding a pressurised plastic sleeve to push the carbon out against the mould but I don't know if they use moulds for steerer tubes.

It could be a case of the sleeve failing and not pushing it up agains the mould in the first place rather that it delaminating since it should not have been under any stress as yet.

If no-one else come back to you, you don't feel safe and if you have given the seller a genuine chance to resolve and he wont budge then your last option is to open a "not as described" case on ebay. This could work out very expensive for the seller in terms of loss of sale and return postage and he is likely to change his stance...


----------



## Epic1219

alexss said:


> I could be wrong, from what i have found googling there is a process of expanding a pressurised plastic sleeve to push the carbon out against the mould but I don't know if they use moulds for steerer tubes.
> 
> It could be a case of the sleeve failing and not pushing it up agains the mould in the first place rather that it delaminating since it should not have been under any stress as yet.
> 
> If no-one else come back to you, you don't feel safe and if you have given the seller a genuine chance to resolve and he wont budge then your last option is to open a "not as described" case on ebay. This could work out very expensive for the seller in terms of loss of sale and return postage and he is likely to change his stance...


Thanks Alexss for the insight! Your explanation definitely makes sense. It appears that several layers have separated and are flaking in toward the center of the steerer. 

The seller is still communicating, so hopefully they are able to resolve this without having to open a case on EBay. I’ll keep the thread updated.


----------



## TimberWolfQX

Alex,

I think you might have been hoodwinked by a drop-shipper who doesn't carry any inventory and just orders from the factory and then ships to you. In fact, the ebay profile you mentioned doesn't seem to sell anything anymore.

I'd advise anyone who wants to buy from the Tideace brand to get it from Haidelibikes account. I've been to their factory in Pingshan, China a couple of times and they are a hardworking, trustworthy bunch who really focus on elevating their product quality.

From what I know, most of the frames they have are stored in an unfinished state. Upon ordering, they will apply their finishing techniques (smoothing, paint, clearcoat) before shipping the bike out. This takes about a week (the coats take time to cure). Still, it helps to ask if they have ready stock they can ship out immediately. I'll also feedback to them that this is an area they can improve in.

Cheers
QX



alexss said:


> Just an update now its been shipped.
> 
> Seller is https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/wokecycle
> 
> Ordered 24th Oct.
> 
> Couple of days later they put a tracking number on eBay that didn't work. They sold me some excuse about moving factory and needing another week before sending.
> A week later chased again and they they said they have the frames in stock raw and need 3 days to paint it (matte black) and finally 4 days later it was actually shipped.
> 
> Might be worth messaging them first to ask them if you do buy one can they ship within a few days so they don't mess you about when you do order.
> 
> At some point the EMS tracking code started working on the parcelforce site.
> 
> Day 14 EMS collected from factory
> Day 15 Sent to UK
> Day 19 Arrived in UK and passed straight to customs
> Day 21 Customs charges raised.
> 
> So today, day 22 i'm hoping it will arrive at a local parcelforce depot and the customs charges letter will be sent out. If I see that on the tracking page apparently I can ring, find out how much and instead of waiting, pay and get it delivered day 23.


----------



## Rone69

Fasterway Classic


----------



## alexss

TimberWolfQX said:


> Alex,
> 
> I think you might have been hoodwinked by a drop-shipper who doesn't carry any inventory and just orders from the factory and then ships to you. In fact, the ebay profile you mentioned doesn't seem to sell anything anymore.
> 
> I'd advise anyone who wants to buy from the Tideace brand to get it from Haidelibikes account. I've been to their factory in Pingshan, China a couple of times and they are a hardworking, trustworthy bunch who really focus on elevating their product quality.
> 
> From what I know, most of the frames they have are stored in an unfinished state. Upon ordering, they will apply their finishing techniques (smoothing, paint, clearcoat) before shipping the bike out. This takes about a week (the coats take time to cure). Still, it helps to ask if they have ready stock they can ship out immediately. I'll also feedback to them that this is an area they can improve in.
> 
> Cheers
> QX


Well they had a good history of feedback and no-one else would match a price that low. Perhaps I got them into trouble posting the sellers id here who knows, not fussed as long as it landed eventually.

Day 23 Revised Customs charges raised
Day 23 Released from customs
Day 24 Received at delivery depot
Day 24 Awaiting payment of customs charges
Left it till Monday morning to pay
Day 25 Delivery scheduled
Day 26 Delivered

They posted from ShenZhen City Guangdong Province, marked as gift $87
£12 for Parcelforce charge and £30ish Vat.

Quality is great, few very slight blemishes will post pictures as suchlike soon the only thing they didn't do was included the PF30 to BSA adapter. I asked if it was included when ordering and they said it was. They have replied and will send one apparently but I have ordered a rotor PF30 to BSA adapter anyway, known to be a very tight fit and thread together a bit like prixis so should run creak free if I put it in right first time.


----------



## Rone69

Hi to all,
I'm happy to introduce you my new chinese bike, it's a Fasterway Classic frame, with Ican FL40 wheelset, yesterday I rode the bike for the first time, I'm so happy, the frame is more reactive and more comfortable than my Fondriest R20, the direct mount are an advantage not trascurable .



Frame: 
Fasterway Classic (seatpost included)
https://it.aliexpress.com/item/2018..._expid=1b6cdb5e-6545-4201-ba0d-f5a080291382-1

Wheelset:
Ican FL40 No Logo
https://it.icancycling.com/collecti...m-wide-straight-pull-sapim-cx-ray-spoke-1400g

Groupset:
Ultegra R8000 (direct mount brakes)

Handlebar:
https://it.aliexpress.com/item/free...133.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.39ff4c4dJVIi8g

Stem:
https://it.aliexpress.com/item/Bicy...162.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.39ff4c4dJVIi8g

Bottlecages:
https://it.aliexpress.com/item/FCFB...640.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.39ff4c4dJVIi8g

Saddle:
Selle Italia Superflow lL3

Pedals:
Time X-Pro10

speed cadence sensor:
Sigma R2Duo

Smartphone Mount:
DIY


*Weight 7,0kg* (without bottles and smartphone)

































<svg class="SnapLinksHighlighter" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <!-- Used for easily cloning the properly namespaced rect --> </svg>


----------



## Mambo Dave

Rone69 said:


> ....
> Wheelset:
> Ican FL40 No Logo
> https://it.icancycling.com/collecti...m-wide-straight-pull-sapim-cx-ray-spoke-1400g
> 
> Groupset:
> Ultegra R8000 (direct mount brakes)
> 
> Handlebar:
> https://it.aliexpress.com/item/free...133.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.39ff4c4dJVIi8g
> 
> Stem:
> https://it.aliexpress.com/item/Bicy...162.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.39ff4c4dJVIi8g
> 
> Bottlecages:
> https://it.aliexpress.com/item/FCFB...640.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.39ff4c4dJVIi8g
> 
> Saddle:
> Selle Italia Superflow lL3
> 
> Pedals:
> Time X-Pro10
> 
> speed cadence sensor:
> Sigma R2Duo
> 
> Smartphone Mount:
> DIY


Some of those Ali Express links no longer work.


----------



## Rone69

frame
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...lgo_pvid=4976120e-1c49-4c9f-9041-5f586fe3e94e

handlebar
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/fre...lgo_pvid=2677852c-becb-4651-8473-bad5ad435a4d

stem
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ZNI...lgo_pvid=6831905c-74c6-4a0c-8079-c5944659d37f

bottlecages
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FCF...lgo_pvid=f37afb47-a45d-45de-8578-77c3848ea090


<svg class="SnapLinksHighlighter" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <rect width="0" height="0"></rect> <!-- Used for easily cloning the properly namespaced rect --> </svg>


----------



## Rone69

Today 2nd ride with the new bike, I can confirm all I've writed and I can add that this frame have a good descending quality.







First snow of 18/19 winter

















0 Links

<svg class="SnapLinksHighlighter" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <rect width="0" height="0"></rect> <!-- Used for easily cloning the properly namespaced rect --> </svg>


----------



## alexss

*Fm-r09 fmr09 r09 finished build.*

So I finished the build, was a shame I had to use the old chainset its got millage marks but tough nuts the mrs already has a gun to my head.

The only genuine issue I have is that the seat post is undersized but from reading around this can be a common thing for carbon posts and especially aero shaped posts, even with an excessively tightened wedge.

On the first ride out I had to stop twice and lift it back out. I settled on fixing it buy adding a double height and double layer of black PVC insulation tape around the clamp area for the wedge to bite into and also a single height single layer around the bottom which only just slid in to prevent back and forward movement inside the frame pivoting from the clamp point so it cant wiggle its-self down.

I ran the cables through the plastic liner as I didn't want rub on the inside of the frame but the plastic cable guide attached to the bottom bracket was positioned in a way that caused a sharp kink so in the end I had to remove the guide and trim it for the rear mech to function nice and smooth.

Only been out on her twice in less than favourable conditions but I can tell you she is very fast. I upgraded from a relatively standard alloy frame with carbon fork which was not much heavier. The aero lines defiantly work wonders over 20mph.


----------



## drdnght

Hi,

I am looking for a new aero style disc frame, but I was wondering f anyone was aware of a frame with hidden cables (i.e. like the newer bikes where the cables go under the handlebars and down the headtube only to reappearing close to the brakes and derailleurs.

Thanks


----------



## jlmuncie

Looking at yingbike frames on eBay. Does anyone have feedback on them? Did a search here but didn’t find anything.


----------



## jockstick

Did you weigh the frame/fork/seatpost? The aliexpress description doesn't give the fork and seatpost weight



Rone69 said:


> Hi to all,
> I'm happy to introduce you my new chinese bike, it's a Fasterway Classic frame, with Ican FL40 wheelset, yesterday I rode the bike for the first time, I'm so happy, the frame is more reactive and more comfortable than my Fondriest R20, the direct mount are an advantage not trascurable .
> 
> 
> 
> Frame:
> Fasterway Classic (seatpost included)
> https://it.aliexpress.com/item/2018..._expid=1b6cdb5e-6545-4201-ba0d-f5a080291382-1
> 
> Wheelset:
> Ican FL40 No Logo
> https://it.icancycling.com/collecti...m-wide-straight-pull-sapim-cx-ray-spoke-1400g
> 
> Groupset:
> Ultegra R8000 (direct mount brakes)
> 
> Handlebar:
> https://it.aliexpress.com/item/free...133.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.39ff4c4dJVIi8g
> 
> Stem:
> https://it.aliexpress.com/item/Bicy...162.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.39ff4c4dJVIi8g
> 
> Bottlecages:
> https://it.aliexpress.com/item/FCFB...640.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.39ff4c4dJVIi8g
> 
> Saddle:
> Selle Italia Superflow lL3
> 
> Pedals:
> Time X-Pro10
> 
> speed cadence sensor:
> Sigma R2Duo
> 
> Smartphone Mount:
> DIY
> 
> 
> *Weight 7,0kg* (without bottles and smartphone)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <svg class="SnapLinksHighlighter" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <!-- Used for easily cloning the properly namespaced rect --> </svg>


----------



## Rone69

jockstick said:


> Did you weigh the frame/fork/seatpost? The aliexpress description doesn't give the fork and seatpost weight


Frame 900gr
Fork 375gr (uncut)
Seatpost 186gr

With Ultegra R8000 (mechanical) and Ican FL40 wheels th final weight is 7.0kg without bottles and computer


----------



## DHT

Hi Everyone. New Poster here.

I'm trying to build my first Carbon Disc Frame Road Bike... Don't know if I need AERO or Regular.. I am leaning towards DENGFU. They have only a few disc frames: 

R06 Disc
FM099 
R06 Disc
R12 Disc

The R12 looks too futuristic and not sure I like the 1-1/2" straight steerer tube... and the integrated handlebar... not sure what i'd have to do to get a proper fit... so I like to stay flexible to swap parts, different stems and handlebars if need be.

On the R06, I'm not sure I like the clamp that holds the seat post. Anyone has had issues with that? And I have a feeling the front axle needs a 15mm x 100mm axle... 

I'm not a racer but looks matter to me. Probably I'll go with a matt Black w/Clear coat or maybe Glossy BK with no names. 

I'm 60 Male, 168 cm and 88 Kg. With an inseam of 81 cm... My flexibility is 2 out of 5. 

My current bike is an allroad BIANCI that's alumimum with 105 Disc groupset. I have repaced the knobby 35mm tires with 28mm Conti's... Now it looks a bit weird with all that space around the top of the fork... and it's heavy -- around 23 Lbs.. (I've got a 11-42T Cassette in the back: Deore XT M8000 using a Wolftooth Road Link to fit it).

Anyway, I'm partial to the FM099 or the R02 Disc; but apart for the many reviews I've seen of the non-disc FM098 and R02 version, there is absolutely nothing on the disc versions anywhere to get some comfort.... ANY opinions/help???? Would to see some finished bikes with these frames... anyone knows what brands they are imitating?

I want to build this new bike with a Shimano R8020 Groupset. I've already ordered a Yoeleo C50 (27mm wide version to use it with a 28mm tires) DB Pro wheel set with Sapim CX and DT Swiss 350 Hubs and 28H custom holes. Also 12x142mm back, and 12x100 Front thru axles. I am hoping to use them on my Bianchi and eventually on the new road bike... So I hope the tires will fit the new frame...

Looking forward to hearing from anyone. Thanks. Any other options welcome.


----------



## jockstick

Anyone have experience with "Spcycle" aka "Desal Sports Equipment Co., Ltd."? They seem to sell the same frames as BXT and Tideace at a slightly lower price.


I'm looking at this frame in particular https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Smi...pm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.260.1d973c00xAV3VQ


----------



## Oracle7775

alexss said:


> So I finished the build, was a shame I had to use the old chainset its got millage marks but tough nuts the mrs already has a gun to my head.
> 
> The only genuine issue I have is that the seat post is undersized but from reading around this can be a common thing for carbon posts and especially aero shaped posts, even with an excessively tightened wedge.
> 
> On the first ride out I had to stop twice and lift it back out. I settled on fixing it buy adding a double height and double layer of black PVC insulation tape around the clamp area for the wedge to bite into and also a single height single layer around the bottom which only just slid in to prevent back and forward movement inside the frame pivoting from the clamp point so it cant wiggle its-self down.
> 
> I ran the cables through the plastic liner as I didn't want rub on the inside of the frame but the plastic cable guide attached to the bottom bracket was positioned in a way that caused a sharp kink so in the end I had to remove the guide and trim it for the rear mech to function nice and smooth.
> 
> Only been out on her twice in less than favourable conditions but I can tell you she is very fast. I upgraded from a relatively standard alloy frame with carbon fork which was not much heavier. The aero lines defiantly work wonders over 20mph.


How is the frame holding up? I bought the same one (in glossy black) and am anxiously awaiting a shipping notification.


----------



## .je

I can't get onto the Long Teng website (ltbikes.com). Anyone know what's going on? Chinese New Year has been over for a while now.


----------



## GammaDriver

Has anyone tried the integrated flat-bars commonly found on alibaba, Amazon and ebay?

I'm just talking about the common ones that sometimes have the 'TOSEEK' label on them, perhaps other labels, but also can be found with no label. I found the exact 'TOSEEK' brand bar/stem combo that is listed on Amazon on ebay, and that doesn't have any named brand on the carbon fiber for the ebay offering.

This is for an upright gravel-rider, so I'm really, really not worried about the forces up, down, or tree-smacking. What I am looking to do is take off the overly-heavy-duty/just-plain-heavy stem and bars to lighten the old rig up.

My main concern is the clamp area, being CF, and how well it flexes without breaking to hold the 1 1/8" steerer tube.

View attachment 324825


----------



## BassLake

I ended up refinishing the forks with white enamel. I then wet sanded the whole frame and buffed it out. Looks like new. Now if the snow would melt.....


----------



## Steve B.

BassLake said:


> I ended up refinishing the forks with white enamel. I then wet sanded the whole frame and buffed it out. Looks like new. Now if the snow would melt.....
> View attachment 324915


Purdy. If I was in Texas. I'm not so will just say it looks great.


----------



## TiCoyote

I really want a Giant TCR Advanced Pro or TCR Advanced SL, but I would consider an unbranded knockoff. Is there an Ebay Direct special that's close?


----------



## Carbonsnail

I would try a search on AliExpress you are bound to have much better results there opposed to on Ebay, they have tons on high quality frames to choose from with lots of defferent options, I would also review Youtube "Chinese carbon frame" videos from buyers that routinely buy frames from AliExpress and will tell you what to look for and recommend some of the better vendors. Good luck.


----------



## jkretsch

Just bought an OG-EVKIN carbon stem off of eBay. Took a chance on this unknown brand as there is little to no information or reviews on the web. At $32 for a brand new full carbon stem it's hard to beat the price and it was sold by a retailer in the U.S. I must say I'm impressed. The stem looks almost identical to the Enve carbon stems which are $$$ and it came with titanium bolts. Weight is 115 grams for the 100mm. The stem seems solid and well made. I rode with it the first time yesterday and have no complaints.


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## dndbenson

Can anyone tell me if they recognize this frame as being a copy of another manufacturer? I am looking for an aero disc frame but don't want a knock off copy and dont want full internal routing. Also has anyone dealt with Lightcarbon before?
https://www.lightcarbon.com/lightcarbon-700c-aero-disc-brake-road-frameset_p35.html#Inquiry-go


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## simnorm

I've been following these threads for years. I've been dealing with Alisa at LTBikes and placed an order for a LTK118 with a custom paint job. The XL BSA frame was in stock. I wanted a light frame with a minimum of 600mm stack & 400mm reach, not a whole lot to choose from in that size.

Alisa has been great, very responsive to my questions by email or wechat. She just sent me pics of the frame with a preview of my decals to validate everything. I had been struggling with the design and colors for a couple of days. I've wanted something totally different from my current bike.


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## Rone69

dndbenson said:


> Can anyone tell me if they recognize this frame as being a copy of another manufacturer? I am looking for an aero disc frame but don't want a knock off copy and dont want full internal routing. Also has anyone dealt with Lightcarbon before?
> https://www.lightcarbon.com/lightcarbon-700c-aero-disc-brake-road-frameset_p35.html#Inquiry-go
> View attachment 325125


Take a look to the Ican A9 it's lighter than the Lightcarbon.


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## TiCoyote

Can anyone recommend a carbon drop bar from eBay or AliExpress? I'm thinking under $50, and a conventional shape that I can attach my Element Bolt mount to.


----------



## BikeToCamp




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## JimPacNW

TiCoyote said:


> Can anyone recommend a carbon drop bar from eBay or AliExpress? I'm thinking under $50, and a conventional shape that I can attach my Element Bolt mount to.


I've got about 300-400 miles on BXT carbon drop bars (Ritchey WCS stem). I posted the weight somewhere on this forum when I put them on (components and wrenching I think), under 200g iirc. I showed them to two guys much more experienced than me prior to install, both pulled/twisted on them and didn't notice any excessive flex. 
They have been trouble free, I'm about 180 pounds btw. I think they're still $29 shipped, it took about 2 weeks. 
The only thing that wasn't perfect was that there is a grippier/rougher surface where the levers mount; those spots didn't seem to be right where I wanted my levers, but that's all covered up and doesn't seem to be an issue. I also used the BXT grip tape, but that looks like it's gone up to $10 from $6, - nice tape. 
I'm a regular on the mtbr forum, and one thing I've gathered from comments there is that most carbon bar failures are from over-torquing; I bought one of those 'set' torque keys off amazon for <$20 (the Presta Cycle 4Nm tool), I used carbon assembly paste and 4Nm seems perfectly adequate for road bars in my experience, - I think 6Nm is commonly recommended (I use 3Nm on flat bars for mtb and it's fine on multiple bikes).


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## Carbonsnail

Chinese Carbon Seraph FM 686 frame


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## christoph1980

Hey Guys, my second Hong Fu build ever, and i guess my last! 

7 Years ago i've ordered a very good frame for a good price so i thought, let's build a new one! But i guess something changed in this company! 

First of all the the price are very high compared to my last frame. Ive paid 1.000 US-Dollar for the frame included a customt paint! Ive mailed them my instructions and get and template back! It should be black red gold (german flag)! The result i get at the end was black, orange gold! The paint is way to thick during my build i've pluged a plastic in to hide the holes for the cables and the paint cracked immdiatly in this place. 

The so called plastic-cap cost me again 12 dollars, because the sended the wrong one, but you have to pay to their faults.

last but not least the rear hanger was totaly crooked, i couldnt adjust the hanger and i need the a new one. Thanks god i found a dealer here in the EU.

I've paid the frame on the 16.07.2019, shipping was @ 20.08.2019! A frame which was in stock! 

I dont know what happend in this company, but i think there are better companys for a better value to buy in future. 

But the frame is solid and light! 

Guys enjoy the pics! 

Total weight with Spinnergys is 6.89 kg

total weight with my tune wheels is 6.60 kg

Best regards Chris


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## jony5

TOSEEK Classic Full Carbon Fibre 
I bought those through amazon because I was scared, you know stuff from China may get broken. It was middle of september when I ride them for the first time and I love it. The top edge (where the bowdens come out) fit perfect for my palms... Tested like 20 rides at the end of season, still in one peace


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## danrel1986

Hello from Greece. Im interesting about carbon road disc brake frame and as I did a search here I found tantancycling.com and velobuild that likes me. But I want to ask if anyone has feedback about other store on aliexpress. Does anyone knows something about Pawcarbon bike store, taiwan carbon bike store and Rocking Cycling store. The last two stores gave me link with Password to get in. The link is 

www.yohobike.com

The truth is that this site has everything that we want to see to buy a bike but I don't know how safe is. I would appreciate if anyone knows something. Thanks a lot.


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## aclinjury

HongFu R8 frameset from UAM Official store on Aliexpress.
This frame looks damn nice.
Does anyone have any opinion on this frame and/or the seller?

Price is not exactly cheap for a chinese frame either at $951 shipped to USA and not including potential tariffs yet.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_3,searchweb201603_53


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## bvber

There were some posts about it on this forum a few years ago when it came out because it looks so much like Canyon Aeroad frame. Then it dropped off the radar for some reason.


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## aclinjury

bvber said:


> There were some posts about it on this forum a few years ago when it came out because it looks so much like Canyon Aeroad frame. Then it dropped off the radar for some reason.


I asked Hongfu, it only accepts 23c tires max. Maybe that's why!


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## xcbarny

Clamp for carbon rail saddle:

I have just purchased a frame from TanTan cycling, which came with a carbon seat post. This has a clamp similar to a Bontrager which is typical for a lot of Chinese carbon posts, with round hole running through the top of the post, which the clamp sits it.

I need to change this clamp to one which can hold oval carbon rails.
Has anyone been able to find one of these? Tan Tan can't supply me one.
Thanks.


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## \"none\"

Is this thread going to get a version 8.0 for year 2020?


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## .je

> I need to change this clamp to one which can hold oval carbon rails.
> Has anyone been able to find one of these?


In case you haven't found one yet, I found one here that's OK (click to 'seatposts')
http://www.flyxii.com/PRODUCTS1?product_category=74&brd=1

Or see if this helps 
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/gr...73.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.4c333057aKKz8E/


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## \"none\"

I have built a few bikes out of Chinese carbon frames since 2016, some for myself, some sold to fellow experienced riders that I've ridden together for years.
None of us are currently racing or training for races, only regular group rides 3-4 times a week, all of us have multiple road bikes that we have ridden for multiple years and well aware of the general limitations and quality of Chinese carbon frames purchased from the internet.

Internal cable routing are always PITA, especially in tight spaces between brake levers & stem, frame routing are usually easier since there is more room to work with.

My first Chinese carbon frame build was in 2016, frame purchased on eBay with rebates it cost me less than $300 for the frame/fork/seatpost/BB/headset to be shipped to me. However the seller shipped me the wrong size frame and after 2 months of back & forth on eBay, I was refunded the purchase price by eBay and get to keep the frame.
I completed the build with misc. parts I have avail. in my basement, complete bike probably less than $1200.








I put about 5-600 miles on it and determined that it was too small for my liking and sold it to a neighbor of mine who has been riding with me on this bike, he has put over 4k miles on the bike since 2017. The usual complaint is the seatpost slipping and front derailleur mount slipping... beyond that the shifting noise with hollow carbon frame, tends to amplify.

My second build was little easier, but cable routing through the handlebar still required much patience.

















Completed bike was a very nice ride, comfortable yet efficient, I have put about 3k miles on it since 2018.
Good enough for under $2k build.
Similar problems as the previous bike, seatpost slippage & front derailleur slippage.









My third was the replacement frame from the original seller of the wrong sized frame that was shipped to me.
I received it late in the season 2018, so I have not spent much time working on it, but recently I've put more effort into finishing it.








As before, cable routing through the handlebar still PITA even with much practice.









Also working on a Chinese TT carbon bike.. bought in 2018.. trying to decide whether to go 1x10 or double.


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## \"none\"

Aero & cheap, 17.4 lb. complete bike with test ride pedals.


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## \"none\"

Some progress on my Chinese TT bike, 
brakes are connected: 

















Still trying to figure out how to put the front derailleur shifter near front brake lever, 
hope to do something similar to this:


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## \"none\"

Had a first test ride on the cheap Chinese TT bike build with wireless Xshifter.
Remote wireless shifting works great, I really wanted to fit the cable pull unit inside the frame, but there isn't a large enough opening on the frame to insert the unit into the frame.
Still finishing up with some adjustments to make to get it dialed in for handlebar, seat positions. Maybe get a longer test ride tomorrow.


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## duriel

I hope it's not windy! 
That bike has a pretty big surface area for the frame, at what point does the amount of surface area start detracting from the aero shape? If your not there it looks like its close, but I'm not an aero expert.


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## \"none\"

Wind affects on bike handling applies to any aero TT bike with deep aero wheels.

It's how much a riders has practice in windy conditions on particular bike that determines how much the affects would influence the efficiency of the bike during a particular ride. 
The more practice you have, likely you fair better in demanding conditions.


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## B12B12

I have not cycled for about 8 years - and am very much of of the game 
... but the last frame I bought I never built up and has been sitting there for years and its Mint
It is a CyclingYong EPS frame ; with seat post ; headset and saddle 
I have no use for it so wondering if anyone is interested ?
I have not posted pics [its not an unpainted frame] I don't know it we are allowed to sell something like this on here these days ...
seat post is about 52/53 cm top to centre of BB 
Anyone ?


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## \"none\"

You'll get better response with pictures..


----------



## Black37

What do you all think the closest open mold frame to this is for gravel/CX? I love the lines on this frame in the grey/beige:
https://www.novebikes.com/products/nove-race-disc


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## \"none\"

Something like this? 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/373096928292


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## B12B12

*Chinese Colnago EPS Style FrameSet*

Hi there ; I am no sure if I can post on here. Please let me know and I will delete it if its not acceptable, but having a garage clear out ; this is unused and been sitting there for several years - its in perfect condition and I would like to sell it ?
Come with seat post saddle and head set


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## Coolhand

B12B12 said:


> Hi there ; I am no sure if I can post on here. Please let me know and I will delete it if its not acceptable, but having a garage clear out ; this is unused and been sitting there for several years - its in perfect condition and I would like to sell it ?
> Come with seat post saddle and head set
> View attachment 328249
> 
> View attachment 328247


Try the free classifieds here as well.


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## al2bd1

Just saw a video of the new tarmac slc 7, if anybody is able to pinpoint it in Ali express, they are welcome, the new aero additions is going to make it a very popular model I bet.


----------



## leonofbristol

Does anyone know of a frame that will take 3wmm tyres and mudguards? Not looking for a gravel frame with loads of clearance, just a proper "winter" road bike. Something similar in "character" to the Cervelo Caledonia?


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## 92gli

Anyone have a GR029 yet? Geometry looks more road oriented than gravel, but supposedly it will take up to 42mm tires. I've been riding an FM079 for 2 years and I love it, but 28mm is the tire max (30 might be possible but the fork is tight). I'd like to be able to run 32s or 35s.


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## 92gli

leonofbristol said:


> Does anyone know of a frame that will take 3wmm tyres and mudguards? Not looking for a gravel frame with loads of clearance, just a proper "winter" road bike. Something similar in "character" to the Cervelo Caledonia?


See my comment above and search GR029 on ebay. I'm not sure if it will take mudguards but there is a hole in the fork and a bridge on the seatstays - looks like it might.


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## turbogrover

Freshly repainted my Dengfu ISP FM028 that I purchased back in winter 2010. Still rides great, and the new ultegra 11spd drivetrain is definitely an upgrade from the 2010 Campy Chorus 10spd it replaced. Hand built Light bicycles 50mm carbon wheelset with Dati hubs.


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## 00Garza

turbogrover said:


> Freshly repainted my Dengfu ISP FM028 that I purchased back in winter 2010. Still rides great, and the new ultegra 11spd drivetrain is definitely an upgrade from the 2010 Campy Chorus 10spd it replaced. Hand built Light bicycles 50mm carbon wheelset with Dati hubs.
> View attachment 478813
> 
> View attachment 478814
> 
> View attachment 478815
> 
> View attachment 478816





turbogrover said:


> Freshly repainted my Dengfu ISP FM028 that I purchased back in winter 2010. Still rides great, and the new ultegra 11spd drivetrain is definitely an upgrade from the 2010 Campy Chorus 10spd it replaced. Hand built Light bicycles 50mm carbon wheelset with Dati hubs.
> View attachment 478813
> 
> View attachment 478814
> 
> View attachment 478815
> 
> View attachment 478816


That looks fantastic!!!
Chinese bars as well I assume? Great to see a chinese frame holding after a decade. Any rough estimate on mileage?


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## turbogrover

00Garza said:


> That looks fantastic!!!
> Chinese bars as well I assume? Great to see a chinese frame holding after a decade. Any rough estimate on mileage?


Thanks! It looks awesome in person too. My inspiration for the paint job was the Astana pro team bikes. Yes Chinese integrated bars. It's very light, and fits me like it was custom made. Approximately 18,000-20,000 miles on it so far.
I can't find any pics when it was first built, but it was all white, and was called the "Fishbike" because I had it covered in multicolored koi decals.


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## GammaDriver

turbogrover said:


> Freshly repainted my Dengfu ISP FM028 that I purchased back in winter 2010. Still rides great, and the new ultegra 11spd drivetrain is definitely an upgrade from the 2010 Campy Chorus 10spd it replaced. Hand built Light bicycles 50mm carbon wheelset with Dati hubs.
> View attachment 478813
> 
> View attachment 478814
> 
> View attachment 478815
> 
> View attachment 478816


Wow!


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

Hello hello! Is anyone still here? Last posted about 8 years ago... Has Chinese unbranded carbon components manufacturing improved? Any links for forks, handlebars, stems or seatposts?


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## JimPacNW

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> Hello hello! Is anyone still here? Last posted about 8 years ago... Has Chinese unbranded carbon components manufacturing improved? Any links for forks, handlebars, stems or seatposts?


 I've got BXT drop bars and seatposts on a couple of bikes with no issues (I think they might be the same as Tideace, the seatposts look identical). I've also got $22-ish carbon rail saddles on my 3 best bikes (for about 2 years now), a friend broke one of them on the first mtb race on it, but his seatpost clamp may have been more 'pinchy' than mine, and I'm careful to not overtorque. For stems, it's hard to beat the Kalloy Uno for price and weight, no need to shop unbranded stems. Link to the seats I like below (158g on my scale). 
full carbon fiber bow EVO sponge mtb road bike Seat cushion bicycle saddle | eBay


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## cloudbuster

Hi,

Anyone know of a more endurance Chinese frame with internal routing and disc brakes?

It seem all of them are with a race geometry.

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## turbogrover

I added some new goodies to my bike!
A Wahoo Elemnt Bolt GPS, Stages power meter, 28c Conti tires, and some alloy bottle cage bolts. This blue paint just radiates in the sunlight.


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## Tswifty

turbogrover said:


> View attachment 479584
> 
> I added some new goodies to my bike!
> A Wahoo Elemnt Bolt GPS, Stages power meter, 28c Conti tires, and some alloy bottle cage bolts. This blue paint just radiates in the sunlight.


Long time lurker first time posting in awhile.

I love your bars i was curious which vendor you bought them from?

I've been looking at these " https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32836345115.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.225c3c00SdFV0a&mp=1 "

But I'm looking for recommendations.


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## jkc

My AliExpress Special. Very responsive and could be a lot lighter. Except for the slightly longer throw for the front, I'm liking the Sensah Empire Pro. Haven't verify the accuracy of the Sigeyi PM but it feels about right.


----------



## SL06

*ICAN cycling RD01 road/gravel frame review + BD35 wheel set*











Resumé: Satisfied with the bike and wheels but not with the customer service.

This is my 3 Chinese carbon frame build, first time from ICAN. This build is for a lady friend.

After several exchanges on frame and wheel set, I decide to buy the RD01 frame and BD35 wheelset. The salesman ask me twice to send the money directly to their PayPal account, based on pricing in is E-mail. I had to ask them 3 times for a proper Paypal invoice, essential for Paypal assurance and warranty.

Shipping from China to Canada took about 2 week - extremely fast. Pricing was reasonable.

Frame weight Frame - size 50 : 1220g Fork : 520g Seatpost : 248g advertised Frame:1120g; Fork:480g; Seatpost: 260g - size not specified) -» about 140g heavier for the frame + fork.

BD35 wheel : Front: 730g Rear: 889g no rim tape (advertized :Front: 706+-10g Rear: 857+-10g) -» 56 g differenc
Warranty : 2 years

Frame was not the lightest but was on sale with a good discount.

Wheels looks nice and well build. Spoke holes are offset and the only issue was that the rim tape had difficulty to cover. Tubeless tape would be a better option. Tire were very difficult to mount by hand on these tubeless ready rim.

Frame look fine but moulding marks were apparent at several places, mainly on the top tube - seems purely cosmetic.

With budget limitation, the bike was assembled with Shimano 105 mechanical shifting and brake + A8000 IIIPro brake ( mechanically activated hydraulic brakes). Bough as a kit on Aliexpress. Front rotor 140 mm was immediately changed to 160 mm. 

Continental Gatorskin 25c front and 28c rear mainly for the road but also smooth gravel road. As expected, mounted tires were 2-3mm larger than usual because of the wide rim width.

Assembly was not difficult except for the following:

I had ordered the frame with 1 front derailleur hanger, and 2 rear one but only 1 of the 2 rear derailleur hangers was sent, no front. The headset that I had ordered was also missing.

The rear true axle bolt that came with the frame was the wrong size, 17 mm instead of 19 mm. It could not be attached to the frame with the lock nut. The rear frame cable stop insert that goes to the rear derailleur at the back of the frame was missing.
I have tried to get ICAN to send me the missing parts and discussions was laborious. They prefer reimburse me for the missing parts. I had to order replacements on Aliexpress. I fabricate the rear cable stop frame insert myself, I could not find one anywhere.

The frame size 50 (small) was a bit big for the 5'8" women (short arm long torso). Handlebar was fit with a 7 cm stem. 

Riding quality of the bike is good. Steering was responsive, maybe a touch too much.

The seatpost design is solid but it’s impossible to precisely adjust the saddle tilt. It consists of a double cone system with grooves, link by a bolt. Small set screws are used to help tight the vertically clamp on the rail on each side. I suppose that the same clamp would fit oval or round rail. The issue with that system is that the saddle tilt change by about 2 degrees from one groove to the other, not precise enough. Since the seatpost is an aero shape, a replacement from another company might be impossible to find.










Braking was good once the brake pad as bedded. The 160 mm front rotor is recommended.

Conclusion: the bike ride well (initial impressions only, my friend has ridden probable 400 km on it) but would look somewhere else because of poor customer service (poor communication + missing parts). Getting replacement parts from them might be an issue.


----------



## turbogrover

Tswifty said:


> Long time lurker first time posting in awhile.
> 
> I love your bars i was curious which vendor you bought them from?
> 
> I've been looking at these " 108.0US $ 28% OFF|2018design!FASTERWAY Full black inc carbon Fiber Road Bicycle Integrated handlebar with stem carbon Road handlebar for 28.6mm|integrated handlebar|handlebar with stemfull carbon fiber - AliExpress "
> 
> But I'm looking for recommendations.


I got the integrated bar and stem from an Ebay listing. I see several different vendors there selling the same model. I bought 2 of them with different length stems.


----------



## Tswifty

I finally did it. I finally bought another Chinese TT bike this time the Hongfu FM109 also known as the TM6. I got it in disc so i wouldnt have to change all my rims back to rim brake.
I was just curious how many people have bought from hongfu lately and or the TM6? Any reviews?


----------



## Bremerradkurier

My 2018 vintage OG Evkin upgraydded with Ultegra 11 spd. Di2, Hunt Kinlin XR31 rim alloy wheels and Canyon format integrated handlebar. Also modded a Wheels Manufacturing direct mount hanger to fit the frame. Weight is 7.45kg as shown.


----------



## Brett89h

GhostDragon said:


> Hi, I am hoping some one on here can help me.
> 
> I have a Miracle MC053 also known as the Miracle Foil as it was based on the Scott Foil.
> 
> The issue I have is that it is missing the seat post clamp wedge system.
> 
> I am having difficulty sourcing the piece from China,
> 
> I was wondering if any one is willing to sell the seat post clamp system from their frame or if not if they would be willing to sell the whole frame with the clamp system?
> 
> Below are pictures of my frame with the missing clamp, the last two pictures are some one else's picture of the pieces I am missing.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> View attachment 313914
> View attachment 313915
> View attachment 313916
> View attachment 313917


Good evening Ghost Dragon,

This is probably an extremely long shot, but did you ever manage to get a replacement seat post wedge for the bike.

I have a similar issue and could do with some help locating one. 

If you could let me know that would be really appreciated.

Thankyou


----------



## m68k

Hello everyone, first time posting! I am currently waiting for my dengfu FM098 (rim brake) to arrive, and I was wondering if anybody runs 28c tires on this frame. The website states a max tire width of 25c for the rim brake version, and 32c for the disc brake version. How accurate are these specs? Thanks in advance


----------



## carla_rogers

m68k said:


> Hello everyone, first time posting! I am currently waiting for my dengfu FM098 (rim brake) to arrive, and I was wondering if anybody runs 28c tires on this frame. The website states a max tire width of 25c for the rim brake version, and 32c for the disc brake version. How accurate are these specs? Thanks in advance


You want to know how accurate those website statements are, regarding the tire sizes that fit? I know the answer to this. The answer is "Freaking."

Those max wheel sizes are freaking accurate. You might have a few hundredths of an inch give or take. Other than that, the chances of a tire marked more than 25mm width on that frame retup for rim breaks, reminds me of my childhood friends, Slim and None.

If it was your local anne-t-fahh guild that put your bike together, that might be different, also not recommended.

UPON FURTHER REVIEW
upton futher review

Here is what you can do. Put fatter tires than the sizes told to you by a relevant website. It will protect your bike form theft to an extent. The reason is the wheels ill not be rolling too good in that scenario.

How you make use of this information is entirely and totally 100% up to you and you alone unless you were under the age of 18.


----------

