# Motobecane Titanium frames



## psykorunr

Does anyone know which company in Asia actually designs and manufactures the Titanium frames for Motobecane? I ordered one recently and am just curious about where it is actually built.

Thanks :cornut:


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## doctorspokes

*I believe they are made in Taiwan*

I believe they are made in Taiwan. And i believe they are made specifically for Motobecane. I would really like to know how you like the frame since I am thinking of purchasing one myself. Also if anyone has one of their titanium frames...how well is it made. It looks like a great deal.


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## psykorunr

doctorspokes said:


> I believe they are made in Taiwan. And i believe they are made specifically for Motobecane. I would really like to know how you like the frame since I am thinking of purchasing one myself. Also if anyone has one of their titanium frames...how well is it made. It looks like a great deal.


I am curious about which other bike names may be "cousins" to Motobecanes. Cousins meaning bikes that are built by the same factory in Asia but given a different name/plate when sent to the US. Giant is the largest company that makes frames for other brands including Trek, Specialized, Schwinn, and Bianchi. I have read that Motobecane frames MAY be made by Kinesis (makes Raleigh), Martec (makes Kestrel and Orbea), or even possibly Giant but I have yet to see any solid info.

I have yet to receive my Ti bike. Motobecane is currently taking advance orders and will not ship until the end of this month. Once I give the bike a whirl, Ill share my thoughts. :idea:


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## andresmuro

I'd bet that they are made in china, since a lot of Ti frames are chinese, inexpensive and quite good. I, got one custom made Ti frame a while back by a distributor that does not exist anymore. 

The motobecanes look very similar to the Tomasso Ti frames that were distrubuted by another importer. 

If you so a search of china and titanium frames you will find lots of factories that sell them. Same for Taiwan. However, the Taiwanese are making their stuff in china too. 

If you want an inexpensive ti frame, always consider Habaneros sold by Mike Hickey. http://www.habcycles.com/



doctorspokes said:


> I believe they are made in Taiwan. And i believe they are made specifically for Motobecane. I would really like to know how you like the frame since I am thinking of purchasing one myself. Also if anyone has one of their titanium frames...how well is it made. It looks like a great deal.


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## dismal

Well, most of the aluminum is Kinesis, since it says so on the frame. There was a post somewhere in this subform where Mike mentioned what company makes the BK steel and ti bikes... can't seem to find it now.


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## bikesdirect

andresmuro said:


> I'd bet that they are made in china, since a lot of Ti frames are chinese, inexpensive and quite good. I, got one custom made Ti frame a while back by a distributor that does not exist anymore.
> 
> The motobecanes look very similar to the Tomasso Ti frames that were distrubuted by another importer.
> 
> If you so a search of china and titanium frames you will find lots of factories that sell them. Same for Taiwan. However, the Taiwanese are making their stuff in china too.
> 
> If you want an inexpensive ti frame, always consider Habaneros sold by Mike Hickey. http://www.habcycles.com/



Please do not place that bet! Motobecane Ti bikes are not made in China - they are made in taiwan.

It is true, we could make a bit more money by paying less and getting Ti frames from China. But that does not fit with our objective on these Ti bikes.

You are right, lots of taiwan companies build stuff in China; and lots of frames on bikes from Specialized, Trek, Scott, and so on come from China. Many seem very nice. BUT for Ti frames I really like the workmanship we are getting out of our Taiwan frame factory.

In time, I think everyone will see enough reviews and posts to completely understand what we are doing with our Ti line.


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## andresmuro

bikesdirect said:


> Please do not place that bet! Motobecane Ti bikes are not made in China - they are made in taiwan.
> 
> It is true, we could make a bit more money by paying less and getting Ti frames from China. But that does not fit with our objective on these Ti bikes.
> 
> You are right, lots of taiwan companies build stuff in China; and lots of frames on bikes from Specialized, Trek, Scott, and so on come from China. Many seem very nice. BUT for Ti frames I really like the workmanship we are getting out of our Taiwan frame factory.
> 
> In time, I think everyone will see enough reviews and posts to completely understand what we are doing with our Ti line.


Just to clarify, I never felt that they stuff that you sell is of bad quality. I think that you all sell great stuff at great prices. I've seen your stuff and like it. Also, I've ordered wheels from Bikeisland and always get treated very well. 

Having said that, Chinese Ti seems really good stuff as well as inexpensive. So, I am surprised about your stuff coming out of Taiwan. I stand corrected. 

Andres


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## aaronis31337

I own this frame and absolutely LOVE it. Mind you, I haven't been on many other frames, but the quality of this bike is amazing. It rides smooth and it VERY stiff. The diamond downtube is 30% stiffer than round tubes. It's very light and looks MUCH better than it does in the pics on the bikesdirect website. Mind you, It's expensive compared to the carbon frames, but it will last a lifetime.

Also, carbon frames vary in quality vastly. TI is TI (except for the now rare 6/4 TI). The welds are geometry is what really set any frame apart. I think you'll be happy with this frame in terms of quality.

My advice, get the cheapest model and replace the wheels with Neuvation or Flit. Brand name wheels are a waste of money.


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## Seraxmd

*TI Frame*

I also have the LeChampion Ti frame (not the team frame) and love it. However, I'm a mountain biker and cannot compare as this is my first road bike. All I can say is that it's wicked light and even the Ritchey wheels/bar/seat post have held up. The only thing I changed is my saddle. It's worth every penny and would probably cost $5k if it were Litespeed or comparable. (No I'm not a shill for BD).


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## Dresden

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/lechamp_teamti_10_frameset.htm

Looks like a pretty nice deal for people who might want to switch parts over from their current bikes.


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## doctorspokes

*Pulled the trigger*

Well folks, I just pulled the trigger on a new LeChamp TI with the full Ultegra setup. I am optomistic, yet sceptical, but I am looking forward to the new bike. I will keep you informed of how everything goes.:thumbsup:


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## SERVA

*motobecane titanium*

i hope you like your new buy. i have the le champion sl aluminum with ultegra and i love it. let me know your impresions on the titanium as son as you ride it since i just checked out the bd website and the have the titanium framesets in stock for $899. i think is a pretty good deal. and i probably will up-grade my current aluminum frame with the titanium. so far i put over 8000 miles on mine with out any problems. good luck.


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## doctorspokes

*Just Got It!*

Well, my LeChamp SL Titanium arrived. I ordered it on Labor Day Monday, and it was on my doorstep on Friday morning. The box was in pretty good shape... A couple of insignificant dings but no major signs of abuse. The bike was safely packed away inside. It took about 10-15 minutes to remove all of the 17 pounds of boxing, packing, tubing, plastic, tape and rubber bands which held it together in the box. Having done it now once before, I can say if you were not at all that particular with your bikes, you could put it together in about 35- 40 minutes after removing the packing. I took about 2 hours, but I am anal retentive about these things. I checked pretty much every screw and part on the bike (just to put things in perspective it usually takes me over an hour to do a good clean up job on my old road bike – so I am pretty particular). I would say I was pretty impressed by the factory setup. If as I say you weren’t too particular you could ride it as is after the final assembly. Only one of the brake pads really needed to be adjusted, but I fine tuned and toed in all four. The front and rear derailleurs were workable as is, but I did some fine tuning on both to make them perfect. I was most worried about the wheels, frankly because I have no experience in truing wheels myself, and I was afraid I would have to bring them to the LBS. I am happy to say that both of the Mavics were straight as an arrow. No tweaking required. The road pedals which come with the bike look pretty decent, Shimano 105’s, but as I use SPD’s, so I ordered a new set on line. 
The bike weighed in at exactly 17 lbs for the 53 inch model, without the pedals. I took it out for a shakedown ride today and after 16 miles today, all I can say is SWEET!! The ride was smooth but lively. I found the bike to be very responsive, especially if you kept your weight back a little in the saddle. The ride was not as jumpy as the Trek Madone. If you shift your weight a little more forward it rides a little more like the Roubaix expert, but not as sedate. The stem which comes with the bike also has a little up angle and the head tube is a little higher like the Roubaix also so I found it to be very relaxed and easy on the back. The Ultegra 6700 groupset is sharp as a tack and works perfectly. The seat post is only fair and the saddle is a little cheesy so I will be swapping them out for my old carbon specialized pave post and Bontragger Race XL saddle, and I can’t wait to try it out with those. I haven’t decided if I am going to keep the wheels or swap them for my old Reynolds set.
I will post back after I have some more miles on the bike and give an update. At this point all I can say is Bravo!! Bikes Direct, I am a believer. I was really worried, but now I think I got the deal of the century. I don’t think I could have come close to this quality for under 4G’s. If anyone wants, I can post some of the “no shill pics” later. As it is I wrote too much for one post.:thumbsup:


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## psykorunr

psykorunr said:


> I am curious about which other bike names may be "cousins" to Motobecanes. Cousins meaning bikes that are built by the same factory in Asia but given a different name/plate when sent to the US. Giant is the largest company that makes frames for other brands including Trek, Specialized, Schwinn, and Bianchi. I have read that Motobecane frames MAY be made by Kinesis (makes Raleigh), Martec (makes Kestrel and Orbea), or even possibly Giant but I have yet to see any solid info.
> 
> I have yet to receive my Ti bike. Motobecane is currently taking advance orders and will not ship until the end of this month. Once I give the bike a whirl, Ill share my thoughts. :idea:


All of the evening showers around NC have kept me from riding the my new Motobecane Titanium bike until recently. I finally took it for a couple of rides along the BR Pkwy, totaling about 40 miles, to see how it handled. The ride is indeed supple, as advertised…not too stiff and not spongy. As mentioned in a prior post, some of the tubing is triangular instead of circular to enhance the ride. Bumps were absorbed much better than they are on an aluminum bike. My only complaints are with the brake pads and the saddle. The pads (Cane Creek SCR3) don’t seem to be “grippy” enough and the saddle (Ritchey Pro) is Spartan and does not have a center cut out. I have replaced the saddle with a comfortable Carbon/Ti cut out from Performance/Forte but I have yet to replace the pads. Other than those two items, I really like the bike. The Ultegra shifters, Ultegra deraillers, and FSA bottom bracket/cranks are very nice and smooth, except the rear derailler does need a minor tune up. Some people on the net have criticized the Mavic Aksium wheels for being too heavy but I like them and could not detect an unusually slow acceleration. The Vittoria Rubino Pro tires with Kevlar protected the tube well when going over several sections of gravel. Overall I am very pleased. From my perspective, the ride is of similar quality to Cannondale carbon fiber and Waterford custom steel bikes that I recently test rode.

Even though I had to assemble the bike for ~30 minutes, determine my proper fit, and need to take it to a LBS for a tune up, that time and cost is marginal compared to the $1500-2000 savings from not buying a Litespeed.

:thumbsup:


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## doctorspokes

*Cane Creek*

That is why I went for the few extra bucks and bought the $2G model. Because not only did it the $1700 model have the FSA crank, but it had the Cane Creek brakes instead of the Ultegra brakes. I used to ride Tektro Brakes and they were marginal at best. I was able to beef them up a bit by using the Aztec Mag 2 brakes and pads. But after I test rode a new bike with the Ultegra callipers and brake pads I was blown away. I did not want to make that substitution for the Cane Creek. It was a tough choice too, because the FSA was a compact - which I really wanted. I think Mike would have been better off just selling two full Ultegra versions...with and without the compact. It would have been much better quality and would have prevented some negative reviews on forums like these:idea:


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## 20sMotoSpirit

doctorspokes said:


> That is why I went for the few extra bucks and bought the $2G model. Because not only did it the $1700 model have the FSA crank, but it had the Cane Creek brakes instead of the Ultegra brakes. I used to ride Tektro Brakes and they were marginal at best. I was able to beef them up a bit by using the Aztec Mag 2 brakes and pads. But after I test rode a new bike with the Ultegra callipers and brake pads I was blown away. I did not want to make that substitution for the Cane Creek. It was a tough choice too, because the FSA was a compact - which I really wanted. I think Mike would have been better off just selling two full Ultegra versions...with and without the compact. It would have been much better quality and would have prevented some negative reviews on forums like these:idea:



Its not so much that they are "Shimano" brakes its that they are shimano brake pads. I have the SCR5 brakes and I replaced the shoes with 5500 pads first...they were terrible but an improvement over the cane creek. I recently replaced them with DA7900 Pads, which will fit in any 9 speed shoe. the 7900 pads have helped me overcome my fear of decending, going from 18-20 mph.... to just a hair under 40mph... don't believe me? Try them and see for yourself


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## Susu87

hey, Yea please post some pics. I just ordered my moto titanium sl. it should be here by thursday.


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## Christoph

Hey, guys. Tell me how tall you guys are....what's your inseam etc...

...what size Le Champion did you guys order? 

I'm currently riding a 56cm bike, but, looking at the Le Champion's specs, it looks like I'll need a 53 if I order one. 

Tell me about the bike's you ordered--how they feel and are working out as far as sizing. 

Thanks.


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## aaronis31337

I'm 6 foot even (without shoes). I dunno my inseam. 

I'd buy the 53cm if i were you. The sizing is off. At 56 I had to shorten the stem to 90mm. It fits pretty well now.


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## aaronis31337

I've been telling him that for some time. He won't listen.


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## psykorunr

Christoph said:


> Hey, guys. Tell me how tall you guys are....what's your inseam etc...
> 
> ...what size Le Champion did you guys order?
> 
> I'm currently riding a 56cm bike, but, looking at the Le Champion's specs, it looks like I'll need a 53 if I order one.
> 
> Tell me about the bike's you ordered--how they feel and are working out as far as sizing.
> 
> Thanks.


I am 5-10 with a 32-in inseam. I ordered a 56cm. It fits well. :thumbsup:


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## psykorunr

This photo is of a sticker attached to my Motobecane Titanium frame. It says that it is Aerospace grade and hand crafted in Taiwan. What I am wondering is the meaning of the initials "DB" and "ORA". Is that the initials of the Taiwanese company that makes this frame?


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## Jay_T

I just got my titanium Le Champion on Monday. The box arrived in great shape and the set up was quite simple. So far I have added a Trek 11i computer and Shimano a530 pedals, so I can use my MTB shoes for now. 

The Cane Creek brakes do seem a little weak compared to the V brakes on my Trek 7.3 that I'm used to, and I was surprised the frame is not clear coated to protect the graphics. Other wise I have no complaints, even the saddle has not been an problem, yet, but I only have 20 miles on the bike so far. 

As for sizing... I am 6'2'" 34" inseam and went with the 59cm, I am very pleased with the fit. The next size down is a 56cm and I'm sure that would have been too small. I used this online fit calculator.

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=FIT_CALCULATOR_INTRO

The frame dimensions the calculator recommended for an "Eddy" fit agreed almost exactly with the 59cm frame dimensions listed on the BD website. 

So far I am very pleased this bike. The craftsmanship put into the frame is very good, and I'm sure with proper maintenance this bike will last a long long time.


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## doctorspokes

*Fit and size*

Give me a couple more days to post the pics. I just took them on my daughter's camera and need to figure out how to upload them here. As for sizing, I am 5'9' and my inseam is 31 inches measured tight to the crotch. I went with the 53 model although Chris at BD thought I might be better with the 51. The fit for me is more relaxed on the 53, because it has a taller head tube. Also the Ritchy stem which comes on the bike has a significant pitch. I flipped the stem to the upward tilt position which cuts down on my reach and makes for a more relaxed position, but you could flip it over to the down position for a more aggressive fit. The stem might be a little long though, if you fliped it down, depending on your flexibility and arm length. My last bike was a 50-51 model and my seat was significantly higher than the bars. It was a fairly agressive fit though, and I could not comfortably ride on the drops for any significant amount of time. Now my saddle and the bars are almost level. I am certainly more upright now on the 53.


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## ninemileimages

*2010 Motobecane Le Champion Ti first impressions*

Just got the $1700 Moto Le Champ Ti model with the Ultegra and FSA. 19 miles last night and 10 miles before work this morning and I can say that I already love this bike. I am thinking it rides better than my Madone 4.7 but that is comparing apples to oranges. As stated in previous posts: titanium is the real deal. The ride is fast and smooth; a cross between steel and carbon (I hate aluminum's feel).

I am 5'6" with a 28.5" inseam and the 48cm fits perfectly. Had to move the seat forward just a bit and I might put on a 10mm shorter stem but other than that it fits just right. 

If you are thinking of purchasing a titanium bike from this line from BD you will not be disappointed. BTW: I DO NOT work for BD! This is my second bike from them and YES, I buy a lot from my LBS too.


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## mebert72

I just road my Le Champion Ti for the first time last night and the feel between this and my previous GT ZR3000 bike is like night and day. This bike rides sooo smooth compared to the aluminum bike I've ridden for the past 10 years.
I'm 6'0" with an inseam of 34", and bought the 56cm size. It seems to fit me fine so far, but to be fair I only have 26 miles on the first ride. The only drawbacks I have found so far is my shoes hit the front wheels on turns if I'm not careful, and it has much more twitchy steering than I'm used to (but I'm sure I'll get used to that). I couldn't get comfortable with the stock saddle so I'm swapping that for my old brooks before my next ride.


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## aaronis31337

It does have a short wheelbase. Kinda strange that a TI bike has kinda a crit geometry. It will make you a better rider in the long run though. Just be sure to pay attention.


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## tj90

psykorunr said:


> This photo is of a sticker attached to my Motobecane Titanium frame. It says that it is Aerospace grade and hand crafted in Taiwan. What I am wondering is the meaning of the initials "DB" and "ORA". Is that the initials of the Taiwanese company that makes this frame?


So did anyone figure out what DB and ORA means? DB = double butted?

ORA looks to be a Taiwanese manufacturing company that makes the frame:

https://www.trademarkia.com/ora-76685684.html

https://www.oraeng.com.tw/


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## Arkadi

Thought I would resurrect this as it was helpful for me in making my decison. I got my LeChamp Ti with Ultegra a few weeks ago. My impressions so far have been very favorable. I am certainly no tech but I was able to put the bike together in about an hour. After the initial build, I did change the stem for size and angle, the seat, brake pads (kool stops) and most recently the bars(FSA KWing Compacts). I did take it to the LBS to for the bars and stem, adjust the shifting and a "nut and bolt". The reception there was mixed. One of the managers raved about it. One of the techs seemed luke warm to it.

I am getting a pro fit done next week but the 59cm seems pretty good for me at 6'3, 34 inseam. I find the bike very quick and responsive. It is also stiffer than my last bike which was Aluminum with carbon stays. It is definitely lighter which I can feel under acceleration and climbing. I think the frame is beautiful and the welds look the same as those I have seen on Sevens and Litespeeds. I highly recommend the bars as they are super comfortable and simply pornographic to view I know the Askium wheels are maligned here but I am happy with them. I may put my custom Ultegra wheels on it for comparison sake some time.

If you know your sizing (which you can calculate with any number of fit guides on the web) and are willing to tinker and/or go to the LBs, I dont see how you can beat the value of these bikes.


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## equinoxx

to any bikes direct folks listening -- when are you getting more of the 48cm le champ ti heat (with SRAM rival groupset) 

My pocketbook is waiting to be relieved of some money...


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## doctorspokes

*Still going strong*

I got an update that someone posted from my original thread and realized that it has been almost 2 years to the date that I received my LeChampion Ti 53 inch. I will say that after 2 years and almost 7000 miles, I stand by my review after only 16 miles. Bravo! The bike handles very well and climbs and cruises like a pro. The changes I made to the original have held me through till now. The only other change is that I also dumped my Reynolds wheels for the Mavic Kserium SL's and am very pleased with those as well. The only complaint with the bike that I have after all this time as I said in a different thread is that the bike gets a little jittery if you take it over 34 MPH. My old Ironhorse road bike did not have any probs until I got over 40 MPH. But it is rare that I take it to those speeds without a tap on the breaks. Below 34, not a single problem. Maintenance has been what you would expect. I have replaced the rear derailleur cable once. I had a little problem with slippage when I swapped out the aluminum for a carbon seat post and I actually cracked the seat post tightening screw head about a year ago and bought a new seat post clamp. I am still on the original brake pads. I have rewrapped the bar a couple of times. But the bike has been my good and faithful friend for the last 2 years and I have no plans of making a bike change for at least another 7-10K miles. I still think that this bike is a phenomenal deal for the money and recommend it highly. :thumbsup:
Regards to all
Scott


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## chiken legs

DR. SPOKES,

Can you elaborate a little on the "little jittery" comment please? Is it the front wheel/steering that gets jittery or the whole ride? Does it happen all the time (different body positions/weight distribution)?

I am considering one of these bikes, and although I am no speedster, there are a few hills around that can propel me downhill at about 40mph (gotta love gravity when it works with you).

Thanks in advance for anything you can add.


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## marcalans

*Le Champion Ti Jitters*



doctorspokes said:


> The only complaint with the bike that I have after all this time as I said in a different thread is that the bike gets a little jittery if you take it over 34 MPH.


I've gone down hills on asphalt over 40 mph on my Specialized Stumpjumper (currently functioning as my road bike -- with slicks) without the steering becoming jittery.

I've read of other Le Champion owners who have complained that the steering gets twitchy, especially at high speeds. Is that what you mean? The wheelbase really isn't that long compared to other truly relaxed geometry bikes (e.g., Felt Z5, Specialized Roubaix, Moto Century). Also, in one of the published Le Champion Ti reviews, the reviewer did remark that the fork was the weakpoint of the bike, although the overall impression of the bike was very favorable.


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## akeelor

chiken legs said:


> DR. SPOKES,
> 
> Can you elaborate a little on the "little jittery" comment please? Is it the front wheel/steering that gets jittery or the whole ride? Does it happen all the time (different body positions/weight distribution)?
> 
> I am considering one of these bikes, and although I am no speedster, there are a few hills around that can propel me downhill at about 40mph (gotta love gravity when it works with you).
> 
> Thanks in advance for anything you can add.


I own the Ti SL version in 56cm and have had the bike at 42 mph w/o any "jitters". I highly recommend this bike. I've ridden two seasons on this frame and have essentially shelved my CF bike. I made a few changes: stem, handlebars, saddle, wheels and Yokozuna cable kit. Mostly personal preferences. I find the ride to be lively w/o being harsh.


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## chiken legs

akeelor said:


> I own the Ti SL version in 56cm and have had the bike at 42 mph w/o any "jitters". I highly recommend this bike. I ridden two seasons on this frame and have essentially shelved my CF bike. I made a few changes: stem, handlebars, saddle, wheels and Yokozuna cable kit. Mostly personal preferences. I find the ride to be lively w/o being harsh.


Akeelor,

Thanks for posting. Did you happen to weigh the bike when it arrived a couple of years ago. Just wanted to see how it's actual weight compared to advertised weight. I am close to pulling the trigger on the Ti SL version. Also is the 56cm as good a fit as you anticipated? (any surprises on fit- I guess is what I'm getting at.

Again thanks for the input.:thumbsup:


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## akeelor

A Bike shop weighed it at 18 lbs on the nose with pedals. Bike fit is just right for me. I was concerned just as many others on this forum have been. All worked out well and I am trying to convince my brother to take the plunge on the 59cm version. He is 6'4" and I am little under 6'2".


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## chiken legs

akeelor said:


> A Bike shop weighed it at 18 lbs on the nose with pedals. Bike fit is just right for me. I was concerned just as many others on this forum have been. All worked out well and I am trying to convince my brother to take the plunge on the 59cm version. He is 6'4" and I am little under 6'2".


Cool. I am a little under 6'2" as well but have a 35" inseam (hence the username) and my current bike has a 585mm top tube length. It matches the 59cm measurements pretty closely. I do like a more upright riding position due to back problems, so I think I will go with the slightly larger frame.

Thanks again for the assist.

Cheers.


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## marcalans

*Le Champion's comfort and stability*

Akeelor, can you please comment on the comfort of the Le Champion's riding position and its stability on fast descents. Is the steering a little twitchy as a few have reported? I am considering this bike for long rides, but the geometry (on paper) doesn't really seem that relaxed to me, which is something I'd like due to back issues. I'm vacillating between Le Champion and the Century Ti, but Le Champion is such a better value even though the Century's geometry is closer to what I probably need.


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## akeelor

marcalans said:


> Akeelor, can you please comment on the comfort of the Le Champion's riding position and its stability on fast descents. Is the steering a little twitchy as a few have reported? I am considering this bike for long rides, but the geometry (on paper) doesn't really seem that relaxed to me, which is something I'd like due to back issues. I'm vacillating between Le Champion and the Century Ti, but Le Champion is such a better value even though the Century's geometry is closer to what I probably need.


Marcalans,

This frame would fall somewhere in between a racing position and plush. I have owned all three and this one fits my dimensions the best. Stability has been solid, I've not detected any noticeable twitchiness. I ride 90% of the time on the hoods and if I ever get my weight to where I want will try to reduce that and get in the drops more frequently. I too have had some back issues but some good stretching and stronger core helps to alleviate. Overall, as I have mentioned in multiple threads, you can't really go wrong with this bike --unless you don't know how to fit yourself.

I wouldn't buy something that was a better value if I had to suffer in the fit department so I wouldn't make your decision based on the price for component ratio.


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## marcalans

*Re: Le Champion twitchy steering*

Thanks again for your reply, Akeelor. I think that some of the reports I've read regarding Le Champion's twitchy steering are probably related to incorrect sizing, which is another issue that I am concerned about. 

I currently am riding a Cannondale Carbon 3 Synapse (54 cm) on loan from a friend and I find this bike to be very comfortable. I've ridden the Specialized Roubaix, Giant Defy Advanced, Scott CR1, and Fuji SL Pro -- all full carbon and none of which are as comfortable or fit me as well as the Synapse, IMO. The problem is that I really don't want to buy carbon and am very interested in affordable Ti as an alternative -- hence, the Motobecane. 

The 54cm Synapse (which also has a slightly sloping TT) is relatively close in geometry to the 53cm Le Champion, except that the Synapse has a slightly longer head tube (16.5cm), chain stays, wheelbase (98.7cm), and a HT angle (72 degrees) that is more slack by 1 degree. The TTs are approximately the same (54cm). I have been reading with interest, however, the many posts suggesting that the Le Champion geometry is somewhat irregular and that the seat tube size is misleading because top tubes are larger, proportionately, relative to other bikes with similar seat tube sizing. One exception I sampled was the Fuji SL, which in a medium size (what I normally ride) has only a 50cm seat tube, but yet a 54.5cm top tube. In fact, one salesperson at an LBS claimed that the Fuji SL has very much the same fit as Le Champion.

I'm 5'8" with a 31.5" inseam. Normally I ride a 54cm frame. I would be inclined to step down to the 53cm Le Champion, but some have suggested the 51cm for those of my height, claiming that the Le Champion frames "run big." The dimensions of the 51cm, however, look small, especially the head tube length and wheelbase, and I do not want a bike that is squirrely. If the Le Champion 53cm fit me nearly as well as the 54cm Synapse, I'm sure that I would be happy and comfortable, but it's hard for me to imagine that the 51cm will fit or perform anywhere close to the Synapse that I am currently riding. Was your size choice close to what you normally rode before purchasing the Moto or did you downsize two sizes or so from the size your normally ride? Do you think that the 53cm Le Champion might be too large for someone of my size?


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## akeelor

marcalans said:


> Thanks again for your reply, Akeelor. I think that some of the reports I've read regarding Le Champion's twitchy steering are probably related to incorrect sizing, which is another issue that I am concerned about.
> 
> I currently am riding a Cannondale Carbon 3 Synapse (54 cm) on loan from a friend and I find this bike to be very comfortable. I've ridden the Specialized Roubaix, Giant Defy Advanced, Scott CR1, and Fuji SL Pro -- all full carbon and none of which are as comfortable or fit me as well as the Synapse, IMO. The problem is that I really don't want to buy carbon and am very interested in affordable Ti as an alternative -- hence, the Motobecane.
> 
> The 54cm Synapse (which also has a slightly sloping TT) is relatively close in geometry to the 53cm Le Champion, except that the Synapse has a slightly longer head tube (16.5cm), chain stays, wheelbase (98.7cm), and a HT angle (72 degrees) that is more slack by 1 degree. The TTs are approximately the same (54cm). I have been reading with interest, however, the many posts suggesting that the Le Champion geometry is somewhat irregular and that the seat tube size is misleading because top tubes are larger, proportionately, relative to other bikes with similar seat tube sizing. One exception I sampled was the Fuji SL, which in a medium size (what I normally ride) has only a 50cm seat tube, but yet a 54.5cm top tube. In fact, one salesperson at an LBS claimed that the Fuji SL has very much the same fit as Le Champion.
> 
> I'm 5'8" with a 31.5" inseam. Normally I ride a 54cm frame. I would be inclined to step down to the 53cm Le Champion, but some have suggested the 51cm for those of my height, claiming that the Le Champion frames "run big." The dimensions of the 51cm, however, look small, especially the head tube length and wheelbase, and I do not want a bike that is squirrely. If the Le Champion 53cm fit me nearly as well as the 54cm Synapse, I'm sure that I would be happy and comfortable, but it's hard for me to imagine that the 51cm will fit or perform anywhere close to the Synapse that I am currently riding. Was your size choice close to what you normally rode before purchasing the Moto or did you downsize two sizes or so from the size your normally ride? Do you think that the 53cm Le Champion might be too large for someone of my size?


What I can tell you is that I typically ride a "58cm" frame, for whatever that is worth. TT is ideal for me between 57-58cm and that is how the "56cm" sizes up. The seatpost can be adjusted another 2cm w/o a problem. It sound like you could run either the 51 or 53 and adjust the stem. At worst, you can return the bike within 30 days if you don't like the fit.


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## AndyPanda

I read this thread (and many others) for a few weeks before I bought my Le Champion Team Ti. I was really nervous about spending that much on a bike without trying out the fit first. I wanted to comment on the sizing since so many posts here suggested going a size or two sizes smaller for this particular frame.

Now ... I'm just a hair under 6' tall and have about a 34" inseam (more with cycling shoes). I do have large feet and I pedal with my toes somewhat pointed (not many posts I've read about fit seem to take shoe size and flat foot vs pointed toe into consideration). My hands are large and arms are long too. 

From reading this (and other) threads I would have thought the 56cm would be the frame to get or even the 53. But I also read a lot of other forums with older riders (I'm 57) looking for comfort rather than racer position. And I used several online fit calculators where you take many measurements. 

I ended up ordering the 59cm - and I had trouble sleeping (hehe) waiting for the bike to arrive and worrying that I had really goofed and the bike would be way too big for me. And it is pretty tall - I only have about 1" of clearance standing barefoot over the bars - but in cycling shoes it's better and really no worry at all about StandOver. I have the seatpost raised quite a bit higher than I would have thought (probably due to my large feet and the way I pedal with toes pointed a bit) and the handlebars were surprisingly low for such a large frame. After a few rides, I ended up flipping the stem and putting all the spacers below. The top of the bars are still about 2-3" below the seat - but now I can ride all day without any back or neck aches. I ride 90% on the hoods - but it's still comfortable in the drops.

BTW ... the bike is stunning looking. I really wasn't expecting that - the photos online don't begin to do justice to it. Everyone comments on it.


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## Ed-B

Racer types like a smaller fit, but it sounds like you've sized it right for recreational riding. 

I'm 5'5" and I went back and forth trying to decide between the 51cm and the 53cm frames. My 53cm Ti Heat feels great! I usually ride a 53-54cm conventional frame, and this bike has similar geometry with a taller head tube. 





AndyPanda said:


> I read this thread (and many others) for a few weeks before I bought my Le Champion Team Ti. I was really nervous about spending that much on a bike without trying out the fit first. I wanted to comment on the sizing since so many posts here suggested going a size or two sizes smaller for this particular frame.
> 
> Now ... I'm just a hair under 6' tall and have about a 34" inseam (more with cycling shoes). I do have large feet and I pedal with my toes somewhat pointed (not many posts I've read about fit seem to take shoe size and flat foot vs pointed toe into consideration). My hands are large and arms are long too.
> 
> From reading this (and other) threads I would have thought the 56cm would be the frame to get or even the 53. But I also read a lot of other forums with older riders (I'm 57) looking for comfort rather than racer position. And I used several online fit calculators where you take many measurements.
> 
> I ended up ordering the 59cm - and I had trouble sleeping (hehe) waiting for the bike to arrive and worrying that I had really goofed and the bike would be way too big for me. And it is pretty tall - I only have about 1" of clearance standing barefoot over the bars - but in cycling shoes it's better and really no worry at all about StandOver. I have the seatpost raised quite a bit higher than I would have thought (probably due to my large feet and the way I pedal with toes pointed a bit) and the handlebars were surprisingly low for such a large frame. After a few rides, I ended up flipping the stem and putting all the spacers below. The top of the bars are still about 2-3" below the seat - but now I can ride all day without any back or neck aches. I ride 90% on the hoods - but it's still comfortable in the drops.
> 
> BTW ... the bike is stunning looking. I really wasn't expecting that - the photos online don't begin to do justice to it. Everyone comments on it.


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## JasonB176

marcalans said:


> Thanks again for your reply, Akeelor. I think that some of the reports I've read regarding Le Champion's twitchy steering are probably related to incorrect sizing, which is another issue that I am concerned about.
> 
> I currently am riding a Cannondale Carbon 3 Synapse (54 cm) on loan from a friend and I find this bike to be very comfortable. I've ridden the Specialized Roubaix, Giant Defy Advanced, Scott CR1, and Fuji SL Pro -- all full carbon and none of which are as comfortable or fit me as well as the Synapse, IMO. The problem is that I really don't want to buy carbon and am very interested in affordable Ti as an alternative -- hence, the Motobecane.
> 
> The 54cm Synapse (which also has a slightly sloping TT) is relatively close in geometry to the 53cm Le Champion, except that the Synapse has a slightly longer head tube (16.5cm), chain stays, wheelbase (98.7cm), and a HT angle (72 degrees) that is more slack by 1 degree. The TTs are approximately the same (54cm). I have been reading with interest, however, the many posts suggesting that the Le Champion geometry is somewhat irregular and that the seat tube size is misleading because top tubes are larger, proportionately, relative to other bikes with similar seat tube sizing. One exception I sampled was the Fuji SL, which in a medium size (what I normally ride) has only a 50cm seat tube, but yet a 54.5cm top tube. In fact, one salesperson at an LBS claimed that the Fuji SL has very much the same fit as Le Champion.
> 
> I'm 5'8" with a 31.5" inseam. Normally I ride a 54cm frame. I would be inclined to step down to the 53cm Le Champion, but some have suggested the 51cm for those of my height, claiming that the Le Champion frames "run big." The dimensions of the 51cm, however, look small, especially the head tube length and wheelbase, and I do not want a bike that is squirrely. If the Le Champion 53cm fit me nearly as well as the 54cm Synapse, I'm sure that I would be happy and comfortable, but it's hard for me to imagine that the 51cm will fit or perform anywhere close to the Synapse that I am currently riding. Was your size choice close to what you normally rode before purchasing the Moto or did you downsize two sizes or so from the size your normally ride? Do you think that the 53cm Le Champion might be too large for someone of my size?


I'm sorry I didn't find this thread earlier as it contains some excellent information. Did you end up getting a bike *marcalans*? I'm also agonizing a bit over buying a bike through the mail without trying it for fit and overall feel. Like you, I'm 5'8" and have always ridden either a 53 or 54cm frame. I can't imagine the 51 being correct but the various reviews have made me wonder a bit.

I'd love to hear more feedback in general about the Motobecane Ti bikes from bikesdirect! I'll probably pull the trigger on my selection soon. A guy at my LBS derided the quality of titanium from mail order bikes but it sounds like his opinion is in the minority as would be somewhat expected from a bike shop.


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## Ed-B

The Ti LeChampion is a very nice bike - especially for the price. I've owned two Litespeeds in the past, and I can say that these Motobecanes are built very well. 

I'm 5' 5" and I usually ride a 53-54cm frame with conventional geometry. I like a bike with the handlebar about 1cm lower than the saddle. Some companies call this a comfort or performance fit, not so much a race fit.

I bought the 53cm LeChampion Ti Heat after debating on the 51cm, and I'm glad that I got the 53cm bike. When you consider the seat angle is steeper on the 51cm, you'll need to move the saddle back further on the rails to achieve the same position over the bottom bracket - so that washes out the longer top tube. Then what you gain is a taller head tube which makes it easy to put the bar at near saddle height. I'm using a Regal Ti saddle on a Ritchey clone seat post, and I put 170mm 39/53 Rival cranks on my bike.

I'm very happy with this bike.


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## twodownzero

I'm surprised you fit so well on a bigger bike. I'm teh same height as you and I ride a 50cm now. I wonder if my bike isn't too small.


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## marcalans

JasonB176 said:


> I'm sorry I didn't find this thread earlier as it contains some excellent information. Did you end up getting a bike *marcalans*? I'm also agonizing a bit over buying a bike through the mail without trying it for fit and overall feel. Like you, I'm 5'8" and have always ridden either a 53 or 54cm frame. I can't imagine the 51 being correct but the various reviews have made me wonder a bit.
> .


Jason,

Haven't committed to the Moto yet. The fit calculator at Competitive Cyclist recommended a 55 effective TT for me. I sent Chris at BD all of my measurements and he recommended the 51 cm, which, with the exception of the 54cm TT, sure looks small on paper. I've always comfortably rode between a 54-55cm TT so I don't think that the 55cm TT on the 53cm frame would be that much of a stretch. The 53cm also has a 30.6" standover. My inseam is 31.5" so I would still have almost an inch of clearance.

I recently was able to try a Lynskey R230 (size M), which has a 54.1cm TT and 30.1" standover. It felt very good, but the head tube and wheelbase are both a couple of centimeters longer than on the 51cm Le Champion. Who knows? I may end up buying a Lynskey.


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## Ed-B

*Seat tube angle is a significant factor!*



marcalans said:


> Jason,
> 
> Haven't committed to the Moto yet. The fit calculator at Competitive Cyclist recommended a 55 effective TT for me. I sent Chris at BD all of my measurements and he recommended the 51 cm, which, with the exception of the 54cm TT, sure looks small on paper. I've always comfortably rode between a 54-55cm TT so I don't think that the 55cm TT on the 53cm frame would be that much of a stretch. The 53cm also has a 30.6" standover. My inseam is 31.5" so I would still have almost an inch of clearance.
> 
> I recently was able to try a Lynskey R230 (size M), which has a 54.1cm TT and 30.1" standover. It felt very good, but the head tube and wheelbase are both a couple of centimeters longer than on the 51cm Le Champion. Who knows? I may end up buying a Lynskey.


You really need to consider the seat tube angle in conjunction with the top tube length. 

Rider position over the bottom bracket is effected by seat tube angle.

With a steeper seat tube angle you'll need to put the saddle further back to achieve the same position over the bottom bracket - this effectively lengthens the top tube. A more relaxed seat tube angle allows the saddle to sit more forward on the post rails for a comparable position over the bottom bracket - this effectively shortens the top tube.

The 53cm Moto Ti frame has a 73 degree seat angle, which is not as steep as most frames in a similar size, so the 55cm seat tube is not effectively as long as it might seem when considered as a single variable.


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