# Gerdemann, now free to speak?



## ProRoad (Oct 13, 2008)

So Linus G. announces with Milram and now he is free to talk about Lance's return, "This is not positive for the credibility of cycling," Did he say these things when he was on an American team? I don't think so.

http://velonews.com/article/84748/gerdemann-criticizes-armstrong-comeback

What is it with the Germans lately? TV pulls the plug, anti doobie crusades, cancelling tours, riders talking smack, prosecutions.

They are only interested in the sport when they have a star in the spotlight.

When did cycling become more important than Cancer awareness? I say screw them.

Brian


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

He's a whiner. Is there anyone else that's whined to get out of two ProTour team contracts? Gerdemann's behavior undermines his credibility. Is Milram's anti-doping program as comprehensive as Columbia's?


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## Susan Walker (Mar 21, 2008)

jorgy said:


> He's a whiner.


"He" is a girl! Attached from http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos.php?id=/photos/2008/features/highroad_launch08/JD_HRpresent023


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

And to think you found one of the more manly pics of him.


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## fleck (Mar 25, 2005)

what the heck is up with the cross hatch on his mug? Did he fall asleep on a tennis racquet or something?


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

He is only saying what many cycling fans think.


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## ProRoad (Oct 13, 2008)

bigpinkt said:


> He is only saying what many cycling fans think.


Where? I don't want to live there! Actually, I feel bad for the German fans.

I was considering a job in Germany until I read that they said no to a tour stage due to the negative image of cycling!

"Düsseldorf has withdrawn its bid to host the start of the 2010 race"

I couldn't believe it, they really got it bad there. http://velonews.com/article/83341

Sad times, I hope they get better.
Brian


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

ProRoad said:


> Where? I don't want to live there! Actually, I feel bad for the German fans.
> 
> I was considering a job in Germany until I read that they said no to a tour stage due to the negative image of cycling!
> 
> ...


Germans still love cycling, they just don't like cheating.

Cycling is still very much a western European sport, France, Italy, Spain, Belgium. Many fans are not happy with Lance coming back. 

Stade 2 had a poll 

Do you wish Lance Armstrong to be on the Tour 2009:
- Yes, absolutely: 6%
- Yes, rather: 23%
- No, rather not: 25%
- No, not at all: 44%

Is Armstrong coming back
- a good news for cycling? : 9%
- a bad news for cycling? : 49%
- neither bad or good: 41%

Ulrich might have had worse numbers if he tried to come back. Many fans hope that we are emerging from a dark period in the sports history. The return of riders who dominated that period is a cause for concern for many.


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## jhamlin38 (Oct 29, 2005)

If Germans are so high and mighty against doping, why don't they look a bit closer at what's going in in the Bundesliga. I absolutely don't believe that they play 90-95 minutes at full tilt, for up to 50 games over nine months, completely clean. Puerto had several cyclists involved, but who were the rest?


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

jhamlin38 said:


> If Germans are so high and mighty against doping, why don't they look a bit closer at what's going in in the Bundesliga. I absolutely don't believe that they play 90-95 minutes at full tilt, for up to 50 games over nine months, completely clean. Puerto had several cyclists involved, but who were the rest?


Actually doping in football is a big story in Germany and their controls are some of the most aggressive in the game. They increased the testing this season and now also include out of competition testing. The testing is performed by the German version of WADA so it is independent of the FA


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

fleck said:


> what the heck is up with the cross hatch on his mug? Did he fall asleep on a tennis racquet or something?


He's standing in front of a projector. It's on his arms and jersery, too.


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## MaestroXC (Sep 15, 2005)

Nitro, how dare you provide a real explanation? We're knocking the guy here because he would prefer the The Almighty Texan remain retired!


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## Doctor Who (Feb 22, 2005)

ProRoad said:


> I was considering a job in Germany until I read that they said no to a tour stage due to the negative image of cycling!


What a weird reason not to take a job. Most people turn down jobs because of pay, benefits, or long commutes.


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## jhamlin38 (Oct 29, 2005)

whether he's saying what other people say they believe, I say he's a duchebag for saying it about another competitor, on another team. I always pulled for Linus. Now he's Linus the penis.


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## ProRoad (Oct 13, 2008)

MaestroXC said:


> Nitro, how dare you provide a real explanation? We're knocking the guy here because he would prefer the The Almighty Texan remain retired!


LOFL. no, we're knocking Germany for slamming cycling (The devil's sport:devil: ) in general........I should have been more clear in my first post.

Brian


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

jhamlin38 said:


> whether he's saying what other people say they believe, I say he's a duchebag for saying it about another competitor, on another team. I always pulled for Linus. Now he's Linus the penis.


The Douchebag list is a long one. Many riders have made a point of calling out dopers who return to the sport.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

bigpinkt said:


> The Douchebag list is a long one. Many riders have made a point of calling out dopers who return to the sport.


It's the irony of him switching from one of the teams with the most comprehensive anti-doping programs to Milram. He's talking the talk, but not walking the walk.

And the fact that he's weaseled out of contracts twice within a span of a few years suggests he's not of very high character.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

jorgy said:


> It's the irony of him switching from one of the teams with the most comprehensive anti-doping programs to Milram. He's talking the talk, but not walking the walk.
> 
> And the fact that he's weaseled out of contracts twice within a span of a few years suggests he's not of very high character.


If you are looking for people of high character then pro Cycling is the last place I would look. As for Milram, it is perhaps the most poorly run, underachieving. team in the Pro Peloton. If they have a bunch of dopers on their team they they better get a new program cuase it aint working


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

*Whooooooooooossshhhh*

That's the sound of my post going over your head.


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## Bob Dopolina (Nov 1, 2008)

+1.

If you think LA's return is about anything other than LA then you need to wipe the hype from your eyes.


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## clint eastwood (Sep 14, 2008)

that's right! LA is a saint. He deserves the eternal life..


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## ProRoad (Oct 13, 2008)

Germany's Cycling issue's and lack of confidence in the sport have very little to do with LA.

Keep blaming.


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## clint eastwood (Sep 14, 2008)

I'm not blaming...this thread is about Gerdemann making comments about LA. This is not about German Cycling. He's free to speak but some people don't like honest comments I guess.


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## Susan Walker (Mar 21, 2008)

jorgy said:


> And to think you found one of the more manly pics of him.


Here she is with her hair in bunches (pigtails) but also a worrying 5 o'clock shadow.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

I love that people like you think it's All. About. Lance.

All. day. Every. Day. It's. All. About. Lance.


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## Digger28 (Oct 9, 2008)

jorgy said:


> I love that people like you think it's All. About. Lance.
> 
> All. day. Every. Day. It's. All. About. Lance.


Well, to be fair, the thread is in relation to Linus talking about Lance's return!!! So, I would've thought Lance would come into the debate!!!!


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

My comments had nothing to do with the hypocrisy of Gerdemann's statement vs. his move from a team with a progressive anti-doping program to one with a program that appears to be constructed of smoke and mirrors. No, nothing at all.  

I personally think Lance should be spending time in Austin raising his kids instead of embarking on what is a big ego trip. One need not be a Lance fanboy to think Gerdemann is a tool for not walking his talk.


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## Digger28 (Oct 9, 2008)

jorgy said:


> My comments had nothing to do with the hypocrisy of Gerdemann's statement vs. his move from a team with a progressive anti-doping program to one with a program that appears to be constructed of smoke and mirrors. No, nothing at all.
> 
> I personally think Lance should be spending time in Austin raising his kids instead of embarking on what is a big ego trip. One need not be a Lance fanboy to think Gerdemann is a tool for not walking his talk.


So much to say here!!!
As someone who is not Lance's biggest fan, to say the least!!!, I don't care what he does with his children...it's not my business...Only interested in his cycling here...And in relation to cycling, am certainly not happy with his comeback....

Gerdemann's hypocrisy?!!! He is staunchly anti-doping...and has been for a number of years...he left Columbia for a number of reasons, to suggest it is in relation to their seemingly strict anti-doping policy is very disingenuous...could it possibly be that he feels he'll be given more of a chance as the leading GC rider with Milram, as opposed to probably playing support to Kirchen with Columbia?!!! Could it possibly be about more money??!! Also, the reality is that most people prefer to ride for a team of their own nationality anyway, if the opportunity presents itself that is...And Columbia, is not a Euro team, but it was a German team when Linus first came there...
Linus is one rider, who has walked the walk in the doping issue from a long way out...I am personally sad to see him leave Columbia....


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## Dank (Nov 26, 2006)

Gerdemann is upset because he dosen't want to lose to an old guy and he knows he will. All these posts are funny. Germany always hated Lance, look what he did to Ulrich. Isn't there enough hate in the world, why does it have to be in cycling too? I'm thinking L.A. won't be in the tour, I believe he will focus on the Giro.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

He talks the talk, but does he walk the walk? His move suggests no, other things are more important.


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## DMFT (Feb 3, 2005)

*In my opinion.....*

Linus should be taking aim at his fellow countrymen & riders who have been busted for doping this year rather than taking pot shots at one individual.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

DMFT said:


> Linus should be taking aim at his fellow countrymen & riders who have been busted for doping this year rather than taking pot shots at one individual.


He has. 

When Sinkewitz tested positive he called him sad and stupid....something most would agree with. He has been staunchly anti dope and has routinely criticized German riders who test positive......as have much of the German press.

When he won a stage of the Tour in 2007 he said 

"We have to go that way otherwise cycling is dead," "Everyone has to understand that this is the new way, and there are no other possibilities. Cycling has to be clean otherwise there is no future."


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## 1stmh (Apr 7, 2007)

I like how some people blame Linus G for 'speaking out'. He is a professional cyclist, and any journalist with a microphone is bound to ask his opinion. Especially when he signs for a new team, and is at a press conference. You may not like it or share his opinion, but that does not discount it, or the fact that many share his opinion (I personally don't). 
Anyway my point is, it's not like he's on a forum on the internet desperately trying to give his opinion. So before you point fingers at him for 'voicing an opinion', look in the mirror. 



Oh, and he def has many effeminate features.


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## Jimbolaya (Jun 2, 2008)

I hate to say it, but the independent anti -doping seems to be a sham. The blood passport too. They didn't catch Ricco or Pepoli or Kohl or anyone else. The tracing marker in the CERA caught them. And CERA is used to mask blood doping, not for actual performance increases itself. Some pros are still cheating. It's sometimes very obvious when you see them ride. I like cancellara, but he looks doped. It hard to believe that he's not.

If milram is not burning it's money on anti-doping stuff, it can pay Linus more for his riding. If linus is clean, then his team's anti-doping smoke screen wouldn't matter to him. Also, linus may want to stay closer to home and not attend extended training camps in the US. We don't know is motives for changing teams.


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## Bob Dopolina (Nov 1, 2008)

Jimbolaya said:


> I hate to say it, but the independent anti -doping seems to be a sham. The blood passport too. They didn't catch Ricco or Pepoli or Kohl or anyone else. The tracing marker in the CERA caught them. And CERA is used to mask blood doping, not for actual performance increases itself. Some pros are still cheating. It's sometimes very obvious when you see them ride. I like cancellara, but he looks doped. It hard to believe that he's not.
> 
> If milram is not burning it's money on anti-doping stuff, it can pay Linus more for his riding. If linus is clean, then his team's anti-doping smoke screen wouldn't matter to him. Also, linus may want to stay closer to home and not attend extended training camps in the US. We don't know is motives for changing teams.


I don't believe that CERA is a masking agent. It works by making the receptors (for a hormone IIRC) stay open longer. These receptors are part of the sequence of reactions that stimulate red cell production.

You are correct in saying that they were caught by the presence a marker being placed in the CERA.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

Bob Dopolina said:


> You are correct in saying that they were caught by the presence a marker being placed in the CERA.


Only not so much.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/23/sports/23roche.php


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

Bob Dopolina said:


> I don't believe that CERA is a masking agent. It works by making the receptors (for a hormone IIRC) stay open longer. These receptors are part of the sequence of reactions that stimulate red cell production.
> 
> You are correct in saying that they were caught by the presence a marker being placed in the CERA.


You are correct that CERA is not a masking agent. There was not, however, a marker inserted. This was mistakenly reported. Reality is Roche told the group researching the test that there would be a certain large molecule to look for, however this marker was not inserted for testing, it was there already.


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## Jimbolaya (Jun 2, 2008)

I say it is a masking agent, because the production of red blood cells will drop off when extra blood is injected into the blood strem. The bio passport and independent anti doping agents are looking for spikes and drops in the blood cell production. CERA is used to keep the blood cell production up, after extra blood is injected.


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## Susan Walker (Mar 21, 2008)

Jimbolaya said:


> I say it is a masking agent, because the production of red blood cells will drop off when extra blood is injected into the blood strem. The bio passport and independent anti doping agents are looking for spikes and drops in the blood cell production. CERA is used to keep the blood cell production up, after extra blood is injected.


Not much of a masking agent that is both outlawed itself _and_ detectable.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

Jimbolaya said:


> I say it is a masking agent, because the production of red blood cells will drop off when extra blood is injected into the blood strem. The bio passport and independent anti doping agents are looking for spikes and drops in the blood cell production. CERA is used to keep the blood cell production up, after extra blood is injected.


It is not a masking agent. You are correct that riders use micro dosing of EPO to keep from trigger the "Off Score" alarm. With CERA this was not thought to be necessary as it maintains a consistent level for months

Unlike single injections of rEPO, CERA interacts with erythropoietin receptors and has a longer-lasting effect. Riders who were normally required to inject rEPO three times a week were able to achieve the same results with only one or two injections per month.

CERA has a different molecular mass from EPO. In testing you see synthetic EPO in urine in the form of bars on an electrophoregram. The challenge is that CERA is connected to a chemical called polyethylene glycol (PEG), which makes it last longer in the body. The drug was rumored to be blocked from the kidneys due to its size and therefore undetectable by urine-based doping controls. Luckily Roche said there was a large molecule to look for. It was still a challenge for urine based controls but blood based testing found it easily.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

*Let the moonwalking commence*

Gerdemann said in a statement to Cyclingnews: "At the Team Milram press conference, I was asked whether I found Lance Armstrong's comeback good. I said that on the one hand it would surely draw more attention to cycling. On the other hand, in connection with the German media coverage, Lance Armstrong is virtually always connected to doping. I did not say anything about the riders of Lance's generation and certainly did not draw any conclusions about them." 

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/nov08/nov06news2


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## Digger28 (Oct 9, 2008)

*Kloden's take on it*

I want to vomit...this is not right...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/nov08/nov10news2

Seems like the old stagers are still looking after each other...I wonder why......Especially considering that Kloden left T-Mobile because he considered their new (at the time) anti-doping programme, to be an invasion of his privacy...


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## Donegal (Apr 23, 2005)

*Talk the Talk*

I don't think that these big mouthed dope crusaders help the sport at all. King Linus claims that Lance's return to cycling is bad. The only one it is bad for is either Lance or ASO. Who cares, Lance's return to cycling creates enough press to keep our sport in the eyes of the general public which we so need, in this country so therefore it is good.

I cannot believe the organizers, riders, team director's, etc, who make a career out of doping headlines. The Tour is killing the Tour. It's not about cycling, it's about doping. Shut the hell up and run the race. L'Equipe, the local ragsheet would rather run headlines about who's getting dope tested than who won yesterday's stage and how they did it.

Any rider or director who is too outspoken about dope is suspect. Greg Lemond, our old washed up has-been who is insanely jealous loves to attack Armstrong. Back in his day, they would shoot up horse pis# if they thought it would make them go faster. No testing, nobody cared, let's give it hell. He is not one to talk.

Gerdmann is not very impressive as a cyclist, you want a good German cyclist, Jens Voight let his legs do the talking. David Millar hasn't done squat without his needle, so he is a bitter old man. I am so tired of his headlines, >>KLFSL mus be doping, he is riding too fast. He is just pissed off because he got caught.

Let's get focused back on what counts, doping will continue to be a fight, ongoing with team testing, the UCI and organizers. Cycling is killing itself by sensationalizing the doping not the effort or strength of the human spirit.

Non-cyclists need to see the pain on a riders face when he attacks, not headlines of a cyclist being led away in handcuffs for using a Testosterone patch. That's what sells TV coverage. Any sport should promote a positive image, period, if it wants to prosper and grow. I am an avid cyclist and remain infuriated by the news, 60% of which is dedicated to doping and fear of doping. We have just lost the Tour of Georgiadue to economic times, but this bad publicity cannot help. Wake up and smell the coffee.


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## clint eastwood (Sep 14, 2008)

these guys are not big anti dope crusaders. That's were you got it wrong. The press asks them about their opinion on the subject and they rightly do so..
Good or bad riders, thats beside the question!


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## lookrider (Dec 3, 2006)

May I quote George Carlin on LA?


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## Susan Walker (Mar 21, 2008)

lookrider said:


> May I quote George Carlin on LA?


"Fcuk the fcuking fcuker!" ... ?


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