# Turn out the lights, Tommy D's party is over



## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

50th today in the Route de Sud ITT that was uphill - supposedly were he should shine. You gotta think the Tour is out now. He was even beaten by 3 of his teammates.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

Mootsie said:


> 50th today in the Route de Sud ITT that was uphill - supposedly were he should shine. You gotta think the Tour is out now. He was even beaten by 3 of his teammates.


You mean the ones who were trying? Take at look at GC after Stage 1 and think about the implications for team strategy.


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

asgelle said:


> You mean the ones who were trying? Take at look at GC after Stage 1 and think about the implications for team strategy.


Have you read any of his quotes? He said this is the race that he has to prove himself at. If today's result is a "motivated" effort on his part, he is in deep do do. He didn't have to beat all his teammates and screw up team strategy to show his form, but the dude didn't even come close to top 10/15 or 25.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

Mootsie said:


> If today's result is a "motivated" effort on his part ...


So now you're not sure?


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

asgelle said:


> So now you're not sure?


I am sure he's screwed unless JV knows something we don't.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

Mootsie said:


> I am sure he's screwed unless JV knows something we don't.


And isn't that exactly the point? Vaughters may well have told him to take it easy. The team strategy isn't about racing his team mates in the TT, but conserving energy in a now meaningless stage so he's fresh to help Martin over the next two days.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

Tom was saying that he was targeting the TT ....perhaps he had a mechanical? Or maybe it is because he ____________ (Insert favorite TD excuse here)


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

bigpinkt said:


> Tom was saying that he was targeting the TT ....perhaps he had a mechanical? Or maybe it is because he ____________ (Insert favorite TD excuse here)


was that said before or after the team had a guy in second place overall?


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Tommy D. has some gifts, he's just a little too delicate.


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

asgelle said:


> And isn't that exactly the point? Vaughters may well have told him to take it easy.


Thus handing him a spot in the Tour? 

I know a little bit about JV and he's doesn't let anybody slide. I could be wrong, its been known to happen, but I just don't think we'll see TD in the Tour...and that would be dissappointing on many levels.


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

den bakker said:


> was that said before or after the team had a guy in second place overall?


Trent Lowe finished right behind Dan Martin(2nd place rider). TD could have shown his form and not passed a teammate.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Mootsie said:


> Trent Lowe finished right behind Dan Martin(2nd place rider). TD could have shown his form and not passed a teammate.


Maybe he does not have to show his form. Maybe the GC for their top rider is more relevant than ego polishing.


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## kmac (Feb 13, 2007)

den bakker said:


> Maybe he does not have to show his form. Maybe the GC for their top rider is more relevant than ego polishing.


Maybe there is some hidden agenda, who knows. But at this point, I'd have to think that Tommy D does have to show some form. I don't think any good result that he'd be able to get is "ego polishing." It would just be showing that he is actually capable of a good result when the pressure is on to deliver. Has he shown anything recently to suggest that he is ready to deliver a quality result, or more realistically, some quality help to a GC rider in the Tour?

My bigger question is to myself about why I spend any time wondering about Tommy D's results, or lack thereof.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

kmac said:


> Maybe there is some hidden agenda, who knows. But at this point, I'd have to think that Tommy D does have to show some form. I don't think any good result that he'd be able to get is "ego polishing." It would just be showing that he is actually capable of a good result when the pressure is on to deliver. Has he shown anything recently to suggest that he is ready to deliver a quality result, or more realistically, some quality help to a GC rider in the Tour?
> 
> My bigger question is to myself about why I spend any time wondering about Tommy D's results, or lack thereof.


HE has shown in the past that he can "perform" in races bigger than tour de sud so that's a non issue. 
Either he has the form or he does not and that has been read off a power tap.


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2008)

Geez, we'll find out soon enough. The Tour starts in less than 3 weeks. JV makes the decision, not us.


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

AJL said:


> Geez, we'll find out soon enough. The Tour starts in less than 3 weeks. JV makes the decision, not us.


JV has spoken.


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## ECF (Aug 19, 2003)

Mootsie said:


> JV has spoken.


Details here... http://velonews.com/article/78885

Eric


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## Kestreljr (Jan 10, 2007)

ECF said:


> Details here... http://velonews.com/article/78885
> 
> Eric


How come Dave Z. didn't make the cut!?

Nevermind- he's injured. forgotz.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

ECF said:


> Details here... http://velonews.com/article/78885


Breakaways, sprints, but no real GC hopes. Oh, and Millar, for wankers' bike toss.

JSR


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## ECF (Aug 19, 2003)

Kestreljr said:


> How come Dave Z. didn't make the cut!?


I think his cracked vertebrae are healing more slowly then he'd like so he's not ready.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

I'm hoping for Martijn Maaskant to do something in the first week.


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## Cyclo-phile (Sep 22, 2005)

Maybe he'll take Danny Pate's slot in the Cascade Classic since Pate is on the Tour team.


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

Is Tommy D on suicide watch? It's obvious the guy is jinxed from ever racing the TDF. It's a shame to see such talent on such a frail body.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2008)

Julian Dean can sprint, if the team can get him up front he could win a stage.


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

Interesting response from Tommy D that adds some clarity to this post.

http://www.tomdanielson.com/pages/08/june08_changes.html


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

Mootsie said:


> Interesting response from Tommy D that adds some clarity to this post.
> 
> http://www.tomdanielson.com/pages/08/june08_changes.html


Here's an interesting quote from that post...



> I've never stopped believing that I can win the Tour


I'm not sure what to say about that. It's one thing to be confident ... but should you at least have ridden the Tour before you start believing you can win it?


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## Kestreljr (Jan 10, 2007)

Einstruzende said:


> I'm not sure what to say about that. It's one thing to be confident ... but should you at least have ridden the Tour before you start believing you can win it?


That sort of hit me as weird too- maybe not a bad visionary goal to have in your career, but at this point in his professional career, a statement like that has to be backed by an action plan to make it happen or you just look foolish imo...

Also, this quote hit me as a bad thing...


> I can confidently say I’ve never felt better in training


You have never felt better in your entire life- yet you can't make the tour squad? That is bad news for a guy who thinks he can win the thing against 200 something riders.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Kestreljr said:


> That sort of hit me as weird too- maybe not a bad visionary goal to have in your career, but at this point in his professional career, a statement like that has to be backed by an action plan to make it happen or you just look foolish imo...
> 
> Also, this quote hit me as a bad thing...
> 
> ...


Did Garmin-Chipotle get a Vuelta invite??

Please don't tell me they picked Zabriskie for the TdF.


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## Kestreljr (Jan 10, 2007)

bas said:


> Please don't tell me they picked Zabriskie for the TdF.


He is still hurt I think- some kind of back problem from a crash that isn't healing as well...


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## harlond (May 30, 2005)

bas said:


> Did Garmin-Chipotle get a Vuelta invite??


Vuelta does not appear on their calendar.


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## Aquamarinos (Mar 27, 2008)

Slippy/Garmin was not invited to the Vuelta.

TD sounds like he hast lost it...
"I've never stopped believing that I can win the Tour"
He might wan't to at least finish it once before saying things like this, pretty ridiculous imo.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

bas said:


> Did Garmin-Chipotle get a Vuelta invite??
> 
> Please don't tell me they picked Zabriskie for the TdF.


The would have had he not been hurt dude clearly knows how to work and has wons stages of all 3 grand tours and worn the yellow jersey none of those were accidents.


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*Actually...*



Aquamarinos said:


> Slippy/Garmin was not invited to the Vuelta.
> 
> TD sounds like he hast lost it...
> "I've never stopped believing that I can win the Tour"
> He might wan't to at least finish it once before saying things like this, pretty ridiculous imo.


Actually he might want to START the Tour de France before thinking that he can win it. This guy has more excuses than anyone else I've ever seen. He's been the "next big thing" since he started racing, and yet, he's got nothing. Nadda. Zilch to show for it. Don't even tell me about the Tour of Georgia win, again, that means nothing. I still think he could shine, but it's going to be in short stage races like the Dauphine, Suisse, and other such races. He won't ever even get close to winning a grand tour.


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2008)

magnolialover said:


> Actually he might want to START the Tour de France before thinking that he can win it. This guy has more excuses than anyone else I've ever seen. He's been the "next big thing" since he started racing, and yet, he's got nothing. Nadda. Zilch to show for it. Don't even tell me about the Tour of Georgia win, again, that means nothing. I still think he could shine, but it's going to be in short stage races like the Dauphine, Suisse, and other such races. He won't ever even get close to winning a grand tour.


He's done ok in a couple of Vuelta's. Still, I agree - he would do better to focus on one week races.


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## dave2pvd (Oct 15, 2007)

magnolialover said:


> He's been the "next big thing" since he started racing, and yet, he's got nothing.


Alas, we'll have to wait for a while to see exactly what Z has to offer.

As for Next Big Thing aspirations, I believe Slipsteam's NBT has to be Daniel Martin. The kid (21) is a phenomenal climber - his season last year with VC La Pomme proved that and now he's won RdSud. It would appear that he's good enough to outclimb Slipstream's designated climber, Trent Lowe.

Nice find Slipstream.


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## Gripped (Nov 27, 2002)

magnolialover said:


> Actually he might want to START the Tour de France before thinking that he can win it.


Yeah. Right now the word is he's racing the Cascade Classic with a couple other Garmin/Chipotle guys. Horner's also racing Cascade since Astana is out of the Tour and Bend is his home town.


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## fleck (Mar 25, 2005)

32and3cross said:


> The would have had he not been hurt dude clearly knows how to work and has wons stages of all 3 grand tours and worn the yellow jersey none of those were accidents.


you sure he's worn the yellow jersey? 
France=yellow
Italy = pink
Spain = gold

won stages in all 3 grand tours?

is this sarcasm?

he won stage 17 in the Vuelta in 06 (6th overall)

don't think he's won any other GT stages or EVER raced the TdF


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## Asiago (Jan 28, 2004)

*No sarcasm there chief, he's done it.*



fleck said:


> you sure he's worn the yellow jersey?
> France=yellow
> Italy = pink
> Spain = gold
> ...


No sarcasm in this from 3cross:

"The would have had he not been hurt dude clearly knows how to work and has wons stages of all 3 grand tours and worn the yellow jersey none of those were accidents."

DZ has worn the yellow jersey in the Tour and he's won a stage in all three GTs, I believe the only American to do so.

Le Tour: 2005 Stage 1
Il Giro: 2005 Stage 8
La Vuelta: 2004 Stage 11

Asiago


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## Kestreljr (Jan 10, 2007)

Asiago said:


> No sarcasm in this from 3cross:
> 
> "The would have had he not been hurt dude clearly knows how to work and has wons stages of all 3 grand tours and worn the yellow jersey none of those were accidents."
> 
> ...


This thread is about Tom Danielson, Not Big Z. Fleck was referring to Tom's 2006 Vuelta finish when he was riding for Disco, and finished 6th.


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## Asiago (Jan 28, 2004)

*right, but*



Kestreljr said:


> This thread is about Tom Danielson, Not Big Z. Fleck was referring to Tom's 2006 Vuelta finish when he was riding for Disco, and finished 6th.


he responded to a couple of comments about Dave Z.

Asiago


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## fleck (Mar 25, 2005)

Makes a bit more sence now...

topic flopping :mad2:


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*Doing OK...*



AJL said:


> He's done ok in a couple of Vuelta's. Still, I agree - he would do better to focus on one week races.


Doing OK is great, but it isn't winning.


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