# cotton vs. silk tubulars?



## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

I've ridden a lot of tubulars, but never silk. I'm thinking of splurging on some FMB tubulars. The silk versions run about $30 a tire more. Can someone edumacate me on silk vs. cotton? Is there a ride difference you can feel? Better puncture resistance? Thanks.


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## 11.4 (Mar 2, 2008)

Depending on the particular models, there's a small increase in suppleness. 

However, silk tubulars tend to be more susceptible to water degradation so they are really only dry-weather tires. The sidewalls tend to be more fragile if you are prone to sidewall damage -- a small scuff on a cotton tire can result in a bulge on silks. There's a largely apocryphal view that if you do get a flat or sidewall cut on silks, it's an explosive blowout rather than a regular flat; I've never experienced this or seen it, except for silks run at high pressure (which people used to do before they knew better, since silks maintained their suppleness up to somewhat higher pressures) or sidewall failures (see above). Sometimes the base tapes aren't glued as well to the fine fabric of a silk casing as they are to cotton casings so they occasionally peel loose earlier. Actual puncture resistance is dependent on the belt under the tread, which silks tend to dispense with in the interest of a more supple ride, plus if you cut through the tread and slightly fray the casing, it doesn't usually deteriorate on a cotton but will fray out on a silk in many instances. 

For special event tires they can be rather nice, but I wouldn't encourage them for regular racing or for training. Silks are fun, like training rides on Lightweights. But let's get real. It's a poseur kind of thing. Nobody serious is going to be training on Lightweights or doing anything but championship events on silks. Of course, if you live in San Diego, all rules are ignored.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

Speak! Memory! I haven't ridden a silk since the olden days of the seventies and early eighties, but I remember them fondly. Reliability-wise, they were about the same as cotton-cased tubulars, with the very light ones being fragile and the more robust ones (such as the Clement Paris-Roubaix and Campionato del Mondos) being remarkably robust.

They were stretchy and very easy to mount onto the rim. Ride-wise, they seemed to hug the road. They rode quietly and softly, and they seemed to have significantly better adhesion in corners. A real treat.

It was really a bummer when they became rare and expensive. Back in the days when a cotton tubular was eight bucks and a silk was twelve, it was easy to do the occasional splurge. Anyway, if you can afford them, they're worth a try. Truly luxurious...though as they say, luxury has its price.


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## AM999 (Jan 22, 2007)

Fixed said:


> I've ridden a lot of tubulars, but never silk. I'm thinking of splurging on some FMB tubulars. The silk versions run about $30 a tire more. Can someone edumacate me on silk vs. cotton? Is there a ride difference you can feel? Better puncture resistance? Thanks.


With respect to rolling resistance I think it's about a wash. My testing didn't show much difference between silk and cotton. If you can specify the tread go with the Criterium instead of the Strada. The Criterium is feathered into the sidewall while the Strada is basically a slab of tread rubber glued onto the casing with a pronounced step at the edge. Strada tread definitely rolls slower than the Criterium.

My rolling resistance results are on the Bike Tech Review site.


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## MShaw (Jun 7, 2003)

I regret that I've never tried the silk tubies. :cry May hafta fix that here soon. :nod

M


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*why?*



MShaw said:


> I regret that I've never tried the silk tubies. :cry May hafta fix that here soon. :nod
> 
> M


Got a pair of 25 mm FMB Paris Roubaix cotton tubulars. Mounted them on a set of fixed gear wheels that have Campy Pista hubs, 32 / 3x Revolution spokes, and Araya 16B Gold rims. They look pretty classic. This is for doing ultra events on my Bianchi Pista.

I was a little concerned that the tires mounted too easily. However, after the glue (Vittoria) dried, I can't peel the tires off, even when I deflate to 10 psi. 

These tires are fat. I mean literally fat. I'll have to measure, but they look more like 32 mm tires.The ride should be pretty sweet. Been too yucky out to try them just yet.


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## AM999 (Jan 22, 2007)

Fixed said:


> Got a pair of 25 mm FMB Paris Roubaix cotton tubulars. Mounted them on a set of fixed gear wheels that have Campy Pista hubs, 32 / 3x Revolution spokes, and Araya 16B Gold rims. They look pretty classic. This is for doing ultra events on my Bianchi Pista.
> 
> I was a little concerned that the tires mounted too easily. However, after the glue (Vittoria) dried, I can't peel the tires off, even when I deflate to 10 psi.
> 
> These tires are fat. I mean literally fat. I'll have to measure, but they look more like 32 mm tires.The ride should be pretty sweet. Been too yucky out to try them just yet.


Those tires are designed for the cobble stones. Does the tread wrap way up on the sidewalls like the Vittoria CG ?? The Vittoria CG is very tough but doesn't roll particularly well which you might not care about. 

Enjoy


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*no*



AM999 said:


> Those tires are designed for the cobble stones. Does the tread wrap way up on the sidewalls like the Vittoria CG ?? The Vittoria CG is very tough but doesn't roll particularly well which you might not care about.
> 
> Enjoy


No, they look just like any other tubular, but just kind of fat. I think there is a little extra flat protection compared to some, which I want for double centuries and longer ultra events on all kinds of surfaces. The sidewalls were very flexible while deflated, if that means anything. There is also a Paris Robaix Pro, which might be different.


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## AM999 (Jan 22, 2007)

Fixed said:


> No, they look just like any other tubular, but just kind of fat. I think there is a little extra flat protection compared to some, which I want for double centuries and longer ultra events on all kinds of surfaces. The sidewalls were very flexible while deflated, if that means anything. There is also a Paris Robaix Pro, which might be different.


OK - I didn't realize that there were 2 models. Maybe the Pro has the wrap around tread or not ?? The FMB tires are hand made so the tread is purchased by Francois and glued to the casing. Very flexible sidewalls are good for rolling resistance but a thick and stiff tread can cancel out that advantage. Sounds like you are more interested in flat protection than Crr ?? If they are that fat they won't be the most aero as well.

I added a couple of the FMB track tires with latex tread and silk casings. IIRC the price was ~ $200 each. Those things were like a wet noodle hanging on a coat rack - very flexible. I didn't test them but I'd guess the Crr would be extremely low. Only good on very smooth indoor wood tracks however.

They should be comfortable - hope they work out well. My wife did 4 Doubles this year in CA. Are you in CA by chance ??


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## AM999 (Jan 22, 2007)

Fixed said:


> No, they look just like any other tubular, but just kind of fat. I think there is a little extra flat protection compared to some, which I want for double centuries and longer ultra events on all kinds of surfaces. The sidewalls were very flexible while deflated, if that means anything. There is also a Paris Robaix Pro, which might be different.


I have to apologize - I forgot that you are from the Fresno area. Possibly you may have done some of the Doubles that my wife rode including both the Solvang Doubles - spring and fall. She also did Davis and Knoxville.


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*yup*

Yup, Fresno. I've done most of the doubles in California, and many on fixed gear. The whole point of using the tubulars is to find something that is both light and won't beat me up as bad. Riding these things fixed is hard enough, so I'm looking for every bit of help I can get. Comfort is not the top priority, but it starts to have a real effect 150 miles into these things, especially when your hands get worn out from standing all the way up 13k' of climbing. 



AM999 said:


> OK - I didn't realize that there were 2 models. Maybe the Pro has the wrap around tread or not ?? The FMB tires are hand made so the tread is purchased by Francois and glued to the casing. Very flexible sidewalls are good for rolling resistance but a thick and stiff tread can cancel out that advantage. Sounds like you are more interested in flat protection than Crr ?? If they are that fat they won't be the most aero as well.
> 
> I added a couple of the FMB track tires with latex tread and silk casings. IIRC the price was ~ $200 each. Those things were like a wet noodle hanging on a coat rack - very flexible. I didn't test them but I'd guess the Crr would be extremely low. Only good on very smooth indoor wood tracks however.
> 
> They should be comfortable - hope they work out well. My wife did 4 Doubles this year in CA. Are you in CA by chance ??


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