# Specialized NON SCS hanger is a scam,DON'T BUY IT !!



## Devastazione

Shame on Specialized for hustling money from it's customers !! 

The NON SCS hangers that supposedly allow you to use a non SCS wheelset on your Diverge or Crux is a plain and simple SCAM !!


Specialized,you suck !!!!


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## KonaSS

Can you give some more details on your experience?


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## Devastazione

Simply put : 

Specialized says " you can run any non SCS hub if you buy our non SCS hanger,it's out now,buy one !! " well,that is not true.

First of all it's been reported that even with a non SCS hanger you will incur in the followings :

1) your TA will not screw in all the way till the end of the threads,it will stop halfway there. Someone reported it on the Specialized helpdesk,Specialized folks asked a detailed foto report about it ( I've seen the picture on FB and it's quite scary )and the same person who sent the pictures in did not receive any reply from Specialized...I bet Specialized engineers are all in a big "oooops...did not see that coming".

2) Managed to find a non SCS hanger ( paid 10£ for it..) and last night I was ready to drop 800 Euro for a set of Mavic Ksyrium allroads. Well it turned out that Mavic does not provide an 12mm TA adapter for rear wheel and I'm ok with that,but the reason is if you want to go 12 TA you just can't,you have to go back to a QR,at least with Mavic. Specialized includes a standard QR hanger with the Specialized kit,they are aware of the thing but they want you to squeeze more money with a non SCS hanger. 

3) let's say Mavic would provide a 12mm TA endcap but guess what ? Even in that scenario and with a non SCS hanger in place the wheel would be off centered by 2.5 mm !


Now,let's try to be a bit on the understanding side of the story. Disc brakes on road bikes are still in the womb phase,I know that,but screwing up people with a 10£ worth of rear hanger ? C'mon you greedy bastids.
I love my Diverge,I am a big Specialized fanboy. They are the best bikes out there to me,but for this one too much is too much,seriously...
Just ordered a set of hand built Pacenti wheels from the UK with a Hope SCS hubs. Total cost including shipping ? 802 Euro. Sorry Specialized,you can keep your SCS Rovals for this one. Yeah and the hell with you too...


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## steelisreal2

*Specialized SCS Issues, not all bad*

Many people have been caught out with the Specialized propriety SCS rear end on Crux and Diverge thru axle bikes, including myself.

I purchased an S-Work Crux frameset and a couple of weeks later discovered the whole SCS issue. I quickly ordered a set of Roval Control SL CX - Centrelock (SCS) Wheelset (these were shipped with Diverge Pro bikes).
In February, 25 weeks later when they both turned up the frame was sweet! The wheelset had been discontinued and Roval Control SL (SCS) with 6 bolt were delivered.
Not wanting to run 160mm rotors, I ended up custom building a non-SCS set, with a replacement hanger from Specialized NZ.








The Non-SCS Hanger is part number #S162600004. The allows you to use a standard 12x135mm hub.








The hubs are DT Swiss 240S Centrelock with 12x135mm end caps, the end caps need to be purchased separately as hub is supplied with 12x142mm. 








The final solution runs mint.


There looks to be another curve ball, 2017 Specialized Crux 12x142mm









The carbon frame was constructed from our FACT 10r carbon fiber that puts performance first without breaking the bank. It retains all of the rigidity and responsiveness required of 'cross racing and to promote ride quality, it's also equipped with a thru-axle design with 142mm rear spacing for all wheel compatibility.

https://thebikefactory.co.uk/product/96071/specialized-crux-pro-disc-frameset-2017/


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## TmB123

Just curious, is your wheel centered in the dropouts with this setup?


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## steelisreal2

TmB123 said:


> Just curious, is your wheel centered in the dropouts with this setup?


Wheel is centered (dished) correctly, the wheel was built specifically for use with the Non-SCS hanger and I allowed for the minimal offset. Almost got caught out though.


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## TmB123

Ah right, that was my concern for people using a normal wheel with the non SCS hanger - that it wont be centered, but can't quite get my head around it. I'm getting a second set of wheels built up for mine, but it is on a Hope SCS hub with Pacenti SL25 rims. I already have the newer 6 bolt Roval Control SCS wheels on my Diverge Pro.


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## MMsRepBike

Poor folks. Screwed by the big S again.

You know they've ditched SCS now right? The new Crux and such all come with Shimano standard 142x12.

Might be best to just sell your SCS bikes now to unknowing folk and get a new one with a proper specced frame/rear triangle.


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## TmB123

Have they ditched it?
Read a week or two ago that the 2017 Diverge is still SCS.


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## Hnefi

I am going through this whole SCS disaster atm, and it seems like even Specialized doesn't know what they're talking about... I have a 2017 Diverge DSW which is their premium E5 aluminum frame, same material as the SWorks Allez, and they finally sent me a reply to my email.

It reads: "La roue arrière Axis Elite est compatible avec une transmission de 11 vitesses. Vous pouvez retrouver ici le guide de compatibilité pour le système SCS"

Or if you prefer in English: "The rear Axis Elite wheel is compatible with an 11 speed transmission. You can download the compatibility guide for SCS wheels here" http://service.specialized.com/collateral/ownersguide/new/assets/pdf/0000040845.pdf

However, if you look at the diagrams in that document, it clearly shows that an SCS hanger is recessed 2.5mm inboard, to make up for the fact that the hub's chainline is 2.5mm inboard as well. I haven't taken the RDH off my bike (too busy riding it!) but it is ARROW straight and has no offset at all. It looks much more like the one labelled "standard 130mm road chainline". My LBS is also clueless as to which system I am actually riding which really bothers me. Had I known this when buying the bike, I would have thought a LOT more about it.

Regardless I am happy they confirmed its 11 speed compatible, which was going to be my first upgrade. Ultegra with hydro discs after the winter season.


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## 11spd

Hnefi said:


> I am going through this whole SCS disaster atm, and it seems like even Specialized doesn't know what they're talking about... I have a 2017 Diverge DSW which is their premium E5 aluminum frame, same material as the SWorks Allez, and they finally sent me a reply to my email.
> 
> It reads: "La roue arrière Axis Elite est compatible avec une transmission de 11 vitesses. Vous pouvez retrouver ici le guide de compatibilité pour le système SCS"
> 
> Or if you prefer in English: "The rear Axis Elite wheel is compatible with an 11 speed transmission. You can download the compatibility guide for SCS wheels here" http://service.specialized.com/collateral/ownersguide/new/assets/pdf/0000040845.pdf
> 
> However, if you look at the diagrams in that document, it clearly shows that an SCS hanger is recessed 2.5mm inboard, to make up for the fact that the hub's chainline is 2.5mm inboard as well. I haven't taken the RDH off my bike (too busy riding it!) but it is ARROW straight and has no offset at all. It looks much more like the one labelled "standard 130mm road chainline". My LBS is also clueless as to which system I am actually riding which really bothers me. Had I known this when buying the bike, I would have thought a LOT more about it.
> 
> Regardless I am happy they confirmed its 11 speed compatible, which was going to be my first upgrade. Ultegra with hydro discs after the winter season.


Come on bro, this ain't rocket science. You have a straight hanger and I presume 10s cassette that came on the bike so you have a spacer in there so you can fit a 11s cassette. 

Why don't you take the rear wheel off and measure your rear dropout spacing? That will tell you what you have. You don't have SCS if your rear hanger isn't offset.

PS: and industry insiders know plain and simple what Spesh did when then invented SCS. They trumped up an 'excuse' to create a proprietary wheelset to keep sales directed toward their wheels with proprietary hub for the so called benefit of chainline when running extreme X-chained. An excuse to sell more product when they shot themselves in the proverbial foot by alienating sales for knowledgeable buyers who will steer clear of this marketing ruse so they can run more conventional disk wheelsets. Its BS, a PITA and more about profit for big S than any actual advantage for typical riding and has somewhat backfired on them by alienating sales and rightly so....smart buyers won't buy a SCS bike because it limits wheel selection. It is the wheel version of BB30...lol.


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## kibsen

I use the non SCS d. hanger on my crux 2016 with non SCS wheels wo any problems
Before I got the no SCS hanger I just replaced the Driveside 12x135 with a 12x142 adapter which worked as well


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## 11spd

kibsen said:


> I use the non SCS d. hanger on my crux 2016 with non SCS wheels wo any problems
> Before I got the no SCS hanger I just replaced the Driveside 12x135 with a 12x142 adapter which worked as well


Maybe what Spesh ended up doing to accomplish the same end.


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## dcorn

So literally all it takes is a new DH and I can run any wheels on my Crux? 

I'll probably just end up buying a set of Axis or Roval wheels anyway.


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## kibsen

Right!
Or buy 12x142 endcaps an replace the driveside endcap.

Btw. The axis 4.0 scs disc wheels are crap, most complains are due to loose spokes.



dcorn said:


> So literally all it takes is a new DH and I can run any wheels on my Crux?
> 
> I'll probably just end up buying a set of Axis or Roval wheels anyway.


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## bootsie_cat

How about using this?
Specialized SCS Kit for Diverge, Roubaix, Tarmac, Crux — NEXT Cycling


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## masont

11spd said:


> Come on bro, this ain't rocket science. You have a straight hanger and I presume 10s cassette that came on the bike so you have a spacer in there so you can fit a 11s cassette.
> 
> Why don't you take the rear wheel off and measure your rear dropout spacing? That will tell you what you have. You don't have SCS if your rear hanger isn't offset.
> 
> PS: and industry insiders know plain and simple what Spesh did when then invented SCS. They trumped up an 'excuse' to create a proprietary wheelset to keep sales directed toward their wheels with proprietary hub for the so called benefit of chainline when running extreme X-chained. An excuse to sell more product when they shot themselves in the proverbial foot by alienating sales for knowledgeable buyers who will steer clear of this marketing ruse so they can run more conventional disk wheelsets. Its BS, a PITA and more about profit for big S than any actual advantage for typical riding and has somewhat backfired on them by alienating sales and rightly so....smart buyers won't buy a SCS bike because it limits wheel selection. It is the wheel version of BB30...lol.


No, that isn't actually it at all.

Disc brakes on road bikes are in their infancy, and Specialized had a system they thought was superior to 142x12. They expected others to adopt it, didn't charge a dime to anybody who wanted to use it, and they just got it wrong. 

Also, they didn't have SCS aftermarket wheels available until some time after the Diverge was introduced. If it was a scam to sell more wheels, don't you think they'd have, you know, had wheels to sell from the jump?

The whole SCS thing has been a cluster, but you need to slow down with the conspiracy theory BS you're making up out of thin air. 

Also, since you mention "industry insiders" - do you actually know anyone you'd consider to be one?


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## kibsen

Can't see the problem.
There are several working solutions to fit a non SCS wheelset.
2017 frames are 12x142 anyway

Move on ;o)


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## 11spd

masont said:


> No, that isn't actually it at all.
> 
> Disc brakes on road bikes are in their infancy, and Specialized had a system they thought was superior to 142x12. They expected others to adopt it, didn't charge a dime to anybody who wanted to use it, and they just got it wrong.
> 
> Also, they didn't have SCS aftermarket wheels available until some time after the Diverge was introduced. If it was a scam to sell more wheels, don't you think they'd have, you know, had wheels to sell from the jump?
> 
> The whole SCS thing has been a cluster, but you need to slow down with the conspiracy theory BS you're making up out of thin air.
> 
> Also, since you mention "industry insiders" - do you actually know anyone you'd consider to be one?


Conspiracy theory? Unless you live under a rock...presuming you don't, you have to be as blind as a bat to not see what's at play. Wake up brother. 

Same goes for the Praxis thread you weighed in on. Only reason why Praxis put that 28mm step in their crank is to sell their companion BB which is the only BB that work with their crank. Is that a conspiracy theory also? How about Campy with their designs used to extoll more money from the public? Their 112mm single BCD on otherwise common 110mm compact crank so you only buy their chainrings?...even though this can be hacked and I have and do. 

Campy is notorious for this....from their proprietary chain tool to their crank extraction tool when the rest of the industry sells cranks that are self extracting. The whole industry has morphed to 'integration' to sell only their components with their bikes. This now even includes stems and integrated handlebars which can and are hacked by racers who don't want to play by these rules. Consumers have been stuck with crappy seat post clamps being hemmed into proprietary seat posts for well over a decade....bikes without a generic seat post. As to BB's OE's skirt the edge of customer disdain they cross more than they don't under the marketing guise of exclusivity including the glut of non value added BB's out there which has spawned a cottage industry of workarounds in the aftermarket. This even portends to rear cassette and freebodies unlike the 'screw up' that effectively commonized 11s spacing for Campy, Shimano and Sram. 

Reality is, smart bike guys see SCS for what it is, a marketing ruse that limited wheel selection and to many...not the average dumb Spesh fanboy who runs wheels off the rack, it matters and created an outcry in the industry and why many bought elsewhere. Respectfully, you are flat wrong about this.


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## 1Butcher

Of course, none of these designs could be caused by patents.:idea: 

I'm certain when Campagnolo and Shimano patented their electric shifting, that made it tough for Sram to come up with theirs. When Sram patented there wireless shifting, that kinda screwed FSA group.

I usually see small differences with how things work due to patents, not to con the average buyer to be locked into the company's products. Even if that is true, there is nothing wrong with it either.


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## 11spd

1Butcher said:


> Of course, none of these designs could be caused by patents.:idea:
> 
> I'm certain when Campagnolo and Shimano patented their electric shifting, that made it tough for Sram to come up with theirs. When Sram patented there wireless shifting, that kinda screwed FSA group.
> 
> I usually see small differences with how things work due to patents, not to con the average buyer to be locked into the company's products. Even if that is true, there is nothing wrong with it either.


Chicken and egg Butcher. Why do patents exist? To sell proprietary product. Now, sometimes mfr's come up with a true innovation with intellectual property worth protecting. R&D isn't free nor should be. That isn't what we have here. The aftermarket has been slow to break into the SCS market because they don't see ROI relative to tooling investment due to limited demand/sales volume. But there are plenty of people who want to put a KMC chain on a Campy bike because of almost the same performance for a lower cost without a chain tool. And guys who want to put a Ritchey stem and handlebar of their choice on a new VIAS to save a boat load of money and not have to route cables through the stem, or guys like me that prefer to run a Shimano wheelset with Ultegra 11s cassette on a Campy 11s bike...or even a Shimano crank on an occasional Campy bike. When not hemmed into a proprietary corner, good to have freedom to run components you prefer, like tires and saddles and pedals and bike computers and a bunch of stuff that isn't proprietary. The public maybe a bit dumb but they aren't entirely stupid. Specialized screwed the pooch with SCS and they realized it. They did the same with their narrow version of PF30 for their top of the line race bike, the S-works. They put the worst BB on their best bike if you want irony and every industry is dripping in it. Just like how BMW bends over rich guys with the E-65. Why? Because they can and laugh all the way to the bank. It almost doesn't matter how much of it they get right.


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## masont

11spd said:


> Conspiracy theory? Unless you live under a rock...presuming you don't, you have to be as blind as a bat to not see what's at play. Wake up brother.
> 
> Same goes for the Praxis thread you weighed in on. Only reason why Praxis put that 28mm step in their crank is to sell their companion BB which is the only BB that work with their crank. Is that a conspiracy theory also? How about Campy with their designs used to extoll more money from the public? Their 112mm single BCD on otherwise common 110mm compact crank so you only buy their chainrings?...even though this can be hacked and I have and do.
> 
> Campy is notorious for this....from their proprietary chain tool to their crank extraction tool when the rest of the industry sells cranks that are self extracting. The whole industry has morphed to 'integration' to sell only their components with their bikes. This now even includes stems and integrated handlebars which can and are hacked by racers who don't want to play by these rules. Consumers have been stuck with crappy seat post clamps being hemmed into proprietary seat posts for well over a decade....bikes without a generic seat post. As to BB's OE's skirt the edge of customer disdain they cross more than they don't under the marketing guise of exclusivity including the glut of non value added BB's out there which has spawned a cottage industry of workarounds in the aftermarket. This even portends to rear cassette and freebodies unlike the 'screw up' that effectively commonized 11s spacing for Campy, Shimano and Sram.
> 
> Reality is, smart bike guys see SCS for what it is, a marketing ruse that limited wheel selection and to many...not the average dumb Spesh fanboy who runs wheels off the rack, it matters and created an outcry in the industry and why many bought elsewhere. Respectfully, you are flat wrong about this.


The last time I was at Morgan Hill the team responsible for making these decisions took a dozen or so of us into a room and asked us our opinion about various parts spec for 2017 product. I spent about 10 minutes asking them about SCS. This was after they had decided to move away from it and they were able to be very candid, as they had realized it was a mistake and moved on. 

They didn't do it because it is a "marketing ruse." You can believe whatever you want, but you are wrong. I'm not the "average dumb Spech fanboy" and I assembled the wheels on my bike myself, they aren't pre-built. You seem to consider yourself enlightened, but from the point of view of someone who is actually in the industry and has been in the building with the people behind SCS, you look like you're just making stuff up because it makes you feel smart.


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## 11spd

masont said:


> The last time I was at Morgan Hill the team responsible for making these decisions took a dozen or so of us into a room and asked us our opinion about various parts spec for 2017 product. I spent about 10 minutes asking them about SCS. This was after they had decided to move away from it and they were able to be very candid, as they had realized it was a mistake and moved on.
> 
> They didn't do it because it is a "marketing ruse." You can believe whatever you want, but you are wrong. I'm not the "average dumb Spech fanboy" and I assembled the wheels on my bike myself, they aren't pre-built. You seem to consider yourself enlightened, but from the point of view of someone who is actually in the industry and has been in the building with the people behind SCS, you look like you're just making stuff up because it makes you feel smart.


Well, I am smart...actually very smart.  Sorry if you drink the koolaid. If you aren't a Spesh insider, they could give a rip about your opinion. Even within the Spesh hierarchy there will be staunch disagreement. 

Please review why you believe Spesh admitted SCS was a mistake after sinking thousands of dollars into it? I mean for 1-2 gear selections and related chainlines, it makes physical sense. So why would Spesh invest so much money, release it for production and then pull the plug on it? You don't think offsetting chain line by 2.5mm due to wider dropout spacing has merit?


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## 1Butcher

I like chickens and eggs, but you are correct, what came first? 

That's what I was talking about. Did they design it because they could? Or did they copy someone, but could not make an exact copy, so they change enough things around to prevent patent issues. Once they do that, it goes to the marketing team to spin it to make it sound like it's better than sliced bread.

I do not know, but I do believe weird issues like this could be because of other patents. I also believe that people make mistakes and until the product is made, they really do not know how it will work or if the public will even accept it. It's common practice that people do not make mistakes so it goes to say corporations do not make mistakes either. For example, I've never seen a mechanic make a mistake or one that will admit to it.


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## 11spd

1Butcher said:


> I like chickens and eggs, but you are correct, what came first?
> 
> That's what I was talking about. Did they design it because they could? Or did they copy someone, but could not make an exact copy, so they change enough things around to prevent patent issues. Once they do that, it goes to the marketing team to spin it to make it sound like it's better than sliced bread.
> 
> I do not know, but I do believe weird issues like this could be because of other patents. I also believe that people make mistakes and until the product is made, they really do not know how it will work or if the public will even accept it. It's common practice that people do not make mistakes so it goes to say corporations do not make mistakes either. For example, I've never seen a mechanic make a mistake or one that will admit to it.


Specialized didn't make a technical mistake with SCS. It is a fundamental precept of chainline when you widen the dropout. They over reached on customer acceptance. SCS has been an impediment to sale of their bikes versus promoting sales. This is because the so called benefit of SCS is modest compared to the huge PITA to owners who want to upgrade to a higher spec wheelset. The aftermarket did't rally behind it any more than Shimano did for changing their DA crankset to mount to BB30. They don't buy it. The customer isn't buying it either. It sucks compared to offering a true benefit because even average riders don't run extreme X-chain for long.
Make no mistake why Specialized did it. It was to keep their wheelsets proprietary and direct their customers toward their high end Roval wheels which aren't as good as equally priced wheels in the market place. People figure it out eventually and Specialized thought they were standing on a nickel with SCS and instead ended up giving up a nickel by lost sales and why they pulled the plug. Greed and over reach.


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## MMsRepBike

The way I see it is that they think they're smart. They think they're smarter than the rest, but in reality they're morons.

They thought they had the answer and they thought the whole industry would just follow them with their new "open standard" they were offering.

They thought they had the answer with the brakes and general design of the new Venge too. They thought they were just so smart, putting v-brakes where they've never been put before and calling them better than Dura-Ace in their marketing. So aero, so smart, so innovative. SCS is so stiff, so agile, so innovative.

In reality, the "engineers" at Specialized are really just the same as little boys tinkering with things they don't understand in their basement. Unfortunately they're selling this crap to unwitting cyclists who are paying the price.


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## 11spd

MMsRepBike said:


> The way I see it is that they think they're smart. They think they're smarter than the rest, but in reality they're morons.
> 
> They thought they had the answer and they thought the whole industry would just follow them with their new "open standard" they were offering.
> 
> They thought they had the answer with the brakes and general design of the new Venge too. They thought they were just so smart, putting v-brakes where they've never been put before and calling them better than Dura-Ace in their marketing. So aero, so smart, so innovative. SCS is so stiff, so agile, so innovative.
> 
> In reality, the "engineers" at Specialized are really just the same as little boys tinkering with things they don't understand in their basement. Unfortunately they're selling this crap to unwitting cyclists who are paying the price.


 Caveat Emptor comes to mind. Don’t throw all the engineers under the bus even though some deserve to be  The engineers are only trying to create a better mousetrap. Upper management however has other plans…like how to maximize profit. Specialized makes some truly wonderful product…framesets, saddles, shoes etc. But they also have some dirty secrets woven in that have been discussed in this thread. Buyer beware.
Uninformed guys get bent over. Look before you leap.


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## dcorn

MMsRepBike said:


> The way I see it is that they think they're smart. They think they're smarter than the rest, but in reality they're morons.
> 
> They thought they had the answer and they thought the whole industry would just follow them with their new "open standard" they were offering.
> 
> They thought they had the answer with the brakes and general design of the new Venge too. They thought they were just so smart, putting v-brakes where they've never been put before and calling them better than Dura-Ace in their marketing. So aero, so smart, so innovative. SCS is so stiff, so agile, so innovative.
> 
> In reality, the "engineers" at Specialized are really just the same as little boys tinkering with things they don't understand in their basement. Unfortunately they're selling this crap to unwitting cyclists who are paying the price.


New 'standards' pop up in cycling every year, but just because specialized introduced this one, all of a sudden it's stupid? 

And you being some random dude on an internet forum are supposedly smarter than a team of engineers at a major manufacturer that has been making bikes for decades? Sure dude.


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## masont

dcorn said:


> New 'standards' pop up in cycling every year, but just because specialized introduced this one, all of a sudden it's stupid?
> 
> And you being some random dude on an internet forum are supposedly smarter than a team of engineers at a major manufacturer that has been making bikes for decades? Sure dude.


This should be copied and pasted into about half of the threads on the site


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## 11spd

masont said:


> This should be copied and pasted into about half of the threads on the site


The problem is, the average consumer isn't smart enough to determine if its good or bad. They buy the marketing and drink the koolaid and then they wake up to SCS or Spesh's narrow version of PF30 or flexy chain rings or hidden seat binders that fall into the seat tube or Roval wheels which aren't as good as aftermarket competitors. They didn't get SL3 internal cable routing entry port angles correct either. They didn't get the stack height right on the SL3 steerer dust cover either...needs a shim to rotate freely.

Point is, in spite of them making great bikes like all good companies, they get a fair amount wrong...like Apple, like Samsung, like BMW as well and nothing wrong with discussing pros and cons on the internet.

Make no mistake about SCS. Spesh did it because it would allow them to sell more wheelsets or upgrade to their Roval SCS wheelset only versus other pricey aftermarket carbon wheelsets.. The decision to release SCS is about profit. Most don't run X-chain enough to make SCS a bonafide benefit deviating from industry standard of wheel spacing. The aftermarket wheel and hub industry agree SCS was a wild goose chase and why they didn't tool up.


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## TmB123

To be honest, at this point in time from what I can tell this whole SCS thing seems to be a bit of a non issue. 
Many users on the Diverge FB group have simply changed out the RD hanger and thrown whatever aftermarket wheels in that they want and haven't reported any drivetrain issues. Nobody has reported wheels out of centre (my understanding was that a wheel would need to be redished to accomodate the 2.5mm difference in spacing) but it doesn't seem to be an issue nor does any chain line and shifting issues.


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## TricrossRich

TmB123 said:


> To be honest, at this point in time from what I can tell this whole SCS thing seems to be a bit of a non issue.
> Many users on the Diverge FB group have simply changed out the RD hanger and thrown whatever aftermarket wheels in that they want and haven't reported any drivetrain issues. Nobody has reported wheels out of centre (my understanding was that a wheel would need to be redished to accomodate the 2.5mm difference in spacing) but it doesn't seem to be an issue nor does any chain line and shifting issues.


but what fun is that? As far as I'm concerned, Specialized is the reason for Trump/Clinton in 2016. hahahaha


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## 11spd

TricrossRich said:


> but what fun is that? As far as I'm concerned, Specialized is the reason for Trump/Clinton in 2016. hahahaha


Putting a finer point on it, Obama is the reason that Trump got elected and Clinton got what she deserved...for offering nothing to the America people all while filling her pockets with foreign money antithetical to our best interest.


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## dcorn

TmB123 said:


> To be honest, at this point in time from what I can tell this whole SCS thing seems to be a bit of a non issue.
> Many users on the Diverge FB group have simply changed out the RD hanger and thrown whatever aftermarket wheels in that they want and haven't reported any drivetrain issues. Nobody has reported wheels out of centre (my understanding was that a wheel would need to be redished to accomodate the 2.5mm difference in spacing) but it doesn't seem to be an issue nor does any chain line and shifting issues.


See, this is what I want to hear. They designed a different way to do things and hoped the aftermarket would come through making some SCS hubs. Nobody did, so they gave the consumer a way to stop *****ing and use the wheels they already had. People still *****ed and that's how this thread got started.


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## TmB123

dcorn said:


> See, this is what I want to hear. They designed a different way to do things and hoped the aftermarket would come through making some SCS hubs. Nobody did, so they gave the consumer a way to stop *****ing and use the wheels they already had. People still *****ed and that's how this thread got started.


Back when this thread was started there did seem to be a fairly major drama with the unknown compatibility of SCS, there were a few posts around on the net of people custom fabricating end caps and hangers etc - at that time both the OP and myself bought custom built wheels (Pacenti SL25 with Hope SCS hubs) and I've been very happy with them. Then a few people started surfacing that just said WTF and gave the non SCS hanger a go (also some from Wheels Manufacturing) and whatever wheels they wanted and behold the world did not stop turning. So as time has gone on, the situation has become clearer that there is a workable solution and Specialized hasn't actually bent everyone over the table as much as was first thought, whether it is a mm perfect solution I don't know, even some wheel manufacturers we have had contact with over that time still weren't sure, but it all seems to work ok and that's the main thing.


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## 11spd

TmB123 said:


> Back when this thread was started there did seem to be a fairly major drama with the unknown compatibility of SCS, there were a few posts around on the net of people custom fabricating end caps and hangers etc - at that time both the OP and myself bought custom built wheels (Pacenti SL25 with Hope SCS hubs) and I've been very happy with them. Then a few people started surfacing that just said WTF and gave the non SCS hanger a go (also some from Wheels Manufacturing) and whatever wheels they wanted and behold the world did not stop turning. So as time has gone on, the situation has become clearer that there is a workable solution and Specialized hasn't actually bent everyone over the table as much as was first thought, whether it is a mm perfect solution I don't know, even some wheel manufacturers we have had contact with over that time still weren't sure, but it all seems to work ok and that's the main thing.


Well stated. And if no downside to the std. hanger with aftermarket wheelset, now that this issue has been sorted thru, owners of SCS bikes have more and not less options. It seems in the early days that thru axle versus std axle was also part of the confusion. Maybe that is cleared up now too. 

It would be good to hear from someone that has owned both hanger combo's on the same bike who can report any shifting differences. Unless running extreme cross chained, I don't see how SCS is an advantage.

Maybe all's well that ends well.


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## TricrossRich

11spd said:


> Well stated. And if no downside to the std. hanger with aftermarket wheelset, now that this issue has been sorted thru, owners of SCS bikes have more and not less options. It seems in the early days that thru axle versus std axle was also part of the confusion. Maybe that is cleared up now too.
> 
> It would be good to hear from someone that has owned both hanger combo's on the same bike who can report any shifting differences. Unless running extreme cross chained, I don't see how SCS is an advantage.
> 
> Maybe all's well that ends well.


agreed...


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## TmB123

Okaaay, so things may not be as sweet as I thought, NEXT wheels has just put out this blog post. Seems Aluminium SCS frames are ok with the swap of a hanger, the Carbon framed SCS bikes aren't as simple it would seem, ffs, now, where was that table...

SCS FAQ - READ THIS FIRST (then email me) ? NEXT Cycling


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## SNS1938

11spd said:


> Specialized didn't make a technical mistake with SCS. It is a fundamental precept of chainline when you widen the dropout. They over reached on customer acceptance. SCS has been an impediment to sale of their bikes versus promoting sales. This is because the so called benefit of SCS is modest compared to the huge PITA to owners who want to upgrade to a higher spec wheelset. The aftermarket did't rally behind it any more than Shimano did for changing their DA crankset to mount to BB30. They don't buy it. The customer isn't buying it either. It sucks compared to offering a true benefit because even average riders don't run extreme X-chain for long.
> Make no mistake why Specialized did it. It was to keep their wheelsets proprietary and direct their customers toward their high end Roval wheels which aren't as good as equally priced wheels in the market place. People figure it out eventually and Specialized thought they were standing on a nickel with SCS and instead ended up giving up a nickel by lost sales and why they pulled the plug. Greed and over reach.


I'm mostly in agreement with your point of view. SCS is a better solution to a problem that people didn't really realize they had. I don't know if Specialized was trying to push their own wheels though, as they seemed to have almost no stock of wheels when the first 2016 SCS Crux's came out, and they offered free licensing of SCS to hub and wheel manufacturers. I have read of many people being told the only wheels available for the Crux's were $2000 specialized carbons, but I don't think they had lots and lots of them ready to sell, it was more that they had some, and very few people bought them, even when pushed towards them by the lack of cheaper (aftermarket or lower spec) SCS wheels

I just turned down a 2016 year end deal on an SCS Crux, preferring to wait for a 2017 with ''standard'' 142x12 drops, as although my chain line isn't as good, I'm sure I'll never notice, but I will notice that I can buy just about any wheel .. 

A real shame that more of the industry didn't jump on SCS, lets just hope that we don't see SCS2 out in two years for a second attempt. I'd really like 142x12 to be the standard for as long as 130 QR was the standard.


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## 11spd

SNS1938 said:


> I'm mostly in agreement with your point of view. *SCS is a better solution to a problem that people didn't really realize they had*. I don't know if Specialized was trying to push their own wheels though, as they seemed to have almost no stock of wheels when the first 2016 SCS Crux's came out, and they offered free licensing of SCS to hub and wheel manufacturers. I have read of many people being told the only wheels available for the Crux's were $2000 specialized carbons, but I don't think they had lots and lots of them ready to sell, it was more that they had some, and very few people bought them, even when pushed towards them by the lack of cheaper (aftermarket or lower spec) SCS wheels
> 
> I just turned down a 2016 year end deal on an SCS Crux, preferring to wait for a 2017 with ''standard'' 142x12 drops, as although my chain line isn't as good, I'm sure I'll never notice, but I will notice that I can buy just about any wheel ..
> 
> A real shame that more of the industry didn't jump on SCS, lets just hope that we don't see SCS2 out in two years for a second attempt. I'd really like 142x12 to be the standard for as long as 130 QR was the standard.


In bold you wrote is the best that it can be said I believe. Spot on. BB30 and certainly proprietary (narrow) Spesh PF30 come to mind. Think about what Spesh did with their so called carbon OSBB. 
They needlessly created a narrow version of weak industry standard that came about for two reasons:


A frameset could be reported at a lower weight with 46mm ID hole through the BB 
A cheaper frame to manufacture because all bushings are separate and not integral to the frame. 
The fact that it performed like $h!t didn’t seem to stop them from releasing it. Also Spesh could end up selling all their sacrificial wider delrin bushings to bring overall BB width back to 68mm industry standard. They did this to ‘up’ sell the Sworks frameset when the reality is, PF30 has always been a step backward from BB30 and why Spesh finally relented and released recent Sworks bikes all as BB30. And who among us wouldn’t prefer English threaded BSA to either? Nobody I know that has owned a race bike or worked on them.

So that is how Specialized and many others like Cannondale and certainly Trek and Cervelo and Scott with wide BB shells and countless others roll. And..then there is Pinarello with their incomparable Dogma F8 and they went back to 68mm BSA a year or two ago. So hopefully the migration back will continue. I believe the new Roubaixs are BSA as well.

As to SCS, I believe the whole issue of backward compatibility is shrouded in mystery due to 12mm thru axle which many if not most prefer especially on a gravel style bike like the Diverge SCS..and arguably others including the hybrid-esque Roubaix which is happy on choppy paved roads. It seems as though thru axle will be a companion to disk brakes which are becoming more ubiquitous and honestly since I live in flatish country I don’t want. Mostly I don’t want them for maintenance honestly…especially hydraulics. Shimano caliper brakes are simply awesome and what I ride even on Campy bikes.

But yes as with many attempts to create an industry standard, no the industry hasn’t budged on SCS even though many would concede SCS is really correct if going wider in the back from a centered chainline. But old standards die hard as does old tooling take a while to die and be replaced…it takes capital to invest in new tooling and of course demand has to be there to support it.

Bike companies need a reason for you to buy their bike. If they can sell ‘their proprietary’ parts which may include a wheelset, then its win win for them unless customers smell a rat and most here…and we are bike nuts…most don’t know much about the $6K bikes they buy…lets face it and some that buy expensive bikes in fairness can drop many of us as well…strong riders, just not very tech savy.

But I believe SCS came into being because Spesh thought it was technically correct, they could market it as a reason to sell more bikes and when consumers rolled the bike out of the showroom and after 6 months or so thought, gee, I need a light carbon wheelset to transform me into superman aka ‘buy game’…that only game in town would be a Roval wheelset with SCS spacing at about $2K which of course has little to do with a rider being much faster…or fractionally. Some that have read reviews on Roval wheels know the aftermarket has better wheels and hubs available for the same money or less and therefore bike guys in the know don't want to be limited when there are some truly great wheels out there. Spesh finally smelled the coffee and listened to the outcry by consumers and didn’t want to alienate further sales and incur lost profit as it ended up backfiring on them a bit and why they offered the mysterious non SCS hanger…and so owners can now run std. wheels they prefer.

Will lastly say that Specialized makes great bikes. No they aren’t perfect and perfect is also somewhat in the eye of the beholder.


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