# Bontrager XXX Lite clinchers....finally!



## trauma-md (Feb 6, 2004)

They finally made it....my Madone SL is now complete. I hope the red spokes grow on me....


----------



## Peith (Feb 16, 2006)

trauma-md said:


> They finally made it....my Madone SL is now complete. I hope the red spokes grow on me....


uh oh....

do you have oclv 110/120 wheelset, or the oclv 55??? because if you don't have the 55, they are doing it, and you can save .02384372 grams! (cough cough tease tease)


The carbon bontragies are great; I saw the testing they put them through, and out of all the wheels, they tested strongest. enjoy


----------



## CARBON110 (Apr 17, 2002)

I hope you didn't pay rtail! You can get them off ebay for 50% off and the Warrnty is only for a YEAR!! WTF is that?


----------



## WhiskeyNovember (May 31, 2003)

CARBON110 said:


> I hope you didn't pay rtail! You can get them off ebay for 50% off and the Warrnty is only for a YEAR!! WTF is that?


The warranty only applies to the original owner. Used/secondhand wheels have no warranty whatsoever.


----------



## cmatcan (Oct 6, 2005)

WhiskeyNovember said:


> The warranty only applies to the original owner. Used/secondhand wheels have no warranty whatsoever.


thats what carbon is saying, i think-whats the point of buying them new if it costs way more and the warranty is so short anyways. might as well have no warranty if trek's only covers the wheels for a year.


----------



## trauma-md (Feb 6, 2004)

*definitely...*

did not pay retail....I've got a great Trek LBS!!! Unfortunately when I got mine, there were none on eBay...I got one of the first sets.


----------



## CARBON110 (Apr 17, 2002)

Trauma I think they are great wheels or rather I HOPE they are. I am familiar with them very well but what bothers me is Treks penny pinching. I boguht my first Trek way back when because I liked the look of it and it felt light and fast. I continued with Trek because I thought they had GREAT customer support. They don't have exceptional warranty or service but rather they are on par with others like Cannondale. Which means you are gambling. Why they raised prices and cut service as well as extended delivery time and cut production - to make mo mona! Bummer

cmatcan - thx for the clarity to Whiskey, Whiskey lay off the bottle fella =)

PS -

the last part was a joke Whiskey!


----------



## WhiskeyNovember (May 31, 2003)

CARBON110 said:


> They don't have exceptional warranty or service but rather they are on par with others like Cannondale. Which means you are gambling.


How can being on par with other industry leaders possibly be considered "gambling"?





CARBON110 said:


> Why they raised prices and cut service


In what way have they "cut service"?


----------



## CARBON110 (Apr 17, 2002)

well, they have cut service by changing production development. Instead of making an abundance of frames in estimation of how many "warrranty" replacments they expect much like a resteraunt predicts meals, they built a new production facility strictly to produce warranty frames.

However, this never came about in the sense they wanted it to. In addition just getting frames to bike shops on time has been a big issue much less Project 1 special orders and warranty replacments come last. You are looking at 3 months. In some places in the USA 3 months is the entire summer

Giant is the exact opposite. Instead of quibbling over how frames were broke they simply replace them. Cannonadle is know to haggle and haggle and not replace frames unless they have to and alot of the time have defects in framests. Gambling by which I mean, you really cant have confidence that your framset will be replaced either. Trek used to replace frames like Giant does but no longer

This is penny pinching and bad marketing. Trek could have flooded the market even more than they have if they were known for excellent service and support. Now they are known for Lance, the Tour and being popular. Which sells merchandise but only for awhile


----------



## trauma-md (Feb 6, 2004)

Everybody has had different experiences with warranty/customer support with ANY company. You'll hear disastrous stories as well as, heart-touching stories of dedication. Carbon, you're probably "gambling" with any company you buy a product from. There is no one with only positive customer experience; although, I have heard many MORE positive than negative experiences with Trek customer service/warranty. At least locally (and maybe it depends on your Trek dealer), my LBS has been able to produce warranty wheels and frames without ANY difficulty or delay. Just 1 month ago, a buddy of mine had a 1999 5200 OCLV. Over the years, sweat had run down the top tube and eventually loosened the rear brake cable guide from the frame, the frame was sent back to Trek for repair. Trek called my LBS and said, rather than fix the existing frame, they would replace with a brand new 5200 frame and fork. Trek wanted to know what color he wanted and within one week, it had arrived. (BTW...They replaced the fork because the '99 had a 1" threaded steerer.) I am sure there are many opinions to the contrary, but I still feel confident with Trek's Customer Service Dept.

PS as far as Giant is concerned....I tried to get a OCR/TCR around Xmas time for my brother-in-law....NO STOCK! and they didn't know when more would be available....so I hardly believe that there would be a quick warranty this season from them. Just as any company is concerned....new sales take precedence over warranty replacement


----------



## WhiskeyNovember (May 31, 2003)

CARBON110 said:


> In addition just getting frames to bike shops on time has been a big issue much less Project 1 special orders and warranty replacments come last. You are looking at 3 months. In some places in the USA 3 months is the entire summer


Your experiences, if true, are a very large exception. Everywhere else in the country, P1 orders and warranty replacements do <i>not</i> come last, and are in fact delivered in a very timely fashion.




CARBON110 said:


> you really cant have confidence that your framset will be replaced either. Trek used to replace frames like Giant does but no longer


Absolute crap. You appear to have a personal grudge against the company. Once again, you're one of only a handful of people in the country making such claims.




CARBON110 said:


> This is penny pinching and bad marketing. Trek could have flooded the market even more than they have if they were known for excellent service and support.


Trek is known worldwide for <i>avoiding</i> penny pinching and bad marketing, and providing excellent service and support. What happened between you and Trek? Attempting to warranty JRAs, are we?


----------



## cmatcan (Oct 6, 2005)

WhiskeyNovember said:


> Your experiences, if true, are a very large exception. Everywhere else in the country, P1 orders and warranty replacements do <i>not</i> come last, and are in fact delivered in a very timely fashion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


whskey, i'm not disputing any of those points, but i have a question for you about the last point. The new x-01 price has gone up a bit from 05, and the 5.2 sl's price has gone up a fair little chunk as well, despite no changes in spec's. whats the explanation for this?


----------



## WhiskeyNovember (May 31, 2003)

cmatcan said:


> The new x-01 price has gone up a bit from 05, and the 5.2 sl's price has gone up a fair little chunk as well, despite no changes in spec's. whats the explanation for this?


What XO-1 years are you comparing? The price of the XO-1 hasn't gone up for 2006, but I think it did when it was upgraded from 2004 spec to 2005 spec.

As for the 5.2 SL (and other OCLV models), chalk it up to aerospace. Right now, the aerospace industry is experiencing the very same carbon fiber revolution as as the cycling industry. 

They may not come right out and <i>say</i> it, but when Hexcel is allocating carbon fiber prepreg, priority is going to be given to accounts like Boeing, Raytheon, and Lockheed-Martin. When combined with the demand that currently exists across <i>all</i> sectors, we're going to see....at least for a while....higher pricing, less-than-impressive availability, and in some cases, both.


----------



## 3465mike (Dec 7, 2004)

*Calling Out Carbon 110*

Whiskey/November.....finally a voice of reason! *Carbon 110*, I'm surprised that you use a name that directly relates to TREK and make comments that degrade the brand. What further puzzles is the fact that most of the comments you make are incorrect (project 1 actually has a seperate division of allocated product reserved to shorten lead times). 
Price increases? Yes...first of all they're trivial and market based, second of all they're typically across the board brand wise.....this comes in most part directly from price increases from Shimano...
In addition, doesn't the possibility of material cost increasing mean anything? yeah the 
5.2 SL went up in price....have you paid attention to fuel costs, reported carbon shortages...etc. this year??

Regarding availability.....TREK has increased OCLV production across the board and lead times do exist in some situations, but nothing, NOTHING like last year...therefore creating a noticeable improvement......hell, even asian made hybrids were backordered last year, even with a projected and delivered production increase.....

I've been to the OCLV facility in Wisconsin....you can hardly move with the amount of people working in there......making frames BY HAND.....which takes time....TIME..you can't just wave a wand and say, "make more frames"...and comparing TREK to GIANT to me is a joke......although I believe GIANT probably makes on of the best quality carbon frames available, their size and scope dwarfs TREKS..and yet TREK managed to catch up and turn production around in a year....
"
your comment about "they have cut service by changing production development" please explain how cutting service, in your opinion, reflects on production development....

Lastly you mention how GIANT "Instead of quibbling over how frames were broke they simply replace them." and that TREK is penny pinching.....

CARBON 110, what business are you in? can I buy the product you make or sell, break it, and get a new one without questions asked? I think your definition of GIANTS warranty would be questioned, even by GIANT.......bottom line is, spreading rhetoric does no one on this site any good....opinions are fine, but if you have strong ones, back them up with fact.....


----------



## CARBON110 (Apr 17, 2002)

Whiskey I dont think you could get the time of day from a clock frankly

you people are behaving very over reactive. I have never had a bad experience with Trek and have owned more than 12 Trek Carbon bikes.

The support has changed and I know this because of the dealers I do business with. Thi is according to their testimony and some small experiences I have had that were surprising but not negative. 

Trek has changed greatly fellas, deal with it. They are not a bad company by any means just not the same company they started out as with warranty and availability.

Call a Trek and Giant dealer and ask the same questions. The 3 dealers I do business with all say the same thing - want their phone numbers? 

In anycase, I broke my Madone (3rd Trek I broke at 5'6 130lbs) and my dealer said all the above and he is a gold medalist, modest and honest person, friend of mine who would get me a bike as quick as possible if production was available and guess what every Trek dealer I know from California NC and VT all said Trek has changed in the same way. Instead of being the excpetion they are just like evey other company. Better than some but not all

I didn't make this stuff up so perhaps you should look it at as not some generality/sweeping statements but my experience the last 18 months and the experience of others

thx

Whiskey you are incredibly inarticulate. Don't behave like an idiot making a conversation about Trek Bikes personal over the internet. Nor do you seem to have any idea the amount of warranty claims Trek actually has every year. Simply, you do not have any of the information. 

Congrats on the wheels Trauma - I have owned them and many others, I hope they treat you well. 

I forgot how rediculous people can be on RBR

3465 mike you are in the same boat as Whiskey, you two should go bowling in never never land


----------



## WhiskeyNovember (May 31, 2003)

CARBON110 said:


> Nor do you seem to have any idea the amount of warranty claims Trek actually has every year. Simply, you do not have any of the information.


You have no idea, my friend.


----------



## 3465mike (Dec 7, 2004)

*decaf for 110?*

110......Why does it surprise you that people respond to your statements if they have different experiences? Why so defensive about the topic.....all we're doing is letting the forum readers know that your experience and statements are based on many factors, most of which have been improved upon.....Not sure about whiskey, but I'm not "dealing with what gold medalist friend" has told me, I'm dealing with the company directly everyday.....from purchasing to project one to warranty claims....And if my experiences with the company (a company that admittedly has experienced growing pains in an attempt to supply product in high demand) provide a different side to the story, how does that make me ranting or rediculous? My perspective is industry based, and my 17 years of experience has taught me that consumers get away with what they can......"he trek, my carbon frame broke after I drove it into my garage on my roof rack, will you warranty it?".....the bike company has to walk the line of being agreable, but not get taken advantage.......this keeps costs down for the products they sell....
Your statement "Trek has changed" is right on point. They have changed, they have gotten bigger......they make more product, they have more claims, they have more issues they have more dealers......they are concerned about the bottom line....that's what any profitable company does..at times that can make a company seem less personable.......but they're still reasonable...

Out of curiousity, you mentioned you broke your Madone....how and where? 

Whiskey/November......which bowling alley were we meeting at again?

and what exaclty is a clock frankly?


----------



## WhiskeyNovember (May 31, 2003)

65M, you bring up a good point. Carbon110's comments remind me of the naysayers who, for example, may criticize the Boeing 737 for being a dangerous airplane, based solely on the number of accidents per year of that type. 

The fact that they are unable to understand (or unwilling to acknowledge) is that there are more 737 airframes <i>in service</i> than any other transport-category aircraft, and that the accident <i>rate</i> is in fact <i>lower</i> than the majority of it's competitors.

Likewise with Trek. When one looks solely at the sheer volume of warranty claims, Trek may appear to have a comparitively high rate of defective frames. 

When one examines the whole picture, though, and takes into account the vast numer of bikes sold on an annual basis, it becomes clear that their actual <i>rate</i> of defective frames is proportionately very good.

It's called perspective, Carbon110, and it's what sets intelligent, reasoned individuals apart from the rest of the herd.


----------



## cmatcan (Oct 6, 2005)

WhiskeyNovember said:


> What XO-1 years are you comparing? The price of the XO-1 hasn't gone up for 2006, but I think it did when it was upgraded from 2004 spec to 2005 spec.
> 
> As for the 5.2 SL (and other OCLV models), chalk it up to aerospace. Right now, the aerospace industry is experiencing the very same carbon fiber revolution as as the cycling industry.
> 
> They may not come right out and <i>say</i> it, but when Hexcel is allocating carbon fiber prepreg, priority is going to be given to accounts like Boeing, Raytheon, and Lockheed-Martin. When combined with the demand that currently exists across <i>all</i> sectors, we're going to see....at least for a while....higher pricing, less-than-impressive availability, and in some cases, both.


for the shop where i work, the msrp for the x0-1 went up $50 inexplicably from 05 to 06....but the 5.2 sl was the one i was mainly interested about, thanks for your answer.


----------



## WhiskeyNovember (May 31, 2003)

cmatcan said:


> for the shop where i work, the msrp for the x0-1 went up $50 inexplicably from 05 to 06....but the 5.2 sl was the one i was mainly interested about, thanks for your answer.


Hmm...strange. If you check trekbikes.com, the advertised retail price is consistent from the '05 archives to the current '06 price. Both are $1319, and the most recently released price list confirms it. 

Your price increase might have been intended to increase margins, or perhaps was simply an oversight. Those price lists can become a bit of a blur after entering all the numbers into your system.


----------



## cmatcan (Oct 6, 2005)

WhiskeyNovember said:


> Hmm...strange. If you check trekbikes.com, the advertised retail price is consistent from the '05 archives to the current '06 price. Both are $1319, and the most recently released price list confirms it.
> 
> Your price increase might have been intended to increase margins, or perhaps was simply an oversight. Those price lists can become a bit of a blur after entering all the numbers into your system.


well that would make sense, but it was on dexter that i saw those prices. i was quoting them for a customer who had wanted to order an 05. there weren't any left, and so i was going to put through an order on his behalf for an 06, but had to check with him if that was okay due to the $50 price increase. this was back in november, so it could have been changed since then based on numbers of the x-01's they produced maybe??


----------



## WhiskeyNovember (May 31, 2003)

cmatcan said:


> well that would make sense, but it was on dexter that i saw those prices. i was quoting them for a customer who had wanted to order an 05. there weren't any left, and so i was going to put through an order on his behalf for an 06, but had to check with him if that was okay due to the $50 price increase. this was back in november, so it could have been changed since then based on numbers of the x-01's they produced maybe??


You know, for some reason I think I remember a few models changing price more than once. At one point it seemed as though there was an amended price list being released every few weeks for a couple of months. Maybe the XO-1 was one of those bikes.

BTW, remember to always examine the previous year's matrix. There are some extraordinary deals to be had on remaining stock....


----------

