# Beginner - question on calculating the FTP and HR for endurance ride



## lanchai (Sep 12, 2010)

Hi! I am new to this forum and just started training. I find there is lot of info in the forum.

Recently, I bought a power tap and tried it for 1-2 times. I did warm up and ride as hard as possible for 20 minutes. I got the critical power for 20 minutes.

Critical power is 185 W at 20 minutes. My heart rate is 152 / minutes at that time.

Is my FTP = 185 W x 0.95 = 175 W? 

How could I get by heart rate at FTP? Go back to the data and find out the heart rate at 175W OR just use the 152/minutes as the HR at my FTP?

I need the HR at FTP as reference for planning on my base training. Sometimes, I might not carry the powertap. I might ride another bike without the powertap on it.

Many thanks!


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

To really do a accurate 20 minute test you should do a near sprint 5 minute blow up before the main 20 minute effort following a nice warmup. I do my testing on my trainer so I get better repeatability. My test usually takes me 1.5 hours to finish with warmup, testing, and cool down. 

If you go all out and really push the 20 minutes you'll want to die when you finish.. Push push push you can do it! 

Your average wattage during that 20 minutes minus the 5% is your FTP.. 

Your heart rate zones are based on your "max heart rate" and not power. What is the absolute highest heart rate you've seen recorded? Using that number might be helpful.

Also.. if you can see a graph of your heart rate during the test try and see where it leveled off.. if you started low in the 120's and it ramped up to 152 then your average will be lower than actual. So that 152 bmp might be a little on the low side.


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## lanchai (Sep 12, 2010)

Thanks for the reply.

I got a higher heart rate when I was in weekend ride with a group at high intensity. Could I just take the highest HR during an intense ride as reference?

I read a book which is written by Hunter Allen and Andrew Coggan, name training and racing with power meter. On pg 48, it is written that %FTHR (% of average HR at functional threshold). How to get that average HR at function threshold? Suppose I perform the 20 minutes test only. I have no data at 1 hour test. How to find it out from the data if I performed the power profile test (which contains data at 20 minutes test)?


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## the_gormandizer (May 12, 2006)

You are doing the right thing by reading TRWPM. This books explains that the whole reason to train with power over HR is that HR is much less accurate. So you should train and race with your PM if you can.

Your max HR in an "intense ride" will not be a reflection of your lactate threshold HR. After you have been using your PM for a longer time and examine your data for 30 min or longer sustained efforts (not races or rides with "surges") you will start to get a good idea of your LT HR.

For a more accurate estimate of your FTP or rather CP60, you can do a Monod test using 20 min and 5 min efforts. See the calculator at:
http://www.cyclingpowermodels.com/MonodCriticalPower.aspx


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

the_gormandizer said:


> For a more accurate estimate of your FTP or rather CP60, you can do a Monod test using 20 min and 5 min efforts. See the calculator at:
> http://www.cyclingpowermodels.com/MonodCriticalPower.aspx


Of he could just ride hard for an hour...


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

> Your heart rate zones are based on your "max heart rate" and not power. What is the absolute highest heart rate you've seen recorded? Using that number might be helpful.


Friel's heart rate zones built around estimated lactate threshold or Carmichael's psychologically and logistically easier 2 x 8 minute efforts test are a lot more useful than those built around maximum heart rate since they take into account the gap between a given individual's FTP and VO2max and therefore aren't going to have people working unsustainably hard or slacking too much on intervals around and below their lactate threshold where most riding is done.

Much beyond one's lactate threshold (Friel's Zone 5b/5c) heart rate isn't relevant for pacing because the intervals are too short and it lags too much.



> Also.. if you can see a graph of your heart rate during the test try and see where it leveled off.. if you started low in the 120's and it ramped up to 152 then your average will be lower than actual. So that 152 bmp might be a little on the low side.


Friel's test protocol approximates LTHR using the average over the last twenty minutes of an all-out 30 minute effort.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

lanchai said:


> Hi! I am new to this forum and just started training. I find there is lot of info in the forum.
> 
> Recently, I bought a power tap and tried it for 1-2 times. I did warm up and ride as hard as possible for 20 minutes. I got the critical power for 20 minutes.
> 
> ...


It's at least 175W. Indoors on a trainer you might not do as well as outdoors. Your opinion of "as hard as possible" may be psychological although you could do better if you just dug deeper.



> How could I get by heart rate at FTP? Go back to the data and find out the heart rate at 175W OR just use the 152/minutes as the HR at my FTP?


Friel suggests approximating LTHR which is about what many people end up with at sustained efforts around FTP as the average over the last 20 minutes of a 30 minute effort.


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## Harry potter's madone (Jul 17, 2011)

So I have a question. I am a D1 college athlete who bikes over the summer as a way to maintain baseline fitness. I'm 6'5 180lbs. I have a trek madone 5.2 and typically ride 30 to 40 miles at a time, nothing crazy, at 20-25mph depending on wind and my heart rate is avg of 125-132bpm (my resting is about a 38). Where I ride is mainly flat but has some short ( like 1 min short) steep hills about a 10% gradient, these rides aren't hard for me, just a way to stay active and loose. I don't need any training suggestions I was just wondering if this is fast, cause I usually do all the passing on the road


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