# EPS--Observations



## kingfisher (Mar 6, 2009)

I recently switched from a Trek 5500/DA/box rims to an EPS/SR11/Eurus. The only other road bike I have ridden is a steel Bianchi 10 years ago. I had about 3500 miles on the Trek (bought it used last spring). I've got about 500 miles on the EPS. My observations:

1. General Handling. The Trek is a twitchy bike, and so it is very marginally quicker to initiate a turn. Once in the turn, however, the EPS is MUCH more stable, cuts much more deeply into the corners and recovers to center much quicker and more naturally. With the Trek, I often felt the bike was the "limiter" on corners. With the EPS, I'm the limiter. I've never carved a corner where I thought the bike was getting nervous. I'm sure there's a point where the corner is too deep for the bike, but I haven't had the guts to find it.

2. Stiffness. I wanted a bike that would react FAST to the pedals, on the climbs, on the flats, when moving around a group of riders. The EPS excels in this regard. The bike leaps forward when I stomp on the pedals. The experience is entirely natural--meaning, there is no sense of "working the bike up to speed" as with the Trek. Hit the gas, and the bike launches forward. The front end is perfect for jumps, hill accelerations, sprints--so solid a lot of leverage can be driven to the pedals. Out of the saddle, I have had to modify my riding style a bit to keep weight over the rear wheel to avoid skipping on account of the stiffness, but this was a minor adjustment and isn't something I'm even conscious of anymore. 

3. Climbing. The EPS rips up hills. Out of the saddle it fairly flies. The bike just disappears--just me versus the hill. The feeling is hard to describe, getting into a rhythm out of the saddle with the bike humming happily along underneath me. A common theme: with the Trek, I am always aware of the bike--cornering, sprinting, climbing, I was always working the bike. With the EPS, the bike exceeds me as a rider, and it becomes invisible and just does whatever I want it to do. 

I do notice the bike, however, on steeper hills (say above 10% grade). When I'm pulling hard on the bars to drive the pedals, the front end will lift of the ground--a scary sensation. Finding the sweet spot in these circumstances is a bit difficult--weight back to avoid skipping, but forward enough to keep the front wheel down, like climbing a ladder. I'd guess this is common for most lighter bikes.

4. Comfort. I never had comfort issues with the Trek and don't have any with the EPS. The EPS is more comfortable, but it's hard to say how much since I haven't ridden other bikes. On my first ride, however, I actually got off the bike b/c I thought the seat post was too loose and was sliding down into the frame over the bumps, so it's more comfortable. 

5. Descending. Related to handling above--desceding is awesome, totally fun. Very solid, very stable. The Trek would start to make me nervous above 30 mph even in straight decents. With the EPS, I've cornered at over 40 mph (big corners) under power with scarcely a thought. I doubt I have the guts to find the bike's limits. That said, the EPS is not as solid as I remember the steel Bianchi, though enough time has gone by it's hard to be sure.

6. Looks. I have had several random, non-cycling people stop me and compliment the bike (it's the color featured on the Colnago website). The paint, the lugs, the round tubing--simple, classic, fast. I like it. I could image better paint schemes, but the paint quality is very high. I can't think of a bike that has a paint scheme I prefer, though. The trek's cosmetics was just garbage--cheap paint with decals slapped on, visible "drops" where the paint didn't dry smoothly, etc. The fork on the EPS seems a bit too massive to me, though. Is its size performance driven or merely to meet the lines of the headtube? Who knows.


Some of the differences I've observed may be due to the different wheels.

Note on Dura Ace 7700 v. SR. I actually don't notice a material difference in terms of shifting performance. My Dura Ace was great, and still has that smooth Dura Ace glide. The Campy shifts click, click, click, but each does the trick. I do prefer (1) the Campy thumb shift--it's more natural/intuitive, (2) the ability to drop a ton of gears on the thumb shifter; (3) the ability to trim the front derailer. I have been glad a time or two for the extra gears (12-27 cassette). I get the sense that Record 10 is a smoother, less finicky group than SR11.


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## Jbartmc (Sep 14, 2007)

I moved from a Trek Madone to a Colnago Extreme Power last December and switched to SR11 from DA 7800 as well. I cannot speculate about the ride of the EPS, but concur with you about how the Campy shifting feels more natural and the benefit of multiple shifts that Shimano does not offer. I still ride my Madone, but the Extreme Power is my go-to first choice as it is more comfortable hands down.


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

kingfisher said:


> I do notice the bike, however, on steeper hills (say above 10% grade). When I'm pulling hard on the bars to drive the pedals, the front end will lift of the ground--a scary sensation.


Lifting front end at 10% hill? Are your bars too high? You should be able to comfortable ride hills of 20+% without lifting front end.


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## kingfisher (Mar 6, 2009)

*Lifting front end*



smokva said:


> Lifting front end at 10% hill? Are your bars too high? You should be able to comfortable ride hills of 20+% without lifting front end.


Bars are perfect--1cm spacer on a 52s (I'm 5'11). 

It's probably more my inexperience on a lighter bike than the Trek. I believe the trek has an alloy steerer tube and so the front end is much heavier, plus the Trek has alloy bars.

I checked the sloope of the hill where I have encoutered the problem on mapmyride (just that particular section and not the entire hill)--it's between 15 and 22% depending on the grade, if mapmyride can be trusted.


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## Jbartmc (Sep 14, 2007)

I am curious, what size Trek were you riding--your 5500?


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## kingfisher (Mar 6, 2009)

58 cm, with the seat slammed forward.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

kingfisher said:


> Bars are perfect--1cm spacer on a 52s (I'm 5'11).
> 
> It's probably more my inexperience on a lighter bike than the Trek. I believe the trek has an alloy steerer tube and so the front end is much heavier, plus the Trek has alloy bars.
> 
> I checked the sloope of the hill where I have encoutered the problem on mapmyride (just that particular section and not the entire hill)--it's between 15 and 22% depending on the grade, if mapmyride can be trusted.


You are lifting the front end because you are putting a ton of torque on the rear wheel while wrenching up on the bars. Try using a bigger gear that will allow you less torque or be a lot smoother on the pedals. Use a circular motion instead of "stomping" on the pedals. In essence, use the hamstring to bring the pedal up and around after you have pushed down on them with the quads.

Seriously, if you are lifting the front wheel on a 10% grade, you are really doing something wrong or your computer isn't listing the grade correctly.

By the way, reading your review makes me want an EPS, but I'm not even done building my C50 yet and I have had it since October. That is just sad.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

fabsroman said:


> but I'm not even done building my C50 yet and I have had it since October. That is just sad.


DAMN fabs!!! You and I are in competition for the longest build time ever!!! Seriously, when are you gonna get it done? I started building mine a few days ago but had to stop after one day because of too many other things going on- life, moving, work, kid, etc! Anyways, I've been up all night building it tonight (started at 1:00 AM and stopped at 4:15 AM- YES I am a night owl!) Got the headset installed including the race on the steerer, brakes, and RD. I know, I didn't get a whole lot done in the 3 + hours! I'm a slow newby at building, but I'm having fun! Hopefully, I will have it done by the end of the weekend. 

BTW, Sorry to hijack the thread OP!! Throw up some pics when you get a chance! I kinda wish I had gotten an EPS since from my understanding, it is just as light as the EC but way stiffer. I wanted a killer climber so that was I got the EC but the EPS is probably a better climber. Oh well. I will still enjoy the ride.


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## nrspeed (Jan 28, 2005)

Thanks for the write up on your impressions of the bike compared to your old rides. Enjoy it. 

Get some pics up here!


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Ride-Fly said:


> DAMN fabs!!! You and I are in competition for the longest build time ever!!! Seriously, when are you gonna get it done? I started building mine a few days ago but had to stop after one day because of too many other things going on- life, moving, work, kid, etc! Anyways, I've been up all night building it tonight (started at 1:00 AM and stopped at 4:15 AM- YES I am a night owl!) Got the headset installed including the race on the steerer, brakes, and RD. I know, I didn't get a whole lot done in the 3 + hours! I'm a slow newby at building, but I'm having fun! Hopefully, I will have it done by the end of the weekend.
> 
> BTW, Sorry to hijack the thread OP!! Throw up some pics when you get a chance! I kinda wish I had gotten an EPS since from my understanding, it is just as light as the EC but way stiffer. I wanted a killer climber so that was I got the EC but the EPS is probably a better climber. Oh well. I will still enjoy the ride.


I can build a bike in a single day, including building the wheels. Time is one issue, but the other is parts. I had the Campy Record 10 groupo in September before I even got the frame in October. I had everything I needed except the wheels, and then made the mistake of taking my bars and saddle to an air brush artist that screwed them up. So, I bought a new Prologo C One 30 saddle 2 days ago and I am trying to order some WR Compositi bars and stem from a place in Italy. That is taking me forever. I am also waiting on hubs and a skewer from the guy, and then I have to get the spokes and Powertap. The spokes and Powertap will be easy. It is these WR Compositi parts that are tough.

Like you, I also have a kid, another one due to be born in 12 days, and work that never stops. I am also a night owl too, but instead of being up until 4:00 last night building my bike, I was up until 4:00 doing my monthly billing.


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## 358pe68 (Dec 20, 2008)

Comparison between 58cm Trek and 52cm EPS...


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

358pe68 said:


> Comparison between 58cm Trek and 52cm EPS...


If it is a 52cm sloping EPS, it is the equivalent of a 56 traditional frame. I have no idea how Trek sizes their frames, but they probably aren't too far off as a 52 and 58 designation implies. Sizing a Colnago can be pretty tricky. I know it took me several weeks to understand their sizing when I was in the market for a Colnago Cristallo back in 2006.


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## kingfisher (Mar 6, 2009)

*52s*



fabsroman said:


> If it is a 52cm sloping EPS, it is the equivalent of a 56 traditional frame. I have no idea how Trek sizes their frames, but they probably aren't too far off as a 52 and 58 designation implies. Sizing a Colnago can be pretty tricky. I know it took me several weeks to understand their sizing when I was in the market for a Colnago Cristallo back in 2006.


That's right. The EPS is a 52S, which translates in a 55 traditional. The trek has a top tube of 57.5, as measured by me. With setback on the EPS seatpost, and zero setback post on the Trek, the overall fit is nearly the same. The trek is a bit taller (haven't measured), but we're not talking 6 cm difference in frame sizes.


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## 358pe68 (Dec 20, 2008)

I didn't realize it's 52 sloping. See it now... My mistake. Sorry. 

Glad you´re happy with EPS, I'm stiil waiting mine to come. Two months gone already and still waiting...


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