# BD: So Many Choices. How do you decide?



## negotiator (Aug 11, 2008)

Ok, I am in the market for a better road bike after my Steel Dawes has proven to be too tame for me. I am currently riding a friends Trek 1.2T, which is a nice bike but I want something lighter with more dependable components. 

After finding my way to bikesdirect, I am looking at one of these Motobecanes, Mercier, or Windsors. I am looking to spend anywhere from $800 to $1200 but I may go to around $1400 if I just cannot pass up on a deal.

My problem is that there are SO MANY bikes at bikesdirect in that price range, many with extremely similar components. How in the world can I narrow it down to the one that I want to purchase? Any ideas?

What process did some of you use to finally pick the bike you ultimately bought from Bikes Direct?


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## hirosugi (Jul 30, 2008)

it narrowed my search down when I figured I want at least shimano 105 components and less than $1000. I settled on Corvus that way. 

something I keep hearing is buy the most expensive bike you can afford. I was going to buy a $300 iron horse off ebay and was talked out of it. Glad I did spend a bit more.


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## frank828 (Oct 13, 2007)

in that price range i'd go with the Le Champ SL
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/lechamp08.htm

if they have ur size


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## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

Lol. I went through the same thing. I was smitten with the Immortal frames especially the IS and found the money to get it. Too much of a good deal to pass up with all those DA components and a pretty stout frame as Im beginning to realize. I dont regret the purchase at all. 

In your price range of 1200-1400 I would go with an Immortal Pro or for just a bit more the Immortal Force. IP is a mix of 105 and Ultegra while the IF is Ultegra. Carbon Frame with Ultegra at this price is ridiculous deal. Of course you can go non Carbon and save a lot more money and still get Ultegra but if you are willing to spend up to 1400 why not get the Carbon frame with Ultegra and its freakin light. I can lift my IS with my pinky no joke. Just a thought.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

This is what I did:

Set budget
Choose between double and triple
Choose between race-oriented geometry or more relaxed geometry
Choose frame material
Choose component level and wheelset
This gave me a short-list of 2 or 3 bikes. I then compared them all
side-by-side, mostly looking at geometry and sizing charts to give
the best chance of a good fit. I also emailed bikesdirect.com for
advice. I got some useful help, though expect precanned responses.
You would probably get more specific advice from Mike via private
messages or email. 

In the end any bike that you choose at a price-point in this range 
is going to be a compromise. If you go for the expensive carbon
frame, you will lose out on components and vica versa. 

Carbon is not a global panacea. It should ride smoother, but often
carbon frames are more flexible and "mushier" under large amounts
of pedal force. Carbon frames at this price point are not necessarily
any lighter than alumuminum, though aluminum is typically harsher.

But my biggest concern with carbon is what if I crash out or 
drop the frame? With Al or steel, significant damage is
typically visible to the naked eye (with a thorough inspection) and 
simply repairs can be made at the local bike store or frame builder. 
If you crash a carbon frame you are not going to get much, if any, 
help from this manufacturer and carbon repairs (even minor ones) 
will typically not be cost effective at this price point. You may 
well be looking at a brand new frame and rebuild. If you can
say with 100% certainty that you will not crash, then there's no
need to worry. I felt that way ... up until the day I crashed.

I am very happy with the bike that I chose and it has more than
5000 miles on it now. I feel like I got a very good deal on it compared
to buying at an LBS. The big problem for me was frame size as I
needed a 62cm. None of the local stores had anything in stock close
to remotely fitting me.

My only regret is on the fine details of bike fit.
It turns out that the Motobecane geometry table for the frame that
I bought was way off. Top tube length and wheel-base were off by
about 2cm (bike too long and geometry chart under-sized). I've 
worked around that by stem and saddle positioning compromises,
but it does rankle a little bit.

If I were to buy a bike now in the same price range, I would very
likely go with bikesdirect.com again. However, with a year's worth
of riding and bike experience under my belt I'd probably instead be
looking at spending 2x to 3x the money, and getting a brand-name bike 
from the LBS.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

ukbloke said:


> My only regret is on the fine details of bike fit.
> It turns out that the Motobecane geometry table for the frame that
> I bought was way off. Top tube length and wheel-base were off by
> about 2cm (bike too long and geometry chart under-sized). I've
> ...


Did they correct their chart when you told them? That's the main criticism of some of these bargain 'boutique' brands. They can order from the same factories that build bikes for the name brand companies, spec them nicely, offer steep discounts because they don't have a dealer network and are taking up the factory's 'slack time,' but their volume is so low that they have to accept what they get. 



ukbloke said:


> If I were to buy a bike now in the same price range, I would very
> likely go with bikesdirect.com again. However, with a year's worth
> of riding and bike experience under my belt I'd probably instead be
> looking at spending 2x to 3x the money, and getting a brand-name bike
> from the LBS.


One other option is to go with a place like Competitive Cyclist. Some higher end brands without good dealer penetration do allow their bikes to be sold through the web. Others don't allow complete bikes to be sold, but do sell the frames, which they allow CC and others (I think Full Cycles might be doing that now, too) to build them into bikes and sell long distance- and if they spec them the same as the factory you get the same bike. A couple of years ago I decided I wouldn't buy through the net again even though I had a good experience the one time I did, but when my 'local' Cervelo dealer ended up being 25 miles away and wanted more than list I changed my mind and went with CC. Of course that does mean I'm stuck paying for tune ups (likely wouldn't go 25 miles for a tune up anyway) and repairs (haven't needed any- knocking on wood), and only the frame is warranted, but with the LBS selling for over list, and CC selling for less, the total was about 25% less.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

> Did they correct their chart when you told them? That's the main criticism of some of these bargain 'boutique' brands. They can order from the same factories that build bikes for the name brand companies, spec them nicely, offer steep discounts because they don't have a dealer network and are taking up the factory's 'slack time,' but their volume is so low that they have to accept what they get.


It took me almost a year to realize that I was too stretched out, and then narrow it down to the top tube being too long, and then realize that the top tube length on the bike was different to the geometry chart. By then the 2008 bikes were out and that model had switched from Al to carbon with a different geometry. So I let it go, but that's a lesson learned for me.

I think that BD's volumes are actually pretty good though it is spread over a lot of models and sizes. I definitely agree that they take whatever they get. I imagine that their feedback loop on getting design/spec/quality changes back to the factory is incredibly long - they probably let that model year run out, and fix it next time around. I'm also pretty sure that they mop a lot of "last-year" component inventory that nobody else wants. For example, the Ritchey WCS wheels after their hub recall. Certainly they have to pull every trick they can to meet these price-points. Now that I look at their current offerings, I see slight changes in spec across the board with respect to last year to mask price increases. Look at all those FSA cranksets for example - hardly any full groupo offerings left. Nothing wrong with that, you've just got look at all the details to see where the value is.


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## hayduke1972 (Oct 3, 2007)

Buy the best frame for your money, not the best components. 

Right now, the Motobecane Immortal bikes have gotten some good press. Here is a review on one from Road Bike Action. They all share the same frame so you can pick up the Immortal Pro for $1295 with 105/Ultegra parts mix.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

> Buy the best frame for your money, not the best components.


I agree with that, and I did list frame ahead of components. There is a limit - don't allocate so much money on the frame that you end up having to upgrade the components right away. Carbon frames bikes close to $1000 tend to fall into that category. You can get a much better deal by getting decent components bundled with the bike rather than upgrading piece by piece. 

105 is good enough to get the job done, and the Immortal Pro is a great bike at a great price if that's the kind of bike you want and it fits. If you don't like the carbon wrap parts (and I don't), then there's the Immortal Spirit for a few (hundred) dollars more.


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## My Own Private Idaho (Aug 14, 2007)

A test ride will answer your question. One bike will feel more "right" to you than the others.


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## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

ukbloke said:


> This is what I did:
> 
> Set budget
> Choose between double and triple
> ...


Good read. Didnt give alot of thought about crashing my IM and some of the other non DA components. Ive got FSA head set and crank. Are they any good? I figured that even if the frame sucked I could get a name brand frame and hang the DA/FA components on it and still be ahead of the curve moneywise. Hmmmm I think Ill hold off on giving advice till I get ALOT more experience.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Snakebitten said:


> Good read. Didnt give alot of thought about crashing my IM and some of the other non DA components. Ive got FSA head set and crank. Are they any good? I figured that even if the frame sucked I could get a name brand frame and hang the DA/FA components on it and still be ahead of the curve moneywise. Hmmmm I think Ill hold off on giving advice till I get ALOT more experience.


Your bike is FINE (and much nicer than mine!), go out and ride it, and don't worry about upgrading anything until stuff breaks! FSA is a fine brand and they produce many high-spec, good value items. The head-set is an install and forget item - unless it is broke or has a problem, you won't notice any improvement at all with a new one. There are teams in the pro tour riding FSA cranks. There is of course variation in cranks trading off weight, shifting performance, durability, stiffness and cost. I pointed out the FSA (or Trutativ) cranks because they are a lower cost option that is being swapped in by lots of manufacturers to reduce cost. Many buyers will see the Shimano shifters and derailleurs, and not realize that they're not getting the full group-set. This is an expensive item to upgrade later - you can spend $350 to $500 on an Ultegra or Dura-ace crankset at the store, though often you can score one cheaper on ebay. However, don't replace something like this on a whim - ride your bike and consider upgrades as and when parts fail.

As for the advice a lot of it is personal opinion, so take with a big grain of salt. In many cases people give advice that reinforce their own buying decisions in the past!


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

ukbloke said:


> Your bike is FINE (and much nicer than mine!), go out and ride it, and don't worry about upgrading anything until stuff breaks! FSA is a fine brand and they produce many high-spec, good value items. The head-set is an install and forget item - unless it is broke or has a problem, you won't notice any improvement at all with a new one. There are teams in the pro tour riding FSA cranks. There is of course variation in cranks trading off weight, shifting performance, durability, stiffness and cost. I pointed out the FSA (or Trutativ) cranks because they are a lower cost option that is being swapped in by lots of manufacturers to reduce cost. Many buyers will see the Shimano shifters and derailleurs, and not realize that they're not getting the full group-set. This is an expensive item to upgrade later - you can spend $350 to $500 on an Ultegra or Dura-ace crankset at the store, though often you can score one cheaper on ebay. However, don't replace something like this on a whim - ride your bike and consider upgrades as and when parts fail.
> 
> As for the advice a lot of it is personal opinion, so take with a big grain of salt. In many cases people give advice that reinforce their own buying decisions in the past!


Amen- no complaints on my FSA cranked bike, and I have NEVER understood people talking about replacing their headsets with a 'higher end' model. The original headset on my '77 Schwinn is as smooth as the one on my new Cervelo.


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## hayduke1972 (Oct 3, 2007)

*Can you do that online*



My Own Private Idaho said:


> A test ride will answer your question. One bike will feel more "right" to you than the others.


A test ride on a BikesDirect.com bike?:idea: :idea: :idea: 

That is kind of the main compromise you make when buying a bike online...no test ride


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## 20sMotoSpirit (May 27, 2007)

Parts! Its about the parts.


Buy at the higher end when possible.

BD offers a GREAT!!!! DEAL!!!! on Ultegra Parts.

I have owned two BD bikes.... One I bought to get into riding.... second was for group rides and racing. 

As of yesterday I turned my LSL into my S-works E5 Looks amazing and was 100% compatible with the frame. 

Either way, its the parts that are a great deal, and a great way to get into cycling, but as a for a performance race bike, scrap the parts and get a better frame... at the prices they are offering.... you can get very close to the employee purchase price that shop guys have.


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## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

ukbloke said:


> Your bike is FINE (and much nicer than mine!), go out and ride it, and don't worry about upgrading anything until stuff breaks! FSA is a fine brand and they produce many high-spec, good value items. The head-set is an install and forget item - unless it is broke or has a problem, you won't notice any improvement at all with a new one. There are teams in the pro tour riding FSA cranks. There is of course variation in cranks trading off weight, shifting performance, durability, stiffness and cost. I pointed out the FSA (or Trutativ) cranks because they are a lower cost option that is being swapped in by lots of manufacturers to reduce cost. Many buyers will see the Shimano shifters and derailleurs, and not realize that they're not getting the full group-set. This is an expensive item to upgrade later - you can spend $350 to $500 on an Ultegra or Dura-ace crankset at the store, though often you can score one cheaper on ebay. However, don't replace something like this on a whim - ride your bike and consider upgrades as and when parts fail.
> 
> As for the advice a lot of it is personal opinion, so take with a big grain of salt. In many cases people give advice that reinforce their own buying decisions in the past!


Appreciate the advice. I wasnt looking to replace anything that I mentioned just want to know if its good. Total noob here and a clydesdale to boot plus theres not much info on these bikes so Im constantly fishing for any info on things [weaknesses] I should look out for. Ive learned about the brake pads and seat so far and have replaced both. Trust me Im riding the hell out of this bike and enjoying every moment.


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## elevated (Apr 26, 2007)

> it narrowed my search down when I figured I want at least shimano 105 components and less than $1000. I settled on Corvus that way.


this was me too, and it led me to the Windsor Knight. It was a ***** figuring out my size, and a roll of the dice to finally order my 56, but ultimately well worth it. I would echo those above that say high quality components are more important than a high quality frame, but thats me. I personally love the feel of aluminum but want high performance shifting. 



> BD offers a GREAT!!!! DEAL!!!! on Ultegra Parts.


this is very true. LBS ultegra bikes cost a boatload more than you will pay with BD.

One other thought that may or may not apply to you-- theres a lot of other cycling gear you will end up wanting/needing once you get your bike, because you will want to ride it all the time. For example, I am really glad i went with an aluminum frame rather than a C frame, and applied the cash i saved to some high end PI shorts and high end (for me!) Shimano shoes, and upgraded pedals.

If you have more disposable cash, then get carbon. if you're stretching your cash like i was/am, consider this a positive reference for this particular approach. i am definitely a beginning cyclist (started this year!) but i'm doing a ton of 20-40 mile rides and loving every minute of it.


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## 20sMotoSpirit (May 27, 2007)

elevated said:


> this was me too, and it led me to the Windsor Knight. It was a ***** figuring out my size, and a roll of the dice to finally order my 56, but ultimately well worth it. I would echo those above that say high quality components are more important than a high quality frame, but thats me. I personally love the feel of aluminum but want high performance shifting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You hit the nail right on the head. However, you did miss an important point. AL frames are easy to maintain, Crash-then-ride-able. With CF frames its best to have a Shop you can depend on if you snap or some part fails on the frame.

We did a carbon Lemond warrenty, and it was not fun, they found all sorts of problems with the carbon fiber. The dude had sucked his rear drive into the wheels and damaged the stays.

Either way, Ditto on the AL frames... Love em' - Honestly I really dont feel too much of a difference on a full CF frame.


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