# Rasmussen Gone!



## EasyRider47 (Sep 18, 2005)

L'Equipe:

25/07/2007
Cyclisme - TDF-Dopage - Rasmussen quitte le Tour
Le maillot jaune Michael Rasmussen ne sera pas au départ de la 17e étape du Tour de France, jeudi, à Pau. Son équipe, Rabobank, a décidé de ne pas l'aligner pour des raisons encore non précisées. Cette décision intervient quelques heures après le départ volontaire de l'équipe Cofidis dont le coureur italien Christian Moreni a été contrôlé positif à la testostérone...



No translation needed....


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Bordel de merde!


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

Link: L'Equipe


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

SilasCL said:


> Link: L'Equipe


shut the whole fiasco down...it's a disgrace.

bad babelfish translation:

The Rabobank team decided Wednesday evening to withdraw Outer Loop immediately the Dane Michael Rasmussen. Blamed to have missed several unexpected controls before the beginning of the test, it had consolidated its yellow jersey the very same day by gaining the 16th stage with the Collar of Aubisque. The Yellow jersey should return in Alberto Contador. The Turn of France is more than ever in chaos.


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## maddog (Feb 26, 2004)

I love this sport, but it, at its highest professional level, is a joke right now


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Yesterday = bad. 

Today = worse.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

Holy Smokes...Blotes.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

The Discovery team must be partying right now! 1st and 3rd... until one of them is pulled out of the race, nothing's surprising at this point.


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## James OCLV (Jun 4, 2002)

Can the whole thing at this point... the race (and the sport) has absolutely NO credibility.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul26news


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*Why?*



James OCLV said:


> Can the whole thing at this point... the race (and the sport) has absolutely NO credibility.
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul26news


They are getting tougher on doping, and they are finding the cheats. How does this "hurt" their credibility? I think it makes it more profound, or better. Are they finding them all? Of course not, but they are finding a lot more than other professional sports who just turn a blind eye to the whole mantra of doping. I think that the UCI and specific teams in general (T-Mobile for one, Slipstream for another, and CSC) are all doing outstanding work in better controlling their riders and testing them even more than their national bodies are doing, and in turn, are catching the cheaters. It has already happened several times this year that teams specifically pulled riders for the testing that they were doing, and nobody else.


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## James OCLV (Jun 4, 2002)

magnolialover said:


> They are getting tougher on doping, and they are finding the cheats. How does this "hurt" their credibility? I think it makes it more profound, or better. Are they finding them all? Of course not, but they are finding a lot more than other professional sports who just turn a blind eye to the whole mantra of doping. I think that the UCI and specific teams in general (T-Mobile for one, Slipstream for another, and CSC) are all doing outstanding work in better controlling their riders and testing them even more than their national bodies are doing, and in turn, are catching the cheaters. It has already happened several times this year that teams specifically pulled riders for the testing that they were doing, and nobody else.


Do you believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that whomever eventually wins this Tour won it clean?


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

James OCLV said:


> Can the whole thing at this point... the race (and the sport) has absolutely NO credibility.


They catch people, and punish them. They do a far stricter job than any other sport. If they catch people and boot them out, that is a sign the system works.

When cheaters are getting caught, only stupid people cheat.

Still, it is a black eye for sure to the sport.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

If the point is to clean up the sport, it will take time. Rome can't be re-built overnight.


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## James OCLV (Jun 4, 2002)

dr hoo said:


> They catch people, and punish them. They do a far stricter job than any other sport. If they catch people and boot them out, that is a sign the system works.
> 
> When cheaters are getting caught, only stupid people cheat.
> 
> Still, it is a black eye for sure to the sport.


I agree... I think that this needs to be done if the sport wants to regain its credibility. Frankly, I don't have any confidence in a clean winner this year... and these steps need to be taken if that's ever to change in the future.

From what I'm reading, there is a dispute as to Rasmussen's whereabouts in June. He claims he was in Mexico and eye-whitenesses are claiming other wise (he was in Italy training).


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## genejockey (Apr 11, 2007)

Holy crap!


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

Uhhh...Uhhh... doink


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## maddog (Feb 26, 2004)

and Leipheimer misses out of a Tour stage win on his palmares.... 

so now the pressure is on Disco - the Puerto link will put Contador under suspicion now


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## James OCLV (Jun 4, 2002)

Levi might win this thing after all.... LOL


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## bonkmiester (Sep 23, 2005)

EasyRider47 said:


> L'Equipe:
> 
> 25/07/2007
> Cyclisme - TDF-Dopage - Rasmussen quitte le Tour
> ...


http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070725_230356Dev.html

The yellow jersey Michael Rasmussen will not be at the beginning of the 17th stage of the Turn of France, Thursday, in Pau Its team, Rabobank, decided not to align it for reasons still not specified. The Danish runner had escaped with several unexpected controls before the Turn. This decision intervenes a few hours after the voluntary departure of the Cofidis team whose Italian runner Christian Moreni was controlled positive with testosterone. Tuesday, it was the team kazakhe Astana which was put at the variation by the direction of the Turn: its leader, Alexandre Vinokourov, had been controlled positive with the homologous transfusions.


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## pedalruns (Dec 18, 2002)

Wow..... now if only a Disco rider would test positive.... the omerta might start to crumble!! Right now it will only be pointed that 'individuals' are cheating, when IMO most all of the sport is to blame.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Levi and Cadel may now, or soon be the front-runners It's all an English-speaking conspiracy!


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## martylane (Jul 29, 2004)

Hot Damn! This is getting exciting! 

I think the Yellow Jersey should go to the doping control. They appear to be winning this Tour.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

Ok, I removing this forum from my bookmarks now.

It is time to emotionally divest from the TDF.

:sad:
fc


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## IAmCosmo (Jul 26, 2005)

I'm not sure I agree with this one.... yet.

As far as I know, Rasmussen hasn't tested positive for any banned substances or blood doping or anything yet, has he? I understand the dispute about him not being where someone thought he was. But is that reason enough to kick him out?

I realize that they may be suggesting something illegal going on, but until he fails a test, I don't get it...


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Yes...it's better*



magnolialover said:


> They are getting tougher on doping, and they are finding the cheats. How does this "hurt" their credibility? I think it makes it more profound, or better. Are they finding them all? Of course not, but they are finding a lot more than other professional sports who just turn a blind eye to the whole mantra of doping. I think that the UCI and specific teams in general (T-Mobile for one, Slipstream for another, and CSC) are all doing outstanding work in better controlling their riders and testing them even more than their national bodies are doing, and in turn, are catching the cheaters. It has already happened several times this year that teams specifically pulled riders for the testing that they were doing, and nobody else.


The ASO(can't believe I am agreeing with them) and the teams need to keep on being tough. IT will get better.


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## bonkmiester (Sep 23, 2005)

James OCLV said:


> I agree... I think that this needs to be done if the sport wants to regain its credibility. Frankly, I don't have any confidence in a clean winner this year... and these steps need to be taken if that's ever to change in the future.
> 
> From what I'm reading, there is a dispute as to Rasmussen's whereabouts in June. He claims he was in Mexico and eye-whitenesses are claiming other wise (he was in Italy training).



http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul26news

It is not clear yet if it is related to the comments made by Davide Cassani, the commentator for Italian TV channel RAI, to Danish news source _DR. _Cassani claimed that he had seen Rasmussen in the Dolomites on June 13 or 14. The Dane has claimed he spent June 4 through 26 in Mexico for training.


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## StormShadow (Feb 27, 2005)

IAmCosmo said:


> I'm not sure I agree with this one.... yet.
> 
> As far as I know, Rasmussen hasn't tested positive for any banned substances or blood doping or anything yet, has he? I understand the dispute about him not being where someone thought he was. But is that reason enough to kick him out?
> 
> I realize that they may be suggesting something illegal going on, but until he fails a test, I don't get it...


You can't test positive if they can't find you.


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## James OCLV (Jun 4, 2002)

StormShadow said:


> You can't test positive if they can't find you.


Damn.... beat me to it! Is _own team_ pulled him from the race!

http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/details/articles/12944.0.html

"Yellow jersey wearer Michael Rasmussen was sensationally kicked out of the Tour de France by his own Rabobank team, the Dutch outfit revealed on Wednesday. 

The Dane had seemingly weathered the storm over missing four out of competition dope tests in the past 18 months and had won Wednesday's stage to all but seal overall victroy. 

However the team has learnt that Rasmussen lied to them over where and what he was up to during the month of June when he was in fact in Italy and not in Mexico as he had told them. 

"He broke team rules," said a team spokesman, who said that the Dane has also been fired from the team. 

"It is not even sure if the team will carry on in the race," he added. 

Rasmussen had won two stages during the Tour, though, his presence at the race was questioned by several officials and from the race organisers as well. 

His departure leaves young Spaniard Alberto Contador in the lead with Australian Cadel Evans in second. "


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

IAmCosmo said:


> I'm not sure I agree with this one.... yet.
> 
> As far as I know, Rasmussen hasn't tested positive for any banned substances or blood doping or anything yet, has he? I understand the dispute about him not being where someone thought he was. But is that reason enough to kick him out?
> 
> I realize that they may be suggesting something illegal going on, but until he fails a test, I don't get it...


A missed test equates to a failed test. Therefore it could be assumed that if you are not where you claim to be, you are unavailable for testing and as a consequence, bound to miss any test. QED


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## martylane (Jul 29, 2004)

Well, I guess we can't say for sure what's going on at the moment. Who knows? Maybe it's not doping afterall. Maybe Chicken called the director a wanker, or something, and maybe the Rabobank team has a rule against that. Maybe that's why they gave him the boot.


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## BuenosAires (Apr 3, 2004)

This is just freakin' rediculous. It's all speculation at this point. If he were in 15th on the GC would anyone care? I think not. 

I know they need to clean up the sport, but the way things are being handled makes what used to be the greatest sporting event in the world look like a joke.


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## IAmCosmo (Jul 26, 2005)

StormShadow said:


> You can't test positive if they can't find you.


Yeah, I see your point there.

But why now? Why when he's only days away from possibly winning? They knew way before the Tour. Just seems like bad timing.

Don't get me wrong... I'd love to see a rider from Discovery win. Just seems fishy the whole timing of it...


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## innergel (Jun 14, 2002)

This is just disgusting. Totally and utterly disgusting, to paraphrase Paul Sherwin. I love pro cycling and the TDF, but this makes me sick.


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## James OCLV (Jun 4, 2002)

IAmCosmo said:


> Yeah, I see your point there.
> 
> But why now? Why when he's only days away from possibly winning? They knew way before the Tour. Just seems like bad timing.
> 
> Don't get me wrong... I'd love to see a rider from Discovery win. Just seems fishy the whole timing of it...


Well had the organizers know of this before the Tour, they probably wouldn't have let him start.

I HATE the Chicken, but didn't want to see it go down like this either...


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

*The Tour must go on!!*



EasyRider47 said:


> L'Equipe:
> 
> 25/07/2007
> Cyclisme - TDF-Dopage - Rasmussen quitte le Tour
> ...


As Phil and Paul say, it's part of the painful process of catching and identifying riders who dope. If people believe doping is happening in cycling while also believing in testing, they should realize this is just what they need to see. Riders getting caught and rules being enforced no matter if the rider is in first or last place.
If you just decide to end a race, punishing the innocent along with the guilty, what have the riders who ride clean received for their efforts? Nothing. 

If people believe doping has been in cycling for decades, they shouldn't expect all doping from last year's even to this year's event. 

Rasmussen missed a random test. Now we must enforce the strictest penalty for missing a random test or failing to report location information-a zero-tolerance policy. 

I think cycling has passed the stage of weeding out the curious, and is now in the process in weeding out the greedy and the stupid.


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## mbcracken (Sep 18, 2006)

As for why now...

I remember Paul or Phil saying something, when the Chicken missing the failing to report hit the news, about the Danes not liking the French racing and might be making this move to make the Tour look bad in order to draw attention to other European races. Again this is horrible speculation and i am looking for other reasons as to this timing...

Cheers,
mike


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## Sam Adams (Feb 23, 2006)

What in the wild-wild world is going on here!

This is unbelievable, what a nightmare. 

I watched this morning as Paul, Bob, Al & Phil talked during the pre-race coverage. They were pissed talking about the circumstances surrounding sports today; with Bonds, Vick, the NBA scandal and Vino. 

I can't imagine what they are thinking now!


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## Magsdad (Jun 29, 2005)

*This sucks...*

And to think I told my wife today there was no way Ras would make it to Paris.:idea: 

My very observant three year old daughter asked me this morning what doping means.

We shouldn't have to answer that question, but welcome to the new world.


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## pjxndvm (May 30, 2004)

*Ugh!*

I read the story about a previous bike rider accusing Rasmussen of trying to get him to carry illegal blood products into Europe for him (VeloNews), and it made perfect sense to me. I am a veterinarian, and the product that he allegedly wanted to get into Europe was Hemopure (Oxyglobin for us vets), which for lack of a better explanation is an oxygen carrying plasma, ergo no increased hematocrit. To my knowlegde there is no test for this compound. Does anyone have any info on any test available for this product? The comment in the VeloNews article quoted Rassussen as saying.."do you have any idea how expensive that sh*t is?" Very true statement.... a 100 cc bag of the stuff runs (my cost) about $200 and for dogs only treat 20 pounds worth of dog.... imagine what costs to treat a 150 pound cyclist...

All the doping ruins a very beautiful sport, test them, find the dopers and get rid of them, OR, let it be known that all substances are legal to use, or have a clean tour and a "juice" tour. At least they are testing and finding guilty ones. Can't believe Vino was stupid enough to take a blood tranfusion... so easily detectable. 

I am sure Disco is partying tonight.... but I am sure this is not the way they want things to go.


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## GueroAz (Nov 9, 2006)

Rabobank was probably sitting, quietly hoping that Contador would overtake Rasmussen in today's stage or at least get within 30-60 seconds that would give him a chance to take the lead from Ras in the ITT. Rabobank is clearly one of the good sponsers and wants to keep the sport as clean as it can be. In Mexico is one thing, in Italy is something else entirely.

What a complete nightmare.


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

*Thanks Hoo*



dr hoo said:


> They catch people, and punish them. They do a far stricter job than any other sport. If they catch people and boot them out, that is a sign the system works.
> 
> When cheaters are getting caught, only stupid people cheat.
> 
> Still, it is a black eye for sure to the sport.


I'm glad you see it that way. The "Keep Hope Alive" camp is the only thing that will keep cycling alive. Turning your back on the event or sport won't heal it. Those feeling the sport of cycling isn't worth saving will not find another sport with more drama and effort. 
It hurts to think an individual rider's performance was a cheat, but the solution is a process, and can't be expected to be resolved in a single event. 
I'm happy to write off Chicken, cheer on Disco, and possible rue the fact Levi took seconds away from their best podium hope. 
:thumbsup:


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## ashpelham (Jan 19, 2006)

I am sick again, for le Tour. But I agree that this is a painful process for cleaning the sport up. This will be the 2nd year in a row where the Yellow jersey has been scandaled.

Let us say this for sure: This should scare some of those who think they could win leTour and keep the yellow jersey.


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## GraniteX (Sep 21, 2006)

I for one am relieved. I was thinking Ras was a scumbag. I just worry that we'll find out something about Levi, Bert or Cadel that we'd rather not know.

As for Chicken Boy, I keep remembering the stories about Tyler H., and how he was supposedly warned months before his positive at the Olympics. The vampires were finding some "abnormalities" in his test results. Though they couldn't nail him on anything, they basically told him (and his team), "We know you're up to something, you'd better stop."

I've been wondering if Danish officials and Rabobank have similar knowledge about Rasmus, and that's why they took such hard lines on relatively minor "administrative" errors. Kinda like nailing Scooter for perjury when they couldn't get him for outing a CIA agent.


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## grrlyrida (Aug 3, 2006)

*so long cheater*

After Vino left, I canceled my season pass on tivo and planned not to waste another minute watching the tour. Seeing that no one was going to challenge Rasmussen I thought great another cheatin doper is going to win. Now I think I'll tune into the enhanced coverage tonight to see how Al and Bob will spin this.


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## nenad (May 5, 2004)

James OCLV said:


> Well had the organizers know of this before the Tour, they probably wouldn't have let him start.
> 
> I HATE the Chicken, but didn't want to see it go down like this either...


"What is it Colonel Sanders? CHICKEN?" 

-- from Space Balls


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Exactly. What more does his team know?


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## ti-triodes (Aug 14, 2006)

What a nightmare.

How many sponsors will be left next year?


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## allison (Apr 19, 2006)

Francis - admit it; you're just upset about losing a few RBR jerseys!


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## iamnotfilip (Jul 9, 2007)

Wow... not a fan of Rasmussen but for a team to give up the yellow jersey when they were not forced to sounds really strange. I find it hard to believe they really did this volountarily. They must have been pressured/bribed by the tour organizers to do this. The yellow jersey was theirs for sure in Paris.

But if the strictness for doping has gone to such a high level, and teams and riders are obeying these rules, that makes Floyd Landis look like a cry-baby junkie.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

*Good for Raobobank....*

Why esle would the guy flat out lie whyere he wwas BUT to avoid testing.

JB must be dancing in the streets and might be easier to get a new sponsor!


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

*Why? Team credibility*



IAmCosmo said:


> Yeah, I see your point there.
> 
> But why now? Why when he's only days away from possibly winning? They knew way before the Tour. Just seems like bad timing.
> 
> Don't get me wrong... I'd love to see a rider from Discovery win. Just seems fishy the whole timing of it...


I'd like to think Rabobank knew the realities of cycling today. You couple missing a test, failing to disclose your location, and LYING about your location, and that location turns out to be Italy, and too many things add up. The risk was two fold. They lie indicated he had something to hide, if found out later, the team faces complete disgrace. Even if he wasn't doing anything illegal, allowing him to skate on random test just because he can win the Tour is a bad example and totally against Team's stated committment to enforce antidoping rules. 
I respect the team more for it.


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## darrellcraig (May 1, 2006)

Things will really escalate and we'll be on the way to an effective solution when sponsor dollars start leaving en masse. Kind of hoping we see a mass exit this year, tough for the sport in short term but it needs some strong medicine.

On the other hand, would be cool to legalize drugs and allow both drug-free and drug-using teams to complete. I'd love to find out how high a drug-free rider could place in the tour. And what new sponsors would the sport attract? ... Imagine the pharmaceutical companies lining up to support bike teams so new legions of young sports fans can aspire to be like their heros through chemistry. Or the slow foods movement in Italy sponsoring a bike team - takes a bit longer but oh so good for you.


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## badder2 (Jun 26, 2006)

Surely Chickens passport will tell where he was in June. Perhaps that is what Rabobank got and it confirmed there suspicions on his June schedule.


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## stoked (Aug 6, 2004)

This is a French conspiracy I tell you. They are trying to eliminate all top riders until Moreau is left at top


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

darrellcraig said:


> Things will really escalate and we'll be on the way to an effective solution when sponsor dollars start leaving en masse.


Nonsense! This opens up the doors to all sorts of Pharmaceutical Companies that specialize in EPO products! Amgen for example!


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## CrankyMonkey (Jul 8, 2007)

My buddy and I were discussion the tour yesterday and he sent this to me today. His stance was this "Three weeks of 100+ km rides back to back through the mountains. I know these guys are suppose to be elite but come on. There is a limit to what people can do unassisted."

He sent this to me this morning...

http://infospigot.typepad.com/infospigot_the_chronicles/

BTW... I dopped up on some ibuprofen two nights ago and beat my overall commute time by 2 minutes the next day! I think I will try a blood transfusion and see if I can shave off 20 minutes.


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## argylesocks (Aug 2, 2004)

stoked said:


> This is a French conspiracy I tell you. They are trying to eliminate all top riders until Moreau is left at top


haha.... that actually doesn sound too far fetched.


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## beantownbiker (May 30, 2002)

James OCLV said:


> Damn.... beat me to it! Is _own team_ pulled him from the race!
> 
> http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/details/articles/12944.0.html
> 
> ...



my thoughts:

Michael Rasmussen hasnt tested positive for anything, maybe this is Rabobanks way of giving him a second chance. Since he is fired and presumably no longer has to take any tests, he will not be found positive for anything, thus avoiding any ban. He had 4 warnings, but as far as I know, they can't ban you over what other people say...

Rabobank can say that they fired him for violating team policy and avoid the drug issue altogether. Rasmussen, with no positive test has the rest of the year (or more) to clean up his act and find another sponsor. 

I can only imagine how the tour would of gone with Ras out from the beginning (even more exciting!)

is this good for cycling? 

hell yes, maybe not this year, probably not next year, but i wouldnt be surprised if other sports started following suit and cracking down. This year is sending a message that they are serious about cleaning up cycling. 

here's to hoping Contador/LL/Evans/Sastre are clean.


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

CrankyMonkey said:


> My buddy and I were discussion the tour yesterday and he sent this to me today. His stance was this "Three weeks of 100+ km rides back to back through the mountains. I know these guys are suppose to be elite but come on. There is a limit to what people can do unassisted."


The RAAM guys go the same distance in 8 DAYS.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

wipeout said:


> The RAAM guys go the same distance in 8 DAYS.


Do they have strict doping controls?


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

WOW! Not completely surprised but that seems to be the one word that pretty much covers it. Wow...


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

I think...........

that neither the team nor the ASO wanted the black eye of having someone who disappeared for 21 days prior to the tour and missed a total of 4 tests (because of a technicality) winning this tour......it's entire credibility was at stake.

So I think that the ASO and Robobank made a deal. If Ras cracked today and looked like he would not win the tour, Robo would be able to leave him in, since he won today, he was out.

The nail in the coffin was that he was in italy (allegedly with ferrari).

Correct call IMO.

len


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## rootfreak (May 17, 2007)

*Confused*

I'm confused, I thought they already punished him fo not showing up for tests. He didn't actually have drugs in his system during the tour, did he? What difference does it make whether he trained in Mexico of Italy. He still skipped.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

I think the replay with Bob and Al on VS tonight is going to be kind of weird.


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## MikeBiker (Mar 9, 2003)

That'll teach Rasmussen to sleep through geography. Mexico, Italy, what' the difference. Maybe his wife is really Italian not Mexican.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

rootfreak said:


> I'm confused, I thought they already punished him fo not showing up for tests. He didn't actually have drugs in his system during the tour, did he? What difference does it make whether he trained in Mexico of Italy. He still skipped.


He was kicked off the Danish National Team for missing the tests--His team Rabobank fired him for lying about being in Italy rather than MX when they found out.


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## goose127 (Jun 9, 2004)

I think you really have to nail Rabobank mgt on this one. How can a I guy miss a bunch of controls and you let him start this race. This race had a black mark due to Vino. But now the results are bastardized by this crap with Chicken Man. These last three races would have been raced differently without his prescence let alone in the alps. All of these selfish clowns are screwing the sport from top to the cat 5s at the local parking lot crit. eff 'em


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## reklar (Mar 15, 2003)

Len J said:


> I think...........
> 
> that neither the team nor the ASO wanted the black eye of having someone who disappeared for 21 days prior to the tour and missed a total of 4 tests (because of a technicality) winning this tour......it's entire credibility was at stake.
> 
> ...


Maybe, but that's a big gamble though since he was on the precipice of winning the tour. I mean, he had all but won it today. I don't think anyone believed he would have a time trial as bad as '05 ...

Had they kicked him out before the stage, the tactics would have changed today. This was not fair for the rest of the competitors if true (*and* assuming *they* are clean, which at this point is not certain).


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Dan Gerous said:


> Bordel de merde!


Je suis en d'accord! ENCROYABLE!


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*It's entertainment!*



reklar said:


> Maybe, but that's a big gamble though since he was on the precipice of winning the tour. I mean, he had all but won it today. I don't think anyone believed he would have a time trial as bad as '05 ...
> 
> Had they kicked him out before the stage, the tactics would have changed today. This was not fair for the rest of the competitors if true (*and* assuming *they* are clean, which at this point is not certain).


Prudhomme has said that if he knew about Ras's tests (or non-tests) prior to the start, he would not have let him participate. 

I don't think it was much of a gamble.....if he cracks, the tour wins.....if he doesn't, the tour gets great entertainment.

I also doubt that the results would have been any different with or without Rasmussen.......Contedor, Levi & Evans are the strongest 3 left.

Len


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## Vandizzy (Jul 11, 2007)

will anyone win this years tour?


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## LeDomestique (Jan 17, 2007)

Ok, just jumping to the wagon here (just woke up in Australia to read about this !!)

I understand that there is a shadow over Rass for missing the controls, and that with the current state of professional cycling, we should be extra careful with these matters, BUT:

Rass has been tested dozens of times THIS TOUR, and he came out clear every single time. Why punish him when you have no proof whatsoever of doping?

am I being naive?


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## reklar (Mar 15, 2003)

Len J said:


> Prudhomme has said that if he knew about Ras's tests (or non-tests) prior to the start, he would not have let him participate.
> 
> I don't think it was much of a gamble.....if he cracks, the tour wins.....if he doesn't, the tour gets great entertainment.
> 
> ...


While I agree that those three are the strongest left, I disagree that it was not much of a gamble. I am furious that I spent time watching the toughest stage of the tour, which was won by a man who was subsequently dismissed when he easily could have been dismissed before hand. 

Also, the tactics change w/o Chicken. Levi, as he alluded to in his post-race interview on Versus, could have put more time into Cadel if not having to attack Chicken. Contador wouldn't have blown up trying to drop Chicken and would likely have won the stage. The podium members likely wouldn't be different, but the positions might have been, imo ...


----------



## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

Is it fair (or smart) to start a zero-tolerance policy in the middle of the Tour?



Jesse D Smith said:


> Rasmussen missed a random test. Now we must enforce the strictest penalty for missing a random test or failing to report location information-a zero-tolerance policy.


----------



## wiles (Apr 17, 2005)

*What is the UCI penalty for lying?*

This is the quote from cycling news:

Team manager Theo DeRooy has withdrawn the maillot jaune from the Tour de France. The team fired Rasmussen, who lied to them as to his true whereabouts when he missed his out of competition tests in June. "Wrongly reporting whereabouts is a flagrant violation of UCI rules and is unacceptable," read a statement by the Rabobank team.

What is the UCI penalty for wrongly reporting whereabouts? 2 year ban?

I figure Contador has 1:53 on Evans. He lost 1:04 to him in the last TT.

Who is the favorite on a flat, wide course?

Let the race begin anew!


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## locomotive1 (Jan 26, 2007)

Will any network or cable station even televise the Tour next yaer. I can't see why! I've been riding/racing for 20 years and have had enough of this krap-ROUTING FOR SOMEONE WHO GETS YANKED DUE TO DRUGS OR BLOOD DOPING. Surely Versus has had enough also. The hole thing is now just a clown show. Hey,maybe the Pro Tour should just have MANDATORY DOPING. Every rider can get his dose adninistered at sign in.


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## reklar (Mar 15, 2003)

wiles said:


> This is the quote from cycling news:
> 
> Team manager Theo DeRooy has withdrawn the maillot jaune from the Tour de France. The team fired Rasmussen, who lied to them as to his true whereabouts when he missed his out of competition tests in June. "Wrongly reporting whereabouts is a flagrant violation of UCI rules and is unacceptable," read a statement by the Rabobank team.
> 
> ...


Do Contador and Levi get better time bonuses now? Seriously, the tactics would have been a bit different w/o Chicken so I believe the podium positions are tainted now ...


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## KenS (Jan 28, 2004)

*Poor Boogie-Man*

I pity Boogerd. Boogerd has been on the front working stage after stage. Boogerd is in his last TdF and could have retired knowing that he was a major reason that Rabobank was bringing home the yellow jersey.

Something else is going on behind the scene at Rabobank. You don't fire a rider who hasn't tested positive when the team is on the verge of winning a TdF. The entire team is getting walloped by this move.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

reklar said:


> Do Contador and Levi get better time bonuses now? Seriously, the tactics would have been a bit different w/o Chicken so I believe the podium positions are tainted now ...


The Chicken raced today, and is just deciding not to race tomorrow. Everything he did up to this point remains in the record books, he will just be DNS for stage 17. So all the time bonuses up to this point will stand. At least that's my understanding...


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

KenS said:


> You don't fire a rider who hasn't tested positive when the team is on the verge of winning a TdF.


Some reports indicate the firing was at the insistance of Rababank when they heard about his apparent lies.


----------



## badder2 (Jun 26, 2006)

Here's a quote from the Chicken post race /pre firing concerning doping. Yeah Rasmussen, the anti-doping is working. CYA

========
He said after Wednesday's victory: "I have been booed but there is such a frustration from the fans and the peloton after Vino's positive test and that frustration came down on me." 

"Now I understand what (Lance) Armstrong endured during seven years," Rasmussen said in reference to the seven-times Tour champion who faced several allegations of doping, all of which he strongly denied. 

"I want to add that Vino's positive test shows the anti-doping system works. I have been tested 14 times and never been positive." 
========


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## KenS (Jan 28, 2004)

*it depends on what you mean by "lie"*



Dwayne Barry said:


> Some reports indicate the firing was at the insistance of Rababank when they heard about his apparent lies.


The lies must have been pretty damning and not the "I was training out of kit to avoid autograph seekers" kind of lie.

.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

KenS said:


> The lies must have been pretty damning and not the "I was training out of kit to avoid autograph seekers" kind of lie.
> 
> .


Yeah, they were more of the 'Sorry I forgot to tell you all I was in Mexico, when I was really in Italy' brand of lies...


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## hawker12 (Oct 19, 2003)

I sure hope we don't find out Levi is involved in dog fighting.


----------



## KenS (Jan 28, 2004)

*The Bob/Al replay opening was weird*



rocco said:


> I think the replay with Bob and Al on VS tonight is going to be kind of weird.



The opening was weird. First, there was the "bad news" about VIno. Then it was on to the stage predictions and the talk about the Contador/Chicken/Evans battle. Right in the middle of the happy-talk, there is a one-line crawl in 4-point font about Rasmussen being "released" (I think was the term) by the team and the suggestion to go to versus.com to find out details. If you didn't know what had happened then you could have missed the entire sequence or assumed some contract issue was in play.

[Edit] The word was "removed" not released.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

I don't think there's big money in fighting these things:


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## hawker12 (Oct 19, 2003)

No, but that size makes good eating. 

Steve


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## KenS (Jan 28, 2004)

*Imagine WADA and PETA was after you*



hawker12 said:


> I sure hope we don't find out Levi is involved in dog fighting.


At least you could seek shelter with the Bonsai Society.

Oops! That might not be a good idea either. 

LL: Oh Mistress Bonsai -- please unwire me.

MsBo: Not until those shoulders stop rolling.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*It's taped........*



KenS said:


> The opening was weird. First, there was the "bad news" about VIno. Then it was on to the stage predictions and the talk about the Contador/Chicken/Evans battle. Right in the middle of the happy-talk, there is a one-line crawl in 4-point font about Rasmussen being "released" (I think was the term) by the team and the suggestion to go to versus.com to find out details. If you didn't know what had happened then you could have missed the entire sequence or assumed some contract issue was in play.


in the morning before the stage. Last night there was no mention of VINO.

They are always a day behind any news that breaks after the stage.

Len


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## Chainstay (Mar 13, 2004)

*This is the right thing*



magnolialover said:


> They are getting tougher on doping, and they are finding the cheats. How does this "hurt" their credibility? I think it makes it more profound, or better. Are they finding them all? Of course not, but they are finding a lot more than other professional sports who just turn a blind eye to the whole mantra of doping. I think that the UCI and specific teams in general (T-Mobile for one, Slipstream for another, and CSC) are all doing outstanding work in better controlling their riders and testing them even more than their national bodies are doing, and in turn, are catching the cheaters. It has already happened several times this year that teams specifically pulled riders for the testing that they were doing, and nobody else.


Absolutely the right thing to do. His actions were quite suspicous. Keeping him would have been shameful. It would also be bad for Rabobank as it reflects on their integrity as a corporation. The sport must go through this before it can be clean again. 

Question: Does major league baseball know where Barry Bonds is when he is not playing? What about the other major sports? Do they have any where near the controls and integrity?


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## Frank Tuesday (Jun 1, 2002)

LeDomestique said:


> Rass has been tested dozens of times THIS TOUR, and he came out clear every single time. Why punish him when you have no proof whatsoever of doping?
> 
> am I being naive?


He isn't being punished for doping. He isn't being "punished" at all. He is being fired for breach of contract nor something similar. I assume his contract states that he must abide by all UCI rules and regulations while under contract with the team.


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## ajoc_prez (Jul 14, 2004)

I fully expect for us to find out over the next few days that Contador, LL, Evans, and Sastre are out of the Tour as well. Its almost like I expect it to happen now that Rasmussen and Vino are gone. Who's next? This is getting rediculous!!!


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## hogut (Feb 25, 2006)

I want to see every tour riders hematocrit listed. Let's see if anyone has a more normal hematocrit of 45 or below.


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## Guest (Jul 26, 2007)

I can honestly say, I do not care about the final result of the tour any longer.

I have tried to follow the race by internet while travelling and have enjoyed it, up to this point.

The race has become a farce, a joke.

I will not even bother looking at the final result.

Pro cycling, for me, is over. 

I don't care.

I am done.


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## kjk (Aug 13, 2003)

Chainstay said:


> The sport must go through this before it can be clean again.




I think the real problem is that the sport never has been clean. So how do you fix something that was broken in the first place. The D.S.'s for the teams have all been brought up in a doping culture and it just is a self perpetuating phenomena.


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## shabbasuraj (May 14, 2005)

My boy Rass won that stage flat out. He got fired for a breach of contract... basically paperwork... for all we know... that paperwork and administrative details could have been a major setup...

The guy passes every test... 14 times allegedly...

The guy wins the toughest tour stage...

..and all of a sudden he get booted for some paperwork mis-cues..???

...what hapened to all that confidentiality stuff... Danish Cylcing federation vs. ASO. vs UCI...

it is all politics at this point..

now you know why in the US the station is called VERSUS...

there is something else missing from this story...

WTF?


le tour is absolutely RID-DONK-ULOUS!!!!


I so not care who wins... it is all a sham.... 


there is more to this story that is not being reported...


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## jpap (Jun 21, 2006)

shabbasuraj said:


> My boy Rass won that stage flat out. He got fired for a breach of contract... basically paperwork... for all we know... that paperwork and administrative details could have been a major setup...
> 
> The guy passes every test... 14 times allegedly...
> 
> ...






Have you been reading all the posts or are you turning a blind eye to the facts. A month before the tour he disappears so he can't be found and can't be tested.


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## dwwheels (Feb 28, 2007)

James OCLV said:


> Do you believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that whomever eventually wins this Tour won it clean?


If the eliminations/withdrawals continue down to Thomas Voekler then I am sure we have a clean winner.:mad2:


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## Guest (Jul 26, 2007)

jpap said:


> Have you been reading all the posts or are you turning a blind eye to the facts. A month before the tour he disappears so he can't be found and can't be tested.


A month.

His team knew all of the facts, killed their guys to support him in this tour, then fired him before the end.

They have not come to terms on a contract.

There is NO new knowledge here, none.

It is posturing.

It is politics and game playing. The bike race has become a side show.

Who cares any longer.

I do not, after 30 years of following the ups and downs, I don't care what the result is.


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## p lo (Sep 26, 2002)

*tests*

has it ever really been said that WADA tried to find him in mexico to test him and he was unable to be found and missed the test?


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## shabbasuraj (May 14, 2005)

jpap said:


> Have you been reading all the posts or are you turning a blind eye to the facts. A month before the tour he disappears so he can't be found and can't be tested.



yes.. this looks real bad.. politics and posturing.. Rabo knew all of this stuff prior.... the Danish Cycling Fed. knew all this stuff.. but o yeah.. NOW ,, RIGHT NOW AND AFTER the stage... NOW IS THE TIME to terminate Rass...


sure... pal... to think that this issue is cut and dry is completely misleading....


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## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

LeDomestique said:


> Rass has been tested dozens of times THIS TOUR, and he came out clear every single time. Why punish him when you have no proof whatsoever of doping?
> 
> am I being naive?


I believe you're being naive in believing a negative test says you don't dope. All it says is that you didn't test positive for whatever they're testing for.


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## edhchoe (Jun 3, 2007)

Nobody is gonna win this tour. They will award the guy who finishes the last. Rasmussen's breakaway was just too out of ordinary. He had to be on something.:thumbsup: The Disco guys had better not make things that obvious if they don't want to get caught. Levi has been doing real well. He has been saying "it was a tough day" everyday!


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## Slartibartfast (Jul 22, 2007)

And I ask again, is his oft-mentioned wife from Mexico hot, or not?


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## snowman3 (Jul 20, 2002)

shabbasuraj said:


> yes.. this looks real bad.. politics and posturing.. Rabo knew all of this stuff prior.... the Danish Cycling Fed. knew all this stuff.. but o yeah.. NOW ,, RIGHT NOW AND AFTER the stage... NOW IS THE TIME to terminate Rass...
> sure... pal... to think that this issue is cut and dry is completely misleading....


Ughh! Just catching up on the days news and heard about Ras. Ugh. My gut tells me it was a witch hunt. LeTour officials have publicly expressed their displeasure. So I'm sure the Danes were researching the case a little more closely the past couple of days. Maybe they did come up w/ some new info... maybe not. 

I completely agree that dopers should be fired and removed from the race. But.... I'm worried it has become a bit of a lynch mob. (Rabo gets pressure from LeTour and then has to go find a "good" reason to ditch Ras). Even though the 4 missed tests didn't qualify due to a technicality, I don't like the attitude of "Well, it's just a technicality, so we'll just toss him anyhow". C'mon, if you want the riders to have integrity, show some integrity and follow the letter of the rules. Can't believe I'm saying this, but if he has to leave the tour, I'd feel better if he tested positive rather than being tossed for some retro-active contract violation.


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## BlurRoubaix (Jan 8, 2005)

In part - kudos to cycling for taking doping. Heavan's knows the NFL, NBA, NHL and baseball leagues don't deal with it. That being said, man I'm bummed. Last year I was bummed to hear about Landis and this year I'm disgusted even more. Test them all, every day. Enough is enough. Make them pay for their own. Test dirty - out for life.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Chainstay said:


> Absolutely the right thing to do. His actions were quite suspicous. Keeping him would have been shameful. It would also be bad for Rabobank as it reflects on their integrity as a corporation. The sport must go through this before it can be clean again.
> 
> Question: Does major league baseball know where Barry Bonds is when he is not playing? What about the other major sports? Do they have any where near the controls and integrity?


Without a doubt, no. And that's for soccer, track and field and a whole heck of other sports too.

That said, soccer players in europe (the elite leagues at least) get tested after every game if I'm not wrong.

I'm just not sure why doping is so prevalent in cycling as compared to other sports, even though it's not as stringent in other sports so to speak. But, then again, look at track and field - people dope in the off season and dont compete till the drugs wear out and then, when they do race, it's better performances that they put up because of all the effects the drugs have in helping them run better, run longer, run more, fatigue less and hence, train harder in the off season. Track athletes are only tested after every race so if they don't compete, they won't be tested. 
Those dumb enough to be caught get 2 year bans for the first time and usually a life ban upon the second conviction. 


Soccer has its dopers but it's pretty low key and the testing is pretty good with it done usually after every game played. Not enough time for dope to be removed by the body naturally or even artificially. In the off season, well, that's a different thing altogether. Although, soccer stars are looked upon as idols by their fans if this has anything to do with it.

What about tennis? 

The NFL and NBA and NHL?


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

argylesocks said:


> haha.... that actually doesn sound too far fetched.


It IS the French you know....


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Pablo said:


> If the point is to clean up the sport, it will take time. Rome can't be re-built overnight.


Wasn't Rome built in a week?


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## ddmiller67 (Jul 20, 2007)

pjxndvm said:


> To my knowlegde there is no test for this compound. Does anyone have any info on any test available for this product?


Hemopure is a cow-based hemoglobin, therefore testing for it wouldn't be tough. Simple antibody test or an array. Heck, the drug creates measurable antibodies in a percentage of patients.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

IAmCosmo said:


> Yeah, I see your point there.
> 
> But why now? Why when he's only days away from possibly winning? They knew way before the Tour. Just seems like bad timing.
> 
> Don't get me wrong... I'd love to see a rider from Discovery win. Just seems fishy the whole timing of it...


He isn't positive for anything now right? I don't know, it just seems a tad unfair to him that despite no positive tests from him, he's kicked out.

I mean, sure, he wasn't available for testing in those months etc etc etc...

Actually, ok I'm wrong. He should be pulled out of the tour. But being fired? Well, that's a tad harsh. Maybe.

Rio Ferdinand of Manchester United was banned for 8 months for just missing a drugs test because he forgot about it and went to see adoctor or something like that. He wasn't positive. He just missed ONE freaking test. 

So yeah, I think Rasmussen should be pulled out of the Tour. Although he might be clean (at least during this period, if not all the while), he should be pulled out to indicate that missing a test is not acceptable as well and lying about his whereabouts further implicates his actions and intentions, although there is no conclusive evidence to suggest he did so to avoid being caught. Maybe Rabbo should have just suspended his pay or fine him rather heftily but to fire him, well, it just says that they don't trust him at all and that might indicate that he could be guilty and that they are in fact, helping to cover him up perhaps. It could be either one of the two and I'm not placing any wagers on this one.

That said, it's been done and is sad for him and the sport. I hope he's clean during the Tour at least so we know his efforts were all from his own intestinal fortitude and prowess. While I really wanted Contador to win, I didn't want it to be done this way. Still, I hope Rasmussen comes up clean nonetheless and that he can put this episode behind him.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

mbcracken said:


> As for why now...
> 
> I remember Paul or Phil saying something, when the Chicken missing the failing to report hit the news, about the Danes not liking the French racing and might be making this move to make the Tour look bad in order to draw attention to other European races. Again this is horrible speculation and i am looking for other reasons as to this timing...
> 
> ...


Why now? Well, Rasmussen was clearly in very strong contention to win the _maillot jaune_ come the Champs-Elysees so they didn't want another winner to be implicated and tainted with all these accusations (accusations are one thing and it's not too bad in a way) and all the grey areas that clearly point to something amiss, even though there is no conclusive evidence on this. Better now than when he wins the Tour and there is an overwhelming call for him to be stripped of the title, despite the fact he might be clean during this Tour.


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## ddmiller67 (Jul 20, 2007)

MikeBiker said:


> That'll teach Rasmussen to sleep through geography. Mexico, Italy, what' the difference. Maybe his wife is really Italian not Mexican.


OK, that's hysterical!:thumbsup:


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## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

shabbasuraj said:


> My boy Rass won that stage flat out. He got fired for a breach of contract... basically paperwork... for all we know... that paperwork and administrative details could have been a major setup...
> 
> The guy passes every test... 14 times allegedly...


It's easy to pass doping tests when you don't actually take them.

Can you imagine Rabobank's humiliation if Chicken won the Tour and was found to have doped after the fact? Two yellow jerseys in a row? This is the suxxors but better now than after his win was "official."

It covers their asses, as well as sends a positive message to the cycling community that teams are starting to police themselves.

I just feel bad for Michael Boogerd. He's been busting his butt for Chicken.

Btw, I'd been maintaining with a friend of mine that Chicken was doping, based on :

1) His miracle TT
2) His own statement, prior to the TT, that he didn't do much TT training
3) His missing tests


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

well, gang my day as TDF fan is coming to an end. you can continue to watch or cheer. i'll just be a normal commuter who enjoy riding bike [ depress ] GL and good night. i'll still chime in about other cycling topics but NOT TDF-relate story.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

I agree wih them pulling him out. But why now? And by this, I don't mean don't do it. I mean, why let him start? (Rabbo)

That's my inquiry. Why let him start in the first place when he already has been doing all these before the Tour? Unless they only JUST found out about him lying about his wehereabouts like now and not prior to the start of the tour. If the latter is the case, then yeah, ok fine, pull him out now. But if they already know about him lying before the tour, what the effin hell are they doing lettin him start? Bunch of idiotic moreons alright if that was the case. 

Nonetheless, at least he has been clean for whatever they are testing for in each of his tests post stage. Not that this matters much but hey, at least he ain't positive for doping.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

I think they just found out he was lying after stage 16.

Before that he was in Mexico, but forgot to tell everyone. Now they learned that story was completely fabricated. Rabobank cut him off immediately.


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

"... the truth is out there..." (cue music)

FYI: the lowdown on the good doping programmes is to train on the dope and benefit from the effects of the PED's to build strength, store blood and re-transfuse it during the race -- this type of doping, when done correctly, is difficult (but not impossible) to detect.

Millar, Ulrich, and Basso also never failed a d-test -- but that didn't mean they were juicing, does it?


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

badder2 said:


> Surely Chickens passport will tell where he was in June. Perhaps that is what Rabobank got and it confirmed there suspicions on his June schedule.


Maybe he has 2 different passports and showed the one where he went to Meh hee co for one day... 

I'm not really getting it either... Yeah won't his passports show it?


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

goose127 said:


> I think you really have to nail Rabobank mgt on this one. How can a I guy miss a bunch of controls and you let him start this race. This race had a black mark due to Vino. But now the results are bastardized by this crap with Chicken Man. These last three races would have been raced differently without his prescence let alone in the alps. All of these selfish clowns are screwing the sport from top to the cat 5s at the local parking lot crit. eff 'em



Indeed.

I'm still wondering why the hell was he allowed to start?????

What? They didn't think he would win initially and hence allowed him to start and now that he is probablly gonna win they pull him out to show they are doing a good job in a zero tolerance policy? WTF???

Ok, great thay they pulled him out. But surely they couldnt have only known this only now???


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

DrRoebuck said:


> It's easy to pass doping tests when you don't actually take them.
> 
> Can you imagine Rabobank's humiliation if Chicken won the Tour and was found to have doped after the fact? Two yellow jerseys in a row? This is the suxxors but better now than after his win was "official."
> 
> ...


He actually said he had been working on his TT a little bit to improve on it. So yeah.. 

Just saying here.


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## merckxman (Jan 23, 2002)

*Tour de Farce*

What the race is being called on European news channels this morning.


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## rensho (Aug 5, 2003)

My take is that the Sponsor leaned on the team, after the Danes stated their displeasure. The team was put in a position they couldn't refuse. Since the first press release a few days ago was poorly timed, that showed they didn't give a rat's ass if Rass won TdF. So this very cool stage win, they certain don't care about either.

I hate this. It was really exciting.

The Yellow jersey is tested every day of the race right, along with the top few stage places each day?


----------



## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

Allegedly, Rasmussen's removal/firing resulted after Rabobank learned that Rasmussen was in Italy and not Mexico and Rasmussen had been lying all along. Let's analyze this:

The source of this information is allegedly a person, I think a rider and/or friend of Rasmussen, that claims to have seen Rasmussen in Italy. Unless this person knew back then that Rasmussen was supposed to be in Mexico, it is reasonable to assume that this person did not know of any wrongdoing until after the Tour started and after the story about missing journals came out. Thus, prior to the Tour, it is reasonable to conclude that no one knew Rasmussen was lying about his whereabouts. It also seems reasonable that Rasmussen was simply given the benefit of the doubt regarding turning in his journals late. After all, while suspicious, forgetting the journals could easily have been a simple oversight. 

I don't really blame Rabobank. The smoking gun is the lying, and that was probably not known until well after the Tour began.


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## rensho (Aug 5, 2003)

If you read this article, it starts to really point at the sponsor/board as the people insisting on having him out. The quote about lying from the board member makes no sense. We need to know more of the details of the actual 'lies'.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul26news2


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

uzziefly said:


> I agree wih them pulling him out. But why now?


Because Davide Cassani, ex-rider, current RAI broadcaster revealed that he saw him in Italy in June when Rasmussen has told everyone he was in Mexico at the time, just coincidentily this was during a 22 day straight period when the dope testing agencies didn't know where he was.

Doesn't anyone read the actual news?

Whether Rabobank knew about his deceit or not we don't know, but the public now knows.


----------



## alexedge (Jul 13, 2007)

Everyone seems so ****ing confused about this. Let me break it down into a cliff's notes version:

*Prior to today:* Everyone knew that Rasmussen had missed some off-season tests, because no one at his team knew where to find him when the testers came looking for him. He later stated that he was in Mexico with his wife. The missed tests caused suspicion on the part of the media, fans, UCI, and Tour orgranizers, but his team backs him because they believe that he was in Mexico and the whole thing was just an accident.

*Today:* Eyewitness statement put Rasmussen in ITALY training during the time he claimed he was in Mexico. Supposedly he was training with an as-yet-unnamed DOCTOR. His team now believes he WAS in Italy and lied to them about his whereabouts, they no long trust him and decide to fire him.

OK, I hope that clears things up for everyone yelling "nothing has changed since yesterday, why fire him now, they knew he missed the tests before the Tour started!"








Here's the rub: as most people are saying, it just doesn't make sense that Rabobank would fire the yellow jersey after he had all but won the race, merely because someone said "I saw Rasmussen in Italy!" Could be mistaken identity, etc. Also, where would they get the information about the doctor? There are three possibilities that I see, and all of them involve more information than has been publicly released:

1. As one poster speculated, a friend or fellow rider saw Rasmussen in Italy during the "Mexico" period. It seems likely that they talked, since that would rule out the possibility of mistaken identity, and also account for where the "doctor" information came from: perhaps the friend asked Rasmussen what he as doing in italy, and he said "training with my doctor" or something. This would also account for why the info didn't come out pre-tour: again, as the other poster speculated, the friend may not have have realized anything until a few days ago, when the info came out about Rasmussen missing the tests while supposedly in Mexico. Then he realized "hey, Rasmussen wasn't in Mexico, I saw him in Italy!" and came forward.

2. A credible witness claims to have seen Ras in Italy; team contronts Ras, who breaks down and confesses that he was in Italy, and why (doctor). I mean, come on, leading the tour and being almost for sure to win it has to be hugely stressful psychologically, not not mention leading while wondering, if you do win, how long it will take for them to check your passport and credit card bills, figure out you were in Italy not Mexico, and strip the yellow jersey in shame!

3. Could be WAY more going on than is publicly known: possibly some faction (refer to the list of suspicious factions early in post) has been investigating Rasmussen's whereabouts during the pre-race doping checks ever since the news about his missed tests broke a few days ago, and they came up with damning information that proved he had lied to everyone, information placing him in Italy with a suspicious doctor. Possibly they released this information to the UCI or Tour organizers, who then passed it on to Rabobank to give them a chance to handle it themselves. Or the investigator passed it directly to Rabobank. Or the investigator was Rabobank.


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## barrym (Jul 15, 2007)

uzziefly said:


> I agree wih them pulling him out. But why now? And by this, I don't mean don't do it. I mean, why let him start? (Rabbo)
> 
> That's my inquiry. Why let him start in the first place when he already has been doing all these before the Tour? Unless they only JUST found out about him lying about his wehereabouts like now and not prior to the start of the tour. If the latter is the case, then yeah, ok fine, pull him out now. But if they already know about him lying before the tour, what the effin hell are they doing lettin him start? Bunch of idiotic moreons alright if that was the case.
> 
> Nonetheless, at least he has been clean for whatever they are testing for in each of his tests post stage. Not that this matters much but hey, at least he ain't positive for doping.


Just heard Paul Kimmage on radio, he has consistently said it lies with 'the authorities' to sort this out BUT, the authorities are the same people who were there over the last 10+ years and are therefore implicated. He makes the point re Cofidis - they purported to be insisting on a clean team, and have withdrawn when one of their riders is caught. Kimmage says that is a cop-out, they should have been doing their own testing since a long way back and seeing any changes.... so, he says, they are complicit....

Ditto for Rasmussen, as you imply, the Rabobank management should have supported out of competition tests and dumped riders who missed any. 

Apropos the post earlier about fooling the tests by being doped before you start testing... The solution? a medical screening from the day you start racing in UCI approved races, even as an amateur, so then there is a profile which is regularly updated. If the UCI or someone in charge doesn't institute something like this they can forget it..... 

It is obvious that sponsors will pull out, what bets Cofidis is the first?? 

Bye, Barry


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## alexedge (Jul 13, 2007)

rensho said:


> If you read this article, it starts to really point at the sponsor/board as the people insisting on having him out. The quote about lying from the board member makes no sense. We need to know more of the details of the actual 'lies'.
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul26news2


OK, that article answers a lot of questions.

Two days ago, when the team still believed Rasmussen's statement that he was in Mexico from June 4-26, they held the "administrative errors" press conference, basically explaining why he had missed the tests: "He was in Mexico, somehow there was an administrative error and we didn't know where he was, but now we do, and he wasn't doing anything wrong" more or less.

Davide Cassani sees that press conference and realizes "I saw Ras in the Dolomites on the 13th and 14th, I have witnesses/video/other proof, he's an effin liar!" Passes this info on.

Rabobank's position is now totally different: instead of thinking it was all a mistake, they now have to conclude that Rasmussen deceived not just the dope testers, but his OWN TEAM, about his whereabouts in June. Thus they must assume he was doing something in Italy he did not want anyone, even his team, to know about - i.e. doping.

Now they HAVE to fire him, since ethically, if they are sure he was doping pre-Tour and they still support him and he wins, they are just as responsible as he is...


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

What's there to know -- Rass was adamant to Rabo about being in Mexico, Rabo hears that he was in fact in Italy, Rabo asks Rass if he was indeed in Italy, Rass admits he was in Italy, Rabo fires him for lying through his teeth about where he was (and why he missed the 4 out-of-competition dope tests).


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

Well Rass admited he was lying about his wherabouts... not a good thing to be caught doing by your boss:

"When Rasmussen was confronted with this information he confirmed to [team manager] Theo de Rooy he was at that moment in Italy," 

from cycling.news


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## collarboneclub (Aug 22, 2006)

it was a sad day in our house, our Danish exchange student is heartbroken. he and my son were getting ready for their training ride when the news broke, he simply said "I no longer want to ride". THAT upsets me. the members of the TdF peloton are looked up to by the club racers and their trust in them is damaged. alexedge has the most important point, where in the past much of the doping was a team thing for want of a better term it now appears that it is an individual thing. entire teams are being punished for the actions of one member, add to that the the non-riding members of the team. i do believe the corner may be turning, the outcry from other riders, something that was rarely very evident in the past, has reached a crescendo. you can feel the anger through the interviews and that is what i believe will eventually do the work of eliminating thew dopers. it will no longer be acceptable to dope and the racers will police themselves along with the anti-agencies. riders will examine the taems that give them an offer and evaluate the other members of the team. you know that there has to whispers among the riders about this that we will never hear about


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## kingpin (Jul 5, 2005)

*Who cares!*

I love the sport and count down the days to the tour every year, however, I watch it for the enterainment value. I could care less if they all are on the pipe as long as they provide me with MY fix. All this is but a slight distraction and a mess for the Discovery team with two riders in the top three. Will Levi try to unseat Alberto? I say let them all take performance enhancing drugs they want, but get on with the show.


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

*More popular with networks!*



locomotive1 said:


> Will any network or cable station even televise the Tour next yaer. I can't see why! I've been riding/racing for 20 years and have had enough of this krap-ROUTING FOR SOMEONE WHO GETS YANKED DUE TO DRUGS OR BLOOD DOPING. Surely Versus has had enough also. The hole thing is now just a clown show. Hey,maybe the Pro Tour should just have MANDATORY DOPING. Every rider can get his dose adninistered at sign in.


I'm willing to bet they have no problem televising the Tour. US TV is more drawn to scandal then sport. TO was a disgrace to football, yet the more disgraceful he became, the more Cowboy/Eagle games became nationally televised. Any network would be drooling at the chance to cover an even where major controversary is more likely to occur.


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## waitforme (Jan 20, 2007)

collarboneclub said:


> i do believe the corner may be turning, the outcry from other riders, something that was rarely very evident in the past, has reached a crescendo. you can feel the anger through the interviews and that is what i believe will eventually do the work of eliminating thew dopers. it will no longer be acceptable to dope and the racers will police themselves along with the anti-agencies. riders will examine the taems that give them an offer and evaluate the other members of the team. you know that there has to whispers among the riders about this that we will never hear about


Good points - the fight against doping will reach a tipping point when cyclists no longer dope because everyone else is doing it, and I think, I hope, we've reached that point.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

What I don't like about it is the timing. Rabobank let him win the deciding stage- that some people on the West Coast got up at 3:30 in the morning to watch live (I'm one of them). They let Discovery waste their two best riders trying to crack him, all so that he could zip up his jersey just before crossing the finish line to get Rabobank's name plastered all over the world. Then they try to pretend they're the good guys by getting rid of a 'dirty' rider (who apparently didn't fail an test) and got their name out there again. According to Phil Legget's commentary on the Versus web site it was "common knowledge" that Rasmussen was training in Italy. If so, then either there was an innocent explanation (traveling to see relatives and coming back to train) or he was trying to duck doping controls, Rabobank knew it, and chose their moment to give themselves as much publicity as possible, and to heck with the other teams and their strategies as well as Rasmussen himself. As Levi said after the race, he wouldn't have ridden like that just to put time into Evans, it was because Rasmussen was there.


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## pacific493 (Nov 15, 2006)

I'm done with the tour. I loved watching Lance's victories, loved watching the tour last year, and have loved following this year's tour, but I'm finished with it. It's just become a complete joke.


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## 52-16SS (Dec 16, 2002)

Latest news is that MR denies having lied about his whereabouts still maintaining that he was in Mexico for said duration!! (Danish paper BT)


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

That's what he said last night (I read the Danish paper as well) but Rabobank asked him and he admitted being in the Alps for "some of the time". How could he not? Rabobank had pictures of him training there taken by Cassani. Ra$$hole is the new Virenque in my book (and that is *not* a good thing!)... how long do we have to wait for him to tearfully admit (in a court of law?) that he was doping?


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## Spongedog (Aug 6, 2005)

*You must understand the Dutch*

Having worked for a Dutch company for several years, I learned that nothing comes before business, except maybe building dikes (which of course protect their business interests). 

When the Dutch managers at Rabobank realized that their image would be tarnished and it could possibly cost them a few Euros, then the decision was done. For Rabobank, the decision was purely financial.


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## shabbasuraj (May 14, 2005)

Yay that makes 2 years in a row where the podium at le tour is gonna have an asterisk..

..what a great professional sport...!!!!!!!!!

...talk about the integrity of the outcome...

i guess this is the new age of our sport.. ANYONE ON ANY TEAM can win ANY RACE.. 

..based on politics...speculation, .. postulation... all of these things are part of our beloved sport...

this is the norm... I have accepted that... and will assume that ANY AND ALL future tours will be the same.....

woohoo!!!!!!!


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## Sixty Fiver (Jul 7, 2007)

Doping is rife in professional sports although most professional dopers will use banned substances in the off season (when no tests are done) to increase performance.

Just because they are jocks doesn't mean they are dumb jocks.

The NHL has had two players test positive for banned substances although these players were being tested by their national teams and not the NHL... because of this they can still play in the NHL but have been banned from international play for a period of 2 years.

The NHL has administered over 1400 tests since they implemented their anti-doping policy and have found no violations.

If they were to test in the off season I think they they might get different results, as would other professional organizations.


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## collarboneclub (Aug 22, 2006)

in many cases i don't think the teams/organizations/managers want to find out about doping. a couple of extra goals in a game, a few more home runs in a series, a bit more excitement about setting another world record all means increased revenues. a bit of the old wink-wink, nod-nod goes on with many other professional american sports. cyclings 'doping problem' arises, i think, from their very aggresive testing and rules. seems that track and field is closest to cycling, and they have a 'doping problem' also


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## GraniteX (Sep 21, 2006)

collarboneclub said:


> cyclings 'doping problem' arises, i think, from their very aggresive testing and rules. seems that track and field is closest to cycling, and they have a 'doping problem' also


Yeah. And cycling and track and field NEED to be aggressive because doping is more directly related to results. We are watching competition between human engines and doping has potential to increase the size of that engine. 

Sure we all know there is an immense amount of tactics and skill involved, but when it comes down to a 3 or 4 man drag race up the Col d’Aubisque, it's mostly a matter of engine power. 

As opposed to sports like baseball, tennis and golf, where I think skills are involved that are not so easily improved through chemistry. Admittedly this is not b&w (Look at Barry Bonds) but I think this explains why drug use is so attractive to bike racers, and so awful to most fans. And why the future credibility of the sport depends on getting it under control.


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## collarboneclub (Aug 22, 2006)

you have a valid point granite, did not think of it that way but now that you mention it i have to agree


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