# How can you truly know if a frame purchased from ebay is authentic?



## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

Hey guys,

All my past bikes have been purchased from LBSs....Specialized and Wilier bikes. 

Anyways, recently I took the plunge and purchased an S-works frameset on ebay. I realize there is always that inherent risk when you purchase from ebay. The seller had over 9000+ sales since 2001 and has a 99.9% rating....that's pretty damn good for that many transactions. I read a lot of the feedbacks and many stated that the seller was "honest" with "good communication". That's usually what I look for from a seller. 

Before I purchased, I researched on line things to look out for with "fake" S-works framesets. I realized these are not sure fire ways to determine authenticity but it's a start:

1. It has the 27.2 mm seat post 
2. It has the pressfit bb30 bottom bracket
3. No removable slapped on stickers
4. The typical tapered head tube measurements are correct

Now, the only reason I am concerned is because there are no serial numbers on the bottom. There is no quality control initials either. In retrospect, I should've ask about this prior to purchase!

I contacted the seller, and he was quick to respond. He said that I would be fully reimbursed IF the frame is a "fake". He purchased from another seller and of course was told 100% authentic. I do believe that the guy who sold it to me thought it was authentic. Again, he said he would reimburse me if it is a knockoff. 

So, I am trying to find out if it is authentic or not. Any other tips to tell whether it is authentic or not? I will bring the frameset into an authorized Specialized dealership in my area and have them inspect it.

BTW: here is the link to the auction: Specialized s Works Tarmac SL3 Frame Fork 54cm Frameset No Reserve | eBay


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## 768Q (Jun 23, 2012)

I would be very very suspicious with NO serial number, I have been watching recently for a deal on a Pinarello or Wilier on ebay for a while and when I ask the seller the question of it has a serial # or picture of it I get NO response were as they generally seem to respond in a timely fashion to just about any other question.

Good Luck and I hope the LBS has good news for you on this.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

768Q said:


> I would be very very suspicious with NO serial number, I have been watching recently for a deal on a Pinarello or Wilier on ebay for a while and when I ask the seller the question of it has a serial # or picture of it I get NO response were as they generally seem to respond in a timely fashion to just about any other question.
> 
> Good Luck and I hope the LBS has good news for you on this.


Yeah I agree. A slow response to a basic question is a RED FLAG. And yes, no serial number is a big RED FLAG too. Again, I really wished I had asked about this prior :mad2: In my situation, I honestly do feel that the seller believed that he was selling a legitimate/authentic Specialized S-works frameset. Maybe he got had from the seller he purchased the frameset from. At this point, I am just trying to find signs that this frameset may not be authentic. Once I come up with obvious reasons, then I will present this to the seller and get reimbursed. This seller just doesn't seem to be a flyby ebayer....quick money and then disappear. You can see from the link above that he has been around for awhile. Anyways, hope it turns out okay b/c I have been searching for this color scheme in my size for awhile. But if it is a knockoff....lessen learned.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

Just received an email from the seller after he contacted the guy who sold him the frameset. Below is what he wrote:


Hey Tony, here is the response I got from the guy I bought the bike from. He also has 100% feedback on eBay and seems to be a legit nice guy willing to help and provide any information... 

These are his words...
"it is not a fake. the bike was a team issued S-Works from Cynergy Cycles in Santa Monica California and was painted at CyclArt in Vista California. They are the largest Specialized dealership in the country. the bike's original paint was taken down to the carbon fiber and then was painted a matte black to give you that iridescent look of the natural carbon fiber when in the sun. It was custom painted that way and lets you see natural look underneath. I would not sell a fake and would not tarnish my 100% feedback by trying to scam someone into thinking otherwise. 

thank you"


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## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

I live about a mile from Cynergy Cycles in Santa Monica. They are an S-Works dealer with several $10k+ Specialized bikes in stock at any given time. The employees are pretty friendly. I would get the original owner's name and try calling them to substantiate the story.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

Dunbar said:


> I live about a mile from Cynergy Cycles in Santa Monica. They are an S-Works dealer with several $10k+ Specialized bikes in stock at any given time. The employees are pretty friendly. I would get the original owner's name and try calling them to substantiate the story.


Thank you. That is a good idea. I will pursue that. I guess it's plausible to remove serial number sticker during the paint process!?!?!?


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## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

Cni2i said:


> I guess it's plausible to remove serial number sticker during the paint process!?!?!?


To do a thorough paint job you'd want to remove the sticker on the bottom of the down tube with the S/N on it. If the story is true, they would have painted over the S/N that is located under the bottom bracket on my Roubaix where the derailleur cable guides are.


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## Hooben (Aug 22, 2004)

I can tell you without a doubt that the team issued frames have no serial numbers at all. My CAAD Cannondale has no serial numbers and was used for one year on a southern california based racing team.
View attachment 275296


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

Hooben said:


> I can tell you without a doubt that the team issued frames have no serial numbers at all. My CAAD Cannondale has no serial numbers and was used for one year on a southern california based racing team.
> View attachment 275296


Thank you Hooben! That's great to know. At least the information I've been receiving appears consistent. 

Again, everything about the frameset looks like an authentic S-works, but I got nervous when there was no S/N sticker.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

If someone could fake a whole frame I don't think they'd have any problem putting a serial number on it. I can see checking out if you got a fake but finding a serial number probably isn't a reliable way to do that.


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## eriku16 (Jul 27, 2011)

Just from observation, a couple of things I found wrong that would indicate that ebay frame as a fake. Man, those tube shapes do not look right especially the seat tube..

1. Non replaceable derailleur hanger. The Real S-Works SL3's have them.
2. Seat tube to chainstay transition is abrupt and not a smooth arc as the real one.
3. Left rear drop out area too thin and shaped not right.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

Well the seller sent me an email with the original owner's contact information and name. I called him and spoke to him for a good 15 minutes. Apparently he purchased several team issued frame sets from Cynergy Cycles. I tried calling Cynergy to validate but just got an answering machine. He even mentioned the name of the owner of Cynergy that would be able to vouch for his purchases from them. 

At this point, I really don't know what else I could do to validate that this is an authentic SL3 S-works. It seems that everything thus far checks out. 

The guy who sold it to me said if I didn't want it, I can just send it back and he'll refund me the $ and shipping cost. I really like the cool paint job on this frameset.....looks really good in person (especially in the sunlight), not just the typical matte Project Black paint. I will still bring her into the local Specialized dealership just to check out.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

eriku16 said:


> Just from observation, a couple of things I found wrong that would indicate that ebay frame as a fake. Man, those tube shapes do not look right especially the seat tube..
> 
> 1. Non replaceable derailleur hanger. The Real S-Works SL3's have them.
> 2. Seat tube to chainstay transition is abrupt and not a smooth arc as the real one.
> 3. Left rear drop out area too thin and shaped not right.


Thank you. This is the type of information/observation that I was looking for. Am I correct in assuming then that team-issued frame sets have the same make-up as the ones sold to the public? Or can they differ? Just wondering.


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## scottma (May 18, 2012)

That non removable der hanger is a huge red flag to me.

2010 S-WORKS frame
Genuine S-WORKS








Ebay S-WORKS
View attachment 275303


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## eriku16 (Jul 27, 2011)

Cni2i said:


> Thank you. This is the type of information/observation that I was looking for. Am I correct in assuming then that team-issued frame sets have the same make-up as the ones sold to the public? Or can they differ? Just wondering.


It's just that bottom bracket cluster looks so off to me. Even on Cancellara's and Contador's 2010 SL3 frames, they have the same shape as the commercial offerings. Not having a replaceable hanger makes no sense either. To be honest, I would not know if that frame you have is a test or prototype. I seriously doubt it though.


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## Gumbyman (May 3, 2011)

I googled "2010 SL3 Tarmac" and in the pictures they all appear to have replacable hangers.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

Okay guys. Thanks for ALL the feed backs. Here is what I found out in the end.....

1. I will be getting a refund.
2. The frame is not a "fake" specialized frameset, but it's not an SL3 as advertised. 
3. It's actually turns out to be a team-issued SL2 (which if you do some research, had the integrated rear derailleur hanger). 

Luckily for me, both the original owner and the guy who sold me the frame were cooperative. I will pack the frameset up tonight and send it back first thing on Monday. It's kind of scary to send something back before getting your refund....but I guess that's just the way it goes. 

In the end, this was a bittersweet experience. I had been searching for a matte black SL3 for awhile in my size (54). Thought I finally found one....but obviously didn't. Again, I am thankful for the informative feedbacks from RBR members. You guys have saved me more than once over the years. Should've started this thread BEFORE purchasing. Oh well....lessen learned. 

Now the search continues. Anyone know of an SL4 in race black size 54 available?


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

Cni2i said:


> Okay guys. Thanks for ALL the feed backs. Here is what I found out in the end.....
> 
> 1. I will be getting a refund.
> 2. The frame is not a "fake" specialized frameset, but it's not an SL3 as advertised.
> ...


Sorry to hear about the frame. Good thing the seller is so cooperative (probably a little embarrassed too). I would really feel bad for you except you're still riding the Zero.7 :thumbsup:


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

redondoaveb said:


> Sorry to hear about the frame. Good thing the seller is so cooperative (probably a little embarrassed too). I would really feel bad for you except you're still riding the Zero.7 :thumbsup:


Yeah Redondoaveb:

Will take my zero.7 out for a long hard ride tomorrow to work out some of the frustrations 😉 and yes, it's the real deal.


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

Cni2i said:


> Yeah Redondoaveb:
> 
> Will take my zero.7 out for a long hard ride tomorrow to work out some of the frustrations 😉 and yes, it's the real deal.


Yeah, I can imagine what you're going through. I bet you'll really appreciate the Wilier after the let down you've had. 

By the way, have you ever posted pics of the Zero.7? And I don't mean the crappy cell phone pics.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

redondoaveb said:


> Yeah, I can imagine what you're going through. I bet you'll really appreciate the Wilier after the let down you've had.
> 
> By the way, have you ever posted pics of the Zero.7? And I don't mean the crappy cell phone pics.


You are correct....really appreciate a well built frame and bike in the zero.7. As for your second comment, yes I have posted several pictures of my Zero.7 in the Wilier bike owner's section (Other makes). And unfortunately yes, "crappy" iphone photos 

Believe or not, I do own an SLR camera...just too lazy to take it out for quick pics.


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

Cni2i said:


> You are correct....really appreciate a well built frame and bike in the zero.7. As for your second comment, yes I have posted several pictures of my Zero.7 in the Wilier bike owner's section (Other makes). And unfortunately yes, "crappy" iphone photos
> 
> Believe or not, I do own an SLR camera...just too lazy to take it out for quick pics.


I was at one of the many LBS's in the area a few months back and they had a Zero.7 they were blowing out. Campy Super Record and Zipp 404's. Just under $7,000.00. I'm so glad it wasn't my size because I would have gone done to the nearest bank (and made an illegal withdrawal). 

Saw your pics of all your Wilier's on the "other builders" forum. Sweet bike(s)!


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Cni2i said:


> painted at CyclArt in Vista California. They are the largest Specialized dealership in the country. the bike's original paint was taken down to the carbon fiber and then was painted a matte black to give you that iridescent look of the natural carbon fiber when in the sun. It was custom painted that way and lets you see natural look underneath


This contradicts what he says in his EBay ad. 



> This frame was custom painted from the factory and is not a cheap after market paint job


Untrustworthy. I'm wondering if he knew all along that it was Cyclart paint.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> This contradicts what he says in his EBay ad.
> 
> 
> 
> Untrustworthy. I'm wondering if he knew all along that it was Cyclart paint.


Lol. Yeah when I read that email, I thought of that exact eBay ad description. Like u said, maybe he didn't know. Maybe he was told that by the original owner?!! At this point, who knows who knew what. Packed the Frameset up and sending it back first thing Monday.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> This contradicts what he says in his EBay ad.
> 
> 
> 
> Untrustworthy. I'm wondering if he knew all along that it was Cyclart paint.


Lol. Yeah when I read that email, I thought of that exact eBay ad description. Like u said, maybe he didn't know. Maybe he was told that by the original owner?!! At this point, who knows who knew what. Packed the Frameset up and sending it back first thing Monday.


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

Who is gonna lie and prevaricate on the interwebs? It is written down,, then it must be true. Sorry for coming late to this thread, I was just finishing up my regularSunday 250 km ride.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Well you lucked out. You came up here asking about the missing serial sticker, and it turned out the whole frame is an SL2. It was not a minor oversight on your part. It was total failure to know what an SL3 frame should look like.

But you're not out of the woods yet until you get the refund. Good luck.


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## ssio (Apr 6, 2011)

Specialized team issue frames do have serial numbers in them, they are just typically in different form, WUDxxx instead of WSBCxxx. The serial numbers stickers that are below bottom bracket, are actually under clear coat. So in case the frame's been painted, it wouldn't be easy to transfer those stickers. Team issue frames do not necessarily come with those additional serial numbers stickers below the top tube and downtube (with barcodes in them).

I do know this as I did some research on my own frame which I wasn't so sure about. But based on the serial number, Specialized verified it to be a team issue frame.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

aclinjury said:


> Well you lucked out. You came up here asking about the missing serial sticker, and it turned out the whole frame is an SL2. It was not a minor oversight on your part. It was total failure to know what an SL3 frame should look like.
> 
> But you're not out of the woods yet until you get the refund. Good luck.


Thanks for the rub in 😜

But u r correct on all accounts. I should've been much more careful! Like I said, lesson learned. 

Yeah, sending frame back today. Should receive refund this week sometime. Fingers crossed.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

ssio said:


> Specialized team issue frames do have serial numbers in them, they are just typically in different form, WUDxxx instead of WSBCxxx. The serial numbers stickers that are below bottom bracket, are actually under clear coat. So in case the frame's been painted, it wouldn't be easy to transfer those stickers. Team issue frames do not necessarily come with those additional serial numbers stickers below the top tube and downtube (with barcodes in them).
> 
> I do know this as I did some research on my own frame which I wasn't so sure about. But based on the serial number, Specialized verified it to be a team issue frame.


Good info. Thanks for sharing.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

Well, I can officially close this chapter. I received a full refund for the purchase amount this morning. Ahhhh.....I always thought I was an informed buyer and careful with these type of purchases. I've watched and read about other people's issues with "fake" products and always thought I wouldn't fall for that. Well, I did! Fortunately, I had a happy ending. 

Again, thanks for all the feedbacks. They really did help me solve this situation.


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