# Let the debate begin! What Specialized bike should I buy? I'm in the market!



## Wicked2006 (Jul 9, 2005)

Currently riding a 2011 Cannondale Super 6! Not a bad bike just want something for those 80-110 mile rides. And with more comfort. Shoot your opinions and viewpoints. Budget is near $3800 or less. Less is better. I do get a 20% discount at LBS! Thanks everyone!


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## scottma (May 18, 2012)

Long rides with comfort in mind would be a Roubaix. An Expert SL4 would be the way to go.


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## Typetwelve (Jul 1, 2012)

I rode a 2009 Roubaix last season and decided on the Tarmac when it came time to buy. You give up a bit of comfort (something a new seat post, saddle or tires would help if it becomes too annoying) but the payout in ride is beyond worth it. The bike is like the Roubaix "+1"..it accelerates faster and handles better. I have nothing against the Roubaix...but I'm 100% glad I went with the Tarmac, it's a rocketship to ride...


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## George M (Sep 25, 2008)

I have to agree with Scott.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

Wicked2006 said:


> ... just want something for those 80-110 mile rides. And with more comfort...


What Scott said; Roubaix SL4 Expert.
Tarmacs and Venges are fantastic... but not for 100 mile rides.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Since you already have a race bike and given your criteria, Synapse/ Roubaix/ Domane would be obvious "next bike" choices. BUT as with most things, there _are_ trade-offs, which I think Typetwelve sums up quite well. 

Roubaix's are very nice rides, but Tarmac has that certain edge to its personality that (IMO/E) makes for a more interesting ride.... sans Roubaix's comfort. That gap can be narrowed, but (all else being equal) Roubaix's will always trump Tarmac's in comfort.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

PJ352 said:


> Since you already have a race bike and given your criteria, Synapse/ Roubaix/ Domane would be obvious "next bike" choices. BUT as with most things, there _are_ trade-offs, which I think Typetwelve sums up quite well.
> 
> Roubaix's are very nice rides, but Tarmac has that certain edge to its personality that (IMO/E) makes for a more interesting ride.... sans Roubaix's comfort. That gap can be narrowed, but (all else being equal) Roubaix's will always trump Tarmac's in comfort.


Good point. I was making the assumption that the OP is intending a LOT of long rides.
If it's just the occasional 100-miler, then a Tarmac or Venge may be more appropriate. (or back to the Roubaix if you're old and not-as-flexible, like me!  )


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## Typetwelve (Jul 1, 2012)

I think the notion of the Tarmac not being a century bike is silly. There a plenty of team riders who ride that frame for more miles than I will in my entire life. 

Pretending the Roubaix didn't exist...I don't think anyone looking at a Spec bike would skip the Tarmac because of its ride quality over a century...the Roubaix just adds that "?" to it is all.

Personally, I just don't care much for the ride of the Roubaix after spending time on a Tarmac...but again, that's personal opinion. I think what bike works best for you has less to do with frame geometry and more about you. The Roubaix feels to upright for me, steers slower and is a bit numb at times. That flex in the frame comes with a price of performance. I just took the Roubaix out for a 20 mile ride Monday and while the ride was smoother, I could literally see the forks bending giving to the imperfections on the road (something I never paid attention to before getting a Tarmac). This makes for a good, smooth ride but really hampers performance when you get on it (I'm 170 lbs BTW...so no clydesdale here). The stiffness of the Tarmac is immediate when you not only get on it, but climbing as well...something I have been setting PRs on now since going to the Tarmac over the Roubaix.

Now...there's "good numb" and "bad numb". Good numb makes for more endurance and bad numb makes for a boring ride. I feel both bikes have their strong and weak points. Some of the areas where the Roubaix feels numb is just a bit much for me however.

To the OP...I say ride both and see what talks to you. Do take in mind however that you can "numb" up a Tarmac but can't overcome the geometry of the Roubaix making it sharper. Personally...I'm 36 and gearing up for my first century this summer...I'll be doing it on a Tarmac and I'm sure I'll be fine.

Again...it is all personal opinion but for me...I don't always ride 100 miles...or even 50. Sometimes a hard ass 20 mile sprint, hard crit type city ride or grinding climbing session is in order and the Tarmac takes those categories hands down.


*EDIT*

Then again...I guess I'm looking at it from a "1 bike" perspective. You already have a more race framed bike...I guess a change of pace might suit you...


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## young-nyc (Oct 28, 2011)

Roubaix SL4 expert. New frame. Stiffer and faster than ever. Fast as a Tarmac so I've heard.


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## scottma (May 18, 2012)

Velo Mag says the SL4 Roubaix is the 3rd stiffest bike they have ever tested. 

for the second time in three years, the Specialized Roubaix takes top honors. However, the latest version of the bike that has won four of the last 
five editions of Paris-Roubaix comes at victory from a new angle. In 2011, 
it was vastly superior to all comers in the vibration damping test, in addition 
to its excellent stiffness scores. For 2013, the Roubaix has been firmed up 
and made into a race-day star at the expense of a bit of comfort. Both the 
Domane and the Liscio performed better in the vibration test. 
The new Roubaix’s stiffness figures are astounding. It is the third stiffest 
frame we’ve ever tested, behind the race-bred Cannondale SuperSix EVO 
and the similarly hard-nosed Focus Izalco. It is, without question, a race 
bike. And yet it fell only slightly behind the Domane in the vibration testing, 
proving its versatility. For the rider looking to maximize performance while 
taking the edge off of everything from chip-sealed pavement to dirt roads, 
the Roubaix is the clear choice.


http://www.specialized.com/media/reviews/RBX_VELO.pdf


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

According to Sylvain Chavanel his Roubaix is just as stiff and efficient as his Tarmac, just more comfortable. Love it that he wasn't sure how to answer the question as to why he didn't ride it all year round then.... errr, umm

Gallery: AngryAsian: Race Bikes Are Dumb - BikeRadar

I know some of the Pro's ride Roubaix style bikes in the early season races, Cancellara rides his Domanye all year round afaik. Roubaix's are a great bike, the SL4's are very stiff and very comfortable.
I have an S-Works Roubaix SL4 so stiffness may vary a tad to the lower models, but compared to my previous Cannondale Synapse and Trek OCLV's (USPS Team issue frame) it's the stiffest by far.


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

If you don't like a bike's handling or geometry at mile 25, how are you suddenly going to like it at mile 85? There is no such thing, IMO, as a "bike for longer rides." The geometry and bike personality you like is going to carry through mile after mile. It doesn't change. 

My 2 cents, not worth a penny.............


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## Guod (Jun 9, 2011)

I don't subscribe to the 'relaxed geo=comfort' paradigm that's become more and more prevalent. If the bike fits well and works with you, it'll be comfortable. All the advertising in the world will not create comfort in a bike.

I'd lean more towards the Venge or Tarmac. I prefer to have a decent amount of drop and reach (kinda lanky). One of the guys on my team is on an S Works Roubaix and has the stem slammed with a -17 degree to get the right position. Really tall headtube it seems. Everyone else on the team who has a Tarmac loves it. We have one guy on a Venge and he's pretty impressed with how fast it is on flats and descents, it climbs pretty well too.

If it were me, I'd go for the S Works Nibali frame... I like the blue and white


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## scottma (May 18, 2012)

There is more to it than just geometry. A bike that is comfortable for 25 mi may not be for 80 - 100 mi+. I have a very good friend that rides an SL4 Tarmac. Its a great bike, and he loves it, and is a very fast rider. He runs an LBS and has ridden tons of different bikes. He admits that the Tarmac is not the most comfortable bike for long rides. He recently went to a Trek event (Trek paid for the whole trip!) and rode a Domane while he was there including a century ride. He loved the bike and will probably build a Project One version. Basically, a bike that is comfortable for 25 mi (1/2 hr - 45 min ride time) may wear on you on a 4 - 6 hr+ ride.

Another guy I ride with (he is the president of a large bike club) rode a Madone for years. He found a hairline crack in the top tube and Trek offered him a great deal on a replacement frame. He went with a Domane and also loves it. He is just as fast on it and says he feels a lot less tired on long rides.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Can't get into a more subjective bike related discussion that ride/ handling characteristics, but RkFast is factually correct that a bikes geo is 1) unchangeable and 2) affects both ride and handling. If you doubt this, compare a touring bikes geo to a race bike. The differences are apparent, and (to those knowledgeable of how the numbers translate), the reasons, obvious. This assumes a correct fit on a bike, because f/r weight distribution can play havoc with its handling.

Why this is so subjective is because of the variations in rider preferences and experiences. As one example, I grew up in the days of Italian race bikes with their requisite tight wheelbase, leather saddles and plastic bar tape. By comparison, Tarmacs are the Lexus of the bike world and Roubaix's, 'in excess'. So our perceptions (literally) depend on where we come from, among other factors.

Re: Roubaix's stiffness/ speed/ race winning ability, I think the numerous pro circuit wins answer all those questions. IMO, the Tarmac versus Roubaix discussion (and purchasing decision) is more based on a preference for rider position and bike handling. Matter of fact, Tarmac's are quicker steering and all else being equal, place a rider in a more aero position - which brings us back to an individuals preferences.

_Speed_ (or lack thereof) as always, depends on the motor (us).


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## Typetwelve (Jul 1, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> Can't get into a more subjective bike related discussion that ride/ handling characteristics, but RkFast is factually correct that a bikes geo is 1) unchangeable and 2) affects both ride and handling. If you doubt this, compare a touring bikes geo to a race bike. The differences are apparent, and (to those knowledgeable of how the numbers translate), the reasons, obvious. This assumes a correct fit on a bike, because f/r weight distribution can play havoc with its handling.
> 
> Why this is so subjective is because of the variations in rider preferences and experiences. As one example, I grew up in the days of Italian race bikes with their requisite tight wheelbase, leather saddles and plastic bar tape. By comparison, Tarmacs are the Lexus of the bike world and Roubaix's, 'in excess'. So our perceptions (literally) depend on where we come from, among other factors.
> 
> ...


Well said.

I guess I added to much personal opinion to my responses. Both the Roubaix and Tarmac are quality machines...both are well made and offer a great ride. I guess the best answer is, OP, go out and test ride both kits...see which one you like best then get it. What works and feels best to me may be the wort for you...who knows.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

sounds like there are the HTFU aka Rule #5 guys

the point of the Roubaix and Domane with elastomer dampeners is to absorb the high frequency vibrations from the road that wear riders down

you won't notice a difference at mile 25.... but at mile 75, you may start to notice a difference with less upper body fatigue

since the OP already has a SuperSix, why buy a Tarmac, Madone, etc?

maybe a saddle change and help....maybe double up on the bar tape can help....


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## scottma (May 18, 2012)

If the bike is wearing you out on a long ride, yes there are changes that can me made. 25C tires with lower pressure, different saddle/position, different bar position. Yes, maybe even a change in bar tape can all help.


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## krtassoc (Sep 23, 2005)

Specialized S-Works Roubaix SL4 Review - BikeRadar


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## Wicked2006 (Jul 9, 2005)

scottma said:


> If the bike is wearing you out on a long ride, yes there are changes that can me made. 25C tires with lower pressure, different saddle/position, different bar position. Yes, maybe even a change in bar tape can all help.


No need to change my Super Six it's a great race bike. And my SS does it's job well! The SL4 Roubaix will be for my Gran Fondo's! And for comfort! And for my long days in the saddle.


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## Tire Biter (Jul 24, 2012)

Wicked2006 said:


> No need to change my Super Six it's a great race bike. And my SS does it's job well! The SL4 Roubaix will be for my Gran Fondo's! And for comfort! And for my long days in the saddle.


I suspect you will not regret that decision. Which Roubaix did you decide on?


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## Wicked2006 (Jul 9, 2005)

Tire Biter said:


> I suspect you will not regret that decision. Which Roubaix did you decide on?


I'm actually looking at this model Roubaix SL4 Expert C2. It's more then enough bike for me.


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## Tire Biter (Jul 24, 2012)

I am loving the CLX40's on mine. Consider a trade-up. Congrats on your soon to be new ride.


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## scottma (May 18, 2012)

I had CLX 40s and did not like them. Im on Dura Ace C24s now and am much happier with them.


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

scottma said:


> I had CLX 40s and did not like them. Im on Dura Ace C24s now and am much happier with them.


What didnt you like about them? Curious.

When I bought my S-Works i couldnt decide between the CLX40's or Zipp 202 FC's. The original plan was to test ride both sets and then choose, I started with the Zipps and never took them off. They are rediculously good. Love them. I also have DA C24's and C50's on my other bike which are both exceptionally good wheelsets, but prefer the Zipps over both.


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## scottma (May 18, 2012)

This will be long......

The CLX40s were an odd experience for me. These were my first set of carbon wheels and I was pretty excited. I bought a Roubaix Expert SL4 and the LBS gave me a great deal on the wheels as new takeoffs from an S-Works Tarmac. I had a new set of Conti GP4000s that went on for tires. A good set up. I also had the factory Roval Brake Pads. They looked great on the bike. I didn't think too much one way or another initially. Was riding a new bike and getting used to everything. The old bike was a Roubaix SL2 so not a drastic change. 

First thing I noticed is I now had "carbon braking" Vs what I was used to. It wasn't horrible, but not as good as I was used to on an Alu rim. The noise every time I hit the brakes was kind of annoying too. Next thing was, I didn't seem to feel any faster (more on this in a minute). I didn't think too much about this at first. One day on a group ride we were doing some big hills with some really fast descents on a windy day. I was bombing down a long fast and thankfully straight hill with a stiff crosswind from my left. I was getting blown around and it got to be pretty hard to hold a straight line. Never had an issue like this before. I had noticed being blown around on other windy days but it was not a big deal since I wasn't doing big descents.

On the performance. I haven't mentioned yet why I got a new bike. I had a bad crash on my SL2 at the end of October which cracked the frame, my helmet and broke some bones. I was out for a couple months. Coming back I was a bit out of shape and knew that but was working hard. My performance always was bad. Bad times on hills. Always seemed sluggish, Strava segments were very slow compared to what I was doing previous. Next thing was the club rides. I was doing miserably. Could not hang and was constantly getting dropped off the back. Very frustrated and discouraged with my whole riding at this point.

At this point I figured the wheels were not making me any faster that I could tell, not as good braking and the nervous descents on windy days sealed that I didn't want these wheels. I decided to try a set of DA C24s. People who had them seemed to really like them. The day that they went on was a revelation. First thing was squeezing the brake levers and no noise. Nice and quiet and much better braking, I had "normal" brakes again. YAY! Next was I could "feel" an immediate difference in the bike. Hard to explain but the bike just felt different like I was not riding in quicksand. It felt just better. That same day there was a club ride. It was amazing. Kept up with the group. Did not get dropped, and pulled out front a couple times!! People were commenting on how well I was riding. Next few rides were alone alone and along my normal routes. My times on hills and segments were back t what was normal for me.

I have no explanation for this. I was frankly shocked at how much better the C24s were. I'm just posting on what my experience was. To make this even longer I will share what two guys I ride with shared with me. I ride with a guy who rides a Cervello R5ca. Very $$$ bike. He has a set of Zipp 202s, 303s. He had 404s on his previous bike. We had a discussion about wheels and I asked him which he liked best. He admitted that he was no faster on his old bike (Madone) with the 404s and thought he was faster on the stock rims. He also said he had some scary moments with them on windy days. On the new bike, every time I ride with him he is running the 202s.

The other guy just got a P1 Domane with the RXL clinchers. He also has a set of 404s. We were talking about his new bike and I was asking about it and the wheels came up. He said he loves them. "The 404s will be hanging in the garage".

So I guess to sum up my exp: I dont think deep carbon clinchers are all that. They didn't do a thing for me that was positive (look cool?) I find the C24s better in every way. I found some similar exp with similar wheels from other riders. Maybe they work well for other people which is fine. They were just not for me.


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## kt22mike (Oct 22, 2007)

Seems to me one important item should be what size cassette will you need for your long rides. If you intend to do a lot of steep hills/ mountain passes then you might need a cassette with 32T. 

If this is the case there are only a couple of alternatives in the Shimano line that let you do this (the new Ultegra and the Shimano 105 model 5701. Dura Ace is out of the question. This is not a big deal with Sram as all of their newer lines (Force, etc) support larger cassettes. But try finding a decent price bike with Sram Force components. 

As for me I have a Specialized S-works and it came with Dura Ace 7800 components. I am about to do a cross country trip so I had a 32T Sram cassette (12-32) and the Shimano 5701 RD installed (only one that would work with my Dura Ace 7800 shifters). There is some shifting difference - but not enough for me to give up the 32T).

Net... don't overlook your component choice when choosing the bike.


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## scottma (May 18, 2012)

You can possibly get away with a 12-30. Even though my 6770 RD only "officially" fits a 28T, a 12-30 works no problem. People have similar exp with 6700, 5700 RD.


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## Tire Biter (Jul 24, 2012)

scottma said:


> I had CLX 40s and did not like them. Im on Dura Ace C24s now and am much happier with them.


Another great set you went with, my point was consider a trade up at the time of purchase if budget allows. I like the CLX, you like the C24, both an improvement to the stock ride. OP may prefer something far different.


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

Unless you are riding on bad roads all the time, I think fit and saddle are more important than how much the frame soaks up. I ride a Tarmac SL3 and while I do feel bumps I stand up when riding over them. Any bike is going to feel punishing if you keep all the weight on your saddle all the time. It is still a pretty smooth compared to some other bikes, and i would have no problem doing 100 miles on it. I test rode a Roubaix SL4 and felt way too much like a boat to me.


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## krtassoc (Sep 23, 2005)

The endurance geometry seems to work well for Andy Schleck and Fabian Cancellara:

(The Roubaix seems to me like it has the geometry of the "stage race" bikes of the Lemond/Hinault/Fignon era...a setup that I much prefer...to the "twitchy" bikes that have dominated the road race scene for the last 15 or so years.) 


Pro Bike: Andy Schleck?s Trek Domane

"... He’s racing aboard Trek’s more forgiving Domane frame instead of the racy Madone because he favors the ride quality and more relaxed geometry.

“The ride quality gives him more confidence,” said Jordan Roessingh, Trek’s road team liaison. The Domane features IsoSpeed technology with a decoupler that increases vertical compliance for a smoother ride by isolating the seat tube from the rest of the frame.

The Domane has an increased head tube length of 3.5cm and a slightly shorter top tube on a 56cm frame. It also has a longer wheelbase, lower bottom bracket, and longer chainstays, which all contribute to its confidence-inspiring ride. The 71.9-degree head tube angle on the Domane is the same as Trek’s Cronus cyclocross bike..."


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## blitzinger (May 6, 2013)

I'm actually waiting on delivery of a Specialized Roubaix Epic Apex Compact. First roadbike and I'm PUMPED. Can barely contain the excitement. Going to bike to work every Friday.


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## Wicked2006 (Jul 9, 2005)

Man oh man! Can things change in an instant. Get this my Giant dealer I'm good friends with wants to hook me up with 2013 Giants Defy Advanced 0 all for like between $3500-3800! This bike comes Shimano Ultegra Di2. The wheels I'm not so sure about. What's you're guy's take on my new situation? I'm in limbo about the whole thing. Picking out a new ride is a pain in the a*&!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Wicked2006 said:


> Man oh man! Can things change in an instant. Get this my Giant dealer I'm good friends with wants to hook me up with 2013 Giants Defy Composite 0 all for like $3400! This bike comes Shimano Ultegra Di2. The wheels I'm not so sure about. What's you're guy's take on my new situation? I'm in limbo about the whole thing. Picking out a new ride is a pain in the a*&!


It's really not all that different than what some here have been saying... you have a race bike, so for a second bike consider a relaxed geo bike, which both the Roubaix and Defy are. 

This being the Specialized forum, I suspect most will prefer the Roubaix, but (objectively speaking) I'd suggest riding both back to back with equalized tire pressures - out on the road and for some duration.

Personally, I'd focus more on the frameset, fit, ride and handling than I would on components. They all wear and can be replaced over time. But the frameset is usually a keeper - at least longer than components..


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## Wicked2006 (Jul 9, 2005)

PJ352 said:


> It's really not all that different than what some here have been saying... you have a race bike, so for a second bike consider a relaxed geo bike, which both the Roubaix and Defy are.
> 
> This being the Specialized forum, I suspect most will prefer the Roubaix, but (objectively speaking) I'd suggest riding both back to back with equalized tire pressures - out on the road and for some duration.
> 
> Personally, I'd focus more on the frameset, fit, ride and handling than I would on components. They all wear and can be replaced over time. But the frameset is usually a keeper - at least longer than components..


I've ridden both and have been riding for many years. It's just a very hard choice of which one to make my 2nd bike! Both are very high quality bikes. Now I really need to ride both for a duration and see which fits my needs along with my comfort zone. That could take some time for sure. In the end one of these bikes will be my 2nd bike!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Wicked2006 said:


> I've ridden both and have been riding for many years. It's just a very hard choice of which one to make my 2nd bike! Both are very high quality bikes. Now I really need to ride both for a duration and see which fits my needs along with my comfort zone. That could take some time for sure. In the end one of these bikes will be my 2nd bike!


Good luck (and don't forget to have fun!) making your decision. As you say, both are quality bikes, so IMO you won't go wrong with either choice.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

scottma said:


> This will be long......
> 
> The CLX40s were an odd experience for me. These were my first set of carbon wheels and I was pretty excited. I bought a Roubaix Expert SL4 and the LBS gave me a great deal on the wheels as new takeoffs from an S-Works Tarmac...
> So I guess to sum up my exp: I dont think deep carbon clinchers are all that. They didn't do a thing for me that was positive (look cool?) I find the C24s better in every way. I found some similar exp with similar wheels from other riders. Maybe they work well for other people which is fine. They were just not for me.


Very interesting. I was drooling over the disc version of the Roubaix SL4 w/ the CLX40 wheels. 
Interesting to hear your experience w/ crosswinds. I've got a set of DA C35 (the non-tubeless ones) and like them a LOT. I like the look of the deep carbon rims (and admit I'm super-intrigued by the possibilities of carbon rims w/ disc brakes!) but have long wondered just how difficult they were to control.
That said, the Zipp 303's still look to be a good compromise...


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## scottma (May 18, 2012)

RRRoubaix said:


> I like the look of the deep carbon rims


I think that is why most people run them. My bike looked badass with them, but that was it. It performs better in every way with shallow rims. I'll take performance over looks every time.


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