# Lance regarding the Schleck's



## golferpimp1 (Apr 16, 2008)

Did anyone else hear him say today during the pre-race interview when asked how much time he needed on them going into ventoux 
"If I get ahead of them, Ill be find on Ventoux" makes me feel like hes been holdilng a little something back, I dont think hell win the race, but sounds like hes pretty confident and may know something we dont, especially for a guy who lost 2 minutes to them yesterday . . . . any thoughts??


----------



## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

I like turtles.


----------



## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

After yesterday, he doesn't give a damn about where Contador is. He'll not play the teammate anymore.


----------



## dcfan40 (Aug 3, 2008)

Lance did hold back yesterday...To me it was pretty obvious. I think he may have held back a bit more than he should have because he lost a more time than I think he wanted. I know he was trying to get time from Wiggins...so maybe it was smart all along. I believe he will do great today and on Saturday...


----------



## olr1 (Apr 2, 2005)

_After yesterday, he doesn't give a damn about where Contador is. He'll not play the teammate anymore._

Mmmmmmmmmmm, because he's been so supportive so far....


----------



## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

jd3 said:


> After yesterday, he doesn't give a damn about where Contador is. He'll not play the teammate anymore.


And we're off!


----------



## jecjec81 (Jan 28, 2008)

I have a feeling Lance will be a beast on Ventoux.


----------



## Buzzard (Sep 7, 2004)

> And we're off!


LOL


----------



## jpelaston (Jun 8, 2008)

olr1 said:


> _After yesterday, he doesn't give a damn about where Contador is. He'll not play the teammate anymore._
> 
> Mmmmmmmmmmm, because he's been so supportive so far....


considering had he not been a good and supportive teammate, he would be nipping at contadors heels i'd say yes he has been supportive.


----------



## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

jecjec81 said:


> I have a feeling Lance will be a beast on Ventoux.


I have a feeling Lance will grow wings and beat the field by 30 minutes.

Just a feeling.


----------



## olr1 (Apr 2, 2005)

_considering had he not been a good and supportive teammate, he would be nipping at contadors heels i'd say yes he has been supportive._

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, you really think so?


----------



## Snakebit (Mar 18, 2002)

olr1 said:


> _considering had he not been a good and supportive teammate, he would be nipping at contadors heels i'd say yes he has been supportive._
> 
> Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, you really think so?


I do.


----------



## jpelaston (Jun 8, 2008)

olr1 said:


> _considering had he not been a good and supportive teammate, he would be nipping at contadors heels i'd say yes he has been supportive._
> 
> Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, you really think so?


He has not shown any reason why he wouldn't be..


----------



## olr1 (Apr 2, 2005)

Ok, if you say so....

( You may gather that I find the idea of Armstrong as a 'supportive' domestique style rider a bit like like a porcupine sandwich; a little bit hard to swallow..)


----------



## svrider (Jan 14, 2009)

golferpimp1 said:


> especially for a guy who lost 2 minutes to them yesterday . . . . any thoughts??


I don't think he "lost" that time yesterday. Looked like he missed Franks jump and didn't follow as to not pull Wiggins up. He showed the day before he was able to bridge up to those guys if he needed to. He also started bridging up yesterday after he was clear of any rivals. Don't assume he "lost" that time. 

I think he'll have the legs on Ventoux.


----------



## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

svrider said:


> I don't think he "lost" that time yesterday. Looked like he missed Franks jump and didn't follow as to not pull Wiggins up. He showed the day before he was able to bridge up to those guys if he needed to. He also started bridging up yesterday after he was clear of any rivals. Don't assume he "lost" that time.
> 
> I think he'll have the legs on Ventoux.


What's your excuse for him getting dropped on Verbier?


----------



## Snakebit (Mar 18, 2002)

SilasCL said:


> What's your excuse for him getting dropped on Verbier?


He had a bad day?


----------



## svrider (Jan 14, 2009)

SilasCL said:


> What's your excuse for him getting dropped on Verbier?


Same reason as everyone else's. Contador is a bad mofo. 

Actually, the sharp surge and relative proximity of the finish did catch him out. 

Say what you will. He bridged back on stage 16. And still had legs left to start bridging yesterday. He wasn't toast. He's been one of the last guys at the front with Contador and the Schlecks. A little slow to react at times but is still putting in good rides. 

He's going to be fine on Ventoux. Not going to catch Contador obviously. But if he has time on the Schlecks after the TT I think he can stay with them, or limit his losses enough, to still finish 2nd.


----------



## KenB (Jul 28, 2004)

SilasCL said:


> I have a feeling Lance will grow wings and beat the field by 30 minutes.
> 
> Just a feeling.



Only 30 minutes? Why do you hate Lance?


----------



## svrider (Jan 14, 2009)

KenB said:


> Only 30 minutes? Why do you hate Lance?


Hahaha.....that's awesome! :thumbsup:


----------



## nims (Jul 7, 2009)

Has lance ever attacked contatdor on the road? I haven't seen a time were he actually attacked. Yesterday he could have been selfish and ran back to the leaders he didn't. 

As far as the schlecks. WTF Andy shouldn't have only lost 15 seconds to lance. The old man is... well, getting old.


----------



## Frank Tuesday (Jun 1, 2002)

The simple fact remains that the only time any contender put time into Contador was when Lance got in the split on stage 3. Other than that, no contender has finished ahead of Contador. He beat them (contenders) all in the two time trials, the two mountain top finishes and only the Schlecks stayed with him yesterday. Domination.


----------



## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Lance loses 2 to 3 minutes to Andy/Frank & contador on ventoux...he has consistintly demonstrated he can't go with them on easier climbs......he's done nothing to show he can go on a harder one.

What would you expect him to do...concede? Of course he said what he said.

Len


----------



## PhatTalc (Jul 21, 2004)

jpelaston said:


> considering had he not been a good and supportive teammate, he would be nipping at contadors heels i'd say yes he has been supportive.


If they had cloned an extra Astana team so that Armstrong/Contador could have had their own Astana team each, Armstrong would be in the same place at this stage as he is now. He has lost time on both time trials, on both summits and on the spikiest stage.


----------



## svrider (Jan 14, 2009)

Len J said:


> ...he has consistintly demonstrated he can't go with them on easier climbs......he's done nothing to show he can go on a harder one.


That assumes he chased and couldn't go. Which I'm not sure was always the case. He had to do some sitting back. He was able to bridge the gap on stage 16. Still had gas in the tank yesterday...catching Kloden. 

So theres 2 things we haven't seen. Lance chase in earnest.....and totally crack. So I think it's possible, without having to hold back, that he can go with the Schlecks. I mean seriously....he's not riding so bad that thats impossible.


----------



## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

This is ridiculous. Lance has shown himself to be exactly what he is right now - the third-best rider in the Tour and getting dominated by Contador. Add to that the fact that Lance was pissing on Contador's shoes until the first real mountain stage, at which point he realized he wasn't in his class.

To his credit, though, he has played the teammate role since he realized he couldn't win. To his detriment, he and Bruyneel have fed the "Contador is a bad guy because even though he put our team in yellow, which was the goal, he attacked rather than dragging the rest of us onto the podium" beast at every opportunity. 

Then he rode his yellow bike today to feed his own massive ego.


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Some people have no clue about tactics and defending and blocking at all. 

This should be a fun thread before it gets locked.


----------



## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

Snakebit said:


> He had a bad day?


Just one?


----------



## PhatTalc (Jul 21, 2004)

uzziefly said:


> Some people have no clue about tactics and defending and blocking at all.
> 
> This should be a fun thread before it gets locked.


But some of us do understand it (like me)... I simply don't believe Armstrong has been doing that - he was at his limit on the climbs of Arcalis and Verbier. He looked great dropping Wiggins yesterday, but not as great as Contador. I have always liked Armstrong, but many of his fans are naive- lots of threads here have been about "is he bluffing?".


----------



## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

nims said:


> Yesterday he could have been selfish and ran back to the leaders he didn't.
> 
> As far as the schlecks. WTF Andy shouldn't have only lost 15 seconds to lance. The old man is... well, getting old.


How can those two thoughts exist in the same brain without having a death match?


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

svrider said:


> Same reason as everyone else's. Contador is a bad mofo.
> 
> Actually, the sharp surge and relative proximity of the finish did catch him out.
> 
> ...



Mm hmm.. Contador is a loser, an ass etc. Why exactly again?

Oh right, coz he's in yellow and is the best stage racer in the world, which entails him to riding however he pleases.

Oh and, also, because Armstrong and Andréas are not pissed at him because it was clearly a misunderstanding due to language barriers etc etc. But of course, you choose to blatantly ignore this. 

I suppose he'll only be a good teammate if he gives up his yellow for everyone else to come back and then lose the TdF right?


----------



## svrider (Jan 14, 2009)

PhatTalc said:


> But some of us do understand it (like me)... I simply don't believe Armstrong has been doing that -


In my mind that is the big question. How much was tactical...and how much was simply couldn't do it? I think it was a bit of both honestly. Can't wait for Ventoux.

But I think the TT results may have sealed his fate today.....


----------



## dfltroll (Nov 27, 2006)

Creakyknees said:


> I like turtles.


I think that about says it all.


----------



## PhatTalc (Jul 21, 2004)

svrider said:


> ... Can't wait for Ventoux...


Me too! It's gonna be great. Ventoux is like the last two climbs from stage 17 added together... with the Mistral wind added!


----------



## svrider (Jan 14, 2009)

PhatTalc said:


> Me too! It's gonna be great. Ventoux is like the last two climbs from stage 17 added together... with the Mistral wind added!


Couple that with the close time gaps between Armstrong/Wiggins/Kloden/Schleck and it's going to be killer!


----------



## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

*My Take*

My take is that Lance will try and take a flyer on Saturday to work at a podium finish, but I have a feeling with the past history with Conti, Lance and Astana, plus the announcement of Lances new team that Conti will not allow Lance to go - bad team tactics or not, I think he's at the point that he just doesn't care now. All just speculation on my end of course, but it's the play I'm calling.


----------



## barry1021 (Nov 27, 2005)

jpelaston said:


> considering had he not been a good and supportive teammate, he would be nipping at contadors heels i'd say yes he has been supportive.


I must be watching a different race than you. I am watching the one where he didnt take pulls in the Pyrenees, the so called defensive blocking moves he made were a result of being dropped, and his great bridging back was either to Contador's group or his chase group. If you are liostening to the BS that Versus is spouting, well then.....


----------



## olr1 (Apr 2, 2005)

_My take is that Lance will try and take a flyer on Saturday to work at a podium finish, but I have a feeling with the past history with Conti, Lance and Astana, plus the announcement of Lances new team that Conti will not allow Lance to go - bad team tactics or not, I think he's at the point that he just doesn't care now. All just speculation on my end of course, but it's the play I'm calling._

I think that would make LA look like an amateur. He'll sit the wheels, and when the decisive attacks go he'll adopt the role of faithful teammate, and sit on for as long as possible. He can't match the Shlecks, he can't match Kloden, he might have it over Wiggins...


----------



## dcp_nz (Jun 20, 2005)

KMan said:


> My take is that Lance will try and take a flyer on Saturday to work at a podium finish, but I have a feeling with the past history with Conti, Lance and Astana, plus the announcement of Lances new team that Conti will not allow Lance to go - bad team tactics or not, I think he's at the point that he just doesn't care now. All just speculation on my end of course, but it's the play I'm calling.



Lance might try but I don't think he can but....
If he does then the Schlecks will be on his wheel and if the Schlecks go then Contador has to go too. 

My prediction: 
Saxobank and the Schlecks will bust it open at the bottom of Ventoux and drop everyone except Contador who will wait for a bit and then drop both of them for the stage win.

I mean seriously if the guy is so damn determined and good that he can beat Cancellara on that TT course just to prove a point and for the pride of the yellow then he sure as hell wants to win the beastly tough stage up Ventoux as well. And if he wants it no one can beat him.

1st and 2nd on the stage and in Paris are spoken for. The question in my mind is can Frank get 35 seconds on Lance to get 3rd overall - based on yesterday I'd say its a definitely possible but the old man may surprise now there's a podium spot on the line.


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Alberto reiterated today that he wants Lance on the podium. And that they are actually on really good terms and such in the EuroSport interview.

Of course, now the speculation about that statement will begin in 3..2..1


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

PhatTalc said:


> But some of us do understand it (like me)... I simply don't believe Armstrong has been doing that - he was at his limit on the climbs of Arcalis and Verbier. He looked great dropping Wiggins yesterday, but not as great as Contador. I have always liked Armstrong, but many of his fans are naive- lots of threads here have been about "is he bluffing?".


He would have been dumb to bluff on the Verbier (or is it Verbrier?) anyway. Unless he knew he was in stellar form or could ride like Contador, a bluff there is Tour suicide. 

But, he DID mark Wiggins and could have lost less time yesterday if he could have gone earlier without risking Wiggins coming back. Of course, he was also suffering.


----------



## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

I don't think Lance has been bluffing. Actually, I think he has been completely honest this whole time.

He lost time on Verbier because he got dropped and didn't have the legs.

Yesterday, he could have done better. I clearly remember him attacking Wiggins to bridge up to the Schleck/Contador group, but ended his attack when he saw that Wiggins was coming with him. I'm not saying that he would necessarily be in a higher place on the GC right now, but he could be closer. He lost time yesterday because he was marking Wiggins, and that would be completely obvious to anyone watching the race without preconceived notions about Lance.


----------



## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

dcp_nz said:


> Lance might try but I don't think he can but....
> If he does then the Schlecks will be on his wheel and if the Schlecks go then Contador has to go too.
> 
> My prediction:
> ...


That's what I'm thinking.
I think Saxobank will set the brutal tempo at the bottom of Mt.Ventoux climb to shed any dead weights.
My guess is Contado and Schleck brothers will be there along with whoever have the legs after the hard temp.....LA, Kloden, Nibali and Wiggins are the good candidates.


----------



## barry1021 (Nov 27, 2005)

thechriswebb said:


> I don't think Lance has been bluffing. Actually, I think he has been completely honest this whole time.
> 
> He lost time on Verbier because he got dropped and didn't have the legs.
> 
> Yesterday, he could have done better. I clearly remember him attacking Wiggins to bridge up to the Schleck/Contador group, but ended his attack when he saw that Wiggins was coming with him. I'm not saying that he would necessarily be in a higher place on the GC right now, but he could be closer. He lost time yesterday because he was marking Wiggins, and that would be completely obvious to anyone watching the race without preconceived notions about Lance.


Well he was marking him AFTER he was dropped with him, that part is obvious. Had he pulled Wiggins back earlier (assuming he COULD have) it would have shown who he really cares about. But that doesn't mean that he CHOSE to be in that position. He was dropped and he was stuck, and that's obvious to anyone who isn't a Lance apologist, isn't it??


----------



## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

barry1021 said:


> Well he was marking him AFTER he was dropped with him, that part is obvious. Had he pulled Wiggins back earlier (assuming he COULD have) it would have shown who he really cares about. But that doesn't mean that he CHOSE to be in that position. He was dropped and he was stuck, and that's obvious to anyone who isn't a Lance apologist, isn't it??


Oh, I believe he was legitimately dropped. I just think he could have made up more time than he did.


----------



## cogswell23 (Aug 15, 2007)

Len J said:


> Lance loses 2 to 3 minutes to Andy/Frank & contador on ventoux...he has consistintly demonstrated he can't go with them on easier climbs......he's done nothing to show he can go on a harder one.
> 
> What would you expect him to do...concede? Of course he said what he said.
> 
> Len


Spot on.

There's a lot of wishful thinking going on up in here.


----------



## cogswell23 (Aug 15, 2007)

Len J said:


> Lance loses 2 to 3 minutes to Andy/Frank & contador on ventoux...he has consistintly demonstrated he can't go with them on easier climbs......he's done nothing to show he can go on a harder one.
> 
> What would you expect him to do...concede? Of course he said what he said.
> 
> Len


Spot on.

There's a lot of wishful thinking going on up in here.


----------



## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

I like Lance but no way he's bluffing. Im sure he would have killed it in the ITT today if he was holding back. Coming in 16th after being accustomed to dominating this event could not possibly be his plan. I think he has done an incredible job against 99% of the field in this TDF over all but I agree that he probably doesnt have it to take it to the Schlecks or AC on Ventoux of all places. 

Remove the emotion and I just cant see him being a problem for AC or the Schlecks on Ventoux. I think he can be slick and try to break away tommorow to make up time but that will cost him on Ventoux. Outside of that I really dont see him coming in anywhere higher than 3rd. I would love to be wrong however.


----------



## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

lance is sending the schlecks a message


----------



## curtw (Mar 27, 2004)

......


----------



## WeakMite (Feb 20, 2005)

I hope LA pulls off something special... but rationality begs me to forecast GC following tomorrow's stage: Conti 1st, Andy 2nd, Frank 3rd, LA 4th, Wiggo 5th.


----------



## pchrosto (Feb 12, 2008)

thechriswebb said:


> I don't think Lance has been bluffing. Actually, I think he has been completely honest this whole time.
> 
> He lost time on Verbier because he got dropped and didn't have the legs.
> 
> Yesterday, he could have done better. I clearly remember him attacking Wiggins to bridge up to the Schleck/Contador group, but ended his attack when he saw that Wiggins was coming with him. I'm not saying that he would necessarily be in a higher place on the GC right now, but he could be closer. He lost time yesterday because he was marking Wiggins, and that would be completely obvious to anyone watching the race without preconceived notions about Lance.


true he held back, but there's no way to tell if he could have ridden faster without vdv pulling him and wiggins up most of the climb. he made a 2k effort but it's a lot tougher to be in the wind the whole way.

even though he didn't to anything to help wiggins yesterday he and kloden weren't the best teammates on verbier, dragging sastre, evans, wiggins, nibali, frank up most of the climb, only to lose time to all of them. normal team tactics would dictate sitting on the back with a team leader up the road.

don't think he has it to win on ventoux, that sounds more like fanboy fantasy. i'm sure bobke will be picking him for the win.


----------



## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

Snakebit said:


> He had a bad day?


Don't be naive. Having a bad day was obviously just another part of devious plot to....well....deviously plot to do his evil ploy.


----------



## turbogrover (Jan 1, 2006)

Jesse D Smith said:


> Don't be naive. Having a bad day was obviously just another part of devious plot to....well....deviously plot to do his evil ploy.


Cancer Awareness?


----------



## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Jesse D Smith said:


> Don't be naive. Having a bad day was obviously just another part of devious plot to....well....deviously plot to do his evil ploy.


Exactly! Lance's master plan has come to fruition, and he has AC right where he wants him... clad in yellow and totally whupping his ass. 

Oh. Waitaminnut... :idea: 
.


----------



## Jwiffle (Mar 18, 2005)

Oh, man, this thread (and all the others like it) are too funny. The Lance haters, the Lance lovers.

The Lance haters just can't get around the fact that Lance is still in 3rd place after 18 stages....they want to say he is doing poorly. HELLOOOO! 3rd place still. That's NOT called doing poorly! He obviously does still have the legs! If he didn't have it, he'd be back with Evans, etc.

If Contador were not in this race, Lance would be in yellow, at least currently. May get dropped by others on Ventoux, but may very well not. We'll have to wait and see!


----------



## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

In LA's own words; third place would be second loser, wouldn't it?


----------



## ibfeet (Jul 13, 2006)

jecjec81 said:


> I have a feeling Lance will be a beast on Ventoux.


Only is a turtle is a beast......


----------



## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

Anybody else think that Sastre has been holding back? He and both LA have said that Mt. Ventoux was a goal.


----------



## svend (Jul 18, 2003)

SilasCL said:


> I have a feeling Lance will grow wings and beat the field by 30 minutes.
> 
> Just a feeling.



the only thing that is going to grow wings are the monkeys as they fly out of his ass on the slopes of Ventoux...


----------



## svrider (Jan 14, 2009)

svrider said:


> I don't think he "lost" that time yesterday. Looked like he missed Franks jump and didn't follow as to not pull Wiggins up. He showed the day before he was able to bridge up to those guys if he needed to. He also started bridging up yesterday after he was clear of any rivals. Don't assume he "lost" that time.
> 
> I think he'll have the legs on Ventoux.



I called it right here but it was written off as fanboy talk. 

Lance had the legs.....


----------

