# Anyone go Car-Less?



## BentChainring (Jun 23, 2005)

I keep rolling around the idea of selling the Mini and going car-less, mainly for the $$$ savings, but also for the fitness and "green"ness of it.

I live in Los Angeles, if that helps/hurts 

Thoughts?

nK


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

nobody walks in LA


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## BentChainring (Jun 23, 2005)

FatTireFred said:


> nobody walks in LA


Hence the bike.


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## blakcloud (Apr 13, 2006)

I live in a large city and have been car-less my whole life. But what this city has is a pretty good infrastructure for public transport when needed and a pretty decent cycling infrastructure that is getting better and better all the time. I also chose my dwelling based on its proximity to things like a grocery store where the bike isn't the best but it can be done. I don't miss a car but then again it is hard to miss something you have never had. The bike works for me all year round. 

My SO asked me to get a license so we can use Zip Car when needed which I think is a good compromise. Rent a car when you need to. If you find yourself not using your Mini that often then this might be a could solution for you. 

Now L.A. is not Toronto but I have only a jaded view of the cycling there as I have never been. Good luck on your choice.


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## JoeDaddio (Sep 3, 2005)

I'm carless in OC. I'd imagine it's about 100x easier to be carless in LA.

Do it. Give your Mini to me 


joe


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## Art853 (May 30, 2003)

I've completed four years now of being car ownership free. It's been good. I sometimes carpool with people for out of town bike events and camping trips. Joining sports or outing clubs helps with organizing rides to events and you meet new people. Renting or car share clubs are options for when you want to use a car.


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## StageHand (Dec 27, 2002)

Almost. I figure I could go carless if I have to, but my fiance has a car that I use frequently for shopping and mountain biking (and almost anything involving her). The transition can be a little awkward sometimes, but after a while, it's just a way of life and getting on the bike to do everything becomes second nature.

Start with simple challenges: see if you can go a week without the car. It'll reveal what you still need to do or have in order to be prepared to not have a car.

The biggest thing to remember, though, is that while you ditch the car to save money, you ride the bike because it's fun.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

I would definitely not sell the car. I'd donate it. I'll pay shipping & I'll pm you with my addy.


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## Kolossal (Feb 12, 2007)

Been car-less for more than 4 years. Best decision ever. For any car needs, you can always join a car pooling system or just rent when you really need it.


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## Tweezak (Dec 6, 2008)

I dunno...doesn't it get damned hot in Hell-A? I'd probably keep the cage around for when it is too hot to ride. That said, I don't think a Mini would be my first choice. I'd prefer something a little more utilitarian...something you can put 4 people in comfortably and that has some room in the back. My wife and I have a Prius and that works really nicely for us.

That said, if I was shopping for a sporty car, the Mini would be near the top of my list. Or a Lotus Elise. *drool*


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## BentChainring (Jun 23, 2005)

Tweezak said:


> I dunno...doesn't it get damned hot in Hell-A? I'd probably keep the cage around for when it is too hot to ride. That said, I don't think a Mini would be my first choice. I'd prefer something a little more utilitarian...something you can put 4 people in comfortably and that has some room in the back. My wife and I have a Prius and that works really nicely for us.
> 
> That said, if I was shopping for a sporty car, the Mini would be near the top of my list. Or a Lotus Elise. *drool*


I really almost have never have the need to cart more than one or two people around. Im a single guy, with no roomates. So it kinda works out well for me. And I did tell myself that it would be nice to own a sports car once in my life. Might as well be while I am young.

I am just weighing the options of keeping vs ditching it for now...

Thanks for all the insight!


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

I wish I could go carless. The idea is tempting because that's how you can REALLY save money by bike commuting -- no insurance, go gas to buy, no repair and maintenance bills. However, where I live the public transportation is limited -- it would take me 1.5 hours to ride the bus to work compared to 20 minutes driving and 40 minutes biking -- and I would need other options on days when the weather is foul. Although we are generally blessed with mild weather in NC, we occasionally get snow storms, hurricanes, 100+ heat, and extended bouts of rain.


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## BianchiJoe (Jul 22, 2005)

I've only been car-free for a few months, and my wife has a Honda CR-V, but I can tell you that it's not anywhere near as inconvenient as you might think. I've only driven the wife's car once this whole time, and that was to run an errand for her. Give yourself permission to borrow or rent a car once in awhile, and/or do the car-share thing if such a system is available. Taking a taxi every now and then is still way cheaper than owning a car. I'm in the market for a BOB trailer now, so I can haul more stuff when I need to.


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## Hollywood (Jan 16, 2003)

BentChainring said:


> mainly for the $$$ savings, but also for the fitness and "green"ness of it.


some thoughts

L.A. can be do-able, or not, depending where you live/work. Living where you do its pretty inconvenient not to have wheels. I donated one of my 2 cars to a non-profit, so I'm getting closer 

I'd say the answer is to sell the Mini (assuming you're not upside-down on it) and get a cheap gas sipper for those days its: hot, raining or you generally feel like sh*t. I was thankful to have a car after my wreck and couldn't handle the bumps on a bike. I'm all about commuting, grocery shopping, visiting friends all via bike, but I'd be lying if I said there weren't days when its good to have. Visiting my mom 25 miles to the north over a big mountain range and limited train/bus service eliminates quick trips there, if not by car.

Thats my plan for the car I still own. Get rid of it for more of a back-up car. Not the expensive to maintain & insure variety.

And I'm bummed that FlexCar really hasn't taken off here. The closest hub is downtown L.A., which is completely inconvenient for us as well.

Also, ask Joe how well carless works out in the dating world 

It *can* be done, its just a matter of how comfortable you are with the change.


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## blakcloud (Apr 13, 2006)

Hollywood brings up a good point about being car-less in the dating world. I forgot about that one when I originally posted. Bottom line it was tough. Most women I went out with couldn't understand why I didn't have a car or a license. They thought this was odd, which I agree with on some level (at least you have a license and you can rent a Porsche for the day  ). I guess it all depends on the type of woman you are looking for, but the type of woman I was looking for is one who didn't care if I owned a car or not. Luckily I did find such a person so I am out of the dating pool but it was difficult, but not insurmountable.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

Mr. Versatile said:


> I would definitely not sell the car. I'd donate it. I'll pay shipping & I'll pm you with my addy.


hey man ....pick it up....doh......stop here and i'll ride with you, considering it's 2500 miles a few hundred as a out of the way detour doesn't matter much....


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

BentChainring said:


> I really almost have never have the need to cart more than one or two people around. Im a single guy, with no roomates. So it kinda works out well for me. And I did tell myself that it would be nice to own a sports car once in my life. Might as well be while I am young.
> 
> I am just weighing the options of keeping vs ditching it for now...
> 
> Thanks for all the insight!



psssssssssssssssst......some day you might meet a gal that needs a ride....... keep A car, doesn't have to be the mini.....like they said get a cheapie/beater and insure for liability only...that alone will probably save 150 bucks a month, another100 on fuel..and you would be recycling an old car....


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## Art853 (May 30, 2003)

Any date you show up for on a tandem is going to be a good date.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

Art853 said:


> Any date you show up for on a tandem is going to be a good date.


at least any date on which a gal accepts on a tandem is gonna be a good one......


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## BentChainring (Jun 23, 2005)

Touch0Gray said:


> psssssssssssssssst......some day you might meet a gal that needs a ride....... keep A car, doesn't have to be the mini.....like they said get a cheapie/beater and insure for liability only...that alone will probably save 150 bucks a month, another100 on fuel..and you would be recycling an old car....


Naw... since everyone in LA has a car... she can just pick me up... :-D


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

next thing you know she'll want to have her way with you then......poor Bent.......used and abused


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

in your dreams.....LOL


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## Leopold Porkstacker (Jul 15, 2005)

I don’t think my wife would go for that idea. We have a 2 1/2 year old and a 4 year old, so cars are sort of a must in her mind… nevermind the fact that she was born and raised in a third-world country where hardly anyone in her family had a car though…


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## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

Hollywood said:


> Also, ask Joe how well carless works out in the dating world


Exactly. Unless you're dating a fixie hipster chick, there will always be a stigma in this town attached to riding a bike. So not only can you not pick her up, drop her off, make out in the car, etc., she will think you're a loser ... a perception you can break but it will be there at the outset.


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## BentChainring (Jun 23, 2005)

DrRoebuck said:


> Exactly. Unless you're dating a fixie hipster chick, there will always be a stigma in this town attached to riding a bike. So not only can you not pick her up, drop her off, make out in the car, etc., she will think you're a loser ... a perception you can break but it will be there at the outset.


Oh crap! You mean I could lose all my wimminz?!?!


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## BentChainring (Jun 23, 2005)

Hmm... I have a lot of thinking to do...


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## Muaythaibike (Oct 26, 2007)

I would NEVER be without my car... just a crazy idea... I live in NE and it snows here a lot. During a storm I would be in the house for days at a time. There are times I just dont want to ride.. Just yesterday, I needed meds for my 5 year old. Lets see,, take bike at night for the 10 mile trip in 17 degree weather or hop in the car??? What's wrong with you people???

Or grocery shopping? Yea, pull a trailer with the bike.. Another great idea... LOL..


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## JoeDaddio (Sep 3, 2005)

Muaythaibike said:


> I would NEVER be without my car... just a crazy idea... I live in NE and it snows here a lot. During a storm I would be in the house for days at a time. There are times I just dont want to ride.. Just yesterday, I needed meds for my 5 year old. Lets see,, take bike at night for the 10 mile trip in 17 degree weather or hop in the car??? What's wrong with you people???
> 
> Or grocery shopping? Yea, pull a trailer with the bike.. Another great idea... LOL..



I go grocery shopping with my bike all the time. I load up my panniers with tons of crap, then strap a backpack to the top of the rack.

I also live in So. Cal. and don't have kids. The worst I have to deal with is rain and high 30's low 40's temps in the winter and 100+ degrees in the summer. I'd rather ride in the rain every day than have a few months of 100+ degree weather.


joe


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## Becky (Jun 15, 2004)

Muaythaibike said:


> Or grocery shopping? Yea, pull a trailer with the bike.. Another great idea... LOL..


Don't knock it 'til you've tried it. A BOB trailer works great for all sorts of shopping.


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## JohnnyTooBad (Apr 5, 2004)

Muaythaibike said:


> Or grocery shopping? Yea, pull a trailer with the bike.. Another great idea... LOL..


I've done a weeks worth of groceries for a family of 6. When I go grocery shopping on the bike, I pul a kid trailer that has a 100lb limit (can carry 2 kids). I probably had close to that in the trailer. I had 6 gallons of liquids (mostly milk and juice) with all the food. Nothing hard or weird about it at all. I did ride a bike with gears though. A single speed or fixie would be pushing it a bit.


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## PdxMark (Feb 3, 2004)

Touch0Gray said:


> psssssssssssssssst......some day you might meet a gal that needs a ride....... keep A car, doesn't have to be the mini.....like they said get a cheapie/beater and insure for liability only...that alone will probably save 150 bucks a month, another100 on fuel..and you would be recycling an old car....


Even better, join zipcar

http://www.zipcar.com/

Quick, short-term car usage... better than a better for the wimminz.

With kids, a car is very, very helpful. About 90% of my car trips are kid-related.


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## Kolossal (Feb 12, 2007)

Muaythaibike said:


> What's wrong with you people???


I'm fine, thanks.

Of course, being carless depends on where you live. For example, loads of people live a city and don't really need a car parked outside to run errands, go to work or shop. I know I don't. And, contrary to what you say, snow is rarely a factor. If I need a car, I have a car pooling parking near my home.

But then, if you live in suburbia, for example, it's a different situation.


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*not practical*

I'm married with 2 kids. Have to drop them off at 2 different schools on Tuesdays and Thursdays, then get to work. (I commute by bike Mon/Wed/Fri). I go to bike events out of town, sometimes 200 miles or so away. 

Then, the little things. Like this last Saturday. The hot water thing under the kitchen sink started leaking. While I could have attached the trailer and rode to the closest hardware store to get another, that would have added a good hour to the task. Got half way through the install, and discovered I need a few little plumbing fixtures. Back to the hardware store, and they did not carry what I needed. So, had to go to the ginormous hardware store further away to get what I needed. Oh, and all this is while I have the 4 and 6 year old with me, as mom was out doing other things. Would that have been *possible* without a car? I suppose. But, it would have taken hours longer. Pile on some rain and cold, and it starts looking ridiculous what you'd have to go through, just to avoid using a gallon of gas. This is my life, all the time. Car-less won't work. Besides, I get plenty of riding in.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

*Thoughts like this are*



Muaythaibike said:


> Or grocery shopping? Yea, pull a trailer with the bike.. Another great idea... LOL..


Part of the problem.

I can get most of my stuff in panniers, and might consider a trailer but haven't needed one. Day to day, I just shop more frequently for less stuff.

For bigger items, like 50 pound bags of flour, I borrow or rent a car. This is surprisingly cost effective given the price of things like car insurance and maintenance.

For instance, I rented a Mazda3 last weekend for $50, Friday through Sunday. That's not bad.


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## bwana (Feb 4, 2005)

Living in an urban area without kids is a completely different situation than living in the burbs with kids. While it is doable in the former, I don't think it would be possible to go carless in the latter. Urban with kids and burbs without, depends on the kids in the former and work location in the latter.


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## JoeDaddio (Sep 3, 2005)

Argentius said:


> Part of the problem.
> 
> I can get most of my stuff in panniers, and might consider a trailer but haven't needed one. Day to day, I just shop more frequently for less stuff.
> 
> ...



That's a 50lb bag of sand strapped to my rack along with two panniers stuffed full of shopping stuff.



<img src="https://yodaddio.smugmug.com/photos/429310693_EfcjH-L.jpg" border="5">


joe


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## bwana (Feb 4, 2005)

JoeDaddio said:


> That's a 50lb bag of sand strapped to my rack along with two panniers stuffed full of shopping stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> joe


And you've got to take it into the wind up a 5 mile 20% grade too!!!


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## exec (Dec 30, 2008)

I don't even know how to drive, not even motorbike. That has somehow put me in a situation in which I have no other options but to cycle. Indeed, I feel much more freedom cycling than I would sitting dead in a moving cubicle that farts continuously as long as it moves. I just feel good using the least of fuel-propelled vehicles.


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## JoeDaddio (Sep 3, 2005)

bwana said:


> And you've got to take it into the wind up a 5 mile 20% grade too!!!



Uphill both ways! In the snow!


joe


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*me too*



exec said:


> ..a moving cubicle that farts continuously as long as it moves


Sounds familiar. You been wheelsucking me?


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## snapdragen (Jan 28, 2004)

JoeDaddio said:


> That's a 50lb bag of sand strapped to my rack along with two panniers stuffed full of shopping stuff.
> 
> 
> joe


This is why you are becoming Skinny Joeh.... :thumbsup:


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## superjohnny (May 16, 2006)

You should read an article from the Wall Street Journal... http://sec.online.wsj.com/article/SB122996650443826683.html


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

*40-year-old virgin*



DrRoebuck said:


> Exactly. Unless you're dating a fixie hipster chick, there will always be a stigma in this town attached to riding a bike. So not only can you not pick her up, drop her off, make out in the car, etc., she will think you're a loser ... a perception you can break but it will be there at the outset.


Hey, Steve Carrell got the girl in "The 40-Year-Old-Virgin." It can happen.


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## JoeDaddio (Sep 3, 2005)

DrRoebuck said:


> Exactly. Unless you're dating a fixie hipster chick, there will always be a stigma in this town attached to riding a bike. So not only can you not pick her up, drop her off, make out in the car, etc., she will think you're a loser ... a perception you can break but it will be there at the outset.



I'm gonna buy an old Schwinn tandem. For the first date when I go to pick her up I'm going to ride it. If she says "Awesome!" and hops on and we ride to dinner, I'm going to have to marry her. If she's like "Ummm... You don't really expect me to ride a bike, do you?" I can just ride myself to the bar.


joe


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

Muaythaibike said:


> I would NEVER be without my car... just a crazy idea... I live in NE and it snows here a lot. During a storm I would be in the house for days at a time. There are times I just dont want to ride.. Just yesterday, I needed meds for my 5 year old. Lets see,, take bike at night for the 10 mile trip in 17 degree weather or hop in the car??? What's wrong with you people???
> 
> Or grocery shopping? Yea, pull a trailer with the bike.. Another great idea... LOL..


I'm finding that the trick is starting by trying to minimize the need for my car... 15 month old+wisconsin winter= have to drive to day care, but that doesn't mean I have to drive to work. 

There's no easy/safe way to get to the nearest grocery store in my neighborhood in the winter. Fine, I'll drive. But next year, I join the board for the local park and see if I can get the path through the park either paved or plowed in the winter, and suddenly, I can ride to the store for groceries year round. 

For most of us, getting rid of our cars isn't entirely practical. But you do what you can, and you'd be surprised how much money you save. You'd also be surprised at how many trips to the store you realize you didn't really need to make...


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## nonsleepingjon (Oct 18, 2002)

Fixed said:


> I'm married with 2 kids. Have to drop them off at 2 different schools on Tuesdays and Thursdays, then get to work. (I commute by bike Mon/Wed/Fri). I go to bike events out of town, sometimes 200 miles or so away.
> 
> Then, the little things. Like this last Saturday. The hot water thing under the kitchen sink started leaking. While I could have attached the trailer and rode to the closest hardware store to get another, that would have added a good hour to the task. Got half way through the install, and discovered I need a few little plumbing fixtures. Back to the hardware store, and they did not carry what I needed. So, had to go to the ginormous hardware store further away to get what I needed. Oh, and all this is while I have the 4 and 6 year old with me, as mom was out doing other things. Would that have been *possible* without a car? I suppose. But, it would have taken hours longer. Pile on some rain and cold, and it starts looking ridiculous what you'd have to go through, just to avoid using a gallon of gas. This is my life, all the time. Car-less won't work. Besides, I get plenty of riding in.


You pretty much summed up my reasons. Though I don't have kids, I often have several errands to run all over town that would be too time consuming on a bike. Picking up 20 bags of mulch or dirt for the yard would be an interesting logistical problem. My wife and I could probably get down to one car if we really wanted to, but the convenience of having our own vehicles has so far won out. Plus, the 90*F temps and 60%+ humidity of Texas summers are not conducive to riding, especially when you have to be presentable when you get some where.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Ftw!!


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## KenS (Jan 28, 2004)

*Minimize is right*



buck-50 said:


> I'm finding that the trick is starting by trying to minimize the need for my car... 15 month old+wisconsin winter= have to drive to day care, but that doesn't mean I have to drive to work.
> 
> ....
> 
> For most of us, getting rid of our cars isn't entirely practical. But you do what you can, and you'd be surprised how much money you save. You'd also be surprised at how many trips to the store you realize you didn't really need to make...


I agree with buck-50. Minimize has been my approach. I still need to use a car on some occasions but I don't need to use it for every little trip or task. I think one of the big holes that we Americans have dug ourselves into is the assumption/belief that a car is necessary for every task we encounter. 

Need to go a mile to mail a letter...must drive car. Need to go 2 miles to visit friend...must drive car. Need to go 1.5 miles to rent or return DVD ... must drive car. I am a parent and understand when someone says I need to drive a sick child to the doctor or pick up a sick child from school. You shouldn't feel guilty about that kind of use. But anyone can say to him/herself, "Do I really need to drive a car to get this job done?"


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

buck-50 said:


> I'm finding that the trick is starting by trying to minimize the need for my car... 15 month old+wisconsin winter= have to drive to day care, but that doesn't mean I have to drive to work.
> 
> There's no easy/safe way to get to the nearest grocery store in my neighborhood in the winter. Fine, I'll drive. But next year, I join the board for the local park and see if I can get the path through the park either paved or plowed in the winter, and suddenly, I can ride to the store for groceries year round.
> 
> For most of us, getting rid of our cars isn't entirely practical. But you do what you can, and you'd be surprised how much money you save. You'd also be surprised at how many trips to the store you realize you didn't really need to make...


cmon....kiddo loves to go for ride at 30 to 40 below wind chills......so do you......LOL


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## BentChainring (Jun 23, 2005)

Touch0Gray said:


> cmon....kiddo loves to go for ride at 30 to 40 below wind chills......so do you......LOL


Let the little bastiid HTFU...


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

Touch0Gray said:


> cmon....kiddo loves to go for ride at 30 to 40 below wind chills......so do you......LOL


Honestly, I doubt my little girl would mind too much- but my wife would probably kill me...


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## randi_526 (Jun 12, 2008)

When I'm home in Chicago, im 100% car free and have been for 2 years. It helps a lot to have my bank, a grocery store, several taco places, and a drugstore within 4 blocks of my apartment. I generally walk to the store and just do a couple days worth of shopping at a time, because its not a big deal to walk 5 minutes that often. I also have 2 bus lines 1 block away, and the train is 5 blocks. Sure its would be nice to be able to just get in a car and go instead of standing at a bus stop when its raining or 15F, but sitting on a bus reading a book is way better then sitting behind the wheel looking at traffic. Generally public transit is reserved for Jan, Feb, errands more than 10miles each way, and bars. Everything else is on the bike. I should point out that I don't have kids and live alone.

When I was home visiting family in Vermont a couple weeks ago though, everywhere I went was in a car. That was VT in the winter though, where the closest anything is about 2 miles away. If I still lived there, I would have a car. Only out of necessity though.


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## Muaythaibike (Oct 26, 2007)

I just find life way to busy not to have a car... The bike for me is fun NOT a way of life. Go shut off your electricy and water while your at it...Easy,,, just kidding... LOL


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## stevevance (Jun 6, 2007)

I think you should learn how to use the transit in LA and be comfortable with using the various local and express buses, as well as the subway and the light rail. Learn how to transport your bike on these vehicles. Transit, you'll find, can be very helpful to bicyclists, especially when inclement weather comes around. 

The ZipCar idea is very good, too. I'm sure you can ask around and find a friend or coworker who has a membership. It wouldn't even be that expensive to have the membership at the same time you own your car.

Both of these plans will help you transition better and you can start RIGHT NOW. 

FYI, I live in Chicago, and I'm a student. I pay a mandatory $95 fee to get unlimited transit rides for 4 months (one semester + a few days). But I bike 80% of the time. I don't subscribe to a car-sharing service because the nearest car is farther than the nearest grocery store.


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## flatbar (Dec 2, 2006)

*Do it...*

Here is a suggestion...

Sell your Mini and buy my Toyota Yaris that I am trying to sell right now. 

My girlfriend and I also live in LA and our work/school schedules allow us to share her Prius.

However, if it were just me, I think the idea of going car-less is a whole lot cooler than the reality of it. I LOVE riding and commuting (have an Xtracycle) but some days, as few as they are, I just don't want to ride. 

BUT...get rid of your expensive Mini and buy a gas saver...(like mine).

--tim


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## MTT (Oct 14, 2005)

Muaythaibike said:


> I would NEVER be without my car... just a crazy idea... I live in NE and it snows here a lot. During a storm I would be in the house for days at a time. There are times I just dont want to ride.. Just yesterday, I needed meds for my 5 year old. Lets see,, take bike at night for the 10 mile trip in 17 degree weather or hop in the car??? What's wrong with you people???
> 
> Or grocery shopping? Yea, pull a trailer with the bike.. Another great idea... LOL..



Maybe many of us live in cities?


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