# Froooome!!!



## velojon (Mar 8, 2006)

For me, this guy's the revelation of the TDF. I know he had a great Vuelta last year, but when you add in that kind of TT ability, he's right there with the best. My question, given that he's still a support rider for Wiggins, why does Sky let him ride all out in the ITT rather than conserving energy? Do they want him as a backup GC threat or do they just believe that he can fully recover with the rest day?


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

they want 2 guys on the Podium.

His ride today was not predictable by his past performances......suspisious to say the least.

We will see if he keeps this up all the way to Paris.

Len


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

Keep your spoilers out of the thread titles, knucklehead.


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## DonDenver (May 30, 2007)

Why is this thread not in the drug forum!? 

Damn. Pay attention people!


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## gusmahler (Apr 7, 2012)

Can't we just move all the doping discussion over to the doping forum? This thread and the ITT thread are already full of accusations.


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

Let's just put it in the clinic now, since we all know that's where it will be soon enough.


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## wblas3271 (May 12, 2012)

Len J said:


> they want 2 guys on the Podium.
> 
> His ride today was not predictable by his past performances......suspisious to say the least.
> 
> ...



He's a climber/TT specialist who did well on a hilly TT.


For some reason I am not surprised.


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## 88 rex (Mar 18, 2008)

Every thread about this years Tour should just be placed immediately into the doping forum.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

it was not that hilly.


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

I think it was pretty hilly. Millar said the climb in the first sector was "a proper climb". Tejay was quicker than FC through that first sector as well let's not forget and he's more of a climber...


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

wblas3271 said:


> He's a climber/TT specialist who did well on a hilly TT.
> 
> 
> For some reason I am not surprised.


Not much of a hilly TT and what has Fromme done outside of this year that makes you think he can beat Cancelerra when Cancelerra is having a good day?

Len


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## gusmahler (Apr 7, 2012)

Len J said:


> Not much of a hilly TT and what has Fromme done outside of this year that makes you think he can beat Cancelerra when Cancelerra is having a good day?
> 
> Len


Last year's Vuelta:


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

roddjbrown said:


> I think it was pretty hilly. Millar said the climb in the first sector was "a proper climb". Tejay was quicker than FC through that first sector as well let's not forget and he's more of a climber...


I saw Millar being interviewed after the TT and he said that parts of the course were really hilly. He hadn’t done a recon and had been advised to use the big ring all the way round. He said that on the hilly parts he had to move to the smaller chain ring and bigger cogs (IIRC he said everything moved to the left).


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

gusmahler said:


> Last year's Vuelta:


Which was a ride of a lifetime...if I remember correctly. And a ride that was disimilar (as is this) to anything he had ever done before.
You have to ask yourself...what changed suddenly at the age of 26?

As I said.......suspious.

Len


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## flyrunride (May 2, 2012)

Wow didn't expect Froome to beat FC's time by that much but I'm thinking Sky, given the chance would like to have 2 podium in Paris. That would be great for the team


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

roddjbrown said:


> I think it was pretty hilly. Millar said the climb in the first sector was "a proper climb". Tejay was quicker than FC through that first sector as well let's not forget and he's more of a climber...


It was 150 meters.

Hardly worth the time they put into Cancelerra.

Len


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## wblas3271 (May 12, 2012)

Len J said:


> Which was a ride of a lifetime...if I remember correctly. And a ride that was disimilar (as is this) to anything he had ever done before.
> You have to ask yourself...what changed suddenly at the age of 26?
> 
> As I said.......suspious.
> ...



So he beat him last year in a TT...

Then again this year....

On dissimilar courses...

Yeah, you're right. Just a fluke.


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

Len J said:


> It was 150 meters.
> 
> Hardly worth the time they put into Cancelerra.
> 
> Len


I like cyclists who ride the gradient map not the road. Millar's a TT specialist - if he says it was a proper climb he might have a point


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## wblas3271 (May 12, 2012)

Len J said:


> It was 150 meters.
> 
> Hardly worth the time they put into Cancelerra.
> 
> Len



It would appear the clock has already determined otherwise.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

wblas3271 said:


> It would appear the clock has already determined otherwise.


 
The question is how.

Even passionate Sky and Wiggins lovers have to raise an eyebrow if they are paying attention at all.

IMO

Len


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Can anyone win and not be under suspicion? FC hasn't been the best in a while and yesterday's stage might have been very tough on him. Tony Martin is injured. Wiggo has won basically all the TTs this year. Froome has beaten Wiggo in the past, so I don't know why finishing close behind is that shocking.


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## Bullvine (Sep 9, 2009)

It's the TDF going back to 1903 I find nothing suspicious Froome always had it in him.
Personally I can't wate for Alberto to get off drug suspension double down and restore order 
In next years tour.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

wblas3271 said:


> So he beat him last year in a TT...
> 
> Then again this year....
> 
> ...


Who said it was a fluke? 

I said it was suspious......there is quite a difference.

I'd love to know what has changed for Fromme that took him from an OK rider to a super rider between 2010 and the Vuelta in 2011. 

It's certainly possible it is better training. 

But you have to wonder.

Len


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Len J said:


> Who said it was a fluke?
> 
> I said it was suspious......there is quite a difference.
> 
> ...


Cobo also went from anonymous to the Vuelta winner.


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## gizzard (Oct 5, 2005)

Len J said:


> Not much of a hilly TT and what has Fromme done outside of this year that makes you think he can beat Cancelerra when Cancelerra is having a good day?
> 
> Len


Jeez Len, did you see that course today? That was pretty damn hilly for a 'flat' TT. The two best TT guys on the Pro Tour, Cancellara and Martin, are way below their best for obvious reasons, and so I'm not in the least surprised by today's Sky result. What I can't get my head around is someone like Cobo: How can he shell everyone in last year's Vuelta and not even be in the ball park at this year's Tour. Is he riding the Tour as preparation for the Vuelta? If so, that's plain screwy in this day and age.


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## gizzard (Oct 5, 2005)

foto said:


> it was not that hilly.


14% says you're wrong. Unless of course 14% isn't a hill in your book.


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## gizzard (Oct 5, 2005)

spade2you said:


> Can anyone win and not be under suspicion? FC hasn't been the best in a while and yesterday's stage might have been very tough on him. Tony Martin is injured. Wiggo has won basically all the TTs this year. Froome has beaten Wiggo in the past, so I don't know why finishing close behind is that shocking.


+ 1 trillion. Best post all day. :thumbsup:


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## Ppopp (Jun 20, 2011)

Len J said:


> they want 2 guys on the Podium.
> 
> His ride today was not predictable by his past performances......suspisious to say the least.
> 
> ...


Len - An equally likely explanation is that Froome is clean, always was, and is now showing his true potential on a level playing field. In fact, I personally find this explanation more likely. This theory can also explain how Ryder was able to win the Giro for the first time in his early 30s.

I hate what dopers have done to the sport and accept that once upon a time when most (if not all) successes were achieved by doping. But I'm choosing not to let my skepticism ruin my enjoyment of the sport when there is really no evidence that someone is cheating.


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## Ppopp (Jun 20, 2011)

I think Cervelo should hire Froome as a consultant so they can write "Vroomen Froome Design" on their chainstays!


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## gusmahler (Apr 7, 2012)

gizzard said:


> 14% says you're wrong. Unless of course 14% isn't a hill in your book.


I've seen people say 14%, but I don't know where that comes from. 14% was the incline at the end of stage 7, and it didn't look like that.

The profile at Steephill makes is look like a 150 meter hill in the space of a little less than 2 km, about 7-8%. Still pretty serious, but not 14%.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

spade2you said:


> Can anyone win and not be under suspicion? FC hasn't been the best in a while and yesterday's stage might have been very tough on him. Tony Martin is injured. Wiggo has won basically all the TTs this year. Froome has beaten Wiggo in the past, so I don't know why finishing close behind is that shocking.


and on stage 7 pretty much everyone and their dead grandmother happened to have an off day. Lucky for sky.


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## gizzard (Oct 5, 2005)

den bakker said:


> and on stage 7 pretty much everyone and their dead grandmother happened to have an off day. Lucky for sky.


Not really. Sky monstered everyone by being the best prepared, most focused team at this year's Tour with what appears to be the two strongest riders in the mountains. Stick around. It's going to happen again, probably on more than one occasion. Wait till Richie Porte gets stuck in.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

gizzard said:


> Not really. Sky monstered everyone by being the best prepared, most focused team at this year's Tour with what appears to be the two strongest riders in the mountains. Stick around. It's going to happen again, probably on more than one occasion. Wait till Richie Porte gets stuck in.


so that's what it is down to? the others not training hard enough and not wanting it enough? Sounds familiar somehow. Did they work on their aero position as well?


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## gizzard (Oct 5, 2005)

den bakker said:


> so that's what it is down to? the others not training hard enough and not wanting it enough? Sounds familiar somehow. Did they work on their aero position as well?


Bingo. You've answered your own question.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

gizzard said:


> Jeez Len, did you see that course today? That was pretty damn hilly for a 'flat' TT. The two best TT guys on the Pro Tour, Cancellara and Martin, are way below their best for obvious reasons, and so I'm not in the least surprised by today's Sky result. What I can't get my head around is someone like Cobo: How can he shell everyone in last year's Vuelta and not even be in the ball park at this year's Tour. Is he riding the Tour as preparation for the Vuelta? If so, that's plain screwy in this day and age.


 
One climb of 150 meters.....and both Fromme and Wiggins took additional time our of FC from the top of the climb to the finish....where you would expect FC to gain back some.

Len


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

gizzard said:


> Not really. Sky monstered everyone by being the best prepared, most focused team at this year's Tour with what appears to be the two strongest riders in the mountains. Stick around. It's going to happen again, probably on more than one occasion. Wait till Richie Porte gets stuck in.


Also known as the Postal/Disco fanboy excuse! Be careful of the sand, some of is known to contain harmful reality sapping stuff!


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

gizzard said:


> Bingo. You've answered your own question.


those lazy pros.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

coop said:


> Also known as the Postal/Disco fanboy excuse! Be careful of the sand, some of is known to contain harmful reality sapping stuff!


Riis was way ahead of Postal


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

gizzard said:


> Bingo. You've answered your own question.


Seems like we've answered the question of who the fanboys are...


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

gizzard said:


> Bingo. You've answered your own question.


Yeah, why would any other team prepare themselves for a little provencial race in France?


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## gusmahler (Apr 7, 2012)

Len J said:


> One climb of 150 meters.....and both Fromme and Wiggins took additional time our of FC from the top of the climb to the finish....where you would expect FC to gain back some.
> 
> Len


You keep mentioning "150 meters" without mentioning the other part to determining how steep a climb is, the horizontal length. Here, the rise was 150 meters over a distance of under 2km, about an 8% grade.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

gusmahler said:


> You keep mentioning "150 meters" without mentioning the other part to determining how steep a climb is, the horizontal length. Here, the rise was 150 meters over a distance of under 2km, about an 8% grade.


and the rest of the course, where the swim team was also consistently faster?


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

gusmahler said:


> You keep mentioning "150 meters" without mentioning the other part to determining how steep a climb is, the horizontal length. Here, the rise was 150 meters over a distance of under 2km, about an 8% grade.


And Cancellera has climbed harder hills with great performances in the classics...../what's your point? 

Mine is that 
a.) it wasn't a killer hill....hard yes, but not killer
b.) Cancellera was in good enough shape to beat the rest of the field
c,) Both Fromme and Wiggins expended harder efforts on Sat and Sunday...especially on Sunday
d,) Fromme and Wiggens both took additional time out of FC in the remaining 2/3rds.......where you would expect a TT specialist to excel.

Now none of us really know what really happened to each individual to result in this.........but Fromme's performance was at the worst, surprising. Wiggins......a little less so.

IMO

Len


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

Len J said:


> And Cancellera has climbed harder hills with great performances in the classics...../what's your point?
> 
> Mine is that
> a.) it wasn't a killer hill....hard yes, but not killer
> ...


Len, for someone who claims to want to believe its clean you're spending a lot of time writing about your "suspions" (sic) in various threads. Also it's Froome. And Wiggins

Cancellara has said his legs were tired from the two days before. So perhaps that helps explain the unexplainable


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

roddjbrown said:


> Cancellara has said his legs were tired from the two days before. So perhaps that helps explain the unexplainable


LOL.

Len


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

roddjbrown said:


> Cancellara has said his legs were tired from the two days before. So perhaps that helps explain the unexplainable


whereas the guys that took 12 minutes on him were as fresh as ever


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

den bakker said:


> whereas the guys that took 12 minutes on him were as fresh as ever


Or just fresher. OR they're definitely guilty until proven innocent because if you're doping the obvious thing to do is smash the opposition because that won't draw any attention to it...oh


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

roddjbrown said:


> Or just fresher.


because we all know the faster you go up a hill the fresher you are the next day. cancellara was doodling his way up, the swim team was shredding the peloton to pieces. And Cancellara is the tired one.


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

It's funny how all the Brit/Sky fanboys are starting to sound like the Armstrong fanboys! Lance came back from cancer, Froome came back from snail fever. Maybe he can start a foundation and call it "Snailstrong"!


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

coop said:


> It's funny how all the Brit/Sky fanboys are starting to sound like the Armstrong fanboys! Lance came back from cancer, Froome came back from snail fever. Maybe he can start a foundation and call it "Snailstrong"!


LOL! For what it's worth I'm no Sky fanboy. I genuinely don't like Wiggins (for that matter I can't stand Evans either) although I'll always have a soft spot for Cav.

My thoughts were the number of American fans quick to say that because of one hilltop finish and one TT we're back in United States Postal Service territory.


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

den bakker said:


> because we all know the faster you go up a hill the fresher you are the next day. cancellara was doodling his way up, the swim team was shredding the peloton to pieces. And Cancellara is the tired one.


..which conveniently omits the other half of my post. 

It's clear that by saying they might be clean I'm fighting a losing battle so I shall bow out


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## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

spade2you said:


> Can anyone win and not be under suspicion? FC hasn't been the best in a while and yesterday's stage might have been very tough on him. Tony Martin is injured. Wiggo has won basically all the TTs this year. Froome has beaten Wiggo in the past, so I don't know why finishing close behind is that shocking.


The past 20 years has taught us that the answer to your question is no. Anyone that thinks otherwise is either naive or choosing willful ignorance.


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## superjesus (Jul 26, 2010)

Who'd have thought that Cancellara losing a TT would be so controversial?


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## gusmahler (Apr 7, 2012)

superjesus said:


> Who'd have thought that Cancellara losing a TT would be so controversial?


I just wish Tony Martin didn't have a flat.


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## wblas3271 (May 12, 2012)

We should keep this thread going until Len spells "Suspicious" correctly. "Suspious" is my personal favorite so far.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

wblas3271 said:


> We should keep this thread going until Len spells "Suspicious" correctly. "Suspious" is my personal favorite so far.


Fat thumbing it on the phone.

Glad I could entertain you.

Lne


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## superjesus (Jul 26, 2010)

wblas3271 said:


> We should keep this thread going until Len spells "Suspicious" correctly. "Suspious" is my personal favorite so far.


I lol'd.


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## Frith (Oct 3, 2002)

*Anyone care to look at some numbers?*

These are not superhuman performances. http://www.sportsscientists.com/2012/07/tour-in-mountains-analysis-discussion.html


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## gizzard (Oct 5, 2005)

Frith said:


> These are not superhuman performances. http://www.sportsscientists.com/2012/07/tour-in-mountains-analysis-discussion.html


Great link. Thanks for posting. This should be obligatory reading for anyone interested in the physiology of cycling. 
:thumbsup:


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

Watching itv's tdf so far and I couldn't help noticing in that TT sprint Froome's body shape is just bizarre. All cyclists are gangly but Froome looks ridiculous!


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## velojon (Mar 8, 2006)

Agree - I always thought he would just be a skinny climber dude, but he might be in that veru small elite group that can climb and TT (all doping considerations aside). And watching him climb this year and in the Vuelta last year, it seems like Wiggins is holding him back sometimes, that he could be even more aggressive if set free.


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

Yep I think so too. Sure Wiggo can TT faster but with a team supporting him Froome is a clear GC contender. Not sure how Sky will deal with it next year - they have a few riders who I think have team leader potential, particularly in Thomas and Froome. Could be some exciting tours ahead with Nibali, Tejay etc.


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