# 23c vs. 25c



## cinnepa

in the market for new tires, always rode 23c's...just wondering and tinkering with the idea of going to 25c's (possible smoother ride?) - ride in pennsylvania, no racing at all but i like a good performance tire; nothing too heavy - roads not too bad but condition of pave varies on every ride. running 6'-2", 185lbs.....just wanted to get some +/- feedback from those who switched to 25's.
tire i'm looking at now is the vittoria zaffiro pro clincher.


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## danl1

cinnepa said:


> in the market for new tires, always rode 23c's...just wondering and tinkering with the idea of going to 25c's (possible smoother ride?) - ride in pennsylvania, no racing at all but i like a good performance tire; nothing too heavy - roads not too bad but condition of pave varies on every ride. running 6'-2", 185lbs.....just wanted to get some +/- feedback from those who switched to 25's.
> tire i'm looking at now is the vittoria zaffiro pro clincher.


I'm same size as you, sound about like the same sort of rider and roads (NE Ohio here.) Get the 25's, dial back the pressure a little, and enjoy.

Can't speak to Zaffiro's. I used to run Rubino Pros, enjoyed those plenty. Running Conti GP4000's now - just what was in stock at PBK last time I ordered. Liking those, too. It's too early to tell, but it seems like the Rubino's have a softer compound - arguably better grip, but shorter life. But I haven't pushed the handling or the mileage enough to say either is fact.


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## Uprwstsdr

I am quite a bit heavier than you and just switched to 25's (Bontrager Race X-lite AC's). I only have about 100 miles on them but was very happy with how they rode. I am a convert.


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## Slim Again Soon

*No regrets*

I left 23s behind and now ride 25s or 28s.

I'm never going back. Better ride, better grip. Fewer flats.

I don't see any downside at all.


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## longhorn31

I'm also the same size as you and I've been riding 25's for a few years....I won't be going back to 23's mainly because the ride is so much better. Your roads sound much like mine in SE Massachusetts. Also, I don't race either....ride about 2.5k per year. 

I've been riding Vredstein Fortezza TriComps and Michelin Krylion Carbons. The Michelin's ride a little harder than the TriComps, but seem to have a little better flat protection (an admitted subjective observation). I like them both.


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## Bocephus Jones II

cinnepa said:


> in the market for new tires, always rode 23c's...just wondering and tinkering with the idea of going to 25c's (possible smoother ride?) - ride in pennsylvania, no racing at all but i like a good performance tire; nothing too heavy - roads not too bad but condition of pave varies on every ride. running 6'-2", 185lbs.....just wanted to get some +/- feedback from those who switched to 25's.
> tire i'm looking at now is the vittoria zaffiro pro clincher.


I weigh 200 and ride a 23 front and a 25 rear most times.


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## cinnepa

just rode the vitt. zaffiro pro's last night..........i'm sold.


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## MerlinAma

Is anyone having trouble getting 25's to fit in their frames?

I think someone is coming out with a new 24 tire as it will fit most frames where a 25 would not. Actually just googled 24 tires and there are a few now.


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## MR_GRUMPY

With some frames, you will not be able to fit a 25. Many frames (but not all) that are designed for racing are limited to 23mm tires.
Two of my friends, one with a 13 year old Waterford, and the other with a 8 year old Waterford, were limited to 23mm tires. The one with a 13 year old Waterford, just got a 2008 model, and the frame fits a 25 easily.


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## de.abeja

25's freaking rule. For every reason mentioned above.


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## 8Ring

I'm 6'4' and weigh 190 lbs. I switched from 23c Zaffiro wire bead to 25c Zaffiro Pro kevlar bead on my Jamis Ventura Elite. 

The difference in ride and handling was immediately noticeable. When inflated to 115psi, the 23c tires transfered a lot of vibration on chip-seal roads that became unpleasant after 90 minutes. The 25c tires at 105-110 psi roll smoother, transmit much less vibration, and corner better. The difference in rolling resistance between the two sizes is slight to non-existant. 

If you want a really good 25c, check the Vredestein Fortezza Tricomp. It's a 120 thread per inch tire that offers very good handling and a supple ride. It is more prone to cuts than the Vittorias but you might find them on sale at Nashbar for $30 each.

Chris


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## yakky

Go for it, I love my 25's. Check clearance befor you order though, like it has been posted, the agressive frames do not have room for them.


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## rogerstg

I put 25s on my rain bike - I like the ride so much that my next set on my main ride will be 25s. They made a huge diff for me and I'm a bit smaller at 160. They didn't seem to change the average speed of that bike either.


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## lawrence

I can't believe so many like the 25s. I weigh between 210-242 lbs biking and have 5 sets of wheels with 1 having the 25s, the others 23s. I've ridden the 25s past 3 falls, 3 early springs, and 2 winters and then a lot in the summer. I probably have 5,000 miles on them. I'll never get the 25s again. I noticed no improvement in ride quality or flat reduction, they are Kendas and are actually 26s. When they wear out, it's 23s.

By the way, I have a pair of Vittoria Zaffiro, wire bead, and get between 8,000-10,000 miles on them.


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## Giant1

*ProRace2's 23 vs 25*

My 2005 Giant OCR C2 came stock with Michelin Pro Race2's in 25 width. I put around 2500 miles on them and than swapped them out with Pro Race 2's in 23 width just to see the difference. The 23's road about 10-15% harsher with a slight? improvement in speed ramp up. Other than the weight difference in the tire, and the slight acceleration improvement, I'm going back to the 25's as soon as the 23's wear out.The comfort is just that much better with the 25's.


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## danl1

lawrence said:


> I can't believe so many like the 25s. I weigh between 210-242 lbs biking and have 5 sets of wheels with 1 having the 25s, the others 23s. I've ridden the 25s past 3 falls, 3 early springs, and 2 winters and then a lot in the summer. I probably have 5,000 miles on them. I'll never get the 25s again. I noticed no improvement in ride quality or flat reduction, they are Kendas and are actually 26s. When they wear out, it's 23s.
> 
> By the wear, I have a pair of Vittoria Zaffiro, wire bead, and get between 8,000-10,000 miles on them.


Just curious - do you run them at the same pressures?

And maybe there's a difference in tires - Kenda's aren't known as particularly special tire.


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## Oldteen

Another vote for 25's, especially this time of year. More rubber on the road never hurts on the rougher roads.


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## lookrider

Yup, 25's. I've been riding a 25 rear with about 90 to 95psi. I weigh 175. Feels much nicer even on fairly smooth Florida roads.

As soon as my 23's wear out, I'll stick to 25's front and rear.


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## Wayne Jacobsen

I'll chime in for fatter tires. I just changed from 23 to 26 (Grand Bois Cerf, available from Bicycle Quarterly) on my Wilier Izoard. Running them at 100 psi versus 120 for the 23s. I'm not sure if subjective opinions over this sort of thing are reliable, but my reactions are : (i) when the road is very smooth, its hard to tell the difference, and (ii) the wider tires are noticably better over rough patches. If there is a difference in rolling resistance, its too small for me to detect. 

The bike rode just fine with 23s, so this is icing on the cake. I'm tempted to try 28s next time.


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## jhamlin38

i'm 185 and run 23/25r of GP4seasons. I run the rear at about 105psi. I couldn't be happier with this setup. Very durable tires. Ride in central New Jersey. I used to ride ziffiros as 23's and didn't like 'em.  Much prefer the Conti gp4seasons. and what I say goes...goes...


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## Dinosaur

Keep in mind that some tire manufacturers fudge on tire size. A 25mm might be closer to a 23mm with some brands. A Michelin 25 will be a 25. Conti's run small. They fudge as it makes their tires lighter. A larger tire will soften the ride and you will get more mileage.


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## Kerry Irons

*Small Conti?*



Dinosaur said:


> Keep in mind that some tire manufacturers fudge on tire size. A 25mm might be closer to a 23mm with some brands. A Michelin 25 will be a 25. Conti's run small. They fudge as it makes their tires lighter. A larger tire will soften the ride and you will get more mileage.


I have no experience with 25 mm Continentals, but in a 23mm size, the original Cont Grand Prix, the GP 3000, and the GP 4000 have all been exactly 23 mm width.


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## upstateSC-rider

I'm using those Cont 700 x 24 tires and really liking them. Great ride characteristics compared to the 23's I've raced/ridden on. I'm about 194 and run 100 psi with both sizes.


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## skipbech

Wow this is an interesting thread. I'm 210, and 50+. I've put 1500 miles on my 23s pumped up to 125 psi this year. I ride with younger riders, and like staying in the front. I have been looking for every advantage. I just bought a Caad9 that should arrive tomorrow. I was planning on buying new 23s for it, but perhaps I'll try the 25s that are on it for a while.


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## Bocephus Jones II

skipbech said:


> Wow this is an interesting thread. I'm 210, and 50+. I've put 1500 miles on my 23s pumped up to 125 psi this year. I ride with younger riders, and like staying in the front. I have been looking for every advantage. I just bought a Caad9 that should arrive tomorrow. I was planning on buying new 23s for it, but perhaps I'll try the 25s that are on it for a while.


You need Super Record 11 speed.


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## rkj__

I had 20s, I now ride 26s. The best part is not being paranoid about flats any time i go over any kind of bump in the road. I run much lower pressure in the 26s than i did with the 20s.


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## Dinosaur

*Article about tire sizing by Sheldon Brown (R.I.P.)*

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire_sizing.html

scroll down page to "Dishonesty In Sizing"


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## Howzitbroke

I am a big fan of high volume tires. 25c is the smallest I will run. I like 28's best and find lower pressures with higher volmume gets a smoother ride, more forgiveness, higher grip, they may be a little heavier but for the ride, it is worth the compromise.


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## Slim Again Soon

*Pressure?*

What pressure are you running in those 28s?

And 20s and 26s -- where do you buy tires, rkj, OddSizesRuS?

I've heard of 20s, though I've never seen a pair .. but 26s?


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## Wayne Jacobsen

Bicycle Quarterly sells 26s and other wide tires.


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## Lewis_Levin

*28s and 32s*

Why stop at 25?

I started running kevlar bead 28s on my touring bike at 85lbs. Very comfy.

On my cross bike (commuter, trainer) I run 32s at 65 lbs and it's very comfy despite being an aluminum frame.

When you look at tires, don't just look at width. Different tires have a different cross section. Look at height. Specialized 23s and 25s are not only narrow but very low profile. Panaracer 28s are nearly round in cross section, so they are very high profile. Height provides cushion for comfort and flat prevention.


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## Slim Again Soon

*Dialing down the pressure*

I'm running 28s, too, and am trying to tune in the pressure.

Started at 95 -- that didn't last long.

Now running 85 rear, 80 front, and I think I'll take it down from there, at least five pounds a tire.


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## CurbDestroyer

Another vote for 25c. I've experienced less pinch flats, without any perfomance dis-advantage. I've been using 25c for about a year now. We had a lot of them at the shop, so I started using them. They work fine for me. 

I remember someone doing a test between 18c and 23c and 23c was faster because of the suspension effect of the fatter tire.


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## RandB

In the spring when the 35mm studded tires come off I am planning to mount 28mm tires on the rims instead of the 23mm tires that were used this year. Until recently I thought that generally the narrower the tire the faster it was, but have been learning otherwise lately which was quite a surprise and still is an idea difficult for me to accept because narrow tires are so much associated with the faster bicycles that it seemed obvious and certain and common sense that narrow tires and rims must be faster.


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## Marvin8

Sorry to revive and old thread, but I'm curious to know what the minimum safe clearance should be between tire and fork bridge? thanks


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## Blue CheeseHead

MerlinAma said:


> Is anyone having trouble getting 25's to fit in their frames?
> 
> I think someone is coming out with a new 24 tire as it will fit most frames where a 25 would not. Actually just googled 24 tires and there are a few now.


On my 2004 Trek 5900 a 25 would rub the crown of my fork so I ran a 23 up front and 25 in back.


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## Fishermike

I ran 25 c front and 28 c rear this summer (Vittoria Zaffiro pro rear and Rubino pro front). I did fit a 28 to the front. It picked up some road sand and the front clearance was so tight, it 'sanded' the wheel side of my carbon fork. Back to 25c front and 28 rear for me.


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## Lombard

Fishermike said:


> I ran 25 c front and 28 c rear this summer (Vittoria Zaffiro pro rear and Rubino pro front). I did fit a 28 to the front. It picked up some road sand and the front clearance was so tight, it 'sanded' the wheel side of my carbon fork. Back to 25c front and 28 rear for me.


Whatever works for you.


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## Oldteen

14 year old thread. Must be come kind of record


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## cxwrench

Fishermike said:


> I ran 25 c front and 28 c rear this summer (Vittoria Zaffiro pro rear and Rubino pro front). I did fit a 28 to the front. It picked up some road sand and the front clearance was so tight, it 'sanded' the wheel side of my carbon fork. Back to 25c front and 28 rear for me.


That's great. 10 years after the last reply in a thread where the topic is very old news. Well done.


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## No Time Toulouse

Wow, I remember 2008.......back when 25mm tires were considered BIG! Gee, just look at how much we've changed in 14 years, now that it seems 28mm is the bare minimum for tire width.....


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## Lombard

No Time Toulouse said:


> Wow, I remember 2008.......back when 25mm tires were considered BIG! Gee, just look at how much we've changed in 14 years, now that it seems 28mm is the bare minimum for tire width.....


Yeah, back when I bought my 2007 Trek Pilot 5.0, fellow riders were criticizing the choice of 25mm tires on it when most roadies were still riding 23mm tires. I got comments like "You will go so much faster on 23mm tires". I'm now riding 28mm tires on both my road bikes and will never go back.


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## No Time Toulouse

I'm old enough to remember the occasional 'crazy roadie' buying a set of 18mm track tubulars for his bike because he was looking for 'something faster' than his 19mm wides.....


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