# Contador to face Armstrong in Criterium International



## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

Well things are getting interesting early this year. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contador-to-face-armstrong-in-criterium-international


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## pdh777 (Oct 7, 2005)

Don't know if LA will be riding it to win - Conty will probably go for it though.


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## Sasquatch (Feb 3, 2004)

LA's gonna call in sick come race day.


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## Don Duende (Sep 13, 2007)

El Pistolero is gunning for a showdown prior to the TdF.


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

lance is really starting to embarass himself


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

It's interesting, but we shouldn't speculate this "rivalry" as there's an infinite number of hidden meanings behind what happens these days. For all we know, RS is playing possum when it comes to races with Contador before the TDF - it can be as ridiculous as that.

As for the race itself, I'm sure both are using it as some pre-TDF training measure at least. Any results aside from winning won't necessarily indicate a thing about either of them. I mean, I highly doubt LA would win, but whatever position he gets is what he gets.


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## jcr7u (May 11, 2009)

I am most intrigued by the fact that Astana is not fielding a team for Paris-Roubaix. If Contador is going for other Classics races, why not Roubaix? I would think that he would excel on the climbs there. Even if he can't, they don't have any other contenders? I thought Astana was one of "the" teams out there.

Full disclosure: I am still developing my knowledge of pro cycling, so go easy on me.


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## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

LA and Contador aside I think its going to be way more interesting to watch what happens with Veno.


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

Stage one looks really tough with a beast of an uphill finish, very well suited to Contador. The other two stages will be sprint finishes.


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## Sasquatch (Feb 3, 2004)

jcr7u said:


> I am most intrigued by the fact that Astana is not fielding a team for Paris-Roubaix. If Contador is going for other Classics races, why not Roubaix? I would think that he would excel on the climbs there. Even if he can't, they don't have any other contenders? I thought Astana was one of "the" teams out there.
> 
> Full disclosure: I am still developing my knowledge of pro cycling, so go easy on me.


there are no climbs in Paris-Roubaix :thumbsup:


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

Sasquatch said:


> there are no climbs in Paris-Roubaix :thumbsup:


.. and no invitation to Astana by ASO


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## Sasquatch (Feb 3, 2004)

I also read in Cyclingnews that Astana told ASO to give their invite to another team. Dunno how true that is though.


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

LOL!!! Yeah... he should roll right over them as if they weren't even there.


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## BassNBrew (Aug 4, 2008)

Sasquatch said:


> LA's gonna call in sick come race day.


Care to wager on that?


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Seeing Jens isn't there, my interest in the CI is a lot less this year.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

me likey.

one, two, three, four,....I declare a thumb war!!!!!


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## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

jcr7u said:


> I am most intrigued by the fact that Astana is not fielding a team for Paris-Roubaix. If Contador is going for other Classics races, why not Roubaix? I would think that he would excel on the climbs there. Even if he can't, they don't have any other contenders? I thought Astana was one of "the" teams out there.
> 
> Full disclosure: I am still developing my knowledge of pro cycling, so go easy on me.


I read your disclosure so I will go easy on you 
Roubaix has no climbs but a hell of a lot of uneven tiles.
You must be thinking of Flanders.


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## rubbersoul (Mar 1, 2010)

The closing time trial is only 7.5 km, prologue distance. It will be interesting to see the Lance - Alberto time gap.
________
Headshop


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

How ironic that Armstrong ducked out of Catalunya to avoid facing Contador...

AC has said that P-N was hard and that caused him to look again at his race schedule. That he is prepared to engage with a different model of Tour prep is absolutely to be applauded. As for his chances? Like P-N this is all about assessing his - and the team's - form. The fact that the race format should ideally suit him - big MTF, conky 'flat' stage and short TdF - should be ideal for doing just that. And it takes the pressure off.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

philippec said:


> .. and no invitation to Astana by ASO


Not so much no invitation (Astana is a ProTour team and so gets an automatic invite) as a negotiation between Astana and ASO to let Astana out of their obligation to ride so another wild card team better suited to the race could go.


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

asgelle said:


> Not so much no invitation (Astana is a ProTour team and so gets an automatic invite) as a negotiation between Astana and ASO to let Astana out of their obligation to ride so another wild card team better suited to the race could go.


But Paris-Roubaix isn't a ProTour race; it's on the UCI calendar as a "Historic" race.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

Undecided said:


> But Paris-Roubaix isn't a ProTour race; it's on the UCI calendar as a "Historic" race.


http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/3...baix-invite-goes-to-Pro-Continental-team.aspx


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

asgelle said:


> http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/3...baix-invite-goes-to-Pro-Continental-team.aspx


Yes, but the ProTour teams only have an "obligation" (your original word) to do the ProTour races---they have a "right" to do the Historic races, I think (which seems consistent with that article). There's a big difference between being obligated to do something (and having to negotiate to get out) and having a right to do something (when you can just say "I'll pass" and let the other guy portray it with a smile in the press).


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## root (Sep 13, 2007)

alexb618 said:


> lance is really starting to embarass himself


Why do you say that?


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## BikeFixer (May 19, 2009)

Coolhand said:


> Seeing Jens isn't there, my interest in the CI is a lot less this year.


Yeah same here


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

root said:


> Why do you say that?


He's a big fan.


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## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

A lot off topic, but whatever happened to the whole end of season talk last year about astana? Werent they dead meat by most people's assesment? Remember they didnt even pay salaries for awhile. And wasnt Contador going to "definitely " go to another team...possibly some new spanish team? Am I imagining all this?


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

Not at all - but then Astana paid a hefty guarantee to the UCI, changed management and made some interesting new signings. It does rather beg the question that, if Contador is on a supposedly 'weak' team and continues to be as successful as he has been early season, what he'll do if he goes to a strong team


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## Circlip (Jul 26, 2005)

bigmig19 said:


> A lot off topic, but whatever happened to the whole end of season talk last year about astana? Werent they dead meat by most people's assesment? Remember they didnt even pay salaries for awhile. And wasnt Contador going to "definitely " go to another team...possibly some new spanish team? Am I imagining all this?


My summary recollection is that it was extermely difficult from the media reports to understand exactly why the screws were being tightened on cash flow for salaries, and whether it originated from the Kazakh side, or whether they were justified in using financial means (as the owner) against Bruyneel and his management company who were possibly refusing to operate the team according to the interests of the Kazak owners. It was really tough to make heads or tails of this since JB had far better access to cycling media outlets, and especially English-speaking media, to portray their side as fact. That's a bit different than the usual situation where the major financial backer is purely a sponsor without any implied management control. Who knows what the contract said about where the balance of control and power was supposed to sit between the Kazakhs and Bruyneel?

The existence of the team was always going to be largely dependent on their #1 asset Contador. When Bruyneel and the Kazakhs were slugging it out, Contador started looking after his own interests, and naturally there were several open doors waiting for him including the formation of a new team backed by F1 star Alonso. The unknown status of the entire situation dragged on for so long that the Alonso project became a complete non-starter in time for 2010 at the very least.

Contador's contract was apparently directly with the Kazakhs rather than Bruyneel's management company, and consequently he discovered that it would be much more difficult than perhaps originally anticipated to shed the existing year still left on his contract. Fortunately, Contador and his advisors (also often portrayed as inept through seeded media reports and social media  ) were intelligent enough to keep all options open without burning any bridges throughout these periods. Rather than waste energy with a legal challenge of the contract - which he no doubt has significant personal resources to bring to bear - he decided to focus on the riding and agreed to be part of the post-Bruyneel rebuilding of Astana, rather than tearing it all apart with a protracted legal battle.

Many questions were posed about how Contador and Astana would fare Bruyneel at the helm. While that question is far from settled, the early indications are that the concern may not have any basis. While Bruyneel is unquestionably very good at what he does, we have a few glimmers now that show us that JB's way may not be the *only* way, and that pro teams and riders can have success running a very different style of operation also. More to come in the next few months, and also at season's end when Contador's contract is officially done.


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

root said:


> Why do you say that?


do you remember when rasheed wallace 'guaranteed' they would get to the finals and win it all but got knocked out in the semis? 

actually probably not a good example because he already looked stupid

the best thing lancestrong can do is shut his mouth - he is going to get absolutely ripped apart by alberto in the alps this year


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## gamara (May 20, 2002)

The story of why the riders salaries were being withheld at Astana was due to the power struggle within the team. Astana has & always be Vino's team. There was never a shortage of funds. We're talking about the Kazakh government here. Like Saudi Arabia, Kazakhstan is a resource rich country. When Liberty Segurios folded, Vino arranged for funding from the government because one of the ministers was a former cyclist.

When Vino's suspension was completed, he stated all along that he was going back to Astana. No ifs & or buts. Being the director of Astana, you would think that JB would have final say of who should be in the team. Not so with Vino. That is why the power struggle occurred & to show who pays the bills. Thats why JB was shown the door with a year left on his contract. 

The UCI was well aware of what was actually going on. Which is why when Astana's license came up for renewal, they upped the deposit fee by such a large margin. But of course, Astana had no problem with this since they are flush with money. Seriously, has anyone checked the price per barrel of oil lately??? Shortage of funds my ass.

As to why Contador changed his schedule, its all BS. Its all smoke screen about his form being too hot. Its all about mind games. There is a huge rivalry that was created when JB & LA claimed that Astana is a weak team which might jeopardize AC's tour chances.

Astana as a team has been riding like its got a chip on its shoulder. They've been gunning for stage wins & overalls. This accidental showdown is anything but. Astana is out to prove that they're going to dish it out big. Whether Radioshack wants to play into that or not....we'll see. Its going to be interesting & fun to watch.


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

Of course another perspective to take into account is that wages were being paid through Bruyneel's Olympus company. Horner claimed he was paid without problem throughout the Giro protest. As you point out, gamara, the Kazakhs aren't exactly poor. But let's not forget that Bruyneel was making a desperate licence grab attempt throughout this - as soon as Armstrong came back he and the Hog were always going to want to be in control - what better way than to engineer a financial crisis and insist that the UCI transfer the licence? A lot easier than having to schmooze a new sponsor.

Does AC really need to play mind games? Seems to me that, like all the great champions, he lets his legs rather than his mouth do the talking. The only people showing signs of weakness and intimidation in all of this are Bruyneel & Armstrong who have created this spurious rivalry. Contador will never face a bigger test than he did at the TdF 2009 - they couldn't break him then so it's highly unlikely they'll do so now. The interesting thing about ACs new racing schedule is that he's now racing fewer days, not more - he felt his form was not great at P-N, hence the decision not to do 2 tough stage races. Plus he now benefits from the advice of Martinelli and Sanquier whose worldview is not limited to 'the only race that matters'


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

bigmig19 said:


> A lot off topic, but whatever happened to the whole end of season talk last year about astana? Werent they dead meat by most people's assesment? Remember they didnt even pay salaries for awhile. And wasnt Contador going to "definitely " go to another team...possibly some new spanish team? Am I imagining all this?


Nope-- Vino.


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## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

gamara said:


> Astana as a team has been riding like its got a chip on its shoulder. They've been gunning for stage wins & overalls. This accidental showdown is anything but. Astana is out to prove that they're going to dish it out big. Whether Radioshack wants to play into that or not....we'll see. Its going to be interesting & fun to watch.



Or like Team Sky. I don't think you can say they have a chip on there shoulder. They want to win. All the teams want to win. Some are just more aggressive. JB tends to run a less aggressive team. He likes to phocas on one rider rather then have the team be aggressive and go for stage wins. I think its just a different way of racing.


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## gamara (May 20, 2002)

Bianchigirl said:


> Of course another perspective to take into account is that wages were being paid through Bruyneel's Olympus company. Horner claimed he was paid without problem throughout the Giro protest. As you point out, gamara, the Kazakhs aren't exactly poor. But let's not forget that Bruyneel was making a desperate licence grab attempt throughout this - as soon as Armstrong came back he and the Hog were always going to want to be in control - what better way than to engineer a financial crisis and insist that the UCI transfer the licence? A lot easier than having to schmooze a new sponsor.
> 
> Does AC really need to play mind games? Seems to me that, like all the great champions, he lets his legs rather than his mouth do the talking. The only people showing signs of weakness and intimidation in all of this are Bruyneel & Armstrong who have created this spurious rivalry. Contador will never face a bigger test than he did at the TdF 2009 - they couldn't break him then so it's highly unlikely they'll do so now. The interesting thing about ACs new racing schedule is that he's now racing fewer days, not more - he felt his form was not great at P-N, hence the decision not to do 2 tough stage races. Plus he now benefits from the advice of Martinelli and Sanquier whose worldview is not limited to 'the only race that matters'


All good points. I agree that AC is the type of rider that lets his legs do the talking. But a person can only take so much pressure before they reach the breaking point & every person has a breaking point. For AC, that was last year after he won the tour. It was a very public & open tirade against LA & JB. 

It was an open war of words that LA & JB kept adding fuel to. This war of words is not necessarily a bad thing. In fact it adds to the build up to the big showdown. Which is why I believe that AC is changing his schedule so to coincide with LA's. He wants to give them a taste of what they are going to see in July. He wants to make them eat their words. Like I said before, its going to be fun to watch depending on how Radioshack is going to handle it.

Cycling has a long history of rivalries, revenge & payback. LA is a master of it. Recall the Simeoni lawsuit against LA. It was all brought about in LA's last tour victory. Simeoni was in a breakaway & LA in the yellow jersey decides to chase down the break. The break was doomed with LA in it. LA would only agree to drop out of the break only if Simeoni would drop back as well. LA wanted to make sure that Simeoni would never win in a race that he was racing in. Well the peloton has a new king now & its AC. Let the battle begin.


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## mendo (Apr 18, 2007)

alexb618 said:


> do you remember when rasheed wallace 'guaranteed' they would get to the finals and win it all but got knocked out in the semis?
> 
> actually probably not a good example because he already looked stupid
> 
> the best thing lancestrong can do is shut his mouth - he is going to get absolutely ripped apart by alberto in the alps this year


Weird. I've liked how Armstrong's come off in interviews during the last year or so.

Yes, 38 year old Lance can't climb with 27 (is that right?) year old Alberto. Then again neither can anyone else.


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## mendo (Apr 18, 2007)

jcr7u said:


> I am most intrigued by the fact that Astana is not fielding a team for Paris-Roubaix. If Contador is going for other Classics races, why not Roubaix? I would think that he would excel on the climbs there. Even if he can't, they don't have any other contenders? I thought Astana was one of "the" teams out there.
> 
> Full disclosure: I am still developing my knowledge of pro cycling, so go easy on me.


He's not well suited for this race. He weigh's about a buck thirty-five, which makes it harder to roll over cobble stones without losing momentum. Also, there are a lot of crashes in this race, and like others have said, fewer climbs.

The Tour will have some cobbled sections in the first few stages. People say getting through that part of the race without losing time will be a key for Contador this year.


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## mendo (Apr 18, 2007)

bigmig19 said:


> A lot off topic, but whatever happened to the whole end of season talk last year about astana? Werent they dead meat by most people's assesment? Remember they didnt even pay salaries for awhile. And wasnt Contador going to "definitely " go to another team...possibly some new spanish team? Am I imagining all this?


One factor is that few teams/backers can afford to pay a decent salary for a four time grand tour winner. Astana ended up paying a boatload of money to keep the tour champ on their roster.


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## rubbersoul (Mar 1, 2010)

If Armtrong actually races the CI, Contador will smoke him. Just a hunch
________
Ecigs123


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## Bry03cobra (Oct 31, 2006)

Contador should be more worried about Andy than Lance. Lance is nowhere near form yet. Looks like he packed on the weight(muscle?). Will prob cut weight in the weeks leading up to the TDF. Wouldn't be surprised if Lance gets dropped by AC on purpose, to play a little mindf&$k with Bert. AC goes into the TDF overconfident an makes a mistake somewhere. JB and Lance will try to play the game perfectly, but come on Lance your 38. AC will F up somewhere due to the mind games. Lance will have a decent TDF. But Andy will win.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Bry03cobra said:


> Contador should be more worried about Andy than Lance. Lance is nowhere near form yet. Looks like he packed on the weight(muscle?). Will prob cut weight in the weeks leading up to the TDF. Wouldn't be surprised if Lance gets dropped by AC on purpose, to play a little mindf&$k with Bert. AC goes into the TDF overconfident an makes a mistake somewhere. JB and Lance will try to play the game perfectly, but come on Lance your 38. AC will F up somewhere due to the mind games. Lance will have a decent TDF. But Andy will win.


why exactly would LA's BS affect Contador more this year than last year?
As for Andy, well his knee should not get much worse than now. His spring schedule is already being re-done because of it.


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## orangeclymer (Aug 18, 2009)

rubbersoul said:


> If Armtrong actually races the CI, Contador will smoke him. Just a hunch


Riiiiiiiight


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

Bry03cobra said:


> Will prob cut weight in the weeks leading up to the TDF. Wouldn't be surprised if Lance gets dropped by AC on purpose, to play a little mindf&$k with Bert. AC goes into the TDF overconfident an makes a mistake somewhere.


... because that worked so well for LA last year... oh, wait... it didn't.


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

Far better for Armstrong to avoid a humiliating defeat here and preserve the myth of a supposedly credible rivalry until July.

Bry03 best laugh I've had in ages


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## Bry03cobra (Oct 31, 2006)

What was so funny about it? I don't think LA can beat him. I think he will try to force AC to make a mistake, which he does do. He usually is strong enough to overcome those mistakes. Didn't he f up and lose PN last year? As far as AC goes, he is so concerned with beating lance, that he may make a tatical error and let A.schleck get away. Andy is the only one who can climb with him. if his TT is improved, probably only guy with a chance to beat AC.


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

I was tickled by the notion that what motivates Contador is beating Armstrong when it's quoite clear that he considers Schleck a truly credible rival. I can't see any scenario where AC would take his eye off the rider he has repeatedly cited as his main competitor. 

Think you'll find it's LA who has the obsession with beating AC rather than the other way round.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Bry03cobra said:


> What was so funny about it?.


the notion that the tour de france still revolves around LA.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Bianchigirl said:


> I was tickled by the notion that what motivates Contador is beating Armstrong when it's quoite clear that he considers Schleck a truly credible rival.


Andy definitely is his biggest rival on the climbs, but needs to improve his TTing to the extent that AC did to be a credible threat. Andy's team and DS are much better, but given the somewhat lackluster course this year I don't think those will matter much. Illness, injury and crashes seem to be AC's only real rivals this year- I think this is going to be like 2001. 

Until the younger generation of GC threats emerge, a healthy AC will always be the favorite for the top step in a GT.


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## adimiro (Jun 28, 2007)

den bakker said:


> the notion that the tour de france still revolves around LA.



It does still revolve around LA, except now it's spinning on another axis  ...ahh, if LA could have just stayed retired and retained his demi-god mystique.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

Bianchigirl said:


> Think you'll find it's LA who has the obsession with beating AC rather than the other way round.


winner winner chicken dinner.

before retirement, LA liked to play an underdog card in the press, but at the same time speak highly of his competition. it had an air of the "gentlemens sport." but watching interviews now, he seems pissed of at AC. he has made it incredibly personal, like AC created cancer or something. he seems bitter and princess-y. while you may root for him because he is coming out of retirement (or exile), his interviews make it tough to not root against him.


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## Bry03cobra (Oct 31, 2006)

Bianchigirl said:


> I was tickled by the notion that what motivates Contador is beating Armstrong when it's quoite clear that he considers Schleck a truly credible rival. I can't see any scenario where AC would take his eye off the rider he has repeatedly cited as his main competitor.
> 
> Think you'll find it's LA who has the obsession with beating AC rather than the other way round.


good point....but Lance didn't change his race schedule, Alberto did.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Bry03cobra said:


> good point....but Lance didn't change his race schedule, Alberto did.


and that was because Lance was there or because the race is shorter and Contador seems to be in plenty of form already?


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Bry03cobra said:


> good point....but Lance didn't change his race schedule, Alberto did.


Don't ruin this with facts!


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

Just a point - AC never had to 'improve his TTing' he was always a decent TTer, in fact one who improved his climbing (his first ever pro victory was a TT at the Tour of Poland)


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

Which all works except for the fact that Armstrong had already pulled out of Catalunya to avoid having to face Contador.


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

wrong thread


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

Coolhand said:


> Don't ruin this with facts!


Fact is, Armstrong was originally scheduled to ride in Catalunya but pulled out. In order not to have to face Contador one assumes.


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## gegarrenton (Jul 10, 2009)

Bianchigirl said:


> Fact is, Armstrong was originally scheduled to ride in Catalunya but pulled out. In order not to have to face Contador one assumes.


No, just the irrational assumes.


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## The Weasel (Jul 20, 2006)

Circlip said:


> Fortunately, Contador and his advisors (also often portrayed as inept through seeded media reports and social media  ) were intelligent enough to keep all options open without burning any bridges throughout these periods. Rather than waste energy with a legal challenge of the contract - which he no doubt has significant personal resources to bring to bear - he decided to focus on the riding and agreed to be part of the post-Bruyneel rebuilding of Astana, rather than tearing it all apart with a protracted legal battle.


Ah yes, Contador the Nobleman! It had nothing to do with the boat load of money Astana paid him to sign.


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## adimiro (Jun 28, 2007)

The Weasel said:


> Ah yes, Contador the Nobleman! It had nothing to do with the boat load of money Astana paid him to sign.



Hard to criticize Contador for wanting to keep the money he's worth instead of making a legal team much richer...besides, a post-Bruyneel Contador-lead Astana revenge would taste so sweet.


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## SlowMo (Apr 18, 2006)

*why all the hate for either?*

1/2 of you hate LA, 1/2 hate AC. 

I realize the TdF has been a big deal for alot of followers pre LA days, but he hands down made this race more famous for us in the US. I'm aware of the LeMond days too, but that doesn't compare to what LA brought to the table across the board. 

I don't think LA is scared to race anybody. What would he have to prove to go to mountain bike races in Texas, a crit in California or to Leadville? Best case scenario is he wins (so you consider him a sandbagger), worst case he loses - then you all would be broadcasting to the universe how he can't even beat local pro's (who are pretty salty riders, btw). It's a double edged sword for some of you. 

I don't think he's the Lance of 99, but you're fooling yourself if you don't think he's a factor in any race. You don't take a 3 year break from pro racing and finish 3rd in the TdF, especially riding on a team that the overall winner is on. That's simply ridiculous. 

AC (whom I'm no fan of by any means) is simply fun to watch. He's proven he's a great climber, TTer, blah, blah, blah. The fact is it's fun that there's a feud between the two, regardless if one of them downplays it. 

I personally think both have had their glory - hence I'm rooting for Cadel this year, I mean Andy Schleck, or do I want Vino to get into the tour and start his usual attacks on every climb???????


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## Patti (May 20, 2008)

SlowMo said:


> 1/2 of you hate LA, 1/2 hate AC.
> 
> I realize the TdF has been a big deal for alot of followers pre LA days, but he hands down made this race more famous for us in the US. I'm aware of the LeMond days too, but that doesn't compare to what LA brought to the table across the board.
> 
> ...


Good post, SlowMo! :thumbsup: I'm looking forward to the fireworks!

Patti


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

Hey, here's a novel thought....What if Ole Lance actually outclimbs Contador? Lance is still a very good climber and maybe this season he will be a bit stronger than last season after his early season "Training-interuptis" incident with his first broken bone....

Would that shock the "Pundits"? Remember, health care was totally dead....until it passed easily....Maybe it is not such a 'done deal' that Contador is by far the best ever climber or whatever..

Odds are long, but odds have been wrong often in the past..


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## mendo (Apr 18, 2007)

Gnarly 928 said:


> Hey, here's a novel thought....What if Ole Lance actually outclimbs Contador? Lance is still a very good climber and maybe this season he will be a bit stronger than last season after his early season "Training-interuptis" incident with his first broken bone....
> 
> Would that shock the "Pundits"? Remember, health care was totally dead....until it passed easily....Maybe it is not such a 'done deal' that Contador is by far the best ever climber or whatever..
> 
> Odds are long, but odds have been wrong often in the past..



Surprises are welcome. It would be pretty great/exciting if anyone could challenge AC in the mountains. But he's shown himself to be heads and shoulders above everyone.


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## orangeclymer (Aug 18, 2009)

mendo said:


> Surprises are welcome. It would be pretty great/exciting if anyone could challenge AC in the mountains. But he's shown himself to be heads and shoulders above everyone.


Lemme know when your next comedy act airs cuz you one way funny guy...........NOT!!


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

orangeclymer said:


> Lemme know when your next comedy act airs cuz you one way funny guy...........NOT!!


True, definitely not as funny as this line:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=2686512&postcount=42

Care to eat some crow on that one???


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## BassNBrew (Aug 4, 2008)

gamara said:


> The story of why the riders salaries were being withheld at Astana was due to the power struggle within the team. Astana has & always be Vino's team. There was never a shortage of funds. We're talking about the Kazakh government here. Like Saudi Arabia, Kazakhstan is a resource rich country. When Liberty Segurios folded, Vino arranged for funding from the government because one of the ministers was a former cyclist.
> 
> When Vino's suspension was completed, he stated all along that he was going back to Astana. No ifs & or buts. Being the director of Astana, you would think that JB would have final say of who should be in the team. Not so with Vino. That is why the power struggle occurred & to show who pays the bills. Thats why JB was shown the door with a year left on his contract.
> 
> ...


Well The Shack got the best of this battle.


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## CARBON110 (Apr 17, 2002)

lol

haha Silas


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

I'd say 5+ minutes - and 2+" a km in the TT - was a distinct advantage, wouldn't you? Wonder how much bigger it will be come July when Contador's _really_ on form :wink:

After all, you don't think AC was at CI with that as his major objective of the season do you?


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## BassNBrew (Aug 4, 2008)

Bianchigirl said:


> I'd say 5+ minutes - and 2+" a km in the TT - was a distinct advantage, wouldn't you? Wonder how much bigger it will be come July when Contador's _really_ on form :wink:
> 
> After all, you don't think AC was at CI with that as his major objective of the season do you?


Given that he was going for sprint bonus points in stage one, yeah, I'd say it was a major objective. One that he sucked major tail pipe. Hate to think how much time Contador drops to Fedrigo when Fedrigo comes into form in July.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

Lance has gotten inside everybody's head and his plan is working to perfection.


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)




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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

What, as big as the Tour? Don't be daft.

However, were Fedrigo to pull off the TdF win, I for one would be absolutely delighted - however, won't hold my breath 

I'm really interested in fans of a sport who thinks it's more admirable to turn up overweight and out of shape to 'train' rather than turning up to actually race. I think it's even funnier to assume that this was a big objective of the season for Contador when he decided to race it only a few weeks ago and even funnier that he was quite happy to sit up once his real objective was achieved - assessing Armstrong's form and dropping him like a bad smell. Remember, _Contador was Armstrong's teammate last season_ - he'll know exactly what the man is capable of and what improvement he's liable to make (and vice versa). This is a hugely important point that everyone seems to conveniently forget.


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## BuenosAires (Apr 3, 2004)

Bianchigirl said:


> What, as big as the Tour? Don't be daft.
> 
> However, were Fedrigo to pull off the TdF win, I for one would be absolutely delighted - however, won't hold my breath
> 
> I'm really interested in fans of a sport who thinks it's more admirable to turn up overweight and out of shape to 'train' rather than turning up to actually race. I think it's even funnier to assume that this was a big objective of the season for Contador when he decided to race it only a few weeks ago and even funnier that he was quite happy to sit up once his real objective was achieved - assessing Armstrong's form and dropping him like a bad smell. Remember, _Contador was Armstrong's teammate last season_ - he'll know exactly what the man is capable of and what improvement he's liable to make (and vice versa). This is a hugely important point that everyone seems to conveniently forget.


All of your posts are starting to look the same........just sayin'.


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## SlowMo (Apr 18, 2006)

_What, as big as the Tour? Don't be daft.

However, were Fedrigo to pull off the TdF win, I for one would be absolutely delighted - however, won't hold my breath 

I'm really interested in fans of a sport who thinks it's more admirable to turn up overweight and out of shape to 'train' rather than turning up to actually race. I think it's even funnier to assume that this was a big objective of the season for Contador when he decided to race it only a few weeks ago and even funnier that he was quite happy to sit up once his real objective was achieved - assessing Armstrong's form and dropping him like a bad smell. Remember, Contador was Armstrong's teammate last season - he'll know exactly what the man is capable of and what improvement he's liable to make (and vice versa). This is a hugely important point that everyone seems to conveniently forget._



BuenosAires said:


> All of your posts are starting to look the same........just sayin'.


I have to agree with this. If I remember correctly, AC was not going to this race nor concerned with LA, the race just simply fit better with what he needed to do prep wise. 

How much time did AC spend "training" with Lance last year anyway? Did they do any at all, or simply do a couple (if any) races together prior to the TdF? 

I think you should consider changing your name and begin it with 'ALBERTO' _(I'm really just kidding, so don't consider this a personal attack please)_


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

this thread is hilarious.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

weltyed said:


> this thread is hilarious.


I know- and its not even July yet!

Can you imagine. . .


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## BassNBrew (Aug 4, 2008)

Bianchigirl said:


> What, as big as the Tour? Don't be daft.
> 
> However, were Fedrigo to pull off the TdF win, I for one would be absolutely delighted - however, won't hold my breath
> 
> I'm really interested in fans of a sport who thinks it's more admirable to turn up overweight and out of shape to 'train' rather than turning up to actually race. I think it's even funnier to assume that this was a big objective of the season for Contador when he decided to race it only a few weeks ago and even funnier that he was quite happy to sit up once his real objective was achieved - assessing Armstrong's form and dropping him like a bad smell. Remember, _Contador was Armstrong's teammate last season_ - he'll know exactly what the man is capable of and what improvement he's liable to make (and vice versa). This is a hugely important point that everyone seems to conveniently forget.


If Contador even has half a brain, he's not the least bit concerned about Armstrong's form in March. Even if assessing someone's form in march was critical to winning in July 9, he would be better off focusing on his bigger threats. 

You make some good posts around here but when you make statements that are so blantantly and obviously wrong like saying Contador sat up after dropping Armstrong, you just make yourself look foolish.


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

Did you watch the coverage? Only asking because it was quite clear on France 2 that Astana dropped right off the pace at 3kms to go when Armstrong went out the back.

I agree his main competition in July will not come from Armstrong, who he effectively disposed of at CI but Evans hardly looked super, Schleck has a knee injury and is showing no signs of great recovery, Menchov is practically invisible as is Wiggins (another self proclaimed contender rather than a real one) so just when and how should he be keeping his eye on them? Except by reading the papers?

Stephen Roche says it best http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/3611/Stephen-Roche-Insight-Armstrong-vs-Contador-no-contest.aspx Contest? No contest? Just a nice way of selling papers and TV subscriptions to fanboys


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## BassNBrew (Aug 4, 2008)

Bianchigirl said:


> Did you watch the coverage? Only asking because it was quite clear on France 2 that Astana dropped right off the pace at 3kms to go when Armstrong went out the back.
> 
> I agree his main competition in July will not come from Armstrong, who he effectively disposed of at CI but Evans hardly looked super, Schleck has a knee injury and is showing no signs of great recovery, Menchov is practically invisible as is Wiggins (another self proclaimed contender rather than a real one) so just when and how should he be keeping his eye on them? Except by reading the papers?
> 
> Stephen Roche says it best http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/3611/Stephen-Roche-Insight-Armstrong-vs-Contador-no-contest.aspx Contest? No contest? Just a nice way of selling papers and TV subscriptions to fanboys


Yup. Playing it again right now.

5k to go, Lance falls off the back. Contador in 3rd place of the lead group. Vino 1st, Hermans 2nd. (technically one guy in front about to be caught).

4k to go. Vino putting the hammer down. Herman staying on the wheel. Conti puffing and blowing torying to hold that wheel.

3 to go. No change in the top three of the lead group.

Bad timed commercial break. Miss the catch.

2.5 to go. Mon and herman go and get a gap. Conti falls back to 7th to 10th. You can see him standing and stomping to hang on in the distance.

2k to go. Conti is dropped from the lead group.

Just prior to 1k to go you can see an Astana jersey in the second group just in front of the official's car.

Conti was there to win, it just wasn't his day. He finished 1:13 back with no Astana riders placed higher. Vino finished 1:53 back. If Astana had pulled the plug, Conti would have hung with Vino.

Evans rode like a wuss.

Lance's comment in the post race interivew..."Sometimes your the hammer, other times your the nail...today I was the nail."


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

i didnt realise that was vino on the front, he is looking strong


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## BuenosAires (Apr 3, 2004)

Hopefully, Contador wont' be suffering from those terrible "allergies" in July.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contador-and-armstrong-fire-blanks-in-criterium-international


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

That really was a badly timed break - as I agree with everything else in your post, please don't take this as any question of your recollection but am I right in assuming that you didn't see the tight bend as they came through the village? Where Vino dropped back to speak to Contador and several other teams swarmed to front of the peloton and Astana let them go? Half a km at that point in the race was a lot to lose - shame on Vs? ES? France 2 coverage was uninterrupted, glad to say. It's worth trying to get hold of that missing 500m if you can.

The point is, basically, that there's more than one way to spin a result and that Armstrong is quite right - he was nailed, right royally :wink:


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## BassNBrew (Aug 4, 2008)

Bianchigirl said:


> That really was a badly timed break - as I agree with everything else in your post, please don't take this as any question of your recollection but am I right in assuming that you didn't see the tight bend as they came through the village? Where Vino dropped back to speak to Contador and several other teams swarmed to front of the peloton and Astana let them go? Half a km at that point in the race was a lot to lose - shame on Vs? ES? France 2 coverage was uninterrupted, glad to say. It's worth trying to get hold of that missing 500m if you can.
> 
> The point is, basically, that there's more than one way to spin a result and that Armstrong is quite right - he was nailed, right royally :wink:


You are right. Pretty brutal given that it was taped delayed. That said, I'm not going to gripe because they are bringing us the most of the big events including the non-Armstrong events.

If you have a link to the coverage I would be glad to watch the gap I missed. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

1. You're link to the article supports my case that Conti was there to win.
2. Conti went for time bonuses which would indicate he was trying to win.
3. Conti didn't drop off until well after lance was cooked. He was still in sight of the lead group with a kilo to go. I can't imagine him calling it a day with a kilo to go when victory was within reach.
4. The eye test showed Conti was suffering, something I haven't seen on a climb before.
5. Conti finished well in front of Vino. Even if you manage to convince me that Conti is about gamesmanship over victories, you'll never convince me that is the case with Vino.


Even if you're right about Conti quitting on purpose and I'm wrong, then Conti was very foolish to do this as it left the impression that he has cracks. He gave several people hope that he is beatable. Prior to this event I read several quotes that indicated the tour result was already locked up. Conti's results backed this up. With he lack of TTing in the upcoming tour, Astana will have to be extra diligent in the peloton. I wonder if Conti will spot someone the lead in the opening stage so they don't have to defend the entire way?


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

Remember last year when AC "blew up"-"bonked" in Paris Nice? Lots of talk (wishful thinking more like) about him being vulnerable then as well. 
He didn't bother trying to win this stage - that's all. 
Maybe he was tired, bluffing or had toothache ... whatever....come July he'll be the man to beat whether Astana are strong or not.
Barring accidents, his only credible rivals this year will be Valverde (Caisse are the strongest all round outfit) and, just possibly, Evans. The rest haven't a snowball's ........................


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

IMHO - I think Conti wanted to win this race - I also think he wanted to hammer Lance while doing it. I think Conti cracked a bit - not sure if "allergies" were involved.
I agree with other posters that while Lance may be a threat come July - Alberto needs to mark Andy most and everyone else in desending order with Lance somewhere inthe top-ten threats. Andy's continuing knee issues are a concern - he is the primary threat come July - if Andy is not 100%, I still think AC runs away with the TdF. If Andy is in form, AC still wins, Andy gets second and the fight is for third place on the podium...Cadel?

God I love this stuff!


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

Barring accident or severe misfortune, Contador will not lose to Lance in July, regardless of how strong LA is.


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## worst_shot_ever (Jul 27, 2009)

iliveonnitro said:


> Barring accident or severe misfortune, Contador will not lose to Lance in July, regardless of how strong LA is.


I am a fan of LA, and I entirely agree with your proposition.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

iliveonnitro said:


> Barring accident or severe misfortune, Contador will not lose to Lance in July, regardless of how strong LA is.


Armstrong was lucky to podium last year and will have to be even luckier this year to podium.


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## gegarrenton (Jul 10, 2009)

pretender said:


> Armstrong was lucky to podium last year and will have to be even luckier this year to podium.


I don't think there is any question the AC is the man, and AS will be in hot pursuit, saying LA was "lucky" to podium is bordering on ridiculous.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

gegarrenton said:


> I don't think there is any question the AC is the man, and AS will be in hot pursuit, saying LA was "lucky" to podium is bordering on ridiculous.


He was 3rd by 37 seconds over Wiggins and 40 seconds over Frank Schleck.

He was lucky to get the benefit of being on Astana for the TTT. (18 seconds on Garmin and 40 seconds on Saxo Bank.)

And he was lucky to be in the right side of the break on stage 3. (41 seconds on both Wiggins and Schleck.) Remember, he didn't create the break, just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

So, he was lucky to be on the podium.


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## orangeclymer (Aug 18, 2009)

pretender said:


> He was 3rd by 37 seconds over Wiggins and 40 seconds over Frank Schleck.
> 
> He was lucky to get the benefit of being on Astana for the TTT. (18 seconds on Garmin and 40 seconds on Saxo Bank.)
> 
> ...


Yea he's just lucky like that.............NOT!!!!!!!! it becomes increasingly assenine reading/seeing comments such as this, is stupidity just rampant about LA due to his dominance for so many yrs?? and now past his prime can still bring it with those earmarked the best.
Yea he's just lucky that way........


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

orangeclymer said:


> Yea he's just lucky like that.............NOT!!!!!!!! it becomes increasingly assenine reading/seeing comments such as this, is stupidity just rampant about LA due to his dominance for so many yrs?? and now past his prime can still bring it with those earmarked the best.
> Yea he's just lucky that way........


The Wayne's World Not is almost twenty years old. 

I did not say that Armstrong is not a strong cyclist, but that he was lucky to get on the 2009 TdF podium, because he very easily could not have been there for the reasons I have already stated.


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## theswordsman (Mar 30, 2010)

Hi All. Contador was trying to win Stage 1 - that's why he sprinted twice for bonus seconds. He does have allergies, and he mentioned to the press before the stag hat things were in bloom and could be a problem. Vino was working hard at the front. With 3 Km to go, Contador's allergies kicked in big time and he told Vino to stop working as he couldn't attack. He lost 45 seconds to Menchov in a stage of the Giro d'Italia in almost identical fashion, and for the same reason, in 2008. One of Contador's symptoms is that his legs retain fluid. Here's an article with more about his symptoms over the weekend.
http://www.elcorreo.com/vizcaya/v/2...eporte/contador-vuelve-respirar-20100329.html
The allergy is a real thing. In an interview at AstanaFans.com earlier in the year, it was said the main culprit was European poplar. He's mentioned it in interviews during other races, including some, like that Giro, that he won (after a last minute invitation, and with an elbow he broke in a crash along the way.) Team Radio Shack seemed to take great pleasure in the "failure" Saturday, but in two weeks at Castilla y Leon Contador should show that his form is even better than at the two races he already won this year. Cheers.


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## SlowMo (Apr 18, 2006)

pretender said:


> The Wayne's World Not is almost twenty years old.
> 
> I did not say that Armstrong is not a strong cyclist, but that he was lucky to get on the 2009 TdF podium, because he very easily could not have been there for the reasons I have already stated.


I respect what you've stated Pretender, but let me ask this. If LA was the sole leader of a team last year (equivalent to Astana), do you think he'd have made the podium? My thoughts are, AC "somewhat" held him back in a couple of situations when he (AC) decided to attack. I don't think LA would have beat him, but do think he'd have still placed on the podium.

BTW: Who doesn't like Wayne's World Not's?


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## Jimbolaya (Jun 2, 2008)

pretender said:


> Armstrong was lucky to podium last year and will have to be even luckier this year to podium.


+1, one year older, not as much psyche advantage this year. he might not finish in the top 5 this year. Out of the top 10 next year.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

SlowMo said:


> I respect what you've stated Pretender, but let me ask this. If LA was the sole leader of a team last year (equivalent to Astana), do you think he'd have made the podium? My thoughts are, AC "somewhat" held him back in a couple of situations when he (AC) decided to attack. I don't think LA would have beat him, but do think he'd have still placed on the podium.


Being on Contador's team helped Armstrong more than it hurt him, IMO of course.


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## harlond (May 30, 2005)

pretender said:


> He was 3rd by 37 seconds over Wiggins and 40 seconds over Frank Schleck.
> 
> He was lucky to get the benefit of being on Astana for the TTT. (18 seconds on Garmin and 40 seconds on Saxo Bank.)
> 
> ...


I'm not sure it's accurate to say LA was lucky to be in the right place on stage 3 or just happened to be in the right place. He has a very long history of staying up front, and by his own account, he moved further up when he was informed the road was turning ahead. That said, nobody gets on the podium without at least avoiding bad luck.


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## jupiterrn (Sep 22, 2006)

theswordsman said:


> Cheers.


Pistilero is that you?


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

No one makes the podium of the TdF through luck. 
LA's ride last year was impressive. A former winner making a fantastic comeback while on the edge of middle-age was fantastic. 
His behaviour, however, was pathetic.


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

harlond said:


> I'm not sure it's accurate to say LA was lucky to be in the right place on stage 3 or just happened to be in the right place. He has a very long history of staying up front, and by his own account, he moved further up when he was informed the road was turning ahead. That said, nobody gets on the podium without at least avoiding bad luck.


he was up front because hincape told him they were going to unleash in the crosswind

anyone who actually watched the whole stage would have seen this


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

albert owen said:


> No one makes the podium of the TdF through luck.
> LA's ride last year was impressive. A former winner making a fantastic comeback while on the edge of middle-age was fantastic.
> His behaviour, however, was pathetic.


I think the original point is that he was "lucky" that he came in 3rd as opposed to coming in 4th or 5th. I think you can make that case.

Not sure I'd agree, it's hard to add up a couple time splits and rewrite results. Stage races don't work like that, IMO.


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## Caroline13 (Mar 31, 2010)

jupiterrn said:


> Pistilero is that you?


No Swordsman is a guy on the CN forum who posts incessantly about Contador.


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## diarrheaawareness (Mar 31, 2010)

hi folks!
obviously LA is toying with Alberto. Why would he else give up 5 mins? Nice one. They must be laughing at the RS hq, CI really showed that AC still has a lot to learn falling for the old "so you think I cant climb trick". Oldest in the book. lol


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Caroline13 said:


> No Swordsman is a guy on the CN forum who posts incessantly about Contador.


That role has been already filled here.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Interesting bit about Conti's allergy - VS commentators (traditionally Lance boosters) said that when AC complained of allergies at the CI, that was "a new one" on them - perhaps they should have done their homework.


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## Tater Salad (Mar 31, 2010)

LostViking said:


> Interesting bit about Conti's allergy - VS commentators (traditionally Lance boosters) said that when AC complained of allergies at the CI, that was "a new one" on them - perhaps they should have done their homework.


VS commentators are there for the sole reason of promoting Armstrong. There is no longer even a pretense of impartiality. Armstrong is what gets the race televised, what gets them the gig, what sells magazines for Phil. They are simply an extension of the Armstrong PR apparatus. They're not interested in doing much but applying the Armstrong talking points of the day (Contador has no team/wasn't a good teammate/didn't thank his team).


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## The Weasel (Jul 20, 2006)

pretender said:


> He was 3rd by 37 seconds over Wiggins and 40 seconds over Frank Schleck.
> 
> He was lucky to get the benefit of being on Astana for the TTT. (18 seconds on Garmin and 40 seconds on Saxo Bank.)


And yet Garmin is supposed to be one of (if not) the best at TTT, which they stated they were going for. And Frank was on the same team as Andy, who finished ahead of Armstrong. 
Both riders had three whole weeks to beat LA, and yet they couldn't.


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