# 2012 Roubaix- warranty job?



## goldenstaph (Jul 28, 2011)

The frame near one of the rear dropouts on my beloved 2012 Roubaix seems to be rusting under the paintwork- see the bubbles in the attached photos. 

As I am the original owner, would this be covered under Specialized's warranty? If so, I doubt that I would receive a new version of the frame I have, so any ideas how Specialized would address this?

Thanks in advance for the insight.


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

I can't be rust because that's not a steel frame.

So I'll presume that's an aluminum frame. Salted water i.e., sweat or road spray, will penetrate small cracks in the paint. The aluminum will bubble on the surface but it won't structually damage or compromise the frame.

I doubt Specialized will warranty it; their view will be you failed to take care of the frame properly. And that's true; after those sweaty or salt-influenced rides, you HAVE to wipe the frame down with plain water. Trust me; as a long time steel frame owner, I've learned a lot.


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## rcb78 (Jun 15, 2008)

I'd take it in to the shop where you purchased the bike and ask them. The frame is carbon, but the dropout is Al. My completely arbitrary (based on internet pictures) guess is that the joint is corroding between the two and failing. As long as your the original owner with proof of purchase, it never hurts to ask.
Even if they say it's paint failure and the warranty for paint was only one year, they are usually pretty good with offering 'crash replacements' where you can get a new frame at a steep discount if you turn in the damaged one.


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## 1Butcher (Mar 15, 2011)

I would agree with rcb78 assessment and have it looked at. If he's right, I would believe that joint is severely compromised and would deem it unsafe to ride. 

I would be looking for a new bike frame, either paid by you or Specialized.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

goldenstaph said:


> ... any ideas how Specialized would address this?


First off, do NOT ride that bike. 

IMO, in order of likelihood... 
1. They'll offer a crash replacement
2. They'll offer nothing
3. They'll warranty it

But the place to start is a Spec dealer.


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## 1Butcher (Mar 15, 2011)

Or they take it on trade and sell you a new bike 

There is lots of good word about the new Roubaix.


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## goldenstaph (Jul 28, 2011)

Thanks all - it's not really what I wanted to hear but I suspected that might be the case. I'm off to see what the dealer says


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

When did an aluminum Roubaix come out? I must of missed that model.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

11spd said:


> When did an aluminum Roubaix come out? I must of missed that model.


I'm with you...


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

11spd said:


> When did an aluminum Roubaix come out? I must of missed that model.


I thought a couple years ago Specialized came out with their Smart Wall technology which was hydroformed aluminum. I could be wrong. I just assumed they were (still?) offering it.

Good call about the aluminum dropout bonded to the carbon. Yes, carbon will react with aluminum so there has to be an insulator between the two materials such as Kevlar fabric sleeving. Direct contact between the two could cause the result seen in the photos. I'd be curious to see if Specialized warranties that.


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## rcb78 (Jun 15, 2008)

There were E5 Roubaix frames back in the early life of the model. The one in the picture clearly is not though, the dropout design is a dead giveaway. That said, the dropouts are Al moulded into the carbon tubing. I don't know how extensive the joint is though which is why he should get it looked at by a dealer.


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## goldenstaph (Jul 28, 2011)

Quick update if anyone is interested, my LBS has taken photos and a copy of the original receipt to send off to the Specialized rep on Monday. Stay tuned...

Peter P, it is a full carbon frame with alloy dropouts. I probably should have used "corroded" rather than "rust" in the initial post, sorry for the confusion


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

A curious thread. Can you tell us the history of the bike? Do you live near the ocean?
Most of us have never seen that level of corrosion on a Specialized Al bike.

Lastly, I wonder where you get the Roubaix name from? The bike you show is not a Specialized Roubaix FWIW. Perhaps the bike is an Al Roubaix from another brand.

If you insist the bike is a Specialized Roubaix, please post pictures showing the rest of the frameset to prove this. Only other wildcard if it is a Roubaix is...it maybe a very early example when the bike was created well over a decade ago.


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## 1Butcher (Mar 15, 2011)

Just curious, with a bold statement that it's not a Specialized Roubaix, what makes you think that with the pictures provided.

Just curious, not trying to poke the bear.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

11spd said:


> A curious thread. Can you tell us the history of the bike? Do you live near the ocean?
> Most of us have never seen that level of corrosion on a Specialized Al bike.
> 
> Lastly, I wonder where you get the Roubaix name from? The bike you show is not a Specialized Roubaix FWIW. Perhaps the bike is an Al Roubaix from another brand.
> ...


Must be hard to live inside of your head.

I'll put some money down saying the OP is dead accurate and you're full of it.


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## goldenstaph (Jul 28, 2011)

MMsRepBike said:


> I'll put some money down saying the OP is dead accurate and you're full of it.


Thanks for the voice of confidence, I have no idea what 11spd is on about. It's a white/ carbon 2012 Expert, see https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bike-archive/2012/roubaix/roubaixsl3expertcompact/35096 

I don't live near the ocean, and here's a photo of it in full

View attachment 318609


Perhaps I'm just feeding the trolls by responding


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

Can you show us pictures of the bike?...and not just the drop out. Is that the factory paint job? Believe many here believes that's an Al bike. Perhaps it isn't. Most of us...me...have never seen a carbon bike...any bike...bubble like that.

Unless you show greater context, it isn't a stretch to incredulity to believe that isn't a carbon Roubaix. I own a 2012 carbon Roubaix SL3 Pro FWIW. I am very familiar with that bike.

Show us more pics. If the frameset is carbon and was repainted this may explain the bubbling...if the frame was contaminated when repainted. The carbon lay up may in fact be OK...or maybe not. Generally Al doesn't bubble aka rust either...more common with steel and that isn't a steel frameset because the downtube shown is too large in diameter. Show us pics of the 'bike'...as requested.


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

Some sort of Galvanic corrosion between carbon and alloy bonded components?
By the way, your cassette looks REALLY clean, were you spraying any sort of degreaser or anything onto that area of the bike that may have damaged the paint?


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## goldenstaph (Jul 28, 2011)

TmB123 said:


> By the way, your cassette looks REALLY clean, were you spraying any sort of degreaser or anything onto that area of the bike that may have damaged the paint?


No degreaser, the cassette is brand new in the photo. I've actually just replaced the entire groupset with Ultegra 6800 as one of the original 10 speed shifters broke. Hence why I'll be a bit upset if the frame is no good.

11spd, it's not been repainted or crashed. I'm not sure why you're so suspicious. If you won't take me at my word I'll just say thanks thanks for your contribution to this point and leave it at that.


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## taodemon (Mar 17, 2014)

goldenstaph said:


> Thanks for the voice of confidence, I have no idea what 11spd is on about. It's a white/ carbon 2012 Expert, see https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bike-archive/2012/roubaix/roubaixsl3expertcompact/35096
> 
> I don't live near the ocean, and here's a photo of it in full
> 
> ...


The attachment isn't working.


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

goldenstaph said:


> No degreaser, the cassette is brand new in the photo. I've actually just replaced the entire groupset with Ultegra 6800 as one of the original 10 speed shifters broke. Hence why I'll be a bit upset if the frame is no good.
> 
> 11spd, it's not been repainted or crashed. I'm not sure why you're so suspicious. If you won't take me at my word I'll just say thanks thanks for your contribution to this point and leave it at that.


Suspicion can be easily explained. For some reason you won't show a pic of the bike after asked repeatedly. But that isn't all. We are all bike enthusiasts. I have been building race bikes for four decades and an early adopter of carbon. I have ridden with hundreds of riders mostly on carbon but on Aluminum, Ti and of course steel. I have NEVER seen your issue on ANY carbon fiber bicycle...or an Al bike either. Of course steel can rust.

So that is why the suspicion. Of course there can be a first time for everything and perhaps this is such an instance and why I have requested more pictures.

Hope that makes sense.


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## taodemon (Mar 17, 2014)

11spd said:


> Suspicion can be easily explained. For some reason you won't show a pic of the bike after asked repeatedly. But that isn't all. We are all bike enthusiasts. I have been building race bikes for four decades and an early adopter of carbon. I have ridden with hundreds of riders mostly on carbon but on Aluminum, Ti and of course steel. I have NEVER seen your issue on ANY carbon fiber bicycle...or an Al bike either. Of course steel can rust.
> 
> So that is why the suspicion. Of course there can be a first time for everything and perhaps this is such an instance and why I have requested more pictures.
> 
> Hope that makes sense.


Well he attempted to post a picture but the attachments on this forum aren't completely straight forward and it isn't the first I've seen them not work when someone is attempting to post one.


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## Bad Ronald (May 18, 2009)

@11spd, it looks like galvanic corrosion to me. This is when electrons jump between the aluminum and the carbon at the bond joint causing the alloy to corrode. The corrosion is bubbling up the paint at this joint which is what you are seeing.


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## goldenstaph (Jul 28, 2011)

taodemon said:


> The attachment isn't working.


Weird, it worked for me. I'll try another


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

Thanks. Problem with the galvantic corrosion theory is...carbon fiber isn't prone to it.
But...perhaps the alloy dropout/carbon bond allows infiltration through the carbon lay up. What is curious is...that the bubbling perpetuates well up the seat stay.
Thanks again for showing the bike FWIW I have the same frame with same 10r carbon and ride it everyday with no corrosion and I live on the gulf coast with a lot of salty air and my body pours salt water from my body on the frame due to hot temps.

Hope you can get some warranty compensation from Specialized.
Good luck.
My SL3 Pro with Campy:



goldenstaph said:


> Weird, it worked for me. I'll try another
> View attachment 318630


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## 1Butcher (Mar 15, 2011)

11spd said:


> Thanks. Problem with the galvantic corrosion theory is...carbon fiber isn't prone to it.


I'm no engineer and just because Boeing is in my back yard does not make me a specialist either, but carbon fiber and aluminum will cause serious corrosion issues without the necessary steps to keep it at bay. Typically there is a layer of fiberglass, but I'm certain there are other steps that can be taken. Both materials can transmit electricity and due to their different ratings, that is where the problem starts. Insulate the materials will prevent the issue.

Just because any of us have never seen it, doesn't mean it does not happen. I certainly can believe that at least one frame left the line with a flaw and with corrosion, it's a matter of time before it shows it's ugly head. 

I'm looking forward to the end of the story.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

11spd said:


> Thanks. Problem with the galvantic corrosion theory is...carbon fiber isn't prone to it.


Uhhh. WRONG.



1Butcher said:


> I'm no engineer and just because Boeing is in my back yard does not make me a specialist either, but carbon fiber and aluminum will cause serious corrosion issues without the necessary steps to keep it at bay.


I'm an engineer. And you are absolutely correct. But don't take my word for it. I'm just some dude on the interwebs.


Boeing | Aero 07 - Design for Corrosion
For example, graphite fibers, which are used to reinforce some plastic structure, present a particularly challenging galvanic corrosion combination. The fibers are good electrical conductors and they produce a *large galvanic potential* with the aluminum alloys

https://www.corrosionpedia.com/2/15...connected-to-carbon-fiber-reinforced-polymers
Aluminum alloys are *extremely vulnerable* when they are coupled to a carbon composite.

Galvanic Corrosion in Carbon Fiber Materials - Blog - Proven Productivity
The issue with using carbon fiber materials for fastener applications is that carbon fiber is electrically conductive, thus making it more susceptible to galvanic corrosion. When coupled with a fastener, bolt or nut, the situation worsens. Aluminum and plain steel, when coupled with a carbon composite, are both* highly susceptible *to galvanic corrosion.
Galvanic corrosion with carbon fiber materials has been an issue for decades, but experts have yet to produce a universal solution for the problem.


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

Good stuff tig. Somewhat agree with Butcher as well...his assertion.
I believe what we have here is likely galvanic corrosion. Hard to ascribe a different root cause.

I have been around the sport for many years. Will say again, I have NEVER seen it.
This maybe a first. A black swan. Very rare. Virtually never discussed on bike forums because it virtually never exists. CF has been around for well over a decade on bicycles. 
So, this maybe a clear and blatant instance. If others here have seen it before on homogenous carbon fiber frames...not carbon/Al or carbon/Ti composites, please post your experience.


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## rcb78 (Jun 15, 2008)

You see it when you work in a shop, not an overwhelmingly large number of bikes, but it is out there. It's simply a numbers game, decades of riding many bikes will never compete with what comes through the door in a single year at a busy shop. Best example is Al nipples in carbon rims in a wet and salty environment. Give it a few years and they look absolutely nasty. I've seen plenty of other failures too, it's just not worth the effort to blast them out on the web everytime I see something like that. I'd rather spend my time riding than frame bashing online.


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## 1Butcher (Mar 15, 2011)

I've read my fair share of bashing on the internet, I do not believe the OP started this thread intending on bashing anyone. 

Certainly, this thread is not done and could turn out to be that way.


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

rcb78 said:


> You see it when you work in a shop, not an overwhelmingly large number of bikes, but it is out there. It's simply a numbers game, decades of riding many bikes will never compete with what comes through the door in a single year at a busy shop. Best example is Al nipples in carbon rims in a wet and salty environment. Give it a few years and they look absolutely nasty. I've seen plenty of other failures too, it's just not worth the effort to blast them out on the web everytime I see something like that. I'd rather spend my time riding than frame bashing online.


Perhaps in not your best interest rcb...but that doesn't excuse others from talking about galvanic corrosion of CF frames on the web. Guess what? It is virtually never discussed in the context of carbon fiber as a common or uncommon failure mode. Galvanic corrosion of carbon fiber is virtually a non issue. I admit, this looks like galvanic corrosion of the OP's bike. I ride with owners, techs and workers at lbs. Galvanic corrosion would be discussed if it is an issue. It isn't. But looks like we have it here and hope the OP gets support from Specialized. As discussed, I own literally the identical bike and model year with 10r carbon in a very salty environment near the beach on the coast of FL and no issue...about 30,000 miles on the bike.


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## rcb78 (Jun 15, 2008)

I stand by what I said and have no need to prove it. I'd think someone like you would understand the what I meant when I mentioned numbers, guess I was wrong.


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

If you have a look at some of the Youtube videos from Luescher Teknik (he has a background in aerospace, bike design and does carbon bike repairs) he often talks about and shows Galvanic corosion on carbon frames and in carbon wheels (he cuts them up). Usually around water bottle mounts, spoke nipples, carbon bars/ alloy stems etc caused by sweat. Cycling Maven and Shane Miller also have videos featuring Raoul Luescher talking about Galvanic Corosion in carbon parts. (Usually has an associated alloy part with it)


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

Hereare a couple of shots from Raoul's IG feed, but the videos are more informative


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

rcb78 said:


> I stand by what I said and have no need to prove it. I'd think someone like you would understand the what I meant when I mentioned numbers, guess I was wrong.


Cool. Feel ya. I do look through the lens of probability. All of us do as bike riders...including if we believe that galvanic corrosion is a game changer every time we get on our bikes...including living along a salty sea coast like I do and my other 200 carbon bike riding club friends. We don't have a problem with it.
Does it exist? Yes...appears so. So do CAT 1 racers on MUPs. Rare.


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## Jackhammer (Sep 23, 2014)

rcb78 said:


> You see it when you work in a shop, not an overwhelmingly large number of bikes, but it is out there. It's simply a numbers game, decades of riding many bikes will never compete with what comes through the door in a single year at a busy shop. Best example is Al nipples in carbon rims in a wet and salty environment. Give it a few years and they look absolutely nasty. I've seen plenty of other failures too, it's just not worth the effort to blast them out on the web everytime I see something like that. I'd rather spend my time riding than frame bashing online.


Currently have an issue with corrosion on the top of the bottom bracket shell of a 2009, Roubaix S-Works SL-2. 

I will say that the Specialized warranty is somewhat of a joke.

It's for the lifetime of the original owner and corrosion is not covered.

Also it's comical that they point out that living in a hot, humid, salt air environment, will cause them to cast doubt on any warranty claims. That disclaimer eliminates a pretty fair proportion of the American populace on the Eastern Seaboard.

I happened to have purchased the bike in S Florida.

It's hardly evident at this point and can barely be seen in the pictures sent to Specialized.

They haven't pulled the crank, but the bearings which have been replaced at least 4 times by another Specialized dealer are silky smooth.


The bike probably has over 50K miles on it, but as I mentioned to the shop manager at the Specialized dealer, the mileage is completely irrelevant IMHO.

CF frames are promoted as corrosion and "wear and tear" proof apart from crash damage.

As for galvanic corrosion being rare, I have two Look KG 381's with alloy lugs and the Team Edition, has substantial bubbling around the lugs..The Jalabert Edition has no corrosion.

The warranty is laughable..

https://media.specialized.com/support/0000009968/0000009968_r3.pdf


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## Jackhammer (Sep 23, 2014)

rcb78 said:


> You see it when you work in a shop, not an overwhelmingly large number of bikes, but it is out there. It's simply a numbers game, decades of riding many bikes will never compete with what comes through the door in a single year at a busy shop. Best example is Al nipples in carbon rims in a wet and salty environment. Give it a few years and they look absolutely nasty. I've seen plenty of other failures too, it's just not worth the effort to blast them out on the web everytime I see something like that. I'd rather spend my time riding than frame bashing online.


Specialized warranty regarding corrosion is absolutely laughable.

I have an issue on the NDS at the top of the bottom bracket shell where the paint is starting to become raised in about a 2 cm arc.

https://media.specialized.com/support/0000009968/0000009968_r3.pdf

It's a 2009 Roubaix S-Works SL-2 with about 50K miles on it.

I'm thinking that's a normal amount for an avid cyclist and the shop manager is acting like it's excessive which would negate any warranty.

Especially since, outside of a crash, the frame is supposed to last forever. 

I'm talking to the shop manager who's going to present me with a list of complete bike crash replacement options. (I bought it as a frame and seatpost originally)

I'm a little annoyed at the default to the "crash replacement" idea, being that the aluminum shell was known as a point of corrosion for a while and carbon alternatives have existed for a while.


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## Jackhammer (Sep 23, 2014)

Jackhammer said:


> Specialized warranty regarding corrosion is absolutely laughable.
> 
> I have an issue on the NDS at the top of the bottom bracket shell where the paint is starting to become raised in about a 2 cm arc.
> 
> ...


I did speak to Calfee and the fella there told me a lot of BB corrosion is cosmetic, but I really have no way of knowing that at the moment.


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## Jackhammer (Sep 23, 2014)

Jackhammer said:


> I did speak to Calfee and the fella there told me a lot of BB corrosion is cosmetic, but I really have no way of knowing that at the moment.


My LBS didn't even remove the crankset to have a look inside the bottom bracket.

However, Specialized had a list of complete bikes to "crash replace" my frame at like 30-40% off retail??

I didn't get into it with the LBS, but I don't think I'll be using them again.

They wanted $35 to pull the cranks off for an inspection of a $2,700 retail frame?

Seems excessive.

Am I off here?



I'm going to have to call Specialized directly.


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