# Boonen a doper?



## hrv (Dec 9, 2001)

I vowed to myself to never enter any discussions on this board. Too much like little old ladies discussing National Enquirer articles. But , alas, I caved in...

So is it beyond the realm of possiblity that Boonen might have learned a few more tricks, other than how to ride the classics, from the Lion of Flanders? I wouldn't be surprised if he did. He's still a great racer, either way.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

hrv said:


> I vowed to myself to never enter any discussions on this board. Too much like little old ladies discussing National Enquirer articles. But , alas, I caved in...
> 
> So is it beyond the realm of possiblity that Boonen might have learned a few more tricks, other than how to ride the classics, from the Lion of Flanders? I wouldn't be surprised if he did. He's still a great racer, either way.


Of course it's not beyond the realm of possibility that Boonen dopes, and FWIW it's not the riders who know how to dope it is the MDs, Vets, and soigneurs who know how to do it and not get caught.

And furthermore, if you pay attention, you'll notice that it was the same soigneur's arms that Boonen was wrapped in shedding his tears of joy today as Museeuw was crying tears of disappointment in last year when he had that disastrous flat taking him out of the lead group in Paris-Roubaix in the final 10k.


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## dlbcx (Aug 28, 2002)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Of course it's not beyond the realm of possibility that Boonen dopes, and FWIW it's not the riders who know how to dope it is the MDs, Vets, and soigneurs who know how to do it and not get caught.
> 
> And furthermore, if you pay attention, you'll notice that it was the same soigneur's arms that Boonen was wrapped in shedding his tears of joy today as Museeuw was crying tears of disappointment in last year when he had that disastrous flat taking him out of the lead group in Paris-Roubaix in the final 10k.


Hopefully, he is riding clean. I imagine the pressure on all of the Belgian riders is tremendous... the papers were all over them last year when Wesemann won while there were two Belgians with him. It is almost like having the Philly press on you all of the time for every race that the Belgians fail to win, especially in Belgium.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

If you win, you're a doper. PERIOD!

francois


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*seems to be the main element for suspicion*



francois said:


> If you win, you're a doper. PERIOD!


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*That's how it is today...*



atpjunkie said:


> francois said:
> 
> 
> > If you win, you're a doper. PERIOD!
> ...


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

magnolialover said:


> Without data, you're just another person with an opinion.


Yeah but data exists other than merely testing positive or else we'd have to give Pantani, Museeuw, Millar, Virenque, Zulle, Brochard, Dufaux, Gotti, Jeanson etc. the benefit of the doubt and say they were riding clean. Of course several of those admitted to doping but several of them never failed a drug test and never admitted anything but almost without a doubt were doping.


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*I don't consider...*



Dwayne Barry said:


> Yeah but data exists other than merely testing positive or else we'd have to give Pantani, Museeuw, Millar, Virenque, Zulle, Brochard, Dufaux, Gotti, Jeanson etc. the benefit of the doubt and say they were riding clean. Of course several of those admitted to doping but several of them never failed a drug test and never admitted anything but almost without a doubt were doping.


I don't consider some of those people dopers, as they were never sanctioned for doping offenses. Millar was, he admitted his doping use, and was fired. Virenque admitted it later, and was fired as well. Jeanson never tested positive and never admitted anything. Do I think they are all riding clean?? Probably not, but call it a willful suspension of disbelief. I like to watch cycling, and watch the races. When someone gets popped and fired, I say good riddance and move on with it. 

You could also add to the list you have above then, Armstrong, Merckx, Anquetil, Hinnault, Lemond, and so on and so forth. You might as well just list out the entire pro peloton past and present, because once again, without proof and evidence, what do you have? Nothing but false accusations and alleged behavior.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*Ricky V and the all stars*



magnolialover said:


> I don't consider some of those people dopers, as they were never sanctioned for doping offenses. Millar was, he admitted his doping use, and was fired. Virenque admitted it later, and was fired as well. Jeanson never tested positive and never admitted anything. Do I think they are all riding clean?? Probably not, but call it a willful suspension of disbelief. I like to watch cycling, and watch the races. When someone gets popped and fired, I say good riddance and move on with it.
> 
> You could also add to the list you have above then, Armstrong, Merckx, Anquetil, Hinnault, Lemond, and so on and so forth. You might as well just list out the entire pro peloton past and present, because once again, without proof and evidence, what do you have? Nothing but false accusations and alleged behavior.


I agree (with the intent, not content) 

1 spectacular exception: Virenque.

He is a father, admitted doping on his own, (despite the MINOR scandal at that time) and oh yeah NEVER tested positive. BONUS he even got weepy and looked mournfully at the cameras as he wondered what would happen to his body and the future with his family.....

NEVER MIND that he is cheered while WINNING Ventoux in 2002 and the KOM I believe in 04?

yes, We all have opinions.


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## Utah CragHopper (May 9, 2003)

magnolialover said:


> I don't consider some of those people dopers, as they were never sanctioned for doping offenses.


Pantani - Crashed, messed up his leg, and had his hematocrit was measured at 55. In '99 he was tossed from the Giro with a hematocrit of 52.

Museeuw - Suspended for two years when his SMS messages talking about NESP were discovered.

Millar - Ratted out by Gaumont. Confessed.

Virenque - Festina. Confessed.

Zulle - Festina. Confessed.

Brochard - Festina. Confessed.

Dufaux - Festina. Ratted out by Voet. Confessed I think.

Gotti - Dr. Ferrari's siezed medical dossiers showed him with a hematocrit of 58 when he was on the infamous Gewiss team.

Jeanson - Decided it would be best to not take a dope test. Surely innocent


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## Utah CragHopper (May 9, 2003)

Hey, don't be dissin' my man Virenque. He always won with style.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*now were you being sarcastic about Richard?*

a guy such as yourself with such a history of anti doping can't be a Virenque fan without a huge dosage of shall we say Cognitive Dissonance.


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## technocycle (Oct 29, 2004)

*They all are*



hrv said:


> I vowed to myself to never enter any discussions on this board. Too much like little old ladies discussing National Enquirer articles. But , alas, I caved in...
> 
> So is it beyond the realm of possiblity that Boonen might have learned a few more tricks, other than how to ride the classics, from the Lion of Flanders? I wouldn't be surprised if he did. He's still a great racer, either way.



It is just a matter of time. Riders in the NRC are getting nailed. It seems like every week someone new in the UCI is getting hit. I think it is just a matter of time until they all get caught.


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## Utah CragHopper (May 9, 2003)

Huge Virenque fan. Also Pantani, Chiappucci, and Hampsten. Only one of the four wasn't doping.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*well the old adgae fits then*

everytime you point a finger (Armstrong)
there are 3 pointing back at you
(Virenque, Pantani, Chiapucci)

this really kills your credibility you realize. since 2 of your faves (marco and richard)
had their careers overshadowed by the man you hate, all your claiming comes off as sour grapes from a very sore loser.

FYI - I liked Marco (my glass house, why I avoid throwing stones)
agree with Van Impe and the Eagle about Virenque. Not a true climber and made the battle for the Polka Dot far more boring than Lance's Domination of the Yellow.


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## Utah CragHopper (May 9, 2003)

atpjunkie said:


> this really kills your credibility you realize


There he goes again, practicing psychoanalysis over the Internet without a license. After the blatant malpractice shown with your analysis of BG's motives I thought you would have taken down your shingle by now.

Grow out of your black and white view of doping and realize the whole sport is dirty. Then you won't feel so bad when riders get popped. I've never used the word "cheat" when referring to doping because I don't feel that it fits the situation. It doesn't detract from the riders' accomplishments when the rest of the contenders are also doping.

If your anti-French bias made it impossible to enjoy Virenque's solo victories in pursuit of the KOM title, you missed out on some great racing.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*as I said no glass house*

I'm aware of the problems in the peloton. I throw no stones until rider is convicted, sorry it's a justice thing for me. Like I said loved Pantani regardless of his faults.

as for Virenque not anti-French. watching him on a one day escape, getting enough pts to take the KOM and losing 20 minutes never impressed me much.

Lucien Van Impe said it best, and I paraphrase "when I went or the eagle went, no one stayed with us, not Merckx, not Gimondi, no one, Virenque escaps with 4 guys on his wheel and the next day he is done, no true climber loses 20 minutes on a Mtn stage"

there's been plenty of French riders I have liked and like (Voekler the newest) but Virenque and the rules made the KOM laughable and boring.


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## Utah CragHopper (May 9, 2003)

The KOM contest is not a contest to see who is the best climber. It is a game. It has a set of rules and the racer who scores the most points under those rules wins. It's designed to make the race more interesting by giving fans something to watch other than the G.C. If you wanted to award the best climber in the race then LA would have one four out the last five and Mayo would have won one.

If you want to judge current riders by the standards of history, then none of them are going to fare very well. Different eras. Is Binda going to climb out of the grave and start dissing Mario's Giro record?

Totally putting aside the seven KOM titles, Virenque has the best set of heroic stage victories of anyone in the last decade.

What is it with Virenque that enrages Americans? Has Bush linked him with with Sadam and Osama?


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## Hardy Cyclamens (Mar 21, 2005)

Yeah sure . . . win a significant race and get slaped with the "DOPER" label. 

Hey! I'm a doper! Sure! Now maybe I can start winning some significant races?


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*at last an easy answer*



Utah CragHopper said:


> The KOM contest is not a contest to see who is the best climber. It is a game. It has a set of rules and the racer who scores the most points under those rules wins. It's designed to make the race more interesting by giving fans something to watch other than the G.C. If you wanted to award the best climber in the race then LA would have one four out the last five and Mayo would have won one.
> 
> If you want to judge current riders by the standards of history, then none of them are going to fare very well. Different eras. Is Binda going to climb out of the grave and start dissing Mario's Giro record?
> 
> ...


Its that finger he kisses when he wins a stage. I have fantasies of breaking that finger off of his hand, strapping it on my waist as a phallus and use it to hump a hole in that thin puny skull of his. GOD I HATE THAT MAN. Virenque, that is, personally, I dont give a toss for George either.


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## Utah CragHopper (May 9, 2003)

*Don't be hatin'*

If you have any strong feelings for or against a racer ATP will label you a "homer" or a "super hater". Apparently we are all supposed to be like him, the anti-tifosi, who loves his fellow man equally and has no passion for the sport.


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## Fredke (Dec 10, 2004)

magnolialover said:


> You could also add to the list you have above then, Armstrong, Merckx, Anquetil, Hinnault, Lemond, and so on and so forth.


But Merckx _did_ fail a drug test and was sanctioned (1969 Giro), so he meets your standard. 

As to Anquetil, in 1966 he admitted drug use, saying, "You think you can race Bordeaux-Paris on mineral water? ... You go crazy, you're doped to the eyeballs." On another occasion he said, "Everyone's doing it, no exceptions." When doping tests were instituted, Anquetil refused to participate and led a protest against the Tour's demanding a urine sample from Poulidor. [Quotations from Graeme Fife, "Tour de France," p. 166]


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*have a huge passion for the sport*

but not to the level that I'll slam and slander a rider I dislike. I could never get behind Mapei even though I'm a Belgiaphile, I could never get over their kits and riding Colnago's for most part in my area is the bastion of Rich Fred's. I was a huge Museeuw fan regardless, just had an easier time after the split. I didn't love Lemond but I'll go to my grave thinking Hinault (whom I also like) is a welcher. Doesn't diminish my respect for ther Badger as a rider. Now if you came on the site and said I hate Armstrong cause he's an arrogant pr!ck, I'd be okay, but to say "He's on drugs" would be akin to me screamiong Boonen is on drugs cause he beat Magnus Backstedt at P-R. Would be especially lame if I had a long list of convicted druggies in my stable of 'heroes'.
I'm still trying to remember a huge Virenque win. Nobody in real GC hopes pays any attention to him, they let him go as he loses 20 the following day. So he beats a bunch of so-sos for one stage, where's the drama in that? Pantani's drubbing of Ullrich was drama, LA's drumming of everybody after the mussette was drama, please help me remember one of Virenque's Heroic victories. last one I can think of is where he broke his promise to Axel Merckx.


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## unchained (May 8, 2002)

*No argument here.*



Utah CragHopper said:


> Huge Virenque fan. Also Pantani, Chiappucci, and Hampsten. Only one of the four wasn't doping.


I love all four of these guys. Yeah, Chiappucci would never resort to doping.

Virenque looked especially stylish when he won in that bright Polti jersey. He also looked good in Yellow in '04.

So what do you think about Mr. 60%? Alot of riders seem to be meeing with success after joining CSC. Say, didn't Tyler ride for Riis?


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## SickBoy (Oct 29, 2004)

I don't care if Genevieve Jeanson dopes. I saw her in AZ at Valley of the Sun in February and she has a dang nice body.


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## R.Rice (Aug 23, 2004)

francois said:


> If you win, you're a doper. PERIOD!
> 
> francois


That sums up the mentality in this forum.


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