# are White industries hub worth it?



## Wadl (Oct 8, 2011)

Hi,
I found a local wheel builder who can build me a set of wheels exactly like the boyd vitesse (same hub, Sapin CXRay spoke and kinlin 23 mm wide x 28 mm deep rim).

He told me that if I wanted to have even better wheels, I should go with White Industries T11 hub.

But they are 225$ more, which would make them at 800$.

First, would white industries hub worth that price? And secondly (is that even an english word? Lol), at that price, should I be looking at another set of wheelsbinstead of these???

Thank you guys.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Only you can answer your question. Would you be happy with a $75 Seiko watch or would you buy a $1200 Tag Heuer? So it comes down to do you see "value" (however you measure that) in $100 hubs or $400 hubs?

They all do the same job and, without knowing the trade names of the above stuff, I defy you to tell the difference. One might do it for longer than another and, if this is your bag, might do it with more style but in the end they're all tools - and tools priced for different budgets and desires. And they all work well too - from my $100 Asian source hubs to my Chris King and my Seiko to my Tag.


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## Wadl (Oct 8, 2011)

Thank you for your answer and If I understand you correctly, you say that I won't notice a difference between both hub???

So why is there a big price difference between them?


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

I think that the Whites are a great option. We use the T11s (and H2/H3s) on most of our builds. They are the only hubset that we sell that we've never had any warranty issues with (knock on wood). They are extremely durable, and even though they're a bit more expensive option, they are worth their weight in gold.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Wadl said:


> If I understand you correctly, you say that I won't notice a difference between both hub?


Not by riding down the road IMO and from my own findings too.



> So why is there a big price difference between them?


Country of origin (labor rates and cost of doing business is more in the USA than Taiwan/China). 
Quality of materials and construction (the White does have a titanium cassette carrier for instance). 
It's the same as comparing a Ritchey headset with a Chris King. One costs (approx) 3x more than the other. Is it worth it to you?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

i'll second Zen's comments, they are good. i've only ever warrantied one rear hub in over 15yrs of working w/ them. 
but...
as Mike said, you'll NEVER feel any difference while riding. you MAY find that they last longer than the other, less expensive hubs. you'll need to replace bearings in either hub periodically. i like the Ti freehub and the steel axle on the WI hubs, even w/ those parts they're still very light. they're very well made and the new T11 hubs look sweet.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

I enjoy my White Industries hubs a bunch. It doesn't hurt that they are absolutely beautiful to look at.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

All this being said by everyone (which is all correct) the Asian source hubs - there are many makers and only Boyd will know who his are made by - are a great value. I've got a few thousand miles, over 3-4 years, on a couple of sets and they have been totally problem free - just like my Kings, Whites and Campagnolos.

Brandon at BikeHubStore.com (he hangs around at this forum) formed a whole business from selling them -

BikeHubStore.com


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

Wadl said:


> Thank you for your answer and If I understand you correctly, you say that I won't notice a difference between both hub???
> 
> So why is there a big price difference between them?


They weigh less and they do that partly by utilizing more expensive material like Ti. People nowadays are fixated about grams so saving about 100 of them ought to worth some money and that's what you pay more for.
If you are to compare Ultegra 6700 to Durace 7900 (and I do this on purpose rather than addressing the T11 vs. xyz Asian) functionality wise are pretty similar. The Durace is about 80 grams less and costs $240 more. Arguably it's got better seals and easier adjustment than the Ultegra but with minimum care the Ultegra will last you for thousands of miles and will roll as good as the Durace. For reference, 80 grams is your water bottle half full; are you faster with half empty bottles?
Having said that I would like also to say that we all should have the fancier stuff but get them for the right reasons and not for false expectations.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

dcgriz said:


> For reference, 80 grams is your water bottle half full; are you faster with half empty bottles?


FWIW a small full waterbottle is 648 grams.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

Mike T. said:


> FWIW a small full waterbottle is 648 grams.


You made me go and look now! 610 grams to be exact for 21oz and 60F ambient; I got warmer weather than you


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

dcgriz said:


> You made me go and look now! 610 grams to be exact for 21oz and 60F ambient; I got warmer weather than you


That's not surprising as I'm in Canada. But I weighed mine years ago (maybe water was heavier then) and have used it as a weight-weenie reference many times. They blanch at adding 5g to their bikes but think nothing of a couple of full waterbottles or the zero performance loss that they notice when carrying them.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

Mike T. said:


> That's not surprising as I'm in Canada. But I weighed mine years ago (maybe water was heavier then) and have used it as a weight-weenie reference many times. They blanch at adding 5g to their bikes but think nothing of a couple of full waterbottles or the zero performance loss that they notice when carrying them.


It gets even heavier if you have it in a SS bottle.😛
We all have to go through the motions before we understand. The weight-weenie stuff have their place in a race environment and for the right people, where every second counts. Marketing is powerful however and is addressed to the weekend warrior and aspiring part time racer. Nothing wrong in getting the fancy stuff; I have them and I'm sure you do too, the difference I think is that we both know what their true contribution to our performance is.


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## NWS Alpine (Mar 16, 2012)

Price is not bad but I just got a set built and shipped for a little less. Same rim, spokes, White T11 hubs, black brass nipples. How many spokes are you going with? I went with 24/28. 

I went with the T11 hubs for their durability and 11 speed Ti freehub body.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

dcgriz said:


> Nothing wrong in getting the fancy stuff; I have them and I'm sure you do too, the difference I think is that we both know what their true contribution to our performance is.


Oh yeah my Ti King bottlecages knocked minutes off my 30 mile ride time.


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## Wadl (Oct 8, 2011)

I am affraid to go with 20/24, I want very stiff wheels. I currently ride with r500, which are 24/28, but not to stiff.

Yeah, I think I will go with 24/28 too.


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## Enoch562 (May 13, 2010)

I think the WI hubs are worth the extra. Nothing wrong with the BHS hubs, but if money was no object, I would get the WI hubs.


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## Darryl W (Jul 10, 2010)

*WI hubs*

I agree White Industries are worth it. I have a set of T-11's arriving any day now for a customer to be built with HED Belgium rims. The customer has a current set with WI hubs with over 20k trouble free miles. He didn't even want to entertain other hub alternatives. 

Darryl
www.wheelwerks.us


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

Wadl said:


> I am affraid to go with 20/24, I want very stiff wheels. I currently ride with r500, which are 24/28, but not to stiff.
> 
> Yeah, I think I will go with 24/28 too.


I think could go 20/28 and be just as satisfied. Keep in mind front wheels are much stiffer than rears due to the equalization of tension on both sides. With that said, the rigidity difference between that build in 20 vs 24 up front will not be noticeable.


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## Tunnelrat81 (Mar 18, 2007)

Darryl W said:


> I agree White Industries are worth it. I have a set of T-11's arriving any day now for a customer to be built with HED Belgium rims. The customer has a current set with WI hubs with over 20k trouble free miles. He didn't even want to entertain other hub alternatives.
> 
> Darryl


I've been riding the HED C2 rims laced to H2/H3 combo and have only become more happy with my decision the more I ride them. The hubs and rims look amazing on their own, and together are a wonderful combination of looks AND durability. The only (small) compromise that this wheelset made was the slightly increased weight. I built mine with 24/28 DT Swiss Comp spokes, so they're a bit heavier, but extremely stiff and extremely easy to find spokes for in the unlikely occurrence that I have trouble away from home. In the price-range, I don't know if there's a better hub. Whether or not the higher pricepoint is justifiable, only you can answer that. But if you are asking, "Are WI hubs worth their asking price," I believe the answer is yes.


-Jeremy


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## mwestray (Jan 4, 2008)

I would be the customer that Darryl is referring to and he's right; the only other hub I'd consider is the CK R45, but I can't really justify the additional cost. The WI hubs are reasonably priced, relatively light, easy to maintain (though I've never really had to do any maintenance), well-built, and beautifully finished. And they are relatively uncommon (at least here in NC), so there is that buzz you get when the guy on your wheel pulls up and asks "Hey, those hubs look cool, what are they?".


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

If you want to save costs with no realistic compromise, ditch the CX rays for lasers or revs. Same weight, same performance, but 1/3rd the cost. Money is definitely better spent on the hubs! The new T11's look great. My only gripe about WI was the looks, but those new hubs are attractive.

The WI hubs will build to stiffer wheels than the BHS/boyd hubs. A little better geometry... all though ive been 190-220lb on the asian hubs and they're stiff enough with a stiff rim.


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## coachboyd (Jan 13, 2008)

TomH said:


> If you want to save costs with no realistic compromise, ditch the CX rays for lasers or revs. Same weight, same performance, but 1/3rd the cost. Money is definitely better spent on the hubs! The new T11's look great. My only gripe about WI was the looks, but those new hubs are attractive.
> 
> The WI hubs will build to stiffer wheels than the BHS/boyd hubs. A little better geometry... all though ive been 190-220lb on the asian hubs and they're stiff enough with a stiff rim.


That is not true, the new T11 has a 16mm drive side flange spacing and is nowhere near the drive side flange measurement of what we are currently using and is way less that what we have planned for next year. I'm not saying it's not a great hub, but the drive side flange width is definitely limited.


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## jct78 (Dec 12, 2011)

Zen Cyclery said:


> I think that the Whites are a great option. We use the T11s (and H2/H3s) on most of our builds. They are the only hubset that we sell that we've never had any warranty issues with (knock on wood). They are extremely durable, and even though they're a bit more expensive option, they are worth their weight in gold.


what's the difference b/w the new T11 and the old H2/3? i just noticed that the H2/3 isn't even on their site anymore....


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## FuelForThought (May 13, 2012)

jct78 said:


> what's the difference b/w the new T11 and the old H2/3? i just noticed that the H2/3 isn't even on their site anymore....


T11 is compatible with Shimano 11 speed while H2/H3 only went up to Shimano 10-speed (or Campy 11). WRT flange spacing and dimensions, the T11 is identical to the Campy version of H2/H3.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

coachboyd said:


> That is not true, the new T11 has a 16mm drive side flange spacing and is nowhere near the drive side flange measurement of what we are currently using and is way less that what we have planned for next year. I'm not saying it's not a great hub, but the drive side flange width is definitely limited.


Wouldn't be fair to say that the hub you are currently using is for up to a 10 speed cassette? The WI predecessor to the T11 hub had a 18mm DS flange and that's up there as far as flange width goes. I suspect the adaptor and the extra gear had a lot to do with the flange width reduction. Incidentally, what is the current Boyd DS flange spacing? No info on your web site on this.
It would also be interesting to see what is going to happen to the CK R45 DS flange width of 18.9mm when they release their 11 speed version.


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