# Do all Spec carbon frames creak and clack?



## Special Eyes (Feb 2, 2011)

I've owned a roubaix and now a tarmac s-works sl3. Both frames creak while traversing a hump or a fast change in surface height. Not a sharp bump but a milder quick rise and fall. I'll never be able to pinpoint the source, bit it's the same loud 'crack' sound. I thought it would leave my life when I sold the roubaix, but the Tarmac now has it. Am I cursed?


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## GONE4ARIDE (Mar 19, 2003)

I have owned a Tarmac Pro SL, an S-Works SL3 and an S-Works SL4 and I have never experienced the noises that you are describing.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Frame noises can travel, thus deceive, but that 'crack' sound you describe might be coming from your (too loose) headset or (in my case) one of your STI's - assuming Shimano.

I narrowed mine down by holding the shifter slightly 'in' while traversing those irregularities, and the noise disappeared. It (apparently) was caused by the shifters outer lever stop hitting the adjoining area.


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## purdyd (Jun 18, 2010)

PJ352 said:


> Frame noises can travel, thus deceive, but that 'crack' sound you describe might be coming from your (too loose) headset or (in my case) one of your STI's - assuming Shimano.
> 
> I narrowed mine down by holding the shifter slightly 'in' while traversing those irregularities, and the noise disappeared. It (apparently) was caused by the shifters outer lever stop hitting the adjoining area.


Let see

I have had front and rear quick releases - zipp

Front hub, alchemy

Bottom bracket - SRAM red

Rear brake cable where the outer sheatnng goes into the front cable holder was my latest creak


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

purdyd said:


> Let see
> 
> I have had front and rear quick releases - zipp
> 
> ...


All told, in my 28+ years of road riding (~6k annually) I don't think I've experienced that number of problems. 

That given, I'd reassess your wrenches skills in performing maintenance/ assembly.


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## purdyd (Jun 18, 2010)

PJ352 said:


> All told, in my 28+ years of road riding (~6k annually) I don't think I've experienced that number of problems.
> 
> That given, I'd reassess your wrenches skills in performing maintenance/ assembly.


I' d get your ears checked or have someone ride next to you and tell you

Seriously, I am not joking

I have a friend I ride with all the time and he can't hear any squeaks,and his bike was making an awful racket, frozen bearings in the pulleys

My point was most if not all creaking is not the frame


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

purdyd said:


> I' d get your ears checked or have someone ride next to you and tell you
> 
> Seriously, I am not joking
> 
> ...


If I've heard headset 'cracks' and remedied (and I have), narrowed down a slight click to my STI (and I have), saddle rail clicks (and I have), a 'chirp' at the RD (pulleys) my ears are fine. I actually have very sensitive hearing.

But I agree, barring a physical frame defect, most if not all noises are component/ sub-assembly related.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Special Eyes said:


> I've owned a roubaix and now a tarmac s-works sl3. Both frames creak while traversing a hump or a fast change in surface height. Not a sharp bump but a milder quick rise and fall. I'll never be able to pinpoint the source, bit it's the same loud 'crack' sound. I thought it would leave my life when I sold the roubaix, but the Tarmac now has it. Am I cursed?


The frames are pretty much identical in design if they each have internal cable routing. Only really difference is geometry and elastomers on the Roubaix.

If they both have internal cable routing with identical sound, here are some options:

1. There is a thread about poor headset stack up with the new redesigned lower profile steerer cap. I wrote about it and published pictures and show a shim which transforms the headset. It is pretty hard to get a proper stack up with that cap design without a shim. If you crank down your steerer bolt, you can freeze up your handlebar rotation. If you loosen the bolt slightly to have better freedom of rotation, the headset will have excessive clearance and can bang over bumps. The shim resolves it completely and now as good as any headset I have experienced.

2. Another thread has been written about a brake cable rattle. If you place a sleeve or donuts on the cable inside the top tube where the rear brake cable is threaded through, this will mitigate this rattle over bumps.

3. Seatpost clamp collar can crack if insufficiently torqued...spec is 55 in-lbs. Install carbon post dry...clean with alcohol.

4. Evaluate common parts you transferred from one bike to another if the sound is identical. It is pretty easy to change out parts and test. Wheelsets...and even spokes and nipples can make a cracking noise as the rim deflects under load...also lubricate skewers.

I will tell you my new Roubaix is dead quiet...no untoward noises whatsoever.

Good luck.


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

roadworthy said:


> The frames are pretty much identical in design if they each have internal cable routing. Only really difference is geometry and elastomers on the Roubaix.
> 
> If they both have internal cable routing with identical sound, here are some options:
> 
> ...


I had a sharp "crack" or "tick" that I could have sworn was in the crank...it would always seem to happen when my right pedal was at about 4:30 and I was out of the saddle. I finally tracked it down this morning and it was actually a slightly loose headset.


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## Oscarach (Jan 15, 2011)

On my Tarmac SL2 a cracking sound like you describe while going over bumps or braking hard turned out to be the headset being loose.


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## Special Eyes (Feb 2, 2011)

Thanks, everyone Will look into these possibilities.


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## millerasm (Mar 28, 2012)

i had one that was my water bottle shaking around in the bottle cage. swore it was something else..


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Sounds to me like your seat rails where they enter the saddle or the seatpost where it clamps on the rails. I have the same thing on my SL4/S-Works post/Romin saddle. Ive tried to grease everything but still get it once every few hours on the bike.


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## Sablotny (Aug 15, 2002)

Easy to rail on the OP, but the suggestions are far more helpful. I read this as I was building my Tarmac SL3. Just finished and went for a shakedown ride today. Love the bike - but on the way back in.... squeak.... creak... circled around a parking lot and tried to determine if its the handlebar or BB (occurs when I stand & hammer). I'll also be taking some bits apart to inspect and lube.

I used carbon assembly friction paste on the seatpost, but nothing on the headset bearings, stem-to-steerer, stem-to-bar. So Special, you're not alone.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Sablotny said:


> Easy to rail on the OP, but the suggestions are far more helpful. I read this as I was building my Tarmac SL3. Just finished and went for a shakedown ride today. Love the bike - but on the way back in.... squeak.... creak... circled around a parking lot and tried to determine if its the handlebar or BB (occurs when I stand & hammer). I'll also be taking some bits apart to inspect and lube.
> 
> *I used carbon assembly friction paste on the seatpost, but nothing on the headset bearings, stem-to-steerer, stem-to-bar.* So Special, you're not alone.


FWIW other than ensuring both are clean and grease/ oil free, I don't use anything on the seat post/ tube interfaces, steerer tube/ stem or stem/ bar interfaces, but I do grease the headset cups and other metal to metal interfaces making up the headset assembly. I wouldn't recommend CF assembly paste for that.

For reference:
http://service.specialized.com/coll...ame---Carbon-Road-Frame-Instruction-Guide.pdf


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## new2rd (Aug 8, 2010)

Take a look at the pedals, it's one of the quickest fixes. I had one that would creak, thought it was the crank. Once I gave it a little extra torque everything was perfect.


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## Sablotny (Aug 15, 2002)

*Thanks for the link*



PJ352 said:


> FWIW other than ensuring both are clean and grease/ oil free, I don't use anything on the seat post/ tube interfaces, steerer tube/ stem or stem/ bar interfaces, but I do grease the headset cups and other metal to metal interfaces making up the headset assembly. I wouldn't recommend CF assembly paste for that.
> 
> For reference:
> http://service.specialized.com/coll...ame---Carbon-Road-Frame-Instruction-Guide.pdf



- reading it now


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Sablotny said:


> - reading it now


Yes, I'm aware of the tech tip, thus my "FWIW" comment. I see no harm in using CF paste for that application, but am of the mind that I'd use it 'if needed'. To date I haven't needed it, but I go ~134 lbs. most days, so YMMV.

As I mentioned, I wouldn't use CF paste for the headset assembly.


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## Sablotny (Aug 15, 2002)

Gotcha. My thigh probably weighs 134.


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## ssio (Apr 6, 2011)

roadworthy said:


> 3. Seatpost clamp collar can crack if insufficiently torqued...spec is 55 in-lbs. Install carbon post dry...clean with alcohol.


Cannot start a new thread yet, but since the seatpost collar related creaking is covered here, maybe I could ask in this topic aswell. Has anyone found an alternative seatpost collar that would be 32.6mm diameter and with the angled cut, like the Specialized ones?

I've been notoriously tracking a creak on my Roubaix Pro SL3, almost everything else is now ruled out, but the seatpost and the collar. The creaking only occurs while seated (if hammering the pedals while standing, no extra noises at all). If I loosen up the seatpost collar and re-torque to 6Nm, the creak will go away for a short while.. but slowly will return, only occasional noise but progressively occur more often, until I do the fiddling with the collar again. While the bike is standing on the floor, I could grab the saddle with my both hands, and twist it into any direction with lots of force and it wouldn't make any sounds at all.

I have two collars, the standard one that came with the Roubaix frameset, and an older S-Works one (also 32.6) that I used with my older Roubaix frame with no issues. I am installing them with rotated 180 degrees from the frame's seattube slot. In this frame, they both seem to creak all the same. Both collars have recommended torque of 6.2Nm printed in them, but the seatpost states that it's the MAXIMUM torque, so I'm not going to attempt further tightening beyond that. If I could find a more sturdy collar with this diameter and the angled cut, that would be something to try out. The mountain bike collars seem to have larger diameter.

Another thing I've been considering, is the seatpost's excessive length, it's a Specialized Pro Road Carbon 2-bolt post, in 400mm size. On RBR, there are few success stories about curing a mystery creak by shortening an overly long seatpost. On some other manufacturers, the installation manuals state that seatposts have maximum insertion into the frame. Like Cannondale: "Six13 frames are designed and manufactured for a maximum seat tube insertion of 200mm. Below this level, bond materials inside the carbon section of tube could offer a slight resistance to a seat post inserted more than 200 mm."

Also some others I found, but they have additional information about the frame's seattube containing an aluminium insert, seattube changing diameter or shape below certain point, but Specialized manuals have no such details. On my bike, I could easily cut out 100mm of the post and still have plenty of insertion in the frame. I have cut several fork carbon steerers with a fine enough saw blade, no issues with them, so I have no worries about getting to the cutting job itself. 

The thing is, the seatpost's manual advice you NOT to cut a composite seatpost! But then again.. on a frame like Transition, you are required to cut it to certain length, and the manual comes with instructions on how to do so. Anyone know the reasoning to Specialized advice against cutting this Pro Road seatpost then? And yes, it would have been smarter to get a 300mm seatpost to begin with, but I thought it's normal procedure to cut it length after finding the suitable insertion height. But ANY help is greatly appreciated, sorry for not having this on a dedicated thread!


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## Sablotny (Aug 15, 2002)

*Found my creak*

I took the headset assembly apart, lubed the outside of the cartridge bearings and reinstalled. Silent now.


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## ErickBrian (Jul 16, 2012)

I had the same problems, clicks and creaks. First it was the headset, then the bottom bracket, then I thought it was the pedals, then the saddle post. 

Eventually it went away on my comp SL2, but I now have an Expert SL3 that started that same problem. I rode in the rain on the AIDS ride from SF to LA and had a mechanic overhaul the headset, but it recently came back I guess. Only happens while out of the saddle or when I turn my handlebars I'll get a click.


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## badge118 (Dec 26, 2002)

I have had the same issue as the OP since I got my Roubaix Pro in 2009. I built it up in 2009 with Campy Chorus and AC Sprint 350 wheels. Cracked out of the gate on occassion. I have since obtained HED Ardennes and Reynolds Assault tubies. Same crack sound on occassion so I decided it was not something to do with the wheels.

Swapped from Chorus 10 to Chorus 11 speed...and swapped the Campy brakes for TRP breaks so I could color coordinate...stick cracked.

Swapped saddles and made sure all the right torque things were done, still happened.

Due to increasing my fitness and flexibility had spacers removed from under the stem. Still happened. Also replaced the CF spacers that came with the bike for Chris King.

Pretty much swapped out all the parts that could possibly create this issue and it still happens. Yes I did have a friend riding next to me once who asked "what was that?" so it is not me hearing noises.

The only thing I can possibly think of it that somewhere there is a cable housing close enough to the frame that it slaps the frame under optimal conditions because it does not happen every time I hit a hard edged bump, seated and unseated is irrelevant etc.

No clue why it happens, but I simply have had to get used to it. Annoying as hell that I had to get used to it but I guess stuff just happens.


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## Golfster (May 13, 2010)

My bike started making noises recently. It was driving me nuts. I'd hear the noise, pull over, stop, inspect cables, shifters, even the valve ring, as it seemed the sound was coming from the front. Finally, I hit a bump as I signaled to turn left...no noise. After the turn, I raised my left hand off the bar...no noise. It finally dawned on me that I started wearing an older watch while riding, a dive watch with metal bracelet. It was the watch I was hearing when I was certain it was the bike.

Noises travel, and not always easy to poinpoint. Good luck with yours - I hope it turns out to be minor.


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

I would look into the headset.
I have had nothing but problems with my SL3 headset.
Initially I could not get it adjusted right. As mentioned previously if I made it tight enough to get rid of play it would start binding. I took it back to the shop where I bought it and they added some thin washers on top of the top bearing. It seemed to take care of the problem at the time. Recently I took the fork out of the frame and reassembled it. Afterwards I had the same problem all over again. I noticed that there was a rubber gasket and o ring between the top bearing and top cap. I could not understand how a proper adjustment could be made with all that rubber in there. I took back to the shop again and this time they replace a bearing and the top cap. It seems ok now but I have not ridden much yet.
I have worked on my own bikes for 40 years and never had so many problems with a headset. Luckily the Specialized shop has been really trying to fix it.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Chain-FD slap?


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## badge118 (Dec 26, 2002)

Salsa_Lover said:


> Chain-FD slap?


It doesn't have a metal on metal sound, at least in my situation. That is why I wondered if it was the crack of housing against the frame. Hell it could be a noise generated from the Zert inserts. That is my suspicion. Unlike the latest that are screwed in my 2009 is the old school. The center is an elastomer but it is surrounded by a more rigid plastic shell. My guess was that since the seat stays are designed to flex that depending on how the energy is transfered that shell may be smacking (for lack of a better term) inside the seat stay or fork.


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## Z6_esb (Feb 16, 2012)

don't own specialized but I had an issue with some creaking. I thought it was seat post. If you have carbon seat post, make sure there is that compound in there. you could be stressing it? But, my issue was actually my seat. If i shifted my weight forward on my seat, I would hear a creaking sound. the plastic underbody was not adhered well. some epoxy cleared that up straight away.


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## rcjunkie3000 (Sep 5, 2009)

Great, my '12 SL3 with 1500mi now has BB creaking. Happens when I get out of the saddle and apply force. Sometimes the sound goes away and then returns.

I ruled out the headset, pedals, seatpost, seat and chain hitting chain catcher.

I took apart my FSA SL-K BB30 cranks. Cleaned and regreased the bearings and spindle. Same issue still. It is creaking when getting out of saddle on a climb or hill. Also, I can stand next to bike and push down on pedal with my hand and duplicate the creaking. It's definitey the bottom bracket.

I read Loctite does the trick. Where exactly do you put the Loctite and which one to use? I haven't found a tutorial or training video yet in my quest to fix this annoying sound.

Do the plastic cups that hold the press fit bearings also come out? Is the outside part of the cups what you need to apply Loctite to? I sure hope it can be removed after-the-fact.


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## OldChipper (May 15, 2011)

I have intermittent creaking/cracking with my '11 Roubaix Expert. Mostly with moderate to hard out of saddle efforts. Haven't yet isolated it to any one thing. Every time it starts up again, I go through and check tightened/adjustment of headset, stem/bar binder bolts, BB, pedals, etc. Sometimes that fixes it sometimes not. I've also had luck tightening the QR skewers. it creaking right now and I have to go through my routine again. Not enough time/patience to try one thing at a time yet.


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## GONE4ARIDE (Mar 19, 2003)

Try applying a very thin layer of grease to the axle nut / drop out interfaces. I have a 2010 S-Works SL3 and these interfaces have been the exclusive sources of creaking/cracking noises on my bike.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

jnbrown said:


> I would look into the headset.
> I have had nothing but problems with my SL3 headset.
> Initially I could not get it adjusted right. As mentioned previously if I made it tight enough to get rid of play it would start binding. I took it back to the shop where I bought it and they added some thin washers on top of the top bearing. It seemed to take care of the problem at the time. Recently I took the fork out of the frame and reassembled it. Afterwards I had the same problem all over again. I noticed that there was a rubber gasket and o ring between the top bearing and top cap. I could not understand how a proper adjustment could be made with all that rubber in there. I took back to the shop again and this time they replace a bearing and the top cap. It seems ok now but I have not ridden much yet.
> I have worked on my own bikes for 40 years and never had so many problems with a headset. Luckily the Specialized shop has been really trying to fix it.


The headset is resolvable with a shim. I posted a thread on this if you look. Most headset caps have a rubber seal. If the seal rubs of course...no good. Specialized when they redesigned the top headset cap from taller stack cone to lower stack cap, they missed the mark for nominal shoulder height. When you tighten the headset up, it binds the headset...top cap rubber seal compresses on the top bearing. This simple error basically ruins headset function...and the headset itself is perfect. The good news is the top cap seal interference issue is easily resolvable with a shim and the headset will be perfect after than. I presume for 2013 they have caught this error and the newer headset caps have been adjusted with a taller shoulder to stand off the seal from the top bearing for free rotation of the steerer.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

rcjunkie3000 said:


> Great, my '12 SL3 with 1500mi now has BB creaking. Happens when I get out of the saddle and apply force. Sometimes the sound goes away and then returns.
> 
> I ruled out the headset, pedals, seatpost, seat and chain hitting chain catcher.
> 
> ...


There should be no plastic cups with BB30 cranks on a BB30 bike.
Pretty common however for BB30 bearings to creak..especially if they aren't full bedded.
- Disassemble
- Clean all grease out
- Degrease with alcohol and adhesion promoter
- Apply green Loctite 609 or equivalent to outside of bearing being careful not to get any in the bearing. Look for Spesh service manual PDF on line

Your creaking should be behind you.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

FWIW, my 2012 Roubaix SL3 Pro built with Campy has been dead solid quiet. Btw, I do not have the rear brake cable sheath/O-rings installed inside the top tube to mitigate rattle...mine is quiet without and I ride on some bad roads.
So yes, the new Specialized carbon bikes can be quiet....I just hear the sweet whir of the spokes against air.


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## 67fb (Jul 30, 2007)

*Previous Headset Thread with Pics*



roadworthy said:


> The headset is resolvable with a shim. I posted a thread on this ...


Here is a link to the other thread where roadworthy posted pics and additional details

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/3826786-post18.html


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## rcjunkie3000 (Sep 5, 2009)

67fb said:


> Here is a link to the other thread where roadworthy posted pics and additional details
> 
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/3826786-post18.html


Thanks for the link. I have this same binding issue with my headset. It does not rotate freely thus preventing me from riding no-handed. I had an older '10 s-works sl3 that didnt have this issue. It must have had my old cane creek cone spacer.


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## desertgeezer (Aug 28, 2011)

My Roubaix had a creaking sound that I couldn't identify. The creaking stopped when I stopped pedaling. When I put it up on the rack and spun the cranks, it wouldn't make the sound.

Turned out it was my shoe. In the heat, my feet get sweaty and the shoes get damp. I keep them in the garage, which gets to about 110+ degrees. What happened was the leather on the upper part of the shoes dried out and the shoe uppers became stiff and squeaky. I stopped storing my shoes in the garage and the sound went away. But, for a few days my heart sank because I thought I had something wrong with my bike.


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## badge118 (Dec 26, 2002)

roadworthy said:


> FWIW, my 2012 Roubaix SL3 Pro built with Campy has been dead solid quiet. Btw, I do not have the rear brake cable sheath/O-rings installed inside the top tube to mitigate rattle...mine is quiet without and I ride on some bad roads.
> So yes, the new Specialized carbon bikes can be quiet....I just hear the sweet whir of the spokes against air.


Yeah mine is a 2009 though that did not have internal cable routing and that also used a different method for mounting the Zerts inside the fork and seat stays. Since everything else has been changed at least once in the years I have had the frame all I can think of is that it is in that interface. I am going to try the head set thing but barring that there is really no other explanation that I can come up with that would result in a "crack" sound on occasion when hitting a hard edged bump, seated and unseated.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

badge118 said:


> Yeah mine is a 2009 though that did not have internal cable routing and that also used a different method for mounting the Zerts inside the fork and seat stays. Since everything else has been changed at least once in the years I have had the frame all I can think of is that it is in that interface. I am going to try the head set thing but barring that there is really no other explanation that I can come up with that would result in a "crack" sound on occasion when hitting a hard edged bump, seated and unseated.


Good luck with your sleuthing. For a guy that is interested in bike design and built several, I never cease to be amazing how often I am wrong about where a sound is coming from. So if I have learned anything, sounds are hard to diagnose as they propagate along the bike...and carbon fiber is like a speaker. 
Good luck finding your issue...Saddles, seat clamps and seat tubes are many times the culprit but if your bike makes sound out of the saddle...skewers and cranks and pedals can be the issue....headsets can creak for sure if not properly tensioned.
Also, don't overlook the wheelset. A wheel can make a cracking noise when a rim elastically deflects and bottom spoke goes into compression...hitting a broken wheel surface.


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## badge118 (Dec 26, 2002)

Oh I know the wheel set thing but same crack with AC Sprint 350s, HED Ardennes running tubless with only 90 psi AND Reynolds Assault Tubulars. All wheels with the provided skewers When I said I have changed everything I do mean everything lol, except the seat post, headset, BB and frame of course. Doubt the BB would be involved.

Well see, and thanks for the gl wishes.


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