# New Hong Fu ...



## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

OK, I did it, ordered not one but 2 new Hong-Fu frames -- one road and one mtb. 

Arrived yesterday and I am very impressed -- excellent finish, painted exactly to my spec, very good communication, etc., etc. So far, the frames have not exploded or melted in the sunmight! ;-)

I ordered these as a test for my team -- we'll be racing these for a few months before deciding on a grouped team order for next season (40+ frames). So far I am very pleased, but we'll see how they stand up to some hard riding now!

I'll post pictures later, just waiting for some decals to finish out the livery and then will be building the road frame up w/ Chorus and the mtb w/ RS SID WC and SRAM XX.

Pictures below....


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## natethomas2000 (Aug 2, 2009)

Frames look quite nice to me


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## Dutch77 (Jan 3, 2009)

Wow, awesome paint job! Looking forward to seeing them built up :thumbsup:


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

I think the older Scott big weave looks dated--is it possible to get them fully painted (even if its just black paint where the carbon weave is now)? Where did you get them and how much $$?


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## Jetwave (Jun 1, 2009)

Very impressive, can you provide a link and how much for the roadframe? Thanks


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## PCMarcelino (Dec 22, 2008)

Beautiful frames and an even more beautiful kitchen!  

Good luck on your build and on your team.

Looking forward to hear your ride report when you build the bike up.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

Stunning! Can you give us a link to hook us up with that frame builder? Thanks, ru1-2cycle


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## CameronC (Oct 17, 2009)

I had that for dinner last night.
I was hungry an hour later.


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## PLAYONIT (Aug 25, 2009)

ru1-2cycle said:


> Stunning! Can you give us a link to hook us up with that frame builder? Thanks, ru1-2cycle




http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Prclass.asp?Id=1

Jenny is very pleasant to deal with.......


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## bikerboy337 (Jan 28, 2004)

Any info on the weight of the road frame? Also, you choose the decals on there?


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

*Sweet!*



PLAYONIT said:


> http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Prclass.asp?Id=1
> 
> Jenny is very pleasant to deal with.......


Hey playonit, thanks, just in time for Christmas!  ru1-2cycle


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## bizzybone485 (Sep 20, 2009)

looks great!! How much extra are they charging for the paint? Thanks


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## PLAYONIT (Aug 25, 2009)

bikerboy337 said:


> Any info on the weight of the road frame? Also, you choose the decals on there?



My frame un-painted with uncut ISP and fork with headset is 1730gms


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

*Stealth*



PLAYONIT said:


> My frame un-painted with uncut ISP and fork with headset is 1730gms


That is a hauntingly beautiful classic stealth look...sweet sweet!  ru1-2cycle


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## wchane (Aug 8, 2006)

was that painted to your spec/design? beautiful.

very well balanced design


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## vaetuning (Oct 1, 2009)

bizzybone485 said:


> looks great!! How much extra are they charging for the paint? Thanks


 Hi There

They charged me 50$ to do a paint job mostly similar to this one!!

They did so with exellent finish:thumbsup: 

Cheers


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

*Answers to questions...*

1. As Playonit indicated, these frames were ordered from Hong Fu, most likely a middleman, who had the frames manufactured at a local factory (which one, I do not know -- but I suspect there may be many manufacturing sites that now make these frames). Given the similarities, I assume this frame was manufactured at the site that Cube uses for its top=line Litening model (http://www.cube-bikes.de/xist4c/web/litening-hpc-race-e_id_35875_.htm) .. but I may be wrong.

2. Given my experience, communication with Hong-fu has been excellent and the finished product has surpassed my expectations. Already 2 team-mates may be ordering frames before our season-long trials end.

3. Weight for the road frame was 1075g (58 cm), uncut fork = 384g and MTB frame 1204g (19")

4. I designed the logo (one-time 80$ set-up cost from Hong-Fu) and had it painted according to one of Hong-fu's paint schemes ($45 for the frames, 5$ for the fork). Paint and logo placement was exactly on-spec.

5. I designed the non-logo decals and am having these made locally.

In short, dealing with Hong-fu has been an a very good experience and the product so-far has been beyond my initial expectations. The finish is superb (some very small blemishes in the drop-out cut-outs but believe me, I really had to look for those!), the weight is excellent and as advertised and Jenny at Hong-fu has been a real pleasure to deal with despite obviously working in a language that is not her own.

Next step is to build these up. I will report back once I have made a few initial rides.


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## wchane (Aug 8, 2006)

thanks for the feedback - the bike looks great, and you guys ended up with a 'custom team bike' for a dime.


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## robpar (Jan 26, 2008)

philippec said:


> 1. As Playonit indicated, these frames were ordered from Hong Fu, most likely a middleman, who had the frames manufactured at a local factory (which one, I do not know -- but I suspect there may be many manufacturing sites that now make these frames). Given the similarities, I assume this frame was manufactured at the site that Cube uses for its top=line Litening model (http://www.cube-bikes.de/xist4c/web/litening-hpc-race-e_id_35875_.htm) .. but I may be wrong.
> 
> 2. Given my experience, communication with Hong-fu has been excellent and the finished product has surpassed my expectations. Already 2 team-mates may be ordering frames before our season-long trials end.
> 
> ...


+1 on the communication with Jenny. I've traded MANY emails, pricing, color schemes, received the cad drawings for the 55 and 58 sizes. I have not bought yet since I'm not sure the geo would fit me: the 55 may be a little too aggressive for me and the 58 may be too big... I currently ride a 555 mm top tube (73.5 seat angle) and a 175mm head tube... I just can't decide if the 58 would work... i may just have to pass.
If they had a 56, I'd pull the trigger


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

robpar said:


> +1 on the communication with Jenny. I've traded MANY emails, pricing, color schemes, received the cad drawings for the 55 and 58 sizes. I have not bought yet since I'm not sure the geo would fit me: the 55 may be a little too aggressive for me and the 58 may be too big... I currently ride a 555 mm top tube (73.5 seat angle) and a 175mm head tube... I just can't decide if the 58 would work... i may just have to pass.
> If they had a 56, I'd pull the trigger


it would be nice to decide whether the frame sizes work for you BEFORE wasting their time with MANY emails on design questions...


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## Dr. Placebo (May 8, 2007)

I'm trying to figure out if I should give in to this frame's good looks. I usually ride a 56 but I run my saddle high and my stem short. This is already aggressive for me. What size frame do the two of you usually run?


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

Dr. Placebo said:


> I'm trying to figure out if I should give in to this frame's good looks. I usually ride a 56 but I run my saddle high and my stem short. This is already aggressive for me. What size frame do the two of you usually run?


~57 cm tt


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## vaetuning (Oct 1, 2009)

*Size 580 015-SPL*

Hi Phillippec

I'm very keen on seing your road frame with wheels on, as I'm currently thinking about that size for myself

If you have the possibility to post some pictures of your beatiful frame, with fork and wheels mounted, without it being to much trouble for you, I sure would appreciate it - thanks in advance!!

Cheers


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## robpar (Jan 26, 2008)

stevesbike said:


> it would be nice to decide whether the frame sizes work for you BEFORE wasting their time with MANY emails on design questions...


Well, so you think one has to decide if something works BEFORE you ask?? There is No way I'll make the determination unless I ask all the questions I NEED answers to. Is called customer service and Jenny is great at it.
For other potential buyers, this is good information.
There is no way I would have known about the CAD drawings unless i asked or the BB30 availability or headset stack (which may make the 55cm frame workable for me)
Buying a frame without riding it is a VERY tricky business. I bought two before; wish I had asked more questions...


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## PLAYONIT (Aug 25, 2009)

Dr. Placebo said:


> I'm trying to figure out if I should give in to this frame's good looks. I usually ride a 56 but I run my saddle high and my stem short. This is already aggressive for me. What size frame do the two of you usually run?



50cm ..... but had to get a 51cm


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

robpar said:


> Well, so you think one has to decide if something works BEFORE you ask?? There is No way I'll make the determination unless I ask all the questions I NEED answers to. Is called customer service and Jenny is great at it.
> For other potential buyers, this is good information.
> There is no way I would have known about the CAD drawings unless i asked or the BB30 availability or headset stack (which may make the 55cm frame workable for me)
> Buying a frame without riding it is a VERY tricky business. I bought two before; wish I had asked more questions...


in the era of carbon molds and 4 or 5 frame sizes to choose from, it's not rocket science to figure out if a given frame will work just by looking at effective toptube length.


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## robpar (Jan 26, 2008)

stevesbike said:


> in the era of carbon molds and 4 or 5 frame sizes to choose from, it's not rocket science to figure out if a given frame will work just by looking at effective toptube length.


Well, I strongly disagree; effective top tube "fit" is also related to seat and head angles. Also fit is very dependent on head tube length (for me at least). You can have the same top tube on two bikes but the fit will be different if they have different seat/head angles and head tube lengths.


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## wielracer (Nov 28, 2009)

Nice frame and colors, but i´ve a question about your framesize.
What is de seattube lenght? The seattube itself or the seattube with that extra part on it?


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

robpar said:


> Well, I strongly disagree; effective top tube "fit" is also related to seat and head angles. Also fit is very dependent on head tube length (for me at least). You can have the same top tube on two bikes but the fit will be different if they have different seat/head angles and head tube lengths.


that's not really true. Seat tube angles (STA) differ by at most a few degrees among most road bikes (typically less than a degree). This is equivalent to moving a saddle less than .5cm fore/aft. You can change the virtual STA by almost 10 degrees by moving the seat fore/aft. Differences in STA are virtually meaningless given the range of fore/aft adjustability, different seatpost setback options etc. In terms of head tube length, there's virtually no road bikes of similar top tube lengths that can't be made to have the same virtual head tube length via spacers. Thinking there's something special about minuscule differences in geometry is just another old school bike myth...


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## albertopaz84 (Dec 2, 2009)

Those frames look great. Counting the days to read your review


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## robpar (Jan 26, 2008)

stevesbike said:


> that's not really true. Seat tube angles (STA) differ by at most a few degrees among most road bikes (typically less than a degree). This is equivalent to moving a saddle less than .5cm fore/aft. You can change the virtual STA by almost 10 degrees by moving the seat fore/aft. Differences in STA are virtually meaningless given the range of fore/aft adjustability, different seatpost setback options etc. In terms of head tube length, there's virtually no road bikes of similar top tube lengths that can't be made to have the same virtual head tube length via spacers. Thinking there's something special about minuscule differences in geometry is just another old school bike myth...


Well. i have a bike with a 558 TT and a 155 HT that I can't ride (it kills my back), whereas another bike I have, with a 560 TT with 185 HT, I can ride for hours. Too bad the guy that sold me the first bike sounded too much like you.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

in your case, the difference is about an inch in head tube length - couldn't you add an inch of spacers or change the stem angle?


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## Timbuctoo (Apr 23, 2009)

I wish these guys would do a few 60cm frames for the bigger cyclist. Maybe I should ask them because a 58 would probably be a bit cramped.


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## robpar (Jan 26, 2008)

stevesbike said:


> in your case, the difference is about an inch in head tube length - couldn't you add an inch of spacers or change the stem angle?


Both bikes have already 35mm of spacers below the stem and i ride a 17 degree stem flipped... When I went to have a fitting session, after one year off riding the first bike and i had back and elbow problems, the fitter told me it's a very common mistake. Most people only look at top tube not realizing the relationship of top tube to head tube and the relative position of the handlebars which is related to how one INDIVIDUAL wants to ride. Most carbon steerers only have about 40mm max for spacers allowed and most bikes you buy already assembled have the streerer cut and won't let you achieve that maximum. This was not an issue with my really old bike (quill stem) but with modern bikes, getting the right frame FOR MY BODY is.
I run into a similar problem in furniture design: People may think all chairs sit the same way, all you have to do is to try a bar stool that is 1cm higher and you'll see...

Anyway, this dialog started 'cause i wanted to ask questions to the seller, the seller was gracious enough to answer all of them and you jumped in suggesting i was taking advantage of asking too many questions when i should have known what frame fits me...

I think you're way off. I trust a professional fitter more than you. You're welcome to buy one of these frames if you think it fits you without asking questions...


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

Not usually one to like the looks of a carbon bike, but I really like these frames. Waiting to see the full build. The paint/design is really slick. Understated, but striking.


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## Asmodeus2112 (Aug 5, 2008)

Anybody with an FM015 58cm know what the effective top tude dimension is?


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## asad137 (Jul 29, 2009)

robpar said:


> Both bikes have already 35mm of spacers below the stem and i ride a 17 degree stem flipped...


There's some missing info here. Did you already have the 560/185 bike when you bought the 558/155 bike? Did you just assume it would work or did the previous owner tell you it was close enough?

Asad


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## robpar (Jan 26, 2008)

asad137 said:


> There's some missing info here. Did you already have the 560/185 bike when you bought the 558/155 bike? Did you just assume it would work or did the previous owner tell you it was close enough?
> 
> Asad


 I bought the 558/155 first, based on the salesperson suggestion (at the LBS) that it was close enough... -similar line to stevesbike. A year later, I bought the 560/185 after learning the hard way (BTW, I also have 565/175 Ebay frame, that works fairly well for me). The 558/155 works sometimes for short rides, when it's hot and i feel VERY flexible; it's a lot more aggressive position for me; even though "it's only 1 inch difference"; too aggressive for some of the 50/100 mile rides I do. I'll probably sell it soon...
I don't race and my body can not take a big saddle to bar drop (they're almost even).
The hong fu frames look very nice but look like they are intended for a more aero position; it took some study of the geo and dims for me to arrive to that conclusion. The 58 MIGHT work (567.5/170) but it may be stretching it, so for me isn't worth it....


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## robpar (Jan 26, 2008)

Asmodeus2112 said:


> Anybody with an FM015 58cm know what the effective top tude dimension is?


567.8 mm; 170 mm head tube.. I think... I don't own one but 'cause i asked "too many questions" i was able to get that info. Jenny can send you the CAD file on the frame if you ask...


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

robpar, for $45 you could buy a specialized comp-set stem that is a shim based stem with up to +28 degree rise. I suspect that would result in the ability to replicate the bar height/reach of your 2 bikes (or a ritchey adjustable one). You're on the extreme edge of fit but an adjustable stem would still replicate the setup.


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## robpar (Jan 26, 2008)

stevesbike said:


> robpar, for $45 you could buy a specialized comp-set stem that is a shim based stem with up to +28 degree rise. I suspect that would result in the ability to replicate the bar height/reach of your 2 bikes (or a ritchey adjustable one). You're on the extreme edge of fit but an adjustable stem would still replicate the setup.


... and ritchey makes a 30 degree and torelli makes a 35 degree and dimension makes a 27 and 30 degree and eleven81 makes a 20 degree... it does not change my point.

I stopped riding adjustable stems when i went from my tricycle to a bike


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## Asmodeus2112 (Aug 5, 2008)

robpar said:


> 567.8 mm; 170 mm head tube.. I think... I don't own one but 'cause i asked "too many questions" i was able to get that info. Jenny can send you the CAD file on the frame if you ask...


Thanks, you're right. Jenny sent me the CAD shortly after I posted. :rolleyes5:


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## karlos200 (Dec 21, 2009)

Did you finished mounting the frames?


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## karlos200 (Dec 21, 2009)

Did you finished mounting the frames? Weight?


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## fujio001 (Mar 17, 2007)

How much was the base price of the frame + fork + shipping?


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