# 1st Road Bike Help Needed - Trying Not to Make the Same Mistakes....



## TripleB (Dec 21, 2012)

About 15 years ago I decided I wanted a mountain bike. I did very little research so when I went to my LBS I had no clue as to what I was looking for, what the difference in the components were, what a fair price was for each bicycle, or anything that someone getting ready to fork out good money should know. I ended up with a good price on what turned out to be, in my opinion, a poor bike: Gary Fischer Mamba with Shimano STX RC shifters. The shifts never seemed smooth, the ride seemed to be a bit out of balance, and steering seemed vague.

It is my goal not to go into my new road bike purchase with the same ignorance. Therefore I'm coming to you with several questions.

Background: I'm 45, 6'2", 210 pounds (normally around 190 but surgery kept me off my feet for 6 weeks), will be riding 90% road/10% packed dirt. If I can get more for my money going with a 'road' bike I can use my Gary Fischer for the 10% of off road I do. I am taking up cycling because of microfracture surgery to my left knee - doc says no more tennis or running and suggested I take up cycling. At this time I do not want to spend more than $1,000 and preferably in the $700-$900 range so I'll have money for some bicycle clothing and accessories. I'll be riding in flat, hilly, city, urban, and rural areas. Hopefully I'll eventually be strong enough to ride with my buddies in the Blue Ridge Mountains (about 40 miles away) and up Grandfather Mountain.

Let me preface my questions by saying that the feel/fit of the bike, and in my opinion, the friendliness/helpfulness of the Local Bike Shops are going to be huge factors in determining which bike I go with.

But I want to learn as much as I can (this time) about the different bike options for me and the components before I head into my LBS this time.

1) In my price range it seems the bikes come in two frame materials: Aluminum (A1 Premium/100 Series Alpha/ALUXX grade) and Alloy (A2-SL double butted/GTR hydroformed). What is the difference between the two and will it make a huge difference in my riding? 

2) When looking at the Cassette, do higher numbers typically mean easier climbs up hills? ie: the bikes I'm looking at have 12-25, 12-27, 12-28T, 11-32T, etc. Will the 11-32T climb hills (all other things being equal) easier than the 12-25?

3) Does the brand of the Cassette make a noticeable difference? Offered on the bikes I'm looking at are: Sun Race CSR86, SRAM PG-830, Shimano HG20, Shimano HG50, SRAM PG-950.

4) Shifters/Derailleurs in the various models I'm looking at are: Shimano A070, Shimano 2300, Shimano 2300 STI, Shimano Sora, Shimano Sora STI. Is there a large difference in the quality of these different shifters/derailleurs and would I be able to notice a difference being a novice?

5) As far as forks, the models I'm looking at come with a wide variety of materials: Aluminum, FACT Carbon, Alloy, FC-770 Carbon Integrated, GTR Carbon. Is one recognized as being a lot better than the others?

6) In your opinion is it worth the extra $100 to $250 (depending on brand) to get a better frame, better shifters/derailleurs, better cassette, and better forks?

In looking at the other components they seem to be similar or else they are so different there is no way to compare them.

7) What other components should I look at to see that I'm getting a quality bicycle for the money?

Thank you for your patience and your help. I realize this is a lot to ask of you but I just want to make sure I go into this purchase a little more educated than I was last time.

TripleB


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## Gimme Shoulder (Feb 10, 2004)

You'll want to align yourself with a good bike shop that can walk you through all of these issues, and fit you properly. You should let the forum know your location. There are likely members in your area that know the shops there.

I'll try to answer a couple of your questions.

Aluminum and Alloy are the basically the same in this context. All of these are aluminum alloy. There may be differences in composition, but for our purposes, at this price point, you can consider them basically the same as a frame material. The manufacturers like to put fancy names to them to distinguish their's is somehow special, better, more refined, etc.

Double butting and hydroforming are about how the tubes/frames are made rather than the material. Double or triple butting has been around for decades - it is the practice of thickening the material where tubes abutt each other, while thinning the middle section of the tube. Hydroforming is relatively new, and entails the use of fluid pressure to shape alloy tubes in ways previously not possible.

Ultimately, the feel and efficiency of a frame has as much (or more) to do about the design as it does the material. So two different designs with the exact same material will feel and perform differently. There's no way around it - you have to ride the bikes and make a choice based on which one makes you smile the most.

Yes, the higher the numbers on the cassettes, the lower the gearing, and the easier they will climb. But you have to consider this along with the front ring sizes when comparing bikes. Again, a good shop can walk you through this.

My opinion has always been to buy the frame first (fit and feel) and the components second. I think its always good advise to spend a little more on the frame than you think you can/should. At your price point, a few hundred bucks can make a huge difference.


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## TripleB (Dec 21, 2012)

Gimme Shoulder said:


> My opinion has always been to buy the frame first (fit and feel) and the components second. I think its always good advise to spend a little more on the frame than you think you can/should. At your price point, a few hundred bucks can make a huge difference.


_*Thank you very much for taking the time to respond to my questions The information helped a great deal.

I live in Hickory, North Carolina (about 45 miles NW of Charlotte). The most recommended LBS in my area are Luna Cycles (Fuji/Specialized), Rock n Road Bikes (Trek), Cyclewright (GT), and Clarks Bike Center (GT/Giant). The first 2 come highly recommended from several riders I know. I'm sure there are a great number of LBS in Charlotte but I'd rather stick a little closer to home.

IYO, once I become an "intermediate cyclist" will I be able to tell the difference in the quality of components? ie: between the Shimano 2300 and the Shimano Sora STI shifters; between the aluminum forks and carbon forks; between the HG-20 cassetter and the SRAM PG-950 cassette; etc.

Again, I appreciate your time! 

TripleB*_


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## gte105u (Aug 12, 2012)

Something to keep in mind along with the shifter quality is the number of gears it can use. It also matters what year you are talking about. If a shop has a leftover older Sora shifters, it used a brake lever and thumb lever shifting style. Some people like this, others hate it. It makes shifting from the hoods tough IMO. This is also the style of shifting 2300 uses. The new Sora uses a brake lever and pabble system like Tiagra and above. Sora is a 9 cog cassette while 2300 is 8. Sora may use a double or triple up front, 2300 typically triple from what I have seen.

Any shifter, if the derailleurs are tuned right, will basically do its job. Quality of its parts (see longevity), feel of the shift, number of gears, ergonomics of its shape, etc. are all what you pay for as you increase in price and quality. Is it possible that as you get more experienced you will want to upgrade... very possibly. But then again maybe not. If it is a difference of the cost-benefit of spending more, at the price range you are at you get pretty big returns over relatively small initial investments. As bikes get over $1,000, there is diminishing returns in jumps of $100 or so, but under $1,000 the returns are pretty big.

Something to keep in mind is the wider the cassette spread, the more terrain you can tackle well but the less you can attack any one great. By that I mean that finding that "sweet spot" in your cadence will be more difficult. A 32 teeth cassette will make the climb much easier, but you may find it hard to go between spinning very fast vs. bogging down on a slight down/up hill. As was said, a local bike shop and test riding will help with this.

Personally, I like GT bikes. I also love my Specialized. I think you get a lot of bike for your money with GT, so I would give them a hard look. I have heard similar from Fuji. I am not knocking Trek or Giant, just don't have the first-hand experience. If it were me buying, I would not want to go lower than current Sora shifters. 2300 with a triple (3x8=24) will probably be fine but a lot of people don't like a tripe (I hated it and never used the Granny gear). I want to be able to fully shift from the drops which is why I said current Sora or above. 

BTW, that is something you didn't really talk about but will be a big factor is a double vs. triple crank. As was said, I would not worry as much about the frame material and component quality... they are all more-or-less in league. I would worry about what fits your goals/desires/riding style and how it feels.


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## TripleB (Dec 21, 2012)

gte105u said:


> Personally, I like GT bikes. I also love my Specialized. I think you get a lot of bike for your money with GT, so I would give them a hard look. I have heard similar from Fuji. I am not knocking Trek or Giant, just don't have the first-hand experience. If it were me buying, I would not want to go lower than current Sora shifters. 2300 with a triple (3x8=24) will probably be fine but a lot of people don't like a tripe (I hated it and never used the Granny gear). I want to be able to fully shift from the drops which is why I said current Sora or above.
> 
> BTW, that is something you didn't really talk about but will be a big factor is a double vs. triple crank. As was said, I would not worry as much about the frame material and component quality... they are all more-or-less in league. I would worry about what fits your goals/desires/riding style and how it feels.


_*Thank you for taking the time to respond and all the excellent information you gave.

In seeing what brands the highly recommended bike shops in my area carry, the components that you get for the price from each brand of bike, and (even though it shouldn't be important) the looks of the bikes that I can afford, I really like the Fuji (Sportif 1.7C/1.5C/1.3C), the GT (GTR Series 5/GTR Series 4), and the Specialized (Allez Sport Compact).

I'm not really sure what I'm looking for as far as the crank is concerned, but the bikes I'm looking at have one of the following: Shimano 2300 Compact 50/34, FSA Tempo compact 9 speed 50/34, Forged Alloy 50/34, Vuelta Corsa Compact 50/34, FSA Vero Compact 50/34.

Everyone here is amazing. I was afraid I would get 'criticized' for putting up so many newbie questions in one post here but you all have been great so far. I appreciate your patience!!!

TripleB *_


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## Mr_Clean (Feb 12, 2012)

Compact cranks are good for climbing and is easier on the knees. Standrad cranks are good for stronger riders who like to sprint. Cycling is good rehab, and the compact would suit you well. Consider a compact crank with a 11-25 or 12-27 cassette for your type of riding. As for the cassette, you are correct. The "higher" the count, the easier it is to pedal uphill. Whatever you choose, make sure your shop sorts you out fit wise. The rest of the adjustments will take time as your body adapts. Get the best bike you could find from the best shop that has great service. Good luck!


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## TripleB (Dec 21, 2012)

Mr_Clean said:


> Compact cranks are good for climbing and is easier on the knees. Cycling is good rehab, and the compact would suit you well. Consider a compact crank with a 11-25 or 12-27 cassette for your type of riding. Whatever you choose, make sure your shop sorts you out fit wise. The rest of the adjustments will take time as your body adapts. Get the best bike you could find from the best shop that has great service. Good luck!


_*Thank you for the help. Easy on the knees is definitely what I need. I went to physical therapy today and they started to build strength in my left knee...I didn't realize how weak it really got after surgery and 6 weeks off of it.

If I plan to do some riding in the mountains of NC, and even up to Grandfather Mountain (elevation 5,945'), do you feel the 12-27 will be fine. If I decide I like the Fuji bike best, will the 11-32T be OK as well?

I've made a note to myself to make sure I ask about fitting before I decide on a bike. I'm trying to make a list of all the things I need to ask about when I go to each LBS.

Thanks again for all your help.

TripleB*_


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## OWSI (Mar 11, 2009)

tHave you test rode any of these bikes?
You say you don't want to repeat the mistakes that you made buying your Gary Fisher, so analyze what truely was a "mistake". Where did the Mamba fit into the Gary Fisher lineup 15 years ago? Was it in the low end of the product line? I don't know about that long ago, but if I recall correctly in more recent years it was at the low-end of the line. Was it really the right type of bike for your needs.
With those questions, ask yourself what type of "road bike" would best meet your needs.... Sport (race geometry), Endurance (more relaxed geometry) or Touring. A touring bike may fit your needs well. They generally have the gearing to handle hills, except wider tires, which may work on the packed dirt paths. (really depands on your diffinition of "packed dirt path".) If you want smoother shifting, you may find that you have to move up a little on the price point, but maybe not. Go to your LBS and take some test rides on different styles of "road" bikes, so you get a feel for the diffences in the types. Of course the LBS should make sure it is the correct size and fit for you. The LBS should be able to help you with selecting the best gearing for the local area and your level of fitness. While you can certainly compare components on paper, there is nothing like a test ride. I have found there is a noticable difference in the feel of shifting as you move up a step or two in the line, but at some point the differences become less noticable for a recreational rider. Take the test rides, make some notes, go home think about it, go and test ride your top 3 choices again. Don't be in a rush, but don't fall into the trap of over analyzing it either.


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## gte105u (Aug 12, 2012)

TripleB said:


> _*Thank you for taking the time to respond and all the excellent information you gave.
> 
> In seeing what brands the highly recommended bike shops in my area carry, the components that you get for the price from each brand of bike, and (even though it shouldn't be important) the looks of the bikes that I can afford, I really like the Fuji (Sportif 1.7C/1.5C/1.3C), the GT (GTR Series 5/GTR Series 4), and the Specialized (Allez Sport Compact).
> 
> ...


All of those are compact double cranks. That is good in the sense you will not need to decide which is best. A larger range in cassette makes up for the fact that a double has less overall gear selection range than a triple. If your bike fitness level is low and you plan on doing a lot of hills then more gear range maybe is better. Another thing to keep in mind is cassette is fairly cheap at the levels your are shopping at. If you find the gearing is not right it is a simple change to swap it out. A lot of people keep different ones around so they can swap out if a ride will be a certain terrain. Point being don't ket the cassette be the deciding factor. Also depending on the rear derailleur cage length, a bike using a 32 tooth cog will likely work with smaller cassettes but a 25 tooth may not work with a 32. There is a lot more to it, but that is probably beyond what you need to worry about now.

I have a Specialized Allez as you can see from my signature. I really love it, but I wanted an aggressive bike. Be careful to learn about geometries and their intended uses. The Allez line is inspired by the Tarmac race line. A Sectur may be more of a fit you are looking for. It is nuances like these that the LBS can really help with.

As for the shops themselves, I know you said you want to stay in town, but do yourself a favor and at least check out Performancebike.com a little. They have a local location in Charlotte. You may be able to try some bikes out there and then order one to ship to them. It can combine the help of a LBS with some of the savings and selection of shopping online. They also sell Fuji and GT. If nothing else if you do decide on one of those two brands from a local shop it gives you a basis to negotiate from. Good luck, and have fun. Remember at some point your best way to learn is make some calls, go to some shops, and ultimately ride some bikes.


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## heybrady (Jul 3, 2011)

Go into your LBS and see what is in the lineup with a carbon fork, aluminum frame, and Tiagra shifters. (New Sora has gone away from thumb shifters, but I have not seen much on here on the topic). Above bike will be a good place to start, and a shop will get you fit into something appropriate, don't focus too much on brand. At that price, most frames are similar. 

If you have a Performance, the above bike should be about $700-$800 bought this time of year. Could be in the $1000 range for Spec, Trek, Giant, etc.


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## yoshirama (Oct 18, 2012)

Also with keep in mind while having a larger range in a cassette lets you handle hills better, it also means there's a bigger jump between gears. I got a 12-30T to go with my 50-42-30 crankset. If I could go back in time, I wish i would have asked the LBS to swap out for something closer to a 12-23 at the time of purchase. My teeth goes 12,13,14,15,17,19,21,24,27,30. The jump from 15 to 17 teeth feels pretty large, and the lack of a 16T cog just drives me nuts. I really don't need that 30 tooth top end since I already have a granny gear on my triple crank.


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## SeaWolf (May 12, 2012)

TripleB said:


> _*Thank you for the help. Easy on the knees is definitely what I need. I went to physical therapy today and they started to build strength in my left knee...I didn't realize how weak it really got after surgery and 6 weeks off of it.
> 
> If I plan to do some riding in the mountains of NC, and even up to Grandfather Mountain (elevation 5,945'), do you feel the 12-27 will be fine. If I decide I like the Fuji bike best, will the 11-32T be OK as well?
> 
> TripleB*_


A 50/34 Compact Crank with the 11-32T Rear Cassette is about as knee friendly as you can get for hill climbing. The thing you give up is that there is a higher jump (or cadence change) when you shift between gears. Chances are you would not even notice it if you are just starting out. For a bigger rider gravity rules the climbs. The steeper the grade the harder it gets for a big guy. The 32 on a 11-32 would allow you to tackle the steepest of climbs. A smaller person may tell you a 25 or 28 is all you need, gravity is on their side. If you want to do hills with a bad knee at 210, look at the 11-32.


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## TripleB (Dec 21, 2012)

OWSI said:


> tHave you test rode any of these bikes?
> You say you don't want to repeat the mistakes that you made buying your Gary Fisher, so analyze what truely was a "mistake". Was it really the right type of bike for your needs.
> With those questions, ask yourself what type of "road bike" would best meet your needs.... Sport (race geometry), Endurance (more relaxed geometry) or Touring. Take the test rides, make some notes, go home think about it, go and test ride your top 3 choices again. Don't be in a rush, but don't fall into the trap of over analyzing it either.


_*I haven't yet tried any of these bikes. I've only been walking (after 6 weeks of no weight on my left leg) for 2 weeks now. I though now might be a good time to start the research process while I'm working to get strength back in my left leg.

I think my mistakes with the Fischer was that I went too cheap (around $450 if I remember correctly), I had no clue as to all the bikes that were out there (only looked at one LBS), and I didn't know what quality components were. I was totally unprepared when I went looking. In hindsight I don't believe I bought the right type of bike. I had plans of doing mountain biking but as it turns out I think I've only had it off the road once.

I'm looking at Endurance bikes and believe, after a lot of reading, that it is what will best suit my needs. But again, I will be talking to several LBS in the area to see if they agree.

Thanks for the advice.

*_


SeaWolf said:


> A 50/34 Compact Crank with the 11-32T Rear Cassette is about as knee friendly as you can get for hill climbing. A smaller person may tell you a 25 or 28 is all you need, gravity is on their side. If you want to do hills with a bad knee at 210, look at the 11-32.


*Thank you for this information. Hopefully one day I'll be back to 185 and my knee will be as strong as it ever was, but right now I'm doing everthing to protect it from damage. Doc said if I don't do the right things I'll be back in 6 months having it done all over again...until I get to 55 when he said he would then do total knee replacement. 

Thanks for all the infomation so far.

TripleB*


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## TripleB (Dec 21, 2012)

gte105u said:


> All of those are compact double cranks. That is good in the sense you will not need to decide which is best. If your bike fitness level is low and you plan on doing a lot of hills then more gear range maybe is better. Point being don't ket the cassette be the deciding factor.
> I have a Specialized Allez as you can see from my signature. I really love it, but I wanted an aggressive bike. Be careful to learn about geometries and their intended uses. The Allez line is inspired by the Tarmac race line. A Sectur may be more of a fit you are looking for. It is nuances like these that the LBS can really help with.


_*That's probably a good thing...the fewer decisions the better right now - as long as I end up with a good bike for the money.

Right now my fitness level is very low...amazing how much muscle mass you lose when not using a body part for 6 weeks.

Yea, I want to eventually be able to keep up with my younger riders, but right now knee safety and comfort are my two main concerns.

Thanks, I'll take a look at that line...I see they have some Secteur that barely fall in my price range (Compact, Triple, Sport Compact). Again, looks like that $160 to upgrade from 2300 to Sora. What I do find unusual is that the Compact and the Sport Compact have a double crankset and the Triple (which is priced in between the two) has a Triple. Other bikes I've looked at seemed to save the triple for the higher price model.

*_


heybrady said:


> Above bike will be a good place to start, and a shop will get you fit into something appropriate, don't focus too much on brand. At that price, most frames are similar.
> 
> If you have a Performance, the above bike should be about $700-$800 bought this time of year. Could be in the $1000 range for Spec, Trek, Giant, etc.


_*Above bike...are you referring to the Allez? I'll look at making the trip to Charlotte to check Performance out.

Thanks again for everyone's help. I am learning so much!!!!

TripleB*_


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## MPov (Oct 22, 2010)

TripleB said:


> _*Thank you for this information. Hopefully one day I'll be back to 185 and my knee will be as strong as it ever was, but right now I'm doing everthing to protect it from damage. Doc said if I don't do the right things I'll be back in 6 months having it done all over again...until I get to 55 when he said he would then do total knee replacement.
> 
> Thanks for all the infomation so far.
> 
> TripleB*_


_*

I remember your post from a few weeks ago. Glad you are pursuing a road bike.

IMHO 185 is still gravity challenged , but this is coming from someone who weighs around 140. My biggest gear on the cassette is a 28 (34 small on the crank) and that's about the minimum requirement for me. Any smaller and I think I would have difficulty with some of this hills in my area. If you have rehabilitating knees the 32 is a good option. As others noted you can always change the cassette later.

You've gotten some good advice so far. The only thing I would add would be to give serious consideration to a carbon fork. It can make a noticeable difference in smoothing out the ride.*_


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

GT road bikes have a fairly aggressive geometry. The 3, 4 and 5 frames are slightly less aggressive than the 2, in the GTR alloy series.


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## TripleB (Dec 21, 2012)

MPov said:


> I remember your post from a few weeks ago. Glad you are pursuing a road bike.
> 
> IMHO 185 is still gravity challenged , but this is coming from someone who weighs around 140. My biggest gear on the cassette is a 28 (34 small on the crank) and that's about the minimum requirement for me. Any smaller and I think I would have difficulty with some of this hills in my area. If you have rehabilitating knees the 32 is a good option. As others noted you can always change the cassette later.
> 
> You've gotten some good advice so far. The only thing I would add would be to give serious consideration to a carbon fork. It can make a noticeable difference in smoothing out the ride.


_*Yea, I'm thinking it will be my best option for the riding I'm going to be doing and the people I will be riding with the majority of the time.

Crazy thing is...twice I've really lost a lot of weight and gotten down to around 170 (6'2"), all proud of myself, and people started asking me if I was sick because I looked anorexic 

So I guess the 12-25 bikes are something I might should avoid if I'm looking for a smoother ride and easier on my knees?

Thanks for the info on the carbon fork...seems as though a lot of the Specialized Secteur bikes (Compact/Triple/Sport Compact), the Specialized Allez Sport Compact, the GT GTR Series 4, the Trek 1.2, and the Fuji Sportifs (1.5C/1.7C) come with carbon forks.

Thanks again for all the help!!!

TripleB *_


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

Just to clarify, all of the GTR series bikes from GT have carbon fork blades. The GTR 2 also has a carbon steerer, as opposed to alloy on the lower priced models.


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## TripleB (Dec 21, 2012)

mpre53 said:


> Just to clarify, all of the GTR series bikes from GT have carbon fork blades. The GTR 2 also has a carbon steerer, as opposed to alloy on the lower priced models.


Sorry about that...you are definitely correct. I only had info on the GTR5 and GTR4 (since they are the only two under my $1000 budget) and I overlooked that info on the GTR5...thank you!

TripleB


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## MPov (Oct 22, 2010)

TripleB said:


> _*So I guess the 12-25 bikes are something I might should avoid if I'm looking for a smoother ride and easier on my knees?
> 
> 
> 
> TripleB *_


If, after you test ride a bunch of bikes, the one you like best tops out at 25, don't let that stop you. You should be able to work a deal with the LBS to swap out the cassette for one with a larger cog. Cost of a swap (parts and labor) should be less than $100 even if you just walked in off the street. They may be willing to do it for free (or a substantial discount) just to get the sale. The only issue would be if the rear derailluer can't handle it (which they should be able to tell you).


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## Budajez19 (Oct 25, 2012)

I just bought my first Road Bike (Trek 1.2) from my LBS. I did a lot of research and bike shop shopping. After the 2 months of searching I chose the LBS closest to my house because they seemed the most knowledgable and seemed like they cared more. After purchasing my bike the salesman adjusted the handlebars, seat, etc. to what he felt was right for me. My question is what is considered a "fitting?" I was under the assumption that they were going to put me up on the podium with the trainer and fit me for the bike. They told me that it would be an additional $150 for 90 minutes with a certified fitter if I wanted to do that but fitting me by eyeballing (I call it guessing) is what they do for an initial fitting. My question is, is this normal? If not what would be a credible initial fitting?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Budajez19 said:


> I just bought my first Road Bike (Trek 1.2) from my LBS. I did a lot of research and bike shop shopping. After the 2 months of searching I chose the LBS closest to my house because they seemed the most knowledgable and seemed like they cared more. After purchasing my bike the salesman adjusted the handlebars, seat, etc. to what he felt was right for me. *My question is what is considered a "fitting?" * I was under the assumption that they were going to put me up on the podium with the trainer and fit me for the bike. They told me that it would be an additional $150 for 90 minutes with a certified fitter if I wanted to do that but fitting me by eyeballing (I call it guessing) is what they do for an initial fitting. *My question is, is this normal? If not what would be a credible initial fitting?*


You can ask, but the 90 minute, $150 fitting is likely a pro fit. Generally speaking, unless you're buying a high end/ custom bike, they aren't included in the bike purchase. A standard fitting is, and below is my general overview of a *good* standard fitting. 

Some shops 'standard fits' are better than others, but not being there/ seeing yours done, we can't really judge it. I will say that there is a degree of 'eyeballing' (I'd call it observing/ assessing) with any fitting, so yours wasn't necessarily bad or lacking. The true test is if you're comfortable riding your bike. If so, the fitter did his job. 

A general overview (meaning, some steps are optional and the sequence may vary some)... take some measurements, check flexibility, ask questions about your cycling experiences/ fitness/ type of riding, then mount the bike on a stationary trainer, install the pedals and cleats.

Once you're positioned they'll check/ set saddle height, fore/ aft, tilt (readjusting as necessary) and adjust the cleat positions as needed. Saddle (re)adjustments may follow. They'll then look to reach, then drop, making any needed changes to stem length/ angle and spacer setup, based both on their observations and your input.

Because static fits can only serve as an initial (or starting point) test rides generally follow, with any needed tweaks to fit made after the ride, based on your input. Another ride may follow with more tweaks, or the fitter will send you on your way advising you to ride for awhile, returning if there are any problem areas noted.

All told, this process can take 45 minutes to one hour plus.


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## SeaWolf (May 12, 2012)

"*So I guess the 12-25 bikes are something I might should avoid if I'm looking for a smoother ride and easier on my knees?"

If you buy a bike with a 11-32, it will come with a long cage RD. If at a later time you want to go to a 12-25, the long cage will still work. There is a minimal cost to change the cassette. To go the opposite way you would need to buy a long cage RD and probably a new chain (as it would be too short on a stock 12-25). Way cheaper to go with the bigger cassette if you want to change in the future.*


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

SeaWolf said:


> If you buy a bike with a 11-32, it will come with a long cage RD. If at a later time you want to go to a 12-25, the long cage will still work. There is a minimal cost to change the cassette. To go the opposite way you would need to buy a long cage RD and probably a new chain (as it would be too short on a stock 12-25). Way cheaper to go with the bigger cassette if you want to change in the future.


You're confusing things. A long(er) cage RD doesn't increase max cog capacity, it increases total tooth capacity and front chainwheel differences.

Example:
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/t...0A/SI-5XN0A-001-Eng_v1_m56577569830746860.pdf

You'll see that the specs for both the SS and GS for largest sprocket are the same (30T), but total capacity and front chainwheel differences do change.

The OP should consult his LBS on the gearing issue. With his input re: fitness and their knowledge of the local terrain, they should be able to advise him on 'appropriate' gearing. 

There's a certain stigma attached to running a triple, but IMO it does offer some distinct advantages (tighter/ lower gearing) which may benefit the OP. As was stated, cassettes are easily (and relatively cheaply) swapped out.


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## TripleB (Dec 21, 2012)

Manufacturers really know what they're doing when it comes to price points. When I take a look at the bikes that seem to have better than the norm components (ie: Shimano 2300), it seems every one of them falls just slightly under the $1,000 mark!!!

_*On paper*_, the ones under $1,000 that seem to really stand out to me are (with some basic info):

Fuji Sportif 1.3C ($889): carbon fork, Shimano Sora Shifters, Shimano Sora Front Derailleur, Shimano Tiagra Rear Derailleur, SRAM PG950 Cassette, 11-30

Specialized Secteur Sport Compact ($990): carbon fork, Shimano Sora STI Shifters, Shimano Sora Front Derailleur, Shimano Sora Rear Derailleur, FSA Tempo Crank, Shimano HG50 Cassette, 11-30

Specialized Allez Sport Compact ($940): carbon fork, Shimano Sora STI Shifters, Shimano Sora Front Derailleur, Shimano Sora Rear Derailleur, FSA Tempo Crank, Shimano HG50 Cassette, 12-27

GT GTR 4 ($890): carbon fork, Microshift R92 shifters, Microshift R729 Front Derailleur, Shimano R3400 Rear Derailleur, SRAM PG950 Cassette, 11-26

GT Corsa 2.0 ($940): Microshift R92 shifters, Microshift R729 Front Derailleur, Shimano R3400 Rear Derailleur, SRAM PG950 Cassette, 12-26

Trek 1.2 ($990): carbon fork, Shimano Sora STI shifters, Shimano Sora Front Derailleur, Shimnao Sor Rear Derailleur, SRAM PG950 Cassette, 11-28

Giant Defy 3 ($915): Shimano Sora shifters, Shimano Sora Front Derailleur, Shimano Sora Rear Derailleur, Shimano HG50 Cassette, 12-27

I'm really looking forward to taking them out for a test ride in the future---if I can just continue to get strength back in my left leg. Who knew 6 weeks with no weigh on your leg due to knee surgery would leave it so weak.

Again, thank you for all the input.

TripleB


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## MPov (Oct 22, 2010)

Those are all good choices. You've just got to go out and ride them.


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## Budajez19 (Oct 25, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> You can ask, but the 90 minute, $150 fitting is likely a pro fit. Generally speaking, unless you're buying a high end/ custom bike, they aren't included in the bike purchase. A standard fitting is, and below is my general overview of a *good* standard fitting.
> 
> Some shops 'standard fits' are better than others, but not being there/ seeing yours done, we can't really judge it. I will say that there is a degree of 'eyeballing' (I'd call it observing/ assessing) with any fitting, so yours wasn't necessarily bad or lacking. The true test is if you're comfortable riding your bike. If so, the fitter did his job.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the input. I guess in a way he did do most of this just without putting me on the trainer. The guy set up everything the way he thought it should be and then let me take it for a test ride. He watched me ride around the block and felt everything was where it needed to be. The only thing he didn't do was set up my cleats on my shoes, he left that for me to do and just told me to make sure they are under the balls of my feet.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Budajez19 said:


> Thanks for the input. I guess in a way he did do most of this just without putting me on the trainer. The guy set up everything the way he thought it should be and then let me take it for a test ride. He watched me ride around the block and felt everything was where it needed to be. The only thing he didn't do was set up my cleats on my shoes, he left that for me to do and just told me to make sure they are under the balls of my feet.


The dynamic aspect of the fitting (watching you ride) was good, but I think a static fitting done with the bike mounted on the trainer is preferable to 'winging it'. That sounds more critical (of him) than I mean, because he did follow up with assessing your fit during the test ride.

Still, if the bottom line is if you're comfortable on the bike, he did his job. You'll likely need tweaks along the way, so pay attention to how you feel on the bike. Form goes hand in hand with good fit, so be aware of yours. Some pointers below.

Re: the cleat set up, if you purchased the shoes/ pedals from the LBS, I think they should have done the set up. If not, it's at their discretion.

If you opt to do the cleat set up yourself, here's a link with some basic info:
Bike Fit Fitting A Bicycle Seat Adjustment Height Reach Tips by Jim Langley
Cleat set up is #3.

Be aware that the cleat adjustment will likely mean you'll also need to make some minor saddle adjustments, so consider paying a nominal charge and having a LBS do that. 

Form related pointers:
- keep your upper torso relaxed, arms slightly bent
- change hand position _frequently_ (tops, bends, hoods, drops...)
- keep a slightly loose grip on the bars (avoid the 'death grip')
- keep forearms and hands aligned (don't twist at the wrist - refer to pic below)
- on occasion, lift off the saddle to minimize pressure.
- consider good quality gel gloves
- I usually recommend good quality bar tape, but your bike being new, it should already be installed.
View attachment 274293


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

TripleB said:


> Manufacturers really know what they're doing when it comes to price points. When I take a look at the bikes that seem to have better than the norm components (ie: Shimano 2300), it seems every one of them falls just slightly under the $1,000 mark!!!
> 
> _*On paper*_, the ones under $1,000 that seem to really stand out to me are (with some basic info):
> 
> ...


Bear in mind that most dealers will negotiate down from MSRP. You might be able to get a bike with a Tiagra group for under a grand. Especially one left over from the last model year.


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## jazzbolicious (Oct 12, 2011)

Get a Tiagra or 105 bike from last year. For your first bike, find one on sale/clearance! If you shop around, you can usually get a bike 30-40% off retail, which would bring you into the 1300-1400 MSRP range of choices. This is a big step up from the sub-1000 range you're looking at. Seriously, be patient and you'll find a great deal out there.


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## TripleB (Dec 21, 2012)

Budajez19 said:


> The only thing he didn't do was set up my cleats on my shoes, he left that for me to do and just told me to make sure they are under the balls of my feet.


_Oh my....you have to have special shoes to ride??? I may be getting over my head with Cycling becoming my sports outlet...so many things to know and to purchase.

When I played tennis (BS: before surgery) all I needed was a racquet and a can of balls...any clothes will do and almost any tennis shoe would do. When I ran (BS: before surgery) all I needed was a pair of running shoes.

So many things to consider and to purchase with cycling. I think I'll put all those decisions off until I get ready to purchase a bike. I'm going to start making a list though: shorts, top, shoes, cleats, speedometer/computer, tool set, bike 'bag', mini air pump, tire lever, spare tire, etc. :mad2: Maybe I'll just take up table tennis .

TripleB_


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

TripleB said:


> _Oh my....*you have to have* special shoes to ride??? I may be getting over my head with Cycling becoming my sports outlet...so many things to know and to purchase.
> TripleB_


You don't _have to have_ special shoes (or pedals or cycling apparel, etc.) you can use platform pedals and sneakers. You can wear shorts and a tee shirt. All those things make cycling more enjoyable/ comfortable (and expensive), but aren't necessary/ needed. 

One thing at a time, so for now concentrate on the bike, then a helmet (that IS necessary), saddle bag and tire change kit.


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## craig_d (Dec 21, 2012)

I just went through this process, and my list of potential bikes matches yours almost bike for bike.

I'll just add .. Fuji Roubaix 3.0 .. If you're going to check out Performance Bike anyhow, make sure to take a look at their "Performance Exclusive" model. For an extra $50 ($850 total) you get upgraded Tiagra components. 

I test rode probably 8-10 diffferent bikes, and researched for months. I found the Roubaix to satisfy all of my needs, and my budget. And buying from pefrmance comes with free lifetime adjustments, something my other LBS wanted to charge me an extra $80 for.


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## TripleB (Dec 21, 2012)

mpre53 said:


> Bear in mind that most dealers will negotiate down from MSRP. You might be able to get a bike with a Tiagra group for under a grand. Especially one left over from the last model year.


*I'm hoping they will...money is pretty tight right considering the money I forked out for my surgery...even with insurance the cost wasn't easy to swallow. Yea, the only Tiagra I see mentioned in the bikes I'm looking at is the Rear Derailleur on the Fuji Sportif 1.3.

*


jazzbolicious said:


> Get a Tiagra or 105 bike from last year. For your first bike, find one on sale/clearance! If you shop around, you can usually get a bike 30-40% off retail, which would bring you into the 1300-1400 MSRP range of choices. This is a big step up from the sub-1000 range you're looking at. Seriously, be patient and you'll find a great deal out there.


_*To be honest, I'm hoping I can find one of the bikes I mentioned at 30-40% off. When I started this venture my max was around $750 but I pushed it up in order go a step above the Shimano 2300. If I could find one of the bikes I mentioned for 25-30% off I would be ecstatic...then I would actually have money to purchase the extras - like a helmet . 

Due to the cost of my surgery, increased cost of auto insurance (added a 16 year old daughter on in October), a new car (gave my daughter my old one), a 5 year old son starting in sports, and the fact that being a teacher my salary isn't big to start with, my funds are extremely tight. I'm even looking to sell off some of my gold and some of my tennis racquets to help fund my bike purchase.

So my limit is really being stretched to spend up to $1,000 including the bike, a helmet, clothes, pump, tube, took kit, and the other needed items. 

*_


PJ352 said:


> One thing at a time, so for now concentrate on the bike, then a helmet (that IS necessary), saddle bag and tire change kit.


_*Sounds like a brilliant plan to me!!!

TripleB*_


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

Since you mentioned the GTR 4, the 3 lists for $1050, and I'd be shocked if you couldn't get it for around $900 or slightly under.

Most bikes under $1000 will come with platform pedals, and perhaps nylon or plastic toe clips without straps. You can certainly use those with any footwear, until you feel the need to get cycling shoes and clipless pedals---if you ever do.


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## thelowend (Oct 28, 2012)

Just a word of advice on clothing... Try to find this that are functionally similar to a cycling specific piece. You don't absolutely need a cycling specific jacket. Just find a nice warm windbreaker. The difference between a $30 jersey and a $100 isn't that great but you'll notice the difference between a cheap and an expensive bib pant/short. I try to make sure my gear that makes contact with the bike (gloves, behind shoes/cleats) are all up to snuff. Numb toes from bad shoes or raw hands will kill a ride instantly. 
Ebay is your friend too. In the past month, I've seen tons of people off loading last summer's stuff for awfully good prices. Just avoid overseas stuff. I bought a couple pieces from China out of desperation and they didn't last long... 

Happy riding!


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## Social Climber (Jan 16, 2013)

I would recommend a decent pair of cycling shorts. Other than that you really don't need the shoes, jerseys, etc. to start out.


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## heybrady (Jul 3, 2011)

If you buy from performance, join their "club". It is $20 or $30 but you get a 10% store credit back on any purchase. So if you buy a $900 bike, you will get $90 back in credit. Will cover cost of most accessories, or at least most of them. Remember too, all helmets pass the same certification tests. The $$$ may have more vents, etc, but a helmet from Target or Dicks will protect your knoggin just the same and likely be quite a bit less $$$


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## thelowend (Oct 28, 2012)

heybrady said:


> If you buy from performance, join their "club". It is $20 or $30 but you get a 10% store credit back on any purchase. So if you buy a $900 bike, you will get $90 back in credit. Will cover cost of most accessories, or at least most of them. Remember too, all helmets pass the same certification tests. The $$$ may have more vents, etc, but a helmet from Target or Dicks will protect your knoggin just the same and likely be quite a bit less $$$


The performance bike club is totally worth it. They almost always have some kind of discount deal going on so you will be able to get what you need for less.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

TripleB said:


> _Oh my....you have to have special shoes to ride??? I may be getting over my head with Cycling becoming my sports outlet...so many things to know and to purchase.
> 
> When I played tennis (BS: before surgery) all I needed was a racquet and a can of balls...any clothes will do and almost any tennis shoe would do. When I ran (BS: before surgery) all I needed was a pair of running shoes.
> 
> ...


As PJ said, you don't need that stuff, but some of it helps.

A helmet, you need, other than that. Also it does not need to be a roadie helmet. I used my old mountain bike one my first season and have debated using my skiing one this winter. 

Next is a saddle bag, spare tube, tire levers, mini tool and mini pump. You do not want to be stranded in case of a flat.

Shorts help too. But they do not have to be expensive. I really liked the cheap Canari ones from Sports Authority until I got some decent ones. Rode 80+ miles in them. Same with a cheap pair from Modell's. Now I can tell the difference but that is just being spoiled. Certainly not a necessity. You can find shorts for $20-25.

Jersey. Not needed. Pockets are nice though, especially for longer rides or if you do not get the saddle bag. An old fannie bag/waist pack would do. I started off with a Champion T-Shirt from Target for $10. Whatever you do, buy it tight. FWIW, you can get a jersey for around $20 if you keep your eye out. Don't over buy them, they accumulate. I think I have as many as I do dress shirts now. 

Shoes/pedals. I would start with flat pedals and a pair of fairly stiff athletic shoes. I had a pair of weight lifting shoes that were good for this. It will get you used to riding before you need to learn clipping in and out. Road shoes help but probably a step #2. One thing, if wearing shoes with laces, tuck them in, especially the left foot. Got one stuck in the gears once. I would rather go down unclipping while stopped then at 20 mph with a lace clogging my gears (fortunately it ripped and I got loose).


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