# crazy bright bike lights



## dave66 (Jan 3, 2006)

singletrack night riding - absolutely, i get it - they are needed.
but in my opinion, and as a 25 year bike commuter, these are at best a nuisance, at worst a hazard in the urban /suburban commute environment. it is startign to be dark for most people's ride homes and i know you are proud of your new mega lumen lights, but if you really need those to be see [you certainly dont to be seen] then perhaps you should find other options because blinding the other cyclists coming the other way on the road / trail is inconsiderate.
cars have high beams that are to be dimmed when meeting oncoming traffic and not used at all in the city. cyclists should start to adopt similar habits now that such powerful and affordable lights are available to us.
I am sure i will hear 'but i ride a long unlit rail trail/dirt road/rural road and need these lights for safety'. you bet - i get it, and i have done that commute as well and i get it. this is not directed to you.
if you ride an area with street lights - yes this is for you 
thoughts?


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Yeah, get some sunglasses ...

I have a Magic Shine light I bought 3 years ago. It claims to be 900 lumens. I'd bet it's closer to 600-700. It's the lowest rated light they sell. At any rate, it's a sufficient light for my 17 mile commute home in the dark on a MUT. About half the MUT is partially lighted, so I run it at medium. When I get to the unlit part of the trail, which is really dark, I turn it to full. The trail is dark and deer occasionally meander across it. Plus, at one point I go down a long hill and don't really want to ride my brakes. If the light had a higher setting, I'd probably use it in that part of the trail. 

Last night I'm riding home with it on medium and some yells at me to turn that light down. Another winces -- holding his arm across is face -- like I'm burning his eyeballs out. It's not THAT bright. I think these folks are being a little over sensitive here. I've only been bike commuting for 23 years, but IMO, if you want to ride in the dark, facing oncoming bikes with lights is part of the deal. You don't have to look in their lights. 

It doesn't bother me, but if it bothers you, cover your light with your hand and I'll do the same. If you don't cover your light, I'll assume it doesn't bother you either. If you don't cover your light, and then yell at me, I'll start thinking that I need a new 2000 lumen light. I'll stop short at saying HTFU.


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## dave66 (Jan 3, 2006)

well i ride with a headlamp as cars tend to tune out a fixed light as opposed to one that moves in my experience. this allows me to turn away from the approaching rider so no cupping of my light required.
not yelling at anyone, on the trail, just a simple question on what once was a more welcoming forum. 
and seeing as you are commuting in a southern clime as opposed to ottawa, i would pump the brakes on your HTFU


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## INABIL (Nov 3, 2015)

I have the same Magicshine you have. I ride the flats and up hills on low and down hill on medium. The high beam I use in the woods on down hill and medium on flats. When I come up to traffic or other riders I push the light down lower. I also have the annoyingly bright strobe tail light that Magicshne sells so I don't get hit from behind.


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## kimoly (Mar 9, 2014)

Some folks forget that a MUT is a lot narrower than a street and so their bright lights are more directly in the eyes of oncoming riders than they would be to riders/drivers on a street. Use the bright settings on a road but please use a dimmer setting on a MUT - you don't really need 700 lumens to light up the paved path and your fellow trail users will appreciate your consideration.


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## kjdhawkhill (Jan 29, 2011)

kimoly said:


> Some folks forget that a MUT is a lot narrower than a street and so their bright lights are more directly in the eyes of oncoming riders than they would be to riders/drivers on a street. Use the bright settings on a road but please use a dimmer setting on a MUT - you don't really need 700 lumens to light up the paved path and your fellow trail users will appreciate your consideration.


Some animals forget that other species are allowed to use the MUTs too. I rarely ride the MUTs during dark commutes because the rabbits can be so bad on them… My 3-500 lumen and 375 lumen lights weren't always sufficient to view those little fockers… But I also rarely encountered another rider on them when riding to work.


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## bradkay (Nov 5, 2013)

kjdhawkhill said:


> Some animals forget that other species are allowed to use the MUTs too. I rarely ride the MUTs during dark commutes because the rabbits can be so bad on them… My 3-500 lumen and 375 lumen lights weren't always sufficient to view those little fockers… But I also rarely encountered another rider on them when riding to work.


Then my guess is that you don't need to worry about blinding other riders or walkers on the trail. Her point is still valid for those who do encounter other human users of the MUTs.


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

Someone should invent a headlight mount that you can switch - sort of like a rear view mirror - between high and low beam. In urban situations you can ride with the light dipped lower than out in the open where you flick the mount and it tilts higher to shine further ahead at higher speeds.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

9W9W said:


> Someone should invent a headlight mount that you can switch - sort of like a rear view mirror - between high and low beam. In urban situations you can ride with the light dipped lower than out in the open where you flick the mount and it tilts higher to shine further ahead at higher speeds.


Most handlebar mounts can easily be pivoted if you tighten the mount just enough. Just grab the light and twist it, up or down. I do it all the time.


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

9W9W said:


> Someone should invent a headlight mount that you can switch - sort of like a rear view mirror - between high and low beam. In urban situations you can ride with the light dipped lower than out in the open where you flick the mount and it tilts higher to shine further ahead at higher speeds.


Or get a light with a remote switch, something like a Gloworm X1, X2 or XS. Can cycle between all the modes without moving your hands, just flick the button with your thumb.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

JCavilia said:


> Most handlebar mounts can easily be pivoted if you tighten the mount just enough. Just grab the light and twist it, up or down. I do it all the time.


And there's always your hand which can cover the light. 

The problem with my light is I have to cycle through a bunch of settings -- high/medium/low/slow flash/fast flash/off -- so to turn the thing down for every person who passes me is a PITA. 

kimoly -- how do you know how much light I need? The last few miles of my commute is pitch dark on a trail with a pretty active deer population. Those dumb animals saunter across the trail in the dark all the time. In some spots, I slow down because the light isn't bright enough.


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## kimoly (Mar 9, 2014)

pmf said:


> And there's always your hand which can cover the light.
> 
> The problem with my light is I have to cycle through a bunch of settings -- high/medium/low/slow flash/fast flash/off -- so to turn the thing down for every person who passes me is a PITA.
> 
> kimoly -- how do you know how much light I need? The last few miles of my commute is pitch dark on a trail with a pretty active deer population. Those dumb animals saunter across the trail in the dark all the time. In some spots, I slow down because the light isn't bright enough.


I also have to deal with wildlife - deer and rabbits - on the trail on which I commute. It's quite dark and away from the lighted streets, but I still use only an old 140 lumen NightRider MiNewt on the trail so as to not blind the other human users of the trail. It gives me plenty of light for the trail, and when I see the animals I slow down just like I would if it were bright daylight and I saw them on or next to the trail. 

I can understand the issue of dimming a light with multiple settings that you have to cycle through - my CygoLite that I use on the roads once I am off the MUT is like that. I am using the MiNewt on the trail so that I don't have to deal with cycling through the different modes. However, you can just tilt the light down so that it isn't shining in the eyes of the oncoming riders/walkers - just as JCavilia suggested.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

My Phillips Saferide is brighter than a 1,200 lumen MagicShine if that tells you anything. In fact you can find the same MagicShine lights, which are nothing but generic lights that someone decided to import than slap a name on it and market it intellegently, so you can get these generics for less than $60, here's one excellent example (although they really overrate the lumens on this light, probably closer to 800); see: http://www.amazon.com/SecurityIng®-Headlight-Headlamp-Bicycle-Packaging/dp/B009QX8B2Q

I run with two lights, the Philips Saferide is on the bar and a Cygolite Mitycross 480 on the helmet. On most rides the Mitycross is set to high flash while the Saferide is on low steady, if I find myself on a dark country road or bike path I'll switch the Mitycross to steady, and on rainy dark nights I switch the Philips to high.

I'm not saying those two lights I have are the best, but they put out more light then I use most of the time so I'm happy; they do make brighter more compact lights now for the helmet then the Mitycross I use. The reason I was pointing all of this out is that I think having two lights is better than just one, but one is better than none! A helmet light is cool because you can flash the light into the side windows of cars waiting at intersection, or through the windshield of a car wanting to make a turn in front of you, or for reading signs. And two headlights give you the security that if a light goes dead on a ride you have the other one.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

pmf said:


> And there's always your hand which can cover the light.
> 
> The problem with my light is I have to cycle through a bunch of settings -- high/medium/low/slow flash/fast flash/off -- so to turn the thing down for every person who passes me is a PITA.
> 
> kimoly -- how do you know how much light I need? The last few miles of my commute is pitch dark on a trail with a pretty active deer population. Those dumb animals saunter across the trail in the dark all the time. In some spots, I slow down because the light isn't bright enough.


You live in the sticks? The OP was talking about an urban environment, where there are lots of users on the trails, joggers and cyclists among others. And in a crowded environment, your HTFU attitude of the sticks ain't gonna work. If people start to do whatever the f*ck they feel like it, that's accident waiting to happen. The OP is right.


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## bradkay (Nov 5, 2013)

I liken it to drivers who always have their brights on - they seem to have no concern for others. THEY can see and they don't care if they blind those coming in the opposite direction.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

aclinjury said:


> You live in the sticks? The OP was talking about an urban environment, where there are lots of users on the trails, joggers and cyclists among others. And in a crowded environment, your HTFU attitude of the sticks ain't gonna work. If people start to do whatever the f*ck they feel like it, that's accident waiting to happen. The OP is right.


No, I live in the DC suburbs. I ride 17 miles from Vienna, VA to DC (see my post in the commuting section). Its 99% on a MUT. The number of riders thins out when the weather cools off and DLST ends. Most people don't cover their light. Frankly, it doesn't bother me. In the 23 years I've been doing it, I haven't yet encountered an accident due to a light being too bright. If it bothers you, cover your light with your hand when you approach me and I'll do the same. Otherwise, HTFU. 

Northern VA is over run with deer. The last 3-4 miles of my commute is indeed deer central.


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

bradkay said:


> I liken it to drivers who always have their brights on - they seem to have no concern for others. THEY can see and they don't care if they blind those coming in the opposite direction.


No. I am firmly convinced that these people are so overwhelmed and woefully under prepared for the task of operating a motor vehicle that they are neither aware of their high beams being on, nor do they know what the blue light on their dashboard is for.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

9W9W said:


> No. I am firmly convinced that these people are so overwhelmed and woefully under prepared for the task of operating a motor vehicle that they are neither aware of their high beams being on, nor do they know what the blue light on their dashboard is for.


You try texting, smoking a cig and drinking a milkshake while you're driving. Horsing around with the headlights is the least of your worries.


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

SPlKE said:


> You try texting, smoking a cig and drinking a milkshake while you're driving. Horsing around with the headlights is the least of your worries.


Hilarious. Tried to rep you, must spread the love around. 

I can't. I can't get started on this topic lest I stroke out. 

Last week we had a particularly foggy/misty evening, you should see the number of morons driving with their high beams on trying to cut through the fog.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

9W9W said:


> Hilarious. Tried to rep you, must spread the love around.
> 
> I can't. I can't get started on this topic lest I stroke out.
> 
> Last week we had a particularly foggy/misty evening, you should see the number of morons driving with their high beams on trying to cut through the fog.


Heh

In retrospect, I now wish I had said "texting, vaping and drinking a Red Bull...".

Smoking a cig and drinking a milkshake is so old fashioned.


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

SPlKE said:


> Smoking a cig and drinking a milkshake is so old fashioned.


yeah you better watch out 'bout dating yourself like that, one more slip up and it's off to the glue factory with you.


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## Christine (Jul 23, 2005)

My beloved, blindingly strong light is out of commission. The pin/screw that holds it to the helmet attachment is missing. Not sure if the pin can be replaced.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Hey Froze -- I bought that light plus another -- about $25 each. It's good to have some backups (wife commutes on a bike too). It did get a fair amount of negative reviews so it looks like a bit of a crap shoot, but at $25 WTF.


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## GDR (Jul 4, 2009)

*Agreed*

these lights are a menace and blinding, really you need a high beam? When it is dark out and these lights are coming at you on the GWB 6' wide lane it is very difficult not to focus on it.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

I have a Cateye Volt 300 which seems adequate for my commutes on open roads. I run it on flashing mode which only burns on the brightest setting. I also keep a small LED flashlight in my jacket pocket that is 250 lumens but has a more focused beam. It's useful as extra notification to motorists who get too close to me.


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## DBT (Oct 31, 2008)

I agree (and use) the dual light setup. I sue all Light & Motion: Urban 500 on the bar, a Vis180 on the seatpost, and Vis360 on the helmet. My commute is all suburban on a mix of road and MUP. There are a few sections of MUP that are unlit, not to mention populated by deer as mentioned above. This is the only time I run the lights on high. I switch to low on the road as they streets are fairly well to well lit. 

The first day I ran the added helmet setup, I had two compliments on the visibility. One from a pedestrian and the second from a motorist at a stoplight. 

Be seen and safe out there.


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## Raymo853 (Feb 15, 2005)

Here in the Wash DC region this has become a big issue on the bike paths. There are lots of commuters going both ways. Lots of local discussion about what to do.

The general trend is many people now cover their lights when they see an on coming bike or runner. It is what I do, when it is safe but not when taking a hand off the bar will be bad. 

I am about to buy a nice German dyno light that is designed not to be blinding.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

When I commute at night, I use two lights on my bars. One smaller 'be seen' light that is always on. I also have a second, much brighter light that I use in the darker areas where it's hard to see the road. I always turn off the big light when someone is approaching me from the front. 

It's not just a courtesy. It's a safety thing. There was a pretty serious head on crash between two cyclists on our local MUT last fall that was caused by both riders being blinded by each others bright headlights.

I've personally pulled over and come to a stop when I was blinded by an oncoming cyclist headlight last winter.

Aiming them down or changing to a dimmer mode would help. The problem is, much like most drivers, most cyclists are only thinking of their safety from their own perspective. If you blind the rider approaching you, you could cause a crash.


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## bradkay (Nov 5, 2013)

Migen21 said:


> When I commute at night, I use two lights on my bars. One smaller 'be seen' light that is always on. I also have a second, much brighter light that I use in the darker areas where it's hard to see the road. I always turn off the big light when someone is approaching me from the front.
> 
> It's not just a courtesy. It's a safety thing. There was a pretty serious head on crash between two cyclists on our local MUT last fall that was caused by both riders being blinded by each others bright headlights.
> 
> ...


This is a major concern. Why don't more riders understand that danger?


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

bradkay said:


> This is a major concern. Why don't more riders understand that danger?


I think that there's a lot of "It's all about me" going on out there.

Of course that's just speculation on my part.


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## bradkay (Nov 5, 2013)

velodog said:


> I think that there's a lot of "It's all about me" going on out there.
> 
> Of course that's just speculation on my part.


I certainly get that impression from the folks who run their bright lights all the time on the MUTs. The "just avert your eyes" argument is quite flawed - they forget that when you aren't looking where you are rolling you are more likely to wander off your line, thus increasing the likelihood of that head on collision mentioned in MiGen21s post.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Notice how low the beam is. Looks like plenty of visibility without blinding oncoming traffic. 

Campy Only!


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## jason124 (Jul 25, 2006)

On the subject of lights and brightness, what is the best way to aim a bike headlight? I currently ride with a Cygolite Expilion 850 (got it for the replaceable battery, not the lumens) and either use it on low or on strobe. Its aimed pretty conservatively (light starts right at the forward edge of the wheel).


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

jason124 said:


> On the subject of lights and brightness, what is the best way to aim a bike headlight? I currently ride with a Cygolite Expilion 850 (got it for the replaceable battery, not the lumens) and either use it on low or on strobe. Its aimed pretty conservatively (light starts right at the forward edge of the wheel).


aiming is trial and error, you want to aim the light to illuminate the road far enough out that you don't override the light, meaning you wouldn't be able to stop in time should the light see something. With that light you shouldn't have any problem with overriding it once it's aimed right. Besides overriding it, if you aim it to close to the pavement in front of you you'll get a wash of bright light reflecting off the pavement and into your eyes giving you partial night blindness.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

jason124 said:


> On the subject of lights and brightness, what is the best way to aim a bike headlight? I currently ride with a Cygolite Expilion 850 (got it for the replaceable battery, not the lumens) and either use it on low or on strobe. Its aimed pretty conservatively (light starts right at the forward edge of the wheel).


It's really dependent on the speeds you ride. I wouldn't be comfortable with the light right in front of the wheel at any speed over 10mph. I have mine at least 20ft in front. But I also run a helmet light too.

Riding 10mph = 14.6ft/sec. If there's a hole in the road and you're only seeing 15ft in front, you have 1 second to react. If you're riding 20mph that leaves you 1/2 second to react.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

tlg said:


> It's really dependent on the speeds you ride. I wouldn't be comfortable with the light right in front of the wheel at any speed over 10mph. I have mine at least 20ft in front. But I also run a helmet light too.
> 
> Riding 10mph = 14.6ft/sec. If there's a hole in the road and you're only seeing 15ft in front, you have 1 second to react. If you're riding 20mph that leaves you 1/2 second to react.


Good info TIG, you put math to the problem. My main light is aimed much further than 20 feet, but the Phillips Saferide has a pear shape beam design and it uses aimed optics, but I would say, strictly an estimate since I've never measured it, that it reaches out at least 200 feet with great visibility of the road. 

An 850 lumen light like the Cygolite Expilion should also reach out a lot further than 20 feet with no problem as long as it's aimed correctly of course. And at 850 lumens it will not leave the commuter for wanting a brighter light. Plus I think it's the best light for the money, Amazon has it for $97


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

froze said:


> Good info TIG, you put math to the problem. My main light is aimed much further than 20 feet, but the Phillips Saferide has a pear shape beam design and it uses aimed optics, but I would say, strictly an estimate since I've never measured it, that it reaches out at least 200 feet with great visibility of the road.


Good point about beam shape. It matters too. 

What I meant with 20ft is that's around the edge where the beam starts. Then extends further down the road.


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## jason124 (Jul 25, 2006)

Makes sense. Fortunately, its not too dark when I ride, there is still some ambient light from sunrise/sunset so visibility hasn't been a major issue. I figured aiming conservatively meant I reduced the likelihood that I would blind someone. 

That being said, there has been days where there is still plenty of light and I run over branches  and a nice SOG pocket knife (I at least avoided the blade).


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