# Rock & Republic Rant.



## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

An entertaining read. Wow. 

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/13787.0.html


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

Every time Ball talks to the media he comes across as a total d$ckhead. Worse, he doesn't seeem to know much about pro cycling and is another of these guys who think they can come in and dominate the sport instantly. By comparison, he makes Tinkov look like a good boss.


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

"Because he is the son of f---ing Spanish nationals. Period."

more like this please. they're running what amounts to a state sponsored organized crime ring by protecting and facilitating sports cheats, the more often they're called out bluntly the better.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

stevesbike said:


> Every time Ball talks to the media he comes across as a total d$ckhead. Worse, he doesn't seeem to know much about pro cycling and is another of these guys who think they can come in and dominate the sport instantly. By comparison, he makes Tinkov look like a good boss.


I agree. He obviously loves the sport, but wow. he's got attitude coming out his a$$, which also seems to be where his ideas come from.


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## Uprwstsdr (Jul 17, 2002)

"Worse, he doesn't seeem to know much about pro cycling and is another of these guys who think they can come in and dominate the sport instantly. "

I think he may know a little bit about pro cycling. He is a former nationally ranked track rider.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

well talking about being the catalyst for a rider's union isn't exactly a good way to win any friends at the UCI. It's the UCI's position that they are the rider's union and a rider will be suspended for trying to organize an outside union. A team's success depends on developing the political alliances that get you invited to races etc. If he rubs everyone the wrong way, they are going to exclude the team, especially a win or nothing attitude and an anti anti-doping stance (calling the USADA a witchhunt). Do they even have a spot in the ToC?


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## 3rensho (Aug 26, 2003)

*Yep, he's a 'head*

Haven't seen many guys like this running teams in the U.S. 
Should be good for some laughs though. Pity poor Frankie, he'll be looking for a new gig shortly.

Here's Horners response to his comments about their proposed 'deal':

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/13788.0.html

Chris Horner: Michael Ball knew all along I wanted to stay in Europe. I had gone on the record, on VeloNews.com, saying I wanted to stay with Predictor-Lotto. And after he started telling people I was signed at Interbike, I had trouble finding a job when I went back to Europe. His saying he'd signed me had practically taken me off the market. 

The only thing that was appealing to me about racing for him was the three-year deal. It was good money, but the contract never came through the way we had discussed it. The deal was never done because we had originally discussed a three-year contract for x amount of money, but what he offered me was a day-to-day contract that was good for three years, meaning he could fire me whenever he wanted, just like he fired Sebastian Haedo and threatened to fire Rahsaan Bahati. 

If Michael Ball gives the okay, I'll be happy to release every version of my contract that he sent me. And for the record, I'm making substantially more money this year than I would have with him. Granted, Astana is a one-year deal, so I'm not making more than I would have versus three years with Rock Racing, but I didn't want a day-to-day contract. I can tell you that his offer was substantially less, if you went from year to year. We had a good 10 to 12 weeks of contract negotiations, but it was never written the right way. And if he says I can release the contract to VeloNews, I will be more than happy to, so everyone can see what I was offered.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Ball, is full of it he very good at take facts and spinning em to make stories much like the "Horner is signed" and the "Cipo is returning to racing" most of which amounts to half truths, a fact that has already gotten his organization called on releasing crap as legit facts to the press, the upshot of which is that anything coming from his PR get treated with little trust. 

As far as pro racing it does seem that he knows little about how its actually goes down as per the Velo News article. 

He also comes of as a hypocrite withe the whole "I don't want dopers around me" mess in light of the fact that he hired on Botero who has already served a suspension for Test in the past (if memory serves me right) and was heavily suspected of ties to Fuentes and was on the Kelme team that Manzano discribed as drug riddled, most of that evidence is circumstantial but there is alot of it there.


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

Pablo said:


> An entertaining read. Wow.
> 
> http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/13787.0.html


Another 'bad boy' trying to swear his way into the history books.

I do think that if Rock and Slipstream could get together on a coordinated campaign of 'good guys' and 'bad guys', they could be a big hit in the US. A few uncalled for techniques and some 'Aussi justice' from the Rockers countered by bravery and fair play from the All American Team and we would lap it up. Might even make it to 'reality' TV.

TF


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

TurboTurtle said:


> Another 'bad boy' trying to swear his way into the history books.
> 
> I do think that if Rock and Slipstream could get together on a coordinated campaign of 'good guys' and 'bad guys', they could be a big hit in the US. A few uncalled for techniques and some 'Aussi justice' from the Rockers countered by bravery and fair play from the All American Team and we would lap it up. Might even make it to 'reality' TV.
> 
> TF


Id prefer the current state of relative obscurity to that scenario.


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## Doctor Who (Feb 22, 2005)

Is it wrong of me to actually like R&R _more_ because of this rant?


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## MaestroXC (Sep 15, 2005)

First time I've ever seen an interview where Neal Rogers comes across as the smart, reasonable one. 

Ball is nuts if he think Santiago Botero is going to come and rip up the US field, not to mention the Euro races that he seem to think they are going to be racing. He seems to hear what he wants to hear, and all else just passes right by. Kayle Leogrande, Tour star? He's a great racer, but this guy is out of his mind. Testa probably said something like, "Well, he's got the same power output as some of the sprinters who win stages in the Tour", and Ball thought "Great! Yellow jersey here we come!" Sorry dude, a 30 year old sprinter who has never ridden in a European stage race is going to be broom wagon fodder.


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## fleck (Mar 25, 2005)

he's just a media hound. All his antics are getting his product more air time. Until he's ignored he'll keep playing his hand the way it's going. It's working isn't it? They stand out from other clubs right? Of course even tossing lots of $ at big names will lose it's draw if his mouth keeps his team from getting important invites.


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## Greggb (Apr 15, 2002)

Lets see the team moto "Win at all costs or your fired"

Then this
"I asked Ball for an interview after hearing rumors from several sources
that Rock Racing's Kayle Leogrande, the 2006 elite national criterium
champion, had tested positive after the International Cycling Classic -
also known as Superweek - where he won three events, finished second at
three more and finished second overall by five points to winner Marco Rios
of Kahala-LaGrange."

Hmm, the two couldnt be related could they?


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## ridin at 4:20 (Dec 9, 2007)

*Money*

It does an attitude GOOD


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## cbuchanan (Mar 6, 2006)

Doctor Who said:


> Is it wrong of me to actually like R&R _more_ because of this rant?


I was actually thinking the same thing.





Greggb said:


> Lets see the team moto "Win at all costs or your fired"
> 
> Then this
> "I asked Ball for an interview after hearing rumors from several sources
> ...




I think that he answered that one really well actually. 

"Absolutely not. This is all horrible rumor. Kayle just received his "Congratulations, you are negative" letter from USADA. It's just bullshit. Someone is out there trying to get him, and I will take it to the mat, dude, let me tell you. As I've said before, this sport is eating itself, they are eating their young. These rogue elements, if you will, within the USADAs and the WADAs, are absurd, and are killing this sport, for whatever reason."


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

cbuchanan said:


> I think that he answered that one really well actually.
> 
> "Absolutely not. This is all horrible rumor. Kayle just received his "Congratulations, you are negative" letter from USADA. It's just bullshit. Someone is out there trying to get him, and I will take it to the mat, dude, let me tell you. As I've said before, this sport is eating itself, they are eating their young. These rogue elements, if you will, within the USADAs and the WADAs, are absurd, and are killing this sport, for whatever reason."


Actually if you read USADA repsonse he didn't answer it at all he just did what he always dose spun a story that got him more exposure which is all hes about he dosn't care about cycling beyond the fact that if gets exposure for his brand.


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## Kestreljr (Jan 10, 2007)

I have two thoughts:

1. He is the Media hound, trying to say absurd things to get more media coverage. It will probably work for a while.

2. With the current reputation of pro cycling, you are going to only attract two kinds of sponsors- those with a compulsion to change the cycling world for the better, and those who fight authority and want to be seen as some kind of out-law. I think he is the latter of the two.


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## kmac (Feb 13, 2007)

While I think that pro-cycling needs all the help it can get these days, I for one don't think this is the kind of "support" that the sport needs. He comes across as sort of a tool.


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## crumjack (Sep 11, 2005)

I especially enjoyed this part:


> Overnight, they are done, they can't get a contract, they are suspended, whatever the case may be. How do they support their family, *their lifestyle that they have become accustomed to? And what about those riders in the future who will never have the opportunity to have a multimillion-dollar contract based on their talent*, just because of what is happening right now?


Pro-cycling isn't the NBA or over-hyped fashion. I don't imagine there are too many junior racers hoping they look good at Sea Otter so they are lottery pick and make millions in a year or two.

The comments about Horner were amusing. I guess you are only talented if Ball signs you. I hope Johan is aware that Horner's power output dropped the moment he turned down R&R and signed with Astana.


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## I am The Edge (Jul 27, 2004)

The groupies hangin' around their tent at the Manhattan Beach Grand Prix were off the chart.


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## mikeyp123 (Mar 9, 2007)

I am The Edge said:


> The groupies hangin' around their tent at the Manhattan Beach Grand Prix were off the chart.


just south bay hotties trying to score some free jeans..


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## ridin at 4:20 (Dec 9, 2007)

*What is bad...*

You almost want to see the team fail in 2008 because of his arrogance. It would be interesting to see what the riders "truely" think of him. I wonder what Clinger thinks?


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## ashpelham (Jan 19, 2006)

That is such a shocking photo. I had completely forgotten about that whole thing, and how the guy basically lost his job over it. 

Looks unemployable to me. Alas, to each his own.


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## tete de la tour (Oct 26, 2006)

i actually think this kind of passion is needed here in the US. Wher UFC fighting and Nascar are huge and cycling is a on perhaps 2 network hours a year. I hope Rock Racing does well and perhaps other egocentric hounds will get involved and bring some flavor to the sport here. Doping news is not good, but attitude and chaos and competition will make things more interesting. 

on a side note I have this to contribute. 

Picture was removed to avoid being banned.


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## ridin at 4:20 (Dec 9, 2007)

You just made my day. Thank you


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*Isn't that?*



32and3cross said:


> Actually if you read USADA repsonse he didn't answer it at all he just did what he always dose spun a story that got him more exposure which is all hes about he dosn't care about cycling beyond the fact that if gets exposure for his brand.


Isn't that the point of being a sponsor for a cycling team? Getting exposure for your product/service, or whatever it is you're hawking out there? It is a business after all, and he is trying to get more exposure for his product, and this is another way of doing it, and probably doing it cheaper than he was before.

I dig him, mostly because he is an arse. I love jerks for some reason.


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## Lumbergh (Aug 19, 2005)

I actually find myself agreeing with him on some points, especially his description of Horner as a rider - he does seem to think way too much of himself and his worth - I'd take Popo over him every day of the week and 2x on Sundays.

Horner was a great domestic pro, perhaps the best. He's an above average Euro-pro, however. Most of the riders in that class make pitifully little salaries...

2008 should be an interesting season in US cycling


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

magnolialover said:


> Isn't that the point of being a sponsor for a cycling team? Getting exposure for your product/service, or whatever it is you're hawking out there? It is a business after all, and he is trying to get more exposure for his product, and this is another way of doing it, and probably doing it cheaper than he was before.
> 
> I dig him, mostly because he is an arse. I love jerks for some reason.


Yes that is the point it harder to get the press to run stuff about your team tho when you make up bullshit. There are better ways to get exposure than being an ass.

That you like him is fine with me, Im not real big on hypocrites and bullshit artists so I don't care for him.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Lumbergh said:


> I actually find myself agreeing with him on some points, especially his description of Horner as a rider - he does seem to think way too much of himself and his worth - I'd take Popo over him every day of the week and 2x on Sundays.
> 
> Horner was a great domestic pro, perhaps the best. He's an above average Euro-pro, however. Most of the riders in that class make pitifully little salaries...


Could you supply some examples with numbers?

The reason Horner asked for more was because the group that he was riding was filled withe guys that made way more than him, so he figured (right in my opinion) that if he could do the same work he ought to get at least close to the same money.

He might be wrong but it looks like he got the money he was after.

Lets see if Balls big expense on Botero pays off or if he sends Santiego packing half way through the season.


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## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

Uprwstsdr said:


> "Worse, he doesn't seeem to know much about pro cycling and is another of these guys who think they can come in and dominate the sport instantly. "
> 
> I think he may know a little bit about pro cycling. He is a former nationally ranked track rider.


thanks for confirming the fact that he doesn't know much about PRO cycling. :wink:


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## crumjack (Sep 11, 2005)

*Re: "National Class" on the track*

http://fixedgearfever.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=4205

Doesn't sound like he did much beyond cat 3, NTTAWWT...


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*I love!*



32and3cross said:


> Yes that is the point it harder to get the press to run stuff about your team tho when you make up bullshit. There are better ways to get exposure than being an ass.
> 
> That you like him is fine with me, Im not real big on hypocrites and bullshit artists so I don't care for him.


I love the BS guys. Do I think Ball is full of it and full of himself? Absolutely. Abso-freakin'-lutely. Will he be good or bad for US cycling? Don't know yet. There are plenty of folks who have said the same things about guys like Horner, and plenty of other riders, and team managers in the past (remember the Wordin Mercury days?? They seemed to do pretty well even with a loudmouth BS artist in charge). 

I think if he is loud, and proud, and says crazy things, he'll get his name in the press, that's what he's supposed to do, that's what he does. I'll support Rock Racing, mostly because I love the guys who are racing for the team, regardless of what spotty backgrounds that some of them have (Botero), but we'll see if they survive, or if someone who wants to dump a ton of money into the sport will be driven out because people don't agree with the way he talks, or the BS he throws around. Cycling, pretty conservative sport, and generally its practitioners, at least in the US, are more of a middle upper class segment of the society who does it, and that same segment tends to protect itself, and tends to shun, or try to get folks like Ball to get out of the sport.


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## ridin at 4:20 (Dec 9, 2007)

*The more I think about it*

He is the new Marc Cuban of bike racing. A rich guy with tons of money and arrogance. That is fine, those kind of guys make the world go around. Jonathon Vaughters he is not. JV respects the sport, this guy seems to only care about winning, as all owners/directors should. However, it is the way he presents the win at all cost attitude. 

To say if you don't win you are fired and the win at all cost attitude in a sport that has been damaged by the very same attitude, it doesn't sit well. He mentions that his riders "will not" speak to the media prior to race season, makes me wonder why?

I'm guessing he has then locked up in cages somewhere in the mtns and he is poking them 3 times a day with some experiment drugs trying to breed them like horses.

With guys like Legrande and CLinger, if you are willing to go to such an extreme to cover your face and bodies in tats, them I wouldn't be surpised if they were to take stuff.


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

"...but we'll see if they survive, or if someone who wants to dump a ton of money into the sport will be driven out because people don't agree with the way he talks,..."

I don't see these as the only two options. A third is that he totally fails on his own and I see this as the most likely. - TF


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## funktekk (Jul 29, 2006)

ridin at 4:20 said:


> He is the new Marc Cuban of bike racing.


You are correct. Marc Cuban spouts his mouth of all the time, but when it comes to running the team he has people who take care of that stuff.

Frankie Andreu probably has a lot more to do with the daily goings on of the team than Ball. Ball will say what he wants to get the press but Andreu will deal with the boys on the bikes.



ridin at 4:20 said:


> With guys like Legrande and CLinger, if you are willing to go to such an extreme to cover your face and bodies in tats, them I wouldn't be surpised if they were to take stuff.


This is very slippery slope you have ventured upon... I don't see a correlation between body art and doping.


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## ridin at 4:20 (Dec 9, 2007)

funktekk said:


> You are correct. Marc Cuban spouts his mouth of all the time, but when it comes to running the team he has people who take care of that stuff.
> 
> Frankie Andreu probably has a lot more to do with the daily goings on of the team than Ball. Ball will say what he wants to get the press but Andreu will deal with the boys on the bikes.
> 
> ...



Sorry but, if someone is that crazy when it comes to tats, i wouldn't be shocked at what other things they may do.


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## Eric_H (Feb 5, 2004)

*Popovych*



Lumbergh said:


> I actually find myself agreeing with him on some points, especially his description of Horner as a rider - he does seem to think way too much of himself and his worth - I'd take Popo over him every day of the week and 2x on Sundays.
> 
> Horner was a great domestic pro, perhaps the best. He's an above average Euro-pro, however. Most of the riders in that class make pitifully little salaries...
> 
> 2008 should be an interesting season in US cycling


Off topic a bit, but Yaroslav Popovych is shaping up to be one of the most under-acheiving "next big things" of this decade. After his stellar U23 career and early podium in the Giro, he really has not achieved too much. Yes he won the Tour of Catalonia in boring fashion without a stage win. He also won a stage in the Tour in 2006 but I will always believe that stage was "bought" from Rabobank as they had Freire in the break that day. Something about his attack and subsequent win, it just looked a little too easy.

Horner has not been such a bad Euro pro and I would say from 2005 to 2007 his results are equal of Popovych.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

magnolialover said:


> Cycling, pretty conservative sport, and generally its practitioners, at least in the US, are more of a middle upper class segment of the society who does it, and that same segment tends to protect itself, and tends to shun, or try to get folks like Ball to get out of the sport.


Sorry there is no way you can push the argument that I or the news source that he's has BSed is conservative so you argument doesn't really apply too me. I just don't consider making crap up as legit ways of getting attention it didn't work for Wordin my guess is it won't work for Ball. And if you believe Ball actually is good for cycling or gives a really crap about the sport I think your sadly mistaken. 

I guess I'll take substance over style.


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*Come on now...*



32and3cross said:


> Sorry there is no way you can push the argument that I or the news source that he's has BSed is conservative so you argument doesn't really apply too me. I just don't consider making crap up as legit ways of getting attention it didn't work for Wordin my guess is it won't work for Ball. And if you believe Ball actually is good for cycling or gives a really crap about the sport I think your sadly mistaken.
> 
> I guess I'll take substance over style.


Now, I would never consider you, personally, conservative, but you have to admit, the sport of cycling in general, is VERY conservative, in the USA at least. This is my opinion, and what I've seen of the sport from the outside, and the inside. You might have a different view, but we can agree to disagree. You know, as well as I do, that when something new and different pops up on the cycling scene, the first thing that happens is that the folks who have been there for awhile start talking junk about whatever it is just pulled into the station. This happens on a national, and a local level. For example, I'll use your wife's team as an example. When she first started organizing it, and pulling riders into it, and the first season she got it started up and running, there was all sorts of junk talked about that team. Why? Because they were a new team, and even on the local level, the other women and women's teams didn't like it much. Again, just my own experience. Another example, from a local level I can cite is when one Candice Blickem first came to the SE, and started racing the roads, and started kicking the crap out of everyone around here. Much junk talked about her for about a year by the firmly and deeply entrenched women in the sport in the SE. This happens on a national level as well, with teams like Rock Racing, and others. Cycling likes the status quo, it doesn't like any big shake ups. Ball is full of rhetoric and fury, and I'm good with that. He's also providing substance, as you say, over style. How do I say that? Look at the money he's piling into his team. He's backing up his talking, with his money, and providing some work for some pretty decent cyclists in my opinion. Sure he's got style too, and how long he'll last in the sport I don't think will be determined by him at all. I think it will be determined by how much the mucky mucks, and the entrenched teams want to put up with him, and his riders.

My point, in this, is that he's brash, and he's a dick (Ball, I mean). I think that he cares about his business, and that he cares about cycling, and he's trying to combine the 2 of them to further his own business, which is again, what sponsorship is all about in the end of things. Sure, it's nice to have a passion for something that you're sponsoring, but last I checked, it's not a requirement. How many US Postal employees do you know that have a passion, or had a passion I should say, for cycling, and really cared anything at all about the team? For that matter, how many US Postal employees even knew that the people they worked for sponsored a team at all? My point? You don't need to be passionate about something if you see a good marketing tool and a chance to further your own brand name. Also, he's a fairly successful businessman, and it does appear that he might just be a super type A personality, meaning that he will probably work hard to NOT fail at this. I think folks have already written him off, just for the mere reason that he likes to shoot his mouth off, and talk a big game. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, and the next season to see if his team can pull off some bigger wins this year than they did last year. They did alright for a start up team last year with not a whole ton of firepower, and now they have more this year. Could be interesting. I like how folks on here are already writing him off, without even giving the team the chance to succeed or fail.

Let's talk about Ball and his team after the 08 race season shall we?


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Actually in light of their new supposed signing its gonna take on the air of comedy. 

Mag - Your right I don't like Ball for some stuff I heard about him behind the scenes which Im not about to repeat. Actually I don't think he cares for the sport as a whole so you and I will have disagee on that.

Im BTW not really writing his team off but the way he's running now they will never make it over the pond which is where he wants to make it.

BTW your argument that people in cycling don't like Ball because the are conservative in the views dosen't really hold water Mag. Most don't like him because for clearly documented reasons he's and unlikable guy. Talking **** is really a ground breaking new way of doing biz in fact its a pretty old and pretty boring. Lying isn't all that new either. Im not sure what comparison your trying to draw between my wife's team and Ball but one doesn't really exist.


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## jm3 (Mar 22, 2003)

32and3cross said:


> Actually in light of their new supposed signing its gonna take on the air of comedy.
> 
> Mag - Your right I don't like Ball for some stuff I heard about him behind the scenes which Im not about to repeat. Actually I don't think he cares for the sport as a whole so you and I will have disagee on that.
> 
> ...


Well, if the rumors are true, they might make it over the pond quicker than you think, and in a big way. I believe that's one of the surprises he's talking about in the most recent Velonews article.

I can tell you this: R&R will not be riding Look's with SRAM components next year as had previously been announced, and the combination of their new sponsors for bikes and components will have a lot to do with a certain race they're suppose to be invited to join - it was all rumored to be part of the deal.

Look, I believe, is breathing a sigh of relief - at least from what I'm observing. They're too classy an organization to actually admit that out loud.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

jm3 said:


> Well, if the rumors are true, they might make it over the pond quicker than you think, and in a big way. I believe that's one of the surprises he's talking about in the most recent Velonews article.
> 
> I can tell you this: R&R will not be riding Look's with SRAM components next year as had previously been announced, and the combination of their new sponsors for bikes and components will have a lot to do with a certain race they're suppose to be invited to join - it was all rumored to be part of the deal.
> 
> Look, I believe, is breathing a sigh of relief - at least from what I'm observing. They're too classy an organization to actually admit that out loud.


I believe that can get in the some races (although not the tour) but as far as making it I meant get actual results. Rightly or wrongly Hamilton or Botero getting results in a big Euro race will get them attention they may not wish to have as it could prevent them getting more invites. Course the could just use TH and Botero to get a few results and then jettison them if they have a contract like the one Horner said he was offered. Or the whole deal could fall apart if Ball's fashion biz dealings catch up with him as hes seems to be making people mad at him in that arena. 

Regardless it will be semi interesting to watch em from a drama stand point.


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## jm3 (Mar 22, 2003)

Yep, you know, signing Hamilton might actually hurt any deal they previously had in place. There's only so much controversy any organizer is willing to deal with right now, I'm sure.

You're right, it will be fun to watch - in sort of a NASCAR crash way. Then again, maybe a fresh start is all some of these guys need. You never know.


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## mikeyp123 (Mar 9, 2007)

I for one wanna see these guys race.... cycling's miscreants, brilliant!


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## Greggb (Apr 15, 2002)

for everyone looking for a dope show this is your team.


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## peter1 (Apr 10, 2002)

Eh, nothing wrong with generating a little buzz. From what I've read of Ball, he's just putting a little more sizzle on the steak. Obviously, like any team out there, results are what matter. If he can make waves and make more money for his company, more power to him. I'd rather a US jeans company sponsor a team than, say, a corrupt government of a former Soviet state...


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## mikeyp123 (Mar 9, 2007)

hehe.. even if they dominate the domestic races.. I still won't buy his jeans. It'll be interesting to see if things work from a marketing perspective, I predict they fail horribly.. who in the US really gives a rats ass about cycling anyway? 

There is a serious gap between who the cycling fans are and who the market segment is for his jeans. I'm guessing Ball knows this, and doesn't give a rats ass.. just wants to be involved with the world of cycling.. which is cool in my book.


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## Davoosie (Mar 17, 2007)

As one poster stated this guy is arrogant. I read the interview and this idiot is the last thing we need in cycling. He is bad for the sport and his team is bound to fail, and I hope it does. 

I really think this guy needs a good beating.

As for the riders.... They seem like the type of guys who will kick you over as they sprint past you, or throw a stick in your spokes in the peleton. We don't need these kind of low life ex-con druggies riding in races or on the roads period!


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## crumjack (Sep 11, 2005)

After reading the interview, I don't care for the guy but that doesn't necessarily tell me he is bad for the sport. After all, if it wasn't for him, there would be no discussion in the pro-cycling forum (aside from Boonen's underage POA). 

I've been a fan/observer of the major North American sports nearly my entire life and have seen similar traits in other owners. George Steinbrenner, Mark Cuban, Jerry Jones, Daniel Snyder have displayed their arrogance, their passion for success, and flashed their money. They have had their negative moments, but, on the whole, they have been good for their respective sports. I would make the argument that part of their success is driven by the organizational aspects of the NFL, NBA, and MLB something pro-cycling is woefully lacking. Their fellow owners, players associations, coach/GM fraternities, etc let them know when they are pushing the envelope too far but aren't so naive to say take your money and go home.

So yeah, I'm a conservative f***er that he mentions. I'll never buy his jeans because the cheap ones at Target are ok with me. But, I love cycling. I enjoy pro cycling so if his team is succesful that will be ok with me. After all, every good story needs an antagonist.


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## footballcat (Jul 8, 2004)

i wish them well. People cheat, shows desire and heart. They put there bodies at risk to win. Judge as you want, but they care about winning. But them on a team they will do well no matter what, they want to win. 

Now if they test postive this year make your judgement. But leave the past in the past. quite waisting your time on something that has no impact on your life. take a look at your kids........ that is all


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

footballcat said:


> i wish them well. People cheat, shows desire and heart. They put there bodies at risk to win. Judge as you want, but they care about winning. But them on a team they will do well no matter what, they want to win.
> 
> Now if they test postive this year make your judgement. But leave the past in the past. quite waisting your time on something that has no impact on your life. take a look at your kids........ that is all


"People cheat, shows desire and heart."??? What??? - TF


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## footballcat (Jul 8, 2004)

TurboTurtle said:


> "People cheat, shows desire and heart."??? What??? - TF


So when someone puts there own personal health at risk to win. What does that show. They of course might be stupid for doing this. But there is desire to win at all costs. You might not see it, but its the same reason the pats stole signs, same reason kenny rodgers used pine tar on his hand 2 years ago. If you dont win your nothing.


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

footballcat said:


> So when someone puts there own personal health at risk to win. What does that show. They of course might be stupid for doing this. But there is desire to win at all costs. You might not see it, but its the same reason the pats stole signs, same reason kenny rodgers used pine tar on his hand 2 years ago. If you dont win your nothing.


That's scary. People cheat because they haven't got the guts to play fair. Is this like honor among thieves or something? ... Do you race? - TF


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## footballcat (Jul 8, 2004)

TurboTurtle said:


> That's scary. People cheat because they haven't got the guts to play fair. Is this like honor among thieves or something? ... Do you race? - TF


Yes i race. 

People dont cheat because they dont have the guts. There is one overall goal of any race, to win or to help someone win. You dont cheat because you dont have the guts. You cheat to obtain something that your not physicaly capable of. You cheat to reach your goal. 

I dont know anyone who cheats to have there goal to go off the back, not get over that hump.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

It is crazy people like Ball who drive the good people away from the sport.

Anyone what to take odds how long Frankie stays around this train wreck waiting to happen? I say less then a month.


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## ridin at 4:20 (Dec 9, 2007)

bigpinkt said:


> It is crazy people like Ball who drive the good people away from the sport.
> 
> Anyone what to take odds how long Frankie stays around this train wreck waiting to happen? I say less then a month.



I bet if they do not pull a stage win at TOC, he is gone. His replacement, VDB


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

ridin at 4:20 said:


> I bet if they do not pull a stage win at TOC, he is gone. His replacement, VDB


VDB! perfect. Someone call the mental hospital.

I bet he will be gone long before then, as will Kayle.


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