# Cav skipping Giro for Tour of California



## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

And another rider opts for the ToC over the Giro. 

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/03/news/cav-to-compete-in-california_110014



> “We believe Mark will be very strong at the Tour de France and the balance of the season,” HTC Columbia manager Bob Stapleton said in a statement released Wednesday. “He will join the team in California and we are very optimistic about his chances for success there.”


HTC still will send a squad to the Giro though.


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## BassNBrew (Aug 4, 2008)

That's great news. We'll have to see what the field ends up like compared to last year, but moving this event to overlap the Giro may have been a good decision after all. I do feel sorry for the European cycling fans, but they do get the big names most of the year plus much better coverage of the sport. It just seems like an overlap is a waste and that cycling should get it's stuff together like golf and tennis apparently do.

As an aside, does anyone have figures on what cycling related product sales are in the US and Europe?


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Is that news? I thought it was planned and annouced months ago?


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## Tater Salad (Mar 31, 2010)

Selfishly, as a ToC homer, this is great news. And Mick Rogers is coming as well. It's a good option for those focusing on the Tour. Glad I'll get to watch a good field race about a mile from my house!

Not great news for the much grander race, the Giro. Ah well, it will hold up.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Dan Gerous said:



> Is that news? I thought it was planned and annouced months ago?


pretty much a given that cavendish was not doing the giro when they said greipel was their man.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Color me surprised that the ToC is attracting the riders over the Giro. I suppose that means Griepel is going to be working his butt off at the Giro and play second fiddle at the TdF.


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## Tater Salad (Mar 31, 2010)

spade2you said:


> Color me surprised that the ToC is attracting the riders over the Giro. I suppose that means Griepel is going to be working his butt off at the Giro and play second fiddle at the TdF.


Gives him an amazing opportunity to prove himself. A good time to shut up and ride. 

If he seizes the opportunity with 2+ stage wins, he not only increases his chances of getting leadership on this team in future races, but ups his contract value significantly. All good for Greipel IMO.


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## diarrheaawareness (Mar 31, 2010)

great news. the giro is neglected and rightly so by all the important riders this year. the armstrong effect? indeed. the giro is too dangerous and too "European". their gt status should be transferred to ToC, which packs a much stronger field and attracts bigger stars,(RS etc).
Dont mean to insult anybody but somebody got to speak the Truth here.:idea:


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

diarrheaawareness said:


> great news. the giro is neglected and rightly so by all the important riders this year. the armstrong effect? indeed. the giro is too dangerous and too "European". their gt status should be transferred to ToC, which packs a much stronger field and attracts bigger stars,(RS etc).
> Dont mean to insult anybody but somebody got to speak the Truth here.:idea:


What? 

My opinion is that the Giro is a proper Grand Tour and is usually the most exciting, even more then the Tour de France. Stages are interesting, the competition is fierce. The Tour of Calirfornia is an easy short race that's pretty boring to follow, more like a crappier but over-marketed Paris-Nice or something. It is prioritized by those who don't want a hard race like the Giro (easier to win something with much less strong teams), those who don't stand a chance in the Giro, those who a short stage race fit with their training, those who are asked to go by sponsors (that might be the top reason for many big names) and of course by Levi. No offense but the ToC might seem like a better race to Lance fans and those who don't know much about racing IMO. I'd still be happy if a race like it was local to me but it's no Grand Tour.


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## diarrheaawareness (Mar 31, 2010)

:thumbsup:


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## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

Coolhand said:


> And another rider opts for the ToC over the Giro.
> 
> http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/03/news/cav-to-compete-in-california_110014
> 
> HTC still will send a squad to the Giro though.


Not that big of a surprise, since Cav would've stayed at the Giro maybe for week and a half and then left. Now he could do the ToC and remain for the duration of the race.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

MG537 said:


> Not that big of a surprise, since Cav would've stayed at the Giro maybe for week and a half and then left. Now he could do the ToC and remain for the duration of the race.


Exactly! For the last couple of years Cav has won a couple of stages then dropped out. The Giro has never been that important to him. Winning Green in the TdF is his goal this year. What's two or three more Giro stage wins to him at this stage in his career.

As for Giro v ToC. You've got to be kidding! The Giro is almost always a wonderful race and spectacle + the Europeans have much better presentation skills and massively superior camera work for the TV audience, Last year's presentation of the ToC was Amateur Hour personified.


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## Tater Salad (Mar 31, 2010)

diarrheaawareness said:


> great news. the giro is neglected and rightly so by all the important riders this year. the armstrong effect? indeed. the giro is too dangerous and too "European". their gt status should be transferred to ToC, which packs a much stronger field and attracts bigger stars,(RS etc).
> Dont mean to insult anybody but somebody got to speak the Truth here.:idea:


Is this an attempt at comedy?? If not, I suggest your perspective is a bit provincial and misinformed. The Giro is simply the second most important stage race in the world, and has been for the better part of a century.

ToC is a nice race, the best new race on the calendar. I go to multiple stages every year and love it. It's a good race to ride if your goal is the Tour. But your comments about the status transfer, the field and "danger" of the Giro? Respectfully, you need some perspective.


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## a_avery007 (Jul 1, 2008)

obviously Cav knows who pays his bills.

Most of the talent will be at the ToC whether people want to acknoledge it or not.

the Giro is a great race, will always be, but California just has so much more $$$ and exposure it is not even funny.

dont believe me, when i put my house up for an even swap for someone in Europe, in 2000, my email box filled up in 1 week with over 200 requests... i live in Santa Cruz, 200 meters from the water...lol

anyway, both will be great to watch.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

spade2you said:


> Color me surprised that the ToC is attracting the riders over the Giro. I suppose that means Griepel is going to be working his butt off at the Giro and play second fiddle at the TdF.


Surprised here as well.

I guess it makes sense in terms of tour prep, but it's a lot of unnecessary travel. The European racing calendar is pretty empty that time of year (aside from the Giro), so maybe this decision will work out for the ToC. I've gone from down on the idea of moving the date to slightly skeptical.


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## slamy (Mar 15, 2004)

ToC is a great race for sponsors. They get some North American exposure. Plus I think for riders it's a more fun race. The roads are new and wide, and the hotels are top notch compared to the dumps they stay at in Europe. If I was a pro, I would would want to ride it. And it's different. Almost all the races they do year long is in Europe, this is a nice change for them.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

albert owen said:


> Exactly! For the last couple of years Cav has won a couple of stages then dropped out. The Giro has never been that important to him. Winning Green in the TdF is his goal this year. What's two or three more Giro stage wins to him at this stage in his career.


From a sprinter's perspective, the 2nd half of the Giro wasn't suited for them. It's not that the Giro isn't important, but he left when the sprint finishes were over. The TdF is much better about keeping the sprinters happy throughout.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

SilasCL said:


> Surprised here as well.
> 
> I guess it makes sense in terms of tour prep, but it's a lot of unnecessary travel. The European racing calendar is pretty empty that time of year (aside from the Giro), so maybe this decision will work out for the ToC. I've gone from down on the idea of moving the date to slightly skeptical.


The better Tour prep angle and the sponsor friendly angle seem to be the biggest factors. It probably fits the training schedule better for riders aiming for the Tour, and thus is going to get a lot of the bigger Tour names as well. Yet another way le Tour is hosing the Giro.

As long as the tifosi support the Giro, it will be fine. But every year they lose more ground on the TdF. Will the race be for those either too young, too old or too slow for the TdF?


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

A sprinter on an American team whose had a lousy start to his season and doesn't fancy another week of huge climbs ahead of the TdF - I'm all kinds of shocked :wink:

He generally rides the Tour of Britain too but I don't think anyone starts banging on about that race being a credible competitor to the Vuelta.


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## wiz525 (Dec 31, 2007)

Wait, the Vuelta still exists?!?!


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

Tater Salad said:


> Selfishly, as a ToC homer, this is great news. And Mick Rogers is coming as well. It's a good option for those focusing on the Tour. Glad I'll get to watch a good field race about a mile from my house!
> 
> Not great news for the much grander race, the Giro. Ah well, it will hold up.


+1. It will be great watching those guys. I plan to drive up to the 18 going up to Big Bear to watch them. Better view for everyone and I will be close enough to take pictures within 15 feet of the riders. Sweet!


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

a_avery007 said:


> obviously Cav knows who pays his bills.
> 
> Most of the talent will be at the ToC whether people want to acknoledge it or not.
> 
> ...


There will be less coverage of the ToC than the Giro, guaranteed. Giro is watched in the whole of Europe. In Italy it is live all day for most stages. Even if you only count the countries that are traditionally cycling nations, the population is higher than the US. Couple that with the likelihood that there is a higher proportion of that population who are interested in watching racing in Europe and you see that the Giro has nothing to worry about from the ToC.

It will be on in bars all over Italy live, but I doubt you'll be able to walk into any old diner or bar in the US and see the ToC on the TV unless you ask.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

ultimobici said:


> There will be less coverage of the ToC than the Giro, guaranteed. Giro is watched in the whole of Europe. In Italy it is live all day for most stages. Even if you only count the countries that are traditionally cycling nations, the population is higher than the US. Couple that with the likelihood that there is a higher proportion of that population who are interested in watching racing in Europe and you see that the Giro has nothing to worry about from the ToC.
> 
> It will be on in bars all over Italy live, but I doubt you'll be able to walk into any old diner or bar in the US and see the ToC on the TV unless you ask.


Agreed- interest will be high in Italy. But how much in other countries? And what is the trend in viewership number in those countries. Without any "big" names and if there is only Italian teams and a bunch of ProTour junior varsity, I imagine viewership will suffer outside Italy (probably all the more reason to take less ProTour teams and more Italian wild card teams).

Another thing that would make sense is waiting until AFTER the Tdf selects teams to pick theirs.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Coolhand said:


> Agreed- interest will be high in Italy. But how much in other countries? And what is the trend in viewership number in those countries. Without any "big" names and if there is only Italian teams and a bunch of ProTour junior varsity, I imagine viewership will suffer outside Italy (probably all the more reason to take less ProTour teams and more Italian wild card teams).
> 
> Another thing that would make sense is waiting until AFTER the Tdf selects teams to pick theirs.


I doubt there will be many people sitting up to 11pm to see TOC compared to the numbers that would watch the giro in the afternoon.


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

Coolhand said:


> Agreed- interest will be high in Italy. But how much in other countries? And what is the trend in viewership number in those countries. Without any "big" names and if there is only Italian teams and a bunch of ProTour junior varsity, I imagine viewership will suffer outside Italy (probably all the more reason to take less ProTour teams and more Italian wild card teams).
> 
> Another thing that would make sense is waiting until AFTER the Tdf selects teams to pick theirs.


What you're missing is that there is a different attitude to the sport in Europe - people will tune in for the beauty of the race, the parcours, the exploits _not_ to see specific riders. The tifosi are crazy about the _sport_ not whether a British sprinter is there.


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

One of the reasons Cavendish is dropping the Giro is that he feels the World's parcours suits him this year - so instead of stage hunting in Italy, he'll be stage hunting at the Vuelta as great prep for the World's. His season is far more focused on the back end than expanding his palmares in the first 2 GTs this year. Once he has the Rainbow Jersey I'm sure he'll be back to wreak havoc at the Giro next year :wink:

Ultimately, Cavendish knows - as any great sprinter does - that history will judge him on what he achieves in the GTs and the World's not the little races.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

den bakker said:


> I doubt there will be many people sitting up to 11pm to see TOC compared to the numbers that would watch the giro in the afternoon.


Do we know what Versus is doing for coverage for the ToC this year?


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Coolhand said:


> Do we know what Versus is doing for coverage for the ToC this year?


we know what time the stages end so we know what time it will be in europe, where viewers would be stolen from the Giro.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

Bianchigirl said:


> What you're missing is that there is a different attitude to the sport in Europe - people will tune in for the beauty of the race, the parcours, the exploits _not_ to see specific riders. The tifosi are crazy about the _sport_ not whether a British sprinter is there.


+1 :thumbsup: 

And, come the end of his career Cav will be prouder of his Giro wins than anything he manages in the ToC. 
I'm a big Cavendish fan, but if I had to choose between watching the ToC or the Giro, it would be no contest. The Giro would win every time - great racing + wonderful scenery + atmosphere + much better camera work. Last year's ToC was boring in spite of having several "big names" along.

Money talks, but it cannot sing


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

den bakker said:


> we know what time the stages end so we know what time it will be in europe, where viewers would be stolen from the Giro.


People watch the Giro in the US too. Well, we used to. Universal isn't as widely available. . 

Heck, I would happy watch both of them if I could.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Coolhand said:


> People watch the Giro in the US too. Well, we used to. Universal isn't as widely available. .
> 
> Heck, I would happy watch both of them if I could.


"But how much in other countries? And what is the trend in viewership number in those countries. Without any "big" names and if there is only Italian teams and a bunch of ProTour junior varsity, I imagine viewership will suffer outside Italy (probably all the more reason to take less ProTour teams and more Italian wild card teams)." 
Funny, I thought we spoke about other countries to include more than the US. In fact Bianchigirl specifically said Europe so that would be a reasonable assumption that was what we talked about.


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## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

den bakker said:


> I doubt there will be many people sitting up to 11pm to see TOC compared to the numbers that would watch the giro in the afternoon.


Assuming that the ToC is actually televized, which it isn't. To be frank it doesn't generate more interest in the public here than the Tour Down Under or de Ronde van Belgie, except for the peeps in Belgie who seem to have an inexplicable interest in de Ronde van Belgie.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

rogger said:


> Assuming that the ToC is actually televized, which it isn't. To be frank it doesn't generate more interest in the public here than the Tour Down Under or de Ronde van Belgie, except for the peeps in Belgie who seem to have an inexplicable interest in de Ronde van Belgie.


so there is a cycling event sporza won't show? I was starting to wonder 
of course you are biased since the giro more or less go through your backyard


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## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

den bakker said:


> so there is a cycling event sporza won't show? I was starting to wonder
> of course you are biased since the giro more or less go through your backyard


Backyard is stretching it a bit, but they do pass about a kilometer from my home.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

rogger said:


> Backyard is stretching it a bit, but they do pass about a kilometer from my home.


Dang, that must be nice. :thumbsup:


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Coolhand said:


> Dang, that must be nice. :thumbsup:


thought it was an irrelevant race now with only a few italians and otherwise packfill


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

den bakker said:


> thought it was an irrelevant race now with only a few italians and otherwise packfill


Didn't say irrelevant, just vastly diminished compared to the TdF. And down enough from the past that another major race would schedule against them and pull a nice selection of TdF bound elites. 

BTW- are you claiming the Giro is in any way the equal of the TdF? Other than duration? Would another major race dream of scheduling against it? Would anyone skip it for another event? Of course not. 

The VUELTA, now _that's_ irrelevant. Were you confusing the two discussions?


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Coolhand said:


> Didn't say irrelevant, just vastly diminished compared to the TdF. And down enough from the past that another major race would schedule against them and pull a nice selection of TdF bound elites.
> 
> BTW- are you claiming the Giro is in any way the equal of the TdF? Other than duration? Would another major race dream of scheduling against it? Would anyone skip it for another event? Of course not.
> 
> The VUELTA, now _that's_ irrelevant. Were you confusing the two discussions?


Not going to be dragged down and beaten by your experience. 
I think it's time for your favorite passtime, have a nice weekend.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

den bakker said:


> Not going to be dragged down and beaten by your experience.
> I think it's time for your favorite passtime, have a nice weekend.


You will be missed. I hope your weekend is enjoyable as well.


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## BassNBrew (Aug 4, 2008)

Why can't cycling have it's majors look like tennis and golf to an extant. Maybe the Giro and Veulta need to shorten their events so they're not so physicially demanding so the top pros could be competitve in each of them.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

BassNBrew said:


> Why can't cycling have it's majors look like tennis and golf to an extant. Maybe the Giro and Veulta need to shorten their events so they're not so physicially demanding so the top pros could be competitve in each of them.


Quite a few riders have been competitive in all 3 GT's. Marino Lejaretta regularly finished in the top 10 of each. The day Cycling stoops to become like golf and tennis, I'll hang up my wheels.


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## BassNBrew (Aug 4, 2008)

ultimobici said:


> Quite a few riders have been competitive in all 3 GT's. Marino Lejaretta regularly finished in the top 10 of each. The day Cycling stoops to become like golf and tennis, I'll hang up my wheels.


Why? You have a problem with the best in the world facing off at 4 premier events? You prefer the tdf being basically one championship for all the marbles?


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

BassNBrew said:


> Why? You have a problem with the best in the world facing off at 4 premier events? You prefer the tdf being basically one championship for all the marbles?


Wouldn't say the TdF is that big yet. The Giro needs to be 3 weeks - it's a GT. It's only 6 years younger than the Tour but only 4 editions short. If it's shortened to 2 weeks or less how can it be a GT any more? The TdF has got huge since the 90's but it was in the doldrums in the 80's. The Giro needs to be left at 3 weeks, but due to Italy's geography it is easy to make it exciting. The Tour by contrast bores the crap out of me. March to June is where the real racing is for me, July is a snooze.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

I remember when I first heard the ToC was changing to a different date and thought "awesome- now they'll have better weather"... 
but then I discovered the specific date and the interfering w/ the Giro d'Italia and thought "WTF? Why'd they do _that_?!" 

I mean, of all the days of nice weather in Cali, that was the only time that worked?
Really?

Now if they're *intentionally* trying to kill off a Grand Tour, make it later in the year- the Vuelta would be easy pickin's!! :lol:


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## BassNBrew (Aug 4, 2008)

ultimobici said:


> Wouldn't say the TdF is that big yet. The Giro needs to be 3 weeks - it's a GT. It's only 6 years younger than the Tour but only 4 editions short. If it's shortened to 2 weeks or less how can it be a GT any more? The TdF has got huge since the 90's but it was in the doldrums in the 80's. The Giro needs to be left at 3 weeks, but due to Italy's geography it is easy to make it exciting. The Tour by contrast bores the crap out of me. March to June is where the real racing is for me, July is a snooze.


Problem is the Giro has turned in the British Open without Tiger, Westwood, Els, Harrington, and Mickelson. You ask how the Giro can be a GT if it's only two weeks...how can it be a GT without Sanchez, Contador, Armstrong, Cavs, Valverde, Voigt, Rogers, Cancellara?


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## hawking0001 (Apr 3, 2010)

*climbs*

who needs cav and amstrong when you have the Zoncolan and Kronoplatz:idea:


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

BassNBrew said:


> Problem is the Giro has turned in the British Open without Tiger, Westwood, Els, Harrington, and Mickelson. You ask how the Giro can be a GT if it's only two weeks...how can it be a GT without Sanchez, Contador, Armstrong, Cavs, Valverde, Voigt, Rogers, Cancellara?


Let's examine the list - either Sanchez is an asset to a race, Contador probably the best stage racer in the world at the moment but the rest of your list? Seriously? Besides the fact Valverde is grounded, none of the rest are GC contenders anyway. Voigt is a great attraction but you know he's ridden in races like the Tour of Poitou Charentes in his time :wink: You're ignoring a whole host of exciting young riders by saying that the riders in your list are the only riders who make a GT a GT.

The real problem that ToC has is that it had the opportunity to provide a tasty week long parcours and royally blew it - once it has a parcours to touch that of the Giro, then you can start talking about it as a contender - whilst it has a softly softly approach, attracts riders who are only interested in the sunshine and an easy parcours and have no real GC ambitions and officials willing to bend any number of rules to allow local boy Levi to win then it won't really have the credibility of the GTs :wink:


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## BassNBrew (Aug 4, 2008)

Bianchigirl said:


> Let's examine the list - either Sanchez is an asset to a race, Contador probably the best stage racer in the world at the moment but the rest of your list? Seriously? Besides the fact Valverde is grounded, none of the rest are GC contenders anyway. Voigt is a great attraction but you know he's ridden in races like the Tour of Poitou Charentes in his time :wink: You're ignoring a whole host of exciting young riders by saying that the riders in your list are the only riders who make a GT a GT.
> 
> The real problem that ToC has is that it had the opportunity to provide a tasty week long parcours and royally blew it - once it has a parcours to touch that of the Giro, then you can start talking about it as a contender - whilst it has a softly softly approach, attracts riders who are only interested in the sunshine and an easy parcours and have no real GC ambitions and officials willing to bend any number of rules to allow local boy Levi to win then it won't really have the credibility of the GTs :wink:


LOL. I'll give you the 330 riders currently listed as Giro riders and I'll take everyone else who failed to make the cut of entering the first GT of the year. I should have included Andy in the list to capture the entire 2009 TdF podium that couldn't be bothered with showing up for the sport's second biggest event of the year.

Is a golf major a major without Tiger, Paddy, Mick, Westwood, Ernie? Is a tennis grand slam event really a GS event without Nadal or Federer? The parcours might make the event for you but quality of the field is the driver for me.

I'm not sure why you quoted me and then decided to attack the ToC. The ToC has nothing to do with the real problem of why the Giro is a joke and cycling can't get it's stuff together to field it's best riders at a Grand Tour event.


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

BassNBrew said:


> LOL. I'll give you the 330 riders currently listed as Giro riders and I'll take everyone else who failed to make the cut of entering the first GT of the year. I should have included Andy in the list to capture the entire 2009 TdF podium that couldn't be bothered with showing up for the sport's second biggest event of the year.
> 
> Is a golf major a major without Tiger, Paddy, Mick, Westwood, Ernie? Is a tennis grand slam event really a GS event without Nadal or Federer? The parcours might make the event for you but quality of the field is the driver for me.
> 
> I'm not sure why you quoted me and then decided to attack the ToC. The ToC has nothing to do with the real problem of why the *Giro is a joke* and cycling can't get it's stuff together to field it's best riders at a Grand Tour event.


Were the physical demands of a 3 week cycling tour similar to those of a tennis or golf tournament, your contention might hold water. But they're not. Even Sastre had to call it quits after riding 5 GTs in a row :wink: It's not that riders 'can't be bothered' to turn up for the Giro but may not be physically capable of matching its demands - Andy Schleck has just had knee surgery, I should think facing the demands of the Giro is too much too soon, wouldn't you?

I think the parcours makes the race because it's what gives the riders their opportunity to shine - I'd be more than happy to watch the pro conti teams fight it out at a GT if it promised racing with commitment and heart and guts. Anything but the defensive, percentage performances that categorise so much top level sport. 

As for your assertion that the Giro is a joke - seriously, have you ever watched it? Were you not captured last year by the battle between Di Luca and Menchov, the fight for every bonus second, the drama of the last TT? As neither made your somewhat arbitrary list of 'riders that make a GC' I assume that watching a twice GT winner vs a multiple Classics winner battle it out can't be compelling because they're somehow not 'top rated'. If that kind of racing makes a GT a 'joke' well I'm happy to keep laughing at it :wink:


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## BassNBrew (Aug 4, 2008)

Bianchigirl said:


> Were the physical demands of a 3 week cycling tour similar to those of a tennis or golf tournament, your contention might hold water. But they're not. Even Sastre had to call it quits after riding 5 GTs in a row :wink: It's not that riders 'can't be bothered' to turn up for the Giro but may not be physically capable of matching its demands - Andy Schleck has just had knee surgery, I should think facing the demands of the Giro is too much too soon, wouldn't you?
> 
> I think the parcours makes the race because it's what gives the riders their opportunity to shine - I'd be more than happy to watch the pro conti teams fight it out at a GT if it promised racing with commitment and heart and guts. Anything but the defensive, percentage performances that categorise so much top level sport.
> 
> As for your assertion that the Giro is a joke - seriously, have you ever watched it? Were you not captured last year by the battle between Di Luca and Menchov, the fight for every bonus second, the drama of the last TT? As neither made your somewhat arbitrary list of 'riders that make a GC' I assume that watching a twice GT winner vs a multiple Classics winner battle it out can't be compelling because they're somehow not 'top rated'. If that kind of racing makes a GT a 'joke' well I'm happy to keep laughing at it :wink:


Yeah the Di Luca and Menchov battle was epic. Looking forward to the rematch.

Oh...don't tell me there won't be a rematch. Are either of them entered this year? I guess I get to add them to my TdF list...you get the Giro field at the TdF. I didn't realize the Giro start list was even this poor this year. It would be like comparing the Hooter's tour to the PGA tour....well a Hooter's tour with pancours. 

Look, I have nothing personal v. the Giro. I like the course better than the TdF. But for whatever reason the TdF totally dwarfs the Giro in importance. The cycling heads of state need to get off their collective arses and figure out what it will take to get the riders interested in attending the GTs. Personally I think they need some type of points system where the winners of the green, yellow, and polka dot for the year across a slew of events get some type of huge paycheck. The GTs could be worth 3x points compared to regular events. That type of system would suddenly bring a huge interest back to the Giro and the Vuelta.


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## PhatTalc (Jul 21, 2004)

BassNBrew said:


> Yeah the Di Luca and Menchov battle was epic. Looking forward to the rematch.
> 
> Oh...don't tell me there won't be a rematch. Are either of them entered this year? I guess I get to add them to my TdF list...you get the Giro field at the TdF. I didn't realize the Giro start list was even this poor this year. It would be like comparing the Hooter's tour to the PGA tour....well a Hooter's tour with pancours.
> 
> Look, I have nothing personal v. the Giro. I like the course better than the TdF. But for whatever reason the TdF totally dwarfs the Giro in importance. The cycling heads of state need to get off their collective arses and figure out what it will take to get the riders interested in attending the GTs. Personally I think they need some type of points system where the winners of the green, yellow, and polka dot for the year across a slew of events get some type of huge paycheck. The GTs could be worth 3x points compared to regular events. That type of system would suddenly bring a huge interest back to the Giro and the Vuelta.


DiLuca is on a ban, which is why he isn't on the Giro start list. He would definitely ride otherwise. 

Do you mean "regular" events like the RvV or the Paris Roubaix? They are as important as the tour for many cycling fans. The last thing that should happen to cycling is that it becomes like golf or tennis. It is an amazing sport the way it is, with the ToC a part of that.
I guess my main thoughts on this thread are that I simply don't see any big changes occurring, in the sense that the tour is still the big one, the Giro the lesser one and so on. The ToC hasn't changed anything really. As people have already pointed out, it's hardly surprising that Cav is racing the ToC - it's not really a problem for the Giro. Check out the provisional Giro start list - it is a top field.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

It's clear that a one-week race in California is not competition to a GT in Italy. It's a viable alternative for those who, for whatever reason, are not interested in racing the Giro. In this context "viable" means well-organized, a strong field, good fan interest, etc.

The larger question is how the AToC will proceed from here. AEG have openly stated it is their intent to eventually make the race equivalent to a GT. Their game-plan has unfolded methodically and successfully thus far. With several years to hone the organizational aspects, towns are now vying for participation, They have expanded number of stages to the maximum possible for a one-week tour. The date has been moved to allow more terrain to be included and the assurance of better luck with weather. 

Presuming the May date is successful, as it now appears it could be, what must happen to continue the progression to GT status? Is a two-week tour beneficial or does it necessarily have to be three weeks in order to be "important"? Wouild two weeks in May detract from the main benefit of presenting an alternative program for TdF-bound riders? If it needs to be three weeks, when would it be held? If in May, its up against the Giro, if in September, it's up against the Vuelta, if in June or August, it's too close the TdF, no?

Just wonderin'...

JSR


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

As an alternative to the Giro as TdF preparation ToC doesn't really need to do anything - certainly not get tougher or longer - if it does either of those things, the Euros who currently can just about logistically justify a trip to California for a week won't bother - they may as well stick with domestic European races.

If the ToC wants to become a GT then it needs a) a calendar change b) a much, much better parcours c) a much, much stronger GC contender field d) different commisars (seriously, the 'let's change the rules so Leipheimer can win' shenanigans don't do it any favours e) wait around for a good few years to see whether it's truly sustainable post Armstrong/Leipheimer - Georgia wasn't and what happened to that. Personally I don't think the calendar can sustain a 4th GT.

Of course the sport needs new sponsors and new races but the assumption that something new is always better than what already exists is not always a wise one. Other sports could learn a great deal from cycling (the superior dope testing in cycling to either golf or tennis springs readily to mind :wink - not always smart to be bamboozled by McQuaid and his globalisation plans.


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## PhatTalc (Jul 21, 2004)

Cavendish said this to cyclingnews : "I didn't make the choice [to ride California]. I love Italy, I love the Giro but I'm paid to do this now, so I have to do it."


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