# TdF Stage 5 Jul 9 Discuss'n Thread (spoiler alert)



## PJay (May 28, 2004)

TdF Stage 5 Jul 9 Discuss'n Thread (spoiler alert)

This is a flat 100 miles, but it is riddled with cobblestone sections. The cobblestones give us RBR folk the opportunity to argue endlessly about whether it should be in Le Tour or not. Only Team Time Trials brings more joy.

There have been a lot of spills already on narrow, twisty roads, and these pieces of pavement posterity are sure to bring the spills. Also, plenty of flats and mechanicals. We will see who has Lady Luck riding along. GC contenders almost cannot drop in standings very far as long as team support car is near, so overall major shake-ups are unlikely, but may happen.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Froome had a stem-sighted oopsy that may end up mattering lots later.


Ofc, Schleck is out now stemming from a idiot-filming-with-his-idiotphone crash yesterday...but no one is allowed to make a smart remark about it or criticize him for it...because no one on this forum is a professional, or has crashed at speed before, and therefore no one understands how hard it is having "Schleck" as their last name.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Too bad everyone felt like wheelsucking today and only 2 guys went for a break. Woulda loved to see Tommy V with a better shot at the win.


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

Marc said:


> Too bad everyone felt like wheelsucking today and only 2 guys went for a break. Woulda loved to see Tommy V with a better shot at the win.


Good point. It is pretty clear who is not a threat. Everyone knew someone would try to break away. The tour will not be decided tomorrow. Teams should have asked their guys who feels lucky today - then go jump in the break.

There should have been a dozen, and Voekler plus that dozen could have won it for Voekler.


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## juno (Jul 18, 2008)

This should be an interesting stage from a prediction standpoint?
Will Fabs blast it out?
How will the GC folk make out?
Kind of torn because the cobbles can cause great disparagy in the field. Great to watch though!

I am Voight to steal a win!


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

That would be stupid - going for a break today was suicidal. Or megalomaniacal - only if you want your face on TV for 140K before getting caught in the last 10K. If you really value that, go for it. If you value winning a stage, wait for another day.
You have a flat stage, with lots of sprinters teams still hungry, still intact for the most part, plus GC teams, especially Astana that want to keep it the way it is (but also BMC, Trek, Cannondale who may well get into yellow tomorrow so they have incentive to chase too), but since sprinter teams are taking a big break tomorrow, they might as well go for it today. Breakaway was doomed to begin with. 

Also, there is no way the peloton would have "let" a dozen riders go. Since the first hour of stage is not typically televised, most people have a very distorted opinion of the effort it actually takes to get into a break away. It's not like you just ride away at leisurely pace and everyone is too sleepy or lazy or tired to chase. It takes a superhuman, sprint-at-1,000+ Watts for as long as you can and then hammer at 800 Watts an then at 600 Watts and then some more effort, and a collective agreement of the ENTIRE peloton that the rider does not present a threat and should be allowed to go. Otherwise they easily shut the whole thing down. In like 10 seconds. Today clearly the sprinters team were ok with a breakaway of 2, 3 maybe 5 riders tops. They would be glad to give them 2-3, maybe even 5 minutes, as long as they had about 3min with 30K to go, 2 min with 20K to go, and 1min with 10K to go. 

Bottom line, the peloton had this one wrapped up. No need to even try anything.


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## Alfonsina (Aug 26, 2012)

What time do you think they will get to the first lot of cobbles? (frenchy time will do but MST would be even better LOL). I am trying to get an AM ride in LOL.


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## ogre (Dec 16, 2005)

I bet Saxo-Tinkov keeps Contador in front all day. If memory serves me, he got burned for a couple of minutes on the the pave a couple years ago.


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

I hope Fabu is right and it is carnage. Not the injury type of carnagae, but chaotic fighting for the front with skinny cimbers putting forth massive efforts to protect their GC men carnage. Should be full gas from the start with Fabu battling OPQS for the final places methinks.


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## dwt (Apr 2, 2002)

I have heard rain & wet cobbles forecast. If so, you've got your carnage guaranteed. How many of the riders who never raced Roubaix or Flanders can really handle wet, muddy cobbles? It will be a nightmare for the team mechanics


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

two sections removed from the stage because of rain. so they can race down a six foot wide mountain side with no guard rails, as they did last year, but, OMG--wet cobbles!

Two cobbled sectors removed from stage 5 of Tour de France due to weather conditions | Cyclingnews.com


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

Race starts 1:45 CET. 87K to get to cobbles, so probably around 3:45PM French time?


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Wonder how Froome's wrist is going to handle the cobbles today. This is going to be a great race today, and can't wait to see Cancellara show the riders how to do it. Garmin has a good cobble rider too (Vansummeren), we will see how Talansky handles them.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

love4himies said:


> Froome hits the deck again. Don't know what he's going to do when he hits the cobbles.


Yea...today is not a day to be staring at your stem...


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Froome hits the deck again. Don't know what he's going to do when he hits the cobbles.


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## mambo (Jul 29, 2012)

He'll just have to get up yet again and ride behind the team car and his team mates to get back on!


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

mambo said:


> He'll just have to get up yet again and ride behind the team car and his team mates to get back on!



I had to laugh at that...his entire ****ing team came back to him and they all were surfing behind the car. You don't need both. Further I think having his entire team around him would be worse when surfing. After all there are more stems to stare at.


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## Rokh On (Oct 30, 2011)

Sucks for him going down again. At least it was his right side and not left.


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## mambo (Jul 29, 2012)

I thinks it's at the three strikes and your out point now. How many times should his rivals have to wait for him. Gentlemanly sportsmanship can only go so far. They had the perfect excuse - _"we were chasing the break"_ I know if it was me (ie: I was Contador or Nibali) with a chance of winning the TdF and my biggest rival fell for a third time, I'd be talking to my other main rival and get both teams working on the front to eliminate him. He was a minute behind after his fall. It's clear the falling is his own fault. If they had decided to go for it, he'd be losing 12 to 15 minutes at the line...end of TdF for Froome.

Let's see what happens on the cobbles....


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## mambo (Jul 29, 2012)

Marc said:


> I had to laugh at that...his entire ****ing team came back to him and they all were surfing behind the car. You don't need both. Further I think having his entire team around him would be worse when surfing. After all there are more stems to stare at.



there I was hoping you'd think I was psychic! He he...


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

love4himies said:


> Froome hits the deck again. Don't know what he's going to do when he hits the cobbles.


don't they have carbon fibre training wheels?


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## Skewer (Sep 13, 2011)

Lots of crashes going on. This will be an entertaining stage. Kittel crashes at the end, Sagan wins a stage, finally.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Skewer said:


> Lots of crashes going on. This will be an entertaining stage. Kittel crashes at the end, Sagan wins a stage, finally.


Nope...kittel went down just now


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## Skewer (Sep 13, 2011)

I would have picked a 29er full suspension mountain bike with 28mm road bike tires for this stage. The nuts are gonna be hurting.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Skewer said:


> I would have picked a 29er full suspension mountain bike with 28mm road bike tires for this stage. The nuts are gonna be hurting.


Many of these guys are running 28mm tubs at low pressure already according to team wrench interviews


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Down went Froome again

Hard this time.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Froome is down again. I'm starting to think he's not going to make it through the day today.


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

wow! if it were a boxing match, the ref would give froome a 8 second count. edit: throw in the towel.

paging mr brailsford: have you seen bradley wiggins?


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## mambo (Jul 29, 2012)

Froome out!


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Froome may be out.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Looks like he might not be getting back on


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Oh he is hurting.


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## Skewer (Sep 13, 2011)

This stage is brutal.


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## JimT (Jul 18, 2007)

Wow, this is bad! They're getting slammed, not a Froome fan but I feel sorry for him!


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

He's in the car, abandon.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Now what does Sky do? #regretnothavingwiggo?


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

Oh, the speculation will really be on now.....


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

This stage is great! It will separate the men from the boys.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Cobbles are here!


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Oh geesh, the British commentators are going on about Froome, almost like it wasn't his fault he abandoned. 

Nibali & Conti are looking strong.


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## tazzmacd (Feb 24, 2012)

Well this is going to shake up the over all now.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

Well wouldn't it be nice to have a plan B, huh Sky? 

Sucks. I was hoping to see Contador vs Froome in the mountains


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Damn shame. While I hate the Froome, it was Contador's only proper way to win this Tour.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

burgrat said:


> Well wouldn't it be nice to have a plan B, huh Sky?
> 
> Sucks. I was hoping to see Contador vs Froome in the mountains


:thumbsup: I bet Wiggo could handle the cobbles.


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## mambo (Jul 29, 2012)

burgrat said:


> Well wouldn't it be nice to have a plan B, huh Sky?
> 
> Sucks. I was hoping to see Contador vs Froome in the mountains


Me too. I was expecting Froome to lose time today, which would have possibly made the mountain stages even more exciting. Shame...


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## mambo (Jul 29, 2012)

Ventruck said:


> Damn shame. While I hate the Froome, it was Contador's only proper way to win this Tour.


Perhaps you didn't see the Dauphine...


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

burgrat said:


> Well wouldn't it be nice to have a plan B, huh Sky?
> 
> Sucks. I was hoping to see Contador vs Froome in the mountains


Would have been fun to watch Contador try.

That being said, given the English-speaking commentators (Both US and Eurosport) tendency to go gaga over Froome (and Cav TBH)...their dropping out will make things easier to listen to.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

mambo said:


> Perhaps you didn't see the Dauphine...


I've seen parts of it, and was aware AC was looking better.

But Froome's presence still matters. He could've started peaking late this Tour despite being a bit battered already.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Marc said:


> Would have been fun to watch Contador try.
> 
> That being said, given the English-speaking commentators (Both US and Eurosport) tendency to go gaga over Froome (and Cav TBH)...their dropping out will make things easier to listen to.


Right now I've had enough of them talking about how hard Froome had it.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

love4himies said:


> Right now I've had enough of them talking about how hard Froome had it.


This is nothing. I say that as a regular watcher/listener of Eurosport for years.


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

love4himies said:


> Oh geesh, the British commentators are going on about Froome, almost like it wasn't his fault he abandoned.
> 
> Nibali & Conti are looking strong.


According to the commentary, it's Canondale's fault for intense pace and lack of consideration for Froome's welfare. 

I did predict Froome woundn't go the distance, but around stage 13.


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## Brougham (Sep 26, 2012)

I would love to know what Wiggins is thinking right now.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Ventruck said:


> Damn shame. While I hate the Froome, it was Contador's only proper way to win this Tour.


Yes, that would have been nice to see. Even a Nibali/Froome/Contador/Talansky fight in the mountains would have been great to watch.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Brougham said:


> I would love to know what Wiggins is thinking right now.


He's probably kept this from the Olympics and is sitting it in his living room.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Brougham said:


> I would love to know what Wiggins is thinking right now.


Probably snickering.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Froome's a tool. Karma and all that. Sky is very likely sh*tting their pants right now. Wiggins is asking for a bigger contract. 

Going to be a great tour still.

I'm happy this morning.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

Brougham said:


> I would love to know what Wiggins is thinking right now.


Wondering why in the world he left Garmin 3 seasons ago.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

Marc said:


> Now what does Sky do? #regretnothavingwiggo?


Find a better team manager.


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## dwt (Apr 2, 2002)

Retro Grouch said:


> According to the commentary, it's Canondale's fault for intense pace and lack of consideration for Froome's welfare.


"OK, mates. Lets take it easy on the cobbles. Neutralize the stage so clumsy Chris Froome won't fall off his bike". Sure, that makes as much sense as SKY sitting up on a climb so they wouldn't shell GC contenders 

I'm firmly in the camp of testing total skills in a stage race. Watching Froome and UK Postal dominate the peloton in Mtn stages and ITT made for some boring TdF last few years. Froome and whatever drugs he was on could fake it in the mtns and ITT SO BORING. Drugs might increase VO2 and stamina but they don't make you into a good bike handler


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

robdamanii said:


> Froome's a tool. Karma and all that.


Brailsford is the tool by enabling Froome and not putting Wiggins on the TdF squad. 
Blunderford.


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## hfc (Jan 24, 2003)

Not a Froome fan but feel a little sorry for him. I suspect yesterday's injury was worse than they let on and the guy just couldn't handle his bike at that pace. 2 bad crashes like that today is more than just bad luck.

I kind of expected/wanted that Trek would hammer the peloton and shatter with cobbles/crosswinds before launching Spartacus. If they could get him a 5-10 minute win, he could wear the jersey for a week or so, especially as the GC teams wouldn't want to burn all their matches today. what does Trek have to lose?


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## Skewer (Sep 13, 2011)

sagan showing his skills over the cobblestones, wheeling and bunnyhopping to avoid endo'ing, stilll maintaining 29mph.


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## jaggrin (Feb 18, 2011)

I know everyone hates Armstrong but it shows that to finish first seven times in a row (even though afterwards you told you didn't due to PED's) requires a lot more than just PED's. To me it seems that Sky riders don't have the best bike handling skills. Wiggins was a disaster in the Giro last year. Maybe they need to ride single day races to get better bike handling skills and also do some mountain biking in the off season. I know you can't control the guy in front of you but positioning and knowing where to be to avoid trouble isn't something you get by training in Tenerife. Either is descending in wicked weather conditions. You get those by racing and while they have a lot of great results in the past couple of years it seems that if all isn't perfect then they don't overcome the obstacles.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

jaggrin said:


> I know everyone hates Armstrong but it shows that to finish first seven times in a row (even though afterwards you told you didn't due to PED's) requires a lot more than just PED's. To me it seems that Sky riders don't have the best bike handling skills. Wiggins was a disaster in the Giro last year. Maybe they need to ride single day races to get better bike handling skills and also do some mountain biking in the off season. I know you can't control the guy in front of you but positioning and knowing where to be to avoid trouble isn't something you get by training in Tenerife.


Even then...today the surface is **** due to weather...and risks were being taken that were just silly. Even with 28mm tires with a tread on them you don't bank turns at speed on a damp non-ramped paved road. Froome crashes were hard to see what caused them, but I'm doubtful remedial bike handling school would have prevented them.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Marc said:


> Froome had a stem-sighted oopsy that may end up mattering lots later.
> 
> 
> Ofc, Schleck is out now stemming from a idiot-filming-with-his-idiotphone crash yesterday...but no one is allowed to make a smart remark about it or criticize him for it...because no one on this forum is a professional, or has crashed at speed before, and therefore no one understands how hard it is having "Schleck" as their last name.


Awesome. Point well taken! :thumbsup:


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Crap, just heard the commentators say Nibali is in trouble then they went to commercial break.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

love4himies said:


> Crap, just heard the commentators say Nibali is in trouble then they went to commercial break.


yea. Whatever idiot hit the video switcher to send Eurosport to commercial...is probably the same one that approved of Poetry Corner.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

jeez, is it raining oil?


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Ventruck said:


> jeez, is it raining oil?


On wet roads populated by diesel engines...the roads get coated with particulates and water picks them up and makes the road slick as snot.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

robdamanii said:


> Froome's a tool. Karma and all that. Sky is very likely sh*tting their pants right now. Wiggins is asking for a bigger contract.
> 
> Going to be a great tour still.
> 
> I'm happy this morning.


As a non-rider I don't have the right to an opinion here but +1.

Conti vs Nibali vs Valverde vs Talansky - much more interesting storyline than the World vs Froomie and Sky for 21 Stages. 
Never like to see any rider get hurt though - hope Froomies injuries are not too bad.

Oh Wiggo our Wiggo, wherefore art thou?


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## Rokh On (Oct 30, 2011)

I saw the video Nibali. he looks ok.

They also were talking about someone from Garmin going off the back and thought he was abandoning but the team manager was screaming at him to get back in? Was that right?


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Can't wait to get home and watch this stage!


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## dwt (Apr 2, 2002)

Nibali looking solid today. If he puts serious time on Contador, Van Garderin , Porte, and Talansky today it will be interesting


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Front group currently has Terpstra, Sparticus, Sagan, VanMarcke. 

That's a lot of juice where Nibbles is hanging out.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

jaggrin said:


> I know everyone hates Armstrong


You could have stopped right there! :thumbsup:


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

I have not studied the final 10K - are the various echelons about to disappear? there are two strectches of cobble left? -


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

sagan and contador are both skilled riders, and good strategists. plus, i kind of believe that contador is avoiding the bad steak. so, this is shaping up to be a great year...


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Looks like Conti is going to lose over two minute to The Shark!


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## Skewer (Sep 13, 2011)

Sagan's got this with 9km to go. He's already thinking of his celebration.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

PJay said:


> sagan and contador are both skilled riders, and good strategists. plus, i kind of believe that contador is avoiding the bad steak. so, this is shaping up to be a great year...


Nibali has 2 minutes on Contador . jeepers his team are putting in a grind


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Skewer said:


> Sagan's got this with 9km to go. He's already thinking of his celebration.


Booms gunning for it. His TT to lose now.


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## dwt (Apr 2, 2002)

Thomas working hard to pull Porte into the race dropping Talansky and Contador


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Chapeau to Boom.

Contador starts loosing time


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

valverde still has potential for overall GC


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Boom takes the Stage but Astana and The Shark reap the rewards on GC.


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## mambo (Jul 29, 2012)

love4himies said:


> :thumbsup: I bet Wiggo could handle the cobbles.


But not Contador or Nibali in the mountains!


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

What a great stage today. Love it.


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## Roar (Sep 12, 2009)

Eurosport announcer "We know what those internet chat rooms can be like. Be kind to Froome. And indeed, his team..."

And there you have it....


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## mambo (Jul 29, 2012)

Brilliant! What a great few days we've had so far!!!

Nibali was an absolute monster today too.


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## dwt (Apr 2, 2002)

love4himies said:


> What a great stage today. Love it.


One for the ages. Watching grit and determination of Nibali makes it easy to forget fraud Froome


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

mambo said:


> But not Contador or Nibali in the mountains!


Well Contador is dropped from the top-10 GC. He has a task to come back from.


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

Roar said:


> Eurosport announcer "We know what those internet chat rooms can be like. Be kind to Froome. And indeed, his team..."
> 
> And there you have it....


Hey! I resemble that remark. I mean, I resent that remark!


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## r1lee (Jul 22, 2012)

love4himies said:


> :thumbsup: I bet Wiggo could handle the cobbles.


yeah, but he can't handle the rain.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

dwt said:


> One for the ages. Watching grit and determination of Nibali makes it easy to forget fraud Froome


"Fraud" Froome? Harsh. And you're convinced Nibali was all grit and determination?


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## dwt (Apr 2, 2002)

Roar said:


> Eurosport announcer "We know what those internet chat rooms can be like. Be kind to Froome. And indeed, his team..."
> 
> And there you have it....


I'll be kind to Richie Porte and Geraint Thomas


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

Westra didn't have a contract at the end of last year and has now almost single handedly destroyed the Tour, he was like a bulldozer today. Amazing ride by Astana, Vino's letter seems to have had the desired effect. We'll see how Nibali climbs in future stages.

Obligatory American comments: pleased to see Talansky and Tejay hung in there. There aren't too many solid climbers in front of them which is a good sign for their GC ambitions. It's early in the race, though. I won't count any chickens...


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

Love Nibali. Not very many people predicted that Nibali would put time not only into his GC rivals but also Sagan, Cancellara, Vanmarcke, and everybody except for Lars Boom. It is way too early to call the Tour but it isn't very often that you have a GC favorite with two minutes on the next of his legitimate rivals after five stages. The high power numbers are a significant advantage but sometimes grit wins. Nibali = the guy who wins when it gets too sh!tty for everybody else. 

Boom was excellent by the way.


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## dwt (Apr 2, 2002)

fornaca68 said:


> "Fraud" Froome? Harsh. And you're convinced Nibali was all grit and determination?


No way "just". But he had the skill to finish a monumentally difficult stage. Drugs can get you up a mountain faster and make you faster in ITT, but can't help your handling skills. Froome just has butt ugly riding form. He, Wiggins and UK Postal just tiresome. Porte and Thomas may also be doped, but have grit. I'm just tired of superhuman climbing and ITT. Hope Porte does well, dope or not. I also hope the GC stays tight and competitive and nobody just destroys the field


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

thechriswebb said:


> Love Nibali. Not very many people predicted that Nibali would put time not only into his GC rivals but also Sagan, Cancellara, Vanmarcke, and everybody except for Lars Boom. It is way too early to call the Tour but it isn't very often that you have a GC favorite with two minutes on the next of his legitimate rivals after five stages. The high power numbers are a significant advantage but sometimes grit wins. Nibali = the guy who wins when it gets too sh!tty for everybody else.
> 
> Boom was excellent by the way.


well said! :thumbsup: I'll take nibbbles every day attacking, taking risks over the "train ride to 2k sprint to the top of climb guys" any day.


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## dwt (Apr 2, 2002)

dnice said:


> well said! :thumbsup: I'll take nibbbles every day attacking, taking risks over the "train ride to 2k sprint to the top of climb guys" any day.


Totally agree. What kind of fun is it watching "train ride to 2k sprint at the top?" For US Americans, it was fun before the curtain was pulled away and we found out it was all about the dope. So when it was UK Postal doing that, we had no illusions, and were BORED STIFF. The sport is not clean by any means, of course, but Mano a/ Mano battles between a few doped riders trumps one team crushing everybody day after day. I'm thinking Port might rise to the occasion as Sky's new leader, but will not annihilate everybody like Wiggins and Froome did. The 1927 Yankees were great for NYC, but for everybody else, not so much. I'm ready for some mtn stage battles where the conclusions are not foregone


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

jaggrin said:


> I know everyone hates Armstrong but it shows that to finish first seven times in a row (even though afterwards you told you didn't due to PED's) requires a lot more than just PED's.


This is a very valid point, IMO.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Now we have a bike race... hat tip to Nibali, I've been among his doubters... hope he's clean.

Shame about poor Froome. He always seemed a bit fragile to me anyway but a nice enough fella.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

Roar said:


> Eurosport announcer "We know what those internet chat rooms can be like. Be kind to Froome. And indeed, his team..."
> 
> And there you have it....


Well, I can be kind to Froome at least, he never pretended to be something he wasn't. Brailsford, though, needs to be called out on this.
The Oracle of Delphi no longer, more like the little man behind the curtain in the Wizard of Oz.
We all knew Froome to be fragile, with various physical issues, and now frankly his bike handling has to be called into question after essentially crashing, what, four times in two races, and essentially crashing out of both of them.
It may be there was no stopping Nibali. This was an absolutely brilliant leg for him. But Brailsford had a viable Plan B in Wiggins, and should have told Froome that's how it's going to be. "It's going to cost us one place on the team, but we need a just-in-case, and Chris, I swear I will make sure you don't have to hang around with him, but it's the only sane thing to do. To leave a recent TDF winner in good form on the sidelines and to risk everything on one guy is not smart strategy, nor good business and at the end of the day, this is business."
Porte is a fine fellow, but he'll do well to finish top 10.


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## Crank-a-Roo (Mar 21, 2003)

Sucks to see Froome abandon the race. But it is a competition to see who has the best physical form and best riding skills. The course and weather beat Froome. Oh well and the race goes on.


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## bruin11 (May 21, 2004)

dwt said:


> Totally agree. What kind of fun is it watching "train ride to 2k sprint at the top?" For US Americans, it was fun before the curtain was pulled away and we found out it was all about the dope.


I didn't think it was fun when US Postal was doing this. I thought it was boring as hell.


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## harlond (May 30, 2005)

r1lee said:


> yeah, but he can't handle the rain.


+1 Wiggins was just awful on a rainy stage on good roads in the Giro recently and lost big time. Far from obvious he would have been in the front today.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

mpre53 said:


> Don't count on that. Phil and Paul must have mentioned Cav at least 8 times yesterday in the last 30 km.
> 
> I figure reminding us that Froome crashed out will last at least another 5 stages.


I'm left wondering about all the damn in-race segments they pre-filmed a majority of which focus on someone who is now no longer in the race.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

Marc said:


> Would have been fun to watch Contador try.
> 
> That being said, given the English-speaking commentators (Both US and Eurosport) tendency to go gaga over Froome (and Cav TBH)...their dropping out will make things easier to listen to.


Don't count on that. Phil and Paul must have mentioned Cav at least 8 times yesterday in the last 30 km.

I figure reminding us that Froome crashed out will last at least another 5 stages.


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## Rokh On (Oct 30, 2011)

love4himies said:


> What a great stage today. Love it.


I thought it was great also. Teejay didn't think so. Did you get a chance to see his post race interview?


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

thumper8888 said:


> Well, I can be kind to Froome at least, he never pretended to be something he wasn't. Brailsford, though, needs to be called out on this.
> The Oracle of Delphi no longer, more like the little man behind the curtain in the Wizard of Oz.
> We all knew Froome to be fragile, with various physical issues, and now frankly his bike handling has to be called into question after essentially crashing, what, four times in two races, and essentially crashing out of both of them.


The curse of Wiggo....

To be fair, I think Froomie started today in a world of hurt--and probably started with a broken bone in his wrist, so as we have seen so many times before, the effects of the previous day's crash has a big impact on today's performance. Not many of us are at our best handling a bike with a bad wrist--I had a ladder fall this spring and hyperextended and I am still in pain when I have to pull hard...


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## Buzzatronic (Mar 18, 2013)

What a crazy stage. Even my wife started getting interested. When Froome when down the second time she said "And he's not even on the cobbles yet!". A few months ago she hated when I watched bike racing. 

Bummer to see Talansky lose so much time but Nibali is on fire, what an amazing ride on the cobbles for a guy that isn't really know for that terrain.

Grats to Boom for taking the stage, it was certainly his to win with his cyclocross chops.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Rokh On said:


> I thought it was great also. Teejay didn't think so. Did you get a chance to see his post race interview?


No, I'm at work, so as soon as it was done, I turned it off.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

dwt said:


> No way "just". But he had the skill to finish a monumentally difficult stage. Drugs can get you up a mountain faster and make you faster in ITT, but can't help your handling skills. Froome just has butt ugly riding form. He, Wiggins and UK Postal just tiresome. Porte and Thomas may also be doped, but have grit. I'm just tired of superhuman climbing and ITT. Hope Porte does well, dope or not. I also hope the GC stays tight and competitive and nobody just destroys the field


I agree. This was a great stage that really required good bike handling skills to get through it unscathed. Watching them on those wet cobbles at the speeds they were going was a thing of beauty, but kept me on the edge of my seat at every corner. I took what could have been a boring flat stage to almost an extreme sport. 

Talansky surprised me, I thought he would have ploughed through the cobbles and was able to finish faster than he did. Who knows, maybe he had orders from his DS to not take risks. Hopefully there is some catch up to Nibali by the other GC contenders to make this a great race.


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## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

VV Squalo!


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

it's a real shame to see TJVG join the whiner's brigade.

Van Garderen feels Tour de France should not include cobbled stages | Cyclingnews.com


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

dnice said:


> it's a real shame to see TJVG join the whiner's brigade.
> 
> Van Garderen feels Tour de France should not include cobbled stages | Cyclingnews.com


Contrast that with Talanksy

Talanksy satisfied with Tour de France cobbled stage | Cyclingnews.com


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

dnice said:


> it's a real shame to see TJVG join the whiner's brigade.
> 
> Van Garderen feels Tour de France should not include cobbled stages | Cyclingnews.com


What a PUNK! HTFU!
Those cobbles are probably older than his Great-Grandparents.


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## gofast2wheeler (Oct 13, 2011)

Shame to see Froome out. Nibali I feel will not win Tour. TJ was never in the running in my eyes and still is not. I am going with Contador once we get to the mountains, and my second choice now is Rolland might be a surprise (good in the mountains).


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## SNS1938 (Aug 9, 2013)

thumper8888 said:


> ...We all knew Froome to be fragile, with various physical issues, and now frankly his bike handling has to be called into question after essentially crashing, what, four times in two races, and essentially crashing out of both of them...


Seems reminiscent of Wigan's in the Giro last year ... I blame the bike


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

The funny thing about this stage is that there were a buttload of crashes that occurred on pavement. The surfaces were extremely slick. It would have been carnage without any cobbles. There's no rain delay or cancellation in cycling fortunately! These guys need to look at the history books to see what previous guys used to do. Those guys were hard as nails!


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## DBT (Oct 31, 2008)

*Jens, what a "wimp"*

I guess we have to put Jens in the HTFU category, once he gets some rest.

Too Tired to Be Angry | Bicycling


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

DBT said:


> I guess we have to put Jens in the HTFU category, once he gets some rest.
> 
> Too Tired to Be Angry | Bicycling


In fairness, as the oldest man in the peloton...no one bounces as well as they used to. That includes crashes, and apparently cobbles.


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## pone (Sep 19, 2012)

is it really a situation of HTFU? it seems reasonable to me that a stage with that many crashes isn't going to be a rider favorite.


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## phoehn9111 (May 11, 2005)

Tour is ruined after just the fifth stage for this ridiculous historical prerogative
that places a higher priority on luck than rider fitness and heart. Road bicycles
are inherently poorly suited to negotiate a course of such condition. Even a 
mountain bike would have difficulty. Even the sprint stages are close to being
a sophomoric high school track meet. 
How did that sound? This is what my evil Darth Vader counterpart tells me
to say. Would have been great to see the Tour with all the significant GC
rivals in play until the end. That is my only true sentiment.


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## DBT (Oct 31, 2008)

Marc said:


> In fairness, as the oldest man in the peloton...no one bounces as well as they used to. That includes crashes, and apparently cobbles.


Just a reply to those questioning TJ. I do not doubt the hardness of anyone that is in the peloton. Jens especially.


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## coleman22 (Jul 30, 2013)

mpre53 said:


> Don't count on that. Phil and Paul must have mentioned Cav at least 8 times yesterday in the last 30 km.
> 
> I figure reminding us that Froome crashed out will last at least another 5 stages.


is nothing sacred? knock on froome and sky all you want but leave phil and paul out of it! ;-)


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## mambo (Jul 29, 2012)

phoehn9111 said:


> Tour is ruined after just the fifth stage for this ridiculous historical prerogative
> that places a higher priority on luck than rider fitness and heart. Road bicycles
> are inherently poorly suited to negotiate a course of such condition. Even a
> mountain bike would have difficulty. Even the sprint stages are close to being
> ...


It would have been nice to have them all in play, but the Tour has always been about survival - not crashing, not getting sick, being in the right place at the right time, knowing how to take the dangerous descents at speed etc. Froome today was never in the right place. His rivals were always at the front (until they ran out of gas -barring Nibali) to ensure they stayed as safe as possible. Froome was mid pack every time he fell. You are always going to be more likely to fall the farther back in the pack you are, plus he is not a great tactician anyway. He got played by better riders on the day today


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

yes, and in Dauphine Contador bested Froome in large part (or entirely) due to crash. Same as with this tour. I would prefer them duke it out, at their best.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

I was watching Eurosport and it was really annoying. They kept on about Froome then about Westra looking good at the front, or how slippery cobbles are but completely ignored any calls on what was going on, ignored the time checks (at some point Kelly said Talansky and Contador were a "minute" back when the screen was showing >2 minutes) etc. They talked over many crashes and over Astana attacks, instead discussing and repeating nonsensical stuff about how tough it is to ride cobbles etc. Enough generalities, pay attention to the race!


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

fornaca68 said:


> Wondering why in the world he left Garmin 3 seasons ago.


because they are a british team and they offered him a ganglion dollars and full and adequate support to win TdF?


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

thechriswebb said:


> L It is way too early to call the Tour but it isn't very often that you have a GC favorite with two minutes on the next of his legitimate rivals after five stages.


*Giro 2014:*
General classification after *stage 7*
Result
1	Michael Matthews (Aus) Orica Greenedge	29:34:19 
2	Cadel Evans (Aus) BMC Racing Team	0:00:21 
3	Rigoberto Uran Uran (Col) Omega Pharma - Quick-Step Cycling Team	0:01:18 
4	Rafal Majka (Pol) Tinkoff-Saxo	0:01:25 
5	Steve Morabito (Swi) BMC Racing Team 
6	Matteo Rabottini (Ita) Neri Sottoli - Yellow Fluo 
7	Ivan Santaromita (Ita) Orica Greenedge	0:01:47 
8	Fabio Aru (Ita) Astana Pro Team	0:01:51 
9	Tim Wellens (Bel) Lotto Belisol	0:01:52 
10	Ivan Basso (Ita) Cannondale	0:02:06 
*11	Nairo Alexander Quintana Rojas (Col) Movistar Team	0:02:08*

*Stage 14:*
1	Rigoberto Uran Uran (Col) Omega Pharma - Quick-Step Cycling Team	57:52:51 
2	Cadel Evans (Aus) BMC Racing Team	0:00:32 
3	Rafal Majka (Pol) Tinkoff-Saxo	0:01:35 
4	Domenico Pozzovivo (Ita) AG2R La Mondiale	0:02:11 
5	Wilco Kelderman (Ned) Belkin Pro Cycling Team	0:02:33 
*6	Nairo Alexander Quintana Rojas (Col) Movistar Team	0:03:04	* 
7	Fabio Aru (Ita) Astana Pro Team	0:03:16 
8	Wout Poels (Ned) Omega Pharma - Quick-Step Cycling Team	0:04:01 
9	Pierre Rolland (Fra) Team Europcar	0:05:07 
10	Robert Kiserlovski (Cro) Trek Factory Racing	0:05:13


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

Marc said:


> Even then...today the surface is **** due to weather...and risks were being taken that were just silly. Even with 28mm tires with a tread on them you don't bank turns at speed on a damp non-ramped paved road. Froome crashes were hard to see what caused them, but I'm doubtful remedial bike handling school would have prevented them.


You don't think Froome crashes more than average? He was the only DNF today, and the only rider to crash 3 times in 2 days. You really think the only difference between Sagan, Nibali, Boom and Froome is... luck?


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

gofast2wheeler said:


> Shame to see Froome out. Nibali I feel will not win Tour. TJ was never in the running in my eyes and still is not. I am going with Contador once we get to the mountains, and my second choice now is Rolland might be a surprise (good in the mountains).


Rolland? he is 4+min down, will lose another 4 min on time trial, and just did Giro. And you want to bet on him as overall winner?! Really?!


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## r1lee (Jul 22, 2012)

harlond said:


> +1 Wiggins was just awful on a rainy stage on good roads in the Giro recently and lost big time. Far from obvious he would have been in the front today.


Plus, he would have more time on stage 2 when all the best climbers were duking it out at the finish.



55x11 said:


> You don't think Froome crashes more than average? He was the only DNF today, and the only rider to crash 3 times in 2 days. You really think the only difference between Sagan, Nibali, Boom and Froome is... luck?


I like froome, he seems like a nice person. But I don't think it had anything to do with his bike handling skills. We don't know what the extent of his injury that occurred yesterday. According to the video, Orica green edge rider felt bad for taking him out. It had nothing to do with skills when someone's rear wheel comes right across your front. He came into today's stage with both wrists bandaged up. Obviously his wrist were in pain, imagine trying to ride in the rain and over cobbles like that.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

55x11 said:


> You don't think Froome crashes more than average? He was the only DNF today, and the only rider to crash 3 times in 2 days. You really think the only difference between Sagan, Nibali, Boom and Froome is... luck?


Mostly bad luck, combined with being in the wrong place at the wrong time, mix with two damn hard stages....cook lightly.


Froome et al were trying to play it too cool and sit back and not control the race. In practice it meant that he and his boys were in the middle/back of the pack....which to avoid crashes is exactly where you don't want to be if you want to avoid accidents in front of you taking you out. Granted yesterday's accident causers weren't caught well on camera...but that is what it seems to me.

Then throw in narrow roads that were wet and slick as snot and lots of people were eating the pave today. I haven't seen any medical report on Froome yet today, but he had to fracture something yesterday which was made a ton worse today. Most guys as favored as him don't just stop bend over 10 seconds by the side of the road and then ask for a team car to get into. Something doesn't make sense for him to DNF with that little at-the-scene-debate.

Hell I don't think Froome even took off his helmet once he got in for as long as the cameras were anywhere near his car.


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## coleman22 (Jul 30, 2013)

its funny people chiming in about froome's "poor bike handling skills". Now i am sure he isn't as deft as somebody like sagan but i dont think a rider gets into this level of the sport by being poor at anything. he looked to be in a lot of pain to me. I have been hoping he loses but i was bummed to see him go out this way. I wanted to see somebody kick his ass in the mountains.


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## chizhang001001 (Nov 17, 2013)

well said, him going out this way is not very satisfying. I had so much fun watching Criterium de Dauphine and was hoping for the same on this tour


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

55x11 said:


> *Giro 2014:*
> General classification after *stage 7*
> Result
> 1	Michael Matthews (Aus) Orica Greenedge	29:34:19
> ...



I should clarify here. It is not very often that you see a GC favorite with two minutes on the next of his legitimate rivals in the _Tour de France_. This sort of thing (and bouncing back from it) is more likely in the Giro. Also, Cadel Evans had a little less than a minute over the next of his legitimate GC rivals (Uran) after seven stages. Right now, in the Tour de France after five stages, Nibali has 1:45 over Van Den Broeck, who I believe to be the next person capable of possibly finishing on the podium and 2:05 over Talansky, the next person that I think came into this Tour with a legitimate chance at winning. 

Overcoming a three minute deficit, while certainly not impossible, is much more possible in the Giro. Of course, Nibali could have a really bad day or get caught behind a crash or the like.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

love4himies said:


> :thumbsup: I bet Wiggo could handle the cobbles.


Wiggo raced PAris Roubaix this year and did well

finished 9th in the bunch behind the winner

let's see
Fabian, Degenkolb, Vannmarcke, Stybar, Sagan, Geraint Thomas, Langeveld and Boonen

not bad company


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

I didn't tally them up, but it seemed like there were as many (if not more) crashes on the wet roads than there were on the cobbles. I think this negates the "cobble stages are too dangerous" argument. By this logic, they would have to postpone the race on rainy days as well.

I feel bad for Froome. No matter how much I may like or dislike a rider, I hate to see anyone have to leave a race that way.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

Can't have cobbles in the Tour - people crash
Can't ride on rain days - people crash
Can't have sprint stages - people crash

let's cancel the whole first week, people crash

Froome didn't go down because of the cobbles, he crashed out before the Pave. 
Crash One - road furniture
Crash 2 - unknown
He's tall and skinny so he has a high center of gravity. He isn't pretty on a bicycle.
Today's stage was freaking awesome. Did anyone watch the pre race comments before the tour started. Guys were talking about Nibali and how cagey he is. "I bet he trained on the cobbles" one of the other GC contenders said.
Well it looked like it and he put 2 minutes into most of his competition. He didn't suck wheel, he took pulls with whatever team mate or rider he was with. The Mellow Johnny covered in rain and muck hasn't been honored like it was today in a long time. I now have someone to root for. Belkin rode great today, the earlier break and then Boom recognizing Astana's move. Sucked a bit of wheel as they were going for time, took some pulls to create a better gap and then dropped the hammer on the last section of the Pave. Nice seeing a CXer with a stage win in the tour. 
The Tour isn't just about what guy can climb the best, TT the best. It is an overall test of riders and teams skill sets. A couple sections of stones are as 'normal' in the Tour as having a few stages across the French border. I wish they'd have more stages like these so the 'men' of the sport could have more days in the spotlight


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

phoehn9111 said:


> Tour is ruined after just the fifth stage for this ridiculous historical prerogative
> that places a higher priority on luck than rider fitness and heart. Road bicycles
> are inherently poorly suited to negotiate a course of such condition. Even a
> mountain bike would have difficulty. Even the sprint stages are close to being
> ...


your counterpart clearly doesn't watch the Spring Classics. You make your own luck, crashing into road islands is no ones fault but your own and your teams. Why were they so far back on the first crash? They were @ the back for the second because Froome was already gutted and having a hard time hanging on.
That's bike racing, that's the Tour.


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## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

What a day. Cycling needs more races like today. The big races should all have sections of cobbles or dirt road. I wouldn't mind of they cut a week off the tour to add a few more days like that. As much fun as it is to watch the climbers in the mountains its no fun to know one or two guys can win just because they can TT. The tour needs stages that can completely throw a wrench on the works and totally shake up the GC.


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## pedalruns (Dec 18, 2002)

Nibali, Nibali, Nibali! 

What a stage.. I loved it! I can't wait to see Talansky and now see what Ritchy Porte can do.. there is a long way to go. 5 mt. to finishes.. and one long time trial.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

pulser955 said:


> What a day. Cycling needs more races like today. The big races should all have sections of cobbles or dirt road. I wouldn't mind of they cut a week off the tour to add a few more days like that. As much fun as it is to watch the climbers in the mountains its no fun to know one or two guys can win just because they can TT. The tour needs stages that can completely throw a wrench on the works and totally shake up the GC.


and it will be fun watching Vincenzo turn himself inside out defending his time gap once we get to the mountains


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## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

atpjunkie said:


> and it will be fun watching Vincenzo turn himself inside out defending his time gap once we get to the mountains


I agree. I never really thought much of Vincenzo before today. But I have a whole new respect for the guy now. If he wins no one can say the best man didn't win.


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## Lazy Spinner (Aug 30, 2009)

I vote for a cobbled stage every year. This was exciting racing. I'd really love to see a cobbled stage 19 or 20 some year instead of an ITT or mountain stage prior to Paris. A good all-rounder could go into that stage 3-4 minutes back and still have a shot at victory. That would be far more interesting than watching one flyweight climber out TT another skinny climber.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

Today's stage demonstrates that, more than any other sporting event, the grand tours are epic in the grandest sense. They play out like vast novels. Some characters thrive. Some characters struggle to survive. The settings are genuine stretches of real estate, not the hot houses that are stadiums and arenas. Teams and companionship matter, but in the end it's the individual that counts.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

atpjunkie said:


> Can't have cobbles in the Tour - people crash
> Can't ride on rain days - people crash
> Can't have sprint stages - people crash
> 
> ...


I agree with the notion that Froome's build - tall, skinny, lightweight - works against him when it comes to bike handling. I have a feeling that Contador had sussed that out. That's prolly why Conti attacked on the downhills of the Dauphine. So yeah, I think that bike handling and bombing down hills is Froome's weak point.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

thumper8888 said:


> Well, I can be kind to Froome at least, he never pretended to be something he wasn't. Brailsford, though, needs to be called out on this.
> The Oracle of Delphi no longer, more like the little man behind the curtain in the Wizard of Oz.
> We all knew Froome to be fragile, with various physical issues, and now frankly his bike handling has to be called into question after essentially crashing, what, four times in two races, and essentially crashing out of both of them.
> It may be there was no stopping Nibali. This was an absolutely brilliant leg for him.


Indeed, Froome is fragile. Seems he is easily shaken once something goes wrong. We don't know the true extent of Froome's injuries as of yet, but today I couldn't help but be reminded of Tyler Hamilton's ride in the Tour a decade ago with a broken collarbone. 
Cycling is for the tough. 

The Tour is nowhere near over yet. I predict that Contador will make up time on Nibali in the mountains. Conti still has a very good chance of winning this Tour.


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## Rich Gibson (Jul 26, 2013)

Opus51569 said:


> I didn't tally them up, but it seemed like there were as many (if not more) crashes on the wet roads than there were on the cobbles. I think this negates the "cobble stages are too dangerous" argument. By this logic, they would have to postpone the race on rainy days as well.
> 
> I feel bad for Froome. No matter how much I may like or dislike a rider, I hate to see anyone have to leave a race that way.


Listening to the discussions with Cancellara and Talansky the change in tire pressures necessitated by the need to navigate the pave caused the lack of traction on the wet asphalt.

Rich


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

r1lee said:


> Plus, he would have more time on stage 2 when all the best climbers were duking it out at the finish.
> 
> 
> 
> I like froome, he seems like a nice person. But I don't think it had anything to do with his bike handling skills. We don't know what the extent of his injury that occurred yesterday. According to the video, Orica green edge rider felt bad for taking him out. It had nothing to do with skills when someone's rear wheel comes right across your front. He came into today's stage with both wrists bandaged up. Obviously his wrist were in pain, imagine trying to ride in the rain and over cobbles like that.


My point of view is that to some extent EVERYTHING, even what appears as luck, is a matter of some control, bike handling, strategy, fitness etc.
The first fall for Froome yesterday was a result of wheel overlap with a rider just ahead, as the road narrowed and the rider ahead on his left had to veer to the ride to accommodate some other rider. I agree it was unfortunate, but not completely unavoidable. One could ride further to the front, follow your own teammate(s) who are reliable and attentive and not follow some squarely rider, or not overlap wheels. I am not criticizing Froome, but this is perhaps you see some riders never get "bad luck" of being taken out due to wheel overlap.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

coleman22 said:


> its funny people chiming in about froome's "poor bike handling skills". Now i am sure he isn't as deft as somebody like sagan but i dont think a rider gets into this level of the sport by being poor at anything. he looked to be in a lot of pain to me. I have been hoping he loses but i was bummed to see him go out this way. I wanted to see somebody kick his ass in the mountains.


"poor" is meant relatively speaking of course. Just like Cavendish is "poor" climber, and Nibali is "poor" time trialist. But you probably already knew this.

But, for a protected rider and full team built around him, Froome crashes a LOT! You can rationalize it as "bad luck" all you want, but this bad luck is not distributed evenly - name another team leader who had as much bad luck as Froome, with crashes in Dauphine, and 3 crashes in TdF.

By the way, Wiggo crashed a lot in last year's wet Giro, not quite as much as Froome, but still. Stress, mental state, strategy and placing in peloton, anticipating changes in road conditions, and behavior of other riders as well as yes, bike handling skills, have something to do with it.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

Personally... I found yesterday's stage immensely satisfying and entertaining. I think that in order to win a grand tour, you should be tested in many different conditions and should excel in all or most of them. I think it should be a battle. Is it a little disappointing that Froome abandoned, yes... but I think that yesterday's stage has only set the scene for more drama to come. I think it is short -sighted to simply expect another battle between Froome and Contador the way it was in the Dauphine... in fact, part of what made the Dauphine exciting for me was the fact that Talansky played spoiler to that battle. I think that this year's TDF still has many surprises left for us.


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

I cannot remember a more exciting TDF. I am sorry that Froome, Cav and others have dropped out with injuries but it does mix up things a lot and makes you wonder how it will unfold.


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

BikeLayne said:


> I cannot remember a more exciting TDF. I am sorry that Froome, Cav and others have dropped out with injuries but it does mix up things a lot and makes you wonder how it will unfold.


Well, the excitement could be over. Who is going to rival Contador, and how?


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

Mapei said:


> Today's stage demonstrates that, more than any other sporting event, the grand tours are epic in the grandest sense. They play out like vast novels. Some characters thrive. Some characters struggle to survive. The settings are genuine stretches of real estate, not the hot houses that are stadiums and arenas. Teams and companionship matter, but in the end it's the individual that counts.



So very well said...


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

phoehn9111 said:


> Tour is ruined after just the fifth stage for this ridiculous historical prerogative
> that places a higher priority on luck than rider fitness and heart. Road bicycles
> are inherently poorly suited to negotiate a course of such condition. Even a
> mountain bike would have difficulty. Even the sprint stages are close to being
> ...


I have to disagree, it would seem plenty of GC contenders made it through the stage in one piece and are still in competition. If you think it's ruined because Froome dropped out, he went into the stage injured from the day before I had my doubts of him going on when he got out of the trailer, his spills weren't on the cobbles (they were rain, road furniture, and placing). The claim that folks are off their game because they are nervous about the cobbles coming up is across the board, everyone had to deal with it.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

il sogno said:


> I agree with the notion that Froome's build - tall, skinny, lightweight - works against him when it comes to bike handling. I have a feeling that Contador had sussed that out. That's prolly why Conti attacked on the downhills of the Dauphine. So yeah, I think that bike handling and bombing down hills is Froome's weak point.


Eddy made a comment once. Axel and Boonen are the same height. Axel rides a 60 cm seat tube, Boonen a 57ish. Long torsos and shorter powerful legs make a lower center of gravity that Eddy says dominates the Pave. Roger DeVl was built as such and so is Fabian. Froome looks built to tip over


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

they need more of these stages like this. Imagine if Flahutes like Boonen or Fabian could gain enough time where they stood a chance of winning the overall.
Why do the mountains always have to be the deciding factor?


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## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

atpjunkie said:


> they need more of these stages like this. Imagine if Flahutes like Boonen or Fabian could gain enough time where they stood a chance of winning the overall.
> Why do the mountains always have to be the deciding factor?


I'm ok with the mountains I'm sick of it being all about the TT.


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> Why do the mountains always have to be the deciding factor?


I guess I am stuck in the original "tour of france," marketing gimick across the entire country idea. if you were to tour france on bicycle, crossing through a decent representation of little burgs and medium size towns across the country, you have to include pyrenees and alps. 

and they are the widow-makers.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

pulser955 said:


> I'm ok with the mountains I'm sick of it being all about the TT.


I want a rouler to have a shot @ winning
I tire of little flyweights


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

PJay said:


> I guess I am stuck in the original "tour of france," marketing gimick across the entire country idea. if you were to tour france on bicycle, crossing through a decent representation of little burgs and medium size towns across the country, you have to include pyrenees and alps.
> 
> and they are the widow-makers.


actually the high mountains were later additions. 3-5 years in.


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