# Hey Mike at Bikesdirect....



## acckids (Jan 2, 2003)

Mike, 

I know Lance Armstrong has introduced a lot of us back into road cycling but your road bikes as well as most brands carry "race" road bikes so everyone can be like "Lance." Any chance that Bikesdirect has any influence on your suppliers on future bike designs that would be similar to the Specialized Roubaix, Trek Pilot, or Cannodale Synapse Sport. A little longer wheelbase, ability to handle a little larger tires, stable at all speeds. A road "sport" bike that does look like a souped up Hybrid bike or touring bike. 

I'm going to bed so I'll hopefully catch your response tomorrow. 

PR

P.S. You guys may take the heat in this forum but I've seen your product up close. Quality stuff. A riding buddy got ticked off at our local bike shop and bought a Motobecane off the web and has over 3500 miles on it and no problems.


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## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

*my very long answer - I hope it is not boring*

Thanks for your question. And I appreciate you taking the time to ask and your positive comments about my company.

The process of developing a bike is longer than you might think. Even the lead time on orders of bikes already spec’d can be 6 to 8 months. That is why we are always running out of our most popular bikes. {Everyone in the industry has this problem}

Since it is 5am and I do not have to leave to take my kids to school for an hour, I am going to take this opportunity to detail some of my projects.

-------- First

I was deeply affected in 1979 by the greatest movie ever made. However, the one major issue in the movie bothered me. How would a lower middle class kid afford a full campy Masi with sew-ups {or any Cat 1 level bike}?

In 1980 I started selling Full Record Colnago and Viner road racing bikes for $995. Two problems; everyone in the bike industry thought I was nuts and criticized me for devaluing these products. And even at half the going price I thought the bikes needed to be $500 to hit the range of the aspiring racers who had no money.

It took me 20 years to get close to my goal with the le Champion SL; the only Cat 1 level bike I know of at $1295. And there are still two problems, first to equal my 1980 goal of $500 the price needs to be $1231.19 in today’s dollars; second the bike makes me absolutely no money.

------ Second

Most projects do not take 26 years. Ten years ago my staff got me started on the problem of XC ATB racers. What young guy can afford $3500 for a 23 to 24 lb hardtail to compete with the rich or sponsored guys? {by the way - I mean 'guys' as gender nuetral - several top women riders are now on FLYs}

We have been quicker on that issue and my favorite write-up on our light weight ATBs was not the one were we got ‘bike of the year’. My favorite article was entitled “Is 19.9 lbs too light for a Mountain Bike?” – The magazine loved the Fly Team; however my feeling was HELL NO – 19.9 lbs is not light enough! I want the Fly Team to be 19 and under $1500. The 2007 will be 19.3 and about $1695 {4 lbs and $1500 under our competitors, but still a work in progress}.

----- Third

Your ‘sport road race’ bike question. Actually I have worked on this for years. 

My opinion; the Mercier Serpens is this bike. But I am an old guy and like steel. A Reynolds 853 bike with a full Ultegra triple and a very solid wheelset at under $1300 is hard to beat as a sport road bike. This is a bike many can afford and will find rides super smooth. I know this as customers tell us that all the time and because we sell out every year. {of course, there are lots of old guys like me who want steel}

Fast forward to more ‘modern’ customers. We have lots of requests for Full Carbon comfortable road bikes with triples. Many want compact frames. Everyone wants a good value. Not as many people ask for great wheels as they should; but I insist on great wheels.

Here is my idea of what customers and I need.

FULL MONOCOQUE FRAME from a top level maker who carries USA based product liability insurance {I will not spec ANY part not backed by a solid company with P/L insurance}.
GREAT WHEELSET – wheels are often the first thing replaced on road bikes due to companies not specing great ones to start with.
TRIPLE CRANK everyone seems to want triples on this type sport road bike
WIDER TIRES or at least room for up to 28c
AFFORDABLE PRICE – my target is $995 with middle level components and $1295 with nice middle/top level. Hard to do with a quality Full Monocoque frame, but that is my goal. {I will not use a multi unit frame, my feeling is on CF monocoque is the preferred method to build CF frames}

I WOULD LOVE COMMENTS ON MY IDEA OF WHAT IS NEEDED.

This is not a 25 year project. We will have something by summer time that meets most these goals. Price will be hard, but I am going to keep working on it. I think price is a major issue with most people. But “A penny saved is a penny earned” is not advise to be a cheap person. It is a call to be wise and cleaver in how we use our resources.


OK – this is fun. I love talking about bikes. But it is time to leave the office, go home, wake up wife and kids, get them to eat, and get them off to school. Why do kids have to be forced to eat and I have to be forced not to? I have the same weakness as my hero.


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## acckids (Jan 2, 2003)

Thanks for your insight. Hey it is true. You are nuts. I was thinking of an all aluminum frame and you are thinking full carbon. I guess my thinking is still "in the box." Your idea of a full carbon bike, great wheelset, 28c tires, triple and around $1000 if foreign to most of us because we are used to getting a lot less for a $1000. I think your idea is spot on for a real world(at least for me) bike. Just don't make it pink. 

I find your posts interesting because it is like we have an "insider" into the bike industry. I can tell you are still motivated to improve on the business which benefits us. 

I look forward to seeing what comes out in the form of a Sport road bike.


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## Lifelover (Jul 8, 2004)

*Pic of Mike*

12345


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## stickfigure (Oct 30, 2005)

*Bike specs*

I like your ideas for the full carbon bike, and, obviously, you know much more about the industry and the market than I do. But you might consider using a compact double (as on the Le Champion SL). A 50 x 34 with an 11 x 25 cassette gives one about the same gearing as a triple. It's a little lighter and it should also be a little less expensive. For the rider it allows one to avoid the snide comments that some of the cognoscenti toss at people riding a triple.


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## covenant (May 21, 2002)

Hey Mike, 

How about offering framesets for sale?


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## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

*We will sell framesets*



covenant said:


> Hey Mike,
> 
> How about offering framesets for sale?



Thanks for asking

We have sold hunderds of framsets as a test.
They sold great.

We have a lot on the way and they will be on our site bikeisland.com
This site is relatively new - but is doing good business with those who prefer to not pay shipping, do not care for coupons, and special hand shakes.

The frames on the way in include a Full Monocoque from Advanced with headset and fork. Immortal type in Black. Also several ATB frames and some aluminum road. All from Taiwan.

Our sale price will be in-line with my general approach and desire to put as many people on high grade stuff as I can.

You can expect low prices as frames are the most highly marked up high ticket item in the industry. I do not believe secrets help many people. So you should know the very high priced CF Mono frames from top makers in Taiwan cost about $260 frame only. CF Mono frames from China cost about $200 frame only. Nice CF forks cost about $70 to $90 FOB.

I think most people here know that most CF bikes sold have frames from Taiwan or China. I could post the matrix of who makes which but I would prefer that makers post that themselves. Plus most all these frame makers are great.


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## covenant (May 21, 2002)

Good News! Thanks for the response.


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## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

*What is that brid people like to eat?*



Lifelover said:


> He has more than one job.



Mr Lifelover

My name is Dr. Michael Spratt and I live in Ponte Vedra Beach, Florida.
It is easy to find me with just that much info.

I do not know who you are? But as a child in Texas, we had a name for people who hide behind cover and throw rocks. 

May I know your name and location please?


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## Lifelover (Jul 8, 2004)

bikesdirect said:


> Mr Lifelover
> ....
> May I know your name and location please?


Only if you promise to send me a Large Fantom Comp DS to test ride for a year or so ( I only mtb a few times a year so I would need to keep it for a while). My old K2 evo has been giving me problems.

If I like it after a year I'll even pay for it and write a nice review!


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## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

*Maybe you did not understand the question*

I think if you are going to attack someone; you should be up front about who you are.
I have made it clear who I am.
I have made it clear that all my employees have been warned off any Silence Dogood activity; even for play.
You on the other hand seem to find it acceptable to call names from cover.

I would suggest for you, Pilgrim, is a few good John Wayne movies. Maybe you can work up the grit.


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## Dorf411 (Dec 17, 2002)

Hey Mike,

Since you have been so open to suggestions, I have one that could solve a problem for a lot of large/tall riders. Over the past years maybe 10 or more manufacturers have more and more been not building large frames. Typically the largest frame offered is 59cm or maybe 60cm, then if a company actually claims they have a 61 or 62 cm it is totally bogus. Just take a measurement and you may see 62cm C-T and maybe 59 C-C, that is not a 62cm bike it is a 59cm bike. How about an honest to goodness 64 or 65cm frame C-C without that damn sloping top tube?

Thanks


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## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

*Big response on BIG BIKES*



Dorf411 said:


> Hey Mike,
> 
> Since you have been so open to suggestions, I have one that could solve a problem for a lot of large/tall riders. Over the past years maybe 10 or more manufacturers have more and more been not building large frames. Typically the largest frame offered is 59cm or maybe 60cm, then if a company actually claims they have a 61 or 62 cm it is totally bogus. Just take a measurement and you may see 62cm C-T and maybe 59 C-C, that is not a 62cm bike it is a 59cm bike. How about an honest to goodness 64 or 65cm frame C-C without that damn sloping top tube?
> 
> Thanks


Thanks for your question. Some questions are easy to answer quickly. Like “Do you like pecans?”. The complete answer to your question is rather involved. I hope I can answer in an organized way.

HOW TO MEASURE ? – I agree C-C is a better measure. But all the big sellers use C-T and everyone is used to that. So that is what we use. But of course either works.

SLOPING TT? – not my favorite either; but we will do some models in that design next year. They can be nice if done right but most our bikes are traditional.

WHY NOT MORE BIG BIKES? Very complicated – most builders do not build big bikes and in the case of CF frames it is even harder. For mono CF you must open a mold for each size and that’s $15,000 or so. Then you need the volume to use the mold. I used to order lots of custom frames in 66cm, 68cm, and 70cm for tall guys in Texas. But that was back when you could get a nice custom reynolds frame for $400 out of England.

WHAT DO WE HAVE? I bring 64cm C-T in a fair number of bikes. Especially in steel. We have a Mercier Galaxy, Mercier Corvus, and Mercier Serpens {actually sold out – but getting more for spring}. These are Reynolds. We also bring the Windsor Tourist in 64cm {more touring guys out there than you might think}. All these frames are from Maxway who makes about all the high grade steel frames you see out of Taiwan {like Bianchi, Specialized, etc}
We also bring some Aluminum frames from Kinesis in 64cm. This January we are going to run a sale on Full WCS equipped bikes with Ultegra and Dura Ace that everyone will think is insane. These 3 bikes all come in Aluminum with carbon rear stays and up to 64cm. We get some lower level bikes in 64cm in all aluminum. – also by Kinesis. {I think it is well know Kinesis makes frames for just about everyone}

WHAT CAN WE GET EVEN BIGGER? I am unsure. I will ask – but the biggest I see in any industry publications is 64cm {C-T} – Maxway in steel is probably the best bet. How do you feel about Reynolds Steel? Full Aluminum is next most likely,what do you think of that?

OTHER ‘BIG’ ISSUE All bikes we ship go UPS. Bikes are OS2 {oversized #2}. Bikes that are 64cm are a bit over the 130 inch OS2 max {H + 2W + 2L} – but we slid it by on most. Standard UPS on OS2 bike is about $40. We ship those for free in the 48 states. Bikes 66cm [even C-T] would surely go OS3 and that could add $100 easy in the 48. And OS3 to HI or AK would not be in range at all. So this is another issue.

But I will ask Kinesis and Maxway if they can do something. What level would you suggest? I think a bike this specialty should be Ultegra. Plus wheels are an issue; we use a lot of American Classic – but I think Ritchey WCS Protocal is better if the rider is over 240.

Interesting niche – I’ll work on it. Please send me any ideas you have on the topic.


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## covenant (May 21, 2002)

*Found a BD number from the Bike Forums.*



> Email us at [email protected] or call us at 904-252-8881


is that a good number?


*Crickets chirping*

*chirp chirp*

Anyone? anyone?

Bueller?


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## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

*thanks - we are doing more of that*



stickfigure said:


> I like your ideas for the full carbon bike, and, obviously, you know much more about the industry and the market than I do. But you might consider using a compact double (as on the Le Champion SL). A 50 x 34 with an 11 x 25 cassette gives one about the same gearing as a triple. It's a little lighter and it should also be a little less expensive. For the rider it allows one to avoid the snide comments that some of the cognoscenti toss at people riding a triple.



thanks
more and more people are getting with the compact crank idea - I think it is great in most parts of the country

I use all Compact cranks on Bottecchia that I now spec [except one triple]

I have started putting compact cranks on new Immortals - the new spec on these full carbon bikes is compact FSA carbon -- Wheels will be AC sprint 350 which have had weight limit incresed to 220 - which is good for most riders; so these will be light bikes

I am not ready to move compact down to entry level riders; I do not think it will attrack them. Triples are the big sellers on Sora and Tiagra level

Thanks for your suggest
mike


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## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

bikesdirect said:


> I use all Compact cranks on Bottecchia that I now spec [except one triple]
> 
> 
> mike


I had wondered if the current "Bottechia" was you guys. My sense is that you market it much more independently of your other offerings, though I can't explain right now why I think that...


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## jimi (Mar 7, 2007)

hey mike. what model bikes do you have to compare to the trek pilot and the cannondale synapse carbons?
jimi


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## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

*models to compare*



jimi said:


> hey mike. what model bikes do you have to compare to the trek pilot and the cannondale synapse carbons?
> jimi



Right now we are basicly sold out of Carbon Fiber bikes

Around July we will start getting in more Immortals -- all three models coming

Around August we will start getting in the new 2008 four Century models [all triples with full carbon semi compact frame]

Plus - new Immortal ICE with full new Shimano Ultegra ICE group; as soon as Shimano releases the components [I think we were the first to order a run of bikes using this new ICE GRAY Ultegra group in full]

frankly, we will try to keep full carbon bikes in stock all the time; but it has been hard to do.

mike


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## jhamlin38 (Oct 29, 2005)

hey mike,
i enjoyed reading your posts, and apprecieate your knowledge. I have another idea to assist internet buyers achieving a proper fit. 
I believe that the top tub dimension is drastically undervalued when sizing a frame, especially compacts.
Perhaps you can include a matrix of each frame size, including two or three different stem lengths. . 
Most everyone who's buying a bike/frame, has one, and can easily, and accurately determine their current overall reach so they can purchase the proper size. 
That gives people like me (tweeners) a better idea of whether to use a large or an X-large. I prefer an overall reach of 58.5-59cm, derived from adding the ctc of top tub, and the stem length. I can obtain the same reach with different frame sizes, however an extra large stem would put a little too much weight over the front wheel, and compromise the balance of the bike. 
just my $.02.


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## nenad (May 5, 2004)

jhamlin38 said:


> hey mike,
> i enjoyed reading your posts, and apprecieate your knowledge. I have another idea to assist internet buyers achieving a proper fit.
> I believe that the top tub dimension is drastically undervalued when sizing a frame, especially compacts.
> Perhaps you can include a matrix of each frame size, including two or three different stem lengths. .
> ...


To this I would add that you should also post head tube sizes in geometry charts as they determine stem and handlebar length. These days most frame manufacturers include this measure as well.

my $0.02


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