# road vs cyclocross



## mo50177 (Jan 20, 2011)

What would you say the difference average speeds would be between mountain road and cyclocross bikes. Say I can average 20mph for 20 miles on my 29er mountain bike how much faster should a cyclocross bike be then a road on the same route with the same effort. I am looking for the next training tool.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

Tool indeed.


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

pretender said:


> Tool indeed.


Cruel indeed, give him a break. You could probably beat that speed by a couple of MPH on a road bike.


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## d2p (Jul 29, 2006)

and this thread had such potentional . . .


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## d2p (Jul 29, 2006)

and this thread had such potentional . . .


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## VeldrijdenAddict (Apr 29, 2008)

What does average speed have to do with training?


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## mo50177 (Jan 20, 2011)

Wow alot of tough guys in this section. I usually use mtbr.com and I hit the cyclocross section and ended up here with a simple question. I was just wondering for those of you who have multiple bikes how much faster your average speed would be with the same amount of effort because I only have ever owned mountain bikes. I am looking to do longer training rides and 100 mile rides on a mountain bike suck.


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## black_box (Jun 7, 2008)

I started with a cross bike, then added a second set of road tires, then got a 29er hardtail. The riding position on the cross bike is more comfortable (plus adjustable hand positions) so if you want longer rides, I'd get one just on that alone. I haven't done a pure road ride on my 29er so I'm not sure how that would compare to the cross bike. maybe 2-3mph? but thats more like 16 vs. 19mph on my mostly flat routes and wind resistance really picks up around that speed. 20 to 22mph for you seems like a ballpark guess.

Do a search on 40k time trials in your area and see what they're getting, I've heard 1 hour is a "good" breakpoint? so thats 24mph in a TT position. You won't be in a TT position so somewhere under that...


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

I will venture into this minefield.... a lot of it depends on the set-up and the riding you're doing. 

I am in the process of going from a road-equipped CX frame to a frame with full road geometry so I could tell you more later. I am using a 50/34 on a 12-27 cassette. 

What I did notice is that the difference for regular road riding is minute. If it is any more pronounced then I will be quite happy with my new super powers when my bike arrives. 

I can consistently average 20mph on a night ride in traffic calculating stops and slowdowns. That means lots of sections in the mid 20's and low 30's. 

Where I might find myself losing speed is on a climb... though my last road race I cleaned up in the climb... still my rear stays are 425mm long and my wheelbase is 999mm, so it is not ... optimized for climbing. Still... not bad. The worst part is in technical descending where I lose time. A BB drop of 65 and a long wheelbase... combined with steering that borders on twitchy... does not make me the fastest in descents. Maybe I am just a puss. 

At the moment I am trying to figure out how to translate the good stuff into my next bike. I like the fast steering in traffic, but I corner like crap in the mountains.


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## jroden (Jun 15, 2004)

mo50177 said:


> Wow alot of tough guys in this section. I usually use mtbr.com and I hit the cyclocross section and ended up here with a simple question. I was just wondering for those of you who have multiple bikes how much faster your average speed would be with the same amount of effort because I only have ever owned mountain bikes. I am looking to do longer training rides and 100 mile rides on a mountain bike suck.


you will find the riding position of the cross bike is different but in my experience will be more comfortable for that long ride. Your shoulders are lower and you are ridining the bike rather than sitting on it. Since the tires are smaller and lighter, they zip right along.

All that said, average speed isn't so useful because it is impacted a lot by wind and terrain. You 20 mph ride might well be a 15 mph effort around here with all the hills and rough roads. 

Riders use power or heart rate or the level of exertion to measure effort, few will look much at average unless it's for a time trial effort on a repeated training course.

Cross bike is faster, couple mph maybe who knows.


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## tsunayoshi (Dec 3, 2009)

My 29er HT is 25 lbs.
My cx bike is ~21 lbs (yes, not the lightest by a long shot)
My new roadie will be about 16.5 w/ race wheels, ~17 with training wheels.

On the road, my roadie is faster than my cx which is faster than my 29er and it is noticeable. However, as others have said, training is about levels of effort. 75% of max is 75% of max regardless of what bike your are riding. Personally on the road I want to ride my roadie because I like to go fast, a road ride on my mtb (or even the cx unless I mount road tires) kills me since it is so ponderously slow in comparison.

There is a local Cat1 mtb racer (who podiums almost every race) that does his road rides on his Niner RIP9 (5" travel trail bike). I would go insane having to do that...


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## mo50177 (Jan 20, 2011)

Thanks for all the great responses guys. I know that you dont use average speed to measure how strong you are I am a cat 1 on the mountain bike of corse I train with a heart rate monitor. I thought this simple question would be best asked in mph so it would give me an idea of how much faster I will be going. It wouldnt have made sense to ask how much faster a different kind of bike would be if my heart rate was at a certain bpm. I guess next time I ask a question on this forum I will think how I ask it so I dont get called a tool and told stuff like what does average speed have to do with training. If you guys have any questions on the mtbr sister forum to this one feel free to ask them and no one will act rude to you. Thanks to the guys who properly and kindly answered my question.


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## dot (Mar 4, 2004)

black_box said:


> I started with a cross bike, then added a second set of road tires, then got a 29er hardtail. The riding position on the cross bike is more comfortable (plus adjustable hand positions) so if you want longer rides, I'd get one just on that alone. I haven't done a pure road ride on my 29er so I'm not sure how that would compare to the cross bike. maybe 2-3mph? but thats more like 16 vs. 19mph on my mostly flat routes and wind resistance really picks up around that speed. 20 to 22mph for you seems like a ballpark guess.
> 
> Do a search on 40k time trials in your area and see what they're getting, I've heard 1 hour is a "good" breakpoint? so thats 24mph in a TT position. You won't be in a TT position so somewhere under that...


For time trialing proper positioning plays major role so it's hard to compare, my aero positionon a road bike is completely wrong and I suck at TT because of that. On the other hand I can cover 10k under 16 min on a mountain bike with 1.5" slicks (I actually did 15.52 on a training ride), I did 29km TT with avg speed 36.4km/h. Compare these speeds to an average Cat 3 midpacker with NO AERO stuff, just regular bars and boxed rims and you'll get your numbers. I guess there's 5-7% difference. My average speeds for the same 70km route on a road bike and a mountain bike on narrow fast slicks (Conti GP) differ by 1-1.5 km/h in the same weather. I'm talking about average speeds 32-34 km/h.


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## avam (Oct 19, 2010)

There are just too many variables to accurately answer this question. With same tires and aero position on a flat course, your lighter cx bike will give a faster time with the same effort. I have recent experience comparing riding mtn bike w/road tires on the road to cx bike on the road. I am a Mtn Biker too and I have been riding my old 30 lb mtn bike with 1.3 tires on the road for at least 5 years. With my new 17lb cx bike on 25mm road tires, I find that I'm at least 10% faster climbing and on the flats. Strangly enough though, I'm 10% slower on extending downhills. I just don't achieve the same top speed coasting downhill.


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## CaptainAhab (Dec 23, 2010)

I've been riding a 29er on the road for a while, now. I decided, a few months ago, to build up a cyclocross bike so that long rides would be more efficient and I could go farther, more comfortably. I have a road bike, but where I live, I often have to cut through fire roads and sweepy trails. Plus, on longer rides, my road bike isn't comfortable. Plus, the hills here are steep, and I need a 34 cassette and 34 chainring (50-34). This project isn't done, yet, but I think that you get the idea. About the speed difference, I'm running platform pedals on my 29er, and estimate that I can squeeze anywhere from 1-3 mph on average out depending on the grade/surface.


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## cyclesport45 (Dec 10, 2007)

Ride lots. You'll find out.


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## NUTT (Apr 15, 2008)

How much does your 29er weigh? Do you have a rigid or lockout front fork? SS or geared? FS or Hardtail? What kind of tires on the 29er? Tires on the cross bike?

Way too many factors to say for sure, but I'd guess 3-4 mph.


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## mo50177 (Jan 20, 2011)

I ride a superfly ss with a ridgid fork that weighs 16.3lbs and I just bought a s works cyclocross that weighs 18. I think after riding it its about 3 miles per hour faster. So that means to me at least that when I do 100 mile training rides that I can do 15 more miles in the same amount of time. It also means that I can now race cross next season and not look like a fool on a ss mountain bike.


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## c-lo (Sep 30, 2008)

get a cross bike. you wont' regret it. I race MTB and cross and use the cross bike to train for the MTB races. much easier on the body with the long distances as you already know.


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## backinthesaddle (Nov 22, 2006)

If you can average 20mph on your 29er with knobbies on it, then there are two possibilities...

1) You need to set your computer correctly
or
2) You are so full of crap that your eyes have turned brown


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## 196nautique (Sep 23, 2005)

backinthesaddle said:


> If you can average 20mph on your 29er with knobbies on it, then there are two possibilities...
> 
> 1) You need to set your computer correctly
> or
> 2) You are so full of crap that your eyes have turned brown


3) Only ride flat land or downhill

4) Always have a tailwind

5) You are paid to race your bicycle


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## dot (Mar 4, 2004)

backinthesaddle said:


> If you can average 20mph on your 29er with knobbies on it, then there are two possibilities...
> 
> 1) You need to set your computer correctly
> or
> 2) You are so full of crap that your eyes have turned brown


what's up with the number? I've done once 100km in practically 3 hours on a HT with old fork without lockout and on knobbies, there and back... Av. speed was 33.1 km/h and I'm nothing, a typical midpacker. No mountains, just small hills we've got here. It's kinda proven 29" wheels roll better. Probably it's even easier on a niner.


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## Clobber (Sep 28, 2009)

Have you considered a Salsa Fargo? Throw on some Schwalbe Big Apples & have interchangeable parts with your other bikes.


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## jroden (Jun 15, 2004)

mo50177 said:


> Thanks for all the great responses guys. I know that you dont use average speed to measure how strong you are I am a cat 1 on the mountain bike of corse I train with a heart rate monitor. I thought this simple question would be best asked in mph so it would give me an idea of how much faster I will be going. It wouldnt have made sense to ask how much faster a different kind of bike would be if my heart rate was at a certain bpm. I guess next time I ask a question on this forum I will think how I ask it so I dont get called a tool and told stuff like what does average speed have to do with training. If you guys have any questions on the mtbr sister forum to this one feel free to ask them and no one will act rude to you. Thanks to the guys who properly and kindly answered my question.


Your question was fine, don't worry about how people respond. In the end, its more a reflection of them than you. Just let your legs do the talking, eh?


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