# Trek Madone vs Specialized Expert SL4



## roblondon (Dec 4, 2013)

Good Morning All, I am looking for some helpful input into making a decision on a new ride. I am a new rider strictly recreational but avid. I just started this year and currently ride a Domane 2.3 2013 I have enjoyed it tremendously but would like to upgrade and I am considering a Trek Madone 6 series with race light wheels and Ultegra drive train or a Specialized Expert SL4 with upgraded wheel set. I don't know enough truthfully at this time and am looking for some guidance. I like the idea of the Madone's 11 speed cassette with more teeth for climbing. I live in the Bay Area and ride a lot in the hills. Can anyone help?


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

At this point, I would say hold off. Put a year more under your belt, while at the same time start to read up more about different frames in general. By then, you will be a lot more experience, informed, and be able to ask much more purposeful questions.

As it is, you being recreational, with less than a year of riding, upgrading to either the Madone 6 or SL4 Expert will give you a bigger placebo effect than real world effect. I see A LOT of newb guys upgrading to some uber bike after a year, then say things like "definitely a big difference, I ride faster now". Don't fall into this trap so soon just because your recreational buddies around you are all riding high end stuff


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## Jon D (Apr 11, 2011)

Ditto on the hold off, if you want to upgrade something a nice set of wheels you can take to the next bike with a wider range cassette might be the trick in terms of a performance upgrade.


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## roblondon (Dec 4, 2013)

Jon D said:


> Ditto on the hold off, if you want to upgrade something a nice set of wheels you can take to the next bike with a wider range cassette might be the trick in terms of a performance upgrade.


Thanks for the input guys that sounds logical and sensible. I have to admit when it comes to competing with my friends I am not really either of those. Enduring a year of smack talk is tough when you are among the animals I deal with! Upgrading the wheel set and cassette sounds like a good idea to step it up somewhat without going to crazy and learning more about my capabilities and that of the bike's. Could you give me directions on where to look for relevant reviews and periodicals where I can get educated?


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

I would say to look at some brands other than "Chevy" and "Chrysler". It's the Fiats, Ferraris, Bugattis, BMWs, and Nissans that make life interesting.... not the same old boring crap that everyone else has.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

If you're looking at the 2014 SL 4, both the Tarmac and Roubaix in the Expert trim have 11 speed Ultegra 6800. So you get the same number of cogs on the rear. Also, Race Lite and Fulcrum 4 should be comparable wheelsets. The difference will be the gearing. Assuming that because a Madone is one bike under consideration, and you'll be interested in the Tarmac, that has a 52/36 crank up front and 11-28 on the rear. The Roubaix, on the other hand, has a 50/34 up front and a 11-32 cassette on the back. If you go with a Madone, and a P1 build, you can probably choose between a standard double (53/39) or a compact (50/34), and the same with a stock 6.2 depending on whether you choose the H1 or H2 geometry.

The other big difference is price. Either a P1 build with 6800 and Race Lite or the stock 6.2 will run you $800 more than either a Tarmac or Roubaix Elite, at full MSRP. Shop discounts may vary.

I have no idea how the series 6 frames match up against the FACT 10 frames on the Elite series Speshes. Probably roughly comparable, since they're both one grade below the companies' top of the line (and price) frames.


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## roblondon (Dec 4, 2013)

mpre53 said:


> If you're looking at the 2014 SL 4, both the Tarmac and Roubaix in the Expert trim have 11 speed Ultegra 6800. So you get the same number of cogs on the rear. Also, Race Lite and Fulcrum 4 should be comparable wheelsets. The difference will be the gearing. Assuming that because a Madone is one bike under consideration, and you'll be interested in the Tarmac, that has a 52/36 crank up front and 11-28 on the rear. The Roubaix, on the other hand, has a 50/34 up front and a 11-32 cassette on the back. If you go with a Madone, and a P1 build, you can probably choose between a standard double (53/39) or a compact (50/34), and the same with a stock 6.2 depending on whether you choose the H1 or H2 geometry.
> 
> The other big difference is price. Either a P1 build with 6800 and Race Lite or the stock 6.2 will run you $800 more than either a Tarmac or Roubaix Elite, at full MSRP. Shop discounts may vary.
> 
> I have no idea how the series 6 frames match up against the FACT 10 frames on the Elite series Speshes. Probably roughly comparable, since they're both one grade below the companies' top of the line (and price) frames.


I was actually going to upgrade the wheelsets on either bike to a Race Lite X or the comparable version Malvic on the Specialized. The Madone I was building on line I requested the Ultegra 6800. I do want to set up the bike for climbing so I like the idea of the 32 tooth cassette. The price differential is definitely substantial if the bikes essentially perform similar. Do you have any experience with either model?


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

roblondon said:


> I was actually going to upgrade the wheelsets on either bike to a Race Lite X or the comparable version Malvic on the Specialized. The Madone I was building on line I requested the Ultegra 6800. I do want to set up the bike for climbing so I like the idea of the 32 tooth cassette. The price differential is definitely substantial if the bikes essentially perform similar. Do you have any experience with either model?


No, only with the 5.2 Madone. An 11-28 was totally useless for me, where I live. I changed it out to a 12-25. When I found myself getting up anything around me easily in 34/23, I changed it to 11-23 to get single jumps to 19. I should say that this was 6700 Ultegra. I'm not familiar with the cog spacings on 6800.


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

I rode Trek 5200 / 5500 for 20 years and then switched to Specialized Tarmac SL3.
The new Madones didn't do it for me but its a personal choice.
I hear the SL4 is an improvement of sorts to the SL3.


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## Caneray (Nov 21, 2012)

I ride a 2013 SL4 Expert and love it. I have zero experience with the Madone so I obviously cannot comment on a comparative basis. The Tarmac is a great bike. Ride both and see.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

PlatyPius said:


> I would say to look at some brands other than "Chevy" and "Chrysler". It's the Fiats, Ferraris, Bugattis, BMWs, and Nissans that make life interesting.... not the same old boring crap that everyone else has.


I agree. Almost all $2000 carbon bikes today are great bikes, and have quality and performance within 90-95% of one another (and why shouldn't they since 90-95% of them come from a few factories in Asia). I wish more people would get out of that "Specialized, Trek, Cannondale" buying mentality. There are so many other brands to choose from.


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## ejprez (Nov 9, 2006)

Nothing wrong with getting something different and or new if you got the dough to spend. The madone or tarmac will be a different type of road bike then the domane. It would be a bit better ride despite not having the iso speed since you are going to carbon. A 5.2 madone is pretty much the sweet spot, the wheels are a bit chunky but not bad. the 5.9 and a 6.2 are about the same price and speced almost identical with the main differences being the 5.9 comes in ultegra di2, DA 9000 or red, while the 6.2 is ultegra 6800 and has the made in the USA frame and supposedly rides a tad better due to the chain stay design. 

if you are gonna spend that much and are leaning towards trek I'd say the optimal choices are the 6.2 or 5.9 ultegra di2. I think overall weight is about the same since one is lighter frame and the other is lighter group, except say for the di2. For domane the sweet spot is the 5.2 as well.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

roblondon said:


> I was actually going to upgrade the wheelsets on either bike to a Race Lite X or the comparable version Malvic on the Specialized.


FWIW, The Race Lite wheels are so good that it's a fairly low value upgrade to the xlite. Close weight and the RL's are a little more stable by virtue of crossed spokes on both sides of the rear. It'd be tough to go wrong with either but the Project 1 program offers so much flexibility that I'd give Trek the nod.


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## exracer (Jun 6, 2005)

PlatyPius said:


> I would say to look at some brands other than "Chevy" and "Chrysler". It's the Fiats, Ferraris, Bugattis, BMWs, and Nissans that make life interesting.... not the same old boring crap that everyone else has.


Well spoke. Come January it will be 35 years of cycling. I ride both road and mountain bikes and in all that time I've NEVER bought a road bike from Trek, Specialized or Cannondale and I'm pretty darn sure that I'm NOT missing anything.

Can't believe how many people just focus on those three brands. Yep, that's what I want to do; buy something everybody else has.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

exracer said:


> Well spoke. Come January it will be 35 years of cycling. I ride both road and mountain bikes and in all that time I've NEVER bought a road bike from Trek, Specialized or Cannondale and I'm pretty darn sure that I'm NOT missing anything.
> 
> Can't believe how many people just focus on those three brands. Yep, that's what I want to do; buy something everybody else has.


yeah I'm with you on this one. Buy something different. And at the risk of sounding like a plug-in, there are plenty of great deals from other brands offered thru "Competitive" at this time of year (clearance!). There is no way that anyone who is aware of such great deal would fixate on Trek, Specialzed, Cannondale.

On a sidenote: I really dislike Specialzed because of their bullying tactics. For me, this is a great factor.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

If you have a dislike for something you have never tried over perceived vanity, or lack there of, you may be missing lot's of things.


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## Social Climber (Jan 16, 2013)

Seriously, just get the bike that fits you best. At any given price point in a category there are few, if any, meaningful differences between brands anyway.


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## Social Climber (Jan 16, 2013)

exracer said:


> Well spoke. Come January it will be 35 years of cycling. I ride both road and mountain bikes and in all that time I've NEVER bought a road bike from Trek, Specialized or Cannondale and I'm pretty darn sure that I'm NOT missing anything.
> 
> Can't believe how many people just focus on those three brands. Yep, that's what I want to do; buy something everybody else has.


Yes, because let's face it. The most important consideration when buying a bike is the label.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

mpre53 said:


> If you're looking at the 2014 SL 4, both the Tarmac and Roubaix in the Expert trim have 11 speed Ultegra 6800. So you get the same number of cogs on the rear. Also, Race Lite and Fulcrum 4 should be comparable wheelsets. The difference will be the gearing. Assuming that because a Madone is one bike under consideration, and you'll be interested in the Tarmac, that has a 52/36 crank up front and 11-28 on the rear. The Roubaix, on the other hand, has a 50/34 up front and a 11-32 cassette on the back. If you go with a Madone, and a P1 build, you can probably choose between a standard double (53/39) or a compact (50/34), and the same with a stock 6.2 depending on whether you choose the H1 or H2 geometry.
> 
> The other big difference is price. Either a P1 build with 6800 and Race Lite or the stock 6.2 will run you $800 more than either a Tarmac or Roubaix Elite, at full MSRP. Shop discounts may vary.
> 
> I have no idea how the series 6 frames match up against the FACT 10 frames on the Elite series Speshes. Probably roughly comparable, since they're both one grade below the companies' top of the line (and price) frames.


When I bought my Tarmac in 2003 I asked them to switch the mid compact for a compact. Sometimes wish I did not but lots of shops will work with you.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

roblondon said:


> I was actually going to upgrade the wheelsets on either bike to a Race Lite X or the comparable version Malvic on the Specialized. The Madone I was building on line I requested the Ultegra 6800. I do want to set up the bike for climbing so I like the idea of the 32 tooth cassette. The price differential is definitely substantial if the bikes essentially perform similar. Do you have any experience with either model?


I have a 2011 Tarmac SL3 Pro. Love the bike but it has its flaws too. Mainly being that the Sram Red seems to require a little more fine tuning. Maybe that is due to my aforementioned switch to a the mid compact. 

It did come down to that, a Madone or a Super Six. Forget the exact models but here was my take. 

The Tarmac felt like it wanted to climb. I went to two shops and tested several bikes at each. Then went up the closest substantial hill I could find. 

I was shifting to bigger gears on the Tarmac. The opposite for the others. 
The Madone was the most stable race geo bike I rode but also felt the slowest on the hills. 

This is just my take and from a few years ago. 

On the wheel issue. Get custom built if you can. A good wheel builder can find you what you need. 

I swapped out my Rovals eventually for a CK/Pacenti build. Or pick up the Rovals... there is a nice set on ebay now.


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## Caneray (Nov 21, 2012)

OK, this notion of... I won't buy a bike from this company or that company because a lot of other people ride them is pretty silly. It's your dough so you buy whatever you want. To summarily dismiss a bike because it's not rare/cool enough in spite of the fact that it may be a great ride is just plain juvenile. We all know that there are a tremendous number of high quality, great bikes on the market so you have a ton of options. To buy something for the sole purpose of being different is childish.


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## ejprez (Nov 9, 2006)

Yeah and when the cool small niche brands get popular then go to another one. Some people just stick with the brand of their favorite shop, regardless if another brand is cheaper, better, or something else. 
If you're not willing to pay for someones bike then don't tell what not to get. Funny how we want people not to buy a walmart bike or equivalent and then those that don't we still give them grief or sneers cause the bike they got wasn't still the right bike, where does it end.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Social Climber said:


> Yes, because let's face it. The most important consideration when buying a bike is the label.





Caneray said:


> OK, this notion of... I won't buy a bike from this company or that company because a lot of other people ride them is pretty silly. It's your dough so you buy whatever you want. To summarily dismiss a bike because it's not rare/cool enough in spite of the fact that it may be a great ride is just plain juvenile. We all know that there are a tremendous number of high quality, great bikes on the market so you have a ton of options. To buy something for the sole purpose of being different is childish.





ejprez said:


> Yeah and when the cool small niche brands get popular then go to another one. Some people just stick with the brand of their favorite shop, regardless if another brand is cheaper, better, or something else.
> If you're not willing to pay for someones bike then don't tell what not to get. Funny how we want people not to buy a walmart bike or equivalent and then those that don't we still give them grief or sneers cause the bike they got wasn't still the right bike, where does it end.


My point was to NOT buy a bike based on the label. ie: "I'll only consider Special-Lies or Trek, because that's what everyone else rides!" There are a lot of other good bike brands out there that don't get the props they deserve.


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## Caneray (Nov 21, 2012)

Hey Platy, what makes you think any of this is directed at you?
Actually, there was another post that I was referring to. I will say, though, the use of Special-Lies is childish. If you don't like the brand, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. It's just a weeee bit silly to be name calling.


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## Insight Homewood (Aug 15, 2013)

I still see people talking about brand differences. When it gets down to it, I suppose the real question when deciding between two off the shelf bikes is which one most suits my riding style? When it gets down to it, the difference in my riding speed on a good $800 bike is the same as that on my $5800 custom carbon bike. I am the motor; the power source that is part of my man/machine interface. Fitting properly is the first order of purchasing any bike. New bits are nice, but our minds make such inconsequential (as far as performance is concerned) changes to be more profound than they are.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Caneray said:


> Hey Platy, what makes you think any of this is directed at you?
> Actually, there was another post that I was referring to. I will say, though, the use of Special-Lies is childish. If you don't like the brand, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. It's just a weeee bit silly to be name calling.


When nothing is quoted, it could be directed at anyone. So I explained my post.

You realize that every bike shop employee on the planet has nicknames for pretty much every bike brand out there, right?

True, the 'official' nickname for Specialized is Special-Ed, but I find that one offensive. Trek is Dreck/Drek. GT is [email protected] Trash. Cannondale is Crack-n-Fail. Schwinn is Swinn, since that how most of the morons who bought one at WalMart pronounce it. And so on.

Of course, Specialized earned their nicknames from their heavy-handed, militant, litigious tactics, as covered in recent news.


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## Caneray (Nov 21, 2012)

Yes, I 'm fully aware of the nickname stuff. It doesn't make it any less juvenile.


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## Social Climber (Jan 16, 2013)

Insight Homewood said:


> When it gets down to it, the difference in my riding speed on a good $800 bike is the same as that on my $5800 custom carbon bike. I am the motor; the power source that is part of my man/machine interface.


If I recall correctly from your thread on carbon, you ride what, about 1,000 miles per year? You really should get some more miles under your belt before forming opinions on the relative value of different levels of bikes. Yes, the platitudes about the "engine" and proper fit being the most important factors are all true, but you are deluding yourself if you think you can't buy speed. Most experienced riders will be faster on a $5800 bike that is lighter and has much better parts than an $800 bike. The real question is the subjective one about whether the performance gains are with the money.


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

so, does "Giant" have a nickname among shop employees? this thread is so funny.

also, in agreement on the point of looking outside the top brands. most of these bikes are so damn good that there is little functional difference in performance, so why not be different.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Research it, ride it, and if it fits well and you can afford it and like it, then buy it and don't worry about what everyone else thinks. That's my motto. It's THEIR money and THEIR bike and everyone should just get the bike they want and can afford in the end. Yes, there are a ton of brands, especially smaller ones that a lot of cyclists overlook and which might be great fits for them, but not everyone has the time to devote to or interest in searching for extended periods of time. Maybe that's a business model for someone, help people find great lesser known bikes. Smaller brands are sometimes more expensive as well. Parlees are great, but not cheap by any stretch of the imagination, same for Factor bikes, etc. Yes, you get the "coolness" factor for having something different, but at what price? A weaker warranty? No shop that sells it near you? A higher price? There's no perfect bike or bike brand; it's all about making the best choice you can given a bunch of factors and sometimes that best choice might be a Trek, or Specialized, or Cannondale for some people and we shouldn't be beating them up about it in my opinion.


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

One problem with buying a less well known brand is can be difficult or impossible to test ride a bike. At least where I live I can easily test ride a Specialized, Trek, Cervelo and Cannondale all on the same day which makes it easier to directly compare them. I would have liked to have considered a Time but there was no way to test ride one. I think the brands that make it easy it test ride a bike are the ones that will be most successful. I did test ride a Parlee, two different models at two different times and it wasn't right for me so in my case a smaller, cooler brand wasn't the right choice.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Caneray said:


> I will say, though, the use of Special-Lies is childish. If you don't like the brand, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. It's just a weeee bit silly to be name calling.


Agreed. Particularly coming from a bicycle retailer. Makes one wonder what's said about the customers behind their backs.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

dnice said:


> also, in agreement on the point of looking outside the top brands. most of these bikes are so damn good that there is little functional difference in performance, so why not be different.


To add to the point about the test ride options, one should not underestimate the benefits of a large company's engineering resources. These big players are capable of construction methods and have access to materials/resources that the small players just can't compete with. That and the service a big company can provide are hard to overlook when plunking down $5k+. 

A company like Trek, Specialized, or Cannondale produces more high-performance carbon frames in a year than most minor brands will produce in a decade (assuming they stay in business that long). They can advance faster because of that.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

I agree Davidka. Furthermore, even when you consider the bigger "boutique" brands like Colnago, BMC, Look, etc. sometimes the price is significantly higher for close to the same thing you get from bigger brands like Trek, Specialized, Cannondale, and Giant, etc. For some folks it's just not worth paying 50%-100% more to have Colnago on your frame instead of Trek when the bikes actually ride similarly. I love the new BMC SLR01 and the Look 695 Aerolight, but I can't justify buying one over the bikes I am considering because I know the performance will be pretty close at the end of the day to that of the new Cervelo S3, Trek Madone 5 Series, and Felt AR1 that I am considering.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

davidka said:


> A company like Trek, Specialized, or Cannondale produces more high-performance carbon frames in a year than most minor brands will produce in a decade (assuming they stay in business that long). They can advance faster because of that.


Look, Time, BMC are all smaller companies known for their expertise, refinement, and advancement of frame design and build.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Rashadabd said:


> I love the new BMC SLR01 and the Look 695 Aerolight, but I can't justify buying one over the bikes I am considering because I know the performance will be pretty close at the end of the day to that of the new Cervelo S3, Trek Madone 5 Series, and Felt AR1 that I am considering.


Without riding the frames, and without extensive experience on carbon frames in general, you cannot possibly make this judgment about the performance of the frames.

Now, if you're referring to *your* performance on the bikes, then that's a different issue, and you may be right.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

davidka said:


> To add to the point about the test ride options, one should not underestimate the benefits of a large company's engineering resources. These big players are capable of construction methods and have access to materials/resources that the small players just can't compete with. That and the service a big company can provide are hard to overlook when plunking down $5k+.
> 
> A company like Trek, Specialized, or Cannondale produces more high-performance carbon frames in a year than most minor brands will produce in a decade (assuming they stay in business that long). They can advance faster because of that.


Can you name one advancement from Specialized that is a game changer? one that makes people say "I gotta have it".


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

aclinjury said:


> Can you name one advancement from Specialized that is a game changer? one that makes people say "I gotta have it".


Roubaix - endurance fit with the same weight/performance as the race stuff. Selling very well from what I can see. 

The original Epic road bike, lug and tube carbon that rode well and sold well for years after other brands were still making bikes that magnets stuck to.

Horst link- worked so well that for a while there were a half dozen brands selling bikes with a Specialized logo on their chain stays.

Brain inertia valves.

Stumpjumper, the first commercially available mountain bikes.

There's a few.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

davidka said:


> Roubaix - endurance fit with the same weight/performance as the race stuff. Selling very well from what I can see.
> 
> The original Epic road bike, lug and tube carbon that rode well and sold well for years after other brands were still making bikes that magnets stuck to.
> 
> ...


You mean the Horst Link that was invented by Horst Leitner from Amp Research? Obviously not Specialized.

You can't include things Specialized has bought or stolen from other companies in the list...

Speaking of... Stumpjumper? Really? They bought a Ritchey MTB, shipped it to Japan, and told them to copy it.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

PlatyPius said:


> You can't include things Specialized has bought or stolen from other companies in the list...
> 
> Speaking of... Stumpjumper? Really? They bought a Ritchey MTB, shipped it to Japan, and told them to copy it.


Specialized did those things and they changed the bike industry. Horst and Ritchey didn't (despite having the opportunity). I was asked for examples, there they are.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

davidka said:


> Specialized did those things and they changed the bike industry. Horst and Ritchey didn't. I was asked for examples, there they are.


Do they have cookies on your planet?

Ritchey didn't change the bike industry? Really? You might want to read some MTB history. Same for Amp. They had full suspension before almost anyone. They pretty much invented MTB disc brakes.

Specialized is a parasite. It buys up the work of others and licenses it to make a profit. Kinda like Shimano did with V-brakes. Unlike Shimano, Specialized doesn't actually make anything...never has. It's a litigation and marketing company.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

tvad said:


> Agreed. Particularly coming from a bicycle retailer. Makes one wonder what's said about the customers behind their backs.


Bicycle dealers are humans, and like every human on this planet, we all talk bad about other humans at some point. But we also give glowing praises when we like something. We are emotional creatures, it is what it is, the good, the bad, the polarization of feelings.. it's all human.

You think all those customer service reps putting on a smiles behind the counter, or talk like an angel on the phone... don't talk shiat about those they're trying to help at times?

Platypius is a passionate guy on here. For the most, I have found his words regarding the big manufacturers to be true. Tell it like it is. No need to sugarcoat.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

tvad said:


> Without riding the frames, and without extensive experience on carbon frames in general, you cannot possibly make this judgment about the performance of the frames.
> 
> Now, if you're referring to *your* performance on the bikes, then that's a different issue, and you may be right.


But that's the whole point isn't it. We are pretty much talking subtle difference here. At the end of the day, these are all high quality bikes and you can adjust and alter the ride quality to your liking on most bikes with component and wheel choices anyway. So, I don't need to test them all to say they're similar enough. Anyone with any real bike experience knows that. We're talking Nissan, Toyota, and Honda most of the time here. Choosing one over the other is not going to revolutionize how you drive or ride. Just get the one that fits your body best, that you like, and can afford. You can keep living the lie that each brand is absolutely unique if you like, but I am done with it. A good bike is a good bike and you can ride the mess out of any of them once you develop your skills and get in shape. They have subtle strengths and weaknesses, but at the end of the day a good bike is a good bike.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

PlatyPius said:


> Do they have cookies on your planet?
> 
> Ritchey didn't change the bike industry? Really? You might want to read some MTB history. Same for Amp. They had full suspension before almost anyone. They pretty much invented MTB disc brakes.
> 
> Specialized is a parasite. It buys up the work of others and licenses it to make a profit. Kinda like Shimano did with V-brakes. Unlike Shimano, Specialized doesn't actually make anything...never has. It's a litigation and marketing company.


Yes, there are cookies here. Only nice people get to eat them though. You hate big brands. We get it..


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

davidka said:


> Roubaix - endurance fit with the same weight/performance as the race stuff. Selling very well from what I can see.
> 
> The original Epic road bike, lug and tube carbon that rode well and sold well for years after other brands were still making bikes that magnets stuck to.
> 
> ...



I don't consider these as "advancement"? 

These words come to mind: copycats, marketing, re-branding, and patent litigatious hoe.

Roubaix - not advancement. Plenty of other makes with curved stays to soften a ride (Serotta? Lightspeed? plenty others). Weight/performance is due to carbon fiber. Spesh didn't invent carbon fiber nor the first to use it in bicycles. "Endurance fit" is a total bs marketing concept. The Roubaix is not a race bike, what it is is a bike being marketed as a race bike, courtesy of highly-paid pro racers.

Horst link - laughable to think Specialized invented it. They bought out the Horst patent, then wasted no time marketing it as "FSR" suspension and made people using Horst paid loyalty fees. Nice "invention" from their legal department. But the FSR suspension had plenty of pedal bobs (despite what the Specialized marketing literature gloat about).. which brings us to the next point..

"Brain" inertia shock - First, you might wanna ask Fox Racing about who developed it. This "Brain" was developed by Fox for Specialized to combat the pedal bobs of their "FSR" suspension. However, the "Brain" was problematic from the get-go, leaky seals, inertia valves slow to respond to changing terrain. DW-link owns FSR.

Stumpjumer - first commercially availabe mtb? You might wanna ask Ritchey about this one.

So, did Spesh make the first TIG welded frame? Did S make the first carbon bike?
Did S make the first aero frame? Did S make the first suspension mtb bike? Did S make the first mtb fork? Did S bring disc to mtb? In fact, is S the first to use disc in road? NO to all.

Plenty of folks (Ritchey, Gary Fisher, etc) changing the bicycling industry when Spesh was selling bikes at Wally's World.

And btw, you speak highly of Spesh (and other big makes) about their size and how their size can allow them advancement. Total conjecture. There are plenty of much smaller companies making better products. Don't confuse size and profit with quality and innovation. 

(I'm only in my 30s and even I know this much about cycling history, enough to not be be-dazzled by Specialized myth of engineering prowess. They never were)


[edit]:
I just realized that Spesh did market their "Zerts" feature for their Roubaix seatstays and forks. Ran a marketing campaign about their Zerts. Nice little fluff feature, however laughable.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Rashadabd said:


> We are pretty much talking subtle difference here.


One person's subtle is another person's significant. 

To you, the differences may be subtle...but again, if you haven't actually ridden them, then I don't think it's fair to comment that they're all basically similar.

That's just my perspective.


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## bellzisu (May 1, 2013)

A lot of bike snobs in this thread. He asked for your opinion between 2 bikes. A Specialized and a Trek. Is that so hard to give him help?? 

I don't give a flying F what others on here ride. I do like to see what people say about curtain bikes when someone asks. It help me form opinions on bikes I would like to test ride. 

Instead I get to read... My ding a ling is bigger and better because I don't like the big boys and I bought from mommy and daddy bike company. That's awesome good for you, but what exactly did that bike have to do with the ones the OP asked about?? Nothing I'm guessing. Even if you are trying to give them ideas its almost more... LOOK AT ME... I'm COOL... Screw the big guys... type of post.

Most of the brands you guys hype up I have never heard of or seen around my area. And if I have, I haven't spent more then a second or two thinking about it. I have a Trek, Cannondale, Specialized, and some smaller shops in my area. When I want to buy something, I want to make sure to ride it and be comfortable with it and compare it to others I ride. So if your COOL alternative brand bike isn't in my area, well then I guess I won't be buying it.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

bellzisu said:


> A lot of bike snobs in this thread. He asked for your opinion between 2 bikes. A Specialized and a Trek. Is that so hard to give him help??
> 
> I don't give a flying F what others on here ride. I do like to see what people say about curtain bikes when someone asks. It help me form opinions on bikes I would like to test ride.
> 
> ...


calm down girlfriend, it's the webz


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

aclinjury said:


> I don't consider these as "advancement"?


Specialized, their millions of customers and the rest of the industry (not to mention the Smithsonian) do not care.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

davidka said:


> Specialized, their millions of customers and the rest of the industry (not to mention the Smithsonian) do not care.


you were doing a great job listing all their "advancement". Keep them coming.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

bellzisu said:


> A lot of *bike snobs* in this thread. He asked for your opinion between 2 bikes. A Specialized and a Trek. Is that so hard to give him help??
> 
> I don't give a flying F what others on here ride. I do like to see what people say about curtain bikes when someone asks. It help me form opinions on bikes I would like to test ride.
> 
> ...


Over-react much?
I get so tired of the "bike snob" card whenever anyone mentions bike brands other than SpecaTrekaGiantalized. Because Jamis, KHS, Lapierre, Redline, Norco, Schwinn, GT, Raleigh, Masi, et al are SOOOOO snob-worthy. The "bike snobs" are the ones who will ONLY consider Trek, Specialized, Giant or (to a lesser degree) Cannondale.


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## Zman099 (Mar 9, 2012)

You should consider a Neuvation Cycling bike (FC500 or FC600), they are a great value and have received good reviews.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

If you live in SF, I would recommend a compact crank with 11-28 rear cassette. If you end up somewhere in the flats you can always put a couple of 52-36 platters on the front for the ride. Sounds like your fitness could handle that gearing. A 34-28 should be managable up to about 18-20% grade.
All the manf have great bikes, so go with what you like the most, get one that fits.


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