# Cranksets -- do they make a big difference?



## neilg1 (Sep 23, 2009)

I'm pretty new to this, so bear with me if this is a really stupid question.
I have a Trek Madone 4.5, which is all Shimano 105 except for an Ultegra rear derailleur. I ride a lot, but don't race at all -- weekend rides, 3-5 hours at a shot.
I've read lots of talk about cranksets, and how some people seem to hate certain ones and love others. Does upgrading the crankset on the bike make a big difference? If I bumped mine up to Ultegra, for instance, would it be noticeable and/or worth it? Do you need to change the BB as well to change your crank?

Thanks for your input.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*No*



neilg1 said:


> I've read lots of talk about cranksets, and how some people seem to hate certain ones and love others.


It's usually the BB that people hate, because it craps out early. Most other "crank love" is based on placebo effect.



neilg1 said:


> Does upgrading the crankset on the bike make a big difference?


Not unless your current one is crap. Yours is not crap.



neilg1 said:


> If I bumped mine up to Ultegra, for instance, would it be noticeable and/or worth it?


Noticeable? No. Worth it? Only you can decide that.



neilg1 said:


> Do you need to change the BB as well to change your crank?


Depends on the specific brand/model/year. Many brands have proprietary BB designs, and some have different BBs for different models within their line. You have to be specific about the brand/model/year to get that answer.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Only if your ego demands it.

Besides that, your 105 crank will not shift any worse than a DA one.


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## neilg1 (Sep 23, 2009)

Thanks for the input.
I've been told that if I'm going to upgrade one thing on my bike, it should be the wheels first. I have stock Bontrager Race wheels on it now. Would you agree?
And one last question -- I've put about 150 kms on the bike right now. Is that enough to get a good read on the comfort of my saddle? I find it is good for the most part, but the sit bones hurt a good deal by the end of a 2-3 hour ride. Should I be thinking about my saddle, or waiting longer to decide, or for my butt to toughen up?

Thanks again for the help.


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## HomebrewMTB (Jan 14, 2008)

I've got 10k miles on my 105 group. It works just fine. There is just no need to replace perfectly functioning components. Save your money for wheels and invest in some good beer for your favorite mechanic to keep it running smoothly.

It's tough to say on the saddle though. You shouldn't be in pain though after that short of a ride. I'd try something else. What? Impossible to say. You're just going to have to experiment.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Cranks: Bottom of the line line Shimano to DA is a huge difference. Could have been just the rings, but it sucked. Ultegra to DA, just about zero. IMO, Stay away from ceramic hybrid anything.

Saddle: Took me years to find what I liked. I ride quite a bit. What I find as important as the saddle is the chamois and shorts you wear.

Wheels are so subjective I'd just say reliability is as important as anything to me. Tires make or break a wheel set as well so be careful and pay attention to details when you test equip out.


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## Ken (Feb 7, 2004)

I went from a Campy Record crankset to a Centaur one. They were pre-UT ones. Weird thing was the Centaur crank was about 25 grams lighter and about $80 less.


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## andulong (Nov 23, 2006)

You might lose a bit of weight with the swap but other than that probably wouldn't notice a thing. (not that you would notice the weight difference either)


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## Zipp0 (Aug 19, 2008)

Heck, I am racing on Tiagra square taper cranks. The only reason I might upgrade is weight. The cranks are not the reason I don't win races.


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

"It's usually the BB that people hate, because it craps out early." replaced a functioning campy Centuar crank and BB with a FSA crank and outbound bearing cups. when i rode it i could make the cups creak. the FSA was lighter but i didn't trust its durability. so i sold them and put back the centuar crank. spend your money on wheels.


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## baalan (Nov 18, 2007)

I have 5600 105 and 6600 Ultegra cranksets and I don't notice any difference whatsoever in shifting performance.


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## MShaw (Jun 7, 2003)

Zipp0 said:


> Heck, I am racing on Tiagra square taper cranks. The only reason I might upgrade is weight. The cranks are not the reason I don't win races.


I went from 600 square taper cranks to the D/A 7700 cranks and immediately noticed a difference. Yeah, they're stiffer. 

Will I lose the town line sprint because I'm on square taper cranks and not the uberwundercarbon jobbies? Nope. That's still in the legs and 'want its.'

I still ride those 7700 cranks and till they wore out, I don't see changing just to change something. (as an aside, I don't like the looks of the new Shimano cranks anyway, so the old stuff's stayin!)

M


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

Best upgrade might be the BB.
Keep the Cranks.
Go with Wheel and Tire upgrades to see a little improvement.


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## Squidward (Dec 18, 2005)

neilg1 said:


> I've put about 150 kms on the bike right now. Is that enough to get a good read on the comfort of my saddle? I find it is good for the most part, but the sit bones hurt a good deal by the end of a 2-3 hour ride. Should I be thinking about my saddle, or waiting longer to decide, or for my butt to toughen up?


Are you getting up and out of the saddle once in a while when riding? This allows blood to flow to those pressure point areas and can reduce or eliminate the soreness you get after 2-3 hours.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

jmlapoint said:


> Best upgrade might be the BB.
> Keep the Cranks.
> Go with Wheel and Tire upgrades to see a little improvement.


:idea: Good choice.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

Yes, unless you have Truvativ (pre-Sram at least) - then the BB and chain rings will suck.


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## Fai Mao (Nov 3, 2008)

Try tilting the nose of the saddle up a bit so that it is ever so slightly higher than the back. Also push the saddle ALL the way back on the rails. A lot of sore butts, in my experience are really handlebar problems. Raise your bars AND put a slightly shorter stem on. This allows you to sit on your butt a little more and not your crotch. Getting comfortable will make you way faster than any teeny tiny bit of areo positioning. 

As to a crank. Don't bother. You'll not notice the difference. Indeed, I'd like to see any actual evidence that a "stiffer" crank makes anyone faster. Once you reach a the Shimano 105 / Campy Mirage level the parts stop being that important. Don't be swayed by marketing. I really like the Campy Ultra-Tourque cranks but I'm not going to put one on the tri-bike just to put it on.

You are not going to buy a part that makes you ride 20% faster and probably not going to buy one that makes you even noticably faster unless it is a placebo effect as stated above. 

The exception might be wheels but then only if you are smart. Look at the minimum speeds needed to gain any benefit from aero wheels. If your AVERAGE speed is not close to that then you may be better off with a light weight set of tubulars. For instance I live in an area with lots of short steep climbs and very steep and twisty but short decents. Aero is almost useless but control, stability and light weight matter a lot.

You'd possibly notice a little faster shifting on the real high end stuff than what you have but it isn't enough to make a difference and I don't care if your a Lance Armstrong five years ago.

Before I upgraded a crank, I'd buy a set of rollers (Not a wind trainer) If you spend 30 minutes twice a week on rollers for a year your spin will improve, your pedal cadence will be smooth as silk and your sprint will be legendary. (unless you ride with other roller riders) You'll be faster because your form will improve and you will ride a straighter line which WILL save you minutes over a 100 mile race at the same average speed because a straighter line effectively shortens the distance you ride.

Just a suggestion.


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## LGD (Aug 14, 2009)

Fai Mao said:


> Try tilting the nose of the saddle up a bit so that it is ever so slightly higher than the back. Also push the saddle ALL the way back on the rails. A lot of sore butts, in my experience are really handlebar problems. Raise your bars AND put a slightly shorter stem on. This allows you to sit on your butt a little more and not your crotch. Getting comfortable will make you way faster than any teeny tiny bit of areo positioning...


Be careful with this advice. Fit is not universal and the idea to "push the saddle ALL the way back on the rails" is usually a poor idea on a properly fitted bicycle, especially if the seatpost has a normal amount of set-back. Also, raising the bars and using a shorter stem puts more weight on your posterior, often creating more discomfort. Find a shop you trust and get properly fit if you have any doubts...


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## neilg1 (Sep 23, 2009)

Thanks for all this advice. 
Much appreciated.


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## MCF (Oct 12, 2006)

Do NOT just push the saddle all the way back on the rails. Once you get your knees in the correct position (close to knee of pedal axle) you don't move the saddle around front to back. Experimenting with tilt is ok to some degree.


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## neilg1 (Sep 23, 2009)

I had the bike professionally fit, so I actually don't intend to change the saddle at all right now. I'm giving it some more riding and hoping that both the saddle and my ass break in a bit before I do anything else!


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## Fai Mao (Nov 3, 2008)

Notice I said to tilt the saddle slightly. Most adustments like this should be done slowly

Actually tilting the saddle is a good way to change the pressure points. Moving the saddle back slackens the angles of the frame which smooths the ride a little bit. Moving it back will do you no harm and often helps a lot.

Raising bars allows you you to sit on the bones your body is meant to sit on rather on your pelvis joint and thus reduces pain.

Most road riders today ride bikes that are too stiff, too steep and with bars far to low to be comfortable. Even if that position is appropriate for a pro it isn't appropriate for a recreactional rider or beginning racer

Look at racers from even 15 years ago. Notice how much higher the bars were then. Go back to the 70's and 80's and you'll see they had the bars almost level with the top of the saddle. Where the tops are now is where the drops were then. 

The reason this changed was not even areo positioning but compact frames and threadless stems. 

I have a triathlon bike that race on. I don't ride it to work or for pleasure.


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## Tinea Pedis (Aug 14, 2009)

Zipp0 said:


> Heck, I am racing on Tiagra square taper cranks. The only reason I might upgrade is weight. The cranks are not the reason I don't win races.


I run Tiagra on one bike at present too.

Runs and shifts better than the FSA sl with ultegra fd on another bike of mine.


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