# What does the casual cycling fan think of RR?



## funktekk (Jul 29, 2006)

After watching Rock Racing's TV ad and also seeing that they are sponsoring a heli cam on versus, I began to wonder what the casual cycling fan thinks of Rock Racing. Obviously amongst we who spend our time on the message boards RR is very controversial, but has the general cycling public picked up on all the controversy?


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

funktekk said:


> After watching Rock Racing's TV ad and also seeing that they are sponsoring a heli cam on versus, I began to wonder what the casual cycling fan thinks of Rock Racing. Obviously amongst we who spend our time on the message boards RR is very controversial, but has the general cycling public picked up on all the controversy?


What about the main sponsor - AMGEN - it's their drug EPO that saves lives and helps cyclist dope.

get over it dude.

be lucky there are even sponsors left.

I'm just suprised AMGEN didn't take over Team Disco from last year.


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

I am somewhat put off by Ball's arrogance, however I definitely appreciate his dedication to the sport of cycling. It can only help the visibility of our sport. I just hope he is running a clean program there.


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## fleck (Mar 25, 2005)

Casual fans don't know RnR. They don't know T-mobile is High Road. They don't know US squads at all. They pick up a little bits of le tour but thats about it.

They might know Slipstream but just because of the anti-doping side.


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## Gee3 (Jan 31, 2006)

I think RR gives good exposure to US cycling. But it'll be Slipstream that opens up those US crowds to the big European races.

Michael Ball is the Mark Cuban of Cycling, lots of money, arrogant and is viewed as a maverick amonst cycling teams. (see hriing Hamilton, Sevilla, trying to hire Landis, etc...)

In the current state of affairs neither the ProTour or the ASO will allow them a license or access to the ASO events, which represent big $$'s!

So, unfortunately, this casual fan thinks his team will eventually fade over time. But it will bring new fans to the table.

Plus, when your boss hires riders without consulting the [former] Team Director (Frankie Andreu) then there may be a problem in the future.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

Einstruzende said:


> I am somewhat put off by Ball's arrogance, however I definitely appreciate his dedication to the sport of cycling. It can only help the visibility of our sport. I just hope he is running a clean program there.


Right on, struz dude. Totally agree -- when I first read Ball's interviews, I thought this guy was over the top. But given today's state of cycling, it's refreshing to see an owner with fresh ideas and willing to take risks. He is also learning a lot this year. I think he will tone down on his comments. But the Cipo signing already looks good -- he gets a lot of camera time, had a solid prologue, and today finished third -- third! -- on a sprint stage. Nice to see Cadillac being a co-sponsor also behind Rock & Republic.


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## funktekk (Jul 29, 2006)

fornaca68 said:


> Right on, struz dude. Totally agree -- when I first read Ball's interviews, I thought this guy was over the top. But given today's state of cycling, it's refreshing to see an owner with fresh ideas and willing to take risks. He is also learning a lot this year. I think he will tone down on his comments. But the Cipo signing already looks good -- he gets a lot of camera time, had a solid prologue, and today finished third -- third! -- on a sprint stage. Nice to see Cadillac being a co-sponsor also behind Rock & Republic.



I actually like Rock, mainly because Ball is shaking things up. Most of the team owners stay in dark smokey boardrooms and make very tactile decisions as to not upset ASO or the UCI. Ball comes right out and says what he thinks. I am not going to stand up for everything or anything that he has said, because he is a bit off the deep end, but at least someone is standing up for owner/sponsor rights in the sport. 

Cipo looked stupid on paper but seems to be genius. They are getting a ton of air time from him. Fast Freddy was in the mix on stage one. 

I am really glad to see a brand that defines "cool" so deeply involved in cycling. I remember a couple of years ago my fiance asked me to buy her a pair of RnR jeans. $200 WTF!!! Anyone who can sell blue denim for that much can market just about anything.

This weekend I came to realize how clueless most causal riders and fans are about the daily goings on of the pro peleton. I was wearing a Navigators jersey and I made a joke about it being vintage wear since the team folded this past year. Most of the other riders either had no idea Navigators had a team or didn't know they folded. One guy thought I got it free with my insurance. I was shocked Navigators had been a stronghold in the US Continental scene for the good part of a decade. 

Then I started thinking of how Ball and Rock Racing take a daily beating for off season antics on this board. And I started thinking if any of these stories make it to the general public and if they would even care.

It seems the popular feeling of people in the know is that Ball is a joke. I was just thinking it would be really interesting if Rock became popular with the general public.


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## cycledog81 (Jan 8, 2008)

I think in the long run the R&R will be good for the general public. They have brought some life to the dull and mundane old boys club that has controlled cycling for so long. God knows they have made stupid mistakes this year (wrong type of UCI license, TT bikes lost at customs etc). Michael Ball, love him or hate him he sticks up for his riders and loves the sport. This guy actually rides a f******** bike and is involved with his team on a daily basis.
I think that given some time they will work the kinks out and really be a solid team. 
Reading all the blogs and newsgroups it's pathetic how many people are looking for failure here, when they are the same folks that last year were screaming for change and some new excitement for cycling. He is rocking the boat this year and it's about time someone did. I love the Cipo deal, especially after today, 41 years old and placing third !!!
Personally, I think the team is great and I love the team kit. 
BMC, Astana, High Road all look like something from a local club team. BMC riders spend two days off the front and looks like someone jumped in from the Davis Double Century.


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## desmo13 (Jun 28, 2006)

My casual cycling fan's view of RR


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

Nice bunch of folks walking with Ball. Didn't Heaven Gate cult members wear all black too?


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## desmo13 (Jun 28, 2006)

Yeah, my family was a little scared of the crew, rolling deep coming up behind. big hair, lots of video camera, sound techs, .. it reminded me of the movie 5th element, when chris rock's "Ruby Rhod" was being escorted by his film/sound/hair/breath-mint posse.


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## CoLiKe20 (Jan 30, 2006)

Retro Grouch said:


> Didn't Heaven Gate cult members wear all black too?


so do priests. what's your point?


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

No point really...just a casual observation  

Both Ball and Applewhite (Heaven's Gate leader) strike me as charismatic individuals who seems to draw a following. Albeit for different reasons.


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## Magsdad (Jun 29, 2005)

desmo13 said:


> it reminded me of the movie 5th element, when chris rock's "Ruby Rhod" was being escorted by his film/sound/hair/breath-mint posse.


Actually, Chris Tucker.

Anyways, cycling needs SOMETHING to get it back on track, so Ball isn't a terrible thing.

The leather is a little much, IMHO.


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## FTM (Feb 4, 2005)

During the prologue, my 15 yr old daughter and I were riding around the team trailers as they were warming up. Ball was standing in front of his Rolls giving an interview with those little models posing around him. My daughter pedals up to me and asks "who's that douche?", then she turned the corner and went over and asked Taylor Phinney for an autograph. I wouldn't even consider her a casual fan (she will stand in a rainstorm cheering me on at a cross race) but she knows at least know the future of cycling when she sees it.


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## cycledog81 (Jan 8, 2008)

I'm glad your 15 year old has such grasp on the real world and so open minded that she is capable of making such a quick judgement of people she has never talked to or know anything about them. Must be the strong parental open-mindeness instilled in the offspring.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*No.....*



Retro Grouch said:


> Nice bunch of folks walking with Ball. Didn't Heaven Gate cult members wear all black too?



BUT I see why Cip is riding with RnR. They promised him models and babes in leather


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## FTM (Feb 4, 2005)

cycledog81 said:


> I'm glad your 15 year old has such grasp on the real world and so open minded that she is capable of making such a quick judgement of people she has never talked to or know anything about them. Must be the strong parental open-mindeness instilled in the offspring.


She's smart enough to know that sarcasm is a weak way to make a point.

She goes to Palo Alto high and is surrounded my rampant materialism and Paris Hilton wannabes so she is pretty adept at identifying those that tend to put surface over substance. I do believe that she was right in assuming that Mr. Ball is more interested and successful in promoting himself than cycling - we can debate this if you want to maintain an intellectually honest discussion. She was also impressed with how low key and approachable Taylor Phinney and his mom (who has done more for cycling than Ball ever will) were. This kid will end up being way more important for American cycling in the next 5 years than Ball, he knows it, but doesn't need a crew/posse/groupies, flashy advertising or boastful attitude.

Yes, I am pleased that my 15 year old puts actual achievement over self promotion - substance over shine.


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## PaleAleYum (Jan 12, 2006)

*I have to agree*

with FTM's daughter. Douche.

Just look at that pics above. Anyone that needs to surround him/herself with a paid entourage- I have to question.

Perhaps 15 years old is old enough to be able to analyze a situation and make decisions. Right or wrong she made a observation. If she made the wrong observation, she'll have to live with it. 

Cycledog, you might want to consider that other people might have a different perspective that you and still be right.


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## MikeBiker (Mar 9, 2003)

I'm a casual cycle racing fan and I know nothing about Rock Racing. If I had not read this thread, I would not know a single rider on the team. I now know that Cipo is on the team. It must be a geriatric team.


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*well...*

following Balls' "win or be fired" quip...and seeing their initial performances at TOC...
he shouldn't have much of a team left in the near future whatsoever....


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## cycledog81 (Jan 8, 2008)

Maybe if she had a open minded parent and actually spoke to Mr. Ball she would actually find out that he is a very approachable person as my wife and I found out before the start of the race in Palo Alto. He was very nice to my son and daughter, ask if they rode bikes and if they were having fun at the race. He didn't need a posse or groupie to do this and it was very clear from his conversation that he loves cycling and is very passionate about cycling's future.
But again, you would only know this if a little effort was made to actually talked to the man.


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## PaleAleYum (Jan 12, 2006)

*Why the personal shot @ FTM?*

You may have a different approach than others & your mileage may vary. So what?

I've based my opinion of Mr. Ball based on the press releases and interviews he's done. He talks the talk about fairness, second chance, giving back etc., but his walk is all about materialism. That just doesn't float my boat.

I think he's a great marketer and business man. But I also think that Mr Ball's passion is Mr. Ball. Cycling is a vehicle for a business opportunity. He claims a Junior and Women's program. That is what I would call being passionate about, and supporting cycling. But, where was his Women's team in Santa Rosa on Monday? 

Perhaps I'm wrong, but my opinion was not made in a vacumn


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## FTM (Feb 4, 2005)

cycledog81 said:


> He didn't need a posse or groupie to do this and it was very clear from his conversation that he loves cycling and is very passionate about cycling's future.


Nobody needs a posse or groupies; it's those that choose to surround themselves with paid models and sycophants that are making a very public statement about how they wish to be perceived. I never said that she said he wasn't nice or passionate about cycling, I'm sure he is, and I doubt she would argue those points. How about if she called him 'a shameless self promoter' instead of a 'douche' would you still be so upset?


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

I think a lot of us "insiders" are missing the point w Ball and RR. My take is, the Caddy's and black leather and chicks and bling and in your face attitude are a well thought out, intentionally manufactured marketing / positioning statement.

He's clearly an excellent marketer (making millions selling blue jeans) and this type of style in case you haven't noticed is very hip right now among the young and trendy - exactly the demographic that every mass marketer wants to get, including the sport of cycling. 

What's cooler to an otherwise oblivious 25 year old: Team High Road / Slipstream (wearing ARGYLE with wire rim glasses) or a blinged out black Caddy with hot chicks and cool sunglasses?

I suspect what Ball's trying to do it bring big time Madison Avenue shine to our little homegrown humble sport. He might just make it work. 

Compare NASCAR. Wrestling. Any 2nd / 3rd tier sport - Cycling in the US is one of the most poorly marketed of any of these.

Just my .02


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*but what he doesn't understand..*



Creakyknees said:


> I think a lot of us "insiders" are missing the point w Ball and RR. My take is, the Caddy's and black leather and chicks and bling and in your face attitude are a well thought out, intentionally manufactured marketing / positioning statement.
> 
> He's clearly an excellent marketer (making millions selling blue jeans) and this type of style in case you haven't noticed is very hip right now among the young and trendy - exactly the demographic that every mass marketer wants to get, including the sport of cycling.
> 
> ...


is the european refinement and approach of the sport at this level...its not a rock show, its a quiet chess match at high speed. its silver and white, not black skull and crossbones..
its internal struggles and physical exhaustion, not tatoos and screaming...

one of our local racers here in town is on the RnR team this year...transplant from HealthNet..many of us are hoping he has a contingency plan...


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## ssmike (Mar 22, 2007)

funktekk said:


> After watching Rock Racing's TV ad and also seeing that they are sponsoring a heli cam on versus, I began to wonder what the casual cycling fan thinks of Rock Racing. Obviously amongst we who spend our time on the message boards RR is very controversial, but has the general cycling public picked up on all the controversy?


Interesting question. I just got an e-mail from my mom who watched the race finish in Sacto. She asked me "Who's the Rock Racing guy with the attitude?" I think the casual observer will see him for what he is.


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## Doctor Who (Feb 22, 2005)

Creakyknees said:


> I think a lot of us "insiders" are missing the point w Ball and RR. My take is, the Caddy's and black leather and chicks and bling and in your face attitude are a well thought out, intentionally manufactured marketing / positioning statement.
> 
> He's clearly an excellent marketer (making millions selling blue jeans) and this type of style in case you haven't noticed is very hip right now among the young and trendy - exactly the demographic that every mass marketer wants to get, including the sport of cycling.
> 
> ...


And this is why I'm a fan of R&R. 

Let's do everything we can to prevent cycling from becoming the new golf, which according to more than a few studies and articles, is fast becoming.


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## FTM (Feb 4, 2005)

But is the new wrestling better?
Anyhow, Cyclocross will never be the new golf.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

"european refinement and approach ...a quiet chess match at high speed"

Sure, that's fine for euro dweebs, but we're talkin about 'Merka here.


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*studies?*



Doctor Who said:


> And this is why I'm a fan of R&R.
> 
> Let's do everything we can to prevent cycling from becoming the new golf, which according to more than a few studies and articles, is fast becoming.


what studies? who's "studying" this phenomenah? 
maybe a few opinionated articles, but I doubt they involve p-values...

R&R has, so far, been a lot of talk and little show...that may change..it may not.


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*so you have..*



 Creakyknees said:


> "european refinement and approach ...a quiet chess match at high speed"
> 
> Sure, that's fine for euro dweebs, but we're talkin about 'Merka here.



true appreciation for the sports heritage,huh?  

you can't throw a lot of $$ at a team, surround them with hookers on stilletos and stretch limos, and expect them to win...those distractions will negate the expected outcome. 
when one becomes more concerned with their hair style than their training regimine...come on....the business couldn't even secure TT bikes in time for a major continental stage race...that's NOT professional, its amateur hour with professional hair/makeup and DeRosas with bad paint jobs. 

results tell the story...where was Cipo in Stage 3 today? Pena was top 15...the rest of them were left on Mt. Hamilton during the finish...


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## CabDoctor (Jun 11, 2005)

bahueh said:


> is the european refinement and approach of the sport at this level...its not a rock show, its a quiet chess match at high speed. its silver and white, not black skull and crossbones..
> its internal struggles and physical exhaustion, not tatoos and screaming...
> 
> one of our local racers here in town is on the RnR team this year...transplant from HealthNet..many of us are hoping he has a contingency plan...



You sure weren't racing the same crits as me then. Maybe it's a loud chess match played in the courts between the UCI and ASO, but thats about as closes as it gets.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

bahueh said:


> results tell the story...where was Cipo in Stage 3 today? Pena was top 15...the rest of them were left on Mt. Hamilton during the finish...


Red hearing. Cipo has never been able to get over something 20% the size of Mt Hamilton. 
They lost their presumably 2-3 best climbers before the race. Take away the best few CSC riders and see how well they did...


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## CabDoctor (Jun 11, 2005)

Did Micheal Creed start? He's been really really sick.


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## cycledog81 (Jan 8, 2008)

He did start today and finished with the main group. His wife in an interview that he is still really weak from the stomach bug, but refused to quit today despite race doctors advice.


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## parity (Feb 28, 2006)

From what I saw at the prologue and stage 1 the most amount of people seemed to be at the Rock Racing bus. People were drawn to the spectacle. I also saw quite a few people wearing Rock Racing tshirts in Santa Rosa when I was walking around the booths after the finish. Also I think most people don't have a clue about these doping scandals. At the prologue many people were wishing Botero & Sevilla good luck for the race. So my feeling is Ball is probably drawing in some new fans with his hype machine. I think Chipo summed it up best:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/feb08/feb18news2

"I had said to [Team Owner Michael] Ball there months ago that cycling has taken a new direction," Cipollini continued on the exiled riders. "Now, he has the proof. He is a young go-getter that would like to turn the world upside down. ... You are not able to put yourself against the UCI [International Cycling Union] and the rules. I can say that I agree with the fact that those who make a mistake deserve a second chance, but the reality is this."


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## footballcat (Jul 8, 2004)

i think they would like R&R 
they seem to have a decent brand - and generate a good amount of exposure


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## crumjack (Sep 11, 2005)

bahueh said:


> is the european refinement and approach of the sport at this level...its not a rock show, its a quiet chess match at high speed. its silver and white, not black skull and crossbones..
> its internal struggles and physical exhaustion, not tatoos and screaming...


Sounds like something that would have been said about 7-11 when they went to Europe 20 something years ago...


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## Bry03cobra (Oct 31, 2006)

Wait til they sign Floyd once his suspension is up. The general public will just hear the 20 second statment on their local news, prolly sound like this "menonite pro cyclist Floyd Landis, who was stripped of his TDF victory after being accused of doping signs with cycling badboys RockRacing." That will fry the server here. Look at all sports, lots of people like to root for the bad guy, I like the bikes, the gear, and the attitude. I don't agree with the personal for 08, but it will be interesting at TOC next year with a rider who can win the OC (Floyd).


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## Doctor Who (Feb 22, 2005)

bahueh said:


> what studies? who's "studying" this phenomenah?
> maybe a few opinionated articles, but I doubt they involve p-values...


I was hyperbolizing a bit, shoot me. 

I'm sure someone out there from a sporting goods trade organization is working on a study right now. I'll confess that I've not personally seen one. If I wasn't already slogging through a couple of content analyses, I'd consider doing a research paper on the topic. 

Anyway...

Read Alex Williams' article from the NYT called "Wheels and Deals in Silicon Valley."

I also went through LexisNexis and found the following articles, out of over 65 that had something to do with "cycling+golf+business+executives," which was hardly scientific, but certainly assures that my statement at least is somewhat rooted in a trend:

1. Execs content on two wheels
The Straits Times (Singapore), June 5, 2004 Saturday, WHATS IN; Sports, 598 words, Oh Boon Pin

2. And bikes are booming too
The Courier Mail (Australia), January 8, 2008 Tuesday, NEWS; Pg. 13, 146 words


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## Nazz44 (Jun 26, 2003)

They remind me of the old Oakland Raiders. Sign up all the unwanted, bad news, troubled athletes, dress em all in black and turn em loose turn wreck havoc. Like what was said before, "marketing".


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## jmoryl (Sep 5, 2004)

cycledog81 said:


> I'm glad your 15 year old has such grasp on the real world and so open minded that she is capable of making such a quick judgement of people she has never talked to or know anything about them. Must be the strong parental open-mindeness instilled in the offspring.


Actually, the daughter is very perceptive. Not to judge a guy solely by his tacky looks and the naff things he surrounds himself with, he is a certified sleazebucket:

http://www.tmz.com/2007/08/27/jeans-designer-accused-of-trying-to-get-in-pants/ 
http://www.topix.com/forum/movies/celebrity/TLF2284VH1P2KV00G/p2 
http://chat.lawinfo.com/rock_republic_lawsuit-t16513/index.html?p=34953 

etc. etc.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

It's not bad to have someone that shakes up the sport and someone for everyone to talk about.

Buth check out this video. Such a retard .

http://reviews.roadbikereview.com/tour-of-california/2008/02/16/michael-ball-comments-on-his-team/

fc


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## FTM (Feb 4, 2005)

I'm all for iconoclasts.
Graeme Obree = true iconoclast
Michael Ball = status quo of current celebrity culture


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Anybody who's going to the race, I'll take a Rock Racing tshirt, size L, black of course. 

PM me here and we can setup a PayPal or whatever.

Yes I'm serious.


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## PaleAleYum (Jan 12, 2006)

*Creaky knees*

Missed your chance with me. Yesterday being the last day I am able to make a stage. But if you are serious, you will have to be a bit more specific. R&R has the full marketing program in effect. They make a t shirt for each of the riders (name on front), Rock Racing in Cadillac script. Rock Racing in modern script, "Let them ride" and on and on. Lotsa swag for sale.


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## Doctor Who (Feb 22, 2005)

I'll take a R&R&R shirt in small, please. PM me if you wanna help me out.


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## velocipede (Feb 10, 2005)

desmo13 said:


> Smokin' Hot Girls and Mario Cipollini


Your pics are great as usual. I have a hard time considering you a casual fan as I know you've shot many races (though mostly dirt as far as I know.) None-the-less... great pics once again.

seasoned fan view: I haven't followed the RBR threads regarding RR, But I certainly have mixed feelings.
I'm a little embarassed by the way they represent bicycle racing, but I'm stoked have been able to watch Cipollini race in person TWO DAYS IN A ROW! I thought I'd never see the day after he retired. Einstruzende said it well. They will certainly draw attention to the sport. And wether I'm embarassed or not, It's great to see a team shaking it up a bit... plus I'm stoked Fast Freddie is a part of it.


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## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

Let's see; Levi's: anywhere from $20-$50 bucks.

Rock Jeans: $200 dollars.

My guess is that a Rock Racing T-shirt will go for about $150.

I'll pass.


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## desmo13 (Jun 28, 2006)

I do wonder though, is any publicity that is not doping related, bad for cycling?


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## desmo13 (Jun 28, 2006)

here are your shirts....


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## FTM (Feb 4, 2005)

desmo13 said:


> I do wonder though, is any publicity that is not doping related, bad for cycling?


Conversely, why is publicity (for road racing) good for cycling?


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## tg3895 (Mar 14, 2006)

Sometimes rocking the boat, whether for personal gain or not, is a good thing. I personally don't have a problem with Ball or Rock Racing. A little bit of the "bad boy" image won't hurt the sport anymore than it has already hurt itself with the latest doping scandals. And I don't care what anybody says, that is one [email protected] commercial!! Great team kits as well.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

desmo13 said:


> here are your shirts....


Wow that does make it much more difficult. Go for full irony and get the Tyler Hamilton shirt? Or pure slobbery hero worship with Cipollini. 

Heh. Irony all the way. Tyler it is.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

FTM said:


> Conversely, why is publicity (for road racing) good for cycling?


Cyclists and support crew can make a living. More good races. More people get interested in biking.

fc


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## FTM (Feb 4, 2005)

I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but I don't really think that general publicity actually accomplishes the above. It's not terribly spectator friendly and it's hard, these are not qualities that make a popular sport; cycling will always be a fringe sport in this country. 

If someone wants to promote cycling, they should get involved in local races and donate time/money to help develop young riders. This is the beneficial side of Mr. Ball, not the publicity machine.


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*nope..*



CabDoctor said:


> You sure weren't racing the same crits as me then. Maybe it's a loud chess match played in the courts between the UCI and ASO, but thats about as closes as it gets.


I barely touch crits unless they're embedded in stage races...not long enough. never steep enough  

we're not talking about your amateur crits however....you don' t see a lot of pros screaming at each other...


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*I think...*



Creakyknees said:


> Wow that does make it much more difficult. Go for full irony and get the Tyler Hamilton shirt? Or pure slobbery hero worship with Cipollini.
> 
> Heh. Irony all the way. Tyler it is.



the cash register in that picture pretty much sums up the entire team for Mr. Ball...


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## funktekk (Jul 29, 2006)

FTM said:


> I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but I don't really think that general publicity actually accomplishes the above. It's not terribly spectator friendly and it's hard, these are not qualities that make a popular sport; cycling will always be a fringe sport in this country.
> 
> If someone wants to promote cycling, they should get involved in local races and donate time/money to help develop young riders. This is the beneficial side of Mr. Ball, not the publicity machine.


What makes cycling any less marketable or spectator friendly than auto sports?


It all comes down to the saying,"Sell the sizzle, not the steak."

Cycling has been a sport dominated by skinny, slightly feminine Europeans. The Lance came along and suddenly the US cared about cycling. Now Lance is chasing the Full House girls and cycling is back to the Euros. In steps Rock Racing, selling cycling as an "extreme" sport, celebrating cyclists like rock stars. Maybe this is something the general public can grab onto.

The general popularity of cycling in the US benefits the causal cyclist in many ways. This could formulate in more bike lanes and paths, or just more respect from motorists. I remember pre Lance the motorists would yeah, "Off the road ***!" Then during Armstrong's run it was, "Go Lance Go." Still sarcastic but a huge improvement.


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## FTM (Feb 4, 2005)

funktekk said:


> What makes cycling any less marketable or spectator friendly than auto sports?


Most auto racing is not very popular in this country either. Pretty much, it's NASCAR and IRL in a minor way. Mention F1 and the typical American's eyes will glaze over; Armstrong is more famous than Schumacher, never mind Hamilton.

I've been through the Lemond era and now the Armstrong era is waning, RR will barely be a blip compared to those two. I still don't see why cycling needs to be popular; love it, support it and ignore those who don't care. If you want to be identified with those that are 'celebrated as rock stars', wouldn't it be easier to find a different activity with which to identify yourself than wait for a Escalade driving messiah to come along? Seriously, the dude has Escalades as the team vehicles; what culls more terror as you're riding along the road than someone piloting one of those behemoths while chatting on a cell phone?


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## mikeyp123 (Mar 9, 2007)

I'm totally picking up one of those t-shirts when the race rolls into the Rose Bowl.. getting one for my tight jeans wearing lady friend too.

Take a deep breath guys.. R&R won't convert our wonderful sport into a Hollywood night-club charade.. promise.


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## desmo13 (Jun 28, 2006)

FTM said:


> I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but I don't really think that general publicity actually accomplishes the above. It's not terribly spectator friendly and it's hard, these are not qualities that make a popular sport; cycling will always be a fringe sport in this country.
> 
> If someone wants to promote cycling, they should get involved in local races and donate time/money to help develop young riders. This is the beneficial side of Mr. Ball, not the publicity machine.



I know I am only one case. But I can't belive my experience is that unique.

Let's go back to 6 months before the 1st AMGEN tour. I recently bought a road bike after taking 18 years off from riding. The bike itself wasnt being used. Hearing about a big race near me, I went the prologue, then stage one, then stage 2... starting riding my bike regulary. squeezing my fat @ss into a Amgen Jersey. lost 50 pounds, got into MTB'ing, started a club, donated money and time to local groups (BCTEB etc.) got into DH, helped putting on races, 2 charity rides where I raised over 1000 dollars, started taking photos, trying to get more of those out, using those to pump people up for cycling, got my parents riding (at 60 and 63 years old) now they are almost ready for their first century, got my sister riding, she has 3 triathlons scheduled, she got her family riding, my daughter asks almost every day to ride her bike (she is 4 1/2).

Would this have happened without the Amgen tour and the publicity that sucked me in? Not sure, but it sure didnt hurt the chances.

I am directly responsible for 7 people taking up cycling, changing their life and lifestyle, and can't coun't those I indirectly impacted.

(I myself was indirectly impacted...here is that story.2005 I was driving to get some food, for my wife, in the hospital for her 1st mis-carriage. at a long stop-light, a cyclist pulled next to me. she was so gracefull, with skull and cross bones on her socks. and a safety vest. I remembered when I used to ride bikes, even race the odd criterium back in the late 80's. Then I looked at myself, 5 years out of the Marine Corps, playing online video games for more hours a week than I worked. depressed, mis-carriage, I know something, I, had to change. So that random cyclist inspired me. (if anyone knows a female cyclist, in walnut creek california, black skull/bones socks, flourescent green safety vest, I owe her one)

Now, how many people do you think have taken up cycling from hearing about lance, watching a race, seeing a team on a training ride, or listening to your stories about a ride?

That is good for cycling, and cycling is good for humans.

wow, that was long, but I am out fo R&R pictures to post


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## FTM (Feb 4, 2005)

desmo13 said:


> Now, how many people do you think have taken up cycling from hearing about lance, watching a race, seeing a team on a training ride, or listening to your stories about a ride?


Quite a few, and some actually stick with it.

The first part of my post was referring to 'general cycling publicity'. It seems that exposure to local racing is what got you going again, hence the second part of my post. Glad to see we're in agreement.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

I hope fans, causal and otherwise, will have the good sense to roll their eyes as soon as they see those uniforms. It's kind of sad that the real cycling talent there gets lost in the style and PR machine manufactured controversy.


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## CabDoctor (Jun 11, 2005)

That's funny cause I roll my eyes when I see the uniforms of team Highhorse and team Pipedream


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

CabDoctor said:


> That's funny cause I roll my eyes when I see the uniforms of team Highhorse and team Pipedream


High Road (is that a double entendre?) has the worst looking jerseys of any team other than Rock, but at least they have substance. It may be a banned substance, but at least it's a substance


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

background...


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## culdeus (May 5, 2005)

Looking at the races RR will compete in (all domestic) how much exposure can they hope to get after the ToC? I doubt even the most casual fan will hear of them except once or twice a year.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

culdeus said:


> Looking at the races RR will compete in (all domestic) how much exposure can they hope to get after the ToC? I doubt even the most casual fan will hear of them except once or twice a year.


Cipo is riding only US races, but I thought the team had plans to race in Europe?

I'm a 55-year-old guy who is generally very conservative regarding the sort of promotion that Rock is using. But I'm really warming up to them.

For one thing their podium girls are a distinct upgrade from the parade of local officials used in the past. A distinct upgrade.

Second, Cipollini is just so cool, even at his advanced age. I suppose it's like Pele coming to NASL (or Beckham to MLS, for that matter), but he is definitely going to raise the visibility of domestic racing a notch. 

Finally, the whole promotional effort is unique in cycling, giving the team real visibility. This makes the advertising all the more effective, and a marketing professional I appreciate that. They'll have to get results eventually in order to make it last, but it's very effective now. They've got the talent to get results, if they're allowed to ride (and if they can stay clean).

JSR


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## FTM (Feb 4, 2005)

Well not sure what the casual fan thinks but Cipo seem to be forming an opinion.


Cycling News said:


> The relationship that was started last fall in a Las Vegas discotheque could come to an end if Mario Cipollini does not get his say in the management of Rock Racing. The Italian, who came out of retirement at the age of 40 to race in the Tour of California last week, and his lawyer met with the owner of the team, Mike Ball, yesterday to discuss the coming season.
> 
> "We need to sit at the table and make clear who is in command," said Mario Cipollini in an interview with La Gazzetta dello Sport's Luigi Perna. The Italian from Lucca and lawyer Giuseppe Napoleone were scheduled to meet with Ball later in the day.
> 
> ...


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## clynch (Jan 14, 2007)

*I think I qualify as a casual fan*

I've got a couple bikes. I ride daily if not every other. I follow the major cycling events.
I eat cheeseburgers, pizza, and drink beer regularly. I use cycling as a fitness tool and also as an escape.

Rock Racing....I love them. They represent bad-assness and that's fun to see on occasion, especially when it's not the prevalent mindset.

People love a badass every now and then (John McEnroe, Dale Earnhardt, Dennis Rodman, The LA Raiders, etc.)

my 2 cents


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## litespeedchick (Sep 9, 2003)

Exactly. Although I agree that the 15 year old nailed it...he really came across like an ass in the interviews I heard on VS., those commercials are GREAT. They make me want to buy something, although I'm not sure what. The same marketing genius that makes a girl buy a $200 pair of jeans is clearly at work here.


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