# Too Dumb To Operate Floor Pump



## rbnyc (Feb 22, 2009)

I recently got a Lezyne floor pump. When I screw it onto the valve, when the tire is at a fairly high pressure, say, 115 pounds, it doesn't take air. What happens is I push down on the pump and it feels blocked. No air goes into the tire. If I force it the gauge spins all the way around. Sometimes if I fiddle with it a bit I can eventually get it to accept air.

I can get it to fill if I drop the tire pressure down to about 80 pounds. At this point I can proceed with pumping up the tire.

I'd much rather just top off the tire with two or three strokes after it has not been used for a few days than drop the pressure down so far. I assume I'm doing something wrong and would like to know if anyone has an idea what it is. Thanks.


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## stockwiz (May 29, 2012)

I had a heck of a time starting out with floor pumps.. I've come to find that planet bike makes some of the most reliable and idiot proof stuff, and that includes their pumps. Not all pumps work effective, some are a true pain or don't work at all.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

presta valves get 'stuck' and you have to push them in to 'un-stick' them before the pump will be able to get air past the valve. this is completely normal. 
why are you trying to put more than 115psi in your tires? 
there is a 'wheel & tire' section of the forum for questions about wheels and tires.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

If it's a presta type valve your talking about it's probably got more to do with the valve itself. If so, unscrew the nut at the end of the valve and briefly push the valve so you let a second or two of air escape. This ensures air will be able to get forced back in when you start to pump. Valves are weird like that.

If schrader valve then ensure you have the pump head fully depressed to again open the valve.


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## Gimme Shoulder (Feb 10, 2004)

That's normal with the Lezyne pump head. You have to let some air out of the tire first. Like you, mine seems to baulk unless the tire is taken below 80 psi or so first. I never had this problem with any of the lever style pump heads I've had, but I still prefer the screw on head of the Lezyne.

I'll second the question: Why would you be trying to pump up a tire that is already at 115 psi?


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## rbnyc (Feb 22, 2009)

It's mostly the valve needing to be opened or unstuck so I think I will be OK.

As for the pressure questions, I'm not really all that interested in getting into a back and forth about that. I know that there is a lot of discussion about pressure, what's too high, whats too low. I am never banged up after a ride and I really don't pay that much attention to my pressure but that was at least partly due to the fact that I hated my Blackburn pump.

I do appreciate the responses. Thanks.


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## Special Eyes (Feb 2, 2011)

Remove stem valve cap.
If there's a round knurled stem nut, finger tighten to snug only.
Turn valve tip counterclockwise.
Tap on end of valve for a moment to free internal check valve.
Push pump head over stem.
Flip the locking lever on pump head if there is one.
Pump to desired pressure.
Pull pump head off stem straight and carefully.
Tighten valve tip nut.
replace valve cap.
go for a ride.


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## AndreyT (Dec 1, 2011)

rbnyc said:


> I can get it to fill if I drop the tire pressure down to about 80 pounds. At this point I can proceed with pumping up the tire.


You are not doing anything wrong. That's exactly how it works with Presta valves. Before you begin to pump it, tap the valve a couple of times and, better, deflate the tire to a much lower pressure. It will differ from tube to tube. I notice that for some reason long-stem valves tens to stick less than short-stem valves. For some valves, it will be impossible to get the valve unstuck with ordinary floor pump until you deflate the tube considerably (like to 60 psi).


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## mmlee (Apr 15, 2012)

Good question and info here.... I was having the same problem with my Park PFP-4 and I thought it was mostly user error. I was having to let the air out to top off the tires... I'm glad to know that's how your supposed to do it. I didn't think that it was the presta valve sticking. Fairly new to road bikes and was only used to schrader valves where you never deal with sticking valves.


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## netbeui22 (Jul 23, 2012)

Lol!!!!


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## Peter_Klim (Oct 7, 2007)

LOL!!

For over FIVE years I've been cursing my bike pumps for not taking air for the same reasons mentioned above! I even replaced one 4 years ago. Not until last month did I figure it out. What an idiot I was! LOL!


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## surfinguru (Jun 17, 2004)

I notice I get this if unscrew the valve all the way open. Sometimes I forget and have to take the pump off, turn the valve back in one full turn, put the pump back on and voila! Air goes into tube!


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## yuris (Oct 4, 2011)

Whats wrong with inflating tires a bit if they are at 115? I tend to inflate to 120 before each ride, unless i know this ride will be short and i did 120 psi just yesterday. Also i do not have a gauge to test - i think if i am putting the pump hose on, it reduces the pressure a little bit already. So i will just make it exactly 120. 
Btw, i will try releasing more air before inflating next time. Maybe it will go easier, since i had to push really hard to get to 120. So maybe its not about muscles


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

Special Eyes said:


> Remove stem valve cap.
> If there's a round knurled stem nut, finger tighten to snug only.
> Turn valve tip counterclockwise.
> Tap on end of valve for a moment to free internal check valve.
> ...


This is good advice except for 1 thing. Don't pull the pump head off the stem. Wrap your hands around the tire & push the pump head off with your thumbs. It's much easier on the valve stem and your hands. You'll be surprised at how easily it pops off.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

yuris said:


> Whats wrong with inflating tires a bit if they are at 115? I tend to inflate to 120 before each ride, unless i know this ride will be short and i did 120 psi just yesterday. Also i do not have a gauge to test - i think if i am putting the pump hose on, it reduces the pressure a little bit already. So i will just make it exactly 120.
> Btw, i will try releasing more air before inflating next time. Maybe it will go easier, since i had to push really hard to get to 120. So maybe its not about muscles


120 psi is too much pressure for anyone. if you're big (190-200+) and riding 23mm tires, you don't need 120psi, you NEED BIGGER TIRES. if you're smaller than that, you don't need that much pressure. it's been covered over and over and over. 90-100psi for the majority of riders (130-180lbs) is smoother, faster, and allows more cornering traction. if you weigh less than that, then even less pressure is better for you. 120psi for anyone is just too much pressure. there is no argument to this. it's physics.


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## Special Eyes (Feb 2, 2011)

Mr. Versatile said:


> This is good advice except for 1 thing. Don't pull the pump head off the stem. Wrap your hands around the tire & push the pump head off with your thumbs. It's much easier on the valve stem and your hands. You'll be surprised at how easily it pops off.


Right you are, Mr. Versa. I do that, and forgot to elaborate that you must hold the wheel and pull whether you use thumbs or not. Sometimes I forget and think that people have brains.


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## yuris (Oct 4, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> 120 psi is too much pressure for anyone. if you're big (190-200+) and riding 23mm tires, you don't need 120psi, you NEED BIGGER TIRES. if you're smaller than that, you don't need that much pressure. it's been covered over and over and over. 90-100psi for the majority of riders (130-180lbs) is smoother, faster, and allows more cornering traction. if you weigh less than that, then even less pressure is better for you. 120psi for anyone is just too much pressure. there is no argument to this. it's physics.


Thanks, i must have missed those pressure discussions. I was told to do 120 by LBS from which i got my bike originally. My weight is 170, and I ride 23mm. Admittedly this is my first road biking season (used to ride hybrid before), and at least I did not get any flats in 800 miles. If i will go down o 100 psi, will increase flat likelihood?


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## Gimme Shoulder (Feb 10, 2004)

You'll be fine. Give it a try. If you like it, stick with it. If not, add 5psi and try again.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

Gimme Shoulder said:


> That's normal with the Lezyne pump head. You have to let some air out of the tire first. Like you, mine seems to baulk unless the tire is taken below 80 psi or so first. I never had this problem with any of the lever style pump heads I've had, but I still prefer the screw on head of the Lezyne.
> 
> I'll second the question: Why would you be trying to pump up a tire that is already at 115 psi?


Same issue with any pump, not just Lezyne. Need to release a bit of air.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

Mr. Versatile said:


> This is good advice except for 1 thing. Don't pull the pump head off the stem. Wrap your hands around the tire & push the pump head off with your thumbs. It's much easier on the valve stem and your hands. You'll be surprised at how easily it pops off.


It is a Lezyne. It screws off the valve.


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## j.carney.tx (Jun 15, 2011)

Now, back to the OP, I also had this issue with a Lezyne CNC floor pump. Sometimes just tapping the valve to release pressure doesn't always work. I've used other pumps and have always tapped the valve prior to connecting the pump head and have never had any issue. When I got the Lezyne, with it's screw-on head, I was baffled as to why it didn't work. I found that putting a small drop of lube into the opened valve stem solved any issue with the valve sticking.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

yuris said:


> Thanks, i must have missed those pressure discussions. I was told to do 120 by LBS from which i got my bike originally. My weight is 170, and I ride 23mm. Admittedly this is my first road biking season (used to ride hybrid before), and at least I did not get any flats in 800 miles. If i will go down o 100 psi, will increase flat likelihood?


there are lots of bike shop employees that don't know what they're talking about just there are lots of 'normal' folks that don't have a clue. you choose your type and size of tire for the performance and ride quality you want for the 99.999999999% of the time you're not running over a rock or a pothole. smaller riders can use smaller tires, larger riders need bigger tires. it's not a tough concept. 23, 25, and 28mm tires inflated to 100psi will all feel different. the larger tires (more air volume) will lower your chances of pinch flatting due to the increased volume of air so you can run the larger tires at lower pressure. this gives you...
less rolling resistance
more comfort
better traction
longer tire wear
the smaller tires need higher pressure to reduce pinch flats, but that means they're rock hard. they don't roll well...they don't have as much traction...and they're not comfortable. why would you increase rolling resistance, lower your available traction, and ruin your ride..._on purpose?_ 
i'm the same weight as you, i inflate my tires like this...
road tubeless 75frt/85rr 23mm
road clincher 80/90 23mm
road tubular 80/95 22mm
cx tubular 24-26psi 33mm
mtb 19-21 frt/23-25rr 2.3-2.4"
track tubular concrete track 110psi
track tubular wood track 160psi
you will be slightly more likely to pinch flat at 100psi than you would be at 120, but like i said...inflate your tires for the huge majority of the time you're actually riding and not flatting. in the last 10yrs i've had precisely zero pinch flats. i've punctured 3 tubulars in that time, and had maybe 3 or 4 more punctures w/ the clinchers. 

and if your shop guy can't figure out tire pressure, you may want to find someone that knows what he's doing.


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## yuris (Oct 4, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> there are lots of bike shop employees that don't know what they're talking about just there are lots of 'normal' folks that don't have a clue. you choose your type and size of tire for the performance and ride quality you want for the 99.999999999% of the time you're not running over a rock or a pothole. smaller riders can use smaller tires, larger riders need bigger tires. it's not a tough concept. 23, 25, and 28mm tires inflated to 100psi will all feel different. the larger tires (more air volume) will lower your chances of pinch flatting due to the increased volume of air so you can run the larger tires at lower pressure. this gives you...
> less rolling resistance
> more comfort
> better traction
> ...


thank you, will give it a go. I no longer use that LBS, and in a one i am visiting now, i never bothered asking.
Btw, whats the ground for having 10psi difference between front/rear?


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## My Own Private Idaho (Aug 14, 2007)

yuris said:


> thank you, will give it a go. I no longer use that LBS, and in a one i am visiting now, i never bothered asking.
> Btw, whats the ground for having 10psi difference between front/rear?


Most of your weight is on the rear wheel. The front tire can safely have less air in it.

In my opinion, nobody should ride anything smaller than 25mm tires. Of course, that's a personal opinion. 28's and 32's are even better.


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## rbnyc (Feb 22, 2009)

j.carney.tx said:


> Now, back to the OP, I also had this issue with a Lezyne CNC floor pump. Sometimes just tapping the valve to release pressure doesn't always work. I've used other pumps and have always tapped the valve prior to connecting the pump head and have never had any issue. When I got the Lezyne, with it's screw-on head, I was baffled as to why it didn't work. I found that putting a small drop of lube into the opened valve stem solved any issue with the valve sticking.


I'll try that. One of the reasons I even posted this is because of my experience with other pumps. There have been responses that made it sound like this is something that is part of using presta valves but I've used other pumps where you simply attach the hose and pump away. The Blackburn that I also own, for instance. I switched to the Lezyne because the head for the Blackburn just pushes up onto the valve and is held there by the threads. So far so good. Now it's time to take the pump head off of the valve:Struggle, struggle, pull....finally it comes off. And if you are lucky you didn't just pull the valve off of the tube.

So, it seems as if this is mostly an attribute of the screw on type head used by Lezyne.


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## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

rbnyc said:


> So, it seems as if this is mostly an attribute of the screw on type head used by Lezyne.


I have the same challenge with my Specialized floor pump, which has a "lever" type head. It's a bit further compounded by the fact that the lever head is kind of heavy/clunky, so if it hangs a certain way it seems to impede the flow of air. I find I need to rotate the wheel to where the valve stem is at about the 10 or 2 o'clock position in order to get the pump head to be angled properly to let air in. Not a hardship, mind you. Just need to pay attention to what I'm doing.


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## Blackbeerthepirate (Apr 26, 2011)

I think it helps to be smarter than the floor pump.


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## Shinjukan (Aug 22, 2011)

The trick that does it with my Lezyne Sport Floor Drive is to screw the pump valve all the way in, then back off a couple of small turns. My theory was that the reason why my pump's gauge needle goes all the way to the right was because my tube doesn't accept the air if the pressure's too much. The high pressure being pumped freezes the valve and nothing wants to give in hence the pressure only builds inside the hose. So by allowing a way for the air to bleed if the pressure's too much by loosening the pump screw a bit, it will eventually force the air inside the tire valve.

Good thing I read this thread. Now I know the easier thing to do was to just tap the screw to 'un-freeze' it and it's good to go. Thanks.


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## AndreyT (Dec 1, 2011)

deleted


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## caad105 (Jul 19, 2012)

whatever u do, be gentle with the stem. I have torn mine trying to remove the pump.


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## rbnyc (Feb 22, 2009)

caad105 said:


> whatever u do, be gentle with the stem. I have torn mine trying to remove the pump.


Which is pretty much how this thread started. My Blackburn did that. It is not possible (unless you really screw up) to tear the valve off with the Lezyne.


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## Shinjukan (Aug 22, 2011)

rbnyc said:


> Which is pretty much how this thread started. My Blackburn did that. It is not possible (unless you really screw up) to tear the valve off with the Lezyne.


The complaint with the Lezyne floor pumps before they came up with the ABS Flip-Thread chuck was that it un-cores the valve when unscrewing the chuck. The new chuck has a bleeder button that releases the trapped air in the hose thereby avoiding the old issue.

But ripping the entire valve stem is virtually impossible with the Lezyne with its screw-type design. Well, unless one is too careless in forgetting that the pump hose is still attached to the wheel and they already took off. By then the ripped valve stem would be the least of their concerns as there are other more expensive parts on their bike that will need attention.


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## AndreyT (Dec 1, 2011)

In discussions about this issue there's always a key question hanging in the air, which many (if not most) participants are quietly trying to avoid to some reason. The question is about the fundamental principle of operation of a bicycle pump. Here it is

*When you attach the pump head to a Presta valve, is it supposed to press on the valve head and mechanically open the valve (and keep it open)? Or is the valve supposed to stay closed, to be open later by the pressure of the air being forced from outside by the pump?*

Now, I looked through several pumps (more precisely: pump heads) made by Topeak and one by Lezyne (regular lock-lever type). Nether head was designed to mechanically open Presta valves when attached. When you attach such head to a Presta valve, no air escapes from the tube, since the tube valve remains closed. When you detach such head from the valve, only the residual pressure from the pump hose escapes in a short burst. No air from the tire manages to escape, since once the outside pressure begins to drop the tube valve closes instantly.

The immediately explains the "sticking" behavior we observe. The valve has to be "unstuck" by the external air pushing from outside. This sometimes requires considerable pressure with a "sticky" valve. And, of course, the greater the inner tube pressure is, the harder it is to push through the valve for the first time. However, once the valve gets open, the pressure between the tube and the pump hose equalizes, meaning that the tube valve never closes again. It remains "unloaded" (i.e. effectively open) until you detach the pump head (or until you release the hose pressure by external "blow off" valve some pumps are equipped with).

Now, I see that some cyclists claim that their pump heads _are_ designed to mechanically depress the head of Presta valve when the pump head is attached to the valve. According to what they say, their pump heads have some sort of "pin" that is there specifically to push the valve head in. That would be a different design. In my experience, this design is more rare than what I described above. A pump head like that would indeed solve the problem of a sticking valve. At the same time it would require a more "sharp and decisive" yank when the head is being removed from the valve stem, since as long as the Presta is depressed the air can escape the tire.

Now, would someone be so kind to name the pumps/pump heads that use this second design approach, i.e pump heads that actually mechanically force Presta valves open when attached? It would be interesting to try one.


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