# Defy Advanced Pro, Sl, etc



## EdselRoams (Jan 8, 2016)

Hi Folks,

I am interested in the new (2016) Defy Advanced Pro (or possibly the SL, but more likely the Pro). The Pro 2 seems to hit a far superior price point for value.

I am confused by the pricing of the "2" vs. the "0" of the Pro models. The "0" is $1,900 more but as far as I can tell the only differences are the composite wheelset (which retails for $600/pair) and the Dura Ace over Ultegra. Even taking that these are partial groups and not complete component groups (since both bikes have the same disc breaks), that might account for another $400 difference. 

Those two features don't account for a $1,900 price difference, though. Would someone explain to me if there is something I am missing here?

Also, does anyone want to make a case for the added $$ for the higher grade SL over the Pro? Since the frame of the Pro appears to be identical to the frame of the base Defy Advanced (which start at $1,800) I guess you're getting a sub-$1,000 frame with the Pro.

Anyhow, that's plenty for a cumbersome initial post. Thanks for any and all thoughts on this.

-Ed


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## Rogus (Nov 10, 2010)

The wheelset is not $600/pair. The wheelset is $1,200 retail.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

EdselRoams said:


> Those two features don't account for a $1,900 price difference, though.


Yes they do.

I have some sage advice for you: Buy the best thing you can, if you have credit, use it now. Do everything you can to avoid buyer's remorse. Buy the best now. If you're capable buy a frameset that fits you perfectly. Then buy the whole groupset separately and the components separately and get the best of everything you can. Make sure it fits correctly. Spend the money once and worry about nothing but riding from then on.


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## EdselRoams (Jan 8, 2016)

Could someone answer this simpler question:
*Do the Defy Advanced and Defy Advanced Pro lines have the same frame? *An employee at a bike shop today told me that they do, but on the Giant website this is not made clear. Both frames are listed as "Advanced-grade composite frame" with no additional explanation.

Thanks
Ed


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## sjbadham (Mar 6, 2012)

EdselRoams said:


> Could someone answer this simpler question:
> *Do the Defy Advanced and Defy Advanced Pro lines have the same frame? *An employee at a bike shop today told me that they do, but on the Giant website this is not made clear. Both frames are listed as "Advanced-grade composite frame" with no additional explanation.
> 
> Thanks
> Ed


As far as I am aware, the frames of the Defy Advanced and the Defy Advanced Pro are composed of the same carbon layup and have the same geometry. However, the forks are slightly different due to different steerer tube technology. The Defy Advanced uses what Giant refers to as the "Hybrid OverDrive steerer," whereas the Defy Advanced Pro is equipped with the "Full-composite OverDrive 2 steerer". (Giant's website explains the difference between the two here.) In essence, the steerer of the Defy Advanced tapers from 1.25" at the crown to 1.125" at the top (where the stem attaches), and appears to be made of aluminum (which I'm assuming is what the "hybrid" refers to, i.e., implying a carbon fork with an alloy steerer tube). By contrast, the Advanced Pro has a steerer tube that is thicker overall, tapering from 1.5" at the crown to 1.25" at the top, and is made of carbon fiber like the fork (i.e., "fully composite"). The additional 0.125" thickness of the steerer on the Advanced Pro (and the fact that it's carbon fiber) combine, according to Giant, for an additional 30% stiffness in the steering (i.e., better responsiveness when carving turns on descents, etc.). I've not ridden anything other than an OverDrive2-equipped bike, but I'm sure you can check the forums for others' observations regarding whether there's an observable difference between OverDrive and OverDrive2 steerers.

If you're looking at complete bikes, the other differences between the two models (in addition to the wheelset and groupset, which you discussed above) are in the stem, handlebars, and seatpost, which often go overlooked. These can be broken down (Advanced vs Advanced Pro) as:

Stem: Giant Connect (1.125", 6061 alloy, steel hardware) vs. Giant Contact SL OverDrive 2 (1.25", 6061 alloy, titanium hardware)

Handlebars: Giant Contact vs. Giant Contact SL (I think the only difference here is the use of steel vs titanium hardware in the Advanced vs. Advanced Pro, respectively)

Seatpost: Giant D-Fuse composite vs Giant D-fuse SL composite (the main difference here being that the Defy Advanced has only limited seat clamp adjustability, whereas the Advanced Pro has a seat clamp with infinite-angle adjustment which should help to dial in the seat angle better).

You could conceivably calculate the cost difference between the two bikes based solely on components and probably come up with _close_ to the same price after upgrading the less expensive frame with the better components, but you'd still be stuck with the smaller steerer tube (which may or may not be important to you, depending on what kind of riding you do). Throw in the fact that the Advanced Pro has the benefit of some other niceties that you likely wouldn't bother upgrading (e.g., hardware, seat clamp, etc.), and I think the Advanced Pro is, for the money, probably the better bike. Upgrading the lower spec'd bike would probably just cost more in the long run.

Hope that helps.


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## ljvb (Dec 10, 2014)

Well damn.. for a 1 post user.. that's a pretty damn good first post 

I ride the Advanced Pro 0, it's a damn good ride. Others seem to disagree with me (in the n00b thread), but I always say, once you find a comfortable well fitted ride, is to by the one with the frame you ultimately want with the lower component spec, and then upgrade the components over time as you feel the need or they were out. Yes, you ultimately end up spending more, but it is more over time versus more on the initial purchase. Great if you can afford it, but I am not one of those (although I used my bonus to buy the bike).


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## EdselRoams (Jan 8, 2016)

Could you direct me to this "n00b" thread you speak of? thanks!


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## ljvb (Dec 10, 2014)

I did not name the thread, so don't take it as me calling someone a noob  It's about a particular set of bikes and carbon vs aluminum, but you might get some good info from there.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/be...-bike-alloy-vs-carbon-comparisons-352363.html


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## EdselRoams (Jan 8, 2016)

Ok, thanks. I think I am mostly beyond those considerations. I have a CAAD 10 and am looking to supplement (or replace) with a more compliant/relaxed bike for longer rides. Our roads suck around here and, despite what many CAAD 10 advocates swear, it does not ride like a compliant carbon bike. I get neck/back achey after 1.5-2 hours or so. Was thinking an Advanced Pro 2 would be a good choice, or possibly a Trek Domane 5.2 as my local LBS is a Trek distributor.
Thanks,
-Ed


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## ljvb (Dec 10, 2014)

I switched from a Giant TCX geared for road.. talk about a stiff ride  I can say I have no problems doing 60 to 100 miles on the Advanced Pro, it is comfortable and not quite as ridged.


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## Roland44 (Mar 21, 2013)

ljvb said:


> I switched from a Giant TCX geared for road.. talk about a stiff ride  I can say I have no problems doing 60 to 100 miles on the Advanced Pro, it is comfortable and not quite as ridged.


That's good to hear, I am thinking about switching as well.


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## EdselRoams (Jan 8, 2016)

At the risk of kicking a dead horse, I am still confused as to how Giant is pricing their Defy Advanced Pro and SLs.
Compare the Advanced Pro 0 (AP0) and the SL1
Price: SL1: $4,600; AP0: $5,100
Frame: SL1 has higher grade composite (advantage: SL1)
Wheels: SL1 has SLR0; AP0 has SLR1 ($900 advantage: SL1)
Handlebar/stem: SL1 has SLR (carbon); AP0 has SL (alloy) (advantage: SL1)
Components: SL1 has Ultegra mechanical; AP0 has Dura Ace mechanical (advantage: AP0, but this is really just the drive train, as the brakes are both Shimano hydraulic disc)

So, the SL gets the higher grade frame + $900 more in wheels + carbon front cockpit with the only downgrade being Ultegra drive train, and it's $500 cheaper.

These are great bikes. I am trying to figure out which one to buy. I test-rode a sub-Pro with mechanical discs at the local shop here and it was awesome.

But I don't understand the pricing. The AP 0 might very well be a great kit overall, but where does the $5,100 sticker price come from?

Maybe I am missing something here. Looking for insight. Thanks,
-Ed


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## sjbadham (Mar 6, 2012)

EdselRoams said:


> At the risk of kicking a dead horse, I am still confused as to how Giant is pricing their Defy Advanced Pro and SLs.
> Compare the Advanced Pro 0 (AP0) and the SL1
> Price: SL1: $4,600; AP0: $5,100
> Frame: SL1 has higher grade composite (advantage: SL1)
> ...


The price difference between the SLR1 wheelset (as on the AP0) and the SLR0 wheelset (as on the ASL1) is only about $450, not $900 (at least according to the Giant website), but you're point is well taken. If we focus on just the price difference between the wheelsets (+$450 for the ASL1) and the drive trains (+$600 for the AP0), the AP0 comes out with slightly more "value" on paper (~$150), but as you rightly point out, there's more to the bikes than just the wheels and the drive trains. That +$150 of value in the AP0 disappears pretty quick when you take into account the better frame and other "accoutrement" of the ASL1, to the point that the ASL1 is probably a better value, at least if we're talking about the 2016 models. The 2015 AP0 was equipped with Ultegra Di2 instead of Dura Ace mechanical (as on the 2016 AP0), and I would have thought that would be a better selling point to people. But, it appears Giant didn't have a lot of success selling the Ultegra Di2-equipped 2015 AP0, as evidenced by the fact that they did away with any Ultegra Di2-equipped Advanced Pro bikes in 2016 (at least in the U.S.). Overseas markets actually still offer a 2016 Advanced Pro with Ultegra Di2 (the AP1, I believe), so Giant USA must have had some reason behind the move. I'm a big fan of Ultegra mechanical (probably there best bang-for-your-buck value out there), so the ASL1 would seem like the right choice, especially if you're looking to keep the frame around for along time and upgrade components in a few years as you see fit. The frame is the immutable heart of the bike, so it seems reasonable to place more emphasis on that than the components -- especially if the components are already quite good.


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## EdselRoams (Jan 8, 2016)

...now if I could only find a post from someone who's ridden each of the new Advanced Pro and SL frames. But thanks for the response, SJ.


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## balatoe (Apr 15, 2009)

I bought a 2015 SL 0 last August at closeout price. I have never ridding the AP 0 but did consider buying it when I was at the bike shop. The bike shop owner advised me that, with the integrated seat post on the SL frame, the seat post becomes an integral part of the frame and therefore, it's a bit more comfortable compared to the AP frame.

I have put on over a 1000 miles since I bought it which include a 44 miles ride last Saturday and a 45 mile ride last Sunday. The SL frame is very comfortable. The front triangle is pretty stiff but the rear triangle, especially the seat post, flexes. The only drawback I can think of in regards to the SL frame is the resale value of the frame. Once the seat post is cut to fit your body, you only have about 1 cm of extension with the use of spacers that come with the bike.


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## EdselRoams (Jan 8, 2016)

Great! Thanks for that feedback. As the risk of asking you to compare apples and oranges, how would you compare the rides of your SL 0 and your Lynskey?
Thanks,
-Ed


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## balatoe (Apr 15, 2009)

Great question. The Lynskey R230 is a very comfortable bike especially if you put 25 mm tires on and run them at 95 psi. I used that bike to do double centuries until I bought my Defy. However, it doesn't handle as well as the Defy especially on descends. The Defy gives me more confidence bombing down the mountain at 40mph. Not so with the Lynskey. The Shimano hydroulic disc brakes really shine on high speed descends. That's one of the reasons why I bought the Defy.

If you are looking for a comfortable bike that you can ride all day, I would say both bikes will do the job well. However, the Defy is just a bit better than the Lynskey on descends.


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