# Finally joined the darkside and got my first road bike.



## d1zzl3 (Jun 6, 2011)

Saw this on craigslist for $300. It's a Univega R7.6 Carbolite. What do you guys think?


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Nice old bike. Strange choice to put Sora shifters on it. There are plenty of bonded carbon frames like that that are in kickass shape, but you might have your shop take a look at it just in case.


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## d1zzl3 (Jun 6, 2011)

just wondering, why is it a strange choice?


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

It's not an especially well-regarded shifter, and that bike would probably have had the matching shifters. I'm not sure if Shimano 600 ever had an integrated shifter. I'd suspect probably not until it became Ultegra, but could be wrong. Anyway, it's a mismatch for the general level of the other components.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Very nice.....the 600 group is 8 speed and most likely had downtube shifters.. I'm guessing the owner probably wanted to upgrade to STI shifters and Sora was choice..

Nothing wrong with them....enjoy the bike....you got a good deal....


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## ProdigalCyclist (May 3, 2011)

d1zzl3 said:


> just wondering, why is it a strange choice?


I don't know why the other guy thought it's a strange choice but here's why I think it was.

Sora is about 4 steps down the pecking order from Shimano Ultegra (which is what 600 is... even though that is 90's componants) The Sora is about 15 years younger than the rest of that groupo, and Sora also has the thumb levers where the Brifters that actually belong with that group have the real STI levers. (like this... http://cgi.ebay.com/SHIMANO-600-ULT...Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4cf79eab4b ) 

For the record... that Ebay listing is pretty steep... I've seen the Dura Ace counterpart to that set listed at that same price and it didn't sell)

The Sora configuration IMHO is a little less user friendly than the 600 STI that would match the rest of the groupo on that bike.

All in all though I think you got yourself a good deal for a 600 equiped bike @ what you paid for it. I'm not sure what level of experience you are at bike maint so if you have a fair amount of skills in that area I don't want to offend you by telling you to have a shop give it a once over just to be sure about everything. 

The 90s bike will work just fine for ya though... at the very least it's a great launching point :thumbsup:


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## ProdigalCyclist (May 3, 2011)

AndrwSwitch said:


> It's not an especially well-regarded shifter, and that bike would probably have had the matching shifters. I'm not sure if Shimano 600 ever had an integrated shifter. I'd suspect probably not until it became Ultegra, but could be wrong. Anyway, it's a mismatch for the general level of the other components.




600 had a STI shifter I gave him a link to one that is selling on Ebay right now... the listing on Ebay is waaaay overpriced but at least he can see what they look like.


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## BostonG (Apr 13, 2010)

I’ll call it the limbo bike. It’s not quite old enough to be retro but not young enough to be modern. 

Looks great. Enjoy the ride.


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## d1zzl3 (Jun 6, 2011)

thanks for the info everyone. I was going to buy the Vilano Forza 4.0 at roadbikeoutlet.com, but before I decided to push the purchase link I decided to check craigslist one more time and saw this. 

As for my maintenance skills its pretty novice. I will have my LBS take a look at it next Wednesday and get it tuned. The only thing I've done so far was replace the pedals, clean the chain, ring, derailers and some rust cleanup.


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## ProdigalCyclist (May 3, 2011)

d1zzl3 said:


> thanks for the info everyone. I was going to buy the Vilano Forza 4.0 at roadbikeoutlet.com, but before I decided to push the purchase link I decided to check craigslist one more time and saw this.
> 
> As for my maintenance skills its pretty novice. I will have my LBS take a look at it next Wednesday and get it tuned. The only thing I've done so far was replace the pedals, clean the chain, ring, derailers and some rust cleanup.




I think you did really well overall. For the price I think it was the way to go. So often people go all out with their first Road bike only to find out it's not for them, and then they end up with a $1500- $2000 piece of yard art in their garage.

As for the age etc... I just recently got back in to riding and I decided to go with a bike from a similar era. Mine is also a Lugged Carbon frame and so far I have no complaints what so ever (I posted some pics of mine in the "Show me your entry level road bike" thread)

You're wise to have a LBS check it out and tune it up for you. I did the same thing even though I used to actually be a bicycle mechanic and Cat 2 racer (that was many moons ago). 

You've already changed the pedals, I would suggest you just keep an eye out on Ebay and Craigs for the Shimano 600 (model #6400) Shift/Brake levers to match the rest of your groupo. I think you'd be more happy with those. The ones I put on my bike were the Dura Ace (model #7400) Shift/Brake levers (those are the Dura Ace equivilant for the same years) I found my set on Craigs for $113.00 (and that INCLUDED shipping, cables, and the cable stops for the downtubes) Other than that, a good seat can make a million % difference in the "coolness" in terms of the looks of your bike (and would probably be quite a bit more comfy than the one shown in the pic)

Overall you made a solid choice... I think you'll be happy with it... and that's what really counts.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

ProdigalCyclist said:


> *600 had a STI shifter *I gave him a link to one that is selling on Ebay right now... the listing on Ebay is waaaay overpriced but at least he can see what they look like.


Actually, it didn't. Shimano's 600 group started out as a 6 speed drivetrain with d/ tube (friction) shifters, then became indexed (600EX). It then went to 7 spd and became 600 Ultegra, then had the STI option in it's 8 speed iteration (still named 600 Ultegra, but referred to as Ultegra). By 9 speed, the 600 name designation was dropped.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/shimano.html#600


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I always say if the bike fits and you enjoy riding it, you got a good deal. :thumbsup: 

FWIW, I disagree with those finding fault with the Sora shifters. Once set up/ tuned properly, they'll perform well and prove to be durable. IMO the biggest drawback is that you need to have your hands positioned on the hoods to employ the thumb tabs, but that's where many riders (especially noobs) normally place their hands when crusing.

One word of caution re: the frame. With any mixed materials frame (with bonded CF tubes to alu lugs) it's wise to have someone experienced periodically check the areas for weakness/ signs of bonding failure. It doesn't happen so much with the current crop of bikes, but in years past there have been some problems.


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## ProdigalCyclist (May 3, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> Actually, it didn't. Shimano's 600 group started out as a 6 speed drivetrain with d/ tube (friction) shifters, then became indexed (600EX). It then went to 7 spd and became 600 Ultegra, then had the STI option in it's 8 speed iteration (still named 600 Ultegra, but referred to as Ultegra). By 9 speed, the 600 name designation was dropped.
> 
> https://www.sheldonbrown.com/shimano.html#600




Actually yes it did... and here's a picture











At that time Shimano went through a lot of variations with in the same model run. That's why in Dura Ace you have the 7400, 7403 and 7410 Models that were all being manufactured at roughly the same time. This was also the time that the STI was just coming out. Shimano 600 was actually the model name of Shimano's second tier component at the time that STI was origionally released. AND THEN 600 went to the designation of Ultegra.

I know for a fact that 600 had STI... the picture is above.... AND I had friends that used it. (back then)


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

ProdigalCyclist said:


> Actually yes it did... and here's a picture
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My point was simply that when it was designated _only_ as a 600 group, it didn't have an STI option. By the time 600_ Ultegra _was introduced (along with 8 speed) it did. 

If you want to prove that statement wrong, you'll have to post some pics of 6 or 7 speed STI shifters, and I know you can't. The pic you posted has a 600 designation on the face, but the group was 600 Ultegra (8 spd).


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## ProdigalCyclist (May 3, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> My point was simply that when it was designated _only_ as a 600 group, it didn't have an STI option. By the time 600_ Ultegra _was introduced (along with 8 speed) it did.
> 
> If you want to prove that statement wrong, you'll have to post some pics of 6 or 7 speed STI shifters, and I know you can't. The pic you posted has a 600 designation on the face, but the group was 600 Ultegra (8 spd).





And now we're in a battle of scemantics that doesn't make sense, because what you are referring to doesn't apply, because the bike we are talking about is 8 speed... and the groupo on the bike comes from the same model run that those *600* shifters came from. 

At the time that STI came out you still had a choice... you could get the regular *600* groupo (with downtube shifters) or you could get the STI Groupo. The same applied to the Dura Ace groupo... the 105 SC didn't have an STI option.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

As I mentioned above there is nothing wrong with Sora.....New Sora shifters vs early 90's 600 shifters of unknown mileage and care.......I'd take new Sora....

Remember when you read forums like RBR, we tend to be snobs....It's the same in photography forums and audio forums.....There is high end and there is perfectly acceptable for the vast majority of people... there isn't a minimally acceptable road group.

There are plenty of riders that ride thousands of miles per year on Sora, Tiagra and 2300....The groups perform just fine.....

If you enjoy this sport and want to continue, think about upgrading.... but having Sora on a bike isn't going to diminish your riding experience

Personally I love the bike you bought,.....I have a couple of carbon tubed, aluminum lugged bikes and love them


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

ProdigalCyclist said:


> And now we're in a battle of scemantics that doesn't make sense, because what you are referring to doesn't apply, because the bike we are talking about is 8 speed... and the groupo on the bike comes from the same model run that those *600* shifters came from.
> 
> At the time that STI came out you still had a choice... you could get the regular *600* groupo (with downtube shifters) or you could get the STI Groupo. The same applied to the Dura Ace groupo... the 105 SC didn't have an STI option.


You're glossing over the fact that 8 speed STI's _only work on 8 speed drivetrains_, which (at the time) were 600 Ultegra, not 600. 600 groupsets only came in 6 & 7 speed iterations. 

So, again I say, show me 6/7 speed sTI's and you'll prove me wrong.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Dave Hickey said:


> As I mentioned above there is nothing wrong with Sora.....*New Sora shifters vs early 90's 600 shifters of unknown mileage and care.......I'd take new Sora....*


+1 to that! :thumbsup:


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## stover (Apr 24, 2010)

d1zzl3 said:


> Saw this on craigslist for $300. It's a Univega R7.6 Carbolite. What do you guys think?


I'm thinking you got a good deal. nice bike for 300.


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## ProdigalCyclist (May 3, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> You're glossing over the fact that 8 speed STI's _only work on 8 speed drivetrains_, which (at the time) were 600 Ultegra, not 600. 600 groupsets only came in 6 & 7 speed iterations.
> 
> So, again I say, show me 6/7 speed sTI's and you'll prove me wrong.



Actually no... I'm not glossing over anything. You said (at the begining of this dicussion) that 600 did not have STI. And it clearly did. When I showed you a picture of 600 STI you side stepped by saying well that's 600 _Ultegra_ not 600. But if you'll look back at previous posts in THIS thread I even said that 600 is what Ultegra actually is... and that is true... in the way that it applies to THIS bike (and the groupo on it) which is what we're talking about.

At the point in time we are talking about 600 _is_ Ultegra and Ultegra _is_ 600 Because the ACTUAL moniker from Shimano (at the time) was Shimano 600 Ultegra and the model number for it was 6400.

The proper name of the second tier of Shimano components was Shimano 600 Ultegra up UNTIL the 9 speed Ultegra came out... Sheldon Brown even says that in the line you quoted.

What you are doing is arguing nomeclature... but at the time that this groupo was out it was still refferred to as Shimano 600 by me, all the riders I associated with, and in the bike shop I worked at... dispite what Sheldon Brown says people called it.

We are essentially calling the same thing two different names. But in respect to the bike that we are talking about... that groupo did IN FACT have an option of STI... My guess would be that, that bike origionally came with downtube shifters because not many people could afford STI when it first came out (which was just about the time that bike came out) and I will bet that later on someone decided they wanted to replace the DT shifters and that's where the SORA came in... but it was NOT because that groupo didn't have an STI option.


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## ProdigalCyclist (May 3, 2011)

Dave Hickey said:


> As I mentioned above there is nothing wrong with Sora.....New Sora shifters vs early 90's 600 shifters of unknown mileage and care.......I'd take new Sora....
> 
> Remember when you read forums like RBR, we tend to be snobs....It's the same in photography forums and audio forums.....There is high end and there is perfectly acceptable for the vast majority of people... there isn't a minimally acceptable road group.
> 
> ...



The problem with what you say about taking SORA shifters over 600 shiters of "unkown milage and care" is this...

The SORA shifters are of "unknown milage and care" 

So either way you are using a pair of shifters that are of an unknown quantity. But the early STI shifters were VERY durable... I'm not so sure you can say that about SORA shifters.

Now I want to clarify something to the OP... I am NOT in any way diminishing your bike. I think you got an awesome deal. And I don't think the SORA shifters are "bad" per se. I just know a lot of people out there like to have things match. And I also know that *I* prefer the STI set up over the little thumb thingies that are on SORA shifters.

The only reason I brought up looking for the 600 (or the Ultegra shifters for the peanut gallery) is to show they can be found and they can be found at a fairly reasonable price *IF* you were to decide you want the shifters to A) match the bike or B) like the STI set up better.... or both.

But you got an awesome bike... and I really hope you enjoy riding it as much as I'm enjoying riding my Lugged Carbon road machine :thumbsup:


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

ProdigalCyclist said:


> Actually no... I'm not glossing over anything. You said (at the begining of this dicussion) that 600 did not have STI. And it clearly did. When I showed you a picture of 600 STI you side stepped by saying well that's 600 _Ultegra_ not 600. But if you'll look back at previous posts in THIS thread I even said that 600 is what Ultegra actually is... and that is true... in the way that it applies to THIS bike (and the groupo on it) which is what we're talking about.
> 
> At the point in time we are talking about 600 _is_ Ultegra and Ultegra _is_ 600 Because the ACTUAL moniker from Shimano (at the time) was Shimano 600 Ultegra and the model number for it was 6400.
> 
> ...


You're doing it again. 600 started out as 600, not 600 Ultegra and it did not offer STI. It was offered as a 6 spd d/ tube (friction) shifter group. You said otherwise, and that's incorrect. 

Again, no side steps. The pic you posted has Shimano 600 written on the shifter, but it's a part of the 600 Ultegra 8 speed drivetrain. There is no 6 or 7 spd STI (I think you know that) and given your statement that 600 was offered with STI's there would have to be.

This isn't semantics. It's that your statement is incorrect. The 600 groupset did not offer STI's. Period. 8 spd 600 Ultegra did. And I don't know enough about the OP's bike to argue unknowns about the bike or its OEM equipment, nor am I willing to make assumptions relating to it. I'm saying that your statement that the_ 600 group _was offered with STI's is incorrect. And it is.

We've shared our views on the topic, so (IMO) it's time to agree to disagree and leave it to members to decide for themselves, assuming the issue even matters to them.

OP: Apologies for the slightly off-topic convo. Enjoy your new ride!!


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## ProdigalCyclist (May 3, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> You're doing it again. 600 started out as 600, not 600 Ultegra and it did not offer STI. It was offered as a 6 spd d/ tube (friction) shifter group. You said otherwise, and that's incorrect.
> 
> Again, no side steps. The pic you posted has Shimano 600 written on the shifter, but it's a part of the 600 Ultegra 8 speed drivetrain. There is no 6 or 7 spd STI (I think you know that) and for your statement that 600 was offered with STI's there would have to be.
> 
> ...




LMAO... So essentially what you are saying is that you are right... even though the evedince proves you other wise so we should agree to disagree because you aren't going to admit your wrong.

Ok... you win... would you like the sticker or the bag of animal crackers?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

ProdigalCyclist said:


> LMAO... So essentially what you are saying is that you are right... even though the evedince proves you other wise so we should agree to disagree because you aren't going to admit your wrong.
> 
> Ok... you win... would you like the sticker or the bag of animal crackers?


There's no question that I'm right, and (as I've posted) the 'evidence' proves it. If you doubt it, post pics of 6 or 7 speed Shimano 600 STI's. Bet you don't.


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## forge55b (Jan 30, 2011)

great buy to get into the sport.....

and to the two that are kind of thread jacking......you guys are NERDS!


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Back in '94 (?) when I bought my first road bike (with 8 speed STI 105) the nest step up looked so _nice_ with polished parts instead of boring grey painted. What I didn't get was that some bits were marked 600 and some Ultegra...

Nice bike!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

forge55b said:


> great buy to get into the sport.....
> 
> and to the two that are kind of thread jacking......you guys are NERDS!


I don't see it as threadjacking, but you're entitled to your opinion. 

Sometimes the choice comes down to letting an inaccuracy lie or calling someone on it. In this instance, I chose the latter.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

kbwh said:


> Back in '94 (?) when I bought my first road bike (with 8 speed STI 105) the nest step up looked so _nice_ with polished parts instead of boring grey painted. *What I didn't get was that some bits were marked 600 and some Ultegra*...
> 
> Nice bike!


And the Sheldon Brown (RIP) link I provided should answer that.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Yeah, I saw that now. Those interwebs were not so readily available back in '94.


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## ProdigalCyclist (May 3, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> There's no question that I'm right, and (as I've posted) the 'evidence' proves it. If you doubt it, post pics of 6 or 7 speed Shimano 600 STI's. Bet you don't.




Look dude... give it up! You are WRONG!

I don't need to post a pic of 6 or 7 speed 600 STIs because any moron knows that STI didn't come out until AFTER 8 speed came out.

This whole discussion started because someone asked if Shimano 600 had STI... they asked the question DIRECTLY RELATING to the component groupo on the bike in this thread. The component groupo on the bike in this thread is Shimano 600 Ultegra but THE QUESTION WAS asked wether 600 had STI meaning the 600 IN THIS THREAD because the poster that asked the question was asking about what they saw in the pictures of the bike IN THIS THREAD because what they saw on the components in the pictures IN THIS THREAD said 600.... NOT.... 600 Ultegra. I answered the question and I said yes it did. And you wanted to be a tool and start arguing about scemantics etc and try to make yourself look all smart.... I then posted a picture of the shifters that match the set of components on the bike IN THIS THREAD. And even then you feel the need to argue a point you have already lost.

So quit being a tool and bringing up 6 and 7 speed 600 because 6 and 7 speed 600 was out of production 5+ years before this bike was ever produced... So that arguement does NOT apply to the bike IN THIS THREAD or the question that was posed and that I answered, yet the components still say 600 on them and that's what people called them. They did not start really referring to the second tier Shimano as Ultegra until Ultegra was the moniker that was printed on the freaking components.

I know FULL well that Shimano 600 was actually Shimano 600 Ultegra at the time this bike came out... and I stated such in MY FIRST POST in this thread. But the question was asked wether 600 had STI and the poster that asked the question was asking if the 600 in the pictures had STI probably not knowing that at the time 600 and Ultegra was the same thing. I answered the question as simply as possible and you went and started diluting the arguement with useless information.

*So let me make this simple.... 
Question: Did the component set in the origional pics have STI as an option?
Answer: YES it did*

Is that simple enough for you? Because that is what the question intended to mean, by my estimation.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

ProdigalCyclist said:


> Is that simple enough for you?


If you want simple, here's simple:

The Shimano 600 group (notice the absence of the word Ultegra) was never offered with STI's.

I realize you see this as an inconvenient truth (but it is fact), so feel free to rant on.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

ProdigalCyclist said:


> Look dude... give it up! You are WRONG!
> 
> I don't need to post a pic of 6 or 7 speed 600 STIs because any moron knows that STI didn't come out until AFTER 8 speed came out.
> 
> ...


You like yelling at people.






.....and you're very opinionated.


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## o0adam0o (Jul 24, 2010)

I was runing the same shimano 600 group you had with Sora shifters. It was the cheapest option for me. Loved it while i had it 

Nice bike


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## d1zzl3 (Jun 6, 2011)

After some cleaning and fine tuning, I finally took this baby out for a nice 30 mile ride on the SART this morning. Had to do a minor adjustment to the stem, as I felt I was leaning forward too much. After that I rode it all the way to Anza park and a few miles past the park until I reached the construction zone and made the turn back. So far I'm quite happy with the purchase. Thanks everyone for the comments!!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

d1zzl3 said:


> After some cleaning and fine tuning, I finally took this baby out for a nice 30 mile ride on the SART this morning. *Had to do a minor adjustment to the stem*, as I felt I was leaning forward too much. After that I rode it all the way to Anza park and a few miles past the park until I reached the construction zone and made the turn back. So far I'm quite happy with the purchase. Thanks everyone for the comments!!


That's the nice thing about those quill stems... easy (and quick) up/ down adjustments.

Glad you're 'out there' enjoying your bike. :thumbsup:


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## Patterson (Jun 27, 2011)

Nice clean bike! Congratulations.


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## ButchB (Sep 3, 2012)

*I own the exact same bike!*

I bought the exact same type of Univega roadbike back in 1994 in New Hampshire. I believe originally I paid roughly $500.00 for it and it is still in like new condition. Although I've owned and ride the bike quite a bit, I've never stayed abreast of specific language. After joining and reading the posts here I have a few questions: 

What is meant by carbon tubed and aluminum lugged? Also, I have never changed any of the components on the bike which are all original (Shimano). I've also read that the stem can be elevated. What is the adjustment for that and, on this type of frame, could the head and the fork be replaced with a different type of component to make the bike somewhat lighter? Also, what would be a recommended better seat for the bike? 

Thanks for any help that can be offered. 

Butch 


Dave Hickey said:


> As I mentioned above there is nothing wrong with Sora.....New Sora shifters vs early 90's 600 shifters of unknown mileage and care.......I'd take new Sora....
> 
> Remember when you read forums like RBR, we tend to be snobs....It's the same in photography forums and audio forums.....There is high end and there is perfectly acceptable for the vast majority of people... there isn't a minimally acceptable road group.
> 
> ...


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

ButchB said:


> I bought the exact same type of Univega roadbike back in 1994 in New Hampshire. I believe originally I paid roughly $500.00 for it and it is still in like new condition. Although I've owned and ride the bike quite a bit, I've never stayed abreast of specific language. After joining and reading the posts here I have a few questions:
> 
> What is meant by carbon tubed and aluminum lugged? Also, I have never changed any of the components on the bike which are all original (Shimano). I've also read that the stem can be elevated. What is the adjustment for that and, on this type of frame, could the head and the fork be replaced with a different type of component to make the bike somewhat lighter? Also, what would be a recommended better seat for the bike?
> 
> ...


Carbon tube/ alu lugs just means that the tubes forming the triangle(s) - top tube, down tube, seat tube... are bonded to aluminum lugs (that intersect those tubes)

Quill stems can be raised by loosening the center bolt (at the top) and tapping it to drop the internal wedge that holds it in place, freeing it. On older bikes that haven't been maintained it's common for the stem to 'freeze' in place. A couple of drops of oil/ lube at the point where the stem enters the headset may help, but if you're unsure of how to do this bring the bike to your LBS.

Re: upgrades to headset/ fork, both are possible, but I'd weigh the benefits with the cost before doing so. If the headset is functional, I'd consider overhauling it (disassembling/ cleaning/ relubing). 

1" threaded CF forks are available, but if you were going to do that upgrade, I'd consider also upgrading to a threadless fork and change over to a more current stem/ spacer setup. But honestly, on a bike like yours, I'd only do one for one (like) replacements as is necessary and consider a new bike if you want more current technology. Nothing at all wrong with what you now have, though.


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