# No PED testing at Hincapie's Grand Fondue?!



## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

*Armstrong, former USPS riders to reunite this weekend at Gran Fondo Hincapie*
Read more at Armstrong, former USPS riders to reunite this weekend at Gran Fondo Hincapie - VeloNews.com



This weekend, at a gran fondo in Greenville, South Carolina, several members of the former U.S. Postal Service team will ride together again.

Four members of the USPS team that won the 1999 Tour de France — Lance Armstrong, George Hincapie, Christian Vande Velde, and Kevin Livingston — will reunite at the October 25 Gran Fondo Hincapie.

Former Postal/Discovery Channel team members Michael Barry and Tom Danielson will also be attending. Though initially listed as a participant, former USPS rider David Zabriskie has said he will not be able to make the trip.

Mixed with this group are several notable names from the younger generation of American racers, including Tejay van Garderen, Brent Bookwalter, and Larry Warbasse, all of BMC Racing, Hincapie’s last team as a professional.

American WorldTour riders Alex Howes (Garmin-Sharp) and Matthew Busche (Trek Factory Racing) are also participating.

Two years and two weeks after USADA’s Reasoned Decision rocked the foundation of American cycling, it’s a notable list of riders, past and present, who are attending — particularly four who testified about Armstrong’s drug use, and their own, in the USADA report.
...



I'm on the other side of the continent so I can't be bothered to show up. If I were there I would poach it, no problem. 

Would you?


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## 80turbota (Dec 3, 2011)

If I was capable of keeping up and in the area yes I would ride with them. No prizes, no money, just the glory of riding with some famous and infamous former pro riders.


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## Donn12 (Apr 10, 2012)

I road with Hincapie and his group at the best buddies century in DC last weekend. they set a fast but not crazy pace and I was able to hang with them until mile 60 or so. then on a windy uphill stretch they slowly pulled away. I was relieved ! I was also invited to do his Fondo but I looked it up - too much climbing and too much of a hassle to get there.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

For sure. Even if I couldn't keep up with them (which I couldn't, even in my wildest dreams) I would ride with them.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Poaching any ride shows a lack of class, but yes, it would be fun to ride with the "rat pack".
.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

USADA is now trying to figure out a way to prevent Armstrong from riding. Now they're starting to look simply petty. More evidence that there was a kind of personal vendetta against Armstrong.
His behaviour was of course beyond the pale, but two wrongs etc.
USADA is undermining its credibility.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

How long before we prohibit 'ol Lance from riding anything with pedals and 2 wheels?


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

thumper8888 said:


> USADA is now trying to figure out a way to prevent Armstrong from riding. Now they're starting to look simply petty. More evidence that there was a kind of personal vendetta against Armstrong.
> His behaviour was of course beyond the pale, but two wrongs etc.
> USADA is undermining its credibility.


Wouldn't it undermine USADA's credibility more to knowingly allow a banned rider to participate in a sanctioned event? USADA isn't "trying to figure out a way;" they're applying the rules as written and as they are required to do.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

That's not what most rational people -- except a lawyer being paid to say otherwise -- would call a sanctioned event, and no one would view it as such for purposes of determining USADA's credibility. USADA is hunting hard for a technicality to allow it to call the fondo "sanctioned." We all know that.

If USADA pulls this off somehow, and I were George Hincapie I would sever the rather minor link to USA cycling that the event has. It doesn't need all this BS.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

thumper8888 said:


> That's not what most rational people -- except a lawyer being paid to say otherwise -- would call a sanctioned event, and no one would view it as such for purposes of determining USADA's credibility. USADA is hunting hard for a technicality to allow it to call the fondo "sanctioned." We all know that.
> 
> If USADA pulls this off somehow, and I were George Hincapie I would sever the rather minor link to USA cycling that the event has. It doesn't need all this BS.


usa cycling permit number 2014-2821 makes it a sanctioned event.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

thumper8888 said:


> USADA is now trying to figure out a way to prevent Armstrong from riding. Now they're starting to look simply petty. More evidence that there was a kind of personal vendetta against Armstrong.
> His behaviour was of course beyond the pale, but two wrongs etc.
> USADA is undermining its credibility.


Do you have a link? I was under the impression that gran fondos were not sanctioned events.


Edit:
Forget it i just saw Den Bakker's post


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

den bakker said:


> usa cycling permit number 2014-2821 makes it a sanctioned event.


Maybe that means its "sanctioned" and maybe it doesn't. USADA wasn't able to flatly say that it did, and US cycling hasnt said so yet either. If it were as clear as you imply, USADA would have said simply he can't enter it.

As Bloomberg says, the fondo, as a non-competitive event, isn't required to be sanctioned though US cycling, and Hincapie got a permit for insurance purposes only, like a gazzillion other charity and "fun" events.

This is a solution in search of a technicality.


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

The hammer may come down on Lance, but not the rest:

USADA, USA Cycling conferring over Armstrong ban at Hincapie fondo - VeloNews.com



> Four former members of Armstrong’s U.S Postal Service and Discovery Channel team who testified to USADA about drug use within the team will be participating — George Hincapie, Christian Vande Velde, Michael Barry and Tom Danielson.
> 
> Former USPS riders Kevin Livingston and Dylan Casey are also participating.
> 
> Read more at USADA, USA Cycling conferring over Armstrong ban at Hincapie fondo - VeloNews.com


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

paredown said:


> The hammer may come down on Lance, but not the rest:
> 
> USADA, USA Cycling conferring over Armstrong ban at Hincapie fondo - VeloNews.com


why would it?


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## n2deep (Mar 23, 2014)

The USADA should back the F#@& off.. IMHO, they singeled out Lance and have decided to ride him like a dirty shirt. Sure Lance was a bad guy and did the deed. However, the man is paying the penalty and this is not a "Sanctioned Race", so are they pissed because everyone thinks the USADA is a bunch of looseers?


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## road addict (Sep 23, 2005)

He should ride after all what are they going to do send the police out to arrest him for riding a bike. I seem to remember Danilo Di Luca riding a fondo in Miami about a year ago and he also has a life time ban.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

USA Cycling confirms Armstrong not permitted to ride Saturday?s Gran Fondo Hincapie | CyclingTips


Not permitted. He should poach it. 





From the other news story:

_Andreu said that she was concerned that Armstrong was planning to ride the event while serving a lifetime ban. She also pointed out that he would be riding alongside many current professionals. Those scheduled to take part include BMC Racing Team’s GC leader Tejay van Garderen, his team-mates Larry Warbasse and Brent Bookwalter, Alex Howes (Garmin-Sharp), Matthew Busche (Trek Factory Racing) plus several riders from the Hincapie Development Team.
...
“I think it sends out the wrong signal, it shows that doping pays. Is it any wonder that people are very sceptical about the sport when someone with a lifetime ban still thinks the rules don’t apply?” Andreu told CyclingTips, then added wryly, “it’s too bad Michele Ferrari and Johan [Bruyneel] won’t be there since they were such an integral part of the success enjoyed by the old timers.”_

She's not a hater at all 

Did USADA even raise this issue? And let's keep things in perspective. 

It's a gran fondo. A charity event. Is anyone concerned that some of the pros riding may not have USAC licenses? 






road addict said:


> He should ride after all what are they going to do send the police out to arrest him for riding a bike. I seem to remember Danilo Di Luca riding a fondo in Miami about a year ago and he also has a life time ban.


Agreed. Armstrong should just poach it.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

*Armstrong has hurt us enough.*

Perhaps Armstrong should be banned from riding bikes. Period.


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

I'm trying to figure out what the responses on this post would read if the story was after the fact and had a headline like this: "USADA and USA Cycling allowed Lance Armstrong to ride in a sanctioned event despite his lifetime ban!"

They likely don't care whether he rides in the fondo or not, but they certainly don't want stories that would impact their credibility.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

jspharmd said:


> I'm trying to figure out what the responses on this post would read if the story was after the fact and had a headline like this: "USADA and USA Cycling allowed Lance Armstrong to ride in a sanctioned event despite his lifetime ban!"
> 
> They likely don't care whether he rides in the fondo or not, but they certainly don't want stories that would impact their credibility.



I think backing it out and looking at it this way is a useful exercise, a good way to think through the plusses and minsues etc. But I have to maintain that it's still not at all clear that the even was sanctioned in the way people normally think of the meaning of that word.
It's a fondo, not a race for people holding amateur or pro licenses.
Can USADA come to the fondo and dope test the participants? No. Can they come to their homes and test them "out of competition"?
No. So why should any penalty related to doping violations apply to the event?


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

thumper8888 said:


> Can USADA come to the fondo and dope test the participants? No.


So you really have no idea of the policies and regulations that are in force, do you?
Drug testing for Gran Fondo New York


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

asgelle said:


> So you really have no idea of the policies and regulations that are in force, do you?
> Drug testing for Gran Fondo New York


You need to read that story and some others on the topic more carefully. Because of the hefty prizes ($100,000 worth) and to preserve the reputation of the event, the organizers of Gran Fondo New York decided to bring in the USADA testing themselves, and pay for it -- $17,000 according to one story.
You agreed to be tested when you signed up, and some who signed up were even tested out of competition.
Also, in the link you posted, the story indicates that ANY riders who have ever been banned, like Ullrich, can't enter, even if they have served out their time. This is obviously a unique set of rules. I mean, otherwise George and several others couldn't ride and Levi couldnt ride in his own event etc.
Here is from a 2012 story on this: "According to the organisers, it is the first time that doping controls will be in place for this style of event in the US. In addition to out of competition tests, there will also be samples taken on the day of Gran Fondo New York."

Even the mighty US government can't make someone submit to a drug test just out of the blue, let alone USADA. You have to explicitly give your permission. For most of us, that's done when we apply for our racing license each year.
They can test me in or out of competition and I will cheerfully pee in the cup. But grabbing someone unlicensed off a random fondo who did not explicitly sign an agreement to be tested?
No, not possible. Think about it, what would the penalty be, taking away a license that doesn't exist?
Banning you from more fondos where there is no one to enforce?
NY fondo is a different beast, more of a race than a fondo, in some ways.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

thumper8888 said:


> someone unlicensed off a random fondo


Since it's a USAC event, do the participants need USAC licenses? 


jspharmd said:


> USADA and USA Cycling [...] certainly don't want stories that would impact their credibility.


The only people in the US who have any respect for USADA and USAC's credibility are USADA and USAC.


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## Jwiffle (Mar 18, 2005)

And if Armstrong shows up and rides, what will USADA do? Make his lifetime ban an eternal ban? And if he shows up next year?

Really, what can they do? They can keep him from entering (or at least earning results) in a sanctioned race.

So even though this fondo is sanctioned, what could they possibly do to Lance if he shows up? I've never been to a fondo on closed roads, so I'm assuming the hincapie fondo isn't, either.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

The only reason that it's a USAC event is that stupid George decided to insure the ride with USAC. .......No USAC, no problem.

This is a Non-licensed ride......In other words....a "Fred" ride.
.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> The only reason that it's a USAC event is that stupid George decided to insure the ride with USAC. .......No USAC, no problem.
> 
> This is a Non-licensed ride......In other words....a "Fred" ride.
> .


Well, Hincapie was a great road captain, but obviously not a rocket scientist...

In any case, I think that USASA/USAC is going way to far here. Just let the guy ride with his friends. He's still a great draw in cycling. Demonizing him even further is petty and disrespecting allot a Freds (who buy allot of bikes). I got back on the bike in part because of LA and I'm not alone. I don't have any problem with them keeping him out of races - but this is just demented.


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## n2deep (Mar 23, 2014)

jspharmd said:


> They likely don't care whether he rides in the fondo or not, but they certainly don't want stories that would impact their credibility.


What credibility,, to be perfectly honest they were part of the problem, not part of the soultion. They banned Lance for life to protect themselves not for the good of the sport!!!


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

n2deep said:


> What credibility,, to be perfectly honest they were part of the problem, not part of the soultion. *They banned Lance for life to protect themselves* not for the good of the sport!!!


Thanks for making my point for me.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

jspharmd said:


> Thanks for making my point for me.


Are we still talking about USADA saving face? 

I think you asked an interesting question:


jspharmd said:


> I'm trying to figure out what the responses on this post would read if the story was after the fact and had a headline like this: "USADA and USA Cycling allowed Lance Armstrong to ride in a sanctioned event despite his lifetime ban!"


If that happened, USADA could say that Armstrong slipped through while they were still determining whether he could ride and explain that part of the issue is that it is a charitable noncompetitive event, with no prize money or license requirements. It will not happen again. 

Then they could end with a parting shot similar to what started this thread. 

"If you plan on doping be prepared to spend the rest of your career doing charity rides," 
or 
"We only hope that Lance Armstrong was capable of finishing the charity ride without having to take any performance enhancing drugs."


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I think he should only be allowed to ride Gran Fondos on uber dorky scooters* that sound like a weed whacker. If we're going to make stupid rules, at least be funny. 

*Dibs on someone getting angry because their mother used to ride a scooter and me being insensitive about their past.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

So if there was no media attention on Lance joining Hincapie on his gran fondo, would USADA even know about this? How does USA Cycling know who is riding in it or not if there is no requirement to have a license?

This once again makes USADA look like they have a personal vendetta against Lance to Joe Public as most will not know the rules and sees gran fondos as non competitive fun rides. I think they were better off to make a public statement stating that although they could stop him, they view this gran fondo as a charity ride and the most important thing is to help raise funds.


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## Rokh On (Oct 30, 2011)

Exactly ... no press coverage no one cares. It would be interesting to see who initiated all the crap. Not mentioned here yet but Hincapie has also alleged they got a "green light" for Lance to participate.

"Hincapie says Armstrong had prior authorization to ride fondo from ‘governing body’"

Of course the media went straight to USA Cycling and they said it wasn't them. I'm surprised they didn't say "it must have been Shawn Farrell and we didn't know"


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## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

I'm gonna put it out there like this...
If Lance doesn't ride, I don't ride, simple as that.


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

upstateSC-rider said:


> I'm gonna put it out there like this...
> If Lance doesn't ride, I don't ride, simple as that.


Good for you.. Keeping lance from a gran fondo of all things is redonk


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## markg (Sep 18, 2005)

Interestingly, Hincapie rode the event when he was serving his (brief) suspension in 2012. It was USAC-sanctioned that year as well.


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## Rokh On (Oct 30, 2011)

upstateSC-rider said:


> I'm gonna put it out there like this...
> If Lance doesn't ride, I don't ride, simple as that.


You weren't planning on attending the event? Of course George could be just covering is bases by saying Lance won't be riding. Then it's all on Lance if he does ride.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

markg said:


> Interestingly, Hincapie rode the event when he was serving his (brief) suspension in 2012. It was USAC-sanctioned that year as well.


No way!
The Earth didn't move out of it's orbit back then.............or did it????

Round up the usual suspects.
.


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

Lance should fock off and pursue another sport. Dirt bagging is up his alley, his kids must be really proud of him.. Prick did the crime and shat on dozens of people and now wants the soft penises in the peanut gallery to play the sympathy card for him. He had 13 years to make good. Lifetime is too long, how about 13 years from 2013? Hincapie is another turd that should just f off as well. Legends of the sport? He is a repeat cheat. Pete Rose must be walking around with a permanent WTF on his face after reading about the USA cycling cheat fan boys saying forgive and forget.


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

AJL said:


> . I don't have any problem with them keeping him out of races - but this is just demented.


You think LA is doing this for shits and giggles? He's after a payday. Should he really be allowed to profit from his cheating days? Races or Freds. He built his reputation on a fraud, no reason to keep rewarding the fraudster. Would you have bought the bike if you knew he was a cheater?


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

No worries all you Lance haters, you can now relax knowing the USADA is there to do whatever it can to stop him:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>USADA has exchange during the night lance's right leg with left arm to be sure he cannot ride George's Grand Fondo. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/godblessamerica?src=hash">#godblessamerica</a></p>— Antoine VAYER (@festinaboy) <a href="https://twitter.com/festinaboy/status/525920895068798976">October 25, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

He's showing up purely to work the victim angle for the benefit of his legion of apologist fanboys. It's a calculated pr move, like everything he does in public.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Fireform said:


> He's showing up purely to work the victim angle for the benefit of his legion of apologist fanboys. It's a calculated pr move, like everything he does in public.


And the USADA is doing it's best to make sure it "appears" that they are doing a witch. Works into Lance's "victim" scheme pretty good doesn't it (if that is indeed Lance's purpose of being there and not just to be with a friend to help out a charity event)?


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## OldChipper (May 15, 2011)

love4himies said:


> And the USADA is doing it's best to make sure it "appears" that they are doing a witch. Works into Lance's "victim" scheme pretty good doesn't it (if that is indeed Lance's purpose of being there and not just to be with a friend to help out a charity event)?


This. Either way you cut it, they should have just ignored it. 

For those who want to cast Lance as a Machiavelli-on-steroids  this was a pretty damn clever move. If they let him ride, he could say: "See they don't even follow their own rules." If they don't, it plays into his status as the victim of a witch-hunt. Chapeau.


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## n2deep (Mar 23, 2014)

Fireform said:


> He's showing up purely to work the victim angle for the benefit of his legion of apologist fanboys. It's a calculated pr move, like everything he does in public.


What ever the reason,, wouldn't it be sweet to have all of the big names ride in a couple of non competitive events a year, older and newer. Most sports have events where all of the big names show up like the pro-ams/golf and you don't see them throwing trash or trying to kick each other in the balls like a bunch of 6 year olds. I think we need events like this to grow the sport and we desperately need cycling to grow or to even flourish in the USA.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

I feel kind of  about this. I'm not a Lance apologist by any means but I also don't believe that Lance being a cheater deserving of the punishment he has received and there being a witch-hunt to get him are necessarily mutually exclusive. This does seem ridiculous to me. I know that "rules are rules" but this whole thing had an air of "looking through the rules to find a way to make sure that it is against the rules for him to ride." 

I live close to Greenville and George has been a good local citizen here and has been an active, positive, and well-liked member of the community. I have nothing against his event.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

n2deep said:


> What ever the reason,, wouldn't it be sweet to have all of the big names ride in a couple of non competitive events a year, older and newer. Most sports have events where all of the big names show up like the pro-ams/golf and you don't see them throwing trash or trying to kick each other in the balls like a bunch of 6 year olds. I think we need events like this to grow the sport and we desperately need cycling to grow or to even flourish in the USA.


There are countless big events to benefit worthy causes all across the country every year that are not sanctioned by usacycling. He and his pals could choose to do an MS ride, RAGBRAI, 24 hours of Booty, the list is endless. Any of those would be seen in just the light you're suggesting, but that's not what he's after. That would require him to give a rat's ass about anyone besides himself. Instead, he signs up for sanctioned events so he can remind us all what a victim he is.

Screw him.


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

Fireform said:


> There are countless big events to benefit worthy causes all across the country every year that are not sanctioned by usacycling. He and his pals could choose to do an MS ride, RAGBRAI, 24 hours of Booty, the list is endless. Any of those would be seen in just the light you're suggesting, but that's not what he's after. That would require him to give a rat's ass about anyone besides himself. Instead, he signs up for sanctioned events so he can remind us all what a victim he is.
> 
> Screw him.


That's one way to look at it... I'm sure Hincapie asked him though


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## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

Fireform said:


> There are countless big events to benefit worthy causes all across the country every year that are not sanctioned by usacycling. He and his pals could choose to do an MS ride, RAGBRAI, 24 hours of Booty, the list is endless. Any of those would be seen in just the light you're suggesting, but that's not what he's after. That would require him to give a rat's ass about anyone besides himself. Instead, he signs up for sanctioned events so he can remind us all what a victim he is.
> 
> Screw him.


But how many of those are sponsored by domestiques who rode with him all 7 Tours that he won*.
This is the one where he can go, "Dude, we're getting the band back together!".

There was also a cancer awareness event downtown he was supposed to speak at but haven't heard if USA Cycling interfered with that too.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

upstateSC-rider said:


> But how many of those are sponsored by domestiques who rode with him all 7 Tours that he won*.
> This is the one where he can go, "Dude, we're getting the band back together!".


maybe they should poach the ride instead and then harass anyone pointing it out. being about bringing the band back together and all.


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

Do all the various rides have USADA permits. I mean rides such as centuries and other Fondo's. Or is this one sanctioned by the USADA because it was planned to be sanctioned by the ride organizers.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

BikeLayne said:


> Do all the various rides have USADA permits. I mean rides such as centuries and other Fondo's. Or is this one sanctioned by the USADA because it was planned to be sanctioned by the ride organizers.


Centuries are virtually never sanctioned events, and most fondos aren't either. The Gran Fondo Italia in Miami next month isn't. Charity rides like the MS 150s and various cancer, wounded vet, heart disease etc rides are non sanctioned. He had to choose his event with care to get the publicity he wanted.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

So you think it was Armstrong's plan to have USADA and USAC weigh in and prevent him from riding? 

Weird. 

Did Armstrong also plan for Betsy Andreu to complain about Armstrong riding?


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## Jackhammer (Sep 23, 2014)

Ah, tell LA they'll let him ride if he pays a $mil to USADA. The thief had no problem taking huge appearance fees based on his phony celebrity. Poor Lance can't ride his bicycle.. ;-[


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

thechriswebb said:


> I live close to Greenville and George has been a good local citizen here and has been an active, positive, and well-liked member of the community. I have nothing against his event.


How do you feel about fraud and cheats in general, cheats in cycling in particular? Should they be able to cash in on it?


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

thechriswebb said:


> I live close to Greenville and George has been a good local citizen here and has been an active, positive, and well-liked member of the community. I have nothing against his event.


cf. Dutch Schultz


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

thumper8888 said:


> USADA is now trying to figure out a way to prevent Armstrong from riding. Now they're starting to look simply petty. More evidence that there was a kind of personal vendetta against Armstrong.
> His behaviour was of course beyond the pale, but two wrongs etc.
> USADA is undermining its credibility.


This, of course, is nonsense

Tyler Hamilton was prevented from racing unsanction races during his ban
Hamilton quits Boulder race series after UCI, USAC threaten action - VeloNews.com

Valverde was not allowed to participate in Movistar events during his ban
UCI scuttles Tuesday's Valverde presentation - VeloNews.com

JTL was told to stop coaching during his ban
Tiernan-Locke hits back at UCI President Brian Cookson over suspension | Cyclingnews.com

Ángel Vázquez was yanked from a race 30km from the finish by agents from Spain’s Guardia Civil
Read more at Police yank ex-doper out of Spain's largest gran fondo - VeloNews.com
Police yank ex-doper out of Spain's largest gran fondo - VeloNews.com 

Of course when the same is applied to Lance it is called a witch hunt


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

Fireform said:


> Centuries are virtually never sanctioned events, and most fondos aren't either. The Gran Fondo Italia in Miami next month isn't. Charity rides like the MS 150s and various cancer, wounded vet, heart disease etc rides are non sanctioned. He had to choose his event with care to get the publicity he wanted.


 Thanks


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## macca33 (Oct 24, 2012)

kiwisimon said:


> Lance should fock off and pursue another sport. Dirt bagging is up his alley, his kids must be really proud of him.. Prick did the crime and shat on dozens of people and now wants the soft penises in the peanut gallery to play the sympathy card for him. He had 13 years to make good. Lifetime is too long, how about 13 years from 2013? Hincapie is another turd that should just f off as well. Legends of the sport? He is a repeat cheat. Pete Rose must be walking around with a permanent WTF on his face after reading about the USA cycling cheat fan boys saying forgive and forget.



Yup - hit the nail on the head mate.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

kiwisimon said:


> You think LA is doing this for shits and giggles? He's after a payday. Should he really be allowed to profit from his cheating days? Races or Freds. He built his reputation on a fraud, no reason to keep rewarding the fraudster. Would you have bought the bike if you knew he was a cheater?


There is no payday involved. The event doesnt even generate the kind of money for its total bottom line that it takes to turn his head. He's helping a buddy who helps with his ride. back scratching. Hincapie is one of his oldest and strongest friends.
I understand why Armstrong generates this sort of cynicism, but it's not accurate in this case.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Yeah, he really helped out ol' George. Great job, Lance.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

None of your examples are even faintly pertinent.
Hamilton could have raced in that event (and it was a race not a fondo). Nothing prevented it. The penalties would have accrued not to him, not to the event, but to the other UCI racers entered. The "logic" used to smack Hamilton in this case was that UCI riders can't compete in unsanctioned competition, same BS they used last year on mountain bike stuff.
The organizers, wanting to keep the UCI riders in, asked him if he would please not ride.
Again, this was COMPETITION and a different rule was brought into play, that against riding in unsanctioned competions.
Even if they tried that rule, which they didn't, Hincapie Fondo is listed as a fun ride, not a competition.

Coaching in competition is, well, coaching. In competition. Participating in the sport of UCI sanctioned bike racing.
A fondo like Hincapies is, again, not a competition, and is not under UCI etc.

The spanish fondo? The organizers apparently told that doper not to come back after he won it previous year and then he snuck in by lottery and was trying to win again when the FONDO ORGANIZERS had him yanked out. Not a national federation or UCI.
This had nothing do do with UCI, USADA, due process etc. A private organization can set whatever rules it wants for its own events, and they barred him, then enforced it.
Hincapie fondo could set similar rules against dopers. Clearly it doesn't. It could even bar anyone who doesn't own tropical fish, or who rides compact cranks.





Doctor Falsetti said:


> This, of course, is nonsense
> 
> Tyler Hamilton was prevented from racing unsanction races during his ban
> Hamilton quits Boulder race series after UCI, USAC threaten action - VeloNews.com
> ...


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Fireform said:


> Yeah, he really helped out ol' George. Great job, Lance.


It got publicity, didn't it? Free publicity is always good.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Local Hero said:


> USA Cycling confirms Armstrong not permitted to ride Saturday?s Gran Fondo Hincapie | CyclingTips
> 
> 
> Not permitted. He should poach it.
> ...


I may have missed it, but do you have the link to the article that has Betsy's quote? Just trying to get her whole meaning (not the reporters tell the whole story ). But it seems a bit hypocritical seeing as her hubby was a doper and was able to continue in the sport. Unless she only means during a ban, and then it's quite ok to continue after the ban/confession.


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## OldChipper (May 15, 2011)

kiwisimon said:


> Lance should fock off and pursue another sport. Dirt bagging is up his alley, his kids must be really proud of him.. Prick did the crime and shat on dozens of people and now wants the soft penises in the peanut gallery to play the sympathy card for him. He had 13 years to make good. Lifetime is too long, how about 13 years from 2013? Hincapie is another turd that should just f off as well. Legends of the sport? He is a repeat cheat. Pete Rose must be walking around with a permanent WTF on his face after reading about the USA cycling cheat fan boys saying forgive and forget.


Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, your opinion man.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

thumper8888 said:


> None of your examples are even faintly pertinent.
> .


More nonsense. 

Banned riders are not allowed to participate in sanctioned events. Hincapie's Gran Fondo is a sanctioned event. Lance was not allowed to ride. Not a witch hunt, just the rule. 

Almost all GrandFondo and Sportifs are sanctioned as well. Ricco slipped into a GF in Italy a couple years ago and was stopped by the police. Where were you then? Why no "Witch Hunt" Cry? Did you complain when Valverde couldn't go to his party or JTL was not allowed to coach Sportif riders? When Jan Ullrich used a fake name to ride GrandFondos did you complain? 

You can babble all you want about "Competition" but we both know it means nothing. the UCI, USADA, USAC, and WADA are all clear he is not allowed to ride. Not because of some witch hunt.

Before you post more nonsense read this

USA Cycling confirms Armstrong not permitted to ride Saturday?s Gran Fondo Hincapie | CyclingTips


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

thumper8888 said:


> A fondo like Hincapies is, again, not a competition, and is not under UCI etc.


"The World Anti-Doping Agency’s Code says a banned athlete can’t compete in an authorized competition or activity in “any capacity” during a period of ineligibility. "
Is the ride authorized by USAC now it's registred under them? 
"10B3.
By entering the event, the participant agrees to respect the regulations of the UCI, USA Cycling, and the particular regulations of the event"
remind me again on UCIs rules concerning riders with life time bans and participation?


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

thumper8888 said:


> A fondo like Hincapies is, again, not a competition, and is not under UCI etc.


The sanction as defined in the WADA code (see section 10.10.1) bans participation in any event by a club or body affiliated with a signatory to the WADA code, be it a bike race or a BBQ. The only exceptions are anti-doping education and rehabilitation events that have been pre-approved by relevant peak bodies.

The event was organised by a club affiliated with USAC, and as such it automatically falls under the WADA code.

His ban for any cycling event involving a WADA signatory club or organisation is for life.

However he may participate in non-national/international level events in other sports after 4 years from date of ban taking effect, e.g. a local triathlon.

If he breaches his ban, then the ban time frame resets to the date of the infraction.

If an organisation knowingly facilitates him to breach a ban, then the organisation can be subject to sanction and fines as per the WADA code and the sport's administrative body.

Those are the rules that were in force for many years before he faced any sanction and are simply a consequence of his previous actions that resulted in a life ban.


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## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

Oh well, it's all water under the bridge now.
I didn't do the ride because Lance wasn't there, not because I'm too cheap to pay to ride roads I can ride everyday.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)




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## the_rouleur (May 3, 2014)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> More nonsense.
> 
> Banned riders are not allowed to participate in sanctioned events. Hincapie's Gran Fondo is a sanctioned event. Lance was not allowed to ride. Not a witch hunt, just the rule.


I'm not sure if this has been covered or not, but didn't George start his own Gran Fondo when he was serving his ban? If so then that is the most relevant comparison.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

Local Hero said:


>


Harder to assess precise rules in this case. The organiser, MIG, is not an affiliate of British Cycling and so it's technically a private event outside of WADA jurisdiction, even though BC do advertise the event.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Yeah, good thing they were not testing at that greenfondue. That guy in the middle, #884, looks a little too muscular.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

the_rouleur said:


> I'm not sure if this has been covered or not, but didn't George start his own Gran Fondo when he was serving his ban? If so then that is the most relevant comparison.


One rider breaching the rules doesn't automatically grant everyone else the right to do so. However George's ban should have been reset as a result of the breach.


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## Rokh On (Oct 30, 2011)

Fireform said:


> Centuries are virtually never sanctioned events, and most fondos aren't either. The Gran Fondo Italia in Miami next month isn't.


True but also in a few weeks, right across the state, a "A family-friendly, non-competitive multi-distance bike ride. Choose from routes of 15, 30, 62 or 100 miles." is a sanctioned ride. "Ride held under USA Cycling event permit."

Could be some events just do it for insurance purposes and nothing to do with publicity, payday, or whatever.


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## the_rouleur (May 3, 2014)

Alex_Simmons/RST said:


> One rider breaching the rules doesn't automatically grant everyone else the right to do so. However George's ban should have been reset as a result of the breach.


George didn't breach, he requested permission and was granted it.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

the_rouleur said:


> George didn't breach, he requested permission and was granted it.


Do you have a link? Not saying it did not happen but I remember there was some question at the time if George would be able to ride. I know Tommy D got in trouble for doing events during his sanction.


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