# Gearing for Mt. Washington Hill Climb



## paulg (May 21, 2002)

Next year I am thinking of doing the Mt. Washington Hill Climb. My current set up is a triple front (52/42/30) and 12/25 rear. I have read that a low of 1:1 is recommended with even lower than that for "bail out" gears. With my set-up, the lowest is 1.2:1.

I feel I am a fairly decent climber - the only time I've used the 30 in front was for going up the aqueduct hill adjacent to Walden Pond, Concord, MA (maybe some of you know it). It's about 1/2 mile and its steepest section is 22 - 24% and I was able to do it in the 30/19. I do realize that Mt. W is much longer, very sustained and with possibility of high wind.

If I did want to set up my bike with 1:1 or lower, what would be the easiest way to do it? Can I fit an MTB cassette in the rear without changing the derailleur? (Shimano Ultegra)? Is it possible to replace the 30 in front with a smaller chainring - a 25 or 24? Or should I just train for it and try it with what I'm currently set up with and avoid all the extra hassle?

Thanks in advance for any input/suggestions.

Paul.


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## LC (Jan 28, 2004)

I would probably just get a 12-27 since your RD is limited to 27 max. With your 30T chainring, the 27 cog it is close enough to 1:1 that you should be fine if you have been training on steep hills.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*what a pro used...*

This year's winner had a 29/23 low gear. Considering that a pro can put out a whole lot more power than us amateurs, considerably lower gears may be in order.

It's really impossible to predict what you might need, since climbing a mountain is NOTHING like climbing hills. 

When I rode only hills, I never needed anything lower than a 39/21. I'd stand on the really steep hills. Now I use a 53/39/28 with a 12-25 in the Colorado mountains. The 28/25 was low enough to handle Mt Evans, which is a much longer climb, but not as steep. If I was facing grades of 22% or more, I'd be sure they were short enough to ride standing and if not, I'd gear down to a 28/27 or 28/29 just to be safe. There's generally a 2-3 cog difference between standing and seated climbing. 

I'd also ditch the 42 and go with a 53/39/28. You can get FSA chainrings at good prices from www.aebike.com.


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## theOldMan (Mar 25, 2004)

paulg said:


> Next year I am thinking of doing the Mt. Washington Hill Climb. My current set up is a triple front (52/42/30) and 12/25 rear. I have read that a low of 1:1 is recommended with even lower than that for "bail out" gears. With my set-up, the lowest is 1.2:1.
> 
> I feel I am a fairly decent climber - the only time I've used the 30 in front was for going up the aqueduct hill adjacent to Walden Pond, Concord, MA (maybe some of you know it). It's about 1/2 mile and its steepest section is 22 - 24% and I was able to do it in the 30/19. I do realize that Mt. W is much longer, very sustained and with possibility of high wind.
> 
> ...


Paul, 

I am also planning to do the Mt. Washington hill climb next summer. I have talked to people that have done it and people that have won their category. They all say the same thing, you need nothing less than a 1:1. 

A common theme is to mount a Shimano XT or similar rear der. with a mountail bike type cassette. Some people also mount a mountain bike crankset. In other words, road bike set up with mountain bike gearing. They say it works...

You might want to read the hill climb forum. This question comes up a lot. It can be found at http://www.tinmtn.org/hillclimb/index.cfm 

good luck


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## rufus (Feb 3, 2004)

the local shop here, the Red Jersey, says that they put a lot of mountain cranks on road bikes for the locals who are riding it. i think he said they also only mount the 22 chainring. that's the only one you're going to be in. 

i'd assume they also put on the mountain derailleur and cassette.


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## pitt83 (Apr 1, 2003)

*Least dramatic / expensive fix*



paulg said:


> Next year I am thinking of doing the Mt. Washington Hill Climb. My current set up is a triple front (52/42/30) and 12/25 rear. I have read that a low of 1:1 is recommended with even lower than that for "bail out" gears. With my set-up, the lowest is 1.2:1.
> 
> I feel I am a fairly decent climber - the only time I've used the 30 in front was for going up the aqueduct hill adjacent to Walden Pond, Concord, MA (maybe some of you know it). It's about 1/2 mile and its steepest section is 22 - 24% and I was able to do it in the 30/19. I do realize that Mt. W is much longer, very sustained and with possibility of high wind.
> 
> ...


3X veteran. You must change that gearing as you'll not survive with a 30t. Full stop.

Cambriabike sells a 24t w/ 74mm BCD chain ring. Replace your 30t with that. I also use the 12-27 casette from my cross bike. I generally sit in the 24-25 combo, stand in the 24-21 and bail out for sections in the 24-27. I'm a masher and an average cyclist at best. Whatever you do: TEST THE BIKE BEFORE RACE DAY!!! Don't change the bike 1 week before and ride it only on Mt Washington. A sure recipie for disaster.

Also, ride Mt Ascutney before hand. It's 1/2 the length and in sections, steeper. None of the climbs you think are steep compare with the sheer length of Washington. Wachusetts is close, but you really need real mountinan experience (at least 1X) to show you humility.

This gearing will allow you to actually ride the bike for a while before race day as you'll still have the 53 and 42 on the crankset and a casette with useable gearing for regular roads.

Have fun. It's a very cool race unlike any other.


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## paulg (May 21, 2002)

*the plan so far..*



pitt83 said:


> 3X veteran. You must change that gearing as you'll not survive with a 30t. Full stop.
> 
> Cambriabike sells a 24t w/ 74mm BCD chain ring. Replace your 30t with that. I also use the 12-27 casette from my cross bike. I generally sit in the 24-25 combo, stand in the 24-21 and bail out for sections in the 24-27. I'm a masher and an average cyclist at best. Whatever you do: TEST THE BIKE BEFORE RACE DAY!!! Don't change the bike 1 week before and ride it only on Mt Washington. A sure recipie for disaster.
> 
> ...


I've done Wachusett this season and last season and rode it in my 42/25 as lowest. Never went to the 30T. But I understand that Mt. Washington is in a different league. 

Based on what I've read so far, it sounds like the best set-up without too much modification would be to go with the 12/27 rear cassette and the 24T inner ring up front. I will probably do this change over the winter months. With this combination, will there be slack in the chain that needs to be removed by subtracting links? My guess is that the larger cogs in the rear should offset the smaller one up front so I don't have to shorten the chain.

Thank you for the suggestions and helpful links. 

Paul.


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## LC (Jan 28, 2004)

paulg said:


> I've done Wachusett this season and last season and rode it in my 42/25 as lowest. Never went to the 30T. But I understand that Mt. Washington is in a different league.
> 
> Based on what I've read so far, it sounds like the best set-up without too much modification would be to go with the 12/27 rear cassette and the 24T inner ring up front. I will probably do this change over the winter months. With this combination, will there be slack in the chain that needs to be removed by subtracting links? My guess is that the larger cogs in the rear should offset the smaller one up front so I don't have to shorten the chain.
> 
> ...


You will be exceding the max combined teeth range of the ultegra triple RD so you will probally have to live with only using the small ring with the two largest cogs of your cassette.


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## willco99 (Jun 17, 2004)

*my best setup from 2 timer...*

First piece of advice...you will use the lowest gear you put on the bike so don't go too low!

My first attempt I put a triple crank on a road bike with a 12-25 cassette. The 22/25 was too low. I spun well but was too slow. Finishing time: 1:37.

Second attempt I used a normal 53/39 with an 11-32 cassette and a XTR rear derraileur . The 39/32 was perfect! Low enough not to burn out but high enough to maintain a good tempo. Finishing time: 1:14.

It is a lot of pain and agony, but the crowd at the top makes it all worth it! Have fun.


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## paulg (May 21, 2002)

*Interesting*



willco99 said:


> First piece of advice...you will use the lowest gear you put on the bike so don't go too low!
> 
> My first attempt I put a triple crank on a road bike with a 12-25 cassette. The 22/25 was too low. I spun well but was too slow. Finishing time: 1:37.
> 
> ...


Congrats on your time! I'd be ecstatic to equal it. Hopefully my attitude will help too. I tend to welcome the challenge of climbs vs. dread them. Perhaps one's mindset can help with this ride as well.

Based on your gearing, a 30/25 is about an equivalent ratio (my current set up). Perhaps for added margin I could just swap out and put a 12/27 on. Someone had already suggested that above. That would give a low of 1.11. 

I agree with the concern about gearing too low..in spite of all the advice from other posters. I would raise the question about putting a 27 up front. Would that exceed the limit of my RD? At least then I'd have a 1:1 which the majority seems to advocate.

I really don't think the pitches on this climb would get me based on what i've mentioned above. However, the pitches combined with big wind raises some doubt. Were you still able to push the 39/32 in heavy wind on this hill?

Forgive my waffling on this, but I just want to make the best decision. I realize that with some practice hill climbs next season, I will have a better idea of my capabilities. 

Thanks,
Paul.


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## kfurrow (May 1, 2004)

paulg said:


> I've done Wachusett this season and last season and rode it in my 42/25 as lowest. Never went to the 30T. But I understand that Mt. Washington is in a different league.


Ummmm, yeah, Wachusett and Washington don't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence. I did Washington twice -- during training I was doing laps on Wachusett (Rt. 140 to the top) using a 42x21 as the low. I'd do most of it in 42x19 or 42x17.

You absolutely _must _get your gearing under 1:1. I did it by simply plopping a 11-32 MTB cassette on the rear -- an Ultegra derailleur can handle that, but not very quietly.

If I did it again, I'd plop a 12-27 on the back, and drop the granny ring up front to the smallest your crank can take. I think a 22 or a 24 can fit. That'll give you two or three gears right around 1:1 for your "normal cruising", and one major bailout gear should you be confronted with 50mph headwinds as you're going up a 15% grade.


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## paulg (May 21, 2002)

*question for you*



pitt83 said:


> 3X veteran. You must change that gearing as you'll not survive with a 30t. Full stop.
> 
> Cambriabike sells a 24t w/ 74mm BCD chain ring. Replace your 30t with that. I also use the 12-27 casette from my cross bike. I generally sit in the 24-25 combo, stand in the 24-21 and bail out for sections in the 24-27. I'm a masher and an average cyclist at best. Whatever you do: TEST THE BIKE BEFORE RACE DAY!!! Don't change the bike 1 week before and ride it only on Mt Washington. A sure recipie for disaster.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your input. Did you have to make any derailleur changes along with the cassette/chainring changes? I currently am using an Ultegra triple set-up. 

Thanks again,
Paul.


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## pitt83 (Apr 1, 2003)

*That's the beauty of this*



paulg said:


> Thank you for your input. Did you have to make any derailleur changes along with the cassette/chainring changes? I currently am using an Ultegra triple set-up.
> 
> Thanks again,
> Paul.


Almost zero changes. I needed to adjust cable tension and tweak the b screw to get the cage spools out of the way of the chain. Chain length is fine going from a 30t inner and an 11-23 rear. Took all of 5 minutes. I too have ultegra triple RD, FD and cranks.

IMHO: You'll see lots of configurations. Mine is about the simplest conversion from standard road components to hillclimb equipment possible.

Some professs that an Ultegra long cage triple RD can handle an 11-32 cassette. I haven't and don't feel the need to try as the 12-27 serves me well.


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## paulg (May 21, 2002)

*What about the RD?*



pitt83 said:


> Almost zero changes. I needed to adjust cable tension and tweak the b screw to get the cage spools out of the way of the chain. Chain length is fine going from a 30t inner and an 11-23 rear. Took all of 5 minutes. I too have ultegra triple RD, FD and cranks.
> 
> IMHO: You'll see lots of configurations. Mine is about the simplest conversion from standard road components to hillclimb equipment possible.
> 
> Some professs that an Ultegra long cage triple RD can handle an 11-32 cassette. I haven't and don't feel the need to try as the 12-27 serves me well.


I have ordered the 12/27 cassette and two inner chain rings - the 24 and 26T (74BCD). That way I can play around and experiment. However, it seems that although my bike is set up as a triple, the original bike, when stock was a double. The LBS converted it, but it looks like they kept the double RD. Could this be possible with 52/42/30 and 12/25 stock?

Seems as if the combined front and rear gear teeth drop below a total of 42 (30 + 12, or if I change to the 24, 24 + 15) the pulleys will rub the chain. Now it seems I would have to change the RD. Otherwise I would be limited to 24 front with 27, 24, 21,and 19 rear. With the 26 I would have one more gear: 26 front with 27, 24, 21, 19, and 17. 

If I won't be needing any higher than those ratios, then perhaps just leave the existing RD? OOr, would it be better to swap in the triple RD? How much trouble is it to do this?

Thanks,
Paul.


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## bdc88 (Apr 14, 2006)

What about doing compact 50/34 on the front and picking up an 11/32 for the rear adn the XTR rear derailluer as others have mentioned. 

I run Sram so you can replace the top pulley on the Sram RD with a 10t and use an 11/32 on the rear. I also run an FSA crank set with a removeable spider which allow me to run a 32t carbon spiderless chainring up front. This combo allows me the 1:1 for climbing and a very light set up. No front derailluer, no derailleur hanger, Sram Force front shifter gutted with no shifter paddle. My Red rear derailleur is 122g the cranks are lighter, chain is lighter and the shifter is lighter. There are other options out there for you.


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## savechief (Apr 16, 2009)

bdc88 said:


> What about doing compact 50/34 on the front and picking up an 11/32 for the rear adn the XTR rear derailluer as others have mentioned.
> 
> I run Sram so you can replace the top pulley on the Sram RD with a 10t and use an 11/32 on the rear. I also run an FSA crank set with a removeable spider which allow me to run a 32t carbon spiderless chainring up front. This combo allows me the 1:1 for climbing and a very light set up. No front derailluer, no derailleur hanger, Sram Force front shifter gutted with no shifter paddle. My Red rear derailleur is 122g the cranks are lighter, chain is lighter and the shifter is lighter. There are other options out there for you.


I'm pretty sure he figured it out 7 years ago.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Mt. Wachusett is cake with a 34 ring and 28 cog for a 60 year old guy. HTFU


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

I haven't been to Mt Washington in some years. Is it all paved yet?


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## farva (Jun 24, 2005)

sorry for the hijack, but just curious if there is any way to do this ride without doing the race proper? I've been chipping away at the top 100 road climbs in the US & I've pretty much done all the Western US & Hawaii rides so I've got this one & some other East coast rides left to do. Not really interested in puke pace to the top on my heavy steel ritchey breakaway. The fee/lottery is expensive too. Could I just show up & ride it on "practice day"?


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

farva said:


> sorry for the hijack, but just curious if there is any way to do this ride without doing the race proper? I've been chipping away at the top 100 road climbs in the US & I've pretty much done all the Western US & Hawaii rides so I've got this one & some other East coast rides left to do. Not really interested in puke pace to the top on my heavy steel ritchey breakaway. The fee/lottery is expensive too. Could I just show up & ride it on "practice day"?


No. Not without signing up and paying.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

```

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Jay Strongbow said:


> No. Not without signing up and paying.


Well, you can go through the booth by car (with a bike in the back). Then get out of the car and ride up to the top. (maybe a friend can keep driving the car and meet you at the top). I bet you won't get caught. Even if you do get caught, what's the fine going to be? Probably worth the experience.


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