# Which Lykskey?



## jeepsouth (Nov 28, 2011)

57 year old male, 200 lbs., 6'. I ride 25-40 miles at a time, and try for a 50+ miler every two weeks or so. I get in around 125 a week during the months with longer daylight hours. This drops considerably during the darker months due to my work schedule.
Which Lynskey do I want?
I ride on paved roads and avoid riding in wet conditions. I currently ride a Cannondale SuperSix Evo (size 56), so I don't mind the stiffness, but would not mind a bit more upright position. I've ridden a few "plush" bikes, but they just feel "mushy" to me, perhaps due to my being used to the feel of the C'dale. Excessive weight is an issue since I live in a very hilly area, so I want something on the light side, especially in the wheelset. I run 23c tires now and I like them. May try 25c, but not interested in anything wider since I don't ride on gravel; strictly paved roads. No panniers, fenders, mud guards, etc. I will not be racing, but our group does do a few sprints and fast segments, as most groups do. As I mentioned, this is a very hilly area (Greenville, SC), so please take that into consideration. 
My current bike has SRAM Red and I like it and am used to the SRAM feel. I would like SRAM Force or better, and would consider Shimano Ultegra or better. Not willing to spend the extra $$ for electronic shifting (I am familiar with it; my wife has it on her CAAD10). Compact gearing in front and maybe 12-32 in the rear.
Budget is $4000, absolute tops....$3500 would be better. Which Lynskey should I be considering? What is the approx weight of the bike you're suggesting?
Thanks.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

Call them and discuss. I was interested in a Silver series when they first started shipping. A call to them and subsequent conversation was that @ 210 lb and my riding habits/style [whatever] I would be well served with the upper end. And I do think it was because they want to sell more expensive frames per say. I felt the discussion was productive, honest, and I got the right information. I would be surprised if you don't feel similarly coming away from a consult with them.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Not sure if you found a Lynskey yet, but price wise the Sport model R140 is the same bike as my Silver Series Peloton and is a fantastic deal. The geometry is not a pure racing geometry so it's a tad more laid back and slightly more upright position which provides a degree of more comfort. Also the bike's frame is built to handle up to a 28mm tire which very few road bikes will do, most are tight with just 25's. I think this bike is about 98% of what the more expensive Lynskey bikes are, so you have to judge for yourself if spending a lot more money is worth the extra 2% or so gain. This bike is on sale for $2399 with Shimano 105

If you haven't bought your bike yet consider going through Adrenalin Bikes, see: Adrenaline Bikes Because if you get the R140 a couple of minor cost changes can make a big difference in how it feels, and Adrenalin can do that but Lynskey direct cannot, you simply pay the difference. For example, I changed the 105 rear derailleur to Ultegra for only $36 more, and the standard level Shimano cables to Dura Ace 9000 for just $20 more. I also did some other changes to beef up the headset from the rather low end FSA to Cane Creek 110 which cost about $70 extra, and the fork to a Enve 2.0 for about $175 more. The wheelset at the time was Shimano RS500 (105) now it's Vision Team 25 which I know nothing about, but Shimano offered the RS series in black or silver, for some reason the silver had a deeper dish to it than the black so I got the silver for no extra charge. At Adrenalin you can swap out the wheels for whatever wheel set you like, you just pay the difference. I also opted for SpeedPlay Frogs with Stainless steel spindle because I like to ride to other towns and lakes etc and walk around. I made my changes because once I got the bike I wasn't going to be making any changes for a long time, so better price wise to do it at order time. The only option I considered that I didn't do was to go with the Ultegra crankset, not sure if my decision not to was a good one or not, time will tell.

Matthew at Adrenalin was also very knowledgeable and helpful, and he agreed with my choices, he advised the cables, the headset (because I initially wanted Cane Creek); and the Silver RS Shimano rims because they were a bit more stout and would hold up better to street pounding, so far he's been right about the wheels, I haven't had to true them in 2 seasons. He agreed about the Enve 2.0 because it was the stoutest of the forks by any manufacture, and the rear derailleur because it was built a bit better than the 105 for crisper shifting.


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## veloci1 (Nov 29, 2005)

would not the Helix be clser to what jeepsouth is looking for?

i went from a 2013 Evo HM to a 2014 Synapse HM and i did not give up anything in the BB stiffness or handling. but, the position is much more realaxed.

Synapse was a no brainer. i know you are looking for ti, but, i just thought i should give you my experience.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

For less than $3500 you can get a really nice Lynskey R140 which if you get it from Adrenalin Bikes you can upgrade like I did and come in at about $2,800 and then spend a bit more up to your budget limit and get nicer wheels. Remember that if you buy direct from Lynskey they can't do upgrades. Another thought is to go with the stock wheels for everyday riding and get a set of Flo 60's for a bit faster wheel if you'll be riding with a group of faster riders.


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## jeepsouth (Nov 28, 2011)

Good suggestions all, and I appreciate all of the advice.

Right now, I'm leaning toward the Helix. I appreciate all of the advice about wheels, tires, etc. I'm leaning toward having just one set of good every-day wheels. I can get the Boyd's here in Greenville (the Swamp Rabbit Trail goes right by their front door) and am leaning toward their Altamonts. Still thinking about tire sizes, but have had very good luck with the Mich Pro 4 Service Course in size 23. I may try a 25, but I don't see myself going beyond that based on the type of riding I do and the roads on which I ride.

But, just recently a shop opened here which carries Litespeed Ti bikes. He doesn't have one in my size currently, but should have one to demo soon. Any suggestions or info on the Litespeed bikes would be helpful. I've visited their website and checked out the warranty, but would appreciate some advice from those really familiar with the bikes. Lynskey, too.

Thanks.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

jeepsouth said:


> Good suggestions all, and I appreciate all of the advice.
> 
> Right now, I'm leaning toward the Helix. I appreciate all of the advice about wheels, tires, etc. I'm leaning toward having just one set of good every-day wheels. I can get the Boyd's here in Greenville (the Swamp Rabbit Trail goes right by their front door) and am leaning toward their Altamonts. Still thinking about tire sizes, but have had very good luck with the Mich Pro 4 Service Course in size 23. I may try a 25, but I don't see myself going beyond that based on the type of riding I do and the roads on which I ride.
> 
> ...


Fantastic. My answer was based on your top absolute budget of $4,000 with a hope of around $3,500, a fully equipped Helix is $1,500 to $2,000 over that "absolute" budget. Great to hear you've increased your budget significantly, it's a great bike that you'll enjoy for years.


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## jeepsouth (Nov 28, 2011)

froze said:


> Fantastic. My answer was based on your top absolute budget of $4,000 with a hope of around $3,500, a fully equipped Helix is $1,500 to $2,000 over that "absolute" budget. Great to hear you've increased your budget significantly, it's a great bike that you'll enjoy for years.



Yes....budgets have a way of ballooning, don't they? Thanks for your earlier suggestion.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

jeepsouth said:


> Yes....budgets have a way of ballooning, don't they? Thanks for your earlier suggestion.


LOL, yes they do, but I kept to mine when I got my Lynskey. In fact I did something odd, I took what I paid for my bike in 1984 and added inflation and spent that amount which bought me the Peloton (now the R140) with upgrades I mentioned previously. I'm sure you'll love your new bike, but be careful of that twisted frame, I heard that people who exceeded 200 mph ended up corkscrewing through the air.


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## adjtogo (Nov 18, 2006)

I'm not familiar with the geometry of the Cannondale bike you have, or if that's the same type of geometry you're trying to stay with in buying a Lynskey.

What I can say is that I owned a Bianchi Infinito and a Giant Defy Advanced 1, which both developed cracked frames or parts. I made up my mind to buy a Lynskey, but had no idea what model to choose. I made numerous calls to Lynskey and talked to Don Irwin and Mike Lunsford. I spent numerous times chatting with them online. I took into consideration, not only my budget, but my medical problems with degenerated discs in both my neck and lower back. I knew I couldn't buy a bike with an aggressive geometry. I mulled over a period of time which model to buy. I watched Youtubes Don had made comparing one model to another.

I was at a crossroads between an R230 and an R255. Both models had features I liked, but I settled on a 2014 R255. It has a similar relaxed geometry to an Infinito. The R230 had a little more aggressive riding position, and I thought that would be a problem with my neck and back. I also had a budget of $4K or less. Luckily, when I decided to buy, it was during a "Black Friday and Christmas Sale", where they were offering low cost financing, or 30%-35% off the total cost of the bike, not just the frame.

I decided to get the Ultegra 6800 groupset, Enve 2.0 front fork, Cane Creek Headset, and Mavic Kysirium wheelset. It all came in for just at $3200 after tax and shipping. I ended up paying cash, so I got the 35% discount.

The bike was delivered by the end of January, 2014. It simply is the smoothest and most comfortable road bike I ever had. There's a huge difference and sound between the way it rides compared to a CF bike. I don't get any thud or weird sounds riding over a bump like I did with a CF bike. 

As I said, my R255 is a 2014 model. They've done some very minor modifications with the 2015 model. The rear chainstays now have a slight curvature to add more comfort when riding. Mine are traditionally straight.

Here's something you guys may not know. Lynskey offers 50% off the frame only if you are an active member of the Armed Forces or a veteran. I am. I served 11 years in the Army. They would only offer one discount though. For me, it was cheaper in the long run to buy the complete bike at 35% off than just the frame and buying parts elsewhere to build the bike on my own.

So, there you have it. Call Don or Mike and tell them what you're looking for.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

^^ Nice write up. Mike's a good guy, he referred me to Matthew, another good guy, at Adrenalin Bikes when I went to order mine because of the changes I wanted to make.


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## jeepsouth (Nov 28, 2011)

adjtogo said:


> I'm not familiar with the geometry of the Cannondale bike you have, or if that's the same type of geometry you're trying to stay with in buying a Lynskey.
> 
> What I can say is that I owned a Bianchi Infinito and a Giant Defy Advanced 1, which both developed cracked frames or parts. I made up my mind to buy a Lynskey, but had no idea what model to choose. I made numerous calls to Lynskey and talked to Don Irwin and Mike Lunsford. I spent numerous times chatting with them online. I took into consideration, not only my budget, but my medical problems with degenerated discs in both my neck and lower back. I knew I couldn't buy a bike with an aggressive geometry. I mulled over a period of time which model to buy. I watched Youtubes Don had made comparing one model to another.
> 
> ...



First, thanks for your service to the country.

Second, thanks for the great information. I have spoken with Don and the folks at Lynskey have been very helpful. But, as I mentioned above, a new LBS has started carrying Litespeed Ti bikes and I'm following that trail at present. I don't think this will lead me away from Lynskey, but I'm going to see where it goes. Would be great to be able to support the LBS.


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## adjtogo (Nov 18, 2006)

Just a few more thoughts. Litespeed isn't the company it once was when the Lynskey family owned it. Sure, the new company probably makes a good product, but it is not manufactured in the USA. I took that into consideration when I bought my Lynskey. I like the fact that it was hand crafted in Chattanooga, TN, with American workers.

If it doesn't matter to you where the frame is made, then you could consider the Litespeed, or even the Motobecane I provided a link to. Heck, for $3K with a full Shimano Dura Ace 11 speed drive train, you really can't go wrong. I, by no means, ever thought I'd recommend a Motobecane to anyone, but it even comes with Kysirium Elite wheelset.

Review: Motobecane Le Champion Team Ti | Road Bike News, Reviews, and Photos


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## jeepsouth (Nov 28, 2011)

adjtogo said:


> Just a few more thoughts. Litespeed isn't the company it once was when the Lynskey family owned it. Sure, the new company probably makes a good product, but it is not manufactured in the USA. I took that into consideration when I bought my Lynskey. I like the fact that it was hand crafted in Chattanooga, TN, with American workers.
> 
> If it doesn't matter to you where the frame is made, then you could consider the Litespeed, or even the Motobecane I provided a link to. Heck, for $3K with a full Shimano Dura Ace 11 speed drive train, you really can't go wrong. I, by no means, ever thought I'd recommend a Motobecane to anyone, but it even comes with Kysirium Elite wheelset.
> 
> Review: Motobecane Le Champion Team Ti | Road Bike News, Reviews, and Photos


Yeah, I also like the fact that Lynskey bikes are made here in the US. It is a definite selling point for me.

I was aware that BikesDirect had some Motobecane Ti bikes, but never even considered them. I figured they were mass-manufactured in China and would not have nearly the quality of the Lynskeys or even the Litespeeds. Is that an incorrect assumption? Are they quality bikes? 

Also, no need to go into all of the pluses and minuses of the BikesDirect buying experience. I have read the good and bad experiences on this site for a few years, so I'm just asking mainly about the quality of the Motobecane Ti bike. 

Thanks.


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## adjtogo (Nov 18, 2006)

From what I understand now, Litespeed is mass manufactured overseas too. There are very few companies in the good old USA that hand craft titanium bikes, and Litespeed is not one of them.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

adjtogo said:


> From what I understand now, Litespeed is mass manufactured overseas too. There are very few companies in the good old USA that hand craft titanium bikes, and Litespeed is not one of them.


Care to show us proof of Litespeed bikes not being made in America? I couldn't find any evidence of that on the internet, but maybe I wasn't searching correctly. Last I heard Litespeed still had a manufacturing plant in TN.

I do agree that Litespeed, now owned by ABG group, is no longer the company it once was when Lynskey owned it. AGB has raped the company and it's customers by giving lousy service and will not honor the warranty unless you get an attorney. 

If you want a Litespeed then what you really want is the Litespeed of the former glory days when Lynskey owned the company, thus what you really want is a true Lynskey, so buy a Lynskey and deal directly with the legend in American titanium manufacturing and not some large corporation that could care less about their customers. The legacy, reputation, tube shaping and bending, invention of stuff that is used in the titanium industry today, or the titanium shaped tubing that was used in the Mars Land Rover that Litespeed spews was all done by Lynskey, Litespeed today NEVER did any of that! Litespeed is stealing all the glory and thunder of Lynskey and laying claim to it which is false advertising because Lynskey did all of that when he started, owned, and ran Litespeed. Now if Litespeed today is willing to lie about them creating all the wiz bang stuff used in the titanium bike industry today and not give Lynskey the credit than what should that tell you about Litespeed?

By the way here is a review of the latest Motobecane TI bike: Review: Motobecane Le Champion Team Ti | Road Bike News, Reviews, and Photos


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## adjtogo (Nov 18, 2006)

> Care to show us proof of Litespeed bikes not being made in America?


I just sent an email directly to Litespeed and asked "where are your titanium bikes built"?

I've been told by an LBS owner that the main company HQ is in Chattanooga, TN, but all of their bikes, including the CF ones, are built in Asia.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

adjtogo said:


> I just sent an email directly to Litespeed and asked "where are your titanium bikes built"?
> 
> I've been told by an LBS owner that the main company HQ is in Chattanooga, TN, but all of their bikes, including the CF ones, are built in Asia.


Again, I've found no proof of that, in fact all I can find is that they claim they're all built in America...more Litespeed lies? probably, but without proof all we have is hearsay. I would strongly suspect the CF bikes to be made in Asia but not the TI bikes. Lets see what Litespeed says.

By the way in this search on this subject I did find out that Quintana Roo which is a Litespeed brand are ALL made in Asia, but those bikes are not the top of the line as compared to Litespeed.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

adjtogo said:


> I just sent an email directly to Litespeed and asked "where are your titanium bikes built"?
> 
> I've been told by an LBS owner that the main company HQ is in Chattanooga, TN, but all of their bikes, including the CF ones, are built in Asia.


They claim on their website, that their titanium bikes are made in the U.S. Look at the individual models.

"Handmade in the USA using T7 technology"

When ABG bought Litespeed, I assume they bought more than just the name. They also got the shop/factory that Lynskey was manufacturing bikes in. Since Lynskey signed a do not compete agreement with them for a number of years, the guys Lynskey employed probably stayed on and kept welding bike frames. I'd bet some or most of them are still there today. As far as the CF bikes go, only a few manufacturers make CF bikes in the U.S. 99% of them are stamped out in one of a few Chinese factories. 

The Bikes Direct titanium frame is manufactured by a reputable outfit in Taiwan. 

My wife just got a Dura Ace equipped R350 and likes it quite a bit. I'm not crazy about the BB30 or the integrated headset. I'm still riding my 1999 Ultimate. I completely stripped it down, polished it, put on new decals and all new components, fork, wheels. Its like a new bike again.


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## adjtogo (Nov 18, 2006)

As a follow up to the email I sent Litespeed, I still haven't received a response. I bet if I sent an email to Lynskey, I would have received a response the same day.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

adjtogo said:


> As a follow up to the email I sent Litespeed, I still haven't received a response. I bet if I sent an email to Lynskey, I would have received a response the same day.


Lynskey has great customer service, they sent me a new set of decals and a display headbadge for free when I asked to buy another set because one of the letters got damaged in shipping. I mounted the headbadge on a piece of cherry wood that's now used as a paper weight on my desk.


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## Scar (Sep 13, 2014)

I'm sure Litespeed titanium frames are still made in Chattanooga. In fact, Litespeed has a current full page ad campaign going in some bike magazines which shows a Litespeed welder (or model, who knows) telling you he makes Litespeed TI frames in Tennessee. There are a couple of different versions that I have seen, with different welders or models.

Like most everyone else Litespeed makes, or did make, its carbon frames in Asia.


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## Scar (Sep 13, 2014)

pmf said:


> When ABG bought Litespeed, I assume they bought more than just the name. They also got the shop/factory that Lynskey was manufacturing bikes in. Since Lynskey signed a do not compete agreement with them for a number of years, *the guys Lynskey employed probably stayed on and kept welding bike frames. I'd bet some or most of them are still there today*.



When I visited the Lynskey shop in the summer of 2007 they were just gearing up big time for the TI market under their own Lynskey name. They were receiving a lot of favorable attention in the cycling media. At that time, David Lynskey told me that the first five welders he had hired when his family started Litespeed had jumped ship and come to work with him at Lynskey. 

As I recall, when the ABG group bought Litespeed not only did the Lynskey family have to sign a no compete agreement for so many years but that Mark Lynskey also had to stay on as the head of Litespeed for a specified period of time. After those times expired Mark left Litespeed and the Lynskey family started producing Ti frames again in Chattanooga under the family name.

I have been told by a former Litespeed and current Lynskey dealer that there is very bad blood between the Lynskeys and ABG/Litespeed.


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## jeepsouth (Nov 28, 2011)

Ok. Someone suggested I look into the Motobecane Ti with DuraAce. I've done the research and the reviews are great, the price is half that of the Lynskey or Litespeed (or less), the warranty is lifetime, etc., etc., etc. So....what's the catch?

I'm not asking about CF Motobecane bikes; their Ti bikes only.


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## adjtogo (Nov 18, 2006)

jeepsouth said:


> Ok. Someone suggested I look into the Motobecane Ti with DuraAce. I've done the research and the reviews are great, the price is half that of the Lynskey or Litespeed (or less), the warranty is lifetime, etc., etc., etc. So....what's the catch?
> 
> I'm not asking about CF Motobecane bikes; their Ti bikes only.


I don't know anything about their Ti bikes other than they're all made overseas by foreign workers. From what I've read from others, you're much better off to have the bike sent to you completely un-assembled. Once you get it, inspect the parts and make sure they didn't provide you with cheap parts rather than quality parts. I've heard some others say they got cheap axels, or cheap screws and such. For $3K, it seems to be a good price with full DA.


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## adjtogo (Nov 18, 2006)

Scar said:


> I'm sure Litespeed titanium frames are still made in Chattanooga. In fact, Litespeed has a current full page ad campaign going in some bike magazines which shows a Litespeed welder (or model, who knows) telling you he makes Litespeed TI frames in Tennessee. There are a couple of different versions that I have seen, with different welders or models.
> 
> Like most everyone else Litespeed makes, or did make, its carbon frames in Asia.


I never heard back from the email I sent Litespeed. I placed a call yesterday and I got their voice mail after I had to press a certain number to reach the sales department. No return call was made. So, I decided to do a "dealer search" and found a shop 2 1/2 hours away that deals with Litespeed. I asked if the Ti frames are made in the USA, and he told me "yes, in Chattanooga". I asked if he had any in stock, and he said "no", which is understandable. So, I wouldn't doubt if the "no compete clause" is now up, and I can certainly understand if the Lynskey family is upset. 

There's a few things that strike my mind:

1. Litespeed doesn't provide good customer service. If they did, they would have emailed back and returned my call.

2. If you ever have a warranty issue, I'd have to question if they would even be available and honor the warranty.


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## jeepsouth (Nov 28, 2011)

adjtogo said:


> I never heard back from the email I sent Litespeed. I placed a call yesterday and I got their voice mail after I had to press a certain number to reach the sales department. No return call was made. So, I decided to do a "dealer search" and found a shop 2 1/2 hours away that deals with Litespeed. I asked if the Ti frames are made in the USA, and he told me "yes, in Chattanooga". I asked if he had any in stock, and he said "no", which is understandable. So, I wouldn't doubt if the "no compete clause" is now up, and I can certainly understand if the Lynskey family is upset.
> 
> There's a few things that strike my mind:
> 
> ...


Good information. Thanks.

If I did go with Litespeed (not my first choice at this point - though not ruled completely out) it would be through a local shop with a good rep. This is not my regular shop and they are relatively new, but they seem to be gaining a great reputation locally. So, in dealing with a trusted local shop (assume this for the moment), wouldn't they be dealing with Litespeed on warranty issues? Or is that not how it works?

At any rate, I'm still leaning toward the Lynskey Helix, though the Motobecane has gotten my attention lately.....just not sure of that entire situation with BD, etc.


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## Scar (Sep 13, 2014)

adjtogo said:


> *So, I wouldn't doubt if the "no compete clause" is now up, and I can certainly understand if the Lynskey family is upset. *
> 
> There's a few things that strike my mind:
> 
> ...


The no-compete clause was over in 2007 when I was at the Lynskey shop. They were actively competing again and Mark Lynskey had left Litespeed and joined David and the rest of the family in starting up the Lynskey. 

I bought my Litespeed Tuscany in August 2003 (they said it was their 2004 model) and at that time was available as a frame only. I think Mark was still running Litespeed as they were very responsive to my dealer and I stood beside him while he talked to a sales person at the factory. The dealer had sold, and was selling, a ton of Litespeeds at that time and was very pleased with Litespeed as a company. This same dealer dropped them a few years later after Mark Lynskey left Litespeed. 

Fast forward to two years ago this dealer tried to contact Litespeed about a crash related repair to a Litespeed. A combined 10 attempts via phone calls and emails yielded only a single one sentence reply that someone would get back to him. But they never did. As other posters have said, Litespeed (management) is not the same company it used to be.

I'll bet the Ti craftsmen at Litespeed still build an excellent frame that anyone would be pleased to own. But I think ABG management has ruined the Litespeed name with a lot of dealers and riders.


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## Scar (Sep 13, 2014)

adjtogo said:


> I never heard back from the email I sent Litespeed. I placed a call yesterday and I got their voice mail after I had to press a certain number to reach the sales department. No return call was made. So, I decided to do a "dealer search" and found a shop 2 1/2 hours away that deals with Litespeed. I asked if the Ti frames are made in the USA, and he told me "yes, in Chattanooga". I asked if he had any in stock, and he said "no", which is understandable. *So, I wouldn't doubt if the "no compete clause" is now up, and I can certainly understand if the Lynskey family is upset. *
> 
> There's a few things that strike my mind:
> 
> ...


The no-compete clause was over in 2007 when I was at the Lynskey shop. They were actively competing again and Mark Lynskey had left Litespeed and joined David and the rest of the family in starting up the Lynskey. 

I bought my Litespeed Tuscany in August 2003 (they said it was their 2004 model) and at that time was available as a frame only. I think Mark was still running Litespeed as they were very responsive to my dealer and I stood beside him while he talked to a sales person at the factory. The dealer had sold, and was selling, a ton of Litespeeds at that time and was very pleased with Litespeed as a company. This same dealer dropped them a few years later after Mark Lynskey left Litespeed. 

Fast forward to two years ago this dealer tried to contact Litespeed about a crash related repair to a Litespeed. A combined 10 attempts via phone calls and emails yielded only a single one sentence reply that someone would get back to him. But they never did. As other posters have said, Litespeed (management) is not the same company it used to be.

I'll bet the Ti craftsmen at Litespeed still build an excellent frame that anyone would be pleased to own. But I think ABG management has ruined the Litespeed name with a lot of dealers.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

jeepsouth said:


> Ok. Someone suggested I look into the Motobecane Ti with DuraAce. I've done the research and the reviews are great, the price is half that of the Lynskey or Litespeed (or less), the warranty is lifetime, etc., etc., etc. So....what's the catch?
> 
> I'm not asking about CF Motobecane bikes; their Ti bikes only.


The only "cheap" parts I heard was the pedals, but those cheap $70 pedals will at least get you started, or buy a new pair that you like and sell those. Skewers maybe cheap but you can get better ones for not much money like Shimano Dura Ace 9000 for $50 range or go with Ultegra if mixing group up a bit doesn't bother you for just $32. They probably skimp on the chain, so what? you'll be replacing the chain anyway in 2 to 3 thousand miles! (my chains last longer but most peoples chains don't last as long as I can get mine to last) Maybe they skimp on the cables too, so what, you'll replace those every season or two regardless which cables you get. Cheap screws? good golly what a thing to complain about, you can get better screws when those fail for dollar! The headset is a low end headset, but I wouldn't worry about till it begins to wear out then get a nice headset like the Cane Creek 110. My only question is the fork, I don't know anything about the quality of the fork, I do know my friend has that same bike you want (4 years older) with I think is the same fork and he's had no issues, but after riding my bike he's ordered a new Enve 2.0 fork to put on his because he felt the Enve fork tracked better and handled better and I agree; but that fork is not cheap, I got a good deal on mine because I was able to apply the cost of the Lynskey carbon fork towards the cost of the Enve at the time of purchase, you can't do that so a new Enve fork will cost in the $400 range. Any expensive upgrades like the fork especially you can wait quite awhile if ever to do, as long as you don't have any issues with the way the fork feels I wouldn't bother.

So Bikes Direct does put some cheaper components on the bike but you're also not paying another $2,000 to get a TI bike made in America with Dura Ace components either! So you have to expect some corners were cut. All of the lower grade stuff can be replaced as they wear out, so I wouldn't get to excited about all of that "fear" stuff people try to propagate on others about Bikes Direct bikes. All bikes today regardless if mail order or at an LBS in that price range and less (and most above that price range) are going to be made by foreign workers so that's a moot point, but at least it's made in Taiwan and not China, Taiwan is much more sincere in the quality of their work vs China.

HOWEVER I do agree with Adjtogo, and I mentioned this earlier too, that you first put the bike together to save yourself the labor of having a shop do it, then take the bike down to a shop BEFORE you ride it and have the whole thing checked over, this where they'll check spoke tension, torque all the bolts, check the chain for stiff links and make sure it's aligned, adjust all the components, make sure there's grease in all the bearings like the bottom bracket and hubs. It would be worth the $60 or so for that to be done if you're not proficient to do it yourself. You could also at the time you're doing this bike checkup is to purchase new pedals I mentioned earlier, if you want, that will be higher quality, last longer, and be more to your liking.


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## waterlogged (Aug 29, 2009)

I have a Lynskey and my wife has a Motobecane Fantom Ti. I can't compare the ride quality but I would have no regrets buying another Motobecane if the geometry meets your needs. Nice welds and the complete bike costs less than a new Lynskey frame.


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## jeepsouth (Nov 28, 2011)

froze said:


> The only "cheap" parts I heard was the pedals, but those cheap $70 pedals will at least get you started, or buy a new pair that you like and sell those. Skewers maybe cheap but you can get better ones for not much money like Shimano Dura Ace 9000 for $50 range or go with Ultegra if mixing group up a bit doesn't bother you for just $32. They probably skimp on the chain, so what? you'll be replacing the chain anyway in 2 to 3 thousand miles! (my chains last longer but most peoples chains don't last as long as I can get mine to last) Maybe they skimp on the cables too, so what, you'll replace those every season or two regardless which cables you get. Cheap screws? good golly what a thing to complain about, you can get better screws when those fail for dollar! The headset is a low end headset, but I wouldn't worry about till it begins to wear out then get a nice headset like the Cane Creek 110. My only question is the fork, I don't know anything about the quality of the fork, I do know my friend has that same bike you want (4 years older) with I think is the same fork and he's had no issues, but after riding my bike he's ordered a new Enve 2.0 fork to put on his because he felt the Enve fork tracked better and handled better and I agree; but that fork is not cheap, I got a good deal on mine because I was able to apply the cost of the Lynskey carbon fork towards the cost of the Enve at the time of purchase, you can't do that so a new Enve fork will cost in the $400 range. Any expensive upgrades like the fork especially you can wait quite awhile if ever to do, as long as you don't have any issues with the way the fork feels I wouldn't bother.
> 
> So Bikes Direct does put some cheaper components on the bike but you're also not paying another $2,000 to get a TI bike made in America with Dura Ace components either! So you have to expect some corners were cut. All of the lower grade stuff can be replaced as they wear out, so I wouldn't get to excited about all of that "fear" stuff people try to propagate on others about Bikes Direct bikes. All bikes today regardless if mail order or at an LBS in that price range and less (and most above that price range) are going to be made by foreign workers so that's a moot point, but at least it's made in Taiwan and not China, Taiwan is much more sincere in the quality of their work vs China.
> 
> HOWEVER I do agree with Adjtogo, and I mentioned this earlier too, that you first put the bike together to save yourself the labor of having a shop do it, then take the bike down to a shop BEFORE you ride it and have the whole thing checked over, this where they'll check spoke tension, torque all the bolts, check the chain for stiff links and make sure it's aligned, adjust all the components, make sure there's grease in all the bearings like the bottom bracket and hubs. It would be worth the $60 or so for that to be done if you're not proficient to do it yourself. You could also at the time you're doing this bike checkup is to purchase new pedals I mentioned earlier, if you want, that will be higher quality, last longer, and be more to your liking.



Great response! Exactly the type info I wanted to hear.

Pedals? I'm going with Speedplays, which I've used for a while now and all of my shoes have those type of cleats on them. So, what comes with the bike doesn't concern me. 

I hear you on the chain, headset, cables, skewers, etc., and I agree that the thing to do is replace as the need arises. Sound advice all around.

As for the fork, I'm willing to try the stock one for a while, but may upgrade upon seeing what the stock one is like.

The best thing is that I will save enough on the Motobecane to make all of these upgrades and still have $$ left over versus the cost of a Litespeed or Lynsky. Seriously considering the Motobecane now.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

waterlogged said:


> I have a Lynskey and my wife has a Motobecane Fantom Ti. I can't compare the ride quality but I would have no regrets buying another Motobecane if the geometry meets your needs. Nice welds and the complete bike costs less than a new Lynskey frame.


Don't forget, Lynskey is an American company. All other things being equal That alone is worth the extra expense. 
My Lynskey is slowly moving to all American made parts where possible. 
Lynskey
Thomson
Paul
Chris King
Wound Up

Every piece is superb and I am proud to use it.


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## adjtogo (Nov 18, 2006)

tihsepa said:


> Don't forget, Lynskey is an American company. All other things being equal That alone is worth the extra expense.
> My Lynskey is slowly moving to all American made parts where possible.
> Lynskey
> Thomson
> ...


How can you get an "All American" made bike with groupsets such as Campy, Shimano, and SRAM being made overseas, as well as other parts, such as skewers, bolts, and such?


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## adjtogo (Nov 18, 2006)

I will just add that I ordered my Lynskey R255 at the right time, got the 35% off for the complete bike, and for paying cash during a Christmas sale. I paid just over $3K with shipping. Had it not been for the sale price, I don't know what I would have ended up with, as $3K was my limit.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

I had a 3k budget as well and ended up with the Peloton (with upgrades) from Adrenaline Bikes. I liked all the options I had for customizing. 

In my email exchanges with Don at Lynskey, I got the feeling he didn't really care about what I was looking for. He was there to sell me the bike he wanted to sell.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

adjtogo said:


> How can you get an "All American" made bike with groupsets such as Campy, Shimano, and SRAM being made overseas, as well as other parts, such as skewers, bolts, and such?


You cant but, you can do a lot. Shifting is Shimano. Brakes and skewers are Paul. Crank is White Industries. 
I am doing my part keeping jobs bere is the US. It makes me feel better and thats all thats important to me. I couldnt care less how it makes others think.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

adjtogo said:


> I will just add that I ordered my Lynskey R255 at the right time, got the 35% off for the complete bike, and for paying cash during a Christmas sale. I paid just over $3K with shipping. Had it not been for the sale price, I don't know what I would have ended up with, as $3K was my limit.


That 255 is a nice bike. I love mine.


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## jeepsouth (Nov 28, 2011)

How about this:



Litespeed T7, Ultegra build, Litespeed Carbon Fork, Vuelta Corsa Lite wheels......$2799.

Good deal?


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

adjtogo said:


> How can you get an "All American" made bike with groupsets such as Campy, Shimano, and SRAM being made overseas, as well as other parts, such as skewers, bolts, and such?


There are quite a few parts made in the US, problem is it will cost more. America makes some great brake calipers that are both lighter and stronger than the Campy, Shimano, SRAM stuff, there are also hubs, rims, and spokes made in the USA. Not to mention small parts. The only problem with doing that is will it raise the prices of Lynskey bikes too much to be competitive? However a lot of companies that went to Asia to have stuff built cheaper are having major second thoughts and some companies are already starting to bring production back to the US because they can control quality of the product far better, and dramatically reduce warranty issues. So Lynskey could be thinking along this line too to get a better quality product into the consumer hands.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

jeepsouth said:


> How about this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yes it's a good deal, but Litespeed since being bought out by ABG has had a notoriously poor record for customer service and warranty issues. 

However the Motobecane with all Ultegra is a better deal because it saves you $600 over the Litespeed; see: [url]http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/lechamp_slti_xiv.htm Or for just $200 more then the Litespeed you can get the Motobecane with all Dura Ace; see: Save Up to 60% OFf Shimano Dura Ace DA9000 Road Bikes | Titanium Road Bikes | Roadbikes - Motobecane Le Champion Team Ti

However if you're wanting an American made bike then expect to pay more, but I would get a Lynskey over a Litespeed due to all the complaints I've heard and the BS their posting on their website. Here is Lynskey best deal; see: https://www.lynskeyperformance.com/store/r140-with-shimano-105-5800.html
At Adrenalin Bikes they do have this Lynskey but they only have two sizes left so check your size; see: Adrenaline Bikes this bike with Ultegra is less then the Litespeed.


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## jeepsouth (Nov 28, 2011)

froze said:


> Yes it's a good deal, but Litespeed since being bought out by ABG has had a notoriously poor record for customer service and warranty issues.
> 
> However the Motobecane with all Ultegra is a better deal because it saves you $600 over the Litespeed; see: Save Up To 60% Off Shimano Ultegra Road Bikes | Titanium Road Bikes | Roadbikes - Motobecane Le Champion SL Ti Or for just $200 more then the Litespeed you can get the Motobecane with all Dura Ace; see: Save Up to 60% OFf Shimano Dura Ace DA9000 Road Bikes | Titanium Road Bikes | Roadbikes - Motobecane Le Champion Team Ti
> 
> ...


Thanks for your response. That is some good information.

While I did not initiate the "buy American" aspect of this thread, I do like to buy American products when I can. However, that is very hard to do, especially with bikes when just about all of the components and frames come from overseas. In any event, the "buy American" discussion should take place in another thread where we can all debate it to our hearts content. In my case, and for this purchase, let's assume it is not a consideration.


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## adjtogo (Nov 18, 2006)

Take your time and really think about:

1. Service after the sale. I've heard Motobecane has a history of putting on cheaper parts to cut corners and to save money. Sometimes, they make good on the problem, but there's no telephone support. It's email, and waiting for a reply. 

Lynskey, on the other hand, is very responsive, both with online chat, and by the phone. Don and Mike are A+ when it comes to customer service and service after the sale. I have not heard anything good about Litespeed directly.

2. Frame construction and durability. I know Lynskey goes through great lengths to ensure they have a "clean" product, and go through a lot of extra steps to make sure the titanium isn't contaminated. I don't know anything about Motobecane manufacturing of Ti bikes, but they are all made overseas, and I'd question the QC factor. The welds on my R255 are very smooth and extremely well done. I wonder if that's the case for Motobecane?

I know service after the sale and honoring the warranty and getting the warranty honored is very important. I can honestly say, I have not had one problem with the bike at all. I had it completely assembled at a LBS. They even offered free tune up for a year. Great bunch of guys there too!!


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## Scar (Sep 13, 2014)

adjtogo said:


> I never heard back from the email I sent Litespeed. I placed a call yesterday and I got their voice mail after I had to press a certain number to reach the sales department. No return call was made. So, I decided to do a "dealer search" and found a shop 2 1/2 hours away that deals with Litespeed. I asked if the Ti frames are made in the USA, and he told me "yes, in Chattanooga". I asked if he had any in stock, and he said "no", which is understandable. *So, I wouldn't doubt if the "no compete clause" is now up, and I can certainly understand if the Lynskey family is upset*.


The no-compete clause was over in 2007 when I was at the Lynskey shop. They were actively competing again and Mark Lynskey had left Litespeed and joined David and the rest of the family in starting up the Lynskey. 

I bought my Litespeed Tuscany in August 2003 (they said it was their 2004 model) and at that time was available as a frame only. I think Mark was still running Litespeed as they were very responsive to my dealer and I stood beside him while he talked to a sales person at the factory. The dealer had sold, and was selling, a ton of Litespeeds at that time and was very pleased with Litespeed as a company. This same dealer dropped them a few years later after Mark Lynskey left Litespeed. 

Fast forward to two years ago this dealer tried to contact Litespeed about a crash related repair to a Litespeed. A combined 10 attempts via phone calls and emails yielded only a single one sentence reply that someone would get back to him. But they never did. As other posters have said, Litespeed (management) is not the same company it used to be.

I'll bet the Ti craftsmen at Litespeed still build an excellent frame that anyone would be pleased to own. But I think ABG management has ruined the Litespeed name with a lot of dealers.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

I know our largest LBS use to sell Lightspeed but dropped them as well around 2003 or 2004 due to issues they ran into with ABG, so they went with Serotta instead and now they to are gone, so now the LBS doesn't have a high craftsmanship bike, just the usual fare of Trek, Breezer, and a few Specialized and Salsa bikes


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## jeepsouth (Nov 28, 2011)

Thanks for all of the info, especially about the customer service. That is disappointing to hear about Litespeed, but it looks like Lynskey has stepped in to fill the void.

I'm still looking and doing research. Adrenaline has a 2015 Sabbath Aspire which I can get built up with full Ultegra for just over $3400. Anyone know anything about Sabbath?


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

jeepsouth said:


> Thanks for all of the info, especially about the customer service. That is disappointing to hear about Litespeed, but it looks like Lynskey has stepped in to fill the void.
> 
> I'm still looking and doing research. Adrenaline has a 2015 Sabbath Aspire which I can get built up with full Ultegra for just over $3400. Anyone know anything about Sabbath?


You need to call Adrenaline and speak to Matthew about Sabbath or others you may be interested in. When I spoke to Matthew he told me that some of those brands of TI bikes come out of China, I can't recall if Sabbath is one of them, so call and find out.

Regardless you know that the Lynskey TI frame is made in America and that alone would be worth considering.


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## adjtogo (Nov 18, 2006)

froze said:


> You need to call Adrenaline and speak to Matthew about Sabbath or others you may be interested in. When I spoke to Matthew he told me that some of those brands of TI bikes come out of China, I can't recall if Sabbath is one of them, so call and find out.
> 
> Regardless you know that the Lynskey TI frame is made in America and that alone would be worth considering.


+1 on that!!!


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