# SPD Pedals on My Road Bike... Is It Sinful?



## PoorInRichfield (Nov 30, 2013)

I've been primarily a "roadie" for almost 30 years (yikes!) and ever since the LOOK pedal & cleat was invented, that style of pedal (i.e., LOOK-compatible) has been my pedal of choice on my road bikes. However, I opted for SPD-style pedals on my CX/gravel/trail bikes because I want to be able to walk when off the bike. 

On occasion, I do ride my CX/gravel/trail bike on the road, so that got my thinking... why don't I put SPD pedals on my road bike? Is it sinful? Over a 100 mile ride, what kind of penalty could I expect for putting SPD pedals on my road bike? 0.00002 seconds? (Some of you hard-core roadies have probably fainted already at the thought of SPD pedals on a road bike and for that I'm sorry. )

When comparing the two shoe/pedal combinations, about the only thing that I figure would make a real difference is that the SPD shoe+pedal combination is heavier than the Look shoe+pedal combination. The extra tread on the SPD-compatible shoe certainly adds to it's weight, not to mention the sole isn't carbon like my road shoes are. Perhaps there are light weight SPD shoes(?)

As for aerodynamics, the difference has to be negligible. Granted, I understand that for racers, ever bazillasecond counts, but I don't race, I just like to ride fast (and pretend that it matters how fast I go.)

Here is my SPD combination on my Trek Boone...









And here is my Look-compatible combination on my Trek Domane...









Have any of you hard-core roadies bucked-the-trend and put SPD pedals on your road bike? Do your friends still talk to you or do they just point and laugh?

(P.S. I know there are other brands and styles of pedals, like Speedplay, Time, Egg Beaters, etc.)


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

Z O M G *!!* unheard of *!*
Impossibru *!!*


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## Akirasho (Jan 27, 2004)

Been doing it for nearly 20 years.

Started on MTB but when I got my first "road bike", I found it economical and strategic,

Today, I still use SPD on MTB and recumbent, but most road are LOOK.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

Is it going to encourage you to ride more? If so, the answer is obvious.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

No it doesn't matter and it shouldn't matter what anyone thinks but you.

The only thing to maybe keep in mind is the fore aft position of the different cleats. Meaning, does one put your foot further ahead behind the other etc...


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

Some even run Flat pedals on their Road bikes!

Oh the Humanity !


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

PoorInRichfield said:


> Do your friends still talk to you or do they just point and laugh?


Not too much pointing and laughing, but they do fling poo at me.


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## PoorInRichfield (Nov 30, 2013)

> How to Dress PRO...
> *Shoes
> *
> _*Not PRO:*_ Thou shall refrain from wearing mountain bike shoes unless one is racing cyclocross in Belgium. Nothing will relegate one to the back of the pack quicker than wearing a set of mtb shoes on a bunch ride.
> ...


Clearly, SPDs on road bikes is a sin.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

If you ride by yourself, who cares. If you ride with two or three friends, Meh.....But, if you go on fast paced, hard group training rides, you're bound to get some flack....You're get "nice pedals", and "Do you plan to veer off the road"?...……
Do I????………..I'd rather be caught wearing my bib straps over my jersey. I still ride on Look Delta's with Black cleats.


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## PoorInRichfield (Nov 30, 2013)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> But, if you go on fast paced, hard group training rides, you're bound to get some flack....You're get "nice pedals", and "Do you plan to veer off the road"?...……


The best thing to do in this situation is to blow-the-doors-off of the riders using the traditional pedals


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## 1500SLR (Sep 30, 2018)

If you're running SPD instead of SPD-SL pedals then you have a problem.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Nothing wrong at all. Many road riders ride SPD pedals. They are a great all-around, do everything pedal. Nobody I know cares what you ride as long as you can keep up.

IMHO, if you are riding with people who care about what others are using, you should find different people to ride with.


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

Did this old topic really need a poll?


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

PoorInRichfield said:


> Clearly, SPDs on road bikes is a sin.


No, SPDs on a road bike is a sin for some *Road Cyclists*.

For *Cyclists*, who ride many different bikes and want one single style so they don't have to have multiple shoes and pedals, it is a practical choice.

Never forget that sin is religion specific.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> ..."nice pedals", and "Do you plan to veer off the road"?...……



"Thou shall judge cyclists not on their shoes, or kit, or bike, or age, or gender, but rather on the smoothness of their spin."


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## PoorInRichfield (Nov 30, 2013)

factory feel said:


> Did this old topic really need a poll?


It does. Do to the serious nature of this topic, the highly accurate results of this Internet poll will be submitted to the authorities (who ever they are) and swift action will be taken to rid the earth of roadies who maliciously put SPD pedals on their road bikes.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

factory feel said:


> Did this old topic really need a poll?


Do most topics posted even need a new thread? No.

But if everyone searched before posting, this place would be dead instead of a quiet internet backwater.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

SPD pedals on a road bike gotta get more respect than running pit bull pedals on any bike.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

If you are able....It's easier to say it than do it.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> Do most topics posted even need a new thread? No.
> 
> But if everyone searched before posting, this place would be dead instead of a quiet internet backwater.


But if someone bumped a dormant thread, there comes criticism about thread dredging. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. :mad2:


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## Bremerradkurier (May 25, 2012)

A lot easier to do cyclocross style mounts/dismounts with SPD pedals and shoes, both of which are boss moves.


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## bradkay (Nov 5, 2013)

There are high end MTB shoes with carbon soles. I have one pair, though my others are mid-range ones with very stiff nylon/composite soles. 

The ability to use any of my shoes on any of my bikes is key being as I live in a very wet climate and may only have one dry pair on any given day.


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## stevoo (Oct 26, 2011)

Spd on every bike. Work great mtn biking.
Work great touring.
Work great on the go fast road bike. Work great on my tandems.
They even make really nice mtn/SPD shoes nowadays that when cliped in on the bike you would think they are road shoes. Modern mtn shoes are available in models that are as stiff as you desire. Your hard core roadie friends won't know your running SPD until they see at the coffee shop you are the only one not skating around walking like a duck wearing out cleats.
I ditched road specific stuff years ago. For my needs SPD just works better. All my shoes work on all my bikes.
XT, XTR pedals spin smooth and last forever. SPD cleats last super long too. Easy in, easy out, some float, double sided, tons of fore and aft adjustment range on mtn shoes, what's not to like.
I guess the system does not say "road" so some folks have trouble getting past that.
Of course, to each their own.
Use what works for you.
Good luck.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

Yes, it is wrong. Egg beaters are better and lighter.

On the other hand, road bike shoes are useless except for racing.


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## walrus (Jan 29, 2004)

I put Eggbeaters on my Ti. road bike when I built it 17 years ago. I liked the way stainless pedals looked on the titanium frame. I have three bikes and three pairs of shoes, with some form of Crank Brothers peddles the bikes and cleats on the shoes. Just pushing off from a stop sign is so much easier and safer than road bike shoes. Walking is like walking in comfortable shoes.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

velodog said:


> SPD pedals on a road bike gotta get more respect than running pit bull pedals on any bike.


:lol::lol::lol:


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

SwiftSolo said:


> Yes, it is wrong. Egg beaters are better and lighter.


They also break after not too long. 2K miles and one of the springs sheared off. I'm back to good old reliable SPD mountain pedals.


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

I'm in the same conundrum as you are; I have 2 road bikes still using Look Delta cleats, and one gravel bike using SPD's. While I like having soled shoes with SPD cleats that I can actually walk and drive with, I still find them hard to clip in with accuracy. The Look pedals, OTOH, are extremely easy to clip into. Also, cleat covers are easy to put on to Delta and Keo cleats, but SPD cleats seem a bit harder for cleat covers to go onto, and provide less traction area. 

Still, someday soon I'll probably need to either upgrade to Keo cleats, or consider going full-SPD.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Lombard said:


> They also break after not too long. 2K miles and one of the springs sheared off. I'm back to good old reliable SPD mountain pedals.


Probably an isolated thing. Not saying spd or cranks bros are better than the other, but, to have a spring break is outside the bell curve. I used to ride them for years on the mountain bike and they worked flawlessly...candy's on the cx bike.

EDIT: SPD's on the road bikes until I started racing. Figured out SPD-SL work way better for that application.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

woodys737 said:


> Probably an isolated thing. Not saying spd or cranks bros are better than the other, but, to have a spring break is outside the bell curve. I used to ride them for years on the mountain bike and they worked flawlessly...candy's on the cx bike.
> 
> EDIT: SPD's on the road bikes until I started racing. Figured out SPD-SL work way better for that application.


Possibly. Though the experience of not being able to clip in for 7 miles is etched in my memory banks.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

You neglected to include an important choice in your poll -- Tried 'em and didn't like 'em.
Sure, SPD and Eggbeaters have their uses on commute bicycles and mountain bikes but I could never get comfortable on them over longer road bike type distances. No matter what brand of shoe I tried (I went through three different pairs), the SPD and Eggbeaters always felt tippy beneath my feet, something that eventually got my ankles sore, fatigued my calves and made my pedaling less powerful. No matter what shoe I wore, I could always feel the contact area beneath my shoe, something that eventually made me feel as if I were walking atop a high-wire. Returning to genuine road pedals and shoes instantly put my feet and legs back at ease. Suddenly, I couldn't care less if I were a bit tippy when I stumbled into the Starbucks.


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## 4slomo (Feb 11, 2008)

Consider your SPD pedals training pedals, and rename road pedals "race-day" pedals, if it matters to you.


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## PoorInRichfield (Nov 30, 2013)

4slomo said:


> Consider your SPD pedals training pedals, and rename road pedals "race-day" pedals, if it matters to you.


Good solution... I like it!


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

Lombard said:


> Possibly. Though the experience of not being able to clip in for 7 miles is etched in my memory banks.


If you want your mind really "etched", wait til you get a peble in your spd's and you can't get out _*ever*_ without removing your shoe.


I've been on eggbeaters for 21 years and have not only never had a spring failure, I have never heard of anyone who has--until now


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

it is a sin according to those on every other type of clipless pedal. i like em. if there is a downside it escapes me. tried look pedals for a few weeks when i first went clipless(or click in) and didn't care for it. i find the spd's far more freeing and practical.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

SwiftSolo said:


> If you want your mind really "etched", wait til you get a peble in your spd's and you can't get out _*ever*_ without removing your shoe.


Stopping to remove my shoe is a small inconvenience compared to a broken and useless pedal.


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## thisisthebeave (Aug 30, 2015)

When I first started cycling I had two pairs of junky Mavic's (SPD and SPD-SL) and thought "maybe I should have one nice pair instead of two bad pairs" (after my first pair of Mavic's started falling apart after <500 miles so I returned both for a pair of Sidi's, which I'm still riding 5 years later. Similar concept as to how people have 5 cars that barely run--why not sell them for one reliable car?


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## HyperCycle (Sep 5, 2012)

I'm a sinner and blasphemer. I've been using Speedplay Frog pedals and cleats on road bikes since I switched to clipless in 2014. I have them on 2 road bikes and 1 gravel bike. I prefer flats on my mountain bike. My Pearl Izumi mountain shoes have 5K road/gravel miles on them and they still look new. Plus, they are as comfortable as any good quality hiking shoe.


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## bmach (Apr 13, 2011)

I would be more concerned with the fact that you are riding a Trek! 

Who cares what you use other than you.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

bmach said:


> I would be more concerned with the fact that you are riding a Trek!
> 
> Who cares what you use other than you.


Well, you'd probably wax the hill slightly sooner than the riding mate on SPDs. His shoes are heavier and more flexible due to the smaller cleat and pedal, so carbon soled racing shoes on wide cleats will transfer force more efficiently, like adding high octane gas to the engine. IMO, anyway.

Quite a few riders have had the same experience as Mapei, heard tell. No way that shoe is not going to flex on that tiny cleat. The pedal isn't wide enough to spread out the force from the foot. The knees get wobbly at the worst times, when you need all the power you can get, or at the end of a long hard ride.

Here's the best of both worlds. Tennis shoes or carbon soled racing shoes, either way, no problem, same bike. :yesnod:

If dirt gets packed in the cleat, you can scrape it out with the key in your pocket.


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

I first started road riding with Candy's and low end MTB shoes. Switched to SPD-SL and road shoes due to foot pain. Still ride road pedals/shoes on my road bike, but before my current bike I rode a shop demo numerous times with SPD's and carbon soled MTB shoes without any issue. The shoes made the difference.

So I say stick with what works.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Fredrico said:


> Well, you'd probably wax the hill slightly sooner than the riding mate on SPDs. *His shoes are heavier and more flexible due to the smaller cleat and pedal,* so carbon soled racing shoes on wide cleats will transfer force more efficiently, like adding high octane gas to the engine. IMO, anyway.
> 
> Quite a few riders have had the same experience as Mapei, heard tell. No way that shoe is not going to flex on that tiny cleat. The pedal isn't wide enough to spread out the force from the foot. The knees get wobbly at the worst times, when you need all the power you can get, or at the end of a long hard ride.
> 
> ...


MTB shoes and SPD pedals have come a way over the years--contemporary SPD is not what it was in 1990. You can get stiff-as-in-SITFF MTB shoes, today. As with road shoes--cheap shoes are more flexy, ofc SPD is a platform that is much less forgiving to cheap flexy shoes.

Shoes will some grams heavier--but so what. being able to walk and not ruin floors or cleats is worth it.


If your knees are feeling wobbly, different shims/insoles are in order. My Shimano XC7s are a hell of a lot stiffer than my Sidi SD15 touring shoes.....OTOH the insoles/mid-sole of the XC7s are for people with flat feet (noticed the crank rub), swapped out the insoles and they work great.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

Marc said:


> MTB shoes and SPD pedals have come a way over the years--contemporary SPD is not what it was in 1990. You can get stiff-as-in-SITFF MTB shoes, today. As with road shoes--cheap shoes are more flexy, ofc SPD is a platform that is much less forgiving to cheap flexy shoes.
> 
> Shoes will some grams heavier--but so what. being able to walk and not ruin floors or cleats is worth it.
> 
> ...


This^^^


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

Lombard said:


> Stopping to remove my shoe is a small inconvenience compared to a broken and useless pedal.


Unless the surprise comes with inability to unclip when stopping, causing you to tip over to that side. . 

My experience is that the odds of braking a eggbeater spring is about that same as breaking a crank arm and infinitely less than breaking handlebars, frames, wheels, and seat posts. And yet, I continue to use handlebars, frames, wheels, and seat posts--some from the same manufacturer.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

SwiftSolo said:


> Unless the surprise comes with inability to unclip when stopping, causing you to tip over to that side. .
> 
> My experience is that the odds of braking a eggbeater spring is about that same as breaking a crank arm and infinitely less than breaking handlebars, frames, wheels, and seat posts. And yet, I continue to use handlebars, frames, wheels, and seat posts--some from the same manufacturer.


Yea, never really liked Eggbeaters. Upside is they shed muck easily (great for CX)

OTOH...

-Lots of just plain slop: up/down/left/right/angular....not float like say Speedplay X--it is just slop. Wastes power.
-Can't adjust them...at all.
-They eat soles...necessitating sole-protector-plates. Once set-up, who cares, but it is another wear item and another expense.
-Most shops can regale you with many tales of mid and long-term durability issues. YMMV, as you note.


There was also the reality that you can get Shimano XTR pedals (top of the line) regularly for the cost of mid/low tier Eggs without looking hard or waiting for sales...and the Shimanos are more easily serviced, and don't have any of the above buggers. You can also find SPD cleats anywhere for $15USD. I paid $90 Prime for my M9000 set off Amazon--and that sale went on for over a year.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

I have 4 pair of these, large platform, single side. I am as firmly connected to my bikes as I need to be. My Lake shoes are plenty stiff too!


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

Nah, OP. They’re not sinful.

Now _these_:










These are sinful. But I love them anyway.


This is not my signature


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

^ Aren't those known as shin buster? :cryin:


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## PoorInRichfield (Nov 30, 2013)

bvber said:


> ^ Aren't those known as shin buster? :cryin:


^ This! Using platform pedals as a kid on BMX and early mountain bikes has left my shins rather lumpy in my old(er) age 

I'm afraid platform pedals don't seem like a good alternative to SPD or Look compatible pedals for roadies as you can only apply force to the pedal on the down stroke instead of spinning. While most of the power in the pedal stroke is indeed on the down stroke even with clipless pedals, clipless pedals afford you the option of using the entire pedal stroke for some power to the pedal and an opportunity to give your thighs a break. Try doing one-legged drills on a platform pedal


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

bvber said:


> ^ Aren't those known as shin buster? :cryin:


These are shin busters


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

frdfandc said:


> These are shin busters


That should be called meat tenderizer.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

frdfandc said:


> I first started road riding with Candy's and low end MTB shoes. Switched to SPD-SL and road shoes due to foot pain. Still ride road pedals/shoes on my road bike, but before my current bike I rode a shop demo numerous times with SPD's and carbon soled MTB shoes without any issue. *The shoes made the difference.*So I say stick with what works.


Yep. When Look deltas came out everybody complained about their shoes flexing. They didn't feel connected. So the shoe manufacturers beefed up their soles to take on the function previously provided by the large area pedal cage. 

Shoe flex isn't as noticeable with rat traps. I once broke a cheap shoe sole while riding. It cracked across the sole right behind the cleat. Hardly felt it coming. That wouldn't happen today.

Hear tell SPD shoes are also great for walking, probably as good as my brown suede Addidas, but I don't have to clean out the cleat before I jump on the bike. I can instantly modulate shoe flex by loosening or tightening the toe strap. And when I want to show off, break out the leather Maressis, fully laced up since the dawn of cycle sport.

Marc, "wobbly" is an exaggeration. I mean a feeling of not quite enough lateral support across the leg when under power. Notice pedal surfaces kept getting wider for a while, and added bumpers to spread out the lateral stress? A nice stiff carbon shoe, heck a reasonably stiff SPD shoe, is probably good enough nowadays to provide that function, so it is no longer an issue. 

So SPD are more convenient, and finally as functional as old straps and clips. Roadies still prefer the larger Look style cleats over SPD, though. They're a conservative bunch.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

PoorInRichfield said:


> ^ This! Using platform pedals as a kid on BMX and early mountain bikes has left my shins rather lumpy in my old(er) age
> 
> I'm afraid platform pedals don't seem like a good alternative to SPD or Look compatible pedals for roadies as you can only apply force to the pedal on the down stroke instead of spinning. While most of the power in the pedal stroke is indeed on the down stroke even with clipless pedals, clipless pedals afford you the option of using the entire pedal stroke for some power to the pedal and an opportunity to give your thighs a break. Try doing one-legged drills on a platform pedal


Why would I use one leg when I can use both legs at the same time? As for the shins... mine are just fine. I hear folks complain about their feet slipping as well. I don’t know, maybe other people are just doing it wrong? 

My point is ride what works for you. If it’s SPDs or egg beaters or toe clips or platforms it’s fine as long as it works.

This is not my signature


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## bradkay (Nov 5, 2013)

"Hear tell SPD shoes are also great for walking, probably as good as my brown suede Addidas, but I don't have to clean out the cleat before I jump on the bike. I can instantly modulate shoe flex by loosening or tightening the toe strap."

In the old days of toe clips and straps I used to have to clean out my cleats on a regular basis - many times having to dislodge a small twig from the cleat channel. It seems to me that I have had to do so with my SPDs far less often - though I occasionally get a small pebble lodged in there instead. Mud has never been a problem with my SPDs - when fresh it just squeezes right on out. One time when mountain biking in the winter I had ice pack up in the cleat - that didn't squeeze out! 

Modulating shoe "flex" these days is handled by loosening or tightening the buckle. I like a snug heel and so keep mine tight.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Touch0Gray said:


> I have 4 pair of these, large platform, single side. I am as firmly connected to my bikes as I need to be. My Lake shoes are plenty stiff too!


This looks like what I use, but the ones I have are double sided (M530s). I find the platform lessens foot numbing on long rides.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

SwiftSolo said:


> Unless the surprise comes with inability to unclip when stopping, causing you to tip over to that side.


OK, point taken.



SwiftSolo said:


> My experience is that the odds of braking a eggbeater spring is about that same as breaking a crank arm and infinitely less than breaking handlebars, frames, wheels, and seat posts. And yet, I continue to use handlebars, frames, wheels, and seat posts--some from the same manufacturer.


So may I ask what is the most miles you have ever had on a set of Eggbeaters before they needed to be serviced or were toast? And I can't imagine that the soft brass cleat would last very long before needing replacement.

SPD M530s are cheap enough so when they have a problem, I don't mind just replacing them. But so far, I've never had a problem with any SPDs.


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## PoorInRichfield (Nov 30, 2013)

Opus51569 said:


> Why would I use one leg when I can use both legs at the same time?


You're not taking full advantage of all of your leg muscles with a platform pedal. 

By the very nature of the pedal, you can only push down on the pedal and not pull up or spin in circles, which is what single leg drills illustrate. Hence, if your legs get tired of pushing down, good luck... you can't switch to another muscle group to let your thighs rest a little. 

One of my favorite things to do after an intense effort is spin at high RPMs to give my legs a bit of a rest. I would think it'd be nearly impossible to spin at 110+ RPMs using platform pedals(?)

Anyway, whatever works for you is fine, but I think you're missing-out by not using clipless pedals.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

PoorInRichfield said:


> You're not taking full advantage of all of your leg muscles with a platform pedal.
> 
> By the very nature of the pedal, you can only push down on the pedal and not pull up or spin in circles, which is what single leg drills illustrate. Hence, if your legs get tired of pushing down, good luck... you can't switch to another muscle group to let your thighs rest a little.
> 
> ...


Great chart! 

Riders don't realize the hip extensors [A] on the butt are fully active from 12 to 3 o'clock and the knee extensors * are mainly later, 3 to 5 o'clock. Also ankle plantar flexors [C] on back of calves, kick in at 5 o'clock, sooner than I've expected.

Something to think about next time I'm out riding, in the quest for that perfect pedal stroke.*


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

PoorInRichfield said:


> You're not taking full advantage of all of your leg muscles with a platform pedal.


Brother, I'm a middle-aged Clydesdale on a road bike... I'm not taking "full advantage" of anything. I'm just trading some potential efficiency for comfort, the ability to ride with any shoe and not be attached to the bike if it falls over.


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## Wheelspeed (Nov 3, 2006)

I use XT or XTR SPD's on my road bikes, and I use some shoes that aren't very heavy. I was interested in converting to road pedals to drop some grams, but after looking into it, the SPD setup really isn't that heavy. XT pedals are like 352g and the pair of cleats are 52g IIRC. XTR are about 310g I believe. Some pedals that seem a lot lighter use heavy cleats, and you may even carry around some protectors in your jersey pocket to put on before walking in them. And there are SPD shoes with stiff soles, so I don't understand the reason for a longer pedal. Stiff soles take care of that issue. I'm around 200 lbs, so can't look at pedals with ti axles. I like the double-side entry of SPD also. But feel free to correct me if someone does know of a pedal system that drops about 100g or more from an XTR SPD setup (pedal + cleat setup).

EDIT- Well, I think I answered my own question- Looks like dedicated road shoes can be easily 200g lighter than SPD shoes that have a thick enough tread to 'bury' the cleat to make them walkable.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Wheelspeed said:


> But feel free to correct me if someone does know of a pedal system that *drops about 100g* or more from an XTR SPD setup (pedal + cleat setup).


I can assure you that you will not notice a 100g difference, seriously. That is less than 1/4 of a pound. A few pounds off the engine will make a much bigger difference.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

Lombard said:


> I can assure you that you will not notice a 100g difference, seriously. That is less than 1/4 of a pound. A few pounds off the engine will make a much bigger difference.



Yep. The spring in your step would be quickly cancelled out by that damn chain. :frown2:


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## BCSaltchucker (Jul 20, 2011)

PoorInRichfield said:


> You're not taking full advantage of all of your leg muscles with a platform pedal.
> 
> By the very nature of the pedal, you can only push down on the pedal and not pull up or spin in circles, which is what single leg drills illustrate. Hence, if your legs get tired of pushing down, good luck... you can't switch to another muscle group to let your thighs rest a little.
> 
> ...


this has been largely debunked. Cyclists do not pull up on the pedals, except for maybe sprinters in a sprint
https://roadcyclinguk.com/how-to/bike-fitting-the-myth-of-the-upstroke/
https://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/the-body-mechanic-stop-pulling-up-on-your-pedals-45868/
Myth of Pedaling Circles | Burnham Coaching

I just really prefer being clipped in on road bikes because there is less effort keeping the feet in place, and the axle-ball-of-foot geometry can remain ideal. But I only ride flats on the MTB


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

BCSaltchucker said:


> this has been largely debunked. Cyclists do not pull up on the pedals, except for maybe sprinters in a sprint
> https://roadcyclinguk.com/how-to/bike-fitting-the-myth-of-the-upstroke/
> https://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/the-body-mechanic-stop-pulling-up-on-your-pedals-45868/
> Myth of Pedaling Circles | Burnham Coaching
> ...


Yep, Bicycling did tests on how hard spinners were pulling up and found they were raising the feet just enough to unweight the pedal, but not enough to add force. It still feels nice knowing these muscles are there, controlled, called upon when desired. Classic roadies used to regain contact with those muscles riding indoor track on fixies during the winter, heard tell.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

BCSaltchucker said:


> this has been largely debunked. Cyclists do not pull up on the pedals, except for maybe sprinters in a sprint
> https://roadcyclinguk.com/how-to/bike-fitting-the-myth-of-the-upstroke/
> https://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/the-body-mechanic-stop-pulling-up-on-your-pedals-45868/
> Myth of Pedaling Circles | Burnham Coaching
> ...


^This.^ The main advantage is not having to concentrate of staying connected with the pedals.


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

I run high quality flat pedals and feel that you can pedal circles, if that’s what you wanna call it. 

But I find that what you are really doing is similar to scraping mud off your shoe on the up stroke and not really lifting up on your foot. 

For this motion, a good flat pedal with a good flat specific shoe works phenomenally. 

The best thing I ever did was switch to flats. It allows me to place my foot exactly where I want it on the pedal. 

I slowly swapped all my bikes over, even the roadies. 

I never thought I’d switch to flats ever, but as they say, “never say never”!

I have lots of shimano road pedals and time mtb. Pedals and some very high end specialized shoes I’ll never use if anyone needs a setup.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

factory feel said:


> I run high quality flat pedals and feel that you can pedal circles, if that’s what you wanna call it.
> 
> But I find that what you are really doing is similar to scraping mud off your shoe on the up stroke and not really lifting up on your foot.
> 
> ...


Well, keeping the foot flat on the pedals and letting them move the legs on the upstroke is about right, but whenever I've gone flat pedals, sooner or later, usually in an acceleration, one foot will come off the pedal on the upstroke. 

Hardly ever clip out, so the legs feel like an extension of the crank and I forget about them. Of course it wasn't that hard to keep the feet on the pedals before I got toe straps.


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## bradkay (Nov 5, 2013)

Whenever I am trying to put in extra effort and remain seated on the bike I find myself concentrating on putting that effort in the upstroke. It may be a subconscious effort to try and get some extra use out of the muscles that have not been working as hard, but it is noticeable. 

I've seen those studies and had people tell me that they prove you don't pull on the upstroke - but my muscles tell me otherwise.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

bradkay said:


> Whenever I am trying to put in extra effort and remain seated on the bike I find myself concentrating on putting that effort in the upstroke. It may be a subconscious effort to try and get some extra use out of the muscles that have not been working as hard, but it is noticeable.
> 
> I've seen those studies and had people tell me that they prove you don't pull on the upstroke - but my muscles tell me otherwise.


So do mine! :yesnod:

There are degrees of pull. Look at trackies on fixed gears, you have to wonder about power on the upstroke. They HAVE to follow the crank around or the bike stops. That takes muscular co-ordination freewheel bikes never demand.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Fredrico said:


> So do mine! :yesnod:
> 
> There are degrees of pull.* Look at trackies on fixed gears, you have to wonder about power on the upstroke*. They HAVE to follow the crank around or the bike stops. That takes muscular co-ordination freewheel bikes never demand.



Not really. We have on-bike power meters--and folks have studied these things.

https://thefixedgear.wordpress.com/2010/08/20/pedaling-techniques-and-efficiency-of-cyclists/


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

Marc said:


> Not really. We have on-bike power meters--and folks have studied these things.
> 
> https://thefixedgear.wordpress.com/2010/08/20/pedaling-techniques-and-efficiency-of-cyclists/


Besidds, if you stop pedaling on a fixed gear at a high cadence, the bike doesn't stop right away, it waits until it tries to rip your legs off! Ask me how I know this.


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## GearDaddy (Apr 1, 2004)

I've seen this whole debate over what makes better pedaling efficiency, i.e. using flats vs being clipped in, discussed many times over on the interwebs. Usually I've seen the conversation take place in the context of mtb riders. Yes it is certainly true that you can ride anything in flats, but usually the people that claim riding flats is better are not guys who are X-C racing, rather it is guys riding technical terrain or are not racing.

The fact is that the majority of the time riding tempo while seated a rider does not pull on the upstroke at all. But there definitely are times where you do, namely when trying to accelerate hard. The most common scenario where riding flats will challenge that you keep your foot on the pedal is when getting out of the saddle and driving hard, i.e. in a sprint or on a steep uphill grade. Yes you can still pedal smoothly with flats and keep your foot on the pedal, but a rider with feet firmly attached to the pedal is going to be able to just ride away from you.

There's no mystery as to why every track/road/mtb racer wants his feet firmly attached to the pedal, and why bike racers have been doing it for over 100 years. It allows for maximum power to be put to the pedals whenever you want. I've known track riders that use clipless pedals AND add additional straps just ensure that their feet stay firmly intact when they go into max sprint mode.

I would also submit that for X-C and somewhat technical mtb riding that being clipped in is safer. You do not want your foot to come off the pedal, with all of the rough terrain and getting thrown around, as having your feet come off for whatever reason significantly reduces your ability to control the bike.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

I don't see SPD's as an advantage or disadvantage on the bike. It does make it easier to walk around when not on the bike.


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## Bob Ross (Apr 18, 2006)

PoorInRichfield said:


> I've been primarily a "roadie" for almost 30 years (yikes!) and ever since the LOOK pedal & cleat was invented, that style of pedal (i.e., LOOK-compatible) has been my pedal of choice on my road bikes. However, *I opted for SPD-style pedals on my CX/gravel/trail bikes because I want to be able to walk when off the bike*.


So you _don't_ want to be able to walk when you're off your road bike?!?!


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## BCSaltchucker (Jul 20, 2011)

ah yes the roadie shoe hobble. I do it every cafe I stop at. Registered with the ministry of silly walks.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Bob Ross said:


> So you _don't_ want to be able to walk when you're off your road bike?!?!


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Bob Ross again.


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## Mike Overly (Sep 28, 2005)

Yep. Over the years I've gotten better at getting into them in traffic than toe clips.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

BCSaltchucker said:


> ah yes the roadie shoe hobble. I do it every cafe I stop at. Registered with the ministry of silly walks.


Ok, now that is funny!

i will mount SPDs today because my winter boots use them. My religious fervor has waned over the years.

FWIW, I know for certain I use as much of the pedaling circle as I can. Probably not all the time, but I work on it when riding tempo. I’m not gifted nough to race, but I practice making circles, keeping a quiet upper body, maintaining my line and many other racerly things. You may call me Fred.


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## config (Aug 16, 2002)

I've used SPD pedals and wore mountain bike shoes on my road bike. It was nice to be able to walk like a normal human being while off the bike.

I have since moved to Speedplay pedals with the cleat covers on my shoes though.


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## Joe(°-°) (Sep 27, 2011)

I did a pretty good benchmark on pedals.
SPD have practically only a 150 grams penalty over Delta Cleat for the same quality of shoe and pedal.
Pedal function is the same. Walking is world apart.
You need to buy a road purpsed SPD pedal if you are a fast rider (40 kmh guy) because of aero.
If you bought a low cost SPD pedal you have to put a bit of bar tape on the pedal to catch up the spare clearances. With that hack they get as good as delta cleats.


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## DaveRider (Jul 29, 2016)

I used M-520's on my road bike. They last forever. They're double-sided, so easier to clip back in after an oops moment. And I have more shoe choices than wooden Dutch boy shoes.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

DaveRider said:


> I used M-520's on my road bike. They last forever. They're double-sided, so easier to clip back in after an oops moment. And I have more shoe choices than wooden Dutch boy shoes.


^This!^


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## PoorInRichfield (Nov 30, 2013)

I think these might push me into using SPDs for my road bike...

Shimano Ultegra PD-ES600

Quite frankly, I didn't even know these pedals existed until today. They're only about ~30g heavier than my Ultegra carbon SPD-SL pedals and from the look of them, I'm assuming they have reasonable corner clearance.

The only down-side I can see is that SPD shoes will still weigh more (the weight-weenie in me made me point that out  )


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## PoorInRichfield (Nov 30, 2013)

I think I'm heading down the road of ditching my SPD-SL pedals and going all-SPD. I just ordered a pair of Bontrager Espresso shoes which look like the perfect combo for me... a mid-range road shoe with an SPD cleat.

From the top, the Espresso looks like a normal road shoe...









But flip the shoe over and surprise! A walkable SPD sole!


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

PoorInRichfield said:


> I think I'm heading down the road of ditching my SPD-SL pedals and going all-SPD. I just ordered a pair of Bontrager Espresso shoes which look like the perfect combo for me... a mid-range road shoe with an SPD cleat.
> 
> From the top, the Espresso looks like a normal road shoe...
> 
> ...


It doesn't look like there is much of a recess for the cleat.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

Lombard said:


> It doesn't look like there is much of a recess for the cleat.


Yep, those ridges along the sides aren't thick enough to keep the cleat from sticking out. Gotta add some thread. These are serious roadie shoes not meant for walking.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Fredrico said:


> Yep, those ridges along the sides aren't thick enough to keep the cleat from sticking out. Gotta add some thread. These are serious roadie shoes not meant for walking.


Yep. Hardwood floors won't love you for those.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Lombard said:


> It doesn't look like there is much of a recess for the cleat.





Fredrico said:


> Yep, those ridges along the sides aren't thick enough to keep the cleat from sticking out. Gotta add some thread. These are serious roadie shoes not meant for walking.


I think that's just the angle of the photo. The sole looks to be deeper on the sides than the thru the center. Doesn't look to be a lot of thickness, maybe in an effort to appeal to road cyclists, but I think that advertising a walkable shoe that didn't work as claimed is something that Trek is smart enough not to do. 

I'm not a Trek fan, but that's just my take.


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## marco.marani (Oct 5, 2021)

For SPD users: is there any meaningful difference, when dealing with long distances (i.e. 3 hours or more of hard pushing) between pedals with a very small contact surface such as the M-520, versus wider ones such as PD-ED500? I mean both in terms of comfort and power transfer


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

marco.marani said:


> For SPD users: is there any meaningful difference, when dealing with long distances (i.e. 3 hours or more of hard pushing) between pedals with a very small contact surface such as the M-520, versus wider ones such as PD-ED500? I mean both in terms of comfort and power transfer


That is exactly what I use - formerly known as the M-530. The increase in surface area around the cleat may seem trivial, but I definitely notice less toe numbness while riding.


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## PoorInRichfield (Nov 30, 2013)

marco.marani said:


> For SPD users: is there any meaningful difference, when dealing with long distances (i.e. 3 hours or more of hard pushing) between pedals with a very small contact surface such as the M-520, versus wider ones such as PD-ED500? I mean both in terms of comfort and power transfer


I don't think the SPD pedal size matters much if your shoes have a rigid enough sole. As the OP, I did switch to just riding with my SPD pedals full-time and have had no issues. Most of my rides are in the 2 to 5 hour range. I don't have the shoes in my original post, though. I ride with Lake shoes that have a carbon sole with my SPD pedals. The soles are so rigid that it doesn't matter what pedals are attached.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

marco.marani said:


> For SPD users: is there any meaningful difference, when dealing with long distances (i.e. 3 hours or more of hard pushing) between pedals with a very small contact surface such as the M-520, versus wider ones such as PD-ED500? I mean both in terms of comfort and power transfer


Your best answer would probably come from looking the equipment choices being made for any of the many gravel ultra-distance events. Shux, the Oregon Outback is about 350 miles of mostly gravel roads that the top contenders are riding in less than 30 hours. Their pedal\shoe choices would be telling.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

PoorInRichfield said:


> I don't think the SPD pedal size matters much if your shoes have a rigid enough sole. As the OP, I did switch to just riding with my SPD pedals full-time and have had no issues. Most of my rides are in the 2 to 5 hour range. I don't have the shoes in my original post, though. I ride with Lake shoes that have a carbon sole with my SPD pedals. The soles are so rigid that it doesn't matter what pedals are attached.


This is exactly right. Carbon soles on the higher end shoes are so rigid that the pedal could be any size and it wouldn't make a difference. I like Shimano shoes (SHXC90) because they come in wide sizes. 

I've been riding Time ATAC pedals on my road bikes for 20 years. Did a bike tour in Tuscany in 2000 and the tour group owner (Andy Hampsten) suggested we use mountain bike pedals because we'd be stopping and walking around. I grudgingly tried it and it was so much better than road pedals that I switched everything over.


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