# General Questions



## ycastane (May 1, 2014)

I've done some research and have found that you need to use degreaser to remove lube from chain, chainring, cogs, etc. I've also seen videos where they just wash everything with water and soap and there is no need for degreaser. Just wondering what is the best option.

Im riding 3 times a week around the beach so there is a bit of sand getting into the components, should I remove and lube every month to remove the sand? Could I go longer or perhaps less time in between cleaning and lubing?

if I go the water and soap route, can I use an air compressor to dry components or should I let it air dry?


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

The cleaner you keep your drivetrain, the longer it (chain, cassette and crankset) will last.

IMHO, some of those You Tube videos need to be taken with a grain of salt. I have seen people do things to their bikes that are downright scary including using garden hose sprayers to clean them and tightening components using their entire weight - YIKES!!!

Remember, bearings and water generally do not get along!

How do I clean my drivetrain? I use the Park Tool Cyclone Chain Scrubber:

Park Cyclone Chain Scrubber at REI.com|

....and fill it with White Lightning Clean Ride:

White Lightning Clean Ride 32oz Jug | White Lightning

This is a cleaner and lube all in one.

I also remove the cassette from the bike and use a scrub brush and degreaser to clean it.

As far as the crank, I just dry wipe the chainrings as best I can.


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## ycastane (May 1, 2014)

Lombard said:


> The cleaner you keep your drivetrain, the longer it (chain, cassette and crankset) will last.
> 
> IMHO, some of those You Tube videos need to be taken with a grain of salt. I have seen people do things to their bikes that are downright scary including using garden hose sprayers to clean them and tightening components using their entire weight - YIKES!!!
> 
> ...


Makes total sense, which is why before I started messing up the bike instead of making it better, I though I'd ask here since this site is fantastic and im here to learn more about the hobby!

thanks Lombard!!!,


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## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)

When I clean my drivetrain I have two protocols: a quick clean and a complete disassemble. 

With the the quick clean I spray the cassette down with degreaser as I am back pedaling making sure to get the whole chain. I also spray the derailers. 

Then I use a scrubber and scrub it all off and rinse with water from a watering can. Dry and then lube. I do this at least once a week. 

The disassemble I remove the chain and put it in an old water bottle full of degreaser and let it soak for a while while I'm cleaning the rest of the bike. 

I spray degreaser on everything and then use soap and water to scrub everything. I take the chain out of the bottle and will scrub it in a sink with soap. Dry, install and lube.


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## cnardone (Jun 28, 2014)

brianmcg said:


> When I clean my drivetrain I have two protocols: a quick clean and a complete disassemble.
> 
> With the the quick clean I spray the cassette down with degreaser as I am back pedaling making sure to get the whole chain. I also spray the derailers.
> 
> Then I use a scrubber and scrub it all off and rinse with water from a watering can. Dry and then lube. I do this at least once a week.


Brian,
Do you live somewhere that requires extra care? Is this a mountain bike or a Road bike? I bought a road bike 7 weeks ago and I've not cleaned anything on it yet!!!


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

cnardone said:


> Brian,
> Do you live somewhere that requires extra care? Is this a mountain bike or a Road bike? I bought a road bike 7 weeks ago and I've not cleaned anything on it yet!!!


There are many opinions on this, so don't take my comments as personal criticism, but brian's weekly "quick" clean is way excessive, IMO. Using degreaser and soap and water that frequently runs the risk of leaving some parts under-lubed sometimes, and can increase wear in the long run. You can get away with it if you're very fastidious about rinsing, drying and re-lubing, but it is not necessary. Your drivetrain does not have to be clean enough to eat off of in order to function well and last a long time. Wanting it to be that clean is more of an aesthetic choice than a functional need. NTTAWWT.


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## ycastane (May 1, 2014)

Yeah I just want to make sure the sand doesn't mess it up. I already ordered the park tools chain scrubber and some chain-L lube.

I appreciate all the help fellas!!,


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

JCavilia said:


> There are many opinions on this, so don't take my comments as personal criticism, but brian's weekly "quick" clean is way excessive, IMO. Using degreaser and soap and water that frequently runs the risk of leaving some parts under-lubed sometimes, and can increase wear in the long run. You can get away with it if you're very fastidious about rinsing, drying and re-lubing, but it is not necessary. Your drivetrain does not have to be clean enough to eat off of in order to function well and last a long time. Wanting it to be that clean is more of an aesthetic choice than a functional need. NTTAWWT.


Precisely why I do not use soap and water (or any water based cleaners) to clean my chain. This is the one part of your drivetrain that can rust. Once a chain rusts, it should be replaced. I always use a wax based cleaner. The White Lightning Clean Ride does a nice job. It cleans nicely and is also a wax lube that dries so it doesn't attract dirt the way a wet oil lube does.

BTW, that factory oil you find on a new chain is great for storage (rust preventive), but it is a terrible dirt magnet. The Clean Ride gets rid of that all.

I agree that once a week is excessive, unless you ride in rain and on wet roads a lot. If I get caught in the rain, I wipe the chain down after the ride, then re-lube. Otherwise, I clean the chain about every 500 miles or when it starts to look really nasty and gummy.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Lombard said:


> Precisely why I do not use soap and water (or any water based cleaners) to clean my chain. This is the one part of your drivetrain that can rust. Once a chain rusts, it should be replaced. I always use a wax based cleaner. The White Lightning Clean Ride does a nice job. It cleans nicely and is also a wax lube that dries so it doesn't attract dirt the way a wet oil lube does.
> 
> BTW, that factory oil you find on a new chain is great for storage (rust preventive), but it is a terrible dirt magnet. The Clean Ride gets rid of that all.
> 
> I agree that once a week is excessive, unless you ride in rain and on wet roads a lot. If I get caught in the rain, I wipe the chain down after the ride, then re-lube. Otherwise, I clean the chain about every 500 miles or when it starts to look really nasty and gummy.


Counterpoint time...

I HATE the Park chain-cleaning-mess-box thing. Can not stand it. Refuse to put them on the shelf in the store. 

I clean my drivetrain w/ either Simple Green or diesel fuel. Obviously the SG is easier on the environment. Spray some on or brush on some diesel, agitate w/ your favorite drivetrain brush and rinse off. With water. From a hose. WD40 Bike degreaser works well also. 

I have never had an issue w/ brushing the crap out of a chain, then rinsing it w/ water...even w/ decent force. As long as you don't blast water past bearing shields, you're fine. When you lube the chain, the lube will get to where it needs to be. These are bicycle chains, not X-ring moto chains. If you wash the lube completely off the chain, you'll be fine by just normal lubing technique.

You can add wax lubes to my list of hated products. They do a pretty poor job of lubricating and have a very short life. As long as whatever lube I use cleans up easily (I'm not picky about lube, really... WD40 dry, wet, ProLink, DuMonde, home brew...) I'm happy. Wet oil lubes won't get dirty if you apply them correctly. I'm happy to post pics of my drivetrain any time. It's NEVER dirty and I don't get OCD about it ever.


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## ycastane (May 1, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> Counterpoint time...
> 
> I HATE the Park chain-cleaning-mess-box thing. Can not stand it. Refuse to put them on the shelf in the store.
> 
> ...


Well it's to late for the park tool gimbal lol, it's already shipped, I will be using the SG for sure and chain-l lube as it seems to be the preferred amongst most here so that's what I'll use until I see it doesn't work. If the PT chain cleaner doesn't work I'll jump to the brush I guess.


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## Big Man (Jul 15, 2014)

Didn't want to start a new thread so I'll just ask my question here. I'm new to the hobby and just bought a bike a week ago. Is there a general checklist of what needs to be done to take care of bike? Such as what to do after 100, 500, 1,000 miles, etc. Also, how do you store the bike? I rent a bedroom in a house and just keep my bike upright against the wall. Should I store it upside down or get hooks for the wall?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

ycastane said:


> Well it's to late for the park tool gimbal lol, it's already shipped, I will be using the SG for sure and chain-l lube as it seems to be the preferred amongst most here so that's what I'll use until I see it doesn't work. If the PT chain cleaner doesn't work I'll jump to the brush I guess.


I wouldn't pay $0.02 for one of those Park chain thingies. My last chain lasted 11,000 miles with monthly backpedaling through a WD-40 sprayed rag for cleaning and lubing with the least expensive lube of all - homebrew. Simple; quick; VERY effective. Anything else take much longer and costs much more.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

I use homebrew. I dampen a rag with it and wipe the chain. Repeat until the rag is pretty clean. Drip on some lube, wipe again, repeat until seems pretty clean. Drip on a final application, wait a few hours (at least) for the solvent to evaporate, wipe again, ride.

That happens every few hundred miles, or more, or less if I get in a lot of rain. Can't remember the last time I removed a chain to clean it.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

Lombard said:


> Precisely why I do not use soap and water (or any water based cleaners) to clean my chain. This is the one part of your drivetrain that can rust. Once a chain rusts, it should be replaced. I always use a wax based cleaner. The White Lightning Clean Ride does a nice job. It cleans nicely and is also a wax lube that dries so it doesn't attract dirt the way a wet oil lube does.
> 
> BTW, that factory oil you find on a new chain is great for storage (rust preventive), but it is a terrible dirt magnet. The Clean Ride gets rid of that all.
> 
> I agree that once a week is excessive, unless you ride in rain and on wet roads a lot. If I get caught in the rain, I wipe the chain down after the ride, then re-lube. Otherwise, I clean the chain about every 500 miles or when it starts to look really nasty and gummy.


I never use a degreaser or a chain cleaning device. Assuming we're talking road riding, use the following technique for successful ProLink or homebrew lube (1 part motor oil to 3-4 parts odorless mineral spirits) application and use:

1 - wipe the chain, cogs, pulleys, and chain rings clean with a rag. If there is gunk on the cogs, floss between them with a rag wet with OMS. 
2 – shift to the big ring and the smallest cog and drip on lube while pedaling slowly so that the chain just starts to drip lube. Aim the lube between the side plates and between the bushings and the side plates. 
3 - keep pedaling the cranks for a minute or so to loosen all the dirt on the chain and to get full penetration of the lube. 
4 - thoroughly wipe the chain, cogs, pulleys, and chain rings clean with a rag. 
5 - repeat steps 2-4 if the chain was really dirty 

Do this AFTER a ride, as you want to allow time for the solvent to evaporate before you head out on the road. If you do this every 300 miles or so (or when you get caught in the rain or other dirty conditions), you will not get any significant gunky buildup, and you won't have to remove the chain or the cassette to clean it , and no separate cleaning is ever required. This leaves lube on the inside parts, and wipes it off the outside parts, minimizing dirt pickup.

No lube is "perfect." A bright shiny chain that is clean to the touch but is well lubed and gives long mileage is still not possible. IMO, ProLink/home brew is the best compromise among commercial lubes. Other people have different opinions.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

JCavilia said:


> I use homebrew. I dampen a rag with it and wipe the chain.


I was waiting for someone to suggest that. But, reading carefully, you use home brew to clean the chain, not lube the chain. There was a very informative thread on home brew lubricants. Can that still be found?


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

myhui said:


> I was waiting for someone to suggest that. But, reading carefully, you use home brew to clean the chain, not lube the chain. There was a very informative thread on home brew lubricants. Can that still be found?


You didn't read carefully enough.


> Drip on a final application, wait a few hours (at least) for the solvent to evaporate, wipe again, ride.


That last application carries lube into the chain, and the evaporation of the solvent leaves oil inside to lube the chain. The final wipe just takes the excess off the outside where it's not doing anything anyway.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

JCavilia said:


> That last application carries lube into the chain, and the evaporation of the solvent leaves oil inside to lube the chain.


OK, I see it now.

But I still like using the Park Tool cleaning jig to flush the particles out from between the links.

It's just that using the citrus based cleaning fluid from Park or other sources isn't good.

I'll put your home brew solution into the jig from Park, and run it, after first doing the wipe down with the rag. The cost is lower with home brew, so some of it can be used and discarded as cleaning solution.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

JCavilia said:


> I use homebrew. I dampen a rag with it and wipe the chain. Repeat until the rag is pretty clean. Drip on some lube, wipe again, repeat until seems pretty clean. Drip on a final application, wait a few hours (at least) for the solvent to evaporate, wipe again, ride.


Yeah coz homebrew is mostly solvent anyway (except for mine at 50/50)



> That happens every few hundred miles, or more, or less if I get in a lot of rain. Can't remember the last time I removed a chain to clean it.


It's about 600 miles between my re-lubing with homebrew. Two weeks ago I got caught in a 10-mile downpour. I just wiped the chain off with WD-40 to stop it from rusting. It's done maybe 300 miles since then with no re-lube after the rain.


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## ycastane (May 1, 2014)

Kerry Irons said:


> I never use a degreaser or a chain cleaning device. Assuming we're talking road riding, use the following technique for successful ProLink or homebrew lube (1 part motor oil to 3-4 parts odorless mineral spirits) application and use:
> 
> 1 - wipe the chain, cogs, pulleys, and chain rings clean with a rag. If there is gunk on the cogs, floss between them with a rag wet with OMS.
> 2 – shift to the big ring and the smallest cog and drip on lube while pedaling slowly so that the chain just starts to drip lube. Aim the lube between the side plates and between the bushings and the side plates.
> ...


What I'll do is just return the PT gimbal as soon as I get it, I like the home brew idea, thanks for the recipe!!! Normally I don't ride much during the week or at least haven't been able to since I bought the bike about 6 weeks ago, but on the weekends I ride in Key Biscayne (Miami Fl) for those who don't know, I do ride on the road but there is still a lot of sand on the road and some gets thrown up, the other day I looked closely and noticed the chain is not bad when it comes to gunk and stuff but it has quite a bit of sand and is visible so I just wanted to know how to do it so I can keep up with it and do it as needed. Thanks again for the advice and recipe!!!,


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

ycastane said:


> What I'll do is just return the PT gimbal as soon as I get it, I like the home brew idea, thanks for the recipe!!! Normally I don't ride much during the week or at least haven't been able to since I bought the bike about 6 weeks ago, but on the weekends I ride in Key Biscayne (Miami Fl) for those who don't know, I do ride on the road but there is still a lot of sand on the road and some gets thrown up, the other day I looked closely and noticed the chain is not bad when it comes to gunk and stuff but it has quite a bit of sand and is visible so I just wanted to know how to do it so I can keep up with it and do it as needed. Thanks again for the advice and recipe!!!,


If you want to read up on my well-tested, dead easy and very inexpensive methods of chain cleaning and lubrication, FWIW, check my chains page -

Chains


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## ycastane (May 1, 2014)

Mike T. said:


> If you want to read up on my well-tested, dead easy and very inexpensive methods of chain cleaning and lubrication, FWIW, check my chains page -
> 
> Chains


Great write up! Thanks for sharing!!


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

ycastane said:


> Well it's to late for the park tool gimbal lol, it's already shipped, I will be using the SG for sure and chain-l lube as it seems to be the preferred amongst most here so that's what I'll use until I see it doesn't work. If the PT chain cleaner doesn't work I'll jump to the brush I guess.


Everybody has their own opinions on the bike lubes and cleaning techniques they love - just like tires and saddles. Everybody has one they are loyal to.

There are many emotions about the Park Cyclone Chain Scrubber - both positive and negative. Personally, I still like this for cleaning the chain and doesn't require you to remove the chain from the bike. I am still (possibly unnecessarily) paranoid about rinsing a chain with water. But hey, CX is a bike shop owner, mechanic and highly reputable Roadbikereview forum member, so he must be doing something right. However, from my own experience, dry lubes stay clean longer than wet lubes do. Where dry lubes fall short is if you ride in rain and wet conditions, wet lube may be a better choice for that.

I will agree that while the White Lightning Clean Ride is a great non-water based cleaner, it is only a so-so lube. I have been following up with Rock n Roll Red which really quiets things down nicely.


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## Social Climber (Jan 16, 2013)

FWIW I use the Park Chain cleaner device and think it is an easy way to get the chain very clean and new looking. The fluid can be expensive but you can also use dish soap.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

ycastane said:


> Great write up! Thanks for sharing!!


I hope you got something out of it. If I thought there was a better way, or if I found a better way, I'd use it and write it up. But so far this is the best I've found that works perfectly for me.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Mike T. said:


> I hope you got something out of it. If I thought there was a better way, or if I found a better way, I'd use it and write it up. But so far this is the best I've found that works perfectly for me.


Interesting. Definitely unorthodox, but if you are getting 11K+ miles with room to spare, who am I to disagree. I use the Park Tool CC-2 Chain Checker to measure wear. A new chain generally measures 0.5. They say to change the chain at or beyond 1.0. I change it once it's past 0.75 which seems to fall at around 2,000 miles. This may seem like overkill but I figure I get all that much more life out of the cassette (more expensive than a chain) and chainrings (MUCH more expensive than a chain). I could probably get 4,000 miles though that's still way less than you are getting. I do a lot of hilly rides but I am a modest 175lbs in my birthday suit and am more of a spinner than a masher.

When you say WD-40, do you mean the WD-40 bike products or general WD-40? And does it really displace water once it's there? I know it works well to repel water, but won't water repel the WD-40 if water is there first?


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

I stopped using the Park tool chain thingy cleaner.

I find it easier to remove the chain, soak it in degreaser (I use Zep orange cleaner, I buy from Home Depot) inside a empty glass jar that used to have pasta sauce,... let it soak, then shake it for a minute, then let it soak again... then pour it out and and rinse.

If you're that paranoid about corrosion, then use a little WD-40, since it is a water displacer, then (for the OP), a dry lube, like Finish Line dry lube (not a big fan of White Lightning).

While the chain is being cleaned, one can clean the cassette also, with the same cleaner.

Odorless Mineral Spirits is popular, but disposal is another issue


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

tednugent said:


> I stopped using the Park tool chain thingy cleaner.
> 
> I find it easier to remove the chain, soak it in degreaser...........


Precisely why I use the Park Tool thingy. I really don't like removing the chain any more often than absolutely necessary. Every time you remove the chain, you create one more weak point. If using the connector pin, you must make it a different point each time as punching any one point out twice dratically compromises that link. I suppose if you use a masterlink or powerlink, this is less of an issue, but I believe the Shimano connector pin to be a stronger connection.



tednugent said:


> If you're that paranoid about corrosion, then use a little WD-40...........


The other thing I don't like about WD-40. It smells NASTY!!! This is especially an issue since my bikes live indoors in my living space!



tednugent said:


> Odorless Mineral Spirits is popular, but disposal is another issue


This is another valid concern about the mineral spirits route.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Lombard said:


> Interesting. Definitely unorthodox,


By whose standards? Certainly not mine but maybe to yours eh?



> but if you are getting 11K+ miles with room to spare, who am I to disagree. I use the Park Tool CC-2 Chain Checker to measure wear


I had one of those years ago and I could make a new chain read worn out. So what was the point? Plus, it only takes a measurement over a tiny piece of chain (4"?). Does that make a 12" measurement potentially 3x more accurate? I have a four foot tape hanging from the bike room ceiling and if you want to see wear amplified, try that!



> When you say WD-40, do you mean the WD-40 bike products or general WD-40? And does it really displace water once it's there? I know it works well to repel water, but won't water repel the WD-40 if water is there first?


Yep, regular old buy-it-by-the-gallon WD-40. I can't answer your last question (or choose not to get into it). It just works and works well. It stops a wet chain going rusty but maybe 10w30 would too, or sewing-machine oil. Or bacon grease.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Social Climber said:


> FWIW I use the Park Chain cleaner device and think it is an easy way to get the chain very clean and new looking. The fluid can be expensive but you can also use dish soap.


Dish soap? To clean a chain? I clean bikes every day and dish soap does nothing to clean a drivetrain.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

It seems like the choice of cleaning fluid is just as important and certainly just as interesting as the lubricant.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Mike T. said:


> Yep, regular old buy-it-by-the-gallon WD-40. I can't answer your last question (or choose not to get into it). It just works and works well. It stops a wet chain going rusty but maybe 10w30 would too, or sewing-machine oil. Or bacon grease.


Bacon grease? How about something healthier like canola or olive oil?


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

the whole point of WD-40 is to displace the water that is already there, hence, WD-40 is the 40th formulation of the water displacement.... it's developed for that primary purpose


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Lombard said:


> Bacon grease? How about something healthier like canola or olive oil?


Naww I can't stand those health freaks and their trendy substitutes.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

there is vegetable oil based lubes (high oleic base stock)

Renewable Lubricants Inc


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

tednugent said:


> there is vegetable oil based lubes (high oleic base stock)
> 
> Renewable Lubricants Inc


Very nice. I'll try some soon.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

The new line of WD-40 BIKE products was developed for riders who love keeping their rig in top condition…whether it’s on the move or standing still


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

ycastane said:


> Great write up! Thanks for sharing!!


Agreed, thanks! Easy and cheap, I like both!


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## ycastane (May 1, 2014)

I have a question, has anyone by any chance used FireClean!? Different uses but I was thinking about it and now I'm wondering, it's proven to lubricate ar-15 for thousands of rounds and blowback gases barely stick to bcg's and also I believe it has more friction than a bicycle chain. So has anyone used it!? Thought of it? Perhaps enlighten me on why it wouldn't work!? Just curious that's all.


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## D&MsDad (Jul 17, 2007)

Run the chain through a rag. If you like a pretty chain, put some lube on the rag after you've gotten the worst of the dirt off and run the chain through that to get the dirt off of the outsides of the plates. Once you've got your rag and lube with you, this takes maybe a minute.

Lube chain, wipe off excess. This takes about 1 - 2 min.

Done. 




----------------


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

What is a good cleaning agent then, if people say (and I tend to agree with them) that the citrus based stuff is no good?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

myhui said:


> What is a good cleaning agent then, if people say (and I tend to agree with them) that the citrus based stuff is no good?


Nothing wrong with good ol' Varsol or something that for me is a whole lot closer at hand - WD-40.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Mike T. said:


> Nothing wrong with good ol' Varsol or something that for me is a whole lot closer at hand - WD-40.


"Varsol". Haven't run across that term in a long time. Odorless Mineral Spirits - aka paint thinner - is the same thing, readily available at paint and hardware stores.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

JCavilia said:


> "Varsol". Haven't run across that term in a long time. Odorless Mineral Spirits - aka paint thinner - is the same thing, readily available at paint and hardware stores.


My gallon jug has lasted me about 15 years and that's what it was called back then - and maybe still is. Yep, I just looked - Varsol. It looks JUST like this from Home Deeepo -


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

tednugent said:


> there is vegetable oil based lubes (high oleic base stock)
> 
> Renewable Lubricants Inc


Penetrating Lubricants - Renewable Lubricants

I just ordered this: $25.63 for a gallon from Amazon.com: Renewable Lubricants Bio-Chain and Cable ISO 46 Lubricant Oil, 1 Gallon Jug.

Here is their spec sheet in pdf format.

Quoting that spec sheet:



> BPL™ is a multi-functional biobased penetrating lubricant. It is specially formulated to be an ultimately biodegradable
> penetrant that can be used as a light lubricant. Because of the super high viscosity index of the HOBS, this product performs in
> many applications. BPL™’s patented composition of additives and base fluids provides a protective, thin film lubricant. This
> natural oily film has shown in laboratory and field tests to outperform petroleum base oils in terms of natural lubricity.
> ...












My brand new 2014 Campagnolo Record Ultra Narrow 10 Speed Chain will only be lubricated with this stuff and nothing else. We'll see how well it protects the chain. I'll start using it a week from now.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

Latest chain cleaning method ... just for the fun of it, really:

1. Remove chain from bike.

2. Use Park Tool Co. CM-5.2 : Cyclone Chain Scrubber with WD-40 Bike Forming Wash to clean chain.

3. Flush with water.

4. Dry chain with towel, then dry each link with hair dryer: point dryer upwards, slide each link over air outlet slowly.

5. Put chain in small plate. Put Renewable Lubricants Bio-Chain and Cable ISO 46 Lubricant Oil onto plate. Let it soak overnight.

6. Meanwhile, clean rest of drive train with brush from CM-5.2 and paper towel.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

Very interesting ... after soaking overnight, the oil is half gone from the plate!


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

myhui said:


> Very interesting ... after soaking overnight, the oil is half gone from the plate!


Either it evaporated, or somebody drank it. Do you have a cat?



Seriously, the product is intriguing, and I'll be interested to hear how it works in the long run.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

JCavilia said:


> Either it evaporated, or somebody drank it. Do you have a cat? Seriously, the product is intriguing, and I'll be interested to hear how it works in the long run.


No cat in the house. Maybe the ants had a blast? It's vegetable oil, after all.

This goes a little way towards only using the very best Italian olive oil to lube the very best Campagnolo chain.

I'm trying to stretch the life of this chain before I switch over to the Campagnolo chain. So I thought I'd try this new oil on it before trying it on the new chain.

When I washed my fingers after handling it, the oil smelled like salad dressing.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

I put the chain back on, then poured the rest of the oil from the plate onto the cassette as I spun the whole drive train. Now it is totally drenched. I quickly run the chain through all the gears, so as to equalize the oil distribution.

But there is one major drawback: the oil sprayed onto the wheel's braking track, so I had to use paper towel to dry that off. At one point, the wheel was dripping oil everywhere. It reminds me of a certain stage of a piston engine rebuild.

It's interesting that the oil the chain soaked in overnight had some of the black gunk that came from the previous lube. I suppose that's just dirty lube. There's nothing more one can do except to repeat the whole sequence I described. But at least this new oil is definitely mixing in with the old oil, wherever it may be (and not already cleaned out).

The chain stretch is less than 1/16" now. I hope it stays at that level for another 500 miles.



But it is smooth. Is the whole drive train ever, ever smooth! Totally, totally smooth.


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## Social Climber (Jan 16, 2013)

cxwrench said:


> Dish soap? To clean a chain? I clean bikes every day and dish soap does nothing to clean a drivetrain.


According to the instructions that come with the chain scrubber: 

"Water and a small amount of dishwashing detergent may
be substituted for cleaning fluid."


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

cxwrench said:


> Dish soap? To clean a chain? I clean bikes every day and dish soap does nothing to clean a drivetrain.


I'll have to disagree a bit. It may not be the product you prefer, but dish soap will most assuredly dissolve grease and oil. They use Dawn dishwashing soap to clean crude oil off seabirds caught in oil spills.

But I prefer to use solvent-based cleaners, so I don't have to deal with the rinsing and drying issues.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

I just thought of a way to avoid splashing the wheel with oil.

Move the cassette to an old hub, without spokes connected to it, but still with the right splines to accept the cassette. Spin that with the oil soaked chain, and drip excess oil onto the cassette as well. Once it's all done dripping oil, switch the cassette back to your wheel.

I was worried that this oil may be similar to the penetrating oil used in automotive work, and it may interact badly with the glue on the Tufo tape. So far, I haven't detected anything bad. But just in case, I'll wash the tire and wheel in soapy water to get the oil off of the glue.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

myhui said:


> I just thought of a way to avoid splashing the wheel with oil.
> 
> Move the cassette to an old hub, without spokes connected to it, but still with the right splines to accept the cassette. Spin that with the oil soaked chain, and drip excess oil onto the cassette as well. Once it's all done dripping oil, switch the cassette back to your wheel.
> 
> I was worried that this oil may be similar to the penetrating oil used in automotive work, and it may interact badly with the glue on the Tufo tape. So far, I haven't detected anything bad. But just in case, I'll wash the tire and wheel in soapy water to get the oil off of the glue.


Seems like a lot of bother. I drip diluted lube (homebrew) onto my chain to clean it, and it doesn't splash onto the wheel. You don't need to spin it fast to get it to work into the chain.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

JCavilia said:


> Seems like a lot of bother. I drip diluted lube (homebrew) onto my chain to clean it, and it doesn't splash onto the wheel. You don't need to spin it fast to get it to work into the chain.


You're right, it is a lot of bother, but my main focus is submerging the whole chain in new lube overnight, and the splashing only occurs after I install the chain back onto the bike. I can wipe down the chain first before I install it. That'll completely stop the splashing. But I was determined to keep as much oil on the drive train as possible, and the downside of that decision is that oil may drip or splash.

I managed to ride it uphill for fifteen minutes this morning to the bagel shop. It's completely silent. No BB creaks, clicks, or any other sound was heard. And it felt fast too.

I call it my "race special" prep.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

myhui said:


> You're right, it is a lot of bother, but my main focus is submerging the whole chain in new lube overnight, and the splashing only occurs after I install the chain back onto the bike. I can wipe down the chain first before I install it. That'll completely stop the splashing. But I was determined to keep as much oil on the drive train as possible, and the downside of that decision is that oil may drip or splash.
> 
> I managed to ride it uphill for fifteen minutes this morning to the bagel shop. It's completely silent. No BB creaks, clicks, or any other sound was heard. And it felt fast too.
> 
> I call it my "race special" prep.


I call it "nonsense."


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

myhui said:


> Move the cassette to an old hub, without spokes connected to it, but still with the right splines to accept the cassette. Spin that with the oil soaked chain, and drip excess oil onto the cassette as well.


That is not as good an idea as I had originally thought. If you drip oil onto the cassette/spline interface, it helps. But with that method, you're not dripping oil onto the hub you'll use, but onto an old substitute hub.

I used to have some clicks coming from the cassette, and now they're completely gone, likely because the hub is completely coated with oil where it contacts the cassette.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

Be careful of your cassette lock ring coming off if you drip oil onto it. Clean oil off that surface where the lock ring presses onto the cassette. That's kept together by friction only. If you lube that surface, friction decreases significantly, and the lock ring spins off easily.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

JCavilia said:


> You're putting a lot of oil in places that don't need it and where it does no good. It only makes a mess, as you have seen.


You're right. I'll trim it back. I'm stuck waiting for a taxi now as the cassette worked loose when I was going up a hill. Wonders of technology lets me report on the problem immediately.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

> I was determined to keep as much oil on the drive train as possible


You're putting a lot of oil in places that don't need it and where it does no good. It only makes a mess, as you have seen.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

myhui said:


> You're right. I'll trim it back. I'm stuck waiting for a taxi now as the cassette worked loose when I was going up a hill. Wonders of technology lets me report on the problem immediately.


There's something you learned from. Your cassette lockring was undertorqued. That's the main reason it came off, and why it was creaking. You don't fix that by over-lubricating, but by using adequate torque. A light coat of grease on all the mating parts, and then torque it right.

And then when you oil the chain, OIL THE CHAIN. Not the cassette and freehub.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

JCavilia said:


> And then when you oil the chain, OIL THE CHAIN. Not the cassette and freehub.


I usually have the lock ring on quite tight, but this time, I didn't, and, combined with the oil, it came loose real fast. I think putting a thin coat of oil on the splines help. Even when I had the cassette lock ring on really tight, but with no oil on that friction surface, it still clicked sometimes, but I think that is due to the chain, not the cassette wiggling around.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

Here is my oil-soaked drive train. It works really well! Smooth as butter. Whenever I stop at a traffic light, I can smell the oil vapors from the chain.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

You should find a way to fit one of these chaincases then your drivetrain could swim in oil all the time. It would never wear out -


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

Mike T. said:


> You should find a way to fit one of these chaincases then your drivetrain could swim in oil all the time. It would never wear out -


So retro. I like it!

I need to add an oil dripper:









"_My chain is wetter than your chain._"


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

myhui said:


> Here is my oil-soaked drive train. It works really well! Smooth as butter. Whenever I stop at a traffic light, I can smell the oil vapors from the chain.


What a mess.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

JCavilia said:


> What a mess.


But it works! 

I need this brush: Finish Line Grunge Brush


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

myhui said:


> But it works!


It works to make a mess, to splatter oil all over parts that don't want it, to atract dirt (you will find). You're doing this all wrong. The cassette cogs do not need to be coated in oil. Lube is needed inside the moving parts of the chain. The interface between chain and cogs needs little or no lube, and will pick up enough by contact with the chain.



> poured the rest of the oil from the plate onto the cassette as I spun the whole drive train. Now it is totally drenched.


ALLLLLLL wrong.

I think you need this:
The ShelBroCo Bicycle Chain Cleaning System


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

JCavilia said:


> It works to make a mess, to splatter oil all over parts that don't want it, to atract dirt (you will find). You're doing this all wrong. The cassette cogs do not need to be coated in oil. Lube is needed inside the moving parts of the chain. The interface between chain and cogs needs little or no lube, and will pick up enough by contact with the chain.


I agree with your advice, for most people. But I was looking for a way to maximize drive train performance for short rides on clean dry roads. I do plan to clean everything once every 200 miles or so, hence all this will be re-lubricated, starting with an oil-free chain, cassette, hub, and chain ring.

I got a personal best on the steady climb I like to do to gauge my performance yesterday, and the drive chain did make a difference, since it felt so smooth and completely quiet.

The cassette and chain doesn't look to have attracted a lot of grit or dirt. The larger cogs have more grit since I don't use those. The smallest four cogs are all I use, and they're clean. The chain looks very clean as well. It all depends on where I ride.

You need to click the picture below to get to photobucket's website, and then click the photo to open it in its own window. Then find the "+" symbol at the bottom right corner. Click that, and you get the full original resolution of the photo. This is on a Canon S95, and I finally learned to use the macro lens mode with manual focus. It was taken on a tripod with delay trigger, so nothing's shaking at all.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

myhui said:


> I agree with your advice, for most people. But I was looking for a way to maximize drive train performance for short rides on clean dry roads. I do plan to clean everything once every 200 miles or so, hence all this will be re-lubricated, starting with an oil-free chain, cassette, hub, and chain ring.
> 
> I got a personal best on the steady climb I like to do to gauge my performance yesterday, and the drive chain did make a difference, since it felt so smooth and completely quiet.
> 
> ...


I swear you just do this to piss people off.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

cxwrench said:


> I swear you just do this to piss people off.


+1
Nuts.

BTW, one more point prompted by this alarming statement I missed before:


> But there is one major drawback: the oil sprayed onto the wheel's braking track, so I had to use paper towel to dry that off. At one point, the wheel was dripping oil everywhere.


You have likely significantly impacted the braking on your rear wheel. Oil dripping means oil seeped in between the rim and tire, and is continuing to seep out. You didn't (couldn't) get it all off with paper towels -- you'd need to remove tire and tube and clean the rim with solvent. Your brake pads are likely contaminated with oil, and will continue to be contaminated, until you properly clean the wheel. If I had that mess to deal with,I'd remove tire and tube (probably replace tube), clean rim, and replace brake pads.

What the heck are you thinking?


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

JCavilia said:


> What the heck are you thinking?


Did you really have to ask that question? I'm afraid he might answer.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

_"My chain is wetter than your chain."
_
End of argument.

Just go out and ride, and stop arguing.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

cxwrench said:


> I swear you just do this to piss people off.


No, not at all. I'm telling them of what I did that made my bike faster.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

myhui said:


> So retro. I like it! I need to add an oil dripper:


Been done, and elegantly too. Here's a seat-tube mounted oiler on a 1933 Ganna. To shut off the oil flow, you simply swivel the oiler so the delivery tube sticks straight up. The German company Rohloff brought out a seat-stay mounted oiler some years ago, but it didn't sell.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

myhui said:


> No, not at all. I'm telling them of what I did that made my bike faster.


You may think it made it faster, but it didn't. It just made it dirtier.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

wim said:


> The German company Rohloff brought out a seat-stay mounted oiler some years ago, but it didn't sell.


It's a useful product.

LUBMATIC: www.rohloff.de



> Lubricate only where you need it - Lubricant is pumped directly onto the chain rollers via a special jockey wheel fitted into the rar derailleur. This enables the rest of the chain to stay dry preventing dirt build-up on the exterior chain components.
> 
> Environmentally friendly - The exact quantitiy applied combined with the direct application greatly reduces the consumption of lubricant. For optimal results we recommend the bio-degradable Rohloff Lubmatic chain lubricant. The system does also work however with other commercially available lubricants.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Note the important statement in the ad copy you quoted:


> Lubricate only where you need it - Lubricant is pumped directly onto the chain rollers


Not "lubricate the whole back half of the bike by pouring wildly all over the cassette."



> It's a useful product.


I guess it wasn't "useful" to enough customers, since they stopped making it. I'm trying to figure out who would have found it useful; maybe long-distance touring cyclists who ride long days in the rain and have such a tight schedule that they can't stop for 5 minutes to apply some lube to the chain?


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## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)




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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

JCavilia said:


> You may think it made it faster, but it didn't. It just made it dirtier.


Probably makes about as much difference as shaving all your body hair or removing that plastic spoke protector to save weight. ;-) Oh wait, and if you have racing colors on your bike, that makes you faster too! :-D


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## vagabondcyclist (Apr 2, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> Counterpoint time...
> 
> I HATE the Park chain-cleaning-mess-box thing. Can not stand it. Refuse to put them on the shelf in the store.


It's one of those "what were they thinking?" products. It makes sense for about a second until someone who has actually worked on bicycles says, yeah no.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

vagabondcyclist said:


> It's one of those "what were they thinking?" products. It makes sense for about a second until someone who has actually worked on bicycles says, yeah no.


I use it all the time in its intended position as shown in the instructions and I find it very useful.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

myhui said:


> I use it all the time in its intended position as shown in the instructions and I find it very useful.


Works for me too, but obviously many here don't like it.


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