# Dura Ace 9000 with Jagwire Road Pro Housing



## octave (May 11, 2014)

hello,

so, i am wanting to add a bit of color that isn't red, white, black, grey to my bike... and am thus wondering if anyone has any experience running DA 9000 either with Jagwire Road Pro cables and housing, or with DA 9000 cables and jagwire road pro housing. if either is the case, how was the shifting/braking?

thanks,

o


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

How bad could it be? If you like a color that Jagwire does, go for it. I'm sure it will shift just great as long as you take care w/ the install.


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## masont (Feb 6, 2010)

In my experience Jagwire housing works great. Their cables seem far inferior to Shimano's, however, so I always recommend Shimano cables if someone wants colored housing.


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## Sanders (May 13, 2013)

I always use Jagwire inner and outer cables.
So when I switched it was a no brainer to install Jagwire again.
I haven't had any problems so far, works just fine to me.
But then again, maybe I'm not that experienced with cables.


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

octave said:


> hello,
> 
> so, i am wanting to add a bit of color that isn't red, white, black, grey to my bike... and am thus wondering if anyone has any experience running DA 9000 either with Jagwire Road Pro cables and housing, or with DA 9000 cables and jagwire road pro housing. if either is the case, how was the shifting/braking?
> 
> ...



Jagwire good bang for the buck on ebay.

There is only one thing I do not like (I know you asked about DA) in combination with my SRAM Rival. The Jagwire brake cable-housing end caps are much smaller in diameter than the inner diameter of the barrel adjuster of the brakes. I always think this is not safe and use some cheaper metal end caps from my spare box (they then sit more solid in the barrel adjuster). 

Maybe it is different for the DA brakes.


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## octave (May 11, 2014)

i am going to give it a try! i was just uncertain because of all i've read about the fancy new lube shimano is using for their DA cables. but i will install the jagwire stuff and report back! also, i will let you know about the ferrules and how well they seat in the brakes.

thanks!


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Jagwire with the black coated cable works great. However, Shimano 9000 cable is significantly better with distinctly less friction/sticktion...the next best thing to Di2. I've got the Jagwire on three bikes now (2 SRAM, 1 Shimano) and will switch them over to 9000 when it's time to recable them.


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## octave (May 11, 2014)

looigi said:


> Jagwire with the black coated cable works great. However, Shimano 9000 cable is significantly better with distinctly less friction/sticktion...the next best thing to Di2. I've got the Jagwire on three bikes now (2 SRAM, 1 Shimano) and will switch them over to 9000 when it's time to recable them.


what about the DA 9000 cables in the Jagwire housing? how does the friction/sticktion compare to pure unadulterated DA 9000?


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## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

looigi said:


> I've got the Jagwire on three bikes now (2 SRAM, 1 Shimano) and will switch them over to 9000 when it's time to recable them.


I agree. I have used Nokon, Jagwire and the Aican housings. All were crap compared to OEM Campagnolo. I'm done with non-OEM cables. OEMs know their products.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

octave said:


> what about the DA 9000 cables in the Jagwire housing? how does the friction/sticktion compare to pure unadulterated DA 9000?


Check out the Jagwire Road Elite Sealed Kit. You'll never experience sticktion.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

tlg said:


> Check out the Jagwire Road Elite Sealed Kit. You'll never experience sticktion.


What about sticktion on your stanktions?


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

To be clear, I'm not talking OEM vs aftermarket, or anything else. Simply that 9000 cable AND housing have, in my experience, the least friction and best shifting performance. I've used Gore, non-9000 Shimano, Jagwire pre black coating, Jagwire with black coating and Yokozuna cable sets. 9000 beats those. I'd run it if the only color it came in was orange.


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

looigi said:


> Jagwire with the black coated cable works great. However, Shimano 9000 cable is significantly better with distinctly less friction/sticktion...the next best thing to Di2. I've got the Jagwire on three bikes now (2 SRAM, 1 Shimano) and will switch them over to 9000 when it's time to recable them.


What you mean by stiction? Are you talking about Jagwire cables/housing sold separately? Or you are talking about the Jagwire Racer brake/gear cable set? The latter has sealed end caps and stuff like that.

I run Jagwire Racer all year long in the UK. We don't have much snow here but believe me I ride a lot over farmland when it is wet and mud is being easily picked up by the bike. Never had any issue with stickiness while shifting or braking (SRAM Rival).


Does anyone know why road brakes don't use something similar to the 'boot' which can be found on the old style MTB V-brakes? I use one on my rear road brake set up.


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

looigi said:


> To be clear, I'm not talking OEM vs aftermarket, or anything else. Simply that 9000 cable AND housing have, in my experience, the least friction and best shifting performance. I've used Gore, non-9000 Shimano, Jagwire pre black coating, Jagwire with black coating and Yokozuna cable sets. 9000 beats those. I'd run it if the only color it came in was orange.


Technically what's so different to all the other cables/housing out there? What does Shimano know the other manufactures don't know?


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

dracula said:


> Technically what's so different to all the other cables/housing out there? What does Shimano know the other manufactures don't know?


Pretty much everyone was using PTFE coatings for lower friction on their higher-end cables. About three years ago Shimano came out with a new, non-PTFE coated cable that they claim reduces shifting effort/friction by ~40%.


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

ibericb said:


> Pretty much everyone was using PTFE coatings for lower friction on their higher-end cables. About two years ago Shimano came out with a new, non-PTFE coated cable that they claim reduces shifting effort/friction by ~40%.


I am not questioning it works as long as people report good results.

What makes me wonder: does anyone know what physical 'unit' Shimano relies on for friction? I mean 40% less friction is a meaningless proposition. I have seen it when manufactures claim '30% better stiffness' but don't tell you what and how they measure stiffness in the first place.

Edit: and if people know come up with 'friction does not have units'. But it would be interesting to know what was the friction coefficient number in the first place. I mean 40% of what?


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

dracula said:


> I am not questioning it works as long as people report good results.
> 
> What makes me wonder: does anyone know what physical 'unit' Shimano relies on for friction? I mean 40% less friction is a meaningless proposition. I have seen it when manufactures claim '30% better stiffness' but don't tell you what and how they measure stiffness in the first place.
> 
> Edit: and if people know come up with 'friction does not have units'. But it would be interesting to know what was the friction coefficient number in the first place. I mean 40% of what?


The only ting I've seen are dimensionless graphs. See the Shimano catalog here, page 15 for the three graphs. The associated text reads:
"_The secret is a new polymer coating that reduces friction. Used together with the RD-9000,this smooth-operating cable reduces shifting effort an amazing 47% compared to our previous cable.
Reduce the sliding resistance to achieve lighter and quick shifting and braking operation"_


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

It can be done with good results.

If you peel apart the new dura-ace housings, you will not find a new technology of making housings. What you will find though is SP-41 Special Grease.

http://www.amazon.com/Shimano-SIS-SP41-Shift-Cable-Grease/dp/B001GSSNCM

This picture shows it as cable grease, my little tub says special grease.

Anyway, this is what's inside of the housings that works with the polymer cables, works with all cables if you ask me.

The way it's shown in their training videos and the way we do it is to use a dental syringe: http://www.amazon.com/Ezy-Care-Dental-Irrigating-Syringe/dp/B000FQ5N1A. Fill up the syringe with the grease and squirt some in the housing entrance before putting the cable in. As you pull the cable through it will distribute over the cable and through the housing. Just wipe off any excess at the end when done before securing.

So just use this grease in the jagwire housing and things should be fine.


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

MMsRepBike said:


> It can be done with good results.
> 
> If you peel apart the new dura-ace housings, you will not find a new technology of making housings. What you will find though is SP-41 Special Grease.
> 
> ...


Interesting. 

However, the funny thing are the Amazon reviews:

==
By Noel on April 13, 2013
Verified Purchase
This product when left standing separates into a paste and an oil which requires mixing before applying to the shifter cables. I've have not noticed any significant improvement in gear shifting or cable function. There also doesn't appear to be any reduction in the amount of lever pressure required to change gears.
==


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

dracula said:


> Interesting.
> 
> However, the funny thing are the Amazon reviews:
> 
> ...


The separating doesn't bother me. I'm not surprised at the lack of perception of a difference though. 40% change from the very little force required to shift a Shimano system would be..... very little change indeed. Now, assuming that we're comparing the special lubed cables to other good quality cables, I think you're comparing "very, very, very little friction" to "very, very, very, very little friction". 

I'm not saying some among us wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Or, without meaning to insult anyone, "think" they feel a difference because of placebo effect. But I'm saying that only the very perceptive would feel the difference, and I'd go out on a limb and say whether you perceive it or not, it's meaningless at the beginning and likely less meaningful about 1/4 into the lifespan of your cables. Dare I say, it might be a factual statement and still be largely, if not completely, marketing, not functional?

If I can find the grease though, I'll give it a try out of curiousity, especially if it could be used for other light grease purposes.


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## octave (May 11, 2014)

Camilo said:


> I think you're comparing "very, very, very little friction" to "very, very, very, very little friction".
> .


friction.

so i went ahead and installed the jagwire road pro brake and shifter housing with dura ace 9000 cables on my new scott addict. the drive train is brand new and consists of:

Dura Ace 9000 shifters, 53/39 crankset, front derailleur, short cage rear derailleur.
Ultegra 6800 11-28 cassette, chain, brakes.

i installed everything, tuned it up, then went into my LBS for derailleur fine-tuning just to be sure it was all spot-on. verdict:

braking = fantastic
front shifting = fantastic
rear shifting = fantastic when going up the cassette (i.e. to more teeth) not so good when going down the cassette (to less teeth). it hesitates for a split second. 

two thoughts on this hesitation: 1.) friction in the cable housing causing it to lag when tension is slackened on cable. the shift when the cable is pulled tighter is slick and crisp, but maybe the force of the pull is great enough to overcome the bit of friction that is great enough to cause the hesitation when the derailleur tries to move with the slack of a loosened cable. 2.) i need to play with the barrel adjuster and slacken the cable a tiny bit. i only rode 10 minutes home from the shop and did not have time to experiment.

i will experiment more on my ride tomorrow and report back. in the meantime: thoughts?

o


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

adjustment maybe a touch too tight usually first thought for that symptom??


How long is the last loop of housing?? Let's see a pic?


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Sounds like the barrel adjuster on the rear mech needs a quarter turn clockwise.


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

Camilo said:


> I'm not saying some among us wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Or, without meaning to insult anyone, "think" they feel a difference because of placebo effect. But I'm saying that only the very perceptive would feel the difference, and I'd go out on a limb and say whether you perceive it or not, it's meaningless at the beginning and likely less meaningful about 1/4 into the lifespan of your cables. Dare I say, it might be a factual statement and still be largely, if not completely, marketing, not functional?
> 
> If I can find the grease though, I'll give it a try out of curiousity, especially if it could be used for other light grease purposes.



One thought. 

As with the grease on a new chain which is is simply the best, and no aftermarket grease is able to reproduce that new chain grease feeling.


It may be the same with the Shimano aftermarket special cable grease and only a factory new cable/housing set will deliver according to specs.


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## octave (May 11, 2014)

i gave the derailleur barrel adjuster a small clockwise turn and the shifting got smoother. although it was still never as smooth as my old Campagnolo Chorus 11-speed set-up (which was also using Jagwire Road Pro housing with Campagnolo cables) or the Ultegra 6800 stuff i test rode that had, i believe, the Shimano housing and cables.

the shifting wasn't bad at all, mind you, but to me it is clear that the Jagwire stuff is not on par with Shimano's stuff. strange because it worked so well with Campagnolo.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

octave said:


> ...strange because it worked so well with Campagnolo.


Same bike, same cable routing?


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

octave said:


> i gave the derailleur barrel adjuster a small clockwise turn and the shifting got smoother. although it was still never as smooth as my old Campagnolo Chorus 11-speed set-up (which was also using Jagwire Road Pro housing with Campagnolo cables) or the Ultegra 6800 stuff i test rode that had, i believe, the Shimano housing and cables.
> 
> the shifting wasn't bad at all, mind you, but to me it is clear that the Jagwire stuff is not on par with Shimano's stuff. strange because it worked so well with Campagnolo.



I think there is something wrong. Whenever I install a new Jagwire Racer Cable set I often experience misshifts because the ever so slightest tapping on the levers triggers a shift.


How did you cut the cable housing? Did you use a needle file to deburr the remaining swarfs around the cut area?


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

I seriously doubt that it's the internal friction arising from the innerwall of the Jagwire housing that may be causing the slow shift into smaller cogs.

It could be the routing of the housing and in combination with the not-so-perfect adjust of your derailleur. If your housing routing has a tight arc, then you may need to replace it with a bigger loop (assuming you have some leftover housing! that's why it's always better to cut too long then shorter later, then cut too short!).

I have a DA 7800 group using some Jagwire housing and cable stuff, and the shifting is quite crisp up and down the cassette.


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## octave (May 11, 2014)

ibericb--- it is true that this is a different bike. the dura ace/jagwire set-up is on a 2014 scott addict with internal cable routing. the chorus/jagwire setup was on a 2011 pinarello paris that had externally routed derailleur cables.

as for the prep and install-- everything was cut smoothly and then reamed and deburred properly. as for the cable housing length, i measured and cut everything to match the lengths of housing i removed when doing doing the upgrade to dura ace.... i may just have to play with the tuning a bit.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

octave said:


> ibericb--- it is true that this is a different bike. the dura ace/jagwire set-up is on a 2014 scott addict with internal cable routing. the chorus/jagwire setup was on a 2011 pinarello paris that had externally routed derailleur cables.
> 
> as for the prep and install-- everything was cut smoothly and then reamed and deburred properly. as for the cable housing length, i measured and cut everything to match the lengths of housing i removed when doing doing the upgrade to dura ace.... i may just have to play with the tuning a bit.


given the differences in bikes and routing you noted, I don't believe it is reasonable to directly compare the two. I would agree, you need to do some tuning.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

In my experience, shifting was very good with any cable cable/housing set when new. Shifting performance would deteriorate much more quickly with lesser sets.

If it hasn't been explained already, sticktion describes a situation where the coefficient of static friction is greater than the coefficient of sliding friction. 

Stiction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

looigi said:


> ... If it hasn't been explained already, sticktion describes a situation where the coefficient of static friction is greater than the coefficient of sliding friction.
> 
> Stiction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Close - stiction is actually the static friction which must be overcome before things start moving. It is typically higher than the sliding friction once things start sliding.


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