# Cinelli or Barco XCR build help....



## Lara9261 (Nov 11, 2014)

Hello

I am about 1 month away from ordering a new Cinelli XCR, Magic Mirror in a size small. Now after a little more research I find Barco XCR that has internal routing and a nicer cable stop downtube design. I have been in cordial conversations with a few shops online and local all conflicting suggestions on wheels, group set and finishing kit. My goal is to keep it under 7.3 KG with a reasonable budget of 8-9K (US). Below are some of the suggestions.

SRAM RED, Mavic R sys and 3T finishing kit

Campy Record with SR chain and SR or SRAM cassette, Bora 35mm and Cinelli neos kit (Dream Build) way over budget...

SRAM ETAP, Fulcrum Racing Zero Competizione, Deda finishing kit

I am curious to see if there are any other reasonable build options?

Any XCR owners chime in please...

Angel


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## Lara9261 (Nov 11, 2014)




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## exracer (Jun 6, 2005)

Nice, don't have a XCR frame but have an older Paramount that I need to rebuild. Wasn't going to go as nice as your build because it wasn't going to be my primary ride. A lot of people on here will say "since you have a Italian bike, you have to go Campy". Can't argue with that. Campy is nice stuff.

Was thinking about Chorus or Record myself but had not gotten around to bar, stem, seat post yet. As far as wheels, there are so many good wheelsets out there now; even though I've never had a set of pre-built wheelsets on any of my road bikes. Zipp, Reynolds, Alto Cycling (very nice hubs), Campy, Hed and any number of others. Anything but Mavic. Mavic is overpriced overrated mediocre stuff. They are not even on my list. Even thinking about getting some carbon rims and lacing them to some Tune hubs as an option.

Right now I'm on some Industry Nine hubs laced to some Archetypes that do me just fine and I don't have to worry about any proprietary nonsense like with Mavic. Have a 3T stem and bar on my current bike. May go 3T when ever I get around to building up the Paramount


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## Lara9261 (Nov 11, 2014)

I could not agree with you more on the Mavic wheels, I am just not feeling them. I really like the campy wheels but so expensive. We will see what happens soon with this build. I am also not feeling SRAM red either. I would rather 9100 or Record. If I go this route the weight penalty is significant. Red is almost .5 lbs lighter. I need a bucket full of Italian parts with this build..


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Campag Chorus 11s. Boyd wheels, if you want deeper rim carbon fiber...otherwise White Industry hubs and your choice of alloy rims.

Use all the saved money to buy good beer or wine for the cabin fever season.


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## Lara9261 (Nov 11, 2014)

You are almost on point, I am thinking the following.
Record with SR cassette and chain, Shamals or custom Kinlin 31's or velocities deep V with CK or WI. 

Are there any other wheels with G3 spoke pattern other than Campy and Fulcrum?


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Lara9261 said:


> You are almost on point, I am thinking the following.
> Record with SR cassette and chain, Shamals or custom Kinlin 31's or velocities deep V with CK or WI.
> 
> Are there any other wheels with G3 spoke pattern other than Campy and Fulcrum?


Only boutique 2:1 wheels I know of are Campag AKA Fulcrum. Catch with them, they use bizarro parts that aren't cheap and need ordered in. You break a spoke you have to order a $50USD spoke "kit".

The one catch with Campagnolo of any tier.... is that the consumables are *stupid expensive* for high-mileage rigs and riders. The SR cassette having Ti cogs it'll wear out faster. There is no SR chain, only record--but barring sales it too ain't cheap. US retail....a Campag SR cassette is $300USD, and a chain is $70 each, barring sales. Even a Chorus cassette is $120USD online retail and chain is $50USD.


...whereas a Shimano cassette is $50USD online and a SRAM 11s chain I can get at the LBS for $20USD tomorrow at 9AM....also the SRAM chain comes with a PowerLink and doesn't need a bizzarro peening chainlink tool.


Another option for the money to consider for the $$$$...Di2. Consumables are cheap, and Ultegra Di2 is cheaper than eTap--and for setup and debugging expertise locally and online is far more common for Di2. My Seven Axiom SL roadie has Chorus 11s mech, and my Ti gravel grinder rig (built last spring) has Di2. Love riding both, don't get me wrong. I built my Axiom SL before Di2 was a thing..but the cost of Campag consumables gets annoying real quick if you're mega-miles yearly, especially since you basically have to order them in as no one stocks them locally....and even if they did-the cost would be more stupid expensive and not less.


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## Lara9261 (Nov 11, 2014)

Electronic is not an option on this frame, the routing is external with braze on stops on the headtube and chain stays. I have UltrgraDi2 in another bike and I do like it, But I am going back to mechanical. I am almost convinced on Chorus or Record with Bora 35 and a 3T finishing kit? It will weight over 16.5 lbs. Not exactly what I wanted but it will look stunning. I have another bike with Veloce 10s and it rattles much more than my Di2.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

Lara9261 said:


> I am thinking the following. Record with SR cassette and chain


These are two items that bring virtually nothing to the party other than shaving a few grams at extreme cost (particularly the cassette). Ti cogs wear faster and cost a lot more, while not improving shifting in any way.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

I happen to have 2 "XCR" bikes 
One is Cinelli XCR, other is Casati Inox 99
Both are considered sized between an "xsmall" and a "small" (they're custom sized to me, a $300 option).

Here are some of my thoughts, in no particular order.
I can tell you right now that you'll be hard pressed to get it down to 16 lbs flat. My Casati is a few ounces over 16 lbs with latest Ultegra Di2 8050, Time pedals, and DA C24 clinchers. The Cinelli is a hair over 17 lbs with the old the old DA 7900 group and Easton Aero55 (55mm) tubular wheels & tires.

It's good that you're aware of Cicli Barco! From my understanding, Cicli Barco is in fact the actual builder of the Cinelli XCR frame. I believe Cinelli only paints it, that's about it. Going with Barco will also gives you a lot more options in color scheme, electronics, and maybe even disc brake (if you want). If I were you, I would consider Barco if you want other color scheme, unless you're bent on buying the name "Cinelli" (which was my case) and chrome.

Another thing is, why are you so obsessed with a target weight of 16 lbs to the point that you're willing to go to some esoteric route like picking a chain? Both of my bikes weight about 1.1-1.2 lbs apart, and I can absolutely say that I have never felt like one is heavier nor lighter than the other once I start pedaling them. If you want light weight, go get carbon frame, much easier.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

never heard of barco, looks nice


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Barco is a high end builder, both for its own label and others (in this case Cinelli). I've seen a few Barco in Taiwan, all high end bikes. Barco XCR and Cinelli XCR are very similar in price in the US. I believe there is only 1 official Barco seller in the US (located in NY), and maybe 2-3 offical Cinelli XCR sellers (one of them being Wrench Science). These are rare bikes for sure. I'm in Socal where lots of people play with nice bikes (both carbon and metal) and I've never seen any XCR steel bike other than myself. 

One thing that Barco gives is the internal routing option. This does make the bike look cleaner, and you may also get the option to go with either mechanical or electronic. With Cinelli, it's only external routing, and that means mechanical shifting only. Another plus for internal routing is that the rear brake cable won't ping against your top tube (not a big deal since a few small rubber grommets place around the cable solve this.

Ok, but compared to the Casati Inox, the Cinelli isn't as aesthetic in the welding. Cinelli uses TIG welding, and the welding is small but it's not filed smooth. You can tell there's a welding there. The Casati uses braze and it's filed down smooth. This may or may not be important to you, but I personally think the Casati has superior aesthetic here. The paint job on the Casati is also more exotic, I got pearlescence gray which is a gray base with metallic purple shimming under the sun, very unique. You can't get custom paint with Cinelli, but with Barco, I think you can get pretty much anything custom (as long as you're willing to pay). 

I'm not sure how defintely are you on getting the Cinelli in chrome, but personally if I were to do it over, I would give Barco a serious consideration due to more options available on the Barco. Granted you'd probably have to pay for additional options, but IMO a bike in this price range should be a unique bike if you have the option to make it unique. If Cinelli had offered custom paint option, I'd have definitely paid to get it.

I got both my frames from outside the US, the Cinelli from Hungary seller and Casati from Singaporean seller, both official distributors, so my prices were lower than what a US seller would be able to give. But, buying from overseas is not a thing for everyone, and wait time for my Cinelli was much longer then I anticipated due to Xmas season at the time. Italians take long Xmas breaks, and then after Xmas, Cinelli's only painter got sick so basically their production got delayed for everyone. Took like 4-5 months to get my Cinelli, but glad i did.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

r&a carries cinelli. although they don't stock the xcr they told me it could easily be ordered.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Trek_5200 said:


> r&a carries cinelli. although they don't stock the xcr they told me it could easily be ordered.


yep that was the case with Wrench Science too. And the seller from Hungary was same case. I don't think this frame is stocked by any distributor, and the factory probably doesn't start building until you put down a deposit (50% in my case).


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## Lara9261 (Nov 11, 2014)

I thought long and hard about the Barco, but wanted something with a history, as absurd as that sounds. The US Cinelli dealer had a small Magic mirror and I pulled the trigger at wrench science. So far it’s setup as follows. 

Campy record
Bora 35 
3T kit 
Alliante saddle 
Stages 
Vitoria corsa G 

Can’t wait, so excited


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Lara9261 said:


> I thought long and hard about the Barco, but wanted something with a history, as absurd as that sounds. The US Cinelli dealer had a small Magic mirror and I pulled the trigger at wrench science. So far it’s setup as follows.
> 
> Campy record
> Bora 35
> ...


nice. Post it when you get it.

Wait, what fork did you get? The Columbus Minimal or the Columbus Tusk straight or something else?


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Lara9261 said:


> I thought long and hard about the Barco, but wanted something with a history, as absurd as that sounds. The US Cinelli dealer had a small Magic mirror and I pulled the trigger at wrench science. So far it’s setup as follows.
> 
> Campy record
> Bora 35
> ...


I don't blame you. I ended up going a different direction but looked into that frame myself. Seems really nice.


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## Andreas_Illesch (Jul 9, 2002)

Lara9261 said:


> I thought long and hard about the Barco, but wanted something with a history, as absurd as that sounds.


Cinelli may be more well known but Cicli Barco is actually older, although only by one year.


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## Lara9261 (Nov 11, 2014)

aclinjury said:


> nice. Post it when you get it.
> 
> Wait, what fork did you get? The Columbus Minimal or the Columbus Tusk straight or something else?


I am getting the minimal fork the frame comes with. I have read of another owner with a XCR who had to changed the fork. Stating to much flex at high speed cornering. I hope I dont feel the same?


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Lara9261 said:


> I am getting the minimal fork the frame comes with. I have read of another owner with a XCR who had to changed the fork. Stating to much flex at high speed cornering. I hope I dont feel the same?


well I have the Minimal, and I don't feel it flex to the point where I'm like "oh sh8t my bike is moving sideway!". Not at all. I'm 120 lbs and I've laid down some 900w peak on this. (And for those heavier guys who think 900w is nothing, please understand that for a 120lb rider to put down that sort of watt, he needs to wring the sh*t out of the bike to keep his feet planted into the pedals.) 

However, Columbus also offered the Tusk straight and now the Tusk has evolved into the Futura SL Caliper (also straight). Columbus has discontinued the Tusk, but they are still out there in stock with the sellers. Columbus claim that the Tusk and Futura SL Caliper offer more stiffness and better tracking, if you believe into that stuff. So you might want to get either the Tusk straight or Futura if that's an option for you. 

However, also keep in mind that the Tusk and Futura are also of the integrated designed, and that means their crown diameter is wider than the traditional Minimal fork. Also, the Futura can accept wider 28mm tires, but seriously, 25mm tires are all you need, and both Tusk and Minimal accept 25mm tires with plenty room to spare. Also, the "aesthetic" of your bike will also change with the Tusk/Futura as they will look a little bigger than the headtube junction, and depending on your taste, this burlier look may or may not be an important factor in a classic steel bike.

Myself, I'm considering swapping out my Minimal to the straight blade Tusk. Not that I have issue with control or flex, I just want a different look! The Tusk is painted glossy black which would match my glossy black frame a lot better than the current 3k-weave look of the Minimal fork.

If you want a straight blade, stiffer fork (if you believe it matters), then get the Tusk or Futura now. Don't waste money by getting an Enve fork later! Columbus fork on the Cinelli XCR is more original.


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

Lara9261 said:


> I thought long and hard about the Barco, but wanted something with a history, as absurd as that sounds. The US Cinelli dealer had a small Magic mirror and I pulled the trigger at wrench science. So far it’s setup as follows.
> 
> Campy record
> Bora 35
> ...


Seriously swish bike. Stainless frames are extremely rare, I've only seen one in my life. Record and Italian everything is certainly the way to go with this frame. The Bora 35s were a good choice as I really don't like deep section wheels with steel frames.


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## Lara9261 (Nov 11, 2014)

SO I am two weeks away form delivery on the C-XCR, cant wait.

I made a few changes to the spec sheet, going with the following.

3T Ergonova team stealth
3T ARX 2 stem team stealth
3T Stylus stem team stealth
Michelin power endurance 25mm tires 
Fizik Aliante R1 black
Fizik endurance tape.
Record Stages power meter
Chris King head set
17 lbs. no pedals no cages

Man this is going to be one sweet ride.....
The guys at Wrench Science are awesome at what they do...
Decided against the Vitoria Corsa tires, gum walls wont look good here.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

You really want the Vittoria Corsa G+ tires. I started using them this year and they are the nicest tire I've ever ridden on -- and I've been doing this for a while. 

I'm a custom wheel guy myself, but I recently strayed on my last bike and bought Campy Neutrons. I've been really pleased with them and they were fairly cheap (got them from Ribble). I might change my tune if I break a spoke, but so far, so good. They're light and handle nice. 

Are you getting the frame painted? The all chrome look isn't my thing -- kind of like titanium -- a bit boring. I like the painted one in one of the pics above -- although not black. Please post some pics when you get done. That's a hell of a nice bike.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

pmf said:


> You really want the Vittoria Corsa G+ tires. I started using them this year and they are the nicest tire I've ever ridden on -- and I've been doing this for a while.
> 
> I'm a custom wheel guy myself, but I recently strayed on my last bike and bought Campy Neutrons. I've been really pleased with them and they were fairly cheap (got them from Ribble). I might change my tune if I break a spoke, but so far, so good. They're light and handle nice.
> 
> Are you getting the frame painted? The all chrome look isn't my thing -- kind of like titanium -- a bit boring. I like the painted one in one of the pics above -- although not black. Please post some pics when you get done. That's a hell of a nice bike.


OP's bike will look similar to the one in the last pic he posted. It's chrome with black.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Lara9261 said:


> SO I am two weeks away form delivery on the C-XCR, cant wait.
> 
> I made a few changes to the spec sheet, going with the following.
> 
> ...


Mine is about 17.5 lbs with HED Ardennes Plus wheelset and Time pedals. I think my frame (custom) is a tad smaller than yours


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## Lara9261 (Nov 11, 2014)

Well I ran into a bit of a pickle with the build. The frame shipped is a late 2016 model from what the guys at WS and I can come up with. WS starts the build and discovers the headset is 42mm not 44mm. WS contacts Cinelli and they confirm and offer a very minimal discount on the frame. The new frame is in production and wont be available until mid to late March. The revisions are as follows (44mm head tube, revised cable-stops & dropout) The head tube has been made a little wider and the cable stops are now back on the down tube, that is not a big deal to me. The dropouts are what I think is more important. The older frame has a removable derailleur hanger and the new one has a permanent redesign hanger with the Cinelli logo. It looks awesome, I think I am going to wait for the new model? The pickle is the hanger get the removable hanger that is safe and easily replaceable or get the permanent hanger that can easily be bent back to true.

See pics below..


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## Andreas_Illesch (Jul 9, 2002)

Lara9261 said:


> See pics below..


I am looking at the welds at the steering tube.
Do you really want that? At this price?


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## Lara9261 (Nov 11, 2014)

I saw the same thing, I have looked at this frame for quite some time. It’s the first one with poor quality welds. I sent it back and will patiently wait for the 2018.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

44mm headtube? It's gonna look outta whack with the rest of the bike for sure. It'll make the bike look like a cyclocross. It's ok for carbon frames to have 44mm head tube because most carbon frames also have wide top and down tube. But for a classic steel, I'll stick with the traditional 1 1/8. I have a friend who has a 44mm on his otherwise traditional steel, looks grotesque IMO. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

As for the welds, I think XCR welds all look pretty much like that, unless they braze it (like Casati). But other XCR frames from other makes have similar weld characteristic.

Well this makes me even happier that I got mine in 1 1/8 
But to be honest, if i were to do it all over, I think I'd would go with Barco. I've seen some Barco XCR from a couple folks in Taiwan and I wish Cinelli would give the same options in paint schemes.


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## Lara9261 (Nov 11, 2014)

Here are two pictures from Barco XCR welds. They build for Cinelli, I am waiting for the 2018 with much nicer drop outs.


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## Lara9261 (Nov 11, 2014)

Here is another picture from a 2018 Barco, painted with 44 head tube. Really nice build.


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## Lara9261 (Nov 11, 2014)

Well here I am 6 months later and finally I have a 2018 Cinelli XCR full polish. I am glad I waited a LONG, LONG time for this. The 44mm head tube looks great, the welds look even better and the hanger and dropouts are stunning! It a small frame 52/48mm and is weighing 16.6 lbs. with the new Dura Ace pedals. First ride impression is that it absorbs the road buzz better than my 2014 Fuji Altamira 2.1, now is it 5k better than the Fuji, dont think so. The shine in the sun is simply amazing. I will need to include a felt rag on my rides, it is a fingerprint magnet. Another preliminary impression is that it does not take much effort to bring up to cruising speed and it is very easy to maintain. Much more observations to follow in the near future as I put more miles on it. Here are some pics from the first ride.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Lara9261 said:


> Well here I am 6 months later and finally I have a 2018 Cinelli XCR full polish. I am glad I waited a LONG, LONG time for this. The 44mm head tube looks great, the welds look even better and the hanger and dropouts are stunning! It a small frame 52/48mm and is weighing 16.6 lbs. with the new Dura Ace pedals. First ride impression is that it absorbs the road buzz better than my 2014 Fuji Altamira 2.1, now is it 5k better than the Fuji, dont think so. The shine in the sun is simply amazing. I will need to include a felt rag on my rides, it is a fingerprint magnet. Another preliminary impression is that it does not take much effort to bring up to cruising speed and it is very easy to maintain. Much more observations to follow in the near future as I put more miles on it. Here are some pics from the first ride.
> View attachment 322825
> View attachment 322826
> View attachment 322827
> ...


very nice. I'm digging the 44mm headtube and the straight-blade fork! These options were not available when I got mine XCR a few years ago.


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## Lara9261 (Nov 11, 2014)

Day 2 a few food climbs in and it climbs MUCH better than all my other bikes (have 6). Cant get over how elegant it is in the sun light. Having discomfort with campy record hoods, hump at clamp before hoods. Need to make a tape bridge to even transition from bars to hoods. Straight blade stealth fork is so tight and zippy. Really digging the polish and stealth look.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

seems like you're pretty happy with the bike. After riding my bike for a few years, I'm inclined to say that its best characteristic is riding fast on the flat or rolling terrain where it seems to absorb the road best.

But since my bike is mainly all black, one thing I don't like is that every little scratch now seems to show up under bright sunlight! The black paint does scratch easily.


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## eric1971 (Oct 6, 2005)

Nice! :thumbsup:


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## Lara9261 (Nov 11, 2014)

Installed chain guard and adjusted hoods, big rides soon. Small fizik clamp saddle bag and gloss black bottles, completes the build. Funny how everyone says its titanium. Explanation to chosen few.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

will be interested in hearing your review on longer rides. I have 2 XCR type bikes, the Cinelli XCR and the Casati Inox, and i'm always interested in hearing what other xcr owners have to say about their bikes. There aren't that many xcr owners out there. For sure your bike will be unique on club rides.


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## Lara9261 (Nov 11, 2014)

I had a 70 mile ride to the Florida Keys with the group I routinely ride with. I do this route every other month or so. The ride is 30 miles of flat non stop hammer with one medium bride to climb. The XCR feels so much more comfortable than my carbon and aluminium bikes. The carbon bikes feel like riding a sharp and super stiff razor blade. The XCR feels like the characteristics of steel but with a softer edge to the road chatter that i do not get from my other bikes. SO easy to maintain a fast cruising speed and the compliment of quality components just adds to the plush feeling I get in the pack. I ask myself now is this 5k better than my Fuji (YES).. Working on my sarcastic grin when told my bike is lighter than yours... GEEZZ


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## Lara9261 (Nov 11, 2014)

I had a training ride yesterday around a cemetery near my home. I use this to train during the week, easy 20-30 miles twice a week when possible. It is usually a mental struggle to do looser laps by myself and I am constantly looking at the Garmin to see how much distance completed. The XCR was an absolute magic carpet, the miles passed by so smooth and effortless. This is the most head to head comparison I can make with my other bikes. The route has a bumpy section a smooth 1.5 mile hammer and a few hard turns. So much easier to maintain a 20 mph speed and dam the lush feeling of road chatter being nulled is such a welcoming experience. I wish there was a way to record the road chatter with the phone to compare decibels on the same route with different bikes. I am thinking of a using a recording app on the phone to record laps around the cemetery to see if I can see a difference in vibration peaks with other frame materials. Not sure where to tape the phone to achieve this? 

Here is a pic from WS post build, they butchered the weight. LMAO no way 26 lbs. its 17 with pedals, cages and Garmin mount. I think that is very reasonable for a steel road bike w/o going nutz on components. I also got another incredible remark from another rider stating "I hope that bike can respond to attacks as good as my carbon bike" Can you believe this clown.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Is this your first steel bike?

I'm lusting after a Pegoretti Marcelo, but I already have 2 nice steel bikes (Merckx Corsa 01 and a Colnago Arabesque). Is there something magic about these new stainless steel tube sets? Both my steel bikes weigh in at 20 lbs, which is just fine with me. Aside from being a bit lighter, is the ride better? I enjoyed riding the Colnago into work this morning. 

That is a nice looking bike, although I prefer some paint and traditional geometry. Kudos for choosing Campy. Part of that great ride is probably attributable to those wheels. Campy makes nice wheels. 

https://abovecategorycycling.com/bike/pegoretti-marcelo/


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

that's pretty much what I would describe the ride of my bike on flat or rolling terrain. It does hold speed very well and encourage the rider to keep on pedaling over pavement that is a little rough. It does mute out the chatters better than a stiff carbon bike.

My bike is size xs and it's under 17 lbs but this has a lot to do with me using 50mm tubular wheels. With clinchers the bike would be a tad heavier of course. Riding this with tubular is just pure joy, honestly the feeling of rolling on tubs and steel is just something you will not get from riding carbon.

As for respond to attacks, well this depends. Here's my take. From a dead-stop dig, where you would put in a massive amount of torque on the frame, then a stiff carbon bike does feel more responsive due to its stiffer platform. However, once you're rolling at say 20 mph, any attack at this speed the XCR will be able to respond NO PROBLEM. At this speed, it's mostly about being in the right gear and whether your legs have the power to spin it up.

now when I ordered my frame, I told the seller that I want the steering geometry to be a tad aggressive because I intend to use it in crits-like riding. Then designer from Cinelli sent me 3 iteration of his CAD design before I settled down on the 3rd design. As a result, my bike does dip into turn a tad faster than a typical road bike, and sprinting out of the saddle does take a few tries to get used to becasue the front will tend to fold underneath faster than sprinting on a typical road bike. This custome geometry cost another 300 bux extra but it's well worth it because it's a total custom geo. I don't intend to sell the bike so that was why I wanted to go custom geo. I only wish that I Cinelli would have offered the oversized taperd headtube back when I ordered mine.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

pmf said:


> Is this your first steel bike?
> 
> I'm lusting after a Pegoretti Marcelo, but I already have 2 nice steel bikes (Merckx Corsa 01 and a Colnago Arabesque). Is there something magic about these new stainless steel tube sets? Both my steel bikes weigh in at 20 lbs, which is just fine with me. Aside from being a bit lighter, is the ride better? I enjoyed riding the Colnago into work this morning.
> 
> ...


my old Casati Laser with Columbus SLX tubeset from the '90s weighed about 20-21 lbs. It's a nice ride. But it doesn't compare to these newer XCR- type bikes. XCR tubeset is thinner, and yet still able to be welded together, that was one of the goal of Columbus making the XCR tubeset.

In terms of weight, the OP's bike and my bike are about the same, i.e, about 17 lbs for a size S bike with top compoents. 17 lbs vs 20 lbs may not mean much when crusing on the flat. But it means something when going on fast group ride with rolling terrains and attacks. Also, the OP's bike uses an oversized heatube with a tapered straight blade fork, which means its front end should be a bit stiffer than the old traditional steel bike. 

The Cinelli XCR strikes an almost perfect balance of supple of steel and responsiveness of carbon. Cinelli gets it right here. And descending on the XCR is really a joy. You just sort of tuck down and lean around curves and grin at things around you. That's how well it tracks curves. But of course this has to do with geometry of the bike and not just material.

I also have another XCR- type bike, the Casati Inox. While it rides nice, but its more relaxed geo means that it cannot rail around curves any where as good as the Cinelli XCR. But weight wise, they all are about the same.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Thanks. I guess. 3 lbs means little to me. I have a light carbon bike. If I really worried about weight that much, I'd go on a diet, 

Comparing the Casatis -- is the XCR noticably nicer than the SLX? I know SLX bikes can be pretty heavy, but aside from that ...


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## Lara9261 (Nov 11, 2014)

I have another steel road bike, a Schwinn Sprint single speed using Reynolds 853 Chromo. While the Schwinn has no carbon parts it does have really good wheels. Custom Kinlins 35mm aluminum with white industry hubs and freewheel. The XCR has a significant advantage in ride quality and maintaining speed is so much easier. My Schwinn was my favorite ride quality bike, but dam the xcr is truly an incredible experience. Although it is still very early for me with the XCR, I can say I would buy it again, and I was on the fence with a Passoni as well. The new modifications to the 2018 Cinelli sealed the deal for me. Those dropouts and hanger is a real piece of craftsmanship and art.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

pmf said:


> Thanks. I guess. 3 lbs means little to me. I have a light carbon bike. If I really worried about weight that much, I'd go on a diet,
> 
> Comparing the Casatis -- is the XCR noticably nicer than the SLX? I know SLX bikes can be pretty heavy, but aside from that ...


here's my take between the Cinelli XCR and Casati Laser (SLX). When cruising on the flat, even when crusing speed is high in the 24-25mph range, there isn't much difference in term of effort. In terms of feel, the SLX does feel heavier and flexier whenever you stop & go at stop signs, but once up to speed above 18-20 mph, they sort of feel the same. In fact, if anything, the SLX feels a little more comfy due to its higher mass and flexier frame. In my opinion, where the Cinelli XCR shines is in fast rides with lots of acceleration and/or directional changes, as in crits or in rollering terrain where you would power thru any hill. But is this due to material of XCR or due to geometry of the Cinelli or a combo of both? Probably due to both.

But let's look at this from cost. XCR tubeset is like $600 for the builder (that's what I was told), so it's not much more than other high quality steel tubeset, right? If this is the case, then personally I'd go for XCR steel. 6-7 years ago when XCR tubeset was first released, only a few manufacturers were able to offer their bikes in XCR, but now I do see a lot more manufacturers using XCR tubeset in their highest end bikes. If you at Pegoretti, his highest end bikes uses XCR. Cyfac (a French make) is also using XCR for their high end bikes, same with Tomasinni, etc. In the US, I know Scott Quiring offers XCR-based frame starting at $2300, which IMO is a good buy for a total custom frame (I don't think you can buy an XCR frame below this price!).


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## kansukee (Jul 17, 2012)

I'm glad I found this old thread! I currently have a Cinelli SC and I have been thinking of an XCr. The SC rides incredibly smooth and part of that is the fact that I laced some NOS Ambrosio polished tubular rims to custom Curtis Odom hubs and run 25mm Veloflex. I'm a big Cinelli fan and this makes me even more sure that I do want an XCr for my next build.


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