# Do you recommend smaller frame with longer stem?



## ToffieBoi (May 1, 2011)

Hello everyone. 
I have a question about frame sizing. 

I am now riding on a Specialized Tarmac. 56cm frame (565mm horizontal top tube) with 12cm stem. -17 degree. Frame has 17cm headtube.

I am 183cm and 63kg. I have a bit longer arms, thats why I am using stem like that.

The frame is 2009 and it is time to change for a new frame, but I am not sure about the sizing yet.
I was thinking, if I need that low handlebar on the bike, I can go one size smaller, with a shorter headtube, and use 140mm stem.

I wonder, if there is anyone who does that? 
I also wonder, if there is any disadvantages on using longer stem than average.


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## SNS1938 (Aug 9, 2013)

In the past, I have been told that the small bike with a longer stem is the better option. It's lighter and stiffer, however, a longer wheel base is more stable and gives me more confidence on descents. I've been fitted by a custom frame builder, and told I should go with a 55cm frame. I went up to the 56cm tarmac rather than down to the 54cm frame to get the stability I was after.

I would definitely want to do a long demo ride on a 54cm before laying down my cash.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

140 mm is the longest stem size going. What if the 54 is still too short for you with that stem?

Also, it'll put your weight further forward relative to the front wheel. If this is all driven by your arms being disproportionately long, maybe that's fine. But it could make it harder to manual, bunny hop, loft the front wheel, etc. I realize this is a road bike forum, but I do that on my road bikes too. Think posting through a rough patch or over a pot hole or riding on and off curbs.

Are you really being limited by the head tube height?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

The difference in "reach" between the 54 & 56 is only 8mm. You might not need the 140 stem, a 130 might work fine. You can also make a +/- 1.0cm difference in reach w/ the handlebars. 
As a side note, Cav has just gone from a 52 Venge to a 49...for the same reason as you. He wanted to get lower.


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## ToffieBoi (May 1, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> The difference in "reach" between the 54 & 56 is only 8mm. You might not need the 140 stem, a 130 might work fine. You can also make a +/- 1.0cm difference in reach w/ the handlebars.
> As a side note, Cav has just gone from a 52 Venge to a 49...for the same reason as you. He wanted to get lower.


Aha. So you mean that, reach is more important than effective top tube, on the bike? 
I always considered top tube length on my bike for fit. Never thought about it, honestly.


Thanks for the other answers too.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

ToffieBoi said:


> Aha. So you mean that, reach is more important than effective top tube, on the bike?
> I always considered top tube length on my bike for fit. Never thought about it, honestly.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the other answers too.


You can't just compare ETT lengths, you need to look at the head and seat tube angles as well. That's what makes *stack* & *reach* measurements so helpful.


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## ToffieBoi (May 1, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> You can't just compare ETT lengths, you need to look at the head and seat tube angles as well. That's what makes *stack* & *reach* measurements so helpful.


Thanks for the messages.

I had some free time today, and decided to draw my bikes geometry. 
It was challenging (I didn't use autocad for 4 years) but I think I managed to do it.

Red lines represent for my current settings on bike.
Blue lines are for 2014 54cm Tarmac SL4.










So I found that, I need a 13cm stem with -4 degrees. If I use the stem without spacer under it.
When I add 5mm spacer with a -6 degree stem, its almost the same.

edit reason: better picture.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Nice job w/ the auto-cad. Makes sense now, huh? Usually changing sizes by just one size won't result in more than a cm difference in reach.


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## ToffieBoi (May 1, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> Nice job w/ the auto-cad. Makes sense now, huh? Usually changing sizes by just one size won't result in more than a cm difference in reach.


I can say that, my all knowledge about the bike sizes was a lie 
Thanks to your post here, I decided to draw the frames and check the dimensions.


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