# So, about the Archon...



## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

So, when's the Archon coming out and how much does it cost?


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## skepticman (Dec 25, 2005)

I don't know if this is still accurate. You could try contacting Litespeed directly or a local dealer.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2007/features/sea_otter_307

"Litespeed will produce the Archon in both traditional and compact frame geometries, and US$4500 will buy you a frame with an Easton EC90SL full carbon fork beginning sometime in June."

If you want titanium, I recommend test riding a Moots Vamoots before spending that kind of money on a Litespeed. You should also consider a Lynskey, Eriksen or Strong.

For carbon frames, I'd rather have a Parlee, Cyfac, LOOK or Orbea for less money.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Thanks. 

For that kind of money, Litespeed can keep it.

Heck, I can get a Time Ulteam or a custom Moots Compact SL for that kind of cash. Why would I buy a Litespeed?!?


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## Litemike (Nov 1, 2005)

*I hear you.*

SEVEN ELIUM = 3999
MOOTS SL = 3350
LEGEND TI 3650
SOON TO BE DATED LOOKING (LIKE ALL LS PRODUCTS) ARCHON = 4500
I wish Litespeed would just make a normal freakin' bike with normal freaking tubes, not some kitchen widget looking ginsu.


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## Juanmoretime (Nov 24, 2001)

FondriestFan said:


> Thanks.
> 
> For that kind of money, Litespeed can keep it.
> 
> Heck, I can get a Time Ulteam or a custom Moots Compact SL for that kind of cash. Why would I buy a Litespeed?!?


Because you like and it its the right fit. Litespeed is not the huge giant bike manufacturer that people make it out to be. They just have been around longer than almost anybody. I have toured their factory and they have sped up the process to making frames but there are not any robots making frames just people.. The first thing you notice as you pull up to thier building is all the bike racks on cars with bikes on them in the parking lot. Not only do they ride, talking to the people working inside they are very passionate about what they do. On a busy day they may make about 60 frames which is no very much compared to Giant, Trek or any of the plastic bike houses in Asia.

Brand is nothing and anybody that purchases by brand over fit is just not making wise choices. While I do admit I own a few Litespeeds my current main ride is not but it is still titanium. I still feel they make a fine product.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Thanks for the reply, Juanmoretime.

Nothing against Litespeed. I absolutely loved my Pisgah. I never had a single problem with it.

I just think the pricing's ridiculous. That's it. And I disagree that brand doesn't matter. Of course it matters. Some brands have more quality than others. 

$4,500 for a Litespeed frame/fork? Come on. These are the same people who came up with the Pavia, a standard Taiwanese carbon frame that they tried to pass on as some uber-quality machine.

LIke I said, I like Litespeed. I'd like an Archon. But for that price, they can sell it to someone else.


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## teoteoteo (Sep 8, 2002)

FondriestFan said:


> So, when's the Archon coming out and how much does it cost?


If they haven't shipped some already they will be shipping in the next week. The bike sure isn't made for everyone's taste or their pocket book. It will be a step forward in the stiffness to weight catagory I suspect in terms of all titanium brands.


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## clgtide1 (Jul 24, 2002)

It is a great looking frame. They had two built up at the Litespeed party during the Chattanooga stop of the TDG. I hope to test ride one this Summer...


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## TiDreaming (Jul 20, 2007)

Im about to buy the Archon..why fork out all that money you ask??

Geometry, ride quality and Craftsmanship. Its pretty simple. You get what you pay for in this world. How many manufacturers offer a LIFETIME warranty.


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## toyota (Sep 4, 2006)

TiDreaming said:


> Im about to buy the Archon..why fork out all that money you ask??
> 
> Geometry, ride quality and Craftsmanship. Its pretty simple. You get what you pay for in this world. How many manufacturers offer a LIFETIME warranty.


 almost all of them do.


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## TiDreaming (Jul 20, 2007)

toyota said:


> almost all of them do.


I guess I should be more specific, when you buy titanium its meant too last hence lifetime warranties, alu/carbon/steel all have limited warranties from manufacturers. Hence you pay for longevity and craftsmanship.. As I said you pay for what you get..


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## toyota (Sep 4, 2006)

TiDreaming said:


> I guess I should be more specific, when you buy titanium its meant too last hence lifetime warranties, alu/carbon/steel all have limited warranties from manufacturers. Hence you pay for longevity and craftsmanship.. As I said you pay for what you get..


almost every manufacturer has a lifetime warranty no matter what the material.


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## Juanmoretime (Nov 24, 2001)

toyota said:


> almost every manufacturer has a lifetime warranty no matter what the material.


Actually not true. Lifetime warranties which used to be the norm are going away with the Uberlight carbon bikes. Check Cannondale, Dean. Douglas, Scott and other bike manufacturers websites and you will see warranites in the 3 to 5 year range.


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## ibhim (Oct 28, 2002)

toyota said:


> almost every manufacturer has a lifetime warranty no matter what the material.


And the Italian frames warranty is on the other side of the "lifetime" spectrum. Colnago worldwide 1 year but last I checked, US distributor 'graciously' extended to 2 years. DeRosa doesn't even address warranty on worldwide or US sites (not certain with the recent change in distributor to Trailtir. They may bring in line with their other manufacturers). Bianchi may be the exception with a longer warranty as the LBS told me 'lifetime' but I haven't seen it in writing.

Then again, you could have the "lifetime" warranty on an Airbourne frame which subsequently went out of business. Lifetime means life of the business, not how long you own the frame.


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## Mark McM (Jun 18, 2005)

*Warranties are marketting tools, not quality guarantees*



TiDreaming said:


> I guess I should be more specific, when you buy titanium its meant too last hence lifetime warranties, alu/carbon/steel all have limited warranties from manufacturers. Hence you pay for longevity and craftsmanship.. As I said you pay for what you get..


A warranty is a marketing tool, not a guarantee of quality. Even the lates Schwinn Varsity (sold by Walmart for about $200) has a lifetime warranty. Does that mean the the Varsity has better longevity and craftsmanship than a Scott CR1, which sells for $5500 (more than 25 times more than the Schwinn Varsity), but only has a 5 year warranty? The Scott CR1 was the top rated model in a recent EFBe fatigue test, so why does it only have a 5 year warranty? Because the warranty is a sales enticement, not a guarantee of quality.


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## Mark McM (Jun 18, 2005)

*A "bike to last a lifetime" and life-time warranties*



TiDreaming said:


> I guess I should be more specific, when you buy titanium its meant too last hence lifetime warranties, alu/carbon/steel all have limited warranties from manufacturers. Hence you pay for longevity and craftsmanship.. As I said you pay for what you get..


I have to disagree on two of your points:

There really is no such thing as a high-end frame to last a lifetime. Not that there is anything wrong with the frames themselves, but the standards for the normal wear-and-tear components change every few years, so a frame can become obsolete simply because there are no more standard replacement parts for it. In the early '90s, Merlin strongly promoted their frames as "the last frame you'll ever need to buy". But these frames used proprietary pressed in BBs (which are no longer available) and 1" forks (which are become scarce). So odds are, you will in fact have to buy another frame. In the mountain bike world it is even worse - I've had two perfectly good frames become nearly obsolete due to to dissappearing availability of suspension forks with the appropriately sized steerer tube (one had a 1 1/4" head tube, the other had 1" headtube).

And as far as warranties and materials: Frames of all the common bicycle materials (steel, aluminum, carbon, titanium) can have life-time warranties, depending more on the manufacturer/distributor than on the material itself. For example, all Trek frames (which are now all primarily aluminum, carbon, or both) have life-time warranties. For decades, all the low end Huffys, Murrays, Columbias, etc. that were made out of steel carried life-time warranties on their frames. Contrast that with some titanium frames, which have limited term warranties.

As I mentioned in my previous post, warranties are primarily sales tools. Apparantly, it has worked on you, since you have equated a warranty with quality and value.

(On the other hand, one factor in my purchase of a Litespeed Ghisallo was the life-time warranty. Not that I did not take the warranty to mean that the frame was actually going to be durable enough to last a life-time. Quite the contrary - I rather expect such a very lightweight frame to eventually fatigue and break. In which case I expect to have to use the warranty to fix or replace this very expensive frame. On the other hand, I was less concerned about the 3 year warranty on my purchase of a Surly Cross Check, because I very much expect that frame to last a very long time.)


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## TiDreaming (Jul 20, 2007)

This has kinda got a way from the main point which is Litepseed bikes are expensive because there is time, effort and craftsmanship involved in making each frame.

I don't know about in the US, but here in Australia, I have yet come across a major/minor manufacturer that offers a lifetime warranty. I take the point that the warranty is only as good as the manufacturer staying in business. Litepseed certainly has been around long enough to gain my confidence.

I have ridden many bikes, I still have a Gios and Colnago (Alu and Steel )in my stable, they only came with a 3 year warranty when I bought them almost 10 years ago and they are still pretty much pristine. So warranty was never a major marketing tool to draw me in, rather the "prestige" and the reputation of the brand. People are kidding themselves if they say they are not influenced by these factors. But remember it is these factors which have been gained through ride/comfort/geometry experience. Its just I also get the the extra benefit of knowing that anything should happen through "normal wear and tear" I do have some recourse.


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## tankengine (Nov 27, 2007)

I dont know but this would be my dream bike. Stron, stiff and most importantly trustworthy.


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## socrates (Sep 1, 2006)

I think Fondreistfan is looking at things the wrong way. Strong. Moots etc are really no better than Litespeed, Merlin etc. Just that everyone has their own likes and dislikes and if a guy wants to pay big money for an Archon then so be it. It must be the bike he wants and that he will be happy with. No point in someone else telling him to buy a make he wont be happy with.


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