# Was told by an old Campagnolo dealer that 11spd simply doesn't work



## jazclrint

I went to a Campy Pro-Shop the other day and was told flat out that 11 speed doesn't work. he said before 11 speed the shop was 80% Campy. They sell all high end bikes $2000-$10,000 with Red, both Di2s, ect. I read through this board last night and asked the Campy rep about it today. I can't try to sell people on Campy 11 if there is a problem, or I sell them unrealistic expectations.

What I got was that basically mechanics need to read the direction. Modern equipment, especially 11 speed has tolerances so tight that you can't just bolt it on and send it out the door. Time must be taken the first time to set everything up right. Which is pretty much the general consensus here. However, I am not sure they take the internal routing issue with as much seriousness as they should. He said there were some problems with smaller frames with internal routing, specifically Cervelos. But I think they are missing the point. Even my friend who has 12,000 miles on his Chorus 11 said that it is fussy, and it works best when it's fairly warm outside. I am certain there are work arounds, but may involve aftermarket cable systems. I'm not sure.

One interesting thing in the 2012 tech manual was a test using a 1 kg weight to test the drag in the rd cable. Poking the head of RD cable out the bottom of the shifter attach the weight, somehow. Then you play with the levers somehow, its poorly translated. Anyway, the result is that if the RD can pull the 1 kg weight up, then you should have no problems.

How often do you 11 speed owners need to adjust your drivetrain? Was it just the first 500-1000 miles that was a pain? What do you all think?


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## willieboy

I'm running SR11 for about 5,000 miles and have zero adjustments. Crisp, precise, smooth and super quiet. Guess my shop knows what they're doing. Wouldn't trade it for anything.


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## ejprez

That's really a hard one to figure out. A shop that dealt primarily campy and says 11 speed doesn't work. I have Chorus 11 on my road and tt bike (internal routing), and both shift great. The road is an SL3 tarmac. I think maybe some frames that are internal will have issue cause of the way the cables enter, like Felt ar1, cervelo s series or blue ac1 models. I really didn't find it that much more finicky to setup than shimano or sram, myabe a hair more, but once set it's been great ever since. Been happy when I switched from Sram Red.


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## SwiftSolo

ejprez said:


> That's really a hard one to figure out. A shop that dealt primarily campy and says 11 speed doesn't work. I have Chorus 11 on my road and tt bike (internal routing), and both shift great. The road is an SL3 tarmac. I think maybe some frames that are internal will have issue cause of the way the cables enter, like Felt ar1, cervelo s series or blue ac1 models. I really didn't find it that much more finicky to setup than shimano or sram, myabe a hair more, but once set it's been great ever since. Been happy when I switched from Sram Red.


I think that "not working" may well mean not working financially for the shop. I can see that as a legitimate claim.


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## Got Time

jazclrint said:


> One interesting thing in the 2012 tech manual was a test using a 1 kg weight to test the drag in the rd cable. Poking the head of RD cable out the bottom of the shifter attach the weight, somehow. Then you play with the levers somehow, its poorly translated. Anyway, the result is that if the RD can pull the 1 kg weight up, then you should have no problems.


There's a video showing how it's done: you don't "play with the levers", you move the rear derailleur a bit up and check that it smoothly moves back when you let it go.

I used this method on one of my 11speed bikes because it didn't shift properly into the smallest cog. It seems all the friction is in the shifter (Record). It works fine with my Chorus setup. I'm not really sure what's wrong with this; it works now better after I dis- and reassembled the cables/housing, but not as fast as the other shifts.

Except for that one problem, the 11speed shifting is better than with both of my 10speed bikes (also 1 Record and 1 Chorus).


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## jazclrint

SwiftSolo said:


> I think that "not working" may well mean not working financially for the shop. I can see that as a legitimate claim.


He may have meant that as well, but he said straight up 11 speed doesn't work, and that until Campy admits there is a problem and fixes it, he will continue to have customers move to SRAM or Di2. He told me how when it first came out he had to send groupsets back to make the customers happy. Personally I think ESP is Campy's ultimate answerr. But there are plenty of people for whom 11 spd is working, so clrealy it's not a cut and dry issue.


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## jazclrint

Got Time said:


> There's a video showing how it's done: you don't "play with the levers", you move the rear derailleur a bit up and check that it smoothly moves back when you let it go.
> 
> I used this method on one of my 11speed bikes because it didn't shift properly into the smallest cog. It seems all the friction is in the shifter (Record). It works fine with my Chorus setup. I'm not really sure what's wrong with this; it works now better after I dis- and reassembled the cables/housing, but not as fast as the other shifts.
> 
> Except for that one problem, the 11speed shifting is better than with both of my 10speed bikes (also 1 Record and 1 Chorus).


Do you know the link to that video? That would be awesome!


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## zamboni

I had my SR11 for last four years 5K miles and no problem what so ever, this was the first year release and they were the best grouppo out there.


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## Salsa_Lover

The Campy Pro-shop in mechanics my city didn't know the right method to close the 11speed chain

They said they had done dozens like that ( wrong )

Imagine how do they know to setup the whole thing.

I guess that particular LBS mechanics just need to learn to work better.


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## vaetuning

*New 2011 Campy 11sp.*

Introduction:
I presently own 2 bikes with Campy 11.

1 x Roubaix SL2 S-Works / 2011 Chorus 11sp. - external cable routing. ridden for 2200km. - NO problems whatsoever!

1 x Roubaix SL3 S-works / 2011 SR Titan 11sp. - internal cable routing. ridden for 3600km. - NO problems whatsoever!

I have installed more than 10 various groups, Athena, Chorus, Super Record, of the 2011 line, on customer’s bikes. - NO problems whatsoever!!

I previously owned an, externally routed, 2009 SR 11sp. group. ridden for 4500km.
Had to adjust & readjust from time to time, the entire 4500km I rode it!!

I have, pre 2011, installed 2 groups of the 2009 line on customer’s bikes.
And yes - you guessed it - they have problems with unaccurate shifting, and frequent readjusting of FD & RD cables (mostly the RD though)!!

I have never had to use any weights, nor has the first 500 - 1000 miles ever been a pain on the new 2011 line of groupsets.

Concerning Campy 11, I must admit that the 2009 line of 11sp. groups seemed to be way more finicky in initial setup, and when you had had a flat on the rear wheel, it would be almost certain that you needed to readjust RD shifting, after installing the rear wheel again!!

This however does NOT count for the new 2011 line of 11sp. groups - they work WITHOUT any problems whatsoever - as soon as the new cables have settled entirely (they DO stretch a little, even though you pre - stretch them), and the FD & RD are adjusted correctly - you do NOT have to adjust it any longer!! Shifting is crisper, more distinct and faster than ever from Campy - even under extreme load, going uphill!!

I would however, agree with the shop owner - the 2009 11sp. line of Campy did not work, unless you readjusted it from time to time, and you knew exactly what you where doing, and kept on doing so, as long as you rode that group.

So if the shop owner hasn’t tried the new 2011 11sp. line of groups, he has missed out on some of the best shifting, best performing, and most aesthetic groups on the market right now!!

With Respect

Mads


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## flatlander_48

Went from 2005 10sp Centaur to 2012 11sp Chorus a few months ago, but I haven't ridden a lot since the upgrade. So far, so good. I did notice that the guy who installed the system made the cable loop to the rear derailleur about 50% bigger than it was before. When I saw that, my first thought was the discussion about cable friction. Also, the thumb levers tend to drag on the slot in the hoods. A small touch of grease will take care of that.

By the way, has anyone tried aftermarket cables on the 11sp systems? Curious if that would be an improvement...


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## zamboni

Mads,

I had the 09 version and they seem to work just fine without any adjustment.


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## ntb1001

I have Record 11speed on my cervelo S2....nor problems!!

Super Record 11speed on my son's chinarello........no problems!!

Love Campy!!!!


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## Got Time

jazclrint said:


> Do you know the link to that video? That would be awesome!


Look for
Campagnolo Rear derailleur cable routing transmission functionality

It should be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umKMVjLhmE4


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## redvespablur

I have a mix of 2009/2010/ and 2011 Chorus/SR and Athena and other than the normal initial cable stretch works very well. 

I would agree that the LBS has likely made an economic decision (in their rights) and is justifying it with good old FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt)


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## Chris Keller

WOW!! What problems?? I really have a hard time understanding this. I have 2009 Campy SR, first on a Look 595 Ultra, then moved that group to a 695. I have over 5,000 miles on it with no issues. My lbs did a fantastic job. I also purchased 2010 Chorus 11sp and I installed it myself onto a 2004 Look KX Light. I have 3,000 miles on that with ZERO problems. It is not difficult to install at all. Simply ensure you have good, friction-free cable routing and your hangers are properly aligned. 

Whoever says Campy 11sp doesn't work must not know how to read, ride or know anything about simple mechanics. 

I moved to Campy in 2001 and have never looked back!! It works period!!! I've seen fellow riding buddies blow up their Shimano shifters after only 6 months. They had to be replaced...some under warranty, some not. I still have that 10sp Record group with 30,000 miles and I've only had to replace cables, chains, cassettes and had the shifter rebuilt once.


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## Moonnerd

My Chorus 11 works great. Did he really say SRAM is working better??? I think he's got an agenda.

I just had lunch with the owner and an employee of the LBS. The employee out of the blue started talking about how much he hates SRAM on his own bike and will never use it again.

Their common saying is Shimano works out of the box, but with SRAM, YOU work and work and work and work to try to get it sorted.


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## ericjacobsen3

I had many problems with '09 Veloce ultrashift but after first month '10 choruss 11 has been good.


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## vaetuning

*11sp. 2009*



zamboni said:


> Mads,
> 
> I had the 09 version and they seem to work just fine without any adjustment.


Hi Zamboni

Yeah, I also think that the 2009 line of groups work quite fine, but nevertheless - the 2011 line of 11sp. groups work fantastic.

Maybe you are a bit like me, and just do some minor adjustments as you ride along, without thinking much about it - some of us are so used to do our own maintenance, that we just don't register it anymore!!

By the way - I loved my 2009 group as much as I love my 2011 groups - but the 2011 groups just work a little better.

For instance; The FD's ability to shift from low gear to high gear, is probably the fastest in the world right now - after approximately 1 / 5 to 1 / 4 of a turn, it is the big ring which is pulling the chain - it is rather remarkable to watch as it happens, when you have the bike on a work stand!

Shifting the RD upwards, when you have your hands down in the bends, has become easier too (on my 2009 group, I sometimes accidently shifted 2 or even 3 gears up, when I only wanted 1 up shift).

Furthermore the span of cable tension, where you have a correct and quiet gearshift on the RD, has become wider, meaning you have several tensions of the RD cable, where shifting is performed correctly and without noise from the chain / cassette after the shift itself.

I also find it easier to obtain the correct tension of the FD cable – the tension where you end up with 2 FD positions on the inner ring and 1 FD position on the outer ring.

One thing though – the chain noise of the 2011 SR group is a little louder (nothing tedious or anything, but a little louder though) than on the 2009 SR group, but as far as I gather, it is because the 2011 RD is made entirely out of carbon – it enhances chain noise a little more than the 2009 partly aluminum RD does.
The chain noise from my 2011 Chorus group is as quiet as my 2009 was – so that backs up my theory quite well.

But anyways – I have had the opportunity to the sell the 2011 line of 11sp groups to quite a few hardcore Shimano & Sram racers, partly by making them aware of their need to up shift several gears at a time, in racing situations. All of them compliment on their groups every time I service one of their bikes, telling me that they’ll never use any other group again. So Campy must be doing something right

Some time ago, one of my customers actually stated, that he did not see why people thought Campy was that expensive – as he stated; "mostly you see or hear of comparisons between Shimano Dura Ace & Campagnolo Record or Shimano Ultegra & Campagnolo Chorus", whereas he believed, that one should compare Dura Ace to Chorus, and Ultegra to Athena. And the 2 other high end groups from Campagnolo simply was way better groups than anything you could buy from Shimano – thinking about what he stated, and the choice of materials, group weights, BB bearings and so on, I must admit – He’s on to something!!

With Respect

Mads


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## ultraman6970

Some mechanics are just "re - tar - ded", sorry straight forward opinion. 

You dont even need the darn instructions to set up campagnolo if you had experience with it before, all the stuff is the same, even a campagnolo guy can set up a never seen before shimano group just out of the box. As to a shimano mechanic to touch a campagnolo group, they wont do it because they say is too hard for their poor brains. 

Do not come back to that shop man, and if you dont do your mechanics yourself just learn the skills, and as many other guys, I have used campy for about 20+ years and I have not had a single issue ever, but maybe one but that single one was my fault because i did used a purpose a kink'd cable. Besides that zero problems.


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## bigbill

I have two 11 bikes that I built up myself. Other than backing out a cup (Italian) on the first ride, no issues at all. The cup backing out was my fault for not following the directions. The cable routing through the ergo lever body is a pain in the ass, you can't rush it.


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## zamboni

Mads,

We had 09 & 11 SR11 on both bikes and I could not tell the difference between the two, beside on my 09 SR11 set up is with Campy crank and noticed when you shift the FR is a bit quicker than Cannondale Si crank with FSA rings.Just completed another bike with 2012 Chorus 11 and had no issue.


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## orange_julius

jazclrint said:


> I went to a Campy Pro-Shop the other day and was told flat out that 11 speed doesn't work. he said before 11 speed the shop was 80% Campy. They sell all high end bikes $2000-$10,000 with Red, both Di2s, ect. I read through this board last night and asked the Campy rep about it today. I can't try to sell people on Campy 11 if there is a problem, or I sell them unrealistic expectations.
> 
> What I got was that basically mechanics need to read the direction. Modern equipment, especially 11 speed has tolerances so tight that you can't just bolt it on and send it out the door. Time must be taken the first time to set everything up right. Which is pretty much the general consensus here. However, I am not sure they take the internal routing issue with as much seriousness as they should. He said there were some problems with smaller frames with internal routing, specifically Cervelos. But I think they are missing the point. Even my friend who has 12,000 miles on his Chorus 11 said that it is fussy, and it works best when it's fairly warm outside. I am certain there are work arounds, but may involve aftermarket cable systems. I'm not sure.
> 
> One interesting thing in the 2012 tech manual was a test using a 1 kg weight to test the drag in the rd cable. Poking the head of RD cable out the bottom of the shifter attach the weight, somehow. Then you play with the levers somehow, its poorly translated. Anyway, the result is that if the RD can pull the 1 kg weight up, then you should have no problems.
> 
> How often do you 11 speed owners need to adjust your drivetrain? Was it just the first 500-1000 miles that was a pain? What do you all think?


I installed a 2009 Chorus 11 groupset on my Cyfac, with internal routing, and I didn't have to "tune" it until I took the frame apart for re-painting 8 months ago. 

I then installed the same groupset and cable (bad idea, I know) on another Cyfac, this time with external routing, about 8 months ago, and I haven't had to "tune" it since. 

On both bikes I routed the cables through the front of the front of the handlebar. 

Now I have a bunch of boxes containing a 2012 Record 11 groupset, which I will install on the newly repainted frame. I expect the same experience. 

By now you've heard the same story from many people, but I felt compelled to add mine ....


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## David Loving

Just my take on it, but sounds as if the op's mech makes more money on red.


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## carbonLORD

This is a silly thread.


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## velodog

David Loving said:


> Just my take on it, but sounds as if the op's mech makes more money on red.


You ain't alone. My take too.


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## eekase

jazclrint said:


> I went to a Campy Pro-Shop the other day and was told flat out that 11 speed doesn't work.


Gosh darn it....my campy 11 spd bikes must be broken, they work perfectly 
I've built up initial year group sets and current year group sets....chorus, record, SR. Never an issue.

Must be other issues involved for a dealer/mechanic to make such a statement.


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## David Loving

The OP should change shops!


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## jazclrint

Not my shop. Just the first Campy pro shop I've been to. I currently work in a shop about an hour away. I am a campy nut, but it seems like every shop I work in (not my intended career) Campagnolo is a swear word. Actually I find that is most shops. I thought I'd find a kindred spirit. I did a bit, apart from the whole 11spd doesn't work thing. And it has been mentioned many times on this forum as I looked through the archives that people have problems getting their 11spd setup right. A lot of them. But now I see there are at least as many, probably more, with no issues. Makes me think I have a chance out Campy-ing the nearest Campy Pro-Shop.

But as a champion of Campy, I did not want to sell someone false expectations. Nothing worse than selling someone over $1000 worth of equipment, only to not have it work as expected.


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## orange_julius

jazclrint said:


> But as a champion of Campy, I did not want to sell someone false expectations. Nothing worse than selling someone over $1000 worth of equipment, only to not have it work as expected.


The solution to this dilemma is obvious: get yourself Campagnolo 11 and convince yourself of how good it is. Then you can be a preacher of the Gospel of Santo Tullio.


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## ultraman6970

Many LBS uses shimano more than nothing because of the support, I give you that campagnolo support is bad but at the same time if the mechanic has no idea how to set up something so easy as a 10 speed campagnolo group, then obviously the guy will complain about 11.

I said it before, some mechanics are pretty bad and if you take them out of the big S brand they have no idea what are they doing at all. Neither figure it out what is wrong.

A good mechanic should build wheels from scratch, true wheels w/o any problem, should at least know how to patch tubulars and know how to set up any brand in the market. A kid in my closest LBS couldnt differentiate a campagnolo fix gear cog from a cassette cog and I have found 2 of those so far in the last 5 years. So doesn't surprise me the guys can't figure it out.


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## flatlander_48

ultraman6970 said:


> A good mechanic should build wheels from scratch, true wheels w/o any problem, should at least know how to patch tubulars and know how to set up any brand in the market. A kid in my closest LBS couldnt differentiate a campagnolo fix gear cog from a cassette cog and I have found 2 of those so far in the last 5 years. So doesn't surprise me the guys can't figure it out.


This brings up a question and I'll admit I don't know. How do people become bicycle mechanics these days? I know there are schools, but if they are turning out folks of duboius skills, it makes you wonder...


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## bigbill

flatlander_48 said:


> This brings up a question and I'll admit I don't know. How do people become bicycle mechanics these days? I know there are schools, but if they are turning out folks of duboius skills, it makes you wonder...


Unless you attend one of the schools, you learn on the job. That is why campy mechanics are few and far between. It's not that hard to set up campy, no harder than shimaNo or SRAM, but if you never do it because 95% of your business is with those two brands, then you certainly don't want to learn on a customers bike. I do my own work and occassionally I'll get a call from the LBS to ask me a question because I'm the only guy they know in the area who rides 11. I've known the owner for years, but he's a Cannondale, Felt, and Raleigh dealer and those come OEM with SRAM and Shimano unless it's some special team bike but he doesn't order those. If you think about your customer base, it makes financial sense.


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## vaetuning

orange_julius said:


> The solution to this dilemma is obvious: get yourself Campagnolo 11 and convince yourself of how good it is. Then you can be a preacher of the Gospel of Santo Tullio.


AMEN & HALLELUJA:aureola:


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## il sogno

My Athena 11 speed works beautifully.


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## GRAVELBIKE

Please send all the non-working Campy bits to me. I'll be happy to dispose of them in a proper fashion.


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## Kristatos

Never any problems or niggles with any of the bikes I've built up with Campy R-11 or C-11 for myself or my buddies. I do follow the process as outlined on the tech sheets and since I only build up a bike once a year or so I always keep the sheets handy to refresh my memory. 

The only issue I ever saw during a Campy build was when I worked alongside a buddy who is a longtime Shimano guy. He was interested in Campy and doing a build with me and was helping out. He got the front shifting all jacked up by basically using the same process he does on Shimano stuff out of habit. I had to undo the cable and start over to get it sorted out. If someone in a bike shop disparages Campy it's probably just because they are too lazy to learn and practice the proper process to set up the components.


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## jazclrint

I really wish I could afford to upgrade to 11 speed. As a mechanic I make enough to get a monthly bus pass, eat, and pay rent. Even though I get employee pricing on things, I just don't make enough to get anything. Someday.

As far as becoming a mechanic, my boss went to one of the schools, and they never taught him to use a derailleur hanger alignment tool. It took me 2 months, threatening to have my personal one mailed to me, and finally his nephews hanger bent enough to finally warrant him finally getting a Park DAG tool. And he still doesn't believe me that they don't come straight from the factory. What kind of school doesn't teach you the importance of using a derailleur hanger, in the era of 10 and 11 speed!? So, no, I'm not impressed with the schools so far. Personally I'd treat it like an apprenticeship, and find the best mechanic around and try to study under them.


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## flatlander_48

jazclrint said:


> I really wish I could afford to upgrade to 11 speed. As a mechanic I make enough to get a monthly bus pass, eat, and pay rent. Even though I get employee pricing on things, I just don't make enough to get anything. Someday.
> 
> As far as becoming a mechanic, my boss went to one of the schools, and they never taught him to use a derailleur hanger alignment tool. It took me 2 months, threatening to have my personal one mailed to me, and finally his nephews hanger bent enough to finally warrant him finally getting a Park DAG tool. And he still doesn't believe me that they don't come straight from the factory. What kind of school doesn't teach you the importance of using a derailleur hanger, in the era of 10 and 11 speed!? So, no, I'm not impressed with the schools so far. Personally I'd treat it like an apprenticeship, and find the best mechanic around and try to study under them.


Thanks for the incite. Like any other consumer item, the schools can have many different quality levels. Even though a school may not spend time specifically going over Campagnolo hardware, they should be teaching the theory behind indexed shifting, for example. That theory plus some basic mechanical skill SHOULD be enough to get you started with Campagnolo without specific training. Makes you wonder...


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## jazclrint

Ever notice that most mechanics are college kids? That's because they will work for peanuts, like I am now. I am certain I'd make more working at McDonald's than where I work now, if I could get into McDonald's. How much expertise can you expect from someone's who's friends who work at McDonald's make more than they do? How these gentlemen in their 40s who are the lead mechanics make a living is beyond me. But I've only ever worked in shops that were located in less affluent, more rural-ish type areas. You know, where people try to haggle you down on a $400 bike. I don't see being a bike mechanic as career choice. But it's keeping me fed and not homeless, so there's always that. 

For full disclosure, I just turned 35, and am working on my teaching certification.


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## mtnroadie

My Athena 11 and Record 11 work great, its all about the mechanic that sets them up. Not much more finiky than my Shimano bikes.

I have complained about Campy on these threads before, I have a creak/tick BB issue that has driven me mad, but I think I have narrowed it down to the bike frames aluminum BB shell.

UPDATE: It was not the BB shell, in fact it turned out to be my Easton Wheels, more specifically the freehub body or Record cassette on the new freehub. The issue has been remedied by overhauling the freehub with lots of grease. The creak is still there but very minor, will try some light oil on the cassette contact points if it gets really bad again.

Buy Campy 11 speed with full confidence its good stuff! Unfortunately the prices seem to have sky rocketed in the past year at least for Athena and it still does not have Ultrashift.


The only thing that kind of sucks about campy are some new tools you will have to buy, torx keyes, Campy chain tool (or take it to your LBS to install the chain or better yet get a kmc 11speed quick link).

The LBSs who are Campy friendly are few and far between.


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## Marz

Admittedly I have 10 speed Campagnolo, Record, Centaur, Veloce, had Chorus.

Set and forget. easier than Shimano and better engineering solutions. eg compare levers.

Just because they work in a bike shop doesn't necessarily mean they know how to do the job. I could tell you stories. I do everything myself and learned all that I know by reading the instructions that came with the parts, pre-stretching the cables (avoids the 'free' first service) and asking advice on this forum. So much experience here.

Do it yourself, you'll never look back.


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## Bizman

I use the Chorus 11 (2011 or 2012 got it in September of 2011?) and it shifts nicely. I do have a tick that has developed after only 1400 mi on every revolution of the pedal (or on the 6th revolution) in any gear which the mechanic heard when riding it. He found there was a sticking link on the chain. 

The mechanic took the link out ($15 with labor) and it still has the tick which the mechanic said he can't hear? Oops, I guess it wasn't the stuck link? Then he wanted to give me my money back for the link and put a chain on it for $90. 

We were short on time that day but I told him I would run it for a while and see if it got any bertter, still got the tick. I would hate to spend that money and still have the tick. This bike is an Lynskey Ti. This tick is driving me crazy! Other than the tick, the shifting is real nice, smooth, and quiet. I suppose it is a possibility its not the Campy components at all? Gotta get it figured out!


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## bottecchia_eja

willieboy said:


> I'm running SR11 for about 5,000 miles and have zero adjustments. Crisp, precise, smooth and super quiet. Guess my shop knows what they're doing. Wouldn't trade it for anything.


I've had a similar experience with my Record 11 speed group. Smooth, quiet, crisp shifts are the norm. I have only half your mileage on mine and the shifts are flawless. On the other hand, I've had bikes with both DuraAce and Ultegra components and I was never happy with the shifting quality. I tried hard to like DuraAce and Ultegra, but it just wasn't for me.

I just installed Athena 11 speed on my 1989 Bottecchia SLX (it still had the original Campy equipment). I am so happy with the way the old Bottecchia now performs that I can't stop smiling when I ride it.

That old Campagnolo dealer needs come over and ride my bikes so he can see for himself how well Campy works.


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## Pirx

Bizman said:


> I do have a tick that has developed after only 1400 mi on every revolution of the pedal (or on the 6th revolution) in any gear which the mechanic heard when riding it. He found there was a sticking link on the chain.


That mechanic is a complete idiot: If the tick occurs once every crank revolution, then it's _impossible_ that the chain is the culprit.



Bizman said:


> This tick is driving me crazy!


Could be lots of things: Cleat(s), pedal(s), BB (shell or bearing(s)), frame, etc., etc. Just about anything but the chain. Talk to a decent mechanic if you have no good strategy to troubleshoot this yourself. But I'll give you that finding the culprit of this kind of thing can be _very_ hard.


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## ericjacobsen3

In defense of the shop, some of the early '09 Ultrashift shifters had excessive internal friction (I have the problem with Veloce Ultrshift until replacing with '10). I can see a shop with several of the problem '09 shifters reaching the stated conclusion that 11-speed doesn't work.

Having said that the '10 and later Ultrashift has been great after a settling in period.


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## Karbon Kev

Don't believe that LBS when he says that. He has obviously some axe to grind, that's his problem. As an existing Campag dealer, he needs to embrace new technology. Campagnolo is the best groupset brand to buy and hopefully will always be so. Shimano is for ordinary people and Sram haven't got a clue, so Campag is still king.


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## bottecchia_eja

Karbon Kev said:


> Don't believe that LBS when he says that. He has obviously some axe to grind, that's his problem. As an existing Campag dealer, he needs to embrace new technology. Campagnolo is the best groupset brand to buy and hopefully will always be so. Shimano is for ordinary people and Sram haven't got a clue, so Campag is still king.


Oh...oh...I foresee a gruppo flame war! 

PS: I agree with you, that LBS probably has an axe to grind. He shouldn't sell Campy at all, if he does not believe in the quality and integrity of the company's product line. I suspect that the dealer has a larger profit margin on SRAM or Shimano, hence his remarks about Campy.


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## jazclrint

vaetuning said:


> AMEN & HALLELUJA:aureola:


If I could I would have a long time ago. That's the same reason why my commuter bike is a Xenon/Mirage/Veloce build. I wanted to see how well the "cheap" stuff worked, and to show people there is more out there than just Record and Chorus.


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## StanleySteamer

*campy guru*

To the op. The Paceline (used to be Serotta fourm) fourm has many campy gurus that extol the virtues of Campy 11 speed. The trick is to find a shop that can actually rebuild the shifters and other Campy parts. Peter (old potatoe is his handle on Paceline fourms) at vecchios.com is the expert on all things Campy.


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## flatlander_48

There is one thing that should be clear from this thread and many other similar ones. A lot of the so-called information about Campagnolo in the public domain is misinformation and propaganda by people who, more than likely, have some axe to grind. The world seems to be filled with Campagnolo envy, from what I can tell. People will believe what they want to, but I think it is up to us (the fans) to correct B/S when we see it...


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## SaddleTime

FWIW: My first bike had full Shimano 6600 Ultegra. I decided right off the bat that I would do as much work on the bike as I could so that I would always be able to keep it in tune, clean it, diagnose (simple) problems and be able to tailor the bike to what I wanted. I got pretty good at tuning the RD because it seemed to go out on a reasonably regular basis but was easy to bring back in line. 

The first time I ever installed a full groupset from scratch - last year - was a full '10 SR11 (on a new naked LOOK 585 frame), which caused me all sorts of anxiety until I actually started to install it, at which point it seemed pretty straightforward. (I watched the Campy Tech install videos on YouTube, and they helped a bit.) I agree that for the first 2 weeks/500kms the RD went out often and needed to be adjusted, but that suddenly stopped, so I expect it was just the housings getting seated in the ferrules. Since that time I've put 6000kms on the bike in everything from snow to rain to hot sun and I have not yet needed to re-tune the RD. 

Since then I've also installed a SRAM Rival groupo on a 'cross frame I bought last year and on my wife's Cervelo - neither install was more or less difficult than the Campy groupo.

I like the Campy groupo so much that I've finally hauled the SRAM Rival stuff off my 'cross bike to replace it with an Athena 11 group I bought. ('Cross sacrilege, I know, but I'm not a good-enough 'cross rider to forego the Campy ergo comfort and shifting that I've become accustomed to on my road bike...)

I guess for me - a guy who had no prior experience installing groupsets, and who has enjoyed the Campy 11 groupset so much - I find it really hard to swallow a dealer saying it doesn't work. Clearly it DOES work. Maybe he should just try installing one first - it's not that hard...


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## bottecchia_eja

SaddleTime said:


> FWIW: My first bike had full Shimano 6600 Ultegra. I decided right off the bat that I would do as much work on the bike as I could so that I would always be able to keep it in tune, clean it, diagnose (simple) problems and be able to tailor the bike to what I wanted. I got pretty good at tuning the RD because it seemed to go out on a reasonably regular basis but was easy to bring back in line.
> 
> The first time I ever installed a full groupset from scratch - last year - was a full '10 SR11 (on a new naked LOOK 585 frame), which caused me all sorts of anxiety until I actually started to install it, at which point it seemed pretty straightforward. (I watched the Campy Tech install videos on YouTube, and they helped a bit.) I agree that for the first 2 weeks/500kms the RD went out often and needed to be adjusted, but that suddenly stopped, so I expect it was just the housings getting seated in the ferrules. Since that time I've put 6000kms on the bike in everything from snow to rain to hot sun and I have not yet needed to re-tune the RD.
> 
> Since then I've also installed a SRAM Rival groupo on a 'cross frame I bought last year and on my wife's Cervelo - neither install was more or less difficult than the Campy groupo.
> 
> I like the Campy groupo so much that I've finally hauled the SRAM Rival stuff off my 'cross bike to replace it with an Athena 11 group I bought. ('Cross sacrilege, I know, but I'm not a good-enough 'cross rider to forego the Campy ergo comfort and shifting that I've become accustomed to on my road bike...)
> 
> I guess for me - a guy who had no prior experience installing groupsets, and who has enjoyed the Campy 11 groupset so much - I find it really hard to swallow a dealer saying it doesn't work. Clearly it DOES work. Maybe he should just try installing one first - it's not that hard...


Excellent post! Especially the suggestion that the dealer should actually try installing a gruppo. Priceless! :thumbsup:


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## Bill Bikie

*A Campy die-hard here*

My first complete bike equiped with Campy gear was a Basso Gap with a Nuovo Record 5 speed drive train. This was back in the late '70's. 

To be honest though, the brakes were not really Campy, but Suntour Supurbe Pro, a Campy copy. 

Funny how Shimano's brake levers and pedals are starting to look like Campy's.


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## Cinelli 82220

I don't even use Campagnolo, but it definitely works fine on my friend's bikes, it looks nice, and it's very durable and reliable. If it was half as bad as some of these dealers say it is nobody would be buying it.

The youtube videos are good but could be better. The one produced by road dot cc featuring the EPS engineer is just awful. But some are really good, like the one on mounting tubeless tires, and the one on installing Ultra Torque cranks. 
Campy should put more effort into those videos. Their stuff is great, but they need help with their marketing. They really deserve more success/market share than they are getting. Or maybe they sell all they can make and are happy with what they have?


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## Bill Bikie

*Campy certifies mechanics*

My local Pro Shop in Fountain City Wisconsin is owned by Mark Brone, a bike mechanic and Cat 2 racer. Mark set up my Quatro with Athena, and he is also certified by Campagnolo to work on Campy's electronic shifting system. 

More cyclists would be familiar with the Campy brand if more assembled bikes on the shop floor were equiped with Campy (Veloce or Athena). However many of these bikes on the floor are entry level and are purchased by riders buying their first road bike.

I feel Campy is a superior product, and maybe because it does need some exrta care during installation, therefore should only be on high end bikes or custom builds which are assembled by people who know the product line. Any poorly adjusted component can turn off a potential life customer.


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## PlatyPius

Bill Bikie said:


> My local Pro Shop in Fountain City Wisconsin is owned by Mark Brone, a bike mechanic and Cat 2 racer. Mark set up my Quatro with Athena, and he is also certified by Campagnolo to work on Campy's electronic shifting system.
> 
> More cyclists would be familiar with the Campy brand if more assembled bikes on the shop floor were equiped with Campy (Veloce or Athena). However many of these bikes on the floor are entry level and are purchased by riders buying their first road bike.
> 
> I feel Campy is a superior product, and maybe because it does need some exrta care during installation, therefore should only be on high end bikes or custom builds which are assembled by people who know the product line. Any poorly adjusted component can turn off a potential life customer.


It sucks for shops like mine, since I'm a Campy guy, that hardly any bikes come with Campy. It also sucks that almost none of my suppliers have Veloce groups. I can build one from parts, but you always get better pricing on a listed group. So, Veloce ends up being more expensive than SRAM Apex, which I can order with one click. However, I've picked up DeBernardi and Ciocc and they both offer Campy versions of bikes, so it looks like I'll finally have some Campy bikes on the floor.

As for the original post about 11 speed sucking... I disagree. I love my Athena 11.


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## castofone

I've been running 2010 Record for 18,000 km with no problems. I built the bike myself, a first for me.
Just recently I have noticed a slight tardiness of the RD pulling onto the small cogs. I think the cable needs cleaning.

The cables are external. I prefer it that way because I can cross the cables under the down tube.


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## cda 455

StanleySteamer said:


> To the op. The Paceline (used to be Serotta fourm) fourm has many campy gurus that extol the virtues of Campy 11 speed. The trick is to find a shop that can actually rebuild the shifters and other Campy parts. Peter (old potatoe is his handle on Paceline fourms) at _*vecchios.com*_ is the expert on all things Campy.



Have you been to their shop?

Or done any business with them?


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## Wookster

Got 11speed chorus here just awesome no issues. Love the feel of the shifting!


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## MTBDad

*Mine Works Great!!*

I just switched from SRAM to SR-11. I have done all my own wrenching for a while, but was a little nervous after reaing about how finicky 11-speed can be initially. The install couldn't have been easier. Love it so far!


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## Elfstone

I've had 11speed chorus for a year coming May 7th and it's worked flawlessly. I love everything about the group and the neutron ultra wheels have been good to me too.

PAX


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## colnagorapid

Get a new mechanic! I bring my bike only to shops who specialize in campy and I have 3k on a 2010 chorus zero adjustments works amazing, cold hot dirty or wet it doesn't matter, I love it


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## rhauft

*Total & Complete BS*

I have always built and tuned my own bikes and have owned the best of all three brands. I've had three SR11 bikes, built them all up myself. No more difficult to build then SRAM or Shimano. Nothing works better then SR11 ti.


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## cda 455

rhauft said:


> I have always built and tuned my own bikes and have owned the best of all three brands. I've had three SR11 bikes, built them all up myself. No more difficult to build then SRAM or Shimano. Nothing works better then SR11 ti.



Very nice :thumbsup: !


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