# Knees are Buggin - Will Clipless Pedals Help?



## watchman4 (Mar 30, 2011)

So I bought a cyclocross bike not too long ago as a sort of commuter/exercise bike. Any time I put 40 or 50 miles in a week my knees just ache for the next couple of weeks. I have no pre-existing knee problems whatsoever. 

I understand that clipping makes you more efficient, allows for more precise fitting, and so on. The way the guy at the LBS explained it to me is that you are basically doing lunges with one leg every time you pedal w/o clips. With clips, it's more of a fluid spinning motion. The difference sounds promising to my knees. 

Has anyone had this problem or can speak to this at all?


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## takl23 (Jul 22, 2007)

You will be able to pedal in more circular motion by pulling on the upstroke so you may not have to push so hard on the downstroke so pedals could help. 

Bike fit could also be an issue.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

watchman4 said:


> The way the guy at the LBS explained it to me is that you are basically doing lunges with one leg every time you pedal w/o clips. With clips, it's more of a fluid spinning motion. The difference sounds promising to my knees.
> 
> Has anyone had this problem or can speak to this at all?


The "lunges" thing is sheer nonsense. True, when you're clipped in, it's much easier to push the pedal over the top and pull it through the bottom of the crank circle. But that has no bearing on how your knees will fare. And if you're careless with shoe selection, pedal choice and cleat adjustment, clipless pedals could actually make your problem worse.

The best thing about clipless pedals the feeling of connectedness you get with the bike. And because you can't come off the pedal, you don't need to use muscle (and energy) to stabilize your foot on the pedal. But again: if you have knee problems with platform pedals, make sure you get competent help when going to clipless pedals.

For what it's worth: most elite competitive cyclists don't push the pedal over the top and / or pull it through the bottom of the crank circle—and they certainly don't pull up on the upstroke. They simply push down hard on the downstroke. To win, they push down harder. Steady long-distance riders (like tourists) do derive some benefit from "pedaling circles."


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## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)

You probably need to adjust your saddle height. Basic rule is if it hurts in front you may need to raise your saddle. If its in back you need to lower. Your results may vary. 

I agree the lunges thing is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard.


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## watchman4 (Mar 30, 2011)

Ugh...I just want to be able to ride w/o pain but there are no easy answers


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

watchman4 said:


> Ugh...I just want to be able to ride w/o pain but there are no easy answers


Well, maybe there are. You asked about clipless pedals (probably inspired by the LBS guy), so I went off on my clipless pedal lecture. But really, you could just be sitting wrong (as brianmcg said), putting in too many miles without gentle conditioning or pushing much too large of a gear. Or all three of these could apply. These are areas with which you can experiment completely free of charge.

I'd start by raising the saddle 1 cm (1/2 inch) and see how that feels. It's a big change, so take it easy on the test rides. Remember to spin smaller gears rather than mash big ones—feels slow and inefficient at first, but that goes away.


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## pcs2 (Sep 4, 2006)

I echo some of the sentiments above. I don't think clipless pedals will solve the knee problem (however I think clipless are great).

I suspect your problem is probably with your saddle placement. Check to make sure you have it high enough, and also the fore/aft placement. To far forward or backward and my knees start to ache.

Also watch out for the pushing too large a gear at low rpm as mentioned above.

Also, whenever I increase mileage, or return from a break, my knees get sore. Some IT band stretches help, and using a foam roller to do a deep massage.

Good luck.


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## Erion929 (Jun 10, 2010)

I asked a similar question the other day.....here:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/general-cycling-discussion/frustrating-knee-pain-259106.html


Mine may be remedied by toeing out my foot with the cleat....one ride was noticeably better, I have to evaluate it again tomorrow.

So it may be your cleat positions or your saddle height.

Oh, wait....just saw you are NOT using clipless, yet....nevermind :blush2:

**


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I agree that this is likely an overuse/ fit issue, with cadence being a possible contributing factor. 

From your general description, I think wim's second post probably has you covered, but if you post the specific area(s) of knee discomfort (across, outer, inner) we might be able to narrow things down a little more.


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## ddimick (Aug 9, 2011)

brianmcg said:


> You probably need to adjust your saddle height. Basic rule is if it hurts in front you may need to raise your saddle. If its in back you need to lower. Your results may vary.
> 
> I agree the lunges thing is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard.


QFT. I was getting pain behind the knee, lowered the saddle a bit, and that pain is now gone.


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## bent_remy (Jul 24, 2011)

I concur. I believe the fit is the most likely cause if your knee pain. I've had knee problems ever since a car accident in 07. I ride with a neoprene sleeve only knees but experience no pain during or after rides. (I ride clipless)


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## watchman4 (Mar 30, 2011)

thanks for all the feedback, this is solid. i'll address them one at a time.

1. it usually hurts dead in the middle of my knees. in other words if you put a pin straight through my knee cap it that is where the pain is. sometimes a bit above.

2. pushing too high of a gear: this makes a lot of sense and it s a real possibility. i really should have thought of that. i have a tendency when i'm feeling antsy to kick it into high gear and try to rip it, especially going up hills. i'll ease up and see how it feels.

3. saddle height: i had it fitted at the LBS but i suppose tweaks are made from standard fits based on personal feel and whatnot, yes? 

4. conditioning: i'm in pretty good shape, i run fairly regularly, play basketball, do an occasional fitness challenge. every sport does work a unique set of muscles, however, so maybe easing into the bike a bit more could be wise.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

watchman4 said:


> thanks for all the feedback, this is solid. i'll address them one at a time.
> 
> 1. it usually hurts dead in the middle of my knees. in other words if you put a pin straight through my knee cap it that is where the pain is. sometimes a bit above.
> 
> ...


Based on #2 above and previous info you've offered, I think cadence is the primary contributing factor to your knee pain. I suggest investing in a $30 Cateye Astrale 8 (or similar) and reading up on the topic of cadence. The link below is a start, but seaches here will get you a few hits.

The second _possible_ factor is overuse, but given your weekly mileage, rather than taper back your saddle time I'd suggest moderating your intensity, which riding at a higher cadence will help accomplish. 

While tweaks to fit are common, because this fix _may_ include a slight rearward saddle adjustment, I think you should consult the LBS fitter. This way they can double check your saddle height/ fore/ aft and make any needed adjustments.

I know that some here say that taking charge of ones own fit is beneficial (and for the most part, I agree), but if changes aren't tracked and done incrementally, there's the potential to introduce new fit issues. So for now, because you're new to this, I say let the LBS fitter handle it.

Here's a link you may find useful.
CYCLING PERFORMANCE TIPS -

The first two paragraphs discuss overuse/ cadence and under *Knee Pain *(Anterior) are some causes of your pain. Because your discomfort is in both knees (and you don't use cleats) the last three bullets under _possible solutions _wouldn't apply. I think the first _will_, and the second _might_. 

Just as a FYI, you might also want to read the section under *Chondromalacia*.


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## watchman4 (Mar 30, 2011)

Problem seems to be solved: I've been spinning a lower gear than I'm inclined to do naturally instead of mashing the high gears and my knee pain has almost completely subsided. Thanks all.


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## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)

watchman4 said:


> Problem seems to be solved: I've been spinning a lower gear than I'm inclined to do naturally instead of mashing the high gears and my knee pain has almost completely subsided. Thanks all.


Thats great!!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

watchman4 said:


> Problem seems to be solved: I've been spinning a lower gear than I'm inclined to do naturally instead of mashing the high gears and my knee pain has almost completely subsided. Thanks all.


Glad you got it sorted out. Keep the pedal stroke smooth and cadence up! :thumbsup:


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## AndreRoad (Sep 16, 2011)

Go get fitted by someone certified!


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## SROC3 (Jul 20, 2009)

agreed. Get fitted before it starts to hurt again  Funny how they call them clip-less pedals huh?......when you're actually CLIPPED in. LOL!!!!!


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