# Lightweight Wheelset for a Lightweight: AM Classic Hubs vs White Industries? Rims?



## jwarren879 (Jul 10, 2009)

I'm looking to purchase my first set of custom handbuilt wheels and seeking feedback/advice. I weigh 130 lbs, pretty light on the pedals, not much of a sprinter though I do try occasionally. No racing (yet?) but I do enjoy riding at a high pace and climbing. Most of my riding is done on paved trails and occasionally on city streets. These wheels would be my primary wheelset, ridden approximately 2-3 days per week. For comparison, I currently ride on 32H Open Pros/Ultegras (~1760g) but will be using those wheels on another bike. After speaking with a wheel builder at a local shop, this is what I've come up with:

FRONT WHEEL (~600g)

Hub: American Classic Micro 58 - 24 Hole
Spokes: Sapim CX Rays
Nipples: Aluminum
Rim: Velocity Aerohead

REAR WHEEL (~750g)

Hub: American Classic 205 - 28 Hole
Spokes: Sapim CX Rays
Nipples: Aluminum
Rim: Velocity Aerohead OC

For a total of approximately 1350g. My weights are based off of manufacturers info so if you have real world data please correct me.

I've read that the hub bearings have the potential to wear out prematurely but the hubs should spin up quickly and be very smooth. Other options I'm considering are White Industry H2's, would this be a better choice even though they're slightly heavier? How do the Kinlin XR200's compare to the Velocity Aeroheads? My LBS is a small, one man shop and the owner has no experience with Kinlins so he couldn't comment. Would it be better to go with the lighter Kinlins or would the aero benefits of the Aeroheads offset their higher weight? At my weight can I get away with 20/24? What would I be sacrificing if I opt for 20/24 over 24/28? Will the wheels be noticeably less stiff?

Sorry if the questions seem all over the place, I'm typing this just before heading out for the night. Thanks for any help you can offer.


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## Kappaccino (Jun 21, 2009)

Not looking to hijack your thread bud. 
I'm looking forward to see how RBR answers you.

We're pretty similar since I'm also:
-130lbs
-looking into wheelsets (preferably not wallet busting)
-not racing
-liking high pace, occasionally sprinting, and lots o' climbing
-riding 2 to 3 days a week
-using heavy stock wheelset, they are mavic cxp22's 32H on specialized hubs
-LBS wants to sell me ROLF vectors (meh) out of my $$ range
-I'll probably end up getting the BWW blackset or Williams System 19 (under 500$) and from
what I've been told, custom wheelsets won't save me much money (says shop guy)


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## valleycyclist (Nov 1, 2009)

I wouldn't worry too much about getting the lightest hubs you can find.

What about this?

White Industries H2 front, H3 rear
DT Swiss RR415 front/rear (28 spokes each)
Sapim CX-Ray Spokes w/aluminum nips (or Laser spokes to save some money)

~1450g for the set


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

Can't speak for Aerohead and American Classsic hubs but I like Kinlin rims a lot.
I have a set of XR-300 with 20/24 (DT 240 hubs) and I weigh 180 to 185 lbs.
At 130lbs, 20/24 set is more than sufficient, IMO.
My guess is XR-200, CX-Ray and DT or WI hubs will weigh around 1350 grams.
You can probably drop it under 1300 by using Tune or Alchemy hub, me think.


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

i agree with cpark... niobium rims are great and at 130lbs u will have no problem with the 200 rims.

i've built a few ac350 rims which are very similar.

trust me on this... WI hubs>AC hubs... i do use the front micro 58 on some builds, but if you value longevity and basing a build on a quality hub, WI is it... 

you can mix and match..

micro 58 + da 28h hub would be cost effective and a good set up... i feel the bearings in the ac rear hub aren't very good for the rear application and the flange spacing is very narrow building a less laterally stiff rear wheel. overall quality of materials used are no where near DA and WI. ~ 1350g

WI H2 hubs = ~ 1360g

aeroheads are similar to weight to the OP rims... u can bet around 430g per rim so markedly heavier than the rim weight of the kinlin around 385g ea. that matters the most in a wheelset... the kinlin is slightly taller profile as well. so the suggested build u have takes durability quality and weight from the hub and puts weight on the rim - not ideal. Plus there have been a few reported issues with the Aerohead OC rims.. ~ 1370g build


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

If you use 420g for the Aeroheads, and 435g for the DT1.1s, and 385g for the XR200s, you'll be about right.

The XR200s are the most aero of that bunch, I'd wager. 

At 170lbs I'm riding XR200s, Alchemy hubs, CX-Rays, 20f,28r.... 1267g. They seem great after 3k miles... no truing needed yet. These hubs weigh a total of 275g so adjust for hubs of your choosing... plus these rims were both under 380g. These retail for ~$900, but you could go with a DT240 rear and save ~$100... if you pull the sticker off they look great with the Alchemy front hub. Or the WI hubs are great too, but heavier. 

Your LBS can get the rims from Alchemy or Fairwheel... but I'd be reluctant to have him build them unless he does this a lot and has a good rep.


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## jiggs (Sep 17, 2002)

*I have a set of AmClassic hubs laced to a cheap rim*

with straight spokes and wondered if I sent the hubs only to Fairwheel if they would relace them to a pair of Kinlin XR-270 rims with Cxray spokes. I guess the hubs weigh about 300, and the rims would likely be 430 each with about 210 grams for spokes and another 15 grams for nipples or about 1,400 grams total without skewers. Any idea what I should pay to have this done? I am 165 # and looked at the XR200 but am told that they would be too light. Any comments? thanks


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## Lil Dale (Feb 19, 2009)

Both of you guys at 130, gain some weight please! I would stay away from the American classics especially the rear, 20/24 will be fine.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

I have a set of AM classic 350s, and two sets of wheels with White Ind hubs (h1 and h2). I'd get the White rear. I have not had an AM classic hub break (they had a bad run of parts from a supplier some years ago, which gave them a bad reputation). But the rear hub design is bad. To equalize the spoke tension they move the left flange in rather than putting the right flange as far out as possible. That makes the tension less uneven, but it makes for a wheel that is laterally flexible... especially when used with lightweight low profile rims. When I stand on the pedals I can bounce the rim off the brake blocks at will. I only weigh 140-145 lbs depending on the time of year, and I am no powerhouse.

My WI wheels are much sturdier. They have higher profile rims, which makes for stiffer wheels, but fewer spokes. I don't mind the small bearings on the AM classic front hub- they are easy to replace and a common size at that. But the WI hubs spin better on the workbench, for whatever that is worth.

The OC design rim is a good idea and will make for a sturdier wheel due to less unequal spoke tension. But XR-270 rims are awesome. I have one (IRD branded) on my powertap wheel, it's pretty light but makes for a stiff strong wheel.


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## vortechcoupe (Jun 6, 2006)

Pairing an American Classic rear hub to the aerohead OC doesn't make sense. The flange spacing is almost the same on that hub so the OC rim wouldn't help.

The spoke length on AC's factory rear wheels are the same so if you to offset the spoke bed to the left non-drive side those spokes would be shorter and they would end up having less bracing angle. The combo just doesn't jive together.

I recommend WI hubs or even better, Troys (Ligero) hubs and let him build a set with kinlin 270 rims, 20/24 spokes. I love my triplet setup with kinlin 300 rim and WI hub.


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## jwarren879 (Jul 10, 2009)

So it seems the consensus is the WI hubs are superior to the AM Classics and I should be fine with 20/24. Will the Kinlin XR200 rims be durable with this low of a spoke count? Any other rims to recommend with a low spoke count?

FRONT WHEEL (~575g)

Hub: White Industries H2 - 20 Hole
Spokes: Sapim CX Rays
Nipples: Aluminum
Rim: Kinlin XR200

REAR WHEEL (~750g)

Hub: White Industries H2 - 24 Hole
Spokes: Sapim CX Rays
Nipples: Aluminum
Rim: Kinlin XR200

Total Weight: ~1325g

Thanks for all the advice so far.


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

personally, i think u were right the first time... 24/28... it is not a aero build to worry about low spoke count... the 200 is a light rim... i think the others are talking about the kinlin 270 or 300 rims...

u could get away with 20/24, but you will lose durability and stiffness... build might be too flexy for hard climbing efforts, in which case u are SOL.... i would opt for the safe 24/28 option myself.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

The front isn't going to flex with 20, but you might want 28 on the rear. Seems like 24r should be good for your avg 130 lber though.


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

yup, front is no problem, rear might be... depends what kinda climbing you do.... if actual mountains were it pinches 15% or more and the 60kg rider is quite strong, u will need a stiff rear wheel... a 60kg rider who climbs and kicks out a bit will need more stiffness than a 70kg who stays on the flats JRA...

excellent point tho, if concerned 20/28 would be an excellent compromise... cxray are good spokes, but not the stiffest either, what is it, 64% as stiff as a straight guage 2.0mm spoke? so a few more in the rear is good insurance...


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

jwarren879 said:


> So it seems the consensus is the WI hubs are superior to the AM Classics and I should be fine with 20/24. Will the Kinlin XR200 rims be durable with this low of a spoke count? Any other rims to recommend with a low spoke count?
> 
> FRONT WHEEL (~575g)
> 
> ...


Mine, built with XR300, came in at 1461grams (w/DT hubs - 20/24), so 1325 grams looks right for targeted weight. If you are concern with the flexibility of the rear wheel, maybe you want to go with XR270 in the rear or build the wheelset with Alchemy hubs....
At 130lbs, I think you will be fine, IMO.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

wankski said:


> personally, i think u were right the first time... 24/28... it is not a aero build to worry about low spoke count... the 200 is a light rim... i think the others are talking about the kinlin 270 or 300 rims...
> 
> u could get away with 20/24, but you will lose durability and stiffness... build might be too flexy for hard climbing efforts, in which case u are SOL.... i would opt for the safe 24/28 option myself.


agree


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## jwarren879 (Jul 10, 2009)

rruff said:


> If you use 420g for the Aeroheads, and 435g for the DT1.1s, and 385g for the XR200s, you'll be about right.
> 
> The XR200s are the most aero of that bunch, I'd wager.
> 
> ...


Are the Kinlin rims difficult to build with? How are they different than any other rim when building a wheelset? Any unique precautions that must be taken? I have a few friends with handbuilt wheels from the same shop and they are both very pleased with how they turned out.

Thanks again.


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

you could get a set of wheels with these qualities from Flit wheels, http://www.flitwheels.com/letica.html with no name hubs. or from revolution wheelworks, http://www.revolutionwheelworks.com/REV-22L.html and probably from bicycle wheel warehouse as well.


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## SROC3 (Jul 20, 2009)

*What I Use - I'm only 10 pounds heavier*



wankski said:


> personally, i think u were right the first time... 24/28... it is not a aero build to worry about low spoke count... the 200 is a light rim... i think the others are talking about the kinlin 270 or 300 rims...
> 
> u could get away with 20/24, but you will lose durability and stiffness... build might be too flexy for hard climbing efforts, in which case u are SOL.... i would opt for the safe 24/28 option myself.


I'm 140 and recently got my wheelset built up using 20/28 on Kinlin XR200s. They rock and I have no issues with flex at all. I considered doing a 24 on the front but it worked out fine at 20. I climb a LOT and love my setup. And if you're literally 130 lbs, you will have NO issues with that. Here's my build below:

- Kinlin XR 200
- Sapim CX Ray 
- Alchemy Elf (front hub)
- White Ind H3 (rear hub)
- *1297 GRAMS* 

I would also try considering another option, and go with a custom wheel builder who really knows his stuff and has "experience" building up this kind of wheelset. While your LBS may have the best of intentions, it does not always equate with the best, final product - especially when it comes to a custom wheel build.

Having said that, give Austin at Zen Cyclery a call. He did my build up and I'm pretty sure he can give you a very fair price on the build. Here's a link to my wheels if you want to see them  - http://www.flickr.com/photos/qualitypicz/galleries/72157623032283294/


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