# Rohloff Compatible Gravel Grinder Disc Frame??



## mummer43

Hi guys, I'm interested in building up my own gravel grinder and I was thinking of using a Rohloff rear with a belt drive. I'd like to start with a frame and source all the components myself. I've never built a bike before and I think it would be a nice diversion from my busy work life. 

My question is, what is good frame to look for that will b compatible with the drivetrain that I want? I'm guessing steel would be my best option. I'd say this bike would be used mostly for local touring and commuting as well as just fun rides. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!


----------



## mummer43

I'm not neccesarily married to the idea of a Rohloff rear.


----------



## rmsmith

Co-Motion Divide


----------



## Jay Strongbow

I don't think a Rohloff or any internal hub is a very good idea.

-Less efficient.
-no option to change gear ratios. I ride gravel a lot and definitely like different gears for different rides and switch cassettes quite often. If it's flat where you live that might be n/a though.
-You'd need flat bars or need to jerry-rig drop bars. (most people prefer normal Shim/Sram/Campy brake/shifter setup for drop bars)
-Really expensive.
-Kind of a pain to change tires. Like gears, I find with gravel riding I tend to want different tires for different rides so change tires a lot. And flats are more likely.
-Really expensive.
-Much less chance of a local shop or yourself having parts handy and being able to fix in the event of a problem as compared to der. shifting.
-Can't, or really shouldn't, shift under load. That's a big deal, IMO, on gravel if it's hilly at all.

Internal hubs are cool and have their place.......but performance riding and/or where versatility helps ain't that place IMO.


----------



## mummer43

Jay Strongbow said:


> I don't think a Rohloff or any internal hub is a very good idea.
> 
> -Less efficient.
> -no option to change gear ratios. I ride gravel a lot and definitely like different gears for different rides and switch cassettes quite often. If it's flat where you live that might be n/a though.
> -You'd need flat bars or need to jerry-rig drop bars. (most people prefer normal Shim/Sram/Campy brake/shifter setup for drop bars)
> -Really expensive.
> -Kind of a pain to change tires. Like gears, I find with gravel riding I tend to want different tires for different rides so change tires a lot. And flats are more likely.
> -Really expensive.
> -Much less chance of a local shop or yourself having parts handy and being able to fix in the event of a problem as compared to der. shifting.
> -Can't, or really shouldn't, shift under load. That's a big deal, IMO, on gravel if it's hilly at all.
> 
> Internal hubs are cool and have their place.......but performance riding and/or where versatility helps ain't that place IMO.


I hear what you're saying. As I mentioned I'm not dead set on Rohloff. I really like the divide, but I'm looking to spend less on the frame. I definitely do want discs, though. 

What are some options for a steel gravel/touring frame that are cheaper than the divide? Let's just say the Rohloff is out for the moment. I'm looking for a classic looking bike with Brooks Saddle and bar tape along with a classic looking drive train. I also think I'd prefer a 700c wheelset but again, I'm not dead set on it.


----------



## Jay Strongbow

mummer43 said:


> I hear what you're saying. As I mentioned I'm not dead set on Rohloff. I really like the divide, but I'm looking to spend less on the frame. I definitely do want discs, though.
> 
> What are some options for a steel gravel/touring frame that are cheaper than the divide?


I recently bought a steel CX/Gravel bike, did a lot of looking and one of the options I remember really liking, but didn't get, that come in under $2k (the co-motion price) was geekhouse. Link pasted below. I'm pretty sure they could make it disc without adding much, if any, to the price but you'd need to check. I think it fits the "classic with a brooks" look you're going for. Although not in the color shown in the link. 


Deerfield - Geekhouse Bikes


----------



## mummer43

Have you guys seen this beauty? More than I'm looking to spend but this is a damn nice bike.

Stoater : Disc brake Reynolds 853 touring bike ? Shand Cycles

Edit: on second thought I just may have to go with this frame.


----------



## Jay Strongbow

mummer43 said:


> Have you guys seen this beauty? More than I'm looking to spend but this is a damn nice bike.
> 
> Stoater : Disc brake Reynolds 853 touring bike ? Shand Cycles
> 
> Edit: on second thought I just may have to go with this frame.


Looks nice. Good tube set too so should be fairly light. Make sure you're looking at geometry and fit and not just looks and compatibility though.

Not to imply it would be the case with you but I'd need to use a forward seatpost and probably a crazy downward angle stem slammed to get it to fit the way I like. But it's a touring bike and I race so that would figure.


----------



## mummer43

Cyclemonkey sell this frame for $2399. Do you guys think that's a god price? Lots of customization available on the frame.


----------



## Jay Strongbow

mummer43 said:


> Cyclemonkey sell this frame for $2399. * Do you guys think that's a god price?* Lots of customization available on the frame.
> 
> View attachment 310629


No. That's $100 more than a fully custom Indy Fab (top notch builders) and over a $1000 more than a Gunnar which is probably of at least equal quality.

No offence man but trying to save money on a frame so you can use a crazy expensive 'wrong tool for the job' hub doesn't make a ton of sense.


----------



## mummer43

Jay Strongbow said:


> No. That's $100 more than a fully custom Indy Fab (top notch builders) and over a $1000 more than a Gunnar which is probably of at least equal quality.
> 
> No offence man but trying to save money on a frame so you can use a crazy expensive 'wrong tool for the job' hub doesn't make a ton of sense.


Just curious, why is it the wrong tool for the job?

Edit: forget it. Yes, after doing some reading I'm probably not gonna go with Rolloff hub. Thanks for the input.


----------



## Jay Strongbow

mummer43 said:


> Just curious, why is it the wrong tool for the job?


You quoted my detailing that so I assume you read it.


----------



## mummer43

Yes. Sorry for the confusion. I like the Gunnar Hyper X. Any opinions?


----------



## Jay Strongbow

I've known a few people who have a Gunnar Crosshairs and love it. I think the Hyper x is essentially the same thing for disc brakes.


----------



## mummer43

What kind of drivetrain would you guys recommend? Would a 1x work?


----------



## Roland44

mummer43 said:


> Have you guys seen this beauty? More than I'm looking to spend but this is a damn nice bike.
> 
> Stoater : Disc brake Reynolds 853 touring bike ? Shand Cycles
> 
> Edit: on second thought I just may have to go with this frame.


Looks great!


----------



## mikerp

Jay Strongbow said:


> I don't think a Rohloff or any internal hub is a very good idea.
> 
> -Less efficient.


Seriously? If you want to use this as a factor I take it that you have worked out every other efficiency.



Jay Strongbow said:


> -no option to change gear ratios. I ride gravel a lot and definitely like different gears for different rides and switch cassettes quite often. If it's flat where you live that might be n/a though.


These guys are doing MTB marathons in crap weather (definitely up and down hill and using them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mzdSv57vyU
Cycle Monkey has plenty of videos as well. If anything Rohloff has plenty of climbing capacity. If you aren't getting the range you need you can always swap out the chainring or rear sprocket.




Jay Strongbow said:


> -You'd need flat bars or need to jerry-rig drop bars. (most people prefer normal Shim/Sram/Campy brake/shifter setup for drop bars)


Wrong - Cycle Monkey — Gebla Rohbox
On can use drop bars at this point with modded SRAM/Campy shifters and the Gebla



Jay Strongbow said:


> -Really expensive.


Expensive is relative to the individual, it really not a point in these discussions



Jay Strongbow said:


> -Kind of a pain to change tires. Like gears, I find with gravel riding I tend to want different tires for different rides so change tires a lot. And flats are more likely.


How so? Loosen the shift box thumb screw, pop off the box, open QR, drop the wheel.



Jay Strongbow said:


> -Much less chance of a local shop or yourself having parts handy and being able to fix in the event of a problem as compared to der. shifting.


Based on their track record their isn't anything to fix, change the oil and recable, the things are built like tanks, if anything weight could be an issue




Jay Strongbow said:


> -Can't, or really shouldn't, shift under load. That's a big deal, IMO, on gravel if it's hilly at all.


Shifting takes a split second, I don't shift under full power on my regular bikes either.



Jay Strongbow said:


> Internal hubs are cool and have their place.......but performance riding and/or where versatility helps ain't that place IMO.


Back to the Euro video, they have a place in racing long nasty conditions.

Yes I own one, custom Lynskey Pro 29er frame, with a Cherry Red Rohloff, and Gates Carbon Belt; I built it for total crap road weather/off road XC. It's a climbing beast, with a cadence of 95 it has a range of 6-32 mph. Was it easy to set up? Incorporating a Power2max Rotor/Rex crank was the most challenging with the belt chainline (as it needs to be exact), a chain is much easier, as would be a road frame.


----------



## mummer43

Ok so at this point I'm going to go with the Shand frame and build it up with a shimano 105 drivetrain. I like this frame because it can easily take a Rohloff if I decide to go that way in the future. Here are some of the components I am gonna go with. Please feel free to suggest anything you feel might work better. 

Shimano 105
TRP Spyre brakes
Stans Grail rims
King Hubs
King Headset
Thomson stem
Thomson seat post
Selle Anatomica NSX saddle 
Salsa skewers


----------



## Jay Strongbow

mikerp said:


> Seriously? If you want to use this as a factor I take it that you have worked out every other efficiency.
> 
> 
> These guys are doing MTB marathons in crap weather (definitely up and down hill and using them.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mzdSv57vyU
> Cycle Monkey has plenty of videos as well. If anything Rohloff has plenty of climbing capacity. If you aren't getting the range you need you can always swap out the chainring or rear sprocket.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong - Cycle Monkey — Gebla Rohbox
> On can use drop bars at this point with modded SRAM/Campy shifters and the Gebla
> 
> 
> Expensive is relative to the individual, it really not a point in these discussions
> 
> 
> How so? Loosen the shift box thumb screw, pop off the box, open QR, drop the wheel.
> 
> 
> Based on their track record their isn't anything to fix, change the oil and recable, the things are built like tanks, if anything weight could be an issue
> 
> 
> 
> Shifting takes a split second, I don't shift under full power on my regular bikes either.
> 
> 
> Back to the Euro video, they have a place in racing long nasty conditions.
> 
> Yes I own one, custom Lynskey Pro 29er frame, with a Cherry Red Rohloff, and Gates Carbon Belt; I built it for total crap road weather/off road XC. It's a climbing beast, with a cadence of 95 it has a range of 6-32 mph. Was it easy to set up? Incorporating a Power2max Rotor/Rex crank was the most challenging with the belt chainline (as it needs to be exact), a chain is much easier, as would be a road frame.


-Yes, Seriously. Even Rohloff acknowledges that. 

-Of course they (can) have climbing capacity. Please note what I actually said had to do with switching cassettes and options not climbing ability.

-You say 'modded' I say jerry-rig. Not sure what your point is there.

-Price may not be the point for you but it is a point (on of many) for 99% of people when choosing to buy, or not buy, something and the OP indicated he does care a bit.

-I can change a cassette geared flat much quicker than one on an internal hub. that's how.

-ah, the old but you never need to fix it argument to lack of service. how can I respond to that?

-I don't care if you shift under power or not. It's an issue to someone who does or may want to so should be considered.

-So I say they do have a place and you counter with they do have a place? Why bother?

-yeah, I can tell you have one. the way people take fair and accurate critique of their bike parts personal and defend the is one of the great mysteries of internet behavior.


----------



## Jay Strongbow

mummer43 said:


> What kind of drivetrain would you guys recommend? Would a 1x work?


One that matches your terrain, leg strength and preferred cadence. No one here can tell you that.


----------



## GermanicBehemoth

@Jay Strongbow - you seem to have a very strong opinion of the Speedhub. Do you - or did you - own one? Can you provide some additional feedback on what type of bike you used it on and what type of terrain you ride/rode? I am looking at buying something similar to the Shand Stoater that mummer43 is looking at and recently test rode a bike with a Rohloff hub and Gebla Rohbox/SRAM brifter setup and it seemed to work great. The test ride was only 15-20 minutes, so it wasn't a full ride, but there were a couple of small hills involved and the bike seemed to shift just fine seated or standing. The gear range was much wider than any road or cross bike I have ever ridden, which seemed appealing for off pavement adventures. Just wondering what else I might need to be aware of so there are no surprises if I move forward with an order.


----------



## Jay Strongbow

GermanicBehemoth said:


> @Jay Strongbow - you seem to have a very strong opinion of the Speedhub. Do you - or did you - own one? Can you provide some additional feedback on what type of bike you used it on and what type of terrain you ride/rode? I am looking at buying something similar to the Shand Stoater that mummer43 is looking at and recently test rode a bike with a Rohloff hub and Gebla Rohbox/SRAM brifter setup and it seemed to work great. The test ride was only 15-20 minutes, so it wasn't a full ride, but there were a couple of small hills involved and the bike seemed to shift just fine seated or standing. The gear range was much wider than any road or cross bike I have ever ridden, which seemed appealing for off pavement adventures. Just wondering what else I might need to be aware of so there are no surprises if I move forward with an order.


Hey there, Not so much an opinion but what I believe to be facts.

I did not have this particular internal geared hub but did have another one. Mine was Shimano and it was 8 speed if I remember correctly. I used it for commuting on hilly, but nothing serious, terrain. Getting groceries, ride around town, that sort of stuff. I liked it a lot with the one exception of it being a pain when I got a flat. It wasn't that big a deal but I found it more difficult to change a tube than with a der. set up. That was worth the trade off for it being totally worry free and immune to rain, muck, snow or whatever. Great for commuting. Set it and forget it, so to speak. And commuting I used really tough tires so the flat tire changing negative was minimized to the point it was pretty much a non factor. 
The gear range was all I needed and then some. Range is one thing and what's in between is another though. For performance riding I would have been mostly okay with the range but not with the big gaps in between. If I were to describe what I used it for in one word I'd say; utilitarian. It was great for that.

The negatives I mentioned above only had to do with using an internal hub for a bike where 'performance' riding is the top priority. Internal hubs are great for what they are designed for.

Shifting was great. I wasn't trying to imply it wasn't but noting it can't be shifted under load without eventually ruining the thing. On a utilitarian bike I didn't care, but would on a bike I wanted to race or do spirited rides on. (not that shifting under load with a der. is a good idea either but it's far less risky and gear destroying than with an internal)


----------



## mikerp

Goodbye to My Belt-Drive Rohloff Bike - VeloNews.com
As you mentioned the Rohloff has a wide range, with evenly spaced gears throughout the range. An externally geared bike will typically have a smaller overall range with tighter gearing at the top end.


----------

