# Campy Comp Triple gruppo on 1973 Schwinn Super Sport



## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

I've always liked the fillet brazed chromoly Schwinn Super Sports, Sports Tourers, and Superiors of the sixties and seventies, and in June I picked up a 24" 1973 Super Sport off of eBay for $200 with the intention of stripping and repainting the frameset with correct period decals, then putting a new Campy Comp Triple (30-42-53) 10-speed (IRD 12-32 cassette) gruppo with Centaur Ergo shifters on it. The gearing gives me a huge range from 24.7 gear-inches (30-32) to 116.5 gear-inches (53-12). Here are some photos with everything on the frame except brake and derailleur cables, chain, and pedals. Weight as shown is 24.03 pounds. This isn't too bad for a 24" straight gauge fillet brazed 4130 frameset. I'm hoping to bring it in under 26 pounds ready to ride.

Before:










After:


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

holy cow


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## Squidward (Dec 18, 2005)

What did you do to adapt the American bottom bracket to European style?

That's a nice bike you have there.


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

Squidward said:


> What did you do to adapt the American bottom bracket to European style?
> 
> That's a nice bike you have there.


Thanks!

I used the TruVativ American to Euro BB conversion kit..


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## Reynolds531 (Nov 8, 2002)

Stan--That's really nice. The fillet brazing around the bottom bracket looks too good. Did you do some filing before you had it painted?

Where did you get the stem adapter? I'm using a hand filed Nitto Periscopa on my 1973 s
ports Tourer. I'd like to replace it..


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

Reynolds531 said:


> Stan--That's really nice. The fillet brazing around the bottom bracket looks too good. Did you do some filing before you had it painted?
> 
> Where did you get the stem adapter? I'm using a hand filed Nitto Periscopa on my 1973 s
> ports Tourer. I'd like to replace it..


Thanks!

I didn't touch the the fillet brazed joints; they're just like they left the factory (when I got the bike it still had the original factory Opaque Blue paint job).

The stem adapter is the Velo-Orange threadless stem adapter. I've been using one on my Waterford and like them a lot. They're much stiffer (less flexy) than the Nitto Technomic quill stem I had been using.

Because the adapters are cylindrical, they're ideal for turning on a lathe. A local machine shop charged me $20 to do a professional job of shaving the diameter from 22.2mm to 21.1mm so it would fit the Super Sport fork steerer tube.

Here's a photo showing (left to right) the OEM 21.1mm stem, the V-O adapter shaved to 21.1mm with threadless stem, and a stock 22.2mm V-O adapter. I used the quill from the OEM stem.


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

It's finished except for a down tube clamp-on cable guide for the front derailleur cable. Weight as shown is 26.36 pounds. I didn't quite meet my 25 pound goal, but it's close enough, and not bad at all for a straight gauge CrMo frame with a triple. The cable guide should be here early in the week. The photos show it in low gear (30t chainring and 32t cog) since the FD cable isn't hooked up yet.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 20, 2007)

Wow.

Here`s a silly question for you- I thought you`d put Nitto rando bars or similar on there, but looking back to the top pic, it seems they were the stock bars. Did wide flares go through a popular period in the early 70s? Oh yeah- and what are you planning to do with all those (24.7 to 116.5) gears?


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

rodar y rodar said:


> Wow.
> 
> Here`s a silly question for you- I thought you`d put Nitto rando bars or similar on there, but looking back to the top pic, it seems they were the stock bars. Did wide flares go through a popular period in the early 70s? Oh yeah- and what are you planning to do with all those (24.7 to 116.5) gears?


Thanks!

Yep; they're the original GB randonneur bars, and that outward flare to the drops was popular in the early seventies. The drops are 42cm c-t-c, so they should work OK for me.

I have some 44cm Nitto 177 noodle bars that I'll probably wind up putting on this bike, but if I do that I'll have to redo the Ergo shifter and brake cables since I cut everything for the stock bars.

Re the wide gearing, we have some really steep climbs around here, but I also wanted to be able to ride fast on the flats.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 20, 2007)

Cool. Say, I know you`re a Schwinn nut, and I`m wondering about something else Schwinn related. My touring bike/ general daily workhorse is built on a Schwinn frame and I often get comments to the effect of "Just goes to show that even a Schwinn can get the job done". It`s as if the brand were nothing but garbage and the fact that I`ve got a decent bike which happens to be a nonParamount Schwinn is some kind of oddity in the world. I won`t even ask whether you hear that sentiment, but do you ever get tired of it? Do you ever try to defend Schwinn, or just let it roll off? Of course, there are always the (old) people who remember Schwinn as being something actually worth lusting for, but they usually seem to be folks I tend to ignore anyway :blush2: .


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

Hmmm...

My dad was a regional sales manager in the southeast U.S. for Schwinn over a thirty year period during the fifties, sixties, and seventies. Although I developed a healthy respect for the company and its products during that period, I'm not an apologist for Schwinn. The company management made some bonehead decisions in the eighties that led to the 1993 bankruptcy, and the subsequent owners (Scott Sports, then Pacific Cycle, and Dorel Industries) have also made their share of boo-boos.

I think, though, that Schwinn customers have received fair value for their money over the 114 year history of the company. Schwinn has always sold safe, quality products at a given price point whether that product is a child's bike from a big box store or a custom Paramount competitive with the very best bicycles in the global marketplace.

I do get tired of the bashing, but I understand how the perception of the brand has changed over time under different ownership, management and marketing strategies. While I'll discuss the company and its history with anyone, I don't think I'm overly sensitive to objective criticism.


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## Reynolds531 (Nov 8, 2002)

rodar y rodar said:


> Cool. Say, I know you`re a Schwinn nut, and I`m wondering about something else Schwinn related. My touring bike/ general daily workhorse is built on a Schwinn frame and I often get comments to the effect of "Just goes to show that even a Schwinn can get the job done". It`s as if the brand were nothing but garbage and the fact that I`ve got a decent bike which happens to be a nonParamount Schwinn is some kind of oddity in the world. I won`t even ask whether you hear that sentiment, but do you ever get tired of it? Do you ever try to defend Schwinn, or just let it roll off? Of course, there are always the (old) people who remember Schwinn as being something actually worth lusting for, but they usually seem to be folks I tend to ignore anyway :blush2: .


When I ride my 1973 Sports Tourer I get a lot of positive comments. 

Chicago Schwinn Quality is easy to explain--lifetime durability in the face of real-world abuse. So, the bikes weigh a few pounds more, but you can't dent the toptube of a non-Paramount Schwinn unless you try--and try really hard. You can't break a fillet-brazed internally-reinforced bottom bracket joint by mashing at 30 rpm for 50,000 miles (nor an electroforged one). You can't make the 12 oz solid steel kickstand rattle. And the paint is dramatically better than other production bikes from that era.


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

Reynolds531 said:


> When I ride my 1973 Sports Tourer I get a lot of positive comments.
> 
> Chicago Schwinn Quality is easy to explain--lifetime durability in the face of real-world abuse. So, the bikes weigh a few pounds more, but you can't dent the toptube of a non-Paramount Schwinn unless you try--and try really hard. You can't break a fillet-brazed internally-reinforced bottom bracket joint by mashing at 30 rpm for 50,000 miles (nor an electroforged one). You can't make the 12 oz solid steel kickstand rattle. And the paint is dramatically better than other production bikes from that era.


Very well said.

When I had the Super Sport stripped for painting I weighed the frame and fork. I was actually somewhat surprised that frame weight (no headset or BB cups) was only 7.05 pounds, and the fork (no bearing race) was 1.96 pounds. That isn't bad for a 24" straight gauge 4130 CrMo frame. The total weight of the bike as received from the seller, but without the headlight, tail light and generator was 35 pounds. The weight of the bike rebuilt with the new components (including the relatively heavy Brooks Professional saddle and 36 spoke 3-cross 700C wheels with Open Pro alloy rims is 26.36 pounds. That is very close to the weight of my 1972 24" P15-9 chrome Paramount (with Campy triple) which has a Reynolds 531 double-butted frame.

I have had friends who weigh about 350 pounds and want to take up cycling to lose weight and get healthier. I always recommend they look around for a sixties/seventies fillet brazed Schwinn Super Sport, Sports Tourer, or Superior. They're built like a brick outhouse and can easily accommodate a rider weight of 350 pounds for virtually any kind of riding.


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## RandoAndy (Aug 30, 2009)

Wow. When I read your first post I thought you were nuts. I was surprised at the weight of the bike with the original equipment. Less than I remembered.

With the paint and parts it looks GREAT. The BB was my first question but someone has already made a fix for that I see.

I too have been using the VO threadless adapter and stem. It's taller, stiffer and less expensive than the Nitto. It looks like on yours you could turn it over and but a bit more of the stem adpater back in the steering tube.

Nice Job.


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

As it is, there are 2 1/2 inches in the steerer, so it's below minimum insertion. I could flip the stem and it would probably make it a little stiffer, but flipped 17° stems look dorky to me.


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## RandoAndy (Aug 30, 2009)

You're right. The 17 degree one would look a bit like the new style bikes. I had to re-check what I put on my bike. It was the 6 degree model. In the up position it looks fine. Again nice job on the restoration and enhancement of your bike.
Andy


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## Bone-head (Oct 30, 2007)

*Quill*

Can you give a measurement from top of headset nut to bottom of quill ( bellow stem ) ?. I have a 1993 Waterford paramount with nitto stem. Looking to raise stem for options/comfort. Great picture looks very clean

Randy


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

Bone-head said:


> Can you give a measurement from top of headset nut to bottom of quill ( bellow stem ) ?. I have a 1993 Waterford paramount with nitto stem. Looking to raise stem for options/comfort. Great picture looks very clean
> 
> Randy


Randy, I'm not sure how to answer your question except to show some photos.

If you're just looking at raising the handlebar for a more upright riding position, it's hard to beat the Nitto Technomic. You could use the V-O threadless adapter, but it doesn't have the length of the Technomic, and the minimum insertion line on both the V-O adapter and the Technomic is 3" above the bottom of the quill. To get a higher handlebar height with the V-O threadless adapter, you could use a flipped 17° threadless stem on the adapter.

Here is the V-O threadless adapter with a 6° stem (not flipped) showing the length of the adapter and the minimum insertion line:










Here is a Nitto Technomic stem beside the V-O adapter and 6° stem. The Technomic stem is significantly taller that the V-O adapter.










Hope this helps.


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## Bone-head (Oct 30, 2007)

*Stem*

Hey Scoop

Thx for all info.....


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## kyost (Jun 1, 2010)

*Some More Questions ...*

I'm starting a similar job on 26" 1972 Super Sport, since I had an Opaque Green '72 when I was a kid and have decided to resurrect one (with many improvements). A few questions:

1. Any problems with bottom bracket shell width once you installed the adaptor? The shell on my bike is about 65mm, and modern cranks expect a 68mm width.

2. What are you using for the rear derailleur hanger?

3. Do you (or anyone) have any experience with the adapters to convert 32.7mm headtubes to 30.2 to allow using standard 1" threaded headsets? 

4. Has anyone reamed one of these frames successfully out to 27.2mm to take a more commonly available seatpost, or have all you restorers just hunted down a 26.8mm?

5. What did you use for a downtube derailleur cable guide?

Thanks in advance - I hope mine turns out as well as yours -


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

kyost said:


> I'm starting a similar job on 26" 1972 Super Sport, since I had an Opaque Green '72 when I was a kid and have decided to resurrect one (with many improvements). A few questions:
> 
> 1. Any problems with bottom bracket shell width once you installed the adaptor? The shell on my bike is about 65mm, and modern cranks expect a 68mm width.


No problems. The adapter has flanges on each side of the BB shell that make the effective width approximately 68mm.












kyost said:


> 2. What are you using for the rear derailleur hanger?


I used a SunRace hanger. 



kyost said:


> 3. Do you (or anyone) have any experience with the adapters to convert 32.7mm headtubes to 30.2 to allow using standard 1" threaded headsets?


I just used the OEM headset. 



kyost said:


> 4. Has anyone reamed one of these frames successfully out to 27.2mm to take a more commonly available seatpost, or have all you restorers just hunted down a 26.8mm?


I used a silver Thomson Elite 26.8mm seatpost; they are readily available. I bought mine from JensonUSA.



kyost said:


> 5. What did you use for a downtube derailleur cable guide?


I used the Campy double down tube cable guide 626/A (purchased from Lickton's. Because it's sized for 28.6mm down tubes, I had to replace the bolt with a longer one.










Hope this helps.


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## kyost (Jun 1, 2010)

Stan: thanks for the quick reply and the pictures. I'll start posting pictures as it progresses, but the game plan is Campy Centaur, Campy Vento Silver wheels, Deda stem and handlebars, and a replacement chrome 4130 fork so I don't have to fiddle with 0.833 stems. Headset, saddle, and seatpost are TBD, but I see Peter White sells a very nice Nitto S-65 post in 26.8. 

Nonetheless, your documenting your project has saved a ton of work ...


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## tfh909 (Jun 28, 2012)

This is a great Super Sport. I have a 1973 that I bought new and I am thinking that a project like this would be interesting. I have seen another thread where you talk about cold setting the frame and aligning the dropouts. Very complete and a beautiful bike. Where do you find the Schwinn Decals these days?

Any thoughts on this bike after 3 years?


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

tfh909 said:


> This is a great Super Sport. I have a 1973 that I bought new and I am thinking that a project like this would be interesting. I have seen another thread where you talk about cold setting the frame and aligning the dropouts. Very complete and a beautiful bike. Where do you find the Schwinn Decals these days?
> 
> Any thoughts on this bike after 3 years?


Thanks!

I bought the decals from JR at Velocals.

It's still a great ride, and I've been using it as a training bike in the Marin Headlands to prepare for weeklong tours like AIDS/LifeCycle ride that involves significant climbing.


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## mtnroadie (Jul 6, 2010)

Never thought I would see a modern Campy group on a Chicago Schwinn, or any Schwinn for that matter (Paramount’s excluded). 

But damn that is really cool! Especially the bottom bracket solution. Great fillet brazed frame + fresh paint + modern campy group = hands down the most unique Neo-Retro bike on this site!


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## bike rookie (Jul 22, 2012)

Are you using a VO Threadless Stem 31.8, +/-17 deg rise ?


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

bike rookie said:


> Are you using a VO Threadless Stem 31.8, +/-17 deg rise ?


It's a V-O ±17° threadless stem that fits on a 28.6mm (1-1/8") steerer, or in my case the V-O 28.6mm threadless adapter.


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## crossracer (Jun 21, 2004)

I just used one of the bottom bracket conversions on a new schwinn seven speed that the guy wanted a tripple up front. The darn thing worked great. No issues at alll. 

Bill


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## bike rookie (Jul 22, 2012)

I also have my 1973 Schwinn Super Sport I brought new. I have a extra Shimano 105 Group Set that i was thinking of putting on my bike. Can you see any problems that I could run into before i start this project ?


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## tfh909 (Jun 28, 2012)

I know this is a very old post. I inquired back in 2012 and have begun in earnest working on my 1973 Super Sport that I bought new. So if you can still help I would appreciate it. I have the Bottom Bracket conversion done and I have acquired a campy down tube guide on E Bay. Those are seeming like some of the critical elements to source
1. Did you have to put on long reach brakes for your conversion? The pictures don't look like it.
2. I am still debating Shimano vs Campy. I run Record on my Legend Ti and I have Ultegra Triple on an older Allez Sport. So I am familiar with both. I like the idea of Campy. Bike shops are trying to steer me to Shimano though. Thoughts?
3. I also seem to be running into issues finding silver wheels that will work with the 11 speeds. So I am thinking about Veloce 10 speed? Again you thoughts if any.
4. I am also getting some feedback that I can do the 130mm rear without cold setting the frame. Is this a dicey proposition? Seems so if I end up with a flat.

Thanks


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## KensBikes (Feb 6, 2005)

thf909,

I don't want to speak for Scoop, but I have dealt with the issues you raise on other bikes I have, so I'd like to chime in.

1. In your shoes, I would imitate what Scooper did, in choosing brake calipers.

2. I think most shops recommend Shimano because it is more available and more of the techs know what to do with it. I had Campy 3x11 installed (purchased through the LBS) at one of our best local bike shops on a new custom frame for my wife. They have not been able to get it working well, after three return visits. I gave up on having them take care of it. I'm really glad i made sure they gave me the booklets, because I could see they had not followed Campy's instructions. I re-adjusted all of it per Campy, and now it works. I also have a lot of experience with Campy 3xX systems, so I know what to expect from them.

3. The only Campagnolo hubs available new are black Record hubs, which will work for 9, 10, and 11 using Campy cassettes. They are fantastic, i have them on two bikes, but not made in silver. There are no new Veloce hubs. Another bike I have has a silver Record hubset last sold in 2004, and they are also superb. You'll have to look for a set used.

4. Cold-setting is a perennial debate. There should be no risk of frame damage if you have the frame cold-set by a capable tech who knows how to do it. I've found that if I don't cold set, it is possible to get the wheel in but sometimes a pain and frustrating. I get my frames cold-set. I like having the wheel just slip in exactly where it should be. I also like to have the frame ends aligned correctly to be perpendicular with the bearings, because I like to minimize the stress in the bearings and axles, since the parts are usually quite old and hard to replace.


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## orbeamike (Nov 20, 2004)

Shimano 11spd hubs/cassette combo is compatible with Campy 11spd. In fact, 11spd wheels are completely interchangeable between Shimano, SRAM and Campy. You can still build up wheels using any silver 11 spd hubs and it will work.


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## GKSki (Nov 12, 2014)

Sorry for being very late to the conversation. I had a Supersport new in the late 60's/70's. It was a gorgeous, lustrous deep brown metallic. It too had gorgeous fillet brazing especially around the bottom bracket. I converted to a modern crank even back in the 70's as there was a solution but I cannot recall the part. The rear derailleur hanger was a different story as it had Huret forged dropouts matched to the Huet derailleur. Their stops were French and in a completely different place than the Italian or Japanese derailleurs. I had to machine a conversion piece as I wanted to use a Suntour VXGT rear derailleur. 

I was going to ask what you used for cable stops for the Ergopower, but then I recalled that this bicycle came with stem shifters and the downtube braze on cable stops. I also remember that there was a trick in getting the spring-loaded kickstand out. It must have weighed 3 pounds.


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## tfh909 (Jun 28, 2012)

Finally after beginning to look at your post 5 years ago I have completed the conversion of my 1973 Super Sport. Your post made things infinitely easier. Thanks

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/retro-classic/campy-record-1973-schwinn-super-sport-361384.html


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