# Pro Women



## pr0230 (Jun 4, 2004)

REcently I attended the Philadelphia Pro race. Ten laps up the WALL for the men. Women also race , five laps up the wall for them. 

While I believe women cannot by any means keep up with the pros (men) , why is there NO segment of racing for women, in the GIRO, TDF, spring classics... Or am I wrong.... 

I would love to see coverage for women... 

BTW - at the wall in manayunk, the women ride up the wall just like the men... Impressive!


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

pr0230 said:


> REcently I attended the Philadelphia Pro race. Ten laps up the WALL for the men. Women also race , five laps up the wall for them.
> 
> While I believe women cannot by any means keep up with the pros (men) , why is there NO segment of racing for women, in the GIRO, TDF, spring classics... Or am I wrong....
> 
> ...


Be careful here - you obviously are not riding with the right women!!!!
Why wouldn't they??!!


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Several races are run double up like Philly, Flanders and Fletch are the two that spring to mind, but they rarely show anything more than the final few mins (if you are lucky). There is no more women's TdF the Giro De Donna (women's tour of Italy) still exists but is run at a different time from the mens. The sad fact is that the women very rarely get the coverage they deserve their races are ofter just exciting (some times more exciting) than the men's. 

Because the fields as smaller and the talent level varies more in the pack the dynamics and tactics are different which leads to some confusion watching them in comparison to the men's races. Add to the fact that no matter how you cut it there is a perception that women don't matter so getting coverage that would lead to more attention (and money) is hard, its a bit of chicken and egg problem. 

I say all this from the perspective of someone that helped run a US elite women's program for 8 years.


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## davidof (May 9, 2012)

Pat McQuaid hates women's road racing

here is a calendar of the main euro events this year, you can watch a lot of them on youtube

Calendrier - Vienne-Futuroscope - Equipe Cycliste UCI

In NA there's stuff like the Redlands Classic which attracts some of the Euro lady pros.


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## veloduffer (Aug 26, 2004)

It's a matter of sponsor/$$ and women pro sports don't attract the same level of $$ or media coverage (eg. LPGA, WNBA). Only women pro tennis does well but most big events are combined.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

veloduffer said:


> It's a matter of sponsor/$$ and women pro sports don't attract the same level of $$ or media coverage (eg. LPGA, WNBA). Only women pro tennis does well but most big events are combined.


This is a chicken and egg issue, you can get coverage with out big money sponsors you can't get big money sponsors without coverage. 

Round and round and round you go. I did this deal for 8 years getting and trying to get money for a team the constant question was where will they get seen.


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## Mosovich (Feb 3, 2004)

*Right on the money...*

I'm hosting a friend that is VERY connected or literally, IS the connection in women's pro cycling and hosted an event for TIBCO Wed night here at eht National Championships.. It was a GREAT event and what so many people stated at the end was that they never knew women's cycling was so much like the mens.. IE: The training, racing, sacrifices, but that the recognition, PAY and respect is so much lower. Could you imagine Pro Tour team riders building their bikes when they arrive to an event?? Many of the women have to help do this.. Could you imagine the men cooking their own meals?? The women do.. Oh, and here's the the kicker.. Imagine a Pro Tour rider working a job on the side?? The women do and these are the PROs, not amateurs we're talking about... It's a real shame.. These women from what I've experienced, are SO much more cooler than the guys, have no egos and are VERY well educated and professional in every aspect..



32and3cross said:


> This is a chicken and egg issue, you can get coverage with out big money sponsors you can't get big money sponsors without coverage.
> 
> Round and round and round you go. I did this deal for 8 years getting and trying to get money for a team the constant question was where will they get seen.


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

The thing I most enjoy about women's racing - aside from a pack of hot chicks in kits - is that they are COMPETITIVE!!!! In almost all cases, they are friends...sisters. They race friendly, tactically, with heart and don't get or, rarely get into all the dick measuring BS!!! In all the years I've watched women racing - and, I've raced in the day of Marianne Burgland, Rebecca Twigg, etc. - they have always raced clean, hard races!!! Some of us guys could learn a thing or two from the girls!!!! Oh, and, there is this...


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## allison (Apr 19, 2006)

Andy Pancroft said:


> Oh, and, there is this...


She has rad legs.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

davidof said:


> Pat McQuaid hates women's road racing.


That may be true, but I don't think that's the whole reason that there is no comparison of men and women's pro budgets.

My .02 is that it comes down to two things:

1) people want to see the best, the fastest. That's the men ProTour guys. Compare budgets of women pro teams to US domestic pro's, or even pro/am cat 1 teams... comparable? In other sports there are similar budget grades as you go down the pecking order. 

2) plain old sexism - in favor of big budgets (beach volleyball and other sports that sell sex as much sport whether they admit it or not). 

So, unless the pro women peloton decides to start racing in bikini's or tri tops... I don't think things are changing soon.


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

allison said:


> She has rad legs.


Yes she does...she is the bomb-diggity!!!


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## wgp (Oct 4, 2005)

Who IS she?! Those are amazing legs allright -


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## PG_Gary (Jan 21, 2008)

pr0230 said:


> why is there NO segment of racing for women, in the GIRO, TDF, spring classics... Or am I wrong....
> 
> I would love to see coverage for women...


The women's racing scene isn't as large as the men's, nor as widely publicized, but it's still great racing. Quite a few of the major men's event have a women's race. We were at the Tour of Flanders this year and the women came through about 30 minutes before the men. Sometimes the races are the same day, some are a completely different time. I think the timing of the women's Giro coincides with the men's TdF.

There used to be a female Tour de France, but it was discontinued 1 - 2 years ago.

It would be nice if some of the larger American stage races had a female equivalent (Tour of California, Tour of Utah, Tour of Colorado).


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## jeffmuldoon (Aug 12, 2011)

My coach is a Pro and she is unbelievable. Her attitude is awesome and she lays a spanking down on most guys I've seen her ride with. She obviously races a lot but the fields around here are a lot smaller than the mens fields. She often races with the mens Pro/1/2 and hangs in with them but its crazy how much faster the men are. That being said the women's races are certainly slower but are just as much fun to watch.


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## vismitananda (Jan 16, 2011)

In the city where I live there is this girl who's a triathlete, and won every race she participated better then the men.

I guess there are some women who are in caliber and can race toe to toe with those men in pro peloton.


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

jeffmuldoon said:


> My coach is a Pro and she is unbelievable. Her attitude is awesome and she lays a spanking down on most guys I've seen her ride with. She obviously races a lot but the fields around here are a lot smaller than the mens fields. She often races with the mens Pro/1/2 and hangs in with them but its crazy how much faster the men are. That being said the women's races are certainly slower but are just as much fun to watch.


As I said previously, you're watching the wrong women!!! Difference often is, women aren't riding to measure their genitals!! I have to laugh at those who continually talk about how much "Slower women are"!!! Does that mean you believe you are faster!!?? You all know you HATE when a women overtakes you - you know who you are!!  Here's a couple examples of how much slower and weaker women are!!


British Womens National Road Race Championship 2011 - YouTube
Giro Donne 2011 - Stage 2 - YouTube
Womens Cycling road race GP Elsy Jacobs - YouTube


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## pr0230 (Jun 4, 2004)

*Im straight! But...*



allison said:


> She has rad legs.


I wish I had her legs!


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## davidof (May 9, 2012)

*French Pros*

Talking of women pros, look who is French National Champion today, none other than Futuroscope Pro Marion Rousse

http://bikechicks.net/2012/06/23/queen-of-the-road/

http://bikechicks.net/tag/marion-rousse/

if you click on "info" there is quite a bit of extra stuff about Rousse.

and second was Jules Krasniak

both CyclePassion babes


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

Mara Abbot won the Giro De Donna, what, 2 years ago? She's no longer in the pro peloton in Europe. I don't know if that is a personal choice or not, but if a male grand tour champ hung it up or couldn't find a team within 2 it would be all over cycling news or velonews.


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## wblas3271 (May 12, 2012)

Andy Pancroft said:


> As I said previously, you're watching the wrong women!!! Difference often is, women aren't riding to measure their genitals!! I have to laugh at those who continually talk about how much "Slower women are"!!! *Does that mean you believe you are faster!!??* You all know you HATE when a women overtakes you - you know who you are!!  Here's a couple examples of how much slower and weaker women are!!
> 
> 
> British Womens National Road Race Championship 2011 - YouTube
> ...


No. It means that the average speeds of women's pro races are slower than that of the men. It's not sexism at work, it's physiology. Men and Women are built differently, you see.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

wblas3271 said:


> No. It means that the average speeds of women's pro races are slower than that of the men. It's not sexism at work, it's physiology. Men and Women are built differently, you see.


This is an accurate statement. Also women's teams are usually smaller and the talent level is not as even through out the field.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*and a steel Merckx*



allison said:


> She has rad legs.


that gal has win written everywhere


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

Here in Denver, we have an unsanctioned "crit" that happens every Tues and Thursday. The pace is right around 30-32 mph. The draw varies from 50 to sometimes 75+ riders. We REGULARLY see women who come out and hang with this ride!! So, sorry fellas, I don't buy that the girls can't hang!!


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## CheapTrek (Dec 23, 2011)

32and3cross said:


> This is an accurate statement. Also women's teams are usually smaller and the talent level is not as even through out the field.


While this may all be true, for some reason I'm getting nostalgic and miss the PG forum. 

Sigh.


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## wblas3271 (May 12, 2012)

Andy Pancroft said:


> Here in Denver, we have an unsanctioned "crit" that happens every Tues and Thursday. The pace is right around 30-32 mph. The draw varies from 50 to sometimes 75+ riders. We REGULARLY see women who come out and hang with this ride!! So, sorry fellas, I don't buy that the girls can't hang!!



It's important to differentiate between professional level athletes and your local crit. 
For instance. LOTS of women could beat me in a race. However, I'm not a professional cyclist. We aren't talking about me. We are talking about Pro Vs. Pro. Pro men are faster. There are a variety of factors which contribute to this.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Andy Pancroft said:


> Here in Denver, we have an unsanctioned "crit" that happens every Tues and Thursday. The pace is right around 30-32 mph. The draw varies from 50 to sometimes 75+ riders. We REGULARLY see women who come out and hang with this ride!! So, sorry fellas, I don't buy that the girls can't hang!!


same thing here. 

but.

sitting in a crit and driving the front are two very different things. 

and

there are only a handful of women that can even manage to sit in a flat crit with the p-1-2 crowd.

it's just genetics.


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

wblas3271 said:


> It's important to differentiate between professional level athletes and your local crit.
> For instance. LOTS of women could beat me in a race. However, I'm not a professional cyclist. We aren't talking about me. We are talking about Pro Vs. Pro. Pro men are faster. There are a variety of factors which contribute to this.


Just to clarify...this local ride I speak of regularly sees vans from the Olympic Training Center, Garmin riders, Holowesko riders, Livestrong U23 riders, Tyler Hamilton, Phinney, etc.(Denver/Boulder has a HUGE pro athlete contingent) Most all of these woman are pro riders and do just fine with these boys!!! I get that men races are faster, I've been racing for 30 years and have seen loads of FAST women and men!!! Point is, the OP stated women could no way keep up with the pro men...pro women here seem to do just fine keeping up with the boys here!!!! And, you kinda validated some of my thinking...those of who steadfastly talking about how slow the girls are, are likely not racing at all!!

And, to just make you aware of the difference in your local crit and mine...here is a pic from one of our local, weekly crits, from one of our local photogs...recognize anyone!!!?? Just be aware that, just because someone racing your local crit isn't wearing a Garmin kit doesn't mean he couldn't be!! There are PLENTY of riders racing local races that could easily compete at a UCI level!


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

atpjunkie said:


> *and a steel Merckx
> *that gal has win written everywhere



I don't see a bike _at all_  !


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Andy Pancroft said:


> Just to clarify...this local ride I speak of regularly sees vans from the Olympic Training Center, Garmin riders, Holowesko riders, Livestrong U23 riders, Tyler Hamilton, Phinney, etc.(Denver/Boulder has a HUGE pro athlete contingent) Most all of these woman are pro riders and do just fine with these boys!!! I get that men races are faster, I've been racing for 30 years and have seen loads of FAST women and men!!! Point is, the OP stated women could no way keep up with the pro men...pro women here seem to do just fine keeping up with the boys here!!!!


You can spin this any way you want but literally there might be a handful (if any) professional women racers that could finish the Tour De France inside the time cut, if they finish at all. It doesn't mean they aren't fast they just aren't Pro Tour men fast. Ask them, they will be the first to admit it.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Go over to YouTube and check out the 2011 Giro Donne. Fierce racing!


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## wblas3271 (May 12, 2012)

Andy Pancroft said:


> Just to clarify...this local ride I speak of regularly sees vans from the Olympic Training Center, Garmin riders, Holowesko riders, Livestrong U23 riders, Tyler Hamilton, Phinney, etc.(Denver/Boulder has a HUGE pro athlete contingent) Most all of these woman are pro riders and do just fine with these boys!!! I get that men races are faster, I've been racing for 30 years and have seen loads of FAST women and men!!! Point is, the OP stated women could no way keep up with the pro men...pro women here seem to do just fine keeping up with the boys here!!!!



His point was they couldn't keep up with pro men_ in a pro race._ Which is true, they can't. While pros may go to your crit, that doesn't make it a pro race. Ya know?

For instance, look at the average speed for the 2012 Giro Men Vs. Women. Men were not only faster, but they were faster over a greater distance.


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## riverc0il (May 10, 2009)

The speed of the racers is irrelevant. If you were to watch a pro mens and pro womens race back to back (on TV or in person), are you really going to be able to tell the difference in a few MPH? They are both riding at really fast speeds. I doubt I could tell the difference.

Womens sports always gets less focus than mens except in a few rare exceptions that have women in skimpy outfits (think vollyball, skating, etc.). It is a shame in cycling as it is one of the few sports in which there really isn't a major difference. Top and average speeds are going to be slightly less in womens but for all practical purposes, everything else is the exact same. Especially considering speed, even for mens, is relative to the peleton on any given day (i.e. men will be a lot slower on a windy or rainy day).


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

All of the Women's Races I have seen have been really entertaining. If it were on TV I would definitely watch.


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

wblas3271 said:


> His point was they couldn't keep up with pro men_ in a pro race._ Which is true, they can't. While pros may go to your crit, that doesn't make it a pro race. Ya know?
> 
> For instance, look at the average speed for the 2012 Giro Men Vs. Women. Men were not only faster, but they were faster over a greater distance.


No,I don't know!! I regularly ride in races with "Pros"...I regularly find myself ascending next to "Pros" - men and women...do you!!!???

I have to LOL at this thread and some of the replies!!!! Just validates my point that some of the men racing or just riding (Those who drop $10k on a 13 lb bike and don't race it!! Yeah, it's REALLY neato that you think your bike is cool and only 13 lbs but, if you were really all race, as your wearing of a pro kit, riding around on $2k 40mm CF wheels WOULD suggest, you would realize that your 13 lb bike isn't even legal to race!!) 

Someday, some of you who come out and speak of how slow the women are compared to the guys, might take a vacation and come visit us in Denver/Boulder where some of the fastest bikes are not those who ride your local crit!! It's been the same thing over the years...ever since I started racing in '79; the girls race last because some guys think they are speedy and better riders than the girls. I would love to see those of you talking smack to roll up here to the altitude and even sit on the wheel of some of the girls who roll around up here! Ya know!!??


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## DM.Aelis (Jun 19, 2007)

Andy Pancroft said:


> I would love to see those of you talking smack to roll up here to the altitude and even sit on the wheel of some of the girls who roll around up here! Ya know!!??


Andy, nobody here is "talking smack". You're hyper-defensive about a very uncontroversial fact: pro men are generally faster than pro women for physiological reasons, much like men's forearms are generally stronger than women's forearms.

Imagine two overlapping standard, normal distributions of ability, with the men's median aligned further to the right of the women's median. There are MANY women faster than the men residing in the middle and left tail of the men's distribution. But there are basically NO women faster than the men in the right tail of the men's distribution; these are the ProTour riders everyone is talking about.

The wonderful thing is that women's racing is still awesome, and Evelyn Stevens is still smoking hot, even if they're not as fast as pro men.


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

DM.Aelis said:


> Andy, nobody here is "talking smack". You're hyper-defensive about a very uncontroversial fact: pro men are generally faster than pro women for physiological reasons, much like men's forearms are generally stronger than women's forearms.
> 
> Imagine two overlapping standard, normal distributions of ability, with the men's median aligned further to the right of the women's median. There are MANY women faster than the men residing in the middle and left tail of the men's distribution. But there are basically NO women faster than the men in the right tail of the men's distribution; these are the ProTour riders everyone is talking about.
> 
> The wonderful thing is that women's racing is still awesome, and Evelyn Stevens is still smoking hot, even if they're not as fast as pro men.


And, it continues...degenerate to how hot she is!!!

Whatever!! You guys have fun!! And, again, you're always invited to come up in altitude a few thousand feet and shows the girls up here how fast and manly you are!!! LOL


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

The irony is that due to a broader talent range and less organized teams, womens racing is significantly more exciting. More attacks, more chance for a massive comeback, few teams riding tempo to control a race (especially in the crit- heavy US circuit).


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Andy Pancroft said:


> And, it continues...degenerate to how hot she is!!!
> 
> Whatever!! You guys have fun!! And, again, you're always invited to come up in altitude a few thousand feet and shows the girls up here how fast and manly you are!!! LOL


at least your riding abilities appears to be better than your reading comprehension. which is nice.


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

Andy Pancroft said:


> And, it continues...degenerate to how hot she is!!!


I appreciate that, in order to prove your point, you ignored his statistically based analysis and focused on the ONLY part of what he said that could be argued with any level of legitimacy, and even that was said tongue in cheek.

NO ONE is arguing that _they_ are faster than the pro women, heck I'm slower than probably every last women at your local crit. However, I can still confidently argue that if the fastest women in the world were to race the TdF this year not one would be fighting for a podium. 

Would they do better than me? Of course! But can they compete at the _absolute_ highest level of the sport? No. That doesn't make women's racing any less entertaining, in fact it _is_ incredibly good racing.

Your local crit blows any race in my area out of the water, but it isn't the absolute highest level of the sport, and the male Pro's that race it are doing so for training, not because a victory there is going to change the trajectory of their career. Even so, you say that the women can "hang." How many have ever won the Pro/Cat 1 class race? My guess is none. 

This isn't demeaning, almost every single man on this forum couldn't even keep up on the first lap. They aren't claiming _they_ are better than the fastest women, they are claiming that riders like Ted King and Mikel Landa are. I don't see how you can argue against that.

Or try this. One particular test showed that elite males averaged 220W over a course in which elite females average 169W. Both are better than me, but how do they compare to each other?

It isn't sexism, it is physiology. Nothing wrong with being different.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

den bakker said:


> at least your riding abilities appears to be better than your reading comprehension. which is nice.


He lives in Colorado. Pro's race there.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Creakyknees said:


> He lives in Colorado. Pro's race there.


I think that point has been made yes, and I fail to see the relevance.


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## PDex (Mar 23, 2004)

Creakyknees said:


> He lives in Colorado. Pro's race there.


Yeah, and no where else. 

He needs to get out of state more often.


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## Wile_E_Coyote (Jul 15, 2011)

den bakker said:


> at least your riding abilities appears to be better than your reading comprehension. which is nice.


Not sure about reading comprehension, but there seems to be an inordinate amount of exclamation points...

Elaine and Mr. Lippman - Exclamation points - YouTube


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## wblas3271 (May 12, 2012)

Andy Pancroft said:


> No,I don't know!! I regularly ride in races with "Pros"...I regularly find myself ascending next to "Pros" - men and women...do you!!!???
> 
> I have to LOL at this thread and some of the replies!!!! Just validates my point that some of the men racing or just riding (Those who drop $10k on a 13 lb bike and don't race it!! Yeah, it's REALLY neato that you think your bike is cool and only 13 lbs but, if you were really all race, as your wearing of a pro kit, riding around on $2k 40mm CF wheels WOULD suggest, you would realize that your 13 lb bike isn't even legal to race!!)
> 
> Someday, some of you who come out and speak of how slow the women are compared to the guys, might take a vacation and come visit us in Denver/Boulder where some of the fastest bikes are not those who ride your local crit!! It's been the same thing over the years...ever since I started racing in '79; the girls race last because some guys think they are speedy and better riders than the girls. I would love to see those of you talking smack to roll up here to the altitude and even sit on the wheel of some of the girls who roll around up here! Ya know!!??


Well, it's pretty easy.

I guess I have to admit I don't really have any idea what you're on about anymore. Wild tangents and way too many exclamation points.

I've said it like 30 times already, but I'll say it again: We aren't "Talking smack," and we aren't talking about local race. We are talking about Protour Men Vs. Protour women in PROTOUR RACES. Nobody here has claimed to be faster than pro women.

Also, I went to law school at CU boulder.


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## Wile_E_Coyote (Jul 15, 2011)

Well let's try some actual data. ITT results from Amgen Tour of California Stage 5. Granted it was just a small invitational field for the women, but the course was the same and it was on the same day. Dave Zabriskie 35min59sec vs. Kristin Armstrong 39min59sec. That's 4 minutes difference over 18.4 miles, or about 65th (of 118) in the men's standings. Allison Powers was second for the women 1min25 back of Armstrong and would have finished about 85th or so.

Tour Of California 2012: Stage 5 Results | Cyclingnews.com

Amgen Tour Of California Women's Time Trial Results | Cyclingnews.com


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## bayAreaDude (Apr 13, 2012)

I feel like we're likely to get men's cycling coverage in the US. It's on crappy channels that you sometimes have to pay extra to get like USN and not even always in HD. Seems like the issue is lack of interest in watching cycling in general by the majority of the population.


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## PDex (Mar 23, 2004)

Wile_E_Coyote said:


> Well let's try some actual data. ITT results from Amgen Tour of California Stage 5. Granted it was just a small invitational field for the women, but the course was the same and it was on the same day. Dave Zabriskie 35min59sec vs. Kristin Armstrong 39min59sec. That's 4 minutes difference over 18.4 miles, or about 65th (of 118) in the men's standings. Allison Powers was second for the women 1min25 back of Armstrong and would have finished about 85th or so.
> 
> Tour Of California 2012: Stage 5 Results | Cyclingnews.com
> 
> Amgen Tour Of California Women's Time Trial Results | Cyclingnews.com


Since Colorado seems to be appropriate, better still is a comparison of the Colorado State TT championships. 

A 40k identical course run the same day. 
Winning time Pro 1-2 Men: 50:37.4 (Actually a U23 rider) 
Winning time Pro Women 1-2: 56:40.7 

It would have put her next to last in the category.


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## Wile_E_Coyote (Jul 15, 2011)

PDex said:


> Since Colorado seems to be appropriate, better still is a comparison of the Colorado State TT championships.
> 
> A 40k identical course run the same day.
> Winning time Pro 1-2 Men: 50:37.4 (Actually a U23 rider)
> ...


I'm sure the reply will be that they are not real pros.


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## PDex (Mar 23, 2004)

Wile_E_Coyote said:


> I'm sure the reply will be that they are not real pros.


Yeah, because Phinney doesn't hop on a plane to come home from Italy to do the State Champ TT. 

I see Taylor Shelden (Competitive Cyclist) every now and again and even he doesn't race the weekly office park crit.


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## wblas3271 (May 12, 2012)

Andy Pancroft said:


> Just to clarify...this local ride I speak of regularly sees vans from the Olympic Training Center, Garmin riders, Holowesko riders, Livestrong U23 riders, Tyler Hamilton, Phinney, etc.(Denver/Boulder has a HUGE pro athlete contingent) Most all of these woman are pro riders and do just fine with these boys!!! I get that men races are faster, I've been racing for 30 years and have seen loads of FAST women and men!!! Point is, the OP stated women could no way keep up with the pro men...pro women here seem to do just fine keeping up with the boys here!!!! And, you kinda validated some of my thinking...those of who steadfastly talking about how slow the girls are, are likely not racing at all!!
> 
> And, to just make you aware of the difference in your local crit and mine...here is a pic from one of our local, weekly crits, from one of our local photogs...recognize anyone!!!?? Just be aware that, just because someone racing your local crit isn't wearing a Garmin kit doesn't mean he couldn't be!! There are PLENTY of riders racing local races that could easily compete at a UCI level!


Thanks!!!!!!!For!!!!!!The!!!!!!!!!!!!!!info!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!It!!!!!!!!!!Realllly!!!!Helpededed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

I've watched very few pro women races, but of the ones I've seen the difference was apparent to me. They seemed more mortal (perhaps less drugs?) and so there less agression and moves. Wasn't as fun watching riders who resemble humans more. They also seemed to control their bikes, I guess I'd say, less strategically... more swerving, illogical positioning/movement, inefficient drafting. Maybe I got unlucky with the ones I watched, but now I'm getting the heck out of here before I get tarred and feathered.


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