# ANOTHER 2008 Madone thread



## brentster (Jul 12, 2007)

I made the mistake of riding a 5.2 when Trek was down in Houston for their demo tour. Now I can't sleep at night. I'm wondering about the 5.2's that are making there way to LBS's and the 5.1's that will be $400 cheaper. I've been doing a lot of reading on the net and comparing specs and can only find a few minor differences.

The* frame *is 110 vs 120 carbon fiber and is quoted by trek to save 250 grams

The *Ultegra SL*, which is basically just painted Ultegra versus chromed and I don't think looks as good and will show more scratches over the years. Its quoted by Shimano to be 70 grams lighter.

The *wheels* are Race Light - versus - Race and are quoted by Bontrager to save 130 grams.

Those are the ONLY diferences. Same fork, same bars, same saddle, same tires.

SO........for a casual 150 pound weekend rider who won't be competing but just wants to have an incredible bike, is the $400 worth it to save 1 whopping pound and to maybe gain 5% in perceived stiffness? I bet you woudn't even be able to tell them apart.

I just think the 5.1 is a much better value to the nearly identically spec'd 5.2. Am I missing something?


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

first of all you should be very happy you're riding a new and popular madone bike. $ 400 for saving a pound?? yes it's MORE than worth it. some people even willing to pay $ 1000 MORE to save 200 grams ( usually on the wheelset. weight weenie ) i did from my old Bontrager x-lite ( $ 400 ) to Zipp 404 tubular ( $ 1700 ) and i only save 400 grams ( 1690 to 1285 ) so is it worth it spending " EXTRA " $ 1300 for saving of less than a pound?? i would say yes ( eventhough i'm just a weekend warrior/commuter ) that's just me. i'm a die-hard bike fan and willing to spend alot of cash for some fancy/bling bling bike parts. infact i'm saving to buy $ 5000 frameset ONLY.


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## remixity (Jul 30, 2007)

How much are the 5.1 and 5.2?


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## brentster (Jul 12, 2007)

$2,799 & $3,199 - Bike Barn has several 5.2's


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Waaaaaaaaittttt..

You guys are talking about the sloping top tube new Madones right?

Coz there's another thread asking about the 6.5 and 6.9 madones. Like, not the SSL right i assume? Getting a tad confused. Sorry. I feel like a doofus.


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## jimmyLeggs (Jul 31, 2007)

If you were the only person in you town to have a new madone you will be very happy, however if your nieghbor or even worse, your riding buddy gets a 5.2 your going to be like crap should have spent the $400.00. Personaly I am sick of everything with color so for me its the 5.2 pro (black/white) and the 6.5 (black/silver), I have the 6.5 on order but would be vert happy with the 5.2.


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## johngfoster (Jan 14, 2005)

Brent, how about posting some pics of the bikes in question. That should help clear up a bit of the confusion.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

hate to rain on your parade but isn't kind of sad that Trek won't be in the pro teams in the near future. we the " fanz " spent alot of money supporting team disco and now they're " abandon " us?? thanks Lance!! geez!!


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## brentster (Jul 12, 2007)

*5.2*












*5.1*


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## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

$400 for a pound has to be the bargain of the year. You will hopefully be riding the bike for a long time and every time you drag that extra pound over a long climb you will second guess your decision not to spend a few extra $.

BTW the Ultegra SL is not painted. Probably just a different chomium bath used for the darker colour.


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## wiwright2 (Aug 15, 2007)

These new madone photos look a lot alike the Specialized Tarmac. Is the curvy top bar the trend of the future?


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## johngfoster (Jan 14, 2005)

wiwright2 said:


> These new madone photos look a lot alike the Specialized Tarmac. Is the curvy top bar the trend of the future?


Maybe it's just my eye, but it doesn't look like the new Madones have a "curvy top bar" to me. As far as the weight issue: my guess is most of the weight difference is in the wheels. This is a very important place to save weight. It makes a big difference. I'd spend the extra $400 if I had the money, but that's just me. The Race Lite wheels are good solid wheels.


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## wiwright2 (Aug 15, 2007)

I think you're right. It must be my eyes that are the problem!!


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## brentster (Jul 12, 2007)

*I BOUGHT THIS LAST NIGHT* Off of Craigs List. It was practically brand new for $1,700. I rode it 35 miles a little while ago on a group ride. Holy Cow!!!! Its like a Lambourghini. Sorry Madone. I would have loved you but not for $3,500 with tax.





http://feltracing.com/products/product.asp?catid=18,19,26&pid=3


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

so you bought Felt with Ultegra 10 for $ 1700?? but did you know you could've gotten 07 5.2 SL Madone ( ultegra triple ) for $ 2000 at Chainreaction.com. anyway glad you like your " Lamborghini ".

P.S: please check out the extreme down hill video ( you tube ) man, some of those roadies are insane and one of them almost, i mean almost got " sandwich ". gulp!!


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## ex2k4 (May 24, 2007)

I didn't realize how people perceived 1 pound so seriously. For 400 dollars, I wouldn' t even know the difference. I personally love the look of the 5.1

but then again... this is coming from a newbie 2100 owner. 

seriously though, 1 lb actually make that much difference in feel?


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

on the flat, you won't notice a thing but once on the mountain passes, even 100 grams ( or a quarter of a pound ) will be different. so one pound on the mountain is day and night. some even trying to shave grams off their bike ( Michael Rasmussen of former Robobank rider didn't even carry a bottle of water during the climbing )


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## AidanM (Aug 11, 2006)

mr.z ken dont you think hydration would be more important than weight? rasmussen did carry water, he just had on braze on. its also way easier to lost weight of the rider not the bike. so why spend money on fancy bikes, when you could spend less on groceries and save 5 pounds of your fat ass gut.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

that person asked the question and i only answered base on what i think. so chilled down!! would i pay $ 400 for a pound of saving?? hell yeah!! that's just me. you can do whatever you want with your money and i don't give it " f ".


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

100 grams don't matter crap to be honest on a mountain if you don't have the legs. A less heavy meal will do you better or worse depending on what you eat.

Better legs would make more difference than 100grams of weight saved on the bike.


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## brentster (Jul 12, 2007)

What you're saying sort of states the obvious. The point is you're stuck with whatever body and meal you have at the time that you hit the mountain. Will that 1/4 pound of weight savings do anything?


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

brenster: good point. i think that's what ex2k4 meant to say ( i think ) for us non pros a 100 grams or even a pound on bike don't mean much since we just ride for fun but for those of riding for paycheck, every gram count ( sorry lance. i copied your idea of " every second counts " ) i would always say imaging you were carry a book on your back while climbing on day one then the next day you climb that same road but this time WITHOUT that book. now would you " feel " the different?? i think carry " extra weights " is a great training idea b/c you'll get stronger and go faster.


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## ex2k4 (May 24, 2007)

I didn't mean to turn into a argument thread so let's calm down guys. 

That's what I meant z ken. Would it actually matter for us nonpros with small competition here and there. 100gram 200grams? 1lb.? 

For myself I still don't see the value of spending extra 400 dollars for a pound. Please keep in mind that I was a mt. biker to begin with (dealing with much heavier bikes) and i'm stilll FAR from any good road riders out there. I couldn't even tell the difference in ultegra vs. 105 or lemond's upper carbon + aluminum vs. treks' aluminum with cf seatstay and fork. 

I was just asking how some rider think of a pound vs. 400 dollars. 

I could lose a pound in a week easy ...


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

don't worry we're not argueing here. just having a " friendly " conversation. yup i agree 100 grams or 200 grams mean nothing to me. it's like having a Cliff bar at your pocket. now about a pound ( 450 grams ) i 've to say, this's my solely opinon, IS WORTH $ 400. specially on wheels. compare clinchers to tubulars wheels and we're talking close to thousand(s ) of dollar. so only framset and wheels are worth paying $ 400 for 450 grams of saving. infact some of frameset/wheels with 450 grams different usually cost WAY more than $ 400. ( more like couple thousands )


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## brentster (Jul 12, 2007)

Its OFFICIAL then. * 400 grams is worth $400*

I've had my new bike for 10 days and already wanting Mavic ES's.


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## prschatt (Aug 19, 2007)

Not to steal the topic, but I've read several threads about guy's swapping the stock 08 Madone bontrager wheels for a different setup. What's the downside of them?.


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## WhiskeyNovember (May 31, 2003)

prschatt said:


> Not to steal the topic, but I've read several threads about guy's swapping the stock 08 Madone bontrager wheels for a different setup. What's the downside of them?.


There's almost no downside to them. The Race X-Lites are lighter and stiffer than Ksyrium SLs. The Race Lites are within about 50 grams of the Ksyrium SLs, and also stiffer.

Best of all, the Bontragers come with a 5-year warranty.

<p>


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

yup i bought 06 madone 5.2 SL and then two weeks later i bought different wheels ( almost everyone here know " which wheels " i got. ) nothing against Bontrager but i just don't like their wheels, stem and handbar bar. my favorite wheels are Zipp with FSA's Plasma as my favorite stem/handle bar, which i bought last week. so far 2 thumbs up!!

Brenster: so you're getting ES?? i heard it's great wheels.


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## brentster (Jul 12, 2007)

Those are some sexy things aren't they.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

brenster: you mean ES?? if so then they are. i was thinking about buying one but i waited and saved up enough for something " faster "-Zipp 404 tubulars. if i would wait extra month i could've gotten Bora Ultra but 404 haven't let me a bit and needless to say i'm very happy.  by the way you're the one who bought " Felt " bike. lucky you as Felt will be in the peloton next year while trek will be waiting for the next team..ticking ticking


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## pjkad (Feb 4, 2004)

*Black Carbon vs. White Carbon*

All things being equal (i.e. same components and setup) what do you think would be the difference between the White Carbon lay up models vs. the Black Carbon? I'm thinking of a 64cm Madone and they are only making that size in White Carbon.


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## gormleyflyer2002 (Sep 12, 2005)

I'm in the same boat as you, (freak size) and will be interested to see and test a 64cm.....

Not many companies are building of the rack carbon bikes in this size....most of the guys on this size will be 6'4"+ and over 200 lbs.

I'm also really curious to what the real world difference is between the red, black and white carbon bikes. Light would be nice but I'm interested in how flexie it may be......and how it rides?

sexie rigs for sure......!! has anyone seen a 64cm yet..?
. 



pjkad said:


> All things being equal (i.e. same components and setup) what do you think would be the difference between the White Carbon lay up models vs. the Black Carbon? I'm thinking of a 64cm Madone and they are only making that size in White Carbon.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

brentster said:


> What you're saying sort of states the obvious. The point is you're stuck with whatever body and meal you have at the time that you hit the mountain. Will that 1/4 pound of weight savings do anything?


You might wanna consider quoting whomever your reply was meant for.

You wanna be lighter? Lose weight. Eat less burgers. Eat less but more nutritional food.

That'd give you a lighter body as it is when you ride.

That weight savings is only a VERY VERY small fraction of the total rider/bike weight so I'm sure you can figure from there how much of a difference it actually makes. 

Even the pros who are paid to ride stuff don't have the lightest bikes when compared to each other. Yet they don't go requesting for a special frame or a wheelset or whatever. They ride what they have to choose from. 

Your water bottles already add to the weight. 

I think analyticcycling has the numbers on this.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

i think Trebike.com should have the the answers the different between red, black and white carbon frames. i'm thinking the thickness of carbon they use on which one. could be wrong. sine i'm not buying it ( 08 Madone ) why should i have to read " all " the infos about it. sorry nothing personal.


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## stevecaz (Feb 25, 2005)

The Red OCLV is lighter due to the use of high modulus carbon fiber, the black OCLV uses intermediate modulus, and white OCLV therefore uses standard modulus. Although each frame is a mixture of these materials and thats the reason they can't really call them by their density anymore (like OCLV 110, as in grams per square meter).

Edit: oh here, I found the spot on their website. This has also been all over the bike mags. 
http://www.trekbikes.com/madone/technology/performance/


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## gormleyflyer2002 (Sep 12, 2005)

Thanks.....I have read the info on the site but I was more curious about how each might might ride or feel. 

I guess I'm asking...other than weight, would someone be able to notice a difference "via seat of the pants feel" or when climbing etc...... 

I don't options anyway, the 64cm comes only with white carbon.




stevecaz said:


> The Red OCLV is lighter due to the use of high modulus carbon fiber, the black OCLV uses intermediate modulus, and white OCLV therefore uses standard modulus. Although each frame is a mixture of these materials and thats the reason they can't really call them by their density anymore (like OCLV 110, as in grams per square meter).
> 
> Edit: oh here, I found the spot on their website. This has also been all over the bike mags.
> http://www.trekbikes.com/madone/technology/performance/


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

gormleyflyer2002 said:


> Thanks.....I have read the info on the site but I was more curious about how each might might ride or feel.
> 
> I guess I'm asking...other than weight,* would someone be able to notice a difference "via seat of the pants feel" or when climbing etc*......
> 
> I don't options anyway, the 64cm comes only with white carbon.


Erm, probably not much.

All are good I'm sure. Just like how OCLV 110 was great and OCLV 55 is just supposed to be stiffer and lighter. Less flex too but hardly noticeable maybe. Depends on how you ride and such.

You can get the 64cm in other versions of OCLVs im sure if you ask Trek for a custom but that would cost more of course. 

That said, the OCLV reds would be the stiffest and lightest and perhaps snappier than the whites but you've gotta test them for yourself to know for certain.

Good luck


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## johngfoster (Jan 14, 2005)

gormleyflyer2002 said:


> Thanks.....I have read the info on the site but I was more curious about how each might might ride or feel.
> 
> I guess I'm asking...other than weight, would someone be able to notice a difference "via seat of the pants feel" or when climbing etc......


400gm of dead weight probably won't be that noticeable even to the most experienced weight weenie. However, if the weight savings is in the wheels, then you will probably notice a difference. Weight rotating takes energy to get it that way, so less weight rotating in the wheels means faster acceleration and quicker response on the flats and on the the hills. I think you are more likely to notice this. The bike will have a "quicker" feel, more acceleration and more "responsive" feel.


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