# Further GP 4000s Sidewall Problems



## UpHillCrawler (Jul 14, 2004)

I hadn't used Continental tires for close to a decade due to numerous sidewall problems I was having. After all the positive reviews of the GP4000s I thought surely after all this time Conty had gotten their act together by now. I installed them on Saturday and my first ride was Sunday. Barely 10 miles into my first ride while just cruising down a smooth street (I live in SoCal) I heard the loud POP coming from my rear tire. After a couple attempts at trying to just replace the tube (who thinks that their new tire is going to blow out a sidewall 10 miles into the first ride???) my riding partner noticed that the sidewall was ripped and you could see the inntertube coming through.

I called Conty today and they referred me to their US distributor, a company called Highway 2 'http://www.highwaytwob2b.com/contact.aspx'. When I asked them how to warranty the tire (after all it was used for barely over 10 miles) they told me that THEY don't deal with the customer, they only deal with the dealer that sold you the tire. Since I bought them from PBK (as most people know usually the best price) I sent an email to PBK indicating what my problem was and hoping that they will handle the warranty. 

I know a lot of people swear by Conty tires but this is it for me. I don't know what irritates me more, the poor quality of the tire or the hoops they make you jump through when their product fails.

Oh, FWIW, the tire actually did ride well for the first couple of miles...


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## Zampano (Aug 7, 2005)

Are you saying there was absolutely no contact whatsoever at the point of failure? They should definitely take care of that situation.


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

Man, that sucks. I had issues with my Schwalbe Ultremo ZX tires I purchased recently. Right after installation (my first ride), I had threads peeling off the sidewalls in bunches. I contacted Schwalbe, sent them pictures and three days later I had a new pair of tires in the mail. Excellent customer service.

Hope it works out for you.


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## UpHillCrawler (Jul 14, 2004)

Zampano said:


> Are you saying there was absolutely no contact whatsoever at the point of failure? They should definitely take care of that situation.


No contact at all, I was coasting at about 20 mph during small downhill on a smooth street. A member of my cycling club could also verify this...


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## Diopena1 (Jul 21, 2011)

Weird... Makes me a bit worrisome since I just ordered a pair from PBK also. Maybe they got a bad batch?...
I had Shwalbe Ultremo ZX before, and they lasted about 400 miles before they got gouged by a rock, causing sidewall failure, and a double pinch flat. 
Been riding Continental Force/Attack combo since, and No issues thus far.... its been about 1000 Miles, and I can only count two flats due to random rocks on the road. Hence, why I ordered the 4000s <- I read nothing but great things about them also.... 
But, looking at your pictures, I have to ask, what Psi were you running them at? I normally run 100 front 116 rear, because I weigh 193 lbs. Well within the minimum and max limitations for the casing. 

Keep us posted on how things go, good luck.


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## UpHillCrawler (Jul 14, 2004)

I weight a tad over 200 so I was running just under 120 in the rear tire. I've never had issues like this except for Conty's, been using Vredesteins for years with no issues but sometimes you just would like to try something different.

I'm sure it's just a defective tire but it's still a real hassle and Conty does not make it easy to do warranty claims. It's just way too expensive of a tire to cross your fingers and hope for the best...


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## Diopena1 (Jul 21, 2011)

i get you. 120 psi is about right for a bit over 200. Most than likely faulty seam. For all the accolades, they had better get their act together, and solve the issue.


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## vagabondcyclist (Apr 2, 2011)

Sorry you've had trouble. 

Find a shop that sells Continental and they should deal with the warranty for you. Ask nicely and don't have a chip on your shoulder especially since you didn't purchase the tire from the shop.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

UpHillCrawler said:


> I weight a tad over 200 so I was running just under 120 in the rear tire. I've never had issues like this except for Conty's, been using Vredesteins for years with no issues but sometimes you just would like to try something different.
> 
> I'm sure it's just a defective tire but it's still a real hassle and Conty does not make it easy to do warranty claims. It's just way too expensive of a tire to cross your fingers and hope for the best...


this has nothing to do w/ this thread, really...but, if you're on 23mm tires i'd recommend going to 25's for sure. 28's if they'd fit in your frame. it doesn't really make sense for someone of your size to be riding the same tires as someone that weighs 130lbs.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

Must be a batch of tires. I've got 1400 miles on a set of 4000s tires and I just had my first flat on Saturday and it was caused by a piece of glass.


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## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

As with most global companies, the company that sells/distributes Conti's in the US is probably a different legal company/entity than the company that sells/distributes Conti's in the UK. Accordingly, going to a US dealer for a warranty claim will likely fall on deaf ears. Which, sorry to report, is as it should be. 

As others have reported, I've had thousands and thousands of miles on Conti's with zero problems, other than the occasional nail/screw/thorn.


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## UpHillCrawler (Jul 14, 2004)

Actually I already contacted a couple of my LBS that I do a lot of business with and they told me the same thing. Conty does not have a local rep and I'd have to go thru Conty / Highway 2 for warranty issues and they told me the only way they do warranty items is thru the dealer not the customer. 

My LBS also told me that if this problem happened with Michelin or Schwalbe or most of the other main brands they could give me a new tire without questions and resolve the issue with the local rep.

And for the other poster I am really on the 23/25 border and I probably would have gone with the 25 Conty's had they been available. But I would also say I've been running 23 Vredestein's and Michelin's for the last 10-12 years without a problem...


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Cause?*



UpHillCrawler said:


> I hadn't used Continental tires for close to a decade due to numerous sidewall problems I was having. After all the positive reviews of the GP4000s I thought surely after all this time Conty had gotten their act together by now. I installed them on Saturday and my first ride was Sunday. Barely 10 miles into my first ride while just cruising down a smooth street (I live in SoCal) I heard the loud POP coming from my rear tire. After a couple attempts at trying to just replace the tube (who thinks that their new tire is going to blow out a sidewall 10 miles into the first ride???) my riding partner noticed that the sidewall was ripped and you could see the inntertube coming through.
> 
> I know a lot of people swear by Conty tires but this is it for me. I don't know what irritates me more, the poor quality of the tire or the hoops they make you jump through when their product fails.
> 
> Oh, FWIW, the tire actually did ride well for the first couple of miles...


I can't tell for sure from the picture but it LOOKS like the brake pad was contacting the sidewall of the tire. Usually sidewall cuts are "higher" on the sidewall as they are caused by road debris. Yours looks like it is right at the rim edge and it looks like there is a wear line all around the tire. Only you (or a shop or other experienced rider) can inspect the tire to determine the cause of the sidewall failure. If the tire took a hit from debris or was cut by your brake pads then it certainly is NOT a warranty item.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

UpHillCrawler said:


> Actually I already contacted a couple of my LBS that I do a lot of business with and they told me the same thing. Conty does not have a local rep and I'd have to go thru Conty / Highway 2 for warranty issues and they told me the only way they do warranty items is thru the dealer not the customer.
> 
> My LBS also told me that if this problem happened with Michelin or Schwalbe or most of the other main brands they could give me a new tire without questions and resolve the issue with the local rep.
> 
> And for the other poster I am really on the 23/25 border and I probably would have gone with the 25 Conty's had they been available. But I would also say I've been running 23 Vredestein's and Michelin's for the last 10-12 years *without a problem...*


other than rattling around at 120psi


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## SteveV0983 (Dec 9, 2008)

Funny that this should come up once again. I got a new bike this summer and really had the itch to try something other than the same Vredestein TriComps I've been using for years and I also wanted to try 25s. Everyone seems to love the Contis so much that I was going to give them a try. But forum searches kept coming up with the same recurring problem of blown out sidewalls. Now I know there are tons of people who swear by these tires, but once I saw the same recurring theme over and over, I decided not to even try them.
Stuck with my TriComps and still love them. But I still wanted to try a 700 x 25 and at the time, the TriComps were only 23 (now you can get 25 in black), so I picked up a set of Vittoria Rubino Pro III in 25s and I just started using them 2 weeks ago. I'm using 23mm HED rims and honestly feel as though the 23 TriComps handle and corner better than the 25 Rubinos. 
Anyway, the OP has once again confirmed that I made the correct decision by avoiding the Contis.


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## UpHillCrawler (Jul 14, 2004)

I did go and check the brake pad setup again just to be sure and it wasn't rubbing on the tire. I have the tire off the wheel and when you look at the tire there's the bead and a couple mm of reinforcement before the raw sidewall and that's wear the split occurred. I think the tire was just defective especially since it blew after barely 10 miles on the bike.

Once again, if you're using Conty's and their working for you, great! Our bike club has several people that swear by them, I've just had an too many issues with them and honestly I think they have QA issues...






Kerry Irons said:


> I can't tell for sure from the picture but it LOOKS like the brake pad was contacting the sidewall of the tire. Usually sidewall cuts are "higher" on the sidewall as they are caused by road debris. Yours looks like it is right at the rim edge and it looks like there is a wear line all around the tire. Only you (or a shop or other experienced rider) can inspect the tire to determine the cause of the sidewall failure. If the tire took a hit from debris or was cut by your brake pads then it certainly is NOT a warranty item.


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## vagabondcyclist (Apr 2, 2011)

UpHillCrawler said:


> Actually I already contacted a couple of my LBS that I do a lot of business with and they told me the same thing. Conty does not have a local rep and I'd have to go thru Conty / Highway 2 for warranty issues and they told me the only way they do warranty items is thru the dealer not the customer. ..


Sorry, but this sounds sketchy to me. If the LBS sells Continental, then the LBS has a supplier, a rep, etc. with whom they can work with for warranty returns. I worked in and managed a shop in the 1990s and there was nothing--no tire, tube, frame, shoe, helmet, etc. that I couldn't warranty or attempt to warranty with either my supplier, the manufacturer, etc. Was it easy all the time, no, but if it was in my shop I had the opportunity to attempt to warranty items. 

Maybe the bicycle retailing business has changed since then, but I find it hard to believe that the LBS won't do it. Maybe it's because they know you went overseas for the tires and well....


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## UpHillCrawler (Jul 14, 2004)

I'm sure it's because I didn't buy the tires from the shop, that's the first thing I told them and I have a pretty good relationship with a couple of my LBS.

That doesn't change what they said about the fact they WOULD have just given me a new tire and worked through the rep if they hadn't been Conty's. 

I'm just saying what they told me, your shop may be different...


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## icsloppl (Aug 25, 2009)

I'd have to agree with Kerry Irons. It looks like brake pad interference. The pad may be close but not in contact until you actually get on the bike, at which point you can't see it.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

What cxwrench writes.


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## UpHillCrawler (Jul 14, 2004)

To the people that mentioned the potential brake pad rubbing problem, I did check the alignment again this morning and everything looks OK. It's certainly possible that was happening but my bike is a 2013 Trek Domane that came with 25c tires which are considerably wider than the Conty's and I put over 400 miles on them with no issues. If there as a brake pad rubbing problem wouldn't it be even worse with wider tires?


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

UpHillCrawler said:


> ... If there as a brake pad rubbing problem wouldn't it be even worse with wider tires?


Perhaps, but it could definitely get worse as the brake pads wear.


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## 11.4 (Mar 2, 2008)

I also second Kerry Iron's point about brake block rubbing. There isn't really a seam there to fail. You have to assume a longitudinal tear through a very durable casing. It only happens if it's been compromised. 

Brake blocks are so fat these days that they completely cover the braking surfaces of many rims. And you have to remember that when you clamp down with brakes, you both spread the blocks slightly and also the arms of the calipers flex so the brakes tend to ride up slightly and can hit the tire casing while braking, even if they don't do so on the stand. Your photos show a line of abrasion precisely where the brake block would hit, and the damage is precisely what I'd expect from brake block abrasion. I've done this many times myself. Sadly.


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## UpHillCrawler (Jul 14, 2004)

As a final update, I swapped out the GP4000s's for the original Bontrager R3 25c's and did a quick 30 mile ride with our local club. Didn't adjust the brakes and I had several of the guys from my club check out the setup both when the bike was stationary and trying to eyeball it when I was on it. 
No problems, issues, noises or rubbing with the Bonty tires, still not sure why a wider tire wouldn't have an even bigger problem with potential brake rub, but I suppose stranger things have happened. 
Honestly if I thought the setup caused the problem I would just own it and move on, but I don't think that's the situation. Still haven't heard back from PBK and I'm not holding out much hope that they will warranty the tire anyway.
Like I said before if the Conty's are working for you and you're a fan, that's great! Based on my experience though I'll be looking to other companies in the future...


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## NTA (Apr 4, 2010)

That has happened to me this summer,with the same tire GP4000s, after the first ride maybe 80km:yesnod: but the previous tire last me 6,500km. Who knows what was wrong but in the end I am happy with the GP4000s tires:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

UpHillCrawler said:


> As a final update, I swapped out the GP4000s's for the original Bontrager R3 25c's and did a quick 30 mile ride with our local club. Didn't adjust the brakes and I had several of the guys from my club check out the setup both when the bike was stationary and trying to eyeball it when I was on it.
> No problems, issues, noises or rubbing with the Bonty tires, *still not sure why a wider tire wouldn't have an even bigger problem with potential brake rub, but I suppose stranger things have happened. *
> Honestly if I thought the setup caused the problem I would just own it and move on, but I don't think that's the situation. Still haven't heard back from PBK and I'm not holding out much hope that they will warranty the tire anyway.
> Like I said before if the Conty's are working for you and you're a fan, that's great! Based on my experience though I'll be looking to other companies in the future...


the brake pad rubbing the tire would only be an issue if the pad is not adjusted correctly. a wider tire would not change anything if the pads were properly adjusted. obviously brake pads are supposed to contact rim, not tire sidewalls.


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## Dcmkx2000 (Mar 18, 2010)

I had a sidewall blowout on a pair of hutchinson tires frok nashbar after about 200 miles. Called, sent them back, and they refunded my money pretty quick. Went with rubino pro slicks and have been very happy. I too was interested in gp 4000s....not now.


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## SealBeach (Dec 7, 2012)

no problems here


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## Trevrev97 (Jun 29, 2011)

I think Conti QC has gone down the shitter in the last year or two, I manage a shop and we stocked loads of conti tires but that's going to change due to having to replace tires prematurely. mostly the high end road and MTB tires, road tires mostly sidewall problems and MTB tires mostly horribly crooked treads. Bummer because I like the tires but I like straight tread too.


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## tuck (Oct 4, 2011)

sorry to hear about the problem ya hadzors. 

but, like some others here, i've got a buttload of miles on conti 4000s' and zero problems. in fact, i think they're the best tires i've ridden.

and for funsies...i'm 180ish and run them at 120psi on rxls.


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## refund!? (Oct 16, 2006)

vagabondcyclist said:


> I worked in and managed a shop in the 1990s...Maybe the bicycle retailing business has changed since then, but I find it hard to believe that the LBS won't do it. Maybe it's because they know you went overseas for the tires and well....


Duhh..."Maybe the bicycle retailing business has changed since then"!? I have people coming into my shop on a regular basis asking me to warranty something they purchased on the internet. I just point to a sign on the wall that says: 

"You bought it on the internet, now there's a problem, and you want me to help? Congratulations on the 'great deal'. Now go waste someone else's time." 

Then I go back to helping someone who supports my shop, who by the way, get excellent, no questions asked, and immediate warranty service.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Your experience echos mine, and I used the GP4000's, Gatorskin, and the 4 Seasons, and all but one tire failed prematurely due to sidewall damage. I never had that sort of luck with any tire before or since, so I know it's the fact that Continental road tires with their paper thin sidewalls are just junk and won't last long on rough city streets. The one that did last till tread wear out was one Gatorskin, it's partner failed though.

I'm not bagging on Continental because I hate them or some such thing, I actually like their MTB tires! I have a set on one of mine MTB tires and they have been very good tires. But their road tires suck. And their not fast, the thin sidewalls make them feel fast because their smoother riding then most tires. In fact speed wise Cont's are just average, see this: http://www.biketechreview.com/tires_old/images/AFM_tire_testing_rev9.pdf The only tire Conti has that is above average rolling resistance is the Supersonic which is far too fragile to be used on the street, thin rubber, no flat protection belt, and super thin sidewalls all add up to being flat and tire destruction nightmare.


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## scottma (May 18, 2012)

I have a pair of 25c 4000s tires with over 6000 mi on them. I've had one flat in that time. A couple guys in our club ride them and I havent heard of any problems from them. As usual, YMMV.


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## alias33 (Sep 15, 2008)

I had the same problem but it destroyed my brand new sram s60 rear wheel

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/conti-4000-incident-report-218210.html


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## terrapin4 (Aug 2, 2009)

alias33 said:


> I had the same problem but it destroyed my brand new sram s60 rear wheel
> 
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/conti-4000-incident-report-218210.html


feels like an echo...my shimano rs80 rear wheel was destroyed after my gp4000 sidewall exploded on a descent at 40 mph, wrapping the tube around my skewer and locking up the wheel. this was my fourth flat (2nd by sidewall failure) on conti's in about six months. the tear was clean across the 'seam' (or whatever you want to call it) where the tread meets the logo'd area. no chance that it was brake rub.

and i used to think they were the best tires in production as well. enough is enough though, on to michelin pro 4's.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

terrapin4 said:


> the tear was clean across the 'seam' (or whatever you want to call it) where the tread meets the logo'd area. no chance that it was brake rub.


While there may not be a "seam" in the strict definition of the word, this illustrates the experience of others who have seen a crack develop in that area around the entire circumference of the GP4000 tire. Count me among those who are skeptical about the brake pad rub theory—too many failures like the OP experienced described on the net. Enlarge photo to see the crack clearly.


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## jlwdm (Nov 7, 2009)

I have ridden the 4000s tires exclusively for five years and they have been awesome. Hardly ever have a flat. 

Jeff


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## Trevrev97 (Jun 29, 2011)

This is exactly what I am talking about, I have been replacing them with Schwalbe. I am not about to tune up my clients bike and let them roll out on tires that look like that!



wim said:


> While there may not be a "seam" in the strict definition of the word, this illustrates the experience of others who have seen a crack develop in that area around the entire circumference of the GP4000 tire. Count me among those who are skeptical about the brake pad rub theory—too many failures like the OP experienced described on the net. Enlarge photo to see the crack clearly.


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## aratchet (Dec 18, 2009)

I too had many years riding Conti's with no issues other than the occasional flat. two years ago I rounded a corner and was over the bars skidding on my face before I knew what happened. When I got up and counted my teeth and eyes and wiped away the blood I looked for the cause of my flight. I thought I had punctured and looked at the front wheel. The tire was still inflated. I looked more closely at it and the LH sidewall had separated from the bead. As in the cord inside the bead was exposed. This let about a 4-5 inches opening in the sidewall which allowed the tube to squeeze out and grab the caliper and lock up the front brake. It is amazing to me that the tube stayed inflated. In fact I rode slowly home with the tube popped out of the sidewall and the caliper released. I am sure it is a rare occurrence along with many other of the posters having their various failures. But there are enough to warrant caution and careful inspection if your going to continue riding them. Mine did have about 1000 miles on it. However, I don't feel a tire should fail this way and they weren't 5 years old and dry rotted. As mentioned by others, there had been some injuries. My face was a perfect halloween mask that year, but it healed up quickly. I think I was just lucky. What it did do was prompt me to go to Campy two-way fit wheels and tubeless Hutchinson Fusion 3s. I have not had a flat in over two years. The tires have great grip, wet or dry, fantastic ride and as relates to this thread, no tube to pop, mangle or slit. All my other bikes now are running tubeless. Because of the importance of the bead and it's seating on the rim, the manufacture of these tires seem to have closer tolerances and or quality control. Compare what Schwalbe are saying about tubeless now that they are bringing a hot rod tubeless tire out. I am done with tubes on bikes. Don't have them on any of my cars anymore either!


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## syraleo (Jun 1, 2010)

Sucks that you had that problem.

I'm 220lbs and i ride the Conti GP4000S 700x23c with no issues for close to 630miles. The tyre did get cut up real bad during the last 100miles but that's cause i always cycle into rocks and pot holes and stuff... roads are terrible in singapore.

But overall it's been a fantastic tyre, looking to get another pair.

The Schwalbe Ultremo ZX on the other hand... sidewall cracks 100miles in, blow out 150miles later. And i dont see what the hype is about these tyres, they dont roll "insanely fast" as claimed by some folks... overall disappointment.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

syraleo said:


> Sucks that you had that problem.
> 
> I'm 220lbs and i ride the Conti GP4000S 700x23c with no issues for close to 630miles. The tyre did get cut up real bad during the last 100miles but that's cause i always cycle into rocks and pot holes and stuff... roads are terrible in singapore.
> 
> ...


try the 25mm tires next time, i'll bet you like them better. if you're on crap roads at your weight, it only makes sense. you can probably drop the pressure a bit, depending on what you're running now.


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## JackDaniels (Oct 4, 2011)

I consider the gp4000 a good crit tire, very sticky, not super durable compared to gatorskins or all seasons, which is what I train on. But I've generally found Continental to be more reliable than the other brands I've used in the past.


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## seleniak (Jun 22, 2008)

Have had mixed success with 4000S in Norcal these last few weeks. First set I had (from RBK) blew the sidewall on the rear (good 3-4" tear/separation with the tube sticking out still inflated) just above the bead a few miles into their very first ride after a reasonably long descent. Sounded like a gun shot. Replaced it with a 3rd one from the same order and everything's been good - about 600 miles on them since. 

Been riding Vittoria Open Corsa and Michelin Pros for many years with one sidewall cut I can remember, so definitely mixed thoughts on them. Really like the black chilli compound, but going back to Open Corsas as soon as the rain stops.


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