# Optimal pedal/cleat system



## GaryJaz (Sep 21, 2005)

It's time to replace my campy Record pedals for something else. I think going to a larger footprint might be better, since riding with the campys I sometimes felt like all my pressure was focused on the ball of my foot (roughly).

I am getting a full dura ace cannondale and I like the looks of the dura ace pedals. I know they are heavier than the speedplays, but the cleats are light on the dura ace and heavy with the speedplays. But I don't have numbers on the total weight of each system. Where can I find the weights of pedal/cleat systems? Can anyone help?


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## cwg_at_opc (Oct 20, 2005)

*try the weight weenies site...*

weight weenies - pedals

i've the ultegra pedals which are a bit heavier than the ritchey road logics
they replace, but the cleat/pedal interface is miles better. have only
about 250mi so far, and the cleats don't seem to be wearing out at any
appreciable rate. both spd-sl and speedplay have their proponents, i'm
not fond of the cleat design on the speedplays, that being said, you should
try to borrow a pair and see how you like them before shelling out the cash.


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## GaryJaz (Sep 21, 2005)

I can't tell if the 7800 (DAs) weight includes cleats or not over at WeightWeenies. Can you?




cwg_at_opc said:


> weight weenies - pedals
> 
> i've the ultegra pedals which are a bit heavier than the ritchey road logics
> they replace, but the cleat/pedal interface is miles better. have only
> ...


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## fleck (Mar 25, 2005)

I've got a pair of the M2 Racer Orb ti pedals. They are sweet. new 3 bolt cleat design, lateral float as well as rotational. Combine that with my solid shimano 151 carbon sole shoes and i feel i've got a great combination. Those pedals are worth what they don't weigh in gold!


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## cwg_at_opc (Oct 20, 2005)

from the Shimano web-site:
_Features 
Wide pedal platform for improved foot-pedal stability
Lightweight design: Total system weight 351g (Pedals 281g, cleats 70g)
Wide bearing placement for uniform load distribution
Silky smooth 3-bearing axle system: 2 ball, 1 wide roller bearing
Large binding target for quick engagement_

soooo, DA spd-sl 7800 will be 351g.

from the Speedplay web-site:
_Phenomenal light weight:
Chrome-Moly pedals per pair - 210g
Stainless pedals per pair - 206g
Titanium pedals per pair -164g
Zero cleats per pair - 105g_

which means the Speedplay Ti will weigh ~270g+ including cleats,
since the WWs show that the cleats are closer to 115g.




GaryJaz said:


> I can't tell if the 7800 (DAs) weight includes cleats or not over at WeightWeenies. Can you?


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## GaryJaz (Sep 21, 2005)

Well done. Now, is the next question is: is the wider platform of the DA worth a hit of 80 grams of rotating weight? That's about 1/6th of a pound. I dread having to get fitted properly to test a lot of pedals....





cwg_at_opc said:


> from the Shimano web-site:
> _Features
> Wide pedal platform for improved foot-pedal stability
> Lightweight design: Total system weight 351g (Pedals 281g, cleats 70g)
> ...


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## cwg_at_opc (Oct 20, 2005)

*usage?*

you racin' or just ridin'? if you're not racing, walking on the speedplay cleats
can be a bit tricky. the new spd-sl cleats are less expensive and easier to
walk on with their widely spaced rubber feet. if you're racing, you really
need to try both types out to see what works biomechanically better for
your physiology. got any friends that can lend you a set of zeros or DAs?





GaryJaz said:


> Well done. Now, is the next question is: is the wider platform of the DA worth a hit of 80 grams of rotating weight? That's about 1/6th of a pound. I dread having to get fitted properly to test a lot of pedals....


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## GaryJaz (Sep 21, 2005)

Racing. I don't think I'm going to be able to try these out without hassles. I wonder how the speedplays compare to the campy record titaniums I used last year. Sometimes I felt some pain in my foot above the spindle.

I talked to a Keo rep yesterday and he said the top of the line Keos/cleats are over 50 grams lighter than the speedplays. Was he right? 



cwg_at_opc said:


> you racin' or just ridin'? if you're not racing, walking on the speedplay cleats
> can be a bit tricky. the new spd-sl cleats are less expensive and easier to
> walk on with their widely spaced rubber feet. if you're racing, you really
> need to try both types out to see what works biomechanically better for
> your physiology. got any friends that can lend you a set of zeros or DAs?


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## cwg_at_opc (Oct 20, 2005)

*keo Ti*

WWs sez they're ~192gms + 70gms for cleats, ~260. if you're using
a quality rigid shoe you might want to look at the m2(~150gms w/cleats)
aerolites(similar design, 116gms w/cleats), or even bebops(~150gms w/cleats)

my money is on ease of use, platform stability, and overall durability.
for racing, i'd say stuff that doesn't break, is maintenance free, and
doesn't hurt my feet/knees/ankles. YMMV of course.

i've seen people with eggbeaters(triple-Ti,short Ti spindles, ~150gms) on
road bikes too.

did the Look rep mention anything about demo-ing pedals? can you get
a club/racing discount?(i.e. if you don't like 'em -> ebay!)


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## GaryJaz (Sep 21, 2005)

You know, I didn't even think to ask the rep about trying them out. 

I've had some people recommend the Time RXS pedals now. Anyone have an opinion on their weight/performance value? How much do the cleats weigh for the Times?







cwg_at_opc said:


> WWs sez they're ~192gms + 70gms for cleats, ~260. if you're using
> a quality rigid shoe you might want to look at the m2(~150gms w/cleats)
> aerolites(similar design, 116gms w/cleats), or even bebops(~150gms w/cleats)
> 
> ...


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## cwg_at_opc (Oct 20, 2005)

i used to ride times many, many moons ago... so what do the WWs have to say
about the new-ish RXS?

Time	RXS	2005
claimed: 265 g
meas: 260 g
%diff: −1,89%
notes: pair, w/out cleats (+76 g/pair) and w/out cleat fixing bolts (+16 g/6 bolts)	
Time	RXS Carbon	2005
claimed: 259 g
meas: 257.5 g
%diff: −0,58%
notes: pair, w/out cleats (+96 g per pair incl. fixing bolts), averaged (255/260)	
Time	RXS Titan Carbon	2005
claimed: 195 g
meas: 200.45 g
%diff: +2,79%
notes: pair, averaged (198/200/201.8/202)

it's not clear exactly how much the cleats weigh from the WWs, but it's not
looking all that light. when i did use times, they were quite good, albeit heavy.
no accidental releases, and pretty easy to get out of when necessary(stop lights, etc.)
since i haven't used any time pedals since the '90s i'm not the person to ask tho'...

if you're really concerned about weight, you need to look at the aerolites. they've
been around for a really long time, and are stupid light(116gms all in) - you will need
carbon soled shoes with SPD mounts however. a couple of friends who were
triathlon geeks swore by them. next lightest are the m2 orbs (99gms+72gms
cleats&screws=171gm), don't know anyone who uses them, but someone else
in this thread mentioned them.

you _really should_ check out the WW site; each pedal has links to the manufacturer
web site so you can compare the market-speak with what's been measured by
actual customers.


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## GaryJaz (Sep 21, 2005)

Thanks for listing these RXS variants. I do check WW; I just don't trust them straight up. There's too much guesswork involved with a lot of things (i.e. includes cleats or no, bolts or no, and this is true for a lot of parts). I've been thinking of starting my own WW site and doing it right. IF you will all pitch in and get me a super accurate scale, I'll start weighing products at all the shops in Boston. 

What do y'all think about this claim from Speedplay re. surface contact area? 

http://www.speedplay.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.platform






cwg_at_opc said:


> i used to ride times many, many moons ago... so what do the WWs have to say
> about the new-ish RXS?
> 
> Time	RXS	2005
> ...


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## cwg_at_opc (Oct 20, 2005)

*marketing-speak strikes again*

i think the whole surface area argument is rendered moot by
the fact that those of us who are concerned with overall efficiency
are using shoes with substantially stiffer soles than in years past.

energy transfer and pressure distribution are what really make
a difference to me; i've noticed more of a difference by upgrading
my shoes from a fairly stiff thermoplastic soled shimano to an
ultra-stiff full carbon fiber nike. the stiff sole doesn't deform, so
no energy is lost deforming the sole and because there's no
deformation the pressure is distributed widely across the sole of
the foot.

that being said, pedal preference then becomes a decision based
on other factors, like ease of use, biomechanical compatibility,
maintenance, weight, aesthetics and price.

i like your idea of a more precise version of WW, maybe we can get
some LBSs to assist as well, since they'll have deffirent models
on hand to weigh.


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