# '06 or '07?



## drigboy (Jan 12, 2007)

Ok, please chime in on this one:

Which would you kind folks advise me to purchase, a 2006 Orca in not my first choice of color but with the SRAM Force group for $3000 or the new 2007 Orca in my fave color, same group, for around $5000?

Does anybody think there's that much of a difference (besides looks) between the '06 and '07? I have ridden the '06 and loved it, but I'm just such a Libra, I'm considering the '07. I'm leaning toward the '06 because I'm a pretty new rider, and the guys in my bike club will just laugh at me if I spend $5k on a new bike. No, seriously, I'm leaning toward the '06 because it's a great frame with a great group at a great price. What do the rest of you think?


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## rmklaw1 (Feb 5, 2007)

I just went through the same decision process and decided for the 06 Orca. Part of my decision was that I did not want the added stiffness of the 07 for long rides.


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## drigboy (Jan 12, 2007)

*Stiffness...*

Really, I did not know that was one of the differences. I tend to ride longer distances, too, so that is a definite consideration. What other factors came into play for you?


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## janetaylor7 (Jan 18, 2007)

I have had a similar question in my mind because the 2007 diva is made with the 2006 slightly less stiff carbon fiber. I assume this is because the added stiffness of the 2007 is not required for a lighter female rider. Almost every review of the '06 orca raves about it. The only complaints I've ever read are sponginess when standing up and a lack of stability when descending very fast (50mph+). Unfortunately reviewers rarely give up their weight but since these complaints are so rare I'm assuming these are heavier riders. That just leaves you with the difference in tube shape. The head tube is beefier which implies that it is stiffer but again this is probably something that is only appreciated by someone who is mashing up a hill standing up. Reviewers seem to reflect that the '07 is as comfortable as the '06 but not more so. 

The reviews on roadbikereview are mainly of the '06. You might check them out.


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## drigboy (Jan 12, 2007)

*'06 reviews...*

Yeah, I think I've read every review of both the '06 and '07 Orca on the 'Net. Well, every one I could find, at any rate. I'm a light rider (140 Lbs), and I'm pretty certain I've never decended a hill any faster than 40 Mph. But then I live in Minnesota, our hills only get so big around here.


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## janetaylor7 (Jan 18, 2007)

Then again, in my decision to wait for the blue diva, I decided that I should have the color of my choice because I spend more time on my bike than on my couch and I would never buy a pink couch (the first color of diva released). I think if you are going to spend real money on a bike everything should be perfect about it. $3,000 is a great price but it's still a lot of money. You haven't mentioned whether you prefer the design of the '07. That's a consideration too. 

As far as who laughs at you, there are plenty of people who buy high end bikes and never ride them. If you ride a lot you deserve to be as comfortable as possible - the wear and tear adds up. And if the perfect bike will inspire you to ride more it's worth it. 

I'm a commuter so when people give me grief I just think "when was the last time someone said 'don't buy that BMW/Mercedes, etc. because you are only going to drive it to work?'." - never. If I just tell people the orca/diva is the most comfortable and best handling bike on the market and I deserve that because I ride over tough hills day in and day out while they are sitting in traffic sipping their coffee they usually shut up. Why should I ride an aluminium beater because I'm not lance armstrong? When was the last time someone bought a crappy car based solely on the fact that they aren't going to be driving it in the Indiana 500? Besides, it's MY MONEY!!

Okay, you've obviously hit a nerve here. I think I better go . . .


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## drigboy (Jan 12, 2007)

*Wow!*

janetaylor, you have a FANTASTIC point. I do ride a lot, why should I not have the best I can afford just because I don't race, or, even because I haven't been riding that long? Heck yeah! You've really put into perspective.

I do, of course , prefer the look of the '07 Orca, but I haven't ridden one. In general, I would agree with you that the look of the bike should be exactly what one wants, but my LBS only has this model in blue, and they've been very accommodating in letting me ride whatever I've wanted, so I would hate to buy from someone else. I really like this shop, and this place is an independent shop, great support, very professional, etc., so I'm commited to buying from them. I can deal with the whole color issue. Now, having said that, I need to point out that this '06 Orca has the full SRAM Force group, which , I gather, is unusual. Perhaps I should say "not stock". I first rode the Onyx with the SRAM Rival group, nice ride, but then I took out the Orca and it made me shout out, as I was riding on the streets of St. Paul, "WOW!", so you can see there was a big difference. The Onyx with Force instead of Rival is nearing $2900, and the '06 Orca was SUCH a better ride, it seems like a no-brainer, '06 bike with '07 group for $3K. But, thanks to you, I will defend my purchase, regardless of which it is.


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## janetaylor7 (Jan 18, 2007)

If you want to buy the '06, I'm totally behind you. It's a great bike and I like blue personally. But on the other hand, I can certainly see why they would want to unload it. Everyone has '06 orcas on sale right now because the '07 is the "it" bike this year, whether or not it deserves to be.

You are correct that the '06 orca did not come with force but that doesn't mean it's a major upgrade. They most likely took the components off another bike because the buyer didn't want them. That's not to say that force is bad, it's quite good. But the main difference between top of the line components and the next level down is a relatively small amount of weight and I certainly can't justify the difference unless I'm racing. If you read reviews of components, e.g., Record vs. Chorus, Dura Ace vs. Ultegra or Force vs. Rival, they all basically work just as well, it's just a weight difference. The most important parts of a bike IMHO are (1) Frame then (2) wheels. What kind of wheels are on the '06? I chose an '07 frame with Ultegra components but I upgraded the wheels. Orbea tends to put not so great wheels on great frames. If you are looking at wheels that are much lower than the components, I'd go with better wheels. Wheels are much more important for ride quality than components. Again, just my opinion.


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## drigboy (Jan 12, 2007)

*Wheels...*

I believe this bike has Dura-Ace wheels, but I don't know which model. I should know that, I suppose. The shop owner said they were a significant upgrade. As far as Force vs. Rival, I'm just shallow like that, I like the look of the Force SO much better, but, yes, functionally they are the same.


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## rmklaw1 (Feb 5, 2007)

Again, my only concern would be the added stiffness for long rides. Look at the front fork on the 06 and compare to 07.

I could have gone with either frame. I am happy for my decision to go 06 (new frame). However, this was very personal and based on what I was looking for in a bike for centurys. By the way I built mine with the new Campy Record compact group and Rolf wheels and came to under 16 punds complete with pedals and accessories.


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## janetaylor7 (Jan 18, 2007)

Which rolfs did you go with rm?


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## janetaylor7 (Jan 18, 2007)

$3,000 is a steal with Dura Ace wheels. Go for it.


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## janetaylor7 (Jan 18, 2007)

I assume that on an orbea board you've all heard this but it's a nice interview with the Orbea designer at interbike. I'm thinking of it because she talked about how keeping the "eh-smoothness" (spanish accent) of the '06 was a priority. The previous podcast has a nice review of the '07 Orbea.

http://www.thefredcast.com/?p=95


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## rmklaw1 (Feb 5, 2007)

Rolf Prima Vigor. Not the Sls.


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## janetaylor7 (Jan 18, 2007)

So you went with the Vigor RS? I didn't go with those because they are listed as being specifically for heavier riders or very rough roads. I don't weigh much and although the roads I ride over are rural roads, there are tons of hills and I didn't want a heavier wheel for that reason. I wish they offered other alternatives like echelons or elan aeros. I love aero wheels but I think with all the climbing I'd have to get a higher end wheel for them to be light enough. I went with the apex which aren't aero at all. I definitely wanted black wheels. I don't like any of the Mavics and the Zipps aren't practical for the above reason. I may switch to higher end Rolfs or Cane Creeks later. .


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## rmklaw1 (Feb 5, 2007)

I was going to go for the SLs until I spoke with the support people at ROLF. I weight 160-162 clothed. They suggested to go with the Vigor not the SLs.


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## janetaylor7 (Jan 18, 2007)

*Or ride naked?*

I'm surprised that low a weight made them suggest the RS. 

Does Orbea offer SLs? I thought the only choices were the Apex or Vigor RS. I saw they offer the Tempo on their time trial bike but they are heavier aeros. Is your orbea dealer also a rolf dealer? My orbea dealer does not carry rolfs - I actually had to convince them to let me try them. If I was going to upgrade they wanted me to go with Shimanos but I really wanted black wheels. I think if I could get any wheels it would be the Echelons - aero but not too aero, lightweight but not too pricey. But I don't think I have that option.


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## rmklaw1 (Feb 5, 2007)

The RS are the real heavy ones. I ordered mine directly from an Internet dealer, drop shipped directly from ROLF. By the way, the weight difference between Vigor and Vigor SL is only about 40 grams. Small price to pay for the extra insurance and longer trueing life.


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## jasperj (Dec 11, 2006)

*Love my Orca, hated my Cane Creeks*

I am the not-so-pround owner of a pair of Cane Creek Volos SS wheels. I bought them on the strength of reviews on RBR and a recommendation from the LBS where the mechanic was a courier and had taken a pair to the messenger world cup. I found the rims to be soft and mushy--I somehow tacoed the front wheel on a very small pothole with about 100 miles on them, replaced it and the same thing happened again 500 miles later--needless to say, I did not replace the rim this time. (The back wheel's been great, though, very true with 3500 miles on it). I weigh 175--not light, but not particularly heavy either. Another very strange thing about Cane Creek is that as a customer, you can't obtain replacement spokes: they only want authorized dealers repairing the wheels, so neither they nor bike shops will sell you spare spokes. Not a good situation when you pop a spoke while on a tour in rural eastern Oregon, as I once did.

I built my 07 Orca with Ksyrium SLs, again on the strength of reviews and word-of-mouth. I thought about the Rolfs, but I was scared off of paired-spoke designs having once had a set of wheels (Gipiemme Grecal Parade, stock on a 2002 Cannondale R800) which, once out of true, were impossible to true again. Also, for 8% of the retail on Mavic wheels ($70 for SLs) you can get a pretty much no-questions-asked 2-year warranty/repair/replacement plan from Mavic, which based on my experience with Cane Creek, seemed like a great idea.


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## janetaylor7 (Jan 18, 2007)

Yikes - good to know on Cane Creek. I don't have a problem with the quality of Mavics - I just don't want silver wheels on a carbon bike and I hate the writing on all their wheels. 

My understanding is that you can't get regular Vigors on an orbea build - only the RS - which I think is really weird.


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## janetaylor7 (Jan 18, 2007)

I wrote orbea when I was trying to convince my LBS to let me try Rolfs. This was what the response was:

Hello Jane,
>
>Congratulations on the Diva!—you are going to love that bike—I’ve got a 
>new Orca (same design) and I like that bike more every time I ride it. 
>As for the wheel decisions, I can also give you a good recommendation 
>for the Rolf Prima Apex wheels as well. I ride and race a lot and I used 
>Apex wheels as my daily driver and for some of the racing I did this 
>past season. I even did one race that consisted of gravel roads with pot 
>holes…Those wheels held up great all year—I have never even had to true 
>them. I have never felt that they were flexy and they do have a great 
>ride quality for someone of your light weight. Also, the Apex wheels 
>only weigh 1600 grams (vs. 1750 for Shimano R-600s—which they are 
>comparable to). The key to the low spoke count is that the spokes are 
>paired to balance the tension—rather than pulling alternately—this 
>allows the use of a lighter rim, while still achieving the same 
>strength. It’s a good design, and they use quality materials, and they 
>have excellent customer service. Of all the wheel brands we carry, I 
>believe their quality and dependability to be the best. Hope this helps 
>your decision.
>
>Best regards, Matt Long


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## DRLski (Apr 26, 2003)

I'd buy the 2007 Orca, wait a year, and then buy the 2007 Orca  But that's just me


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## wininwinter (Feb 9, 2007)

*o6 vs 07*

2k!?! I have an '06 Orbea that is truly a beast. The '07 is a beauty, I am sure it is every bit the performer, however if the difference warrants 2k... Go for it! The stiffness, comfort and asthetics of the '06 makes me very happy! I paid $4500 six months ago. Having said that, consider next year when my '06 starts to show some fashion weariness! Seriously, ride both and weigh based on saddle time, if possible. 

Good luck and remember either way the Race is won in winter!!!!




drigboy said:


> Ok, please chime in on this one:
> 
> Which would you kind folks advise me to purchase, a 2006 Orca in not my first choice of color but with the SRAM Force group for $3000 or the new 2007 Orca in my fave color, same group, for around $5000?
> 
> Does anybody think there's that much of a difference (besides looks) between the '06 and '07? I have ridden the '06 and loved it, but I'm just such a Libra, I'm considering the '07. I'm leaning toward the '06 because I'm a pretty new rider, and the guys in my bike club will just laugh at me if I spend $5k on a new bike. No, seriously, I'm leaning toward the '06 because it's a great frame with a great group at a great price. What do the rest of you think?


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## orcanova (Aug 27, 2006)

Either way, you are not going to be dissapointed.

The deal on the '06 is pretty incredible, however. The '06 with full d/a gruppo and wheels were going for $4,600.00 with a $4,900.00 MSRP.

I think all of the '06 colors are great...all hand painted/airbrushed, and Orcas have always been known for their aesthetics, be it the Euskatel colors, Jelly Belly, blue, silver/black, even the '06 green is hot. Same holds true for the '07's imo.

There is no sponginess standing out the saddle, regardless what you've heard.

If you go for the '06, at your weight I would ebay the d/a wheels and get yourself Rolf Prima Elan Aero's at 1300 grams for the wheelset. I'm 170 and I ride them and they are light and awesome and you would take that bike to another level.

At that price point you could always ride the '06 for a year or two, and upgrade to the new Orca frame and not lose much money. That allows the hype to settle, and there will be better reports on how great or not the new Orca really is. I am not keen on buying the first year model of a redesign of a car or bike.

I have a blue '06 with the Rolf Prima Elan Aeros and am in heaven. I am excited about the '07 Orcas but I don't feel jealous or have any buyer's remorse whatsoever. I know I can have one in a couple years if I really want one, and at that point I can get a good sale price on one as well.

(edit: two other thoughts:

1. glad to hear your commitment to a good LBS for the right reasons.

2. Tell the LBS you want the Elan Aeros and see what kind of price you nget through them before you go through the hassle of craiging or ebaying the d/a wheels and buying a new wheelset. After all, sounds like you would probably buy the new wheelset from them anyway. If you don't go for the Rolf's, then the Campy Eurus are heavier (still a pretty light wheelset), but very aero, and extremely bulletproof, and a fast, lively wheelset. From what I've read, pre 2007 Dura Ace wheels are nodescript and uninspiring all around. Not what you want on your dream bike)


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## nichatz (Jul 18, 2006)

Could you please give me an explanation: in what way the Orca is a better drive from the Onix? I have a 2007 Onix and I strongly believe that you don't drive a bike like this, you WEAR it, so comfortable and precise it is!


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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

drigboy said:


> Ok, please chime in on this one:
> 
> Which would you kind folks advise me to purchase, a 2006 Orca in not my first choice of color but with the SRAM Force group for $3000 or the new 2007 Orca in my fave color, same group, for around $5000?
> 
> Does anybody think there's that much of a difference (besides looks) between the '06 and '07? I have ridden the '06 and loved it, but I'm just such a Libra, I'm considering the '07. I'm leaning toward the '06 because I'm a pretty new rider, and the guys in my bike club will just laugh at me if I spend $5k on a new bike. No, seriously, I'm leaning toward the '06 because it's a great frame with a great group at a great price. What do the rest of you think?



If you're inviting opinions, I would take the 2006 orca. Personally, I think it looks better, and it is a proven design. The 2007 is a new design, unproven over any extended period of time. The fact that all the orbea sponsored pro teams will ride the Opal frameset this year sends a red flag to me. The 2007 orca, in my mind, is unproven. Opal and 2006 orca: you know they are both excellent framesets.


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## critchie (Apr 27, 2004)

In my personal opinion the new orca is far superior. It is stiffer (and this cannot be overrated), it looks better, and you give up *very* little in ride quality. Is it worth $2000 more, that's a very personal call.

You should be able to do better than the $5000 figure for Force, unless you have chosen an expensive wheel option.

I am an Orbea dealer, so I'll give and idea of our prices: with Easton Orion II wheels, a carbon bar and a much nicer stem, the price would be around $5000. The stock Orbea Force package comes with Ksyrium Elite wheels and cheapish bars & stem. The Orions, in our opinion, are nicer and without doubt ride better than somenthing of the SL/ES variety, not to mention how much better they are than the Elites.

Cheers


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## janetaylor7 (Jan 18, 2007)

So in that case do you just order the frame from orbea or do you order the full bike and throw the wheels/bars etc. on the shelf for sale to someone else and just charge the customer the difference?


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## plag (Apr 30, 2007)

I had that same dilema, I had a killer deal on an 06 in Orange my favorite color with full DA. I got the same offer you did for $3k. I love the 07 but was just out of my price range. I did the same as Orcanova and sold my DA wheels and bought the Elans and this thing flys.


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