# Going Chorus 11 from Red



## tinman143 (Aug 14, 2009)

Hey folks,

Just ordered my Chorus 11 set from Ribble and doing as much research as possible. I've always done my own installs and maintenance (Shimano to Sram) and not planning to do otherwise with Campy. Aside from getting a chain tool, are there any tips you all care to share? Cheers


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

You're saved! Congratulations!

Be very attentative to cable routing at the bar. Watch those radiuses. Use pliers or equivalent to push down and help the gear cables to enter the white guides on the hoods.


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## tinman143 (Aug 14, 2009)

I'll keep that in mind during installation.

I've read that the FD has 4 positions vs. Sram's 3 (small ring, large ring, trim)?


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## vaetuning (Oct 1, 2009)

*Campy 2011*

Hi tinman143

My advice to you is as follows:

Make sure you have bought the new generation of 11 speed, i.e. year 2011 stuff and onwards.

The shifting, both front and rear, is way better, and easyer to adjust.

But anyways - welcome to the wonderfull world of campagnolo!!:thumbsup:

You won't regret it!!

Yours respectfully

Mads


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## tinman143 (Aug 14, 2009)

All 2011 stuff


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## vaetuning (Oct 1, 2009)

*Adjustment of FD*



tinman143 said:


> I'll keep that in mind during installation.
> 
> I've read that the FD has 4 positions vs. Sram's 3 (small ring, large ring, trim)?


When adjusted correctly, the FD has the trims on the inner ring, and only one position on the outer ring, as it will not require any trims on the outer ring - it will run on the entire 11 cogs without chainrub!!:thumbsup:

Some do adjust the FD in such a way, that they end up with trims on both inner and outer ring - Of course this works too, but it is not nessesary.

It is all in the tension of the FD cable - play around with it, and set to your liking.

Yours Respectfully

Mads


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

tinman143 said:


> I've read that the FD has 4 positions vs. Sram's 3 (small ring, large ring, trim)?


I've set up mine with three clicks. No rub. Four should not be necessary.


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## tinman143 (Aug 14, 2009)

vaetuning said:


> When adjusted correctly, the FD has the trims on the inner ring, and only one position on the outer ring, as it will not require any trims on the outer ring - it will run on the entire 11 cogs without chainrub!!:thumbsup:
> 
> Some do adjust the FD in such a way, that they end up with trims on both inner and outer ring - Of course this works too, but it is not nessesary.
> 
> ...





kbwh said:


> I've set up mine with three clicks. No rub. Four should not be necessary.


:thumbsup:


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## vaetuning (Oct 1, 2009)

*Installing FD cable*

Ooh by the way...

When installing the FD cable into the left handle, make sure to take your time.

On some of the 11speed handles, it is a little difficult to get it all the way through, but take your time, and you'll surely be fine!!

Yours Respectfully

Mads


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

vaetuning said:


> Hi tinman143
> 
> My advice to you is as follows:
> 
> ...


What are the mechanical differences that make the '11s better than the '10s and earlier? Ive read that the newer ones have a more distinct or louder click, kind of like the 10 spd feel. But I thought that occurred with '09s or '10s. Anything else? Thanks.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

My 2009 SR has less tactile shifter feedback than the 2010 Chorus a member in my club has on his bike. His Chorus feels and sounds very similar to my old 2002 10 speed (carbon) Record.


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## mtnroadie (Jul 6, 2010)

Congrats! I have a feeling you will be thinking "why did I go Sram to begin with?"

I see more and more people unhappy with their Sram groups, most switching to Campy. I have been Sram curios for a while but pass them up every time I start a new build, Sram really needs to step up their game with their road groups.

Set is pretty straight forward, in addition to the other tips mentioned. You might find that you will have misshifts in the middle of your cassette. This seems to be a common issue with 11 speed stuff. I have come across it on both my Athena 11 (2010) and Record 11 (2011). There is a shim out there that is supposed to remedy this, but I have always been able to fix it by adjusting my cable tension on the rear D while in the misshifting gear.

I still get it very rarely when I dont follow through all the way with the shift to the "click".

I love my Athena it works flawlessly. My Record works well, better and better with time, I have about 1000 miles on it now I want to say it had a break in period, where my Athena almost had none. Also My Record BB has a persistant creak that will not go away no matter what i do, I have overhauled the BB numerous times with all the suggestions on these forums and from Campy itself. laslty I installed a new BB all together and still the creak is there, I give up! It might be my Scott CR1 frame

I just built a Campy 8 speed bike, going to ride it today, the shifts take a lot more effort but are right on the mark, I am very curious to see how long they have come in 20 years.

Anyways Campy 11 is fantastic, enjoy!


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## Frankie13 (Feb 11, 2007)

I have set mine up with a trim on the 53 as well and it works great.


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## KM1.8T (Aug 11, 2007)

I have gone with the KMC SL11 gold chain on my Record 11 group and it seems to work very well. It is very smooth and quiet across the gears. As an added bonus, it has a quick link so no peening tool needed. I only have around 100 miles on it so far to we will need to wait to see how long it lasts. I do think it is quieter than my Record 10 group with the Campy chain. Good luck on the build, doing it yourself is half the fun.


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## chill716 (May 12, 2011)

No tips...., but i am jealous. I miss my campy.


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## ejprez (Nov 9, 2006)

I switched from sram red to Chorus 11 back in August and have loved the groupo since. I guess the only other thing to be mindful of is the philips head screw on the rear derailleur that adjust the height of the pulleys in relation to the cogs. I didn't do that at first and noticed that the shifting was gerat in the stand but not on the road. Once adjusted so the pulleys are closer to the cogs the shifts are right on. 

Love that you can shift 4 cogs starting from the 1st, 2nd and 3rd cogs and the goes to 3 at a time after. Obviously the 5 cog dumping is also great too. Chorus is a great workhorse group and have used it with KMC and Miche cassettes without issue.


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

tinman143 said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> Just ordered my Chorus 11 set from Ribble and doing as much research as possible. I've always done my own installs and maintenance (Shiman to Sram) and not planning to do otherwise with Campy. Aside from getting a chain tool, are they any tips you all care to share? Cheers


Welcome! Glad you don't have to wander in the wilderness anymore!

Regarding chains, I'm running a Chorus chain with the KMC 11spd Missing Link. Since I travel with my bike, I like to be able to take the chain off easily and put it in its own bag (much cleaner that way). So far it seems to function just fine, but it does seem to need special pliers to open and close the connection. I believe the tools are on the order of $15-$20 each. Maybe it will loosen up, but I don't have enough grip strength to do it. I used to run a Wippermann Connex chain and connector with the Centaur set up I had prevoiusly. That one I could take apart by hand.


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

chill716 said:


> No tips...., but i am jealous. I miss my campy.


And exactly how and why did you go wrong? My sympathies...


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## BunnV (Sep 7, 2005)

mtnroadie said:


> Congrats! I have a feeling you will be thinking "why did I go Sram to begin with?"
> 
> I see more and more people unhappy with their Sram groups, most switching to Campy. I have been Sram curios for a while but pass them up every time I start a new build, Sram really needs to step up their game with their road groups.
> 
> ...


I grew up with Campagnolo. I had it on two bikes back in the mid to late 70's. It was beautiful stuff that worked great. Soon after that I found Dura Ace and rode that for years. Now I'm on SRAM (2007 MY Force). I'm thinking about coming back to Campagnolo but I have a few concerns. 

I know that the 2011 groups are improved over the previous versions but I keep reading about shifting maladies with 11 speed. I've also read about difficulties with cable routing. I love the history, design, weight and aesthetics of Super Record but it seems finicky compared to my SRAM group which has been trouble free for 4 years and 1000's of miles. I want to embrace Campagnolo again, but even the guys that love it and own it consistently report problems in the way it performs. 

Taking the emotion out of it, why do you put up with miss shifts and creaks and long break in periods? I didn't have to deal with any of that with Dura Ace or SRAM. I'm not trying to start a flame war, I know people ride Campagnolo for more than "romance". Pro's race and win with it, but if you really look at the forums, there is a consistent theme of blind devotion to Campagnolo in spite of many nagging issues.

I'm building a new bike and had every intention of putting the new SRAM Red group on it, but I find myself looking harder at Super Record. If I spend the money for Record or Super Record, I want to have NO issues. I just want to love it like I used to. It surly looks awesome.


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

Personally, I think the idea of "NO issues" is never going to happen for ANY manufacturer and ANY system. It implies perfection and that just dowesn't exist. I rode a complete Centaur system for 6 years and no significant problems. Yes, it dropped a chain every now and then, but everybody does. And actually, I have always suspected that it was my shifting technique because it would happen twice on one ride or once on successive rides but then not reoccur for months. I could also never get the ErgoBrain to read the top 3 or 4 cogs when on the big ring.

So, on forums like this which threads are you more likely to see:


My Campagnolo system still works perfectly after 5000 miles!
OR

My Campagnolo system SUCKS!
You have to ask yourself was the system installed or maintained improperly. Someone on this forum, I think, said that the Hirth joints in the cranks were junk because he had seen one fail. There may not be a rider alive that could break a properly assembly and meshed Hirth joint. The only way for it to fail would be that the bottom bracket was too wide and the Hirth joint did not fully mesh. See, that's how S++T gets started and perpetuated by folks who look for negative press.

Consider your sources well...


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## willieboy (Nov 27, 2010)

Got just about 4000 miles on my SR11 and it's been flawless. Just getting ready for a new chain but that's it. Does what it says it will do and I really like how quiet it is. Don't think you can go wrong with Campy but I have not ridden any of their other groups. For what it's worth, I think the Shimano and SRAM products have good overall reviews as well.


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## BunnV (Sep 7, 2005)

flatlander_48 said:


> Personally, I think the idea of "NO issues" is never going to happen for ANY manufacturer and ANY system. It implies perfection and that just dowesn't exist....


Of course you are correct. I should have said, "no unacceptable issues" like some of the ones I've read about. I need to ride a new version of Campagnolo. A friend of mine has a Seven with Super Record that I tried, but it is from 2008 or 9. I rode it and thought the shifting was too "soft" feeling but it worked fine. I also did not like the thumb shifter but I'm sure I could get used to that. I hear the 2011 has a more tactile "click" which is exactly what I like about SRAM. Thanks for setting me straight on "NO issues", that was just silly.


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## tinman143 (Aug 14, 2009)

I've really had no issues with SRAM either. It's a relatively less expensive alternative which is pretty light weight (for the weenie in me) also. I'm drawn to Campy for its ability to drop numerous cogs in one fell swoop and let's face it...IT LOOKS DAMN SEXY!

Thanks all for the tips. I will have this thread open during the installation so keep adding tips if you see anything not already mentioned.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

I didn't buy the 11sp chain tool and went with Campagnolo chains + KMC 11sp links. 

They have worked great so far


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

BunnV said:


> Of course you are correct. I should have said, "no unacceptable issues" like some of the ones I've read about. I need to ride a new version of Campagnolo. A friend of mine has a Seven with Super Record that I tried, but it is from 2008 or 9. I rode it and thought the shifting was too "soft" feeling but it worked fine. I also did not like the thumb shifter but I'm sure I could get used to that. I hear the 2011 has a more tactile "click" which is exactly what I like about SRAM. Thanks for setting me straight on "NO issues", that was just silly.


If you read through some of the comments on this board, I think it is generally agreed on that SR has the least amount of tactile feel. My Record shifters have quite a bit, comparable to 10sp upper-end groupsets. Not sure about 2011 and so on, I have 2010 Record. 

Cable routing has to be done more carefully with 11sp, but unless your bike has an unusual size, I doubt this is a nearly fatal issue.


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## mtnroadie (Jul 6, 2010)

BunnV said:


> I grew up with Campagnolo. I had it on two bikes back in the mid to late 70's. It was beautiful stuff that worked great. Soon after that I found Dura Ace and rode that for years. Now I'm on SRAM (2007 MY Force). I'm thinking about coming back to Campagnolo but I have a few concerns.
> 
> I know that the 2011 groups are improved over the previous versions but I keep reading about shifting maladies with 11 speed. I've also read about difficulties with cable routing. I love the history, design, weight and aesthetics of Super Record but it seems finicky compared to my SRAM group which has been trouble free for 4 years and 1000's of miles. I want to embrace Campagnolo again, but even the guys that love it and own it consistently report problems in the way it performs.
> 
> ...


The break in period is not that big of a deal, the groups worked great from day one, they seem to work a little better now, but it could just be me. Just like with every group you can misshift. The creak honestly is a big pain in the @$$, I am furious that its still there and Campy did leave me hanging high and dry. I refuse to take my bike to an LBS, in that case their warranty is basically null and void. They just dont care, there are 5 guys working for Campy in the US and if they can ignore you they will. My emails were ignored the guy picking up the phone just fed the typical BS, it could be your cables etc etc. Typical Italian infallibility and ego.

The fact of the matter is the highest end shop (min bike price $4k) in my area wont carry Campy, unless you want it. When i asked them why, the reposnce was "its too finiky". When i asked them about my creak they said just live with it its Campy it will always creak. I have a feeling it might be my frame, because my other campy group does not creak on a Italian BB.

There are plenty of people who dont have creaking BBs. Its a bit of a gamble.

I love my Campy groups, and would buy them again given the choice. Sram is too rough around the edges for me, way too clunky, love and hate the double tap. Shimano, love the shifting feel, dont like the ergonomics, hate the looks, wieght is too heavy. For me Campy is the best choice even with its faults. Shimano is a close second but they need to work on their looks,its just hideous. Sram only for my MTB but not on my road bike, not yet.


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## tinman143 (Aug 14, 2009)

Just grabbed me the cassette locking ring tool tonight.


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

BunnV said:


> Of course you are correct. I should have said, "no unacceptable issues" like some of the ones I've read about. I need to ride a new version of Campagnolo. A friend of mine has a Seven with Super Record that I tried, but it is from 2008 or 9. I rode it and thought the shifting was too "soft" feeling but it worked fine. I also did not like the thumb shifter but I'm sure I could get used to that. I hear the 2011 has a more tactile "click" which is exactly what I like about SRAM. Thanks for setting me straight on "NO issues", that was just silly.


I own a MINI and I see the same thing on MINI forums. 6 people chime in about their clutch going bad and instantly the impression that people get is that there is an epidemic. Even if a few dozen people write in, each year there is a population of maybe 20,000+ each year with manual transmissions (total yearly sales is now up around 55,000-57,000 I think).

To me, the thumb lever is one of the best features of the product line. I believe that a lot of the prejudice against has to do with when people tried using it. I think think if folks started on Campagnolo, you wouldn't hear anything. However, I think of lot of the noise comes from people who have spent a long time on Shimano or SRAM before they try Campagnolo. It's like folks say: "Well, we didn't have any money when I grew up, but we never thought that we were poor.". Often our history goes a long ways towards shaping our opinions.


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

Last year I put SR11 on a new build after riding DuraAce forever. Never looked back. Campy just plain rocks. 

Disclaimer: this is my only experience with it outside of one test ride.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

mtnroadie said:


> The break in period is not that big of a deal, the groups worked great from day one, they seem to work a little better now, but it could just be me. Just like with every group you can misshift. The creak honestly is a big pain in the @$$, I am furious that its still there and Campy did leave me hanging high and dry. I refuse to take my bike to an LBS, in that case their warranty is basically null and void. They just dont care, there are 5 guys working for Campy in the US and if they can ignore you they will. My emails were ignored the guy picking up the phone just fed the typical BS, it could be your cables etc etc. Typical Italian infallibility and ego.
> 
> The fact of the matter is the highest end shop (min bike price $4k) in my area wont carry Campy, unless you want it. When i asked them why, the reposnce was "its too finiky". When i asked them about my creak they said just live with it its Campy it will always creak. I have a feeling it might be my frame, because my other campy group does not creak on a Italian BB.
> 
> ...


Mtnroadie, don't you live in the Boston area like I do? Which shops are these that told you to live with creaks? PM me if you don't want to answer in public.


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## mtnroadie (Jul 6, 2010)

orange_julius said:


> Mtnroadie, don't you live in the Boston area like I do? Which shops are these that told you to live with creaks? PM me if you don't want to answer in public.


ATA in Concord, good shop I like it, gave my a campy BB washer for free. They like their Shimano there. More specifically they said the problem can be fixed temporarily with a new BB but the creak will always come back. Which it did the new BB helped for a week.

Have you been able to remedy the creak?


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

mtnroadie said:


> ATA in Concord, good shop I like it, gave my a campy BB washer for free. They like their Shimano there. More specifically they said the problem can be fixed temporarily with a new BB but the creak will always come back. Which it did the new BB helped for a week.
> 
> Have you been able to remedy the creak?


Mtnroadie, I never have creaks on my bikes, all of which have Campagnolo, that's why I wondered how a shop would tell you to just live with it! 

For what it's worth, I know that Landry's mechanics in Boston actually ride Campagnolo, and they know their Campagnolo. Feel free to give them a try.


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

orange_julius said:


> Mtnroadie, I never have creaks on my bikes, all of which have Campagnolo, that's why I wondered how a shop would tell you to just live with it!
> 
> For what it's worth, I know that Landry's mechanics in Boston actually ride Campagnolo, and they know their Campagnolo. Feel free to give them a try.


None for me either with about 6 years on Centaur. We'll see how 11spd Chorus does. Sounds like BS to me...


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## mtnroadie (Jul 6, 2010)

flatlander_48 said:


> None for me either with about 6 years on Centaur. We'll see how 11spd Chorus does. Sounds like BS to me...


BS you say... why dont you look into the issue first, you will see this is a very common problem with UT bottom brackets.


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

mtnroadie said:


> BS you say... why dont you look into the issue first, you will see this is a very common problem with UT bottom brackets.


No, I'll just let you know how mine does...


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

tinman143 said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> Just ordered my Chorus 11 set from Ribble and doing as much research as possible. I've always done my own installs and maintenance (Shimano to Sram) and not planning to do otherwise with Campy. Aside from getting a chain tool, are there any tips you all care to share? Cheers


KMC makes 11 Missing link. No need for the chain tool


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## Frankie13 (Feb 11, 2007)

I'm riding Campagnolo since 2008, first 10 speed and from day one 11speed SR and Record on all of my bikes and had never any noice issues from my bb. I ride at least 12000 miles a year and had never any problems with the entire system. Never looked back after coming off Shimano from my first bike a Trek Madone 5.2 that by the way got the Campagnolo 10s in 2008 when I changed to the first 11s.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

This UT BB debacle...

UT (and PT) puts demands on the BB shell that were "forgotten" when cartridge (square taper) BBs were the norm.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

I have 4 bikes with UT, none of them creak.

mtnroadie, you have probably a defective one or a bad installation.

I'd remove it and check a few things.

- check if the frame's bb was properly faced, if the cups are not parallel then you have a problem, sometimes it could be the paint, on other cases the bb itself, you need a pro mechanic to re-face it. 

- check the axels, see if there is some uneven wear, that would point to the facing problem.

- check if the bearings are smooth, without play, and installed full atthe bottom of the axels. If they are defective they can be replaced for around $30, you need an special tool for that. Also see if the water seals are between crank and bearing.

- check if the wavy washer is in the non drive side and if the bolt is tight. Check also if the circlip was installed properly,

- clean and Re-grease all parts with quality grease before reinstalling.


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## Kai Winters (Aug 23, 2009)

I'm on the same Campy mix of Carbon Record/Chorus 9speed system since '99. It works perfectly, smooth shifting, very little need to readjust once dialed in.
I've put 3 to 5k miles on the bike since building it in '99 and have never had a problem.

I'm envious of the new stuff and at some point in time I'll get a frame and again use Campy but it is hard when my bike and drive work so well.

Good luck and enjoy.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

Salsa_Lover said:


> I have 4 bikes with UT, none of them creak.
> 
> mtnroadie, you have probably a defective one or a bad installation.
> 
> ...


Haha, you missed step zero, Salsa, which is to make sure the BB width is within spec. ;-)

The Campa installation video in fact spends most of its time checking the BB width, and making sure that the BB are faced properly as you say.


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## mtnroadie (Jul 6, 2010)

Salsa_Lover said:


> I have 4 bikes with UT, none of them creak.
> 
> mtnroadie, you have probably a defective one or a bad installation.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tips, yeah i have basically been through all those steps and then some. The BB width is the right tolerance, unfortunately its a carbon frame with an aluminum insert all the LBSs i have contacted and Campy said it cannot be faced. I even used the super expensive Loctite 222 for the last 2 overhauls, I have done it 4 times the LBS did it once. Also I noticed that my wavy washer was missing! when I overhauled it after the LBS did. So either they misplaced it or the LBS who initially installed the crank misplaced it.

Also i have tried various torque ranges on the Hirth joint/bolt and the cups themselves. I do however notice the creak subsides some when its cold out. Which I think further confirms its the BB shells creaking in the frame. The frame is a 2009 Scott CR1 w/ English BB, which never creaked with the Shimano BB it had before.

Campy also suggested I use some anti-sieze on the outer edges on the bearings, it helped a bit for a while.

I just rode my Bianchi with an Italian BB and Athena UT crank no creaks, but it has another UT issue. Anyways I am thinking its my frame, hoping a new frame will remedy the creak.


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## willieboy (Nov 27, 2010)

mtnroadie said:


> Campy also suggested I use some anti-sieze on the outer edges on the bearings, it helped a bit for a while.


My LBS did the anti-seize thing to my bottom bracket recently because I had a small creak when out of the saddle. It did the trick  Hope it doesn't come back.


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## tommyturbo (Jan 24, 2002)

I'm closing in on 100,000 miles on Campy 10 and 11 speed, used with six different bikes, all with English threaded BB's. I have never heard even a hint of a BB noise. I have a Record 10 crank (the rest of the bike is SR11) with about 27,000 miles on it, still with the original bearings running as smoothly as when it was new. I also have a SR crank with the ceramic bearings that is quiet as a mouse.

If there was some type of systemic problem, I think that I likely would have experienced it by now.

I'm not an engineer, but I have always read that the Hirth joint is very reliable. You mentioned that you have a carbon shell with an aluminum insert. Do you have an all carbon BB shell with alloy adapters for PF30 or BB30? That combination has been known to cause problems.


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## mtnroadie (Jul 6, 2010)

tommyturbo said:


> I'm closing in on 100,000 miles on Campy 10 and 11 speed, used with six different bikes, all with English threaded BB's. I have never heard even a hint of a BB noise. I have a Record 10 crank (the rest of the bike is SR11) with about 27,000 miles on it, still with the original bearings running as smoothly as when it was new. I also have a SR crank with the ceramic bearings that is quiet as a mouse.
> 
> If there was some type of systemic problem, I think that I likely would have experienced it by now.
> 
> I'm not an engineer, but I have always read that the Hirth joint is very reliable. You mentioned that you have a carbon shell with an aluminum insert. Do you have an all carbon BB shell with alloy adapters for PF30 or BB30? That combination has been known to cause problems.



yeah its just a regular threaded aluminum shell. The bearings are great still very smooth on both of my UT cranks.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

The wavy washer function is exactly to compensate for slightly out-of-norm, non-perfectly-faced frames so maybe that's the problem, you can buy it from some online sources, CRC etc.


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## askmass (Sep 28, 2009)

I've never ridden SRAM, but worked my way up the Shimano line to DA and was never truly 100% happy with any of it. Switched over to Chorus a couple years ago on a new build and have been waving the Campy flag ever since. Love it.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

mtnroadie said:


> Thanks for the tips, yeah i have basically been through all those steps and then some. The BB width is the right tolerance, unfortunately its a carbon frame with an aluminum insert all the LBSs i have contacted and Campy said it cannot be faced. I even used the super expensive Loctite 222 for the last 2 overhauls, I have done it 4 times the LBS did it once. Also I noticed that my wavy washer was missing! when I overhauled it after the LBS did. So either they misplaced it or the LBS who initially installed the crank misplaced it.


What frame is it? I had clicking & creaking issues with an Extralite crankset on my VXRS a while back. Turned out the BB shell was not perfectly faced so varied by almost 3/4 mm around. It is a carbon BB shell with and alloy insert. Faced it and it's been fine for 2 years.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

mtnroadie said:


> Thanks for the tips, yeah i have basically been through all those steps and then some. The BB width is the right tolerance, unfortunately its a carbon frame with an aluminum insert all the LBSs i have contacted and Campy said it cannot be faced. I even used the super expensive Loctite 222 for the last 2 overhauls, I have done it 4 times the LBS did it once. *Also I noticed that my wavy washer was missing! when I overhauled it after the LBS did. So either they misplaced it or the LBS who initially installed the crank misplaced it.*
> 
> Also i have tried various torque ranges on the Hirth joint/bolt and the cups themselves. I do however notice the creak subsides some when its cold out. Which I think further confirms its the BB shells creaking in the frame. The frame is a 2009 Scott CR1 w/ English BB, which never creaked with the Shimano BB it had before.
> 
> ...


Wow, that's amazing. To miss the wavy washer is a serious mistake! I hope you didn't go back to that shop. Was this ATA?


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## mtnroadie (Jul 6, 2010)

orange_julius said:


> Wow, that's amazing. To miss the wavy washer is a serious mistake! I hope you didn't go back to that shop. Was this ATA?


Nope not ATA, there are two shops that are culprits but since I dont know exactly when it went missing I wont be pointing any fingers. Yeah I was speechless when I saw it missing. This is exactly why i do all my own work on my bikes.


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## captain stubbing (Mar 30, 2011)

BunnV said:


> I know that the 2011 groups are improved over the previous versions but I keep reading about shifting maladies with 11 speed. I've also read about difficulties with cable routing. I love the history, design, weight and aesthetics of Super Record but it seems finicky compared to my SRAM group which has been trouble free for 4 years and 1000's of miles. I want to embrace Campagnolo again, but even the guys that love it and own it consistently report problems in the way it performs.
> 
> are you having a laugh?
> 
> ...


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## BunnV (Sep 7, 2005)

captain stubbing said:


> are you having a laugh?
> 
> just check the SRAM forum and compare to Campy forum.....appears to me that SRAM users are having lots of problems. oh dear, the SRAM front shifting seems to a major problem and lots of people seem to think it runs better with shimano cassettes and chains.
> 
> ...


Fact. I have a Dura Ace chain.
Fact. RED front derailleurs are garbage
Fact. I have FORCE
Fact. I have the same shifters, front and rear derailleurs since 2007, 12,000 miles, no issues. 
Fact. I've changed my RED cassette for a Rival cassette, not because of wear but to change ratios. 
Fact I changed my outer chainring once, it was shifting the chain off the outside.

I don't disagree with anything you've said and I'm not laughing at anyone. Just asking. Thanks for the input.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

I keep reading about Campagnolo being "finicky". 

I guess that means you have to be a competent mechanic to install it right.

I have record 2010 on 2 of my bikes , a version qualified as finickier or more problematic. But I don't have problems. The thing is I installed it myself and I did took care to watch the Campagnolo instructional videos and did it right.

The mediocre mechanics are the ones who call Campagnolo "finicky", meaning "I can't do my usual monkey business on this stuff".

I tell you a true story. When I installed my first Record 11, I didn't have the chain tool so I went to the only shop in my city that carries Campagnolo and that had the tool. Just to close the chain.

The guy was doing it wrong, he put the pin from the wrong side and was ready to cut out the bit you have to punch to secure the chain! Fortunately I was there and told him he was doing it wrong and had to teach him how to do it. And the guy was telling me he always had done it like this, with some dozens of installations on the street like this.

Those are the kind of mechanics that call Campagnolo "finicky", I can't even imagine how it would be if he had installed the full gruppo.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

Salsa_Lover said:


> I keep reading about Campagnolo being "finicky".
> 
> I guess that means you have to be a competent mechanic to install it right.
> 
> ...


The larger problem here is that since Campagnolo lost the OEM battle decades ago, fewer and fewer shops carry Campagnolo and fewer mechanics have the know-how the properly install and maintain Campagnolo. 

Heck, for lower-end frames it seems there are fewer and fewer large manufacturers who supply everybody under the sun, so of course there is more consolidation across the industry.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

Salsa_Lover said:


> The mediocre mechanics are the ones who call Campagnolo "finicky", meaning "I can't do my usual monkey business on this stuff".


I would tend to agree with this. For the record, I am riding what is probably one of the first SR11 groups to arrive in the US, installed in the fall of 2009. It's been performing nothing short of perfect ever since. I honestly have no idea what those people who are calling the 11-speed groups "finicky" are talking about. Unless I am changing wheels, I never need to touch my derailleur adjustments, ever. If I switch between my rear Shamal and the Zipp, I need to turn the derailleur adjustment by one half turn. That's it, I make that half-turn twist and go ride, no other fiddling of any kind required. I really don't know what else I could ask for from any groupset.


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

Salsa_Lover said:


> I keep reading about Campagnolo being "finicky".


Always seemed like propaganda to me...


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## tinman143 (Aug 14, 2009)

Forgot to mention this: I'm running a 3D Rotor Compact crank with Q Rings and have read that they're fine on Campy 11. I know this could lessen shift quality vs. going the 11 crank route. Anyone with experience chime in on this? Are there any other chain rings I can look in to?


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## tinman143 (Aug 14, 2009)

bump for comments on my last question...


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## cohiba7777 (Jul 6, 2006)

Went from Red to Chorus myself this year - as many have already said, I am unsure why I waited so long. 

You will be thrilled with your set up and posting shortly about the wonders of Italian engineering - dare il benvenuto alla famiglia!


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## ejprez (Nov 9, 2006)

After reading all the new refinements of the new red group, I still don't regret changing. IMO, Sram sort of copied the Campy shifter shape, and the new crank is hollow carbon like record and super record, but mainly the took the campy coated pulley wheel idea to quit down the drivetrain. The cassette and front derailleur are interesting and new brakes.


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## Kristatos (Jan 10, 2008)

tinman143 said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> Just ordered my Chorus 11 set from Ribble and doing as much research as possible. I've always done my own installs and maintenance (Shimano to Sram) and not planning to do otherwise with Campy. Aside from getting a chain tool, are there any tips you all care to share? Cheers


Couple things to consider:

Campy is using Torx T-25 bolts for the shifters and in a couple other places. Install of the shifters is going to be much easier if you have a p-style T-25. You can do it with a Y-wrench but it's more of a PITA. 

You'll need a long hex wrench for the hirth style joint in the BB axle. I don't remember the size but it's maybe 8mm? It's good to have in case you ever need to pull the cranks, tighten it up, etc. Use a big wrench and get that joint tightened to the spec.

BB cups come coated with a loctite type compound already on them. Ignore the instructions in the manual and simply hand tighten them, then use your BB cup tool of choice to crank them down good and tight. 

Barrel adjusters and ferrules don't always fit the Campy sheath. 

Follow the manual instructions on derailleur install and setup to the letter. Everyone I know (including me) that has built a bunch of Shimano and SRAM bikes F's up their first Campy build when it comes to shifting as the process is different. Following the process in the Campy tech sheet works great. 

I use a regular Park chain tool on my 11spd Campy chains (and a couple builds I've done for friends) and never had a problem. I know at least one LBS that does the same with no issues. I wouldn't waste my time or money on the Campy chain tool. If you've removed and installed chains a bunch and know how to do it without fat-fingering it you'll be fine. 

Can't think of anything else off the top, but you'll love the Chorus coming from SRAM in my view. I still have one bike with Red (2 with R-11) and the Campy is superior I think. Have fun with the build!


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

10mm for the Crank Bolt, there is an special Campy extender to use with a torque wrhench and there are some long "L" wrenches in 10mm that cost little. 

I went with the long "L" wrench and have not had any problem.

for the BB Cups Kristatos advice is right

Insert the cables on the Ergos before you set the ergos in the bars, they are a real PITA to insert through the white plastic router when they are tight on the bars.

I did buy the 11sp KMC links for the chains, they work great and you can remove them too ( even if they say they are not reusable I open and close the chain when I do maintenance )

It is right that the Campagnolo mechanical philosophy is different if you approach it the SHIRAM way you would end doing things wrong, Campagnolo mechanisms are more precise and lack the "floating" characteristics of SHIRAM that let you do more sloppy work, so you have to work it more carefully, but it is not rocket science, just do it right and follow the instructions on the technical docs and videos.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*suggestions...*

NEVER use the loctite method. If in doubt about the squareness of the faces to the BB threads, screw the cups in until they contact a .010 inch feeler gage. Then use .008-.0012 inch feelers to search for high or low spots. If no area around the face exceeds those limits, then there is no need for facing. There is also no reason that any frame can't be faced, if needed. Proper facing would only remove the smallest amount of material needed to create a full contact area with the facing tool. As long as the facing tool's OD is as least as large as the cup's contact diameter, there will be no problem.

Install the cups with grease on the threads, and all areas where the bearing contacts the cup. Since your cups are used and were ridden without the wave washer (huge mistake), I would start with new cups.

Creaks can be caused by other things as simple as the chainring mounting areas needing a few drops of penetrating lube, a loose rear skewer or pedals and cleats.


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## jazclrint (Dec 29, 2009)

I have some experience working bikes shops, and currently work in one now. Initial setup on Campy stuff is a bit tedious, but like any other group really, it makes all the difference and less tuning needed down the road. 

I have earned the loyalty of the few local Campy riders after just a few months. I have come to the conclusion that most mechanics have no idea how to tune Campy stuff. Although, some day I would like to work in a shop where "Campagnolo" wasn't considered a swear word.


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## Marz (May 14, 2006)

"Follow the manual instructions on derailleur install and setup to the letter. Everyone I know (including me) that has built a bunch of Shimano and SRAM bikes F's up their first Campy build when it comes to shifting as the process is different. Following the process in the Campy tech sheet works great."

That's all I've ever done, just followed the instructions supplied with the components.

I Have Never Had A Problem With Installation And Set Up.

I will never, repeat, never trust an LBS to touch my Campagnolo bikes after experiences I've had with high end shops. Maybe they become jaded after putting together so many bikes. Whereas for me, building the bike is almost as much fun as riding it.


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## tinman143 (Aug 14, 2009)

Thanks for all the comments. Besides a few minor blockers, this was a straight forward install and I've never had to touch it since. I love how the shifting feels: each click equates to your bike being in x gear vs. forcing it in - hard to describe. As many have described, shifting sits somewhere bt Sh-ram. I really believe after a few months of using Chorus that I will be sticking with Campy for a long time. Not sure why it took so long!


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## BunnV (Sep 7, 2005)

Marz said:


> I will never, repeat, never trust an LBS to touch my[ANY]bike after experiences I've had with high end shops. Maybe they become jaded after putting together so many bikes. Whereas for me, building the bike is almost as much fun as riding it.




I love building my own bikes too. I agree that it's almost as much fun as riding! :thumbsup:


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## Bill Bikie (Jul 24, 2010)

tinman143 said:


> Hey folks,
> Aside from getting a chain tool, are there any tips you all care to share? Cheers


On a Campy derailleur the fine adjustment starts when the chain is on the middle cog or cogs, not at the smallest (11-12 etc.) as with Shimano's.

Meaning: If the chain is quiet and shifts smoothly at the 15,16, and 17 tooth cogs, you're ready to rock'n roll.


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## cohiba7777 (Jul 6, 2006)

*RED to Chorus*

When from Red to Chorus this year on my new Moots build up - couldn't be more pleased! Shifts MUCH more smoothly than my RED ever did & I was fortunate that my LBS has trained SRAM and Campy wrenches, so I had top-shelf installs on both kits. I've not used Record or SR & know they are probably beyond my needs, so I am limited to the Chorus line for reference - but I love it and wouldn't go back to SRAM.


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## Bikephelps (Jan 23, 2012)

I have Ultegra on my tandem, Record 10 on my Roubaix, Chorus 10 on my vintage Colnago Master, new Ultegra 10 on my Ritchey Breakaway & Chorus 11 on my Colnago E-1. They all work extremely well but the Chorus 11 is my favorite. The new Ultegra is also quite impressive. I was expecting utilitarian but it far exceeded my expectations. I love Campy but I wouldn't hesitate recommending the new Ultegra to a friend.


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## chrisclougherty (Mar 23, 2007)

*The clicks*



tinman143 said:


> Thanks for all the comments. Besides a few minor blockers, this was a straight forward install and I've never had to touch it since. I love how the shifting feels: each click equates to your bike being in x gear vs. forcing it in - hard to describe. As many have described, shifting sits somewhere bt Sh-ram. I really believe after a few months of using Chorus that I will be sticking with Campy for a long time. Not sure why it took so long!


You're right, Tinman. It's the precision and the feel. Once you get it, many people really, really like it. I've had Record and Chorus for about 10 years, and they are as good as it gets. Not running down Shimano or SRAM. But still, Campy's great.


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