# Taking the plunge.



## misterdangerpants (Oct 23, 2008)

Okay, so I've been lurking in this forum on and off in an attempt to learn a little about cyclocross. I've also checked out other cyclocross sites and some of the blogs that are linked in the signatures. Anyway, it looks like fun and I'd like to try it out next season. I wanted to jump in this past season, but had surgery on my elbow in late August (medial epicondylitis) and that set me back a few months.  

I am not going to be using a cyclocross bike, but rather a drop bar mountain bike. This is my third take on building this frame and fork, though the second take was quite nice. Here's a photo of my progress so far:

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It's a Ted Wojcik steel frame with a Chris Igleheart segmented fork (Chris King headset). When I had Ted originally build this in 2007, I had the frame built with the disc tabs. In hindsight, I wouldn't do it again. I love cantilever brakes. I'm currently having Independent Fabrication build me a titanium Deluxe, which will have the exact geometry as my 1994 Rhygin Ra, and stuck with the cantilevers. That being said, I'll suck it up and slap on some Avis BB7s with Cane Creek levers. The wheels are hand built and have Phil Wood hubs and NOS Mavic 231 rims (just in case I want to use rime brakes at some point). Tires will be Schwalbe CX Pro, as they come in a 26" fitment. Any other recommendations would be appreciated. It's going to be a single speed, so I'm installing a Rennen Rollenlager and their single speed spacer kit & cog. Aside from this, I'm going to use stuff from my parts bin and cheap-o parts. The stem and handebars are Easton EA30 (closeout from REI) and just got a Kalloy seat post that was also uber cheap. Haven't decided on the crankset/bottom bracket yet, though am searching CraigsList periodically. It would be nice to have a real cyclocross bike, but I already had the frame/fork/wheels and considering I had 4 major bike projects last year, I'm going to see how this works.

Okay, some questions: First, I'm looking for a good book or website that has all the rules and some good pointers about technique. I looked at Cyclocross: Training and Technique (Simon Burney), and it was okay, but just wasn't all that excited about it. I guess I was looking for something that was similar to "Allen & Mike's Really Cool Backcountry Ski Book." Something that had a fun feel to it. Again, I'm new to this, and don't know a lot about the literature. There were other books, but the Burney book seems to get a lot of mention. Secondly, I'm a tad confused about the disc brake rules. I'm only going to do local races (I live in the metropolitan Boston area), so maybe this is a moot point. From what I understand it is, but just want to make sure. Also, are there different rules/regulations/categories for 26" wheels? I gather because I won't be winning, maybe this is a moot point also. I've also been researching the USA Cycling site (downloaded both the USA Cycling and UCI rule books).

Anyway, my aim is to have fun, and not so much to be competitive. Meet some other cycling enthusiasts. Enjoy nature.  I figured I start the process in the off-season so I could have some time to complete the build and get some practice in.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*cool, it looks like fun*

buy the DVD "Pure Sweet Hell"

the cx scene has the greatest people in cycling. the crowd and racer vibe is infectious

the Burney book is the Bible. Get a copy, it isn't much 'fun' but it contains all you'll need to know

you will find rather quickly you will want skinnier 700s so I'd hold off on a second bike

welcome to the tribe, get ready for a really weird addiction


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

Will that frameset clear 700C wheels with CX tires? If so, disc tabs might have been the way to go after all.

Here is a pic for comparison. The MTB wheels have WW LT 2.55s and the CX wheel has an Allterrainasaurus 32C


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*it is always funny*

when MTBers say "Let's see your rigid, drop bar 29ers" and you post pix of your cx bike.
riding a cx bike on most of my local trails reminds me that most of thetime on our MTBs we run waaayy too much rubber


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## colinr (Nov 20, 2006)

As far as I know, disc brakes are USA Cycling legal but not UCI legal. As long as you don't jump into any UCI races (you won't, trust me) it's a not a problem. I did hear a rumor of an official once telling someone they couldn't race the C race with disc brakes at gloucester, back in the day, which I believe is total bull and a sign that official didn't know what he or she was talking about. 

There's a small chance the rule has changed, but I couldn't quickly google up anything about it if so. Anyway, the odds of being barred from a C race around Boston because of disc brakes are veryveryvery low. Similarly, there's no wheel size restriction outside of UCI races so you can rock the 26ers freely.

The C classes are full of people who are mostly clueless about the nuances of racing cross, and that's a good thing. Don't worry too much about getting your technique down or knowing exactly what you're doing; just jump in a race and have at it. The fields locally were huge last year, so no matter how out of shape and/or confused you are you'll have people to race against.


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## misterdangerpants (Oct 23, 2008)

atpjunkie said:


> buy the DVD "Pure Sweet Hell"
> 
> the cx scene has the greatest people in cycling. the crowd and racer vibe is infectious
> 
> ...


Gotcha, thanks!


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## misterdangerpants (Oct 23, 2008)

PeanutButterBreath said:


> Will that frameset clear 700C wheels with CX tires? If so, disc tabs might have been the way to go after all.


Coincidentally, last night while I was in my humble little workshop, I slapped on the front wheel from my road bike just for giggles to see it if would fit and it did. :thumbsup: I gather I could get some 700c rims and lace them up to the hubs, but am going to run the current setup until I at least get one event under my belt. The Schwalbe CX Pro tires are 16x1.35, so that'll suffice for the time being (or at least I'm hoping they will!).


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## misterdangerpants (Oct 23, 2008)

colinr said:


> As far as I know, disc brakes are USA Cycling legal but not UCI legal. As long as you don't jump into any UCI races (you won't, trust me) it's a not a problem. I did hear a rumor of an official once telling someone they couldn't race the C race with disc brakes at gloucester, back in the day, which I believe is total bull and a sign that official didn't know what he or she was talking about.
> 
> There's a small chance the rule has changed, but I couldn't quickly google up anything about it if so. Anyway, the odds of being barred from a C race around Boston because of disc brakes are veryveryvery low. Similarly, there's no wheel size restriction outside of UCI races so you can rock the 26ers freely.
> 
> The C classes are full of people who are mostly clueless about the nuances of racing cross, and that's a good thing. Don't worry too much about getting your technique down or knowing exactly what you're doing; just jump in a race and have at it. The fields locally were huge last year, so no matter how out of shape and/or confused you are you'll have people to race against.


Thanks for the informative reply. I have researched the disc brake thing ad nauseam and came up with the same information you presented, but just wanted to make sure. I think the biggest race I would want to do is Gloucester, so as long as I can join in on the fun, that'll be groovy. And yeah, I'm the type to just jump in and see what happens. I've watched a lot of videos and have a pretty good idea of the gist of things. Or at least that's what I keep telling myself....


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## suspectdevice (Feb 2, 2008)

Picking up a set of Notubes Ztr 700c wheels will be the way to go. Those rims work extremely well with cross clinchers setup tubeless.

You should be 100% fine with the discs, btw.


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## Applesauce (Aug 4, 2007)

atpjunkie said:


> when MTBers say "Let's see your rigid, drop bar 29ers" and you post pix of your cx bike.
> riding a cx bike on most of my local trails reminds me that most of thetime on our MTBs we run waaayy too much rubber


Yeah, and riding my road bike on most of the local trails reminds me that most CXers don't _need_ CX bikes - just the balls to drift a little, and a more durable road bike. Giant tires let you do things skinny tires don't; cross bikes let you not worry about breaking your road bike.


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## misterdangerpants (Oct 23, 2008)

Applesauce said:


> Yeah, and riding my road bike on most of the local trails reminds me that most CXers don't _need_ CX bikes - just the balls to drift a little, and a more durable road bike. Giant tires let you do things skinny tires don't; cross bikes let you not worry about breaking your road bike.


It's interesting you mention that because I also thought about putting cyclocross tires on my road bike (the orange bike in the background in the above photo). I didn't think they'd fit though.


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## misterdangerpants (Oct 23, 2008)

suspectdevice said:


> Picking up a set of Notubes Ztr 700c wheels will be the way to go. Those rims work extremely well with cross clinchers setup tubeless.
> 
> You should be 100% fine with the discs, btw.


Cool, thanks for the advice and the tip. I'm running tubeless on my Rhygin and didn't even think about that approach for cyclocross. Definitely going to look into this type of setup.


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## Applesauce (Aug 4, 2007)

misterdangerpants said:


> It's interesting you mention that because I also thought about putting cyclocross tires on my road bike (the orange bike in the background in the above photo). I didn't they'd fit though.


Oh, I never have. But I've ridden most of Boulder's Front Range "commuter trails," from Bobalink to Community Ditch to Marshall Mesa to Coatlon, Koppenburg, etc., on 23c Michelin Pro Races. I see and pass "mountain bikers" and guys on CX bikes all the time. Mostly that just goes to show that the real mountain biking in the area is - surprise! - in the mountains, because I've ridden TONS of sh!t up there that I wouldn't even ride _past_ on my road bike. (Don't tell that to the moneyed wastrels who commute to Vic's on their Mavericks every morning.) It's all about what level of control - or more so, lack thereof - you're comfortable with.


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## misterdangerpants (Oct 23, 2008)

.....


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## colinr (Nov 20, 2006)

If we're gonna go yelling at inflammatory threadjackers (must be the offseason...) then surely atpjunkie deserves an honorable mention for bringing up the utterly irrelevant point that sometime people ride mountain bikes on smooth trails and golly gee, aren't those mountain bikers silly?? Which is what got applesauce all excited to do some posturing of his own.

And I guess I should also get a medal for continuing the train of idiocy, huzzah.


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## misterdangerpants (Oct 23, 2008)

colinr said:


> If we're gonna go yelling at inflammatory threadjackers (must be the offseason...) then surely atpjunkie deserves an honorable mention for bringing up the utterly irrelevant point that sometime people ride mountain bikes on smooth trails and golly gee, aren't those mountain bikers silly?? Which is what got applesauce all excited to do some posturing of his own.
> 
> And I guess I should also get a medal for continuing the train of idiocy, huzzah.


Well, *atpjunkie* did provide some beneficial information, so I cut him some slack. :thumbsup: 

I drove into my Boston office today so I'm a little on edge....


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## misterdangerpants (Oct 23, 2008)

An update: Finished the project, and really am liking it. Still working out some little bugs, but hopefully it'll be ready by the weekend and certainly for next season. See you then!  

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## bikenerd (Jan 22, 2004)

nice stem, dangerpants! Seriously, BEAUTIFUL bike. Every detail. I love it. Hope it's as nice to ride as to look at. If you ever tire of it, send it my way.

And re: Applesauce, he may be brusque, but he shoots straight. I value his opinions. And because he seems to be the closest thing we still have around here to the dearly departed Alienator, I cherish him!


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## towerscum (Mar 3, 2006)

That bike is sweet! That Ted guy sure does make pretty welds.


towerscum


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## vanjr (Sep 15, 2005)

This is a very noob question, but how much seat post can you have? Is there a limit? Nice colors btw way. From his website Mr. W also appears to make some nice pure cross rides as well.


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## singlering (Feb 19, 2006)

*it is always funny*

When you show up for a MTB race with gigantic 29" 850 gram tires and you can ride away from people on skinny-light tires, just because on single track there is no such thing as too much tire. Not for me anyway.


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## philoanna (Dec 2, 2007)

*bar tape*

Dangerpants,
What kind of bar tape is that and where can I get me some?


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## misterdangerpants (Oct 23, 2008)

philoanna said:


> Dangerpants,
> What kind of bar tape is that and where can I get me some?


Fizik Microtex Apple Green.


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## philoanna (Dec 2, 2007)

Thank you!


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## rkj__ (Mar 21, 2007)

That turned out pretty nice.


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## adimiro (Jun 28, 2007)

(1) Drooool...on the bike. Impeccable taste (especially the others in the photo background). Nothing like a handmade bike frame.


(2) THe Simon Burney book is over-rated just because it's the only thing out there. Other than for the very basics in CX, it is not particularly informative. But again....it is all that's out there. 

(3) There is an instructional video put out by "Cycle Smart" (or something similar) that I found helpful especially since you can watch, pause, replay, slo-mo, etc.


Looking forward to the ride report and more pics to drool over.


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## FrontRanger (May 19, 2004)

Never quite understood the need for books/videos to learn to cross race. Now granted I suck but that is purely due to lack of real fitness. Go to a race and watch. Then get on your bike and ride. Not a whole lot of mystery to it.


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## adimiro (Jun 28, 2007)

FrontRanger said:


> . Go to a race and watch. Then get on your bike and ride. Not a whole lot of mystery to it.


Nobody said it was mysterious, just that not many races this time of year...and for many unlucky budding CX racers, not alot of nearby races to go and watch even during peak season.


So watching/learning CX via books, CD's, race videos, you-tube is the best alternative.


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## misterdangerpants (Oct 23, 2008)

rkj__ said:


> That turned out pretty nice.


Thanks!


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## misterdangerpants (Oct 23, 2008)

adimiro said:


> (1) Drooool...on the bike. Impeccable taste (especially the others in the photo background). Nothing like a handmade bike frame.


Wow, thanks for the compliment! Indeed, nothing like a handmade frame. All my bikes are locally made (1992 Fat Chance Yo Eddy, 1994 Rhygin Ra, 2008 Independent Fabrication Titanium Crown Jewel, and a 2009 Independent Fabrication Deluxe currently being built). I figure if you're going to spend some major coin on a bike, well then, keeping it local is a nice thing to do.



adimiro said:


> (2) THe Simon Burney book is over-rated just because it's the only thing out there. Other than for the very basics in CX, it is not particularly informative. But again....it is all that's out there.


I think the thing I didn't like was the name dropping. There were so many photographs of elite riders at work, but they were pretty useless I thought. As I mentioned before, I really was looking for something in the genre of Allen & Mike's Really Cool Backcountry Ski Book. Even though I'm an experienced outdoorsman, I still enjoy going back and reading through this book. Anyway, for now, I might just keep surfing the web when I can for some information.



adimiro said:


> (3) There is an instructional video put out by "Cycle Smart" (or something similar) that I found helpful especially since you can watch, pause, replay, slo-mo, etc.


Groovy, thanks for the tip. I actually looked at some videos that people in this forum have posted also.



adimiro said:


> Looking forward to the ride report and more pics to drool over.


Okay, so the ride report: It's a pretty nice handling bike in this configuration. I took it out for a 30 mile ride last week (with the nobby mountain bike tires!), and everything performed wonderfully. While I had the tires on, I got some trail riding on (less than 20 miles, but enough to get an accurate assessment) and it's quite nimble. The geometry is pretty much perfect, so I lucked out with the current stem as I guessed at what would fit. Similar to my other East Coast single track bikes, handling can be a little squirrelly if my weight if a tad too far forward. Even after 15 years of riding my Rhygin, I still sometimes end-o if I'm not paying attention. The Ted is a bit longer, so it's not as extreme, though if I'm not careful I gather I might end up ass-over-tea-kettle at some point.

It's a pretty light bike (haven't weighed it yet), so it'll be easy to pick up, but it's also easy to bunny hop. Though, with the current Maxxis Hookworm slicks, it's not so light. These tires are awesome for urban cruising, and are actually okay on the trails. Once CX season approaches, I'll slap on some Schwalbe CX Pro tires. On the brake front. I really do like disc. They really are the best brakes going, but will always prefer cantilevers. This bike initially had Shimano XTR hydraulics, and they were definitely better, but the mechanicals work just fine. I'm diagnosing some chatter on the front end during hard braking, and having figured it out yet. I like the Cane Creek levers. They have a nice feel to them.

I'm new to the single speed world, though am getting accustomed to it. I find myself out of the saddle a little more, but am able to power through most everything. I'm running a 36 tooth chainring and a 13 tooth cog. I also have a 19 tooth cog, but haven't tried it out yet (my Huffy Thunder Road back in the late 1970s had a 36:19, and I remember liking it!). I also have a 34 tooth chainring, again that I haven't used. I also retired the Rohloff tensioner and installed a Soulcraft Convert. Also dumped the Rennen spaces for Surly. After some minor adjustments, it's been spot on in keeping everything in order.

I take every winter off from cycling (I just got a trainer, so that might change next year), so I'm getting my cycling legs back. I'm running the Boston Marathon in a couple of weeks, so I'm focusing more on that at the moment. Anyway, some gratuitous photos from the final build:

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## misterdangerpants (Oct 23, 2008)

FrontRanger said:


> Go to a race and watch.


Also going to do that.


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## Paralizer (Jan 26, 2009)

misterdangerpants said:


> Okay, so I've been lurking in this forum on and off in an attempt to learn a little about cyclocross. I've also checked out other cyclocross sites and some of the blogs that are linked in the signatures. Anyway, it looks like fun and I'd like to try it out next season. I wanted to jump in this past season, but had surgery on my elbow in late August (medial epicondylitis) and that set me back a few months.


I've had 3 epicondylar releases and a ulnar transposition, switch to Cross. I just came back from my 1st ride on my new Gunnar CrossHairs. Absolutely no twinges or aches in my elbow. And minimal issues with numbness in my hand. Once I found some hand positions that worked, it was much easier then my mountain bike bars with extensions. Give switching some serious consideration. I was going to modify my mountain bike, but after all the stuff I read about Cross bikes I decided to make the switch. Good luck with your arm...isn't PT fun?


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## misterdangerpants (Oct 23, 2008)

Paralizer said:


> I've had 3 epicondylar releases and a ulnar transposition, switch to Cross. I just came back from my 1st ride on my new Gunnar CrossHairs. Absolutely no twinges or aches in my elbow. And minimal issues with numbness in my hand. Once I found some hand positions that worked, it was much easier then my mountain bike bars with extensions. Give switching some serious consideration. I was going to modify my mountain bike, but after all the stuff I read about Cross bikes I decided to make the switch. Good luck with your arm...isn't PT fun?


Ouch! I hope you're all healed! I'm still feeling pain almost 8 months after surgery. Just saw my orthopedic and he gave me some exercises and stretches to do. He assured me the pain is not radiating from the screw that now holds the tendon in place, nor is it coming from the sutures around the bone. It's most likely the nerve that runs through there. He mentioned cortisone, though that's an option of last resort. I had two shots prior to surgery and it did nothing. I'm crossing my fingers the healing process speeds up. And yes, PT was fantastic, but far too short! Damn health insurance....

For now, this bike will suffice. As I said, it fits perfectly. It rides really nice also, and it's a super smooth rig. The Phil Wood hubs really are quite amazing (wicked fast) and whisper quiet. I have an Independent Fabrication Deluxe currently in production (due sometime this month), so that's the next bike I'll focus on. I'm actually really excited about it as it's an exact replica (geometry-wise) of my Rhygin, though it's a rigid bike. Back to basics!  Anyway, if I really like this activity, I'll take the plunge and have Ted build me up a CX frame along with a nice Igleheart fork. Maybe next year as my bike budget has been depleted due to the addition of a wedding budget.


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## C Cow (Oct 1, 2007)

*Magic Gear Ratio*



misterdangerpants said:


> An update: Finished the project, and really am liking it. Still working out some little bugs, but hopefully it'll be ready by the weekend and certainly for next season. See you then!
> 
> That's a beautiful ride!
> SInce you apparently don't mind tinkering and taking your time to get things right, you should "find" your magic gear ratio, and leave that tensioner off. It's worth the effort. You'll be able to get within 1 tooth of what you want on the rear. Get a half-link, correct width (1/8 or 3/32), before you start.
> ...


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## Nuck_Chorris (Jan 25, 2009)

i should have said this before when you posted this on the SS forums on MTBR , i like the whole room you have dedicated for taking photos of your bikes


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## misterdangerpants (Oct 23, 2008)

C Cow said:


> That's a beautiful ride!
> SInce you apparently don't mind tinkering and taking your time to get things right, you should "find" your magic gear ratio, and leave that tensioner off. It's worth the effort. You'll be able to get within 1 tooth of what you want on the rear. Get a half-link, correct width (1/8 or 3/32), before you start.
> 
> C Cow


Thanks a bunch!  I'd actually like to find that perfect gear ratio as I'm not so wild about the tensioner. It works quite well, but I'd rather do without it. And yes, I'm definitely going to pick up a half link too. I was very close to getting the chain to work without the tensioner in the current configuration.

So far, I'm really digging this setup. I'm actually getting more saddle time on the Ted than I do with my road bike. It's comfortable on 50-mile rides and handles the trails nicely too. it's also a perfect bike for getting my morning coffee at my local bakery/cafe. :thumbsup:


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## misterdangerpants (Oct 23, 2008)

Nuck_Chorris said:


> i should have said this before when you posted this on the SS forums on MTBR , i like the whole room you have dedicated for taking photos of your bikes


Well, that was my dining room, and my fiancee and I finally got our table (6 months after moving in here!), so no more bike modeling in that space.


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## jroden (Jun 15, 2004)

that's really nice, almost too nice for what awaits it!


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## cyklopath (Feb 24, 2007)

Great looking ride!


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## misterdangerpants (Oct 23, 2008)

*magic number*



cyklopath said:


> Great looking ride!





jroden said:


> that's really nice, almost too nice for what awaits it!


thanks! actually, it's been christened already by a rather large piece of granite. did that on my first ride (during the first build), and it was painful. it was sort of like the first parking lot ding, and now I just don't care.  

so, I finally got the magic number for the single speed gearing: 36:18. it's actually perfect. glad to dump the tensioner!!!! also, I'm ordering a 25.4 stem (same size/angle) so I can throw on some dirt drop bars. can't wait to get this thing on a CX course!

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## misterdangerpants (Oct 23, 2008)

*Fin.*

So, it's been a long journey with this bike and it's finally complete. My fiancee has dubbed this bike the "green monster" (appropriate as we live in the Boston area), so that has stuck and how I refer to it. After fidgeting (and spending too much money) with the single speed option, I decided to go with a 1x8 setup because, well, I like gears.  Also went with the WTB Dirt Drop bars for a little more stability. I like 'em! This will be my all-around, do everything bike, and I think I'll spend more saddle time in it than in any of my other bikes. It's quite fun, and handles great, so I'm anxiously awaiting my first CX race. Anyway, some final photos and the specs:

Frame: 2007 Ted Wojcik
Fork: 2007 Igleheart New England Segmented
Rims: Mavic M231, 28-hole
Hubs: Phil Wood Disc, 28-hole
Quick Release: Curve Titanium
Tires: Maxxis Hookworm 2.4 tires
Crank: Shimano Deore LX, FC-M563
Chain: SRAM
Rear Cogs: Shimano XTR CS-M900, 12-28, 8-speed
Bottom Bracket: Tange 113mm
Front Derailleur: N/A
Rear Derailleur: Shimano XTR, RD-M950, Short Cage
Shifters: Shimano Deore, SL-MT62, 7-speed (well, 8-speed for this)
Handlebars: WTB Dirt Drop Bars
Tape: Fizik Green Apple
Stem: Kalloy, 120mm, 45 degree
Headset: Chris King
Brake set: Avid BB-7
Brake levers: Cane Creek Drop V
Saddle: Sella Italia SLR
Seat Post: Kalloy
Paint: Bright Green
Size: Custom
Serial #: 031607
Place of Origin: Windham, NH & Wenham, MA

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## High Rouleur (Jul 1, 2003)

How do you like that shifter setup? I'm in the middle of a build, trying to go as cheap as possible, and I've been pondering shifter setups other than brifters. Can you shift from the hoods at all (with your thumb, I'm thinking)? 

Great looking bike, by the way. And as a Red Sox fan, I love the name!


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*she looks great*

and I like the final build as well
you may want to investigate into single ring chain guides for up front. helps against derailment


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## misterdangerpants (Oct 23, 2008)

High Rouleur said:


> How do you like that shifter setup? I'm in the middle of a build, trying to go as cheap as possible, and I've been pondering shifter setups other than brifters. Can you shift from the hoods at all (with your thumb, I'm thinking)?
> 
> Great looking bike, by the way. And as a Red Sox fan, I love the name!


I really dig the shifter setup a lot. I like the old thumb shifters and certainly appreciate having the friction option. I debated installing brifters, but thought I'd benefit from the proximity of the thumb shifter as its close to where I rest my hands most of the time. Plus, I had them hanging around, so it was a no cost option. Definitely can't reach the shifter when my hands are on the hoods. My hands are small, but I think even with meaty paws it would be an awkward position.

And yes, go Red Sox! :thumbsup:


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## misterdangerpants (Oct 23, 2008)

atpjunkie said:


> and I like the final build as well
> you may want to investigate into single ring chain guides for up front. helps against derailment


Thanks! I've actually looked into the chain guide and like the new Paul chain keeper a lot. Everything seems to stay in place, but I've only been on road rides with this setup. I imagine off-road & CX courses would jostle it around a fair amount.


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