# New Ti Cyclocross bike



## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

Since I first posted about the 2009 Fantom Cross Team Ti, I have had many PMs asking when the bike will be available. It is now on the way.

I, of course, feel this is the best CX bike available under $2000. And actually would not be a bad deal with an aluminum frame; but with a Ti frame it is a very special bike.

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fantom_cross_ti.htm

Buyers that book prior to landing get an extra discount.


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## rkj__ (Mar 21, 2007)

I know some features will make the hardcore racers cringe, but me, I like the versatility that was crammed into this bike.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

What are the chances of a frameset being made available separately?


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## bwcross (Sep 30, 2006)

bikesdirect said:


> Compare to $5,000+ IF, DeSalvo or Seven Cycles.


:thumbsup:


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## OutOfBreath (Aug 29, 2007)

The quality and construction of that thing aren't anywhere in the ballpark of a IF, DeSalvo or Seven. (let alone many, many others) All Ti bikes are not created equal. That's like saying a Surly cross check can be compared to a Zank!


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

OutOfBreath said:


> All Ti bikes are not created equal.


Nor are they priced equal, so I am not sure what your point is. . .


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## OutOfBreath (Aug 29, 2007)

The point being you shouldn't use the phrase "Compare to $5,000+ IF, DeSalvo or Seven Cycles". Just about anyone can see the "value" in the Motobecane. But to have the arrogance to to say that the Fantom Cross "compares" to a truely handmade custom, is kinda untrue. Regardless of price.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Their marketing philosophy is built on that premise…”Compared to bikes costing thousands more”…of course it’s not true but they sell a lot of bikes to people that buy into it....


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

*Definition*



OutOfBreath said:


> The point being you shouldn't use the phrase "Compare to $5,000+ IF, DeSalvo or Seven Cycles". Just about anyone can see the "value" in the Motobecane. But to have the arrogance to to say that the Fantom Cross "compares" to a truely handmade custom, is kinda untrue. Regardless of price.


"Compare" = _to examine (two or more objects, ideas, people, etc.) in order to note similarities and differences._

That is a perfectly reasonable suggestion, as there are similarities and differences. The similarities may not align with _your_ priorities, but the true arrogance is assuming that only your priorities are valid.


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## OutOfBreath (Aug 29, 2007)

My priorities have nothing to do with an untrue marketing statement. The issue I have is that statements like that are both devaluing to the bike industry as a whole and also confusing to a newbie (that like so many) use forums like this in an attempt to educate themselves. Unfortunately, not everyone has the experiences and/or knowledge to be able to distingush the differences. My point being truth in advertising: Sell your bike (or anything else) based on it's and your's (as a retailer) postive qualities. May that be Value, Performance, Service, Craftsmenship, etc.


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

Dave Hickey said:


> . . .of course it’s not true but they sell a lot of bikes to people that buy into it....


These rubes are damn annoying if you ask me. The nerve of riding a relatively inexpensive bike! :mad2:


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

Remounts must be easier when you are jumping off that soap-box 

The statement is only untrue from your perspective, which is damn shallow IMO.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

PeanutButterBreath said:


> These rubes are damn annoying if you ask me. The nerve of riding a relatively inexpensive bike! :mad2:



? twisting my words? There is absolutely nothing wrong with inexpensive bikes..I would never suggest such a thing. I was talking about the BD marketing...


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## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

Dave Hickey said:


> Their marketing philosophy is built on that premise…”Compared to bikes costing thousands more”…of course it’s not true but they sell a lot of bikes to people that buy into it....


Dave

you should read the posts of buyers of the Fly Team Ti - many have riden and/or owned other Ti bikes costs as much as $3000 more -- and I have not seen anyone yet say that the Fly Team Ti does not compete with a $5000 Litespeed.

you really have to see and ride the Ti Motobecanes to appreciate them

It will take us 3 years to get that word completely out thru customer experiences and magazine reveiws. 

However, it will happen. I am determined to explore how Ti is a great option in frame material that is largely overlooked due to price.

So - be my guest compare this CX bike to any CX bike costing $4500 to $5500.

here is a good place to start
http://www.litespeed.com/bikes/2008/cx.aspx

In a world where getting a really nice Ti frame costs over $2000 from most sources; I just think there is more for a really nice Ti bike at under $2000.

Most customers like having choices


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

yawn.....Mike, your original post is nothing but spam.....If people want to know about your products, they can go to your website.... This post is not a free exchange of ideas as you like to say, this is BD selling bikes....

Some of your posts are truely informational and enjoyable.. but you always cross the line when you post links to sell your product....


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

Dave Hickey said:


> ? twisting my words? There is absolutely nothing wrong with inexpensive bikes..I would never suggest such a thing. I was talking about the BD marketing...


You seemed to be indicating that it can not be true that an inexpensive bike compares favorably to an expensive one.

You also seemed to be suggesting that to believe otherwise is to "buy into" marketing.

I submit that someone could compare a Motobecane to the other suggested bikes and make an intelligent choice to buy the Motobecane based on personal priorities and circumstances.


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## OutOfBreath (Aug 29, 2007)

No actually remounts are easier because of my lightened conscience due to the fact that I support my LBS and I am not constantly scouring the web for the best deal. My opinion on this is based on what is good for the bicycle industry and the sport as a whole. Enjoyment based on not only the bicycle and the sum of it's parts. But on education, customer service, and support in your community of the sport we all love.

While mail order may be able to save you some $$$, it's not good for the cycling community. When $$$ gets diverted away from local retailers, less gets put back into cycling community. Less junior development programs, less local races, less team support. 

FYI: I am not currently involved in the bike industry in any capacity. I am just a lover of the sport and would like to spread that love to as many people as possible. In my opinion, this can only be done with the support of the community.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Dave Hickey said:


> yawn.....Mike, your original post is nothing but spam.....If people want to know about your products, they can go to your website.... This post is not a free exchange of ideas as you like to say, this is BD selling bikes....
> 
> Some of your posts are truely informational and enjoyable.. but you always cross the line when you post links to sell your product....


Dude, give it a rest. This isn't your damn board. I believe BD actually sponsors a forum. The last time he posted the links for the Christmas deals,people were all over it. You're telling me people didn't want to see the links to $398 carbon wheelsets?

Seriously, if BD bothers you that much, why click on their posts? It's your choice to click on the thread.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

OutOfBreath said:


> No actually remounts are easier because of my lightened conscience due to the fact that I support my LBS and I am not constantly scouring the web for the best deal. My opinion on this is based on what is good for the bicycle industry and the sport as a whole. Enjoyment based on not only the bicycle and the sum of it's parts. But on education, customer service, and support in your community of the sport we all love.
> 
> While mail order may be able to save you some $$$, it's not good for the cycling community. When $$$ gets diverted away from local retailers, less gets put back into cycling community. Less junior development programs, less local races, less team support.
> 
> FYI: I am not currently involved in the bike industry in any capacity. I am just a lover of the sport and would like to spread that love to as many people as possible. In my opinion, this can only be done with the support of the community.


Inexpensive bikes and competition are not good for the industry or the sport?

Whatever. If a person can't afford the $3000 bike at the LBS, maybe they won't buy a bike at all. Or, they might see the $1,000 bike at BD and decide they can afford to get into the sport after all.

Under the first scenario, the sport gets nothing and the LBS gets nothing. Under the second scenario, the sport gets a new member and the LBS gets the repair work.

You tell me what's better for the industry and for the sport now.


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

OutOfBreath said:


> FYI: I am not currently involved in the bike industry in any capacity.


Decided to devote your time to holding forth on this vital topic from the free speech kiosk at the airport?

I suspect that the number of people who will read Mike's pitch and buy a Motobecane instead of the Seven that they were previously giving serious thought to buying is roughly zero.


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## OutOfBreath (Aug 29, 2007)

Dave Hickey said:


> yawn.....Mike, your original post is nothing but spam.....If people want to know about your products, they can go to your website.... This post is not a free exchange of ideas as you like to say, this is BD selling bikes....
> 
> Some of your posts are truely informational and enjoyable.. but you always cross the line when you post links to sell your product....


This is SPAM. Let see a moderator mark threads like these as SPAM when they first pop up!


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

PeanutButterBreath said:


> Decided to devote your time to holding forth on this vital topic from the free speech kiosk at the airport?
> 
> I suspect that the number of people who will read Mike's pitch and buy a Motobecane instead of the Seven that they were previously giving serious thought to buying is roughly zero.


Exactly.


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

OutOfBreath said:


> This is SPAM. Let see a moderator mark threads like these as SPAM when they first pop up!


Dude, Dave Hickey _is_ a moderator AFAIK. Lets see people with 35 posts worth of contribution to these boards hold off on telling others what they can and can't discuss.


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## OutOfBreath (Aug 29, 2007)

FondriestFan said:


> Inexpensive bikes and competition are not good for the industry or the sport?
> 
> Whatever. If a person can't afford the $3000 bike at the LBS, maybe they won't buy a bike at all. Or, they might see the $1,000 bike at BD and decide they can afford to get into the sport after all.
> 
> ...


The point being that buying that bike vs. a $1500 Kona, Redline, Surly, whatever is not going to make you a better racer. Why not let the local guy make $500? The more that happens the stronger the race community will be in your area.

Under this scenario, the newbie gets an affordable bike, it grows your local economy, the LBS has more $$$ to put into the racing community, and the newbie gets better service because of the relationship with the LBS.


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## OutOfBreath (Aug 29, 2007)

PeanutButterBreath said:


> Decided to devote your time to holding forth on this vital topic from the free speech kiosk at the airport?
> 
> I suspect that the number of people who will read Mike's pitch and buy a Motobecane instead of the Seven that they were previously giving serious thought to buying is roughly zero.


Actually, I was in the industry for 12 years, on both the wholesale and retail side. Now that this has changed, I put my money where my mouth is.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

OutOfBreath said:


> The point being that buying that bike vs. a $1500 Kona, Redline, Surly, whatever is not going to make you a better racer. Why not let the local guy make $500? The more that happens the stronger the race community will be in your area.
> 
> Under this scenario, the newbie gets an affordable bike, it grows your local economy, the LBS has more $$$ to put into the racing community, and the newbie gets better service because of the relationship with the LBS.


Wait, so he should get a bike that's not as nice just so he can pad the profits of the local bike shop? Why should the local guy get the extra $500 when the customer can get a nicer bike for the money? Hey, if you want to compete in the industry, provide a product and a service that people want and that's competitive on price and quality. I bought my Moots at my LBS because they offered a great deal, with great support. I bought the $400 Vuelta wheels from BD because the price can't be matched. So what?

First, bike shop profits aren't necessarily correlated to a better local racing scene. And a local racing scene isn't necessarily correlated with a strong cycling community. Most people don't race. If BD gets people into a very nice bike for a reasonable sum of money, more power to them.


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

*Whoopty freakin' doo*



OutOfBreath said:


> Actually, I was in the industry for 12 years, on both the wholesale and retail side. Now that this has changed, I put my money where my mouth is.




Guess what? Low cost imports have been around a lot longer than 12 years. Guess what else? The custom frame market is still here!


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## OutOfBreath (Aug 29, 2007)

PeanutButterBreath said:


> Dude, Dave Hickey _is_ a moderator AFAIK. Lets see people with 35 posts worth of contribution to these boards hold off on telling others what they can and can't discuss.


You're doing exactly what you are accusing me of. Alienating a segment of the market. Me for speaking out against mail order and in what my opinion are bad business practices, you for calling out people that are new th the forum.

I joined this forum last year as a way to feed my hunger for cross between races, training, etc. Now that some users personally attack others, I am beginning to rethink things. The fact that I have only 35 posts has nothing to do with the experience I may have on certain topics.


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## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

PeanutButterBreath said:


> Guess what? Low cost imports have been around a lot longer than 12 years. Guess what else? The custom frame market is still here!



Very good point!
And I do not want or expect the custom frame market to dry up.
I want more riders on higher level equipment and I would especially like to see more cyclists get to try out Ti bikes.

My feeling is aluminum and carbon fiber have been over marketed in the last few years;
and high grade steel and Ti have been under represented in the last few years.

Would be really nice if all serious cyclists got to try out owning some of each.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

OutOfBreath said:


> This is SPAM. Let see a moderator mark threads like these as SPAM when they first pop up!




it's totally spam... dude posted to get these bikes ordered/sold, thinly disguised as a post to inform the cx masses on its availability. just like the disc brake bike post. and numerous others

btw, pretty sure mods can't mod all boards


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

FatTireFred said:


> btw, pretty sure mods can't mod all boards


correct....I can mod fixed and retro only..There are two super mods that can mod every board but the rest of us are limited to certain boards


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

You are right. Your quixotic vendetta against mail-order is an important public service and very relevant to cross races, training etc.

Suggesting that new or infrequent contributors should not call for the censorship of others was an un-called for personal attack.


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

FatTireFred said:


> thinly disguised as a post to inform the cx masses on its availability.


I don't see any attempt to disguise anything. The guy uses his business name as his handle, FFS.


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

So, I'm curious, OutOf Breath-

I should buy a bike by kona, that's made in taiwan and designed in Canada to support my local bike shop? 

I should spend more for lesser quality parts because I need to support some mechanic who doesn't actually want to help me in the first place?

The same local bike shop that never stocks any parts other than cheap kalloy stems and wire bead tires? 

The same bike shop that tells me, "well, we could order it for you and have it here in a week."

Or should I be supporting the local bike shop that charges double the online price for parts AND needs a week to install a headset?

Bikeshops aren't a charity, they're a business. And most of them are extremely poorly run businesses. The second someone comes up with a headset that installs as easy as an outboard bearing bottom bracket, I'll never need a bike shop again. I won't be sad.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

PeanutButterBreath said:


> I don't see any attempt to disguise anything. The guy uses his business name as his handle, FFS.




you like to argue for the sake of arguing, don't you?


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## threesportsinone (Mar 27, 2007)

buck-50 said:


> So, I'm curious, OutOf Breath-
> 
> I should buy a bike by kona, that's made in taiwan and designed in Canada to support my local bike shop?
> 
> ...


I know you addressed OutOfBreath, but I'll answer: you should support Crono.


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

threesportsinone said:


> I know you addressed OutOfBreath, but I'll answer: you should support Crono.


Oh believe me, I do. They are the exception that makes everyone else look bad by comparison.


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

FatTireFred said:


> you like to argue for the sake of arguing, don't you?


Second pointless, kick-in-the-head obvious and utterly off-topic thread hijack from you in this dicussion. :thumbsup:


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

PeanutButterBreath said:


> Second pointless, kick-in-the-head obvious and utterly off-topic thread hijack from you in this dicussion. :thumbsup:




I knew you would reply with something smart-alecky... there's three. deal with it


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

*More snark comin' at ya.*



FatTireFred said:


> I knew you would reply with something smart-alecky... there's three. deal with it


Thats a trifecta of superlative insight :thumbsup:


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

PeanutButterBreath said:


> Thats a trifecta of superlative insight :thumbsup:




he writes, as if his continued drivel (and own utterly off-topic thread hijack) contributes to the discussion... what's four make?


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

FatTireFred said:


> he writes, as if his continued drivel (and own utterly off-topic thread hijack) contributes to the discussion... what's four make?


Proof that you are a frustrated axe-grinder? I'll let you have the last word -- if you dare.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

PeanutButterBreath said:


> Proof that you are a frustrated axe-grinder? I'll let you have the last word -- if you dare.




weak... you can do better. come on, you always get the last word


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

Mike from bikes direct is direct indeed. More power to him for bringing cheaper options to the masses but he is advertising for profit on these forums. If he wants to advertise he should go spend advertising dollars like all the other manufacturers. Is it okay if Salsa start posting there latest lineups as thread starters? Why not anyone that sponsors a forum. If Mike wants to reply to a thread with a kink to his stuff, then thats cool, but starting a thread to advertise his own product is not that cool on the coolness scale IMHO. Self phishing?
From the forum guidelines. Unacceptable posts #3The message is an advertisement or spam. http://www.roadbikereview.com/guidelinescrx.aspx


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## beaker (Feb 2, 2005)

*bars are narrow*

Spam or not, seems interesting. Whatever, there was a post about this a few months back where he was looking for some feedback, so I guess i don't mind the "follow up."

One note, the bar spec seems really narrow. Most folks seem to use the same size or wider as their road bike. I would ride a 61 in the Moto, but it only comes with a 42cm wide bar. I'm normally using a 44 on my road bike and a 46 on cross and fixie/ss bikes.


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## MisterC (May 26, 2007)

I like Bikes Direct, I really do and I love the fact that they are trying to make ti frames in the realm of possibility while I am young. If I could afford that bike I would buy it but student loans come first, for now.

But, I can see where the marketing makes you think you are getting a $5000 for $1700. Go look at raquetball raquets at Dick's for the same effect. They are $100 but the packaging says they are marked down from, like, $400 or something ridiculous, but they will always be $100.

Anyway, so Dave, if I bust your chops here will you punish me over in the fixed forum?


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## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

Politics and bs aside I dont have a problem with BD as I was able to get a very good bike with top notch components for the most part for a reasonable price. As a consumer, value trumps all. Buy a name brand bike with 105/ultegra for $3500 or DA for $1500 less online? Why in Gods green earth would the "average" consumer choose the former? I understand the traditionalist shunning the online bike industry but I fail to see how this will destroy the LBS. If anything it should make the LBS improve there business acumen and strive to make a loyal customer when one of these evil online bike buyers comes in for service/upgrades lol. I see it as a symbiotic relationship where both can prosper. 

If treated right the LBS will have a customer for life and Im sure the customers next bike will be bought from them. Imho people buying helmets, computers, clothing, components etc from online stores hurts the LBS more than online bike purchase. Buy a bike online the LBS will make money on fitting, upgrading components, overhaul and possibly helmets etc. Buy everything online and that limits the LBS overall value as a one stop shop. I see it as not so much companies like BD being a problem but the internet as a whole making shopping easier and cheaper for the consumer that the LBS may evolve into just a service/tune shop. 

Online bike stores will put alot of people in bikes which in turn will make the LBS money when they go in for service and upgrades etc. Excellent oportunity for the LBS to sell them and make a loyal customer. Consumer wins. I, however, would like to see a better effort to educate the virgin bike customer on bike fit etc on the websites. I understand that this may make the customer decide to go to an LBS because its too involving but it would be in the consumers interest which is counterproductive to business sometimes unfortunately. 

Ive read some posts here about the overpriced Italian bikes etc. I doubt BD and other online stores will make the big names drop there prices but it will get the average joe, college student etc get into a nice bike and experience DA, Record on cf/ti frames etc that they wouldnt be able to experience from any of the big names because of there high prices. Inevitably the high end/status buyer will not like this but thats human nature.

There are too many aspects to this discussion, both pro and con on both sides. Unfortunately no real solution exists that would please everyone. Sometimes you just have to roll with it and adapt. The internet and online buying aint going anywhere anytime soon.


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## 20sMotoSpirit (May 27, 2007)

Snakebitten said:


> Politics and bs aside I dont have a problem with BD as I was able to get a very good bike with top notch components for the most part for a reasonable price. As a consumer, value trumps all. Buy a name brand bike with 105/ultegra for $3500 or DA for $1500 less online? Why in Gods green earth would the "average" consumer choose the former? I understand the traditionalist shunning the online bike industry but I fail to see how this will destroy the LBS. If anything it should make the LBS improve there business acumen and strive to make a loyal customer when one of these evil online bike buyers comes in for service/upgrades lol. I see it as a symbiotic relationship where both can prosper.
> 
> If treated right the LBS will have a customer for life and Im sure the customers next bike will be bought from them. Imho people buying helmets, computers, clothing, components etc from online stores hurts the LBS more than online bike purchase. Buy a bike online the LBS will make money on fitting, upgrading components, overhaul and possibly helmets etc. Buy everything online and that limits the LBS overall value as a one stop shop. I see it as not so much companies like BD being a problem but the internet as a whole making shopping easier and cheaper for the consumer that the LBS may evolve into just a service/tune shop.
> 
> ...



To be perfectly honest, I WORK!!!! In a bike shop and I still bought a bike here, The component deals you can get here are way better price point than even the employee purchase price on bike at the same level. I did swap the frame, but that was because of a sweet deal!

Also, just to mention. These deals are getting better by the day, since the newer 09' Trek and specialized models are rolling out with a 10% price increase and a drastic drop in components.


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## hachiko (Sep 1, 2008)

Clearly, this is a BD ad, but it's also general information about Motobecane bikes, which is what this sub forum is dedicated to. 

If someone working at a bike shop went onto the trek forum and posted about their new lineup, no one would be calling foul, and fairly too since the person posting wouldn't be doing it for their profit. Unfortunately or fortunately for Mike, he is the only real source on new stuff from Motobecane and the other BD brands. 

If he isn't allowed to post here about new or future offerings, this forum will be devoid of any industry information about the brand, which really isn't that good of a thing and only serves to hurt potential customers. It also penalizes mike unduly, who does pay for ad space on this website I believe. 

Enough of my defense of mike, I don't think that they have or deserve any halos, in fact, 
I don't really like the BD marketing Technique, and in reality it is probably hurting them as much as it is helping them. 

BD bikes are so stigmatized now days that that alone turns some people off of them. 

The whole inflated MSRP is incredibly misleading. EX the bike I just bought from them (fantom CX) lists it's MSRP at $1500. How can they justify that? I can get a 105 / ultegra cross bike from Fuji for $1050 Sure, that compares closer to the Fantom Cross / Pro, but even so they're still comparing the Cross to a $1500 bike, and at $1500 you can easily get a full ultegra or dura ace kit with very good name components aside from the main drive train. 

I'm not sure why they have to result to this incredibly misleading tactic. It's just short of blatantly lying. The irony of the whole thing is that their prices ARE better than bike shop prices, by a pretty large margin. Usually about $200-$500, but often more. Are they really afraid they would lose a significant amount of business because their prices are "only" $200-$500 better? 

I am no marketing expert, but it's my opinion that a degree of honesty and/or transparency can do great things for a company. 

Anyhow, enough of my rant, and sorry to post such a post as #2.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Who picked out the handlebar sizing for that bike?

40cm bars on a 54 cm frame? Folks, this is a cross bike. Put some 44s on there at that size.


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## frank828 (Oct 13, 2007)

hachiko said:


> The whole inflated MSRP is incredibly misleading. EX the bike I just bought from them (fantom CX) lists it's MSRP at $1500. How can they justify that? I can get a 105 / ultegra cross bike from Fuji for $1050 Sure, that compares closer to the Fantom Cross / Pro, but even so they're still comparing the Cross to a $1500 bike, and at $1500 you can easily get a full ultegra or dura ace kit with very good name components aside from the main drive train.


wonderin...what was the msrp of that fuji? is that 1050 a sale price?


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## Axe (Sep 21, 2004)

frank828 said:


> wonderin...what was the msrp of that fuji? is that 1050 a sale price?


Roubaix Pro(105/ultegra) - MSRP $1600

I think BD's comparison/MSRP is quite valid. I wish they did not have spelling mistakes and cheese marketing language, but it is easy to not pay attention.


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## 20sMotoSpirit (May 27, 2007)

Axe said:


> Roubaix Pro(105/ultegra) - MSRP $1600
> 
> I think BD's comparison/MSRP is quite valid. I wish they did not have spelling mistakes and cheese marketing language, but it is easy to not pay attention.


Unless you are quoting the AL frame you are WAY off!

Roubaix Pro is 4K+


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## hachiko (Sep 1, 2008)

frank828 said:


> wonderin...what was the msrp of that fuji? is that 1050 a sale price?


No it wasn't a sale price, they do tend to sell discounted off of msrp, and this was the 08 price at the end of the 08 cycle. Don't know when they'll get 09's in but 09 is 1,450 msrp. 

And I wasn't talking about the Roubaix either, as that was clearly not the line I was talking about. 

The point is, the 'msrp' motobecane prices are excessively inflated, and comparing them to bikes that are clearly out of the leauge of their msrp just adds to the confusion / deceptiveness. 

In all fairness it's not the case with all their bikes. The knight and vent noir do look like they have closer to natural msrp values. But claiming the fantom cx has a msrp of 1600 is an example of them being incredibly deceptive.


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## aaronis31337 (Apr 7, 2008)

Dude, you're SO wrong. I have the TI road bike from BD, and it's a better design than something like moots. The welding is on par with everything I've seen out there.


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## Axe (Sep 21, 2004)

hachiko said:


> And I wasn't talking about the Roubaix either, as that was clearly not the line I was talking about.
> 
> The point is, the 'msrp' motobecane prices are excessively inflated, and comparing them to bikes that are clearly out of the leauge of their msrp just adds to the confusion / deceptiveness.
> 
> In all fairness it's not the case with all their bikes. The knight and vent noir do look like they have closer to natural msrp values. But claiming the fantom cx has a msrp of 1600 is an example of them being incredibly deceptive.


No they are not deceptive or misleading. You did not give an example where their MSRP comparison with a bike of a similar component level is not valid.

Please, we are all ears - provide us an example of a bike with same components with MSRP that is out of that range.


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## aaronis31337 (Apr 7, 2008)

+1. I agree totally.


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## BlakeG (Feb 25, 2008)

So I have a basic question -- I am looking at getting one of these for commuting and trying to keep up with friends on longish rides. I am 6' tall, wear a 32" inseam. Never really rode a road bike before, so I am not too familiar with the geometry. I ride a large Spesh Stumpjumper FSR, so that is what I am familiar with. I am thinking a 56, but not sure if a 58 would be better -- the only road bike I have ever been on was a 58, and it was not adjusted for me at all -- I understand that most of the time a cross bike tends to be a bit smaller than a regular road bike?

Sorry about the beginner question, but have been wanting to jump into the road bike pool for awhile and this seems like a decent place to start.

Thanks,

Blake


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## Axe (Sep 21, 2004)

bikesdirect said:


> you should read the posts of buyers of the Fly Team Ti - many have riden and/or owned other Ti bikes costs as much as $3000 more -- and I have not seen anyone yet say that the Fly Team Ti does not compete with a $5000 Litespeed.


Damn straight. Tubeset on Fly Ti is better and welds are just as good. Not as good as Moots or Seven, but at this level it does not make any functional or aesthetic difference whatsoever.


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## zachhandler (Nov 1, 2008)

*Just got my Ti Cross bike*

Just a quick early review here. I have had 3 rides on my fantom cross team. Assembly was no problem. Required a few turns of a barrel adjuster, fine tuning the brake tension, and it was dialed in. Wheels were true, everything else seems installed correctly. I'm thrilled with the bike so far. The bike is beautiful. looks exactly the same as the glamour shots on the web site. The frame is really supple, in a good way. I know some people have said that the aluminum fantom cross frame is very stiff and tough on the tush. This is not the case with this bike. On single track and broken asphalt it is forgiving. The bike feels light underneath me and accelerates well. I have the size 54. I am 5'11", but prefer a small bike. I chose the frame size because it has a 55cm top tube, which is the same length as other bikes i've loved. The bike fits just as I expected. the weight, just crudely standing on a bathroom scale, appears to be 19 pounds with shimano 520 pedals installed. I have size 11 feet and have not had toe overlap issues.

I will answer any specific questions about the bike anybody has.

I will not participate in a discussion about the pros and cons of mail order bikes.

Ride on!


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## scorpion59 (Nov 2, 2008)

*Motobecane Fantom Team Cross Ti*

I bought this bike a few weeks ago and have ridden the crap out of it in WV back roads through every kind of marginal skinny tire muddy and rocky ascents and descents. Even raced it today. The frame is super stiff and the welds are sweet. This is the second bike I bought from BikesDirect. The first being the Motobecane Messenger which is my favorite bike to tool around. Sure they take a lot of tweaking out of the box and if you are shy about the mechanics then go for the LBS where you pay tax markups and shipping markups.
Bikes owned and ridden hard:
Schwinn Varsity
Trek 1000
Trek1500 MTB
Fisher Supercaliber with original Manitou fork
Specialized Allez Pro Steel
Klein Mantra Comp
Trek 5200 Carbon
Bianchi SOK 29R SS


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