# Traditional vs. Sloping geometry?



## veloci1

ok!! i have a 2008 EP Ale Jet 52 S and a 2008 Navigator Edition Dream HX 55 tradional. i love the way the Ep rides and does everything excellently. I got the Dream HX last summer and i like the bike so much, that my EP has been sitting in the garage for almost 7 moths. the Dream HX has to be one of the best bikes i've ridden. it is not the lightest, but, you cannot tell once you are riding it.

so, i need some feedback from people that have traditional and sloping geometry. i can only assume that the reason i ride the Dream HX all the time is becaause the traditional geometry must fit me better. keep in mind that i have been professionally fitted on both bikes by the same person.

i am asking becasue i have been thinking about selling the EP and getting a traditional geometry EP. i know i will never find another Ale Jet, but, i am sure i will be able to get some $ for my sloping EP (being 100% made in Italy) in order to get the traditional EP.

let me know.


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## mtbbmet

Ooh, we have a 57 Ep Jet in stock. Too bad.


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## Shane Winn

veloci1 said:


> ok!! i have a 2008 EP Ale Jet 52 S and a 2008 Navigator Edition Dream HX 55 tradional. i love the way the Ep rides and does everything excellently. I got the Dream HX last summer and i like the bike so much, that my EP has been sitting in the garage for almost 7 moths. the Dream HX has to be one of the best bikes i've ridden. it is not the lightest, but, you cannot tell once you are riding it.
> 
> so, i need some feedback from people that have traditional and sloping geometry. i can only assume that the reason i ride the Dream HX all the time is becaause the traditional geometry must fit me better. keep in mind that i have been professionally fitted on both bikes by the same person.
> 
> i am asking becasue i have been thinking about selling the EP and getting a traditional geometry EP. i know i will never find another Ale Jet, but, i am sure i will be able to get some $ for my sloping EP (being 100% made in Italy) in order to get the traditional EP.
> 
> let me know.



Here's some feedback for you. Probably what you're finding is a fit issue. Colnago builds it's traditional gemoetry frames in one-centimeter increments, hence your ability to purchase a 55cm Dream. Your Extreme Power is a 52s, which in the wolrd of Colnago is equivalent to a 56cm traditional. In other words, your Dream is effectively a cm smaller than your EP. 

This alone should account for a different ride and feel as you've got a shorter top tube on your Dream than the effective top tube on your EP. I'm sure both frames fit you, but this difference probably accounts for your finding a preference between the two.

Beyond that, the EP and the Dream HX are two very different framesets. The Dream is not quite as vertically stiff a ride on the rear end as the EP, and the EP being sloping geometry only further enhances the stiffness. 

If I were you, I'd be looking for a 55cm C50 ASAP, as the C50 is no longer being produced and the only place on the planet where 2010 C50s were shipped is the U.S. It's a stunning piece of work.


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## veloci1

Shane Winn,

do you think a Traditional EP 55 cm will do the job? do you mentionn the C50 becasue of comfort?

let me know. you make a lot of sense.


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## Shane Winn

Well, the Extreme Power isn't produced any longer, however there are certainly dealers in the US that still have them...I bet R&A Cycles might have one. The C50 is a bit more vertically compliant than the EP, perhaps a bit closer to the ride you're currently enjoying so much. The C50 is still my favorite frameset, and I own and ride that, an Extreme C, an EPS and a CX1. Any are great choices, but the C50's a classic for all the right reasons. What is your weight?


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## veloci1

5'11" and 185 lbs during winter and spring. summer i go dwon to about 178 lbs.


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## fabsroman

Shane Winn said:


> Here's some feedback for you. Probably what you're finding is a fit issue. Colnago builds it's traditional gemoetry frames in one-centimeter increments, hence your ability to purchase a 55cm Dream. Your Extreme Power is a 52s, which in the wolrd of Colnago is equivalent to a 56cm traditional. In other words, your Dream is effectively a cm smaller than your EP.
> 
> This alone should account for a different ride and feel as you've got a shorter top tube on your Dream than the effective top tube on your EP. I'm sure both frames fit you, but this difference probably accounts for your finding a preference between the two.
> 
> Beyond that, the EP and the Dream HX are two very different framesets. The Dream is not quite as vertically stiff a ride on the rear end as the EP, and the EP being sloping geometry only further enhances the stiffness.
> 
> If I were you, I'd be looking for a 55cm C50 ASAP, as the C50 is no longer being produced and the only place on the planet where 2010 C50s were shipped is the U.S. It's a stunning piece of work.


I was going to say the same thing, and didn't think anybody else would catch the difference. I was riding a 50s Cristallo and 50s Arte, but the reach seemed to be just a tad long. So, I went with a 53 traditional C50 to shorten the top tube by 0.5cm. I have hardly ridden the C50 so far because of health/work reasons, but when I ride it, it just feels right. Hard to believe that a 1/2 cm makes that much of a difference. Might go with 1 cm shorter stems on the Cristallo and Arte, but something tells me that will be too short.


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## Shane Winn

C50 would be an excellent choice for you, and I'll bet you the 55cm would be the right one.


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## The_Kraken

*What Ernesto might say*

If you can take a look at the following link from what was the 2008 colnago.com website 
http://www.colnagonews.com/en/mycolnago/index.php, You will see in the FAQ section the reply to the question: What is the difference between Sloping and Traditional Frame sizes?

The answer from Colnago is "Frames using traditional sizes are considered the best by Ernesto Colnago. In fact, sloping sizes were born from , Mountain Bikes where all the sizes were covered with 4 standard sizes. Personally sloping sizes are exclusively for commercial reasons."

Interesting to think about. And I will agree with that philosophy. But only to a certain point. For some people, their physiology just doesn't afford them the ability to be on traditional sized geometry. If you can be on trad. geometry, however, I agree with Ernesto that the fit is considered best and that the handling characteristic is a bit better.

Aesthetics also plays a role. Some people want the race "look" of the sloping geometry because of seat post exposure. Perhaps the trad. geometry when there isn't much seat post showing isn't that pleasing to the eye. As for what we sell, I would say about 3/4 is traditional.


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## fabsroman

The_Kraken said:


> If you can take a look at the following link from what was the 2008 colnago.com website
> http://www.colnagonews.com/en/mycolnago/index.php, You will see in the FAQ section the reply to the question: What is the difference between Sloping and Traditional Frame sizes?
> 
> The answer from Colnago is "Frames using traditional sizes are considered the best by Ernesto Colnago. In fact, sloping sizes were born from , Mountain Bikes where all the sizes were covered with 4 standard sizes. Personally sloping sizes are exclusively for commercial reasons."
> 
> Interesting to think about. And I will agree with that philosophy. But only to a certain point. For some people, their physiology just doesn't afford them the ability to be on traditional sized geometry. If you can be on trad. geometry, however, I agree with Ernesto that the fit is considered best and that the handling characteristic is a bit better.
> 
> Aesthetics also plays a role. Some people want the race "look" of the sloping geometry because of seat post exposure. Perhaps the trad. geometry when there isn't much seat post showing isn't that pleasing to the eye. As for what we sell, I would say about 3/4 is traditional.


You have to wonder how people actually rode bikes 20 or so years ago when traditional was pretty much all there was. I guess the short legged, long torso people were SOL. LOL

Some of the sloping frames, not Colnagos, are just ridiculous in the amount of slope.


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## veloci1

thank for all the feedback. i am positive now that what i need is a 56 traditional EP or C50. i am leaning more towrds the Ep because i think i will be happier with it.

now, i have found a couple on e-bay and in europe stores, but, they are 54 cm. do you guys think that a 54 cm toptube and a 120 mm stem will be a good fit.
i've read how colnagos are fitted with longer stems and smaller frame for best performance, just like in my case with the EP and Dream HX.

any thoughts?


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## fabsroman

veloci1 said:


> thank for all the feedback. i am positive now that what i need is a 56 traditional EP or C50. i am leaning more towrds the Ep because i think i will be happier with it.
> 
> now, i have found a couple on e-bay and in europe stores, but, they are 54 cm. do you guys think that a 54 cm toptube and a 120 mm stem will be a good fit.
> i've read how colnagos are fitted with longer stems and smaller frame for best performance, just like in my case with the EP and Dream HX.
> 
> any thoughts?


Why would you need a 56 traditional? That would be the same effective top tube measurement as thhe 52 sloping.

I run an 11cm stem on both my 50 sloping and 53 traditional frames. I don't think a 12cm stem would be unheard of and I would even go to a 13cm stem if need be. I even thought about getting a 48 sloping and using a 12cm stem, but then thought about how many spacers I would need under the stem to get the bars to the right height and decided on the 50 sloping instead.


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## JeremyP

Hey, I run a 130mm -17 stem on a 53. Looks just right, could possibly put a 140mm on there.


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## iyeoh

Heck, I ride 51 cm traditional and my young-teenaged son rides 49 cm traditional frames with 13 cm stems.

The short leg long torso people of this world just learned to deal with the geometry. For decades, I've been told that Colnagos are ill suited for me because of the shorter top tubes, and I've stuck out my middle finger.

There you go, as I've always suspected, traditional geometry does handle better than sloping geometry.

*WHY* did Colnago stop making traditional frames under 52 cm ??


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## veloci1

i am sure that either a 55 or 56 T will do. the bigger question will be, is 54 cm pushing it a little?

i am trying to find a frame as we speak. so, we will see.


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## Clevor

Shane Winn said:


> If I were you, I'd be looking for a 55cm C50 ASAP, as the C50 is no longer being produced and the only place on the planet where 2010 C50s were shipped is the U.S. It's a stunning piece of work.


I think you are confused with Japan. The C50 is no longer seen on the Colnago America web site. The Colnago Japan web site still lists them and only in 3-4 of the Racer Man paint schemes. It seems the last batch of C50s were painted in this scheme and are only being offered in Japan.


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## corky

The_Kraken said:


> What is the difference between Sloping and Traditional Frame sizes?
> 
> The answer from Colnago is "Frames using traditional sizes are considered the best by Ernesto Colnago. In fact, sloping sizes were born from , Mountain Bikes where all the sizes were covered with 4 standard sizes. Personally sloping sizes are exclusively for commercial reasons."


I think this is old...... for some time now 'Ol Ernesto only shows pics in ads and on his site of slopers........ that's where the wonga lies (current fashion).


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## varian72

There is lies the rub(no pub intended). If I even wanted a trad. EPS, I'd have to custom order it forcing more cash onto an already expensive frame. So, I am forced to get a 48s. I need the length of the top tube a 52T has but I just want more stand over.


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## iyeoh

That's the point. Why isn't there a 49, 50 and 51 cm traditional geometry EPS when there are those sizes in the MXL??

More cost saving Taiwanese ideas at play? 

I thought Colnago prides itself in being able to supply a gazillion sizes, except those who need small frames are left out in the cold?

Pay us more money for a custom?


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## BikeNerd2453

corky said:


> I think this is old...... for some time now 'Ol Ernesto only shows pics in ads and on his site of slopers........ that's where the wonga lies (current fashion).


Mr. Colnago sized me onto a sloping frame a while back, best bike I've ever ridden. Though I did shorten up the stem a bit from the 140mm he suggested...


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## Karbon Kev

Geez those colour schemes are gorgeous on the C50 and the GEO on the EPS is just beautiful ..... those lucky japanese eh?


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## veloci1

BTW, D all 2007 and on C50's use a 28 mm satpost? are there any 27.2?

i am about to get a frame and the shop keeps on telling me that the seatpost on this old stock but, new 2008 frame uses a 27.2.


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## fabsroman

veloci1 said:


> BTW, D all 2007 and on C50's use a 28 mm satpost? are there any 27.2?
> 
> i am about to get a frame and the shop keeps on telling me that the seatpost on this old stock but, new 2008 frame uses a 27.2.


Are you talking abbout a C50? Mine was a 2008 and it uses a 28.0. I am using the 27.2 Campy seatpost in it with a spacer from USE.


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## veloci1

yes, the c50. i just want to make sure this is not some kind of odd ball frame. i am going to ask the bike shop to use calipers to measure the seat tube opening.


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## Karbon Kev

I've been advised a sloping geometry C50 would fit me better (long torso, shorter leges) than a trad. geom one. Anyone got any pics of sloping C50? How much do they slope? Not ridiculously so like some brands, hopefully ...


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## Karbon Kev

That's ok fabsroman, I shall have to search out a pic somewhere, thanks ..... I gotta say if the fit is ok then I will be going for a trad geom. C50. Don't like the sound of a sloping, must admit .......


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## fabsroman

Karbon Kev said:


> I've been advised a sloping geometry C50 would fit me better (long torso, shorter leges) than a trad. geom one. Anyone got any pics of sloping C50? How much do they slope? Not ridiculously so like some brands, hopefully ...


None of the sloping Colnagos slope as insanely as other brands. The sloping frames, especially the lugged ones, are pretty much sloping at the same angle. So, if you can find a sloping Extreme C, Extreme Power, or EPS in your size, then that will essentially be the same amount of slope in the C50. Same thing applies for a sloping E1 or Cristallo. They essentially have the same dimensions as the sloping lugged frames.

I have a traditional 53cm C50 or I would post a picture for you.


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