# Motobecane Vent Noir



## dbleyepatches (Jun 22, 2011)

I was looking at bikesdirect.com and it looks like I can get far more bike for my money there than anywhere else. I am looking at the Motobecane Vent Noir which has Tiagra components mainly and is far better equiped than the Giants (all that I can find locally) that I saw at the, not so local, LBS. The Motobecane is $699 shipped to my door and the Giant was $700 plus tax. Is there anything wrong with this bike?

I have read the posts about fit and I understand that it is crucial. If the frame gives 1-2 inches on stand over clearance, can the rest of the bike be adjusted? 

Sorry for all of the questions. I am a research guy and hate it when I throw my money away!


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## Iam918 (May 13, 2011)

Check the _Motobecane - Mercier_ forum under Manufacturer. You'll find a thread or two on the Vent Noir and will probably have better response for your questions.

That said, There's really nothing wrong w/ a BD bike that I've seen or read up to now YMMV. I've got a Motobecane Fantom Cross PRO which I picked up a few weeks ago. I'm really enjoying it and have put ~300miles on it already. My experience w/ BD has been nothing but positive up to this point. When I get another bike I may end up going thru them again.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

If you understand frame geometry and fit, then buying online isn't a biggie. I almost always recommend buying local because they make sure you fit the bike, often throw in a basic fit, as well as adjustments. Given that you will need adjustments, shops aren't going to throw in those freebies if you bought the bike somewhere else.


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## dbleyepatches (Jun 22, 2011)

spade2you said:


> If you understand frame geometry and fit, then buying online isn't a biggie. I almost always recommend buying local because they make sure you fit the bike, often throw in a basic fit, as well as adjustments. Given that you will need adjustments, shops aren't going to throw in those freebies if you bought the bike somewhere else.


It sounds like you guys have good local bike shops. I have one that is even remotely close and they aren't much to brag about. I will probably have to order online and figure the fitting out, or make a trip to the city.


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## TheMCP (Jun 2, 2011)

I have a Motobecane I bought about a month ago and I think its great, IME you're right about the value offered there. However if standover height is the only thing you're going on for fit, I'm not sure online is the way I'd go. Then again, depending on the shops in your area you might not be getting a whole lot of value as far as fitting goes anyway. Maybe ask in your regional forum for shop advice, or go around to your local places and ask them what their fitting process entails. For instance if you have somewhere that will put you on a trainer etc. and watch you pedal and make suggestions... that might be valuable enough to spend the extra at a shop.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

dbleyepatches said:


> I was looking at bikesdirect.com and it looks like I can get far more bike for my money there than anywhere else. I am looking at the Motobecane Vent Noir which has Tiagra components mainly and is far better equiped than the Giants (all that I can find locally) that I saw at the, not so local, LBS. The Motobecane is $699 shipped to my door and the Giant was $700 plus tax. Is there anything wrong with this bike?
> 
> I have read the posts about fit and I understand that it is crucial. If the frame gives 1-2 inches on stand over clearance, can the rest of the bike be adjusted?
> 
> Sorry for all of the questions. *I am a research guy and hate it when I throw my money away*!


There's different ways of looking at 'throwing your money away'. For example, since you understand that fit is critical, are you willing to buy online and gamble on getting sizing right to get a bike 'better equipped'? If you guess wrong (on sizing) and can't get fit right, was it a good deal or a waste of money.

Quality-wise, there's nothing wrong with many online bike offerings, but the onus is on you to get sizing right, then assemble/ tune the bike and tweak for for comfort (or bring it to a bike shop and pay for those services). Because the online 'stores' basically just ship a bike in a box (thus low overhead), they offer more in the way of 'select' components, while LBS's offer a myriad of services like sizing/ fit assistance, assembly, tuning, subsequent tweaks to fit and warranty assistance (if needed). 

If you're pretty much set on buying online, I suggest making that trip to the city, visit a reputable shop and pay for a standard fitting (about $50). Use the 'test bikes' geometry as a baseline to compare to those online. The closer the numbers, the closer your fit will be to the LBS bike. This method (IMO) at least minimizes the risk of buying online. And you can always post updates/ questions to this thread for further advice from members.


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## dbleyepatches (Jun 22, 2011)

Thanks for the tips. I think I will go to the LBS and talk to them. I think that we must be far behind where most shops are because I have never seen a test bike or a machine used for fitting. 

I will keep you posted on what I find.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

At a basic level, a stationary trainer and the customer's road bike, or any that's on the floor, are all that's needed for fitting. The fitter might also have a couple of toys that fit in a drawer. When I got it done, it was my bike on a trainer that must have come from the basement, and the fitter had a plumb bob and a protractor thing that he used to rough in a fit, with the rest based on feel.

If you have some roadie friends, ask them who's good. The quality of the fit has more to do with the skill of the fitter, IMHO, than any toys, lasers, smoke, mirrors, or other gadgets they may have.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

AndrwSwitch said:


> *At a basic level, a stationary trainer and the customer's road bike, or any that's on the floor, are all that's needed for fitting. *The fitter might also have a couple of toys that fit in a drawer. When I got it done, it was my bike on a trainer that must have come from the basement, and the fitter had a plumb bob and a protractor thing that he used to rough in a fit, with the rest based on feel.
> 
> If you have some roadie friends, ask them who's good. The quality of the fit has more to do with the skill of the fitter, IMHO, than any toys, lasers, smoke, mirrors, or other gadgets they may have.


Just to clarify, that statement is true as long as the customers bike or 'test bike' taken from the LBS's inventory is _sized_ correctly for the rider. If not, depending on how far off sizing is, the result of the_ fitting _won't be optimal - and could be just plain bad. So (again), buying online, the onus is on the customer to get sizing right.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

^^^^
No disagreement here. My nicer bike, actually, is a little big for me and the fit's going to be a compromise until such time as I can cannibalize it to build a new frameset.

OP - the point is that if you're willing to pay for it, you can get your shop to figure out your fit numbers for you. That'll give you the information you need to make a better online decision. IMO, still better to test ride and buy locally.


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## ohvrolla (Aug 2, 2009)

Knowledge of bike maintenance in another factor to consider, to the point of knowing how to build a bike from the frame up.

Wheels: Probably loose ball hubs. Chances are good you need to grease them and set the proper freeplay. Then look at truing and tensioning the spokes evenly.

Headset: Again, check the grease and know how to set up a threadless fork/stem.

Bottom bracket: Luckily (depending on how you look at it) these are sealed nowadays. If you have a torque wrench I'd check the crankset though.

Brakes: Need to know to center the brakes (pretty simple) and set pad height and toe.

Derailleurs/shifters: You should know how to properly set the high/low stops on both derailleurs as well as height and angle on the front derailleur. Know how to set cable tension for proper shifting. Another thing to consider is derailleur hanger alignment. It is possible for it to be a smidge out of alignment straight from the factory. I bought a Windsor Fens last year and found this. I use a make shift alignment checker, pretty much just a 1/4" thick flat bar bolted in place of the rear derailleur and check distance with a pair of calipers at three to four places on a TRUED rear wheel. I was 2-3 millimeters off with both hangers, possible within "spec", but went ahead and tweaked them to where they were spot on. 

If you can do that sort of maintenance, and have a solid grasp on fit then I'd go for it. I think it's good to know the ins and outs of setting up a bike anyways. I hate to say it, but I don't want to be "that guy" posting about throwing his chain shifting on the front and how to fix it. Even worse be the one who ripped off the rear derailleur from not knowing how to set the stops.


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## itc41 (Oct 27, 2009)

Out side of what your LBS can do for you, I would also think about this:

I think BD is ok, I even see some one ride a Motobecane in a crit. You would need to be able to build the bike.
they come nearly compleat, but you should be able to do every adjustment, and remove and replace all parts.
If their is a problem, they will send a part that you will need to install, or have installed at your cost. If you can
do that , thats a plus. 

Another consideration would be long term, a $700 giant is a good frame, and good enough bike to up grade
But a BD Motobecane might not be worth having any thing better the Tiagra on it. A giant frame will last nearly 
for ever, Giant also makes bike for other top name bikes. A BD Motobecane may not have a long life span, and 
may have a lot more BB flex, if you are riding hard or racing.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Motebecanes, and most or all of Bikesdirect's bikes are made by Kinesis, a pretty well-regarded company that's been making frames for ages.

They're not necessarily as advanced in one way or another as another company's frames. They'd be something that Kinesis can knock out quickly, maybe even a design they cooked up in-house to sell to other brands.

A teammate of mine who's been collecting primes and a few wins does his crits and road races on a Scattante. That's probably over for a while - he just upgraded (classes, not bikes.) Can't remember which category he was in. I do most of my competing off-road.

Anyway, for me it would come down to whether or not I was confident I could get the fit right. I think I could if I put my mind to it and dialed in my 'cross bike, which does fit me well, for road riding. But I already have a bike that fits me well.


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## oldskoolchevelle (Apr 27, 2011)

I actually have a Vent Noir that i got maybe 6 months ago. Besides the stock seat for me its a pretty good bike. To me it seems a bit on the heavy side (Mine is 21lbs) but for the price you cant go wrong.


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## J83 (Jul 6, 2011)

I've been researching a road bike for a while and BD is on my short list of options. If you look up Kinesis on wiki:

"Brands also manufactured by Kinesis include Diamondback, Felt Bicycles, GT Bicycles, Schwinn, Jamis, K2, Raleigh, Trek, Kross and Kona — as well as the brands marketed by the U.S. company Bikesdirect.com: Motobecane USA, Dawes USA, Cycles Mercier, Windsor America."

It's wikipedia, so take it with a grain of salt, but my thinking is same factory, same workers, probably same frames with different stickers....I could be completely wrong.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

They're not the same frames. Compare geometry charts. Some people are saying they're the same as Fujis, which is possible.

Bikesdirect bikes have kinda funky geometries. Not necessarily wrong for you, but a little different from most other brands' offerings, at least in the performance category.


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## J83 (Jul 6, 2011)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Not necessarily wrong for you, but a little different from most other brands' offerings, at least in the performance category.


When you say this, do you mean that, as a beginner, differences in frame geometry from a BD bike vs. a more expensive name-brand bike won't be as noticeable?

My thought is, get an inexpensive bike that fits well (be it from BD or Craigslist) to be sure I enjoy the sport. If in a year or two, I find that I love it, get a better bike (or in the case of a BD bike, a new frame). If I hate it, sell the bike and move on...


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

J83 said:


> I've been researching a road bike for a while and BD is on my short list of options. If you look up Kinesis on wiki:
> 
> "Brands also manufactured by Kinesis include Diamondback, Felt Bicycles, GT Bicycles, Schwinn, Jamis, K2, Raleigh, Trek, Kross and Kona — as well as the brands marketed by the U.S. company Bikesdirect.com: Motobecane USA, Dawes USA, Cycles Mercier, Windsor America."
> 
> It's wikipedia, so take it with a grain of salt, but *my thinking is same factory, same workers*, probably same frames with different stickers....I could be completely wrong.


Same factory, _maybe_ the same workers,_ maybe _varying QC levels. 

Offering a slightly different example, I highly doubt the same welder is piecing together that ti frame offered by BD, then welds a frame selling for ~$300 as a complete bike, then shifts over to the CF assembly line to do a layup for another. Different required skill levels dictates a different level of worker. But I do agree that an alu BD frame is probably welded by a worker of similar skill level as a Fuji (or Giant or Trek...). Still, the QC level _could_ vary in the same factory. 

Also, not that resale value is first and foremost on the minds of noob bike buyers, but it's pretty much established that it would be higher when reselling a better known brand versus a BD bike.

And then there are the sizing/ fitting/ assembly/ tuning issues/ pitfalls.... all to be considered with the purchase. Get the first wrong and there are no _good_ options.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

J83 said:


> When you say this, do you mean that, as a beginner, differences in frame geometry from a BD bike vs. a more expensive name-brand bike won't be as noticeable?
> 
> My thought is, get an inexpensive bike that fits well (be it from BD or Craigslist) to be sure I enjoy the sport. If in a year or two, I find that I love it, get a better bike (or in the case of a BD bike, a new frame). If I hate it, sell the bike and move on...


Different people have different proportions. Anyone reading this thread should confirm it for himself, but IIRC, BD's bikes tend to have shortish top tubes and longish head tubes. Certainly their mountain bikes run that way.

How much it matters, and whether it's good or bad, are subjective. I have two road bikes that are a little big for me, a 'cross bike that is potentially "just right" but that I fit a little oddly for better off-road comfort, and a mountain bike that's bang on for riding at a training pace. I have a pretty consistent riding position at this point, so I notice if I get on a bike and it makes me deviate from it. But it's not necessarily a big deal, depending on the length and type of ride.

One of my too-big road bikes is my commuter, and most of the time I'm starting and stopping so much and riding for such short distances that it doesn't really matter. My nicer road bike, though, is more problematic - I might go on a ride running over four hours on it, or even longer now and then. With setup choices, I have it fitting better, but the brake hoods are still pretty far from the saddle for my body so as rides run longer, especially with slower friends, I find myself shifting around a lot, putting too much weight on my hands, etc. If I do a really long ride, or a longish ride with a really slow friend, it'll actually start to hurt me. It's still my favorite bike, but if I get ahead enough this summer, I'm thinking I'll cannibalize it and build up something else. I love my road bike and will probably put the frame on my wall, since I don't think I could give it up. But it cuts into how much I enjoy riding.

By contrast, when I ride my mountain bike off-road, I really don't notice the bike or my position on it - I just ride it. While it's not my favorite bike, it's because I haven't had it as long and it's not my first mountain bike - it's just a piece of sporting equipment. My better road bike was also my first good road bike, part of why I got the size wrong, I think.

So, that should illustrate the importance of fit. Have a look at a geometry chart and you'll see that the change in dimensions for things like the top tube and head tube, or reach and stack, are pretty small from size to size. Fit's pretty sensitive to small changes.

Depending on how much you've been riding and how long your rides are, you may not notice a difference between a BD bike and one from a major brand. And I don't think there's any reason someone couldn't be just as comfortable on a BD bike as a name-brand one, provided they got the fit right. But since we're talking about differences on the order of 15mm, or even less, in the most important dimension, doing it sight-unseen is really difficult. Doing it in person is hard too - with my 'cross bike, I couldn't put my finger on what was wrong with the 54cm size, but I knew it was off; when I got on the 52cm, it felt more right. It's right enough, actually, that I may set it up for road and use it as a reference bike to size my next frame.


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## J83 (Jul 6, 2011)

Good info. Thank you. Great forum, by the way.


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## BostonG (Apr 13, 2010)

Really need to emphasize the difference in geometry here. You mentioned the Giant for $700 pre tax so my assumption is that you mean the Defy 3. Well, that frame’s geometry is very different from the Vent Noir (Giant is relaxed, vent is more aggressive) and will have a very different feel. Do you want a twitchy and responsive bike that is more suited for a crit? Or do you want a suitably fast but more stable bike that is more suited for something like a century?

Make a decision on the type of geometry you want, then look for those types of bikes – whether that be on line or at your LBS.


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## jmio (Aug 19, 2008)

I just bought a vent noir, i have put 400 miles on it so far, will be doing another century on it tomorrow. will be my 3rd! I like it a lot! It is still in stock form and I feel is a sh!t ton better than the 700 dollar bikes at the bike shop. Sora sucks in my opinion, all the bikes in that range i test rode felt like crap. this bike feels much more stable and reliable. the triple crank is not my cup of tea, but will be putting on a full rival grouppo, I dunno when though, I might keep it stock and once I achieve some personal goals on it, then I'll upgrade. If I keep getting the engine better, the upgrades will only be so much sweeter with strong legs behind it!!!!!


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## jmio (Aug 19, 2008)

i had a k2 mod 5.0, full dura ace, it was a nice frame. I feel like the vent noir was right up there with it. same feel. I don't feel the frame is the weak part of the bike on the vent noir. it will last just as long as a giant if you take care of the two bikes equally well.


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## springerjb (Jul 12, 2011)

Got my Vent Noir about 5 weeks ago. I couldn't be more pleased (for $700). Got exactly what is advertised in excellent condition. I did A LOT of back and forth on sizing. My advice, order a size (or even two) smaller than what is suggested. This is not a compact frame. More old school geometry. 

I'm just getting back to riding/tri after 4-5 years off. This is my fourth road bike (1 Trek, 2 Specialized) so I was confortable figuring out sizing for myself. I do feel some gulit about not spending/supporting my LBS...but they wanted over $1,000 for a similarly equiped bike. So I've made up for my guilt by buying my pedals and some other accessories from them. IMHO the expertise and customer service vary widely between LBS' and for newbies is can be hard to know when you are getting good advice and when they are trying to sell you what they have in stock. 

And yes I realize RBR says this is my first post. Well it seems my log in from years ago disappeared/inactive/or I've forgotten. I assure you I'm in no way connected to BD. Just a happy customer. 

When I have a more respectable post count (10 seems to be the magic number) I'll post pictures.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

springerjb said:


> Got my Vent Noir about 5 weeks ago. I couldn't be more pleased (for $700). Got exactly what is advertised in excellent condition. I did A LOT of back and forth on sizing. *My advice, order a size (or even two) smaller than what is suggested. This is not a compact frame. More old school geometry*.
> 
> I'm just getting back to riding/tri after 4-5 years off. This is my fourth road bike (1 Trek, 2 Specialized) so I was confortable figuring out sizing for myself. I do feel some gulit about not spending/supporting my LBS...but they wanted over $1,000 for a similarly equiped bike. So I've made up for my guilt by buying my pedals and some other accessories from them. IMHO the expertise and customer service vary widely between LBS' and for newbies is can be hard to know when you are getting good advice and when they are trying to sell you what they have in stock.
> 
> ...


Sorry, but I think that's poor advice. First off, sizing isn't so arbitrary that you can size down one or two frame sizes and expect good results. Besides, one has to_ know _their sizing requirements to know what one or two sizes down would constitute. Most noobs don't, unless they're sized at a LBS. I've been riding a number of years (25+) and know my requirements, and you'd have me on a 48 or 50 - neither would ever work. 

IME most cyclists have a fairly narrow range of fit parameters that will work best, and _while some might be* between *two frame sizes _(52 and 54, for example), sizing down two frame sizes is likely to result in ordering the wrong size, which will almost certainly result in a bad fit.

Also, I think your statement re: compact geo is misleading. While it's true that frame sizes can vary between most makes (and even models), the inherent differences in traditional versus compact geo alone don't warrant a different frame size (basically a sloping top tube versus horizontal). In fact, the geo of the Vent Noir is very close to a Specialized Tarmac, which _is_ compact geo, so no need for altering sizing requirements (once known).

Lastly, this being your fourth road bike, you're not a noob to road riding, and (presumably) have another bike or bikes to use as a baseline for comparison for ordering online. Most noobs frequenting this (beginner's) forum don't have that baseline, so will essentially be flying blind on sizing. Not recommended, IMHO.


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## springerjb (Jul 12, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> Sorry, but I think that's poor advice. First off, sizing isn't so arbitrary that you can size down one or two frame sizes and expect good results. Besides, one has to_ know _their sizing requirements to know what one or two sizes down would constitute. Most noobs don't, unless they're sized at a LBS. I've been riding a number of years (25+) and know my requirements, and you'd have me on a 48 or 50 - neither would ever work.
> 
> IME most cyclists have a fairly narrow range of fit parameters that will work best, and _while some might be* between *two frame sizes _(52 and 54, for example), sizing down two frame sizes is likely to result in ordering the wrong size, which will almost certainly result in a bad fit.
> 
> ...


Fair criticism. The point I was trying to make (and did a poor job of it) is that there isn't much you can do to fix ordering a frame that is too large. IMHO you have a lot more options if you order a frame on the smaller side. Ideally you get the perfect size and everyone is happy. But the risk you run ordering online is in frame size. Everything else can be customized to fit the rider if needed. Granted there are limitations to this, but within reason (a size or two down) there are a lot of options to make it work well. 

The BD sizing guide(s) is (are) generally a disaster. My primary concern is for the noob who orders according to BD's sizing guide, ends up with a bike that is "supposed" to fit, and gives up riding because it just doesn't work for them (thus getting stuck with a bike with generally less resale value due to lack for brand recognition/respect). 

Ideally everyone could afford to support the LBS, spend $1,000+tax on an entry level bike with a decent frame, carbon fork, 105 components, decent wheels, custom fit, and great service. Add on the typical extras (pedals, computer, H20 cages, flat kit, Super Flash, plus clothing/shoes) and it'll cost you $1,500 to get set up for your first real ride. This is cost prohibitive for a lot of folks out there. My guess is most BD customers are on a tight budget (like myself). So if you have a budget and compromise on the bike (no carbon, Sora or worse, crappy wheels) to get a custom fit how happy are you going to be when you are spending big money on upgrades 3 months later? The alternative seems to be what BD offers. You trade the custom fit and great service (which isn't a guarantee at the LBS anyway) for a chance to play road bike lotto (with good odds) with BD.

Anyway, thanks for helping me clarify my post. Cheers.


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## J83 (Jul 6, 2011)

springerjb said:


> The BD sizing guide(s) is (are) generally a disaster. My primary concern is for the noob who orders according to BD's sizing guide, ends up with a bike that is "supposed" to fit, and gives up riding because it just doesn't work for them (thus getting stuck with a bike with generally less resale value due to lack for brand recognition/respect).


To this end...has anyone ever reported back that they've ordered the wrong size from BD and been able to send it back for a swap? At what expense?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

J83 said:


> To this end...has anyone ever reported back that they've ordered the wrong size from BD and been able to send it back for a swap? At what expense?


Yes, members have posted that a BD (or similar) purchase didn't work out and they ended up selling the bike and purchasing from an LBS. Also, FWIW in scanning CL in my locale I've run across ads mentioning that the reason a (BD) bike is for sale is because it's the wrong size. As springerjb mentions, it can happen when puchasing from a LBS as well, but then the onus is on them to correct the situation, because they size/ fit a rider prior to the sale. 

As far as returns and the expenses incurred, BD states that return shipping is up to the buyer. BD's responsibility extends only to shipping you what you order. Remember too, that for a buyer to determine a bike is ill fitting, they'll need to unpack it, assemble and tune it, then test ride it. This means that prior to returning, the bike has to be partially disassembled, repacked and prepped for shipping, so those expenses have to be calculated in as well. 

Reordering another size would just be treated as a new order and shipping would be paid by BD.


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