# Evaluate my power curve & tips to target 1 min power?



## tazunemono

I'm pretty new to power training, and have pulled my power chart that shows my results (I'm 165 lbs) 










Looking at the results, my 1-minute power is lacking ... I'm around 7.4 W/kg @ 1 min. which is my weak spot. How can I train it to be around 8.4 W/kg without losing too much more weight?

FTP is around 3.5 W/kg

Looking at the Coggan chart for W/kg, my 5s power puts me in the "very good" cat 2 category (18.0 W/kg); 1 min power is cat 4 (7.4 W/kg); 5 min is cat 3 (4.4 W/kg); FTP is high cat 4/low cat 3 (3.5 W/kg).


Do I train my strengths, or my weaknesses, or both?


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## woodys737

IME, it does no good to have a great 10-30S power if you can't be there in the end to tap into it. Perhaps you will get away with this in the lower cats but, I think when you move up and everyone is relatively strong this will be germane. I keep coming back to a couple books written by Allen and Coggan that suggest training to raise FTP (which will train all the systems) is a good all around approach for those of us who work a bit or new to racing. Focus on your weakness but keep an eye on your strengths.


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## kbiker3111

How many rides is this curve made up of?


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## tazunemono

kbiker3111 said:


> How many rides is this curve made up of?


The last 6 months of power data, it's a "best efforts" power curve.


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## kbiker3111

tazunemono said:


> ​The last 6 months of power data, it's a "best efforts" power curve.


Hmmm, thats a lot of data but I might suggest that it still doesn't include a true 1 minute all out effort. Those tend to be rare since they're so hard. How does this reflect in your racing? Do you struggle up short kickers or to respond to attacks? If you don't have any trouble racing, then I wouldn't worry about the power curve. If you feel having more short, intense power would help your racing then by all means do some L6 work to build 1min power.


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## the_gormandizer

I think the power profile can be misleading. At one stage I worked at getting mine more leveled out, but it did not make me a better racer. You can fake the data, for instance, by doing a 1 min effort on a perfect stretch of road (smooth, slight incline) after a nice recovery-level warmup. But this says nothing about your ability to make that 1 min power, then recover to a base level, then repeat, as you might have to in a race.


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## tazunemono

Perhaps I'm using the wrong tool for the job? I do have trouble racing. I have great FTP endurance, but go much above FTP for a minute or two and I'm cooked. I've been starting to do more LT intervals (e.g., over/unders) but an monitoring the "best efforts" curve for improvements. What charts/graphs have more meaning for determining the progress of training with power? It's surely not just FTP.


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## the_gormandizer

I did not mean to say that you are using the wrong tool, or that you are wrong to do intervals above L4. Doing some intervals into L5 or L6 will definitely be helpful, but the power numbers you can achieve during repeated intervals will necessarily be lower than the values you test to when fresh. 

By the way, my ftp is above 4.0 W/kg and I am still a middling Cat 4. So don't put too much store in the absolute numbers in the Coggan power profile, and don't think you can neglect your ftp. I don't know how tall you are, so please don't take this the wrong way, but unless you are very lean, losing weight can be an important part of the equation.

If you can afford it, you might want to consider using a coach for a season or two. A good coach will tell you exactly what you need to be doing.


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## tazunemono

the_gormandizer said:


> I don't know how tall you are, so please don't take this the wrong way, but unless you are very lean, losing weight can be an important part of the equation..


Thanks for the advice. I'm 5'10" 165 lbs right now, 14.5% BF


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## iliveonnitro

Those levels were created from world class athletes in their respective disciplines. An endurance cyclist will not have the peak or 60s power as a track sprinter, just as a track sprinter will not have the FTP of a road cyclist. In other words, don't use the power profile to try and justify what category you should be based on it. The only category you are is the one in which you compete and there's a lot more to it than numbers.

In terms of training, follow the advice of "train your weaknesses, race you strengths."

At 14.5% body fat, you have a lot of weight to lose. I was at 5'8" 148lbs (8% body fat) at my peak for collegiate nationals back in the day and I was probably 7-8lbs overweight for that race...as a sprinter (~4.5w/kg FTP, 22.2w/kg 5s).


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## tom_h

*Specificity in training ...*

To improve 1min power, you need to train & practice 1min efforts.

Basically, 1min anaerobic intervals @ maximum effort.

These can take many forms. 
Eg, a set of 5 repetitions, 1min on, 5min recovery (pedal under 100W), starting from very slow roll in 53x12 gear. 

These hurt, and are probably my least favorite of any workout.

A typical power data will be very high power for the first 15 sec, with a rapid decline.

Even doing these 1/week, you should see some definite improvements after 6 weeks. Higher 15sec peak powers, and the power decline on the remaining 45sec will stabilize at a higher level.


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## fretking

tazunemono said:


> Thanks for the advice. I'm 5'10" 165 lbs right now, 14.5% BF


It's hard to argue against a good power/weight ratio. I'm 6', 159 lbs and have been as low as 153. My best results came at around 156-157 and 7% bf. I find it _much_ more difficult to turn down dessert than to train hard, so for me, shedding those last 5 lbs. is always tough but the payoff is real and tangible. There is no way around extra body fat: you have to burn through it and get as lean as reasonably possible.


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## serious

the_gormandizer said:


> I think the power profile can be misleading. At one stage I worked at getting mine more leveled out, but it did not make me a better racer. You can fake the data, for instance, by doing a 1 min effort on a perfect stretch of road (smooth, slight incline) after a nice recovery-level warmup. But this says nothing about your ability to make that 1 min power, then recover to a base level, then repeat, as you might have to in a race.


That curve represents the best numbers for various intervals all graphed out, by connecting the dots that represent basic intervals ( 1s, 5s, 1m, 5m, 20m, 30m, 60m, etc.). The curve says nothing about ability to recover or anything else. And the curve will never be levelled out because it grows exponentially as interval time shortens.


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## Bridgey

In a road race, I can't reproduce my power profile as I am required to put in a lot of intervals at between 500 and 800W through out. Whether I'm in it to win it is more about how many of these efforts I can handle before cracking. It's like survival of the fittest. I actually find the 2nd half of a race easier than the 1st half. For me, an FTP means nothing (but is still important to have a good one). It's more about how many hard efforts you can reproduce. I know Time triallist who get dropped after a few hard efforts as they're not use to it. 

My suggestion is to work on 30sec to 2min intervals, along with your FTP. For 1min interval trainining, I'd be doing 30 to 45sec intervals to build up the power that you will then transfer into your 1min efforts. If I want to increase my 2min ability, I train 1min to 1min 30secs intervals. It's about teaching your body to handle more power first, then you transfer it into the time segment you're after.


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## duriel

I don't see how looking at a graph of a compilation of 6 months of training is going to be of any use in training. It is just another graph to look at.
To evaluate gains & weak areas you need to set up repeatable courses/time frames that you can judge individual efforts which would include the overall output of the total ride. 
In a race you have to put out a high base effort and be able to cover jumps whether they are on a hill, sprint, or what ever.
I would practice on that on select days & do short intervals as described on other days. These efforts would be inserted into another general build/base schedule.


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## locustfist

I would work on two things based on what you're saying.

Max power and 30 second power

T-max is an interval of your peak power output for 60% of the max time you can sustain that effort (you'll have to test yourself). Full recovery for double that time. Basically, it's as hard as you can go for 60% of the time you can sustain it (keeps the effort at a quality level).

30 second is similar. 30 seconds all out. 3 minute recovery.

The foundation of my race program is built on these two efforts. Naturally I'm doing all the other stuff but these two made a huge difference.


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## hrumpole

tazunemono said:


> Perhaps I'm using the wrong tool for the job? I do have trouble racing. I have great FTP endurance, but go much above FTP for a minute or two and I'm cooked. I've been starting to do more LT intervals (e.g., over/unders) but an monitoring the "best efforts" curve for improvements. What charts/graphs have more meaning for determining the progress of training with power? It's surely not just FTP.


It sounds like anaerobic capacity. (E.g., base builds the matchbook; AC is the matches.). Training this is brutal, but Carmichael's plans do a good job of it. Ways of doing it include 2' on (well over vo2 levels), 2'off. Repeat 4 times. Rest ten minutes. Do it again. Try this 1x per week for three weeks. 

OR (I used to do this, and it helped). do a 20 min FTP interval. During that interval, if there's a short hill (3 min or less), hammer it, then return to threshold as quick as you can and finish out the interval. If you do this right, you will not be able to continue at threshold. You know you're improving when the time in tempo goes down. 

Warning: Both of these HURT.


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