# My Windsor experience



## joness

I was looking for a bike for my fiance, and being cheap - i mean "thrifty" - I ended up looking at the Motobecanes and Windsors. I am a bit anal when it comes to sizing and had a pretty good idea what I needed for her. After some research I thought the Windsor Kennet looked like a pretty good deal. You do have to ignore the MSRP on the website - the Kennet is not a $2800 bike - closer to a $1600 bike in my opinion (check some of the offerings from Felt for example). And you could do much better on a frame/fork for the $1295 MSRP they have listed. I am a realist though, and $1000 shipped for the bike is quite a good deal.

The Winsor site lists the 52cm frame with a 53cm top tube. That's what I was looking for. One was listed on eBay from seller chicabike, so I asked some other sizing questions. I had her confirm the top tube length as 53, and asked stem length, bar width and crank length. I was informed that yes, it was 53cm, with a 90cm stem, 40cm wide bar, and a 170 crank. All really well sized for this frame and my fiance, so with a quick buy it now I had it on the way. It arrived in about a week. 

The good:
- Ultegra for under $1000 is a great deal
- Ritchey parts were all good
- American Classic wheels are nice at this pricepoint
- Included was a second roll of bar tape

Not great, but expected:
- The paint had some drips in it, but nothing you would notice from 5 feet.
- The fork was not light. Somewhere around 560 grams, but what do you expect for this price?
- The cable housing was all way too long. Seems like they have one length housing they use on the 62cm bikes all the way down. No big deal, just cut it and re-dial in your shifters/brakes.
- The derailleur hanger was slightly bent. Again, expected. It will happen on most bikes that get shipped.

The bad:
- The stem shipped was not a 90, but a 100. Not a huge deal to replace the stem though.
- The cranks shipped were 172.5, not 170. This is a spendy fix
- The bars shipped were 42cm, not 40 (I run 42cm ritcheys on my bike, so i know i measured properly)
- The bottom bracket was higher than I like to see

The unacceptable:
- The top tube length measured out to 55cm. That's 2cm longer than the geometry said it was. I measured many times, scratched my head, measured the seat tube... yep, the frame is a 52cm.. look up the geometry on the website, measure 55 again. Check my email that says it's 53cm... measure 55 again. I could have put a 70mm stem on it, but I believe that to adversely affect handling. The kick in the pants was I sold a better frame with a full carbon fork with more standover that had a 55.5 top tube to help pay for this bike.

I contacted chicabike, and she was suprised as she had quoted me what was on the website. I had her measure the 50cm top tube, which was listed as 51.5cm. It measured out at 52cm (don't know if this was effective or actual - but whichever it was, it wasn't what the windsor site said). 
*
She allowed me to return the bike, refunded all my money and paid for shipping. * This was very good customer service. I am happy with the customer service, but not the bike. A bargain is only a bargain if it fits. 

I ended up buying local so she could test ride it and be sure it fit. We paid a little more, got a 105 bike instead of ultegra, but it fit which will make the difference between her riding it and not.

Thanks for reading
Tim Jones


----------



## Lifelover

*Wow!*



joness said:


> I was looking for a bike for my fiance, and being cheap - i mean "thrifty" - I ended up looking at the Motobecanes and Windsors. I am a bit anal when it comes to sizing and had a pretty good idea what I needed for her. After some research I thought the Windsor Kennet looked like a pretty good deal. You do have to ignore the MSRP on the website - the Kennet is not a $2800 bike - closer to a $1600 bike in my opinion (check some of the offerings from Felt for example). And you could do much better on a frame/fork for the $1295 MSRP they have listed. I am a realist though, and $1000 shipped for the bike is quite a good deal.
> 
> The Winsor site lists the 52cm frame with a 53cm top tube. That's what I was looking for. One was listed on eBay from seller chicabike, so I asked some other sizing questions. I had her confirm the top tube length as 53, and asked stem length, bar width and crank length. I was informed that yes, it was 53cm, with a 90cm stem, 40cm wide bar, and a 170 crank. All really well sized for this frame and my fiance, so with a quick buy it now I had it on the way. It arrived in about a week.
> 
> The good:
> - Ultegra for under $1000 is a great deal
> - Ritchey parts were all good
> - American Classic wheels are nice at this pricepoint
> - Included was a second roll of bar tape
> 
> Not great, but expected:
> - The paint had some drips in it, but nothing you would notice from 5 feet.
> - The fork was not light. Somewhere around 560 grams, but what do you expect for this price?
> - The cable housing was all way too long. Seems like they have one length housing they use on the 62cm bikes all the way down. No big deal, just cut it and re-dial in your shifters/brakes.
> - The derailleur hanger was slightly bent. Again, expected. It will happen on most bikes that get shipped.
> 
> The bad:
> - The stem shipped was not a 90, but a 100. Not a huge deal to replace the stem though.
> - The cranks shipped were 172.5, not 170. This is a spendy fix
> - The bars shipped were 42cm, not 40 (I run 42cm ritcheys on my bike, so i know i measured properly)
> - The bottom bracket was higher than I like to see
> 
> The unacceptable:
> - The top tube length measured out to 55cm. That's 2cm longer than the geometry said it was. I measured many times, scratched my head, measured the seat tube... yep, the frame is a 52cm.. look up the geometry on the website, measure 55 again. Check my email that says it's 53cm... measure 55 again. I could have put a 70mm stem on it, but I believe that to adversely affect handling. The kick in the pants was I sold a better frame with a full carbon fork with more standover that had a 55.5 top tube to help pay for this bike.
> 
> I contacted chicabike, and she was suprised as she had quoted me what was on the website. I had her measure the 50cm top tube, which was listed as 51.5cm. It measured out at 52cm (don't know if this was effective or actual - but whichever it was, it wasn't what the windsor site said).
> *
> She allowed me to return the bike, refunded all my money and paid for shipping. * This was very good customer service. I am happy with the customer service, but not the bike. A bargain is only a bargain if it fits.
> 
> I ended up buying local so she could test ride it and be sure it fit. We paid a little more, got a 105 bike instead of ultegra, but it fit which will make the difference between her riding it and not.
> 
> Thanks for reading
> Tim Jones



That pretty much sucks! Makes you wonder about the dimensions of the rest of the line up of the BD stuff or maybe just some serious QC issues.

While it's nice that they allowed your to return the bike and covered shipping it still seems like it must of been a fair amount of effort on your unpacking, assembling, disassembling and repacking the bike.

This is not the first time I've heard of bikes coming for BD that are basically the wrong size.


----------



## Jeff G

In reading the OP, he stated he got it from "chicabike" on Ebay and not Bikesdirect even though Bikedirect probably carries the same Windsor model. I'm not sure if there is any connection between Bikesdirect or the seller "chicabike" on ebay. I do believe that bikesdirect sells on Ebay but has a different seller name. 

I haven't bought a complete bike off of Ebay only parts and accessories. I did buy my road bike from an on line seller, Randall Scott. The most important thing is to make sure you know what size you need before ordering. Even though the OP knew exactly what size he wanted for his fiance, the frame geometry was not manufactured to the dimensions listed on the Windsor website. He got a complete refund, but it was still a hassle unpacking, assembling and then having to take it apart to repack and send back. 

I'm not really sure which way I will go on my next bike purchase. I have no complaints about the Tomasso I bought from Randall Scott, I think I like the fact that when I"m ready to sell my current ride and get another there are quite a few shops in my area to look at and at least test ride some different brands.


----------



## covenant

Jeff G said:


> In reading the OP, he stated he got it from "chicabike" on Ebay and not Bikesdirect even though Bikedirect probably carries the same Windsor model. I'm not sure if there is any connection between Bikesdirect or the seller "chicabike" on ebay. I do believe that bikesdirect sells on Ebay but has a different seller name.


My guess is chicabike is Cycle Spectrum in Austin TX.


----------



## Lifelover

Jeff G said:


> In reading the OP, he stated he got it from "chicabike" on Ebay and not Bikesdirect ......



You can bet your sweet Arse that if "chicabike" is not affiliated with BD, Mike will let you know.


----------



## joness

When UPS called the morning of the pickup, the automated system said the pickup order was created by Cycles Spectrum. The tag has the ship to address as: 
BIKESDIRECT.COM
2305 STERLING CENTER LANE
HOUSTON TX 77023


----------



## bikesdirect

*Chicabike*

Chicabike on ebay is my sister in law -- she lives in Austin

I supply her with lots of bikes that she sells on ebay

Most her customers are very happy, her rating in 99.9% and over 2000 transactions

She is very service oriented

Liz mainly sels bikes under $500 - including a nice entry road bike for $199
May seem basic to many on here, but she has had customers ride those bikes cross country [like 2000 mile tours!]

anyway, the higher level Windsors that I got her for fall sales were great deals. A-Pro had supplied the next higher level frame at no extra cost [but some geometry confusion]

She had an Ultegra double, Ultegra Triple, and a Dura Ace version. All with American Classic wheels. I think she had really low prices on them as she sold out at once. 

She actually had a waiting list for extra bikes if I could get them. But I had promised the extra ones I could get to a dealer in California. That dealer has two big shops and is selling them like crazy. 

Liz will start next year selling Aluminum Dawes with compact frames from Ideal and I guees her business will get even better. She works hard to make her customers happy. And now all 3 of her boys are in school, so she will have even more time to provide customer support.


----------



## Lifelover

joness said:


> I was looking for a bike for my fiance, and being cheap - i mean "thrifty" - I ended up looking at the Motobecanes and Windsors. I am a bit anal when it comes to sizing and had a pretty good idea what I needed for her. After some research I thought the Windsor Kennet looked like a pretty good deal. You do have to ignore the MSRP on the website - the Kennet is not a $2800 bike - closer to a $1600 bike in my opinion (check some of the offerings from Felt for example). And you could do much better on a frame/fork for the $1295 MSRP they have listed. I am a realist though, and $1000 shipped for the bike is quite a good deal.
> 
> The Winsor site lists the 52cm frame with a 53cm top tube. That's what I was looking for. One was listed on eBay from seller chicabike, so I asked some other sizing questions. I had her confirm the top tube length as 53, and asked stem length, bar width and crank length. I was informed that yes, it was 53cm, with a 90cm stem, 40cm wide bar, and a 170 crank. All really well sized for this frame and my fiance, so with a quick buy it now I had it on the way. It arrived in about a week.
> 
> The good:
> - Ultegra for under $1000 is a great deal
> - Ritchey parts were all good
> - American Classic wheels are nice at this pricepoint
> - Included was a second roll of bar tape
> 
> Not great, but expected:
> - The paint had some drips in it, but nothing you would notice from 5 feet.
> - The fork was not light. Somewhere around 560 grams, but what do you expect for this price?
> - The cable housing was all way too long. Seems like they have one length housing they use on the 62cm bikes all the way down. No big deal, just cut it and re-dial in your shifters/brakes.
> - The derailleur hanger was slightly bent. Again, expected. It will happen on most bikes that get shipped.
> 
> The bad:
> - The stem shipped was not a 90, but a 100. Not a huge deal to replace the stem though.
> - The cranks shipped were 172.5, not 170. This is a spendy fix
> - The bars shipped were 42cm, not 40 (I run 42cm ritcheys on my bike, so i know i measured properly)
> - The bottom bracket was higher than I like to see
> 
> The unacceptable:
> - The top tube length measured out to 55cm. That's 2cm longer than the geometry said it was. I measured many times, scratched my head, measured the seat tube... yep, the frame is a 52cm.. look up the geometry on the website, measure 55 again. Check my email that says it's 53cm... measure 55 again. I could have put a 70mm stem on it, but I believe that to adversely affect handling. The kick in the pants was I sold a better frame with a full carbon fork with more standover that had a 55.5 top tube to help pay for this bike.
> 
> I contacted chicabike, and she was suprised as she had quoted me what was on the website. I had her measure the 50cm top tube, which was listed as 51.5cm. It measured out at 52cm (don't know if this was effective or actual - but whichever it was, it wasn't what the windsor site said).
> *
> She allowed me to return the bike, refunded all my money and paid for shipping. * This was very good customer service. I am happy with the customer service, but not the bike. A bargain is only a bargain if it fits.
> 
> I ended up buying local so she could test ride it and be sure it fit. We paid a little more, got a 105 bike instead of ultegra, but it fit which will make the difference between her riding it and not.
> 
> Thanks for reading
> Tim Jones



If you are ever in the market for another bike and want to consider the internet you may want to consider Leader Bikes. (https://www.leaderbikestore.com/pd_ld_736r3.cfm)

You seem very particular about the selection of component sizing and Leader allows you to pick each and every item. A much better method for more sophisticated buyers.


It is also a damn nice looking product


----------



## indygreg

measured my mercier this morning. 56cm seat tube (CTR/TOP) and 56 Top Tube (CTR/CTR) dead on to the specs.


----------

