# I admire Lance Armstrong. Do you?



## andy11 (Aug 23, 2009)

I have not been following the tour for too long. I have watched only couple of tour de france races. (Watching Lance is amazing this year)

You can say anything. Yeah, he seem arrogant. But what he has gone through, for him to be back like this. You can ONLY admire it.

I think anyone who is passionate about cycling, will find it hard not to admire Lance. Agree?


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## SwooshDaddy (May 8, 2009)

I agree.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

andy11 said:


> I have not been following the tour for too long. I have watched only couple of tour de france races. (Watching Lance is amazing this year)
> 
> You can say anything. Yeah, he seem arrogant. But what he has gone through, for him to be back like this. You can ONLY admire it.
> 
> I think anyone who is passionate about cycling, will find it hard not to admire Lance. Agree?


He was pretty damn arrogant before cancer too. IMO, the most "real" moment I ever saw out of Lance was his win at Worlds in '93. He's so giddy and overjoyed, he acts like a normal guy would.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)




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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

andy11 said:


> I have not been following the tour for too long. I have watched only couple of tour de france races. (Watching Lance is amazing this year)
> 
> You can say anything. Yeah, he seem arrogant. But what he has gone through, for him to be back like this. You can ONLY admire it.
> 
> I think anyone who is passionate about cycling, will find it hard not to admire Lance. Agree?


Thanks for bringing up this angle that has completely been ignored in the previous 24398435234 posts on armstrong. 
I don't think anyone disputes he is fast on a bike.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

Wait, I heard that he had cancer? Whoa!


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## TReiner (Mar 21, 2009)

Andrea138 said:


>


Why?

exactly, please, as the generalizations are bullshit 

Athlete and ego go together and the man supports a worthy cause he has ties too 

to all the haters, get off the anonymous internet and achieve the same as LA has. then open your mouths

otherwise, stop hating 

bring it or STFU


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

are treks good bikes?


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

andy11 said:


> You can say anything. Yeah, he seem arrogant. But what he has gone through, for him to be back like this. You can ONLY admire it.
> 
> I think anyone who is passionate about cycling, will find it hard not to admire Lance. Agree?


If you're passionate about cycling you love it whether Lance is in it or not.


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## EverydayRide (Sep 12, 2008)

TReiner said:


> Why?
> 
> exactly, please, as the generalizations are bullshit


Be a bigger person amongst the court jesters.  

You can't convince a crowd or an incited riot when roared upon. The anti Lance loyalists can never be defeated. It's much like a perfect under graduate 4.0 grade average student being accused of cheating or having perfect scores on passing your IBIM at 21 of age. Calling you a cheater.

Look, Lance is not there for the population who's against him. *He's for the winners who never thought to fight to win.*

Take that and run with it. 

The world was never FLAT!


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## takl23 (Jul 22, 2007)

I've loved Lance for a long time. If he's doing a comeback to really help promote cancer great. But one thing is for sure, Le Tour is too hard to just say hey, I feel like riding it this year. Part of me thinks he feel that he left too early.

Bottom line is, you only get one shot in life and he is very close to the end of his cycling rope to do much else. As long as he doesn't retire and keep coming back 2 or 3 times, no worries. 

As for favre, he is an embarrasment to himself the way he has been acting. The two can't be compared. 

If lance remains competitive, he should keep going. What we don't want is a sh*# show and all anyone can remember is how he should've hung it up.

Tim


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

il sogno said:


> If you're passionate about cycling you love it whether Lance is in it or not.


+ A zillion

Can we stop talking about him now?


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

I like beer


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

andy11 said:


> I have not been following the tour for too long. I have watched only couple of tour de france races. (Watching Lance is amazing this year)
> 
> You can say anything. Yeah, he seem arrogant. But what he has gone through, for him to be back like this. You can ONLY admire it.
> 
> I think anyone who is passionate about cycling, will find it hard not to admire Lance. Agree?


Here we go! This will bring'em out of their shrinks offices by the handfull.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

I'd admire him a lot more if he would have tried to win the Giro a time or two. 

Winning the Tour over and over doesn't seem like someone passionate for cycling, it seems more like someone interested in the biggest payday and publicity. He'd never put forth the effort in lesser races and if he did win it was only to get into form for the Tour. 

The man has or had a fantastic engine, I only wish he would have spread it around and not just focused on picking up the $10million bonus from nike on completion of his tour win(s).

As far as admiring the guy. I don't have anything against him, I can't say I find him interesting as a person though. Once again he pedals a bike really fast, that doesn't make him very fascinating to me.


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## andy11 (Aug 23, 2009)

heathb - I think most pro athletes are there to win the biggest tournament of all as well as for money. You can't deny that. Top NFL stars won't do smaller tournaments. Imagine Barry Bonds competing in local baseball games or minor league.. that would be ridiculous. Unless you are involved in a charity event, typically top athletes won't do it. It makes sense. Why tarnish your image when you can go for gold?? You and I can only comment sitting here, but we were NEVER in his shoes. We never went through winning 7 tours. Now I would imagine, for me as an athlete, going for the 8th win is more challenging then winning lets say the tour of New Zealand. (Ofcourse money and publicity goes with it). 

Now imagine Pete Sampras or Nadal or Federer or williams after so many grand slams trying to compete for a local Berlin open?!! Sounds silly unless it is for charity.

I have watched the complete tour only for 2 years, but I think tour de france is the most challenging of all and the pinnacle of cycling. Formula1 is the pinnacle of motorsport. Lets say Michael Schumacher now wants to compete in some rolex road series of ohio or something (just made up the name!), it would be ridiculous. Then everyone would be why the hell he is doing that?

As far as Lance goes, if he can compete at a high level, he should go for another win! Comparing him with Farve is not fair. They are completely different. Cycling requires more individual skill to win.. NFL is "more" team sport and farve is an old fart. He should leave us alone!!

il Songo - yes i am passionate about cycling esp. tour de france, but with lance on it, the drama, the level of competition, the media hype, the countless roumors, all make it even more exciting to watch! '

I am not watching the tour for many many years like some of you here, I am not a die hard Lance fan or any specific rider in particular, I haven't really followed and watched the tour when he was at his peak winning, but all i can say is the following:

*
Watching Johan Bruyneel tell contador on his radio at the Alps this year.. "lance is going time trail solo, i repeat lance is going time trail solo..", and you are getting goosebumps watching him pedal hard every stroke and pulling away, losing others, to catch up towards schlecks and contador, - you can feel the entire thing on versus HD live, and you are also screaming your lungs out, come on go, GO, GO..GO...GO...GO...GO.. * whether you like him or hate him, if you are passionate about cycling, you are there with him and screaming, you can feel the pain on your knees. period. 

It is as if adrenaline poured out of the TV set and in through your living room and on to you!


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

I don't know much about American football or Fahrve but Armstrong's coming back to cycling and finishing the TDF in 3rd spot is not exactly "Has Been" performance. If he'd come in 3rd from last, or missed the time cut on the 3rd stage...then maybe all the people who say "He shouldda stayed retired" or "he's making a fool of himself by coming back" might actually have some reasons to say that. He wanted to return to racing, he did so, and he's podiumed a bunch of times since he started back up with it..Good for him and good for us.

One of the simplest things about racing is that at the end of each race the results are there for all. Those finishing at the front are the better racers. Those behind have to 'explain' (or maybe we Internet dudes will do it for them) why they weren't at the front. There are waaay more 'explainers' than racers who consistently finish on the podium. Ol Lance, he can still creak his way up those steps pretty often..so why should he stay retired? As long as he has the legs and the inclination to train and race successfully, he's OK by me. A "character" for sure, in the way he acts sometimes, but still good.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

andy11 said:


> heathb - I think most pro athletes are there to win the biggest tournament of all as well as for money. You can't deny that. Top NFL stars won't do smaller tournaments. Imagine Barry Bonds competing in local baseball games or minor league.. that would be ridiculous. Unless you are involved in a charity event, typically top athletes won't do it. It makes sense. Why tarnish your image when you can go for gold?? You and I can only comment sitting here, but we were NEVER in his shoes. We never went through winning 7 tours. Now I would imagine, for me as an athlete, going for the 8th win is more challenging then winning lets say the tour of New Zealand. (Ofcourse money and publicity goes with it).
> 
> Now imagine Pete Sampras or Nadal or Federer or williams after so many grand slams trying to compete for a local Berlin open?!! Sounds silly unless it is for charity.


I'm not sure the NFL is a good comparison, since it's a sanctioned league sport. The season is already in place. Tennis and golf are the more apt examples. What if Federer never entered the US Open or the French Open and told everyone who wanted to be the best to beat him at Wimbledon? Or if Tiger only did the master's? Not only would this rub some fans the wrong way (who may prefer the US Open to Wimbledon) but it would make you wonder if he could dominate at other events like he does at Wimbledon. 



> il Songo - yes i am passionate about cycling esp. tour de france, but with lance on it, the drama, the level of competition, the media hype, the countless roumors, all make it even more exciting to watch! '


This years Tour was the least exciting since '04. Less Lance's fault and more Conti/Cav's, though.


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## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

TReiner said:


> Why?
> 
> exactly, please, as the generalizations are bullshit
> 
> ...


There should be a rule on the internet that you can only tell someone to STFU if you can understand the post you're criticizing.


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## Swish (Jul 31, 2004)

A great sportsman, not the greatest personality.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

TReiner said:


> Why?
> 
> exactly, please, as the generalizations are bullshit
> 
> ...


I don't even know who this "armstrong" fellow is, but I know I'm tired of reading the same thread posted over and over and over again. That's all.


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## Reith (Jul 10, 2005)

TReiner said:


> Why?
> 
> exactly, please, as the generalizations are bullshit
> 
> ...


Yes, please , to all the haters and every one else, PLEASE do not post anything ever again and do not express your opinions about anything ever until you have won 7 Tours of France. Until you have brought it and won 7 Tours, you not only need to STFU, you need to crawl into a cave and never speak again. You might want to stop eating while you are at it at least until you have one Grand Tour victory.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

How is it possible to not admire Armstrong? He is one of the greatest cycle racers who ever lived.
Did he race clean? Who knows? Personally I don't care - the whole sport is dirty IMO.
Is he an interesting character? Yes.
Is his character endearing? No.
Has his overall contribution to cycling been good? Jury is out, but probably yes.
Do I like him? No.


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## ibexslc (Aug 27, 2007)

Reith said:


> Yes, please , to all the haters and every one else, PLEASE do not post anything ever again and do not express your opinions about anything ever until you have won 7 Tours of France. Until you have brought it and won 7 Tours, you not only need to STFU, you need to crawl into a cave and never speak again. You might want to stop eating while you are at it at least until you have one Grand Tour victory.



And yet you don't...

To the list one could add, until you've raised $250 million for cancer treatment and research (a far more respectable accomplishment than winning 7 TdF's), STFU.

You don't respect the guy as a cyclist? You think he is a prick (as opposed to Conti!)?

Fine. 

He's back to raise awareness and money to fight cancer. He's kicking a$$ at it. Third in the tour this year is a side note to that.

If you can't respect someone for that, then you might want to go take a long look at yourself.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

As an athlete, Armstrong deserves admiration and respect. Even Contador said as much. I don't think anyone is going to argue that Armstrong is not one of the greatest, if not THE greatest, Tour riders ever.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

When Armstrong was winning Tours, he was winning ITTs. This year he got 10th and 16th. He won't win an 8th Tour.


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## orangeclymer (Aug 18, 2009)

pretender said:


> When Armstrong was winning Tours, he was winning ITTs. This year he got 10th and 16th. He won't win an 8th Tour.


yes he did exactly that however at the ripe age of 38(next year) you can bet the man has used his noodle during his successful cycling career knows younger and perhaps stronger cyclist are in his presence all the while keeping his eye on the the task at hand.........which is to say the title.............iTT's matter not to him ya get it yet!! and oh BTW he was leading/pushing his TT team this year my good fellow so i seriously doubt he would not have if he were not capable of doing so............:thumbsup:


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## PRB (Jun 15, 2002)

andy11 said:


> heathb - I think most pro athletes are there to win the biggest tournament of all as well as for money. You can't deny that. Top NFL stars won't do smaller tournaments. Imagine Barry Bonds competing in local baseball games or minor league.. that would be ridiculous.....(snip)
> 
> Now imagine Pete Sampras or Nadal or Federer or williams after so many grand slams trying to compete for a local Berlin open?!! Sounds silly unless it is for charity.
> 
> I have watched the complete tour only for 2 years, but I think tour de france is the most challenging of all and the pinnacle of cycling. Formula1 is the pinnacle of motorsport. Lets say Michael Schumacher now wants to compete in some rolex road series of ohio or something (just made up the name!), it would be ridiculous. Then everyone would be why the hell he is doing that?


Comparing the Giro or other races to "local baseball games or minor league" is pretty silly and I think it shows your lack of experience (which you admitted) with bicycle racing and the history of it. While the TdF is the best <i>known</i> race in cycling it's not always the hardest. I would venture to say that in most years the Giro is the tougher race but it doesn't have the huge publicity of the TdF.

A better analogy is that Lance only played a few ball games here and there over the course of the season and then showed up for the playoffs. His entire season was basically built around one race and it was do or die for him there. Whether his approach was good or bad for cycling overall is debatable but it certainly was a lot different than many of the Tour winners before him....and I think that was the point heathb was trying to make.

Oh, as for Schumacher....he's raced several motorcycle races as an amateur since retiring so he must not have a problem with it being ridiculous.


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## andy11 (Aug 23, 2009)

PRB - yes i do know Giro is not as popular as TDF, and i never really watched Giro. My experience watching races is limited but I did watch all stages for the past two years. I took heathB point differently though..

Yeah i do know schumi raced motorbikes before and tried that again after retirement. So that does not count as ridiculous. 

In any case TDF does not compare to Giro. Like you said, I agree Giro may be harder race or equally important, but from "mass publicity" and glitz and prestige standpoint TDF is like the pinnacle of cycling. You can't simply compare anything else to TDF. that is the one and only thing. Maybe my comparisons was not perfect, but you get the point I was trying to make.

The analogy of playing few ball games here and there and then showing up for playoffs is silly. You do not have teams competing each other in "a" league for "A" playoff spot. This is completely different and you know it. I guess there is no good comparison that would be a perfect fit here. (maybe it is like GP2 vs F1. An athlete like Lewis not racing anywhere else and coming directly to F1.. That did not happen, but even if that were to happen, and if he is talented and winning F1 races, you got to take your hats off, not complain how he did not race in GP2) To heathB's original comment, didn't Lance try Giro this time?!


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

Arguing Lance on this forum is kinda like the healthcare debate in the states right now. Most people are polarized one way or the other. There's a lot of yelling and screaming from both sides that will do little to change anyone's opinion, and yet it drags on and on and on.

Not trying to get this sent to PO, just trying to make a bad analogy.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

andy11 said:


> PRB - yes i do know Giro is not as popular as TDF, and i never really watched Giro. My experience watching races is limited but I did watch all stages for the past two years. I took heathB point differently though..
> 
> In any case TDF does not compare to Giro. Like you said, I agree Giro may be harder race or equally important, but from "mass publicity" and glitz and prestige standpoint TDF is like the pinnacle of cycling. You can't simply compare anything else to TDF. that is the one and only thing. Maybe my comparisons was not perfect, but you get the point I was trying to make.
> 
> The analogy of playing few ball games here and there and then showing up for playoffs is silly. You do not have teams competing each other in "a" league for "A" playoff spot. This is completely different and you know it. I guess there is no good comparison that would be a perfect fit here. (maybe it is like GP2 vs F1. An athlete like Lewis not racing anywhere else and coming directly to F1.. That did not happen, but even if that were to happen, and if he is talented and winning F1 races, you got to take your hats off, not complain how he did not race in GP2) To heathB's original comment, didn't Lance try Giro this time?!


Yeah Lance raced the Giro this time as he had little chance if any of winning it. I have all the WCP TDF, GIRO, Tour of Spain, Classics going back to the 90's DVD sets. Beautiful races, but for me the Giro is what hardcore cycling is all about. 

Have you seen how brutal some of those climbs are in the Giro. I've seen some of the best riders look like they were going to cry by the time they reached the finish line. They often time needed someone to catch them after they finished or they were going to fall over.

My point is that the Giro is brutally hard and yet you won't get a pat on the back from the western world for doing well in it. To do something great when no one is looking(at least in America) is the mark of real character and it also shows a true love and respect for the history of this sport. 

I always got the impression that Lance was playing it safe to avoid injury before the TDF each year. 

If he'd raced the other races each year, kept his schedule jammed packed, he probably wouldn't have been as consistant at winning the tour, but he would have gotten a lot more respect from his fellow cyclists.


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## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

andy11 said:


> PRB - yes i do know Giro is not as popular as TDF, and i never really watched Giro. My experience watching races is limited but I did watch all stages for the past two years. I took heathB point differently though..
> 
> Yeah i do know schumi raced motorbikes before and tried that again after retirement. So that does not count as ridiculous.
> 
> ...


You have no idea what you are talking about. Tennis is probably the best parallel and you will find all the stars playing in smaller tournaments, not just the big ones.

Lance has always been known for his lack of racing day, consistently skipped the worlds and nationals and never won gold in the Olympics. He cared only for the TdF in a sport with 8 months of racing.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

albert owen said:


> How is it possible to not admire Armstrong?


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Ekimov said:


> This forum rocks.
> Lance could murder someone and the people would still love him. His lawyers would just say to the judge, 'Have you won seven tours?' Well then STFU.


LOL!!!


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

kbiker3111 said:


> He was pretty damn arrogant before cancer too. IMO, the most "real" moment I ever saw out of Lance was his win at Worlds in '93. He's so giddy and overjoyed, he acts like a normal guy would.


Yeah, I remember when he first did the Tour in the early 90's. Like you said he was arrogant back then too. Phil and Paul did not like him.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

FondriestFan said:


> As an athlete, Armstrong deserves admiration and respect. Even Contador said as much. I don't think anyone is going to argue that Armstrong is not one of the greatest, if not THE greatest, Tour riders ever.


THE greatest rider ever?

No offense to his Lanceness, but I'm thinkin' it's this guy...


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

pretender said:


> I would admire Armstrong if he came clean the way Riis has.


I still wouldn't like him but I would respect him for that.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

SystemShock said:


> THE greatest rider ever?
> 
> No offense to his Lanceness, but I'm thinkin' it's this guy...


Yup. That there is the greatest cyclist ever.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

SystemShock said:


>


I love his crooked smile. Always looks like he's up to something


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## saddle tramp (Feb 22, 2006)

"It's on the mostly European forums where cycling is a way of life that I feel Lance isn't liked."

huh? 

I don't know LA from Adam but I'd say he loves the bike the same if not more than most people on the planet. That's cool by me...


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

He's still got it, too...


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## drrjgregory (Aug 20, 2008)

I agree 100% with the original poster. The Lance haters are all jealous of my - I mean his - success.

I wish they would all get off my - I mean Lance's- back and give me - um, him- a break. I - um, Lance, is clearly the best cyclist ever and a really nice guy.

Please don't let my miniscule number of posts fool you into thinking I am Lance lurking on this forum. Lance has, oops, I mean I have better things to do. Twitter for example.


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

I especially dislike how he left his wife after what she had been through with him. I DO like his accomplishments in sports and with beating and fighting cancer. I am a Lance fan despite his arrogance.


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## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

cmontery said:


> There is a difference between being a fan of Lance and being a fan of the sport. You are the former, I am the latter. Simply because I am fan of the sport I'm not a fan of Lance. The tour de france is A race and I don't care how popular it is in America - it is not THE race. Give me Flanders any time of the day. Give me the Giro with unpaved 20% uphill TT. Give me Roubaix on the worst year. This years tour was a perfect example - unacceptable route. I have more respect for Hinault winning Roubaix than Lance - even LeMond got fourth twice. Lance, Conti - they are a bore. You might feel this way too if you were to follow the sport and not the man.


Good point, I would imagine most don't even know what Flanders is.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

Henry Porter said:


> Good point, I would imagine most don't even know what Flanders is.


Duh.


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## andy11 (Aug 23, 2009)

heathb said:


> I have all the WCP TDF, GIRO, Tour of Spain, Classics going back to the 90's DVD sets. Beautiful races, but for me the Giro is what hardcore cycling is all about.
> 
> I always got the impression that Lance was playing it safe to avoid injury before the TDF each year.


Its great you have all these races in DVD sets!! Do you watch them once in a while??!

It is true he is probably playing it safe to avoid injury. Well, if you have your mind set to winning the TDF at any cost and consider that a pinnacle of cycling, then I am sure as an athlete you would go any lengths to achieve that..

After reading your comments about Giro, I can't wait to watch the race in its entirety next year. I did watch highlights and some stages this year...


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## andy11 (Aug 23, 2009)

drrjgregory said:


> I agree 100% with the original poster. The Lance haters are all jealous of my - I mean his - success.
> 
> I wish they would all get off my - I mean Lance's- back and give me - um, him- a break. I - um, Lance, is clearly the best cyclist ever and a really nice guy.
> 
> Please don't let my miniscule number of posts fool you into thinking I am Lance lurking on this forum. Lance has, oops, I mean I have better things to do. Twitter for example.


very funny..!!! lol


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## dasho (Apr 8, 2002)

I think like all of us he has some good traits and some bad. I think some of his good traits are perserverance, determination, and extreme courage.

I think his not so good traits are he is a terrible sportsman (skipping TDF party is inexcusable), selfish and arrogant. 

I think it is a shame that what was intended to be a means of getting more recognition for his Cancer Foundation fell by the wayside by the tit for tat soap opera between he and AC. I feel he lost focus on what was really important.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

dasho said:


> I think like all of us he has some good traits and some bad. I think some of his good traits are perserverance, determination, and extreme courage.
> 
> I think his not so good traits are he is a terrible sportsman (skipping TDF party is inexcusable), selfish and arrogant.
> 
> ...


 Focus. In order to even compete at that level bike racers need absolute focus. For Lance to remain relevant he needed to finish near the top...If he'd come in 101st, we wouldn't be writing about him still, right? Lance's main rival this time at the TDF WAS Contador and they were focused on each other..to win the race. We made it into a Soap Opera...They were simply being racers at the top of the game..
He's a bike racer who does give big time to his charatible causes..but he has to focus on what is really important to him and the racing is really demanding of huge focus. I find it amazing he can manage to find some time to do anything off the bike, let alone all he seems to find time for...


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Ekimov said:


> Most Americans don't know who that is.


Much like soccer, it doesn't matter if we 'mericans are ignorant of it or not... the game carries on, the best is the best, and the best-ever is Eddy. :thumbsup:
.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Moderators note.*



SwiftSolo said:


> Here we go! This will bring'em out of their shrinks offices by the handfull.


This is your last warning on the insults.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

SystemShock said:


> THE greatest rider ever?
> 
> No offense to his Lanceness, but I'm thinkin' it's this guy...


Can you not read? I said maybe the greatest TOUR rider ever.

The greatest ever is obviously Merckx.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Ekimov said:


> It's just that fans in Europe tend to understand better than Americans what it takes to win. They are more educated on the topic and more sophisticated in their views. I'm not saying that's a better way to be by the way, it's just the way things are.


New users and stereotypes- its winning combination!


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

FondriestFan said:


> Can you not read? I said maybe the greatest TOUR rider ever.
> 
> The greatest ever is obviously Merckx.


Did you mean only the TdF? 'Cuz if you're talking major tours, EM won 5 TdFs, 5 Giros, and 1 Tour of Spain.

Not tryin' to rag on ya.
.


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## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

SystemShock said:


> Did you mean only the TdF? 'Cuz if you're talking major tours, EM won 5 TdFs, 5 Giros, and 1 Tour of Spain.
> 
> Not tryin' to rag on ya.
> .


Even you are incorrect. Those are Grand Tours, EM won many other tours in his career. 

Lance is a one show act. many other riders diversified their careers. It is sad to see so little knowledge of cycling and cycling history here.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

Lance Armstrong, the Jane Fonda of the cycling world


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Ekimov said:


> Observation and most people agree with what i said, as it seems like you do.
> 
> Sorry though I'm new to this forum so I'm not sure I should be disagreeing with a mod. Some forums are sticky that way. Maybe you're cool about these things. :thumbsup:


"most people" LOL. More your opinion.

- and disagree with me all you want, (outside of moderator actions) we are all just posters who love bikes and racing. :thumbsup: 

- anytime a poster says "all euros this" or "all americans that" they are expressing their personal biases, not actual facts. All or even mostly all Euros or American never agree on _anything_. This forum is living proof of that. . .


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

California L33 said:


> Lance Armstrong, the Jane Fonda of the cycling world


This about knocked me outta my chair!


----------



## orangeclymer (Aug 18, 2009)

California L33 said:


> Lance Armstrong, the Jane Fonda of the cycling world


Not very bright are ya :ihih:


----------



## ibexslc (Aug 27, 2007)

Ekimov said:


> It's just that fans in Europe tend to understand better than Americans what it takes to win. They are more educated on the topic and more sophisticated in their views. I'm not saying that's a better way to be by the way, it's just the way things are.



Well, maybe americans better understand what I takes to raise $250 million for charity. Not as an investment banker or an industry mogul. As a cyclist. One quarter of a BILLION dollars.

Actually, I think some Europeans understand just fine. You can recognize them as the ones that were thronging the sidelines of the Giro and TDF screaming when Lance went by. The ones that wouldn't be there otherwise. The majority of Europeans by some accounts. 

Lance may not the best 'greatest cyclist ever.' I go with E.M. on that for sure. But I think he has accomplished a great deal on and off the bike and the OP (unless by now I've forgotten) asked whether or not these accomplishments deserved admiration or respect.

Haters can hate, but if they don't respect the guy then they are a bit off. Contador saying he respects Lance as a cyclist but not personally really shows his narrow view of the world.

I kind of think its cool that _ANY_ cyclist can raise that kind of money. I don't know of any other figure in sports that has had that kind of influence.


----------



## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

ibexslc said:


> One quarter of a BILLION dollars.


Thanks for the Dr Evil moment.


----------



## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

ibexslc said:


> Well, maybe americans better understand what I takes to raise $250 million for charity. Not as an investment banker or an industry mogul. As a cyclist. One quarter of a BILLION dollars.
> 
> Actually, I think some Europeans understand just fine. You can recognize them as the ones that were thronging the sidelines of the Giro and TDF screaming when Lance went by. The ones that wouldn't be there otherwise. The majority of Europeans by some accounts.
> 
> ...


I don't get why the cancer fundraising is a get out of free card.


----------



## barhopper (Aug 10, 2009)

il sogno said:


> Yup. That there is the greatest cyclist ever.



Not if your talking TDF victories.


----------



## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

Andrea138 said:


> Duh.


I set 'em up, you knock 'em down.


----------



## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

oops dbl post, sry


----------



## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

barhopper said:


> Not if your talking TDF victories.


Here's a list of just EM's 'major' wins/accomplishments:


Tour de France
Overall classification (1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1974)
Points classification (1969, 1971, 1972)
Mountain classification (1969, 1970)
Combativity award (1969, 1970, 1974, 1975)
34 individual stages (1969 -1975)

Giro d'Italia
Overall classification (1968, 1970, 1972, 1973, 1974)
Points classification (1968, 1973)
Mountain classification (1968)
24 individual stages (1968-1974)

Vuelta a España
Overall classification (1973)
Points classification (1973)
Combined classification (1973)
6 individual stages

Road Race World Championships (1967, 1971, 1974)

Milan-Sanremo (1966, 1967, 1969, 1971, 1972, 1975, 1976)

Ronde van Vlaanderen (1969, 1975)

Paris-Roubaix (1968, 1970, 1973)

Liège-Bastogne-Liège (1969, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975)

Giro di Lombardia (1971, 1972)

Super Prestige Pernod International (1969,
1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1974, 1975)

World Hour Record (1972)

Most career victories by a professional cyclist: 525.

Most victories in one season: 54.

Most stage victories in one Tour de France: 8, in 1970 and 1974 (shared with Charles Pélissier in 1930 and Freddy Maertens in 1976).

Most days with the yellow jersey in the Tour de France: 96 (Lance is at 83, if you're wondering)

Most Tour de France stage wins: 34 (Lance is at 25)

The only cyclist to have won the yellow, green and red polka-dotted jersey in the same Tour de France (1969).

Most victories in classics: 28.

Most victories in one single classic: 7 (in Milan-Sanremo).

Most Grand Tour Victories 11

Win percentage during his peak years (as a % of all races entered):

1966: 21%
1967: 23%
1968: 24%
1969: 33%
1970: 37%
1971: 45% (wins nearly half of all races entered!)
1972: 39%
1973: 37%
1974: 27%
1975: 25%



... any questions? :thumbsup: 
.


----------



## barhopper (Aug 10, 2009)

jlandry said:


> I especially dislike how he left his wife after what she had been through with him. I DO like his accomplishments in sports and with beating and fighting cancer. I am a Lance fan despite his arrogance.




Just for the record ...... Kristen met Lance several months AFTER finishing his chemotherapy.  He was diagnosed in early Oct of 96 and met her in jan of 97 and didn't begin dating until june of 97.


The two became friends in January 1997, when Kristin was working for a local advertising firm and met Lance
through her volunteer work with the foundation. At the time, Lance was only one month removed from his
chemotherapy treatments for advanced testicular cancer and still two years away from his first Tour title. 

The two started dating in June 1997 and were engaged that October. They married in May 1998 in Santa


----------



## barhopper (Aug 10, 2009)

SystemShock said:


> Here's a list of just EM's 'major' wins/accomplishments:
> 
> 
> Tour de France
> ...





Thanks for making my point. Lance Armstong is the "GREATEST" Tour de France rider EVER with 7 wins. :thumbsup:


----------



## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

barhopper said:


> Thanks for making my point. Lance Armstong is the "GREATEST" Tour de France rider EVER.


Gosh... then why doesn't he have as many TDF stage wins as EM? Or as many yellow jerseys? :idea:

And far as overall depth and breadth of wins go, complete career n' all that... let's face it, EM is what Lance wants to be when he grows up. 
.


----------



## barhopper (Aug 10, 2009)

SystemShock said:


> Gosh... then why doesn't he have as many TDF stage wins as EM? Or as many yellow jerseys? :idea:
> 
> And far as overall depth and breadth of wins go, complete career n' all that... let's face it, EM is what Lance wants to be when he grows up.
> .







No one is going to remember you for a "stage win" in the TDF ............ and the poster that originally made this claim was talking the TDF, not "overall depth and breadth of wins. " LOL

Feel free to start your own thread on the subject though.


----------



## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

SystemShock said:


> Gosh... then why doesn't he have as many TDF stage wins as EM? Or as many yellow jerseys? :idea:
> 
> And far as overall depth and breadth of wins go, complete career n' all that... let's face it, EM is what Lance wants to be when he grows up.
> .


Anyone who can't understand that Merckx is better than Armstrong doesn't deserve your time.


----------



## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Henry Porter said:


> Anyone who can't understand that Merckx is better than Armstrong doesn't deserve your time.


Yup. I think most knowledgeable ppl know that Eddy *>* Lance, and I'm not under any requirement to educate those who can't or won't get it.

Lance is certainly a great champion, but the Champion of Champions? That's EM. 

Even if we're borrowing the nickname from Coppi, a great champion in his own right.
.


----------



## barhopper (Aug 10, 2009)

Henry Porter said:


> Anyone who can't understand that Merckx is better than Armstrong doesn't deserve your time.




Your response would make sense if we were talking about the greatest cyclist of all time.....
but we're not.  

Lance holds the record for the most TDF wins ever .......... like it or not. That makes him the greatest TDF champion EVER. 
Even EM wouldn't disagree with that one. LOL


Like I said ..... start a thread about who is the greatest cyclist ever and you can have your EM heyday.


----------



## ibexslc (Aug 27, 2007)

Henry Porter said:


> I don't get why the cancer fundraising is a get out of free card.


Get out of what free? Not being a nice guy? Failing at marriage? Not racing the Giro?

In the first place, we were talking respect, not forgiveness for something.

You don't respect and individual with that level of commitment and that degree of success in fighting cancer? 

On the other hand, I would argue that he has earned a fair bit of forgiveness for past 'a-holiness,' which seems to be the most serious charge leveled in this thread.

He didn't play so nice. He's since matured and more than made up for it.


----------



## iamnotfilip (Jul 9, 2007)

barhopper said:


> No one is going to remember you for a "stage win" in the TDF


Wait were you the cycling fan or the Lance fan, I now have you guys confused...


----------



## iamnotfilip (Jul 9, 2007)

barhopper said:


> Just for the record ...... Kristen met Lance several months AFTER finishing his chemotherapy.  He was diagnosed in early Oct of 96 and met her in jan of 97 and didn't begin dating until june of 97.
> 
> 
> The two became friends in January 1997, when Kristin was working for a local advertising firm and met Lance
> ...


I heard Lance is hiring some guys to boost his image on the net... apparently some sponsors SOMEHOW got the idea that a lot of hard-core cyclists don't like him, so his PR firm is suggesting this.


----------



## Fltplan (Feb 27, 2009)

I like Lance's attitude. He knows how to deal with all of the haters. He's got the attitude to deal with the adversity, he's got the money, which you don't have and finally, he's got the legs to squash you all. Peace.


----------



## iamnotfilip (Jul 9, 2007)

orangeclymer said:


> _*Quote:
> Originally Posted by California L33*
> Lance Armstrong, the Jane Fonda of the cycling world_
> 
> Not very bright are ya





ibexslc said:


> Contador saying he respects Lance as a cyclist but not personally really shows his narrow view of the world.


Am I the only one to see the irony in the above two posts.

ok, ok, I admit, I am jelaus of all the attention these newcomers are getting with these posts...


----------



## iamnotfilip (Jul 9, 2007)

Fltplan said:


> He's got the attitude to deal with the adversity, he's got the money, which you don't have and finally, he's got the legs to squash you all.


But there is no concrete evidence to prove this, you are just going on what other people are saying or thinking about him. Until he beats us all in a race mano y mano, your argument is just opinion which a lot of people here won't buy into.


----------



## ibexslc (Aug 27, 2007)

iamnotfilip said:


> Am I the only one to see the irony in the above two posts.
> 
> ok, ok, I admit, I am jelaus of all the attention these newcomers are getting with these posts...


Ok, maybe you'll have to spell it out for us all.

Saying there is 'irony' in a post (seems to be coming up repeatedly) is not really the same as making an argument. Neither is showing a picture with a hand to a forehead.

Use your words....

No more 'STFU's' and no more 'thats ironic.'


----------



## Fltplan (Feb 27, 2009)

You guys are hillarious. The guy runs a multi-million dollar charity, a multi-million dollar company and races bikes succesfully. Before you're critical of everything Lance, list your accomplishments, good and bad, and we'll fire away at your life. C'mon, now let's see it. It's so funny to hear all of this. Must be an internet thing. You guys must be the biggest jerks to hang out with. Unless you're a little quieter in person. Imagine that!


----------



## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

In regards to this entire thread, I stand by my original statement...












Edit: except for Henry Porter's posts.


----------



## Fltplan (Feb 27, 2009)

Andrea138 said:


> In regards to this entire thread, I stand by my original statement...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Let's put your life under the microscope and see what we can find. Maybe a little competive and/or maybe not perfect. C'mon, give it a rest. Do something productive with your time.


----------



## iamnotfilip (Jul 9, 2007)

ibexslc said:


> Ok, maybe you'll have to spell it out for us all.
> 
> No more 'STFU's' and no more 'thats ironic.'


Fair enough, I didn't mean to sound condescending 

I thought the Jane Fonda comment was somewhat witty, and from the comment "Not very bright, are you", it sounded like the poster did not understand the intent of the joke...

The second one, you are saying that because Contador respects Lance as a rider but not as a person makes him have a narrow view of the world... So what, everyone has to like Lance personally? That sounds like a narrow-minded view of the world to me. Remember, we are talking about someone who spent three weeks with Lance on a grand tour (so being together in the bus, team meetings, hotels, meals, peloton) not just a somoenoe talking out of his ass.


----------



## iamnotfilip (Jul 9, 2007)

Fltplan said:


> Let's put your life under the microscope and see what we can find. Maybe a little competive and/or maybe not perfect. C'mon, give it a rest. Do something productive with your time.


But that's not what this thread is all about, is it, and we don't want to hijack Lance's thread.

Sorry, I have about 10 more minutes to kill, and I read the entire interweb and there's nothing left for me to do... 

I was just trying to inject some humour into this, so none of my posts above are to be taken seriously.


----------



## ibexslc (Aug 27, 2007)

iamnotfilip said:


> The second one, you are saying that because Contador respects Lance as a rider but not as a person makes him have a narrow view of the world... So what, everyone has to like Lance personally? That sounds like a narrow-minded view of the world to me.



No, Conti said he didn't _respect_ him as a person. That he didn't like him personally is obvious and irrelevant. Conti's a whiner.

Lance has achieved far more off the bike than 'as a cyclist' as has been said. Conti is showing that he can only respect someone in the narrow world of cycling. In that little world, he respects that Lance has won 7 TdFs, but not that he doesn't buff his ego on the bus, or whatever.

Lance may not be likable on tour. Who knows. Who cares. He commands respect on and especially off the bike.


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## BurnsRubber (Jul 17, 2009)

I'm wondering if we have overlooked how big of an impact Lance has had on pro cycling, the Tour de France, in the United States in particular, and the world for that matter, before and after his well known cancer comeback? Would the Tour de France be nearly as well known in the US today without Lance?

The analogy is, an American racing driver coming in to Formula 1, winning several championships in a row, captivating his country and putting the spotlight on great sport that would otherwise be unknown to the general public in the US.

I'm relatively new to the sport, I can honestly say I probably would not have known about the Tour de France had it not been for Lance Armstrong. I may not have even discovered the sport. I’m sure my story is true for many others. You cycling ‘elitist’ jumping at the opportunity to bad mouth Lance, please remember to keep these points in perspective.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Fltplan said:


> Do something productive with your time.


it's a forum, almost per definition a waste of time. Yours and ours.


----------



## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

SystemShock said:


> Here's a list of just EM's 'major' wins/accomplishments:


As familiar as I am with bike racing and EM, it's pretty f-ing jawdropping to see all those stats at once. They don't make hyperbole big enough to adequately describe what a monster he was.


----------



## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Fltplan said:


> I like Lance's attitude. He knows how to deal with all of the haters. He's got the attitude to deal with the adversity, he's got the money, which you don't have and finally, he's got the legs to squash you all. Peace.


Yabbut he ain't got the legs to quash Contador or Schleck.


----------



## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

andy11 said:


> I admire Lance Armstrong. Do you?


No, I do not.


----------



## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

DrRoebuck said:


> As familiar as I am with bike racing and EM, it's pretty f-ing jawdropping to see all those stats at once.
> 
> They don't make hyperbole big enough to adequately describe what a monster he was.


Yep. Eddy came, he saw, and he conquered... and he conquered ALL of it. 

Just awe-inspiring, by any measure.


----------



## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Fltplan said:


> I like Lance's attitude. He knows how to deal with all of the haters. He's got the attitude to deal with the adversity, he's got the money, which you don't have and finally, he's got the legs to squash you all. Peace.


Augh.









Translation of the above: If someone's rich or good at what they do, they're beyond reproach, their bowel movements smell like fresh-baked cinnamon rolls, and everyone must love them or else they're a 'hater'. Even if the criticizer is rich and successful too.

By the above thinking, Bill Gates is a supreme being. No, THE supreme being. How can you not worship Bill Gates? He's so very rich n' successful, dontcha know!  

Stinkin' thinkin' like that just makes the other side want to rub it in more. Or turns fence-sitters into Lance-dislikers.

As in, "Armstrong? Is that French for EPO, or is it Belgian for 'I'd be Eddy's domestique if I'd ridden in the '70s?' " :lol:

Call me crazy, but I don't know if the "you're all just haters!" angle is a real winner for Lance, PR-wise. There's gotta be a better way.
.


----------



## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

SystemShock said:


> Augh.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In fact his name is Lance Gunderson

Lance Armstrong seems to be a "brand name" created by Trek and Nike to market their products through him 

In fact he is sucessful in what he did, he focused on only one event, the one that gets most media attention around the world, prepared and raced only on that, had a team of superdomestiques only to carry him to the end of the race.

and doing so he got full media attention, big sponsor deals and made a lot of money.

He also draw cycing to the american mainstream and attention to the cancer research and care.


What don't like is that he brought the wrong attitude to an sport that is ( at least here in Europe ) out of place.

See , in Europe, cycling is a massively popular sport, we have cyclists everywhere and a full network of cycling roads and facilities.

The second largest massive popular sport in the world ( just seccond to football what you americans call soccer).

Pro cyclists race through all towns, mixing with the people that don't need to pay a ticket to see them, they are for the most part humble and close to the people and they are admired and loved by cyclists all around Europe.

Their teams live of sponsoring and for the most part they earn a decent living.

But "Armstrong", brough to the sport, the bodyguards, the big money, the celebrity entourage, the arrogant jerk attitude that are so strange to this sport, that could be ok in NFL, Nascar, NBA or boxing or even soccer, but not in cycling.

Also what we dislike is that he dismissed the rest of the cycling calendar, to fulfill the money-driven focus on the TDF only.

I have much more respect for a cyclist that competes all along the cycling calendar, run the classics, and win the world championships.

I've met and shaken hands with 3 world champions and they were cool and warm people, no need of bodyguards or a movie star around them. 

Those are real cyclists in my book


----------



## orangeclymer (Aug 18, 2009)

^^ i beg to differ on all fronts.


----------



## andy11 (Aug 23, 2009)

maximus- actually you do not know what you are talking about. YOU seem to have missed the point of this thread. So what he mainly cared about TDF? many athletes care for a specific title in a given sport.. You really DO NOT know what lance "really" cares about. You can sit here and speculate all you want as if you spoke with him.. maybe he is in it for raising awareness for the cancer foundation. It is "HIM" who survived cancer, you probably have no idea what it was like, and what motivates him really. Money is ofcourse parrt of it and you cant blame anyone for it. This is about admiring him and your argument of him just not racing other races doesn't make sense. I would admire nadal or federer for playing and winning those 4 grand slams even if they don't play say berlin open or canada's montreal open..


----------



## PRB (Jun 15, 2002)

Salsa_Lover said:


> In fact his name is Lance Gunderson.....(snip)....
> 
> Also what we dislike is that he dismissed the rest of the cycling calendar, to fulfill the money-driven focus on the TDF only.
> 
> ...


Nice post and I agree 100%. I guess I'm just a hater.


----------



## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Ekimov said:


> Hope you see the problem with your post.:thumbsup:


No but I hope I expressed the sentiment that when you try to classify something as Americans do this or Euro's do that it never is correct, and rather an expression of personal belief rather than actual fact. 

Although if you said most Americans live in the United States, that would be factually correct. . .


----------



## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Fltplan said:


> You guys are hillarious. The guy runs a multi-million dollar charity, a multi-million dollar company and races bikes succesfully. Before you're critical of everything Lance, list your accomplishments, good and bad, and we'll fire away at your life. C'mon, now let's see it. It's so funny to hear all of this. Must be an internet thing. You guys must be the biggest jerks to hang out with. Unless you're a little quieter in person. Imagine that!


Take some deep breaths. This is the Internet- serious business, I know.

But please remember, everyone has haters on the internet. _Everyone_. Every major bike racer and team does- except Jens Voigt, because hating Jens would be stupid. 

You are not going to change their opinion, and they are not going to change yours. So no sense getting too worked up about it.


----------



## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Moderators Note*

Everyone remember to: (a) play nice with each other (no personal attacks); (b) keep your doping thoughts for the Doping Forum, and (c) remember this is the Internet- Serious Business. Still open for a third record breaking day!


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Salsa_Lover said:


> In fact his name is Lance Gunderson.


Yah, I know. But if you start talking about 'Lance Edward Gunderson', ppl are like, "WTH? Who's that??". 

Liked your post... it's good to get the Euro perspective.
.


----------



## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Fltplan said:


> Let's put your life under the microscope and see what we can find. Maybe a little competive and/or maybe not perfect. C'mon, give it a rest. Do something productive with your time.


Andrea is state champion. 'Nuff said. :thumbsup:


----------



## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

barhopper said:


> Your response would make sense if we were talking about the greatest cyclist of all time.....
> but we're not.
> 
> Lance holds the record for the most TDF wins ever .......... like it or not. That makes him the greatest TDF champion EVER.
> ...


To base the best ever off whomever has won the most is a bit too simplistic. It negates the punch and tactics at the time of EM.


----------



## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

Fltplan said:


> Let's put your life under the microscope and see what we can find. Maybe a little competive and/or maybe not perfect. C'mon, give it a rest. Do something productive with your time.


I would venture that becoming an MD is productive, no?


----------



## snosaw (May 30, 2006)

wipeout said:


> I like beer


Me too!


----------



## ti-triodes (Aug 14, 2006)

:lol: Good one!


Wow, another Lance war. :mad2: 

Think I'll go for a ride.


----------



## barhopper (Aug 10, 2009)

Henry Porter said:


> To base the best ever off whomever has won the most is a bit too simplistic. It negates the punch and tactics at the time of EM.




It's like the Olympics...... the one with the most gold medals at the Olympics is considered the best. It is as simple as that. I'm talking Tour ....... not overall. Sheesh !!! :mad2:

I bet there's someone out there who has won more races than Michael Phelps too. LOL


----------



## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

andy11 said:


> maximus- actually you do not know what you are talking about. YOU seem to have missed the point of this thread. So what he mainly cared about TDF? many athletes care for a specific title in a given sport.. You really DO NOT know what lance "really" cares about. You can sit here and speculate all you want as if you spoke with him.. maybe he is in it for raising awareness for the cancer foundation. It is "HIM" who survived cancer, you probably have no idea what it was like, and what motivates him really. Money is ofcourse parrt of it and you cant blame anyone for it. This is about admiring him and your argument of him just not racing other races doesn't make sense. I would admire nadal or federer for playing and winning those 4 grand slams even if they don't play say berlin open or canada's montreal open..


I think Lance has made it pretty clear on what he cares about.

My argument of of him not racing other races does not make sense to you because you are not a cycling fan, you are a TdF fan. I do admire his wins but I do not admire him for the way he conducts himself as a cyclist and teammate. I also do not admire the fact that he has little respect for the cycling calendar other than July. I say that as a cycling fan. I do get the point of the thread, I just disagree. One can admire a person's achievments without admiring the person. The Badger is a great example of that.

If Lance were a tennis player, he would only play Wimbledon, not any of the other slams. Please take some time to get your analogies correct.

I have not ever had to fight serious cancer. Many people have done that and lived, many more have done that and not lived. Lance beat cancer and that is inspirational to those who are fighting for their lives or have loved ones that are doing so. This is exactly why there will always be those who are passionate about their love for Lance.

The Lance Armstrong Foundation is about survivorship, not about actually fighting cancer.

A site about celebrities and charity:

http://www.looktothestars.org/


----------



## wsriii (May 23, 2006)

andy11 said:


> I think anyone who is passionate about cycling, will find it hard not to admire Lance. Agree?


No....


----------



## barhopper (Aug 10, 2009)

Maximus_XXIV said:


> I think Lance has made it pretty clear on what he cares about.
> 
> My argument of of him not racing other races does not make sense to you because you are not a cycling fan, you are a TdF fan. I do admire his wins but I do not admire him for the way he conducts himself as a cyclist and teammate. I also do not admire the fact that he has little respect for the cycling calendar other than July. I say that as a cycling fan. I do get the point of the thread, I just disagree. One can admire a person's achievments without admiring the person. The Badger is a great example of that.
> 
> ...








Founded and chaired by world-famous cyclist and cancer survivor Lance Armstrong, the LAF is aimed at raising awareness, funding research and ending the stigma of cancer that many survivors face.


How would you "fight" Cancer ?


----------



## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

I wonder how much they fund research. They are heavily focused on survivorship but are doing much more advocacy for spending on research and care. I consider research and care as fighting cancer. I stand corrected.


----------



## barhopper (Aug 10, 2009)

Maximus_XXIV said:


> I wonder how much they fund research. They are heavily focused on survivorship but are doing much more advocacy for spending on research and care. I consider research and care as fighting cancer. I stand corrected.








:thumbsup:


----------



## DI75 (Oct 6, 2007)

takl23 said:


> I've loved Lance for a long time. If he's doing a comeback to really help promote cancer great. But one thing is for sure, Le Tour is too hard to just say hey, I feel like riding it this year. Part of me thinks he feel that he left too early.
> 
> Bottom line is, you only get one shot in life and he is very close to the end of his cycling rope to do much else. As long as he doesn't retire and keep coming back 2 or 3 times, no worries.
> 
> ...


Lance Armstrong has done more good works with his cancer foundation than most of us combined.....Let's appreciate that...the rest doesn't really matter. He is 37 years old and just finished 3rd in the TDF. Dope free..Wonder how he would have finished, if he was, lets say, 24-34 years old? Oh that's right...1st !!:idea:


----------



## andy11 (Aug 23, 2009)

barhopper said:


> Founded and chaired by world-famous cyclist and cancer survivor Lance Armstrong, the LAF is aimed at raising awareness, funding research and ending the stigma of cancer that many survivors face.
> 
> 
> How would you "fight" Cancer ?


Well said.. barbopper..

Maximus - I agree.. people who have faced cancer directly or indirectly are more emotional and attached and passionate about Lance. But when I say "to admire a person" - it is mostly about what the person has done in his life. His actions. There are public figures who have done great things, yet their personal life/ personality is not so great. But Lance being so competitive, having gone through cancer, being such a great athlete winning tours, working to fight cancer - all these actions make him admirable. (BTW, half the battle is raising awareness.) Research and funding are other things. Commitement and getting people involved is crucial to the success. You need a great deal of psychological strength to get through a disease like that. You need the support of fellow human beings. Like you admitted, you have not witnessed it firsthand, you would not understand, "that" (survival) itself is a bigger challenge.

Regarding parellels, you do not seem to understand Tennis well. It IS NOT like playing wimbledon and leaving other slams out. Wimbledon is never such a pinnacle compared to Roland Garros. It depends on who you ask. All the four slams are equally important for most tennis players, with wimbledon being the icing on the cake. It is little more prestigeous than the rest. thats all. To say, players not competing in other slams, but just on wimbledon is not an apt comparision. I have been watching all slams for the past 20 years closely and I do know something about tennis and what players say and feel about winning grand slam.

Now, I am a TDF fan. I agree. But that does not mean I am not a cycling fan. I haven't been following cycling for loooong time like some of you guys, but Lance did win other races and he did participate on them as well. It is just that for him TDF is the ultimate challenge and the publicity/money maker etc. so he is going at it. Come on at 38, finishing on the podium after 7 wins, and surviving cancer. give him a break!!

* Seven times winner of the Tour de France (1999-2005)
* World road champion, 1992
* Tour de Suisse, 2001
* Dauphine Libere, 2002 and 2003
* U.S. professional road race, 1993
* Classica San Sebastian, 1995
* Fléche Wallone, 1996


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## andy11 (Aug 23, 2009)

If you look at his early career, he did participate on other races and had wins and very impressive results. As the athlete grows and gets popular, his priorities change and he focuses on fewer and more prestigious/popular races that make him the most money! Whats wrong with that!!


1992
First Union Grand Prix
GP Sanson
Longsjo Classic (1 stage win)
Thrift Drug Classic
Tour de Ribera (4 stage wins)

1993
Thrift Drug Classic
Trofeo Laigueglia
8th stage of the Tour de France
USPro Championship
West Virginia Classic (2 stage wins)
World Road Championships

1994
Thrift Drug Classic

1995
Clasica San Sebastian
18th stage of the Tour de France
Tour du Pont (3 stage wins)
West Virginia Classic (1 stage win)
Stage 5 Paris Nice

1996
Tour du Pont (5 stage wins)
La Flèche Wallonne 

1998
Rheinland-Pfalz Rundfahrt
Tour de Luxembourg (1 stage win)
Cascade Classic

1999
Tour de France (4 stage wins)
Prologue Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré (ITT)
Stage 4 Route du Sud
Stage 4 Circuit de la Sarthe (ITT)

2000
Tour de France (1 stage win)
GP des Nations
GP Eddy Merckx
Stage 3 Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré (ITT)
Bronze medal in the 2000 Summer Olympics Individual Time Trial, Men

2001
Tour de France (4 stage wins)
Tour de Suisse (2 stage wins) 

2002
Tour de France (4 stage wins)
Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré, Stage 6 Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré
GP du Midi-Libre

2003
Tour de France (1 stage win and the Team Time Trial)
Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré (Overall), Stage 3 Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré (ITT)

2004
Tour de France (5 stage wins and the Team Time Trial)
Tour de Georgia (2 stage wins)
Stage 5 Tour du Languedoc-Roussillon
Stage 4 Volta ao Algrave (ITT)

2005
Tour de France (1 stage win and the Team Time Trial)

2009
TDF podium

I think this year he finished 12th at the Giro.


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## orangeclymer (Aug 18, 2009)

DI75 said:


> Lance Armstrong has done more good works with his cancer foundation than most of us combined.....Let's appreciate that...the rest doesn't really matter. He is 37 years old and just finished 3rd in the TDF. Dope free..Wonder how he would have finished, if he was, lets say, 24-34 years old? Oh that's right...1st !!:idea:



Not only finish 1st but what IF he had used PED's then what??

Some very key points here for those that have made ASSumptions about him being dirty (PED's) without having a shred of evidence other than a guess just to stir up false garbage about a superior athelete that performed DOPE FREE..........why is it the man isn't capable of such feats during his career without them???????? instead of the 'oh he's dirty' mentality.


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## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

andy11 said:


> Well said.. barbopper..
> 
> Maximus - I agree.. people who have faced cancer directly or indirectly are more emotional and attached and passionate about Lance. But when I say "to admire a person" - it is mostly about what the person has done in his life. His actions. There are public figures who have done great things, yet their personal life/ personality is not so great. But Lance being so competitive, having gone through cancer, being such a great athlete winning tours, working to fight cancer - all these actions make him admirable. (BTW, half the battle is raising awareness.) Research and funding are other things. Commitement and getting people involved is crucial to the success. You need a great deal of psychological strength to get through a disease like that. You need the support of fellow human beings. Like you admitted, you have not witnessed it firsthand, you would not understand, "that" (survival) itself is a bigger challenge.
> 
> ...


So Wimbledon is just like the rest but it's just more prestiogous than the rest, you're right it's nothing like the TdF and the other Grand tours.


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## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

orangeclymer said:


> Not only finish 1st but what IF he had used PED's then what??
> 
> Some very key points here for those that have made ASSumptions about him being dirty (PED's) without having a shred of evidence other than a guess just to stir up false garbage about a superior athelete that performed DOPE FREE..........why is it the man isn't capable of such feats during his career without them???????? instead of the 'oh he's dirty' mentality.


There is plenty of evidence that he doped but obviously you're not interested in doing a bit of research into what it is (hint do a search it's been posted a million times). Sure it may not be conclusive but to write there isn't a shred of evidence is just ignorant.


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## grrrah (Jul 22, 2005)

Henry Porter said:


> So Wimbledon is just like the rest but it's just more prestiogous than the rest, you're right it's nothing like the TdF and the other Grand tours.


Dude, common sense. 

How taxing would be on a tennis player's body/season to compete in all four grand slams? How about on a cyclist's season to compete in all the classics and all 3 grand tours?

To make that comparison, you are stretching a long way.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

grrrah said:


> Dude, common sense.
> 
> How taxing would be on a tennis player's body/season to compete in all four grand slams? How about on a cyclist's season to compete in all the classics and all 3 grand tours?
> 
> To make that comparison, you are stretching a long way.


This thread is too stupid for me to put a serious response here, but look up the records of other great champions, they all won other grand tours.


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## orangeclymer (Aug 18, 2009)

Henry Porter said:


> There is plenty of evidence that he doped but obviously you're not interested in doing a bit of research into what it is (hint do a search it's been posted a million times). Sure it may not be conclusive but to write there isn't a shred of evidence is just ignorant.



as ignorant as your post frankly...............obviously your not interested in the fact because its posted in this or others sites DOES NOT MAKE IT SO!! point being for those that open their pieholes out of pure stupidity without the verified proof should zip it.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

orangeclymer said:


> Not only finish 1st but what IF he had used PED's then what??
> 
> Some very key points here for those that have made ASSumptions about him being dirty (PED's) without having a shred of evidence other than a guess just to stir up false garbage about a superior athelete that performed DOPE FREE..........why is it the man isn't capable of such feats during his career without them???????? instead of the 'oh he's dirty' mentality.


Take the doping discussion elsewhere. There is a whole forum dedicated to Lance fans proclaiming his innocence and Lance haters getting banned.


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## orangeclymer (Aug 18, 2009)

SilasCL said:


> Take the doping discussion elsewhere. There is a whole forum dedicated to Lance fans proclaiming his innocence and Lance haters getting banned.


this thread is about LA correct?? thank you.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

orangeclymer said:


> this thread is about LA correct?? thank you.


No, it's about Lance Armstrong. Here's a thread about LA...

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=185563


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

orangeclymer said:


> as ignorant as your post frankly...............obviously your not interested in the fact because its posted in this or others sites DOES NOT MAKE IT SO!!
> 
> point being for those that open their pieholes out of pure stupidity without the verified proof should zip it.


 Orange, please to get a grip. Someone is *gasp* _disagreeing with you on the Internet._ 

Believe it or not, this sort of thing _does_ happen from time to time. No call for losing it and resorting to personal attacks. Henry's a good guy, really.

To be fair, Henry could've used a different word than 'ignorant' as well.
.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Moderators Note*



orangeclymer said:


> as ignorant as your post frankly...............obviously your not interested in the fact because its posted in this or others sites DOES NOT MAKE IT SO!! point being for those that open their pieholes out of pure stupidity without the verified proof should zip it.


Knock off the personal attacks. Please carefully read the posting guidelines prior to posting on RBR again. Next time its a posting vacation.

Locked


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Moderators Note*



Henry Porter said:


> There is plenty of evidence that he doped but obviously you're not interested in doing a bit of research into what it is (hint do a search it's been posted a million times). Sure it may not be conclusive but to write there isn't a shred of evidence is just ignorant.


Please reading the sticky and the post on Doping thoughts again- you seem to be confused. Next doping hijack is a posting vacation.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Moderators Note*



SilasCL said:


> Take the doping discussion elsewhere. There is a whole forum dedicated to Lance fans proclaiming his innocence and Lance haters getting banned.


Actually those engaged in personal attacks in violation of the posting guidelines getting banned- take the hint, its your last one.


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