# Average Speed



## Teo (Aug 10, 2004)

I’m wondering what is a good average speed for a novice rider?

I only get out on Sundays for a 25 to 30 mile ride on a pretty flat road. I ride alone and try not to stop accept for red lights of course. My computer says I average about 15.5 miles and hour over my entire ride. Is this good? I would think not very. 

What do you guys average?


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## Urb (Jul 19, 2010)

You're fine. Anything between 15-17 is normal for a novice rider. You'll get faster as you ride more. The faster guys in my area are +25 mph for a flat 25 - 30 miles.


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## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

You're doing fine. Just keep riding.
You can only improve so much riding one day a week.


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## locustfist (Feb 21, 2009)

I wouldn't get too hung up on average speed as it doesn't speak to very many variables that have an effect on the effort. Yes, it can be useful as a gage to how you're doing, but don't worry about it too much.

Things like wind, climbs, descents, changes in road surface, stop lights or riding with other riders; to name a few.


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## nravanelli (Jul 16, 2012)

It all depends on your goals... if you want to be fast, you gotta push past your norms and allow for appropriate recovery.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Keep in mind that avg speed really only applies to time trialing. Road races and crits are often about the surges of speeding up and slowing down.

That being said, on flat courses, you probably need to build a little more fitness and speed. The effort it takes to hold sub 16mph is probably not enough effort to hold wheels in a race.


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## ScottsSupersix (Mar 25, 2012)

I am also a novice rider, bought my first bike last September. I started out at 14.7mph average over 20 miles. 9 months later, I can hold 19.5 solo over 40 miles, 20.5 over 60 miles with a group. I average 150 miles a week now, so you must put your miles in to get to this level. You have to be committed to cycling to become a faster rider, at least at my age!


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I live in a city and I have to get through a certain number of intersections and MUPs before I can open the throttle. So, as others have said, I don't look at my averages.

If you want to get a little better picture, identify a route, or a couple of routes, that don't make you stop and start a lot. Clock yourself on those. In a month or so, do it again. I bet you find you're faster.

I've been getting a kick out of strava.com for this kind of thing. I was never that good at hitting the right buttons at the right times to collect TT data on myself.


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## clones2 (Jun 26, 2012)

I have 2 loops that I ride over and over again. One is 20miles - One is 10 miles. I start and stop in the same place, and there aren't any stops during the rides.

Using your time and avg speed is a great way to at least see if you are improving or not. I started riding at the end of last summer and was around 17.5mph for rides of 20 miles and under... Upgraded my bike and wheels this year, and with more training... I'm over 20mph avg consistently on fairly flat or rolling courses of 20 miles. 

You should see a noticeable improvement in a few months just riding with a moderate to high intensity and getting in base miles.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

clones2 said:


> I have 2 loops that I ride over and over again. One is 20miles - One is 10 miles. I start and stop in the same place, and there aren't any stops during the rides.
> Using your time and avg speed is a great way to at least see if you are improving or not. I started riding at the end of last summer and was around 17.5mph for rides of 20 miles and under... Upgraded my bike and wheels this year, and with more training... I'm over 20mph avg consistently on fairly flat or rolling courses of 20 miles.
> You should see a noticeable improvement in a few months just riding with a moderate to high intensity and getting in base miles.


The OP should do this. It's best for him to compare himself to himself as there are too many variables to compare himself to others. I have a 30 mile out & back route that I've used for years for this purpose but it's best not to get obsessed by it. Once in a while (say every month) it's ok to do a trial ride. 

I'll give him some very rough benchmark speeds that are *arguably close*. This is true average ride speed and not a speed seen lots during a ride.

12-15mph. Ok newby speeds.
16-18mph. Ok speeds for recreational riders who ride fairly often and seriously. Ok for old geezers who try hard (like me).
18-20mph. You have to get serious to get into this zone.
20-23mph. Training ride pace for racers.
22-25mph. Race pace for racers - time trials or road races.
25+mph. Race pace for top racers.


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## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

Wow, fast people here!!!

I'm a Masters Cat 3 and was on the podium at MTB nationals. 

Seems like I just spend a lot of hours mostly averaging around 17mph. I integrate intervals as well, but the ride average always go back to 17mph at the end.


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## whiterabbit05 (Oct 30, 2009)

Mike T. said:


> 12-15mph. Ok newby speeds.
> 16-18mph. Ok speeds for recreational riders who ride fairly often and seriously. Ok for old geezers who try hard (like me).
> 18-20mph. You have to get serious to get into this zone.
> 20-23mph. Training ride pace for racers.
> ...


Seems pretty accurate to me based on how I got to the "22-25 mph race pace" category above, YMMV based on all variables.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

whiterabbit05 said:


> Seems pretty accurate to me based on how I got to the "22-25 mph race pace" category above, YMMV based on all variables.


Actually the center 4 are based on what I could do a few decades back when I raced  And I was about as average as anyone  And the 2nd one is what I do now, in my mid-60s.


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## whiterabbit05 (Oct 30, 2009)

^huh? I don't understand the rolling eyes?


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

The people on the internet are not the same people you find out on the road. 


The internet people are much faster, just ask them.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

whiterabbit05 said:


> ^huh? I don't understand the rolling eyes?


If you're referring to my rolly eyes it was because I was quite average even though I tried my best.


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## wtfbbq (Apr 5, 2012)

Poncharelli said:


> Wow, fast people here!!!
> 
> I'm a Masters Cat 3 and was on the podium at MTB nationals.
> 
> Seems like I just spend a lot of hours mostly averaging around 17mph. I integrate intervals as well, but the ride average always go back to 17mph at the end.


I hear ya. If I do intervals, the riding before, after, and between kills any averages. When I am recovering, I'm not going very fast. And if I want to do a nice long ride, there are enough hills that they kill the averages.

Shoot, I averaged 18.5 the other day and thought I must not have been recovering enough.

I really only race cyclocross and short track mountain bike -- and single speed at that -- so I have no useful racing category information for comparison. But just to say that average speed means squat to me. I can see that some might find it interesting though.

Disclaimer: Chasing average speed can lead to ignoring traffic control devices and I highly advise obeying traffic law (in most circumstances).


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

tihsepa said:


> The people on the internet are not the same people you find out on the road.
> 
> 
> The internet people are much faster, just ask them.


Very well could be. 

Part of the problem with average speed is that it doesn't tell ya a whole lot. Everyone and their cousin claims that they can average 20mph for ~40 mile solo rides with ease. Fibbing aside, it might be easy to do this on a pan flat ride with no wind. Pan flat and no wind aren't something I routinely get to experience. 

On my lumpy route with a 10-20mph south wind, maintaining 20mph for 40 miles took a hell of a lot of energy and a hell of a good day with my legs. According to my power meter, it was a higher avg wattage than most races. I regret that this peak wasn't at more of a useful time in relation to any races.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

spade2you said:


> Part of the problem with average speed is that it doesn't tell ya a whole lot.


I find it useful when used in the right context (as I mentioned in an earlier post) especially as a relative indicator to one's own progress.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Mike T. said:


> I'll give him some very rough benchmark speeds that are *arguably close*. This is true average ride speed and not a speed seen lots during a ride.
> 
> 12-15mph. Ok newby speeds.
> 16-18mph. Ok speeds for recreational riders who ride fairly often and seriously. Ok for old geezers who try hard (like me).
> ...


What mileage do you base this on?
Flat, rolling, hilly?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

tlg said:


> What mileage do you base this on?
> Flat, rolling, hilly?


When I based it on "very rough benchmark speeds that are arguably close" it would have to be average miles on average terrain wouldn't it?


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Mike T. said:


> When I based it on "very rough benchmark speeds that are arguably close" it would have to be average miles on average terrain wouldn't it?


What's average miles on average terrain? Are you basing it on the OP's 25-30 mile flat rides?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Mike T. said:


> I find it useful when used in the right context (as I mentioned in an earlier post) especially as a relative indicator to one's own progress.


Relatively speaking, sure. The variable wind conditions in my area can really change an average speed somethin' fierce! This was one of the many reasons I got a power meter.


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## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

wtfbbq said:


> I hear ya. If I do intervals, the riding before, after, and between kills any averages. When I am recovering, I'm not going very fast. And if I want to do a nice long ride, there are enough hills that they kill the averages.
> 
> Shoot, I averaged 18.5 the other day and thought I must not have been recovering enough.


Yup. Also the end-of-ride cool down, which is the most important part of a ride. "Feathers on the pedals" for that (as well as inbetween intervals). 

Once you really start training, then average speeds go out the window. Those long SST type rides (which produces great average speeds) are good for when you have little overall training time, but when done solely, results in a lot of weaknesses which are important to racing (sprint, AC, VO2max efforts, and *especially* leg speed). 

When you're on larger training volume (which is usually a better plan), Zone 2 is where you spend a lot of your riding time, and you're not going to produce a lot of speed in zone 2.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

tlg said:


> What's average miles on average terrain? Are you basing it on the OP's 25-30 mile flat rides?


If you can't decide what "average" is then I'll give you my version of it, which might not compare with your version - 20 to 70 miles on flattish to rolling terrain with the occasional hill that takes 39/25. How's that?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

spade2you said:


> Relatively speaking, sure. The variable wind conditions in my area can really change an average speed somethin' fierce!


Ahhh I'm smart enough to compare apples to apples.



> This was one of the many reasons I got a power meter.


I would too if I felt the benefit would be worth it. And it's not so average speed is the best gauge for me.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Mike T. said:


> If you can't decide what "average" is then I'll give you *my version of it*, which might not compare with your version - 20 to 70 miles on flattish to rolling terrain with the occasional hill that takes 39/25. How's that?


Was it necessary to get all snarky about it? 
If you read what I originaly asked.... "What mileage do *you *base this on?"
I was merely interested what your definition of average was.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Mike T. said:


> Ahhh I'm smart enough to compare apples to apples.


I wasn't so bright. It took me a while.  Sadly, my best 40k TT was assisted by a favorable shift in wind, which has NEVER happened before or since then.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

tlg said:


> Was it necessary to get all snarky about it?
> If you read what I originaly asked.... "What mileage do *you *base this on?"
> I was merely interested what your definition of average was.


When I originally wrote "average" it was meant to be all encompassing or I would have qualified it with my particular terrain so one could use relativity and compare themselves with me as there is no point in that. So when I defined average for you, you will notice that I was very vague.


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## Duane Gran (Feb 3, 2004)

When I used to ride seriously the important metric I noticed was the difference in average speed between my hard and light days. A proper recovery ride might average 15mph while a very hard ride could be 23/24mph. When I was beginning every ride was about the same speed.


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## motox155 (Jul 9, 2009)

spade2you said:


> Part of the problem with average speed is that it doesn't tell ya a whole lot. (


Yup.

With the same amount of effort I can maintain a much higher average riding with a few other people than solo.

I have a few regular out and back routes I do where on the way out I'm a hero due to the usual tailwind...it's that damn ride back that mess up my average. :cryin:

Climbing has a way of dropping an average as well.

Most of the loops I do around here in socal usually come in around 17 average or down to 15 on cruiser days (which I'm fond of.)


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## mmlee (Apr 15, 2012)

I don't worry about average MPH. I do a lot of hills and I usually coast down so my MPH are always low. I just concentrate on the intensity of the workout. The only time I really watch my MPH is on my climbs.... and that's only to help me stay on a steady cadence. My measuring stick is not really MPH but how long I can climb out of the saddle on long steady climbs. 

Just like it was said before last time I was concerned about MPH I was ignoring traffic laws.... so I don't bother monitoring it on overall rides anymore....... I just gauge it on short sprints and long steady climbs.


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## Teo (Aug 10, 2004)

I agree that average speed is not the most critical of numbers to track for cyclists. I just wanted to have a comparison to other riders, since I always ride alone. 

Besides it’s now a motivator. It seems like just about everyone rides faster than I do, and I can’t have that. So that has motivated me to spend a lot more time in the saddle and get more fit. That way if I ever come across any of you out on the road, I’ll at least be able to keep up.


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## Urb (Jul 19, 2010)

Teo said:


> I agree that average speed is not the most critical of numbers to track for cyclists. I just wanted to have a comparison to other riders, since I always ride alone.
> 
> Besides it’s now a motivator. It seems like just about everyone rides faster than I do, and I can’t have that. So that has motivated me to spend a lot more time in the saddle and get more fit. That way if I ever come across any of you out on the road, I’ll at least be able to keep up.


Nice thing about keeping up is the draft. Makes life so much easier and you get to ride with the fast folks.


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## Manning (Jul 8, 2010)

I also use ave speed for a motivator. My sigma comp stops timing whenever I stop, so I'm not too worried about starts and stops affecting the average too much. 

A while back I did find that my comp was off a bit when compared to a tracking gps. I've since made the comp match the gps, It was frustrating for a while since my speed when down ~1mph. But last Sunday I averaged 17.2 over 51 miles. Solidly in #2 group.


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## BostonG (Apr 13, 2010)

15.5mph on flat terrain for someone who rides 1x per week is fine.

A good way to feel bad about yourself is to ask racers and former racers what they would avg if they TTed a flat 25-30 mile course, even those who don’t train for or care about TTing. You shouldn’t compare those abilities.


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## MattSoutherden (Jun 24, 2009)

1) As has been pointed out, there are no prizes for average speed unless you're racing a TT.

2) Everyone rides over 20mph average on the interwebs. True story.

Ignore average speed. Ride you bike. If you want to ride with a group, ride with a group. Get dropped. Ride more. Don't get dropped. If you want to race, race. Get dropped. Ride more. Don't get dropped. Ride more. Win.

Wash rinse repeat.

My best result this year (3rd) came in a race that was much slower average speed than some of the others. However I spent the last 20 minutes on my own and it was windy, so my average power was pretty high. But still not as high as the highest average power I did on the same course earlier this year when I finished out of the top 10.


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## DMH2979 (May 24, 2011)

^ This, # 2. 

I don't really look at average speed, time, power and HR are what's important to me. 

I am a cat 1 (well cat 2 now because I downgraded when life became more than traveling around the country racing  and have been racing for 15 years. Raced all of the major NRC races. 

This is such a pet peeve of mine -- people who say in forums "oh I go out and easily average 20 mph."

It is a rare day I average over 20 mph on a solo ride. I always laugh to myself when people in the interwebs say "oh I am looking for advice, I usually go out and average between 20-25 but want to get into racing." That is BS, unless you are on a total flat road with no wind. . . . which really doesn't exist. 

Here's a good example. I did a super hard group ride last night. 3-4 pros, 2 people on Pro Tour teams back in the US for Tour of Utah and Colorado. It was a pretty hilly ride with some headwind sections, but we averaged 24 mph and the gas was on the whole ride. . . This was def not a "social" ride. I was on the rivet for 2+ hrs.


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## BostonG (Apr 13, 2010)

So OP, what you are experiencing here from many is an answer to a question that they don’t put much care into because they are racers and what racers care about is how they do in a race.

Sure, those that concentrate on TTing will be more focused on avg speed but really, your question can be answered in a more satisfying way for you by the recreational rider. 

And if you really want to know who you can keep up with, do a local race or go on a fitness or training ride that includes attacks. That’s the best method to give you an idea of where you stand among the locals.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

Teo said:


> I’m wondering what is a good average speed for a novice rider?
> 
> I only get out on Sundays for a 25 to 30 mile ride on a pretty flat road. I ride alone and try not to stop accept for red lights of course. My computer says I average about 15.5 miles and hour over my entire ride. Is this good? I would think not very.
> 
> What do you guys average?


I would say your speed is good for the amount of riding you do. The best way to get faster of course is to ride more, once a week ain't enough!

FWIW I ran a report on my Garmin data for the past 30 days and it showed 11 activities, 548.33 miles, 30:56 time, with 27,602 feet of climbing at an average speed of 17.7 mph. I'm guessing everyone on the internet will say they average 20 mph and that I'm slow though 
This does not include any running or mountain biking.


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## JackDaniels (Oct 4, 2011)

Teo said:


> What do you guys average?


Like everyone else says, it's a mostly useless stat so I don't pay attention. But according to Strava 7,681mi / 406hr = 18.9mph average (with 450k ft elevation gain).


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## Teo (Aug 10, 2004)

Thanks everyone for all the comments and suggestions. I’ve come to the conclusion avg speed is not that an important a number. But will keep an eye on it to track my improvement over time.


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## wblas3271 (May 12, 2012)

I generally use average speed to chart relative progress over set courses after a period of interval work. However, it's not a very effective way to measure actual gains. But I don't have a power meter so it's all I've got.


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## Teo (Aug 10, 2004)

Did my standard loop this weekend, this time I was able to average 16.5 miles an hour based on my onboard computer, instead of my normal 15.5. So I get how this stat is not really so relevant. Different day, different result. BTW, Strava says I averaged 17.5 miles an hour, but I’m guessing it’s a bit off.


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## clones2 (Jun 26, 2012)

Hmmm - I tend to guess that your Strava app with GPS is more accurate than the bike computer... I would look and see if they both registered the same distance for your ride.

Every ride I use Endomondo, Strava, and my bike computer. Endomondo and Strava are usually almost identical... the bike computer can fluctuate at times...


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Strava is as accurate or as inaccurate as the GPS device it's using to record data.

IMO, if you take a zoomed-in look at your track and it looks pretty smooth and shows you riding on the road, it's pretty good. If it shows a jagged path, it's going to be overreporting. IME, riding on a sideslope with poor GPS gives totally useless elevation gain/loss data, although the top and bottom are often still about right.

Then there's the issue of how useful the data is anyway. Which is a whole other thing...


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## jmal (Jun 2, 2012)

DMH2979 said:


> ^ This, # 2.
> 
> I don't really look at average speed, time, power and HR are what's important to me.
> 
> ...


This is encouraging. While I certainly understand that average speed does not necessarily mean much, I get tired of hearing people claim that they just did a hundred miler, solo at 23 mph. I typically ride solo in a very flat and windy region and my averages are typically in the 16.5-18 mph range. The one or two days a year when the wind drops to about 5 mph I usually get a couple extra mph out of it. Also, road surface affects things, too. Most of my roads are more like pebbles and rocks in tar than smooth asphalt. 

Having said that, I do get passed by riders sometimes, but most often I end up passing other riders. I always wonder how everyone is averaging 20+ mph but not passing me all the time. So, it's good to hear from some more experienced riders who are calling BS on the internet claims.


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## Teo (Aug 10, 2004)

On my first ride using Strava it said I did 35.5 miles and my computer said I did just 32.5 miles. I did an up-close of my route on Strava and it was zig-zagging all over the place. I used an iPhone to track the ride, so I figured the GPS on it is not that great. 

FYI, I recalibrated my computer and it was off by like 0.2 miles low for every 30 miles ridden.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I wonder if people are taking their averages by dividing their total miles for a ride by the amount of time from when they started to when they finished, or if they're leaving their computers in automatic mode and counting only ride time.

Makes a huge difference in how impressive my numbers are to leave out that I got to catch my breathe at a few intersections.


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## homebrewevolver (Jul 21, 2012)

average speed is a funny thing... it all is relative based on so many different factors. If you ride with other people your average will jump up about a mile over 30-40 miles. if there are lots of hills then that will cut your average down. distance, and road condition, and wind are also factors.

I just recently broke into the 18-20 mph range (closer to 20) but this is only when I ride with the club. When I am solo I am closer to 17-19 depending on all the factors.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

homebrewevolver said:


> average speed is a funny thing... it all is relative based on so many different factors.


And that is why apples must be compared to apples. Some people in this thread say that average speed isn't much of a good indicator of anything. But it is as long as it's used in a realistic way. If it's used on long steady solo rides it's quite indicative of relative fitness - when enough stats have been recorded. On occasional test rides (testing fitness on a set route at a set intensity) it's quite relevant - especially when a few years of data logging are done which lessen fluctuations due to outside influences (wind direction, heat/humidity etc) and natural variances (intensity of effort etc).

It's of much less relevance when used during interval training, group rides and such like stuff.

I've got many years of average speeds logged in my training journals and calendars. I can tell instantly that I can't do 19mph solo averages that I did three years ago. My top ones are 18mph this year. I can tell that my interval training rides all fall into the mid 17mph area over the last three years. I can tell that I'm 3.5mph slower than I was 30-40 years ago.

A 21.5mph group ride average next weekend would mean nothing to me as I'm still the same person who rode 17.7mph average on my hilliest 53 mile route this past Monday - my best ride of the year, proved to me because I know my normal average speeds and have the data from a previous (slower) ride on this same route back in June.


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## Teo (Aug 10, 2004)

Since I originally posted this thread I’ve taken biking more seriously again and have biked 600 miles or so and have been averaging about 90 miles a week. This weekend I did my standard 30 mile loop and I averaged 17.8 mph on it. I think the extra riding is starting to pay off. When used appropriately avg. mph can be used to measure performance increases.


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## jamesdak (Aug 22, 2010)

Well I am into my 3rd year of serious riding putting in at least 20 miles pretty much daily with lots of longer rides. Most rides are mainly flat with some minor hills but I also do weekend rides which may have 30 or more miles of real climbing. Anyway, this year I have 4994 miles and my average for all those rides is 17.43 mph. Now I should add that I do ride outside in northern UT year round and so see a significant drop in average daily speed when it's really cold and I am bundled up. Add in the switch to a mountain bike with studded snow tires and such and the speed goes down even more. 

Then take a day like today. I did my usual 20 mile loop and finished with an average speed of 19.2 mph. Yet today was pretty easy compared to the other day when I did the same loop but fought some serious winds for the final 3 miles and my average was 17.9 mph. So just looking at avg mph really does nothing for me. I need to compare conditions, rest state, hr, route, etc etc, to even come close to figuring how well I am doing. Since 99% of myh riding is solo my true metric is the fact that I pass a lot more riders these days than was the case last year where most riders were passing me.


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## Bonn55ie (Sep 12, 2012)

it can be useful as a gage to how you're doing,


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## The Human G-Nome (Aug 26, 2002)

I can't think of a more meaningless statistic than one's average speed. As soon as you slow down for a stop sign, for traffic, for a light, for a friend, for a flat, or for anything else, your average speed from the stop/start plummets. And the wind? The difference between riding against a headwind and riding with a tailwind can be 10mph, easy. 

You can say that average speed can be useful on a specific climb or straight of road, for example, but that still won't account for wind conditions which mean almost everything. So, if you're a Strava person, then sure, check out that average speed on that specific segment if it makes you happy. 

The only true way to measure your fitness is to ride with other people, preferably in a race or training race. If you finish ahead of them, you are fit. If you get dropped by them, you are not. It doesn't matter at all what the average speed for your ride was. 

Doesn't anyone else coast slowly up to lights, waiting for them to turn green? Or do people that care about average speed actually race up to the lights and stop signs and then slam on the brakes in order to help their average speed?

Some of my best racing years were spent with no speedometer at all. I had no idea how fast or slow I was going by numbers, but I had a pretty good idea I was doing well when I was placing high in races.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

The Human G-Nome said:


> I can't think of a more meaningless statistic than one's average speed. As soon as you slow down for a stop sign, for traffic, for a light, for a friend, for a flat, or for anything else, your average speed from the stop/start plummets. And the wind? The difference between riding against a headwind and riding with a tailwind can be 10mph, easy.


I do not agree at all. I log average speed just as I log time and distance (plus lots of other ride data) and when you do this for long enough (years) you see patterns. My route in and out of the city is always the same with the same interruptions (4 stop signs I roll through). If I have to stop, my computer is set to stop recording. So from my years of data I can easily see things that the casual commenter on average speed would never see. I have one route that is about 1mph faster than all my other routes. My hard steady rides are about 0.6mph faster than my Interval Training rides (which are all about the same no matter the length of the intervals). If I feel $hitty, my average speeds confirm it. If I'm feeling like a raging bull, they certainly confirm that too. On longer hard rides my average is better than on shorter hard rides (the time for the slower in-&-out of the city has more of an impact on shorter rides).

As I rarely ride with others (I'm retired and I always ride mid-week daytimes) I rarely get to compare myself with others. But no matter, as comparing *me* against *myself* is much more useful and consistent.

I also train on an indoor velodrome and as wind direction, route, gradient, temperature, riding surface are always the same then average speed (which I do measure & record) is totally dependent on my fitness. There is nowhere where average speed reflects fitness more than here.



> The only true way to measure your fitness is to ride with other people, preferably in a race or training race. If you finish ahead of them, you are fit. If you get dropped by them, you are not. It doesn't matter at all what the average speed for your ride was.


That could be considered meaningless as the judgement of your fitness totally depends on the quality of the people you're riding against and their goals and motivation for the ride.


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## The Human G-Nome (Aug 26, 2002)

Mike T. said:


> I do not agree at all. I log average speed just as I log time and distance (plus lots of other ride data) and when you do this for long enough (years) you see patterns. My route in and out of the city is always the same with the same interruptions (4 stop signs I roll through). If I have to stop, my computer is set to stop recording. So from my years of data I can easily see things that the casual commenter on average speed would never see. I have one route that is about 1mph faster than all my other routes. My hard steady rides are about 0.6mph faster than my Interval Training rides (which are all about the same no matter the length of the intervals). If I feel $hitty, my average speeds confirm it. If I'm feeling like a raging bull, they certainly confirm that too. On longer hard rides my average is better than on shorter hard rides (the time for the slower in-&-out of the city has more of an impact on shorter rides).
> 
> As I rarely ride with others (I'm retired and I always ride mid-week daytimes) I rarely get to compare myself with others. But no matter, as comparing *me* against *myself* is much more useful and consistent.
> 
> ...


As you ride almost exclusively alone, and you don't have to pay attention to wind requirements, you are in the extreme minority. For 99% of the cyclists, average speed is meaningless. If you don't believe me, just do a survey of people who race. No one cares about it. 

To that end, fitness in relation to racing and actually being fast has nothing to do with average speed. Racing is about surges and responding to surges, and your ability to either fight wind, or hide yourself from it by hiding well in the peloton. A person can demonstrate other-worldly time-trialing skills and still get spit out the back of a peloton. 

I would also say that you are in the minority in that you receive enough satisfaction merely with comparing yourself with yourself. That's not most people though. Most people appreciate and require comparison with others. Nothing wrong with your approach of course, but average speed is simply a non-factor for most.


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## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

My speed is average.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

The Human G-Nome said:


> To that end, fitness in relation to racing and actually being fast has nothing to do with average speed. Racing is about surges and responding to surges, and your ability to either fight wind, or hide yourself from it by hiding well in the peloton. A person can demonstrate other-worldly time-trialing skills and still get spit out the back of a peloton.


As I road raced, time trialed and track raced for years I'm fully aware of this. But I do none of that anymore; I compete against me.



> I would also say that you are in the minority in that you receive enough satisfaction merely with comparing yourself with yourself. That's not most people though. Most people appreciate and require comparison with others. Nothing wrong with your approach of course, but average speed is simply a non-factor for most.


Hey that's fine. I just wanted to leave a trace of a perspective from someone who does take notice of it. To say "no-one cares" isn't true and it *is* a good indication of relative fitness and improvement - relative to me.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Many train using time on the bike and effort, whether measured by percieved output, heart rate, or actual wattage. Some riders may care about average speed while others do not find it to be particularly relevant.


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