# why switch to campy?????



## jhenry4 (Feb 4, 2006)

i'm building up a pair of new road bikes and have the opportunity to make them either shimano or campy and can't quite make up my mind. i realize the ergonomics are a high priority and a very personal thing but what are some of the other benifits of building with campy?

also, one of the bikes is for my wife who has smaller hands, which control levers are better suited for the smaller handed female types?

thanks


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## Firefly55 (Sep 25, 2005)

The soul of cycling rests in Italy. The history, the pedigree the very essence of cycling is found in the eqipment produced by this Italian manufacturer. There is no contest - full stop. Campagnolo wears in. Shimano wears out.


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## Juanmoretime (Nov 24, 2001)

If you where to pay the same amount for a group, Dura Ace and Record are very close in price, and one group you threw parts away when they broke and the other you could rebuild, what would you choose?

Campagnolo!


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## Road cyclist (Jan 15, 2005)

*3 reasons*

1. *Technology:* Campy has a better patented indexed shifting design that Shimano cannot copy. I am talking about the compact brake hoods 
and not whether Campy shifts better or more smoothly than Shimano. 

2. *History:* Campy invented the first parallelogram (spelling?) motion RD. 

3. *Fame:* When riding your Campy-equipped bike, this will attract beautiful Italian women and you may be inspired to train harder.


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

1. Rebuildability. Just makes sense.
2. Clean cable routing.
3. Shift multiple cogs in both directions.
4. God uses it.
5. It gives an instant "in" w/ Italian women if you're in Europe.


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## Hillen (May 13, 2005)

I'm pretty passionate about the whole Campy thing -- I grew up in a town with a good LBS, and drooled over all the polished aluminum Campy parts under the glass case at the register every time I went in for something else -- I couldn't afford a single part, but I wanted them all. Now, happily, I have Campy stuff, and I love it. 

Of course, if I really try to be coldly objective, I think that in the abstract the choice between the two really comes down to the ergonomics, and if you're used to one and don't find the ergonomics of the other compelling, stick with what you know.

On the other hand, it sounds like you're actually building these bikes on your own, so I'll assume you do your own wrenching? The Campy components are user servicable, fully rebuildable, and parts are readily available from sources here in the US (ain't cheap, but you can get them). I've stripped (to the last part) and rebuilt every component I have (2004 Chorus) other than the BB. (BTW, they didn't need rebuilding, but I wanted to do it, so I did.) If you like working on this stuff, and you're not locked into the Shimano ergonomics, I'd think this is a great opportunity to make the switch. You won't regret it.


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## Mr. Scary (Dec 7, 2005)

Remember Tyler Hamilton? He was forced to use Campagnolo when he switched to Phonak, but now that he rides solely for his own foundation (THF) and can choose his own components he chooses Shimano. That speaks volumes...


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## jmoryl (Sep 5, 2004)

Road cyclist said:


> 1. *Technology:* Campy has a better patented indexed shifting design that Shimano cannot copy. I am talking about the compact brake hoods
> and not whether Campy shifts better or more smoothly than Shimano.
> 
> 2. *History:* Campy invented the first parallelogram (spelling?) motion RD.
> ...


Yes, but on the history point: SunTour invented the slant parallelogram mechanism that is the basis of the current Campy design. Others had to wait until the SunTour patent expired in 1984 - see http://www.hadland.me.uk/page35.htm .

Nevertheless, the OP should still use Campy!


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## ballmon (Mar 23, 2005)

Mr. Scary said:


> Remember Tyler Hamilton? He was forced to use Campagnolo when he switched to Phonak, but now that he rides solely for his own foundation (THF) and can choose his own components he chooses Shimano. That speaks volumes...


Ahhhh........Not really!!


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## Wicked2006 (Jul 9, 2005)

Mr. Scary said:


> Remember Tyler Hamilton? He was forced to use Campagnolo when he switched to Phonak, but now that he rides solely for his own foundation (THF) and can choose his own components he chooses Shimano. That speaks volumes...


Miguel Indurain was forced to use Campy and won 5 TDF's. That speaks volumes.


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## jhenry4 (Feb 4, 2006)

*speaking of sex appeal*

one of the bikes i'm building is for my wife. will the Campy components help her to attract some good italian men? 
so that she'll leave me alone to ride my new campy equiped bike of course...


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## bsdc (Feb 15, 2002)

I like the feel of the Campy hoods over the Shimano hoods. I like the Shimano shifter location over the Campy thumb shifter. I like the firm, notchy click of the Campy shifters over the vague click of the Shimano shifters. I like the ability to make slight adjustments to the front deraileur with the Campy shifter. I like the carbon and aluminum of Campy over the plastic and aluminum of Shimano. I like that Campy tends to slowly evolve and works to make its components compatible. Shimano seems to purposely make components incompatible. Shimano is more readily availible. Campy is more unique. Shimano is quieter.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*lets see, my record ergo 9 shifters*

are over 6 years old, freshly rebuilt and running like new. my Shimano Ultegras died at 10K miles and had to be 'replaced'. On my ride home the other day a paland I were in a sprint. While in the drops and standing as we cleared a little rise I dumped 2-3 gears and left him for dead.

I built my wife a Campy equipped bike and it made her cry as she knows nothing says "I love you more than Ciclismo Italiano"


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## ampastoral (Oct 3, 2005)

Mr. Scary said:


> Remember Tyler Hamilton? He was forced to use Campagnolo when he switched to Phonak, but now that he rides solely for his own foundation (THF) and can choose his own components he chooses Shimano. That speaks volumes...


he also chooses his own doctors. so yeah, good choice......sorry, couldn't resist


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## Road cyclist (Jan 15, 2005)

jmoryl said:


> Yes, but on the history point: SunTour invented the slant parallelogram mechanism that is the basis of the current Campy design. Others had to wait until the SunTour patent expired in 1984 - see http://www.hadland.me.uk/page35.htm .
> 
> Nevertheless, the OP should still use Campy!


I apologize jmoryl_sun.


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## Mr. Scary (Dec 7, 2005)

Wicked2006 said:


> Miguel Indurain was forced to use Campy and won 5 TDF's. That speaks volumes.


Indurain-sponsored by Campy.
Hamilton-unsponsored, buys his own sheat, I fail to see the similarities in your analogy. 
Using your logic-LA won 7 TDF's on Shimano-THAT MY FRIEND TRUMPS CAMPY!!

My point for the people that can remain objective is that while Campy may be more sexy, Shimano works better. 
For the guy with the Colnago that dropped a riding partner (and he attributed it to his Campy), judging from your bike setup you aren't real fast (you have very little flexibility or strength in your torso) so quit racing the six year olds on their BMX bikes and return to reality...


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## odeum (May 9, 2005)

actually, for that size frame the drop does indeed appear fairly proportionate, and assuming it is in some way an indicator of being "real fast" is only speculative at best.



"there are not many villians buying and selling on www.campyonly.com classified"




Mr. Scary said:


> Indurain-sponsored by Campy.
> For the guy with the Colnago that dropped a riding partner (and he attributed it to his Campy), judging from your bike setup you aren't real fast reality...


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

I am a woman. I have smaller hands. 

For me, the Campy hoods and shifters fit me better. My problem w/ Shimano was that I would inadvertently apply the front brakes when trying to shift with my left hand. Almost did an endo on a test ride.


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

Mr. Scary said:


> Indurain-sponsored by Campy.
> Hamilton-unsponsored, buys his own sheat, I fail to see the similarities in your analogy.
> Using your logic-LA won 7 TDF's on Shimano-THAT MY FRIEND TRUMPS CAMPY!!
> 
> ...


Well, I wonder what little nugget leads you to think that one works better than the other......wait: trolls don't need nuggets.


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## Wicked2006 (Jul 9, 2005)

*Campy is just better*



Mr. Scary said:


> Indurain-sponsored by Campy.
> Hamilton-unsponsored, buys his own sheat, I fail to see the similarities in your analogy.
> Using your logic-LA won 7 TDF's on Shimano-THAT MY FRIEND TRUMPS CAMPY!!
> 
> ...


I rode Shimano for years and it always failed on me with all the miles I put on them. When Shimano breaks or fails, you have to replace everything. Can not be rebuilt. Campy stuff can be rebuilt and just feels better to me. You don't have to agree with my analogy and just so you know Miguel perfered Campagnolo over Shimano. 

LANCE could have won the Tour on a BMX bike. EPO does work. Trolls don't need nuggets. Funny Alienator.


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## jeffreyg (Nov 23, 2005)

*I'd get Shimano*

If I was going fishing


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

Mr. Scary said:


> Indurain-sponsored by Campy.
> Hamilton-unsponsored, buys his own sheat, I fail to see the similarities in your analogy.
> Using your logic-LA won 7 TDF's on Shimano-THAT MY FRIEND TRUMPS CAMPY!!
> 
> ...



Indurain had no idea on the costs of bikes and parts... there was a story that he was shocked at the price when he went out and bought a Cannondale after his retirement.

Isn't LA the first and only winner of the TDF to ride brand S?


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*uh for the guy who can't read my post*

that bike (the Nag with the Campy) was my gift to my wife. (who isn't that fast and has had some back issues) It's set up so later after she gets more flexible she can flip the stem. 
maybe you missed this
I built my wife a Campy equipped bike and it made her cry as she knows nothing says "I love you more than Ciclismo Italiano"

that bike is a 49 with Campy 10, I ride 61's with Campy 9, very little stack and negative stem. mine is the larger orange Alu Merckx
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=51475

so when your reading comprehension gets better than the kids riding bmx bikes, maybe then you can make such comments


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## Road cyclist (Jan 15, 2005)

*Right on!*



il sogno said:


> My problem w/ Shimano was that I would inadvertently apply the front brakes when trying to shift with my left hand. Almost did an endo on a test ride.


Why don't more people admit/experience this. My first test drive with Shimano, I thought the samething. BTW, my hands are on the big side. I love Campy. Always have, always will.

" I don't mind being driven, I just don't want to be taken for a ride."


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Since my previous bike had Campy Super Record it was a no brainer for me to stick with Campy. I'm sure Shimano makes a fine product, but I just don't feel like doing a couple of endo's just to figure out how to shift their levers.


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

jhenry4 said:


> one of the bikes i'm building is for my wife. will the Campy components help her to attract some good italian men?
> so that she'll leave me alone to ride my new campy equiped bike of course...


No, actually. You need to remember the words of Xaviera Hollander, "All women are bisexual, whether they know it or not." Therefore, a woman riding a Campy equipped bike will, in fact, have an instant in with Italian women. Really, if anyone would know how women really were, it would be the Happy Hooker, Xaviera Hollander.

Really, it's a win/win situation.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*unless you've seen most*

Italian women. Short and Stocky,but cook a mean meal. Not exactly fantasy material.
(unless we're talking Gina or Sophia, etc)


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> Italian women. Short and Stocky,but cook a mean meal. Not exactly fantasy material.
> (unless we're talking Gina or Sophia, etc)


Hmmmm, you didn't see my wife's boss's niece. Mmmmmmm.......nummy. 28....long, wild hair......pretty much a divorce waiting for a couple to happen to......


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

Someone asked, "Well exactly what do these women look like that are drawn like flies to thick, sweet treacle?" I took my digicam on my last ride and snapped a few pics of women drawn to the Record Ultra labels on my brifters.....


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## jeffreyg (Nov 23, 2005)

alienator said:


> Someone asked, "Well exactly what do these women look like that are drawn like flies to thick, sweet treacle?" I took my digicam on my last ride and snapped a few pics of women drawn to the Record Ultra labels on my brifters.....


Did you score ?


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*see 28 is a problem*

too young for them to get the 'pop'. besides Sophia few look 'hot' in their mature years.


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> too young for them to get the 'pop'. besides Sophia few look 'hot' in their mature years.


I dunno: her 50-something aunt still turns heads......


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*good sign*

how's the mom?
ya just gotta watch it, some have 'rapid rise' programmes that hit at about 30.


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> how's the mom?
> ya just gotta watch it, some have 'rapid rise' programmes that hit at about 30.


That I don't know. Hey, I married an Italian girl.....sort of. Grandparents were off-the-boaters. At 40, she's holding steady at 5'4", 115 lbs. At any rate, the growth potential of Italian ladies can't even come close to that of the womynz in Ohio......er.....that's reason #319 why I'm glad I'm in Arizona, now.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Ohio women*

like the states name Round on both ends and you'd have to Hi to date em.
yes, I'm only generalizing here (I've been known to do so ;oP) there are always exceptions.
I dated a girl from Milan and she will age quite nicely. Too bad she was a frickin nightmare to deal with. Like owning a Ducati, ride Saturday, wrench sunday,clean monday, re wrench Tues and if yer lucky ride Wed.


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> like the states name Round on both ends and you'd have to Hi to date em.
> yes, I'm only generalizing here (I've been known to do so ;oP) there are always exceptions.
> I dated a girl from Milan and she will age quite nicely. Too bad she was a frickin nightmare to deal with. Like owning a Ducati, ride Saturday, wrench sunday,clean monday, re wrench Tues and if yer lucky ride Wed.


Wow. You could ride your Duck that often? My Duck ride schedule was similar except that after the wrench day was 30-60 days of waiting for parts to arrive from Italy.


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## Frenk (Jul 23, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> Italian women. Short and Stocky,but cook a mean meal. Not exactly fantasy material.
> (unless we're talking Gina or Sophia, etc)


When was last time you were in Italy? Two centuries ago in Sicily perhaps?
Gina and Sofia look like low-rent hookers compared to what italian girls are now! Have a walk in Milano, Rome or any other italian city for that matter and you'll be shocked.
Tall, lean beautiful girls everywhere, and dressed with style.
Hope my words don't sound harsh, but to find anything similar in the US you have to go to LA, NYC or South Beach, plus perhaps a few campuses, while they're still young!!!
Sorry guys, you struck a cord...


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

Frenk said:


> When was last time you were in Italy? Two centuries ago in Sicily perhaps?
> Gina and Sofia look like low-rent hookers compared to what italian girls are now! Have a walk in Milano, Rome or any other italian city for that matter and you'll be shocked.
> Tall, lean beautiful girls everywhere, and dressed with style.
> Hope my words don't sound harsh, but to find anything similar in the US you have to go to LA, NYC or South Beach, plus perhaps a few campuses, while they're still young!!!
> Sorry guys, you struck a cord...


Hey, Frenk, your preachin' to the choir....at least as far as I go.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*oh am well aware (sorry I struck a chord)*

but again we're talkin' Italian Girls. yes tall,lean and beautiful but still many don't stay that way. Same could be said for other nationalities as well. 

and anyhoo I'm just smack talkin' and I'll wait to see if any of these young beauties has the Schwing Factor of Sophia at age 60. Watch 'Pert a Porter' by Robert Altman and check Grandma aged Sophia and see if you're not saying 'Id hit it'


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## Frenk (Jul 23, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> but again we're talkin' Italian Girls. yes tall,lean and beautiful but still many don't stay that way. Same could be said for other nationalities as well.
> 
> and anyhoo I'm just smack talkin' and I'll wait to see if any of these young beauties has the Schwing Factor of Sophia at age 60. Watch 'Pert a Porter' by Robert Altman and check Grandma aged Sophia and see if you're not saying 'Id hit it'


Again, when was last time you were here in Italy? It is true that the new generation of kids is following the horrible american trend of eating junk food and drinking sugar filled soft drinks, and our scientists say we will also become like the americans, 70% of them fat, of which 30% obese, but thankfully we're not there yet.
Take a holiday cycling the tuscany hills and you will tell me how our women age.
Cycling is an endurance sport generating great fitness, but not everybody is a cyclist.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Frenk lighten up*

yeah we got loads of fat Americans. I wish I could do some Tuscan riding. Eddy is leading a ride there next month.

Lombardia,Tuscany and Piemonte,heck the North in general yes has a different way than what I've been referring (and I'm not being serious, this whole thing devolved into silly talk, follow the thread).

I'd be sad if it is so. Tuscan cuisine is my fave. light, healthy, simple and fresh. I know the women reflect it as well. As stated I dated a girl from Milan and she was long and lean.(but a pain in the a$$)
Don't ever become like America, it would break my heart. 

and again,I'm just teasing. as my previous post said,many women worldwide get heavy as they age. In America they get heavy much younger. Have ya ever heard of the DB's?


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## Angelracer (Dec 12, 2004)

Wicked2006 said:


> LANCE could have won the Tour on a BMX bike. EPO does work. Trolls don't need nuggets. Funny Alienator.


Wicked- Funniest thing I read all day! Well put!

To me Campy is like maple syrup. Its good if its made in Vermont. Anyone else who makes it anywhere else... just doesn’t get it right (speaking of it because I make maple syrup). So in the instance of Campagnolo, only in Italy. Nothing better. Final statement


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

alienator said:


> Someone asked, "Well exactly what do these women look like that are drawn like flies to thick, sweet treacle?" I took my digicam on my last ride and snapped a few pics of women drawn to the Record Ultra labels on my brifters.....


You forgot one ....


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

jeffreyg said:


> Did you score ?


I did, but I'm bound by contractual agreement to maintain that lucky being's anonymity.


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

il sogno said:


> You forgot one ....


You're spot on: ol' Doc Frankenfurter was definitely a campy chick.


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## Squeegy200 (Dec 1, 2005)

*I hate this kind of reasoning*



Mr. Scary said:


> Using your logic-LA won 7 TDF's on Shimano-THAT MY FRIEND TRUMPS CAMPY!!


If you want to use this logic, then one has to admit that the other 92 Tours were won on Campagnolo equipment. 
-------------------------------------------------
Both Shimano and Campagnolo have attributes and faults. I have bicycles equipped with both. I like both for different reasons. It is easy to learn to use either system and its easy to switch between the two. 

Shimano has the advantage with Aftermarket wheels and accessories as more companies make items compatible with the Japanese gruppo compared to Campagnolo.

Campagnolo has more gruppos and more versatility and more price points to meet different budgets. For instance, the Centaur group has compact, triple, or double in polished silver or grey finish. There's also carbon or alloy to choose from and they are all rebuildable with each individual piece available as a spare part. .


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## jhenry4 (Feb 4, 2006)

*i have seen the light*

thanks to all for you emotional postings. the more i look the more campy fans i find. i had the opportunity today to test ride a full record setup on a cannondale CAAD 8. needless to say the ergonomics were wonderfull, and you could feel and hear the quality... In the coming weeks i'll be completing my CAAD 7 build with compact record and begining a specialized roubaix with compact centaur for my wife.


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## bsdc (Feb 15, 2002)

jhenry4 said:


> thanks to all for you emotional postings. the more i look the more campy fans i find. i had the opportunity today to test ride a full record setup on a cannondale CAAD 8. needless to say the ergonomics were wonderfull, and you could feel and hear the quality... In the coming weeks i'll be completing my CAAD 7 build with compact record and begining a specialized roubaix with compact centaur for my wife.


Can I hear a "Hallelujah" from the choir!?


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## cthomas (Oct 26, 2003)

*Amen, Brother!*

I was just out yesterday after reading all the posts on RBR about shimano shifter problems and realized how my new Campy Chorus was shifting smooth as butter after 800 miles. I really hadn't thought about it, but I was always tinkering with Shimano (and still am on some bikes), but the Campy parts just look sweet and are quiet as a mouse. 

The choir is saying Amen!


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## handsomerob (Oct 5, 2005)

atpjunkie said:


> are over 6 years old, freshly rebuilt and running like new. my Shimano Ultegras died at 10K miles and had to be 'replaced'. On my ride home the other day a paland I were in a sprint. While in the drops and standing as we cleared a little rise I dumped 2-3 gears and left him for dead.
> 
> I built my wife a Campy equipped bike and it made her cry as she knows nothing says "I love you more than Ciclismo Italiano"


Uh sir, please step onto the median.... I am going to have issue you a stem angle citation.


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## Lexitos (Jul 9, 2004)

*don't do it!*

In fact it's very simple: When you need to ask why you'd take Campagnolo, better stay with Shimano.
It's a matter of feeling you know.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*handsome*



handsomerob said:


> Uh sir, please step onto the median.... I am going to have issue you a stem angle citation.


that bike is for my wife who has back issues. Set up that way so after she gets better and more limber I could flip the stem to down without cutting the steer tube to nothing. You can start high and work low, you can't do the opposite. I run negative rise with .5c stack.
Second, she's more a fun rider than competitive. She knows that bike is 1000 times better than she will ever be.


finally, know anybody with a Shimano tatoo?


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## galanz (Oct 28, 2004)

The brake quick release.
You accidentally ride off with a shimano brake quick release open you have no brakes. I don't really need to explain to anyone how much of a problem this can be.
With Campy you just have to reach a bit farther for the lever, the brakes still work as normal.


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## Mr. Jones (Jul 4, 2006)

ballmon said:


> Ahhhh........Not really!!


I tend to agree. Tyler Hamilton is just one pro. I might be swayed if a survey was taken of 100 or more racers who got to choose what they rode and the vast majority chose Shimano (or Campy for that matter).


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## Mr. Scary (Dec 7, 2005)

Mr. Jones said:


> I tend to agree. Tyler Hamilton is just one pro. I might be swayed if a survey was taken of 100 or more racers who got to choose what they rode and the vast majority chose Shimano (or Campy for that matter).


Trump both groups and run SRAM FORCE........... 
People arguing for the "Italian soul" have clearly never dealt with an Italian company's customer service. Unless you like the whole arrogance thing.


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## jhenry4 (Feb 4, 2006)

*sram sucks...on the road*

tried sram recently. it is very comfortable and ergonomic, the shifts are very precise (with their exact actuation), but... the indexing is a bit sketchy. i could never tell if i was going to get 1, 2, or 3 shifts when taking a full swing of the lever.

campy still rules the roost.


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## a_roadbiker (Jan 11, 2007)

Tyler Hamilton is a weenie.


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## a_roadbiker (Jan 11, 2007)

Yeah, but can you imagine how much better he would have performed with Campy? Honestly, I'm sure that LA would have performed equally as well with either Campy or Shimano...


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## a_roadbiker (Jan 11, 2007)

If you want to slow down, buy Shimano. If you want to stop, buy Campagnolo! End of story.


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## a_roadbiker (Jan 11, 2007)

I have a 1995 Tommasini Tecno fully equipped with the same year Campy Record Ergo (8 spd). With well over 35,000 miles on it, the only thing I EVER had to do, besides routine maintenance (replacing chains, cassettes) was have the shifter/brake levers rebuilt (not replaced). I even only changed the brake pads once or twice.

I also have a 2000 Tommasini Fire (that I bought and had fitted in Italy at Tommasini) which is also fully equipped with Campy Record Ergo (Carbon 10 spd). It has over 15,000 miles on it and only the chain and cassette has been changed. By the way, when you go to a bike shop in Italy like the Tommasini shop, you won't een see any Shimano in there.

With that said, I also have a 1985 Cannondale SR1000 with a complete Shimano Sante Grouppo (anyone remember that???). It still works great to this day. But is has half the mileage of both of my other bikes, and I am now starting to buy replacement NOS components on eBay mainly for nostalgia sake, but also because I know that I can not buy spare parts should components fail. I don't ride it much anymore anyway...

I think that the Campy Ergo set-up is much cleaner - all of the cables are internally routed and not all over the front end like on the Shimano. The hoods are comfortable and the functionality is far superior to Shimano (you can shift multiple gears, not only one-at-a-time). IMHO, the Campy not only functions better, but is 100x more asthetically pleasing...

I will never stray from Campy Ergo (except for the XTR set-up on my mountain bike).

Jim


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## Mr. Scary (Dec 7, 2005)

a_roadbiker said:


> I have a 1995 Tommasini Tecno fully equipped with the same year Campy Record Ergo (8 spd). With well over 35,000 miles on it, the only thing I EVER had to do, besides routine maintenance (replacing chains, cassettes) was have the shifter/brake levers rebuilt (not replaced). I even only changed the brake pads once or twice.
> 
> I also have a 2000 Tommasini Fire (that I bought and had fitted in Italy at Tommasini) which is also fully equipped with Campy Record Ergo (Carbon 10 spd). It has over 15,000 miles on it and only the chain and cassette has been changed. By the way, when you go to a bike shop in Italy like the Tommasini shop, you won't een see any Shimano in there.
> 
> ...


Campy's mountain groups were a sight to behold LOL...
For all of the people raving on about shifting multiple gears, what are you doing that you have that need on the road? The Shimano spring release is so light that a couple of individual clicks are far quicker than Campy's plastic feeling heavy single, multiple gear grab. If that is a selling point, you need to invest in the autobike since you either don't know how to shift, or simply don't pay attention when you ride...
The SRAM hoods are more comfortable than either Campy or Shimano but the zealots will never admit to that.


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## a_roadbiker (Jan 11, 2007)

I don't really appreciate your tone here: _"since you either don't know how to shift, or simply don't pay attention when you ride". _I think that with well over 60,000 miles I have a pretty decent idea how to shift. If you had any idea about what you were talking about, then you would apreciate the ability to make multiple shifts in one easy motion. Having ridden both Shimano and Campy, I think I have an idea as to what my preferance is. Although I will not stoop to your level and insult you back, I'd be interested in seeing you eat crow when Shimano (finally) starts using Carbon Fiber (NOT PLASTIC). If Carbon Fiber is such a bad thing, then why are most of the frames on the tour made out of it? I have never tried SRAM levers, so I can't comment on the comfort of the hoods. If I get the opportunity to try them and feel that they are more comfortable to me, then I will admit it. Actually, I'm pretty happy to see an American company making road grouppo's. By the way, the SRAM's are also made out of Carbon Fiber (http://willyoumaketheleap.com). Maybe you should try Campy some time and make a judgement based on experience rather then ignorance...


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## jhenry4 (Feb 4, 2006)

*don't be hatin'*

don't try to justify your ownership of an autobike by taking baseless cheap shots.

ergonomics are a very personal choice, what is comfortable to one may cause numbness in another. i hope you don't apply your logic to saddle choice as well.

as for the need for multiple shifts, there are many instance where being able to grab multipe gears is handy. sprinting, cresting hills, switching chainrings, etc. though you must not have these issues with your autobike!


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## a_roadbiker (Jan 11, 2007)

I don't have time for Jack-asses like you. And besides, who started the cheap shots Richard?


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## Mr. Scary (Dec 7, 2005)

a_roadbiker said:


> I don't really appreciate your tone here: _"since you either don't know how to shift, or simply don't pay attention when you ride". _I think that with well over 60,000 miles I have a pretty decent idea how to shift. If you had any idea about what you were talking about, then you would apreciate the ability to make multiple shifts in one easy motion. Having ridden both Shimano and Campy, I think I have an idea as to what my preferance is. Although I will not stoop to your level and insult you back, I'd be interested in seeing you eat crow when Shimano (finally) starts using Carbon Fiber (NOT PLASTIC). If Carbon Fiber is such a bad thing, then why are most of the frames on the tour made out of it? I have never tried SRAM levers, so I can't comment on the comfort of the hoods. If I get the opportunity to try them and feel that they are more comfortable to me, then I will admit it. Actually, I'm pretty happy to see an American company making road grouppo's. By the way, the SRAM's are also made out of Carbon Fiber (http://willyoumaketheleap.com). Maybe you should try Campy some time and make a judgement based on experience rather then ignorance...


Shimano's manufacturing strength lies in forging metal. BTW, they are using carbon in the middle ring on the newly released 970 series XTR. Do you honestly think Campy is doing something Shimano can't (patent infringment aside)? Puleeeze...
The Campy mechanism has a heavy feel due to design. You cannot manufacture with as tight of tolerances when the unit is designed to be serviceable. Not a knock on them (pick your poison) but a simple fact of engineering. I know diehard Campy guys who openly admit that Shimano shifts better (but would use Mirage before Dura Ace), but they love Campy for the soul and use of exotic materials, etc. Shimano designs for functionality, and Campy for aesthetics. SRAM (in typical Asian manufacturing practices) has knocked off the positive traits of both.


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## Barabaika (Jan 15, 2007)

Mr. Scary said:


> Shimano designs for functionality, and Campy for aesthetics. SRAM (in typical Asian manufacturing practices) has knocked off the positive traits of both.


I've examined a $7000 bike with SRAM Force recently. The chain rubbed against the front derailleur on both sides, and the crankset wobbled slightly.


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## OperaLover (Jan 20, 2002)

*Eddy Merckx said it best at Tullio's funeral.*

This is why I ride Campagnolo! (with thanks to campyonly.com) Eddy's eulogy to Tullio.

"Dear Commendatore Campagnolo:

On behalf of the cyclists all over the world, of those known or unknown, I address to you from this square of this church a touched good-bye. You deserve to belong to our life's memories because, rider like us, you have known before us our fatigue, and you have helped us. 

You have done it with that generous intelligence that was the fruit of your goodness as man and as entrepreneur. 

You have been the most faithful and precious of our helpers. You arrived first for seven times, with me, to the goal of the Milano-Sanremo; you were with me under the snow the day I was climbing victorious, the road of the Tre Cime di Lavaredo. I shared with you every success. 

In telling you good-bye in the name of all the presents and of those who regret not being here, I wish to repeat an act of faith heard in this church. 

You will remain with us, riders of all ages and of all classes, as a dear and unforgettable road fellow. A good friend. 

I tell it to you in a bad Italian, maybe, but with an Italian heart because, thanks to you, there is a piece of Italy with your name on all the bicycles of the world. 

Your memory will remain always with us. 

Good-bye"

'nuff said!


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## BLUE BOY (May 19, 2005)

Mr. Scary said:


> For all of the people raving on about shifting multiple gears, what are you doing that you have that need on the road? The Shimano spring release is so light that a couple of individual clicks are far quicker than Campy's plastic feeling heavy single, multiple gear grab. If that is a selling point, you need to invest in the autobike since you either don't know how to shift, or simply don't pay attention when you ride...



You truely are Scary. I guess there will always be Campy & ShimaNO wars 
just like the ******** have Ford & Chevy wars.


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## Mr. Scary (Dec 7, 2005)

Barabaika said:


> I've examined a $7000 bike with SRAM Force recently. The chain rubbed against the front derailleur on both sides, and the crankset wobbled slightly.


Blame the guy that setup the bike, not the freaking groupset...


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## Barabaika (Jan 15, 2007)

Mr. Scary said:


> Blame the guy that setup the bike, not the freaking groupset...


Actually, it's the SRAM groupset that should be blamed. It needs the most precise adjustment of the front derailleur to eliminate the rubbing. Also, I've tried several bikes both with Rival and Force, and their cranksets wobbled a little bit that made this adjustment even more difficult.

Moreover, there is a SRAM review on the forum:
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=76138



> I do have to agree with the Inbred on the FD thing. Mine doesn't shift great, kinda sloppy. and rubs when I'm in the big cog in the back. Have had a couple of the best wrenches in town work on it and if they get it to where it doesn't rub, it doesn't shift worth a F*&$, so a bit of rub is what I have to deal with to get it to shift OK, not great but OK. Other than that I LOVE it. Hoods feel good to me, RD shifts great, I like the single lever shifting, although as everybody agrees, it takes a few miles to retrain the brain!!


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## Mr. Scary (Dec 7, 2005)

Barabaika said:


> Actually, it's the SRAM groupset that should be blamed. It needs the most precise adjustment of the front derailleur to eliminate the rubbing. Also, I've tried several bikes both with Rival and Force, and their cranksets wobbled a little bit that made this adjustment even more difficult.
> 
> Moreover, there is a SRAM review on the forum:
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=76138


You appear to suffer from selective reviewing. I saw several other people that loved it and one guy was selling his Record off (SRAM had replaced it)... (GASP)...


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## Barabaika (Jan 15, 2007)

Mr. Scary said:


> You appear to suffer from selective reviewing. I saw several other people that loved it and one guy was selling his Record off (SRAM had replaced it)...


Yes, but this reviews prove the front derailleur problem with SRAM that I've noticed and heard myself. It means that I would try to avoid 1 or 2 cogs in order not to hear the grinding sound if I bought SRAM. Why pay extra for the 10-speed system then?

Most people want to know pros and cons before the purchase, don't they? Could you ask this guy about the chain rubbing please?


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

a_roadbiker said:


> I don't have time for Jack-asses like you. And besides, who started the cheap shots Richard?


I haven't even posted on this thread.


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## locomotive1 (Jan 26, 2007)

CAMPY IS BEAUTIFUL, shimano is NOT!


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## jhamlin38 (Oct 29, 2005)

I gotta great idea. get two bikes for each. one with campy, one with shimano. ride a crapload, and figure out which one you go to most.
as for endoing while trying to shift, I cannot bring myself to see that happening. I've ridden primarily shimano for the past decade, and just don't see that happening, unless you're incredibly undextoris (yeah, its a new word). 
Or, if you want to pioneer your own experience, jump on the SRAMwagon. Force looks pretty sweet.


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## Lexitos (Jul 9, 2004)

I'm working in a bike shop, so i've been able to try all kind of groupsets.
Campa does look nicer, it last a lot longer and personnaly i like the ergopowers more than the sti's.
Further Campa is usually bought by riders who are really thinking about what they put on their bike. With Shimano that's not always the case.
So if you have no idea why to switch to campy, simply do not do it!


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## tonykara (Jul 23, 2006)

*Campy all the way*

I have always ridden with shimano (105 & ultegra....not durace). but as of late last year i purchased a bianchi 928L frame and decided to keep it all italian..

Yes my initial decision was based on looks (carbon looks cooler)

however once i started riding the difference was obvious.

1. the flat hood of the campy is more comfortable for me
2. you can shift multiple gears both ways
3. i found that it will shift fairly well even when im out of the saddle (my ultegra struggled)
4. you can shift both ways while on the drops
5. servicing part is a huge +. you will get a longer life out of campy as you can rebuild 
parts

thus.....CAMPY


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## heckler963 (Dec 28, 2005)

*cool guys*

arguing on campy vs shimano is like an italian vs the japanese.

an alfa romeo is a powerful car with nice handling and a camry is nice car to drive. both have its advantages.

just my 2 cents worth.

btw I have both DA 05 and record 07. both are nice but campy is sexier on my TIME 

p/s take a look on eBay and you will see the popularity of campy. you don't see much old DA on sale. On the other hand you can see a 20 years old super record RD selling at a premium price.


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## a_roadbiker (Jan 11, 2007)

So what do you have to say for yourself now Mr. Scary??? Now that SHimano has seen the light and introduced black carbon brake/shift levers??? Oh, I guess they are not cheap plastic now are they? And what of Campy's new Super Record 11 and UltraTorque???

Campy STILL rules the road...


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## Mr. Scary (Dec 7, 2005)

a_roadbiker said:


> So what do you have to say for yourself now Mr. Scary??? Now that SHimano has seen the light and introduced black carbon brake/shift levers??? Oh, I guess they are not cheap plastic now are they? And what of Campy's new Super Record 11 and UltraTorque???
> 
> Campy STILL rules the road...


I ride Campy Record and I'll stand behind my statement that the shift levers have a cheap plastic feel to them. The thumb lever is not the easiest to reach, but Campy is aesthetically the most pleasing grouppo. 

Explain to me how Ultra Torque is any more advanced than Shimano's external bearing setup? Rather than torquing the non drive arm for retention it tightens inside the bb shell. Ooooh so different.


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## Chris Keller (May 19, 2008)

- It goes to 11!!
- It's definitely much sexier!
- It breaks in instead of breaking!
- It has more solid, precise shifting!
- It's lighter than Shimano!
- Campagnolo only makes stuff for cyclists, not fishermen...!
- It doesn't need constant adjusting
- It's not for 'followers'!
- It works...!!!


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*info...*



Mr. Scary said:


> I ride Campy Record and I'll stand behind my statement that the shift levers have a cheap plastic feel to them. The thumb lever is not the easiest to reach, but Campy is aesthetically the most pleasing grouppo.
> 
> Explain to me how Ultra Torque is any more advanced than Shimano's external bearing setup? Rather than torquing the non drive arm for retention it tightens inside the bb shell. Ooooh so different.


Wow, talk about old thread resurrection!

UT is quite different than any other outboard crank design. The user does not adjust the bearing preload like the other systems. As long as the BB width is within the specified 67.2-68.8mm width, the preload is set by the spring force of the wave washer in the left side cup. With no pinch-clamp on the left crankarm, you don't have to worry about the left crankarm coming loose. The large fixing bolt in the center of the split spindle seems to hold quite reliably, as long as it's torqued to spec. If the BB shell is under the width limit, a standard BB him washer is installed behind the left cup to bring it into spec. If it's over limit, some BB facing would be needed to reduce the width.

Then new shifters are an improvement in ergonomics, easy of operation and serviceability. I read your claim that a serviceable shifter can't be made to shift as accurately. That's nonsense. In the case of the new shifter design, the fastest wearing item - the g-spring - has been eliminated and the entire rear mechanism is nothing like the old one. Campy expects little or no service to be required. The clicks can be made to be much lighter, like in the 10 speed Centaur model, or with much the same feel, as in the 11 speed models. The new levers are so easy to disassemble it's incredible. Changing two parts will convert a 10 speed shifter to 11 speed, or vice versa.


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## a_roadbiker (Jan 11, 2007)

It's fun bringing up the old battles, isn't it!

As to the durability and serviceability of Campy, I don't think that is an arguable discussion. You can get parts and repair virtually any Campy component. I have a '95 Record Grouppo that performs like new and has had only minor repair. My newer bike is a 2000 Tommasini with a Record 10 Grouppo (Carbon levers). I have had to rebuild the left side lever assembly once in well over 25,000 miles, and just this week I replaced the rear deraileur cable for the second time. I upgrade the front deraileur to a newer Carbon unit last year, but other than that the system works great. All it takes is routine maintenance, the same as I do on my '85 Cannondale/Shimano Sante (when's the last time you heard of one of these?). Actually, I used to completely clean my Shimano setup every 300 miles (almost once a week at one point), but I only thoroughly clean my Campy stuff every 500 to 700 miles (or more).

With the Record 10, I found that the earlier chain design was not as strong as the new design. I broke a chain after about 3,500 miles, but I understand that the new chains are much more durable. I just put a new one on and even the cogs (Ti/Steel) are sttil in good shape, as well as the Chainrings).

Now I am considering the 10 Speed Ultra Torque. It's on sale now for about $500 because of the introduction of the Record 11 and the Super Record 11. I'm just having a littl difficluty justifying the $500. But... everyone that I know that has installed one praises the simplicity of the design, the ease of installation and (zero) maintenance, the smooth performance, the stifness, and the light weight.

I may consier upgrading the shift levers and the crank, but maybe I should wait just a little longer and upgrade the whole bike... , although there is really nothing wrong with it. AND it's a steel bike. The complete bike weighs less than 18 poinds!

If any of you have some encouraging words about the UT 10, I could use it to psuh me over the edge.

And now, Mr. Scary, why are you so down on Campy when you yourself ride with a Record grouppo? No one is forcing you to use it. If you dislike it that much, sell it on eBay and get the new Shimano DA set-up with carbon levers. Just be prepared for replacement for repair vs replacement for upgrade...

And now I am ready to take cheap shots for riding an Italian Steel bike, which I went to Italy to get fitted for and buy - but that's another (great) story for another time...


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

Look to sources in the UK for better prices on the crank. You can get a new 11 speed Record for under $500. I chose the Chorus 11 model because it has the same chainrings as Record and Super Record, it's only 40 grams heavier and cost about $330 with the cups. 

Shiny Bikes, Ribble. Total Cycling or Pro Bike Kit are all reputable.

I bought a Chorus 10 UT last season and paid about $350 from a US based online dealer.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> that bike is for my wife who has back issues. Set up that way so after she gets better and more limber I could flip the stem to down without cutting the steer tube to nothing. You can start high and work low, you can't do the opposite. I run negative rise with .5c stack.
> Second, she's more a fun rider than competitive. She knows that bike is 1000 times better than she will ever be.
> 
> 
> finally, know anybody with a Shimano tatoo?


Remind me not to post a pic of my Master XL...I'm keeping my rise stem and spacers, thank you. My back feels better with it and I don't race anymore so who cares?


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## LaxFactor (Nov 19, 2006)

One reason that i switched to campy is that my hands fit far better on the campy hoods than the shimano ones.


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## a_roadbiker (Jan 11, 2007)

Have you seen the new Shimano Wheelset? This is interesting and shows their roots and "reel" interest...


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