# Your Unpopular (Biking) Opinions



## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

I'm curious as to your opinions that are outside the norm, weird, unpopular, or otherwise unorthodox in any way, shape, or form as it pertains to cycling. We've got a couple other forums for discussing non-cycling stuff, so please try to keep this thread up on two wheels.

I'll start:

I like logos all over things. I grew up in a world watching NASCAR and extreme sports, so having all kinds of logos and stickers makes me feel like a part of that. But, and this is a pretty big but, I only like logos of the parts I use on a bike. I couldn't, in good faith, ride a bike with a SRAM logo stuck to it when I knew that the bike were equipped with Shimano, for instance.


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## .je (Aug 25, 2012)

Visors on helmets are a good idea most of the time. I didn't realize this until I commuted on the bike - both with and without the visor.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

I like 'taking the lane' and promoting biker's rights. Some DS don't get it!


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Fenders. 

Fenders on frames that are designed for proper fender mounting, so the don't have to be make-shift mounted. I don't think that I'd buy a frame that wasn't designed for proper fender mounting anymore, unless, maybe, it was a '70's Cinelli


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

off to a great start.

think helmet visors look dork AF and detest being referred to as a 'biker'...


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## azpeterb (Jun 1, 2006)

Roadies are mostly a**holes.

Except for me. My sheot don’t stank. 😁


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## blackfrancois (Jul 6, 2016)

i always position the skewer lever on the drive side of the front wheel. i like to see it. with vintage campy, it's so pretty. why hide it? £¥¢€ the non drive-side! it's not good enough for both skewer levers. but please don't put the rear lever on the drive-side. eww. that's just gross.


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## azpeterb (Jun 1, 2006)

Frame pumps come in handy to whack rabbits who dare to enter the roadway as I approach. It makes me feel like Prince Charles playing polo with the royals.


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## mik_git (Jul 27, 2012)

old_fuji said:


> I like logos all over things. I grew up in a world watching NASCAR and extreme sports, so having all kinds of logos and stickers makes me feel like a part of that. But, and this is a pretty big but, I only like logos of the parts I use on a bike. I couldn't, in good faith, ride a bike with a SRAM logo stuck to it when I knew that the bike were equipped with Shimano, for instance.


I'm pretty similar to that, don't do much stickering these days, but did a lot in my early mtbing days... probably from dreaming to be a sponsored pro... definitely for stuff I use or like (both)
I also like to wear team bib's similar reason, plus I like bit of colour on my shorts, jerseys not so much (only a little), but all black shorts look terrible IMO


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## AlanE (Jan 22, 2002)

Whenever I pass a jogger going the other way, I extend my hand and offer up a "high-five" to see if they reciprocate.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

bike must have a full sized frame pump anyway you can.


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## craiger_ny (Jun 24, 2014)

I think orange bikes are preferable over red ones.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

craiger_ny said:


> I think orange bikes are preferable over red ones.



This is not an opinion. This is a fact. 

Fact!

Also, Orange bikes are faster than bikes of any other color.


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

SPlKE said:


> This is not an opinion. This is a fact.
> 
> Fact!
> 
> Also, Orange bikes are faster than bikes of any other color.


Can confirm, through the scientific testing of my bike ride yesterday. My orange MTB beat my wife's red roadbike up a long incline.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

White bar tape is stupid, and looks terrible on almost every bike. If you are not a ProTour rider, tubulars are stupid as well. Ti bikes are a waste of money.


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

old_fuji said:


> Can confirm, through the scientific testing of my bike ride yesterday. My orange MTB beat my wife's red roadbike up a long incline.


You can't argue with science. I have a couple of orange jerseys and they are indeed faster. Sometimes my jersey makes it up the hill before I do


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## ljvb (Dec 10, 2014)

old_fuji said:


> Can confirm, through the scientific testing of my bike ride yesterday. My orange MTB beat my wife's red roadbike up a long incline.


This may have more to.do.with her letting you win so she does not have to hear you whine about it at home


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Electric bikes are for wimps who are too lazy to pedal the real thing.


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## mtrac (Sep 23, 2013)

.je said:


> Visors on helmets are a good idea most of the time. I didn't realize this until I commuted on the bike - both with and without the visor.


Assuming you're talking about a sun visor, they're a horrible idea on a road bike. If you have the misfortune to do a faceplant, say from going over the handlebar, the visor will fold, snap like a twig, and shred your forehead. Ask me how I know?

I pry them off.

For my unpopular opinion, I will never carry a phone in a jersey pocket. It either goes in a backpack or one of these.






​


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## Finx (Oct 19, 2017)

I'm a big fan of valve stem lock nuts and caps...


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## dir-t (Oct 14, 2005)

Regular drivetrain maintenance. Who has time for that crap? 

I run the same chain, cogs, and chainrings until the chain skips under power. Then I replace everything.


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## davelikestoplay (May 27, 2010)

.je said:


> Visors on helmets are a good idea most of the time. I didn't realize this until I commuted on the bike - both with and without the visor.


Yep. Visors are useful anytime, but especially for commuting. Don't care that it looks dork AF.. which they do


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## nealric (Jul 5, 2007)

dir-t said:


> Regular drivetrain maintenance. Who has time for that crap?
> 
> I run the same chain, cogs, and chainrings until the chain skips under power. Then I replace everything.


Username checks out


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Here's my most unpopular opinion:

Conti GP4000s tires are flat magnets, and don't handle very well when compared to Vredestein road tires.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

SPlKE said:


> Here's my most unpopular opinion:
> 
> Conti GP4000s tires are flat magnets, and don't handle very well when compared to Vredestein road tires.


Or Vittoria Corsa G+ tires


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## fast ferd (Jan 30, 2009)

On our huge Saturday morning group rides, I enjoy chatting it up and can pretty much remember names. Many are all, like, "what's your name again?!!!"


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

pmf said:


> Or Vittoria Corsa G+ tires


I might have to try those out next.


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## BCSaltchucker (Jul 20, 2011)

one layer of bar tape is never enough, sometimes 2 is not enough


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## GlobalGuy (Jun 9, 2015)

duriel said:


> I like 'taking the lane'... Some DS don't get it!


Just order a large headstone for your final resting place. The above would be a cool engraving for it.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

BCSaltchucker said:


> one layer of bar tape is never enough, sometimes 2 is not enough


Fizik Microtex bar tape is perfect. Everything else is junk.


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## Peter Lauridsen (Jun 22, 2013)

Coolhand said:


> White bar tape is stupid, and looks terrible on almost every bike. If you are not a ProTour rider, tubulars are stupid as well. Ti bikes are a waste of money.


I agree Ti bikes are a waste of money and for old people. (i own two) But bamboo frames or other wood bikes, I don't get.


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## MaxKatt (May 30, 2015)

GlobalGuy said:


> Just order a large headstone for your final resting place. The above would be a cool engraving for it.



This is actually a real thing. 

I dominate intersections and traffic by moving through with speed and confidence, while standing high on the pedals so that I'm sure I'm seen by all from every direction. The typical effect is often to freeze stunned motorists until I've cleared the space. 

I've told my girlfriend I'm "King of the Intersection" and we've agreed that if I ever miscalculate with fatal consequences, that is exactly what she'll etch in my stone.


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

Let's really ruffle some feathers:

Lance Armstrong was the best thing for American cycling when he was still around.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

SPlKE said:


> Fizik Microtex bar tape is perfect. Everything else is junk.


Total agreement here. I just put their performance 3mm tape on my bike and I'm liking it a lot more than I thought I would.


And on another note, I'm also a fan of taking the lane.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Here's a good one...….I use White lightening chain lube because I get insane amounts of chain and cassette life.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

Well, I get stunned responses when fellows see me put my svelt racing shoes into toe clips and straps, and as I ride off, gracefully lean forward to snug the straps. No float slotted cleats.

Down tube shifters, too. Too bad they're not available in 10 and 11 speeds! Short cable runs, so efficient, simple, trouble free. Reaching down is so simple. How often do you have to shift?


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## blackfrancois (Jul 6, 2016)

my top priorities when riding in the city are courtesy and safety, and therefore, i break a lot of so called "laws."

the ethics of breaking traffic laws

_"When I’m on my bike, I regard traffic lights the same way a dog regards an alarm clock: it doesn’t mean shïf to me personally, though I am quite invested in the behavior it inspires in those around me."_


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## mik_git (Jul 27, 2012)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Here's a good one...….I use White lightening chain lube because I get insane amounts of chain and cassette life.


Same, I was never a fan back in the day, but got some as a samply thing and it's amazing.... finishline ceramic on the other hand, is no good (i was a long time believer in finishline teflon for many many, many years), but this ceramic is emergency use only as I ran out of white lightning and lbs' dont stock it.


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## hfc (Jan 24, 2003)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Here's a good one...….I use White lightening chain lube because I get insane amounts of chain and cassette life.


I’ve been using this for years and don’t understand the naysayers.

@Frederico - I think there are 10 speed Dura Ace DT shifters and I know Campy 10 speed bar end shifters are easily adapted for DT shifter bosses.

Mine: My steel bikes are just as fast as my plastic bikes.


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

mik_git said:


> Same, I was never a fan back in the day, but got some as a samply thing and it's amazing.... finishline ceramic on the other hand, is no good (i was a long time believer in finishline teflon for many many, many years), but this ceramic is emergency use only as I ran out of white lightning and lbs' dont stock it.


Wait, what's wrong with Finish Line Ceramic?


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

I believe that "brifter" is not a lame word.


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## mik_git (Jul 27, 2012)

old_fuji said:


> Wait, what's wrong with Finish Line Ceramic?


Because I put it on and half way through my ride my drivetrain sounds like I poured water on it instead, squeek, grind... 
Never had an issue with finish line teflon, or wet (except in sandy conditions on the mtb) and white lightning has been great, ceramic has been crappy.


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## eboos (Mar 22, 2011)

Gravel bikes are pure marketing hype and the answer to a question that nobody ever asked.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

I have mirrors on all my bikes.


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## dir-t (Oct 14, 2005)

SPlKE said:


> I believe that "brifter" is not a lame word.


Same here. What do people have against contractions?


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

I believe in mixing groupsets. For those more a slave to fashion aka the majority, I view them as inferior. :cryin:


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

dir-t said:


> Same here. What do people have against contractions?


Ask cxwrench, the resident mechanical expert/curmudgeon.


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## n2deep (Mar 23, 2014)

JCavilia said:


> I have mirrors on all my bikes.


I wear cocoons over my prescription glasses in the summer.


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

I hate that club rides start early in the morning.

I'm tired of cyclists talking about having a beer after riding, like it's so original. Tired of cyclists posting pics of a glass of beer. Big deal you had a stupid beer. Who the F cares. 

Pepsi is the best after ride drink. 

Cinelli gel cork is the best bar tape. 

Sportful clothing is WAY better than Assos.


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## GlobalGuy (Jun 9, 2015)

maximum7 said:


> I hate that club rides start early in the morning.


I pay yearly dues to belong to an elite club. (I am not elite.) I've never been on a ride with it exactly for the reason you mention. I get two things out of my club, (mainly because I'm not elite), that is one pair of my half dozen bibs are my flashy club bibs and I get a good discount from a lot of club sponsors.


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## Finx (Oct 19, 2017)

I love cleaning my bikes. It's like therapy to me. Nothing better than grabbing the bike to go for a ride and having everything clean, shiny, lubed and perfectly adjusted.

Every

Single

Time


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

SPlKE said:


> I believe that "brifter" is not a lame word.


Only bruttholes and shiftheads think it is.


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## gande_bike (Feb 28, 2006)

I like listening to music while I ride - with earbuds.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

n2deep said:


> I wear cocoons over my prescription glasses in the summer.


I had to look that up. Never heard of those before. I wear prescription sunglasses.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

I usually have my front skewer lever on the right side of the bike. 
That seems to really freak out some people especially mechanics.

I'm right handed and mount the bike from the left so I just find it easier on that side when putting on the wheel right before getting on the bike and fail to see why it matters at all which side it's one.


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

I run all my seat post clamp slots 180 degrees from the seat tube slot and I'm ok with it.


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## blackfrancois (Jul 6, 2016)

JCavilia said:


> I wear prescription sunglasses.


i just bought some for the first time from zennioptical.com. just select 80% grey tint for your prescript glasses, and you're set. pretty inexpensive way to do it.


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

My mostly retrogrouch / Grant Peterson inspired opinions:
1. Bike weight under 20 lbs doesn't matter. Weight weenieism is a bizarre, counterproductive and pointless obsession.
2. Aero wheels and aero frames make zero difference in the real world.
3. Internal cabling sucks.
4. The most important component to spend a little extra on: the rear hub.
5. Fendered steel rando bikes look much better and are much cooler than the latest aero carbon race bike. (Don't get me wrong, I love a carbon racing bike, but my heart belongs to high end rando stuff).
6. Bar lower than saddle positions are actually far more comfortable for long rides.
7. The idea that bottom bracket "stiffness" improves "power transfer" or "efficiency" is hogwash. It's a personal preference thing, nothing more. Front end stiffness is much more important as it makes a big difference in how a bike handles.
8. You can ride 90%+ of dry gravel events on a road bike with 25mm tires.
9. Expensive sunglasses and helmets are a complete waste of money. Expensive shoes and clothing are not.
10. The cup and cone hub is superior in every way to the sealed bearing hub.
11. Fatbikes are a ton of fun for summer trail riding.
12. No show running socks work best for hot summer riding.
13. Wedge "aero" seatpost clamp designs are stupid and awful.
14. Tubeless is not ready for prime time in any application over 35 psi.
15. The idea that shoe sole stiffness contributes to "efficiency" is also hogwash.
16. Flat pedals are a perfectly viable option for almost all road cycling.

My non retrogroach opinions:
1. Hydraulic disc brakes are awesome and worth the maintenance trouble.
2. Through axles are superior to QRs in every way.
3. Drop in headsets and clamp on stems are much superior to threaded steerers and quill stems.
4. 1x with a narrow-wide chainring and clutched RD is the only way to go for an MTB and can be great on the road. Every RD should have a clutch.


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

Hiro11 said:


> 16. Flat pedals are a perfectly viable option for almost all road cycling.


I am keen to this.


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## El Scorcho (Dec 14, 2005)

All rides should start at 0:dark30 The silence is golden. 

If you are 7 minutes late you get left.


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## El Scorcho (Dec 14, 2005)

Hiro11 said:


> My mostly retrogrouch / Grant Peterson inspired opinions:
> 1. Bike weight under 20 lbs doesn't matter. Weight weenieism is a bizarre, counterproductive and pointless obsession.
> 2. Aero wheels and aero frames make zero difference in the real world.
> 3. Internal cabling sucks.
> ...


You have an interesting 50/50 mix of genius and complete lunacy. It was a good read nonetheless, I'll bet your fun at parties.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

El Scorcho said:


> All rides should start at 0:dark30 The silence is golden.
> 
> *If you are 7 minutes late you get left*.


Get left at 7minutes, not five?

Your kinder gentler side is showing.


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## El Scorcho (Dec 14, 2005)

velodog said:


> Get left at 7minutes, not five?
> 
> Your kinder gentler side is showing.


I'll give a guy 5 minutes. Maybe he had an emergency growler to take care of or he could't find the right socks. But I can only be so lenient.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

El Scorcho said:


> I'll give a guy 5 minutes. Maybe he had an emergency growler to take care of or he could't find the right socks. But I can only be so lenient.


Is he gonna hafta share that growler?


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## ogre (Dec 16, 2005)

Hiro11 said:


> My mostly retrogrouch / Grant Peterson inspired opinions:
> 1. Bike weight under 20 lbs doesn't matter. Weight weenieism is a bizarre, counterproductive and pointless obsession.
> 2. Aero wheels and aero frames make zero difference in the real world.
> 3. Internal cabling sucks.
> ...


I agree with all of these except #15.

And I'll add one that probably grates the wrong way against others - I wear my sunglasses inside the helmet straps. I'm not saying that's the right way to do it, but that's the way I do it.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

Hiro11 said:


> My mostly retrogrouch / Grant Peterson inspired opinions:
> 1. Bike weight under 20 lbs doesn't matter. Weight weenieism is a bizarre, counterproductive and pointless obsession.
> 2. Aero wheels and aero frames make zero difference in the real world.
> 3. Internal cabling sucks.
> ...


Man, you are so right! :thumbsup: 

Each of the issues you bring up are worth a thread by itself.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

All group rides (actually all events) should have a unusual advertised and actual start time. 7:23 or 5:17 implies that the organizers mean business. Times like 7:30 or 5:00 grant license to the inconsiderate to be late. 

The age old axiom "better never than late" must be enforced.


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## Nazz44 (Jun 26, 2003)

Yep, marketing BS.


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

Ooh, I've got a couple:

1. Any person complaining about an uncomfortable saddle is riding on an ill fitted bike.
2. Most people are riding on ill fitted bikes
3. Most people ride with their saddles far too far back, those people usually complain of 
4. bars lower than seat does not need to = numb hands and pain, but your seat does need to come forward
5. if your seat is anything other than close to parallel with the ground, you're doing it wrong
6. photo-chromatic lenses are superior to any other tint. you can wear them from noon to sunset and under tree cover, and some even at night.
7. hydraulic discs all. the. way.


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## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

9W9W said:


> Ooh, I've got a couple:
> 
> 1. Any person complaining about an uncomfortable saddle is riding on an ill fitted bike.
> 2. Most people are riding on ill fitted bikes
> ...


Nothing bothers me more than a saddle that’s too far forward.


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## HyperCycle (Sep 5, 2012)

1. I like Gatorskin tires.
2. I'd rather wear relaxed fit bike jerseys than skin tight
3. I prefer mountain bike shoes and clipless mountain pedals for road bikes


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## BCSaltchucker (Jul 20, 2011)

9W9W said:


> Ooh, I've got a couple:
> 
> 1. Any person complaining about an uncomfortable saddle is riding on an ill fitted bike.


yep. ill-fitted as in an ill-chosen saddle, other other parameter possibly



> 5. if your seat is anything other than close to parallel with the ground, you're doing it wrong


nope


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## Steve B. (Jun 26, 2004)

I think 1X systems and the trend towards these systems is kind of stupid. 

Did front derailers all of a sudden start to suck ?. I’m not even clear on the advantages on mt. bikes, I think it has to do with the chain moving around in really bumpy terrain - downhilling maybe ?, not sure. On road bikes it’s just stupid.


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## masont (Feb 6, 2010)

azpeterb said:


> Roadies are mostly a**holes.
> 
> Except for me. My sheot don’t stank. 😁


Not all roadies are *******s. But in a bike shop, all the *******s are roadies.


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## fast ferd (Jan 30, 2009)

Quote Originally Posted by azpeterb View Post 

Roadies are mostly a**holes.

Except for me. My sheot don’t stank. 😁



masont said:


> Not all roadies are *******s. But in a bike shop, all the *******s are roadies.


On this site, we call that a thread killer.


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

I'll never be cool enough to ride a Salsa or a Kona bike. Surly is questionable.


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## daniell (Apr 12, 2002)

To the rider who flatted out without tools saying that he did not want to carry extra weight. I told him that now you will have a different type of weight, it is called wait.

Steel is real!


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

All of my unpopular opinions are specific to how I roll... which basically means _I’m_ unpopular. 

A.) Never tried clipless pedals.
B.) Never tried a carbon frame.
C.) Never had a bike with bar tops lower than the saddle.
D.) Never bought an “aero” anything on purpose.
E.) The maximum weight for a bike is whatever I can lift into the bike stand with my left hand, while I tighten the clamp with my right... and I’m fairly strong.
F.) Nothing wrong with 3X or 2X if you need or want the gears, but I’m liking the 1X on my bikes.
G.) Small frames with long stems and posts make sense for racers and weight weenies... I’m neither. Larger frame, high-rise stems and a fist full o’ seatpost for me.
H.) I’ll never justify paying the money for electronic shifting.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

A Poser is a poor man's Poseur.


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## DaveRider (Jul 29, 2016)

I like MTB SPD's with MTB shoes on my road bike. I know it's a faux pas but I hate walking around like the little Dutch boy.


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## DaveRider (Jul 29, 2016)

n2deep said:


> I wear cocoons over my prescription glasses in the summer.


Are those the Robocop old people lens thingies?


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

factory feel said:


> Nothing bothers me more than a saddle that’s too far forward.


Maybe if you lowered it you'd actually be sitting on it instead of being tipped forward?


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

Opus51569 said:


> All of my unpopular opinions are specific to how I roll... which basically means _I’m_ unpopular.
> 
> A.) Never tried clipless pedals.
> B.) Never tried a carbon frame.
> ...


Sooo, basically, a bona fide card carrying Luditte.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

9W9W said:


> Sooo, basically, a bona fide card carrying Luditte.


No, he doesn't admit to wearing gym shorts and tennis shoes.


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

Wow, the amount of Fredism in this thread is nauseating!


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## HyperCycle (Sep 5, 2012)

pedalbiker said:


> Wow, the amount of Fredism in this thread is nauseating!


:thumbsup:


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Compact cranks are total BS.


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

pedalbiker said:


> Wow, the amount of Fredism in this thread is nauseating!


lol....off the chart. Unnoticeable freds on the road given a voice.
Like guys trolling a home theater forum:
I never owned a flat screen TV
I use computer speakers for my audio with no sub woofer
I don't need a universal remote because I don't need an amplifier


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## smartyiak (Sep 28, 2005)

Long socks are stupid. No socks should ever extend past your ankle. 

If you're cold wear shoe covers...or drink a coffee.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

The "Rules" are really, really stupid.


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## loxx0050 (Jul 26, 2013)

11spd said:


> lol....off the chart. Unnoticeable freds on the road given a voice.
> Like guys trolling a home theater forum:
> I never owned a flat screen TV
> *I use computer speakers for my audio with no sub woofer*
> I don't need a universal remote because I don't need an amplifier


Ha ha. I actually do use computer speakers for my surround setup for my TV. But it does have a sub though. These days I don't even bother to turn it on and just use the TV built in speakers most of the time. 

But it doesn't bother me to wear a kit to a team I don't belong to as long as it wasn't used if they have chamois (at least I did that for a couple of skinsuits I bought on ebay). A guy at a local TT series recognized a short sleeved skinsuit kit I bought off the 'bay and was pretty peeved that I bought it from there and felt I was a poser. Or at least that's the vibe I got off of him when I told him as such (he started asking me about the team).....small world when you buy a kit from a NYC club and get recognized in the Midwest by a former member of that club.


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

velodog said:


> The "Rules" are really, really stupid.


agree with this. 
I never got the socks with cycling shoes, no point other than looks. 
Electronic shifting makes cycling a lot more pleasurable.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

kiwisimon said:


> agree with this.
> I never got the socks with cycling shoes, no point other than looks.
> Electronic shifting makes cycling a lot more pleasurable.


I think the rules were meant to be somewhat TIC.

My top 10 in no particular order:

1. Tubulars. I love how they roll/corner but, come on.
2. Tubeless. Limited tire selection. Sealant is a PITA. Mountain ok.
3. Cheap shorts/bibs/jersey's. 
4. Club cut anything. 
5. SIDI shoes. 
6. Campy thumb shifters.
7. Narrow rims.
8. Cheap tires.
9. Mavic. Except their shoes.
10. Men who feel the need to give unsolicited and mostly **** advise to women.


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

pedalbiker said:


> Wow, the amount of Fredism in this thread is nauseating!


Fredism is in the eye of the beholder. For example, in my opinion the following is true Fred-like behavior:
- mounting aerobars on a mountain bike or hybrid
- buying an aggressive racing bike with a short head tube and then swapping in a riser stem
- setting your saddle too low and then toodling around like you have a crap in your shorts
In other words a "Fred" in my opinion is someone who doesn't quite get it and uses bike stuff in a manner that's ill suited to purpose.

The following is certainly "Fredish", but not a symptom of the true "Fred" in my opinion: 
- wearing anything Primal Wear or wearing an unfunny "jokey" jersey
- using Shimano cycling sandals
- using flat pedals on a road bike
- wearing a regular athletic T-shirt on a bike ride
Note that in these cases, the false-Fred in question is making "unfashionable" decisions but is in fact using stuff in the manner in which it was intended. Very experienced, knowledgeable cyclists could make the above decisions. They are not true "Freds".


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

Hiro11 said:


> For example, in my opinion the following is true Fred-like behavior:
> - mounting aerobars on a mountain bike or hybrid


had never encountered this particular abomination until this week...passed a guy in full kit on a flat-bar hybrid who was pedaling along at a very leisurely pace in an aero-tuck. 

started to take in this unusual sight for a moment longer, but the noises coming from the drive train were ear-piercing...apparently the concept of chain lubrication has been kept a secret from him. had to get away asap to protect my hearing...


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

woodys737 said:


> I think the rules were meant to be somewhat TIC.


Yeah, but...

too many have taken them as the word of God.


----------



## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

DaveRider said:


> I like MTB SPD's with MTB shoes on my road bike. I know it's a faux pas but I hate walking around like the little Dutch boy.


No it's not. Andy Hampsten talked me into doing it.


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

loxx0050 said:


> .small world when you buy a kit from a NYC club and get recognized in the Midwest by a former member of that club.


I would have deconstructed him right then and there asking him why he wasn't strong enough to survive and instead quit and left for the midwest? You missed your chance to pulverize him.


----------



## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

9W9W said:


> I would have deconstructed him right then and there asking him why he wasn't strong enough to survive and instead quit and left for the midwest? You missed your chance to pulverize him.


I would have said in my best passive-aggressive voice:

"I wondered why it has a stench I can't wash out. Meeting you has solved that mystery."

Bam!


----------



## blackfrancois (Jul 6, 2016)

Hiro11 said:


> The following is certainly "Fredish" ... using flat pedals on a road bike.


"flat"? like these?


----------



## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

velodog said:


> Yeah, but...
> 
> too many have taken them as the word of God.


Agreed.


----------



## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Aero bars on a mountain bike -- I've only seen it once, but the humor value was not lost. The guy even had knobby tires.


----------



## n2deep (Mar 23, 2014)

pedalbiker said:


> Wow, the amount of Fredism in this thread is nauseating!


 Sure signs of Fred-ism’s



Worn out shorts that let’s the rest of us see the arse crack, no matter how studly you think you are. (Trust Me-This rule is gender specific!)


Riders who care more about being color coordinated-styish than being on time to start the ride

Riders that don’t maintain their bike!!!! Nothing sucks more than stopping to repair a bike on the road due to lack of proper maintenance, flats don’t count.


Bringing your Tri-Bike w-Aero bars to the club ride


----------



## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

Let your Fred flag fly freely. Do what you want, I'm not your mother. If it makes you happy, go nuts!


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

old_fuji said:


> Let your Fred flag fly freely. Do what you want, I'm not your mother. If it makes you happy, go nuts!


Face it ... we're cyclists. We're all Fred.

It hit me a few years ago when I got done riding the Seagull Century. Not a particularly great ride, but the first century I ever did, so I keep doing it year after year. I'm standing there amongst throngs of middle age people clad in lycra thinking this really is a nerdy sport.


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

old_fuji said:


> Let your Fred flag fly freely. Do what you want, I'm not your mother. If it makes you happy, go nuts!








here goes


----------



## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

pedalbiker said:


> Wow, the amount of Fredism in this thread is nauseating!


Hey! Nice job with the unpopular biking opinion. That’s the spirit. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## HyperCycle (Sep 5, 2012)

I'm not as Fredly as I was when I first started road cycling. 

I used to wear baggy mountain bike shorts (with chamois) when riding my road bike. Now I wear lycra shorts.

I used to use toe-clip pedals and flat pedals on my road bike instead of clipless. Now I use Speedplay clipless pedals/cleats. 

I used to wear a Giro "mountain" helmet with visor. Now I have a Bontrager helmet that is designed for road riding.


----------



## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

I fart in the general direction of anything related to gravel, wide tires, Campy, disc brakes...


----------



## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Oxtox said:


> I fart in the general direction of anything related to gravel, wide tires, Campy, disc brakes...


Ditto, except for Campy. I fart at Shimano.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

Oxtox said:


> I fart in the general direction of anything related to gravel, wide tires, Campy, disc brakes...





SPlKE said:


> Ditto, except for Campy. I fart at Shimano.


So you guys fart at each other, eh. :lol:


----------



## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

bvber said:


> So you guys fart at each other, eh. :lol:


Needing to fart at Shimano is what has motivated me to ride alone 110% of the time these days. 

Now I just fart at nothing in particular during my lonely rides.


----------



## blackfrancois (Jul 6, 2016)

SPlKE said:


> Now I just fart at nothing in particular during my lonely rides.


"no, sir. i don't like it."


----------



## bleckb (Jun 13, 2005)

Fredrico said:


> Down tube shifters, too. Too bad they're not available in 10 and 11 speeds! Short cable runs, so efficient, simple, trouble free. Reaching down is so simple. How often do you have to shift?


What? No friction shifters? You've succumbed to the indexed shifting fad?


----------



## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

Mountainbikers seem chill, but are quite judgemental. Roadbikers seem judgemental, but are really chill.


----------



## PJay (May 28, 2004)

HyperCycle said:


> 1. I like Gatorskin tires.
> 2. I'd rather wear relaxed fit bike jerseys than skin tight
> 3. I prefer mountain bike shoes and clipless mountain pedals for road bikes


You took mine.

The only thing I have to add:

I pump my tires up to 120 psi.


----------



## PJay (May 28, 2004)

HyperCycle said:


> I'm not as Fredly as I was when I first started road cycling.
> 
> I used to wear baggy mountain bike shorts (with chamois) when riding my road bike. Now I wear lycra shorts.
> 
> ...


I am still fredly:

I use the toe clips (partly so I can run local errands and partly because my wife will borrow my bike at times);
I wear the baggies so I have pockets, and also so I don't freak other people out with my equipment prominently bulged out;
I like the visor.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

I wear Under Armour Heat Gear tee shirts which are vastly superior to any of the bike jerseys I have ever owned.


----------



## Bike_Dogter (Aug 13, 2014)

Unless you live in Portland OR, where All Bikes Matter...Renovo Bikes is 2 blocks from my house. I bought a “mid-life crisis” ti bike with discs and Di2, and what I really lust for is a steel frame; just saw a used Speedvagen with custom red paint...incorrigible, self-proclaimed. We just finished another Pedalpalooza, 30 days of friendly, if not freakish, organized rides through inner PDX, including the Naked Bike Ride. I don’t need to see my daughter riding on a bamboo bike in the buff if I’m subjected to the post-ride pics on social media. My true confession is I threw money away on a power meter, thinking it would help training, rehab from a broken leg and back surgery, to balance out my pedal stroke, and for pacing on long rides. What did I learn? 1) my watts/kg sucks, 2) FTP is inversely proportional to my fear of pain x number of ride limiting injuries, 3) my “weak” side actually puts out more power, 4) I can sell my power meter and may love riding more. The shadow of Fred (the Ghost of Fred Past) haunts me daily, checking tire pressure also haunts me daily. Who knows if Froome is either innocent or guilty, but the charges (which were dropped) were bunk. It’s difficult to definitively prove that Salbutamol is actually performance enhancing, urine levels represent anything more than a urine level and not a tissue level, the body can absorb any more of the drug at a time than it can use without dumping it, and that certain physiologic states won’t trigger renal dumping...I just had shoulder surgery so I’m stuck riding an indoor trainer all summer. Injuries are another peeve...too many enounters with gravity in the pursuit of fun.


----------



## bleckb (Jun 13, 2005)

9W9W said:


> Sooo, basically, a bona fide card carrying Luditte.


Any Luddite worth their salt would be out there destroying the carbon frames, clipless pedals, etc. Otherwise they are Luddite Lite.


----------



## Bike_Dogter (Aug 13, 2014)

I like a cycling cap under the helmet, brim forward in the rain, brim backwards in the dry unless I can flip it up, it’s otherwise no better than a helmet visor and interferes with my vision. I don’t like having to crane my neck. Flipped up is dorky. Why wear a cap at all? I’m a bald, old fart and rocking sunburn stripes is so 80’s. Sweat plus sunscreen in the eyes is so 90’s. Riding the drops is worth it. And I like my expensive helmet because MIPS works. I crashed last year and put a crack through the helmet but not the head. I went out and bought the same helmet again.


----------



## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Here's one...…..You don't need an 11 to go fast.....Hell, you don't need a 12 to go fast.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Here's one...…..You don't need an 11 to go fast.....Hell, you don't need a 12 to go fast.


8-speed was Peak Gears. 

Every added gear beyond 8 was just a marketing gimmick to make people buy new stuff. 

"9" was the first point of diminishing returns... it added nothing substantial to 8 speeds, but I guess was a necessary step between 8 speeds (the pinnacle) and dumbly unnecessary "upgrades" yet to be foisted upon us. 

By the time 11 speed rolled around, ridiculous "innovations" like delicate, overpriced chains that require stupidly expensive chain tools became the norm.


----------



## BCSaltchucker (Jul 20, 2011)

b but we reached 10 gears by the 1950s. 10 was a high point, in the 70s, I suggest. Straight blocks in those days demarcated the badas&es from the rest

(now we can have 13 sp without a front derailleur)


----------



## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

BCSaltchucker said:


> b but we reached 10 gears by the 1950s. 10 was a high point, in the 70s, I suggest. Straight blocks in those days demarcated the badas&es from the rest
> 
> (now we can have 13 sp without a front derailleur)


Have fun when that hellish contraption launches off your over-dished wheel and embeds itself your right buttock.


----------



## waterlogged (Aug 29, 2009)

I wear a mirror on my glasses while mountain biking....my wife and friends won't admit they know me.


----------



## GearDaddy (Apr 1, 2004)

SPlKE said:


> 8-speed was Peak Gears.
> 
> Every added gear beyond 8 was just a marketing gimmick to make people buy new stuff.
> 
> ...


Ha ha, I think Mr_Grumpy saying you don't need an 11 or 12 to go fast was referring to the cogs on the rear cassette, not the total drivetrain gears.

And I actually thought 9-speed was the "sweet spot" and 10-speed and beyond is somewhat diminishing returns. 9-speed chain is thinner and lighter, and it was one of the few times where you could practically interchange wheels with Campy and Shimano 9-speed hubs. Plus, 9-speed was around longer and you could more easily find parts, whereas 8-speed was a bit of a bastard child where it could be difficult to find parts.

My other unpopular (biking) opinions:
- Toe clips and straps truly suck. Man was I pleased when clipless pedals came along, especially for mountain biking!
- Downtube shifters suck too. I rode bikes with them for years, and man does it work so much better with integrated shift levers. Do. Not. Want. To. Go. Back!
- I actually like "Richie" pedals.


----------



## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

GearDaddy said:


> Ha ha, I think Mr_Grumpy saying you don't need an 11 or 12 to go fast was referring to the cogs on the rear cassette, not the total drivetrain gears.
> 
> And I actually thought 9-speed was the "sweet spot" and 10-speed and beyond is somewhat diminishing returns. 9-speed chain is thinner and lighter, and it was one of the few times where you could practically interchange wheels with Campy and Shimano 9-speed hubs. Plus, 9-speed was around longer and you could more easily find parts, whereas 8-speed was a bit of a bastard child where it could be difficult to find parts.
> 
> ...


10 speed chain is thinner than 9 speed. The gears are closer together. In fact, when it was first introduced, there were a slew of pros breaking chains in big races. Had some reworking to do.

11 speed wheels are interchangeable between Campy and Shimano. You can run a Campy cassette with Shimano and vice versa.


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## GearDaddy (Apr 1, 2004)

pedalbiker said:


> 10 speed chain is thinner than 9 speed. The gears are closer together. In fact, when it was first introduced, there were a slew of pros breaking chains in big races. Had some reworking to do.
> 
> 11 speed wheels are interchangeable between Campy and Shimano. You can run a Campy cassette with Shimano and vice versa.


I already knew all of this. I'm just saying that 9-speed IMO was a real improvement from 7/8 speed, and it generally worked well. 10/11 speed seems like more marginal gains, and some things became harder to deal with (i.e. chains).


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

I use sram 9 chains with my chorus 8 rd, record 8 cassette, and record 9 fd and chainrings. 

Silent, smooth, speedy shifting. Like butter.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

SPlKE said:


> I use sram 9 chains with my chorus 8 rd, record 8 cassette, and record 9 fd and chainrings.
> 
> Silent, smooth, speedy shifting. Like butter.


Dig it. Wider chains give that crisp shifting. Not loosey goosey like these narrow 10 speeds.

Yep, by the time they got to 9 speeds, everything was covered in the fast gears, 12-17. The only thing gained with 10, 11 speeds, were climbing gears, useful under 10 mph, that once a rider gets fit on his 16 pound bike, 2/3rds of which he'll never use. Two or three tooth jumps are no big deal under 10 mph.


----------



## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

blackfrancois said:


> "flat"? like these?


Best pedals ever made. And only $22.00 to replace. That's cheaper than a tire! 

Add a clip, strap, cleated shoe, and you've got the ultimate contact with pedals. Anyone see the latest issue of Bicycling? Keirin racers still use clips and straps on those pedals, on steel frames and 32 spoked wheels. For them, nothing is more responsive to their game.


----------



## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

bleckb said:


> What? No friction shifters? You've succumbed to the indexed shifting fad?


Thanks for catching me on that! . 

Friction of course! Full control at all times. :thumbsup:


----------



## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Fredrico said:


> Dig it. Wider chains give that crisp shifting. Not loosey goosey like these narrow 10 speeds.
> 
> Yep, by the time they got to 9 speeds, everything was covered in the fast gears, 12-17. The only thing gained with 10, 11 speeds, were climbing gears, useful under 10 mph, that once a rider gets fit on his 16 pound bike, 2/3rds of which he'll never use. Two or three tooth jumps are no big deal under 10 mph.


I can count all the times I thought "Gee, I wish I had one or two more cogs on my 8-speed 12-23" on zero (0) hands. 

I've never wanted for another cog. Most of my riding, except for extreme climbs and descents, I maintain a steady RPM around 85, and change gears only to keep that RPM. I use gears the way a propeller airplane with a constant speed prop uses propeller pitch, to maintain "best" power output and speed across a range of terrain.


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## .je (Aug 25, 2012)

Clif bars taste like particle board and jam.

Oily chain lube does not attract dust. It _can't_. It _accumulates_ dust, it _accrues_ dust, it _picks up_ dust, but there's no electrostatic or gravitational or any attraction.

So there.


----------



## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

I don't ride with republicans, because... well.... you know!


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

blackfrancois said:


> i always position the skewer lever on the drive side of the front wheel. i like to see it. with vintage campy, it's so pretty. why hide it? £¥¢€ the non drive-side! it's not good enough for both skewer levers. but please don't put the rear lever on the drive-side. eww. that's just gross.


With disc brakes both skewers should be on the drive side. Fred's and Huffy riders will disagree!


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

duriel said:


> I don't ride with republicans, because... well.... you know!


They must be heart broken!


----------



## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Shimano downtube shifters are available in 10 speed...…..Check Ebay.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

SPlKE said:


> I can count all the times I thought "Gee, I wish I had one or two more cogs on my 8-speed 12-23" on zero (0) hands.
> 
> I've never wanted for another cog. Most of my riding, except for extreme climbs and descents, I maintain a steady RPM around 85, and change gears only to keep that RPM. I use gears the way a propeller airplane with a constant speed prop uses propeller pitch, to maintain "best" power output and speed across a range of terrain.


I love my 12-23 10 speed cassette. You get the 16 AND the 18.....Same for my 13-25.


----------



## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> I love my 12-23 10 speed cassette. You get the 16 AND the 18.....Same for my 13-25.


Dig it!

Riders are much better off getting the 16 and 18, gears they'll use, instead of 26, 28, 30, etc. Unless they live in Pittsburgh, PA, or San Francisco, that is. With 42 t. chain ring, 24, or 25, or 26 is a sweet climbing gear. On 39 t. ring and a 16# bike? Piece of cake.

Another stunning reminder I had watching the TDF: Riders are going 28-32 mph steady tempo. So they're actually using those 11, 12, 13 t. cogs at sprightly cadences like its easy. At typical recreational speeds, 20-25 mph under power is about it for the lesser trained. So they don't need gears that are normal cadences, 75-90 rpm, only at 28+ mph! 

I haven't used the 13 cog in years. My last TT average 20 years ago was 21.5 mph! :frown2: Can't imagine what a 12 or 11 would feel like. Never go fast enough. The last cog I've ever used outside of a pace line in a race, was a 42-14 on an old Regina 14-28 freewheel. Perfect. Used the 16 and 18 cogs supplied all the time. 

Descending, going into a full tuck squeezes another 2 mph out of it. No gears necessary. Just a solid frame and nice set of wheels. Pedaling actually catches the wind and slows rider down.

Cool that 10 speed shifters are available in down tube versions, for those embarrassed at riding 6 or 7 speed freewheels. Not me, man. I just show off a little leg work.


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

I feel that calling it 'biking' sounds stupid...it's _cycling_. Get with it OP.


----------



## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

cxwrench said:


> I feel that calling it 'biking' sounds stupid...it's _cycling_. Get with it OP.


Oh yeah? 'Brifter' is a clever portmanteau, entwined with a tasty hint of jargon...in other words, you gotta know just a little more about cycling than the average ranger to understand the complexities and wonderment of the word.


----------



## ogre (Dec 16, 2005)

SPlKE said:


> I can count all the times I thought "Gee, I wish I had one or two more cogs on my 8-speed 12-23" on zero (0) hands.
> 
> I've never wanted for another cog.


I wish Shimano made a 18 speed cassette. Then I could have a 11-28 straight block.


----------



## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

cxwrench said:


> I feel that calling it 'biking' sounds stupid...it's _cycling_. Get with it OP.


yep we're not "bikers"


----------



## blackfrancois (Jul 6, 2016)

Fredrico said:


> Best pedals ever made. And only $22.00 to replace.


i sold some recently for $75 on craigs. from a '71 lygie. zero rash on the cages. pretty rare.

i love how you can get a wrench on the cone. might make it the easiest component on the bike to adjust. the japanese copy, kkt pro ace, was the same way. 

but, for me, i prefer the kkt top run. not nearly as blinging as campy, but more comfy ... and a lot closer to $22.


----------



## Bremerradkurier (May 25, 2012)

ogre said:


> I wish Shimano made a 18 speed cassette. Then I could have a 11-28 straight block.


I had a 8 speed Sachs Maillard freewheel in 12-19 for riding in flat Northern Germany spun onto a Superbe Pro hub.


----------



## D&MsDad (Jul 17, 2007)

9W9W said:


> Ooh, I've got a couple:
> 
> 1. Any person complaining about an uncomfortable saddle is riding on an ill fitted bike.


I agree this is probably true for the vast majority of people. I've ridden long rides (> 3 hr) on at least 6 different saddles from at least 5 different manufacturers, the only one that bothered me was not adjusted correctly (too high on a new bike - my mistake). I have a favorite, but the others work fine.

I'm willing to believe that there may be a few people with extra sensitive butts.


----------



## BCSaltchucker (Jul 20, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> I feel that calling it 'biking' sounds stupid...it's _cycling_. Get with it OP.


yeah, we're actually 'cyclers'

that's what Joe Rogan calls us.


----------



## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Bremerradkurier said:


> I had a 8 speed Sachs Maillard freewheel in 12-19 for riding in flat Northern Germany spun onto a Superbe Pro hub.


That sounds great. I have a 12-23 Record 8 speed, but I so rarely use the 23 or even the one next to it, which is probably a 21 or 20, they look a lot newer than the others.


----------



## BacDoc (Aug 1, 2011)

waterlogged said:


> I wear a mirror on my glasses while mountain biking....my wife and friends won't admit they know me.


This is truly unpopular. And extremely dorky by all standards. I don't know you and if I did meet you I would be friendly and even if I enjoyed riding with you I would admit (adamantly) I didn't know you 😎


----------



## BacDoc (Aug 1, 2011)

BCSaltchucker said:


> yeah, we're actually 'cyclers'
> 
> that's what Joe Rogan calls us.


Technically speaking he's right!

Pros cycle their training "programs" to keep that biological passport looking "normal"
😎


----------



## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

blackfrancois said:


> i sold some recently for $75 on craigs. from a '71 lygie. zero rash on the cages. pretty rare.
> 
> i love how you can get a wrench on the cone. might make it the easiest component on the bike to adjust. the japanese copy, kkt pro ace, was the same way.
> 
> but, for me, i prefer the kkt top run. not nearly as blinging as campy, but more comfy ... and a lot closer to $22.


Haven't seen those KKT rat traps in a while. Nice pedals!

I bought MKS Sylvan from Velo Orange a few years ago. Bearings not quite as smooth as Campy Record, but they wear in and become nice and smooth. I've never worn out any bearings from too many miles, nor bent the spindles. The cages wear down under the cleat, or sooner or later crumple in a crash. They're now $32.00 at Velo Orange.


----------



## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

old_fuji said:


> Oh yeah? 'Brifter' is a clever portmanteau, entwined with a tasty hint of jargon...in other words, you gotta know just a little more about cycling than the average ranger to understand the complexities and wonderment of the word.


Ain't nothing like biking with my bros with brifters. 

Wrench, "cycling" is what your washing machine does, you know, like the "agitate" cycle.


----------



## factory feel (Nov 27, 2009)

BCSaltchucker said:


> yeah, we're actually 'cyclers'
> 
> that's what Joe Rogan calls us.


who is joe rogan

is he that stoner roid monkey?


----------



## Peter Lauridsen (Jun 22, 2013)

SPlKE said:


> That sounds great. I have a 12-23 Record 8 speed, but I so rarely use the 23 or even the one next to it, which is probably a 21 or 20, they look a lot newer than the others.


I have a single speed 52-14, but only for hills.


----------



## blackfrancois (Jul 6, 2016)

Fredrico said:


> Haven't seen those KKT rat traps in a while. Nice pedals!
> 
> ... I've never worn out any bearings from too many miles, nor bent the spindles.


yeah, good vintage pedals will last forever. in all my refurbs, i've only seen one bad axle (it crumbled from rust), and only two bad cones. unless the pedals are french, they can usually be repaired fairly easily.

it can be hard to find lock washers, though. new/nos campy ones can be found online, but a donor set of pedals might be needed for any others.

dust caps are another matter. i never buy pedals without proper dust caps.


----------



## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

9W9W said:


> Ooh, I've got a couple:
> 
> 1. Any person complaining about an uncomfortable saddle is riding on an ill fitted bike.
> 2. Most people are riding on ill fitted bikes
> ...


Wait, how do I remedy these situations? My saddle is slammed all the way back and tilted all the way down. I ride sprawled forward, and often get pains in my lower back that make me really tired after a shockingly short time on the bike.


----------



## kapusta (Apr 26, 2004)

.je said:


> Clif bars taste like particle board and jam.


That is not an opinion, it is a fact.


----------



## xxl (Mar 19, 2002)

kapusta said:


> That is not an opinion, it is a fact.


Yes. 

Yet curiously, Clif Bars are still the best-tasting energy bars. :idea:


----------



## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

blackfrancois said:


> yeah, good vintage pedals will last forever. in all my refurbs, i've only seen one bad axle (it crumbled from rust), and only two bad cones. unless the pedals are french, they can usually be repaired fairly easily.
> 
> it can be hard to find lock washers, though. new/nos campy ones can be found online, but a donor set of pedals might be needed for any others.
> 
> dust caps are another matter. i never buy pedals without proper dust caps.


I've gone through 3 or 4 sets of pedals and never threw any of the worn out ones away. If you need parts, I got 'em! :thumbsup: The only thing trashed out are the cages--and dust caps.:frown2: Oh well...


----------



## PJay (May 28, 2004)

blackfrancois said:


> in all my refurbs, i've only seen one bad axle (it crumbled from rust)


As the song says, One bad axle don't spoil a whole bunch of girls.


----------



## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

xxl said:


> Yes.
> 
> Yet curiously, Clif Bars are still the best-tasting energy bars. :idea:


Oh man, nobody's come out with something more tasty than Clif Bars? :frown2: How about Powerbars, or those honey waffles?

And for those epic 60+ mile rides, a nice sandwich, Westphalian ham, cream cheese and fruit preserves slathered between two pieces of substantial fresh bread, nicely marinating in the jersey pocket, so it goes immediately to work in your hungry gut and will get you home. :yesnod:

Cliff Bars just don't do it. :frown2:


----------



## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

For some reason, i found this thread (http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bikes-frames-forks/will-gt-grade-change-industry-325895-8.html) really annoying.


----------



## Bremerradkurier (May 25, 2012)

If you can count to four, you can build wheels.


----------



## Christine (Jul 23, 2005)

Different traffic laws should exist for cyclists. Like the "Idaho Stop" rule. We don't weigh as much or go nearly as fast as cars. 

If the goal is to discourage reckless cyclists, then let's get the cops on e-bikes so they can catch up to them. Start taking bike security more seriously, bigger fines for thieves and road-ragers.


----------



## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

Christine said:


> Different traffic laws should exist for cyclists. Like the "Idaho Stop" rule. We don't weigh as much or go nearly as fast as cars.
> 
> If the goal is to discourage reckless cyclists, then let's get the cops on e-bikes so they can catch up to them. Start taking bike security more seriously, bigger fines for thieves and road-ragers.


As a corollary, more education is a MUST! Yes, begin "discouraging" the flagrantly reckless cyclists; those who will blow stopsigns and stoplights at busy, heavily-trafficked intersections; those riding way too fast on the sidewalks (leave those to Granny on her towny or Junior on his Wally World BMX bike); those riding against the flow of traffic. Michigan has what's known as the 85% rule, for speeding cars...that is, 85% of traffic on a given stretch of road is going a certain speed, that speed becomes the defacto speed limit (and long-term, traffic surveys are done to adjust the posted speed limits to match 85% of traffic). I hate the rule, but it reduces nuisance stops and allows traffic cops to focus on the truly reckless...so, we should enforce laws in an intelligent manner. Let's not necessarily pick on the guy rolling a stop sign in East Jesus, Nowhere; but we should pick on the guy blowing the signals on 8th and Main at 5pm during rush hour.


----------



## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

old_fuji said:


> As a corollary, more education is a MUST! Yes, begin "discouraging" the flagrantly reckless cyclists; those who will blow stopsigns and stoplights at busy, heavily-trafficked intersections; those riding way too fast on the sidewalks (leave those to Granny on her towny or Junior on his Wally World BMX bike); those riding against the flow of traffic. Michigan has what's known as the 85% rule, for speeding cars...that is, 85% of traffic on a given stretch of road is going a certain speed, that speed becomes the defacto speed limit (and long-term, traffic surveys are done to adjust the posted speed limits to match 85% of traffic). I hate the rule, but it reduces nuisance stops and allows traffic cops to focus on the truly reckless...so, we should enforce laws in an intelligent manner. Let's not necessarily pick on the guy rolling a stop sign in East Jesus, Nowhere; but we should pick on the guy blowing the signals on 8th and Main at 5pm during rush hour.


It all has to do with respect. Police bicyclists a few years ago showed us how to do it on side walks. They'd move like pedestrians, doing little track stands to grant right of ways and go with the flow, politely blending with the traffic, and hitting the street whenever possible. Also dug the single speed messengers threading effortlessly through the gridlock like ballet dancers.

So agree. What's wrong with a slow roll through a stop sign if the way is clear?


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## .je (Aug 25, 2012)

Why is the 'Queen Stage' of a race called the 'Queen Stage', when everyone is wearing their regular kit? 
The 'Queen Stage', everyone should be all in drag. Then it's a 'Queen Stage'.


----------



## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

.je said:


> Why is the 'Queen Stage' of a race called the 'Queen Stage', when everyone is wearing their regular kit?
> The 'Queen Stage', everyone should be all in drag. Then it's a 'Queen Stage'.


Not bad. Nice strong beat to conquer the hills.

There were some women riders at the end. I guess those are the ones you're looking for.


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## .je (Aug 25, 2012)

Merida bikes would be awesome if sometimes they printed "*MIERDA*" instead.

Focus stands for *F*ck Off 'Cause Ur Screwed*.

If I have the choice between Bike Day and Beach Day, I'll _always _pick Beach Day.


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## 1500SLR (Sep 30, 2018)

Carbon bikes are overrated unless you're being paid to ride one... shots fired...


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## GlobalGuy (Jun 9, 2015)

1500SLR said:


> Carbon bikes are overrated unless you're being paid to ride one... shots fired...


Absolutely. Way overpriced too.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

1500SLR said:


> Carbon bikes are overrated unless you're being paid to ride one... shots fired...


Corollary: Steel is Real. Always has been, always will be.


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## sswitzky (Sep 16, 2018)

The most comfortable cycling jersey you can buy is made from wool.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

sswitzky said:


> The most comfortable cycling jersey you can buy is made from wool.


Merino wool? So true. But they sag when I weight down the pockets with wallet, keys, spare tube, and Powerbar. By mid-ride the weight is hanging off the butt like a load of...never mind.


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

Based on that other thread...

There is definitely a market for a drop-bar roadbike that costs $500


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## blackfrancois (Jul 6, 2016)

Fredrico said:


> Merino wool? ... they sag when I weigh down the pockets with wallet, keys, spare tube, and Powerbar. By mid-ride the weight is hanging off the butt like a load of...


someone needs a saddle bag.

amiright or amiright.


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## blackfrancois (Jul 6, 2016)

old_fuji said:


> There is definitely a market for a drop-bar roadbike that costs $500.


a fully overhauled (refurb'd) mid-level vintage chromoly road bike usually goes for about that.


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

blackfrancois said:


> a fully overhauled (refurb'd) mid-level vintage chromoly road bike usually goes for about that.


If you get really, really lucky, you can do it for around $125...certainly helps when you only pay $10 for the (made in US) frame.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

sswitzky said:


> The most comfortable cycling jersey you can buy is made from wool.


Yep.

Oregon Cyclewear - highest quality & best prices on merino wool cycling jerseys


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

velodog said:


> Yep.
> 
> Oregon Cyclewear - highest quality & best prices on merino wool cycling jerseys


Very nice. Those pockets wouldn't sag. The third one down would fit great.

Had a long sleeve wool jersey very much the same weight as those pictured. It retained heat enough to keep the core warm but never overheated, even at 70F. It wicked sweat away, shed rain water, and didn't sag. Had to go back to plastic because it made my back itchy. 

Oregon, huh? That's the place for 'em! :thumbsup:

Yes, there's a certain economy with materials riding vintage steel bikes and wearing wool jerseys. A far cry from synthetic plastics. 

Anyone see the latest Trek Madones? They look like they were designed in a computer with scientific stress analysis every inch of the way and modulus of elasticity to match. Quite a refinement from 1 inch CRMO tubes butted to lugs, no? And yet, the latter remains a viable choice, and just won't go away.


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## 1500SLR (Sep 30, 2018)

blackfrancois said:


> Good vintage pedals will last forever.


My SPD-SL pedals are 10 years old. That's the thing though they're 6600 SPDs and they have no carbon in them to break.



blackfrancois said:


> a fully overhauled (refurb'd) mid-level vintage chromoly road bike usually goes for about that.


My fully overhauled 1500 SLR went for $400 with less than 10,000 original kms on it. It's one of my favorite bikes I've ever ridden. Mind you I spent about another $500 updating it to 6770 DI2. I built it mostly because I got bored of my steel steed which is a Giant Kronos with a full SRAM Rival gruppo.


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## Bremerradkurier (May 25, 2012)

old_fuji said:


> Based on that other thread...
> 
> There is definitely a market for a drop-bar roadbike that costs $500


Watch your local Craigslist like a hawk-scored a low mileage sharkfin Madone with full Ultegra 10 speed for my teenage son for $600.


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## sswitzky (Sep 16, 2018)

If the fit is spot on, custom titanium is worth it.


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## 1500SLR (Sep 30, 2018)

sswitzky said:


> If the fit is spot on, custom titanium is worth it.


One of these days I will own a titanium bike.


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## .je (Aug 25, 2012)

Sometimes the quality of conversation among roadies and on roadie forums is barely different from rec.autos.tech, honda-tech.com, or vwvortex.com (you know who you are).


----------



## thisisthebeave (Aug 30, 2015)

Never rotate tires

when the rear wears out, toss it, move front to rear, and put new one up front. Rear flat is a lot easier to not crash with so IMO always have your best tire up front


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## GlobalGuy (Jun 9, 2015)

thisisthebeave said:


> Rear flat is a lot easier to not crash with so IMO always have your best tire up front


Amen.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

thisisthebeave said:


> Never rotate tires
> 
> when the rear wears out, toss it, move front to rear, and put new one up front. Rear flat is a lot easier to not crash with so IMO always have your best tire up front


Great idea if you get lots of cuts or have soft, grippy compounds, but many of us are lazy.

If the rear's worn down, why not put the new tire there? The tread will wear down 2 times faster than the front. The mid-priced Conti rubber I run gets harder each year. They seldom get too many cuts after the first year. On the front, the sidewalls will start to de-thread before the tread is worn out. 

Most of my flats are rear wheel, so I'd just as soon have the best tire there as a deterrent. Can't remember the last time I've had a front blowout. Results vary according to mileage of course. Racers used to age tires a year before racing on them.


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## larghio (Oct 9, 2018)

My behind only accepts brooks leather saddles on rides > 20 minutes. b15 on my road bikes. b17 on the rest
I love internally geared hubs and belt drive. 
I love silent bikes


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

pmf said:


> Aero bars on a mountain bike -- I've only seen it once, but the humor value was not lost. The guy even had knobby tires.


Not only have I seen them on mountain bikes but I've seen them used on bikes where the handlebars were higher than the saddle.


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

velodog said:


> Not only have I seen them on mountain bikes but I've seen them used on bikes where the handlebars were higher than the saddle.


Those are always good for a chuckle, aren't they? A full-suspension Walmart-type MTB with bar ends...and an aero bar clipped on.





Unpopular opinion that I myself need to subscribe to:
It's just a damn bike. Put yer ass on the seat and pedal.


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## xxl (Mar 19, 2002)

Fredrico said:


> ...If the rear's worn down, why not put the new tire there?...


Because: "Rear flat is a lot easier to not crash with...."

See the ghost of Sheldon Brown for more: https://sheldonbrown.com/tire-rotation.html


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## Sojodave (Apr 7, 2015)

There needs to be more tall jersey options...Yes, I went there, I'm edgy...


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## AndreSF (Sep 23, 2013)

sun sleeves. disc brakes. tubeless tires.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

xxl said:


> Because: "Rear flat is a lot easier to not crash with...."
> 
> See the ghost of Sheldon Brown for more: https://sheldonbrown.com/tire-rotation.html


Well, I've just never had a problem leaving the old tire on front and changing out the rear when the tread gets really thin. The tread stays round up front 3 x longer than rear, so I've always found it relatively safer from cuts and punctures than the rear. Plus after a year, the touring rubber I've used gets very cut resistant.

Can't remember last time I had a flat in front. Results may vary, of course, but I'm too lazy to switch old front to rear when renewing rubber, only to slightly reduce the slight risk of flatting the front. If I got lots of flats, I'd probably change my tune. The roads I ride on are pretty clean. Gatorskins are very cut resistant. They hold up for a long time. :yesnod:

Such is my unpopular biking opinion. 

The bicycle industry attracts Gyro Gearloose types who want to re-invent the wheel. I go with what works best for riding my weight on city streets. 

When that article was written probably 30 years ago, rubber compounds weren't quite as cut resistant as today's new and improved. Hear tell even the grippier racing tires are now quite flat resistant. They make up for the soft rubber with kevlar laminations, so these tires still wear out considerably faster than Gatorskins and such, IME. :yesnod: And hey, with these gravel tires, cut resistance is even less of an issue. :thumbsup:


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## sswitzky (Sep 16, 2018)

Roadie’s aren’t a**holes!


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

Bike_Dogter said:


> And I like my expensive helmet because *MIPS works*. I crashed last year and put a crack through the helmet but not the head. I went out and bought the same helmet again.


Your experience with MIPS is completely irrelevant to your claim that it works. I am however, very glad to hear you are OK after a crash.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

SwiftSolo said:


> Ain't nothing like biking with my bros with brifters.
> 
> Wrench, "cycling" is what your washing machine does, you know, like the "agitate" cycle.


Cycling? It’s what you do when you suffer from bi-polar disorder.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

sswitzky said:


> If the fit is spot on, custom titanium is worth it.


Why do riders want heavier bikes on purpose? OK, blackfrancois will eventually have me making an offer on one his vintage restorations... he does beautiful work! But only for the interest/curiosity level of riding steel and downtube. And again, he does amazing work. For an everyday ride where you go after PRs and train hard and push yourself... Why would you want a heavy bike when you can have a light one? Cycling is, in many ways, about climbing. Why would anyone want to drag a 25lb bike up a hill when they could pedal a 16lb bike instead? Weight matters. How much it matters is a personal thing, but it matters and it matters a lot.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Here's a good one...….I use White lightening chain lube because I get insane amounts of chain and cassette life.


Oh no you don’t! You use surgically precise applications of lube thinned by extra OMS!


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## Wheelspeed (Nov 3, 2006)

Gloss paint is faster than satin or flat.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Wheelspeed said:


> Gloss paint is faster than satin or flat.


Orange in either finish is fastest.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

SPlKE said:


> Orange in either finish is fastest.


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## .je (Aug 25, 2012)

Am I a bad person if I think that fat biking in the winter is _really boring_?


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

.je said:


> Am I a bad person if I think that fat biking in the winter is _really boring_?


If you gotta ask, yes.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

.je said:


> Am I a bad person if I think that fat biking in the winter is _really boring_?


With or without snow?


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

.je said:


> Am I a bad person if I think that fat biking in the winter is _really boring_?


I think it's something I _might_ enjoy... but so far, I'm not willing to invest the money for the bike and the cold-weather kit to find out I'm wrong.


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## kapusta (Apr 26, 2004)

.je said:


> Am I a bad person if I think that fat biking in the winter is _really boring_?


No, but you are for saying it :^>

Beats the heck out of riding an indoor trainer.


----------



## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

Hiro11 said:


> My mostly retrogrouch / Grant Peterson inspired opinions:
> 1. Bike weight under 20 lbs doesn't matter. Weight weenieism is a bizarre, counterproductive and pointless obsession.
> 2. Aero wheels and aero frames make zero difference in the real world.
> 3. Internal cabling sucks.
> ...


Let's see. I just bought (among other cycling-related things) a Giant Defy Advanced Pro 0. This bike:
1. Weighs about 17 pounds
2. Has a (slightly) aero carbon wheelset
3. Has every cable routed internally from the levers all the way to the caliper / derailleur
4. Is definitely not a steel rando bike
5. Has an extremely stiff bottom bracket
6. Can fit 32mm tires, but I not going to ever ride it in a gravel event.
7. I bought an expensive new helmet to go with the bike.
8. Has sealed bearing hubs with DT Swiss internals.
9. I also bought a bunch of fancy, 6" cycling-specific socks
10. Has a wedge seatpost design
11. Come stock, out of the box with tubeless road tires set up tubeless on tubeless-ready rims.
12. I also bought a pair of very fancy and very stiff carbon-soled shoes.
13. I also bought a pair of Ultegra 8000 SPD-SL carbon road pedals. In fairness I've been using similar pedals since the 80s.

...so yeah. I'm a complete hypocrite. 

I bought a bike that ridiculously has two sets of firmware (power meter and Di2) both of which use crappy, constantly crashing apps to manage. I bought a bike I have no idea how to work on. A bike that even adjusting the seatpost requires a torque wrench and immense care. A bike with motors (in the derailleurs) and batteries. A bike that is so complicated that lowering the stem is a several hour process only to be completed by an experienced mechanic. A bike where even moderately truing the wheels would involve several hours of work (hidden nipples on a tubeless setup). A bike that is head-to-toe carbon. A bike that has (gasp) a press fit bottom bracket.

Guess what, I love it. It's like an immense comfortable rocket ship with a perfectly-operating and effortless drivetrain, immensely powerful and well modulated brakes and nice, clean aesthetics.


----------



## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

I have a few bikes which you could call "classic" (although at least one is a NEO-classic..), so you'd think I love downtube shifters, but I don't. Being 6'3" tall, I only ride large frames, and let me tell you, the downtube is a LONG way away on a 24"+ frame! So, I convert the frame to bar-end shifters, which causes other problems, namely finding a cable casing long enough to gou under the tape, down the longer headtube and downtube, etc....


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## ogre (Dec 16, 2005)

No Time Toulouse said:


> ...finding a cable casing long enough to gou under the tape, down the longer headtube and downtube, etc....


Your LBS most likely has housing in 100 ft spools and can cut to whatever length you need.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*Bah, humbug!*



Hiro11 said:


> Let's see. I just bought (among other cycling-related things) a Giant Defy Advanced Pro 0. This bike:
> 1. Weighs about 17 pounds
> 2. Has a (slightly) aero carbon wheelset
> 3. Has every cable routed internally from the levers all the way to the caliper / derailleur
> ...


Have fun for now; don't forget the video camera! But keep that rando bike tuned up for the days the batteries die, the gears won't shift, the BB gets loose, wheel can't be trued after hitting a nasty bump, the tubeless tires leak, or it might rain. :nono:

If you want the pure experience of manual biking, don't want to call for a car when stuck out in the middle of nowhere, take the rando bike. Ask the fixie rider how he feels about his bike. 

Dump the bike in three years, when it starts to crack at the joints, the electronics goes kaput, you can't fix it anymore; consider the depreciation in value the cost of high tech.

Brother Grant is right on. Manufacturers are trying to market bikes like cars. No equivalency there, other than both roll down the road on wheels.


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

Fredrico said:


> Have fun for now; don't forget the video camera! But keep that rando bike tuned up for the days the batteries die, the gears won't shift, the BB gets loose, wheel can't be trued after hitting a nasty bump, the tubeless tires leak, or it might rain. :nono:
> 
> If you want the pure experience of manual biking, don't want to call for a car when stuck out in the middle of nowhere, take the rando bike. Ask the fixie rider how he feels about his bike.
> 
> ...


Pah, live a little.

I've got lots of bikes. I kept my old Ti road bike with standard-sized, metal everything, a simple mechanical drivetrain, cup-and-cone hubs and a threaded BB. I also have a relatively new Reynolds 631 gravel bike with a similarly foolproof setup... and a simple and high quality steel single-speed road bike... and several mountain bikes. I love them all. I got this new bike to experience something very modern on the road. It will be a fair weather, smooth roads type of ride.


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## blackfrancois (Jul 6, 2016)

black jorts.


----------



## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

ogre said:


> Your LBS most likely has housing in 100 ft spools and can cut to whatever length you need.


Oh, yeah, the CHEAP housing. But not the good kind....


----------



## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

I think cyclists waving to each other is dumb. "Look, I'm on a bike and you're on a bike! Yay! Hi! Wee!" Whatever. Do you feel the need to wave at every car you drive past? Having said that I always wave back. I'm not a total d!ck.


----------



## craiger_ny (Jun 24, 2014)

Probably another unpopular opinion of mine:

I hate clean white bar tape. I have one bike that I put white bar tape on but I feel embarrassed every time I ride it until it gets dirty. I love dirty white bar tape.


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## desaljs (Jun 5, 2015)

I use SPD pedals and mountain shoes on all my bikes, and don't give a damn!

I also enjoy showing up at an event ride, and getting stomped on by the local Sasquash who shows up in flip flops, and rides away from everyone.


----------



## DennisM (Sep 12, 2012)

craiger_ny said:


> Probably another unpopular opinion of mine:
> 
> I hate clean white bar tape. I have one bike that I put white bar tape on but I feel embarrassed every time I ride it until it gets dirty. I love dirty white bar tape.


The same with clean white shoes. They need to look like they have been used a little.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

DennisM said:


> The same with clean white shoes. They need to look like they have been used a little.


And the saddle needs to show wear also. And if the tires are white walled or skin walled they look better dirty also. A bike looks better when it looks like it's being ridden and not fresh off the showroom.


----------



## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

oh and if it's raining, ride your bike in it, plastic, metal and rubber are mostly waterproof. 
It's raining here today, so that is my challenge to myself.


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

kiwisimon said:


> oh and if it's raining, ride your bike in it, plastic, metal and rubber are mostly waterproof.
> It's raining here today, so that is my challenge to myself.


A couple of good rain rides will stain white or tan or skinwall tires real good, and besides that...

Rain don't hurt 'cause there ain't no soap in it.


----------



## blackfrancois (Jul 6, 2016)

PBL450 said:


> For an everyday ride where you ... train hard and push yourself... Why would you want a heavy bike when you can have a light one? ... Why would anyone want to drag a 25lb bike up a hill when they could pedal a 16lb bike instead?


you want to "train hard," but not that hard, right?

htfu!


----------



## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

blackfrancois said:


> you want to "train hard," but not that hard, right?
> 
> htfu!


Exactly! You should train on a 3 speed banana seat Huffy or your training is sh!t. Forget simply wanting to get to the top of climbs as fast as possible. We should drag a sailboat anchor behind us if we are serious. Beyond that 30 pound bikes are great for us. Elite tour riders often say, after killing a climbing stage, they just wished their bike was a few pounds heavier.


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

PBL450 said:


> Exactly! You should train on a 3 speed banana seat Huffy or your training is sh!t. Forget simply wanting to get to the top of climbs as fast as possible. We should drag a sailboat anchor behind us if we are serious. Beyond that 30 pound bikes are great for us. Elite tour riders often say, after killing a climbing stage, they just wished their bike was a few pounds heavier.


What are you training for?

If you're training to race against others every benefit is needed, but if you're training or riding for PR's, or just pushing yourself, it doesn't matter, because your competition is riding the same bike.


----------



## blackfrancois (Jul 6, 2016)

PBL450 said:


> Exactly! You should train on a 3 speed banana seat Huffy or your training is sh!t. Forget simply wanting to get to the top of climbs as fast as possible. We should drag a sailboat anchor behind us if we are serious. Beyond that 30 pound bikes are great for us. Elite tour riders often say, after killing a climbing stage, they just wished their bike was a few pounds heavier.


love these leaps in uh ... "logic."

the bikes they rode in the 1984 tdf are like 3-speed huffys and dragging a boat anchor. just like that. those guys really were super human.


----------



## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

blackfrancois said:


> love these leaps in uh ... "logic."
> 
> the bikes they rode in the 1984 tdf are like 3-speed huffys and dragging a boat anchor. just like that. those guys really were super human.


Well, these bikes in '84 weighed 21# with tubulars, so the handicap is only a few pounds! Quite amazing, isn't it, those men of steel actually made it up the mountains on those things with 42-24 lowest gears, "for the mountains?"

When I "raced," just riding the 24# commuter with 28mm tires made the legs stronger on the 21# racing bike and 25mm tires. The "training effect" provided a magical increase in leg strength, about like EPO, I imagined. Notice how racers often throw off water bottles just before a difficult climb?


----------



## nealric (Jul 5, 2007)

blackfrancois said:


> you want to "train hard," but not that hard, right?
> 
> htfu!


There's something about a lighter bike that makes me want to train harder than a heavy bike. 

My commuter bike is super heavy (30+lbs), and I tend not to exert myself much on it - and not just because I'm commuting. I've done the occasional longer ride non-commute, and it just doesn't reward effort like my 17lb road bike does. YMMV.


----------



## blackfrancois (Jul 6, 2016)

nealric said:


> My commuter bike is super heavy (30+lbs), and I tend not to exert myself much on it.


yeah, i wouldn't want to ride that one either.


----------



## dir-t (Oct 14, 2005)

nealric said:


> There's something about a lighter bike that makes me want to train harder than a heavy bike.


Same here. My new mtn bike is a lightweight climbing machine compared to my old one and I find myself attacking hills a lot more often now. Like you said, the lighter bike rewards those efforts more so I'm more inclined to take them on.


----------



## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

blackfrancois said:


> love these leaps in uh ... "logic."
> 
> the bikes they rode in the 1984 tdf are like 3-speed huffys and dragging a boat anchor. just like that. those guys really were super human.



Sure, it’s an exaggerated reply but the principle is exactly the same. Use a POS boat anchor heavy bike to improve your training with legit racing bikes that weigh 10lbs less.. your reply begged that response. “Ride a heavy bike to train harder.” It’s a ridiculous preposition in some ways. Not much more ridiculous than dragging the boat anchor. Again, elite world tour climbers often complain about the bikes being too light? Ever? Once ever? One time, even close to once ever?


----------



## blackfrancois (Jul 6, 2016)

PBL450 said:


> Use a POS boat anchor heavy bike.


why would you do that? i don't.



> Ride a heavy bike to train harder.


i wouldn't do that either. i'd ride the perfectly tuned bike i felt like riding. They just happen to be steel, like the ones ridden in the tdf for some thirty years. 

of course, mine happen to have a bit lower gearing.


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

PBL450 said:


> Sure, it’s an exaggerated reply but the principle is exactly the same. Use a POS boat anchor heavy bike to improve your training with legit racing bikes that weigh 10lbs less.. your reply begged that response. “Ride a heavy bike to train harder.” It’s a ridiculous preposition in some ways. Not much more ridiculous than dragging the boat anchor. Again, elite world tour climbers often complain about the bikes being too light? Ever? Once ever? One time, even close to once ever?


Have you ever ridden a high end steel bike with down tube shifters, with any kind of shifters? Reading your posts on the subject I would hazard a guess that you haven't, and I'm going to suggest that you do. There's a lot more to a bicycle than being the lightest one and you owe it to yourself to see what is on offer. You might be surprised.


----------



## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

velodog said:


> There's a lot more to a bicycle than being the lightest one and you owe it to yourself to see what is on offer. You might be surprised.


So true. 

I've ridden lighter bikes that don't respond all that well on climbs, canceling out their weight advantage. The two Columbus SL/SLX/SP bikes I ride climb like bandits, despite weighing 22 and 24 pounds. Plenty light enough for a nice responsive ride. 

Sure, a +30# mountain bike with heavy tires and shock absorber isn't going to feel sprightly on the climbs, but up to the low 20#s, the legs overcome the slight weight handicap, compensated for with a responsive frame and strong, stiff wheels. 

Gravel bikes are coming in at 24-26# and riders are touting them as "do everything" bikes, entirely capable of keeping up on a club ride--on 25-28mm tires. They'd only be a slight handicap in an all-out race, and even then, not significant if you keep your pulls short.


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Fredrico said:


> So true.
> 
> I've ridden lighter bikes that don't respond all that well on climbs, canceling out their weight advantage. The two Columbus SL/SLX/SP bikes I ride climb like bandits, despite weighing 22 and 24 pounds. *Plenty light enough for a nice responsive ride*.


This.

When I hear folks deriding steel bikes as heavy and flexy I'm reminded of the early days of crabon bikes being derided for their dead ride.

Stiffness for the sake of stiffness serves no good purpose. Bikes used to be applauded for their "lively" ride, but that's not something that is much spoken for much any more, and that's too bad. After a good hard ride my legs feel fresher if I've been riding a lively frame than they do after riding a stiff frame.

There's a difference between riding a high end steel bike and something like a Surly. Not to deride the Surly, but it's been built to be indestructible not to have the lively responsive ride of something like an old steel DeRosa or Cinelli.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

velodog said:


> This.
> 
> When I hear folks deriding steel bikes as heavy and flexy I'm reminded of the early days of crabon bikes being derided for their dead ride.
> 
> ...


Steel is real. 

I'm a giant fan of Columbus and Tange double and triple butted cromoly frames. 

My current daily ride is a 1997 LeMonde Columbus steel bike. Light, stiff (not too stiff), responsive on flats, standing climbs, and fast descents.

Might I like another frame material better? Carbon, titanium, aluminum? I ride with guys on all those frames. They never express their love for their frames the way I do.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

velodog said:


> This.
> 
> When I hear folks deriding steel bikes as heavy and flexy I'm reminded of the early days of crabon bikes being derided for their dead ride.
> 
> ...


The feedback loop as the miles add up becomes exquisite, feelings heightened by fatigue. Always feel slightly beat up on the long point lugged SLX commuter after a few hour ride. The internal rifling on the seat tube and down tube, the stout SP chain stays, the sloping fork crown, and long point lugs, makes the ride ever so slightly harsher as the miles add up. Load up the frame with panniers, and it rides like a '56 Cadillac, still responsive, but smooth as silk. 

The short point lugged SL DeRosa, curiously with an SLX seat tube, but with SL all around, pinched chain stays, flat fork crown which absorbs shocks better than an elastomer shock absorber because it doesn't blunt road feel, leaves the legs, arms, hands, just fresh enough at mile 90, to go hard at the end. In moments of anguish the bike always seems to call, "Come on, paisano! Yer gonna make it!" The 75 degree head tube gives it very sensitive steering, but above 30 mph on the descents, it handles like a motorcycle. 

The ride quality is all in the frame. Hear tell high end carbon bikes approach the feel of steel, and many pretenders don't. Back when steel was king, many cheaper steel bikes were either too flippy or too stiff, same as today's carbon and aluminum, only heavier. It takes skill to get it just right. When builder gets it right, the slight weight handicap is irrelevant.


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