# Super Six vs. R3: Ride Comparison



## uscsig51 (May 7, 2006)

I was able to take out both a Super Six and R3 for a quick loop this morning.

My quick impression is that both offer similar stiffness in the bottom bracket and both go up well, however the Super Six seemed slightly smoother on the flats and did not have as much rode vibration as the R3. The R3 seems to provide more of a "Roubaix" type geometry and setup vs. the Super Six. The R3 seems like it is built more for comfort and climbing, while the Super Six may offer a little bit more on the overall package rather than for one specific purpose.

Anyone have similar or different experiences when trying to compare these two frames?


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## derrickhackman (Jul 28, 2008)

i thew a leg over my soon-to-be new super six and i can tell you that without even riding it that it is all business. it feels a lot like my litespeed ultimate and a little less 'piss-in-your-face' than my look 585.... again all this is without riding it just position :thumbsup:


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## uscsig51 (May 7, 2006)

Less "piss-in-your-face" Look 585? Please expand, since I currently have a 585? I only took the Super Six out for a quick loop and plan on going back for a longer test ride.


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## derrickhackman (Jul 28, 2008)

ya, how that was suppose to come out was ... the look 585 doesn't feel as aggressive as the S6. my 585 (MY 2006) feels more like my old kg481SL and has more of a euro road feel ... which is actually pretty nice. the S6 feels more like a steeper, quicker, snappier beast. that is what i was getting at ... the S6 would be happy to piss in your face whilst the 585, being more euro sophisticated really doesn't.


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## STARNUT (Jun 19, 2005)

DH (if I can call him that) is correct about the ride of the R3 and the Super. Well, at least I agree with him. 

At any rate, there is a very good reason that the R3 and S6 are very similar in ride quality. The first is that the R family of Cervelos and the S6 are the only current, non full monoquoque, bikes produced that have the BB area and the stays built as a solid unit. Both bikes have a very rigid drvietrain due to this. It's a pretty big deal; that construction elimiates a joint at the BB area.

Outside of that the R3 is a little lighter. The S6 has a huge bearing for the headtube. The Cervelo achieves HT stiffness with carbon layup and the S6 with sheer size. Both method are effective. The Cervelo is entirely dependent on a fork to help create a stable and and precise front end while the Cannondale has the giant bearing for stiffness.

While the R3 is lighter, the older model was stuck with the goofy seatpost size and has a standard BB. The S6 is a standard size and has BB30, thus the option for hollowgram cranks. The net being the S6 could/can be/ has been built lighter than the R3 with the same arts because of the cranks and the post. Now the new R3s went to a 27.2 for a post solving that issue.

As for ride; it's pretty hard to pay $3000 for a frame and not have it ride well, except for a Storck :lol:. The differences are subtle and small as would be expected because of the similar construction method. Speaking for the point of view of actually owning an R3 _and_ a Super 6; I prefer the Super. It's not better, it's just different from the R3. If had to keep only one and it had to be the R3, I would not be disappointed. Moreover, I actually owned a 585 as well. DHs comment are spot on about handling. The newest look model(s) that are directly equalivilant the the S6/R3 would be the 586. It is constructed in a _very_ similar manner and has a very similar ride. I had one for about a month to try and it was one of the nicest riding bikes I've thrown a leg over. Why not the 595 you ask? It's is still a lugged construction and is significantly stiffer and (unless you're a big dude) rougher ride than the 586, S6, or the R3. The lugs change the ride and to make it stiff they had to add material and thus weight. Which is why the 595 weighs more than the 586 and the reason the 586 is the lightest frame they make when you take a seatpost into account. The 586 is the best Look ever made; hands down.

Another note, the geometries are totally different and one may or may not fit you. Barring a fit issue, both are great bikes.

Starnut


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## uscsig51 (May 7, 2006)

Great info.

As a larger rider, I'm thinking I may get more out of the Super Six than my 585, now that I've been on my 585 for a couple of years. It's a great bike, just need a little more out of the drivetrain. As pointed out, the S6 offers some newer technologies over the 585. I certainly feel like it has a better drivetrain than the 585 (stiffer) and offers better climbing transfer. The S6 also seems to have received better marks from Tour Magazine vs. the Look 595 Ultra. 

Any word on the 2009 Super Six Hi-Mod? I'm assuming a little lighter and stiffer?


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## derrickhackman (Jul 28, 2008)

starnut, yeah you can call me DH :thumbsup: 

with respect to the high-mod frame ... the 2008 is actually a high-mod frame and is really the same frame as the 2009 with the exception of how they join the rear triangle to the front triangle. the reason for why they changed the process.. likely due to cost more than anything ... they probably refined the manufacturing process a bit and made it easier thereby saving cost .. this is my *assumption* anyhow.

i heard that the '09's are starting to be built in December and there are different sizes being built on different dates so I would not expect to see anything until the new year.

for what it is worth, i just got the 2008 S6 rather than waiting on the 2009 ... the changes are not that deep and it was good to hear starnut confirm this ... as well as my LBS.


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## STARNUT (Jun 19, 2005)

I can't tell a difference between them (the 08 and 09) but I'm not that big. A larger rider may be able to tell but I seriously doubt it based on what I know about the 08 and the large dudes I have that ride it.

My Cannondale rep would probably shoot me if he saw me say that :lol: Gotta' sell sell sell baby!

Starnut


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## derrickhackman (Jul 28, 2008)

yeah, in season weight for me is like 158lbs ... 160lbs so i don't imagine i am a big guy. :thumbsup:


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## uscsig51 (May 7, 2006)

Here is a response I received from Cannondale Customer Service, 

"The 2009 Supersix Hi-mod is on average 150 grams lighter than
the 2008 version, and the higher modulus carbon improved the bottom
bracket torsional stiffness, while vertical compliance stayed about the
same."


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## STARNUT (Jun 19, 2005)

bah.......... they're lieing :lol:


If thats the case (it ain't) then the 2010 bike is going to 600 grams (it's not).

I'll buy 25-50 but not a 150. Maybe they took the weight of a Super 6 in a 63 with white paint and a 48 HM with no paint. I'd take that, but not 150 per-size not even an average.

I love Cannondale and sell the crap out of them and own two myself but................... no.

Starnut


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## derrickhackman (Jul 28, 2008)

i put the bike on the scale at the shop ... this was a bone stock 2008 S6 1 with durace and mavic ksyrium sl's... i also threw on some look keo (cro-mo spindels) and the weight was a whopping 15.5 lbs. so you really think i care about 150 grams :thumbsup: 

also, the stiffness.... i raced my old circa 1994 litespeed ultimate in a crit this year and had a decent finish in the sprint ... you think the S6 is stiffer than the ultimate ... yep :thumbsup: 

bottom line is yes the '09 may be better than the '08 but is is doubtful it will matter 1 bit when someone is pulling your lungs through your eyes on a hard paceline.


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