# “A Suggestion for a Cyclist . . .”



## Killroy (Feb 9, 2006)

I was commuting to work this thick foggy morning close to dawn --so it was still somewhat dark, especially in the fog. At a red light a lady motorist rolls up to me in the lane next to me with the window rolled down and said, “Can I make a suggestion for a cyclist?”
“Yeah,” I said.
“You really should have one of those bright yellow jackets because its really hard to see you with that dinky light in this fog.” 
Half way though her “suggestion” the light turns green and we are both parked at a green light in the fog, which is not a good place to be, so I say “OK” and ride off.

I ride away miffed thinking about what she said because I think that I do more than enough to be visible even in dark fog, but I have to take it seriously. When I got to a quiet residential neighborhood, I pulled over, leaned my bike against tree and took a hike back to see how visible my bike was in this fog. Even in the fog, my new Bike Planet rear flasher was performing well. –And it should be because I bought it specifically because on a ride I noticed how bright it was on another bike that was more than a ½ mile away. 










I also have these drop- bar end flashers to help outline the width of me an my rig.









In front, I have the new, ultra bight, Baja Designs Styker. 








I may not have a "day glow" jacket, but I do have numerous reflectors on my tires, shoes, tights, jacket, messenger bag. I have a a all white helmet, big silver fenders, and shiny components, so I'm not exactly stealthy.








(not me)

I know I am not as big and visible as a car, but I find it hard to believe that someone would make a suggestion like this. She made the the suggestion as delicately as possible, but it's hard to take. I wonder if this person is a cyclist or not and she knows what it is like to bike commute. I speculate that this motorist needs to actively look harder for road users other than other cars and drive at speeds appropriate for difficult road conditions. I'm just not a fan of hard shells and "day glow". I'm always been more of a believer in active lighting, reflectors then bright colors.


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## Hollywood (Jan 16, 2003)

there's all kinds out there.

I'll take her over the douche on the sportbike who pulled up right next to me... on a bombing descent!!! to tell me "Get off the road Motherf**ker!"

nobody else was around. Nice.

anyway. Your story doesn't surprise me. There's all kind of newbs and "helpers" out there. Keep on keepin' on.


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## |3iker (Jan 12, 2010)

*Always assume you are invisible as in not being seen!*

I have those items you listed plus I wear a bright red windbreaker and a reflective vest commonly worn by road side workers.
No blinky Planet Bike light beats a beam of 1800 lumen from a headlight hitting a reflective vest. Its the sheer amount of reflectivity real estate that a blinky light just cannot match.


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## rcnute (Dec 21, 2004)

Eh, whatta ya gonna do. I livened up my commuting ensemble by putting reflective tape on my fenders and using a Sam Browne belt.


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## twinkles (Apr 23, 2007)

I think J Peterman has a hi vis puffy shirt in the latest catalog.


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## seeborough (Feb 3, 2004)

Two of the lads and I were riding on a local road one day when a car stopped, turned around and pulled up next to us. The driver rolled down the window and said:" Guys, can I suggest you do not ride on this road at this time of day? I came over the hill back there and almost ran into you because I absolute could not see you in the glare."
We thought about it for a minute and realized that the guy was right. The sun was low and we were right in it. We turned off at the next reasonable opportunity and have not ridden that road in that direction in the late afternoon since. 

If a driver cannot see you, stops and politely points that out to you, I would do something about that. The next guy might not give a damn...


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

Killroy said:


> I was commuting to work this thick foggy morning close to dawn --so it was still somewhat dark, especially in the fog. At a red light a lady motorist rolls up to me in the lane next to me with the window rolled down and said, “Can I make a suggestion for a cyclist?”
> “Yeah,” I said.
> “You really should have one of those bright yellow jackets because its really hard to see you with that dinky light in this fog.”
> Half way though her “suggestion” the light turns green and we are both parked at a green light in the fog, which is not a good place to be, so I say “OK” and ride off.
> ...


Reflectors don't work in the daytime, and light efficacy goes way down as well. You will be seen better in bright colors. It doesn't mean you won't be safe without them, just that you will be safer with them.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

seeborough said:


> Two of the lads and I were riding on a local road one day when a car stopped, turned around and pulled up next to us. The driver rolled down the window and said:" Guys, can I suggest you do not ride on this road at this time of day? I came over the hill back there and almost ran into you because I absolute could not see you in the glare."
> We thought about it for a minute and realized that the guy was right. The sun was low and we were right in it. We turned off at the next reasonable opportunity and have not ridden that road in that direction in the late afternoon since.
> 
> If a driver cannot see you, stops and politely points that out to you, I would do something about that. The next guy might not give a damn...


It's hard to compete with the sun. That's part of situational awareness.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

She's right, and she made her suggestion politely. You can take her advice or not, as you see fit, but there's no reason for you to be miffed, IMHO. Your lights and reflectors are great, and very important, and you're to be commended for using them. But a bright yellow jacket would make you even more visible, especially in foggy semi-dark conditions, one of the most hazardous situations for visibility. White or very light clothing is good in the dark, but doesn't stand out well in the fog.



> I'm just not a fan of hard shells and "day glow". I'm always been more of a believer in active lighting, reflectors then bright colors.


It's not an either-or choice; they all help.


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## wi_bigfoot (Jul 19, 2009)

I would agree with the others above. Don't be miffed. Take it as she couldn't see you. Maybe it was her and her eye sight. Perhaps other peoples eyes are better and can see you more. Who knows. Point is she couldn't see you so you can look at it as a good point and take one more step to protect yourself or if you feel comfortable in what you have then just keep that. At least she was nice enough to point out you couldn't be seen.


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## commutenow (Sep 26, 2004)

After a shoulder replacement due to an accident on a bike which btw was my own doing I wear a bright green bike jacket and have my light because if I get hit by a car my shoulder would be in a bad way.


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## saf-t (Sep 24, 2008)

I'm running a Mars 4.0 and 2 Planet bike blinkies in back- and wear an orange Illuminte jacket, along with a pair of yellow reflective ankle bands. Ain't no such thing as too visible.

As for the "riding into low-angle sun" issue, I change my route in the winter to avoid a particularly bad stretch of road on the way to work- realized when driving it that seeing cars was a challenge, let alone a bike, and I keep my windshield clean, unlike many of the other cars I see.


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

She was polite and she didn't hit you or call you names.

I'd consider that one a win and leave it at that.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

any interaction with a motorist that doesn't involve profanity, threats, or projectiles is a total success.

no reason for any attitude on your part.


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## rayhead00 (Mar 3, 2009)

I've had nearly the same interaction. I've got the front and rear lites, blinkies, reflective tape and sidewalls, but I have a dark jacket and knickers. I said something snarky back to the motorist...then I felt bad. Since then I've added a 1 1/2 inch reflective strip to my back and leg cuffs. I still can't bear to get a day-glo jacket.


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## m_s (Nov 20, 2007)

The idealist in me would like to somewhat snarkily point out that in all of the cases mentioned it is not the presence of the cyclist that creates the dangerous situation, but rather the car/driver. Again, _ideally_, the onus should be on the operator of the potentially deadly machine to be aware of their limitations and take measures to correct for them. Riding while under-lit on a street with only bikes and pedestrians is significantly less dangerous than if there are cars present.

Therefore, perhaps a reasonable response to the driver who suggested that seeborough not ride at that time of day would be to question whether he (the driver) should be driving at that time of day if they could not see. But that fact that apparently responsibility is the cyclist's reinforces the idea that cars have the right of way, always.

That said, I completely understand the practical reason for being situationally aware and taking precautions to save ones own skin. I do it. We all do. I'm certainly not suggesting anyone become a martyr.


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## Killroy (Feb 9, 2006)

I just bought this Traffic Master jersey. I no longer do mediocrity.








Universal Vehicle Code on sleeve


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## Loraura (Jun 30, 2008)

I had 3 red blinkies on this morning, and it wasn't foggy. One PB like yours on my backpack. Another on my seat bag. A different one on my seat tube below the seat bag.

I light up like a Christmas tree in the mornings. People haven't had their coffee, have screaming toddlers in the back of the minivan, are on cell phones, are EMAILING FROM THEIR CELL PHONES.... while driving.

I've often considered telling poorly lit cyclists that they aren't very visible, but I really dislike interacting with strangers who may be very defensive, so I just go wide and pass safely.


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

I wouldn't be offended by someone politely making suggestions. In this case, I think she was right and I have the same complaint about many cyclists. I can't tell you how many cyclists I see riding in the dark or dim light wearing black, gray or dark blue jerseys. Even with their obligatory red blinkies, they are not very visible. It is a common sense issue -- bright colors are more visible -- but apparently many people just do not have common sense.

I always wear yellow or neon green jackets, jerseys or vests when riding in the dark or dim light. It does make a difference. I come upon joggers running in the streets with black clothes all the time, and often don't see them until they are very close. In contrast, when I see a jogger wearing neon yellow/green, I can spot them at least a half-mile away.

Unfortunately, many cyclists are more concerned about looking trendy than their own safety. Black clothes may look cool but you are just increasing your chances of getting hit by a car if you choose to wear them.


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## dave2pvd (Oct 15, 2007)

Something else to keep in mind: an LED blinkie can be drowned out if there are car taillights/brakelights in the field of vision. They just don't have the watts to compete. It makes sense to make use of other light sources (streetlights, car headlights) by wearing something large and reflective.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

*BiPolar BiCyclist?*



Killroy said:


> I just bought this Traffic Master jersey. I no longer do mediocrity.
> Universal Vehicle Code on sleeve


Do you always swing from one extreme to the other that fast? Half a day ago you're miffed at a polite suggestion to wear a different color, and tomorrow you're the Screaming Yellow Zonker. That's a great jersey ;-)

A bit of unsolicited legal advice here: before you find yourself tempted to quote your sleeve to an offending motorist (or witnessing cop), check to see which of those provisions of the Universal Vehicle Code have actually been adopted by your state. "Universal" codes aren't really universal -- they' re suggestions that individual states can adopt, or reject, or modify piecemeal.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

Killroy said:


> I was commuting to work this thick foggy morning close to dawn --so it was still somewhat dark, especially in the fog. At a red light a lady motorist rolls up to me in the lane next to me with the window rolled down and said, “Can I make a suggestion for a cyclist?”
> “Yeah,” I said.
> “You really should have one of those bright yellow jackets because its really hard to see you with that dinky light in this fog.”
> Half way though her “suggestion” the light turns green and we are both parked at a green light in the fog, which is not a good place to be, so I say “OK” and ride off.
> ...


You can pretty much be assured that anyone who is polite enough to make that kind of suggestion is telling you that she/he is concerned about your safety and that she/he is relating their inability to see you very well.


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## gutfiddle (Apr 27, 2006)

commute naked.


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## M.J. (Jan 28, 2004)

1. you knew what you were looking for when you scoped your bike out from a distance
2. your eyesight is probably pretty good
3. bright colours are obviously more visible to drivers who may not live up to the high standards we would expect of them


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## mustang1 (Feb 7, 2008)

Suggest, next time, driver upgrades her car to BMW and opts for Night Vision module.


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

If it was foggy, then her light was diminished hence the reflection off you was less and dimished more as it travelled back to her. 

My hunch is not at all as bright as your pics.

As others have said, she was polite and just giving her thoughts. At least she seemed to care.


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## fast ferd (Jan 30, 2009)

I interpreted Killroy's OP that he was miffed about what the motorist said, not at the motorist. Her comment troubled him and he wanted to find out if held any truth.

Sometime ago during my commute, a lady passenger rolled down her window and told me they could not see me and that I should be more careful. (We were heading into the morning sun on a farily wide, lightly-traveled residential street.) I thanked her and asked her to slow down a bit, because that means she would also have a hard time seeing other cars or pedestrians. The driver then proceeded to zoom down the road at about 45 in a 35 zone.

My yellow or white windbreakers make me more visible, in addition to the usual lights and reflective bands. But our fate is really in the hands of the motorist, unfortunately. Until they come out with a hologram that disguises us as a Mack Truck, we can only do so much.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

_"She's right, and she made her suggestion politely. You can take her advice or not, as you see fit, but there's no reason for you to be miffed, IMHO. Your lights and reflectors are great, and very important, and you're to be commended for using them. But a bright yellow jacket would make you even more visible, especially in foggy semi-dark conditions, one of the most hazardous situations for visibility. White or very light clothing is good in the dark, but doesn't stand out well in the fog."_

JCavalia is exactly right. If it had been me I would have thanked her sincerely, then closely considered her suggestion. She was only trying to help, and she told you exactly what she saw/didn't see. That's damned hard to argue with. If she saw you the way she described you can be *very sure* that other motorists did too.

Just a personal aside...I rode in some pretty severe weather when commuting, but I have never, and will never ride when it's foggy.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

My commute in the PNW involves climbing up to and then riding a ridge each morning. Because of the height of the ridge, it is typically foggy about 9 months out of the year. My commuter has an HID headlight, NR universal taillight (16 LEDs), a PB superflash, and a blackburn mars. I also wear a yellow jacket or vest. I see other cyclists on the road occassionally (I leave really early) and I notice that their lights only create a red glow in the fog and don't project that far. What I see with my HID light is the reflective stuff on their bikes. The bright yellow jacket or vest is mostly for the last 30 minutes of my commute when the sun is up. That part of my commute is through towns and my lights don't make that much of a difference. I do have one section where the sun creates a blind spot climbing over a ridge, but I keep an eye on traffic and find a gap or make eye contact with a driver and then sprint over the top and begin a 30-40mph descent in traffic.


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

JCavilia said:


> She's right, and she made her suggestion politely. You can take her advice or not, as you see fit, but there's no reason for you to be miffed, IMHO.


+1 to that! One of the nice things about traveling by bicycle is that you CAN interact with other people on the road, as opposed to being inaccessibly cooped up in a massive steel box. If someone politely tells you about a concern for your safety, take that as a blessing. It's up to you to decide whether to follow the advice or not, but we should all be grateful that people are keeping our safety in mind.

Yes, motorists should be more on the lookout for cyclists, but many of them are not. That's just a fact of life. We can get uselessy angry about that, or we can deal with the issue as best we can and be grateful for any help.

One more thing... I wonder what I would do if I saw a cyclist riding dangerously (and I am NOT saying that the OP was riding dangerously, IMHO). I suppose that if the cyclist were doing something REALLY dangerous, I might say something to him/her, whether I was on my bike or in my car, more likely if I were on my bike.

Just my two cents.

Cheers,

FB


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## Tweezak (Dec 6, 2008)

I think I've finally got the right combination of lights.

Handlebars: Baja Designs Strykr
Helmet front: Ayup
Helmet rear: Planet bike superflash
Seat post: Dinotte 200L converted to red with a new LED emitter
Rear rack: Planet Bike Blaze 1Watt with amber lens

The only comments I get are that my lights are ridiculously bright.

I just did the conversion on the Dinotte and on the next ride I stopped at a light and a guy in the left turn lane rolled down his window and shouted "That light is awesome!"

A coworker was at an intersection as I approached with my Strykr. The next day he said it was like looking into the sun.

I would recommend you get a bright helmet light. The Dinotte 200L is excellent as is the Ayup. Having a light I can shine directly at people has saved me many times. I can't even guess how many drivers have rolled up to intersections and then stabbed the brakes as I cauterized their retinas. Similarly people backing out of driveways take note when the inside of their car is flooded with light. Most probably think they are about to get run over by a garbage truck. Seriously...the helmet light has literally been a life saver.


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*contrast*

I use a Dinotte 400R tail light, and people are constantly pulling up and saying things like "Wow, that's the brightest light I've ever seen. I could see you for a mile away. I thought you were a cop!"





Killroy said:


> I was commuting to work this thick foggy morning close to dawn --so it was still somewhat dark, especially in the fog. At a red light a lady motorist rolls up to me in the lane next to me with the window rolled down and said, “Can I make a suggestion for a cyclist?”
> “Yeah,” I said.
> “You really should have one of those bright yellow jackets because its really hard to see you with that dinky light in this fog.”
> Half way though her “suggestion” the light turns green and we are both parked at a green light in the fog, which is not a good place to be, so I say “OK” and ride off.
> ...


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*Wow!*

Wow, and I thought I was a safety geeked out as it gets, with lights all over and solid color neon yellow green. I'm impressed. Got to have that.





Killroy said:


> I just bought this Traffic Master jersey. I no longer do mediocrity.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

Tweezak said:


> I can't even guess how many drivers have rolled up to intersections and then stabbed the brakes as I cauterized their retinas.


+1 on that. There's no substitute for catching a driver's attention by shining a blinding light straight into his/her eyes.

Cheers,

FB


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## majura (Apr 21, 2007)

Even here in Berlin where people expect people on bikes, I've been cut-off, grazed and almost-doored almost as much as when I was living in Australia (which generally isn't cycle friendly).

I have a fluro yellow commuting jacket (and a bright red normal cycling jacket) plus a fluro yellow wind vest. I know they look geeky, my partner thinks I look geeky- but she'd rather have me look like a beacon of fluro-crazy than be hit by a car. I notice the difference when wearing the fluro stuff- being given more space, being cut off far less etc.

And normally the conditions that require me to wear a jacket or vest also pertain to a low light situation (rain, cold/winter, fall, spring). 

PS: Try a Fibre Flare.


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## hepcatbent (Aug 19, 2009)

The guy (or woman) who comes up with a hologram projector the size of that blinky who can do a 360* full-size hologram of a full-on battle tank, or some other awesome road something-or-other will make a fortune! What a_ great_ way to be seen on the roads! 

I have a yellow jacket and a variety of lights (3 taillights, rack, seat post, and helmet mount) and I'm still sure I'm not visible enough.


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