# Beginner being led astray?



## thephizz (Jun 8, 2010)

so, I was in my preferred lbs tonight (which as a side note I am rapidly losing confidence and faith in) and was mentioning how I was planning on purchasing a road bike and trying to get into the pavement side of things. I have been a mountain biker for some time now and just last year bought a rather expensive mountain bike from this same store. 

While in there tonight I mentioned that I was interested in buying a road bike, and said that I was interested in a felt F95. The response I got was certainly now that I expected. It became clear that he was not the biggest fan of the brand, but what made me question him further was that he said for me, being a young fit guy, I would be seriously selling myself short settling for a bike that was not in the 1000-1300 range, and that I should be aiming for almost all 105 parts in the drive train.

Now I know that 105 is not bad, and in fact good. And I do agree with him for the most part that were I to get all 105 parts that is pretty much all I would ever need, but where I disagree is that I would be wasting my money on the F95 or bike of similar price/specs.

Is this an assumption that I have deep pockets because of my pricey mountain bike purchase? I can see merit in the statement that if I am going to spend almost 800 bucks, why not save a bit more and get the better bike for only 200 or so more dollars but where does it end?

This is getting quite long winded, so I will stop myself. Some valid points? Or should i be looking for a new lbs?

thanks a lot guys


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## shanabit (Jul 16, 2007)

105 is the lowest acceptable point on the shimano stuff IMO, Tiagra and lower end are garbage, do not shift well etc. I know I was that guy who bought the lower priced bike and ended up upgrading everything to Ultegra here. I should have just bought the bike with the parts I needed and been done with it. 

Hes right BTW. If you were Joe Schmo he wouldnt have probably said anything to you and just sold you what you wanted. 

You could always get the bike you want and upgrade the parts later. It does cost you more dough that way . 

the FRAME is what your paying for IMO. You can always change anything else.


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## fsdork (Mar 29, 2009)

I have a road bike with 105, and a cyclocross bike with Tiagra. I personally feel that the 105 shifts better, but the Tiagra is hardly "garbage".

A quick google search on the F95 indicates that the 09 model came with 2200 (Sora) shifters. One thing to be aware of with the Sora line is that the design does not permit downshifting in the drops, as the downshift lever is operated with the thumb while on the hoods. I personally would have an issue with that, but YMMV.


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

What I wanna know is where you're finding this 105-equipped bike for $1000. Around here, 105 starts showing up at $1500 or so. The few bikes that are $1000 have mostly Tiagra shifters with Sora components...And, I mean "few" quite literally. I can count on one hand the number of sub-$1000 road bikes I saw after visiting 3 bike shops.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Your money, your call. Don't give a **** about hurting the LBS's feelings. Get an all-105 at your price point if it fits and rides well. If you don't see it there, find it elsewhere.


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## R3 Sloth (Mar 25, 2010)

Agree with the statements above. I went the same route in the beginning, buying low to save money, only to upgrade later and be left with a box of nearly worthless junk.


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## Tommy Walker (Aug 14, 2009)

This wasn't the Spokes in Old Town Alexandria, VA? I mentioned Felt to that guy and he freaked out. Felt is a great bike and a great value.

What I suggest is test ride more, test the 105, Tiagra, Sora and then Ultegra, Dura Ace, SRAM and even Campy and see what you like. Test ride aluminum frames, carbon frames, mixed and so forth. Test ride a Pinarelo Dogma and Trek Madone 6.5; you don't have to buy them, just get a feel of what an expensive bike is like and compare it to the Felt 95.

Get a good fitting while test riding; figure out what type of riding you want to do and then start to narrow down what you like and then start thinking about what you can afford.

I spent twice as much as what I thought going into my decision and glad I did. I absolutely love my bike. I wanted something for the long hauls, so I ended up with a more relaxed fit bike and wow, it is everything that was promised. I did a two day ride earlier in the month, it was 80 each day; this guy I went with, who was a triathlete, was in pain all night, cramps, etc. He didn't ride the next day; he couldn't figure out why I had absolutely no pain...I mean no pain.

I get passed by the big boys a lot, you may want to be a faster rider; I can do pretty well, but the setup of my bike is really for the comfortable long haul.

The guy at your LBS could have been just trying to sell you a higher priced bike or he could have based his statement on your expensive mountain bike. Figure out if you are going to just ride around the block, want to ride everyday, or a long haul on the weekends.

Good luck and have fun doing it.


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## Kai Winters (Aug 23, 2009)

Sora and Tiagra is not "bad", just not as nice as 105 and up. It really depends on your budget and what you want out of the bike. If you're going to ride it maybe a day or so per week you will do just fine with the entry level components. If you're going to ride more with more miles and perhaps more performance oriented I'd suggest 105 and up just for the durability and smoothness over time and wear/tear.

All parts wear out over time and you should take that into consideration as well. Perhaps for a bit more money you can get a better component system that will last longer and work more smoothly longer than the entry level stuff. That would be money well spent...again depending on what you want out of the bike.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

If I knew you had a higher-end mountain bike, I would also try to talk you out of the entry-level road bike. It would be to my benefit. You'd end up disliking the entry-level bike, upgrading everything (from PBK or elsewhere), and be annoyed at me for selling you a cheap bike, whether it was my fault or not.

Tiagra isn't bad. Sora isn't really bad either, but there's a HUGE jump from Sora to 105. That's where it end, btw. After that, the performance jumps get much smaller, while the $ jumps get bigger.

I'm not a fan of Felt either. I wouldn't say that to a customer though. If anything, I might explain why I thought Brand B might be a better fit for the customer.


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## thephizz (Jun 8, 2010)

Thanks so much for all the responses guys, you have honestly helped me out a ton and definitely put quite a bit of faith back in me towards my lbs. I really appreciate it and am glad I posted this, looks like I got some money to save!


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## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

Tommy Walker said:


> What I suggest is test ride more, test the 105, Tiagra, Sora and then Ultegra, Dura Ace, SRAM and even Campy and see what you like. Test ride aluminum frames, carbon frames, mixed and so forth. Test ride a Pinarelo Dogma and Trek Madone 6.5; you don't have to buy them, just get a feel of what an expensive bike is like and compare it to the Felt 95.



Why?

And assuming there is a store with a fleet of Dogma's waiting to be tested by every tire kicker walking through the door it still doesn't make sense. If I'm buying a Kia I don't test drive a Ferrari to see what I'm missing.


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## c_kyle (May 28, 2010)

fsdork said:


> I have a road bike with 105, and a cyclocross bike with Tiagra. I personally feel that the 105 shifts better, but the Tiagra is hardly "garbage".
> 
> A quick google search on the F95 indicates that the 09 model came with 2200 (Sora) shifters. One thing to be aware of with the Sora line is that the design does not permit downshifting in the drops, as the downshift lever is operated with the thumb while on the hoods. I personally would have an issue with that, but YMMV.


Very good point. My Jamis currently has Sora shifters. Not only can you not downshift in the drops, you can overshift the front shifter. It's double/triple compatible, and on a double you can erroneously overshift, and it's a pita to shift back. This is, of course, user error; but for a new roadie, it's not fun to deal with.

I also agree with "you're buying the frame/fork" reasoning. At least, that's how I buy bikes. I like replacing parts.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

c_kyle said:


> Very good point. My Jamis currently has Sora shifters. Not only can you not downshift in the drops, you can overshift the front shifter. *It's double/triple compatible, and on a double you can erroneously overshift, and it's a pita to shift back. This is, of course, user error; but for a new roadie, it's not fun to deal with.*
> 
> I also agree with "you're buying the frame/fork" reasoning. At least, that's how I buy bikes. I like replacing parts.


This isn't user error, it's a FD set up error. When set up correctly, the FD can't overshift. I suggest you make an appointment with your LBS and explain the situation to them. If this condition isn't remedied, you could end up breaking the front shifter trying to unjam it.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

thephizz said:


> Thanks so much for all the responses guys, you have honestly helped me out a ton and definitely put quite a bit of faith back in me towards my lbs. I really appreciate it and am glad I posted this, looks like I got some money to save!


I'm late to join in but FWIW I think it's more important to find a first road bike that suites your intended purposes and fits well than dwell on componentry. 

I agree with the posters that are saying that (paraphrasing) both Sora and Tiagra are well suited to their market segment - meaning that more casual/ new riders will do fine with either. As far as performance/ durability are concerned, IME the drivetrain that's well maintained/ tuned performs well and lasts, so moving one up or down one in a model line matters little in that regard. 

Assuming you've taken some time to test ride some other brands/ models, I think if the Felt fits you well and you like the ride/ handling, you should stick with your plan. The frameset is the heart of the bike, and with a modicum of care the components will last years, so enjoy the bike and replace/ upgrade as things wear or you see fit. As you build experience/ fitness let the bike grow with you.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

shanabit said:


> 105 is the lowest acceptable point on the shimano stuff IMO, Tiagra and lower end are garbage, do not shift well etc. ....


Nonsense. We have a Sora bike in our family and it shifts perfectly and has done so for quite a while. I rented a road bike with Sora for a week last fall, and although it weighed 4 pounds more and had three levels lower components than my own bike, I was perfectly happy with it and my experience was in no way lessened.

These are perfectly functinal system that many, if not most, cyclists would be happy with.

I'm not saying what level of stuff the OP should buy, but your statement is just silly.

My guess is that either:

(a) the bike shop guy is just an arrogant, air-headed, ignorant dweeb (like many) and/or
(b) he knows that you like more high end gear and he is approaching you as such.

I vote for a.


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## milkbaby (Aug 14, 2009)

To some people the $200 difference could be a dealbreaker. To me, the difference in money to get 105 versus Tiagra or Sora was within my budget, so I don't regret it, though I really only test rode the frame I got outfitted in Sora. I just figured if I could afford it, and it was only a little more, why not? Of course, at a certain price level, it probably gets to a point where you think enough is enough, but each person has their own limit.

I met a guy visiting a local ride once who raced his Trek 1.5 for a season and was enjoying it thoroughly. And I believe that is a Sora/Tiagra level bike. You will probably be more limited to how comfortable you feel on the bike rather than the particular components.

I ride both a 2009 105-equipped bike and a 1980's steel behemoth with el-cheapo no-name Taiwanese components (almost all still original stock, 25+ years old). I still enjoy riding both, and I can keep up just fine on the group rides with either bike, even though there's ostensibly a huge difference in the quality of the 2 bikes.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Steep part of the curve*



thephizz said:


> I have been a mountain biker for some time now and just last year bought a rather expensive mountain bike from this same store.
> 
> While in there tonight I mentioned that I was interested in buying a road bike, and said that I was interested in a felt F95. The response I got was certainly now that I expected. It became clear that he was not the biggest fan of the brand, but what made me question him further was that he said for me, being a young fit guy, I would be seriously selling myself short settling for a bike that was not in the 1000-1300 range, and that I should be aiming for almost all 105 parts in the drive train.


Pliing on here: Given that you have a relatively high end MTB, I think the shop gave good advice. In that price range, you are on the steep part of the curve where the extra bux buys a lot of value.


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## c_kyle (May 28, 2010)

PJ352 said:


> This isn't user error, it's a FD set up error. When set up correctly, the FD can't overshift. I suggest you make an appointment with your LBS and explain the situation to them. If this condition isn't remedied, you could end up breaking the front shifter trying to unjam it.


Good to know. I will talk to the lbs about it. The more I ride the Sora/Tiagra mix, the more comfortable I become with it. I just figured it was me causing the issue. Even though Sora is low-level Shimano, I would say it works fine, once I get the above issue corrected. 

I'd like to ride a bike with Dura-Ace or Red drivetrain to see how awesome and smooth shifting would be over Sora.


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

Did I totally misinterpret the part where the guy was getting a 105-equipped bike for a grand? Around here, a grand will get you a Sora level bike, and most of the shops don't carry that kind of "low-end" stuff. They'll keep one or two bikes around Tiagra/Sora level, but the bulk of most of the bikes are 105/Ultegra, and retail about $2k on up.


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## Tommy Walker (Aug 14, 2009)

ewitz said:


> Why?
> 
> And assuming there is a store with a fleet of Dogma's waiting to be tested by every tire kicker walking through the door it still doesn't make sense. If I'm buying a Kia I don't test drive a Ferrari to see what I'm missing.


Just to get an idea what different bikes are like; you may test ride the Ferrari and decide you don't want a Kia. You get to experience what Di2 is like. You don't have to buy it, just ride it.


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## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

Tommy Walker said:


> Just to get an idea what different bikes are like; you may test ride the Ferrari and decide you don't want a Kia. You get to experience what Di2 is like. You don't have to buy it, just ride it.


In my experience the stores that sell enough bikes of that quality and stock enough to allow test rides of Di2 and Dogmas have little to offer the OP. So you are suggesting he waste their time and resources.


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## shanabit (Jul 16, 2007)

Camilo said:


> Nonsense.
> These are perfectly functinal system that many, if not most, cyclists would be happy with.
> 
> I'm not saying what level of stuff the OP should buy, but your statement is just silly.


Your OPINION, mine is a couple years EXPERIENCE with Tiagra garbage. 
No thanks. Give my your address and Ill send the perfectly fine crap to you


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## roscoe (Mar 9, 2010)

old_fuji said:


> Did I totally misinterpret the part where the guy was getting a 105-equipped bike for a grand? Around here, a grand will get you a Sora level bike, and most of the shops don't carry that kind of "low-end" stuff. They'll keep one or two bikes around Tiagra/Sora level, but the bulk of most of the bikes are 105/Ultegra, and retail about $2k on up.


depends on your local market conditions

we have a local shop selling the allez elite for $1150 and that's a 105 bike, not on sale, just regular advertised price 

some shops will mark things at MSRP and deal from there, others mark things lower and avoid the haggling


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## SwooshDaddy (May 8, 2009)

I was a beginner Roadie last year, and my LBS said the same exact thing. If I planned to ride alot, (which I was) go with a minimum of 105 stuff. I listened, came and read a bunch of stuff here, and bought it the next day. 

And mine was a Cannondale Synapse Alloy for just a tad over $1000, so yes it's possible.


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## Ibashii (Oct 23, 2002)

shanabit said:


> 105 is the lowest acceptable point on the shimano stuff IMO, Tiagra and lower end are garbage, do not shift well etc. I know I was that guy who bought the lower priced bike and ended up upgrading everything to Ultegra here. I should have just bought the bike with the parts I needed and been done with it.
> [...]


Tiagra's not garbage...it works in the exact same manner as higher-end Shimano stuff: the material it is made from is just heavier and thus cheaper. Or cheaper and thus heavier, if you prefer. Sora RD shifters, as already mentioned, do NOT work the same so that is a different story.

A few years ago I replaced the shifters on an Ultegra 9-sp with Tiagra, just 'cuz it wasn't my main ride anymore and I didn't feel like sinking big cash into my bad weather ride. Being a bad weather bike, it takes tons of abuse, and after 1000s of kms it still shifts fine. Not quite as smooth as Ultegra but it's not supposed to be...and the job gets done.

If you look for five minutes with the search function you will find at least a few people who say _every_ component line is garbage: these are not useful comments. I would much rather know exactly what didn't work with a particular component/gruppo. Did you have problems with the cable catching or snapping? Was it hard to get the tension right? Did the shifters respond unpredictably? Was something hard to install? Tell us _why_ you think it's garbage and then you might be doing some good here.


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## Tommy Walker (Aug 14, 2009)

ewitz said:


> In my experience the stores that sell enough bikes of that quality and stock enough to allow test rides of Di2 and Dogmas have little to offer the OP. So you are suggesting he waste their time and resources.


You are certainly welcome to see it as a waste of time, I don't. My suggestion was to *test ride as much as you can*. I'm looking for a new bike for my 13 year old son; this past weekend Trek was having a demo at a local park, you could ride whatever you wanted, my son rode a Madone 6.5; the guy knew we were not going to buy that for a 13 year old, but encouraged him to ride it anyway, telling him it was _"the same bike Lance Armstrong ride's." _ They also had Madone's with Di2 that everyone was trying.

Also not sure why you are selling the OP short? He has been riding a high end mountain bike, he can probably tell the difference between Sora and Dura Ace, 25 pounds and 16 pounds; I'm certain he can gain from the experience.

My original line was intended to be a colloquialism to encourage test riding as much as you can, not a debate on the succesful marketing techniques of the bicycling industry. I'm just wondering if your helmet was manufactured by Durex?


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## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

As long as you are calling me a ********, I will point out that Trek Demo Days at the park is run by Trek with a demo fleet not the LBS with their floor stock.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

ewitz said:


> As long as you are calling me a ********, I will point out that Trek Demo Days at the park is run by Trek with a demo fleet not the LBS with their floor stock.


and only applies to Trek.

I thought he wanted a GOOD bike...


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## thephizz (Jun 8, 2010)

The lbs and I hadn't talked specifics as to what bike would get me all 105 parts for a grand but was told in essence that spending under a grand to 1200, for me, would be more or less a waste of my money and I should wait till I am able to spend more. And as a second part to his recommendation, I was told I should aim to get all 105 or as much 105 as possible.


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## Ibashii (Oct 23, 2002)

thephizz said:


> The lbs and I hadn't talked specifics as to what bike would get me all 105 parts for a grand but was told in essence that spending under a grand to 1200, for me, would be more or less a waste of my money and I should wait till I am able to spend more. And as a second part to his recommendation, I was told I should aim to get all 105 or *as much 105 as possible.*


It's worth pointing out too that getting a little less 105 in places that matter less can make your bike cheaper without changing much...for example, find me a rider who can tell a Tiagra FD from a 105 FD without looking at the little logo (providing they are both set up properly) and you've found me a liar.


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## peterk (Jun 28, 2008)

I have Tiagra shifters and sora derailluers on my bike. After 3,000 miles it still works great. Bike is two and half years young. Keep clean and tuned and it will work fine. If you can afford the upgrade, then go for it.


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## jdfan (Jul 1, 2010)

ThePhizz-

I'm a beginner just like you from what it sounds like. I rode bikes with Sora, Tiagra, 105, and Ultegra. I ended up with the lower end stuff, because I couldn't tell the difference. Since I'm riding and paying for it, it's what I choose. Sora isn't what the racers use, but I'm not going to be racing and to save a few grams of weight It wasn't worth the additional cost to me. Ride em all then choose, if you can't tell a difference keep the wad of cash for yourself.


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## 1nf0s3c (Feb 21, 2010)

Save yourself the BS and just get a bike with SRAM :thumbsup:


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

1nf0s3c said:


> Save yourself the BS and just get a bike with SRAM :thumbsup:


I approve of this.


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## mfarra1 (Jul 4, 2010)

shanabit said:


> Your OPINION, mine is a couple years EXPERIENCE with Tiagra garbage.
> No thanks. Give my your address and Ill send the perfectly fine crap to you


id be happy to take your tiagra junk... id even pay for shipping..


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## thephizz (Jun 8, 2010)

Well, when it comes to sram, what is the differences? I assume that they have price/component levels similar to that of shimano but it seems like all the bike that I look at online are outfitted with shimano, simply market domination and good marketing by shimano? And also, based on money concerns, I will be having to put off getting my road bike a little longer than expected. A real bummer cause watching the tour makes me wanna ride so badly


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## milkbaby (Aug 14, 2009)

thephizz said:


> Well, when it comes to sram, what is the differences? I assume that they have price/component levels similar to that of shimano but it seems like all the bike that I look at online are outfitted with shimano, simply market domination and good marketing by shimano? And also, based on money concerns, I will be having to put off getting my road bike a little longer than expected. A real bummer cause watching the tour makes me wanna ride so badly


The big difference between SRAM and Shimano is the method of shifting. Google up double tap shifting for SRAM. SRAM one lever for both upshifts and downshifts pushed either a little bit or further, but Shimano uses 2 separate levers for the upshifts and downshifts though one of those is also the brake lever (but pushed perpendicular to the way it's used for braking).

Buying retail, you might pay about the same if not more for SRAM over Shimano, but Shimano discounts much heavier to the bike manufacturers so they are pretty dominant in the complete road bike market especially in terms of pricing.

For the average joe, I think worrying too much about the component group level is a bit of a red herring. As mentioned, I have a 26 year old low tier road bike (almost all original crap components), but that didn't stop me and a pal from schlepping along at 23-26 mph the last few miles of a 50 mile ride in 90+ degree weather. If you REALLY want to ride within your budget, you can buy the lower spec'd bike and just upgrade components when they eventually wear out, which might be never especially if you get the fever for a completely new road bike down the line!


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## thephizz (Jun 8, 2010)

Thanks! never really did understand how those shifters really worked. I'm as green as they come in the matters of road cycling. The road bike I have is an old Schwinn Caliente that I use to commute and has the lever shifters haha. 

I am not stressing about SRAM vs Shimano at all, when I can afford to spend the money I will buy a complete bike and love every second of it. I was just asking simply to ask. As long as I am going to be waiting, I may as well get as much info about all that I can so I can make an even better choice when the time comes. These forums are goldmines of info for the most part. I have learned so much from just this one.


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## estone2 (Sep 25, 2005)

Tommy Walker said:


> Just to get an idea what different bikes are like; you may test ride the Ferrari and decide you don't want a Kia. You get to experience what Di2 is like. You don't have to buy it, just ride it.


That's how you blow a budget. If I ride a more expensive bike, I want it, and suddenly my budget gets blown to hell and back.


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## estone2 (Sep 25, 2005)

Ibashii said:


> It's worth pointing out too that getting a little less 105 in places that matter less can make your bike cheaper without changing much...for example, find me a rider who can tell a Tiagra FD from a 105 FD without looking at the little logo (providing they are both set up properly) and you've found me a liar.


I'm not sure I agree with that. Maybe my Tiagra derailleur just sucked, but I dropped chains like mad under load with the Tiagra derailleur on my first bike. 105 wasn't butterysmooth and perfect by any means, but it didn't drop nearly so often as the Tiagra.


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## josephr (Jun 17, 2010)

thephizz said:


> Thanks! never really did understand how those shifters really worked. I'm as green as they come in the matters of road cycling. The road bike I have is an old Schwinn Caliente that I use to commute and has the lever shifters haha.
> 
> I am not stressing about SRAM vs Shimano at all, when I can afford to spend the money I will buy a complete bike and love every second of it. I was just asking simply to ask. As long as I am going to be waiting, I may as well get as much info about all that I can so I can make an even better choice when the time comes. These forums are goldmines of info for the most part. I have learned so much from just this one.



Hey Phizz -- As a mountain biker who also rides road, I have to say you're getting a lot of great advice from this forum about learning how to work with your LBS towards the purchase. In this case, I think the sales guy is actually trying to put you into something he knows you'll be happy with. In this road bike world, 105 sorta equivalent to Deore/SLX. I agree with the other poster that the Sora shifters are going to be a pain in the neck for a new roadie, but those can be easily and cheaply changed out, but other than that Sora/Tiagra will probably work well for your purposes. 

I'm not sure what sort of MTB you have, but if you ride full-suspension, you might want to look at a steel frame or one that has carbon fiber seat stays as I'd think you might find an all aluminum bike a little harsh. 

Also, if you're looking to ride road to enhance your mountain biking, then I'd think that weight of the bike not might as be as much of a concern as a slightly heavier bike will help build muscles. You might even want to look a cross style bike and then mount some slicks as the rolling weight from the heavier wheels would help build you up too. There are some nice CX bikes out there for sub1k too. 

When the Trek Demo days came around, I test rode four or five of their full suspension bikes to get a feel of what I liked and didn't like --- even though I ended up buying a Cannondale. I also rode a few of my buddies' FS bikes too. If you're in a local IMBA chapter, I'm sure there are some guys out there who ride road as well....maybe some might even have a road bike you can ride a couple of times to help you figure out what you like and don't like. 

Good luck!


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## WaynefromOrlando (Mar 3, 2010)

c_kyle said:


> Very good point. My Jamis currently has Sora shifters. Not only can you not downshift in the drops, you can overshift the front shifter. It's double/triple compatible, and on a double you can erroneously overshift, and it's a pita to shift back. This is, of course, user error; but for a new roadie, it's not fun to deal with.
> 
> I also agree with "you're buying the frame/fork" reasoning. At least, that's how I buy bikes. I like replacing parts.


My Ultegra FD is a double/triple compatible system and I have to press the lever twice to get a shift in either direction, but it will not overshift as it is setup. More than likely the Sora system can be set up the same way, and was not properly set up.


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## Jett (Mar 21, 2004)

milkbaby said:


> The big difference between SRAM and Shimano is the method of shifting. Google up double tap shifting for SRAM. SRAM one lever for both upshifts and downshifts pushed either a little bit or further, but Shimano uses 2 separate levers for the upshifts and downshifts though one of those is also the brake lever (but pushed perpendicular to the way it's used for braking).


Beside method of shifting, they have different hood shapes. I made leap last year and found not only do I like double tap better; I also found that the SRAM hoods were way more comfortable for me then Shimano.


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## Hooben (Aug 22, 2004)

Aww man, did he just ask about sram? The can of worms has been opened. Look, my buddy owns a bike shop and he thinks I should ride Campagnolo Record on a Willier Triestina frame. He calls my 105 junk and my big name brand frame a roach. So what. Just ride and get what you want.
Sram is so different, but I love it. But gosh, you had to ask.....you walk into an LBS asking questions and what do you expect?
Pretty soon they will tell you sram red on a Pinarello Dogma...you beginners!


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## dahut (May 13, 2010)

thephizz said:


> so, I was in my preferred lbs tonight (which as a side note I am rapidly losing confidence and faith in) and was mentioning how I was planning on purchasing a road bike and trying to get into the pavement side of things. I have been a mountain biker for some time now and just last year bought a rather expensive mountain bike from this same store.
> 
> While in there tonight I mentioned that I was interested in buying a road bike, and said that I was interested in a felt F95. The response I got was certainly now that I expected. It became clear that he was not the biggest fan of the brand, but what made me question him further was that he said for me, being a young fit guy, I would be seriously selling myself short settling for a bike that was not in the 1000-1300 range, and that I should be aiming for almost all 105 parts in the drive train.
> 
> ...


I get the general notion from reading here that the more money you spend, the better. 

Naturally that is not cast in stone, but I'd call it the general concensus among those in the know. In essence, dont buy low, since the costlier stuff will be a better value in the long run. "Lower end" Shimano stuff functions, of course, but the 105 and above will keep you happier longer. It's worth noting that you'd get the same spiel were you buying a washing machine or chainsaw, too.

And I tend to agree with that concept.

However, the guy's job is to sell bikes, by giving you options for purchase. His opinions about what you should be riding are best given at your request. Above all, he should have put you on the Felt - immediately. Further, he should have recommended one or two other bikes in the same class that might suit you, and let you spin those, too. 

When I was in sales, guys like you were known as "flops". You know what you want and you'd half sold yourself already. All that remained was to afford you the opportunity to "flop' your money on the counter. Apparently, this guy never heard of this concept. Im betting his ego was in the way.

Personally, I reckon the guy didn't do anyone right. The shop owner now has a suspicious customer at best, the salesman lost his commission and any referrals you might have sent him and you aren't any closer than before. It's a lose-lose situation.


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## thephizz (Jun 8, 2010)

dahut said:


> Above all, he should have put you on the Felt - immediately. Further, he should have recommended one or two other bikes in the same class that might suit you, and let you spin those, too.
> ..._Im betting his ego was in the way_.
> 
> Personally, I reckon the guy didn't do anyone right. The shop owner now has a suspicious customer at best, the salesman lost his commission and any referrals you might have sent him and you aren't any closer than before. It's a lose-lose situation.



I suppose I didn't explain the story as perfectly as I could have. The main bike that they deal out of this particular shop is trek, gary fisher, and kona. While they have a few other brands float in from time to time, those are their main ones. I noticed they had a few felt road bikes there, though not the exact one I was interested in. So I asked him what he had thought/knew about the particular model. And it was at that point that i was told all the things I brought to the forum to run by greater minds.

As for the ego statement, I would have to say that you are on target with that. With this particular salesman, I take most of what is said with a grain of salt. Though after the things he said turned out to be relatively true based on what I have learned here, I do not blindly accept any statement he gives me.

And when it comes to the lose lose, they have made a gold mine off me. I have bought two mountain bikes off them, one of them being the one I got last year, an EX8. In addition to that, my girlfriend, mom and dad have now all purchased bikes from them. Based on all that I would really naively hope that they wouldn't steer me wrong after all that but I guess you can never be certain.


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## dahut (May 13, 2010)

thephizz said:


> I suppose I didn't explain the story as perfectly as I could have. The main bike that they deal out of this particular shop is trek, gary fisher, and kona. While they have a few other brands float in from time to time, those are their main ones. I noticed they had a few felt road bikes there, though not the exact one I was interested in. So I asked him what he had thought/knew about the particular model. And it was at that point that i was told all the things I brought to the forum to run by greater minds.
> 
> As for the ego statement, I would have to say that you are on target with that. With this particular salesman, I take most of what is said with a grain of salt. Though after the things he said turned out to be relatively true based on what I have learned here, I do not blindly accept any statement he gives me.
> 
> And when it comes to the lose lose, they have made a gold mine off me. I have bought two mountain bikes off them, one of them being the one I got last year, an EX8. In addition to that, my girlfriend, mom and dad have now all purchased bikes from them. Based on all that I would really naively hope that they wouldn't steer me wrong after all that but I guess you can never be certain.


Okay good response. With the assortment of bikes they have the option exists that they would have one similar - and comparisons to the Felt were in order. Benefits, not features Ill add. It would have been a good thing had he also said, "We handle these lines primarily. While I will make every effort to get you a Felt to your liking, would you object to hearing how the ones we have here compare?"
As you have spent a lot of money there in the past, and Im guessing he knows that, this seems all the more prudent
I dont want to second guess the guy or the situation too much, but you may wish to approach him yourself with these observations. He may come around depending on how you present yourself.


Just some thoughts. Thanks for listening.


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## SimianSpeedster (Mar 13, 2008)

*sora and tiagra are both just fine*



shanabit said:


> Your OPINION, mine is a couple years EXPERIENCE with Tiagra garbage.
> No thanks. Give my your address and Ill send the perfectly fine crap to you


I have a touring bike with all tiagra that makes multiple trips to the grocery store every week and comes back loaded with about 40lbs of stuff, and has done so reliably for 6 months now. before that I made those same trips on a cheapie Schwinn flatbar with sub sora parts (called 2200 now) for over a year. My main roadbike is a schwinn fastback with a sora tiagra mix. It gets ridden several times a week, and aside from adjusting it once or twice a season the drivetrain has been trouble free. Sora is fine,and tiagra is pretty deluxe for someone of my means.


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## martywoodman (Jan 10, 2010)

*Tired of Sora Bashing*

I'm a little late to this conversation, but I've ridden my Sora bike 5,000 miles the past two years and love it. I spent less than $400 for a brand new bike, and because I wasn't sure just how serious I would be about cycling I bought a beginner bike. That hasn't stopped me from riding fast club rides every week, commuting three times a week and riding 4 centuries. No problems with overshifting and I've thrown my chain only once. I do intend to upgrade next year now that I know I'll stick with it, but the Sora components have been berry, berry good to me! Thanks for listening to my rant.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

martywoodman said:


> I'm a little late to this conversation, but I've ridden my Sora bike 5,000 miles the past two years and love it. I spent less than $400 for a brand new bike, and because I wasn't sure just how serious I would be about cycling I bought a beginner bike. That hasn't stopped me from riding fast club rides every week, commuting three times a week and riding 4 centuries. No problems with overshifting and I've thrown my chain only once. I do intend to upgrade next year now that I know I'll stick with it, but the Sora components have been berry, berry good to me! Thanks for listening to my rant.


I agree that Sora is perfectly adequate. My only concern was that since the OP is used to higher end components on his MTB, he would be disappointed in the lower end components on a road bike.

Everyone knows it's cheaper to buy the bike you want rather than to upgrade a less expensive one later. Ergo, I posted my agreement that I would have also directed the OP toward a higher-end road bike; something with 105, Rival, or Centaur (covering all 3 major component manufacturers). Sora is fine - unless you've been using XTR/X9 or XX on a MTB; then you'll be bothered by the shifting quality/bling factor.


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## Tommy Walker (Aug 14, 2009)

*Budget, what Budget*



estone2 said:


> That's how you blow a budget. If I ride a more expensive bike, I want it, and suddenly my budget gets blown to hell and back.


You are correct, but I am glad I broke mine. I originally thought I would spend $1,500 and that would get me a very high end bike, but after test riding, everything I would settle for was $3,000 and I was leaning toward spending $3,600; so my range (not budget) became $1,500 (Felt F75) to $3,500 (Cervelo RS or was thinking about the Pinerello FP3...which was outside the upper limit) then the 10% discount kicked in and made the RS well within the range.

I couldn't be happier. The ride is fantastic. I have done rides this year and feel no pain, I mean no pain. I did the Cary, NC Tour de Cure; 80 miles back to back in 95 degree heat. This guy I went down, who is a tri-athlete with had cramps all night and did not ride the second day as more than half the other riders; I felt no pain.

There is really a lot to be said about getting a good fit, working with your LBS, finding the right bike, the right geometry and knowing what you want before you put down the money. I also thinkyou need to define what your riding is going to be, I wanted distance, not really racing. So I go on several long rides over the weekend.

I have another friend, great rider, *got a deal* on a bike for $1,500; less than a year later, he is changing out the group set from 105 to Ultegra 6700.

*Bottom line:* _I didn't know what my budget was until I knew what I wanted._


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