# Campagnolo 11 front derailleur shift problem



## tigoat (Jun 6, 2006)

Trying to put together my first Campy 11 bike and ran into a problem with the front derailleur and shifter. It has the four distinguish kicks/positions but the outer click will not engage. Well, it engages but it will not hold the position. By increasing the cable tension, I can basically shift to the large ring with the thir click, making the fourth position useless. I have tried various tensions but no luck. I have put together several Campy 10 bikes before and have never encounteredd this problem. I wonder if my shifter is defective. The shifter is Record 11 2010 model and the front derailleur is Super Record 11 2011 model. Any insight? Thanks!


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## PRB (Jun 15, 2002)

Perhaps it's hitting the stop before it engages all the way? 

FWIW I'm only using 3 clicks to go all the way across the crank on my 11sp.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

tigoat said:


> Trying to put together my first Campy 11 bike and ran into a problem with the front derailleur and shifter. It has the four distinguish kicks/positions but the outer click will not engage. Well, it engages but it will not hold the position. By increasing the cable tension, I can basically shift to the large ring with the thir click, making the fourth position useless. I have tried various tensions but no luck. I have put together several Campy 10 bikes before and have never encounteredd this problem. I wonder if my shifter is defective. The shifter is Record 11 2010 model and the front derailleur is Super Record 11 2011 model. Any insight? Thanks!


Did you route the cable around the FD using the correct (new) way?


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## tigoat (Jun 6, 2006)

PRB said:


> Perhaps it's hitting the stop before it engages all the way?
> 
> FWIW I'm only using 3 clicks to go all the way across the crank on my 11sp.


I believe that I had the screw backed out all the way. So you are not using the fourth (the outer) position on yours 11? I can make my work just fine with 3 clicks from inner to outer with the right clearance but man I hate to abandom the fourth position after using 4 clicks with 10 speed all these years.


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## tigoat (Jun 6, 2006)

orange_julius said:


> Did you route the cable around the FD using the correct (new) way?


I wrapped the wire around top, as it seemed to be the most logical way with best mechanical advantage to operate the linkage. It is late now but I will see if I can snap a picture of it tomorrow to show you guys. Thanks!


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## Al1943 (Jun 23, 2003)

Did you set the high limit screw with the chain on the large chainring and smallest cassette cog?
Use the derailleur setup instructions found at Park Tool Co. » Park Tool Co..


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## PRB (Jun 15, 2002)

tigoat said:


> I believe that I had the screw backed out all the way. So you are not using the fourth (the outer) position on yours 11? I can make my work just fine with 3 clicks from inner to outer with the right clearance but man I hate to abandom the fourth position after using 4 clicks with 10 speed all these years.


Right, I'm not using the 4th (and outer) click. I figured if I didn't need it why worry about trying to make it work....

Edited to add: I found this on another forum while searching for something else...


> 11 speed FDs can be set up two ways. Using 3 clicks to produce a minimal clearance between the chain and right side of the cage in the big ring and smallest cog should allow nearly all of the cogs to be used with no need to trim the FD - good thing because there is no trim click to the left with that setup. The other option uses 4 clicks. You turn the big ring limit screw out a little and get more clearance on the right side, but that causes the need for a trim click at about the 8th cog. Either setup works.


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## onespeedbiker (May 28, 2007)

I had the same problem with a 10 speed and the cause was the derailleur cable was a little too slack. See if tightening the cable helps.


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## tinman143 (Aug 14, 2009)

orange_julius said:


> Did you route the cable around the FD using the correct (new) way?


please advise of this 'new' way. i'm a n00b


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

tinman143 said:


> please advise of this 'new' way. i'm a n00b


A n00b should carefully read the following excellent thread:
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/ca...cable-routing-campagnolo-11-speed-171968.html

In addition, a n00b should also visit the Holy Repository of Campagnolo online, which contains many documents and how-to videos.


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## tinman143 (Aug 14, 2009)

orange_julius said:


> A n00b should carefully read the following excellent thread:
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/ca...cable-routing-campagnolo-11-speed-171968.html
> 
> In addition, a n00b should also visit the Holy Repository of Campagnolo online, which contains many documents and how-to videos.


Those pics don't resemble, the least bit, of my front derailleur clamp bolt. IIRC, mine has a groove for clear cabling routing. Those online vids are just ok imo.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

tinman143 said:


> Those pics don't resemble, the least bit, of my front derailleur clamp bolt. IIRC, mine has a groove for clear cabling routing. Those online vids are just ok imo.


For Santo Tullio's sake, you must immediately post a picture or two of your Unholy Front Derailleur, lest it be an abomination. In the meantime, what model/year is it?


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## ronf100 (Jan 16, 2012)

There are only 3 stops. Check out the manual on the Campagnolo site


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## ronf100 (Jan 16, 2012)

Sorry that I did not post the link. I am a new member with too few posts


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## tinman143 (Aug 14, 2009)

orange_julius said:


> For Santo Tullio's sake, you must immediately post a picture or two of your Unholy Front Derailleur, lest it be an abomination. In the meantime, what model/year is it?




It's 2011 Chorus most likely...don't think I have 2012 stuff.


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## tigoat (Jun 6, 2006)

tinman143 said:


> please advise of this 'new' way. i'm a n00b


Actually, there is only one logical way to attach the cable to the anchor bolt, which is as shown in the manual, which is the way I have been using since 2006 with Campy 10 speed FD. The "wrong" way will require the cable to be in a S-bend position, which will pretty much trash your cable the first time it is anchored. You have to be very creative to attach the cable the wrong way.


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## tigoat (Jun 6, 2006)

Al1943 said:


> Did you set the high limit screw with the chain on the large chainring and smallest cassette cog?
> Use the derailleur setup instructions found at Park Tool Co. » Park Tool Co..


Yes I did set both limiting screws to account for 2 extreme clearances long before I attach the cable on the FD. I basically push the derailleur by hand to set the outer stop. I set the inner stop obvious with RD working first so the chain is on the largest cog. As an exercise, I unscrewed the outer limit screw all the way and was able to get the 4th position to engage but it push the FD too far out to be working right. If there is not enough cable tension, then it does not have enough juice to engage. As I said before I did play with different tensioning but just couldn't get the 4th position to work without interfering with the crank.


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## tigoat (Jun 6, 2006)

ronf100 said:


> There are only 3 stops. Check out the manual on the Campagnolo site


Yes I have read the manual many times. That statement is still unclear to me. Obviously, the 4th position is there so if the shifting from the small to the big ring must work in 3 steps according to the manual, then why is the 4th position there for. Also, what bothers me is that many others here including our resident Campy guy C-40 were able to make 4 clicks work, which is consistent with Campy's existing 10 speed systems. Oh well, it looks like I will have to settle with 3 clicks, as it seems to be working great so far. :mad2:


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## tigoat (Jun 6, 2006)

onespeedbiker said:


> I had the same problem with a 10 speed and the cause was the derailleur cable was a little too slack. See if tightening the cable helps.


If not enough tension, it does not have enough juice to push the chain up, but with more tension, it pushes the FD too far out to be able for the 4th position to engage. It feels like the gap between the 3rd and the 4th position in the shifter is too wide and the detent of the 4th position is too shadow.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

tigoat said:


> If not enough tension, it does not have enough juice to push the chain up, but with more tension, it pushes the FD too far out to be able for the 4th position to engage. It feels like the gap between the 3rd and the 4th position in the shifter is too wide and the detent of the 4th position is too shadow.


Sounds like an issue with a tight bend in the cable somewhere, or friction. The latter could be due to poorly cut housing. The index does have a range of tension over which it works properly. If there is a tight bend or friction due to housing endpoints, then a much higher tension than usual is needed to actuate the full range, and this tension might be too high for the index to work properly. 

Good luck figuring this out!


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## tigoat (Jun 6, 2006)

orange_julius said:


> Sounds like an issue with a tight bend in the cable somewhere, or friction. The latter could be due to poorly cut housing. The index does have a range of tension over which it works properly. If there is a tight bend or friction due to housing endpoints, then a much higher tension than usual is needed to actuate the full range, and this tension might be too high for the index to work properly.
> 
> Good luck figuring this out!


I do not discount that possibility but it is not likely the case here since I have the FD working great with 3 clicks with the same cable routing. In fact, I set mine up so the 4th click does not even exist, as once I sweep the 3rd click it hit the outer stop with the right clearance for the chain and large ring and the lever cannot go further into the 4th position to actual it. The RD was working smoothly from the getgo...With that said, there is always fiction in the system as long as you are bending housing and using cable stops so in most cases there is nothing you can do about that. I will be building another bike soon with 11s grouping so it will be interesting to see if they are all like that. 

By the way, I just got some Jagwire lubricated cables and L-3 4 mm and 5 mm housings this week, so I look forward to using these in place of the Campy cables for my next build. These cables and housings seem very high quality so hopefully they will make things even smoother. 

Thanks!


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## onespeedbiker (May 28, 2007)

tigoat said:


> Yes I have read the manual many times. That statement is still unclear to me. Obviously, the 4th position is there so if the shifting from the small to the big ring must work in 3 steps according to the manual, then why is the 4th position there for. Also, what bothers me is that many others here including our resident Campy guy C-40 were able to make 4 clicks work, which is consistent with Campy's existing 10 speed systems. Oh well, it looks like I will have to settle with 3 clicks, as it seems to be working great so far. :mad2:


 I think you over thinking this, according to the Campy Tech Manuel, you front derailleur is working as designed. 



> The Derailleur must work in 3 clicks


 My guess is this is as designed to solve an issue. With the early models, the front derailleur used to jump off the forth click while riding. They said they had fixed the problem and this may be what was done.

edit: I found this post that covers a lot of what is being discussed http://forums.roadbikereview.com/ca...cable-routing-campagnolo-11-speed-171968.html


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## gordy748 (Feb 11, 2007)

I have never counted the number of clicks on the front derailleur. Now I know.

I'm currently using 11 speed levers with 10 speed derailleurs, and after a few minor tweaks to the cable tension it all works fine. I do have some problems with the chainring shifter, though... Sometimes if I am in the small chainring, the lever will not move to allow me to change to the big chainring. But if I press the downshift button, I can then shift to the big chainring.

Weird or normal? Other than that my setup works fine.


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## tigoat (Jun 6, 2006)

onespeedbiker said:


> I think you over thinking this, according to the Campy Tech Manuel, you front derailleur is working as designed.
> 
> My guess is this is as designed to solve an issue. With the early models, the front derailleur used to jump off the forth click while riding. They said they had fixed the problem and this may be what was done.
> 
> edit: I found this post that covers a lot of what is being discussed http://forums.roadbikereview.com/ca...cable-routing-campagnolo-11-speed-171968.html


Hey thanks for posting those pages from the tech manual. Reading the thread from the link above is what makes me wanted to make the 4th click to work, especially C-40, who is very knowledgable about Campy stuff, had his working. Perhaps, those systems that work with the 4th click are the earlier models. My components are the latest models so if your theory is correct then mine are working as intended. As I said before, I have settled with 3 clicks with the FD for my 11 speed system. Cheers!


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*info...*



gordy748 said:


> I have never counted the number of clicks on the front derailleur. Now I know.
> 
> I'm currently using 11 speed levers with 10 speed derailleurs, and after a few minor tweaks to the cable tension it all works fine. I do have some problems with the chainring shifter, though... Sometimes if I am in the small chainring, the lever will not move to allow me to change to the big chainring. But if I press the downshift button, I can then shift to the big chainring.
> 
> Weird or normal? Other than that my setup works fine.


The thumb button is probably rubbing on the brake hood slot and not returning to the fully up position. You can't have any pressure on the thumb button and still operate the finger lever or vice-versa. Pull down on the lower edge of the brake hood to open up the slot.


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## gordy748 (Feb 11, 2007)

C-40 said:


> The thumb button is probably rubbing on the brake hood slot and not returning to the fully up position. You can't have any pressure on the thumb button and still operate the finger lever or vice-versa. Pull down on the lower edge of the brake hood to open up the slot.


Yep. I'm using gel pads under thick tape, which squashes the rubber hood a little. Not much, but just enough to prevent the thumb tab moving up just enough to cause the problem.

All sorted now. Thank you sir!


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