# Lance wins 2005 TdF by 11 minutes now!



## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

17:45 - The Final Top 10 Overall In The 92nd Tour de France

The top 10 in the general classification of the 2005 Tour de France is:
1. Lance Armstrong (USA) DSC - 3,608.0km in 86h15’02" (41.654km/h)
--guilty-OP-----2. Ivan Basso (Italy) CSC - at 4’40"
--guilty-OP-----3. Jan Ullrich (Germany) TMO - at 6’21"
--guilty-OP-----4. Francisco Mancebo (Spain) IBA - at 9’59"
5. Alexandre Vinokourov (Kazakstahn) TMO at 11’01"
6. Levi Leipheimer (USA) GST - at 11’21"
7. Mickael Rasmussen (Denmark) RAB - at 11’33"
8. Cadel Evans (Australia) DVL - at 11’55"
9. Floyd Landis (USA) PHO - at 12’44"
10. Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spain) PHO - 16’14"


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

Tongue in cheek, surely?


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## MikeBiker (Mar 9, 2003)

You may want to rethink having Floyd on the list. He might have been huffing testosterone back then.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Well, everyone on that list could be as doped as Basso and Ullrich for all we know...


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## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

OMFG! Lance really _is_ supernatural!


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Dan Gerous said:


> Well, everyone on that list could be as doped as Basso and Ullrich for all we know...



Most definitely....considering Levi's off year the next year when he was scared straight.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

rogger said:


> OMFG! Lance really _is_ supernatural!


Word!


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## WildBill (May 11, 2006)

Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spain) PHO - 16’14" Hope his asthma doesnt bother him as much as last year ! paalease ! And I bet no rider in their right mind would drink a few beers and some Jack the night before a tour stage again, you know how that works for ya ! Sorry Floyd ! And the Lion of Flanders was old !! Hey George won that stage fair and square ! And why did Lance chase down that break with Simeoni ?? Big sigh ! I dont know !! Popeye had spinach (the original epo) ! Poor Bluto ! Please ignore everything I wrote ! sshhhh I have to go, the nurse is coming with my meds now ! Btw - its all Tylers evil twins fault. 4 8 15 16 23 42


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Well, that pretty much resumes the situation...


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## cheddarlove (Oct 17, 2005)

bas said:


> Most definitely....considering Levi's off year the next year when he was scared straight.


I am so glad I'm not the only one that remembers that! When I try to remind my friends of Levi's lousy TT and why they look at me like I made it up! I was beginning to think I imagined the whole thing!


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Let us remember Lance's podium speech with Ullrich and Basso:

"To all the cynics, I'm sorry for you. I'm sorry you can't believe in miracles. This is a great sporting event and hard work wins it; Vive le Tour forever."




bas said:


> 17:45 - The Final Top 10 Overall In The 92nd Tour de France
> 
> The top 10 in the general classification of the 2005 Tour de France is:
> 1. Lance Armstrong (USA) DSC - 3,608.0km in 86h15’02" (41.654km/h)
> ...


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## Hairnet (Dec 17, 2006)

Lance was a close friend as well as a partner in the team that hired Basso. Hmmmm.

Who was Lance's docter?

Go down the list to Moreau, (if he finished) that might be your first place finisher.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

bas said:


> Let us remember Lance's podium speech with Ullrich and Basso:
> 
> "To all the cynics, I'm sorry for you. I'm sorry you can't believe in miracles. This is a great sporting event and hard work wins it; Vive le Tour forever."


It was a joke then, and a bigger joke now...


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*while I tend to think they all juice*



SilasCL said:


> It was a joke then, and a bigger joke now...


I'm still not sold on the 'best juicers won'

I think the best juiced riders beat the other juiced riders. so hard work does count for something


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

I will go along with that...doping is probably more compulsory than anything.

I think if you told Lance that he'd count you in the 'cynic' group.


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> I'm still not sold on the 'best juicers won'
> 
> I think the best juiced riders beat the other juiced riders. so hard work does count for something



That's why I'm not all bent out of shape about the current state of cycling. Doping or not, these guys are generally speaking on the same level.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*exactly*



Einstruzende said:


> That's why I'm not all bent out of shape about the current state of cycling. Doping or not, these guys are generally speaking on the same level.


I figure the playing field is still pretty level, maybe the biggest riders getting the most help but that would still mean Lance=Basso=Jan, etc........

I just don't buy the 'they are only better because they have better drugs'


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> I figure the playing field is still pretty level, maybe the biggest riders getting the most help but that would still mean Lance=Basso=Jan, etc........
> 
> I just don't buy the 'they are only better because they have better drugs'


From my limited understanding of the substances used, I tend to agree. It's not like I could take these while sitting on the couch for a few weeks and then drop some Cat. 1 riders.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

Hairnet said:


> Who was Lance's docter?


I don't know, but I hope he was better than your spelling teacher. (It's a joke! Without a spell checker I'd be dead- built in spell checker in Firefox, BTW.) 

Now personally, I do tend to be cynical, but I think the results have to stand until juicing is proved. Cynical as I am I also believe in 'innocent until proven guilty'. I just don't buy the, "I can't ride as fast as Lance therefore Lance is on drugs," argument. Somebody has to be best. And didn't the USOC team doctors find Lance had lowest production of lactic acid they'd ever measured in any athlete? I can see that being a big, big help for a cyclist every time my legs start to burn. 

And Lance, if you're reading this, you can make that check out to...


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

California L33 said:


> I don't know, but I hope he was better than your spelling teacher. (It's a joke! Without a spell checker I'd be dead- built in spell checker in Firefox, BTW.)
> 
> Now personally, I do tend to be cynical, but I think the results have to stand until juicing is proved. Cynical as I am I also believe in 'innocent until proven guilty'. I just don't buy the, "I can't ride as fast as Lance therefore Lance is on drugs," argument. Somebody has to be best. And didn't the USOC team doctors find Lance had lowest production of lactic acid they'd ever measured in any athlete? I can see that being a big, big help for a cyclist every time my legs start to burn.
> 
> And Lance, if you're reading this, you can make that check out to...


If your still aerobic and jacked up with extra red blood cells you don't exactly have to worry about lactic acid..... since production will remain low.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Pablo said:


> It's not like I could take these while sitting on the couch for a few weeks and then drop some Cat. 1 riders.


Well Eddy Merckx probably said it best (most likely after one of the times he was caught doping), "All the drugs in the world won't turn a mule into a race horse".

The studies on EPO only show about a 5-10% increase in sustainable power. If you figure a full-on program at very best might increase power by 20% you can see that drugs aren't going to turn a mediocre rider into a world beater.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

atpjunkie said:


> I'm still not sold on the 'best juicers won'
> 
> I think the best juiced riders beat the other juiced riders. so hard work does count for something


Hmmm. I dunno. If you're at the level just below the best juicers you might be pissed off. 

Let's say you're clean, but always in the second group. For the sake of argument this might be Hincapie, Horner, pick your favorite alsoran (and assume he's clean). Wouldn't it suck to have all the natural ability and drive to compete for a win, but just lacking that little bit extra necessary to be there at the finish?

JSR


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Hairnet said:


> Lance was a close friend as well as a partner in the team that hired Basso. Hmmmm.


Hmmmm what? Basso's doping issues occurred well before his employment by Discovery.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

bas said:


> If your still aerobic and jacked up with extra red blood cells you don't exactly have to worry about lactic acid..... since production will remain low.


True, and the problem with detecting blood doping in the first place. Anti-doping scientists have to be clever to detect it. My problem is their tests may be accurate at finding agents, but not exclusionary (resulting in so called "false positives"). It's like Floyd's '06 TDF stage 17 test. The amount was benign- far too low to offer any benefit. It could have pointed to blood doping, but along a circuitous path- 

1.) Floyd doped testosterone in the off season.
2.) He also blood doped with his own blood to avoid DNA tests snagging him.
3.) He collapsed on stage 16 and needed more blood.
4.) He accidentally used a bag from the off season with testosterone in it which resulted in there being just a trace in his blood from the test.

It's possible. There are also about a dozen other ways to end up with minute and non-race influencing amounts of drugs in your body. Testosterone is particularly nasty in that it can be absorbed through the skin. Which side to you err on? I guess it depends on whether you came in first or second.


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## Waxbytes (Sep 22, 2004)

Lance's doctor was Ferrari...


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

mohair_chair said:


> Hmmmm what? Basso's doping issues occurred well before his employment by Discovery.


I guess you missed in 2004 when Lance helped Basso through his Mothers cancer (or was it 2005)

That was before Bassos employment with Postal/Disco.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

bas said:


> I guess you missed in 2004 when Lance helped Basso through his Mothers cancer (or was it 2005)
> 
> That was before Bassos employment with Postal/Disco.


I don't get how you can create a link between Postal/Disco and Basso's doping, simply because Lance helped Basso through his mother's cancer. What are you even suggesting here? Perhaps Lance told Basso to take his mother's EPO and use if for himself???

Seriously. 

That's just idiotic. If you want to criticize Basso, that's fine. If you want to criticize Lance or Disco/Postal, that's fine. But criticize them for things they are doing or things they did, not things you THINK they did. There's plenty out there to work with--you don't need to make up anything. Going back through history to find instances where Basso might have spoken to someone on USPS or Disco, and then suggesting that that is a direct link from USPS/Disco to Basso's doping is easily one of the stupidest and most baseless things I've ever heard.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

:blush2:  :yikes: 



mohair_chair said:


> I don't get how you can create a link between Postal/Disco and Basso's doping, simply because Lance helped Basso through his mother's cancer. What are you even suggesting here? Perhaps Lance told Basso to take his mother's EPO and use if for himself???
> 
> Seriously.
> 
> That's just idiotic. If you want to criticize Basso, that's fine. If you want to criticize Lance or Disco/Postal, that's fine. But criticize them for things they are doing or things they did, not things you THINK they did. There's plenty out there to work with--you don't need to make up anything. Going back through history to find instances where Basso might have spoken to someone on USPS or Disco, and then suggesting that that is a direct link from USPS/Disco to Basso's doping is easily one of the stupidest and most baseless things I've ever heard.


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