# NE Italy + Dolomites mountain roads questions



## Ken Roberts (Oct 3, 2007)

I've been riding some of the high passes and mountain roads of northeast 
Italy, and now I've got some questions about them:

(a) Which of the passes and mountain roads in Italy are you most eager to ride over again? Why? 
Which ones to you plan to avoid riding again?

I've ridden several of the obvious passes over major roads in the Dolomites, but I notice the map has lots of other smaller roads (unpaved?) over other passes close by.
Which of those are especially interesting?
Which ones are not worth trying?

(b) riding from Spondinig/Spondigna to Meran/Merano: I've always avoided riding this because I didn't like the looks of it from driving the road several times. Seemed like lots of high-speed vehicle traffic going between the Reschenpass / Passo di Resia to Meran + Bozen. And a fair number of curves on a road not wide.
What your experience? 
Are there ways to avoid much of the distance on the main road?
Or is riding mostly on the main road not as bad as I'm imagining?

(c) riding from Meran to Bozen: There might be several ways to do this. 
(1) I've heard there's a bike path along the valley floor; 
(2) over Gampenjoch / Passo Palade and Mendel pass / Mendola high on the west side; 
(3) lower roads on the west side; 
(4) roads thru the hills on the east side. 
Any thoughts on which ones are more pretty and interesting, or which ones to avoid?

(d) Passo San Pellegrino and Passo di Rolle (somewhat south of Canazei): It looks like there's some different options for riding through or around there: 
What's prettier and more interesting?

farther east:
(e) Passo di Monte Croce Carnico (or Ploeckenpass) (1360m) is northeast from Monte Zoncolan on the Italy / Austria frontier: I think the Giro d'Italia has ridden over it twice, but what's it like with the road open for normal vehicle traffic?

(f) even farther east, do some of the mountains still have pointy peaks and sharp ridges like in the Dolomites (at least somewhat)? Or are the summits all more rounded and moderate? Or are there other things about the terrain that might make it worthwhile to continue riding east across Italy (perhaps with some crossings thru Austria?) to 
reach like say Kranskja Gora in Slovenia? 
what about riding over passes in Slovenia?
(g) Or would it be more interesting to ride more south to finish say in Trieste?

farther west:
(h) west from Stelvio and Mortirolo and Tirano is Passo di San Marco (1985m) -- anybody tried that?

Thanks for the help and ideas,

Ken


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## Ken Roberts (Oct 3, 2007)

*NE Italy + Dolomites high passes report*

Over the last few years I rode up and down lots of paved roads over high passes of northeast Italy, mostly riding single-day loop routes. I found lots of fun + pretty riding in the Dolomites (not a surprise) and other mountains, and I'd gladly do lots of it again. This year I finally connected it all into a continuous route, so I've ridden every kilometer west to east from the Bernina pass thru Bormio and Bolzano to Cortina d'Ampezzo + Misurina -- or from the Olympic ski resort of St Moritz to the Olympic ski resort of Cortina. And because I rode so much of it as loops, I've also covered a second route from east to west. I put together a set of 
reports + suggestions about the high passes
+
map . . .


The reports have lots of ideas about loop rides and up-and-back climbs that could be done while spending several days at a single base. Also ideas about multi-day "moving on" tours: not just one route, but different alternatives for many of the stages. I say which roads I liked best and why, and which parts I didn't like and would avoid.

I'd be glad to hear other suggestions (and corrections) for routes + riding.

Ken


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

If you were in Dolomites and didn't ride Giau you haven't seen anything. IMHO it is the most beautiful pass in Dolomites. Also must see in Dolomites are Pordoi and Fedaia. San Pellegrino is also nice. I was located in Aleghe which was bingo as it allowed us with its position to make rounds of 2 or even 3 passes in one day. Dolomites are nice because you don't have monster passes with 1700 m of climbing. All passes there are around 1000 m, but might be little steeper than usual  Last 5 km of Fedaia from Caprile is very hard. especialy after few days of climbing.
Like I said, Dolomites are nice because you can do many different and nice rounds there, combining both sides of passes.

Area around Bormio is also very nice. In that area there are Stelvio, Gavia and Mortirolo, something every cyclist should know about. It is absolutly must see. Stelvio and Gavia are spectacular and Mortirolo is insanly difficult. Gavia is in my top 3 most beautiful passes list, together with Bonette (from Jausiers) and Giau.
Even id Gavia is nicer, Stelvio is something why you go there. Stelvio is holy grail of every cyclist and probably the most talked about climb in cycling world. If you are located in Bormio you might have a slight problem, the famous Stelvio side is on the other side. No problem, just do what I did...climb it from Bormio, and descend to Switzarlend but over Umbrail pass which is third way up to the summit. The road there is unpaved, but in excellent condition so you will have no problem going down. When you are in the walley go around the mountain to the Prato di Stelvio from where the "real Stelvio begins".
Have in mind that Stelvio is monster climb from both sides, especially from Prato where you go from 950 to 2758 m above sea....that is 1800 m of ascent without a meter flat. Bormio is at 1220 m, so you do 300 m less there.
Gavia is also a giant climb, from both sides you have to do some 1400 m of ascent, but if you ask me the side from Ponte di Legno is the spectacular one.
Nice round from Bormio can be done if you climb Mortirolo first, descend to the other side, go to Ponte di Legno and Climb Gavia. From Bormio you can climb Mortirolo two ways...from mazzo which is the Mortirolo everyone is talking about and Grosio that is less difficult and good choice for tired legs and those climbing Gavia after.

Also, area in Slovenia around Kranjska Gora is spectacular. There are Vrsic and Mangart. Mangart is not pass (only one road to the top) but is one of the toughest climbs I have done.
You can do an nice round there....from Kranjska Gora on Vrsic, to the other side across spectacular valley of Soca river, before Bovec to the right (to the Log pod Mangartom and Predil) and up all the way to the Mangart. Climbing Mangart at about 1100 m. above sea there is Predil pass that goes to the Italy. Dont go over Predil yet...after metal bridge go right to the top of the Mangart at 2048 m and than back to the Predil. After Predil go to the Italy and through Tarvisio make a round and go back to Kranjska Gora. If you didn'r realize yet, Mangart is one of the giants I'm talking about, it goes from 590 to 2050 m with a kick of 20% in the middle. That round is about 115km and 2500+ m of climbing. It is one of nicest round I have done. The next day you can go the same but in other direction and without whole Mangart (only Predil). From that side Vrsic is more than hard enough  Third day you can go from Kranjska Gora over Podkoren to Austriy and back which will test your legs on return with some steep climbing. 4th day you will need some flat and road to Mojstrana and Jesenice is perfect for that. Ofcourse you'll need and day off the bike somewhere in between so you have something to do for a whole week. Also Austria is close so you can find some nice climbs there too.


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

If you are interested to see pics from my alpine cycling trips click here.


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## Ken Roberts (Oct 3, 2007)

smokva said:


> If you are interested to see pics from my alpine cycling trips click here.


Yes I just looked at lots of them -- you've cycled in lots of pretty mountain places -- some which I've ridden myself, some which I haven't yet, but would like to try.

One thing that would help a lot is if you would label or identify the places of more of those photos somehow. Otherwise I see a pretty photo from your Dolomites series and I want to ride there, but I don't know what road it's on. 

Ken


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## Ken Roberts (Oct 3, 2007)

smokva said:


> Area around Bormio is also very nice. In that area there are Stelvio, Gavia and Mortirolo . . .
> Stelvio . . . descend to Switzarlend but over Umbrail pass which is third way up to the summit. The road there is unpaved, but in excellent condition so you will have no problem going down. When you are in the walley go around the mountain to the Prato di Stelvio from where the "real Stelvio begins".


Yes that's how I did Stelvio last summer -- I liked it that way. (actually only a short section of the Umbrail road is unpaved)



> Nice round from Bormio can be done if you climb Mortirolo first, descend to the other side, go to Ponte di Legno and Climb Gavia.


I've been thinking of trying that loop. I've climbed both Gavia (going north-to-south) and Mortirolo (from Mazzo) independently, and I'd like to climb Gavia from the south -- but my problem with that loop idea is that I'm afraid of trying to climb Gavia _after_ climbing Mortirolo from Mazzo.



> If you were in Dolomites and didn't ride Giau you haven't seen anything.


I agree that Giau is pretty, maybe the prettiest, but there's lots of other worthwhile pretty roads in the Dolomites. 



> area in Slovenia around Kranjska Gora is spectacular.


Thanks for the recommendation -- and for some specific ideas about what to do there.



> Mangart is not pass (only one road to the top) but is one of the toughest climbs I have done.


How does it compare with the west side of Monte Zoncolan from Ovaro + Liariis? Mt Z is roughly halfway between Kranjska Gora and the Dolomites.

Ken


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

Ken Roberts said:


> Yes that's how I did Stelvio last summer -- I liked it that way. (actually only a short section of the Umbrail road is unpaved)


So, you know what I'm talking about  That is one spectacular round.



> I've been thinking of trying that loop. I've climbed both Gavia (going north-to-south) and Mortirolo (from Mazzo) independently, and I'd like to climb Gavia from the south -- but my problem with that loop idea is that I'm afraid of trying to climb Gavia _after_ climbing Mortirolo from Mazzo.


If you wonna climb Gavia from Ponte di Legno you have to get there somehow, and I'm afraid over the Mortirolo is the only way. As you climbed Mortirolo from Mazzo already climb it from Grossio next time and do the round back to Bormio over Gavia. If you had rest day the day before, Mortirolo from Mazzo and Gavia from Ponte di Legno can be done at the same day. Also have in mind that Mortirolo from Grossio is easier than Mazzo, but still very hard climb.
In that area I forgot about Bormio 2000 and passo Foscagno (connecting Bormio and Livigno) that are nice climbs for an "easy day" if you are in Bormio.



> I agree that Giau is pretty, maybe the prettiest, but there's lots of other worthwhile pretty roads in the Dolomites.


Yes, whole Dolomites are spectacular




> How does it compare with the west side of Monte Zoncolan from Ovaro + Liariis? Mt Z is roughly halfway between Kranjska Gora and the Dolomites.
> Ken


I haven't been on Zoncolan yet but it all depends on what kind of rider you are. For instance I find those long climbs like Stelvio, Manghen, Mangart or Bonette to be very hard on my legs that have to carry 100kg + bike up to the top.
Round that combines Vrsic from Kranjska Gora and Mangart from Log is very hard...fortunatly Vrsic from Kranjska Gora is easier than the other one. See the profiles yourself.
Mangart from Log
Vrsic from Kranjska Gora
Vrsic from Kal

Now, when I see Zoncolan profile I don't see how can anything be harder than that...those gradients are insane. I don't think I would enjoy climbing it without atleast one rest day before 
Compared to Zoncolan Mortirolo is a nice little flattish climb, and I know just how hard Mortirolo is.


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

Ken Roberts said:


> One thing that would help a lot is if you would label or identify the places of more of those photos somehow. Otherwise I see a pretty photo from your Dolomites series and I want to ride there, but I don't know what road it's on.
> 
> Ken


Yes, I was thinking about that and probably will do it one day


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## Ken Roberts (Oct 3, 2007)

smokva said:


> If you wonna climb Gavia from Ponte di Legno you have to get there somehow, and I'm afraid over the Mortirolo is the only way.


Yes the only reasonable way if you want to climb the south side of Gavia as a single-day loop tour from Bormio.
Sounds like you’ve pretty well figured out a strategy for how to use Bormio as a base for cycling.



> when I see Zoncolan profile I don't see how can anything be harder than that


I think that elevation profile for Zoncolan from Ovaro on salite.ch and climbbybike.com is is not accurate. Actually that road has a more even steepness -- otherwise I could not have made it to the top all pedaling (instead of walking some parts). The inaccuracy is not surprising because accurately measuring the steepness of sections of curvy + steep road is tricky. See this technical explanation.Anyway I think Mortirolo from Mazzo is more interesting and more scenic, so I’m more likely to try Mortirolo again than I am Zoncolan.​


> Round that combines Vrsic from Kranjska Gora and Mangart from Log is very hard


Looks like something I’d like to try sometime. I never heard of Mangart until your message -- then I checked more on the web and it looks like an interesting mountain -- and I’m interested to ride up to it from the west side -- so thanks for the idea.
Unfortunately I do not yet have a good road map for northwest Slovenia. But here’s my first attempt to calculate the vertical climbing (m = meters) and horizontal distance (km) for riding that loop in the clockwise direction: 

start Tarvisio (754m) 
-> +100m / 18km (854m) Ratece + Kranjska Gora (847m) 
-> +800m / 10.5km Vršič (1612m) 
-> -1200m / 32km Trenta (622m) + Soča / Sonzia (487m) + Kal (447m) 
-> +700m / 18km Log pad Mangartom / Bretto (650m) + Predel / Passo Predil (1156m) 
-> up+back West side of Mangart +900m / 23km
-> -400m / 13km Tarvisio
If I add some more vertical meters for extra ups and downs I don’t know about, I get 
Total = something like 
+2800 vertical meters of climbing over about 115km distance 
. . . (or in Imperial units +9200 vertical feet over 72 miles)

Am I making some mistake in that calculation?

Ken


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

2800 meters of climbing sounds reasonable. Last time I was there I didn't have Polar yet, but will ask one of my friends to send me Polar file and than we'll see what will it say. But you are not far with your calculation.


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

Here is the Polar profile of the round. According to it the round is 2736 m of climbing, but it missed some 20 m on the top of Mangart so we can say it is around 2750 m. You can see that Vrsic from opposite side (Bovec) is an nice climb too.



Here is the link to an nice tourist map of the area around Bovec. Mangart, Vrsic and Predil are also shown.
https://www.bovec.si/zemljevid/dolina/images/zemljevid_bovsko.jpg

And here is the whole round on the map:
https://www.summitpost.org/images/original/75691.jpg


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## Ken Roberts (Oct 3, 2007)

Thanks a real lot -- that's all the information I could want to prepare for riding it.



smokva said:


> You can see that Vrsic from opposite side (Bovec) is an nice climb too.


Good -- since I might want to ride the loop in the direction. 

Now that I know about Mangart, I'm wonder if there's some good way to ride (mostly on paved roads?) around the higher mountain of Slovenia: Triglav.

Ken


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

Ken Roberts said:


> Thanks a real lot -- that's all the information I could want to prepare for riding it.
> 
> 
> Good -- since I might want to ride the loop in the direction.
> ...


There is no road that will get you on the Triglav with bike


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## Ken Roberts (Oct 3, 2007)

smokva said:


> There is no road that will get you on the Triglav with bike


OK, so for second best I could think about riding _around_ Triglav -- like this tour.
Doing the obvious calculation from that tour page gives a total for the loop of about +3500 vertical meters of climbing over 223 km distance - (or +11500 vertical feet over 139 miles). But I might be misunderstanding something.
I'm not sure how much of that loop is paved or unpaved.

Here's some photos + story of a guy who cycled the road around the east side of Mt Triglav, then left his bike and climbed on foot to the top of the peak. Sounds interesting to me.

Ken


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

Hiking to the Triglav sounds more interesting than cycling around it 

BTW If you decide to visit Croatia as did the guy you mentioned have in mind that there are fantastic scenary in Croatia that you can visit with a road bike. Also we in Croatia (yes I'm from Croatia) don't have Alps, but have Velebit and Biokovo with stunning climbs like Ucka or Sv. Jure. Both start at the seal level and go to 1400 m (Ucka) and 1762 m (Sv. Jure on Biokovo). Sv. Jure is on pair with any alpine climb I have taken, even harder than most. I think you won't find souch contrast of high mountains rising from the sea anywhere in the world.
I recommend you to put Sv. Jure (on Biokovo) on your cycling map and future plans.


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## Ken Roberts (Oct 3, 2007)

smokva said:


> If you decide to visit Croatia as did the guy you mentioned have in mind that there are fantastic scenary in Croatia that you can visit with a road bike. Also we in Croatia (yes I'm from Croatia) don't have Alps, but have Velebit and Biokovo with stunning climbs like Ucka or Sv. Jure. Both start at the seal level and go to 1400 m (Ucka) and 1762 m (Sv. Jure on Biokovo). Sv. Jure is on pair with any alpine climb I have taken, even harder than most. I think you won't find souch contrast of high mountains rising from the sea anywhere in the world.


Thanks another place to ride (and climb) that I had not heard of before. I found this
detailed description of Biokovo peak + road
also there's at least one YouTube video of riding on the Biokovo road.

Looks like Velebit is much closer to Mangart + Triglav -- so I guess I'm more likely to get there. Seems like Velebit inspires lots of love from lots of people who know it - (YouTube even has a song about it). Any advice about which of the Velebit roads have the prettiest and most interesting riding?

Looks like Ucka is over in the Istria peninsula -- do you think there's lots of other good road cycling in Istria? (Interesting that the TCI Atlante stradale map book for north _Italy_ includes as page 26 a map of southern Istria).

Seems like other people like riding on some the islands of Croatia -- which parts of those do you like best for road cycling?
Can you just ride the main "E65" road along the coast, or do you need to know some of the side roads?

Thanks a lot,

Ken


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## ChristianB (Jul 27, 2004)

*Slovenija*

Being a foreigner living in Slovenija I can only recommend cycling here. For sure the area around Vršič pass is a treat. The western area around Ljubljana is quite nice too, with smaller hills (300-500 vm), but quite nice. Maribor (2nd largest city in Slovenija - close to austrian border) also provides some nice (800-1000 vm) climbs up on the Pohorje massif and quite nice rides in short but steep wine hills.

If you want some more info, please ask, I will be happy to introduce you to this little hidden gem 

Cheers


Christian


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## Ken Roberts (Oct 3, 2007)

Thanks a lot Christian -- I added those new ideas to my file. 

I hope I can get over there -- most likely it'll be in connection with a trip to the Dolomites.

Ken


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

Ken Roberts said:


> Thanks another place to ride (and climb) that I had not heard of before. I found this
> detailed description of Biokovo peak + road
> also there's at least one YouTube video of riding on the Biokovo road.


Trust me, Biokovo from Makarska is a must ride. Also if you stay in Makarska there are some nice roads towards Vrgorac, Ploce and Metkovic. But have in mind that traffic in July/August in coastal Croatia is heavy. Also at the sea level it can be too hot for a pleasant ride. I recommend you to go there in May/Jun or September/October. Also don't be surprised if strong bora doesn't allow you to ride for few days. This year I was riding on Biokovo at 15th of October and when I got back to Makarska I jumped in the sea and swim. Peninsula Peljesac is also very close (by a ferry from Ploče or road) and you have something to ride there for few days.



> Looks like Velebit is much closer to Mangart + Triglav -- so I guess I'm more likely to get there. Seems like Velebit inspires lots of love from lots of people who know it - (YouTube even has a song about it). Any advice about which of the Velebit roads have the prettiest and most interesting riding?


We are proud that Velebit is not polluted with roads like French/Italian/Austrian Alps. It is one of the last places in the Europe where you can still see a bear or a wolf, so hiking or MTB is probably much better choice than road bike if you wish to feel the truth nature of that exceptional mountain. Even if there are no many roads those that you will find are very nice.
I don't know even where to start
If you are in Rijeka area you must climb Ucka ofcourse, but there is also a great climb to Jelenje pass. And when you climbed Jelenje it would be a shame not to visit region of Gorski Kotar. Sea side of Velebit is in Dalmacija and the other side is in Gorski Kotar. Those two sides are totaly different as if they are not the same mountain, both beautiful on it's own way. If you are in Gorski Gotar there is a nice road through Slovenia that follows river Kupa (slovenian: Kolpa) from it's root.
Back to Rijeka....halfway to Jelenje you can turn left and go to a nice little ski resort Platak...nice ride.
From Rijeka you can take a ferry to island Cres (Brestova-Porozina line) that is also great for a ride. I bet you have never done 2000 m of climbing on a island...well the Cres offers just that. You can start at Porozina, ride through whole Cres to Mosor that is on the other side of island. If you are brave enough at this point you can go over the bridge to the Losinj island. If you are not brave you can tourn and go home.
Also from Cres you can go to Merag from where a ferry can take you to island Krk that has a bridge connecting it with a land, although traffic from Krk bridge over Bakar to Rijeka might be a small problem.
Also there are numerous ways to make nice round at the Istra peninsula.

From Rijeka, more to the south there is interesting region around Senj. I like this part very much.
One of the most spectacular rides I have ever done was over Velebit from Senj to Ogulin. The route was Senj > Alan > Dreznica > Jasenak > Ogulin. Variant over Krivi Put (Krivi Put means Wrong Way in english...go figure) is also possible. All is paved.
Third way to pass over Velebit in that area is from Senj over Vratnik. Vratnik is a nice climb, but you could have traffic problems there as it is the main connection of Senj to highway.
There is also a forth way to pass over Velebit there...from Sv. Juraj over Oltari to Krasno and Otocac. If you are with a MTB don't miss to climb from Oltari to Zavizan. Zavizan is at 1594 m with spectacular nature and views.
Round Senj > Otocac > Perusic > Gopsic > Karlobag > Senj could be a nice round for a strong rider. Before highway was built road from Gopsic to Karlobag had heavy traffic, but I think you won't have a problem any more, especially off the season.
As I said before, because of heats and heavy tourism traffic we locals enjoy off the season there.

Next to the south and the last pass over Velebit from sea to continental Croatia is over Obrovac to Gračac.

More to the south mountains are further from the sea, but there are also more possibilities for various rounds in areas around Knin, Drniš, Sinj, Biograd, Trogir...

Even more to the south you get to the Biokovo and Makarska area we have already covered enough.



> Looks like Ucka is over in the Istria peninsula -- do you think there's lots of other good road cycling in Istria? (Interesting that the TCI Atlante stradale map book for north _Italy_ includes as page 26 a map of southern Istria).


Yes, there are nice rounds in Istra, but have in mind it is not as flat as it looks on the map.



> Seems like other people like riding on some the islands of Croatia -- which parts of those do you like best for road cycling?
> Can you just ride the main "E65" road along the coast, or do you need to know some of the side roads?


If you wish to ride along whole Croatian coast from the north to the south than E65 is probably the only way you can do it. There are no side roads beacuse the mountain is so close to the sea that there is nowhere to put side roads. Bad for traffic, but spectacular for tourism. Few years ago highway was built and now E65 (also called "Jadranska Magistrala") is mostly used for local traffic. One of my future plans is just that...ride E65 from Rijeka to Makarska and back. One way E65 only, and back with side quests to islands.
That brings us to other part of your question...there are some very nice islands and peninsulas to ride.
As i said before, Cres and Losinj are spectacular to ride. Biggest croatian island Krk is also quite accessible, but not as spectacular as Cres.
More to the south island Pag should be a nice ride too. It is famous for its cheese, lamb and salt production.
Next to the south are two islands with a bridge connecting them...Ugljan and Pasman. There is a road that will get you over those two. Pasman has some of the nicest beeches I have seen in Dalmatia.
Next Island Murter is connected with a bridge, so it is easy to get there.
More to the south are Solta, Brac, Hvar and Korculawhich are highly glorificated by locals. Hvar is the longest and the sunniest Croatian island and one of the most beautiful islands in the world as the locals like to say.
Now we are almoast at Makarska area where peninsula Peljesac shouldn't be missed. After Pelješac we only have Mljet as the last big adriatic island. Mljet is the greenest of all Adriatic's islands with so beautiful flora and fauna that the western part of it become a national park.

That covers only the biggest islands one should visit on a bike trip from north to south. There are some interesting smaller ones I didn't mention but for now I think there is enough material to think about. Bauty of Croatian coastline is that it contains more than one thousand dazzling islands. If you were to look out to sea from anywhere along the Croatian coastline, it would be unusual for you not to see a green speck in the distance! Most of the islands, however, are small and uninhabited and there are therefore only 20 or so larger islands which are popular with tourists.


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## Ken Roberts (Oct 3, 2007)

Great -- like you've given us a guidebook to riding the islands of Croatia.

I've copied all that into my file of ideas -- hope I get to ride it.

Thanks a real lot,

Ken


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

Ken Roberts said:


> One thing that would help a lot is if you would label or identify the places of more of those photos somehow. Otherwise I see a pretty photo from your Dolomites series and I want to ride there, but I don't know what road it's on.
> 
> Ken


Hi Ken!

Last month I was in Dolomites again, but this time I did my homework and organized photos better 
http://www.haerbe.net/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=33629
If I find some time I even might write some report with GPS tracks


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## cityeast (Sep 16, 2004)

*Stelvio Pass*

I did the Stelvio Pass last week as part of a 167km / 3700m round trip from Zernez (Switzerland).

The route went from Zernez - Scoul - Nauders - Reschenpass - Mals - Prato del Stelvio - Stelvio Pass - Umbrail Pass - Santa Maria - Ofenpass - Zernez

That was a full 10 hours for us from start to finish with a few breaks along the way. It was quite a warm day, and the photos are here


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## Rider07 (Feb 25, 2007)

*Stelvio*

I road Stelvio last summer on the way to the Dolomites. It was good fun and worth the side trip. Dolomites are great. I was in a rush and would have enjoyed it more if I had more time, was only in Dolomites 3 days and took one day off. I am usually at sea level and it is tough going up some of those hills. I also spent some time in Austria, very nice as well. Look for the places without the crowds/traffic. It makes a big difference. Great info on this thread-I want to go back.


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## Ken Roberts (Oct 3, 2007)

Rider07 said:


> Look for the places without the crowds/traffic.


OK, so what are some good low-traffic places?

Stelvio surely not, but you seemed to enjoy that.

Ken


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## Rider07 (Feb 25, 2007)

I did Stelvio in August, very low traffic, was on a Monday I think. Fair bit of traffic in Dolomites but nothing compared to some of the French Alps. It is relative, I live in SE Florida which is a war zone and do a lot of riding along coastal areas of France and Italian Med, bike friendly but lots of traffic until you get inland a little. Not much traffic in Dolomites and Stelvio, maybe a bit more on the weekends.


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## Ken Roberts (Oct 3, 2007)

Rider07 said:


> I did Stelvio in August, very low traffic, was on a Monday I think. Fair bit of traffic in Dolomites but nothing compared to some of the French Alps. It is relative, I live in SE Florida which is a war zone and do a lot of riding along coastal areas of France and Italian Med, bike friendly but lots of traffic until you get inland a little. Not much traffic in Dolomites and Stelvio, maybe a bit more on the weekends.


Maybe Monday is a good day for avoiding traffic. I think starting early in the morning helps. Last time I rode Stelvio was on a sunny Sunday in June, and there were lots and lots of motorcycles. Not a surprise, since lots of motorcycle riders like the same kind of mountain roads that I do. 

My own strategy is to ride the most interesting + pretty mountain roads on the good-weather days -- and just accept that lots of motorcycles and cars will make the similar choices -- so there will be more motor traffic -- but for me it's still worth it.

One thing Sharon and I do is to be out riding in the mountains in months other than July and August. I think the best months for the prettiest views in the Europe mountain roads are June and May (or perhaps April for the lower roads)

Ken


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

Last weekend I did that  loop including Vršić and Mangart again. Here are few interesting pics...


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## Ken Roberts (Oct 3, 2007)

Looks like a great loop to ride, with those photos.

Problem is that it's hard for me to get good flights to a city anywhere near there. So maybe the closest I'm going to get for awhile is northeast Italy like Trentino Alto Adige / Sudtirol.
Like here's the good old Sella Ronda a couple of weeks ago. 

I've been finding some other spectacular loop rides around Trentino, like (a) around Monte Baldo by the east side of lake Garda, and (b) around the Cima di Vezzana (thru the towns of San Martino di Castrozza, Agordo, Falcade, over Passo di Rolle and some others).

Ken


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

Ken Roberts said:


> Looks like a great loop to ride, with those photos.
> 
> Problem is that it's hard for me to get good flights to a city anywhere near there. So maybe the closest I'm going to get for awhile is northeast Italy like Trentino Alto Adige / Sudtirol.


Yes, it is hard for you to get there. Probably the easiest way for you would be a plane to Ljubljana from where you can cycle all the way to Jesenice and Kranjska Gora. From Ljubljana airport to Jesenice it is only 70 km of local road. You can cycle or maybe you can rent a car so you can use Kranjska Gora as a camp from where you can fast get to other interesting places in Slovenia, Italy (like Zoncolan) and Austria (nice climbs in area around Innerkrens and national park Nockberge)





> Like here's the good old Sella Ronda a couple of weeks ago.


Been there, done that. I was actually in Alleghe this summer again:

*Day 1*: Alleghe > Arabba > Passo Pordoi > Passo Sella > Passo Gardena > Corvara > Passo Campalongo > Arabba > Caprile > Alleghe
*Day 2*: Alleghe > Colle St. Lucia > Selva di Cadore > Passo Staulanza
*Day 3*: Alleghe > Caprille > Passo Fedaia > Canazei > Moena > Passo San Pellegrino > Cencenighe > Alleghe
*Day 4*: rest from bike, hiking at Lagazuoi (above passo Falzarego and passo Valparola)
*Day 5*: Alleghe > Colle St. Lucia > Passo Falzarego + Passo Valparola > Pocol > Passo Giau > Selva di Cadore > Alleghe
*Day 6*: Alleghe > Cencenighe > Passo Valles > Cencenighe > Alleghe

In that area still in my "LEFT TO DO BOOK" are: both sides of Duran, Fedaia from Canazei, both sides of Rolle, both sides of Cereda, both sides of Tre Croci, both sides of Cibiana, both sides of Furcia (Furkel) and Plan de Corones (aka Kronplatz).
When I see that list I realize that I'll have to go few more times there, and I already was twice.



> I've been finding some other spectacular loop rides around Trentino, like (a) around Monte Baldo by the east side of lake Garda, and (b) around the Cima di Vezzana (thru the towns of San Martino di Castrozza, Agordo, Falcade, over Passo di Rolle and some others).
> Ken


Yes, I was also at Garda, but I was to the north at the Riva del Garda....like I said in that other post 
I go to Dolomites in the summer so try to stay off the places with low altitude like Belluno and Agordo. That is the reason I never did the loop around Pale di san Martino: Agordo > Falcade > Passo Valles > Passo Rolle > Tonadico > Passo Cereda > Agordo. It is high on my wishlist, but probably more suitable for spring or autumn than summer.


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## Ken Roberts (Oct 3, 2007)

I haven't ever been to Alleghe yet -- or about half those passes you rode to from it. 

You certainly got up and down lots of vertical on lots of days. Glad to see you took off a day to go hiking. In the last year or so, Sharon and I started trying _via ferrata_ climbing, something the Dolomites are famous for - (and there are several via ferrata climbs around Lagazuoi and Falzarego, but it happens that I haven't done any of them). So on this last trip I was closer to alternating days between bicycling and via ferrata climbs.

There's also some good _via ferrata_ climbs by that road by Dro + Drena, and others around Arco + Riva del Garda.

Lots more to do in northeast Italy.

Ken


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

And for those who have yet to visit Dolomites here are some routes:


*Day 1*: Alleghe > Arabba > Passo Pordoi > Passo Sella > Passo Gardena > Corvara > Passo Campalongo > Arabba > Caprile > Alleghe






*Day 2*: Alleghe > Colle St. Lucia > Selva di Cadore > Passo Staulanza






*Day 3*: Alleghe > Caprille > Passo Fedaia > Canazei > Moena > Passo San Pellegrino > Cencenighe > Alleghe






*Day 4*: rest from bike, hiking at Lagazuoi (above passo Falzarego and passo Valparola)

*Day 5*: Alleghe > Colle St. Lucia > Passo Falzarego + Passo Valparola > Pocol > Passo Giau > Selva di Cadore > Alleghe






*Day 6*: Alleghe > Cencenighe > Passo Valles > Cencenighe > Alleghe


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## Ken Roberts (Oct 3, 2007)

Good - lots of helpful ideas there.

I think you're right that Agordo is kinda low elevation -- so maybe riding the whole loop around Falcade + St Martino di Castroza isn't the best idea. But just visiting Passo di Rolle and P Valles on the northwest side has some rather good mountain views.

Ken


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## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

A number of rides in NE Italy, with Google Earth track, map, profile, and Garmin Connect data are available here. More being added every week: http://dolomiti-friulane.blogspot.com/


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## crewman (Jan 29, 2004)

Hey Bill2 have you tried this route. 

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/13796312

I have family in San Daniele, I spent a few weeks riding in the area.


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## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

Not in that direction, though I tried on Friday (ran into rain). I'll try again Wednesday. The Giro is going that way enroute to Zoncolan.

I have done it in the opposite direction a couple of times- up Sella Chianzutan from Tolmezzo- once in 2001 on my old Pinarello and last September on my "newer" bike- I wrote a blurb about it here: http://expatsinitaly.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=5035


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## numbnutz (Mar 14, 2005)

awesome thread. thanks for posting Ken (by the way, you must be the same as KenR who posts about europe skiing on ttips??). I am headed to Selva in the Val Gardena for 5 days in July and have my mind on a few rides. Right now I am planning on the "extended" Sella Ronda (substituting Falzarego for Camplongo), Passo delle Erbe in the Villnoss, and maybe (if I can squeeze it in without damaging my marriage), the Sella - San Pellegrino - Fediaia - Sella loop. Let me know if you have any other/better suggestions for riding in/out of Selva, and any tips on which direction. 

Also, if anyone has any tips about riding out of Como, I will be there for a few days before Selva (and yes, I know about the ride to Bellagio and over the Madonna di Ghisallo).

Thanks!!!


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## Ken Roberts (Oct 3, 2007)

If you're going to extend the Sella Ronda, then it's pretty spectacular to go for Passo Giau (also makes it much harder). 
If going to Falzarego, I'd say maybe try to do something more than just have a snack at the Pass. Maybe a side trip to ride up toward Rifugio Cinque Torri? (I haven't done it).

Como: I would do Ghisallo climbing from the North: steeper, more dramatic. We descended to the south, pleasant enough, but I felt sorry for the riders we saw climbing up that way -- seemed like just a long moderate slog. Might be some other routes to Ghisallo more interesting which we didn't try. 
Road betw Como and Bellagio is outstanding, road N fr Como on W side of lake also nice, then we took nice ferry ride to Bellagio.
Trying to ride roads S + W of Como away from the lake, gets into more challenging routefinding, but surely not the most rewarding farming terrain I've ridden. Might be a better bet to do more km alongside different arms of the lake, connect w ferry.
Locals do a steep-ish climb from Como up to Brunate (big view on a clear day).

The stuff that Bill is posting about the Friuli side of the Dolomites looks very pretty + interesting. On the other side, I've found that the wider Adige valley has a wide variety of interesting riding, from flat to gentle to steep to beyond-steep. See
riding from Tramin / Termeno

Also you might want to try a day of _via ferrata_ climbing, for which the Dolomites are very famous. (though likely Corvara makes a better base for VF than Selva / Wolkenstein). Maybe hire a guide for a day. There's an interesting + pretty VF climb just N of Passo Gardena / Groednerjoch which is a popular introduction, with interesting climbing and a great view (though not easy -- and getting back down is a big tricky)

I find that a trip combining bicycling + climbing is really great. But lots of cyclists found that their legs aren't trained to handle the _impacts_ of walking back _down_ from the climbs. So I made up this 
list of via ferrata climbs with less down-walking

Ken

P.S. so why aren't you 
skiing ?


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## numbnutz (Mar 14, 2005)

The summer of cycling love continues for me. Just got back from my trip to Italy. It was utterly spectacular!

Sunrise from Torno









The shrine









Menaggio waterfront









Along Lake Lugano









Shignano climb









Passo Giau









The 33 Tornanti of the Passo Pordoi









Somewhere on a tiny one lane road in the Villnoestal. I would ride a 110k loop in the morning, then scramble through one of those V-notches in that serrated ridge in the afternoon. A damn good day all around.









Passo Gardena









Passo Sella









More here.


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## Ken Roberts (Oct 3, 2007)

You surely are succeeding in getting your bike to some great places -- on days with great (or at least good) weather -- and sharing great photos with us. It was well worth going thru your other photos.

I haven't done the Würzjoch / Passo delle Erbe, so now after seeing your photos I'm very eager to ride it (and maybe also climb some of those peaks).

Schignano is another new one for my list. I once was paid to spend lots of days in Lugano, but astonishingly I was not into cycling in Europe then (and not so much into hill-climbs), so I only knew about the main road connecting between lakes Lugano + Como from driving it (which made me _not_ want to take my bike on it) -- but did not find the remarkable little one you found. 

Also envious of your view down on Passo Giau road, since I've been wanting to hike up the Nuvolau peak.



> I would ride a 110k loop in the morning, then scramble through one of those V-notches in that serrated ridge in the afternoon.


Nice combination.
I like both scrambling + cycling, but I have not yet done both on the same day in Italy. Something for me to aspire to next time.

Ken

Danger: Now that I've gotten into the _via ferrata_ form of scrambling, I'm finding it's taking priority in my planning for trips over bicycling. Maybe because there's like 300-400 via ferrata climbs in Italy, over 250 in nearby Austria + south Germany, over 100 in France -- versus a total of 1 in USA -- so visits to Europe are they only time I'm able to do that much great scrambling + climbing.​


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## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

Ken Roberts said:


> One thing Sharon and I do is to be out riding in the mountains in months other than July and August. I think the best months for the prettiest views in the Europe mountain roads are June and May (or perhaps April for the lower roads)
> 
> Ken


Agreed. Also September and October are lovely- much less trafficato than July-August.


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## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

Rode the Vrsic - Passo del Predil round yesterday (minus Mangart). Absolutely stunning scenery. I can't wait to go back. Thank you for the info smokva!


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## kozmos (Nov 17, 2010)

test test


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## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

Heads up for anyone touring in northern Italy next week. On the 18th they are having a second Sella Ronda Bike Day this year. The whole loop will be free of motorized vehicles. Don't know how the weather will be next week but yesterday it was spectacular.


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## ekid (Oct 4, 2011)

WARNING! New user-Uzbekistan info desired!
I can't post- msg."5 posts required before you can post"
"Contact us" msg.- no reply.
What gives? I am supposed to hi-jack some strangers post??!


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

Bill2 said:


> Rode the Vrsic - Passo del Predil round yesterday (minus Mangart). Absolutely stunning scenery. I can't wait to go back. Thank you for the info smokva!


You missed the best part, you will have to go back and ride Mangart from Bovec


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## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

You're right Smokva. I later rode the Bovec - Mangart climb and it was wonderful. Thanks so much for your description which got me interested in visiting Mangart. 

Also later rode Bovec to Vrsic pass. You're correct- it's much more difficult in that direction. Kobarid to Kolovrat also quite fun.


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## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

Ken Roberts said:


> Thanks another place to ride (and climb) that I had not heard of before. I found this
> detailed description of Biokovo peak + road
> also there's at least one YouTube video of riding on the Biokovo road.
> 
> ...


Here's a good write up about cycling up Ucka:
Rupikaber


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