# Pharmstrong: Master Dodgeball Player



## cda 455

Yes; I'm watching orca interview Pharmstrong.


He is in full dodgeball mode.


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## aclinjury

don't have cable TV. Please give a recap if you don't mind


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## cda 455

He's very fidgety, obviously uncomfortable shifting in his chair.


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## cda 455

2005 was his last doping season; as per Pharmstrong.


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## JasonB176

Go to oprah.com - that's how I'm watching it. I can't believe that he's claiming he didn't dope at all in 2009 and 2010!


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## robdamanii

He just confirmed MotoMan. Sean Yates is in doubt now.

He didn't read Tyler's book? Bullsh*t.

Directly disputed that he doped in the 09 comeback.


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## pittsey

I love how at the start of the interview he was playing the pity card saying how hard it was for him to live his life


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## sir duke

robdamanii said:


> He just confirmed MotoMan. Sean Yates is in doubt now.
> 
> He didn't read Tyler's book? Bullsh*t.
> 
> Directly disputed that he doped in the 09 comeback.


I'm watching what i can before i have to leave for work, looks like he's using the Hincapie Defence- clean as a whistle after 2006.
Didn't read Tyler's book? His lawyer's most certainly did. 

Lies to Armstrong are merely 'versions of events'.


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## JasonB176

So far I'm pretty disgusted. I thought it started off well with his unqualified 'yes' answers but since then, he's been less than honest.


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## dnice

so far he is answering the charges in a straightforward manner and avoiding scapegoating. and oprah is doing a fine job with the follow-up questions. not at all the evasive, meandering interview i expected.


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## ericTheHalf

The worst part of this is that I seriously asked one of my cycling buddies, "Are you watching Oprah?"


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## oily666

Where's Mike Wallace when you need him?


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## Tomahawk

My opinion is that we have reason to doubt some of his answers, but simply dismissing them as false as some of you are is a joke. You don't know the first thing about what really goes on inside the minds of pro cyclists. You just read the news articles like the rest of us. Give it a break.


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## cda 455

JasonB176 said:


> So far I'm pretty disgusted. I thought it started off well with his unqualified 'yes' answers but since then, he's been less than honest.


He's big-time dodging.


Very guarded in his words.

Fidgety fidgety.

Very little eye to eye contact: looking lower left, then upper right. Looking past her shoulders, it seems.


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## moskowe

Unfortunately I can't watch this where I am because my connection is too slow. Fortunately a combination of cyclingnews, nyvelocity, and theraceradio helps.

Tomahawk, statements like "I didn't dope in 2009 and 2010," "Ferrari is a good guy," and the whole "blame VdV" are false and disgusting. Some things never change I guess.


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## Old Man

yes,, one can believe some of what he is saying because he is confirming what is already known.. But there is still a hint of defiance, a bully, and a dodge to some of the questions that he does not want to answer... This is a less than honest approach really... Especially in a "no holds barred" interview.


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## cheddarlove

If you hate him, you will always hate him. Nothing he says will change your mind.


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## natedg200202

Same boat here. It is such a crock that he is claiming he was clean for his comeback. 

He is so prideful - trying to assert he only ever lost because he didn't dope.


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## sir duke

Tomahawk said:


> My opinion is that we have reason to doubt some of his answers, but simply dismissing them as false as some of you are is a joke. You don't know the first thing about what really goes on inside the minds of pro cyclists. You just read the news articles like the rest of us. Give it a break.


And you do? It's an internet forum, dude, that's why you're here. Give _me_ a break.


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## cda 455

cheddarlove said:


> If you hate him, you will always hate him. Nothing he says will change your mind.


Your point?


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## Tomahawk

Do you know for certain that he doped in 2009 or 2010, has anyone testified for that? If you paid attention to the issue you must know that the 'consistent with blood doping' claim was controversial amongst the experts.

Don't assume so recklessly, doubt yes - but everyone deserves a chance to be heard.

I don't know Ferrari and neither do you. Obviously he administered doping amongst athletes. Everyone has their own opinion on the 'even playing field' and what not, but he didn't kill anyone. He said it best when EPO isn't dangerous unless it's taken in huge excess.


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## Old Man

"winning was almost phoned in"... What the hell, a jerky thing to say, and in a way saying that drugs make you the best..


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## cda 455

Man; Very little eye contact.


Eyes are darting all over.


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## BassNBrew

What question did he dodged outside of implicating others?


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## natedg200202

He is spinning the "everyone was doing it" like mad. Read Tyler's book -
It was not a level playing field.


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## cda 455

Tomahawk said:


> Do you know for certain that he doped in 2009 or 2010, has anyone testified for that? If you paid attention to the issue you must know that the 'consistent with blood doping' claim was controversial amongst the experts.
> 
> Don't assume so recklessly, doubt yes - but everyone deserves a chance to be heard.
> 
> I don't know Ferrari and neither do you. Obviously he administered doping amongst athletes. Everyone has their own opinion on the 'even playing field' and what not, but he didn't kill anyone. He said it best when EPO isn't dangerous unless it's taken in huge excess.


Your point?


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## moskowe

Tomahawk PLEASE go back to the troll cave. 
Yes, we know for certain that he doped in 2009 and 2010. USADA knows it for certain too. 
And really, Ferrari ? He's been convicted in court, he's not allowed to ever be involved in cycling again, and he's most likely going to prison. 

Seriously dude, educate yourself.


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## Old Man

BassNBrew said:


> What question did he dodged outside of implicating others?


Either dope or you are out, for one.. there are several questions where he answered but did not really answer what O had asked. It is more of a topic dodge, than a specific question dodge..


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## Tomahawk

I like to deal in facts and not in hearsay and assumption. Yes I am a huge troll. *Sarcasm*
How immature are you guys? You're gonna have to do better than "no you're wrong". Give me substantiated evidence. 

It is wrong to assume what you don't know. Period.


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## Old Man

Still says he never failed a test,,, wow....


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## cda 455

Old Man said:


> Either dope or you are out, for one.. there are several questions where he answered but did not really answer what O had asked. It is more of a topic dodge, than a specific question dodge..


There's so much lawyer-coaching in his speech, it's ridiculous.


He's stuttering while shifting his sentence during mid-sentence.

This is crazy.


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## natedg200202

Why would the UCI ask Lance for a donation?

Can't wait to hear his answer about Betsy.


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## moskowe

Substantial evidence on Ferrari is all over the internet.
Evidence of 2009-2010 doping is in the USADA reasoned decision. You're the one making wrong assumptions.


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## robdamanii

UCI had no money and he was retired?

I don't recall him being retired when he donated to the UCI...


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## cda 455

Tomahawk said:


> I like to deal in facts and not in hearsay and assumption. Yes I am a huge troll. *Sarcasm*
> How immature are you guys? You're gonna have to do better than "no you're wrong". Give me substantiated evidence.
> 
> It is wrong to assume what you don't know. Period.


Quiet!


I'm watching Oprah :lol: !!1!


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## dnice

he admitted the truth of the emma oreilly charges, but denied tyler hamilton's charge that the uci covered up his positive test.


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## Old Man

Damn,,, O is making bank on all this commercial time....


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## cheddarlove

My point is, if you hate him and feel betrayed by him, nothing...absolutely NOTHING he ever says or does will ever get you to change your mind about him. He's done too much damage and can never be seen as truthful. By the way, I believe he's lying in some of his answers also. Maybe that's an interview for a few years from now.


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## cda 455

robdamanii said:


> UCI had no money and he was retired?
> 
> I don't recall him being retired when he donated to the UCI...


Me neither  .


And a quick check of the financial status of said years of UCI should clear up matters, eh?


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## L_Johnny

I was just checking the guide and saw that this is "part 1" 

I guess OWN is trying to make the most out of it....


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## BassNBrew

Did you ever lie when you were a kid and got caught? If so, we you were coming clean with your parents was the delivery smooth or were you embarrassed about your behave and stammered explaining the truth?


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## robdamanii

cda 455 said:


> Me neither  .
> 
> 
> And a quick check of the financial status of said years of UCI should clear up matters, eh?


And if they didn't have money, why didn't they just hold a bake sale?


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## DIRT BOY

natedg200202 said:


> He is spinning the "everyone was doing it" like mad. Read Tyler's book -
> It was not a level playing field.


And Tyler is perfect? Give me a Fricking break! He is a laid as well.


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## oily666

moskowe said:


> Tomahawk PLEASE go back to the troll cave.
> Yes, we know for certain that he doped in 2009 and 2010. USADA knows it for certain too.
> And really, Ferrari ? He's been convicted in court, he's not allowed to ever be involved in cycling again, and he's most likely going to prison.
> 
> Seriously dude, educate yourself.


I think he got lost on his way to YouTube.


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## moskowe

Well I certainly hate him, but not anymore than I did 5 years ago. I don't feel betrayed. He's obviously lying where he needs to and covering up his tracks to get as little legal exposure from this as possible. 

But regardless, I'm very happy that a lot of this is coming out publicly, for everyone to see, and not just us obsessed cyclists.


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## Old Man

Every commercial break is like the night before the next stage... O is currently in Yellow and Lance is isolated on this long climb to redemption...


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## cda 455

Now he's not answering a question.

Nice.


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## robdamanii

Why is he refusing to answer the question on Betsy?


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## Len J

Ironic how he only doped outside of the 7 year statute of limitations. Lol

Len


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## natedg200202

I kinda joked about Oprah doing this, but I gotta hand it to her - she is handling this well and putting hard questions to him. 

She is smart and seems quite informed, as she should be.


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## Old Man

Len J said:


> Ironic how he only doped outside of the 7 year statute of limitations. Lol
> 
> Len


Yeah,, inside his strange mind, he hears "don't admit, don't admit, lawsuits around the corner and you won't do well in prison".


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## L_Johnny

robdamanii said:


> Why is he refusing to answer the question on Betsy?


He denied this specific question under oath...


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## DrSmile

Not even a hint of contrition. What an utter douchebag. It's shocking how glib he is about ruining people's lives. He's coming across as a total sociopath!


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## tpgrole

No commercials on the web version. Weird, I thought they would want it's all to see the ads.


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## DIRT BOY

If you were Lance and after all be did, would you not have a hard time doing what he is doing? The fidgeting, lack on eye contact, etc?

The man is shake and distraught. Apologized to many people too.
Haters will hate an NEVER seen anything positive or truth out of this.


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## moskowe

Sworn testimony. Lawyers at work there.


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## robdamanii

L_Johnny said:


> He denied this specific question under oath...


SOL on perjury only 3 years. Or is it still pending?


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## robdamanii

DIRT BOY said:


> If you were Lance and after all be did, would you not have a hard time doing what he is doing? The fidgeting, lack on eye contact, etc?
> 
> The man is shake and distraught. Apologized to many people too.
> Haters will hate an NEVER seen anything positive or truth out of this.



Do you SERIOUSLY believe anything this loser is saying? Really?

Even Lance himself admits he's not "the most trustworthy guy" out there...


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## dnice

if you judge him on his behavior in this interview then you may have well judged him on his behavior in previous interviews when he convincingly stated that he didn't dope. body language is not everything. 

i think there are some real truths being told and in other ways he is evasive. but still useful tv viewing.


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## Old Man

So,, the web version must be over by now,,, damn,,, this 2 hrs is really only about 20 min of interview...


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## Old Man

dnice,, I just don't feel that he is being entirely forthcoming... Body language, words, tone....


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## tpgrole

Nope, still dead space, just no commercials.


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## robdamanii

dnice said:


> if you judge him on his behavior in this interview then you may have well judged him on his behavior in previous interviews when he convincingly stated that he didn't dope. body language is not everything.
> 
> i think there are some real truths being told and in other ways he is evasive. but still useful tv viewing.


I've not believed him for some time, so asking me to believe him now is a stretch...


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## texasnewb

He refused to answer the question about Betsy andreu, but said he had a 40-minute talk with her...I wonder if he paid her off to let him slide on her part of it? Guess we'll know by her reaction tmw.


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## robdamanii

texasnewb said:


> He refused to answer the question about Betsy andreu, but said he had a 40-minute talk with her...I wonder if he paid her off to let him slide on her part of it? Guess we'll know by her reaction tmw.


She's probably smashing TVs in Anderson Cooper's studio...


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## moskowe

Lol dude do you know Betsy Andreu ? Have you heard her talk about Armstrong ? There is 0 chance, scratch that, there is a negative probability (lol) that she lets it slide. The universe will collapse before she lets anything about LA slide.


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## Old Man

Wow,,, not much heavy hitting from O... This really was a waste of time after the first few "yeses" from Lance....


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## Old Man

Betsy is livid on AC 360


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## robdamanii

Old Man said:


> Betsy is livid on AC 360


She looks like she wants to reach through the screen and rip off his other nut.


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## dnice

in summation: imperfect in many ways. oprah missed some important contradictions and allowed him some outs that mike wallace certainly wouldn't have. that being said, it was worthwhile investment of time. to actually see the words come out of his mouth: "i cheated, i doped from the mid 90s through my final tour" was huge.


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## tpgrole

This thread reminds me of Howard Sterns early days, when the listeners that hated him out numbered the ones who actually liked him!


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## Old Man

There is some legal **** that is gonna come down soon... All parties now are being protective over the language they are using...


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## burgrat

I think Betsy is scaring Anderson Cooper! A scorned woman indeed! (Betsy, not Anderson)


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## L_Johnny

dnice said:


> in summation: imperfect in many ways. oprah missed some important contradictions and allowed him some outs that mike wallace certainly wouldn't have. that being said, it was worthwhile investment of time. to actually see the words come out of his mouth: *"i cheated, i* doped from the mid 90s through my final tour" was huge.


NO, no, he said that he feels he didn't cheat. That is the irritating part...


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## mtnroadie

What a major douche weasel! That is one gargantuan ego he has to battle on a daily basis.


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## Solopc

Betsy is the best TV of the night! Love her!


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## BoomerB

I thought the answers were pretty good. Don't think Oprah was very good though.

Not sure why he dodged the hospital question. Don't know enough a bough the situation.


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## dnice

L_Johnny said:


> NO, no, he said that he feels he didn't cheat. That is the irritating part...


good catch. and a fair point.


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## mrcreosote

FWIW - 'live commentary' from local sports writers

Live Coverage: Lance Armstrong Speaks To Oprah Winfrey


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## texasnewb

burgrat said:


> I think Betsy is scaring Anderson Cooper! A scorned woman indeed! (Betsy, not Anderson)


I don't get why he refused to address the questions about her/the hospital...seems to be established the statute of limitations has passed for those issues, so why address Emma Oreilly and apologize but not Betsy?


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## sir duke

Tomahawk said:


> I like to deal in facts and not in hearsay and assumption. Yes I am a huge troll. *Sarcasm*
> How immature are you guys? You're gonna have to do better than "no you're wrong". Give me substantiated evidence.
> 
> It is wrong to assume what you don't know. Period.


Dealing in facts has earned you a whole lot of positive feedback judging by your rep. Right now I like my credibility. I think your posting history on this forum demonstrates that you wouldn't know a fact if it stood up in your soup. Lance has admitted some of the facts, so why are you still in denial?


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## pedalruns

Dang.. I missed Betsy!! I'm going to go look for clips. 

I thought Oprah did a pretty good job for not knowing the sport that well... 

Several things that stick out... 

He didn't dope at all in his comeback.. Big FAT Lie..

He doesn't know how many people he sued.. he sued so many, LOL

He makes a strong point to say he didn't call Betsy fat, but admits to calling her every other name and doesn't exactly admit the hospital room incident. 

And... He became a bully because of cancer.. 

Also... when did he make that donation to UCI??


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## cda 455

Old Man said:


> So,, the web version must be over by now,,, damn,,, this 2 hrs is really only about 20 min of interview...


Part two is tomorrow.


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## DrSmile

Is motoman Philippe Maire still going to deny it was him after Lance pretty much confirmed it tonight?


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## mpre53

pedalruns said:


> Dang.. I missed Betsy!! I'm going to go look for clips.


I'm sure that she'll have some crowd-pleasers on her Facebook page over the next few days. :lol:

To date, her best line there was when she referred to him as "cancer Jesus".


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## carbonLORD

You think he was saving the good stuff for Opera? No, he is saving that for *his* sweetheart deal.


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## burgrat

He stated that if he had not done "the comeback", that they would not be talking tonight. She later asked him if he regretted the comeback and he said yes. 

That right there shows he is not sorry for his actions, but simply sorry that he got caught.


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## cda 455

mpre53 said:


> I'm sure that she'll have some crowd-pleasers on her Facebook page over the next few days. :lol:
> 
> To date, her best line there was when she referred to him as_* "cancer Jesus"*_.


:lol:


No way!


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## pedalruns

There are 498 people viewing the doping forum... and 220 viewing this thread, wow..


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## cda 455

burgrat said:


> He stated that if he had not done "the comeback", that they would not be talking tonight. She later asked him if he regretted the comeback and he said yes.
> 
> That right there shows he is not sorry for his actions, but simply sorry that he got caught.


Good point.


I hope a body language analysis is done on him. 

Pharmstrong's constant fidgeting and shifting eyes sure made him look like a meth-head :lol: !


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## trailrunner68

texasnewb said:


> I don't get why he refused to address the questions about her/the hospital...seems to be established the statute of limitations has passed for those issues, so why address Emma Oreilly and apologize but not Betsy?


He had people lie for him under oath about the hospital room. Big legal can of worms there.


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## cda 455

trailrunner68 said:


> He had people lie for him under oath about the hospital room. Big legal can of worms there.


Interesting.


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## wagg

My girlfriend just called and asked me what I was up to. I had to tell her I'm watching Oprah. God I hate Lance Armstrong.


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## Borti

wagg said:


> My girlfriend just called and asked me what I was up to. I had to tell her I'm watching Oprah. God I hate Lance Armstrong.


Lol he's invented new ways for people to hate him.


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## Local Hero

wagg said:


> My girlfriend just called and asked me what I was up to. I had to tell her I'm watching Oprah. God I hate Lance Armstrong.


You should have used one of Armstrong's dodgy non answers.


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## DrSmile

pedalruns said:


> Dang.. I missed Betsy!! I'm going to go look for clips.


Her response is on the 360 website:

Anderson Cooper 360 - CNN.com Blogs


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## Fogdweller

They're streaming it on the Oprah network live if you don't have cable. That's where I watched tonight.


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## SystemShock

Tomahawk said:


> Do you know for certain that he doped in 2009 or 2010, has anyone testified for that? If you paid attention to the issue you must know that the 'consistent with blood doping' claim was controversial amongst the experts.


Oh, for the love of Christ. Some ppl never learn, I guess.


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## Dwayne Barry

JasonB176 said:


> Go to oprah.com - that's how I'm watching it. I can't believe that he's claiming he didn't dope at all in 2009 and 2010!


I've not watched it yet, but read that on the news.

I'm not buying it. Weren't his blood values all over the place?

And triathlon, didn't he make remarkable gains after some fairly mediocre results, for him, initially?


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## Bevo

Overall I think this was a good interview more so for the public than the racing fans. We know more of the details and the players in the events and how the sport is really done beyond the headlines.

The public now knows beyond a doubt that he is a liar.
The racing world has now had it confirmed what we all knew, the details are sketchy and we may never know everything but we can now say without a doubt that anything he says is not true. If you come clean then do it 100%.

The next few years will be interesting, best case for him is bankruptcy, worse case is jail time for purgery, slander and liable.


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## JohnnyTooBad

I'm not a hater or a fanboi, and I sort of liked the interview. I would have been more suspicious if he wasn't fidgity. I get the impression that he was fairly truthful, however, I also think that his mentality is that he is opening up and being honest about the fist big questions, therefore then general (non-cycling, and specifically, his LiveStrong fans)public will be ready to believe whatever he says. Therefore, he can deny things like 2009-10 and other things that are still within the SOL and people will side with him.

Honestly, I don't think he's trying to win back any cycling fans. He's knows that's a lost cause. I think he's more worried about LiveStrong, and thinks he can keep those contributors if they think he's now on the right path.


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## LostViking

Not impressed with Part One - he merely confirmed what was already out there. If Oprah had done her research as she claimed, she should have asked some obvious follow-up questions - she didn't. His failure to implicate others reveals that he is not trying to help clean up the sport - just garnish sympathy.

He claimed he would cooperate with a Truth and Reconcilliation process. I suspect that is why he is not naming names - he wants to make sure there is an amnesty before coming totally clean.

Lance is still playing with people's heads.

I supsect Part Two will be more of the same.


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## godot

Am I missing something here? or mis-remembering?

At one point Lance said something like "I couldn't have won the tour without doping"

Fast forward to 2009 - LA returns and Astana declares that AC and LA are co-captains and the team leader will be sorted out on the road. 

Wouldn't this mean that Lance was there to win the Tour? and since he can't win the tour without doping........ 

perhaps the better answer would have been, "the best you can do without doping is finish third"

I need coffee


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## burgrat

I really want to see a truly remorseful Armstrong, but I think he failed miserably in part 1 of this interview.

He is obviously dodging the full truth by not addressing the "hospital room" incident with the Andreau's. (It appears that that Oakley lady perjured herself defending him in that case. Perhaps the doctor(s) as well?). So much for a "no holds barred" interview.
His attempt at humor about calling Betsy A. fat went over like a lead balloon, especially with the Oprah!
He stated that his "donation" to the UCI was when he was retired (ie 2005+), but it occurred several years earlier.
He mentioned twice how he did not like the UCI, but gave them over $100k simply because they asked?! WTF?
He stated that he didn't dope in 2009-2010 ("absolutely not"). Bullsh*t! There is VERY STRONG evidence based on the biological passport that he did. So he feels that someone could not win the Tour clean during that era, but he can come back after 3 years off, at 39 years old, and finish on the podium?! Right...
He could not remember if he sued Emma O'Reilly?
He says he will try to personally apologize to the people he attacked. Why not acknowledge these people (LeMond, Frankie, Betsy, Mike Anderson, Bassons, Simeoni, Kimmage, etc.) publicly since he bad-mouthed them publicly?
We'll see how part 2 goes, but I don't think this interview is helping him at all. Like one journalist said on CNN last night, he didn't think he could dislike Lance more until he saw the interview.
If you are going to confess and apologize like this, it has to be all or nothing. I think he missed that opportunity last night.


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## Fireform

All very good points. I noticed the discrepancy in the timing of his bribe to UCI also--maybe he was referring to a different bribe. 

And he looked uncomfortable, not remorseful. The defame in public/apologize in private business bespeaks ego, not contrition.


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## Henry Porter

It was typical Lance. I enjoyed the first part for watching him try to play us all over again. He blew it for the reasons already mentioned.


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## LostViking

cheddarlove said:


> If you hate him, you will always hate him. Nothing he says will change your mind.


What is he says: "It was all a lie." as he did?


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## LostViking

robdamanii said:


> And if they didn't have money, why didn't they just hold a bake sale?


Awesomeness!!!


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## LostViking

dnice said:


> he admitted the truth of the emma oreilly charges, but denied tyler hamilton's charge that the uci covered up his positive test.


ie. He is still lying to all of us.


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## LostViking

sir duke said:


> Dealing in facts has earned you a whole lot of positive feedback judging by your rep. Right now I like my credibility. I think your posting history on this forum demonstrates that you wouldn't know a fact if it stood up in your soup. Lance has admitted some of the facts, so why are you still in denial?


Here, here!


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## LostViking

DIRT BOY said:


> And Tyler is perfect? Give me a Fricking break! He is a laid as well.


Everything Tyler has said has since been proven either 100% on point or damn near it.
In contrast, everthing Lance has said has proven to be a lie.
I like Tyler's credibility over Lance's.


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## LostViking

DrSmile said:


> Is motoman Philippe Maire still going to deny it was him after Lance pretty much confirmed it tonight?


That's another thing - Oprah mentioned "Motoman" but did not explain that to her viewers - if you hadn't read "The Secret Race" I'm sure such references would go right over your head. Probably why Lance quickly agreed - to aviod her explaining or elaborating her question. Several such references during the course of the interview.


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## LostViking

wagg said:


> My girlfriend just called and asked me what I was up to. I had to tell her I'm watching Oprah. God I hate Lance Armstrong.


+1 - Too funny!


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## Dwayne Barry

LostViking said:


> Everything Tyler has said has since been proven either 100% on point or damn near it.
> In contrast, everthing Lance has said has proven to be a lie.
> I like Tyler's credibility over Lance's.


It's worth pointing out that both of them may be correct as to the test. Armstrong could have told Hamilton there was a positive and yet there may not have been one.

The interesting bit seems to be whether he is denying the meeting ever took place with the Swiss lab, which I think he did.


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## bruce_wayne

*Lancegate*

I don't spend a lot of time in the doping forum so i'm sure it's been said before but for the first time it's struck me that LA's scandal reached Watergate proportions. Not to equate a pro cyclist with a US prez, but he was probly the most powerful person in cycling, the coverup and lies were pervasive and far reaching, people were intimidated, careers were ruined, and reputations were damaged beyond repair. Plus, the public's confidence in the sport has to be at an all-time low.

I read most of the USADA report and found Oprah's show to be kinda boring. Much like Nixon, this guy became pathological in his efforts to cover up his cheating and this went on for years. What does anyone expect him to say in an interview? "I am not a crook." "You won't have Lance Armstrong to kick around anymore." Maybe some journalist types would like to see LA break down and drown in a puddle of tears but I don't see him as that kind of person. People who calculate and plot don't normally get real emotional (unless it's to their advantage).
But I could be wrong. There's still Pt. 2 :wink:


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## thalo

pittsey said:


> I love how at the start of the interview he was playing the pity card saying how hard it was for him to live his life


----------



## EuroSVT

I'm sorry if I get the verbatim quote wrong, but she had asked what changed. His response was something along the lines of the introduction of the bio-passport program, and said something about it being very effective. Almost in the same breath he stated that when USADA claimed his 2009 bio-passport results indicated blood manipulation, it was wrong.

That and Oprah really should have made the Betsy Andreu - hospital question a yes or no one. Just lost any chance at sincerity when he dodged that question, on what was being billed as a no holds barred interview.


----------



## thalo

robdamanii said:


> And if they didn't have money, why didn't they just hold a bake sale?


with EPO brownies.


----------



## cda 455

Len J said:


> Ironic how he only doped outside of the 7 year statute of limitations. Lol
> 
> Len


:lol:


Good catch!

He even repeated/clarified that statement to Oprah, "I stopped, after the 2005 TDF/season."


It's so ironic; He lies during his interview of confessing to lying :shocked: .


----------



## BoomerB

cda 455 said:


> :lol:
> 
> 
> Good catch!
> 
> He even repeated/clarified that statement to Oprah, "I stopped, after the 2005 TDF/season."
> 
> 
> It's so ironic; He lies during his interview of confessing to lying :shocked: .



Well he would have to be an idiot to incriminate himself.


----------



## cda 455

BoomerB said:


> Well he would have to be an idiot to incriminate himself.



How would that change his current disposition  ???


----------



## BoomerB

cda 455 said:


> How would that change his current disposition  ???


What does disposition have to do with it? I am guessing the sol is 7 years which is why he isn't admitting to that.

The whole Lance thing is a moving target anyways. First people say they just want him to admit guilt. He admits guilt and now people don't like the way he did it.


----------



## SystemShock

BoomerB said:


> What does disposition have to do with it? I am guessing the sol is 7 years which is why he isn't admitting to that.
> 
> The whole Lance thing is a moving target anyways. First people say they just want him to admit guilt. He admits guilt and now people don't like the way he did it.


They don't like it because he's still lying, shuckin' and jiving while he's doing it, i.e. not much has changed. Lance is still trying to play us.

Either come clean, or don't. Lance is half-assing it, at best.


----------



## SystemShock

BoomerB said:


> Well he would have to be an idiot to incriminate himself.





cda said:


> How would that change his current disposition??


BOOM! :lol:


----------



## cda 455

SystemShock said:


> BOOM! :lol:


You get it!



Boomer didn't  .


----------



## BoomerB

SystemShock said:


> They don't like it because he's still lying, shuckin' and jiving while he's doing it, i.e. not much has changed. Lance is still trying to play us.
> 
> Either come clean, or don't. Lance is half-assing it, at best.


Well if people thought someone with those personality traits would come totally clean they are pretty naive.

He said he doped and doped during all tour wins. That is enough for me. 

He has said enough to where he will probably get his a$$ handed to him in civil court.


----------



## cda 455

BoomerB said:


> What does disposition have to do with it? I am guessing the sol is 7 years which is why he isn't admitting to that.
> 
> The whole Lance thing is a moving target anyways. First people say they just want him to admit guilt. He admits guilt and now people don't like the way he did it.



Um. You didn't get it; did you?


----------



## BoomerB

cda 455 said:


> Um. You didn't get it; did you?


Guess not. Please explain.


----------



## cda 455

BoomerB said:


> Well if people thought someone with those personality traits would come totally clean they are pretty naive.
> 
> He said he doped and doped during all tour wins. That is enough for me.
> 
> He has said enough to where he will probably get his a$$ handed to him in civil court.


Um. You still don't get, do you?


Pharmstrong and Oprah advertised that it was going to be a tell-all/everything on the table/no-holds barred interview confession.

What we got was a complete lawyerized/diluted/lying, and at best: minimal confession. 

He is still looking out for himself hoping that he can still get away with something. 


Greg LeMond said it best, "He (LA) has no conscience." The person that Oprah interviewed was a person with absolutely no conscience.


----------



## Fogdweller

Dwayne Barry said:


> I've not watched it yet, but read that on the news.
> 
> I'm not buying it. Weren't his blood values all over the place?


To the contrary, they were stable the entire 2009 tour which raised Ashenden's eyebrows. A clean rider will exit a tour with vastly depleted numbers and Armstrong's could only have held its profile with manipulation.


----------



## BoomerB

cda 455 said:


> Um. You still don't get, do you?
> 
> 
> Pharmstrong and Oprah advertised that it was going to be a tell-all/everything on the table/no-holds barred interview confession.
> 
> What we got was a complete lawyerized/diluted/lying, and at best: minimal confession.
> 
> He is still looking out for himself hoping that he can still get away with something.
> 
> Greg LeMond said it best, "He (LA) has no conscience." The person that Oprah interviewed was a person with absolutely no conscience.


Ok...I see what you are saying but it would be stupid to further incriminate yourself.

I am not aware if he billed it as a tell all. Don't follow it that close but of course Oprah would. They had an 1100% increase in viewers last night.

He did hold some things back but to protect himself and to not incriminate others. I am sure his sole motive though is to protect himself. He is a narcissist . 

I guess we just disagree in what a confession is. I view confession as admission. Details don't really mattered me.

I think we both agree though that he has some horrible traits and doesn't seem to have changed.


----------



## cda 455

Len J said:


> Ironic how he only doped outside of the 7 year statute of limitations. Lol
> 
> Len


And so the media and investigators saw that too:




> Lance Armstrong may have lied to Oprah Winfrey during his so-called confession Thursday night about his doping during the Tour de France bicycle race, investigators told ABC News today.
> 
> Armstrong, 41, admitted for the first time that his decade-long dominance of cycling and seven wins in the Tour de France were owed, in part, to performance-enhancing drugs and oxygen-boosting blood transfusions. He told Winfrey that he was taking the opportunity to confess to everything he had done wrong, including angrily denying reports for years claiming that he had doped.
> 
> Investigators familiar with Armstrong's case, however, said today that Armstrong didn't completely come clean. They say he blatantly lied about when he stopped doping, saying the last time he used the drugs and transfusions was the 2005 race.



Lance Armstrong May Have Lied to Oprah to Cover Crimes: Investigators - ABC News


----------



## Len J

cda 455 said:


> And so the media and investigators saw that too:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lance Armstrong May Have Lied to Oprah to Cover Crimes: Investigators - ABC News


I'm shocked I tell you shocked!

Len


----------



## cda 455

Part II is about to start.


Let's see how long he can go before he starts lying again.


----------



## cda 455

Wow; The 'You're a jerk' comment came up again!


----------



## OldEndicottHiway

Len J said:


> I'm shocked I tell you shocked!
> 
> Len



Len, remember back in '09 Tour when we had our discussions in pro cycling forum? 

I guess my naive, foolish-self, is learning yet another lesson. At that time, I had hopes he saved the scheming, ruthless, d*ck-behavior _course par etapes._ 

I've had the news on in the background today. It's been all-day, Lance-Oprah interview analyses. I'm surprised it made the news to the extent it has.

He, like the best swindlers, jackasses, and sociopaths in history, began with defects at a young age; and perhaps even from birth. He _chose_ to play that defect to his advantage. Why? Because it works. The guy can't connect with himself let alone other people, unless it's to play them if there's something in it for him. 

I've known one person like this in my life, personally. There _is_ no getting through. 

Lance is still playing _people_, and himself, and he doesn't even know it. 

Edit to add: if Lance wants to win the toughest battle on earth (and we're not talking about Le Tour), it will be the battle to reconstruct the foundation of his mind and soul.


----------



## cda 455

He just lied again.


----------



## Old Man

He said he was owed the chance to compete again.... Arrogance to the inth


----------



## cda 455

Old Man said:


> He said he was owed the chance to compete again.... Arrogance to the inth


Yeah; The lie I mentioned he said was why he was doing this (Interview), "I'm not doing it so I can compete again."


He also complained that his ban was, "different (Not like the other cyclists.)."


----------



## Len J

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Len, remember back in '09 Tour when we had our discussions in pro cycling forum?
> 
> I guess my naive, foolish-self, is learning yet another lesson. At that time, I had hopes he saved the scheming, ruthless, d*ck-behavior _course par etapes._
> 
> I've had the news on in the background today. It's been all-day, Lance-Oprah interview analyses. I'm surprised it made the news to the extent it has
> 
> He, like the best swindlers, jackasses, and sociopaths in history, began with defects at a young age; and perhaps even from birth. He _chose_ to play that defect to his advantage. Why? Because it works. The guy can't connect with himself let alone other people, unless it's to play them if there's something in it for him.
> 
> I've known one person like this in my life, personally. There _is_ no getting through.
> 
> Lance is still playing _people_, and himself, and he doesn't even know it.


Bingo. 

Len


----------



## cda 455

Oops; LA's ex-wife will probably be subpenaed now!


----------



## cda 455

I think he's lying again.


He's talking about his comeback.


----------



## cda 455

Crocodile tears??

Talking about his son.


----------



## CAD10

Watching this makes me wanna fill my tv full of 9mm sized holes...he is such an ass.


----------



## robdamanii

CAD10 said:


> Watching this makes me wanna fill my tv full of 9mm sized holes...he is such an ass.


Don't waste the ammo.


----------



## oily666

robdamanii said:


> Don't waste the ammo.


A great statment to end with.


----------



## My Own Private Idaho

He almost managed a few teas, but couldn't quite get them out.


----------



## DIRT BOY

LostViking said:


> Everything Tyler has said has since been proven either 100% on point or damn near it.
> In contrast, everthing Lance has said has proven to be a lie.
> I like Tyler's credibility over Lance's.


Like his twin crap and others? Please...


----------



## cda 455

DIRT BOY said:


> Like his twin crap and others? Please...


Twin crap?

Like a double dump?


----------



## orbit

OldEndicottHiway said:


> I've known one person like this in my life, personally. There _is_ no getting through.
> 
> Lance is still playing _people_, and himself, and he doesn't even know it.
> 
> Edit to add: if Lance wants to win the toughest battle on earth (and we're not talking about Le Tour), it will be the battle to reconstruct the foundation of his mind and soul.


Agree with your entire post OEH.

And I feel so incredibly sad for the people he bullied and aimed to destroy - as Betsy said, how do you compensate for lost opportunities? 

In this part 2, Lance asked the question as to why he received a lifetime ban when other doping athletes received only a 6 month suspension. He still doesn't get it. He still feels its a witch hunt. He still feels he's special and invincible.

And he's still trying to control the outcome… towards the end of the interview, he said he was still hoping for a comeback to competition. 

He has a long way to go.


----------



## cda 455

orbit said:


> Agree with your entire post OEH.
> 
> And I feel so incredibly sad for the people he bullied and aimed to destroy - as Betsy said, how do you compensate for lost opportunities?
> 
> In this part 2, Lance asked the question as to why he received a lifetime ban when other doping athletes received only a 6 month suspension. He still doesn't get it. He still feels its a witch hunt. He still feels he's special and invincible.
> 
> And he's still trying to control the outcome… towards the end of the interview, he said he was still hoping for a comeback to competition.
> 
> He has a long way to go.


Yeah, he whined and called his ban 'different' (Than the other riders).


And you are correct; He still doesn't get it (Because he's focusing on himself).


----------



## Bluenote

orbit said:


> Agree with your entire post OEH.
> 
> And I feel so incredibly sad for the people he bullied and aimed to destroy - as Betsy said, how do you compensate for lost opportunities?
> 
> In this part 2, Lance asked the question as to why he received a lifetime ban when other doping athletes received only a 6 month suspension. He still doesn't get it. He still feels its a witch hunt. He still feels he's special and invincible.
> 
> And he's still trying to control the outcome… towards the end of the interview, he said he was still hoping for a comeback to competition.
> 
> He has a long way to go.


For a guy who's supposed to be so smart, he said some stupid stuff. See, the other guys confessed, told everything, so they got reduced sentences. 

Lance, you doped like a fiend, denied like crazy, lied and attacked the USADA. Maybe, maybe, that's why you got ban hammered.


----------



## pedalruns

And he continued the LIE of he stopped doping in 2005... And he believes he deserves to compete again. 

The only thing he is really sorry about is he was caught and can't do his TRI's. 

Very sad.


----------



## cda 455

pedalruns said:


> And he continued the LIE of he stopped doping in 2005... And he believes he deserves to compete again.
> 
> The only thing he is really sorry about is he was caught and can't do his TRI's.
> 
> Very sad.


During that part of the interview there were really two Lances there. One was 'rehearsed by lawyers' Lance and one was the true Lance. When he let slip that he thought he shouldn't have got the life ban, that was the true him. When he said things like, "I deserve it." (Regarding people being mad/angry at him) that's the 'rehearsed by lawyers' Lance.

He was definitely contradicting himself during that part of the interview.


----------



## SystemShock

Watching the interview, and it's uncomfortable in parts... like you're getting a window into the mind of a sociopath.


----------



## mpre53

robdamanii said:


> Don't waste the ammo.


I didn't even waste the electricity.


----------



## SFTifoso

I think he's a psychopath, honestly. It would be interesting to see psychologists and body language experts review his interview.


----------



## robdamanii

SFTifoso said:


> I think he's a psychopath, honestly. It would be interesting to see psychologists and body language experts review his interview.


Video: Lance Armstrong's interview with Oprah Winfrey analysed by body language expert - Telegraph

Body Language Analysis of Lance Armstrong


----------



## Dwayne Barry

Fogdweller said:


> To the contrary, they were stable the entire 2009 tour which raised Ashenden's eyebrows. A clean rider will exit a tour with vastly depleted numbers and Armstrong's could only have held its profile with manipulation.


I didn't mean literally all over the place. I meant all over the place as in not being where they should have been.


----------



## burgrat

He certainly lied about 2009-2010 and coming back clean. I honestly want the guy to own up and realize the people he's damaged, but it's clear he's not even close to that. I think the "experts" will pick apart his answers and it will be shown that he ultimately lied to Oprah. (You don't lie to the Oprah!) 
Didn't he say that he never met with the lab guy in Switzerland, yet that has been confirmed by everyone including the lab?
I honestly think he can't even keep the story straight any more, especially as he cherry-picks the lies he is admitting to. He's saying what he thinks is enough to earn some redemption while still maintaining the omerta, etc.
I hope he is truly getting psych help.


----------



## Bluenote

There's lots of analysis about the interview, but here's one more. 

A carefully crafted package of words - ESPN


----------



## cda 455

Bluenote said:


> There's lots of analysis about the interview, but here's one more.
> 
> A carefully crafted package of words - ESPN


Wow; I just finished reading the article.


According to said article not only did Pharmstrong say little, apparently he even adding or volunteered statements during the interview so as to use said statements at a later date when he's dealing with law suits etc.

According to the article, practically every aspect of the interview was coached/rehearsed/ practiced by Pharmstrong. There was no on-the-fly answers. Everything that Pharmstrong said was carefully worded with key words.


Pharmstrong hasn't changed one bit.


----------



## SFTifoso

robdamanii said:


> Video: Lance Armstrong's interview with Oprah Winfrey analysed by body language expert - Telegraph
> 
> Body Language Analysis of Lance Armstrong


Thanks. Very interesting. Has he ever had a bad fall from the bike early in his career? Brain damage might explain his psychopath-like behavior.


----------



## cda 455

SFTifoso said:


> Thanks. Very interesting. Has he ever had a bad fall from the bike early in his career? Brain damage might explain his psychopath-like behavior.



I believe he had brain surgery to remove two tumors.


----------



## DrSmile

SFTifoso said:


> Thanks. Very interesting. Has he ever had a bad fall from the bike early in his career? Brain damage might explain his psychopath-like behavior.


Bad fall? No. Ball fall? YES!


----------



## AJL

SFTifoso said:


> Thanks. Very interesting. Has he ever had a bad fall from the bike early in his career? Brain damage might explain his psychopath-like behavior.


He did slam into a concrete retaining wall descending from a climb in training some years back. I think a couple of doctors were having lunch nearby and they ran over to help, thinking he was probably dead (unless that was a lie as well).


----------



## AJL

cda 455 said:


> Wow; I just finished reading the article.
> 
> 
> According to said article not only did Pharmstrong say little, apparently he even adding or volunteered statements during the interview so as to use said statements at a later date when he's dealing with law suits etc.
> 
> According to the article, practically every aspect of the interview was coached/rehearsed/ practiced by Pharmstrong. There was no on-the-fly answers. Everything that Pharmstrong said was carefully worded with key words.
> 
> 
> Pharmstrong hasn't changed one bit.


I just read it too, and also saw the interviews. The part that is just to much for me is how he brings his ex-wife and kids into his sorted tale - just to try and prove to us that he's just a responsible family man like the rest of us. The fact is, the only genuine emotion he could conjure up was due to his relationship with his kids.

To me, Lance is probably mentally ill. He likely suffers from narcissism and is a pathological liar. I have know idea how,or even if those neurotic behaviors can be cured. I knew someone who suffered from the same personality disorders, he refused treatment and it cost him his marriage and his business. LA seriously needs help. May God have mercy on this poor soul


----------



## Bluenote

cda 455 said:


> I believe he had brain surgery to remove two tumors.


He admitted to Oprah that he wasn't a very good guy prior to getting cancer. He claims the cancer changed him for the better, but he lost his way again. 

It doesn't seem like some type of brain damage would be transient - somehow getting better post cancer or worse with fame.


----------



## cda 455

Bluenote said:


> He admitted to Oprah that he wasn't a very good guy prior to getting cancer. He claims the cancer changed him for the better, but he lost his way again.
> 
> It doesn't seem like some type of brain damage would be transient - somehow getting better post cancer or worse with fame.


Interesting.


Here's Paul Kimmage's summary of his article that confirms your first point:



> In the _*autumn of 1993*_, Greg LeMond and his wife, Kathy, were sitting at home in the suburbs of Minneapolis, when they received a visit from Linda Mooneyham, the three-times Tour de France winner has recalled. Her 21-year-old son, Lance Armstrong, had just become the world champion and she had travelled from her home in Texas for advice.
> 
> "What does he do now?" she asked. "What does he do with his money?"
> 
> "Well, let him find an agent – a good one with an attorney," LeMond replied. "And one word of advice – just be his mom."
> 
> *They sat on the porch for a while and then moved inside to the kitchen. Linda had something else on her mind: "How do I make him less of an azzhole. He doesn't care about anyone."*
> 
> "Well," LeMond replied. "I can't help you there."


A convincing 39 seconds, then back to the old Lance Armstrong | Paul Kimmage | Sport | The Observer


----------



## spade2you

After Lance and Dogeball, I'm more upset that Pirate Steve really wasn't a pirate at all. LIES LIES LIES!!!!!!!!!


----------



## rufus

Who's Pirate Steve?


----------



## Tomahawk

Unseen Outtake from Oprah Interview - worth a look guys.


----------



## burgrat

Tomahawk said:


> Unseen Outtake from Oprah Interview - worth a look guys.


Funny!!!


----------



## spade2you

rufus said:


> Who's Pirate Steve?


----------



## Henry Porter

Creep.


----------



## Bluenote

Henry Porter said:


> Creep.


Funny.


----------



## rufus

Who has the time or the insane genius to put something like that together?


----------



## burgrat

Tygart on 60 Minutes (CBS) tonight, Sunday Jan 27.

I'm watching right now. Tygart explaining that Lance lied in the Oprah interview. Interesting...


----------



## Fireform

burgrat said:


> Tygart on 60 Minutes (CBS) tonight, Sunday Jan 27.
> 
> I'm watching right now. Tygart explaining that Lance lied in the Oprah interview. Interesting...


http://youtu.be/LGXhoK_XQAc


----------



## DrSmile

Fireform said:


> USADA Tygart 60 Minutes Interview After LA Confesses - YouTube


Great response by Tygart. He expertly explains all the lies Armstrong told in the interview. I hope he and USADA somehow can get money out of the whistleblower suit.

Also he takes a nice stab at the douchebag representatives (like the sack of s&it Jim Sensenbrenner from Wisconsin) who were trying to shut down USADA.

Daniel Bice - Sensenbrenner puts brakes on defense of Lance Armstrong


----------

