# Vuelta



## proclaimer888

Just saw stage routes for the Vuelta and noticed one stage ends in Rota!! Spent 3 wonderful years there and some fond memories. Andalusia is amazing and cant wait to see the peloton riding through this area. Hopefully the race is televised here in US.


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## 4Crawler

Seemed like a rather lame first stage with the TTT. Only caught part of it but it on Eurosport but it looked like they were doing the stage on a bike path, very narrow and tight corners. So much so that the stage was neutralized and all riders got the same time.


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## BacDoc

4Crawler said:


> Seemed like a rather lame first stage with the TTT. Only caught part of it but it on Eurosport but it looked like they were doing the stage on a bike path, very narrow and tight corners. So much so that the stage was neutralized and all riders got the same time.


I'm disappointed.

Even if it was tight and sketchy, these guys are pros, they should have the bike handling skills to handle the route. Just like any other part of the course, ride at your skill level. Winning should have risk to get the reward and makes it more exciting for spectators.

I thought the venue was absolutely beautiful! Was the start at Mundaka?


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## Marc

4Crawler said:


> Seemed like a rather lame first stage with the TTT. Only caught part of it but it on Eurosport but it looked like they were doing the stage on a bike path, very narrow and tight corners. So much so that the stage was neutralized and all riders got the same time.


The racers, and i use the term somewhat jokingly today, whined at the last second and the organizers gave in.


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## coldash

The course was a joke. Seven different surface types including rubber, sand, gravel, wood, cement bricks etc. The narrow bits were getting narrower as the crowds pushed the barriers into the course. The course rutted up for the later starters and the only thing the organisers missed was that they could have put a 6 foot gap in the middle of the wood pedestrian bridge to give the riders a "make it or break it" challenge. Next year, maybe they'll use a crazy golf course. The riders and Vuelta deserve better.


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## Marc

coldash said:


> The course was a joke...The riders and Vuelta deserve better.


"A joke" as in it is real life.

The viewers and sponsors deserve better than a bunch of cry babies who never race and only want perfect roads with sunny skies and 20C temps....and only want to actually race and compete in the last 20km of every stage. Then they act surprised as sponsors are pulling out and paychecks are crap, as though they have no idea why. They are either acting surprised or they are too damned stupid to live.

If people wanted to watch NASCAR they'd watch NASCAR.


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## coldash

Marc said:


> "A joke" as in it is real life.
> 
> The viewers and sponsors deserve better than a bunch of cry babies who never race and only want perfect roads with sunny skies and 20C temps....and only want to actually race and compete in the last 20km of every stage. Then they act surprised as sponsors are pulling out and paychecks are crap, as though they have no idea why. They are either acting surprised or they are too damned stupid to live.
> 
> If people wanted to watch NASCAR they'd watch NASCAR.


Maybe they could have added some cauldrons of boiling oil, pop-up road bollards and hoops of fire for them to ride thru at the same time as the gravel, sand and rubber tiles. The viewers and sponsors deserve better than a joke course across the beaches of the Costa del Crime.


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## Marc

coldash said:


> Maybe they could have added some cauldrons of boiling oil, pop-up road bollards and hoops of fire for them to ride thru at the same time as the gravel, sand and rubber tiles. The viewers and sponsors deserve better than a joke course across the beaches of the Costa del Crime.


ZOMG! Racers having to race across realistic road surfaces that aren't perfect and uniform and freshly paved for them at great taxpayer expense every year. OH THE HUMANITY IT IS EXACTLY LIKE CAULDRONS OF BOILING OIL AND HOOPS OF FIRE! ZOMGWTFBBQ!

Please. Reflect on how silly what you just typed sounds. Because it is really damned funny, the more so since you are serious.


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## coldash

You've hit the nail on the point. For sections of that course, they were not racing on roads; they were racing across a beach, along a wooden walkway bridge, not what would be counted by sane people as "realistic road surfaces".

Please reflect on how bizarre that is.


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## PBL450

coldash said:


> You've hit the nail on the point. For sections of that course, they were not racing on roads; they were racing across a beach, along a wooden walkway bridge, not what would be counted by sane people as "realistic road surfaces".
> 
> Please reflect on how bizarre that is.


Yeah. And racing across varied surfaces, like pave, like rainy stages and the like is fine, I'm all in with having to face those challenges, but this is a TTT. It isn't a normal stage. This route for THIS stage was just bad planning.


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## coldash

PBL450 said:


> Yeah. And racing across varied surfaces, like pave, like rainy stages and the like is fine, I'm all in with having to face those challenges,


Fully agree. This is an intrinsic part of road cycling.



> but this is a TTT. It isn't a normal stage. This route for THIS stage was just bad planning.


+1


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## Marc

Damn these wood and sand surfaces! The riders deserve better!


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## den bakker

expecting road racing being on something resembling roads. what a bizarre idea.


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## proclaimer888

Watched stage 1 on youtube......could not for the life of me find a live stream?? Does anyone know of a free live stream in the US?? Also looking for Cruz Campo.....I know, I ask alot.......


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## BacDoc

den bakker said:


> expecting road racing being on something resembling roads. what a bizarre idea.


Guess it depends on your definition of road. I ride both road and MTB and this course was more "road" than the smoothest buffed double track I have ever ridden. I watched the SteepHill videos of the TTT and looked like road to me, even more like a road than some of the cobbled stages. If there were a couple sketchy sections show us your pro riding skills.

I'm with Marc on this, these guys are pros if it's in the course you race, and the teams did with Tinkoff, BMC and the top ten teams putting in good effort. Heard interview with Sagan and Froome, Chris agreed with the call and said something about being safe. Sagan said it was fun.


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## coldash

Stage 2 was good but a few crashes. I'll avoid any spoilers but IMO, Nibali is lucky to still be in the race.


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## coldash

Can't say I'm surprised re Nibali

Nibali disqualified from Vuelta a España for holding onto team car | Cyclingnews.com


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## Marc

coldash said:


> Can't say I'm surprised re Nibali
> 
> Nibali disqualified from Vuelta a España for holding onto team car | Cyclingnews.com



Lots of shenanigans today.


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## Fireform

I'm with the riders on this one. TTT stages are fast as hell. The dingbat who came up with that route should find another job.

And Nibali? What was he thinking? Never seen such a flagrant case of hanging on a car.


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## Bill2

I like Nibali but he deserved it.


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## Mike T.

Fireform said:


> And Nibali? What was he thinking? Never seen such a flagrant case of hanging on a car.


I'll bet the Skoda Express happens very often in pro races but *towing a lone rider back up to* a group is a bit different from *towing a rider away from* a group. As the race director Guillen said said “If the rider had continued in the race, we would have had the problem of under what kind of rules [he had been allowed to do so] and whatever consequences his continued presence could have had."


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## love4himies

I always seem to miss the exciting stages .


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## love4himies

proclaimer888 said:


> Watched stage 1 on youtube......could not for the life of me find a live stream?? Does anyone know of a free live stream in the US?? Also looking for Cruz Campo.....I know, I ask alot.......


cycling fans lists the live streams:

2015 Vuelta a Espana LIVE - Route Details | www.cyclingfans.com

Go down about half way


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## MMsRepBike

Astana is hilarious. I laughed pretty hard at this.


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## den bakker

MMsRepBike said:


> Astana is hilarious. I laughed pretty hard at this.


Rocket boosters ON. 
The whole group seems to stop pedaling in a collective WTF moment.


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## PBL450

OMG! Nibali!! What the hell were they thinking! How blatant! Hard to believe. Helicopters everywhere... Thanks MMs for,posting the video of it, I don't think I could have believed that level of infraction, all of a sudden he just takes off on the side of the car... OMG. 

Damn. He was on my Velogames team. He was, in my limited knowledge of the sport thinking, one of the two guys I thought would win this Vuelta.


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## STRANA

Thank god Astana didn't have their licence removed over the winter after last years "concerns" or we would have missed VN crushing that Strava KOM!


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## dnice

Mike T. said:


> I'll bet the Skoda Express happens very often in pro races but *towing a lone rider back up to* a group is a bit different from *towing a rider away from* a group. As the race director Guillen said said “If the rider had continued in the race, we would have had the problem of under what kind of rules [he had been allowed to do so] and whatever consequences his continued presence could have had."


i think this captures it well. although tbh, nibbles is prolly more angry about the hit to his reputation than being sent home. i don't think he really wanted to be here anyway.


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## den bakker

dnice said:


> i think this captures it well. although tbh, nibbles is prolly more angry about the hit to his reputation than being sent home. i don't think he really wanted to be here anyway.


if he was that worried he could have let go :thumbsup:


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## love4himies

MMsRepBike said:


> Astana is hilarious. I laughed pretty hard at this.


Holy f.ack that is blatant cheating! I'm glad he and his DS have been DQ'd.

Thanks for posting that video.


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## den bakker

BacDoc said:


> Guess it depends on your definition of road.


well I have never heard anyone describe a road with the words "plastic surface" before.


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## azpeterb

PBL450 said:


> OMG! Nibali!! What the hell were they thinking! How blatant! Hard to believe. Helicopters everywhere... Thanks MMs for,posting the video of it, I don't think I could have believed that level of infraction, all of a sudden he just takes off on the side of the car... OMG.
> 
> Damn. He was on my Velogames team. He was, in my limited knowledge of the sport thinking, one of the two guys I thought would win this Vuelta.


Like the trusted line from 70's TV shows, Nibali was probably thinking to himself, "This is so crazy that it just might work!"


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## Bill2

Nibali wants back in the race (from his FB page, auto translated):

For what has happened today really I wonder at all the public apology, for anyone who is angry or ashamed for me !! Many of you have never run a bike, others are big fans more pure passion, and others have come close in recent years !! The bike cycling is passion, love, days away from family with grueling workouts, too many sacrifices that start at the age of about 16 years !! What happened today in the Vuelta happens in every race this should not prove that it is wrong and I have to go unpunished !!! Just punishment to be served dictate the judges. A year gone wrong for many reasons arrival at the Vuelta with the desire for redemption from a season infamous, I find myself at the first stop apologizing expression with the butt on the ground, you get up again helped by a companion hoping not signing hurt, you look the wounds left on the asphalt hot and circles your bike was destroyed, panic and chaos in the group, starting late ... Too much ... to the point that when I go back on my bike I have a delay of 1:20, I sling pursuit without fear, without water only slowly gain ground and find my companions waiting for me a long way, to head that thinks that I have to go and I have to stay ahead in the race for those people who look at me, for those who love me, for my wife, my daughter and for those who will be wondering how I am, I go on to show that I have not done anything, up to the mistake that cost me a dear driven 150 meters of which many are ready to throw mud, (returned to you is attached) emphasizes that no one fell was attacked, it is alone in pursuit against 18 racers that push the whole front !! no gentlemen in cycling race is run no waiting !! In cycling episodes like these there are many more so after a fall !! In the end all I would have thought to pay a hefty fine and a penalty as they do to stay off the charts !!! I also accepted a penalty of ten minutes !! After all I will not be the first nor the last of this story. I apologize again for having stolen some time and with the support or not you give me !! Good evening to you soon! Vince


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## MMsRepBike

Crybaby scumbag.



> “The crash was the fault of Caleb Ewan who did a crazy, aggressive move. Look at the video and you can understand why riders got hurt. Yet he’s still in the race,” Gazzetta dello Sport report Nibali as saying. “I went looking for him while I was waiting for a new bike but fortunately for him he’d already got going. I wanted to speak to him…”


And apparently he's some sort of tough guy as well. I didn't see this crazy move on the video, I guess I'll have to watch again. Orica claims he wasn't even there, he was at the back of the group.



> “As I said, I was left abandoned. Even if I was feeling good. I was hoping to get through the first week without losing a lot of time. It’s frustrating that I’m going home without being able to demonstrate anything. But I’ve got to keep my mouth shut.”


It's too late now Nibbles. But you should stop running your trap immediately.


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## Rashadabd

Yeah, I don't get the "I cheated, but that is somehow everyone else's fault" defense. Just say you are wrong and apologize. That's the best case scenario here. This whole thing makes me like him a lot less/not like him at all. I am kind of sick of Astana's Shenanigans at this point.


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## dnice

Scumbag? Really? Perhaps a bit of perspective is in order, huh? :idea:

In any event, the FB post speaks to dysfunction within the team, which one would expect given its management. Look for nibbles to be at Trek or Lampre in 2017 or (whoever needs a proven GC leader and can pay 2M euro). This relationship with Astana is not going to work out.


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## BacDoc

den bakker said:


> well I have never heard anyone describe a road with the words "plastic surface" before.



Plastic is just another petrochemical hydrocarbon material and at least here in the US it's used for a lot of recycle surface applications, roads, bridges etc. The recycling of plastics incorporated in road surfaces is gaining momentum worldwide.

Process for laying Plastic Roads

Edit: Google search shows Netherlands going all in for plastic roads! Whoda thunkit? But I digress, back to grabbing passing cars in the Vuelta!


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## 9W9W

dnice said:


> This relationship with Astana is not going to work out.


What about the previous post, and general context of this incident, made you think that Nibbles wasn't a willing participant in this bullsh1t? What exactly isn't "working out" here? 

You think they cuffed his hand to that car? No, Nibbles is lame and so is Astana.

and yeah, when you latch onto a car and soar uphill to leave a dozen of your equally hardworking colleagues in the dust, you are a [expletive] cheating scumbag who think he's above the rules. Was he the only one in that bunch who made these artifices he was crying about? No. 

I did my part, I called him a cheat on his FB page and told him he can watch the rest of the vuelta on universal sports network and directed him to check his local tv listings to get the exact channel. Hey I don't hold back. Cav had a kid, I congratulated him on two babies in his household.


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## den bakker

BacDoc said:


> Plastic is just another petrochemical hydrocarbon material and at least here in the US it's used for a lot of recycle surface applications, roads, bridges etc. The recycling of plastics incorporated in road surfaces is gaining momentum worldwide.
> 
> Process for laying Plastic Roads
> 
> Edit: Google search shows Netherlands going all in for plastic roads! Whoda thunkit? But I digress, back to grabbing passing cars in the Vuelta!


not really relevant to the surface at hand in the prologue. so yeah better back to the cars.


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## Tschai

Marc said:


> Please. Reflect on how silly what you just typed sounds. Because it is really damned funny, the more so since you are serious.


It's called hyperbole and it made a good point. The course was a joke and that is why the organizers neutralized it. The riders are the toughest damn athletes in sport. No one's crying.


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## RRRoubaix

Marc said:


> Please. Reflect on how silly what you just typed sounds. Because it is really damned funny, the more so since you are serious.


Eh, sorry- generally your comments are pretty good, but you're way off here. I will assume you really don't know anything about the course they set up for the TTT. Were you aware they set up plastic tiles in places because there wasn't any hard ground? And sand all over the place, of course. Hey- for a CX course, have at it, but for a Team Time Trial? Ludicrous.



MMsRepBike said:


> Astana is hilarious. I laughed pretty hard at this.


Indeed! It was fanTAStic! 
And his "apology" (in which he blamed almost everyone except himself) was almost equally amusing.



den bakker said:


> Rocket boosters ON.
> The whole group seems to stop pedaling in a collective WTF moment.


YES. How cool was that?
In my mind, I imagine them thinking "dood- how ******** stupid ARE you??"



Mike T. said:


> I'll bet the Skoda Express happens very often in pro races but *towing a lone rider back up to* a group is a bit different from *towing a rider away from* a group. As the race director Guillen said said “If the rider had continued in the race, we would have had the problem of under what kind of rules [he had been allowed to do so] and whatever consequences his continued presence could have had."


Exactly. Which I guess is what what he was alluding to in his crappy apology. Just shows how smart Nibali really is- too stupid to realize the difference.
I have to say I'm impressed and somewhat astonished that he was excluded. Not that he didn't deserve to be (far from it), but to be busted in Spain for cheating in a bike race? :lol:
SO happy- Nibbles was losing his sh1t over this- demanding Aru (a protected rider) give him his bike, throwing his new bike down. What a spoiled little brat.
Meanwhile f******g Tirralongo had his face beat to hell in that crash.
F Nibbles.


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## Mike T.

Soptted - the Astana team car, with Nibali modification -


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## coldash

Bouhanni was fined SFR100 after stage 3 for a very sticky bottle (not in the same league as Nibali and the team car didn't engage warp drive). It looked like they were talking him out of abandoning after he had hit the deck yet again. Given his 2nd place at the finish, it looks like the DS got it right.


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## Marc

coldash said:


> Bouhanni was fined SFR100 after stage 3 for a very sticky bottle (not in the same league as Nibali and the team car didn't engage warp drive). It looked like they were talking him out of abandoning after he had hit the deck yet again. Given his 2nd place at the finish, it looks like the DS got it right.


It was more than that in total.

Bouhani for the 100 fine, his team got fined 100... His team car got relegated to the back of the caravan.... And then the DS mouthed off to the commissaires...which was a 200 fine.

Very expensive sticky bottle


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## coldash

Marc said:


> It was more than that in total.
> 
> Bouhani for the 100 fine, his team got fined 100... His team car got relegated to the back of the caravan.... And then the DS mouthed off to the commissaires...which was a 200 fine.
> 
> Very expensive sticky bottle


Would have been worth it if he had won the stage instead of getting 2nd. IMO, the DS should have considered himself lucky to get away with the original sanction instead of having a go at the commissaires. Not clever.


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## FujiSteve

Forget Nibbles and the Astana *******s.....Yeah for Cadeb Ewans.









And I bet you thought he couldn't sprint and had retired.


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## BacDoc

H


FujiSteve said:


> Forget Nibbles and the Astana *******s.....Yeah for Cadeb Ewans.
> 
> View attachment 308740
> 
> 
> And I bet you thought he couldn't sprint and had retired.


Ya and he smoked Sagan and Degenkalb! 

Just look at the riders in that shot, John and Peter look spent. Strong finish by Ewans.


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## TricrossRich

wow... 2 stage victories for the young Chaves from Orica-Greenedge.... certainly looks like he's come to the Vuelta in top form. It'll be interesting to see if OGE can back him up for the whole rationed if he can hang in there.


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## FujiSteve

TricrossRich said:


> wow... 2 stage victories for the young Chaves from Orica-Greenedge.... certainly looks like he's come to the Vuelta in top form. It'll be interesting to see if OGE can back him up for the whole rationed if he can hang in there.


Maybe. He missed the TDF so he won't be as fatigued as Froome, Quintana or Valverde. But Chaves couldn't keep up with Aru in the Giro so I don't know how he can match him here. Then again, in the Giro he was working for Mathews, so maybe if OGE support him here then he has a chance.

Lots of maybes.

Dissapointed that nobody got my Caleb/Cadel Ewan/Evans joke. Or you got it and just thought it was lame.


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## 4Crawler

FujiSteve said:


> Dissapointed that nobody got my Caleb/Cadel Ewan/Evans joke. Or you got it and just thought it was lame.


Did get it. I originally thought Sean Kelly had mangled up Cadel's name when he was calling the finish of the stage. Then I remembered he's retired.


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## FujiSteve

4Crawler said:


> Did get it. I originally thought Sean Kelly had mangled up Cadel's name when he was calling the finish of the stage. Then I remembered he's retired.


Must be the first rider of Korean descent to win a GT stage. He was pretty popular when he won 4 stages of the Tour of Korea.

They call him the pocket rocket down here. But it will be difficult to fit him in the same team as Michael Mathews. Both similar kinds of rider although Ewan might be a bit faster on the flat.


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## love4himies

Big names taken out: Dan Martin, TJ, Boeckmans gone from a crash.


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## Marc

love4himies said:


> Big names taken out: Dan Martin, TJ, Boeckmans gone from a crash.


Bouhani taken out later...and Sagan crosses the line missing half his shorts.


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## ibericb

love4himies said:


> Big names taken out: Dan Martin, TJ, Boeckmans gone from a crash.


Add Van Garederen. Martin and Van Garderen are having a tough year in Grand Tours.


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## coldash

Sagan was taken out by a "neutral service vehicle" (a moto, I think). It is fair to say he wasn't happy (understandably) and was kicking lumps out of anything within reach, including his bike. The road rash looked grim.


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## MMsRepBike




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## MMsRepBike

Lots more happened today too, it was a wild stage.


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## coldash

I think this is a bit harsh.



> The College of Commissioners, through a statement, has been fined 300 Swiss francs (278.730 euros) to Tinkoff-Saxo rider for violation of Article UCI 12.1.040.37 (behavior that undermines the image of cycling) and Article UCI 12.1.040.29 (by insults and threats) after hitting the medical car and insulting the driver of the motorcycle.
> 
> Read more: Peter Sagan, financially penalized for "attacking the image of cycling" La Vuelta - EcoDiario.eshttp://ecodiario.eleconomista.es/ciclismo/noticias/6967124/08/15/Peter-Sagan-sancionado-economicamente-por-atentar-la-imagen-del-ciclismo.html#Kku8wLBT0j0FatgB


and from the Tinkoff-Saxo site


> Tinkoff-Saxo announces after stage 8 of Vuelta a España that the team considers legal actions against the person or persons responsible for crashing into Peter Sagan with 8.2km to go on the stage. A Shimano auxiliary motorbike recklessly and dangerously drove into the peloton at high speed hitting Peter Sagan in his rear wheel. The unacceptable collision caused Peter Sagan to crash and left the rider with extensive superficial wounds on the left buttocks and leg. Sagan was fortunately able to finish the stage but a final medical examination is yet to be made.


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## robt57

coldash said:


> I think this is a bit harsh.



Well, 300 swiss franks ain't even lunch money to Sagn, not to mention the team will probably pay it. It is hard to describe his behavior after the fact as sportsman like. I would have probably done the same thing, which does not make it right. 

After seeing in the TDF, Sagan kicking a MC, and the a team mechanics car driver tossing a full bottle at the guy and some relegation as a result. It seems the pattern is evolving which I suspect is a little trickle down from the master, so to speak.


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## MMsRepBike

The big crash on stage 8:






What happened that started it:

Boeckmans seriously injured in Vuelta a Espana crash | Cyclingnews.com

Basically a guy in the front hit a hole while drinking and went down really bad. Seeing how he was front/center, a lot of others went down very hard as well. Lots of people had to abandon because of it. TeeJay, Bouhanni, Dan Martin and of course Boeckmans who fell first.


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## MMsRepBike




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## JSR

MMsRepBike said:


> Basically a guy in the front hit a hole while drinking and went down really bad.


I feel bad for Boekmans, but taking a drink while on the front is violation of basic pack-riding rules, for exactly this reason.


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## JSR

robt57 said:


> After seeing in the TDF, Sagan kicking a MC, and the a team mechanics car driver tossing a full bottle at the guy and some relegation as a result. It seems the pattern is evolving which I suspect is a little trickle down from the master, so to speak.


I'd view this entirely differently. The TdF thing was justified, IMHO, as the moto was wrong to be in the midst of Sagan's bike change. Now we have a moto actually knocking him down! It's totally unacceptable.


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## ibericb

JSR said:


> I'd view this entirely differently. The TdF thing was justified, IMHO, as the moto was wrong to be in the midst of Sagan's bike change. Now we have a moto actually knocking him down! It's totally unacceptable.


Agreed - so you penalize the moto driver (send him packing). That doesn't, however excuse Sagan's behavior in this instance.


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## Marc

And...another casualty.

Stage winner Stuyven broke his scaphoid in that crash, and following the ceremonies has abandoned too.


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## Fireform

He had every right to be furious. The moto driver is lucky--Hinault would have punched his lights out.


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## Rich Gibson

robt57 said:


> Well, 300 swiss franks ain't even lunch money to Sagn, not to mention the team will probably pay it. It is hard to describe his behavior after the fact as sportsman like. I would have probably done the same thing, which does not make it right.
> 
> After seeing in the TDF, Sagan kicking a MC, and the a team mechanics car driver tossing a full bottle at the guy and some relegation as a result. It seems the pattern is evolving which I suspect is a little trickle down from the master, so to speak.


Nonsense! This is the third time a motorcycle has taken out a cyclist, he was a genuine contender. As for learning from the master, he is his own man. The irony of his fine for his conduct is the UCI failing to control the interference of the stupid cycles and cars in these races. Now THAT is bringing discredit on the sport of cycling!! How about a $1,000,000 fine on the UCI and on the Vuelta management.

Rich


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## robt57

Rich Gibson said:


> How about a $1,000,000 fine on the UCI and on the Vuelta management.
> 
> Rich


And that is not nonsense? I am logging my ass off this inane place, my God!


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## mpre53

Fireform said:


> He had every right to be furious. The moto driver is lucky--Hinault would have punched his lights out.


They'd have to pry his hands off the moto guy's throat. 

And I don't think I've read anywhere that he was fined for punching that protester.


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## Nubster

JSR said:


> I'd view this entirely differently. The TdF thing was justified, IMHO, as the moto was wrong to be in the midst of Sagan's bike change. Now we have a moto actually knocking him down! It's totally unacceptable.


Totally cost him the stage too. It was Peter's to lose. There wasn't anyone in that final sprint that could have touched him if he hadn't been hit by the idiot on the motorcycle. I hope Tinko does take legal action against the bike driver and even the Vuelta. Maybe others will realize it's not a joke to run down cyclists during a race (or anytime for that matter).


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## coldash

Sagan abandons. 



> The team claims Sagan suffered wounds and burns of first and second degree on the left side of his body, from the hip to the lower leg. He also has a contusion on his left forearm with an intra-muscular hematoma. The Tinkoff-Saxo staff decided that Sagan couldn’t safely continue the race with the injuries he suffered and will head home today.


According to Cycingnews


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## ibericb

coldash said:


> Sagan abandons.
> 
> 
> 
> According to Cycingnews


Tinkoff Saxo page with the announcement.


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## love4himies

I hope they kick the moto driver out too. That was just craziness to drive through the peloton like that.


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## MMsRepBike

love4himies said:


> I hope they kick the moto driver out too. That was just craziness to drive through the peloton like that.


He should be banned from driving any sporting events, blacklisted. Kicking him out of the race doesn't do anything but slap him on the wrist.


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## love4himies

MMsRepBike said:


> He should be banned from driving any sporting events, blacklisted. Kicking him out of the race doesn't do anything but slap him on the wrist.


True enough.


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## mikerp

From my view a pattern is emerging with the moto's and accidents, not sure if it the want/need to get closer to the riders or if they are putting more of them on the road. They seem to be everywhere and rather than pull off to the side when something is going on they seemingly want to push through to get back in the action.


----------



## Rokh Hard

ibericb said:


> Agreed - so you penalize the moto driver (send him packing). That doesn't, however excuse Sagan's behavior in this instance.



exactly.


----------



## MMsRepBike

Dumoulin... I guess he's just super human for his size? I don't enjoy watching him, doesn't look or feel right to me.


----------



## love4himies

I thought Froome had it in the bag for a bit. What a sprint by Dumoulin.


----------



## Fireform

MMsRepBike said:


> Dumoulin... I guess he's just super human for his size? I don't enjoy watching him, doesn't look or feel right to me.


Yes. Seeing him drop the likes of Chavez, Quintana and Maijka is a little discomforting.


----------



## love4himies

Fireform said:


> Yes. Seeing him drop the likes of Chavez, Quintana and Maijka is a little discomforting.


He's the same weight as Froome.


----------



## dnice

love4himies said:


> He's the same weight as Froome.


no one really knows but their trainers, but wiki lists him as being 8lbs heavier than froomey. I would guess that is typically relatively accurate (within one or two lbs) given that domoulin is not the typical GC leader who has to starve himself into a proper watts/kg weight for the grand tours. Clearly this version of TD is lighter than normal, and his form is off the charts.


----------



## love4himies

dnice said:


> no one really knows but their trainers, but wiki lists him as being 8lbs heavier than froomey. I would guess that is typically relatively accurate (within one or two lbs) given that domoulin is not the typical GC leader who has to starve himself into a proper watts/kg weight for the grand tours. Clearly this version of TD is lighter than normal, and his form is off the charts.


Dumoulin has youth on his side and he didn't complete the Tour, so his legs would be much fresher than Froome's too.


----------



## atpjunkie

robt57 said:


> Well, 300 swiss franks ain't even lunch money to Sagn, not to mention the team will probably pay it. It is hard to describe his behavior after the fact as sportsman like. I would have probably done the same thing, which does not make it right.
> 
> After seeing in the TDF, Sagan kicking a MC, and the a team mechanics car driver tossing a full bottle at the guy and some relegation as a result. It seems the pattern is evolving which I suspect is a little trickle down from the master, so to speak.


Sagan will get that money back in the lawsuit he'll file against the organization for having reckless, dangerous support riders. 
So he kills himself over the climbs and survives the break, he's sitting in the catbird seat as no one left has a finishing kick like his. He essentially is probably 80% plus odds of taking the stage and he gets farked by a motorbike and gets some serious rash. I'd be pissed too.


----------



## aclinjury

atpjunkie said:


> Sagan will get that money back in the lawsuit he'll file against the organization for having reckless, dangerous support riders.
> So he kills himself over the climbs and survives the break, he's sitting in the catbird seat as no one left has a finishing kick like his. He essentially is probably 80% plus odds of taking the stage and he gets farked by a motorbike and gets some serious rash. I'd be pissed too.


couldn't have said it better. People sitting in their homes watching Sagan throwing a tantrum are too quickly to critizice his behavior. When you are paid to race, when your boss is breathing down on your neck to perform, when you've come 2nd so many times,.. and then you've gotten taken out by a moto in the closing moment of a stage that every viewer watching has you as the overwhelming favorite, well you have every dam right to be pissed off. Sagan is just doing what every passionate athlete would do in the heat of the moment.


----------



## BacDoc

atpjunkie said:


> Sagan will get that money back in the lawsuit he'll file against the organization for having reckless, dangerous support riders.
> So he kills himself over the climbs and survives the break, he's sitting in the catbird seat as no one left has a finishing kick like his. He essentially is probably 80% plus odds of taking the stage and he gets farked by a motorbike and gets some serious rash. I'd be pissed too.


X2!

Sagan in great form and fighting hard in every race especially TOC and TDF. I've seen him bumped and rammed by other riders and watched him pull on sections where he does all the work and other guys are just sucking wheel. Never heard him complain or berate anybody, never heard him give any excuses for not winning a stage. When everyone was complaining about the opening stage he called it fun. This last incident was a physical and emotional hit that was pretty severe.

On the other hand the last stage finish was amazing! Loved watching TD battle Froome and his last attack was the stuff pro racing is all about. Kudos to TD and his team!


----------



## love4himies

atpjunkie said:


> Sagan will get that money back in the lawsuit he'll file against the organization for having reckless, dangerous support riders.
> So he kills himself over the climbs and survives the break, he's sitting in the catbird seat as no one left has a finishing kick like his. He essentially is probably 80% plus odds of taking the stage and he gets farked by a motorbike and gets some serious rash. I'd be pissed too.





aclinjury said:


> couldn't have said it better. People sitting in their homes watching Sagan throwing a tantrum are too quickly to critizice his behavior. When you are paid to race, when your boss is breathing down on your neck to perform, when you've come 2nd so many times,.. and then you've gotten taken out by a moto in the closing moment of a stage that every viewer watching has you as the overwhelming favorite, well you have every dam right to be pissed off. Sagan is just doing what every passionate athlete would do in the heat of the moment.





BacDoc said:


> X2!
> 
> Sagan in great form and fighting hard in every race especially TOC and TDF. I've seen him bumped and rammed by other riders and watched him pull on sections where he does all the work and other guys are just sucking wheel. Never heard him complain or berate anybody, never heard him give any excuses for not winning a stage. When everyone was complaining about the opening stage he called it fun. This last incident was a physical and emotional hit that was pretty severe.
> 
> On the other hand the last stage finish was amazing! Loved watching TD battle Froome and his last attack was the stuff pro racing is all about. Kudos to TD and his team!


Agree. I don't think any of us knows how we would react in that situation. The adrenaline is flowing, the stress of performing is breathing down your neck and then bam, all is lost due to an idiot moto. How many times have we seen riders throw their bikes? He didn't hit anybody, just looks like it was the back of the seat.


----------



## Rokh Hard

the climbs....now the fun starts.


----------



## atpjunkie

love4himies said:


> Agree. I don't think any of us knows how we would react in that situation. The adrenaline is flowing, the stress of performing is breathing down your neck and then bam, all is lost due to an idiot moto. How many times have we seen riders throw their bikes? He didn't hit anybody, just looks like it was the back of the seat.


I'd have hopped in the team car and gone and ran the moto driver down


----------



## Marc

atpjunkie said:


> I'd have hopped in the team car and gone and ran the moto driver down


And then not only would you be missing half you shorts, you'd be thrown out of the race for getting into and riding in a car.*

*as well as local criminal penalties for vehicular assault :thumbsup:


----------



## love4himies

Marc said:


> And then not only would you be missing half you shorts, you'd be thrown out of the race for getting into and riding in a car.*
> 
> *as well as local criminal penalties for vehicular assault :thumbsup:


Well, he ended up having to abandon anyways.

Maybe there should be some criminal penalties for motoring carelessly through the peloton putting cyclists lives in danger???


----------



## Migen21

I'm assuming the Moto driver did something he wasn't supposed to. In this case, it's my understanding it was a Shimano support moto.

Perhaps a stiff fine and some bad publicity for the team/group/company the driver is employed by (instead of just firing the driver). 

Let their be consequences beyond just the individual who was driving. Maybe they'll be more careful who they hire and how they are trained?


----------



## Marc

Migen21 said:


> I'm assuming the Moto driver did something he wasn't supposed to. In this case, it's my understanding it was a Shimano support moto.
> 
> Perhaps a stiff fine_* and some bad publicity*_ for the team/group/company the driver is employed by (instead of just firing the driver).
> 
> Let their be consequences beyond just the individual who was driving. Maybe they'll be more careful who they hire and how they are trained?


Well...for Shimano Neutral Service, this is the _4th_ or _5th _time one of their ProTour vehicle drivers has led to the hospitalization of ProTour racers live on TV _this season_ alone.

I think they've already gotten bad PR....and it seems to not have gotten the message to the home office. Although granted, in a race rider's will take risks and do some unpredictable squirrely things all of the incidents this season have squarely been the fault of SNS.


----------



## MMsRepBike

It wasn't a Shimano employee/person/driver whatever.

It was a Shimano bike, but the Vuelta provided the driver themselves.


----------



## ibericb

MMsRepBike said:


> It wasn't a Shimano employee/person/driver whatever.
> 
> It was a Shimano bike, but the Vuelta provided the driver themselves.


I have no idea what the employment or supervisory role is between Shimano and those who operate the neutral service vehicles that bear their name, but they are developing a fairly bad rep this year, having previously been involved in two crashes at the Tour of Flanders.


----------



## Marc

MMsRepBike said:


> It wasn't a Shimano employee/person/driver whatever.
> 
> It was a Shimano bike, but the Vuelta provided the driver themselves.


If you're right, it is surprising Shimano haven't said "Don't blame us, we're a sponsor but not the idiot who hired the idiots" in a press release.


----------



## MMsRepBike

They did, that's how I know. They wanted it to be crystal clear that they had nothing to do with the poor driving and that the Vuelta was directly responsible. Not exactly sure which article or whatever it was.

https://www.weraceshimano.com/blogs/response-to-vuelta-neutral-service-incident/

there we go, this'll work. their "official" response.


----------



## Rokh Hard

The Incredible Sulk....love it.


Vuelta Skelter: Sagan, the Incredible Sulk - Vuelta a España 2015 - Cycling - Eurosport



next they will be trying to sue someone over the crash ...."racing" as seen thru litigious happy go lucky american eyes. gotta love it.


----------



## Rokh Hard

love4himies said:


> Dumoulin has youth on his side and he didn't complete the Tour, so his legs would be much fresher than Froome's too.



"doping? HA!! .... thats a new question....(BIG SMILE) ..... ahhh.....that is the question i was not expecting actually" love some BigHappyD.


https://www.itv.com/itvplayer/cycling-la-vuelta-a-espana/series-6/episode-10


----------



## coldash

Sergio Paulinho was hit by a TV moto today; now in hospital. This was not an isolated incident. An AG2R (can't remember his name) rider was overtaken by a moto on the inside of a downhill bend and elsewhere riders were shouting abuse at the moto guys for getting in the way.

Froome crashed early on and is losing a lot of time. He gave a TV moto guy a bit of an earful as well.


----------



## burgrat

These race organizers and the UCI need to get their sh!t together and train/set rules for the motorcycles and cars. It's ridiculous this year, they are not only injuring riders, they are affecting results of races (i.e. GVA at San Sebastian, Sagan, etc.). It's not unthinkable that a rider could get killed.


----------



## MMsRepBike

"Hey Moto.... **** Off."






He got hurt pretty bad today.


----------



## love4himies

burgrat said:


> These race organizers and the UCI need to get their sh!t together and train/set rules for the motorcycles and cars. It's ridiculous this year, they are not only injuring riders, they are affecting results of races (i.e. GVA at San Sebastian, Sagan, etc.). It's not unthinkable that a rider could get killed.


I agree. What other pro sport has injuries that can be life threatening or career altering due to staff? I know we all want to see our fav riders, but there needs to be strict rules on motos and cars.


----------



## cq20

coldash said:


> Sergio Paulinho was hit by a TV moto today; now in hospital. This was not an isolated incident. An AG2R (can't remember his name) rider was overtaken by a moto on the inside of a downhill bend and elsewhere riders were shouting abuse at the moto guys for getting in the way.
> 
> Froome crashed early on and is losing a lot of time. He gave a TV moto guy a bit of an earful as well.


I see that Tinkoff was threatening to withdraw the team from the Vuelta. He has a lot to be unhappy about with the race organisation. I heard the Eurosport guys say there are around 110 motos and 70 autos on these stages.


----------



## troutmd

A stage after the rest day can sometimes be meaningful.


----------



## ColaJacket

mikerp said:


> From my view a pattern is emerging with the moto's and accidents, not sure if it the want/need to get closer to the riders or if they are putting more of them on the road. They seem to be everywhere and rather than pull off to the side when something is going on they seemingly want to push through to get back in the action.


In a different subforum, a video recorded by a drone was posted. 

I made the comment that that would be the future as it's much safer for the riders than motos. Another poster said that it would never happen. I think the moto drivers are going to make it happen.

GH


----------



## mikerp

ColaJacket said:


> In a different subforum, a video recorded by a drone was posted.
> 
> I made the comment that that would be the future as it's much safer for the riders than motos. Another poster said that it would never happen. I think the moto drivers are going to make it happen.
> 
> GH


Something definitely needs to change, this makes 2 Tinkov riders out in the Vuelta. As to drones I've seen them used locally and across the country, there could still be some issues but could be a solution.


----------



## Cinelli 82220

burgrat said:


> These race organizers and the UCI need to get their sh!t together and train/set rules for the motorcycles and cars. It's ridiculous this year, they are not only injuring riders, they are affecting results of races (i.e. GVA at San Sebastian, Sagan, etc.). It's not unthinkable that a rider could get killed.


Seat on TT bike one centimetre too far forward: massive reaction.

Rider gets run over and seventeen stitches: we will look into it.

WHAT? 110 motos? That is ridiculous.

I'd be worried about Tinkoff, last person you want to have for an enemy is a Russian billionaire. Him and the guys behind Katusha and Sky could start their own UCI, with their pocket money. Entire Sky budget is in the range of a Premier League star player.


----------



## STRANA

Stopped watching the race after all this nonsense. If the UCI doesn't address this then I hope they get some push back by the riders, teams and fans.

As for Peter reacting as he did I think his reaction is understandable given the whole story.


----------



## Marc

Froome out!

Froome exits Vuelta with broken foot following stage 11 crash - VeloNews.com


----------



## burgrat

Marc said:


> Froome out!
> 
> Froome exits Vuelta with broken foot following stage 11 crash - VeloNews.com


I don't know whether to admire his courage or laugh at his foolishness for finishing that stage. I think a lot of pros would have quit much earlier after fracturing a foot. He will hang it up and focus on next year's TdF. Meh...

Man, I really wish Contador would have ridden the Vuelta just to add to the craziness so far.


----------



## Jwiffle

burgrat said:


> Man, I really wish Contador would have ridden the Vuelta just to add to the craziness so far.


After seeing two teammates taken out by motos, he's thinking about how smart he was not to attempt a third grand tour!


----------



## Cinelli 82220

Agree with mikerp! 

Regarding the Froome image above: everyone could see he is in pain.

There is no need to stick the camera right in his face while he is trying to ride his bike. That cameraman and driver were being jerks trying to get a reaction IMO. There is too much of this right-in-the-face nonsense going on. Look at Sagan when he had the flat and the moto got between him and the team car. It looked like they were either completely clueless or trying deliberately to get in the way.

Motos and camera crews need much more careful selection. And there is no need for 110 of them.


----------



## MMsRepBike

Jwiffle said:


> After seeing two teammates taken out by motos, he's thinking about how smart he was not to attempt a third grand tour!


Or did the second one hit the moto?


----------



## Marc

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Agree with mikerp!
> 
> Regarding the Froome image above: everyone could see he is in pain.
> 
> *There is no need to stick the camera right in his face while he is trying to ride his bike. That cameraman and driver were being jerks trying to get a reaction IMO.* There is too much of this right-in-the-face nonsense going on. Look at Sagan when he had the flat and the moto got between him and the team car. It looked like they were either completely clueless or trying deliberately to get in the way.
> 
> Motos and camera crews need much more careful selection. And there is no need for 110 of them.


Don't see it that way at all.

This is a race. The cameras job is to record the drama and the action...and Froome not being stone faced staring at his stem in a voodoo trance is drama. Especially after a crash.

And remember the 100+ number of motorbikes probably includes police escorts both for the peloton and the PR caravan that precedes the race.


----------



## ibericb




----------



## Rokh Hard

froome was not hit by a moto, self inflicted. out with fractured navicular bone....painful and takes time to heal, done it many times myself....seems to afflict the more lean and lanky athletes such as (myself) and froome

Medscape: Medscape Access

todays tinkoff/moto incident was the paulinho's fault. he ran into the moto exiting the corner. tinkoff leave LV....let them. little snivelers.

.......here comes esteban..... :thumbsup:


----------



## JSR

Rokh Hard said:


> stodays tinkoff/moto incident was the paulinho's fault. he ran into the moto exiting the corner.


 Wrong. The moto effing stopped at the exit of the turn. This is similar to Phinney's crash at the US Champs last year. If the moto's out front he needs to stay out front.


----------



## MMsRepBike

Better view of Sagan crash. You can see the speeding moto hit him.

Yup, I'd sue for sure.


----------



## dnice

that is just brutal! no wonder he was so pissed off.


----------



## STRANA

I just don't understand how anyone could be critical of any rider reacting to this as being in the wrong and the UCI needs a slap for their reaction!


----------



## mpre53

It was bad for the "image" of cycling. Like, motorcycles running down riders helps its image, I guess. 

Astana having 5 riders test positive in the span of a year, and keeping their license, is......????


----------



## burgrat

mpre53 said:


> It was bad for the "image" of cycling. Like, motorcycles running down riders helps its image, I guess.
> 
> Astana having 5 riders test positive in the span of a year, and keeping their license, is......????


What about the UCI's silence when Oleg Tinkov calls our president "monkeyobama" on Twitter? They (UCI/Cookson) chime in when that women's team had shorts that were skin-colored, saying it was "unacceptable by any standard of decency", but they allow a racist team owner to spout sh!t on almost a daily basis without any form of sanction or even a comment and they aren't doing much of anything when the riders to have to deal with reckless behavior by the race caravans. They really need to get their act together and start acting like a real, professional organization. The UCI is a joke right now, and they have been for some time.

Btw, the video shows that Sagan is lucky he wasn't killed. I don't blame him for his reaction. I would have had to be held back from that motorcycle driver. I hope he heals up well. I like Sagan. Oleg can f-himself.


----------



## Rokh Hard

ha!! good one. spot on.





mpre53 said:


> It was bad for the "image" of cycling. Like, motorcycles running down riders helps its image, I guess.
> 
> Astana having 5 riders test positive in the span of a year, and keeping their license, is......????


----------



## MMsRepBike

Hey soigner, take this bike, take this seatpost and this frame and go hide it.
What? Do what? Dude I'm handing out bidons.
Take this bike and go hide it somewhere, I don't care where, make it go away.
**** your bidons, I don't care, do it now!
Um... Okay... But... Okay...


----------



## mpre53

Geez----are my eyes deceiving me, or did Schleck actually win something today?


----------



## love4himies

mpre53 said:


> Geez----are my eyes deceiving me, or did Schleck actually win something today?


He did, it was shocking. Maybe he's finally going to move on without his brother.


----------



## duriel

I think it is great that Frank won the stage. That was a tough stage.

Anywhay, what was the deal with the Movistar hiding the bike?


----------



## TricrossRich

duriel said:


> Anywhay, what was the deal with the Movistar hiding the bike?


First I've heard of this... what's the story?


----------



## love4himies

duriel said:


> I think it is great that Frank won the stage. That was a tough stage.
> 
> Anywhay, what was the deal with the Movistar hiding the bike?


It was a broken bike that they wanted out of public view as sponsors don't like to have it advertised their bikes break.


----------



## Rokh Hard

Bikes are inspected over weekend at Vuelta - VeloNews.com



love4himies said:


> It was a broken bike that they wanted out of public view as sponsors don't like to have it advertised their bikes break.


----------



## Rokh Hard




----------



## spdntrxi

As Canyon expands in markets such as down under...and possibly USA you are correct they don't want it to be known their frames can break. I've actually heard they are on the fragile end of the spectrum compared to other brands... I still want one (w/warranty)


----------



## Rokh Hard

todays TT now - 

Watch Live La Vuelta a Espana 2015 Online Video ASO/UCI Cycling - Cycling

2015 Vuelta a España Live Video, Route, Results, Photos, Startlist, TV


----------



## TricrossRich

Anyone think that Dumoulin's performance is "unbelievable"? Obviously, he was expected to win today in the TT, but what about his ability to hold on to these guys in the climbs prior to the TT.


----------



## dnice

i want the big dude to smash the jockeys and take a miguel-esque triumph. about time we see a proper third week battle in one of these grand tours.


----------



## TricrossRich

dnice said:


> i want the big dude to smash the jockeys and take a miguel-esque triumph. about time we see a proper third week battle in one of these grand tours.


I agree.. its exciting, but is it legit?


----------



## MMsRepBike

TricrossRich said:


> Anyone think that Dumoulin's performance is "unbelievable"? Obviously, he was expected to win today in the TT, but what about his ability to hold on to these guys in the climbs prior to the TT.


Nothing to see here.

Move along.


----------



## BacDoc

MMsRepBike said:


> Nothing to see here.
> 
> Move along.


X2 - full natty bro
Cycling is clean now, it's all about cadence and beet juice.


----------



## Rashadabd

TricrossRich said:


> I agree.. its exciting, but is it legit?


I am not a big Dumoulin fan or anything, but the guy has been a top time trialist for the past few years and steadily developing as a GC racer. I am not comfortable saying any pro is or isn't clean with any degree of certainty, but he didn't just pop up on the radar during the Vuelta if you follow pro cycling closely at all.


----------



## Rashadabd

Rashadabd said:


> I am not a big Dumoulin fan or anything, but the guy has been a top time trialist for the past few years and steadily developing as a GC racer. I am not comfortable saying any pro is or isn't clean with any degree of certainty, but he didn't just pop up on the radar during the Vuelta if you follow pro cycling closely at all.


This all happened well before the Vuelta: CyclingQuotes.com Tom Dumoulin signs two-year contract with Giant-Alpecin


----------



## mpre53

dnice said:


> i want the big dude to smash the jockeys and take a miguel-esque triumph. about time we see a proper third week battle in one of these grand tours.


A Mig-esque triumph probably isn't what you really want, since I doubt you'll find 3 people outside of Spain who believe that he wasn't jacked to the gills.


----------



## den bakker

BacDoc said:


> X2 - full natty bro
> Cycling is clean now, it's all about cadence and beet juice.


any chance the comedy material will be updated to this decade any time soon?


----------



## Rokh Hard

TD is a good lookin kid that knows how to ride a bike. nice work tom. take it home. :thumbsup:


----------



## TricrossRich

Rashadabd said:


> I am not a big Dumoulin fan or anything, but the guy has been a top time trialist for the past few years and steadily developing as a GC racer. I am not comfortable saying any pro is or isn't clean with any degree of certainty, but he didn't just pop up on the radar during the Vuelta if you follow pro cycling closely at all.


For sure he's a top time trialist, no denying that at all. His performance yesterday speaks to that. I'm more interested in what he's done prior to the time trial, in the mountains. I don't know how tall he is or what he weighs, but he sure looks much bigger than any of the "climbers" and he even looks bigger than Froome. Body morphology and physicality determine a lot of what we can do and excel at and it just seems that he shouldn't be ale to to contend and hang on to guys that are 130 pounds when the stages start to climb and yet he has.... given what we know about the past, when people seemed to be doing things that their body type said they shouldn't, it makes me suspicious.

That being said, I think its also an interesting concept to take top time trialists and turn them into GC guys... Time trialing, IMO, is about having a big engine and being able to put yourself in the hurt locker and ignore it. Usually they lack in climbing because they're heavier, but if you can lean out a time trialist and preserve that power and keep the will to fight, then maybe you can get close to the power/weight ratio of the climbers. I've always been impressed with Tony Martin's ability to just bury himself on the front for his team mates... last year, at the tour, when he was pulling Kwiato around for like 3/4 of the stage trying to get the stage win, amazing stuff. Imagine if Martin leaned out... he'd be a Monster.


----------



## Rashadabd

TricrossRich said:


> For sure he's a top time trialist, no denying that at all. His performance yesterday speaks to that. I'm more interested in what he's done prior to the time trial, in the mountains. I don't know how tall he is or what he weighs, but he sure looks much bigger than any of the "climbers" and he even looks bigger than Froome. Body morphology and physicality determine a lot of what we can do and excel at and it just seems that he shouldn't be ale to to contend and hang on to guys that are 130 pounds when the stages start to climb and yet he has.... given what we know about the past, when people seemed to be doing things that their body type said they shouldn't, it makes me suspicious.
> 
> That being said, I think its also an interesting concept to take top time trialists and turn them into GC guys... Time trialing, IMO, is about having a big engine and being able to put yourself in the hurt locker and ignore it. Usually they lack in climbing because they're heavier, but if you can lean out a time trialist and preserve that power and keep the will to fight, then maybe you can get close to the power/weight ratio of the climbers. I've always been impressed with Tony Martin's ability to just bury himself on the front for his team mates... last year, at the tour, when he was pulling Kwiato around for like 3/4 of the stage trying to get the stage win, amazing stuff. Imagine if Martin leaned out... he'd be a Monster.


I pretty much agree with you. Etixx has already done that very thing with Tony Martin though. He has won or comes close to winning his fair share of one week stage races throughout the year. I don't think you will ever see him in a GC role for a grand tour, but he is a GC guy at times. A number of track guys and time trialists have already made the successful transition to GC as well. The poster boy for that philosophy is Sir Bradley Wiggins. He started out his career as a bigger track and ITT guy and then leaned out and perfected his climbing technique as he started to have success with GC. It can be done. As far as GC with Dumoulin goes, he has been performing well as a GC threat for at least the last two years. He has a number of top 5 finishes and performed really well throughout this season and last. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Dumoulin


----------



## Rashadabd

Here's what Dumoulin says about the whole thing and guess who he refers to as his blueprint? Wiggo.... Tom is is listed as 6'1" and 157 lbs btw, which is the same weight as Rohan Dennis and roughly the same as Wiggins (152) and Froome (157). 

Tom Dumoulin: 'Bradley Wiggins showed me what's possible' - Cycling Weekly


----------



## TricrossRich

Rashadabd said:


> Here's what Dumoulin says about the whole thing and guess who he refers to as his blueprint? Wiggo.... Tom is is listed as 6'1" and 157 lbs btw, which is the same weight as Rohan Dennis and roughly the same as Wiggins (152) and Froome (157).
> 
> Tom Dumoulin: 'Bradley Wiggins showed me what's possible' - Cycling Weekly


Hmmm... ok, so he's basically the same size as Wiggo and Froome. Boy, he sure looks bigger though.


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## Rashadabd

Rashadabd said:


> I am not a big Dumoulin fan or anything, but the guy has been a top time trialist for the past few years and steadily developing as a GC racer. I am not comfortable saying any pro is or isn't clean with any degree of certainty, but he didn't just pop up on the radar during the Vuelta if you follow pro cycling closely at all.





TricrossRich said:


> Hmmm... ok, so he's basically the same size as Wiggo and Froome. Boy, he sure looks bigger though.


He does to me too, but then I saw this: https://instagram.com/p/7cp5SeK5dL/ #hungry


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## SBKron

Was thinking how similar Dumoulin looked on his time trial bike to Wiggins. It does seem like Wiggins and Froome were/are a little bit leaner. It does look like if Dumoulin continues to progress, gets the right course and good team support that he could compete at the Tour. Lot's of "ifs" and it seems like the Tour organizers seem to be tailoring the route to favor climbers.


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## TricrossRich

Rashadabd said:


> He does to me too, but then I saw this: https://instagram.com/p/7cp5SeK5dL/ #hungry





SBKron said:


> Was thinking how similar Dumoulin looked on his time trial bike to Wiggins. It does seem like Wiggins and Froome were/are a little bit leaner. It does look like if Dumoulin continues to progress, gets the right course and good team support that he could compete at the Tour. Lot's of "ifs" and it seems like the Tour organizers seem to be tailoring the route to favor climbers.


Yes... Looking at him, I think he definitely has a shot at success, but he's also going to need a team to support him the way Sky does Froome. On many of these climbs, Dumoulin is alone... he's holding his own, but barely, and I think that if a dedicated team decided to attack, he'd have trouble. Giant will have to decide if they want to continue with a dedicated sprint lead-out train for Kittel in tours or focus on GC.


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## SBKron

TricrossRich said:


> Yes... Looking at him, I think he definitely has a shot at success, but he's also going to need a team to support him the way Sky does Froome. On many of these climbs, Dumoulin is alone... he's holding his own, but barely, and I think that if a dedicated team decided to attack, he'd have trouble. Giant will have to decide if they want to continue with a dedicated sprint lead-out train for Kittel in tours or focus on GC.


It certainly sounds like Giant weren't expecting to be in this position. I don't know their roster well enough to know if they have climber that could support Dumoulin in a GT. They do have Warren Barguil that they brought to the Tour who finished in the top 20. Not sure if they could ride together both for GC. Giant does seem to be built to support Kittel and Degenkolb and have had a lot of success with both in both the Tour and classics so they will have decisions to make on how to proceed.


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## Rashadabd

SBKron said:


> It certainly sounds like Giant weren't expecting to be in this position. I don't know their roster well enough to know if they have climber that could support Dumoulin in a GT. They do have Warren Barguil that they brought to the Tour who finished in the top 20. Not sure if they could ride together both for GC. Giant does seem to be built to support Kittel and Degenkolb and have had a lot of success with both in both the Tour and classics so they will have decisions to make on how to proceed.


I think they are following a similar program as Etixx. They are primarily a sprint and classics team that has come to realize that sponsors and fans need/want you to have at least a solid GC contender or two. Both have decided to work to develop their own talent or find an up and comer to cultivate instead of running out and splashing cash on a huge name. These days, you want to be relevant in the grand tours and not just the handful of sprint stages, you want to be in the mix for the leader's jersey every year if you can. They get that and both teams are in the process of becoming more well rounded. They probably won't change their focus and commitment to sprints and/or the Classics (at least I hope they don't), but they want to be relevant all year long in every stage and every race that they can, like Sky, etc.


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## coldash

News on next year's Vuelta



> As per recent Vuelta tradition, the race is expected to start with a team time trial. “All of it will be on tarmac”, race director Javier Guillen said on Friday morning, in an ironic reference to the controversy which erupted around the route surfaces for the opening team time trial in Porto Banus this August.


Vuelta a Espana will start in Galicia in 2016 | Cyclingnews.com


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## MMsRepBike

pft. they should be track slinging each other.


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## dnice

if the big man survives tomorrow with a couple second lead does he head into sunday the victor like he would at the tour? or would it still be possible for aru to attack and grab an unlikely victory?


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## Jwiffle

MMsRepBike said:


> pft. they should be track slinging each other.


The video is too grainy and other riders in the way to see if Sanchez have Aru a push...for all I could tell, he just waved him by, saying he was too exhausted to help with chasing down the move. (Not saying there wasn't a push, but no way to tell for certain from that angle)


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## config

Wow, what a stage finish for Astana and Fabian Aru!


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## dnice

i wish i hadn't seen that...it reminded me of those nature shows where the young male lion destroys the older alpha male and then murders all his cubs. dumoulin desrved so much, much more than that.


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## love4himies

Yes, very sad for Tom, but he will get another chance, he's young still.


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## Ventruck

Yawn. Aru with DAT ASTERISK VUELTA.

No GOATador and Sagan to kick his ass on the street. Just OLD MAN Tom, Froome with his token "uhh see guise I can't win everything" act, Repeating Failure Rodriguez, Volvo Driving Valverde. 










No really, good run


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## Rokh Hard

with the margin at the finish, they should have tested aru. busted. :thumbsup:


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## Jwiffle

mpre53 said:


> It was bad for the "image" of cycling. Like, motorcycles running down riders helps its image, I guess.
> 
> Astana having 5 riders test positive in the span of a year, and keeping their license, is......????


Exactly! If I was a non-cyclist, and a buddy tried to get me into the sport, my thinking would go like this: "They close the roads for these guys to keep vehicles away from them. Yet, they STILL get run over. No way I'm going to ride a bike on the open roads!" I wouldn't even notice the rider's reaction to be being run over.


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