# Garmin Speed Cadence old vs new???



## TiCoyote (Jun 28, 2005)

Just ordered a Garmin Edge 500 ($149 on Art's Cyclery w promo code Save15). I also ordered the GSC 10 Speed/Cadence sensor from Amazon for $35, b/c I want cadence and I understand that live speed readouts from GPS are not terribly accurate. 

Here's my question: The new magnet-less speed/cadence sensors are $60-$70. Are they much better than the GSC10? Should I get them instead? 

Or, if someone has a better suggestion for a 3rd party Speed/Cadence ANT+ sensor that is compatible w the Edge 500, I'm all ears. 

Thank you!


----------



## TiCoyote (Jun 28, 2005)

After more research, the reviews stated that the new magnetless system is more convenient, but less accurate. The GSC-10 is difficult to set up and susceptible to water damage. I ordered the Cateye sensor for $50 on eBay. ThisIsAnt.com claims it is compatible with the Edge500. I currently have a similar Cateye sensor on my bike, and it's relatively bombproof.


----------



## 3DKiwi (Dec 1, 2012)

I've got the magnetless sensor. I'm not aware of any accuracy issues. There is however a slight lag when your cadence changes suddenly compared to the old GSC10. The advantages far out way this minor issue.


----------



## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Bontrager makes a new combo cadence sensor in both BT and Ant+ that works with the Edge devices. It's pretty similar to the GSC10 overall. FWIW, I've got 3 GSC10s, one over 5 years old, and never had an issue with any of them wet or dry on road or mtb.


----------



## TiCoyote (Jun 28, 2005)

Ok. I'll let you know what I think of the Cateye when I get it all set up.


----------



## TiCoyote (Jun 28, 2005)

I received the Cateye sensor last week. The unit is very lightweight but feels sturdy. Setup was pretty straightforward. I've ridden with it twice. The first ride was flawless. The second ride, it kept dropping the signal. I'm going to try a new battery, but I'll probably just switch to the magnetless sensors. Seems like a better solution.


----------



## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

TiCoyote said:


> The first ride was flawless. The second ride, it kept dropping the signal.


Cateye stuff works great, and there's no magic in magnet sensors. 

Be sure the cadence sensor and *crank* magnet pass close to each other. It's possible that the Cateye sensor moved away during the ride (got accidentally knocked, etc) enough to cause the erratic signal. Once you find a good position, tighten the cadence sensor as much as possible to the chain stay. Sometimes, a little piece of two-way tape between the sensor mount and the chain stay can help.


----------



## TiCoyote (Jun 28, 2005)

I don't think that it was moving. I'm going to try replacing the battery. The Cadence readout on the Edge would go to "0" when I stopped pedaling, but sometimes it would just read "--." I think this means that it wasn't getting a signal at all.


----------



## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

TiCoyote said:


> I don't think that it was moving. I'm going to try replacing the battery. The Cadence readout on the Edge would go to "0" when I stopped pedaling, but sometimes it would just read "--." I think this means that it wasn't getting a signal at all.


That's normal on a Garmin. No pedaling = no reading (--). If you get a reading once you're pedaling again, then the cadence sensor is working properly. If the reading drops out while you're pedaling, _then_ you can try changing the battery or checking sensor positioning.


----------



## TiCoyote (Jun 28, 2005)

tvad said:


> That's normal on a Garmin. No pedaling = no reading (--). If you get a reading once you're pedaling again, then it's working properly. If the reading drops out while you're pedaling, _then_ you can try changing the battery or checking sensor positioning.


No, what I mean is, when I stopped at a light, it would read "0," but sometimes, when I was pedaling, it would suddenly read "--"


----------



## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

TiCoyote said:


> No, what I mean is, when I stopped at a light, it would read "0," but sometimes, when I was pedaling, it would suddenly read "--"


Understand now. New battery or adjust magnet/sensor positions.


----------



## TiCoyote (Jun 28, 2005)

The next step is a new battery. Thanks.


----------



## Rob-c (Jul 4, 2014)

I have several GSC 10 sensors and had no issues. Set up is easy just takes a bit of adjustment. Chainstay sensors have never moved, to stop magnet moving over time I run a very small bead of silicone sealant around it along with the cable tie, clear on silver cranks and black on black cranks, can't see it at all. As for gps speed accuracy I run specialised computers on the stem with the Garmin out front, set in kms, and find the speed read outs so close it's not worth worrying about


----------



## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

TiCoyote said:


> After more research, the reviews stated that the new magnetless system is more convenient, but less accurate. The GSC-10 is difficult to set up and susceptible to water damage. I ordered the Cateye sensor for $50 on eBay. ThisIsAnt.com claims it is compatible with the Edge500. I currently have a similar Cateye sensor on my bike, and it's relatively bombproof.


I find the Garmin ones flaky but the Cateye ones to be completely unreliable. 

I actually felt like the old ones start better. Tough to say for accuracy.


----------



## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

I have several GSC10's and they have worked fine for me. The new sensors are more expensive and I certainly have no reason to switch


----------



## TiCoyote (Jun 28, 2005)

Well, it's been a week with the Cateye. I don't think it is a bad product, but I'm not going to keep it. With the new battery, it is much more reliable, but it still drops the signal on an average of once per ride. I'm not sure if this is a defect in the unit, or if it is just that it won't stay in place on the chainstay. In either case, I want something that will do its job every time. Just "set it and forget it." I tried out the magnetless sensors on a ride today, and they really work like a dream. Work all the time. Don't have to worry about positioning. Can't get knocked out of the way. There is definitely a bit of lag in the auto-pause, (though a shorter lag in auto resume, although, again, that could be my perception). In any case, the magnets have an inherent flaw in that the positioning is sensitive, and when I'm putting the bike in and out of the car, the closet, the front door, etc, it's just too easy to knock the thing out of position. Of course, with the new ones, a rubber band holds the cadence sensor onto the crank arm, and I'm a little worried that the rubber band wear out rubbing against my shoe, and then I'd lose the sensor, but I'm sure there are creative solutions for this. Overall, as 3DKiwi pointed out, the advantages of convenience and reliability are huge.


----------



## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

I've used cadence sensors, both wired and wireless, for over 20 years: Cateye, Sigma and Garmin. In that time, I've had maybe six instances of intermittent readings, which were corrected in seconds by adjusting the sensor position.

Problems are so rare and the solution so simple that it has been a non-issue on my bikes.


----------



## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Those GSC10s are pieces of sh*t. I've gone through about 10 of them before giving up. Switched to the Wahoo ANT+ speed/cadence unit and they have been flawless for 2 years now.


----------



## Corenfa (Jun 9, 2014)

I have a GSC10 on my road bike and my wife's bike and have never had problems. Putting one on my kid's bike this weekend.


----------



## sheepherder (Mar 11, 2012)

I've gotten a few GSC 10 through warranty which was tough. Just don't get it really wet. Mine both failed after getting wet. They can probably handle a little water but if any water gets inside they are finished. There is a fix for that on the web, its a known problem


----------



## ExChefinMA (May 9, 2012)

I have both, GSC 10 on the CAAD and the magnetless on the SuperSixEvo, both read accurately from what I am able to discern.

I have not had any issues with them starting up or reading. Can't go wrong either way.

The HRM on the other hand, it decides to cut out now and then mid ride.

EEC


----------



## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

ExChefinMA said:


> I have both, GSC 10 on the CAAD and the magnetless on the SuperSixEvo, both read accurately from what I am able to discern.
> 
> I have not had any issues with them starting up or reading. Can't go wrong either way.
> 
> ...


The new magnetless ones seem to need me to start pedaling before it recognizes them but as long as I remember to set it for the right bike it is not an issue.

The HRM always seemed fluky until a couple weeks ago I got heart rate gel. Since then it seems to work perfectly. Extra step that is not needed with Polar but not a big deal.


----------



## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

No need for gel, just lick and rub into the strap contacts. Spit if licking is too icky for you...or use plain water.


----------



## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

looigi said:


> No need for gel, just lick and rub into the strap contacts. Spit if licking is too icky for you...or use plain water.


You just about need to blow the Garmin straps and still it is nowhere near as effective as the gel. Licking the straps get them to register but they still give erratic readings. The gel readings seem accurate and consistent.


----------



## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

NJBiker72 said:


> You just about need to blow the Garmin straps and still it is nowhere near as effective as the gel. Licking the straps get them to register but they still give erratic readings. The gel readings seem accurate and consistent.


Not in my experience. I used gel, when it ran out went to spit, and saw no difference. I mostly use the old hard strap which I find to be equally comfortable and more reliable than the newer deluxe strap. It also could be different situations like humidity, and loose/flapping garments, sweating, physiological differences, ...


----------



## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

looigi said:


> Not in my experience. I used gel, when it ran out went to spit, and saw no difference. I mostly use the old hard strap which I find to be equally comfortable and more reliable than the newer deluxe strap. It also could be different situations like humidity, and loose/flapping garments, sweating, physiological differences, ...


Well after working well for a couple of weeks with gel it started acting up again today. Did really hard climbs with a 45 heart rate. Hoping it just needs cleaning. 

Garmin does not seem to make anything that works


----------



## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

NJBiker72 said:


> Well after working well for a couple of weeks with gel it started acting up again today. Did really hard climbs with a 45 heart rate. Hoping it just needs cleaning.
> 
> Garmin does not seem to make anything that works


I'll second that.

Wahoo makes a nice ANT+ strap that works pretty consistently once it has good contact.


----------



## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

robdamanii said:


> I'll second that.
> 
> Wahoo makes a nice ANT+ strap that works pretty consistently once it has good contact.


Might have to check that out. That or one of the arm bands.


----------



## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

NJBiker72 said:


> Might have to check that out. That or one of the arm bands.


I'm not sure if they make just the ANT+ one anymore. I know they Tickr is compatible, and it has a really nice Bluetooth component as well that you can use with a phone in the gym should you choose. 

I think it runs around $60 retail.


----------



## rufus (Feb 3, 2004)

I just got one of the new magnet-less cadence sensors, and am having trouble getting it to work. I put it on the crankarm, give it a few revolutions, but the led doesn't flash, and my Edge doesn't recognize it. I took the battery out and reinstalled it, and the led did flash then. But still not when on the crankarm. No idea what to do next to try to fix it other than a new battery.


----------



## Corenfa (Jun 9, 2014)

rufus said:


> I just got one of the new magnet-less cadence sensors, and am having trouble getting it to work. I put it on the crankarm, give it a few revolutions, but the led doesn't flash, and my Edge doesn't recognize it. I took the battery out and reinstalled it, and the led did flash then. But still not when on the crankarm. No idea what to do next to try to fix it other than a new battery.


Weird.
I just picked up an Edge 1000 and it came with the new sensors in the box. I installed the sensors on the bike (super quick) then turned on the unit and it immediately recognized the speed and cadence sensor. However, only the speed automatically paired. I spun the crank arm after having hit the "pair" option and it immediately picked it up. I had to do the same with the HR monitor. I had to put it on while it was in pair mode and then it picked it up.

I will say that I bought 2 HR monitors for my wife's 510 and neither of them would pair. Then I tried to pair one to my son's new 510 and it picked it right up...

I do love my Garmins, but I do get very frustrated with how much I don't get paid to do their testing for them...


----------



## rufus (Feb 3, 2004)

Before you got them paired up, did the led flash on the cadence sensor, even though it wasn't being picked up? I spun the cranks like 20 times, and still no flashing light.


----------



## rufus (Feb 3, 2004)

Got it working. As usual, something stupid. 

The Edge was looking for a speed/cadence sensor, while I only had the cadence. When I went into 'sensor details' on the unit, and selected just the 'cadence' sensor, it paired up right away.


----------



## skinewmexico (Apr 19, 2010)

NJBiker72 said:


> Well after working well for a couple of weeks with gel it started acting up again today. Did really hard climbs with a 45 heart rate. Hoping it just needs cleaning.
> 
> Garmin does not seem to make anything that works


Do you rinse it after every use? The new soft straps say rinse after every 6 uses, machine wash on the 7th.


----------



## Corenfa (Jun 9, 2014)

NJBiker72 said:


> Well after working well for a couple of weeks with gel it started acting up again today. Did really hard climbs with a 45 heart rate. Hoping it just needs cleaning.
> 
> Garmin does not seem to make anything that works


Mine acted up a little bit like this for a few rides, then I realized I was wearing it JUST a tad too low. Moved it up an inch or two and voila, realistic heart rates again. Using gel or water also helped. I don't use gel. I grab a little water on my finger then wipe it across. I have the older, all plastic design (with cloth backstrap). Also, I use alcohol wipes after every few rides just to keep it all clean and tidy.


----------



## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Have had one GSC10 for 2.5 years, not problems. Changed the battery once. Although it doesn't get used as much as the Duotrap on the Domane, had one of them fail. Garmin soft strap HR monitor (newer version) has 2 years on the same battery and no issues except when I wear a flappy jersey it goes nuts and then just until it get's some sweat on it. I don't have to wet the strap at all, it picks up right away and stays accurate all the time.


----------



## AndreyT (Dec 1, 2011)

Occasionally I run into situations when the Edge refuses to receive the cadence signal from GSC 10, despite the fact that the sensor battery is OK and sensor position is OK as well. It is hard to say whether the speed signal is lost as well, since Edge can display speed by using GPS data.

The only way to make the cadence sensor to work is to power off the head unit and then power it on again. This seems to be some sort of pairing issue.

BTW, how does Edge decide which data channel to use when calculating speed - wheel RPM sensor or GPS data? Is there any way to tell which approach is used at any given moment?


----------



## tigerleghorn (Oct 24, 2013)

GSC10 Every time for me. It's cleaner on the bike when you use a high strength Neodymium disc magnet which sits in the recess of the pedal spindle hole (no unsightly cable ties on the crank) and fix a neodymium rod magnet to an aero spoke.
I have this set up on two bikes for the last two years with no failings. Just one small unit sitting on the non drive chain stay not an ugly piece of plastic on the crank or hub!


----------



## apn (Mar 1, 2012)

tigerleghorn said:


> GSC10 Every time for me. It's cleaner on the bike when you use a high strength Neodymium disc magnet which sits in the recess of the pedal spindle hole (no unsightly cable ties on the crank)


I've used the exact same setup on a couple of road bikes for the last few years (even bought a few spare $1 rare earth magnets) and had no issues whatsoever. Exception is that instead of using a spoke magnet, I get speed from the GPS head unit.

Recently setup a dedicated trainer bike and needed a speed/cadence sensor. I robbed a GSC10/magnet from one of the road bikes and replaced it with the new magnet-less cadence-only sensor. So far, so good.


----------

