# Pro Salaries



## tron (Jul 18, 2004)

I was just reading the Chris Horner article on Cyclingnews and he was talking about how other guys in the peloton made 2-3 times more than he did. Now I am curious, does anyone know how much some of these guys make per year? Not even the top guys but someone like Karpets or Julich?


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

tron said:


> I was just reading the Chris Horner article on Cyclingnews and he was talking about how other guys in the peloton made 2-3 times more than he did. Now I am curious, does anyone know how much some of these guys make per year? Not even the top guys but someone like Karpets or Julich?



Not a clue. Info must be out there somewhere. Anybody? 

But I have a feeling many of their salaries will not be the same next year with all the upheavals and team disbanding. Perhaps we'll see Mr. Horner working graveyards at the Putt-Putt Golf, in the off-season. We'll just _see_ if he can get the little yellow ball into that...


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

I know the minimum protour salary is around 50,000 euros a year.

I think Jorg Jaksche detailed his salaries throughout his career in his recent doping admissions. He was a rider of that caliber and I think he was making low six figures 150-250,000 euros a year. I think you could find more info on cyclingnews if you check out that interview with JJ.


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

there's a bit about Lanids and Zabriskie's perhaps surprising claimed salaries on <a href="http://boulderreport.bicycling.com/2006/10/scared_yet.html">this</a> archived entry from joe lindseys blog.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

check out the link below for some details http://veloptimum.net/Velop/documents/salairesCoureurs.html

Cycling has still got to be one of the worst paying pro sports especially considering the amount of work it requires.


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## Tugboat (Jul 17, 2006)

From what I've heard the vast majority make a pretty average living. Not peanuts, but nowhere near to what baseball or football players are getting in the top leagues. 

A small minority, (perhaps 10 - 12 riders) are making decent money over say half a million a year.


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## echo77 (Mar 12, 2007)

Cycle Sport America - March 2007 has an article about the top cycling salaries. It lists the top 16 riders and their reported 2007 salaries from #1 - Valverde $3.8 million USD to # 16 - Michael Boogerd $975,000.

I coud list them if you're interested.


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## Saltybiker (Jun 14, 2007)

I am interested echo..........


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

echo77 said:


> Cycle Sport America - March 2007 has an article about the top cycling salaries. It lists the top 16 riders and their reported 2007 salaries from #1 - Valverde $3.8 million USD to # 16 - Michael Boogerd $975,000.
> 
> I coud list them if you're interested.


Holy crap I think I want to marry one. Gimme that list.


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## echo77 (Mar 12, 2007)

Here's the list from Cycle Sport Mag. (all salaries in US dollars) 

#1 - Valverde - $3.8 million 
#2 - Bettini - $3.2
#3. - Boonen - $2.6
#4 - Petaachi - $2.2
_#5 - Basso - $2 million_ Remember this was last March!
#6 - Cunego -$1.8
_#7 - Vinokourov $1.7_ See above!
#8 - McEwen - $1.6
#9 - Hushovd - $1.3
#10 - Zabel - $1.6 (Strange that they list #9 & 10 in reverse order!!!!)
Others listed as
Popovych - $1.3
Kloden - $1.3
Evans - $1.3
Savoldelli - $1 million
Freire - $1 million
Boogerd - $975,000


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## Saltybiker (Jun 14, 2007)

Thanks


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## Old_school_nik (May 21, 2002)

*Those are salries not including sponsors right?*

I wonder if those include incentives such as for winning big races or placing in TDF etc...


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

That list of 16 is about what I would expect given that time frame. I can't think of a big rider that isn't there in the top 16.

Kinda surprised...no, make that way surprised that Bettini makes more than Boonen. On a Belgian team no less.


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## Kestreljr (Jan 10, 2007)

Einsturzende said:


> That list of 16 is about what I would expect given that time frame. I can't think of a big rider that isn't there in the top 16.
> 
> Kinda surprised...no, make that way surprised that Bettini makes more than Boonen. On a Belgian team no less.


This list probably doesn't included incentives. Boonen could have opted for less up front, and more perks for his wins.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Popo makes decent money and is a great rider for sure.

I bet Alberto would earn more now. 

So popo is the best paid Disco rider and yet he's still a domestique, who despite the duties, gets in good GC performances each year.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

*Domestic pros...*

And "pros."

Many "professionals" on domestic teams are paid a salary of $0 (Zero Dollars). They get a bike, some kit, and if they're lucky they have a double-occupancy hotel room at the race rather than everyone sharing one bathroom in someone's basement.

A friend is a fourth-year domestic professional on a well-known US pro team. He's a domestique-ish rider. His salary is in the neighborhood of what a full-time, minimum wage employee would make. He also got 2 full bikes to keep, one of which he'll be able to sell at the end of the season for a couple of G. He supplements that income by working at a bike shop in the off-season, and getting a share of some prize money.

Another dude is a mid-level rider on one of the US's largest teams. He tells me riders on his team at his level made a net salary of about $40,000-$50,000, but that was largely because of the team's bonus structure.

The two of them tell me that the top 10 riders in the US peloton make about $100,000 total, maybe a bit more.

American MLB baseball's *minimum *wage -- for those who didn't even PLAY -- is about $325,000


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

Argentius, they do pay for a good chunk of a rider's expenses, right?

Making nothing is a bit more reasonable if you get all your bike related stuff free and they compensate you for driving to races and meals while you're racing. Still a pretty tough lifestyle...


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Yeah, they transport you, feed you, etc., when you're at races. Most of the younger guys cut out a lot of expenses by not having rent -- they live mostly on the road in-season, and with their folks in the off-season.

The big thing they don't pay for that a pro cyclist might need is health insurance, with the exception of 2 major teams that are sponsored by health insurance companies! One of the above-mentioned riders rides for one of them, and gets free insurance as part of his benefits; that's worth several thousand dollars at least.


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

SilasCL said:


> Argentius, they do pay for a good chunk of a rider's expenses, right?
> 
> Making nothing is a bit more reasonable if you get all your bike related stuff free and they compensate you for driving to races and meals while you're racing. Still a pretty tough lifestyle...


Watch the Net Zero DVD. One of them even paid his own way to Downers. - TF


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Yeah, it's a good one.

PS, the "Net Zero DVD" is called "The Hard Road," if you're interested. I think Netflix even has it.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

I saw it, pretty good look at the domestic scene, but I forgot some of the details.


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

A friend who is a domestic pro doesn't have it easy.

As far as I know, he is given a bike and riding clothes, most (but not all) travel expenses. He lives with his parents when not riding, in a bus when he is traveling with the team, no insurance, and makes ~$30k/yr including his part time job at a LBS.

He did win some money at last year's Tour of Elk Grove due to his teammate placing in the money.


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## tron (Jul 18, 2004)

At first glance I thought that the salaries were pretty good for the Euro pros, but then they probably dont sign long contracts and it is probably pretty low compared to say soccer players there when it seems like a pretty popular sport (in Europe).


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## snowman3 (Jul 20, 2002)

SilasCL said:


> Argentius, they do pay for a good chunk of a rider's expenses, right?
> 
> Making nothing is a bit more reasonable if you get all your bike related stuff free and they compensate you for driving to races and meals while you're racing. Still a pretty tough lifestyle...


Yeah, I'd say the "minor leagues" of cycling have it pretty rough. The big boys do OK on base salary (and I'd assume they do very well when prize money and sponsortship is thrown in). 

The big unknown is how much re-imbursement do the low/middle guys really get? You'd think insurance would be included since the teams would have them working w/ trainers and doctors like crazy anyhow. Probably comp'd most meals, housing, travel, etc.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

For domestic (American) pros -- Insurance is not typically included. The teams don't have them working with trainers or doctors or anything like that. It's all up to the riders. Sometimes the whole team will have one masseur / soigneur / whatev with them, sometimes not.

There isn't a lot of "reimbursement" going on -- for the riders selected to participate in particular events, the team pays to fly or drive them wherever, then works out housing, figures out main meals, etc. Sometimes it works efficiently, sometimes not.

One of my pro buddies went from California to Michigan in his mechanics' van for a race, for instance, but he didn't have to chip in for gas or anything! Then he lived in host housing for the michigan race for a couple weeks, then went somewhere else. Two of his teammates camped out in a camper thingee owned by someone that knew someone for a week at another major stage race. This is the type of camper that can be attached atop the bed of a pickup, rather than towed...


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2007)

Well, cycling isn't getting huge (if any) money from TV rights like the NFL or MLB. Those leagues are raking in billions for a season and hence the teams can pay well. (one advantage other sports have is a game isn't 5-8 hours long)

IIRC, a Pro Tour rider must be paid at least 30K (Euro). At least you make a 'living' wage if you make it onto a Pro Tour team.


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## gonzaleziam (May 14, 2007)

Everyone needs to stop their crying. None of these cyclists had a gun to their head and were told to ride or else. These guys are doing it because they love it. They know what to expect. This is the temporary life they chose. Temporary, because who has seen a 50 y/o in the TDF winning. I have a friend who was a Cat1 racer. He could of chose to continue to race but he wanted a better lifestyle. So sue him. Seriously, stop the whinning.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

lighten up, I don't see a lot of whining going on, just some discussion about a legit question. The economic side of cycling isn't very well known, and if you haven't noticed this is a discussion board so if people talking about pro salaries bugs you either don't read or go somewhere else. What's wrong with noting that pro salaries are pretty low? On the bright side, I guess low enough that most pros would have to be independently wealthy to afford a Fuentes style supplementation program.


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## king of Norway (Jan 10, 2002)

i heard the dropoff from the top (say top 20) is pretty steep..i also heard that the spanish riders are notoriously paid low salaries..about 2 years ago i recall 2 fairly well known spanish riders quiting the profession to become: 1. a policeman in his local village due to the pay, and 2. a student going back to school to be graphic designer..i seem to recall that these guys were riding in the tour/vuelta and making about 30-40k at most.


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## danielc (Oct 24, 2002)

echo77 said:


> Here's the list from Cycle Sport Mag. (all salaries in US dollars)
> 
> #1 - Valverde - $3.8 million
> #2 - Bettini - $3.2
> ...



wow, i can't believe Popo is making $1.3. Levi's not even on that list? In Floyd's book, he talks about how we was making around $30K on a domestic pro team but then made $60K when he got signed to Postal. In one of the Tours, in his later years with the team I think he got $90K for being on the Tour winning team and a Lance bonus of $40K! Not bad for 3 weeks of riding huh? Makes sense why someone would want to make sure they got on to Lance's tour team even if it mean taking EPO a la Andreau.


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## stig (Sep 13, 2005)

Prize money is not part of this equation?

I had a buddy who raced on a small Belgian Kermesse team. His salary was puny, but was topped up by money from prizes/primes.


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## tron (Jul 18, 2004)

stevesbike said:


> lighten up, I don't see a lot of whining going on, just some discussion about a legit question. The economic side of cycling isn't very well known, and if you haven't noticed this is a discussion board so if people talking about pro salaries bugs you either don't read or go somewhere else. What's wrong with noting that pro salaries are pretty low? On the bright side, I guess low enough that most pros would have to be independently wealthy to afford a Fuentes style supplementation program.


Or maybe a reason for them to get into the fuentes style supplementation program to get into that top 20 for the bigger salaries.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Argentius said:


> And "pros."
> 
> Many "professionals" on domestic teams are paid a salary of $0 (Zero Dollars). They get a bike, some kit, and if they're lucky they have a double-occupancy hotel room at the race rather than everyone sharing one bathroom in someone's basement.
> 
> ...


You wonder why? Huh, lets' see...how many people come to watch these guys race? Corporate money? Television deals? I am sure you understand that right?

I wouldn't mind making $100,000 a year to ride a bike if hotels, traveling expenses and meals were paid by the team. Would you complain?

I think $75K wouldn't be so bad either.

Problem is cycling is this country is not considerd a "sport" and their is not real support for it. Maybe in the future, but I doubt it will ever get close to what it's like in Europe.

If there is no money, then no big pay days.

But ook at guys in A, AA and AAA is baseball and see what they make as Professionals. No much and these guys take a bus ride everywhere.

A guy I worked with was in the AA team for St Loius for a few years. He made $45K to play baseball and benefits. Think he was complaining? 

NOPE!


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## j3fri (Dec 31, 2006)

soccer has tv rights,many people pay to watch them on tv... and they have stadiums,fans pay money to watch them live...

cycling is free if u watch live and not much tv coverage.... its really sad tat pro cyclist salary in general is rather low compare to lets say EPL soccer players... and cycling train a lot harder than soccer.. soccer is a 90 mins game while cycling up to 6hrs++ 

so unfair...


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## ktm882 (Aug 14, 2007)

Woooow,
I sure can pick my sports huh. I was a motocross fan then racer for near 20 years and watched that sport pay Americans squat. Then Supercross came and viewership (ie corporate bucks) rose dramatically. Guess what ? Now European World Champions say their goal is to race in America cos now guys here are making milions if not hundreds of thousands a year. Seems like cycling is the opposite, Americans are going to Europe cos thats where the big money is. Crazy thing is both of these sports are the damn hardest things I have ever done or played and the sissy ball sports that most people CAN play are making even bigger bucks than our Pros who bust ass much more are making.

*"Baseball: the cure for insomnia"*


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## maddog (Feb 26, 2004)

Argentius said:


> American MLB baseball's *minimum *wage -- for those who didn't even PLAY -- is about $325,000


to play Devil's advocate - is the domestic racing scene "major league" - should we be comparing these guys to MLB players or to minor leaguers?


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

maddog said:


> to play Devil's advocate - is the domestic racing scene "major league" - should we be comparing these guys to MLB players or to minor leaguers?


In the US - keep going. Even the local AHL hockey games have way more fans than I've seen at Downers for the US Criterium Championships - and you have to pay to watch the Wolves. - TF


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## Guest (Aug 19, 2007)

TurboTurtle said:


> In the US - keep going. Even the local AHL hockey games have way more fans than I've seen at Downers for the US Criterium Championships - and you have to pay to watch the Wolves. - TF


Too bad an 85 mile crit (just throwing a number out there) won't fit inside an ice rink :idea:


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

AJL said:


> Too bad an 85 mile crit (just throwing a number out there) won't fit inside an ice rink :idea:


Well, there are two velodromes within an hour of my house. Attendance there makes road racing look downright popular. - TF


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## Fredke (Dec 10, 2004)

Argentius said:


> For domestic (American) pros -- Insurance is not typically included.


Not just domestic Americans. Same is true os many top international teams. Ryan Cox (Barloworld) died a couple of weeks ago, in part because he checked himself out of hospital prematurely after vascular surgery in order to save money because Barloworld didn't provide insurance and he had to borrow the money for the operation from Robbie Hunter.


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## Fredke (Dec 10, 2004)

TurboTurtle said:


> Well, there are two velodromes within an hour of my house. Attendance there makes road racing look downright popular. - TF


It's well worth watching the 6-day DVD (http://www.sixdaybicyclerace.com/) for a lot of fascinating history of the days when velodromes were more popular than baseball fields or hockey rinks. The movie tells all about how the sport grew in popularity and then faded. There's some great footage of the greats from the 1920s and 30s and interviews with many old timers.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

danielc said:


> wow, i can't believe Popo is making $1.3. Levi's not even on that list? In Floyd's book, he talks about how we was making around $30K on a domestic pro team but then made $60K when he got signed to Postal. In one of the Tours, in his later years with the team I think he got $90K for being on the Tour winning team and a Lance bonus of $40K! Not bad for 3 weeks of riding huh? Makes sense why someone would want to make sure they got on to Lance's tour team even if it mean taking EPO a la Andreau.


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/sports/playmagazine/0819play-floyd.html?pagewanted=7&_r=1

Landis and Amber bought it in 2003, when Landis was making $215,000 a year riding for Lance Armstrong's United States Postal Service team.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Exactly....Hence the conflict tween ASO and UCI*



AJL said:


> Well, cycling isn't getting huge (if any) money from TV rights like the NFL or MLB. .


The UCI asked the large tours to distribute part of their TV earnings to the racers. The Tours have cried bloody murder and now we have the war between the two as a result.


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

dagger said:


> The UCI asked the large tours to distribute part of their TV earnings to the racers. The Tours have cried bloody murder and now we have the war between the two as a result.


Part of it does go to the racers - the prize money. It is the UCI that currently doesn't get a cut and wants some. I'm over-simplifying, but then so are you. - TF


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

Fredke said:


> Not just domestic Americans. Same is true os many top international teams. Ryan Cox (Barloworld) died a couple of weeks ago, in part because he checked himself out of hospital prematurely after vascular surgery in order to save money because Barloworld didn't provide insurance and he had to borrow the money for the operation from Robbie Hunter.


"Employee" or "Independent Contractor?"

Does anyone have any idea whether domestic pros are "employees" or "independent contractors?" If they are "employees" they should be covered by workers' compensation laws for injuries that they receive on the job. I was looking at the USCF and UCI websites. The UCI allows the national federation to dictate the standard rider contract, but has certain guidelines. One of them states: "Ensure that social protection measures for riders and other employees are in place." I looked but could not find the USCF's standard contract. Does anyone know that it says? I have some familiarity the the NFL and NHL standard player contracts. I would find it interesting to compare the standard cycling contract with those is higher revenue/higher pay sports. 

Although health insurance is expensive, I think that it is penny wise and pound foolish for a pro team not to have health insurance for its riders. If someone gets seriously hurt and is not covered by insurance, he is going to look to sue someone to have his bills paid. Now, the standard contract may have all kinds of releases and other provisions that would make a suit difficult to win. But, from an employer's perspective, the last thing that you want is to have is an employees who has his back to the wall because he has medical bills that he cannot pay.

Insofar as Ryan Cox (and other pros in Europe who are not citizens of a EU country), it is my understanding that he fell through the cracks of the Eurpoean social security net. If he had been an EU naitonal, then his medical bills would have been covered under a national health system. It is somewhat understandible that a European-based team might not be attentive to health insurance issues because most riders will be covered by their country's national health system. But, US based teams don't have that excuse.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Fredke said:


> and he had to borrow the money for the operation from Robbie Hunter.


I guess RH won't be seeing any money returned.


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## ktm882 (Aug 14, 2007)

If the UCI is like the AMA, American Motorcycle Assoc. they are the real culprits who have fingers too deep into the pros pockets to begin with and always want more. I am a journalist for Pro motocross and have seen stacks of cash, upwards of 250K guarded by State Troopers. If it costs apromotoer 30 grand for all of the staff, medical and ambulance rentals for teh 3 days, thats a lot. The prize money to the racers come from the sponosrs whose banners line the track. How come first place at a national is the same as it was almost 30 years ago (6500). Promoters are crooks.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

*Contractors, I think.*

I am 90%, but not 100%, sure that they are contractors. In looking into the wonderful wide world of US pro cyclists, I asked a few about health care issues, since injuries come with the job!

I was told that workers' compensation didn't cover them, and that most teams did not provide insurance for their riders. This same rider had offers from 2 teams that season, and had selected a team precisely because (or at least in part because) their team included insurance, while the other did not. That was because the team was sponsored by an insurance company...



MarkS said:


> "Employee" or "Independent Contractor?"
> 
> Does anyone have any idea whether domestic pros are "employees" or "independent contractors?" If they are "employees" that should be covered by workers' compensation laws for injuries that they receive on the job. I was looking at the USCF and UCI websites. The UCI allows the national federation to dictate the standard rider contract, but has certain guidelines. One of them states: "Ensure that social protection measures for riders and other employees are in place." I looked but could not find the USCF's standard contract. Does anyone know that it says? I have come familiarity the the NFL and NHL standard player contracts. I would find it interesting to compare the standard cycling contract with those is higher revenue/higher pay sports.
> 
> ...


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

Argentius said:


> I am 90%, but not 100%, sure that they are contractors. . . .
> 
> I was told that workers' compensation didn't cover them, . . .


I suspected that the teams would take the position that the riders are "independent contractors." There is a game that employers play where they try to classify employees as "independent contractors" so that they do not have to pay for things that the law mandates for employees, like workers' compensation insurance and FICA. The courts (and the IRS) look to a variety of factors to determine whether an "independent contractor" is an "employee" for legal purposes or not. The analysis is very fact-specific, but I would think that a rider for a domestic pro team would have a pretty good argument that he is an "employee" that should be covered by workers' compensation insurance rather that his being an "independent contractor." That being said, if I were a rider I would not want to fight that battle from my hospital bed. The rider that you knew that took the offer with health insurance over the one without health insurance definitely made the right choice.


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## CaseLawZ28 (Jul 14, 2005)

On the contrary, I would classify a rider as an "employee" - at least in the team where there is an amount of professionalism and dictation of duties by a DS or other management figure. Where the team is really comprised of cyclists throwing on the kit, and racing the race how they choose, then I would lean towards "independent contractor."

Generally, the less control an individual has over their execution of duties and how to perform and in what manner, the more likely they are to be considered an "employee." My guess is that riders are not free to choose how they run their race, where and when they race, however they choose. Instead, the real control is with management. The team manager selects who will be racing, when, and where for each race. The team manager also sits in the team car and gives directions during the race as to how to race. Just because the general conception of what a cyclist is may group them as "employee," does not mean that all riders are "employees." It's a case-by-case, factual basis.


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## CaseLawZ28 (Jul 14, 2005)

MarkS said:


> I suspected that the teams would take the position that the riders are "independent contractors." There is a game that employers play where they try to classify employees as "independent contractors" so that they do not have to pay for things that the law mandates for employees, like workers' compensation insurance and FICA. The courts (and the IRS) look to a variety of factors to determine whether an "independent contractor" is an "employee" for legal purposes or not. The analysis is very fact-specific, but I would think that a rider for a domestic pro team would have a pretty good argument that he is an "employee" that should be covered by workers' compensation insurance rather that his being an "independent contractor." That being said, if I were a rider I would not want to fight that battle from my hospital bed. The rider that you knew that took the offer with health insurance over the one without health insurance definitely made the right choice.


Yea. What I was saying. Every team will say "independent contractor!" But what the contract says or the parties intended (if for example they intended to say he was an independent contractor to avoid WC liability) does not control - it's all factual as you posted immediately before me.


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

CaseLawZ28 said:


> Yea. What I was saying. Every team will say "independent contractor!" But what the contract says or the parties intended (if for example they intended to say he was an independent contractor to avoid WC liability) does not control - it's all factual as you posted immediately before me.



Great minds think alike. Or, it might just be that the two of us actually have looked at a few law books. Not that I want to turn this in to a public service ad for my favorite profession, but it sometimes amazes me what some employers will say (and may actually believe) that is totally contrary to what the law requires when it comes to the compensation and legal treatment of their employees.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

MarkS said:


> Great minds think alike. Or, it might just be that the two of us actually have looked at a few law books. Not that I want to turn this in to an public service ad for my favorite profession, but it sometimes amazes me what some employers will say (and may actually believe) that is totally contrary to what the law requires when it comes to the compensation and legal treatment of their employees.


riders, or for most of the protour guys their LLC's, are independent contractors. IN additional most can be cut at any time.


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## Fredke (Dec 10, 2004)

MarkS said:


> Insofar as Ryan Cox (and other pros in Europe who are not citizens of a EU country), it is my understanding that he fell through the cracks of the Eurpoean social security net. If he had been an EU naitonal, then his medical bills would have been covered under a national health system. It is somewhat understandible that a European-based team might not be attentive to health insurance issues because most riders will be covered by their country's national health system. But, US based teams don't have that excuse.


Barloworld is not a European-based team. It's based in South Africa, so Cox did not fall through some obscure crack. He was a South African national, living in South Africa, working for a South African team.


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## Fredke (Dec 10, 2004)

Argentius said:


> I am 90%, but not 100%, sure that they are contractors.


Here's the law in California:_*Professional Athlete

*__An athlete is an employee or an independent contractor depending upon the sport involved and the terms of the contract under which he/she performs.

In team sports, such as football and baseball, where the player competes under the direction and control of a coach or manager, he/she is an employee. On the other hand, in individual sports competition, such as golf or tennis, where the athlete is normally free to determine his/her own style and manner of performing, he/she is an independent contractor.

To differentiate between athletes who are employees and those considered to be independent contractors, the Board, in Tax Decision 2363, said:__"Among the sports in which the participating athletes have been considered to be employees are football, baseball, basketball, and hockey. Among those in which they have been considered not to be employees are golf, boxing, wrestling, skating, and midget auto racing.

In the first group of cases above, there was generally an owner, manager, trainer, coach, or captain who had the right to direct and control the details of the player's activity. In contrast, in the second group of cases, the sport was generally one that involved athletic competition between individuals rather than teams."_ ​ So it sounds as though in CA, pro cyclists would be employees.


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## JohnnyTooBad (Apr 5, 2004)

Sounds like employees to me too. If they were ICs, wouldn't they have the right to ride for any team that would let them? For example, you ride for Disco, but they won't let you ride the TdF. If you were an IC, you could go to FDJ and put on their kit and ride the TdF with their team if they agreed to it, and Disco wouldn't have a say in the matter.


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

Fredke said:


> Barloworld is not a European-based team. It's based in South Africa, so Cox did not fall through some obscure crack. He was a South African national, living in South Africa, working for a South African team.


Barolworld is a South African company, but Team Barloworld is based in the UK and is part of the UCI's Europe tour. http://www.uci.ch/ucinet/uci.asp?pa...mscategory=eur&teamstype=ctm&ryear=2007&l=eng. The team is in an analogous position to Team CSC, which is sponsored by a US company, but is registered in Denmark.

All of that being said, it does not excuse the team's not thinking about issues like health insurance for non-Euro riders. This is not the first time that a rider's non-Euro citizenship has been an issue for a European team. Remember Christian Vande Velde's visa problems when he joined Liberty Seguros? http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/5710.0.html


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## litespeedchick (Sep 9, 2003)

Silly, since the penalties are fairly severe for misclassifying an employee. If the IRS judges you picked wrong, they can assess not only the employer's portion of FICA, the the employee's as well. I'm not sure, but I think it could have an unfortunate impact on the status of the employer's various qualified plans.


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## nrspeed (Jan 28, 2005)

What really matters is what the contract between the team and states. 
Here is a link to the UCI model contract which speaks in employer/employee terms. 
//http://www.usacycling.org/forms/uci/model_contract.pdf

http://www.usacycling.org/forms/uci/model_contract.pdf


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## ktm882 (Aug 14, 2007)

Google the names David Bailey and Danny "Magoo" Chandler. 
These two are iconic motocross legends, former Honda US factory riders, and both were paralyzed during the height of their careers and would've suffered financial ruin had it not been for the generosity of the racing community in general. 
Honda has yet to pay a dime towards these injured warriors and they have complained loudly and often with no change in the situations. The guys who helped build their hand built motocross bikes were employees, David and Danny were 'contractors' and were never given medical insurance or advice on such matters. 
I am new to cycling and shocked at the Ryan Cox incident...that is a total disgrace this young man had to lose his life over a stupid situation.


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## Fredke (Dec 10, 2004)

MarkS said:


> Barolworld is a South African company, but Team Barloworld is based in the UK and is part of the UCI's Europe tour. http://www.uci.ch/ucinet/uci.asp?page=Teams&discipline=ROA&continent=eur&teamscategory=eur&teamstype=ctm&ryear=2007&l=eng. The team is in an analogous position to Team CSC, which is sponsored by a US company, but is registered in Denmark.
> 
> All of that being said, it does not excuse the team's not thinking about issues like health insurance for non-Euro riders. This is not the first time that a rider's non-Euro citizenship has been an issue for a European team. Remember Christian Vande Velde's visa problems when he joined Liberty Seguros? http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/5710.0.html


Thanks for the clarification and correction of my mistake.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

It appears we are trying to put the small world of cycling in the macro box of US/euro employment law. 

I have read a bunch of pro contracts, they are almost all the same. Independent contractors. The bigger guys also have annexes that deal with Image rights etc.

As for what they make, a few years ago the Pro tour minimum was 27K euros. Now I think it is around 35K. Prize money is not as much as you think and often the teams do not aggressively try to collect from the event organizers so it can take a while for that to get disputed.....it also gets divided amongst all the riders and sometime support staff. A domestic pro would be lucky to make $1k per month and most make nothing. Lastly most of the contracts are not set in stone, they can drop you at any time.


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## Slartibartfast (Jul 22, 2007)

A little off-topic, but related. This is from Saturday's Cyclingnews:

_"On a more positive note, the statement congratulated the owners of the Caisse d'Epargne team, Abarca Sports, who held enough insurance on its riders to allow the widow of deceased rider Isaac Gálvez, who perished during the Gent Six Day, "to receive the lump sum of 550,000 Euro following her husband's death."_ :thumbsup:


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

bigpinkt said:


> It appears we are trying to put the small world of cycling in the macro box of US/euro employment law.
> 
> I have read a bunch of pro contracts, they are almost all the same. Independent contractors. The bigger guys also have annexes that deal with Image rights etc.
> 
> As for what they make, a few years ago the Pro tour minimum was 27K euros. Now I think it is around 35K. Prize money is not as much as you think and often the teams do not aggressively try to collect from the event organizers so it can take a while for that to get disputed.....it also gets divided amongst all the riders and sometime support staff. A domestic pro would be lucky to make $1k per month and most make nothing. Lastly most of the contracts are not set in stone, they can drop you at any time.


Well, in which box should we put domestic, US pro cycling?

I guess that I started this thread hijack by my initial response to Argentius' comment that some teams do not provice health insurance for their riders. Most US jurisdictions have very few requirements that employers must follow with respect their employees (unlike many European countries). For example, most employees in the United States are "at will" employees, which means that they can be fired at any time for any or no reason (other than an illegal one, such as race or sex or age discrimination). But, at a minimum an employer must provide workers' compensation insurance and pay the employer's portion of FICA. There are lots of employers out there who try to evade even these minimal requirements by calling their employees independent contractors. I don't doubt what you say about pro contractors is correct. But, what the employer calls an employee is irrelevant. If someone fits within the fact specific test for whether someone is an employee, the person is an employee no matter what the employee's contract may say.. More than one employer that has played the game has learned after the fact that there can be severe consequences.

All of us are saying the same thing, but in different ways. The bottom line is that pro cycling largely is a low paying job with few employee benefits. One significant difference between the situation of a Euro pro and a US pro is that the Euro pro will have a social safety net (e.g., national health insurance) that a US pro will not have. That is an important thing for any worker, but is especially significant for a worker in an industry where injuries are common.


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## ktm882 (Aug 14, 2007)

Three words for this situation.

UUU NEEE ON!

Pro cycling needs one as bad as ever.


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## Fredke (Dec 10, 2004)

ktm882 said:


> Three words for this situation.
> 
> UUU NEEE ON!
> 
> Pro cycling needs one as bad as ever.


They've got one: http://www.cpasite.org/index_en.html


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## ktm882 (Aug 14, 2007)

Hmm,

CPA website seems on the up and up, rider reps all seem credible. I think the reason salaries are too low is the public viewership. Unlike an mx race, no one pays to spectate a cycling event. Supercross, which brought motocross to many more people-which in turn helped the outdoor motocross grow as well, can be a model for cycle racing. Maybe we (USA) need to invent and promote a stadium version of cycle racing that can complement the "outdoor" racing series and riders. I have seen motocross grow from where cycling is today to where even fans who dont ride know who Ricky Carmichael and James Stewart and Travis Pastrana are. While these guys are awesome riders in incredible shape, neither of them would beat ANYONE on the Pro cycling tour... A Pro cyclist with good motorcycle skills would likely easily qualify for an mx national.

I hope someone with the clout, know how, desire, resources, initiative and connections takes this idea seriously. = 

Any takers out there. Email me at [email protected]
Mike


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## Fredke (Dec 10, 2004)

ktm882 said:


> Maybe we (USA) need to invent and promote a stadium version of cycle racing that can complement the "outdoor" racing series and riders.


Umm, in the 1920s stadium cycle racing was the biggest professional sport in the country. Bigger than baseball. Bigger than football. It's still going on, but after WWII, neither the public nor the media has paid much attention to it.

Rent or buy the documentary "Six Day Bicycle Race: America's Jazz-Age Sport" for an excellent view of the rise and fall of pro cycling in the US.


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## ktm882 (Aug 14, 2007)

I an a vidiot so I will prolly buy the DVD. 
The advent of mechanized racing sports likely helped the demise. Thats about when scrambles and stock car racing took off. All the fighter pilots of WW2 needed adrenalline rushes, not so much inner challenges which is what cycling represents. Part of what held motocross back was the difficulty of the sport for the avg. preson. Cycling is the same way. A newbie goes and buys a bike, after a couple of heavy sessions they decide it hurts too much and the thing becomes an expensive paperweight. 
Indoor stadium racing made mx a spectator sport universally. Outdoor racing will always have the purists, guys like us/anyone in here that would stand in the rain to see Pros racing. We need the new blood to get in, buy the products, keep on riding and get the joy out of it. How hard is baseball or golf...c'mon, gimme a break. They need skills, they are not HARD to do that why millions of balls and clubs and such get sold. 
We could also take a hint from NASCAR, the 'whuahs' (did I say that?) of sports media and promotions to attract and use stars from other sports to show the world how awesome OUR cycling Pros are. 
Ricky Carmichael is signed to race stock cars on a p/t basis this year while winding out his motocross career, NASCAR teams have folded or cut it half to start motocross teams. 

They basically took MX's biggest star and made him a NASCAR guy. Every motocross racer from Amatuer to Pro uses a bicycle to train in some degree. 
It's a wide open field people (bike makers, race promoters, sponsors etc)
Mike
[email protected]


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## snowman3 (Jul 20, 2002)

gonzaleziam said:


> Everyone needs to stop their crying. ... Seriously, stop the whinning.


I don't think anyone was really crying or whining... but I'll go ahead and start.

Dang! After reading all these posts, it sucks to be a cyclist! IMHO its not worth it. Too much work and not enough pay. You'd have to REALLY like riding a bike to get into that line of work professionally.


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## Jokull (Aug 13, 2007)

ktm882 said:


> Maybe we (USA) need to invent and promote a stadium version of cycle racing that can complement the "outdoor" racing series and riders.


What you're thinking about is something like this: http://www.cyclingrevolution.com/files/event.htm which has been very successful in the UK


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## gormleyflyer2002 (Sep 12, 2005)

*not a chance*

KTM.......
I'll give you 1000:1 odds.......not a snowballs chance in hell, even with 3years to practise and a factory bike would any pro cyclist qualify for an MX National......trust me. Anyone who has raced at this level would know why this is not close to possible. 10th place might get you a few thousand......go check and see what 40th at and AMA national pays, you just qualified to drive across the country and sleep in your truck to do it all over again next weekend.

Cycling is in fact just like MX, lots of media, print and TV deals but very little of the cash finds it's way into the riders pockets unless your Top 30 in the world.
Fact 
1/ the top guys make huge coin, 
2/ the promoters rape everyone 
3/ most pro's and their families starve.

What happend to that Barloworld rider is just so very wrong...!! It's hard to imagine that it was handled the way it was reported. ..very sad.

ps, RC will likely not ever make it into a CUP car race.....now Travis, that SOB can drive.

cheers, 



ktm882 said:


> Hmm,
> "A Pro cyclist with good motorcycle skills would likely easily qualify for an mx national."


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## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

SilasCL said:


> I know the minimum protour salary is around 50,000 euros a year.
> 
> I think Jorg Jaksche detailed his salaries throughout his career in his recent doping admissions. He was a rider of that caliber and I think he was making low six figures 150-250,000 euros a year. I think you could find more info on cyclingnews if you check out that interview with JJ.


incorrect. 

your guess is off by 15,000 to 20,000€. it's more like 30,000€ a year.


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