# Superb Article on Road Bikes & Hydraulic Brakes (Pros and SOme Serious Cons...)



## Scott in MD (Jun 24, 2008)

Article written by experienced cyclist with insight from major OEMs ..... after a severe crash on road bike hydraulic disc failure! Objective and enlightening ... as close to a "must read" as I can offer my RBR bike buddies....



Road Bike Disc Brakes Are Coming, But Will They Work? - Bike Rumor


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

This article was shared and discussed in the Red Hydraulic section. I will leave it as, the guy was a moron, used the wrong equipment, mismatched parts and admitted this. Even admitted user error.

How about the insights from OEM on cable failures?


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## Scott in MD (Jun 24, 2008)

Wow ... I thought this was pretty objective ... didn't interpret that author blamed his accident on his brakes ... presented a pretty straightforward state of the current technology, IMO.

I sure don't think the guy was a moron. ...


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## tigoat (Jun 6, 2006)

Scott in MD said:


> Article written by experienced cyclist with insight from major OEMs ..... after a severe crash on road bike hydraulic disc failure! Objective and enlightening ... as close to a "must read" as I can offer my RBR bike buddies....
> 
> 
> 
> Road Bike Disc Brakes Are Coming, But Will They Work? - Bike Rumor


It seems a little scary to read the article for a rider transiting to disc brakes on a road bike. Not sure what is to blame for such accident. The accident could easily be caused by rim brakes as well, as there have been many similar accidents over the years with rim brakes. I personally have a couple of close calls desending a steep hill with rim brakes. Disc brakes in general should work great for road bikes. Cars and motorcycles have been using disc brakes for ages.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

It's objective and informative, but it's also a "duh" article. Yeah, he used a brake setup not optimized for CX and not road and ran minimalist Ashima rotors at that. Then the major lesson of using bigger rotors to address heating issues...literally discussed the obvious albeit with the major manufacturers to get the point across thoroughly.


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## ddimick (Aug 9, 2011)

Some things become obvious in hindsight. Painfully so, in this case. Glad the author is ok (5 broken ribs!) and took the time to post an informative article that includes manufacturer perspectives.


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

Interesting write up.. It's a bigger issue moving forward to disks than I thought.


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## strathconaman (Jul 3, 2003)

Horsepoo.

My wife and I have a tandem with disc brakes (BB7 Road). Even loaded touring in very hilly terrain has never produced brake failure. Using disc brakes on the road isn't new, applying the weight weenie approach to road discs is.

The guy put lightweight rotors onto his bike and then dragged them down a hill. Surprise! It produced brake fade and failure. I am shocked. Too bad he didn't have dual pivot brakes and the lightest carbon wheels and tubulars he could find.

I am glad he is OK, but this is user error.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

strathconaman said:


> Horsepoo.
> 
> My wife and I have a tandem with disc brakes (BB7 Road). Even loaded touring in very hilly terrain has never produced brake failure. Using disc brakes on the road isn't new, applying the weight weenie approach to road discs is.
> 
> ...


Thank you and well said! This guys write in horse manure! No wonder SRAM or others OEN ignored him.


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## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

strathconaman said:


> Horsepoo.


Agreed. 

My daily commuter, a 2006 Trek Portland, came with BB7s and 160mm rotors front and rear. While it's not the world's best climbing bike, I took it on vacation to Colorado's Front Range in 2008 precisely for the road disk brakes on the mountain descents. 

I'm a lifelong flatlander so I'm not embarrassed to say I'm an inexperienced descender.

My very first mountain descent was Mt. Evans. It was wickedly windy that day, the road is in poor shape, and it has no guard rails. I rode the brakes pretty heavy on the descent from 14,130 feet. (Which is more altitude than I've skydived from.)










They sure didn't like it. They were howling like a banshee towards the bottom, and the rotors were warping from the heat. But they never faded and certainly never failed. After they cooled, the rotors straightened out by themselves and I checked the pads for glazing. There was none.

I put the pads back in and rode up to Peak-to-Peak Scenic Byway two days later, and back down the the plains again. A little less on the brakes this time, but still a lot more than the locals.

I agree that the Bike Rumour guy's problem was rotors. Look a those things. They're about 85%, maybe 90% air. Decorator rotors are for show bikes.

My bike came with Avid Roundagons, and that's what we rode in Colorado. Since then, I got new wheels and treated myself to Avid G3 rotors. The G3's have much better braking performance than the Roundagons, even when using the same pads. Rotors matter.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

People in long mountainous descents can suffer brake fade on even relatively large rotors. Road descents use more braking energy than even the downhill bikes they borrow brakes from (that also get brake fade on occasion).

The author isn't a moron - he says right out that what happened to him caused the article to get written, and he absolutely doesn't blame discs in general. Any other reading is frankly.... moronic.

Three very heavy bike component makes say in the article that heat is a problem in any normal sized rotor. I'm not sure how much clearer that could be.

And they also make mention of the difficulties in designing forks and wheels that can take disc braking and still ride like supple road bikes. The road market is driven by weight and ride quality - two things that are major problems for disc brake design.

There was a much more reasoned and thoughtful discussion of this article last week on the Paceline (formerly Serotta) forum. I'd recommend reading that for more insights than name calling and article skimming.


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## medimond (Apr 26, 2009)

I see it time and time again coming down the canyon (vertical drop 3000+ feet) from skiing at Alta each weekend ... it's the people that ride the brake continuously that burn their brakes up. Once it was so bad that the mini van looked like a James Bond smoke screen everytime he applied his brakes. 

The author states "I kept light pressure on the levers, dragging my brakes to keep my speed around 30mph on a very curvy, steep road." That's exactly not how to use your brakes. While I'm unable to exactly describe exact thermal dynamics involved in overheating your brakes, it has something to do with heat flux and saturating the pad to disc interface, plus not having enough heatsink to absorb the kinetic energy. Modulating the bakes would allow the pad to rotor interface to cool and energy to spread throughout the rotor.


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2012)

medimond said:


> I see it time and time again coming down the canyon (vertical drop 3000+ feet) from skiing at Alta each weekend ... it's the people that ride the brake continuously that burn their brakes up. Once it was so bad that the mini van looked like a James Bond smoke screen everytime he applied his brakes.
> 
> The author states "I kept light pressure on the levers, dragging my brakes to keep my speed around 30mph on a very curvy, steep road." That's exactly not how to use your brakes. While I'm unable to exactly describe exact thermal dynamics involved in overheating your brakes, it has something to do with heat flux and saturating the pad to disc interface, plus not having enough heatsink to absorb the kinetic energy. Modulating the bakes would allow the pad to rotor interface to cool and energy to spread throughout the rotor.


This is probably very oversimplified, but more heat will transfer from an interface such as brake rotor to the air when there bigger temperature differential between them. Lets say someone wants to maintain a certain average speed down a hill -- they can "ride" the brakes and maintain that average speed by apply a small amount of brake pressure continually, or they can modulate the brakes and dump a bunch of energy in periodic short bursts.

Bleeding the same amount of energy by hitting the brakes in short bursts should cause the temperature at the very surface of the pad to get significantly higher, since a lot more braking power (energy/time) is being applied. As a result of the high temperature difference between the rotor and air, more of this energy should get carried away by the air compared to dumping the same amount of energy into the brakes more slowly.

On the other hand, riding the brakes continuously will cause the energy to heat up the pad more gradually. Because the instantaneous temperature on the surface will be lower, heat will be more likely to remain and "soak" into the rotors and brake pads. If the entire rotor gets hot throughout, vs just the surface, that's when warping etc. may occur. 

Another issue is that even if average speed is the same modulating vs. riding the brakes, power lost due to air resistance is proportional to the cube of air speed, so more energy will be lost to simple air resistance (rather than being bled off by the brakes) when varying speed more drastically vs going at the same average speed continuously down the hill.


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## tigoat (Jun 6, 2006)

brucew: Awesome picture! Thanks!:thumbsup:


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## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

tigoat said:


> brucew: Awesome picture! Thanks!:thumbsup:


Thanks. Not bad for a lifelong lowlander and flatlander, eh? And on his everyday commuter besides.

Next time I'm out there, I'm taking my Litespeed. :thumbsup:


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## medimond (Apr 26, 2009)

PhotonFreak said:


> On the other hand, riding the brakes continuously will cause the energy to heat up the pad more gradually. Because the instantaneous temperature on the surface will be lower, heat will be more likely to remain and "soak" into the rotors and brake pads. If the entire rotor gets hot throughout, vs just the surface, that's when warping etc. may occur.
> .


Riding the brake will cause the brake pad to get saturated with energy, as it is always in contact with the rotor. The rotor on the other hand is only intermittently in contact with the pad. Applying and releasing the brakes will allow the pad interface surface to cool. The area of most concern is the pad to rotor interface as that's where the real friction action is. Loose the friction, loose your braking.


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## tigoat (Jun 6, 2006)

brucew said:


> Thanks. Not bad for a lifelong lowlander and flatlander, eh? And on his everyday commuter besides.
> 
> Next time I'm out there, I'm taking my Litespeed. :thumbsup:


hey brucew, I have just noticed the rack on your bike, is it a Tubus Logo Titan? I am looking into getting one soon and wondering if you can shed some insight about it. How about the trunk bag shown? Thanks!


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

medimond said:


> Riding the brake will cause the brake pad to get saturated with energy, as it is always in contact with the rotor. The rotor on the other hand is only intermittently in contact with the pad. Applying and releasing the brakes will allow the pad interface surface to cool. The area of most concern is the pad to rotor interface as that's where the real friction action is. Loose the friction, loose your braking.


Articles I've seen about car racing raise doubts with this theory. In the end, energy is energy, and expecting a braking program to prevent fade for average consumers is not a solution - the variable rate of cooling does not mean that the total thermal threshold for fade isn't going to be exceeded whether you maintain a speed or accelerate and crash brake repeatedly. Once you go above that number, no brakes. 

Compared to the thermal load of a rim (the biggest rotor) and a sacrificial pad, brake fade on discs is a bigger problem.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

*Seriously?*

Who would use those rotors?  They look more like a strip of wire than a brake rotor.










Makes me think of someone cutting their Record brake pads in half to make them lighter and then whining about Campagnolo having poor braking.


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## Nicole Hamilton (Sep 5, 2010)

Great link. Thank you,

I've been spending the last couple years thinking carefully about what I wanted in a new bike. I'm convinced that electronic derailleurs and disk brakes are definitely the future for road bikes. But while the former are here, the latter are not. This article lays out all the reasons I ended up deciding that if I wanted a road bike with disk brakes, I'd have to wait another two years or so. At 61, I don't really want to do that.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

I like innovation, probalby a little too much. But disc brakes for road bikes that are intended to be racy seem like a solution in search of a problem.
And a solution that needs a lot more work. There are significant drag issues that seem almost insurmountable unless you want to give up 5 or 10 watts right off the top, and this sounds like unless you go for hefty discs, forget about it. So a drag and weight penalty, for gains in ... modulation quality?
Mind you NONE of this applies to touring bikes, tandems etc. But for race bikes, I dunno.


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## kjdhawkhill (Jan 29, 2011)

A 24 hour period and no one has gone all half-cocked and angry about this subject? F^(k!. Disagreements were politely stated without flaming? 

My next commuter / gravel / winter bike will have discs. Don't live in mountain country so continuous drag braking won't be an issue. 

About the technique - anyone have input about alternating front to rear in short hard bursts? Presuming no one is on one's 6?


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## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

tigoat said:


> hey brucew, I have just noticed the rack on your bike, is it a Tubus Logo Titan? I am looking into getting one soon and wondering if you can shed some insight about it. How about the trunk bag shown? Thanks!


No, that's a Tubus Cosmo. It's stainless, and that bike goes out in the salt all winter long, so it's one less thing to worry about corroding. I also like the dual-siderails. Much less cussing and fussing when I use a trunk bag and panniers simultaneously. The Logo Titan is a fairly recent addition to the line. I'm thinking of an Airy for my Litespeed.

The trunk bag is an Arkel Tailrider.


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## tigoat (Jun 6, 2006)

Nicole Hamilton said:


> Great link. Thank you,
> 
> I've been spending the last couple years thinking carefully about what I wanted in a new bike. I'm convinced that electronic derailleurs and disk brakes are definitely the future for road bikes. But while the former are here, the latter are not. This article lays out all the reasons I ended up deciding that if I wanted a road bike with disk brakes, I'd have to wait another two years or so. At 61, I don't really want to do that.


I wouldn't deviate my disc equipped bike plans based on reading about this incident. It seems obvious to blame the skinny rotors in this case but the exact mode of failure is still unclear to me. Read replies from brucew and strathconaman in this thread, as these guys have been using disc brakes on the road without issues. Sure these guys are using mechanical discs but a disc brake is a disc brake so if setup correctly, they will work just fine be it mechanical or hydro. If setup incorrectly, your rim brakes can cause some serious problems as well. Disc brakes in general are not the source of the problem for this accident. Beside being used successfully in the MTB world, disc brakes are used in your car and mine as well as on motorcycles, and these are seriously fast traveling vehicles, much faster than descending a long mountain road with a bicycle, so disc brakes should work just fine on a road bike.


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## tigoat (Jun 6, 2006)

brucew said:


> No, that's a Tubus Cosmo. It's stainless, and that bike goes out in the salt all winter long, so it's one less thing to worry about corroding. I also like the dual-siderails. Much less cussing and fussing when I use a trunk bag and panniers simultaneously. The Logo Titan is a fairly recent addition to the line. I'm thinking of an Airy for my Litespeed.
> 
> The trunk bag is an Arkel Tailrider.


Very cool! Appeciate the info! I was a little concern about the look of the Logo Titan with side rails on my cool custom Ti bike but after looking at your Cosmo, which is similar in design, I am gonna order one next. The Airy is super light but the deck of that thing is so tiny that a super large seat bag may hold more stuff than a small trunk bag mounted this tiny rack can hold, so I don't think it will work well for me. Thanks!


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## GirchyGirchy (Feb 12, 2004)

tigoat said:


> Very cool! Appeciate the info! I was a little concern about the look of the Logo Titan with side rails on my cool custom Ti bike but after looking at your Cosmo, which is similar in design, I am gonna order one next. The Airy is super light but the deck of that thing is so tiny that a super large seat bag may hold more stuff than a small trunk bag mounted this tiny rack can hold, so I don't think it will work well for me. Thanks!


Also take a look at Racktime - they're owned by the same company as Tubus. They're painted aluminum and are much cheaper, but still made very well. They come in silver and black as well.


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## tigoat (Jun 6, 2006)

GirchyGirchy said:


> Also take a look at Racktime - they're owned by the same company as Tubus. They're painted aluminum and are much cheaper, but still made very well. They come in silver and black as well.


Cool thanks! Wow their Al racks are definitely affordable compared to their Ti models. :thumbsup:


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## MichaelB (Feb 28, 2010)

tigoat said:


> I wouldn't deviate my disc equipped bike plans based on reading about this incident. It seems obvious to blame the skinny rotors in this case but the exact mode of failure is still unclear to me. Read replies from brucew and strathconaman in this thread, as these guys have been using disc brakes on the road without issues. .....


I agree with tigoat, as from what I understand (and please correct me if I am wrong), the master cylinders for each side of the TRP Parabox are independant from each other.

The minimalist rotors are a significant contribution, but also the level of maintenance (the writer shortened the lines to fit, so did he do it properly ?), and poor braking technique also added to the issue.

I myself have just fitted the TRP Parabox to my roadie (a 2011 Kona Honky Inc) and replaced the BB7/G2 Cleansweep combo. Weight difference between the two setups was 19g.

I used the RT86 Ice-Tec rotors (180mm front and 160mm rear). So far so good and they work a treat.

Discs work well when setup properly AND operated properly. Some will remain with rim brakes, as it works well enough for them. For me they don't, and hence why I use discs.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

The article was written well enough but the writer did make the key error in calling this a "brake failure". The brake didn't fail, it's user did. He installed components that were not tested together and trusted it in difficult conditions. 

Given that the pads were not gone and the rotor was not gone, the component in this system that came up short was the one that was not identified in the article- the fluid. What was it? Mineral? Dot 3? Dot 4? 5? They all have different boiling points. Key for road brakes is going to be heat resistance of the fluid. Fortunately, the fluids needed are out there. If an endurance race car can heat it's brakes glowing red repeatedly without boiling their fluid, then stopping a bike with a hydraulic disc is a non-issue.


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## MichaelB (Feb 28, 2010)

davidka said:


> The article was written well enough but the writer did make the key error in calling this a "brake failure". The brake didn't fail, it's user did. He installed components that were not tested together and trusted it in difficult conditions.


Bingo !!



davidka said:


> Given that the pads were not gone and the rotor was not gone, the component in this system that came up short was the one that was not identified in the article- the fluid. What was it? Mineral? Dot 3? Dot 4? 5?


TRP state that the oil used in their system in Mineral.

Given that the installer shortened the line (something I have not done yet on mine as I can't get the required fittings), so was it bled properly ?


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## Scott in MD (Jun 24, 2008)

davidka said:


> Fortunately, the fluids needed are out there. If an endurance race car can heat it's brakes glowing red repeatedly without boiling their fluid, then stopping a bike with a hydraulic disc is a non-issue.


You can't just say stuff like this and act like it is true. 

I am not defending the author other than to say he is an experienced cyclist, BikeRumor is a well respected outlet, and the brakes DID fail. He made some very serious mistakes, but the same mistakes many of us could have made. All three OEMs referred to the very difficult technical challenge of road bike hydraulics and preventing fluid boil ... On the record. But you think this is a non-issue?

IMO your statement that road hydraulics are a non-issue simply because race car hydraulics are refined to perfection is crazy. There is no relevance between the two. Do you know the thermal mass of the car rotors versus the bike rotors? Do you know the fluid volume of the two systems. Or the trade between heat dissipation from high speed air cooling versus energy absorbed in braking from high speed? This is a math equation that you have not calculated, so how can you throw statements like this out there? Three leading OEMs say it's an issue .... But you've some some thermodynamic testing and lab trials to prove otherwise? You're in bike fantasyland....

... Is what I think.


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## MichaelB (Feb 28, 2010)

Scott in MD is right, but, the big BUT is that if the right equipment is selected and used properly, the fluid boiling issue should be a non-event in most cases.

As a rider that isn't light and with a rider/bike package weighing in at just over 100kg, at a local descent (short but steep - 2km @ 9.8% avg), with a couple of sharp hairpins, a dead stop at the roundabout near the bottom and having to use teh brakes more due to traffic slowing me down, but still maintaining 50km/hr average speed, the rotor face was hot, the rotor spider (alloy on the RT86 rotors) was air tem, and the caliper was marginally warmer.

On a long descent such as Stelvio, it would be a bit different for sure.

At the end of the day, one should take care when customising systems and making generalisations. As it ain't really that simple.

But discs rule :thumbsup:


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Scott in MD said:


> You can't just say stuff like this and act like it is true.
> 
> I am not defending the author other than to say he is an experienced cyclist, BikeRumor is a well respected outlet, and the brakes DID fail. He made some very serious mistakes, but the same mistakes many of us could have made. All three OEMs referred to the very difficult technical challenge of road bike hydraulics and preventing fluid boil ... On the record. But you think this is a non-issue?
> 
> ...


 Glowing red hot rotors. Glowing red hot calipers. The fluid is inside of these calipers, surrounded by it. There are brake fluids that withstand that. 

Three leading OEM's haven't figured it out yet. There is no reason to think they won't.


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## Pieter (Oct 17, 2005)

"Ashima's minimalist Ai2 rotors might be great for cyclocross and lightweight XC, but perhaps not for road."

Nonsense. Disk brakes may work well on offroad bikes, offering better control in dirty conditions (so sayeth they who ride in such conditions). But a disk remains a relatively small and light device, a brake for high speed applications, where air cooling is copious. First used advantageously - for obvious reasons - in aircraft and racing cars, then in road cars. Even today, they are not universal in heavy trucks which run at low speeds with heavy loads.

If anything, a road bike which is ridden at typically higher speeds is a better application for disks than an offroad bike. 

But I will stay with rim brakes on aluminum alloy rims, offering 

1) more braking surface from a 'natural' disk which is a bonus, an integral 'given' part of a bicycle.
2) higher thermal inertia thanks to a) more mass than a minimalist disk and b) aluminum material with higher specific heat capacity than steel, not to mention much better heat conduction.
3) better air cooling which is vital at the relatively low cycling related speeds, thanks to larger surface area.

The disk advantage is of course, it can withstand much higher temperatures than a tyre-equipped rim. But it seems those temperatures CAN get you in trouble. The miniscule pads glaze, the surface of the stainless steel disk with its poor heat conduction gets terrifcally hot in very short order.

Anyway, enough of that. It is just curious how the bike scene remains a mis-application of so many ideas. 

Tiny ball bearings (ideal for high speed, low load) used in hubs and BB's. No roller bearings, not even in mega-buck components ???

Ceramic bearings, intended for high temperaure, extremely high speed, low load, meagre lubrication. Let's not get started on those.

Disk brakes - well OK. They look 'cool' even if they don't stay that cool in operation.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

looks like Shimano is going with mechanical disc, not hydraulic, and it appears to be cyclocross and commuter oriented. Not seeing where they would use it on high end road bikes

2013 Shimano: 11-speed, road disc brakes and more


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

This article annoys me. Others above me have already pointed out the ridiculousness of the author's setup, which the author himself admits. But then, instead of chalking this up to his own mistakes, the authors goes and slaps a "road disc brakes: not ready for prime time" title on his article. This ignores the fact author doesn't in fact use road disc brakes at all and is generalizing his experience on an inappropriate, flimsy, cobbled-together and esoteric setup to an entire range of technologies. Then the article stays near the top of the webpage and is repeatedly cited on forums.

Every car uses disc brakes. Every motorcycle uses disc brakes. Basically every mountain bike uses disc brakes. The majority of commuter bikes use disc brakes. Discs are a good way to slow wheeled vehicles. This is mature technology that works. It's coming to road bikes and odds are it will be just fine. End of story.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

aclinjury said:


> looks like Shimano is going with mechanical disc, not hydraulic, and it appears to be cyclocross and commuter oriented. Not seeing where they would use it on high end road bikes
> 
> 2013 Shimano: 11-speed, road disc brakes and more


"looks like Shimano is going with mechanical disc, not hydraulic,"

Yet..
This won't be the first time they've been beaten to the market by a smaller company. 9, 10 and 11 speed all came from someone else first, as did wide range road gearing. They'll come out a year or two after SRAM and whoever else throws their product in the mix and they will likely be superior, as usual.


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## grandsalmon (Jan 18, 2009)

davidka said:


> Glowing red hot rotors. Glowing red hot calipers. The fluid is inside of these calipers, surrounded by it. There are brake fluids that withstand that.
> 
> Three leading OEM's haven't figured it out yet. There is no reason to think they won't.


I'll follow this up later, and it will have to do w the thread subject, I promise, considering where I live. But davidka helped me remember a time when I was a kid, loved Rally racing, and they actually had a race near my house in the Sierra Mtns (yea, they could actually use public roads to go bat-ass crazy back when). I waited for hours up on a bank, and around 2am these cars were coming off a semi-long downhill, and the whole underside of the vehicles gave off a huge orange glow- the brakes, one car after another.

(I found out later, they passed my house twice)


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## Rollo Tommassi (Feb 5, 2004)

*Photobomb?*

is that guy in the background taking a whizz??



brucew said:


> Agreed.
> 
> My daily commuter, a 2006 Trek Portland, came with BB7s and 160mm rotors front and rear. While it's not the world's best climbing bike, I took it on vacation to Colorado's Front Range in 2008 precisely for the road disk brakes on the mountain descents.
> 
> ...


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## J-Sub (Aug 9, 2012)

Yeah, I avoided taking the weight weenie to my hydraulic road setup.

I went with the fin-cooled SLX's slaved to my STI's instead. No problems so far and I'm a big heavy dude riding a lot of hilly highways.


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## MichaelB (Feb 28, 2010)

J-Sub said:


> Yeah, I avoided taking the weight weenie to my hydraulic road setup.
> 
> I went with the fin-cooled SLX's slaved to my STI's instead. No problems so far and I'm a big heavy dude riding a lot of hilly highways.


What converter are you using for the cable to hydraulic ?

You mention that your bike (on your website) 

*"Here is the world’s first working daily rider hydraulic road bike"* dated in July. I actually did this on my Kona Honky Inc back in March .

My rig has the TRP Parabox with 180/160mm Shimano IceTec rotors, and have covered many km all over the hills and flats around Adealide in South Australia (home of the Tour Down Under)


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## J-Sub (Aug 9, 2012)

The website was recent (decided to do it based on all the questions I was getting after modding the HED disc and Specialized Trispokes) but I've had the bike set up with hydraulics in one form or another for several years now.

Can you post a picture of yours? If you like I'll feature it in my gallery, I find that now is a really creative time in the industry before everything likely settles down in a couple years when the big players standardize.

Here's how I did it [http://hydraulicroadbike.com/?page_id=178]. I'll add some more pictures but it's actually very simple. The key is in the $1.50 spring.


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## MichaelB (Feb 28, 2010)

J-Sub said:


> The website was recent (decided to do it based on all the questions I was getting after modding the HED disc and Specialized Trispokes) but I've had the bike set up with hydraulics in one form or another for several years now.
> 
> Can you post a picture of yours? If you like I'll feature it in my gallery, I find that now is a really creative time in the industry before everything likely settles down in a couple years when the big players standardize.
> 
> Here's how I did it [https://hydraulicroadbike.com/?page_id=178]. I'll add some more pictures but it's actually very simple. The key is in the $1.50 spring.


OK, I'll give it to you. 

Clunky converter, but it works, and can't deny that !!! True McGyvering

Some pics of the Parabox installed





























Here is a pic prior to hydraulicing it


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## J-Sub (Aug 9, 2012)

Very cool!

I especially like the side shot. 

I take it you're pretty happy with them.


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## MichaelB (Feb 28, 2010)

Bike rides really well, and the discs are fantastic. Only thing I'd like to improve on the bike is the weight.

I'm torn between trying to improve this a bit (a wheelset handbuilt with CM hubs will take off nearly 1kg !!), but the end goal is to get the 2nd incarnation of the Volagi Liscio.

Discs are the only way fwd for road bikes, and now that Specialised has released a road bike with discs, it will be interesting to see who the next big manufacturer will be.

Interesting times ahead :aureola:


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

I run elixer hydros on my flatbar CX bike. They are awesome. 

If someone comes up with some hydro brakes for the drops I'll make the switch. Single speed would be ideal.


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## MichaelB (Feb 28, 2010)

Local Hero said:


> ....
> 
> If someone comes up with some hydro brakes for the drops I'll make the switch. Single speed would be ideal.


They do. TRP Parabox, Hope V-Twin are out now and available. Then there is 324 Labs (not sure if they are available yet).

Then there is the C59 using the Formula Di2 levers, TRP is releasing the Hywqire soon, and then there is the promised SRAM Road Hysdro groupset also out soon.

Next problem


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## J-Sub (Aug 9, 2012)

Or you could buy a spring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ES-_q1u5Qc


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## testpilot (Aug 20, 2010)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Who would use those rotors?  They look more like a strip of wire than a brake rotor.
> 
> Makes me think of someone cutting their Record brake pads in half to make them lighter and then whining about Campagnolo having poor braking.


Not only that, who would design and market those rotors for any kind of riding?!? Consumers aren't engineers and will try anything without knowing or understanding the implications. It makes me wonder how many weight weenie products are out there with no failure modes effects management engineering.

The laws of Physics still apply!


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

testpilot said:


> Not only that, who would design and market those rotors for any kind of riding?!? Consumers aren't engineers and will try anything without knowing or understanding the implications. It makes me wonder how many weight weenie products are out there with no failure modes effects management engineering.


The WW love those type of rotors. I cringe at them. I like to know I'll stop, not hope I do before that turn with a 20 ft drop off. 

I also think a full hydro system will cool better in general. The expandable res in the lever helps with heat managment as well as pad wear.

I would consider these conversion kits if I lived in a flatter area. However, with the mtn around here, I will keep my bike as designed for the time being. When I see full hydos with 160 mm discs front and back, I will start to look harder. Well, at that point, I'll probably by a new bike with them. Upgrading the frame, wheels and shifters will probably be just as pricey.


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