# Climbing gears for Ultegra 6800 - change front ring or rear derailleur/cassette?



## MJCBH (Nov 25, 2002)

Hello.
I'm currently on Ultegra 6800 with a 50x34 and an 11/28 cassette. I'm wanting to get some higher gears for climbing (bad knees). It was recommended by somebody that it would be cheaper to change my compact crankset 50x34 to a 50x32 instead of buying both a new rear Ultegra 6800 GS long cage derailleur and an 11/32 cassette. My shop checked and apparently a 32 ring for the front is an option although currently out of stock (?). What would be the advantages/disadvantages of both? If I changed the front ring, would that leave me under-geared? I like having the option of having 1 "bail out" gear such as the 32 but keeping most other gear ratios the same. thanks in advance for advice. I obviously don't understand gear ratios much


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

You mean lower gears, not higher. 

I don't know what the shop is talking about, since there is no ring smaller than 33 teeth that will go on a crank with that 110mm bolt circle diameter.

You'd get a bigger change in gearing if you got a cassette with 32.

If 34x28 is really not low enough for you to climb your hills safely, maybe you should consider a triple. That's what I'd do.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

Yep 33t is the smallest that fits 110mm BCD. And it does not fit all cranks. If the crank arms are long then the chain will hit them.

You can go to 32t cassette but you'll need a Shimano 9sp MTB derailleur for your 10sp Ultegra. (10sp MTB derailleurs use a different cable pull). A 6800A derailleur which is spec'd for 30t max MAY work. I've been able to push other Shimano derailleurs past their max cog spec but it depends on your frame's hanger.


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## ngl (Jan 22, 2002)

The triple is a good idea, but, will cost you some money for shifters and crank. You can always sell your existing stuff to recoup some of the cost. 

Is it possible to install an 11-32 with the short cage derailleur with adjustments (ever though Shimano says no)? I have not tried it. Otherwise invest in an 11-32 cassette and new long cage derailleur and sell you old stuff. 

Most importantly do what must to SAVE YOUR KNEES.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

ngl said:


> The triple is a good idea, but, will cost you some money for shifters and crank. You can always sell your existing stuff to recoup some of the cost.
> 
> Is it possible to install an 11-32 with the short cage derailleur with adjustments (ever though Shimano says no)? I have not tried it. Otherwise invest in an 11-32 cassette and new *long cage derailleur* and sell you old stuff.
> 
> Most importantly do what must to SAVE YOUR KNEES.


Just to be clear, it's not just the long cage that makes things work. The derailleur must have the proper geometry to clear the big cog. That's why Shimano makes a 'mid' cage derailleur that works w/ a 30. Whether or not the mid cage works w/ a 32t cog totally depends on the individual frame. If the hanger is slightly long, it might work. If it's a short-ish hanger it won't work.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Changing to a triple would be prohibitively expensive.

Best option is focus on the rear shifting. You could probably go with an 11-32. If the jockey pulley chatters against the largest cog, you can:

1) Put in a longer B-adjust screw
2) Take a link out of the chain

If neither of these solves the chattering problem, you can:

1) Just live with the noise until the jockey pulley gets totally worn down and you have to replace the derailleur (see #2)
2) Replace the derailleur with a 9-speed (yes, 9-speed) Deore or Deore LX

Then again, you could just forget about the 11-32 and go all the way to an 11-36 Deore or SLX 10-speed mountain cassette. That way, you won't have to wonder whether you will need to replace the rear derailleur with that Deore. And imagine what a hill climbing monster you will have then! :thumbsup: This is STILL cheaper than playing with the front gearing and WAY cheaper than a knee replacement! All in all, it will cost you around $125 - Cassette $60, Derailleur $40, new chain $25 (always put a new chain on with a new cassette).


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## Jwiffle (Mar 18, 2005)

50x32 probably won't shift very well even if you could get a 32t ring. Change the cassette. 4 teeth in the rear will make a lot more difference than 2 in the front.


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## scottma (May 18, 2012)

Since the OP has a 6800 drivetrain, the sensible option is to go with the 11-32 and 6800-GS rear derailleur. Leave everything else alone.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Lombard said:


> Changing to a triple would be prohibitively expensive.
> 
> Best option is focus on the rear shifting. You could probably go with an 11-32. If the jockey pulley chatters against the largest cog, you can:
> 
> ...


Uhhhhhmmmmm...generally we try to give good advice, not this kind of thing.


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## jmess (Aug 24, 2006)

Yep, did this with my di2 equipped bike. The 34x32 gives me pretty close to the same ratio I have with my 10sp triple bike and a 30X28. Best change I have made to the bike. Great bailout ratio when you get tired or hit something really steep.



scottma said:


> Since the OP has a 6800 drivetrain, the sensible option is to go with the 11-32 and 6800-GS rear derailleur. Leave everything else alone.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> Uhhhhhmmmmm...generally we try to give good advice, not this kind of thing.


CXWrench,

Could you please elaborate as to why you consider my advice not good? While it may fly in the face of road biker convention, it works. Please explain, thanks!


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## MJCBH (Nov 25, 2002)

jmess said:


> Yep, did this with my di2 equipped bike. The 34x32 gives me pretty close to the same ratio I have with my 10sp triple bike and a 30X28. Best change I have made to the bike. Great bailout ratio when you get tired or hit something really steep.


Are you on 10sp Ultegra Di2? I currently have a 34x30 combo on my other bike with the Ultegra 10sp di2. I didn't think the 34x32 combo would work but maybe so


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Lombard said:


> CXWrench,
> 
> Could you please elaborate as to why you consider my advice not good? While it may fly in the face of road biker convention, it works. Please explain, thanks!


Reversing or installing a longer 'b' screw reduces the number of teeth the chain is in contact with. It is a hack at best. The correct way to do make large cassettes work is to use the proper derailleur that is spec'd for whatever size cog you're wanting to use. Pretty much every time I've seen a derailleur w/ a longer screw installed it was minimal contact w/ the derailleur hanger and the threads end up buggering the hanger. 
Removing a link from the chain? I prefer to run the longest chain possible for any gear combination...taking a link out reduces the chances of your drivetrain working smoothly in the big/big combination. To do this for the sole reason of pulling the derailleur forward so it might not pinch the chain is pretty stupid. The only time the chain will get pinched is in small ring/big cog situations, so shortening the chain won't have any effect on this.


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## scottma (May 18, 2012)

cxwrench, what is your opinion on using a longer hanger? I set up a 12-30 on a friends bike. We did use the 6700A 30T derailleur, but it still seemed close. I had a hanger that was a bit longer and it really helped to make it work. Seems like a decent option.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

scottma said:


> cxwrench, what is your opinion on using a longer hanger? I set up a 12-30 on a friends bike. We did use the 6700A 30T derailleur, but it still seemed close. I had a hanger that was a bit longer and it really helped to make it work. Seems like a decent option.


That can definitely work. It accomplishes the same thing as a derailleur designed to work w/ bigger cogs at the large end of the cassette. It can put the upper pulley a bit further away from the smaller cogs, but it generally doesn't affect shifting to much.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> Reversing or installing a longer 'b' screw reduces the number of teeth the chain is in contact with. It is a hack at best. The correct way to do make large cassettes work is to use the proper derailleur that is spec'd for whatever size cog you're wanting to use. Pretty much every time I've seen a derailleur w/ a longer screw installed it was minimal contact w/ the derailleur hanger and the threads end up buggering the hanger.
> 
> Removing a link from the chain? I prefer to run the longest chain possible for any gear combination...taking a link out reduces the chances of your drivetrain working smoothly in the big/big combination. To do this for the sole reason of pulling the derailleur forward so it might not pinch the chain is pretty stupid. The only time the chain will get pinched is in small ring/big cog situations, so shortening the chain won't have any effect on this.


CX, your point is well taken that the correct way to remedy this issue is to get the correct derailleur.

As you say, the further in the b-screw is, the fewer teeth the chain will be in contact with resulting in shifts that aren't as smooth. I just mentioned it as a quick and dirty option that works as many don't have the $$ to spend on multiple new components.

Removing the link in the chain would be a last resort if the b-screw fix didn't work. I hardly consider it an argument about the drivetrain not working in the big/big combo as nobody who knows how to shift correctly ever uses this combo or for that matter, the small/small combo. But I know it does prevent the chain pinching in the small ring/big cog combo.

Regarding doing this the right way by going up to a mountain derailleur, it appears the only Shimano mountain derailleurs that still work with road shifters are "9-speed" derailleurs such as Deore and Deore LX. SLX, XT and XTR are all now Dyna-Sys which appear to have a different pull ratio. To confuse things even more, some of the newer Shimano mountain derailleurs are now bottom normal, not top normal.


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## Neb (Sep 8, 2012)

cxwrench said:


> Just to be clear, it's not just the long cage that makes things work. The derailleur must have the proper geometry to clear the big cog. That's why Shimano makes a 'mid' cage derailleur that works w/ a 30. Whether or not the mid cage works w/ a 32t cog totally depends on the individual frame. If the hanger is slightly long, it might work. If it's a short-ish hanger it won't work.


Am I missing something? The 6800 GS mid-cage derailleur that OP mentions is explicitly spec'd by Shimano as being 32T compatible...


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

scottma said:


> Since the OP has a 6800 drivetrain, the sensible option is to go with the 11-32 and 6800-GS rear derailleur. Leave everything else alone.


Yeah, this ^^^ since Shimmy makes an 11-32 for 11spd.

I run an 11-32 10 spd and do wish I had tighter ratios. However, I love the 32 on those steeper/longer climbs.


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## Warpdatframe (Dec 9, 2012)

I can think I can feel the watts and muscle mass oozing out of my legs as I read this thread. A 34-32????


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Neb said:


> Am I missing something? The 6800 GS mid-cage derailleur that OP mentions is explicitly spec'd by Shimano as being 32T compatible...


You are correct, it's 32 not 30. Don't know how I screwed that up.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Microshift also makes a rear derailleur good up to 34T, compatible with Shimano/SRAM mechanical (non-DI2).


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## Neb (Sep 8, 2012)

Warpdatframe said:


> I can think I can feel the watts and muscle mass oozing out of my legs as I read this thread. A 34-32????


I don't know about you, but I'm at peace with myself with the fact that I like having a 32T bailout gear for 17% to 20+% grades of extended lengths. Muscle mass oozing out of your legs, haha.


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## rm -rf (Feb 27, 2006)

Warpdatframe said:


> I can think I can feel the watts and muscle mass oozing out of my legs as I read this thread. A 34-32????


That's only 15% easier than a 28. Some riders I know make good use of the 32 on steep hills.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

Warpdatframe said:


> I can think I can feel the watts and muscle mass oozing out of my legs as I read this thread. A 34-32????


Yep, my last name is not Armstrong and I'm primarily mtb. So, spinning them low gears is a normal thing.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

I'm staggered. 34x32?? I've just got back from the Italian lakes. 10km + with extended stretches of 12-14% a regular occurrence. With zero cartilage and limited movement in my right ankle I still was able to climb with a 34x27. I only used the 27 a couple of times.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Lombard said:


> I hardly consider it an argument about the drivetrain not working in the big/big combo as *nobody who knows how to shift correctly ever uses this combo* or for that matter, the small/small combo.


EVERY modern drive train has been engineered w/ big/big being possible. Most modern drivetrains make it possible to use small/small as well, but it's kinda dumb to use that gear. Crosschaining big/big is a part of life now. Of course it accelerates wear on components, but so does riding in the rain. Anyone that advises against every using big/big is out of touch w/ current drivetrain technology.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

Even if you "never" use big-big you can accidentally shift into it when you are tired and not paying attention.

It's a good idea to set up the drivetrain to handle it so the derailleur won't be ripped off the bike when you shift into it by mistake.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

ultimobici said:


> I'm staggered. 34x32?? I've just got back from the Italian lakes. 10km + with extended stretches of 12-14% a regular occurrence. With zero cartilage and limited movement in my right ankle I still was able to climb with a 34x27. I only used the 27 a couple of times.


How nice for you. Those of us who like lower gears aren't worthy!

PS: It's always just a matter of time in these sort of low gearing threads until someone claims the low gears arent' needed. It's almost cliche.

My wife has a 30t chain ring on her road triple and I modified her drive train w/ a 34t mtb cassette and a Deore RD (works perfectly). She rides up very steep hills, very happily and enjoys her rides in spite of her staggering weakness and unworthiness.

But I don't think this sort of option is available for the 11 speed group?


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

ultimobici said:


> I'm staggered. 34x32?? I've just got back from the Italian lakes. 10km + with extended stretches of 12-14% a regular occurrence. With zero cartilage and limited movement in my right ankle I still was able to climb with a 34x27. I only used the 27 a couple of times.


OK, you're a "real cyclist". I prefer to save the cartilage in.my knees.


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## Neb (Sep 8, 2012)

Camilo said:


> How nice for you. Those of us who like lower gears aren't worthy!
> 
> PS: It's always just a matter of time in these sort of low gearing threads until someone claims the low gears arent' needed. It's almost cliche.


Yeah, it's inevitable. Almost as if people don't have different levels of fitness and comfort.  Or the reoccurring statement that having lower gears makes you weaker...


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## Lucky (Feb 9, 2004)

The 2014 Cannondale women's Synapse Hi-mod comes stock with Ultegra 6800 derailleurs with 50/34 front and 11-32 in the back. Works like a charm. Those of us who spin and occasionally face 18-20% grades appreciate the low gears.


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## multirider (Nov 5, 2007)

*Lower gearing for Di2-equipped bike*

Found this thread while searching for info. Am looking for updated experiences on the topic.

I live in Colorado and occasionally climb/descend very steep roads. My current bike is a 2x10 with 53/38 on the front. It came with 11x28 on the back with a mechanical DuraAce short cage rear derailleur. The gearing wasn't low enough for me sometimes, so I put a 11x32 on it. Kept the short cage derailleur, turned the B screw in all the way. Shifts fine, makes just a little bit of noise when running in the 32t on the rear, but I'm typically in the lowest gear only briefly -- a few minutes at a time on the steepest sections of road. In its current configuration, it shifts fine and gives me the low gearing that I need for the brief periods that I need it. On the other end of the spectrum, I need the 53x11 a few times on most rides.

I plan to purchase a new 2x11 bike that comes with a 52/36 up front and 11x28 on the back with Ultegra Di2 6870 rear derailleur. The shop said "we've put an 11x32 on other Di2 6870 bikes and they work fine". That is consistent with my mechanical DuraAce experience, but I'd hate to destroy a Di2 derailleur.

Has anyone tried a 11x32 with Di2 6870 short cage rear derailleur? I'm interested in successful or unsuccessful experiences. If unsuccessful, did it not shift to the 32t at all? or was it just degraded shifting? or noisy in the 32t?

Has anyone tried the long cage conversion kits such as K-Edge Di2 Long Cage Derailleur Conversion Now Quicker & Cheaper ?

SRAM makes a 11x30 (Shimano does not). Has anyone tried running a SRAM 11 speed cassette with Di2? I've interchanged SRAM and Shimano cassettes on my 10 speed mountain and cyclocross bikes with no issue. I would expect the same would be true of road cassettes. But it would be helpful to hear about the experience of others.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

multirider said:


> Found this thread while searching for info. Am looking for updated experiences on the topic.
> 
> I live in Colorado and occasionally climb/descend very steep roads. My current bike is a 2x10 with 53/38 on the front. It came with 11x28 on the back with a mechanical DuraAce short cage rear derailleur. The gearing wasn't low enough for me sometimes, so I put a 11x32 on it. Kept the short cage derailleur, turned the B screw in all the way. Shifts fine, makes just a little bit of noise when running in the 32t on the rear, but I'm typically in the lowest gear only briefly -- a few minutes at a time on the steepest sections of road. In its current configuration, it shifts fine and gives me the low gearing that I need for the brief periods that I need it. On the other end of the spectrum, I need the 53x11 a few times on most rides.
> 
> ...


If you're going with Ultegra Di2 and want to use a 11-32 just fit a long cage Ultegra mech. It is rated up to a 32 as standard. Oh and, if the shop didn't know that, find another shop.

Using the SS cage mech when there is an alternative is not a good idea. While it may shift into the lowest sprocket it is a compromise on both the shift quality front as well as a risky proposition wrt to sprocket/jockey wheel clash. Don't do it. RD6870GS is the mech you need.


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## multirider (Nov 5, 2007)

The bike is several hundred dollars over my budget by itself, so just buying the bike is quite a stretch. I am hoping to find an acceptable solution to lower gearing without having to spend $200 on a new derailleur in addition. Spending $100 for a new cassette adds to the pain, but a new rear derailleur is just that much more difficult. 

The 36t chainring with 28t cassette cog is 8% harder than my current gearing and my current gearing is not quite low enough on some climbs, so I really need lower gearing than the bike comes with. A 11x30 would be the same gearing that I have now, a 11x32 would give me that little-bit-lower gear I'd love to have occasionally.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

multirider said:


> The bike is several hundred dollars over my budget by itself, so just buying the bike is quite a stretch. I am hoping to find an acceptable solution to lower gearing without having to spend $200 on a new derailleur in addition. Spending $100 for a new cassette adds to the pain, but a new rear derailleur is just that much more difficult.
> 
> The 36t chainring with 28t cassette cog is 8% harder than my current gearing and my current gearing is not quite low enough on some climbs, so I really need lower gearing than the bike comes with. A 11x30 would be the same gearing that I have now, a 11x32 would give me that little-bit-lower gear I'd love to have occasionally.


The only way to know is to try it. I've had them work w/ a 32 quite a few times, so the chances are good. For some reason the Di2 derailleurs have more range w/ large cogs than the mechanical derailleurs. The SRAM 30 will almost certainly work but of course should be tested in the stand to make sure. SRAM and Shimano use exactly the same spacing so it'll work fine.


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## riccardo123 (May 29, 2014)

Have you tried to find out what you'd get for an unused 11-28 cassette and and unused short cage RD? Either via Ebay or via your bike shop? The change up cost ought to be <50% of the new cost I'd say.

I have 52/36 and 11/32 Ultegra and am very happy with it, but mine is all mechanical, I have no experience with Di2.


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## civicboy_8 (Nov 19, 2016)

A short cage derailleur can quite often work with 11-32 cassettes...I've had my SRAM etap working on that for over a year, but that's another conversation.

It all depends on your frame, the limit screw and trying it out.

It will be a cheaper option to go with the cassette if that's an issue. But there is one other option and that is to buy a "Road link" hanger made by Wolf tooth components. This is effectively a hanger that extends the distance of your normal hanger to the frame and allows you to use your normal short cage derailleur. I've seen people on MTB cassettes 11-36 or 11-40 on road setups!


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

ultimobici said:


> I'm staggered. 34x32?? I've just got back from the Italian lakes. 10km + with extended stretches of 12-14% a regular occurrence. With zero cartilage and limited movement in my right ankle I still was able to climb with a 34x27. I only used the 27 a couple of times.


If you had bronchitus, now that would be impressive.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

civicboy_8 said:


> A short cage derailleur can quite often work with 11-32 cassettes...I've had my SRAM etap working on that for over a year, but that's another conversation.


It works. The question is, does it work WELL? Read on.




civicboy_8 said:


> It will be a cheaper option to go with the cassette if that's an issue. But there is one other option and that is to buy a "Road link" hanger made by Wolf tooth components. This is effectively a hanger that extends the distance of your normal hanger to the frame and allows you to use your normal short cage derailleur. I've seen people on MTB cassettes 11-36 or 11-40 on road setups!


This goes against everything I've heard and read about the Wolf Tooth. In theory, the Wolf Tooth will make your medium or long cage road derailleur play nice with up to a 36T cog. You may be confusing the issue of the derailleur cage with the geometry of the derailleur itself. Keep in mind that the cage size determines chain wrap capacity. Without the longer cage, the chain will either be too short in the large/large combo or too long in the small/small combo. The former can be catastrophic, the latter will just give you sloppy shifting. The Wolf Tooth does not change this! Is it possible to run it this way? Yes. But it's not advisable.




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## civicboy_8 (Nov 19, 2016)

Lombard said:


> It works. The question is, does it work WELL? Read on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Sorry yes, you are correct about the woof tooth. I actually thought a SS derailleur would work, but appears that it may not.

Regarding my SRAM etap on 11-32, my setup has worked flawlessly in the past year and it's never let me down...only caveat is I wouldn't use it with small front ring with small cog...but that's pretty obvious and shouldn't be done anyway!


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