# Domane or Madone?



## jrizo1 (Jul 28, 2009)

First of all I want to thanks every one for your input, help, recommendations etc. on my last two Threads (Rim brakes/Disc Brakes and Pedals) I was going to get the Domane SL6 i tried one and I like it a lot but today I when to my local bike shop and saw a Madone 9.0 and like how it rides and looks 
what will you recommend?

little bit about me; I am on my late 30's live on the west coast of florida, I used to ride 2 to 3 times a week about 20 miles per trip at 18-22 MPH but I have not ride on the last 2 years 
want to get back and get on shape 

thanks in advance


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## BCSaltchucker (Jul 20, 2011)

what about any of the fifty other similar models and brands out there?? I am kind of amazed by the extra value Giant delivers on their new bikes. almost pulled trigger on a Defy today


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## Herbie (Nov 12, 2010)

Just get the one you like best, not the most popular one on this board. Both are good


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

The only important difference between those two models for you is the price tag. Either one could be ridden by a pro rider to victory - they are both high end road racing bikes.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

if it were me, and both bikes fit, I'd go for Madone no question.


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## bradkay (Nov 5, 2013)

The big difference is in riding position: the Domane is a slightly more relaxed position (aimed at us baby boomers). If you are looking for a more aerodynamic position, go for the Madone.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

bradkay said:


> The big difference is in riding position: the Domane is a slightly more relaxed position (aimed at us baby boomers). If you are looking for a more aerodynamic position, go for the Madone.


Not really. Their fit differences are less than 1cm.

But they are marketed that way.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

Kontact said:


> Not really. Their fit differences are less than 1cm.


So, the Madone is ~1/2” lower stack and ~1/2” longer reach, both specs probably fixable with a proper fitting. The Madone also is also >1lb lighter - my 54cm Domane SL6 came in at 19lbs, so I say it’s more like a 2lb difference.

I love my Domane, but I ride in in wet weather on steep roads and am no longer powerful and lithe. Otherwise I might like the Madone.


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## ceugene (Jun 20, 2015)

IMO if you have to ask, the answer is the Domane.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

JSR said:


> So, the Madone is ~1/2” lower stack and ~1/2” longer reach, both specs probably fixable with a proper fitting. The Madone also is also >1lb lighter - my 54cm Domane SL6 came in at 19lbs, so I say it’s more like a 2lb difference.
> 
> I love my Domane, but I ride in in wet weather on steep roads and am no longer powerful and lithe. Otherwise I might like the Madone.


Add a 1cm spacer to the Madone and the reach difference between the two is 7mm or .27". It's nothing.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

The Madone is the nicer looking of the 2 if you can get it in Red. The 9.5 in Red would be soooo sweet, but it's pricier of course.


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

Both great bikes. Its more about you. The bikes speak for themselves and are a bit different. Can you ride slammed?...with say 3" of saddle to handlebar drop?
The Madone is available in H2 geometry which is close to the Domane. I personally prefer the Madone because of different geometry available and it has excellent ride quality and cuts the wind like a knife which is welcome due to winds on FL's west coast.

I strongly suggest you ride both a few times if possible. Frame size and fit/set up are key. Geometry matters more than the difference between the bikes....which is partly based upon geometry.

I will tell you what is smack between is the Emonda which is also a great bike which btw, I prefer to the Domane.


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

My God, it took me until just now to notice Domane, Emonda, and Madone all use the same letters.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

jetdog9 said:


> My God, it took me until just now to notice Domane, Emonda, and Madone all use the same letters.


Odname.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

Kontact said:


> Add a 1cm spacer to the Madone and the reach difference between the two is 7mm or .27". It's nothing.


Sigh. Prove that something is something then assert it is nothing.

The Madone has shorter seatstays, shorter wheelbase, shorter head tube, steeper head tube angle, lighter weight, lower stack, longer reach, narrower tires. These amount to a quicker handling, faster accelerating bike.

Those things may not be important to the OP. They are not “nothing”.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

JSR said:


> Sigh. Prove that something is something then assert it is nothing.
> 
> The Madone has shorter seatstays, shorter wheelbase, shorter head tube, steeper head tube angle, lighter weight, lower stack, longer reach, narrower tires. These amount to a quicker handling, faster accelerating bike.
> 
> Those things may not be important to the OP. They are not “nothing”.


Sigh. You are confusing handling and ride attributes with fit attributes. The only difference in fit 1cm of stack, which is what my post was talking about.

Sigh.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Opus51569 said:


> Odname.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


scramble expert?


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

The Madone does have narrower chainstays. Don't think you can go bigger than a 25mm tire on a 24-25mm rim, max. That's plenty comfort if it were me. Fat aero wheels like the new Easton EC90 Aero55 will probably not fit.

Also, with the Madone, the stem and handbars are integraged, with stem angle fixed, and, they're expensive (like $400). So measure thrice and cut once the modus operandi if getting a Madone


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Kontact said:


> Sigh. You are confusing handling and ride attributes with fit attributes. The only difference in fit 1cm of stack, which is what my post was talking about.
> 
> Sigh.


There are more differences than that. The Domane is more geared toward comfort with room for wider tires and the IsoSpeed seat suspension. The Madone is a race bike which I don't think can fit wider than 25mm tires.

To the OP, test ride lots of bikes, buy the one that feels best and above all, buythe one that fits best.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

The Madone officially fits up to 28mm tires (and probably more):

Trek Madone 9 Series first ride review - BikeRadar USA

"Clearance is great, too. Trek officially says the new Madone will swallow tires up to 28mm wide and rims up to 30mm wide (external measurement), depending on the exact combination."


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Rashadabd said:


> The Madone officially fits up to 28mm tires (and probably more):
> 
> Trek Madone 9 Series first ride review - BikeRadar USA
> 
> "Clearance is great, too. Trek officially says the new Madone will swallow tires up to 28mm wide and rims up to 30mm wide (external measurement), depending on the exact combination."


OK, I stand corrected.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

Lombard said:


> There are more differences than that. The Domane is more geared toward comfort with room for wider tires and the IsoSpeed seat suspension. The Madone is a race bike which I don't think can fit wider than 25mm tires.
> 
> To the OP, test ride lots of bikes, buy the one that feels best and above all, buythe one that fits best.


I guess I have to keep repeating myself:

I was speaking purely about the fit numbers in reply to Bradkey's post about the difference in fit. The fit numbers are as I stated.

There are many other differences between the bikes, including the name and color. But I wasn't posting about those things, was I?


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Kontact said:


> I guess I have to keep repeating myself:
> 
> I was speaking purely about the fit numbers in reply to Bradkey's post about the difference in fit. The fit numbers are as I stated.
> 
> There are many other differences between the bikes, including the name and color. But I wasn't posting about those things, was I?


Understood.


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## Pisgah2000 (Nov 24, 2015)

I've ridden both somewhat recently, and at least with the factory specs, the feel is very different. As has been said, the Domane is a more comfort-oriented bike, and is more upright and short. The Madone is a bit lower and longer. I'd ride each and see what works best for you. If you're stuck on Trek, I'd also look at the Emonda ALR (or SLR). I was really close to buying a 2016 ALR 6... nice bike for the money.

Things that I noticed:

I did not find the Domane to be any more comfortable than the Madone or an Emonda on broken pavement. I've found that tires make a more noticeable difference in comfort on the road than a springy seat post or steerer. Personally, if you're after comfort, I'd get whatever bike feels/fits/looks/whatever the best and then throw on a good set of tubeless wheels and tires. They really do/can ride that well. Room for wider tires, like a true 28, would be high on my list. Higher-end Treks tend to come with decent TLR wheelsets and you may be able to swap tires when you buy the bike, so it might not even cost much.

The aero-ness of the Madone is neat, but makes for more complex cable routing and some weird proprietary parts (the same can be said of a lot of aero bikes). This may or may not matter to you.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Lombard said:


> There are more differences than that. The Domane is more geared toward comfort with room for wider tires and the IsoSpeed seat suspension. The Madone is a race bike which I don't think can fit wider than 25mm tires.
> 
> To the OP, test ride lots of bikes, buy the one that feels best and above all, buythe one that fits best.


Madone has Isospeed seatpost too.


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## Dinosaur (Jan 29, 2004)

I'm on my second Madone My first was an '07 5.9SL. I took it out for a test ride and loved it from the first pedal stroke. I had absolutley NO interest in Trek's at the time. I also took out a Colnago CLX, which was way too twitchy for me and a couple hundred dollars more. I bought a built up 2014 Madone 5.9 last Dec (nos frame) with Ultegra 6800 and Hed Belgium C2 wheels. I gave my old Madone to my son in law, who never rides it and I regret doing it. The only way you can really tell which bike will work for you is to test ride both if you can. Actually if you can, test ride a bunch of bikes. Don't go by brand name.


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## n2deep (Mar 23, 2014)

Lombard said:


> The Domane is more geared toward comfort with room for wider tires and the IsoSpeed seat suspension. The Madone is a race bike.
> 
> To the OP, test ride lots of bikes, buy the one that feels best and above all, buythe one that fits best.


Absolutely, I endorse the Domane SLR, my personal favorite, it's a great bike, comfortable, easy to ride and yet is stiff enough to accelerate quickly, this bike will stay up with the big dogs when needed


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## jrizo1 (Jul 28, 2009)

Dinosaur said:


> I'm on my second Madone My first was an '07 5.9SL. I took it out for a test ride and loved it from the first pedal stroke. I had absolutley NO interest in Trek's at the time. I also took out a Colnago CLX, which was way too twitchy for me and a couple hundred dollars more. I bought a built up 2014 Madone 5.9 last Dec (nos frame) with Ultegra 6800 and Hed Belgium C2 wheels. I gave my old Madone to my son in law, who never rides it and I regret doing it. The only way you can really tell which bike will work for you is to test ride both if you can. Actually if you can, test ride a bunch of bikes. Don't go by brand name.


One of the main reasons I am buying a trek is because I used to ride one a few years ago and love it (Madone) I was younger and lighter though 

I tried both and like both


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

I have four Madones, all 5 Series and up, dating back to when the 5 Series was the top of the line. The geometry and style just works for me. For many years I avoided Trek because of Lance, and rode all sorts of "boutique" brands, but I eventualy gave the Madone 5.2 Pro a shot and really liked it.

The only thing I wish they had was more tire clearance, which a Domane would provide.
I will say the latest upper-end versions with the hyper-internal cable routing do not interest me in the least. Hard to wrench on and hard to fit to certain people (cockpit).

These days I race on my Madones, but I ride my ti bike the most. External routing, English bottom bracket, cleans up easily, reasonable performance, bombproof construction... Simple is often better for an everyday ride.

No matter what end of the price/performance/category spectrum a bike falls into, my advice is always the same- buy what inspires you and then ride the hell out of it.


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

Alaska Mike said:


> I have four Madones, all 5 Series and up, dating back to when the 5 Series was the top of the line. The geometry and style just works for me. For many years I avoided Trek because of Lance, and rode all sorts of "boutique" brands, but I eventualy gave the Madone 5.2 Pro a shot and really liked it.
> 
> The only thing I wish they had was more tire clearance, which a Domane would provide.
> I will say the latest upper-end versions with the hyper-internal cable routing do not interest me in the least. Hard to wrench on and hard to fit to certain people (cockpit).
> ...


Good post. If not racing or trying to keep up on a group ride, why not ride what's simple and feels good...perhaps a bit more upright as well.

A friendly suggestion in jest.  Sell a couple of your old Madones and pick up a new one. The new Madone is state of the art and an amazing go fast bike. A very different bike than previous Madones. However, like the Venge VIAS, more of a PITA to set up.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

A couple inches of exposed cable isn't what's losing me races.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

jrizo1 said:


> *One of the main reasons I am buying a trek is because I used to ride one a few years ago and love it (Madone)* I was younger and lighter though
> 
> I tried both and like both


Not a good enough reason to pledge your loyalty to Trek. They are a totally different company now. You may still love their newer bikes, but there are many other great bikes out there from different bike makers that are just as good or better.

I would expand my horizons if I were you. You may be pleasantly surprised. Look outside the box.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Trek mostly makes boring bland bikes. However, their current gen Madone is the exception. It's arguable the most integrated (handebars, brakes), aero dynamic, comfort (isospeed seatpost, which is not easy to make), AND lightweight for such an aero frame. There is not other aero road frame right now that can match the Madone in all of these parameters. Not the Specialized Venge, not the Pinarello F8, F10, not Cervelo, nobody right now. And to top it all, the top end Madone is made in the USA. That's A LOT of bargain for a bike in this class. If I was going to buy a Trek, the top end Madone would be the only one I'd seriously consider. Set it up with eTap and you'll eliminate a lot of the routing mess, you'd still have to mess with brake cables and that's it, but that's the price you pay for a highly integrated aero frame.

All the other Trek bikes are so-so average. Not even bother.


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

Alaska Mike said:


> A couple inches of exposed cable isn't what's losing me races.


Didn't say that and agree and applies to us all. Some pros in fact circumvent stem cable routing for easier setup and ability to tune positon easier. 
But the new Madone has to be in the top three race bikes on the planet in tech and performance...and even universality of fit with H1 and H2 fit. Top of the food chain.


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

aclinjury said:


> Trek mostly makes boring bland bikes. However, their current gen Madone is the exception. It's arguable the most integrated (handebars, brakes), aero dynamic, comfort (isospeed seatpost, which is not easy to make), AND lightweight for such an aero frame. There is not other aero road frame right now that can match the Madone in all of these parameters. Not the Specialized Venge, not the Pinarello F8, F10, not Cervelo, nobody right now. And to top it all, the top end Madone is made in the USA. That's A LOT of bargain for a bike in this class. If I was going to buy a Trek, the top end Madone would be the only one I'd seriously consider. Set it up with eTap and you'll eliminate a lot of the routing mess, you'd still have to mess with brake cables and that's it, but that's the price you pay for a highly integrated aero frame.
> 
> All the other Trek bikes are so-so average. Not even bother.


Strongly disagree. I have spent a fair amount of time on high end Emondas and they maybe the best overall bike out there. Weight, ride, handling, power transfer.
Do agree with you about the Madone and Etap would be a good companion to negate cable routing woes.


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## Aeolite (Dec 17, 2016)

I was really set to buy a project one yellow Madone 9 until I test rode it against a Pinarello F/8-10, and Bianchi Oltre XR4. All four bikes were fast but the Madone had a harsh, not stiff, ride that was not pleasant. I loved both the Pinarellos but ended up with the Bianchi for the ride quality, speed, and aesthetics.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

11spd said:


> Strongly disagree. I have spent a fair amount of time on high end Emondas and they maybe the best overall bike out there. Weight, ride, handling, power transfer.
> Do agree with you about the Madone and Etap would be a good companion to negate cable routing woes.


How did you measure the power transfer?


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## jrizo1 (Jul 28, 2009)

Lombard said:


> Not a good enough reason to pledge your loyalty to Trek. They are a totally different company now. You may still love their newer bikes, but there are many other great bikes out there from different bike makers that are just as good or better.
> 
> I would expand my horizons if I were you. You may be pleasantly surprised. Look outside the box.


What will you recommend to try?


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## Z'mer (Oct 28, 2013)

to the OP - at 40 miles week, I'd be a little thrifty and probably recommend the Domane SL5 w/105, (no disk brakes please) for $2K. This is actually a pretty decent price for a carbon road bike with 105 groupset. Not sure you would do much better at Giant. 

You could then upgrade to Ultegra, DI2, new wheels, etc if you get really into the sport, without taking a huge hit upfront if you don't.

I personally like long wheelbase endurance frames, as no need to get a race machine if you aren't racing. They don't go any faster, because they both have the same engine.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

jrizo1 said:


> What will you recommend to try?


Brands worth a look are:

Cannondale
Giant
Jamis
GT
Scott
Felt

.....just to name a few who make some great bikes. Or should I ask, what does your favorite bike shop carry?


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## bradkay (Nov 5, 2013)

Kontact said:


> Not really. Their fit differences are less than 1cm.
> 
> But they are marketed that way.


If a 1cm difference in reach or stack is "insignificant" then why pay big bucks for a professional fit session? Oh right... because small changes can make a big difference in comfort. If you are looking for a more relaxed riding position then I suggest starting with a frame that is designed to offer more in the way of a relaxed riding position rather than taking another bike and adjusting it to fit. YMMV.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Aeolite said:


> I was really set to buy a project one yellow Madone 9 until I test rode it against a Pinarello F/8-10, and Bianchi Oltre XR4. All four bikes were fast but the Madone had a harsh, not stiff, ride that was not pleasant. I loved both the Pinarellos but ended up with the Bianchi for the ride quality, speed, and aesthetics.


ugh Madone is a harsh ride? It's on the soft side for a pure racer, definitely softer than the likes of Tarmac SL4/SL5 and Venge. Anyway I don't think you can categorically say that the Madone is harsher than the F8/10 or any frame unless the seats, tires, wheelsets are identical among the bikes as these components have a huge bearing on perceived comfort felt at the ass and hands. And since you were just test riding these bikes, you must have tested them with whatever components that came on the bikes?


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

bradkay said:


> If a 1cm difference in reach or stack is "insignificant" then why pay big bucks for a professional fit session? Oh right... because small changes can make a big difference in comfort. If you are looking for a more relaxed riding position then I suggest starting with a frame that is designed to offer more in the way of a relaxed riding position rather than taking another bike and adjusting it to fit. YMMV.


You're making zero sense. The Domane does not offer a "more relaxed position", it offers "nearly the same position". That 1cm is the limit on slamming the stem all the way down.

However you want to sit on the bike, the Madone and Domane are nearly identical in shape for a given size. The only difference of note is the ability to put the Madone stem 1cm lower. That's it. And that's true whether you fit yourself or have someone else do it. 

Frame geometry isn't "fit". Frame geometry defines the outer limits of fitting for that size. Everything that happens away from those limits is unimportant.

There are certainly frames whose combination of stack and reach are only appropriate for sitting up or being very tucked, but that isn't true of either of these bikes. They are right in the middle of the extremes and designed to fit average people easily.


"Fit" is fine tuning within the range the frame makes possible.

If you have questions about how fitting and fit geometry works, start a thread and those of us with a background in it can help you understand.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

jrizo1 said:


> What will you recommend to try?


Or go ride a Litespeed or Lynskey and see if you would like something other than a molded carbon bike.

For carbon, Colnago has a model that is $3200 with Ultegra. Try that, too.


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## jrizo1 (Jul 28, 2009)

Kontact said:


> Or go ride a Litespeed or Lynskey and see if you would like something other than a molded carbon bike.
> 
> For carbon, Colnago has a model that is $3200 with Ultegra. Try that, too.


What’s the mode? I can’t find it


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

jrizo1 said:


> What’s the mode? I can’t find it


I think it is the AC-R. I was in a Colnago dealer yesterday and they pointed out what a bargain whatever model it was being carbon, Ultegra and $3200. You could call Metier Racing in Seattle if you can't figure it out. 

Can't say if it a better or worse than any particular other bike, but people seem to really like the Colnago experience.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

aclinjury said:


> The Madone does have narrower chainstays. Don't think you can go bigger than a 25mm tire on a 24-25mm rim, max. That's plenty comfort if it were me. Fat aero wheels like the new Easton EC90 Aero55 will probably not fit.
> 
> Also, with the Madone, the stem and handbars are integraged, with stem angle fixed, and, they're expensive (like $400). So measure thrice and cut once the modus operandi if getting a Madone


the Madone 9.0 which is the one the OP mentioned doesn't have the integrated stem and bars, that starts with the 9.5. if I were looking for a Madone it would be the 9.5 or something else with the integrated bars and di2 because they look great and c
able replacement on those bars is a nightmare from what I have heard


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Srode said:


> the Madone 9.0 which is the one the OP mentioned doesn't have the integrated stem and bars, that starts with the 9.5. if I were looking for a Madone it would be the 9.5 or something else with the integrated bars and di2 because they look great and c
> able replacement on those bars is a nightmare from what I have heard


ah thanks for the correction. I can't keep track of all the various models these bigs tend to have. When it comes to the term "Trek Madone", there's only one thing in my mind, and that's the top end one with the integrated handlebars and brakes. Gotta say, it looks slick with every so integrated. This is THE thing that makes the Madone so special, IMO. Di2 is great too, yeah you still need to run the initial electrical cables, but they're a whole lot easier to run than mechanical cables. I know another buy with the 9.5 Madone but used went with mechanical groupset Dura Ace 9000, and that worked fine too, but he didn't run the cables himself, had the bikeshop did it.

Besides the 9.5 Madone, everything else Trek has is cookie cutter stuff, just like most other bigs.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

11spd said:


> Strongly disagree. I have spent a fair amount of time on high end Emondas and they maybe the best overall bike out there. Weight, ride, handling, power transfer.
> Do agree with you about the Madone and Etap would be a good companion to negate cable routing woes.


Emondas is cookie cutter stuff. Trek makes this for the weightweenie crowds. I'm 120 lbs and I'll take Madone 9.5 all day for aero. Besides, the Emonda feels flimsy, a little cheap to be honest!


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

I have a friend who has a Madone 9.5 that she can't get fit properly to because of all the integration and internal routing. You're limited to specific Trek components for the cockpit, which come in a very limited amount of sizes and angles. Fit is not just about a couple spacers or going with a particular stem length. The size down frame was far too small, and she fell right in the middle of the suggested fit for the frame she got.

She can race all day on her TT bike or older Madone, but this bike absolutely destroys her back after a relatively short circuit race. Shame, for what she invested in the bike for it to turn out that way.

Since I wrench on my own bikes (badly), I prefer something I can service easily, without special tools. I'm a bit of a Luddite in that regard. I still haven't moved to 11 speed on any of my bikes, as I have thousands invested in 10 speed components, to include wheels. For me, it doesn't make sense yet. As those components reach the end of their service life, I have extras sitting around to replace them probably for the next decade. Maybe then I'll look at upgrading. I recognize the advantages of the new stuff, but I just can't justify it financially at the moment (bang for the buck).


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

Alaska Mike said:


> I have a friend who has a Madone 9.5 that she can't get fit properly to because of all the integration and internal routing. You're limited to specific Trek components for the cockpit, which come in a very limited amount of sizes and angles. Fit is not just about a couple spacers or going with a particular stem length. The size down frame was far too small, and she fell right in the middle of the suggested fit for the frame she got.
> 
> She can race all day on her TT bike or older Madone, but this bike absolutely destroys her back after a relatively short circuit race. Shame, for what she invested in the bike for it to turn out that way.
> 
> Since I wrench on my own bikes (badly), I prefer something I can service easily, without special tools. I'm a bit of a Luddite in that regard. I still haven't moved to 11 speed on any of my bikes, as I have thousands invested in 10 speed components, to include wheels. For me, it doesn't make sense yet. As those components reach the end of their service life, I have extras sitting around to replace them probably for the next decade. Maybe then I'll look at upgrading. I recognize the advantages of the new stuff, but I just can't justify it financially at the moment (bang for the buck).


Your friend needs more solid advice. The Madone with integrated stem/handlebar with internal cable routing can be retrofitted with standard stem so she can more easily tune her position. No reason to spend all that money and not dial in her position precisely as she wants. Further, for her to leave the bike shop with her set up not knowing her 3 pts of contact to dial her fit is shame on both her and her bike shop. Stack, reach, stem size, spacer stack should have all been tuned when paying that much for a bike.

Same with the Venge VIAS. Both aero bikes are available with either integrated stem versus standard stem and former can be retrofitted with standard stem with cables routed external to the stem but still nice and tidy. Each bike is sold with standard stem and integrated stem…same frameset for each.
See Madone below:


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

11spd said:


> The Madone with integrated stem/handlebar with internal cable routing can be retrofitted with standard stem so she can more easily tune her position. No reason to spend all that money and not dial in her position precisely as she wants.


There is also no reason to spend all that money on an aero bike with an integrated aero bar system and not be able to use it. Get a bike that works with the features it is intended to have.

No one should be going home with a bike of that cost that doesn't come with a guaranteed fit. If that bike isn't going to work for position reasons, the store should take it back, if they did the fitting.

Consumers are not fit experts, and if Trek and its dealers want to offer a bike restricted in fit by its componentry then they need to have a method for sizing and fitting consumers.


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

Kontact said:


> There is also no reason to spend all that money on an aero bike with an integrated aero bar system and not be able to use it. Get a bike that works with the features it is intended to have.
> 
> No one should be going home with a bike of that cost that doesn't come with a guaranteed fit. If that bike isn't going to work for position reasons, the store should take it back, if they did the fitting.
> 
> Consumers are not fit experts, and if Trek and its dealers want to offer a bike restricted in fit by its componentry then they need to have a method for sizing and fitting consumers.


Thanks for the laugh. If you had a clue you would know that both the Madone and Venge are available in either integrated stem or conventional stem 'from the factory'. Different models with exactly the same frameset.

You may notice there are no integrated stem/handlebars with 'rise'.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

11spd said:


> Thanks for the laugh. If you had a clue you would know that both the Madone and Venge are available in either integrated stem or conventional stem 'from the factory'. Different models with exactly the same frameset.
> 
> You may notice there are no integrated stem/handlebars with 'rise'.


Are you comparing the $7500 9.5 version she bought with the $4000 9.0 version without the integrated stem?


And are you saying that these two don't have different rise?




















I suppose those P5 stems I worked on also didn't have "rise".


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

How about difference in bar height comparing these?


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

How about comparing these two Madones when riding position adversely affects back pain.
Do you believe the handlebar height on the conventional stem Madone can be achieved with an integrated stem on the same bike? Many steer clear of the integrated stem/handlebar Madone and Venge because they can’t get the handlebar height high enough. Jesus Kontact, this is pretty basic stuff.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

11spd said:


> How about comparing these two Madones when riding position adversely affects back pain.
> Do you believe the handlebar height on the conventional stem Madone can be achieved with an integrated stem on the same bike? Many steer clear of the integrated stem/handlebar Madone and Venge because they can’t get the handlebar height high enough. Jesus Kontact, this is pretty basic stuff.


I don't know why you're not getting this. The lady bought a $7500 bike that includes a $600 integrated bar/stem. She can certainly spend another several hundred dollars to outfit the $7500 bike like the $4000 bike and toss the $600 bar, but that would be an incredibly stupid waste of money when she should have been sold the cheaper model in the first place if the integrated version couldn't work.


You seem to vacillate between just being confused and claiming things that are untrue, Mr. No-rise. Which wouldn't be nearly so obnoxious if anyone respected you or you were just polite.

Again:
Integrated stems have risers. You were wrong.

People shouldn't get bikes where they have to throw out the expensive parts to get it to fit.


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## jrizo1 (Jul 28, 2009)

Lombard said:


> Brands worth a look are:
> 
> Cannondale
> Giant
> ...


Favorite bike shop only carry Trek, one of my closest bike shop carries Giant(not a big fan)
And felt I tried two that they have and it was ok. I am going to an other ship next weeks that carries specialized, Scott’s and Jamis next week.


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## jrizo1 (Jul 28, 2009)

Z'mer said:


> to the OP - at 40 miles week, I'd be a little thrifty and probably recommend the Domane SL5 w/105, (no disk brakes please) for $2K. This is actually a pretty decent price for a carbon road bike with 105 groupset. Not sure you would do much better at Giant.
> 
> You could then upgrade to Ultegra, DI2, new wheels, etc if you get really into the sport, without taking a huge hit upfront if you don't.
> 
> I personally like long wheelbase endurance frames, as no need to get a race machine if you aren't racing. They don't go any faster, because they both have the same engine.


I like your thinking. 
Will SRAM wireless work good with Domane?


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## jrizo1 (Jul 28, 2009)

Kontact said:


> Or go ride a Litespeed or Lynskey and see if you would like something other than a molded carbon bike.
> 
> For carbon, Colnago has a model that is $3200 with Ultegra. Try that, too.


I need to find a bike shop that carries Colnago I been told a lot of good things about it but I always thought it was way more expensive


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

jrizo1 said:


> I need to find a bike shop that carries Colnago I been told a lot of good things about it but I always thought it was way more expensive


I would not be willing to pay more $$ for a boutique brand. Are you really getting full Ultegra for $3200 or are other cheaper parts sneaked in there. What kind of wheels?


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

Kontact said:


> I don't know why you're not getting this. The lady bought a $7500 bike that includes a $600 integrated bar/stem. She can certainly spend another several hundred dollars to outfit the $7500 bike like the $4000 bike and toss the $600 bar, but that would be an incredibly stupid waste of money when she should have been sold the cheaper model in the first place if the integrated version couldn't work.
> 
> 
> You seem to vacillate between just being confused and claiming things that are untrue, Mr. No-rise. Which wouldn't be nearly so obnoxious if anyone respected you or you were just polite.
> ...


Nothing I can write will not insult you. Your judgement is simply off…consistently.
She owns the bike. She has it. She only has two options at this point. Sell the bike or change the riding position. She may have the option of more spacers under the stem, but I presume if she did, she would have done this because her back hurts. So presuming her stem stack is maxed out, her only recourse is to install a conventional stem with more rise. Bontrager makes a stand alone handlebar close to the shape of her integrated bar and stem if she prefers this bar shape. If not, there are several aero handlebars to choose from.

Of course she should have got it right out the door of the bike shop. She didn’t. This likely wouldn’t have happened to you or me but it did to her. She can either sell the bike, fix it or ride it in pain. As stated, this is why many don’t even consider a bike with an integrated bar and stem. Because if they want more flexibility in tuning their set up, most choose a conventional stem and handlebar for the insignificant sum of watts saved with an integrated set up.

Bike shop 101. You worked at one. I have repaired countless bike shop screw ups among friends and club riders. Your posts explains why.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

aclinjury said:


> The Madone does have narrower chainstays. Don't think you can go bigger than a 25mm tire on a 24-25mm rim, max. That's plenty comfort if it were me. Fat aero wheels like the new Easton EC90 Aero55 will probably not fit.
> 
> Also, with the Madone, the stem and handbars are integraged, with stem angle fixed, and, they're expensive (like $400). So measure thrice and cut once the modus operandi if getting a Madone


As posted earlier 28's will fit and rims up to 30mm. The bar/stem combo is $600.00 but you don't have to use it.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Srode said:


> the Madone 9.0 which is the one the OP mentioned doesn't have the integrated stem and bars, that starts with the 9.5. if I were looking for a Madone it would be the 9.5 or something else with the integrated bars and di2 because they look great and *c
> able replacement on those bars is a nightmare from what I have heard*


Not really that much of a hassle, you just have to know 'the trick'. I can have all 4 cables/housing installed in the bars in about 2 mins. It's obviously a little more work getting everything into the frame and pointed in the right direction but it's only a PITA if you haven't learned the right way to do it. 



jrizo1 said:


> I like your thinking.
> Will SRAM wireless work good with Domane?


Of course it will, why wouldn't it?


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

I'll talk to the shop that sold the bike and fitted her. I didn't realize there was an adapter to use a standard stem/handlebar combo, and I'm not sure they did either. As it was, she was running the shortest integrated bar they had with the greatest number of spacers they could throw in there, and nothing was working.

I'd offer to fit her, but the amount of pain involved in routing those damn cables might kill the friendship.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

11spd said:


> Nothing I can write will not insult you. Your judgement is simply off…consistently.
> She owns the bike. She has it. She only has two options at this point. Sell the bike or change the riding position. She may have the option of more spacers under the stem, but I presume if she did, she would have done this because her back hurts. So presuming her stem stack is maxed out, her only recourse is to install a conventional stem with more rise. Bontrager makes a stand alone handlebar close to the shape of her integrated bar and stem if she prefers this bar shape. If not, there are several aero handlebars to choose from.
> 
> Of course she should have got it right out the door of the bike shop. She didn’t. This likely wouldn’t have happened to you or me but it did to her. She can either sell the bike, fix it or ride it in pain. As stated, this is why many don’t even consider a bike with an integrated bar and stem. Because if they want more flexibility in tuning their set up, most choose a conventional stem and handlebar for the insignificant sum of watts saved with an integrated set up.
> ...


I wasn't insulted by anything your wrote except for the outright insults. "You make me laugh." "This is pretty basic stuff." "Your post explains why." 

Insults you wrote in response to me saying basically "The shop should have insured that the bike which is supposed to function with an expensive integrated bar system does." Not sure why that idea is so hard for you.

I've never worked at a bike shop where that sort of screw up was made. When I was 18 I sent someone home on the wrong size bike, and we took it back and ordered the right size. Later, we sold every bike with a fit, and revisited the fit as many times as necessary to get it right - including with bikes that have integrated stem systems like the Cervelo P5. If we had sold the Madone in question it wouldn't have ended up with majorly downgraded bar to make the sale.


Yeah, she can 'make the best of it' by putting a Chrysler engine in her Ferrari, but that wasn't my point, you insulting knob.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

Alaska Mike said:


> I'll talk to the shop that sold the bike and fitted her. I didn't realize there was an adapter to use a standard stem/handlebar combo, and I'm not sure they did either. As it was, she was running the shortest integrated bar they had with the greatest number of spacers they could throw in there, and nothing was working.
> 
> I'd offer to fit her, but the amount of pain involved in routing those damn cables might kill the friendship.


It would be interesting to compare her old Madone to this one to see why the bars aren't getting nearly close enough for comfort. Just put the two bikes right next to each other and it should be obvious what's happening.

Maybe the shop can give her a $599 credit for the bars if they are unusable, but I have to wonder if the actual frame size is wrong or if the steerer was cut too low to use the full complement of spacers.


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

Kontact said:


> I wasn't insulted by anything your wrote except for the outright insults. "You make me laugh." "This is pretty basic stuff." "Your post explains why."
> 
> Insults you wrote in response to me saying basically "The shop should have insured that the bike which is supposed to function with an expensive integrated bar system does." Not sure why that idea is so hard for you.
> 
> ...


 This isn’t about your dumb shop and never has been about your limited experience. It is about what she can do to recover and make the bike more ride-able.
Bad fits happen all the time throughout the country. More critical than usual because with integrated stem and handlebar, stem angle isn’t adjustable.
You are obfuscating which you do every time you are wrong which is consistently.
A conventional stem isn’t a Chrysler engine. You are the knob bro.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

11spd said:


> You may notice there are no integrated stem/handlebars with 'rise'.


What did you mean by this?


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

Kontact said:


> What did you mean by this?


Its code for your knob-itus is unparalleled in the annals of internet posting disinformation. You put the clue in clueless.
It gives rise to posit….a metaphor…whether your knob-ism is like a hemorrhoid flair up explaining your unintelligible state of confusion or…a perpetual state of being lost. A compelling argument for the latter. To focus upon the rise of Madone integrated bar and stem which is not changeable ‘is irrelevant’ like everything you post. Trek doesn’t offer alternative rises for the bar they install on the higher level model Madone. That is the problem. Mike stated she has maximum spacer stack. She has nowhere to go with her set up. Get it? If she wants to keep the bike and a higher handlebar to alleviate back pain, if she has sufficient steerer length for maximum spacer stack which she does, her only recourse is a conventional stem with more rise than the unchangeable rise integrated handlebar/stem on her bike.
The question is, why in earth are you here? Anybody as ignorant as you shouldn’t post.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

11spd said:


> Its code for your knob-itus is unparalleled in the annals of internet posting disinformation. You put the clue in clueless.
> It gives rise to posit….a metaphor…whether your knob-ism is like a hemorrhoid flair up explaining your unintelligible state of confusion or…a perpetual state of being lost. A compelling argument for the latter. To focus upon the rise of Madone integrated bar and stem which is not changeable ‘is irrelevant’ like everything you post. Trek doesn’t offer alternative rises for the bar they install on the higher level model Madone. That is the problem. Mike stated she has maximum spacer stack. She has nowhere to go with her set up. Get it? If she wants to keep the bike and a higher handlebar to alleviate back pain, if she has sufficient steerer length for maximum spacer stack which she does, her only recourse is a conventional stem with more rise than the unchangeable rise integrated handlebar/stem on her bike.
> The question is, why in earth are you here? Anybody as ignorant as you shouldn’t post.


I'm asking why you said "there are no integrated stem/handlebars with 'rise'."

Are there no integrated stem/handlebars with 'rise', or not?


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

Kontact said:


> I'm asking why you said "there are no integrated stem/handlebars with 'rise'."
> 
> Are there no integrated stem/handlebars with 'rise', or not?


I think your real name is Ike.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co5xVHsMRV0


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

11spd said:


> You may notice there are no integrated stem/handlebars with 'rise'.


And here you claimed:



11spd said:


> Square taper BB's have always had cup and cone 'loose bearings'....have not been comprised of cartridge bearings you show which are not cone and cup aka 'thrust' bearings.


Are either of these true?


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

Kontact said:


> I am full of jiba jabber.


 Or, I am leaning a bit more toward you being Johnny Tyler…
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF8r3DhudHM


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

11spd said:


> Or, I am leaning a bit more toward you being Johnny Tyler…
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF8r3DhudHM


It is such a simple question. Does this bar/stem have 'rise'?


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

Alaska Mike said:


> I'll talk to the shop that sold the bike and fitted her. I didn't realize there was an adapter to use a standard stem/handlebar combo, and I'm not sure they did either. As it was, she was running the shortest integrated bar they had with the greatest number of spacers they could throw in there, and nothing was working.
> 
> I'd offer to fit her, but the amount of pain involved in routing those damn cables might kill the friendship.


I was digging around and read the Madone manual - nowhere does it say what the max spacer number is. I did find this picture, which looks like it has three 10mm and three 5mm for a total of 45mm. 










If the dealer needs to swap forks to get more steerer, the 50 and 54 have the same fork rake, and all the sizes above 54 have the same.

I'm willing to bet that she can be fitted to her bike using the equipment she paid for if the steerer and spacers can be stacked high enough. It might require a call to Trek's tech department, though.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

It's not a question of spacers at this point- it's more a question of reach. Compared to her old Madone, the bars are just too deep and there is no option for a shorter stem with the integrated bar. A separate stem and bar combo would give her far more options for fit.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

Alaska Mike said:


> It's not a question of spacers at this point- it's more a question of reach. Compared to her old Madone, the bars are just too deep and there is no option for a shorter stem with the integrated bar. A separate stem and bar combo would give her far more options for fit.


While 90mm isn't long for the stem portion, the bars themselves have a reach of 9.3cm, which is really quite long. 1.3cm longer than average. And 40cm can be way too wide for many women. Given those dimensions, no one should be surprised that they are having a fit problem with those bars. 

"Proper bike fit is essential for best performance and comfort. Any size and geometry measurements shown on trekbikes.com are for general comparison purposes only. To find your perfect fit, visit an authorized Trek retailer, where an expert skilled at sizing will help you find the appropriate bike and size for your individual needs."

Given what Trek has to say about their dealer's expertise, they should credit your friend for the difference in handlebar costs. Still, it's a shame that they sell someone a bike with aero features and can't deliver on all of them. 

Trek has always had real trouble with small sizing.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

They tried the smallest stem/bar combo Trek makes, but I showed her a side-by side comparison of her old bike and her new one, and the difference was striking. The new one looked all aero 'n' stuff, but was no lower (spacers) and was stretched out a lot more, putting her in an inefficient and ultimately painful position.

We'll see what the store does for her.


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## Z'mer (Oct 28, 2013)

Alaska Mike said:


> They tried the smallest stem/bar combo Trek makes, but I showed her a side-by side comparison of her old bike and her new one, and the difference was striking. The new one looked all aero 'n' stuff, but was no lower (spacers) and was stretched out a lot more, putting her in an inefficient and ultimately painful position.


About stack and reach - "Frame stack and reach dimensions do not take into account handlebar shape or stem length/angle and spacers." 
Stack and Reach - Fit Werx

You can have two bikes with identical stack and reach, but unless the bars, spacers, and stem are the same, the fit is not identical. Those Trek integrated bars look like they would stretch anyone out compared to typical compact bars.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

Z'mer said:


> About stack and reach - "Frame stack and reach dimensions do not take into account handlebar shape or stem length/angle and spacers."
> Stack and Reach - Fit Werx
> 
> You can have two bikes with identical stack and reach, but unless the bars, spacers, and stem are the same, the fit is not identical. Those Trek integrated bars look like they would stretch anyone out compared to typical compact bars.


Stack and reach are used for frame selection, not fitting. Normally an acceptable frame would be combined with reasonable bar and stem selections, but Trek's offering is unreasonably long in bar reach.


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

Z'mer said:


> About stack and reach - "Frame stack and reach dimensions do not take into account handlebar shape or stem length/angle and spacers."
> Stack and Reach - Fit Werx
> 
> You can have two bikes with identical stack and reach, but unless the bars, spacers, and stem are the same, the fit is not identical. Those Trek integrated bars look like they would stretch anyone out compared to typical compact bars.


This ^^^
Mike, Let us know what you end up doing. I would be quite surprised if the Trek dealer would consider moving her down a frame size in the current model and certainly not for no charge unless there is a special relationship. Of course one size down frameset would create more drop and not desired.

Her only recourse is a conventional stem with a shorter reach handlebar as I stated a while back in this thread. Also check her old Madone for handlebar width. A wider handlebar can stretch a rider out as arms closer together ergo a more narrow handlebar, arms closer together are projected more forward for greater reach. You can try this yourself sitting in your computer chair.

Curious what the Trek dealer will do for her. Each dealer is different. A lottery in terms of customer support. Depends on the shop owner.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

11spd said:


> A wider handlebar can stretch a rider out as arms closer together ergo a more narrow handlebar, arms closer together are projected more forward for greater reach.


Well, not really. The minimum reach distance is when the bar is about the width of shoulder to keep the arm parallel to the plane of the frame.

If you have 40cm shoulders, the arms arc out with 44s as much as they arc in with 36s. (But too narrow is easier on the joints than too wide due to the structure of the shoulder.)


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

Kontact said:


> Well, not really. The minimum reach distance is when the bar is about the width of shoulder to keep the arm parallel to the plane of the frame.
> 
> If you have 40cm shoulders, the arms arc out with 44s as much as they arc in with 36s. (But too narrow is easier on the joints than too wide due to the structure of the shoulder.)


Don't think I have ever run across anybody so ignorant on a bike forum. Basic geometry you apparently can't fathom. Common knowledge in mountain bike fitting with wide bars which are always companion with a shorter stem. Even an idiot like you should be able to grasp the concept. We aren't talking about arcing in. Likely the handlebar sizing even at narrowest width for this female rider is with arms either straight off the shoulders or splayed out...presuming a unisex handlebar with likely not only too much reach but width. Put your hands 3 feet apart and they are less projected forward from one's body than if hands are placed closer together aka a more narrow handlebar.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

11spd said:


> Don't think I have ever run across anybody so ignorant on a bike forum. Basic geometry you apparently can't fathom. Common knowledge in mountain bike fitting with wide bars which are always companion with a shorter stem. Even an idiot like you should be able to grasp the concept. We aren't talking about arcing in. Likely the handlebar sizing even at narrowest width for this female rider is with arms either straight off the shoulders or splayed out...presuming a unisex handlebar with likely not only too much reach but width. Put your hands 3 feet apart and they are less projected forward from one's body than if hands are placed closer together aka a more narrow handlebar.


MTB bars are different because of the hand angle - they access the shoulder joint differently. That's why we can use MTB bars that are much wider than road bars.

What you're missing is that holding your arm straight in front of you is the shortest distance to a line running parallel to the shoulders (like a handlebar). If you swing your arm out, you have correctly realized the distance to that line gets larger. But it also gets longer if you arc your arm in toward the center/stem. That's why the correct width is necessary to minimize reach.

It is a very simple case of where on the arc of the arm the handlebar will be tangent - it is at the same outboard distance as the shoulder joint.


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

Kontact said:


> MTB bars are different because of the hand angle - they access the shoulder joint differently. That's why we can use MTB bars that are much wider than road bars.
> 
> What you're missing is that holding your arm straight in front of you is the shortest distance to a line running parallel to the shoulders (like a handlebar). If you swing your arm out, you have correctly realized the distance to that line gets larger. But it also gets longer if you arc your arm in toward the center/stem. That's why the correct width is necessary minimize reach.
> 
> It is a very simple case of where on the arc of the arm the handlebar will be tangent - it is at the same outboard distance as the shoulder joint.


The concept is easy to prove mathematically but not going to waste my time with you. You are wrong. I find your need to be right almost desperate in how you respond to posters on this forum. Not to just me. Your response to Z'mer is who you are.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

11spd said:


> The concept is easy to prove mathematically but not going to waste my time with you. You are wrong. I find your need to be right almost desperate in how you respond to posters on this forum. Not to just me. Your response to Z'mer is who you are.


It certainly is easy to prove:

From a point in space, at what angle is the minimum distance to a line? 80°, 90° or 100° to the line? You are saying essentially "90°, or less" and the correct answer is "90°".


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

*Moderator note*



11spd said:


> ignorant...
> idiot like you


Let's not get carried away with personal insults over bike fits and handlebar widths. Play nice or you'll get a Christmas stocking full of coal.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

11spd said:


> The concept is easy to prove mathematically but not going to waste my time with you. You are wrong. I find your need to be right almost desperate in how you respond to posters on this forum. Not to just me. Your response to Z'mer is who you are.


Kontact seems very un-desperate to me...you're the one that's just dying to prove your point. Read your posts, you're worse than I am.


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

Mike, 
You seem like a decent guy and I believe you are on the right track now.

Because I always feel sullied needlessly debating Kontact...sorry to all, I will hopefully renew purity to the hobby by sharing one of the best young operatic talents in the world.

Even those not a fan of opera with marvel at this young lady...one of the great voices on the planet. There is no explanation for such a virtuoso prodigy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9PQ7qPkluM


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## 11spd (Sep 3, 2015)

Local Hero said:


> Let's not get carried away with personal insults over bike fits and handlebar widths. Play nice or you'll get a Christmas stocking full of coal.


Cheers Local Hero. My apology. My atonement is sharing a much needed song as we approach Christmas.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Moderator's Note*



11spd said:


> Don't think I have ever run across anybody so ignorant on a bike forum. Basic geometry you apparently can't fathom. Common knowledge in mountain bike fitting with wide bars which are always companion with a shorter stem. Even an idiot like you should be able to grasp the concept. We aren't talking about arcing in. Likely the handlebar sizing even at narrowest width for this female rider is with arms either straight off the shoulders or splayed out...presuming a unisex handlebar with likely not only too much reach but width. Put your hands 3 feet apart and they are less projected forward from one's body than if hands are placed closer together aka a more narrow handlebar.


Wondering on the best way to get a time out- make posts like this.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

The Trek local store is owned by a friend, so I may be biased, but he's very customer-service oriented and a very positive force in the cycling community- especially when we race against each other and I beat him.

We don't get many bikes of this level in the area, and it very well could have been a discounted demo model. I think they either swapped to a shorter bar/stem combo or that was originally the smallest Trek made.

I think a shallower bar like an EC90 Aero (if the width works) with a short stem would put her in a good position while still providing decent aerodynamics. The kit to do the swap is like $110, so I passed her the information and suggested she do some research this winter. I'd help her with the fit, but I really, really don't want to route those cables.

I hope she gets it sorted out, because she was bummed that her really nice bike was slowly killing her ability to ride.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

I'm sure I'll get blasted by fit purists, but how far back is her saddle?


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

Back on topic.

OP,as other suggested have a look at Giant and see if their bikes tickle you. I’ve bought a TCR this year and it’s amazing how much of a bike you can get for the money.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

Srode said:


> I'm sure I'll get blasted by fit purists, but how far back is her saddle?


I'll bet it is back where it should be to get her behind the pedals enough to not be sitting on her pubic bone.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

Srode said:


> I'm sure I'll get blasted by fit purists, but how far back is her saddle?


Without digging out my plumb bob and just eyeballing it, I'd say she's pretty good there. That was my first thought too, but after seeing two bikes right next to each other it was kinda obvious where the issue was. Everything from the saddle to the steerer tube lined up, and then the 9 Series stretched out.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

my point was going to be move the saddle forward and up to get the same leg extension if it doesn't put her in a ridiculous position relative to the pedals - if you have room on the rails.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

Srode said:


> my point was going to be move the saddle forward and up to get the same leg extension if it doesn't put her in a ridiculous position relative to the pedals - if you have room on the rails.


You can do that, and it will impact pelvic angle, balance/handlebar pressure, handling and muscles used for pedaling. It is generally a very problematic change - especially for women who usually have less lower back flexibility. And likely unwelcome by someone who rides as much as a racer.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Kontact said:


> You can do that, and it will impact pelvic angle, balance/handlebar pressure, handling and muscles used for pedaling. It is generally a very problematic change - especially for women who usually have less lower back flexibility. And likely unwelcome by someone who rides as much as a racer.


Yes, it could be a problem if the flexibility limits the person from adapting to the new position, if not it can be pretty adaptable depending on the starting and ending point and what the basis for the previous fit was. I was pretty comfortable in one fit and ended up moving the saddle forward in a subsequent fit 4 years later - 1.5 cm forward if I remember correctly. I got used to it pretty quick, moved it forward another 0.5cm last year in a fit check and am still comfy enough to ride for 6 to 12 hours without discomfort.


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## GlobalGuy (Jun 9, 2015)

It's all about the difference of geomtry between the two and then factor in the type of fit you want and that answers the question IMO. <script>(function () { var pb_blacklist = 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## Cicio (Jan 25, 2021)

Wow, I stumbled on this forum researching some used bikes for sale.
A domane and a modone. I am older and only have ridden 1980s, vintage steel bikes. Considering a carbon fiber, heard more comfort, lighter, faster, etc.
I recently bought a titanium bike a Basso, probably made by Litespeed. I still am going to probably swap my the seat post and saddle , but I must say am really liking it . I can't believe the amount of knowledge on here, but now I am thoroughly confused 😀😀😀😀😃


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Cicio said:


> Wow, I stumbled on this forum researching some used bikes for sale.
> A domane and a modone. I am older and only have ridden 1980s, vintage steel bikes. Considering a carbon fiber, heard more comfort, lighter, faster, etc.
> I recently bought a titanium bike a Basso, probably made by Litespeed. I still am going to probably swap my the seat post and saddle , but I must say am really liking it . I can't believe the amount of knowledge on here, but now I am thoroughly confused 😀😀😀😀😃


Hi and welcome! Going from a 1980's bike to a recent Litespeed Ti bike I'm sure felt like a big change. So now you are tempted by carbon bikes?

The best thing to do is test ride bikes and see what you like. Keep in mind the Domane and the Madone have two very different geometries. The Domaine is more upright, the Madone is more race oriented.


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