# Default arm position: Locked or bent?



## SlowMover (Jun 6, 2010)

Had a really interesting observation of something I rarely if ever look at on other riders, but given that I have been messing with my cockpit a lot getting my Romin tweaked it's on my radar as it were.

I noticed about 3/4 of the people tonight were riding with locked elbows/shoulders. I happen to have settled on a position of 90 degrees for my upper arm, but a slight bend from the elbows to the shifters. I am running a slight bit more bend in my elbows than I used to, but have gone from a 115 to a 130 stem as well. 

One little bonus I'm finding with more elbow bend is that it's much easier to keep my hip angle in that small sliver of best power angles as I can adjust my torso really w/o thinking. Again, going to a contoured saddle has necessitated some changes as my pelvis is rotated anteriorly a bit more which is a huge welcome, but it's changed a lot of other things....just ever so slightly.


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

Bent. You can absorb bumps better and change your position more easily, as well as react quicker.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Shouldn't it ideally be bent?

I'd only be locked during _moments_ of recovery pedaling, or to stretch a bit when coasting.


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## SlowMover (Jun 6, 2010)

I have always ridden bent, just not as much as of late. But yea I was thinking the same thing looking at all these weekend warrior wanna be's, just like me, who are riding on top of each other in the least reactive position sans riding the tops......and it was 3/4's of them!


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## pdh777 (Oct 7, 2005)

You will never see the pros or experienced cyclists with arms locked - always bent.


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## thirstyman (May 6, 2007)

15 degree bend


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## Gimme Shoulder (Feb 10, 2004)

Bent. If locked, it implies too much weight on the arms - hence bad position (fit) on the bike. There should be very little weight on the arms.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Locked elbows is a recipee for crap bike handling (making the rider a danger element in the group), and neck and shoulder problems too.

If you ride with locked elbows work on your position. You should never ride with locked elbows unless you're doing as Ventruck describes:
_I'd only be locked during moments of recovery pedaling, or to stretch a bit when coasting._


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

I don't think there is any activity where locking a joint (knee, wrist, elbow) is acceptable for any more than a few moments.


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## SlowMover (Jun 6, 2010)

Gimme Shoulder said:


> Bent. If locked, it implies too much weight on the arms - hence bad position (fit) on the bike. There should be very little weight on the arms.


Isn't that scary that 3/4 of the group, somewhere on the order of 30 people, were all riding locked out? I know of 4 people in that group who paid big dollars for 'pro bike fits' riding around locked out in a pack. Hmmm.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Low ROI in 'pro bike fits' 'round your neck of the woods, huh?


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## Goodbarsix (Aug 5, 2009)

pdh777 said:


> You will never see the pros or experienced cyclists with arms locked - always bent.


Took me 1 minute to find this.


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## zach.scofield (Apr 11, 2010)

I prefer a slight bend. I don't like 15 degrees on the hoods or the tops but, 5-7 is great for me. When in the drops I have much more bend, closer to 15 degrees and that is comfortable for me. Locked out as stated causes several issues for the riders body as well as for handling.


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## SlowMover (Jun 6, 2010)

kbwh said:


> Low ROI in 'pro bike fits' 'round your neck of the woods, huh?


ROI would indicate there was actually something of value in them On the flip side there is an outstanding fitter about 2 hours north of here. It's just a convenience factor that many people figure if they dropped $8K on the latest CF concoction with 808's that the fit must be on par. Poor suckers. Most of them only find out about the guy north of here once they start showing signs of injuries: knees, back and neck.

Many of them were on frames that are way too small as well, not 'tweener' sizes where they are splitting the dif. As in shops that sell what needs to be moved off the floor, not necessarily what fits the rider best. 

Never really paid much attention to the fits of others until recent chats with my Serotta fitter pal. Wish I hadn't opened that can-o-worms b/c now it's all I can look at!


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

For me it's mostly bent for normal riding and locked when out-of-saddle climbing or going down a steep incline in sheer terror.


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## SlowMover (Jun 6, 2010)

You have no idea how hard your picture just made me laugh. Dude that needs a warning label. Helmet is classic dork, but I sooo want to show up for the ride Monday night with one. 

Is that the model the Hansen brother's wore in Slapshot?


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

SlowMover said:


> I happen to have settled on a position of 90 degrees for my upper arm, but a slight bend from the elbows to the shifters.


Many riders really don't "settle" on one arm position. Depending on circumstances, one and the same rider will ride with locked elbows, slightly bent elbows and radically bent elbows all within the space of a few minutes. Just pulling yourself forward on the saddle to ride on its nose will change your shoulder- and elbow joint angle significantly. So seeing a bunch of riders with arms locked out doesn't really mean much if everyone's just riding along instead of putting out some serious effort.


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## SlowMover (Jun 6, 2010)

wim said:


> Many riders really don't "settle" on one arm position. Depending on circumstances, one and the same rider will ride with locked elbows, slightly bent elbows and radically bent elbows all within the space of a few minutes. Just pulling yourself forward on the saddle to ride on its nose will change your shoulder- and elbow joint angle significantly. So seeing a bunch of riders with arms locked out doesn't really mean much if everyone's just riding along instead of putting out some serious effort.


Exactly, which is why I took notice of it since the ride is a 28 mile hold on for dear life gut busting hammer fest with people constantly being spit out the back of a rotating pace line. Which included me doing the last 4 or so miles bonked out by myself:/

I do have a default position that I have 'settled' on for normal pace line riding though and it's bout a 20* bend on the hoods. When I'm going hard it's nearly 90 with level forearms, but that's only when I'm doing pulls.


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## -dustin (Jan 11, 2009)

Arms straighten in 2 situations...

1) cruising along, chit-chatting, 0 work, hands on the tops
2) beyond spent, desperately trying to recover, all form lost, hands on the hoods

So on a scale, that would represent 1 and 10...2 - 9, arms are slightly bent.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

I would think locked would also be bad for blood flow, maybe contributing to hand numbness. I know it works that way with knees if you keep them locked for two long.


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## Gimme Shoulder (Feb 10, 2004)

SlowMover said:


> Isn't that scary that 3/4 of the group, somewhere on the order of 30 people, were all riding locked out? I know of 4 people in that group who paid big dollars for 'pro bike fits' riding around locked out in a pack. Hmmm.


I think the key is the weight on the arms - not so much whether or not the arms are locked out. That's why I used the word "implies". Often times, too much weight on the arms is due to the fore/aft saddle position and/or saddle tilt. I think another factor is ab and back strength. A weaker core tends to require a less aggressive position to keep weight off the arms.

Regarding bike fitting - I've had a fit or two also, but the last one was 3 years ago when I bought my current ride. And I've changed bars, saddles, made adjustments, etc since then. Fortunately, the fit is still good, but I could just as easily have screwed it up. In my opinion, anybody who just got a fitting, and rides away, arms locked, probably didn't get properly fitted regardless of the money spent. Fitting is as much about the opinions and assumptions of the fitter (or fit system) as it is about the rider's body type, flexibility and level of fitness.


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## Gimme Shoulder (Feb 10, 2004)

I've got a riding partner that rides locked out most of the time, constantly shaking out his hands and complaining of numbness. It's not like he doesn't ride much. We've done dozens of centuries together, a couple of doubles, and he's done Markleeville a couple of times. Over the years, I've repeated told him to try moving his saddle back a centimeter, and flip his stem to raise his bars a little - get more balanced over the bike and little more stretched out. But every time he comes back with "I can't do that. I like the bar drop and distance I have" and won't even try it. What's the definition of insanity again?


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## Bob Ross (Apr 18, 2006)

Five good reasons to ride with bent elbows:

1) bent arms will act as shock absorbers; if locked out, every bump & jar goes straight up your arms into the neck & shoulders. Ouch! 
2) bent arms allow you to better maintain control of the bike if you make contact w/ another rider. Try this sometime: Have a buddy ride next to you and bump your arm gently while it's locked straight; notice how your arm pushes the bar & changes the bike's direction. Now try it again w/ bent elbow; notice how your arm simply deflects inward w/o affecting pressure on the bar.
3) when climbing or making hard efforts, bent elbows allow you to recruit the stronger muscles of the back (lats?) as you pull on the bar. With a straight arm, you're instead relying on the weaker traps.
4) bent elbow means your whole torso is slightly lower, ergo slightly more aerodynamic.
5) umm...I forget what #5 is. Okay, so maybe there are only four good reasons.

But #1 is really the most important imho.


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## f3rg (May 11, 2008)

I ride with my elbows slightly bent. I prefer a more stretched out position, so that pretty much means my arms won't be bent much, but I still don't like them fully locked for obvious reasons.


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## kmunny19 (Aug 13, 2008)

rx-79g said:


> I don't think there is any activity where locking a joint (knee, wrist, elbow) is acceptable for any more than a few moments.


exactly. look to motorcycle racing for this one. arm inputs require notably more strength there, and the number one (upper body) rule is never lock the elbows. it creates shaky handling, and physical exhaustion. cyclists can only get away with it (for a time) because of the lower speeds.


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## milkbaby (Aug 14, 2009)

Goodbarsix said:


> Took me 1 minute to find this.


Funny how everybody just ignored that... So many pics of pros have their arms locked straight.


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## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

Also if you notice in the picture...doesn't look like they are riding too hard either

I try to always ride with a slight bend in my elbows.

My elbows are locked if...I'm totally relaxed or completely blown out.


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## MisterC (May 26, 2007)

People lock their arms out when they are fatigued and recovering or resting. I'll bet you guys do it too without even noticing. It's not proper form, decidedly, but its like holding a weight with your elbow bent vs letting it hang to the floor. It's easier to let your bone structure suport the weight for a while. Its not necessarily anything to do with a bad fit. We can all sit up high enough to lock our elbows if we want.

The truth is that none of us hold constantly good form or any position at all while we ride. It's constant adjustments and shifting around to manage fatigue. Locking your elbows is just that. If I'm riding on the rivet, does that mean my saddle is adjusted too far back and should be moved forward or that my frame is the wrong size? Of course not.


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