# Difference between riding a Knobby MTB on asphalt vs a Roadbike/Hybrid Roadie?



## john5220 (Feb 23, 2014)

sold my 29er Fuji Nevada 1.6 last week.

Major issues with brakes and stuff and hence not going disk brakes again. Looking for V brake now that I can handle myself.

Need to know how big of a difference am I going to feel on this thin tire roadie? I am looking more into the Fuji Absolute Hybrid series since they are essentially road bikes with flatbar handles. 

Want to use it for work which is 4 miles away and maybe Cinema which is 8 miles away. I am a obese man at 250 pounds and 5' 11"

Really need to know how much easier is it to ride a roadie and or hybrid vs a knobby fat tire heavy MTB


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## Thiel (May 22, 2012)

It's gonna be much faster and easier to ride. Especially if you high pressure the tires.


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## john5220 (Feb 23, 2014)

wow thats nice to know that selling my hardtail was a good idea.

Investing in tubes and tires for it was not worth it and I only lost 12% of the total cost of it anyways I think I got a pretty good deal on it.

Question should I get a Fuji Absolute series of a roadbike like the Fuji Sportiff series?

I think the absolute hybrids are a better deal as they come much cheaper than the roadies. What you guys think?

BTW what about those diamond backs hybrids on Amazon going for $450?
Diamond Back is as good as similar priced Trek and Specialized and Fuji?


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## DasBoost (Aug 15, 2013)

john5220 said:


> sold my 29er Fuji Nevada 1.6 last week.
> 
> Major issues with brakes and stuff and hence not going disk brakes again. Looking for V brake now that I can handle myself.
> 
> ...


You'll have a much easier time with a hybrid or a road bike over a MTB, even one with commuter tires.

The Fuji Absolute 2.1 that I got my mom for Christmas is very much a blend of MTB and road bike. Triple crankset and wide MTB-esque gearing, upright riding position, linear-pull front brake, and 32 tires. Frame is a step-through city/commuter style. 



john5220 said:


> wow thats nice to know that selling my hardtail was a good idea.
> 
> Investing in tubes and tires for it was not worth it and I only lost 12% of the total cost of it anyways I think I got a pretty good deal on it.
> 
> ...


The Sportif will have more of a road bike geometry and less-upright riding position compared to the Absolute and have slightly narrower tires (I think 28s will fit the Sportif, whereas the Absolute has 32s). She tried both the Sportif and Absolute and said the Sportif would be the one she chose if she was 30 years younger and reminded her of her old Peugeot; for her trying to get back into cycling and get into shape, she (and her back) appreciate the more upright position of the Absolute and its fatter tires and easier ride. 

Biggest difference between the two is riding position; one will be closer to the MTB and the other is a lower road bike position.

I haven't ridden any of the Diamondback hybrids, but they seem nice as far as components for the pricepoint, sort of like how Fuji is.


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## john5220 (Feb 23, 2014)

wow its nice to see someone who have a fuji absolute 2.1 its the exact bike I am currently looking into buying.

Can you tell me if its MATTE Black? is the paint actually MATTE?

Also will it hold up as good as the Absolute 1.1? does a bike simply become a bike at a price point sooner or later?

also I see the fork is Steel will it rust? or is the paint so good I need not worry?


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## Thiel (May 22, 2012)

FWIW ... I hopped back on my road bike at 5' 11" and 230 pounds, so not far from where you are. The lowered riding position (which you can adjust with headset spacers...) is definitely a literal pain in the neck for the first rides, but I think you'll appreciate it as you get stronger and go further. If you're just commuting though, ignore me.

I don't know a thing about the bikes you mention, but for my part, I'd really recommend a Cross bike. Gives you the flexibility to ride the road on slicks and then switch out knobbies -- or studded! -- tires to take on other challenges. Gives you lots of flexibility and will still have the speed/ease of a road/hybrid vs. an mtb.

Just took my cross with studs out yesterday in the slush. Fun!


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## john5220 (Feb 23, 2014)

I am trying to understand the physics of roadbikes vs MTB

What makes a roadie so much easier to ride and makes it so much quicker. And what is the difference between 23mm tires and 32mm found on some roadies.

What does it feel like? what can you use to compare the difference? what other real world examples?

I mean like Richard Dawkins said that idiots who believe the earth is 6000 years old because the bible said so is equivalent to believing that North America is 8 yards. Thats the gravity of the miscalculation on just how off it is. 

Also are there equations and maths involved in this? LOL


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## DasBoost (Aug 15, 2013)

john5220 said:


> wow its nice to see someone who have a fuji absolute 2.1 its the exact bike I am currently looking into buying.
> 
> Can you tell me if its MATTE Black? is the paint actually MATTE?
> 
> ...


I wouldn't be able to tell you as she has the white women's model.:blush2: The biggest jump between the 2.1 and the 1.7 is the move from 8spd and aluminum frame/steel fork to 9spd and aluminum frame/aluminum fork and the 2.1 has 32 spoke wheels front and rear with 32c tires while the 1.7 has 28 front/32 rear 28c tires. The drivetrain components are a nice upgrade in the 1.7 but it's $160 more than the 2.1. Performance Bike often runs sales or the store itself may have a 2013 on closeout for less than the 2014 msrp. I'd say head down to a store and ride both the Absolute, including the 2.1 and 1.7, and the various levels of the Sportif. 



john5220 said:


> I am trying to understand the physics of roadbikes vs MTB
> 
> What makes a roadie so much easier to ride and makes it so much quicker. And what is the difference between 23mm tires and 32mm found on some roadies.
> 
> ...


The geometry of a hybrid will be have a riding position similar to that of a mtb, a more upright seating position while a road bike is generally a little more stretched forward and has the person in a lower position, best analogy I can think of is a chopper compared to a sportbike. 23c tires will be narrow, under an inch wide, while 32c tires will be pretty wide and comfortable at just over an inch and a quarter. Not wide by MTB standards, but with no knobs you've still got a nice contact patch and smooth ride. 

As far as equations and maths, I'd say there isn't anything specific, just really depends on personal preference and how you feel on the bike. Again, I'd go to a shop and test ride as many as you can and feel the differences between a hybrid/commuter/urban/city bike and a drop bar road bike. It's a bit tough for me to type the differences but when you get riding it's far more evident haha. Good luck, I was in your same situation a little over a year ago; I ended up putting 26" commuter road tires on my old MTB when I first started riding and saving for a new bike.


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## Thiel (May 22, 2012)

john5220 said:


> I am trying to understand the physics of roadbikes vs MTB
> 
> What makes a roadie so much easier to ride and makes it so much quicker. And what is the difference between 23mm tires and 32mm found on some roadies.
> 
> What does it feel like? what can you use to compare the difference? what other real world examples?


It's ultimately about friction, flexibility, and gearing. 

Harder, smoother tires offer less rolling resistance. You will probably not want something so narrow as 23c (but that's what I ride). They feel solid when inflated to high pressure.

A more rigid frame without suspension means the energy you put into the pedal gets put more directly into the wheels, rather than being dissipated in the suspension. 

Gearing on a road bike is more narrow, with less difference between sequential shifts; this allows you to establish a cadence and keep it steady by giving you the gearing you need to adjust effort for even subtle changes in road grade.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Thiel said:


> It's ultimately about friction, flexibility, and gearing.
> 
> Harder, smoother tires offer less rolling resistance. You will probably not want something so narrow as 23c (but that's what I ride). * They feel solid when inflated to high pressure.
> *


If that's the case you're over inflating your tires.


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## Thiel (May 22, 2012)

cxwrench said:


> If that's the case you're over inflating your tires.


I raced for many years before getting fat and slow. While I understand that the current fashion is running tires at lower pressure, it doesn't feel right to me and it is, ultimately, a matter of personal preference. It also means that I almost never get flat tires, despite doing a fair bit of gravel grinding on my Supersix.


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## john5220 (Feb 23, 2014)

thanks guys and yeah I hate soft tires. I love super hard tires because it provides more rolling on the wheels before it slows down I find if its not super inflated it gives too much rolling resistance. 

BTW the fuji 2.1 that your wife has is it matte paint?

Check this out its the google images link for the 2.1 absolute. It links back direct to fuji site but notice something at the end of it?

FUJI_Absolute_2.1_Matte_Black_FRONT.jpg

This is what google is picking up from the direct image on fuji website this is what leads me to believe its matte even though fuji don't directly say if its matte on their description. 

And if you look at the pic closely it actually looks like MATTE on my monitor screen. 

https://www.google.tt/search?q=fuji...es.com%2Fbike%2Fdetails%2Fabsolute-21;900;544


BTW can anyone tell me the difference with cheaper vs more expensive drive trains?

What makes a more expensive derailleur better?


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## john5220 (Feb 23, 2014)

also anyone has any taughts on this?

Amazon.com: Diamondback Bicycles 2014 Insight 1 Performance Hybrid Bike with 700c Wheels: Sports & Outdoors

heard diamond back isn't as good as trek and specialized etc

But when I look at the components they seem to be the same. Anything in particular I am missing? maybe it has a cheapo BB or something?

Also I am 5 feet 11 inches and Amazon only has 18 and 20 inches no 19. 
Wonders if this would fit me.

Its the main reason I don't want to buy a bike online and prefer checking out one at my local bike shop. I am from the Caribbean so not so much choices like in the US, I have to wait for my local fuji dealer to get in stock.


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## Thiel (May 22, 2012)

You should know that there is a theory that less or lower inflated tires actually have less rolling resistance. The idea is that the tire that is not as hard will simply morph around a small pebble or D formation in the road, rather than being displaced by it.


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## john5220 (Feb 23, 2014)

hmmmm I actually had no idea of this.


First time I am hearing this. Is this a confirmed thing?


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## Thiel (May 22, 2012)

It's a bit of a religious debate. Makes sense to me, but I still ride hard tires


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## DasBoost (Aug 15, 2013)

john5220 said:


> wow its nice to see someone who have a fuji absolute 2.1 its the exact bike I am currently looking into buying.
> 
> Can you tell me if its MATTE Black? is the paint actually MATTE?
> 
> ...





john5220 said:


> thanks guys and yeah I hate soft tires. I love super hard tires because it provides more rolling on the wheels before it slows down I find if its not super inflated it gives too much rolling resistance.
> 
> BTW the fuji 2.1 that your mom has is it matte paint?
> 
> ...


Nah, my mom's is gloss white and silver with black lettering. The black one you linked to looks more like a satin finish than just a flat/'matte' paint. Not shiny and glossy but a little tiny shine to it so it's not flat like a chalkboard or spraypaint. If you go into Performance Bike, ask to see the catalog and it will show the color options and have a little square with the color, almost like a car brochure, at least the one the rep used to order her bike from. 

The more expensive drivetrain will have have more speeds (7, 8, or 9 on the Absolute models I believe from the 3.0 to 1.1) and higher end components in the sense of less plastic and higher up the product line offering. A lot of the overall components are up-rated as well, usually better brakes, saddle, tires.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

IMO
I would have kept the 29er. Put some narrower hybrid tires and continued to ride it for the commute

Then set a goal for weight loss.... Then, once met, reward with a road bike or cross bike


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## john5220 (Feb 23, 2014)

^ LOL funny enough that was exactly my plan. 

Problems started with the garbage promax branded hydraulic disk brakes rubbing on the rotors. Seemed to be an issue that was near impossible to fix and even the bike shop took atleast 4 tries to fix it. 

Even if I go roadie I am still 100 pounds overweight. I am carrying around 100 pounds of FAT. Imagine thats like transporting a bag of cement on your bike right. I can imagine how nice it would be to ride slim and fit must be fast and easy I bet.

Currently it takes me 30 minutes to ride 4 miles.

But what is done is done and I believe this is a great opportunity to spend the cash more wisely with an abundance of knowledge now rather than what I had.

My main aim is to avoid any disk brake what so ever 

Plus the 33 pounder 29er MTB was difficult for me to carry up the stairs. A decent 23 pounder hybrid or roadie will be much easier for me to handle.

My chinese rusted mtb is currently on its last limb. Its 2 years old and hardly ridden however the back axle is worn out and the back wheel waggles insane you can even see it moving out of the cone. Front stem and stuff is gone to the dogs those Chinese trash bikes are really bad.

Its what you would pay $100 US for in America I believe. 

I am just using it till the LBS gets in stock. I wonder though if a 32mm hybrid tire would be better for me rather than a 25mm roadie since I am obese and there are a couple humps and pot holes on my route to work?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

john5220 said:


> hmmmm I actually had no idea of this.
> 
> 
> First time I am hearing this. Is this a confirmed thing?





Thiel said:


> It's a bit of a religious debate. Makes sense to me, but I still ride hard tires


Damn, do both of you live in caves w/ no internet and you're just getting out now? How you inflate your tires is personal preference, but the physics of the question state that a tire at 120psi WILL be slower than a tire at somewhat less (90-100, possibly less...depends on rider weight and tire size) pressure. It also says that a tire at the proper (lower) pressure WILL be more comfortable and it WILL have better cornering traction. These are facts, and there is no debate. Whether you like it better or not is up to you. Seems like a no-brainer to me...

Rock hard tires (over 110 or so psi) will not conform to road surface irregularities as well as a somewhat softer tires. The wheel, the bike, and the rider will spend more time going up and down and need more energy to go forward compared to the properly inflated tires. Sinch the casing will flex less, cornering traction will be reduced and rely more completely on 'mechanical grip', which is grip provided by the rubber on the tread of the tire. The tire _is the suspension on a rigid road bike_...it needs to work if it's going to provide the best traction available.


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## Thiel (May 22, 2012)

I live in a lovely cave. In it we are taught that there are lots of variances like rubber composition, rider weight, tire volume, route characteristics, and road surface conditions. I was raised on ultra rigid bikes so what apparently feels harsh to you feels like home to me. Only Sith deal in absolutes. 

Also we are taught not to make assumptions. I ride at 100 psi. 

Lastly the type of rolling resistance advantages you cite are meaningful for racers. I am not a racer. 

This thread is in the beginners corner so how about relaxing and tossing a bone to us cave dwellers?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Thiel said:


> I live in a lovely cave. In it we are taught that there are lots of variances like rubber composition, rider weight, tire volume, route characteristics, and road surface conditions. I was raised on ultra rigid bikes so what apparently feels harsh to you feels like home to me. Only Sith deal in absolutes.
> 
> Also we are taught not to make assumptions. I ride at 100 psi.
> 
> ...


Here's your bone...

How much do you weigh? Obviously it makes a difference. Why don't we start off w/ that? 

You are correct in believing that the differences in rolling resistance are minimal, but they are there. The thing that I don't understand is why a rider wouldn't want more cornering traction and a better ride. "It's always felt fine to me..." 
It's free to try it, why wouldn't you? If you haven't solely because you think you're satisfied w/ the ride quality you have now, you are not even really qualified to comment. Also, what kind of 'ultra rigid' bikes are you talking about?


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

So... since you owned a bike with the worst disc brakes ever, you decide that you'll never have disc brakes again? You realize that almost every other disc brake works fine, right? That is some ridiculous logic you're using there.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Thiel said:


> It's a bit of a religious debate. Makes sense to me, but I still ride hard tires


Nothing religious about it. It's science, physics in fact. There is no debate, just people who don't understand physics. 



Thiel said:


> In it we are taught that there are lots of variances like rubber composition, rider weight, tire volume, route characteristics, and road surface conditions.


You're needlessly complicating the issue. If we're talking tire pressure, why would you throw in all those variables? 

The simple point is... all things being equal... (bike, tire composition, rider weight, road conditions) running at the proper lower pressure is more comfortable, better cornering, and faster. 



> I was raised on ultra rigid bikes so what apparently feels harsh to you feels like home to me. Only Sith deal in absolutes.


Physics/Mathematics deals in absolutes. 1+1 = 2



> This thread is in the beginners corner so how about relaxing and tossing a bone to us cave dwellers?


So what's wrong with educating beginners on proper tire pressure?


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

Math also deals with imaginary numbers.


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## Thiel (May 22, 2012)

Gents: I think I was quite clear that logic and science was not on my side, but that personal preference is my prerogative. Also, I think I pointed out that some assumptions had been made about both my tire pressure and my weight, and I'd think you apparently science minded folks would have been all over that. 

Yes, physics and math deals in absolutes (that's why all those things are called laws and not theories, right? . Now let's assume that the bike is a perfectly smooth frictionless sphere, in a vacuum....

We could easily be having the same debate about carbon and steel... And I still wouldn't care who wins.


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## john5220 (Feb 23, 2014)

got my new bike today wasn't a road bike but was a MTB with Hybrid Tires. Fits the bill quite lovely for me

Its a Giant revel 3

I am so happy with it.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

john5220 said:


> got my new bike today wasn't a road bike but was a MTB with Hybrid Tires. Fits the bill quite lovely for me
> 
> Its a Giant revel 3
> 
> ...


Yeah.... I'm done with you.


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## Thiel (May 22, 2012)

Nice john... Enjoy it!


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## Thiel (May 22, 2012)

cxwrench said:


> Here's your bone...
> 
> How much do you weigh? Obviously it makes a difference. Why don't we start off w/ that?
> 
> ...


I realized I never answered your questions directly, and I like to do that:

-- You told me my tires were too hard without knowing my weight, what PSI I use, or even any general impression of what a "hard" pressure is in this context--a context which compares MTB knobbies to road tires, I might add! I currently weigh 200# and ride a SuperSix Rival on the road, a Trek Fuel full squish for NE singletrack, and a Felt 65 CX bike specifically set up for long tours like the D2R2. I keep my tire pressure on the supersix at about 100-110psi and I prefer this pressure even (perhaps especially) when my rides cut through dirt and gravel sections. Obviously MTB and CX tire pressures vary wildly based on conditions.

-- You assumed I made my comments without trying out lower pressures. Yes, it is free to try it, and I have on many occasions over many years. I keep pretty careful track of my tire pressures and have even on occasion stopped mid-ride to adjust them based on changing conditions. I've been riding for many years and even raced for quite a few. 

-- As for 'ultra rigid'... my first bike was a Cannondale racing frame with the original (prototype) criterium geometry; I bought it off a c'dale team racer. Stiff as hell. My second bike was an original C'dale CAAD3; look it up... it was so stiff that they redesigned the frame after a year (and also so stiff that one of their pros refused to adopt a new bike the following year). And yes, I rode stiff wheels--which matter a great deal. 

-- You ignored the fact that I ride 23c which I assume is also "wrong" in your book since larger volume tires have also been shown (according to the "laws" of physics) to sometimes offer better rolling resistance.


Again, this is a beginner forum and the questions being asked--in this thread in particular--are a far cry from wind tunnels, heart rate training, and rolling resistance calculations. We're talking about knobbies vs. slicks!


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## john5220 (Feb 23, 2014)

PlatyPius said:


> So... since you owned a bike with the worst disc brakes ever, you decide that you'll never have disc brakes again? You realize that almost every other disc brake works fine, right? That is some ridiculous logic you're using there.


Wasn't just that. If you look around the net and on youtube you will see bike mechanics showing you how to adjust your caliper saying MOST people bringing in their bikes to his shop complains about calipers rubbing on the rotors.

I came to this conclusion based on a lot of other things not just my personal experience with disk brakes.

Not to mention V Brakes are atleast 1000 times easier to install and maintain not to mention they are MUCH CHEAPER than Disk Brakes. I admit they don't hold as nice as my last disk brakes however why would I get disk brakes for a commuter? it serves me absolutely no purpose when V brakes does the Job just wonderful without all the headaches. 

The only time I may get disk brakes bike is from some Muslim guy I know who happens to be the Local Cannondale authorized distributor he has Mechanics who has some kind of technical certification as bike mechanics. Its basically an American standard of service you would find locally.


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