# Should power meters be banned in competition?



## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

People have been complaining that cycling is becoming boring. This year for the Tour we saw Chris Froome just staring at the computer on his stem for most of the race. In the Vuelta Horner played a similar game. The Angrilu particularly comes to mind where Nibali tried to tempt Horner to follow his attacks but he ignored him and just stared at his power numbers.

This begs the question, should we ban power meters to make racing more exciting? I think this would be particularly interesting in the grand tours. This would be something akin to Formula 1 banning ABS systems in order to put more emphasis on rider skill. In bike racing, know your body is a skill and power meters make your job easier in that respect.


----------



## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Froome doesn't duck his head like that to look at his power meter, it's just something he does out of habit. These guys know what they can/can't do at any given time. Banning power meters would do nothing to change the way riders rode in the race (Nibali cites his numbers all the time in interviews..), it would just take away a diagnostic tool for post race analysis and make mechanics have to hang more ballast on the bikes to make minimum weight.


----------



## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

davidka said:


> ... it would just take away a diagnostic tool for post race analysis and make mechanics have to hang more ballast on the bikes to make minimum weight.


Not necessarily. The PMs could be record-only such that any data was viewable only upon download after the ride. I'm not advocating that. I'm just pointing it out as possibility. Personally, I know power can be extremely helpful during a TT. And of course many have been bemoaning Team Sky's robotic ride-by-number style of racing, whether justified or not.


----------



## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

davidka said:


> These guys know what they can/can't do at any given time. Banning power meters would do nothing to change the way riders rode in the race


I highly disagree here. Everyone makes mistakes now and then. You could argue the same thing about Formula 1 drivers and ABS but they lock their wheels every now and again.


----------



## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

you should go back and watch some of the Tour stages - Froome's attacks on Ventoux were some of the most aggressive riding from the yellow jersey ever. Other riders (e.g., Quintana and Rodriguez) also provided plenty of animated racing.

Horner's powermeter didn't stop him from dropping Nibali.

Racing is boring when guys like Wiggins have the yellow jersey because he can only climb at one speed and it's basically an uphill team time trial. Riders, not powermeters, make races exciting or boring...



deviousalex said:


> People have been complaining that cycling is becoming boring. This year for the Tour we saw Chris Froome just staring at the computer on his stem for most of the race. In the Vuelta Horner played a similar game. The Angrilu particularly comes to mind where Nibali tried to tempt Horner to follow his attacks but he ignored him and just stared at his power numbers.
> 
> This begs the question, should we ban power meters to make racing more exciting? I think this would be particularly interesting in the grand tours. This would be something akin to Formula 1 banning ABS systems in order to put more emphasis on rider skill. In bike racing, know your body is a skill and power meters make your job easier in that respect.


----------



## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

No they need to ban race radios or take them away from the team directors. Riders don't have to think anymore they just do what the voice in the headset tells them to do. As the technology improves for them to have live telemetry in the team cars its only going to get worse.


----------



## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

The 'should we ban powermeters' sentiment is always proposed by someone who's probably never raced and certainly never used a powermeter. Any racer knows you're racing against your competition, not yourself. Either you can go faster than the guy next to you or you can't. Should we get rid of HR monitors too? Speedometers? 

The only place a PM is helpful is during a TT or solo breakaway (not a group break). Even then, anyone who's good enough to ride at the protour knows exactly how hard they are going in a TT, electronics or not.


----------



## Troutstalker (Dec 28, 2013)

I would like to have access to a rider's in race telemetry. That would bring another element to the viewing audience. Then allow for viewers to listen in on race radios a la NASCAR. That would put us right in the middle of the action.


----------



## 3DKiwi (Dec 1, 2012)

I thought Froome spent most of his time staring at his headset to reduce wind resistance.

I agree, Froome's attack on Ventoux was awesome not to mention damn good entertainment.


----------



## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

This is the last thing I'd want to see. It's technology open to anyone.


----------



## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

deviousalex said:


> I highly disagree here. Everyone makes mistakes now and then. You could argue the same thing about Formula 1 drivers and ABS but they lock their wheels every now and again.


A more fair analogy would be f1 cars without tachometers and rev limiters but it's still not comparable. Power is only one indicator. To use the equipment in the way you're proposing would also require them to be able to consider HR and core body temperature. Power meters are not causing the racing to happen the way you're seeing it. Just good tactics applied by riders who know their strengths very well.


----------



## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

kbiker3111 said:


> The only place a PM is helpful is during a TT or solo breakaway (not a group break). Even then, anyone who's good enough to ride at the protour knows exactly how hard they are going in a TT, electronics or not.


So that a pretty laughable statement, you need to go back and watch some of the older TTs where riders clearly start to hard and then blow up.


----------



## JackDaniels (Oct 4, 2011)

I don't think the managers should be able to watch their HR and power numbers and have radio contact.


----------



## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

3DKiwi said:


> I thought Froome spent most of his time staring at his headset to reduce wind resistance...


When I stare at my headset I have to lift my head so it's in focus in my bifocals.

I raced motorcycles and virtually never looked at the tach or spedo on the track, but racing motorcycles and bicycles is obviously way different. On the motorcycle, full power is there whenever and for as long as you want. Riding a bike it isn't and you need to mete out and conserve your effort intelligently. Responding to every attack can sap your reserves. Knowing that what the opponent is doing is unsustainable based on knowing quantitatively what you're doing and you've historically been able to maintain is very useful knowledge. You can go by feel, but you can train by feel too, and I think most will agree that quantitative is significantly better.


----------



## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

kbiker3111 said:


> The 'should we ban powermeters' sentiment is always proposed by someone who's probably never raced and certainly never used a powermeter.


Actually, I own one and do race as well. I raced a mass start hill climb the other day without it and I made many mistakes that a power meter I believe could have stopped me from doing.

So let's cut out the passive-aggressive personal attacks/sweeping generalizations ok


----------



## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

looigi said:


> When I stare at my headset I have to lift my head so it's in focus in my bifocals.
> 
> I raced motorcycles and virtually never looked at the tach or spedo on the track, but racing motorcycles and bicycles is obviously way different. On the motorcycle, full power is there whenever and for as long as you want. Riding a bike it isn't and you need to mete out and conserve your effort intelligently. Responding to every attack can sap your reserves. Knowing that what the opponent is doing is unsustainable based on knowing quantitatively what you're doing and you've historically been able to maintain is very useful knowledge. You can go by feel, but you can train by feel too, and I think most will agree that quantitative is significantly better.


I think you hit everything. Any time one can use any sort of quantitative analysis instrument, it takes A LOT of the guess work out of estimating sustainable power. If you don't have quantitative instrument, then it makes it much harder to estimate your opponent's effort, and if your opponents attack, you will have to decide if you want to go with him (and possibly blow up) or just sit back (knowing that your opponents will blow up); and this is easier to guess if you know how much power you're producing. Sure, you can go by perceived effort, but preceived effort is not precise. This makes the in-race decision much much more critical, especially when there is an attack. So it'll make racing more dynamic IMO.

Take away the power meters, HR monitors, and radios, and I'll bet may pro's in the peloton will feel they're racing "naked". Doesn't matter if they're pro's and that they've been training for a decade, they all make mistakes when operating on the extremes. There have been many many times when a seasoned pro endurance athlete blows up because he went to hard too early.

Also, I think taking away the PM's, HR monitors, radios, it will make the risk/reward of the breakaway or early attackers much more interesting. Guys who decide not "to go" and sit back will have ask themselves, "should I go or sit back". Decision will be more difficult now.

But I think in the end, the results will be mostly the same, but how they get to the results (i.e., in race dynamics) will definitely be more interesting.


----------



## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

aclinjury said:


> Take away the power meters, HR monitors, and radios, and I'll bet may pro's in the peloton will feel they're racing "naked". Doesn't matter if they're pro's and that they've been training for a decade, they all make mistakes when operating on the extremes.


I agree, saying that pro's know themselves 100% is incorrect, no one does. 

I disagree with removing race radios because of safety. I was talking to a DS for a US pro team and he says when he wants to tell one of his riders something he has to get past all the other cars and dangerously close to some of the cyclists.


----------



## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

In terms of increasing the show, it would be a marginal gain (see, what i just did there?). Reducing (by 1) the number of riders per team in grand tours might be more effective, if not optimal, way of achieving this as well.


----------



## B.Garcia (Nov 21, 2011)

If you want to make the race more interesting I think we should have live in race feed. Like show what it is like riding in a peloton of a grand tour! Or any other big racing event! And I'm not talking about little bits here and there. We have the technology for that. Go-pros have come a long way.


----------



## ozzybmx (Jun 23, 2013)

PM's, HRM's ect dont really matter too much, a race is a race but the banning of team race radios would make it more exciting.

These days they just sit in the peleton knowing what their position is going to be as the whole GC is worked out for the riders.


----------



## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

If we want to make the races more exciting, take the brakes off the bikes. Now that would separate the men from the boys.


----------



## MercRidnMike (Dec 19, 2006)

Ok, I'll preface my comments by saying I am not a racer, but I do have a HRM and speed/cadence sensor on my bikes and I do use "virtual power" for training (I don't actually have a power meter at this point).

Personally, I see the analogy to Formula 1 racing pretty close to spot on for pro cycling. Someone on the sidelines calls the shots, knows what's goings on all over the course, knows where "the other guy" is, can monitor the car (cyclist) and can radio info to the driver. Realistically, both are regulated to almost he same levels too. 

From the outside, both have become a game of chess where the guy with the headset "in the pits" is the player and the drivers/cyclists (as long as they can deliver on the performance) are merely interchangeable pawns. If the public were in on the "chess game" it might make it more exciting...otherwise, I'd agree that taking away some of the "toys" and putting the riders "in the driver's seat" again might be better.


----------



## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

ozzybmx said:


> These days they just sit in the peleton knowing what their position is going to be as the whole GC is worked out for the riders.


You don't watch racing very much apparently..

Everyone knows where the critical points of the race will be. 200 guys are on 2-lane roads with a DS in their ear telling them to move up in time for a climb or a section of cross-wind. The GC is worked out by teams and riders who assert themselves against professionals trying to do exactly the same thing. They're doing anything but "sitting there".


----------



## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

The OP's suggestion reminds me of the thread where it was suggested we ban electronic shifting from competition because it saves the rider's energy even though that difference is negligible. Banning power meters wouldn't do this sport any favors.


----------



## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

SauronHimself said:


> The OP's suggestion reminds me of the thread where it was suggested we ban electronic shifting from competition because it saves the rider's energy even though that difference is negligible. Banning power meters wouldn't do this sport any favors.


IMO, electronic shifting is unrelated to and has no bearing on the question of power meters, radios, GPS or anything else, as those are not part of the function of the bike and need not function for the bike to be rideable. Perhaps OT, but I'm against electronic shifting too. IMO, bikes are mechanical human powered devices and should be completely functional and rideable without ever having been plugged in or charged up. .

Where it would start to get fuzzy would be if the power for electronic shifting was provided by a dynamo hub or something, which certainly would be feasible, but you'd still have electronics and software as part of the equation. 

I'm just stating my position. I'm not arguing or defending it.


----------



## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

I say more technology on the bikes. Power meters for every bike. Telemetry. Cameras etc. all open for broadcast. Going backwards would only lose fans not gain any.

My stance on electronic shift, Its great I intend to put it on everyone of my bikes.


----------



## Guest (Jan 5, 2014)

. The riders on the Podium could have their pictures taken today. From a commercial standpoint that works out well.


----------



## dysfunction (Apr 2, 2010)

davidka said:


> You don't watch racing very much apparently..
> 
> Everyone knows where the critical points of the race will be. 200 guys are on 2-lane roads with a DS in their ear telling them to move up in time for a climb or a section of cross-wind. The GC is worked out by teams and riders who assert themselves against professionals trying to do exactly the same thing. They're doing anything but "sitting there".


True, but it's still a far cry from the days of "la course en tête" racing... Ok, even if it wasn't widely practiced in "it's day".


----------

