# What does "Runs large" mean?



## theo3000 (Oct 5, 2010)

I'm trying to decide upon the correct size Ti frame to get, and I see a lot of comments saying that the sizes "run large."

Does that mean the frame is larger than one would typically expect, and that I should choose the smaller size?


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## martywoodman (Jan 10, 2010)

*do the research*

Theo,
I purchased a Moto ti bike after plugging my measurements into an online bicycle fit calculator and comparing the results to the geometry and frame sizes available on the bikesdirect website. I had owned a 59cm Windsor Wellington 3.0 which worked very well, and I also purchased the Moto ti heat in a 59cm. Turns out the feel is quite similar. If you or anyone else is serious about purchasing online, I advise you to try one of the fit calculators online. Good luck!


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## theo3000 (Oct 5, 2010)

martywoodman said:


> Theo,
> I purchased a Moto ti bike after plugging my measurements into an online bicycle fit calculator and comparing the results to the geometry and frame sizes available on the bikesdirect website. I had owned a 59cm Windsor Wellington 3.0 which worked very well, and I also purchased the Moto ti heat in a 59cm. Turns out the feel is quite similar. If you or anyone else is serious about purchasing online, I advise you to try one of the fit calculators online. Good luck!


Thanks for the advice. Are you saying that dimensions on your delivered frame match those on the chart?

The thing is I already know what my size is. The problem is that I fall between the 51 and the 53 on the ti geometry chart, so the "runs large" info becomes particularly relevent.

Unfortunately, I still don't know what the hell is running large. :mad2:

If the dimensions on an actual frame is the same as those stated on the MB/BD site, then I could make an informed decision based upon that, but all the "runs large" comments lead me to believe the actual dimensions are different from the chart. I just don't know which way.

Thanks


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## sgalante (May 5, 2009)

Theo, I think the answer to your question could be summed up like this. I believe the Motobecane bikes tend to run a little large for their designated size quoted. I know that sounds like I didn't really answer your question, but here is an example. Many people who already have a bike may know the "size" of that particular bike, for example I used to own a 54cm Trek. You would think that when the time comes to purchase a new bike I would look for another 54cm framed bike. That may not be the case, even if the bike I was looking for was offered in a 54cm size. 2 different manufacturers may make 54cm bikes that vary in some of their critical dimensions.

For examples sake, let's compare a Trek Madone 6.2 to a Motobecane Le Champion CF Ltd. Both bikes are available in a 54cm frame size. Looking at one of the dimensions that would be a deciding point for me, since I have short legs, is that the StandOverHeight (SOH) for the Trek is 73.3 cm (28.8 inches) and the SOH for the Motobecane is 75 cm (29.5 inches) That 3/4 of an inch or so makes a big difference for me with my short legs. In my case, if I wanted that particular Motobecane, I would order the 51cm frame size. Even that one has a slightly higher SOH than the Trek Madone 6.2.

I hope that helped clear it up a little.


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## theo3000 (Oct 5, 2010)

sgalante said:


> ...
> 
> I hope that helped clear it up a little.


A little, but I really just need to know what "runs large" means when you're talking about something that doesn't have a size.

I'm going to have to assume that the dimensions on BD's chart are accurate, and that "runs large" means some people bought too big a frame.

I know how a sweater can run large, a size small is closer to a medium; but I don't want to assume that a 54cm top tube is closer to 56cm based upon the same "logic."


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## sgalante (May 5, 2009)

Theo, I think you missed my point. Dimensions are dimensions. If it says a TT is 54cm, then it is 54cm. What we are seeing in many frames to day, is a slightly sloped top tube. So most manufacturers list an effective top tube length. In the case of the Motobecane 53cm Titanium bikes that length is 55cm. So as you can see, on the Motobecane, you may be stretched out a little more than on a 53cm bike that lists a shorter effective Top Tube Length. Like I said in my last post, in the case of the Motobecanes, it seems like they also tend to have a taller Stand over height than a similarly sized (as in bikes that are listed as 54cm or whatever) bikes. You just have to look at the dimensions. Pretty much every manufacturer has "sizes". Motobecane lists 48, 51, 53, 56, 59 as sized for their Titanium bikes. Where sizes get tricky is where some list their sizes as S, M, L, XL. There, you really have look at the list of dimensions.

View attachment 234460


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## robpar (Jan 26, 2008)

theo3000 said:


> A little, but I really just need to know what "runs large" means when you're talking about something that doesn't have a size.
> 
> I'm going to have to assume that the dimensions on BD's chart are accurate, and that "runs large" means some people bought too big a frame.
> 
> I know how a sweater can run large, a size small is closer to a medium; but I don't want to assume that a 54cm top tube is closer to 56cm based upon the same "logic."


for example: a 56 moto has a TT that is 572, which is larger than a typical 56. Most 56 cm bikes have a TT around 555-565 mm.
What the chart DOES NOT tell you is the head tube length, which is also a very critical fitting dim... email them and ask what dims you need...


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## aser (Jun 16, 2011)

It's like buying a pair of jeans at gap vs j crew. Both might say 30 regular fit, but they will fit differently. One company's sizing might run larger than typical sizing of other brands. Get it?


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## dr4cats (Aug 8, 2010)

I ride 2 Specialized bikes in 54cm and my Motobecane TI le Champion Heat is a 53cm which fits me perfectly. Just compare effective top tube lengths. Then make your decision based on that. The reach is very important.


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## mochodurazo (Jul 21, 2011)

Im in the same spot as Theo.... with a MB Ti, im between 51 & 53 frames.

with a help of a friend, we mesuare and did the "competitve cyclist test" here are my results in cm:

Measurements
-------------------------------------------
Inseam: 81
Trunk: 65.7
Forearm: 34
Arm: 63.2
Thigh: 63.8
Lower Leg: 57
Sternal Notch: 141
Total Body Height: 173


The Competitive Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 52.4 - 52.9
Seat tube range c-t: 54.1 - 54.6
Top tube length: 53.7 - 54.1
Stem Length: 11.2 - 11.8
BB-Saddle Position: 69.3 - 71.3
Saddle-Handlebar: 52.4 - 53.0
Saddle Setback: 4.8 - 5.2


The Eddy Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 53.6 - 54.1
*Seat tube range c-t: 55.3 - 55.8
Top tube length: 53.7 - 54.1* <----------------------------
Stem Length: 10.1 - 10.7
BB-Saddle Position: 68.5 - 70.5
Saddle-Handlebar: 53.2 - 53.8
Saddle Setback: 6.0 - 6.4


The French Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 55.3 - 55.8
Seat tube range c-t: 57.0 - 57.5
Top tube length: 54.9 - 55.3
Stem Length: 10.3 - 10.9
BB-Saddle Position: 66.8 - 68.8
Saddle-Handlebar: 54.9 - 55.5
Saddle Setback: 5.5 - 5.9



As you can see, my C-T is less than my efective T-T. I pretty sure understand the concept of "Runs large".

My only reference its the only Road bike i've had: SCOTT SPEEDSTER S30, size 52 & efective T-T 53.5 cm and after a year of joy, i found that its a little short for me.

Other thing, Ti frames runs "TALL" higher standover than a le champion CF 54 frame


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## theo3000 (Oct 5, 2010)

I KNOW the size I need. It's how accurate the listed dimensions are that I was concerned about. If the dimensions are accurate, then "runs large" means nothing other than the relative proportions are different than someone expected. If the standover "runs large" then the seat tube / top tube must "run small."

I agree the the CC fitter is the best place to start if you don't already know what to look for, but it's a guide, not a doctrine.


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## andresmuro (Dec 11, 2007)

theo3000 said:


> I'm trying to decide upon the correct size Ti frame to get, and I see a lot of comments saying that the sizes "run large."
> 
> Does that mean the frame is larger than one would typically expect, and that I should choose the smaller size?


They don't run large. They run long compared to most bikes. This is good. They fit better for people with longer torsos. Those with shorter torsos, can get a shorter stem without having to go to an extremely small frame. 

Longer toptubes are fixable with a short stem. If u still don't fit with a short stem, you can go one size smaller. OTOH, shorter toptubes require longer stems. If you get to the longest stem and you go a size larger, you end up with a bike that is way to big. 

They sizing is similar to Trek or waterford or gunnar. They run longer than most italian brands. which have short top tubes.


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