# Clipless on a commuter?



## makeitso (Sep 20, 2008)

I'm starting to consider using my bike for longer distances on the weekend (20+ mi one way) and am wondering if clipless is something I want to look into for the extra efficiency. The problem is two fold in 1) I don't want to have to bring a 2nd pair of shoes everywhere and 2) I probably will want a solution where I can bike in normal shoes as well when I don't want to grab the biking shoes.

Is the swap worth it? Is there clipless shoes that are comfortable walking around / doing errands / wandering around a mall and not clacking everywhere? Is the upgrade worth it for efficiency sake?


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## Hagakure (Jul 12, 2008)

http://www.shimano.com.au/publish/c.../product.-code-PD-A530.-type-pd_mountain.html

Solution for both riding shoes and normal walkin' around shoes


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## perttime (Jun 27, 2005)

Some mountain biking shoes are walkable. You just need to use mountain biking pedals too, as cleats are not compatible between road and mountain shoes.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

*Not faster.*

In a commuter environment, timing a clipless pedal ride versus an otherwise identical platform pedal ride will quickly show you that efficiency gains from being clipped in range from very small to non-existent. But at high speeds and very high cadences, being clipped in just feels better and might also be safer.

In my view, the big problem with platform pedals is that they move you into the ranks of those who lost their driver's license or can't afford a car. Clipless pedals mark you as a serious cyclist.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Dual-function pedals as Hagakure suggests are a good choice. Here are some cheaper options for that:

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=6000108&subcategory=60001078&brand=&sku=6223&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Subcat%3A%20ATB%20Clipless%20Pedals
http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=2275&subcategory_ID=5240
http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=13207&subcategory_ID=5240

Perttime is also right that many mtb shoes are very walkable (and look kind of "normal") when used with a recessed spd-type cleat.

I use the Nashbar pedals linked above on my commuter/errand bike. I wear mtb shoes to clip in for my commute, but for errands around town I just wear whatever shoes I'm wearing, including hard-soled dress shoes on occasion.

Wim's "serious cyclist" image argument holds no weight with me, but he's right that it's both safer and more efficient on longer rides to be attached somehow to the pedals.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

JCavilia said:


> Wim's "serious cyclist" image argument holds no weight with me, but he's right that it's both safer and more efficient on longer rides to be attached somehow to the pedals.


Sorry, my comment about that isn't my belief either. I was trying to poke fun at one of those silly prejudices out there and my English failed me miserably. Show up with platforms and sneakers for a fast group ride some time—you can almost feel the loathing.


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## Lifelover (Jul 8, 2004)

wim said:


> S.... Show up with platforms and sneakers for a fast group ride some time—you can almost feel the loathing.



I do and I do!

ATMO clipless pedals are WAY, WAY WAY over rated for the average cyclist and likely cause about 75% of the falls.

High Cadence and/or very hard effort riding is clearly the exception!


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## rcnute (Dec 21, 2004)

I'm using MKS Touring pedals on my commuter. I like them. I didn't realize how annoying it was to constantly clip out for lights, stop signs, idiot drivers.


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## roadfix (Jun 20, 2006)

Clipping in and out should be second nature. You should not give it much thought every time you come to a stop. It should almost be as fluid as removing and planting your foot using platform pedals.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Lifelover said:


> ATMO clipless pedals are WAY, WAY WAY over rated for the average cyclist and likely cause about 75% of the falls.


Can't say I agree with that, unless we're talking very different views of what constitutes "the average cyclist." I think clipless pedals are one of the very few real advances in equipment in the last 40 years. The only falls I've ever seen them cause are very low-speed, low-risk ones.


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## rcnute (Dec 21, 2004)

roadfix said:


> Clipping in and out should be second nature. You should not give it much thought every time you come to a stop. It should almost be as fluid as removing and planting your foot using platform pedals.


Thanks for the tip.  

Some like it black.


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## Hagakure (Jul 12, 2008)

JCavilia said:


> Dual-function pedals as Hagakure suggests are a good choice. Here are some cheaper options for that:
> 
> http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=6000108&subcategory=60001078&brand=&sku=6223&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Subcat%3A%20ATB%20Clipless%20Pedals
> http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=2275&subcategory_ID=5240
> ...


Much nicer option.


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## Scott B (Dec 1, 2004)

I'm 100% into clipless for commuting. They give better control of the bike and are more comfortable. My old Sidi mtb shoes are comfortable enough for walking and I can keep a pair of shoes at my office. It is a good system for Portland where it rains a lot in the winter. What ever shoe you wear it will be wet upon arrival so I'd rather change. 

In the summer I find that sandels are easy to carry and good off the bike.


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## roadfix (Jun 20, 2006)

rcnute said:


> Thanks for the tip.
> 
> Some like it black.



You're welcome. I take my coffee black. Always.


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## PaulRivers (Sep 11, 2006)

Lifelover said:


> ATMO clipless pedals are WAY, WAY WAY over rated for the average cyclist and likely cause about 75% of the falls...


But 98% of *those* falls happen at speeds less than 5mph, where the cyclist slows down then just doesn't quite unclip in time, falling over with a scratch to their handlebar tape and a bruised ego...

Seriously!


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## PaulRivers (Sep 11, 2006)

I still haven't seen a 100% solution to the question of "How do I use clipless pedals on a commuter without carrying around a 2nd set of shoes?"

You can use those pedals with straps with regular shoes, but personally they freak me out because it's messier to get your foot of the pedal in an emergency. I feel way more confident unclipping my bike shoes instantly (you just twist it to the side, which is usually the way my foot wants to go in an emergency anyways, so it's natural) than trying to do it with those pedal straps where you have to pull your foot out backwards.

You can walk around in mountain bike shoes with the recessed cleat pretty easily, and this is the best compromise solution that I've found. It works well for biking to someone's house, watching a movie, etc, but they still have a little bit of "click" on concrete or smooth hard floors, and I wouldn't want to, say, bike to a park then go hiking in them.

Now that I'm used to clipping in and clipping out, it's so 2nd nature that I don't think I even look down at my pedals any more - I usually have 1 clipped in at a stop, and I just put the other down onto the pedal where I know the pedal is going to be.

However, if you get those "one side is the clip-in, the other side is a normal pedal" style pedals, you're forced to look down at the pedal (and flip it half the time) every time you clip in and clip out.

Frankly, the only "perfect" solution to this dilemma is to have 2 bikes - one with regular pedals and one with clipless. The next best thing is to change out your pedals when necessary. It's not difficult after the first time (a lot of times the first time you do it the pedal hasn't been changed for a long time, so it's difficult to get out, but then afterwards it's much easier). But it still takes a minute.

Hmm, I've been curious - has anyone ever seen a "power tool" unscrew the pedal in a really short amount of time?


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## yakky (May 7, 2008)

PaulRivers said:


> Frankly, the only "perfect" solution to this dilemma is to have 2 bikes - one with regular pedals and one with clipless. The next best thing is to change out your pedals when necessary. It's not difficult after the first time (a lot of times the first time you do it the pedal hasn't been changed for a long time, so it's difficult to get out, but then afterwards it's much easier). But it still takes a minute.
> 
> Hmm, I've been curious - has anyone ever seen a "power tool" unscrew the pedal in a really short amount of time?


Why not get the 2 sided "Campus" pedals performance sells?


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## PaulRivers (Sep 11, 2006)

yakky said:


> Why not get the 2 sided "Campus" pedals performance sells?


I'm just going to go ahead and quote myself -



paulrivers said:


> Now that I'm used to clipping in and clipping out, it's so 2nd nature that I don't think I even look down at my pedals any more - I usually have 1 clipped in at a stop, and I just put the other down onto the pedal where I know the pedal is going to be.
> 
> However, if you get those "one side is the clip-in, the other side is a normal pedal" style pedals, you're forced to look down at the pedal (and flip it half the time) every time you clip in and clip out.


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## yakky (May 7, 2008)

PaulRivers said:


> I'm just going to go ahead and quote myself -


You don't have to look down at all. If you are in street shoes, you feel the lump of the clipless side. If you are in bike shoes you can tell when you don't clip in. I've put about 1500 miles on a set this year commuting. They weight a ton, other than that, great pedals.


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## Lifelover (Jul 8, 2004)

JCavilia said:


> Can't say I agree with that, unless we're talking very different views of what constitutes "the average cyclist." I think clipless pedals are one of the very few real advances in equipment in the last 40 years. The only falls I've ever seen them cause are very low-speed, low-risk ones.



I would agree that my "average cyclist" term is a pretty broad stroke. However, by my definition, most folks that frequent cycling forums would not be "average".

I guess my point is that the usefulness of clipless pedals is dependent on the riding style.

If the goal is to go "fast", than clipless pedals offer a significant advantage and may even be safer.

For commuting or riding without the emphasis on speed, than I don't think they add all that much.

It's also true that platforms only help with the low speed, low risk falls. I'll skip those given the choice.


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

I've got the Performance Campus pedals (actually a rebadged Wellgo PD95.) SPD knockoff one side, platform on the other. Sealed bearings and lighter and cheaper than the similar Shimano. I got them from Performance because, every time they have a sale, they're cheaper than I can get the Wellgo from a wholesale supplier.

I use a walkable Specialized MTB Comp shoe for commuting and keep a pair of "tennies" at the shop. I can just use the street shoe if I cruise over to the burger joint for lunch or on those occasions where I putt around the park with my wife.

As to clipping in, no problem. Whether I get the platform side or the SPD side, I can get moving and clip in when I want.

I've been riding a "clipless" pedal since 1987 and I just don't feel as secure on a bike when I'm not "clipped in." (I like the linguistic irony of clipping in to a clipless pedal.)

I agree with yakky.


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## PaulRivers (Sep 11, 2006)

yakky said:


> You don't have to look down at all. If you are in street shoes, you feel the lump of the clipless side. If you are in bike shoes you can tell when you don't clip in. I've put about 1500 miles on a set this year commuting. They weight a ton, other than that, great pedals.


Well, you're certainly welcome to your opinion (or personal experience), just as anything I write is nothing more than my personal opinion.

All I'm saying is that when I had those style of pedals on my bike, I thought they were a giant pain in the ass. Whether you're looking down or you're figuring it out by feel, you're still forced to spend a variable amount of time messing with getting into and out of your pedals, at the precise moment when your attention is needed elsewhere (you're most likely crossing an intersection and need to be watching for cars, people, other bikes...). In my personal opinion, if you're commuting a short distance or through a lot of intersections, it seemed like any time benefits you gained by going clipless were lost through the time you spent screwing around with clipping and unclipping, not to mention an additional uneeded distraction when your attention was needed on the traffic around you.

Whereas with double-sided clipless, it's a consistent quick operation to clip in and out for me and (after much practice) nothing I would consider noticeably more time consuming or taking more effort than riding with regular shoes.

Maybe you have better technique that I did or something. I can't say for sure, but that's my opinion based on over a year of riding around with those "clip on one side, platform on the other" style pedals.


Just trying to share my experience - I just did a search I saw these today - clips on both sides, I wonder if you could ride in regular shoes fairly easily with these?
http://www.rei.com/product/752295
(this is similar to: http://www.eriksbikeshop.com/ride/p...F_TT0yfg&scid=SearchResults&spoffset=2&s_id=0)


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

PaulRivers said:


> All I'm saying is that when I had those style of pedals on my bike, I thought they were a giant pain in the ass. Whether you're looking down or you're figuring it out by feel, you're still forced to spend a variable amount of time messing with getting into and out of your pedals, at the precise moment when your attention is needed elsewhere (you're most likely crossing an intersection and need to be watching for cars, people, other bikes...). In my personal opinion, if you're commuting a short distance or through a lot of intersections, it seemed like any time benefits you gained by going clipless were lost through the time you spent screwing around with clipping and unclipping, not to mention an additional uneeded distraction when your attention was needed on the traffic around you.
> 
> Whereas with double-sided clipless, it's a consistent quick operation to clip in and out for me and (after much practice) nothing I would consider noticeably more time consuming or taking more effort than riding with regular shoes.
> 
> Maybe you have better technique that I did or something. I can't say for sure, but that's my opinion based on over a year of riding around with those "clip on one side, platform on the other" style pedals.


Count me as another with experience similar to that of yakky and Richard. The pedals work fine, and are absolutely no more trouble to clip into than other clipless models. In fact, with MTB shoes and the other side of the pedal being a plain cage, it's less critical to clip in immediately, since you can pedal securely as long as you need on the flat side. As for unclipping, that is a completely instinctive operation after a little practice, creating absolutely no distraction.



> it seemed like any time benefits you gained by going clipless were lost through the time you spent screwing around with clipping and unclipping


For me, the benefits of being attached have little to do with time saving, and much more with being able to pedal safely and securely at high rpm and high effort (especially important on a fixed gear).


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## JohnnyTooBad (Apr 5, 2004)

I've been riding clipless on my commuter for many yeats. I use CB Candies. I've never taken a fall that wasn't caused by rutted up ice on the MUT. Candies have a bit of a platofrm and are incredibly easy to clip in and out of, without looking down. They also have a nice flat cleat that doesn't touch the ground when walking in MTB shoes.

I don't carry another set of shoes but I do keep another pair in my office. When I'm on my way out of the office in the afternoon, and someone I don't know sees me in the elevator, they almost always think I'm on my way to play soccer or something. So I guess my shoes look like soccer shoes.

As for efficiency, yes, clipless and stiff soled shoes are more efficient. Once you've ridden with clipless for a while (maybe a year??) you find that you spin in circles a lot better. When I get on my grocery getter bike, which is my only bike w/o clipless, my feet are constantly coming off the pedals and I have a much harder time going up hill. Basically, I have to soft pedal (which is fine for hauling 50 lbs of groceries in a trailer). Not to mention that the soft soled shoes make my feet hurt on the pedals. Even just riding 2 miles to the grocery store.

Starting from a stop with clipless, especially on a single speed (or fixed) makes a huge difference. Let's face it, a single speed takes a lot of effort to get started from a stop, and being able to pull up, back and push forward makes a huge difference over just being able to push down on the pedals.


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## methodistsheep (Dec 10, 2007)

Most recently I've been using Crank Brothers Mallets; they provide the clipless option, while providing a substantial platform for the off days. I do, of course, have to face the "shame" of riding a downhill pedal on a single speed roadie.


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## bsaunder (Oct 27, 2004)

add another to the category of using the commuter pedals - spd one side and flat on the other side. I've got over a year of commuting on them and I actually much prefer it over double sides clipless pedals precisely due to the issue of getting through intersections etc. With the caged side, it doesn't matter if you're clipped in or not, you can still pedal decently and your foot won't slip off the pedal, if you hit the clip side, all is good and of you go.

I used to commute 20 miles each way and I can definitely attest to preferring it. I can't say that it is faster or more efficient as I haven't actually measured it. I can however say that the few times I have tried it in normal shoes, I thought it was miserable and actually came close to wrecking more than once when I went to go across an intersection as I tried to pull up on the pedal that I always leave clipped in. I can say that my legs were a lot more tired from those commutes as well, partially due to the much more flexible sole which tired out my calves a bit, but also because my thighs and glutes got a lot more tired without the hamstrings being able to kick in and help much.
Now that I only have an ~4mile commute, I doubt that efficiency is really impacted - however there has been more than once that I have had to bunny hop some debris in the bike lane with heavy traffic next to me and I've been very happy to have been clipped in for those times.

For the subject of shoes - I wouldn't stay in my mtn shoes that I use or commuting all day at work, but I do regularly go to the grocery store and various other errands with them, including heading out to dinner. I have no issue walking in them at all, even if I'm wearing my carbon soled race shoes. In the summer time I really like the keen cycling sandals that I got this year as well.

For just putzing around town, I love just regular shoes and my cruiser; however there is no way I'd ride my cruiser for a 20mile each way commute.


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## jaytece (Nov 6, 2008)

I commute 8 miles one way to work. I leave my work shoes there so I do not have to lug them around. Being a fairly new rider I first thought I would hate the clipless pedals, but I willl never ride without them again. Much safer and more efficient.


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## lomax (Nov 14, 2008)

*Power Grips*

Have you looked into power grips? I have a short commute and I swear by them. I wear dress shoes to work, and it takes only seconds to secure my feet to the pedals, and I can also come out of them very easy if need be. It eliminates the need to use specialized shoes, and I've found they are just as efficient. They're easy to install and very durable.

http://www.amazon.com/BPP-Power-Grips/dp/B000ADZ0IO


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## PaulRivers (Sep 11, 2006)

I wrote that I didn't like the one-sided clip-in pedals because I thought they were hard to clip into, and like 4 people wrote back to talk about how they aren't a problem for them, and no one agreed with me. That's fine, but since I don't like sounding like I'm crazy -  here's someone else who just wrote a post about how they don't like the 1-sided clip-in pedals:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=486127

Not saying anyone is wrong, just saying I'm not the only person in the whole world who found the 1-sided pedals a pain to clip into.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

PaulRivers said:


> I wrote that I didn't like the one-sided clip-in pedals because I thought they were hard to clip into, and like 4 people wrote back to talk about how they aren't a problem for them, and no one agreed with me. That's fine, but since I don't like sounding like I'm crazy -  here's someone else who just wrote a post about how they don't like the 1-sided clip-in pedals:
> http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=486127
> 
> Not saying anyone is wrong, just saying I'm not the only person in the whole world who found the 1-sided pedals a pain to clip into.


So you're not the only klutz in the world (just kidding). Maybe there's a difference in perspective here, as as result of different experience. Many of us have always used clipless pedals that are "one-sided" (e.g., Look), so learning to flip the pedal and clip in without looking is second nature. If you've only used 2- or 4-sided pedals you may find the task more daunting. But I think anyone can learn to be comfortable with it with a little effort, and I've found the advantages of the dual-function pedals to be substantial for a commuter/errand bike.

Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks, ya know?


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## roadfix (Jun 20, 2006)

Likes and dislikes about clipless in general boils down to one's level of foot dexterity.


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## addict42 (Nov 2, 2006)

lomax said:


> Have you looked into power grips? I have a short commute and I swear by them. I wear dress shoes to work, and it takes only seconds to secure my feet to the pedals, and I can also come out of them very easy if need be. It eliminates the need to use specialized shoes, and I've found they are just as efficient. They're easy to install and very durable.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/BPP-Power-Grips/dp/B000ADZ0IO



I have thousands of miles on a pair of Power Grips. They are, simply put, great!:thumbsup:


I guess I'm the odd guy out, but I've commuted with street shoes on my Look pedals from time to time. It's neither uncomfortable nor difficult to keep my foot on top of the pedals (in dry weather, anyway:smilewinkgrin without a cleat. I have considered making an insert, like the Winwood Decksters, however.


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