# Warranty issue....need advice



## cmcneill (Dec 23, 2008)

I purchased a six13 team model in October 2008. 3 weeks ago I noticed what appeared to be a crack in the downtube near my bottom bracket. My bike has always been pampered and never been crashed or dropped. It only has 12000 miles on it. I immediately took it into my LBS to see if it was a crack. First the Cannondale rep said it was cosmetic and nothing to worry about. The LBS mechanic noticed that he can actually put his fingernail inside the crack. I had the LBS tell the Cannondale rep that if it is cosmetic and not structural than put it in writing and I will be happy to keep my bike. Now, I am still not getting a straight answer on the crack being cosmetic or structural! The Cannondale rep now says that if I am worried about it then I can trade it for a CAAD9 frame. I absolutely loved the ride of my six13. I am not a racer and usually ride distances of 60-70 miles with a few planned centuries. I do like to try to hang with the fast riders in the weekly group rides.

First question: Is this a fair trade or am I giving up more than I should? I understand the six13 is not in production but if I wanted all aluminum last year than I would have purchased it then. Everything on my six13 was perfect....from the ride to the paint. I have an issue with being 100% happy with something and then not being able to have it because of a manufacturer’s problem and not have a similar option.

Second question: Are all warranty issues similar to this or does my LBS just have a lousy rep?
:mad2:


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

You should ask for six carbon for replacement and keep pressure on LBS & rep as well.


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## -dustin (Jan 11, 2009)

Sounds like every other painted Cannondale frame...paint cracks at a joint. Happens with nearly all Supers, Systems, Six13s, etc, etc....I'm sure Cannondale will let you send the frame in for evaluation


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

True Cannondale did have a problem with clear coat on Six 13 since then they have fixed the problem and I don't see many frames have return to the shop for replacement.
I had a cosmetic problem with my six13 and all I have to pay is $500 upgrade to System six.


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## cmcneill (Dec 23, 2008)

If it is only cosmetic than I just want my bike back. I am frustrated because I can't get Cannondale to commit to saying if it is structural or cosmetic. My LBS has already had the bike for over 3 weeks. It looks a lot worse than cracked paint I have seen. Also the fact that the mechanic can put his finger nail inside it has me concerned.


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

cmcneill,

If the mechanic was able to do that then I would push for a new repalcement frame at the smae time ask for a loaner while your bike is in the shop.


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## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

I can't believe that the rep would give you a CAAD9 for a Six13. The Six13 was, at one time, Cannondale's flagship road bike. By 2008, it had been eclipsed by the System Six and the Super Six.

Looking by product line, it would fall into the Carbon Six range this year. I do believe that this is a Cannondale Rep issue. The LBS has every motivation to keep you happy since they deal with you directly. I work for a car dealer and I hate it when the manufacturer gives me and my client the run-around. 

CHL


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## STARNUT (Jun 19, 2005)

Cody,

It's not your rep that sucks or your LBS. The rep offered you a CAAD9 replacement becuase that is what is currently shipable. Cannodnale will offer you a Six carbon replacement frame. The probable, currently, is that there is nothing shipping or avaliable.

Here's the process and the inherent problem. Each warranty goes through the shop. The rep will book a frame replacement. The dealer will pay for the frame upfront and the rep comes through and writes a credit for the frame. The hitch is that they can only write a credit for certain frame/warranty codes. To compound the problem the Six is not avaliable as an aftermarket frame option.

It's not like your LBS and Cannondale want you to be without a bike. Your rep is actually one of the better reps in the country (for cannondale) and posts on here frequently.

Personaly, I'd rather have a CAAD9 over a Six13 or Six anyway but..... I digress. You should _*seriously*_ consider listening to your LBS over dudes on the internet.

Starnut


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## trunkz22 (Sep 12, 2008)

STARNUT said:


> You should _*seriously*_ consider listening to your LBS over dudes on the internet.
> 
> Starnut



I concur with the above statement.


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## cbuchanan (Mar 6, 2006)

I also agree with what Starnut said and of all the people on the internet to listen to, he's the one. Seriously :thumbsup: CAAD9 is a super sweet frame


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## jscumbie (Jul 15, 2009)

*CAAD9 - Very nice*

For what it's worth, I rode 110 miles this weekend (68 on Saturday in the rain all day, 42 on Sunday) on a 2010 CAAD9-1 and I have absolutely no complaints. The bike rode great and performed very well.


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## STARNUT (Jun 19, 2005)

My statement was more of an "in general" type of deal, but in this specific situation, listen to your LBS guys. Suffice it to say................. I know the shop and know the guys. You're better off there than just about anywhere, they ain't jerkin' your chain.

Starnut


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Here's all I needed to see to formulate an opinion.
The OP stated:
_...if I wanted all aluminum last year than I would have purchased it then. _

I understand that if a frameset isn't available then the OP doesn't have the option to replace his, but IMO the C'dale rep should be working with him to accomodate his wishes to the extent possible. It's an old fashioned way of thinking, but it's good business. 

Beyond that, except for Starnut's last post, the last few are all contradictory. They suggest ignoring the advice of internet dudes, then go on to say how great the CAAD9 frame is. 

To the OP: Take their advice and ignore them. If you don't want a CAAD9, don't settle for one. Contact your LBS and state your wishes (within reason) and ask that they work towards a remedy (with the rep and/ or C'dale) on your behalf. Be polite, but remain firm. Don't settle.


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## batokstate (Nov 14, 2007)

PJ352 seems to have hit the nail on the head. The guy doesn't seem to be trying to work Cannondale over....but doesn't want all aluminum. 3 weeks without a bike, an answer, or even a direction, would have me searching for advice from 'dudes on the internet' as well.

Starnut, if your CAAD9 broke, and you were told that you could only replace it with a Six Carbon, would you turn around and take it with a smile because your LBS told you it was a better frame? What about what YOU want? What about what YOU bought?

Has a CAAD9 been offered as a loaner? I'm guessing the OP has already missed three 'weekly rides'. Maybe offering an extended test ride of a CAAD9 would bring him around to your opinion. Or maybe it would just let him stay in shape and wait while proper customer service runs its course.


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## cmcneill (Dec 23, 2008)

Starnut,

The beautiful thing about internet message boards is that you can have several random dudes who are more than willing to give you their opinion. If I walked into a shop and asked everyone who ever had a Cannondale warranty issue raise their hand probably no one would respond. I obviously trust my LBS because I drive by 2 (3 counting their neighbor) just to get there. They originally put me on a bike that felt right from the first pedal stroke. PJ353 hit the nail on the head. I purchased a six13 even though the CAAD9 was available. I can’t recall the decision criteria.

That is reassuring about this area's rep. I just figured warranty issues would be a more formal process. I never thought much about a warranty on a road bike because I figured it would never apply to me.

I may have misunderstood my LBS but I was under the impression that the CAAD9 was not currently shippable (4 weeks) but the carbon six was but there would be additional cost.

Now back to the important issue....Starnut or other posters why do like the CAAD9 frame over the six or six13? Why do posters like the six over the CAAD9?


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## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

Hi Starnut:

By product line hierachy, I would think the 2010 Carbon Six would be in line with the 2008 Six 13. That was the basis of my opinion that the buyer should obtain a replacement that is equitable in both dollar value and performance. 

Also, I didn't mean to insinuate foul play on the Cannondale rep's reputation/honesty. I meant that corporate policies, by which he/she must abide as its representative, don't always favor the client's interest. I work in a similar position as the Cannondale rep, except in the automotive industry.

Out of curiosity, how does Cannondale chose the warranty replacement bike for models that have been discontinued?

CHL


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## STARNUT (Jun 19, 2005)

PJ, I know for a fact that the rep has and will continue to make the OP happy and get him a new bike. Like I said, it's not like they (the shop and Cannondale) don't want the guy to have a bike. :lol: what if I _was_ the OPs bike shop? Whould it then be contradictiory?

Cody, be careful about dudes on the internet it's a clearing house for buyers remorse and I see guys use this place a lot for justification of a purchase.

CHL, the Six carbon is heavier and less stiff than a CAAD9. Owning a CAAD9 (plus a lot of other things) I can tell you it'll ride better than damn near any carbon bike under $3000. It smacks of a "me too" carbon bike. It's carbon for people that must have carbon for no other reason than it's carbon. My argument has been and will be that a well made aluminium frame will ride better than a cheap carbon bike. 

The funny thing it, the CAAD 9 is actually a lighter frame the the OPs Six 13 and it rides every bite as well. Cannondale will offer him a Six Carbon or a CAAD9.

Here's another hypothetical. Lets say the OP made the argument that he paid $4000 for that bike in 2005 or whatever. Then says he wants the frame of the $4000 bike today........ right wrong? Cause I'm dealing with that right now and it's PIA.

Starnut.


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

Starnut,

Is the rep is the one who makes the final call on replacement frame ? Perhaps he did not want to issue many credit during the qtr that would make his numbers looks bad ?
I'm sure the shop is middle man on this matter but cmcneill deserve the same value in return ?


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## STARNUT (Jun 19, 2005)

The rep pretty much makes the final call on the replacement. The numbers don't work that way......... a warranty is a warranty.

Like I've said....... Cannondale wants the guy to be happy and as soon as they can they'll get him the frame he wants.


Starnut


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## djh01 (Jul 21, 2009)

STARNUT said:


> Here's another hypothetical. Lets say the OP made the argument that he paid $4000 for that bike in 2005 or whatever. Then says he wants the frame of the $4000 bike today........ right wrong? Cause I'm dealing with that right now and it's PIA.


He should be replaced with a frame of comparable features. Technology changes so rapidly, you can't possibly expect your investment to be worth the same as it was four years ago. You can however expect to get a similar product, or even a better product, for much less than you originally paid. It's a warranty policy, not a refund policy. 

The Cannondale warranty (not sure what it said in 2005, but I would bet it is similar) states that Cannondale will "replace any defective frame with the same or most nearly comparable model then available"


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## STARNUT (Jun 19, 2005)

I agree. He's argueing a model to model swap. He bought the top model then and "wants" it now. He reads the warranty policy and seems "comparable" as models not $ and technology.

Starnut


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

CAAD 9's a great frame. It get's listed as a lower-end frame simply because 1.)C specs lower end parts on the bike, 2.)carbon is the "in" thing right now and aluminum bikes don't sell well.

BUT, from a ride standpoint, the CAAD 9 is great. And I'd choose it over the carbon Six any day of the week.


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## cmcneill (Dec 23, 2008)

Time to eat some crow!

I got a chance to meet my Cannondale Rep yesterday at the LBS and discussed the situation. I have full confidence that I will walk away from this very pleased with the company. I was pretty impressed with his commitment to making sure I am happy with Cannondale.


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## electech (Aug 7, 2009)

That sounds like things are going to have a happy ending. I have owned a Cannondale, although a MTB, for 15 years and they have always been great. Although I have an entry level Giant road bike now, my intention is to go back with Cannondale as soon as I can. It is good to hear that Cannondale will stand by their stuff.


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## cbart330 (Mar 2, 2006)

*System Six Frame Crack*

This is an interesting thread. I am in the process of trying to get my System Six replaced because of a crack in the frame where the carbon and aluminum come together. I have had the bike for one full season. My shops first encounter with the rep was not positive ( a brand new rep). Lots of confusion from the rep on models and not really being that familiar with the models etc. Yiiikes. 

He really doesn't seem to know what a reasonable replacement is for the frame. He initially indicated that it would be the Six...I don't think so! Then indicated that the 2010 super six....+ $2000! I'm not sure how he came up with that number. Anyway it is going to his manager for review. I'm not entirely clear what I am entitled to, but would like something of equal performance/value and would be willing to pay a little extra if needed. Hopefully Cannondale comes through in the end....Ill keep you posted.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

cbart330 said:


> This is an interesting thread. I am in the process of trying to get my System Six replaced because of a crack in the frame where the carbon and aluminum come together. I have had the bike for one full season. My shops first encounter with the rep was not positive ( a brand new rep). Lots of confusion from the rep on models and not really being that familiar with the models etc. Yiiikes.
> 
> He really doesn't seem to know what a reasonable replacement is for the frame. He initially indicated that it would be the Six...I don't think so! Then indicated that the 2010 super six....+ $2000! I'm not sure how he came up with that number. Anyway it is going to his manager for review. *I'm not entirely clear what I am entitled to, but would like something of equal performance/value *and would be willing to pay a little extra if needed. Hopefully Cannondale comes through in the end....Ill keep you posted.


Below is an excerpt from C'dales warranty - IMO it pretty much spells out what you're entitled to.

_During the duration of this limited warranty, Cannondale will either repair any defective frame or component, or, at our option, replace any defective frame or component with the same or most nearly comparable model or component then available. _

Policies site:
http://www3.cannondale.com/policies/
Click on *Warranty Policy *for full content


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## cbart330 (Mar 2, 2006)

Thanks PJ for the link. Good info. I guess the real question is what is "same or most nearly comparable"? I am assuming that this is up to the rep to decide. My loss if "comparable" is a Six in the rep's mind. Thanks again for the link.

C


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Another keywords: 'then available'...


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

It's only cost me $500 to upgrade from 04 six13 to system six, $2K seems to be high.


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## cbart330 (Mar 2, 2006)

Dan Gerous said:


> Another keywords: 'then available'...



Very true! I am hoping that there is something more than a CAAD 8 that they have to blow the dust off of! Not that there is anything wrong with a CAAD 8...I'm just sayin....


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

Caad 8 only had a short life span and Cannondale replaced with a great frame Caad 9.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

The CAAD8 is back as the entry level frame for 2010.

cbart: I would think that, even if they are out of SuperSix, Six and CAAD9, they wont give you a CAAD8, they would probably prefer to have you wait a little longer and get you something closer to your original frame...


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## cbart330 (Mar 2, 2006)

Dan Gerous said:


> The CAAD8 is back as the entry level frame for 2010.
> 
> cbart: I would think that, even if they are out of SuperSix, Six and CAAD9, they wont give you a CAAD8, they would probably prefer to have you wait a little longer and get you something closer to your original frame...


My comments were tongue in cheek.... I really didn't think a CAAD 8 would show up..My experience thus far has been fantastic with Cannondale and I don't expect that should change. Keeping my fingers crossed.


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## SweetSix13 (Sep 30, 2009)

you're probably going to get a Six as your replacement.

technology-wise, it's the closest to the System.

(and I love how people spout on about how they paid $XXXX for their bike 3 years ago and want the same cost frame! heard of depreciation? if you wanted to sell your System Six BEFORE the crack was apparent, then you'd get far less than it was worth. trust me - Cannondale will see you right but don't expect a SuperSix Hi-Mod...)


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## cbart330 (Mar 2, 2006)

SweetSix13 said:


> you're probably going to get a Six as your replacement.
> 
> technology-wise, it's the closest to the System.
> 
> (and I love how people spout on about how they paid $XXXX for their bike 3 years ago and want the same cost frame! heard of depreciation? if you wanted to sell your System Six BEFORE the crack was apparent, then you'd get far less than it was worth. trust me - Cannondale will see you right but don't expect a SuperSix Hi-Mod...)



Interesting thoughts.....depreciation... is that how they decide on replacement? Seems different than what they state in their warranty policies.....however I see your point, if the bike was 10 yrs old and the top of the line at the time it is not reasonable to expect the top of the line bike today. 
I have ONE season (not three) on this bike and had absolutely NO intention of selling it! I love this bike and arguably I think it is one of their best bikes to date. I have ridden the Six and their is no comparison...this simply isn't the same bike from a performance (or value ) standpoint.
So...as a customer I had a bike that I loved, had a major manufacture disfunction (within 1 yr of purchase). Now I expect something at least equal not less. I simply don't think the Six is the appropriate replacement for this bike. Is that a Hi MOD...I'm not sure.... but again I don't think the customer should come out the other end with LESS than what he had before the manufacturing defect occured. I'm confident CDale will address the situation appropriately.


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## Rib (Oct 12, 2009)

I had the same problem , so I have traded in my System six today => to a Six 2010 .
According to C'dale the 2010 is not the same bike as before ??? 
The LBS said I will be surprised ????? 

Lot of improvements on weight and stiffness.
Let wait en see , I should have it back on Wednesday ???
I well keep you informed , about his quality’s .
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Six
The Six, which has lost a claimed 300g thanks to an all-carbon fork, and an additional 100g based on a different carbon lay-up, is Cannondale's answer to an entry-level carbon racer.

We found the matte black finish easy on the eyes, and the bike's stiff and stout carbon frameset to be just as good as some of the much more expensive carbon bikes on the market.

Our 8.25kg (18.2lb) test bike came with a mix of Shimano 105, FSA, Prologo, Control Tech and Tektro, for a retail price of US$2,149.
http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/first-look-cannondales-2010-road-highlights-22205


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## cbart330 (Mar 2, 2006)

Rib said:


> I had the same problem , so I have traded in my System six today => to a Six 2010 .
> According to C'dale the 2010 is not the same bike as before ???
> The LBS said I will be surprised ?????
> 
> ...


"Cannondales answer to an entry-level carbon racer"....The system six was NO entry level racer....I hope it all works out for you. Let us know.


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## djh01 (Jul 21, 2009)

cbart330 said:


> "Cannondales answer to an entry-level carbon racer"....The system six was NO entry level racer.


It would be if it was still in the line today. You have to think in terms of time. For argument's sake, let's say that Cannondale made steel bikes when steel bikes were the top of line. You purchased a top of the line steel bike with a lifetime warranty. The frame cracks in the year 2009, what do you expect them to replace it with? Obviously not a System Six.

Technology advances, get over it.


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## cbart330 (Mar 2, 2006)

djh01 said:


> It would be if it was still in the line today. You have to think in terms of time. For argument's sake, let's say that Cannondale made steel bikes when steel bikes were the top of line. You purchased a top of the line steel bike with a lifetime warranty. The frame cracks in the year 2009, what do you expect them to replace it with? Obviously not a System Six.
> 
> Technology advances, get over it.


Your right...I should get over it!......but I'm not! I don't think I should have to just "get over it". If you don't stand up for what you think you deserve then life passes you by and people walk all over you! I believe (and I dont really care what you think) that the Six is simply not a fair replacement for the System six (value and performance). End of story.
I spent a lot of $$$ on a fantastic race bike( not an entrly level bike - and oh by the way if it was on the line today it still wouldn't be classified as an entry level bike) less than a year ago and now I have nothing. Why the hell should *I* just "get over it!"? As I said above I am confident we will come to a mutually beneficial outcome. It just may take some time to get there!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

djh01 said:


> It would be if it was still in the line today. You have to think in terms of time. For argument's sake, let's say that Cannondale made steel bikes when steel bikes were the top of line. You purchased a top of the line steel bike with a lifetime warranty. The frame cracks in the year 2009, what do you expect them to replace it with? Obviously not a System Six.
> 
> Technology advances, get over it.


IMO your logic is sound, until you use the 'technology advances' argument to rationalize a downgrade as a fair resolution to a warranty claim.

If I owned a top of the line steel frame and C'dale wanted to replace it with a CAAD9, I'd tell them to go scratch. C'dale or their rep may see it as 'comparable', but I don't, and that should matter. My logic? If I wanted an alu frame I would have purchased one. 

That given, I think the same should apply to these cases. If someone has a full CF frame, it should be replaced with another. If somone has a materials mix frame or straight alu, same deal. _That's_ fair and that's how a company builds a loyal customer base, IMO.

Lastly, lest we forget, we're talking frame failures here. So I would think it's in C'dales best interest to 'fix' the problem, not further aggravate the situation.


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## djh01 (Jul 21, 2009)

PJ352 said:


> If I owned a top of the line steel frame and C'dale wanted to replace it with a CAAD9, I'd tell them to go scratch. C'dale or their rep may see it as 'comparable', but I don't, and that should matter. My logic? If I wanted an alu frame I would have purchased one.


Yes, but hypothetically there was no aluminum frame when you purchased the bike so many years ago. It is about what is most similar in performance/ride quality.

In my opinion, it's not a downgrade to go from a System Six to a Six. It's a full carbon bike that is lighter and possesses similar ride quality to the System Six. Technology and performance that once was advanced can now be had in the "entry-level". Furthermore, the term "entry-level" is just marketing copy anyways.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

djh01 said:


> Yes, but hypothetically there was no aluminum frame when you purchased the bike so many years ago. *It is about what is most similar in performance/ride quality.*
> 
> In my opinion, it's not a downgrade to go from a System Six to a Six. It's a full carbon bike that is lighter and possesses similar ride quality to the System Six. Technology and performance that once was advanced can now be had in the "entry-level". Furthermore, the term "entry-level" is just marketing copy anyways.


_It is about what is most similar in performance/ride quality_.... precisely my point. IMO (and that should matter to C'dale) an alu frame can't hold a candle to a steel frame in ride quality, so I would want the equivalent.

I don't know enough about the specs of either the System Six or Six to argue that example, but I think the fundamentals are getting lost. Specifically, it's a failure of the product that 'got us here', so it's in C'dales (or name that brand) best interest to ensure that the customer is happy.

Again, IMO owners of CF/ CF and alu mix or steel (if they made one) frames aren't going to be happy with a straight alu frame, as the OP was offered. And realistically speaking, it's no coincidence that C'dale offers one of the cheapest frames and calls it 'comparable', it's just their cheapest way out.


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## djh01 (Jul 21, 2009)

PJ352 said:


> _It is about what is most similar in performance/ride quality_.... precisely my point. IMO (and that should matter to C'dale) an alu frame can't hold a candle to a steel frame in ride quality, so I would want the equivalent.
> 
> I don't know enough about the specs of either the System Six or Six to argue that example, but I think the fundamentals are getting lost. Specifically, it's a failure of the product that 'got us here', so it's in C'dales (or name that brand) best interest to ensure that the customer is happy.
> 
> Again, IMO owners of CF/ CF and alu mix or steel (if they made one) frames aren't going to be happy with a straight alu frame, as the OP was offered. And realistically speaking, it's no coincidence that C'dale offers one of the cheapest frames and calls it 'comparable', it's just their cheapest way out.


But the same frame doesn't exist anymore and cannot be replaced. Therefore there is no direct equivalent.

The Six is also not one of Cannodale's cheapest frames. It is the model just below the high-end frames which are high-modulus carbon. The OP did have a right to request a Six Carbon, but the second guy who is angry that he isn't getting a HI-MOD Super Six in place of a System Six is completely unwarranted.


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

Put yourself in that situation would you accept the six as replacement I don't think so.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

djh01 said:


> *But the same frame doesn't exist anymore and cannot be replaced. Therefore there is no direct equivalent.*
> The Six is also not one of Cannodale's cheapest frames. It is the model just below the high-end frames which are high-modulus carbon. The OP did have a right to request a Six Carbon, but the second guy who is angry that he isn't getting a HI-MOD Super Six in place of a System Six is completely unwarranted.


Here, as I see it, is the crux of the matter. It appears that when there is no direct equivalent available, C'dale opts to _downgrade_ rather than upgrade. Is this a policy that builds a loyal customer base? I don't think so. Are they taking the cheapest way out? In the OP's case, clearly they are. In the others? Maybe not the cheapest, but not upgrades, either.

In the past, C'dale has enjoyed a good rep for customer service/ satisfaction and backing their warranty. It could very well be that in these tough economic times, being bought and sold, reorganizing and scaling back (or stopping) production in the US are all taking a toll, but it then becomes a vicious cycle that (long term) I don't think will serve the company well. JMO.


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

Dude, you are not going to get a free Hi-mod out of the deal. Give it a rest. Be happy they are willing to give you a carbon Six.


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## djh01 (Jul 21, 2009)

PJ352 said:


> Here, as I see it, is the crux of the matter. It appears that when there is no direct equivalent available, C'dale opts to _downgrade_ rather than upgrade. Is this a policy that builds a loyal customer base? I don't think so. Are they taking the cheapest way out? In the OP's case, clearly they are. In the others? Maybe not the cheapest, but not upgrades, either.


It's not a downgrade. It's a full carbon bike as opposed to a half carbon/half aluminum bike. It's an upgrade.

In the OP's case, as Starnut said, they were offering him what was available and would likely also offer a Six. We can't be sure what the rep actually said to the LBS, or what the LBS actually told the OP. They very well could have said, "well we can ship you a CAAD now if you are worried about the (what we believe to be) cosmetic damage, or you can wait and see what is available in the coming weeks". Again echoing Starnut, you can't trust what a bunch of people are saying on the internet.


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## micken (Jun 21, 2007)

I have a Six13 Team, ie. clearcoat, with the dreaded spiderweb 'cosmetic' problem. Discussed this with the manager of my LBS on one Saturday a few months ago, he took pics and said he'd email the C'dale rep. By 9.30am Monday morning I had a missed call and text message to contact LBS. Warranty replacement offer was Six Carbon frame and fork.

I've not taken this up yet since I am leaving it until next summer to see how the 'cosmetic' problem develops since I use the bike over winter in the UK. In the mean time I will be riding both the Six Carbon (2010) and indeed the CAAD9 BB30 to see how they compare with my Six13.

Can't fault either my LBS or C'dale reps. Their service has been professional, prompt and realistic. However, I still need to test ride the frames to make sure that the ride quality that I expect is actually there in the replacement.

I mostly ride in the Yorkshire Dales so plenty of climbing, fast descents and tight corners that I've found the Six13 geometry ideal for. Let's see how the Six Carbon and CAAD9 match up.


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## SweetSix13 (Sep 30, 2009)

PJ352 said:


> Here, as I see it, is the crux of the matter. *It appears that when there is no direct equivalent available, C'dale opts to downgrade rather than upgrade*. Is this a policy that builds a loyal customer base? I don't think so. Are they taking the cheapest way out? In the OP's case, clearly they are. In the others? Maybe not the cheapest, but not upgrades, either.


In what world is going from a mid-range carbon/aluminum mix frame to a "best in the business" aluminum frame a "downgrade"?

People see that the frame had carbon in it and seem to think a full aluminum bike is somehow less than suitable!

I *WISH* my Six13 would crack so I have a chance at getting a 2010 Caad9 frame with no financial outlay on my end. 

Some of you people don't know when you're on to a good thing...


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

Micken,

Are you in York area ?


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## cbart330 (Mar 2, 2006)

SweetSix13 said:


> In what world is going from a mid-range carbon/aluminum mix frame to a "best in the business" aluminum frame a "downgrade"?
> 
> People see that the frame had carbon in it and seem to think a full aluminum bike is somehow less than suitable!
> 
> ...



Ummmmm...you clearly have don't understand the performance level of the System Six. Mid Range it is not! Take a system six for a good hard ride and you will understand what kind of performance you get from this bike. (you may not want to get back on your SIX13 again...I have been there!) Obviously your opinion is based on your lack of knowledge on what the System Six actually delivers from a performance standpoint and where the System six fit into the Cdale hierarchy.


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

I totally agreed with Cbart on system six do a research and see the feed back from other users.


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## micken (Jun 21, 2007)

Zamboni
Leeds, about 25 miles, or so, away from York.


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

Micken,

Nice town used to live in Pudsey for six months.


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## micken (Jun 21, 2007)

Worked in Pudsey in 1983, small world.
Where are you now?


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

I was there in Summer of 80.


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

I was there in Summer of 80, lived in CA since 81.


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## Rib (Oct 12, 2009)

Here she is , my new bike ........ SIX 2010


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## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

Hi Rib:

At least you've got a set of wheels under you. Let us know how it rides. One thing, is the downtube decal purposely swooping inward near the bottom bracket area?

CHL


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

CHL said:


> Hi Rib:
> 
> At least you've got a set of wheels under you. Let us know how it rides. One thing, is the downtube decal purposely swooping inward near the bottom bracket area?
> 
> CHL


It's more apparent on Rib's bike but looks on purpose:


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## lucky13 (Apr 12, 2008)

cmcneill said:


> I purchased a six13 team model in October 2008. 3 weeks ago I noticed what appeared to be a crack in the downtube near my bottom bracket. My bike has always been pampered and never been crashed or dropped. It only has 12000 miles on it. I immediately took it into my LBS to see if it was a crack. First the Cannondale rep said it was cosmetic and nothing to worry about. The LBS mechanic noticed that he can actually put his fingernail inside the crack. I had the LBS tell the Cannondale rep that if it is cosmetic and not structural than put it in writing and I will be happy to keep my bike. Now, I am still not getting a straight answer on the crack being cosmetic or structural! The Cannondale rep now says that if I am worried about it then I can trade it for a CAAD9 frame. I absolutely loved the ride of my six13. I am not a racer and usually ride distances of 60-70 miles with a few planned centuries. I do like to try to hang with the fast riders in the weekly group rides.
> 
> First question: Is this a fair trade or am I giving up more than I should? I understand the six13 is not in production but if I wanted all aluminum last year than I would have purchased it then. Everything on my six13 was perfect....from the ride to the paint. I have an issue with being 100% happy with something and then not being able to have it because of a manufacturer’s problem and not have a similar option.
> 
> ...


Do you have a photo of the crack? 
I was looking at my 2008 Six13 -1 after reading this post and notice a textured line around the tube near the bottom bracket. There is no way I could fit a fingernail, more of a bubbling if anything


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

the bubbling on the naked frames is clear coat defect due to galvanic corrosion. purely cosmetic, but ugly as sin on really bad examples. 

system six acrappy mix frame??... put it this way - pozzato was still on his when the rest of the team was 'upgraded' to the first version of the supersix. sure is one stiff and very stable bike.

that said, the replacement six looks nice, i'd be more amenable to that, then the first version of the six and six carbon... did not look good at all, and seemed too heavy and 'soft' to be a system replacement... this one has potential.. kinda a mini 2010 super...


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## cbart330 (Mar 2, 2006)

An update: As I mentioned above, I was confident that Cannondale would eventually deliver with good customer service. My cracked system six is being replaced by the 2010 super six hi mod at a VERY reasonable upgrade cost. The other option that was presented to me was the 2010 (non hi mod) super six at no cost. I decided to spend a few extra $$ and get what I wanted.

As some of the other's have noted in this posting, it was important to stick to my guns and reasonably argue that the Six was not an "equivalent" replacement for the system six. The discussions with Cannondale were cordial and friendly and we came to a mutually beneficial ending to this situation. Me = happy customer (lifelong brand supporter) and them = gained a lifelong customer (who will also spread the good word on their customer service excellence). A good ending to unfortunate circumstances.


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

Way to go Cbart congrat on your new frame.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

You had to work for it, but I'm glad it worked out for you in the end. Congrats on the new bike and ride safe!! :thumbsup:


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## Rib (Oct 12, 2009)

@ Cbart - Good for you , while I ‘m stuck with the Six , I used the same arguments as you , strange that Cdale doesn’t handle the same criterion all over the world . I hope that Cdale follows this forum , and still sends me a Super SIX


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## Devastator (May 11, 2009)

Congrats Cbart, glad that Cdale is being reasonable.


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## ninjaslim (Apr 30, 2006)

cbart330 
I've just spotted what looks to be fairly large paint bubbles on the seat tube and rear drop outs of my system six, I never wanted to replace this frame. I have yet to take it to the dealer, but hope to end up where you did.

The Six doesn't strike me as vaguely similar to system six that Di Luca won the Giro on while I was riding mine. Yeah time moves on and so do Pro level bikes, I just want a frame that has or could conceivably be ridden at pro level. The head tube on the six seems to be more 'comfort' orientated than any other of the race frames.

Is the 2010 Super six non high mod frame, effectively the 09 Super six frame? 

Don't try and persuade me a CAAD 9 is equivalent, I train on one and while I'd rather another in BB30 over an Six Carbon, it's not in the same league as the system six.


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## Devastator (May 11, 2009)

The 09 Super is a whole different frame than the 10 Super, Hi mod or not. The non himod 2010 has more himod carbon than the 09 himod. Dont take a Six. Personally if the only problem is paint bubble on the alu I wouldnt trade my System in, even for a 10 Super.


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## ninjaslim (Apr 30, 2006)

I've had another look at it and that's my feeling, It's just when does a paint bubble caused by underlying aluminium corrosion become a structural problem? & when should I go to the dealer with it?

As I said I never want to give this frame up it's awesome.


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## cbart330 (Mar 2, 2006)

Well here is the warranty replacement.....:thumbsup:


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## Devastator (May 11, 2009)

Nice dude, thats a great looking bike, DA wheels look good on that scheme.


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## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

Hi Bart:

So nice of you to get ME a new ride. When can I expect it at my door step? 

Safe & happy riding,
CHL


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## bjkfly (Apr 11, 2007)

cbart330,

Got any first ride impressions or comparisons compared to your system six?

I'm in the same boat as you with my system, although I'm debating hanging on to it anyway. American made and much too amazing of a ride!


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## Rib (Oct 12, 2009)

CBart330 , that is a ferry nice bike you have man.


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## micken (Jun 21, 2007)

micken said:


> I have a Six13 Team, ie. clearcoat, with the dreaded spiderweb 'cosmetic' problem. Discussed this with the manager of my LBS on one Saturday a few months ago, he took pics and said he'd email the C'dale rep. By 9.30am Monday morning I had a missed call and text message to contact LBS. Warranty replacement offer was Six Carbon frame and fork.
> 
> I've not taken this up yet since I am leaving it until next summer to see how the 'cosmetic' problem develops since I use the bike over winter in the UK. In the mean time I will be riding both the Six Carbon (2010) and indeed the CAAD9 BB30 to see how they compare with my Six13.
> 
> ...


Sorted the warranty and got a 2010 Six Carbon frameset in black. Picked the bike up yesterday and took it out for a 40 mile local run today. All same components as my Six13 apart from seatpost which is a different diameter. First impressions are that climbing and descending are very similar and the ride is smoother. Nice familiar feel and I am well pleased with the first class service from both Cannondale and my LBS.


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## Devastator (May 11, 2009)

micken said:


> Sorted the warranty and got a 2010 Six Carbon frameset in black. Picked the bike up yesterday and took it out for a 40 mile local run today. All same components as my Six13 apart from seatpost which is a different diameter. First impressions are that climbing and descending are very similar and the ride is smoother. Nice familiar feel and I am well pleased with the first class service from both Cannondale and my LBS.


Lets see some pictures.


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## micken (Jun 21, 2007)

Since you asked Devastator,
100 miles on since Saturday. Quick photo after tonight's ride, still need to sort stem and steerer to correct fit.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## Devastator (May 11, 2009)

micken said:


> Since you asked Devastator,
> 100 miles on since Saturday. Quick photo after tonight's ride, still need to sort stem and steerer to correct fit.
> 
> 
> ...


Sharp looking six


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## micken (Jun 21, 2007)

^Devastator

Saw your new Super Six in the other warranty thread - great looking bike.


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