# dt swiss 240 hubs vs ...



## are (Feb 5, 2005)

How come the dt swiss 240s don't seem to be a preferred hub choice here? It seems the White Industries and Tune hubs are much more popular for most wheelsets, while the shimano/campy hubs are preferred for traditional builds.

Are the 240s' over priced? technically flawed and/or lacking?

I happened to overhear a wheelbuilder at a local LBS saying he wouldn't use White Industries and would always prefer dura-ace or the 240s, which seems quite different from where most folks here come-out.

Thanks


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## CIOCC FAN (Mar 3, 2007)

I would own 240s over White or even Tune for the most part, in fact that's what I do use. Don't get me wrong, the others have their place, but I still prefer DT.

I think you'd find DT hubs outsell WI and Tune overall and also that the builders that post here get lower pricing on WI than DT, which is why they tend to offer them by default.


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## jinws (Mar 4, 2008)

I've been looking into a new wheelset. I didnt' even look at DT because I wanted something low 1300. weight might be an issue?


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

yerp, DTs are nice for sure, but expensive for the weight... when u r talking that kinda $$, weight can be important to some ppl... especially the front hub, which isn't that light compared to the competition... fronts cost pretty much the same as tunes do, and that's comparing 115g to 73g, and to my eye the tunes look very special...

At least for the prices i can get, WI is cheaper compared to DT... now w/ the new h2 design tho, there is a weight penalty for campy users... the ol' h1 used to be very attractive to WWs...

that's road anyways..... over here in the land of Oz, DTs are the default 'nice' hub, and the ratchet system is actually a boon for XC racers since long engagement distances in a rear hub can be pretty annoying when 'negotiating' a steep, rocky slate banked incline... so annoying...


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## jemlinus (Feb 27, 2008)

CIOCC FAN said:


> I think you'd find DT hubs outsell WI and Tune overall and also that the builders that post here get lower pricing on WI than DT, which is why they tend to offer them by default.


DT hubs outsell WI and Tune does not mean they are better. Builders love Tune because of its geometry and lightness not because they cost more.
.


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## Rubber Lizard (May 10, 2007)

White industry freewheels used to have a tendency to explode especially with mountain bikes, giving the Whites a bad rap among many seasoned shop veterans. 
Its really, really hard to beat the Dura-Ace hubs. There are things lighter, but dollar for dollar, the Dura-Ace or the nearly identical Campy Record hubs are unbeatable. The lack of sealed cartridge bearings makes them super easy to service. I'm a big fan of loose ball hubs. 
I would choose a Dura-Ace hub over a DT hub, despite the weight difference. Even though I really love my 240's.


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

yea, DA hubs are quite nice... as a campy guy it kills me to say they are a better option for customs, since u actually have a choice of spoke holes !! but yeah, loose ball systems can be set up to roll pretty smooth, and even the DA rear is not too bad @ 250g... campy is even better at a real tested weight of around 223g, so it is actually excellent in the dollar/quality/weight equation... some down sides tho, 32 and 36 only and def not waranteed for radial... I agree tho, bang for the buck, they are still the best... one option is to combine the campys w/ WI fronts so u can have a low spoke radial safe front wheel, also its a bit lighter to boot... dont worry about combining cartridge bearings w/ loose balls, since they have them in the freewheel anyhow...


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## Rubber Lizard (May 10, 2007)

wankski said:


> yea, DA hubs are quite nice... as a campy guy it kills me to say they are a better option for customs, since u actually have a choice of spoke holes !! but yeah, loose ball systems can be set up to roll pretty smooth, and even the DA rear is not too bad @ 250g... campy is even better at a real tested weight of around 223g, so it is actually excellent in the dollar/quality/weight equation... some down sides tho, 32 and 36 only and def not waranteed for radial... I agree tho, bang for the buck, they are still the best... one option is to combine the campys w/ WI fronts so u can have a low spoke radial safe front wheel, also its a bit lighter to boot... dont worry about combining cartridge bearings w/ loose balls, since they have them in the freewheel anyhow...


Campy record rears weigh in at around 250, not sure where the 223 grams comes into play. The weight between Dura-Ace and Record hubs are nearly identical 130 ish for the front 250ish for the rear, and the design of the two hubs is nearly identical. 
Shimano front hubs can be radially laced without issue. 
The 240's are a superbly designed hubset, cost is the only real issue that dogs the 240's.


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## Ligero (Oct 21, 2005)

The reason I like them is because they work really good for the money. Anyone who has talked to me on the phone has probably heard me describe them as "the best bang for the buck" compared to what else is out there. The old White hubs did have bad reliability problems, the ones that look like a beer can with flanges, but since they came out with the LTA they have been really reliable. 

The 240 hubs are great hubs and I like them and build with them. When given the choice of 2 pairs of hubs that weigh nearly the same and will both last about the same amount of time but one pair cost $80 more then the other, which one would you pick?



Rubber Lizard said:


> Campy record rears weigh in at around 250, not sure where the 223 grams comes into play.


The black Record hubs weigh 225g for the rear and 115g for the front. When they switched to the black hubs they replaced a lot of aluminum parts with plastic and it dropped some weight.


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

thanks mate ^^^ yerp, records when they went black and dropped the 28h since 07 have been lightened.... its the older silver ones that were around 250g

a set i weighed myself came in @ 223g... seems to be pretty on the mark... see WW:

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/listings/components.php?type=hubs

they had theirs at 221g, which is actually 10 grams below campys claimed weight... front is no where near 130g... as u can see WW got theirs @ 111g.. like i said, its very light for the money and quality...

again, campy is a good hub, nice design, light, shame about the hole counts... rear is still useable in lower count spoke configs, front not so much !


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## CIOCC FAN (Mar 3, 2007)

jemlinus said:


> DT hubs outsell WI and Tune does not mean they are better. Builders love Tune because of its geometry and lightness not because they cost more.
> .


The OP asked what was more *popular*, my response was that DT is probably the best seller overall. 

@Ligero, considering the number of posts about having to buy new bearings in the short term for WI hubs, that $80 is pretty much negated, no? 
I'm surprised it's that different, it's certainly not for my LBS (I've bought both through them, at their cost).


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## JimP (Dec 18, 2001)

I have had the DT 240 hubs for over 25,000 miles. The front bearings have not been changed and are still good. The rear bearings were changed last year at about 23,000 miles. If you want lighter, the DT 190s are 105g front and 205g rear. The only issue I have is that I can't replace the bearings myself.


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## PsyDoc (Feb 3, 2004)

*Sure you can...*



JimP said:


> I have had the DT 240 hubs for over 25,000 miles. The front bearings have not been changed and are still good. The rear bearings were changed last year at about 23,000 miles. If you want lighter, the DT 190s are 105g front and 205g rear. The only issue I have is that I can't replace the bearings myself.


Replacing the bearings in a rear DT 240s hub is not that difficult. The only real "tool" that you need is the Ring Nut removal tool. Once that is removed, you can remove the bearings easily by tapping them out with a rubber or nylon mallet. To replace them, you can use a modified version of a homemade headset press. Replaced mine about a month ago after about 23,000 miles of use.


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

CIOCC FAN said:


> @Ligero, considering the number of posts about having to buy new bearings in the short term for WI hubs, that $80 is pretty much negated, no?
> I'm surprised it's that different, it's certainly not for my LBS (I've bought both through them, at their cost).


perhaps that has been negated by the h2 redesign which has allowed for bigger bearings.... i haven't built w/ WI so i'll shut up about them... that said, and i'm sure ligero gets better deals or orders in bigger numbers or whatever, but yer, DTs are more like $120 more for me =, ugh no. Tunes are like 40 bucks more than that so that is my exhorbitant hub of choice...


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## RioFastRacer (Oct 22, 2007)

Well, I'm not a wheel builder nor do I own custom build wheels....but I do love to go fast and can. I own a pair of 2008 Reynolds DV46 clinchers and they are build with DT 240 hubs. Those hubs are fast....roll so awesome. The more I read about these hubs, the more I love my wheels!!


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## JimP (Dec 18, 2001)

PsyDoc - where do you get the ring nut removal tool and how much is it? The last time I looked, the DT tools for 240/190 rebuilds was over $100.


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## FSonicSmith (Jan 2, 2003)

RioFastRacer said:


> Well, I'm not a wheel builder nor do I own custom build wheels....but I do love to go fast and can. I own a pair of 2008 Reynolds DV46 clinchers and they are build with DT 240 hubs. Those hubs are fast....roll so awesome. The more I read about these hubs, the more I love my wheels!!


Pleeze, unless you are a Pro, Cat I or II, don't tell us how fast you are. It's irrelevant at best, and not likely particularly true unless you are comparing yourself to your grandma. It says a lot about you that you need to tell us that you think you are fast. It also says something about your technical knowledge if you think that there is such a thing as "fast hubs" or hubs that "roll [more] awesome" than others. 
Certain wheelsets offer some advantage in certain corresponding conditions. When such is the case, most of the performance advantage is based on aerodynamics and rotating weight. Not the friction or lack therof in the hubs. Assuming a competently designed and serviced hub, it is simply an enabler, for lack of a better way to put it, for the rest of the wheelset-enabling rigidity, spoke count, spoke tension, rim compatability, durability, serviceability. Look up the threads on ceramic bearings for a reference, if you must.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

FSonicSmith said:


> Pleeze, unless you are a Pro, Cat I or II, don't tell us how fast you are. It's irrelevant at best, and not likely particularly true unless you are comparing yourself to your grandma. It says a lot about you that you need to tell us that you think you are fast. It also says something about your technical knowledge if you think that there is such a thing as "fast hubs" or hubs that "roll [more] awesome" than others.


Wow, you really added somethign useful. How do you he really in not pretty fast? You be fast as hell and never race!

Not everyone has the desire to race. I am one of them. MTB yes, road racing no.

Yoy are also seem pretty clueless. Average to above average riders CAN tell if certain hubs roll better or are smoother. It's not that hard. 

Look, it's not night and day,but if you been riding enough you can tell.

So I won't tell you how smooth my DT 190 hubs are...


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

As a regular wheel builder that usually recommends WI hubs let me give you my take (for what it's worth). My only real gripe with DT is the left flange placement. It's closer to the centerline of the hub than White Industries. This makes for a wheel that is less laterally stiff. The total flange width for DT is less than WI, Tune, Campy and Shimano. They are going for more even tension between the two sides, but I (as do many other builders) prefer better bracing angles for lateral stiffness as the rear wheel is at a disadvantage from the dish as it is. The right flange is optimized for Campy to be able to swap freehub bodies without redishing the wheel. This is great if you ride Campy, but if you ride Shimano compat. you can get better results from Shimano brand hubs (the new 7850 is great). WI, Tune both are optimized for each freehub requiring a redish, but most people do not do this and it takes me 5-10 minutes to do the redish anyway.

I also like the fact that WI comes with a titanium freehub body at that price/weight which is more resistant to the cassette galling it. The set of WI is 20g more than DT for Shimano (Campy is 40g more.). 

Bottom line, for Shimano, stock hubs are better if you can get the spoke counts you are looking for. White Industries is simply my preference between the two, but I regularly build up DT hubs if requested. They are nice.

As far as getting a "better" deal, the difference in pricing is small. The difference in the money I make on one vs. the other is small as well. I make a few dollars more on DT at my price offering so it would actually be in my best interest to sell DT or raise my price on WI. WI cost less than DT.

DT just went up in price FYI.

-Eric


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## Amadeus (May 10, 2006)

*Good Post Eric! Right on the mark! *:thumbsup: 

Flange spacing is the only thing that could be seen as slightly negative for DT 240S hubs.

But this is only an issue for the riders >80kg (=176.37 lbs) or very powerful sprinters. At least IMHO that is.

The less wide left flange spacing on DT 240s is not really a problem IMHO. If you do left side (NDS) in a cross over one (or radial) spoke pattern you end up using fairly shorter spokes and as we know shorter spokes = stiffer wheel. I never had issues due to wheel stiffness on wheels that I build on DT240s hubs. 

So I do recommend the DT 240s hubs!

*Furthermore:*
Shimano and Campagnolo hubs are good stuff, but as said before Campagnolo is only available in 32 & 36 spoke count (they should tie somebody up for this decision at Campagnolo).

DT is (almost) my standard choice since they give a lot of options in spoke count and are strong and pretty light hubs. I favour DT over Tune. WI is not available in The Netherlands (at least not from an importer that I can trust upon in terms of regular delivery) so no option for us at this side of Atlantic.

For less expensive builds I often use Campagnolo (also the cheaper ones they are real good for their money) rear hub and a front hub of choice (that fits the bill). 

Campagnolo Record hub weights are nice and just over DT 240s. The rear hub is just a little heavier so I like to use these Campagnolo Record rear hubs too! 

*Developments:*
I think that Alchemy is going to be best hub in near future. But Jeremy has not delivered yet. The front hub is scheduled for end of April and the rear about 6 month later. The Alchemy hub design is very promising! 


*P.S.*
Since this is one of my my first posts here I like to point out that I am not a commercial wheel builder I just do quite a lot wheel building for over 20 years (as a hobby) since my racing days In the 80’s. I only build for club members and several racers that ask me to.


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## RioFastRacer (Oct 22, 2007)

FSonicSmith said:


> Pleeze, unless you are a Pro, Cat I or II, don't tell us how fast you are. It's irrelevant at best, and not likely particularly true unless you are comparing yourself to your grandma. It says a lot about you that you need to tell us that you think you are fast. It also says something about your technical knowledge if you think that there is such a thing as "fast hubs" or hubs that "roll [more] awesome" than others.
> Certain wheelsets offer some advantage in certain corresponding conditions. When such is the case, most of the performance advantage is based on aerodynamics and rotating weight. Not the friction or lack therof in the hubs. Assuming a competently designed and serviced hub, it is simply an enabler, for lack of a better way to put it, for the rest of the wheelset-enabling rigidity, spoke count, spoke tension, rim compatability, durability, serviceability. Look up the threads on ceramic bearings for a reference, if you must.


You are such an @$$ FSonicSmith. What crawled up your @$$ or what? I do not have any expertise in wheels or building wheels at all. People can be serious riders and still be ignorant of all the tech/mechanical stuff regarding a bike. I started riding 4 years ago. I've made huge strides and I love this sport. I'm still learning. Excuse me for offering my meager knowledge. I just thought I mention that I've ridden 240's and I like them. In the end, it's just an opinion just as someone else might offer with more knowledge. All advice is biased. Being a good mechanic or knowing all the in's and outs of a bike doesnt make you a great rider.....and vise versa it is not a pre-requiste to to know all to be a good rider. If you are gonna be such an @$$, at least install a ceramic bearing upgrade on yours....so it rolls right in smoother.

PS I apoligize to the author of this thread for hijacking it and/or providing very technical info to be off any help to him.


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