# Farrar and his (cough) sprint.



## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

I think I'll throw up if the words "Farrar" and "sprinter" are ever mentioned again in the same sentence. He came 5th in today's flat-as-pi$$-on-a-plate 1st stage of the Paris-Nice. His fizzog wasn't even visible in the heaving mob. If he can't win that sprint, which one can he win? At least he stayed upright this time. That's a start.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

4 non 'big name' sprinters in front of him


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Among the current crop of sprinters, he's the tops at coming up with excuses.


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## mik (Jan 15, 2008)

atpjunkie said:


> 4 non 'big name' sprinters in front of him


1	Nacer Bouhanni (Fra) FDJ.fr 3:53:11 
2 John Degenkolb (Ger) Team Giant-Shimano 
3 Gianni Meersman (Bel) Omega Pharma - Quick-Step Cycling Team 
4 Jose Joaquin Rojas Gil (Spa) Movistar Team

Um, these guys aren't big sprinters?? Are you serious? 
Have you folks checked the start list of this race vs how many riders Farrar finished in front of today.....I didn't see any footage of the race but some of the sprinters in this race that finished behind Farrar today are Boom, Boonen, Greg Van Avermaet, Hushovd, Boasson Hagen,Bryan Coquard,and Alexander Kristoff.....
If you're going to be an armchair quarterback at least be factual


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

actually Bouhanni, Degencolb and Rojas are pretty top names in sprints at this moment.
The field of sprinters currently is as good and as deep as I ever remember - in addition to top crop Cav, Kittel, Greipel, Sagan etc. 
So many opportunistic sprinters like Goss, Farrar, Gerrans, and "used-to-be-fast" older guys like Hushovd, Boonen, Petacchi, etc. are left competing for leftovers. Remember Hausler? Ciolek? 

Farrar was never super-fast to begin with - he was decent and could win only if he was in top form and the setup was absolutely perfect and someone else (like Cav) would make a big mistake, and even then he would fail 4 out of 5 times. And he was noticeably absent for the past few years. Still, he is one of the select group of riders who won stages in all 3 grand tours.


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## AdamM (Jul 9, 2008)

No question Farrar has seemed lost for a while now, but though Degenkolb doesn't want to get pigeonholed as a sprinter, he has a great turn of speed and would probably be the top sprinter on about half the Pro Tour teams. 

Back when Farrar was getting wins Garmin had a very good lead out. Sprinting without a lead out and having to surf the pack is a whole different deal.


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

I thought that result was kind of encouraging for him. Even more remarkable is Degenkolb getting beat.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

mik said:


> 1	Nacer Bouhanni (Fra) FDJ.fr 3:53:11
> 2 John Degenkolb (Ger) Team Giant-Shimano
> 3 Gianni Meersman (Bel) Omega Pharma - Quick-Step Cycling Team
> 4 Jose Joaquin Rojas Gil (Spa) Movistar Team
> ...


Boom is a former cross racer turned classics rider = not a classic bunch sprinter
Boonen is a classics guy who can sprint = not a classic bunch sprinter
Thor was second tier at the peak of his career and is well past that
Boasson Hagen 2nd tier, more of a stagiare with a good kick
If Tyler wants to compete with Cavendish, Kittel, Greipel, or even Sagan he's going to have to be able to beat the likes of your list
Seriously what major race has Nacer Bouhanni won other than two stages of Paris Nice?
John Degenkolb has won Paris Tours, Meersman a stage of Paris Nice and the Green Jersey @ the Dauphine and JJR Gil won a stage @ Tour Basque. None of these guys has won a sprint stage in the Giro or the Tour nor a monument or major classic (except Degenkold @ Paris Tours) , so NONE of them are big name sprinters.

I was being quite factual. I don't over inflate the value of riders


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

55x11 said:


> actually Bouhanni, Degencolb and Rojas are pretty top names in sprints at this moment.
> The field of sprinters currently is as good and as deep as I ever remember - in addition to top crop Cav, Kittel, Greipel, Sagan etc.
> So many opportunistic sprinters like Goss, Farrar, Gerrans, and "used-to-be-fast" older guys like Hushovd, Boonen, Petacchi, etc. are left competing for leftovers. Remember Hausler? Ciolek?
> 
> Farrar was never super-fast to begin with - he was decent and could win only if he was in top form and the setup was absolutely perfect and someone else (like Cav) would make a big mistake, and even then he would fail 4 out of 5 times. And he was noticeably absent for the past few years. Still, he is one of the select group of riders who won stages in all 3 grand tours.


as deep as one can remember without the 4 top guys there

if one can't beat the 2nd tier and a bunch of old timers one isn't gonna compete with the top

all I'm saying


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Farrar would be better off trying his hand at the cobbled classics and semi-classics at this stage of his career. He could be a decent support rider in those.


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## zigmeister (Jan 26, 2012)

TS without a clue. 

He rides for a team who has all climbers and some classic specialists at best. He never has a lead-out train and has to fend for himself in every sprint.

All of the teams mentioned in this thread have dedicated leadout trains to work for their sprinters. Omega Pharma, Lotto, Quickstep, Shimano, FDJ even has a strong presence in sprints.....Garmin...ZERO presence. The rest of his team are sitting up at the back of the group getting sucked along saying, good luck Tyler!!


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

robdamanii said:


> Farrar would be better off trying his hand at the cobbled classics and semi-classics at this stage of his career. He could be a decent support rider in those.


maybe even top 10 himself. 
or gasp, podium. 
oh wait, already happened.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

zigmeister said:


> TS without a clue.
> 
> He rides for a team who has all climbers and some classic specialists at best. He never has a lead-out train and has to fend for himself in every sprint.
> 
> All of the teams mentioned in this thread have dedicated leadout trains to work for their sprinters. Omega Pharma, Lotto, Quickstep, Shimano, FDJ even has a strong presence in sprints.....Garmin...ZERO presence. The rest of his team are sitting up at the back of the group getting sucked along saying, good luck Tyler!!


That's a great excuse. 

What's the solution?


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

To be fair, at least Farrar is doing some racing - although _racing_ might not be the correct word for what he does. Cavendish seems to have gone into retirement/hibernation.


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## waterloo (Nov 8, 2005)

Cav DNF'd at Strade Bianche on Saturday supporting the race winner.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

This. When the race winner crashed, Cav lead the group of Omega riders that brought him back to the front. He even mentioned that in the post race interview how thankful he was to have someone like Cav sacrifice his own ride to get him back to the front.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

atpjunkie said:


> ...None of these guys has won a sprint stage in the Giro or the Tour nor a monument or major classic (except Degenkold @ Paris Tours) , so NONE of them are big name sprinters.
> 
> I was being quite factual. I don't over inflate the value of riders


I like being contrarian as much as the next guy, but you are not being fair.

Hey - as long as we are being "factual".

Degenkold (who is that?) may not have won anything, but John *Degenkolb* did win 5 stages in Vuelta and a stage at Giro. He was a lead-out man for Kittel in TdF, otherwise he could have had a chance or two there too.

Boonen won 6 stages in TdF and 2 more in Vuelta. Plus green "sprinters" jersey in 2007. He is not going against Cav or Kittel any more, but is he really not a sprinter AND classics specialist? 

Hushovd won 10 stages in TdF, 12 if you count TTT, 3 stages in Vuelta and one in Giro. Plus two green jerseys in TdF (2005, 2009), and one in Vuelta. He may be getting older, but, like Boonen, he used to be plenty fast.

Bouhanni - give me a break, he is a 23 year old kid who won first stage of Paris-Nice both in 2013 and now in 2014. That's impressive, no? Saying "aside from this two major big sprint wins in Paris-Nice, what has this 23-year old done" is like saying "what has Taylor Phinney done aside from a few prologues, like a ITT in Giro and Eneco, and 2nds in worlds TTT and ITT, and 4th in Olympics TT and road race, and a bunch of US TT championships and U-23 wins, he accomplished exactly NOTHING!"

Bouhanni is a French national champion who is knocking on the door already. If he doesn't crash out early out of a major tour like he did in 2012 TdF he could soon be a major threat. After all, did anyone predict the rapid rise of Kittel prior to last year's TdF?


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Agreed. I'm all for trashing Farrar but let's not take too much away from Bouhanni's abilities.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

IDK, Garmin can't get much right. They stack a GC team and fall flat. Tyler didn't do much when he had a better leadout train. 

In his defense, I think he improved as a sprinter, just in time to lose the lead out train. He'll crash out of any GT he gets invited to. Not much happens with GC when he gets snubbed.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

Farrar's no Cav, Kittel or Greipel or even Sagan - we just have to live with that, he is second tier on his best days. I think Farrar would do better as a lead out man, if he has the temperament for that. If he had more drive, he could probably go for breakaways more often like we've seen Hushovd do - I think he'd be less likely to crash out of GTs that way as well. Similar to what spade2you had to say, I think we'd see more wins for Tyler if Garmin focused on classics and sprinting and gave Farrar a lead out. The last time Garmin really had a GT contender in Wiggans, he moved on - apparently Garmin won't do 'whatever it takes' to win a GT; maybe it's time to change team focus.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

I was being whimsical - I know that Cav hasn't literally retired.............. It is just that it seems like an age ago that Cav was winning stage after stage in the early part of the season, including beating Farrar regularly.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

albert owen said:


> I was being whimsical - I know that Cav hasn't literally retired.............. It is just that it seems like an age ago that Cav was winning stage after stage in the early part of the season, including beating Farrar regularly.


Cav is purposely starting out slower this year: Mark Cavendish warms up for Milan-San Remo at Tirreno-Adriatico - Cycling Weekly“I’m not on top form,” Cavendish said. “Last year, I started full-gas and I was on my knees by the Tour de France. I wanted to start this year a bit easier be fresher.”
​


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

AJL said:


> apparently Garmin won't do 'whatever it takes' to win a GT; maybe it's time to change team focus.


You do realize Garmin has won a GT, right? As well as a classic. 

In regards to Farrar, he certianly seems to have slipped of the top tier of sprints, and yes he definaly was up there a few years ago. He was never as fast a Cav but he did beat him striaght up at least once and you don't just luck into stage wins in all three grand tours. Since that time I think he made a mistake intrying to become more of a classics rider (which didn't work) and Garmin definatly dedicated less focus to leading him out which it seems he really needs.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

AJL said:


> The last time Garmin really had a GT contender in Wiggans, he moved on - apparently Garmin won't do 'whatever it takes' to win a GT; maybe it's time to change team focus.


Ummmm, ever hear of Ryder Hesjedal? 

<------------- He's the guy in my avatar just in case you need a reminder he rides for Garmin.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

32and3cross said:


> You do realize Garmin has won a GT, right? As well as a classic.
> 
> In regards to Farrar, he certianly seems to have slipped of the top tier of sprints, and yes he definaly was up there a few years ago. He was never as fast a Cav but he did beat him striaght up at least once and you don't just luck into stage wins in all three grand tours. Since that time I think he made a mistake intrying to become more of a classics rider (which didn't work) and Garmin definatly dedicated less focus to leading him out which it seems he really needs.





love4himies said:


> Ummmm, ever hear of Ryder Hesjedal?
> 
> <------------- He's the guy in my avatar just in case you need a reminder he rides for Garmin.


Sorry. Yes of course I remember - and it was a great win (Ryder). The TdF seems to require more from the team and the GC hopeful to get even a top 5 finish. I would say, it even takes some 'special' preparations to win. Garmin is actively opposed to these 'special' preparations. At the TdF itseems like there are those still willing to take some risk to win or at least podium, even if those preparations are mainly out of competition or used much more miserly in competition than the past. Sorry for digressing.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

AJL said:


> Farrar's no Cav, Kittel or Greipel or even Sagan - we just have to live with that, he is second tier on his best days. I think Farrar would do better as a lead out man, if he has the temperament for that. If he had more drive, he could probably go for breakaways more often like we've seen Hushovd do - I think he'd be less likely to crash out of GTs that way as well. Similar to what spade2you had to say, I think we'd see more wins for Tyler if Garmin focused on classics and sprinting and gave Farrar a lead out. The last time Garmin really had a GT contender in Wiggans, he moved on - apparently Garmin won't do 'whatever it takes' to win a GT; maybe it's time to change team focus.


sure. if only they one day would win a GT. 
wait
only a classic then. 
oh damn.


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## TehYoyo (Sep 16, 2012)

Local Hero said:


> Agreed. I'm all for trashing Farrar but let's not take too much away from Bouhanni's abilities.


Yes. Bouhanni has really impressed me since mid-last year. He's one fast dude.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

AJL said:


> Sorry. Yes of course I remember - and it was a great win (Ryder). The TdF seems to require more from the team and the GC hopeful to get even a top 5 finish. I would say, it even takes some 'special' preparations to win. Garmin is actively opposed to these 'special' preparations. At the TdF itseems like there are those still willing to take some risk to win or at least podium, even if those preparations are mainly out of competition or used much more miserly in competition than the past. Sorry for digressing.


You know they got top 5 at the tour twice right?


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

55x11 said:


> I like being contrarian as much as the next guy, but you are not being fair.
> 
> Hey - as long as we are being "factual".
> 
> ...


sorry for the typo
Not to be contrarian but all you did is point out these guys are either up and comers or past their prime. Thor and Boonen won green jerseys mostly because they were strong enough to finish (much like Zabel). They didn't dominate tour sprint stages like Cav, Greipel, Cippo, AleJet and now Kittel. 
It's a simple fact, that if Tyler wants any chance @ beating or competing with the big names, he has to beat this group.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

Local Hero said:


> That's a great excuse.
> 
> What's the solution?


never stopped McEwen.
Hell Cav won stages @ the tour for Skye with little to no lead out


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

AJL said:


> Cav is purposely starting out slower this year: Mark Cavendish warms up for Milan-San Remo at Tirreno-Adriatico - Cycling Weekly“I’m not on top form,” Cavendish said. “Last year, I started full-gas and I was on my knees by the Tour de France. I wanted to start this year a bit easier be fresher.”
> ​


makes sense, aging, can't recover as fast or peak as long
fast twitch guys typically have short shelf lives sadly


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

wonder how many neo pros would say "yeah I'll take it". if they were told "all" the would accomplish in their whole was Farrar's results until now.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> sorry for the typo
> Not to be contrarian but all you did is point out these guys are either up and comers or past their prime. Thor and Boonen won green jerseys mostly because they were strong enough to finish (much like Zabel). They didn't dominate tour sprint stages like Cav, Greipel, Cippo, AleJet and now Kittel.
> It's a simple fact, that if Tyler wants any chance @ beating or competing with the big names, he has to beat this group.


boonen won 6 stages in the tour by just being strong enough to finish?


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

den bakker said:


> boonen won 6 stages in the tour by just being strong enough to finish?


no, won the green jersey. finish consistently high and make it to Paris.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

atpjunkie said:


> never stopped McEwen.
> Hell Cav won stages @ the tour for Skye with little to no lead out


How many wins did McEwen have his last couple of years?


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

spade2you said:


> How many wins did McEwen have his last couple of years?


more than Tyler in his whole career.
Is Tyler nearing the end of his career?
Tyler is 29 and has 2 Giros, 3 Vueltas and 2 TdFs total (plus 2 Tirreno Adriatico stages) and hasn't won anything major since he was 26 (except a Giro TTT), @ 35 (2006) McEwen won stages In the Giro, TdF, TdS, Romandie, Tirreno [email protected] 30 McEwen won the green and 2 stages, 2 stages @ the Giro and 2 stages of Paris Nice @ 32 McEwen won green, 2 stages, a Giro stage and 2 TdS stages @ 34 he won Green and 3 stages TdF and 3 Giro stages


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

den bakker said:


> wonder how many neo pros would say "yeah I'll take it". if they were told "all" the would accomplish in their whole was Farrar's results until now.


indeed. so maybe the problem is our expectations
was Tyler over hyped?
He should switch to a classics style of riding maybe


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> indeed. so maybe the problem is our expectations
> was Tyler over hyped?


by who?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

atpjunkie said:


> more than Tyler in his whole career.
> Is Tyler nearing the end of his career?
> Tyler is 29 and has 2 Giros, 3 Vueltas and 2 TdFs total (plus 2 Tirreno Adriatico stages) and hasn't won anything major since he was 26 (except a Giro TTT), @ 35 (2006) McEwen won stages In the Giro, TdF, TdS, Romandie, Tirreno [email protected] 30 McEwen won the green and 2 stages, 2 stages @ the Giro and 2 stages of Paris Nice @ 32 McEwen won green, 2 stages, a Giro stage and 2 TdS stages @ 34 he won Green and 3 stages TdF and 3 Giro stages


From 2008-2011, McEwan's victories were a little sparse and not much were big wins. 

Tyler has done alright, keeping in mind he might be one of the few clean winners from the US. 

US cycling fans want a winner and hate getting their hands dirty. Can't always have it both ways. 

I think the bottom line is that there are a few sprinters who dominate everything. Tyler isn't one of them. There are also a few guys who win all the TTs while other talented guys are fighting for the bottom rung of the podium.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

den bakker said:


> by who?


Come on, many here expected, or at least seriously hoped for, more wins from Farrar.
It didn't happen. And just as with Tommy D - many of us who are from the USA are not happy about it.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

spade2you said:


> IDK, Garmin can't get much right. They stack a GC team and fall flat.


you refer to their 2012 giro win? their 2012 vuelta nr 7 (23 year old) or their 2013 tour de france nr 10 (24 year old rider, nr 2 in white jersey) as "falling flat"?


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

AJL said:


> Come on, many here expected, or at least seriously hoped for, more wins from Farrar.
> It didn't happen. And just as with Tommy D - many of us who are from the USA are not happy about it.


sorry your expectations on others behalf did not carry through. you know what? that's your problem, not the rider.


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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

There comes a time when you have to realistically look at your strengths and adjust your race plan accordingly. Farrar should have done this evaluation about 5 years ago. He should have taken a page out of the Johan Museeuw book and reinvent himself as a classics guy, a guy who gets into small breaks. When Museeuw first got to the big league, he was a bunch sprinter, better than average but nowhere near the top guys like Abdu, a young Cipo, or an old VanPoppel. He adjusted his game, and did pretty well for himself.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

den bakker said:


> sorry your expectations on others behalf did not carry through. you know what? that's your problem, not the rider.


My problem wasn't with the riders per se (well, a bit with TommyD), but as a fan of US Cyclist's, I just hoped they would have won more often.
I imagine every country is looking for 'stars' in the peleton from their homeland. That's all I meant.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

Fignon's Barber said:


> He should have taken a page out of the Johan Museeuw book and reinvent himself as a classics guy, a guy who gets into small breaks. When Museeuw first got to the big league, he was a bunch sprinter, better than average but nowhere near the top guys like Abdu, a young Cipo, or an old VanPoppel. He adjusted his game, and did pretty well for himself.


He certainly adjusted something, but perhaps that was just to "level the playing field". As much as I don't like Farrar as a rider (I have no idea why- never met the guy), he's usually up there at the end in the sprints, and I think he's clean. I'm not sure he has the sustained power or build for the cobbled Classics, but I think there might have been something in there for him if he had focused on it earlier in his career. Unfortunately, "nobody" in the US cares about anything but a few weeks in July, and a win there trumps anything you can do anytime else. A win in Roubaix may set you up for life in Belgium, but you'll still get "that's nice, but did you win anything in that France Tour thing?" in the US.

As for over-hyping Farrar, I blame that on the Phil and Paul show. He could be 20 riders back in the sprint, but he'll still get a mention as being "in the mix" by them, much as any English-speaking rider will. They certainly play to their audience, even if it's mostly unintentional misdirection. It also bumps up the street value of the rider, which in turn increases the chance that they'll have someone to interview that speaks the language of their viewers fluently. It does get old, though.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Alaska Mike said:


> As for over-hyping Farrar, I blame that on the Phil and Paul show. He could be 20 riders back in the sprint, but he'll still get a mention as being "in the mix" by them, much as any English-speaking rider will.


have not heard the two yahoos for a few years now (thank god). Is it as bad as the Hincapie days where they continued to pretend he would be contesting the sprint for anything?


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Fignon's Barber said:


> There comes a time when you have to realistically look at your strengths and adjust your race plan accordingly. ....


He came pretty close to having it involuntarily adjusted by Garmin.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

spade2you said:


> From 2008-2011, McEwan's victories were a little sparse and not much were big wins.
> 
> Tyler has done alright, keeping in mind he might be one of the few clean winners from the US.
> 
> ...


from 2008 - 2011 McEwen was 36-39, @ the end 10 yrs Farrars senior @ present.
Farrar is 29 and should be in his prime. Comparing how he is doing now vs a sprinter @ the end of their career is kind of silly unless one wants to make the conclusion that @ 29 Tyler is nearing the end of his career


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

AJL said:


> Come on, many here expected, or at least seriously hoped for, more wins from Farrar.
> It didn't happen. And just as with Tommy D - many of us who are from the USA are not happy about it.


I never had much hope for Danielson. I'd read too many Tilford blog entries


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Considering the critera used starting this thread can we now start discussing how the words Cavendish and sprinting should not be used in the same sentence in view of the finish at T-A today?


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

32and3cross said:


> Considering the critera used starting this thread can we now start discussing how the words Cavendish and sprinting should not be used in the same sentence in view of the finish at T-A today?


him and Greibel are DONE. they should just focus on moving water bottles the first 100 km and then try and make the time cuts.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

den bakker said:


> sorry your expectations on others behalf did not carry through. you know what? that's your problem, not the rider.


I also hoped that Farrar would win more. I understand that those were my expectations -- It has been frustrating to see him come up short over and over again. But it's really more Farrar's problem, not mine. He is probably much more frustrated than me.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

32and3cross said:


> Considering the critera used starting this thread can we now start discussing how the words Cavendish and sprinting should not be used in the same sentence in view of the finish at T-A today?


Cav just needs to retire.

We could also talk about Gilbert and Thor these days for the same reasons.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

I just don't think the OQS train is as respected/feared as the Columbia train was, and I doubt it ever will be. Him getting boxed in more often these days is likely a symptom of that. To be fair, Cavendish is getting a later start this year to peak around the Tour, so we likely haven't seen his best (this season) yet. Cav's far from done, and I expect he'll start picking up the wins soon.

I've never liked him, but then again I haven't liked a sprinter since Cipollini- mainly for his flair.


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## TehYoyo (Sep 16, 2012)

albert owen said:


> To be fair, at least Farrar is doing some racing - although _racing_ might not be the correct word for what he does. Cavendish seems to have gone into retirement/hibernation.


Cav is clearly targetting the first TdF stage after it was gifted to him by the race organizers (in Britain, second TdF in a row to start w/out a prologue). It's March right now... I'm sure you'll see him do a lot of racing (and winning vs. Farrar) come the summer.


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## TehYoyo (Sep 16, 2012)

albert owen said:


> I was being whimsical - I know that Cav hasn't literally retired.............. It is just that it seems like an age ago that Cav was winning stage after stage in the early part of the season, including beating Farrar regularly.


I can't think of the last time Farrar beat Cav.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

Cav finished same time, boxed in a crossed 17th. I wouldn't count him out just yet


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

TehYoyo said:


> I can't think of the last time Farrar beat Cav.


July 4th, 2011.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

Though I don't know if that counts as "beating Cavendish" since I don't remember but I think Cavendish was out of position that day.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

atpjunkie said:


> Cav finished same time, boxed in a crossed 17th. I wouldn't count him out just yet


At the moment are we seeing a Shadow of His Former-Self racing? Will the real Cav ever "be back"? This apparent decline is due, in my opinion, to a combination of factors - career mis-management; being a small man racing a new breed of giants; and still over weight.
I hope I am wrong in my pessimism, as he has been THE star of the last 5 years and possibly the greatest pure sprinter ever.
It is Farrar's bad luck that his peak coincided with Cav's.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

albert owen said:


> At the moment are we seeing a Shadow of His Former-Self racing? Will the real Cav ever "be back"? This apparent decline is due, in my opinion, to a combination of factors - career mis-management; being a small man racing a new breed of giants; and still over weight.
> I hope I am wrong in my pessimism, as he has been THE star of the last 5 years and possibly the greatest pure sprinter ever.
> It is Farrar's bad luck that his peak coincided with Cav's.


I know. only 2 wins so far this year for Cavendish. What a looser.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

albert owen said:


> At the moment are we seeing a Shadow of His Former-Self racing? Will the real Cav ever "be back"? This apparent decline is due, in my opinion, to a combination of factors - career mis-management; being a small man racing a new breed of giants; and still over weight.
> I hope I am wrong in my pessimism, as he has been THE star of the last 5 years and possibly the greatest pure sprinter ever.
> It is Farrar's bad luck that his peak coincided with Cav's.


greatest ever? Cipollini in my opinion.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

foto said:


> greatest ever? Cipollini in my opinion.


and the prettiest lead out train ever


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

atpjunkie said:


> indeed. so maybe the problem is our expectations
> was Tyler over hyped?
> He should switch to a classics style of riding maybe


This thread is really interesting. What were people really expecting from Farrar this year? 

-He's lucky to even be riding for Garmin this season. His contract was in question until very late in the process.

-Hasn't been riding well for a long time now.

-And it's not like anyone anywhere has been hyping him.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

albert owen said:


> At the moment are we seeing a Shadow of His Former-Self racing? Will the real Cav ever "be back"? This apparent decline is due, in my opinion, to a combination of factors - career mis-management; being a small man racing a new breed of giants; and still over weight.
> I hope I am wrong in my pessimism, as he has been THE star of the last 5 years and possibly the greatest pure sprinter ever.
> It is Farrar's bad luck that his peak coincided with Cav's.


ups. 
3 wins. my bad, sorry.


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## dot (Mar 4, 2004)

Hey, he has just won from the bunch and got second overall at Dwars door Vlaanderen!


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

dot said:


> Hey, he has just won from the bunch and got second overall at Dwars door Vlaanderen!


That's not 'won' if it was for 2nd...


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Dan Gerous said:


> That's not 'won' if it was for 2nd...


2nd is just the first loser.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

looigi said:


> 2nd is just the first loser.


Steegmans, in an interview, said "We thought we'd better let him 'win' the bunch sprint so we wouldn't have to listen to his whining, about how he got blocked in the sprint, all the way from the Garmin bus. We were all just thankful he stayed upright. We'd already won the race so WTF?"


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Mike T. said:


> Steegmans, in an interview, said "We thought we'd better let him 'win' the bunch sprint so we wouldn't have to listen to his whining, about how he got blocked in the sprint, all the way from the Garmin bus. We were all just thankful he stayed upright. We'd already won the race so WTF?"


Ha Ha!


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

I'm happy for Farrar. 

I missed seeing him, I was watching the Volta while I was trying to work. Should have just said, screw work, I'm watching both.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Surprised at the armchair quarterbacking here and who's doing it. Farrar an underachiever because he hasn't equaled the greatest winners in the sport? Cav washed up? 

Ridiculous..


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

He may not have equaled the greatest winners, but he is solidly among the greatest whiners.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

Mike T. said:


> Steegmans, in an interview, said "We thought we'd better let him 'win' the bunch sprint so we wouldn't have to listen to his whining, about how he got blocked in the sprint, all the way from the Garmin bus. We were all just thankful he stayed upright. We'd already won the race so WTF?"


Wow. That must have stung!!


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## dot (Mar 4, 2004)

Ok, was it Steegmans again today? 

Kittel was unbeatable by some bike lengths. Nonetheless Farrar picked up the best leftovers again


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## johnny dollar (Jul 21, 2010)

Maybe Farrar doesn't respect the top step of the podium?


dot said:


> Ok, was it Steegmans again today?
> 
> Kittel was unbeatable by some bike lengths. Nonetheless Farrar picked up the best leftovers again


Just ribbing you, no hard feelings.


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## TehYoyo (Sep 16, 2012)

If it was Steegmans, he should never ever get a leadout train again.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

there are a few more than 80 riders in the history of the grand tours that have won at least one stage in each. Farrar is one of them. Guessing a lot of pros wouldn't mind being on that list...for a lot of Euro pros their dream is to win one stage of a grand tour - Farrar has won six. Not so bad.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

Farrar went down today at the Giro. Does he seem to crash more than others or is he just an easy target to make fun of? (no disrespect to him, btw) 

Slow mo at 2:40ish


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

burgrat said:


> Farrar went down today at the Giro. Does he seem to crash more than others or is he just an easy target to make fun of? (no disrespect to him, btw)
> 
> Slow mo at 2:40ish


I've said before and I'll say it again, I just don't think he has the moxy to mix it up and be a great bunch sprinter. He is strong and fast as all get out, but I think he would do himself and his team a huge favor by transitioning to focusing on the northern cobbled classics. It would take work, but Degenkolb did it in like two years and finsihed 2nd in Roubaix this year. If he focused on the classics and really worked at it, I think he could be much better there than he is in the bunch sprints and his speed would allow him to ride away from people in those attacks in the cobbled sectors, etc. Right now, I just feel bad for the dude.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

burgrat said:


> Farrar went down today at the Giro. Does he seem to crash more than others?


He needs training wheels or should take up recumbent trike racing.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

This is tempered with a healthy dose of respect. The man certainly rides faster than I (or anyone I know) ever will...

That said, as others have mentioned, Farrar seems to lack that killer-instinct when it comes to sprints. People like Sagan and Cavendish find ways to win. Sometimes it almost seems like they will it to happen. Farrar seems to need the stars to align just-so and conditions to be perfect. That doesn't happen very often.

Just a layman's $.02, though.


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