# Stage9: Morzine-Avoriaz to Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne - 204 km



## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

Did anything exciting happen in Stage 8?
So, with one specific rider out of GC contention, there is a major shift in tactics. Cadel is wearing the golden fleece, but Andy Schleck is just 20 seconds down. Contador, who had trouble following Andy after being repeatedly attacked, is another 41 seconds back. The big surprise is Menchov is only 9 seconds off of that. Where did he come from? Last I saw him he was suffering otb last year. This was after a dramatic Giro victory, but still. 

Stage 9 comes after a day of rest, but nearly all riders go out and ride to stay loose. Some even use the day to preview spots of the stage. They go Cat4, Cat1, Cat2, Cat1, a long recovery descent, then the HC Col de la Madeleine. This will break things up, and the true GC contenders will be vetted. Expect to see Basso, Levi, Sastre, Schleck, Evans, Contador, and Menchov goin at it. A mountain goat might try to get away and score a victory, but it is not a mountain top finish. In fact, it looks like the stage the Schlecks teamed up with Contador to doom both Armstrong and Kloden. With Frank gone, and Andy actually aspiring to win, not place, I don't expect that to happen.

I think a lot will come down to who can go downhill the fastest. But I don't really knwo who has the best chops. Used to be il Falco, but he isn't racing.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Basso. The climb is too steep for Cadel to hang if there are any attacks (Basso, Conti, Schleck), so he might even pass the maillot jaune on to Andy.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

Lance will be the winner by 13 minutes.


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## Kaleo (Jun 15, 2008)

rydbyk said:


> Lance will be the winner by 13 minutes.



hehehe... would be fun to see him try something, but it won't be on this stage. Basso could pull something down the big run in... Cadel would catch Andy going down hill


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## otiebob (Jun 25, 2002)

I highly doubt Basso wins it. He is a lousy descender (on the other hand, his teammate Nibali is an amazing descender but is not at the TdF) thus even if he did gain time on the Madeleine, he will be caught on the backside. 

My guess is that none of the top GC guys win the stage (they'll let someone way down on the GC get away) but its quite possible that one of the remaining top GC guys will falter and lose enough time to be out of contention. Wiggins perhaps loses any chance of making the podium in the tour tomorrow....


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## cyclejim (Mar 31, 2004)

rydbyk said:


> Lance will be the winner by 13 minutes.


LOL. Shades of Landis taking back 8 mins the day after his epic collapse.


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## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

otiebob said:


> I highly doubt Basso wins it. He is a lousy descender (on the other hand, his teammate Nibali is an amazing descender but is not at the TdF) thus even if he did gain time on the Madeleine, he will be caught on the backside.
> 
> My guess is that none of the top GC guys win the stage (they'll let someone way down on the GC get away) but its quite possible that one of the remaining top GC guys will falter and lose enough time to be out of contention. Wiggins perhaps loses any chance of making the podium in the tour tomorrow....


Sastre (along with the elder Schleck) is one of the worst descenders I've seen lately. I predict he looses time tomorrow.


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## Geoffersonspin (Feb 12, 2010)

My prediction is there will be someone from Euskatel and/or Footon in the break and they will not make it stick.


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## PhatTalc (Jul 21, 2004)

*Sammy Sanchez*

How about Sammy Sanchez makes it to the top with the other GC men, but after that long descent has enough time to hold of the chasers on the 10km flat to the line? Probably won't happen, but it would exciting!


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## dougydee (Feb 15, 2005)

Matty Lloyd to chase some polka dot points, he won't win the stage but hopefully gets some good points.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

No idea. Just going to enjoy the show. I think they (the players) will let the "also rans" take off for their own glory given that there's a huge descent and a mild grade into the finish. If this stage were further on down the line, I'd say expect fireworks.

The only prediction I can make with some degree of certainty is coffee, Le Tour, and a beautiful morning.


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## Frith (Oct 3, 2002)

If we're talking GC contenders who are also capable on descents then surely Evans has to be the favourite here. Of course to come down one first needs to go up. Schleck and Contador will be looking to unhitch him before the top.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

PhatTalc said:


> How about Sammy Sanchez makes it to the top with the other GC men, but after that long descent has enough time to hold of the chasers on the 10km flat to the line? Probably won't happen, but it would exciting!


Sammy Sanchez is the correct answer. Great pick.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

i couldnt pick sammy again. i thought about linus, but decided not to go that route either. not sure either one could hold off the group on the downside. i saw the GC group sticking together up front, thus the basso pick. i dont see cadel hanging with the group, and i wasnt sure who is the better descender of the group. so i went basso. doubt he can do it, but i wanna cheer him on.

some have pointed out this could be like the landis stage for armstrong. i doubt that for a few reasons:
1) landis didnt kiss the concrete the day before
2) pretty early in the race for an effort like that
3) phonak didnt have another GC contender
4) armstrong should not be drinking "whiskey" now



PhatTalc said:


> How about Sammy Sanchez makes it to the top with the other GC men, but after that long descent has enough time to hold of the chasers on the 10km flat to the line? Probably won't happen, but it would exciting!


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Frith said:


> *If we're talking GC contenders who are also capable on descents then surely Evans has to be the favourite here*. Of course to come down one first needs to go up. Schleck and Contador will be looking to unhitch him before the top.



Evans is my secret guilty pleasure. 

The little pia is due a good turn.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

I'll go for Luis Leon Sanchez. 

I think the win will come from a breakaway. He's just far enough behind for them to let him go. It would be great if Chris Horner were in that breakaway too.


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## Timbuctoo (Apr 23, 2009)

Samuel Sanchez on his Orbea!!


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

Route is suited for Sammy Sanchez with his solid climbing ability and more importantly, incredible descending skills. The other top GC riders will play it safe downhill and finish together. The last climb will be brutal, however, so guys like Wiggins, Hesjedal will all get dropped and may or may not catch up.


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

Basso can't go downhill. I really don't know how well Andy, Cadel and Conti descend. Andy needs to get all the time he can while they are in the hills. I don't see him just playing it safe. I think he'll go for it.


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

I rode this stage once from Cluses in about 10 hours. Think they can touch that?


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

JohnHemlock said:


> I rode this stage once from Cluses in about 10 hours. Think they can touch that?


The pro riders will ride it in about 5.5 hours. But once you add in the commercials, the intro, the recap, the product placement and the podium that's at least 10 hours in Versus time.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

JohnHemlock said:


> I rode this stage once from Cluses in about 10 hours. Think they can touch that?


Cav might give you a run for your money.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

dougydee said:


> Matty Lloyd to chase some polka dot points, he won't win the stage but hopefully gets some good points.


Well he needs to as he is 40 points adrift at the moment. Bearing in mind he came in behind LA on Sunday I doubt he has the legs to do it, let alone the motivation.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

dayyyyyuuuuummmm



il sogno said:


> Cav might give you a run for your money.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

I pick, Alberto Contador.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

fornaca68 said:


> Sammy Sanchez is the correct answer. Great pick.


Actually, the Double Sanchez may be an even better answer: Sammy and Luis Leon. Shades of Paris-Nice 2009, anyone?

Sammy to attack on the downhill and Luis Leon to tow a two-man breakaway all the way to the finish.


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## Uncle Jam's Army (Aug 1, 2006)

I guess Lance is a Fred after all. He was wearing his sunglass temples inside his helmet straps during a pre-race interview with Frankie A a few minutes ago.


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## Uncle Jam's Army (Aug 1, 2006)

il sogno said:


> I'll go for Luis Leon Sanchez.
> 
> I think the win will come from a breakaway. He's just far enough behind for them to let him go. It would be great if Chris Horner were in that breakaway too.


This prediction is looking prophetic. More than a 6 minute lead going up the Madeleine.


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

The break has over 6 minutes on the peloton as they approach the last climb. Luis León Sánchez is the virtual yellow on the road. Are they going to attack and catch the break?


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Well, the scenery is nice today anyway. I predict it will continue to be so all the way to the finish. 


In other news, looks like Moabbiker and Phattalc made good predictions. Oops edit that, wrong Sanchez.

Sogno got it right.


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## Brad the Bold (Jun 8, 2010)

How did Thor crash?

Does he look okay? The tracker had him OTB early.


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## wiz525 (Dec 31, 2007)

Why is Vino attacking???? Stage win? A joint scheme coming up with Contador??


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## wiz525 (Dec 31, 2007)

Super bummer. Jens off the back of the lead group.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

wiz525 said:


> Why is Vino attacking???? Stage win? A joint scheme coming up with Contador??


It gives Contador a free ride. It puts pressure on other teams in the main field to do work.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Poor Cadel. Dang I hate to see that.


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## gegarrenton (Jul 10, 2009)

Watching Contador and Andy duel is absolutely awesome!


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

gegarrenton said:


> Watching Contador and Andy duel is absolutely awesome!


God love Andy Schleck for attacking, but do we really think he and Contador can hold off the others for the 10 k run-in after the descent?


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

jptaylorsg said:


> God love Andy Schleck for attacking, but do we really think he and Contador can hold off the others for the 10 k run-in after the descent?


They have to catch Luis León Sánchez


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## wiz525 (Dec 31, 2007)

Where on earth is Leipheimer???


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

Where is LevI ???


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

"bottle" is fetching bottles ... oops, someone tell him he's the gc rider now!


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## wiz525 (Dec 31, 2007)

Jens is ridiculous!!!


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

Levi is just a few seconds behind Conti and Andy.


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## rhauft (Aug 8, 2006)

...30 sec. behind Conti & Andy


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## Trevor! (Feb 28, 2004)

wiz525 said:


> Jens is ridiculous!!!


Such a machine. That look on his face!


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

philippec said:


> "bottle" is fetching bottles ... oops, someone tell him he's the gc rider now!



Stay tuned, I think this not be the case.


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## soup67 (Feb 26, 2004)

Not watching, but it sounds like a great ride by Jens. Getting dropped/waiting for Andy and then working to the top (almost). With his help with the Andy/Conta/Jens group might stay away from the main field, especially if the hook up with the leaders.


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## gegarrenton (Jul 10, 2009)

jptaylorsg said:


> God love Andy Schleck for attacking, but do we really think he and Contador can hold off the others for the 10 k run-in after the descent?


Honestly? I don't really care! Just love watching the back and forth!


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

Jens is about to fall off his bike


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## LeDomestique (Jan 17, 2007)

Man, the Contador - Andy "fight" is epic !
Hats off to Jens as well


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Wheee that was fun! And we're not even done yet. 

And Lance did not fall off his bike. Yay!


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## ping771 (Apr 10, 2006)

Cadel is done.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

Does Andy ever use the drops on his bike? Does he even realize they exist? I've never seen someone spend so much time descending on the hoods.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

What an annoying descent.


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

Sammy Sanchez has been very impressive the last 2 stages (and I hear he put in a very impressive rest day too)

He'll probably lose a day and a half on the TT, and isn't a serious podium threat, but he's riding great right now.


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

Man, I wish I was watching this live. It sounds like Contador and Schleck are leaving no doubt as to who the real contenders are this year.

I love Andy's style.


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## Brad the Bold (Jun 8, 2010)

Casar Awesome finish!

They caught them but too late.


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## soup67 (Feb 26, 2004)

THAT was an awesome bike race!


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

OUUUIIIIII! Go Sandy!






oops... one day too early!!


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## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

What a stage! Astana and Saxo Bank were both great. Voigt and Vinokourov helping Schleck and Contador destroy the contenders. The top two are so clearly stronger than everyone else.

Good job by the breakaway to stay away until the finish and good job by Casar to take it.


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## kokothemonkey (Jul 7, 2004)

What a beautiful stage, I was glued to the set. There is no question who the top players are.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

What a great surprise. I thought it would be a fairly ho-hum stage. 

How about that wheelsucking Moreau? With age comes wisdom.


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## LeDomestique (Jan 17, 2007)

ping771 said:


> Cadel is done.


Did you ever actually think that Cadel could beat Andy and Alberto? No chance. Team behind him or no team behind him, he's not up to those two.


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## Sylint (Jul 27, 2009)

bleh, had to watch the updates on the tdf official site, at work so no streaming. Seemed awesome though. Hopefully my TV will be hooked up soon enough this afternoon in my new apartment to catch the replay on VS. I haven't been able to watch it yet, no TV, no internet at home.


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## LeDomestique (Jan 17, 2007)

ping771 said:


> Cadel is done.


Oh for Christ's sake, he's crying on screen now....how low can you go?


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

If I didn't wheelsuck at my age, I wouldn't get anywhere in our races -- it's funny that if you yell enough, some young rider will always go to the front and pull.... with age comes reason indeed! 

Getting pumped about next week !!


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> How about that wheelsucking Moreau? With age comes wisdom.


It would have been ridiculous for him to help chase down his teammate.


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## soup67 (Feb 26, 2004)

"had to watch the updates on the tdf official site"

As did I -- work is work. Still exciting. Looking forward to the replay tonight.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

pretender said:


> It would have been ridiculous for him to help chase down his teammate.



Uh, yes darlin' we know this. But hey thanks for the pointer. :thumbsup:


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

Cadel is despondent. He looks like a broken man.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

philippec said:
 

> If I didn't wheelsuck at my age, I wouldn't get anywhere in our races -- it's funny that if you yell enough, some young rider will always go to the front and pull.... with age comes reason indeed!
> 
> Getting pumped about next week !!


Just hope you can hang on to Mark's wheel!


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

He's always yelling at me to go to the front and, sadly, there I go!

We're going to miss you -- Andrew and I just spent a spectacular week-end in the Vercors getting our climbing mojo on -- I'll post pics later -- I'm feeling pretty good for the Etape next week!


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

and Andy looks very happy in yellow.


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## LesDiablesRouges (Jul 17, 2009)

I'm not sure why anyone is surprised by Cadel's failings as this has been his MO in the tour when there have been actual top flight contenders. (I discount 2007 and 2008 because frankly the two winners would not stack up to the winners of just about any other year) He always seems to have one stage where he cracks. 

It's just part of racing unfortunately. There's a reason why a lot of great riders never win the Tour and why there are so many repeat champions. It's so freakin hard and only a few guys in the world have a shot.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

philippec said:


> He's always yelling at me to go to the front and, sadly, there I go!
> 
> We're going to miss you -- Andrew and I just spent a spectacular week-end in the Vercors getting our climbing mojo on -- I'll post pics later -- I'm feeling pretty good for the Etape next week!



Sigh.  Well at least next year you won't be worrying about oeh dropping dead. 

I will live vicariously through you guys this year. Oh the agony!  

Pics indeed Philippe. Many pics.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

jd3 said:


> Cadel is despondent. He looks like a broken man.



He has every reason to feel broken. This absolutely sucks for him. Total bonk on that climb and you could see the palor in his face.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Well if there was any doubt as to who the contenders were and who the pretenders were this year, the last 2 days dispelled that.

Len


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

From the live interview with Andy Schleck sur FR2

"Contador didn't want to make a move, I attacked as much as I could, If I attacked one more time probably it would have been me who cracked, so Contador told me, let's just roll together from here and we'll define this later one between us"


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## Brad the Bold (Jun 8, 2010)

jd3 said:


> He looks like a broken man.


He *IS* a broken man.

The crashes yesterday broke Lance

Schleck and Contador broke Evans.

(edit: it seems Evans was hiding an elbow fracture so a fall broke him, like Lance)

Menchov and Leipheimer keep slipping.

Contador > Schleck in TT so advantage Contador if he continues to stay close to Andy on the climbs. And it looks like he can.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Cadel with an elbow fracture, due to the crash at Km 6 on Sunday. he couldn't keep the performance due to the pain.

to Cadel, respect, je tire mon chapeau !


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Salsa_Lover said:


> Cadel with an elbow fracture, due to the crash at Km 6 on Sunday. he couldn't keep the performance due to the pain.
> 
> to Cadel, respect, je tire mon chapeau !


Also could not stand which he almost ALWAYS does during steep sections - should have been a telling clue he was in trouble but I missed it during the coverage. Good on him for chasing his @ss off an not giving up on the climb.


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

Salsa_Lover said:


> Cadel with an elbow fracture, due to the crash at Km 6 on Sunday. he couldn't keep the performance due to the pain.
> 
> to Cadel, respect, je tire mon chapeau !


Moi aussi! 
(Thought that taping on his arm looked like it was for something more than a little road rash...)

As OEH said, you could see he was lost in the hurt locker trying to minimize the damage on the last climb.

I could not believe how Voight turned himself inside out on the top for Schleck--it really did look like he was going to fall over when he finally switched off-- & then managed to hook in with the Armstrong group for the finish.

I was going to watch with one eye & continue working but I ended up glued to the set for that climb.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

32and3cross said:


> Also could not stand which he almost ALWAYS does during steep sections - should have been a telling clue he was in trouble but I missed it during the coverage. Good on him for chasing his @ss off an not giving up on the climb.


They didn't disclosed the fracture to try to play their chances and keep Cadel on the leaders group, but it didn't worked out.

I saw the announcement live on FR2 just minutes ago.


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

Much more exciting stage than I was expecting with the climb ending so far from the finish. Nice 50km TT by Basso today too, with LA taking a nap sucking wheels the whole way. 
Granted it's the right thing for LA to do in that situation but investing anything in Leipheimer stock is dead money at best to me.


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## tinkerbeast (Jul 24, 2009)

sounds a bit like his reason for dropping in the giro, i.e. injury not revealed till after the catastrophe for tactics. excuse me if im a bit cynical. how does one ride with a fractured elbow anyway? any sort of pressure on it will incapacitate you


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

tinkerbeast said:


> sounds a bit like his reason for dropping in the giro, i.e. injury not revealed till after the catastrophe for tactics. excuse me if im a bit cynical. how does one ride with a fractured elbow anyway? any sort of pressure on it will incapacitate you


Prolly managed to ride on it cause its cracked not fully broken and hes a hell of alot tougher than most people. Like I said you never see him stand on the climb so he managed to ride cause he did not put much pressure on it and as a result could not ride as hard as he might have been able too.

Edit: There are a few images up of him standing but when he went out the back it was on the steep section and he was not out of the saddle mashing a huge gear which is his customary way.


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## jan_nikolajsen (Dec 25, 2009)

Salsa_Lover said:


> From the live interview with Andy Schleck sur FR2
> 
> "Contador didn't want to make a move, I attacked as much as I could, If I attacked one more time probably it would have been me who cracked, so Contador told me, let's just roll together from here and we'll define this later one between us"


Interesting... It did look that way. They talked a lot mid way through the climb.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

cant wait to watch this when i get home.

looks like it is a two man race (if no crashes, illnes, mechs, blahblahblah


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## thesmokingman (Dec 27, 2008)

Salsa_Lover said:


> From the live interview with Andy Schleck sur FR2
> 
> "Contador didn't want to make a move, I attacked as much as I could, If I attacked one more time probably it would have been me who cracked, so Contador told me, let's just roll together from here and we'll define this later one between us"


I can't help but think that Andy isn't ready yet. Needs more killer instinct.


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## muscleendurance (Jan 11, 2009)

great stage, refreshing racing, down with superteams! stages like this dont go how they use to thankfully


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Chapeau to Casar for smart racing - who you guys may recall lost a similar stage to Sanchez last year, when Sanchez outsmarted Casar.

I love to see the tables turn like that! Two cagey riders.


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## muscleendurance (Jan 11, 2009)

Creakyknees said:


> Chapeau to Casar for smart racing - who you guys may recall lost a similar stage to Sanchez last year, when Sanchez outsmarted Casar.
> 
> I love to see the tables turn like that! Two cagey riders.


Casar nearly got mugged though, with the contador group, he was lucky to carry it off the way he finished it off.


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## majura (Apr 21, 2007)

tinkerbeast said:


> sounds a bit like his reason for dropping in the giro, i.e. injury not revealed till after the catastrophe for tactics. excuse me if im a bit cynical. how does one ride with a fractured elbow anyway? any sort of pressure on it will incapacitate you


1) He's Australian. google: "Aussie Battler" for the gist of the idea.
2) It's the Tour 
3) He's wearing Yellow
4) His team was built around him winning grand tour and have worked their arses off for him.
5) It's the Tour.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

weltyed said:


> looks like it is a two man race (if no crashes, illnes, mechs, blahblahblah


LOL, that's a very big IF in this Tour!


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## g29er (Mar 28, 2009)

Contador is only 41 seconds down. If I were him I wouldn't worry too much about Andy. Andy is riding well, but he is not going to put significant time into Contador. All AC has to do is hang in there and wait until the ITT to take a minute or 2 off of Schleck.


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## harlond (May 30, 2005)

thesmokingman said:


> I can't help but think that Andy isn't ready yet. Needs more killer instinct.


Andy killed a lot of people's chances today. If he'd cracked attacking Contador, he might have killed his own. Seems like success to me. Killer instinct or not, you've got to pick your spots.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

g29er said:


> Contador is only 41 seconds down. If I were him I wouldn't worry too much about Andy. Andy is riding well, but he is not going to put significant time into Contador. All AC has to do is hang in there and wait until the ITT to take a minute or 2 off of Schleck.


I dunno. Andy is having some explosive climbing this Tour. I wonder if he'll start trying to drop Contador closer to finishes to start putting little bits of time on him before the time trial.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

majura said:


> 1) He's Australian. google: "Aussie Battler" for the gist of the idea.
> 2) It's the Tour
> 3) He's wearing Yellow
> 4) His team was built around him winning grand tour and have worked their arses off for him.
> 5) It's the Tour.


It is a real shame he couldn't do it in this years Tour on his rainbow jersey.

Cadel is the best world champion we had recently. noone can take that away from him. 

Next WC won't favor him anyway..... maybe the Vuelta ?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Salsa_Lover said:


> Next WC won't favor him anyway..... maybe the Vuelta ?


One can only hope, although hard to imagine coming back for the Vuelta after the TdF and Giro. It would be nice to see him do well in the Vuelta, especially after last year's tire change and getting squeezed out for a sprint and time bonus.


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## Ridin'Sorra (Sep 7, 2004)

spade2you said:


> I dunno. Andy is having some explosive climbing this Tour. I wonder if he'll start trying to drop Contador closer to finishes to start putting little bits of time on him before the time trial.


Yeah, he'd probably think about it... but that's playing under the assumption that Contador really can't answer. One false move and Contador may crack Andy.

Andy is racing with his head, that's something champions do. Schumacher was sometimes criticized for cruising in second place or not risking a fastest lap... you can't argue against success, though.

It's a long race and Contador may actually be just doing that... leave it for later.

More climbing and the Pyrenees to go... nothing is definitive yet. However, it's clearly a race between these two.


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## thesmokingman (Dec 27, 2008)

harlond said:


> Andy killed a lot of people's chances today. If he'd cracked attacking Contador, he might have killed his own. Seems like success to me. Killer instinct or not, you've got to pick your spots.


That's not the point, the point is why is he giving in to his main rival? It's not like there was anyone else that was worth worrying over. After that, why is he admitting in interviews that he gave in to AC's request? He's going to do what now wait until AC is feeling really good to attack him?


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

thesmokingman said:


> That's not the point, the point is why is he giving in to his main rival? It's not like there was anyone else that was worth worrying over. After that, why is he admitting in interviews that he gave in to AC's request? He's going to do what now wait until AC is feeling really good to attack him?


Both Schleck and Contador had far more to gain by working together than by trying to kill each other on this stage.


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## Swish (Jul 31, 2004)

Creakyknees said:


> Chapeau to Casar for smart racing - who you guys may recall lost a similar stage to Sanchez last year, when Sanchez outsmarted Casar.
> 
> I love to see the tables turn like that! Two cagey riders.


Casar pulled the chase group 90% of the time in the last 20 km, he found himself in the most vulnerable position, just like last year. This time, fortunately, he had the better legs.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Ridin'Sorra said:


> Yeah, he'd probably think about it... but that's playing under the assumption that Contador really can't answer. One false move and Contador may crack Andy.
> 
> Andy is racing with his head, that's something champions do. Schumacher was sometimes criticized for cruising in second place or not risking a fastest lap... you can't argue against success, though.
> 
> ...


True. At this point, I haven't seen Contador respond with the aggression he seemed to have in abundance last year. I have no doubts with Contador in the ITT, but Andy seems to have a little extra burst this year. Still plenty of racing, but this could be a close one.


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## thesmokingman (Dec 27, 2008)

pretender said:


> Both Schleck and Contador had far more to gain by working together than by trying to kill each other on this stage.


Brilliant. Instead of having a close pack where AC gets attacked by all comers, its now just one guy AC has to concentrate on.


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## harlond (May 30, 2005)

thesmokingman said:


> That's not the point, the point is why is he giving in to his main rival? It's not like there was anyone else that was worth worrying over. After that, why is he admitting in interviews that he gave in to AC's request? He's going to do what now wait until AC is feeling really good to attack him?


The way it seems to me, going into the stage, Schleck had two main rivals and a host of secondary rivals. Coming out, he has one rival. He didn't give in to Contador, he used him (as Contador used Schleck) to further distance his former rivals and give himself a chance at another stage win, and to achieve this, all he had to do was avoid taking unnecessary risks. There was a long descent after the climb and Contador is a better descender and time-trialist than Schleck, so unless he could put a minute into Contador, Schleck wasn't very likely to stay away on the long run-in. By cooperating with Contador, he put himself into position where he didn't have to take risks on the descent and had help in keeping and extending the gaps they had created. We can speculate that Contador was about to pop if only Schleck had attached again, but I don't see any lack of killer instinct if Schleck decided to take the bird in hand.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

thesmokingman said:


> Brilliant. Instead of having a close pack where AC gets attacked by all comers, its now just one guy AC has to concentrate on.


This is utterly kooky. How is having only one guy to worry about a _good_ thing for Contador, but a _bad_ thing for Schleck?

[Not to mention that the profile of today's stage made it exactly the wrong time to try to put time into Contador by soloing away from him.]


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

Schleck was at his absolute limit just before the summit of the Madeleine. The head on shots of his face and eyes clearly show this. At this point Contador was in better shape. I am now confident that Contador is trying to force Schleck to burn himself out (a Slug Fest), just like Ali did with Foreman. He will only deliver the knockout blow when Andy is unable to withstand a puff of wind.

I am full of admiration for this New Schleck, but Alberto will prevail.

BTW Cadel was riding with a broken elbow. This is why he was blown away today.


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## LesDiablesRouges (Jul 17, 2009)

The reason why Schleck isolating himself with Alberto is bad is that Schleck can't take him 1v1 imo. 

However, if Contador has to mark attacks from multiple contenders you get what happened in stage 8.


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## Vicbowling (Apr 29, 2010)

fixies​


albert owen said:


> Schleck was at his absolute limit just before the summit of the Madeleine. The head on shots of his face and eyes clearly show this. At this point Contador was in better shape. I am now confident that Contador is trying to force Schleck to burn himself out (a Slug Fest), just like Ali did with Foreman. He will only deliver the knockout blow when Andy is unable to withstand a puff of wind.
> 
> I am full of admiration for this New Schleck, but Alberto will prevail.
> 
> BTW Cadel was riding with a broken elbow. This is why he was blown away today.


Schleck rules! I have to agree though that Alberto will beat him. :crazy:


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## mangotreat0808 (Sep 4, 2006)

albert owen said:


> Schleck was at his absolute limit just before the summit of the Madeleine. The head on shots of his face and eyes clearly show this. At this point Contador was in better shape. I am now confident that Contador is trying to force Schleck to burn himself out (a Slug Fest), just like Ali did with Foreman. He will only deliver the knockout blow when Andy is unable to withstand a puff of wind.


Wasn't that d most epic boxing event of 'em all, where Ali rope-a-doped a much bigger George Foreman and in the ending rounds George was so cooked he couldn't lift a hand and ate up all of Ali's succession of gloves.

I does look like a slug fest, but I think these two are way above the level of the rest of the field they're literally pushing each other, and themselves to an absolute limit. I even noticed AC an excellent descender, scrub speed on the long descent of Madeleine, just cause he's so cooked he dadn't wanna take any chances on those tight curves. Same goes for Andy, of course, but we know Andy doesn't descend as well as Conti. And look at Sammy S, prolly the best descender in the GC field, also struggle as he sweeps the bottom of the descent but somehow couldn't bridge the gap with the Andy-Conti group when at one point he was just 10 seconds away because he was fully gassed out! This edition of the tdf is not for the average joe !!


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## 95zpro (Mar 28, 2010)

albert owen said:


> Schleck was at his absolute limit just before the summit of the Madeleine. The head on shots of his face and eyes clearly show this. At this point Contador was in better shape. I am now confident that Contador is trying to force Schleck to burn himself out (a Slug Fest), just like Ali did with Foreman. He will only deliver the knockout blow when Andy is unable to withstand a puff of wind.]
> 
> I agree with you; Andy seemed to be really straining and it seemed like AC was just marking him every time Andy attacked. AC looked like he was playing a game of cat and mouse; I have a feeling after a few more mountain stages AC is going to drop the hammer and claim the tour!


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## thesmokingman (Dec 27, 2008)

LesDiablesRouges said:


> The reason why Schleck isolating himself with Alberto is bad is that Schleck can't take him 1v1 imo.
> 
> However, if Contador has to mark attacks from multiple contenders you get what happened in stage 8.


Thank you, someone understood.



pretender said:


> This is utterly kooky. How is having only one guy to worry about a _good_ thing for Contador, but a _bad_ thing for Schleck?
> 
> [Not to mention that the profile of today's stage made it exactly the wrong time to try to put time into Contador by soloing away from him.]


Kooky? What's better for AC, having one guy to worry about and the rest so far away that its hopeless for them to attempt to fight on or having a a bunch of GC contenders taking turns attacking him?

As quoted above, Shleck can't take on AC 1 on 1, and since he sucks at the TT the outcome is easy to figure out.

What Schleck has done is literally help the one dude he can't beat flat out, and taken away all the angles that would have helped Schleck himself instead.


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## louise (May 24, 2010)

Exactly.

Alberto put the Tour away today. Barring a crash or a bonk.

All the people who have saying he wasn't tough enough, or wasn't smart enough. Today he sealed it.

I thought it was funny watching them on the downhill. Contador hitting the brake to avoid lodging his nose in Andy's backside.

Alberto came away from today, with exactly the result he wanted. Schleck borrowing the yellow jersey for a few days, probably until stage 17, and then Alberto will relieve him of the burden of caring for it.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

thesmokingman said:


> Kooky? What's better for AC, having one guy to worry about and the rest so far away that its hopeless for them to attempt to fight on or having a a bunch of GC contenders taking turns attacking him?


What's better for Schleck, having one guy to worry about and the rest so far away that its hopeless for them to attempt to fight on or having a a bunch of GC contenders taking turns attacking him?

To win the Tour, Schleck has to beat Contador, but he also has to beat everyone else. Both guys are rightfully pleased to have gapped the rest of the competition, because it increases each of their chances of winning. Every attack "on Contador" from a genuine GC contender would also be an attack on Schleck. The idea that Schleck would preferentially and magically benefit from more chaos in the GC is illogical.


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## innergel (Jun 14, 2002)

Of all the stages that I decided to skip, I picked last night. Now I'm gonna have to stay up until 2am to watch yesterday AND today. 

And I'm leaving for vacation Saturday morning, so I gotta figure out how to watch some of the stages while I'm gone. I'm not sure our cabin has satellite. Looks like the laptop is coming along.


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

innergel said:


> Of all the stages that I decided to skip, I picked last night. Now I'm gonna have to stay up until 2am to watch yesterday AND today.
> 
> And I'm leaving for vacation Saturday morning, so I gotta figure out how to watch some of the stages while I'm gone. I'm not sure our cabin has satellite. Looks like the laptop is coming along.


Absolutely worth the watch--best racing I can remember. I actually watched parts over again on Versus...


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