# Let there be light!



## BentChainring (Jun 23, 2005)

Omg Omg Omg Omg....


----------



## bsaunder (Oct 27, 2004)

I got a Seca 700 Race a couple months ago - awesome light! :thumbsup:


----------



## BentChainring (Jun 23, 2005)

I looked into it... I think I hurt my brain...

:thumbsup:

nK


----------



## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

BentChainring said:


> I looked into it... I think I hurt my brain...
> 
> :thumbsup:
> 
> nK


look at the impression burned on the wall behind you


----------



## Ridgetop (Mar 1, 2005)

I'm broke. Can you send me one?


----------



## aliensporebomb (Jul 2, 2002)

How many lumens?

Brighter than THIS?









On helmet

Nuking my backyard last summer:









If it's brighter, I need to know where you got it, how much and is it HOT ENOUGH
TO COOK A DARN EGG like this light is when you get done using it?


----------



## aliensporebomb (Jul 2, 2002)

Wait a second.

Checked a few links.

700 lumen!

W0000T!

I think I need one.

I'll put it on my handlebar and keep that other thing on my helmet.

DOUBLE THE LIGHT!


----------



## rellimreeb (Jul 29, 2007)

BentChainring said:


> Omg Omg Omg Omg....


sweet - you ought to be able to blind a few oncoming motorists with that beast.


----------



## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

you're welcome


----------



## mrbubbles (Jul 1, 2007)

Decent light but overpriced for 700 lumens. For 1/3 the price of $549, 3 P7 flashlights can dump out 2100 lumens.


----------



## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

mrbubbles said:


> Decent light but overpriced for 700 lumens. For 1/3 the price of $549, 3 P7 flashlights can dump out 2100 lumens.




there's more to it than lumens... the beam is a selling point


----------



## ChuckUni (Jan 2, 2003)

mrbubbles said:


> Decent light but overpriced for 700 lumens. For 1/3 the price of $549, 3 P7 flashlights can dump out 2100 lumens.


People say this all the time, but I have yet to see a smooth, light weight, and well (or easy) put together home built or flashlight setup.  You can get the p7s themselves very cheap, but it's the rest of the package that makes it worth it, IMO. There are a few complete, bike specific, 700 lumen p7 setups out now for ~$200. But, again, you get what you pay for (in most cases). 

Oh, if your gonna go BIG get the Lupine Betty! :-D


----------



## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

What's up is with all of these little "put these random flashlights on your bike" ideas? I've never messed with it... how do you handle batteries? What kind of life do you get?

Also, I know that lumens at the lens is not the "only" measure of what kind of light you REALLY see, but I'm not sure how the real-world Seca would compare to the real-world P7 action.


----------



## ChuckUni (Jan 2, 2003)

Argentius said:


> What's up is with all of these little "put these random flashlights on your bike" ideas? I've never messed with it... how do you handle batteries? What kind of life do you get?
> 
> Also, I know that lumens at the lens is not the "only" measure of what kind of light you REALLY see, but I'm not sure how the real-world Seca would compare to the real-world P7 action.


Check out MTBR's light forum. They go over and over and over the stuff, but it's good because there are often tests with pictures.

I have a 09 Lupine Wilma that I use getting to/from trails and around town. Get the "TURN YOUR HIGH BEAM OFF" once in a while. I normally keep it pointed down, but being mounted on the helmet I can aim it at any threat with ease. Like a shot across the bow. Works wonders, especially since people run stop signs, etc around here constantly.


----------



## mrbubbles (Jul 1, 2007)

MTBR has a big thread that covers the P7 LED flashlights. "Bike specific lights" are essentially glorified flashlights, they don't necessarily perform better. 

For the record, I don't use flashlights as my bike light, but I have tried it with a 200 lumen flashlight, it works well, and is much tidier than battery and light setup like Niterider's Sol or Minewt.



FatTireFred said:


> there's more to it than lumens... the beam is a selling point


A poster at bikeforums.net with the P7 compared it to his coworker's Seca 700, the beam on his P7 is just a bit wider, the brightness is equal. I'm all for buying what you want, but paying $550 for so called "bike specific light" with proprietary battery is to some extent outrageous. 



Argentius said:


> What's up is with all of these little "put these random flashlights on your bike" ideas? I've never messed with it... how do you handle batteries? What kind of life do you get?


If you never tried it, don't criticize it. Flashlight holders for bike handlebar works.

Here's a simpler thread to read about this LED flashlight.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=493600


----------



## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

sure 18650s are not proprietary, but if the light is the only thing that you have that uses 'em they might as well be... so factor in battery and charger for costs. and don't forget reliability and other issues (flicker). plus, some people are not comfy buying direct from China (altho dx is fine, if kinda slow) w/ no warranty. fwiw, I use fenixes and a hid, depending on use. and nobody should pay full price on anything!




.


----------



## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

Argentius said:


> What's up is with all of these little "put these random flashlights on your bike" ideas? I've never messed with it... how do you handle batteries? What kind of life do you get?
> 
> Also, I know that lumens at the lens is not the "only" measure of what kind of light you REALLY see, but I'm not sure how the real-world Seca would compare to the real-world P7 action.




new led flashlights really are kickazz, and cheap at dx... if you're strapped for cash it's a good way to go


----------



## BentChainring (Jun 23, 2005)

First, I only paid $269 to upgrade to the SECA 700. I already owned the HID Arc light. I wouldnt pay $500 for the SECA, because I agree, its pretty outrageous. 

Second, I ride in los angeles. I dont 'eff around. My light goes out, my commute becomes crappy. Drivers here dont understand bicycles. THey do understand a bright-arse light bearing down on them, if they dont know what it is... they dont push it. 

I have built custom halogen systems (short lives), wiht machined housings, and big batteries. They work well, but reliability was a problem. I like L&M's product, and I like the upgrade deal. So, it works for me. Use whatever keeps you safe. 

nK


----------



## ChuckUni (Jan 2, 2003)

Yep. And in my case I have dual use for my light as an around towner and trail riding light. Trail means helmet mount, where the flashlight types fall way short as far as weight and mounting. The all in one/flashlight could be easier for the bar mount, assuming you don't need massive battery life. 

I like using the helmet light around town too. It might be dorky, but being able to aim it at will is awesome. Plus I have it mounted to a second helmet. Ready to go with any bike I choose, just throw the battery in my pocket/bag, helmet on and go....

Not defending the costs, as with many things bike related, some stuff is out of control. But there are differences in quality, ease of upgrade, support....etc etc.


----------



## aliensporebomb (Jul 2, 2002)

My 725 lumen HID actually has had numerous motorists double back and ask me what
kind of light it is because they were cyclists themselves and wanted to know what it was.

But I like the fact that LED doesn't have some of the issues that HID does - instant
on (hid ramp up time on my own setup isn't terrible but if it goes out and you're moving
at 20 miles an hour in the dark well).

So even though it's a pricey light, my experience is that too much light isn't enough
sometimes and having a backup to a single expensive light can be good too.

When my wife was commuting at odd times of the year we went with her 25 watt
halogen and my 15 watt HID and lots of blinkies and we were lit up like a cargo 
plane - it might seem excessive but motorists don't expect to see you during the
late fall/early winter and sometimes it's the difference between a motorist veering
away from the bright light and some poor cyclist getting hit.


----------



## Leopold Porkstacker (Jul 15, 2005)

Don’t worry—I won’t mention my custom light setup that outperforms all of yours AGAIN as I did in other threads, since it was pissing people off to find out that they spent 2/3 more than necessary for stuff made in China.

Woops, too late. I guessed I mentioned it. Perhaps I can take recent pictures of the setup and SPAM another new topic about it.


----------



## BentChainring (Jun 23, 2005)

Leopold Porkstacker said:


> Don’t worry—I won’t mention my custom light setup that outperforms all of yours AGAIN as I did in other threads, since it was pissing people off to find out that they spent 2/3 more than necessary for stuff made in China.
> 
> Woops, too late. I guessed I mentioned it. Perhaps I can take recent pictures of the setup and SPAM another new topic about it.


I have made custom light systems too. 40W Halogen which was pretty damn bright. However, I need something dead simple, uber-reliable, and ready now. That, and I havent done the research on driving 5 & 10W LED's. 

What kind of IC's do you put in front of the high wattage LED's?

nK


----------



## Art853 (May 30, 2003)

Any comments on the Black Diamond Icon? 
It's a 3w LED plus four 0.5w LEDs on 3 AA batteries. 
70-140 hour run time and 80m beam distance. $60.

http://www.rei.com/product/745183


----------



## bsaunder (Oct 27, 2004)

Leopold Porkstacker said:


> Don’t worry—I won’t mention my custom light setup that outperforms all of yours AGAIN as I did in other threads, since it was pissing people off to find out that they spent 2/3 more than necessary for stuff made in China.
> 
> Woops, too late. I guessed I mentioned it. Perhaps I can take recent pictures of the setup and SPAM another new topic about it.


I'm actually quite fine with spending the money as my time is worth it to me. I'd love to build up a custom setup one of these days as I know I can do it for less money and get exactly what I want; however for now, spending time with my daughter and helping my pregnant wife has a much higher priority for my time. I could give up riding time to work on it, but then that would kinda defeat the purpose, so for now - I'll spend "too much money" as I can afford the dollars to buy it and choose not to afford the time to build it.


----------



## Tweezak (Dec 6, 2008)

It's been mentioned but nobody linked.

There's a great review of lights here:
http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/category/lights-shootout/

Measured light output comparisons are about halfway down the page.

Beamshots and side-by-side comparisons are here:
http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/bike-lights-shootout-beam-pattern-comparison/

As far as bike light versus flashlight...the high-output low-cost flashlights seem tempting but I've heard about too many issues with broken switches, poor construction and excessive heating. A quality bike light should be helmet or handlebar mountable and should have a remote battery arrangement to keep the light itself small. It should also have adequate heat sinking. I'm running a Dinotte 200L-AAS on my helmet for commuting so I can aim it directly at drivers who are about to pull into me. It's fun lighting up the whole inside of someone's car. They always jam the brakes thinking they are about to get hit by a garbage truck.


----------



## Squidward (Dec 18, 2005)

Art853 said:


> Any comments on the Black Diamond Icon?
> It's a 3w LED plus four 0.5w LEDs on 3 AA batteries.
> 70-140 hour run time and 80m beam distance. $60.
> 
> http://www.rei.com/product/745183


If this is your only light then it will not be enough to light up the road in front of you. Depending on your primary light this light will all but disappear.

I ran a Coleman Cree headlamp that probably produced a very real 70-ish lumens (despite being advertised as being able to produce 105 lumens) and it just about disappeared when I turned on my handlebar mounted Minewt Mini-USB, which is rated at 110 lumens. The only reason I bothered using it was that I could point it at inattentive drivers if needed.


----------



## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

mrbubbles said:


> If you never tried it, don't criticize it. Flashlight holders for bike handlebar works.


I have tried it, and while bike specific lights are _way_ overpriced (I expect this to change as manufacturers see that people are actually spending $500 for a bike specific light made from $3 worth of parts- the law of supply and demand will push prices down) I prefer them. The problem with putting a flashlight on your handlebars is you've got a flashlight on your handlebars. Flashlights (the ones I've tried) have a beam pattern that's too narrow. 

There is a problem with this new generation of bike lights (maybe best for a new thread). People don't know how to use them. They point them straight ahead like a high beam headlight, are amazed that they can see reflective signs a mile away, and don't realize they are blinding people. Blind drivers and riders are counterproductive to having the light. If you're on a MUT and an approaching rider can't see the edge of the trail he moves in, towards you. A blind driver can also drift toward you, or cause an accident you get involved in. If you're going to have bright lights angle them down. You'll see, be seen, and be safe.


----------



## Leopold Porkstacker (Jul 15, 2005)

BentChainring said:


> I have made custom light systems too. 40W Halogen which was pretty damn bright. However, I need something dead simple, uber-reliable, and ready now. That, and I havent done the research on driving 5 & 10W LED's.
> 
> What kind of IC's do you put in front of the high wattage LED's?
> 
> nK


My systems are “over-reliable”, as you reference with your “uber-reliable” rangulage, since “uber” is German for “over”.

HEADLIGHTS

The first one I made from the Copperhead plans from bikeled.org, and uses two Luxeon K2 LEDs and one LedEngin (5W? 7W? cannot remember) driven by a 1000mA BuckPuck controller. Power is fed by a rechargeable Li-ion 14.8V 4400mAh battery pack. My wife currently uses this setup, since I know it will always work if the battery has a decent charge to it. Heavy-duty housing too.

The second one I made (my current one in use) uses a 10W (or is it 12W???) module with nine (9) actual emitters on the LED die. The actual specifications I haven’t been able to find out, since the manufacturer/distributors aren’t really happy to entertain such questions (they are in China, perhaps they are Chinese government-made???). However, I’d estimate the light output of the unit to be more than three Luxeon K2s run at 1000mA. Anyhow, this unit generates so much heat output when run through a 1000mA BuckPuck (even with a beefy-ass aluminum heatsink Arctic Alumina’d to it) that I had to hook it up via a 555 timer IC circuit (a “flasher” circuit) so as to let the unit cool down between flashes (the heatsink got hot enough to be uncomfortable against human skin). The optic I chose to use (from DealExtreme.com) was meant to be used with a single CREE XR-E for a 120V/220V AC lightbulb module (beefy machined aluminum heatsink housing) and is very good at projecting the beam a great distance (will illuminate those semi-reflective-coated green w/white lettered road signs about 800 feet away), yet it has decent spread so that I can see crap on the road 30 or so feet in front of me while riding at night. Same power source--14.8V 4400mAh Li-ion battery pack. Runs continuously about 3 hours or so on a full charge. Anyway, I honestly have no idea of the actual lumen output, it could be as little as 600 or higher than 900.

Don’t bother with any LEDs with a higher wattage/heat output than 5 - 7W unless you plan on custom designing/machining your own exceptional heat sinking design--with more heatsinking material comes a heavier weight to lug around on your bike.

TAILLIGHTS

A basic 555 timer IC flashing unit with a MOSFET (for current regulation) driving three and four Lumileds Luxeon LXHL-LH3C modules with optics. The units each use two 1.5V AA cells, although I am working on integrating them into a shared power feed system that pipes into them from the 14.8V Li-ion units. Each LED is rated at 190 lumens, although I am “underdriving” so each one is realistically pumping out around 100 lumens. I am using those crappy $5 each “Bike LED Flasher” units you see on eBay that are made in…TADA—China! Cobbled together with silicone caulking and epoxy resin, they are 100% submersible in water.

My bike used to be a 15.6 pound bike, but in full commuter trim (spare tubes/tires, toolkit, frame bag, pump, lights + batteries) It’s got to be over 20 pounds.

I know, I know, “Leopold Porkstacker’s post is useless without pictures”. Working on it.


----------



## mrbubbles (Jul 1, 2007)

Leopold Porkstacker said:


> snip


Speak in laymen terms, you are making it too complicated for people who have never DIY.

555 timer IC circuit? Mosfet? I know what those are, but I'll stick to simple $4 driver boards from DX. Fatman from taskled.com is pretty good as well.


----------



## Leopold Porkstacker (Jul 15, 2005)

mrbubbles said:


> Speak in laymen terms, you are making it too complicated for people who have never DIY.
> 
> 555 timer IC circuit? Mosfet? I know what those are, but I'll stick to simple $4 driver boards from DX. Fatman from taskled.com is pretty good as well.


I’m still waiting for my shipment from Deal Extreme for some 1.5A (supposed) multipurpose driver circuits. The order was placed on December 12th, 2008.

-he who stacks pork


----------



## Jeff G (Jul 22, 2005)

I know I'm reviving an older thread here but I don't want to suffer the old "paralysis through analysis" syndrome. My current setup is a L & M Solo and Blackburn Quad 4 (I think that the model) mounted on the handlebar. I only use the Blackburn on my ride to work as traffic is very light at that time of the morning, it runs constant with flash mode. On the ride home, with increased traffic, I use both. I have a Cateye blinkie on the seatpost and wear a reflective vest. I have read all the differnet threads here and on other sites, about the pros and cons of the LED flashlights. I want to add a helmet mounted light for the least amount of money possible and the LED flashlight appears to be the least expensive way to go. I know the prices are fairly cheap from Dealsextreme or some of the Chinese sellers on Ebay (of course they get you with the shipping fees). I have found a US retailer, Shiningbeam.com that sells the flashlight and batteries but no chargers or helmet mounting kit. Does anyone know of any other US based online sellers where I can get everything I need, flashlight, rechargeable batteries, charger and helmet mount?


----------



## Slim Again Soon (Oct 25, 2005)

It is easy to mount a flashlight to a helmet -- just use zip ties.

I've got two Fenix flashlights up there, zip-tied in place. Works great. Uber-cheap, too.


----------



## Art853 (May 30, 2003)

The BD Icon would be a brighter light for me. I use a regular cateye blinky headlight now, just to help be seen. I can see the road fine from all the streetlamps since I ride in urban areas on low traffic roads. The lcon is rated at 625 lux max but I'm not sure how to convert that to lumens if I don't know the area they used to measure the light.


----------



## rmp (Aug 25, 2004)

Leopold Porkstacker said:


> I know, I know, “Leopold Porkstacker’s post is useless without pictures”. Working on it.


and....?


----------



## Leopold Porkstacker (Jul 15, 2005)

rmp said:


> and....?


OK, here are shots from the rear setup:

https://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=2375041&postcount=25

And here are some other random shots of the front and rear lights:


































































I still need to figure out a way to take a night time beamshot, (perhaps a video from two miles away???) in order to capture just how bright the setup I am running is.


----------



## Art853 (May 30, 2003)

I would like to have brighter lights available for my bike (from standard blinkies) and I'm considering attempting to make the Leopold light. Thanks for the writeup! http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=163111

Some concerns are that it seems best to be permanantly mounted the the bike. A helmet mounted light would have some advantages in being able to swivel it while riding and also for theft prevention and less exposure to weather. My bike gets exposed to the elements a lot and also locked up in places where people might take things off of the bike.

Do you have any changes if you were to make another one today? Are the heat sink and housing materials found in typical hardware stores? 

Thanks.


----------



## Squidward (Dec 18, 2005)

Having done the commuting thing with lights I will say that it is much more convenient to have one-piece blinkies and headlights but the reality is that two-piece systems are more versatile and more powerful. Depending on the attachment method they can be easy to remove or a PITA. Since Leopold Porkstacker's lights are custom the attachment system is up to you. I like the way that NiteRider mounts the battery to the bike (shaped rubber piece on the side of the battery with slots for a Velcro strap with buckle, just thread the loose end of the Velcro through the buckle and pull it tight around the part you are attaching it to before laying the Velcro onto itself). I don't like the rubber band attachment method that they use to attach the light head to the handlebar because it cannot be done with full-finger gloves on and it's extremely difficult to do with cold or wet or cold and wet fingers. What may be ideal for you would be a removable battery pack ala NiteRider and a tail light head that is bolted onto the frame to make it difficult for someone to remove. Even if they remove it they only have part of a light and will have to guess as to the power source, making it less desireable.

Those heatsink things are available from DealExtreme and they come with optics. If I ever get off my lazy rear end I might just make myself one of these lights but I will be machining my own heatsink/enclosures. I'm starting to think that an amber tail light combined with a red blinkie might be different enough to make me stand out as a cyclist among the cars out on the open road.


----------



## ChilliConCarnage (Jun 1, 2006)

If you don't want to roll your own, the folks at MTBR seem to love the MagicShines from GeoManGear.com. After reading a whole bunch on them, I ordered up two. At only $89/ea, these suckers are bright, and build quality is way above what I thought I'd be getting. Now it's time to retire all my old NiteRiders.,...


----------



## cydswipe (Mar 7, 2002)

I get velcro straps from the local hobby place that have slots for self looping. I use a Planet Bike SuperWhatever it's called clipped to the back of my helmet. Works great in urban environments or out in the country.


----------

