# Which Custom Steel Builder?



## wchinchen (Aug 23, 2004)

I am going to retire my old ride soon, and have narrowed down the choices to a few custom steel road bike builders. Any input from you guys will be helpful in narrowing the choice further. Currently I am thinking about a Landshark from gvhbikes.com, Curtlo, Serrota/Seven from LBS, or a Tet. What are your opinions/experiences with their customer service, quality of the welds, ability to work with you on your customization, etc.. 

Thank you,
Wei


----------



## Bikinfoolferlife (Aug 13, 2004)

*I was going thru a similar list recently,*

but was also thinking of Kelly, Steelman, Sycip, Rock Lobster, Waterford, Rivendell, Soulcraft. Those are just the smaller mostly local builders; I went into choice shock I think and I never did pull the trigger (I ended being budget friendly by buying a closeout TST ti road frame and am swapping most of my old stuff over). Next time maybe I'll do it and get finally get that custom steel bike and have to make up my mind...then there's deciding if I wanted a road bike, a cross bike or maybe something in between. 

If money weren't an issue I'd go Steelman, but it was and was leaning Curtlo. Wish I could have one of each! Sorry not to be of any help, but I liked your list.


----------



## joselito (Mar 12, 2002)

*Dont forget...*

Sacha White.....www.vanillabicycles.com


Jose


----------



## DaveT (Feb 12, 2004)

wchinchen said:


> I am going to retire my old ride soon, and have narrowed down the choices to a few custom steel road bike builders. Any input from you guys will be helpful in narrowing the choice further. Currently I am thinking about a Landshark from gvhbikes.com, Curtlo, Serrota/Seven from LBS, or a Tet. What are your opinions/experiences with their customer service, quality of the welds, ability to work with you on your customization, etc..
> 
> Thank you,
> Wei


From my personal experiences, Dave Kirk of Kirk Frameworks ( http://www.kirkframeworks.com/ ) is the best. I was his first retail customer and his (I think) fifteenth also. He worked for Serotta for 10 years before hanging out his shingle. Among his palmares is the fact that he personally built the 7-11 TdF team bikes while he was at Serotta. A neat guy, very knowledgeable and easy to work with. He builds in steel only, and can do most whatever you would want.

See the Kirk picture gallery at BikeFanClub: http://www.bikefanclub.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=518&password=

Dave has my highest recommendation.


----------



## wchinchen (Aug 23, 2004)

Thanks alot guys! I am going to give Kirk a call after I get a professional fit. It is going to be a toss up between Landshark and Kirk. 

Wei


----------



## msylvan (Feb 9, 2004)

*Try Strong Frames...*

a contemporary of Dave Kirk, Carl Stong builds incredible bikes in Bozeman, Monatana. You would be remiss in failing to check him out at www.strongframes.com. BTW, Dave Kirk used to work for Carl.

Best,

Michael


----------



## Chainslap (Jun 2, 2004)

http://www.kishbike.com 

Jim Kish teaches Ti Frame building classes at the UBI and is a well known builder in the Bicycle Industry. He might not be as big of a name as the guys youall are talking about, but he definitely knows his stuff


----------



## DaveT (Feb 12, 2004)

wchinchen said:


> Thanks alot guys! I am going to give Kirk a call after I get a professional fit. It is going to be a toss up between Landshark and Kirk.
> 
> Wei


When you talk to Dave, tell him Hi from Dave in Spokane!


----------



## Steelrider (Aug 31, 2004)

wchinchen said:


> I am going to retire my old ride soon, and have narrowed down the choices to a few custom steel road bike builders. Any input from you guys will be helpful in narrowing the choice further. Currently I am thinking about a Landshark from gvhbikes.com, Curtlo, Serrota/Seven from LBS, or a Tet. What are your opinions/experiences with their customer service, quality of the welds, ability to work with you on your customization, etc..
> 
> Thank you,
> Wei


Hi Wei,

Don't know where you live, but you might consider Albert Eisentraut in Oakland, CA. I have owned for 12 years and have loved every minute of every ride. Compatriot from another forum just took delivery and took trouble to post some info, so link is below. Many of the builders you know of learned from Eisentraut.

http://www.litman.com/bikes/eisentraut.htm

Good luck and look forward to hearing what you ended up with...


----------



## hokeypokey3 (Jun 23, 2003)

*Another vote for LANDSHARK...*

You can not go wrong with any of the builders that have been mentioned. I recieved my Landshark earlier this summer (check out "completed Landshark" post on this site) and was extremely happy with building process and evenyual ride quality. I went with fully fillet brazed, absolutely beautiful. John is a pleasure to talk with. 
Good luck with the new bike. There is no "bad" choice with custom bikes.
Tim


----------



## Old Bones (Jun 29, 2002)

*Ditto on the Shark*

Love mine. Loved working with Slawta. Used GVH.


----------



## wchinchen (Aug 23, 2004)

*Thanks again*

Thanks again folks for listing additional frame builders. I am going to get a fit session this coming Friday and will make phone calls to those builders listed. 

Wei


----------



## CFBlue (Jun 28, 1999)

*My short list*

My short list for custom steel builders in the USA goes like this.

Lugged Builder:
Richard Sachs 
There is no other lugged builder out there that comes close to the amount of time this man spends on building one bike. Check out his method of pinning. Talk about time consuming!

Lugless Builder:
Landshark
Another vote for John Slawta of Landshark. Slawta was the builder of Hamsten's frame that won the Giro in '88.

Lugless Builder:
Yamaguchi Bicycles
One vote for Koichi Yamaguchi of Yamaguchi Bicycles in Colorado. No other builder has the reputation and accolades of this man. Was the last ever builder selected (not appointed by sponsorship dollars, but bonafide selected) by the US Olympic Team to build frames for the Olympic Teams back in the early 90s.

TIG Builder:
Steelman
And if you are into the TIG look, Brent Steelman's frames are impeccable. I've seen them up close. Very nice work. Expensive, but you get what you pay for!

There you have it! One recommendation for a lugged builder, two recs for a lugless builder, and 1 rec for a TIG builder. Of course, should you want titanium of aluminum, then the list is longer. Good to see another fan of the real stuff! STEEL!


----------



## dirtshark (Nov 5, 2001)

*landshark*

landsharks are made well and the paint is to die for but the angles may be a tad different than you request. If I were you I would give Jim Kish @ Kishbike.com a call, he is a killer guy and I own 2 custom TI frames both 56cm both @ 2 1/2 lbs and will last forever! I race crits and like to ride the road bike on fire roads and hard dirt trails and not one issue or complaint!!! Jim also builds with steel and the price is roughly 1/2 that of TI. Well built and built to last to spec every time not most of the time with very tight tolerences!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Ricky2 (Apr 7, 2004)

*Yamaguchi's are the shiznitt!*

I second the opinion on Yamaguchi frames. They are highly revered in track circles and have quite a cult-like following. I've heard that Richard Sachs thinks very highly of Yamaguchi's work. For lugs, Sachs is the man. Fillet-brazing, it's got to be Koichi Yamaguchi. The man even makes his own handlebars for christ sake!


----------



## TBone (Oct 7, 2004)

*How do you go about selecting a builder, and what do you ask?*

I'd like to go custom with a steel frame, but don't know what to ask potential builders. How can you select the "best" one for you? Is getting a fiting in person super important, or can you send in your measurements? If you're looking for a racing bike, should you look for someone who races themselves? I guess most importantly, what do you need to be careful about, and what should you make sure you ask (or know) before you start working with someone? Thanks, TBone


----------



## hokeypokey3 (Jun 23, 2003)

*Custom steel !!!*

A custom bike is just that -"custom". You will have to think about how YOU want the bike to ride on YOUR type of terrain with YOUR body dimensions.

I spent months researching builders, talking to several LBS and experienced riders about proper fit and parts, searching websites and finally soul searching myself concernining MY needs and desires.

A true custom bike will fit you exactly (angles, tubing ) according to your specs. The builders will talk you through it. Ask as many questions as you need to feel comfortable. Call the biulders and ask them about the process they require. Do not worry about all the opinions you will get here. Everyone has their own favorite. Once you start looking at all your options, you will begin to narrow it down. 

All builders have an expertise, find the one you like the best. Some builders use lugs, some fillet brazed, some more intricate paint jobs. You will definetely need to have a professional fitting, but also be honest with yourself about the bikes intended purpose. 
Do not order a sexy crit angled bike, if you are comfort century rider. The builder will put together YOUR perfect bike.

Finally, enjoy this process! You are embarking on an incredible process. You will learn more about bikes, cycling and yourself than you ever imagined. 

All this being said, my personal bias is toward Landshark. I made my decision based upon the great vibe I felt during the research faze. John was very accessible, He is Landshark. He is a true artist, builder and painter. I decided on a fillet brazed steel with custom paint. Absolutely beautiful! The ride is amazing. Far exceeded my expectations. 

Good Luck and have fun! Tim


----------



## 271828 (Jan 22, 2004)

Manhattan said:


> Lugged Builder:
> Richard Sachs
> There is no other lugged builder out there that comes close to the amount of time this man spends on building one bike.


I might be wrong about this, but the statement above might be incorrect. From what I read, Richard Sachs makes about 80 bikes a year, while Sacha White of Vanilla Bicycles builds about 50 bikes (or 40-60 hours each). So I wouldn't be surprised if the amount of time Sacha spends on building one bike comes close or even exceeds Sachs'. (By the way, I am not talking about who has more experience or who makes better bikes.)


----------



## SteveCnj (Oct 6, 2003)

*Framebuilders show*

http://www.handmadebicycleshow.com/

For anyone in the Houston area who is interested in comparing custom bicycles/frames, this weekend would be a good opportunity. I was surprised that I hadn't seen a link or reference to this show posted, although I could have missed it.


----------



## meat tooth paste (Oct 6, 2004)

If you were interested in a different "looking" steel frame, Curtis Inglis welds some really nice curvy steel frames under his Retrotec brand.

His bike was featured in Bicycling sometime in the last 6 months, I forget what issue it was. 

some snapshots of some of this rides:



















Curtis holding a Ti frame during Interbike:


----------



## Toronto_Tri_Gal (Jan 19, 2005)

*Steve Rex*

http://rexcycles.com/

A friend recently had one made by him. Very smooth ride.


----------



## cadence90 (Sep 12, 2004)

*Kish Custom Fabrication*

I would definitely recommend giving Jim Kish a call or email.
He is absolutely one of the best steel/ti builders around.
Loads of experience, great work, great service and super turnaround on custom work.

http://www.kishbike.com/


----------



## Toronto_Tri_Gal (Jan 19, 2005)

I like the curved frame, sweet looking.


----------



## cadence90 (Sep 12, 2004)

Toronto_Tri_Gal said:


> I like the curved frame, sweet looking.


Interesting...Jim Kish has a close relationship with RetroTec, among others (Sycip, etc.) and does all their ti work, etc. You should call him.
Here's a ti cruiser he recently built:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=41933&highlight=kish


----------



## Toronto_Tri_Gal (Jan 19, 2005)

That's just sexy looking, I love my ti bike!!!


----------



## lanpope (Nov 16, 2002)

*Two Words...*

<a href="http://www.ifbikes.com/frames2/steelcrownjewel.shtml">Independent Fabrications</a>

I can not believe IF has not been mentioned yet!

Another builder that does amazing work...

<a href="http://www.wilycycles.com/">Wily Cycles</a>


----------



## wchinchen (Aug 23, 2004)

*Thanks folks*

Sorry for the late reply back. I finally went with a Landshark, and I am loving it. Based on the geometry (I had a 72.5 degree seat tube angle), the ride is smooth and tracks like a dream during cornering. In addition, I went with the beefier tubes for stiffness and durability (I didn't want tubes to be too thin). The paint job was fantastic, it is all black with three large copper dragons around the main tubes. Once I figure out how to post a pic, it will be up.


----------



## joe mudd (Aug 27, 2002)

*... a helpful link...*

...to a previous thread on lugged steel frames - 

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=24395

Ride on,
Joe Mudd


----------



## dt lvr (Oct 18, 2005)

*How about the Brits?*

Hello all. I am looking to replace my 86 Trek Elance with a custom lugged steel tourer. My Trek has severe bottom bracket flex. Gears shift automatically when I push real hard on the pedals or when I pedal over bumps. Not convenient when I'm trying to keep my rhythm and momentum up hill! A great mechanic reduced the automatic shifting, but only partially.

What do you guys think of British custom bikes, like Bob Jackson? Also, what about Mercian, Woodrup, Malc Cowle (is he British?) and others?


----------



## Black Frog (Nov 8, 2005)

Steve Rex of Rex Cycles in Sacramento does very nice work as well. Well worth a look if you are in Nor Cal.


----------

