# ANT+ cycle computer recommendation? / Bontrager Node rant!



## libove (Dec 20, 2012)

So, I got a shiny new Trek Domane 5.2, with the nicely integrated "Duo-trap" sensor (new Trek frames come with a slot for the Bontrager *trap sensors, so they stay adjusted and are streamlined; it's a nice feature). These are ANT+ sensors.

And I also got the Bontrager Node 1.1 cycle computer (why not, all in a package, right?) 
It sucked. If you stop riding for 5 or 10 minutes, it starts to go in to some kind of sleep/pause mode. I say that it starts to, because if you let it really go idle (15/30 minutes, more, I dunno exactly) then it properly sleeps, and you can wake it up with a painfully involved process, unlike my old Cateye which woke up with a simple any-button press. But in that "twilight" period I couldn't figure out how to wake it up without doing a minor type of reset. Very annoying. And in any case, its design made it VERY likely that you would regularly miss tracking several kilometres of distance due to these hard-to-wake-up sleep modes.

Some of the functions requiring long-pressing buttons; the Bontrager Node 1.1 has buttons on top, right side, and bottom. In the middle of a ride, on a 45+km/hr descent, I noticed that the damned thing had gone into that twilight sleep mode during a recent stop, and upon long-pressing the top button, the %%$%#$% thing went flying out of its handlebar mount, lost forever in the brush along the side of the mountain.

Frankly, good riddance. I simply cannot recommend the Bontrager Node cycle computer, for usability problems. (Likely very easily fixed with firmware updates, but we know how likely that is).


So, on to my problem - with what do I replace it? The only ANT+ cycle computers I can find (other than the Bontrager itself) are all GPS or Power meter, $100+, whereas all I want is the usual speed/avg/max, distance/lap/odo, clock, and cadence.

What other ANT+ cycle computers exist, which AREN'T GPS or otherwise massively over-featured (over-priced and under-battery-lifed as a result)?

thanks!
-Jay


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Garmin 500, ~$160 if you shop around. You can turn GPS off it you don't want it. We got one about a year ago to replace a Node2 which had a failed switch, and totally brain damaged UI.


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## libove (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks, but I really don't want to pay to have extra features which I won't use which make the device more complicated, possibly more failure prone, certainly more complex in the user interface, probably with screen real estate lost to the features I won't use, etc, etc, etc.

Aren't there other ANT+ more basic cycle computers, like what I described in my original post?


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## The_Apprentice (Jun 15, 2014)

The Cateye Stealth 50 would be great for you, Though its is GPS orientated (unfortunately is now pretty much compulsory in all Cycle Computers).

It can be ANT+ Enabled, but the ANT+ sensors are sold separately.

For just under $100 that is about as good as it gets.

The Garmin 500 as stated is an exceptional piece of Kit for the Price. I personally use the Cateye Stealth 50 for my rides. I don't want to fork out $200+ for the Garmin edge 800 (which I want).


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

The Garmin 500 UI is menu driven, it's configurable and pretty easy to use IMO.


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## Got Time (Jan 23, 2009)

Well, there's the Joule 1.0 from CycleOps.
But I wouldn't recommend it -- I have too many problems with it too, e.g., it resets the date to 2011-01-01 often, and most of the time it completely resets when I start the first interval.
Not much fun with this stuff, too much functionality that isn't needed but simply makes things more error prone.


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## libove (Dec 20, 2012)

I read the Cateye Stealth 50 manual. There is no option to disable the GPS function, so it will always be wasting battery trying to detect/ recording GPS data.

This is not a solution for me. None of the Garmin/GPS units are an option for me.



The_Apprentice said:


> The Cateye Stealth 50 would be great for you, Though its is GPS orientated (unfortunately is now pretty much compulsory in all Cycle Computers).
> 
> It can be ANT+ Enabled, but the ANT+ sensors are sold separately.
> 
> ...


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## libove (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks. I looked at the Joule user manual. Its display would always be wasting significant space on the Power functions.

You're exactly right, I feel the same way - too much unneeded functionality which makes things more error prone. :-(



Got Time said:


> Well, there's the Joule 1.0 from CycleOps.
> But I wouldn't recommend it -- I have too many problems with it too, e.g., it resets the date to 2011-01-01 often, and most of the time it completely resets when I start the first interval.
> Not much fun with this stuff, too much functionality that isn't needed but simply makes things more error prone.


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## bike2kayak (Jul 13, 2012)

I was in same situation looking for ANT+ options for DuoTrap. The sleek integration of the sensor makes you ignore just getting a simple Cateye and ziplocking sensor to fork (I have a $25 wired Cateye on commuter which has worked flawlessly). So i rode for a year with no computer evaluating options, it sucked and this year just before first century i broke down and got a Garmin 500. It is great. So I think you really have two options if you don't want to get a Node which i did not consider because of reliability reports. 1. forget the DuoTrap trap and just get a decent wireless computer (Cateye), or 2. bite the bullet and get a Garmin. I see your objections to Garmin, and except for price I think they are unfounded: real estate, you can easily setup different pages: I have main page with 7 functions, and then two other pages with just 3 functions each that are as large to read as on Cateye. I don't want GPS: until you can download your rides and get all your route info. Too hard to setup: Garmin Connect is a breeze, connect your 500 to computer it synchs and your ride info and map are just there, also synchs with iphone app automatically.

I'm kicking myself for not getting the Garmin sooner - I kept trying to get a deal and it never got cheaper than $200 except on auction site. Note: my intention was to get the Garmin and then get the duotrap sensor, but i still have not gotten the sensor as have not felt need for cadence - yet.


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## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

Can anyone comment on the fact that Trek hogged out a big hole in the chain stay for the Duo Trap sensor and its effect on the life and stiffness of the chain stay? I thought that I read that the lifetime warranty doesn't apply to the chain stays? If so, is there a connection?


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

bike2kayak said:


> I was in same situation looking for ANT+ options for DuoTrap. The sleek integration of the sensor makes you ignore just getting a simple Cateye and ziplocking sensor to fork (I have a $25 wired Cateye on commuter which has worked flawlessly). So i rode for a year with no computer evaluating options, it sucked and this year just before first century i broke down and got a Garmin 500. It is great. So I think you really have two options if you don't want to get a Node which i did not consider because of reliability reports. 1. forget the DuoTrap trap and just get a decent wireless computer (Cateye), or 2. bite the bullet and get a Garmin. I see your objections to Garmin, and except for price I think they are unfounded: real estate, you can easily setup different pages: I have main page with 7 functions, and then two other pages with just 3 functions each that are as large to read as on Cateye. I don't want GPS: until you can download your rides and get all your route info. Too hard to setup: Garmin Connect is a breeze, connect your 500 to computer it synchs and your ride info and map are just there, also synchs with iphone app automatically.
> 
> I'm kicking myself for not getting the Garmin sooner - I kept trying to get a deal and it never got cheaper than $200 except on auction site. Note: my intention was to get the Garmin and then get the duotrap sensor, but i still have not gotten the sensor as have not felt need for cadence - yet.


It wil sync to an iphone automatically with an app? Did you get the 500 or 510? I'm considering one or the other, albeit I'd prefer to save $100 and get the 500. I want the iPad wireless download feature though and I thought it started on the 510.


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## libove (Dec 20, 2012)

So, it looks like I'm sunk. There are no ANT+ "classic" cycle computers like the CatEye RD-430DW (and the 400 and 300 series before it), only these under-battery-life, over-complicated, hyper-integrated GPS things which are completely not what I want for my riding experience? Stupid stupid stupid commercial marketing!


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## libove (Dec 20, 2012)

Hm! No sooner than...
A further search (had to search Google to find where Google had hidden the Advanced Google Search form, heh) for "ANT+ cycle computer" withOUT the word "GPS" finds the (Taiwan-made) "Echowell ECHO MW10G", which appears to be exactly what I'm looking for. Frankly, it's a touch expensive, compared to ANT+ GPS products, but it has the extremely long battery life and better user interface of classic cycle computers, which is worth paying for.

Does anyone have any experience with the Echowell ECHO MW10G cycle computer?
MW10G | ????????????


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## libove (Dec 20, 2012)

Hmpf. And Giant has its NEOS and NEOS Pro series which are similar, a little less expensive, perhaps a little less configurable than the Echowell ECHO MW10G product.

.. and BBB Cycling's Digiboard BCP-51* and BCP-52* series products.

Well, I've ordered one of the Echowell products, as I like it's having several buttons and a 4-level configurable backlight. I'll report back when I have it and have used it a bit. If someone has experience with any of these products, it would be good to post here, since this theme doesn't seem to show up anywhere else in the forums yet!


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

I understand your wanting simplicity, however you are narrowing your options without any benefit by maintaining that you require the computer not have GPS. The Garmin 500 is easily set up and the GPS can be disabled, although I don't see any benefit to disabling it, I can tell you from experience the battery life on it is exceptional even with the GPS on. I can ride for 2 hours with the GPS on and still have 99% battery capacity. Have ridden for 8 - 10 hours at a time with the backlight on all the time using GPS, power meter, cadence etc and still never dropped below 75% with it. Just plug it in to a USB and it recharges so you don't have to replace batteries.


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## libove (Dec 20, 2012)

Hi Srode, I disagree, on the principle that any device which contains more complicated functionality, even if you'll never use it, always has to have made trade-offs (screen real estate, the physical size of integrated components, user interface) to accommodate for the extra functionality. In the best case, this results in nothing more than over-paying for the lesser desired functionality, but in the vast majority of cases it results in a poorer user experience over the life of the device.

I also do not recall seeing any GPS-integrated ANT+ cycle computer which did not use a recharge-pretty-much-before-every-ride battery, whereas classic cycle computers (including all of the ones which I later found and commented in this thread) use watch batteries requiring a change about once every six months. My life (and I suspect most of our lives) is sufficiently busy without needing yet one more detail to have to attend to, when it can be reasonably avoided.


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

libove said:


> I also do not recall seeing any GPS-integrated ANT+ cycle computer which did not use a recharge-pretty-much-before-every-ride battery, whereas classic cycle computers (including all of the ones which I later found and commented in this thread) use watch batteries requiring a change about once every six months. My life (and I suspect most of our lives) is sufficiently busy without needing yet one more detail to have to attend to, when it can be reasonably avoided.


You were just given an example of a Garmin that would not need charging before every ride.

You (hopefully) got what you wanted. Good luck to you.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

libove said:


> Hi Srode, I disagree, on the principle that any device which contains more complicated functionality, even if you'll never use it, always has to have made trade-offs (screen real estate, the physical size of integrated components, user interface) to accommodate for the extra functionality. In the best case, this results in nothing more than over-paying for the lesser desired functionality, but in the vast majority of cases it results in a poorer user experience over the life of the device.
> 
> I also do not recall seeing any GPS-integrated ANT+ cycle computer which did not use a recharge-pretty-much-before-every-ride battery, whereas classic cycle computers (including all of the ones which I later found and commented in this thread) use watch batteries requiring a change about once every six months. My life (and I suspect most of our lives) is sufficiently busy without needing yet one more detail to have to attend to, when it can be reasonably avoided.


If you are buying on principle...... well then you have fewer choices. Just a few points showing that your limitation on choices are principle based and not functionally based. I think your mind is made up so probably not going to change your opinion, however a few points regardless:

1. I personally would rather recharge than replace batteries - I could probably go longer than 2 weeks between charges on my Garmin 500 riding 10 days or so and maybe 25 hours during that period which is my typical riding. 

2. Agree that when the 500 was new, if you didn't need all the functions you were paying for things you don't need but when it hit the market it was around $300 and now it's about half that if you find one on sale so it's not much that you are overpaying. There aren't many ANT+ computers for any less than that. 

3. Do you buy all of your electronic devices that only have the minimum required features that you desire or are there some that have features you don't use? Heck, my Alarm has a radio I don't use as an example, but it's darned hard to find one that doesn't. Most electronics now days (IMHO) have features many of us will never use. TVs, Stereos, smart phones etc. How many inputs on the back of a TV go unused? 

4. As far as Screen real estate, you can set the Garmin 500 to display anything from 1 to 8 items on your screen or put 1 item on each of multiple screens, or any combination with probably a hundred different choices for what you want to display. Net, you aren't losing any screen to features you don't want to see because you can set the screen to show anything you want.


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## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)

I've had my garmin 500 for over a year. 

I have aver never had to recharge it before every ride. That would be nuts. 

I plug my garmin into my computer once a week or so to download my rides to Strava, and it's never below 95% charged. 

In the five minutes it's plugged in it gets back up to 100%. 

Screen real estate is up to you. If you just want one item or 8. 

I was was like you before I got my garmin. I envisioned these things always dying or being a pain to set up. It's nothing like you think.


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## koshonok_gav (Jun 16, 2014)

Did you try THIS IS ANT - Directory (filter on Cycling + Bike computers)?


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## bike2kayak (Jul 13, 2012)

PBL450 said:


> It wil sync to an iphone automatically with an app? Did you get the 500 or 510? I'm considering one or the other, albeit I'd prefer to save $100 and get the 500. I want the iPad wireless download feature though and I thought it started on the 510.


I got the 500. Just to be clear, it does not wirelessly sync. You have to plug into computer to synch with Garmin Connect which is a web app. Once synced, it will then sync via the web to the iPhone app.


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## libove (Dec 20, 2012)

I looked at the ANT+ Directory, and from it I chose the Echowell MW10G, which I received today.
The MW10G will not pair with the DuoTrap sensors.

I know that the DuoTrap works, because it worked with the now-lost Node cycle computer.
I know that the MW10G works, because (surprise to me, as it was not indicated on the Amazon page for the item, although the price should have given me a clue) it came with three sensors (speed, cadence, heart rate) I am able to pair it with its own speed sensor.

But this is all supposed to be ANT+ ... so any idea why the DuoTrap and MW10G refuse to pair? I've gone through the steps a dozen times, and the MW10G pairing process simply always times out. The one time I tested with the Echowell speed sensor, the MW10G paired within a few seconds.

thanks,


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## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)

I looked up the MW10G stuff on Amazon and other places and none of them state that it is ANT+. It just states its wireless, which does not mean that it is ANT+. Its just wireless and you would have to use their sensors. Weird.

Those Garmins are starting to sound better and better aren't they?


Edit: On Amazon its the Echo MW10G not the Echowell. That may be the difference. Sure seems to be overly complicated.


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## libove (Dec 20, 2012)

Amazon's page listing for the Echowell MW10G is woefully incomplete.
The actual MW10G sensors have the ANT+ symbol on them, and I found the product by following a link to it from the ThisIsANT Directory page THIS IS ANT - Wireless Cycle Computer/MW10G so, yes, the MW10G is ANT+.

Echowell is the company. ECHO is the series for this product. MW10G is the product name/number. I'm just mixing the company and series names Echowell/ECHO indiscriminately. Sorry about that.

I've sent a support request to Echowell, and will see what they say.

What is it about the MW10G that strikes you as being overly complicated?




brianmcg said:


> I looked up the MW10G stuff on Amazon and other places and none of them state that it is ANT+. It just states its wireless, which does not mean that it is ANT+. Its just wireless and you would have to use their sensors. Weird.
> 
> Those Garmins are starting to sound better and better aren't they?
> 
> ...


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## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)

libove said:


> What is it about the MW10G that strikes you as being overly complicated?


It was more of a comment on trying to find a computer that was ANT+ that did not have GPS. I was in the same boat last year and I finally gave in and got my Garmin. Its a simple joy to use.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

I looked at the link you posted to your new computer on ThisisANT and there are 83 compatible products listed for your computer, the Duotrap is not listed - don't know if that's an omission or because it's not compatible. There are 4 other Bontrager sensors that are listed though.


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## bike2kayak (Jul 13, 2012)

libove said:


> Amazon's page listing for the Echowell MW10G is woefully incomplete.
> 
> I've sent a support request to Echowell, and will see what they say.
> 
> What is it about the MW10G that strikes you as being overly complicated?


So you would rather pay $100 for some POC no name computer and waste inordinate amounts of time trying to get it to work, than take the advice of everyone you've solicited and get something that works out of the box from a reputable company. Here are the salient bullet points from Amazon re MW10G:

* No.VALUE
* Origin: China

Good luck with your support request.


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## Aggdaddy (Jun 18, 2010)

+1 on the Garmin 500. I usually charge it after 5 or more 90 minute rides. Dependable. I use it for three bikes, three different cadence sensors. Upload my data to garmin connect and mapmyride.

Who knows, after a few months, you might want to try some of those features you'd never thought you would need.


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## libove (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks for doing that research Srode. That matches up with what I've found, and what I've heard directly from Echowell. (They're amazingly responsive!)
Trek, on the other hand, refuses to state what ANT+ Profile the Duotrap uses (even though it is, literally, broadcast wireless whenever a Duotrap enters pairing mode, sigh).

It seems that ANT+ isn't all it's cracked up to be. I'll need to return this Echowell MW10G (a shame, I like it - it really has the exact feature set that I wanted) - thank you Amazon for your easy return policy; and contact the manufacturers of other ANT+ cycle computers to find one which they know will work with a Duotrap.

Anyone out there using a Duotrap with a NON-Trek/Bontrager ANT+ Cycle Computer?





Srode said:


> I looked at the link you posted to your new computer on ThisisANT and there are 83 compatible products listed for your computer, the Duotrap is not listed - don't know if that's an omission or because it's not compatible. There are 4 other Bontrager sensors that are listed though.


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## libove (Dec 20, 2012)

In fact, the POC appears to be the Duotrap, not the MW10G. Echowell responded INSTANTLY and in detail to my support request. Trek, on the other hand, refuses to even publicly state what ANT+ Profile the Duotrap uses (insofar as I was able to get out of the Trek tech support phone line).

It's not that I don't value the advice which all of you here are offering, it's that it does not match up to my product requirements. With the single exception of the Garmin 500, all of the other GPS-enabled cycle computers require frequent recharging, and even the Garmin 500 has precisely something I don't want - lots of extra circuitry dedicated to GPS functions which I will never use.

The true disappointment here is some combination of what "ANT+ compatible" means, and how Trek chose to implement/interpret the ANT+ "Standard".




bike2kayak said:


> So you would rather pay $100 for some POC no name computer and waste inordinate amounts of time trying to get it to work, than take the advice of everyone you've solicited and get something that works out of the box from a reputable company. Here are the salient bullet points from Amazon re MW10G:
> 
> * No.VALUE
> * Origin: China
> ...


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

dude... just bite the bullet and buy a Garmin.. you're making your decisions based on assumptions, not reality. I have a 510 and it is literally the single best purchase I've ever made for the bike... it is so easy to use. The battery lasts an amazingly long time. I've never used more than 15% of battery life and hat was on a 4 hour ride... yes you do have to charge it, but when you get home from your ride, you hook it up to download your ride and it recharges automatically in the time that it takes to download.. When you're done, unplug it and its ready to go for the next ride.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

What was the Echowell response?


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## libove (Dec 20, 2012)

Echowell responded (within hours) with a list of 83 tested-compatible sensors (including three from Trek/Bontrager, one of which being the Speedtrap), the comment that the lack of an entry in the list does not assure that a sensor would NOT work, but that in the case of the Duotrap the representative believed that in fact the Duotrap was known to be not-compatible. They also commented that a forthcoming product (I suppose the next generation of the MW10G) is expected to support the Duotrap, but that there is not a firmware upgrade path for the current product.


Srode said:


> What was the Echowell response?


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Doesn't look like the Garmin GSC10 speed and cadence sensor is on the list either. I suspect it doesn't support the data format many dual reporting devices use although there is one dual reporting device on the list that is shown it supports, perhaps a different approach to reporting used by it. .


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## libove (Dec 20, 2012)

That's my read, too. It's a shame that Trek tech support doesn't want to state which profile it is, to make this easier.

I just picked up a Decathlon/B'Twin "Count 14+" ANT+ cycle computer which sync'd with the Duotrap speed & cadence sensors instantly. Still testing it out to see if I like the user experience overall (particularly, how it handles idle time during a ride - whether it wakes up and continues the ride easily like my old CatEye computers all did, or imposes substantial user interaction to simply continue the ride like the Bontrager Node 1.1 does).

I'll report back here when I've used it a bit.



Srode said:


> Doesn't look like the Garmin GSC10 speed and cadence sensor is on the list either. I suspect it doesn't support the data format many dual reporting devices use although there is one dual reporting device on the list that is shown it supports, perhaps a different approach to reporting used by it. .


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## dmarsey1 (Oct 5, 2013)

After using Strava on my phone for the last year and doing 2 centuries this summer and getting tired of my phone dying so fast.... I jumped on the 500 and today was my first ride. All I can say is why did I wait so long? Great to see stats while I ride and even better to have a fully charged phone when I got home. The transfer to Strava was a snap, so all is good in computer land. Go for the Garmin 500 and dont look back.


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## libove (Dec 20, 2012)

So I purchased the Decathlon "B'Twin" brand "Count14+" ANT+ cycle computer yesterday. Paired up instantly with the Duotrap. (The Duotrap is listed as a compatible sensor on the ThisIsANT.com website Directory page for the B'Twin Count14+).

Mounting the Count14+ is a bit odd - the instructions are terrible. I _think _I got it right - sliding one of the two identical extension straps through a hole in the integrated much-too-short computer mounting strap to effectively extend it. I don't get the impression that it's as tight a mount as other cycle computers, but I found several reviews from people using this computer for months-to-years who are all very happy with it, so I suppose it will stay on fine.

The mount is clever in a way I'd not seen with other cycle computer mounts - the computer can slide on to the mount either horizontally or vertically, which allows using the mount on the stem as well as the handlebars. As the Count14+ is slightly narrowed and much longer than classic square cycle computers, that actually saves handlebar real estate nicely. (I suppose that this may be more common for the larger e.g. GPS units which have become very popular).

Initial 3km test ride shows that it works fine; will head out for 70+ today.

The Count14+ so far has shown me only one thing that I don't like, but I can live with it - when you start a new ride it does this childish "3 <BEEP!> 2 <BEEP!> 1 <BEEP!> GO! <BEEEEEEEP>" countdown. No way to turn it off.

More later.


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## bres dad (Apr 7, 2014)

Does anyone know if a Cateye V3 is ant+? It wasn't on the this is ant list but neither was the sensor I'm using for my Node 1.1 (fortunately I haven't had any issues with mine).


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## AlexTee (Jul 15, 2014)

Let me add few words regarding the Echowell MW10G. I've ordered one lately, but prior to that I've conducted a small research to understand, how the ANT+ works in fact. It comes out, the ANT+ standard defines several profiles, which may or may not be supported by the manufacturers. These profiles represent the sensors types and their combinations. For example, for speed and cadence there are three profiles: Speed, Cadence and Combo Speed/Cadence. Now, if you lookup the official ANT's directory (THIS IS ANT - Directory), you can do filtering by profiles there. Select 'Display' checkbox for the 'Bike Speed&Cadence' profile, and you will find out, which computers support combo sensors. Unfortunately, MW10G is not listed. Additionally, I've contacted ANT team, and they confirmed, that Echowell DOES NOT support any combo sensors:



> Hello Alexander,
> 
> I contacted Echowell yesterday and they confirmed that the MW10G computer does NOT support the combined speed & cadence sensor.
> 
> ...


I've also inquired if by chance the Garmin's combo sensor will work, and the response was:



> The single sensors send information in a different manner than the combo one, so head units that are only programmed with the single profiles can not work with a combined sensor.
> 
> Echowell has confirmed that the MW10G does not support combined sensors, so you will not be able to get the Garmin combo to work with it.
> 
> ...


To conclude, the Duotrap combo sensor will not work with MW10G due to known limitation.

Personally, I've decided to go for the MW10G since the price on eBay was just 60USD for a complete kit with all three sensors and the head unit. IMO, this is great investment for a first ANT+ computer.

In near future, I plan to upgrade the sensors to the Garmin's newest magnetless sensors (A look at Garmin?s new ANT+ Speed & Cadence magnet-less sensors | DC Rainmaker). They are separate sensors, thus the MW10G is supposed to work with them!


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## libove (Dec 20, 2012)

AlexTee, you're exactly right, and a great summary. That the same as what I found both through research and empirically. (I could have saved myself the empirical tests by doing the research better first, but I relied on the "most head units support all three profiles". Mistake. Oh well).


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## libove (Dec 20, 2012)

*update on Count 14+ experience*

Update on my experience so far with the B'Twin (Decathlon) "Count 14+".
This past weekend I went out for a ride, and I noticed right away that although the cadence count was accurate, the speed count was registering at about 5% (when it registered at all). Since it's a single combined sensor, this shouldn't be a problem with battery nor with transmission nor sync. (I re-sync'd just to be sure; no effect). It also does not appear to have been related to electrical interference, as this continued for 70km throughout terrain where most of the time I was nowhere near any kind of wires, transmitters, signals, etc. Also, I verified that nobody else was using an ANT/ANT+ device on the ride (and a lot of the time I was well out of range of other cyclists anyway).

I also noticed that the Count 14+ had lost its wheel size setting. It had not reset to defaults, because it had not lost sync nor certain other settings, but something had clearly gone wrong.

When I got home, I sync'd up a second Bontrage Node 1.1 (which Trek was _very _kind to send me as a replacement for the one which committed suicide on the hill a couple of months ago), and I ran the Count 14+ and the Node 1.1 side by side. Both registered correctly.

So I need to continue testing - it seems that the way ANT+ syncs, you can actually have two computers sync'd to the same sensors; the sensors simply transmit, and the computers simply receive; I'll take both computers on the next ride and see if the Count 14+ continues to glitch, or if it was a one-time thing. Disappointing.



libove said:


> So I purchased the Decathlon "B'Twin" brand "Count14+" ANT+ cycle computer yesterday. Paired up instantly with the Duotrap. (The Duotrap is listed as a compatible sensor on the ThisIsANT.com website Directory page for the B'Twin Count14+).
> 
> Mounting the Count14+ is a bit odd - the instructions are terrible. I _think _I got it right - sliding one of the two identical extension straps through a hole in the integrated much-too-short computer mounting strap to effectively extend it. I don't get the impression that it's as tight a mount as other cycle computers, but I found several reviews from people using this computer for months-to-years who are all very happy with it, so I suppose it will stay on fine.
> 
> ...



</beeeeeeep></beep!></beep!></beep!>


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## AlexTee (Jul 15, 2014)

What's funny is that Echowell has indeed a combo sensor (ACC-GTR20 | ????????????), but which is not supported by their own computer. Ridiculous!



libove said:


> AlexTee, you're exactly right, and a great summary. That the same as what I found both through research and empirically. (I could have saved myself the empirical tests by doing the research better first, but I relied on the "most head units support all three profiles". Mistake. Oh well).


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## libove (Dec 20, 2012)

So, for any who are interested, here's what I've found:
1. Trek directly replace my lost Node 1.1 as a matter of good will. They also acknowledged that there was a firmware problem which caused the Node 1.1 to go in to that hard-to-wake-up sleep mode. It has been fixed.
2. The Decathlon Count 14+ that I purchased proves to be challenging to get to talk to a computer - the USB-to-serial drivers included have compatibility problems if you have any other USB-to-serial drivers installed (are you are likely to if you have any of a wide variety of mobile phones).
3. My DuoTrap sensor has failed (cadence still works fine; speed only works intermittently, and not at all if the cadence sensor is active...). It is out for replacement under warranty. (And before anyone asks, no, I'm not in the habit of abusing my bike nor my cycle computer/sensor; it's either quite bad luck, or lower quality than one would hope for from Trek/Bontrager).


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## scooterman (Apr 15, 2006)

Trek now has the Trip 300 super duper basic computer with ANT+ $59.99


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## PbOkole (Feb 10, 2004)

scooterman said:


> Trek now has the Trip 300 super duper basic computer with ANT+ $59.99


I just replaced my Node 2 with a Trip 300. I was having all of the usual Node problems described above and decided to give the 300 a try. I have been using it for almost a week and it is a real joy to use compared to the Node. With the Node, I was having to pair it almost every ride. i have yet to have any pairing issues with the 300. The Trip 300 is perfect for my needs as I never used a lot of the functions on the Node anyway. Since I have the duo trap setup on my Domane, I was looking to stay with ANT+ and so far the Trip 300 looks like a winner.

By the way, that $59.99 price does not include any ANT+ sensor. You will need to buy a duo trap, speedtrap, speed/cadence sensor separately.


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## Social Climber (Jan 16, 2013)

I have the duotrap and a Node 2(.0) and the combination seems to work fine for me. I do seem occasionally to need to re-pair but it doesn't happen that often. One of these days I am going to get a Garmin but it would likely be an 810 or 1000 because I want to able to download rides from ridewithgps and get turn by turn directions.


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## libove (Dec 20, 2012)

Trek telephone support admitted to me that they were aware of a firmware problem with certain Node computers, causing the pairing issues. Although I've only used my replacement Node 1.1 a couple of times, so far it has shown no pairing issues, where the original Node 1.1 I'd had would require re-pairing several times per ride.

So anyone who still has a Node and who suffers the pairing issues, try calling Trek tech support (+1 (920) 478-4678) and they'll likely do a warranty replacement for you.


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## heffdiddy (May 16, 2014)

libove said:


> Trek telephone support admitted to me that they were aware of a firmware problem with certain Node computers, causing the pairing issues. Although I've only used my replacement Node 1.1 a couple of times, so far it has shown no pairing issues, where the original Node 1.1 I'd had would require re-pairing several times per ride.
> 
> So anyone who still has a Node and who suffers the pairing issues, try calling Trek tech support (+1 (920) 478-4678) and they'll likely do a warranty replacement for you.


People are so hard-headed. Did you call them with a rotary phone? Seems like any other phone would have too many features that you don't want.


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## RL7836 (Jun 17, 2014)

Social Climber said:


> One of these days I am going to get a Garmin but it would likely be an 810 or 1000 because I want to able to download rides from ridewithgps and get turn by turn directions.


Garmin Edge 500 does turn by turn w/ RWGPS tcx files & is much smaller (less weight) than the others. Since it's been out longer, there tends to be fewer issues with it. Garmin has a well-earned reputation for using buyers as beta testers ...


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