# Riding in the drops! Have a hard time staying there.



## Longfrog (Nov 9, 2005)

Have been a lurker for quite some time. Just bought a C'dale R700. Took a long time to make this decision and love it. I'm new to the road and have a difficult time staying in the drop position. Upper quads and back seem to fatigue quicker. Im 6'4 205 lbs down from 235. so there is still a bit of beer belly there. Question is do I just endure until muscles are used to this position. Is there anything I can do proactively to remedy? Stretches etc...?? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## geraldatwork (Jul 15, 2005)

The drops are generally not as comfortable as riding on the brake hoods. The main advantage is being in a more areodymanic position. The faster you travel the more important it is. Generally if you look around most riders spend most of their time on the hoods and only drop down when they really want to maintain a faster speed.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Fit and flex*

Your problem could be how the bike fits you (higher bars would allow you to use the drops more easily) or your personal flexibility. With time, most people find that they become more comfortable in a lower, more stretched out position. So, you can raise your bars or work on stretching. Your call. While many will tell you that "people rarely ride in the drops" that's individual too. I ride in the drops nearly all of the time.


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## MikeBiker (Mar 9, 2003)

I am seldom in the drops. Usually only on long downhills and into stiff headwinds.


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## whit417 (Jul 5, 2005)

I almost always ride on the hoods. Rarely in the drops. To me, the hoods are more comfortable and I feel that I have better control of the bike. As stated above riding in the drops is more aerodynamic, and maybe faster, but how much? Unless you are going to race, the minimal amount of speed gain can't be worth the discomfort. Put your hands where it is most comfortable to you.


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## wilier (Mar 16, 2002)

*drops for sprints and down-hills*

Are the only 2 times I'm there. I feel like Iget a bit more stability out of my bike. 

Even if I'm pulling a group into a headwind, I usually will put my hands on the tops, and bend my elbows to lower my upper body. I find that actually gets me more aerodynamic with my elbows in. Then again, you get into a stretched out position for your lower back, so maybe that doesn't help.

You asked about stretches. I'd just sit and do some toe touches (actually a few long touches) and that wil lstretch your hams and lower back. If you have someone to help, I've found that someone lightly pushing on my upper back while doing this is good.


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## geraldatwork (Jul 15, 2005)

whit417 said:


> I almost always ride on the hoods. Rarely in the drops. To me, the hoods are more comfortable and I feel that I have better control of the bike. As stated above riding in the drops is more aerodynamic, and maybe faster, but how much? Unless you are going to race, the minimal amount of speed gain can't be worth the discomfort. Put your hands where it is most comfortable to you.


Although I spend about 75% of my time on the hoods I can go noticeably faster when I am on the drops. And again the faster you are going the bigger the difference. So at 13-14 mph you might not notice much of a difference but over 20 you definitely will. When I started my regular route I was never on the drops but one time I tried going down there at higher speeds which accounted for maybe 25% of that ride. That ride my speed was 1 mph faster. I only average 16mph for my trips. I think anyone who averages over 20 will notice a big difference. I might only average 16 but for a good part of the trip I might be going over 20 on some of the flats, more down hill..


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## Koop (Oct 23, 2005)

Longfrog said:


> Question is do I just endure until muscles are used to this position. Is there anything I can do proactively to remedy? Stretches etc...?? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Most of the time I'm on the hoods unless I"m sprinting to make a stoplight, going downhill at speed or driving into a stiff wind. I've found that core strength (abs) make the difference here. A strong abdominal helps the lower back and will make hard pulls in the drops less painfull.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Yes....all of the above.

Most people don't ride much in the drops because.......they don't have their bike set up to ride in the drops. Too much saddle to bar drop makes it harder to ride in the drops.

I have about 4 CM of drop and spend about 50% of my riding time in the drops. I work hard to make sure that I "Roll my hips forward" & bend from the hips in all riding, but when riding in the drops, I can really feel the recruitment of my hamstrings and buttocks into the pedal strokes.

I also work on my core strength which helps me maintain this position.

If you want to ride longer in the drops, stretch more, set your bike up a little differently and .....ride more in the drops. Start with a certain amount of time say 2 minutes in the drops with 8 minutes on the hoods.Keep alternating. do this for awile and then gradually lengthen your time in the drops.

I find that the drops are one of the more comfortable positions on the bike.

Len


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## Erotomaniac (Sep 17, 2005)

I ride in the drops about 60% of the time. Ill use the hoods when im going uphill, short of breath, or when I want to switch positions for a few minutes. I suspect that my bike is set up so its easier to ride in the drops, but speaking for myself I had a pretty sore back and neck on rides over 3 hours a month after buying the bike. My body got used to it and I became a bit more flexible and now I dont feel any discomfort at all.


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## KonaMan (Sep 22, 2004)

*Fexibility is the main reason*



Longfrog said:


> Have been a lurker for quite some time. Just bought a C'dale R700. Took a long time to make this decision and love it. I'm new to the road and have a difficult time staying in the drop position. Upper quads and back seem to fatigue quicker. Im 6'4 205 lbs down from 235. so there is still a bit of beer belly there. Question is do I just endure until muscles are used to this position. Is there anything I can do proactively to remedy? Stretches etc...?? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


As you get into better riding shape and increase your flexibility through stretching, you'll find it easier to get into the drops. Take a velo clinic if you have one in your area, you'll be forced to spend more time in the drops doing sprint drills.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Len's got it right on.

I have a 5cm saddle-to-stem drop and anatomic bars; spend a lot of time in the drops. I see how ridiculously many people's rides are set up, it makes me grimace just LOOKING at 'em.

I've heard it said that beer bellies severely impair that kind of flexibility, or at least makes it more uncomfortable, though I can't speak from experience.


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## Dave_Stohler (Jan 22, 2004)

Since you've just bought the bike, I'm going to assume that the shop set it up with the bars 6" below the saddle, and you've left it that way. Unless you are racing with the bike, having bars that low is ridiculous, yet a lot of shops set bikes up that way unless told to do otherwise.

My road bike is set up with the bars only a couple inches lower than the saddle, and I spend nearly half my time in the drops. My touring bike has bars level with the saddle, and I spend maybe 2/3 of the time in the drops (although this bike has a radonneur 'noodle bar').


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## bill (Feb 5, 2004)

at least part of the reason why the drops feel less comfortable, and particularly the reason why the drops feel as if they offer less control, is that you can get in the habit of never riding in the drops, and particularly not turning in the drops very often. If you never ride with your hands in the drops, it's going to feel awkward. I've noticed that, when turning on a descent, I was leaning too heavily on the drops, both of them, and turning was awkward as a result. I found that by concentrating just a little harder on unweighting that outside hand, all of the control that I feel I have on the levers is there in the drops.


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## Cyjal (Sep 9, 2004)

*Flexibility and setup...*

Riding in the drops is certainly something that you get used to more than something you're going to do constantly right off.
I personally ride with my bars as high as they'll go at the start of the season and keep dropping them down as I get more comfortable and flexible from riding. (2" or so of drop to start with... progressing by 5mm per spacer.)


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Depends on the height of your bars*

I ride with my bars set lower because I ride on the hoods mostly and I want to stay somewhat aero without having to keep my arms in a more extended position that the drops require. I would say my position on top of the bars is just as aero as others are on the drops as a result. I keep my arms and hands in front of my body to simulate a "time trial" position that I copied from watching Floyd Landis doing pulls during his Postal days. I go to the drops during a sprint.


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## dogmeat (Sep 26, 2005)

*I'm with Len, Kona and Dave...*

I am fortunate to have a really pro level shop nearby. Fittings cost $175, and take about 2 hours... they took it off the top when I bought my bike.

The guy I work with checked my goals, my flexibility, and all the measurements were done on a trainer... set up, change... ask questions, ride a bit, retry. Repeat. My main goal is to do nice training rides of about 55 miles at a fast pace, and style on century rides.The bike guy says "My fit goal for you is to be able to HAMMER from the drops for as long as you want."

Two weeks ago we did a 51 mile out and back, straight in to winds gusting from 25 to 50 mph. Yeah, and it rained and the hail was just a special bonus. I was almost stopped on the flats twice by gusts of wind. I spent 3 HOURS pulling, down in the drops the WHOLE TIME. No, I wasn't racing- just out for fun.

FUN??? Yeah, at the turn-around the sun came out, and we spun back with that same tailwind... oh, just doodling in the mid 30 mph range on the flats. "You be George, I'll be Lance" "Hey, you pulled all the way up wind, that makes you George!" "Dang it, I want to be Lance! If I can't be Lance, I want to be Jan Ulrich." "You don't even speak German! You can't be Jan!" "Well, I can be Greg-- cause I'm older than you!" "Well, we are going 39 mph on this long flat section, I guess you can be Greg."

With a 50 mph tailwind, I can do what the Pros can do in still air! If it wasn't for a serious fitting session and swapping a lot of parts out, I never would have made it to the turnaround. 

Dogmeat

ps- thanks, Colin!


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## Longfrog (Nov 9, 2005)

Thanks a bunch to all. Great suggestions. I am thinking that my saddle is on the high side. My stem looks like it already has the maximum spacers so dont think I could raise another space. Not sure though. I will take it back to the shop and ask their advice. Not sure if they can help. As one commented the LBS had the saddle fairly high when I bought it. So might need to do some tweakin' In the interim I will work that core and try to get rid of the extra 20 lbs around the middle. I have already noticed that the 20 lbs previously lost have helped tremendously in regards to flexibility.

Thanks again for the help!


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## geraldatwork (Jul 15, 2005)

Longfrog said:


> Thanks a bunch to all. Great suggestions. I am thinking that my saddle is on the high side. My stem looks like it already has the maximum spacers so dont think I could raise another space. Not sure though. I will take it back to the shop and ask their advice. Not sure if they can help. As one commented the LBS had the saddle fairly high when I bought it. So might need to do some tweakin' In the interim I will work that core and try to get rid of the extra 20 lbs around the middle. I have already noticed that the 20 lbs previously lost have helped tremendously in regards to flexibility.
> 
> Thanks again for the help!


I found this to be an interesting thread. While I'm not overly uncomfortable in the drops I now feel better knowing it is normal and something if I work on will feel more comfortable over time. Thanks for posting the question.


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## Cheetah007 (Nov 30, 2005)

*In the drops.....*



Longfrog said:


> Have been a lurker for quite some time. Just bought a C'dale R700. Took a long time to make this decision and love it. I'm new to the road and have a difficult time staying in the drop position. Upper quads and back seem to fatigue quicker. Im 6'4 205 lbs down from 235. so there is still a bit of beer belly there. Question is do I just endure until muscles are used to this position. Is there anything I can do proactively to remedy? Stretches etc...?? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


I do not know if this will help but when I started riding, I could not stay down for more than
a couple of minutes without losing my breath.....after losing over 60 pounds and doing countless sit ups.......when it is hammer time....that's when I go to the drops....or on a downhill....but even then....I like the aero technique better...on the downhills.
I agree with most of the replies....everything with the bike is based on you and where you
are riding....it's hard to "make" the bike do what "you" want to do.....do learn your strengths
and weaknesses and go from there! 
 Cheetah007


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## fleck (Mar 25, 2005)

i can't beleive no one has said this already.

check the angle between your stem and your fork. If it is acute, flip the stem over.
a nice quick fix to buy you a little extra height for no dough.

fit and flex are the big factors.

have your shop or a knowlegable friend look at the fit.

for flex. spend a little time in the drops then back to the hoods, slowly increase that time you spend down there.

your stomach and back muscles are quite improtant for this...


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## ThePorge (Nov 11, 2005)

*Drops*

Seems like every spring I have found 10 extra pounds on my gut. When I hit the road with that extra luggage it gives me fits to ride very far in the drops. I just can't breath with my legs slapp'n da giggly. So I stay on my hoods and log a bunch O' Base miles. As I get my base miles and the weight comes down riding in the drops gets easier and easier until I can hammer in any position I want and be completely comfortable. I suspect as you loose more weight you will find the same and I seem to remember you saying as much in a reply you posted to this thread. That said, don't be afraid to adjust you bike set up. Just do it in 1/8 to 1/4 inch increments. Do a ride and if you don't like it put it back...heck you should have the tools you need to fix it in the middle of the ride if you think it is going to be a problem.

-G


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## cthomas (Oct 26, 2003)

*Get a bike fitting*

I'm surprised there is only one other post with this advice. I too needed to drop a few pounds from the middle (which definitely helped), but had a professional fitting done and that made all the difference. I had been riding for years, and THOUGHT I knew what fit me, but $100 and one hours time made a HUGE difference. 

I can now ride drops, hoods, tops with comfort. Well worth the $100. 

BTW, my shop used the Serotta fit cycle. You take your saddle and pedals and they put you on an adjustable cycle and "tweak" your position. Once adjusted, they transfer the settings to your current ride (which may cost you a few bucks to swap stems, etc.). You also walk out with a diagram of the proper dimensions to fit you on the bike. I was able to then adjust my other bikes the same. I also had a C'dale, and found I was riding with too long a stem for the relatively long top tube of a C'dale. Shorter stem with the right saddle and bar height and it was WAY more comfortable.

I was so comfortable I had them custom order a Seven for me and have never looked back.


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## ThePorge (Nov 11, 2005)

*Fred?*

The white tee-shirt ;-)



cthomas said:


> What makes you think my name is Fred...?


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## tuscanybill (Nov 20, 2005)

All great advice, dito on the sugestions on bike fit, one thing not mentioned (hope I diden't miss it) was bar shape. Not all bars are bent the same and many can make huge differances in riding possition, up or down and reach as well. We have many differant angle stems avil and as mentioned don't rule out the "flip". As you procced take your time and ride out your changes (several rides/good amount of miles, maybe 200 if you are racking them up) it's easy to get confused. Enjoy your new bike congrats!! -- Bill


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## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

.....


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

*no one mentioned this..*



Longfrog said:


> Thanks a bunch to all. Great suggestions. I am thinking that my saddle is on the high side. My stem looks like it already has the maximum spacers so dont think I could raise another space. Not sure though. I will take it back to the shop and ask their advice. Not sure if they can help. As one commented the LBS had the saddle fairly high when I bought it. So might need to do some tweakin' In the interim I will work that core and try to get rid of the extra 20 lbs around the middle. I have already noticed that the 20 lbs previously lost have helped tremendously in regards to flexibility.
> 
> Thanks again for the help!


First, congrads on gettting that first 20 lbs off. It'll get easier to lose weight now, for a while, until you get down to a reasonable weight. 20lbs Less lard to drag around..Good job.
Different bars have different amounts of "drop Like, 'standard' bars vary from 140mm up (down?) to 170mm. Big Difference! Long reach down or short reach down.. See what you have on your set-up and keep that in mind..You may, after you become more experienced, decide to try more or less drop in your bars. I recently changed to a shallower drop after many many years of being a mainly "brake hood" racer, and now I've begun to find comfort for much longer, on the drops. Also, seat angle seems to make a big comfort difference. Tweek your "fit", if you think it won't distract you from the main thing, which is to ride a lot, no matter where you rest your hands.
Don Hanson


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*its been my understanding...*

with hands in the drops and feet at the 3:00/9:00 (horizontal cranks) position, your elbows and knees should be about 3-4 inches apart, with forearm and thigh basically horizontal also...with some room for minor adjustments...if your arms or thighs are at angles, the step is too low or seat too high...adjust accordingly for comfort...
stretch, ride in the drops for increasing increments...it'll get better...
I couldn' t do it for long when I started either but after a few seasons of racing, things are good in the drop department...

keep practicing, keep riding, lose some of that guy to aid breathing and flexibility, and keep having fun.


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## Cheetah007 (Nov 30, 2005)

bahueh said:


> with hands in the drops and feet at the 3:00/9:00 (horizontal cranks) position, your elbows and knees should be about 3-4 inches apart, with forearm and thigh basically horizontal also...with some room for minor adjustments...if your arms or thighs are at angles, the step is too low or seat too high...adjust accordingly for comfort...
> stretch, ride in the drops for increasing increments...it'll get better...
> I couldn' t do it for long when I started either but after a few seasons of racing, things are good in the drop department...
> 
> keep practicing, keep riding, lose some of that guy to aid breathing and flexibility, and keep having fun.


What does it mean if your elbows and knees are touching...in the drops.
Thanks


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*well...*



Cheetah007 said:


> What does it mean if your elbows and knees are touching...in the drops.
> Thanks



do you think its an effective setup if your knees are bashing into your elbows? 
that sounds to me as though it would be...painful, distracting, and not conducive to 
pedaling more than a stroke or two...
that's all...


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## Blue Sugar (Jun 14, 2005)

The drops aren't necessarily the more efficient position. While more aerodynamic, it also scrunches up your lungs and diaphragm and can interfere with breathing. I prefer to leave my hands on the hoods and try to mke my back as low and flat as possible. You want your back to be flat, not hunched. Even most pros spend most of their time on the hoods. I heve a video of the 2002 Paris-Roubaix- Museeuw was on a solo breakaway that led to victory and he had his hands on the hoods the whole time. Greg LeMond spent a lot of time in the drops but he had the ideal physique for it.

As for stretches, my favorite, invented by me, is to sit straight-legged on the floor, knees locked, hands clutching the back of your neck and elbows straight out. Bend over and try to touch your elbows to your knees. At first you won't get anywhere close, but after a month or two of trying you'll be able to do it. It's OK at first to cheat by bending your knees a little. It stretches your lower back, glutes, hamstrings and calves. For an added stretch pull your toes back. Doing this stretch put an end to my back pain.


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*good idea..*



Blue Sugar said:


> The drops aren't necessarily the more efficient position. While more aerodynamic, it also scrunches up your lungs and diaphragm and can interfere with breathing. I prefer to leave my hands on the hoods and try to mke my back as low and flat as possible. You want your back to be flat, not hunched. Even most pros spend most of their time on the hoods. I heve a video of the 2002 Paris-Roubaix- Museeuw was on a solo breakaway that led to victory and he had his hands on the hoods the whole time. Greg LeMond spent a lot of time in the drops but he had the ideal physique for it.
> 
> As for stretches, my favorite, invented by me, is to sit straight-legged on the floor, knees locked, hands clutching the back of your neck and elbows straight out. Bend over and try to touch your elbows to your knees. At first you won't get anywhere close, but after a month or two of trying you'll be able to do it. It's OK at first to cheat by bending your knees a little. It stretches your lower back, glutes, hamstrings and calves. For an added stretch pull your toes back. Doing this stretch put an end to my back pain.



that's a descent idea....I've been plagued by lower back pain for some 12 years on occasion...always looking for new stretches...


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## stevee (Feb 4, 2005)

I have this belief not share by most others that the human body will try to adapt itself to what is demanded of it. I have forced myself to ride in the drops thinking that this will help reduce the spare tire around the middle. The spare tire is gone and I am much more comfortable in the drops now. I may be wrong about spot reduction of fat, but maybe an ancillary benefit of my foolish belief is an increase of comfort riding in the drops. I still feel that I breathe easier and better on the hoods, and use the drops mainly for wind and aero at high speed. I am comfortable in the drops and also use them for the change of position.


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