# What is this Merckx Worth?



## JetSpeed (Nov 18, 2002)

This is what the owner has posted about the bike--------------->


53 cm columbus steel frame, vintage crimpy groupo with tube down shifters, new tires, brooks saddle 
$1000.00 or best offer. This is a 10th anniversary limited edition 1980-1990 bb# is 8281b, Handmade in Beligium, Columbus steel, seat to crank 21", Bb to headset 24", Seatpost to headset 21.5".


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*offer him*

$900 and run. If he balks give him the $1000
the gruppo is Campy C record. (highly collectible) The brakes appear to be Monoplaners, or are they Deltas?


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

atpjunkie said:


> $900 and run. If he balks give him the $1000
> the gruppo is Campy C record. (highly collectible) The brakes appear to be Monoplaners, or are they Deltas?


Group in the pics looks like a mix of Chorus and Athena. No C Record in sight.

If the bike fits you and looks to be in good shape it's not a bad deal.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*That Rear Der.*



bikerjulio said:


> Group in the pics looks like a mix of Chorus and Athena. No C Record in sight.
> 
> If the bike fits you and looks to be in good shape it's not a bad deal.


looked C Record, but I'm getting small pics. Saw the big aero cover on the top pulley

maybe you're getting bigger pix, thx for the correction.
brakes (monoplaners) were Chorus level for sure, but I like them better than the Deltas


----------



## JetSpeed (Nov 18, 2002)

IF it were Deltas, I'd be ALL over it. I offered him $550, he said $750,
however it's sight-un-seen at this point. I e-mailed him this a.m., to see if
he still had it ---- no repsonse yet . . .


----------



## gomango (Aug 30, 2006)

JetSpeed said:


> IF it were Deltas, I'd be ALL over it. I offered him $550, he said $750,
> however it's sight-un-seen at this point. I e-mailed him this a.m., to see if
> he still had it ---- no repsonse yet . . .



I sold a NOS Century frameset last summer for these prices.

I wouldn't sell this bike for $550. $750 is a "fire sale" price" as well.

$1,000 is fair and reasonable.

If he'll sell the bike at $750, drive to pick it up pronto.


----------



## JetSpeed (Nov 18, 2002)

O.K. I bought the above posted Merckx for $550! A bit rougher that I expected,
but correct. Brooks saddle, brand new Connie GP 4000's, Campag rims, Campag seatpost.

Needs paint in my" Type A" mind. Pics to follow tomorrow.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Call Allan Wanta*



JetSpeed said:


> O.K. I bought the above posted Merckx for $550! A bit rougher that I expected,
> but correct. Brooks saddle, brand new Connie GP 4000's, Campag rims, Campag seatpost.
> 
> Needs paint in my" Type A" mind. Pics to follow tomorrow.


send the bike out now. Pick up in April

check the Merckx (2nd frame down) on the refinish page
I gave him that Photo to do that paint
http://wantaframes.com/


----------



## JetSpeed (Nov 18, 2002)

I was wondering IF the old Merckx factory would do the paint??
I know nothing about re-sprays at all. 
Was it you who hooked BigRider on Wanta's??


----------



## JetSpeed (Nov 18, 2002)

Dusty . . .


----------



## JetSpeed (Nov 18, 2002)

4 more . .


----------



## JetSpeed (Nov 18, 2002)

I'm going to do a complete restoration. The only thing that will stay is the entire Campy groupo minus the 
front and rear brakes (going to do deltas!), the seatpost, and the bar. It's going to go back to it's exact period correct look.


----------



## gomango (Aug 30, 2006)

JetSpeed said:


> O.K. I bought the above posted Merckx for $550! A bit rougher that I expected,
> but correct. Brooks saddle, brand new Connie GP 4000's, Campag rims, Campag seatpost.
> 
> Needs paint in my" Type A" mind. Pics to follow tomorrow.




Nice pick up, especially at that price.

I'd clean, lube, and ride.


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

With deltas make sure you use the late model 5 pivot version. and the matching levers with the hole in front. these work pretty well unlike the early version.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*I'd skip the deltas*

1= expensive
2= limited tire size
3=overly complicated, tough to work on to dial in
4= don't work all that awesome

the monoplaner is one of the sexiest brakes ever designed, just go with it


----------



## JetSpeed (Nov 18, 2002)

atpjunkie said:


> 1= expensive
> 2= limited tire size
> 3=overly complicated, tough to work on to dial in
> 4= don't work all that awesome
> ...


REALLY??? I always wanted Deltas!! I was in the process of putting together an Italian 
fixie with Deltas when this popped-up. I know Deltas limitations, but there are SO sexy.


----------



## JetSpeed (Nov 18, 2002)

bikerjulio said:


> With deltas make sure you use the late model 5 pivot version. and the matching levers with the hole in front. these work pretty well unlike the early version.


With JUST Delta brakes can I use the current levers that are on the bike now or
will I need C-Record levers as well??


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

I believe the matching levers had a return spring to augment the return of the Deltas. MIne are operated by regular Modolo Cronus levers with no spring and I had to pay a lot of attention to cable bends and friction to get them to return properly. Also, I thought that the hole in the late model Record lever gave access to a reach adjustment.

So, yes they can work with regular levers, but the correct ones are better.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*a good set of deltas*



JetSpeed said:


> REALLY??? I always wanted Deltas!! I was in the process of putting together an Italian
> fixie with Deltas when this popped-up. I know Deltas limitations, but there are SO sexy.


and levers going to run you $500 or so most likely. Hell that's more than you paid for the bike. Use some of that money for the repaint. Yes Merckx will repaint but that is time and $$$.

Funny, no, my relationship with Wanta was independent of Bigriders. He has built BR a bike, he has painted 2 for me.

here's an entire gruppo $1000

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-CAMPAGN...ltDomain_0&hash=item4aa66c11da#ht_8257wt_1141

brakes start around $300

http://sporting-goods.shop.ebay.com...+Delta&_catref=1&_fln=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282


----------



## JetSpeed (Nov 18, 2002)

I'm going to contact Merckx just to see $$. I'm also going to contact/visit Wanta.
Maybe I'll keep the groupo as it is . . . . .?? I want/ kinda need new wheels too. 
I was thinking dark grey Mavic OP's with the two campag hubs off of this bike.


----------



## innergel (Jun 14, 2002)

ffffff.

get some DuraAce brakes. They are kickass. No one will know. 


Srsly, that style of paint is my favorite. Virtually every Merckx I've seen painted like that, regardless of colors, looks fantastic. A full resto would be a fun project.


----------



## em3 (Dec 25, 2005)

Nice find, however, are you sure that fork is not damaged? Some of the pics make it appear as if the fork blades are bent toward the frame and the tire looks really close to the downtube....or perhaps its simply my imagination. By the way, it appears that you have a full Athena gruppo. The monoplaner brakes were available in both the Chorus and Athena gruppos...you have the Athena version.

By the way, I just mailed Allan Wanta the exact same Merckx Anniversary frame for a Molteni restoration....will post pics in a a couple months when it returns. Here is his flickr page:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/page2/

EM3


----------



## zmudshark (Jan 28, 2007)

+1 on Wanta, +1 on checking that fork out. I looked for evidence of a crash on the down tube and top tube, didn't see any, but the fork looks suspect, at least in the pictures.

The group on there appears to be Chorus. I would clean it and go with the Chorus. Deltas can be a PITA, and don't stop as well, IME.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*the mudshark*



zmudshark said:


> +1 on Wanta, +1 on checking that fork out. I looked for evidence of a crash on the down tube and top tube, didn't see any, but the fork looks suspect, at least in the pictures.
> 
> The group on there appears to be Chorus. I would clean it and go with the Chorus. Deltas can be a PITA, and don't stop as well, IME.


shares much wisdom
especially on the brakes
yes look into the fork, I was thinking it an optical illusion


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Since I'm stuck in the house with nothing better to do, I looked up the old catalog scans to try & settle the Chorus vs Athena thing.

Differences appear minor in the 1990 scans, but what I can see are:

Chorus had 7mm self extracting crankbolt - Athena not.
Chorus had alloy knurled outer ring on rear shifter, Athena had black.
The QR ends are different.

Looks like the crankbolts have been replaced on OP's bike with modern ones.

However the other two clues point to this being a Chorus group.

And as I said - if you want to try Delta's - go for it. The late ones work fine.


----------



## em3 (Dec 25, 2005)

Definitely ATHENA, not CHORUS...go to Velobase.com and you can search the scans and find the subtle differences. For example, the Athena monoplaner calipers had arms that were less beefy near the center bolt, and also the sculpting near the brake shoe mounts was straight cross versus the angled edge of the Chorus calipers. Also, early chorus cranks had the obvious offset arms and beefy spider, and in latter gruppos the highly sculpted spider shared by C-record and CDA gruppos. Lastly, the rear der finish is a dead giveaway that this is not a Chorus group. Also, Chorus rear der never had the two limit screws on the top side of the der side plate...the screws were always set on bottom.

To the OP, you may want to check if that is a Campy BB...looks like non-driveside crank is just hanging on with too much of the taper showing.

EM3


----------



## JetSpeed (Nov 18, 2002)

Wow. Thanks all. 

I looked at the fork and can't see any bending or damage including the TT which I looked at closely before I bought it. 
It does seem to be a bit close to the DT though. If there is damage, what could be done about it??


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Have to agree with em3. He has a better eye than me. And I had switched the QR ends anyway - so should have said Athena for them. The only Chorus looking part is the knurled thingy on the rear shifter which otherwise looks Athena-ish.


----------



## em3 (Dec 25, 2005)

JetSpeed said:


> Wow. Thanks all.
> 
> I looked at the fork and can't see any bending or damage including the TT which I looked at closely before I bought it.
> It does seem to be a bit close to the DT though. If there is damage, what could be done about it??


I only mentioned the possible bent fork because the blades look too straight at the high end of the fork (almost like a track frame fork) and in at least two of the pics they almost appear to have a slight rearward bend. One thing to check is how the headset crown race lines up with the edge of the bottom headset cup....if the fork is bent you will see a gap. Also, after disassembling frame (in prep for the re-finishing) place the fork on a straight table and see if there is any bowing of the blades that looks unusual. And lastly, check the dropout alignment with the proper too, which could also be revealing of damage.

If there is damage it might be repairable. The Columbus blades on these TSX forks are very beefy and they maintain a fairly round profile throughout the bend, which means that they possibly could be bent back. A task not for the faint of heart and certainly not one to engage without the proper tools.

Good luck,

EM3


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

*fork comparison*

"borrowed" image from the gallery for comparison of the wheel-downtube distance:










and OP's


----------



## JetSpeed (Nov 18, 2002)

Yea, I've been looking at the same pics. I believe it to be slightly bent. I see NO
other damage though. 

What are my options???? I'm thinking of selling it and starting over. I only picked
this up on a deal/whim. I really want a Molteni or 7-11 with Campag in a 54. This
TT measured C-C is a 55cm, although it fits rather well for me.


----------



## martinrjensen (Sep 23, 2007)

*what to do what to do*

Well if it's just the fork that's bent, you could have that straightened. I would have someone check it out and look closely at the top and down tubes just after the head tube for any paint cracks, bending or dimples. Yours looks like it's just the fork so your options are straighten it or replace it. I would take it to a frame shop and tell them to check it out and make recommendations on whether in fact straightening is even an option. My feeling is that it would be, steel is pretty robust. 
I have had a frame straightened (2 actually) with no issues afterwards. One of those was a front fork similar to yours though there was no question that mine was bent. Yours "looks" bent especially in the comparason with the other bike showing the distance between the wheel and down tube. but again, there could be different size tires in those pictures, ya never know. Mine was really obvious.


JetSpeed said:


> Yea, I've been looking at the same pics. I believe it to be slightly bent. I see NO
> other damage though.
> 
> What are my options???? I'm thinking of selling it and starting over. I only picked
> ...


----------



## JetSpeed (Nov 18, 2002)

OK. I shot these to attempt to put the fork bend to rest. IMHO, it looks a tiny-tiny "bent."
What say you all??


----------



## JetSpeed (Nov 18, 2002)

A few more, look at the last shot(??).


----------



## jet sanchEz (Nov 28, 2005)

To my eye, yes, the fork is bent. I don't see any damage around the head tube or down tube so I think it is a minor fix. I had a similarly damaged fork repaired for $25 last summer.


----------



## martinrjensen (Sep 23, 2007)

Sorry, I don't think that's a "tiny tiny" bit bent. I think it's bent a fair amount. Still nothing that probably couldn't be straightened though.


----------



## hroch (Jul 9, 2008)

Bent just above the yellow stripe. The fork rake should be 4.3 cm by the Century geo charts, I woud guess from the pictures that it is hardly half of that here.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*I agree*



bikerjulio said:


> Since I'm stuck in the house with nothing better to do, I looked up the old catalog scans to try & settle the Chorus vs Athena thing.
> 
> Differences appear minor in the 1990 scans, but what I can see are:
> 
> ...


looks like Chorus to me as well


----------



## JetSpeed (Nov 18, 2002)

I had a friend who bulids steel bikes look at the frame yesterday.
He said that the pics I posted make the slight bend look worse that it really is (flash?). He claimed it
was about "normal fork bend/use/abuse" for it's age and hard wear signs. He said there were no signs 
of bends or other damage and it's totaly safe to ride although maybe a bit twitchy than normal. He also 
said it's an easy and cheap fix if I even wanted to do it. I'll keep it for now until I decide what I want to totally do.

Thanks ALL!!!


----------



## em3 (Dec 25, 2005)

JetSpeed said:


> "normal fork bend/use/abuse" for it's age and hard wear signs


Not sure what this means from someone who claims to build bikes...there is nothing normal about forks bending from regular use. The damage is certainly abuse or crash related (I suspect a curb or a garage door when bike was mounted to roof rack). Your "expert" friend is correct, however, on the fork being repairable. Take it to someone who has an alignment table and the correct tools. As I indicted above, the round profile TSX blades, together withe the flat fork crown yield a very strong fork which should be able to sustain the strain of being bent back to normal...this is not a complicated (nor expensive) fix if you find the right expert to do the work.

Given the great deal you got on the entire bike, it is definitely worth exploring the repair simply because if you try to re-sell you probably won't recoup what you paid for it given that you have to reveal the damage.

Oh yeah, and if you do decide to sell it you will want to make sure that you list parts group as Athena, NOT Chorus.


Good luck, EM3


----------



## JetSpeed (Nov 18, 2002)

I have someone interested in the bike. I told him I suspected the bike 
needed truing and a full-on restore was in order by someone who had a eye for
such work. He's asked all the right questions and wants to see the bike in person
before he buys.

I can't not mention the fork tuning even though the person I bought it from may/may not have 
known. I don't have the heart for that . . . .

I think I may just start-over in my quest for a steel Merckx OR, OR, OR do a new steel Tommisini fixed gear w/Campag!!


----------

