# Columbus Tubing Label Stickers: Fake or Real?



## bikerjohn64 (Feb 9, 2012)

Hi folks;

So I've just recently started looking into acquiring some vintage rides. Upon researching and looking at bikes for sale (on eBay and CL); I have noticed that there are some Columbus Tubing labels that look too new for it to be original.

The other thing I noticed from looking at different labels is that the ones that look original have the company name COLUMBUS along the top edge of the label. 

I have seen some labels on bikes and also labels for sale with COLUMBUS printed along the bottom edge of the labels.

Are the ones printed along the bottom edge Fake? Or did the manufacturer switch up the print location?

I would greatly appreciate any info regarding this.

Also; would a fake label tend to "devalue" the price of the bike even if the bike is original and may be true to what the label states as the tubing used?

Thanks!


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

COLUMBUS main


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## zmudshark (Jan 28, 2007)

Columbus decals are notorious for falling apart, repops can be had. I don't think a repop devalues the frame, IME. I would never assume that the frame is what the decal says it is, though. I've seen too many frames with SLX decals that are obviously not SLX.

Here is a good article:
ITALIAN CYCLING JOURNAL: Columbus Steel, Tubing for Frame Building


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## bikerjohn64 (Feb 9, 2012)

V; Thanks for the sticker link. The bike I am looking at has the sticker that looks like the one on the Top Right Corner and states CROMOR.

Z; thanks for that link too. I will be reading up some more to familiarize myself with specs.

The bike I am looking at is a '80s' Miele. I realize its not a serious vintage ride but would be my first one and looks to be in great shape. 

Miele Alba LX Men's 56cm - Mississauga / Peel Region Bikes For Sale - Kijiji Mississauga / Peel Region Canada.

The frame is in terrific condition but the components are ok. 

The buyer is asking $350 OBO. 

Being a Canadian bike and a Canadian; I thought it would make a great start


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## takmanjapan (Mar 24, 2004)

*Sticker looks ok*

Columbus cromor and matrix were one and the same tubeset. The matrix name was removed in favor of using Cromor due to a legal issue. I think Trek's matrix wheel division at the time had the copyright.

I'm also from Canada and in the late 80's nearly all the mid-top end Miele's were using columbus tubing.


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## bikerjohn64 (Feb 9, 2012)

takmanjapan said:


> Columbus cromor and matrix were one and the same tubeset. The matrix name was removed in favor of using Cromor due to a legal issue. I think Trek's matrix wheel division at the time had the copyright.
> 
> I'm also from Canada and in the late 80's nearly all the mid-top end Miele's were using columbus tubing.


Thanks Mr. T. 

I'm looking at this one and there is a Rossin (don't know the frame set) with a 9 speed setup (I realize its not period correct but I don't mind) components and some Campy parts for $500 with Mavic 700c rims on Campy hubs.

The frame shows more use and time; but the chrome forks and stays are nice......

Would I do better with the Rossin? I think it's a nicer spec'd ride.


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## takmanjapan (Mar 24, 2004)

*Rossin Vs Miele*

Got a pic or link to the Rossin? I LOVE Rossin. I would think hard about it unless it was pretty beat up. Miele's simply don't have the same cachet as an Italian Rossin. 




bikerjohn64 said:


> Thanks Mr. T.
> 
> I'm looking at this one and there is a Rossin (don't know the frame set) with a 9 speed setup (I realize its not period correct but I don't mind) components and some Campy parts for $500 with Mavic 700c rims on Campy hubs.
> 
> ...


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

I have a Miele from '91, all 105. Good bike that's held up.

The one in the ad looks in nice condition, but it's an earlier generation of components, single pivot brakes, probably 170mm cranks and biopace rings, bars that may or may not suit you. 

Up to you, but I'm sure you can do better for that money. I'd pass.


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## bikerjohn64 (Feb 9, 2012)

takmanjapan said:


> Got a pic or link to the Rossin? I LOVE Rossin. I would think hard about it unless it was pretty beat up. Miele's simply don't have the same cachet as an Italian Rossin.


I'm going to try to go have a look. Will post some pics for your opinions. ;-)


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## bikerjohn64 (Feb 9, 2012)

bikerjulio said:


> The one in the ad looks in nice condition, but it's an earlier generation of components, single pivot brakes, probably 170mm cranks and biopace rings, bars that may or may not suit you.


Yeah; it is mostly LX Sport? I will keep looking to see what else comes up. This add has been up for about 2 weeks so you're most likely right that the seller wants too much for it.


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## bikerjohn64 (Feb 9, 2012)

So here are some pics for the Rossin that I went to see. I forgot to note what model it is but I will list the components. 
Bar and stem is Cinelli; friction shifters-Campagnolo; FD-Edco; RD-Shimano 600; Crankset: Edco Competition; hubs-Campagnolo; rims-Mavic Open 4 CD; shimano pedals; Brake Lever- Shimano Dura Ace; headset-105; cassette- 9spd. 
The buyer wants $500 firm. What do you guys think? I know that the components are much better than the Miele.


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## bikerjohn64 (Feb 9, 2012)

Another few pics.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Not bad looking at first glance. But. A real dogs breakfast of unoriginal components. Frame OK, Wheels tough, OK if bearings good. rest is meh. Again for that price I'd pass.

In the 7-speed era there is excellent indexed shifting available from Campy Syncro 2 shifters and early '90's RD's. Or Shimano's SIS components.

Lots of people with old bikes have highly inflated ideas about their value.

You are in the entry level brand new bike range at $500 - like this:

Schwinn Road Bikes, Le Tour Super, Reynolds 520 Chromoly steel frame road bikes


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## bikerjohn64 (Feb 9, 2012)

bikerjulio said:


> Not bad looking at first glance. But. A real dogs breakfast of unoriginal components.


LOL!

Yes; true with parts all over. The bearings in the hubs are smooth. The only reason I didn't go for it initially was the colour. Not my first choice. If I did go with something like this; I would slowly build a full campy build with it.

However; I'm glad to get your feedback Julio. Much appreciate your frankness.

Thanks.


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## davcruz (Oct 9, 2007)

I like the color of the Rossin, based on the lack of seat tube bottle holder bolts I would guess it is early 80's, did the seller know if it is SL tubed or SLX? Looks like a 55-56cm in the pics and if it is SLX the frame would bring good money on eBay so the price tag may not be all that high but it seems a bit off based on the total grab bag of components that none of which other than the stem and bars would have come on the bike. I would offer $350-375 based on how good the chrome looks, pits or rust would be lower and excellent chrome would be higher of course.


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## bikerjohn64 (Feb 9, 2012)

The seller did not know which tubeset but thinks its SL. No sticker on the bike. The chrome was nice; the bike would clean up really well. The components were a little dirty; even the campy hubs looked good when I rubbed the dirt off. 
Unfortunately the seller right now is firm; so I will wait it out and keep my eyes open. 
Thanks to everyone for their insight. Vintage rides are new to me; but I think I've gotten bit by the bug ;-).


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## raymonda (Jan 31, 2007)

I would say later 80's due to the cable rouying go under the BB. The BB shell is as nice as the lugs, so some value was placed on the frame. Most likely a decent tube set. The components are certainly a mixed bag but nice anyway. Nice saddle, BTW! Red is a great color and the frame looks to be in great shape.

$500 is more than fair and parted out it would bring more on ebay. Building this bike today would cost much more than $500.


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## raymonda (Jan 31, 2007)

bikerjohn64 said:


> V; Thanks for the sticker link. The bike I am looking at has the sticker that looks like the one on the Top Right Corner and states CROMOR.
> 
> Z; thanks for that link too. I will be reading up some more to familiarize myself with specs.
> 
> ...


Nice frame. I doubt the decal is a fake. Cromor is not what one would brag about. It is decent but really toward the bottom of Columbus range. $350 seems like a good deal. You could do a lot worse than this. Buy it and enjoy it!


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## bikerjohn64 (Feb 9, 2012)

Thanks for your input Raymond. Your last comment about just enjoying the bike is right on. 
I am really leaning towards the Rossin considering for the difference of $150; I think there is more value(for me) for a potential build up. Plus; it rode well and shifted amazingly smooth for a 9 speed friction setup. 
The next question I think would be appreciated for anyone that has been with a significant other for some time.....
Do I buy it first then apologize to my wife or try to explain to my wife why I might want/need another bike? Hmmmm......I think I'm going to buy it and then I'll "Have a lot of hesplainingtodo". ;-).


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## davcruz (Oct 9, 2007)

raymonda said:


> I would say later 80's due to the cable rouying go under the BB. The BB shell is as nice as the lugs, so some value was placed on the frame. Most likely a decent tube set. The components are certainly a mixed bag but nice anyway. Nice saddle, BTW! Red is a great color and the frame looks to be in great shape.
> 
> $500 is more than fair and parted out it would bring more on ebay. Building this bike today would cost much more than $500.


I thought they all had two sets of bottle braze-ons by the late eighties? Am I wrong on this? I was figuring around 84-85 based solely on the bottle mounts.


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## bikerjohn64 (Feb 9, 2012)

davcruz said:


> I thought they all had two sets of bottle braze-ons by the late eighties? Am I wrong on this? I was figuring around 84-85 based solely on the bottle mounts.


This one only has the one. It also has a band type FD instead of the braze-on type.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

raymonda said:


> I would say later 80's due to the cable rouying go under the BB. The BB shell is as nice as the lugs, so some value was placed on the frame. Most likely a decent tube set. The components are certainly a mixed bag but nice anyway. Nice saddle, BTW! Red is a great color and the frame looks to be in great shape.
> 
> $500 is more than fair and parted out it would bring more on ebay. Building this bike today would cost much more than $500.


I have a De Rosa that I got in the early '80s with under the BB cable routing, one bottle braze on and a front derailer braze on. 
It's hard to place an age on the frame without knowing Rossins time line of changes.

I'd say that the bike is well worth the money paid.

Rossin, main


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## raymonda (Jan 31, 2007)

Some pro model frames remained built with one set of water bottle braze ons through out 1980-1990. Under BB routing and the # water bottle braze ons indicators are not a scientific way of determining the age but can assist the with identifying the time period. I'm going to say that 1985-1987 is about the right time period for this frame.

Rossins are very nice Italian frames and have a rich history, which may or may not mean anything to the buyer. I really enjoy lugged steel frames and this would interest me as a collector. Without having to spend long green you can get a very interesting and nice frame which should provide an enoyable ride. 

It can be ridden as is and would make a great ride as a primary bike or secondary. It can be built as a retro new bike with a group of your choice today, or it can be rebuilt back up as a period correct bike and enjoyed on Sunday rides.

Anyway you look at it, it should be a fun purchase.

How to tell your wife............well............I would make a few deposits with her.......making sure she is taken care of and then let her know you want to pull the trigger on this purchase. 

Some find that buying a new bike usually cost twice as much as you planned after you factor in your wife getting something too.


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## bikerjohn64 (Feb 9, 2012)

raymonda said:


> How to tell your wife............well............I would make a few deposits with her.......making sure she is taken care of and then let her know you want to pull the trigger on this purchase.
> 
> Some find that buying a new bike usually cost twice as much as you planned after you factor in your wife getting something too.


Well; I bought the bike. Could not resist temptation. Yeah! 

My wife was not surprised when I told her; she knows I'm bikeboy :thumbsup: and I know that we will be down in the islands in the next two weeks so she will be keeping an eye open for "shiny" things down there 

Raymond; I can tell you have done this before 

Anyhow; I will start a new thread with my New(to me) Rossin.:thumbsup:

Thanks for everyones input. Cheers for now.


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## raymonda (Jan 31, 2007)

Cool, post your progress.

Yep, been there a few times. I'm at a point where if I want a new ride I have to get rid of a present one to cover the cost.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

John - 

welcome to the club.

Beyond a "few" bikes there is "how many?".

I have 10 in the basement - but who can count?

I know that I can't.


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## bikerjohn64 (Feb 9, 2012)

Thanks Julio; 

Well I'm no where near your enchanted forest but this is my second road bike with also a FS mountain bike. I was in the same shoes as Raymond and have had to "upgrade" with each purchase. 

My other road bike is the '10 LOOK 586 with Record and Shamal wheelset. 

So this is my second foray into the vintage arena. My first one was a Fuji (80's) I bought for $5 at a neighbors garage sale. That was what got me into road riding. I wish I had that still; oh well. Lots of time still. 

So I will log any info I gather and work I do. So far this bike rides really nice without needing any work. It will be dismantled and fully cleaned and re-lubed.

I have emailed Rossin in Italy asking if they had any info on this bike. There is actually a photo of this exact same bike on their website amongst their history clips and from the look of it, this is an '85 model. 

Thanks again for everyone's warm and fuzzies. Look forward to more retro partaking. ;-)


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