# new bike advice, PLEASE



## lloydbraun (Nov 24, 2012)

Yes, another newbie asking bike buying advise...

A little about me. 
I have recently become interested in cycling. I have always been a motorcyclist, but lately have just somewhat lost interest. I want and need something to fill that void, not to mention, at 40, need a form of exercise that doesn't hammer the ol legs and knees. Until recently, i knew NOTHING about roadbikes, but having lurked around here and after visiting a few local shops, i am not totally ignorant about them. 

What i think i want.
When i began shopping, i was primarily looking into the used, $500-ish range. Having little luck on craigslist, not to mention thinking a little shop support is worthwhile on my 1st purchase, i have broadened my criteria to include several closeout 2012 models.

-2012 specialized allez comp apex, sram apex, $1250 otd.
-2012 felt z6, tiagra, $1480 otd. (leaning against this one, maybe simply because of the tiagra grp, although i know the '12 stuff is supposed to be pretty good)
-2012 trek 2.1, sram apex, $1300 otd.
-2012 scott speedster s20, 105's, $1150 otd
-2012 pinarello fp due, sram rival, $2200 otd.

I know, you're thinkin', "where'd he come up with the pina", but i just can't take my eyes off it. I actually was looking at a scott cr1 elite and the s20, and had talked myself into spending the money on it cr1, only to find it wasn't available in my size. So i inquired about the pinacello. All of these bikes are at different shops except the scott and pina, and i am supposed to do a test ride on these 2 later in the week.

Anyway, i know all these bikes are more than a newbie needs, and i would buy used if the right bike came along, but i would rather spend the extra money now than sell in a year or two and buy again. But as of now, i'm drawing the limit at the $2000 range. What are you guys thoughts/opinions?

Sorry for the looooooong post, guess i had alot to say???


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

Don't think of any of them as "more than a newbie needs". Buy the best bike that you can afford. And that fits you. People who snicker online about n00bs riding Pinarellos are probably not going to snicker and make snide comments to your face.


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## gte105u (Aug 12, 2012)

I think all those are great bikes. Get the one that speaks to you so you don't regret not getting it. If it is the Pinarello then do it. But try to put aside your preliminary judgement until you ride them. It coule shake your opinion up.

Having said that you can see from my signature I have a '12 Specialized Allez Apex. I LOVE this bike. I am not saying it is the best for bike for you, but I doubt you would be disappointed by it either. Double Tap shifting is something you either love or hate. I love it, much preferred over Shimano's separate levers. This is personal preference though. The throw can be long on the chainring shift which can be hard to hit in the drops. If you have shorter fingers that may be something to consider. The cogs are not nearly as hard, I flip through them with no effort. SRAM components are very similar between the lines so you get a lit of bang for the buck. I also like the zero loss shifting. I hardly notice a jump even when standing on the uphill and shifting. Enjoy the process and good luck.

BTW 
I paid what you were quoted OTD on the Allez. Mine was after the '13s came out as well, so I think you are getting a solid deal.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

IMO, one part of your post stands out. That being "... not to mention, at 40, need a form of exercise that doesn't hammer the ol legs and knees". 

While it's true that (done 'right') recreational cycling is a low impact sport, done 'wrong' (bad fit and /or form) it's not uncommon for cyclists to experience hip/ knee issues.

That given, I suggest staying with reputable LBS's and shopping for shops _along with_ bikes, because there you'll get value added services like sizing/ fit assistance and post purchase tweaks to fit.

You don't really go into much detail on the type(s) of riding you'll be doing and your longer term goals. If you're keeping to recreational/ fitness type rides, with longer (endurance/ charity) rides in your future, you may want to narrow your range to relaxed geo/ endurance type bikes like the Felt Z series, Giant Defy or Specialized Secteur/ Roubaix's (among others). 

Most of the bikes on your list fall into the race category, but I suspect you've been _looking_ at pics of bikes more than _test riding_ them. If so, you need to take some time out to visit some shops, discuss your intended uses/ goals, cycling experiences, fitness level and take some bikes out (on the roads) to decide which fits and feels best to you.

As far as your price range, given the advantages of buying new from a reputable LBS, I think the $1200+/- range will get you a nice bike that'll suite your needs for the foreseeable future. This assumes you've chosen the bike that best suites your intended uses and fits well.


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## lloydbraun (Nov 24, 2012)

Yeah i totally get what youre saying about buy the best you can afford and also not to get anything set on my mind until i ride it. And yes i was measured at this shop to see if i'd fit the scott or the pinarello. They are supposed to fit them to my measurements and to me for the test ride. I really wonder if, not ever have ridden any roadbike, will i be able to even tell a difference in the rides? And that specialized is a really nice-looking bike i'm still thinking on. It is the white/red, real clean-looking. The pinarello though, man it just looks so good, gloss carbon weave/red trim.

Anyway, thanks for the input, i'll keep you posted. Any other advise is welcomed. Do these prices seem about right? Is my thinking about dealing with a local shop on the first purchase seem legit? Or would i be as well to look into ebay or mail order bikes?


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## lloydbraun (Nov 24, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> IMO, one part of your post stands out. That being "... not to mention, at 40, need a form of exercise that doesn't hammer the ol legs and knees".
> 
> While it's true that (done 'right') recreational cycling is a low impact sport, done 'wrong' (bad fit and /or form) it's not uncommon for cyclists to experience hip/ knee issues.
> 
> ...


This makes alot of sense. That is one of the things this particular seller pointed out, was being sure the bike fit me and felt good. He said so many people just buy a bike based on their height and never get it fit for them, leading them to discomfort, and eventually turning them off to the sport. 

And yes, i am looking at the use being exactly as you describe, beginning with recreational and fitness use, and as my endurance and abilities increase, to longer more physical rides. I suppose i'm in decent shape, just noticing a little fat wanting to hang around my gut and waist that i've never been accustomed to. I'm starting to see i can't eat anything and everything and not gain an ounce anymore. I don't want a full racer tuck, but i think i would like a somewhat aggressive position. 

Solid advise, thank you.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

lloydbraun said:


> I don't want a full racer tuck, but i think i would like a somewhat aggressive position.


Your points are taken. Re: the possible preference for a somewhat aggressive rider position, while it's true that (all else being equal in stem/ spacer setup), 'race' geo will almost always get a rider lower, there's still ample range in saddle to bar drop on relaxed geo bikes, so I advise you try both before deciding. If you're like many others, you may walk away with the perception that you prefer the slightly more predictable handling these bikes provide - _and_ they're still race worthy. 

Just to clarify, I'm not pushing one over the other. Rather, I'm suggesting that you stay open to more options as opposed to less. If all goes as planned, you're going to have this bike awhile and spend an appreciable amount of time on it, so you want to be both comfortable _and_ efficient on your rides.


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## BostonG (Apr 13, 2010)

lloydbraun said:


> I really wonder if, not ever have ridden any roadbike, will i be able to even tell a difference in the rides?


Yes.

And it’ll be especially noticeable from a relaxed geo to a race/traditional geo. But even within the same category you will probably notice differences and some will feel more like you than others. If you’re someone who feels that the Pinarello is more who you are (regardless of why) and therefore makes you happiest, go for it. 

And have fun with the test riding process. Take the bikes out for more than just around the block.


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## Schneiderguy (Jan 9, 2005)

As posted above don't buy online but from a LBS that will take the time to fit you properly and you have confidence in. You don't have the experience to risk buying online and a realistic risk of being unhappy with a purchase. Enjoy the hunt. If you like cycling this isn't likely to be your last bike so don't get too O.C. about your selection. Pick the one you like the best that feels like it fits and a reputable shop has set it up to fit you.


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## jpaschal01 (Jul 20, 2011)

You should definitely test ride that Felt also. The 10speed Tiagra shifting is good and that is a carbon frame worth upgrading over time. Plus the Z frame from felt is their relaxed geometry frame but is still pretty racy also. When the Garmin team rode Felts, Tom Danielson rode a Z series bike.


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## lloydbraun (Nov 24, 2012)

jpaschal01 said:


> You should definitely test ride that Felt also. The 10speed Tiagra shifting is good and that is a carbon frame worth upgrading over time. Plus the Z frame from felt is their relaxed geometry frame but is still pretty racy also. When the Garmin team rode Felts, Tom Danielson rode a Z series bike.


Funny you mention the z6. As i said, they have the bike for about $1500, I think the sticker is close to $1800. I saw one on ebay that the starting bid was $900 and sold for $900. I should have dropped a last minute bid on there for 950 or so. That was a heckuva deal and was a new bike to be packed and shipped from a bike shop. Oh well, easy come easy go.

I'm doing several test rides thur or fri so we'll see what happens.I'm shopping at 3 different shops which are reputable and actually i like all of them and the staff i've delt with.


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## HolyBull (Nov 27, 2008)

I always thought Trek, Specialized, and Bianchi's at retail were overpriced, but if you can get a deal, why not.

Get the Pinarello, it sounds like that's the one you want and you only live once.


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## lloydbraun (Nov 24, 2012)

Another question, my guess is i will need to buy pedals, shoes, tire kit/bag. bottle holders and likely some lighting and a computer. Essentially everything i need or want, i do not have. Is it best to get these from the shop, or am i as well or better to do online shopping? I see there are some site sponsors, any recommendations? I have long been a motorcyclist, and have learned it is almost always much cheaper to shop outside the dealership for most accessories and apparel. I would guess bikes are the same? I may be getting ahead of myself, but i'm pretty sure the dealer would love for me to buy a bike from them, then spend a few hundred more on parts/accessories. And i haven't asked but will, if they will discount any of it.


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## qwertasdfg24 (Sep 18, 2012)

shoes, shorts/jersey, buy locally, first time buyer, no way around it, buying online for shoes/clothing is like buying lottery, hoping to win(fit).

computer, tire kit/bag, bottle holder, you can buy online.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

lloydbraun said:


> Another question, my guess is i will need to buy pedals, shoes, tire kit/bag. bottle holders and likely some lighting and a computer. Essentially everything i need or want, i do not have. Is it best to get these from the shop, or am i as well or better to do online shopping? I see there are some site sponsors, any recommendations? I have long been a motorcyclist, and have learned it is almost always much cheaper to shop outside the dealership for most accessories and apparel. I would guess bikes are the same? I may be getting ahead of myself, but i'm pretty sure the dealer would love for me to buy a bike from them, then spend a few hundred more on parts/accessories. And i haven't asked but will, if they will discount any of it.


You aren't getting ahead of yourself at all. Many LBS's offer ~10% discounts on accessories with any bike purchase, so inquire as you do your test rides later this week. I wouldn't hinge my bike purchase on an LBS's post-purchase policies, but you may find a shop that has the bike you want _with_ discounts offered. 

Nothing wrong with shopping online, but my advice is to do so selectively. Meaning, buy the items that are clear cut/ straightforward in use and patronize the LBS for items that require a level of knowledge/ expertise. Clipless pedals and cleat setup come to mind, because cleat placement is an integral part of fit. Conversely, a saddle bag just needs to be sized correctly and fasten securely to your bike. 

Re: online suggestions, poke around on Nashbar, Performance Bike, Jenson USA, Excel Sports. I'm sure other members will add their favorites....


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## charlox5 (Jan 31, 2011)

Welcome to the sport, plenty of motorcycle refugees here, myself being one of them. 

I second everything that people have already said. FIT is KING. but, you are right, since you are new to riding, your fit will be changing as you refine your technique and get used to the riding position--so it's important to have enough flexibility in the fit a frame can offer you as your riding position evolves. that's where a good local shop (LBS for short) comes into play, and has the most to offer you--a LBS should make you feel confident that the frame you are buying is the right size for you--knowing the right size is going to come from your "feel" on the bike, and experience on their part, so you really do need to trust your shop.

This is important and where some LBS's hoodwink their customers: if they don't have the right size frame "in stock" don't be convinced or pressured into taking existing inventory that's a size big or small, even if it's a "smoking deal." 



lloydbraun said:


> Another question, my guess is i will need to buy pedals, shoes, tire kit/bag. bottle holders and likely some lighting and a computer. Essentially everything i need or want, i do not have. Is it best to get these from the shop, or am i as well or better to do online shopping? I see there are some site sponsors, any recommendations? I have long been a motorcyclist, and have learned it is almost always much cheaper to shop outside the dealership for most accessories and apparel. I would guess bikes are the same? I may be getting ahead of myself, but i'm pretty sure the dealer would love for me to buy a bike from them, then spend a few hundred more on parts/accessories. And i haven't asked but will, if they will discount any of it.


people differ on what level of loyalty a customer owes his LBS. some think that accessories should be bought at the LBS to help support their operation, others think that lowest price is the most important factor. personally, i fall somewhere in between--for certain items like shoes, i will buy at my LBS. for components and other hard goods, i'll give my LBS a shot to give me a good price on things and buy from them if they come close, but chances are they usually can't. Also, since i do most of my own wrenching, I'm not relying on them to give me "free" or cheap service, so i don't feel that i "owe" them, per se. though i do try to patronize them as much as possible. 

in your case, things that are fit specific like shoes and helmets should probably bought at the shop. now that i know what head shape i've got (Bell helmets fit me best. Like Shoei's) I feel ok buying online. i don't think asking for a discount is out of line.


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## gte105u (Aug 12, 2012)

I asked my LBS if they could do anything to help with accessories. They offered to throw in some low end bottle cages. Never hurts to ask. 

Chainlove.com is a clearance site that rotates through a new item every 15 min or so. They have some interesting things pop up at good prices. I usually check them out a few times a day at random.

Amazon is a decent place for accessories. Don't count on much help from the descriptions but if you do some research you can score good prices from them. Their customer service is top notch too. 

I have bought from Nashbar a number of times. I like them a lot. They rotate through different promotions, so I don't order from them unless they are running a free shipping or 20% off deal.

There is another liquidation site called Aawyeah.com I have used a couple times. Their selection is spotty, but if they have what you need their prices are very good and shipping is free on everything.

I live in the middle of no where so cannot buy much from the LBS. The couple thatbare a reasonable drive (about an hour) have very limited selection. I bought almost everything online, including helmet, shoes, jersies, etc. No problems on my end. Do your research to see how things tend to fit, ask questions (here and to the vendor), and know you may need to return some things so don't buy from a pkace that it is a problem. It took me some time to adjust my shoes and pedals but I got it there. Just a different perspective.


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## timeless (Jun 2, 2007)

mpre53 said:


> Don't think of any of them as "more than a newbie needs". Buy the best bike that you can afford. And that fits you. People who snicker online about n00bs riding Pinarellos are probably not going to snicker and make snide comments to your face.


best advice. 

I am new to road biking and dropped 2k to get a 2012 Cannondale Supersix. Yeah that is pretty high end for a complete noob to road biking. I come from the mountain bike world so I can see how getting the best you can afford pays off in the long run because 1 the parts start off better so they tend to last longer before you have to get new/upgrade so you spend less getting to higher end stuff.

My mountain bike was a true entry level one. Yeah it is good but really I am not going to poor much more money into it. Instead just going to save for a much better high end bike now because I an afford it.


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## lloydbraun (Nov 24, 2012)

Been doing some test rides. I've ridden 5 bikes and have it pretty much narrowed to 2. The first LBS i went to had set up 3 bikes for me to sample. First i rode the scott speedster 20 with 105's, then a scott cr1 with 105's, then the pinarello with sram. I wasn't planning on buying the cr1, but the salesman wanted me to have a direct comparison of the aluminum vs carbon frame, with the same component group, which i thought was really a good idea and pretty cool of him. Right off i could tell a difference in the ride quality, but can't say the s20 was bad. The pino was very similar to the cr1 ride, but i liked the sram shifting and feel better. It was very solid-feeling.

At another shop, I then rode a specialized tarmac sport with 105's, then the 2012 allez comp apex, and a 2012 secteur that was marked down also. All were nice, but i think between these i'd choose the allez, mainly just because the sram and the value. The tarmac was really good, but i can't justify paying the same for it as i would the pinarello, which has the components i prefer. 

So for now, i'm heavily debating which to buy, the 2012 pinarello fp2 sram, or the 2012 allez apex. One thing that keeps coming back to me is the warranty on the pinarello. Everyone seems to offer "lifetime" on the frame but pino, who only offers 3 years. Any reason this should cause me concern or deter me to another bike? I've searched and not seen viable arguements for either. In some pretty old threads, some say they've had issue, most have not. To me, if a company has faith in their own product, why wouldn't they offer a warranty that is concurrent with the industry norm? Any opinions?

Also, i checked out a couple treks. I know they are great, it just seems everyone and their mother rides one. 

The pino or the allez, I think i could buy either of these bikes and be happy. Part of me (the logical part) says save nearly $1k and get the specialized. But some part (the part that drove me to most of my motorcycle purchases), just craves that pinarello: the look, the ride, the thought of having a bike that is as beautiful to look at in the shop as it is to ride. What ya think?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

lloydbraun said:


> Been doing some test rides. I've ridden 5 bikes and have it pretty much narrowed to 2. The first LBS i went to had set up 3 bikes for me to sample. First i rode the scott speedster 20 with 105's, then a scott cr1 with 105's, then the pinarello with sram. I wasn't planning on buying the cr1, but the salesman wanted me to have a direct comparison of the aluminum vs carbon frame, with the same component group, which i thought was really a good idea and pretty cool of him. Right off i could tell a difference in the ride quality, but can't say the s20 was bad. The pino was very similar to the cr1 ride, but i liked the sram shifting and feel better. It was very solid-feeling.
> 
> At another shop, I then rode a specialized tarmac sport with 105's, then the 2012 allez comp apex, and a 2012 secteur that was marked down also. All were nice, but i think between these i'd choose the allez, mainly just because the sram and the value. The tarmac was really good, but i can't justify paying the same for it as i would the pinarello, which has the components i prefer.
> 
> ...


Of all that you've offered here, I think it comes down to the (roughly) $1k difference and the warranty. 

JMO (and I'll anticipate being out voted here), but this being your first road bike, the fact that it suites your needs and comes with a lifetime warranty, I suggest staying with the Allez. Eye candy is nice, but (IMO) bikes are _primarily_ tools, to be ridden/ used, not looked at. And if you stay with this, there's no saying you can't upgrade with your next bike. And there's almost always a _next _bike. 

On the topic of warranty, ironically, if the Pino were alu I'd be less concerned with the 3 year warranty. Being CF, I'd hedge on that. There's probably an excellent chance you'd be ok and not experience problems, but if you did and the warranty had expired, you'd have a sizable financial outlay to replace/ repair the bike. 

And objectively speaking, if that 3 year warranty were offered on another (less desirable make/ model), wouldn't that serve to have you second guess the purchase? Food for thought.


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## gte105u (Aug 12, 2012)

Will you regret not getting the Pinarello? If you will regret not getting it then get it. If you want my honest opinion get the Allez. With $1k difference, that is a lot of accessories, gear, wheel upgrade, etc. Your desire for a second bike with a different fit or style may rise (relaxed, TT, cyclocross, commuter, etc.). Your fit or capabilities may change and you outgrow it. Spend less on your first, get a solid bike you are happy with, but room to grow as well. Get what you love, certainly don't regret the purchase. But that is my opinion.


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## benroe1000 (Jun 25, 2012)

Loyd I was like you and came from motorcycling. I tried running like I used to do when I was younger and it beat my knees up to the point of needing steroids. I started on a comfort bike 2yrs ago and am now on my third road bike. If I had it to do over again I still would have started on the comfort bike but would have bit the bullet and got a good carbon road bike to begin with. Doing it the way I did I ended up with a bike for every member of the family and now have one I'm going to give to my cousin for Christmas. I also can appreciate the differences between aluminum and carbon fiber and different components. I just built my daughter a Pinarello and it has a bling factor my current Fuji just can't match. I rode several bikes including a Pinarello FP Due and a Z series Felt before I bought the Fuji Gran Fondo and for me it's a great bike. But every time I look at that Pinarello I built up for my daughter I'm drooling all over it and wish it was in my size! lol


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## MPov (Oct 22, 2010)

Buy the bike you are going to want to ride more. If you look crave the Pinarello, and can afford it, then just get it. You might be less excited to ride a bike that feels like it was a compromise.


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## JoePAz (Jul 20, 2012)

I would advise the Allez. The reason is less upfront cost. There are two big risks when starting out and buying a bike. 1) you lose interest and it turns to a dust collector. 2)As you become a more experienced rider the fit changes as well as what you like. 


If it turns into dust collector cheaper is better. If your fit changes it could be that you "outgrow" the bike. This may not be a fault of you or the bike fitter, but as you put miles down your flexibility and comfort level can change thus needing a new fit. 

I have 300 miles on my road bike and I need to make seat adjustment as I moving my position on the bike due my experience on it. It is still in fit range on the bike, but I can see how different the bike feels now than it did when I got it. I can see how it is possible that in another 1000 miles my fit may very different from my initial fit. 

So basically what I am saying is that there is a good chance that the first road bike you buy will not be the bike you ride forever. It will at some point turn out to not be quite right as you develop your riding style and habits. This why most advice not spending really big money on a first bike.


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## Packersfantaz (Nov 28, 2012)

I have a question so I thought I would post here for help instead of starting a new thread. My background, my wife and I just started riding two weeks ago to complete a 42 mile ride next year in the local big bike race. What is the difference between an endurance, race and cyclecross set up in a road bike? 

Also I see brand is not as much issue a fit, but is there a difference in performance in Cannondale, Specialized, or say Fuji? I have found some Fuji's with Ultegra Components for under $1500. I have had some say buy best component set up as most manufacturer frames are not far off in quality?

All yelp is greatly appreciated


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Packersfantaz said:


> I have a question so I thought I would post here for help instead of starting a new thread. My background, my wife and I just started riding two weeks ago to complete a 42 mile ride next year in the local big bike race. What is the difference between an endurance, race and cyclecross set up in a road bike?


The differences aren't so much in setups as they are with the frame geometries. Endurance (or relaxed) geo bikes generally have taller head tubes, slacker head tube angles, larger fork rakes and longer chainstays. Together, they produce a bike that's more stretched out with more trail, resulting in a smoother ride and more predictable steering. The taller head tube allows for a more upright rider position. 

Race is pretty much opposite of the above, with shorter head tubes, steeper head tube angles, less fork rake and shorter chainstays. The result is quicker steering/ handling and a more aggressive (aero) rider position. 

The differences seem more pronounced than they actually are, with many pro's racing relaxed geo bikes.

CX bikes are pretty much aligned with endurance/ relaxed geo bikes, but may also have even longer chainstays/ wheelbases and allow for wider tires. Some have lower gearing and taller bottom brackets for clearance - all done to accommodate off-road riding conditions. 



Packersfantaz said:


> Also I see brand is not as much issue a fit, but is there a difference in performance in Cannondale, Specialized, or say Fuji? I have found some Fuji's with Ultegra Components for under $1500. I have had some say buy best component set up as most manufacturer frames are not far off in quality?


In a given market segment, frame quality isn't going to vary much. IMO/E the frame and fork are the heart of the bike, dictating fit, handling and (to some extent) ride, so THEY matter more than what I refer to as the "bolt-ons". 

Relating to your fit comment, choosing the right geo for a given individual is more apt to result in optimal fit, which translates into comfort and efficiency on a bike. That given, if you want to focus on attaining higher _performance_, aside from improving the motor (you), buy a bike that fits and feels the best - no matter the brand/ model. It should however, suite your intended uses/ goals.


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## Packersfantaz (Nov 28, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> Relating to your fit comment, choosing the right geo for a given individual is more apt to result in optimal fit, which translates into comfort and efficiency on a bike. That given, if you want to focus on attaining higher _performance_, aside from improving the motor (you), buy a bike that fits and feels the best - no matter the brand/ model. It should however, suite your intended uses/ goals.


Thanks for the response, so I am a big question person as I rather have more information than not enough, make a mistake invest and never like it again. My next question is aluminum versus carbon. I have played enough sports like golf and hockey to know the difference in carbon fiber versus steel or in hockeys case wood. In those sports generally the benefit it more customizable and greater performance going to carbon fiber, but at the same time generally give up durability. I have not tried a carbon bike yet as some have said maybe not the best idea at 6'2", 255lbs (down about 10 lbs in three weeks of riding and diet, this is why I am stoked about riding for my cardio). 

Right now I am leaning toward aluminum for less flex and a little more durability, someone told me a higher priced aluminum frame would be better, they seem to top out around $1500 (I know there are more much higher, but generally it seems to switch to carbon at this point). He told me a carbon bike in this range may not be as sturdy. 

Any help again is appreciated.


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## JoePAz (Jul 20, 2012)

I have been told that carbon frames can provide the best of everything. Light weight, stiffness, and ride comfort. This can be done because carbon fiber can be tuned to provide stiffness and compliance. 

Aluminum is good entry level material, but they say will ride a little more harshly than carbon. I you are just starting out I think it comes down to price. Aluminium is in general cheaper than a fully carbon frame and will ride just fine. The current trend for cost and ride comfort is Aluminum frame with a carbon fork. Much cheaper than a all carbon bike and still a good response. I personally ride an old carbon bike. I was look for bike a few months back and for my needs I went used. I found a deal on 2001 Trek 5200. Carbon frame with ultegra components. It was nice higher end bike in its day. I love it, but I can't really say it better than aluminum. 

As for durability.... I think either one is fine for road bikes. It is not like you will be taking jumps or anything. Some people would say aluminum is less durable since it does not a fatigue limit. I am not so sure I would worry about that. I also a ride an aluminum frame Mtn bike and don't worry a bit about that.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Packersfantaz said:


> Thanks for the response, so I am a big question person as I rather have more information than not enough, make a mistake invest and never like it again. My next question is aluminum versus carbon. I have played enough sports like golf and hockey to know the difference in carbon fiber versus steel or in hockeys case wood. In those sports generally the benefit it more customizable and greater performance going to carbon fiber, but at the same time generally give up durability. I have not tried a carbon bike yet as some have said maybe not the best idea at 6'2", 255lbs (down about 10 lbs in three weeks of riding and diet, this is why I am stoked about riding for my cardio).
> 
> Right now I am leaning toward aluminum for less flex and a little more durability, someone told me a higher priced aluminum frame would be better, they seem to top out around $1500 (I know there are more much higher, but generally it seems to switch to carbon at this point). He told me a carbon bike in this range may not be as sturdy.
> 
> Any help again is appreciated.


This being a forum (and the beginner's corner, at that) you don't need to justify asking questions, so ask away. FWIW, I fully agree with you that this is an investment and more info is better than less.

At your weight, I think any frame material would be suitable, but higher end CF/ steel may be a little _less_ suitable than low to mid-range (more on that later). Some manufacturers do impose weight limits (ex: TT S3 steel is ~180lbs, some high end CF, ~ 240)

Re: your comment on alu being less flexy and more durable (than CF), I'd say that's highly debatable. Both materials can be designed to be more or less flexy and more or less durable, but given their inherent characteristics, CF trumps alu for both stiffness to weight and durability. It's actually somewhat of an apples to oranges comparison, because of their differing characteristics. Alu has a useable life before failure, whereas (barring an impact) CF does not. 

Beyond design, to a large extent, what determines durability is material. More material generally equates to more weight and increased durability. Conversely, less material = less weight = lower durability. So (ironically), buying a low to mid-range bike generally gets you _more_ durability - albeit at the cost of somewhat higher weight. A classic case of more (higher cost/ higher end) is less (weight and durability).

Re: the person offering that a mid-range CF bike would be less sturdy, I'd say that given what I've offered above (and generally speaking) they'd be incorrect. Stay away from higher end in any frame material and you'll increase durability.


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## lloydbraun (Nov 24, 2012)

Quick update:

It seems i'm putting way more thought into this purchase than any car or motorcylce buy i've ever made. Then again, 2 weeks ago i new nothing about anything road bikes, so it's been a steep learning curve just to get to the limited knowledge i have now. 

Anyway, i had about decided on the allez, when i checked another LBS, just to see what they had in a '12 leftover on sale. The salesman helping me showed me a caad10, which as of now the price i've forgotten, but in a size larger than i wanted. He offered to look up and see if any '12's were left and came back with a supersix 6 apex for $1500. Now this is $300 more than the allez, but with the carbon frame. So now i'm kicking around if i want to spend $300 more for the carbon. They will order the bike for me with a deposit, and if i'm not happy with the fit or ride, i can return it. So i'm thinking about giving it a try. 

I get what most of y'all said, getting in as cheap as i can with as good a bike possible, and i'm still partial to the allez, but the cannondale may be an upgrade worth the money. And more sensible than the pinarello. Feel free to post your thoughts...


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## kmak (Sep 5, 2011)

Get the Pinarello if it fits well. If you get the allez or the caad10 at some point you will want a carbon bike. If you get the Pinarello, you will already have one and instead can focus on upgrading components, wheels, etc. down the road instead of jonesing for a new bike.


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## skinewmexico (Apr 19, 2010)

You'd be shocked at the ride of the cheaper bike and some decent wheels. Worth every penny for good wheels. And I guess everyone is different, but I don't get the current fascination with SRAM.


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## vwluv10338 (Jul 20, 2012)

lloydbraun said:


> Quick update:
> 
> It seems i'm putting way more thought into this purchase than any car or motorcylce buy i've ever made. Then again, 2 weeks ago i new nothing about anything road bikes, so it's been a steep learning curve just to get to the limited knowledge i have now.
> 
> ...


I went into a bike shop around 4 months ago and walked out with a SuperSix 4 Rival for $2000 and a friend walked out with the Apex for $1600 so the prices are right in line. My SS is awesome and I wouldnt hesitate to buy one again but I went from steel to carbon and have never ridden AL so I cant help there.


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## skinewmexico (Apr 19, 2010)

Easy choice to go for the Cannondale.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

lloydbraun said:


> Quick update:
> 
> It seems i'm putting way more thought into this purchase than any car or motorcylce buy i've ever made. Then again, 2 weeks ago i new nothing about anything road bikes, so it's been a steep learning curve just to get to the limited knowledge i have now.
> 
> ...


I generally advise members to test ride _more_ bikes, so it's hard to argue against test riding the C'dale, especially considering it's close in price to the Allez and has a comparable warranty. 

The only caveat would be that you get clarification _beforehand_ that your deposit would be fully refunded, not a store credit (or similar) if you decide against the bike. Also, ask yourself if you'd feel obliged to buy the SS because the shop ordered it for you. I wouldn't, but you may.


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## jerdawg (Jun 14, 2012)

I just bought a 2013 Felt Z4....rides like a dream. I'd check them out also.


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## velocanman (Jul 15, 2011)

I didn't see you mention your size, but I question that you can't get a Scott CR1 that fits. I have ridden 06 and 09 CR1s and they were great frames. I'm thinking about going back to the 09 from the 11 Addict.

The 2010 and newer CR1s have a softer ride, I've read.

This may be OBE but the CR1 is worth a look.


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## lloydbraun (Nov 24, 2012)

velocanman said:


> I didn't see you mention your size, but I question that you can't get a Scott CR1 that fits. I have ridden 06 and 09 CR1s and they were great frames. I'm thinking about going back to the 09 from the 11 Addict.
> 
> The 2010 and newer CR1s have a softer ride, I've read.
> 
> This may be OBE but the CR1 is worth a look.


I may have misspoke, but i meant that there were no 2012 cr1s that would fit. I am only looking into left-over 2012's right now as they seem to offer the best value for the money. Everything is marked down 20-25%, so i can't justify paying more for similar bikes when none favors me more than the other. I'm strictly looking at best value/dollar in a bike that fits and i like. I did like the cr1, but i can buy any of last years models of several other manufacturers, equally or better equipped, for significantly less.

As for now, the supersix and the specialized offer great quality for the price, i like them both. I just need to decide if the carbon frame is worth $300 more. I'm thinking of clarifying that a refund, rather than credit be given if i'm not satisfied, and letting them order the cannondale.

At the rate this is going, i may be able to get a leftover 2013 cr1 deeply discounted before i finally commit to a purchase.:idea:


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## lloydbraun (Nov 24, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> I generally advise members to test ride _more_ bikes, so it's hard to argue against test riding the C'dale, especially considering it's close in price to the Allez and has a comparable warranty.
> 
> The only caveat would be that you get clarification _beforehand_ that your deposit would be fully refunded, not a store credit (or similar) if you decide against the bike. Also, ask yourself if you'd feel obliged to buy the SS because the shop ordered it for you. I wouldn't, but you may.


More good advice. I am going to clarify about the deposit refund/credit. If it is indeed a refund, i'm going to try it out. If i like it i can justify a few hundred more for carbon and lifetime warranty. Oh, and i've ridden 7 bikes now so looks like i've taken that advice too.:thumbsup:


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## lloydbraun (Nov 24, 2012)

skinewmexico said:


> You'd be shocked at the ride of the cheaper bike and some decent wheels. Worth every penny for good wheels. And I guess everyone is different, but I don't get the current fascination with SRAM.


I don't doubt this. As with motorcycles, the best money you can spend for better handling and weight reduction is wheels. 

I'm not fascinated by any stretch with sram, but on my limited seat time, i can say i liked the single lever "double-tap" shifting. The fixed brake lever just has a more solid, less cheapy feel to me. I cannot tell the difference in gear changes in the two, just prefer the fixed lever feel. I have no doubt i'd be as happy with shimano with a little practice, but if all else is equal, i like the sram.


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## lloydbraun (Nov 24, 2012)

Just want to say a quick thanks for all you guys' input. It's really given me alot to think on and probably saved me a significant chunk of change. I've taken consideration of everything y'all have replied and will keep you up to speed on my search.


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## velocanman (Jul 15, 2011)

One more saved round...don't discount the slightly used market of 2-3 year old frames. Frames are so well built now that I don't worry about the fatigue and warranty issue. I buy well-maintained used cars and the same works for me with bikes....


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

velocanman said:


> One more saved round...don't discount the slightly used market of 2-3 year old frames. *Frames are so well built now that I don't worry about the fatigue and warranty issue.* I buy well-maintained used cars and the same works for me with bikes....


For 2-3 year old frames of most any material, I wouldn't worry about fatiguing, but as a number of posts here on RBR will attest, frames can and do suffer defects. And without the use of special equipment, CF frame defects are sometimes difficult to detect.

As with most anything, there are compromises. I think buying used is similar to buying online. The main advantage is saving some money, but there are several disadvantages and a degree of risk. Gotta weigh the savings against the potential cost of those risks.


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## lloydbraun (Nov 24, 2012)

velocanman said:


> One more saved round...don't discount the slightly used market of 2-3 year old frames. Frames are so well built now that I don't worry about the fatigue and warranty issue. I buy well-maintained used cars and the same works for me with bikes....


I began my search by checking used bikes locally. Still check them daily, though I have had little luck finding the right size for the right price. I've seen a few but for one reason or another it just wasn't right for me. I'm a little uneasy about buying sight-unseen as of now (ebay, on-line stores), just because this is my 1st roadbike and i think a little shop support can't hurt until i learn a little more about fit, maintenance, gear, etc. Make no mistake though, if i found a good bike from the right owner at the right price i would have no problem buying used. But really there are some good deals to be had if you shop around new bikes. I agree with you 100% as saving some money used though. I actually never consider new for car or motorcycle purchases.


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## ThreePointO (Dec 11, 2012)

Get a carbon bike. You'll do it sooner or later.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

If this is your very first road bike, it's best to get the bike, pedals, and shoes from the LBS where they can fit you properly. I can get away with buying those things online now because I've accrued sufficient knowledge to take care of that myself. For other accessories like cages, computers, tools, bags, etc I would recommend Nashbar, Tree Fort Bikes, and Competitive Cyclist. The last one is especially nice since they offer free shipping on orders over $50 as well as lifetime unconditional returns. They will also price match competitors, so it's a win-win.


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## lloydbraun (Nov 24, 2012)

Bought the cannondale. Figured for the money, i might as well do carbon now and not go thru the process again in a couple years. As advised, i picked up pedals, shoes, lid, and an accessory pack that included a cateye computer, cage/bottle, rear lighting, tire patch kit and tube, and seat bag all at a 20% discount. Thanks for all the advise. I feel good about the purchase.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Nice bike.. congrats!!


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## yoshirama (Oct 18, 2012)

Congrats. Many people will remove those plastic wheel reflectors since they may unbalance the wheel and the aerodynamics may interfere with stability when you bomb down a hill at 30+ mph. I myself chose to place retro-reflective safety tape on the rims between 4 adjacent spokes to simulate the strobe effect of a plastic reflector.


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## lloydbraun (Nov 24, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> Nice bike.. congrats!!


Thanks, and i appreciate your tips and advise.



yoshirama said:


> Congrats. Many people will remove those plastic wheel reflectors since they may unbalance the wheel and the aerodynamics may interfere with stability when you bomb down a hill at 30+ mph. I myself chose to place retro-reflective safety tape on the rims between 4 adjacent spokes to simulate the strobe effect of a plastic reflector.


Yeah, i have zero intentions on doing evening/night rides, so i was thinking about removing those. That's always the 1st thing you do t a motorcycle, remove reflectors and the dummy stickers. Wasn't sure if that was standard procedure or not for bicycles. Can't imagine reflectors being much use for daytime riding?


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