# Headset/Stem bolt torque



## robnj (Sep 26, 2013)

Hello. I did a search, but not finding the exact value in any old post.

I have a click coming from the stem and wanted to ensure everything was correct in torque. 
What is the correct torque value for the inner bolt on the headset (not the cap)? If it matters, with a carbon frame.
I have it at 5Nm now, but I still get a click at times.

Thanks.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

That will depend on the individual stem. I've seen torque values vary from 4-7Nm. Check the documentation of your particular stem.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

robnj said:


> Hello. I did a search, but not finding the exact value in any old post.
> 
> I have a click coming from the stem and wanted to ensure everything was correct in torque.
> What is the correct torque value for the *inner bolt on the headset *(not the cap)? If it matters, with a carbon frame.
> ...


What exactly are you talking about?


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## ghettocop (Apr 19, 2014)

Are you talking about the compression plug in the steer tube that the top cap screws into? If so, it needs to be pretty damn tight.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

ghettocop said:


> Are you talking about the compression plug in the steer tube that the top cap screws into? If so, it needs to be pretty damn tight.



And you could not be more wrong.
Thats like saying the stem needs to be pretty damn tight. Either the stem or the plug will cause steer tube damaged if they are over tightened.


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## robnj (Sep 26, 2013)

tihsepa said:


> And you could not be more wrong.
> Thats like saying the stem needs to be pretty damn tight. Either the stem or the plug will cause steer tube damaged if they are over tightened.


Yes this is the bolt I am talking about. I don't want to crush the bearings or crack something, so I would like the correct torque value. 
I think the part is made by FSA, since the cap over the headset has their name on it.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

As you can plainly see, you will get all different opinions here.

The stem I have says 5.2 n-m max. One very important question is, what is your steerer made out of. Even some full carbon bikes have aluminum steerers. If the steerer is carbon, be VERY careful that you don't overtorque it as you can crush it. I would say stop at 5 n-m.

On to your problem, it could be the clicking you hear is because the pre-load (top cap) is a tiny bit loose. You will need to loosen stem, then tighten this top cap slightly (quarter turn or so). Make sure it still turns freely. Too tight can damage bearings. Then tighten stem again. I would say 5 n-m is safe.

If there is ANYTHING you are unsure of, take it to a reputable bike shop and have them do it. Remember, if you get anything wrong here, it can result in a catastrophic failure.


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## Mr Evil (Aug 12, 2011)

tihsepa said:


> And you could not be more wrong.
> Thats like saying the stem needs to be pretty damn tight. Either the stem or the plug will cause steer tube damaged if they are over tightened.


Actually, I would say "pretty damn tight" is a reasonable description. They tend to need quite a lot of torque compared to stem bolts - the one in my bike is specified at 10Nm, and some need as much as 15Nm (check the manufacturers spec for your specific one). Carbon is really strong in tension, so overtightening a compression plug is unlikely to cause any damage to the steerer.


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## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

Yup. My description would be "tighten pretty tight, and if it starts to slip, tighten it pretty tighter!"


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Mr Evil said:


> Actually, I would say "pretty damn tight" is a reasonable description.


No it's a pretty damn terrible description. Your "perception" of damn tight is different from someone else.


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## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

I think we are talking about the bolt that operates the expander on the plug, not the bearing preload, not the stem bolts.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Our shop uses 8 N-m for the compression plugs as a spec, just like ENVE suggests.

Edit: Just noticed he made a mistake on the video.
When you tighten up a stem, never stop after torquing the second bolt. This goes for any clamp mechanism where there are two or more bolts involved. After torquing the second bolt, you HAVE to go back and torque the first one again, for it will have lost tension during the tightening of the second bolt. You have to go back and forth until both bolts click at the proper torque, you cannot just do one, the other and quit.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

goodboyr said:


> I think we are talking about the bolt that operates the expander on the plug, not the bearing preload, not the stem bolts.


Yes, lots of confusion here. Someone mentioned them, but the torque values printed on the stem have nothing to do with the compression plug or the bearing preload-setting bolt.

For both of those, torque values have limited or no value. You tighten the compression plug just so it doesn't move when you set preload. You tighten the bearing preload-setting bolt until the headset bearing preload is correct. Feel trumps numbers here.

Good point on the need to tighten stem bolts alternatingly and incrementally.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

tlg said:


> No it's a pretty damn terrible description. Your "perception" of damn tight is different from someone else.


One person's loosy-goosy is another persons stripped. I agree that "pretty damn tight" is pretty damn bad advice. Numbers as in torque specs are more helpful. Unless you are a skilled bike mechanic with years of shop experience, you should not be doing any work without a torque wrench.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

MMsRepBike said:


> [video=youtube;cQe9TJJq1PE]
> When you tighten up a stem, never stop after torquing the second bolt. This goes for any clamp mechanism where there are two or more bolts involved. After torquing the second bolt, you HAVE to go back and torque the first one again, for it will have lost tension during the tightening of the second bolt. You have to go back and forth until both bolts click at the proper torque, you cannot just do one, the other and quit.


Best bit of advice yet I've seen on this thread.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Lombard said:


> One person's loosy-goosy is another persons stripped. I agree that "pretty damn tight" is pretty damn bad advice. Numbers as in torque specs are more helpful. Unless you are a skilled bike mechanic with years of shop experience, you should not be doing any work without a torque wrench.


It doesn't matter how skilled you think you are or how many years you have, you should use a torque wrench.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

MMsRepBike said:


> It doesn't matter how skilled you think you are or how many years you have, you should use a torque wrench.



I actually agree with you on this MMsRepBike, but I usually get flamed in here when I say that.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

I don't care about getting flamed. I also don't care how experienced anyone is or how long they've been around. The only thing that matters is doing the job correctly, and without a properly calibrated torque wrench you can't know if that's being done or not.

Which reminds me:

Never just set the torque wrench down when you're done with it and "go ride your bike" or whatever, that's a good way to ruin it's calibration. Always dial down the torque wrench to zero before going on your way or putting it away.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

MMsRepBike said:


> Never just set the torque wrench down when you're done with it and "go ride your bike" or whatever, that's a good way to ruin it's calibration. Always dial down the torque wrench to zero before going on your way or putting it away.


Interesting. So you're saying that if you put your torque wrench back in the tool box at a high setting, this can ruin it and then you will inadvertently overtorque in the future?


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

MMsRepBike said:


> The only thing that matters is doing the job correctly, and without a properly calibrated torque wrench you can't know if that's being done or not.


With things like compression plugs though, using a torque wrench and walking away from the job when you've reached a specified value is not doing a job correctly. Some plugs may still not be tight enough, others don't need to be that tight. Not debating the torque wrench-or-not issue, just saying to check your work even if you use a torque wrench everywhere.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Lombard said:


> Interesting. So you're saying that if you put your torque wrench back in the tool box at a high setting, this can ruin it and then you will inadvertently overtorque in the future?


Absolutely true for mechanical click-type wrenches. The spring that presses the ball into the detent can weaken over time and the wrench will no longer be dead accurate. (Doesn't apply to electronic strain gauge wrenches.).


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Lombard said:


> Interesting. So you're saying that if you put your torque wrench back in the tool box at a high setting, this can ruin it and then you will inadvertently overtorque in the future?


With our type of torque wrenches, the click type I call them, they will indeed lose their calibration. This actually will happen over time with use anyway, but if they're stored under load this can really hasten the process.

Our shop has our torque wrenches calibrated every year. We give them to a company that does it and gives them back all ready to go.


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## ghettocop (Apr 19, 2014)

tihsepa said:


> And you could not be more wrong.
> Thats like saying the stem needs to be pretty damn tight. Either the stem or the plug will cause steer tube damaged if they are over tightened.


 You are right. It is bad advice, and I should not have not been sarcastic and just provided basic torque values. I see an immense amount of incorrectly installed plugs/stems/topcaps at work and was just being flippant with the op.
I do have an experiment for you though......go to your shop and grab two warranty forks with carbon steerers........... put a compression plug in one and a stem n the other. Tighten them both with increasing force, and see what happens.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

double


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

I've got nothing to add, this thread is the way things should work. Question...answered. Confusion...clarified. Good additional info from MMsRep about how to properly tighten things. No bickering back and forth for days. 


Now if we could just figure out what to eat before a crit in So-Cal, there wouldn't be a worry in the world.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

If you aren't sure what torque values you need (no matter what part it is) check the specs with the manufacturer (in this case FSA, check here; Full Speed Ahead Bike Components). If you can't find them, check with Park Tool ( Park Tool Co. » ParkTool Blog » Torque Specifications and Concepts), they might not be perfect, but should be close. If those don't get it done, go to your LBS and ask. They'll tell you, this isn't secret info.


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## robnj (Sep 26, 2013)

Thanks for the vid post. Now I get it. 
The inner compression stack bolt is no more than 8Nm (I had 5Nm) and the top cap is more of adjust by feel. I was setting this to 5Nm, but I need to check for the bearing movement and not just torque.
I think I will slightly lube the spacers and I hear those can creak as well.


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## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

I never really has to tighten a headset cap that tight?

I would snug the stem cap bolt till there was no play when rocking the bike back and forth with the front brake applied...and I don't think it was anywhere close to 5nm.

Make sure is that the stem cap is not bottoming on the steerer tube. If thats happening...you won't be able to compress the headset all the way. When in doubt, add another spacer under the stem cap.


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## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

cxwrench said:


> I've got nothing to add, this thread is the way things should work. Question...answered. Confusion...clarified. Good additional info from MMsRep about how to properly tighten things. No bickering back and forth for days.


Thats cuz this thread is not in the specialized sub forum.......


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## robnj (Sep 26, 2013)

Went through the suggested procedure.
Still have a slight click at times, but much better. I can feel it is coming from the upper bearing. I guess I will have to head back to Performance at some point so they can look at it and if needed replace under warranty.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

robnj said:


> Went through the suggested procedure.
> Still have a slight click at times, but much better. I can feel it is coming from the upper bearing. I guess I will have to head back to Performance at some point so they can look at it and if needed replace under warranty.


Keep in mind that adjusting preload on threadless headsets is not like adjusting threaded headsets. You need to crank down on the cap bolt until the steering just starts to bind up, then back off a bit. In other words: exceed preload, then dial it back just a smidgeon. If you still get clicking using that procedure, there's something wrong with the headset.


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## robnj (Sep 26, 2013)

wim said:


> Keep in mind that adjusting preload on threadless headsets is not like adjusting threaded headsets. You need to crank down on the cap bolt until the steering just starts to bind up, then back off a bit. In other words: exceed preload, then dial it back just a smidgeon. If you still get clicking using that procedure, there's something wrong with the headset.


Got it. Will try again.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

robnj said:


> Got it. Will try again.


Grease. Every. Surface.


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## robnj (Sep 26, 2013)

Not having luck with eliminating the click entirely. Tried all the procedures. I notice that it is worse when the temps rise. Early AM ride, not really there, maybe 1 click when I first get on. When the bike sits in the hot garage all day, clicks a lot. When I climb/stand, in particular.

I took things apart more to see how this is put together. When I pulled off the upper bearing I saw a little fleck of bright metal on the bearing. Not sure where that came from, but looks like something is wearing improperly.

Only about 1500 miles on the bike so far since last October. Should be covered under Performances warranty (I hope). My only concern is with them removing the bearing race that sits in the carbon tube. Makes me nervous to think about screwing that up. I hope they are used to this, if it comes to replacing.


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