# Allez or not?



## ghughes.hesinc (Aug 29, 2009)

I'm currently riding my first road bike, a bottom of the line 2007 6r carbon Roubaix frame. The bike is fairly upgraded and I'm happy with the components.

I have been increasing my training and racing the last few years, and have come to a few conclusions. I should mention that i'm no feather-weight at 190lbs. The ride seems to be very smooth but I can't help but feel there is alot of flex in the frame and I'm losing a lot of efficency. Living in Michigan I don't have alot of fast downhill but at high speed (anything over 35mph.) the bike gets down right scary! The front end can get quite flexy.

I'm wondering if switching to a 2011 Allez comp frameset would be a good move? Let me know what you all think?


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## -dustin (Jan 11, 2009)

While the ride might not be quite as smooth (though, it's not like riding rocks), the frame will be noticeably more stiff. Its torsional stiffness is right there with the SL3 frame.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Aug 29, 2009)

Yeah, I don't mind giving up some compliance. It seems to me that between the E5 frame and the tapered head tube it has to be more stiff.

It also appears as though they did away with the carbon seat stays on the allez, not sure if thats good or bad.


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## -dustin (Jan 11, 2009)

good. carbon seatstays are gimmick.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Aug 29, 2009)

Does anyone have a weight for the Allez frameset?


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## Lou3000 (Aug 25, 2010)

If you are happy with your components and contact points, have you considered looking for a used Tarmac frameset?

The Roubaix should be pretty stiff for acceleration but is made to be more forgiving vertically to create a smoother ride, but the Tarmac is made for pro riders who put down more power than most on here could ever imagine. Even at 190lbs it should be plenty stiff.

Regardless, I rode an M4 frame for a long time (precursor to the E5) and aluminum may not be the fad right now, but a good aluminum frame (like the E5) can accelerate like no other. However, if you are used to a Roubaix, you might want to consider riding an aluminum Allez before making the jump. Carbon dampens vibrations so that your body absorbs less and you feel fresher on long rides. Aluminum does not dampen vibration, and sometimes feels like it will rattle your teeth fillings loose.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Aug 29, 2009)

Thanks Lou, yeah I've considered that but i'm a little leary of a used carbon frame.
And a new tarmac is out of the question price wise.

Thanks for your input on the ride differance, and I will test ride an Allez before I plunk down the cash on a frameset.

The frame is accually a 2007 Sirrus LTD, wich appears to be the same as the lower end Roubaix from that year. The BB deflection isn't too bad, but the whole front triangle is pretty flexy. When sprinting or hard cornering I can see and feel the HT twisting.


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## pwork (Feb 25, 2009)

I've got 2-3 hundred miles on my new Allez comp. The frame is down right fast in the sprints, climbs and corners very well, and goes where told. I'm coming from a Roubaix too where I needed the compliance to help get my back-back in shape from injury. Due to life, my time this year will be less tempo/pleasure/all day rides, and many more 1.5 hr interval/crits rides. This frame is perfect for the intended application. In addition, the frame will be cheaper to replace if I go down.

I've ridden both the 2011 Allez Comp and Tarmac Comp (all components except for the frame/fork the same) back to back. Both handle/sprint ~ the same, but the Tarmac has a noticable edge in the road noise dept. I haven't had any issues with my back on the Allez, even though 1/2 of my riding is on oil and chip surfaces; evidently Roubaix did its job and let me get my strength back.

BTW, I bought a Comp complete, but the only thing stock is the frame/fork, used the build kit for my wifes Stinky Pink Crux build. My bike is in the high 16's low 17's ready to ride (computer, speedplay Zero SS, cages) w/ a Red/Force/Ritchey AL/(Stans or Kinlin wheel) build (read: I left weight savings on the table for the future). Sorry, I didn't get a frameset weight as I was yanking components one at a time.


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## -dustin (Jan 11, 2009)

your wife already have the pink Crux? I've been waiting for them to show up in stock.


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## pwork (Feb 25, 2009)

-dustin said:


> your wife already have the pink Crux? I've been waiting for them to show up in stock.


 It is a 46 so that may explain the availability. It is obnoxious in a good way!


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## ghughes.hesinc (Aug 29, 2009)

pwork it sounds like you've got a pretty sweet build on your Allez. I'm glad to hear you're enjoying it.

I take it you didn't feel the differance in dampening was worth the price for the tarmac? Would you say the Allez is rough or is the Tarmac just that much smoother?


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## pwork (Feb 25, 2009)

Full disclosure: The wife and I own a small college town bike shop. I'm in the sport for fun, my wife likes to punish people(myself included). I do race, but I'm exactly average in MTB (due solely to tech skills) and on the lower end of the bell curve in CX and road! 

There are a few reasons I went with the Allez (some valid/some not so valid!):

1. One of my employees had an Gunner Roadie w/no carbon except for the fork. Weighed in the low 16's ready to ride...I've wanted to build a similar bike will very little/no carbon as a project. When the new Allez came out I was stoked, very happy with the results. Carbon components have been kept to a minimum.
2. Since we are a college town the demographic is for 2k bikes and lower. Wanted to show/prove that 1k bike is worthy of upgrades and what you could do with a non carbon frame to the kids. Responce as been great. I've sold 3 or 4 of these bikes, and they are all as happy as I am with the bike. (Apex is pretty sweet too)
3. We have a newborn and the wife likes to ride as much as me:thumbsup: . I won't be doing any centuries (metric or otherwise) for some time. I need to focus on intervals anyway as we'll probably be doing mostly crits next year, AL is fine for my application.
4. The Allez does ride well for a straight AL seat stay (especially compared to my old college AL frame), but the Tarmac is carbon and naturally dampens better, I just can't justify one right now. 
5. The savings went to the other upgrades. 
6. I am on the lower end of the Cat 5 spectrum, if there was a Cat 6 I'd be mid pack. I've seen some crazy stuff in the pack so far (riders with good fitness and piss poor handling), once I can hang with the pack, I'm sure it is not when but if I go down. The Allez will be easier on the pocketbook to replace. 

This bike is faster than me. As soon as I can justify the Cat up and/or have time for longer rides, I'll be on a Tarmac.


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## ghughes.hesinc (Aug 29, 2009)

Well said, it sounds like we have alot in common. Exept for the owning a bike shop thing and I have 3 young kids(2,4, and 6).

You should learn to love the EARLY morning ride, it's served me well!


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## blackjack (Sep 7, 2010)

ghughes.hesinc said:


> pwork it sounds like you've got a pretty sweet build on your Allez. I'm glad to hear you're enjoying it.
> 
> I take it you didn't feel the differance in* dampening* was worth the price for the tarmac? Would you say the Allez is rough or is the Tarmac just that much smoother?


The difference in any vibration damping, is in the tires. If you have an alloy frame you may hear the cables against the tubes or generally hear different sounds you associate with hard hits of uneven pavement, that you might not hear the same way with a frame of a different material.

There is much more compliance in a properly inflated, properly sized tire, than there is in any frame material. At your weight you can be riding on tires inflated at less than 90 psi and that will provide plenty of shock damping.

If you can fit a 28 rear on an Allez, that's what you should be riding on a 32 spoke or 36 spoke wheel. There is absolutely no point whatsoever to be riding around on a 24 spoke or less wheel, on a narrow tire at your weight.

It's kinda like these people who are riding low profile tires on Escalades. What is the point of that? Tire technology is the biggest advance in cycling, followed by pedal systems and indexed shifting. Frame materials, not so much.


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## pwork (Feb 25, 2009)

blackjack said:


> There is much more compliance in a properly inflated, properly sized tire, than there is in any frame material. At your weight you can be riding on tires inflated at less than 90 psi and that will provide plenty of shock damping.
> 
> If you can fit a 28 rear on an Allez, that's what you should be riding on a 32 spoke or 36 spoke wheel. There is absolutely no point whatsoever to be riding around on a 24 spoke or less wheel, on a narrow tire at your weight.


Agreed for the most part. I'm 140lbs and normally train on 25c armadillo's running 70 psi regardless of frame for it's overall ride. However, there is a difference in dampning of road noise with everthing else equal, the 2011 Tarmac Comp is smoother vs 2011 Allez Comp.


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## IAmSpecialized (Jul 16, 2008)

I'm riding a 2010 S-Works SL3, Sram Force and full Ritchey carbon cockpit with carbon railed Fizik Arione. Easton EC90 carbon clinchers. The bike is SMOOTH AS GLASS.

With that said, I've just bought a 2011 E5 Allez frame (love the white and blue scheme). Built it up with Rival shifters and brakes and Force for the rest of the drivetrain. It is super stiff. It sprints and accelerates like Mark Cavendish on cocaine. The ride was not as harsh as I expected, but it was light years from my SL3 (thought the Eastons helped a good deal).

When I built up the Allez frame originally I went with a Thompson seatpost and the rest was Ritchey aluminum for the cockpit to save a little money. I've just now changed out the cockpit it has made a huge difference for me in smoothing things out (relative to my S-Works). I put a Ritchey Carbon seat post with Fizik carbon railed Arione and a Ritchey superlogic handlebar. It will never ride like my S-works, but I am definitely happy with the Allez now. It is one hell of a crit bike. 

I think if you build up the Allez the right way, you can have a relatively smooth riding super stiff aluminum frame that is just insane in the sprints and acceleration. Just my .02


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## blackjack (Sep 7, 2010)

IAmSpecialized said:


> I'm riding a 2010 S-Works SL3, Sram Force and full Ritchey carbon cockpit with carbon railed Fizik Arione. Easton EC90 carbon clinchers. The bike is SMOOTH AS GLASS.
> 
> With that said, I've just bought a 2011 E5 Allez frame (love the white and blue scheme). Built it up with Rival shifters and brakes and Force for the rest of the drivetrain. It is super stiff. It sprints and accelerates like Mark Cavendish on cocaine. The ride was not as harsh as I expected, but it was light years from my SL3 (thought the Eastons helped a good deal).
> 
> ...


Were you tempted to change out one part at a time on your Allez to try to isolate the improvements. Eg. First changing the seatpost from alloy to carbon?


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## IAmSpecialized (Jul 16, 2008)

I wasn't really tempted to change one part at a time because there were really so few parts to look at changing. I knew I wanted a carbon seat post for my butt. I was already riding a carbon railed Arione and I knew how much it soaks up (even on my smooth S-works) so I basically knew I wanted both of those on the Allez. 

I considered a carbon stem, but I like my noncarbon Ritchey 73/17 stems. Last, I felt like there was a bit of front end buzz that I thought carbon bars would smooth out, and sure enough they did. The funny thing is on my SL3 I'm riding with an aluminum bar. 

I will say I think the carbon seat post and carbon railed seat take smooth things out equally. The post adds a little compliance that you don't get with aluminum post. The seat rails just make the ride under your butt feel more smooth.


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## supersquad4 (May 18, 2008)

What did the Allez comp frameset weigh? What does it weight built up with the force/rival mix? Any pics? I'm thinking about going the same route.
thanks


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