# 1st "Serious" Bike: Please rank my frame choices



## apn (Mar 1, 2012)

Hi all,

I'm an MTB refugee looking to transition into the road scene. I expect I'll be doing a few club rides, the odd century and/or Gran Fondo ride.

I mainly run a Santa Cruz Heckler on the trails, and I'm looking for a decent quality road rig that will eat up the miles without beating me up, yet perform when I need it to. Since I'm very familiar w/ Shimano on my other bikes, I'm leaning toward the Ultegra groupset.

Overall, I'm looking for something in the $3-3.5K range (full bike)

I've not test-ridden anything yet, but drew up the following shortlist from online research. The list is in no particular order, but I'd like to get some input to close on the top 3 best bang-for-the-buck options. Here's what I have;

- Scott CR1 Pro 
- Giant TCR Advanced SL3 
- Trek Madone 5.x (or 6.x if I can find another in the price range)
- Wilier GT 
- Cinelli Saetta 

What do you guys think of these, or is there anything better in the specified price range?

Thanks!


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

They're all fine. Test-ride test-ride test-ride. Bang for the buck on a road bike this expensive is very much a matter of opinion and perspective. They'll all be light. They'll all have a pretty good service life, at least for the frame, fork and components; some may have wheels that compromise durability for weight. So you need to figure out which frame feels the best and whether you're more interested in a prestigious brand name, a long service life, or something else.

"eat up the miles without beating me up" just means appropriate tires and appropriate tire pressure. The frame has a lot less to do with it than those of us looking for excuses to buy expensive things would like it to. If you're a bigger person, the default 23mm tires on a racing/training-oriented road bike, like those in your list, aren't going to make you very happy. You'll have to run them at maximum pressure to avoid pinch flats and the ride will be harsh.

Some posters define "bigger" as 180 lb or more. I don't weigh that and I'm quite happy with 23mm tires. (I also use 2.1s on my hardtail.) Some high-end racing bikes have clearance problems with bigger tires, even if bigger is only 25mm. So that can help you narrow down your choices.

If centuries and gran fondos are going to be long days in the saddle for you, you might also look in the endurance road class. (Sorry to add to your selection.) Off the top of my head, that means the Giant Defy and Specialized (and Fuji) Roubaix. The only users who might possibly be bothered by that style in terms of actual function would be people racing crits very competitively and people who need to put their handlebars very low to get a good fit. For club rides, it should be fine. While I'm somewhat doubtful of this, a lot of people claim they're more comfortable for long rides. But, between no advantage and a dubious advantage but nothing lost, I'll take the dubious advantage.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

IMO Andrew's got it covered, so all I have are a couple of reiterations and an addition to make... 

I think sitting at a computer researching is pretty much a prerequisite to making an informed buying decision, but until you get out, get sized/ fitted and ride some of the bikes, you'll have a tough time whittling down the field based on spec's alone.

I also agree that, given your intended uses, you should branch out some and consider relaxed geo bikes like those already mentioned. I tend to agree that the comfort aspects may be a bit over rated, but there are other differences you may prefer, like slightly slower steering/ handling. And their somewhat longer wheelbase (ideally linked to a slacker set tube angle) does tend to smooth out the ride a little, but IME tire construction, size and PSI matter more. That said, the bottom line is the same. Test ride, then decide which type of bike you prefer. 

Lastly, since you're looking at CF framesets, assuming you keep your bikes awhile, you might want to also factor manufacturers warranties in your decision. Not all are the same. For example, Giant and Trek have lifetime warranties on their frames, with Treks having a 5 year term on their forks. Scott's is 5 years on the frameset if the bike is inspected annually, otherwise it drops to 3 years. Wilier offers a 2 year term. I was unable to locate info on Cinelli's.


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## MojoHamuki (Feb 20, 2009)

american components, russian components, all made in taiwan


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

The only bike mentioned I can comment on directly is the Giant. I have a Defy Advanced-all carbon-all Dura Ace. I like it a lot. I'm riding across the country starting in April going from San Diego to Delaware. Despite the fact that I have 2 other very good bikes, I'm taking the Giant because it's more comfy over long distances. My other Bikes are a De Rosa steel bike that I bought new in 1994, and I also have a Specialized S works Roubiax. All 3 are great bikes, but for riding 80-100 miler per day for 3800+ miles??? I'll take the Giant.


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## apn (Mar 1, 2012)

Thanks for the input, guys.

The is my first CF purchase, so more than anything, I'm looking to confirm that I've not picked a lemon or brand that everyone but a rookie knows to avoid. I won't buy on research alone, but also don't have the time to test ride an exhaustive field, and some brands are not available locally.

All my choices are available locally, but sizing is not always optimal. I was at a LBS last night, looking at Scott's, but they had nothing >medium. I'm 6' so looking for a 56 frame, although one store suggested a 58 for my long inseam.

I can get to all but the Giant by hitting three local stores, so planning to make a few stops on Saturday. If the Giant dealer is on the route, I'll try to swing by there too, especially if they're known for comfort and carry good warranty.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Sizing bikes is tricky.

It doesn't match up to your height, your inseam, or really any other measurable part of your body, with enough accuracy to match you to a frame size.

Also, not all frame sizes are created equal. Trek has somewhat acknowledged this by having different described geometries on their site. (H1, H2, H3.)

For me, the most important aspect of bike size is reach. Often, it's okay to substitute effective top tube length because most bikes in the same class will have very similar seat tube angles. However, if the seat tube angle is changed a little bit, it can alter ETT and not reach.

Here's an article.

Revisionist Theory of Bicycle Sizing

As far as avoiding a lemon is concerned, you're pretty safe as long as you're looking at bikes sold in specialty stores other than Performance. Performance is probably fine too, but people sometimes aren't that happy with their store-brand frames, and they're extremely uneven about the level of help they can give you with buying a bike, and getting the right size. I guess that's true of other shops too, unfortunately. Maybe including the one that suggested sizing up for your inseam.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

AndrwSwitch said:


> SPerformance is probably fine too, but people sometimes aren't that happy with their store-brand frames, and they're extremely uneven about the level of help they can give you with buying a bike, and getting the right size. I guess that's true of other shops too, unfortunately. *Maybe including the one that suggested sizing up for your inseam. *


Yup, I was shaking my head on that as well. I'm not playing 'internet fitter' here, but generally speaking, it doesn't make sense to size up a rider based on inseam... or height, unless of course the posts minimum insertion line is visible on a smaller size.

IMO a 'better' example (to size up) would be to take advantage of a taller head tube, thus minimizing saddle to bar drop without resorting to compromises in stem angles. But that comes with compromises/ pitfalls as well (like extending reach), so IMO/E more needs to be considered before sizing up (or down for that matter). And as (I think) the OP alludes to, some sizes in a particular geo range aren't optimal for a given rider, bringing us back to the importance of test rides and whittling the field from there.


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## velocanman (Jul 15, 2011)

I recommend checking the manufacturer's web sites for their recommendations on sizing. Trek and Scott I am familiar with and their recommendations are good.

I ride a Scott CR1. I am 6'-2" with a 34.5" inseam. I formerly rode a XL/58 cm and upsized to a XXL/61cm frame. If the Scott CR1 is an option, I recommend trying a XL before deciding. Your flexibility, torso, and arm lengths are a factor and you might feel jammed up on the L. Or not.


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## triathlonandy (Feb 25, 2012)

I can sell you a brand new Scott Foil 20 size 56cm for 3500 shipped. I have it in the classifieds...PM me if you're interested..


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## triathlonandy (Feb 25, 2012)

or a Cervelo R3 for $3k.


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

MojoHamuki said:


> american components, russian components, all made in taiwan


Armageddon quote ... :lol:


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## bikesta (Dec 2, 2011)

Don't forget about the Specialized Tarmac SL3. You can find some slammin deals on a 2011 models. My friend purchased a 2011 Tarmac Expert (Ultegra) for $2,300 OTD from a LBS. In 2011, I purchased a 2010 Tarmac Pro (Dura Ace/Ultegra) for $3200 OTD. 

Post a picture of your new ride when you get it. Good luck on your search.


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## apn (Mar 1, 2012)

bikesta said:


> Don't forget about the Specialized Tarmac SL3. You can find some slammin deals on a 2011 models. My friend purchased a 2011 Tarmac Expert (Ultegra) for $2,300 OTD from a LBS. In 2011, I purchased a 2010 Tarmac Pro (Dura Ace/Ultegra) for $3200 OTD.
> 
> Post a picture of your new ride when you get it. Good luck on your search.


Thanks for the tip. I was chatting with a couple of guys at a spin class last weekend, one rides a Roubaix, the other a Tarmac, so I've added those to my list. Problem is, not many "S" dealers around my neck of the woods.

I also went back to the LBS pushing Wilier and Cinelli and didn't get a good feeling about it. Another LBS selling Trek/Cannondale seemed very honest;

1. Advised against Madone 6; too stiff for my needs.
2. Had a few bad words about the guy selling Wilier and Cinelli.
3. Suggested I look at Pinarello, which he didn't sell
4. Had some cautionary words about my local Pinarello dealer, but also gave me his email address and offered contacts to get a better deal at a couple of non-local dealers.

I also played with a Giant TCR Advanced, but since they didn't have an SL3 in stock, they gave me the Advanced 1 frame equipped w/ Ultegra Di2. I really enjoyed the latter, but not the $$$ premium. I'll wait for the technology to mature 

Based on the above plus a friend that has a Pinarello, I'm waiting for the local dealer to get a 2012 Quattro in stock (any day now...) to give it a try. In the meantime, I'm planning on taking a trip to a nearby Specialized dealer (used to own a StumpJumper; great MTB) this weekend while scouring the net for reviews.


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## Switchblade906 (Mar 4, 2012)

You could also do Cannondale

Here is the Supersix 4 Rival

And the Supersix 3 Ultegra


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## bikesta (Dec 2, 2011)

Test ride as many bikes and sizes to determine what feels the best to you. You are spending good money so ONLY purchase if you LOVE the way the bike rides. Do not settle.


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## jefflichty (Aug 22, 2011)

AndrwSwitch said:


> They're all fine. Test-ride test-ride test-ride.


this
....what one rider likes another won't...
i tried a few treks 1.5 and 2.1, also tried a specialized...(can't remember the model) and ended up getting a scott cause it felt better to me.


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## SurfSailRide (Mar 27, 2009)

AndrwSwitch said:


> "eat up the miles without beating me up" just means appropriate tires and appropriate tire pressure. The frame has a lot less to do with it...


Not sure I fully agree here. I went from an aluminum CAAD9 to a more relaxed, plusher carbon Specialized Roubaix. The ride characteristics between the two frames are black and white. At the time, I only had one set of parts/wheels, which were on the CAAD9, so I swapped the parts to the Roubaix, stem, saddle, wheels and all. As expected, the CAAD9 had been much snappier, with better acceleration characteristics than the Roubaix. But the vibration dampening characteristics of the Roubaix made longer rides far more comfortable - like night and day.

As others have mentioned, something a little more relaxed like a Roubaix may be your answer, unless you're competitively riding in crits.


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## tystevens (Jul 10, 2008)

I'd put the Spesh Roubaix and Felt Z series on your list. Like others have mentioned, sounds like the "plush' or 'endurance' geometry might be a good fit for your riding goals. Maybe the Cervelo RS, too, although it will probably be at the top of your budget.

Good luck!


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## murielalex (Feb 6, 2012)

For that price, you could do what I did and get a custom built Gunnar frame with Ultegra. I had similar goals as you, and the Sport model fit my needs, but I wanted it to fit my body perfectly as well. I know you're looking at carbon, but don't overrule the newer steel frames.


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## apn (Mar 1, 2012)

After riding a few machines, it came down to Specialized and Pinarello. I really liked the Roubaix and the Tarmac, but in the end I went with a Pinarello FP Quattro. I know this is not exactly a beginners bike, but I'm not exactly a beginner to bikes.

Thanks to a tip from Nicole Hamilton here on the forums, I got a pretty nice deal from Competitive Cyclist. Unfortunately, since it wasn't in stock, I have to wait a couple of weeks, and should have it by Easter.

In the meantime, I've registered for a couple of upcoming rides; a back-2-back pair of century's (out on Saturday, Hotel overnight, back on Sunday) in June and a single-day GranFondo century in July.

I'll post a few pics when the new rig comes in...


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## apn (Mar 1, 2012)

Well, the deed is done. I got this beast on "Good" Friday (4/6), which really lived up to it's name 

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/pinarello/new-2012-fp-quattro-277943-post3875072.html#post3875072

I can't say enough good things about Competitive Cyclist and CSR "JD" in particular for doing a great job rush ordering this and a few other goodies to me.


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## Squrkey (Mar 24, 2012)

Excellent Choice! You did your research, I hope you saved a ton of money.


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