# Newbie in the market for his first road bike! (Budget ~1k, many more details inside)



## amptrofa (Mar 19, 2012)

Hey guys, I'm new to the forum and pretty new to biking in general. I'm looking to purchase my first road bike, and I was hoping you guys would be able to give me a few pointers on some things. I'll try to make this as short as I can without leaving anything out.

*My, myself, and what I want from my bike.*
I'm a distance runner at heart, dealing with some injury issues that leave me with room for extra cross training. I'm looking to supplement my training with cycling, and eventually may decide to take my cycling farther with triathlons and such. My fitness is fairly high (I like to think) although not necessarily on the bike. I've been doing some biking on my Trek FX 7.1, about an hour most of the time, but I'm looking for something more appropriate for a bit more serious training. I'm thinking over the summer I may put something like 1-2k miles on this bike, riding mostly every day for a little bit with some occasional very long rides on the weekends. I may also use the bike to commute to work over the summer.

While my current needs for the bike are not very high performance I'd definitely like something with a bit of growing room. I have a real passion for endurance athletics, and I could see myself really getting into triathlons. I imagine if I do get more serious about cycling I'll grow out of this bike eventually, but with the potential of the future I may be willing to stretch my $1k budget a little if there is compelling reason to do so. Also, this budget is for the bike itself. I'm factoring accessories in separately.

*Edit:* After heading out and actually test riding some bikes, I've got a bit more direction and am mostly focusing on the bike itself (see post #12). If you have any good thoughts about other items below I'd still love to hear them though 

*Questions:* (And there are plenty)
So when I say I'm a newb I mean I'm a newb. I don't really know anything about road biking. Here a things I'm specifically curious to hear about:

*Manufacturer -* I hear that in my price range everything is essentially equivalent. Factoring in frame and other components, is there anyone that you would specifically recommend or recommend I stay away from? On this end, serviceability is a plus. The only direction I have here is the suggestion that Fiji may have a slightly better bike at this price point. Otherwise I'm just looking for fit.

*Fit -* No clue what I'm looking for, just that it's extremely important. Hopefully my LBS will be helpful, but if you have advice I'm all ears.

*Clipless Shoes/Pedals -* I've never ridden clipless before, but I'm definitely looking to. I've heard that there are loads of benefits for going with MTB shoes/pedals (and they're called SPD?) in terms of ease of use and walkability of the shoes. I think I'm leaning toward that, since this can easily be changed if I decide I want higher performance for racing down the line (and at that point I might be on a new bike altogether anyhow). Aside from type, any suggestions on brands or specific shoes?

*Aero Bars -* Considering getting some clip-on aero bars. They seem like a really good idea to me but I've read that they can mess up your fit on your bike and be a painful position to ride in. If you can convince me that they won't help, that's more money I can spend other places.

*Clothing -* From the limited looking I've done bike shorts seem to have cushion that is proportional to price. So I was thinking of picking up one really nice pair for long rides and a couple cheaper pairs so I wouldn't be riding around in running shorts all the time . What about jerseys? They seem to be a little pricey and I'm not quite sure what purpose they serve. Other than being aerodynamic and looking like a biker, why would I want a jersey? If I do get one, what should I look for (since I have no idea what's available).

*Maintenance -* What kinds of things should I do for my bike every ride/week/month/season/year? How much of this should I try to do myself and when should I pay someone else instead? I'm into trying to do my own repairs. I've already got the park tools Big Blue Book, but I'm far from an expert and tend to worry about the quality of my work. I really want to keep my bike in fantastic shape and have it serving me for years to come.

*Other Accesories -* I understand that there are a few things I need to carry along on each ride. Water bottle, perhaps some snacks and that sort of thing for longer rides. Also spare tube and a multitool. What should I look for in a multitool? Might I be better off with a patch kit vs spare tube? I'm extra clueless about this kind of stuff.

*The List*
So here's the list of thing's I've got in my mind about this purchase:



The bike itself - frame and components
Clipless Pedals/Shoes
Clip-on Aero Bars?
Onroad Repair Kit - Spare tube/patch kit, pump, multitool
Bike shorts, a couple pair
Perhaps a jersey or two
Water/Food Carrying - Perhaps a Camelbak?

Please let me know if there's anything I should be considering that I've forgotten!

Kudos to you if you made it through the entire post. And thanks in advance for the help everyone


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Wow. Some post but you are asking good questions. 

I'm on mobile so I will break it up some. 

Manufacturer: All the big brands offer good stuff but being a Specialized fan I would say take a look at an Allez. They can be had in your range and are great bikes. Aggressive which I am guessing you would like. Giant, Trek, Felt, Canondale, etc. all offer similar but the Allez might be the most aggressive. 

Pedals. I know some guys that use Spd mountain bike pedals. Personally I prefer the Shimano road pedals but not a big deal. 

Clothing. Shorts are personal taste. Not all cheap ones are bad. Never paid more than 30 but some will pay over a hundred. Try a brand or two and see what you like. My favorite is Descente. 

Jerseys are very useful not just for Aero and moisture picking but for the rear pockets. You will want a few things with you on a ride. I carry my phone, id, cash and a snack.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Fit: Go to a good lbs and get fitted. 
Aero bars: Hold on them at least initially. Most beginning riders don't even use the drops that much. 
What else? Seat bag, spare tube, multitool, Co2 inflation and cartridges. Gloves. Water bottles and cages.


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## amptrofa (Mar 19, 2012)

NJBiker72 said:


> Wow. Some post but you are asking good questions.


Haha. I can be a bit long winded, probably a little bit too much. Thanks for the response though!



NJBiker72 said:


> Manufacturer: All the big brands offer good stuff but being a Specialized fan I would say take a look at an Allez. They can be had in your range and are great bikes. Aggressive which I am guessing you would like. Giant, Trek, Felt, Canondale, etc. all offer similar but the Allez might be the most aggressive.


Great, I'll definitely keep an eye out for the Allez. Aggressive sounds good to me, but I'll have to see after a couple test rides.



NJBiker72 said:


> Personally I prefer the Shimano road pedals but not a big deal.


Any reason for the Shimano specifically?



NJBiker72 said:


> Aero bars: Hold on them at least initially. Most beginning riders don't even use the drops that much.


This is probably what I'll do. Is there anything I should try to keep in mind geometry/fit wise to make adding aero bars later more plausible?



NJBiker72 said:


> Seat bag... multitool, Co2 inflation and cartridges. Gloves.


What's the reason for gloves? I've had multiple people suggest them to me, but I'm not sure if I understand why I would want a pair. If it were cold, yes I understand that. But I'm probably only going to ride in fair weather.

CO2 was something I wasn't really considering over a pump, I didn't realize it was that mainstream. I'll definitely look at it.

Can anyone recommend good, well priced Seat Bags/multitools (or brands for either?). I'm big into durability.



I'll be heading out to an LBS or two today so I'll let you guys know what bikes I'm considering after that.


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

Bike:
Do test ride them before you decide. Take note of the geometry of the bikes of those you feel comfortable in ... 'Effective toptube' and seattube length and the length of the stem ... 
Try going into this site to get a rough idea of your size ...
Canyon | Roadbikes | Roadlite 6.0
Click on 'Calculate Framesize' then 'Adjust your bike to your body measures ...' It gives you an idea of what to look out for ...
There are a lot of material online. (Lookup inseam length)
I am not going to give you a brand as it is very subjective ...
For eg: if you fiind 2 bikes to your liking (fitwise and aesthetically) then compare the components that they have and you should be fine from there.

Pedals:
Unsure if all forums members here use Shimano and so they recommend Shimano ... I use Shimano and as they have served me well, there is no reason to change, unless due to weight ... (I am only coming from a MTB perspective as I am only using the SPD mtb)

Shorts:
Get a good pair of cycling shorts to prevent chaffing and basically pain the rear ... FWIW ... saddles may take a while to get used to so stick with it and the pain will most probably go away ... If you still do not get use to it after sometime (how long? you might ask ... depends on how frequent you ride) ... 30-40 miles per week for 2-3 months???

Gloves:
Mainly for proper grip/control and protection. At least go for the 'half fingers' if it is too warm. Helps too if you need to work on your bike out on the road ...

_... good luck ..._


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

amptrofa said:


> *Manufacturer -* I hear that in my price range everything is essentially equivalent. Factoring in frame and other components, is there anyone that you would specifically recommend or recommend I stay away from? On this end, serviceability is a plus. The only direction I have here is the suggestion that Fiji may have a slightly better bike at this price point. Otherwise I'm just looking for fit.


It's Fuji, and IMO they're no better or worse than some other brands/ models in this general price range. IME what usually separates a few makes/ models from others is fit, feel (of controls), ride and handling. 

Visit some LBS's, get sized/ fitted and head out on the road for some test rides. IME that's the best way the decide on your preferences and whittle the field from there. 

Since you mentioned endurance, I suggest test riding both race and relaxed geo bikes. The differences are subtle, but generally speaking, race bikes allow for a more aggressive (lower/ aero) rider position and have shorter wheelbases in part contributing to quick steering. Conversely, relaxed geo bikes allow for a slightly more upright rider position and have slightly slower (some say predictable) handling. You'll have to ride, then decide your preference.



amptrofa said:


> *Fit -* No clue what I'm looking for, just that_ it's extremely important_. Hopefully my LBS will be helpful, but if you have advice I'm all ears.


Yes, it is important. The steps I recommend you take are to seek out a reputable shop (or shops) that understands the importance of fit. Ask them to describe what their fit entails. The answer will provide some insight into the emphasis that shop places on fit. 

While it's good to be an educated consumer, the onus (for getting sizing right) should remain with the LBS (not you), but you should take a pro-active approach to the process by voicing your preferences/ opinions. 



amptrofa said:


> *Clipless Shoes/Pedals -* I've never ridden clipless before, but I'm definitely looking to. I've heard that there are loads of benefits for going with MTB shoes/pedals (and they're called SPD?) in terms of ease of use and walkability of the shoes. I think I'm leaning toward that, since this can easily be changed if I decide I want higher performance for racing down the line (and at that point I might be on a new bike altogether anyhow). Aside from type, any suggestions on brands or specific shoes?


If you're looking to commute and are concerned about 'walk-ability', SPD's are probably the better choice, but on one of your visits to the LBS, ask some questions about the pro's/ con's of road versus MTB systems. Re: shoes, there's no substitute for trying a few pairs on. What I love you might hate, and vice versa. 



amptrofa said:


> *Aero Bars -* Considering getting some clip-on aero bars. They seem like a really good idea to me but I've read that they can mess up your fit on your bike and be a painful position to ride in. If you can convince me that they won't help, that's more money I can spend other places.


My vote is to build some base miles/ endurance, then at some point assess your need for aero bars. I think the money can be better spent in other places.



amptrofa said:


> *Clothing -* From the limited looking I've done bike shorts seem to have cushion that is proportional to price. So I was thinking of picking up one really nice pair for long rides and a couple cheaper pairs so I wouldn't be riding around in running shorts all the time . What about jerseys? They seem to be a little pricey and I'm not quite sure what purpose they serve. Other than being aerodynamic and looking like a biker, why would I want a jersey? If I do get one, what should I look for (since I have no idea what's available).


My advice is to get a couple of pairs of moderately priced shorts and jerseys. Performance Bike runs sales on their Century (I think) shorts for around $30 and Classic jerseys (about $25). Their jerseys are as good (if not better) than some of my $70 jerseys. I just got a pair of their shorts (so, limited saddle time) but thus far they're fine.



amptrofa said:


> *Maintenance -* What kinds of things should I do for my bike every ride/week/month/season/year? How much of this should I try to do myself and when should I pay someone else instead? I'm into trying to do my own repairs. I've already got the park tools Big Blue Book, but I'm far from an expert and tend to worry about the quality of my work. I really want to keep my bike in fantastic shape and have it serving me for years to come.


Except for my annual 'tear downs', I do maintenance based on usage rather than time. Regularly clean/ lube the drivetrain and check tires/ tire pressure. As needed, clean braking surfaces/ pads. Occasionally check bearing assemblies (headset/ BB/ wheel hubs) for looseness/ play/ binding. Check chain/ cassette/ chain rings for wear. 

Park tools (among others) has a wealth of info on the topic of bike maintenance. After awhile, you'll get a sense for what needs to be done, when. 



amptrofa said:


> *Other Accesories -* I understand that there are a few things I need to carry along on each ride. Water bottle, perhaps some snacks and that sort of thing for longer rides. Also spare tube and a multitool. What should I look for in a multitool? Might I be better off with a patch kit vs spare tube? I'm extra clueless about this kind of stuff.


There's a thread going now about multi-tools. Check it out. I bring both a patch kit and a spare tube. Am a 'minimalist', so no pump, just CO2 (Innovations Ultraflate Plus) and tire levers. Cell phone goes in my jersey pocket.



amptrofa said:


> Kudos to you if you made it through the entire post. And thanks in advance for the help everyone


Each one of your topics could be (and has been) a thread on its own, so my answers did little more than just scratch the surface. While I commend you on your thorough approach, for future reference I suggest keeping questions to a minimum in each of your threads. Doing so tends to avoid overwhelming members.


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## triathlonandy (Feb 25, 2012)

The bike itself - frame and components *Have you looked at the Scott Speedster S50? Its not a bad entry-level bike for what you're looking to do and one of the lightest ones in its class at just under 20lbs with an aluminum frame and carbon alloy fork. Scott is a great brand and the frame comes with a 5-year warranty. You can usually find this bike at your LBS for around $700......$800 with pedals...$950 with aero bars, so you're looking at right around your $1000 budget...*

Clipless Pedals/Shoes *This can be personal preference, but the Speedplay Chromoly's are my favorite with Shimano TR31 triathlon shoes.*

Clip-on Aero Bars? *If you're going to get clip on aero bars, look into the Profile Design T1+ Aluminum aero bars, they're easy to put on and work pretty well.*

Onroad Repair Kit - Spare tube/patch kit, pump, multitool *You can find saddle bags anywhere. Serfas are good ones. Get yourself some spare tubes, search the forum for multitool threads for suggestions and definitely learn how to use the CO2 if you are considering getting one. But first learn how to change a tire if you don't know how to already... Oh and you will definitely need a floor pump too, if you do not have one already.*

Bike shorts, a couple pair *Yes! Get a good pair of bike shorts. Personally, ever since I started riding with bibs shorts, I've ridden with them ever since. They're a lot more comfortable to ride in than regular cycling shorts, but if you're getting into triathlons, try some tri specific shorts so you can get used to them. *

Perhaps a jersey or two *This is easy, you can find these anywhere...but cycling jerseys are always nice to have as they have pockets in the back. You want them tight, but not too tight, so it will give you a more aero fit. *

Water/Food Carrying - Perhaps a Camelbak? *Definitely gonna need these. Look into a FuelBelt bento box as well to store extra food, gels, tools, tubes, etc.*

There's also tons of info at What a triathlon beginner needs to get started: The Bike that will answer some of your questions better.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

amptrofa said:


> Haha. I can be a bit long winded, probably a little bit too much. Thanks for the response though!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No reason for the Shimano other than that they are common and work well. Really only have used them and mountain bike ones, so I do not have a good comparison. 

Never used Aero Bars, so no advice on a fit adjustment. I don't like to keep my hands that far from the brakes/shifters.

Gloves provide extra cushioning for your hands. Definitely a good thing. Also absorb sweat and give you a better grip.

CO2 is preferable to a light weight hand pump because you will have a tough time getting a pump up to 100 - 120 psi. 

Any seat bag will work, but try to find one that straps on. Not the clip on. I have seen people lose those while riding. Not good.

Also I prefer larger ones, even if not "cool". Rather keep more stuff in there than in the Jersey pockets. Specialized and Giant make decent ones but anything works.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

triathlonandy said:


> The bike itself - frame and components *Have you looked at the Scott Speedster S50? Its not a bad entry-level bike for what you're looking to do and one of the lightest ones in its class at just under 20lbs with an aluminum frame and carbon alloy fork. Scott is a great brand and the frame comes with a 5-year warranty. *


*
That's true, but in the interest of full disclosure, many other brands including Specialized, Trek and Giant come with limited lifetime warranties. 

Also, Scott will only honor the 5 year term if the bike is inspected annually by an authorized dealer, otherwise the term drops to 3 years.

Source:
Warning - SCOTT Sports*


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## rider9 (May 27, 2011)

amptrofa said:


> Haha. I can be a bit long winded, probably a little bit too much. Thanks for the response though!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Gloves serve two purposes. The first is they provide a cushion for your hands on the bars. Second, they are insurance when you wreck. I learned this the hard way and gloves are a good idea!

CO2 - I use a combination pump and CO2 device. Using the CO2 cartridges is a time saver for when you get a flat.

Accessories - bags etc. I bought a seat bag and it works for one of my seats. It doesn't work for the other. Watch for fitting on your bike seat and how the seat attaches. You want something to hold the stuff you normally ride with that attaches nicely to the seat or handlebar bag.

Stuff you should carry with you all the time: spare tube, levers, multitool, ID, cell phone, pump and or a CO2 cartridge dispenser, and I carry a small rag.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Anyone looking for the best bang for their buck, look for a used bike on craigslist. You can typically find like new bikes for 50% of new cost. Soooo many people think they're going to get into biking, spend hundreds-thousands on their bike, ride a few miles and then leave it in the garage.

But for the total noob, you may need the assistance of a good bike shop otherwise you could get duped buying a used bike.



amptrofa said:


> *Clothing -* From the limited looking I've done bike shorts seem to have cushion that is proportional to price.


 Good shorts are critical. They're the difference from enjoying a LONG ride and hating a short ride. 
Price and quality can be proportional but not always. Sometimes it's just hit or miss with what you find comfortable.



> What about jerseys? They seem to be a little pricey


 IMO they are almost ALWAYS over priced. Especially the ones with cool graphics and logos. You'd think they'd be cheaper since you're a personal billboard for them!
But I wouldn't ride without one. They breath and keep you dry(ish). Cycling jerseys have pockets in the back. If you don't need the pockets, you can wear other athletic type clothing like running gear.



> *Maintenance -* What kinds of things should I do for my bike every ride/week/month/season/year? How much of this should I try to do myself and when should I pay someone else instead?


 I'm a DIY'er so I never pay someone to do what I can. And most stuff on a bike isn't that hard to learn for someone who's handy.

Another reason... unless you're gonna carry a bike mechanic on your back, don't you want to know how to fix your bike when you're miles from nowhere?



> Might I be better off with a patch kit vs spare tube?


I always carry both. It's just so much easier to throw a new tube into a flat tire than fiddling with patches. Patches are small enough to carry for emergency backup though.

If you go with a co2 inflater rather than a pump, I strongly recommend carrying 2 or 3 cartridges. They only work for one tire. It's easy to screw up the inflation and waste a cartridge. Or get more than one flat.


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## amptrofa (Mar 19, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> It's Fuji, and IMO they're no better or worse than some other brands/ models in this general price range.


Lol, fail. Yeah I checked a couple out today and they didn't really seem to be anything special. Not that they were bad, they just didn't offer anything that I wasn't getting on other bikes.



PJ352 said:


> Each one of your topics could be (and has been) a thread on its own, so my answers did little more than just scratch the surface. While I commend you on your thorough approach, for future reference I suggest keeping questions to a minimum in each of your threads. Doing so tends to avoid overwhelming members.


Yeah I see the validity of that. Now that I've actually test rode some bikes I have much better direction and will mostly just be focusing on which bike to pick, the other things are a lot more mutable.



NJBiker72 said:


> Gloves provide extra cushioning for your hands. Definitely a good thing. Also absorb sweat and give you a better grip.





rider9 said:


> Second, they are insurance when you wreck. I learned this the hard way and gloves are a good idea!


I did not realize that the gloves were cusioned. Also, holding onto dropped bars is an awful lot different than the bars on my hybrid. After doing some test rides, I can see why gloves would be nice for a long ride. And while I'd rather not think about wrecking, that's a really good point.



tlg said:


> Anyone looking for the best bang for their buck, look for a used bike on craigslist...But for the total noob, you may need the assistance of a good bike shop otherwise you could get duped buying a used bike.


This is pretty much where I stand. Which is kinda a shame because going the used route would probably open me up to some nicer component options (although it would take more work to find something in decent shape and something that would fit me).



Ok, so today I went out to a few local LBS and test rode a few bikes. I rode a Trek 1.1, 2.1, Specialized Allez, Secteur, Cannondale CAAD 9, Six, a Masi, a Bianchi, and Fuji 3.0 and 2.0.

I was a fan of the Allez at first, but I think I like the Cannondales a bit more. The CAAD 9 and Six were basically the exact same setup, and the Six was only $200 more. I think they were full Tiagra components. So it seems like if I'm going to get the CAAD I may as well get the Six instead. I also liked the Masi, especially for the price point it was in. It was only $700, but was probably Sora components (might have been Tiagra rear, in which to me seems more important than the front).

Right now it's basically between one of the Cannondales and the Masi in my mind. I still have more searching to do though, and I think I'll have a more organized approach for tomorrow (ie calling ahead to see what people have...). I was cautioned against Cannondale for their rough ride, something that wasn't really a factor on the short test rides I was doing. There seem to be plenty of people that are happy with Cannondale however, what do you guys think about the road noise factor? I feel like this is the kind of thing that I might never realize was bothering me until I got a smoother bike (supposing I were to go Cannondale).

I was kinda disappointed at the lack of variety I saw. Basically I saw a moderate Specialized/Trek selection, a good variety of Cannondales, and a smattering of other options. I've got a couple more shops to check out, but I think I already know which one I'll buy from, both because they have the bikes I liked most and they're the most convenient location (unless I find something I love somewhere else). I was also kinda disappointed by the lack of attention to fit, although perhaps more serious fitting would be done if I actually went to purchase a bike, instead of just testing a bunch out.

About components: since I don't notice a huge difference between frames, I'd be really interested in just about any bike in the prince range with better components. I'm seeing reviews of people picking up comparable frames with MUCH nicer components for just a couple hundred bucks more than what I'm looking at, but I'm not finding that at my shops. I've heard that 105 is a big jump that I should try to get if I can and then I've also heard that it's not that big a deal. What do you guys think?

Finally, I'll be heading out again tomorrow to look at some more bikes. Specifically I'm trying to find some Felt stuff since my friend has a Felt that think is pretty nice. Anyone have another make that they think I should definitely take a look at?


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

On components I do think 105 is a step up but greatly prefer Sram. Personal preference but lighter for pinpoint and double tap is a preferable system once you get used to it. jmho


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

amptrofa said:


> I'd be really interested in just about any bike in the prince range with better components. I'm seeing reviews of people picking up comparable frames with MUCH nicer components for just a couple hundred bucks more than what I'm looking at, but I'm not finding that at my shops. I've heard that 105 is a big jump that I should try to get if I can and then I've also heard that it's not that big a deal. What do you guys think?


I was kinda in your shoes last year. I got back into road riding after 20+ years. (Wow has road bike technology changed) 
I picked up a used Trek with Tiagra shifters and a 105 rear deraileur. I think it's the minimum for a decent road bike on a budget. I had absolutely zero issues with shifting. Shifting was crisp, accurate, and maintained position. I couldn't come up with a single comlaint.
This year I upgraded to a new bike with all Ultegra components. To be honest, shifting is virtually identical to the Tiagra. There's sublte difference but nothing significant. Surely not a "big jump" 

If you can get better components in your budget, go for it. But I wouldn't let it be that big of a factor. Go for overall fit and comfort.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

tlg said:


> I was kinda in your shoes last year. I got back into road riding after 20+ years. (Wow has road bike technology changed)
> I picked up a used Trek with Tiagra shifters and a 105 rear deraileur. I think it's the minimum for a decent road bike on a budget. I had absolutely zero issues with shifting. Shifting was crisp, accurate, and maintained position. I couldn't come up with a single comlaint.
> This year I upgraded to a new bike with all Ultegra components. To be honest, shifting is virtually identical to the Tiagra. There's sublte difference but nothing significant. Surely not a "big jump"
> 
> *If you can get better components in your budget, go for it. But I wouldn't let it be that big of a factor. Go for overall fit and comfort.*


+1 on the bold statement. IME fit equates to comfort which translates into performance. Conversely, riding in discomfort, does not. 

As I often say, most any groupset set up and tuned correctly will perform well, so it's generally not (as was stated) a big jump in performance going up the model line. As long as gearing matched the riders fitness/ terrain, I think 9 speed Tiagra would fulfill most recreational riders requirements. 

That said, I suggest focusing on the frameset, because you're apt to have IT longer than the components that bolt to it. And the geo dictates fit, handling and (to some extent) ride, so try to focus on those facets during test rides.

I agree that Felts are worth a look, as are Giant and Jamis, the latter having some nice steel offerings.


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## amptrofa (Mar 19, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> I suggest focusing on the frameset, because you're apt to have IT longer than the components that bolt to it. And the geo dictates fit, handling and (to some extent) ride, so try to focus on those facets during test rides.


This is advice I really want to take, the problem is I hardly feel any difference between different frames. And when I do, a seat adjustment usually takes the issues away. Now that doesn't mean I'm actually fitting right on all the bikes, just that on a short test ride I don't notice the problems. This is making it really hard to be critical of the bikes I'm test riding, and I'm not sure what (if anything) I can do to try and fix it.


It's comforting to hear that the consensus seems to be that Tiagra will do fine. I'll stop worrying about it so much but still keep an eye out for something in my price range with upgraded components.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

amptrofa said:


> This is advice I really want to take, the problem is I hardly feel any difference between different frames. And when I do, a seat adjustment usually takes the issues away. Now that doesn't mean I'm actually fitting right on all the bikes, just that* on a short test ride I don't notice the problems*. This is making it really hard to be critical of the bikes I'm test riding, and* I'm not sure what (if anything) I can do to try and fix it*.


Take longer rides... out on the roads. Where possible climb, descend, find some curvy/ undulating roads and put the bikes through their paces. Granted, you're doing this on bikes that haven't been tweaked for fit, but the longer your ride, the more likely idiosyncrasies (and your preferences) will become apparent. 

If all else fails, buy the bike that you like best from the shop that you like best... and preferably emphasizes the importance of fit.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

amptrofa said:


> This is advice I really want to take, the problem is I hardly feel any difference between different frames........ This is making it really hard to be critical of the bikes I'm test riding, and I'm not sure what (if anything) I can do to try and fix it.


I wouldn't worry so much about it. You're never going to fully know what you want and what you like until you bite the bullet, buy a bike, and get out and ride.

If the bike is the right size for you, there's quite a bit you can do adjustment wise to tune it in to you. Which can take time to dial in right.

This is why it's important to get a decent entry level bike, but not break the bank on it. You want the bike good enough that you'll enjoy riding it. And not too expensive, that when you find out you REALLY like the sport, you can sell it and upgrade to something else that suits your needs better and not loose too much on it.


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## amptrofa (Mar 19, 2012)

Alright guys, I think I've decided what bike I'm going to get. I checked out an '11 Felt F85 today and I instantly loved it. I can just throw the bike around, it does what I want, and I feel right at home on top of it. There are plenty of bikes I've ridden in the past couple days that I like, but this was the only one that just "felt" right (I'm so sorry for that pun).

The only issue was that the Felt comes with Microshift shifters. It's got 105 derailleurs and cassette, which was better than anything else I was looking at, but I was told that the microshift shifters were highly dubious. I poked around online a little and the reviews are mixed enough that I think Microshift vs. Tiagra (most of what I was looking at) isn't worth agonizing over. And I actually like the way the microshift mechanism works, although I'll agree with anyone who says they're loud shifters, which could be a sign of general chunkiness.

Since the Felt is only $880 and was probably my favorite bike, in terms of both frame AND components, I basically stopped looking at most of the slightly more expensive bikes I was considering. I went back to check out the cheap Masi that I had seen yesterday though. They had the same frame I was looking at with some better components (nicer wheels and Tiagra rear derailleur), and they said they'd upgrade the Sora shifters to Tiagra for me for the same price as the Felt. I was really considering it, since there's something about the Masi that I really like (its an '11 Alare, really beautiful to look at, and I think it would have been even nicer with blue bar tape), but the bike just felt a little clunkier than the Felt. In the end, everyone was telling me to go with the bike that felt the best, especially in my price range, so I decided the Felt was the better option. Plus, I think I'm getting a much nicer frame with the felt. The Masi definitely would have gotten the job done, but I think the Felt can go pretty far for me if I want to take it there. And to top it off I think the shop with the Felt will do slightly more fitting for me than the one with the Masi.

I'm also planning on going with SPD pedals/shoes. There's a lower end pair of Specialized shoes that I really liked. I tried on some more expensive ones but I found these the most comfortable.

Now I'm just looking more into accessories, mostly tools to carry on the road. I'm totally on board with having a nice big, stuffed, wedge. I heard that sometimes your legs can hit them though, and that's something that I know would peeve me pretty hard.

I'd still love to hear anyone's thoughts, since I haven't purchased anything yet. Thanks for the help guys.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

amptrofa said:


> Alright guys, I think I've decided what bike I'm going to get. *I checked out an '11 Felt F85 today and I instantly loved it. I can just throw the bike around, it does what I want, and I feel right at home on top of it. There are plenty of bikes I've ridden in the past couple days that I like, but this was the only one that just "felt" right* (I'm so sorry for that pun).


See? Once you find 'the one', there really is a perceptible difference in the fit and feel of some bikes. :thumbsup:



amptrofa said:


> The only issue was that the Felt comes with Microshift shifters. It's got 105 derailleurs and cassette, which was better than anything else I was looking at, but I was told that the microshift shifters were highly dubious. I poked around online a little and the reviews are mixed enough that I think Microshift vs. Tiagra (most of what I was looking at) isn't worth agonizing over. And I actually like the way the microshift mechanism works, although I'll agree with anyone who says they're loud shifters, which could be a sign of general chunkiness.


From what I've read, Microshift shifters get predominantly positive reviews, so I wouldn't fret over them. Some models are marketed by Performance Bike and Nashbar, so if you're interested, you could look over the customer reviews on those sites.



amptrofa said:


> Since the Felt is only $880 and was probably my favorite bike, in terms of both frame AND components, I basically stopped looking at most of the slightly more expensive bikes I was considering.
> 
> In the end, everyone was telling me to go with the bike that felt the best, especially in my price range, so I decided the Felt was the better option. Plus, I think I'm getting a much nicer frame with the felt. The Masi definitely would have gotten the job done, but I think the Felt can go pretty far for me if I want to take it there. And to top it off I think the shop with the Felt will do slightly more fitting for me than the one with the Masi.


If the Felt suites your purposes, fits/ feels the best and is within budget, I agree that it makes little sense to look at more expensive offerings. And it's no small thing if the LBS is also your preferred shop, because they'll be a valuable resource now and into the future. 



amptrofa said:


> I'm also planning on going with SPD pedals/shoes. There's a lower end pair of Specialized shoes that I really liked. I tried on some more expensive ones but I found these the most comfortable.


Shoes, helmets and saddles are all highly personal, but FWIW I'm very happy with my Spec shoes. Most (if not all) models include a metatarsal button and built in wedge to prevent a couple of the more common fit issues. I use road shoes/ pedals, but given you intended uses I think SPD's make more sense, so good choice! 



amptrofa said:


> Now I'm just looking more into accessories, mostly tools to carry on the road. *I'm totally on board with having a nice big, stuffed, wedge.* I heard that sometimes your legs can hit them though, and that's something that I know would peeve me pretty hard.
> 
> I'd still love to hear anyone's thoughts, since I haven't purchased anything yet. Thanks for the help guys.


I'm a minimalist, but there's nothing wrong with bringing along more rather than less. It's all personal preference and the type of riding you'll be doing.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

amptrofa said:


> Alright guys, I think I've decided what bike I'm going to get. I checked out an '11 Felt F85 today and I instantly loved it.


 Makes it a lot easier to choose when you get the warm fuzzy feeling!



> I can just throw the bike around, it does what I want, and I feel right at home on top of it.


 I'm wondering if it's the weight of the bike. The F85 has a claimed weight of 19.41lbs. Under 20lbs for a $1000 bike is pretty good. 
The Fuji 3.0 and 2.0 are 24.10# & 23.9#. 
Trek 2.1 is about 23#



> The only issue was that the Felt comes with Microshift shifters. It's got 105 derailleurs and cassette, which was better than anything else I was looking at, but I was told that the microshift shifters were highly dubious.


 Doesn't appear to be an issue. 4 Stars with 18 reviews.
Find Road Bike Shifters: The Best Bike Derailleurs/ Shifters From Performance Bike



> I poked around online a little and the reviews are mixed enough that I think Microshift vs. Tiagra (most of what I was looking at) isn't worth agonizing over. And I actually like the way the microshift mechanism works, although I'll agree with anyone who says they're loud shifters, which could be a sign of general chunkiness.


Worst case, if you don't like them after a while, sell the shifters on ebay (used microshiters sold for $85) and pick up a set of 105's. $160 (new) on ebay. You could probably get a good set of used 105's or Ultegra's for around $100.
New Shimano 105 ST-5600 / ST-5601 2x10 STI Shifters | eBay
Or, ask the LBS if they'd swap them out with 105's for a few $$$.




> Since the Felt is only $880


The MSRP on it was $1099. $880 is a good price but not spectacular. But it seems you've got a really helpful LBS and they've more than earned it. 



> I'm also planning on going with SPD pedals/shoes.


 For the average joe, you can't go wrong with SPD's. The only thing with mountain shoes, is some brands/models can be quite HEAVY. Like bricks on your feet.



> Now I'm just looking more into accessories, mostly tools to carry on the road. I'm totally on board with having a nice big, stuffed, wedge.


Be cautious of big bags. They can be loose and floopy. Nothing more annoying than cranking away on your bike and having a bag rattle and flop around.
I'd suggest get all your tools first, then get the smallest bag that'll fit them all.

The only tools you should NEED is 
Multitool (with built in chain tool). 
Tire levers (sometimes included with multi tool)
Spare tube (prefered but not required)
Patches.
Pump or CO2 inflater.

I fit all that including two CO2 cartridges, some wet naps, bandaids, and gauze in a small wedge.


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## amptrofa (Mar 19, 2012)

So I bought the bike yesterday and rode it the 14 miles home. I'm really happy with it. The only issue I noticed was that the chainring wobbles a little bit. I'm sure that some amount of wobble is to be expected with any quality parts, and that in my price range even visible wobble is the norm, but just at one point the chain rubs against the front derailleur a little bit. I'm planning on riding it back to the lbs in an hour or so and having them adjust it. I could probably do it myself, but I'd just rather have everything on my new bike professionally done.

Other than that I think I've got myself nicely geared up. Picked up a pair of shorts and a jersey yesterday, ordered 3 more jerseys and 2 more pair of shorts as well. I've got a wedge with levers, spare, patch kit, co2, multitool (with chain tool), presta/schrader adapter, maybe something else I forgot. Also grabbed an inexpensive cyclocomputer with cadence. All told I've spent around $1500-1600, which is about what I expected ($1500 was the number I had in my head).



PJ352 said:


> See? Once you find 'the one', there really is a perceptible difference in the fit and feel of some bikes. :thumbsup:





tlg said:


> Makes it a lot easier to choose when you get the warm fuzzy feeling!


Yes, definitely. Part of me feels like with some good fitting a few of the bikes I tried out might have given me the same feeling, but hey, I'm not going to complain about finding one that just fit to start with.



PJ352 said:


> From what I've read, Microshift shifters get predominantly positive reviews, so I wouldn't fret over them. Some models are marketed by Performance Bike and Nashbar, so if you're interested, you could look over the customer reviews on those sites.





tlg said:


> Doesn't appear to be an issue. 4 Stars with 18 reviews.
> Find Road Bike Shifters: The Best Bike Derailleurs/ Shifters From Performance Bike
> 
> 
> ...


I poked around a little more after reading this, and I'm finding even more positive stuff. I think I'm using the un-named 10 speed shifters, I think these, and they do seem to be quite alright. I did NOT realize I could get 105s so inexpensively on Ebay, so I'm pretty happy with the decision considering I have some options that won't break the bank even if I do decide to ditch microshift. But for now I'm really happy with the shifts. The only thing that irks me is it seems to be _three_ shifts up to my large chainring and two down to the small one. I'm not sure what to make of that.



PJ352 said:


> I'm a minimalist, but there's nothing wrong with bringing along more rather than less. It's all personal preference and the type of riding you'll be doing.





tlg said:


> Be cautious of big bags. They can be loose and floopy. Nothing more annoying than cranking away on your bike and having a bag rattle and flop around.
> I'd suggest get all your tools first, then get the smallest bag that'll fit them all.
> 
> The only tools you should NEED is
> ...


I'm using a Topeak medium bag. If I rearrange what I have in there now I'll probably be able to fit a few more things in. I like the fact that it expands if I decide I need to take more along, but as it is now it's just "medium". It sticks out from the back of my seat maybe an inch and a half, but my seat is scooted forward just a hair, which could change as I get used to the riding position.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

amptrofa said:


> So I bought the bike yesterday and rode it the 14 miles home. I'm really happy with it.


Congrats! I've never been able to ride a bike off the showroom floor.



> The only issue I noticed was that the chainring wobbles a little bit. I'm sure that some amount of wobble is to be expected with any quality parts, and that in my price range even visible wobble is the norm,


Nooooo! Not the norm. I've never had chainring wobble on ANY level of parts. *Check the bolts before you ride it back to the LBS!* You don't want them falling off while riding. 



> but just at one point the chain rubs against the front derailleur a little bit.


This is normal. Usually it can be adjusted away (but not always). Also make sure you're not cross chaining. That's usually the biggest culprit.



> I've got a wedge with levers, spare, patch kit, co2......
> All told I've spent around $1500-1600


I strongly suggest you pick up a couple extra co2 cartridges and practice inflating your tires at home a few times. They can be tricky to use till you know how. Last thing you want to do is be miles from home and waste all your co2 fiddling around with them.

$1500... I say you did well.



> I'm using a Topeak medium bag


Good choice. You won't look like a total noob.


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## amptrofa (Mar 19, 2012)

tlg said:


> Nooooo! Not the norm. I've never had chainring wobble on ANY level of parts. *Check the bolts before you ride it back to the LBS!* You don't want them falling off while riding.
> 
> This is normal. Usually it can be adjusted away (but not always). Also make sure you're not cross chaining. That's usually the biggest culprit.


Maybe wobble is not quite the right word. If the chain only rubs at one point, that's what I was calling wobble. As in, the chainring is not mounted perfectly parallel to the forward direction, so as it rotates it appears to wobble a little bit. Nothing seems loose at all (I will double check though).

I recognized the rubbing by the noise. First I figured out that it only happened at one exact point in the... uhh, I'll call it the stroke? lol. Anyway, it took me a while to figure out what was causing it, but I don't think its cross chaining.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

amptrofa said:


> So I bought the bike yesterday and rode it the 14 miles home. I'm really happy with it. The only issue I noticed was that* the chainring wobbles* a little bit. I'm sure that some amount of wobble is to be expected with any quality parts, and that in my price range even visible wobble is the norm, but just *at one point the chain rubs against the front derailleur a little bit. I'm planning on riding it back to the lbs in an hour or so and having them adjust it*. I could probably do it myself, but I'd just rather have everything on my new bike professionally done.
> 
> Other than that I think I've got myself nicely geared up. Picked up a pair of shorts and a jersey yesterday, ordered 3 more jerseys and 2 more pair of shorts as well. I've got a wedge with levers, spare, patch kit, co2, multitool (with chain tool), presta/schrader adapter, maybe something else I forgot. *Also grabbed an inexpensive cyclocomputer with cadence. *All told I've spent around $1500-1600, which is about what I expected ($1500 was the number I had in my head).


You're right that chainrings don't always run perfectly straight, but if there's enough of a wobble that at one point it causes chain rub, it's excessive and needs to be remedied at your LBS. Could be a simple straightening required, or (less likely, IMO) a warranty issue.

Good decision to get a computer with cadence function. Read up on the topic, focus on smoothing the pedal stroke and you'll be more likely to have better form on the bike right from the start - and your knees will thank you. 



amptrofa said:


> Yes, definitely. Part of me feels like with some good fitting a few of the bikes I tried out might have given me the same feeling, but hey, I'm not going to complain about finding one that just fit to start with.


I agree. No reason to fight success if a bike fits well 'out of the box'. I think it 'tells' you that the geo suites the rider.



amptrofa said:


> I poked around a little more after reading this, and I'm finding even more positive stuff. I think I'm using the un-named 10 speed shifters, I think these, and they do seem to be quite alright. I did NOT realize I could get 105s so inexpensively on Ebay, so I'm pretty happy with the decision considering I have some options that won't break the bank even if I do decide to ditch microshift. But for now I'm really happy with the shifts. *The only thing that irks me is it seems to be three shifts up to my large chainring and two down to the small one. I'm not sure what to make of that.*


When you bring your bike back to the LBS, have then demonstrate the operation of the shifters. It's possible that what you're interpreting as shifts are the trim function, which you employ to minimize chain rub.


amptrofa said:


> I'm using a Topeak medium bag. If I rearrange what I have in there now I'll probably be able to fit a few more things in. I like the fact that it expands if I decide I need to take more along, but as it is now it's just "medium". It sticks out from the back of my seat maybe an inch and a half, but my seat is scooted forward just a hair, which could change as I get used to the riding position.


I wouldn't sweat aesthetics. If the bag holds what you need it to, you're good to go. But you're right, your fit will likely evolve as you build saddle time and fitness/ flexibility improve.

All in all, I think you did very well. Congrats on the new bike and keep us posted with any updates.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

amptrofa said:


> Maybe wobble is not quite the right word. If the chain only rubs at one point, that's what I was calling wobble. As in, the chainring is not mounted perfectly parallel to the forward direction.


 Oh ok. You need it checked out. The chainring may be bent or as you mentioned not mounted perfectly parallel. It's still not normal. Do all the rings do this or just one?



> I recognized the rubbing by the noise. First I figured out that it only happened at one exact point in the... uhh, I'll call it the stroke? lol. Anyway, it took me a while to figure out what was causing it, but I don't think its cross chaining.


 Another cause of derailleur rub can be frame flex. All frames flex. Some more than others. Especially if you're a bigger rider. Sometimes your derailleur is perfectly aligned and no rubbing. Then you stand and crank hard and it will rub with each power stroke.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

tlg said:


> I strongly suggest you pick up a couple extra co2 cartridges and practice inflating your tires at home a few times. They can be tricky to use till you know how. Last thing you want to do is be miles from home and waste all your co2 fiddling around with them.


I don't find using CO2 tricky at all, but agree that no matter the method of inflation practicing flat repair at home is wise.

OP: If your inflator accepts unthreaded carts I suggest getting a box at Walmart. Far cheaper than the LBS's.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

amptrofa said:


> Maybe wobble is not quite the right word. If the chain only rubs at one point, that's what I was calling wobble. As in, the chainring is not mounted perfectly parallel to the forward direction, so as it rotates it appears to wobble a little bit. Nothing seems loose at all (I will double check though).
> 
> I recognized the rubbing by the noise. First I figured out that it only happened at one exact point in the... uhh, I'll call it the stroke? lol. Anyway, it took me a while to figure out what was causing it, but I don't think its cross chaining.


If the chain rub is consistent with where the chainring goes out of true, the ring needs to be checked/ straightened.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> I don't find using CO2 tricky at all


Not all inflaters are the same... or as good. Some have triggers others don't. 
The first time I used mine, I wasn't familiar with how the chuck was supposed to fit on the stem. The instructions sucked. I opened it up and pffttttt 1 second later the whole cartridge (my only one) vented to atmosphere. 
Luckily I was about 1/2mi from home.


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## amptrofa (Mar 19, 2012)

On the chainring/rubbing: It's definitely NOT frame flex. Not only am I a small rider, but the rubbing happens even when I'm off the bike. It's VERY subtle, but you can see contact of a couple links against the derailleur. I'm definitely bringing it to the bike shop in a few minutes, still planning on riding unless I look at the chainring and something seems really off.

While I'm at the shop I'll ask them about the shifters. I'm pretty sure the're of the kind that are set up for a triple, so when I was test riding the bike I didn't realize that I was getting three clicks on the way up, and two seemed normal to me. One of the clicks is certainly trim, but I'll just have them explain it to me so I know exactly what's going on.

And as for co2, my inflator is threaded. I've been eyeing some of the 16/25/30 boxes at Amazon that come out to about $1/cartridge, which seems like a reasonable deal.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

tlg said:


> Not all inflaters are the same... or as good. Some have triggers others don't.


I agree, thus the need to practice beforehand.

Re: the type of inflator, I highly recommend Innovations Ultraflate Plus:
Amazon.com: Innovations Ultraflate Plus CO2: Sports & Outdoors

I've experienced more problems using mini-pumps. As always YMMV.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> I agree, thus the need to practice beforehand.
> 
> Re: the type of inflator, I highly recommend Innovations Ultraflate Plus:


I'm a minimalist. I use...
Amazon.com: Genuine Innovations Nano Microflate Inflator (Yellow): Sports & Outdoors
It works great. But there is a knack to it.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

tlg said:


> I'm a minimalist. I use...
> Amazon.com: Genuine Innovations Nano Microflate Inflator (Yellow): Sports & Outdoors
> It works great. But* there is a knack to it*.


Yes, there is a knack to using that type of inflator. I'm also a minimalist and use the Specialized mini-wedge. Get all I need in it.. just barely.


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## alien4fish (Mar 3, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> If the chain rub is consistent with where the chainring goes out of true, the ring needs to be checked/ straightened.


X2 There should be NO wobble at all on a brand new bike, I would back take to where you purchased it right away and let them know so they can replace it(if necc.) or straighten it. that could be a problem if you are running at speed, that would be super annoying for me. Congrats on the bike BTW:thumbsup:
I ended up with with Fuji 3.0


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