# Pistorious Substance Revealed



## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

The substance found in Pistorius's apartment has been identified:

_South African police say they found needles in Pistorius’s bedroom along with the substance, which they initially named as testosterone. Prosecutors later withdrew that statement identifying the substance and said it had been sent for laboratory tests.

Pistorius family spokesperson Lunice Johnston said in an email to The Associated Press on Wednesday that the athlete’s lawyers confirmed that the substance is Testis compositum.
_
Oscar Pistorius’s team names substance found in bedroom initially called ‘testosterone’ | Toronto Star

Does anyone anything about "Testis compositum?"


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Looks like a garden variety herbal. Ingredients are theoretically nada, provided that's what the contents are inside.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

supposedly for treatment of different male sexual disorders. 
Explains the guns too :-D


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## Robert1 (Mar 27, 2012)

Even if he was on test so what. Lots guys out there on test and steroids and many abusing it but they don't go around killing people.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Robert1 said:


> Even if he was on test so what. Lots guys out there on test and steroids and many abusing it but they don't go around killing people.


OJ Simpson?


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## Robert1 (Mar 27, 2012)

The point being is that it's not the test that turns one into a killer. Sure, of course there are examples of a killer being on test, or whiskey, or Ibuprofen for that matter. But taking test, drinking whiskey, or taking Ibuprofen doesn't turn you into a killer. Let's not make excuses for anyone.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Robert1 said:


> The point being is that it's not the test that turns one into a killer. Sure, of course there are examples of a killer being on test, or whiskey, or Ibuprofen for that matter. But taking test, drinking whiskey, or taking Ibuprofen doesn't turn you into a killer. Let's not make excuses for anyone.


Fair enough, I was making a joke and really couldn't think of another athlete who killed someone (lately).

Provided the substance was really Testis compositum, it really shouldn't contain testosterone or anything that would effectively raise testosterone levels despite the claims it might make to do so.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

Robert1 said:


> The point being is that it's not the test that turns one into a killer. Sure, of course there are examples of a killer being on test, or whiskey, or Ibuprofen for that matter. But taking test, drinking whiskey, or taking Ibuprofen doesn't turn you into a killer. Let's not make excuses for anyone.


I get what you are saying. 

Besides, he's accused of premeditated murder. Stopping, thinking about it, putting his legs on, waiting until she went to the toilet (easy target). 

Not exactly a 'moment of passion' that.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

lol @ waiting until she went to the toilet so that she would be an easy target! 

He's obviously not some criminal mastermind who planned this out for weeks in advance. Someone looking to kill another person and can make it look like an accident or just have their mate come up missing. 

If you're going to create a scenario make it realistic: They were fighting and she sought shelter in the toilet. She locked the door and he started to kick it in and then shot her. 



Again, the fact that the officers mucked up the crime scene and publicly called a perfectly legal supplement "steroids" casts doubt on the prosecution's case.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

I'm not making up a scenario.

I'm relaying the prosecutor's position, that he is accused of premeditated murder, that he put his legs on, went after her, etc...they made this big to do that 10 minutes of planning would count as premeditated.

If you disagree with them, that's fine. But leave me out of it.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

In the OJ case, some of the crooked detectives are also racist. They also planted evidence (probably make sure OJ would be nailed). They made lots of mistakes during the handling of the evidence. Johnny Cochran brought it all up pretty well; and eventually also brought out the race card too.

Now... is there anyone on this planet today (except maybe a black man from LA who is a die-hard OJ jocker) believe OJ was not the real killer?

I see Oscar as the same thing as OJ. Killer!

(I wonder if OJ ever finds his ex's real killer, as he had vowed to do. I hate to be OJ's children wondering if dad had decapitated mom's head)


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Does Pistorious have a strange live-in house guest?


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

No, but he lives in a big modern house. 

Looks like a security nightmare to me. 

Lots of big windows. Two low one story terraces in front that go out to the street - easy for an intruder to get a boost up and get to the second story windows. 

Plus all the trees planted close to the windows. 

I wouldn't live in a house like that. 

https://cdn.24.co.za/files/Cms/General/d/2297/07356c162f89419ebea1357ad7f59621.jpg


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

Local Hero said:


> lol @ waiting until she went to the toilet so that she would be an easy target!
> 
> He's obviously not some criminal mastermind who planned this out for weeks in advance. Someone looking to kill another person and can make it look like an accident or just have their mate come up missing.
> 
> ...


Can't argue with any of that. I don't know the legal definition of "premeditation" under SA law, either. Probably similar to the US/UK standard, though, SA being a former UK colony.

Before we hang the guy, bear one name in mind--Jon Benet Ramsey. Everyone thought that their story about an intruder was bogus, too. Then a retired state investigator proved that it was eminently plausible.


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## zoikz (Sep 5, 2003)

It's a silly way to try and get a testosterone boost. Basically there's some herbal jibberish and ground up bull testicles. It's been used a lot by euro guys and is available over the counter in many homeopathic stores.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Premeditation can occur in a split second. 

I just laugh at the idea of waiting until someone is vulnerable in the bathroom. If someone is going to wait until their lover or spouse is vulnerable there are countless opportunities aside from a trip to the toilet. 

According to my attorney at lol research, it appears as though South Africa follows Scottish criminal law. It defines murder and culpable homicide.

*Murder* is constituted by any wilful act causing the destruction of life, by which the perpetrator either wickedly intends to kill or displays wicked recklessness as to whether the victim lives or dies.

*Culpable Homicide* is described as "the unlawful negligent killing of a human being."


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Even though he may be exposed as a scumbag, Pistorious is a ridiculously interesting human being.

Olympian, amputee, murderer, doper.


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## Slartibartfast (Jul 22, 2007)

Is Armstrong ridiculously interesting too?

Olympian, castrato, bully, doper.

I guess not as interesting. Bully isn't as cool as murderer. And he's not really a castrato. But I noticed that Lance hadn't been mentioned yet in this thread so I had to bring him in.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Slartibartfast said:


> Is Armstrong ridiculously interesting too?
> 
> Olympian, castrato, bully, doper.
> 
> I guess not as interesting. Bully isn't as cool as murderer. And he's not really a castrato. But I noticed that Lance hadn't been mentioned yet in this thread so I had to bring him in.


lets be honest, you'd have a hard time ignoring Lance if he was within a 50ft radius of you. 

But yeah, murderer is a huge jump from bully.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Ventruck said:


> lets be honest, you'd have a hard time ignoring Lance if he was within a 50ft radius of you.
> 
> But yeah, murderer is a huge jump from bully.


I know. Lance Armstrong's bullying was way worse than murder. It's mean to compare Pistorius to Lance.

All the folks who hate Lance can't stop themselves from looking at his Facebook or Twitter posts, either.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

Personally, I find Landis and Hamilton more interesting than Armstrong. 

Armstrong cheated and tried to silence people. Amoral behavior, but logical in its own way. 

But Landis and Hamilton spent big money fighting their cases, knowing they had doped. Landis, particularly, pretty much bankrupted himself knowing he was guilty and trying to get off on a technicality. 

It makes more sense now that we know how many riders were doped to the gills. It's like Landis has some weird sense of justice - it's ok to cheat, but he refuses to be the only one to go down for it.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Landis was taking all sorts of stuff when he popped positive for testosterone. But he wasn't taking testosterone.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

Local Hero said:


> Landis was taking all sorts of stuff when he popped positive for testosterone. But he wasn't taking testosterone.


He says he wasn't taking testosterone. I don't believe him.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Bluenote said:


> Personally, I find Landis and Hamilton more interesting than Armstrong.
> 
> Armstrong cheated and tried to silence people. Amoral behavior, but logical in its own way.
> 
> ...


Meh. If I weren't racing, I'd stop following them until cyclists and the governing bodies got it together.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Bluenote said:


> He says he wasn't taking testosterone. I don't believe him.


He lost the title, lost the tour, lost his career as a pro cyclist. Why would he continue to lie? Landis gets credibility for coming clean on several counts and admitting to everything else. That said, you're free to pick and choose what to believe. Nobody can stop you from creating your own reality.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

Local Hero said:


> He lost the title, lost the tour, lost his career as a pro cyclist. Why would he continue to lie? Landis gets credibility for coming clean on several counts and admitting to everything else. That said, you're free to pick and choose what to believe. Nobody can stop you from creating your own reality.


I hardly call taking everything Landis says with a grain of salt "creating my own reality." 

Where I come from it would be called horse sense. 

Like the old saying 'fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.' 

Armstrong lost his titles, was banned for life and publicly exposed. Why would he go on Oprah to confess, yet still lie? 'I was clean during my comeback, I promised Kristin, etc...'

IF Floyd wasn't on testosterone, his stage 16 (or was it 17) comeback was one of the baddest pieces of racing I've ever seen. I can see why a guy who has lost everything would try to hang on to that.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

He's not hanging on to anything. Landis admits to being on hgh _and_ epo during his tour win.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

Lets step back and look at the big picture. 

I said I find Landis and Hamilton more interesting than Armstrong. My opinion and I stand by it. 

Landis doped to the gills during his career, but he'll be damned if he's the only one who goes down for it. 

Nothing about him taking testosterone or not changes the above. 

He seems to want to cheat, but then have some sort of equal treatment. I find that curious. Not shocking or unbelievable, just curious.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Bluenote said:


> I hardly call taking everything Landis says with a grain of salt "creating my own reality."
> 
> Where I come from it would be called horse sense.
> 
> ...


plus, admitting to testosterone would be admitting he knowingly lied to the people paying his support fund, which could? have legal implications.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Local Hero said:


> Landis was taking all sorts of stuff when he popped positive for testosterone. But he wasn't taking testosterone.


I thought Landis tested positive because he forgot to remove the testosterone patch. Otherwise he would have gotten away with it.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Ah, I thought this thread was about Pistorius. Not the merry men of USPS. Again.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

Man, this was one hell of a thread hijack.
No wonder I feel like I keep reading the same crap in the doping forums.


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## Dave Cutter (Sep 26, 2012)

Local Hero said:


> Premeditation can occur in a split second.
> 
> I just laugh at the idea of waiting until someone is vulnerable in the bathroom. If someone is going to wait until their lover or spouse is vulnerable there are countless opportunities aside from a trip to the toilet.


The girlfriend had two phones. I would guess he woke up and heard/caught her texting in the middle of the night with who _he thought_ was a new love interest. He put on his legs grabbed a gun and tried to kick the door open. When he failed at the dramatic entry... he shot her through the door.

I would bet... the police knew who she was texting with... before he was ever charged Pistorius. Ego, jealousy, drugs, rage..... too common to be interesting.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

RRRoubaix said:


> Man, this was one hell of a thread hijack.
> No wonder I feel like I keep reading the same crap in the doping forums.


Cheer up. Now that the French ADA are doing some tests at the TDF, we may soon have some new dopers to talk about. 

I don't buy that the peloton magically cleaned up in 2006. Or that doping Doctors suddenly run clean teams.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

It was Pistorious' lawyer who said the stuff was bull testicles. 

I'm holding my judgement until the trial. 

I mean, lawyers never lie for their clients, right? 

Maybe it really is bull testicles. Maybe its not.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Bluenote said:


> It was Pistorious' lawyer who said the stuff was bull testicles.
> 
> I'm holding my judgement until the trial.
> 
> ...


Eating testicles isn't a known effective way to increase testosterone, otherwise it might be illegal to eat rocky mountain oysters.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

spade2you said:


> Eating testicles isn't a known effective way to increase testosterone, otherwise it might be illegal to eat rocky mountain oysters.


Wait- so Rhinoceros horn really DOES work? :smilewinkgrin:


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

RRRoubaix said:


> Wait- so Rhinoceros horn really DOES work? :smilewinkgrin:


Asian men can't be wrong, which is why the rhino is going extinct.


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## Robert1 (Mar 27, 2012)

If that was true, it would be a fairly simple matter to prove through phone records and we probably would have heard about it by now. That would be some extremely damning circumstantial evidence.



Dave Cutter said:


> The girlfriend had two phones. I would guess he woke up and heard/caught her texting in the middle of the night with who _he thought_ was a new love interest. He put on his legs grabbed a gun and tried to kick the door open. When he failed at the dramatic entry... he shot her through the door.
> 
> I would bet... the police knew who she was texting with... before he was ever charged Pistorius. Ego, jealousy, drugs, rage..... too common to be interesting.


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## Robert1 (Mar 27, 2012)

An olympic sprinter would not be wasting his time with anything else other than the real thing. Other than exogenous testosterone, the only way to boost test is either more sex, or heavy lifting--like singles, doubles, and triples. Rhino nuts, tree bark, etc. is all snake oil. He really expects anyone would believe a world class athlete would waste their time with that? That lawyer is funny.



spade2you said:


> Eating testicles isn't a known effective way to increase testosterone, otherwise it might be illegal to eat rocky mountain oysters.


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

A man with no lower legs was declared a flight risk.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Robert1 said:


> An olympic sprinter would not be wasting his time with anything else other than the real thing. Other than exogenous testosterone, the only way to boost test is either more sex, or heavy lifting--like singles, doubles, and triples. Rhino nuts, tree bark, etc. is all snake oil. He really expects anyone would believe a world class athlete would waste their time with that? That lawyer is funny.


Snake oil generally has a good placebo effect, which is how that crap will always sell. 

Having sex probably won't be on his menu for a while.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

spade2you said:


> Having sex probably won't be on his menu for a while.


If he hasn't been granted bail yet, I wouldn't bet the ranch on that. :wink:


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

PJay said:


> A man with no lower legs was declared a flight risk.


I've seen this said before, as if it's supposed to be hilarious, but I don't get it... he can walk/run just fine, right? And even if he couldn't that would not preclude him from exiting the country in a car or plane. I'm also sure there's ways to get around without using the running legs and sticking out like a sore thumb (i.e. use normal looking legs or a regular wheelchair).


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

Cableguy said:


> I've seen this said before, as if it's supposed to be hilarious, but I don't get it... he can walk/run just fine, right? And even if he couldn't that would not preclude him from exiting the country in a car or plane. I'm also sure there's ways to get around without using the running legs and sticking out like a sore thumb (i.e. use normal looking legs or a regular wheelchair).


I have two words to this comment: Keyser Soze.


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## thighmaster (Feb 2, 2006)

Wouldn't taking a substance, even though not proven to work, in order to get an advantage, still be doping. It may not get you banned, but at that point you're still looking to get a leg up by extra means. This may be more ethical than actuall, but I'd say he'd jump over the line in a heartbeat. I'd say he went over well before bull testicle.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

spade2you said:


> I thought Landis tested positive because he forgot to remove the testosterone patch. Otherwise he would have gotten away with it.


No Landis' T was because he had taken an autologous blood transfusion and the blood they had pulled from him to do it was tainted. So he was probably using T during training and forgot and they drew some blood for later. When they transfused the blood or rbcs back in they were slightly tainted. This explains why an 'off season' doping product showed @ this point


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

kbwh said:


> Ah, I thought this thread was about Pistorius. Not the merry men of USPS. Again.


I think Landis was a merry man of Phonak. Tyler was a merry man of CSC. Let's not be exclusive now


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

mpre53 said:


> If he hasn't been granted bail yet, I wouldn't bet the ranch on that. :wink:


clearly he doesn't have a leg to stand on

sorry, couldn't help myself


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## Dave Cutter (Sep 26, 2012)

Robert1 said:


> If that was true, it would be a fairly simple matter to prove through phone records and we probably would have heard about it by now. That would be some extremely damning circumstantial evidence.


I have the same TV, Radio, and InterWeb as everyone else.... and it's what I've heard (two phones, other man, jealous rage). Although I wouldn't expect the police of any nation to spill the beans to the news guys. I do expect foreign police to leak all sorts of stories both true and false... in exchange for cash.


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## Dave Cutter (Sep 26, 2012)

spade2you said:


> Snake oil generally has a good placebo effect, which is how that crap will always sell.


True. Look at popular diet trends. And.... is there a city anywhere on Earth that doesn't have a GNC type store. I believe many of our spices and traditional foods where once considered "cures" of some sort.


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