# Dogma2 vs Paris



## ml29 (Jun 3, 2011)

I'm currently riding a 2011 Paris and was considering getting a Dogma2. I don't race but just enjoy long rides with some hills. Has anyone ridden both bikes and can tell me the difference in ride quality?


----------



## Bill Bikie (Jul 24, 2010)

ml29 said:


> I'm currently riding a 2011 Paris and was considering getting a Dogma2. I don't race but just enjoy long rides with some hills. Has anyone ridden both bikes and can tell me the difference in ride quality?


My understanding is the Dogma is a pure racing bike and pretty stiff, and not designed for comfort. Of course racing isn't a comfortable activity anyway. 

I think you're better with what you have now. I love my Quatro, and I believe a Dogma would be less comfortable for me and I'd climb no better.

I just can't justify the extra $. I'm not 30 years old and racing cat 2..

You'll get plenty of feedback on this I'm sure.


----------



## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Dogma2 is great, very stiff but can be quite comfortable if properly set up. I use 25mm tires, carbon bars and fizik gel on the bars.

Way stiffer than my old steel bike but more comfy too...go figure.


----------



## ml29 (Jun 3, 2011)

*Frame sizes*

Thanks for the replies.

What is the effect of different sizes on handling assuming you can get the correct position for contact points.

I'm 5'7.5" with a 30" inseam and currently ride a 51.5 paris which is on the large side as I have a 90 mm stem and very little seat post exposed. I've tried a 46.5 Paris which had a 110mm stem and had quite a bit of seat post exposed to achieve the correct contact positions but it was only a car park test ride so I couldn't feel much difference from the different frame sizes.


----------



## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

I have a 50cm with 90mm stem and a 46.5 with a 100mm stem. The 50 is good, but the 46.5 is best handling bike I've ever been on. I'm going to try to a 110 stem.

You don't want your handling to be too lively though! What feels nice and quick in a parking lot can get tiresome on a century.


----------



## aureliajulia (May 25, 2009)

ml29 said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> 
> What is the effect of different sizes on handling assuming you can get the correct position for contact points.
> 
> I'm 5'7.5" with a 30" inseam and currently ride a 51.5 paris which is on the large side as I have a 90 mm stem and very little seat post exposed. I've tried a 46.5 Paris which had a 110mm stem and had quite a bit of seat post exposed to achieve the correct contact positions but it was only a car park test ride so I couldn't feel much difference from the different frame sizes.


Have you had a good fitting on this bike??? And if so, I'd consider going elsewhere regardless.

I'm 5'7'', 33.5 inch inseam, and ride a 51.5 Quattro with 110 mm stem and a 5 cm drop from saddle to bars. It fits perfectly. You have about 4 inches extra torso to play with. Maybe more. I also have a long neck. My torso is 58 mm according to my fitter. Hmmm. My last road bike was about 2 cm too small, and I rode an 80 mm stem for much of it. Ended up with a 0 offset seat post...still felt too long in the TT.

Finally put the 100 mm stem back on, and that helped.

Perhaps push that saddle back and adjust cleats, try a different stem, etc. It sounds like the bike fit is off, but you are going the wrong way in fixing it. For me, my upper back had to be raised too much on the too small bike. It made me think I needed a shorter TT because I was uncomfortable, when the opposite was true. 

JMTC.

My setup. (Can't resist an opportunity to show the new ride!!!).


----------



## ml29 (Jun 3, 2011)

Nice ride :thumbsup:.

I've had my bike professionally fitted to me and don't have any pains etc, just wanted to know if I was missing anything from a handling perspective by having a smaller frame for when I decide to change bikes.


----------



## Bill Bikie (Jul 24, 2010)

ml29 said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> 
> What is the effect of different sizes on handling assuming you can get the correct position for contact points.
> 
> I'm 5'7.5" with a 30" inseam and currently ride a 51.5 paris which is on the large side as I have a 90 mm stem and very little seat post exposed. I've tried a 46.5 Paris which had a 110mm stem and had quite a bit of seat post exposed to achieve the correct contact positions but it was only a car park test ride so I couldn't feel much difference from the different frame sizes.


For what it's worth here are my specs for comparison I'm 5' 8" and 150 lbs, and 72 years old. 
- I too have an approx. 31" inseam
- Quatro 54cm frame (4th & 5th digits of serial no. is frame size)
- 11cm steam
- About 3" of seat post
- About 3-4cm verticle between top of bar and top of saddle
- 55cm TT
- 71cm seat height
- Seat back 5.5cm (crank cent. to plumb line fron seat tip
- 172.5 crank length
- 40cm bar width with fairly shallow reach.


----------



## cyclin (Oct 30, 2011)

I have a dogma 60.1. Do a lot of long rides on it (longest so far 150 miles) and no discomfort at all.


----------



## dfstan (Oct 22, 2012)

i'm considering to get dogma as well but the LBS folks advising me to get paris instead.


----------



## ml29 (Jun 3, 2011)

Got my new dogma2 and definitely rides nicer than the Paris. If you can afford the dogma get it, is it worth the extra money? Yes

I'm no pro but I just do weekend rides but really enjoy riding the dogma, extremely comfy, jut make sure you get fitted to the bike.


----------



## dfstan (Oct 22, 2012)

ml29 said:


> Got my new dogma2 and definitely rides nicer than the Paris. If you can afford the dogma get it, is it worth the extra money? Yes
> 
> I'm no pro but I just do weekend rides but really enjoy riding the dogma, extremely comfy, jut make sure you get fitted to the bike.


Hi, but isn't dogma too aggressive and stiff which causes more vibrations and discomfort as compared to Paris? I'm also weekend rider and picking cycling again but was told dogma too aggressive for newbie like me.

Care to elaborate more on the ride comfort between Dogma and Paris?


----------



## Davide123 (Dec 6, 2012)

I'm on the Same dilemma between Quattro and paris...


----------



## ejabbale (May 28, 2011)

I have not ridden the Paris so I have no basis for comparison but I can second the fact that I find my Dogma 2 to be very comfortable on long rides. I believe it was Cinelli who said in this thread that the Dogma 2 is both stiff and comfortable...I agree! I feel that if you have a great fit then you will be comfortable so I would get the one you most want and enjoy!


----------



## AJ88V (Nov 14, 2012)

Davide123 said:


> I'm on the Same dilemma between Quattro and paris...


The problem with these kinds of decisions is that the dollars are large and you really have almost nothing upon which to judge the performance other than rider reports. You will rarely get enough time in the saddle of your hoped-for mount to make an honest judgement, and even then things like wheels, tires, handlebars, and seat have so much impact on the feel of the bike that its hard to get an apples to apples comparison.

I got Pina fever after riding my son's Paris. Even there not a ton of saddle time, but a lot more than you'd get from most bike shops. Much as I wanted a new Paris, it was really out of my price range. Speaking with the folks at the bike shop, people I know ride these bikes, they felt I'd have a hard time telling the difference between the Quattro and the Paris, especially for a casual rider like me. 

There's a new silver, black and white Quattro being set up as I type this.


----------



## dfstan (Oct 22, 2012)

does any riders be kind to provide more experience write up between Paris, Dogma K and Dogma 2 please? I'm deciding between these 3. any comments on ride experience welcome.


----------



## dfstan (Oct 22, 2012)

take the plunge and ordered my paris today....


----------



## olmauntin (Dec 4, 2012)

great
show us some photos when u get the bike


----------



## aroadbike4u (Jan 27, 2013)

The Dogma K is this year's re-branded version of the KOBH, which was Pina's relaxed geometry/longer wheelbase, smoother carbon bike last year. The Paris and the D2 have identical geometry and differ only in the grade of Torayca carbon they use, the D2 being of a higher modulus and being, therefore, lighter and stiffer. 

The Dogma K-KOBH is a different animal, part of that category of bikes that includes the Trek Domane, Giant Defy, etc. It has a longer headtube, shorter reach, which puts you a little more upright. If you're more of a century rider or want that more upright position, you might consider it. If you're considering more traditional geometry bikes then, without a compelling reason for going with relaxed geometry, I'd narrow down the choices between the Paris and Dogma.

With the 2012 Quattro/Paris/Dogma line, the geometries are the same, the difference is the level of carbon. The Paris will feel a little lighter and more responsive than the Quattro, and the Dogma will feel proportionately more responsive and stiffer than the Paris. Up until the current model year, I would have said the Paris is a pretty good compromise between the Quattro and Dogma in terms of balancing stiffness and comfort. Going for the D2 2012 might not be worth the upgrade if you're already riding a Paris and are happy with it.

....the 65.1 Dogma, however, is simply amazing. It's maybe the best feeling and handling bike I've ever ridden.


----------



## AnthonyL88 (Oct 9, 2007)

The Dogma 2 is extremely comfortable on long rides.


----------



## bikerneil (Nov 3, 2007)

I am anxious to see how other Dogma riders would rate "comfortableness" on long rides. I have a Dogma decision sitting on the fence - pending this answer......


----------



## ejabbale (May 28, 2011)

I went from a Cervelo R3 to the Dogma 65.1 and I have to say while both are great, the Dogma, to me, is the best if both worlds. It is responsive and very comfortable. Obviously everyone is different so if you are debating what to do, try and find a shop where you can test them. Have fun!


----------



## ml29 (Jun 3, 2011)

After riding the dogma more all I can say is that despite it been a "stiffer more aggressive" frame it is extremely comfy. I've sold my Paris but recently took my 2009 colanago clx3 for a spin and was surprised how uncomfortable it felt compared to the dogma. When I had the Paris I still enjoyed riding the colanago as I thought it was just as comfy. Components would also pay a big part of the comfy factor.


----------

