# Is this a good deal on a 2009 Tarmac Elite, or should I upgrade to a 2010?



## petalpower (Aug 10, 2009)

*Is this a good deal on a 2009 Tarmac Elite, or should I upgrade to a 2010? PURCHASED!*

I can pick up a new 2009 Tarmac Elite for $1800, possible $50-$100 less if I haggle with him. It's the only Tarmac on the floor, although he also said he can order me a 2009 Comp for $2200.

I like the price, but I was hoping to get some better components and wheels.

I was looking at the 2010 Tarmac Expert. It seems like the frame is a higher carbon, Ultegra components, and Mavic Ksyrium Equipe wheels.

I guess what I' asking is, since this is my first road bike, do you think the 2009 Tarmac Elite is a good price and bike to start with, or do you think that by stepping up in price will be worth it?



Thanks guys, and I can't wait to start riding/


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## daniyarm (Aug 19, 2008)

I am not sure you will feel that much of a difference between the carbon in both frames, but higher quality carbon is stiffer and I find it less harsh on poor roads. Better components is always great. I am not a big Mavic fan, so I would swap the wheels out before even leaving the store.
2010 prices are lower than 2009, so if you can afford 2010 Tarmac Expert, get it.


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## petalpower (Aug 10, 2009)

daniyarm said:


> I am not sure you will feel that much of a difference between the carbon in both frames, but higher quality carbon is stiffer and I find it less harsh on poor roads. Better components is always great. I am not a big Mavic fan, so I would swap the wheels out before even leaving the store.
> 2010 prices are lower than 2009, so if you can afford 2010 Tarmac Expert, get it.


What do you think about the Elite? Is is a good platform, in which I can add some wheels and components down the road, or am I limited with the frame?

Also, do you think the price increase from $1800 for the 09 Elite to probably $3K is "worth" it in terms of the frame, components and wheels.?

I figure If I get the 2009, down the road I can add a set of wheels(SOUL 4.0) and some better brakes(Ultegra or DA from Ebay) for about $700.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

petalpower said:


> What do you think about the Elite? Is is a good platform, in which I can add some wheels and components down the road, or am I limited with the frame?
> 
> Also, do you think the price increase from $1800 for the 09 Elite to probably $3K is "worth" it in terms of the frame, components and wheels.?
> 
> I figure If I get the 2009, down the road I can add a set of wheels(SOUL 4.0) and some better brakes(Ultegra or DA from Ebay) for about $700.


I have the '08 Tarmac Comp (same frameset as the Elite) and have about 5k miles on it - completely stock. I think it would be a really nice first bike, and yes the frameset is definitely worth upgrading down the road. 

Things do get a little complicated between the '09 and '10 model years, because the prices are dropping, so between the upgrades they're offering on some models and the lower price, the '10's are looking very attractive. Also, I don't think $1,800 is a bad price for the '09 Elite, but it's not great, either. 

That said, I'd be tempted to do what people do when car shopping. Get a bottom line price on the '09 Elite, then negotiate for the '10. From there you can weigh the differences in specs against the added cost. It might just be worth your while to go with the '10, because the frameset is equivalent to the '09 Expert. JMO.


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## petalpower (Aug 10, 2009)

PJ352 said:


> I have the '08 Tarmac Comp (same frameset as the Elite) and have about 5k miles on it - completely stock. I think it would be a really nice first bike, and yes the frameset is definitely worth upgrading down the road.
> 
> Things do get a little complicated between the '09 and '10 model years, because the prices are dropping, so between the upgrades they're offering on some models and the lower price, the '10's are looking very attractive. Also, I don't think $1,800 is a bad price for the '09 Elite, but it's not great, either.
> 
> That said, I'd be tempted to do what people do when car shopping. Get a bottom line price on the '09 Elite, then negotiate for the '10. From there you can weigh the differences in specs against the added cost. It might just be worth your while to go with the '10, because the frameset is equivalent to the '09 Expert. JMO.


I hear ya.

At $1800 on that 2009 Tarmac Elite, how much room do you think there is to talk him down?

At $1600, would that be A. Possible, and B. A no brainer in terms of $1600 vs. ~$3K for the 2010?

Thanks guys.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

petalpower said:


> I hear ya.
> 
> At $1800 on that 2009 Tarmac Elite, how much room do you think there is to talk him down?
> 
> ...


I'm not in the business, but I'd hazard to guess he_ could _sell the Elite for $1,600. Whether he_ would _is another story. 

I don't follow you on the $1,600 vs 3k for the 2010, unless you're referring to the Expert. I was comparing the '09 Elite to the '10 Elite. Discounted I'd guess you'd be looking at $200 - $300 more for the '10, and the frameset is the same as the '09 Expert. For a first road bike I really see no reason to go higher.


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## petalpower (Aug 10, 2009)

PJ352 said:


> I'm not in the business, but I'd hazard to guess he_ could _sell the Elite for $1,600. Whether he_ would _is another story.
> 
> I don't follow you on the $1,600 vs 3k for the 2010, unless you're referring to the Expert. I was comparing the '09 Elite to the '10 Elite. Discounted I'd guess you'd be looking at $200 - $300 more for the '10, and the frameset is the same as the '09 Expert. For a first road bike I really see no reason to go higher.


I guess I'm looking for the best value as well as getting a good bike that I'll grow with.

Yes, the $3K was for the Expert, and I was wondering if the ~$1200 extra was going to be a significant and noticeable improvement worthy of the difference?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

petalpower said:


> I guess I'm looking for the best value as well as getting a good bike that I'll grow with.
> 
> Yes, the $3K was for the Expert, and I was wondering if the ~$1200 extra was going to be a significant and noticeable improvement worthy of the difference?


The most noticeable improvement is going to come from the motor (you). 

It's your $$ so only you can decide, but some thoughts...

The Tarmac line is so strong that they're all great bikes. And, that $1,200 +/- represents a 67% percent increase in your investment. I guess you have to ask yourself if you're getting that much more bike for the money. If anything, it might be worth your while to inquire on the 2010 Elite price. There are notable differences in the frameset (from '09) and conceivably the pricing will be close. JMO.


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## petalpower (Aug 10, 2009)

PJ352 said:


> The most noticeable improvement is going to come from the motor (you).
> 
> It's your $$ so only you can decide, but some thoughts...
> 
> The Tarmac line is so strong that they're all great bikes. And, that $1,200 +/- represents a 67% percent increase in your investment. I guess you have to ask yourself if you're getting that much more bike for the money. If anything, it might be worth your while to inquire on the 2010 Elite price. There are notable differences in the frameset (from '09) and conceivably the pricing will be close. JMO.


I'm going to head on down there today and ride the 2009 and to ask about what the price difference is on a 2010.


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## PaulRivers (Sep 11, 2006)

petalpower said:


> What do you think about the Elite? Is is a good platform, in which I can add some wheels and components down the road, or am I limited with the frame?
> 
> Also, do you think the price increase from $1800 for the 09 Elite to probably $3K is "worth" it in terms of the frame, components and wheels.?
> 
> I figure If I get the 2009, down the road I can add a set of wheels(SOUL 4.0) and some better brakes(Ultegra or DA from Ebay) for about $700.


"PJ352" and I disagree a little bit. I didn't like the older Tarmac Elite frame with 6r carbon (same level in 09). I also found that the higher level carbon has a smoother and less bumpy ride, and with (apparently) sensitive wrists and a tendency to ride over rough stuff I really didn't like the Elite frame.

I think you're comparing the wrong bikes, though - the 2009 Tarmac Elite has 6r carbon, but the 2010 Tarmac Elite has 8r carbon, while the 2010 Tarmac Expert has 10r carbon. You don't have to spend an extra grand to get a nicer ride, just a couple of hundred bucks. I would (based on test rides of the 2008 models, and the specs on the website) highly suggest choosing between the 2010's - either the Elite or the Expert.

I think your idea about upgrading components is a little outdated. It used to be that components varied a lot between different levels and the frames were all the same - in fact, back in the old days the frames were literally exactly the same only with more expensive components on some than others. Nowadays, it's the opposite - the frames (at least the carbon ones) vary in ride quality and stiffness as they get more expensive, but more people are very, very hard pressed to find a difference in performance between 105 components and above. 


It sounds like you have the money, so it's a tough call. The biggest factor in finding a bike you'll enjoy riding and be fast on is fit. Far before components or frames (assuming a road frame). Buying the right size frame, that also fits you, should be your #1 concern. This is why it's difficult to suggest that you buy a top end frame, as you may buy a bike then realize after you're more experienced that it doesn't fit you very well.

So for that reason the 2010 Elite is more attractive...but on the other hand, I think if you bought the 2010 Expert there would be no reason at all to upgrade anything unless you're high-end racing, and frankly maybe not even then. The 2010 Expert strongly appears to have the same frame as the Tarmac Pro (the $5k bike), so *if* it fit you, it would certainly leave you with a top end frame that wouldn't need any upgrading. IMO, I don't think there's any reason you'd ever get any benefit from upgrading any components from Ultegra to Dur-Ace either unless they come out with a whole new version with something fantastically amazing, and we don't even expect a new version for another 7 years.

You might also test ride the 2010 Roubaix's if you want something else to compare it to. Just as fast. A little more stable handling (personal preference as to which you like). Not as quick feeling on the uphill, but a better more stable ride on the downhill.


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## petalpower (Aug 10, 2009)

PaulRivers said:


> "PJ352" and I disagree a little bit. I didn't like the older Tarmac Elite frame with 6r carbon (same level in 09). I also found that the higher level carbon has a smoother and less bumpy ride, and with (apparently) sensitive wrists and a tendency to ride over rough stuff I really didn't like the Elite frame.
> 
> I think you're comparing the wrong bikes, though - the 2009 Tarmac Elite has 6r carbon, but the 2010 Tarmac Elite has 8r carbon, while the 2010 Tarmac Expert has 10r carbon. You don't have to spend an extra grand to get a nicer ride, just a couple of hundred bucks. I would (based on test rides of the 2008 models, and the specs on the website) highly suggest choosing between the 2010's - either the Elite or the Expert.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply PaulRivers-

Like I said, I'm looking for value more than outright performance, and it seems that once you get beyond 105 equipped bikes, the law of diminishing returns sets in.

I wasn't able to ride the 2009 today since the farmers market was going on, but I will tomorrow morning.

He gave me a price on the 2010 of $1950, and perhaps I can knock another $50-$100 if I try, but it seems like $1950 is a fair price.

I think the 2010 Tarmac Elite with the 8r frame will do me fine, and If I have to upgrade ( more than likely since nothing I own remains stock lol) I can start on the wheelset.

Thanks again for all the help guys...


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

With that pricing, there's no question I'd go for the 2010 Elite. Same frameset as the '09 Expert for under 2K. Go buy that bike! :thumbsup:


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## petalpower (Aug 10, 2009)

Now I have to decide which color to order. 

Carbon with the red trim/highlights

White/Carbon

I think I like them both equally and it'll come down to pretty much a coin toss. 

What do you guys think?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I'd lean towards the carbon/ red, but I gotta say the white/ carbon has shades of Saxo Bank, so......

yea, coin toss!


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## petalpower (Aug 10, 2009)

PJ352 said:


> I'd lean towards the carbon/ red, but I gotta say the white/ carbon has shades of Saxo Bank, so......
> 
> yea, coin toss!



Just ordered it. Carbon/red won! 

Should have it by Tuesday.

Thanks for all the help guys!!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

petalpower said:


> Just ordered it. Carbon/red won!
> 
> Should have it by Tuesday.
> 
> Thanks for all the help guys!!


You do realize that Tuesday is about a 'month' away??  

You got a really nice bike for a really good price... congrats!! :thumbsup:


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## PaulRivers (Sep 11, 2006)

petalpower said:


> Just ordered it. Carbon/red won!
> 
> Should have it by Tuesday.
> 
> Thanks for all the help guys!!


I see you've made your choice - but I think you made the right one. I personally think the white one looked a little prettier, but the truth is that the white bar tape in that picture will start to smudge and blacken from your hands within 50 miles of riding, let alone thousands of miles. The black tape will still be black. So I think you made the right choice.


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## petalpower (Aug 10, 2009)

PaulRivers said:


> I see you've made your choice - but I think you made the right one. I personally think the white one looked a little prettier, but the truth is that the white bar tape in that picture will start to smudge and blacken from your hands within 50 miles of riding, let alone thousands of miles. The black tape will still be black. So I think you made the right choice.




Yeah- I liked them equally, but figured the white would show dirt the second I took it out.
Plus, like you said, the bar tape and probably the seat would stay white for about 50 miles.

I'll get some pics up soon!


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## trobriand (Apr 2, 2009)

I ride a black/red 09 Tarmac elite with a white seat and white tape. White tape is surprisingly easy to wipe clean.

Good choice on the 2010. My 09 6r (58cm) frame weighs 0.5lb less than the 2010 Allez elite (56cm). I'd love to lose more weight with the 8r or 10r frames available on this years elite and expert.


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## brentster (Jul 12, 2007)

I think white is a bit of a fad / the flavor of the month. Nearly every bike coming out this year is white and in a couple of years, it'll be something else. The natural carbon look is timeless. Congrats!!!!!


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## lennon2666 (Jul 17, 2009)

PaulRivers said:


> I see you've made your choice - but I think you made the right one. I personally think the white one looked a little prettier, but the truth is that the white bar tape in that picture will start to smudge and blacken from your hands within 50 miles of riding, let alone thousands of miles. The black tape will still be black. So I think you made the right choice.



You do know that bar tape is very easy to clean, right?  

Get some concentrated cleaning solution, dab it or spray it on a towel, either paper or other fabric, and rub the tape with the entire palm of your hand in the direction it's wrapped. If you're not overly gentle with the process, it'll take you two minutes tops to do a good job of it.

Nonetheless, enjoy your Tarmac, petalpower. That's a lot of bike for $2k. Good luck with it!


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## PaulRivers (Sep 11, 2006)

lennon2666 said:


> You do know that bar tape is very easy to clean, right?
> 
> Get some concentrated cleaning solution, dab it or spray it on a towel, either paper or other fabric, and rub the tape with the entire palm of your hand in the direction it's wrapped. If you're not overly gentle with the process, it'll take you two minutes tops to do a good job of it.
> 
> Nonetheless, enjoy your Tarmac, petalpower. That's a lot of bike for $2k. Good luck with it!


Ok, for one thing I do not believe this will clean my bar tape. I imagine it will be one of those things where you have to do it when your bar tape is still "white" and then every time you ride after that, and believe me my bar tape is already halfway to being black as it is!

For another, who the heck wants to spend their cleaning cleaning their bar tape??  Most of us can't find the time to clean our chains, and that actually has an effect on longevity and performance. There's *no way* I want to spend time cleaning off my bar tape that I could be spending riding.


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## petalpower (Aug 10, 2009)

Picked her up yesterday, and am planning a 50 mile ride on Sunday.

Stock except for a Garmin Edge 305.


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## father_of_4 (Aug 6, 2009)

*Nice!*

Looking forward to the ride report. I bet you feel fast. I have not ridden the 09, but have ridden your bike (it was white though) and it was the clear winner in the parking lot that day.

Have fun with it. I have to admit that I like the white color better... sorry.

Bob


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Great looking bike, congrats! :thumbsup:

Gotta say, I _really_ like the stealth look!


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## brentster (Jul 12, 2007)

PJ352 said:


> Great looking bike, congrats! :thumbsup:
> 
> Gotta say, I _really_ like the stealth look!


+1 :thumbsup:


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## Damian (Feb 19, 2004)

*I too am getting a tarmac elite..white and black*



petalpower said:


> Picked her up yesterday, and am planning a 50 mile ride on Sunday.
> 
> Stock except for a Garmin Edge 305.
> 
> ...


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