# Just got my XACD Ti frame today



## ahilliard

My custom-built Xi'an Changda 'cyclocross' frame arrived this morning, after 10 days wire transfer delay, 8 days fabrication, and 8 days travel. Packaging was pretty beat up from the intercontinental trip, but the frame was well bubble-wrapped and there was no damage.

The finish was a nice smooth sandblast, both outside and in... the frame tubes had sand still floating around inside. Flushing it out was a good excuse to water the lawn, and the soil around here has too much clay anyhow.

Haven't been able to make many measurements yet. While the rear spacing is a tad over, 136-137mm, the head tube was perfectly reamed and faced for a 0.15mm interference with the headset. It's a good thing too, because it looks like the head tube ovalized a bit from the welding process.

It's too soon to tell if everything will work out, but so far, so good...


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## mrbubbles

Very nice. That's definitely for Rohloff. How much extra for the ebb?

Edit: Oops. The answer is in the other thread I just read.


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## rook

Well, the grass looks really good. I think the grass was in focus more than the frame itself.


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## ahilliard

Ya, cell phone camera gives two choices: up close or in focus. Any requests?


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## Marc

Frame weight? Wallet damage?


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## jonnyonthespot

yeah, tell us more about i!


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## Le Wrench

Sweet! Looks like a Rohloff disc all purpose road/dirt bike in the making!

What are your ideas for the build?


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## ahilliard

I've started building it up, so it's too late to weigh... but the wallet damage is more easy to quantify. $495 for the base frame, plus $185 for the EBB. Shipping $165, bank fees $40 (plus $20 on my end), total cost ~$900 USD delivered. Canada Customs didn't even charge me brokerage or sales taxes.

Build quality so far seems reasonable - frame welds look smooth and neat, and everything seems aligned. Cable guides look a bit wimpy at first glance, but they are probably plenty strong. Fender, rack and water bottle bosses are recessed and sturdy-looking. Every tube has neat water vapor/welding gas breather holes drilled at each end. Seatpost fits snugly. EBB required me to remove it (with a 2x2" and a mallet) and slather it in anti-seize, but that was easily done and everything went back together smoothly. That's it so far...

The plan is to build it up with beater parts and a used Speedhub as a touring/commuting/pothole-bashing "everyday" bike. Weight is not the major concern - Titanium was more for corrosion resistance than anything. Will use drop bars, 700x38 Marathon Plus tires, Mavic 319 rims, and a 42x16 chain setup. Cables will be fully enclosed. Camouflaging the Rohloff and convincing myself that I can let it out of my sight will be the tricky part.


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## ahilliard

It's built! Except for the Rohloff shifter cabling, so for now it's a very expensive single speed. On the plus side, the handling is nice and carvy (72.5deg / 66mm trail), the bottom bracket area seems plenty stiff (22x1.2mm chain/seat stays), and the ride isn't too harsh (50.8x0.9mm downtube). However, I might have specced the top tube 1cm too long, and the BB drop combined with 175mm cranks and platform flats means it will pedal strike in corners :blush2: 

Found the frame weight: 4.5 lb (according to the shipping label). For now, my verdict on XACD is :thumbsup: Also, Bike Pirates are awesome people.


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## shinsplints

Great looking frame! I've gone by Bike Pirates on Bloor several times and always wrote them off as the new hipster cafe. I also thought that it was a place to do your own wrenching -- did someone do the wrenching for you?


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## ahilliard

shinsplints: you're right about them being a DIY shop, and also right (to an extent) about the hipster cafe. But they are sincere, organized, and seem to be very effectively teaching people from all walks of life how to be self-sufficient in things bicycle.

Also, they have a huge selection of donated parts and very generous prices.

While the frame, rohloff, and wheelset were expensive, the handlebar, stem, headset, seatpost, seat, cranks, pedals, tires and cables all came from the Pirates' parts bins. And with their awesome tool selection, I was able to press the headset & fork race, plus set up serviceable brake cabling.


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## tober1

Show us how it looks!!


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## ahilliard

With pleasure!


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## CleavesF

Omg, these Chinese frame exporters are changing the game. I guess I know which bike I'm getting after my Bamberosoo.


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## C Dunlop

CleavesF said:


> Omg, these Chinese frame exporters are changing the game. I guess I know which bike I'm getting after my Bamberosoo.


They aren't changing the game, they are just removing critical parts of it, like warranty, labour standards, quality control, good design, liability insurance and recall procedures.

Granted, some of the other things they are removing, like distribution networks, save you money. However, I am willing to pay for most of the others. I am also actually willing to pay for advertising. Advertising, among other things, keeps resale prices high and adds to the base value of the product. I'd like to see how many times you have to list your XACD frame on ebay in order to sell it. 

I am happier buying a frame from a big company because I know that they will back me up with warranty, they have insurance and that I am reinvesting in a company that pushes design and production methods to make my next bike better. I am purchasing a consistancy of product an:blush2: d I know that someone who takes pride in their profession has done things like spec tube diameters and thickness, butt profiles and all the rest.

In short, XACD are just another bunch of nihlists out to make a buck. 

Shrug.


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## TheDon

C Dunlop said:


> They aren't changing the game, they are just removing critical parts of it, like warranty, labour standards, quality control, good design, liability insurance and recall procedures.
> 
> Granted, some of the other things they are removing, like distribution networks, save you money. However, I am willing to pay for most of the others. I am also actually willing to pay for advertising. Advertising, among other things, keeps resale prices high and adds to the base value of the product. I'd like to see how many times you have to list your XACD frame on ebay in order to sell it.
> 
> I am happier buying a frame from a big company because I know that they will back me up with warranty, they have insurance and that I am reinvesting in a company that pushes design and production methods to make my next bike better. I am purchasing a consistancy of product an:blush2: d I know that someone who takes pride in their profession has done things like spec tube diameters and thickness, butt profiles and all the rest.
> 
> In short, XACD are just another bunch of nihlists out to make a buck.
> 
> Shrug.



Wow you can tell all that by looking at the frame? You're amazing.:thumbsup: 

But don't worry Dunlop, these men are nihilists. There's nothing to be afraid of. 

Lance Armstrong and his trek will save us!!!!!


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## krisdrum

C Dunlop said:


> They aren't changing the game, they are just removing critical parts of it, like warranty, labour standards, quality control, good design, liability insurance and recall procedures.
> 
> Granted, some of the other things they are removing, like distribution networks, save you money. However, I am willing to pay for most of the others. I am also actually willing to pay for advertising. Advertising, among other things, keeps resale prices high and adds to the base value of the product. I'd like to see how many times you have to list your XACD frame on ebay in order to sell it.
> 
> I am happier buying a frame from a big company because I know that they will back me up with warranty, they have insurance and that I am reinvesting in a company that pushes design and production methods to make my next bike better. I am purchasing a consistancy of product an:blush2: d I know that someone who takes pride in their profession has done things like spec tube diameters and thickness, butt profiles and all the rest.
> 
> In short, XACD are just another bunch of nihlists out to make a buck.
> 
> Shrug.


Have you dealt with them before? Some of your comments seem to be leaps/assumptions, but I could be wrong, haven't reached out to them to create anything yet. I have a feeling the frame I am on right now was made in their factory, and I have been very impressed with it, although I will concede the design was done by a third party, if they in fact did the physical build.


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## dave_h34

C Dunlop said:


> They aren't changing the game, they are just removing critical parts of it, like warranty, labour standards, quality control, good design, liability insurance and recall procedures.
> 
> Granted, some of the other things they are removing, like distribution networks, save you money. However, I am willing to pay for most of the others. I am also actually willing to pay for advertising. Advertising, among other things, keeps resale prices high and adds to the base value of the product. I'd like to see how many times you have to list your XACD frame on ebay in order to sell it.
> 
> I am happier buying a frame from a big company because I know that they will back me up with warranty, they have insurance and that I am reinvesting in a company that pushes design and production methods to make my next bike better. I am purchasing a consistancy of product an:blush2: d I know that someone who takes pride in their profession has done things like spec tube diameters and thickness, butt profiles and all the rest.
> 
> In short, XACD are just another bunch of nihlists out to make a buck.
> 
> Shrug.


Yeah, but what do you really think?


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## cpcritter

Back to...I like the bike build. 

I have been talking to a riding buddy about commuter catch-all do everything leasure fun bikes and he agrees with the idea of Ti for the corrosion issue. I prefer the internal geared hub. I always thought that the cost of a Ti frame made for a too expensive bike to "abuse". If you had a Tubus rack and Ortleib panniers it would be the bike I would build. 

Great job.


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## ahilliard

C Dunlop said:


> they are just removing ... labour standards ... good design ... advertising... spec tube diameters and thickness


Fair comment. Ethically, I would have rather supported my local framebuilder, True North Cycles. But I'm a cheapskate, and an engi-nerd.

To labour standards, I don't see any difference between XACD and name-brand bikes manufactured in China. To good design, *I* designed this frame, tube diameters and all, that was the point. It was fun, and part of the value to me. And this frame is unique - find me a 68cm EBB Rohloff disc-compatible name-brand bike! Finally, to advertising, **** that, I'm not obsessed about having the latest bike and hocking all my old stuff, I am going to ride this bike until it gets stolen or I end up in a wheelchair.

Thanks for the comments - I will be adding a back rack (Tubus, you say?) and might just throw my Ortliebs on there...


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## C Dunlop

krisdrum said:


> Have you dealt with them before? Some of your comments seem to be leaps/assumptions, but I could be wrong, haven't reached out to them to create anything yet. I have a feeling the frame I am on right now was made in their factory, and I have been very impressed with it, although I will concede the design was done by a third party, if they in fact did the physical build.


MTB frame with crooked BB threads. Trawl the internet and you can find more than a couple of cases along such lines. Dropouts build to incorrect spacing, crooked threads, not aligned, crooked headtubes and seat tubes out by several mm. The low price is part of the risk one takes. That is part of the problem with Ti, shops wont kill their cutting tools on it, I looked and I did not find. I on sold it to a friend who kinda-sorta found a solution.

I understand that the original poster had something very specific in mind, and that choosing tube thicknesses is part of the XACD deal. However, there are very few qualified people to do such things. An engineer could crunch numbers, but I doubt, for example, that XACD would stay to spec on tubing thickness. What's more, the mystery of how it will ride will always remain. That uncertainty is part of the deal and part of the cost.

If you buy a custom lynskey they will take it back again and again until it is perfect for you.

If you are going to be riding this bike 'forever' and dropping $1000 on a hub, I don't see why you wouldn't get a proper custom frame. The additional cost divided by forever is... not much.

In all but the harshest of climates a steel frame, looked after, will last decades. Framesaver is cheap. If you really don't like pulling out a BB to spray some framesaver in, there are solutions like getting the inside of the frame coated in HiPerCoat, which is a very thin, very hard ceramic coat which can even be applied over threads, and which is rust-proof. Custom steel is not as much as one may think. In the US, I think Curtlo is the entry level, at about $900.

I don't ride a trek, or anything new and flashy. I have a 15 year old colnago ($300) and a surly karate monkey ($500), both of which I race on and do over 20,000km a year. Bikes aren't a bling thing for me.

The bike is cool though, it is good to see different things, I guess the whole XACD thing is just a bit against the way I see things.

I also think that poorly made titanium has serious environmental impacts, but that is a different issue. If it does fail and you don't repair it, I urge you to get in touch with a recycler who deals in titanium. MOOTS recycles, and I am sure that they would be able to give you details.

XACD have also done a real number on Jeff Jones's intellectual property for his space frame recently, which it basically just objectionable and would be illegal anywhere else but china.

Finally, PLEASE, if you like life, your testicles and your teeth, do not ride XACD stems, bars, seatposts or forks. There are too many photos of catastrophic failures of these items. A catastrophic failure in a frame can generally be ridden to the ground or to a halt; a catastrophic failure in the above items will result in a serious injury or worse.


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## C Dunlop

Formula or Park Tools Ti-Prep is your friend. Grease will not work to prevent chemical rusting on Ti. You need to apply one of these product onto headset cups and every thread that is Ti touching another metal, and your seatpost. This includes water bottle bosses and rack mounts. If you do not, it will be months, not years before you are stuck (literally) with permanent water bottle cages.


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## C Dunlop

krisdrum said:


> Have you dealt with them before? Some of your comments seem to be leaps/assumptions, but I could be wrong, haven't reached out to them to create anything yet. I have a feeling the frame I am on right now was made in their factory, and I have been very impressed with it, although I will concede the design was done by a third party, if they in fact did the physical build.


They allege to be the manufacturers for airborne (defunct), voodoo's ti frames, Habanero and some other dude make no bones about having their frames done by XACD.

If, you are riding, say, an airborne, which may have been made by XACD, then the fact is that Airborne, if they were doing things properly, would have to have done destruction testing, X-rayed joints and tubes, cut a certain % of frames to pieces to check tube thicknesses and butting profiles etc. A much larger part of the picture than the factory location is the quality control. One off products out of China work under the premise of commercial samples for export, and therefore don't have to meet standards that real bike companies do. I think for off road use, for example, all load bearing parts have to take 65kg loading for 100,000 cycles to be certified in Taiwan. The commercial samples that come through my work from china are often actually deemed biohazardous by EU standards. No one where I work minces there words when describing chinese manufacturers as dodgy snake-oil salesmen.

shrug


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## krisdrum

C Dunlop said:


> They allege to be the manufacturers for airborne (defunct), voodoo's ti frames, Habanero and some other dude make no bones about having their frames done by XACD.
> 
> If, you are riding, say, an airborne, which may have been made by XACD, then the fact is that Airborne, if they were doing things properly, would have to have done destruction testing, X-rayed joints and tubes, cut a certain % of frames to pieces to check tube thicknesses and butting profiles etc. A much larger part of the picture than the factory location is the quality control. One off products out of China work under the premise of commercial samples for export, and therefore don't have to meet standards that real bike companies do. I think for off road use, for example, all load bearing parts have to take 65kg loading for 100,000 cycles to be certified in Taiwan. The commercial samples that come through my work from china are often actually deemed biohazardous by EU standards. No one where I work minces there words when describing chinese manufacturers as dodgy snake-oil salesmen.
> 
> shrug


I don't think anyone who is ordering from XACD is thinking they are getting the attention and service they'd get from Lynskey, Moots, etc. With that price tag, we all know there are inherent risks. We'd be silly not to. The question is, is it worth it to you? Obviously to you it is not. To others it is and thus far a good sampling of people have had good experiences and a great value for their taking a risk. Is there greater potential to be dis-satisfied? Probably. So far from what I am seeing though, they are doing a pretty good job.


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## dynamic_e

C Dunlop said:


> I am happier buying a frame from a big company because I know that they will back me up with warranty, they have insurance and that I am reinvesting in a company that pushes design and production methods to make my next bike better. I am purchasing a consistancy of product an:blush2: d I know that someone who takes pride in their profession has done things like spec tube diameters and thickness, butt profiles and all the rest.
> 
> In short, XACD are just another bunch of nihlists out to make a buck.
> 
> Shrug.


Kinda like the fella on RBR with a failed Lightspeed Ultimate that was given the Warantee option of purchasing a new frame as opposed to replacement. Nice lifetime warantee. In this business environment where each buck is critical, we are gonna see tons of cases of failed stuff that isn't "covered" by warantee. I thinkwaht the Chinese frame makers is interesting with the cheap ti frames, chear carbon frames etc, but let's see what happend with long term durability. It's a free market right?


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## rook

Nice bike. Did you spec the tube diameters yourself? Just curious what you decided to go with for the diameters of the TT, ST, DT?


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## ahilliard

rook said:


> diameters of the TT, ST, DT?


One of XACD's designers commented in this thread, which gave me a bit of direction. Locominute commented later in the thread that he wished he had beefed up some tube diameters... I'm totally happy with the choices I made to fit my 180lb:

TT = 38.1 x 0.9mm
ST = 34.9 x 0.9mm (ends up fitting a 31.6mm seatpost)
DT = 50.8 x 0.9mm (ovalized only on the steerer tube, because the eccentric BB shell is so huge)
Seat/chainstays = 22.2 x 1.2mm with varying degrees of ovalization.


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## rook

Have any idea on the frame weight?


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## krisdrum

rook said:


> Have any idea on the frame weight?


From the OP earlier in this thread: "Found the frame weight: 4.5 lb (according to the shipping label)."


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## rook

krisdrum said:


> From the OP earlier in this thread: "Found the frame weight: 4.5 lb (according to the shipping label)."




Hahaha! That's even heavier than an old steel frame!


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## krisdrum

rook said:


> Hahaha! That's even heavier than an old steel frame!


Seem high to me as well, unless that includes the packing material and box. It does look like a pretty big frame, so who knows.


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## ahilliard

Late update:

Total bike weight is *35*lb. I admit it's pretty heavy, but some excuses include:

Frame is 68cm
Tires weigh 4.5lb (Marathon Pluses)
Rohloff is Rohloff
All parts are cheap & heavy (cro-mo fork, steel drop bars, etc.)
Includes full fenders too
Aside from lugging it up stairs, the bike rides just great. I had some pedal strike with 175mm cranks, so I swapped up the pedals for some very thin & narrow Tioga Spyder platforms. Handlebars were a little low & forward, so I had to swap the stem for one with a lot of rise - 60 degrees! With that modification, my weight distribution is about 40/60 front/rear.

Six months in and no complaints.


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## raymonda

C Dunlop said:


> Formula or Park Tools Ti-Prep is your friend. Grease will not work to prevent chemical rusting on Ti. You need to apply one of these product onto headset cups and every thread that is Ti touching another metal, and your seatpost. This includes water bottle bosses and rack mounts. If you do not, it will be months, not years before you are stuck (literally) with permanent water bottle cages.


I've used Ti parts and frames for years and use ordinary grease and never have had a problem, never, ever.


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## locominute

ahilliard-
-how's the frame holding up?

laterally stiff enough?----


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## ahilliard

Holding up great, stiff as can be... in fact probably more than I need. Things I would do differently: (SEE FRAME GEOMETRY AND EXTENDED LIST HERE)

Less tire clearance on sides. XACD's designers assume the tire needs the same clearance all around, so I have 1cm of un-needed bend in the chainstays. Side clearance could have been much less, 3-4mm.
Thinner tubing in the rear triangle... if the tubes were straighter it would balance out.
Place cable guides for the Rohloff shifter more tactically - because of the bend in the chainstays, there's one place where the shifter cables tend to poke out and rub on the cranks.


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## numbnutz

I rec'd my new XACD custom frame with S&S couplers last month. I built it up with a 2 year old SRAM Force gruppo I pulled off my BMC, and then filled it out with a mishmash of parts from eBay and the garage, including the Chrome sticker on the headtube. The result is an absolutely kick ass travel bike. I took it to France last week and rode this thing over the Galibier and up L'Alpe d'Huez. It rocked. More photos of the bike HERE and HERE.


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## jimbeans

numbnutz said:


> I rec'd my new XACD custom frame with S&S couplers last month. I


NN, very nice, do you have more details on the drawing used? Comments on ride, and what led you to the design you chose? I've had one of their frames for 7 years now, it's been primary road bike for me since.


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## been200mph

Old thread... but the one XACD basher has given me a good laugh about how dangerous their parts are. Yeah... the same one relabeled and sold by Profile as the Stiffy Ti that I ran for years. Guess I'm just lucky to have my teeth, huh.


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## numbnutz

jimbeans said:


> NN, very nice, do you have more details on the drawing used? Comments on ride, and what led you to the design you chose? I've had one of their frames for 7 years now, it's been primary road bike for me since.


if you PM me with your email address, I can email you the CAD drawing. I basically copied the measurements on my everyday Ti commuter bike (an old Litespeed that fits me real well) and used their recommended tubing. The bike is awesome and my friends are jealous  In addition to the France trip, I took it to the Italian alps last month and the bike was fantastic. In terms of the ride, it definitely has a "titanium feel" to it, but overall stiffer and more responsive than I expected. The XACD complaints on this forum and elsewhere just crack me up. Notice how they're all coming from people who don't own them. This bike has turned heads up and down and across northern california and all across the alps. CHING! (that's "Chinese Bling")


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## twiggy

numbnutz said:


> if you PM me with your email address, I can email you the CAD drawing. I basically copied the measurements on my everyday Ti commuter bike (an old Litespeed that fits me real well) and used their recommended tubing. The bike is awesome and my friends are jealous  In addition to the France trip, I took it to the Italian alps last month and the bike was fantastic. In terms of the ride, it definitely has a "titanium feel" to it, but overall stiffer and more responsive than I expected. The XACD complaints on this forum and elsewhere just crack me up. Notice how they're all coming from people who don't own them. This bike has turned heads up and down and across northern california and all across the alps. CHING! (that's "Chinese Bling")


Having a travel bike with SS couplings is a dream of mine!.... Do you mind if I ask roughly how much it cost to have yours built?


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## numbnutz

twiggy said:


> Having a travel bike with SS couplings is a dream of mine!.... Do you mind if I ask roughly how much it cost to have yours built?


The frame was about $850 shipped to the US. Took about 3.5 weeks from when I sent the wire transfer until it arrived at my doorstep. From there, you can build it up as expensively or as cheaply as you want. Tough to say how much mine cost to build up since I used parts I already owned, plus newly purchased parts.


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## jimbeans

Yeah, it was a leap of faith 7 years ago, but there were no problems at all.. At the time there were three or four others I had conversed with about their bikes. All were happy. I've been very happy and am looking to do another design now for a touring/expedition style bike. Good to see more positive comments now, I haven't been following what they've done for a while.


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## twiggy

numbnutz said:


> if you PM me with your email address, I can email you the CAD drawing. I basically copied the measurements on my everyday Ti commuter bike (an old Litespeed that fits me real well) and used their recommended tubing. The bike is awesome and my friends are jealous  In addition to the France trip, I took it to the Italian alps last month and the bike was fantastic. In terms of the ride, it definitely has a "titanium feel" to it, but overall stiffer and more responsive than I expected. The XACD complaints on this forum and elsewhere just crack me up. Notice how they're all coming from people who don't own them. This bike has turned heads up and down and across northern california and all across the alps. CHING! (that's "Chinese Bling")


Hey Numbnutz, I'm going to send you a PM with my e-mail address.... do you think you could send me your CAD drawings? I'm curious as to how you design the length of the headtube/headtube angle.... do you have to know the length/rake of the fork you're going to be using, and the height of the lower cup of your headset before you set the length of the headtube, not to throw-off the angles? 

I'm thinking about having a XACD Ti travel bike made to the dimensions of my beloved Cannondale SuperSix....I think I'd go for all the same angles, except maybe with a taller headtube/TT so I can get a marginally higher bar position without a lot of spacers. That said, I'd likely build it with an aftermarket fork (Maybe an aluminum-steer tube'd Alpha-Q?) ... I assume if I want it to handle like my Super I'll have to get a fork with the same length/rake as my cannondale fork, but then I don't know how you guess the height of the lower headset cup to affect the headtube length? .... Maybe I should just assume some random headset?


Thanks!
Andrew


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## rx-79g

One can buy a US, Lynskey made frame for less than $1200, shipped, from Planet X. I think it wise to compare apples and apples when jumping on these Chinese "deals". It might not be worth $1000 extra to buy local, but it might be worth a couple hundred.

BTW, $900 is what a Habenero costs. That is Chinese, but is at least a US company with a warranty and local service.


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## twiggy

rx-79g said:


> One can buy a US, Lynskey made frame for less than $1200, shipped, from Planet X. I think it wise to compare apples and apples when jumping on these Chinese "deals". It might not be worth $1000 extra to buy local, but it might be worth a couple hundred.
> 
> BTW, $900 is what a Habenero costs. That is Chinese, but is at least a US company with a warranty and local service.



Sure, I can get the stock-geometry Planet X for $1020, Plus shipping from the UK to the US, then pay $400 for SS couplers and have them installed by a frame builder somewhere here.... Suddenly we're looking at an $1800+ frame.... Or I can buy a custom, mde to order XACD with couplers, shipped to my door for $850... hmmmm


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## rx-79g

So a custom XACD costs $900, and a custom XACD with couplers costs $850? How many features do you need to add to get it for free? 

Hey, buy whatever you want - I'm not opposed to XACD or Kung-fu carbon. I just think alot of people buying off brand Chinese stuff aren't always aware of all their options when they reject more traditional buys. That's all.


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## arshak

Did you have to send them the S&S couplers or was the price all inclusive?
Thanks


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## jimbeans

arshak said:


> Did you have to send them the S&S couplers or was the price all inclusive?
> Thanks


There seem to be a few alternatives to the original S&S couplers now - I saw a german company that used a conical section type of joining piece, and they claimed it's superior to the SS design for strength and for assembly (and no sharp bits). XACDs prices are all inclusive.


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## satanas

Can somebody please answer the question: do the XACD frames come with S&S couplers, or something else? Thanks!


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## arshak

I think he did: "All inclusive".
Thanks, Jim, btw, any idea on the name of the German company or brand that makes the couplers you mentioned?


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## satanas

My finances are now in a little better shape and I'm seriously considering ordering a frame from XACD shortly. It'd be an randonnee/light touring frame with a sloping top tube, based on an XACD cyclocross frame drawing I was sent by someone on another forum.

The main aim for the frame (apart from good fit) is for it to ride as comfortably as is reasonably possible. I'll be using a carbon fork, unless I order a Ti fork as well.

Does anyone have any ideas what tube diameters and gauges might be appropriate for a 140lb rider? Bear in mind I'm not concerned much about stiffness if this will impact negatively on comfort.

Based on what's said here: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=91156&page=2, I'm thinking something like this, but maybe it might be overkill for my weight: 

standard head tube, 38.1 x 2.15mm
31.8 x 0.9mm top tube and seat tube
38.1 (or 34.9?) x 0.9mm down tube
22.2-19 x 0.9mm chainstays (or smaller?)
16 x 0.9mm seatstays (or smaller if possible?)

It'd have a *very* sloping top tube with lots of exposed Ti seatpost, so the actual frame size would only be about 47cm centre to top; equivalent size about 55cm centre to centre seat tube, with ~59cm effective top tube, 71 degree seat angle, 430mm chainstays and 80mm drop. (And yes, this will actually fit me.)

I've drawn everything up in rattleCAD and it all makes sense, and would in any case be quite similar to an old custom steel frame I have, apart from a few minor fit tweaks.

I'm also pondering whether to get S&S couplers, and how to lock the bike up if I was to get them.

Anyone have any suggestions? (Please don't bother telling me to get a US-made frame as 1) I'm not in the USA, and 2) I don't have that kind of money. Thank you.)


----------



## arshak

If you are above 5'10 in height, even at 140lbs, I would recommend a bigger diameter down tube (34.9) and eyelets to the side on top of the chain stays for the rear rack. I would not go with a ti fork as they are really skinny either, especially if you are planning on touring with racks. You would also need to specify the length of the head tube/steerer tube and whether you want a inch or 11/8 diameter. As you will have limited space on your seat tube for a cage due to the drastic slope on the top tube, are you specifying water bottle braze on on the opposite side of the down tube, closer to the BB?
If you are specifying top tube cable routing, an assumption I am making based on you saying that the frame is based off a cyclocross frame, are you using canti's as well? If so you should include a barrel adjuster on the back of the seat tube for the front dérailleur and a cable guide wheel near the bottom of the ST to be able to use a bottom pull road cage in the front


----------



## satanas

I'm not planning on having eyelets on the seatstays. One of the reasons for making the frame small is to have more exposed seatpost and thus more flex/comfort. This has worked well on another bike. The rear rack - if I ever use one - will be attached to a seat clamp with rack eyelets, which will transfer the load directly into the seat tube/top tube junction, which is much stiffer than the stays. The stays won't have to support canti's either so I aim to make them as small as possible - I want them to flex!

There will (just) be room for a bottle on the seat tube; I will adjust the size so that there is. There will be one under the downtube too.

Head tube will definitely be for a 1 1/8" steerer, and *not* integrated.

Cable routing will be conventional, under the BB. I am using the CX frame as a basis because it is fairly close in geometry to what I want (including the curvy stays) and thus means I don't have to make up every last detail. I have zero intention of using canti's or a braze-on front derailleur.

Any touring will be very lightweight, so I'm not worried about stiffness for load carrying.

BTW, have you actually ridden the Ti forks??? I haven't heard anything about them from anyone who's actually used them. FWIW, I'm not too worried about flex, as long as they aren't likely to break. I've used lots of forks people would now regard as too flexy with no issues. And if they're skinny they'll match me!


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## satanas

Deleted: double post. :-(


----------



## arshak

Yeah, I have both the road fork and the cross fork in Ti. I used the road fork for 4 months and although it did not cause any problems at high speed; I.e downhill at 40mph, I am a heavier guy leaning more towards 200lbs and out of the saddle could feel them flex, more like a steel fork than the stiffness you feel in a carbon fork. I switched to a carbon fork for the stiffness. I have not used the ti fork on the cross frame as I have a Easton CX which I like better.


----------



## satanas

Thanks very much for the info! I'm quite used to old steel forks (531 SL, 531 Pro, Columbus SL, etc) and 1" steerer alu forks, so I think I'd be okay with the Ti based on what you've said. I don't mind seeing the blades flex under braking either, unlike some. And the Ti forks would give the chance to get something not super heavy (I assume - can you confirm?) with rack and/or bottle mounts, with the appropriate brake reach and offset, etc, etc.

BTW, are there options in tubing diameter and/or wall thickness with the Ti forks? I'm guessing there ought to be, and that they could thus be tuned to suit. I expect carbon would offer a higher stiffness to weight ratio, but that's not really what I'm after; I'll be happy if I can get everything (i.e., me and the parts) to fit properly and for the ride to be as soft as possible.


----------



## arshak

Unfortunately, they make them in only two types of tubing diameters. The ones I have are what looks like regular road forks with semi sloping steerer crown and the other one imade from tubing diameters which are quite beefy and more industrial looking. IMO, you should also look at their stems. They have some very nice models and youcan customize the length and clamp diameter. I have been running them now for 5+ years with no problems.


----------



## satanas

Excellent! Very helpful indeed, thank you. Sounds like the standard forks (like you have) should suit me. I was considering the stems too.

What I end up ordering might end up being determined in part by the total order value. If I can keep the total for the goods under $1000AUD it should come in tax and duty free, otherwise I'd be up for another few hundred $.


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## jimbeans

arshak said:


> I think he did: "All inclusive".
> Thanks, Jim, btw, any idea on the name of the German company or brand that makes the couplers you mentioned?


Arshak : pedalpower.de 

http://www.pedalpower.de/produkte/tandems/touren_mtb_tandems/index.php?nr=57


----------



## arshak

Cool, thanks.


----------



## fab4

ahilliard said:


> It's built! Except for the Rohloff shifter cabling, so for now it's a very expensive single speed. On the plus side, the handling is nice and carvy (72.5deg / 66mm trail), the bottom bracket area seems plenty stiff (22x1.2mm chain/seat stays), and the ride isn't too harsh (50.8x0.9mm downtube). However, I might have specced the top tube 1cm too long, and the BB drop combined with 175mm cranks and platform flats means it will pedal strike in corners :blush2:
> 
> Found the frame weight: 4.5 lb (according to the shipping label). For now, my verdict on XACD is :thumbsup: Also, Bike Pirates are awesome people.


How safe is doing a bank transfer to China as suppose to using Paypal? Seems like there's no protection to the buyer.


----------



## ahilliard

(at deleted post that was above)


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## ahilliard

Oh, also: frame still fine!


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## LOUISSSSS

ahilliard said:


> Oh, also: frame still fine!


hey man glad you're still around. i am SUPER interested in a frame from XACD. they quoted me $690 shipped for a road frame using their geometry and $730 for custom. I dont know anything about custom sized tubing, but am interesting in identically copying the cannondale CAAD10 geometry for $40 more just to go with a tried and true race geometry frame. 

Will their BB threading and size take my Sram Rival's GXP BB? i think its 68mm english?

i will be paying by paypal if i do order just so i am protected and they get me the order within 45 days. (thats how paypal works, right? i've never had a problem go that far using paypal)

PS: what are the SS couplers & what is rohloff?


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## krisdrum

LOUISSSSS said:


> hey man glad you're still around. i am SUPER interested in a frame from XACD. they quoted me $690 shipped for a road frame using their geometry and $730 for custom. I dont know anything about custom sized tubing, but am interesting in identically copying the cannondale CAAD10 geometry for $40 more just to go with a tried and true race geometry frame.
> 
> Will their BB threading and size take my Sram Rival's GXP BB? i think its 68mm english?
> 
> i will be paying by paypal if i do order just so i am protected and they get me the order within 45 days. (thats how paypal works, right? i've never had a problem go that far using paypal)
> 
> PS: what are the SS couplers & what is rohloff?


Isn't the whole idea behind custom that you get to tell them what you want? So the BB will not be an issue.

What you may want to consider is your admission that you don't know much about tube sizing and such. Based on what I've seen of the XACD stuff, you need to be pretty confident in the frame design elements (geometry, tube specs, etc.) and be able to read a frame blueprint to take full advantage of their services.

S&S couplers are probably the most popular way to make a bike frame fit in a standard suitcase size bag/box for use on airlines (without paying extra baggage fees).

Rohloff is an internal gear hub. Take a look at the OP's pictures. You'll clearly see it.


----------



## LOUISSSSS

i see, i dont need to fit the frame inside the suitcase/box so thats a nonfactor for me, nor do i need a internal gear hub.

should i just go with their standard geometry? 

here is the geometry picture they sent me for size 50 http://www.mediafire.com/?9plcxatnsilc5oc

is it considered race geo? how similar to the CAAD10 geo is it?


----------



## Crawf

LOUISSSSS said:


> i see, i dont need to fit the frame inside the suitcase/box so thats a nonfactor for me, nor do i need a internal gear hub.
> 
> should i just go with their standard geometry?
> 
> here is the geometry picture they sent me for size 50 http://www.mediafire.com/?9plcxatnsilc5oc
> 
> is it considered race geo? how similar to the CAAD10 geo is it?


Doesn't look like a CAAD10 to me, for starters the top tube is sloping...
Most of the feedback I have read from XACD owners is that there frames are a lil to flexy and they would stiffen the rear triangle and down tube (thicker walls) if doing it again. Something to think about if you want CAAD10 like ride.


----------



## krisdrum

Crawf said:


> Doesn't look like a CAAD10 to me, for starters the top tube is sloping...
> Most of the feedback I have read from XACD owners is that there frames are a lil to flexy and they would stiffen the rear triangle and down tube (thicker walls) if doing it again. Something to think about if you want CAAD10 like ride.


Thicker wall or wider diameter tube to get the stiffness up. Although the blueprint looks like they are designing the frame around a fork with a 30 rake. Most road forks have a 42 or so rake, so that seems rather odd to me.


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## ahilliard

*Do not buy from XACD* if you aren't 95% confident in your bike frame geometry skills or else you will be :cryin: 

Get some advice from the real frame nerds here and don't just 'hope it works out'.


----------



## krisdrum

ahilliard said:


> *Do not buy from XACD* if you aren't 95% confident in your bike frame geometry skills or else you will be :cryin:
> 
> Get some advice from the real frame nerds here and don't just 'hope it works out'.


Agreed. It seems to me they are order takers, not consultants on the finer points of fit and ride and how geometry and tube spec effect those things. So unless you are really confident in reading a frame blueprint and speccing out the details of a bike, get assistance. I'm lucky to have a frame blueprint from my custom bike that I can now use as a benchmark to compare against anything else I might be interested in.


----------



## framesti

Packaging doesn't look good. This touring frame costs $495 but road frame is $695?


----------



## Broken wrists

Hi, Numbnutz, 

Your bike is exactly what I want. Do you have to remove the fork for packing it?
What considerations in the design did you make in order to ensure that it would pack up into a 26x26 x10" case?

I've tried everything I could think of to try to get the couplers located so I don't have to pull hte fork. Nothing is working for me, as the head tube and seat tube are too close to the center of the case, fouling the spokes and freewheel. 

Great pics, thanks very much for your postings. 

J Lunney


----------



## Broken wrists

Further to my previous posting, I have been back and forth with Porter about 10 times in trying to get my frame. We're nearly there. 
They can do a lot- for instance for the flexible chainstay issue, they offer various thicknesses of chainstay. You could go for a larger diameter. They make tapered chainstays for an upcharge, I didn't ask about this. 

I suspect that if you can think of it, they can do it. I have sent a couple of photos which has helped as communication in English is not Porter's long suit. However, he sends drawings apparently produced in Autocad. 

For the money, you can't get any custom bike cheaper-$1000. for a frame with (fake) couplers is a deal. 

Jimbo


----------



## fab4

Broken wrists said:


> Further to my previous posting, I have been back and forth with Porter about 10 times in trying to get my frame. We're nearly there.
> They can do a lot- for instance for the flexible chainstay issue, they offer various thicknesses of chainstay. You could go for a larger diameter. They make tapered chainstays for an upcharge, I didn't ask about this.
> 
> I suspect that if you can think of it, they can do it. I have sent a couple of photos which has helped as communication in English is not Porter's long suit. However, he sends drawings apparently produced in Autocad.
> 
> For the money, you can't get any custom bike cheaper-$1000. for a frame with (fake) couplers is a deal.
> 
> Jimbo


Is XACD taking paypal as a form of payment. I was thinking of buying a ti frame from them but they want me to do a bank wire transfer which doesn't give me much protection.


----------



## Crawf

They only accept bank transfers for larger amounts, but accept paypal for the small amounts <$50.

You have nothing to worry about money-wise, but as mentioned if you go custom spec and cannot translate their CAD drawings there is a good chance you will miss something and find yourself with a somewhat imperfect frame.

I'll hopefully have my 2nd XACD frame on the road in a few days!


----------



## numbnutz

Broken wrists said:


> Hi, Numbnutz,
> 
> Your bike is exactly what I want. Do you have to remove the fork for packing it?
> What considerations in the design did you make in order to ensure that it would pack up into a 26x26 x10" case?
> 
> I've tried everything I could think of to try to get the couplers located so I don't have to pull hte fork. Nothing is working for me, as the head tube and seat tube are too close to the center of the case, fouling the spokes and freewheel.
> 
> Great pics, thanks very much for your postings.
> 
> J Lunney


I remove the fork, but I have a pretty big frame geo (I am 6'3"). It really isn't a big deal to pull the fork and then reinsert/rebuild the headset on the assembly. It adds a few minutes and a little more futzing around, but not a big deal when you are packing it all into a suitcase. I actually have a lot more piece of mind knowing the fragile carbon fork is removed and totally encased in packaging.


----------



## numbnutz

More of the XACD coupler travel frame in action. 

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/I8vO7aa_vPiu-z-mAaR0aw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_-cCP9gkou1k/TEExSAyitzI/AAAAAAAACNg/qHfXOmjkaRI/s400/P1050603-1.JPG" height="301" width="400" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/mail.steele/LuganoMonteGronaAndShignanoRide?feat=embedwebsite">Lugano, Monte Grona and Shignano Ride</a></td></tr></table>

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/sAoKw-DCiqew5NLuubKxcw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_-cCP9gkou1k/TEExC1f6iQI/AAAAAAAACKI/ZHZE8bGyiWk/s400/P1050518.JPG" height="400" width="300" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/mail.steele/PigraBellagioAndTheMadonnaDelGhisallo02?feat=embedwebsite">Pigra, Bellagio and the Madonna del Ghisallo</a></td></tr></table>

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/viV0KCJMCz7w0YkVR0ZpMg?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_-cCP9gkou1k/TEExicxwXcI/AAAAAAAACSI/O8teQl7w97Q/s400/P1050726.JPG" height="300" width="400" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/mail.steele/CortinaPassoDelleErbeAndBroglesHut?feat=embedwebsite">Cortina, Passo delle Erbe and Brogles Hut</a></td></tr></table>

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ZTdYCOmHnQmiwCUQF_GUrQ?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_-cCP9gkou1k/TEExnUpUjfI/AAAAAAAACTI/uRl2pOI52gE/s400/P1050750.JPG" height="300" width="400" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/mail.steele/CortinaPassoDelleErbeAndBroglesHut?feat=embedwebsite">Cortina, Passo delle Erbe and Brogles Hut</a></td></tr></table>


----------



## Broken wrists

Hi, 

Thanks for your reply. 
I worked through the design process with Porter over a couple of months. English is clearly not a strong suit. When you make changes, you may discover that other features of the design have changed so you need to check carefully. Sent my money (wire transfer) Feb 23rd and in response to when I might see the frame, got the following reply:
Hi Sir:
We will can ready and ship the goods to you within 3 weeks.

Regards!

Porter

A month later, I inquired about the bike only to find it hadn't been started. 

Then I got this email: 

Hi Sir:
I estimate we will can ready and ship it to you at the end of March.

Regards!

Porter

This was after he wrote to say he wouldn't be able to start it before the end of March. 

I'm concerned that I may never see the frame, though I think that Porter's reputation as reflected in this forum is good. 

We'll see. 

Meanwhile, I'm thinking about going with Pride Cycles, who can do a frame with genuine S&S couplers for $2250. 

I'll post developments as they occur. 

Once again, thanks for the post.


----------



## Broken wrists

Thanks for the advice, I'll do that.


----------



## Dajianshan

Be sure you check Pride Cycles reputation around these forums before you make a decision. I recall a well publicized set of QC snafus discussed a while back.


----------



## locominute

regarding Pride....after finding out the front triangle was built wrong I sent the frame back a second time for money back.
Pride promise to refund my deposit February 1st .... still awaiting almost 2 months later.

.even going through credit card it is still a hassle as I am finding out.


----------



## fab4

Broken wrists said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for your reply.
> I worked through the design process with Porter over a couple of months. English is clearly not a strong suit. When you make changes, you may discover that other features of the design have changed so you need to check carefully. Sent my money (wire transfer) Feb 23rd and in response to when I might see the frame, got the following reply:
> Hi Sir:
> We will can ready and ship the goods to you within 3 weeks.
> 
> Regards!
> 
> Porter
> 
> A month later, I inquired about the bike only to find it hadn't been started.
> 
> Then I got this email:
> 
> Hi Sir:
> I estimate we will can ready and ship it to you at the end of March.
> 
> Regards!
> 
> Porter
> 
> This was after he wrote to say he wouldn't be able to start it before the end of March.
> 
> I'm concerned that I may never see the frame, though I think that Porter's reputation as reflected in this forum is good.
> 
> We'll see.
> 
> Meanwhile, I'm thinking about going with Pride Cycles, who can do a frame with genuine S&S couplers for $2250.
> 
> I'll post developments as they occur.
> 
> Once again, thanks for the post.


Did you get your frame yet?


----------



## Broken wrists

Alas, no. 

Here's the latest email from Porter. 
As you can see there is no date for producing or shipping the frame. 

Hi Sir:
Sorry for delay shipment.

Because we are very busy now,because we are moving our 
factory now,we bought more ground and built bigger factory. 
So the delivry time is delayed,please you understand these.

Regards!

Porter


In all the info on this and other sites ie http://www.spanner.org.uk/, I have not encountered a situation in which the bike was never shipped. 

However, Porter received the money Feb 23rd. No bike yet. No commitment as to when it will ship. I would advise anyone reading this to rethink whether they want to deal with XACD 

Jim Lunney


----------



## fab4

Broken wrists said:


> Alas, no.
> 
> Here's the latest email from Porter.
> As you can see there is no date for producing or shipping the frame.
> 
> Hi Sir:
> Sorry for delay shipment.
> 
> Because we are very busy now,because we are moving our
> factory now,we bought more ground and built bigger factory.
> So the delivry time is delayed,please you understand these.
> 
> Regards!
> 
> Porter
> 
> 
> In all the info on this and other sites ie http://www.spanner.org.uk/, I have not encountered a situation in which the bike was never shipped.
> 
> However, Porter received the money Feb 23rd. No bike yet. No commitment as to when it will ship. I would advise anyone reading this to rethink whether they want to deal with XACD
> 
> Jim Lunney


Keep us posted with your ti frame adventure Jim. I would like to read how long it will take for them to deliver your frame. I'm also in contact with Porter and I ask him what's a realistic delivery time and he also told me a time frame of 3 weeks. Below is part of my email correspondence with Porter.

What's a realistic delivery time after you received payment? Thanks.

In usually,once we receive your payment,we will can ready and ship
the goods to you within 3 weeks.

Regards!

Porter


----------



## Broken wrists

The fact that he would not be straight with you about the delivery time makes you skeptical of everything else. I'll keep you posted through this forum


----------



## fab4

Broken wrists said:


> The fact that he would not be straight with you about the delivery time makes you skeptical of everything else. I'll keep you posted through this forum



I finalized my custom ti frame design with Porter. I'll wait and see how yours will ultimately end up before giving them payment. I'm kinda leary about the bank wire transfer method of payment instead of paypal. Seems like no protection for the buyer.


----------



## arshak

I designed and bought 7 custom road and cross frames for both myself and friends of mine, between 2005 and 2008. In the beginning, I was leery too but they are pretty good about the wire transfer. I would prefer Paypal too, if for nothing else than the convenience of paying by a mouse click


----------



## Kontact

fab4 said:


> I finalized my custom ti frame design with Porter. I'll wait and see how yours will ultimately end up before giving them payment.


Maybe if you let them know why you're waiting, they'll get Brokenwrist's bike done sooner.


----------



## fab4

Kontact said:


> Maybe if you let them know why you're waiting, they'll get Brokenwrist's bike done sooner.


I actually did. Read Porter's response below:

"In fact,because we are expand our factory now,so the making is

slow,but from now starting,our making speed will be normal.Please

you don't worry these."


English is not great but he does respond promptly.


----------



## Kontact

fab4 said:


> I actually did. Read Porter's response below:
> 
> "In fact,because we are expand our factory now,so the making is
> 
> slow,but from now starting,our making speed will be normal.Please
> 
> you don't worry these."
> 
> 
> English is not great but he does respond promptly.


Hopefully that will work out well for everyone. A cynic would point out that his promptness may lag once he has your payment, but moving a shop always creates more delays than expected.


----------



## Crawf

Relax you'll get your frame, can't say I've heard of XACD ever ripping people off.
My first frame took only a couple of weeks. The second about 4-5 weeks, though shipping was great in about 4 days to UK.


----------



## MichaelB

fab4 said:


> I actually did. Read Porter's response below:
> 
> "In fact,because we are expand our factory now,so the making is
> 
> slow,but from now starting,our making speed will be normal.Please
> 
> you don't worry these."
> 
> 
> English is not great but he does respond promptly.


His english is much better than my Chinese !!!

Whilst it seems iffy (I haven't boufght a frame from them, but will do more than likely), the overwhelming feedback from customers is very good.


----------



## Broken wrists

Here's my design. I didn't want the chainstays to be bent or flattened any more than necessary. He would absolutely not go with perfectly round chainstays, perhaps they are flattened in advance. Also I wanted clearance for 32's. Here's my design. 

Jimbo


----------



## Crawf

Some shots of my two XACD frames, the commuter frame is brilliant!
The road frame has yet to see the road, hoping to break it in in the next few days...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157626165919312/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157626377862821/


----------



## Broken wrists

They look awesome!
Is that a computer on the stem of the road bike?
The coupler on the chainstay is great. 
When did you send your money?

Jimbo


----------



## satanas

Are they XACD dropouts on the commuter frame, or Paragon or??? And also, is it a "real" S&S coupler, and did you get a wrench to fit it from XACD if not?

Thanks!


----------



## Crawf

Not sure what brand of dropouts they are, I just specified hori's with disc and tensioners.
It's not a real SS, I got the wrench from elsewhere as XACD wanted to much for a simple coupler wrench.


----------



## fab4

Crawf said:


> Some shots of my two XACD frames, the commuter frame is brilliant!
> The road frame has yet to see the road, hoping to break it in in the next few days...
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157626165919312/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157626377862821/


Nice looking ti bikes. Did they charge you extra for the internal rear brake housing routing?


----------



## mhuffaker

*Building my XACD up this weekend*

I received my XACD frame in February and have been too busy to assemble it until now. I will finish tomorrow. This is the fifth bike I have built frame up. It will be a 9 speed Ultegra triple. 
It is a relaxed century bike for an old, slow fat guy. The frame quality is quite nice, really nice. The welding is excellent. Porter is, as has been stated, very responsive. I too was concerned about the wire transfer but once I received and checked the frame I would have little hesitation to do it again. It took about 4.5 weeks from the day I sent the transfer to receipt of the frame. It was really wrapped in a lot of foam and bubble wrap. Good box, better than expected. No dents/dings/scratches. Every dimension I have checked is right on. I use the string method for alignment and dial metric calipers for everything else (yes I am a geek....mechanical engineer and machine designer). As mentioned before you really, really have to check every dimension in your design since they will build what is designed.
I took their road design and lengthened the chain stays, dropped the bottom bracket, relaxed the geometry, increased the diameter of the chainstay and seatstay to the next size, increased the wall thickness of the chainstay to the next size and down tube and added about 20mm to the existing height of the headtube above the top tube since at 62 I want more handlebar height with less spacers.


----------



## mrbubbles

Member since July 2010 and this is your first post? Anyways, pics please.


----------



## rockdude

If you would have looked above you would have found his pix....

Some shots of my two XACD frames, the commuter frame is brilliant!
The road frame has yet to see the road, hoping to break it in in the next few days...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/5686646...7626165919312/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/5686646...7626377862821/




mrbubbles said:


> Member since July 2010 and this is your first post? Anyways, pics please.


----------



## Kontact

rockdude said:


> If you would have looked above you would have found his pix....
> 
> Some shots of my two XACD frames, the commuter frame is brilliant!
> The road frame has yet to see the road, hoping to break it in in the next few days...
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/5686646...7626165919312/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/5686646...7626377862821/


If someone has only 1 post and it has no pictures, where else are you supposed to look?


----------



## krisdrum

Yep two different posters.


----------



## rockdude

rockdude said:


> If you would have looked above you would have found his pix....
> 
> Some shots of my two XACD frames, the commuter frame is brilliant!
> The road frame has yet to see the road, hoping to break it in in the next few days...
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/5686646...7626165919312/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/5686646...7626377862821/



My bad! you were talking about the OP... Sorry!!!!


----------



## Dumb Blond Gurl

*The Deep End?*

Hello All,

I hope I haven't made an error(s) in judgment? I have sent Porter Du @ XI'AN two separate bank wires in the last two months. I've order one road racing titanium frame and one MTB racing frame. I have sent two bank wire transfers totalling over $2200. :mad2: 

I realized after that I wish to have the "brushed finish" and Porter Du has asked for an additional $140.00 U.S. 

The First Bank wire transfer was sent on March 22, 2011.

The second bank transfer was sent on April 2, 2011.

I will keep you updated, with pictures and progress.

I hope this is a positive experience.


----------



## satanas

Thanks for posting the drawings! I wasn't aware that XACD offered tapered steerer tubes, or curved downtubes.

There are some interesting design choices elsewhere...


----------



## fab4

Dumb Blond Gurl said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I hope I haven't made an error(s) in judgment? I have sent Porter Du @ XI'AN two separate bank wires in the last two months. I've order one road racing titanium frame and one MTB racing frame. I have sent two bank wire transfers totalling over $2200. :mad2:
> 
> I realized after that I wish to have the "brushed finish" and Porter Du has asked for an additional $140.00 U.S.
> 
> The First Bank wire transfer was sent on March 22, 2011.
> 
> The second bank transfer was sent on April 2, 2011.
> 
> I will keep you updated, with pictures and progress.
> 
> I hope this is a positive experience.


Keep us posted with the progress of your frames. I too ordered a newsboy type road frame and sent payment on April 18, 2011.


----------



## Broken wrists

Thanks

They look great. 
I just got an email from Porter saying that (66 days after he received my money) that my bike has been shipped. 
I'll keep you posted

Jimbo


----------



## locominute

they must be real behind/busy
... got my frame just over 1 month after
wiring my money but that was 2 years ago


----------



## fab4

*Newsboy Road Frame*

Here's the CAD drawing of the newsboy style road frame I ordered from XACD.


----------



## satanas

^ Are you going to have a rear brake? If so where/how is it going to be attached???


----------



## fab4

satanas said:


> ^ Are you going to have a rear brake? If so where/how is it going to be attached???


I'm going to run a full rear brake cable housing along the top tube to the seatstays. I know it doesn't show in the CAD drawing but I've discussed it with Porter.


----------



## satanas

Yes, I can see the cable run, but there doesn't appear to be a brake bridge or bosses or a disk mount on the dropout. I was hoping that somebody hadn't accidentally omitted whatever was required from the final design!


----------



## Broken wrists

Looks like a great bike. 
What fork are you using that's 375 from crown race to axle center? Aren't most 368?
Also, I see you have kept your chainstays short. On a bike like this, where weight is not a consideration, had you considered thicker chainstays ie 19x 1.2 or 1.6 mm wall thickness, or fatter chainstays?

I hope it works out great. 
My frame is supposed to be on its way. 

Jimbo


----------



## fab4

Broken wrists said:


> Looks like a great bike.
> What fork are you using that's 375 from crown race to axle center? Aren't most 368?
> Also, I see you have kept your chainstays short. On a bike like this, where weight is not a consideration, had you considered thicker chainstays ie 19x 1.2 or 1.6 mm wall thickness, or fatter chainstays?
> 
> I hope it works out great.
> My frame is supposed to be on its way.
> 
> Jimbo


I bought a generic Chinese carbon fork with a 375mm axle to crown measurement and a 45 degree rake from Hongfu. Thicker chainstays might be a good idea for more stiffness and strenght.


----------



## Dumb Blond Gurl

*Hallelujah !!!!*

 Email from Porter Du today:


Hi Sir:
How are you?
Today,we already shipped the goods to you by EMS express.
The tracking number of EMS express is EEX&X*X99CN,please
you trackÂ it in website http://www.ems.com.cn

Please you see our attached the packing list.

Regards!

Porter

I haven't had the heart to tell Porter that i'm not a "Sir ...."

Keep yah posted with pics and dialogue :thumbsup: :blush2: :blush2:


----------



## fab4

Dumb Blond Gurl said:


> Email from Porter Du today:
> 
> 
> Hi Sir:
> How are you?
> Today,we already shipped the goods to you by EMS express.
> The tracking number of EMS express is EEX&X*X99CN,please
> you trackÂ it in website http://www.ems.com.cn
> 
> Please you see our attached the packing list.
> 
> Regards!
> 
> Porter
> 
> I haven't had the heart to tell Porter that i'm not a "Sir ...."
> 
> Keep yah posted with pics and dialogue :thumbsup: :blush2: :blush2:


Cool! 4 weeks from the time you sent the last payment. That's the ETA Porter quoted me too. Post pics when you get them.


----------



## Dumb Blond Gurl

*Quick Update ...*

Quick update. Pictures to follow.

Arrived: MTB 29er frame is 3.93 lb's (1760 grams)  
Arrived: ROAD 700c frame 3.66 lb's (1638) :idea: 

So this is FYI ... Quality looks reasonable.  

Geometry is to the drawings. 

I'll get pictures up of the packaging and unpacking.:thumbsup: 

They were really packed well. They took exactly 5 days from China to Canada to arrive.:thumbsup: 

I will get final build pictures up after they are together.

Kind regards.


----------



## Dumb Blond Gurl

BTW ... Duty/tax free ....


----------



## Broken wrists

Mine also arrived!
Looks great. 
Took 7 days to Canada. 
Packing was superb, took a while to unwrap. 
I've not had time to do anything with it. Photos to follow. 

Jim


----------



## fab4

Glad to read you guys got your ti frames. Can't wait for mine.


----------



## Broken wrists

Here's (hopefully) a photo and the design. 
Weight is 2.0 kg, heavy but extremely sturdy. I went with the heaviest chainstays 1.6 mm wall thickness, very stout downtube, etc. The couplers are massive compared to S&S ones.


----------



## Broken wrists

Here's the photos (perhaps wishful thinking)
Jimbo


----------



## Broken wrists

I see that although the uploader appeared to upload the images, they're not here. 

Here's a link to picasa. 

Jimbo

https://picasaweb.google.com/Lantalum/ChineseCheapoXACDTiFrameWithCouplers#


----------



## fab4

Broken wrists said:


> Here's the photos (perhaps wishful thinking)
> Jimbo


Your frame looks nice. The weldings looks smooth.


----------



## Spursrider

Nice looking frame. What finish is that? And how much did you have to pay to add the couplers? 
Please post pictures when you have completed the build.


----------



## Broken wrists

Plain finish. 
Couplers added $200 if I remember correctly.


----------



## rockdude

Hey Broken Wrists, where is the rear brake cable stop. Are you going to use a seat post clamp version?


----------



## Broken wrists

I plan to use direct pull brakes and the cable stop (split) is on the top tube just behind the coupler. That way I can disconnect the cable at the brake and the cable and housing will stay with the front part of the bike (when packed, the handlebars and stem). 

I thought of using a cantilever on the back which would involve no uncoupling of anything, just remove the stirrup from the saddle cable of the brake and voila, you've separated the cable from the rear half of the bike. However, cantis take up room in the case and I'm trying to make the bike so that packing it is as easy as possible. 

Jimbo


----------



## satanas

^ Still not sure whether the couplers are worth the extra cost and added risk of theft - it would appear they make it difficult to lock the front half of the frame securely. My problem is that most of the time the couplers would be useful I'd have nowhere to store the case/bag, so they might actually make my life harder. Maybe a lightweight bike bag would be easier to deal with here in Oz - fortunately I don't have to deal with US airlines on a regular basis!

Broken wrists: totally agree re cantis. A friend of mine had the arms torn off a frame during shipping once. The problem with linear pull brakes is getting clearance for wider tyres, or having to deal with "Travel Agents" or similar. Currently tossing up between long reach dual pivots (57-73mm), cantis and (maybe) centrepulls. Past experience with the latter was not good though, and if the dual pivots were used the seatstays could be a bit thinner, lighter and more comfy.

If anyone who specified 27.2 seatpost diameter could comment on how this was achieved and how well the post fitted it would be appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## Broken wrists

Hi Satanas, 
You need a tool to detach the coupler, like an old-style bottom bracket lockring tool, not something many people would have. Also, they'd have to separate the cables to separate the two halves, so I am not worried about this. 
You can get a bag, I saw someone on this forum post a photo of his XACD ti bike with couplers packed into a backpack which appeared to be made of heavy canvas. 

The seatpost is 27.2 because they insert another titanium tube ~ 5" long to bring the inside diameter of the seat tube to 27.2
A plastic shim would be lighter. However, the communication barrier was high enough that I didn't feel like taking this on. The shim was shown in the original drawing and I left it. 

I had a chance to weigh the frame - 2012 grams. Pretty heavy. However, in a bike store it was noticeably stiffer than any frame in the place, judging by squeezing the rear dropouts together. Perhaps a normal size top tube, a 34 mm down tube and thinner stays would preserve the stiffness but result in a lighter frame. The large couplers undoubtedly add a lot of the weight. They're massive. 

More photos to follow when it's built up. 

Jimbo


----------



## satanas

Thanks for the info. 

FWIW, I have a couple of C spanners and quite a few cup and cone BBs, so no problem there! I also have a set of Q/R cable joiners, so splitting the cables would be easy for me - and potential thieves. The bags are still quite heavy, bulky and expensive, but at least they can be folded and could conceivably be carried on top of a rear rack somehow, but they are still 26" long when folded.

IIRC, they used to just leave the seatpost O/S and one had to source a shim, but this is easy to do and cheap. I'm light and would be getting the smallest, lightest frame I could get away with. I'm happy for it to flex as long as it's comfy and doesn't break, so weight shouldn't be too scary. Stiffness for sprinting is a total non-issue for me as this would be a long distance/light touring/randonnee bike.

I'll look forward to the photos and comments on building up, but it seems like nobody has been having any issues -ever. Before this I'd been following a very long thread on a UK website and I'd guess 99% of buyers were happy.


----------



## Libraio

@Fab4: Has the newsboy racer come in yet??


----------



## fab4

Libraio said:


> @Fab4: Has the newsboy racer come in yet??


It's been almost 6 weeks since I sent XACD the payment for the custom Newsboy road frame. Porter told me 4 weeks but I have a feeling it will take longer.


----------



## mhuffaker

*Okay, finally built up with pictures*

Ok, got the 53cm old guy century bike built and have about 400 miles on it. My goal was to build a long distance bike for daily rides but also for hilly, mountain grades on multi-day supported tours. I wanted relaxed geometry and stability. I wanted a more upright position. I basically made a sport/tourer. Ultegra triple 9 speed, Brooks B-17, brushed finish. 
I took the stock XACD 53cm road bike and 

Extended the chain stays to 44cm, increased diameter and thickened the wall of the tube
Thickened the down tube 
Increased the seatstay diameter 
Relaxed the angles and increased trail
Increased the height of the head tube so I could reduce the number of spacers
Dropped the bottom bracket 10mm
Added STI downtube braze-ons
What I would do if I had to do it again

Really pay more attention on the distance from the real wheel Axle to the rear brake attachement centerline. I had the Ultegra standard shorter reach brakes and I was off by about 3mm's. Had to get normal reach brake.
My impressions are that the welds are of very high quality. The frame is very well made. I am not sure if it could be better in that regard. The bottom bracket diameter was very, very sightly ovalized, I had read from others that could be encountered. Had I not been looking for it I would not have even noticed. Used Finish Line anti-seize on everything with threads.
Riding it presented a dilemma since....well it was noticeably more comfortable...it felt like a touring bike I had years ago. I was worried in that I think I had lost my objectivity (I am an engineer). I have built up 8 bikes from stock frames and this was the most comfortable ever. Usually I don't notice a difference. Maybe I am prejudiced but I will take it, I like this bike. 
Would I buy from XACD again. YES!!!. It is a bit daunting to go through the process. Porter is very quick on design turnarounds. I have worked in many parts of China including Xian and enjoyed communicating with him. You do need to get used to the culture and word usage. YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST CHECK EVERY DIMENSION ON THE DRAWINGS, WHAT YOU SEE IS WHAT YOU GET!!!!! XACD is a frame fabrication company not a frame design company. I am very pleased.
As you look at the pictures you will see that weight is not much of a concern. Yes, those are my old 36 spoke wheelsets, I like reliability. I added 20mm height to the head tube.

I would like to thank those on this forum for the insights on XCAD. They were very useful.


----------



## mjb123

Out of curiosity, what is the small item in the bottom left of your drawing?

It looks like a rose joint of some description.

Did you happen to wiegh the frame?

Is it realatively stiff when riding out of the saddle?

I am looking at a similar design, albeit a bigger frame, and being on the heavier side have specced some larger down (44.5mm) and seat tube (34.9mm) sizes to keep thing realatively tight, but I am in two minds however as to whether I should increase the thickness of the downtube and chain stay tubes to 1.2mm


----------



## PLAYONIT

mjb123 said:


> Out of curiosity, what is the small item in the bottom left of your drawing?
> 
> It looks like a rose joint of some description.
> 
> Did you happen to wiegh the frame?
> 
> Is it realatively stiff when riding out of the saddle?
> 
> I am looking at a similar design, albeit a bigger frame, and being on the heavier side have specced some larger down (44.5mm) and seat tube (34.9mm) sizes to keep thing realatively tight, but I am in two minds however as to whether I should increase the thickness of the downtube and chain stay tubes to 1.2mm


Since the center hole is M5 it appears to be the cable guide for the down tube?


----------



## satanas

mhuffaker: Can you tell us about your weight and riding style please?

(It'd help my dithering about tube sizes and wall thicknesses.)


----------



## mhuffaker

*Answer to questions on my bike*

Rose tipped item is a braze on for an adjustable STI cable stop. It has indents so you can adjust one click at a time. I had to ask for that special and pay US$20 extra. Stock is the traditional downtube lever boss.

Frame Weight is 1.67 Kg, it is not light.

I weigh 91 Kg (yes I am old and fat, uphill fat is bad, downhill fat is good)

I do not notice any flex when out of the saddle. Seems as stiff as my aluminum frames. Tube diameters are about the same.

The tubing wall thickness I chose to increase on the down tube and chainstays to 1.2mm since I figure they probably get the highest amount of stress (not a scientific fact just my opinion). I wanted a bit more material for the weld joint interface at the bottom bracket and for a bit more dent resistance on the down tube. I could have increased the diameter of the downtube with the thin wall thickness and gained a lot more strength and less weight and gave that a lot of thought but did not do that due to what I felt was a weld compromise and less dent resistance. I thought about increasing the wall thickness of the seat tube but gave that a pass since I wanted to use my existing clamp-on front derailleur with. I had no interest in the front derailleur braze on and removed that from the design. 

Having the extra wall thickness may help and it did add a bit of weight to the frame but then I figure that since I could lose the weight so why make the frame so light. My Brooks saddle and 36 spoke wheels pretty much put me in the frame weight is not such a big deal category. Part of the fun of this process is obsessing on every detail.

Years ago when I was at about 81Kg I rode a Vitus 979 aluminum screwed and glued frame small diameter tubing and never had a failure after 4 years....now that was a very, very flexi frame.

Well I hope this has helped.


----------



## satanas

Thanks for the feedback. Since I weigh ~63kg I shouldn't need as much stiffness as you, and my frame will be quite a bit smaller too. Still, I don't think 1.67kg is all that bad - it's in the ballpark for a modern OS steel frame, and considerably lighter than the one I'm hoping to replace.

Yesterday I found this:http://www.calculatoredge.com/civil engg calculator/beam.htm#tube and made a spreadsheet with the relative stiffness and weight for lots of different steel and Ti tubes. Now I just have to take the lengths into account once they're finalised...

I owned and rode various 1980s ALANs (similar to Vitus 979) and always liked them. The flex never bothered me, unlike many others.

Best wishes, and thanks again for the info and for posting the photos and drawing.


----------



## Broken wrists

*chinese cheapo XACD bike with couplers, built*

Here's my bike, assembled by the good folks at Pecco's in Gatineau, QC. Everything but the seat, seatpost, pedals, and rear tire were supplied by them for $2100 including the buildup. 
Case, splitters, compression members, tool, fluoro lube and net were $575 from S&S machine shop. I haven't tightened the aerobars onto the bar as I need a spacer. That will complete the bike. It looks great. 
All labels are from Pecco's (Eclipse is their brand) to facilitate returning to Canada from trips.
Pecco's, now run by the third generation of the Cousineau family, is a great shop. They recently built up a Calfee tandem with couplers.


----------



## Broken wrists

*Photos?*

I have no idea what happened to the photos. They were there, then they weren't. 
Jimbo


----------



## blakcloud

Nicely done and your photos are there now.

I know the Cousineau's well as I worked for Denis for years on the Ottawa side.


----------



## fab4

Very nice build Jimbo. Please give us a ride report after you put in some miles. Still waiting for my Newsboy frame. Going on 7 weeks now.


----------



## Broken wrists

I waited about 8 weeks. There were some excuses, like, the business had to move, but once Porter said it was shipped, it took 5 days. 

The day before I got it, Pecco's got their shipment of Taiwanese built Ti frames, Their touring frame weighs about 1600 grams, without a coupler of course. By the time you have it modified, you'll have spent $2000. 

Given the increased level of activity on these forums, I suspect XACD is a lot busier now, and are struggling to keep up with the demand. 

Jimbo


----------



## mreams99

Looking forward to hearing long term reports.


----------



## Dumb Blond Gurl

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/album.php?albumid=31


My Frames from XACD


----------



## menash

I ordered my xacd. standard geo. non custom and made full payment by June 2. Today Porter informed me that there is no clear date when my order will be filled, even though I had been promised 4--5 weeks. Porter claims this is do to energy consumption limitations set by the govt.


----------



## FTR

menash said:


> I ordered my xacd. standard geo. non custom and made full payment by June 2. Today Porter informed me that there is no clear date when my order will be filled, even though I had been promised 4--5 weeks. Porter claims this is do to energy consumption limitations set by the govt.


And this is apparently true.
Have heard the same story elsewhere.


----------



## fab4

menash said:


> I ordered my xacd. standard geo. non custom and made full payment by June 2. Today Porter informed me that there is no clear date when my order will be filled, even though I had been promised 4--5 weeks. Porter claims this is do to energy consumption limitations set by the govt.


Porter is full of it. You will not get a straight answer from that guy or gal. He is also very abnoxious and rude. I sent my payment last April 18th.12 weeks later still don't have my frame after telling me at the beginning they will deliver in 4 weeks after they receive payment. First and last time I will do business with XACD.


----------



## menash

this seems to be a new issue
previous orders seem to have be delivered within 1 month
shipped within 3 weeks
looks like a turn for the worse


----------



## Broken wrists

Mine took 8 weeks or so. Porter never informed me about the delay and (see prev post) when I asked (after several weeks) he wrote back that the usual time to make and ship the frame was 3 weeks. 

In the end I got the frame and it is fine, I saved a lot over going with any other frame with couplers. Dealing with Porter was not a good experience. I'd suggest wait patiently, you'll get your frame and quickly forget about the hassles you are dealing with now.


----------



## FTR

menash said:


> this seems to be a new issue
> previous orders seem to have be delivered within 1 month
> shipped within 3 weeks
> looks like a turn for the worse


Keep in mind far more demand over recent months as the northern hemisphere buyers (which I assume will include both individuals and larger buyers who use XACD) move into summer. The story about the power supply is apparently true as I have heard it from other sources as well.

If the Chinese government can turn off the internet on a national holiday (which they did on at least one occasion that I am aware of), I am sure they can easily divert power supply away from non-essential services.


----------



## ludedude

Broken wrists said:


> Mine took 8 weeks or so.


@Broken wrists: Do you mind me asking how much you got your frame with couplers? Porter recently gave me a quote of $1095, which I thought was quite a jump compare to a year ago of $895.... Thanks.


----------



## Broken wrists

$995.00 which included the upcharge for the couplers and an additional upcharge for curved stays. I did not go with BB30 or a replaceable derailleur hanger. I think there were other options available but these are the only two I sprang for. 

Jimbo


----------



## ahilliard

Two years and going strong, glad to hear the vast majority of folks are making out all right.

That Newsboy frame looks wild, they must be having some problems getting all those bends done right!!


----------



## Broken wrists

Sorry I just checked my emails back and forth with Porter. I paid a total of $1090, as he didn't charge me for the curved seat stays and I had to pay the extra $95 by paypal. 

So, my frame, with couplers, plain dropout, curved stays, no other upcharges was $1090. 

Jimbo


----------



## fab4

Finally received my Newsboy style road frame after 12 weeks since I sent XACD my payment. Everything looked great until I started building the frame. The rear brake bridge was welded wrong. It was angled outward making the caliper pads to be be way up and away from the rim. The caliper is a medium reach (47mm-57mm) type. I emailed Porter about this problem and so far he has not responded. Going by my past interaction with him I have a feeling he will not admit that they made a mistake and tell me there is nothing wrong with the frame. Hope I'm wrong. Check out the pics.


----------



## jimbeans

fab4, very nice looking frame. I would be scared to make something that complicated with bends with them (XACD). The brake bridge issue is exactly why am scared to send them something nonstandard - as another has said, they are a fabricator, and may not catch some errors that may exist. Is the drawing also reflecting that the pivot hole not be parallel to wheel radius? May 'ask how much did your frame cost total?


----------



## jimbeans

satanas said:


> ^ Still not sure whether the couplers are worth the extra cost and added risk of theft -


Santanas, off topic to the XACD thread, 

but any frame in my opinion that starts costing in excess of $1000 built up (and all of these will be $2k+) cant really be locked up outside without some risk - how are your wheels secured to your bike? On a non-SS bike, how would you secure it? Do you lock your front and rear wheel? What is a thief going to do with 1/2 a bike? Yeah, rip off your front components, but why cant he do that anyway?

Think this is the risk of having a non-folding bike thats gotta stay outside, you just have to be near it at all times. In europe I rarely see $2k bikes not within site outside, at least with the SS bike you can quick split it in half and put a big trash bag over it and get it inside somewhere.

There are a few tricks you can do to try and draw attention away from SS, placing innertube sections overthem to hide them a bit, if leaving bike outside wrap a grocery bag around that section so even the bulge of innertube isnt visible, lock your front and rear wheel to the fixed object/post, use locking skewers like pitbull, etc. 

Still a concern for you not to use SS? Not picking on you, but think its an issue in general for any expensive bike.


----------



## Broken wrists

Heck!

Jimbo


----------



## Libraio

That really blows, how's the rest of the frame? Weight, welds etc?


----------



## Monty Dog

I'm about to order for a second frame from Xi'an - I've had the first for 5 years, a CX with discs and now used as a single-speed - this frame gets a real hammering as I ride a lot of technical trails that have broken considerably more expensive bikes. I ran the ti forks for a while - they are pretty flexy and have fitted a carbon fork since, which doesn't flex so alarmingly. Like others, the ability to read a technical drawing is critical - if a detail is wrong, don't expect any come-back. I'm presently spec'ing another cross/travel bike using a combination of the Ritchey Breakaway seat collar and their S+S downtube coupling. I'll be using TRP vee brakes for lower weight and simplicity - no need for cable hangers etc.


----------



## fab4

jimbeans said:


> fab4, very nice looking frame. I would be scared to make something that complicated with bends with them (XACD). The brake bridge issue is exactly why am scared to send them something nonstandard - as another has said, they are a fabricator, and may not catch some errors that may exist. Is the drawing also reflecting that the pivot hole not be parallel to wheel radius? May 'ask how much did your frame cost total?


Thanks for the compliment. The final drawing (located in previous pages somewhere) didn't show how the rear brake hole will be angled. Locations is perfect though it's just the angle. If the rear stays were straight it wouldn't be a problem. I ordered some extra long reach rear brake caliper and hopefully that will work. I actually road it 40 miles today with no rear brake and front derailleur. XACD was willing to take back the frame and fix it but shipping cost and more wait time is not worth it for me. Here's Porter response:

"But I don't think this is our making mistake! Because your 

seatstay bending very special that it is too arcuate,so it 

caused the problem,"


----------



## fab4

Libraio said:


> That really blows, how's the rest of the frame? Weight, welds etc?


The rest of the frame is ok. Just the rear brake bridge angle is the problem. Frame weight is a 3.92lbs. Definitely will not break the UCI weight limit but the ride is sweet.


----------



## FTR

fab4 is there anyway that machining/manipulation of the brake assembly could make it work?
Sounds weird but could you run the rear brake from under the bridge (reversed)?


----------



## fab4

FTR said:


> fab4 is there anyway that machining/manipulation of the brake assembly could make it work?
> Sounds weird but could you run the rear brake from under the bridge (reversed)?


I tried reversing the caliper but it makes it worse because the inside bottom of the caliper is now hitting the tire because the angle is now going towards the wheel. Hopefull an extra long caliper will work.


----------



## jimbeans

fab4 said:


> Thanks for the compliment. The final drawing (located in previous pages somewhere) didn't show how the rear brake hole will be angled. Locations is perfect though it's just the angle. If the rear stays were straight it wouldn't be a problem. I ordered


The bends are really pretty in titanium, with being able to see the actual metal detail as it is bare. I'm impressed they can do a one off design like this, thinking about the jig that they're using for the clean curves and ensuring alignment at same time.

The rear caliper you've got looks quite angled toward the brake shoes, at least more so than my recollection and a quick comparison with an older double pivot on a road bike next to me. Im sure you can find a solution with a few different models, youre close already. Without that angled section near the shoes, it looks like it would work? What brand/model is pictured (in the post with the 3 pics attached)


----------



## Ramjm_2000

Sorry to hear about the brake situation, like others have said with XACD you have to be VERY specific about every detail. That said a long reach caliper like a Tektro 556 should give you an extra inch or so of adjustment. Good luck!


----------



## Libraio

It sure does look gorgeous. Post some big pics when it's done, I need a new background...


----------



## fab4

Ramjm_2000 said:


> Sorry to hear about the brake situation, like others have said with XACD you have to be VERY specific about every detail. That said a long reach caliper like a Tektro 556 should give you an extra inch or so of adjustment. Good luck!


A Tektro 566 is exactly what I ordered.


----------



## Ramjm_2000

fab4 said:


> A Tektro 566 is exactly what I ordered.


Cool. Hope that solves your issue. On a separate note what kind of fork is that?


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## beston

This may not be ideal, but perhaps you could use a dropped brake pad holder to reach the braking surface.

like this,
http://www.bdopcycling.com/BDop Binders.asp


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## dave2pvd

Sorry to hear about your rear brake issue.

I would take it to a good machine shop and have it drilled at the correct angle with an oversized hole. Have them press a flanged bushing into the hole and it should be just fine.


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## satanas

jimbeans said:


> ...any frame in my opinion that starts costing in excess of $1000 built up (and all of these will be $2k+) cant really be locked up outside without some risk


Totally agree but normally one could use a U-lock and at least make it more difficult to nick the frame and wheels, and then there are things like Pitlocks. With S&S couplers there's no easy way to prevent the front half of the frame being pinched, along with whatever is attached to it. 

Given that none of the S&S bags are very bike portable (or cheap), I am becoming rather dubious whether there's any point for me as I'm not in the US so don't have to worry about the US "airline tax," and thus something like this: http://www.groundeffect.co.nz/product-detail-TAR-BAG.htm may in fact be a better option, and certainly much cheaper. It *is* portable by bike and should work with the services I am likely to use, plus the frame is less complicated and expensive too.

fab4: FWIW, I was also going to suggest the Tektro 556 calliper for the newsboy frame. I can testify that these are really long (and wide!) as I recently got a pair so I could evaluate them. I would be very, very surprised if a 556 won't solve the problem based on the photos posted.

Monty Dog: May I ask where you managed to source the Ritchey Breakaway bits please? (I assume that XACD don't have them.)


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## MichaelB

dave2pvd said:


> Sorry to hear about your rear brake issue.
> 
> I would take it to a good machine shop and have it drilled at the correct angle with an oversized hole. Have them press a flanged bushing into the hole and it should be just fine.


This would be the solution I would take.

Great looking bike by the way - something completely different. :thumbsup:


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## fab4

Finally got the front derailleur and extra long rear brake caliper and finished off the Newsboy road bike. The Tektro R566 fixed the rear brake caliper pad reach problem. Was able to put 45 miles the last two days. Total weight with a 10sp Campagnolo Chorus carbon group, Campy Nucleon wheelset and Crank Brother Candy pedals came out to 18.98 lbs. Not as snappy as my Cannondale supersix but not a slug either. Stable descender and not twitchy in the front end. It's hard to explain but titanium has that magical ride which enable it to soaks up road vibration differently than my Supersix, FM015 and Chinarello carbon bikes.


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## MichaelB

Great looking bike there. Glad to hear that it rides well and you enjoy it !!!


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## Libraio

Inspired by Fab4's beautifull frame and pictures of a Van Dessel WTF I spent an afternoon with Google's SketchUp. No longer satisfied by a simple ti frame I drew up this frame. 








A cyclocross frame with disc brakes.
Now I need to save up for it...
Fab4, thanks for posting your bike, maybe you could email some pics to spanner.co.uk . The guy running the site will probably like the bike.


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## rockdude

fab4 said:


> Finally got the front derailleur and extra long rear brake caliper and finished off the Newsboy road bike. The Tektro R566 fixed the rear brake caliper pad reach problem. Was able to put 45 miles the last two days. Total weight with a 10sp Campagnolo Chorus carbon group, Campy Nucleon wheelset and Crank Brother Candy pedals came out to 18.98 lbs. Not as snappy as my Cannondale supersix but not a slug either. Stable descender and not twitchy in the front end. It's hard to explain but titanium has that magical ride which enable it to soaks up road vibration differently than my Supersix, FM015 and Chinarello carbon bikes.


Why are you selling the Newsboy? such a coool looking bike...


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## Broken wrists

*Hindsight is 20/20...*

Having tried everything short of an exorcism to get the squeak out of my lower XACD built torque coupler, I was back to my LBS to find that they finally received some Ti frames from a builder in Taiwan whom they have used for years. See attached. Decent frames with a real guarantee for ~1500, or as a complete bike starting at under $2000. 

I could have had a North American builder add genuine S&S titanium couplers and spent about the same amount. Heck. 

Jimbo


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## blakcloud

fab4 said:


> Finally got the front derailleur and extra long rear brake caliper and finished off the Newsboy road bike. The Tektro R566 fixed the rear brake caliper pad reach problem. Was able to put 45 miles the last two days. Total weight with a 10sp Campagnolo Chorus carbon group, Campy Nucleon wheelset and Crank Brother Candy pedals came out to 18.98 lbs. Not as snappy as my Cannondale supersix but not a slug either. Stable descender and not twitchy in the front end. It's hard to explain but titanium has that magical ride which enable it to soaks up road vibration differently than my Supersix, FM015 and Chinarello carbon bikes.


I guess you didn't like your bike much as I see it is listed here.


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## krisdrum

blakcloud said:


> I guess you didn't like your bike much as I see it is listed here.


That may be a bit of a leap/assumption. Obviously it didn't turn out exactly as he had envisioned. Maybe the ride just wasn't what he was after or maybe the small details being off were deal breakers that he just couldn't get past. I know it would drive me up a wall to have the rear brake bridge configured wrong and I'd rather cut my losses and sell the bike than subject myself to stare at the mistake on a daily basis.


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## MichaelB

If you read the comments on the auction, he has ordered another with some mods (but begs the question overall though..)


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## steve90068

Broken wrists said:


> Having tried everything short of an exorcism to get the squeak out of my lower XACD built torque coupler, I was back to my LBS to find that they finally received some Ti frames from a builder in Taiwan whom they have used for years. See attached. Decent frames with a real guarantee for ~1500, or as a complete bike starting at under $2000.
> 
> I could have had a North American builder add genuine S&S titanium couplers and spent about the same amount. Heck.
> 
> Jimbo


dude that frame is awesome. got a link to the lbs?


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## Broken wrists

Yes, it's Pecco's, 85 Portage, Gatineau, QC (in Hull, across the river from Ottawa, Canada. 
toll free: 1-888-595-6556 local 819 771 0262. 
Denis Cousineau began going to Taiwan to buy bicycle gear in 1979 or so, long before Specialized and such began buying stuff there and selling it here. Because they import directly, their costs are much lower than third party importers who act as middlemen between manufacturers and retailers. 
They are expert at many things, among them dealing with S&S couplers. 
Give them a shout. Speak to Dan Larabie, my go-to guy there. 

Jim


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## menash

Finally got my frame on Aug 25th thats about 11 weeks after I sent payment (june 2). Hopefully will build it up this week and report


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## MindBeyondAverage

Nice.


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## 55rider

*Xi'an light tourer*

Purchased at light touring frame c/w couplers from Porter this spring. I copied the frame dimensions of a V.N. Yukon- 54cm with a 101cm w/b.
Considering my lack of knowledge re frame construction, it has turned out near perfect. (I didn't notice that all cable routing was under the top bar. This required the addition of a pulley for the bottom pull front derailleur that I'd already bought.)
The frame needed cleaning out, and I chased all the threaded lugs.
They don't supply a coupling wrench, but easy to find on ebay.
Recommend the (expensive) DuPont Krytox lube for the couplers. I tried never-seize and grease, but neither were very good. 

I used CanadianForex for the wire transfer. Easy to use once set up, and better rates than the banks. Only problem was it showed up as an OzForex deposit in China, and it took a couple of emails for Porter to understand this.
Entire process only took about 6 weeks, and could have been shorter if I'd known exactly what I'd wanted from the get go.

Thinking about building a coupled belt drive Rohloff 26er but have to make sure I get it right before sending the $$ to Porter. Any tips would be welcome.


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## satanas

Thanks for posting the drawing with couplers - makes it much easier to see how much space they take up and where XACD like to put them. 

I still haven't been able to order my frame as no $ until I receive a payment, supposedly now somewhere between December and February [sigh]. At least I'll have everything well sorted out by the time I place the order...


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## Taylor90

The bike is cool though, it is good to see different things, I guess the whole XACD thing is just a bit against the way I see things.


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## Taylor90

wow, just read some new interesting stuffs from you here


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## cda 455

For those that have dealt with Porter; What does he mean when he says:



> "If you confirm you accept our price,we will send the 61cm blade road frame drawing to you".



Does he mean accept like, "O.K. I accept the price" via verbal agreement or accept like transfer of money?


All I want to do is to see drawing on a particular frame they offer.


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## babyrabies

Im currently having a frame made by XACD. Though getting the correct drawing is painless but just beware of Porter's promises on delivery dateline. My wait is entering 9th week as we speak when he personally told me a delivery time of 4 weeks upon payment. No apology given and no courtesy of informing me the reason at all. I had to ask! 

Apparently, they're having power supply issues currently and this is slowing down frame production. I don't know if i even buy into that....this guy will agree on anything just to get your money! Some guy i know only receive his frame after 11 weeks. Thats rather odd considering it's not even customised, just a standard frameset.


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## progetto

Can anyone go through the ordering process with Porter and could you supply his email contact.


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## mjb123

progetto said:


> Can anyone go through the ordering process with Porter and could you supply his email contact.


Sure.

This is the email address that he has been replying to me on

[email protected] dot com

I had to be a little funny about the email address as I don't have enough posts to post it normally.


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## ludedude

$$$ sent on August 1st, payment acknowledged one week later, frame shipped Sept 18th, and received frame Sept 23rd. I was also given the power usage exceeding quota reason for the minor delay...

farm7.static.flickr.com/6178/6187601311_365d0239aa_b.jpg
farm7.static.flickr.com/6042/6209616614_a9e8e026ff_b.jpg
farm7.static.flickr.com/6154/6188197368_9faa9e7c31_b.jpg
farm7.static.flickr.com/6164/6223889057_302f767b72_b.jpg


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## Broken wrists

My understanding is that all the frames are custom and they do not keep a stock. 
You need to see a drawing and make sure you understand every detail of it before committing your money. Wait time from what I see in this forum is about 11 weeks. I waited 9 weeks in Spring. All are quoted 4 weeks delivery time. 

There is elsewhere on this forum a frame with the rear brake hole at a strange angle so a conventional rear brake could not be used. Other readers will tell you of surprises they got when they received their frame. 

So, get a drawing that specifies everything and check it carefully. Check the tube thicknesses as well as diameter, assume nothing. 

Also in the event that changes are made to your drawing remember that Porter does not necessarily look at the original drawing so may make more mistakes in the second drawing. I went through about 7, 3 of which was changing the fork from a 368 mm axle to crown race to a 400 mm axle to crown race (to fit an Easton cyclo cross fork). 

You can get a truly unique bike at a very good price if you are careful. 

Jimbo


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## cda 455

Broken wrists said:


> My understanding is that all the frames are custom and they do not keep a stock.
> You need to see a drawing and make sure you understand every detail of it before committing your money. Wait time from what I see in this forum is about 11 weeks. I waited 9 weeks in Spring. All are quoted 4 weeks delivery time.
> 
> There is elsewhere on this forum a frame with the rear brake hole at a strange angle so a conventional rear brake could not be used. Other readers will tell you of surprises they got when they received their frame.
> 
> So, get a drawing that specifies everything and check it carefully. Check the tube thicknesses as well as diameter, assume nothing.
> 
> Also in the event that changes are made to your drawing remember that Porter does not necessarily look at the original drawing so may make more mistakes in the second drawing. I went through about 7, 3 of which was changing the fork from a 368 mm axle to crown race to a 400 mm axle to crown race (to fit an Easton cyclo cross fork).
> 
> You can get a truly unique bike at a very good price if you are careful.
> 
> Jimbo


Thanks for the tips.


I'm looking into an aero frame design now. I might tweak the dimensions a little (Lengthen headtube, etc).


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## babyrabies

fab4 said:


> Porter is full of it. You will not get a straight answer from that guy or gal. He is also very abnoxious and rude. I sent my payment last April 18th.12 weeks later still don't have my frame after telling me at the beginning they will deliver in 4 weeks after they receive payment. First and last time I will do business with XACD.


damn right sir, he'll promised anything under the sun just to get your money first. Deliverance and accountability is secondary.


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## babyrabies

FTR said:


> Keep in mind far more demand over recent months as the northern hemisphere buyers (which I assume will include both individuals and larger buyers who use XACD) move into summer. The story about the power supply is apparently true as I have heard it from other sources as well.
> 
> If the Chinese government can turn off the internet on a national holiday (which they did on at least one occasion that I am aware of), I am sure they can easily divert power supply away from non-essential services.


Very easy, don't promise us 4 weeks if u can't keep up.. Keep us inform with a realistic timeline and be frank. Is that too much to ask? Why must he lie? It makes u think twice about the rest of the stuff he promised on your frame, like double butted tubes, etc. To me, i think that energy consumption excuse is now just a convernient scapegoat.


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## jasg

@ahilliard, @55rider, @dumbblondgirl, et al : care to give another followup a year or so later on how the frames are holding up ? Probably if they've survived the first 6 months or so, any pending problems would have already showed up, but still interesting to hear a longer term report.


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## arshak

I have not had a single problem with my frames, one a road bike (2005) and the other, a cyclocross bike (2007). And yes, both frames are double butted and easily recognized as such by pinging along the tube set with your finger. I have also designed two other cross frames and both are trouble free


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## Broken wrists

My Chinese Cheapo has now covered about 4000 km with no problems. More importantly, it has been through assembly/disassembly about 10 times. 
The bottom coupler squeaks unless tightened a lot, I'm afraid of stripping it, but if I did, I'd get a real S+S coupler installed. 
Jimbo


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## mhuffaker

Rides great, looks great, feels great. I could kick myself for not having gone a customer frame route before....of course there was a reason...cost. This bike really seems to fit. The titanium is a plus. People do comment on how nice the bike looks. Anyway, you asked and I am answering.


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## 55rider

So far so good. Only niggle is a minor clicking under load from the downtube frame coupler. Goes away for months if I undo and re-torque it. Definitely would buy again. btw- cheapest way to pay for a Canadian that I found is Canadian Forex.


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## 55rider

*XACD coupled frame*

Update.
Bike transported via AirTransat in a clear plastic bag- for $30 each way. No damage at all.
Uncoupled and assembled a few times for transport via TGV without a hitch.
2000k and 40k metres - part loaded and part supported without a problem. 
Complements from owners of other name brand Ti bikes, which may have come from the same factory as mine.

Satisfied customer.


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