# Super Human Lance



## tallcyclist (May 31, 2010)

Vino,Basso and Ulrick couldn't beat him and they doped through out there racing days.Is Lance that superior an athlete or did he dope too but is to smart to get caught?:thumbsup:


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## JimT (Jul 18, 2007)

Just Wayyy superhuman!!!!


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

bad idea asking that question right now...


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## Perico (Mar 15, 2010)

Too much trouble finding the doping forum?


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

what is he on? He's on his damned bike 7 hours a day - what are you on?


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

erythropoietin


There. Now it can be moved.


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## muscleendurance (Jan 11, 2009)

yes he did
/thread , now 5,4,3,2....


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## muscleendurance (Jan 11, 2009)

stevesbike said:


> what is he on? He's on his damned bike 7 hours a day - what are you on?


so are the rest of the tour riders  their hr also go above 200bpm...wow!


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## Kaleo (Jun 15, 2008)

Hmm... maybe the Cannibal, doped too. Or the Badger, Big Mig.. all the multi-time winners huh? If you got evidence, show it, otherwise you're just speculating... or pointing a finger... hmmm flandis?


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## Rage_Cycling (Dec 30, 2009)

Maybe he did dope fact is most were back then so he still won 7 TDF he is still a hell of a rider IMO.


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## Dizzy812 (Feb 20, 2007)

Get over the fact that they've all doped and will continue to _medically maximize performance_. At least the freakin' doctors are supervising the 'procedures', so no one is getting hurt.

Enjoy the show and don't compare the cleen(sic) to the sacrificial lambs who get caught.

We all have our favorites - gosh darn I'm glad Ivan beat down Vino - and uh, huh, how does that work?

As for LA, it's easy:

1. All pros dope
2. Lance is a pro
3. Lance dopes

and maybe

1. Heros are good
2. Lance is a hero
3 Lance is good


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## CabDoctor (Jun 11, 2005)

In before the move to doping 

WOOT WOOT


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

No Giro
No Ronde
No Roubaix
No San Remo
No Lombardia

Ergo ordinary!


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

He prolly has motor hidden in seat tube.


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

Rage_Cycling said:


> Maybe he did dope fact is most were back then so he still won 7 TDF he is still a hell of a rider IMO.


King of dopers? Definitely should take the prize.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

muscleendurance said:


> so are the rest of the tour riders  their hr also go above 200bpm...wow!


guess you didn't catch his nike training in the rain commercial - it's called sarcasm...


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## tallcyclist (May 31, 2010)

Thanks for the comments again.I have always been a Lance follower from way back when he did his first Triathlon on ST.Croix in the U.S.V.I and i will always be a fan of Lance.My love of cycling and all the positive things he does for cancer has helped me a lot in my own life because of my own fight with the disease.So i salute Lance he is a true hero.


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## muscleendurance (Jan 11, 2009)

stevesbike said:


> guess you didn't catch his nike training in the rain commercial - it's called sarcasm...


I did and I knew the quote, problem is when its LA being talked about sometimes its hard to tell, also you didnt get mine either!, which is why I signpost mine => I was taking your comment and pouring on some more basically agreeing with you


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## muscleendurance (Jan 11, 2009)

tallcyclist said:


> Thanks for the comments again.I have always been a Lance follower from way back when he did his first Triathlon on ST.Croix in the U.S.V.I and i will always be a fan of Lance.My love of cycling and all the positive things he does for cancer has helped me a lot in my own life because of my own fight with the disease.*So i salute Lance he is a true hero*.


so what your saying is he's your hero, yet from your OP sounds like you are unsure if he was clean :aureola:hmmm..
you said it yourself, if he beat those other top riders and they and most others doped you have your answer.


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## CabDoctor (Jun 11, 2005)

muscleendurance said:


> so are the rest of the tour riders  their hr also go above 200bpm...wow!


Whats so great about that? My max is 205


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## tallcyclist (May 31, 2010)

@muscleendurance I am saying i'm keeping it real even if he did or did not dope he is still a great athlete.And he is doing a lot of good things to defeat cancer and inspire a lot of people to live strong and ride a bike,run and be healthy and positive.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

plus, if Armstrong was stripped of those Tour wins who would you give it to? The entire podiums from 1999-2005 have been implicated in drug scandals...


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## velomoto (Oct 6, 2005)

30+ test in 2009 before/during tdf.... finishes 3rd after 3 years away.... inspires those fighting for their lives.... fathers 2 kids w/1 ball after super aggressive chemo... puts up with Greg lemond (for the most part )..... I'm thinking maybe super human :idea:


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

stevesbike said:


> plus, if Armstrong was stripped of those Tour wins who would you give it to? The entire podiums from 1999-2005 have been implicated in drug scandals...


I would give it to Jens Voigt, our newly crowned 11-time TdF winner.

(it's a joke, he probably had some "help" too).


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## rubbersoul (Mar 1, 2010)

Andrea138 said:


> erythropoietin
> 
> 
> There. Now it can be moved.


Chapeau!


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

*Lemond clearly thinks otherwise*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH650Br8uI


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## pezzo33 (Sep 20, 2009)

hasnt it also been proven that his heart and lungs have like a 30-40% higher capacity than a normal humans?

now, I know most pro endurance athletes are probably in this boat to some extent. But if you have physical gifts that make extra efforts possible, use them!

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/06/050615061032.htm

The other things (and this is one of the BEST arguments I have ever thought Lance brought up) - he has been like this ALL his life

He has not just peaked for his tour wins (as several admisted dopers have, being up high for 2-4 years and going away)

From when he was 14-15 years old placing nationally in triathalons against adults, to his 93 world championship, to last year when he podiumed at the Tour... he has been on the top of his game for over TWENTY years

at some point it is the man, not any medicine...

I believe he is just super human!


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

He won because Treks ar gud bikes. Duh.


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## pezzo33 (Sep 20, 2009)

spade2you said:


> He won because Treks ar gud bikes. Duh.


whats with you and trek bikes?

you replied to my post in another thread concerning trek bikes as well..


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

pezzo33 said:


> whats with you and trek bikes?
> 
> you replied to my post in another thread concerning trek bikes as well..


It's an RBR thing........

Carbon asplode.


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## pezzo33 (Sep 20, 2009)

spade2you said:


> It's an RBR thing........
> 
> Carbon asplode.


ah... ok... sorry

Guess I have not spend enough time on here yet (as evidence by my 16 posts in like 9 months. haha)

I ride a trek Madone... so didn't know if I was missing something aimed at me. sorry!


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

pezzo33 said:


> ah... ok... sorry
> 
> Guess I have not spend enough time on here yet (as evidence by my 16 posts in like 9 months. haha)
> 
> I ride a trek Madone... so didn't know if I was missing something aimed at me. sorry!


LOL, no biggie. I don't think anyone here legitimately hates Trek, but just a "thing" here and typically tied to Lance some way.


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## pezzo33 (Sep 20, 2009)

spade2you said:


> LOL, no biggie. I don't think anyone here legitimately hates Trek, but just a "thing" here and typically tied to Lance some way.


nah, understandable
I use to hate trek (and specialized) since they were the 'big' guys (kinda like hating toyota)

then I started riding treks... and needless to say, my opinion changed


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

Kryptonite is not on the list of banned substance....


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

pezzo33 said:


> The other things (and this is one of the BEST arguments I have ever thought Lance brought up) - he has been like this ALL his life
> 
> He has not just peaked for his tour wins (as several admisted dopers have, being up high for 2-4 years and going away)
> 
> ...


You don't think there are other pros out there that have just always been fast?
Didn't LeMond win the first race he entered?
I believe Basso was a terror on the Italian juniors circuit back in the day
Floyd wasn't allowed to race with the big boys, so he'd start in the group behind them, and bridge up to them.

Your argument amounts to "I read Lance's book and know his story, and despite not knowing the background story of anyone else in the peloton Lance's story on its' own leads me to believe that he didn't dope" It's not one of the best arguments for LA not doping, it's simply an argument based on a false premise.

All pro's are aerobic freaks of nature, and have been winning races for a long time by the time they make it to the show. I fail to see how career longevity is an indicator of whether or not they doped. How long did Pantani win races? Ulrich? Mayo? Vino? Tyler? Floyd? Basso?


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## pezzo33 (Sep 20, 2009)

godot said:


> You don't think there are other pros out there that have just always been fast?
> Didn't LeMond win the first race he entered?
> I believe Basso was a terror on the Italian juniors circuit back in the day
> Floyd wasn't allowed to race with the big boys, so he'd start in the group behind them, and bridge up to them.
> ...


I am not saying others cant be at the top for a long time either.

but compare it this way, to baseball say

Brady Anderson on the Orioles averaged 10 home runs a year his whole career, till he hit 51 on year 

Albert Puljos averages about 40 a year

who is more likely to be the doper?

The guy with one big year that stands out? or the guy that has consistently been doing the same thing his whole career?

Out of all those people you listed, I would say the only one with as long of consistency, was Lemond, and Ulrich. Ulrich could have been a multiple tour winner, IMO, if he had more motivation and a better team.


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

Your baseball metaphor, analogy, whatever falls short.

All the guys I listed had long, distinguished careers. There's a lot more to a cycling palmares than "won the TdF" None were one hit wonders that just popped for one year and posted great results only to disappear.


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## rubbersoul (Mar 1, 2010)

spade2you said:


> It's an RBR thing........
> 
> Carbon asplode.


Not to mention some RBR members are cognitively impaired.
________
WIKI VAPORIZER


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## tallcyclist (May 31, 2010)

Lol @ cpark


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Moderators Note*



rubbersoul said:


> Not to mention some RBR members are cognitively impaired.


Last warning on the personal insults.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

Coolhand said:


> Last warning on the personal insults.


Coolhand. You are on it! Every forum needs a "Coolhand"


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

Dizzy812 said:


> . At least the freakin' doctors are supervising the 'procedures', so no one is getting hurt.


Yeah, right. No professional cyclist has ever had their health compromised as a result of using PED's. You might want to rethink that statement.


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## eyebob (Feb 3, 2004)

*I used to be a big LA fan too, still am of sorts*



tallcyclist said:


> Thanks for the comments again.I have always been a Lance follower from way back when he did his first Triathlon on ST.Croix in the U.S.V.I and i will always be a fan of Lance.My love of cycling and all the positive things he does for cancer has helped me a lot in my own life because of my own fight with the disease.So i salute Lance he is a true hero.


but I've found a way to seperate his cancer work from his professional accomplishments. I can't prove it, nor do I feel like I need to any more, but I'm sure he doped. Mind you, I don't blame him, it doesn't anger me, nor do I think that it made him a cheat, because I also "know" that everyone else in his era did/does it too. It simply means that he was the best rider given that he and everyone doped, to about the same levels.

bt


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

eyebob said:


> but I've found a way to seperate his cancer work from his professional accomplishments. I can't prove it, nor do I feel like I need to any more, but I'm sure he doped. Mind you, I don't blame him, it doesn't anger me, nor do I think that it made him a cheat, because I also "know" that everyone else in his era did/does it too. It simply means that he was the best rider given that he and everyone doped, to about the same levels.
> 
> bt



+1

Just like pro bodybuilders. They are ALL steroid users (unless designated "natural" event or whatever they call it when the bodybuilders are clean). Have you ever heard the pro women speak...holy cow..their voices are deeper than mine.

Still, the winner of any bodybuilding contest has:
1. great genes
2. worked INCREDIBLY hard to get to that point

I am not condoning the use of drugs....just have to accept it now I guess. I hope some day it is all clean.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

I suspect that those who support Lance will continue to do so no matter what is written here.

Although we can suspect that LA was not 100% clean - we have yet to see any physical evidence to support that - just heresay. 
Flandis has certainly revealed a lot about how riders get around the biological passport that sounds plausible - as for his personal accusations against specific riders, incl. Lance, it seems they are not supported by any evidence. 

For example - lots of people are putting a lot of weight on Landis' statement that LA told him how to dope without getting caught. Perhaps, but I could tell you how to cook crack in your basement - does that prove that I do it?

Lacking an admission (Riis, Landis), or physical evidence (Valverde) - I might still assume that they all doped back then (and perhaps still are) - but that's all it will ever be - an openion with indicators, but no basis in factual evidence.


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## zion rasta (Aug 15, 2004)

I think you have to dope just to finish Le tour.... 21 days of cycling over hundred miles daily, yeah...**** I'd take something too...


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## Bridgey (Mar 26, 2003)

There is nothing superhuman about Lance when compared to other pro cyclist, other than his ego, blatant lies and perhaps business sense. 

Phil Anderson summed it up well when a commentator talked about LA's pre cancer results proving his unique abilities. Phil said, before cancer no one in a million years would have considered Lance a future tour winner. He couldn't climb or timetrial. Lance even admitted this in his book. Big Mig was the only one who didn't laugh at him, but rather asked his training regime (probably pharmacist in real life). 

In my opinion, LA's whole team during the 7 wins appeared superhuman. How do they end up dropping half the peleton yet control the race and still have most of the riders on the last mountain. Unbelieveable. I think they either had technology advancements like the internal motor we are hearing about or better dope than the rest. How many went down for drugs after leaving Discovery? Most of them. 

In fact I wouldn't be suprised if LA had some kind of Genetic manipulation (offered himself as a test dummy) in order to survive cancer. They have created the ability to make Rats 1/3 stronger and faster, but 1/3 more aggressive and 1/3 more energy requirements (food). LA being such good friends with that criminal George Bush, who knows what medical technological procedures he was able to sign up for, that are hidden from the normal person. 

All I know is that Big Mig once caught pre-cancer and doped up LA for 5mins in a timetrial and flew past him like he was standing still. then all of a sudden he comes back and can timetrial like Big Mig and climb like Pantani??? Losing some body weight (which is again disputed) won't help you with this. Lance is one of the biggest but smartest frauds in the history of cycling. Nothing superhuman about him. An average pro with good connections.


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## redlizard (Jul 26, 2007)

Bridgey said:


> Nothing superhuman about him. An average pro with good connections.


So you're saying it's all about connections. What is it about the many hundreds of other pros out there (at least half of which are better than LA, since he's just avg) that keeps them from forming connections? Are they all just social misfits, mouth breathing cocktail bores or secretly on LA's payroll? Or maybe one of LA's secret connections shot them up with SDDs (social dehancing drugs) while they slept... :thumbsup: 

And George Bush is involved????


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

Nothing superhuman about him. An average pro with good connections.[/QUOTE]

I don't disagree with many things you said (like how his team dropped most of the peloton in the hills, even none climbers in his team), and not a huge LA fan here, but as far as I'm concerned he is innocent until proven guilty.
Also, he is more than average pro with or without connection, IMO.....


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

redlizard said:


> ...And George Bush is involved???? ...


I _knew_ it!
Those [email protected] Texans...


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## Bridgey (Mar 26, 2003)

Okay an average pro is probably a bit harsh, but he certainly wasn't considered a champion to be feared by all pro's in the classics or smaller Stage races. What did LA do before his cancer. Sure he won the World Championships on a stormy rainy day because he took a chance to attack downhill where others like Indurain showed a little more caution. Had it been dry he wouldn't have won. But good on him, he deserved it. 

What else did he win other than that, that made him such a champion. A stage of the Tour de France and a classic. Okay the average cyclist might get lucky and win one of these, but he wasn't exactly a Bettini or a Tom Boonen. He still showed no signs of being a future tour winner. He was more like a dark horse for the hilly classics rather than considered a potential winner with the other favourites like Bettini.

He totally transformed in every way after his cancer. Considering he was already on dope before, it means he got something most of the others didn't have.


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## zion rasta (Aug 15, 2004)

*How about obsession?*



Bridgey said:


> Okay an average pro is probably a bit harsh, but he certainly wasn't considered a champion to be feared by all pro's in the classics or smaller Stage races. What did LA do before his cancer. Sure he won the World Championships on a stormy rainy day because he took a chance to attack downhill where others like Indurain showed a little more caution. Had it been dry he wouldn't have won. But good on him, he deserved it.
> 
> What else did he win other than that, that made him such a champion. A stage of the Tour de France and a classic. Okay the average cyclist might get lucky and win one of these, but he wasn't exactly a Bettini or a Tom Boonen. He still showed no signs of being a future tour winner. He was more like a dark horse for the hilly classics rather than considered a potential winner with the other favourites like Bettini.
> 
> He totally transformed in every way after his cancer. Considering he was already on dope before, it means he got something most of the others didn't have.


Let's assume that if other riders knew LA or anyone had an edge with a particular doping system, they would dope too. So now we are leveled on the field.

What gave the edge to Lance? He is a cycling junkie. Training, training, training, and more training. That is why he can't keep a girl. He loves cycling over everything else. Too the extreme. Good for us to watch and admire but with many sacrifices.
He is an antisocial selfish egotistical bastard with an appetite to compete and win.
Do I like seeing him on the bike - yes. Do I want to be like Lance? No, Ride like him? No, given the sacrifices.

Whether he doped or not, who cares, he has got a lot of people motivated to stay healthy and live a healthier life while helping people with cancer and has also been great for the bike industry and the sport. - That is what matters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LA sacrificed himself, body, and family for the sport.

It is what it is and the result has been fantastic for the sport. In fact I was pissed with that whole Operacion Puerto bull $h!t. All my favorate super heros got caught with their super power source - dope. So 2006 was a boring race.... Vino, the chicken and then Landis all got caught later. I could not have cared either way.

All of you that are so angry about whether LA is a cheat or not, well.... Lets say doping was legal. Would you do the blood transfusions, take testosterone, EPO, HGH, Amphetamines, Cocaine, and all the other synthetic crap dopers dope with?

Blow some coke before your next group ride, and take some cheap steroids from Mexico, it will give you an edge..... There is no one testing on Sat rides that I know of.....

Idiots.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Bridgey said:


> Nothing superhuman about him. An average pro with good connections.


Lance was the youngest World Champion ever, he raced at the front in Tri's with the pros when he was 15-16. He won lots of races pre-cancer. There is no connection on earth that can take an average pro to 7 TdF wins. Lance's teams were not that remarkable when you consider what was paid for them. They were the NY Yankees of pro cycling and they rode the same strategy that brought Big Mig to 5 TdF wins.


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## Bridgey (Mar 26, 2003)

You don't think others train as hard as Lance. If he trained as much as your suggesting, he'd burn out before the Tour. Others train just as hard, perhaps not as smart. 

How can you say all doping products are equal. You don't think there are companies trying to make the next best thing? Or some that costs a lot more than others. I wouldn't be suprised if Amstrong did have his own unique source before others. If you share common sources you end up like Ullrich/Basso and gang. Better to be one of a few. Likewise the doctors that administer it vary in costs. 

Lemond himself said that EPO work better with heavier riders than the smaller ones. Again, without dope there is nothing that special about Lance. If all were clean, he wouldn't have even won 1 tour nor would be capable of it.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Bridgey said:


> Okay an average pro is probably a bit harsh, but he certainly wasn't considered a champion to be feared by all pro's in the classics or smaller Stage races. What did LA do before his cancer. Sure he won the World Championships on a stormy rainy day because he took a chance to attack downhill where others like Indurain showed a little more caution. Had it been dry he wouldn't have won. But good on him, he deserved it.
> 
> What else did he win other than that, that made him such a champion. A stage of the Tour de France and a classic. Okay the average cyclist might get lucky and win one of these, but he wasn't exactly a Bettini or a Tom Boonen. He still showed no signs of being a future tour winner. He was more like a dark horse for the hilly classics rather than considered a potential winner with the other favourites like Bettini.


what a wonderful mismatch of statistics to base a comparison on. 
What had Bettini won at the age of 25 and what had Armstrong won?


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## Bridgey (Mar 26, 2003)

den bakker said:


> what a wonderful mismatch of statistics to base a comparison on.
> What had Bettini won at the age of 25 and what had Armstrong won?


I understand what your saying, however, riders like Bettini, Boonen, Pantani, Ullrich and even Indurain etc or showed their potential at the earliest of ages. Armstrong however, showed absolutely no potential to be able to climb or timetrial (backed up by Phil Anderson) and suddenly he is a champion at both. His only potential was that he had great endurance and therefore was an attacking rider and was okay in the hills. There is something wrong with that picture.


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

Bridgey said:


> In my opinion, LA's whole team during the 7 wins appeared superhuman. How do they end up dropping half the peleton yet control the race and still have most of the riders on the last mountain. Unbelieveable. I think they either had technology advancements like the internal motor we are hearing about or better dope than the rest. How many went down for drugs after leaving Discovery? Most of them.


I've been following pro cycling for over two decades, more closely at times than others, but closely enough that I had time to acclimate to the changes in racing through the 90s and into the first several years of this decade. I've followed pretty closely over the most recent five years. I happened to catch some video of the early Armstrong wins at the TdF recently, just after having watched every day of this year's Giro, and "unbelievable" was exactly what I thought. Maybe cycling really is a bit cleaner now than it was ten years ago.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

davidka said:


> Lance was the youngest World Champion ever, he raced at the front in Tri's with the pros when he was 15-16. He won lots of races pre-cancer. There is no connection on earth that can take an average pro to 7 TdF wins. Lance's teams were not that remarkable when you consider what was paid for them. They were the NY Yankees of pro cycling and they rode the same strategy that brought Big Mig to 5 TdF wins.



You are a true believer in these cyclists' intergrity. You shot down the Cancellara motor concept, now LA and doping. I HOPE YOU ARE CORRECT! I will be very happy if you are. 

I once was like you. I have come to accept that many dope and cheat....possibly even the domestiques need EPO to survive the TdF.

Having said that, I look forward to a clean tour in the future. Still love the sport though and I am counting the days to TdF baby!


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## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

Remember LA's "horrible" time trial performance in the '04 Tour? When he lost a bunch of time to Ullrich and the Postal Team's official line was he suffered dehydration...I always wondered what the real story was behind that ITT. I think his preparation might have been thrown off....


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

rydbyk said:


> You are a true believer in these cyclists' intergrity. You shot down the Cancellara motor concept, now LA and doping. I HOPE YOU ARE CORRECT! I will be very happy if you are.
> 
> I once was like you. I have come to accept that many dope and cheat....possibly even the domestiques need EPO to survive the TdF.
> 
> Having said that, I look forward to a clean tour in the future. Still love the sport though and I am counting the days to TdF baby!


To be clearer on my stance, I did not challenge the point in this thread out of a belief that Lance was clean or not. Regardless of whether or not he won clean, it cannot be credibly argued that he is not a special elite athlete. He decimated his competion at the height of this generation. Everybody was on the sauce then, I can see the writing on the wall.

Bridgey, you have it exactly backwards. Fact is, Lance demonstrated himself to be freakishly talented from the very beginning (was held back from turning pro at 19 to race the Barcelona olympics, botched the tactics and still got 4th) and Indurain and Bettini both developed more gradually with Bettini being Bartoli's understudy and Indurain being Pedro Delgado's. Lance was built like a linebacker pre-1998 so naturally he would not be a great climber in the big hills then.


These hate Lance threads crack me up. People want so badly to belive that he cheated in some way that he alone invented and nobody else had, therefore making him the worst evil the sport has ever seen. Ridiculous.


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

davidka said:


> These hate Lance threads crack me up. People want so badly to belive that he cheated in some way that he alone invented and nobody else had, therefore making him the worst evil the sport has ever seen. Ridiculous.


Exactly. They hate him not only for cheating but for being a BETTER cheater than everyone else.

Lance gets the Bibles, ropes, and pitchforks. If Postal does get exposed, I imagine Hincapie will keep riding around in the ol' Stars and Stripes and everyone will just forgive him since he was Lance's unwitting pawn.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

*True Believers!*



rydbyk said:


> You are a true believer in these cyclists' intergrity. You shot down the Cancellara motor concept, now LA and doping. I HOPE YOU ARE CORRECT! I will be very happy if you are.
> 
> I once was like you. I have come to accept that many dope and cheat....possibly even the domestiques need EPO to survive the TdF.
> 
> Having said that, I look forward to a clean tour in the future. Still love the sport though and I am counting the days to TdF baby!


Darn, I thought it was me that shot down the Fabian Conspiracy Theory!  

Congrats Davidka! :thumbsup:


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## aliensporebomb (Jul 2, 2002)

I seem to remember something about a cracked seatstay on his bike too.

I dunno, dehydration? Lack of sleep? Something was off. 

Party too late the night before?


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## tomcho (Jan 30, 2010)

Bridgey said:


> He totally transformed in every way after his cancer. Considering he was already on dope before, it means he got something most of the others didn't have.


It's one thing to have an unhealthy dislike of LA, many people do for a wide range of reasons but to say cancer somehow helped him is absolutely absurd. It's clear you've never watched someone you were close to get ravaged by the very drugs that are saving their lives.


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## slegros (Sep 22, 2009)

Rage_Cycling said:


> Maybe he did dope fact is most were back then so he still won 7 TDF he is still a hell of a rider IMO.


I agree, several things remain:

1) If he did dope he either did it better, or to a lesser extent than his competitors as he was never caught (or its all a massive cover-up if you believe the conspiracy theorists)

2)He displayed amazing consistency.... Doping or not, he was far more consistent and better prepared for the tour than any of the top riders of his era with the possible exception of Ullrich.

3)Even if they were all doping-Lance still won....


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## Big-foot (Dec 14, 2002)

http://www.scribd.com/doc/16226502/Lance-Armstrong-Doping-History


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## mikeman (Sep 17, 2005)

zero85ZEN said:


> Remember LA's "horrible" time trial performance in the '04 Tour? When he lost a bunch of time to Ullrich and the Postal Team's official line was he suffered dehydration...I always wondered what the real story was behind that ITT. I think his preparation might have been thrown off....


That was 2003. He dominated again in 04 & 05.


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