# Trek 5.9SL Madone or Cannondale Synapse?



## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

I have narrowed down my search for a new road bike and need some input. I am upgrading from an '01 Trek 5200OCLV 120/Ultegra/Rolf Vector Comps/King headset. (otherwise stock)

I've test ridden several bikes: Pinarello Prince, F-413, Orbea Opal, Scott CR-1, Trek 5.9SL Madone, Specialized Roubaix Comp (No Roubaix Pro's available), Cannondale Synapse 1 Carbon.All bikes were Dura-ace spec'd or Campy Chorus with simlar quality wheels and other parts. 

I immediately liked the ride of the Cannondale Synapse. On the Trek 5.9SL Madone, I immediately felt a quickness and lightness that no other bike presented. Was it just in my head? I don't think so. I swapped pedals right after riding the Orba Opal and the Trek is just like a rocket. I really didn't want to love the Synapse, but I can't get it's ride and comfort off my mind either. It is the best value/spec'd bike and cheaper than my other front Runner, New '05 Trek 5.9SL Madone. 

I realize they are different steeds, the Trek being more a race bike/climber, and the Synapse more of a comfort/performance bike. Both are very smooth, both fit well, both have Dura-ace 10 spd (sweet), great wheels (Trek: Bontrager Race X Lite Special edition with laser engraved graphics), Synapse: (Kysrium SL's) both have nice carbon frames, carbon bars, carbon forks etc. 

I am 49, do mostly group rides, distance rides, an occassional Century with most rides being 30-60 miles. I don't race, but I do push my own limits and love going fast downhills. I climb like a beginner (turtle). So a good climber that will make it as easy as possible is a plus. I am 190lbs and usually bottom out around 180lbs. Comfort is important to me. But I think both bikes are very comfy. The synapse is probably a bit more forgiving, but the lightness and responsiveness of the Trek Madone is calling me loudly. 

Considerations:

The new Madone 5.0 SL feels very "very" quick and responsive. Much more so than the Synapse. It just feels like a rocket by comparison. The Synapse however offers a Compact crank that will help me climbing and it has FSA K wing bars which I love. I would pay extra to upgrade both on the Trek Madone. On longer rides, will I be more comfortable and happier on a Synapse? Or are they so close, I should go with the lighter, quicker Madone? I am highly seduced by the Trek 5.9SL Madone after riding it. I also think it will hold it's value better over the next 5 years.

I can get the 05 Trek Madone 5.9 SL with the Special edition Bontrager Race X Lite Wheels (laser etched) for $4500. The Synapse is $4400 with Ksyrium SL's, Compact Crank and FSA K wing bar that I would pay to upgrade on the Trek. But I still feel the Trek is quicker and may be the better value in the long run. 

Help! Opinions are welcome. Are the Bontager laser Etched Race X-lites as good, same or better than Ksyrium SL's for a rider of my weight? They feel smoother and are quieter. They both look great. Thanks! Gary


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## peabody (Oct 17, 2005)

*the bontrager*

wheels are higher end and lighter, unless they were the ssc sl mavic wheels.
i would do the madone, its a higher end bike and not made in china if that means
anything to you.


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## tubafreak (Apr 24, 2006)

From what you've written it sounds like the Madone is speaking to you. If the price difference is negligible (it sounds like it is) then get the Trek and put on the extra components you want, you'll be much happier with the bike and be more likely to get out and ride.


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## collectorvelo (Oct 30, 2003)

*too much*

both these bikes are way over priced for the spec you get
especially the Cannondale which has a frame made in China [same factory as used by Fuji and Specialized]

I would really look for a dealer that would cut me a deal on the bike; and also consider the Fuji which you can get for much less money


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## rule (Dec 2, 2004)

My thoughts exactly.


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## fredf (Aug 13, 2004)

I'm 54 and 2 years ago I was deciding between a Trek 5200 and a Specialized Roubaix carbon. I decided on the Trek because, like you, I felt it was a bit 'racier' or quicker.
Now I think I should have gotten the Specialized....as I ride more mileage I appreciate the value of comfort.

From what I hear, the Synapse is certainly no slouch. Think very carefully what you value most. The Synapse is not likely to disappoint you.

Although I understand about buying what speaks to you....use your head as well.


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## Piles (Jun 25, 2004)

Ive ridden both the bikes you speak of and must say, the Synapse is a very comfortable ride. However dont think just because the Synapse is comfy that its not quick. It is. 
That being said i found both the bikes to feel very uninspiring. In car terms, theres not enough feedback of whats going on. My ride is a real shaker and would have it no other way, i love it. Forget about what everybody says and buy the bike you love. If its comfort thats your biggest concern, then buy the most comfortable. Whatever you believe it to be and despite where its made or what name it has on the down tube.


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## The Carlster (Sep 16, 2005)

I realize this is not answering the Q per se - but if you dont' look at the 613 you'll be selling yourself short. I paid more for the 613 than I would have for a Madone 5.9 and am incredibally glad I did.


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

peabody said:


> wheels are higher end and lighter, unless they were the ssc sl mavic wheels.
> i would do the madone, its a higher end bike and not made in china if that means
> anything to you.



The Wheels on the Cannondale Synapse are the Mavic Ksyrium SSC SL Wheels. How do these compare with the Bontrager Special Edition Race X-Lites? I felt like the Bontrager were a bit faster and more compliant. The Mavic Ksyrium SSC SL's are stiffer, and the hub rachets more loudly which I am not fond of, but it is not bad and is not a deal breaker. I've read all the reviews on Roadbike about both wheels and it seems that both have many riders who love them and never had any trouble, and others have had wheel splits and spokes pull out. My Trek dealer says he's seen that on Ksyriums SSC SL's more often than anything. Says the Bontrager X Lites are a better ride and more reliable. I've heard the exact opposite from other sources. What do you guys think? 

The weight difference between the X Lites and the Kysrium SL's is not that great to be of much relevance. Although I've read the cross winds affect the Mavic wheels a bit more.


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

The Carlster said:


> I realize this is not answering the Q per se - but if you dont' look at the 613 you'll be selling yourself short. I paid more for the 613 than I would have for a Madone 5.9 and am incredibally glad I did.


I'll Test Ride a 613 for sure. I've read too many rave reviews to not check it out as well. Did you compare the ride qualities of the 613 to the Madone SL by any chance? Ride both? Any idea how the 613 compare with the CAAD 8? I've heard the CAAD 8 is surprisingly comfy.


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## asawlrider123456789 (Dec 22, 2005)

I've ridden al of these and what I think your favorite would be is the 6/13. I have one and it's pretty sweet. It's very fast and very comfy. Though my race day preference is a Scott CR1 I really enjoy the cannondale. The 6/13 is definately more comfortablethan the scott. I would ride 'em and don't be biased at all. Which, I know is almost impossible, it will bring out the best choice for you.


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## shoerhino (Aug 13, 2004)

If you currently own a 5200 and like the fit reasonable well (and assuming the geometry has not changed much), you know that the Madone in the comparable size will fit. Did the sizing of the Synapse seem to be an issue at all, especially since the frame sizes are 3 CM apart? Something to consider…

I just purchased a 5.2 SL Madone as an upgrade from a 2100. I had to laugh when you called the Madone a rocket because that's how I described when compared to the 2100. I know that bikes aren't inherently fast but the Madone definitely has a fast feeling... 

If you are worried about needing to be more upright for longer rides, you can always flip the stem up or change to a shorter stem before a longer ride. Stems are easy to change.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=60654


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## The Carlster (Sep 16, 2005)

I did ride the madone - and a friend of mine has one in the right size (w/ the aero seat tube) so I've ridden his for more than a test ride. I liked the c-dale 613 more - faster, quicker, more responsive & stiffer but yet very comfortable. If you think about it - it makes sense to have the a$$ end of a bike as stiff as possible [power transmission] i.e. AL and then have the main frame (at least 2 tubes of it) CF for the comfort factor. I could have had a brand new madone for $2K and instead I paid $2.5K for the 613 and IMHO it was a good $500 'upgrade.' (note: I'm also not a huge trek fan as so many people have them and the resulting 'dork' factor is high for that brand  ) 

The same friend has a c-dale Caad 8 (race bike so he's not out $5K if he crashes) and he likes it - it's super stiff and fast feeling & he said it's surprisingly comfy for an AL bike - he was having trouble distinguishing noticible differences between that and his madone. For the $$ it's a great frame. I have not ridden the Caad 8 though. If you want the latest & greatest, a CF bike or Al/CF bike is the schizzle, but if you want best bang for the buck, the caad 8 is likely worth a look IMHO.


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

I will test ride a Cannondale Six13 soon. The shop that has the Synapse also has a Special Edition R6000 CAAD8 / Dura-Ace/Ksyrium bike for cheap. It is like $1000 less than the Synapse or Six13. That is enough money to make me want to check it out.

Even though I am seduced by the quick, fast response of the Trek 5.9SL Madone, ultimately, I am not a racer, but rather a group/distance/fitness ride who wants to be comfy over the long haul, but also be able to climb better and not be fighting the bike. I think I need to keep focus that I want to be comfortable with groups in longer rides. I like to push my own personal limits and go as fast as possible, but I am not competitive. So maybe the full-on 'race-bike' even though more responsive is not the best choice for me?

Does anybody have any opinions on the Bontrager Race X-Lite Wheels versus Mavic Ksyrium SSC SL's? 

I've heard the Mavics have issues with spoke nipples pulling out of the rims and that the bigger bladed spokes are more challenging in crosswinds.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

trek5200cs said:


> I will test ride a Cannondale Six13 soon. The shop that has the Synapse also has a Special Edition R6000 CAAD8 / Dura-Ace/Ksyrium bike for cheap. It is like $1000 less than the Synapse or Six13. That is enough money to make me want to check it out.
> 
> Even though I am seduced by the quick, fast response of the Trek 5.9SL Madone, ultimately, I am not a racer, but rather a group/distance/fitness ride who wants to be comfy over the long haul, but also be able to climb better and not be fighting the bike. I think I need to keep focus that I want to be comfortable with groups in longer rides. I like to push my own personal limits and go as fast as possible, but I am not competitive. So maybe the full-on 'race-bike' even though more responsive is not the best choice for me?
> 
> ...


IMO, it's the Mavic's over the Bontragers. I've seen the Bonti's pull spokes out of the hubs, and have seen the Mavic's take amazing amounts of abuse. 

My impressions of the Synapse vs the Trek would have me choosing the Synapse. The Trek felt a bit wooden to me, and the synapse was smooth but still lively. I didn't find the handling of the Trek to be that 'hot', nor the synapse to be that sleepy. Maybe there's a bit of difference in our respective weight distributions or such. Plus, that black-on-black finish had me drooling. 

If you are a long-haul trucker, comfy is an important part of fast. Unless you're running crits, hotter handling ends up being tiring with lots of saddle time. 

I should confess that my first love was a beer-can-tube C-dale, and Treks have always left me cold - simply on an emotional level. Now? I tested those, and chose Ti. Maybe I'm not the guy to listen to.


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## acid_rider (Nov 23, 2004)

*a vote for Specialized Roubaix carbon*

if you want long distance comfort and not planning on crit racing then I would consider Specialized Roubaix (Pro?).

I had a 2005 Roubaix Comp which is almost same as 2006 Pro (give or take a bit?) and it was really very comfortable. See the reviews of this web site for proof. Not best for crit racing or for twitchy fast mountain descents, perhaps, due to longer wheelbase and slower relaxed steering, but otherwise super comfortable and fast on any other open road. Sadly it was stolen from my house and I could not get another one unless I wanted to wait 2-3 months for new 2006 stock. So I now ride a 2005 Madone 5.9 (not SL) which is almost as comfortable (I was surprised) but with quicker handling/steering. Can't go wrong with either one, IMO.

Reviews of Six13 were great but it is not as comfortable/forgiving for distance riding as Madone or Roubaix (or Synapse?) due to its stiff aluminium rear end.

if you want comfort consider Look 555 as well. Bianchi 928 carbon might also be another good choice.

I am assuming you fit well on all of these, fit will determine the most comfort, IMO.


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## Insight Driver (Jan 27, 2006)

At your age the Synapse does feel more comfortable. It's because it's more ergonomically correct for you.

If you want to comfort and the abilty to go fast, the Synapse type of fit is really what you want. 

I don't have a production bike. I have a full-custom Calfee Tetra Pro. I'm sitting more upright, since I have a bad back and I like going fast. I also like piling on the miles. Having the correct ergonomic fit for your body, your strength, your flexibility, and your riding style means you would almost certainly be better-fit with a more-upright stance on any bike you get.

At the 45 miles point my riding buddy was getting tired. He commented after our ride of 55 miles that I always looked comfortable on my bike. I am, even when dog tired. Because the bike fits me like a glove and handles the way I like a bike to handle.

Learn about how the geometry of a bike affects handling and ride perception. Test riding is giving you the sense of how a bike feels. The geoomtry differences are the reason. Geomotry also includes wheel weight, wheel base, trail, and bottom bracket height. Other factors are the Q factor of the cranks, the stack height of the pedal/clipless system including the shoe, the width of the handlbars and the length of the cranks. Mix all these things together to make a bike that is a go-fast racing bike, a go-fast recreational bike or a twtichy rocket of a time trial bike or a rock stable touring geometry. It's not about the material, it's about the geometry.

I'm 53 and a pretty strong recreational rider.


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## shoerhino (Aug 13, 2004)

You may also want to ask your LBS about the proprietary bottom bracket and crank that is used on some Cannondales called the Cannondale SI. It's my understanding that this bottom bracket and crank are uniquely designed for each other which would mean that when the bottom bracket wears, you will need to buy a Cannondale bottom bracket as a replacement, if you want to keep the Cannondale crank. Not sure if that's true or not... Maybe someone out here knows for sure.

If that is the case, I would opt for a Cannondale with a non-proprietary drive train, as replacement parts are likely to be cheaper and more widely available. I think my LBS said that they can install a normal crank on a Cannondale with some adapter cups that fit in the bottom bracket.


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

I haven't every worn out a bottom bracket, although I suppose it's possible. Additionally, the oversized Cannondale BB is part of the reason the bike does not flex when standing and sprinting. It is very stiff and responsive. Not sure if they warranty the BB for life or not. The frame, yes. But not a big deal to me. The Synapse Carbon can be had with either Compact Carbon Crank (FSA-made for Cannondale) or Ultegra (or) Dura-Ace cranks (The models I was looking were the Synapse 1 or 2)


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## fredf (Aug 13, 2004)

A bottom bracket is anywhere from $50 to $100. So if the Cannondale costs, say 25% more than any other, we're looking at no mroe than $25.

For $25 your going to re-consider the purchase of a $3000 bike?


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## shoerhino (Aug 13, 2004)

It is true that it may not cost that much more but I'm still more comfortable with the standard equipment made by numerous manufacturers. I would think that standard drive train parts would be easier to come across than Cannondale specific parts and would make life easier for future repairs but honestly, I don’t think anyone knows if that will be a problem or not. I'm not trying to say it will be problem, but it could be. The Synapse is a great bike - just another point to think about when buying an expensive bike.

Trek5200cs - do you have the field narrowed down any further? I thought you mentioned that you preferred the idea of having a more relaxed ride and probably wouldn't get bike with race geometry. Have you been on any new test rides lately?


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

fredf said:


> A bottom bracket is anywhere from $50 to $100. So if the Cannondale costs, say 25% more than any other, we're looking at no mroe than $25.
> 
> For $25 your going to re-consider the purchase of a $3000 bike?


Thanks FredF. I toitally agree with you. That was my point. I put no stock in the potential issue of a bottom bracket failure. Not a big deal to me. Nor do I think Cannondale has skimped in an area that takes a significant amount of weight of the rider. The fact that under my weight (193lbs today) I felt Zero flex when standing and sprinting tells me the bottom bracket on the Cannondale Synapses is well designed and very stiff. No worries for me in that regard. I am more concerned about getting the best wheels. Looks like those Mavic Ksyrium SSC SL's are very highly regarded.


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## dawgcatching (Apr 26, 2004)

Don't Treks and Cannondales fit quite a bit differently? I would assume that fit would be your first determination at this price point. I am sure both are great bikes. I haven't ridden a Madone, so I can't comment there. The Synapse is a great bike for everything from stage racing to all-day riding. I have some time on one, and it is very stiff at the BB, just a touch slower than neutral, very light, snappy, and comfortable. It actually felt alot like my old Colnago CT1, but stiffer and alot lighter. A friend of mine who is a very strong Cat3 races and trains on his and swears it is the best bike around (he rides 20 hours a week). I used to have a Six13, and there wasn't much difference between that bike and my CAAD8-nothing dropping 10psi in the tires wouldn't fix. If you don't need a crit bike, the Synapse may be hard to beat. When I get some more time on one, I will try to post a pro/con review of it vs. the Six13 and some other bikes I have extensive time on.


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

shoerhino said:


> Trek5200cs - do you have the field narrowed down any further? I thought you mentioned that you preferred the idea of having a more relaxed ride and probably wouldn't get bike with race geometry. Have you been on any new test rides lately?



Hey Shoerhino, 

I have not been on any other test rides this week. (although I did test Ride a Specialized Roubaix Comp) It just didn't speak to me. 

My front runners continue to be the Synapse for long term comfort. It is plenty stiff, fits well and as I said before, each time I get on it, I instantly like how it feels and handles. Moreso than the Orbea Opal (Which is drop dead gorgeous! ..and more $$$) Only in comparison to the Synapse did the Trek 5.9SL Madone feel quicker. I am seduced by the rocket like sprinting quicknes and agility of the Trek 5,9SL Madone, But I don't believe on longer rides, that particular agile quality will matter to me as much as overall comfort, riding position etc. What haunts me however is that it is a lighter bike, and I think I would appreciate that lightnessm responsiveness and quickness when climbing. (which I'm not that great at. So any help is extremely welcome)

I still want to ride a Cannondale Six13 since they are so highly regarded. But again, that is more of a race geometry. In fairness, my current '01 OCLV Trek 5200 is the same geometry as the Madone, (race geometry) and it has been reasonably comfortable over the long haul. Many claim that Trek Carbon has a dead/wooden feel. If that's true, I have only found it to be what I would call 'smooth'. No cokmplaints from me in that regard. Is it better or worse than the Carbon Synapse? I probably won't know that until I put 40-50 miles in the saddle. That is so hard to determine on a test ride. I don;t take parking lot test rides. I do put in 10-15 miles, but it's not the same as a 30-50 mile ride. That is when I would notice the long term benefits and comfort of the more relaxed geometry.

For all intents and purposes, I am still deciding between the Cannondale Synapse and that new '05 model Trek 5.9SL Madone with Special edition Bontrager Laser Etched Race X lite wheels. 

What a great thread. Thanks to everyone for chiming in.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

If you can, do a test ride at the end of a long ride on your current bike. Then you are more likely to notice comfort issues. If you want to do long rides, you don't want a bike that's going to start getting uncomfortable well before the end of the ride.

The actual difference in climbing speeds between two bikes is mostly due to the weight difference. If the Trek is more than two pounds lighter than the Synapse I'd be suprised. The combined difference (you + gear + bike) would then be less than 1%. You can do the math on analyticcycling.com to see what difference that pound or two will make on your favorite climb, but it won't be much. Having the appropriate gearing and arriving at the bottom of the climb feeling fresh and ready to go is worth more. Of course if the Trek is still comfortable to you in that situation, and it feels nicer, its the bike for you.


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## footballcat (Jul 8, 2004)

My story with trek.

Last year no one on my race team road a trek, we all road giants, scotts, pinarellos, lunas. this year we all ride madones, and everyone says they are the best bike they have ever riden on. 

Go with the trek, i know stores selling 5.9 for under 4k


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

footballcat said:


> My story with trek.
> 
> Last year no one on my race team road a trek, we all road giants, scotts, pinarellos, lunas. this year we all ride madones, and everyone says they are the best bike they have ever riden on.
> 
> Go with the trek, i know stores selling 5.9 for under 4k


5.9SL's for under $4K? can you send a private message or email and let me know where? What is it that your team likes better about the Madone? That is a very impressive list of high end bikes you are comparing it to. Granted, I don't race. Do you still think the Trek offers the ride and comfort compared with the Scott's, PInarello's etc? thanks. Nice report.


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## jarhead-usmc (Aug 22, 2005)

I also have a 2005 Madone 5.9 SL which is a truly amazing bike. But if you are not into fast training rides or racing and prefer comfort. I would recommend the Synapse.


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

new option: Went to my LBS today. I hurt my back this week so I was unable to test ride. This is the shop that has the Synapse. I wanted to check out a Six13 up close. But they didn't have any in my size. They did however have a New / Special edition CAAD8 R6000, Silver finish, full Campy RECORD, Mavic Ksyrium SL's ....for like $3200! TThat's like $1200 less than the other bikes I was looking at. But this is an all AL bike. No carbon. I want to test ride it anyway because it seems like a great deal.

Any thoughts on how a CAAD8 Frame compares with a Carbon like the Trek Madone or the Cannondale Synapse? Should I just stick to the carbon? (I am really am more into comfort over longer group rides. 40 miles up to centuries. Again, I am 190 lbs. Thanks!


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## ralph1 (May 20, 2006)

*CAAD 8 comments*

Hi all,

I have recently picked up my 60cm CAAD 8 R5000 with the following build list:
full D/A (including BB, and cranks),
Ksyruim ES wheelset,
WCS seatpost, stem and bars,
Conti Attack Force tyres,
Carbon headset,
Slice Premium + forks,
7800 pedals,
SLR XP saddle
All up it's 7.4kg as you see it.

I jumped from a CAAD 7 with D/A 9spd and Kys SLs, these bikes are I feel fantastic bikes, I have riden Giants, Specialized, Avanti, and this will do me. I was tossing up between the Madone 5.9 SL, Scott CR1 and the Cannondale won out. All up it was $6400 AUD. Here is a pic of the beast.
It was 1k cheaper than the 6/13 or the Madone, so in the end it won hands down. As other people have said go with the bike which feels the best for you. All the bikes mentioned are very good bikes. 

cheers

Ralph


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

Wow Ralph. Your CAAD8 is stunning! THose wheels are off the hook and go well with the paint scheme. Did you like the ride of the CAAD8 more than the Madone or the Scottt CR-1? or was it the value that won you over for the cost savings? (or maybe all of the above?)


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## jarhead-usmc (Aug 22, 2005)

My 2005 Madone 5.9 SL (6400 miles)


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## footballcat (Jul 8, 2004)

if you road a caad 8 it will handle the same as a 6/13 as they have the same frame geo, No one on our team road a caad 8, but they are a very good bang for the bux. 

Everyone on the team like the stiffness, of the frame, how forgiving they are, and how well they handle. 

Last year a guy was riding a Bianica Luna, and road his 5.5 this year, and said its the best bike hes ever ridden, hes been racing since college and hes 40. 


Before i would drop any money on a bike i would test ride everything i find though. ride the caad 8, the 6/13 the snypse, to madone or a 5200, pilot, tarmac, e5, giant, i mean just ride everything you can, we are all different


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## ralph1 (May 20, 2006)

trek5200cs said:


> Wow Ralph. Your CAAD8 is stunning! THose wheels are off the hook and go well with the paint scheme. Did you like the ride of the CAAD8 more than the Madone or the Scottt CR-1? or was it the value that won you over for the cost savings? (or maybe all of the above?)


I didn't ride the Trek or the CR1, but was quite happy to stick with the Dale. I like the Trek however, was a bit dubious in laying down the reddies on an unkwown product, as I said I like the Dale. The CR1 was a harder choice, I was ready to slap down tha cash but the only thing stopping me was they don't come with a replaceable rear derailuer hanger.......now I know it may be something small for some people but if I lay it over in a crash or drop it and snap it, the frame is buggered. Oh and cost saving as well.

cheers

Ralph


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

I am 90% that I am going to pull the trigger on the Cannondale Synapse 1 Carbon, Full Dura-Ace. I still want to ride the CAAD8. but overall distance comfort is of huge importance to me. I've test ridden the Synapse twice now and each time, I instantly like how it felt, how it rode. The specs, the K Wing handlebar, the seat, the Ksyrium SSC SL Wheels, Compact crank, and most of all the more relaxed geometry which to this 49 year old who's back is getting more and more whiney, I just think I'll be more comfortable on the longer rides, climbs etc. Still have not pulled the trigger, but I am very close. The shop I am dealing with is exceptional and they have taken a Lot of time fitting me, helping me with test rides etc.

Should I expect them to discount the bike at all? They are standing firm on the 'retail' price. With all the service they are providing, I am not entirely opposed to paying the asking price (retail) as I'm sure I'll get that back in service after the sale, deals on parts, Look Keo Carbon Pedals, Mavic stem mount Computer etc. 

Gary


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## shoerhino (Aug 13, 2004)

Cool! Let us know what you decide and how the six13 handles.


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

shoerhino said:


> Cool! Let us know what you decide and how the six13 handles.


Unfortunately, the LBS that has the Carbon Synapse 1 (Dura-Ace) does not have a Six-13 in my size. Not even close. I ride a 58cm and they only have a 52cm Six-13. They do however have a CAAD8 R6000 with full Campy Record in exactly my size. How different is the ride quality of the CAAD8 compared to a Six13? Seems that everyone finds the Six13 to be more compliant/comfy than the CAAD8, but not dramatically different. This makes sense. But this Special Edition R6000 is almost stupid cheap considering it has Ksyrium SL's, Full Campy Record, Fisik Saddle, great bars, stem etc. It's $3200. THe Synapse is $4400. The Six13 is about $4400 as well.

I am going to test ride the Synapse and the CAAD8 at the same shop tomorrow to see how different they feel. I realize the CAAD8 is full race geometry and will be stiffer with faster steering. But I've also heard the CAAD8 is a very comfy frame for an AL bike. I welcome feedback from anyone who has ridden the CAAD8 in comparison to either a Synapse Carbon, or the Six13? 

Lastly, should I expect the LBS to give me some kind of discount on the bike (off retail?) They are doing their level best to get full retail and nothing less. Tax alone is like $350 USD! Ouch. I don't really need any other accessories besides new Look Keo Pedals/Cleats/Computer and maybe a new helmet. It's been a few years on my old Giro Pneumo. 
Thanks!


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

PS: Been ebay'ing a bunch of my old stuff and making some quick cash, so I'm REALLY close to pulling the trigger on a new bike.

I could really use an opinion on whether it is customary to get some some sort of discount on a new bike like the Top-of-the-line, new Synapse 1 Carbon (or maybe Six13)? The LBS is standing firm on retail, but said they can work with me on the accessories. (Which I don't need much of) FWIW, I really like these guys and know they will take good care of my needs after the sale. They have been awesome so far. Don't mean to be greedy. It's just a lot of money to pay, when I know most any retail product has a markup that allows for some discounting. 

What has your collective experience been on a new bike, current model year? Did you get a deal, or pay full list?


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## shoerhino (Aug 13, 2004)

I paid the going rate for my new bike and didn't really haggle with them, but the price I paid was under retail but was the normal going price for the bike. Lot's of people in this area carry Trek so there is a little more competition.

The most important thing is to find a shop that will take care of you, which you've said that you know. Maybe you could say something like "I almost ready to make a decision. What's the absolute best price you could do for me?" Then, whatever price they throw out, you have to decide if it's acceptable or not. I think it's good to ask for a discount in a tasteful manner but I personally am reluctant haggle. To me, the $50 - $100 off that you may negotiate is not worth harming a good relationship. If something goes wrong with your bike, having the LBS on your side while working with the vendor is important.

You work hard for your money, just like the LBS. No harm in asking, but I wouldn't let it stop you.


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

shoerhino said:


> I paid the going rate for my new bike and didn't really haggle with them, but the price I paid was under retail but was the normal going price for the bike. Lot's of people in this area carry Trek so there is a little more competition.
> 
> The most important thing is to find a shop that will take care of you, which you've said that you know. Maybe you could say something like "I almost ready to make a decision. What's the absolute best price you could do for me?" Then, whatever price they throw out, you have to decide if it's acceptable or not. I think it's good to ask for a discount in a tasteful manner but I personally am reluctant haggle. To me, the $50 - $100 off that you may negotiate is not worth harming a good relationship. If something goes wrong with your bike, having the LBS on your side while working with the vendor is important.
> 
> You work hard for your money, just like the LBS. No harm in asking, but I wouldn't let it stop you.



Thanks man. That is GREAT advice. Very respectful. Honestly, I do respect that these guys want and need to keep their very nice, yet small, locally owned shop open for business. They also happen to be right around the corner from me and I do value a strong relationship. I feel it is customary to make some sort of deal as that is just business. I don't expect them to give it away, but I would hope for any sort of break as I will be a very good customer and reference for their shop. So everybody wins when we both flex a bit.

I stilll REALLY want to ride a Six13. ..and I think I should before buying the Synapse. For now, I am strongly leaning to the plush, more geometric friendly Synapse 1 carbon/Dura-ace.

One other consideration is whether to go Compact Crank (FSA/Cannondale) or stick with Dura-ace. Any suggestions? I'm 49, 190 lbs and have never been a good climber. Can use all the help I can get. But mostly I do what you would call 'flat' riding. Although, some of those slight inclines sure feel like 'climbing' to my legs. laughs


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## fredf (Aug 13, 2004)

go compact crank. I did on my Trek 5200...it's great.


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## shoerhino (Aug 13, 2004)

Trek5200CS - have you pulled the trigger on anything yet?


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

Hey Shoerhino ....On the fence ...Still trying to line up a test ride on a Six13 and also want to ride the CAAD8/CampyRecord/Ksryium SL bike. Will surely post when I get things figured out. I decided not to rush my decision since I want to "love" whatever I wind up with. The truth is, my 5200 is still a worthy steed, so I'm riding nonetheless. Gary (trek5200cs)


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## cptab (Sep 12, 2002)

*I'm looking too*

I just test 'drove' a Synapse w/ the compact crank/dura ace set up and it seemed fine. I'm coming off of a CAAD 5. Unfortunately, I had to think long and hard about the differences. It was slightly more relaxed (the Synapse) and took out some of the road buzz. Later in the day, I tested an Orbea Onix. Their geometry seems more traditional (looks more like my CAAD 5 or a Trek and less like a roubaix). Unfortunately, the stem was too long and probably needed to be flipped to be more 'relaxed.' Have you had a chance to test any carbon ORbeas? Does it make sense for someone who is looking for something more relaxed or smooth (i.e., me) to test an ORbea? 

I'm testing the roubaix and madone 5.2 soon.


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## R.Rice (Aug 23, 2004)

trek5200cs said:


> Does anybody have any opinions on the Bontrager Race X-Lite Wheels versus Mavic Ksyrium SSC SL's?


I had a set of Race X-lites on a Trek 5500 I use to have.I currently have a set of SSC SL's on one of my Bianchis.

From what I can tell the SL's are stiffer and seem more "sturdy".I never felt confident on the X-lites.They were a little too flexy and I felt like they weren't such a good choice for every day wheels.I had about 5k miles on them when I sold the bike/wheels.The SL's are new to me and I have about 1,500 miles on them.

Both are good wheels.However,I wouldn't and didn't use the X-lites as every day/training wheels.


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

cptab said:


> I just test 'drove' a Synapse w/ the compact crank/dura ace set up and it seemed fine. I'm coming off of a CAAD 5. Unfortunately, I had to think long and hard about the differences. It was slightly more relaxed (the Synapse) and took out some of the road buzz. Later in the day, I tested an Orbea Onix. Their geometry seems more traditional (looks more like my CAAD 5 or a Trek and less like a roubaix). Unfortunately, the stem was too long and probably needed to be flipped to be more 'relaxed.' Have you had a chance to test any carbon ORbeas? Does it make sense for someone who is looking for something more relaxed or smooth (i.e., me) to test an ORbea?
> 
> I'm testing the roubaix and madone 5.2 soon.


 Yes I rode and Orbea Opal. It was a VERY nice bike. Smooth, Comfy, but not relaxed like the Synapse, but did not feel like an extremely aggresive race geometry either. Although it is clearly a race bike. I liked it, but would love to ride an Orca to see if they feel any different than the Opal. 

I plan to do some test riding on Tuesday. Will post my results.


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

More test rides today: 

Specialized Tarmac/Ultegra/Mavic Equippe wheels and Specialized S-Works Tarmac/Full Dura-ace/Ksyrium SL's. 

I warmed up with a 20 mile ride on my Trek5200 for a good comparison. Then test rode the cheaper Tarmac since it was the only one they had in my size. ( tried the 56 on the Tarmac. I(The 58 S works proved to feel too big for my 5'10"/31 inseam size. The cheaper Tarmac was spec'd with Ultegra and average wheels. Not bad, but not high end either. They were Mavic Equippes I believe. The frame compliance was plush, uet stiff and has a very nice ride quality. This is the second Specialized I rode however where I felt like I was falling into the handlebars. ( the first one was a Roubaix Comp I test rode a couple weeks ago. I don't know how else to describe it. I have not had this feeling of leaning/falling down into the handlebars any other bike brand. It seems almost consistent. Maybe I just dont fit Specialized bikes that well. Dunno.

I also test rode the larger S Works / DuraAce/Ksyrium SL bike. (58cm) Definitely too long with the 130 stem but I wanted to get a feel for the frame/ride quality/stiffness. The S-Works felt stiffer and I would say it had harsher ride than the less expensive Non-S-Works Tarmac. One thing that rings true no matter what: Dura-ace clearly has a level of buttery smooth shifting that I didnt' feel with the Ultegra 10 spd groupo. Ultegra was good, but Dura-ace is clearler smoother in my experience. The stiffness of the S-Works frame translates to excellent power on demand with excellent climbing characteristics. But it just didn't have the plushness and ride comfort that I felt on the Cannondale Synapse 1 Carbon. I keep coming back to the Cannondale Synapse 1 Carbon as the comfort/performance bike to beat. (although the Trek Madone 5.9SL also rode wonderfully) I will test ride the Synapse again on Tuesday along with a Cannondale CAAD8/Campy Record/Ksyrium/R6000 that my LBS has in stock in my size. The Caad8/Campy Record bike is almost $1200 less than the Synapse! For that kind of money, I can't afford not to check it out. But I still pretty much sold on an all Carbon frame since I don't race, and most do group and distance rides.

Lastly, all bikes I've ridden offer more latteral stiffness, better road damping and noticeable performance improvements over my '01 Trek5200. That said, I rode my 5200 home another 20 miles and it's still a great bike. But the new Dura-ace 10 Shifts smoother, the better wheels are lighter and climb better. There are also noticeable improvements in Carbon Fiber frame technology that add up to a clear conclusion to upgrade. 

I still want to ride a Six13, and maybe even hold out long enough to check out the '07 Cannondale SystemSix. What fun.


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

Test Ride Report: 

I got a chance to test ride a Cannondale CAAD8/R6000/Campy Record/Kysrium SL bike today. I was really surprised at how comffy the frame felt. In spite of the harsh ride stigma that follows Aluminum frames, Cannondale has done some very nice engineering to make the CAAD8 frame responsive, yet reasonably compliant.

I wanted to love Campy Record. It is so light, so sweet and cool looking, not to mention sexy. This was my third test ride on a Campy equipped bike. The first two were Chorus 10 spd. (Pinarello F-413 and Prince) I've been told Campy shifts should be as smooth, if not smoother than Dura-ace, But no matter which Campy equipped bike I rode, I kept experiencing mis-shifts. Hmmm (I don't want to start a flame war. Campy just didn't
work for me. Maybe I'm just too used to Shimano. No worries.) I am more clear that I simply prefer Dura-Ace.

I took the Caad8 for a decent test ride with some climbing, some quick turns. I was quite impressed. It made me want to ride a Six13 to compare, but unfortunately, my LBS didn't have any Six13's anywhere close. They report that in their experience, the Six13 is stiffer and more of a racing feel. Less comfort. And Comfort, with stifffness is my goal for long group rides, tours etc.

Then, I got back on the Synapse to compare to find out just how supple the CAAD8 really was. Well, ....In a few short pedal strokes, doing the same route/test ride, it was simply no contest in terms of comfort. The Synapse continues to stun and surprise me with its insurpassable comfort, while being stiff and responsive. I still want to test ride a Six13, or maybe even the new System Six. But I expect the full Carbon Synapse will still win me over.

Hope this was helpful. I'll report again if I find a shop that has a Six13.


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## estone2 (Sep 25, 2005)

trek5200cs said:


> new option: Went to my LBS today. I hurt my back this week so I was unable to test ride. This is the shop that has the Synapse. I wanted to check out a Six13 up close. But they didn't have any in my size. They did however have a New / Special edition CAAD8 R6000, Silver finish, full Campy RECORD, Mavic Ksyrium SL's ....for like $3200! TThat's like $1200 less than the other bikes I was looking at. But this is an all AL bike. No carbon. I want to test ride it anyway because it seems like a great deal.
> 
> Any thoughts on how a CAAD8 Frame compares with a Carbon like the Trek Madone or the Cannondale Synapse? Should I just stick to the carbon? (I am really am more into comfort over longer group rides. 40 miles up to centuries. Again, I am 190 lbs. Thanks!


CAAD8 is excellent. I test rode the Synapse and CAAD8 and liked the CAAD8 more. They were both extremely comfortable and nice, but i liked the price of the CAAD8. I'd go for the R6000.
-estone2


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

estone2 said:


> CAAD8 is excellent. I test rode the Synapse and CAAD8 and liked the CAAD8 more. They were both extremely comfortable and nice, but i liked the price of the CAAD8. I'd go for the R6000.
> -estone2


What was it about the CAAD8 that you liked better than the Synapse? Aside from price. Yeah, it's hard to disregard more than $1000 in cost difference. The CAAD8/R6000 is a great value. If you love Campy Record, (which most people do) it's a steal! But Campy and I just don't get along, and the primary reason for my upgrade is comfort. The C'Dale Synapse 1 (Dura-ace) is a better fit for me, rides better, smoother, but is stiffer, has more friendly geometry for my aging back, has much better wheels than my Rolf Vector comps, 10spd Dura-ace is clearly sweet. The list goes on. Guess I'm pretty sold on the Synapse.


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## BeeCharmer (Apr 30, 2003)

Campy takes time to break in; I found the shifters really hit their stride after about 5000 miles or so and shifting is noticeably smoother after 500 miles. The real test is how the hoods felt under your hands and how you like the thumb shifting.

chris


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## estone2 (Sep 25, 2005)

trek5200cs said:


> What was it about the CAAD8 that you liked better than the Synapse? Aside from price. Yeah, it's hard to disregard more than $1000 in cost difference. The CAAD8/R6000 is a great value. If you love Campy Record, (which most people do) it's a steal! But Campy and I just don't get along, and the primary reason for my upgrade is comfort. The C'Dale Synapse 1 (Dura-ace) is a better fit for me, rides better, smoother, but is stiffer, has more friendly geometry for my aging back, has much better wheels than my Rolf Vector comps, 10spd Dura-ace is clearly sweet. The list goes on. Guess I'm pretty sold on the Synapse.


I found that I liked the more racing style fit. If you find that you like DA more than Record, go for the synapse. I personally don't like Record that much, the Ergoshifters and me really don't get along, DA does great with me though. If I was to recommend a bike I would recommend the R5000 although if your main concern is wheels, the Ksyrium Elites might not be what you want (they are a step down from the SL's, and are a bit heavier, although I do not believe that they have the spokage problem of the SL's.
If you like the Synapse that much, definitely get it. I liked the R5000 I test rode because it had very similar ride to the Synapse actually, in my opinion, however it felt faster, more like a rocket. Fitting, considering that it's a racing bike. However, if you don't intend to race, just want a smooth ride,and want more of a touring ride, yeah, go for the Synapse. But I'd recommend you at least try out the CAAD8. It doesn't FEEL like aluminum, at least in my opinion. It gives you a bit more road feel than the Synapse, though. Note I mean road feel, not harsh ride. There's a difference, at least when I say it. You get almost the exact same feedback from the Synapse.
(BTW if you've already tried out the CAAD8, sorry, but I think I read that you just saw the R6000 and hadn't ridden it, and as such strongly advocate a test ride).
-estone2


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

estone2 said:


> I found that I liked the more racing style fit. If you find that you like DA more than Record, go for the synapse. I personally don't like Record that much, the Ergoshifters and me really don't get along, DA does great with me though. If I was to recommend a bike I would recommend the R5000 although if your main concern is wheels, the Ksyrium Elites might not be what you want (they are a step down from the SL's, and are a bit heavier, although I do not believe that they have the spokage problem of the SL's.
> If you like the Synapse that much, definitely get it. I liked the R5000 I test rode because it had very similar ride to the Synapse actually, in my opinion, however it felt faster, more like a rocket. Fitting, considering that it's a racing bike. However, if you don't intend to race, just want a smooth ride,and want more of a touring ride, yeah, go for the Synapse. But I'd recommend you at least try out the CAAD8. It doesn't FEEL like aluminum, at least in my opinion. It gives you a bit more road feel than the Synapse, though. Note I mean road feel, not harsh ride. There's a difference, at least when I say it. You get almost the exact same feedback from the Synapse.
> (BTW if you've already tried out the CAAD8, sorry, but I think I read that you just saw the R6000 and hadn't ridden it, and as such strongly advocate a test ride).
> -estone2


I did ride the CAAD8 and I was really impressed. But then I rode the Synapse and it clearly felt more plush, smooth, yet stiff and fast enough for me. What I am choking on now is the cost. I am impressed with the price point of a Dura-ace spec'd R5000 with Nice wheels. It's a lot less than the Dura-Ace Synapse. Ultimately based on my test rides however, I think the Synapse ride quality and geometry will invite me to ride more, and longer distances. If I focus on the money savings and get the CAAD8 bike, I think I'll always wonder if I would have been more comfortable on the full carbon Synapse. And god knows, maybe even the upcoming System Six will add a bit of plushness to the ride of the CAAD8 geometry? Sigh. Decisions, decisions. I'm giving myself the next few weeks to make a decision while I pull the funds together. At this point, I don't want to just 'settle' for something else to get a new bike when I really want the plush comfy ride of the Synapse.

So that said, should I consider a Synapse 2 Carbon? It has the Mavic Elite wheels. Not sure if those are very well thought of. And Does Ultegra 10 shift just as smooth as Dura-ace? So far, on my test rides, I honestly feel Dura-Ace shifts better. I've had my old trek5200 OCLV 120 for 5 years ('01). I'm going to have the next bike for at least that long I would expect. So I want to get what I 'want' and feel the most love toward. You know?


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## estone2 (Sep 25, 2005)

trek5200cs said:


> I did ride the CAAD8 and I was really impressed. But then I rode the Synapse and it clearly felt more plush, smooth, yet stiff and fast enough for me. What I am choking on now is the cost. I am impressed with the price point of a Dura-ace spec'd R5000 with Nice wheels. It's a lot less than the Dura-Ace Synapse. Ultimately based on my test rides however, I think the Synapse ride quality and geometry will invite me to ride more, and longer distances. If I focus on the money savings and get the CAAD8 bike, I think I'll always wonder if I would have been more comfortable on the full carbon Synapse. And god knows, maybe even the upcoming System Six will add a bit of plushness to the ride of the CAAD8 geometry? Sigh. Decisions, decisions. I'm giving myself the next few weeks to make a decision while I pull the funds together. At this point, I don't want to just 'settle' for something else to get a new bike when I really want the plush comfy ride of the Synapse.
> 
> So that said, should I consider a Synapse 2 Carbon? It has the Mavic Elite wheels. Not sure if those are very well thought of. And Does Ultegra 10 shift just as smooth as Dura-ace? So far, on my test rides, I honestly feel Dura-Ace shifts better. I've had my old trek5200 OCLV 120 for 5 years ('01). I'm going to have the next bike for at least that long I would expect. So I want to get what I 'want' and feel the most love toward. You know?


Yeah, you sound like the Synapse alot. If it speaks to you, then it's the one for you. Don't force yourself into the CAAD8 unless you like it more. If the Synapse feels better, go for it. The Synapse 2 Carbon would be a very good bike to consider. DuraAce does shift better. Many people claim it feels the same, but you and I are one of a kind; we both feel that. I honestly hate the way Ultegra feels, compared to DA. Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels are very nice. It's a $550 or so wheelset, so it's not something to worry about; they're suitable for racing, let alone rec riding. They probably wont be as stiff as Ksyrium SL's. Which could be a good thing if you're not racing, as it can make for a less bruising ride, more of the riding on air quality (more lateral flex, not as efficient but more comfortable. it's a minimal difference, like that between the CAAD8 and the Synapse.).

Basically, If you get the Synapse 2 it will be less stiff, but that could be possibly better, as it's a very very tiny difference, one that you'll barely be able to notice, IF you notice it. If you like the feel of the DA, the one that you'll feel the most is the RD, so you could keep an all Ultegra drivetrain, with an upgraded RD to DA. That would feel similar probably, as unless you live in mountains you're not going to be shifting on the FD too much, and in mountains I think people tend to only shift once or twice (at least I do) on the FD; into the second on the way up, and into the third on the way back down. As such, one slightly slower shift on the front could be tolerable, unnoticeable, if it saves you a large amount, as well, it's one or two shifts per half hour, unless they're some weird mountains. 

Don't worry about the weight increase of Ultegra over DA. Weight weenies are dumb, note that many pros (Thor Hushovd) ride bikes that weigh 17.8 pounds! One kilogram saves you roughly 1.25% effort, uphill. That's 1000 grams. A 15g addition on the FD is basically unnoticeable. In fact in double blind tests, people often didnt notice when 1kg was added to their bikes! The lower weight is something of a placebo effect.
-estone2


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

estone2 said:


> Yeah, you sound like the Synapse alot. If it speaks to you, then it's the one for you. Don't force yourself into the CAAD8 unless you like it more. If the Synapse feels better, go for it. The Synapse 2 Carbon would be a very good bike to consider. DuraAce does shift better. Many people claim it feels the same, but you and I are one of a kind; we both feel that. I honestly hate the way Ultegra feels, compared to DA. Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels are very nice. It's a $550 or so wheelset, so it's not something to worry about; they're suitable for racing, let alone rec riding. They probably wont be as stiff as Ksyrium SL's. Which could be a good thing if you're not racing, as it can make for a less bruising ride, more of the riding on air quality (more lateral flex, not as efficient but more comfortable. it's a minimal difference, like that between the CAAD8 and the Synapse.).
> 
> Basically, If you get the Synapse 2 it will be less stiff, but that could be possibly better, as it's a very very tiny difference, one that you'll barely be able to notice, IF you notice it. If you like the feel of the DA, the one that you'll feel the most is the RD, so you could keep an all Ultegra drivetrain, with an upgraded RD to DA. That would feel similar probably, as unless you live in mountains you're not going to be shifting on the FD too much, and in mountains I think people tend to only shift once or twice (at least I do) on the FD; into the second on the way up, and into the third on the way back down. As such, one slightly slower shift on the front could be tolerable, unnoticeable, if it saves you a large amount, as well, it's one or two shifts per half hour, unless they're some weird mountains.
> 
> ...


Great Feedback. Thanks for your feedback, experience and opinions. The Synapse 2 already comes with a Dura-Ace Rear Derraileur. Go figure. That said, I've ridden both (Synapse 1 and 2) and the full Dura-Ace bike shifts smoother. It just does and I'm sure it's not my imagination. But maybe the Synapse 2 just needs an adjustment? The ride quality of the Synapse 2 felt identical to the Synapse 1. (It should, same frame) The main differences are the Ksyrium Elites versus Ksyrium SL's, and the FSA K wing carbon bar on the Synapse 1. There are some smaller differences otherwise that don't matter as much to me. The stem, seatpost etc. If I get the Synapse 2, I can add the FSA K-Wing bar and upgrade anytime. Who knows, maybe I'll fall equally in love with the Synapse 2 and enjoy the money saved for more hammer gel and more rides! LOL I might stil try and save up the extra for the full Dura-ace/Ksryium SL bike. It is clearly my front runner. Just fits me well and feels good.


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## estone2 (Sep 25, 2005)

trek5200cs said:


> Great Feedback. Thanks for your feedback, experience and opinions. The Synapse 2 already comes with a Dura-Ace Rear Derraileur. Go figure. That said, I've ridden both (Synapse 1 and 2) and the full Dura-Ace bike shifts smoother. It just does and I'm sure it's not my imagination. But maybe the Synapse 2 just needs an adjustment? The ride quality of the Synapse 2 felt identical to the Synapse 1. (It should, same frame) The main differences are the Ksyrium Elites versus Ksyrium SL's, and the FSA K wing carbon bar on the Synapse 1. There are some smaller differences otherwise that don't matter as much to me. The stem, seatpost etc. If I get the Synapse 2, I can add the FSA K-Wing bar and upgrade anytime. Who knows, maybe I'll fall equally in love with the Synapse 2 and enjoy the money saved for more hammer gel and more rides! LOL I might stil try and save up the extra for the full Dura-ace/Ksryium SL bike. It is clearly my front runner. Just fits me well and feels good.


If it feels good, make the jump. However if saving money's important to you, you could go for the Synapse 2. What is it that you love about the K-Wing?
The vibration damping? The wing itself?
I guess its just personal bias but I myself dislike the K-Wing, when I've tried it out. Well, not so much dislike it as find it irksome; it's a very very heavy bar and some people can find flex in it. Maybe I'm picky, but I can find flex in it. Yeah, weight doesn't mean much, but... yeesh the thing's like 1/4 pound more than it need be, if I remember right. If you like the vibration damping, you could get the Synapse 2 and stick a nice CF normal round bar on it, which would save you a lot of grams, and be stiffer. However, if you like the wing feature, you can get alloy wings, which actually might be lighter than the K-Wing, since the K-Wing is really that heavy.
If it's a combination of the two, then yeah, get the K-Wing. However I just find it to be an overly expensive, overly heavy, overly flexy handlebar. If I pay $260 bucks or so for a handlebar, I'd expect it to be light and stiff as all get out.
Just promise you won't get a CF stem. A handlebar or stem CAN snap. It's rare, unless you run into a tree or abuse your CF in one way or another. if your handlebar snaps, you probably will have one half or more of it remaining, and provided that it doesnt go into your spokes, you can get to the side of the road and get to a slow speed before you fall/dismount. A CF stem is suicide, in the chance that it snaps, you'll do what hincapie did; straight into the ground, period. Chances of it happening are low, but the chance is high enough that i'd be afraid of it happening. I personally am very happy with aluminum for this reason; CF doesn't show weakness. It snaps. Al distorts, so that you know when its broken, before it snaps on ya.

You sound really sold on the Synapse 1. If you've got the money, and are sure, go for it.
Another thing to try. If the bike shop knows you're completely serious about buying, they may be willing to accomodate requests. Maybe take the Synapse 1 out for a 20 mile ride. Then take the Synapse 2 out for a 20 mile ride. If possible, go for a longer distance. A ride like that will tell you much more about shifting in real life conditions, and whether or not you can live with Ultegra.
-estone2


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## R.Rice (Aug 23, 2004)

estone2 said:


> A CF stem is suicide, in the chance that it snaps, you'll do what hincapie did; straight into the ground, period. Chances of it happening are low, but the chance is high enough that i'd be afraid of it happening. I personally am very happy with aluminum for this reason; CF doesn't show weakness. It snaps. Al distorts, so that you know when its broken, before it snaps on ya.


That's funny.Alluminum distorts and gives you a warning?You do realize that Hincapies steerer tube(since you were using him as an example)was alluminum....

Anyhow,back to the OP;

It isn't your imagination comparing the Ultegra to the DA drivetrain.I have both and can assure you the DA is worth the money.It shifts smoothers and more precisely.Not to mention the shifter feel like they are made a lot tighter.Also,don't know what calipers it has but the 7800 calipers are LOADS better than the Ultegra ones.

As for the wheels,I have Ksyrium Elites and SSC SL's.I have about 13-14 thousand miles on my elites and have had ZERO issues with them.I train on them all winter with heaver,cheap 25mm tires and race on them in the spring and summer(better tires obviously)since they are cheap to replace.

They are great wheels and the hubs are plenty smooth.Not to mention they are bullet proof.

The only advantage I can see the SL's having over them is the weight.Honestly,they both feel about as stiff.I really doubt the slighty more "aero" spokes make any real difference.

I say spend the extra cash and get the DA bike with the SL's since it will be a one time cost and you will be done with it.You can always buy a cheapo set of wheels later to train on if you don't want to beat up on the SL's(not that they can't take it)You will also save yourself roughly 1.5 pounds between the group and wheels.Assuming you want to be a "dumb" weight weenie.


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## estone2 (Sep 25, 2005)

R.Rice said:


> That's funny.Alluminum distorts and gives you a warning?You do realize that Hincapies steerer tube(since you were using him as an example)was alluminum....


Oops! Good call! Stupid mistake on my part  
Well, distorts in the sense that it dents and so forth; if an aluminum frame is damaged it does not look pristine. Same can't necessarily be said for CF, take, for example lances frame in the 03 TDF when he crashed.
-estone2


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## bsp_56 (Nov 1, 2005)

Hey Trek 5200cs, I've really enjoyed reading all the thoughts and discussions on this thread. You seem to be justifiably doing a considerable amount of research and test rides while gearing up for the big purchase. There is no doubt in my mind that whichever steed you choose, it will give back miles of smiles.

You may be interested to know that I bought a 2006 Synapse Carbon 1 this winter and have so far logged 1683 miles on rough Northern Maine roads. I have no regrets whatsoever. This frame seems to be the holy grail...it is light, vertically compliant, laterally rigid and fast, has a seriously stiff bottom bracket and just plain old rocks. Gone for me are the days of feeling like all my nerve endings were pulverized after a 5 hour ride. I'm riding farther and faster than ever before.

Needless to say, the Dura-Ace has been amazing. After ONE shifting allignment tweak, this system has performed flawlessly. The calipers are incredible and inspire confidence on long descents.

I'm getting back into racing after a 10 year hyatus and feel that this bike is race worthy, regardless of it's sport performance label and the opinions of a small and vocal percentage that seem to be discounting this frame's attributes. The head tube on a 56cm Synapse is 5mm higher than a CAAD 8 or Six13. I flipped the FSA OS115 stem over and found that to be a plenty agressive riding position. It's steering is plenty agressive and in sprints I've gained 1/4 bike length per stroke against similarly fit cyclists that are still on their old steeds. Remember that FSA's carbon bars (round or wing) aren't rated in strength for clip on aero bars. I'm planning on a TT bike anyway, so the wing's incredible ergonomics and comfort were well worth it. The bar is 5 - 30 grams heavier than most competitor bars. This translates to 0.011 - 0.066 lb, not 0.25 lb for crying out loud. That would be 113 grams! Also, the 20+ mph side wind interference on the Ksyrium SL3 over a 28 spoke (round) trad. wheel has to be felt to be believed. I thought that some cyclists were being a bit dramatic in their reports. I was wrong. Just be ready...it's worth it for the (so far) bomber strength and fairly aero design.

Enough for now. I hope these ramblings are of some help.

Good luck on your purchase. I was in your shoes not too many months ago and know the excitement and anticipation you must be feeling.


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

Hi BSP,

What a hugely helpful post thanks! Whatever bike I decide on and buy, I want to love it and feel I made the best decision possible I expect I will keep it and ride it for a long time. I've kept my Trek52000 ('01) for 5 years and it has been a great bike. Well worth the money I spent in '01. 

It is so cool to hear from another cyclist who bought the same model and the same model and component level that I am considering (Synapse 1 Carbon/Dura-Ace) 

I feel I've been doing my due dilligence and it has helped to form some conclusions., eliminate some bikes and zero in on the next bike that will be so perfect for me, I'll ride it a lot! I have eliminated the Specialized Tarmac and Roubaix. Loved the ride quality of the frames, but they just didn't fit me that well. I also eliminated Orbea Opal, Pinarello, and CAAD8. but the CAAD8 was tempting. ...Until I rode the Synapse right after the CAAD8 test ride. The ride quality on the Synapse was head and shoulders more comfy. In 'my' experience, it was no contest. With nothing else to compare to, I might have pulled the trigger on a CAAD8 R5000. It was that impressive I thought. Cannondale engineers some great frames pure and simple. 

I never set out to zero in on a Cannondale, but honestly, I am really impressed with their mix of performance, spec's and quality. Sine I'm not in a huge hurry, I really want to wait and ride a System Six in July. If possible I'd love to check out a Six13, but it looks like the buzz is that System Six is all that, and a bit more! The

What other bikes were on your short list? Did any compare favorably that you were strongly considering? Interesting to hear your conclusion that the Ksyrium SL's really do struggle in cross winds. But you're talking about serious crosswinds. At 20mph, any ride is a challenge. 

So for now, I think I'm going to wait and see if I can find a Six13 to ride, or just wait for the System Six. I wouldn't be surprised if I still choose th Synapse 1 Carbon. I know I like it that much.

What color did you choose? Do you get a lot of compliments, looks and comments from people you ride with? What does it weigh? Thanks again! Gary





bsp_56 said:


> Hey Trek 5200cs, I've really enjoyed reading all the thoughts and discussions on this thread. You seem to be justifiably doing a considerable amount of research and test rides while gearing up for the big purchase. There is no doubt in my mind that whichever steed you choose, it will give back miles of smiles.
> 
> You may be interested to know that I bought a 2006 Synapse Carbon 1 this winter and have so far logged 1683 miles on rough Northern Maine roads. I have no regrets whatsoever. This frame seems to be the holy grail...it is light, vertically compliant, laterally rigid and fast, has a seriously stiff bottom bracket and just plain old rocks. Gone for me are the days of feeling like all my nerve endings were pulverized after a 5 hour ride. I'm riding farther and faster than ever before.
> 
> ...


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## Coastrider (Feb 14, 2005)

Go with your instincts, the Madone is exactly what you said, quick responsive and will take you up any hill you want. I'm 54, and our rides range from 45-100 miles an outing and the Madone has performed in every way. After the ride your tired but not beaten up!


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## rideorglide (Dec 3, 2005)

I've never ridden the Madone, so I can't speak for that. I'm no expert roadie either, so take this with a pinch of salt. But, that said, I test rode the Synapse, and it was an unforgettable ride. Loved it*. The initial impression was as if I was riding on air.

It's way out of my budget, but it was nevertheless interesting to sample a little of what's out there, and have a point of reference on a bike that I felt very near right on.







* Aside from the K-Wing handlebars, which I could take or leave.


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

rideorglide said:


> I've never ridden the Madone, so I can't speak for that. I'm no expert roadie either, so take this with a pinch of salt. But, that said, I test rode the Synapse, and it was an unforgettable ride. Loved it*. The initial impression was as if I was riding on air.
> 
> It's way out of my budget, but it was nevertheless interesting to sample a little of what's out there, and have a point of reference on a bike that I felt very near right on.
> 
> * Aside from the K-Wing handlebars, which I could take or leave.


I agree the Synapse inspires an immediate response. very smooth, responsive and comfortable. Its been a month since I compared the Synapse to the Madone SL, but as I recall while the Madone felt a little quicker, I think the Synapse will be more comfortable. Maybe it just fits me better. In any event, Synapse or Madone would most likely both make me happy. But I am leaning to the Cannondale. Still plan to ride a Six13 and will most likely wait and ride the new System Six and make my decision in July. I want to get a lot of rides in on my new bike. But I am happy to be doing my due diligence to truly believe I've chosen the best bike for my riding style, comfort and certainly the best fit as many have pointed outl. 

This has been an incredibly helpful and supportive thread. Thanks to everyone for participating. Keep the comments coming! Gary


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## Woolly Bugger (May 24, 2006)

Whow! I have been watching this thread for some time. I am currently a MTB commuter doing the occasional road trek on weekends. I want to step up the road riding and am looking also to move onto a real road bike. I just don't think the MTB is suitable for reasonably long distances.

Current bike is a '04 Cannondale F600 MTB. Great bike for the 35Km round trip commute I do a couple of time per week. I am looking to do more road cycling on weekends 70 - 120Kms and first choice is another Cannondale. Don't know why, just think they are well made and have a good reputation. 

In Oz, I we don't seem to have the luxury that you have in the states of being able to test ride so many bikes. There just aren't the number of Cannondale bike shops and those that are around do not have the stock. So I am looking for advice as well.

I am 50, 180Cm (~5'11), about 93 kgs (205lbs) and reasonably fit. I currently ride by myself, however am looking for a group to ride with. 

The F600 has all XT shifters and derailleurs, so I am used to reasonable (but not professional) equipment. My preference would be for DA, although we pay a real premium down here for this level. My main criteria for a road bike are comfort and dependability on the hardware. I don't want to move from the small crank to large and find it takes several seconds to engage like my current bike set up does. I know it is probably just a simple adjustment, but I expect the DA will give crisp movement with a minimum of fuss.

I know little about CF bikes other than they are generally expensive! My assumption from reading this forum is that they offer a more ‘comfortable’ ride over aluminum. What about composite bikes such as the Six13 or new System 6. Is this a good compromise? 

Are these bikes a bit over the top for a weekend rider doing no more than about 100 - 120Km per week? Not necessarily into speed or rapid response. Any suggestions?

Can someone tell me what the difference in ride quality I should expect between a MTB and road bike of this caliber? 

I will keep a close eye on your deliberations and final decision. Not trying to hijack this thread, but seems I am heading down a similar path to yourself. Any help appreciated.:smile5:


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## Coastrider (Feb 14, 2005)

That's half the fun about buying a new bike. Ride them, research and test ride again until you find the right one for your needs. We can make suggestions, but you're the one who will be riding. Your looking at well made bikes, determine what is most important,more comfort or greater speed.


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## paint (Jul 25, 2005)

Woolly Bugger said:


> I know little about CF bikes other than they are generally expensive! My assumption from reading this forum is that they offer a more ‘comfortable’ ride over aluminum. What about composite bikes such as the Six13 or new System 6. Is this a good compromise?


The comfort level of the carbon and the aluminum alike will depend on the quality of the frame. Either material can be made to be comfortable or uncomfortable. In Cannondale's case, some people find the carbon Synapse more comfortable than the aluminum CAAD8. The CAAD8 is a race frame. The Synapse is a longer distance, more comfortable frame. The comfort difference likely has less to do with the fact that the Synapse is made of carbon and more to do with the fact that the geometry is specifically designed for longer distances. Personally, I bought a CAAD8 because I prefer the racier geometry. It's nothing for me to hop on it and go for a 60-70mi ride. Even though it's a race frame, it's very comfortable, very efficient.

The System Six has aluminum rear seat stays and carbon top and down tubes from what I understand. It will also be offered with shimano, sram, or campy parts. The guys on the Cannondale forum would be able to tell you more about both rides in detail. The six 13 geometry is not much different from the CAAD8. When I test rode both frames, I could feel very little practical difference in any place but the price tag. 



> Can someone tell me what the difference in ride quality I should expect between a MTB and road bike of this caliber?


I do not think these bikes are over the top for someone doing 120km/wk. You still want to enjoy your time on the bike. You already ride your bike on a regular basis. You may find with a nicer bike that your ride time increases. I was riding about 125 mi/wk when all I had was my hardtail mountain bike (k2 zed). Since buying my CAAD8 a couple months ago, my weekly riding has increased to about 250 mi/wk. I enjoy riding a lot more because I have equipment that is made to be used exactly how I am using it. The ride is smoother, the positions more varied and comfortable, and the power transfer seems more efficient and responsive. The difference between riding a mountain bike on pavement and riding a road bike on pavement is significant and incredible. In fact, I was mildly shocked at the difference. It is worth the money if you have it to spend.


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## sako (Dec 28, 2005)

Trek5200cs, 
I went down the same route as you six months ago. I'm 53 and weigh 190lbs. I ended up with the Synapse DA compact. Love the K Wing bars too. Haven't noticed them flex either; just find them so comfortable especially when climbing in the saddle. I do longer rides and find the bike very comfortable as the roads around here have fairly large chip seal. It decends with stability unlike some bikes I've tried which are far too twitchy for my liking. Who wants to come off at 40 mph downhill and possibly wipe their face out because they lost control of their bike? The Synapse climbs hills extremely well, probably because of it's stiff BB and light weight and I find the compact chainset invaluable on the really steep climbs. Can also attest to the durability of Mavic Ksyrium wheels as I've hit more than a few potholes and countless stones and the wheels are still true; the spokes are very strong. Ultimately, when it comes to speed of different bikes, the Synapse is way faster a bike than I could ever take advantage of; therefore any advantage by having a slightly faster bike is wasted on me. Of all the bikes I tested the Synapse just felt right and I have absolutely no regrets and I don't think you would either.


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## fredf (Aug 13, 2004)

Not to stir up trouble, but have you given any thought to a Litespeed Tuscany?
I currently have a Trek 5200 which I really like but the geometry is a little steep for my 50+body. By LBS (whom I really trust) are strongly suggesting a Tuscany. They say the geometry is perfect for me....I'm ok with that, but I've reallly enjoyed the vibration dampening of the carbon fibre. They assure me the Titanium of the Tuscany will be just as good.

Any thoughts on that?
thanks


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

Thanks For the review Sako. 

Have you noticed any issues in crosswinds with the Ksyrium wheel being challenging as others have reported? Also, I've heard some Ksyriums that I thought ratched really loudly, but I've heard others that weren't so bad. I do love the quiet freewheel spinning of my old Rolf's and even the new Bontrager Race X-lites are rather quiet. Does the ratcheting sound bother you at all?



sako said:


> Trek5200cs,
> I went down the same route as you six months ago. I'm 53 and weigh 190lbs. I ended up with the Synapse DA compact. Love the K Wing bars too. Haven't noticed them flex either; just find them so comfortable especially when climbing in the saddle. I do longer rides and find the bike very comfortable as the roads around here have fairly large chip seal. It decends with stability unlike some bikes I've tried which are far too twitchy for my liking. Who wants to come off at 40 mph downhill and possibly wipe their face out because they lost control of their bike? The Synapse climbs hills extremely well, probably because of it's stiff BB and light weight and I find the compact chainset invaluable on the really steep climbs. Can also attest to the durability of Mavic Ksyrium wheels as I've hit more than a few potholes and countless stones and the wheels are still true; the spokes are very strong. Ultimately, when it comes to speed of different bikes, the Synapse is way faster a bike than I could ever take advantage of; therefore any advantage by having a slightly faster bike is wasted on me. Of all the bikes I tested the Synapse just felt right and I have absolutely no regrets and I don't think you would either.


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## sako (Dec 28, 2005)

trek5200cs said:


> Thanks For the review Sako.
> 
> Have you noticed any issues in crosswinds with the Ksyrium wheel being challenging as others have reported? Also, I've heard some Ksyriums that I thought ratched really loudly, but I've heard others that weren't so bad. I do love the quiet freewheel spinning of my old Rolf's and even the new Bontrager Race X-lites are rather quiet. Does the ratcheting sound bother you at all?


Haven't noticed any issues with crosswinds. I simply don't go fast enough for it to be a concern (except downhill and then if it's really blowing I'll slow down anyway). Can't even hear the ratchet on my bike -then again I've lost 50% of my hearing in the upper frequency range due to deer hunting. My wheelset is actually the Ksyrium ES as the bike shop had sold the SL's to a customer who wanted them there and then. I don't think there'd be any difference in sound between the two wheelsets though. Haven't tried the Bontrager Race X-lites. I know there were some issues with durability a few years back but apparently they have fixed that. I can assure you the Ksyrium SL wheels are very, very good; they are popular for good reason. My LBS has never had to replace a spoke on any Elite, SL or ES they have sold. However, you're always going to get some failures as regards any popular wheelset due to the amount in use out there. 

Blowing a gale today and wet as well; shame as I wanted to do a 50 miler.


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## stevecaz (Feb 25, 2005)

*Do Not Get The Synapse*

Please do not get the Synapse, simply for the reason it is made in China. I don't have a problem with foreign goods, but I do have a problem with Cannondale, who has made 100% of every bike they've ever produced in the USA, suddenly thinking they need to fill a marketing void and outsource to China. We need to make the statement to them that we don't want their Chinese stuff and we want to to continue to be the ultimate "Made in the USA" bike maker. 

Its a very slippery slope and how it always happens. A company starts making a few things overseas, then a few more, and if people keep buying and don't complain, they keep moving production until finally everything it made somewhere else and many good Americans are out of work. 

Any by the way, if you don't end up getting the Synapse then email them and tell them that the foreign manufacturing was a part of the decision not to buy. They need to know this.


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

sako said:


> Haven't noticed any issues with crosswinds. I simply don't go fast enough for it to be a concern (except downhill and then if it's really blowing I'll slow down anyway). Can't even hear the ratchet on my bike -then again I've lost 50% of my hearing in the upper frequency range due to deer hunting. My wheelset is actually the Ksyrium ES as the bike shop had sold the SL's to a customer who wanted them there and then. I don't think there'd be any difference in sound between the two wheelsets though. Haven't tried the Bontrager Race X-lites. I know there were some issues with durability a few years back but apparently they have fixed that. I can assure you the Ksyrium SL wheels are very, very good; they are popular for good reason. My LBS has never had to replace a spoke on any Elite, SL or ES they have sold. However, you're always going to get some failures as regards any popular wheelset due to the amount in use out there.
> 
> Blowing a gale today and wet as well; shame as I wanted to do a 50 miler.


Thanks again for the post. Those Ksyrium ES Wheels Are Drop Dead Gorgeous! Wow. What color Synapse did you get? How do the ES Wheels look with your color scheme? I'll bet you get a lot of compliments on your bike.


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

Your point is noted that this Cannondale frame is not made in the US. I wish it was. Regardless of that fact, it sure does ride nice and fits me well. It remains very high on my list regardless of politics involving offshore outsourcing.That is a shame. But it is a sad and common reality in the global business climate these days. 

That said, I am holding out to ride a System Six in July and see how that feels. I decided I can wait to find out if the System Six might be a contender since the new .07 model looks really incredible. I believe it might be US made. So hold on to your horses.

I just want to find the bike that is the perfect fit, performance and comfort for me. That will be the bike I buy. In the meantime, I am logging plenty of miles on my trusty Trek5200.




stevecaz said:


> Please do not get the Synapse, simply for the reason it is made in China. I don't have a problem with foreign goods, but I do have a problem with Cannondale, who has made 100% of every bike they've ever produced in the USA, suddenly thinking they need to fill a marketing void and outsource to China. We need to make the statement to them that we don't want their Chinese stuff and we want to to continue to be the ultimate "Made in the USA" bike maker.
> 
> Its a very slippery slope and how it always happens. A company starts making a few things overseas, then a few more, and if people keep buying and don't complain, they keep moving production until finally everything it made somewhere else and many good Americans are out of work.
> 
> Any by the way, if you don't end up getting the Synapse then email them and tell them that the foreign manufacturing was a part of the decision not to buy. They need to know this.


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## sako (Dec 28, 2005)

stevecaz said:


> Please do not get the Synapse, simply for the reason it is made in China.


Not sure whether the frame is made in China or Taiwan. However the reason Cannondale has done this is no doubt one of economics. If it wasn't produced there it probably wouldn't have been a viable proposition. Many high end bike frames are made in Asia now and the quality is superb. They have the technology and experience with CF. There's more to a bike than just it's frame of course and nobody seems to mind Italian Campagnolo or Japanese Shimano or French Mavic or Look pedals etc.etc. We are subject to a global economy as 'trek5200cs' points out and that's the simple fact of the matter. Also consider, if you will, that by not buying a Cannondale because the frame is made in Asia you are ultimately hurting the employees of that company. They have the designers, painters, assemblers, packing, marketing, management etc. who all benefit from selling their product. If you boycott their bikes for whatever reason then they lose sales and that's not good for any company.


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

sako said:


> Not sure whether the frame is made in China or Taiwan. However the reason Cannondale has done this is no doubt one of economics. If it wasn't produced there it probably wouldn't have been a viable proposition. Many high end bike frames are made in Asia now and the quality is superb. They have the technology and experience with CF. There's more to a bike than just it's frame of course and nobody seems to mind Italian Campagnolo or Japanese Shimano or French Mavic or Look pedals etc.etc. We are subject to a global economy as 'trek5200cs' points out and that's the simple fact of the matter. Also consider, if you will, that by not buying a Cannondale because the frame is made in Asia you are ultimately hurting the employees of that company. They have the designers, painters, assemblers, packing, marketing, management etc. who all benefit from selling their product. If you boycott their bikes for whatever reason then they lose sales and that's not good for any company.



Well said Sako. So which color scheme did you choose? I'm guessing with the Mavic ES, you might have the black/charcoal or White/Silver? If blue/white, how do the ES wheels look on that Synapse 1?


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## r1levy (Jun 12, 2006)

*System Six*

What is a System Six?


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## r1levy (Jun 12, 2006)

I have watchede this thread with interest. I, too have narrowed my search to the Synapse or the Madone, with the Scott also in the running. I saw you mentioned a System Six which I have not heard of. can you tell me a bit about this bike.


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## sako (Dec 28, 2005)

trek5200cs said:


> So which color scheme did you choose? I'm guessing with the Mavic ES, you might have the black/charcoal or White/Silver? If blue/white, how do the ES wheels look on that Synapse 1?


I have the white/silver and the ES wheelset looks fine with that although I'm sure it would look better with the black/charcoal. I've just arrived home after a short 15 mile ride because it started raining. The D/A brake pads are hopeless in the wet - must get some Koolstops. The bike is a real pleasure to ride.


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## shoerhino (Aug 13, 2004)

This thread pretty much explains the System Six. (Thanks to Grasschopper)

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=61773


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

shoerhino said:


> This thread pretty much explains the System Six. (Thanks to Grasschopper)
> 
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=61773



And from Cannondales Website: http://www.cannondale.com/systemsix/


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

r1levy said:


> I have watchede this thread with interest. I, too have narrowed my search to the Synapse or the Madone, with the Scott also in the running. I saw you mentioned a System Six which I have not heard of. can you tell me a bit about this bike.


I briefly rode the Scott CR1 and have to admit, it is a very nice bike. I thought it was a little stiffer than the Trek Madone 5.9SL. I'm not a huge fan of the Scott Block Logo decals, which I have read are notorious for coming loose. That's not quite a deal breaker, but you know, the cool factor is part of the equation. All bikes mentioned are very cool in my book. But my 'butt" has the final say in the matter. The frame on the Scott CR-1 was very sweet. I still think the Synapse was even more user friendly, comfortable and absorbant/smooth.


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## fredf (Aug 13, 2004)

Trek 5200(and/or others): do you have any comments on the Litespeed Tuscany regarding comfort?


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## Bob Ross (Apr 18, 2006)

I finally got to test ride a Synapse Carbon 2 this past Sunday, part of whittling down my not-very-short Short List for a purchase that I'll hopefully make later this month. It's definitely the top contender right now: It rides like a hovercraft, as if it's floating over the pavement on a cushion of air; and like the hovercraft analogy (or, if you prefer, an air hockey puck) it seems to move forward effortlessly, with nary the slightest provocation. 

But I have one concern, which I'm hoping to further qualify (or erase) with subsequent test rides planned for this week. There's an odd sensation I got whenever I tried quick side-to-side moves, eg, fast tight slalom turns like one might do if avoiding a series of potholes or swerving to avoid accidents: I can't tell whether the bike was delaying its response or delaying its recovery (its response back in the opposite direction after a turn), but something seemed sluggish or out-of-sync in these fast twitchy moves, as if there was some inertia which seemed totally disproportionate to the weight of the bike. Anyone else notice this, or experience something similar to what I'm talking about?


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

Bob Ross said:


> I finally got to test ride a Synapse Carbon 2 this past Sunday, part of whittling down my not-very-short Short List for a purchase that I'll hopefully make later this month. It's definitely the top contender right now: It rides like a hovercraft, as if it's floating over the pavement on a cushion of air; and like the hovercraft analogy (or, if you prefer, an air hockey puck) it seems to move forward effortlessly, with nary the slightest provocation.
> 
> But I have one concern, which I'm hoping to further qualify (or erase) with subsequent test rides planned for this week. There's an odd sensation I got whenever I tried quick side-to-side moves, eg, fast tight slalom turns like one might do if avoiding a series of potholes or swerving to avoid accidents: I can't tell whether the bike was delaying its response or delaying its recovery (its response back in the opposite direction after a turn), but something seemed sluggish or out-of-sync in these fast twitchy moves, as if there was some inertia which seemed totally disproportionate to the weight of the bike. Anyone else notice this, or experience something similar to what I'm talking about?


Hi Bob,

Yes, the slower steering is inherently a '_little' _ slower. I wouldn't say it's profound, but it's not quick like a frame with full race geometry. That is a consequence of the geometry of the Synapse that makes the bike oh so comfortable. My best guess is bikes like Specialized Roubaix display similar traits. (anyone?) The more relaxed/upright geometry of the Synapse makes the bike more comfortable and is supposed to make it feel more stable and less twitchy when you are descending a slope doing 40+ mph. 

FredF; I've never ridden a Lightspeed, but they are held in very high regard. My only experience with a Ti bike was that is was not as stiff or quick feeling as my Carbon Fiber frame. I am 190 lbs, so I tend to get a little flex from Ti and Steel bikes.


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## Woolly Bugger (May 24, 2006)

trek5200cs said:


> Hi Bob,
> 
> Yes, the slower steering is inherently a '_little' _ slower. I wouldn't say it's profound, but it's not quick like a frame with full race geometry. That is a consequence of the geometry of the Synapse that makes the bike oh so comfortable.


I see many references to 'full race geometry', however I am a little unsure what you mean by this - excuse my ignorance. I have compared the geometry of a 56 Synapse and CAAD8 and can see very little difference (.5cm on some specs at most). What do you mean by 'full race geometry'?


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## dead flag blues (Aug 26, 2004)

Madone.


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## Marinoni Bob (Apr 19, 2006)

*Six 13 is GREAT.*

You are agonizing over the bike for a good reason. You want to be comfortable on long rides and not feel beat up. I ride with a guy who has a Synapse and he is in his early 50's. You couldn't pry him off the bike if you try. He loves it.

I have a 60 cm Six 13 Pro 2 and LOVE IT. It is a rocket up hills but is great on the rough stuff too because it has carbon forks, down tube and seat post. It is a smoother ride than my steel custom built race bike that I bought 21 years ago.

Try a Six 13 at another shop if they don't have the right size. Buy from the shop that has given you great service. The margin on bikes is small compared to accessories so don't ask for more that $100 off. In the end, you want to be happy with your purchase. I would have liked the DA on my bike but I could not justify the price difference. I find the Ultegra to shift smoothly although I have never tried DA.

If you have the money, then go for the better components, but also go for comfort. Your back will thank you. I have arthritis in my lower back along with a bulging disc. The Six 13 is comfortable enough for me on long rides.

Good luck


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## asawlrider123456789 (Dec 22, 2005)

have you pulled the trigger on anything or ridden anything new?


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

Nothing new recently. There aren't any Six13's in town in my size and I am in a holding pattern waiting to ride a Six13 Team and the new upcoming System Six which is due sometime in July. I decided I really want to check that bike out. A new Synapse 1 can be ordered if and when I'm ready to pull the trigger on that bike. It is still my front runner for now. In the meantime, I'm logging hundreds of miles on my Trek5200 until the time comes to sell it and get the new bike. Whatever that happens to be.


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## Woolly Bugger (May 24, 2006)

Hey, did you ever bit the bullet and buy a new bike? You have left us all in limbo. Apologies if you have answered this in another post. I have been absent for quite a while and have not kept uptodate.


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## varoadie (Feb 4, 2005)

Around here the shops give discounts, a good example is if you are a member of a local cycling club they'll usually extend a 10% discount. When you frequent bike shops and tip well when they do service, bring pizza in once in a while and aren't a general nuisance in the process, they can really help with the costs, especially on big ticket items. At least that's my experience. On the other hand, I don't mind paying for good service. Good luck and hope you enjoy your new bike.


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## Bob Ross (Apr 18, 2006)

Woolly Bugger said:


> Hey, did you ever bit the bullet and buy a new bike? You have left us all in limbo. Apologies if you have answered this in another post. I have been absent for quite a while and have not kept uptodate.


Don't know about trek5200cs, but I wound up buying the Cannondale Synapse Carbon 2 in late June. Love it! Spectacular ride.


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## grodymold (Jan 22, 2007)

don't leave me hanging... what did you purchase?


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## bellullabob (Mar 20, 2006)

*Final Purchase?????*

It's pretty darn anti-climactic reading this whole thread and then not find out what bike was ultimatly gotten!!!!!

I was especially hoping for some good comparison between the syst.6, the 6/13, and the synapse.....


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## cat4rider (Nov 10, 2006)

why not call one of the custom builders? You can get a bike built for you and do what you want it to, well within the price ($4500.00) you are working on. Strong(Kirk, DeSalvo, etc) steel frame, ultegra group and Shimmy wheels are all very close to price and weight...and you get what you want, no compromises...


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## rideorglide (Dec 3, 2005)

bellullabob said:


> It's pretty darn anti-climactic reading this whole thread and then not find out what bike was ultimatly gotten!!!!!
> 
> I was especially hoping for some good comparison between the syst.6, the 6/13, and the synapse.....


+1

I reckon the OP is getting so many free test rides, he's hanging on to his dough a little longer ... ;-)


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## Abn1SG50S (Dec 4, 2005)

Does anyone know what trek5200cs finally bought?


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## jmess (Aug 24, 2006)

I just completed my latest bike purchase. I road the Six13 and SystemSix comparing them to my 04 Specialized Roubaix Comp. I then road the Orbea Onix and Orca. I was looking for something a little more sporty than the Roubaix but was worried that at 54 I might have trouble with longer distances on racy bikes like the SystemSix . The bike that spoke to me was the Orca, within two miles I knew I have found my new friend. 

So keep test riding bikes until you reach your moment of Zen. One bike will stand out of the crowd as the best for you. You might need to take some longer test rides to really hear what a bike is telling you. After 20 miles do you feel like you want to do another 20 or do you think you would rather try and do the same 20 tomorrow but faster. (comfort vs racey).


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

Abn1SG50S said:


> Does anyone know what trek5200cs finally bought?


Hey guys - I am sorry for the long delay after being actively involved in the thread. After riding and comparing a lot of wonderful bikes; Madone 5.9, Scott CR1, C-Dale System Six, Specialized Tarmac and Roubaix and others (CAAD8 etc) I would have chosen the Synapse after all my test rides and research. The bike just felt 'right'. It fit, it had a great ride and was very smooth. I am not a racer. Just a recreational/fitness rider.

I had some $$ issues and too much business travel that got in the way of my riding and consequent upgrade, So I kept riding my '01 Trek 5200.I am now back and am actively looking again. But I am strongly leaning toward just popping for a Synapse Carbon (Ultegra or Dura-ace) . I liked it that much, everytime I test rode one. ( a few times at least)

I'll be back doing some comparison rides soon! A good friend of mine works at a Specialized Shop and can get me a nice deal on a Specialized Tarmac or Roubaix. He swears they are better bikes than C-dales. But I am guessing there is a bias in his opinion. I also think he is remembering the old aluminum/harsh stigma of much older C-Dales.

The more I've read about the System Six, paired with a test ride tells me that bike is suited to someone who rides more aggressively and competitively than me. My 'head' likes to think I have to have the fastest, baddest a** bike out there. But the reality is; I'm 50, in decent shape, but I don't race. I want comfort with equally good performance.

Trek5200 - aka Gary


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## bikerbuck (Feb 2, 2006)

I rode the synapse, purchased a madone 5.2, Have a friend buy the madone, &

Pick the synapse so you can see how the madone looks from behind


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

bikerbuck said:


> I rode the synapse, purchased a madone 5.2, Have a friend buy the madone, &
> 
> Pick the synapse so you can see how the madone looks from behind


Cool idea! Yeah. Buy the bike I'm comfortable on. That's what you meant right?


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

I read in another thread that Cannondale will be releasing a Synapse in the Liquigas colors. Does anyone know if that is true and when it might be available? I imagine it would be an upcharge?


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## Helo300 (Jul 12, 2003)

*C-Dale Synapse vs. Trek Madone 5.2 SL*



shoerhino said:


> If you currently own a 5200 and like the fit reasonable well (and assuming the geometry has not changed much), you know that the Madone in the comparable size will fit. Did the sizing of the Synapse seem to be an issue at all, especially since the frame sizes are 3 CM apart? Something to consider…
> 
> I just purchased a 5.2 SL Madone as an upgrade from a 2100. I had to laugh when you called the Madone a rocket because that's how I described when compared to the 2100. I know that bikes aren't inherently fast but the Madone definitely has a fast feeling...
> 
> ...


 I just had a professional fitting done at Cyclesport in Park Ridge, N.J.(BTW, one of the best shops around-first Serotta dealer in Country) and like you, I was looking at either the C-Dale System Six(Full Bore racing bike like the Madone 5.2 SL) or the Synapse "Performance" Bike. Based on my flexiblility(I'm 43 and quite inflexible for my age), the obvious choice was the Synapse. I was riding a 2001 C-Dale R3000 CAAD 5 frame which to my surprise, was waaaay too big for me. In a nutshell, I know that you, just like I, are being seduced into buying the racier of the two bikes. Just remember, YOU WILL NOT GO FASTER IF YOU ARE NOT COMFORTABLE AND POSITIONED PROPERLY ON THE BIKE! You can ride a bike that is up to 2-3lbs. heavier, faster if you are positioned properly to produce more power. Also, about the stem, I thought a shorter more upright stem would remedy the problem; not really. If you are too far upright, you unweight the front wheel and it affects your handling. The one thing I learned at the fit is that your back should be as straight as possible. This is achieved through a combo of 1. Increasing your hamstring flexibility and 2. A shorter Top tube/stem and steeper seat tube angle. Remeber, bikes like the Synapse, Roubaix, Pilot all have longer head tubes(more upright), sloping top tubes, longer wheelbases, and somewhat more upright stems to position you for comfort. As you get older, these factors are more important and especially since you are not interested in racing, forego the tempation to get the racing bike. After 2-3 hours in the saddle, you will not be sorry. Remember too, the Synapse is no slouch in the handling department either. Try not to be tempted by the forbidden fruit. It sucks to get old doesn't it?


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## chase224 (Jan 19, 2006)

trek5200cs said:


> I read in another thread that Cannondale will be releasing a Synapse in the Liquigas colors. Does anyone know if that is true and when it might be available? I imagine it would be an upcharge?


This is definitely true, I saw the bike in promo material at my LBS. I cannot remember what the price is ( I will check next time I am in the shop), I do remember it was not spec'd top of the line. It has Ultegra gruppo and wheels. The Liquigas System Six is supposed to be released late March/early April I would assume the same for the Liquigas Synapse.


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## chase224 (Jan 19, 2006)

The Liquigas Synapse suggested retail price is $3299.


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

I just checked out the 2007 Synapse 2 SL today. I'm going to buy one. But I need to decide whether to upgrade from the Ultegra wheels. Any thoughts? The LBS rep said the Ultegra wheels are good and offer a more compliant ride than Ksyrium SL's since the SL's are stiffer. I thought a good stiff wheel is desireable? I'm 200lbs right now, but will drop about 10-15 lbs max.

Suggestions on wheels and any other upgrades that would be worthwhile from the Synapse 2 SL (All ultegra/Dura-ace rear Derraileur)

trek5200 - Gary


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## Helo300 (Jul 12, 2003)

If you can afford them, check into the new Campagnolo Shamal Ultra wheels. They are just a bit lighter than the top line Mavic Ksyrium ES's and the same price. Sweeet looking wheel and like anything Campy, it's quality. I don't know much about the Shimano wheels but I know you cannot go wrong with a Mavic. The only thing about the Ksyriums is that they just don't seem to any one thing that well. They are a good solid wheel but ho-hum and mediocre. Of course I've just come off riding the first Ksyrium SL's which were on my old Cannondale R3000 CAAD 5 bike so I have not had a chance to ride the new wheels at any distance. My wife has the newer Ksyrium SL's on her 2 yr. old C-Dale and the bearings seem to be much better quality and the hubs are different than mine. I just ordered a System Six, Team SI 1 which is coming with the Ksyrium ES's so I'm psyched to see how they ride. They sure look sweeeet! Good luck with the new bike and wheel choice!


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

I thought Campy Wheels only worked with Campy Groupo?

I love the look of the Mavic ES wheels. Trivial, but they are that cool looking to me. I am not sure my pocket book is going to side with my vanity however. laughs.

The Ultegra wheels that come with the Synapse 2 SL appear to be well built. Is there any significant difference going to a Dura-Ace wheel? The thing I like about the Shimano wheels is that the ratchet mechanism is quiet. I just hate that loud clicking chatter from some other wheels like Chris King Hubs etc. Even Mavic Kysrium SSL's seem to be fairly loud. - Gary



Helo300 said:


> If you can afford them, check into the new Campagnolo Shamal Ultra wheels. They are just a bit lighter than the top line Mavic Ksyrium ES's and the same price. Sweeet looking wheel and like anything Campy, it's quality. I don't know much about the Shimano wheels but I know you cannot go wrong with a Mavic. The only thing about the Ksyriums is that they just don't seem to any one thing that well. They are a good solid wheel but ho-hum and mediocre. Of course I've just come off riding the first Ksyrium SL's which were on my old Cannondale R3000 CAAD 5 bike so I have not had a chance to ride the new wheels at any distance. My wife has the newer Ksyrium SL's on her 2 yr. old C-Dale and the bearings seem to be much better quality and the hubs are different than mine. I just ordered a System Six, Team SI 1 which is coming with the Ksyrium ES's so I'm psyched to see how they ride. They sure look sweeeet! Good luck with the new bike and wheel choice!


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## mikki (Apr 11, 2007)

Hi,
I have a Trek 5900, which is in essence, the 5.9. Definately the SL has some differences, I am sure, but I liked my 5900 until I rode a Seven. Talk about rocket! By comparison, my Trek has a "dead" feel to it. The carbon I think. The Seven had also Ti and the stiffness and corresponding "blast" it gave was astounding.

I am in the same process of discovery; good luck to you...Go with your guts. But you might try a Seven just out of curiousity...


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## karategirl (Aug 27, 2006)

Seven's are very nice. I test rode one when I was shopping, it was a very nice bike. However, I thought it was only marginally nicer than the Synapse, and the small bit of difference I did not feel was worth the extra $2,000. Maybe if I had money coming out of my ears. But I just bought a Synapse, have about 500 miles on it so far, and absolutely love it! (Sorry, no suggestions on the wheels).


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## mikki (Apr 11, 2007)

*Apples to Apples?*

Hi.

Just curious...were the wheels, handlebars and cranks exactly the same on the Synapse and Sevens? The components make such a huge difference I've learned when comparison shopping...The Seven is also custom; don't have knowledge about the Synapse...If it is, it would be great to save a load of money. I don't have loads, just prioritize, work extra and save like a madwoman.


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

Which version Synapse did you get? Carbon? What wheels and components? I am jazzed about getting a Synapse. I will be getting it in a few weeks. Synapse 2SL. Full Ultegra, and I'll put my FSA K-Wing Handlebar and stem on it since I already own them. I am just debating on upgrading the wheels to begin with. My options are Dura-Ace, Mavic Mysrium SL's or maybe the Mavic Kysrium ES. I know I don't need them, but they sure look sweeeeeet! (Vanity can be expensive huh?)



karategirl said:


> Seven's are very nice. I test rode one when I was shopping, it was a very nice bike. However, I thought it was only marginally nicer than the Synapse, and the small bit of difference I did not feel was worth the extra $2,000. Maybe if I had money coming out of my ears. But I just bought a Synapse, have about 500 miles on it so far, and absolutely love it! (Sorry, no suggestions on the wheels).


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## karategirl (Aug 27, 2006)

It's carbon, the FD is 105, and the rear is Ultegra.The wheelset is Shimano W550. I was a little worried about the wheelset, too, actually, but it's been okay so far. Eventually I think I'll want to upgrade. Actually, I should thank you, Trek5200cs. I read this whole thread with a great deal of interest when I was trying to decide on a bike, and it was very helpful. 

As to whether or not the synapse and the seven had the same components, I can't remember. The only thing I do remember is that the seven had a much nicer wheelset on it (I think it was dura-ace). Nevertheless, I still thought the seven was almost as nice.


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## karategirl (Aug 27, 2006)

Oops, sorry--I meant I thought the synapse was almost as nice!


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

Hey karategirl 

I'm glad the thread was helpful. You're very welcome! These forums are invaluable. The input from others has been a huge help to me as well. I may just take the Synpase 2 SL the way it is spec'd. I've ridden my comparably spec'd Trek5200 since 2001 with no issues. And that's with the Rolf wheels that were not known for being that reliable. I had a couple spoke nipples pull out, but that was it. So the Ultegra wheels are probably even better than what I have now!

I agree that even though some bikes like the Seven may be truly better, you have to ask yourself, will you notice $2000 worth of differences? The truth for me is probably not. I ride for exercise, pleasure, fitness and recreation. Comfort and reliability really matter more than anything. The Synapse delivers that in spades! And I think the color scheme's are way cooler this year than in 2006. Gary (trek5200)



karategirl said:


> It's carbon, the FD is 105, and the rear is Ultegra.The wheelset is Shimano W550. I was a little worried about the wheelset, too, actually, but it's been okay so far. Eventually I think I'll want to upgrade. Actually, I should thank you, Trek5200cs. I read this whole thread with a great deal of interest when I was trying to decide on a bike, and it was very helpful.
> 
> As to whether or not the synapse and the seven had the same components, I can't remember. The only thing I do remember is that the seven had a much nicer wheelset on it (I think it was dura-ace). Nevertheless, I still thought the Synapse was almost as nice.


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

have my deposit on the Synapse 2 SL! Waiting for my size to arrive. So I still have time to decided whether to do a wheel upgrade from the Ultegra wheels. I've been riding on Rolf Vector Comps since 2001 without a glitch other than a couple loose spoke nipples. Are the Ultegra wheels better, worse, same?

I love quiet wheels that don't ratchet so loud you hear then clacking when freewheeling. What wheels would be a reasonable upgrade that isn't too expensive? The cost to upgrade to Dura-ace was going to be around $700. (The Tubeless Dura-ace wheels) Not sure if that makes sense. I welcome your input. Thanks! Gary - Aka (Trek5200cs)


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## Dereck (Jan 31, 2005)

Gary
Thank you for your efforts in posting all this good info - and to all those who've contributed also. 

I've just started 'shopping' for a CF frame / bike - am bad at instant gratification, will be unlikely to spend anything before year's end - but you have given me a lot to think about.

One idle thought that may help others - one I have looked at is the Felt Z25/35 - same frame, different bits. This, like the Synapse and some others, caters well to me - shorter TT, somewhat more 'upright' position etc. (too old for a 'real' racing frame  ) 

Then I dug into the specs - even the 54 cm bike comes with 172.5 cranks. No way would they work for me. 

Figuring I'd ask the people who should know, I emailed Felt.

They answered back pretty quick too - somewhat oddly, the email suggesting that they didn't have enough cranks available to swap sizes, but my dealership may offer to help.

Neither Felt dealership I talked to - and one has a really good, well versed technical guy who rides plenty - even knew about their crank sizes per frame size.

My first thought was my usual - buy the frame, build it up with what I like, not what they like. 

Subtract the frame cost from that of a complete bike, you're getting the rest for about enough for lattes all round at Felt's head office!

Not sure if that is a valid criticism, or I should just live with it as the way the "bike in a box" industry works. The alternate is like what I did with my last lugged steel frame - go to a custom builder, get what I want to start with.

Now to find out what the C'dale Synapse model frame I'd fit would cost as a frameset...

Rambling somewhat - but am I the only one who is fed up with the 'take it or leave it" attitude to component selection?

Regards

Dereck


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

I don't know if the Felt is in the same league as the Synapse Carbon frame. You have to see the Synapse SL with the blue and black in person. It is stunning! Gary


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## jhamlin38 (Oct 29, 2005)

Get the synapse for speed AND comfort.


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## trek5200cs (May 4, 2006)

jhamlin38 said:


> Get the synapse for speed AND comfort.


Synapse does it all! I agree. Doesn't get the credit or publicity it deserves! The Synapse SL is a great ride! That simple.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Here's my bontrager rear wheel hub flange problem.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=89267&highlight=cracked+hub+flange

Happened while sitting in my apartment for 2 months this winter. I'm sure all the spokes were at reasonable tension (hey - it's even the NON-DRIVE side). I didn't notice anything funny on my last ride Jan 2nd this year.




danl1 said:


> IMO, it's the Mavic's over the Bontragers. I've seen the Bonti's pull spokes out of the hubs, and have seen the Mavic's take amazing amounts of abuse.


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## Mr. Jones (Jul 4, 2006)

estone2 said:


> Oops! Good call! Stupid mistake on my part
> Well, distorts in the sense that it dents and so forth; if an aluminum frame is damaged it does not look pristine. Same can't necessarily be said for CF, take, for example lances frame in the 03 TDF when he crashed.
> -estone2


I dunno if you were so wrong... The steerer tube may have distorted, but it isn't really something you look at all the time on the bike, as it's inside the head tube and such.


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## mcgsp (Apr 1, 2006)

*Try the Cervelo*

You will love the acceleration, the cornering and the hill climbing ability of the Cervelo carbon soloist. If you are looking into spending in the 4 to 5,000 dollar price range try one more bike.

I am just a bit older than you but I have am not fatigue after doing my weekly 70 mile bike rides or a century. My speed has increased dramatically as well, where I would average 17 to 18 mile per hour, I am now at 20 mph for the long rides.

Just my two sense.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

mcgsp said:


> You will love the acceleration, the cornering and the hill climbing ability of the Cervelo carbon soloist. If you are looking into spending in the 4 to 5,000 dollar price range try one more bike.
> 
> I am just a bit older than you but I have am not fatigue after doing my weekly 70 mile bike rides or a century. My speed has increased dramatically as well, where I would average 17 to 18 mile per hour, I am now at 20 mph for the long rides.
> 
> Just my two sense.



Try fixing your computer's wheel size and doing an actual rollout.

Either your old cpu was wrong, the new one is wrong, or a combination of both.

You don't gain 2 mph unless you were riding a cruiser or some old 10 spd from 1983.

That's my .02 cents.


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## hanliong (May 15, 2007)

*Madone*

I had Madone 5.9 SL as my beater bike before, actually very nice and responsive!, beside it is made in USA!!!!!!, stay away from Taiwannese frame tough Taiwan is the largest Carbon supplier in the world but yes their quality control is sucks! but if you have to buy taiwannese bike for some reason i suggest "SCOTT", the reason being because Scott had a aggreement with the Carbon Supplier In Taiwan but they have their own plant to process their bike! not just some other brands their bike came out from the same Assembly line with different bike manufactures. I dont have to named names here you know who they are! Overall if decided to go with 5.9 SL it's a wise decision considering different factors above and YESSSSSSSS THEY ARE NOT USING INTEGRATED HEADSET!!!!! GOD BLESS TREK AND CHRIS KING!!!!!!


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## hanliong (May 15, 2007)

I had Madone 5.9 SL as my beater bike before, actually very nice and responsive!, beside it is made in USA!!!!!!, stay away from Taiwannese frame tough Taiwan is the largest Carbon supplier in the world but yes their quality control is sucks! but if you have to buy taiwannese bike for some reason i suggest "SCOTT", the reason being because Scott had a aggreement with the Carbon Supplier In Taiwan but they have their own plant to process their bike! not just some other brands their bike came out from the same Assembly line with different bike manufactures. I dont have to named names here you know who they are! Overall if decided to go with 5.9 SL it's a wise decision considering different factors above and YESSSSSSSS THEY ARE NOT USING INTEGRATED HEADSET!!!!! GOD BLESS TREK AND CHRIS KING!!!!!!


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## woollyjoe (May 15, 2007)

Boht Cannondale and Trek will drop prices a lot later this year as Cannondale reveal their new line up and unfortunately, Cannons dont hold their value well.

With the money your talking about - have you considered custom builds?


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## stwok (Mar 15, 2007)

trek5200cs said:


> ............ The LBS rep said the Ultegra wheels are good and offer a more compliant ride than Ksyrium SL's since the SL's are stiffer. I thought a good stiff wheel is desireable? I'm 200lbs right now, but will drop about 10-15 lbs max.
> 
> Suggestions on wheels and any other upgrades that would be worthwhile from the Synapse 2 SL (All ultegra/Dura-ace rear Derraileur)
> 
> trek5200 - Gary


Check out Performance Bikes, they have Dura Ace wheels on sale for around $400.00 with free shipping. Here are the links for the front and back wheels.
http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=18425&subcategory_ID=5320
and
http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=18426&subcategory_ID=5320

I bought a pair of new 2007 Mavic Kysrium SLs on Ebay for $579.00 3 months ago ............ and they look great on my nude six 13 !! My bother has been riding SLs for 3 years now without a problem and he is a 200 lb. plus rider (as am I). So I felt very comfortable buying the SLs.


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