# Weight difference? Tarmac Pro SL vs. S-Works SL2



## tom_h

Is there any reliable information available as to the weight of frames plus fork, between these two 2009 framesets? (56cm size).

Nothing at Specialized's web site, or a casual web search. 

Given the favorable team/club discounts I can get on these 2 frames, if the weight difference were 200g (0.44 lbs) or more, it _might_ almost be worth it to go with the S-works model.

If only 100g-range difference, not worth the extra $ to me.

Look & Time-Sport publish nominal weights, too bad others don't follow their example.

TIA.

added 2/06/2009: 
Post # 32 has actual weights of '09 S-Works Tarmac SL2 (56cm).
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=1997187&postcount=32


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## ukbloke

Here's the weight break-down of my 2009 Tarmac Pro SL frame-set in white:

1319g, frame only
416g, fork with uncut steerer
227g, seatpost (350mm long)
121g, headset pieces including 20mm of spacers
I weighed them myself and I'm pretty sure that the weights are accurate to say +/- 10g. This is a total of 2083g or 4.6 pounds, and about 200g over what I was expecting.

I suspect that the 2009 Tarmac Pro SL is heavier than the similar 10R S-Works frame-set from 2008, perhaps due to the change from AZ1 construction to the current FACT IS and triple monocoque. It is quite a bit cheaper too this year so that makes sense to me. The paint is also a significant factor. It is hard to say how much but I wouldn't be surprised if it was in the range 100-200g for the frame and fork. On the other hand I love the white finish and don't begrudge the minor weight gain.

If you are really into saving weight, I think you will want the SL2. An SL2 in 56cm without paint should be very competitive in weight. You will also then be able to choose module or frame-set, and whether to go with the team or regular geometry. Your bank account will be significantly lighter too of course.


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## ukbloke

Another data point:

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=446086



> The S-Works Tarmac SL2 (11r layup) is about 100g lighter than the Tarmac SL Pro (10r layup) for similar paint style/color.
> 
> Also, the S-Works version is stiffer than the Pro. However, the new 2009 Pro model is stiffer than the old 2008 model S-Works Tarmac SL.
> 
> The Tarmac SL Pro is a great frame!
> 
> The exact weight differences depend on paint version. A fully painted white frame is heavier than a frame which has a lot of visable carbon fiber.


And an older one:

http://thisjustin.bicycling.com/2007/06/first-look-2008.html



> And while this bike uses the very stiffest high modulus carbon fiber Specialized has ever offered, a 56 cm weighs only 952g according to Specialized, and building up a sub-14 lb. complete bike isn’t a challenge. One interesting note: Specialized doesn’t run cables inside the tube walls because it adds stress points and these would have to be countered with added material, increasing weight.


I'm also sure that there will be some bike-to-bike variation in weight, and the lightest ones will go out to review. The spread between my 1319g measurement and 952g is a very significant 367g. Of course, this is an apples to oranges comparison, but my point is that weight gain from carbon lay-up, construction method, paint, size and frame cherry-picking soon add up.


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## tom_h

Thanks, ukbloke, this is terrific info! :thumbsup: Is your bike also a 56cm ?

I never really thought about the weight of the paint finish before, but like yourself, I really love the White color in both frames -- that's the color I was going to order .

Seems that "spartan" at the weight-weenies forum had exactly same question I did -- what a coincidence.

Since the 2008 & 2009 Sworks SL2 have the same description at Spec's website, I'm tempted to assume the 2009 frame (less fork) has the same weight as http://thisjustin.bicycling.com/2007/06/first-look-2008.html reports for the 2008 year: 952 g.

If the 2009 SL2 is indeed 367g (0.81 lb) lighter than your 2009 Pro SL, that's a large differerence for a frame -- with all the paint and mfr variables, it should still be at least a 200g (0.44 lb) difference, which is my threshhold for starting to think seriously about an SL2. 

However, I do prefer your Pro-SL's all-white paint scheme, over the SL2's white/black/goldstripe design


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## ukbloke

Sorry, I thought I had mentioned it, but clearly forgot. Mine is a 58cm, so your's will be a tad lighter, maybe 50g? I started off looking at the 61cm and am glad that I went smaller.

Interestingly, I suspect that a Tarmac Pro SL without paint is almost the same weight as the SL2 with paint, and substantially cheaper. I would have a hard time forking over the extra money for the SL2 to save weight (both are plenty stiff for me), and then blowing almost all the weight advantage on a paint scheme! But then the white finish is very alluring. I'm not into the raw carbon look. In fact, I want to try to forget that I'm riding on carbon/petrochemical goop. 

You can see my pictures in this thread.


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## tom_h

Also just found this reference; based on its posting date (2008-11-29), the data is probably for a 2009 model

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50448

*Frame:* Specialized S-Works Tarmac SL2 [_white paint_] *52 cm* 1010 g 
*Fork:* Specialized S-Works FACT monocoque carbon fork [_already cut_] 360 g
*Seatpost:* S-Works SL, FACT carbon w/ Zertz insert, 27.2mm 200 g 
*Seatpost clamp:* S-Works CNC alloy binder, 32.6mm clamp 35 g
*Headset:* Cane Creek 92 g


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## ukbloke

tom_h said:


> Since the 2008 & 2009 Sworks SL2 have the same description at Spec's website, I'm tempted to assume the 2009 frame (less fork) has the same weight as http://thisjustin.bicycling.com/2007/06/first-look-2008.html reports for the 2008 year: 952 g.


I forgot to mention that this one has the BB30 so that is lighter again, and you'd need the SL2 module to match it (yet more money).


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## ukbloke

tom_h said:


> Also just found this reference; based on its posting date (2008-11-29), the data is probably for a 2009 model


Interesting, thanks! 

Obviously, you'll need to take the very small frame size into account, and again its BB30.

For my measurement the 35g seat-post clamp was included in the frame weight.


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## tom_h

a 2008 model SL2 

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=47824

FRAME 08 SL2 (*54 cm*) SPECIALIZED 998 
FORK SPECIALIZED 330 
HEADSET SPECIALIZED 73 
SEATPOST SPECIALIZED (UNCUT) 200 
SEATPOST CLAMP SPECIALIZED w/FRAME 0

Seems the 2008-2009, 52-54cm SL2's are coming in at about 1000-1035 g (frame) and 330-360g (fork). 

Perhaps Bicycling magazine's 2008 56cm SL2 might also have been closer to 1000g , if it had the conventional threaded BB.


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## tom_h

topping ...

Anyone else, besides _ukbloke_, have frame weight data for a 2009 Tarmac Pro SL ?

TIA.


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## Guest

I would also be interested if anyone else has ridden both the SL2 and the Pro SL. Similar to the OP I may be picking between the two in the future and I'm looking for some comparisons.


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## ukbloke

Here's a (tongue-in-cheek) way to choose between the SL2 and SL frames. Choose between "agree" and "disagree" for the following statements:

I must have a 15 pound or less bicycle.
My power output is comparable to Tom Boonen or Paulo Bettini.
Money is no object - I have too much of it, or somebody else is paying for it.
This is a vanity bike and everything must be the best.
I must have the gold striping on that white SL2.
If you agree with _any_ of the above, then buy the SL2 otherwise get the SL!


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## California L33

ukbloke said:


> I'm not into the raw carbon look. In fact, I want to try to forget that I'm riding on carbon/petrochemical goop.


Think of carbon fiber as cotton and glue


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## pdainsworth

I own a Pro SL that I love. I am also heading down to Morgan Hill for a vendor training at Specialized in a week and half. I will be riding the SL2 at that time. I'll see if I can pick up on the differences and report htem here. Only problem is, with all the snow up here, I haven't ridden my road bike in a couple of weeks. Hopefully I can ride my Pro later this week before I go, to refresh my memory.


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## Guest

pdainsworth said:


> I own a Pro SL that I love. I am also heading down to Morgan Hill for a vendor training at Specialized in a week and half. I will be riding the SL2 at that time. I'll see if I can pick up on the differences and report htem here. Only problem is, with all the snow up here, I haven't ridden my road bike in a couple of weeks. Hopefully I can ride my Pro later this week before I go, to refresh my memory.



Thanks I would appreciate that. I am not too concerned about weight differences unless they were extreme, which they are not but ride comparisons are certainly of interest.

I will probably try and ride them both myself but that may be easier said than done right now.


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## ghostrider_13

*Pro SL*

My SL pro weighed in at 1160 in white size 52cm, Frame only.
I like it a lot!


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## tom_h

ghostrider_13 said:


> My SL pro weighed in at 1160 in white size 52cm, Frame only.
> I like it a lot!


Thanks!

This compare's to ukbloke's ProSL 1319 g in size 58cm. 

Seems likely the 159g difference is due to frame sizes. I can interpolate to my 56cm size and probably get a decent estimate for the ProSL.

Still undecided between S-works SL2 and Pro SL models !


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## tom_h

ukbloke said:


> Here's a (tongue-in-cheek) way to choose between the SL2 and SL frames. Choose between "agree" and "disagree" for the following statements:
> 
> I must have a 15 pound or less bicycle.
> My power output is comparable to Tom Boonen or Paulo Bettini.
> Money is no object - I have too much of it, or somebody else is paying for it.
> This is a vanity bike and everything must be the best.
> I must have the gold striping on that white SL2.
> If you agree with _any_ of the above, then buy the SL2 otherwise get the SL!


Hah!

If I was completely rational , this choice would be a lot easier  It's like trying to pick between some Porsche or Ferrari, knowing that a Michael Schumacher in a minivan would _still_ effortlessly outdrive me !

At these levels of bike, #4 probably is a strong reason, even if we don't always admit it , even to ourselves. 

#1 is an interesting & fun technical challenge, especially on a finite budget, but it's easy to forget that the difference between carrying 1 or 2 water bottles (about 750 g) completely swamps out the difference between the 2 bike frames.

Either bike will feel like a rocket, compared to my present bike (about 21 lbs.)


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## Dr_John

> especially on a finite budget


That being the case, I think the Pro SL is much better bang for the buck. The SL2's a great bike, and if you've got the cash and absolutely have to have the ultimate, there's your bike. Personally, in the SL2 price range, I'd be looking much more seriously at top level frames from other companies. At the Pro SL's price point, you can't go wrong with it.


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## tom_h

Dr_John said:


> That being the case, I think the Pro SL is much better bang for the buck. The SL2's a great bike, and if you've got the cash and absolutely have to have the ultimate, there's your bike. Personally, in the SL2 price range, I'd be looking much more seriously at top level frames from other companies. At the Pro SL's price point, you can't go wrong with it.


Were it not for my bike club's significant team discount, the Pro SL would be the clear choice. But, the discount puts the S-works SL2 within striking distance. 

Until recently, I was also shopping for Look 585 and Time VXR frames.

At these price points, there are no 'bad bikes', they all are darned fine.


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## Dr_John

> But, the discount puts the S-works SL2 within striking distance.


Yeah, my comment was more of a general statement. In your situation, with a good club discount on the SL2 and no option for bikes from anyone else, the SL2 would be an easy choice for me. Rather than looking at the difference in price between the Pro SL and SL2, I'd be looking and the difference in your SL2 price compared to top of the line frames from others. Looking at it that way, it's easy to sell yourself into the SL2


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## nis240sxt

My 2008 54CM Nude Carbon/No paint frame SL2 weighed in @ 989 grams, so with all the comparisons listed so far... I would have to say there is at least ~200g weight difference between the SL2 and Pro line, a little more so if you get the raw KL color. How much $$ difference between the two is for you to decide but if it's not too much, the SL2 is the winner.


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## tom_h

nis240sxt said:


> My 2008 54CM Nude Carbon/No paint frame SL2 weighed in @ 989 grams, so with all the comparisons listed so far... I would have to say there is at least ~200g weight difference between the SL2 and Pro line, a little more so if you get the raw KL color. ..


That's what I am concluding also -- that with a 56cm frame size and finish held constant, the S-Works SL2 may be about 200 g (0.44 lb) lighter than Pro SL (assumes fork is identical between models).

FWIW, the manager at the LBS opined "about 200 g", and another employee thought "100 g or less", but they didn't seem to have any hard data to back it up .


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## tom_h

nis240sxt said:


> My 2008 54CM Nude Carbon/No paint frame SL2 <SNIP>.


If I may ask, what is your "true" bike inseam (not pants inseam), and height?

I am 34.0 inch (86.4 cm) and 70.5 inch (179 cm), and the 54 frame feels a tad small to me -- 56 frame is possibly a better starting point for me.


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## tom_h

*S-Works SL2*

Well, after much cogitation and rumination, I'm heading to LBS tomorrow and ordering the *S-Works SL2 frameset, in Gloss White* (more like 2/3 White + 1/3 Black).

I actually think the Pro SL all-white is a more attractive finish, but the possibly 0.4 lb (200g) lighter weight for the SL2 swayed me, especially since I like climbing. 

For better or worse, this path probably leads me toward _moderate_ gram counting, selecting somewhat lighter (and regretably, more $) components than I might otherwise have chosen.

I'm not in a super-rush to build the bike, so it may be early spring before it's completed -- plenty of time to shop for best component deals. 

Present plan is to build up the frame w/ Campy Chorus 11 drivetrain, maybe Campy Shamal Ultra wheels (in 'titanum' color, not the pimpish gold) or a good custom wheel, and other parts 'To Be Determined'.


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## JacksonDodge

My '09 SL2 (Gloss Gold paint) came in at 1050g. Size 52.

Fantastic bike.


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## Guest

tom_h said:


> Well, after much cogitation and rumination, I'm heading to LBS tomorrow and ordering the *S-Works SL2 frameset, in Gloss White* (more like 2/3 White + 1/3 Black).
> 
> I actually think the Pro SL all-white is a more attractive finish, but the possibly 0.4 lb (200g) lighter weight for the SL2 swayed me, especially since I like climbing.
> 
> For better or worse, this path probably leads me toward _moderate_ gram counting, selecting somewhat lighter (and regretably, more $) components than I might otherwise have chosen.
> 
> I'm not in a super-rush to build the bike, so it may be early spring before it's completed -- plenty of time to shop for best component deals.
> 
> Present plan is to build up the frame w/ Campy Chorus 11 drivetrain, maybe Campy Shamal Ultra wheels (in 'titanum' color, not the pimpish gold) or a good custom wheel, and other parts 'To Be Determined'.



I agree with you, its too bad that particular paint job is only available on the heavier bike. I think the painted version is also heavier than the other SL's.


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## tom_h

tom_h said:


> Well, after much cogitation and rumination, I'm heading to LBS tomorrow and ordering the *S-Works SL2 frameset, in Gloss White* (more like 2/3 White + 1/3 Black). <snipped>


Frameset is ordered. Oddly, all colors _except_ White were available within 2-3 weeks ... estimated delivery of 56cm White frame is _April_ .

Probably just as well ... am expecting refund of income tax over-payment, around then.


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## tom_h

kytyree said:


> I agree with you, its too bad that particular paint job is only available on the heavier bike. I think the painted version is also heavier than the other SL's.


It may be that a thicker coat (or multiple coats) of white is needed to completely & uniformly cover the dark carbon .


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## hanover

tom_h said:


> Frameset is ordered. Oddly, all colors _except_ White were available within 2-3 weeks ... estimated delivery of 56cm White frame is _April_ .
> 
> Probably just as well ... am expecting refund of income tax over-payment, around then.


It'll be worth the wait. I had a Tarmac SL SWORKs until the bottom bracket cracked in a sprint. I upgraded to an SL2 and can't believe how much stiffer the frame is latterly while being much more compliant than the SL2 is. And so far, I haven't managed to break this one.


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## pdainsworth

kytyree said:


> Thanks I would appreciate that. I am not too concerned about weight differences unless they were extreme, which they are not but ride comparisons are certainly of interest.
> 
> I will probably try and ride them both myself but that may be easier said than done right now.


FWIW, I got a chance to ride the SL2 Team while I was at Speshy's HQ this week. I have to admit the SL2 has a somewhat "snappier" ride quality than my SL does. Some of that may be due to the lower head tube/larger saddle to bar drop. It does have a VERY stiff BB, as well. It felt really nice. 
So, I guess the question is, is it worth all of the extra money? Maybe if you are a serious racer. For an avid recreational cyclist, such as myself, I don't think it would be worth it.


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## tom_h

*Actual weights of '09 S-Works Tarmac SL2*

Well, my frameset arrived a few days ago, nearly 2 months earlier than quoted 

Below are "actual" weights. I used an Office Depot model OD-ES11 scale, with 1g resolution, claimed 3g accuracy, and 5000g full scale. I didn't have a calibration weight to verify the scale.

frameset model: *2009 S-Works Tarmac SL2*.
size: *56 cm* (standard geometry, not "team").
paint: *Gloss White w/ Gold Stripe*.
approx date of mfr: Dec 15, 2008.
SKU: 7790-2156

Frame only (w/ cage screws) : *1041 gram*.
clamp for seatpost : *23*
Fork, uncut : *400*
S-Works single bolt Seatpost : *202*
Cane Creek headset (w/ expander plug) : *102*
20mm of optional carbon spacers : *11*

I've never owned a carbon frame before, or held a bare frame.
It feels _*scary*_ light ! 
This is supposed to keep me alive and maim-free while descending a hill at 40 mph ?! ;-)

Incidentally, carton was labelled "made in Taiwan" and one of the numerous stickers on the frame read "hand made in Taiwan".


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## ukbloke

Awesome! It sounds like you got (at least) the 200g saving that you were looking for. So how's the build going?


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## tom_h

ukbloke said:


> Awesome! It sounds like you got (at least) the 200g saving that you were looking for. So how's the build going?


:blush2: Frameset arrived so early, I had not even ordered any other components yet!


So, a couple days ago, I ordered the groupset ---- Campy Chorus 11-speed groupset ... will substitute _black_ Record calipers ... 50-34 compact crankset, 12-27 cassette ... I have "weak" knees -- spinning fast OK, mashing is not ...

​Rest of the planned build will be ordered soon:-- Campy Shamal-Ultra wheelset ("Titanium" color).
-- 3T Ergosum Team carbon handlebar.
-- 3T ARX Team alloy stem.
-- Fizik Aliante Carbon saddle, White (now using the cheaper 'Gamma' variant and it fits me well).
-- Look Keo Sprint pedals (was concerned with abrasive wear on Keo Carbons).

​Unlike some, I've been getting good durability with Michelin _Pro3 Race_ tires and will continue with those.

BTW, thanks for making me aware of the Performance Forte carbon bottle cages ;-)
They were on sale a couple weeks ago, and I bought some "THETA" cages.


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## Guest

Sounds like a great bike, you will like the Chorus 11.


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## ksanbon

I've never owned a carbon frame before, or held a bare frame.
It feels _*scary*_ light ! 
This is supposed to keep me alive and maim-free while descending a hill at 40 mph ?!

Yes - you.ll be amazed and I have a Pro SL, not the SL2. One of my rides has a one mile curvy 7.5% descent that, depending on wind, I usually hit the bottom at 42 mph or more and can't believe how easy it is (I'm not that good - it's the bike!). Tarmacs descend like they're on rails and the only sense you get for speed is the wind in your face. You're going to love it!

Congratulations tom_h. We all know you've put a lot of thought into this and it's good to see it coming together for you.

BTW, I think Fizik's new Antares w/ kiu:m rails (white w/ black) would look great on your frame.


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## tom_h

ksanbon said:


> .. Congratulations tom_h. We all know you've put a lot of thought into this and it's good to see it coming together for you.. .


I've learned so much from this forum over the past year ... thank you all for being so generous with your knowledge & experience!


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## ukbloke

tom_h said:


> So, a couple days ago, I ordered the groupset


That sounds like a great build, and the whole package with the SL2 should be awesome!

I also ride a 50/34 compact by 12-27 (all Shimano), and the gear ratios work great for me. For 11 speed, it is a shame that there isn't an 11-27 since that would give you the same top-end as a standard double, and would be a really nice way to utilize the 11th cog. I thought about the SRAM 11-28 cassette (10 speed obviously) but the jumps are too big for me.

There is one down-side to the beautiful white paint ... cleaning it - especially around the bottom bracket and chain stays. I am glad that I'm using a back-up bike in the rain. If I was a team mechanic and had to wash all the team bikes every night, I think I'd rather be with Quick Step than Saxo Bank!


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## pdainsworth

ukbloke said:


> That sounds like a great build, and the whole package with the SL2 should be awesome!
> 
> I also ride a 50/34 compact by 12-27 (all Shimano), and the gear ratios work great for me. For 11 speed, it is a shame that there isn't an 11-27 since that would give you the same top-end as a standard double, and would be a really nice way to utilize the 11th cog. I thought about the SRAM 11-28 cassette (10 speed obviously) but the jumps are too big for me.
> 
> There is one down-side to the beautiful white paint ... cleaning it - especially around the bottom bracket and chain stays. I am glad that I'm using a back-up bike in the rain. If I was a team mechanic and had to wash all the team bikes every night, I think I'd rather be with Quick Step than Saxo Bank!


Boy, that's the truth. Every time I think I'm done cleaning my bike, I find a greasy thumbprint or dirt under the down tube. Argh!


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## Dr_John

Thanks for the thorough weighing, Tom. Nice to see some real numbers.



> Incidentally, carton was labelled "made in Taiwan" and one of the numerous stickers on the frame read "hand made in Taiwan".


Unlike some manufacturers, Specialized doesn't seem to try to hide that the frames are made in Taiwan, and I have no problem with them being built there. Made in China, on the other hand...


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## desirider

*Weights for Tarmac Pro SL*

I got my Tarmac Pro SL frameset today. Here are some weights:

Frameset model: *2009 Tarmac Pro SL*
Size: *56cm*
Color: *Team Carbon/Red*

Weights:
Frame+Seatclamp+cage bolts: *1130g*
Fork uncut: *408g*
Seatpost: *206g*
Headset+spacers: *120g*

The fork is massively oversized, and I cut off about 11cms leaving the right amount of steerer tube to fit a stem and all supplied spacers (20mm). The cutoff portion weighs *38g*. I can see part of a plastic wrapper stuck deep inside the seatpost, and I haven't been able to get it out yet.

Thanks to all the previous posters reporting weights. The information was very useful.


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## Dr_John

Great. Post some photos when you get it together.


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## ejh

I have an 08 S-Works SL2 54. Built it with Chours 10 speed UT compact look pedles, and ride ready W/ water bottle cages it is just under 16# complete. It rides great and I'm not sorry I went for the SL2.


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## giro

*SL2 xs information*

I 'm a really small guy compare to you all w/ 165 cm tall. On coming Tuesday, I 'll complete my new bike, SL2 '09. I 'll get all the weight of this smallest size for a comparition data.

Here in Thailand, for all I know, Specialized racing team get the frameset just 1570$. But unfortunately, we don't have Pro SL(which I think it 's a really nice placement) here. We have just SL2 and Expert for Tarmac series. Therefore, people love to select the SL2 and Expert were selected by those less serious cyclist.

Can't wait to complete and ride it on Wednesday!!

just curious, what is the reason why this top hi-end racing forks have almost 400g weight?? My current one is only 280g which will be more than 100g heavier for my new total bike. It that for stiffness context??


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## tom_h

giro said:


> ... just curious, what is the reason why this top hi-end racing forks have almost 400g weight?? My current one is only 280g which will be more than 100g heavier for my new total bike. It that for stiffness context??


My guess -- and just my opinion -- is that Specialized is designing their forks more conservatively.

"Ultra light" parts are generally more likely to fail or break.


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## desirider

If you look at the Tarmac forks, they are very massive. The 1.5 inch crown and fork blades are beefier than anything I have seen around here. It is obviously stiffer when you ride it. I didn't think I would notice a difference, but the first time I was hard on my front brakes I could immediately feel the stopping power with no hint of flex.

Also, cutting the steerer tube brought my fork down to 370 grams. I can still cut some more, but I just want to make sure I won't regret it. Overall it is one awesome fork.


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## giro

My SL2 was finished for a while but didn't have a chance to update the info. Frame size ZS or 49 in white/gold w/ seatclamp and cagebolt is about 980-1000g. I weighted it for 3 times before built it and got 980,1000 and 990.

Also, I weighted my old frmae, Bianchi 918 T-CUBE and found the same, 1000g. I finished with 7.35kg :

'09 SL2
'07 Campy CHORUS 53/39,11-25
Token T50 carbon wheels
Ritchey WCS carbon stem 100
Deda Aluminum handle bar
Look KEO classic
Ritchey plane cro-mo saddle
carbon cages and cyclo-meter host


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## ralph1

*S Works SL2 BB*

Does the 09 S Works SL2 come standard with a BB30 or a standard 68mm english BB?

I am thinking about getting a 09 S Works SL2 frameset and putting on my DA 7800 groupo with WCS bar and stem combo, I asked about the BB30 cause I already have a light and stiff crankset which is BB30. I will be looking at a 61cm frameset, I also have my DA 7800 hubs laced to Mavis OP rims (36 spoke 3 x) for my training wheels, for my race wheels I have either Mavic ESs or Mavic Cosmic Carbones. 

I have been tossing up over the S Works SL2 or the Tarmac SL2........I think I will go for the S Works, you only live once.

cheers

Ralph


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## ukbloke

ralph1 said:


> Does the 09 S Works SL2 come standard with a BB30 or a standard 68mm english BB?


The bike and the module come with BB30. The frameset comes with the standard BB.



> I am thinking about getting a 09 S Works SL2 frameset and putting on my DA 7800 groupo with WCS bar and stem combo,


That will work.



> I asked about the BB30 cause I already have a light and stiff crankset which is BB30.


To get BB30 you will need to buy the module, but that comes with the Specialized crankset too.



> I have been tossing up over the S Works SL2 or the Tarmac SL2........I think I will go for the S Works, you only live once.


That's easy - buy one of each!  No kidding. You can do this because they are one and the same. Take a look at the Tarmac specs on the Specialized website.


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## ralph1

giro said:


> My SL2 was finished for a while but didn't have a chance to update the info. Frame size ZS or 49 in white/gold w/ seatclamp and cagebolt is about 980-1000g. I weighted it for 3 times before built it and got 980,1000 and 990.
> 
> *Also, I weighted my old frmae, Bianchi 918 T-CUBE and found the same, 1000g. I finished with 7.35kg :*
> 
> '09 SL2
> '07 Campy CHORUS 53/39,11-25
> Token T50 carbon wheels
> Ritchey WCS carbon stem 100
> Deda Aluminum handle bar
> Look KEO classic
> Ritchey plane cro-mo saddle
> carbon cages and cyclo-meter host


My current steed a 08 System six with DA 7800 with my ESs comes in at 7.34kg, and that's for a 60cm frame. I rode a XXL SW SL2 two weeks ago with DA 7900 and it was magic stiff to ride, I was hooked. I'm sure the owner said it was high 6kgs. 

What is this "module" you talk about to do with the BB30? 

cheers

Ralph


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## ukbloke

ralph1 said:


> What is this "module" you talk about to do with the BB30?


It is simply Specialized's name for the frame-set plus their matching BB30 crank-set. One reason for this kind of product, other than more money for Specialized, is that after-market BB30 cranks weren't readily available when they launched their BB30 frames.


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## Dr_John

As a side note, when Specialized first introduced the "module" a few years back, it also include the Barmac stem/bar combo, which I never liked. Seeing how at least Saxo Bank is using the Specialized cranks now, I'd seriously consider the module now if I were shopping for a frameset.


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## tom_h

Dr_John said:


> As a side note, when Specialized first introduced the "module" a few years back, it also include the Barmac stem/bar combo, which I never liked. Seeing how at least Saxo Bank is using the Specialized cranks now, I'd seriously consider the module now if I were shopping for a frameset.


yeah, the crankset & BB30 seem pretty nice, very light, and stiff (based on some German magazine's testing) ... the crank has interchangeable spider for std (53-39) and compact (50-34) gearing.

caveat: performance & compatibility with Campy 11-speed may be compromised, as those Campy chainrings are both slightly narrower and closer spacing. Not much (tenths of mm), but I wasn't willing to risk it.

Plus, "modules" weren't offered in the color I wanted, at the time I ordered a frameset ;-)


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## PJ352

ralph1 said:


> *What is this "module" you talk about to do with the BB30?:*confused:
> cheers
> Ralph


If you are not from the US, the module may not be available to you. I changed my region to UK (just a guess) and it was not listed.
http://www.specialized.com/gb/en/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?sid=09Tarmac&eid=115


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## ralph1

*Price shock*

My dream of owning an SL2 was shattered into 1,000,000 pieces this afternoon when I visited my LBS and asked for a price on the frameset.....wait for it....$5200!!!  

The price of the complete bike....$12,990!!!  

I also asked for a price on a Cervelo R3, another heart attack inducing price for a frameset of $5900!!!!   

Why are the prices so high, our beloved sport is becoming out of reach for me, I have been racing for 28 yrs and nearly had my 1st heart attack today with these prices.


cheers

Ralph


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## PJ352

Just curious, where are you located?


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## tom_h

ralph1 said:


> My dream of owning an SL2 was shattered into 1,000,000 pieces this afternoon when I visited my LBS and asked for a price on the frameset.....wait for it....$5200!!! ...


 WHAT ?! That can't be US$. 
US MSRP = $2900, and significant discounts are sometimes available.

I'm guessing you're in New Zealand, as a currency converter shows USD 2900 approx = NZD 5100.

Does NZ also have a Value Added (VAT) or other burdensome taxes?


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## ukbloke

Assuming Tom is right, this is the full Tarmac line-up in New Zealand:

S-Works Tarmac SL2 SRAM 
S-Works Tarmac SL2 Dura-Ace 
S-Works Tarmac SL2 Frameset 
Tarmac Pro SL Dura-Ace 
Tarmac Pro SL SRAM 
Tarmac Expert Double 
Tarmac Comp Double 
Tarmac Elite Double

No modules, no team geometry, no Pro SL frameset


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## ralph1

PJ352 said:


> Just curious, where are you located?


I'm in Australia, land of the "let's rip off the cyclist"

cheers

Ralph


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## PJ352

ralph1 said:


> I'm in Australia, land of the "let's rip off the cyclist"
> 
> cheers
> 
> Ralph


Ah, no modules and no Pro SL frameset listed for you Aussies.  

I'm crossing threads here, but try to hunt down Bicycling Mag's buyers guide. They have an article on the Tarmac Expert and compare it to the SL2. They claimed a weight of 16.8 lbs. which (IMO) isn't too shabby.


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## tom_h

ralph1 said:


> I'm in Australia, land of the "let's rip off the cyclist"


S-Works Tarmac frameset,
USD 2900 msrp = NZD 5113 = AUD 4027 

There must be some heavy taxes there, to increase the price to AUD 5200


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## ukbloke

tom_h said:


> S-Works Tarmac frameset,
> USD 2900 msrp = NZD 5113 = AUD 4027
> 
> There must be some heavy taxes there, to increase the price to AUD 5200


Some of it may be tax, but Specialized don't set regional prices by taking the US MSRP and applying today's exchange rate. They will set regional MSRP based on their costs, their desired profit margin, the dealer margin, the shipping cost, what the market will bear, what the competition is doing, targeted pricepoints, exchange rate ... The US market is extremely competitive especially in the current market climate, and there are deals to be had here but that's not necessarily true worldwide.

Ralph's best option is to try the Expert and Pro bikes and see how they live up to his experiences with the SL2. If the test rides are favourable, he could get one of these, and perhaps part out some of his extra bike bits on ebay. Otherwise there are plenty of other bikes out there.


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## joshs

anyone know is the built up pro with Speci cranks have a bb30?


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## ukbloke

joshs said:


> anyone know is the built up pro with Speci cranks have a bb30?


Yes, the 4 Tarmac Pro SL bikes offered by Specialized (in the US) all come with BB30 and the Specialized cranks.


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## rollin nolan

Does anyone here know if it is possible to purchase a Tarmac Pro SL BB30 Frameset? I guess this would be the same as the module without the crank. I'm sure it's a great crank, but there's something about the Specialized crank that just doesn't do it for me aesthetically. I'd go with a SRAM Red BB30 or maybe the new Force BB30 that just came out.


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## ukbloke

rollin nolan said:


> Does anyone here know if it is possible to purchase a Tarmac Pro SL BB30 Frameset? I guess this would be the same as the module without the crank. I'm sure it's a great crank, but there's something about the Specialized crank that just doesn't do it for me aesthetically. I'd go with a SRAM Red BB30 or maybe the new Force BB30 that just came out.


There's nothing like this listed, so you'd have to talk to a Specialized Rep through a Specialized LBS. Perhaps you could get lucky and they'd find a "spare" one for you, but it's got to be a long shot. There's no module listed for the Tarmac Pro SL either, only for the SL2. If this is what you really want, you could buy one of the Tarmac Pro SL bikes (e.g. the one with Red), then part out the Specialized crank on ebay as new and replace with the one that you want. Alternatively, buy the SL2 module and again resell the crank.


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