# Confrontation After a Crit



## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

The video: Suisun Harbor Crit, 2013 - YouTube
The three riders involved come from three of winningest teams in norcal. I race against them (but I wasn't at this crit). They've been mixing it up all season. Sometimes the rivalry is friendly; sometimes it's more heated. What do you think?


Tell your stories about getting into after a heated crit. Better yet, post your gopro videos.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

*One more reason why....*

GoPro = Awesomeness


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## chudak (Jul 28, 2012)

It's only a matter of time before that guy ends up in jail...or has the living crap pounded out of him.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

They've been photochopping funny pictures for a while. The first shot shows riders from all three teams involved


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

I'm not trying to justify the rage following the incident here. But does anyone else have a problem with the videographer's move before that final turn? I'm talking about braking while taking the inside-inside-outside line? 

The winner #676 and the videographer are on the same team. Here they are on the front earlier in the race: 









From what I can tell, videographer rushes the turn with his teammate on his left (and opponents on his wheel?) brake checks everyone behind him.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Trying to squeeze the line on the inside is a dangerous move imo. A jr did that to me and I ended up in the hospital with 8 fing broken ribs, 1 clavicle and 2 punctured lungs. Not once has the kid said anything to me or the other 8 guys he took out. Many others have confronted him and he's always stated he did nothing wrong.


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## chuckice (Aug 25, 2004)

I think I see a bunch of babies. *shrug*


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I see the reasons I'm not a fan of crits.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Maybe Hutcheson wouldn't have been so butthurt if he had rubbed on the DZ Nuts that day.


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## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)

What a bunch of tools. Don't these guys know that this is completely meaningless. Oh, maybe for a new set of inner-tubes or something like that.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

brianmcg said:


> Don't these guys know that this is completely meaningless.


Whaaa???

The prizes for the P1/2 crit were valued at $200* split among the top five. And we're talking about the NCNCA Points series here!

*at least half in cash



But seriously, I don't think the guys were pissed off about not winning, they were pissed off about what they thought were dangerous moves.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Local Hero said:


> I'm not trying to justify the rage following the incident here. But does anyone else have a problem with the videographer's move before that final turn? I'm talking about braking while taking the inside-inside-outside line? ...


I did wonder WTF when I saw that. I lost interest and stopped watching the vid at the point the confrontation started.


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## Indetrucks (Oct 8, 2012)

Isn't this a race??? The guy can take whatever fooking line he wants.
Rubbins racing no?

Or are the rules different on a motorcycle as they are on pedal bikes?
The go-pro rider tried to take the inside line away from the lead rider as a last ditch effort on the last corner, well it failed. As a result he lost all his drive out of the corner and ended up mid pack. 

That's racing


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## anotherguy (Dec 9, 2010)

By and large you are talking about amateur cyclists, who have families and jobs to go home to, so no, making dangerous moves that could end up badly injuring another rider because you want to win a meaningless bicycle race is really stupid.


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## anotherguy (Dec 9, 2010)

That said, I can't wait to see the footage from this guys next race against them.


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## Indetrucks (Oct 8, 2012)

anotherguy said:


> By and large you are talking about amateur cyclists, who have families and jobs to go home to, so no, making dangerous moves that could end up badly injuring another rider because you want to win a meaningless bicycle race is really stupid.


So then can it be argued that these guys have day time jobs and they aren't doing this for the paycheck (to put food on the table). If so, then why are they even arguing... you got stuffed... get over it. Racing is racing.. if you are afraid of a little rubbing, this aint for you.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Indetrucks said:


> So then can it be argued that these guys have day time jobs and they aren't doing this for the paycheck (to put food on the table). If so, then why are they even arguing... you got stuffed... get over it. Racing is racing.. if you are afraid of a little rubbing, this aint for you.


Remember that thread you started about riding like a wanker?


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## Adim_X (Mar 7, 2011)

Seriously you all seem like a bunch of dbags....but I am Fred.....
Sent from my RM-845_nam_vzw_100 using Board Express


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Adim_X said:


> Seriously you all seem like a bunch of dbags....but I am Fred.....
> Sent from my RM-845_nam_vzw_100 using Board Express


Then leave.


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## Adim_X (Mar 7, 2011)

Sorry, sent from phone...meant to say they all seem like Dbags...wasn't directing at posters here...


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## Mr645 (Jun 14, 2013)

It's a race right? One winner and a bunch of losers. Every rider has the right to protect their lines and prevent others from passing. Typically whoever has the wheel in front, owns the line


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Adim_X said:


> Sorry, sent from phone...meant to say they all seem like Dbags...wasn't directing at posters here...


Fair enough.


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## demonrider (Jul 18, 2012)

I also think the videograbber's inside line into the corner was a newb move; I made that mistake not long ago myself while riding my first crit, realized it right away and have avoided taking a short line into corners ever since. Thinking ahead and position yourself accordingly helps avoid this... Of course all this is much easier said than done.

Having said that, I don't think the nature of criterium racing needs to change just because people with "families and jobs" are participating in it. And those guys whining at the end of the race are a bunch of little whiners who need to stfu. Mistakes happen, everyone came out fine in the end... go home and have a beer.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Indetrucks said:


> Isn't this a race??? The guy can take whatever fooking line he wants.
> Rubbins racing no?
> 
> Or are the rules different on a motorcycle as they are on pedal bikes?
> ...


You missed it. Gopro pilot and the guy first through the turn (#676) are on the same team. 



Mr645 said:


> It's a race right? One winner and a bunch of losers. Every rider has the right to protect their lines and prevent others from passing. Typically whoever has the wheel in front, owns the line


Again, I'm not trying to justify the post-race rage fest, but it's possible that the gopro pilot brake-checked a bunch of opponents on his wheel while one of his teammates went outside of him. He then went clear to the opposite curb to slam the door on the remaining break, including one of his own teammates.

Suisun Harbor Crit, 2013. - YouTube 

The optimal line is outside-inside-outside; he went inside-inside-outside. You're correct that there are no rules against taking a novel line through the turn. But I would be pissed if someone took a dangerous line in front of me coming into the final sprint in order to block for his teammate. 

Sent from my RM-845_nam_T_1000 combat hyper chassis while riding PowerTap G3 laced with Sapin CX-Ray and 25mm tires at 95psi; living tissue over a metal endoskeleton.


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## BruceBrown (Mar 20, 2011)

Local Hero said:


> The video: Suisun Harbor Crit, 2013 - YouTube
> The three riders involved come from three of winningest teams in norcal. I race against them (but I wasn't at this crit). They've been mixing it up all season. Sometimes the rivalry is friendly; sometimes it's more heated. What do you think?
> 
> 
> Tell your stories about getting into after a heated crit. Better yet, post your gopro videos.


It's a lot more fun to watch football where you are allowed to hit somebody on the field.:thumbsup:


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

spade2you said:


> I see the reasons I'm not a fan of crits.


Pretty much ... it's guys like this that have led to my no longer racing crits and focusing on TT's. Crits are full of skinny, testosterone filled junkies that like to ***** and moan as to compensate for poor performances. The biggest mouths are usually the ones who won't "EVER" take a pull up front.

The last time I raced our local Monday/Tuesday night worlds at the auto race track ... one of the "Big Sprinters" was at the back of the pack (about 70 riders) *****ing about how the guys in the back were taking bad lines through the corner. He was just shouting, pointing and being generally aggressive. If he doesn't want to see bad lines in the back ... he should get his butt up front and try pulling once in a while instead of wheel sucking the entire race and sprinting at the end. Funny thing is this guy is the biggest line jumper in the field and everybody knows he's a hot headed fruitcake!

When you are not getting paid to race ... it should be fun and enjoyable ... not idiots shouting at you because of a line you took. For me ... crits are not fun because of jerks like this. 

I'll stick to TT's where people actually encourage others on the course to push harder ... challenge yourself, help others and have fun doing it. That's what racing is supposed to be about.

These two need to back to grade school ... apparently they didn't learn how to play nice or just let things go.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

You hit your brakes in a corner because you cooked it and took a bad line (inside to outside) and got passed by riders taking the right line. Hit the brake and you go backwards. End of story. The rest is pure comedy. Skinny boys wearing spandex acting like bad boys...LOL. Reminds me of the tour a couple years ago where the one skinny dude took his front wheel off and started swinging at the other skinny dude. These toolboxes are why MTB racers laugh at roadies. As for guys having day jobs...I am sure the bike shop or pizza place they work at while going to the seventh year of grad school will be just fine with them working there with a few scrapes.


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## BlueWheels (Oct 17, 2008)

Just tell him "rubbin's racin' officer" and go on your way.

AND stop worrying about someone hitting your back wheel. Contact between riders in a race is scary, but it really isn't a big deal. Someone hitting your back wheel is pretty irrelevant--it's the front wheel that you have to worry about. If you want to ride in safe races where nobody will touch you, then you need to stick to TTs. Those of us who can tolerate a little elbow action and some occasional wheel rub will handle the crits and the road races for you. 

That said, I do intend to use the threat "it's going to be all over youtube, don't worry" in every argument I have going forward.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

BlueWheels said:


> That said, I do intend to use the threat "it's going to be all over youtube, don't worry" in every argument I have going forward.


Why limit it to arguments? I think saying "This is going all over youtube!" is the perfect way to end a bad date. 


Or a good one!


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Local Hero said:


> Why limit it to arguments? I think saying "This is going all over youtube!" is the perfect way to end a bad date.
> 
> 
> Or a good one!


I always opt for the chest mount harness before a date, as I feel the hat mount is a bit tacky.


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## skitorski (Dec 4, 2012)

Laughing my ah$$$$ off. Spook and tlg you guys are hilarious.



> spook-load-road-toad - As for guys having day jobs...I am sure the bike shop or pizza place they work at while going to the seventh year of grad school will be just fine with them working there with a few scrapes.


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

I love how he points out how straight he went (3:28) and then shows the clip... of him all over the #&$*ing road. And, that tactic - flying up the inside, diving in and slowing through the turn - is awesome... in video games where you can use the other car to keep you on the track... not so good on bikes though.


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

Local Hero said:


> You missed it. Gopro pilot and the guy first through the turn (#676) are on the same team.
> 
> Again, I'm not trying to justify the post-race rage fest, but it's possible that the gopro pilot brake-checked a bunch of opponents on his wheel while one of his teammates went outside of him. He then went clear to the opposite curb to slam the door on the remaining break, including one of his own teammates.
> 
> ...


Watched this video twice. Local Hero nailed it. If I was the guy in the video, I don't think I would be posting it as evidence that I was not at fault. 

I would also add that the guy recording the video comes up the side advancing on the group like he is going to leadout his teammate. I would have jumped in that leadout and would have been pissed when he brakes in the corner, then slows way down as he drifts from inside-out. He killed the momentum of everyone behind him.


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## arai_speed (Aug 19, 2003)

chuckice said:


> I think I see a bunch of babies. *shrug*


I felt the same way - I'm not really sure WTF they were so sore about.


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## Full_Spectrum (Oct 30, 2012)

In MX or M/C road racing that last corner pass (a block pass) would be more reasonable, but it really is a dick move on a bicycle.

It "seems" like a planned tactic to black pass everyone behind his team-mate to allow him to escape. Yes, it is effective. Still, going to win no friends with that one.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Just a bunch of has-beens that never were taking themself way to seriously. It's a meaningless bike race....get over yourself.
As a hockey player I'm all to familiar with this brand of power tool. At least in hockey though when there's confrontations on the ice it's almost always forgotten afterwards and two guys who might punch each other out on the ice are pretty likely to share a beer and have a laugh after the game.
The whole 'I'm posing this on youtube' bit is a whole new level of d-bad.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Jay Strongbow said:


> The whole 'I'm posing this on youtube' bit is a whole new level of d-bad.


What level is assault and destruction of property?

I'd say assaulting someone and damaging their property... over a meaningless bike race... is the epitome of d-bag'ery.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

tlg said:


> What level is assault and destruction of property?
> 
> I'd say assaulting someone and damaging their property... over a meaningless bike race... is the epitome of d-bag'ery.


Are you seriously trying to argue with a stranger on the internet over who's the bigger d-bag amoungst other strangers whos argument is posted on the internet. I'll pass.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Jay Strongbow said:


> Are you seriously trying to argue with a stranger on the internet over who's the bigger d-bag amoungst other strangers whos argument is posted on the internet. I'll pass.


You do realize... it's a discussion forum, where pretty much everone is a stranger. 

Feel free to pass on all discussions with strangers.


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

Jay Strongbow said:


> Just a bunch of has-beens that never were taking themself way to seriously. It's a meaningless bike race....get over yourself


Yeah Jay, you're right. Once we retire from being pro, our lives are meaningless. Why train? Why compete? It's all just meaningless. Amateur sports have no place in a modern society. You nailed it: They're "taking themself way to seriously"... that singular entity (themself) as they travel to a place called "seriously" Huh? Yeah, I was confused too when I read your post.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

OldZaskar said:


> Yeah Jay, you're right. Once we retire from being pro, our lives are meaningless. *Why train? Why compete?* It's all just meaningless. Amateur sports have no place in a modern society. You nailed it: They're "taking themself way to seriously"... that singular entity (themself) as they travel to a place called "seriously" Huh? Yeah, I was confused too when I read your post.


IMO, to get in confrontations afterwards and to drag it on by making a big deal out of it on the internet is not the answer to why train and why compete. If that's why you train and compete knock youself out.....personally I think it's sad.


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

Jay Strongbow said:


> IMO, to get in confrontations afterwards and to drag it on by making a big deal out of it on the internet is not the answer to why train and why compete. If that's why you train and compete knock youself out.....personally I think it's sad.


Nice try. Your earlier post (the one I quoted) suggested the RACE is meaningless - not that the behavior is meaningless. Amateur racing is not meaningless. It means a LOT to everyone involved. Sure, it's not their job. It's not saving the whales, curing cancer or finding unicorns.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

OldZaskar said:


> Nice try. *Your earlier post (the one I quoted) suggested the RACE is meaningless *- not that the behavior is meaningless. Amateur racing is not meaningless. It means a LOT to everyone involved. Sure, it's not their job. It's not saving the whales, curing cancer or finding unicorns.


Oh I'm definitely not trying to back away from that. I still think it's a meaningless race and am not trying to imply otherwise.

I'd rather not get pedantic over word usage but I would have thought by using the word meaninless it would be understand I meant in the broader sense and not on the individual level.
By posting it on the youtube I think that guy implys he feels his race has a broader meaning than just his own, which it doesn't.


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## chudak (Jul 28, 2012)

So now the "confrontation after the crit" has devolved to the "confrontation about the discussion about the confrontation after the crit". 

Lovely...


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

Local Hero said:


> I'm not trying to justify the rage following the incident here. But does anyone else have a problem with the videographer's move before that final turn? I'm talking about braking while taking the inside-inside-outside line?
> 
> The winner #676 and the videographer are on the same team. Here they are on the front earlier in the race:
> 
> ...


I have to agree, he rides like a jerk. Dic move especially if he did it to hose those behind him.
I don't get the whole videography thing, ride the bike or take pictures.
As to the confrontation afterwards, why bother.


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

spookyload said:


> You hit your brakes in a corner because you cooked it and took a bad line (inside to outside) and got passed by riders taking the right line. Hit the brake and you go backwards. End of story. The rest is pure comedy. Skinny boys wearing spandex acting like bad boys...LOL. Reminds me of the tour a couple years ago where the one skinny dude took his front wheel off and started swinging at the other skinny dude. These toolboxes are why MTB racers laugh at roadies. As for guys having day jobs...I am sure the bike shop or pizza place they work at while going to the seventh year of grad school will be just fine with them working there with a few scrapes.


No, he took that line and hit his brakes to block for a teammate. It worked, but it may have been an "abrupt motion" that "interfere[d] with the forward progress of another rider." I'm not saying it was (I wasn't there).

One the one hand, I know that these are good and experienced racers (the most animated of them being extremely experienced), so they do know what they're talking about, but on the other hand (from my experience and my reliance on anecdotes related to me by others), I suspect that at least one of the aggrieved parties may have done the same sort of thing if the positions were switched, so at the end of the day I find the complaining afterwards to be a little over the top.
As to others here who have said "rubbin's racin'" or similar, sure, that's true, but that doesn't mean there are no rules (e.g., the quoted rule above).


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Jay Strongbow said:


> Just a bunch of has-beens that never were taking themself way to seriously. It's a meaningless bike race....get over yourself.
> As a hockey player I'm all to familiar with this brand of power tool. At least in hockey though when there's confrontations on the ice it's almost always forgotten afterwards and two guys who might punch each other out on the ice are pretty likely to share a beer and have a laugh after the game.
> The whole 'I'm posing this on youtube' bit is a whole new level of d-bad.


Can we all agree that hockey is superior to cycling?

Just kidding. 

The thing is, not a single guy involved is a bad guy, just like hockey players who duke it out on the ice aren't bad guys. Even if a guy made a dangerous move or someone said something stupid, I don't think a single one of these riders is intentionally malicious (if they are, f 'em). These guys just got into a confrontation after mixing it up in the race. 

As far as having a beer after the race goes, it might take these guys a little longer to work it out, if they ever work it out. Roadie grudges can last decades. But I get the feeling that they'll reach some level of civility in a few races. These teams go head to head every weekend.


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## chuckice (Aug 25, 2004)

More haymakers, less jibberjabber, please.
Cyclists fighting - YouTube


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

the difference is, the videographer made a few dumb moves that could have resulted in serious injury - I'm not the only masters age guy who doesn't race crits anymore because my back is a patchwork of scars, I have permanent lumps of scar tissue on both hips, etc. after a few hundred crits in my life and more crashes than I care to remember, almost all of which were due to guys like this videographer making stupid moves. Guys who make a move to the front then blow and serve as nothing but road furniture for the rest, guys who take stupid lines into corners that jam everyone up. He's lucky he didn't take out the pack on that corner. Good thing it was his teammate that chopped him. None of it deserves a beat down, but the guy should be told he rode like an idiot. 



Local Hero said:


> Can we all agree that hockey is superior to cycling?
> 
> Just kidding.
> 
> ...


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

These guys even argue like pro wannabes. Until you take your wheel off and swing it at someone, you are just a FRED. Unfortunately, Barredo couldn't outwit the wiley Costa and was de-armed immediately. Don't grip the wheel to tightly or you will be easily disarmed.


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## Indetrucks (Oct 8, 2012)

YES!!111one!!1


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

And yet you tout your hockey experience as a better version where has beens punch each other over meaningless hockey matches?



Jay Strongbow said:


> Oh I'm definitely not trying to back away from that. I still think it's a meaningless race and am not trying to imply otherwise.
> 
> I'd rather not get pedantic over word usage but I would have thought by using the word meaninless it would be understand I meant in the broader sense and not on the individual level.
> By posting it on the youtube I think that guy implys he feels his race has a broader meaning than just his own, which it doesn't.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Meh, was this a cat 6 race??
People make mistakes like this, but seldom act like babies. Sh!t happens in races.
Last Sunday, got chopped on the bell lap. Didn't go down, so there was no yelling and crying. Reported it, and had witnesses, so the guy got relegated. That was it.
Later, the guy apologized, and I told him not to worry about it....."stuff" happens.

If you are afraid to crash, take up bowling..........or stop racing.
.
.
This little post-race dust up, was nothing...

Remember Roberto Gaggioli??
.
.
www.cyclingnews.com news and analysis


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> .
> This little post-race dust up, was nothing...
> 
> Remember Roberto Gaggioli??
> ...


Course Sundt and Gagg were real piece of work as far as riding with totally lack of care for anyone else safety, watching those guys beat on each other was almost funny.

The year after Gagg was driving the team car in Philly and we all started yelling "Hey 2x4" at him when he went by on Lemon Hill, he wasn't amused but we were.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

32and3cross said:


> And yet you tout your hockey experience as a better version where has beens punch each other over meaningless hockey matches?


Yes, I'm touting my experience in hockey as better than this video thing. The sports are irrlevent. People who cry after a meaningless game/race/match and make a big deal about it on youtube are bigger tools than people who don't.......just so happens I never experienced anything like this in hockey. Im sure it's probably happened though.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Fine, though I have to say that someone punching or being violent or threatening someone during a game/match/race is in my mind just as bad as doing it after and its way way worse than complaining (unless its boxing then its ok).



Jay Strongbow said:


> Yes, I'm touting my experience in hockey as better than this video thing. The sports are irrlevent. People who cry after a meaningless game/race/match and make a big deal about it on youtube are bigger tools than people who don't.......just so happens I never experienced anything like this in hockey. Im sure it's probably happened though.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

32and3cross said:


> Fine, though I have to say that someone punching or being violent or threatening someone during a game/match/race is in my mind just as bad as doing it after and its way way worse than complaining (unless its boxing then its ok).


Way off topic but fighting (during the game) is part of hockey. If you have a problem with that I can understand and respect your opinion but it really can't be compared to anything that happens after the game. For better or worse it is part of the game not something outside the game.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Come on its not "part of the game" at all. It happens a lot but its not part of the game other than its a activity that will get you a penalty.

Leaving my comment above for the record, correcting myself below..

Correcting myself here, your right its is "part of the game" in so much as it is a known and accepted practice, much like copping corners in a crit is part of the game. We all know that both are wrong but everyone that hangs around either sport long enough knows what happens and you either have to accept it and move on or not. Doesn't make it right but whinging about it is pointless. 

So basicly Jay I agree leave it on the field.




Jay Strongbow said:


> Way off topic but fighting (during the game) is part of hockey. If you have a problem with that I can understand and respect your opinion but it really can't be compared to anything that happens after the game. For better or worse it is part of the game not something outside the game.


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## King Arthur (Nov 13, 2009)

Personally, he had the line and was out in front of the group. Another coat of paint on his bike and there would have been a crash. I think the cyclist that can closest to local hero was trying to send a message. It's racing and caca happens. If you don't want to worry about what folks do in a peloton while racing, don't race.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Meh, was this a cat 6 race??


p1/2.


> Remember Roberto Gaggioli??
> .
> .
> www.cyclingnews.com news and analysis


Maybe next time it will be settled on the course. Updated: ?Intentional? crit crash during Speed Week puts Kenda?s Isaac Howe out - VeloNews.com



King Arthur said:


> I think the cyclist that can closest to local hero was trying to send a message.


I've raced with these suckas but I wasn't there that day.

And the guy first through the final turn--the winner, rider #676--is on the same team as the videographer.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

chuckice said:


> More haymakers, less jibberjabber, please.
> Cyclists fighting - YouTube


God, that's embarrassing.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Local Hero said:


> I'm not trying to justify the rage following the incident here. But does anyone else have a problem with the videographer's move before that final turn? I'm talking about braking while taking the inside-inside-outside line?
> 
> The winner #676 and the videographer are on the same team. Here they are on the front earlier in the race:
> 
> ...


I'm confused here. Didn't Justin Rossi - bib #15 - of Marc Pro Strava win the race? 
The Official Website - USA Cycling


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Your looking at 2012 results.



il sogno said:


> I'm confused here. Didn't Justin Rossi - bib #15 - of Marc Pro Strava win the race?
> The Official Website - USA Cycling


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Doh!!


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Disappointing that this was a p/1/2 race. That was sketchy and probably more than a little intentional. I get that mistakes happen. These weren't all mistakes.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Video from the same guy, without the drama: Suisun Harbor Crit, 2013. - YouTube


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

32and3cross said:


> Fine, though I have to say that someone punching or being violent or threatening someone during a game/match/race is in my mind just as bad as doing it after and its way way worse than complaining (unless its boxing then its ok).


Ahh, I reffing at a kid's Taekwondo tournament once, had a girl kick me in the nads...one of my friends got a pic of it. Everyone thought it was funny except me.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Local Hero said:


> p1/2.
> Maybe next time it will be settled on the course. Updated: ?Intentional? crit crash during Speed Week puts Kenda?s Isaac Howe out - VeloNews.com
> 
> I've raced with these suckas but I wasn't there that day.
> ...


I was lost after I read this "The accused rider, Jonathan Atkins (Beck Janitorial) contends". Who races for a janitorial service?


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## DasBoost (Aug 15, 2013)

spookyload said:


> I was lost after I read this "The accused rider, Jonathan Atkins (Beck Janitorial) contends". Who races for a janitorial service?


Maybe they're the sponsor to have for when s**t gets real? 

I've been looking for local crits to go to and Suisun is only about a half-hour away; thought of maybe joining for the fun of it but I deal with enough man-children at work and that's the last thing I'd want to deal with on my day off.


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

il sogno said:


> God, that's embarrassing.


Hey! It's tough throwing a punch in cycling shoes. Heck, I've almost fallen just walking on semi-slick surfaces in cycling shoes.


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## moostapha (Oct 1, 2009)

So...gopro-dude rode like an *******, "leading out" his teammate and blocking followers by braking at the apex. His opponents covered their line and got cut off from running down #676, who won, and decided to be babies about it after the race. 

Gopro-dbag did not leave room on the outside, at least not like he said he did. He crossed the normal apexing line. And then he slowed down to a crawl in the middle of the normal exit line and made people ride around him. He's a d-bag. 

In auto racing, it seems like he probably would have been penalized and/or fined. I've watched lapped racers do that in touring car races...and it leads to fines. 

Whether that's acceptable for crit racing would be a matter for judges...but if I were a sponsor, I'd be _pissed_ to see people acting or racing like that wearing my company's logo. 

You know you're on shaky footing when the first part of your argument is telling someon to turn off a camera.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

spade2you said:


> Disappointing that this was a p/1/2 race. That was sketchy and probably more than a little intentional. I get that mistakes happen. These weren't all mistakes.


I rode the E4/5 race. Since it included Cat 5s they let them rejoin the pack if they were dropped. One of them decided to rejoin the front of the field in the middle of the off camber turn. That was lovely.

It also smelt like bacon on turn 2 for 36 laps. That made me hungry.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

Late to the party.

That's a funny video. It's hard to see everything those two were complaining about and most of it was probably trivial. But in my opinion, if you stuff the field in the last turn by taking the inside line, you are a jerk, even if you are within the rules to do so. Those two should have focused on the message and not gotten physical, and let the camera roll on as you tell this guy off.


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## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

Hmm... I've always been under the impression that blocking was illegal. Sure guys get up front and slow the pace to let teammates get away, but changing lines or hitting the brakes is a no no.
If someone changed lines, got if front of me and hit the brakes, we would be having a chat post race. And I'm not a "skinny cyclist" nor do I fight like one.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

I thought if you are on the front you get to pick whatever line you want.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

T K said:


> Hmm... I've always been under the impression that blocking was illegal. Sure guys get up front and slow the pace to let teammates get away, but changing lines or hitting the brakes is a no no.
> If someone changed lines, got if front of me and hit the brakes, we would be having a chat post race. And I'm not a "skinny cyclist" nor do I fight like one.


But you talk just like every other internet tough guy.


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## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

No, internet tough guys threaten people from miles away while sitting in their basements. I didn't do that.
Point is, I would have no problem calmly and politely letting someone know what they are doing is unsafe. Wouldn't get all up their grill about it. If they want to fight about it that's on them.


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## Rusted Angel (Sep 19, 2010)

Children...


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Local Hero said:


> Again, I'm not trying to justify the post-race rage fest, but it's possible that the gopro pilot brake-checked a bunch of opponents on his wheel while one of his teammates went outside of him. He then went clear to the opposite curb to slam the door on the remaining break, including one of his own teammates.


Yup. Can even hear his brakes making that wonderful *hummmp* sound. Hear it again at the end when he stops. 

I can understand him pointing out the attitude issues of the 140# warriors but he can't really claim to be at no fault


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

Is this the same team that pretty much crashed them selves out of san rafeal?

San Rafael Twilight 2013 - YouTube


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

I rode over a guys wheel when a pileup happened right in front of me in a crit. I stayed upright and was able to rejoin the pack since they all slowed to see what happened. I finished about 20 deep and after the race, the guy whose wheel I had run over approached me wanting my insurance info. It was a Zipp 303 and it was broken in several pieces, bummer. I just ignored him and put my stuff away. 

In my years of racing, I've seen some parking lot fights. Most are comical, one ended with the instigator cramped. Stuff that happens in a race is stuff that happens in a race. Stuff that happens in a parking lot can be assault or destruction of property.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

foto said:


> Is this the same team that pretty much crashed them selves out of san rafeal?
> 
> San Rafael Twilight 2013 - YouTube


Yes, it's the same team. But make no mistake, they are one of the strongest and most well organized teams around. The crashes and this incident are unusual. For the most part these guys are good.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

T K said:


> No, internet tough guys threaten people from miles away while sitting in their basements. I didn't do that.
> Point is, I would have no problem calmly and politely letting someone know what they are doing is unsafe. Wouldn't get all up their grill about it. If they want to fight about it that's on them.


If you do race expect to be upset a lot cause **** like that happens all the time. If you rolled up to me to discuss it after a race I would shrug my shoulders and tell you to get over it, end of "discussion".


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

bigbill said:


> ...the guy whose wheel I had run over approached me *wanting my insurance info.* It was a Zipp 303 and it was broken in several pieces, bummer...


That is comical.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

bigbill said:


> I finished about 20 deep and after the race, the guy whose wheel I had run over approached me wanting my insurance info. It was a Zipp 303 and it was broken in several pieces, bummer. I just ignored him and put my stuff away.


That was def the best response.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

I would have given him my flood insurance info and told him to file a claim.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

This thread delivers.

1) I love criteriums
2) I frequently b*tch at riders for taking bad lines in turns
3) "this is going to be all over youtube, don't worry" is my new catchphrase.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

spookyload said:


> These guys even argue like pro wannabes. Until you take your wheel off and swing it at someone, you are just a FRED. Unfortunately, Barredo couldn't outwit the wiley Costa and was de-armed immediately. Don't grip the wheel to tightly or you will be easily disarmed.



Thanks to our UCI Overlords' enforcement of the lawyer tab rules, this can never happen again.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

Creakyknees said:


> This thread delivers.
> 
> 1) I love criteriums
> 2) I frequently b*tch at riders for taking bad lines in turns
> 3) "this is going to be all over youtube, don't worry" is my new catchphrase.


I'm a mouthy f*ck in a crit. I always raced them on 32H tubulars (campy Sigma or GEL330's) and sprinter 250's. If someone was a jerk, you just make sure they're on your left side when force them into the curb. They either grab their brakes or you tear up their front wheel. I guess I was that guy. The crit at Masters Nationals in 96 had some really strong types that laid back the whole time and then tried to force their way to the front near the end. The door was slammed pretty hard on them.


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## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

bigbill said:


> I'm a mouthy f*ck in a crit. I always raced them on 32H tubulars (campy Sigma or GEL330's) and sprinter 250's. If someone was a jerk, you just make sure they're on your left side when force them into the curb. They either grab their brakes or you tear up their front wheel. I guess I was that guy. The crit at Masters Nationals in 96 had some really strong types that laid back the whole time and then tried to force their way to the front near the end. The door was slammed pretty hard on them.


I like this Bill. Except I personally don't talk much in a crit except for the occasional "hey hey" if someone cuts me off or dive bombs a corner.
I am not afraid or worried about crashing in a crit. I love the whole rubbing elbows and trading paint aspect of it. It is a rush for sure. I will defend my line and race hard.
It's the guys who do stupid, rookie, careless or ignorant things that jeopardize the safety of others that I have a problem with.
But then a lot of people think racing crits is stupid and careless by nature anyway, soo....


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## hummina shadeeba (Oct 15, 2009)

I don't know about him braking in the turn, I don't know how you could tell that, but the line he took was certainly risking a crash. Maybe he had to brake to avoid overshooting the turn with the line he took. But at the same time I feel a rider in the front has the right to chose any line he likes, there's no rule against it. In a way it was a great team move. Not that I respect it. 
My judgement is for the plaintiff but given the poor way 
they dealt with the incident defendant gets off with time served. Case closed.
The creep through the inside move pisses me off -you can't bump them out of your way without risking taking yourself out


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

hummina shadeeba said:


> I don't know about him braking in the turn, I don't know how you could tell that, but the line he took was certainly risking a crash. Maybe he had to brake to avoid overshooting the turn with the line he took. But at the same time I feel a rider in the front has the right to chose any line he likes, there's no rule against it. In a way it was a great team move. Not that I respect it
> My judgment is for the plaintiff but given the poor way
> The creep through the inside move pisses me off -you can't bump them out of your way without risking taking yourself out
> they dealt with the incident defendant gets off with time served. Case closed.


He was purposely blocking the peloton so the rider that won (his team mate) didn't have any competition in the sprint.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

hummina shadeeba said:


> I don't know about him braking in the turn, I don't know how you could tell that,


you can see his hand on the front brake if you look to the left side of the screen


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Local Hero said:


> you can see his hand on the front brake if you look to the left side of the screen


Back and to the left. Back and to the left.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

hummina shadeeba said:


> I don't know about him braking in the turn, I don't know how you could tell that, but the line he took was certainly risking a crash.


want to guess if he rides carbon rims?


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## hummina shadeeba (Oct 15, 2009)

Nowonder they were pissed off.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Are you going to watch the giro di sf?


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## runabike (Jun 18, 2013)

Man, watching that was a complete waste of time. 

I don't know what's worse, my wasting 2 mins watching that stupid crap or the maker spending god knows how long making it as if it were anything worth showing other people in the first place. 

Ugh.


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## hummina shadeeba (Oct 15, 2009)

I flatted in the 35+ 4s. Awful roads. U do it?


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## SNS1938 (Aug 9, 2013)

When the guy with the camera ends up on the poor line into the corner and coming out of it you see him just in the way of everyone, I was expecting a crash with someone from behind being left with no line.

So he powered ahead of a few people on a straight, then took a poor line and ran out of steam to stick with them? runabike is right, the guy filming should spend more time training and less time editing videos. Then maybe he'd pull in front on the straight and be able to stay ahead for longer.


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

SNS1938 said:


> When the guy with the camera ends up on the poor line into the corner and coming out of it you see him just in the way of everyone, I was expecting a crash with someone from behind being left with no line.
> 
> So he powered ahead of a few people on a straight, then took a poor line and ran out of steam to stick with them? runabike is right, the guy filming should spend more time training and less time editing videos. Then maybe he'd pull in front on the straight and be able to stay ahead for longer.


Actually, he did a perfect job setting up his teammate for the win.

That's why I don't watch football---I have no idea what's happening.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

You need a bit of context. The guy filming is a very accomplished local elite racer that is able to win P12 races, but often serves as a lead out. Leading out is exactly what he is doing here, and the result is his teammate wins the race. As far as the bad line, he leaves enough room for his teammate to get through and maybe one other aside from that who cares getting his teammate to the last corner first was the goal, goal accomplished. Was it the nicest move I have ever seen? No but then I have not seen much caring and friendlyness in the last lap of a crit when people are going for the win.



SNS1938 said:


> When the guy with the camera ends up on the poor line into the corner and coming out of it you see him just in the way of everyone, I was expecting a crash with someone from behind being left with no line.
> 
> So he powered ahead of a few people on a straight, then took a poor line and ran out of steam to stick with them? runabike is right, the guy filming should spend more time training and less time editing videos. Then maybe he'd pull in front on the straight and be able to stay ahead for longer.


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## SNS1938 (Aug 9, 2013)

32and3cross said:


> You need a bit of context. The guy filming is a very accomplished local elite racer that is able to win P12 races, but often serves as a lead out. Leading out is exactly what he is doing here, and the result is his teammate wins the race. As far as the bad line, he leaves enough room for his teammate to get through and maybe one other aside from that who cares getting his teammate to the last corner first was the goal, goal accomplished. Was it the nicest move I have ever seen? No but then I have not seen much caring and friendlyness in the last lap of a crit when people are going for the win.


Good points, nowhere do rules say you have to ride nicely and leave a clear path for other riders coming from behind you (I have not actually read the rules, but am assuming based on rules in other cycling disciplines). Nobody crashed, and I'm sure the roles will be reversed in future races. It will be interesting if the roles are reversed, wether they still have the same point of view about what's okay and what's not.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

SNS1938 said:


> It will be interesting if the roles are reversed, wether they still have the same point of view about what's okay and what's not.


This is the real point - I typically don't pull super aggressive moves because I race with same guys weekend and out, its not fun starting a race withe the idea that someone might be gunning to knock you over.


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