# Mix & Match Ultegra Di2 to Dura Ace 9000 Di2 is possible



## Cut.Aussie

Like many people I purchased Ultegra Di2 when it was first released to upgrade my Look 566 and then I bought a second set for my new Cervelo R3 build when that came along.

When Dura Ace 9000 in Di2 was announced I knew I would have to upgrade sooner or later but the price is step, very steep indeed to buy a complete groupset, plus 11 speed wheel set etc.

Around November last year I introduced a friend to riding and loaned him my older Look which he fell in love with and pestered me to sell it to him.

So towards the end of Jan I sold him the Look and used the money to place orders for all the parts I needed to upgrade my Cervelo R3 from Ultegra Di2 to DA Di2 and while the DA C24 11 speed wheels, crankset, chain, cassette etc arrived by the end of Feb, the Front and Rear Derailleurs went on long back order but finally arrived from Wiggle this week.

I'm pleased to confirm that you can happily mix and match electronics between both versions and the interwork just fine, so now I currently have this mix on my Cervelo.

Ultegra Left & Right Levers
Ultegra Handlebar Wiring and adjustment switch box.
Original Ultegra Battery Mount & Battery.
Original Wiring loom and junction box near the BB.
Climbing Shift Buttons under top of the bars (for RD only)
Dura Ace 9070 Di2 Front Derailleur
Dura Ace 9070 Di2 Read Derailleur
Dura Ace 9000 Compact Crank, Chain and Cassette.
Dura Ace 9000 C24 Clinchers

As and when more funds become available I will upgrade to the Dura Ace levers as the are lighter and possibly the internal seat post battery and whatever wiring changes are necessary to use it.

Only thing really missing is weather which is poring down with rain here in Sydney as I sit here writing this when I really want to go out and ride my new toys.


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## Sven_Nijs

Cut.Aussie said:


> Only thing really missing is weather which is poring down with rain here in Sydney as I sit here writing this when I really want to go out and ride my new toys.


I hear ya brother! (don't forget the bloody wind...) :cryin:


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## VKW

Did you have to do any firmware updates to get this combination to work?


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## Cinelli 82220

Repped for useful information! Thanks


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## Cut.Aussie

VKW said:


> Did you have to do any firmware updates to get this combination to work?


No firmware was upgrades or changes were needed to make this work although the firmware of all my original Ultegra Di2 parts was up to date have been upgraded a month or so ago.

The only requirement to get 11 speeds was to change both front and rear derailleurs together, every thing else from the old 10sd Ultegra Di2 kit works just fine.

Hoot this info helps


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## VKW

Thanks, I asked because I have both Di2 groups and was trying this to no avail. But I do not have firmware updates.

I also couldn't get the dura ace 9070 di2 working with the old battery mount. I assumed it was because the firmware needed updating. My battery charger is still undelivered so I haven't been able to update it.


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## Cut.Aussie

VKW said:


> Thanks, I asked because I have both Di2 groups and was trying this to no avail. But I do not have firmware updates.
> 
> I also couldn't get the dura ace 9070 di2 working with the old battery mount. I assumed it was because the firmware needed updating. My battery charger is still undelivered so I haven't been able to update it.


I know that the battery mount has had two (I think) software upgrades since I originally purchased them but I though these were mainly to address battery discharge issues some users were experiencing though it could be that Shimano also updated for 9070 compatibility at the same time.

You don't need the battery charger to do a software upgrade, just plug the battery mount itself on or off the bike into the PC interface box and check for updated firmware.

Another interesting fact I found out is that the new Multi-shift configuration data is stored in the battery mount itself, found this out while swapping battery mounts around between my Look and Cervelo and the Multi shift moved between bikes.
( I swapped around because I wanted to paint the mount white to match the frame colour)


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## Cut.Aussie

Well time, weather and the gods all came together yesterday morning and I got my first real ride with 11 speed Di2, not the longest but still 65Km was all I needed to know this is a winner for my kind of riding around Sydney with its rolling hills.

My typical ride speed is around 29-31kph on the flat and with a compact crankset and a 10sp DA 12-27 cassette I had an annoying big gap around that speed where one gear was too low and the next just a bit too high but no more, that extra cog makes a big difference.

I opted for the new Shimano Wide-Range cassette, that's 12-28 and runs like this
12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,23,25,28 thus for flat riding I'm mostly in a range where is gear is a single tooth step yet I still have got ratios for hill climbing.


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## TmB123

A question for you, other than the extra cog in the back, do you notice any difference in the shifting between the Ultegra and DuraAce dérailleurs?
Is one faster, or quieter, or...?


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## Cut.Aussie

TmB123 said:


> A question for you, other than the extra cog in the back, do you notice any difference in the shifting between the Ultegra and DuraAce dérailleurs?
> Is one faster, or quieter, or...?


I honestly don't think there is any difference in the shifting between speed or quality between Ultegra & Dura, they are both fantastic in that regard, perfect shift every time, front and back.

What is however very noticeable is how much quieter the new DA 9000 groupset is, not so much when actually shifting but when in a gear and just peddling along, it really is quieter, ie less chain to gear tooth noise especially the new 9000 crank/chain rings.

If you search online for Shimano's PR tech video's it seems the totally redesigned hollowtech chain rings now have a filling material which not only adds stiffness but prevents "ringing" of the chain rings leading to a quieter ride, love it


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## TmB123

Cut.Aussie said:


> What is however very noticeable is how much quieter the new DA 9000 groupset is, not so much when actually shifting but when in a gear and just peddling along, it really is quieter, ie less chain to gear tooth noise especially the new 9000 crank/chain rings.
> 
> If you search online for Shimano's PR tech video's it seems the totally redesigned hollowtech chain rings now have a filling material which not only adds stiffness but prevents "ringing" of the chain rings leading to a quieter ride, love it


Thanks, hadn't heard of that. I put mechanical DA9000 on my new bike a few months ago, there was a massive difference between that and my mechanical Ultegra bike with respect to smoothness, lightness and ease of shifts etc. Just wondered what difference there would be between two electronic groups from a user experience as all you really "feel" or interact with is the push of a button. I was supposed to get the DA crankset as well but Shimano doesn't sell the 52/36 combo here in Australia (go figure??) so stuck with the S-Works ones which to be honest, do look nicer on the bike in all black, but one day I still may buy online and go with the DA ones to try them out.


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## Cut.Aussie

TmB123 said:


> I was supposed to get the DA crankset as well but Shimano doesn't sell the 52/36 combo here in Australia (go figure??) so stuck with the S-Works ones which to be honest, do look nicer on the bike in all black, but one day I still may buy online and go with the DA ones to try them out.


I just checked, Wiggle have 52/36 in stock, use the power of the Net


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## TmB123

Cut.Aussie said:


> I just checked, Wiggle have 52/36 in stock, use the power of the Net


Yrah, i know you can get them off the web, just weird you cant get them in Oz. didnt help me the day the shop was building my bike which is when i dscovered they had the wrong Shimano crank......


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## uncrx2003

Does the crankset have to be replaced? or can you use 7900 or ultegra 6700 crankset?


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## Cut.Aussie

uncrx2003 said:


> Does the crankset have to be replaced? or can you use 7900 or ultegra 6700 crankset?


I think there is a good chance you could continue to use the 6700 crank and chainrings though I suspect that the 9000 chainrings are a small amount thinner and have revised lifting pins.

However having now ridden the 9000 for a few weeks now I can honestly say you want to upgrade for the amazing reduction in chain/gear noise, the new 9000 crank os so quiet its amazing and worth it for just that alone.

Apparently the new 9000 hollowtech chainrings have been filled with noise reducing material and it really works!


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## uncrx2003

Cut.Aussie said:


> I think there is a good chance you could continue to use the 6700 crank and chainrings though I suspect that the 9000 chainrings are a small amount thinner and have revised lifting pins.
> 
> However having now ridden the 9000 for a few weeks now I can honestly say you want to upgrade for the amazing reduction in chain/gear noise, the new 9000 crank os so quiet its amazing and worth it for just that alone.
> 
> Apparently the new 9000 hollowtech chainrings have been filled with noise reducing material and it really works!


Thanks for your reply. The new crankset is so freaking expensive. I got to find one used.


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## Cut.Aussie

uncrx2003 said:


> Thanks for your reply. The new crankset is so freaking expensive. I got to find one used.


Actually, while I agree the crankset isn't cheap, the really expensive parts are the new D9070 Levers, make the crank look cheap in comparison which is why I have now upgraded ever other part now but I need a new mortgage to but the levers.


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## paulm2322

*Compatibitly*



Cut.Aussie said:


> Like many people I purchased Ultegra Di2 when it was first released to upgrade my Look 566 and then I bought a second set for my new Cervelo R3 build when that came along.
> 
> When Dura Ace 9000 in Di2 was announced I knew I would have to upgrade sooner or later but the price is step, very steep indeed to buy a complete groupset, plus 11 speed wheel set etc.
> 
> Around November last year I introduced a friend to riding and loaned him my older Look which he fell in love with and pestered me to sell it to him.
> 
> So towards the end of Jan I sold him the Look and used the money to place orders for all the parts I needed to upgrade my Cervelo R3 from Ultegra Di2 to DA Di2 and while the DA C24 11 speed wheels, crankset, chain, cassette etc arrived by the end of Feb, the Front and Rear Derailleurs went on long back order but finally arrived from Wiggle this week.
> 
> I'm pleased to confirm that you can happily mix and match electronics between both versions and the interwork just fine, so now I currently have this mix on my Cervelo.
> 
> Ultegra Left & Right Levers
> Ultegra Handlebar Wiring and adjustment switch box.
> Original Ultegra Battery Mount & Battery.
> Original Wiring loom and junction box near the BB.
> Climbing Shift Buttons under top of the bars (for RD only)
> Dura Ace 9070 Di2 Front Derailleur
> Dura Ace 9070 Di2 Read Derailleur
> Dura Ace 9000 Compact Crank, Chain and Cassette.
> Dura Ace 9000 C24 Clinchers
> 
> As and when more funds become available I will upgrade to the Dura Ace levers as the are lighter and possibly the internal seat post battery and whatever wiring changes are necessary to use it.
> 
> Only thing really missing is weather which is poring down with rain here in Sydney as I sit here writing this when I really want to go out and ride my new toys.


Hi, great post and glad you're enjoying your group set. With your knowledge could you answer me one question please? The only thing I want to change on my bike is the Shimano R565 chain set to the Dura Ace 9000 

Shimano Dura-Ace 9000 HollowTech II 52/38 Tooth Double Road Crankset | Evans Cycles 

This is my bike

Trek Madone 4.9 H2 Compact 2013 Road Bike | Evans Cycles

Any help is much appreciated.

Paul


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## Cut.Aussie

paulm2322 said:


> Hi, great post and glad you're enjoying your group set. With your knowledge could you answer me one question please? The only thing I want to change on my bike is the Shimano R565 chain set to the Dura Ace 9000
> 
> Shimano Dura-Ace 9000 HollowTech II 52/38 Tooth Double Road Crankset | Evans Cycles
> 
> This is my bike
> 
> Trek Madone 4.9 H2 Compact 2013 Road Bike | Evans Cycles
> 
> Any help is much appreciated.
> 
> Paul


Hi Paul, Most certainly you can install the DA9000 crankset for 10 speed use and enjoy the reduction in weight and noise. I'm no Trek expect so looking the linked bike, I find it kind of strange that Trek would spec the bike Ultegra Di2 but use the R565 crank rather than the nicer and matching Ultegra 6700 Hollowtech crankset, I guess they were trying to save a few pennies somewhere.

Hope your enjoying the faultless shifting Di2 offers, I could not go back to mechanical.


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## paulm2322

Thanks mate,
I have ordered the 53/39 combo. Evans Cycles are fitting it on 9th August. I will report back here on the results. The mechanic said there may be issues but he would fit it as long as I was aware and didn't complain afterwards. 

I'm hoping it will be fine!

Cheers

Paul


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## mann2

Cut.Aussie said:


> Like many people I purchased Ultegra Di2 when it was first released to upgrade my Look 566 and then I bought a second set for my new Cervelo R3 build when that came along.
> 
> When Dura Ace 9000 in Di2 was announced I knew I would have to upgrade sooner or later but the price is step, very steep indeed to buy a complete groupset, plus 11 speed wheel set etc.
> 
> Around November last year I introduced a friend to riding and loaned him my older Look which he fell in love with and pestered me to sell it to him.
> 
> So towards the end of Jan I sold him the Look and used the money to place orders for all the parts I needed to upgrade my Cervelo R3 from Ultegra Di2 to DA Di2 and while the DA C24 11 speed wheels, crankset, chain, cassette etc arrived by the end of Feb, the Front and Rear Derailleurs went on long back order but finally arrived from Wiggle this week.
> 
> I'm pleased to confirm that you can happily mix and match electronics between both versions and the interwork just fine, so now I currently have this mix on my Cervelo.
> 
> Ultegra Left & Right Levers
> Ultegra Handlebar Wiring and adjustment switch box.
> Original Ultegra Battery Mount & Battery.
> Original Wiring loom and junction box near the BB.
> Climbing Shift Buttons under top of the bars (for RD only)
> Dura Ace 9070 Di2 Front Derailleur
> Dura Ace 9070 Di2 Read Derailleur
> Dura Ace 9000 Compact Crank, Chain and Cassette.
> Dura Ace 9000 C24 Clinchers
> 
> As and when more funds become available I will upgrade to the Dura Ace levers as the are lighter and possibly the internal seat post battery and whatever wiring changes are necessary to use it.
> 
> Only thing really missing is weather which is poring down with rain here in Sydney as I sit here writing this when I really want to go out and ride my new toys.


Good job, mate!


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## LarsBrandtNielsen

Great post.
question: so your 10 speed ui2 levers work with 11 speed di2?
and all 11 gears works?

why do you have to change the ui2 front drilleur in order to get 11 speed ?


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## Cut.Aussie

LarsBrandtNielsen said:


> Great post.
> question: so your 10 speed ui2 levers work with 11 speed di2?
> and all 11 gears works?
> 
> why do you have to change the ui2 front drilleur in order to get 11 speed ?


Yes, you can use Ultegra levers with DA 11 speed group set, save a lot of $$$ as the DA levers are very expensive.

You would have to ask Shimano why only 10 speeds without upgrading the FD as well.


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## the mayor

LarsBrandtNielsen said:


> Great post.
> question: so your 10 speed ui2 levers work with 11 speed di2?
> and all 11 gears works?
> 
> why do you have to change the ui2 front drilleur in order to get 11 speed ?


I would bet that you don't "need" to change the front deraileur to go to 11 speed. I have unplugged my 10 speed front derailleur and the rear shifts fine.

When the New Ultegra Di2 Hydro brakes come out...I am actually looking at going from 11 speed to 10 speed, as I have a bunch of disc wheels that won't take a 11 speed driver. Hopefully...it will be reprogramable.


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## spdntrxi

all I know is there will be a flood of 10s Di2 wears on the market.. I'm going to upgrade from Ultegra 10s to DA 10s Di2 on my wife's bike.


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## dkilburn

WoW, I have friend with a 10 sp to go to 11. I will let him know. Thank you!


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## carbonLORD

Wonder what happens if you just changed the 11sp front der from an all Ui2 10 speed group. Would it stay in 10 speed trimming mode?


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## freebird101

carbonLORD said:


> Wonder what happens if you just changed the 11sp front der from an all Ui2 10 speed group. Would it stay in 10 speed trimming mode?


Also interested in this, if I was to have a full ultegra kit with a 9070 FD, would there be any issues? Or do I need to have the FD and RD together


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## glepore

I want to use a 9070 RD with an otherwise complete Ultegra mini group-if I use the 6770 fd it will cleanly shift 10spd?


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## daponik

Bumping this thread since it wasn't answered a month ago. I, too, would love to upgrade my Ultegra Di2 rear derailleur to a Dura Ace Di2 RD. Can it be done? Would the 10-speed Dura Ace RD work?


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## asbjorjo

daponik said:


> Bumping this thread since it wasn't answered a month ago. I, too, would love to upgrade my Ultegra Di2 rear derailleur to a Dura Ace Di2 RD. Can it be done? Would the 10-speed Dura Ace RD work?


No, the 10-speed 7970 Di2 uses different wiring.


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## asbjorjo

I've checked with Shimano about switching between 10 and 11 speed for the 9070, and it's a no-go.

The reason you have to upgrade both front and rear derailleurs is that they somehow communicate in order to do the trimming. So a 10-speed FD will not trim correctly for a 11-speed RD, according to the Shimano peoples.


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## glepore

My original question was would the 9070 RD shift 10 speed cleanly. Having read a ton of threads on the topic, it appears that the answer is uncertain. The system apparently reads the shift spacing as 11, but some folks say that the difference is so small as to ignore it and just block out the 11th gear with the limit screw, while others successfully run 11 speed cassettes with one cog removed and a spacer. I'm still up in the air.


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## goodboyr

asbjorjo said:


> I've checked with Shimano about switching between 10 and 11 speed for the 9070, and it's a no-go.
> 
> The reason you have to upgrade both front and rear derailleurs is that they somehow communicate in order to do the trimming. So a 10-speed FD will not trim correctly for a 11-speed RD, according to the Shimano peoples.


Well...........there are multiple reports of success out there with a 6770 rd on a 9070 system. And as far as the trimming is concerned, I find it hard to believe its a big deal. Theres only a few discrete trimming positions and the chainline is the same. So, I think in typical shimano fashion, they say things are not compatible when in fact they are.


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## dpom

goodboyr said:


> Well...........there are multiple reports of success out there with a 6770 rd on a 9070 system. And as far as the trimming is concerned, I find it hard to believe its a big deal. Theres only a few discrete trimming positions and the chainline is the same. So, I think in typical shimano fashion, they say things are not compatible when in fact they are.


New question: If I am going from 6770 10spd to mix and match 11spd, would a 6870 rd and 6870 fd work instead of the 9070? I am looking for cheapest possible way to make this work out.


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## dkilburn

Good Questions.


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## goodboyr

Yup. Firmware update and the rd, chain and cassette is all you need. 6870 or 9070.


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## r1lee

dpom said:


> New question: If I am going from 6770 10spd to mix and match 11spd, would a 6870 rd and 6870 fd work instead of the 9070? I am looking for cheapest possible way to make this work out.


You don't even need the FD.


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