# Stiff Front Shifting on SL4 S-Works



## bernithebiker (Sep 26, 2011)

Hi - just wanted to pick other SL4 owners brains on this one.

This is of course, internal cabling.

Front shifting is pretty stiff. I takes quite a shove to get the chain up into the big ring. The derailleur itself is fine and smooth, I tested it by hand.

This stiffness has been there since day one, but I think my cabling is OK (Shifters are DA 7900).

The only culprit I can suspect is the cable guide on the BB. The cable is pretty tight on this guide and it's the only place I can imagine giving resistance. It is clean, and I have lubed it with a Teflon lube. But I suppose all bikes have something similar to this.

Rear shifting is fine.

On downshifting the front, there is quite a crack as tension is released.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Very difficult to give advice on the web. The crack you hear is likely due to adjustment. I hope you can follow this but...with each detent internal the shifter on the detent spool, the cable pulls a finite amount. If your B stop is adjusted too tight relative to your last cable pull onto the big ring, the derailleur becomes cocked like a gun. When you unload the cable it makes a crack. It is easily adjusted. You basically need to loosen the B screw such that the last cable pull doesn't press the derailleur so tightly against the screw position. But the last pull positon is also a function of how much tension you have in the cable with it unloaded against the A screw stop. There is way more to your issue of course but that is a start. The first thing you need to do is remove the cable from the derailleur. Pressing hard against the cable guide on the bottom of the BB is irrelevant really...but cable load will be greater based upon the afore mentioned. So disconnect the cable and then with shifter in one hand and cable in the other...shift the lever up and down and feel the friction or lack there of. If there is virtually no unusual friction as you pull the cable when you shift the lever toward the small ring, you know your issue lies with your cable tension starting point and last pull position relative to A and B screw positions. 
Hope that helps.
There is no short cuts to setting derailleurs properly...particularly the front derailleur with cage alignment and to preclude chain rattle when X-chaining. If I had a nickel for every front derailleur that was set up poorly leaving a bike shop after a so called tune up, I would be a much wealthier man.


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## Frankie13 (Feb 11, 2007)

I had the same issue on my Canyon and the problem came from the bottom bracket guide. I routed the cable through an liner in the bb area, and the shifting went back to perfect. Hope it helps!


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

FWIW a liner won't work on a SL4 as the front derailleur routing is almost a 90 deg bend up. The BB guide is very low friction. On a new SL4 if the installation is proper and the front derailleur adjusted properly, it will shift flawlessly with light effort as does my new Roubaix Pro...identical internal routing and BB guide to SL4.


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## bootsie_cat (Jan 7, 2005)

Check housing length going from shifter to downtube- does not need to be as long as most bikes.
Also- shifting is usually better on many modern handlebars if housing is run on back of bars as opposed to front.


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## ianho (May 20, 2011)

Cross the cables. Left shifter cable enters tru the right side of head tube n right shifter enters tru left side of head tube. That should help.


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## bernithebiker (Sep 26, 2011)

Thanks for all the replies. Roadworthy; I understand what you mean, but the shift lever is stiff through ALL of it's travel, not just when it starts to load up against the derailleur B screw.

My cable is about 'normal' length I think and is routed around the FRONT of the handlebar. The cables are crossed once in the downtube.

A friend just bought a cheap racing bike with Shimano 105. I tried his front shifter for comparison and it was super easy and light!!

I think I must have done something wrong with the cabling. I'm going to check it all over again now.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

bern,
Based upon what you just wrote, since you have the California cross cable routing, housing length is correct etc...and as stated, best routing from the shifters is in back of the handlebar...remove the cable from the derailleur and feel the cable pull with your left hand as you shift the lever with your right up and down. If you feel too much tension then you need to unwrap the bar tape to the shifter and back track. Invert the bike and take a pen light and direct it down the down tube to review the crossing of cables inside the downttube. Possible the cables aren't just crossed but wrapped around each other which will bind shifting.
It is pretty easy to root cause where your friction is coming from. Maybe from the in line cable adjusters if housings aren't pushed in properly...or lack of square housing cuts closing the ends against the cable. You need to pull the housings out and feel just the bare cable pull as you shifter the lever. May even be a bound up shifter. Check that your shifter clamp to the handlebar is not over torqued which can distort the plastic housing and bind shifting.
Good luck.


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## bernithebiker (Sep 26, 2011)

Thought some photos might help.

Photo 1 ; Here we see the cable leaving the shifter to the left. You have a choice of two routes. I suppose if I routed the cable round the back of the bar, I would use the other channel.

Photo 2 ; Front shifter cable enters frame on RHS.

Photo 3 ; Front shifter cable routed along front of handlebar.

Photo 4 ; Cable up to derailleur

Photo 5 ; BB guide

Photo 6 ; Gratutious bike shot....!


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## bernithebiker (Sep 26, 2011)

roadworthy said:


> bern,
> Based upon what you just wrote, since you have the California cross cable routing, housing length is correct etc...and as stated, best routing from the shifters is in back of the handlebar...remove the cable from the derailleur and feel the cable pull with your left hand as you shift the lever with your right up and down. If you feel too much tension then you need to unwrap the bar tape to the shifter and back track. Invert the bike and take a pen light and direct it down the down tube to review the crossing of cables inside the downttube. Possible the cables aren't just crossed but wrapped around each other which will bind shifting.
> It is pretty easy to root cause where your friction is coming from. Maybe from the in line cable adjusters if housings aren't pushed in properly...or lack of square housing cuts closing the ends against the cable. You need to pull the housings out and feel just the bare cable pull as you shifter the lever. May even be a bound up shifter. Check that your shifter clamp to the handlebar is not over torqued which can distort the plastic housing and bind shifting.
> Good luck.


Good tips, thankyou! Looking down the inspection hole between the bottle cage, I can see the two cables are not yet crossed, so they must cross quite close to the BB.

However, I think we can exclude a crossing problem as rear shifting is absolutely fine, very smooth.

You provide some good pointers, but I'm a bit reluctant to unwrap my new bar tape as I only just managed to get it right! But no choice I guess.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Sorry to say Bern, but you do NOT have a California Cross cable set up and likely the culprit to your shifting woes. You have same side of handlebar cable routing and hence tighter radii. Plus you have a racey set up with low bar which makes radii a bit tighter. I have posted my handlebar cable routing to show the distinct difference. Unfortunately, you will need a new derailleur cable set as cable housings and cables will not be long enough with the recommended revised routing. The reason why you don't see the cables cross inside the downtube...btw helped by removing the two piece cable guide...or at least one side of it...is because your cable don't cross inside. 
Will share a nuance. You can reuse your rear derailleur cable...just put it on the front. But you will need a new rear derailleur cable and some fresh housing because it won't be long enough. Shimano SP41 housing btw is excellent for all groupsets...you can buy it in length...then you will just need a single new rear derailleur cable.
Obtain the PDF for the California Cross from the Specialized website. Also, I created a thread called Demystifying hidden cable routing...worth a read if you didn't set your cables up...or have your bike shop do it if you have them do the work.
Good Luck.


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## bernithebiker (Sep 26, 2011)

Hmmmm, now I'm really confused! Because surely if the front shifter cable enters on the right and it's on the LHS of the BB guide, and if the rear shifter cable enters on the left and is on the RHS on the BB guide, then they must cross inside the downtube no?

I should point out that my brakes are UK/motorbike setup, i.e. left lever controls rear brake, right, the front.


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## bernithebiker (Sep 26, 2011)

OK coolio. Here we go;

Left shifter = front derailleur
Right shifter = rear derailleur.

All normal so far.

Left brake lever = rear brake
Right brake lever = front brake.

All UK bicycles are done like this, and if you think about it, it makes more sense, as it's the same as a motorbike. Anyway, I digress......

So my brake cables are opposite to yours, but this shouldn't (I don't think) impact on the shift cables.

Cheers!


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

bern we can easily sort this out.
But first you need to define something...if you deviate from std. convention in terms of which lever controls which.
Define what you want each lever to do.

For example, any road bike I have ever seen in the US is set up as follows:

*Right shifter/lever:*
Controls rear derailleur and rear brake

*Left shifter/lever: *Controls front derailleur and front brake.


This convention dates back 50 years.

Now if you have your levers set up different than this...define your set up and we will go from there.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

bernithebiker said:


> OK coolio. Here we go;
> 
> Left shifter = front derailleur
> Right shifter = rear derailleur.
> ...


OK...we will have some fun since you mentioned motorbikes and I am surmising you are from the UK. I grew up riding early Triumph Bonnevilles prior to the Asian aka Honda invasion which killed Triumph for a while. When they re-released the Bonneville with later technology like fuel injection, 4 valve per cylinder etc, I had to have one. I modified it pretty extensively and then sold it last year to a collector. So a big motorbike fan here and as it turns out an affinity for motorbikes on your side of the pond. OK..I too digressed. 
PS: Want to get a Thruxton next but maybe go Italian and get an Aprilia or Duc.

So...how to solve your riddle. Quite right...brake cables are irrelevant and you have established that your derailleurs are mounted traditionally to R & L levers respectively.
So...bottom line is...since by your pic you show that the right lever goes to the right hand or same side of the down tube...that means your left shifter or front derailleur shifter routes to the left side of the downtube. That means bern...the cables can NOT cross inside the downtube per your current orientation because the cable guide for the front derailleur is on the left side of the BB as you sit on the bike. So the cable routes on the left side of the BB and then pokes up through the frame to your front derailleur. By contrast the rear derailleur cable runs down the right side of the BB guide and thru the right chain stay. 

The reason your same side routing offers more resistance is two fold:
-Tighter radius bend into the down tube since entering the same side
- The cable doesn't pull straight thru the left hand downtube cable stop. The bare cable inside the downtube travels down the left side of the downtube and this path rubs the cable against the edge of the ICR cable stop on the left hand side of the downtube.

Result of the above is more friction.
As discussed, you need to pick up some more housing and new rear cable and redo your routing crossing the head tube like I show and cross the cables inside the downtube.
Let me know if that makes sense.


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## bernithebiker (Sep 26, 2011)

Nice bike! I used to have a Ducati 900SS, then VTR1000 then, 999, which I used at Brands Hatch (track day) but had to sell it 4 years ago.

I think confusion is coming from mixing up brake and gear cables as they look the same in the photos.
Just to confirm; the left hand shifter cable goes into RHS of the downtube.
the right hand shifter goes into the LHS of the downtube.
That;s why I think they MUST cross, right?


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## Frankie13 (Feb 11, 2007)

bernithebiker said:


> Thought some photos might help.
> 
> Photo 1 ; Here we see the cable leaving the shifter to the left. You have a choice of two routes. I suppose if I routed the cable round the back of the bar, I would use the other channel.
> 
> ...


Like you Racelite 2 handlebar, best handlebar IMO. Had one on my Canyon and loved it.


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## bernithebiker (Sep 26, 2011)

Yep, Syntace make some great stuff, stems are great too.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

bernithebiker said:


> Nice bike! I used to have a Ducati 900SS, then VTR1000 then, 999, which I used at Brands Hatch (track day) but had to sell it 4 years ago.
> 
> I think confusion is coming from mixing up brake and gear cables as they look the same in the photos.
> Just to confirm; the left hand shifter cable goes into RHS of the downtube.
> ...


Thanks. You've owned some nice motorcycles to be sure.

Yeah...the cables must cross but I look at both of your pictures and am pretty incredulous
what you say is true as it looks like both derailleur cables don't cross in front of the head tube. Would have to see more expansive pics to see that...but I believe you. 
Then you are routed correctly...they have to cross inside the downtube.
Invert your bike to confirm. Remove the cable from the derailleur and sting it down the guide so it is loose. Put a piece of tape and a pigtail on the end of it so it doesn't fall into the downtube. Wiggle it around to ensure it does cross properly would be a good first step. Shift the lever and pull on the cable to see if you feel any binding at the lever. If you do then you know your issue is in the housing that connects to the downtube or in the shifter itself.
Good luck Bern.


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## bernithebiker (Sep 26, 2011)

roadworthy said:


> Thanks. You've owned some nice motorcycles to be sure.
> 
> Yeah...the cables must cross but I look at both of your pictures and am pretty incredulous
> what you say is true as it looks like both derailleur cables don't cross in front of the head tube. Would have to see more expansive pics to see that...but I believe you.
> ...


I have to have to minor op on Thursday so no cycling for 3 weeks. 

It's a good chance to give the bike to my LBS to change the chainrings to compact (I have both and I'm off to the Alps in the Spring, and doing the Etape in July).

Whilst it's there I'll have them check out the front shifting.

I'll report back so that this thread might be useful for anyone else having the same problem.

Thanks again!


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

bernithebiker said:


> I have to have to minor op on Thursday so no cycling for 3 weeks.
> 
> It's a good chance to give the bike to my LBS to change the chainrings to compact (I have both and I'm off to the Alps in the Spring, and doing the Etape in July).
> 
> ...


Sounds good Bern. Good luck with your minor surgery and I hope you take lots of pics in the Alps...lots of good small cameras out now that will fit in a jersey...and come back and post your pics. Pretty exciting stuff.
Best Regards.


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

bernithebiker said:


> Thought some photos might help.
> 
> Photo 3 ; Front shifter cable routed along front of handlebar.
> 
> I have that same computer. Do you find it loose in its cradle? Any remedies?


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## JaPPster (Jun 3, 2011)

bernithebiker can u please write some words about the bike, how does it rides, feels, handles,..etc? i just assembled mine 2days ago, but i cant test it cuz its raining


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## bernithebiker (Sep 26, 2011)

It feels great, what can I say. Rides very nicely. I think the best compliment is that I can't think of any criticism.
It feels taut, light and snappy, and handling feels great, but the real test will be Alpine descents in June.
I think it's a very stiff frame, but I have no comfort problems at all. People say you need to be a pro to feel the difference, but I think any rider can flex a frame a little if braking hard, stomping on the pedals, etc. I'm light and don't make loads of power, but I can feel the frame is stiff and responds well to input.
Oh and I think it looks sweet too!


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