# Can you believe it!!!



## g29er (Mar 28, 2009)

What a prologue by Armstrong. I was not expecting that.


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## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

No kidding. Strong. Fingerbang lost to Armstrong.


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## tommyrhodes (Aug 19, 2009)

Wow. If today was any indication then this is going to be a great race. I could not even sit down after LA left the start house. Great performance by LA and AC though.  I'm giddy.


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

Bang, take that fingerbang.


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

I'm even more impressed by Tyler's ride.


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## tober1 (Feb 6, 2009)

So fun to watch. Cancellara is a beast.


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## Swish (Jul 31, 2004)

It looks like it's gonna be interesting this year, the Schlecks did disappoint.

Loved Cance's win, bike screened and all!


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

LA looked like his head was totally in it--and he didn't look slightly uncomfortable on the bike like last year.

Should be a good Tour.

Missed Tyler's ride, but that's the future.

About FC--how do you take 10 seconds out of the best ride of the day, on someone who did little else but prepare to win the prologue?


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## cool tech (Jul 12, 2008)

jd3 said:


> I'm even more impressed by Tyler's ride.


+1 Great ride Tyler!!!!


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

I kinda figured LA would top AC today, but I thought Martin would take it.


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## Keski (Sep 25, 2004)

Lance always rides well when he is angry about something......


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## troutmd (Sep 7, 2007)

Givers me hope that at 62 I can break 50 minute in a 20K TT.


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

Lance did amazing.. AC was a bit off but he's likely rather nervous. The main guys really showed us they're ready.. minus the schlecks.


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

That was a pretty exciting last 15 minutes or so. Excellent start to the Tour!


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## Red Sox Junkie (Sep 15, 2005)

LA did look good, but it's waaayyyyyy too early to get too excited. I do think it shows that LA means business. But obviously, the real test will be the mountains.


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## firstrax (Nov 13, 2001)

Levi looks good. He's tough to read though.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Tony Martin- when does HTC start to build around him (especially for GTs with more than one real TT).


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Keski said:


> Lance always rides well when he is angry about something......


-
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## scarecrow (Oct 7, 2007)

I was surprised how well Radioshack did overall. Jani, LA, Levi and Kloden are all right there. I bet they are real aggressive in the crosswinds tomorrow. The shack has a lot of horsepower that is on form to really string it out in the next couple of days. Sky and Saxo need time so they might try to split it as well. Throw in the belgium teams racing near home and you have the makings for some brutal stages.


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## mangotreat0808 (Sep 4, 2006)

Yupp 'old man' Lance wupp'd some today..kids must b get'n nervz.


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

Coolhand said:


> Tony Martin- when does HTC start to build around him (especially for GTs with more than one real TT).


When they stop focusing on # of wins so they can be "the #1 team in the world"


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

Hit 'em early and hit 'em hard! 
The Shack's best tactic will be to shake things up and get some time in these first few days. This is a good idea and could, just possibly, shake AC's self-belief. If they play a waiting game, they'll likely be chewed up in the Mountains. If they have some significant time in hand when things get steep, then they have a chance to get one of their riders onto the podium.


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## teoteoteo (Sep 8, 2002)

Strong ride by LA for sure, the tests will come later, this was more of a quiz. One thing I did catch that I also caught last month was Alberto not being very settled in the saddle. At one point in the middle of the prologue they were going back and forth between LA/AC on moto camera shots and LA was settled in the saddle. AC was shifting a bit. I know they put him on a smaller bike a while back and I noticed it then. I'd have to look at him historically but I can't picture fighting to find the right spot on the saddle was helping him.


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## Kaleo (Jun 15, 2008)

Radioshack with four men in to twenty, not too bad... Andy Schleck?... 1:09 back on the first day, he's already got dig himself out of a hole. I think his late June training crash was worst than he thought. Even Basso and Sastre now has work to do, Cadel :39 off. If this is a snap shot of things to come... It's a good thing for AC that there's no TTT this year or RS would really put the hurt on Astana.


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

Andy Schleck's time is nothing to be stunned about. He's not good in TT's, period. Ditto with Basso. In fact, if they did any better there would be accusations going on. Sastre comes to the race with serious back pain and really shouldn't be riding this tour but is doing so anyways.

The only really who got potentially in a hole so far is Menchov, performing worse than Gesink, who really should've been a top 20 finisher today.


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## JimT (Jul 18, 2007)

I am glad LA did well, just hope he can maintain this level for the entire race.... I jumped out of my seat when when they said Contador was behind when he reached the first checkpoint.


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## LS2379 (Nov 6, 2009)

teoteoteo said:


> Strong ride by LA for sure, the tests will come later, this was more of a quiz. One thing I did catch that I also caught last month was Alberto not being very settled in the saddle. At one point in the middle of the prologue they were going back and forth between LA/AC on moto camera shots and LA was settled in the saddle. AC was shifting a bit. I know they put him on a smaller bike a while back and I noticed it then. I'd have to look at him historically but I can't picture fighting to find the right spot on the saddle was helping him.


I noticed that also, it looked like he kept trying to push himself back on the saddle then would slip forward again. I was thinking bad fit, but one would think that they would have taken a lot of time to make sure he was comfortable on the bike.


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## Kaleo (Jun 15, 2008)

moabbiker said:


> Andy Schleck's time is nothing to be stunned about. He's not good in TT's, period.


Yea, I guess being the Luxembourg National Time Trial Champion, doesn't mean very much... unless he's racing his brother, who had a better time today...


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## muscleendurance (Jan 11, 2009)

g29er said:


> Can you believe it!!!


In a word, yes. It wasnt news to me.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

moabbiker said:


> Andy Schleck's time is nothing to be stunned about. He's not good in TT's, period.


But losing over a minute in 10K  
Not good is an understatement....


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## petalpower (Aug 10, 2009)

Excellent prologue. I'm ecstatic to see Lance do well.

Once they got the bugs worked out, the Versus Tour Tracker was great, and will come in handy over the next few weeks when either I don't want to get up at 4am or miss a ride in the afternoon to watch a stage.


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## HeluvaSkier (Sep 11, 2007)

The real show of who will take home the yellow jersey will be in the mountains, where minutes, not seconds will likely separate the big contenders. I'm hoping we are in for a good tour based on today's results though.


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## Kaleo (Jun 15, 2008)

I think we'll see some fireworks before the mountains... watch tomorrow and Stage 3...


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

It looks like Wiggo was the biggest loser....
That's a lot of time he needs to make up against the most of his rivals in the mountains.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

It's a long race. You can't win the tour on day 1, but you sure can dig a hole. 

All LA did today was not lose it. 

Now as to some others. ..........

Len


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Kaleo said:


> Yea, I guess being the Luxembourg National Time Trial Champion, doesn't mean very much... unless he's racing his brother, who had a better time today...


Check the results of that race. There were only four people who entered. Being 1 of 4 isn't really saying much is it? He wins the TT and lets his brother win the RR.


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## colombo357 (Jun 19, 2010)

AC got b**ch slapped fair and square. 

What's next in LA's bag of tricks? 

Only time will tell, but I think there's plenty more where that came from.


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

I was pretty impessed with the rides of LA and Tyler Farrar. Maybe it was because I wasn't really expecting a whole lot in the TT from either of them. It should be interesting to see what happens in the coming weeks and once the Tour hits the mountains.


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## JimT (Jul 18, 2007)

colombo357 said:


> AC got b**ch slapped fair and square.
> 
> What's next in LA's bag of tricks?
> 
> Only time will tell, but I think there's plenty more where that came from.



Thats a good one... I hope he does it throughout the tour....


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

colombo357 said:


> AC got b**ch slapped fair and square.


Since when does 5 seconds = "b**ch slap"?

It's a long race


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## cydswipe (Mar 7, 2002)

It was nice. I think Contador has a lot left in the bag though. Lance gave a lot for that outcome. We'll see once the mountains start as to Contador and Lance's true form. I really would have liked to see a TTT this year. RadioShack would be a blast to watch.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

I think what we saw was a combination of good fortune, guts and strategy:

Good fortune - choosing to go later in the day worked to the advantage of LA, AC and FC as the course was starting to dry a bit.
Guts - In recent TT's in the wet, LA has admitted to holding back, with this likely being his last TdF, I don't think he's holding much back now.
Strategy - The build-up to this has been LA and JB downplaying expectations... "We don't have to win"... "AC as the five-star favorite, vs. everyone else as two-star favorites"... I think they have succeeded in putting some real pressure on AC. He seemed to ride today as someone trying not to lose, rather than someone trying to win.

We'll see what happens down the road.


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

colombo357 said:


> AC got b**ch slapped fair and square.
> 
> What's next in LA's bag of tricks?
> 
> Only time will tell, but I think there's plenty more where that came from.


I doubt that really constitutes a slap in the face. Now, if AC were 6th and LA won the prologue and was in Yellow then that would be a slap in the face --- for the time being. It's a long race and there's a lot to come between now and Paris.


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## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

godot said:


> Since when does 5 seconds = "b**ch slap"?
> 
> It's a long race


The winner will have the least accumulated time. 1 second can be a total b**ch slap.


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## The Cowboy Tiger (Jul 26, 2009)

Opus51569 said:


> I think what we saw was a combination of good fortune, guts and strategy:
> 
> Good fortune - choosing to go later in the day worked to the advantage of LA, AC and FC as the course was starting to dry a bit.
> Guts - In recent TT's in the wet, LA has admitted to holding back, with this likely being his last TdF, I don't think he's holding much back now.
> ...


I like your take. Part of me thought that he soft-pedaled in Switzerland. He looked different on the bike today than he did last year. I know that a lot of people have done photo analysis of his physique, but he looks thinner in the upper body. In 2009 I thought, "Wow. He looks big in the upper body." He looked slim today and was riding with his old cadence. It's night and day. He still doesn't have the punch in the mountains and never will again. Even in 2005 I remember thinking that he didn't have the same kick. Of course it didn't matter then b/c he was a murder-death-killer in the ITTs. After the first time check today I thought, "Uh oh. He's found his old form."

Versus pimps the Epic Cycle. I think this year might rival '03 if Lance is in good form throughout.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

But think about how many slaps AC can give LA in the mountains, it could be more than in a Bud Spencer movie!


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Reading through this thread I am disappointed. Where is all the Lance bashing of last year? Gee, I had a lot of fun back then countering all the ridiculous negativity. Where's Erkl? I had the most fun with him. Those were the days...

I for one enjoyed watching him ride today, as always. An absolute pleasure to watch; art on the bike, a devilish tactician. And, he's an @ss. Perhaps even a liar and a cheat and really does have the heads of those he thinks crossed him on a platter. 

The reason so many hate him is that he is better at it than they are. 

Now, Farrar...that'll be my fun this year. A "good guy".

Enjoy the Tour everyone. Should be very interesting.


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

ghost6 said:


> The winner will have the least accumulated time. 1 second can be a total b**ch slap.


Hope springs eternal I guess

10 minutes into a race where the winning time last year was 85+ hours and 5 seconds constitutes a b**ch slap? No mtn stages, where the real gaps form. No long TT's, where smaller gaps can be made up. Not even cobbles, or crazy crosswinds to split the field.

So using your logic the stage last year where LA made the split caused by the crosswinds constituted a b**ch slap. How'd that work out for him when it came down to GC?

Great ride by LA. I didn't expect it, he's not shown much form in the TT since he came back.

It's a long race


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Now, Farrar...that'll be my fun this year. A "good guy".
> 
> Enjoy the Tour everyone. Should be very interesting.


Farrar killed it today. Just awesome. Hope the sprints come down to "good" vs "evil" - TF vs Cav. It could work out to be a mini LA vs AC kinda thing. I kinda hope that McEwen still has something in the tank, he used to be fun to watch as a guy that didn't need a lead out train.


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## thesmokingman (Dec 27, 2008)

Dan Gerous said:


> But think about how many slaps AC can give LA in the mountains, it could be more than in a Bud Spencer movie!


His team's gotta keep him up close to the finals of them mountains to give that slap back. I guess what I'm saying is its not hard to be a hard man when you've got a Disco team behind you. Oh and he better remember to not get caught out in the winds tomorrow... I dunno. This tour will be good test between individual or team.


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## tone12 (Feb 4, 2007)

LS2379 said:


> I noticed that also, it looked like he kept trying to push himself back on the saddle then would slip forward again. I was thinking bad fit, but one would think that they would have taken a lot of time to make sure he was comfortable on the bike.



I've noticed the movement in the saddle at other races as well. I wonder if AC feels it keeps his legs fresher. Few pedal strokes forward, few neutral, few on the back. Repeat.


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## CdaleNut (Aug 2, 2009)

i think the real question should be.......how could is lance's team against conti's team......im a huge lance fan but i think conti is a stronger rider overall BUT when lance is mad watch out and also i think Lance has a better team behind him to push him thru so overall i think team radio shack will be keeping conti at bay.

This is Lance's farewell tour.................Lets all enjoy it while it last.


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## The Cowboy Tiger (Jul 26, 2009)

CdaleNut said:


> i think the real question should be.......how could is lance's team against conti's team......im a huge lance fan but i think conti is a stronger rider overall BUT when lance is mad watch out and also i think Lance has a better team behind him to push him thru so overall i think team radio shack will be keeping conti at bay.
> 
> This is Lance's farewell tour.................Lets all enjoy it while it last.


Lance's team is stronger for sure, but as he's said in the past the strongest man always wins.


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## thesmokingman (Dec 27, 2008)

The Cowboy Tiger said:


> Lance's team is stronger for sure, but as he's said in the past the strongest man always wins.


That's easy to say when you've got Lance's team behind you.


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## The Cowboy Tiger (Jul 26, 2009)

thesmokingman said:


> That's easy to say when you've got Lance's team behind you.


fo sho


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

I'm thinking Alberto's strategy in the mountains, mountain tops at least, wont require much of a team. He will stay with the other favorites, either someone will attack first, Contador will counter but not slow down and ride away from the others. Or he will attack first and wont be seen again... Unless he's not at the top of his game, or if others really improved a lot.

Although I really don't like Lance (if people hadn't noticed), I like that he's up there and seems better than last year. A Tour with people fighting for second is pretty boring and having a few top contenders close to each other and realistically able to fight for the win makes for a better race for us. We'll see in the next weeks, I hope it's as entertaining as the Giro was...


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

conti has not looked comfortable on the tt rig all year. I remeber seeing him, I think during Paris nice or the only other race he and la were in together, slamming himself back on his saddle every 5-8 revolutions. I forgot to watch for that today(been a loooooong day). I remeber thinking before, "once he gets dialed in, he will blow even Fabian away."

I will say I was surprised la finished that high. he seems to know every second counts. especially this go around. 

He also loomed more relaxed granted, we see more of him before and during warm ups, but he looked pretty relaxed. Must be his new entourage member



teoteoteo said:


> Strong ride by LA for sure, the tests will come later, this was more of a quiz. One thing I did catch that I also caught last month was Alberto not being very settled in the saddle. At one point in the middle of the prologue they were going back and forth between LA/AC on moto camera shots and LA was settled in the saddle. AC was shifting a bit. I know they put him on a smaller bike a while back and I noticed it then. I'd have to look at him historically but I can't picture fighting to find the right spot on the saddle was helping him.


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## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

Dan Gerous said:


> But think about how many slaps AC can give LA in the mountains, it could be more than in a Bud Spencer movie!


Think about the fact that Contador will have to win 8 TdF's in a row in order to truly "beat" Lance.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

weltyed said:


> conti has not looked comfortable on the tt rig all year. I remeber seeing him, I think during Paris nice or the only other race he and la were in together, slamming himself back on his saddle every 5-8 revolutions. I forgot to watch for that today(been a loooooong day). I remeber thinking before, "once he gets dialed in, he will blow even Fabian away."


That ugly fingerbang logo on the saddle is slippery!


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## HeluvaSkier (Sep 11, 2007)

godot said:


> Farrar killed it today. Just awesome.


I hope he didn't over-do it today costing him stage wins later on. Cav was clearly taking it easy in anticipation of going for the stage win tomorrow and going forward. It was certainly an impressive performance by Tyler though.


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

ghost6 said:


> Think about the fact that Contador will have to win 8 TdF's in a row in order to truly "beat" Lance.


Who was on the top step last year? That doesn't count as a win?


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## The Cowboy Tiger (Jul 26, 2009)

Dan Gerous said:


> I'm thinking Alberto's strategy in the mountains, mountain tops at least, wont require much of a team. He will stay with the other favorites, either someone will attack first, Contador will counter but not slow down and ride away from the others. Or he will attack first and wont be seen again... Unless he's not at the top of his game, or if others really improved a lot.
> 
> Although I really don't like Lance (if people hadn't noticed), I like that he's up there and seems better than last year. A Tour with people fighting for second is pretty boring and having a few top contenders close to each other and realistically able to fight for the win makes for a better race for us. We'll see in the next weeks, I hope it's as entertaining as the Giro was...


definitely. even last year Conti shadowed Lance most of the race. I expect more of the same this year. It's nice having a big kick. It's hard to ride it out of a guy.


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## Kaleo (Jun 15, 2008)

Everyone is going to try to put the screws into AC on Stage 3 and stretch him out... gonna be a fun tour...


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

ghost6 said:


> The winner will have the least accumulated time. 1 second can be a total b**ch slap.


I am sure Contador is crying himself to sleep tonight.


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## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

godot said:


> Who was on the top step last year? That doesn't count as a win?


Yea, it counts. That's one race down. 7 to go. Hence, 8 in a row.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

ghost6 said:


> Yea, it counts. That's one race down. 7 to go. Hence, 8 in a row.


Armstrong has never beaten Contador in a grand tour, while Contador soundly beat Armstrong last year. Contador has won all three of the grand tours. So Contador has already done things that Armstrong has not.


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## lemonlime (Sep 24, 2003)

Coolhand said:


> Tony Martin- when does HTC start to build around him (especially for GTs with more than one real TT).


When Cavendish moves on?


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

ghost6 said:


> Yea, it counts. That's one race down. 7 to go. Hence, 8 in a row.


I'll break this down so it's easy for you. LA and AC both raced the Tour last year. AC won. As such, AC has "truly" beaten LA.

If AC goes on to win this year and the next 6, you'd probably be saying "yeah, but he only beat LA twice so it doesn't count"

Are you so insecure in your LA fandom that you have to set historic, unachievable goals for anyone that races against him to be considered a champion?


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## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

pretender said:


> Armstrong has never beaten Contador in a grand tour, while Contador soundly beat Armstrong last year. Contador has won all three of the grand tours. So Contador has already done things that Armstrong has not.


So winning the three grand tours compares to winning the TdF 7 times in a row? Hmmm. How many riders have won TdF 7 times consecutively? How many have won Giro and Vuelta one time like Fingerbang? Is Fingerbang the only guy to win TdF twice but non-consecutively?


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

ghost6 said:


> So winning the three grand tours compares to winning the TdF 7 times in a row? Hmmm. How many riders have won TdF 7 times consecutively? How many have won Giro and Vuelta one time like Fingerbang? Is Fingerbang the only guy to win TdF twice but non-consecutively?


Only five cyclists in history have won all three grand tours. Contador is one of them. Armstrong is not. And remember, Contador is young. Armstrong is not.


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## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

godot said:


> I'll break this down so it's easy for you. LA and AC both raced the Tour last year. AC won. As such, AC has "truly" beaten LA.
> 
> If AC goes on to win this year and the next 6, you'd probably be saying "yeah, but he only beat LA twice so it doesn't count"
> 
> Are you so insecure in your LA fandom that you have to set historic, unachievable goals for anyone that races against him to be considered a champion?


I see it's easy for you to overlook LA's record holding title. If Contador wanted to claim to be "better" than LA, he'd need to beat LA's record. Would he not? There's nothing dodgy about this point. LA holds an historic title, period. The "better" cyclist will break that title. Like I said before, Fingerbang will need to win the TdF EIGHT TIMES in a row to "beat" LA's record. Would he not? Call Contador whatever you want. Until he beats Armstrong's record, he has not ultimately "beat" LA. That must really send you through the roof. Cheers, Fingerbang fan.


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## mendo (Apr 18, 2007)

It's a small but significant psychological victory. That's about it.


More and more, I feel like Tony Martin's the future. He had 12 seconds on Armstrong, 17 on Contador, 18 on Levi.


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## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

pretender said:


> Only five cyclists in history have won all three grand tours. Contador is one of them. Armstrong is not. And remember, Contador is young. Armstrong is not.


Only one cyclist in history has won the TdF 7 times in a row. His name is Lance Armstrong. And remember, Contador needs to win this TdF and 6 more in a row to beat Lance's record. Good luck.


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## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

55x11 said:


> I am sure Contador is crying himself to sleep tonight.


Who knows, but my post had nothing to do with Contador.


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## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

godot said:


> Hope springs eternal I guess
> 
> 10 minutes into a race where the winning time last year was 85+ hours and 5 seconds constitutes a b**ch slap? No mtn stages, where the real gaps form. No long TT's, where smaller gaps can be made up. Not even cobbles, or crazy crosswinds to split the field.
> 
> ...


I think you're confusing me with the OP about "b**ch slap." I said one second "can" be a slap if it decides the winner. My point was that the winner can win by mere seconds, in which case such seconds would be a slap. Applying this point to a moment in a stage doesn't translate.


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## thesmokingman (Dec 27, 2008)

ghost6 said:


> I think you're confusing me with the OP about "b**ch slap." I said one second "can" be a slap if it decides the winner. My point was that the winner can win by mere seconds, in which case such seconds would be a slap. Applying this point to a moment in a stage doesn't translate.


You know... last years tour might have been very different had that TTT ended with LA in yellow. What a difference a few hundredths of a second could have made? That my friend could have been one hell of a slap.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

ghost6 said:


> Only one cyclist in history has won the TdF 7 times in a row. His name is Lance Armstrong. And remember, Contador needs to win this TdF and 6 more in a row to beat Lance's record. Good luck.


Armstrong has done something that Contador hasn't yet done. And Contador has done something that Armstrong won't ever do.


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## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

thesmokingman said:


> You know... last years tour might have been very different had that TTT ended with LA in yellow. What a difference a few hundredths of a second could have made? That my friend could have been one hell of a slap.


True!


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## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

pretender said:


> Armstrong has done something that Contador hasn't yet done. And Contador has done something that Armstrong won't ever do.


LOL. This is good. Well, let's see if Contador wins this TdF plus the next 6. You think that'll happen?


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

ghost6 said:


> LOL. This is good. Well, let's see if Contador wins this TdF plus the next 6. You think that'll happen?


It's irrelevant. Armstrong will go to his grave never having won a Giro nor a Vuelta. No big deal, it's a career choice that he made.


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## thesmokingman (Dec 27, 2008)

pretender said:


> It's irrelevant. Armstrong will go to his grave never having won a Giro nor a Vuelta. No big deal, it's a career choice that he made.


You're making a stink about nothing...


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## colombo357 (Jun 19, 2010)

godot said:


> Since when does 5 seconds = "b**ch slap"?
> 
> It's a long race


Yes, that's why it's a b*tch slap, not a knockout punch, smart guy.


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## colombo357 (Jun 19, 2010)

waldo425 said:


> I doubt that really constitutes a slap in the face. Now, if AC were 6th and LA won the prologue and was in Yellow then that would be a slap in the face --- for the time being. It's a long race and there's a lot to come between now and Paris.


Read post directly above.


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## colombo357 (Jun 19, 2010)

Dan Gerous said:


> But think about how many slaps AC can give LA in the mountains, it could be more than in a Bud Spencer movie!


AC was supposed to cream LA in the prologue but lost. Any prior assumptions on LA's abilities are questionable.

LA knows his power output and thinks he can win. I think he knows what he's doing and AC will be in for a surprise. Mind games work.


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## colombo357 (Jun 19, 2010)

thesmokingman said:


> You know... last years tour might have been very different had that TTT ended with LA in yellow. What a difference a few hundredths of a second could have made? That my friend could have been one hell of a slap.


Interesting thing is that LA was the 5th rider across the line. Had his cadence up to the line increased by 2 RPM, he may have won the tour.


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## colombo357 (Jun 19, 2010)

55x11 said:


> I am sure Contador is crying himself to sleep tonight.


5 seconds, no big deal, but AC must've had a WTF moment when he looked down the leaderboard and saw LA in front of him.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

ghost6 said:


> I see it's easy for you to overlook LA's record holding title. If Contador wanted to claim to be "better" than LA, he'd need to beat LA's record. Would he not? There's nothing dodgy about this point. LA holds an historic title, period. The "better" cyclist will break that title. Like I said before, Fingerbang will need to win the TdF EIGHT TIMES in a row to "beat" LA's record. Would he not? Call Contador whatever you want. Until he beats Armstrong's record, he has not ultimately "beat" LA. That must really send you through the roof. Cheers, Fingerbang fan.


Last time I checked, this sport is Cycling not Tour de Francing. LA has his record of 7 in a row. But he hasn't deigned to ride the majority of major races that make up the calendar. If he has started, then it was as training not with the aim of winning. During his run - No MSR, no RVV, no Giro, no Lombardia, no PN.....etc. That's like the Man Utd sitting around all season and turning up at Wembley for the FA Cup. LA could have won 10 TdF in a row, yet he would still be inferior to Merckx, Coppi, Anquetil & Hinault.
At 27 Contador already has 4 GT wins, yet LA had only won one. I reckon that by his 28th birthday Contador will have his 5th GT. As Pretender said, "It's irrelevant. Armstrong will go to his grave never having won a Giro nor a Vuelta. No big deal, it's a career choice that he made"


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

teoteoteo said:


> Strong ride by LA for sure, the tests will come later, this was more of a quiz. One thing I did catch that I also caught last month was Alberto not being very settled in the saddle. At one point in the middle of the prologue they were going back and forth between LA/AC on moto camera shots and LA was settled in the saddle. AC was shifting a bit. I know they put him on a smaller bike a while back and I noticed it then. I'd have to look at him historically but I can't picture fighting to find the right spot on the saddle was helping him.


He did it a lot (last year?) when he won the TT. Kept shifting back on his saddle. I think it may just be how he rides. Can't say for sure though as I am not him.


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## T-Doc (Apr 4, 2002)

"After the race, they scanned my bike, and I said to them, ‘You better scan me, because I am the motor,' "
-prologue winner Fabian Cancellara.


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## neilg1 (Sep 23, 2009)

After only one day of coverage I'm already concerned that Sherwen will have to have his head surgically removed from Lance's ass.
Could be a long tour.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

I'm loving Sparrticus's sarcastic attitude with the motorized accusations. 

Go buddy go.


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## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

Great Prologue. Absolutely didnt expect AC to lose to LA especially after how AC beat Cancelara last year in the TT. Lance rode great. But Im wondering if AC really did give it a go or just decided to dial it back just a tad considering the conditions. He has the ability to easily make that gaps up in the mountains. Cant make too much from the Porlogue folks. 

Im a fan of both of these overhyped men but my heart is with LA as this is his swan song and he is my age. weep weep:cryin: Ill just hope for a crash free, healthy race for both men. It would be funny if neither of them won the TDF lol. There are other strong contenders so Im gonna try to be a cycling fan period this year. Well for as long as I can avoid being sucked in to the AC/LA hype . May the best team produce the best man that wins. Afterall it is largely a team sport until the end.


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## Haridic (Jun 9, 2008)

Haha, that's an incredible ride. Cancellara ripping 10 seconds into what was an already insane time from Tony Martin. 
Seems like an electric motor would be more of a hindrance than a help to Cancellara, it wouldnt be able to keep up


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## ggusta (Dec 31, 2004)

ghost6 said:


> No kidding. Strong. Fingerbang lost to Armstrong.


Yes, great job on a pancake flat rode for the uniballer. Too bad he can only suck wheels on the hills noawadays.


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## Circlip (Jul 26, 2005)

+1 on all below.



ultimobici said:


> Last time I checked, this sport is Cycling not Tour de Francing. LA has his record of 7 in a row. But he hasn't deigned to ride the majority of major races that make up the calendar. If he has started, then it was as training not with the aim of winning. During his run - No MSR, no RVV, no Giro, no Lombardia, no PN.....etc. That's like the Man Utd sitting around all season and turning up at Wembley for the FA Cup. LA could have won 10 TdF in a row, yet he would still be inferior to Merckx, Coppi, Anquetil & Hinault.
> At 27 Contador already has 4 GT wins, yet LA had only won one. I reckon that by his 28th birthday Contador will have his 5th GT. As Pretender said, "It's irrelevant. Armstrong will go to his grave never having won a Giro nor a Vuelta. No big deal, it's a career choice that he made"


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## neilg1 (Sep 23, 2009)

^^^Very well put.


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## cruso414 (Feb 20, 2004)

Dan Gerous said:


> But think about how many slaps AC can give LA in the mountains, it could be more than in a Bud Spencer movie!


not only will AC be fighting all of the peleton (he has no allies), he will have to contend with Vino trying to steal some glory for himself......mark my words, he does it every time. Good luck with that Mr. Fingerbang.:thumbsup:


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## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

CdaleNut said:


> i think the real question should be.......how could is lance's team against conti's team......im a huge lance fan but i think conti is a stronger rider overall BUT when lance is mad watch out and also i think Lance has a better team behind him to push him thru so overall i think team radio shack will be keeping conti at bay.
> 
> This is Lance's farewell tour.................Lets all enjoy it while it last.


His second farewell Tour...


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## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

colombo357 said:


> AC was supposed to cream LA in the prologue but lost. Any prior assumptions on LA's abilities are questionable.
> 
> LA knows his power output and thinks he can win. I think he knows what he's doing and AC will be in for a surprise. Mind games work.


LA thought he could win last year. Since when is a 10k prologue a predictor for yellow in Paris? Lots of hate here....


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## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

ghost6 said:


> I see it's easy for you to overlook LA's record holding title. If Contador wanted to claim to be "better" than LA, he'd need to beat LA's record. Would he not? There's nothing dodgy about this point. LA holds an historic title, period. The "better" cyclist will break that title. Like I said before, Fingerbang will need to win the TdF EIGHT TIMES in a row to "beat" LA's record. Would he not? Call Contador whatever you want. Until he beats Armstrong's record, he has not ultimately "beat" LA. That must really send you through the roof. Cheers, Fingerbang fan.


So by this logic, you contend Armstrong is the best cyclist to ever live? Merckx, Indurain, Hinault, Anquetil, Coppi? None of them are on par or better than Armstrong?

You may want to check the videos in this thread: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=203995


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## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

nate said:


> So by this logic, you contend Armstrong is the best cyclist to ever live? Merckx, Indurain, Hinault, Anquetil, Coppi? None of them are on par or better than Armstrong?
> 
> You may want to check the videos in this thread: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=203995


I never stated anything about LA being the "best cyclist ever." I pointed out that LA has won the TdF more than anyone else. That statement does not mean that LA is the best cyclist ever. Also, I've only discussed LA and Contador. This has nothing to do with other cyclists.


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

not worth it


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## avbug (Oct 17, 2007)

Trying to predict who will be stronger this year (between LA and AC) based on last year's tour is silly. AC and LA were on the same team last year and there was (or at least seemed to be) confusion at one point about who Astana's team leader was and who the remaining team riders were supporting, so there was definitely some internal friction within the team. This year they have been separated and don't have the distraction of battling each other for team leader status, and they can now each actually focus on having an entire team behind them as the probable respective team leaders. Probably.


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## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

ultimobici said:


> Last time I checked, this sport is Cycling not Tour de Francing. LA has his record of 7 in a row. But he hasn't deigned to ride the majority of major races that make up the calendar. If he has started, then it was as training not with the aim of winning. During his run - No MSR, no RVV, no Giro, no Lombardia, no PN.....etc. That's like the Man Utd sitting around all season and turning up at Wembley for the FA Cup. LA could have won 10 TdF in a row, yet he would still be inferior to Merckx, Coppi, Anquetil & Hinault.
> At 27 Contador already has 4 GT wins, yet LA had only won one. I reckon that by his 28th birthday Contador will have his 5th GT. As Pretender said, "It's irrelevant. Armstrong will go to his grave never having won a Giro nor a Vuelta. No big deal, it's a career choice that he made"


I see your point. But I'm not willing to minimize the unparalleled significance of the TdF in order to argue that Contador's career is more impressive than LA's. As of now, Contador's career isn't more impressive if you ask me. It may be one day, however.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

ghost6 said:


> I see your point. But I'm not willing to minimize the* unparalleled significance of the TdF* in order to argue that Contador's career is more impressive than LA's. As of now, Contador's career isn't more impressive if you ask me. It may be one day, however.


To be considered the best cyclist ever you have at least :

* win the 3 Grand Tours 
* win world championships
* win the 5 monuments 

the more times you win them, the best. in a secondary plane the closer you get to complete all those the better.

the TDF is only one of the events considered.


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## Circlip (Jul 26, 2005)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Reading through this thread I am disappointed. Where is all the Lance bashing of last year?


A: Posting on other forums.


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## Circlip (Jul 26, 2005)

ghost6 said:


> I see your point. But I'm not willing to minimize the unparalleled significance of the TdF in order to argue that Contador's career is more impressive than LA's. As of now, Contador's career isn't more impressive if you ask me. It may be one day, however.


You win the daily Captain Obvious Award of Distinction, hands down.


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## Circlip (Jul 26, 2005)

cruso414 said:


> Vino trying to steal some glory for himself......mark my words, he does it every time


"Every time" seems to imply multiple occurrences. Are you able to cite these multiple instances? (I doubt it) Even the one example you are likely to cite as historical friction with other riders on his team perhaps isn't as clear cut as you think it is.


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## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

Salsa_Lover said:


> To be considered the best cyclist ever you have at least :
> 
> * win the 3 Grand Tours
> * win world championships
> ...


Ok, I changed my mind. Thanks. But the TdF offers the most points according to UCI. So the 3 GT's aren't necessarily equal, so it seems.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

Circlip said:


> "Every time" seems to imply multiple occurrences. Are you able to cite these multiple instances? (I doubt it) Even the one example you are likely to cite as historical friction with other riders on his team perhaps isn't as clear cut as you think it is.


Everyone remembers Vino chasing down his own teammates while at Telekom, but the reality is that it was Vino who was being chased down by Klodi and Ullrich. At least that's how I remember it. Somehow so many people remember it the other way around.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

ghost6 said:


> Ok, I changed my mind. Thanks. But the TdF offers the most points according to UCI. So the 3 GT's aren't necessarily equal, so it seems.


The TDF is indeed a very important event, well placed at the center of the cycling calendar, during the full summer and in France with beautiful landscapes.

That is why attracts the most atention by the media.

But the rest of the Cycling Calendar is bigger than the TDF for sure, and this is what I think was wrong with the LA approach.

Sure, he focused on the event with most media circus and doing so, he made good coin with it. I appreciate the fact he raised awareness about cycling in america and then so many american companies are investing in making the sport better.

His record of 7 TDFs is without a doubt excellent, but his dismisal of the whole rest of the cycling calendar disqualifies him as "the best ever" as you want him to be.

Traditionally il Giro has been the "hardmen" GT, much more difficult and epic in many ways than the TDF. 

The "monuments" require real cojones to race them and to win them, races in which the riders had to give it all 100% to get it or lose it and not saving energy for the next day and then "controlling" the peloton etc. 

La Vuelta has also its place, a very hard GT raced on a country that like Italy, France and Be-Ne-Lux are the pilars of the cycling tradition.

A true champion raced the full year and like that earned his place in the Pantheon of heros. not just where there where more TV cameras.


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## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

Salsa_Lover said:


> The TDF is indeed a very important event, well placed at the center of the cycling calendar, during the full summer and in France with beautiful landscapes.
> 
> That is why attracts the most atention by the media.
> 
> ...


For the record, someone else started the "best cyclist ever" bit. My post was about whether AC was overall "better" than LA. But thanks for your input. I see your gripe about LA focussing almost exclusively on the TdF, and now I don't disagree either.


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