# How long should cable housing last?



## Guest (Nov 6, 2014)

I bought a second hand bike with original Dura-Ace components. I don't know if the gear and derailleur cables are original or not, but I think the housings are. Before buying a whole new cable and housing kit, are new cables alone sufficient? The Dura-Ace housings are likely 13+ years old.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Get new. No question.


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## CheapSkate (Feb 26, 2012)

Depends on riding conditions. Here in rainy UK my winter bike needs new housing a couple of times a season, summer bike not nearly so often. I probably re-cable it once a year anyway, it's kind of a cheap upgrade, I can usually feel the difference afterwards.

I find cables last way longer than housing, I usually leave the cables alone and just do the housing (I know others have different opinions though). I just pull the cables though a clean rag and carry on.

But years and years is likely too long.

I would do cable & housing throughout since you don't know the provenance. Particularly the brake cables & housing, it would be good to know brakes are in perfect condition before you start hammering the bike ?


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## CliffordK (Jun 6, 2014)

Replacing all of the housings a few times a season? What is up with that?

I never replace mine unless there is a break in the outer housing, bad rust spots, kinks, etc. 

I'd go by condition rather than time on a 10+ yr old bike. However, if you are pre-emptively replacing cables, it isn't a bad idea to also do the housings. The housings often get stiff with brittle coverings over time.

New ones might be teflon lined, or perhaps other quality improvements in the last decade.


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## Mr645 (Jun 14, 2013)

Look at them, how to the housings look, how do the cables look? Do they operate smoothly? My Fuji has Fuji labels, but peel them back and the label under is Jagwire. In any case, after 5000+ miles, lots of rain, I have had to replace a few cables, but the housings are still fine


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## Bridgestone (Sep 6, 2007)

If you are keeping your old cable housing, cut the inner cable before dragging it through the housing damaging the liner.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

In my experience, as far as reliable shifting goes the inner cable lasts way longer than the housing. Unless the cable is kinked or has broken strands along its working length it's fine and won't affect shifting, but worn housings will. Housings wear fastest where any bends have the smallest radius. This used to be rear DR loop and often replacing that was all that was needed to restore shifting performance. With housing now routed under bar tape, that's where the tightest bends are, and there are more of them, so replacing just the RD loop isn't as helpful. Of course replacing the housing under the bar tape is comparatively a PITA.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

CheapSkate said:


> Depends on riding conditions. Here in rainy UK my winter bike needs new housing a couple of times a season, summer bike not nearly so often. I probably re-cable it once a year anyway, it's kind of a cheap upgrade, I can usually feel the difference afterwards.
> 
> I find cables last way longer than housing, I usually leave the cables alone and just do the housing (I know others have different opinions though). I just pull the cables though a clean rag and carry on.
> 
> ...


Excellent advice. 



CliffordK said:


> Replacing all of the housings a few times a season? What is up with that?
> 
> I never replace mine unless there is a break in the outer housing, bad rust spots, kinks, etc.
> 
> ...


You really have no place giving mechanical advice IMO. You throw out random thoughts that are in no way based on anything resembling fact. 


looigi said:


> In my experience, as far as reliable shifting goes the inner cable lasts way longer than the housing. Unless the cable is kinked or has broken strands along its working length it's fine and won't affect shifting, but worn housings will. Housings wear fastest where any bends have the smallest radius. This used to be rear DR loop and often replacing that was all that was needed to restore shifting performance. With housing now routed under bar tape, that's where the tightest bends are, and there are more of them, so replacing just the RD loop isn't as helpful. Of course replacing the housing under the bar tape is comparatively a PITA.


Again, excellent information.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Replace them both. Even if they work fine you don't want the cable snapping inside the shifter and without knowing how used these are that could be on the horizon. It's less of a concern with 13 year old DA than it is/was with the 7900 but I've still seen it happen with older ones too.

Going forward, 5000 miles seems to be about when I can benefit from replacing cables and housing (actually it's only the rear shifing that needs a little help but I just do them all while I'm at it). I'm assuming shifting habits have a lot to do with that so it's tough to say how often another person would need/want to replace them.


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2014)

Thanks for all the advice. I've put over 5,000 miles on the bike since I bought it, so they are probably due for a change even though performance is as good as when I bought it. I'm swapping components from an old frame to a new since I can't afford a brand new bike, hence trying to save a bit here and there. With cables, I probably shouldn't cut corners.

Anyone have experience with Yokozuna cables?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

All of the previous posts (w/ one exception, and even that one had some good info) are very solid advice. It's not just the visible condition of the housing that determines when it needs replacement. Obviously (or not, to some) the liner inside the housing will wear and this creates shifting issues. There is virtually no wear that takes place along the length of the cable, but the first couple of inches inside the shifter will fatigue from getting continuously wrapped and unwrapped around the shift drum. Strands will fray, shifting accuracy will go to hell, then your cable will break inside the shifter. The resulting situation can vary from minor inconvenience to major catastrophe depending on where the end of the cable ends up. 
For people riding 4/5/6 days a week I'd recommend once a year for cables/housing. If you're riding in rain regularly, at least twice a year. 

And please...don't let your bar tape get any older than a few months. It's a pain in the ass to take off, it gets nasty & smelly, and it can hide corrosion damage to the bars. See this thread:
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/components-wrenching/so-i-corroded-my-2nd-handlebar-340739.html


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

IMO Yokozuna stuff works well, but it's kind of a pain to cut cleanly. I've never really seen the need for compressionless housing. I normally use SRAM PitStop cables/housing on my own bike, and we use that and Shimano at the shop. We stock Jagwire colored housing for those that want it. They all work great.


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> IMO Yokozuna stuff works well, but it's kind of a pain to cut cleanly.


Dremel?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

frons said:


> Dremel?


There are 3 situations that find me working on bikes:

1) Work. Bike shop, 5 days a week. 
2) Team mechanic duties.
3) My bikes or friends bikes. 

Even if I had a Dremel plugged in and ready to go at all times it would still be too much of a hassle to use it. I've tried them in the past and they're nowhere near enough improvement over diagonal cutters or cable cutters to warrant using one. Add to that the fact that I don't see the need for Yokozuna housing to start with, I won't be using a Dremel on housing in the foreseeable future.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

I find a cutoff wheel in a Dremel to be superior to cable cutters. Maybe the Park ones I have suck, I don' t know. The big advantage is that the inner lining isn't squashed by the cutter or damaged from heat by squaring up the cut end on a bench grinder. Yes you can use an awl to open it up but it often still has more drag after that than housing cut with a dremel cutoff wheel.

I replace my housing every other cable change or more often if I think it needs it. Bar tape gets changed once or twice a year.... and I ride 9000 miles and 650 hours a year, most of that on the race bike.

I recently used Jagwire's link cable housing. It's really slick. Kind of a pain to work with however.


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## Carverbiker (Mar 6, 2013)

Impossible to tell you how long it should last. Duration depends heavily on the conditions being ridden in, wet and wild=short duration vs smooth and dry=longer duration. I try and change my housings and cables when I feel the extra effort to shift and or brake. This is much easier when starting from new of course and it is not like moving hundred pound boulders but I notice an extra drag in the line which I must overcome. The extra drag is the additional friction created by the cable not being able to slide freely through the housing due to mud, dirt, sweat, sand etc clogging things up.

Cables are much more durable and I replace those at the same time just because I like to have the whole system new and I find fitting a used cable into new housing can sometimes be a problem as the ends can fray and unwind a bit.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

frons said:


> I bought a second hand bike with original Dura-Ace components. I don't know if the gear and derailleur cables are original or not, but I think the housings are. Before buying a whole new cable and housing kit, are new cables alone sufficient? The Dura-Ace housings are likely 13+ years old.


It depends. Unlined housing can last a decade in dry conditions. Plastic lined right shifter housing run under the bar tape can bind unacceptably in 5000 miles when you shift like you have ADHD.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

Drew Eckhardt said:


> It depends.


That's the best answer given in this thread. My cables and housing are at more than 12,000 miles (roughly four seasons), and they look and act like new. In addition, in contrast to cables, which _can_ fail catastrophically, housing usually lets you know when it's time for a change. If I were the OP, as long as it works fine, I would leave it alone. "Don't fix it if it ain't broke, " applies here.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

ericm979 said:


> I find a cutoff wheel in a Dremel to be superior to cable cutters. Maybe the Park ones I have suck, I don' t know. The big advantage is that the inner lining isn't squashed by the cutter or damaged from heat by squaring up the cut end on a bench grinder. Yes you can use an awl to open it up but it often still has more drag after that than housing cut with a dremel cutoff wheel.
> 
> I replace my housing every other cable change or more often if I think it needs it. Bar tape gets changed once or twice a year.... and I ride 9000 miles and 650 hours a year, most of that on the race bike.
> 
> I recently used Jagwire's link cable housing. It's really slick. Kind of a pain to work with however.


I never use a bench grinder either. People put (IMO) way too much time and effort into cutting housing. I use a good set of diagonal cutters for brake housing and SRAM cable cutters for shift housing. They're always handy, and the SRAM tool has a built in awl for making sure the liner is open. If I slide a cable through and feel any drag I'll just cut a bit more off and hit it w/ the awl again. Zero cable drag. I've been taught by, and worked with some of the best mechanics in the country and none of them use a grinder. In my years as a team mechanic I never saw anyone use much less have a bench grinder or dremel in their trailer. 

If it's what you like, have at it, but I find it to be a waste of time. 

The Jagwire link stuff and of course Nokon work pretty well but yes...they're a pain. In the end you pay a bunch more for a tiny improvement in feel that still suffers from liner wear in the same time frame as normal housing.


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## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

In 5 years this thread will be a "remember when" topic.............


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## CliffordK (Jun 6, 2014)

Pirx said:


> Drew Eckhardt said:
> 
> 
> > It depends. Unlined housing can last a decade in dry conditions. Plastic lined right shifter housing run under the bar tape can bind unacceptably in 5000 miles when you shift like you have ADHD.
> ...


Despite what some individuals are saying, that is probably why there is so much discrepancy in the thread. Well cared for unlined cable housings are lasting decades for some individuals. The lined cable housings are apparently wearing through much quicker. 

Lined housings + coated cables?

As far as the OP building a new bike, I'd probably just use new cables and housings. One of the issues one can get is re-trimming the ends of the cables, they eventually just get too short. Plus you're building a new bike. Don't be too cheap. It is nice to have everything match too. However, at least with the unlined cable housings, you can go by the condition of the housings, whether there are cracks in the plastic, or you are getting too much friction in some spots.

If indexed shifting is the problem, then perhaps one should just use the fancy lined cable housings for shifting, and use the traditional unlined housings for brakes.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

I gotta ask, you just bought a bike (I'm guessing a couple hundred bucks since it's got Dura-Ace components), why not just spent the extra ~$40 for Dura-Ace cables and housing and enjoy the peace of mind? I don't know how long housings will last, but if it's gonna detract from your enjoyment of riding your new (to you) bike, why not replace? I just bought Ultegra cables and housings for $26 at the LBS, might have been cheaper on line. Take 30 minutes to swap them out and then ride it like you stole it.

P.S., Post pics too!


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2014)

junior1210 said:


> I gotta ask, you just bought a bike (I'm guessing a couple hundred bucks since it's got Dura-Ace components), why not just spent the extra ~$40 for Dura-Ace cables and housing and enjoy the peace of mind? I don't know how long housings will last, but if it's gonna detract from your enjoyment of riding your new (to you) bike, why not replace? I just bought Ultegra cables and housings for $26 at the LBS, might have been cheaper on line. Take 30 minutes to swap them out and then ride it like you stole it.
> 
> P.S., Post pics too!


No, I bought this bike over 2 years ago (for more than a couple hundred) and now want to swap as much of the bike's components over to a new carbon frame. I don't have any quibble with the components' current performance - if it's not broke, as they say. I had planned to buy all new cables, but the new frame is slightly smaller, so I started to wonder if I could transfer cables, too.

Still, it would be nice to have some new components on this new frame and I'm trying to find the balance between prudent and paranoid.

I haven't been able to find Dura-Ace or Ultegra brake and gear cables sets for nearly as low as you're quoting. And I'm strongly leaning toward something in white.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

frons said:


> and now want to swap as much of the bike's components over to a new carbon frame.


Well, now, that's a different story entirely. I had missed that part in your second post. If you're moving the components over to a new frame, you should definitely replace cables and housing. There's a fine line between being frugal and being a miserly tightwad. You're well on the other side of that line if you try to recycle those cables and housings. Practically speaking, those old housings and cables have been worn in on a different frame, so they will have various bends and kinks in all the wrong places and (a) just not work very well, and (b) probably fail soon.


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## Z'mer (Oct 28, 2013)

I would get the Shimano Polymer shift cables. They make them in both Ultegra and Dura-Ace 9000. The PTFE are the older technology. This place has them in white for 27. and 37. respectively. 
Shimano Ultegra SP41 Polymer-Coated Derailleur Cable Set, White @ eBikeStop.com 
Shimano Dura-Ace SP41 Polymer-Coated Derailleur Cable Set, White @ eBikeStop.com


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

CliffordK said:


> Despite what some individuals are saying, that is probably why there is so much discrepancy in the thread. Well cared for unlined cable housings are lasting decades for some individuals. The lined cable housings are apparently wearing through much quicker.
> 
> Lined housings + coated cables?
> 
> ...


This could very well be your best, most informative post yet. Well done. Only thing I can add is that 'unlined' housing is about as hard to find as the perfect combination of vertical compliance and lateral stiffness. About the only time I see it is on 30 year old bikes that have downtime friction shifters. Coated cables are great except the coating wears off pretty quickly.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Pirx said:


> Well, now, that's a different story entirely. I had missed that part in your second post. If you're moving the components over to a new frame, you should definitely replace cables and housing. There's a fine line between being frugal and being a miserly tightwad. You're well on the other side of that line if you try to recycle those cables and housings. Practically speaking, those old housings and cables have been worn in on a different frame, so they will have various bends and kinks in all the wrong places and (a) just not work very well, and (b) probably fail soon.


Yeah, I missed that too. Definitely new cables and housing. The housings now will be the wrong length, which will affect shifting performance, yadda, yadda, yadda. I'd use the old cables and housings to get things close to where they need to be, then install new to finish the job.


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2014)

Z'mer said:


> I would get the Shimano Polymer shift cables. They make them in both Ultegra and Dura-Ace 9000. The PTFE are the older technology. This place has them in white for 27. and 37. respectively.
> Shimano Ultegra SP41 Polymer-Coated Derailleur Cable Set, White @ eBikeStop.com
> Shimano Dura-Ace SP41 Polymer-Coated Derailleur Cable Set, White @ eBikeStop.com


Thnaks, Z'mer, I had not stumbled across that source before. The brake cables, though, are either the older PTFE or cable that is "Approved by Shimano for use only with Dura-Ace BR-9000/9010, Ultegra BR-6800/6810 & Cyclocross BR-CX70." Are the polymer brake cables really not backward compatible?



cxwrench said:


> IMO Yokozuna stuff works well, but it's kind of a pain to cut cleanly. I've never really seen the need for compressionless housing. I normally use SRAM PitStop cables/housing on my own bike, and we use that and Shimano at the shop. We stock Jagwire colored housing for those that want it. They all work great.


I found the SRAM PitStop housing in bulk, but no ready-made kits. Is the Shimano polymer coated stuff a good long-term choice, or will I be replacing it in a couple of years (or sooner)? I avoid wet weather riding if at all possible.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

frons said:


> Thnaks, Z'mer, I had not stumbled across that source before. The brake cables, though, are either the older PTFE or cable that is "Approved by Shimano for use only with Dura-Ace BR-9000/9010, Ultegra BR-6800/6810 & Cyclocross BR-CX70." Are the polymer brake cables really not backward compatible?
> 
> 
> I found the SRAM PitStop housing in bulk, but no ready-made kits. Is the Shimano polymer coated stuff a good long-term choice, or *will I be replacing it in a couple of years (or sooner)? I avoid wet weather riding if at all possible.*


As more than one person has posted, it depends. NO ONE here can predict w/ any accuracy how long your cables/housing will last. I am most definitely NOT a fan of any coated cable. If there is something on the cable there is something that can come off and degrade shifting. Or that the producer can charge more for but you'll never notice a difference after shelling out the extra money. You really can't get much better (or last longer) than Shimano cables/housing or the comparable SRAM product. They actually cost less and will perform better consistently longer than any coated cable. If you ride 3/4/5 times a week I'd replace them yearly. It's cheap insurance. 

Sort of like changing the oil in your car's motor before it blows up, not after.

And those Shimano polymer coated cables can be used w/ any parts and/or housing.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Replace cables a few time a season? what ya nuts? Even when I use to put on 10,000 to 12,000 miles a year I only replaced cables once every 3 years! You can tell when it's time to replace the cables with the shifting performance drops off but even then you could try adding a few drops of oil inside the housing or remove the cable and apply a thin layer of grease to it. I rarely have to replace a housing but if you see cracks or splits then it's time for new housing. The cable will also give you appearance clues like fraying, but even fraying is ok if it's at the very end where it would cause no problems in functionality. 

I wouldn't waste my money on high end cables, Shimano Dura Ace 9000 cables are as good as they get for less money then the boutique brands and last a long time.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

I know that I should replace the cables every year, and the housing every other year, but I'm a lazy slug. I usually stretch it to 2/3 year replacement.
Being 13 years old, you can use the cheaper SP40 housing set. 
.


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2014)

Thanks again for all the great advice and your patience.



cxwrench said:


> NO ONE here can predict w/ any accuracy how long your cables/housing will last. I am most definitely NOT a fan of any coated cable. (snip) And those Shimano polymer coated cables can be used w/ any parts and/or housing.


So the polymer coated Dura Ace 9000 cables are in the category of cables you wouldn't recommend?


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## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

I hate to disagree with cxwrench, but I am a big fan of the 9000 cables and as I understand they need to be matched with 9000 housings. The reason given is that the lubricant in the housings is matched to the polymer and minimizes its deterioration. They certainly feel great in the brake cabling I've done and so I would assume they are just as nice in the gear cabling.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

frons said:


> Thanks again for all the great advice and your patience.
> 
> 
> 
> So the polymer coated Dura Ace 9000 cables are in the category of cables you wouldn't recommend?


I've had mine 9000 cables for two seasons and so far they're still good and this is after quite a bit of rain riding too. But truth be told I don't see why they wouldn't last at least another season since lessor grade of cables I've used have. 

But I would like to hear if cxwrench likes or dislikes these cables.


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2014)

Yeah, at some point everyone has to decide for themselves what they want to try. I just hate buying things twice. As long as the DA 9000 cables and housings will work with my DA7700 shifters, that's what I will give a try.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

froze said:


> Replace cables a few time a season? what ya nuts? Even when I use to put on 10,000 to 12,000 miles a year I only replaced cables once every 3 years! You can tell when it's time to replace the cables with the shifting performance drops off but even then you could try adding a few drops of oil inside the housing or remove the cable and apply a thin layer of grease to it. I rarely have to replace a housing but if you see cracks or splits then it's time for new housing. The cable will also give you appearance clues like fraying, but even fraying is ok if it's at the very end where it would cause no problems in functionality.
> 
> I wouldn't waste my money on high end cables, Shimano Dura Ace 9000 cables are as good as they get for less money then the boutique brands and last a long time.


I'm sorry, but I can't help think you're replying to me even though you didn't quote my post. You seem to know very little about this kind of thing past your own personal experience. I'm speaking from 20+ years in the business and many years as a professional team mechanic. What is it you do for a living? And to make it clear, I'm not trying to sound like a dick, but sorry if it comes across that way.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> I know that I should replace the cables every year, and the housing every other year,


Says who? There's absolutely no reason to do that, if there's no reason to do it. Moreover, while there may be some heavy-use scenarios where this kind of schedule makes sense, I'll go out on a limb and say that for the average hobby rider such a schedule is plain nuts, and a glorious waste of time and money.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> I know that I should replace the cables every year, and the housing every other year, but I'm a lazy slug. I usually stretch it to 2/3 year replacement.
> Being 13 years old, you can use the cheaper SP40 housing set.
> .


You should replace the housing more often than the cables as they wear MUCH quicker than the cables do.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> I'm not trying to sound like a dick, but sorry if it comes across that way.


You remind me of me a little. When I try to explain things of the few of the subjects I know a lot about, I have a little trouble closing gaps. Vry few FWIW. 


I can explain that further if you want, and don't mean it to call you out.

But reading your posts it is clear to me you know a lot about the topic.

Peace


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

cxwrench said:


> I'm sorry, but I can't help think you're replying to me even though you didn't quote my post. You seem to know very little about this kind of thing past your own personal experience. I'm speaking from 20+ years in the business and many years as a professional team mechanic. What is it you do for a living? And to make it clear, I'm not trying to sound like a dick, but sorry if it comes across that way.


I wasn't replying to you in general but to start things off I don't reveal what I do for living on any forum, something about being private. As far as you being a bike team mechanic...well if you say so, the problem is a forum is a great place to be something you're not...not trying to be a dick but on a forum not many really knows who is who, and it's a great place to be a fake which is another reason I don't reveal what I do so as not to come across as a fake. I'm also not saying you're a liar, and for the most part things I've read from you seem to be right on.

The cables will tell you when it's time to replace as I mentioned before, to have a set time frame isn't the correct way, it's like saying every 1,000 miles replace your tires, except what happens if you normally get 4,000 miles replace them every 1,000 miles because someone says that's what you should do regardless of what the tire is telling you? I've been riding bikes for twice as long as 20 years and I did some racing myself, even when I raced I didn't replace my cables every season, there was no need because they were fine and I was paying for my parts when I raced I had no sponsors so if the cables were fine I wasn't going to spend the money to replace them; my current bike I got 2 seasons ago still has the original DA 9000 cables I opted to put on when I got the bike and the cables are just fine and I expect them to last at least another season. I check my stuff a lot, I spot things that need to be taken care of which is probably why I rarely have a mechanical breakdown while riding, (I don't consider flats or a crash a mechanical breakdown), I can't even recall when the last time I had a mechanical breakdown. I'm not rough on my equipment even when I raced which is maybe why I didn't come in first place often...LOL! I still have my last racing bike and it has over 160,000 miles on the original components with no breakdowns on the road that I can recall. Or maybe I'm just lying about all of that...

So really you can post all the years experience you want, heck say you have a 100 years just to make a point, so what? Everyone has their own personal experience about how long things last for them and for me I see no need to replace cables until the signs that I mentioned earlier start to show.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

goodboyr said:


> I hate to disagree with cxwrench, but I am a big fan of the 9000 cables and as I understand they need to be matched with 9000 housings. The reason given is that the lubricant in the housings is matched to the polymer and minimizes its deterioration. They certainly feel great in the brake cabling I've done and so I would assume they are just as nice in the gear cabling.


The reason I opted for 9000 cables on my Lynskey with 105 components is because I read that using those cables (and Ultegra rear derailleur) instead of the lower end ones supplied with 105 makes the 105 behave and feel like Dura Ace, and after test riding both the 105 and the Dura Ace it does feel like a much more expensive Dura Ace set up. And Matthew at Adrenalin Bikes that built my bike said it was good idea and would change the responsiveness and feeling of the stock 105.


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## Z'mer (Oct 28, 2013)

frons said:


> Thnaks, Z'mer, I had not stumbled across that source before. The brake cables, though, are either the older PTFE or cable that is "Approved by Shimano for use only with Dura-Ace BR-9000/9010, Ultegra BR-6800/6810 & Cyclocross BR-CX70." Are the polymer brake cables really not backward compatible?


On the question of new polymer brake cables being compatable - yes, they are OK to use with anything. There is absolutely no dimensional difference. Here's the deal - you need to scrape the polymer coating off the end of the cable where the bolt attaches it. The new polymer cable is so slippery that if you don't remove the coating, it can slip at the bolting termination position. 

I think you can see why Shimano may be nervous about this, and wanting to limit liability, state it should only be use on the new 6800 / 9000 brake systems, which apparently have beefed up termination bolt systems. A slippage of the brake cable under emergency conditions could be a real problem 
In a nutshell, you need to use a utility knife or single edge razor to scrape the coating off the very end of cable, at the area where it is bolted. 

I can see why some bike mechanics may not like this approach, especially when it may add extra time (4 cables, maybe 10-20 minutes) to a cable replacement job that has a nominal quoted fixed price. 
But for people doing it on their own time, once every couple of years, it not really a concern. I try to buy the best I can get, especially when the price difference is on the order of $10-20. between crap and best.


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## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

Jagwire Road Elite shift cables. Best, lightest feeling shifting I've ever had. It eliminates the binding of the bottom bracket cable guide, the highest friction area of an open cable system which is exposed to contamination.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Z'mer said:


> On the question of new polymer brake cables being compatable - yes, they are OK to use with anything. There is absolutely no dimensional difference. Here's the deal - you need to scrape the polymer coating off the end of the cable where the bolt attaches it. The new polymer cable is so slippery that if you don't remove the coating, it can slip at the bolting termination position.
> 
> I think you can see why Shimano may be nervous about this, and wanting to limit liability, state it should only be use on the new 6800 / 9000 brake systems, which apparently have beefed up termination bolt systems. A slippage of the brake cable under emergency conditions could be a real problem
> In a nutshell, you need to use a utility knife or single edge razor to scrape the coating off the very end of cable, at the area where it is bolted.
> ...



Was this problem on all 9000 cables or a certain year? 

Why has nothing been said about this problem? This is the first I've heard of it and I can't imagine how many bikes on the road have those cables. 

I've had to panic stop on my rig couple of times with those cables and didn't experience any issues so not sure if Adrenalin Bikes did that to the cables or not, but if not it doesn't seem to be an issue...yet!

This is a very interesting thing you brought up, the next time I'm at my LBS I'm going to ask them if they know about this problem and see what they say.

I just checked the internet and found only a forum discussing an issue with them breaking only on 11 speed systems and it had to do with the DA shifter mechanism not the cable due to taking a 90 degree bend inside, no recall from Shimano either. See this and read post #3 in particular that explains the shifter issue: Broken DA 9000 cables?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

froze said:


> I wasn't replying to you in general but to start things off I don't reveal what I do for living on any forum, something about being private. As far as you being a bike team mechanic...well if you say so, the problem is a forum is a great place to be something you're not...not trying to be a dick but on a forum not many really knows who is who, and it's a great place to be a fake which is another reason I don't reveal what I do so as not to come across as a fake. I'm also not saying you're a liar, and for the most part things I've read from you seem to be right on.
> 
> The cables will tell you when it's time to replace as I mentioned before, to have a set time frame isn't the correct way, it's like saying every 1,000 miles replace your tires, except what happens if you normally get 4,000 miles replace them every 1,000 miles because someone says that's what you should do regardless of what the tire is telling you? I've been riding bikes for twice as long as 20 years and I did some racing myself, even when I raced I didn't replace my cables every season, there was no need because they were fine and I was paying for my parts when I raced I had no sponsors so if the cables were fine I wasn't going to spend the money to replace them; my current bike I got 2 seasons ago still has the original DA 9000 cables I opted to put on when I got the bike and the cables are just fine and I expect them to last at least another season. I check my stuff a lot, I spot things that need to be taken care of which is probably why I rarely have a mechanical breakdown while riding, (I don't consider flats or a crash a mechanical breakdown), I can't even recall when the last time I had a mechanical breakdown. I'm not rough on my equipment even when I raced which is maybe why I didn't come in first place often...LOL! I still have my last racing bike and it has over 160,000 miles on the original components with no breakdowns on the road that I can recall. Or maybe I'm just lying about all of that...
> 
> So really you can post all the years experience you want, heck say you have a 100 years just to make a point, so what? Everyone has their own personal experience about how long things last for them and for me I see no need to replace cables until the signs that I mentioned earlier start to show.


Ok, so now we seem to know there is a certain level of mistrust and paranoia in your life. This is a bicycle forum...really not much need for secrecy OR lying, at least on my part. Maybe you're a spy or a Navy SEAL and you need a certain level of secrecy to feel safe. You can definitely trust me when I talk about my time in the industry and the work I've done for Pro teams. I've got a nifty photo of a 2 time Olympic champion on my wall that's signed by her and the ownership partner of the team they run thanking me for my help over the years. I'll post it if that would help you believe me. But I guess that could be anyone taking a photo of a photo and it doesn't really prove anything at all...what am I thinking? I have no reason to lie about this stuff, we're talking about bicycles after all. 

The problem I had w/ your "what?!? replace cables/housing every year? that's crazy' post was that it's _your _personal experience that they last longer. You have _your_ experience w/ _your_ equipment. It's great that you have such good luck w/ your stuff and never have any problems. The fact is that I work on _hundreds_ of bikes every year so I see a bit more than you do. I see bikes that need to have cables and housing replaced after 6 months. I see bikes that have had cables break in shifters after a single year, much less 3. Because of this I can safely say what _might happen and how to prevent it_. Hell, when we used unsealed systems on CX bikes we replaced cables/housing after every muddy race. That's obviously an extreme, but you have to know the extremes before you find the middle ground that might be right for you. 

I find (after working on and building dozens of bikes w/ 6800 & 9000) that the cables require much more care when installing and tend to lose some of the coating pretty quickly when not installed w/ such care. Which seems to be much more the norm than the exception given the relative lack of talent shown by many mechanics. The cables themselves won't magically last a lot longer than normal cables just because they're coated w/ some new polymer...the steel strands will still fatigue. I've replaced broken SP41 polymer cables that didn't make it a year, and I've seen them last longer. What would that tell you? If you've ever spent 15mins fishing a frayed and broken cable end out of a shifter you'd probably want to minimize the chance of that same thing happening again. You'd do that by coming up w/ a 'safe' cable replacement interval. If my customer breaks a cable after 10mos of riding, then I'm going to tell him he should have replaced at 8 or 9mos...now we both know what he needs to do. I'll use this _experience_ when dealing w/ other customers that use the same parts.


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## Z'mer (Oct 28, 2013)

froze said:


> Was this problem on all 9000 cables or a certain year?
> 
> Why has nothing been said about this problem? This is the first I've heard of it and I can't imagine how many bikes on the road have those cables.
> 
> ...


I forgot who brought this up originally, but found discussions here 
Dura Ace 9000 Cables with Ultegra 6700? - The Paceline Forum
and here, post #53 and forward
Dura Ace 9000 - Reports after a few months of use? - Page 3

The use of new serrated cable fixing bolts on the 9000 brakes is mentioned in both cases. This is used to better grab the polymer cables. 
Also this point I did not mention - after running the cable through pre-lubricated housings, you need to clean the end of the inner cable, and bolt surface that touches the cable. 
I would say these are "precautions" when using polymer cables with anything other than 9000/6800 brakes. Not that it is a "problem".


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## Z'mer (Oct 28, 2013)

goodboyr said:


> ... I am a big fan of the 9000 cables and as I understand they need to be matched with 9000 housings. The reason given is that *the lubricant in the housings is matched to the polymer and minimizes its deterioration*. They certainly feel great in the brake cabling I've done and so I would assume they are just as nice in the gear cabling.


In case you were looking for this special Shimano SP41 cable housing lubricant, you can get it here - 
Amazon.com : Shimano SIS-SP41 Shift Cable Grease (50 grams) : Bike Greases : Sports & Outdoors

I have internal cables with liners, and wanted to run the cable grease through the liners (as they are not lubricated). The liners are also extend to the BB area, and see a lot of rub pressure due to the sharp bends. In the dealer manual Shimano also recommends using this to lubricate the cable ends near the shifter (where there is no housing).


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Z'mer said:


> In case you were looking for this special Shimano SP41 cable housing lubricant, you can get it here -
> Amazon.com : Shimano SIS-SP41 Shift Cable Grease (50 grams) : Bike Greases : Sports & Outdoors
> 
> I have internal cables with liners, and wanted to run the cable grease through the liners (as they are not lubricated). The liners are also extend to the BB area, and see a lot of rub pressure due to the sharp bends. In the dealer manual Shimano also recommends using this to lubricate the cable ends near the shifter (where there is no housing).


^ This is a very good light grease. ^ We end up using it on lots of stuff.


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## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

cxwrench said:


> ^ This is a very good light grease. ^ We end up using it on lots of stuff.


I'm curious why cables need lubing if the run inside a plastic liner?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

mfdemicco said:


> I'm curious why cables need lubing if the run inside a plastic liner?


What did I say about lubing cables? I said the Shimano grease is very good and we use for lots of things. I never mentioned that one of those is lubing cables. Personally I never lube cables/housing. I find that it just gets dirty much quicker because dirt sticks to it when it normally might not. This dirt will of course accelerate wear of the liner.


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## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

cxwrench said:


> What did I say about lubing cables? I said the Shimano grease is very good and we use for lots of things. I never mentioned that one of those is lubing cables. Personally I never lube cables/housing. I find that it just gets dirty much quicker because dirt sticks to it when it normally might not. This dirt will of course accelerate wear of the liner.


I didn't mean you, but I probably shouldn't have quoted you. Shimano developed this lube for housings/cables. Wonder why they think lube is necessary in this application? Maybe if regular steel cables are used because lube prevents rust, but for stainless steel, corrosion is not an issue.


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## Z'mer (Oct 28, 2013)

mfdemicco said:


> Shimano developed this lube for housings/cables. Wonder why they think lube is necessary in this application? Maybe if regular steel cables are used because lube prevents rust, but for stainless steel, corrosion is not an issue.


Only you can decide the best way to maintain your bike, whether you lube the cables or not. If you do clean and lube them, though, don't screw it up. Use the recommended stuff. Likely do to incompatibility with the coated cable plastics, using the wrong lube can be worse than no lube at all. 
From the ST-6800 dealer manual, available here
SHIMANO Dealer's Manual / User's Manual

_"Grease the inner cable and the inside of the outer casing before use to ensure that they slide properly. Do not let dust adhere _
_on the inner cable. If the grease on the inner cable is wiped off, the application of SIS SP41 grease (Y04180000) is _
_recommended._
_• A special grease is used for the gear shifting cable. Do not use premium grease or other types of grease, otherwise they may _
_cause deterioration in gear shifting performance." _


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## SwimCycle09 (Apr 22, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> And please...don't let your bar tape get any older than a few months. It's a pain in the ass to take off, it gets nasty & smelly, and it can hide corrosion damage to the bars. See this thread:
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/components-wrenching/so-i-corroded-my-2nd-handlebar-340739.html


That is terrifying...I didn't even think about serious corrosion like that being a possibility unless your ride alot in coastal areas or are pouring out sweat all over your bars from the trainer/rollers. 

Based on that issue alone, CX how often would you reccomend replacing handlebar tape?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

SwimCycle09 said:


> That is terrifying...I didn't even think about serious corrosion like that being a possibility unless your ride alot in coastal areas or are pouring out sweat all over your bars from the trainer/rollers.
> 
> Based on that issue alone, CX how often would you reccomend replacing handlebar tape?


Every few months. But first, wait a year or 2 and see how much fun it is to take off. Then you'll really know what I'm talking about.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

cxwrench said:


> Every few months. But first, wait a year or 2 and see how much fun it is to take off. Then you'll really know what I'm talking about.


I usually leave my Cinelli Gel cork tape on for about two or three years. It's perfectly fine, and no particular problem to take off.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Pirx said:


> I usually leave my Cinelli Gel cork tape on for about two or three years. It's perfectly fine, and no particular problem to take off.


I go a year and that's only because I replace cables once a year (7900 shifters are prone to breaking cables inside the shifter so I play it safe) and there's no problem taking it off for me either.

Need for replacing frequently must have to do with sweating habits I guess. I ride with a guy we all thought had the worlds worse BO. I happened to be at the shop when his bike was in for new cables and it was definitely hard to get the tape off and it was also clearly the source of the horrible smell we thought was BO. So although it's not my experience or that of most people I know I can see where frequent replacement is needed for some though.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

Jay Strongbow said:


> Need for replacing frequently must have to do with sweating habits I guess.


Yes, that's probably true. Some people seem to have sweat that's similar to that green "blood" of the Aliens in the movies, eating through solid steel, carbon fiber composites, or aluminum alike. In that case, yes, replace early and often...


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