# Levi Gran Fondo century + carbon clincher



## deviousalex

Just bought my ticket. In the registration I had to check a box that says I understand carbon clinchers are highly discouraged. This makes me sad because I just bought some 2011 Reynolds DV3Ks as a quarter century life crisis present to myself.

I was wondering if anyone has done this ride with carbon clinchers? If you have, do you mind saying how quickly you descent or your riding style as well as what type of wheels you used and how much you weigh? For reference I'm usually about 160lbs.

I've heard that this course has grades of over 15%, but when I look at the profile I see a max of 9%. Maybe it's not that accurate?


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## ericm979

Map my ride's profiles often understate the grade.

The problem with braking isn't the grade so much, it's the curves you're braking for. The roads out there are very twisty. An 8% grade with repeated 10 mph corners requires a lot more braking than an 8% grade that's straight.

As someone who knows how to descend and has had a tire blow off a carbon clincher rim on a steep twisty road, I think you'd be an idiot to use them on this ride when they explicitly told you not to. The only person I know who has used carbon clinchers on this ride had them melt and come apart on the ride.


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## deviousalex

What types of rims were you using? Also, if you don't mind how much do you weigh?


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## Chef Tony

As noted, Map My Ride will misreport the grade depending on the distance displayed- zoom in on a particular hill & you will get a more accurate #.


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## Eric_H

I did the Fondo last year. The descent off King's Ridge to Hauser Bridge has some very steep sections. I believe one short section approaches 22%. King's Ridge Road is also very narrow and very rough, go to Google Maps and look at Streetview and you'll get an idea. I was riding alloy clinchers, there was a light drizzle and the roads were slick when I descended Hauser. Honestly it was just about as technical of a descent as I have ever encountered in my 20 years of racing and riding. Every year there have been serious crashes on this descent, from what I have read. I was pretty happy I was not on my carbon clinchers (I have 2 pair), I had read from previous years about guys blowing out wheels so I left them at home. EDIT ** I rode Campy Eurus clinchers with Vittoria Open Pave tires. I am about 165-170 lb, strong descender, now retired cat 1 racer.

In addition to the risk of overheating and blowing out a rim on the steep descents, I would say overall the roads in Sonoma County are pretty rough. It is easy to nail a big pothole when riding in the large group, even on the roads just outside of Occidental. I would much rather trash an aluminum rim than a carbon rim, from a $$ standpoint.

Otherwise, the ride is phenomenal. I registered again and barring unforseen circumstances I will be there on Sept 29. Compared to some other Fondo events I have ridden, Levi's has a great non-race atmosphere. It is really a celebration of cycling, and I did not get the race vibe from the event at all. Having raced for the better part of 17 years, I am a believer that Fondos should be fun and largely non-competitive and this one definitely fits the bill.


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## PoorCyclist

Last year, by the time I got to the descent, it was wet when coming back down so many riders just drag the brakes at a low speed to avoid problems. 

re: carbon clinchers... beside the descents, there are quite a bit of craters size potholes and cattle grates to easily abuse your rims. So bring your burliest toughest rim.. I used kinlin 30mm with 25mm gatorskins and will be putting this on again this year. I think it is important to bomb through some of the obstacle in this event then have to worry about rims blowing up or bending. It was a little muddy and wet there was a bit of a cyclocross vibe to it.


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## deviousalex

Hmm...the only other wheelset I have are Easton EA90 TTs, 32mm depth, 16/20 spokes. They are pretty good but I wouldn't consider them bomb proof.


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## nvanrider

Hi deviousalex, Eric_H is correct on the grades. I also did the race last year; the roads are very, very rough (twice my waterbottles vibrated right out of their cages) and very steep. My gps read up to 24% on a couple of occasions. The roads also have cattle guards (I think I counted around 13 of them) which have the pipes very well spaced, these are rough on your bike/wheels and body. To add to this, the course has a lot of turns - there is almost NO straight riding, thus a lot of braking on descent. 

Back to the original question, basically, "can your wheels take the abuse of this course". Probably, I'm thinking about riding carbon tubies this year (I rode Fulcrum 3 tubeless last year), for the most part I think gear failures are blown out of proportion. However, proceed with caution!

Good luck in the race - see you there.


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## ratpick

Thanks for the reminder.. just registered. Haven't done it before, or ridden Kings Ridge, so looking forward to it. 

The Mt Tam Double took us on some of the roads in this area and there are some pretty nasty surfaces on many of those descents. I hit a few potholes at speed despite my best efforts to weave through them.


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## redmr2_man

+1 on leaving the carbon at home. I've heard some pretty gnarly crashes happened on overheated carbon wheels in the last few years.


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## masornia925

you should also consider the amount of cycling traffic that will cause braking. Did the medio last year and thought that i was the only one obeying the suggested finish time/avg speed signs at the start with the number of ppl i had to pass to maintain my usual pace and ppl i had to dodge as a result of inexperience riding in a bunch.


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## cinelliguy

I have done the GF ride a couple of times and have also some experience in overheating a carbon clincher rear wheel. Happened on a steep (+15%) and long (2+mi) decent and got the braking surface so hot that the tire bead let go and I popped the tube on the rear brake caliper when the tire blew out of the rim. I did not go down, but it was handful for a few seconds. 

Please do not ride them, save them for a less hilly route.


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## deviousalex

Hmmm....I didn't think about the bike traffic. It's annoying enough to get around other bikers going down Kings Mtn/La Honda Road/Page Mill etc when there's only a few around.
I've had these wheels for a week and I put a 105 miles on then over the weekend. I did a fairly aggressive descent down Kings Mtn, but some of these grades seem a lot steeper. Good news is I have the whole year to test them out! I'll do some other descents like Turnitas Creek and see how they hold up.


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## PoorCyclist

Did you guys book your accomodations/hotel yet? any recommendations?


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## Blue CheeseHead

This picture is taken near the top of Meyer's Grade which is near the 60 mile mark. Needless to say it is a fast descent down to HWY 1. 










There is a nasty off camber kink in the road that is no fun at 40mph not far from that picture. After that the road opens up and the view is striking:











Even before the Hoogarland crash at TdF, I took note of that barbed wire "catch fence" on each side of the road.

Eric H, I am with you on that descent down to Hauser Bridge. I hate that thing. The road is pretty rough and the partial shade from the trees makes it near impossible to see the rough spots.


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## deviousalex

That road doesn't look too bad of quality, there are worse corners on Kings and OLH honestly. The grade is scary though.


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## cinelliguy

Kings Mtn is shorter and less steep than the Fondo decents. Just saying...


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## deviousalex

Yeah, I'm just saying the quality of roads in that pic isn't too bad.


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## cinelliguy

OK, got that, here is one for you. 

Kings Ridge decent, 35mph+, I see upcoming pipe cattle grate, pipes are much larger and separated that I assessed, no time/space to slow down, riders all around me, I loose both water bottles, one falls under my back tire, bike goes sideways, I steer into the angle, save myself. No water bottles for the remainder of the ride. Just about scared me off the bike!


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## EvilEuro

During the first Fondo, on the descent from King's Ridge to Hauser Bridge, I met a fellow at the King's Ridge rest stop who had broken his collarbone because his Bontrager XXX carbon clincher overheated and he blew out his tube on the descent. Needless to say, he said he'd be using alloy the next year.

There's a reason they put that warning on the registration this year -- the descent from from King's Ridge to Hauser Bridge and the descent down to Hwy 1 are fast and heat up the rim easily. King's Ridge to Hauser Bridge is also very technical. I can honestly say the first time I did that descent is also the first time I can recall ever being consciously scared in the middle of a descent. I got to the bottom of it and felt like I'd been put through the ringer.

Think about it -- multiple people, most of whom would consider themselves good bike riders, good bike handlers and good descenders, are telling you to avoid using a carbon clincher because of the likelihood of blowing a tube on one of the descents and the road conditions. The bike organizer is also telling you the same thing. There's a reason for that and it's not to deny you the joy of using your Reynolds wheels.


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## Todman007

+1 what EvilEuro said.

In addition, the picture of Meyers Grade Rd. that OP says looks good, ie road surface smooth is about as good as it will be. But the rest of the 107.5 miles of road on the Gran Fondo is either ground up asphalt, crumbling chip seal, poorly maintained county road. And throw in some technical, off camber descents and cattle guards and thousands of other riders and you hopefully will begin to understand why the organizers put out the disclaimer. 

Enjoy the ride, and keep it safe for all of us.

Oh, and one more bit of 'food for thought'. Should you go down on your carbon wheels remember that Hauser Bridge and beyond is many miles from EMS crews who will have to come rescue you.


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## a4avant

Here's a story on 3 serious accidents that happened at Hauser Bridge last year. All of them had to be helicoptered out.

pressdemocrat.com/article/20111001/ARTICLES/111009970


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## deviousalex

After all that it makes me wonder why someone would stage a recreational group ride here.
The only reason I really want to ride the carbon clinchers is because they are stiffer and have better vibration dampening. I guess I should invest in a carbon frame before this ride if I want my ass to forgive me hah


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## ericm979

25mm tires run at the appropriate pressure for your weight (most riders pump their tires up too much) would have a bigger effect on comfort.

If you don't try to "win" the "race" on the descents, make safe passes (most riders won't be skilled at riding close so leave plenty of room) and don't out-ride your skill level it'll be fine.


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## deviousalex

Just out curiosity I asked Reynolds what their view on the subject was. Here is the reply I got.



> Overheating is a valid concern on carbon rims. We test our rims to very high temperatures and the failures we’ve seen due to heat can usually be traced to improper pads used with our rims.
> 
> High heat can also be generated with our pads when excessive braking is going on. That being said I would get some practice runs on some similar hills etc before you go on this ride, especially if you’re new to riding a carbon braking surface. If you don’t feel comfortable with the braking or experience anything strange you may want to consider using a different set of wheels.
> Remember we do have pro athletes riding the same braking surface you have on some of the most epic descents on the pro tour with no issues.


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## PoorCyclist

The Manley Report: Levi's Granfondo Carbon Clincher Failure on Meyers Grade


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## sometimerider

deviousalex said:


> After all that it makes me wonder why someone would stage a recreational group ride here.


To me, the question is why would anyone buy components that require a warning that they shouldn't be used on long, steep descents or in bad weather?


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## 180

You can always get there a day early and plan a more clincher-friendly route. There's plenty of great riding to be had there. Try the Wine Country Century route or the Tour of Napa. Let it be known that cell service isn't always dependable in those parts, especially near the coast.


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## EvilEuro

deviousalex said:


> After all that it makes me wonder why someone would stage a recreational group ride here.
> The only reason I really want to ride the carbon clinchers is because they are stiffer and have better vibration dampening. I guess I should invest in a carbon frame before this ride if I want my ass to forgive me hah


The key here is that you're thinking of it as a recreational ride and it has never been pitched as such. Gran Fondos, by their nature, are not meant to be leisurely, recreational centuries. There are lots of those. This is a ride intended to challenge you as a cyclist, at least the Gran ride is. 

Your reward for doing it is some gorgeously scenic, fully supported riding in an area where you would be completely SOL if something happened otherwise. There is minimal mobile phone service in the King's Ridge area and homes are few and far between were you to have need for aide while riding out there on your own. 

Regardless of whether you're riding a carbon or steel frame, it's a great ride and you will enjoy it immensely. I've been each year and the ride just keeps getting better from an organizational standpoint even with the number of riders increasing each year. It's a great event with a good spirit to it. You'll enjoy it... even if your bum is a bit sore at the end.


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## Eric_H

Can't agree with EvilEuro and Todman007 enough. We are not trying to be buzzkills here, just telling the real story. The pic on Meyer's grade....yeah that is the best pavement on the whole route pretty much. Kings Road is way more rough, way more irregular. For all the hype about Meyer's Grade, I thought that descent was nothing compared to Hauser Bridge.

Without sounding like a douche here, I'll give you my history on two wheels: started riding a motorcycle at age 3, raced motocross from age 8 to 19. Raced BMX in there, always riding BMX. Went to university, started MTB riding, then MTB racing then got a road bike. That was almost 20 years ago. Raced for 17 years on the road, 12 at P/1/2 level. I am a very confident bike handler. I have a set of Edge 45 clinchers, and Reynolds SDV 66 clinchers. I would not ride them at Levi's fondo, both out of braking concerns and road roughness.

@PoorCyclist - we stayed last year at the Sonoma Hilton. It was pretty good, we usually stay at Hiltons to get rewards points. Easy ride to the start, about 4 miles.

@a4avant - about the carbon clinchers and why anyone would want them. They are great wheels in certain types of terrain. Rolling hills and flats, I love them. Light, aero, strong and no gluing tires (I'm past that point in my life, unless someone wants to be my personal mechanic). However, I would not use carbon clinchers on a ride or race where I might have to do extended braking because of the heating concerns. I have raced them in big bunches on some courses with big descents and I have been very cautious on them in terms of dragging the brakes. Honestly I don't like having to think about it during a race so generally I shy away from using them if I know there will be long descents, or I might use the rear and use a light aluminum clincher front. IMO carbon clinchers are no different than super light alloy tubular wheels used for climbing back in the 80s and 90s, I would not run those wheels in all conditions either.


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## Eric_H

a4avant said:


> Here's a story on 3 serious accidents that happened at Hauser Bridge last year. All of them had to be helicoptered out.
> 
> pressdemocrat.com/article/20111001/ARTICLES/111009970


I was not going to comment on this story, but since someone else put a link I will.

The two Canadians in this article are friends of mine from work, and I know them both quite well. The story does not provide the details, but when they descended Hauser it was very wet. He was in front and there was a line up of people waiting to cross the metal grate bridge (the CHP were making people get off and walk). She came down the descent and there was a lot of chaos, she got out of control and crashed, sliding into her boyfriend and both of them went over an embankment. She broke her hand badly, broke her scapula and had a concussion. He had a concussion and heavy bruising. Both are doing much better now and back on the road to full health. And fortunately they had insurance.....

My wife and I did not know they had crashed until a couple of days later when I saw this article. We did not see them post-ride but with 7500 plus families and friends we did not consider it out of place. We had not travelled down with them and did not make formal plans to meet up, just a "see you there"' kind of thing. I was absolutely freaked when I got the news.


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## a4avant

@EricH Glad to hear that your friends are on the mend and back on the road to full recovery. I've been using alu clinchers with 25mm Gatorskins for the past few Fondos and with the wet conditions last year, was very thankful after hitting more potholes, etc. than I would have liked.


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## deviousalex

I have seen some Michelin Pro 3 Grip tires on Bonktown for $30 each. I wonder if I should buy two next time they come up in case it's wet.


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## Blue CheeseHead

deviousalex said:


> That road doesn't look too bad of quality, there are worse corners on Kings and OLH honestly. The grade is scary though.


Like others said, that section of road is some of the best.

Once you get through the twisty bit through the trees you can let it roll pretty good. As you can see I did not ride it with a crowd. Having a bunch of unknown riders around would make me pucker a bit.


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## wjb

I also purchased the DV3k's and like them a lot. However I will be switching back to the stock wheels or pick up a light set of alum wheels between now and the Fondo. That road is a killer and you don't really need to have that extra worry. There will be plenty of other stuff to worry about.


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## jkk

Slightly off-topic but relevant to consider in your choice of wheelset for this ride ... the upper section of Coleman Valley Road can get strong gusty crosswinds that can grab you quite forcefully. It's a relatively short section of road, under 10 miles, but coupled with those cattle grates it's enough to be a consideration if it happens to be a windy day. I frequently ride this road and I personally prefer a non-aero wheelset on it.


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## BunnV

Damn! I finally got a set of carbon clinchers (haven't tried them yet) and I considered selling my HED alloy clinchers.....ummmm nope!


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## Eric_H

One last thought on this subject - if I was asked to give my description of the ideal wheelset for Levi's fondo I would say something like HED Ardennes, or a handbuilt wheelset using the HED C2 rims or the Velocity A23. And 25C tires. Get a nice big contact patch out of these combos, and still reasonably light. Just be sure that 25C tires work on your bike before ordering them, some rear stays are very tight for clearance.


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## CoLiKe20

Eric_H said:


> Can't agree with EvilEuro and Todman007 enough. We are not trying to be buzzkills here, just telling the real story. The pic on Meyer's grade....yeah that is the best pavement on the whole route pretty much. Kings Road is way more rough, way more irregular. For all the hype about Meyer's Grade, I thought that descent was nothing compared to Hauser Bridge.
> 
> Without sounding like a douche here, I'll give you my history on two wheels: started riding a motorcycle at age 3, raced motocross from age 8 to 19. Raced BMX in there, always riding BMX. Went to university, started MTB riding, then MTB racing then got a road bike. That was almost 20 years ago. Raced for 17 years on the road, 12 at P/1/2 level. I am a very confident bike handler. I have a set of Edge 45 clinchers, and Reynolds SDV 66 clinchers. I would not ride them at Levi's fondo, both out of braking concerns and road roughness.
> 
> @PoorCyclist - we stayed last year at the Sonoma Hilton. It was pretty good, we usually stay at Hiltons to get rewards points. Easy ride to the start, about 4 miles.
> 
> @a4avant - about the carbon clinchers and why anyone would want them. They are great wheels in certain types of terrain. Rolling hills and flats, I love them. Light, aero, strong and no gluing tires (I'm past that point in my life, unless someone wants to be my personal mechanic). However, I would not use carbon clinchers on a ride or race where I might have to do extended braking because of the heating concerns. I have raced them in big bunches on some courses with big descents and I have been very cautious on them in terms of dragging the brakes. Honestly I don't like having to think about it during a race so generally I shy away from using them if I know there will be long descents, or I might use the rear and use a light aluminum clincher front. IMO carbon clinchers are no different than super light alloy tubular wheels used for climbing back in the 80s and 90s, I would not run those wheels in all conditions either.


thanks for the analysis.
I used carbon clincher on the Death ride 2 years ago. no problem. FWIW, I weigh 110 pounds and my bike was 14pounds.
Also have carbon tubies but I flatted once on a century ride and don't want to go through that again.


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## RobWhittier

*Carbon/alloy*

Is it safe to assume that the carbon/aluminum hybrid rims are ok? e.g. Cosmic Carbone SL? What about all of these carbon rims with "treatment" like Reynolds and Easton (Thermtech) that claim 500 degree temp safe

I've never owned carbon rims before (Elan aero and Ksyrium SL) but this was going to be the year I made the investment in some money hoops.

Thanks!

Rob


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## ziscwg

deviousalex said:


> I have seen some Michelin Pro 3 Grip tires on Bonktown for $30 each. I wonder if I should buy two next time they come up in case it's wet.


The Vittoria Open Pave are also great in the wet. I ran them last year. Rain this year has been sparse, so I have yet to put them back on. 

They are pricey at $80 MSRP. I have seen them on ebay for $105 a pair though. I've also seen them on sale for $55 at times.


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## ericm979

CoLiKe20 said:


> I used carbon clincher on the Death ride 2 years ago. no problem.


That's not a valid comparison.

The Death Ride descents are for the most part wide open and require little braking if you have a reasonable amount of skill at descending.

The problem is not the speed of the descent, it is the amount of braking that is required. Slower descents are actually worse than fast ones. Steep and twisty means lots of braking and not as much air flow to remove heat from the rim. 

I've used carbon clinchers in the Everest Challenge which has descents that are even faster and longer than the Death Ride. But again, they're not that technical so not a lot of braking is required.


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## BunnV

ericm979 said:


> That's not a valid comparison.
> 
> The Death Ride descents are for the most part wide open and require little braking if you have a reasonable amount of skill at descending.
> 
> The problem is not the speed of the descent, it is the amount of braking that is required. Slower descents are actually worse than fast ones. Steep and twisty means lots of braking and not as much air flow to remove heat from the rim.
> 
> I've used carbon clinchers in the Everest Challenge which has descents that are even faster and longer than the Death Ride. But again, they're not that technical so not a lot of braking is required.


Exactly correct. I did the Death Ride. Every descent was flat out! If anyone has ridden Tuna Canyon (Malibu) from the top to PCH, they know THAT is a road where you don't want carbon clinchers! It's very steep and super technical almost all the way down (maybe 7 miles?) It's the only descent I've ridden where my brakes fade from use before I get to the bottom. You cant NOT brake, it's too steep and tight (and sometimes sandy) to rail like a wider road. I just got my first pair of carbon clinchers and I will NEVER ride them on that road!


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## sometimerider

RobWhittier said:


> Is it safe to assume that the carbon/aluminum hybrid rims are ok? e.g. Cosmic Carbone SL? What about all of these carbon rims with "treatment" like Reynolds and Easton (Thermtech) that claim 500 degree temp safe


I don't know about any special treatment, but take a minute to think about how rims are cooled. The action of the brake pad generates heat on the braking surface. The more rim area that heat is spread to, the faster it will dissipate in the air.

I suspect the hybrid rims with an aluminum brake track are poor at spreading the heat to anything beyond the braking surface. So the brake track gets much hotter than on an alloy rim. Is that temperature going to do something bad to the track? Is it going to cause the track to delaminate from the rim? I don't know, but I'm not going to test the issue.


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## BunnV

sometimerider said:


> I suspect the hybrid rims with an aluminum brake track are poor at spreading the heat to anything beyond the braking surface. So the brake track gets much hotter than on an alloy rim. Is that temperature going to do something bad to the track? Is it going to cause the track to delaminate from the rim? I don't know, but I'm not going to test the issue.


The hybrid wheels that I know about ARE alloy rims with a carbon "fairing" bonded on. The braking on these types of wheels is the same as a regular alloy rim without a carbon cover. 
Check out HED Jet wheels or Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL wheels.


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## ukbloke

BunnV said:


> The hybrid wheels that I know about ARE alloy rims with a carbon "fairing" bonded on. The braking on these types of wheels is the same as a regular alloy rim without a carbon cover.
> Check out HED Jet wheels or Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL wheels.


The Shimano alloy/carbon clinchers are different to that. The carbon is structural and the spokes attach to the carbon. The alloy rim tapers down and is then bonded to the carbon. I think that the left and right brake tracks are separate planar pieces of alloy. Shimano claim that they don't have the braking issues associated with all-carbon clinchers, though presumably the heat dissipation isn't quite as good a regular alloy rim. I wonder how much of the heat is spread through conduction and how much through convection direct to the air?


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## moschika

deviousalex said:


> After all that it makes me wonder why someone would stage a recreational group ride here.


because it's one of Levi's "training" routes. and who doesn't want to ride a route that is used by pros. there are tours following stages of the grand tours, etc. 

i'll echo everyone else about the roads. Sonoma County is usually voted as having the worst road conditions in the entire SF bay area. the riding is great, but it can beat you up. the descents along King Ridge (don't forget it's not all up, even though it feels like it) and especially down Meyers grade and Hwy 1 to Russian Gulch are steep, fast and twisty.


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## sethjs

I'm late to the party but...

Did the Gran route last year for the first time - on Zipp 303 tubulars. I wouldn't do that again - will be HED Belgium C2s this year.

Two issues:
1. I was constantly worried I'd flat and that the Stan's wouldn't take care of it - I didn't have a backup tubular on me.
2. On those descents people are talking about, in the wet, I was trying like hell to modulate braking so keep from overheating. It was incredibly tough to keep the rims cool enough to keep them from whistling (which they only do when they got very hot). 

My normal riding area is Tunitas, Kings Mtn, OLH, etc. Those descents are nothing like those on the Gran route. I'd never descended anything that challenging.


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## GreenLightGo

BunnV said:


> The hybrid wheels that I know about ARE alloy rims with a carbon "fairing" bonded on. The braking on these types of wheels is the same as a regular alloy rim without a carbon cover.
> Check out HED Jet wheels or Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL wheels.


Bingo. I have some Mavic Cosmic Carbone SLs, the spokes go through slots in the carbon fairing to the aluminum rim below. Spokes are adjusted using a Mavic tool for the nipples which runs through the bottom of the rim.


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## ukbloke

sethjs said:


> Did the Gran route last year for the first time - on Zipp 303 tubulars. I wouldn't do that again - will be HED Belgium C2s this year.


Great info - thanks for posting!


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## deviousalex

sethjs said:


> I'm late to the party but...
> 
> Did the Gran route last year for the first time - on Zipp 303 tubulars. I wouldn't do that again - will be HED Belgium C2s this year.
> 
> Two issues:
> 1. I was constantly worried I'd flat and that the Stan's wouldn't take care of it - I didn't have a backup tubular on me.
> 2. On those descents people are talking about, in the wet, I was trying like hell to modulate braking so keep from overheating. It was incredibly tough to keep the rims cool enough to keep them from whistling (which they only do when they got very hot).
> 
> My normal riding area is Tunitas, Kings Mtn, OLH, etc. Those descents are nothing like those on the Gran route. I'd never descended anything that challenging.


I thought that tubulars didn't have the same overheating issues associated with clinchers?
This route is pretty much stage 1 of the tour de CA this year, and you'd think those pros are all riding tubulars.


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## 180

deviousalex said:


> This route is pretty much stage 1 of the tour de CA this year, and you'd think those pros are all riding tubulars.


Maybe they could edit the rules to read that you have to have a personal support team present with you throughout the Fondo if you plan to ride tubulars  Or allow teams of tubular riders with support. But they won't.


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## Eric_H

deviousalex said:


> I thought that tubulars didn't have the same overheating issues associated with clinchers?
> This route is pretty much stage 1 of the tour de CA this year, and you'd think those pros are all riding tubulars.


You can overheat a tubular wheel as well. The fun begins when the glue softens and the tire rolls off the rim. It is not THAT common, but it is possible.

Look closer at stage 1 of the Tour of California. They do not ride on Kings Ridge Road at all.


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## deviousalex

Not to bring back a thread from the dead but long story short I rode this ride on my carbon clinchers (2011 Reynolds DV3K with cryo blue pads) and had no problems whatsoever. After that twisty descent to the cheese grater bridge I did not hear any howling as carbon wheels normally do when they heat up. I stopped afterwards and felt the rims. They were warm, but not really that hot.

Also, that Meyer's grade descent is not technical at all, no sharp turns or switch backs. Any decently competent descender should be able to handle it no problem.


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## ratpick

deviousalex said:


> Not to bring back a thread from the dead but long story short I rode this ride on my carbon clinchers (2011 Reynolds DV3K with cryo blue pads) and had no problems whatsoever. After that twisty descent to the cheese grater bridge I did not hear any howling as carbon wheels normally do when they heat up. I stopped afterwards and felt the rims. They were warm, but not really that hot.


I think it might have been a different story if it was wet at all.. we had perfect weather yesterday (no fog/rain on any of the major descents). I heard a lot of carbon wheels out there.



deviousalex said:


> Also, that Meyer's grade descent is not technical at all, no sharp turns or switch backs. Any decently competent descender should be able to handle it no problem.


There was very little to complain about with this ride; my one annoyance was the number of volunteers/marshalls by the road on all the descents flagging us to slow down. It was particularly annoying on Meyer's which, as you said, didn't need a lot of skill to descend at speed (I had no other riders around me at the time).

Awesome ride.. I figured I'd do it once and be done with it, like the Death Ride, but I can see myself coming back again!


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## deviousalex

ratpick said:


> There was very little to complain about with this ride; my one annoyance was the number of volunteers/marshalls by the road on all the descents flagging us to slow down. It was particularly annoying on Meyer's which, as you said, didn't need a lot of skill to descend at speed (I had no other riders around me at the time).


I didn't like how they had 'slow down' signs on every descent. It sorta like the boy the cried wolf. This way I didn't really know what WAS a technical descent. I think they should have put ratings on them. Same for the climbs.


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## PoorCyclist

I did hear a loud gun shot like bang in the woods after I pasted the hauser bridge followed by alot of sirens, anyone knew what happened as it sounded like someone had a blew out.

If you wanted to bomb the descents, you can always go out to monte rio and do a loop about 73 miles.. I think the staff was just looking out for the safety for the general population.
I was happy to not see not many riders doing questionable passes.


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## deviousalex

I saw an ambulance going for a guy that was off the road and police were helping him. This was right before a cattle guard. I think he saw it and freaked out and went off the side of the road. Those things were fine at speed as long as you hit them straight on.


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## Eric_H

Yeah, it was all a non-factor. I suspect some of the carbon clincher incidents have been in the past with wheels known to have problems (older Edge, Reynolds) plus inexperienced descenders plus group traffic. Agree, the marshals were a little over-zealous on the descents but at the same time after last year's horrific accidents I'm sure the organizers felt over-zealous was better than the alternative. Meyer's Grade is really not a difficult descent. After Hauser Bridge it is nothing in comparison.

My only complaint about the entire ride was the amount of vehicular traffic going the opposite direction on Coleman Valley Road. I know some of that traffic was official support, and a small percentage was local but A LOT of it was people driving out to see their husband/wife/kid/dad/mom do the climb. Between catching and passing a lot of the Medio riders here, plus the oncoming traffic, I felt this section was much more dangerous than it had to be. And there were many more cars than last year for sure.


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## bikesta

I saw a Bontrager carbon clincher rear wheel explode right in front of me on the Hauser Bridge decent. The rider was not able to use the rear brake and was forced to use the front brake. He then flipped over the handlebars; face planted and almost fell in to the ditch. Luckily he was not injured.

“Carbon clincher wheels are strongly discouraged because they can fail/explode under the extreme braking necessary on sections of this route.”


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## wjb

I also have DV3K's with the blue pads. I have been running them almost a year with no problems on many spirited decents in Sonoma County including Hauser Bridge and Meyers Grade. Every time I usually stop, reach down and check but never is it hot. Part of the issue is how you descend. I think if you really jam on the brakes you could really spike the temps up. Also I have the pads mounted as low on the braking surface as possible (towards the center of the wheel) away from the thinner edge for better heat dispersion. So I had no problems with them during the Fondo. That being said I can see why they would discourage them from a legal standpoint.


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## deviousalex

bikesta said:


> I saw a Bontrager carbon clincher rear wheel explode right in front of me on the Hauser Bridge decent. The rider was not able to use the rear brake and was forced to use the front brake. He then flipped over the handlebars; face planted and almost fell in to the ditch. Luckily he was not injured.


How beefy looking was this guy?


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## bikesta

deviousalex said:


> How beefy looking was this guy?


Taller/slender fella riding a grey Trek.


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## givethepigeye

I saw a LOT of carbon hoops on Sat. I stayed away from them on the down.


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## deviousalex

givethepigeye said:


> I saw a LOT of carbon hoops on Sat. I stayed away from them on the down.


That's good, I don't trust people behind me on the downhills anyways


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## norton55

My close friend, who is a volunteer with Timber Cove Fire, was saying that descent down to the Bailey bridge sounded like popcorn popping with all the carbon rims overheating and blowing tires.


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